The problem is, has been the lack of honesty. They need to seriously look at all the events that have lead to this situation. That have caused their backers to be less than happy, like their feelings. They should have been more forthcoming on the reality of the delays. I'm not even sure they intended to deceive or if they were just passing along their own hopes rather than realistic completion dates. It would have been much better to be open, rather than give us a guess. They could have given us project updates, real ones, as things were completed, maybe even showing pictures. Pictures that excited, not extremely disappointed and disillusioned backers, but excited fans. People that would have spread the news, increased the fan base and ultimately made them quite successful. Sigh.
Oh, and whoever threatened their employee, is a douche.
Dakka is the biggest and most active forum of its type.
For the most part, it also has the lightest touch from a Moderation perspective too. (I'm not kidding!)
There's very little 'clamp down' here - so it is what it is.
I think most users prefer it that way.
There are definitely vocal people in Dakka but it honestly isn't meant to be malicious, for the most part, people are just passionate. Even those who I've had 'strong' disagreements with, we don't hold grudges against each other and at the end of the day will sit down and play games, drink with each other. Since there is a light amount of Moderation, there is definitely a greater amount of discussions that can get heated though. The trick is to not take it personally. Even in the Palladium/AvP threads where accusations are thrown around, it is because despite given 'reasons' don't necessarily feel like they fully answer questions/issues. There are many reasons for that but ultimately it leads to speculation which people will naturally twist words... welcome to the internet.
Grumpae wrote: I'm not even sure they intended to deceive or if they were just passing along their own hopes rather than realistic completion dates. It would have been much better to be open, rather than give us a guess.
Oh, and whoever threatened their employee, is a douche.
Like most things it was probably a combination of both. Every company will like to spin a positive side on things, that is part of PR. There probably were some good intentions they planned to keep, but things get sidetracked or there are delays. One delay in one area, causes delays in other areas and it is an avalanche unfortunately. I think the main issue is they are trying to reach out to people as people, which on a smaller scale for smaller KS that works out great. For larger ones not so much as everyone is rabid and just wants their stuff, it tends to meld into a mob more than individual people as they all get lost in the mass. Sticking to facts and numbers, post total numbers for the whole project, then post how many has shipped and how many is outstanding along with regional locations (use percentages if you don't want exact numbers), when you ship, post how much, did it go by boat, plane and when delayed post about it immediately. At this late in the game, don't try to be personable, let that be handled by customer service behind the scenes and just trudge through the mess. Then once finally done, you can go back and post what was learned, plans to prevent it from the future, lessons, etc.
I don't think lateness was ever the primary issue. Instead deception and poor comms (when there were comms) were the main issues. Broken promises on things like KS exclusivity sure as gak didn't help either.
I love that they list Dakka as the cesspit just after mentioning Frothers with no slagging
That would be Frothers whose FAQ (which is one of the best I've seen) includes:
Help, someone said some rude words!
Someone said poo again, in a public forum? Dash it all to high heaven. Seriously, FU!UK is a place for everyone to kick back and relax, away from the heavy moderation and careful diplomacy of some other, more “professional” websites. Say what you feel, rant, rave and abuse each other because the moderators here will assume you are all grown up enough that you don’t need protecting from rude words (and frankly don’t give a feth in any case). If you take serious offence at a post someone has made, it may be that the moderator will need to step in and take charge... or it may be that you need to take a step back and lighten up a bit. This might not suit everyone but there you are. In general, if you don’t like what someone has said to you then you can either ignore them, or call them a witch. Either works.
(obviously it doesn't say feth and witch in the actual one)
While there has been a good bit of rage towards Prodos on here, most of it has been pretty justified! Though nobody went as far as going completely nuts.
However, the vast majority of Kickstarters I've backed (about 14 or so) have all been delivered in a fairly timely manner (ie on, or just outside of their estimated delivery) with exception to AvP and Creature Caster.
Threatening people is so low, I advise the moles to take cover.
And at least I can say, like Jack said, it was never about the delays.
For an example of a KS that didn't run so smooth: T5.
Delivery was expected May 14. Anybody angry there? No.
Because the creator is giving out an update ever month, roughly the same time. He has informed his backers, what the delays where (two man company, laser breaking down, wife can't work due to injury) but he's shuffeling along.
Nobody's on his back. He even answers to commentsno later than two days. He dropped the ball and picked it up again.
Prodos on the other hand dropped it, kicked it towards their own goal and then wandered off the field, wondering why people are booing.
Prodos, guys, chumps, it's fine to feel angry and frustrated as how things are.
But that is a stew you yourselves brewed. It's not right to pass your blame, just because you can't handle it or it doesn't fit with the way you view yourselves.
Only in Kindergarden (and mybe the first two years of elementary schol) it's fine to sit in a corner and cry because of the mean kids, who you stole the lunch money from first. After that you are expected to deal with it.
After reading that last update and seeing Dakka referred to as a cesspool of hate, I felt I had to stop by and counter it with a heart-felt thank you.
I'm not a kickstarter backer, but rather one of those underhanded types that signed on when Prodos re-opened the pledge manager over 12 months ago. As a 'late-backer' I don't get any of the kickstarter updates and wasn't even aware of the facebook group until recently. As Prodos have yet to reply to any of my emails, searching the internet for information has been my only option and Dakka was one of the first sources I found.
I didn't know about Dakka until AvP, and while some posts have certainly been passionate, I don't think anything in this thread has been abusive, or untruthful. If Prodos don't want people using third party sites to gain information, then they should do a better job of communicating with their customers.
So, as one of the silent minority still awaiting my order, I wanted to stop by and thank you all for collating and posting all of the information you have so far.
After reading that last update and seeing Dakka referred to as a cesspool of hate, I felt I had to stop by and counter it with a heart-felt thank you.
I'm not a kickstarter backer, but rather one of those underhanded types that signed on when Prodos re-opened the pledge manager over 12 months ago. As a 'late-backer' I don't get any of the kickstarter updates and wasn't even aware of the facebook group until recently. As Prodos have yet to reply to any of my emails, searching the internet for information has been my only option and Dakka was one of the first sources I found.
I didn't know about Dakka until AvP, and while some posts have certainly been passionate, I don't think anything in this thread has been abusive, or untruthful. If Prodos don't want people using third party sites to gain information, then they should do a better job of communicating with their customers.
So, as one of the silent minority still awaiting my order, I wanted to stop by and thank you all for collating and posting all of the information you have so far.
Thanks.
Well, that's ultimately what we're here for - sharing information about the hobby we all love!
Thanks for the kinds words, and welcome to Dakka Dakka!
After reading that last update and seeing Dakka referred to as a cesspool of hate, I felt I had to stop by and counter it with a heart-felt thank you.
I'm not a kickstarter backer, but rather one of those underhanded types that signed on when Prodos re-opened the pledge manager over 12 months ago. As a 'late-backer' I don't get any of the kickstarter updates and wasn't even aware of the facebook group until recently. As Prodos have yet to reply to any of my emails, searching the internet for information has been my only option and Dakka was one of the first sources I found.
I didn't know about Dakka until AvP, and while some posts have certainly been passionate, I don't think anything in this thread has been abusive, or untruthful. If Prodos don't want people using third party sites to gain information, then they should do a better job of communicating with their customers.
So, as one of the silent minority still awaiting my order, I wanted to stop by and thank you all for collating and posting all of the information you have so far.
Thanks.
Just gotta say, you are hardly in the minority. Those that are speaking up are very few of us. Most I think are just waiting with baited breath for the other shoe to drop. If we didn't have money invested in this, it would probably be quite comical watching all of this unfold. The truth, they say is stranger than fiction.
I only know about the game from this forum. So it's all your fault.
I got to see much more information about the game here than anywhere else, and share in the enthusiasm for it. I got "lucky" that the pledges were then reopened.
As a result, I get all of my information (and a lot of useful context) about the game here and no communication at all from the company that received my money.
"Every action has a reaction, and all that." is exactly right. I can only hope that they have a long look at themselves, as their actions have resulted in the vast majority of the bad reactions relating to the project that I've seen.
I can't say I've much sympathy for nearly all of that communication. Others have already touched on how to communicate delays effectively to continued support. It would seem that basic honesty plays a fairly large role in that happening.
"most companies would have given up by now" was particularly irritating.
Perhaps stopping after "We have established that it's quite clear, nothing is enough, unless we actually get your product shipped." would have been better. I don't recall wanting anything *other* than the product being shipped.
Some people can only be happy, as long as they are either victorous or the poor vitctims. They know, they can't be the victors anymore, so they try to play the victim card.
Moses Bad wrote: Some people can only be happy, as long as they are either victorous or the poor vitctims. They know, they can't be the victors anymore, so they try to play the victim card.
There is a diagnosis for that, its called boarderline personality disorder.
Well, there are two places, where you can find guys, who happily crawl up Prodos' rear - BGG (look at the threat and you know who I'm talking about) and the same guy in their own forums.
Aww, as long as one guy is happy ... who cares about the cesspool, right?
Oh, right, that guy wasn't a backer, he was an online shop customer.
yeah,
I went on face book and told them I didn't like that comment.
yeah,
"... Dakka Dakka, that well-known cesspit of vitriol and hate! "
So is this what Prodos believe?
Why did you advertise the KS on Dakka if you dislike us?
As a user of Dakka Dakka I take this as a very personal insult.
I saw the Prodos AVP campaign on Dakka and pledged a lot of money on the KS due to the support/Buzz Dakka Dakka generated for Prodos.
And now you feel you can withhold my product from me and insult me.
If this is what you think of me I’d like to have my money back.
There's a (not very friendly) saying here in Germany: Kaum gestolen, schon in Polen. Hardly stolen, already in Poland.
Prejudice as this is, it applies to Prodos, having their main base in Poland now. OK, I still think we'll get the stuff someday (not to use the word soon), but until then ... naw, going all cesspool again. Just remember, we owe Prodos a lot of thanks for giving us this awesome game (soon) and we should build shrines and worship them.
This is Rumor Control and these are the Facts for Friday September 11, 2015
We have launched the Prodos Games Blog and will be posting these same updates every Friday there as well as emailing them directly to you. http://blog.prodosgames.com/
This week we have shipped 350 parcels to backers from the UK, Europe and the rest of the world. The KS backer boxes shown in the video will be shipped next week. Of course, the American continent is not included, as those are en-route to Ninja Division, or already with them. We are hoping for a similar level of shipping next week for Kickstarter.
The US shipment to Golden Distribution and the Spanish shipment to Miniaturama shown in the Video are retail copies, not the Backer versions that all Kickstarter pledgers (and post-KS pledgers) will be receiving. Golden Distribution have been waiting for these for quite some time and we are shipping them so that they are ready for their end of month release date.
Ninja Division have agreed to start shipping the pledges next week. Please be aware that this was a request made by Prodos Games so that we can at least get most of the USA shipment sorted out quickly. The rest will hit USA shores in 2-3 weeks, keeping in mind that there will be customs clearance after that.
spiel 2015
Essen Spiel is coming up (October 8th-11th), we can see some of you are already asking about how to pick up your copies from the show. We’re hoping to let you know in the next few days. For now, our suggestion is to bring out a printed version of your pledge manager to the show and we will hand over a copy of the game. We will have English and German available on site. Our stand is 2-E175, so please do not hesitate to come and say hello (or hallo/guten tag!)!
Please don’t be a stranger to the blog, feel free to comment, feel free to share with your friends and keep an eye out on the news we will regularly be posting about our little company.
We’re also still going under major reconstructive work to our website, as currently, it’s not exactly user friendly. We’re also still working on our web presence, so please bear with us.
So to improve its image within the industry, Dakka's community needs to post thousands of borderline porn pics and links to pirated files? That is a very dysfunctional industry.
That would save me a lot of navigation time... it is so convenient to have everything in one place!
Todosi wrote: Wait, now there IS a difference between the retatil and KS versions? I thought retail was getting the same thing we were? When did that change?
Had they made that a point in their communications it might have consoled some of the backers.
The later retail version, IIKR.
The version now, same as KS backers.
The version to come, still resin minis, but less tiles.
They did mention trying to use thinner cardboard and a couple less sheets of tiles for a 'new' retail version, but they still will include the KS Exclusive resin figures. Frankly when they said it it seemed a frantic attempt to lessen their cost per unit rather than an attempt to make good on the KS promises.
Did they actually say thinner, or just less. I can't remember them saying it was thinner board? I just remember them saying they were taking out a few sheets of tiles. Not of course that I have any plans what-so-ever to buy a retail copy.
Maybe they got too many complaints of misspacked cards so they band them together now? Pure speculation but as good as any.
Thinner board ... bad choice. That thing is supposed to be clipped together on and on, that won't last ...
Those new tiles look terrible, good luck keeping them flat! Unbelievable. What they need to do is go with the exact opposite of their gut instincts. How is lowering the quality, a good move?
Todosi wrote: Wait, now there IS a difference between the retatil and KS versions? I thought retail was getting the same thing we were? When did that change?
Had they made that a point in their communications it might have consoled some of the backers.
The announcement was made August 14, was posted on Facebook as well as this thread. I had thought I got an email too but I can't remember, I know I got a couple emails but didn't really pay attention to them. Based on what I've seen discussed a lot of people thought it was possibly happening and not happening so there was some shock in changes happening suddenly.
Ultimately I believe the decision came about not only because of increased manufacturing costs but needing to provide a retail version to sell, without negatively impacting Kickstarter backers. The increased costs meant reducing the cost of the manufacturing where they could. It looks like that meant a thinner material... not sure if that means worse quality. I line most of my boards with superglue, which makes the ends not fray and last almost indefinitely (something I learned from Battle Systems terrain KS).
Currently the retail version is supposed to be, "the retail will be different from the Kickstarter version you will be getting, the box weights less by over 1KG (different materials used) and will be smaller by 3cm (with a new layout). There will also be a reduction in the number of tiles (a few corridors will be removed plus flamer and blast template is also game- since they are not used in the core board game at all).".
That is the current retail version. Anything left out there is stranglers or has been sitting with other distributors but the stores I know have all been getting the new retail version.
xowainx wrote: Are backers who haven't received their copy yet going to end up with the new "budget" version?
Backers will not receive the retail version, they will be receiving the fat box version.
Moses Bad wrote: Maybe they got too many complaints of misspacked cards so they band them together now? Pure speculation but as good as any.
Thinner board ... bad choice. That thing is supposed to be clipped together on and on, that won't last ...
The card stock for the counters & doors are thinner, but floor tiles are thick like origianlly shown.
Mhkay ... thinner doors should work - keep them in those stands and they should be allright.
Counters, only time will tell, but those are handled again and again. A lot of companies offer plastic tokens, makes me wonder, why that idea never gotten round for AvP.
Maybe, if it lasts, in the future ...
Moses Bad wrote: Counters, only time will tell, but those are handled again and again. A lot of companies offer plastic tokens, makes me wonder, why that idea never gotten round for AvP.
Plastic counters increase cost, cheaper to go board method. Not to mention it lets them later produce plastic, acrylic or 'special' counters/tokens as additional add-on sales. You can seal the counters with superglue or use a epoxy sticker to top them and protect them as well.
Most things I normally put in a bag anyways and use MDF tokens... plus I have stuff to use my cool ModCube counters for. ^_^
Moses Bad wrote: Counters, only time will tell, but those are handled again and again. A lot of companies offer plastic tokens, makes me wonder, why that idea never gotten round for AvP.
Plastic counters increase cost, cheaper to go board method. Not to mention it lets them later produce plastic, acrylic or 'special' counters/tokens as additional add-on sales. You can seal the counters with superglue or use a epoxy sticker to top them and protect them as well.
Most things I normally put in a bag anyways and use MDF tokens... plus I have stuff to use my cool ModCube counters for. ^_^
Uhm, most, if not all backers went in on those objective tokens - do you think, anybody would've complained (back then) or shyed away from the idea (back then) to spend another 15 to 20 bucks to get a set of plastic tokens? They would've taken it, guaranteed. That's why I wrote "offer", not "put in for free".
Moses Bad wrote: Uhm, most, if not all backers went in on those objective tokens - do you think, anybody would've complained (back then) or shyed away from the idea (back then) to spend another 15 to 20 bucks to get a set of plastic tokens? They would've taken it, guaranteed. That's why I wrote "offer", not "put in for free".
I didn't know you were talking about additional KS items/add-ons vs thinner stock on the retail games. Doing it as part of the KS as additional add-ons would have been good, although it was awhile ago before plasitc tokens and acrylic laser cut things started becoming almost a standard goto add-on for kickstarters. Yeah I didn't go in for objective tokens, just miniatures and main game. I used to go in for those things in KS but found I end up swapping them out for other things later anyways... but that is just me.
Moses Bad wrote: Counters, only time will tell, but those are handled again and again. A lot of companies offer plastic tokens, makes me wonder, why that idea never gotten round for AvP.
Plastic counters increase cost, cheaper to go board method. Not to mention it lets them later produce plastic, acrylic or 'special' counters/tokens as additional add-on sales. You can seal the counters with superglue or use a epoxy sticker to top them and protect them as well.
Most things I normally put in a bag anyways and use MDF tokens... plus I have stuff to use my cool ModCube counters for. ^_^
Uhm, most, if not all backers went in on those objective tokens - do you think, anybody would've complained (back then) or shyed away from the idea (back then) to spend another 15 to 20 bucks to get a set of plastic tokens? They would've taken it, guaranteed. That's why I wrote "offer", not "put in for free".
Couldn't agree more. IMHO two of the biggest missives from the original offering are plastic tokens and counters, and also textured bases (or base toppers). They could have made a shedload of money out of both. I should think Fenris have doubled their annual takings off the back of this game, and if the game succeeds, somebody like Litko is going to have a field day.
Is this game going to have any of the miniatures available outside of the big boxed set? I wouldn't mind buying some Predators to use with another game system.
TheWaspinator wrote: Is this game going to have any of the miniatures available outside of the big boxed set? I wouldn't mind buying some Predators to use with another game system.
TheWaspinator wrote: Is this game going to have any of the miniatures available outside of the big boxed set? I wouldn't mind buying some Predators to use with another game system.
I have a few hunters from Predastore (after getting bored waiting on Fox/Prodos). Great figures, not cheap but you get value. I have a hunter that reminds me of Ned Stark, a Stormtrooper, Ursula Andress and an Australian Aborigany. I will likely keep an eye out for more from Predastore.
Ninja Division Publishing is happy to announce that US shipping for fulfillment of the Alien v Predator Kickstarter has begun. Ninja Division has received approximately 180 copies to our local warehouse. Shipment of these copies is ongoing and should be complete within a week.
The remaining quantity needed to complete the fulfillment is currently on a ship heading to the US. Prodos has informed us that it is anticipated it to reach port within 2 – 3 weeks.
In agreement with Prodos Games, a third party fulfillment center will be handling the final fulfillment. The fulfillment center is located in the port city, allowing the elimination of the travel time needed to transport the product to Ninja Division’s warehouse in Idaho.
Once Ninja Division has completed fulfillment of the stock we have on hand, Prodos will coordinate with the third party fulfillment center to ensure delivery of the final items.
Ninja Division and Prodos Games would like to thank backers for their patience as fulfillment begins.
For inquiries regarding your order,
Contact: Anthony Boyd
Ninja Division Publishing
Phone: 208.286.4135
info@sodapopminiatures.com www.ninjadivision.com
In agreement with Prodos Games, a third party fulfillment center will be handling the final fulfillment.
That sounds like yes, ad could be taken two ways with the remark
The fulfillment center is located in the port city, allowing the elimination of the travel time needed to transport the product to Ninja Division’s warehouse in Idaho.
But from the tone would think NDP is thinking jump ship now rather than get caught up.
What are the odds that coordination on what has already shipped to who between ND, Prodos and the third party shipper gets fethed up?
Wow, nobody wants to deal with the shipping. First Prodos, then ND, and now some unnamed and most likely not gaming related third party. I wonder if they'll punt it next to Santa's elves in order to finish it by Christmas...
What are the odds that coordination on what has already shipped to who between ND, Prodos and the third party shipper gets fethed up?
Looks like ND decided they're not getting paid enough to take the fall for Prodos - that's why they called out the count of games in their possession, and when they are shipping, along with the go-forward plan. ND is being transparent so that disgruntled AvP backers don't blame them for what are clearly Prodos' fethups.
This is getting worse than a soap opera! Stay tuned for the next exciting update! Where we find out that Prodos would have gotten away with it if it wouldn't have been for those pesky kids and their dog!
Grumpae wrote: This is getting worse than a soap opera! Stay tuned for the next exciting update! Where we find out that Prodos would have gotten away with it if it wouldn't have been for those pesky kids and their dog!
There is something worse - we call it scripted reality (bet you got the same, but maybe with another name) - where some bad actors try to sell you a weird story as real.
Speaking of which ...
Did we just make this whole Kickstarter up or was there ever a real possibility for this to become reality?
For X-Factor, this is Jonathan Frakes.
This would be at least mildly funny ... aw, you know ...
From what money? As it seems, they have enough trouble as it is scraping together the funds for shipping.
Now did I get that right? For what I know about blogs ... They ditched the KS site, scrapped FB and largely ignore their forums in favor of a blog, where - with the right settings - you can edit (i.e. delete) unwanted posts before they go public? Wowey, if it is so and for that very reason. If you can't win them over anymore, censor them wherever and however you can?
Grumpae wrote: This is getting worse than a soap opera! Stay tuned for the next exciting update! Where we find out that Prodos would have gotten away with it if it wouldn't have been for those pesky kids and their dog!
There is something worse - we call it scripted reality (bet you got the same, but maybe with another name) - where some bad actors try to sell you a weird story as real.
Speaking of which ...
Did we just make this whole Kickstarter up or was there ever a real possibility for this to become reality?
For X-Factor, this is Jonathan Frakes.
This would be at least mildly funny ... aw, you know ...
I do not understand the context of your second quote. Please explain what I am missing. Did Frakes do a kickstarter or is that just some kind of parody?
I do not understand the context of your second quote. Please explain what I am missing. Did Frakes do a kickstarter or is that just some kind of parody?
Ah, I see ... What's called X-Factor in Germany was called Beyond Belief: Fact or Fiction in the english realm. No wonder you didn't know what I was talking about. That was how he ended the show in the German translation, translated into english - which might not be the way he did it in english. Sometimes I just don't get those TV shmooks. Replacing one english title for another. Favorite example, though films, not TV: The Prophecy became God's Army.
Alpharius wrote: It seems as if living in a cesspit of vitriol and hate has made us strong!
Say, does that make you a lavatory attendant? Pure curiosity.
adlard.matthew wrote: Who else thinks this could have been sorted out by just thinking 'This Kickstarter will be or could be massive... No free shipping'.
Not sure I understand. I think everyone has paid shipping. No discount if you manage to collect it in person.
Moses Bad wrote: Everybody paid shipping and if you went to collect, well, you made a donation.
But - at least you then had some stuff.
The way Prodos are going currently many (possibly most) of us KS backers still have nothing but lies and empty promises to show for our KS money, with no realistic delivery date in sight - and the company that owes us the stuff looks like it might go tits up at any moment; and clearly can't be trusted given their variosu lies to date, and couldn't and shouldn't ever be trusted by pre-order or Kickstarter backers ever again.
I'm curious that seeing Kickstarter sent out a message to backers saying that the removal of the kickstarter page would not effect the project and backers would still receive their rewards, what kind of liability this opens them to?
Joyboozer wrote: I'm curious that seeing Kickstarter sent out a message to backers saying that the removal of the kickstarter page would not effect the project and backers would still receive their rewards, what kind of liability this opens them to?
Going out on a limb a bit here, but I'm pretty sure there is still no liability to Kickstarter. The onus is always on the creator, and as long as they can prove that they shipped some of them, and have now run out of money, we aren't owed anything. Yep, pretty much sucks...
Not a lawyer, but I'm sure that selling the kickstarter versions at retail instead of meeting their obligations to backers would muddy the water. It's not as if Prodos "ran out of money", Prodos just makes more money (on paper) if they delay fulfilment and sells stuff instead. I say on paper because if I had recieved a core box and been happy with it I may have been tempted to pick up a 2nd.
I'm not so worried by the core box, it exists, I just have to wait till Prodos has the grace to dispatch it. I'm more worried about Wave 2 (&3). The game may not have proved popular enough to warrent the license etc. Pure speculation there.
I'm not so worried by the core box, it exists, I just have to wait till Prodos has the grace to dispatch it. I'm more worried about Wave 2 (&3). The game may not have proved popular enough to warrent the license etc. Pure speculation there.
Erm, yes, that's exactly what has happened. Between design and production costs (including redesigning and even reproducing most if not all of the models for the core box, the countless delays during the project some of which were possibly caused by Fox being a difficult to work with multinational corporate, and some most certainly because Prodos didn't pre-plan correctly and handle Fox in a way that would work - essentially they failed to understand how such relationships operate - and then the costs incurred by them expanding their business - I seem to recall they had about 16 staff when the project started, they now have in excess of 30, at least one possibly two moves of premises (perhaps one each in UK and Poland, hard to be sure), changes to the plans from 1 wave of shipping to 2 or even 3 etc etc, running out of money is precisely what has happened. Prodos are asset rich (ish) but cash poor, and while they have a lot of other things on the go, designing and producing minis for other companies, their 3d printing service, and of course WZR to name but a few, none of these generate huge amounts of income - they keep the company ticking over, but it's a small, young and (imho) inexperienced company when it comes to the business side of things. They are good at making minis, but not so good at project planning and management, or at financial planning. and they are utterly clueless at customer relations.
So yes, they are skint. Our million dollars or so (including pledge manager additions) was spent long ago. Their failure to fully appreciate costs means they are running at a loss for every pledge they deliver, and currently they don't have the funds to ship them all, possibly don't even have the funds to complete manufacturing.
If Prodos were a patient in hospital, you'd have a crash team and a surgical team on standby, because they could go down at any minute. Sure, they may not, and we all hope they don't, but they've bitten off way more than they could chew, and it's bitten back at them big style. The end result is that they have to sell at retail to make the money needed to complete the kickstarter.
Your second point is interesting. You're intimating (whether intentionally or not) that they may not have yet secured the licence to produce the wargame, and that is the cause of at least some of the current delay. Oh how I hope you're wrong, because if that is the case, we're probably fubarred.
For those people are are adverse to being on Facebook, this was posted about an hour ago.
We are half way through the day and this is what is going out from Prodos tower, we should double that by the end of the day, also please remember to check out our blog.prodosgames.com (new post should be there today)
It might be a mix. They have the "big box" version in the pic that is supposed to be going to KS backers (and possibly some leftovers to retail) and the "slim pickings" box that they switched to for retail when the money dried up apparently.
warboss wrote: It might be a mix. They have the "big box" version in the pic that is supposed to be going to KS backers (and possibly some leftovers to retail) and the "slim pickings" box that they switched to for retail when the money dried up apparently.
Hard to tell, tbh - that black wrapping makes it a bit hard to exactly tell the size of the boxes.
They don't look like slim-boxes at all. Not to mention retailers wouldn't get them packaged up in 1s and 2s. You'd expect them to at least order half a case if not a full case.
there's a few boxes (back of the second pic, back right and a few dead centre of the first, that are clearly not AvP KS boxsets, either being obviously slimline or in some cases probably not AvP at all - this is probably the sum of stuff leaving Prodos Towers today rather than specifically just the KS.
But it does seem that there are quite a few AvP KS boxes in there if size is anything to go by. In any event, we should probably take it as intended - a quick update to show that things are still happening, maybe slower than we'd like, but definitely still happening.
If I was Prodos, I'd be looking to put out shots like this almost daily, just to show a continuous stream of stuff leaving the building. Anything that is clear evidence that this hasn't all gone to hell in a hand cart. It's become increasingly difficult to believe what we're told when faced by walls of text that often invite more questions than providing clear answers, so photographic evidence seems a more solid grounding for them right now. A good way to start to rebuild trust and goodwill.
JohnHwangDD wrote:
Is that dude playing solitaire on his desk?
he's sorting the card decks out, presumably to go into backer's boxes. I hadn't considered that they wouldn't come from the printers pre-sorted, doing that by hand for every box must be mindnumbing.
FacelessMage wrote:
Yellow?
Overalls?
I do believe Prodos is stepping up and hiring Minions.
Yup, Jarek made the same joke in facebook earlier. I wonder if they have an unlimited supply of bananas ....
I wasn't saying that there were "AVP kickstarter funds" left. Refunds were off the table ages ago. I was trying to say that Prodos still has money coming in. Their company is more diverse than just producing AVP although selling AVP must help. If Prodos runs out of money more than AVP bites the dust.
KS stuff, well you really think I would show off retail stuff going out knowing that KS are waiting for theirs? You are really forcing us to stop any updates until we fulfil the KS... really...
Also a report from someone in Germany who received their shipment from the Aug 10/11th batch that went out.
To make it short: My game arrived TODAY!!!
I'm one of the 10th/11th August guys here to bring the good news. Today I found a similar packed package in my stairway: AvP: The Hunt Begins arrived! It was delivered (to germany) via UPS. Thank you very much Prodos-Team for taking care and re-sending it. I really hope you were able to find those missing packages. So far, everything looks fine and I will check later again and work on the miniatures! smile emoticon Now I have to find the old update again about the "new" retail version, because I feel like buying it another time, but of course want the same version (maybe the german one this time!) smile emoticon I assume I will probably just buy one additional copy at Spiele Essen 2015
I wasn't saying that there were "AVP kickstarter funds" left. Refunds were off the table ages ago. I was trying to say that Prodos still has money coming in. Their company is more diverse than just producing AVP although selling AVP must help. If Prodos runs out of money more than AVP bites the dust.
I think in recent months that's been a real possibility. As I say, they are asset rich, but cash poor. Any significant drain on income (such as that caused by the issues with AvP) could quite easily have pushed them over the edge of the cliff especially as they significantly ramped up their staffing overheads and quite likely their premises costs as well. Hopefully they are past that danger now, but for sure, they teetered on the edge for a while.
KS stuff, well you really think I would show off retail stuff going out knowing that KS are waiting for theirs? You are really forcing us to stop any updates until we fulfil the KS... really...
If they had not stated they were alternating weeks for KS backers and retail/web store customers there would not have been a question. No one is 'forcing them' to stop updates, rather pleading with them for good communications and honesty. Simply labeling the picture "This stack of stuff going out today is for KS backers!'" doesn't seem like a hard fething task. Being asked the logical question when that task was not done is not a decent reason for more petulant whining and moaning.
Automatically Appended Next Post: They sure as gak have sent out stuff to web store customers and retailers even though "KS are waiting for theirs", and in fact have included those copies in the number given when asked "How many KS copies have shipped?" in an effort to appear to be further along than they actually were.
CptJake wrote: They sure as gak have sent out stuff to web store customers and retailers even though "KS are waiting for theirs"
Since the Aug 14th update, restocks and retailers have been getting the retail version. They were not shipping anymore of the 'KS' boxes anymore. Technically they also haven't shown shown pictures of retail stuff going out in pictures either, except for the one pallet (which was thin boxes) that was in the video update.
I must of missed it, when did they say they were alternating weeks of shipping?
CptJake wrote: They sure as gak have sent out stuff to web store customers and retailers even though "KS are waiting for theirs"
Since the Aug 14th update, restocks and retailers have been getting the retail version. They were not shipping anymore of the 'KS' boxes anymore. Technically they also haven't shown shown pictures of retail stuff going out in pictures either, except for the one pallet (which was thin boxes) that was in the video update.
I must of missed it, when did they say they were alternating weeks of shipping?
And before August 14th they were sending out KS copies to web store customers and retailers, and even the current 'retail' version has the KS exclusive resin figures. Basically they are trying to cut cost on the retail version, hoping to sell enough to be able to finish their KS fulfillment. And I never said anything about pictures, I said, accurately, they have misled us on numbers sent out.
I misread (or more accurately attributed 'shipping' into) their statement below:
Hey guys, I just want to update you, out of step of our, usually quite rigid, weekly updates. Make of it what you will. We have established that it's quite clear, nothing is enough, unless we actually get your product shipped. That's something we are working on. Sure it's slow, but it needs to be for it to happen and for us to stay around. This whole experience has made us decide that some things simply won't happen again. 1. Facebook One of those things, unfortunately, has to be that we simply cannot devote our time, in this way, to appearing in public portals (specifically Facebook). This doesn't mean you are not worth our time! We're aware that many want to read between the lines of our actions, comments, etc and that's whjy I'm writing in the way I am... I'm hoping the raw emotion here kind of gets through. In the grand scheme of things, we're actually a very small company. 30 or so guys, of which only 3 actually have the English skills and knowledge to present information to you is just not enough. We appreciate the support of you all and we want to make it very, very clear that we respect every single one of you; regardless of your stance as you are our pledgers, customers or even just well-wishers. Heck, even the trolls, who may spend time online just to make our lives difficult, they are still a part of the community. I've shaken hands with you guys, wherever I can at events, I've spoken about where we are, what we are feeling and what makes us tick and I take great delight in that! Sadly, some recent activity has really hit-home the reasons why this way of working, at least while we are shipping the Kickstarter, just isn't possible. We do not have a staff-member that works specifically on answering questions; in the past, we have had people that the community has known are the guys to get hold of. Firstly, Rob (myself), a 'veteran' from the Warzone Resurrection Kickstarter days (I lost a lot of hair back then!). It quickly became too much for me to handle and, as head of sales, I knew that this task just wasn't for me anymore. Every so often, I still get messages and I do deal with them, because I can and a personal, moral, part of me just wants to fix things for people. That's my character. It's been abused in the past by a number of people (to the point where people genuinely questioned my actual existence!) and that has resulted in my pulling out of this task. We then hired Michal Prodosgames, whose account was specifically made not to show his surname as he has an aversion to Facebook and being found there. Annoyingly, due to being reported by an 'unknown individual', he has had to change his account name. Then there is Jim, Jim is our USA salesman, an incredibly valuable member of our team and someone who, in the past, against all odds, has been able to remain level-headed, calm and cool in the face of Kickstarter's most awkward moments. However, this evening, he received some fairly disgusting and personal threats aimed towards him privately; which has led to our emergency writing of this update. As I am sure you are all aware, enough is enough. We want to say that this IS NOT us burying our head in the sand. We will be contactable. You can PM us on the Alien vs Predator: The Hunt Begins Like page. We will continue to visit Facebook groups, but WE WILL NOT be commenting on any of those groups. We will also continue to look at Beasts of War, we will look at the Lead Adventure forum and we will look at Frothers. Hell, maybe even Dakka Dakka, that well-known cesspit of vitriol and hate! 2. How can we contact Prodos Games then? You can email us through the usual portals of: Kickstarter Pledge Queries: Michal.Pawlaczyk@prodos.co.uk Sales/Events planning: rob.alderman@prodos.co.uk Customer Services (Replacement parts): agata.mazurek@prodos.co.uk Manufacturing: sales@prodosgames.com Alien vs Predator: The Hunt Begins Like Page Prodos Games Like Page Mutant Chronicles Like Page Our webstore Customer Service Email function We are ALWAYS happy to respond to your queries and will do everything we can to make sure you are sorted. If one of these emails is not responding according to your expectations, please do contact the like page, or simply email again. There is a very good chance that your message has been missed and then buried. This does happen, sadly; but it is very rarely intentional and quite embarrassing to see that it has occurred when it does. 3. Where will we see updates? Okay, one of the big mistakes from the start was that we have not made a database of emails from the Kickstarter and the pledges made on our website. That was rather silly of us, lesson learnt. However, the updates will be PUBLICLY available for all to see, warts and all, on our new blog on the website (http://prodosgames.com). You will be able to comment on these. However, it protects our staff from having insults hurled at them, when they are doing the best job they can, under quite dire circumstances, with very little in the way of pay off. Our whole website will be going through a transformation to be more user friendly. The blog will not just be AvP, it will be Warzone, expose some interesting stuff from the industry about manufacturing and what we actually do here. We hope for these updates to be daily. 4. Numbers of shipments: We hate to disappoint people. We're aware we do disappoint people. Our numbers are disappointingly few. Embarrassingly few. This probably comes from not being particularly 'pro' at giving information and knowing exactly what we 'should' be telling people. Every action has a reaction, and all that. Right now, we are still going with the 1 week making Retail copies, 1 week making Kickstarter copies method we mentioned. This has meant we have been able to clear out our retail orders (including a severely delayed shipment to the USA) and will clear some Kickstarter shipments during this week. Importantly, and in the minds of many pledgers on the FB Group, we have just booked in all of the shipments from the 10th and 11th of August that do not have tracking numbers provided by our Courier service. We are currently working on getting those original shipments, placed on the 10th/11th back or claiming some kind of payment back. We hope that, by the end of this week, we will also be able to claim that much more has been shipped, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. 5. Overall feeling at Prodos Games right now: Actually, we are becoming more and more aware that reaching for the stars can actually be one's downfall. We are looking at going back to roots a little, and looking for slow-expansion, rather than the rapid expansion we sort of imposed on ourselves. We have 2 truly fantastic licenses here. Mutant Chronicles, which has been a dream to work on since Kickstarter and AvP, which we are incredibly excited to develop beyond the realms of Kickstarter. We've helped a great number of companies and aim to work on strengthening those relationships. We don't want to be the company that gets passed the buck, we want to be the company that is resolute, keeps chugging on against the odds (lets face it, most companies would have given up by now, but we are sure that Rob will somehow stay alive if he keeps taking the happy pills!) and one that has formed really honest relationships with other industry stalwarts. Sure, we want plastic injection, sure we want to be the biggest company in Europe based in this commodity, but really, is that what we will really gain from it at this stage? A further delayed Kickstarter, a hell of a stressed out team here and genuinely no sleep. That's where we are now and that's not where we want to be. We honestly believe that the decisions made in this update will go a long way to helping us retain our sanity and continue (slowly) getting you the best products, service and designs that we can provide. Cheers/Na Zdrowie!
CptJake wrote: And before August 14th they were sending out KS copies to web store customers and retailers, and even the current 'retail' version has the KS exclusive resin figures. Basically they are trying to cut cost on the retail version, hoping to sell enough to be able to finish their KS fulfillment.
I don't think it is as clear cut as cutting cost on the retail to generate money to finish KS Fulfillment. I also believe the decision was made for multiple reasons. There are probably some contract fulfillment quota or guarantees set forth with their licensing, possibly to maintain it. It isn't unusual that a license require something being published (publishing could require sales) and/or if enough time passes otherwise it reverts back to the heir company. Unfortunately even though backers have paid for it, those usually won't be enough to qualify it to meet contract requirements. Obviously that is just a guess based on when I have been involved with licensing deals with board games before and probably none of us would see or get a hint of what the contract actually entails.
Yes the obvious reason was to cut costs since they said cost of manufacturing went up so they had to make changes to reduce costs but this had a side effect of creating a different version. They can now fulfill retail orders without technically impacting KS fulfillment, in other words someone getting a copy meant for them. Being a different version means that it has less stuff, thereby giving the overall snowflake feeling back that KS boxes are different than Retail versions. Even though backers got it late, they still get to retain their version theoretically meaning the KS version have more bang for their dollar. So although done for costs, it is sort of a PR move as well as possibly a requirement to meet contract obligations (which they've hinted at before).
By the looks of that packaging it's pretty much certain we'll get our game boxes all banged up - it's just a bit of plastic wrap (maybe some bubble, but not more than a layer or two) around the box. No way that gets delivered intact the way packages this size are tossed around.
Oh and joy of joys, they had apparently un-closed my pledge *again*. Dunno when but can't be more than a couple of weeks ago.
I can help on that one, as long as Prodos havn't changed that.
Yes, it's wrapped, but the game comes in an extra sturdy box. So you got the wrap, the box and in that the game. I even kept one, since I want one of my copies to be a "travel" version.
Yeah, that re-opening was mentioned a week or two ago.
aussiejed wrote:Well my two pledge copies were delivered the other day. They appear to be the thicker KS box, however there is a cardboard spacer inside. There are also less straight corridor tiles (28 vs 32) and no flame/acid template.
After all the trouble this has been, I'm not sure it's worth trying to sort this out.
I'd have to count corridor and other cardboard stuff to know that number for sure, but there is a box inside which houses all the palstic parts from minis over dice to doorclips. A piece of cardoard meant to keep everything from sliding around. Three packs of cards. What struck me odd was that foampiece glued into the top part of the box to push stuff down.
Me too. But i hold out hope that if/when a game box is delivered, it contains what it is supposed to contain. If KS backers are now getting the cheaper/thinner components AND the retail allotment of components I'll be even more pissed than I am now.
That would be a real fething, especially as the initial retail version was exactly what us KS backers were supposed to get.
I worked on the french version of AVP with 2 others : Monsieur H (our Great Leader) and CCCP.
At this point, I only know 3 other backers that received their pledge box (Monsieur H, CCCP and one I forgot the nickname).
We think that we received our box... after shouting a lot at prodos (more in MP) -.-'
Personnaly I demanded a refund at Michal, totally fed up of all this mess few weeks ago (he just answered me "have faith !!")... unsurprisingly he stopped talking... And 8 days ago I was notified that my pledge box were shipped...
In France, we don't have more information but, like you, we see and we know that retailers have been filled AND refilled several times...
I hope you'll receive yours very soon guys... But for me, I'll never buy anything from prodos.
Serviteur,
Morikun
EDIT : Oh, I would forget that little pearl : I'm french, I live in France, I worked on the french translation and I asked Michal for a french rulebook and french cards in MP... And I got an english version without more explanation... funny isn't it ? -.-'
Your "bad english" is way better than my best french... ;"
If I were you, I would make them give you the french material for the game. After the work that you helped with, I would think its the least you deserve!
I would say its unbelieveable, but sadly, it sounds so much like what they've been doing lately. Don't let them feth you!
Your "bad english" is way better than my best french... ;"
Your 'bad' English is a billion times better than my French, and still way better than Prodos' 'bad' English, so no apology necessary.
Thank you so much, I'm very honoured by these kind comments
If I were you, I would make them give you the french material for the game. After the work that you helped with, I would think its the least you deserve!
and I agree with Grumpae, you should insist on them sending you French materials free of charge.
Well, anyway the original idea was the fact that we (Monsieur H, the french translator and CCCP and I, the re-readers) would like to offer a very good (if not the best) french version to all the french-speakers. We would avoid the situation where the french translation would better than a simple "Google reverso" one. We planned to work for the community despite the fact that prodos is absolutely mad. But Monsieur H has successfully negociated that prodos promised for each of us 3 boxes for our work (we only get one at this point but I prefer knowing that all backers have received their before I get my giveaways... Yeah, I know I'm so idealistic ^^').
Our first thought was that it would not possible to find worst... But in fact it happens (did I told you that Monsieur H, the first who received his box... found it just wrapped in a simple black plastic bag ? And, as you think, it was "a little" smashed ?).
Having looked at the photos in your blog, you definitely got the retail version not the KS version.
Hum... I think Michal will have an another email of mine... -.-'
I've read on Warmania (our best minis french forum) that 1 other backer get his pledge box... After shouting too. So in France, we are 5 early backers shipped.
THAT sucks.
C'mon, shipping stuff in a bit of wrapping?
They even went that far to print AvP on the shipping box.
Yeah, first spend money on useless stuff and then running out - sounds like Prodos.
Just as an addition, here's how you identify whether the box you've received is a KS version or one of the newer Retail versions ......
KS versions have 32 corridor tiles, Retail has 28
KS versions have a set of templates for blasts/flamers/acid spit that are actually for the wargame. Retail does not. Note these template are found on the card sheet that has the circular rooms, in the retail version, that sheet has corridors on it, but you get one less of the other sheets of corridors, hence the drop in overall numbers.
KS versions have the tokens and doors printed on the same thickness cardstock as the tiles. Retail tokens and doors are printed on significantly thinner cardstock.
There has been talk that even the tiles of the retail set are on slightly thinner and lighter card than the KS version, though this is not proven.
KS versions have the cards packed in three decks, inside white card deck boxes. Retail has the same number of cards, but they are simply held together in packs (possibly more than 3) using elastic bands.
Very latest boxes seem to have aliens with the heads removed - they've switched to moulding them seperately to reduce their wastage rates. Arguably this is a good thing as it allows you more scope with posing.
And Prodos wonders why there are so many complaints and bad feelings towards them then they go and pull this and hope backers won't notice that they put retail sets in the KS box hopefully its a shipping/packing error and they correct it but if the new thinner components are in the KS box then that looks deliberate to me.
Is 6.5kg (14lbs) the KS version? (Conclave of Har review 15 July 2015)
Is 4.5kg, box size 7.6 x 53.3 x 31.8 cm (3” x 21” x 12½“) as on on Amazon.co.uk (Cavalier Books) the retail version?
Discussion about recent boxes arriving on closed facebook at moment: -
Guys you had been making great progress in the field of communication in the last few weeks, people are getting the game and loving it and it would be a great shame to spoil it all so close to the last hurdle.
Like · Reply · 1 hr
Rob P Alderman We're looking into it, guys. smile emoticon
Like · Reply · 1 · 26 mins
Jason Jardine I'd suggest there should be a pinned statement to that effect earlier rather than later - a "We're aware that some backers appear to have received the retail version in error, we are investigating and looking at ways to resolve the problem, and will report back as soon as we can" type message, rather than soundbites stuck in the middle of threads.
unless of course it isn't an error .....
Like · 1 · 7 mins
Rob P Alderman Problem is, I have no idea what the full situation is until I get a message back from the warehouse team regarding it.
All I know is that we are looking into it, but I agree with your statement.
Like · 4 mins
Hum, my pledge box weights exactly 4 kg... A new version ? ^^'
And Prodos wonders why there are so many complaints and bad feelings towards them
Obviously, prodos is searching for new apologizes : after the FOX troubles, "writing backrground" but there is no background in fact, french strikes in Calais (so easy !!) to explain why UK backers wouldn't receive their pledge boxes... regarding the last update the problems of prodos seem to belong to... the backers themselves... "Oh, angry backers, its so unfair !!"
Some of us, french backers, are planning to travel to the Spiel Essen in the view to say "a little word" to prodos... It would be epic anyway...
Ushtug wrote: Is 6.5kg (14lbs) the KS version? (Conclave of Har review 15 July 2015)
Is 4.5kg, box size 7.6 x 53.3 x 31.8 cm (3” x 21” x 12½“) as on on Amazon.co.uk (Cavalier Books) the retail version?
I have one of the original 51 given out at UK Expo and I can absolutely assure you that the KS version was NEVER 6.5kg. I did measure mine when I got it home, but can't remember the exact figure, but 4.5kg is about right (might have been 4.6?). My understanding is that the retail version in the thinner box weighs in at around 3.5kg.
The KS box is 525mm x 325mm x 65mm. I'm not sure what Cavalier have measured, but their measurements are wrong (probably taken from Prodos measurements of some pre-production version rather than actual measurements). Given the weight, I'd guess theirs is likely the older KS version.
Note - while the retail box is most definitely shallower by a couple of centimetres or so, I've read talk that some of the recent deliveries to backers have been retail components (see my previous post for obvious differences) inside KS boxes with some additional foam/card as space filler. To my mind this suggests that Prodos knows exactly what they are doing, and that therefore this recent debacle is not a "mistake" but rather is entirely intentional.
The obvious conclusion would be that they sent a large chunk of KS version boxes to retail (we know this for sure) but now don't have enough KS components to complete KS delivery, and so rather than a new KS production run (which will be very costly and minimum print runs will probably mean they'll end up with way too much KS spec stock, which then won't fit in retail boxes, so they'll need more of them as well) they are are delivering retail components to backers instead. They probably thought we wouldn't notice, or wouldn't care, or perhaps they truly believe it doesn't matter because they are still delivering product.
Since this has kicked off, Jarek has stated the following ....
Jarek Ever we are checking with supplier, however the flamer and blast templates were removed in both instances as they are obsolete (not used in Board game and wargame ones are updated) + we had tons of emails asking for them, so there is now layout of tiles. I sshould have more info after weekend.
Make of that what you will, but it sounds like firefighting balony to me. Nobody reported getting a KS box without templates until they started reporting getting retail components in the KS boxes - thinner card, less corridors, super thin card for tokens and doors etc, so I get the distinct impression there's an attempt right there to pretend this is all correct and above board. They really must think we were born yesterday.
This is disgusting behavior. Even if they deliberately removed the templates, they did so without letting us know, and without letting us know when and how the 'updated' versions would be provided. How would they expect people to react? Of course when you combine the missing templates with the retail quantity of tiles and retail quality and the added filler it is hard to take this as anything other than a big "feth You KS Backer".
This is just so damned bad. And yet, I am a vitriolic hater because I point it out.
I am pretty sure I said this before but it bears repeating: feth Prodos.
I would like to inform you that I received my pledge box 2 days ago...
I must confess that I'm really disgusted by the fact that you didn't answer me when, firstly, I demanded you some precise and true explanations about the situation where prodos was proud to announce that about 1500 backers were shipped and, secondly, I asked for a refund because of fed up with all this mess...
So I receive my pledge box... If I would thank prodos because the minis are really amazing with lots details etc etc etc... prodos sent me an english version (rulebook and cards)... BUT, I'm absolutely certain (check my previous mails please) that I asked for a french version... Due to the fact I'm french, I live in France... and I'm the one of your 3 french backers who worked on your french translation !!!!!
But the most important is that prodos sent me a retail version instead a KS version !!! Where are the templates promised (flammer, acid etc etc etc...) ? The bonus tiles ? The white deck cards boxes ? The token sheet is very thinner than promised !!
Would you be kind enough to give me your opinion about that please ? Must I understand that this box is 1 of the 3 promised as giveaways for working on the french translation which as promised by Rob Aldermann ? It is possible to get french translation please ?
Most of all, IS IT POSSIBLE YOU ANSWER ME PLEASE ?????
Waiting, nevertheless, for your answer,
Morikun
I think I can expect no more than nothing but after all... I tryed...
So... wheres my crap? Seriously, at this point I'm more fed up with Prodos than I am Palladium. Supposedly, someone (Ninja Division?) has had a couple of skids of pledge boxes sitting in a warehouse somewhere for almost 2 months but has yet to ship a single fething box to anyone? I call bs.
Allegedly Ninja Division is starting to send out what they have. They initially were waiting for Prodos to send all the US KS allotment before sending, but that has changed.
Now, if/when the rest of it hits the US, some other company closer to the port will send out the remainder. So if you are lucky, one of the ones currently at Ninja Division will be heading your way. If you are really lucky, it will be an actual KS version and not a retail version stuffed into a KS box. I suspect the still awaiting to arrive sets will be retail versions in a KS box. I also suspect Ninja Division is washing their hands of this mess.
Morikun wrote: I think I can expect no more than nothing but after all... I tryed...
Honestly... when dealing with a situation like this where an order is wrong from a KS, to get something done it is better not to preface it with any personal feelings and judgments. It is all in how you deliver a message that can determine getting a response. At this point they already know they've messed up. They already know that there are people unhappy and you are just trying to get something corrected. Having dealt with campaigns like this where items are late, people are upset, I've found getting replacements and corrections to be easiest that way. When I had my issues that was all I did and it was sorted out in a few days with stuff arriving a few weeks later. I probably would have simply said something like:
Hello,
I just received my Kickstarter pledge box.
I had asked for a French version but this one was English. Also it looks like I was sent a Retail version instead of the Kickstarter version. I am missing tiles, the templates and the tiles appear to be the thin ones I've seen with the Retail version.
How can I get this corrected? Here is my order number and information....
With all due respect, I mailed Prodos couple of times. I only received a peep from them, when I was dropping verbal bombs. Nice and civil mails got ignored. I really don't know what's wrong with this company. Do we have to beg for the rest of the KS stuff later on?
Please Mr Rob, We know, we mean less than the feces of a lowly dog to you, but would you find it in that cesspit of vitriolic hate you have for us backers to ship us the stuff we paid months if not years ago?
In humble servitute, a backer.
OK, maybe not as rearcrawling as it can be, but I think it's not too far off.
Friday AvP update postponed
September 18, 2015 Leave a comment
Good Morning, Afternoon and Evening guys,
Sadly, due to circumstances out of our control there will not be an update today. We will post one at the beginning of next week as we are aware there are some imminent questions that some of you would like to be answered.
We apologize for the delay and hope you have a wonderful weekend. If we can update you sooner, we will do.
Did their 56k modem break down? Or they ran out of packing tape and can't run to the supermarket to get another roll? I wonder what the emergency is that they can't write a few paragraphs about their massively delayed project.
What I assume Prodos said wrote:Hey guys, once again we tried to sneak a change on you and got busted being less than honest about it. Now we need to figure out the best way to lay blame on someone other than ourselves while at the same time giving the appearance we sympathize with you and are working to resolve it. Once we figure out how to do so while carefully ensuring we don't actually promise you anything or provide concrete info, we'll get back with you.
Moses Bad wrote: With all due respect, I mailed Prodos couple of times. I only received a peep from them, when I was dropping verbal bombs.
As I don't know when it was sent or who was working at the time since they have made multiple changes of emails, I unfortunately can't comment further. I can tell you that I received responses from 6 months before GenCon and I got stuff corrected after GenCon. Having received replacements I haven't had further communication with them... other than some other projects but was told sculpting is busy until late October. Every Kickstarter I've dealt with I've just been fortunate to not have any issues getting responses and replacements so I can only give advice on what worked for me. *shrugs*
What I assume Prodos said wrote:Hey guys, once again we tried to sneak a change on you and got busted being less than honest about it. Now we need to figure out the best way to lay blame on someone other than ourselves while at the same time giving the appearance we sympathize with you and are working to resolve it. Once we figure out how to do so while carefully ensuring we don't actually promise you anything or provide concrete info, we'll get back with you.
Now that is real Rumor Control. Finally some honest communication about the project!
Alex C wrote: So did anyone else ever get a PM from Prodos on Dakka asking you to stop hating on them?
Or was it just me?
Pics or it didnt happen.
It was a while ago, and it was a PM so I'll keep it private, but it's been bothering me and I was just curious if anyone else who regularly highlights Prodos' faux pas or levied criticism against them has received similar treatment.
One upon a time, long long ago when the warzone KS appeared and nobody knew who Prodos were
I posted the names of the company directors in response to a 'who are these guys & what have they done?' question having pulled the info out of companies house via google
and was politely asked to remove them (I'm still not sure why as there was nothing negative floating about at that time)
Alex C wrote: So did anyone else ever get a PM from Prodos on Dakka asking you to stop hating on them?
Or was it just me?
Pics or it didnt happen.
It was a while ago, and it was a PM so I'll keep it private, but it's been bothering me and I was just curious if anyone else who regularly highlights Prodos' faux pas or levied criticism against them has received similar treatment.
From what I recall you did pursue them like a terrier in other threads they posted when they still came to these forums in person.
I posted the names of the company directors in response to a 'who are these guys & what have they done?' question having pulled the info out of companies house via google
and was politely asked to remove them (I'm still not sure why as there was nothing negative floating about at that time)
Interesting - I've posted links to the company financials and directors' comings and goings and no one's ever PM'd me to moan. It would amuse me if they did though. Words 2 & 3 would be "... right off".
Actually I've just checked and it seems it was the business addresses that seemed to be the main issue rather than specifically the names
(I miss-remembered... sorry Prodos.... but still have the PMs)
I guessed it was probably a private address they'd just used to set up the company (probably one of their homes) so I took it down (if anybody had wanted to find out they could have found it themselves fairly easily)
Alex C wrote: So did anyone else ever get a PM from Prodos on Dakka asking you to stop hating on them?
Or was it just me?
Pics or it didnt happen.
It was a while ago, and it was a PM so I'll keep it private, but it's been bothering me and I was just curious if anyone else who regularly highlights Prodos' faux pas or levied criticism against them has received similar treatment.
I have not gotten any, which makes me feel like I've ben slacking. I was pretty sure I was one of the most blunt critics of their behavior. Maybe I need to step up my game.
Alex C wrote: So did anyone else ever get a PM from Prodos on Dakka asking you to stop hating on them?
Or was it just me?
Pics or it didnt happen.
It was a while ago, and it was a PM so I'll keep it private, but it's been bothering me and I was just curious if anyone else who regularly highlights Prodos' faux pas or levied criticism against them has received similar treatment.
That's kind of hilarious. Do they really think that they can ask people to stop being angry?
Many posts ago I thought Kingdom Death, Rum and Bones and Journey Wrath of Demons would all beat AVP to my doorstep. Today KD:M wave 1 arrived and still no sign of AVP.
Prodos are at a show a 30min drive away. Giving a copy of AVP as a prize. (It's for charity so that's nice of them). Don't know if it worth making a special journey though since they've not suggested collecting pledges.
Perhaps there was no update yesterday since they were going to the show. But still, that'd have been an easy update. "Going to a show tomorrow, brb"
PomWallaby wrote: Many posts ago I thought Kingdom Death, Rum and Bones and Journey Wrath of Demons would all beat AVP to my doorstep. Today KD:M wave 1 arrived and still no sign of AVP.
Prodos are at a show a 30min drive away. Giving a copy of AVP as a prize. (It's for charity so that's nice of them). Don't know if it worth making a special journey though since they've not suggested collecting pledges.
Perhaps there was no update yesterday since they were going to the show. But still, that'd have been an easy update. "Going to a show tomorrow, brb"
Is that Dragondaze? I think they pulled out of that show about a week ago - worth double checking before making a journey.
So after sending my email to Michal yesterday about receiving à retail version instead of backer version... 1 hour later (yeah ! 1 hour !! O_O) the big boss Jarek himself answered me !!
Hi there, 1st off all, thanks for you support in translation to French.
We still haven got printed French version of the game, at this stage is only German and Spanish which went to print.
The Flamer template was removed from the game due to being obsolete, it;s not been used at all in the game and we have been receiving a lot of questions about "how to use the templates", nor the wargaming version of the AvP will be using them, so we have decided to remove them as you won't use them with the game.
The White Box was removed due to quality issues, some customers have reported that the box scratched the surface of the tiles during transportation, thus we needed to remove it for quality improvement.
There was a mistake with the tiles (not enough infested one vs needed for some missions, thus we have taken this opportunity to fix that mistake to v1.
As for tokens, it's also changed due to quality issues, thicker tokens, after few games have shown delamination of the graphic/card board token, thus we needed to make it thinner to make sure they, after some heavy usage won't delaminate. Also it was causing issues on stamping (small elements, like Hide or Sentry tokens where delaminating after some use). In general, this way we have make sure that your game will last for longer and you wont have any issues with the quality of the product.
So it's now clear and official : the retail version is the same as the KS version...
And due to the fact I could write directly to Jarek, I write a lot, giving my opinion about all this mess since the beginning :
Hello my Dear Jarek,
Thank you so much : finally I feel that my question has been heard !!
Jarek, as you take the time to respond me, I'll try to keep the more objective than I can as backer of your project and I wish you can hear me.
About the template, ok for the moment, it's obsolete and you've very much asked for its use... But correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think that these questions were from backers non ? It only came from the customers who could grab a retail version isnt'it ? We, backers, were always aware about these templates and we waited for it... I waited for it because I would use it in my personnal wargame play...
How could you decide to remove them without telling anything to your backers Jarek ? How can we, backers, admit it more than an another unfair fault of prodos ?
I still would keep objective and polite as I can, but you would understand it's more and more difficult for me... And for all those who must wait without anything : I'm so so disgusted by prodos behaviour. You cannot think how I am.
At the beginning, I felt very happy when I put an eye (and the other) on your KS campaign... The spirit of crowdfunding deals with, more than banks and other business professionals, on the confidence (firstly) and the respect (secondly). Backers aren't anonymous wallets you can take the money and just answer "We're busy ok ? We cannot tell you anything for that moment. It's not our fault". I take the view that backers can hear everything... if you show them your best respect as they chose to give you their confidence...
We know that a crowdfunding project is rarely developped without difficulties : late, mistakes, misundertoods... all that could happen to all and backers could forgive you... if you show them your respect... And it starts by saying the truth.
I would lie if I tell you that you make me happy. Moreover, in early 2014, you wrote an update in which, after a lot of "mistakes" (to be polite) you told us that you heard us and you would fix all the problems AND you would be honest in your communication... And what you gave us ? Nothing but lie, silence, very bad answers etc etc etc... How can you think backers would react ? At this current time, all of your backers (and to be honest I'm in) think that you take our money, you made all what you wanted without telling anything and now you make profits leaving us in a total blackout... And because of that, you lost all your credit from us. What a big shame whereas we all believe in you...
I read you last update when you're complaining about the fact that some of your employees would be attacked by angry peoples... Of course it's a very bad situation for everyone and more for your employees (can you tell them my support and my thoughts ?). Violence is never an option or a solution and I hate it... But hey, Jareck, how could you thought this couldn't happen ? Be aware that some backers put a big lot of money in your project and all they see is retailers sell tons of AVP boxes while they must endure "Ho ho ho ! Your boxes will ship very soon guys !! Be patient, have faith !!"... How could you react with someone who take your money... and suddenly keep silence or show that money you give goes directly on the hands of the rest of the world except your own pocket ? You exploded all our patience since very long time...
Honestly, I hated you and prodos for all this lies, silences empty promises "backers will be shipped 25th june" "backers will be shipped first be sure of that"... I really hated you. I worked on the french translation not for you but to give the opportunity to all the french speakers could have something to smile despite all this fog. That's why if I can see your courtesy, I'm not waiting for your thanks. Now, I passed hate, I'm just disgusted, roughly disgusted.
Maybe you're a gentle person in your private life, Jarek ; I really hope so, you know... But at this point how backers can trust you ? The path will be very long for you to aim our respect and our confidence... If you want to do so... But it's never too late despite the fact there is a lot of peoples who would not buy your products (like me). A video when you explain us all the situation (with all the informations we grab here and there, without strass, without "hey hey !! We're proud to announce that XXX !!! You backers are really great !!" but just with you and the truth would be great. Please.
So I'll end this very long mail now. Just 3 last questions :
- When the french translation will be ready, can we have (with my 2 others franch translators fellows) a french rulebook + cards please ?
- When all the backers will receive their boxes ? I can't understand we, backers, must still wait one more second. I can't understand my american friends must wait one more second as you told us you shipped tons of boxes to ninja division.
- What is the real situation about add-ons ? Totally approved or not ? When you'll ship it to us ?
Thank you very much for reading me. I think you probably won't answer at all my questions... But I took the opportunity to tell you how I'm desappointed... Nevertheless I wish you to see the light very soon and you'll see that there is a lot of backers who just wait for their due.
Cheers,
Morikun
And immediatly (really immediately : less than 5 minutes !!) Jarek answered me :
Hi there I totally understand, however making a change is not that simple, we cannot have 2 different tiles sheets from manufacturing, picking and packing point of view as this would cost more that we have made on KS and we are nnot asking you (backers) to cover an extra 30% on manufacturing cost increase to the cost we have been given in 2013 when the KS was launched? . I understand that you are not interested in hearing that, but this is the most hones answer I can give you.
- When the french translation will be ready, can we have (with my 2 others franch translators fellows) a french rulebook + cards please ?
Jarek: Yes, once is ready, we are in discussion with distributor, and we will make it only if we met minimum production demands... printing just 100 copies is not an option due to cost (it would cost 10 Euro per game more?) But we will keep you updated about the French version
- When all the backers will receive their boxes ? I can't understand we, backers, must still wait one more second. I can't understand my american friends must wait one more second as you told us you shipped tons of boxes to ninja division.
Jarek: We are shipping them on daily basis, thus backers are receiving them every day.
- What is the real situation about add-ons ? Totally approved or not ? When you'll ship it to us ?
Jarek: Soon, we are shipping from this week add-ons with backers orders.
Even though I had pretty much made up my mind to sell my stuff if/when I got it, I had assumed being able to sell the KS version would mean I may not lose as much. Now they have taken even that from me.
So.. to recap... the original KS version was supposed to be a deluxe resin version as opposed to the plastic less inclusive one for retail... that is the contract that people paid under two years ago.. then the deluxe resin KS only version was offered for sale for over a year and put into the retail chain to meet minimum production numbers... and then they decided to cut costs on the retail version by removing content and adding cheaper thinner terrain bits and putting it in a smaller box and suddenly the "minmum production numbers" didn't matter.... and then they secretly decided to ship KS backers that cheaper, thinner version in the original bigger box.
Did I miss anything regarding the actual box? Yes, I know, pulling down the KS for a nonexistent "IP violation" issue so that they wouldn't have to deal with comments, posting info they knew was incorrect about shipping KS backer copies, etc... I mean about the actual drama surrounding the box and its contents.
The communication is so hilariously horrible you have to think it's intentional. Instead of PRODOS putting out some type of an update letting everyone know why there was a change to the box set they privately email this explanation to one guy. Instead of getting in front of this they go radio silent. They remove the ability to post on their FB page. Force everyone to go to their forum. And don't issue an update for this week.
Not to mention that US backers still haven't seen anything shipped.
Is it possible that we never see completion of this kickstarter? Has it come to that?
same minis & amounts of minis & bases in each (although mini box is thinner in retail version)
same dice in each (although color can vary)
same cards in each (ks is in white card boxes & retail is rubber banded)
same amount of bases for doors
same rulebook (looks the same, but have not went page by page yet)
KS has flame/acid template on thick card stock but retail does not have template
KS has more tokens & tokens are same thickness as board tiles BUT retail version is less tokens on thinner card stock
The KS edition has 144 board tiles (including the doors) but the Retail version has 112 game tiles (including doors)
KS box is thicker but retail box is thinner
Brown box it came mailed in, KS is stamped with AVP logo but retail is not stamped
There ya go!
Sounds like the 'new' KS come with what you listed for the retail version. Consider yourself lucky you got one with what you should have.
I was thinking initially of Predator II sort of thing, but I could easily see an Alien nest in there too, among lots of zombie themed games of course.
There was an apocalyptic looking world at the end of the 4th Aliens movie, and this would be good for that too. Although your game would undoubtedly have better acting and be much more fun
Perhaps one day I'll have AvP minis to play on this great terrain, just like those first pics >sniff<
*sigh* when I had heard last month that they were starting to ship to backers, I went to my FLGS and ordered a copy. It was supposed to be available August 30th ... no word on when it'll show up now (I trust the FLGS owner, but Prodos....).
How can a company mirror PB's incompetence so well from the other side of the pond? This is awful guys, I feel for ya'll.
After a few poking emails, my stuff is finally getting dispatched it seems. Only the boxed game mind, but it's a start. I guess all my extra stuff comes in Wave 2 "soon".
It has "only" 23 pages but it's very big for us... And like this place, we in France are very very disgusted by the prodos behaviour (but it seems to be that "a very few little" of french backers is now receiving their "pledge no longer pledge" box...
They already made that decision, it's regrettable but had to be done, and is now in the past. Start living in the Prodos zone, not then, not now, soon is where it's at!
angelofvengeance wrote: Errr do you mean you're getting the Retail copy instead of the chunky Kickstarter copy??
It would seem Prodos has begun packing the retail version into KS boxes and sending them out to KS backers.
At this point, I don't give a feth. I'm tired and fed up with Prodos. The sooner I get all my stuff the better and after that, NEVER AGAIN. Life is too short for me to be fething about with prats like this lot. Couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.
Yeah that's it : we are receiving in France the retail version as the KS version... and that's all folks !! -.-'
About the update, I understood a big "maybe"...
About the add-ons... prodos promised that backers would be shipped first but we know now what does that mean...
I would really curious about what prodos could say to those who will go to the Essen... "We are glad to respond at any questions ! Big high five guys !!"... really ? "where is my f.....g box ?!" for an example...
When this latest one regarding retail version in KS boxes broke out, I actually thought that just perhaps it was a genuine error. Because sometimes focusing clearing up one disaster results in other disasters happening unnoticed, requiring their own clear up. And there have been a lot of those. But...um ... that would appear to have been completely wrong of me, and they're at it again.
I might end up with Leading Edge paper stand up figures to go with all my Battle Systems terrain.
I'm not to happy about having to send prodding e-mails to get any action out of them either.
According to Jarek on the AvP group today, it looks like ALL KS backers will get the predator ship tiles as a "freebie - sorry we've been crappy" gesture - if you paid for it in the PM, you will get the chance to swap it for something else, or get 2 copies.
Jarek Ever Jason there is few changes, due to quality complains: delamination of tokens in some instances and scratches caused by the box with cards (thus they are in the rubber bands to stop flying around the box. Again, the update will explain it more in depth . Also no flamer template as it was no needed in the game nor wargame, so as we where doing the changes we have decided to remove it and give some stuff for free for backers to make sure that they are not again forgotten by Prodos.
Jarek Ever no at this stage, we wanted to add a full sheet of tiles to KS version (Predator corridors) but that would need another set of approvals, thus we will give for free a sent of corridors that wont be available in retail for backers (to make up for changes) that is few more corridors than you would get normally If someone already got it in their pledge manager will get 2 (or will have an option to replace with something else if needed) I think this is the best we can do at this stage. Again the changed we have made to both version are pure cosmetic and they are fixing about 5% of quality issues we were getting.
Like · 3 hrs
Jorel Levenson Jarek Ever that is a let down about the pred ship tiles. I know that I wanted that as well as many others. I hope you plan on still sending that out to backers....
Like · 3 hrs
Jarek Ever Jorel the Predators tiles will happen (but not for retail) only KS backers will get it, for free now.
Like · 1 · 3 hrs
Jorel Levenson guess I don't recall if I added them or they were part of the pledge
Like · 3 hrs
Jorel Levenson Jarek Ever, looks like I did pay for that add-on. What are my options?
Like · 3 hrs
Jarek Ever Get 2 or exchange it for something else. we will make that option available in PM.
Like · 1 · 3 hrs
Great, so now I actually have to get into the PM. Ordered two sets of the Pred-Tiles and really see no ship big enough to justify three sets ... I know, it's be a killer, but how's about you drp in a set of that 3D terrain for free. Sure, will never happen and as it is would kill the company for sure ...
After a Minute of thought, I'd rather not have those tiles for free but for every backer to receive the exact same stuff, no shortcuts because they had the missfortune to get shoved to the end of the line. My opinion, doesn't have to be everybody's
By now I'm under the impression they actually are trying hard to find ways to anger their backers ... no update without some crap that is just another slap in the face for at least the majority.
It is a gak gesture. They decreased quality and quantity of what our base boxes are supposed to contain, AFTER having sold full up versions to non-KS backers. You cannot legitimately switch the contents of the KS box after having sent some with the full contents out, especially having sent them out to non-backers.
Why is it okay that ALL backers paid for the full KS version, and only SOME will have gotten it? Do those who did get it not get the pred tiles for free? No. We'll all (allegedly) get them. So in effect they've cheapened the value of many of our pledges.
So.. they basically got caught secretly trying to stiff every KS backer that hadn't gotten their stuff yet by giving them an inferior version of the game with less/cheaper components and as a mea culpa they're promising something cool at an undetermined future date SOONtm while the thrifty versions of the game slowly diffuse out now. Is this the new Prodos logo?
Hey, I gave them money for minis, I dont care what material they are produced in, how they're placed on the sprue, what color they are, etc. so long as they are in the scale, color, quantity and quality that I was promised. Everything else is a bonus (Except the wargame rules. I want the fething wargame rules already).
So kickstarter backers are going to be getting the new retail version of the game not the KS one that has been shipped to shops for a while.
But they are going to give the predator tiles to backers for free......
Why haven't Prodos bothered to tell backers this until they had done it!
Not happy about receiving a lower quality version of the game with less tiles, but then, I've lost all interest in playing the game now, I just want my aliens n predators now to use in other things.
Sounds like something that a responsible company would announce via a kickstarter update. I wonder if Prodos will do that... oh, wait... they shut down the kickstarter page purposely under false IP pretenses to avoid discussion when their own created issues started to become public.
Prodos is really competing hard for the price of the worst run KS ever.
Of the ones actually producing something, to rule out the ones who simply ran with the money.
Bolognesus wrote:Worse than the ice age mammals KS? That's a stretch.
Moses Bad wrote:Prodos is really competing hard for the price of the worst run KS ever.
Of the ones actually producing something, to rule out the ones who simply ran with the money.
He already excluded the campaigns that are outright crimes.
Bolognesus wrote:Worse than the ice age mammals KS? That's a stretch.
Moses Bad wrote:Prodos is really competing hard for the price of the worst run KS ever.
Of the ones actually producing something, to rule out the ones who simply ran with the money.
He already excluded the campaigns that are outright crimes.
That Gigantopithicus was a crime even if the project WAS legit.
Bolognesus wrote:Worse than the ice age mammals KS? That's a stretch.
Moses Bad wrote:Prodos is really competing hard for the price of the worst run KS ever. Of the ones actually producing something, to rule out the ones who simply ran with the money.
He already excluded the campaigns that are outright crimes.
That Gigantopithicus was a crime even if the project WAS legit.
And yet it's still at a more advanced stage towards eventual production that Wave 2 of the Robotech KS... But yes, those sculpts were assaults on the eyes.
Bolognesus wrote:Worse than the ice age mammals KS? That's a stretch.
Moses Bad wrote:Prodos is really competing hard for the price of the worst run KS ever.
Of the ones actually producing something, to rule out the ones who simply ran with the money.
He already excluded the campaigns that are outright crimes.
He excluded the ones that ran with the money (egg mech suits etc). These guys produced... Something...
I agree they ought to be shot in the nuts* for what they produced if there's a God at all, but then again I can't honestly say that distinguishes them from Prodos all that much anymore, IMO
For all I know, they never received anything from that ... thing. Geez, that thing is going to hunt my dreams.
Other KS that ran with the money could be way more than anybody can care to count. I wonder how long KS will be around the day they are forced to provide some form of insurance for the "investors". Let's be honest, it's an often made claim, KS isn't pre-order, it's investing.
Two things that counter that thought: companies like Mantic and CMON and As an investor, I'd be in for the profits. In KS it's just for the rewards.
BTW, did I ever mention T5? The guy's roughly a year late, still nobody complaining. Why, you ask, Prodos? Because he is (or at least we get the feeling he is) honest to us and communicating. But what do we know, we only live in a cesspool of hate, right? As long as you have your happy go lucky humpty dumpty fanboys, you be happy Prodos.
richred_uk wrote: According to Jarek on the AvP group today, it looks like ALL KS backers will get the predator ship tiles as a "freebie - sorry we've been crappy" gesture - if you paid for it in the PM, you will get the chance to swap it for something else, or get 2 copies.
Jarek Ever Jason there is few changes, due to quality complains: delamination of tokens in some instances and scratches caused by the box with cards (thus they are in the rubber bands to stop flying around the box. Again, the update will explain it more in depth . Also no flamer template as it was no needed in the game nor wargame, so as we where doing the changes we have decided to remove it and give some stuff for free for backers to make sure that they are not again forgotten by Prodos.
Jarek Ever no at this stage, we wanted to add a full sheet of tiles to KS version (Predator corridors) but that would need another set of approvals, thus we will give for free a sent of corridors that wont be available in retail for backers (to make up for changes) that is few more corridors than you would get normally If someone already got it in their pledge manager will get 2 (or will have an option to replace with something else if needed) I think this is the best we can do at this stage. Again the changed we have made to both version are pure cosmetic and they are fixing about 5% of quality issues we were getting.
Like · 3 hrs
Jorel Levenson Jarek Ever that is a let down about the pred ship tiles. I know that I wanted that as well as many others. I hope you plan on still sending that out to backers....
Like · 3 hrs
Jarek Ever Jorel the Predators tiles will happen (but not for retail) only KS backers will get it, for free now.
Like · 1 · 3 hrs
Jorel Levenson guess I don't recall if I added them or they were part of the pledge
Like · 3 hrs
Jorel Levenson Jarek Ever, looks like I did pay for that add-on. What are my options?
Like · 3 hrs
Jarek Ever Get 2 or exchange it for something else. we will make that option available in PM.
Like · 1 · 3 hrs
Talk is cheap. It's great we're all getting these "free" tiles. Meanwhile many of us still don't have our boxsets, which have now been changed mid stream. and I'm still befuddled how a company that cant afford to ship the backers their wave 1 pledges can suddenly afford to break this into 3 waves of shipping. Plus freebies. Ya right.
haha - those pics amuse me. They tried to claim those pictures as evidence that they make models for "lots" of other companies. Now in fairness they do, they're making the resins for River Horse's Terminator game for example, and I don't think many if any of us would be critical of the quality of their minis, if there's one thing Prodos do well, it's that. But the true story of that picture is somewhat different. While technically Hysterical Games is a separate company, it's actually owned and run by one of the Prodos staff.
SO anyways, I digress. I had some thought about the latest revelations from Jarek, namely these "free" predator ship tiles he talked about sending to all backers.
We know that the initial run of printing for boxed games were done with all components on the same thickness card. This card appears (from reports I've read) to be thicker than even the tile card used in the latest boxes - ie they haven't just reduced the card thickness of the doors and tokens (which are significantly thinner) but also the tiles themselves - not by much, but by a little - maybe 0.5mm (guessing). This would make some sense - the box itself is significantly shallower, so given that the original deeper box was full, it would not be enough to reduce the thickness of the tokens sheet and remove one other sheet - everything else must be slightly thinner to fit into the new box.
Now let's assume that Prodos always intended retail boxes to contain the thicker cardstock that the initial KS boxes have, and these changes have been forced upon them (by Fox, or economics of shipping such heavy boxes, or cost of manufacturing - doesn't really matter)
We know it costs a huge amount to do print runs. They often have to be done in minimum numbers. 5000 seems to have been the number banded about in the project.
So they printed 5000 sets of tiles, tokens etc. My guess is they also printed 5000 sets of the predator ship tiles at the same time, because it was cheaper for them to do so then than go back and do it later (time already booked with printers, cardstock ordered etc). They have those tile sheets in their warehouse. Note - it's more than possible they didn't ever get signoff on these items from Fox prior to the print run - we know they made all the figures for the boxsets mutli-part
and then had to scrap them and start again (no doubt because Fox wanted minimum numbers of parts for the boxed game) so why not have jumped the gun on the pred tiles as well?
So now they have shipped a quantity of those 5000 KS spec boxes to backers and a (greater) number of them to retail much to our annoyance, but I think we understand why that was necessary.
Then they've changed the spec of the cardstock in the boxed game - because Fox/costs/weight/whatever, and this means they can't fullfil the KS shipment because that initial stock is all gone. They could (assuming Fox would let them, but why wouldn't they?) do a second print run of the KS spec cardstock, but that would be another 5000 units and maybe they only need 1000 or so. They'd be left with 4000 units that they couldn't sell because they've changed the spec - it would be dead stock. In other words basic economics and the unplanned switch to thinner card for retail prevents them from doing the right thing.
and meanwhile they've made the predator tiles. Even if Fox now authorise those, they won't authorise them on the old thicker cardstock simply because they'll want all the retail stuff to match going forward. Jarek also says that the Pred tiles won't ever go to retail, so maybe Fox have already said no. They have 5000 units of predator tiles sat there which they can't sell, so they'll give them to backers as a "freebie" Of course since they are also shipping thinner card to backers, some backers will end up with a missmatch between old and new tiles anyway.
That's what I think is happening here. The second they decided to ship KS stuff to retail they doomed themselves. They may not have predicted that there would need to be a change in cardstock quality moving forward, but that decision doomed them.
and now there's no way out.
Last week's update, delayed to "the beginning of this week" will be very interesting when it comes.
oh I agree, just covering all the bases for why/who might have wanted it changed. They might possibly have wanted the weight of the set to come down, especially if heavier means higher retail price in the long run.
but yeah, it's almost certainly a Prodos economics decision I should think. The point is it doesn't matter much why they've changed it, just that that decision is the root of the current issue (and the reason why the have a bunch of predator tiles to give away)
Taken your estimation with print runs is correct it just shows once more the incompetence of Prodos.
How hard can it be to put asside all the boxes you need to fulfill and ship the rest to retailers and sell off and printing more then?
Ain't hard, Prodos blew it, made angry people angrier, gak hit the fan.
Moses Bad wrote: Taken your estimation with print runs is correct it just shows once more the incompetence of Prodos.
How hard can it be to put asside all the boxes you need to fulfill and ship the rest to retailers and sell off and printing more then?
Ain't hard, Prodos blew it, made angry people angrier, gak hit the fan.
Very hard if you've spent all the income from the kickstarter (and more) on development and redevelopment (including remaking 115000 models because you were stupid enough to make them in 7 parts before Fox had signed them off, and Fox wanted single or at least very few parts for their 'marketed to man in street' board game) and your incompetence has lead to the project overrunning by over a year, depriving you of huge amounts of income and impacting on your workforce by tying up resources.
They had to sell KS units to retail because they couldn't even afford the shipping of KS units to backers - they've admitted that. If that is true, then with Fox on their backs to do a retail launch, they didn't have either the time or money to mothball our sets and do a retail thin card print run.
They should have split up the funds at the start of the project into different pots, but failed to do so and over time they've massively overspent. Meanwhile, for whatever reason, their other income streams are not bringing in the income needed to prop AvP up and get it off the ground. They've basically balls the project management up from minute 1 and kept digging (and spending) in the hope that it would all come good in the end. It might yet, but boy have they upset a large chunk of their customer base and that has to be massively damaging in such a small industry.
If they were smart, they probably could have found a way to circumvent the fox approval process on the already produced minis and ship all that to backers. After all, those aren't licensed retail products, they're thank you gifts to their investors.
If they were smart, they never would have put themselves into the position where lying to backers could have been seen as a good choice for them to make. If they were smart, they would not have expended resources producing items which were not yet approved. If they were smart they would have managed their finances in such a way that could have afforded to ship backers what the backers bought and paid for.
chaos0xomega wrote: If they were smart, they probably could have found a way to circumvent the fox approval process on the already produced minis and ship all that to backers. After all, those aren't licensed retail products, they're thank you gifts to their investors.
That doesn't really work, given that those "gifts" were paid for by backers.
Also, you're not an investor. Nor would you want to be. Unless you want to be financially part of the gakshow that this is turning out to be.
I always see an investor has someone who has a financial (ownership) stake with bottom line P&L.
While there are grey areas, backers are preorder customers, and I can't wait to see this covered by stronger judicial statement of applicable consumer law.
Per kickstarters own terms of use, etc. it is *not* a preorder system (and in fact many kickstarters outside of the gaming world offer what I can only describe as meta-rewards. If the kickstarter is to fund a sculpture, for example, then the reward would be something like, having your name on a plaque for example).
When you open your webstore and sell the exact same pledge packages at the exact same prices as you had available during your KS campaign, it becomes very fething difficult to claim it was not a pre-order when offered during the KS campaign...
I'd argue that the second you close down your KS page (whether by error and refusing to bring it back up) or by design, you essentially remove yourself from the protections that KS offers, you've ceased to be a company taking in financial pledges of help to create a product with the possible chance that you'll send those pledgers some cool stuff at some point, and you've moved into the realm of either taking people's money with the promise of goods, or out right theft.
I don't believe their intention has ever been the latter, so as far as I'm concerned, we've all pre-ordered product. End of.
In any event, anybody who got in on the pledge manager outside of the KS environment, and there are many, is a customer who has placed a pre-order.
chaos0xomega wrote: Per kickstarters own terms of use, etc. it is *not* a preorder system (and in fact many kickstarters outside of the gaming world offer what I can only describe as meta-rewards. If the kickstarter is to fund a sculpture, for example, then the reward would be something like, having your name on a plaque for example).
I can write "Trespassers shot on sight", but that won't hold up in any court of law.
chaos0xomega wrote: Per kickstarters own terms of use, etc. it is *not* a preorder system (and in fact many kickstarters outside of the gaming world offer what I can only describe as meta-rewards. If the kickstarter is to fund a sculpture, for example, then the reward would be something like, having your name on a plaque for example).
You're both right and wrong. Sure, that's what kickstarter intends their creators to do. Rewards should be your name in lights or inside the cover of the book, or simply the warm-and-fuzzies of knowing you helped in some way, but we all know that is not how kickstarter is being used, certainly not in the gaming industry, and probably not in many other sectors as well. It's gone from a "We're tiny but we have this great idea, please help if you can" platform to being a presales advertising and marketing platform.
At some point, if it hasn't happened already, there will be a class action lawsuit against a creator who made promises and then reneged on them, the creator will try to hide behind KS terms of use, and they'll lose very very badly indeed in court because a judge will see through it and understand that they did indeed make offer of goods in return for funds, which by any sensible measure, is a sales contract no matter what kickstarter try to call it.
The FTC already went after TDTCTAC, and the Washington AG fined the Altius $55k for their KS being a fraud. These are sales contracts, and no legalese will change that.
The only reason that most failed KS don't get sued is because the defendant is "Judgement Proof" (i.e. bankrupt, with no assets for a court to seize).
OTOH, Prodos and Palladium (hypotehtical examples), do have assets and other IP that can be forcibly seized and liquidated at auction to satisfy a legal judgement.
I also wonder if the resin terrain and the young blood predators will also befall the same fate as the predator tiles? It's odd to me these items have still not been approved at this late date.
Forlorn wrote: I also wonder if the resin terrain and the young blood predators will also befall the same fate as the predator tiles? It's odd to me these items have still not been approved at this late date.
They could be an even bigger issue. I doubt they'll make retail, especially the terrain which is frankly crazy money, so maybe Fox have simply refused to put their stamp on them. We may never see them at all.
Trouble is of course that Prodos have taken the money for them and spent it. Maybe they need to find a way to refund, which of course leads back to those awkward cashflow issues.
So glad I didn't back the KS in the end, looks like a total cluster F***.
I do really really want some alien and predator minis. I just have no interest in the game itself. (for those who have played it wants it like by the way?) I can't help but think Prodos are missing a trick by not getting boxes of these onto store shelves.
I am worried that Prodos will collapse because of this whole mess, before they get the whole range of models from the kickstarter out into the world.
chaos0xomega wrote: Currently Im wondering if I should start taking bets as to whether Palladium or Prodos will collapse first.
It'll be like two drunks staggering home the both topple at the same time, miraculously each falls so as to prop the other up. Prodos will cast the resin bits for Palladium, Palladium will assist Prodos with a shipping hub in the US.
Honestly, I hope someone from one of the companies read that and gets in touch with the other. It might actually save both of them. I, at least, wouldn't mind getting resin Robotech minis instead of plastic (if anything it would probably be an improvement).
Joyboozer wrote: Palladium will assist Prodos with a shipping hub in the US.
Did you make that up for comedy or is it based on real info? Ninja Division were tasked with shipping AvP in the US and indeed were sent boxes before GenCon, though not enough to fulfil all backer orders. We know the rest are being sent out by a "third party" but I don't recall there being any names named. Clearly Ninja have decided they want no part in this mess.
I've found that stupidity is not additive but multipicative. Take the IQ, divide it by 100.. and then multiply all the collective IQ's involved. So in this case it would be 0.65*0.65=0.42 or an IQ of 42 for their collective efforts via a collaboration between the two.
Well, they still know crap about German. Panzerfaüste ... that hurts ... It's Panzerfaust in singular and Panzerfäuste in plural. But hey, as long as they sell stuff, vamp up the backer boxes to their original content again and get it shipped, they can call them whatever they like. I doubt the vamping will happen.
which version are you guys getting though Morikun? The KS one with the blast templates and 13 sheets of card including 32 corridors and the tokens and doors made with same thickness of card as everything else, or the lower quality retail one with less in the box?
I have no problem at all on them working on new products or products for other companies while struggling to get our AvP out of the door, provided they haven't dropped AvP progress in favour of the other products.
I DO however have a big problem with them working on new products or products for other companies while struggling to get our AvP out of the door AND refusing to communicate with us to explain what's going on.
biggusdoggus wrote: which version are you guys getting though Morikun? The KS one with the blast templates and 13 sheets of card including 32 corridors and the tokens and doors made with same thickness of card as everything else, or the lower quality retail one with less in the box?
Two guys of mine who worked on the french version received the KS box... I received many many days after the lower quality retail boxes whithout templates, less corridors etc etc etc...
And now the others french bakers receive the same lower quality retail boxes...
All that... for that. But we could ever say that we received something whereas all of you in the USA that I really don't understand why you don't get anything : what ninja division is doing ? Boxes never received... or never shipped ? What a f....g shame !!!
And now prodos is proud to show that they work for hysteric games... lead by Rob Alderman ?? Really ?? What a very bad joke indeed...
for the record I'm not in the US and I do have my (KS version) box, albeit I'm waiting on a copy of the newer rulebook and a decent pack of cards. I do however have friends who are still waiting on boxed games.
My guess with Ninja is that they've refused to send anything until they are paid (by Prodos of course) the shipping costs. If I were Ninja I'd be demanding that upfront for all 180 or so backers that they have stuff for. That's a lot of money, and we're back to Prodos cashflow (or lack of) again.
If that is the case, good for Ninja Division. They should post pictures of the boxes ready to go and let folks know they will send them a soon as Prodos pays up. Place the blame where it belongs so they don't take heat that rightfully belongs to Prodos.
Which would be supremely ironic given that Prodos stated during the MAS non-payment issue that they only want to do business with customers that pay their bills...
But we don't know the facts, and may never know. I just hope ND ships soon and the 3rd party ships promptly also.
no you're right, we don't know the facts, but sure as hell Prodos isn't falling over themselves to tell us, and so far our track record of guessing what they are up to has been unnervingly accurate. In fact I take their current radio silence as evidence that we're pretty close to the mark (at least with respect to the ks backers receiving retail mess.
I don'[t see a way out of all of this for prodos, at least not one that doesn't involve them shipping backers retail units, and delaying wave 2 for a long time (since they surely don't have enough cash to pay for the manufacture of the packaging let alone actually posting it out to us), and as for wave 3, including the rulebook, well I don't know but it feels like mid next year at best if we're lucky.
THIS IS RUMOUR CONTROL, HERE ARE THE FACTS – SEPTEMBER 24 2015
SEPTEMBER 24, 2015 ADMIN 1 COMMENT
This is rumour control, here are the facts – September 24 2015
Hey there folks, we want to start by apologising for the delay in getting this message to you. Let us also apologise to those of you who have received the wrong version of AvP: The Hunt Begins and would like to rectify this with one of the following options, chosen by yourselves.
1) You keep the version you have received and, upon request, we will send you a set of Predator Ship Board Game Tiles as compensation for free in your Wave 2 shipment.
2) You return the retail copy to our office in the UK and we will send you the Kickstarter version of the Board Game within 7 days of receiving the original.
We are aware of 23 isolated cases where this has occurred and we are aware of the people involved. If we do not receive a message regarding this, we will make the assumption that you do not mind and will take no action. We would urge you to contact us on michal.pawlaczyk@prodos.co.uk about resolving any issue you have had.
As for Wave 2, we will have printed tokens for the Wave 2 models in the studio in the next week or so. After that, we can begin shipping Wave 2 items out to backers. We’d also like to take this opportunity to tell you all that there will be 1 item for each faction made available for pre-order to our wholesale accounts relatively soon, with the intent of release in the middle of October.
Anyway, here are some pictures of a large batch of empty AvP boxes, plus a sneaky peek into the packing boxes for Wave 2, before they go through the die cutter.
We’d also like to remind you that we will be attending Derby World Wargames on October 3rd and 4th. We are doing everything we can to get Kickstarter copies to the show for you to pick up, but it is looking less and less likely that his will be the case. We are happy to supply you with a retail copy instead; but would of course rather get you the product you deserve.
Once again, many thanks to you all.
Prodos Games LTD
So evidently wave 2 exists? and theyre close to shipping it, somehow? Despite the fact that a not insignificant number of people have yet to receive wave 1?
Oh, and they'll give you an option of trading in your retail box for a kickstarter box if you pledged, or theyll send you free predator tiles free
They did not seem to address WHAT makes up the KS version. The posts/emails from Jarek seem to clearly say the flamer/acid templates are no longer included and the quality of the card stock will now be the thinner retail stuff, and the cards will come wrapped in rubber bands. It just all comes in the bigger KS box.
I'd say at this stage if wave 2 is close to shipping they will hold off and do a combined shipping for wave1 and 2 to save on shipping costs so don't expect many units to get shipped in the next few weeks
I just asked some questions on the blog post. My comments are 'awaiting moderation'. It will be interesting to see if they are accepted. I was not rude, just asking for clarification as to what the KS version encompasses at this point.
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Can you clarify what is currently meant by KS version?
Does it include the flamer/acid templates? Are the components the thicker card stock (tiles AND tokens)? Are the cards boxed up nicely? Do we get the original allocation of tiles or the lesser number you’ve recently been shipping?
You should also ask WHO PAYS to ship the incorrect boxes back to Prodos as they don't specify. I'd be very wary of paying for the international shipping for a heavy box yourself to have an unreliable and dishonest company like Prodos "pay you tuesday for a hamburger today".
So evidently wave 2 exists? and theyre close to shipping it, somehow? Despite the fact that a not insignificant number of people have yet to receive wave 1?
Oh, and they'll give you an option of trading in your retail box for a kickstarter box if you pledged, or theyll send you free predator tiles free
Another important question is exactly WHOM they're close to shipping it to given how this campaign has been run. Will it be going out MULTIPLE times to retailers across the globe while backers wait months to get what they paid for years earlier than those retailers? At this point, no detail no matter how minute or mundane should be left vague.
angelofvengeance wrote: I have today received the AvP boxed game... the retail version that is. For feth's sake.
Was it in the retail box or the KS box?
You're a lucky guy, one of only 23 folks shipped the wrong thing and you'll get free Predator tiles.
Woo Hoo.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And my comment/question is STILL awaiting moderation though another one was posted.
Retail box.
Sending it back for my Kickstarter copy. Don't care about the Predator tiles. Also, ICYMI here's the Friday update.
This is rumour control, here are the facts – September 24 2015
Hey there folks, we want to start by apologising for the delay in getting this message to you. Let us also apologise to those of you who have received the wrong version of AvP: The Hunt Begins and would like to rectify this with one of the following options, chosen by yourselves.
1) You keep the version you have received and, upon request, we will send you a set of Predator Ship Board Game Tiles as compensation for free in your Wave 2 shipment.
2) You return the retail copy to our office in the UK and we will send you the Kickstarter version of the Board Game within 7 days of receiving the original.
We are aware of 23 isolated cases where this has occurred and we are aware of the people involved. If we do not receive a message regarding this, we will make the assumption that you do not mind and will take no action. We would urge you to contact us on michal.pawlaczyk@prodos.co.uk about resolving any issue you have had.
As for Wave 2, we will have printed tokens for the Wave 2 models in the studio in the next week or so. After that, we can begin shipping Wave 2 items out to backers. We’d also like to take this opportunity to tell you all that there will be 1 item for each faction made available for pre-order to our wholesale accounts relatively soon, with the intent of release in the middle of October.
Anyway, here are some pictures of a large batch of empty AvP boxes, plus a sneaky peek into the packing boxes for Wave 2, before they go through the die cutter.
n815e wrote: Ship it back to them at your own expense for their mistake?
I'm just waiting to hear from Michal. Cause I certainly hope this isn't the case... It will cost me up to £45 to send it back if it is. In which case: Go feth yourselves Prodos.
n815e wrote: Ship it back to them at your own expense for their mistake?
How does that square with US / British / (whereever) Consumer Law if someone ships something other than as originally ordered?
My understanding is that they are still obliged to send what was ordered. As for the incorrect product, that would normally be taken back under the shipper's dime, not the buyer's.
Decided to emal Ninja Division to find out from them directly if they actually did receive the games and their status. Received replies back from John Cadice and Anthony Boyd, and was also directed to this official statement from September 11th (that I don't remember Prodos mentioning):
Published by deke, on September 11, 2015. Filed under Alien vs Predator.
avp2
Ninja Division Publishing is happy to announce that US shipping for fulfillment of the Alien v Predator Kickstarter has begun. Ninja Division has received approximately 180 copies to our local warehouse. Shipment of these copies is ongoing and should be complete within a week.
The remaining quantity needed to complete the fulfillment is currently on a ship heading to the US. Prodos has informed us that it is anticipated it to reach port within 2 – 3 weeks.
In agreement with Prodos Games, a third party fulfillment center will be handling the final fulfillment. The fulfillment center is located in the port city, allowing the elimination of the travel time needed to transport the product to Ninja Division’s warehouse in Idaho.
Once Ninja Division has completed fulfillment of the stock we have on hand, Prodos will coordinate with the third party fulfillment center to ensure delivery of the final items.
Ninja Division and Prodos Games would like to thank backers for their patience as fulfillment begins.
For inquiries regarding your order,
Contact: Anthony Boyd
Ninja Division Publishing
Phone: 208.286.4135
info@sodapopminiatures.com www.ninjadivision.com
Glad they do have most of the games. Not so glad they don't have all of them. Yikes.
What's the point of including "For inquiries regarding your order, Contact: Anthony Boyd" if it just results in an endless loop like a bad BASIC program where they refer you back to the post you got the contact info from?
So ninjadiv mailed out 180 kickstarter boxes to US backers 2 weeks ago? Guess Im not getting my pledge for another month at lwast until they figure out this 3rd party thing.
chaos0xomega wrote: So ninjadiv mailed out 180 kickstarter boxes to US backers 2 weeks ago? Guess Im not getting my pledge for another month at lwast until they figure out this 3rd party thing.
they may have done, but we've not heard any reports of it arriving in the USA, so either they've found 180 backers who are keeping quiet, or it didn't happen. My guess is the latter because Ninja will want payment from Prodos for the postage upfront (or they will if they have any brains), and we all know Prodos are Larry Flint.
From ND's notice, the sets were sent from the UK on 9/11, with 2-3 weeks to *arrive* at their warehouse, so it sounds like they should *start* shipping between now and next week.
A full update was published yesterday (note that even if you backed for multiple copies ND are only sending 1 to allow them to get the most backers something, your other copies will be coming via prodos 3rd party fulfilment)
AvP US Kickstarter Fullfillment Shipping
Published by deke, on September 25, 2015. Filed under Alien vs Predator News.
AvP Shipments 1
Ninja Division Publishing has completed packing of our entire stock of approximately 180 copies of Alien v Predator. The packages were picked up today, September 25th. If your ZIP code is between 77042 and 99645, you should be receiving your copy soon! In order to make sure that as many people as possible can start enjoying the game we sent one copy to each backer. If you ordered multiple copies your additional copies will be coming with the remaining quantities as detailed below.
As stated in our previous update, the remaining quantity needed to complete the fulfillment is currently on a ship heading to the US. In agreement with Prodos Games, a third party fulfillment center will be handling the final fulfillment. The fulfillment center is located in the port city, allowing the elimination of the travel time needed to transport the product to Ninja Division’s warehouse in Idaho. Prodos will coordinate with the third party fulfillment center and ensure delivery of the final items.
For further inquiries regarding your Kickstarter Pledges, •Contact: Prodos Games •+441926431831 •service@prodos.co.uk •www.prodosgames.com
Doesn't appear to be any KS copies there. Look to be all retail copies. This KS campaign is such a joke. I can't imagine how much it'd cost you guys in the US and Canada to ship a 6KG box back to Prodos HQ in the UK.
based on the depth of those parcels, they are KS spec boxes.
of course we don't know what's inside them, and more's the point we don't know what the 400+ boxes still in transit are (my money is they'll be the retail spec)
Ironically this is an update I've cross posted back to Prodos' forum on facebook, since they don't seem to want to share this progress with the backers.
Automatically Appended Next Post: and the KS box doesn't weigh 6Kg, never did. It's more like 4.6 Kg. (retail is a kilo lighter still)
biggusdoggus wrote: based on the depth of those parcels, they are KS spec boxes.
of course we don't know what's inside them, and more's the point we don't know what the 400+ boxes still in transit are (my money is they'll be the retail spec)
Ironically this is an update I've cross posted back to Prodos' forum on facebook, since they don't seem to want to share this progress with the backers.
Automatically Appended Next Post: and the KS box doesn't weigh 6Kg, never did. It's more like 4.6 Kg. (retail is a kilo lighter still)
Having received the box yesterday I have to disagree with you. It even said it on the shipping label.
I suggest you go put yours on some scales. The KS box definitely doesn't weigh 6Kg. It might have that on the shipping label, but it's not at all uncommon for shipping labels to state weights heavier than the contents.
Automatically Appended Next Post: and if you got yours yesterday, I'd be surprised if you even got a KS spec anyway.
Still haven't heard anything here in Canada. I just wish I had some idea of what is truly going on. That last update (read here in the cesspool) didn't even mention Canada. Maybe I'll try emailing Prodos directly and see if I can get an answer of some sort. I was hoping ND would be handling Canada as well. The news over this last week is very disheartening to say the least. Congrats to those that have received their shipping notice. If I hear anything I will post it here.
I thought Ninja (and by inference, this 3rd party distributor, whoever they are, were shipping to all backers across the American Continent, and therefore by definition, Canada as well as all points below the USA. They've obviously chosen to prioritise US addresses, which would suggest that your box is on a boat still (or stuck in customs perhaps by now).
Oh for feths sake, the pledge manager is open again, and now they've only just realised they didn't actually send out an update. It will also reopen October 2. fething why? Seriously.
Prodos, you fething suck. Surely it must be obvious now even to your selves.
I'd recommend checking your address carefully, details in mine mysteriously changed.
"65% of the KS has shipped. We stopped last week due to the recall from the market. " no explanation of what the feth this means, I'm guessing it's when they realised they were fething up with retail/ Kickstarter copies.
"We are working on our marketing plan for Wave 2, with Fox right now, hence the lack of photos of Wave 2 from us. You are free and welcome to share any you can find on the internet or using a Wayback machine. We cannot and will not stop you. "
What the feth does this mean? They are about to send out wave two, unapproved?
Seriously, I'm completely gak faced, I hope my post makes more sense then their update.
A few years ago the idea of AvP was formed under a bridge, by 4 trolls...
Nothing was shipped from Ninja as they were waiting for the complete shipment. Now that has changed and they are shipping what they have as of the 25th Ninja release. I'm wondering who this 3rd party undisclosed party is that will supposedly be shipping the remaining US boxes. And if those boxes received are the retail boxes they that PRODOS thought they'd quietly send everyone this could literally be endless.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Joyboozer wrote: Oh for feths sake, the pledge manager is open again, and now they've only just realised they didn't actually send out an update. It will also reopen October 2. fething why? Seriously.
Prodos, you fething suck. Surely it must be obvious now even to your selves.
I'd recommend checking your address carefully, details in mine mysteriously changed.
"65% of the KS has shipped. We stopped last week due to the recall from the market. " no explanation of what the feth this means, I'm guessing it's when they realised they were fething up with retail/ Kickstarter copies.
"We are working on our marketing plan for Wave 2, with Fox right now, hence the lack of photos of Wave 2 from us. You are free and welcome to share any you can find on the internet or using a Wayback machine. We cannot and will not stop you. "
What the feth does this mean? They are about to send out wave two, unapproved?
Seriously, I'm completely gak faced, I hope my post makes more sense then their update.
A few years ago the idea of AvP was formed under a bridge, by 4 trolls...
And I hope they reopen the pledge manager so I can drop the Wargame rulebook which may never see the light of day at this point. Might as well use the funds for minis I may never get instead.
Is there any way to stop receiving their private messages on Kickstarter? Thankfully, I had second thoughts right after this ended and sold my pledge, so I don't need to be updated via private message from them...
RiTides wrote: Is there any way to stop receiving their private messages on Kickstarter? Thankfully, I had second thoughts right after this ended and sold my pledge, so I don't need to be updated via private message from them...
I thought about that... but it seems unfair since I backed the project. Just wondering if there was a way to opt out of private messages from a campaign like there is to opt out of updates... but probably not.
RiTides wrote: I thought about that... but it seems unfair since I backed the project. Just wondering if there was a way to opt out of private messages from a campaign like there is to opt out of updates... but probably not.
RiTides wrote: I thought about that... but it seems unfair since I backed the project. Just wondering if there was a way to opt out of private messages from a campaign like there is to opt out of updates... but probably not.
It's not like they send out many updates.
To be fair, they've picked up the pace a bit with the updates. We're getting more than we did when they went dark during the FOX bull gak.
Well my FLGS gave me store credit for the copy I ordered and is now about a month overdue, and I just spent it on Adeptus Mechanicus and Necrons (they didn't have any Tyranids in stock...).
All I really wanted was the minis themselves - namely the aliens and marines, guess I'll pick them up on e-bay or look for older versions/knock-offs at this point.
So I had an email from Michal today- I suspect there's going to be more disgruntled backers...
I will be returning my retail copy of AvP to Prodos.. at my own expense. So not only have Prodos taken my 125 bucks of my money. I now have to pay for their failure to deliver the correct items. Good luck to anyone backing Panzerfauste... Christ.
@angelofvengence was your copy from a kickstarter pledge or through the pledge manager. If through the pledge manager you should be covered by the same rights as a retail purchase.
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: @angelofvengence was your copy from a kickstarter pledge or through the pledge manager. If through the pledge manager you should be covered by the same rights as a retail purchase.
I've asked Jarek and Michal for the pred tiles because I've already built my stalkers...
Michal answered me :
" I`ve noted the fact about Predator Tiles."
The french printable version is still not available anyway...
And to be honest, I wouldn't pay one € more to re-send my 4,5 kg retail box in the Uk or Poland to see it shipped to a retailer or a lambda customer while I would be obliged to wait for an hypothetic KS version.
"One yours is better than two you'll have" as we said in France (sorry for the bad translation) and I can count on a box now...Whereas a lot of backers. All this project is a f...g mess indeed...
And by now, I've received Rise of the Kage and Blood Rage. Two projects that started after AvP and delivered on time in full.
I wonder if the guys from Prodos can even manage their morning coffee without messing that up.
angelofvengeance wrote: So I had an email from Michal today- I suspect there's going to be more disgruntled backers...
I will be returning my retail copy of AvP to Prodos.. at my own expense. So not only have Prodos taken my 125 bucks of my money. I now have to pay for their failure to deliver the correct items. Good luck to anyone backing Panzerfauste... Christ.
That's the first thing I thought (and posted) when I saw the "offer" to return and replace the items. That has to run afoul of consumer protection laws regarding faulty products.
Remember if you are in the UK check consumer advice sites and legislation on distance selling. For UK backers we have some of the best consumer protections.
These should cover the legal position regarding costs for returns etc.
Don't be side lined by the Kickstarter T&C's or other "it's not a shop" malarkey, it's covered by the distance selling regs.
As Prodos apparently keep an eye on this, my suggestion would be for them to have a look at the UK regs as I'd suggest they could fall foul of them if they are not careful.
Ninja Division wrote:AvP US Kickstarter Fullfillment Shipping
Published by deke, on September 25, 2015. Filed under Alien vs Predator News.
Ninja Division Publishing has completed packing of our entire stock of approximately 180 copies of Alien v Predator. The packages were picked up today, September 25th. If your ZIP code is between 77042 and 99645, you should be receiving your copy soon! In order to make sure that as many people as possible can start enjoying the game we sent one copy to each backer. If you ordered multiple copies your additional copies will be coming with the remaining quantities as detailed below.
As stated in our previous update, the remaining quantity needed to complete the fulfillment is currently on a ship heading to the US. In agreement with Prodos Games, a third party fulfillment center will be handling the final fulfillment. The fulfillment center is located in the port city, allowing the elimination of the travel time needed to transport the product to Ninja Division’s warehouse in Idaho. Prodos will coordinate with the third party fulfillment center and ensure delivery of the final items.
For further inquiries regarding your Kickstarter Pledges,
Just an FYI for those who might be doing what I did.
I sold 3 preds for $30 & $17 postage (to Germany), then another 3 preds for $30 & free postage (USA). (for some reason my set had 3 baggies of preds, so I kept one set of 3 for myself).
I sold the 99% complete boxed game - minus the minis - for $50 & it cost $19 to mail ground (sold in USA/mailed to USA)...
Not fetching the prices I had thought they would.
There are sites selling the complete game on the web for $100 now.....
Well, it gets sort of complicated by now ...
There's the original KS Version, the Retail Version, the new KS Version. Is there even a new Retail Version?
I lost track somewhere along the way ...
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: @angelofvengence was your copy from a kickstarter pledge or through the pledge manager. If through the pledge manager you should be covered by the same rights as a retail purchase.
Kickstarter campaign sadly.
Dunno about the UK, but, in the USA, you can always appeal to the highest order -- your credit card company.
(Also, in the USA, KS "rewards" are seen as retail purchases, so it doesn't matter if you got the stuff through KS or not. Good luck!)
Way too late for my credit card company to help out. I tried several months ago, basically any charge over 6 month old and you're screwed. You may be able to get a year, but you have to fight hard, and even with that this charge was too old.
