I want cheep beast squigs that can charge a unit first, use up a units overwatch, so that the orks can come in and smack down. I am a little tired of an ork army not wanting to get into close combat. Think the ork version of wolves. I thinks a fast attack choice made up of 1-3 units of attack squigs.
I want boars and cyboars back as well. So many models gathering dust.
I also want the monstrous creature sized squigs as well. Kind of like the ones in Fantasy.
Can't see anti-challenge rules happening for Orks. They are supposed to be over-the-top wanting to prove their strength - the definition of wanting to challenge!
Boys probably don't need to change, rather, other things in the codex need to be made worthwhile in comparison.
rollawaythestone wrote: Can't see anti-challenge rules happening for Orks. They are supposed to be over-the-top wanting to prove their strength - the definition of wanting to challenge!
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I was thinking making them better in a chalange somehow better initiative.
I have a strong feeling lootas will take a hell of a nerfing.
MANs will be excellent and I think Stormboyz will also become suddenly useful. I'd expect the Warboss to get a 'royal court' option of big meks, nobs, painboyz and maybe even a weirdboy.
Flyers will get cheaper, there will be a middle option for transport between the hellishly expensive BW and the utterly useless trukk, or they will improve trukks significantly.
I hope there is also significant movement of units around in the codex, more scoring troops options for instance (flash gits perhaps?). And that somethink positive is done with the two types of walker.
zammerak wrote: No, I have not heard anything about a new Ork codex but I was wondering what my fellow ork players would like to see in the new codex?
I would like to see some kind of anti-challenge rule for my nobs, sick of them being killed by challenges .
What do you all think?
I just personally think that an Ork Nob wouldn't refuse a challenge, I mean if he's leading a boyz mob to swagger about throwing his weight around and lording over "da littul 'uns" I don't think they'd continue following him if he was hiding from "da runty umie's" It's like the whole reason the Ork's go to war against other races, to prove they are the best!
think it would be good to give the Nob some defensive options or maybe an AP value to those big coppas? so he wasn't always going last in challenges?
I think it would be cool to involve some of the Ork Tellyporta's
or like a big mek finally convincing some boyz to climb into his Shokk attack gun, how funny would it be shooting orks though a gun into assaults (with crazy orky results)
I know it wont happen but I can dream!
Rumor has it lootas are getting Gets Hot! special rule.
If that is true, i will never field my lootas ever again. They will kill themselves on the first volley.
I would like to see MANz molded into the normal Nobz group, powerarmor being a 20pt upgrade to even the costs. Why? Megaarmored Painboyz and Cybork armors w/o Grotsnik!!! Theyre litterally the same damn unit except one has a 2+, auto pklaw and tl shoota, and has 0 upgrade options (kombi weapons on them are a waste).
Would also love to see Flash Gitz reworked. Either same cost, make them top off at Str8 so they actually DO something and can take dedicated transports, or cheaper cost (way cheaper) and current stats and take a dedicated transport. Right now, a valid Flash Gitz group is WAY more expensive than a healthy bikernob missile, and it lacks wheels of some sort as it cannot have a dedicated transport and its only Str6 Assault 2 with orky BS holding their potential back. Str6 APD6-1 does not sound like its worth 500+ points to me.
I also had a random brainstorm idea last night when my opponent was raging at my battlewagon constantly repairing itself thanks to riggers/big mek. Wouldnt it be hilarious if the Big Mek could walk up to a wrecked vehicle, any vehicle, and if you roll a 6 you repair it and it becomes fully functional with 1 hullpoint and orky BS. Would be hilarious to "wreck" a few tanks on an IG tankline and have your KFF mek walk up, fix one with a pi-plate, and snipe his own units you werent charging yet with said piplate lol. Of course there'd have to be a bit of a backfire. Roll a 1, the vehicle explodes violently and causes Str4 hits in a D6+2inch radius. Would suck to have it happen, but would be awesome to get a free piplate for a turn lol
Kommandos with "I can charge i dont care about the BRB" special rule.
Seriously i hate that rule. While it helped "balance" in some areas it utterally destroyed SEVERAL units because that was the only way they were usable was come in, charge, kill, die and hope you got more points than you were worth.
Only viable way to use them right now at all is to use Snikrot to deliver a meganob boss behind enemy lines. Which if you arent against a gunline wont help either since they probably wont be at his board edge anymore.
Battle wagons that only do str 3 hits to passengers when they blow up. Better flash gits. A couple decent high str good range vehicle guns. A BW that does not have a tiny tiny front ark and a huge giant side ark =P
Boyz probably won't change. Nobz and Bosses will probably get a few new toys. I'd like Trukks to be cheaper, it seems odd that they cost the same as a Rhino without upgrades. Bikes will probably have exhaust smoke replaced with normal Jink, though I'd like to see Wazdakka get Skilled Rider...and his own miniature.
Speaking of miniatures, since a lot of the newer codexes are getting plastic kits for some units (Tau Pathfinders for example), I'd like to see a kit for Meganobz with more modelling options than these finecast ones.
I wouldn't be surprised if Flash Gitz were just cut enitrely and Badrukk was made into an HQ choice.
easysauce wrote:seriously... orks need power weapons too...
or something other then the two options available, power claw, or big choppa
orks are a shooty army again, they need to be a CC army, the loss of furious charges I bonus really hurts.
But we have an entire unit of power weapons! Burna boyz!
....reworded the request: Power weapons in a feasible and affordable way. Burna boyz are too squishy to not be in a wagon so they never get to melee combat and if you charge them first if they dont overwatch with +10 D3 flames of death then hes an idiot as thats his best bet to survive that charge, not his going second AP3 attacks that are Str3.
Really surprised the Bigmek atleast doesnt have a power weapon option that IS NOT the burna. I say this cuz i refuse to pay 20pts for a damn powerweapon on a mediocre model.
Wilytank wrote:Boyz probably won't change. Nobz and Bosses will probably get a few new toys. I'd like Trukks to be cheaper, it seems odd that they cost the same as a Rhino without upgrades. Bikes will probably have exhaust smoke replaced with normal Jink, though I'd like to see Wazdakka get Skilled Rider...and his own miniature.
Speaking of miniatures, since a lot of the newer codexes are getting plastic kits for some units (Tau Pathfinders for example), I'd like to see a kit for Meganobz with more modelling options than these finecast ones.
I wouldn't be surprised if Flash Gitz were just cut enitrely and Badrukk was made into an HQ choice.
Trukks should indeed be cheaper. Yes, Rhinos die just as easy as trukks but rhinos dont charge into the heat of battle anymore theyre used as mobile gun platforms. Orks only have 1 vehicle that can attempt that, and the Boomgun is a joke (literally, its a joke).
Wazdakka getting his own model wouldnt affect the vast majority of ork players. Myself included. Why? A lot of us have already made a Wazdakka model that is too awesome to shelve. I use it instead of my normal Bikerboss model because i did such a vastly better job on it vs the bikerboss lol. He does need skilled rider and he also needs CYBORK ARMOR because for some dumb reason he is the only HQ that cannot get it and he needs it. Cant even Grotsnik him because you are restricted from cyborking unique HQs.
Meganobz are the money sink of the Ork army. I dont expect them to make new models of them, ever. The 5 i got off ebay are all i'll ever have of those models though, im working on making more from scratch that have some character to them. (or planning to, right now im working on putting together the most annoying model in the ork army - SAG Big Mek...feth that thing)
I actually like the random AP of the flash gitz and if you remove them entirely we have no ignore cover attacks except burnas (impractical in most situations) or Badrukk himself. They need a buff, not a removal. Also a point cut lol they are way too expensive for models that are so slow and bound to be instapasted anyway.
Another change i would like to find i forgot to mention: Ork Behemoth.
This would just be a massive mutated ork with MC rules, Fearless, 3+ armor upgradable to 2+, 5 wounds T7. Why do i want this? So i can field this damn thing and not have him get blown away turn 1 because Deffdreads are worthless:
Unless they gave it some way to get across the board (like it can occupy a Battlewagon that is still open-topped filling all 20 slots) it would be as slow as deffdreads but way more durable since 3+/2+ armor and T7 is way harder to take out than AV12.
Prediction: lootas will get kicked in the teeth. Flash gits will get a plastic kit and rules that are so awesome that every ork player will need several big mobs. The kit for boys will not change so a nice drop in points will be required to get you to buy more. You will also undoubtedly get some big monstrous creature. I'm hoping for a squigoth!
I'm not sure boyz can have a drop in points... unless they also get nerfed in some way and that will make me a very sad panda. Also it may cause me to attack someone.
Rumors are all orks in general are getting 6+ FNP. If they gave ork boyz that rule and lowered the cost people would swamp the game stores for boyz upon boyz because they just became broken, even if it was down to 5pts a pop.
I just hope if they do give us a 6+ FNP we dont lose our t-shirt saves. That way the few times we get to use that t-shirt we get TWO TRIES! lol
Wazdakka getting his own model wouldnt affect the vast majority of ork players. Myself included. Why? A lot of us have already made a Wazdakka model that is too awesome to shelve.
I'm pretty sure Dark Angel players had the same feeling about Belial. Didn't stop him from getting his own miniature.
Meganobz are the money sink of the Ork army. I dont expect them to make new models of them, ever. The 5 i got off ebay are all i'll ever have of those models though, im working on making more from scratch that have some character to them. (or planning to, right now im working on putting together the most annoying model in the ork army - SAG Big Mek...feth that thing)
I can guarantee you that if such a kit would exist, people will buy them. I myself have no interest at this time in buying individual resin models that will all look the same and I'm not at all confident with modeling materials to make conversions like these
Boyz dropping a point and getting 6+ is not a huge game changer. They're still just boyz.
The Faeit 212 blog has a lot of ork rumors. We're in store for a lot of new kits if the rumors are to be believed.
I think we'll see point drops across the board. Cheaper nobs that may come with heavy armor standard. Cheaper PKs (25 points......). Burnas in boyz squads would be nice. Reworking the Ramshackle table and adding it to Battlewagons or making ork vehicles not take the +1 on damage chart for being open topped. Looted wagon overhaul. Higher strength weapons. Make our stuff more reliable (looking at you zzap gun and shokk attack gun). Shooting str 8 rokkits at BS2 sucks. Even if they're twin linked.
I'd like to see more upgrade options for the lootas & burnas, as it stands you just take a whole bunch of em and give the burnas a mek. Some more weapon options for the lootas and maybe give the burnas a napalm grenade.
Also something that fixes the nerfs fleet and furious charge, having big choppa nobs strike at the same time as marines was damn deadly.
Finally I want the walkers to be awesomesauce again, nothing to make them OP just worthwhile.
Ork 'eavy Armour needs to be bumped up to a 3+, IMO, to make them comparable to Space Marines.
Other Ork roster entries need to be able to take 'Eavy Armour (esp Lootas and Burnas)
Ork Vehicles need an Armour upgrade instead of the tissue-thin AV that they have now.
MC/Walker that's comparable to the DreadKnight.
and finally: A special rule that for +X amount of points for a model, they can loot ANY vehicle out of any current codex! Muhahahahahahaha. Looted Ghost Ark or Looted Baneblade anyone?
Vineheart01 wrote: Rumors are all orks in general are getting 6+ FNP. If they gave ork boyz that rule and lowered the cost people would swamp the game stores for boyz upon boyz because they just became broken, even if it was down to 5pts a pop.
I just hope if they do give us a 6+ FNP we dont lose our t-shirt saves. That way the few times we get to use that t-shirt we get TWO TRIES! lol
I don't think they will get 6+ FNP, because in the Death from the Skies book you can upgrade fliers to become Aces and they get their own roll on a d3 table (like the warlord trait) and the 5-6 is that the fighter grants 6+ FNP to all Orks within 12".
If they did put it in the Codex then the above option is pointless really.
Bring back the 3rd Ed version of Waaagh. Instead of getting Fleet, they do a "size check" (leadership test against current mob size) and get +1 attack and Double initiative if passed. Ghazkull instead allows all units to auto pass.
Give the truly dedicated shooting units (lootas, Flash gits) +1 BS and -1 WS to compensate (they spend so much time shooting they forgot how to krump good and proppa)
Make Mega armor and option for nobz, rather than a different unit.
bring back Nazdreg, and give him the special rule that he can allow d3 units to deepstrike. (his Telly Portas)
Add Bad Doks to the list of HQs, allowing units to take Painboyz at 15points instead of nobs.
Give Big choppa's an AP value.
bring back the Dakka Dread. (can replace its CCWs to make the guns TL)
Give the Kans something to make them a little more durable.
Give tank bustas some form of ranged Melta. (even if it only has the stat line of a melta pistol)
Instead of Orkz getting a 6+ fnp AND a t-shirt, why not just give them no save and a normal fnp? They could actually get a save! It be no different than the previous suggestion (other than it is like have two chances all the time), but it is one roll. Afterall orkz are tough cookies that can take a beating and still keep on the fight. Why shouldn't they have fnp to support the statement? That way the only thing that would stop an ork with no chance of a save is something like a rokkit that could auto-kill em.
Sure. We could do the 6+ FNP thing. Or we could keep pretending that there's a difference between AP- and AP6. There's not a lot to support the second statement, but orks were doing a pretty nice job...
Vast majority of weapons are at least AP6 so we get no save whatsoever except the terrain were in.
even a 6+ FNP allows us to try if we have no save, or a backup unlikely to happen try on top of the normal save except against Str8+ weapons (which except for the Str8 Ap3 pi plates how many str 8 weapons hit boyz till theres nothing else to shoot at...)
Thats the point. Even without the tshirt save its way better because the odds you denying THAT 6+ save are much lower.
Id like to see all units with the option of dedicated trsnsports it sucks that i have to have a 12 man boyz squad just to get a truck for my tankbustas and flash gitz id like to see flash gitz get BS3 i think their fluff makes a valid case for them having it id like to see tankbustas take a minor points drop and perhaps a way to make KFF a 4+ save again so i can dust off my kanz
So explain to my why you expect to get your t-shirt save and a cover save on top of it? Especially when we're talking about a unit that was balanced with the expectation that the only save it would get against shooting attacks are cover?
First of all a new mob rule. Right now its rather stupid.
Fearless is abit too good and ld 7 is too crappy.
We need something in between.
Remove lootas, burnas and tankbustas and give orks a new unit: Special boys (or watevah name)
5-20 normal boys with the option of one nob and up to 3 meks
Give each boy the option to become a tankbusta, loota or burna at 10p
And give the unit a dedicated transport.
This way we can have some ablative wounds before we start removing the expensive guns, a nob and bosspole for burnas and lootas, meks for tankbustas, you can do a big squad and mix in a few special weapons for utillity.
Remember the old days when lootas, burnas and tankbustas were just normal boys with the option of 4 weapon upgrades?
Combine nobs and meganobs to one unit. Make mega armour an upgrade for 20ish point. Let the poor meganobs be able to use a bosspole and a waaagh banner.
Also, how about making the nobs like wolfguard, or necron. So you build them in the nob unit, then deploy them in other boy units. With the option of taking more then one boss in each unit. Or make them independent characters.
Price adjust the grots. 3p is rather stupid when you compare what you can get for 4p. Conscript and cultists are much better.
Orks need a reliable anti tank weapon. Claws isnt enough anymore. They need some kind of new Zzap guns, melta rokkits, ramming buggies or bomb squigs.
New units we need: Squigs, Warphead battle squad, drillakillas (flying or on wheels), looted tanks (pick from other codex but with BS2) and boarboys.
We need rules for Goff, Badmoon, Snakebite, Deathskulls and Evil Sunz. (and that cammo clan too)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and we need Kemikaze Grots!
20-30ish point
Squad of 1-5
Small individual airplanes with 9 9 9 armour, one HP and a big shoota.
Special rule: Crashland
Ram a vehicle or tankshock a unit. Place the small blast template and scatter D6. Everything under the template suffer a str 9 hit. Remove the Kemikaze grot. Not usable on the turn you enter from reserve.
schadenfreude wrote:Lootas should have gets hot and variable ap of d6...ponder that for a minute then tell me how many points loot as would be worth...
No, no, no, and NO
I dont care if they make them a flat out AP1 giving lootas the Gets Hot! rule will ruin the unit.
10 lootas is the norm (best numbers still goto ground). Roll a 3 on the D3, so 30 shots. On average you will roll 5-8 1s. On average, you might save 1-3 of those wounds with your t-shirt armor. You just lost more than half of your unit, morale check please - oh you failed a Ld7 test? go figure, run away please.
You will ONLY get 1 shot from them, maaaaaybe 2, per game and the enemy can completely ignore them since they'll kill themself. Gets Hot! on any model with less than a 4+ save is suicide and should never exist.
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I like the idea of consolidating all the special guns into 1 unit. It would let us play around with the unit alot too. At 5-20 boyz you could run a group of 20 with 5 normal (meatshields), 3-5 Burna (for overwatch safety), and the rest Lootas (for da dakka). That would make them soooo much more survivable on their own in the backfield, i'd gladly pay a little more to make them a bit more scary if you get too close (or atleast, make you pay a little for assaulting them)
The big reason to me for merging Meganobz/Nobz isnt the Waagh! banner (though thats a nice one) but rather the Painboy - Painboy is allowed to take any of the bottom upgrades as they just add to the model, not replace something. The only reason he cannot take any shooty or krumpy upgrades is because he replaces his slugga/choppa for his dok tools. This means the painboy would be allowed to take Mega Armor (unless they make the upgrade replace slugga/choppa that is) which makes him MUCH more survivable and also gives the meganobz FNP which is really, really needed.
MANz will continue to be excellent. I expect cybork bodies will become stock, or a cheap upgrade.
They will get a MC. (that seems to be the theme of 6th edition books). It might be a giant troll. It might be a riptide-esque grot in a mega-dread.
Ghaz will be nurfed. Maybe grotsnik will be your new go-to ork.
Ork bikes will be boosted to make them viable. GW will want to return the 'biker list' option. It brings good sales.
Battlewagons and truuks will remain the same.
I don't think the speical units of orks will change. Lootas will still be orks with big guns, burnas are orks with flamers, etc. They might add more synergy -- but don't expect a 3+ save on a loota.
I predict shoota boys to get nurfed. Orks are -- at heart -- an 'in your face' choppy army. I expect them to be pushed back to the choppas in your face.
Vineheart01 wrote: Why would they nerf Ghaz when hes already almost never used except in Apoc games?
I guess that's just a difference of Meta's. I see Ghaz nearly all the time. The reason is because he completely smashes face.
If you look for another thread called "Abbadon will take your lunch money", we talk about Ghaz, and he is incredibly good in challanges or beating face in general.
Ghaz is awesome. He gives your ork army a lot of flexability. Let me give you an example. Yesterday I was playing my ork buddy. He bogged down my LoC with 30 boys, so I took a squad of CSM and used them to bail my LoC out. I knocked the orks down to 9 boys, meaning he would need snake eyes to stay. This was critical as I would free up my LoC to contest his objective on my following turn, and I could use the CSM to block any assaults onto the LoC. On the other flank, I did something similar when I used a GUO, a defiler, and another squad of CSM to smash another squad to 4 boys.
My buddy popped Ghaz's waaagh, making both of those ork squads fearless. Instead of breaking out of assault, I was bogged down, allowing him to bring in Ghaz and more boys on my LoC and more boys on my other flank. This bogged me down for another few turns, allowing my friend to win the game. Ghaz did not even try and go after my LoC, he chewed up a bunch of CSM, causing me to fail a instability test.
He costs 95 more than a Meganob Boss and the only real upgrade is immune to instapaste. If you charge him first (which is easy as he is SNP) he only has 4 attacks and most other named HQs that are melee-orintated are much deadlier than that.
The only reason i take him over a normal warboss is if im going against someone i know brings MCs because he is the most reliable anti-MC for the orks other than just dumb luck with lootas. Normal boss would just get pasted.
No, hes already a huge debate between him or a normal boss. Way too expensive for vast situations.
Vineheart01 wrote: He costs 95 more than a Meganob Boss and the only real upgrade is immune to instapaste. If you charge him first (which is easy as he is SNP) he only has 4 attacks and most other named HQs that are melee-orintated are much deadlier than that.
And +2 attacks on the charge.
Ghaz also has 5 attacks, not 4.
Ghaz also has 4 wounds, not 3.
Ghaz also has WS 6, not 5. This means hes hitting WS 5 targets on a 3+.
Ghaz also has a 2++ save for 2 rounds of assault. This means he can clobber most 'hard targets'. Who the heck is going to 'charge him first?' I almost always try and avoid him. To make it worse, hes usually coming out of a truuk/battlewagon -- mitigating the SnP Ghaz also can give your entire army fearless -- which can be a significant advantage. Look at my previous post for an example.
Vineheart01 wrote: The only reason i take him over a normal warboss is if im going against someone i know brings MCs because he is the most reliable anti-MC for the orks other than just dumb luck with lootas. Normal boss would just get pasted..
What happens if your playing in a tourney where you don't know what your going to face
I'd like to see an orkish monstrous creature. Some kind of steroid-ork, perhaps you could take them as troops if you take mad doc grotsnik, and they could be his latest "success"
So yeah, giant steroidy ork would be my number one.
Otherwise, just revamp some of the failing units (Kommandoz, flash gitz, give big gun'z options a bit of a tweak, give nob'z a tweak so they actually make a viable choice for troops over more boy'z )
Proper orkish psykers would be fun too, though still give them bonkers randomness, such as if they fail their psychic test they get a result similar to the 'eadbanger from the current codex and such, but open up some bookpowers too
Evileyes wrote: Otherwise, just revamp some of the failing units (Kommandoz, flash gitz, give big gun'z options a bit of a tweak, give nob'z a tweak so they actually make a viable choice for troops over more boy'z )
Why are they fail units? What can be done to make them not fail?
IMHO, kommandoz would be a lot better if they could take shootas, or something like haywire gernades.
Kommandos outta have the Stealth special rule, that way they can lurk in a ruin they Infiltrated in and wait a turn reasably safe.
Also yea i hit 4 by accident i meant 5 for ghaz's attacks. And people charge him all the time for me because it denies me +2 attacks and i usually wiff half of my normal 5. But like you said its probably local meta. Im actually the only ork player which is weird lol (we just had a new one show up but hes a fledgling and can barely field an army atm so he kinda doesnt count yet lol)
Agree with Vineheart, anyone who ever fielded Badruk should know what "Gets Hot!" does to orks rapidly firing their guns (not to be confused with rapid fire guns). Or imperial commanders with dual plasma pistols, for that matter.
Things I'd like for a new ork codex: - Meaningful reward for characters when winning a challenge. Get an extra Waagh!, carry over additional wounds to unit/combat resolution, make the Ork grow (ork->nob->warboss->gork's avatar of stompin') or take their wargear for yourself. There have been dozens of great ideas on this, many of them awesome. I don't care, just punish people severely for challenge-baiting. Your sergeant saved three marines because he challenged my nob? Too,bad, the nob i going to crush your unit next turn with his newly found power armor while dual-wielding powersword and powerklaw. - Make weirdboyz good. Not awesome, just good, like the SAG is currently. As they are now, they are completely useless most of the turns. I'd rather have huge feet of gork stomping half the units on the battlefield (mine included), than call another warpath in a unit of shootboyz 20" away from the closest enemy unit. - An excellent idea already suggested by someone on this thread: Make ork vehicles explode at S3. Losing half your unit whenever a vehicle blows up is everything but fun. Especially when your vehicles are designed to explode. The orks want their vehicles to carry them to the frontlines and explode their. I want my vehicles to carry the orks to the front lines and explode there. Getting punished for doing exactly what the codex tells you to do sucks. - Do something to make slugga boyz equivalent to shoota boyz, instead of being strictly worse in most cases. Maybe give them rage or something. - Fix Thrakka's Waagh!, so it does something useful. - Allow Snikrot to appear out of nowhere and stab people, rather have him appear out of nowhere and get shot. This doesn't need to be the old charge-from-reserves rule, it could be him appearing in forests, infiltrate without restrictions or something. - Deff dreads need some way to actually make it into combat. I have yet so see a single deff dread actually kill something with a DCCW. - Kanz should either get cheaper, so you only pay for their ranged ability, or have a way so survive those krak every single member of the imperium seems to have receive at bith. 3 HP would work, I guess. As they are now, they are expensive shooting platforms with either chance at winning combat at all (vs IoM), or cheap close combat monsters with decent shooting (vs Xenos). They should be equally good (or bad) against all armies, and not have something like krak grenades make or brake them. - Blitza bommers should actually be good against vehicles. Right now, you can consider yourself lucky if you get to kill a single rhino with them. That's right, a single dedicated transport with a plane costing four times as much. - Zogwort needs BS1 or some replacement effect happening when he rolls a shooting attack, like making it rain squigs or whatever. - Make orks in general more scary in close combat again. Improving either the Waagh! or the ork statline in general (add USR) should do the trick.
Most other units could use point drops (more points on some, less on others), but the ones I listed are things which are actually broken, rather than just overcosted/undercosted.
TL;DR: Allow ork units to do what they are supposed to do. Melee units should kick ass in close combat, and not lose to imperial guardsmen. Anti-tank units should be able to kill tanks. Transports should transport units and not kill them. Completely breaking special characters with a rules update and not fixing them via FAQ is bad game design.
I would like to see some of the more useless models become useful or be taken out. Also killa kans are great I have taken to using the imperial armor codex with killa kans as troops.
So I was looking over some things on 1d4chan for Orks and one proposed idea for a new codex that I found funny was a flying helicopter transport for Grots with bomb bay doors to drop the Gretchin out of. It holds 20 grots (and runtherds?) and have to take dangerous terrain tests once they hit the ground. Hilarity ensues if they get dropped on another unit.
A much more effective one I found was for Stormboyz who get a "Rocket Boost" attack that can hit flyers. They must move 18" the turn they use it and if they pass a flyer, they get two attacks each as if assaulting a vehicle. They must only move as regular infantry the following turn. Obviously inspired by the Space Marine action game.
Grot tanks and guided bombs in the main codex.
Single pilot ork flyers - like a flying MC but cheaper and just for laughs.
Free-booter allies section/sub list; just like in the old white dwarves and hardnacked book.
Deffskulls to have access to imperial weapons as per the very original background stuff.
Looted Carnefix
Looted Riptides
Ork Genestealer hybrid cults
Ork with chaos mutations (finally starting to get silly).
Choppas back to giving a 4+ save to people in 2+and 3+ armour.
Orks can already ally with Guard, Tau, Chaos Marines, and Necrons though without trouble. If their allied possibilities were to be expanded, I think the amount of Ork stuff available to freebooterz should be limited.
One more interesting idea from 1d4chan: an HQ choice that's basically a Nob company command squad. They have Nob stat lines, but one of them is nominated as "Da Boss" who gets some sort of bonus. If Da Boss is killed, one of the other Nobz is promoted. If the unit is the Warlord unit, you only get Slay the Warlord if all of them are killed.
zammerak wrote: No, I have not heard anything about a new Ork codex but I was wondering what my fellow ork players would like to see in the new codex?
I would like to see some kind of anti-challenge rule for my nobs, sick of them being killed by challenges .
What do you all think?
How exactly is your Nob getting killed by challenges?, if you are referring to challenges against other HQs, yeah that happens to every single champion on the game, but against other champions/sergeants nobz are one of the toughest, mathematically a SM champion charging him would cause 1 wound if decked with a power sword, leaving the nob with one wound which would erase the champ/sarge out of existence at I1. A Nob with klaw costs less than a marine sarge with PF which would be the only champion with a good chance of killing him, which would end on a double K.O.
1. Nobz/MegaNobz/Flashgits unification. All the options available on all 3 available to all. At minimum, reduction in cost of power claws so that Meganobz are not discounted too much. Cyborg body to FNP.
2. Build in choppas to +1 S, Big Choppa +3 S.
3. Bring the old tyrannid rule to orks - that they get to attack even after they die... (a sort of shortlived FNP)
4. Bring back skarboyz... same rules as building boyz mobz. Basically 1 W nobz.
5. Flashgits had the one rule that allowed them to premeasure... seeing it is now universal, make it so that they provide BS +1. I know it is sacrelidge but BS 3 flashgits might come close to being worthwhile with BS 3.
6. Would love cyborks and squiggoths to make a reappearance.
7. Madboyz that enhance the power of psykers. (Perhaps like the pink horrors...)
8. Bring back the tankbusta bombs... give them a downside like S 10 +2d6 effect however if a double is rolled the ork takes a S 10 hit...
5. Flashgits had the one rule that allowed them to premeasure... seeing it is now universal, make it so that they provide BS +1. I know it is sacrelidge but BS 3 flashgits might come close to being worthwhile with BS 3.
WAAAGH! rule definately needs to be fixed, IMO. Gaining the "Fleet" rule due to a Waaagh! is pointless. As it stands now, I only declare Waaagh!s now whenever my DakkaJet comes into play so that I can light something up on the board.
I also wish/hope that they'll bring back the old "Mob Up" rule as well: Boyz can combine squads and/or intercept fleeing squads to combine them into one unit. Right now the only way we get it is in apoc games if we take Green Tide.
Getting rid of Lootas or giving them the Gets Hot rule? I'm with Vine on this one: HEEELLLLLS NO!
Wilytank wrote: Lootas will likely get some sort of nerf though. I'm not going to mind it since Lootas are too slow/cowardly for what I'm planning to do with Orks.
Wilytank wrote: Lootas will likely get some sort of nerf though. I'm not going to mind it since Lootas are too slow/cowardly for what I'm planning to do with Orks.
Oh? Do tell?
I've said this elsewhere already, but I'm planning on doing Speed Kult, and unless I want to do a Deffgun drive by in a Battlewagon (which would be hilarious), Lootas don't have a place in my army.
Wilytank wrote: Lootas will likely get some sort of nerf though. I'm not going to mind it since Lootas are too slow/cowardly for what I'm planning to do with Orks.
Oh? Do tell?
I've said this elsewhere already, but I'm planning on doing Speed Kult, and unless I want to do a Deffgun drive by in a Battlewagon (which would be hilarious), Lootas don't have a place in my army.
Swoop wrote: Prediction: lootas will get kicked in the teeth. Flash gits will get a plastic kit and rules that are so awesome that every ork player will need several big mobs. The kit for boys will not change so a nice drop in points will be required to get you to buy more. You will also undoubtedly get some big monstrous creature. I'm hoping for a squigoth!
I hope so... cheaper boys, say 5 pts would seem about right.
orks should have a monstrous creature,
or warbosses should be MC's, and actually be feared in combat, instead of being meh.
Lots of good ideas from everyone. Ork players have long memories. I agree with bringing back a lot of the old rules.
I'll try to only mention ones no one else has:
Choppas reducing armor save by 1, 2 if charging.
Burnas getting 2D6AP in CC, they're cutting torches for Gork's sake!
Choppas get rending while charging.
DeffRollas on Looted wagons.
Allowing all Orks, including Kommandoes to charge the turn they come from reserves.
Allow for double Sluggas, no Choppa for Twinkinked shooting but still get plus 1 Attacks.
Tankbustas have, IDK fracking Tank Hunters USR!!!
Allow other units and/or Characters to have Tankbusta bombs like Sgts get Meltabombs.
More rules for having more Orks in anyone mob or on the board, such as enhancing BS, twin-linking, rerolls for Madboyz.
Make Madboyz and PainBoyz Elite 1-3 IC's that can join any unit ala BA Chaplins. GW would sell a helluva lot more of both if I could oh one of each in every Boyz mob!
Improve BS upto auto hit with Zapp Gunz including shooting at fliers!
More than 2 types of weapons in a Boyz mob. Just 2 upgrades?
Bikes need a 5 point reduction or bring back Psycho-Blasta-Dakka rule! Bring back outriders (scout bikers from Codex aremgeddeon) I suppose they're like Deffkoptas. Bring back Mek Deffkoptas with more toys.
Dust cloud 5+ cover save for any mob of Boyz at least 15, 20?
Spikes n' Blades on all non transports!!!! Those were always Lol's
Some type of Skimmer transport, looted Raiders?
Grots that actually do something?
PipeAlley wrote: Lots of good ideas from everyone. Ork players have long memories. I agree with bringing back a lot of the old rules.
I'll try to only mention ones no one else has:
Choppas reducing armor save by 1, 2 if charging.
2 if charging? was that in 2nd?, in 3rd choppas only reduced the armor save by 1, just like khorne chainaxes. Looking at the CSM codex they might get it back just like chaos as AP4 choppas for +1 pt each one.
PipeAlley wrote: Lots of good ideas from everyone. Ork players have long memories. I agree with bringing back a lot of the old rules.
I'll try to only mention ones no one else has:
Choppas reducing armor save by 1, 2 if charging.
2 if charging? was that in 2nd?, in 3rd choppas only reduced the armor save by 1, just like khorne chainaxes. Looking at the CSM codex they might get it back just like chaos as AP4 choppas for +1 pt each one.
Sorry, should have been more clear. Most was my wish list, some of it was old rules such as 2d6 on the burnas.
zammerak wrote: Choppas need AP or armor reducing, that would be much more intimidating on the charge
maybe give choppas the RAGE usr?
Agree. They did that to pretty much every Khorne unit in both new codices, so I think we should get something similar, too
Lord Yayula wrote: How exactly is your Nob getting killed by challenges?, if you are referring to challenges against other HQs, yeah that happens to every single champion on the game, but against other champions/sergeants nobz are one of the toughest, mathematically a SM champion charging him would cause 1 wound if decked with a power sword, leaving the nob with one wound which would erase the champ/sarge out of existence at I1. A Nob with klaw costs less than a marine sarge with PF which would be the only champion with a good chance of killing him, which would end on a double K.O.
The true problem is that the nob will crush the champion, but only cause one wound towards combat resolution, which is pretty weak for a 51 point model. Then the other marines (or guardsmen) defeat the regular boyz., you lose combat and get sweeped. If you are fighting guardsmen, they can even disable your nob for multiple turns. It's less of a problem against most some armies, as their squad leader is somewhat important and expensive, but most of the IoM get a free squad leader by default, with close to no additional value over a regular squad member besides +1A and +1ld. I believe in WHFB winners of challenges get to count all overkill wounds towards combat resolution, as it is demoralizing when their leader is torn to shreds and spread all over the battlefield. We really need something along those lines.
4 Trukks (48 Boyz) and 2 Battlewagons (38 Boyz, Warboss, and KFF) zip across the board. The instant they disembark they forge 2-3 giant blobs with multiple nobz and charge people not giving two hoots about challenges cuz they got 2-3 PKs in each group anyway.
I thought maybe give nobs a rule were we can accept a challenge by throwing a boy at the challenger to absorb the first attacks then sucker punch him with a powers klaw. Only umies care about honor. Orks only care about who's still standing afterward.
zammerak wrote: Choppas need AP or armor reducing, that would be much more intimidating on the charge
maybe give choppas the RAGE usr?
Agree. They did that to pretty much every Khorne unit in both new codices, so I think we should get something similar, too
Lord Yayula wrote: How exactly is your Nob getting killed by challenges?, if you are referring to challenges against other HQs, yeah that happens to every single champion on the game, but against other champions/sergeants nobz are one of the toughest, mathematically a SM champion charging him would cause 1 wound if decked with a power sword, leaving the nob with one wound which would erase the champ/sarge out of existence at I1. A Nob with klaw costs less than a marine sarge with PF which would be the only champion with a good chance of killing him, which would end on a double K.O.
The true problem is that the nob will crush the champion, but only cause one wound towards combat resolution, which is pretty weak for a 51 point model. Then the other marines (or guardsmen) defeat the regular boyz., you lose combat and get sweeped. If you are fighting guardsmen, they can even disable your nob for multiple turns. It's less of a problem against most some armies, as their squad leader is somewhat important and expensive, but most of the IoM get a free squad leader by default, with close to no additional value over a regular squad member besides +1A and +1ld. I believe in WHFB winners of challenges get to count all overkill wounds towards combat resolution, as it is demoralizing when their leader is torn to shreds and spread all over the battlefield. We really need something along those lines.
Khorne got rage but lost 1 base attack, Orks would be very sad if that happens.
And regarding the challenge, yeah not counting the overkill wounds like in fantasy sucks. Still that is more of a 6th edition thing rather than a codex specific, any champ that pays a PF and gets challenges suffers the same fate. I think if nobz could get power weapons/rending for 10/5 pts it would be fine, keep the nob cheap while still being able to stand his ground on challenges.
wowsmash wrote: I thought maybe give nobs a rule were we can accept a challenge by throwing a boy at the challenger to absorb the first attacks then sucker punch him with a powers klaw. Only umies care about honor. Orks only care about who's still standing afterward.
Yes!! for an additional 5pts each a nob can have up to 3 grots that it hurls at the challenger reducing their initiative so the PK comes first Fits the fluff, seem fair
1) I like the idea of the 6+ FNP , makes sense orks are suppose to be as tough as nails
2)Ork's cant have the initiative stolen from them. They are unpredictable , even the million old Necron special characters hasn't figured out how to yet.
3) Swap WS and S. I don't picture Orks being that skilled as fighters, they are kind of big brutes. So WS -3 and Flat S-4 makes sense.
4) Remove furious charge (since they have base str-4) and give it to them for one turn when they WAAAGH. The excitement of the WAAAGH gets them pumped up, hence furious charge.
5) Put lootas as a Heavy choice, never make sense why they are elite and move Flash gitz to elites. This would be a minor Nerf to lootas I feel since now they would have to compete with battlewagons in the heavy slot
6) Make Deff dredds 13/12/10.
7) A Squiggoth monsterous creature
8) Nazdregg that allows units to teleport in.
9) A NEW BUGGY MODEL !!!! We still use the Gorka/Morka one !
10) A paintboy HQ choice other that Grotsnik (Even though I LOVE Grotsnik)
11) Their own warlord table, the book ones are useless most the time.
12) Mad boyz ! Dont care what they do as long as they are random and make me laugh
13) Any ork mob should be able to take heavy armor, not just one unit.
14) Some type of psychic defense. I am so sick of getting Enfeebled lol (I play against tyranids a lot)
15) Warboss should strike at Initiative with a powerklaw on the charge.
What I don't want to see:
1) Not a fan of a bunch of new grot units, Not that they would be bad, but I play Orks for Orks, not gretchin.
2) An uber monster ork, other than a special character that Grotsnik created (FrankeinOrk), I have never read in the fluff about a super huge ork. Biggest thing they have are the squiggoths.
3) Feral Orks / Boar boyz. I would play fantasy if I wanted these.
And Mostly
Just some cool New Plastic Models (I hate resin), I can deal with rules as long I like the models.
I want a lottas nerf, I hate auto-include units and lootas are so auto include that every army wants to ally orks just to get them. Get's hot would be funny, but make them useless. Maybe give them a 1/6 chance to get distracted by looting and can't shoot for a turn, but in return on the next turn they get +1S shots or something.
I want kommandos to be awesome. I love their fluff and wanted to build a mostly kommando army, 6th edition crushed that.
I would like to see a stick bomb unit, imagine a 30 man ork mob tossing 30 s4 small blast templates at something, and having them scatter off and explode orks and 'umie alike.
KFF should be an invuln save, so markerlights can't negate it. maybe have two versions, small and large or something.
Deffdreds and killakans need to be improved.
Overall, I want green tide and kan wall to work again. It is how I imagine most ork attacks going. No fancy truks or bikes. Just boots on the ground and choppas in skulls. I think orks in general need more reliable anti-tank.
5) Put lootas as a Heavy choice, never make sense why they are elite and move Flash gitz to elites. This would be a minor Nerf to lootas I feel since now they would have to compete with battlewagons in the heavy slot
Otheriwse I would personally suggest that choppas are AP6 and big choppas are AP4. A slightly buffed furious charge would be nice considering the loss of Initiative bonus when 6th arrived. Meganobz need more upgrades to merging them with Nobz wouldn't be a bad idea.
I heard that rumor about 6+ FNP and I think it would be great, not overpowered but randomly useful and fluffy (which is why Orks are really my main army)
I'd like to see Kommandos and Snikrot in particular get a buff to make him viable again, even something like stealth or shrouded would really help, or, you know just let me assault from outflank like he used to be able to do.
I'd love to see a MC of the squig variety. It's the only thing keeping Snakebites from being a viable clan from a fluff-to-play perspective.
Mega Nobz need an upgrades table. It's just so unfluffy that the richest, most obnoxious Orks are only able to purchase 1 of 3 Kombi-weapon upgrades. I would gladly pay up to 80 points each for them to have FNP, Cybork, Turbo-boostaz etc etc
Next thing I'd really like to see is an update for the Weirdboy/Warphead. He needs a 2D6 chart, with more randomly crazy things on it.
Lastly, I'd like to see some Clans love in the form of a Warlord Traits table. That's all they need to do to bring the Clans back (Goff traits, Badmoon traits etc) so simple to really diversify what should really be a much broader army list for the most successful species in the galaxy.
When I lose with my orks is not that much. They just need a few adjustments.
-Include in the Waaagh! +1 to Initiative
-Make the power klaw cheaper like the Tankbustas (15 points)
-Let the Meganobz have a painboy or let them run.
-The Nobz must cost the same as the boyz upgrade (16 points)
-Let the boyz squads have burnas.
-Help the Kommandos to be like in 5th edition.
-Reduce the cost of Killcannon.
-Make the Dakkajet shoota be 36 inches instead of 30
-Make the Killa Kans useful again. They blow up too easy now.
+1 Initiative on the WAAAGH! would be nice, right now it doesnt help their fighting at ALL yet still has that "they start fighting before getting to their enemy" bullcrap.
Never understood why a warcall that boils their blood and makes them charge like a raging lunatic confered 0 benefits to their fighting, big or small. Would be crazy if it even improved the Pklaw to I2 muhahahha.
I sincerely doubt they would give the MC status to Warbosses, that would be one insane buff. I could see it (even if he cost 50 more) for Ghaz though since hes suppose to be the biggest and baddest warboss and orks get vastly bigger the badder they become. I could totally see him as an MC attacking with a pklaw at iniative and not being hurt by SNP anymore.
Make trukk's 11/11/11, so they are flimsy, but not so flimsy that bolters can take them out. They look flimsy, but not as flimsy as say, a dark eldar vehicle.
Evileyes wrote: Make trukk's 11/11/11, so they are flimsy, but not so flimsy that bolters can take them out. They look flimsy, but not as flimsy as say, a dark eldar vehicle.
I agree with this, one problem with playing orks would be you have to decide between a competitive list and one for orky goodness. One example is the SAG too risky for competitive lists so fun in a fun game (I have lost an entire squad of lootas on a snake eye roll)
Loosing open topped on some vehicles is a must (looted wagon)
I think Killa Kanz should get a 5+ Inv (such as the rule for the ork units in IA: Apocalypse) and Deff Dredds should get a 5+ Inv and It will not die. I think that would be worthwhile for walkers to come back.
I'd definitely like to be able to play Orks the way that I want to: in melee. Shooting isn't why I got into Orks, let us be honest, and recently I've found myself unable to win any combats with Orks due to the combination of overwatch and challenges neutering the main potential. Something grotesque needs to happen for this though, since 40k 6th is all about shooting, so I doubt that it'll happen.
Charles Rampant wrote: I'd definitely like to be able to play Orks the way that I want to: in melee. Shooting isn't why I got into Orks, let us be honest, and recently I've found myself unable to win any combats with Orks due to the combination of overwatch and challenges neutering the main potential. Something grotesque needs to happen for this though, since 40k 6th is all about shooting, so I doubt that it'll happen.
I agree, orks is made for fightin! not shootin, I like the idea of "It will not die" for walkers and a 5+inv
Charles Rampant wrote: I'd definitely like to be able to play Orks the way that I want to: in melee. Shooting isn't why I got into Orks, let us be honest, and recently I've found myself unable to win any combats with Orks due to the combination of overwatch and challenges neutering the main potential. Something grotesque needs to happen for this though, since 40k 6th is all about shooting, so I doubt that it'll happen.
I third this. If I go shooty orks, I have no problem winning games, but as soon as I make any attempt at actually charging the enemy lines, I'm fighting a very steep uphill battle, and losing a lot more often than not. Because of this, my orks have been gathering a lot of dust in the last months, I didn't pick them up to play stand and shoot with them.
Charles Rampant wrote: I'd definitely like to be able to play Orks the way that I want to: in melee. Shooting isn't why I got into Orks, let us be honest, and recently I've found myself unable to win any combats with Orks due to the combination of overwatch and challenges neutering the main potential. Something grotesque needs to happen for this though, since 40k 6th is all about shooting, so I doubt that it'll happen.
And i 4th this.
Maybe they need to give all orks FNP on overwatch to lessen the odds of the overwatch totally screwing us over (but not by negating the rule all together) as well as give us something to prevent challenges unless we want it.
Yes, orks like to prove themselves so technically being able to avoid a challenge is unfluffy. How bout this for fluffy reasons to ignore a challenge?
"Orks like to prove themselves in the heat of battle. Challenging a single foe out and winning is indeed a feat to be proud of, but single-handedly killing a whole unit is an even greater feat. However some models the Orks deem worthy of a one on one battle, such as HQs or MCs. An Ork cannot deny a challenge from these units."
This would prevent any random characters from challenging them out by saying they are squishy and unworthy of the orks personal attention, but still holding "da big'unz" as a worthy foe. Basically means unless theres an MC involved or an HQ, our nob will always get his klaw off. FEAR US TERMIES!!!
Charles Rampant wrote: I'd definitely like to be able to play Orks the way that I want to: in melee. Shooting isn't why I got into Orks, let us be honest, and recently I've found myself unable to win any combats with Orks due to the combination of overwatch and challenges neutering the main potential. Something grotesque needs to happen for this though, since 40k 6th is all about shooting, so I doubt that it'll happen.
And i 4th this.
Maybe they need to give all orks FNP on overwatch to lessen the odds of the overwatch totally screwing us over (but not by negating the rule all together) as well as give us something to prevent challenges unless we want it.
Yes, orks like to prove themselves so technically being able to avoid a challenge is unfluffy. How bout this for fluffy reasons to ignore a challenge?
"Orks like to prove themselves in the heat of battle. Challenging a single foe out and winning is indeed a feat to be proud of, but single-handedly killing a whole unit is an even greater feat. However some models the Orks deem worthy of a one on one battle, such as HQs or MCs. An Ork cannot deny a challenge from these units."
This would prevent any random characters from challenging them out by saying they are squishy and unworthy of the orks personal attention, but still holding "da big'unz" as a worthy foe. Basically means unless theres an MC involved or an HQ, our nob will always get his klaw off. FEAR US TERMIES!!!
That's interesting; HQ choices would probably be changed to independent characters though. Obviously, most Independent characters are still going to eat a Nob, but rather that Destroyer Lord eat him than eat the boyz.
I think what I'd really like to see is Looted wagons should be given more options for customisation, such as the ability to buy higher AV values. After all, a looted wagons could be anything, from a Tau devilfish to a tough as nails Leman Russ battletank. So it's annoying they all have a universal AV of front armour 11, which is lets face it, pathetic when it houses a 70 point boomgun, plus you need to purchase ardcase and extra armour so it can fire if it gets a crew stunned result.
Failing that just Give them front armour AV12 for a happy medium between trucks which are made of cardboard and battlewagons which are tough but expensive.
Also perhaps more reliable anti-armour. The zzzap guns are too random in strength, rokkits are ok but suffer from terrible BS so you only tend to get 1 hit which needs a 5-6 for a penetration, and tankhunters are also a bit random and subject to riding around in a paper mache trukk which takes target priority. And most other weapons are just too weak to inflict any damage or suffer gets hot.
Jingles wrote: I think what I'd really like to see is Looted wagons should be given more options for customisation, such as the ability to buy higher AV values. After all, a looted wagons could be anything, from a Tau devilfish to a tough as nails Leman Russ battletank. So it's annoying they all have a universal AV of front armour 11, which is lets face it, pathetic when it houses a 70 point boomgun, plus you need to purchase ardcase and extra armour so it can fire if it gets a crew stunned result.
Failing that just Give them front armour AV12 for a happy medium between trucks which are made of cardboard and battlewagons which are tough but expensive.
Also perhaps more reliable anti-armour. The zzzap guns are too random in strength, rokkits are ok but suffer from terrible BS so you only tend to get 1 hit which needs a 5-6 for a penetration, and tankhunters are also a bit random and subject to riding around in a paper mache trukk which takes target priority. And most other weapons are just too weak to inflict any damage or suffer gets hot.
Agreed, even TL rokkits miss or when they do hit they do not pen. My main tank killer is still the PK however I’m so lucky to always roll a vehicle explodes roll killing half my trukk boyz (happened the last 3 times I used a pk to kill a vehicle) Looted wagons should have the same options of a BW or maybe even have the weapons of the tank in question with bs 2 and some fun rule like don’t press dat where the gun back fires, or targets a friendly unit or some other orky fun
rollawaythestone wrote: Can't see anti-challenge rules happening for Orks. They are supposed to be over-the-top wanting to prove their strength - the definition of wanting to challenge!
Boys probably don't need to change, rather, other things in the codex need to be made worthwhile in comparison.
What about, any challenge issued to an ork mob can be accepted by the character, and d6 other models who got over excited?
Fix Ghazzy's waaagh. Keep Lootas the same, and Make a Non FW Megadread as an MC. I'd like to see more diverse guns for a mek outside of the SAG and KMB. Badrukk as an HQ would be nice. I dig the model, won't buy it because of weak rules. Add a squig unit outside of bomb squigs. Add a Leader kan option where a Killa Kan can have a KFF. Make a waaagh give furious charge, FNP, And rage for one turn.
One bored Mekboy invents the Ork melta. The Zappy deffguns from DOW 2 appear in game.
Flashgitz cost the same and start with all the upgrades they can get now, and can be upgraded to S7, APD6-2 and Assault 3 for a pretty penny. Buff badrukk if needed.
Supa armor is introduced to give 3+ saves to certain units. Scrap armor is also introduced to give 5+ saves on the cheap.
Differing levels of Cyborkization is also introduced. Regular cybork gives 6++, 'Eavy gives 5++, Supa gives 4++ and Mega gives 3++.
Meganobz can take cybork as standard.
Twinlinked bigshootas become the standard gun for warbosses, Gazghkull gets a twinlinked Supashoota instead (it makes much more sense anyway)
Orky chainfists.
Chain choppas give AP values to ork melee.
Gazghkull gets Mega cybork armor and a likely price bump. On WAAAGHs he now has rampage, preferred enemy (Everything), hatred (everything!) and rage. And also said orky chainfist. Goodly price bump.
War Koptas are made part of the standard codex.
Looted wagons get a table and become very customizable, essentially becoming smaller battle wagons. .
Tank hunters for Tankbustaz.
Flakkadakka guns are now standard parts of the Codex.
Cheaper walkers.
Mega dreads are now standard.
The Boom gun replaces the Kill kannon on Battle wagons.
Trukk weapons are twinlinked by default.
Some kind of A-10 Warthog style ground attack aircraft is introduced. If basing it around a big gun makes it too similar to existing aircraft, rather have it be based on the SU-25 which uses a bigger but slower firing dual barelled autocannon and primarily achieves kills by rocket and thermobaric bomb spam rather than maverick missile+avenger spam.
Forgeworld Wartrakks are now standard.
Grot tanks are also standard.
Huge squiggoths are also standard and can be armored/cyborkified at a heavy cost.
Lootas get a bit of a price bump.
Weirdboyz get a better table for psychic powers.
More big gun types introduced.
Zzzap gun is fixed to not be so random as to be useless.
Waaagh! Now grants rage.
Stikk krak bomms are introduced.
Blitz Bommers are modified to actually do squat to vehicles.
Some adjustments are made to Burna bommaz so that they aren't crap next to Dakkajets.
Agreed, even TL rokkits miss or when they do hit they do not pen. My main tank killer is still the PK however I’m so lucky to always roll a vehicle explodes roll killing half my trukk boyz (happened the last 3 times I used a pk to kill a vehicle) Looted wagons should have the same options of a BW or maybe even have the weapons of the tank in question with bs 2 and some fun rule like don’t press dat where the gun back fires, or targets a friendly unit or some other orky fun
I agree powerclaws are the best Orky anti-tank weapon, particularly on a charge but it means diverting a whole mob to attack a vehicle wand wasting the rest of the mobs mass attack capabilities.
On another note I remember in the book "15 hours" about a Guardsman's short miserable life. The guard are constantly pestered by Gretchin Snipers, which is a feasible unit when you think about it. Grots are cowardly and sneaky little backstabbers. So Grot sniper units are a perfectly fluffy potential units, an their BS3 would make them fairly usable.
Not sure what a reasonable weapon would be though: S5 AP5 sniper weapon 1. With optional upgrade "Loudners" at 5 points a grot which increase the strength to 6 per gun?
I think, assuming the grot snipers would be adequately cheap, S4 would be enough. Pinning/Rending is already a nice combination and they can even glance/pen AV11 vehicles on sixes.
davou wrote: What about, any challenge issued to an ork mob can be accepted by the character, and d6 other models who got over excited?
Ultramarine Sgt: "In the name of the Emperor, I hereby challenge the leader of your band of filthy xenos to an honorable duel to the death!"
To be honest, I would love to see more squigs in there, possibly a giant, uncontrollable squig MC. Apart from that, I wouldn't mind seeing another Troops choice, or maybe even Madboyz!
Grot snipers, yes lets do that. More troops choices would be great right now its just boyz (and grots but lets face it, they are un used). Giving a squad a burna boy (much like how squads can have Big Shootas or RL) would also be helpful.
I think it would be awesome if orks worked like the GK does (continue reading, don't rage yet).
Grey Knights (as in the shiny beakies, not henchmen) all have access to all weaponry and upgrades, each unit just pays different amounts of points for them, and gets a different number of weapons.
So, we have burnaz, big shootaz, bazookas, deffgunz, tank hammers. Possible units:
Boyz: Get three weapons of their choice. Want to charge everything? Give them tank hammers. Want objective campers? Go deff gunz. Like the smell of napalm in the morning? Get some burnaz.
Mek mobs: Up to fifteen boyz, up to three of those may be meks with additional options. Every boy in the unit may take a special weapon. Basically this is what burnaz/lootaz are now, but you can now mix the unit however you see fit. Or give everyone a big shoota and show the world what dakka really means.
Nobz: As some fellow ork player once said: "If your nob wants your big shoota, you should give him your big shoota." Nobz should be allowed to pick any boy weapons in addition to their nob-only options, like PK, combi-weapons or the big choppa.
Deff dread: I want a deff dread with four deff gunz. Period. Battlewagon: We can mount flamers on a rumbling piece of looted junk, but not on the very pinnacle of mek engineering outside of super-heavies?
Storm boyz: Two special weapons per unit should make them a bit more interesting than boyz falling out of the sky. Especially tank hammers and burnaz might be cool here.
YES! So so many times i wish my Battlewagons had ramshackle! 20 boyz EASILY reduces down to 12-13 or even less when it explodes since it sufferes S4 hits instead of S3, not to mention the chance of not exploding at all even if you rolled an explode.
Also Ramshackle should let you tankshock/ram things. Would be HILARIOUS to have a deffrolla battlewagon ramshackle right into a vehicle or two before exploding
Jidmah wrote:I think it would be awesome if orks worked like the GK does (continue reading, don't rage yet).
Grey Knights (as in the shiny beakies, not henchmen) all have access to all weaponry and upgrades, each unit just pays different amounts of points for them, and gets a different number of weapons.
So, we have burnaz, big shootaz, bazookas, deffgunz, tank hammers. Possible units:
Boyz: Get three weapons of their choice. Want to charge everything? Give them tank hammers. Want objective campers? Go deff gunz. Like the smell of napalm in the morning? Get some burnaz.
Mek mobs: Up to fifteen boyz, up to three of those may be meks with additional options. Every boy in the unit may take a special weapon. Basically this is what burnaz/lootaz are now, but you can now mix the unit however you see fit. Or give everyone a big shoota and show the world what dakka really means.
Nobz: As some fellow ork player once said: "If your nob wants your big shoota, you should give him your big shoota." Nobz should be allowed to pick any boy weapons in addition to their nob-only options, like PK, combi-weapons or the big choppa.
Deff dread: I want a deff dread with four deff gunz. Period. Battlewagon: We can mount flamers on a rumbling piece of looted junk, but not on the very pinnacle of mek engineering outside of super-heavies?
Storm boyz: Two special weapons per unit should make them a bit more interesting than boyz falling out of the sky. Especially tank hammers and burnaz might be cool here.
I actually like this. I always did find it weird that orks had so many "specialized boyz" when they were the exact damn thing in all except 2 situations outside the gun they had (Stormboyz move faster and Kommandos have Move through Cover...which is pointless imo). It also annoying the crap out of me that Boyz and Nobz cant take flamers at all, and Nobz are solely limited to kombis.
Meganobz should also get more weapons to choose from. Being SNP(i.e. relentless with side effects) they should have access to other weapons that actually utilizes that. Deffguns or some new orky "heavy" weapon would be awesome. How bout: Boomstick - 30" Range, S6 AP3 Heavy 2. Aint got the strength to be broken, or the range, but good enough to put da hurtin on dem 'umies armor that we have so many issues with!
yeah, i hate how even after the whole 3rd edition debacle where orks turned into a shooty army, and GW had to "fix" that so that orks were choppy again.
now full circle, we are shooty again
I am hoping that orks are the codex that brings back choppy
Most of these have been repeated, but these are things that I think would be sweet to see in the new codex:
-The 6+ FNP rumor (Orks are supposed to be tough!)
-Since they took away the +1 to Initiative for FC, maybe +1 Initiative for calling a WAAAGH!
-Re-work on Ghazzgul's Prophet of the WAAAGH!
-Nobz lowered in points (I like the 16 point idea to match the nob option for boyz)
-Trukks AV being raised to ATLEAST 11/11/10 (They aren't THAT flimsy!)
-Looted Wagons to have better AV (They are stolen vehicles; they could be looted Leman Russes for crying out loud)
-Maybe make the Trukk's Big Shoota TL?
-Ramshackle being given to ALL ork vehicles! (It'd be hilarious and would benefit the army as a whole)
-Painboy as a seperate HQ -Tankbustas to have the Tank Hunter USR -Something to make sluggas sound like a better option to take than shootas (Orks are supposed to be fighty, not shooty!)
-More options to take for units (Boyz squads with a few burnas/rockits muahaha)
-Big Mek's KFF to give 5+ Invulv saves instead of cover (If not, then maybe allow the option to take better KFF's that provide better cover saves?)
-Maybe an option to take better Cybork bodies (I'm sure it'd be a hefty points cost to get a 4+ Invulv instead of a 5+ but it'd still be a nice option)
-Ork Warlord Traits chart
-More variety in Psychic abilties for Weirdboy (Maybe a 2d6 chart instead of a d6, or different charts to choose from)
-Introduction of a monstrous creature (With 6th edition and everyone getting monstrous creatures, maybe the new codex could have squiggoths as heavy support?)
Maybe not all of it should be included (or maybe it should... >) But it would be nice to see some of these things in the new codex IMO.
sco0terkid wrote: Most of these have been repeated, but these are things that I think would be sweet to see in the new codex:
-The 6+ FNP rumor (Orks are supposed to be tough!)
-Since they took away the +1 to Initiative for FC, maybe +1 Initiative for calling a WAAAGH!
-Re-work on Ghazzgul's Prophet of the WAAAGH!
-Nobz lowered in points (I like the 16 point idea to match the nob option for boyz)
-Trukks AV being raised to ATLEAST 11/11/10 (They aren't THAT flimsy!)
-Looted Wagons to have better AV (They are stolen vehicles; they could be looted Leman Russes for crying out loud)
-Maybe make the Trukk's Big Shoota TL?
-Ramshackle being given to ALL ork vehicles! (It'd be hilarious and would benefit the army as a whole)
-Painboy as a seperate HQ -Tankbustas to have the Tank Hunter USR -Something to make sluggas sound like a better option to take than shootas (Orks are supposed to be fighty, not shooty!)
-More options to take for units (Boyz squads with a few burnas/rockits muahaha)
-Big Mek's KFF to give 5+ Invulv saves instead of cover (If not, then maybe allow the option to take better KFF's that provide better cover saves?)
-Maybe an option to take better Cybork bodies (I'm sure it'd be a hefty points cost to get a 4+ Invulv instead of a 5+ but it'd still be a nice option)
-Ork Warlord Traits chart
-More variety in Psychic abilties for Weirdboy (Maybe a 2d6 chart instead of a d6, or different charts to choose from)
-Introduction of a monstrous creature (With 6th edition and everyone getting monstrous creatures, maybe the new codex could have squiggoths as heavy support?)
Maybe not all of it should be included (or maybe it should... >) But it would be nice to see some of these things in the new codex IMO.
Charles Rampant wrote: I'd definitely like to be able to play Orks the way that I want to: in melee. Shooting isn't why I got into Orks, let us be honest, and recently I've found myself unable to win any combats with Orks due to the combination of overwatch and challenges neutering the main potential. Something grotesque needs to happen for this though, since 40k 6th is all about shooting, so I doubt that it'll happen.
I feel your pain bro i want melee back as well, but saddy even if they release a new Ork codex dose not mean they will fix it. Look at the chaos codex. Korn Berserkers are dreadful there 22pts and still only have an AP 4 weapon, Daemon Princes 300pts not eternal warrior, Chaos Defilers 200pts there only av 12..
all the Choas shooting units got better
Bring back the old "Mob Up" rule
WAAAGH! lets every unit shoot twice not just the dakka jet and give all Orks rage for the turn +2 attacks
bring back the old choppa rule your opponent never get better then a 4+ save
Killa Kans have should have 3 hull poinst and deff dreads have 5 hull points
warbuggy in unit of 3-10
bikes should be 20pts
Kommandos gete stealth and shrouded
Trukks would be fuuny with 14 front 13 side and 10 rear armor but only get 1 hull point
limited ammo all Ork units only get 6 round of shooting but can use them all up in a single turn e.g. on 1st turn a unit of loota boyz can shoot 6d3 times and then there out of ammo or on 3rd turn a killa kan could shoot 6 grotzookas. my favorite would be Looted Wagon with a Boomgun
I suspect that GW will seek to move Orks towards something like the 2nd Edition incarnation. By this, I mean that we may well become a goofy shooting army with loads of unreliable and dangerous artillery and light vehicles. This would obviously be a shame (at least for me), and would remove a lot of the current theme of the army, but it also means that everyone would be rushing out to buy artillery and buggies, doubtless with new shiny models...
Here's what I'd like to see (some of it's probably already listed rofl)
Trukks get twin-linked guns as options
Wagons come closed top
Ork boy squads need to get flamers (3 for every ten, make them cost the same as a rokkit launcha)
Make choppas reduce enemy armor save by a small amount (1 in normal combat, 2 if charging)
Make Big Choppas do the same, but to a greater extent. Possibly make it so they reduce by 2 at all times (I'm not too sure about a big choppa turning a space marine's armor save into a trashy ork armor save). Possibly let it reduce save by 3 if it's a warboss assaulting with it then (no one i know uses a big choppa with their boss)
Fleeing ork boy squads should be able to join other ork boy squads if they come in contact with them.
Give some benefit to help make over-watch not so devastating to orks.
Make 'ard boyz a real unit. Ten points a pop, maybe only twenty man squads? Give them rage or something ork-fluffy
Wazdakka needs skilled rider
Mek-boyz need to be made more useful
Gretchin shotgunners (yes, we need them. because... reasons, i guess. shut up)
Nazdreg!!!
Squiggoths please!
Beamy deffguns for lootas.
attack squigs for nobz
reduced nob price. Aside from having the extra wound, they're not really any better than a khorne berzerker, who has a better weapon skill and much better armor by default, along with better rules. 16 points or so per, please lol Moar power weapon options!!!
More warboss upgrades!
Make me want to use kommando's lol That's my two-bits!
Keep boyz the way they are points and stat wise, but give 6+ fnp Cheaper Lootas or more durable (comes with eavy armor?)
Same for burnas as lootas
Boss poles for Meganobz or higher LD for nobz as a whole
AV 11 Trukks
Better Stormboyz (similar changes as with lootas and burnas)
Keep boyz the way they are points and stat wise, but give 6+ fnp Cheaper Lootas or more durable (comes with eavy armor?)
Same for burnas as lootas
Boss poles for Meganobz or higher LD for nobz as a whole
AV 11 Trukks
Better Stormboyz (similar changes as with lootas and burnas)
II like the idea about raising Meganobz and Nobz LD. As of right now, they are way too expensive points-wise and come in too small of squads to take advantage of Mob-Rule.
Maybe raise the LD to 8 for Nobz (Since they are basically Ork squad leaders) and 9 for Meganobz? (They are Ork squad leaders who feel pretty damn confident with their 2+ armor save and Power Klaw?)
I don't know about the Lootas/Burnas idea. Lootas are bound to get nerfed (Some rumor with Gets Hot? HORRIBLE) which (I would think) would reduce them in points-cost.
But giving them a 4+ armor save might shoot that price back up again, if not higher than before. D:
I also liked the previous statement of giving Wazdakka Skilled Rider.
Also, and this has been stated before, but power klaws need to be cheaper. I would say make it like the Flash Gitz at 15 points. (I don't have a codex in front of me, so I may be wrong on that. But I think one unit can get a power klaw for 15 points instead of the usual 25 points). I feel like this would solve the issue that people seem to have with Nobz. Nobz can already hold themselves up in a challenge, but people seem to think that they always die in challenges and that they are a waste of points. Well, this would allow Nobz to still hold up in a fight and, if it happens to die, it wouldn't be as much of a "points-waste." That OR include "Overkill" from WHFB. It would benefit all armies, including Orks
I want a giant box cobbled together out of wood and metal that falls out of the sky similar to a drop pod without the guidance system that is an assault vehicle with room for 20 occupants. Call it Da Drop Box.
~efficiency - Yes, I like our only widespread power weapon to be a goddamn klaw, because thats how Orks roll. Yes I like not having a reliable long ranged anti tank, because thats how Orks roll. Yes I like not having AP3 shooting, because thats how Orks roll
Whats this? An army with weaknesses? Shock and f****n horror. We can have ten klaws in one unit, or fifteen burnas in another, but only one klaw and no burnas in our boys mobs where they're really needed? Great! Thats how Orks *should* be!
What I do want
~Goddamn Painboss is now a thing
~Clan Specific units, restrictions, etc, such as;
~~Weirdboys available as a 1-3 Elites choice for Snakebite armies, or can replace Nob Leaders because wow, now people will *want* to play Snakebites.
~~Goffs can have one unit of Nobs as troops, or can perhaps take a second Nob leader for each boys mob
~~Deathskulls have better/more numerous Lootas, Looted Wagons, Wrekka boyz/wagons that can turn wrecked vehicles into more Looted Wagons
~Burna/Blitza bommas not gak
~A WAAAGH that actually does something (I often just forget to use it, its that bad)
~Flash Gitz as Elites, less rubbish, Lootas as Heavies, maybe "get hot".
~Squadron rules for some basic Orky vehicle, like a Looted Wagon - why the hell can the Imperial Guard outnumber an Ork vehicle force?
~A number of the forgeworld vehicles, IE the Big Trak, Attak Fighta, Grot Bombs, Grot Tanks/Megatank, and the Warkopta, now in the main 'dex
~A Gretchin HQ, that bars you from taking Ork units but unlocks various upgrades for Gretchin units, Grot tanks, and so on
I also love that idea about the "Mek Mobs" or whatever, where you can mix and match burnas, rokkits, and what not.
Agent_Tremolo wrote: I think the best way to go with trukks is increasing their transport capacity. As things stand now a lucky overwatch can wipe out the entire unit.
I agree with that. With current rules, bumping trukks to 20 and battlewagons to 30 models transport capacity wouldn't be a problem, as most of them die in explosions and overwatch. However, placing them in case of an explosion/wreck would be
From wrote: I want a giant box cobbled together out of wood and metal that falls out of the sky similar to a drop pod without the guidance system that is an assault vehicle with room for 20 occupants. Call it Da Drop Box.
In ork fluff, this is called a Rokk. Take a random astroid in space, put some dakka and boyz on it, drop it on the enemy. Then all boyz that survived start clobbering the enemy.
Alternatively, you take a space hulk, build it into a kustom ork fortress of doom, and then drop it on the enemy with thousands of boyz inside. You didn't think orks would make planetfall by actually landing a transport or something, did you?
~efficiency - Yes, I like our only widespread power weapon to be a goddamn klaw, because thats how Orks roll. Yes I like not having a reliable long ranged anti tank, because thats how Orks roll. Yes I like not having AP3 shooting, because thats how Orks roll
Kind of disagree. I do want efficiency. But I want orky efficiency, not space marines. The powerklaw can kill anything. That's efficient enough to me, as long as it actually gets to kill anything. However, I want reliable short-range anti-tank, as in tank hammers or tank busta bombs. Or Deff rollas, bomb squigs, wrecking balls, power klaws, dreadnought close combat weapons. We already got these, however, in 5th and 6th the most used anti-tank across all ork armies have been twin-linked bazookas, deffgunz and now kannons. Which means that the platforms carrying these orky anti-tank weapons need to be more efficient, so they can actually compete against lascannons, railguns, lances and other long-range anti-tank which are cowardly sitting in the back, while being able to take down armor starting turn 1.
Orks used to offset the natural unbalance between melee and ranged combat by hitting the enemy lines so hard, that shooty armies dreaded the very moment it happened and went out of their way to prevent the orks from arriving. This is now gone, and we need it back.
Whats this? An army with weaknesses? Shock and f****n horror. We can have ten klaws in one unit, or fifteen burnas in another, but only one klaw and no burnas in our boys mobs where they're really needed? Great! Thats how Orks *should* be!
I heavily disagree. That last thing I can imagine is orks arranging their army by weapon in an orderly fashion. If anything, the new codex should encourage mixing weapons across all units, because any ork will grab any weapon they can get their hands on.
The powerklaw is a different story though. If you ain't strong enough to carry it, you don't get. You probably need to be strong enough to kick in half your mob's teef to afford it anyways.
Special issue wargear for special orks is fine. Artificially preventing boyz from taking weapons which other boyz can carry is stoopid.
I mean it is a bit pathetic really, I think the ability to re-roll a charge has helped me maybe once. I only use it to give my dakka jet twice it's firepower on the turn it arrives before it gets shot down.
Perhaps if a WAAAGH gave orks +1 attack for a turn or FNP (or 1 better FNP if the rumours are true) It might be worth using.
zammerak wrote: No, I have not heard anything about a new Ork codex but I was wondering what my fellow ork players would like to see in the new codex?
I would like to see some kind of anti-challenge rule for my nobs, sick of them being killed by challenges .
What do you all think?
What I'd love is the design /play test teams was to use this sneaky idea of asking "us" the games forums what ideas would like to see,
Yes a lot of people when asked, want X Y or Z to make there army better, but a lot of the ideas here are funky/cool Not OVER powering just fluffy. And that's What I want.
sure we all can Dice hammer the codex and only use the best, but if a codex had special characters that unlocked units, eg
grot HQ = no orks but cool grot tanks etc. grot troops get D6 ramdom weapons in unit (plasma gun,metlagun,hand flamer, bolter etc)
Different clan leaders like the chaos marks. but no mixing marks , death skulls = lootas as troops Gof etc ( example )
Goffs= extra leadership, Bad moons = meganob troops, Blood axes= Kommandos as troops
Mek Hq = meganobs can tellport in.
upgradeable looted Vehicles Like the old days taking a Leman russ, BUT more ORKNESS
All I really want:
Slugga Boyz 5 points.
Waaagh rewrite: disallows Overwatch, re-roll 1's on charge distance, assault to-hit and to-wound.
Lootas reduced to d2 shots.
Total Weird boy rework.
Painboyz.
Why reduce loota shots? They would see a lot less play if anything else in the codex could actually do something similar (i.e. efficiently kill something besides light infantry) or if there were more good elite choices.
Right now they are almost equal to autocannon heavy weapon teams, and those don't exactly see a lot of play.
Daemons work as an assault army right now because almost every unit but troops can move 12 inches base. They are hideously fast, so are able to actually get into CC.
The amount of firepower available to most 'modern' armies is disgusting. It only gets worse in rapid fire range. Tau firewarriors with rapid fire and an ethereal, castled correctly, can absolutely devastate any ork mob that gets into range. And lets not even talk about what DA can do at 24 inches with a bolter banner.
Orks aren't daemons, their whole style is massive blocks of infantry slowly grinding up the field. The enemy shoots, and shoots, and shoots, but simply can't thin out the green wave, until the orks are in charge range, a massive WAAAAAAGH is given across the ork line, and they crash into the gunline in a fury of choppa and slugga.
That can't happen right now because orks don't have the durability to survive the close range fire, nor do game mechanics support this.
I don't want more boyz on the table. You can already COVER the table in boyz, no problem. Getting more boyz is a financial burden, a physical burden, and a rules burden. Boyz are almost as expensive as space marines, model per model, but you need 3-4x as many. More boyz also means more models to move. Leaning over a table and moving 180 boyz is not an enjoyable experience on my back. Finally, having more boyz on the table only makes games take even longer. Most players will need 3-4 hours to finish a game with that many boyz.
I'd much rather boyz stay the same cost, but actually get a durability bump to have them survive the onslaught of close ranged fire. Second, I'd like to see a rule where orkish casualties\, are removed from the rear, during the shooting phase, not from the front. This allows orks to actually cover ground, rather than endlessly move forward, lose 2-3 inches as the first and second rank of boyz are removed. Since this only occurs during the shooting phase, this still gives armies overwatch a chance to still kill them out of charge range during that key point of a charge.
Finally, as everyone knows, everything in the ork list, except for the boyz, needs to get cheaper. Boyz are the only point efficient thing (other than big gunz now), that they have to do all the heavy lifting in the list. I'd really like to see a list where we, like the other races, have to make a hard choice between troops and other slots. Right now, its a no brainer that you max your troops, and pretty much ignore all the other choices in the army.
Orks are an assault army that doesn't work without expensive battlewagons. I'd like to see a return to greater flexability.
Some good observations, Goresaw. I also think that Kult of Speed is in critical condition right now. I tried it repeatedly at the start of 6th, and it just doesn't work. At all. And that makes me sad, because I am SO BORED of moving massive mobs around the place.
I'd just like them to not get owned in assaults!
Was rumours of feel no pain (6+) for all models as a standard! Sounds good to
Me! Fits with their cannon really.
As for additions, just more options for nobs, like the ability to take pretty much any hardware!
I'd like a squad all with big shootas or rokkits!
As for previous comments about BWagons. Ate you crazy, the wagon is immense! 14F armour!! Deff rolls, 2big shoots! Smash that into Emmy ranks for 120pts?!?!! KRUNCHY!!!
I love battlewagons and I think they are fairly priced, but I wish that they either were not as long on the sides (as it is easy to hit Side armor as opposed to front) or you could take them as dedicated transports for more than just nobs. Im sick of only being able to load up boyz into 3 wagons :(
Billagio wrote: I love battlewagons and I think they are fairly priced, but I wish that they either were not as long on the sides (as it is easy to hit Side armor as opposed to front) or you could take them as dedicated transports for more than just nobs. Im sick of only being able to load up boyz into 3 wagons :(
They're useful and fair-priced only as long as you kit them as "battle taxis", but they were meant to be a versatile unit able to take different loadouts to perform different roles. Right now they excel as assault transports but suck at pretty much everything else they can equip for: Battle tank, close support... A couple upgrades and they slide into Land Raider territory, at half their efficiency.
But yes, making them Dedicated Transport options for other elites than nobs would be great.
I think it would be cool if instead of burnas and lootas having the option to take meks to just have unit in elites or troops or as a royal court type that was just meks to really keep a vehicle going. Also they could add some sort of non forge world artillery unit like big trakk w/supa kannon and perhaps some kind of grott specialist units like grot heavy weapon teams: 4 grots on a base firing a rokkit launcha or something or some kind of grot infiltrator unit that has anti vehicle grenades, basically just more reliable anti tank in general other than PK nobz.
Mad Boss Morgrot wrote: I'd just like them to not get owned in assaults!
Was rumours of feel no pain (6+) for all models as a standard! Sounds good to
Me! Fits with their cannon really.
As for additions, just more options for nobs, like the ability to take pretty much any hardware!
I'd like a squad all with big shootas or rokkits!
As for previous comments about BWagons. Ate you crazy, the wagon is immense! 14F armour!! Deff rolls, 2big shoots! Smash that into Emmy ranks for 120pts?!?!! KRUNCHY!!!
The battlewagon was the perfect ork transport in 5th, if you ignore the hideous inefficient killkannon. In 6th it kills half its passengers when exploding, which puts a huge damper on them, especially when transporting valuable cargo like tankbustaz or burnaz. Even a surviving boyz mob can hardly take on any unit in the game anymore. And experience shows that battlewagons are lot more likely to explode than wreck due to losing all four hull points.
I really hope they do go back and look at some of the better bits of 3E Orks. They could also look closely at the more fun bits of FW. I'd like:
Seconded/ continuing thoughts from previous posters:
Painboss HQ, or possibly as a 1-3 (free) choice attached to mobs.
Tankbustas with TH. Seriously.
Choppas either ap4 or giving -1 to saves. Ditto on Big Choppas. The old Choppa rule was honestly too good, I had zero respect for MEQ.
Armor Plates as a 6++ again.
I like FNP 6+.
WAAAGH really needs to be fixed, go back to the old rule.
Mob Up Rule was sweet but they seem to be moving away from mixed saves, which this tended to create.
Burnas were great when they had like a half dozen or four to six guys with burnas and some meks. I always ran them up as fire support behind my kan wall (with KFF) and they were a great one-two combination. Paying for every boy to have a burna seems like overkill. Same with Tankbustas, four was a good number.
Kommandos MAN and Flash Gits need an overhaul.
Univeral Ramshackle on all non-walker, non-flyers.
I would LOVE to see a great Warlord Traits table, especially if there's one table for each clan.
Krak Stikk Bomms in units?
As far as challenges go, I could see one of a couple of options (for the record, I hate the rule in general as it highly favors certain armies and is useless/detrimental to others).
1: Ork characters may not be challenged except by independent characters on the first turn (but may and in fact, must do so themselves when on the charge), representing our dim-witted hero taking the measure of the challenger to decide if he constitutes a proper challenge, or is too weedy to bother with.
2: Dirty tricks (representing low blow, attack squigs ("SIC 'EM!"), the WAAAGH, generally poor concept of honorable combat)- Ork characters benefit from the unengaged watchers rule (whatever it's called) on the first round of combat for all boyz in the mob even if those models are engaged in combat.
I don't think they need a lot of changes but they do need to Krump things far more reliably than they do now rather than relying so much on Dakka. I also support any random table that makes me chuckle and is mostly good for my boyz.
I like the idea that the boys lend 'moral' support to the challenge even if they are engaged in combat.I think that gives a very characterful bonus to the nob involved.
I kinda hate how back in 3rd edition (IIRC?) when they introduced the choppa rule where it make 4+ the max save against choppas, because somehow a CC army was a shooty army back then... and that isnt right for orks...
not saying that rule in particular needs to come back, but how in the heck did we come full circle to the point where orks are crappy in close combat AGAIN
serously, I hope there is something in sotre to make orks viable close combat army again.
Billagio wrote: I love battlewagons and I think they are fairly priced, but I wish that they either were not as long on the sides (as it is easy to hit Side armor as opposed to front) or you could take them as dedicated transports for more than just nobs. Im sick of only being able to load up boyz into 3 wagons :(
They're useful and fair-priced only as long as you kit them as "battle taxis", but they were meant to be a versatile unit able to take different loadouts to perform different roles. Right now they excel as assault transports but suck at pretty much everything else they can equip for: Battle tank, close support... A couple upgrades and they slide into Land Raider territory, at half their efficiency.
But yes, making them Dedicated Transport options for other elites than nobs would be great.
Yeah thats basically how I run the, Deffrolla, RPJ and a Big Shoota for 120 points. Pretty cheap for what you get, I just hate that open topped dosent get -1 str anymore to explosions on passengers.
Yeah thats basically how I run the, Deffrolla, RPJ and a Big Shoota for 120 points. Pretty cheap for what you get, I just hate that open topped dosent get -1 str anymore to explosions on passengers.
So how is open topped even helpful anymore?? Besides no access points?
Lootas getting Gets Hot would ruin the unit even if they gave them 'Eavy Armor or a -5 pt cost. You WILL lose about half of your unit every time you fire because they fire soooo much gak. Probably the only unit aside from random troops with troop guns that GetsHot is a horrible, horrible thing not just annoying.
Marines? 3+ armor is pretty good odds to survive it. Tau? What has Gets Hot that you actually use that isnt multi-wounded and 2+? Dont even know if Eldar/Nidz have any Orks KMB has it, but who uses it?
Tau can make a single unit fire Gets Hot if theyre close enough. Unless its a huge ball of troops or Lootas, it wont make the opponent think twice about shooting. I did it to a huge ball of cultists, he fired ~20-25 shots i think and lost 2 dudes. so what, theyre cultists lol. I wouldnt fire my Lootas if that happened to them. ___________________________________________ I say instead of giving us the Squiggoth for our MC, they instead revamp the walkers.
Deffdreads: Now a MC with T7 and 3+ armor, 4 wounds. Has a special rule allowing it to fire up to 4 weapons, no longer comes with a stock DCCW, requires 2 but can take up to 4 weapon options (including the DCCW). Add Extremely Bulky (WEEE DREADS IN A TRUKK!!). Also Fearless and is affected by WAAAAAGH! Killakans: NOT a MC, but instead is close: -No longer has stock DCCW, but can take 2 upgrade options. -Can fire 2 weapons -T5, 2 wounded models with a 3+ save. -Bulky special rule. -Relentless -Fearless (NOTE: They are still not MC status because they lack Fear and Smash, which is important)
This would give them a much needed defensive boost so they can actually get somewhere, and also opens some more options. Without any DCCW they can still make melee attacks, but are using base strength now and kans have no ap. But kans are usually a shooting platform anyway, so now its DUAL GROTZOOKAS! muhahhaha lol Since they are not vehicles, they can be transported. A trukk can wheel around a Deffdread, or 3 Killakans, giving them a good boost up the board (just take 10 Boyz with a dedicated transport and dont start the game with them in it, yes thats legal you just cant have another unit start in it, and have the boyz camp backfield objectives). My biggest complaint about our walkers is theyre geared for close range shooting or melee, and its impossible to get them there without a LOT of luck
if they get nerfed at all i'd see it in points not effectiveness. They weaken the strength, no point in taking it as we have tons of S5-6 options, the AP doesnt matter as it is (i think ive denied any save with them once? theres always a cover save since we are a hordy army and give our opponents Intervening Model cover), and if you give them Gets Hot or cut their shots down we will ignore them because now theyre pointless.
Actually if they made it straight up Heavy 2 instead of Heavy D3, theyd be used. Now its decent dakka and no chances of "Daaaaamn...i really needed more than 10 shots right now" at the cost of "OOOO LOTSA DAKKA!" lol.
Even if they were reduced to 10pts but were Heavy 1, i wouldnt use them. With ork BS, youre going to hit 3 of those 10 hits on average and you never pen armor with it.
After everyone and their squig bought 45 of them (which equals 12 Boxes of Lootaz/Burnaz), you can bet your bosspole that they are going to be overcosted and/or worse in our next codex.
Despite the impression you get from the high amount of talented converters and kitbashers here, most people actually just buy lootaz instead of building their own, GW probably already made as much money from them as possible.
If in doubt look at fire dragons, razorbacks, flamers of tzeench or broadsides.
-Waaagh! Needs to be reworked
-Lootas will probably get nerfed, and I think it will probably be a matter of points
-A way to buff Dreads without making them MCs -A few options to take the sting out of overwatch--I think a trukk/bw upgrade that allows units assaulting out of the transport to ignore overwatch would be nifty
-I personally like the idea of trukks getting junk better then making them AV11, it seems more thematic somehow
And, overall, restoring Orks restoring the assault power of orks
The alien Codices have lately been giving out some rather powerful and characterful army wide abilities like Supporting Fire and Ethereal buffs for Tau and Battle Focus for Eldar. For Orks, I would nominate Mobbing Up. Considering the poor armour saves of Orks, and how assaulting is riskier in this edition, it makes sense that there should be a means for them to absorb casualties. They should also be able to get an Initiative bonus when charging. It is neither fluffy nor helpful in-game to have a horde of Orks reach a line of Guardsmen then stand there waiting to be hit on the head. Orks swinging at the same time as Necrons and Fire Warriors? Nope, sorry, I just don't buy it.
Make Kanz more survivable. Either give them 3HP or follow the route of FW Grot Tanks and give them an invulnerable save to represent how a shot is more likely to just blast off some random bit of non-essential scrap. I'd also be happy if this was an upgrade that could be bought for any walker.
An Ork-specific psychic discipline and access to rulebook disciplines. Biomancy and Pyromancy would fit particularly well.
More blast weapons. I don't buy the idea that Orks would be satisfied with the bog-standard krak rokkit they're limited to now.
Dare I say it...? Orks to get either STR 4 or I3 as standard (or both ). They should be the melee army.
Speaking of, I would absolutely love being able to take Deff Dreads in mobs of 1-3. I think that would solve all the current problems with them. Killa Kans could be kicked up to 1-5 to compensate for only having 2 Hull Points.
Jidmah wrote: After everyone and their squig bought 45 of them (which equals 12 Boxes of Lootaz/Burnaz), you can bet your bosspole that they are going to be overcosted and/or worse in our next codex.
Despite the impression you get from the high amount of talented converters and kitbashers here, most people actually just buy lootaz instead of building their own, GW probably already made as much money from them as possible.
If in doubt look at fire dragons, razorbacks, flamers of tzeench or broadsides.
The thing is though all of those examples were CRAZY good, not just good.
Lootas lack that level of presence. Theyre probably a notch above Good unit quality, which is nowhere near "You are a total idiot for not taking as many as you can" type good.
What tau, allied or straight, didnt have 3 broadsides? None. For 260 or so points they clobbered EVERYTHING except sheer numbers. They needed a nerf, but i think they went too far on it personally.
If they nerf the Loota to the same level so noone takes them (Broadsides atleast they gave an alternative role they do fine in), they better buff the rest of the codex like crazy. I can easily believe Lootas are the reason orks are even playable right now.
lots of stuff is needed, maybe a slightly less random wierdboy for one... but there is one thing that orcs really really need. and that's some sort of I buff when they charge again. 30 orks could charge a normal unit of GH and i'd be surprised if they came out of it alive. that ain't right.
Jidmah wrote: After everyone and their squig bought 45 of them (which equals 12 Boxes of Lootaz/Burnaz), you can bet your bosspole that they are going to be overcosted and/or worse in our next codex. Despite the impression you get from the high amount of talented converters and kitbashers here, most people actually just buy lootaz instead of building their own, GW probably already made as much money from them as possible.
If in doubt look at fire dragons, razorbacks, flamers of tzeench or broadsides.
The thing is though all of those examples were CRAZY good, not just good. Lootas lack that level of presence. Theyre probably a notch above Good unit quality, which is nowhere near "You are a total idiot for not taking as many as you can" type good.
What tau, allied or straight, didnt have 3 broadsides? None. For 260 or so points they clobbered EVERYTHING except sheer numbers. They needed a nerf, but i think they went too far on it personally.
If they nerf the Loota to the same level so noone takes them (Broadsides atleast they gave an alternative role they do fine in), they better buff the rest of the codex like crazy. I can easily believe Lootas are the reason orks are even playable right now.
I sort of disagree here, I never take lootas instead I choose Deffkoptas with twin-linked rokkits and put them in reserve to outflank and my army is doing just fine tbh .
On a side note I would rather have a bigger mega dredd plastic kit instaed that would be a MC than a big squig imo.
What actually works is heavily influenced by who you play and what army they are playing. If I'd go to one of my stores around 3 pm I could pretty much toss up whatever units I feel like and beat a kid playing one of the store armies into the dust. If I play my friends or some store veterans on saturday/veterans night, I better bring the most competitive army I can muster.
I could list all the advantages of lootaz over deff koptaz, but that would bore us both, and I don't want to force something on you that you don't like to play anyways.
Just think about this:
What other unit besides lootaz is able to reliably score first blood during turn one without the cooperation of your opponent? If you can't do that, you are giving a whole VP away for free.
I think if they want to readjust Lootas it'll end up being a strength reduction and a shift to Heavy Support. And then give them Lascannon equivalents, potentially with Gets Hot!, as an optional upgrade for free or 5pts a model.
Jidmah wrote: Which would pretty much be the same as flash gits
Speaking of, I was thinking, it might not be a bad idea idea to make Da Kaptin an HQ, and give him a Flash Git bodyguard. Either that or give gits a dedicated transport of some kind, or the ability to take a battlewagon.
As for lootas, I'd say keep them as is, except maybe give them an option to be skyfire/interceptor for a reduction to D2 shots? We need something for anti flyer besides the ADL and snap firing lol's.
I think by now GW has made quite clear by now that nothing besides fortifications will ever get Skyfire/Interceptor as combination ever again. Both tau and eldar were prime candidates for that, and neither got it. However, I can see lootaz gaining skyfire permanently, which would murder most planes, but reduce their effectiveness against ground.
Jidmah wrote: I think by now GW has made quite clear by now that nothing besides fortifications will ever get Skyfire/Interceptor as combination ever again. Both tau and eldar were prime candidates for that, and neither got it. However, I can see lootaz gaining skyfire permanently, which would murder most planes, but reduce their effectiveness against ground.
Riptides can have both Interceptor and Skyfire, as can Crisis Battlesuits.
Jidmah wrote: What actually works is heavily influenced by who you play and what army they are playing. If I'd go to one of my stores around 3 pm I could pretty much toss up whatever units I feel like and beat a kid playing one of the store armies into the dust. If I play my friends or some store veterans on saturday/veterans night, I better bring the most competitive army I can muster.
I could list all the advantages of lootaz over deff koptaz, but that would bore us both, and I don't want to force something on you that you don't like to play anyways.
Just think about this:
What other unit besides lootaz is able to reliably score first blood during turn one without the cooperation of your opponent? If you can't do that, you are giving a whole VP away for free.
Grot Bomms can do it. They have pros and cons as compared to Lootas but they can do it. Notably, because of the bogus barrage rules theres no way for the other guy to hide his fragile transport short of keeping it off the board
Juvieus Kaine wrote: I think if they want to readjust Lootas it'll end up being a strength reduction and a shift to Heavy Support. And then give them Lascannon equivalents, potentially with Gets Hot!, as an optional upgrade for free or 5pts a model.
I really don't want this. Call me old fashioned but I like the game better when the various army lists have strengths and weaknesses. I suppose the recent OP nonsense and allies shenanigans craps all over that anyway though...
Jidmah wrote: After everyone and their squig bought 45 of them (which equals 12 Boxes of Lootaz/Burnaz), you can bet your bosspole that they are going to be overcosted and/or worse in our next codex.
Despite the impression you get from the high amount of talented converters and kitbashers here, most people actually just buy lootaz instead of building their own, GW probably already made as much money from them as possible.
If in doubt look at fire dragons, razorbacks, flamers of tzeench or broadsides.
A squiggoth would be badass.
With lots of dakka options.
Some kind of deathroller style charge.
A large troop capacity up on the howda.
Some kind of crazy once a game charge accross the board move.
ridiculously hard to kill
Hilariously unpredictable (as orks should be)
Every unit will have per-model weapon tables to roll, as well as what their special rules are, because this will reflect the fickleness of orks, may be today they will fight with a choppa/big shoota, but tomorrow they might go with an umbrella/shoe lace, there is just no telling.
Also the preparation stage will take hours just watching the ork player rolls dice and writing stuffs down, better yet with orks vs orks.
The ability to strap a rocket to the back of any ork vehicle, that allows them to make a one time only "Push da' red button!" move, where they roll a dice, on a 2+ they move 18 inches in a straight line, tankshocking anything they come into contact with, on a 1, they explode spectacularly, and scatter like a shot-down flyer.
Why? Not only would it be hilarious, but ork's need to be more mobile, in the world of turn 2 charges, and transport's being obsolete, the ability to have a "One and done" vehicle that rocket's forward, allowing a small unit to get into combat, rather than -having- to rely on having enough models to get across the board.
The ability to strap a rocket to the back of any ork vehicle, that allows them to make a one time only "Push da' red button!" move, where they roll a dice, on a 2+ they move 18 inches in a straight line, tankshocking anything they come into contact with, on a 1, they explode spectacularly, and scatter like a shot-down flyer.
Why? Not only would it be hilarious, but ork's need to be more mobile, in the world of turn 2 charges, and transport's being obsolete, the ability to have a "One and done" vehicle that rocket's forward, allowing a small unit to get into combat, rather than -having- to rely on having enough models to get across the board.
Agreed, I miss the 5th ed days where trukks could move 12, 18 flat out and 24 on a road. now they can only move 6 if you want to bail out and assult
They could give Orks rules to be more 5th edition like:
* Neverending hordes - take casualties from the back (or Ork player choice) - let's us put our Nobz up front again, stops overwatch from increasing charge distance and make sure boyz will get to strike in combat.
* Ramshackle vehicles - allow boyz in open top vehicles to dismount and assault after cruising speed (maybe only dismount 3", require dangerous terrain test and/or act as difficult terrain/reduce initiative). Potentially add the 5++ junk save.
Arakasi wrote: They could give Orks rules to be more 5th edition like:
* Neverending hordes - take casualties from the back (or Ork player choice) - let's us put our Nobz up front again, stops overwatch from increasing charge distance and make sure boyz will get to strike in combat.
* Ramshackle vehicles - allow boyz in open top vehicles to dismount and assault after cruising speed (maybe only dismount 3", require dangerous terrain test and/or act as difficult terrain/reduce initiative). Potentially add the 5++ junk save.
agreed.
And current Ramshakkle is pretty useless anyway, at AV10 they usually take 2 or 3 penetration hits, and as they are open topped if it's an AP1 weapon the vehicle explodes on a 4+, and as each explosion requires a dice to be rolled and choose the highest it will probably apply the standard explosion on a 4+ anyway.
Arakasi wrote: They could give Orks rules to be more 5th edition like:
* Neverending hordes - take casualties from the back (or Ork player choice) - let's us put our Nobz up front again, stops overwatch from increasing charge distance and make sure boyz will get to strike in combat.
* Ramshackle vehicles - allow boyz in open top vehicles to dismount and assault after cruising speed (maybe only dismount 3", require dangerous terrain test and/or act as difficult terrain/reduce initiative). Potentially add the 5++ junk save.
agreed.
And current Ramshakkle is pretty useless anyway, at AV10 they usually take 2 or 3 penetration hits, and as they are open topped if it's an AP1 weapon the vehicle explodes on a 4+, and as each explosion requires a dice to be rolled and choose the highest it will probably apply the standard explosion on a 4+ anyway.
Feel no pain for all orks. Not as an upgrade, but a rule. In fluff they are pretty tough. But any thing takes them down. even LASGUNS. I know they get a t shirt armor save, but FnP makes sense. Not for Gretchen, just orks.
martin74 wrote: Feel no pain for all orks. Not as an upgrade, but a rule. In fluff they are pretty tough. But any thing takes them down. even LASGUNS. I know they get a t shirt armor save, but FnP makes sense. Not for Gretchen, just orks.
I agree 100% and a mad doc could maybe make it a 4+ or 3+ FNP
martin74 wrote: Feel no pain for all orks. Not as an upgrade, but a rule. In fluff they are pretty tough. But any thing takes them down. even LASGUNS. I know they get a t shirt armor save, but FnP makes sense. Not for Gretchen, just orks.
Yuck. No thanks. They are already Toughness 4, and orks roll too many dice as it it is. You would have to boost the cost of basic orks too.
martin74 wrote: Feel no pain for all orks. Not as an upgrade, but a rule. In fluff they are pretty tough. But any thing takes them down. even LASGUNS. I know they get a t shirt armor save, but FnP makes sense. Not for Gretchen, just orks.
Tankbustas, Kommandos, Burnas, all need better armor. Not Lootas because they're already powerful enough.Nobz and Flash gitz cheaper. Nobz PK cheaper. Moar and Better Ork Vehicles. I personally don't want a Wazdakka model, I want the challenge to build one of my own. Perhaps option for a 4+ invul for HQ choices. Moar toyz for Warboss/Nobz. Cheaper Bike Boyz. 25 points per model? What up wit dat?. nob upgrade for Koptas, Burna boyz, Tankbustas, Kommandos, Stormboyz all cheaper. Option for stormboyz to take "eavy armor. Squiggoth. Ork Buildings. Painboys can heal your Warlord if he joins the unit, 1 wound per turn and the painboy and Warlord must not have moved. Grotsnik can heal anything in the same fashion Ork warlord Traits.
are there any rumors at all whether the models, particularly the standard Boyz, will get a refresher?
I quit the game in 2002 and handed my Chaos army to my brother.
I want to get back in and give Orks a try but it seems the models haven't been updated since 3rd edition? Kinda a bummer.
as much as i like the special character models, along with nobs and heavy stuff, the base Boyz units seemed a bit cheap/rushed to me.
So with the possibility of a new codex looming.. any chance for models as well?
As the current plastic boy is the base model for boyz, warbikers, lootaz and burnaz, I highly doubt that it will get remade - the would have to redo the entire ork line then. They have only redone a few models in all the previous 6th codices, orks will not be an exception.
I don't see a problem though, it's pretty good model imo.
option of burna's in a boyz squad (just like big shootas and rokkits)
lootas being 5 points more expensive - flash gitz being 5 points cheaper
a bloodaxe warboss who allows you take kommandos as troops
a snakebite warboss who allows you take squiggoths as transports
a deathskull warboss who allows flashgits as troops
and a few fun things like
the old epic 40k vehicles like the gut-busta and spleen-rippa
the fw (or a new plastic model) meka-dread
ork's who've scavenged power-armour and made shields like in the 'space marine' game
I wouldn't mind a mek dread of some sort, in the vein of the dread mob.
Speaking of flash gits, please give them a dedicated transport. I don't mind building an entire army around one unit of the ladz, but really, two heavy weapons slots that prevents me from putting my boyz in a battlewagon is kinda annoying, as boyz have this tendency to die before they can do anything useful.
Still think that Flash Gits would be perfectly 'fine' if they simply removed the 1 limit on their upgrades. If I could pay x points for +1 Strength of the shot, and 2x points for +2 strength... I'd be willing to pay around 320 points for a heavy support option that was 4 infantry models that could put out 12 Strength 10 shots, even with the Git'z shorter range. Ignoring cover and having a random armour pen is just a bonus.
Anvildude wrote: Still think that Flash Gits would be perfectly 'fine' if they simply removed the 1 limit on their upgrades. If I could pay x points for +1 Strength of the shot, and 2x points for +2 strength... I'd be willing to pay around 320 points for a heavy support option that was 4 infantry models that could put out 12 Strength 10 shots, even with the Git'z shorter range. Ignoring cover and having a random armour pen is just a bonus.
Ummm.,....you CAN take more than one upgrade. The entry reads 'may take any of the following' and nothing about just one. The problem is the upgrades are too expensive.
Even if you ignore that "take any of the following" is GWs default wording for picking anything from a following list up to once, buying each upgrade ten times is still making your weapon S6 and AP2.
There is only one clan that I can see fielding Flash Gitz, and that's the Bad Moons. Deathskulls use lootas, and I don't know how others would see those being taken as troops.
How about a Deathskull warboss that can trade out one boy in any group of ten ork infantry units with a mek with a kustom mega blasta for free?
Freebootaz would also be fielding flash gits as signature units.
Considering that meks with kustom mega blastas are more likely to kill themselves than anything else on the board, you might as well have your warboss just kill d3 boyz at the start of the game because of bad temper and save everyone some time
I'd be happy to see any resemblance of chapter tactics or chaos marks in our next codex, so your clan actually has a meaning.
Jidmah wrote: Freebootaz would also be fielding flash gits as signature units.
Also a good point
Considering that meks with kustom mega blastas are more likely to kill themselves than anything else on the board, you might as well have your warboss just kill d3 boyz at the start of the game because of bad temper and save everyone some time
A roll of one for death versus a roll of 5+ for a hit is an equal chance. I suppose if you added the three other rolls they had to do, but you would have to be extremely unlucky. That, and any mek can replace their kmb with a big shoota for free, or upgrade to a burna.
When I said "For free" in my last post, it was to say that changing out a boy for a mek was free, and any mek in the vanilla game already comes with a kmb.
I just skimmed most of this thread (well, the last couple pages anyway) and didn't notice anyone mentioning that this is a Matt Ward codex. Being the fanboy that he is, expect Ghazghul to be amazing, weirdboys to be the best thing in the codex, and some awful, awful fluff.
I really want bomb squigs to be a unit upgrade that act like independent characters, sort of like their involvement in the THQ Space Marine game. I would also like to see the duel choppa wielding beserkers from that game introduced. 2 wounds, furious charge, and rage if they suffer a wound, but survive.
Awesome because of Matt Ward? Did you not know wtf he did to the Orcs and Goblins codex for fantasy back in 7th? Hardcore orc players shelved their armies it was so horrible.
Thats the sole reason i am dreading a new codex, purely because a greenskin hater is writing it.
Jidmah wrote: Considering that meks with kustom mega blastas are more likely to kill themselves than anything else on the board, you might as well have your warboss just kill d3 boyz at the start of the game because of bad temper and save everyone some time
A roll of one for death versus a roll of 5+ for a hit is an equal chance. I suppose if you added the three other rolls they had to do, but you would have to be extremely unlucky. That, and any mek can replace their kmb with a big shoota for free, or upgrade to a burna.
That's the math that GW probably did when designing them, which really is the problem. When you roll a 1, you mek gets and auto wound and has nothing but a 6+armor to save himself. When you hit a target, you first have to wound it, and then it gets to use its TDA/daemon save, cover or (worst case) its storm shield. A big shoota also has a pretty decent chance of killing a terminator (compared to a kmb), so I'd always use that. A burna is nice for a couple of different reasons. I'd give the KMB a chance on kanz, because of increased BS and higher resilience to "Gets hot!", but orks shouldn't be using it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm not that worried about Ward writing the codex. He he really sucks at writing good rules and fluff, but most of his codices at least have a hand full of different army builds, which is all I really want. In addition, I doubt that ward could write fluff stupid enough to be too stupid for orks
No matter what he writes, it will get torn up anyways. Just look at the black templars crying foul about suddenly not hating the most essential part of their crusading fleet.
I've always heard that he is really great at writing rules, but that he is 'meeh' at the fluff.
That's also my experience with his two codices I have (Necron and BA), at least for the rules-part since I like the fluff.
Many abilities feel good and it really gives me a sense of uniqueness.
It's also balanced enough that I could take different approaches to the army without being cornered in one "take this list or play another codex!"-feeling.
In addition, I doubt that ward could write fluff stupid enough to be too stupid for orks
That is my biggest fear though.
Orks aren't as stupid as many people believe they are.
I am afraid that they are going to be a parody of themselves with the new codex.
I think you misunderstood me here. I agree with you that his abilities feel good and unique, however, he tends to make them ambiguous, inconsistent or function bad with other existing rules. It's more about the quality of his rules writing combined with GW's speed of clearing up rules issues, rather than him actually putting orky rules in the ork codex.
In terms of "stupid fluff", it's hard to top Wazzdakka driving his bike into a titan and keeping the burning skulls of the crew around. In any other codex this would seem totally over the top and out of place, for orks its just another fun, ridiculous story among others.
If it's blue and in Power Armour that's a different story.
We can only hope he doesn't write it, or at least co-writes it with someone...
What I try to explain to my friends every time I say I fear for ward to write the next 'dex
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kangodo wrote: I've always heard that he is really great at writing rules, but that he is 'meeh' at the fluff. That's also my experience with his two codices I have (Necron and BA), at least for the rules-part since I like the fluff.
The problem with Ward is that whilst he writes OTT rules... He only writes them for the armies only he likes, for example as in the post I put in above, if your in power armour or in a skeletal suit, you will have brilliant rules that go completely in your favour, because he shows his favouritism in the armies he likes, however if you play an army he doesn't like that he made rules for (see O&G current army book) he will deliberately not make the rules you see in the Necron codex or anything in power armour, because (my theory, so add in a sandbag's worth of salt) because he wants to see the armies he likes succeed way more than the army's he doesn't. He's a greenskin hater therefore will write rules to make them to challenging to use and make every game an uphill battle to play (again see O&G current book) which isn't really fair when another army he wrote has every tool of the trade, complete with Chuck Norris's and Mary sues address don't you think?
Is he a greenskin hater, or a Fantasy hater? I started fantasy with his Daemon army book, and find it wanting. Very wanting. My ogres are much more useful. Perhaps he likes writing codexes, and not army books. Personally, I think that's how I'd be were I fortunate enough to have his job.
im the opposite lol. i'd have more joy trying to balance the codex than writing the fluff.
Back on the wishlist for the ork codex, another little buff i'd like to see is Deffkoptas getting assault movements. Makes sense since theyre pretty much only a shooting unit that picks things off. Retain scout too.
Scout 12", move 12", shoot somethin, jump 2D6 to the side to try and get outta sight
Meh. I'd prefer them getting a larger unit size. The apocalyptic units of 10-30 totally rock the board. Me thinks 9 or 10 would be a good number for regular games.
That's the math that GW probably did when designing them, which really is the problem. When you roll a 1, you mek gets and auto wound and has nothing but a 6+armor to save himself. When you hit a target, you first have to wound it, and then it gets to use its TDA/daemon save, cover or (worst case) its storm shield. A big shoota also has a pretty decent chance of killing a terminator (compared to a kmb), so I'd always use that. A burna is nice for a couple of different reasons. I'd give the KMB a chance on kanz, because of increased BS and higher resilience to "Gets hot!", but orks shouldn't be using it.
My original argument was about putting meks in with boyz. How do you feel about that?
Depends. I've always felt that a mek isn't worth more than a boy, so I don't like spending 10 points on him. However, he can make precision shots with his big shoota or take burna, which regular boy mobs can't. Personally I'd only field a mek to have second character a HQ's bodyguard, but YMMV.
Jidmah wrote: Depends. I've always felt that a mek isn't worth more than a boy, so I don't like spending 10 points on him.
Yes, but I said the switch with a boy would be free. Basically a six point mek that can take all the upgrades a mek in a loota or burna squad can take.
Oh, thought you were talking about the spanna boyz from IA:8 - those can take a mek, but they pay 10 points for it. A free mek would pretty much be an auto-include. He should be able to get a bosspole though, the one from the dread mob can't.
Well, I was saying that for every 10 boyz in the mob, one can be traded for a mek. Nobz would still be the character leaders, and thus get da skullz fer da bosspole. The main advantage for free meks would be the potential to take 6 big shootaz in a full mob.
Makari.That is all we need.And grot tanks.And a looted killy walker(deffnight, wraitnight,or ripetidMaybe a looted carnifex )some epic units would be good.A looted wagon that isn't paper mache when It comes to armour.
Besides, orks are not exactly paragons of martial honor and fair play...
Ok, here goes my wishlist...
- A CHARIOT. Yay, lest I'm forgetting something, there are only three chariot-type units right now, in use by just two armies. It made sense that neither Marines, DA or Tau got one, all being scifi-ish armies with a focus on shooting. I was kinda disappointed that Eldar didn't get one despite the various mentions to "sky chariots" in their fluff, but they got the Monstrous Creature instead. Tyranids will probably stick to their old "no vehicles" unwritten rule. Doesn't quite fit the Imperial Guard or Blood Angels IMHO. Sisters, GK and Dark Eldar won't be getting a new dex in the inmediate future. And a wolf-drawn cart for Space Wolves would be just dumb.
That leaves us with a strong chance of orks getting their own chariot.
And it makes sense and fits the theme, as I can easily see our HQs riding to the frontlines on an ungainly contraption from which they can krump 'eads in style. Also, it gives GW the perfect excuse to sell us a most likely expensive dual kit which hopefully includes a plastic, customisable Big Mek or Warboss...
- Buggies. Once a staple on most ork armies, buggies need to be fixed in order to make them viable again, but I honestly don't know how. I was expecting we'd see hints of their future treatment in the new Eldar 'dex, as Vypers share some of the same problems that are crippling buggies right now. Perhaps larger squadrons, or the ability to take them outside the FOC as support for a jetbike squad. But Vypers were left untouched, so no clues yet on what the buggies' fate will be.
- Looted Wagons. Been using them lately. The boomgun, 'ard case variant. They bring a nice S8 large blast that can be dead killy assuming it hits its intended target, but I call myself lucky if I can squeeze two shots out of them before they go in a bang, as they won't last long to any foe worth its salt. And it's sad, really. Buying an Imperial Rhino, Chimera or Russ (or something xenos if you're feeling adventurous) and gluing all sorts of bitz and gubbins to it is an Ork player's rite of passage. The mechanical abomination you so lovingly bashed together should be able to bring something meaningful to the tabletop.
The best way to fix them would be, cost decreases aside, more kustomization options. Like buying additional layers of armor up to AV13 front, Grot Gunners for the extra BS, Supa-charged engines that make them fast, maybe a kustom force field...
That way, Looted Wagons could perhaps become the swiss knife of the ork army. Need a support vehicle to buff the boyz? Long range artillery? A Skorcha tank? A mobile pillbox bristling with Big Shootas? Just leave it to the meks.
- Vehicle-mounted Skorchas would be an auto-take if they had Torrent.
- Aircraft. Burna-bommerz need a substantial points drop. Blitza-bommers' bombs should either be large blast or don't scatter.
- Dedicated transports galore. Burnas and Tankbustas need one, Flash gits even more so.
- Flash Gits should be a Nob upgrade. Give them access to bosspoles, trukks and battlewagons and they'll be the new black.
- Army-wide rules. Perhaps an improved "mob rule" that allows mobs of 10+ orks to ignore the penalty for disorganized charges?
Enough wishlisting for now, more to come sometime soon...
To me looted wagon should be "Build A Tank Workshop" in a nutshell lol. Orks have a tendency to slap random things to vehicles, we should be able to make up one hell of a "wtf?" vehicle, with orky side effects of course (BS2, Dont Press Dat, or possibly other side effects like some bigger guns get Gets Hot! even though there non-ork equiv doesnt since we got it slightly cheaper and on whatever body we want)
Vineheart01 wrote: To me looted wagon should be "Build A Tank Workshop" in a nutshell lol. Orks have a tendency to slap random things to vehicles, we should be able to make up one hell of a "wtf?" vehicle, with orky side effects of course (BS2, Dont Press Dat, or possibly other side effects like some bigger guns get Gets Hot! even though there non-ork equiv doesnt since we got it slightly cheaper and on whatever body we want)
As far as the Nobz in challenges thing goes, the only fix necessary would be that they always get to strike in a challenge, even if they are killed first. That should apply to any Ork in a challenge. I would even take a trade-off that Orks MUST issue a challenge whenever possible. Orks are brave and stubborn as hell; the rules should reflect this, not give them a pass for challenges.
They need points adjustments across the board. Some units need to be brought up to speed with better rules or options (MANz, Flash Gits, Tankbustas, burnas in mobs, etc.).
They need Klans, just like SM got chapter tactics, and the minimal unit requirements for those sub-factions (boarboyz or squig riders, squiggoths, practical looted wagons, etc). this is probably the single most important rule to me.
Units/upgrades with random effects need to be priced fairly. Random is fun and fluffy, and players should be encouraged to take random units.
Ork Fightas and Fighta-Bommaz are two of the most iconic fliers in the history and fluff of the game. They should be inferior to other armies' fliers, but cheap enough to field en masse. Like, REALLY cheap and REALLY fast and REALLY killy, but REALLY fragile. Even prone to malfunction!
Assaulting is tough in this edition. Waaaagh! represents a perfect platform for making assaults tenable. I'd like to see a Waaagh! that works. Perhaps grants a 6+ FnP for an entire player turn, in addition to a speed bump? I also think it should let Orks assault from reserves/close-topped vehicles that turn. Because WAAAAAGH!
AngryMarine wrote: Is he a greenskin hater, or a Fantasy hater? I started fantasy with his Daemon army book, and find it wanting. Very wanting. My ogres are much more useful. Perhaps he likes writing codexes, and not army books. Personally, I think that's how I'd be were I fortunate enough to have his job.
Which Daemon book? He wrote them for 7th and 8th, and according to the internet rabble the 7th edition book was supposed to be the most OP army in the game at the time.
And anyway, how's the new High Elves and Dark Elves books?
MeanGreenStompa wrote: I'm not sure boyz can have a drop in points... unless they also get nerfed in some way and that will make me a very sad panda. Also it may cause me to attack someone.
They've dropped pretty much all the other infantry down in points. 5 point boyz wouldn't be too game breaking. But in that case I'd demand 4 point gants.
Da krimson barun wrote: "YOU GIT!IZ GORGUTZ EAD UNTER AND YOU FINK IZ GOFF MUZIC!?COME ER SO I CAN PUT YOU ON ME POINTY STIK!SKULLZ FOR DA POINTY STIK!"
Da krimson barun wrote: "YOU GIT!IZ GORGUTZ EAD UNTER AND YOU FINK IZ GOFF MUZIC!?COME ER SO I CAN PUT YOU ON ME POINTY STIK!SKULLZ FOR DA POINTY STIK!"
Da krimson barun wrote: "YOU GIT!IZ GORGUTZ EAD UNTER AND YOU FINK IZ GOFF MUZIC!?COME ER SO I CAN PUT YOU ON ME POINTY STIK!SKULLZ FOR DA POINTY STIK!"
BLUD FUH DA RED PAINT, 'EADZ FUH DA BOSSPOLE!
Hrm, Khornate Ork? Interesting...
I better add this to the Orkonomicon. *Scribble-scribble...*
Da krimson barun wrote: "YOU GIT!IZ GORGUTZ EAD UNTER AND YOU FINK IZ GOFF MUZIC!?COME ER SO I CAN PUT YOU ON ME POINTY STIK!SKULLZ FOR DA POINTY STIK!"
BLUD FUH DA RED PAINT, 'EADZ FUH DA BOSSPOLE!
Hrm, Khornate Ork? Interesting...
I better add this to the Orkonomicon. *Scribble-scribble...*
"DONT FERGET DA STORMBOYZ O CORN!WAAAGH KILL HUMIES!!
Lifta droppa is a FW gun...and it got nerfed to hell and back anyway.
Also, dropping ork boyz to 5pts would be nice but not really needed. Theyre not as powerful as they were when first introduced because the other armies got cheaper, but theyre still good. Its every "special boy" that needs a price cut big time. Tankbustas would be fine if they had tank/monster hunter, lootas obviously are fine where they are, but stormboyz kommandoz and burnas need a cut bad lol or same cost but 4+ armor for free, because right now they cost way more than an 'ard boy.
I think Ork flash gitz should have an assload of options. different weapons, combi-gear, squigs, random grots! No 2 models in any army should be the same.
Ive always thought it would be fun too field a mob of mad boyz. They could have similar stat line to boyz but shepaer and have no sluggs just choppas and some special rule rule that makes them do really weird stuff
Vineheart01 wrote: Lifta droppa is a FW gun...and it got nerfed to hell and back anyway.
Lol its still a fun gun and it has been fun since epic 40k and final liberation on windows 95. Just because its forge world now does not mean it's excluded as something i'd like to see in the new dex. nerf or not.
I don't understand the debate over the Lifta Droppa. It's a great concept. Yes, the rules are bad right now... isn't that all the more reason for them to be rewritten for the new Dex?
Lord Gatlas wrote: I think Ork flash gitz should have an assload of options. different weapons, combi-gear, squigs, random grots! No 2 models in any army should be the same.
Vineheart01 wrote: Lifta droppa is a FW gun...and it got nerfed to hell and back anyway.
Lol its still a fun gun and it has been fun since epic 40k and final liberation on windows 95. Just because its forge world now does not mean it's excluded as something i'd like to see in the new dex. nerf or not.
Personally i have not used the lifta droppa. But i would have loved to, tell me, What was it like?
Ugin, the Owl King wrote: I don't understand the debate over the Lifta Droppa. It's a great concept. Yes, the rules are bad right now... isn't that all the more reason for them to be rewritten for the new Dex?
Generally speaking, Games workshop doesn't cannibalize stuff from Forge world, as it'd be eating into it's own profits.
Making Ork Boyz cheaper wouldn't help - because they still wouldn't be good. Simple points adjustments won't make them more viable; Ork players can already max out the Troops slots in most games if they wanted. What is needed is some way to ensure that they can do their intended job - i.e. overwhelm the enemy in melee by strength of numbers.
Charles Rampant wrote: Making Ork Boyz cheaper wouldn't help - because they still wouldn't be good. Simple points adjustments won't make them more viable; Ork players can already max out the Troops slots in most games if they wanted. What is needed is some way to ensure that they can do their intended job - i.e. overwhelm the enemy in melee by strength of numbers.
Sorry in advance, because this might sound like an ad hominem attack directed at you; it's not meant to be.
In my experience, people who think that Ork boyz aren't good either don't play Orks themselves (and don't have to face good Ork players frequently), or do play Orks and are just inferior players. I say this as an extremely experienced Ork player (17 years); boyz have been better and they have been worse than they are now, but they have never been bad. We can enter into a debate about their relative strengths and weaknesses, and you'd be right to list a whole lot of problems with the ladz.
I think the problem with Orks is that the boyz are not supported. If boyz had a dedicated transport with AVs between the Trukk and the BW (that could still hold 20 orks), they'd be much more effective. Or even if boyz could just straight-up take BWs, and BWs were 80 points. If their Looted Wagons were legitimate battle tanks even nearly as good as a Russ, they'd be much better off. If Flash Gitz were cheaper and reasonably reliable, so there was another shooty alternative to Lootaz, that'd also be nice. The problem is that boyz are good, but Orks are rapidly approaching becoming a one-trick pony. They need decent support, so opponents are distracted from just killing boyz and winning games.
That being said, I think the new cover rules pretty much necessitate a 6+ FnP for all Orks, across the board.
Also, I think Flash Gitz should stay in HS, but have access to a BW as DT. Why?
The Elites slot is already crowded, and has the best shooty unit in the Dex. If you want to go all the way shooty, then you should be able to take a few Flash Gitz without sacrificing Lootaz.
Also, pretty much every single unit should have access to BWs as a DT. That would almost single-handedly fix Orks difficulty as a contender in high points games. BWs are NOT AN EFFECTIVE BATTLE TANK, so they shouldn't cost 90 points, and/or they shouldn't take up a HS slot. If the Killkannon were effective and actually worth taking, then it should obviously remain unavailable on DT BWs. I could even see the same argument being made about Deffrollas (which will probably be nerfed, and so it won't matter)/
Flash Gitz and Lootas should be swapped. Lootas in HS, Gitz in Elite. Why? Because Lootas are almost the definition of Heavy Support! They carry the only Boy-portable Heavy weapon in the Codex, fer cryin out loud!
Or, if you want to take Gitz in HS, then allow them to buy upgrades that stack multiple times. I'd pay 25 points per model to upgrade the strength of its gun to Str 10, even on a 24" range gun.
Charles Rampant wrote: Making Ork Boyz cheaper wouldn't help - because they still wouldn't be good. Simple points adjustments won't make them more viable; Ork players can already max out the Troops slots in most games if they wanted. What is needed is some way to ensure that they can do their intended job - i.e. overwhelm the enemy in melee by strength of numbers.
Sorry in advance, because this might sound like an ad hominem attack directed at you; it's not meant to be.
In my experience, people who think that Ork boyz aren't good either don't play Orks themselves (and don't have to face good Ork players frequently), or do play Orks and are just inferior players. I say this as an extremely experienced Ork player (17 years); boyz have been better and they have been worse than they are now, but they have never been bad. We can enter into a debate about their relative strengths and weaknesses, and you'd be right to list a whole lot of problems with the ladz.
I think the problem with Orks is that the boyz are not supported. If boyz had a dedicated transport with AVs between the Trukk and the BW (that could still hold 20 orks), they'd be much more effective. Or even if boyz could just straight-up take BWs, and BWs were 80 points. If their Looted Wagons were legitimate battle tanks even nearly as good as a Russ, they'd be much better off. If Flash Gitz were cheaper and reasonably reliable, so there was another shooty alternative to Lootaz, that'd also be nice. The problem is that boyz are good, but Orks are rapidly approaching becoming a one-trick pony. They need decent support, so opponents are distracted from just killing boyz and winning games.
That being said, I think the new cover rules pretty much necessitate a 6+ FnP for all Orks, across the board.
Had to quote this for truth. Perfect analysis of the current ork problem.
However, I'd still like to see a point drop for ork boyz, simply to make it easier to bring more toys. The "boyz before toyz" mantra mostly stems from boyz being cheap while everything else isn't. I also don't think that the 90 points on a battlewagon is a problem. It's still a large assault transport with AV14/12/10, that's something no one else gets. The deff rolla is just the icing on the cake. If boyz (and more importantly, their nobz) drop in points, a unit of battlewagon boyz would also drop in total, pretty much resulting in the same thing you suggest.
Anvildude wrote: Flash Gitz and Lootas should be swapped. Lootas in HS, Gitz in Elite. Why? Because Lootas are almost the definition of Heavy Support! They carry the only Boy-portable Heavy weapon in the Codex, fer cryin out loud!
No, they shouldn't be. Heavy support is for heavy stuff, like deff dreads, battlewagons, big gunz and whatnot. Boyz with special weapons do not belong there, nor do shooty nobz. Lootaz are just a medium strength medium range unit compared to the rest of the game, more like stern guard, fire dragons or purifiers than devastators, havocs or dark reapers.
Just because we don't get any good shooting, doesn't mean that the single decent gun we get is atomatically our equivalent of a leman russ, a predator or a fire prism. At least to me, lootaz aren't even remotely "heavy". If lootaz actually had a gun that would be on par with missile launchers or lascannons, that would be "heavy".
Are Lootas not the equivalent of a Devestator squad? Dark reapers (though those might be elite? don't know Pansy Force Org)? Obliteraters? There's plenty of precedent for a 'medium' shooty unit in Heavy Support.
People keep saying lootas should be in heavy because theyre basically orky devastator and they provide cover fire, which heavy normally does if it isnt being used for durable things.
People dont realize though that if you swap them, you break the codex. Wagon lists are jack squat without loota support, and if theyre the same FOC slot you cant have both anymore.
I would love a BW as a dedicated transport. I was going to mention it actually and im glad someone else brought it up. Boyz could probably use a points reduction and/or a 6+FNP. Given the way that new codexs points are going on basic troops, I wouldnt be surprised to see a points reduction.
i'd be fine taking BW as heavy like usual for my boyz but i'd love Ramshackle on that thing lol.
S4 on 20 models is usually 1/3 of the models dead when its just a tshirt save. S3 on the other hand, you might cause 4-5 wounds instead of nearly double that. Every time my BW blows up i lose 8-10 orks. That makes them as pointless as Trukk boyz, and about the same numbers after a trukk exploded too.
Big Mek Dattrukk wrote: Bring back the 3rd Ed version of Waaagh. Instead of getting Fleet, they do a "size check" (leadership test against current mob size) and get +1 attack and Double initiative if passed. Ghazkull instead allows all units to auto pass.
Give the truly dedicated shooting units (lootas, Flash gits) +1 BS and -1 WS to compensate (they spend so much time shooting they forgot how to krump good and proppa)
Make Mega armor and option for nobz, rather than a different unit.
bring back Nazdreg, and give him the special rule that he can allow d3 units to deepstrike. (his Telly Portas)
Add Bad Doks to the list of HQs, allowing units to take Painboyz at 15points instead of nobs.
Give Big choppa's an AP value.
bring back the Dakka Dread. (can replace its CCWs to make the guns TL)
Give the Kans something to make them a little more durable.
Give tank bustas some form of ranged Melta. (even if it only has the stat line of a melta pistol)
That would be godly.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I am not only looking for a new codex but 7 supplement books for the 6 klans and 1 for freebooters!
like evilsunz can strap turbo boostas onto your vehcles bikes as troops and so on
snakebits can be immune to all poison attacks and squiggoths for pete's sake!
goffs a variety of krump ugrades and cqan give your trukk a bigger crew compartment
badmoons cna give you flashy and snazzy gunz
blood axes can have camo armour and have BS3 because they learnt how to shoot
deffskullz can loot all vehicles and have their stats!
then there are freebooters they have beeter snazzgunz and some other freebooter stuff like kannonz carried but an orkboy!
All Orks loot vehicles. Deffskullz and Blood Axes just do it best. I don't mean to be pedantic, but Looted Wagon rules shouldn't apply to Deffskullz only. My fear is that the consensus has shifted such that a lot of players think of Looted Wagons as a Deffskull thing. Seriously, one time I posted a picture of a Blood Axe detachment with two Looted Russes, and I got multiple responses back to the effect that my detachment looked more like a Deffskullz force. This in spite of extensive kammo.
This would be tragic if it spread. I love my Blood Axes, and I can't imagine playing them without Looted Wagons. I've stood by this unit despite how bad it is (hey, it's still a fairly cheap pie plate, and it can make up its points in Beakies with some small luck and KFF/cover). But using Imperial technology (including tanks) is as much a part of traditional Blood Axe fluff as looting the battlefield is a part of Deffskull fluff. I would hate it if the Blood Axe equivalent of Chapter Tactics (which we will hopefully finally get) doesn't include Looted Wagons (especially Imperial ones), or if only Deffskullz get good rules for looting.
Ugin, the Owl King wrote: All Orks loot vehicles. Deffskullz and Blood Axes just do it best. I don't mean to be pedantic, but Looted Wagon rules shouldn't apply to Deffskullz only. My fear is that the consensus has shifted such that a lot of players think of Looted Wagons as a Deffskull thing. Seriously, one time I posted a picture of a Blood Axe detachment with two Looted Russes, and I got multiple responses back to the effect that my detachment looked more like a Deffskullz force. This in spite of extensive kammo.
This would be tragic if it spread. I love my Blood Axes, and I can't imagine playing them without Looted Wagons. I've stood by this unit despite how bad it is (hey, it's still a fairly cheap pie plate, and it can make up its points in Beakies with some small luck and KFF/cover). But using Imperial technology (including tanks) is as much a part of traditional Blood Axe fluff as looting the battlefield is a part of Deffskull fluff. I would hate it if the Blood Axe equivalent of Chapter Tactics (which we will hopefully finally get) doesn't include Looted Wagons (especially Imperial ones), or if only Deffskullz get good rules for looting.
I agree I really do I really never said anything bad about blood axes but what you said is true.
I know you didn't, and I agree with most of your post. I'm just hyper-sensitive about Blood Axe background. They're not my only klan (I have a 1200 point Goff Kan Wall), but they're my favorite. Below is my wish listed Klan rules:
Goffs get one unit of Nobz or MANz as Troops. Skarboyz (upgrade to boyz and Ardboyz) trade furious charge for S4 (and maybe I3), small points increase.
Deffskullz get one unit of lootaz as Troops. Extended LW rules, where they can take other armies' tanks at cost with BS2.
Snakebites get immunity to poison, and Nobz get poisoned (6+) attacks. One unit of boarboyz/squigriders as Troops (these should be a regular Codex option).
Blood Axes get one unit of kommandos as Troops. Extended LW rules, like Deffskullz, but limited to Imperial vehicles. Can upgrade boyz and grots to outflank for small points increase.
Bad Moonz get one unit of MANz or Flash Gits as Troops. All BM characters and vehicles with two or more upgrades get their cheapest upgrade for free.
Evil Sunz get any number of bikes as troops, and one unit of Biker Nobz as Troops.
If anything, these are conservative. I could hope for more, sure, but at this point I'm more afraid they'll dilute out something cool or just forget about some of the better fluff.
Ugin, the Owl King wrote: I know you didn't, and I agree with most of your post. I'm just hyper-sensitive about Blood Axe background. They're not my only klan (I have a 1200 point Goff Kan Wall), but they're my favorite. Below is my wish listed Klan rules:
Goffs get one unit of Nobz or MANz as Troops. Skarboyz (upgrade to boyz and Ardboyz) trade furious charge for S4 (and maybe I3), small points increase.
Deffskullz get one unit of lootaz as Troops. Extended LW rules, where they can take other armies' tanks at cost with BS2.
Snakebites get immunity to poison, and Nobz get poisoned (6+) attacks. One unit of boarboyz/squigriders as Troops (these should be a regular Codex option).
Blood Axes get one unit of kommandos as Troops. Extended LW rules, like Deffskullz, but limited to Imperial vehicles. Can upgrade boyz and grots to outflank for small points increase.
Bad Moonz get one unit of MANz or Flash Gits as Troops. All BM characters and vehicles with two or more upgrades get their cheapest upgrade for free.
Evil Sunz get any number of bikes as troops, and one unit of Biker Nobz as Troops.
If anything, these are conservative. I could hope for more, sure, but at this point I'm more afraid they'll dilute out something cool or just forget about some of the better fluff.
Charles Rampant wrote: Doesn't that kind of make us return to the same issue as in the current codex - where the whole unit lives or dies based upon the Nob?
It could be warboss only who wields the powerclaw at Initiative 2. But anyway, this obviously shouldn't be the only change to the book, but one that would give the boss some teeth in challenges - which Orks seem to suffer with, but shouldn't based on fluff.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I really like the idea of Stormboys being able to assault or vector-strike Fliers. Maybe they have a general vector-strike mechanic that can hit other units too? Some mechanic where Stormboys blow themselves up to cause glancing hits or wounds to a unit with their vector-strike. A unit that could assault Fliers would be pretty nasty on the battlefield.
Sacrifice 1d6 stormboyz as they fly into the engine intakes/jets/grav plates/whatever and gum up the works...
Challenges suck for orks because low I plus almost mandatory PK plus no armour sucks.
Put a warboss in a unit with a nob though, and you can still wreck face while the Nob soaks the hits. Since you can now take 4 warbosses at 2000 pts this can even work..
Not the MOST efficient way of doing business, but fun
I would like the following rule:
Knee to the happy sacs:
The Ork character delivers a low blow, reducing the opponent in the challenge to the same I step he fights on. Blows are struck simultaneously.
Orks need one rule change IMO, every turn you roll 1 D 20 and if you roll a 18-20 you role a 1 d 6 and if you get a 6 you can bring in reinforcements via the New Call of the WAAGH! special rule that allow you to bring in any number of squads and of infantry that add up to no more than 25% of the games point total.
These squads can enter the game under the reserves rule.
For fluff this would happen it could happen every turn for non-opness it would be once per game.
Need to not include a d20, as not everyone has played D&D at this point, or even knows what a d20 is. Need to keep it on d6s. Maybe require a roll of 2d6, and on double-6s (or double-5s or whatever) you get more Boyz joining the Waaagh.
For Stormboyz, I would make it slightly easier, but slightly more balanced. A unit of Stormboyz can make an Assault against any flyer within their Assault range. The flying unit suffers 1 S4 (or more, maybe have wargear to upgrade this?) hit per member of the Stormboyz unit. It gets Armor Saves as normal, taking 1W damage per failed save. A failed save inflicts 1W on the flier and costs the Stormboyz unit 1 model. A flyer that runs out of W crashes.
This represents the Stormboyz quite literally assaulting the flyer, clinging onto it, getting into fisticuffs with the crew through the windscreen, and fighting to the death as the flyer crashes into the ground.
I don't agree with certain claims the author makes. For example: "There isn't quite as much to explore and the characters aren't individually as deep, or complexly written." Overall, though, it seems pretty thoughtful.
I would love to see more of the ork psychic-ness fleshed out, probably in the form of weirdboyz. They are the most psychic race if pure numbers are concerned, they just arnt aware of it/cannot control it well. Id love to see weirdboyz have some cool powers or maybe army wide abilities (although better implemented than what ive read in the rumors).
Maybe a gork and a mork table, one with shooting attacks and one with army-buffing abilities. I'd really like anything that makes them more reliable than they are now. Right now, they pretty much only make back their points on accident.
I think better weirdboyz with a separate Gork and Mork table is good.
I also think Oddboyz would be nice in Elites. As discussed, SW style unit choice that could be broken up and attached to other mobz (with limitations, of course). Or, each HQ choice lets you choose an Oddboy outside of the normal FO chart?
Pretty much every other army out there can use Psychic Powers, allies or wargear (markerlights) to increase their power exponentially. All we can do is increase it linearly, since we have no Battle Brothers, no real Psychic Powers and very simple wargear.
As many have said, Oddboyz / Weirdboyz / Painboyz working as Sanguinary Priests or Wolf Guards would go a long way towards this.
Some weird technological artefacts would also help tremendously.
Less dakka more choppy.Klan tactics would be nice.I want them to improve units though not add looted tanks to deffskullz/Blood axes.Also:
Bloo paint job:Gets a save(what kind?What roll?No idea) to represent how lucky it is.
Yellow paint job(something to do with dakka?I don't know!)
Black:Some thing to show how ard it is.
Any others?
Da krimson barun wrote: Less dakka more choppy.Klan tactics would be nice.I want them to improve units though not add looted tanks to deffskullz/Blood axes.Also:
Bloo paint job:Gets a save(what kind?What roll?No idea) to represent how lucky it is.
Yellow paint job(something to do with dakka?I don't know!)
Black:Some thing to show how ard it is.
Any others?
I beleive yellow makes explosions bigger so i guess that could be added to bomms and rokkit launchas. Black can be +1 toughness/strength? I don't know too XD
Some sort of tweak to Flash gitz. Seriously, a decently equipped squad is somewhere in the range of 400+ points, which they are not going to retrieve in a hurry.
That's more than 3 fully dakka-equipped battle wagons. That's AV 14, more shots, reliable AP, templates, higher range and transport capacity for 3 squads of whatever you want.
I for one think that flash gitz are cool as they are, they just need their cost halved to compete with the other stuff.
And the paintjob Idea is awesome! Finally a reason to paint your vehicles something other than red.
I may offend some people but I think the fluff of blood axes is weird. The whole trading with humans is okay but what bugs me is their way of dressing. What I mean is that the commissar hats and coats look ridiculous. I expect blood axes to be ninjas with camo and silencers(reel sneaky like). In the end it is my opinion and you guys might have different thoughts.
A feel no pain system like the Lizardmen's scaly armour system. Da bigga dey ar the tougher dey be. Boyz get a 6+, Nobz get a 5+ and Warbosses get a 4+
Choppas now add +1 strength
Cyboars!!! It solves a lot of our problems by giving us fast melee units with the advantage of armour.
Fix big gunz and make them a source of long range anti tank.
Make Walkers viable again. Add ++ saves or ITND etc.
KKF should be an Invulnerable save not a cover save and there should be a lot more ways to access these things.
Power weapons with ap 2-3 that still strike at int.
Bring burnas back into normal units and do not limit them to 1 per 10. Let a 10 ork mob have the full 3 if they want it. Also bring back the 2D6 armour pen.
Some reliable way of mitigating overwatch.
Weird boyz should work like normal pyskers. 2 tables Gork and Mork. Mix of offense and buffs. Warphead upgrades makes him a mastery level 2.
Ramshackle rule applied as a whole and ways to help da ladz survive vehicle explosions.
Squggioth or some other giant MC would be so cool.
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i want melee back as well, but saddy even if they release a new Ork codex dose not mean they will fix it. Look at the chaos codex. Korn Berserkers are dreadful there 22pts and still only have an 
