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Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:03:08


Post by: Redemption


27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images
Spoiler:

26-08-2013 - Official GW teaser
Spoiler:


26-08-2013 - Codex cover art
Spoiler:
Regular codex cover:


Limited Edition Imperial Fists codex cover:


Limited Edition Iron Hands codex cover:


Limited Edition Raven Guard codex cover:


Limited Edition Ultramarines codex cover:


Limited Edition White Scars codex cover:


Limited Edition Salamanders cover:


Limited Edition Successors cover:


Dust cover:


25-08-2013 - More info from 40k Radio, collected by Zion
Spoiler:
Strikeforce is the replacement for the Battleforce but instead a "starter army" box built around a theme of some kind. So more of starter box than the current Battleforce is. Every army will get one eventually that will be named after something relevant to that army (example: Wraithhost for Eldar).

240 Points for 3 Centurions with Grav-Cannons/Grav-Amps and Hurricane Bolters. 60 point upgrade for Grav-Cannon/Grav-Amps.

Assault Centurions have Move Through Cover

"Chapter Tactics I got to use that one turn" < Ultramarines CT

Codex: Space Marines is largely in line with Codex: Dark Angels points wise.

176 Pages in their copy of the codex (same as rumored)

Hunter has "Savant-Lock". When shooting at a flyer you put a marker on it for each miss. The markers stay on the flyer until it leaves the table or is destroyed. At the beginning of every friendly shooting phase you roll for those markers. On a 5 or a 6 that missle hits.

Artwook is nice, and book is Space Marines more in a general form. More updated fluff, not just the rehashed fluff.

Some of the classic Black and White was colored, but a lot of new art too.

Book is in sections for each chapter and a large number of the Successor Chapters to help players know who should be using what rules.

Salamanders don't really have any successor chapters because their chapter had suffered a large number of casualties so they have a larger number of Marines in their chapter.

"Equivilant to Forge World background" in terms of fluff.

Forgeworld fluff included in the codex.


Warlord Traits - Only Chart for the Codex
1. Angel of Death - Warlord and his unit have the Fear special rule.
2. Imperium Sword - One use only. Declare that your Warlord is using this at the start of one of your assualt phases. The Warlord and his unit have the Furious Charge special rule until the end of the turn. (Sicarius has this one!)
3. Storm of Fire - One use only. Declare that your Warlord is using this at the start of one of your shooting phases. For the duration of that phase a single frienly unit from Codex: Space Marines may re-roll any failed to-hit rolls.
4. Rites of War - When taking morale tests friendly units from Codex: Space Marines within 12" of the Warlord use his characteristic instead of their own.
5. Iron Resolve - When determining your assault results add +1 to your total if the Warlord is locked in that combat.
6. Champion of Humanity - If your Warlord causes the enemy Warlord to be removed from play in a challenge he scores D3 extra victory points in addition in the usual amount of points given for slaying the enemy Warlord in this scenario. Note that killing the enemy Warlord in a sweeping advance does not reward these extra victory points.


Chapter Tactics

Successor Chapters - You use whatever chapter tactics of your parent chapter is. The ONLY Exception is the Black Templar.

Homebrew - You can pick any tactic you want and use the Special Characters of that chapter. Those characters have to use the same Chapter Tactics as the same Chapter their from.

Allies - "A Space Marine Detachment that has one set of Chapter Tactics MAY ally with another Space Marine Detachment with a different set of Chapter Tactics, Ultramarines and Raven Guard for example. For purposes of the Allies rules these allies are treated as being from two different codexes and are treated as Battle Brothers. Note that you may field models from two different chapters that have the same Chapter Tactics, such as Ultramariens and Praetors of Orpheus in the same detachment. These chapters are so closely affiliated that they count as a single army on the battlefield."

Ultramarines - Combat Doctrine:
This detachment can utilize each of the following combat doctrines once per game. To do so at the start of your turn you state which combat doctrine you wish to use, if any, until the start of your next turn. You can only use one combat doctrine per turn.
Tactical: Units in this detachment re-roll ones while shooting, unless they're tactical marines and they re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the shooting phase.
Assault: Units in this detachment can re-roll their charge range. Assault squads, bikes, or attack bikes instead have the fleet rule.
Devastator: Units in this detachment may re-rolls to-hit on snap shots, including overwatch shots, in addition models in this detachment's Devastator squads have the relentless unless they disembarked from a transport in their movement phase.

White Scars - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME
Born in the Saddle: Models in this detachment with the Bike Unit Type automatically pass Dangerous Terrain tests, and recieve a +1 to their Jink Cover Saves. In addition add 1 to their Strength when resolving their Hammer of Wrath hits.
Fight on the Move: Models in this Detachment have the Hit and Run Special Rule. Note that this does not include models in Terminator Armor, Devastator Centurions or Assault Centurions.

Imperial Fists - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME
Bolter Drill - Models in this detachment may re-roll all to-hit rolls of 1 made with a bolt pistol, boltgun, stormbolter, heavy bolters, or combi-weapons that are firing as boltguns. This rule does not apply to Helfire, Kraken, Vengence or Dragonfire rounds.
Siegemasters - Models in this detachment in Devastator squads and Centurion Devastator squads have the Tank Hunter special rule and add +1 when rolling on the building damage table.

Black Templars - BOTH RULES ALL TIME
Accept Any Challenges, No Matter the Odds: When engaged in a challenge, Black Templar Characters reroll all failed to-hit rolls, and have the Rending Special Rule.
Crusaders: Black Templars have the Crusader and Adamantium Will Special Rules. In addition Black Templars have access to a special unit called a Crusader Squad.

Iron Hands - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME
The Flesh is Weak: Models in this detachment have the Feel no Pain on a 6+ Special Rule. Note that if they benefit from more than one instance of Feel no Pain they use the best version available.
Machine Empathy: All vehicles and characters in this detachment have the It Will Not Die special rule even though vehicles do not have Chapter Tactic special rules. Furthermore, Techmarines and Masters of the Forge in this detachment add +1 to their Blessing of the Omnissiah rolls.

Salamanders - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME

Flamecraft: Models in this detachment can re-roll their saving throws against wounds caused by flamer weapons as defined by the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. Furthermore, flame weapons used by models in this detachment re-roll failed to-wound rolls and armor penetration rolls that don't cause a glancing or a penetrating hit.
Master Astisan: During the army selection each character in this detachment may upgrade on of his weapons, even one they have purchased as an upgrade, to have the Mastercrafted Special Rule at no additional cost.

Raven Guard - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME

Strike from the Shadows: Models in this detachment have the Scout Special Rule. In addition, on the first game turn, models in this detachment have the Stealth Special Rule. Note that units that include models with the Bulky or Very Bulky Special Rules do not benefit from either rule.
Wings of Deliverance: Jump Infantry Models in this detachment may use their Jump Packs in both the movement and assault phases of the same turn. Futhermore, they must re-roll all failed to-wound rolls caused by their Hammer of Wrath hits.

COUNT AS: If you want to use Vulkan in a Ultramarines army you have to play use the Salamander Chapter Tactics. So you CAN do "count-as" but you lock yourself into their Chapter Tactics.

Black Templars: + Gains / - Losses (might not be a complete list)
- No More Vows
- No More Marshalls or Castellans
- No More Terminator Command Squads
- No More Master of Sanctity/Reclessiarchy
- Sword Brethren are no longer units
- No More 2 Heavy Weapons in a 5 man Terminator Squad
- No More special rule upgrades (Tank Hunter, ect)
- No More Storm Shields on Assault Squads
- No More extra power weapons in bike squad
- No More Fearless in Close Combat
- No More Righteous Zeal
- Some Flavor
- Most Heavy Weapons +5 more
- No More Power of the Machine Spirt upgrade

+ Chapter Master and Captains
+ Honor Guard
+ Regular Chaplains
+ Master of the Forge
+ Tactical Squads
+ Scout Squads
+ Land Speeder Storm
+ Vanguard
+ Sternguard
+ Ironclad Dreadnoughts
+ Centurions (Assault and Devastator)
+ Scout Bikes
+ Devastators
+ Whirlwinds
+ Hunter
+ Stalker
+ Land Raider Redeemer
+ Crusader Squad keeps Land Raider Crusader as a Dedicated Transport
+ Initiates are 5 points cheaper (counting Frag and Krak Grenade upgrades)
+ Sword Brother option in Crusader Squad
+ Keep Initiate Power Weapon/Fist option
+ Neophyte leadership increased to Ld 8
+ Neophyte Shotguns S4
+ Crusader Squad keeps Pistol and Chainsword option
+ Crusader Squad Organization stays the same


Special Characters:
Marneus Calgar:
- 275 Points
- Artificer Armor standard (2+)
- God of War: May use a single Combat Doctrine twice per game
- Titanic Might: Re-rolls all armor penetrating hits in close combat. He may reroll glancing hits to attempt to get a penetrating hit. Must accept the second roll even if it is worse than the first.
- Warlord Trait: Rolls 3 times on the Warlord Table, rerolling doubles, and chooses a single Warlord Trait.
- Weapons and Ammo still the same. Terminator Armor still has Frag and Krak Grenades. Retain his Teleport Homer.
- Terminator Armor is 10 points and doesn't prevent sweeping advances.


Captain Cato Sicarius:
- 185 points
- Surprise Attack: +1 to Reserve Rolls
- Weapons still the same
- Battle-forged Heros: Pick a Tactical Squad and they gain Counter-Attack, Infiltrate or Scout.
- May still use the Coup-de-Grace with his sword.
- Warlord Trait: Rites of Battle

Tigirius:
- 165 points
- +1 Wound
- Master Psyker: May re-roll any or all of his rolls to choose which powers he knows. He has access to all the powers.
- ML3
- Hood of Hellfire: Psychic Hood that allows you to re-roll failed psychic tests
- Rod of Tigiruis: Same as before with the addition of Soulblaze
- Gift of Prescience: If your army contains Tigirius you may choose to re-roll reserves and apply the result to units of the same attachement.
- Warlord Trait: Storm of Fire

Cassius:
- Zealot
- All equipment the same
- Warlord Trait: Angel of Death

Telion:
- Chapter Tactics Ultramarines
- Same points cost
- Same rules

Sergeant Chronus:
- -20 points
- +1LD
- His vehicle gains It Will not Die

Khan:
- -35 points (bike is still 20 point upgrade)
- Bike does D3 Hammer of Wrath hits
- Furious Charge
- If Khan is your warlord friendly models with the Chapter Tactics White Scars special rule that are bikes or have dedicated transports have the Scout special rule.
- Khan makes all bike squads who are 5 bikes or more count as troop choices.
- Warlord Trait: Champion of Humanity

Vulkan:
- The Forgefather: If Vulkan is your warlord, all meltas, multi-meltas and combi-meltas in this detachment become twin-linked.
- Lost Digital Weapons
- Warlord Trait: Iron Resolve

Shrike:
- 185 points
- Stealth
- Before deploying Shrike can only join a Jump Infantry unit
- Lost Fleet
- Weapons stayed the same
- Warlord Trait: Angel of Death

Lysander:
- +30 Points
- No more Bolter Defenses
- Icon of Obstinancey: All models with the Imperial Fist Chapter Tactics re-roll failed morale and pinning checks
- Same wargear
Warlord Trait: Champion of Humanity

Chapter Master Pedro Kantor:
- +1 Attack
- Oath of Rynn: If Chapter Master Kantor is your Warlord all models in Crimson Fist detachments have the Preferred Enemy (Orks) Special Rule. Furthermore, all such models within 12" of Kantor have +1 Attack while he lives. This bonus does not affector Kantor, and is not cimulative with the similar bonuse that the Chapter Banner gives.
- Still has Hold the Line: Crimson Fist Sternguard Veterans are scoring
- Same Wargear and points
- Warlord Trait: Iron Resolve

Helbrect:
- 180 points
- +1 WS
- Rites of Valor - Gone
- Crusade of Wrath: Once per game, during the Assualt Phase, all models with the Black Templar Chapter Tactics gain Hatred and Fleet until the end of the phase.
- Sword of the High Marshalls is the same
- Legacy of Dorn (+D3 attack on the charge) same

Grimaldus:
- 185 Points
- -1 BS
- +1 Wound
- -1 Attack
- It will Not Die (replaced "Only in Death Does Duty End"
- Zealot
- Relics of Hellsreach: Any Black Templar of a servitor in 6" gains a 6++ Invunerable save.
- Unmatched Zeal: Black Templar models within of 6" of Chaplain of Grimaldus have the Zealot special rule.

Emperor's Champion:
- Uses HQ Slot
- 140 Points
- 2+/4++
- Black Sword: AP2, Mastercrafted
- Combat Stances:
Smite the Unclean - +2 Strength, Black Sword is two-handed and unwieldy
Slay the Heretic - Rolls of 6s to wound are Instant Death
- Bolt Pistol gives extra attack (unless using Smite the Unclean)

22-08-2013 - Q&A session with 40k radio, who claim to have the final codex
Spoiler:
Questions and answered gathered by Zion from Talkwargaming

Q: Is it true that what you guys have is an early playtest material, not the actual printed C:SM codex?
A: I have the final print copy.

Q: Are their any new Special Characters?
A: No.

Q: Is honour guard still 3-10 models, or only available as 5 models similar to command squads or BA honour guard?
A: 3-10

Q: Is relic blade still S+2 AP3 two-handed?
A: Yes

Q: Do Legion of the Damned get Soulblaze like in Apoc?
A: No

Q: Can the LotD still Deep Strike?
A: Yes

Q: Does the LotD still have Slow and Purposeful?
A: Yes

Q: Can the LotD be joined by characters?
A: No

Q: Does Cassius have the Zealot rule?
A: Yes

Q: Do the AA tanks have an alternate fire mode that lets them shoot at ground targets?
A: No, only one firing mode

Q: Can child chapters take the SCs of their parent chapters?
A: No (those are unique to their chapter)

Q: Can Pedro and Lysander be in the same army without using allies?
A: No (CF is one chapter, IF is another)

Q: Are Techmarines slotless HQs like the DA book?
A: Yes

Q: Can Captains still take Artificer Armor?
A: Yes

Q: Do Sternguard combi-weapons still cost 5 points?
A: No, they're 10 points

Q: Does Helbrecht have any other special rules besides the once a game rule that gives fleet/hatred?
A: No

Q: What is the cost of a five man scout squad with a Vet Sergeant?
A: 65 Points

Q: Any changes on Kantor's rules?
A: Basically the same (will be covered on show)

Q: Do bikes and centurions get combat squads rule?
A: Bikes yes, Centurions no.

Q: Is there is any vehicle able to get grav weapons?
A: No

Q: Are neophytes of crusade squad an independent squad that can join the main unit as it was rumoured, or crusade squads are a full unit option?
A: No, like last BT Dex.

Q: Is there option for crusade squads of getting two special weapons?
A: No.

Q: If one crusader squads takes a CLR as transport, it has any point cost reduction?
A: I don't have the BT Dex to check.

Q: Have black templars access to biker scouts?
A: Yes. They have access to everything except Librarians.

Q: Marneus Calgar "God of War" rule is still in there? Has it been replaced by the 3 warlord traits rule?
A: It's different and cool (will be covered on the show).

Q: How many points cost a grav-gun as special weapon on a tac squad?
A: 15 points.

Q: How many points are the lascannon and missle launcher upgrades on the Centurion Devastators?
A: Lascannon is 10, Missile is 10

Q: How much do Relic Blades Cost?
A: Chapter Master and Captain get it for 25 points.

Q: Does the codex include a Power Field Generator (DA Wargear that generates a 4++ for a unit)?
A: No

Q: Can Tactical Marines take a Special Weapon at 5 models?
A: A Squad of 5 can have a special weapon or heavy weapon.

Q: Can Calgar still take up to 3 units of Honor Guard?
A: Yes

Q: Additionally, does his still have the rule that lets him choose to pass or fail morale checks at will?
A: Yes (more in the show)

Q: Are Black Templar Characters required and/or accept challenges?
A: Not required, but they will be sick in challenges

Q: Bikes squads that can be made troops, a minimum of 5 models or 5 models max? there is some conflicting sounding information so people just want to confirm.
A: At least 5 (max 9 with Attack Bike) and if your Captain or Chapter Master is on a bike you make take them as troops.

Q: So Chapter Masters on bikes can unlock bike squads of at least 5 models as troops too?
A: Yes.

Q: Do LotD still have their 3++ save?
A: Yes

Q: Can the Bikers take the grav gun options?
A: Yes

Q: Can Scout Squads take locator beacons or teleport homes?
A: Teleport Homers.

Q: Does Shrike have any other rules?
A: No.

Q: Do Chapter Tactics cost anything?
A: No.

Q: The Stalker, does it have 4 shots total that it can split fire with or does each gun fire 4 shots each?
A: 4 shots each (this will be covered on the show)

Q: Do any of the SC's have Stubborn or Fearless?
A: No

Q: Does the Emperor's Champion take up an HQ slot?
A: Yes

Q: Does Sicarius still re-roll his Sieze Initiative attempts?
A: No

Q: Any change to Razorbacks?
A: I believe they went up 5 points

Q: Does the Ultramarines Tactical Chapter Tactic affect Sternguard special ammo?
A: I believe so.

Q: Also, are bike upgrades for Space Marine Captains cheaper?
A: I think the upgrade stayed the same.

Q: Are normal bikes cheaper?
A: Yes

Q: Are all these answers from an early rendition or playtest and subject to change? Or are these concrete answers from a full codex?
A: The book I have looks like the final. If this is a fake then a ton of effort has gone into this.


Q: Is there any way to assault from vehicles besides assault ramps on land raiders and stormravens?
A: The Land Speeder Storm.

Q: How do Successor Chapters work exactly?
A: This will be covered on the 1 Sept show. The answer is really long and it's easier to just explain it verbally than type it out.

Q: If you have two different chapters that use the same chapter tactic, can they ally to each other?
A: This will als be covered on the 1 Sept show.

Q: How do Camo Cloaks work?
A: +1 to cover, or 6+ cover if not in cover

Q: Can any of the HQs get Camo Cloaks?
A: No

Q: Is there a way to get Eternal Warrior?
A: Yes (will be covered in show (Zion's Speculation: It's a Relic))

Q: Can any of the HQs buy any special rules?
A: No

Q: Do the HQs still have access to Hellfire rounds?
A: No

Q: Can we get a rundown on what Grav Weapons will cost?
A: Grav will be on the show.

Q: In 5th Edition you were encouraged to use SCs as "Count-As" special characters to give you some new/interesting combinations. Is there anything in the new book that allows you to do this?
A: You can no longer do that due to Chapter Tactics.

Q: Just to confirm, this means the Camo Cloaks and the Raven Guard Chapter Tactic stack, right? +2 to their cover saves for having both?
A: They do stack, but there is a caveat to the Raven Guard rule that will be covered on the show. All Chapter Tactics will be covered on the show.

Q: BT High Marshal (Chapter Master equivalent?) Helbrecht has no Orbital Bombardment, but BT can take a "regular" Chapter Master and get the OB from him?
A: Correct, Helbrecht does not have it, but regular Chapter Masters do.

Q: Have Razorback weapon upgrades gotten cheaper, more expensive or stayed the same?
A: Some went down.

Q: How much do Relic Blades cost for Honor Guard?
A: 10 points.

Q: You mentioned that the Raven Guard Chapter Tactics have a caveat. Do all the Chapter Tactics have special caveats in how they can be used?
A: No, there are other rules for RG we didn't mention.

Q: Do these caveats require certain minumum requirements of units or wargear?
A: No.

Q: Are the Drop Pods priced like the DA ones (to include upgrades)?
A: Similiar.

Q: When making an army, are you required to take a chapter trait?
A: Yes.

Q: Is the Exorcists Chapter covered in the list of different Marine chapters/successors in the book?
A: Yes, there is a small blurb, but the do not have a parent chapter.


Q: Are any of these caveats negative things (like the old 4th edition flaws)?
A: No. The caveat is we have not revealed all the abilities for some chapters.

Q: Is there any clue you can give us on the nature of these caveats?
A: There are many layers to the CTs (no negatives).

Q: Did the points cost change for Power Weapons?
A: Generally the same, per units choices.

Q: Did the points cost change for Power Fists?
A: PF same.

Q: How much do Crusader Squads pay for Power Weapons?
A: 15.

Q: Can the Initiate in a Crusader Squad take a Power Fist?
A: Yes at 25 points.

Q: How does the limit for the extra power weapon in the Crusader squad work. Is it just 1 Initiate or is it 1 per X number of models in the squad?
A: 1 Initiate and then upgrade one to Sword Brother and you can get another.

Q: How do scouts look?
A: The scouts went down 2 points and they can now take a Storm as a dedicated transport. They mostly stayed the same.

Q: How about Marines?
A: Tactical Marines are 14 points each.

Q: What do Raven Guard get?
A: Raven guard get stealth and the ability to use their jump packs in the movement and assault phase.

Q: What are the Imperial Fists chapter traits?
A: IF get bolter drill and that allows them to re-roll any 1s, it does not work with sternguard special rounds. Also Devs and Centurion Devs get Tank Hunters special Rules with a +1 on damaging buildings.

Q: What did Salamanders get?
A: Sallies get to re-roll any failed armor saves from flame based weapons, also with their flame weapons they get to re-roll any failed wounds or armor penetration that fail to cause a penetration or glancing hit. Also any character gets to master craft one weapon for free points.

Q: What's up with the new tanks?
A: both weapons are S7. The Hunter is AP2 and has armorbane so it should handle most flyers out there.

Q: What do the Templars look like?
A: Vows are gone. BT come with Chapter Tactics just like all the other marine army. One allows you to re-roll to hits rolls and rending, when you're in challenges. The other one gives you Adamantium Will and Crusader. Also their ally matrix did not change.

Q: How do homebrew/unknown lineage chapters work?
A: If you're an unknow founding or a home brew chapter you can pick what Chapter Tactics you want.

Q: What's the situation with Crusader Squads?
A: The crusader squads are cool because you can have up to two power weapons in the squad, if you take a Sword Brother. The Initiates are fourteen points and come with bolter, bolt pistol, frag, and krak. You may exchange the bolter for a ccw for the price of free.

Q: Any new wargear (along the lines of auspex from DA codex)?
A: There is new wargear for Chapter relics, 6 of them.

Q: How high is the rate of fire for the other AA tank?
A: Stalker has RoF 4 and the Hunter has RoF 1.

Q: Can you please confirm whether or not pure bike armies are no longer legal to field?
A: No you can not. You get the option to take 5 bikes as a troop if your captain has a bike, also your command squad can have bikes.

Q: Are storm ravens/storm talons in the book. or are we required to use "Death from the Skies"?
A: Yes they are in the book and you do not need Death from the Skies.

Q: Do UM retain their "fall-back from combat and may act normally" ability? Thanks in advance!
A: No that rule does not exist anymore. Like all the chapters their Chapter Tactics are set.

Q: What is going on with the Emperor's Champion?
A: The Emperor Champion is and HQ choice and for his points will be a good character hunter. Those abilities no longer exist, they're just gone. The chapter Tactics they get are called "Accept any Challenge, No Matter what the Odds" and "Crusaders"

Q: Does special characters still add the USRs/special rules that they have in this codex to your army/squad? EX: Shrike and Infiltrate? Pedro and +1 Attack aura?
A: Yes some SC still have USR that boost their army.

Q: Is it finally possible to take jump packs for our command squads?
A: No, Only bikes.

Q: Can you confirm/disprove the "special" Rhino variants that were rumoured? EX: Medical, Recovery, etc.
A: Those do not exist. That was wish listing.

Q: Could you shed some light on the UM special rules?
A: Ultra marines are a little lengthy but they choose the doctrines of Tactical, Assault, or Devstator. The Tactical detachment re-roll ones, unless they're tactical marines and they re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the shooting phase. The Assault detachment re-rolls charges, unless they're assault squads, bikes, attack bikes and they get fleet. The Devastator detachment get to re-rolls on snap shots and overwatch shots, unless they're Devastators and they gain relentless as long as they're not disembarking from a transport in the movement phase.

Q: Are there any special banners that can be taken? EX: Banner of Devastation from DA Codex, etc.
A: No, that is more wish listing. You can have the good old Chapter Banner.

Q: Did sternguard special ammo change at all?
A: Remained the same, SG went down to 22 points

Q: Are there any other scoring units besides sternguard, tac, and scouts?
A: Only Tac and scouts. SG if you take Kantor and 5 man bike squad if you take a Captain on a bike.

Q: Any changes at all to the Black Sword or is the EC just some sort of challenge monkey now? I wonder what "for his points will be a good character hunter" could mean.
A: EC has an AP2 sword striking at initiative and if you add the BT Chapter Tactics be becomes a challenge machine. He also has 2+/4+.

Q: Thank you so much, a final question, the BT situation sounds like we were better off with a 4th ed codex, do the special characters give anything special? What does Helbrecht and Grimaldus look like and do for the army?
A: No they do not add anything. They've been basically upgraded to 6th ed. For a BT will be happy with all the options they will have.

Q: Just out of curiosity, does Accept any challenge give them rending in Challenges, or allows them to reroll rending throws?
A: They have rending.

Q: Is there any way for Templars to have access to CC boosting USRs via characters?
A: Once per game Helbrecht can give Hatred and Fleet in the Assault phase. It only works on units with Chapter Tactics(Black Templars)

Q: Any idea if the Champion is still BT-only or they opened it up for other chapters that have them in the fluff (IF and CF for example)?
A: EC are only for BT armies.

Q: Is that 3-5 man bike squad as troops, or 5-10 man bike squads to count as troops? Also, is the attack bike still an upgrade to a bike squad, as well as a separate choice?
A: Its a 3-5 man. You can upgrade one to an attack bike.

Q: how big can a crusader squad be?
A: Up to 10 Initiates and up to 10 Neos.

Q: what USRs do Helbrecht and Grimaldus provide?
A: Grimaldus gives Zaelot

Q: what units are restricted to Templars?
A: Only librarians

Q: how do Castellans work?
A: You pick either a SM captain, Chapter Master or Termie Captain.

Q: Does the Emperor's Champion's sword still have the +2 to strength in addition to being AP2?
A: Yes if you pick that stances, but counts as two-handed. the other stances gives you rending.

Q: And does the 4++ invulnerability now work outside of close combat, too?
A: Yes he is always 2+/4+.

Q: can castellans/marshals take command squads
A: Yes they can take command squads, but they are just Captains now.

Q: can Helbrecht take an honor guard
A: Yes because he is a Chapter Master

Q: what USRs and where in the Force Org chart are normal chaplains
A: Chaplains are HQ and Zealot.

Q: which HQ choices actually take up a slot, and which ones don't
A: Chapter Masters, Captains, Chaplians, and Librarians. BT can not take librarians.

Q: did the costs of dedicated transports change?
A: Only major change to dedicated transports is the Storm moving there.

Q: also, do you mind sharing any changes to devestator costs or the potential load-outs for tac squads?
A: Devs went down. Close to Dark Angel book.

Q: any way to get 2 special weapons?
A: No way to get 2 specials.

Q: Are grav weapons solid shots or blast? Do they have any other special rules ex: haywire?
A: Solid shot and they have concussive

Q: Any improvements to dreads?
A: Dreads are basically the same.

Q: Are the whole range of Ultramarines Special Characters still in there?
Calgar, Tigurius, Cassius, Chronus, Telion, and Sicarius?
What do they do nowadays?
A: Yes all Ultra characters are in and are Virtually the same. Calgar can take three Warlord traits and went up in points. He's a beast.

Q: If BT indeed use regular SM Chaplain entry, do the chaplains have two or three wounds, and two or three base attacks?
A: W2 A2

Q: Does Lysander give any special rules?
A: No. He went up in points but he is still gnarly.

Q: Can Sternguard become Troops?
A: No they can not. Kantor allows them to be scoring.

Q: Does Lysander still have Eternal Warrior?
A: Yes, he still has EW.

Q: You covered BT, UM, Ravenguard, Fists, Salamanders, and Iron Hands. Is that all of the chapters? Or are there more special chapter rules for other chapters?
A: If you play a successor chapter you will use the Chapter Tactics of the Founding Chapters. The codex covers a lot of the successor chapters.

Q: So to confirm, you can't take an all bike army?
A: Yes but you have to take 2 captains so you can get two bike squads to be troops.

Q: Any change to Honor Guard?
A: They went down in points. That is their big change.

Q: Is there any way to get an extra attack on tacticals? Such as a combat blade?
A: There is no way to do that.

Q: Did Vindicators change in price or function?
A: Right about same points. No big change, basically the same.

Remember that CF with use the Imperial Fist Chapter Tactics.

Vanguard Veterans are 19pts without jump pack and 22 points with jump pack. Heroic Intervention does not work the same as last codex.

Q: Can we just get the whole Centurion statline out of the way once and for all?
A: WS/BS 4 S/T 5 W2 I4 LD8/9 Sv 2+

Q: Any changes to Shrike or Kor'sarro?
A: Shrike can only infiltrate with jump infantry.
Khan give scout to bikes and mounted troops. His bike does D3 Hammer of Wrath hits.

Q: For salamanders. Do flame weapons include melta and flamestom cannon. Also what does vulkan do for the army?
A: Only for flame weapons covered on page 56 of the Rulebook. Meltas get twin-linked if you take Vulkan.

Q: For BT Chapter tactics, is the reroll and rending only in a challenge? Or is it reroll all the time and rending in challenge?
A: Yes that is only in a challenge. When in a challenge you get to re-roll your To Hit rolls and all attacks have rending.

Q: How many attacks do the Centurians have?
A: 1A and Sgt 2A. The drills give a bonus attack to the assault version...

Q: Would you happen to know if the capacity on the land raider is still 12?
A: LR = 10, LRC = 16, and LRR = 12

Q: Are there terminator command squads?
A: No Termie command squads.

Q: What buffs does Lysander have other than EW?
A: Gives all units in 12" with Chapter Tactics (IF), re-roll on morale and pinning test.

Q: So only characters benefit from the BT chapter tactic?
A: Yes for challenges. Your army also gets Crusader USR and Adamantium Will USR.

Q: What does Grimauldus specifically give? You mentioned Zealot, is that army wide?
A: No army wide rule. Zealot USR works for him and the unit he is in. If a units is within 6" of the servitors they get a 6+ invul.

Q: Any special characters for Iron Hands?
A: No Iron Hands Characters.

Q: Any changes to the Master of the Forge?
A: Master of the forge is almost the same. He will get "It Will not Die" USR and a 1+ to Blessing of the Omnissiah from the IH Chapter Tactics.

Q: Is it possible to give the MoF invl save now? < big iron hands player wanna run a themed force with ironfather HQ but i think ill need the invl for CC
A: Looks like 6+ FNP will be the best you can get unless you take a Chapter Relic, which gives a 6+ invul.

Q: Is that +1 to the blessing for IHs a specific rule of the MoF or part of the IH traits that applied to all techmarines?
A: +1 is only for IH Chapter Tactics

Q: And does bolter drill still work on all bolt weapons (minus the sternguards) or just rifles/combirifles?
A: All Bloters on page 56 of Rulebook and combi-wepon bolters. You can not use it on the special ammo that the sternguard use.

Q: What are the White Scars Chapter Traits?
A: +1 to jink save, Auto pass on dangerous terrain, +1 to Hammer of Wrath attacks, Hit and Run except for termies and both sets of Centurions.

Q: What does Khan do?
A: He gives Bikes and Transports the Scout USR

Q: What are the options for the Crusader Squads?
A: Crusader squads are basically the same as last BT. You get the option of a Sword Brother upgrade(Vet sgt). So you could put 2 power weapons in one squad. There can still be up to 20 models in one unit.

Q: Has Marneus Calgar changed at all?
A: Calgar gets three warlord traits, his armor does not prevent him from preforming a sweeping advance, and he went up in points. He's a supreme badass but you pay for it.

Q: Are those big fists on the shooty Centurions powerfists? What about the assault version- do they strike at initiative because they have Ironclad assault launchers?
A: Centurion Devs do not have PF. The Assult Centurions do strike at initiative, the drills are not unwieldy.

Q: Are black templar's still prohibited from allying with non-grey knight psykers? (Sanctified Psykers, Inquisitors with Psionics, etc)
A: BT are still Ally of Convenience. You will still follow the rule book.

Q: And does the Emperor's champion take up a force organization slot?
A: No.

Q: What chief librarian tigurius? Is going to give other pysker's a run for their money?
A: I think Tigurius is easily the most improved SC. He will be very tempting for Ultramarine players and he comes in relatively cheap. Overall A+ over last edition.

Q: Can the Emperor's Champion be taken as the Warlord?
A: Yes because he is taken as a HQ choice.

Q: Is Calgar above 300 points?
A: Calgar is 275

Q: Have TH/SS termies gone up in price?
A: TH/SS Terminators cost +5 points

Q: What're the rules for the Assault Centurion's drills?
A: S9 AP2 Melee, Specialist Weapon, armorbane, strikes at initiative

Q: What is Grimaldus' stat line like? Any variations from a standard chaplain? And does he have anything like Eternal warrior or IWND?
A: He has "It will not Die", no EW.

Q: Any special BT items or upgrades?
A: Nothing special for Black Templars, you just get the full access to the codex. So you get Vanguard, Sternguard, Centurion and so on. You have the ability to put multiple power weapons in crusader squads. One is a non-character which can not be challenged. You get to hide a power weapon.

Q: Is there any limitations to the EC? Can anybody take one?
A: EC can only be taken by BT and they're a HQ choice.

Q: Is a "Castellan" a BT sgt in a vet squad?
A: Castellans are gone. Vet Sgts are Sword Brothers.

Q: Mind a rundown of the 6 Chapter Relics?
A: he relics consist of two swords, one bolter, set of armor, one storm shield and one banner.

Q: Are there Space Marine Warlord Traits?
A: Yes, one chart for all armies.

Q: Does Imperial Fist Bolter drill give rerolls to hit and to wound of 1? Or just to hit?
A: To hit rolls of 1's.

Q: Is Telion cheaper/different?
A: Telion is the same points and all updated with sniper rules for 6th

Q: Same with Chronus? Is he worth considering now?
A: Chronus is cheaper but still not worth it. Just increases the BS by 1

Q: Is the basic Chapter Master differentiated from a Captain with more than orbital bombardment?
A: CM has A4 and W4 and access to honor guard as command squad.

Q: Does the command squad of a master have better/different options than a captain?
A: It's Honor Guard.

Q: Is the Storm Raven more expensive in these new rules? Different in any other ways?
A: Storm Raven stayed 200 points.

Q: What sort of special tricks does Tigirius bring to the list?
A: Tight is ML 3, knows all disciplines, he can re-roll his dice when determining his psychic powers, he can re-roll reserves(even successful ones), HoH is a psychic hood and he can re-roll failed psychic test.

Q: are drop pods still 12 to a pod?
A: Dop pod is back to 10.

Q: Landraider redeemer the same?
A: LRR is 12

Q: How is Heroic Intervention different?
A: They do not get the penalty for disordered charge and Sgt auto passes initiative check for Glorious Intervention.

Q: Two small questions on the new tanks: what are their AV values? And do either of them have interceptor?
A: AV 12 12 10 and no interceptor, I repeat no interceptor.

Q: Do the Vanguard Veterans still get to assault the turn they deep strike jump packs then?
A: No. That rule is gone.

Q: How many wounds and attacks does Grimaldus have?
A: Grim is W3/A3

Q: And are Reclusiarchs in the codex?
A: Reclusiarchs are gone. There is one Chaplain to chose from.

Q: For those with non first founding chapter & BT, is there a system of making your own chapter tactics(like the chapter traits from the 4th edition codex)?
A: No. You will have to chose out of the Chapter Tactics provide.

Q: Did the predator tanks and devestators have their prices modified in the codex?
A: They both got point decreases.

Q: Is the old Power Armored Marneus Calgar mini nonexistent?
A: He's in Artificer armor. For 10 points more he gets Termie armor.

Q: Are there any new Ultramarine Characters?
A: No new characters.

Q: Does Orbital Bombardment still exist?
A: Yes

Q: Is Calgar's Termie Armor the same? Built in Teleport Homer, or does it do anything special?
A: Same, but let's you sweeping advance in Terminator Armor and still has homer.

Q: There are so many BT on because we are getting screwed by GW who is basically trying to make us in to a lame variant of a codex chapter, something we are definitely not. The more I read, the less I want to continue playing 40K.
A: I think the BT are better. You have more options than you know what to do with and most if not all of your troops are cheaper. It's not that bad.

Another BT player raising his complaints....
Q: More options but if CC crusaders are not getting any bonus in CC then BT are WORSE in CC then with the 4th ed book and because termies will get 1 less heavy weapon in a squad of 5 BT Gunline will have less missiles
A: Those things had gone they way of the dodo bird a half a decade ago. Even if they got their own dex there ways no way that you were still going to get two heavy weapons in five termies and other outdated rules.

Squads are just as good as there 4th codex iteration. They're cheaper, they come with frag/krak grenades, up to two power weapons, 2 flyer types, and the list goes on. There are far more pluses than minuses.

If you were banking on rules that are old and outdated then you will be disappointed. If you look at all the options then you will be excited about the possibility and the flexibility that the new dex offers.

Back to the Q&A:

Q: Ironclads the same?
A: Ironclads are the same.

Q: About Honor Guard, have they gotten cheaper? Has the chapter champion got more bad ass or is he still...meh?
A: Honorguard are cheaper and the company champion is the same, at least he's cheaper.

Q: landspeeders the same? Or similar to the dark angels cost wise? Doubt they get 1-5 too.
A: Speeders are 1-3

Q: What about Cassius and Sicarius?
A: 1)Sicarius is 15 points cheaper and basically the same.2)Cassius is 5 points more.

Q: Any change regarding the Whirlwind?
A: Nope. Missiles do the same and its 65 points.

Q: Does IF bolter drill only apply to boltguns/bolt pistols (minus special ammo) or does it apply to hvy and hurricane bolters as well?
A: It works on every bolter on page 56 of the rule book. Hurricane bolters already get a re-roll and you can't re-roll a re-roll.

Q: Can you give the full breakdown of grav-weapons? S value? how do they work v. vehicles? difference between grav gun and grav cannon?
A: Grav weapons wound the target based on their armor save. For example a terminator has a 2+ save so they would be wounded on a die roll of 2+. Against vehicles roll a die, 1-5 does nothing and on a 6 the vehicle is immobilized and loses a HP.

Q: Did the Codex Powers change?
A: They use the psychic powers out of the rule book, so null zone and the other powers are gone.

Q: What are te ranges on the new Grav Guns? Are they rapid fire?
A: Pistol: Range 12", Gun: 18" salvo 2/3, and Cannon: 24" salvo 3/5

Q: Did the dreadnoughts gain any rules (like the rumored Inspiring Presence)?
A: No, I think that's more wish listing.

Q: Do the Devs get Flakk Missles?
A: Yes. They have to pay and additional 10 points.

Q: Can Honor Guard get and invunerable now (storm shields)?
A: No.

Q: Is there some caveat to the first half of the UM tactical rule (like..i don't know,does not work on heavy weapons for example...) or is it just a plain better version of the IF one even without the extra bonus for tactical squads?
A: It will work on any weapon that rolls a 1, while the IF only works on bolter type weapons.

Q: How many points are the Scout Bikes?
A: 18 points

Q: Did they change the Cereberus launcher on the LS storm? used to be -2 leadership to enemies assaulted after disembarking.
A: It's not the same. It's range 18" S 2 large blast Blind.

Q: Do BT get Land Raider Redeemers as Dedicated, or only Land Raider Crusaders?
A: Just LRC.

Q: Out of intrest, is there anything in the book that stops BT from allying with a psyker? (I know they cant take one)
A: Im not seeing anything that will stop you from allying.

Q: Any change to the Sternguard ammo types?
A: Same as before

Q: Who can take the Grav Weapons?
A: Basically anyone who can take special weapons or pistol upgrades. They heavy one is only on the Dev Centurions.

Q: How much cheaper are Honor Guard exactly?
A: They dropped 25 points.

Q: Does the Signum still work the same?
A: Yes it give one member BS5

Q: So they actually gave the straight better rule to ultramarines (at least with other chapters they have different rules...Here it's just...better)...That makes me kind of sad.
A: Not really you have to invest a lot points into Tac squads and there essentially picking your army for you.

Q: Do you have the points cost for AA tanks?
A: Stalker = 70, Hunter = 75

Q: Do any units have Interceptor?
A: No.

Q: Has libby base cost decreased?
A: Yes, Psyker down to 65 points.

Q: Oh, do the Chaplains get any melee weapon options, or are they stuck with Crozius only?
A: They have other power weapon options and they can also have Chapter Relics.

Q: With the Ultramarines Chapter Trait do you choose, or is it based on how you build your army?
A: You choose but it will kind of force yourhand to build a certain way to take advantage of CT.

Q: Do Grav have haywire as some early rumors suggested?
A: Grav have concussive.

Q: On the stalker model it seems that its two weapon turrets can move seperatly, there was also a rumour before that they could split fire. Is there any indication of this or does the stalker simply have a s7 heavy 4 gun?
A: You're very astute. There is an option to fire at two targets with a lowered BS.

Q: What are the specs of the flame launcher on LoD with ignores cover USR?
A: All shooting attacks ignore cover saves.

Q: Do we get interrogator chappie/reclusiarch?
A: No, basic Chaplain for all.

Q: Did shooty Terminators get better/cheaper?
A: Heavy Flamer went up in points, while assault cannon and cyclone saw a same points decrease.

Q: How many points costs Tigurius now?
A: 165 points. Down 65 points.

Q: How much do ML 1 and 2 librarians cost?
A: ML1 = 65 and ML2 is a 25 point upgrade.

Q: Does Thunderfire Cannons get any advantage of IH Chapter Tactics? I mean, FNP or It never dies? Their techmarine gets de +1 on Omnissiah's blessing?
A: Yes the Techmarine would get FNP, +1 Omniissiah, and it will not die.

Q: Has auxillary grenade launcher changed?
A: 24" rapid fire.

Q: Are Tactical Squads basically the same as in Codex Dark Angels, as far as organisation and equipment options go?
A: Yes

Q: Grav Amp lets you reroll wounds, that's the only information on it that has come out so far.
A: Grav Amp allows you to re-roll failed wounds and armor penetration with grav weapons.

Q: Are Vanguard Vets for sure FA or Elites?
A: They are elite.

Q: Does Vulkan get Eternal Warrior?
A: No.

Q: How many points is Vukan and does he still mastercraft Thunder Hammers?
A: Vulcan is 190 and he no longer upgrades thunder hammers to MC.

Q: Can you mix your army. Like have some units be ultra marines and others be salamanders?
A: Yes. They're allowed to ally out of the same codex.

Q: Can Independent Characters (captain, chapter masters, techmarines,etc) take centurion armour as part of their wargear?
A: No, that is not a wargear option.

Q: Can non-Black Templar armies (homebrew/unknown founding chapters) choose the Black Templar Chapter Trait? If they can do they have to take Crusader Squads instead of Tactical Squads?
A: The writing on it is a little vague. I would say yes but it may need a FAQ to clear it up.

Q: Any Salamander Relics?
A: No Sally Relics. The are space marine relics shared by all chapters.

Q: Any idea how grav weapons work against units with mixed armor saves ie Dlord + Wraiths?
A: It does not but I would figure you would wound on the majority armor save.

Q: And do Chapter traits work for allied detachments?
A: No, some SC characters have abilities that effect other units but they must have the same CT to receive that bonus.

Q: Any new pieces of common wargear like DA got (auspexes, infravisors, power field generators, etc.)?
A: Mostly grav weapons, Omniscopes, new weapon types for the AA weapons and generally moving wargear to be inline with 6th Ed.

Q: I keep hearing Vulkan twinlinks Melta and is the same, although it would be a mercy if someone came out and said there are no MC thunder hammers. Can you please confirm? Also I just saw on Natfka that Sallies get to re-roll armour saves from flame weapons including Melta- does this mean invul saves as well?
A: 1)Vulkan TL meltas
2) He does not master craft TH anymore.
3) Only works on flame weapons which are on 56 of the Rulebook.

Q: How many points for Kantor and Vulcan?
A: 1)Kantor 185
2)Vulkan 190

Q: Sorry - meant if you have an allied detachment of say Ultramarines with Tau, do the Ultramarines still benefit from CT despite being Allies?
A: Yes, their abilities will work on that detachment. They do not lose CT for allying.

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1397751#post1397751

Q: Do the AA tanks have to snapshot at ground targets (i.e. do they only have skyfire, but no interceptor?)
A: AA tanks do not have interceptor.

Q: Does honour guard get to keep both their weapon and 2+ save for their new low price?
A: HG get Arti armor and power weapons.

Q: Does Helbrecht gain Orbital Bombardment?
A: Helbrecht does not.

Q: Does Kantor still keep his 12" +1A bubble?
A: yes Kantor does.

Q: Thanks for the answer, do crusader squads have any other special rule besides ATSKNF and Chapter tactics?
A: No BT do not.

Q: How many points is a LS typhoon?
A: Typhoon 75 points

Q: How many points for a Dakka Pred/Las Pred?
A: Las 140 and Dakka 95

Q: Did they reduce the cost of the Captain?
A: Captain is 90

Q: Can models with different chapter tactics be in the same detachment? i.e. Can I take UM and IF in the same primary army then ally in some DA if I wanted them?
A: No they would have to ally those detachments together.

Q: How does work sergeants on tac squads? there is an extra cost for sergeant and veteran sergeant like dark angels?
A: Same as DA

Q: Any changes on attack bikes in cost, size of unit, etc.?
A: Attack bikes are now 45

Q: Is there any unit or weapon in the new codex with Interceptor rule?
A: No

Q: Any changes on Land Speeders?
A: Same

Q: Are crusader squad availabe to other chapter tactics than BT?
A: No

Q: Do Kantor and Helbrecht both have W4 A4 like the generic chapter masters now apparently get?
A: Yes

Q: Are Lysander's stats the same, wounds and such?
A: Same

Q: Legion of the damned weapon costs and special rules?
A: Went down and all their shooting attacks ignore cover.

Q: Can you go a little bit deeper into what the Chapter Relics are?
A: Going to cover on the show.

Q: Am I right to assume that generaly speaking, the costs of units and vehicles that are also in the DA book are the same as they are in that book?
A: Pretty close to each other.

Q: Is the Storm Talon the same cost as in Death from the Skies?
A: Yes.

Q: Can you use characters from a different Chapter than the one whose trait you are using? In other words, can I make an Iron Hands chapter but still use Tigurius, for example?
A: No.

Q: Does the Tactical trait affect only infantry units or does it affect vehicles too?
A: Yes.

Q: Do SM get their own Warlord Traits table, and if so, what are the traits?
A: Yes, we will cover it on the show.

Q: Does Calgar get to pick his traits or does he just get 3 rolls on the tables?
A: Three rolls on the chart, re-roll doubles.

Q: how do Grav weapons work on models who don't have armor saves (like Daemons)?
A: I would say a 5+, might be FAQed.

Q: Any change to shotguns?
A: Shotguns S4 assault 2.

Q: When you say you can ally out of the same codex, is that through the actual ally rules, or that you can mix two armies and their Chapter tactics?
A: You have to ally the two detachments.

Q: Raven Guard CT: is Stealth handed out to Vehicles too?
A: Yes, models in the detachment gain stealth.

Q: Khan: How much does he cost? How much does Moondrakkan cost?
A: Khan 125 and bike 25.

Q: Has the war gear for normal terminators changed .... Ie Can they take combi weapons?
A: No

Q: Any improvements to regular captains not previously mentioned? ie cheaper or wargear options besides the relics?
A: Pretty close to the same.

Q: Terminators of either type cheaper?
A: No.

Q: Scout bikers still lay mines or is that different?
A: Yes.

Q: Can we get elaboration on the Stalker? All I know right now is "S:7 Heavy4"
A: S7 AP4 Range 48"

Q: Can it split fire or something?
A: You can split fire

Q: Any special rules, or is it basically just two glorified AA-Autocannons?
A: Glorified Autocannon

Q: What is the range on the Hunter's gun?
A: 60"

Q: The Ultramarines' Tactical Doctrine only re-rolls 1's for shooting, right?

Q: Have Tigurius' stats changed at all?
A: Stats are the same.

Q: Does a bike Captain only make a bike squad a Troop if it numbers exactly 5 bikes, or or can it be a full "8 man + attack bike" squad?
A: At least 5 bikes can be up to 8.

Q: Anything changed with assault squads? Can they be taken as troops?
A: 17pts and can't be troops.

Q: Can command and honor guard take jump packs?
A: No.

Q: Do librarians have invuln saves? If not, can they buy them as upgrades?
A: Only in Terminator Armor.

Q: Do any of the characters or chapter tactics give fearless or stubborn?
A: No

Q: What about assault squads? Did their cost decrease a little too? Can they finally take meltaguns?
A: 17 Points and No Melta Guns.

Q: So for clarification on the bikes: any 1 bike unit of at least 5 models (of which one may be upgraded to an attack bike) can be a troop choice per captain on a bike in your army?
A: Correct.

Q: How many base attacks do Centurions have?
A: Centurions have A1. Centurion Sergeants have A2.

Q: Beyond being 15 pts cheaper, any changes to Sicarius?
A: You get +1 to reserves and no longer seize the initiative on a 5 or 6.

Q: How many power weapons can a Crusader squad take (besides the Sergeant) and is there an option to take a pair of lighting claws (either for normal BT marines or the Sergeant)
A: Power Weapon or Power Fist.

Q: Just to make sure I got it right, Honor Guard get: artificer armour, power weapon, Bolter and bolt pistol for 25 points? That sounds like a good deal even if they don't have a invul save.
A: Yes, but don't forget about the frag and krak grenades.

Q: Does the Ultramarine Tactical Doctrine trait (Rerolling Ones for non-tatical marines) apply to vehicles? (The answer before was unclear)
A: Yes, it says "models" in the detatchment. Vehicles are models.

Q: Does the rule for not taking non-chapter characters apply to Telion?
A: Telion is marked as an Ultramarine character and has CT(Ultramarines).

Q: Just to confirm, chapter tactics affect all models in a detachment, to include vehicles, unless otherwise stated, correct?
A: Yes.

Q: Lastly, is each gun on the Stalker Heavy 4 or is each gun Heavy 2?
A: Stalker is Heavy 4. There is an ability to fire at two separate targets. That will be covered on the next show.

Q: Does the Stalker and Hunter have Skyfire?

A: Yes, but they do not have interceptor.

16-08-2013 - List of releases and pictures of the new models
Spoiler:
Space Marine Codex ($58)
176 pages. The author is Robin Cruddace. Cover is a close up of an Ultramarine pointing forward into battle.

Limited Edition Codex ($115, direct only)
500 copies only for each book (numbered endpaper)

1. Iron Hands
2. Imperial Fists
3. Ultramarines
4. Ravenguard
5. Salanders
6. White Scars
7. Second Founding Edition (Black Templar cover with many chapter symbols vertically along right border and Crimson Fists dust jacket)


War Zone: Damnos ($33)
68 pages. The author is Phil Kelly. War Zone for apocalypse featuring Damnos.

Space Marine Reclusiam Command Squad ($90, bundle deal)
Bundle deal that includes a Razorback, a 5 man Command Squad and a Chaplain

Chaplain, Captain and Librarian (30$, plastic single figure blisters)

Librarian:

Captain:


Space Marine Tactical Squad ($40, 10 plastic models)






Space Marine Sternguard ($50, 5 plastic models)








Space Marine Vanguard Veteran Squad (40$, 5 plastic models)




Centurions (78$, 3 plastic models)
Built as Assault Squad:

Built as Devastator Squad:

Backview detail:


Space Marine Stalker/Hunter ($65, plastic dual-kit)
Stalker version:

Hunter version:


Pre-orders should be up 31-08-2013, with the release scheduled for 07-09-2013.

03-08-2013 - Initial rumours from Best_Pone
Spoiler:
Best_Pone over at Warseer, who was also spot on with his High Elf, Eldar, Apocalypse and Black Legion rumours, had this to say about the new Codex: Space Marines:

Best_Pone wrote:Up for release in September is the new Codex: Space Marines.

- There will be 7 Ltd Ed varients. 6 of these will be covers for First Founding chapters, whilst the 7th will have Black Templars on the cover.

- New weapon family: Grav weapons. I believe these wound against the armour save (so terminators would be wounded as if they had a toughness of 2).

- First Founding chapters will be getting a substantial section each to themselves, so hopefully this can be looked as as Codex: Space Marines instead of Codex: Ultramarines. This will also show in a rule called Chapter Tactics, for which the effects depend on the chapter being played.

- There is a new armour type that at first glance looks to be somewhere between a terminator and a dreadnought - looking more closely, it appears to go over the marine's power armour however.
- This new armour can be armed in 2 ways, depending on the user. The devastator version has either a bolter array or missile launchers mounted on the chest armour, whilst the gauntlets can be armed with heavy bolters, lascannons or grav cannons. The assault version has a bolter array or frag launchers mounted on the chest armour, with assault drills mounted on the gauntlets.

- There are 2 new AA tanks. One tank veterans will already be familiar with as the Hunter, armed an AA missile launcher. The other tank mounts 2 tri-barreled turrets instead.

- There is a new tactical squad. Lots of options as you'd expect, but of particular interest will probably be the grav pistol and grav rifle.

- A new plastic Sternguard veteran squad.

- A new plastic Vanguard veteran squad.

- New plastic characters: a captain, a librarian and a chaplain.

Hopefully this will finally dispel the consistent rumours about the SM getting some mega-dreadnought.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:06:40


Post by: BryllCream


There is nothing in that post that I do not like.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:06:52


Post by: OverwatchCNC


While I buy all my codices in the iBook form now I may need to buy a hardcover too if these rumors are true and they have a Salamanders cover.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:08:04


Post by: Marshall Ragnar


These sound amazing! Time to go non a ramen noodle diet so I can get all the new toys!


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:08:18


Post by: kitch102


All sounds great apart from the new armour, basically we have SM XV88'S


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:09:22


Post by: BrotherVord


Wouldn't this confirm that black Templars are being rolled into c:sm? Or is that old news?

Sad if that's the case, everything else sounds nice though


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:11:06


Post by: Redemption


BrotherVord wrote:
Wouldn't think confirm that black Templars are being rolled into c:sm? Or is that old news?

Sad if that's the case, everything else sounds nice though

Yeah, pretty much a confirmation. That Black Templars are listed under the general SM in the base rule book instead of their own section like DA, SW and BA was really the first hint.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:11:07


Post by: Theophony


power armor on top of power armor and weapon load outs to be like a tau battle suit. New plastic characters, vanguards and stern guards sound good along with the AA tanks, but the rest sounds rubbish.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:13:53


Post by: Goldshield



Hmm was hoping Crimson Fists might be one of the covers since all this stuff was coming out that BT was getting their own book.

Other then that, bring on the Plastic Sternies and Vannies. Papa want.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:22:11


Post by: LegioX217


No new assault marines ? Or I wonder if vanguard vets will be a dual kit. Either way sounds nice. So what 6 first founding get a book , everyone but BA DA SW?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:24:25


Post by: dienekes96


Plastic vets and new tac squads is exactly what will sell. And a lot more than some big robot unit, which will be a splash and then forgotten in a few weeks.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:26:41


Post by: Redemption


LegioX217 wrote:
No new assault marines ? Or I wonder if vanguard vets will be a dual kit. Either way sounds nice. So what 6 first founding get a book , everyone but BA DA SW?

There are only 9 First Founding loyalist chapters, 3 of which have their own codex (BA, DA & SW). So all of the remaining loyalist First Founding chapters will have a limited edition book:

- Ultramarines
- White Scars
- Imperial Fists
- Iron Hands
- Salamanders
- Raven Guard


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:31:15


Post by: jah-joshua


damn, it's gonna be a long month, waiting to see pics of my next new toys...
this is the release i have been waiting all year for...

cheers
jah


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:32:06


Post by: Redemption


Pictures will probably leak somewhere in 3.5 weeks, so you'll have to be patient a little while longer.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:34:58


Post by: Dysartes


Technically incorrect - the first Founding resulted (post-Heresy) in 9 Loyalist Legions.

The Second Founding was when we got the Chapters as we know them today. The 9 Legions were broken down into the 9 Progenitor Chapters, which inherited the Legion's name, and an unknown number of Successor Chapters (though around 40 have been mentioned in official GW sources, to my knowledge).


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:44:13


Post by: timetowaste85


Well, crap. I want a BT codex. Maybe a cover will have to do.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:46:28


Post by: TechMarine1


Well, I guess it's time to start saving my money.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:47:31


Post by: Roboute


Somebody at GW's been reading John Ringo's Legacy of the Aldenata series. Space Marines in bigger suits, armed with grav weapons?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:51:20


Post by: TechMarine1


 Roboute wrote:
Somebody at GW's been reading John Ringo's Legacy of the Aldenata series. Space Marines in bigger suits, armed with grav weapons?


Or starship troopers


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:54:41


Post by: Ascalam


Or going back to older 40k gear.

Graviton guns guns are back.... next up will be the fething Virus Outbreak card rising from the grave to molest my poor Orks again


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:55:10


Post by: Tannhauser42


I wonder how many people will buy one of each of the limited edition books to have a complete set? There's gotta be at least one person out there nutty enough to do it.

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if the Vanguard box will be a dual kit, and can be used to make regular assault marines.

The power armor on top of power armor? Why? I mean, apart from selling us models we don't already have. Just like the AA tank. They could just as easily give the Whirlwind an option to fire AA missiles along with its normal loadout, but, again, they feel the need to make an all new model to sell us.

And an all new gun? If they're going to give us something new like that, why not give us the Volkite weaponry from the HH book, rather than something mostly unheard of?

I understand GW's need to make all the Space Marine players run out and buy all new models, but there are still more intelligent ways of doing it.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:56:07


Post by: FarseerAndyMan


 Redemption wrote:
Best_Pone over at Warseer, who was also spot on with his High Elf, Eldar, Apocalypse and Black Legion rumours, had this to say about the new Codex: Space Marines:

Best_Pone wrote:Up for release in September is the new Codex: Space Marines.

- There will be 7 Ltd Ed varients. 6 of these will be covers for First Founding chapters, whilst the 7th will have Black Templars on the cover.

- New weapon family: Grav weapons. I believe these wound against the armour save (so terminators would be wounded as if they had a toughness of 2).

- First Founding chapters will be getting a substantial section each to themselves, so hopefully this can be looked as as Codex: Space Marines instead of Codex: Ultramarines. This will also show in a rule called Chapter Tactics, for which the effects depend on the chapter being played.

- There is a new armour type that at first glance looks to be somewhere between a terminator and a dreadnought - looking more closely, it appears to go over the marine's power armour however.
- This new armour can be armed in 2 ways, depending on the user. The devastator version has either a bolter array or missile launchers mounted on the chest armour, whilst the gauntlets can be armed with heavy bolters, lascannons or grav cannons. The assault version has a bolter array or frag launchers mounted on the chest armour, with assault drills mounted on the gauntlets.

- There are 2 new AA tanks. One tank veterans will already be familiar with as the Hunter, armed an AA missile launcher. The other tank mounts 2 tri-barreled turrets instead.

- There is a new tactical squad. Lots of options as you'd expect, but of particular interest will probably be the grav pistol and grav rifle.

- A new plastic Sternguard veteran squad.

- A new plastic Vanguard veteran squad.

- New plastic characters: a captain, a librarian and a chaplain.

Hopefully this will finally dispel the consistent rumours about the SM getting some mega-dreadnought.



I know what I like and I like ALL OF THAT!!!


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:57:24


Post by: dragqueeninspace


I really hope the next must have MC is not a SM babycarrier.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:58:14


Post by: LegioX217


 Redemption wrote:
LegioX217 wrote:
No new assault marines ? Or I wonder if vanguard vets will be a dual kit. Either way sounds nice. So what 6 first founding get a book , everyone but BA DA SW?

There are only 9 First Founding loyalist chapters, 3 of which have their own codex (BA, DA & SW). So all of the remaining loyalist First Founding chapters will have a limited edition book:

- Ultramarines
- White Scars
- Imperial Fists
- Iron Hands
- Salamanders
- Raven Guard


That's what I thought. So its an annoying time to be a BA or SW player, as now they will be even more outdated and overpriced lol


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 16:58:27


Post by: Kroothawk


 Theophony wrote:
power armor on top of power armor

Yo dawg, I heard you like power armour ...
Now the sergeant can remove two layers of helmets for extra squishiness

Just to add this often quoted video for truth:



Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 17:01:34


Post by: Luke_Prowler


Yo dawg, I heard you like power armor...
Edit: ffffffffff dang it Kroothawk

While I'm not a SM player, I am rather interested how some of these new units work, as well as seeing what they do with chapter tactics. I really hope it's just some small buffs connected to the generic HQ and is not just the 3rd edition rules or more special characters


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 17:26:36


Post by: DiabolicAl


Awwww man i'm gonna be SOOO broke.

The only question is do we get £30 10 man boxes or 5 man £20 quid boxes...


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 17:30:14


Post by: Yodhrin


I can live with this. The "Power armour for your power armour so you can power in your armour" thing sounds completely ridiculous, and may well end up being completely ridiculous, but they may also provide some interesting counts-as rules and conversion bitz fodder, and they could even completely surprise everyone by being really well executed( ). The "not a Whirlwind, honest guv" tank box seems a bit money-grubberish, but I'll wait and see what's in the box before I judge it. Everything else sounds really cool, if a little surprising, particularly if the Tac squad box ends up being completely new, rather than just a recut with a couple of new options. The 1st Founding sections are particularly appealing.

My pessimist-alarm is going off at full "red alert" though, since a book with love for the Iron Hands, a core plastic unit refresh, and no Ultimus Deathnaught giant kit sounds too good to be true.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 17:36:48


Post by: sockwithaticket


Like the sound of everything other than power armour squared, and grav weapons.

New plastic kits may sorely tempt me from my no new GW vow...


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 17:38:03


Post by: Davor


 Theophony wrote:
power armor on top of power armor and weapon load outs to be like a tau battle suit. New plastic characters, vanguards and stern guards sound good along with the AA tanks, but the rest sounds rubbish.


Reminds me of the mech in Robotech. Forget the name, but when it was the Unseen in Battletech it was called the Crusader. This is the first thing I thought of when I read it. Now I wonder if Harmony Gold can sew GW for taking thier Original Idea lol.

So what happened to the rumours that BT will not be put into the SM codex book.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 17:43:48


Post by: Zweischneid


Davor wrote:


So what happened to the rumours that BT will not be put into the SM codex book.


They are still out there. Rumours contradict each other. Happens.

And it still kinda makes sense that Black Templars would get the Heavy Chainsword currently in the rulebook (but not used by any army, similar to how Eldar got Vector Dancer). But that would kinda necessitate a unique Black Templar release with miniatures for the heavy chainsword, which isn't part of this set of rumours.



Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 17:45:10


Post by: sockwithaticket


Interesting that these rumours mention:

- detailed chapter tactics section
- Lots of space dedicated to first founding chapters
- Black Templars section

when we have rumours of a fairly extensive supplement list for codex chapters and a Black Templar codex.

How much salt do we need, and for which set of rumours?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 17:45:39


Post by: Davor


 Zweischneid wrote:
Davor wrote:


So what happened to the rumours that BT will not be put into the SM codex book.


They are still out there. Rumours contradict each other. Happens.

And it still kinda makes sense that Black Templars would get the Heavy Chainsword currently in the rulebook (but not used by any army, similar to how Eldar got Vector Dancer). But that would kinda necessitate a unique Black Templar release with miniatures for the heavy chainsword, which isn't part of this set of rumours.



So would this be a BT supplement then? This I can see if true, anger alot of BT players, making them by 2 books to play their army they so love.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 17:47:05


Post by: Erasoketa


So, I won't be having a BT Codex and I'm guessing the LE cover will be only in English. I hope that Chapter Tactics rule will be wide enough to make Templars similar to what they were.

Also, plastic kits for units previously existing in metal or finecast are always good news.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 17:51:01


Post by: unmercifulconker





That is all.

Edit: There is just one.....little worry erm.... what err... WHATS THIS MEAN FOR BT?!


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 17:51:24


Post by: Zweischneid


Davor wrote:


So would this be a BT supplement then? This I can see if true, anger alot of BT players, making them by 2 books to play their army they so love.


Can't tell you.

My gut feeling tells me BT will not be rolled into the main Space Marines Codex. The kinda ranty "Codex: Space Marines instead of Codex: Ultramarines" also makes me doubt this set of rumours as (at least partly) wish-listing, rather than inside information. Also, lack of a big kit (whether Flyer, Walker or otherwise, I'd bet GW would do something "large").

Than again, Best_Pone is supposed to be a reliable rumour-source, so what do I know.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 17:54:18


Post by: zearas


As a BT player ill take what I can get


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 17:54:49


Post by: d3m01iti0n


Rumor monger probably saw the seperate BT codex. We were assured by GW writers that no current codecies will be lost. Im not worried in the least.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 17:55:57


Post by: Malika2


I'm not buying it. We always get this big list of new rumours with tons of stuff. What I expect to happen is that most stuff will stay the same, we'll get some re-coloured old artwork, then some big robot/action figure unit and a few units which are dual kits. Probably some unit which will seem completely silly...


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 17:59:59


Post by: Erasoketa


If BT are finally a separate supplement for C:SM I will be mad for two reasons:

- Having to buy 2 books.

- The supplements are only available in English.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 18:12:33


Post by: Dysartes


sockwithaticket wrote:
How much salt do we need, and for which set of rumours?


Quite a bit, and for both sets


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 18:14:38


Post by: Malisteen


Pone's record is spotless, so this seems pretty solid. If true, I have to say my bitterness and jealousy as Chaos player would know no bounds. New plastic marine infantry - both troops and elites - replacing ancient plastics and finecrap? Plastic HQs? Multiple AA options? Legion rules in the book? Neat new weapon options? It's like everything CSM players wanted or needed and had to settle for some dinozords instead of.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 18:15:39


Post by: dienekes96


No, you also got the Dark Apostle.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 18:17:31


Post by: timetowaste85


If they made a 5-man sternguard box in plastic, added 5 of each combi-weapon type, a couple CC options for the sergeant, they could charge $50 for it and it would sell in droves. It's not the bodies, it's the weapons. I see a few possible people complaining, but most would accept that price, based on what it costs to buy individually now.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 18:19:06


Post by: FarseerAndyMan


I hope we get a Knight Titan...My Astral Claws would be SUPER STOMPY then...


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 18:21:30


Post by: Dysartes


 dienekes96 wrote:
No, you also got the Dark Apostle.


And the War(p)smith...


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 18:22:56


Post by: Zothos


Best pone, to my knowledge, has not been wrong yet.

I will take his word over most others.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 18:25:12


Post by: Malisteen


re: apostles & smiths; Thank you for re-iterating my point.

In defense of the CSM release, the raptor dual kit is very nice, though sadly rather pointless on the table.

Otherwise, the CSM army is positively desperate for new marine infantry models. The current CSMs have not aged even close to as well as their loyalist counterparts, all four of the cult kits are positively awful, and chosen are available exclusively from the starter box, in non-poseable models that lack the vast majority of that unit's options (and are in fact armed quite poorly), and Havocs are still a hybrid box.

I can't recommend CSMs to any new players right now, and not due to codex complaints but rather because Essential elements of the faction's model line just aren't there, and yet GW wastes time adding two new AV12 walkers to a faction that already has 2 AV12 walkers they mostly don't use anyway? I know they don't release rules without models these days, but I'd have rather gone without new units altogether if it meant I could get some up to date infantry models, and I sure as heck would have bought a lot more of those then I have of the new daemon engines. It's very frustrating.


But off topic, I suppose. Anyway, again, I don't mean to knock this release. It sounds freaking amazing.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 18:31:26


Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis


I'm thinking there were be only 1 veterans kit, 5 models, which you can make either sternguard or vanguard with. Just hope they remember to give you jump packs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Malika2 wrote:
I'm not buying it. We always get this big list of new rumours with tons of stuff. What I expect to happen is that most stuff will stay the same, we'll get some re-coloured old artwork, then some big robot/action figure unit and a few units which are dual kits. Probably some unit which will seem completely silly...


True, but remember these are Spess Mehreens, GWs main army, and far as I can remember they always go all out with them when a new codex arrives.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 18:37:20


Post by: unmercifulconker


I sure am gonna hold off the codex until a definate understanding of whats happening to the eternal crusaders.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 18:39:56


Post by: BryllCream


To be fair space marines sell better than all the other armies...why shouldn't they get some love?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 18:42:31


Post by: FarseerAndyMan


 BryllCream wrote:
To be fair space marines sell better than all the other armies...why shouldn't they get some love?


Holy Crap Bryllcream---

One of your responses that I can totally agree with!!



Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 18:43:12


Post by: TyCorny


Pretty Sad about BT rolling in actually. If that happens I may just have to pick a new army


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 18:48:14


Post by: timetowaste85


 FarseerAndyMan wrote:
 BryllCream wrote:
To be fair space marines sell better than all the other armies...why shouldn't they get some love?


Holy Crap Bryllcream---

One of your responses that I can totally agree with!!



Yeah...it's uncanny, right? Finally a post that makes sense!


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 18:58:39


Post by: ArbitorIan


 FarseerAndyMan wrote:
I hope we get a Knight Titan...My Astral Claws would be SUPER STOMPY then...


You mean a Knight? Or a Titan? Cos they're two different things....


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 19:01:44


Post by: FarseerAndyMan


Hey Ian--

I have some of the old epic plastic figs, werent they called Knight Titans?
It was so long ago when I played with them, im not sure what exactly they were called TBH...


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 19:03:53


Post by: Alpharius


Paging Platuan4th... Paging Platuan4th... STAT!!!


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 19:05:23


Post by: Eldarain


TyCorny wrote:
Pretty Sad about BT rolling in actually. If that happens I may just have to pick a new army

Why is even just the concept of being included in the Core Marine codex so offensive to BT players? If nothing else it would ensure more regular updates.

Is it inconceivable that a functional well received list could result?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 19:11:35


Post by: sparkywtf


 Eldarain wrote:
TyCorny wrote:
Pretty Sad about BT rolling in actually. If that happens I may just have to pick a new army

Why is even just the concept of being included in the Core Marine codex so offensive to BT players? If nothing else it would ensure more regular updates.

Is it inconceivable that a functional well received list could result?


Because every other army follows the codex (to an extent) while BT doesn't. It would make more sense to roll in BA than BT in. BT being rolled in just doesn't make sense, unless you change everything they stand for in every previous codex.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 19:14:55


Post by: The Shadow


Sounds kinda cool I guess. I'm hoping these new Grav shenanigans and the new armour is way to OP. Knowing GW and their love of SMs, it could well be true. And there are innumerable SM players in our store...


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 19:15:58


Post by: Kanluwen


 Theophony wrote:
power armor on top of power armor and weapon load outs to be like a tau battle suit.

Why is this facepalm worthy?

Seriously, there are a ton of ways this could be done to make it interesting or at least visually distinctive. And why is different weapon loadouts a bad thing?

Anyways the way it is described meshes more and more with the "Manned Contemptor Armour" tidbit that one of the FW sculptors talked about last year.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 19:16:15


Post by: TyCorny


For me it was about originality. It was the only self codex left that wasnt taken in my group minus sisters.

If it became a supplement it'd be just a little better as it'd still have its own book (at the cost of... well extra cost) but being rolled into a single book they'll only get likely just a few pages of originality instead of an entire book.

and lastly (and least applicable) jealousy. why do BA, SW, and mostly so far DA deserve an entire codex and not BT? or any other chapter for that matter? If the change in cover art also includes extra pages of info on those chapters maybe, but somehow I doubt that'll be the case


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 19:18:22


Post by: timetowaste85


If they put a second FOC into the book that was for black Templars only, it would be fine that they got rolled into one. Or if there was a multi page subsection that described how a SM list would be forced to change to be a proper BT list, that would be fine. Otherwise, no, it won't be appropriate to those of us who prefer BT who really are different from other chapters. We can't just skip librarians, we need a bonus defense against psykers. We can't add scouts into our tactical squads. We can't have basic marines exchange bolters for CCW/BP. We can't have an emperors champion. We can't charge the enemy that shoots us, we have to fall back. These are all issues that we NEED to do, but can't by playing in the lines of the SM rules, without a unique FOC or a few pages of special rules and alterations to the list. Either option works in a SM codex, just saying they're differently painted does not.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 19:23:11


Post by: AHReese


September!?! Woah - Less than a month for GW's biggest product line release!

Ha and GW know their customers too well. The LE Codexes will sell ridiculously fast. Nice to see founding chapters getting some love although I hope other chapters get some too!

As always, it's nice to see new plastic kits. Although I hope the tanks aren't purely AA. It also blows my mind that it has taken them this long to produce a plastic librarian and chaplain! Now how about plastic LoTD? I wish.

The current marine line is already pretty well done so I wonder if the new tac marines are getting different poses or if there is just a new weapon sprue in it...

The new armor just sounds like techmarine armor/servo harness for regular marines. Should be a nice basis for conversions as this makes it appear there isn't a new plastic techmarine/thunderfire kit.




Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 19:34:25


Post by: dienekes96


I hope the Librarian is half as awesome as the one in DV.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 19:35:39


Post by: Kanluwen


I kind of hope they make the Librarian look like the art of a Dark Angels Librarian in their book.

Y'know the one, striding forward with flames surrounding his hands and a look that makes you think "Oh crap".


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 19:37:50


Post by: dienekes96


I hope they make the Chaplain look like the one in that book as well. That mask/helmet is awesome.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 19:39:06


Post by: Kanluwen


You heard it here first Internet:

Plastic Dark Angels Chaplain and Librarians coming with Codex: Space Marines!



Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 19:40:45


Post by: Panic


yeah,
The idea of chapter tactics sounds like trouble...
I have a feeling this will be ultramarines have combat tactics, while whaitscar have bikes as troops!, imperial fists are stubborn.
I fear for next 5 years we will be seeing blue white scar's, and imperial fists armies in black armour.

I imagine that the Plastic Sternguard/Vanguard Vets will be a dual kit? with loads of bling.

Mega Terminators... I dont see how this just apears in the fluff.
A new kind of armour invented after the hersey?
Isn't this stomping on tau toes! twice!
1. Big Piloted Suits.
2. New Tech! In the stagnent Imperium of man!

The new tank will be yet another rhino varient I imagine. Whirlwinds already look like an anti air defence unit.
Plus space marines already have good anti air! They have the stormTalon and stormRaven.

AHReese wrote:
! Now how about plastic LoTD? I wish.
If ever there was a unit to remove from the codex and give it's own supplement Its the LoTD.

Panic...


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 19:43:39


Post by: Kanluwen


 Panic wrote:

Mega Terminators... I dont see how this just apears in the fluff.
A new kind of armour invented after the hersey?
Isn't this stomping on tau toes! twice!
1. Big Piloted Suits.
2. New Tech! In the stagnent Imperium of man!

I mentioned this a few times but the "Contemptor Dreadnought" is actually supposed to have a manned version.

Think less of "Battlesuits" and more "Exoskeletons".


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 19:50:21


Post by: Slaanesh-Devotee


Things I like about this rumour:
New model kits is kinda nice.
Return of graviton weapons.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 19:54:15


Post by: evildrcheese


 dienekes96 wrote:
I hope the Librarian is half as awesome as the one in DV.


Only half? I hope it's more awesome!

D


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 19:55:48


Post by: Grimtuff


 Kanluwen wrote:
 Panic wrote:

Mega Terminators... I dont see how this just apears in the fluff.
A new kind of armour invented after the hersey?
Isn't this stomping on tau toes! twice!
1. Big Piloted Suits.
2. New Tech! In the stagnent Imperium of man!

I mentioned this a few times but the "Contemptor Dreadnought" is actually supposed to have a manned version.

Think less of "Battlesuits" and more "Exoskeletons".


Source?

I'm not doubting you, genuinely curious.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 19:56:54


Post by: Kanluwen


 Grimtuff wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Panic wrote:

Mega Terminators... I dont see how this just apears in the fluff.
A new kind of armour invented after the hersey?
Isn't this stomping on tau toes! twice!
1. Big Piloted Suits.
2. New Tech! In the stagnent Imperium of man!

I mentioned this a few times but the "Contemptor Dreadnought" is actually supposed to have a manned version.

Think less of "Battlesuits" and more "Exoskeletons".


Source?

I'm not doubting you, genuinely curious.

One of the FW sculptors in the time leading up to IA12.

That was like two or so years ago from what I remember; so the name is kinda blanking on me.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 20:00:27


Post by: Zognob Gorgoff


I think the power armour on top of power armour will be more like a servo harness for the body allowing multiple weapon systems to be fired at once, one at full BS and the others at reduced BS. It may also increase general strength and tougness but reduce inititive.

Also heres hopeing the grav rifle isnt mega huge and is a cool sniper rifle style gun.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 20:03:42


Post by: Malika2


 Kanluwen wrote:
 Panic wrote:

Mega Terminators... I dont see how this just apears in the fluff.
A new kind of armour invented after the hersey?
Isn't this stomping on tau toes! twice!
1. Big Piloted Suits.
2. New Tech! In the stagnent Imperium of man!

I mentioned this a few times but the "Contemptor Dreadnought" is actually supposed to have a manned version.

Think less of "Battlesuits" and more "Exoskeletons".


Aren't you mixing up the Contemptor for those Rogue Trader Dreadnoughts?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 20:05:36


Post by: AHReese


 Panic wrote:


AHReese wrote:
! Now how about plastic LoTD? I wish.
If ever there was a unit to remove from the codex and give it's own supplement Its the LoTD.

Panic...




Oh and while off topic, thanks for the great Realm of Battle Board writeup about painting/flocking - got that on bookmark!

I know that product causes some major arguments, but with the additional tiles that have come out since, I'm leaning towards it.

Has yours held up well?



Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 20:13:10


Post by: Kanluwen


 Malika2 wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Panic wrote:

Mega Terminators... I dont see how this just apears in the fluff.
A new kind of armour invented after the hersey?
Isn't this stomping on tau toes! twice!
1. Big Piloted Suits.
2. New Tech! In the stagnent Imperium of man!

I mentioned this a few times but the "Contemptor Dreadnought" is actually supposed to have a manned version.

Think less of "Battlesuits" and more "Exoskeletons".


Aren't you mixing up the Contemptor for those Rogue Trader Dreadnoughts?

Maybe. I just know that I remember the Contemptor being mentioned as having a manned version.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 20:14:08


Post by: Purple Saturday


I'm still expecting banners to be hugely important to running a 6th edition space marine army, like the Bretonnians of WHFB a few editions back. The DA codex already upped the banner game and we all know how GW loves to +1 the DA codex with the Space Marine codex.

Oh, and lots of MC hunting options and gear.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 20:15:21


Post by: unmercifulconker


My guess which im sticking to is BT will be a supplement and they are releasing a BT cover sm codex so it make you feel like a `true' BT player.

Would prefer proper codex but as long as BT stay BT, its all good playa.



Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 20:34:09


Post by: Sidstyler


 BryllCream wrote:
To be fair space marines sell better than all the other armies...why shouldn't they get some love?


Well, one could argue that if they're such good sellers as-is then that's a good enough argument for them not needing any more attention. The line already sells (and these are mostly old molds that have long been paid off at that), so just let the cash keep flowing and spend the time/money refreshing other product lines in the interest of having more than just the one successful product line. Why fix what isn't broken, right?

Before anyone starts getting huffy I'll freely admit I'm just being argumentative right now, but it makes sense to me.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 20:48:23


Post by: Byte


All sounds great!


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 20:55:53


Post by: insaniak


 Tannhauser42 wrote:
And an all new gun? If they're going to give us something new like that, why not give us the Volkite weaponry from the HH book, rather than something mostly unheard of?

The Graviton Gun isn't something new. It's just another 2nd ed throwback, dusted off and returned to the game. As opposed to Volkite weapons, which are something that Forgeworld came up with for the Horus Heresy range...


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 21:05:50


Post by: Compel


The thing I find weird is a new Tactical Squad box AND a new Sternguard box.

I would have thought they wouldn't have bothered with a new Tactical squad at all. Seems a bit redundant.

The Blood Angels 'Death Company' kit for example, works great when mixed in with Tacticals to make more unique units. Surely an equivalent Sternguard box would have pulled off the same for codex marines?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 21:15:00


Post by: insaniak


It's particularly odd for them to be adding new kits instead of rolling them in as options for existing kits when they already lack the space to keep the whole range on the shelf...

I forsee the new tanks and veterans being a splash release and then Direct-only...


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 21:15:59


Post by: Redemption


 insaniak wrote:
The Graviton Gun isn't something new. It's just another 2nd ed throwback, dusted off and returned to the game.

The Hunter seems to be another throwback, but from Epic:



http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hunter
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat490039a&prodId=prod1110025


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 21:18:41


Post by: RiTides


 BryllCream wrote:
There is nothing in that post that I do not like.

Agreed... heck, I'm even a sucker enough that I might want a limited cover version just so it doesn't have ultramarines on it!


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 21:36:55


Post by: spaceelf


 Sidstyler wrote:
 BryllCream wrote:
To be fair space marines sell better than all the other armies...why shouldn't they get some love?


Well, one could argue that if they're such good sellers as-is then that's a good enough argument for them not needing any more attention. The line already sells (and these are mostly old molds that have long been paid off at that), so just let the cash keep flowing and spend the time/money refreshing other product lines in the interest of having more than just the one successful product line. Why fix what isn't broken, right?

Before anyone starts getting huffy I'll freely admit I'm just being argumentative right now, but it makes sense to me.


Codex updates frequently nerf good stuff, and make bad stuff better. They also release new units. Players are left with the decision to stick with what they have and get beaten, or buy more stuff. Most choose the latter. Thus codex updates generate sales. Given that there are tons of marine players, the new dex should be a big winner for GW. (Also, there is no sign that GW is abandoning the old plastic molds. The stuff that is being replaced is finecast.)

I wish all of this were not true, as the last thing we need is more SM, but sadly I think it is. Lets all look forward to more Marine vs Marine action.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 21:37:51


Post by: Platuan4th


 FarseerAndyMan wrote:
Hey Ian--

I have some of the old epic plastic figs, werent they called Knight Titans?
It was so long ago when I played with them, im not sure what exactly they were called TBH...


They were not EVER called Knight Titans. They were named Knight X, with x being the style of the Knight class warmachine, such as the Knight Paladin(chain sword, battle cannon, twin heavy bolters), which is the variety everyone is thinking when they say Knights.

In fact, the original entry for Knights is pretty explicit about NOT being Titans. They are an independent military force tied to specific worlds allied to the Adeptus Mechanicus and Titanicus, but they're a military order of knights(the Knights literally being their steeds) that organize to defend their planet from entire armies alone and occasionally join Titanicus forces to fulfil their oath to the Mechanicus.

The order of warmachines: Robots - Knights - Titans. Each is then divided into different classes(type of armament and style for robots and Knights, different sizes for Titans).


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 21:52:00


Post by: Azreal13


Hmmm, I want to believe, I am inclined to believe given the source's apparent track record, but...

This fits with a lot of the early rumours we got for Eldar (loads of plastic kits) which, when those settled out were nowhere near as numerous. I can buy the exo armour, and the new (I assume) Rhino variants. But since 6th dropped there have been several kits that probably needed updating way more than the Tac Squad that have been passed over, and I think I'm right in saying that no existing boxed set has been updated and only new kits have launched?

That said, an LE Raven Guard book could concievably have me reaching for my wallet and Spesh Mahrines are the golden boys, so why wouldn't they be special?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 21:56:41


Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis


 Compel wrote:
The thing I find weird is a new Tactical Squad box AND a new Sternguard box.

I would have thought they wouldn't have bothered with a new Tactical squad at all. Seems a bit redundant.

The Blood Angels 'Death Company' kit for example, works great when mixed in with Tacticals to make more unique units. Surely an equivalent Sternguard box would have pulled off the same for codex marines?


They really need to just rename that kit "Blood Angels" since even the codex shows pics of the models being used as everything from DC, tacticals, Assault squads, veterans, even devastators.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 21:58:14


Post by: Feldmarshal Goehring


 RiTides wrote:
Agreed... heck, I'm even a sucker enough that I might want a limited cover version just so it doesn't have ultramarines on it!


I love this idea! I am looking forward with great curiosity to see what actually turns out with this codex (anticipating a Blood Angels codex in the future).


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 22:18:16


Post by: BryllCream


I normally consider myself to be a sane, rational man. But there is no upper limit on the price I would pay for a limited edition imperial fists-fronted codex.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 22:21:50


Post by: Azreal13


 BryllCream wrote:
I normally consider myself to be a sane, rational man. But there is no upper limit on the price I would pay for a limited edition imperial fists-fronted codex.


I just want to take a moment, as others have already, to point out that despite my criticism, if this is even close to being reality, I will be in total agreement with you, and will be like this for the whole period leading up to the release...




Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 22:48:05


Post by: DaemonForge


I truly hope the new armor-on-armor looks as cool as I hope it will. Rules are one thing, and I have played pieces that are competitive that I personally dislike the look of, but ultimately I enjoy a good-looking force.

I have a bit of trepidation about this, although I will be very happy to NOT have the Dreadknight V2.0...


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 22:54:20


Post by: MajorStoffer


Meh, my enthusiasim is quite muted. Honestly, what I want most are plastic sternguard and updated tacticals (honestly, the first-gen plastic kits ought to be re-done, none of them have aged particularly well; Chaos marines, tacticals, cadians, catachans, eldar jetbikes, etc), but I don't think I could bring myself to paint more marines.

Honestly, they bore me to paint, and I don't enjoy fielding the army very much either. especially given GW's further direction in bling and action figures. We'll see what the release has in store, but I doubt it'll get much attention from me, likely nothing beyond the codex.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 22:56:37


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


I wonder how the grav weapons will work against Sv - opponents? If they auto wound my daemon MCs are going to be sad...


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 22:58:22


Post by: Ascalam


My orks would find Grav-spam freaking hilarious though


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 22:59:26


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


You know... If the SM players around here do go all grav-spamming, then I may get an excuse to use my orks again


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 23:01:55


Post by: Davylove21


Saving for this from now, just in case it's true!


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 23:07:16


Post by: prowla


DaemonForge wrote:
I truly hope the new armor-on-armor looks as cool as I hope it will. Rules are one thing, and I have played pieces that are competitive that I personally dislike the look of, but ultimately I enjoy a good-looking force.

I have a bit of trepidation about this, although I will be very happy to NOT have the Dreadknight V2.0...


Sorry buddy, DreadKnight v2 is what is to be expected. A general issue DK, one that's not fitted to battle daemons: it fits the exo-suit description, and the rest of the stuff like having bolters/frag launchers on chest would suggest it's pretty big.. As someone noted, "GK was the first 6th ed. release" - big gribblie kits and flyers for everyone.. and why would they leave the most popular army without one?

Rest of the release sounds plausible.. Death Company -style Vets box, dual option AA tank, new Tacs box. That's four plastic boxes, sounds about right as there's already a flyer.




Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 23:24:31


Post by: gorgon


The BT mention sure is a curveball. Then again, Hastings never had BTs on his list of codicies to come in the near future. So it might indeed be supplement city for them. Which might actually still capture them pretty well in fluff and rules while allowing them more toys from the basic SM codex.

I don't play SMs anymore, but I certainly welcome some new AA options into the metagame.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 23:49:02


Post by: Tyr Grimtooth


I just don't get the drama over the Black Templars.

You are a successor that never should have gotten a supplement in the first place and always should have just been a few pages in the SM codex. Flesh Tearers don't have a standalone codex and aren't crying for one. Neither are DA and their vast number of unforgiven successors. Hell, if the Wolf Brothers had not been disbanded, they wouldn't rate a standalone or supplement either. Hopefully BT get rolled rightly into the SM codex and balance is restored.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 23:55:26


Post by: pizzaguardian


 Tyr Grimtooth wrote:
I just don't get the drama over the Black Templars.

You are a successor that never should have gotten a supplement in the first place and always should have just been a few pages in the SM codex. Flesh Tearers don't have a standalone codex and aren't crying for one. Neither are DA and their vast number of unforgiven successors. Hell, if the Wolf Brothers had not been disbanded, they wouldn't rate a standalone or supplement either. Hopefully BT get rolled rightly into the SM codex and balance is restored.


Wait, what?

Sir do you have any real knowledge or BT 's or know about the DA codex?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/03 23:59:22


Post by: Ironwill13791


If the AA tanks, grav weapons, and variant rhino rumours are all correct then I am pre-saying that DA got screwed again.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 00:01:36


Post by: Kanluwen


 Ironwill13791 wrote:
If the AA tanks, grav weapons, and variant rhino rumours are all correct then I am pre-saying that DA got screwed again.

At this point it is a given that the Dark Angels get screwed when a new Space Marine codex follows them.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 00:10:17


Post by: spacewolf407


So no new SW material on the upcoming SM codex? Well thats a bummer.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 00:19:01


Post by: Liquid Squid


Baby Dreadknight squads sounds very appealing to me. I also would have never thought I'd be suckered into buying a limited edition codex, but an Iron Hands one sounds very nice indeed.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 00:32:40


Post by: Malisteen


The black templars are, or were, on a permanent crusade deployment, with radical divergence from codex organization. I would be rather disappointed if they were rolled into the regular Space Marine codex - both the Blood Angels and the Dark Angels were better represented by the basic SM codex than Templars. Honestly, even after their new book that's still the case for Dark Angels.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 00:37:40


Post by: insaniak


 Tyr Grimtooth wrote:
You are a successor that never should have gotten a supplement in the first place and always should have just been a few pages in the SM codex. Flesh Tearers don't have a standalone codex and aren't crying for one. Neither are DA and their vast number of unforgiven successors. Hell, if the Wolf Brothers had not been disbanded, they wouldn't rate a standalone or supplement either. Hopefully BT get rolled rightly into the SM codex and balance is restored.

The Flesh Tearers and the Dark Angels' 'vast' numbers of successors (all 6 of them) don't have their own codex because they follow largely the same organisational structure and combat doctrines as their progenitors.

BT had their own codex because they follow a completely different organisational structure and have a completely different combat doctrine to other major Chapters. Being a successor Chapter had nothing to do with it... it's all down to how different they are from other existing Chapters. Imperial Fists don't warrant their own book, because they are a strict Codex Astartes Chapter, and so are represented adequately by Codex: Space Marines. Black Templars are not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 spacewolf407 wrote:
So no new SW material on the upcoming SM codex? Well thats a bummer.

Why would there be...?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 01:04:51


Post by: StormKing


I hope they make the marines cost waaaaaay less point wise.

Also I wonder how the prices are going to be for the regular unit because maybe I should stock up now haha

Can't wait to see some pictures of the new models hopefully something leaks soon


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 01:12:51


Post by: MikeFox


Marines dont need a point drop. You get 3 different weapon on a single model with 3+ armor and grenades with free specialist weapons. What more do you want?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 01:21:17


Post by: shabbadoo


My good man, you have obviously never has fudge covered cheese cake.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 01:21:49


Post by: ironicsilence


i hope there is a mega dread piloting by a regular size dread, piloted by a terminator


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 01:23:07


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Plastic Captain, Chaplain, Libby, Sternguard and Vanguard?

All aboard the Wishlist Express...


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 01:27:49


Post by: SickSix


PRAISE BE TO THE EMPEOR!!!!

These rumors are GLORIOUS!

Except for the baby dreadknights.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 02:19:44


Post by: Relapse


 Ascalam wrote:
Or going back to older 40k gear.

Graviton guns guns are back.... next up will be the fething Virus Outbreak card rising from the grave to molest my poor Orks again


Oh, come now. I have an old White Dwarf which had a battle report between Orks Jervis J) and Space Wolves Andy C) in which a virus grenade only killed 6 Orks. I have it on reliable authority that they only had to reroll the dice 6,000 times to get that result.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do like the Space Wolf 13th Company from the Eye of Terror codex and built my Space Wolves around that theme. As a matter of fact, that whole codex was fairly decent for Chaos cultist armies as well as Imperium. The Eldar part of it I wasn't too wild about, though.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 02:57:31


Post by: The nameless


If they're redoing the tactical marine w/ the shiny new box does that mean they're gonna cut it down to a 5 pack now?

The plastic h.q. kit is pretty sweet though, assuming said rumors are true....

The power armour for the power armour does seem kinda pants-on-head though... just doesn't seem marine-ish.

The new tanks seem more "money grab" than usual. The TFC couldn't have a flakk option or the razor back couldn't get a sky fire option to handle the A.A. needs?

Now I'm really curious as to what "new/shiny" Space Wolves and Blood Angels will get?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 03:12:55


Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis


The nameless wrote:
If they're redoing the tactical marine w/ the shiny new box does that mean they're gonna cut it down to a 5 pack now?

The plastic h.q. kit is pretty sweet though, assuming said rumors are true....

The power armour for the power armour does seem kinda pants-on-head though... just doesn't seem marine-ish.

The new tanks seem more "money grab" than usual. The TFC couldn't have a flakk option or the razor back couldn't get a sky fire option to handle the A.A. needs?

Now I'm really curious as to what "new/shiny" Space Wolves and Blood Angels will get?


I just hope they remember NOT to give SW any flyers since their disdain of flying and jump packs is such a hilarious part of their fluff.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 03:20:45


Post by: insaniak


Space wolves use flyers... Our at least, they use thunder hawks, which up until recently would have been the only option for them anyway. It's just jump packs they refuse to use.


So giving them access to something storm raven-esque wouldn't break the fluff any more than it did for everyone else who suddenly gained hitherto unheard of flying machines.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 03:20:52


Post by: Crazyterran


 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
The nameless wrote:
If they're redoing the tactical marine w/ the shiny new box does that mean they're gonna cut it down to a 5 pack now?

The plastic h.q. kit is pretty sweet though, assuming said rumors are true....

The power armour for the power armour does seem kinda pants-on-head though... just doesn't seem marine-ish.

The new tanks seem more "money grab" than usual. The TFC couldn't have a flakk option or the razor back couldn't get a sky fire option to handle the A.A. needs?

Now I'm really curious as to what "new/shiny" Space Wolves and Blood Angels will get?


I just hope they remember NOT to give SW any flyers since their disdain of flying and jump packs is such a hilarious part of their fluff.


It's going to be a flying wolf monstrous creature.

Airwolf Cavalry.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 03:34:36


Post by: ShatteredBlade


If they do make it five to a box you might as well just buy forge world.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 03:43:15


Post by: ClockworkZion


 ShatteredBlade wrote:
If they do make it five to a box you might as well just buy forge world.


Already my plan. I want to do an Exorcists army in MkIV Power Armor, I'm just waiting to see what the codex brings so I can plan my army better.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 03:43:25


Post by: Trevak Dal


 insaniak wrote:

The Flesh Tearers and the Dark Angels' 'vast' numbers of successors (all 6 of them) don't have their own codex because they follow largely the same organisational structure and combat doctrines as their progenitors.


Hmm, Codex Chaos Space Marines seems to best represent Black Templars now. Terminators with Rage and Furious Charge, hordes of Power Armor-Accepting any challenge, no matter the odds...


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 03:53:19


Post by: The nameless


 Trevak Dal wrote:
 insaniak wrote:

The Flesh Tearers and the Dark Angels' 'vast' numbers of successors (all 6 of them) don't have their own codex because they follow largely the same organisational structure and combat doctrines as their progenitors.


Hmm, Codex Chaos Space Marines seems to best represent Black Templars now. Terminators with Rage and Furious Charge, hordes of Power Armor-Accepting any challenge, no matter the odds...


You might be on to something with that, just dont roll for a spawn/d.prince and it's pretty good.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 04:01:35


Post by: Griever


Holy gak, that's a beautiful set of rumors. I would definitely get it on some SM action if we get new normal sized tanks and plastic infantry kits.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 04:21:49


Post by: rybackstun


As someone who has played Black Templars since the Armageddon Codex, I'm saddened to see BT get rolled into the SM Codex. I was talking to my dad about this, but it would go a long way for BT fans to get their own supplement like the Farsight Enclave and Craftworld Iyanden did. It wouldn't be the same as a stand alone, but at least we'd get some upgrades to bring us back into the light.

Honestly if BT gets normalized and reduced to just another SM Successor chapter after years of being their own thing, then I'm pretty much done with the game, which makes me sad :(


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 04:52:20


Post by: TiamatRoar


It's a bit strange for them to become merged with regular space marines when they have their own allies set, though...


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 05:02:18


Post by: jah-joshua


 insaniak wrote:
Space wolves use flyers... Our at least, they use thunder hawks, which up until recently would have been the only option for them anyway. It's just jump packs they refuse to use.


So giving them access to something storm raven-esque wouldn't break the fluff any more than it did for everyone else who suddenly gained hitherto unheard of flying machines.


Space Wolves do jump packs, bro...
that's what Sky Claws are for...
it's the non-teleporting Termies that are different...

Blood of Asaheim had a Grey Hunter who was the Thunderhawk pilot, and loved it...
they really should have access to the Storm Raven and Chibi Hawk...
either way, now people can just ally in the regular Marine gear anyway...

looking forward to leaked pics in a few weeks...

cheers
jah




Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 05:09:25


Post by: insaniak


 jah-joshua wrote:

Space Wolves do jump packs, bro...
that's what Sky Claws are for...

Only while they are young and foolish. Note that there is no option for jump packing Grey Hunters...


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 06:09:54


Post by: A Musketeer


SW not flying is rubbish. They have to. Hell, drop pods are crazier than a stormnoun. I mean, hey I get it if the GH wont fly, but that's what serfs are for.

In the Codex, Logan rescues that named wolf guard (can't for the life of me remember his name) from a flyer.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 06:31:53


Post by: Redemption


 azreal13 wrote:
Hmmm, I want to believe, I am inclined to believe given the source's apparent track record, but...

This fits with a lot of the early rumours we got for Eldar (loads of plastic kits) which, when those settled out were nowhere near as numerous. I can buy the exo armour, and the new (I assume) Rhino variants. But since 6th dropped there have been several kits that probably needed updating way more than the Tac Squad that have been passed over, and I think I'm right in saying that no existing boxed set has been updated and only new kits have launched?

The new Rhino variants and the exo-suits have been mentioned by Hastings as well, which only further adds to the rumour's credibility. And the number of plastic kits isn't that out there. Rhino variant dual kit, Sterngaurd/Vanguard Veteran dual kit, Exo-Suits and new Tac Squad would make 4 boxes, which is on par with the number of plastic kits Tau and Dark Angels got. And possibly, because none of them are a big kits and SM are a big seller, they added a few more plastic characters.

 prowla wrote:
Sorry buddy, DreadKnight v2 is what is to be expected. A general issue DK, one that's not fitted to battle daemons: it fits the exo-suit description, and the rest of the stuff like having bolters/frag launchers on chest would suggest it's pretty big.. As someone noted, "GK was the first 6th ed. release" - big gribblie kits and flyers for everyone.. and why would they leave the most popular army without one?

Because every credible rumour so far has said they're even smaller than Dreadnoughts. The rumours about some mega-dreadnought are just rampant speculation by the same people that claim that every 6th edition codex gets a new big MC or walker, ignoring the fact that the DA and Daemons didn't get one.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 06:44:21


Post by: smurfORnot


 MikeFox wrote:
Marines dont need a point drop. You get 3 different weapon on a single model with 3+ armor and grenades with free specialist weapons. What more do you want?


except with all those AP3/2 ignore cover large blast weapons around, your 3+ save means jack gak...

ClockworkZion wrote:
 ShatteredBlade wrote:
If they do make it five to a box you might as well just buy forge world.


Already my plan. I want to do an Exorcists army in MkIV Power Armor, I'm just waiting to see what the codex brings so I can plan my army better.


Same with me, waiting to see how codex will look. If it sucks for some reason,Tau it is. If it's good, then I'm doing pre heresy legion. This way I can play it as SM or Chaos if I want ,2in1 deal!


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 07:12:06


Post by: Ascalam


Which Ignore Cover AP 2/3 Large blast weapons?

Just curious, as i've yet to run into any outside of Apoc.

Then again, i'm used to my armour meaning jack gak, regardless of how much my guys cost, as i play DE and Orks



Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 07:13:13


Post by: HisDivineShadow


 smurfORnot wrote:


except with all those AP3/2 ignore cover large blast weapons around, your 3+ save means jack gak...


You mean you occasionally dont get your fancy 3+? Boohoo. Those of us playing non Meq hardly ever get saves. Man up.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 07:31:51


Post by: Just Dave


Personally, as he doesn't specify them as plastic - unlike the other boxes - I dont know whether to interpret the tactical squad as getting reboxed, or simply getting new options in the Codex...


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 08:33:05


Post by: Agamemnon2


 smurfORnot wrote:
 MikeFox wrote:
Marines dont need a point drop. You get 3 different weapon on a single model with 3+ armor and grenades with free specialist weapons. What more do you want?


except with all those AP3/2 ignore cover large blast weapons around, your 3+ save means jack gak...


omg, GW rules designers unable to control codex creep? Say it isn't so.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 09:46:08


Post by: Kroothawk


There is a reason why the Space Wolf Codex is the only one since 2010 without a flyer.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 09:47:04


Post by: Fayric


So, if the first founding (ish) chapters get represented in the main Codex,
GW pretty much close the door on SM supplements. Of course there is Crimson fist,
and perhaps Bloodravens, but it seems od that they would get their own books and
charismatic chapters like Imperial Fist, Salamanders and Ultras just get a few pages of the main dex.

Somethings of with this.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 09:51:29


Post by: RandyMcStab


Ultras we're rumoured to get a supplement at one point and Iyanden we're still in the Eldar book proper..


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 10:05:16


Post by: Fayric


 RandyMcStab wrote:
Ultras we're rumoured to get a supplement at one point and Iyanden we're still in the Eldar book proper..


The rumor say you get tactical traits depending on what chapter you run, and that, besides fluf, is basicly what a supplement offer.
Iyanden was represented in the eldar codex by half a page worth of fluff, iirc (as all other main craftworlds.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 10:17:52


Post by: Fezman


Sounds fantastic. Now I just want to be able to stick the new armour type in a drop pod.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 10:23:16


Post by: SickSix


Well honestly, if successors get supplements that would be cool with me. Maybe Blood Ravens, probably CF, and I could always pray for my SilverSkulls LOL.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 10:55:35


Post by: Fayric


A bloodraven sup would be really great and probably expand on both the use and history of the noble spacemarines instead of returning to the old classic formula, so to speak.
From a sales perspective though, Crimson Fist would probably be a better choise for GW.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 11:01:42


Post by: dracpanzer


- There will be 7 Ltd Ed varients. 6 of these will be covers for First Founding chapters, whilst the 7th will have Black Templars on the cover.


Would be great if this means I can play my Raven Guard with their own rules, cool pic on the cover of them, without having to buy two codex's. Dunno if BT were just seen at the same time as the rest, the SM codex includes something along the lines of the BT rumors to be able to field them, or if they're getting rolled into the rest. There was a time when EVERY chapter could take an Emperor's Champion. I haven't fielded my RG Champion in a long, long, time. Bring it on. Would explain BT not being in the first few release schedules but having suddenly dropped in out of nowhere.

- New weapon family: Grav weapons. I believe these wound against the armour save (so terminators would be wounded as if they had a toughness of 2).


No word of the AP of these weapons, rate of fire, may be GAK awful depending on your Meta. Woohoo, the return of the Graviton guns....

- First Founding chapters will be getting a substantial section each to themselves, so hopefully this can be looked as as Codex: Space Marines instead of Codex: Ultramarines. This will also show in a rule called Chapter Tactics, for which the effects depend on the chapter being played.


Hopefully this is rules as well as fluff and characters. If BT are getting the 7th cover, does that mean all the rules that differentiate them from regular SM's are in their section?

- There is a new armour type that at first glance looks to be somewhere between a terminator and a dreadnought - looking more closely, it appears to go over the marine's power armour however.


Not sure what theses models will look like, if they're terrible. I might have just found a purpose for the five plastic IG sentinels I have collecting dust. Take the tech marine torso from the SM vehicle sprue and pop him inside, or maybe something a little Avatar walker like?

- This new armour can be armed in 2 ways, depending on the user. The devastator version has either a bolter array or missile launchers mounted on the chest armour, whilst the gauntlets can be armed with heavy bolters, lascannons or grav cannons. The assault version has a bolter array or frag launchers mounted on the chest armour, with assault drills mounted on the gauntlets.


IG sentinel, tech marine pilot, under slung "bolter array"? or missile launcher, with the gauntlet weapons mounted on side pods? Hoping the models are cool looking, but counts as might be just as good if not better, and cheaper....

- There are 2 new AA tanks. One tank veterans will already be familiar with as the Hunter, armed an AA missile launcher. The other tank mounts 2 tri-barreled turrets instead.


Perhaps rather than being brand new tank kits, they're just new bits thrown into the old kits? Whirlwind/Hunter kit, Land Raider/2 tri-barreled turrets kit? Look what they did to the Baneblade kit, not unreasonable.

- There is a new tactical squad. Lots of options as you'd expect, but of particular interest will probably be the grav pistol and grav rifle.


And here I am with a full battle company already....

- A new plastic Sternguard veteran squad.
- A new plastic Vanguard veteran squad.
- New plastic characters: a captain, a librarian and a chaplain.


The limited edition cover will be badass, no more whining about Codex Space Marines being the Ultramarine Codex if they're not on the cover. I'd be more than happy with an AA version of the whirlwind kit, though a proxy wouldn't be that hard to imagine with just a slight change to an existing whirlwind. Hopefully the BT cover/rumored codex FoC and rules are included in the codex rather than a roll in. Would be nice to field my Emperor's Champion again. Actually used to field a Black Templars force before their shoulder guards turned white.... I'd suspect the Vanguard/Sternguard are one kit like the BA box. New parts on the Tac squad sprue, Whirlwind sprue and maybe a Land Raider box that includes EVERY version in one box, maybe including a two tri-barreled kit like the new Baneblade would be great.

Not sure if we're looking at SM suits (would make sense being all buddy buddy with the Tau and all, I guess) or SM walkers that I can make conversions for. But a sturdy mobile heavy weapons platform might be cool. May not like the model, but I suspect I have some cheap conversions sitting unused in my bitz box on the shelf already.

All I really wanted was jump pack command squads, Raven Guard SR's without Shrike (hate him) and Vanguard Veterans who get jump packs for free. So things are looking up!


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 11:47:26


Post by: insaniak


 Kroothawk wrote:
There is a reason why the Space Wolf Codex is the only one since 2010 without a flyer.

It was the last one written before they started giving everyone flyers...?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 11:48:59


Post by: Fezman


Agreed with those who think the Vanguard/Sternguard sound like a dual kit. I imagine the new armour type as looking like Space Marines wearing big servo-harnesses.

The only thing I don't really buy is the plastic Captain. We already have the multi-part Commander kit.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 12:17:56


Post by: Redemption


 insaniak wrote:
 Kroothawk wrote:
There is a reason why the Space Wolf Codex is the only one since 2010 without a flyer.

It was the last one written before they started giving everyone flyers...?

Actually, the Valkyrie/Vendetta inclusion in the IG codex predates the SW codex, but yeah, it was released at the start when the codexes had flyers or flying monstrous creatures included (then still fast skimmers and jump monstrous creatures of course). I wouldn't be surprised if they included some form of flyer in their next iteration of their codex, but on the other hand, I could see them becoming the flyer-less codex (relying solely on the Thunderhawk and Drop Pod as means of transportation) like Tyranids are the vehicle-less codex as a way to differentiate the different Marine armies.

 Fezman wrote:
The only thing I don't really buy is the plastic Captain. We already have the multi-part Commander kit.

Plastic terminator captain perhaps? Although I guess that would have been mentioned.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 12:19:48


Post by: Redemption


mudhutman222 wrote:
Any leaked pics?

Pictures probably won't leak until the week before the new White Dwarf is released, so in about 3-4 weeks.

Edit: Natfka claims he has seen the new White Dwarf cover, and says they look similar to the concepts shown at Gamesday '04, but bulkier:
http://natfka.blogspot.nl/2013/08/september-white-dwarf-cover-and-old.html

Natfka wrote:I have now seen the White Dwarf cover for September (always alleged). It has 3 of the new 'Dreadmarine' models on it, and from the fuzzy looks of it, they are look rather nice. They are dressed in blue for those that care, with not rounded shoulder pads. It does not look like any heavy weapons mounted on them, but the shot is very fuzzy and hard to tell.

Also we have several old concept photos coming around that are very much similar to what I have seen on the cover. From what I have seen on the White Dwarf cover, the 'Dreadmarine" models are much bulkier than these concept sketches below, but the look is very similar.

These are the concept pics from 2004 Games Day.










Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 13:05:06


Post by: Fayric


 Redemption wrote:
 insaniak wrote:
 Kroothawk wrote:
There is a reason why the Space Wolf Codex is the only one since 2010 without a flyer.

It was the last one written before they started giving everyone flyers...?

Actually, the Valkyrie/Vendetta inclusion in the IG codex predates the SW codex, but yeah, it was released at the start when the codexes had flyers or flying monstrous creatures included (then still fast skimmers and jump monstrous creatures of course). I wouldn't be surprised if they included some form of flyer in their next iteration of their codex, but on the other hand, I could see them becoming the flyer-less codex (relying solely on the Thunderhawk and Drop Pod as means of transportation) like Tyranids are the vehicle-less codex as a way to differentiate the different Marine armies.



They could have given SW the option to get a flyer with the flyer compendium book and the FAQ entries that followed.
C:SM got the stormraven that way after all.
I would not mind SW not having a flyer of their own, but they ought to have some kind of AA apart from Quad guns.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 13:36:54


Post by: ph34r


I'm not sure about that last picture, but weren't most of those old devastator concept arts?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 13:37:31


Post by: andrewm9


 Fayric wrote:
 Redemption wrote:
 insaniak wrote:
 Kroothawk wrote:
There is a reason why the Space Wolf Codex is the only one since 2010 without a flyer.

It was the last one written before they started giving everyone flyers...?

Actually, the Valkyrie/Vendetta inclusion in the IG codex predates the SW codex, but yeah, it was released at the start when the codexes had flyers or flying monstrous creatures included (then still fast skimmers and jump monstrous creatures of course). I wouldn't be surprised if they included some form of flyer in their next iteration of their codex, but on the other hand, I could see them becoming the flyer-less codex (relying solely on the Thunderhawk and Drop Pod as means of transportation) like Tyranids are the vehicle-less codex as a way to differentiate the different Marine armies.



They could have given SW the option to get a flyer with the flyer compendium book and the FAQ entries that followed.
C:SM got the stormraven that way after all.

I would not mind SW not having a flyer of their own, but they ought to have some kind of AA apart from Quad guns.


Yet the Space Wolves have options for a flying ace in that same book. That tells me a flyer is planned/already done for them, but not released yet.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 13:44:34


Post by: Grimtuff


 ph34r wrote:
I'm not sure about that last picture, but weren't most of those old devastator concept arts?


They were. Deemed "too 'out there' even for 40k" by Jes and/or Juan Diaz. Oh how times change!


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 13:46:48


Post by: DiabolicAl


I remember those concepts. If that is what we are getting then i consider we got off lucky. At the time i thought they were plans towards a new type of armour for marines anyway.

Figured someone had been watching Iron Man recently.....


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 14:08:32


Post by: jah-joshua


 insaniak wrote:
 jah-joshua wrote:

Space Wolves do jump packs, bro...
that's what Sky Claws are for...

Only while they are young and foolish. Note that there is no option for jump packing Grey Hunters...


which is why i specified Sky Claws, Blood Claws with jump packs...
a young Space Wolves Marine is still a SW Marine, thus the Space Wolves do use jump packs...

i could see a Blood Claw piloting the Chibi Hawk...
a fast little flyer like that could be just as much fun to zip around in as a bike or jump pack...

anyway, i'm looking forward to seeing if the rumor of a new Tac. Squad, characters, and a dual Vet. kit, pan out...
i would snatch all of those up...

cheers
jah



Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 0041/10/05 20:14:33


Post by: ace101


 Fayric wrote:
 Redemption wrote:
 insaniak wrote:
 Kroothawk wrote:
There is a reason why the Space Wolf Codex is the only one since 2010 without a flyer.

It was the last one written before they started giving everyone flyers...?

Actually, the Valkyrie/Vendetta inclusion in the IG codex predates the SW codex, but yeah, it was released at the start when the codexes had flyers or flying monstrous creatures included (then still fast skimmers and jump monstrous creatures of course). I wouldn't be surprised if they included some form of flyer in their next iteration of their codex, but on the other hand, I could see them becoming the flyer-less codex (relying solely on the Thunderhawk and Drop Pod as means of transportation) like Tyranids are the vehicle-less codex as a way to differentiate the different Marine armies.



They could have given SW the option to get a flyer with the flyer compendium book and the FAQ entries that followed.
C:SM got the stormraven that way after all.
I would not mind SW not having a flyer of their own, but they ought to have some kind of AA apart from Quad guns.
And in keeping with *sarcasm* All space wolves players spamming long fangs, their AA will be free Flakk missiles so you can keep the spam */sarcasm*


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 14:18:05


Post by: Imposter101


Black Templar cover? Interesting.

This leads me to believe that ether the Black Templar's will be rolled into codex space marines with their one character altering the options for other units in the codex, with a possible expansion with their special Chaplin and artifacts.

If this is true.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 14:26:49


Post by: ace101


Imposter101 wrote:
Black Templar cover? Interesting.

This leads me to believe that ether the Black Templar's will be rolled into codex space marines with their one character altering the options for other units in the codex, with a possible expansion with their special Chaplin and artifacts.

If this is true.
Eh, probably lip service to keep you guys satisfied until a supplement/codex release. If they weren't going to be a separate army, then they wouldn't' have their own allies chart section, and the GW people have said they aren't discontinuing any of their existing product lines. Someone already said this earlier, but you guys seem too scared of the BT cover to realize you'll still be different.

I'd personally like to see some blood ravens airtime, since they brought GW more players (including me), and plenty of royalties from Relic, why wouldn't they keep this chapter relevant. Besides, post Retribution we don't know their fate, other than Gabe Angelos is Chapter Master


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 14:28:05


Post by: ashrog


Am I the only one who thinks the new armor type sounds like loyalist obliterators? Could be cool, and could be good conversion fodder for the less chaosy Chaos marines.

I am hoping that IF the major chapters do get special rules, they will not require a special character to unlock. I have Imperial Fists with an allied detachment of Black Templars. I don't want to have to take Lysander every game, let alone him AND Helbrecht.

For the same reason, I would like to have a Black Templars supplement, but a "Sons of Dorn" supplement (covering Fists, other Fists and Templars) would be even better.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 14:57:01


Post by: kronk


Davor wrote:


So would this be a BT supplement then? This I can see if true, anger alot of BT players, making them by 2 books to play their army they so love.


Getting rolled into the C: SM and having a supplemental codex to add on as needed/wanted is perfectly fine with me. Regular updates and all of that.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 14:58:06


Post by: ClassicCarraway


 Fayric wrote:
 RandyMcStab wrote:
Ultras we're rumoured to get a supplement at one point and Iyanden we're still in the Eldar book proper..


The rumor say you get tactical traits depending on what chapter you run, and that, besides fluf, is basicly what a supplement offer.
Iyanden was represented in the eldar codex by half a page worth of fluff, iirc (as all other main craftworlds.


A supplement could offer much more than just tactical traits. After all, the crux of Iyanden was already represented in the main codex (WG as troops), but they added some interesting bits and some FOC shenanigans. Same for the tau supplement. I'd expect the same with the C:SM supplements.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 15:00:44


Post by: Lotus


I do hope they continue to base chapter tactics off of your HQ choice. However I hope that unnamed HQ Choices like regular captains and Librarians allow you to have your pick. I also hope they do not get rid of mounted assault for a vanilla SM Captain as I just put together a bike list.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 15:17:35


Post by: Tagony


Will the different chapter books have special rules for that chapter or will the art just be different I wonder.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 15:32:29


Post by: Azreal13


Oh, will be just the art I'm sure, otherwise you're effectively producing half a dozen different books with the associated increase in production.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 15:35:10


Post by: dienekes96


As LEs, they will just be different cover art.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 15:49:00


Post by: sockwithaticket


Which is why I'm baffled by people saying they'll pay any money for chapter X on the cover...


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 15:51:07


Post by: unmercifulconker


 Tyr Grimtooth wrote:
I just don't get the drama over the Black Templars.

You are a successor that never should have gotten a supplement in the first place and always should have just been a few pages in the SM codex. Flesh Tearers don't have a standalone codex and aren't crying for one. Neither are DA and their vast number of unforgiven successors. Hell, if the Wolf Brothers had not been disbanded, they wouldn't rate a standalone or supplement either. Hopefully BT get rolled rightly into the SM codex and balance is restored.



Hold me back fellas hold me back.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 15:54:45


Post by: Azreal13


sockwithaticket wrote:
Which is why I'm baffled by people saying they'll pay any money for chapter X on the cover...


Really?

People like to have things that are different to other people, people also like to declare their allegiance to specific things by having merchandise with their team/faction/whatever on it.

This combines both of those things.

It's not that hard to understand (and I doubt they'd pay any price, but are exaggerating for effect)


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 16:02:33


Post by: frozenwastes


I wonder how much the tactical box is going to go up in price over the current one. I'm pretty sure the sternguard are going to be the same price per model as the other 5 man plastic elite boxes like BA Sanguinary Guard, Dire Avengers and the two Necron plastic elite boxes. The space marine within a space marine kit will probably be sizable and be something like the Bloodcrushers or the Tau Crisis suits.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 16:07:15


Post by: Davylove21


I'd pay a lot (relative to standard) for Imperial Fists on the cover of a L.E. dex. I got into 40K on the Imperial Fists and have always promised myself I'd return and do them justice one day. This may be my time.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 16:13:41


Post by: Azreal13


 frozenwastes wrote:
I wonder how much the tactical box is going to go up in price over the current one. I'm pretty sure the sternguard are going to be the same price per model as the other 5 man plastic elite boxes like BA Sanguinary Guard, Dire Avengers and the two Necron plastic elite boxes. The space marine within a space marine kit will probably be sizable and be something like the Bloodcrushers or the Tau Crisis suits.


I'd guess we are looking at an increase from £23 to £30 for a 10 man box, going to a 5 man box doesn't quite feel right.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 16:16:36


Post by: unmercifulconker


Plus when Templars get some love, we are probably going to be forking out 50 quid for a squad of crusaders.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 16:37:22


Post by: sockwithaticket


 azreal13 wrote:
sockwithaticket wrote:
Which is why I'm baffled by people saying they'll pay any money for chapter X on the cover...


Really?

People like to have things that are different to other people, people also like to declare their allegiance to specific things by having merchandise with their team/faction/whatever on it.

This combines both of those things.

It's not that hard to understand (and I doubt they'd pay any price, but are exaggerating for effect)


I know they like those things, I just can't get my head around the extra amount of cash people are prepared to fork out for it. Codices are already at an eye-watering price point, the additional cost incurred for having a different cover (which is simply one page) makes them outright unjustifiable to me. But that's the crux of it, everyone's got their own opinion on value and can do with their money as they please. However, I can't say I'll ever be able to fully comprehend the reasoning.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 16:37:31


Post by: 40kFSU


Not sure if anyone has said this. Maybe the concept art will be new devastators. It would fit that a dedicated Hvy wpn squad would have some sort of gear beyond a standard tactical marine.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 16:47:34


Post by: Fayric


 azreal13 wrote:
sockwithaticket wrote:
Which is why I'm baffled by people saying they'll pay any money for chapter X on the cover...


Really?

People like to have things that are different to other people, people also like to declare their allegiance to specific things by having merchandise with their team/faction/whatever on it.

This combines both of those things.

It's not that hard to understand (and I doubt they'd pay any price, but are exaggerating for effect)


Some people complain they have to pay for codex and supplement, others are willing to pay just as much money just to get custom cover art
I admit I thought no one would ever pay that much for a LE fancy cover, but they apparently sell.
Hard to complain about GW prices when you are willing to double the cost for nothing more than a special cover.
I dont blame anyone that get a LE codex though, and I make enough money not to be bothered about GW prices.
(although, I really wanted a Tzeench daemon codex untill I saw the price tag...)


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 16:53:04


Post by: McNinja


BrotherVord wrote:
Wouldn't think confirm that black Templars are being rolled into c:sm? Or is that old news?

Sad if that's the case, everything else sounds nice though
Not entirely bad. This rumour does state that each chapter gets a big portion of the book to themselves. BT may be a supplement that is slated to release just at the SM codex does, or it may be rolled into the new codex. I expect this codex to be massive.

If they end up rolling ALL space marines into the same codex, even those who currently have separate codices, that would be interesting. Honestly, they all aren't that different, but they each to have separate rules and units, which could be defined in that large section. This isn't going to be a codex, this is going to be a freakin' huge tome of all things SM.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 17:04:17


Post by: Azreal13


sockwithaticket wrote:
 azreal13 wrote:
sockwithaticket wrote:
Which is why I'm baffled by people saying they'll pay any money for chapter X on the cover...


Really?

People like to have things that are different to other people, people also like to declare their allegiance to specific things by having merchandise with their team/faction/whatever on it.

This combines both of those things.

It's not that hard to understand (and I doubt they'd pay any price, but are exaggerating for effect)


I know they like those things, I just can't get my head around the extra amount of cash people are prepared to fork out for it. Codices are already at an eye-watering price point, the additional cost incurred for having a different cover (which is simply one page) makes them outright unjustifiable to me. But that's the crux of it, everyone's got their own opinion on value and can do with their money as they please. However, I can't say I'll ever be able to fully comprehend the reasoning.


Absolutely. I would dearly love the Raven Guard version, and right now I'm convinced I will get it. However, when I am faced with the actual prospect of spending over £50 on a book, I'm not sure I will be able to go through with it. At least this may be a more substantial tome than some of the others so far, which may take the edge off.

There are people with waay more money than me though, he won't even blink at spending it (while massively overpriced, in terms of actual money it isn't actually a lot to anyone working a half decent job unless they have a large family or mortgage to support)


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 17:07:22


Post by: Skullhammer


We'll see whats what in a couple of weeks but will the wait be worth it? As to the rumors my daemons like the sound of grav guns as we have no armour so I wonder how that'll work.
Agh questions questions but no answers.


YET!


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/07 01:17:40


Post by: Grimtuff


 azreal13 wrote:
 frozenwastes wrote:
I wonder how much the tactical box is going to go up in price over the current one. I'm pretty sure the sternguard are going to be the same price per model as the other 5 man plastic elite boxes like BA Sanguinary Guard, Dire Avengers and the two Necron plastic elite boxes. The space marine within a space marine kit will probably be sizable and be something like the Bloodcrushers or the Tau Crisis suits.


I'd guess we are looking at an increase from £23 to £30 for a 10 man box, going to a 5 man box doesn't quite feel right.


Tripling in price since their release 15 years ago. Had to happen sometime.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 17:40:33


Post by: BryllCream


So we're knocking GW for price increases that haven't even happened/may not ever happen? Awesome.

Can we also knock GW for causing the apocolypse and sinking the Belgrano?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 17:42:32


Post by: Azreal13


 BryllCream wrote:
So we're knocking GW for price increases that haven't even happened/may not ever happen? Awesome.

Can we also knock GW for causing the apocolypse and sinking the Belgrano?


No.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 18:00:04


Post by: OIIIIIIO


 azreal13 wrote:
 BryllCream wrote:
So we're knocking GW for price increases that haven't even happened/may not ever happen? Awesome.

Can we also knock GW for causing the apocolypse and sinking the Belgrano?


No.

Why not?

It is because of GW that my country is in financial ruin. I did not like him or his dad .... .... wait ... wrong GW.

GW did do apocalypse though ... not the world destroying one but, they DID do an apocalypse .... just saying.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 18:00:18


Post by: Zweischneid


 McNinja wrote:
This rumour does state that each chapter gets a big portion of the book to themselves. BT may be a supplement that is slated to release just at the SM codex does, or it may be rolled into the new codex. I expect this codex to be massive.


Doubtful (though, not entirely impossible)

A) Supplements (thus far) have been English only. If Templars are a supplement, it would effectively mean they are discontinued for all non-English speaking markets by GW.

B) If BT become the first "full-coverage" Supplement (with its own tab in the rule-book's allies-chart on top), it might as well be a full Codex. There'd be no savings/advantage to making them a supplement.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 18:32:20


Post by: Locrian


Anyone else worried that this codex will completely dwarf Codex: Dark Angels which just barely came out this year? Sounds like I'll have to play my DA as generic marines :/


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 18:33:59


Post by: Alpharius


I'm cautiously optimistic about these new mini-dreads/super-terminators.

I'm looking forward to them!


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 18:48:46


Post by: gianlucafiorentini123


- There will be 7 Ltd Ed varients. 6 of these will be covers for First Founding chapters, whilst the 7th will have Black Templars on the cover.

This seems very likely considering they did the four gods for chaos. I'll probably pick up an IF one as long as it's not these guys but knowing GW it'll probably be these guys and advertised as IF/CF.

- There is a new tactical squad. Lots of options as you'd expect, but of particular interest will probably be the grav pistol and grav rifle.

I'd love a new tac squad box (providing it doesn't get cut down to five men in a box or too hefty a price increase). However it doesn't really fit into GW's recent release style.

- A new plastic Sternguard veteran squad.

- A new plastic Vanguard veteran squad.

I'd love a veteran dual kit especially if it's on par with the DC kit.

The rest of the rumours all seem pretty plausible to me. I'm not to sure about the whole power armour on top of power armour idea but if they're like the sketches from earlier they should be sweet looking.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 18:59:15


Post by: pretre


Hmm. Interesting stuff and from Best Pone as well!


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 19:09:28


Post by: prpetros


This is news I like

The whole large dread thing was something my imperial fists siege army could do without. Plastic stern guard will be awesome, and grav guns will give me my reason to buy theses fellows http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Horus_Heresy/Legiones_Astartes/Space_Marine_Legion_Army_List/Legion_Troops/Legion_Breacher_Siege_Squad/LEGION_MKIII_BREACHER_SIEGE_SQUAD.html

Like many plp i would have never thrown cash at the limited edition codex's, but a codex with my chapter on it is swaying me greatly.

Question, if the 6 chapter codex's are limited edition ie most likely £50, what it going to be on the front cover of the £30 Generic SM Codex?



Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 19:39:24


Post by: BryllCream


They look pretty cool...those shields remind me of Army of Two though.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 19:50:47


Post by: Mr.Omega


Has anyone seen Nafka's mythical 'White Dwarf Cover' yet?






Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 19:59:26


Post by: MetalOxide


Grav weapons use armour saves as toughness? Time to build some cultists.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 20:01:25


Post by: 1hadhq


Redemption wrote:Best_Pone over at Warseer, who was also spot on with his High Elf, Eldar, Apocalypse and Black Legion rumours, had this to say about the new Codex: Space Marines:

Best_Pone wrote:Up for release in September is the new Codex: Space Marines.

- There will be 7 Ltd Ed varients. 6 of these will be covers for First Founding chapters, whilst the 7th will have Black Templars on the cover.

- New weapon family: Grav weapons. I believe these wound against the armour save (so terminators would be wounded as if they had a toughness of 2).

- First Founding chapters will be getting a substantial section each to themselves, so hopefully this can be looked as as Codex: Space Marines instead of Codex: Ultramarines. This will also show in a rule called Chapter Tactics, for which the effects depend on the chapter being played.

- There is a new armour type that at first glance looks to be somewhere between a terminator and a dreadnought - looking more closely, it appears to go over the marine's power armour however.
- This new armour can be armed in 2 ways, depending on the user. The devastator version has either a bolter array or missile launchers mounted on the chest armour, whilst the gauntlets can be armed with heavy bolters, lascannons or grav cannons. The assault version has a bolter array or frag launchers mounted on the chest armour, with assault drills mounted on the gauntlets.

- There are 2 new AA tanks. One tank veterans will already be familiar with as the Hunter, armed an AA missile launcher. The other tank mounts 2 tri-barreled turrets instead.

- There is a new tactical squad. Lots of options as you'd expect, but of particular interest will probably be the grav pistol and grav rifle.

- A new plastic Sternguard veteran squad.

- A new plastic Vanguard veteran squad.

- New plastic characters: a captain, a librarian and a chaplain.

Hopefully this will finally dispel the consistent rumours about the SM getting some mega-dreadnought.




Several Limited Editions ? Sure. Good money in exchange of a different cover, isn't it?
Six of them. One per Legio and a general one with a BT cover like the BRB had BT on it in 3rd ed?

Am ok with a basic dex, plus like Ernestas posted, LE 's are English only. Like supplements, who are digital.
Not going to interest me.

Grav weapons. A bit useless to have a name without the stats. Grav vs anti-grav ( ...skimmers... ) what happens??

New armor type.

Plastic veterans. With or without iconography? I'd buy an "expanded" sprue even at a box size of 5 marines if this is adaptable to any codex chapter. Don't care if its all mono-pose crap.

New Tac The current sprue show its age. ( mold lines, etc ). OtoH the risk of a " box of 5 " ... I'd hope the point is to add parts and to renew the kit.

plastic characters. whenever the pics show up, we'll see... There is a lot of black& white. Not looking forward to overblinged models or weird poses.

2x AA tanks. Two of them? miss-iles make sense, but we have a whirlwind as a single build kit. Won't need a tri barreled turret when AA vehicles usually field guns in pairs...

If I had a wish, new bike sprue maybe?
Dear GW, the WS really love their rides. You got an old upgrade kit and an ancient bike sprue.

Zweischneid wrote:
 McNinja wrote:
This rumour does state that each chapter gets a big portion of the book to themselves. BT may be a supplement that is slated to release just at the SM codex does, or it may be rolled into the new codex. I expect this codex to be massive.


Doubtful (though, not entirely impossible)

A) Supplements (thus far) have been English only. If Templars are a supplement, it would effectively mean they are discontinued for all non-English speaking markets by GW.

B) If BT become the first "full-coverage" Supplement (with its own tab in the rule-book's allies-chart on top), it might as well be a full Codex. There'd be no savings/advantage to making them a supplement.




Background material in native and second language is ok, but basic playing stuff isn't.
Digital publications ( with updates ), dead tree format ( with updates? ) and on top of that multiple languages?
Who looks for endless debates may try that..



Release date is September?

GD UK and WD release..
GW wrote:
Meet the Designers

........

You will get the chance to see collections of awesome miniatures from the present day, including many of the miniatures from September's forthcoming release, right the way back to the early years of Citadel Miniatures. Many of these miniatures will be displayed in cabinets while others will be displayed on tables, and all of them manned by members of the design team who can't wait to talk to you about their passion for Citadel miniatures.



The very latest miniatures...

The more eagle-eyed among you will already have noted that this year's Games Day is the same weekend that October's issue of White Dwarf goes on sale. As such, the design team will also be hosting an elaborate display of the miniatures from October's amazing release - the very first place anyone in the world will be able to see them!


not hiding the new releases?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 20:03:40


Post by: DustGod


Oh no….
Everyone want their favorite of flavor of the 31 flavors to be featured…

Wolves… Wrong codex! why is it even being discussed?

Black Templars… I understand, My first real 3000 point army was Crimson Fist… but at this point with all the options the “Nilla” marines get I’m sure you can build a cool army that fits with 90% of the current gear on your models. Not that I’m against Em’ guys don’t get me wrong but…

I’m a little interested in the new troop type… need to see it first it it really does look like a mini Dreadknight I’m good off that…
I don’t like that model and I don’t want a smaller one… if it’s really cool I’ll buy one.

Sternguard… must buy for me. I just love the idea of new helms, combis, and bits… hopefully there are a few new pieces…

Plastic leadership… sweet. Now if the kits have extra bits… alternate heads and arms… especially the Chaplin….

The rest Meh… I only collect to paint and convert now… I lost my competitive edge and the pay to play factor became too much… but I’ll but a marine codex and new stuff if it’s cool.

Stop fighting over your flavors of ice cream kids? 3+ is 3+


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 20:16:36


Post by: Ironwill13791


1hadhq- lets hope this will be a new trend. this format right now stinks to high heaven. a teaser vid 2 weeks before the codex is available to order is not cool. GW can get the buzz going on there products a month or so in advance if they did sneak peeks. I hope what they say they are doing at GD UK will become a new trend kind of like the new codex release rate.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 20:28:53


Post by: Crazyterran


I'm just sitting here.

Hoping the Sternguard box comes with multiple combi-weapons.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 20:30:03


Post by: kronk


Crazyterran wrote:
I'm just sitting here.

Hoping the Sternguard box comes with multiple combi-weapons.


Get this man a beer for hoping the same thing as me.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 20:30:50


Post by: Mr.Omega


Crazyterran wrote:
I'm just sitting here.

Hoping the Sternguard box comes with multiple combi-weapons.



If it does, my plans of having 20 Sternguard all with Combi-plasmas in drop pods might actually come to fruition.

I'm sorry, you said you had a Riptide?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 20:39:13


Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis


Anyone else hoping they do the same that they did with CSM and release a Terminator kit that can be made into either a Captiain or a Libby?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 20:42:58


Post by: dienekes96


That is a decent hint that October is the Mystery Box, since these will be hosted in "an elaborate display of the miniatures from October's amazing release - the very first place anyone in the world will be able to see them!" That basically screams Inquisitor game. But of course people will see them the night before on the pre-release page or in that days WD. Possibly even earlier from leaked pics, but I'll assume that GW keeps that specific issue lidded tight.

I'm happy about both months. I'll be spending some ducats in both Sept and Oct. Maybe I'll get all 7 covers of the Codex, just to irritate the members who don't understand pointless collectors editions.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 20:53:31


Post by: sierra 1247


Damn this had better be true, plastic vets would make my day


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 21:02:56


Post by: Davor


Locrian wrote:
Anyone else worried that this codex will completely dwarf Codex: Dark Angels which just barely came out this year? Sounds like I'll have to play my DA as generic marines :/


Here we go again 5 years later. I think you are the first DA player to start crying/whining.

At least wait for the rules to be know first before you start complaing about plastic toy soldiers.



Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 21:09:02


Post by: kronk


Locrian wrote:
Anyone else worried that this codex will completely dwarf Codex: Dark Angels which just barely came out this year? Sounds like I'll have to play my DA as generic marines :/


Not really. You get bikes and terminators as troops.

Just ally in for any space marine goodies you'd like to add. Simples!


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 21:10:39


Post by: ClockworkZion


Davor wrote:
Locrian wrote:
Anyone else worried that this codex will completely dwarf Codex: Dark Angels which just barely came out this year? Sounds like I'll have to play my DA as generic marines :/


Here we go again 5 years later. I think you are the first DA player to start crying/whining.

At least wait for the rules to be know first before you start complaing about plastic toy soldiers.



Having been following this on multiple boards/sites and abusing Google to try and see what else I could turn up I can say he's not the first. DA and CSM players are already getting their panties in a wad over something they don't even know the rules or points costs to.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 21:13:12


Post by: Kanluwen


Because there totally was not precedent in how Dark Angels got treated the last time there was a C: SM after Dark Angels.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 21:24:39


Post by: MetalOxide


ClockworkZion wrote:
Davor wrote:
Locrian wrote:
Anyone else worried that this codex will completely dwarf Codex: Dark Angels which just barely came out this year? Sounds like I'll have to play my DA as generic marines :/


Here we go again 5 years later. I think you are the first DA player to start crying/whining.

At least wait for the rules to be know first before you start complaing about plastic toy soldiers.



Having been following this on multiple boards/sites and abusing Google to try and see what else I could turn up I can say he's not the first. DA and CSM players are already getting their panties in a wad over something they don't even know the rules or points costs to.


As a Chaos player, I disagree, I am delighted that the Emperor's lap-dogs have got a new codex, my Plague Marines will gleefully stomp the new units of the feeble loyalists and relish converting the new units to Nurgle, turning them into vessels of glorious corruption and pestilence.

DATASHEETS FOR THE DATASHEET GOD!


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 21:29:27


Post by: ClockworkZion


 Kanluwen wrote:
Because there totally was not precedent in how Dark Angels got treated the last time there was a C: SM after Dark Angels.


I don't see rumors about DA losing anything to the Marines this time though.

Really the bitching boiled down to the fact that they wanted the toys the Marines were getting, but don't want to share the ones they have. It was pathetic to see.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 21:29:45


Post by: gianlucafiorentini123


 Ironwill13791 wrote:
1hadhq- lets hope this will be a new trend. this format right now stinks to high heaven. a teaser vid 2 weeks before the codex is available to order is not cool. GW can get the buzz going on there products a month or so in advance if they did sneak peeks. I hope what they say they are doing at GD UK will become a new trend kind of like the new codex release rate.

The way I'm reading it's not a break in trend it's just doing what they always do showing the models the day the WD gets released, the y did it last year with the CSm release.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 21:33:39


Post by: frozenwastes


 BryllCream wrote:
So we're knocking GW for price increases that haven't even happened/may not ever happen? Awesome.

Can we also knock GW for causing the apocolypse and sinking the Belgrano?


What's the matter? You okay?

Don't you think the price of a new product being sold is part of the discussion of the release of that product?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 21:36:40


Post by: MetalOxide


ClockworkZion wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Because there totally was not precedent in how Dark Angels got treated the last time there was a C: SM after Dark Angels.


I don't see rumors about DA losing anything to the Marines this time though.

Really the bitching boiled down to the fact that they wanted the toys the Marines were getting, but don't want to share the ones they have. It was pathetic to see.


Well now all Space Marines can ally with each other so I don't get what the problem is...


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 22:00:07


Post by: DustGod


Meh… my chapter…no my chapter…
NO MY CHAPTER MAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!
Bagh!

I look forward to new 3+ models and bits… because I’m not into the $600.00++ army builds and competitive play anymore I have the luxury of just buying what I want to chop on…

Mark my words this is going to cause massive BS between every Fluff historian, would be expert, Cry Baby, Codex Creep boohoo-er, “my army list is outdated cause I bought the most powerful flash in the pan” “why won’t they Make Rules for my Blood Ravens, my Omega marines… My Mentors!!!!! MKIV bolters are better than MKV… MKVIII armor came out during the Blablabla…..
This is going to be fun!

40K is space marine driven… watching the Crack heads squabble over the crumbs and argue over the most insignificant, irrelevant, frivolous and trifling, crap over the next month or so… great fun.

Dark Angel players with “now my codex sucks…” Black Templars “I want special scouts and 12 man squads….”
If you buy an Army and that army relies on one characters rules to make it function and you go over the top with your build and that Army Now is completely Null and Void because of 2 simple 20 word paragraph rule changes…

I don’t feel sorry for you.

if you’re a player who’s been in the game as long as me since 2nd or 3rd edition and you know this happens with every new edition, the creep, the rules swaps, the obsoleting of specialized armies…

I feel even less sorry for you.

Advice#1 New buyers and Old Power gamers, Build an army that can survive codex changes by following the K.I.S. rule or be ready to Spend another 600.00+++ in 3 years….

Someone already mention the great leader George W. Bush and our current fantastic Leader Barack H. Obama. This is going to be Good…

 MetalOxide wrote:

As a Chaos player, I disagree, I am delighted that the Emperor's lap-dogs have got a new codex, my Plague Marines will gleefully stomp the new units of the feeble loyalists and relish converting the new units to Nurgle, turning them into vessels of glorious corruption and pestilence.

DATASHEETS FOR THE DATASHEET GOD!


You My Man Have your Head screwed on All kinda of straight! my thought exactly...

I see Kanluwen with the DA getting screwed thing... Again!... Lol. Who cares they have Plasma Terminators and you can ally the rest...

oh it's starting it's Starting!!! Popcorns Almost Done!!!!!


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 22:11:44


Post by: Bildsturmer


 5deadly wrote:
Dark Angel players with “now my codex sucks…” Black Templars “I want special scouts and 12 man squads….”
If you buy an Army and that army relies on one characters rules to make it function and you go over the top with your build and that Army Now is completely Null and Void because of 2 simple 20 word paragraph rule changes…

I don’t feel sorry for you.

if you’re a player who’s been in the game as long as me since 2nd or 3rd edition and you know this happens with every new edition, the creep, the rules swaps, the obsoleting of specialized armies…

I feel even less sorry for you.

Advice#1 New buyers and Old Power gamers, Build an army that can survive codex changes by following the K.I.S. rule or be ready to Spend another 600.00+++ in 3 years….


Or just continue to play older editions.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 22:11:53


Post by: Yodhrin


 frozenwastes wrote:
 BryllCream wrote:
So we're knocking GW for price increases that haven't even happened/may not ever happen? Awesome.

Can we also knock GW for causing the apocolypse and sinking the Belgrano?


What's the matter? You okay?

Don't you think the price of a new product being sold is part of the discussion of the release of that product?


The only question I think anyone could ask without incurring the Bryll is; "How awesome is this new GW product, A; Awesome, B; Really Awesome, C; Totally Awesome?"


On the plus side, my initial "I have a bit of sick in my mouth" reaction to the idea of "mini-dreadnaughts/super-termies" is receding slightly, if they are based on some of those concepts. However, the existence of those concepts does raise the possibility that they're the actual source of this rumour, rather than anything tangible.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 22:19:46


Post by: BryllCream


 frozenwastes wrote:
 BryllCream wrote:
So we're knocking GW for price increases that haven't even happened/may not ever happen? Awesome.

Can we also knock GW for causing the apocolypse and sinking the Belgrano?


What's the matter? You okay?

Don't you think the price of a new product being sold is part of the discussion of the release of that product?

Of course it is. But deciding that they are going to double the price, and then knock them for it, makes literally no sense. Wait until we have actual details before whinging about them.

For the record if they do double in price then i will not buy a single tactical box. But I'm fairly confident they won't, £20 for 5 tactical marines would take the piss.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 22:20:13


Post by: DustGod


 Bildsturmer wrote:
 5deadly wrote:
Dark Angel players with “now my codex sucks…” Black Templars “I want special scouts and 12 man squads….”
If you buy an Army and that army relies on one characters rules to make it function and you go over the top with your build and that Army Now is completely Null and Void because of 2 simple 20 word paragraph rule changes…

I don’t feel sorry for you.

if you’re a player who’s been in the game as long as me since 2nd or 3rd edition and you know this happens with every new edition, the creep, the rules swaps, the obsoleting of specialized armies…

I feel even less sorry for you.

Advice#1 New buyers and Old Power gamers, Build an army that can survive codex changes by following the K.I.S. rule or be ready to Spend another 600.00+++ in 3 years….


Or just continue to play older editions.


Yeah or INQ28 or just focus on making fantastic models. if the new Skirmish is GWs Brand name INQ28 I'll play that...


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 22:23:08


Post by: ClockworkZion


 BryllCream wrote:
 frozenwastes wrote:
 BryllCream wrote:
So we're knocking GW for price increases that haven't even happened/may not ever happen? Awesome.

Can we also knock GW for causing the apocolypse and sinking the Belgrano?


What's the matter? You okay?

Don't you think the price of a new product being sold is part of the discussion of the release of that product?

Of course it is. But deciding that they are going to double the price, and then knock them for it, makes literally no sense. Wait until we have actual details before whinging about them.

For the record if they do double in price then i will not buy a single tactical box. But I'm fairly confident they won't, £20 for 5 tactical marines would take the piss.


I actually agree with that statement. Complaining about things that don't exist yet is like complaining that someone's imaginary friend is a blue dragon. It doesn't really get you anywhere and it makes you look kind of silly because you're complaining about something that isn't real.

Once rumors become reality then the real bitching can properly begin because then the actual truths of the release will be known and everyone will actually have ammunition for their arguments.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 22:27:32


Post by: NickTheButcher


As a Salamander player, I cant fething wait!

Ive always been a budget player (at least as much as possible in this hobby) but I have a feeling that mentality may go out the window next month......


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 22:28:58


Post by: Ironwill13791


ClockworkZion wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Because there totally was not precedent in how Dark Angels got treated the last time there was a C: SM after Dark Angels.


I don't see rumors about DA losing anything to the Marines this time though.

Really the bitching boiled down to the fact that they wanted the toys the Marines were getting, but don't want to share the ones they have. It was pathetic to see.


For me it was the shock factor. I was like "aww man that is so cool and that makes rhinos better and that gives them better AA. We (DA) didn't get this.". Then after cooling down, and someone mentioning allies (didn't even cross my mind cause I haven't really used them), I went " Well my codex is perfectly balanced for 6th and has it's own cool stuff and gimmicks. The sky isn't falling and this situation isn't at all the same as the last time. So now I can start on that custom chapter I was designing fluff for awhile back, and ally in with my DA thus stealing all the new shinies for them."

Allies is an even more cool concept now. Because now I can play the cool new marine stuff without losing my favorites the DA, but instead amplify them. I stand behind a lot of what I say, but DA getting screwed from the new C:SM drop isn't one of them (thank you allies). Sometimes you just need a kick in the pants by a bunch of random people to get your head on straight.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 22:35:45


Post by: Azreal13



ClockworkZion wrote:
 BryllCream wrote:
 frozenwastes wrote:
 BryllCream wrote:
So we're knocking GW for price increases that haven't even happened/may not ever happen? Awesome.

Can we also knock GW for causing the apocolypse and sinking the Belgrano?


What's the matter? You okay?

Don't you think the price of a new product being sold is part of the discussion of the release of that product?

Of course it is. But deciding that they are going to double the price, and then knock them for it, makes literally no sense. Wait until we have actual details before whinging about them.

For the record if they do double in price then i will not buy a single tactical box. But I'm fairly confident they won't, £20 for 5 tactical marines would take the piss.


I actually agree with that statement. Complaining about things that don't exist yet is like complaining that someone's imaginary friend is a blue dragon. It doesn't really get you anywhere and it makes you look kind of silly because you're complaining about something that isn't real.


I'd agree too, until you look at the root of that quote tree, and find that Bryllo is once again, shall we say, exaggerating for effect? I actually suggested..

azreal13 wrote:
 frozenwastes wrote:
I wonder how much the tactical box is going to go up in price over the current one. I'm pretty sure the sternguard are going to be the same price per model as the other 5 man plastic elite boxes like BA Sanguinary Guard, Dire Avengers and the two Necron plastic elite boxes. The space marine within a space marine kit will probably be sizable and be something like the Bloodcrushers or the Tau Crisis suits.


I'd guess we are looking at an increase from £23 to £30 for a 10 man box, going to a 5 man box doesn't quite feel right.


To which Grimtuff responded

Grimtuff wrote:
Tripling in price since their release 15 years ago. Had to happen sometime.


So, tripling of price, yes, but over 15 years, and, I believe a recut sprue?

But the strawman holocaust in Notts continues apace.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 22:48:09


Post by: insaniak


 BryllCream wrote:
For the record if they do double in price then i will not buy a single tactical box. But I'm fairly confident they won't, £20 for 5 tactical marines would take the piss.

There are a few Imperial Guard troopers and Ork Boyz out there who think that halving the box contents isn't such a difficult move to believe...


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 22:49:13


Post by: DustGod





 Ironwill13791 wrote:


For me it was the shock factor. I was like "aww man that is so cool and that makes rhinos better and that gives them better AA. We (DA) didn't get this.". Then after cooling down, and someone mentioning allies (didn't even cross my mind cause I haven't really used them), I went " Well my codex is perfectly balanced for 6th and has it's own cool stuff and gimmicks. The sky isn't falling and this situation isn't at all the same as the last time. So now I can start on that custom chapter I was designing fluff for awhile back, and ally in with my DA thus stealing all the new shinies for them."

Allies is an even more cool concept now. Because now I can play the cool new marine stuff without losing my favorites the DA, but instead amplify them. I stand behind a lot of what I say, but DA getting screwed from the new C:SM drop isn't one of them (thank you allies). Sometimes you just need a kick in the pants by a bunch of random people to get your head on straight.


And you Do have your Head Screwed on Straight man! Bring what you want Now.... want DA and SW do it. want Exodites mix Dark n Light until grey.... it's pretty open so no one should really be that worried...

Lets watch the fire works.. anytime now it'll be 5 man squads for $40... But it's the norm now, it's like complaining about the price of gas or milk. You’re really just complaining to complain.

with the Ally rule you can do so many things now... I kinda want to play again.

 NickTheButcher wrote:
As a Salamander player, I cant fething wait!

Ive always been a budget player (at least as much as possible in this hobby) but I have a feeling that mentality may go out the window next month......


I did 1500 points of them during 3rd burning down the House! I did the brown skin with blonde hair looked like an army of Dennis Rodmans. Fire on Green.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 23:11:05


Post by: Grimtuff


 azreal13 wrote:


I'd agree too, until you look at the root of that quote tree, and find that Bryllo is once again, shall we say, exaggerating for effect? I actually suggested..

azreal13 wrote:
 frozenwastes wrote:
I wonder how much the tactical box is going to go up in price over the current one. I'm pretty sure the sternguard are going to be the same price per model as the other 5 man plastic elite boxes like BA Sanguinary Guard, Dire Avengers and the two Necron plastic elite boxes. The space marine within a space marine kit will probably be sizable and be something like the Bloodcrushers or the Tau Crisis suits.


I'd guess we are looking at an increase from £23 to £30 for a 10 man box, going to a 5 man box doesn't quite feel right.


To which Grimtuff responded

Grimtuff wrote:
Tripling in price since their release 15 years ago. Had to happen sometime.


So, tripling of price, yes, but over 15 years, and, I believe a recut sprue?

But the strawman holocaust in Notts continues apace.


Indeed. It was a simple statement of (a hypothetical) fact. No complaining to be seen. Ol' Brylly just wants a reason to attack us "butthurt brigadeers".

I fully see them doing 10 Tactical for £30. Mainly to keep the heavy weapons in the box, as if they put them in a 5 man box, how many illegal squads are the kiddies going to make?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 23:12:31


Post by: frozenwastes


 BryllCream wrote:

Of course it is. But deciding that they are going to double the price, and then knock them for it, makes literally no sense. Wait until we have actual details before whinging about them.

For the record if they do double in price then i will not buy a single tactical box. But I'm fairly confident they won't, £20 for 5 tactical marines would take the piss.


If you are responding to an individual post, it's often a good idea to quote it rather than to make a blanket statement about everyone involved in an aspect of the discussion.

I don't see why, at this point, GW would depart from the way they are pricing their various 40k releases. 10 man troop choice for X, 5 man elite boxes for Y. Large robots like killa kans or tau crisis suits for Z.

So I expect to see the plastic sternguard and vanguard at the same price as Dire Avengers and the Necron Immortals.

However, when there's good demand for something, you can push the price a bit. Space Marines sell so well, I bet they could include a few more options per kit and justify going slightly higher than the existing prices on their 10 model and 5 model kits.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 23:15:12


Post by: NickTheButcher


 5deadly wrote:



 Ironwill13791 wrote:


For me it was the shock factor. I was like "aww man that is so cool and that makes rhinos better and that gives them better AA. We (DA) didn't get this.". Then after cooling down, and someone mentioning allies (didn't even cross my mind cause I haven't really used them), I went " Well my codex is perfectly balanced for 6th and has it's own cool stuff and gimmicks. The sky isn't falling and this situation isn't at all the same as the last time. So now I can start on that custom chapter I was designing fluff for awhile back, and ally in with my DA thus stealing all the new shinies for them."

Allies is an even more cool concept now. Because now I can play the cool new marine stuff without losing my favorites the DA, but instead amplify them. I stand behind a lot of what I say, but DA getting screwed from the new C:SM drop isn't one of them (thank you allies). Sometimes you just need a kick in the pants by a bunch of random people to get your head on straight.


Lets watch the fire works.. anytime now it'll be 5 man squads for $40... But it's the norm now, it's like complaining about the price of gas or milk. You’re really just complaining to complain.



 NickTheButcher wrote:
As a Salamander player, I cant fething wait!

Ive always been a budget player (at least as much as possible in this hobby) but I have a feeling that mentality may go out the window next month......


I did 1500 points of them during 3rd burning down the House! I did the brown skin with blonde hair looked like an army of Dennis Rodmans. Fire on Green.


Agreed with the comment regarding price. To add a couple things:

1. The hobby is expensive as it is anyway
2. How many tac squads do people need to buy? Existing SM players will likely only have to get models for the new weapon options. New/future/or players that DO need whole squads may be screwed but could always stock up on them now.....

Point being that this isn't the first time GW has increased prices like this. Is it really that surprising? Not that long ago I could get a land raider for $55 now its $75.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 23:16:25


Post by: frozenwastes


What would be sad/hilarious would be if they made combat squads the level you choose and buy at and then go to 5 marine boxes like the Grey Knight troop choice boxes.

1 Troop choice = 2 combat squads bought separately.

With Grey Knights being special hopefully they won't bring the 5 marine box to the codex marines.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 23:24:17


Post by: Cladmir


 azreal13 wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
 BryllCream wrote:
 frozenwastes wrote:
 BryllCream wrote:
So we're knocking GW for price increases that haven't even happened/may not ever happen? Awesome.

Can we also knock GW for causing the apocolypse and sinking the Belgrano?


What's the matter? You okay?

Don't you think the price of a new product being sold is part of the discussion of the release of that product?

Of course it is. But deciding that they are going to double the price, and then knock them for it, makes literally no sense. Wait until we have actual details before whinging about them.

For the record if they do double in price then i will not buy a single tactical box. But I'm fairly confident they won't, £20 for 5 tactical marines would take the piss.


I actually agree with that statement. Complaining about things that don't exist yet is like complaining that someone's imaginary friend is a blue dragon. It doesn't really get you anywhere and it makes you look kind of silly because you're complaining about something that isn't real.


I'd agree too, until you look at the root of that quote tree, and find that Bryllo is once again, shall we say, exaggerating for effect? I actually suggested..

azreal13 wrote:
 frozenwastes wrote:
I wonder how much the tactical box is going to go up in price over the current one. I'm pretty sure the sternguard are going to be the same price per model as the other 5 man plastic elite boxes like BA Sanguinary Guard, Dire Avengers and the two Necron plastic elite boxes. The space marine within a space marine kit will probably be sizable and be something like the Bloodcrushers or the Tau Crisis suits.


I'd guess we are looking at an increase from £23 to £30 for a 10 man box, going to a 5 man box doesn't quite feel right.


To which Grimtuff responded

Grimtuff wrote:
Tripling in price since their release 15 years ago. Had to happen sometime.


So, tripling of price, yes, but over 15 years, and, I believe a recut sprue?

But the strawman holocaust in Notts continues apace.


Gas price in 1998: ~$1.03
Gas price in 2013 (15 years later): ~$3.15

Tripling of price over 15 years. Hmmmm....


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 23:27:43


Post by: CalgarsPimpHand


 5deadly wrote:

Dark Angel players with “now my codex sucks…” Black Templars “I want special scouts and 12 man squads….”
If you buy an Army and that army relies on one characters rules to make it function and you go over the top with your build and that Army Now is completely Null and Void because of 2 simple 20 word paragraph rule changes…

I don’t feel sorry for you.


I've been keeping my mouth shut all thread, but the ignorance on display here is astounding. The amount of condescending bull you squeezed into just a few sentences blew my mind.

You think Black Templar players are upset because some specific BT build might be invalidated? And you think if it happens it's their own fault because they went "over the top" with a list that required "one character" to make it function? Dude, try invalidation of their entire army, from all their special traits right down to their basic weapons loadout on their standard marines. And their only fault was buying a codex they liked and believing GW when they said they weren't Squatting any more armies (they might not truly be Squatted, but depending on how the rules shake up it could be close enough for some people).


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 23:34:20


Post by: Eldarain


The assumption that being included in the main space marine codex guarantees the loss of their unique differences is just as misguided.

The last book allowed White Scars players to field a complete bike army with the use of outflanking, not exactly straight out of Guilliman's playbook.

Being in Codex Space Marines does not automatically doom you to Codex Astartes compliance.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/04 23:48:32


Post by: BryllCream


 insaniak wrote:
 BryllCream wrote:
For the record if they do double in price then i will not buy a single tactical box. But I'm fairly confident they won't, £20 for 5 tactical marines would take the piss.

There are a few Imperial Guard troopers and Ork Boyz out there who think that halving the box contents isn't such a difficult move to believe...

Didn't an exec say that marine Tactical boxes made up a majority of their sales? Or a large amount anyway. Halving the content of their flagship box would be a bold move, their pricing strategy seems to be keeping troops reasonably priced, while charging top dolla for the more powerful/rare units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 azreal13 wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
 BryllCream wrote:
 frozenwastes wrote:
 BryllCream wrote:
So we're knocking GW for price increases that haven't even happened/may not ever happen? Awesome.

Can we also knock GW for causing the apocolypse and sinking the Belgrano?


What's the matter? You okay?

Don't you think the price of a new product being sold is part of the discussion of the release of that product?

Of course it is. But deciding that they are going to double the price, and then knock them for it, makes literally no sense. Wait until we have actual details before whinging about them.

For the record if they do double in price then i will not buy a single tactical box. But I'm fairly confident they won't, £20 for 5 tactical marines would take the piss.


I actually agree with that statement. Complaining about things that don't exist yet is like complaining that someone's imaginary friend is a blue dragon. It doesn't really get you anywhere and it makes you look kind of silly because you're complaining about something that isn't real.


I'd agree too, until you look at the root of that quote tree, and find that Bryllo is once again, shall we say, exaggerating for effect? I actually suggested..

azreal13 wrote:
 frozenwastes wrote:
I wonder how much the tactical box is going to go up in price over the current one. I'm pretty sure the sternguard are going to be the same price per model as the other 5 man plastic elite boxes like BA Sanguinary Guard, Dire Avengers and the two Necron plastic elite boxes. The space marine within a space marine kit will probably be sizable and be something like the Bloodcrushers or the Tau Crisis suits.


I'd guess we are looking at an increase from £23 to £30 for a 10 man box, going to a 5 man box doesn't quite feel right.


To which Grimtuff responded

Grimtuff wrote:
Tripling in price since their release 15 years ago. Had to happen sometime.


So, tripling of price, yes, but over 15 years, and, I believe a recut sprue?

But the strawman holocaust in Notts continues apace.

I don't see what you're trying to say here? I was addressing speculation on future price rises, which the posts directly above mine specifically mentioned.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 00:08:32


Post by: insaniak


 BryllCream wrote:
... their pricing strategy seems to be keeping troops reasonably priced, while charging top dolla for the more powerful/rare units..

Again, the nearly doubling in price of Imperial Guard and Ork basic troops belies this idea.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 00:20:00


Post by: Kanluwen


 insaniak wrote:
 BryllCream wrote:
... their pricing strategy seems to be keeping troops reasonably priced, while charging top dolla for the more powerful/rare units..

Again, the nearly doubling in price of Imperial Guard and Ork basic troops belies this idea.

I do not disagree with the facts of your post Insaniak, but I do want to point out that Imperial Guard no longer are restricted to two squads and a command minimum for a single Troop choice.

If the only Troop choice still was the single Platoon? I would have been a lot more frustrated with the move to the 10 model box from the 20 model box.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 00:20:49


Post by: MandalorynOranj


 insaniak wrote:
 BryllCream wrote:
... their pricing strategy seems to be keeping troops reasonably priced, while charging top dolla for the more powerful/rare units..

Again, the nearly doubling in price of Imperial Guard and Ork basic troops belies this idea.

And if you want to look even more recently, hello Dire Avengers!


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 00:21:34


Post by: BryllCream


 insaniak wrote:
 BryllCream wrote:
... their pricing strategy seems to be keeping troops reasonably priced, while charging top dolla for the more powerful/rare units..

Again, the nearly doubling in price of Imperial Guard and Ork basic troops belies this idea.

If we're using that logic then there are far more boxes that did not double in price than did. I could take Deamon Flamers as an example and claim that GW were lowering prices and I'd be flamed into oblivion, you can't take two isolated price increased and claim that that is a trend that GW are adhering too when they simply are not.

Some boxes have gone up in price a lot more than others, yes. But you have no reason whatsoever to assume that Tactical Squads will be one of the ones that does so to a drastic amount. It would be perfectly sensible to presume that they will go up by the average price increases - let's say 10%, since no one has any figures I may as well pull one out of my arse. That'd make a tactical squad £25.30. Fairly expensive yes, but not "omgwtf" expensive like Land Raiders or Valkyries.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 00:23:13


Post by: Azreal13


 BryllCream wrote:

I don't see what you're trying to say here? I was addressing speculation on future price rises, which the posts directly above mine specifically mentioned.


So this is addressing speculation?

BryllCream wrote:So we're knocking GW for price increases that haven't even happened/may not ever happen? Awesome.

Can we also knock GW for causing the apocolypse and sinking the Belgrano?


That's not "addressing speculation" that's complaining about people speculating. The post immediately above this was Grimtuff's which was quoting mine.

Again, you're defending against perceived attacks that aren't there by strawmanning like a Victorian farmer at harvest time (or something.) Like usual.

If you weren't specifically addressing our points, then as has been out to you already, its best to quote the posts you're responding to, or people will simply assume that its the one directly above.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 00:24:20


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Dire Avengers are the latest. I can really see Tac Squads being next.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 00:26:11


Post by: BryllCream


 azreal13 wrote:
 BryllCream wrote:

I don't see what you're trying to say here? I was addressing speculation on future price rises, which the posts directly above mine specifically mentioned.


So this is addressing speculation?

BryllCream wrote:So we're knocking GW for price increases that haven't even happened/may not ever happen? Awesome.

Can we also knock GW for causing the apocolypse and sinking the Belgrano?


That's not "addressing speculation" that's complaining about people speculating. The post immediately above this was Grimtuff's which was quoting mine.

Again, you're defending against perceived attacks that aren't there by strawmanning like a Victorian farmer at harvest time (or something.) Like usual.

If you weren't specifically addressing our points, then as has been out to you already, its best to quote the posts you're responding to, or people will simply assume that its the one directly above.

So you *do* think that it's legitimate to bash GW for price increases that haven't happened and that we don't know will happen? Just so we're clear. And to try and address actual content rather than "lol bryllcream y you strawknight".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Dire Avengers are the latest. I can really see Tac Squads being next.

Well it would suck if that was the case. Tactical squads are very big sellers in a way that Dire Avengers are not. The starter set stayed cheap, I think tactical squads will too. But I wouldn't put my house on it.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 00:29:38


Post by: Kanluwen


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Dire Avengers are the latest. I can really see Tac Squads being next.

Whoa HB.

At least Tactical Squads are getting the New Gravity Gun Accessory Sprue in their box.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 00:31:06


Post by: insaniak


 BryllCream wrote:
If we're using that logic then there are far more boxes that did not double in price than did. I could take Deamon Flamers as an example and claim that GW were lowering prices and I'd be flamed into oblivion, you can't take two isolated price increased and claim that that is a trend that GW are adhering too when they simply are not.

I'm not saying that it's a trend. I'm saying that it wouldn't be particularly surprising, based on previous actions.


Some boxes have gone up in price a lot more than others, yes. But you have no reason whatsoever to assume that Tactical Squads will be one of the ones that does so to a drastic amount. It would be perfectly sensible to presume that they will go up by the average price increases - let's say 10%, since no one has any figures I may as well pull one out of my arse. That'd make a tactical squad £25.30. Fairly expensive yes, but not "omgwtf" expensive like Land Raiders or Valkyries.

If it stays with the 10-man box, I would expect it to increase to around the £30 to £35 mark, given that the last couple of army releases have seen prices lifted worldwide to come more in line with Australian pricing.

Your £25.30 would be more likely for a 5-man box, since that's about the price of the 5-man Combat Squad box in Australia now.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 00:36:19


Post by: BryllCream


 insaniak wrote:
 BryllCream wrote:
If we're using that logic then there are far more boxes that did not double in price than did. I could take Deamon Flamers as an example and claim that GW were lowering prices and I'd be flamed into oblivion, you can't take two isolated price increased and claim that that is a trend that GW are adhering too when they simply are not.

I'm not saying that it's a trend. I'm saying that it wouldn't be particularly surprising, based on previous actions.

You don't think that tactical squads being their best selling box, in the most popular army, that's specifically aimed at newcomers, is important? Dire Avengers presumably went up in cost because they were selling so few that the line simply wasn't profitable as it was - hence why the other eldar boxes did *not* go up in price, as they presumably were. Tactical Squads are insanely popular, which is why increasing the price would be so risky.



If it stays with the 10-man box, I would expect it to increase to around the £30 to £35 mark, given that the last couple of army releases have seen prices lifted worldwide to come more in line with Australian pricing.

Your £25.30 would be more likely for a 5-man box, since that's about the price of the 5-man Combat Squad box in Australia now.

I didn't follow price increases in sixth. I don't know what the average increase in price of troop sections in Demons, Chaos, Tau and Eldar but I suspect it's not the 30-40% you're speculating.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 00:37:57


Post by: ultimentra


 insaniak wrote:
 BryllCream wrote:
... their pricing strategy seems to be keeping troops reasonably priced, while charging top dolla for the more powerful/rare units..

Again, the nearly doubling in price of Imperial Guard and Ork basic troops belies this idea.


fething this, I'm sorry but $30 USD for 10 guys? Yea I get it, we have some bits in there, like vox packs, flamers, and some grenades, but thats it. Guardsmen kits are good, but not 30 dollars good. 3 dollars per guardsman is highway robbery.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 00:43:44


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 BryllCream wrote:
So you *do* think that it's legitimate to bash GW for price increases that haven't happened and that we don't know will happen? Just so we're clear. And to try and address actual content rather than "lol bryllcream y you strawknight".


1. That's not what he's saying at all.
2. You are straw-manning. It's what you do. It's what you always do. It's the only thing you do.

You're a straw-based lifeform.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 00:47:15


Post by: MandalorynOranj


Nobody's bashing GW for doing something they haven't done, they're saying it's perfectly reasonable to expect a price raise like that given recent releases, and to prepare accordingly.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 00:49:35


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 MandalorynOranj wrote:
Nobody's bashing GW for doing something they haven't done, they're saying it's perfectly reasonable to expect a price raise like that given recent releases, and to prepare accordingly.


We get that. He doesn't. That's the problem.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 00:50:57


Post by: MandalorynOranj


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 MandalorynOranj wrote:
Nobody's bashing GW for doing something they haven't done, they're saying it's perfectly reasonable to expect a price raise like that given recent releases, and to prepare accordingly.


We get that. He doesn't. That's the problem.

I know, I was hoping spelling it out simply and concisely might help .


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 00:51:50


Post by: Azreal13


 BryllCream wrote:
 azreal13 wrote:
 BryllCream wrote:

I don't see what you're trying to say here? I was addressing speculation on future price rises, which the posts directly above mine specifically mentioned.


So this is addressing speculation?

BryllCream wrote:So we're knocking GW for price increases that haven't even happened/may not ever happen? Awesome.

Can we also knock GW for causing the apocolypse and sinking the Belgrano?


That's not "addressing speculation" that's complaining about people speculating. The post immediately above this was Grimtuff's which was quoting mine.

Again, you're defending against perceived attacks that aren't there by strawmanning like a Victorian farmer at harvest time (or something.) Like usual.

If you weren't specifically addressing our points, then as has been out to you already, its best to quote the posts you're responding to, or people will simply assume that its the one directly above.

So you *do* think that it's legitimate to bash GW for price increases that haven't happened and that we don't know will happen? Just so we're clear. And to try and address actual content rather than "lol bryllcream y you strawknight".


For the love of...

Look, nobody that I've seen, certainly not myself or Grimtuff, who I've assumed you were mainly responding to and have yet to be corrected, were doing any "bashing."

Personally though, if someone were to extrapolate GW's past behaviour and apply it to the rumour of a new kit with increased options, and came to the conclusion that they might reduce the model count while maintaining the price, I couldn't fault their logic.

I wouldn't necessarily agree as I've already stated that I believe the 10 man box will remain and the price go up, but if you can find one instance in this thread where I have bashed GW, I will buy YOU a new Tac Squad if/when they come out, as I personally feel that the SM Tac box is one of the best value kits they do, and still wouldn't feel too hard done by if they charge £30 if they increase the options in the kit.

But yeah, I'm bashing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ha!

I spend a few minutes in the post edit page composing a response, and there's a whole new page refuting what Brylcreem's trying to push!


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 00:53:54


Post by: Kingsley


I'll be (unpleasantly) surprised if GW takes Tacticals to five to a box.

Dire Avengers being five to a box at least make sense in that almost everyone takes them in five-man units-- but the entire point of a Space Marine Tactical Squad is supposed to be that it's ten guys, and if the box doesn't come with ten that's more than a little silly.

I suppose we'll see, though. Truth be told, I have so many Space Marines right now that whether or not I buy is basically down to whether new bitz are cool. Ironically, that means selling a box of five would actually be more efficient for me, as it would likely have a better "new bitz/bodies" ratio-- but boxes of ten seem much more appealing to those who don't already have lots of Marines.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 00:58:33


Post by: Jeff Newton


There is also a 5 man combat squad box that doesn't have the special or heavy weapons with it.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 01:00:08


Post by: BryllCream


 MandalorynOranj wrote:
Nobody's bashing GW for doing something they haven't done, they're saying it's perfectly reasonable to expect a price raise like that given recent releases, and to prepare accordingly.

So the troop boxes of the releases this year have had a 30% price rise?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 01:03:01


Post by: Azreal13


 BryllCream wrote:
 MandalorynOranj wrote:
Nobody's bashing GW for doing something they haven't done, they're saying it's perfectly reasonable to expect a price raise like that given recent releases, and to prepare accordingly.

So the troop boxes of the releases this year have had a 30% price rise?


Actually, I'm pretty sure that the only new release/reboxing of a troops choice so far in 6th has been Dire Avengers, so, on that assumption, yes.

Daemons all went from a min 5 to 10 as well, so not a technical increase, but does mean two boxes are needed for a legal army where previously one would have done the job.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 01:03:34


Post by: Davor


ClockworkZion wrote:
Davor wrote:
Locrian wrote:
Anyone else worried that this codex will completely dwarf Codex: Dark Angels which just barely came out this year? Sounds like I'll have to play my DA as generic marines :/


Here we go again 5 years later. I think you are the first DA player to start crying/whining.

At least wait for the rules to be know first before you start complaing about plastic toy soldiers.



Having been following this on multiple boards/sites and abusing Google to try and see what else I could turn up I can say he's not the first. DA and CSM players are already getting their panties in a wad over something they don't even know the rules or points costs to.


If that is the case, I am really going to have to try and ignore these posts. I guess I have no one but me to blame if I start arguing with people again. Thanks for the heads up.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 01:04:47


Post by: gorgon


 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:
I've been keeping my mouth shut all thread, but the ignorance on display here is astounding. The amount of condescending bull you squeezed into just a few sentences blew my mind.

You think Black Templar players are upset because some specific BT build might be invalidated? And you think if it happens it's their own fault because they went "over the top" with a list that required "one character" to make it function? Dude, try invalidation of their entire army, from all their special traits right down to their basic weapons loadout on their standard marines. And their only fault was buying a codex they liked and believing GW when they said they weren't Squatting any more armies (they might not truly be Squatted, but depending on how the rules shake up it could be close enough for some people).


We've heard rumors that supplements will be somewhat more involved than Iyanden going forward.

So hypothetically speaking, let's say they have their chapter trait in the SM codex (Crusader?). Then in the supplement are the rules for the Emperor's Champ (with a vow system that you get if you take the Champ) and a Crusader Squad Troops choice with CCW options and the ability to attach Scout squads in some way.

Would that really be a travesty for BT players? Certainly it forces them to buy two codicies, which isn't ideal. But doesn't something like what I outlined (obviously roughly) cover the most important bases?

Here's another wild speculation. What if the new Tac Squad (box and rules) has options for CCWs? Then they wouldn't even need Crusader Squad rules in the supplement, and GW wouldn't need to to add another box for BTs. Probably won't happen, but it'd make some sense.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 01:08:24


Post by: insaniak


 Kingsley wrote:
...but the entire point of a Space Marine Tactical Squad is supposed to be that it's ten guys, and if the box doesn't come with ten that's more than a little silly..

This is a company that for some years sold Aspect Warriors, with minimum squads size of 5 models, only in blisters of 3 or 4...

I coud very easily see them dropping the Tactical box to 5 guys with 1 each of each special weapon, and keeping the current Combat Squad box to supplement numbers for Tactical and Devastator squads.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 01:10:42


Post by: BryllCream


 azreal13 wrote:
 BryllCream wrote:
 MandalorynOranj wrote:
Nobody's bashing GW for doing something they haven't done, they're saying it's perfectly reasonable to expect a price raise like that given recent releases, and to prepare accordingly.

So the troop boxes of the releases this year have had a 30% price rise?


Actually, I'm pretty sure that the only new release/reboxing of a troops choice so far in 6th has been Dire Avengers, so, on that assumption, yes.

Daemons all went from a min 5 to 10 as well, so not a technical increase, but does mean two boxes are needed for a legal army where previously one would have done the job.

Oh I missed the line about the reboxing. My bad.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 01:15:35


Post by: Azreal13


 BryllCream wrote:
 azreal13 wrote:
 BryllCream wrote:
 MandalorynOranj wrote:
Nobody's bashing GW for doing something they haven't done, they're saying it's perfectly reasonable to expect a price raise like that given recent releases, and to prepare accordingly.

So the troop boxes of the releases this year have had a 30% price rise?


Actually, I'm pretty sure that the only new release/reboxing of a troops choice so far in 6th has been Dire Avengers, so, on that assumption, yes.

Daemons all went from a min 5 to 10 as well, so not a technical increase, but does mean two boxes are needed for a legal army where previously one would have done the job.

Oh I missed the line about the reboxing. My bad.


Huh?

What line?

You asked if the troops of this years releases had had a 30% increase, they have for two releases, as they have had their contents reduced or minimum unit size increased, I don't get why a reboxing (which the DA were, but were sold as a new release cause GW seem to think we're all mentally challenged goldfish) is relevant?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 01:17:09


Post by: BryllCream


The line in the OP. I didn't realise tactical squads were being reboxed.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 01:19:55


Post by: Azreal13


 BryllCream wrote:
The line in the OP. I didn't realise tactical squads were being reboxed.


That's because there isn't one?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 01:20:43


Post by: BryllCream


- There is a new tactical squad. Lots of options as you'd expect, but of particular interest will probably be the grav pistol and grav rifle.



Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 01:26:48


Post by: Azreal13


 BryllCream wrote:
- There is a new tactical squad. Lots of options as you'd expect, but of particular interest will probably be the grav pistol and grav rifle.



That says new? That's not necessarily a rebox, in fact, with new options its not possible to rebox it, as the sprues will need to be recut with new moulds.

The Dire Avengers were a rebox, as they simply took a 5 man sprue out, and started selling the 5 man box for essentially the same price as the previous 10, and that is why so many people's noses are out of joint.

The new Tac Squad may well reuse the same components, but they will be on new sprues.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 01:32:09


Post by: Kingsley


 insaniak wrote:
 Kingsley wrote:
...but the entire point of a Space Marine Tactical Squad is supposed to be that it's ten guys, and if the box doesn't come with ten that's more than a little silly..

This is a company that for some years sold Aspect Warriors, with minimum squads size of 5 models, only in blisters of 3 or 4...

I coud very easily see them dropping the Tactical box to 5 guys with 1 each of each special weapon, and keeping the current Combat Squad box to supplement numbers for Tactical and Devastator squads.


I could definitely see the Tactical box becoming five guys and the current sprue with the ML/special weapons/Sergeant, but I wouldn't particularly like it!


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 01:38:21


Post by: d3m01iti0n


 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:
 5deadly wrote:

Dark Angel players with “now my codex sucks…” Black Templars “I want special scouts and 12 man squads….”
If you buy an Army and that army relies on one characters rules to make it function and you go over the top with your build and that Army Now is completely Null and Void because of 2 simple 20 word paragraph rule changes…

I don’t feel sorry for you.


I've been keeping my mouth shut all thread, but the ignorance on display here is astounding. The amount of condescending bull you squeezed into just a few sentences blew my mind.

You think Black Templar players are upset because some specific BT build might be invalidated? And you think if it happens it's their own fault because they went "over the top" with a list that required "one character" to make it function? Dude, try invalidation of their entire army, from all their special traits right down to their basic weapons loadout on their standard marines. And their only fault was buying a codex they liked and believing GW when they said they weren't Squatting any more armies (they might not truly be Squatted, but depending on how the rules shake up it could be close enough for some people).


Couldnt have said it better myself.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 01:41:25


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Kingsley wrote:
Dire Avengers being five to a box at least make sense in that almost everyone takes them in five-man units...


So doubling their price "made sense"?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 01:41:46


Post by: d3m01iti0n


 gorgon wrote:
 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:
I've been keeping my mouth shut all thread, but the ignorance on display here is astounding. The amount of condescending bull you squeezed into just a few sentences blew my mind.

You think Black Templar players are upset because some specific BT build might be invalidated? And you think if it happens it's their own fault because they went "over the top" with a list that required "one character" to make it function? Dude, try invalidation of their entire army, from all their special traits right down to their basic weapons loadout on their standard marines. And their only fault was buying a codex they liked and believing GW when they said they weren't Squatting any more armies (they might not truly be Squatted, but depending on how the rules shake up it could be close enough for some people).


We've heard rumors that supplements will be somewhat more involved than Iyanden going forward.

So hypothetically speaking, let's say they have their chapter trait in the SM codex (Crusader?). Then in the supplement are the rules for the Emperor's Champ (with a vow system that you get if you take the Champ) and a Crusader Squad Troops choice with CCW options and the ability to attach Scout squads in some way.

Would that really be a travesty for BT players? Certainly it forces them to buy two codicies, which isn't ideal. But doesn't something like what I outlined (obviously roughly) cover the most important bases?

Here's another wild speculation. What if the new Tac Squad (box and rules) has options for CCWs? Then they wouldn't even need Crusader Squad rules in the supplement, and GW wouldn't need to to add another box for BTs. Probably won't happen, but it'd make some sense.


Right. And next year Puppies and Team Edward get their own books.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 01:44:33


Post by: BryllCream


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Kingsley wrote:
Dire Avengers being five to a box at least make sense in that almost everyone takes them in five-man units...


So doubling their price "made sense"?

He never said that doubling their price made sense, he said making them five-man units made sense.

Another strawman from HBMC.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 01:48:10


Post by: H.B.M.C.


I never claimed he said that. I asked him a question, hence the "?" at the end of my sentence.

Lern 2 reed.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 01:52:03


Post by: Ouze


I see yet another thread has degenerated into The Bryllcream Show.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 01:53:16


Post by: H.B.M.C.


The Blue Knight does have a unique way of altering the world around him.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 01:53:33


Post by: Azreal13


 Ouze wrote:
I see yet another thread has degenerated into The Bryllcream Show.


Can we get together and pay to send him on a course to learn to respond to what's written rather than what he reads?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 01:54:43


Post by: BryllCream


I can 2 reed. I can 2 reed very well.

The crux of your question, the variable thats nature you were seeking to clarify, was whether or not the poster you were quoting "made sense". You even specifically quoted the words "made sense", to emphasise that your query was relating to the notion that those words represented.

Since this variable that you were questioning, whether or not a doubling in price made sense, did not exist in the original post (as he explicitly stated halving the box made sense, and nothing else), you were questioning a notion that was never expressed - what you would call a "strawman".


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 01:57:12


Post by: H.B.M.C.


I guess we now know what it's like to live a life free of irony.

Or, at the very least, one that's unaware of it...


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 01:59:00


Post by: ace101


Does anyone have rumors about how Chapter tactics work with generic characters? Will it be similar to the 4th edition ones or predefined like 5th? I'm very interested, as to the replicability of Blood Ravens, BLUUD REHVENS!!!


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 02:18:20


Post by: Achaylus72


Well i can remeber being able to purchase a box of 20 Imperial Guard Cadian Shock Troops for $50.00AuD, then GW split the box up and then we got 10 Imperial Guard Cadian Shock Troops for $36.00, yes from $2.50 per model to $3.60 per model overnight, so just using a calculator that was an overnight increase of 44% in one night.

LoTR players had to cop from GW when they halved their 24 figure boxed sets at $41.00 (about $1.70 per model) to 12 figure boxed sets to $36.00 ($3.00 per model), that is an increase of 76.5% per model overnight.

But that happens

Either you cop it or find another hobby to occupy your time with.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 02:24:56


Post by: frozenwastes


I think there's room for a price increase on Tacticals just because they are the most popular. When demand for something is high, it can support a higher price.

Do I think it'll be cut down to a 5 man box? Probably not. The new paradigm seems to be 10 figure troop boxes and 5 figure elite boxes, with prices normalizing towards Australian levels.

So new sprue with new special weapons, 10 in a box, £30. That's my prediction based on previous releases.

I don't think orks and guard indicate a trend of halving model count for 40k, but in normalizing troop choices at 10 in a box.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 02:31:17


Post by: MandalorynOranj


 frozenwastes wrote:
The new paradigm seems to be 10 figure troop boxes and 5 figure elite boxes, with prices normalizing towards Australian levels.

Dire Avengers. Troops, 5 to a box. Necron Immortals. Troops, 5 to a box. PAGK. Troops, 5 to a box. Chaos Cultists. Troops, 5 to a box unless you're getting them from Dark Vengeance. SM Scouts. Troops, 5 to a box.

Although for the sake of transparency, Immortals and PAGK can both be built as other non-troop units.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 02:57:02


Post by: BryllCream


 MandalorynOranj wrote:
 frozenwastes wrote:
The new paradigm seems to be 10 figure troop boxes and 5 figure elite boxes, with prices normalizing towards Australian levels.

Dire Avengers. Troops, 5 to a box. Necron Immortals. Troops, 5 to a box. PAGK. Troops, 5 to a box. Chaos Cultists. Troops, 5 to a box unless you're getting them from Dark Vengeance. SM Scouts. Troops, 5 to a box.

Although for the sake of transparency, Immortals and PAGK can both be built as other non-troop units.

None of those are the "bread and butter" troops though. Eldar Guardians, Necron Warriors, Chaos marines and fire warriors are all 10 to a box.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 03:00:19


Post by: MajorWesJanson


 gorgon wrote:
 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:
I've been keeping my mouth shut all thread, but the ignorance on display here is astounding. The amount of condescending bull you squeezed into just a few sentences blew my mind.

You think Black Templar players are upset because some specific BT build might be invalidated? And you think if it happens it's their own fault because they went "over the top" with a list that required "one character" to make it function? Dude, try invalidation of their entire army, from all their special traits right down to their basic weapons loadout on their standard marines. And their only fault was buying a codex they liked and believing GW when they said they weren't Squatting any more armies (they might not truly be Squatted, but depending on how the rules shake up it could be close enough for some people).


We've heard rumors that supplements will be somewhat more involved than Iyanden going forward.

So hypothetically speaking, let's say they have their chapter trait in the SM codex (Crusader?). Then in the supplement are the rules for the Emperor's Champ (with a vow system that you get if you take the Champ) and a Crusader Squad Troops choice with CCW options and the ability to attach Scout squads in some way.

Would that really be a travesty for BT players? Certainly it forces them to buy two codicies, which isn't ideal. But doesn't something like what I outlined (obviously roughly) cover the most important bases?

Here's another wild speculation. What if the new Tac Squad (box and rules) has options for CCWs? Then they wouldn't even need Crusader Squad rules in the supplement, and GW wouldn't need to to add another box for BTs. Probably won't happen, but it'd make some sense.


I imagine it would work easier the other way around- put Helbrecht, Grimaldus, and the Emperor's Champ in the SM codex. Give Helbrecht Righteous Zeal as the chapter/warlord trait. Make Vows a buff bubble on the Emperor's Champion like how Tau Ethereals work now. Let Tac squads swap bolters for ccws. Have the supplement cover the proper crusader squads (tac troops plus carapace armored troops, Land Raider Crusader transport option, Relic Wargear like Holy Hand Grenade and Cenobyte servitors.

On Tactical squads, I would guess 10 marines (as 10 is a tactical squad, while 5 has been noted as a combat squad for years now) for £27-30 pounds as either a single 3 frame sprue or more likely for tac marine, a 2 frame sprue doubled in the box (so they can split it into 5 man units for things like battleforces as needed) like the Space Wolf pack. Then a 5 man Sternguard/Vanguard as a single 3 frame sprue kit for £20-23 like the Death Company kit.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 03:20:14


Post by: -Loki-


Army Invalidation is only a thing if you're a competitive tournament player. if you're more casual, as long as nothing is outright removed (which i do admit happens sometimes), then army invalidation on edition change isn't really a thing.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 03:23:22


Post by: sparkywtf


I too can build an army around tac squads, assault squads, rhinos, and dreadnaughts.

Rolling BT in with SM isn't going to invalidate the models. It invalidates a style of army completely that makes said army fun. It isn't your list being invalidated because you went heavy for one options, its the entire style you love being invalidated.

It would be like... making space wolves shave their beards. Sure the armor looks the same, but there just isn't any soul left.

Also, reducing the product line (even by rolling it in), is not a good business model. If GW were smart, they would keep the BT separate. They already have plastic bits for BT and they require the purchase of the main box to use. For the price of them to publish a codex they get more sales than squatting the army.

Also I wouldn't say they are run by smart people. Maybe lucky people, but not smart.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 03:38:17


Post by: dienekes96


Sweet, another thread committed to discussing price and personality quirks.



Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 03:42:04


Post by: Jehan-reznor


I can understand when people throw a fit when a they change the whole rare/special squads make up after every edition.
Especcially for players who rely on certain special units. I play always tactical heavy armies, so it doesn't affect me much.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 03:42:56


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 -Loki- wrote:
Army Invalidation is only a thing if you're a competitive tournament player. if you're more casual, as long as nothing is outright removed (which i do admit happens sometimes), then army invalidation on edition change isn't really a thing.


My Lost & The Damned and non-GK Inquisitorial armies would like to object!


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 03:43:33


Post by: DustGod


 -Loki- wrote:
Army Invalidation is only a thing if you're a competitive tournament player. if you're more casual, as long as nothing is outright removed (which i do admit happens sometimes), then army invalidation on edition change isn't really a thing.

exactly right! I quit worrying about Armies and just started build highly converted units for fun

Look I have 3 units of Sternguard all with Custom Melta combis took a 100 dollars worth (by old Bits sales prices) of meltas just to get the formula Right to build these things… and they look super sweet.

I have over 40 Combi weapons model and another 20 in bags.
IF my sternguard become obsolete… I knew what I was doing when I made them and I built them for fun.

Cool part is I just collect bits I got the parts to make over 300 marines… so when the game flips I just buy a box for bits, bare heads and different helms.

I’m excited to see what new bits come in the sternguard/tactical squad box. My bet is 5 man units with enough bit to build tactical/sternguard or assault/vanguard… think it over.

sparkywtf wrote:
I too can build an army around tac squads, assault squads, rhinos, and dreadnaughts.

Rolling BT in with SM isn't going to invalidate the models. It invalidates a style of army completely that makes said army fun. It isn't your list being invalidated because you went heavy for one options, its the entire style you love being invalidated.

It would be like... making space wolves shave their beards. Sure the armor looks the same, but there just isn't any soul left.

Also, reducing the product line (even by rolling it in), is not a good business model. If GW were smart, they would keep the BT separate. They already have plastic bits for BT and they require the purchase of the main box to use. For the price of them to publish a codex they get more sales than squatting the army.

Also I wouldn't say they are run by smart people. Maybe lucky people, but not smart.

You want CC monster zealots in a BT army? run it using Ba codex, With Wolves as Allies. A codex is just a set of rules to play by… now with allies the Skys the Limit. Stop crying. Soul???? Man make a DIY chapter and your own fluff and soul.

@Ironwill13791
Yeah they looked really cool. thanks for the exalt Playboy!


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 04:04:43


Post by: Deathclad


Does anyone know if these Supplemental Codexes will have specific unique HQs included with them or will all of the unique Characters rule be available in the starter C:SM?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 04:27:23


Post by: frozenwastes


 MandalorynOranj wrote:
 frozenwastes wrote:
The new paradigm seems to be 10 figure troop boxes and 5 figure elite boxes, with prices normalizing towards Australian levels.

Dire Avengers. Troops, 5 to a box. Necron Immortals. Troops, 5 to a box. PAGK. Troops, 5 to a box. Chaos Cultists. Troops, 5 to a box unless you're getting them from Dark Vengeance. SM Scouts. Troops, 5 to a box.

Although for the sake of transparency, Immortals and PAGK can both be built as other non-troop units.


I stand corrected.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 04:40:07


Post by: Achaylus72


Yippee, i am looking forward to this, i can put together my Son's of Achaylus Space Marine Army, this Space Marine Army will my army before the Sons of Achaylus turned to Chaos and to become the Bonecrushers of Achaylus..

But it seems that i am going to get severely wallet whacked, but you hafta cop it, oh i love plastic crack.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 04:45:34


Post by: DustGod


 timetowaste85 wrote:
Well, that post hurt my brain. It would be a lot easier to take your post seriously if you wrote something semi-normal, instead of Jersey-Shore style jibberish. I assume you're telling us we're all idiots for not "getting" GWs strategy as GW is "run by smart people." There's a difference between invalidating playstyle (which GW does) by shaking up the meta, and completely obliterating full armies. This is what us BT players are concerned about-not having to buy extra stuff because some things don't work as well as they used to, but rather that our entire army will be nothing more than a different, pretty scheme. But seriously...adjust your post. Make it look semi-grown up. Excuse me while I go scrub this tumor off of my brain.

First Stop letting my post do damage. It is all normal and it’s nothing like the Jersey Style lingo.
I’m not talking to “All Of You” I’m talking to people that do not grasp the Business model of GW.
Black Templars ARE NOT a big seller so they won’t waste time…
But it’s more about the way they do things and the way your SOoooo Surprized when you're not even on the radar much less in the line for your set of rules.
Or
When Someone is shocked that you can no longer use this tank or this unit and you bought 3000 points of that one sided thing.
I could build a sweet list with Allies say BA and GK and make it rock as BT… but that’s me… sorry you have no slang words and can’t communicate without it being in essay form. I bet you’re the life of the party…

sorry YOUR army is involved, get in line with the next tyranid codex when there’s no Zilla army build and some guys has all Zilla,

The point is if you don’t know how GW does it… you loose.

Either:
A. find a new army and retire the old one
B. Use a Valid Codex to make the current models you own Work
C. Play What edition your force belongs in

But for god sake either enjoy the Hobby you have chosen or pack in in Pal!
Snoochies .


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 04:48:15


Post by: Wilytank


 frozenwastes wrote:
 MandalorynOranj wrote:
 frozenwastes wrote:
The new paradigm seems to be 10 figure troop boxes and 5 figure elite boxes, with prices normalizing towards Australian levels.

Dire Avengers. Troops, 5 to a box. Necron Immortals. Troops, 5 to a box. PAGK. Troops, 5 to a box. Chaos Cultists. Troops, 5 to a box unless you're getting them from Dark Vengeance. SM Scouts. Troops, 5 to a box.

Although for the sake of transparency, Immortals and PAGK can both be built as other non-troop units.


I stand corrected.


Also, to be fair, 5 cultists are only ten USD as opposed to thirty-five.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 05:39:41


Post by: frozenwastes


As Bryl pointed out though, each of those armies has a 10 figure troop box. I just don't see them cutting this one down to five. Of the armies with plastic troops, only Grey Knights is missing a 10 figure troop box.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 06:18:36


Post by: DiabolicAl


Tactical squads wont go to 5 for £20 for one very simple reason, 5 men is a combat squad.

I can totally see £30 Tactical Squads and £20 5 man Plastic Veteran dual kits though.

Cant wait to see what the new toys all look like


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 09:01:14


Post by: TheDraconicLord


Space Marines aren't my main army, but I will gladly bite the bullet for a Ltd Edition codex if there's a Salamanders one


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 09:29:24


Post by: unmercifulconker


Are BT really that unpopular? I seem to find a lot of people who love them.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 09:29:33


Post by: Agamemnon2


 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Not sure of the point here? Nothing you said actually disproved Calgars statement. It just looks like you wanted to waste twenty minutes of your life typing an essay outlining how much time you spend with your toys.

As someone who actually knows how to write one, calling that an essay is borderline insulting.
 unmercifulconker wrote:
Are BT really that unpopular? I seem to find a lot of people who love them.

If you look on the Internet, you can find anything you imagine. Yes, even that.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 09:43:38


Post by: AlmightyWalrus


 5deadly wrote:

First Stop letting my post do damage. It is all normal and it’s nothing like the Jersey Style lingo.


 5deadly wrote:
sorry you have no slang words and can’t communicate without it being in essay form. I bet you’re the life of the party…



Excessive spacing and ad hominem attacks... I don't mean to be an ass (which I probably will be anyway), but you really do need to work on your communication.

That said, going on about how foolish it is for Black Templars players to use their only Troops choice is rather... silly, shall we say?


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 09:50:29


Post by: Ouze


 Agamemnon2 wrote:
 unmercifulconker wrote:
Are BT really that unpopular? I seem to find a lot of people who love them.

If you look on the Internet, you can find anything you imagine. Yes, even that.


Truly inexplicable, if you ask me. I'm not really a marine player but BT seem ideal. They have all the cool toys and some unique bits, they have as interesting a backstory as it's possible for marines to have, and FFS they're the easiest chapter to paint if you're not much of a painter - you can just prime them black, drybrush grey, and paint the eyes. They're the penultimate starter marine army IMO.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 10:05:23


Post by: Breotan


Yes, Ouze, some people like BT. I'm guessing not enough buy BT to make it worth GW's time and effort.



Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 10:10:04


Post by: AlmightyWalrus


 Ouze wrote:
 Agamemnon2 wrote:
 unmercifulconker wrote:
Are BT really that unpopular? I seem to find a lot of people who love them.

If you look on the Internet, you can find anything you imagine. Yes, even that.


Truly inexplicable, if you ask me. I'm not really a marine player but BT seem ideal. They have all the cool toys and some unique bits, they have as interesting a backstory as it's possible for marines to have, and FFS they're the easiest chapter to paint if you're not much of a painter - you can just prime them black, drybrush grey, and paint the eyes. They're the penultimate starter marine army IMO.


Black and white looks like an easy colour scheme; it's not. The fact that it's much harder to use washes on black (in my experience, at least) also means that you can't use the wash short-cut. My Imperial Guard, for example, are much easier to paint to an acceptable standard than my Templars.

As for the "cool toys", Templars do miss out on a lot of stuff. I'm not trying to be a negative Nancy or anything here, but I probably am anyway.

 Breotan wrote:
Yes, Ouze, some people like BT. I'm guessing not enough buy BT to make it worth GW's time and effort.



Whether that's due to the ancient rules, Sisters of Battle-level prices for Troops or something else is something we don't know though.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 10:36:30


Post by: unmercifulconker


 Agamemnon2 wrote:
 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Not sure of the point here? Nothing you said actually disproved Calgars statement. It just looks like you wanted to waste twenty minutes of your life typing an essay outlining how much time you spend with your toys.

As someone who actually knows how to write one, calling that an essay is borderline insulting.
 unmercifulconker wrote:
Are BT really that unpopular? I seem to find a lot of people who love them.

If you look on the Internet, you can find anything you imagine. Yes, even that.


What is this internet you speak of?

I would hardly call BT the worst selling product of GW though which some posters seem to indicate.

But what am I saying, of course they are the worse selling product, why else would/might they produce a limited edition cover on the codex for BT players.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 10:42:59


Post by: His Master's Voice


 Breotan wrote:
Yes, Ouze, some people like BT. I'm guessing not enough buy BT to make it worth GW's time and effort.



That's only because GW chose not to sell BT by making their first actual codex pants. Since the army didn't have an established cult following comparable to other SM chapters back then, they got dropped like a hot potato in favour of better MEQ lists.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 11:04:14


Post by: Fezman


Does anyone else think the grav weapons sound a bit gimmicky rather than good? A gun that makes Terminators as fragile as a breadstick but turns Ork Boyz and Guardsmen into powerhouses...far too situational when we already have low-AP, high-STR gear. I just can't see, unless they have some ridiculous new traits yet to be revealed, why I'd choose them over plasma or melta.

My guess is that Tactical Squads will stay as a 10 man kit. The question is how they will incorporate the grav weapons. I would guess they'll simply slightly extend the special/command sprue in the tactical box to include a grav gun and a grav pistol (so expect a price rise if they do?). As for discerning between which are the older tactical boxes and which are then new "grav" type, I would expect to see them change the box art Eldar-style.

Regarding dual kits, I just looked at the Hunter on Lexicanum and that leads me to think the other AA tank will be a Rhino variant, so a dual kit seems likely to me.

The new unit I'm most interested in is the shooty version of the "mini-dreadnought." If I had to guess what rules they would have, well, ATSKNF etc obviously, but I'm guessing 2+ save, Relentless, probably T5 or W2 and perhaps the ability to fire two weapons.


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 11:37:22


Post by: tvih


 5deadly wrote:

You want CC monster zealots in a BT army? run it using Ba codex

I actually considered this at one point, because in terms of tabletop efficiency it's a good path to take currently, and can still have a lot of the BT flavor with some optional Codex and BA-specific stuff thrown in the mix.
- BP+CCW troops via either assault marines or Death Company. The latter could be used to represent a "Marshal's household" army where the Sword Brethren use Death Company rules. BT players have difficulty using their PA SB models because they're not great and the elite slots are better used for termies, but using the SB models as powerful DC in a troop slot? Nice. Only problem is the twin lightning claw model, since for some reason DC doesn't get claws. Could be used as a Vanguard veteran, though.
- Red Thirst works great for Templars - just think of it as a sort of "Unbound Zeal" type of thing - some squads going above and beyond in zeal
- Like BT, you can get Land Raiders as dedicated transports - Redeemer would be so nice compared to the somewhat lackluster (at least against other MEq) LRC in terms of actually doing damage instead of just transporting!
- Basically all the BT-specific kits can be represented by the BA codex, with WYSIWYG gear. The EC is sort of the odd man out - but technically I guess he could just blend in as a sergeant or even as a basic captain.

You don't have the EC special rules or neophytes mixed with initiates, but other than that it can work wonderfully and be more versatile than an actual BT list. But personally in the end I opted out of doing this. Didn't want to buy the BA Codex and while I could memorize the relevant rules without owning it, it just felt like a cop-out in the end. But that's more inside my own head kind of thing rather than an actual problem. Still, it was tempting in any case, since it would've allowed me to use Sternguard and Vanguard in my lists too, and I like those units/models. Not to mention assault marines as troops, yummy! Nobody ever uses assault marines, but I still like them a lot. Just very rarely use them with the BT codex because other units tend to eat up the Fast Attack slots, especially now with Storm Talons in the mix.

But funnily enough, if BT do get rolled/turned into a C:SM supplement, in many ways that path will probably lead to similar list possibilities as using the BA codex would. No Death Company for CC awesomeness, but otherwise.

Overall I hoped BT would get a separate Codex again, but if we get rolled, as long as the supplement retains the BT flavor of things I don't mind that much. I need SM codex too, in any case.

As for how much BT sells? Hard to say on the casual crowd, but they certainly do have a cult following. One only needs to look at the B&C ETL challenges and compare their points to other chapters


Codex: Space Marines [First post updated 27-08-2013 - Leaked White Dwarf images added] @ 2013/08/05 11:37:38


Post by: Traceoftoxin


 ace101 wrote:
Does anyone have rumors about how Chapter tactics work with generic characters? Will it be similar to the 4th edition ones or predefined like 5th? I'm very interested, as to the replicability of Blood Ravens, BLUUD REHVENS!!!


You want lots of librarians and to steal things from other chapters?