Nice stuff. Darkoath shammy is ace. Warhound is awesome too, hell of a lot better than the current ones. Which, to be fair, are pretty ancient at this point. Flesh hounds are cool but given we've seen two plastic ones already some of the 'newness factor' is gone. Those fiends though...
Mymearan wrote: what's wrong with them? They look like flesh hounds usually do, and like the one in the first AoS starter. Don't seem very controversial to me.
Compare the muscle structure and definition on the Stormcast cavalry mounts to those new hounds and you'll see what's wrong.
Cinderspirit wrote: Would make sense to release Karanak along with the normal Hounds. Are there hints on the Slaanesh character? The Masque or something new?
It might be that oddly shaped thing with the curly staff/banner/harp in the middleground that's glowing purple.
Cinderspirit wrote: Would make sense to release Karanak along with the normal Hounds. Are there hints on the Slaanesh character? The Masque or something new?
I wouldn't be shocked to see Karanak in the Flesh Hounds box as an option.
The fiends and hounds look like they are on cavalry bases - larger and elongated instead of round. Which makes sense as they are both quite long model designs and clearly GW is going for them being a bigger creature than they were before - not sure on hounds but the fiends certainly look bigger and far more imposing.
Also based on the artwork and early photos I'm guessing the box contents will be something like
1 Herald of Slaanesh with Harp - could also be a purely named hero and not a herald since we've got Karnakr on the other side
1 set of 3 fiends
1 set of Deamonettes
possibly 1 set of mounted Deamonettes
1 Karnark!
1 set of 5 hounds
1 set of khorne mounted deamons
1 set of Khorne deamons
Overread wrote: The fiends and hounds look like they are on cavalry bases - larger and elongated instead of round. Which makes sense as they are both quite long model designs and clearly GW is going for them being a bigger creature than they were before - not sure on hounds but the fiends certainly look bigger and far more imposing.
Also based on the artwork and early photos I'm guessing the box contents will be something like
1 Herald of Slaanesh with Harp - could also be a purely named hero and not a herald since we've got Karnakr on the other side
1 set of 3 fiends
1 set of Deamonettes
possibly 1 set of mounted Deamonettes
1 Karnark!
1 set of 5 hounds
1 set of khorne mounted deamons
1 set of Khorne deamons
Aye I just don't know how much of the video itself is in the box as such and how much is just them showing off Slaanesh deamons. Then again as they've not teased any of the chariots it might well only be box content being shown off.
He seems almost juggernaut size. I'd be cool with that.
I wonder if the harp player in the back is the Slaaneshi character model.
In fluff Karanak was supposed to be this giant three headed dog that sit alongside Khorne's throne. His size on the tabletop was always very punny. He should be very big, yeah. At least as big as a Stormcast Dracoth.
I really dig my Skull Pass goblins (but I have a very, very soft spot for the giant-headed multipart ones as well, sadly I have none), so Moonclan Grotz is cool. Very cool. In fact I just removed the mould lines from the four basic gitz from the Nightvault band. It makes me eye those hilarious squig herders from the webstore. A full army of those would be a nice change from all the seriousness.
But all my goblins are probably what, 300 points? I know I should've gotten another skull pass set back in the day, then I could field enough for a Hinterlands band
But seriously, will GW move them away from 300+ strong hordes to like a hundred and a bunch of bigature centipede monsters? Giant or at least medium sized squigs?
GW is looking for feedack for the General's Handbook 2019. From Warhammer Community:
The first General’s Handbook came about, in part, thanks to feedback from the Warhammer Age of Sigmar community, and we’ve written each instalment since in that spirit, gathering feedback on matched play points from around the community to make sure the game is as balanced as possible.
We’ve now started work on the General’s Handbook 2019 – and we’d love to hear from you. We want your thoughts on matched play points – in particular, the units you think should cost more or less. We playtest Warhammer Age of Sigmar relentlessly and love our dedicated team, but the game system is huge, so your feedback is essential, as well as being highly likely to influence the final book. If you’re looking to take part, make sure to do so in the next two weeks – after that, we’ll be taking time to go through everything you’ve sent us.
To make sharing this feedback as simple as possible, we’ve created a dedicated post on Facebook designed to gather your thoughts. To provide your feedback, all you need to do is comment on that post with the unit (or units) you think need their points changed, then provide some reasons why. Examples and reasons why you think the points should change will help us a lot, so any extra detail you can provide will be handy – just keep it clear and concise, so we can read them all! We guarantee we’ll be following this post very closely over the next couple of weeks – if you’ve got feedback, this is the channel to give it on.
Cataphract wrote: Well well. If the “Warqueen” novella is anything to go by we can expect Chariots pulled by Giant War Dogs to be part of the Dark Oath Release.
I have to say that I really hope GW puts out a lot more Novellas and full novels like Warqueen. It's a perfect introduction and scene setter for a faction and I found it to be more character developing than some of the Stormcast heavy early books (which always had the feeling of being a touch too battle-heavy for their own good)
Surprised to have heard or seen nothing about the next upcoming battletome, how long is it usually between the teasers and when news starts to finally get leaked and come out?
GenRifDrake wrote: Surprised to have heard or seen nothing about the next upcoming battletome, how long is it usually between the teasers and when news starts to finally get leaked and come out?
I figure Moonclan is next year which is why they've only teased it and not revealed anything.
With Wrath and Rapture, Delaque and the new Necromunda Rule books; Adepticus Titanicus new Titan (well Warlord with new weapons); the Christmas boxed sets and Blackstone the GW release schedule is pretty much full until Christmas.
I'd wager we see Moonclan in January or February; then there's a resonable chance for a Slaanesh release after that (based on the last 3 years release patterns and on the fact that Wrath and Rapture is coming out and when GW did that in the past, the new codex/battletome wasn't far behind the boxed set with a faction getting upgraded models)
GenRifDrake wrote: Surprised to have heard or seen nothing about the next upcoming battletome, how long is it usually between the teasers and when news starts to finally get leaked and come out?
GenRifDrake wrote: Surprised to have heard or seen nothing about the next upcoming battletome, how long is it usually between the teasers and when news starts to finally get leaked and come out?
Sorry I wasn't clear, I meant any info on this new destruction battletome they teased, reason asking how long is it usually between the teaser and when news/rumours/leaks start showing? Grots/Moonclan seems most likely from the teaser, but wanna know if it will be a sort of Beastmen deal with nothing really new in terms of models etc, or if we might actually finally see Plastic Squigs etc..!
GenRifDrake wrote: Surprised to have heard or seen nothing about the next upcoming battletome, how long is it usually between the teasers and when news starts to finally get leaked and come out?
Sorry I wasn't clear, I meant any info on this new destruction battletome they teased, reason asking how long is it usually between the teaser and when news/rumours/leaks start showing? Grots/Moonclan seems most likely from the teaser, but wanna know if it will be a sort of Beastmen deal with nothing really new in terms of models etc, or if we might actually finally see Plastic Squigs etc..!
I did see a rumor that plastic Squigs are a Go, but bog standard infantry Gobbos will not be changed.
GenRifDrake wrote: Surprised to have heard or seen nothing about the next upcoming battletome, how long is it usually between the teasers and when news starts to finally get leaked and come out?
Sorry I wasn't clear, I meant any info on this new destruction battletome they teased, reason asking how long is it usually between the teaser and when news/rumours/leaks start showing? Grots/Moonclan seems most likely from the teaser, but wanna know if it will be a sort of Beastmen deal with nothing really new in terms of models etc, or if we might actually finally see Plastic Squigs etc..!
People occasionally comment that GW doesn't tease things further out than 3 months (unless a leak forces their hand). I don't recall any recent release that contradicts this, so I guess we should see the goblin release no later than the end of January or start of February.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: We haven't heard a whole lot about Wrath and Rapture since it got announced either.
Maybe once Blackstone Fortress is out in the wild it'll be the next big talking point?
Might be. We'll get the Vigilus Weekender for 40k on the 24th so there's no doubt really that they'll continue to focus on 40k previews for now. Wrath and Rupture has a good chance of making an appearance there because it's for both games and has been teased before. I wouldn't expect them to show it so early just to let something else take the spotlight.
I think the teased custodes hard for a very long time before they got released, IIRC. I think necormunda haf some stuff out longer than three months, too.
I didn't think the Captain-General was revealed long before the February release of Custodes, but i't's been to long ago to remember. I wouldn't drag Forgeworld into this, though. They communicate separately from GW.
Carlovonsexron wrote: I think the teased custodes hard for a very long time before they got released, IIRC. I think necormunda haf some stuff out longer than three months, too.
Custodes were announced in a January event I think, and they were a Feb release. Valoris was longer, but I don’t think it was 3 months still and he was shown because the Facebook page reached a certain number of likes.
Carlovonsexron wrote: I think the teased custodes hard for a very long time before they got released, IIRC. I think necormunda haf some stuff out longer than three months, too.
Custodes were announced in a January event I think, and they were a Feb release. Valoris was longer, but I don’t think it was 3 months still and he was shown because the Facebook page reached a certain number of likes.
Ahh, I should have been more clear in that I meant previewed by the weekly mystery preview pic, not full roll out
There aren't many weeks left in 2018. There is still the battleforces, chapter approved and a bunch of specialist games stuff to come this year. I think Wrath and Rapture will be the first big release next year. Moonclan will come after that in late January or February.
For the last couple of years GW has done a new year open day. Next year's is on January 5th. I think that is when we will next hear about Moonclan.
Chikout wrote: There aren't many weeks left in 2018. There is still the battleforces, chapter approved and a bunch of specialist games stuff to come this year. I think Wrath and Rapture will be the first big release next year. Moonclan will come after that in late January or February.
For the last couple of years GW has done a new year open day. Next year's is on January 5th. I think that is when we will next hear about Moonclan.
This seems pretty reasonable. Has GW released a new Army in December before? It feels like they may have at some point, maybe the first Thousand Sons release in 7th, but other than that I don't really remember.
So after the pictures of Wrath and Rapture Karanak makes an appearance here. Any chance the box might yet get released this year or is GW already turning its gaze twoards next year? Anyone following how close to release the Hammerhal Herald and Regimental Standard post their teasers?
There's no pattern with Hammerhal nor Regimental Standard at all. Some stuff is purely fan-service; others is tied into recent releases or near releases and other stuff is months off. Some stuff is clearly not linked to anything, but in the fullness of time does show something that later appears.
So really it leaves us none the wiser. I still think Wrath and Rapture is a preChristmas release because of how much they showed at the last event; it just felt like too much to show off if they were going to leave it until after Christmas. I think if it was coming later they'd have either kept quiet, shown only the Fiends (which were early spoilt by a leak) or done like they did with Moonclan
Overread wrote: There's no pattern with Hammerhal nor Regimental Standard at all. Some stuff is purely fan-service; others is tied into recent releases or near releases and other stuff is months off. Some stuff is clearly not linked to anything, but in the fullness of time does show something that later appears.
So really it leaves us none the wiser. I still think Wrath and Rapture is a preChristmas release because of how much they showed at the last event; it just felt like too much to show off if they were going to leave it until after Christmas. I think if it was coming later they'd have either kept quiet, shown only the Fiends (which were early spoilt by a leak) or done like they did with Moonclan
I agree, I think it’s this year. I think it was heavily hinted to be this year when it was first announced, in Facebook comments or a Q&A at the event or something.
None of the Art in that post is new. Its hard to say what the new Keeper of Secrets will look like. The last time we saw concept work from John Blanche on the was in 2012 when they released the Seeker models. Brian Nelson designed and sculpted all the new Slaanesh Plastic models though. We don't know who worked on the new Fiends yet, but given how close it is in design to the seeker mounts and Daemonettes. I wouldn't expect the KOS to be really divergent. I honestly expect something like a scaled up Daemonette with a bunch or head, weapon, and arm options. Maybe and alternate torso front for some extra variation. I doubt it'll be a beefy Minotaur since that doesn't match the current aesthetic; and would be to similar to the Thirster.
Awwww I was going to hope for the 'people tree' in the foreground as a bit of Slanesh terrain to go with my evil Nurgle tree
I'd take a people pillar if it was done it that style. Then again, I'd also take revamped Daemonettes in that style.
And now that I expressed my wishes, you can bet there's no way it's going to happen.
You're welcome.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cinderspirit wrote: With this new Community post my guess would be Wrath and Rapture pre Order this weekend. Fleshed out Slaanesh/Chaos release early 2019.
The week after, perhaps. GW has already announced what goes up for pre-order this weekend:
The harp player is one of the coolest Daemon miniatures of the last years imo.
The new Greater Daemons are really cool, but other stuff like the Bilepiper, the scribe, Hotriculuous, etc. were pretty weak.
It also made me check, I've got near 1K points (AoS) of Khorne stuff unassembled - makes me tempted to throw it all together for a fun list with some additional hounds and Karnark leading the way!
lord_blackfang wrote: I have 2 original AoS starters stashed away somewhere from way back when. Can anyone say if that plus Wrath&Rapture makes a decent Khorne army?
Totally usable. Khorne is...not super competitive in general, but you'll have all you need for several battalions. You'll be lacking some punch, you'd probably want to add more Bloodletters to fill that gap.
GW also put all the Aelves together. Honestly I wouldn't read into it much. I did think it might hint at things to come, but looking at it more closely it seems that its quite rough listing. Eg Skaven gotall put together even though one group has a Battletome.
I think its just GW tidying up their listings a little on the rough side. Not a bad idea as it has at least got rid of a lot of those one or two model "factions" that otherwise were pretty useless on their own.
It's made AoS on their site look a lot cleaner and I'd wager as they add more Battletomes they'll split armies out of those collective groups
Not sure if I'll pick up this new box. I don't like the current plastic Bloodletters (much prefer the giant axe-wielding previous versions), and I have tons of Diaz Daemonettes/Seekers so I want none of the current plastic drek. And I don't need any more Blood Crushers.
Depending on whether Bits & Kits breaks up the box I'll probably get 1 Harp Lady, 1 Kanarak, 6 Fiends and 15 Flesh Hounds.
lord_blackfang wrote: I have 2 original AoS starters stashed away somewhere from way back when. Can anyone say if that plus Wrath&Rapture makes a decent Khorne army?
Yup. Just pick up a couple slaughterpriests so you can run the gore pilgrims battalion. The daemons you can save for summoning in during the game, flesh hounds are particularly good for that.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Not sure if I'll pick up this new box. I don't like the current plastic Bloodletters (much prefer the giant axe-wielding previous versions), and I have tons of Diaz Daemonettes/Seekers so I want none of the current plastic drek. And I don't need any more Blood Crushers.
Depending on whether Bits & Kits breaks up the box I'll probably get 1 Harp Lady, 1 Kanarak, 6 Fiends and 15 Flesh Hounds.
Sweet! Glad to see they got a buff to match the new models. I wish the Beast of Nurgle got the same thing, but I am happy for Slaanesh players regardless. That herald seems like a great support hero too.
I don't like the heada on the fiends. Maybe a few "gimp" heads from the Chaos Cultists or the AdMech heads with goggles but no hoods? Or Melusai snake heads.
Hint for Ogres or Flesheater courts? Some kind of festive event? Or just a bit of random fun?
Throwback to old fluff blending with new.
There used to be cults within the Empire, one of which was Khornate in alignment and basically consisted of the Meat Purveyor's Guild. They engaged in a bit of light cannibalism and bloodlust.
Then the Bloodreavers we've got with the new Khorne stuff? They're cannibals.
Hint for Ogres or Flesheater courts? Some kind of festive event? Or just a bit of random fun?
Rumor is that some of the older battletomes would be getting re-releases this year. Maybe in the case of FEC that's pointing toward?
Hammerherald is random in what it shows. I'd never read into it, its just a bit of fun. The feast might mean a fresh battletome or its just a play on it being Christmas soon - a time of good feasting.
Hint for Ogres or Flesheater courts? Some kind of festive event? Or just a bit of random fun?
Rumor is that some of the older battletomes would be getting re-releases this year. Maybe in the case of FEC that's pointing toward?
Hammerherald is random in what it shows. I'd never read into it, its just a bit of fun. The feast might mean a fresh battletome or its just a play on it being Christmas soon - a time of good feasting.
Bloodletters now cause mortal wound only on an unmodified 6 (so no stacking prayers), but it is in addition to normal damage.
Bloodcrusher's impact hit is now on a 2+.
Karanak has 6 head attacks.
The Gorehound pack leader has a shooting attack.
Daemonettes have changed from 6+ to hit generating an extra attack (or 5+ for 20 or more models).
Now it's 6+ (or 5+ for 20 or more models) and it causes 2 hits with no need to roll to hit with the extra attack.
Good change on the bloodletters if true IMO, the prayer stacking was lame. Now their points can be dropped a little without them being OP from that combo. Daemonette change is really nice from a practical point and also a solid buff.
Bloodletters now cause mortal wound only on an unmodified 6 (so no stacking prayers), but it is in addition to normal damage.
Bloodcrusher's impact hit is now on a 2+.
Karanak has 6 head attacks.
The Gorehound pack leader has a shooting attack.
Daemonettes have changed from 6+ to hit generating an extra attack (or 5+ for 20 or more models).
Now it's 6+ (or 5+ for 20 or more models) and it causes 2 hits with no need to roll to hit with the extra attack.
Not a leak.
All that info comes directly from the warhammer TV live stream. They also said total khorne points are 500 and total Slaanesh points are 520 not counting battalions.
is it intentional that we aren't able to check the new slaanesh character in 360 or in a focused picture of it? ... found it weird no article had a better screenshot showing all the details of the new model.
Weird that there's no 360 of the new Harp Lady. And man those old-skool sprues are painful to look at. So much empty space!
Amazing how far things have progressed in the years since those have made. Even the Blood Crushers are a marked improvement over the Slaaneshi older Slaaneshi kits.
The Flesh Hounds are about as unadorned and simplistic as I was expecting them to be, and whilst it may seem to be a symptom of GW's recent trend to creating option-less kits, 'hound' kits have always been quite sparse in their posing and options (Dire Wolves and Chaos Hounds aren't the most complex models). The fact that Khorne's Hounds are no more complicated than those kits comes as no surprise, and is quite welcome IMO.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Weird that there's no 360 of the new Harp Lady. And man those old-skool sprues are painful to look at. So much empty space!
Amazing how far things have progressed in the years since those have made. Even the Blood Crushers are a marked improvement over the Slaaneshi older Slaaneshi kits.
The Flesh Hounds are about as unadorned and simplistic as I was expecting them to be, and whilst it may seem to be a symptom of GW's recent trend to creating option-less kits, 'hound' kits have always been quite sparse in their posing and options (Dire Wolves and Chaos Hounds aren't the most complex models). The fact that Khorne's Hounds are no more complicated than those kits comes as no surprise, and is quite welcome IMO.
It is clear they have covered a long way in term of sprue development and casting technologies.
On the other hand, this (absolutely) no option thing is getting on me:
the latest cart galore for the orks for example, whitout any option whatsoever for these kits
kept me from buying any, short of a scrapjet.
But these fiend sprues are pure beauties, I truely hope they will get their own box in the
(not so far) future.
Some more recent kits have had options, others have not. There is a decent average overll but it tends to be clustered into certain armies. That said daemons have never had customizable troops at all; not their thing.
Overread wrote: *possible reality mode*
Someone at GW lost the studio model and now they've been running around trying to paint up another!
Replace 'lost' with 'dropped and broke' and I'd find it more believable...
Poor little demon harpist. At least she can hang out with the dwarf character kit in the afterlife.
All the new models shown are better than expected from the stills. Karanak looked a bit lanky in the pic they showed before, like he was on the same diet as Arbaal's old mount. The paintjob on Karanak is also really, really good, IMO. The Eavy Metal style works when you have a lot of creases and pimples to edge highlight instead of overly edge highlighting muscles. The puppy in the 360° has a gap in his head, though, someone forget to gap fill I thought they paint resin masters or 3d test prints, both of those shouldn't have those heads-come-in-halves gaps?
GW Manager "How the heck are we going to promote and sell this kit when it goes on presale a week before christmas and won't be on sale until about a day or two before? People just won't get it"
GW Staffer "I know lets not show something in the box"
GW Manager "What?"
GW Staffer "Yeah, lets take the harpist out and just not show it at all. Like put it in a background picture and yeah keep it right on the box, but don't show it in the web 360 or anything."
GW Manager "I don't get it?"
GW Staffer "It creates a mystery! Like we made it but don't want to show it. The fans will go NUTS over it! Seriously the FB page will explode, fan sites will chatter and it will create a huge amount of panicked hype all on its own"
Didn't notice any major changes but also haven't read through all the commentary yet. Anyone notice anything major?
Also thank you GW for adding a shield option of Wild Riders, I'm sure Wanderer players will be happy with that and I'm glad it was not made a flat upgrade (like some shield 'options') but rather a trade off. Good job.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Didn't notice any major changes but also haven't read through all the commentary yet. Anyone notice anything major?
Some moderate complaining on the Fyreslayer page, but I think Lords of the Lodge was overlooked when they took away the other abilities in other armies that had an impact on turn order. I believe they adjusted it once before though, but took another look at it to make it more consistent. I think most folks weren't expecting a nerf because of how lackluster FS are in AoS 2. One can hope that a revived Battletome is coming soon.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Also thank you GW for adding a shield option of Wild Riders, I'm sure Wanderer players will be happy with that and I'm glad it was not made a flat upgrade (like some shield 'options') but rather a trade off. Good job.
I'd like to see more of that, personally. I'd have to peruse the warscrolls, but is it a new thing to have a tradeoff? I couldn't think of any comparisons off the top of my head when I first read the change this morning and have been somewhat busy at work.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Didn't notice any major changes but also haven't read through all the commentary yet. Anyone notice anything major?
Also thank you GW for adding a shield option of Wild Riders, I'm sure Wanderer players will be happy with that and I'm glad it was not made a flat upgrade (like some shield 'options') but rather a trade off. Good job.
Most Wanderers players I've seen are just bitching about it--I think people need to remember that they are still 10" movement with the shields and with the ability to Run and Charge.
I do think the shields could be slightly better than just "reroll save rolls of 1", but it's a good start for what is effectively an errata for something their silly selves forgot was a damn option. I've been emailing that question in every time they ask for submissions.
Astrolith Bearer is now a 12" bubble of wholly within, and no longer needs planting. Yay for rerolls.
Basically every Seraphon player playing one is now more mobile than before. So... All of them.
GW has struggled with the idea of marketing. They think that if they tell you about the cool army coming out in 3 weeks, you won't buy that Landraider you were thinking about buying. I have pointed out to them several times that there is an opposite theory called "buyer's remorse", the idea that if you don't tell your customers about new products coming out, and they buy that Landraider, then they will be mad and reluctant to buy future products. It is because they stick to not letting anyone know about what is coming out beyond a week out that the Voxcast and Stormcast podcasts are irrelevant. Save the artist's perspective for White Dwarf. I'm not spending an hour and a half listening to Jervis wax poetic about his early days at GW, it's an hour and a half of my life I can never get back! Unless they can start at least teasing about future releases they should just spend their time playtesting.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Didn't notice any major changes but also haven't read through all the commentary yet. Anyone notice anything major?
Some moderate complaining on the Fyreslayer page, but I think Lords of the Lodge was overlooked when they took away the other abilities in other armies that had an impact on turn order. I believe they adjusted it once before though, but took another look at it to make it more consistent. I think most folks weren't expecting a nerf because of how lackluster FS are in AoS 2. One can hope that a revived Battletome is coming soon.
Heh, I remember reading that and chuckling. 'On a 2+ you are forced to take the first turn' amused me; GW still does not understand that 2nd turn is better the majority of the time.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Also thank you GW for adding a shield option of Wild Riders, I'm sure Wanderer players will be happy with that and I'm glad it was not made a flat upgrade (like some shield 'options') but rather a trade off. Good job.
I'd like to see more of that, personally. I'd have to peruse the warscrolls, but is it a new thing to have a tradeoff? I couldn't think of any comparisons off the top of my head when I first read the change this morning and have been somewhat busy at work.
Many shielded units have it as included in a weapon option; Grave Guard, for example, can take great weapons (better attack profile) or hand weapon & shield (extra defensive ability). These units may have balance issues between the options but the principle is there that one is not a straight upgrade over the other. However there are a not-insignificant number of units where shields (other things too, but usually it is shields) ARE a straight upgrade that does not affect the weapon the model can carry and simply gives an extra benefit for no downside at all. It is a false choice in that one is paying the points for that whether they have it or not. Another area that is bad about this is 5-wound characters with a horse option where the horse gives higher movement (and a couple extra hoof attacks on the side) but has no downside, thus punishing players who take the foot option since they still pay points for the horse.
AegisGrimm wrote: No-cost mount upgrades? Game, balance, Gw hardly knew ye.
That's been a thing since GHB1, though? Mounted heroes generally also have the issue of being more targettable, since they take about twice the height.
That's honestly my biggest complaint about AoS. That issue could have easily been fixed, but GW seems bound and determined to have a single cost for each warscroll. I was hoping they would add some modularity with 2E, but no. It probably would have been a lot of work to update every warscroll and battletome with points costs for gear, but I think it would have been well worth it for the overall balance of the game.
EnTyme wrote: That's honestly my biggest complaint about AoS. That issue could have easily been fixed, but GW seems bound and determined to have a single cost for each warscroll. I was hoping they would add some modularity with 2E, but no. It probably would have been a lot of work to update every warscroll and battletome with points costs for gear, but I think it would have been well worth it for the overall balance of the game.
To be honest, I'm not bothered by it. Most of the mounted stuff is legacy for the time being--and even then, some of the legacy stuff never made the cut. I've got a Wood Elf Glade Lord on Great Stag and one on a Horse but no rules.
Can you imagine if the put the cost of transports into squad members in 40K?
What if Tac Marines cost 20 points each (13 + 70/10 for the Rhino). Would that be in any way fair?
I don't see how anyone can justify including the price of mounts in a character's cost even when they don't take the mount. That's like... the opposite of game design. That's intentionally breaking something.
It seemed the same to me, or at least how I played it. What was the change? Specifically referring to bases and not models?
Previously, a MODEL was 'wholly within' if its entire base was within range, and a UNIT was wholly within if at least part of every model's base was within range. Now, the entirety of EVERY base must be within range.
I for sure miss the point system of old... Everything with a value, (fair or not, granted, but a value indeed).
Creating a list, point based was one of my favorite part of the hobby back then.
Now it is mostly modelling, so who am I to discuss rules anyway?
Wouldn't the black coach thing be because there are two existing models with completely different dimensions, so we're given two different waescrolls? Is there a difference in the warscrolls? Not able to look atm.
The warscrolls are totally different. However there is still nothing preventing one from converting the new coach into an old one--leave off the spirits, cut off the front two horses, and be sure to give the driver the scythe. Then put it on the correct base, done.
A better question is if it's worth spending three digits on a 120 point model...
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H.B.M.C. wrote: Can you imagine if the put the cost of transports into squad members in 40K?
What if Tac Marines cost 20 points each (13 + 70/10 for the Rhino). Would that be in any way fair?
I don't see how anyone can justify including the price of mounts in a character's cost even when they don't take the mount. That's like... the opposite of game design. That's intentionally breaking something.
Take 40k and remove points entirely. Do everything off power levels. That is how AoS points work.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Can you imagine if the put the cost of transports into squad members in 40K?
What if Tac Marines cost 20 points each (13 + 70/10 for the Rhino). Would that be in any way fair?
I don't see how anyone can justify including the price of mounts in a character's cost even when they don't take the mount. That's like... the opposite of game design. That's intentionally breaking something.
Do marines come with the rhino in the same box?
No?
Well, there you go, they cannot be in the same unit cost.
A handful of old heroes have this because their kit comes with that build like the warboss and freeguild general, the vampire lord and... that's about it. Now, being on a steed makes you bigger, so it's easier to draw LOS and shoot him.
I don't see how that's relevant. Moreover, sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, depending on what box you buy.
Lord Kragan wrote: A handful of old heroes have this because their kit comes with that build like the warboss and freeguild general, the vampire lord and... that's about it. Now, being on a steed makes you bigger, so it's easier to draw LOS and shoot him.
Your reasoning is highly flawed.
You pay for what something is worth. If the mount is seen to be something that increases the cost, then why would you pay for it when you don't have it? And if there are disadvantages to having a mount as you describe, then why does it cost anything at all, given you are saying it's a trade-off?
Ultimately, everything should have a cost that reflects its value. Baking in the costs of potential upgrades is bad game design.
H.B.M.C. wrote: They're saying that the Black Coach in one army isn't the same as the Black Coach in another?
They made an unfortunate decision to give two different units (with different rules and different sculpts) the same name. All the rest of the nonsense flows from that.
Lord Kragan wrote: A handful of old heroes have this because their kit comes with that build like the warboss and freeguild general, the vampire lord and... that's about it. Now, being on a steed makes you bigger, so it's easier to draw LOS and shoot him.
Your reasoning is highly flawed.
You pay for what something is worth. If the mount is seen to be something that increases the cost, then why would you pay for it when you don't have it? And if there are disadvantages to having a mount as you describe, then why does it cost anything at all, given you are saying it's a trade-off?
Ultimately, everything should have a cost that reflects its value. Baking in the costs of potential upgrades is bad game design.
Isn't your point that they DON'T cost and ergo since he says you can draw more easily LOS to it it's tradeoff and thus you pay for the benefits from mount by the LOS issues?
Another thing of course if that's enough of a cost difference. Then again in 40k since you are comparing to them the mount options are underpriced anyway. Bike, jump pack. If you have option you want to use them over walking
It seemed the same to me, or at least how I played it. What was the change? Specifically referring to bases and not models?
Previously, a MODEL was 'wholly within' if its entire base was within range, and a UNIT was wholly within if at least part of every model's base was within range. Now, the entirety of EVERY base must be within range.
Ahhh, gotcha. The current ruling is how I have always played it...so no big change for me. Thanks for the clarification though.
H.B.M.C. wrote: They're saying that the Black Coach in one army isn't the same as the Black Coach in another?
They made an unfortunate decision to give two different units (with different rules and different sculpts) the same name. All the rest of the nonsense flows from that.
TBF one warscroll is the "Legion Black Coach" while the other is just "Black Coach" so the units do not strictly have the same name. Buuut they are still the same thing in spirit if not technically.
H.B.M.C. wrote: They're saying that the Black Coach in one army isn't the same as the Black Coach in another?
They made an unfortunate decision to give two different units (with different rules and different sculpts) the same name. All the rest of the nonsense flows from that.
TBF one warscroll is the "Legion Black Coach" while the other is just "Black Coach" so the units do not strictly have the same name. Buuut they are still the same thing in spirit if not technically.
They have vastly different warscrolls, with different rules and different points costs. The Legion Black Coach is objectively inferior.
H.B.M.C. wrote: They're saying that the Black Coach in one army isn't the same as the Black Coach in another?
They made an unfortunate decision to give two different units (with different rules and different sculpts) the same name. All the rest of the nonsense flows from that.
TBF one warscroll is the "Legion Black Coach" while the other is just "Black Coach" so the units do not strictly have the same name. Buuut they are still the same thing in spirit if not technically.
They have vastly different warscrolls, with different rules and different points costs. The Legion Black Coach is objectively inferior.
Think the issue is more of not being able to use same model. Yeah maybe legion black coach is inferior. Why can't the other model be used to represent the other? Is the other model even on sale anymore? I can find only one black coach model on sale anyway. And base size is identical on base size chart...
Finally, the Moonclan worship Gorkamorka as the Bad Moon, a colossal celestial entity which spreads madness and mayhem wherever it goes. Reports that the Bad Moon is rising in the Mortal Realms are, of course, nought but rumours – such a thing could only exist in the fevered imagination of a grot…
H.B.M.C. wrote: They're saying that the Black Coach in one army isn't the same as the Black Coach in another?
They made an unfortunate decision to give two different units (with different rules and different sculpts) the same name. All the rest of the nonsense flows from that.
TBF one warscroll is the "Legion Black Coach" while the other is just "Black Coach" so the units do not strictly have the same name. Buuut they are still the same thing in spirit if not technically.
They have vastly different warscrolls, with different rules and different points costs. The Legion Black Coach is objectively inferior.
What's funny is that 120 point model has a combo which lets it kill anything in one combat phase
Finally, the Moonclan worship Gorkamorka as the Bad Moon, a colossal celestial entity which spreads madness and mayhem wherever it goes. Reports that the Bad Moon is rising in the Mortal Realms are, of course, nought but rumours – such a thing could only exist in the fevered imagination of a grot…
…right?
The real takeaway here is Battletome: Firebellies confirmed.
Finally, the Moonclan worship Gorkamorka as the Bad Moon, a colossal celestial entity which spreads madness and mayhem wherever it goes. Reports that the Bad Moon is rising in the Mortal Realms are, of course, nought but rumours – such a thing could only exist in the fevered imagination of a grot…
Next week is Christmas week - I'd honestly not expect anything what so ever from GW nor any other company product wise. We might get some community webpage posts and the like, but nothing new in production.
I thought about that but then remembered that even the core rules are 14 pages long I think? Most of the page count comes from point costs, allegiance, etc. And I would be extremely happy to see new skirmish rules even with no balance mechanism whatsoever because the current one is utterly broken anyways.
I say just ditch the White Dwarf skirmish content, and just release a paperback replacement for Skirmish that's just an expanded version of Hinterlands, maybe with more skill variety that units can gain as advances, and a giant points (gold coins cost) list as the last few pages for all the suitable units.
The problem for me with skirmish, though, is that it's spread across a whole bunch of documents at the moment, and a White Dwarf article is just one more thing. As a somewhat-unlearned guy who is looking to get into AoS for the first time through Skirmish, it seems I'll need:
-Main rules either as a download or in a Rulebook
-A collection of Warscrolls for the warband you want to play
-The Skirmish rules expansion
-Forgotten Heroes, a fanmade compilation from the Grand Alliance forums that gives you the reknown costs for the units not included in Skirmish, or have come out since the Skirmish book
-Other stuff I'm probably missing from various battletomes
-New Content from White Dwarf
NinthMusketeer wrote: I imagine the white dwarf rules will be a prelude to a proper release. They won't skip out on selling a book for it, don't worry!
Honestly I'd expect the new skirmish rules to be in the next General's Handbook if they're compact enough to be in White Dwarf to begin with.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I imagine the white dwarf rules will be a prelude to a proper release. They won't skip out on selling a book for it, don't worry!
Honestly I'd expect the new skirmish rules to be in the next General's Handbook if they're compact enough to be in White Dwarf to begin with.
Well in that case they'd probably have an easier time combining them with the existing skirmish rules (and hopefully a wider array of unit selections) into an updated Skirmish book.
I hope the Night (and Forest?) Gobbos retain a more sinister feel. Things like the cave troll for Shadespire and the guy from Portents are too cartoonish, at least for me. I don't want too many models with rampant fungal growths. Too much Flanderization and you might as well have actual fungus people cultists in the first place.
Well the whole point of specialized factions is to take the unique quirks of a handful of units and take it to 11. Nighthaunt, DoK, Ironjawz, Sylvaneth are all like that. The more generic factions can be made using the existing, more generic model line. Like Beasts or Legions. So if the goal is to take Night Goblins, Fanatics, Squig Herds, Squig Hoppers, and Mangler Squigs and turn it into an army...
And they did a great job on all of those armies. You can make a crazy gobbo army without it being a busy mess like that shaman. I'm still hopeful. Like I said the Shadespire gang was great.
I personally prefer the designs of the faces of the new gretchins from ork vehicles, the shaman face, or the goblin team faces from BB, that the current faces of the basic night goblins, and unfortunately those of shadespire (minus the leader) still have it.
I hope that heroes and new units, change the design a bit.
Since they took out all three classes of grots from gw's aos tab, will that mean trolls are back to their ranks; and said that, stone trolls changing names to either of the two new names, or brand new trolls entirely?
aracersss wrote: Since they took out all three classes of grots from gw's aos tab, will that mean trolls are back to their ranks; and said that, stone trolls changing names to either of the two new names, or brand new trolls entirely?
River trolls went to fellwater, stone trolls went to rockgut, and regular trolls went to sourbreath. So going from the names the fungiod troggoths are new and presumably a dual-build with generic trolls.
Always keen to see new terrain. Could be good for converting Necromunda fungus farms...
Mighty fine point and well made!
I’m pretty keen on Gobbos at the best of time, because diddy wee psychopaths just appeal. And if they come with fungus odds and ends as sprue extras? All the better for my own little corner of the Underhive!
Dunno. ETB appears limited to the forces in the current boxed sets?
Posing options have been on the decline. Honestly you could just make up a random table of easy to build, monopose and multipose, roll a die and see what happens. That's as likely to get the the correct answer as trying to figure out GW's actual approach.
That said, for trolls my guess is they'll be pretty limited because they're organic, but not easy to build. Hopefully it'll be a dual kit with a naked and a shroomed up version. Not the least because I'd like to have plain old common trolls in plastic along with a hefty helping of leftover mushrooms for other models (conversions, base decoration and the like).
-Main rules either as a download or in a Rulebook
-A collection of Warscrolls for the warband you want to play
-The Skirmish rules expansion
-Forgotten Heroes, a fanmade compilation from the Grand Alliance forums that gives you the reknown costs for the units not included in Skirmish, or have come out since the Skirmish book
-Other stuff I'm probably missing from various battletomes
-New Content from White Dwarf
My plan for Forgotten Heroes is to write it up as a single document that will have everything you need for skirmish aside from Battle Tomes and War Scrolls. I put it on hiatus because I was waiting to see what was up in the new White Dwarf and i know there is a full blown skirmish ruleset on the way. We’ll see what happens, but from what I heard, White Dwarf doesn’t update much aside from scenarios.
Sweet! That'll be a sure download for me. I was already thinking that if I get into Skirmish, I'd be printing out the current Forgotten Heroes, Main Rules, cutting the binding on a Skirmish book and potential White Dwarf content, and just putting them all in sheet protectors in a 3 ring binder so they are all collected together.
Hopefully the Sourbreath trolls are more mundane so they'll look cool next to normal Orcs and Goblins.
Somewhat intrigued. Not terribly impressed by the armor on the cover art gobbo, and somewhat leary of excessive fungus, but I do love me some goblins and trolls.
Voss wrote: Somewhat intrigued. Not terribly impressed by the armor on the cover art gobbo, and somewhat leary of excessive fungus, but I do love me some goblins and trolls.
Whilst I've no interest in Grots (and am jealous of them getting 4 endless spells) this looks to be a fantastic release! I'm also getting the feeling that GW has split the army internally so that you can likely build a fully functioning spiderfang grot army with minimal mushroom elements and vis versa. A very flexible way to have one united larger army that can take what it wants from either half without alliance limitations; but also stand on its own.
Great release and even more models to come - colour me jealous that they are getting so much, but at the same time colour me impressed (And destruction has needed some much needed love as of late).
If you read the article, they said "Well, we’ve got even more good news – this isn’t even close to all the new models. Keep an eye out in the new year for more reveals, and check back tomorrow for some insights from the miniatures designers themselves."
rollawaythestone wrote: If you read the article, they said "Well, we’ve got even more good news – this isn’t even close to all the new models. Keep an eye out in the new year for more reveals, and check back tomorrow for some insights from the miniatures designers themselves."
So will likely be some more.
I just watched the video on the email.
Came here to comment. Saw pictures and thought guess that’s it.
Then went and sat to read it.
And saw that
So probably will be just those we have rumored.
I feel like I may accidentally buy and build all this instead of my current projects..
Knight wrote: I am enthusiastic. Projects like these show much promise for future releases. Once the angelic elves get their turn... just marvelous.
I need GW to hold off on Angelic/Demonic Aelves at least until mid 2019. Because I know I'm going to likely weaken for at least one of those forces and I really want to actually finish most of my DoK buying/building before that moment comes.
SKR.HH wrote: Right at the beginning at about 4 sec in the video there is clearly a troll in the background... Can anybody tell whether this is an existing model?
Looks new. Doesn't match the old BFSP Stone Troll I have, nor the old metal ones I can find WDs with.
SKR.HH wrote: Right at the beginning at about 4 sec in the video there is clearly a troll in the background... Can anybody tell whether this is an existing model?
Looks new. Doesn't match the old BFSP Stone Troll I have, nor the old metal ones I can find WDs with.
Definitely looks new. It's too tall and bulky to match any of the old Stone Trolls, but its painted in the blue/white they use for Stone Trolls these days.
Binabik15 wrote: The community site says that the squigs and squig riders are single kit. I'm not sure I believe that, but holy moly are they awesome.
It doesn't really say so explicitly, just uses kit and set singular.
But there aren't ANY pieces in common as far as I can tell. Not teeth, not eyes, nor feet or mushrooms.
Maybe it's a big single kit that makes 10 hoppers, 10 squigs and 2 handlers, that actually seems more likely than a dual kit with no overlap at all. (and there are more pieces as well, the video has a handler with cymbals)
But most likely it should say kits and sets, one of hoppers, the other of 'cave squigs'
Danny76 wrote: I don’t play AoS.
I had Fantasy, never did goblins but painted a few up.
These.
These make me want to buy them all.
Love them
I love how we see a similar comment with every new army revealed. It tells me GW is doing something right in the design department.
Yeah. I’ve constantly kept up with AoS. Seen plenty that’s nice, and lots of people saying it as each faction comes.
But this is the one that gets me excited!
Not that fussed about the new Fanatics(they're nice enough, but I have the prior plastic kit and don't need more) or the Loonking(it would make a passable WHFB Lord with some tweaks to tone it down a smidge), but 'dem Squigs tho
Honestly I struggle to accept you're getting both of those units out of a single kit, given the options - you can see a few repeat parts here & there that suggest a duplicate sprue, but even among just the Hoppers there are a fair few unique bitz and I don't really see anything shared between them at first glance. If they are though, crikey a wee bit of green stuff to make extra squig bodies and this might be the best value kit from the perspective of "extras if you're a bit clever" GW have done in ages.
Even if they're not though, I'm having the Herder kit for Mordheim. Lovely wee models.
I'm actually interested to see what they've done with the Trolls now, a less-goofy take on the fungus one could be very interesting.
Danny76 wrote: I don’t play AoS.
I had Fantasy, never did goblins but painted a few up.
These.
These make me want to buy them all.
Love them
I love how we see a similar comment with every new army revealed. It tells me GW is doing something right in the design department.
Yeah. I’ve constantly kept up with AoS. Seen plenty that’s nice, and lots of people saying it as each faction comes.
But this is the one that gets me excited!
I've always said: Once they release the bad moon clans I'm in!
Overread wrote: I need GW to hold off on Angelic/Demonic Aelves at least until mid 2019. Because I know I'm going to likely weaken for at least one of those forces and I really want to actually finish most of my DoK buying/building before that moment comes.
I hope there will be a release of one of those armies in the second half of 2019, with another one following in the first half of 2020. The new generation kits are pleasantly stimulating and imaginative, it's enjoyable to see how everything falls in its place.
I hope these guys get a reasonably well stocked Start Collecting with all these squigs in it! I definitely want the plastic squigs for my WFB army. They look great.
Da Boss wrote: I hope these guys get a reasonably well stocked Start Collecting with all these squigs in it! I definitely want the plastic squigs for my WFB army. They look great.
You won't get a Start Collecting for a long while yet.
The faction terrain and endless spells are the best so far imho, and everything else is pretty great as well. Hoping for manglers in plastic too, and hoping for the giant centipede to be real.
Da Boss wrote: I hope these guys get a reasonably well stocked Start Collecting with all these squigs in it! I definitely want the plastic squigs for my WFB army. They look great.
Factions don't get SC kits at launch. Look for that in 6-8 months when the initial says start to trail off.
Loving these, they are close enough to the old model range to fit in with my night goblin army while also having a new dynamic to them due to the poses. Will be getting one of everything show so far bar the magic spells.
Mangler squibs and trolls will be icing on the cake. Just need some square bases to fit them on.
around 6-7 seconds, theres something big and red in the background. i assume a giant squig monster. maybe a plastic version of that forgeworld thing?
also, i hope that older goblin lord choice (a night goblin wizard with a huge squig on a single base) makes it into the list. i assume it would. that was a cool model.
I need that terrain piece just for all the mushroom bits. no more hand sculpting mushrooms for me
[UPDATE/Correction - apologies - just noticed that special character now is just a night goblin with a giant squig option. i dont play AoS. just get some of the models. have they combined any FW models into the actual rule sheets for lists? for example, dread saurian rules in the sepheron or whatever lizardmen are called now, etc? any changes the FW squig lobba, etc could make it in? seems like a good way to drive some more sales for those models IMHO]
StarFyre wrote: around 6-7 seconds, theres something big and red in the background. i assume a giant squig monster. maybe a plastic version of that forgeworld thing?
If the list posted in this thread is correct, it could e a new version of the Mangler Squig...
I always had a soft spot for night goblins since I started whf back in the day with battle for skull pass. I like all the new models and I hope they get some generic characters to lead the army as I tend to like creating my own heroes as opposed to using gws named ones.
Not sure I want to, or even should start this army (as in can't afford to). But out of all the aos armies so far these are more my style.
streetsamurai wrote: I hope that they seriously redesigned the mangler squig if it's indeed the big goblin release. I hate the current concept with a passion
They did not, you can see a blurred one in the codex flipthrough and it's still a squig on a squig.
pretty much ... I wasn't aware of the existence of that line.
Now the question is, will spiderfang get new stuff or will they just add to moonclan grotz now only
I'm fairly sure GW merged them to cut down on subfaction overload; but also so that the Grots can share units between them easily without having any ally limits. I fully expect Spider to get some attention and be bolstered up and it might even be that the battletome is basically the Grot armies merged, but where each can stand on its own without much of the other.
So you could go nearly all pure spiderfang or pure badmoon
I'd hope they take this as an opportunity to add more forest goblins, given the merger and the sheer amount of spider theming going on. A cav unit, a character and a big monster really isn't enough to go on.
The night gobbo kit is still pretty solid, but it'd be nice if the silver tower chaos grots did show up.
I genuinely believe gitmob will remain out of this tome ... and either stay like dispossessed with old whf line, or brand new line in the future (either way ... more for them)
I thought they paint resin masters or 3d test prints, both of those shouldn't have those heads-come-in-halves gaps?
