I dunno where the assumption our melee will be worse comes from.

AP1 on choppas, extra attack, str, advance and charge on waagh, sustained hits with the waaagh tribe rule, attack on death stratagem, 1+ to hit and wound buff from ghaz and an increase on the boyz save to boot. Seems like a lot of potential and there's more buffs to be seen yet.

Snaggas went up in save, we don't know that for Boyz yet.

cody.d. wrote:
I dunno where the assumption our melee will be worse comes from.

AP1 on choppas, extra attack, str, advance and charge on waagh, sustained hits with the waaagh tribe rule, attack on death stratagem, 1+ to hit and wound buff from ghaz and an increase on the boyz save to boot. Seems like a lot of potential and there's more buffs to be seen yet.

Our melee stayed basically unchanged from what we've seen from infantry, just the nerfs to engagement range and not having the +1 str on the charge to go along with sus hits like we do with current goffs. On the flip side our big things like stompa and garg squig got a lot better in melee so if I'd guess might just be a bit of shift of what we use for our melee threats. Curious how the killrigs will be now after seeing the garg squig.

 flaming tadpole wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
I dunno where the assumption our melee will be worse comes from.

AP1 on choppas, extra attack, str, advance and charge on waagh, sustained hits with the waaagh tribe rule, attack on death stratagem, 1+ to hit and wound buff from ghaz and an increase on the boyz save to boot. Seems like a lot of potential and there's more buffs to be seen yet.

Our melee stayed basically unchanged from what we've seen from infantry, just the nerfs to engagement range and not having the +1 str on the charge to go along with sus hits like we do with current goffs. On the flip side our big things like stompa and garg squig got a lot better in melee so if I'd guess might just be a bit of shift of what we use for our melee threats. Curious how the killrigs will be now after seeing the garg squig.

Im curious about everything really. I dont feel any sadness or anger or annoyance with orks atm, i just cant wait to see our remaining stat profiles, and the point costs.

The only thing that makes me sad is that there is nothing buffing ork shooting, as is orks is meant to be a melee only faction and not a versatile one. I have no doubt they will touch upon that when our.. "codex" is dropped, if you can even call it a codex anymore. But those extra rules anyway. Surely that will touch upon that so it doesnt bother me too much. But it would be great if it werent just half our army that got meaningful buffs.


So here is to hope that Ork shooting is also relevant already now.

Im also getting the vibe that you could easily run Zagstruk and Mozzie in the same army now due to loss of actual klans? Thats a pretty good positive for me right there. If mozzie, snikrot and zagstruk keep good profiles, we will have some good characters to field.

Yeah, the main thing that's good about them scrapping the klan keywords and abilities is that you aren't locked out of taking characters in most instances anymore (barring certain detachments I assume that will be later released in our codex), there's been many times I've been interested in taking Grotsnik or Snikrot but I can't warrant an entire detachment dedicated to just them.

Personally, I'm just interested in seeing what else we can bring that's different from the lists we see now in 9th, since it seems like they're trying to promote more combined arms lists compared to before where it was basically just spam best unit X and Y until you win.

 flaming tadpole wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
I dunno where the assumption our melee will be worse comes from.

AP1 on choppas, extra attack, str, advance and charge on waagh, sustained hits with the waaagh tribe rule, attack on death stratagem, 1+ to hit and wound buff from ghaz and an increase on the boyz save to boot. Seems like a lot of potential and there's more buffs to be seen yet.

Our melee stayed basically unchanged from what we've seen from infantry, just the nerfs to engagement range and not having the +1 str on the charge to go along with sus hits like we do with current goffs. On the flip side our big things like stompa and garg squig got a lot better in melee so if I'd guess might just be a bit of shift of what we use for our melee threats. Curious how the killrigs will be now after seeing the garg squig.

Worse, basically the same. Come on ya grot, make up your mind!

But we've only seen a slice of what orks have, there could very well be a detachment rule that provides significant buffs to shooting. Or perhaps the other meks will offer good benifits to the various dakka platforms.

Though, yes first and foremost I would rather us be a combat army with some shooting support than a shooting army with some combat.

.

Beardedragon wrote:
The only thing that makes me sad is that there is nothing buffing ork shooting

Poor Mek. Everyone keeps forgetting him.

Doubt we´ll get some infantry specific boosts though

I have assembled and primed my old 5th edition Mek specifically because of this rule!

 Scactha wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
The only thing that makes me sad is that there is nothing buffing ork shooting

Poor Mek. Everyone keeps forgetting him.

Doubt we´ll get some infantry specific boosts though

Yea im not gonna call buffs for shooting, because a single mek character gives +1 to hit for shooting. Its nice and all.

Im talking about actual army wide buffs or a waaagh actually being helpful for shooting.

 Bonde wrote:
I have assembled and primed my old 5th edition Mek specifically because of this rule!

Ah, great that you reminded me - I have an ancient "Big Mek with KMB" model lying broken in my bitz box. Time to glue his arms back on, he finally has a reason to exist.

In other news, GT is banning Aeldari..

I am actually curious for our anti-vehicle/monster threats.

Boy's and support cause i am not into beast snagga

Squig boys/warbikers/storm boyz... rigs/buggies/flyers/walkers and nobz meganobz... not sure i care for the wagon but i am looking at trukks maybe

I am not seeing myself playing any of the big boys any time soon.. so i am paying attention how they do in tournaments

Rest i am more fluff player, i do enjoy when me boys know how to use their legs, but footslogging wont work this edition too.

Forceride wrote:
In other news, GT is banning Aeldari..

I am actually curious for our anti-vehicle/monster threats.

Boy's and support cause i am not into beast snagga

Squig boys/warbikers/storm boyz... rigs/buggies/flyers/walkers and nobz meganobz... not sure i care for the wagon but i am looking at trukks maybe

I am not seeing myself playing any of the big boys any time soon.. so i am paying attention how they do in tournaments

Rest i am more fluff player, i do enjoy when me boys know how to use their legs, but footslogging wont work this edition too.

I imagine squighogs will be passable against light vehicles, and Smasha Squigs will probably do a decent amount of MWs so they'll likely be okay at anti-everything duties to a small extent.

In terms of melee we're likely looking at Warbosses, Squigbosses, Dreads and massed PKs to deal with vehicles and monsters, excluding super heavy options. That or the unfortunate scenario of having to grind through vehicles with massed choppas.

Ranged; I'd imagine shokk attack guns, mek guns and Wazboms will be the big hitters unless gunwagons suddenly aren't garbage. The main decider will be whether rokkits are usable.

Looking at how both Eldar and Imperial missile launchers are S9 AP-2 D6 damage, I assume ours will be S9 AP-2 3 damage a pop. Which isn't great, but it'll largely depend on if our weapons are still Heavy D3. My bigger concern if they are heavy weapons is that they'll make them BS6+ base to try and make us stay still to use to get back to our OG BS.

Personally, I'd like it for it to be Assault D3, but that isn't probable given how GW have been handling most anti-tank weapons. I'm more curious to see if Killsaws are just chainfists with twinlinked when you have a pair or if we get something different since they've always just kind of been a power klaw with more AP but variable damage.

Gosh, wouldn't it be amazing if Rokkits stayed BS5+ with heavy, just imagine that level of accuracy

cody.d. wrote:

 flaming tadpole wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
I dunno where the assumption our melee will be worse comes from.

AP1 on choppas, extra attack, str, advance and charge on waagh, sustained hits with the waaagh tribe rule, attack on death stratagem, 1+ to hit and wound buff from ghaz and an increase on the boyz save to boot. Seems like a lot of potential and there's more buffs to be seen yet.

Our melee stayed basically unchanged from what we've seen from infantry, just the nerfs to engagement range and not having the +1 str on the charge to go along with sus hits like we do with current goffs. On the flip side our big things like stompa and garg squig got a lot better in melee so if I'd guess might just be a bit of shift of what we use for our melee threats. Curious how the killrigs will be now after seeing the garg squig.

Worse, basically the same. Come on ya grot, make up your mind!

But we've only seen a slice of what orks have, there could very well be a detachment rule that provides significant buffs to shooting. Or perhaps the other meks will offer good benifits to the various dakka platforms.

Though, yes first and foremost I would rather us be a combat army with some shooting support than a shooting army with some combat.

Well same when others been going down isn't thaj bad thing.

As for other det's that's with codex much later. Index comes with 1 already known.

+1 BS on BS5 is literally a 50% increase to shooting output.

It's double on BS6.

I'm gonna say the Mek is probably what you should be looking at.

 Grimskul wrote:
Yeah, the main thing that's good about them scrapping the klan keywords and abilities is that you aren't locked out of taking characters in most instances anymore (barring certain detachments I assume that will be later released in our codex), there's been many times I've been interested in taking Grotsnik or Snikrot but I can't warrant an entire detachment dedicated to just them.

Personally, I'm just interested in seeing what else we can bring that's different from the lists we see now in 9th, since it seems like they're trying to promote more combined arms lists compared to before where it was basically just spam best unit X and Y until you win.

ya same I’m stoked to be able to play whatever mashup of characters I want.

Also nids be looking kinda scary, seems like half our army will be battleshocked at all times against them lol. Good to see old one eye finally get a decent data sheet though, old timer has had it rough for a while.

Random thoughts after reading the nid index:

- We might get lucky and have shoota boyz and choppa boyz as separate datasheets with separate abilities
- Leaders are very restricted in what they can join. I expect all former upgrade characters to go back to being locked to their respective squads.
- Not all leaders match their entourage's toughness, some are explicitly made in a way that they can operate both with and without a unit (looking at you, wartrike)
- Looking at nobz, I doubt anything but klaw, killsaw, big choppa and choppa will survive as options.
- The heavy weapon type is used very sparingly, usually only when they want to explicitly encourage units to remain stationary. I wouldn't expect it outside of main guns on vehicles and flash gits. Lootas are a big maybe.
- Tellyporta could come back as an enhancement
- After seeing so many units having their maximum size reduced, I'm almost certain that boyz will be reduced to 20.
- All the small stuff is battleline despite the preview. It's looking good for gretchin.

 Jidmah wrote:
Random thoughts after reading the nid index:

- We might get lucky and have shoota boyz and choppa boyz as separate datasheets with separate abilities
- Leaders are very restricted in what they can join. I expect all former upgrade characters to go back to being locked to their respective squads.
- Not all leaders match their entourage's toughness, some are explicitly made in a way that they can operate both with and without a unit (looking at you, wartrike)
- Looking at nobz, I doubt anything but klaw, killsaw, big choppa and choppa will survive as options.
- The heavy weapon type is used very sparingly, usually only when they want to explicitly encourage units to remain stationary. I wouldn't expect it outside of main guns on vehicles and flash gits. Lootas are a big maybe.
- Tellyporta could come back as an enhancement
- After seeing so many units having their maximum size reduced, I'm almost certain that boyz will be reduced to 20.
- All the small stuff is battleline despite the preview. It's looking good for gretchin.

Yeah, poor Tyranid Warriors got absolutely shredded in terms of their weapon options, particularly the CC variant.

For Nobz and Meganobz, I'm very, very curious to see what happens to our Kombi-Weapons, because based on what happened to SM and their combi weapons, they no longer have multiple profiles but just one type with devastating wounds and anti-infantry 4+. I'm unsure if we'll follow the exact same formatting when it comes to consolidating our kombi-weapons. If so, I think we'll definitely be missing our kombi skorchas since they were a way around our poor BS.

I'm also interested to see if Nobz have a more relevant version of "Crackin' Eads" or if they just get an offensive buff now instead.

A week away till we get our index right? Damn I'm curious to see what we get. The powerful and janky opportunities it gives us. Will dreadmob be a thing? It's probably the ork archetype I'm most interested in running, just cause I'd adore an excuse to get more copies of the dread kit and mess around with all it's options.

Same with mek conversions. You can do a lot with a nob body and some bitz.

Okay, so a glance at the index has raised a worry. So far only one detachment rule, I'm assuming the codex will bring more but that means it's exploding 6s in combat only for a while.

cody.d. wrote:
A week away till we get our index right? Damn I'm curious to see what we get. The powerful and janky opportunities it gives us. Will dreadmob be a thing? It's probably the ork archetype I'm most interested in running, just cause I'd adore an excuse to get more copies of the dread kit and mess around with all it's options.

Same with mek conversions. You can do a lot with a nob body and some bitz.

Okay, so a glance at the index has raised a worry. So far only one detachment rule, I'm assuming the codex will bring more but that means it's exploding 6s in combat only for a while.

Advance and charge for everything definitely makes Dred Mob more viable than last edition, since it won't just be the 5+ invuln and +1A that we'll benefit from now.

The bigger question will be if the KFF is actually worth taking and can make an impact on protection that lasts beyond just 1 turn. Meks seem to be giving decent buffs now, so having one hide behind a Morkanaut seems ideal, but the rest is contingent on points and how GW makes up for the lack of ramshackle since I presume that as a rule will be gone since most -1D abilities are locked behind strats now. Killa Kanz should be T7 if Sentinels are anything to go by and I presume Deff Dreads are T9. Hopefully that means Gork/Mork are T12 at the very least.

 Jidmah wrote:

- Looking at nobz, I doubt anything but klaw, killsaw, big choppa and choppa will survive as options.

May I ask why? The box (and the configurations featured on the box) show Kombi weapons, and it includes the ammo grot.

I'd imagine kombi weapons will be made into one profile? I could also see it being changed to choppa, nob weapons and klaw only.

thatd be weird even for GW to drop kombi weapons for nobz.
The kit has several kombi weapons in it. And theyre more commonly shown with a kombi weapon than a melee weapon.

 TedNugent wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

- Looking at nobz, I doubt anything but klaw, killsaw, big choppa and choppa will survive as options.

May I ask why? The box (and the configurations featured on the box) show Kombi weapons, and it includes the ammo grot.

I have no idea why. Essentially GW is reducing melee option back to how it was in 5th. Plague marines, warriors and quite a few other nob-like units suffered the same fate.

I agree that the fate of our kombi-weapons is unclear, especially since we don't really suffer from the same model problems that marines do. However, GW tends to use a sledge hammer instead of a scalpel for these kinds of problems, so I wouldn't be too surprised if they just all get rolled into "Kustom shoota [Anti-Infantry 4+][Devastating Wounds][Rapidfire1]". Not happy, but also not surprised.

 Grimskul wrote:

Yeah, poor Tyranid Warriors got absolutely shredded in terms of their weapon options, particularly the CC variant.

For Nobz and Meganobz, I'm very, very curious to see what happens to our Kombi-Weapons, because based on what happened to SM and their combi weapons, they no longer have multiple profiles but just one type with devastating wounds and anti-infantry 4+. I'm unsure if we'll follow the exact same formatting when it comes to consolidating our kombi-weapons. If so, I think we'll definitely be missing our kombi skorchas since they were a way around our poor BS.

I'm also interested to see if Nobz have a more relevant version of "Crackin' Eads" or if they just get an offensive buff now instead.

I wouldn't be surprised if our Kombis get almost identical rules to Combis in the Index, which is unfortunate since it doesn't help our chance to hit in the slightest, but they may balance that by making it free wargear options for WarBoss and Elites.

A thread in general actually made me realize something in regards to how fighting works.

Leaders are now an actual members of their units, which make the whole charge+pile in mechanic much more smoother as you no longer need to leave alleys for your characters or even risk charging them in unsupported.

In addition, you really want leaders with a large base like our warbosses or Thrakka to get into base to base, as their bigger bases allow more models to get in b2b with them, effectively increasing the number of models which can fight from the second rank. Toying around with my MANz and Thrakka, it seems like a unit of MANz with Thrakka will actually have more MANz being able to strike in most scenarios than a unit without Thrakka. Very interesting.

 Jidmah wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

- Looking at nobz, I doubt anything but klaw, killsaw, big choppa and choppa will survive as options.

May I ask why? The box (and the configurations featured on the box) show Kombi weapons, and it includes the ammo grot.

I have no idea why. Essentially GW is reducing melee option back to how it was in 5th. Plague marines, warriors and quite a few other nob-like units suffered the same fate.

I agree that the fate of our kombi-weapons is unclear, especially since we don't really suffer from the same model problems that marines do. However, GW tends to use a sledge hammer instead of a scalpel for these kinds of problems, so I wouldn't be too surprised if they just all get rolled into "Kustom shoota [Anti-Infantry 4+][Devastating Wounds][Rapidfire1]". Not happy, but also not surprised.

I can totally see them reducing the Kombis to only 2/5 nobz because of what's in the box, but not killing them outright.
Also let's hope they're "generous" and let us keep all the nob options on boyz nobz as well and not restrict these to klaw/ big choppa.

Well I can definitely see the power stabba being axed.

Otherwise, we kind of have some nice variety in our melee weapons for Nobz.

Chainsword equivalent - Choppa
Power Weapon equivalent - Big Choppa
Power Fist equivalent - PK
Chain Fist equivalent - KS

But yeah, Kombi weapons will definitely get smushed together into a "not quite as good as previous" option.

I am surprised is that people haven't noticed that in fight phase you can now attack any unit that is engagement range despite not having charged it.

In other words you can charge one unit and with charge movement + pile in atack another unit if it is in proximity, your no longer locked to attack charged targets or that heroically intervened.

This makes charges more dependable if charging into 2 units since you just need to charge the closest.

Charge is now = movement + fight first
pile in only requires 1 model for base contact rest move normally.

But hey i am still reading the rules.

Btw pistols on vehicles can be shot in conjunction with other weapons in vehicles, so our buggies and defkoptas can use them now.

Those are very interesting changes, I know for a while they were trying to steer clear of making multi-charges easier. Perhaps the design intent changed for 10e.

Forceride wrote:
I am surprised is that people haven't noticed that in fight phase you can now attack any unit that is engagement range despite not having charged it.

In other words you can charge one unit and with charge movement + pile in atack another unit if it is in proximity, your no longer locked to attack charged targets or that heroically intervened.

This makes charges more dependable if charging into 2 units since you just need to charge the closest.

Charge is now = movement + fight first
pile in only requires 1 model for base contact rest move normally.

But hey i am still reading the rules.

Btw pistols on vehicles can be shot in conjunction with other weapons in vehicles, so our buggies and defkoptas can use them now.

Yes but charge and pile in changes make it hard. If model can get to b2b with unit it charged has to. Otherwise has to end closer to it than started. Similarly pile in has to go toward nearest and into b2b if possible(every model).

If units aren't that close it likely is easier said than done.

Yes 1 model, not the entire unit, that means other's can ignore what it states, you need something in btb in pile in, during the charge is only if possible, so charges are normal, if you have move leave one in btb and follow the rest with what ever you want. It ain't different from now, the only change is at least 1 model in base contact. Also nothing in the rules you can't move units in fight phase if in btb so far. Haven't read all yet.

Each time a model makes a Pile-in move, it must end that
move closer to the closest enemy model. If it can also end that
move in base-to-base contact with one or more enemy models
while still satisfying all of the conditions above, it must do so.

You saying 2nd, 3rd etc models aren't models making a move?

Each time model makes a pile in move...

...if it can also end that move in b2b...it must do so.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
And no you can"t pile in if you are already b2b(where charge has to go if possible).

If you haven"t read all(like paragraph startlng with 1. PILE IN) maybe not make such claims?

you can move each model in that unit
that is not already in base-to-base contact with an enemy model
up to 3" - this is a Pile-in move.

Literally first phrase in paragraph dealing with pile ins...

You then make a Charge roll for the charging unit by rolling 2D6. The result is the maximum number of inches each model in that unit can be moved if a Charge move is possible. For a Charge move to be possible, the Charge roll must be sufficient to enable the charging unit to end that move

■ Within Engagement Range of every unit that you selected as a target of the charge.
■ Without moving within Engagement Range of any enemy units that were not a target of the charge.
■ In Unit Coherency.

If any of these conditions cannot be met, the charge fails and no models in the charging unit move this phase. Otherwise, the charge is successful and the models in the charging unit make a Charge move – move each model a distance in inches up to the result of the Charge roll. When doing so, each model in the charging unit must end its Charge move closer to one of the units selected as a target of its charge. If you can also move a charging model so that it ends its Charge move in base-to-base contact with one or more enemy models while still enabling the charging unit to end its move satisfying all of the conditions above, you must do so. The controlling player chooses the order in which to move their models.

When a unit Piles In, you can move each model in that unit that is not already in base-to-base contact with an enemy model up to 3" – this is a Pile-in move. For a Pile In to be possible, a unit must be able to end these moves within Engagement Range of one or more enemy units and in Unit Coherency. If these conditions cannot be met, no models in the unit can
make Pile-in moves this phase and you progress to making melee attacks with that unit. Otherwise, the unit can make Pile-in moves. Each time a model makes a Pile-in move, it must end that move closer to the closest enemy model.If it can also end that move in base-to-base contact with one or more enemy models while still satisfying all of the conditions above, it must do so. The controlling player chooses the order in which to move their models.

Charge mentions that you move in btb if possible but not required, it mentions the model when doing said move, you can manipulate this in your favor it's still movement, yuo can move that either the least amun or the largest amount end in btb, it's up to you, you rolled the dice, the charge is a move, your able to fiddle, it has ample way to work with.

While yes you can't move the ones in btb, i was mentioning the rest of the unit models, we already do this in 9th, what i am mentioning is you can manipulate your movement to end closer to another unit gaining movement, there is a requirement for btb but that's the same instance in the charge if you use melee units now in 9th units in base contact already don't move.

So it is possible to finish a charge where there are no models in btb, because that's not a condition, but as soon as you pile in, the first line will move into btb, the second line and third will move as well to get in engagement and btb range. You will gain move with these interaction sling shooting you into another unit if possible

I think we are just talking about different things...

But this is neither here or there what i mentioned, what i did mentioned is that in fight phase your eligible to attack any enemy unit that you are in engagement range, all you get out of the charge and pile ins is extra movement.

PS.: i transcribed both rules and highlighted what i am talking about.
PSS.: Mobile phone writing while walking sucks i noticed my previous post mess

If there is another unit within 3" you can still move in b2b with them instead of the target you charged, which is not super difficult to set up with larger mobs or when units gather around models with auras.

In addition, I would ask you to watch your tone tneva. If you can't have a civil discussion about rules, please don't post here at all.

Forceride wrote:
If you can also move a charging model so that it ends its Charge move in base-to-base contact with one or more enemy models while still enabling the charging unit to end its move satisfying all of the conditions above, you must do so. The controlling player chooses the order in which to move their models.

Charge mentions that you move in btb if possible but not required, it mentions the model when doing said move, you can manipulate this in your favor it's still movement, yuo can move that either the least amun or the largest amount end in btb, it's up to you, you rolled the dice, the charge is a move, your able to fiddle, it has ample way to work with.

If it's possible you MUST move. So only way you can end up charge move without going to b2b is if you physically can't. Ie opponent is 4.5" away and you roll 4". If you roll 5" at least one model is quaranteed to be able to go to b2b and then he HAS to move to b2b.

You DO know meaning of must right? Or are you just interested in cheating and skipping words like must?

Also can't end up further from target than you started. And has to end up in coherency.

Yes you can play around with order but it only goes so far and and as seen in actual game examples already in real games rather than forum talk it's lot harder than it sounds.

I presume you know theres been already real games played? No need to even forum chat when we can look at actual games and see how the tightening up of rules make the trick while theoretically possible lot harder in practice. Because GW put up enough must's and requirements to make it damned hard to actually pull it off.

tneva82 wrote:

Forceride wrote:
If you can also move a charging model so that it ends its Charge move in base-to-base contact with one or more enemy models while still enabling the charging unit to end its move satisfying all of the conditions above, you must do so. The controlling player chooses the order in which to move their models.

Charge mentions that you move in btb if possible but not required, it mentions the model when doing said move, you can manipulate this in your favor it's still movement, yuo can move that either the least amun or the largest amount end in btb, it's up to you, you rolled the dice, the charge is a move, your able to fiddle, it has ample way to work with.

If it's possible you MUST move. So only way you can end up charge move without going to b2b is if you physically can't. Ie opponent is 4.5" away and you roll 4". If you roll 5" at least one model is quaranteed to be able to go to b2b and then he HAS to move to b2b.

You DO know meaning of must right? Or are you just interested in cheating and skipping words like must?

Also can't end up further from target than you started. And has to end up in coherency.

Yes you can play around with order but it only goes so far and and as seen in actual game examples already in real games rather than forum talk it's lot harder than it sounds.

I presume you know theres been already real games played? No need to even forum chat when we can look at actual games and see how the tightening up of rules make the trick while theoretically possible lot harder in practice. Because GW put up enough must's and requirements to make it damned hard to actually pull it off.

You do you mate, you don't seem interested in discussing, rather, in attacking, so i am not even going to engage in the convo. my point stands and yes i saw exhibition matches.
I am not going to point to what Jidmah mentioned, but if you wish to discuss anything, even if you disagree with a person, being civil will gather more good will and further a discussion, i understood your point's and i think we are speaking the same thing but from different points of view, after all 9th fight phase also has nuances you need to know... So we can either politely agree we disagree and discuss from there or.. Good day to you sir.

 Jidmah wrote:


To continue picking up crumbs, the weird boys' 'eadbanger also ends up with S10 5dmg with a mob of 20 which feels a lot more like something GW would do than giving him a S12 7dmg shot.

That said, I'm not sad to see mobs of 30 go. They were unwieldy anyways and until 8th no one really ever ran them because of that. With the new blast rules and very limited second row fighting, 3x 20 would probably superior to 3x 20 anyways.

I don't know about that Jidmah, I was running blobs in 4th-7th as well But I get your point. It is going to be a bit sad to see my huge blobs disappear and even more so when I realize that I've lost yet more of my army in regards to utilizing max size. Last edition we lost biker size which cost me about 5 or so bikes (legally), the big hit was Stormboyz, I had 90 and can only legally field 60 now :( A lot of Speedfreak players lost Buggies and we also lost Burna/loota size since were forced to include spannerz now. Like I said, not a big deal, just kind of disheartening.

cody.d. wrote:
I dunno where the assumption our melee will be worse comes from.

AP1 on choppas, extra attack, str, advance and charge on waagh, sustained hits with the waaagh tribe rule, attack on death stratagem, 1+ to hit and wound buff from ghaz and an increase on the boyz save to boot. Seems like a lot of potential and there's more buffs to be seen yet.

The big hit is from engagement range and other game wide rules, however I would argue that losing sub faction rules like Goff was a big loss as well, not to mention the durability for most things going up. I think orkz will do ok but we have lost a little CC power while gaining a smidgen of Ranged firepower in return. Nothing is concrete yet so we will have to wait.

Semper, you should see it from the better side.

You can play two games simoultaneously now

SemperMortis wrote:


The big hit is from engagement range and other game wide rules, however I would argue that losing sub faction rules like Goff was a big loss as well, not to mention the durability for most things going up. I think orkz will do ok but we have lost a little CC power while gaining a smidgen of Ranged firepower in return. Nothing is concrete yet so we will have to wait.

I am actually feeling a bit distressed, there are many combos popping from the sheets shown, and what they do show is that lethality isn't down. While toughness has gone up, anti-x/devastating wounds combos are raising their heads threatening to claim their pound of flesh. I still tell myself it's too soon and point's will correct but i have my doubts.

We play mostly on T and bodies, we don't have the saves for this amount of damage, it is rather concerning.

Other situations like nids flyrant power decreasing attacks(0 attacks lol), or -1D not having the stop gap of D1 not being affected, the nid pod that can fit a 100mm monster but can't disembark it on 3', is all requesting a FaQ pretty soon.

I know this is the start of an edition but things are already not looking very good in general... man i hate to bringing the gloom.

Forceride wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:


The big hit is from engagement range and other game wide rules, however I would argue that losing sub faction rules like Goff was a big loss as well, not to mention the durability for most things going up. I think orkz will do ok but we have lost a little CC power while gaining a smidgen of Ranged firepower in return. Nothing is concrete yet so we will have to wait.

I am actually feeling a bit distressed, there are many combos popping from the sheets shown, and what they do show is that lethality isn't down. While toughness has gone up, anti-x/devastating wounds combos are raising their heads threatening to claim their pound of flesh. I still tell myself it's too soon and point's will correct but i have my doubts.

We play mostly on T and bodies, we don't have the saves for this amount of damage, it is rather concerning.

Other situations like nids flyrant power decreasing attacks(0 attacks lol), or -1D not having the stop gap of D1 not being affected, the nid pod that can fit a 100mm monster but can't disembark it on 3', is all requesting a FaQ pretty soon.

I know this is the start of an edition but things are already not looking very good in general... man i hate to bringing the gloom.

I dont see any gloom at all untill ive actually seen the data sheets, points and otherwise tried out playing orks.

Everything is all chaos and gloom while theory is all one has. Lets just wait with the doom and darkness untill we have a better picture. Im generally very excited for 10th edition. Not necessarily because it makes orks better (because we dont know) but because its different.

I guess your right Beardedragon, hopefully this all just theory and does not live up to expectations.

I will try to keep it at bay, sry i am really trying to avoid it.. and i also agree that it's something new and fresh.

Like you say, for all we know orks might be top dog this edition. As hilarious as that would be i just prefer to have a balanced army.

Forceride wrote:
I guess your right Beardedragon, hopefully this all just theory and does not live up to expectations.

I will try to keep it at bay, sry i am really trying to avoid it.. and i also agree that it's something new and fresh.

Like you say, for all we know orks might be top dog this edition. As hilarious as that would be i just prefer to have a balanced army.

orks were pretty balanced in 9th edition, and thats all i ever really want for them in 10th as well.

Also you dont really have to do anything i say, im just saying, being gloomy about something we dont know much about, seems pointless. DG players seem to be raging over DG being bad due to the preview making them look bad, but the last i heard from, was it, art of war (the youtube channel)? was a DG player actually demolishing who ever he was fighting. Its only a one time thing so take it with a grain of salt, but i feel like even rules that "look bad" can be really good when the rest of the rules they have, make up for it.

Or if they are cheap enough

or strong enough.

All we have are a few previews.

And while keeping at it, our waagh has changed for better or worse, but our entire army has advance and charge. Even our slow units like deff dreads, could potentially see play now.

The waaagh giving full effect to all units for sure is a fun change. An example would be kans who can get some milage out of it. Especially with a mek passing his buff onto all of them for both phases. If the ork lineup has lots of assault weapons, now that something can be both assault and something else like rapidfire we can have big shootas behave like big shootas.

We're expecting the xenos datacards on thursday I believe, so we'll have a lot to pour over on that day. I'm betting this chatroom (or the 10th edition one that'll get made) will be a busy box of orkish brawling for a while. Seriously I do enjoy how you greenskins enjoy a good chat about our orky lads.

Eh, the DG rage is more about the army losing its identity than about it being good. Just from the DG leak we already know that there are stupid combos just like for marines and eldar and three important characters aren't even known yet.

Imagine orks suddenly becoming a T3/4+ army that is mediocre at close combat. That's kind of what many people feel like what is happening with DG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cody.d. wrote:
The waaagh giving full effect to all units for sure is a fun change. An example would be kans who can get some milage out of it. Especially with a mek passing his buff onto all of them for both phases. If the ork lineup has lots of assault weapons, now that something can be both assault and something else like rapidfire we can have big shootas behave like big shootas.

We're expecting the xenos datacards on thursday I believe, so we'll have a lot to pour over on that day. I'm betting this chatroom (or the 10th edition one that'll get made) will be a busy box of orkish brawling for a while. Seriously I do enjoy how you greenskins enjoy a good chat about our orky lads.

Good thing you reminded me. I probably won't be able to create a new thread as soon as the rules hit, but I will try to do it at some point during the evening, so it's ready for discussions when we get the points on Friday.

Remember Jid, we can make the new thread as a community effort. You don't have to shoulder the entire burden.

But we do appreciate your efforts.

Don't worry. I will not do the tier list anymore as it gets invalidated faster than I can update it, but outside of that it's really not that much work.

Having seen a lot of the index datasheets so far, I think the Nob with WAAAGH! banner might actually be relevant again as a unit. If trends follow, it seems like he'll likely do some of the following:

- gives models in the unit one more OC point.
- give them +1 to hit/wound
- provide some sort of battleshock mitigation ability

Since GW is really trying to push each datasheet to do different abilties, this means that Warbosses and WAAAGH! Banner Nob shouldn't have the same +1 to hit ability anymore, so he might be worth putting in with Meganobz or a unit of boyz now that he won't get outpaced so quickly by CC units.

I could see him mitigate battleshock.

It feels like this game is infested with battleshock to the point where i have no idea how to even hold a single point as an ork player, unless there are ways to actually mitigate these things.

So one can hope there are ways to mitigate it.

 Grimskul wrote:
Having seen a lot of the index datasheets so far, I think the Nob with WAAAGH! banner might actually be relevant again as a unit. If trends follow, it seems like he'll likely do some of the following:

- gives models in the unit one more OC point.
- give them +1 to hit/wound
- provide some sort of battleshock mitigation ability

Since GW is really trying to push each datasheet to do different abilties, this means that Warbosses and WAAAGH! Banner Nob shouldn't have the same +1 to hit ability anymore, so he might be worth putting in with Meganobz or a unit of boyz now that he won't get outpaced so quickly by CC units.

I wouldn't be surprised if they just copy paste a Chaplain / Dark Apostle and change him to Ork stats to be honest. They may also have him extend the Waaagh bonus, or give superior bonus while it's active.

So deathwatch pump out 90 mw’s per turn and chaos get the same armor of contempt strat but have to pay an additional cp. I’m starting to think gw might not of even play tested this edition. 😂

I was really hoping those datasheet cards would be an easy quick reference guide but there are to many issues popping up that I don’t feel safe buying them and having relevant accurate rules on some of them after the first round of changes. I’ll probably buy them anyway unfortunately I expect a lot of changes to units

gungo wrote:
I was really hoping those datasheet cards would be an easy quick reference guide but there are to many issues popping up that I don’t feel safe buying them and having relevant accurate rules on some of them after the first round of changes. I’ll probably buy them anyway unfortunately I expect a lot of changes to units

I really wouldn't recommend buying them given several typos have started popping up, not to mention the game breaking 90MW stuff.
Might be better to just buy some stiff printer paper, such as resume paper, and print your cards; since I doubt GW will be selling these at a reasonable price.

Legit, anything that is remotely rules related for GW that isn't just some sort of token or tracker for Command Points, Victory Points or the Turn number becomes obselete incredibly quickly. I should know, I have two sets of Orruk Warclans warscroll cards with the cardboard tokens and so far the only saving grace is that the cardboard tokens can be useful for marking other things, but the cards quickly became useless for me given balance changes and warscroll updates.

I'm sure a fan will collate them into something much more manageable and less unwieldy than the pdf blobs GW uploaded to their community page.

So the new Xenos stuff comes tomorrow? This thread will be quite active then.

Had to edit my post, i thought xenos was on today :(

Beardedragon wrote:
So the new Xenos stuff comes tomorrow? This thread will be quite active then.

i hope so... i dont wanna really post in the rumors thread for 10th... the amount of salt there is kinda unbearable. people complaining they cant use their 9th lists anymore
i mean i am a salty boi too... but that level of GW bashing is unreal.

as long as i can field trukks full of boyz, wagons full of dakkastuff and the occational mek construct, while not being cleared off the board by turn 2, i will be a happy git

RedNoak wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
So the new Xenos stuff comes tomorrow? This thread will be quite active then.

i hope so... i dont wanna really post in the rumors thread for 10th... the amount of salt there is kinda unbearable. people complaining they cant use their 9th lists anymore
i mean i am a salty boi too... but that level of GW bashing is unreal.

as long as i can field trukks full of boyz, wagons full of dakkastuff and the occational mek construct, while not being cleared off the board by turn 2, i will be a happy git

I feel you.
Unlike for the rest of dakka, it is not considered to be impolite to not be negative about orks in this thread, so feel free share anything you like about the new rules

RedNoak wrote:

as long as i can field trukks full of boyz, wagons full of dakkastuff and the occational mek construct, while not being cleared off the board by turn 2, i will be a happy git

Same here

 flaming tadpole wrote:
So deathwatch pump out 90 mw’s per turn and chaos get the same armor of contempt strat but have to pay an additional cp. I’m starting to think gw might not of even play tested this edition. 😂

already nerfed today!

Glad they're taking advantage of the rule all being online now to nix some of the dumb stuff in the bud.

Today is the day boyz !!

It is there!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/EE2Pdickp8sNe1NX.pdf


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The order in which the units are organized in the book is a pure hell….

Man, they sure roughed up the power klaw and the killsaw.

Nobs went from being able to equip dual Choppa to not even being able to equip a Choppa. I have reached another level of modeling hell.

At least 5+ feel no pain is back, but it's unfortunate it would only affect 20 Boyz.

Spammable waaagh with waaagh bananas.

I would like to see the point costs.

Characters are a big buff. But for what cost?

Mek' s + Nauts/Stompas!
Zogrod Wortsnaga!
Spamming the Banners, exactly!
Buggies doesn 't look bad actually. Generally their shooting is worse, mellee better, abilities interesting.
Airplanes - depending on the price but seems like they went to hell.
Meganobz have a lot of HQ fixed on them. And have a good ability do deal mortal wounds.

Where are the FW units? They promised the rules for them too.

I still don't see anything about assault vehicles in the transport rules.

It looks like there's some decent stuff as far as toughness, but I'm really not liking how they took a pip off the strength of all the klaws and killsaws. I don't like the thought of dealing with the high toughness vehicles or T5.

Grots became a CP farmers.
Tankbustas ruined by the “equip strictly as in the box” attitude.
Lootas and Deffkoptas looks interesting…
KFF has two different rules and both sucks… no invu aura boyz…

Big Mek in Mega Armour brings back MANz, and gives them a 4++

No big surprise that buggy squads went away, but some of these are pretty rough.

10 only Kommandos, Stormboyz capped at 10, and box squad Tankbustas. Woof.

Lots of stuff I like... but flash gitz bs5 and heavy.... why :(

At least baddrukk makes em better

Wait.. none of our transports have asssult ramps?

We dont get to disembark and charge? Why does space marines get this but we dont? Since when did orks care about safety

Quick, while GW is still asleep, put Ghaz and a full squad of MANZ in a trukk.

Deffdread 2+ / 6++ and units engaged must pass battleshock test , this is hilarious.

Now how can I combine that with the Wurrboy's roar of mork ?

lol? ol' boyz special rule triggers only if a warboss is attached?! same with regular nobz...

so we cant drive, disembark and charge?

kareen looks fun, until you realize that you must roll a 6 for deadly demise xD

I'm glad I was planning Squigapalooza for this edition; Squighogs with Smasha Squigs is some really nice anti-everything melee, you just overwhelm everything with decent armour with a buttload of hits.

Twin Killsaw MANz look decent, especially with a Mega Mek or a Mega Boss.

Dakkajet looks like a nice unit for pulping infantry. 3 supa shootas in rapid fire range for 18 shots at 6, -1, 1. Each hit turns into 2, and you reroll wounds. It might even be usable for chipping harder targets.

Wazbom and KMKs are still the kings of ranged AT.

What happened to Nobs and Tankbustas is an absolute travesty.

Big Mek in mega armor and a squad of mega nobs is absurd…
Beastboss on squigasaur is good
As is deffkoptas, warbikes lead by wartrike, killakans, zodgrod, and Dakkajet. banner is cool but it’s just a squad of boys, regular mini Mek is decent

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Big Mek in Mega Armour brings back MANz, and gives them a 4++

Against shooting only.

Meanwhile librarians give a real 4++ as does a whole bunch of other stuff like Azrael and Abaddon. Almost got my hopes up, too.

I kind of like the idea of having multiple waaagh banners instead, it's literally 5++ army wide on demand on enemy shooting phase for one turn.

All is about the price of the Leaders. If price is about 100p, that the effect would be pretty small - boyz before toys effect. 2-3 squads with the leaders with spetial effects and the rest just the pure infantry.

If price about 50p, massive Leader contest begins!

waitwaitwait.... only 3 tankbustas can have rokkit launchaz?!

dakkajet looks WILD!

beastboss on squigosaur has toughness 10!!

The squigboss has a beefy profile, but also doesn't have Leader, Lone Operative, and can't hide from shooting in combat.

Hope it'll be enough.

But we cant stop people from shooting the beastbosses, correct? Skragbad looks pretty wild with his 4+ invul and 4+fnp

 TedNugent wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Big Mek in Mega Armour brings back MANz, and gives them a 4++

Against shooting only.

Meanwhile librarians give a real 4++ as does a whole bunch of other stuff like Azrael and Abaddon. Almost got my hopes up, too.

I kind of like the idea of having multiple waaagh banners instead, it's literally 5++ army wide on demand on enemy shooting phase for one turn.

Let me naively believe that I'll only need it against shooting

Nob with Waaagh banner only gives the benefit to single units of boys or Nobs. And frankly Nobs are in an awful place. A big brick of 20 boys with a banner nob might be decent though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:
But we cant stop people from shooting the beastbosses, correct? Skragbad looks pretty wild with his 4+ invul and 4+fnp

3+, 5++ and 4+++ on the Squigboss is still really good.

-1 to wound on nobs with warboss actually kinda seems good, I don't know. S4 wounds on 6's, nearly everything else on 4's.

It's better than T6 at least.

 JohnU wrote:
The squigboss has a beefy profile, but also doesn't have Leader, Lone Operative, and can't hide from shooting in combat.

Hope it'll be enough.

I mean he’s durable and has a true aura. Making squads of 6 squigboys w a nobsquig x2 an extremely brutal and reliable melee threat.. 10 move and rerollable charge again w a lot of atks.

I like megaMek w meganobs better then ghaz w meganobs. They actually fit in a trukk or battlewagon.

Points make or break this index lots of units become competitive w attached leaders. If they are overpriced those units aren’t as good. Only a handful of units are great by themselves. Dakkajet, shokkjump etc.

The mekshop can actually be useful as a repair base for every vehicle in range. It’s not really competitive but funny to repair a bunch of killakans or squigbuggy firing indirectly w a minimek buffing the hit.

Overall I'm honestly happy with what we got.

Beast snagga units having their defined niche is great. Unbridled carnage being 1cp is a pretty big boon. Solid combo I'm seeing atm is 20 boys, warboss with killchoppa enchancement and waaagh banner gives you 2 turns with double attacks devastating wounds warboss.

Manz I think will live or die based on their points. You kinda need a big mek just to give them rules termies have for free, but still a good threat for the waaagh turn regardless.

Happy that characters like wurrboy and zodgrod are good now.

Ghaz is dead unless he's cheap as chips.

Burna boys will be amazing at clearing chaff and even some elite units off obj.

Tankbustas I don't think are as bad as everyone is saying. You'd normally have a tankhammer guy anyways so you only lost one launcha to rokkit pistols which sucks but isn't the end of the world especially since rokkit launchas are super strong having blast.

I do wish battlewagons were at least T11 without ard case but I guess it is what it is.

For sure will be trying out the stompa this weekend

Whoever organized the index was on crack.

Looks like we’ve lost the wagon variants as well. Just a Battlewagon with upgrades

Looks like my Dread-Waaagh! list is going to need to change pretty dramatically, not being able to deploy them in squads of 2 or three pretty much kills the list.

Best charge of all no warboss limit
You want beastboss on squig and mozgrod buffing him w reroll charge go for it. In fact no named are klan locked.

Only wish from me is assault ramp on trukk.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry Ghaz will be viable for about 2 weeks before they nerf the trukk.. ghaz only takes up 1 slot on trukk. 5 mega mobs and ghaz in trukk is a go. Trukk 2 is 5 mega nobs and megaMek. 3rd trukk mega boss w 5 melee meganobs. Welcome to the lethal hits/devastating wounds combo club.

I wonder how the ' firing deck' rules work with a fully loaded battle weagon. So it uses the weapons from the models as if it has the weapons itself? So the models are not shooting, so no abilities? but giving the battlewagon a +1 to hit does work?

Another question: does anybody know anything about the forgeworld stuff?

Never thought I'd see the day where non-'ard boyz ditch the T-Shirt and get a 5+ Armor Save.

Kunning but Brutal but no Brutal but Kunning Enhancement

Oof, Deffrolla is down to a 3+
No cool ability on the grabba klaw to stop people from falling back, ah well was a cool idea

Thank goodness there's no nonsense about the KFF being used then disappearing for the rest of the game

Was hoping Shokk Attack Gun would have a higher Strength

The Aura on the Boomdakka Snazzwagon is eh , I guess it's helpful for Overwatch? Would have been better if the Aura was to your units, instead of having to drive up next to the enemy.

Boyz at Ld 7+, was expecting worse tbh

Woof Power Klaws are weaker

Dakkastorm is nice

Heck yeah my Lootas are finally good!! (6+ on the Deffgun) of course

Nob with Waagh Banner is back on the menu

 JohnU wrote:
Quick, while GW is still asleep, put Ghaz and a full squad of MANZ in a trukk.

lol !! Nice point spotted

shogun wrote:
Another question: does anybody know anything about the forgeworld stuff?

They said all forgeworld and legend units will be released in the coming weeks.

Eh, got a gakky day and the browser crashed when typing some thoughts.

Short version:

Me like. It got some wacky combos, some great units to work with and I already see tons of different army builds.
Meks look great, especially the MA one.
Buggies look great.
MANz are better than DG terminators.
I actually want to have gretchin sitting on
Warboss is scary during a Waaagh!, especially with the killchoppa relic and carnage.
Nauts look great and can finally transport propper squads.
Rokkits are no longer heavy.
No more senseless clanlocking special characters which originate from the same Waaagh!
Zodgrod's datasheet genuinely made be laugh.
Heck, I even want to run a mek workshop now.

Kombi-weapons suck, so does not having an assault vehicle. Outside of that? Not much to complain about.

And all the hate about nobz? All the choppas are big choppas now and -1 to wound isn't exactly terrible. You can also put them with a painboy and revive d3 nobz once per game.
They're not great, but decent.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:


Heck yeah my Lootas are finally good!! (6+ on the Deffgun) of course

Lootas look like they might be usable from an accuracy standpoint. They're a 5+ when stationary, rerolling 1s to hit or full rerolls to hit if shooting at something on an objective. For orks that's not bad at all in terms of accuracy.

So i am a little bit confused here about the firing deck thing.

You have lootas in a trukk, you move it, so you dont get your +1 to hit from being stationary with the deffguns.

You instead use the mek to give +1 to hit to the trukk, so now the deffgun hit on 5s yes? Because technically the "trukk" is firing the guns.

If you stood still to get +1 to hit, could you still use the mek to make the trukk fire deffguns on a +4?

The untipped title Master or Terror Warfare went to us for some inexplicable reason. Dreads and Shook Attacks both trigger morale tests and Wurr Boy gives a -2 Ld penalty. Now I want a clanker army with Big Meks supporting

Beardedragon wrote:
So i am a little bit confused here about the firing deck thing.

You have lootas in a trukk, you move it, so you dont get your +1 to hit from being stationary with the deffguns.

You instead use the mek to give +1 to hit to the trukk, so now the deffgun hit on 5s yes? Because technically the "trukk" is firing the guns.

If you stood still to get +1 to hit, could you still use the mek to make the trukk fire deffguns on a +4?

Modifiers still don’t stack beyond +/-1, for hit and wound rolls.

Beardedragon wrote:
So i am a little bit confused here about the firing deck thing.

You have lootas in a trukk, you move it, so you dont get your +1 to hit from being stationary with the deffguns.

You instead use the mek to give +1 to hit to the trukk, so now the deffgun hit on 5s yes? Because technically the "trukk" is firing the guns.

If you stood still to get +1 to hit, could you still use the mek to make the trukk fire deffguns on a +4?

I believe the +1 to hit cap is still there from what I can tell. So even with the additional +1 to hit from Heavy, since you already have a +1 to hit from the Mek, you can only ever hit max on a 5+ from positive modifiers. So the additional +1 to hit is mainly to accomodate penalties to hit from things like Stealth or other unit abilties/strategems.

right.

But the Mek could easily make the trukk shoot deffguns on a +5, so i dont have to worry about whether i move the trukk in that case? (if i have a mek)

All these new rules i have to figure out.

Im still sad that i orks cant disembark after their transport has moved (unless i have misunderstood something). Of all factions in this game, disregarding their own safety and jumping out of a moving transport seems orky to the bone.

 TedNugent wrote:
I still don't see anything about assault vehicles in the transport rules.

It looks like there's some decent stuff as far as toughness, but I'm really not liking how they took a pip off the strength of all the klaws and killsaws. I don't like the thought of dealing with the high toughness vehicles or T5.

Assault vehicle is datasheet rule in land raiders.

On core rules can"t charge if disembark after transport moves.

To avoid that transport datasheet needs to have that exception. Like land raider.

Is it correctly understood that kill rigs and Hunta Rigs can transport non-beast snagga models?

and all our vehicles have an invulnerable save.



Except the rigs for some reason

Edit: im blind. Rigs still only carry beast snagga models.

Beardedragon wrote:
So i am a little bit confused here about the firing deck thing.

You have lootas in a trukk, you move it, so you dont get your +1 to hit from being stationary with the deffguns.

You instead use the mek to give +1 to hit to the trukk, so now the deffgun hit on 5s yes? Because technically the "trukk" is firing the guns.

If you stood still to get +1 to hit, could you still use the mek to make the trukk fire deffguns on a +4?

Yes to all.

Well except +1 max bonus so 5+ maximum

also worth noting careen is a normal move and can be used without rolling a 6 to explode so trukks, bw's, ect will all but guantee our units getting to the enemy or at least safely behind a ruin

oh i absolutely missed that part. I thought it was the same as before. But you sure CAN use it even if you didnt explode.

Thats pretty good!

jk it does need a 6, still a much better rule though

 flaming tadpole wrote:
jk it does need a 6, still a much better rule though

"You can use this Stratagem on that
unit even though it was just destroyed."

Doesnt that mean you DONT need the 6?

under the target section it says "if you roll a 6". I glanced over that part originally lol. There are other armies that can modify the 6 to be easier to explode which works in favor though

flaming tadpole wrote:

shogun wrote:
Another question: does anybody know anything about the forgeworld stuff?

They said all forgeworld and legend units will be released in the coming weeks.

Thanks

Beardedragon wrote:right.

But the Mek could easily make the trukk shoot deffguns on a +5, so i dont have to worry about whether i move the trukk in that case? (if i have a mek)

All these new rules i have to figure out.

A full Battlewagon with deffguns and other stuff can still use the overwatch stratagem, right? rapid fire deffguns can really bring a lot off 6+ combining it with the batte weagon weapons and a few other models (shokk attack gun?).

 Afrodactyl wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:


Heck yeah my Lootas are finally good!! (6+ on the Deffgun) of course

Lootas look like they might be usable from an accuracy standpoint. They're a 5+ when stationary, rerolling 1s to hit or full rerolls to hit if shooting at something on an objective. For orks that's not bad at all in terms of accuracy.

Oh the rerolls are great, but we were so close to having 5+ Heavy Deffguns, would have been spectacular
I'm really looking forward to running them. My Shokkjump Dragsta looks quite a bit more useful as well, might be time to pick up a second one. Unfortunately I think the Snazzwagon isn't going to see play until we get different detachments.

You could have mini Meks give +1 to hit to a unit of 3 Mek Gunz firing from the backline.

Thats not bad.

ya mek gun spam might be a thing for us again honestly

shogun wrote:

I wonder how the ' firing deck' rules work with a fully loaded battle weagon. So it uses the weapons from the models as if it has the weapons itself? So the models are not shooting, so no abilities? but giving the battlewagon a +1 to hit does work?

Another question: does anybody know anything about the forgeworld stuff?

Every weapon fired from a firing deck is just treated like the transport was firing them, so unit abilities do not work, but all buffs and debuffs that affect the transport do.

Forgeworld stuff will get separate Datasheets 'soon' after 10th releases, they have not told us more and there are no rumours of a date. Notably, Valrak, who has accurately told us the other Datasheet dates a week in advance, has not heard anything concrete about it.

I just noticed that Zodgrod enables turn one charges with a unit of gretchin

Call Waaagh!, scout 9", move 12", advance d6, charge 2d6, for an average charge range of 31.5". That's what I call a proppa distraction

Chuck a weirdboy with a unit of boyz attached and some kommandoz and you're back to playing 8th edition.

Tsagualsa wrote:
Every weapon fired from a firing deck is just treated like the transport was firing them, so unit abilities do not work, but all buffs and debuffs that affect the transport do.

So I could pack a battlewagon with:

- 15 loota's including 3 spanners with rokkit launcha
- 5 loota's with one spanner with rokkit launcha
2x shokk attack gun big mekk

and use the overwatch stratagem to get a free round shooting (including the weapons from the battle wagon) with 6+ to hit when an enemy get's within 24 inch.

Then let's hope for the howda rule on little squigoth... Counts always as stationary... Fill that up with tankbustaz, flashgitz or lootaz. Lil mek for safety reasons also not bad. Seems kmk is still best mek gun? Profile wise I mean... Gotta be kmk Vs smasha round 3 xD

So to clarify.... Can U or can't you use Kareem without the need of a six?

Funny how special rule of burnaz also works in CC
It's maybe even intentional 😅

It appears units in mega armour do not have the mega armour keyword.

Beardedragon wrote:
You could have mini Meks give +1 to hit to a unit of 3 Mek Gunz firing from the backline.

Thats not bad.

I've been meaning to assemble mine, are the different guns easy to magnetize?

RedNoak wrote:
Seems kmk is still best mek gun? Profile wise I mean... Gotta be kmk Vs smasha round 3 xD

So to clarify.... Can U or can't you use Kareem without the need of a six?

The KMK still looks like the go to choice.

The way I read Careen is that you need to have rolled the 6 to explode before you're a viable target for the strat.

Also, a handy guide from Reddit about which characters can join which unit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/orks/comments/14a9voj/a_list_of_who_goes_with_whom/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

 The Red Hobbit wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
You could have mini Meks give +1 to hit to a unit of 3 Mek Gunz firing from the backline.

Thats not bad.

I've been meaning to assemble mine, are the different guns easy to magnetize?

Definitely not easy, but possible. If you google a bit there are great guides and videos out there though, walking you through every step.

Gotcha, I'll look into those, thanks

 Afrodactyl wrote:

RedNoak wrote:
Seems kmk is still best mek gun? Profile wise I mean... Gotta be kmk Vs smasha round 3 xD

So to clarify.... Can U or can't you use Kareem without the need of a six?

The KMK still looks like the go to choice.

The way I read Careen is that you need to have rolled the 6 to explode before you're a viable target for the strat.

Also, a handy guide from Reddit about which characters can join which unit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/orks/comments/14a9voj/a_list_of_who_goes_with_whom/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Yeah, some of the ork stratagems are weirdly situational. Careen needs you to roll the 6 for Deadly Demise, and 'Mob Rule' is basically a very conditional +1CP cost for other Stratagems that allows you to use them on Battleshocked units. Probably not something that would come up that often.

Why even bother to magnetize the Mek Gunz? No one outside orks know what the difference between a traktor kannon and a kustom mega kannon looks like.

I have different shooting heads on all my mek gunz, and i run them as what ever i want


Small thing i hadnt noticed on my first read through:

Gorkanaut remains at invul 6 but the morkanaut has invul 5 due to the build in KFF
Gorkanaut gives +1 to hit in melee during the turn of the waaagh, however, the Morkanaut gives +1 to hit to shooting, during the turn of the waaagh. I thought they both gave +1 to hit during melee during the waaagh, but you can actually reliably use the morkanaut as a shooty platform and save the meks +1 to hit ability on something else, if you do decide to run a morkanaut.

shogun wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
Every weapon fired from a firing deck is just treated like the transport was firing them, so unit abilities do not work, but all buffs and debuffs that affect the transport do.

So I could pack a battlewagon with:

- 15 loota's including 3 spanners with rokkit launcha
- 5 loota's with one spanner with rokkit launcha
2x shokk attack gun big mekk

and use the overwatch stratagem to get a free round shooting (including the weapons from the battle wagon) with 6+ to hit when an enemy get's within 24 inch.

Lootas seem like a bad choice for transports as they can never hitter better than 5s.

Or you just pack it with 2x 6 burnas +1 spanna and 1x 7 burnas+1 spanna and part hit whatever comes closer than 12" with 19d6 S4 hits
Ahh, brings back memories from 5th.

Another idea would be 3x5 Tankbustas and two mini meks which take turns jumping out and embarking onto the models you can drive around freely.

I actually also think that flash gits would be decent passengers as well, but you want them to jump out and fire away to make best use of their abilities rather than shoot from the safety of a firing deck.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tsagualsa wrote:
Yeah, some of the ork stratagems are weirdly situational. Careen needs you to roll the 6 for Deadly Demise, and 'Mob Rule' is basically a very conditional +1CP cost for other Stratagems that allows you to use them on Battleshocked units. Probably not something that would come up that often.

Mob rule is actually a headscratcher to me. Is there a way to use it at all? You have to use it in your command phase, and it only lasts till the end of the command phase - which means you can only use other command phase stratagems which are... *checks books* ... just insane bravery?

For sure. Badrukk and Flash Gitz seem really good actually

Beardedragon wrote:
Why even bother to magnetize the Mek Gunz? No one outside orks know what the difference between a traktor kannon and a kustom mega kannon looks like.

I have different shooting heads on all my mek gunz, and i run them as what ever i want
.

Well. I trust you won't have problem with marines running predators as vindicators, terminator models as any terminator sheet etc. Centurions as aggressors etc

After all,consistencv

tneva82 wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Why even bother to magnetize the Mek Gunz? No one outside orks know what the difference between a traktor kannon and a kustom mega kannon looks like.

I have different shooting heads on all my mek gunz, and i run them as what ever i want
.

Well. I trust you won't have problem with marines running predators as vindicators, terminator models as any terminator sheet etc. Centurions as aggressors etc

After all,consistencv

I dont know what the difference is on those things.

But you cant put the same rules on orks as you do on space marines. We build models out of literal trash, they dont.

All the mek gun weapons are energy based, so whether you use the traktor kannon head, smasha gun head or kustom mega kannon head, really shouldnt matter. As long as it looks like what its meant to be, its close enough. I agree firing rockets out of a small bullet barrel wouldnt cut it, but all Mek Gunz are energy based weapons.

We're playing a faction where we rutinely paint our models yellow and red, but still run them as death skulls and Goffs. We're a faction that builds "Gaze of Mork" guns for our Stompas out of Necron Gunz, Dakkajets out of necron flyers, and Gorkanauts out of Knights.

Space marines dont generally run blood angels in the colors of Black and white, and the few who do i dont call out (because i honestly dont care about their colors).

Last but not least, have you ever showed up with Mek Gunz at a tournament with the "wrong" shooting head and had issues? I have showed up at tournaments with my 9 Mek Gunz, and ive had none bat an eye. Not even my Ork opponents.

I highly doubt our opponents are going to give a damn, about our Mek Gun firing heads, to be fair.

tneva82 wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Why even bother to magnetize the Mek Gunz? No one outside orks know what the difference between a traktor kannon and a kustom mega kannon looks like.

I have different shooting heads on all my mek gunz, and i run them as what ever i want
.

Well. I trust you won't have problem with marines running predators as vindicators, terminator models as any terminator sheet etc. Centurions as aggressors etc

After all,consistencv

You must have accidentally posted in the wrong thread. Threads for arguments made in bad faith can be found here, here and here.

To everyone else I can just advise to not respond to tneva anymore. It has been years since he actually contributed anything of value here.

 Jidmah wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
Yeah, some of the ork stratagems are weirdly situational. Careen needs you to roll the 6 for Deadly Demise, and 'Mob Rule' is basically a very conditional +1CP cost for other Stratagems that allows you to use them on Battleshocked units. Probably not something that would come up that often.

Mob rule is actually a headscratcher to me. Is there a way to use it at all? You have to use it in your command phase, and it only lasts till the end of the command phase - which means you can only use other command phase stratagems which are... *checks books* ... just insane bravery?

I think it's meant to represent something like the 10th edition 'Mob rule' that basically got you auto insane bravery if your fleeing unit ran into a larger ork mob, as the two units would merge together.

As it stands, you need to have an ORK INFANTRY mob with more than 10 models and above half-strength to target with Mob Rule, then after that OTHER Ork units within 6'' of that can be targetted with Stratagems even though they're battleshocked. It's extremely situational, and honestly, for all the conditions that have to align, it should not cost a CP; and then as you said, there is not much you could actually use this Stratagem with. It's probably meant to work with 'rally'-style Stratagems, but... there aren't any, really. It could possibly be a leftover thing from an earlier version of the game or something, as it stands now it basically does nothing... if you could target a battleshocked unit and remove Battelshock from it if another big unit was nearby it would have some use (and probably still be underpowered), as it stands now it's basically useless.

Beardedragon wrote:


I dont know what the difference is on those things.

But you cant put the same rules on orks as you do on space marines. We build models out of literal trash, they dont.
.

Sorry but that's double standards.

If you want to play loose with wysiwyg fine. But if you then expect your opponent to be strict with wysiwyg that turns you into tfg jerk.

It goes both way. You can't have special exception just because your army.

Now as long as you have no issue with opponent being equally loose with wysiwyg no problem. But if you don't follow wysiwyg don't expect opponent either.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
You could have mini Meks give +1 to hit to a unit of 3 Mek Gunz firing from the backline.

Thats not bad.

I've been meaning to assemble mine, are the different guns easy to magnetize?

note that Meks give +1 to hit to the model it heals, not a unit.

I'm actually thinking traktor kannons are our best bet for mek gunz now. SOOOO many units have fly nowadays it's almost never not going to have a decent target. Also slightly terrifed of ghost arks reanimation rule for crons so I need to kill those asap.

Guess we better hope our opponents aren't too strict on WYSIWYG when it comes to BWs with deffrollas the way GW has it currently worded.

Whew, boy oh boy has so much changed.

A little disappointed by our opentopped vehicles not having any sort of assault ramp ability. Or many weapons having the assault keyword in general. It just interacts with our run and charge ability poorly. you wanna go mechanized for the protection but then can't use all our rules.

Our relics are, okay, useful not nothing super scarey. Except maybe a warboss getting headwhoppas killchoppa. 9 attacks on the waagh turn, use unbridaled carnage to proc mortal wounds for the many hits you'll get. Also works on squigasaur bosses cause I'm pretty sure waaagh affects profiles with extra attacks unless the extra attack rules specify you can't modify it somewhere. Oh, killchoppa+ beastsnagga anti big guys isn't a bad combo.

Most of our transports feel like gunplatforms or gun delivery vehicles now. Unless a unit has some special rule not on it's weapon you may as well slap it in a battlewagon for the durability and the ability to buff the shots with a mini mek.

Bit disappointed by our characters, a lot of copy paste buffs and the lieutenant types always take up a leader slot in a unit which some factions dodge, not super fond of that. The squigasaur bosses are pure beatsticks now, Mozrog in particular is durabile with a 4++ and 4+ FNP. Oh, and who a character can join is suuuuper limited for us combined with how small many of our units are. Hopefully the ork codex will bring some more mega armoued stuff to diversify.

Our vehicles are a weird mixed bag. Some of the speedfreaks ones are weird little debuffers, the boomdakka hovering around shortrange firefights or combats could swing a fight, passing out -1 to hit.

WHY IS THE PAINBOY AN ASSASSIN! 1 or 2 attacks that crit infantry on a 4+ have precision and do d6 mortals... I'm just, so confused. Do the mortals carry the precison? I'm assuming mortals spill over like they used to, being allocated one after a nother.

Ugh, I wanna do a rundown on my thoughts of every unit. But that's a lotta text/thoughts.

cody.d. wrote:
Do the mortals carry the precison?

yes

cody.d. wrote:
Ugh, I wanna do a rundown on my thoughts of every unit. But that's a lotta text/thoughts.

I can relate

 Jidmah wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
Ugh, I wanna do a rundown on my thoughts of every unit. But that's a lotta text/thoughts.

I can relate

It's also weird, you have to reference what a unit can do with the buffs available rather than what a character can do for the faction in previous books.

 flaming tadpole wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
Do the mortals carry the precison?

yes

Not the way I read it.

It says the UNIT suffers 1d6 Mortals, not the model.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 flaming tadpole wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
Do the mortals carry the precison?

yes

Not the way I read it.

It says the UNIT suffers 1d6 Mortals, not the model.

Yeah it's weird. The initial attack has precision, representing the painboy grabbing someone fancy and giving them a poke. Then the unit as a whole take d6 wounds, I dunno, out of pure empathy? But the target unit does get to allocate the mortals it seems.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:


Heck yeah my Lootas are finally good!! (6+ on the Deffgun) of course

Lootas look like they might be usable from an accuracy standpoint. They're a 5+ when stationary, rerolling 1s to hit or full rerolls to hit if shooting at something on an objective. For orks that's not bad at all in terms of accuracy.

Oh the rerolls are great, but we were so close to having 5+ Heavy Deffguns, would have been spectacular
I'm really looking forward to running them. My Shokkjump Dragsta looks quite a bit more useful as well, might be time to pick up a second one. Unfortunately I think the Snazzwagon isn't going to see play until we get different detachments.

AFAIK a units datasheet abilities do not transfer when they embark. You only add the weapon profile to the vehicle as a firing deck weapon option.. not tankbusta rules or loota rules or flashgitz rules… or leader auras etc…. so it’s limited

cody.d. wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 flaming tadpole wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
Do the mortals carry the precison?

yes

Not the way I read it.

It says the UNIT suffers 1d6 Mortals, not the model.

Yeah it's weird. The initial attack has precision, representing the painboy grabbing someone fancy and giving them a poke. Then the unit as a whole take d6 wounds, I dunno, out of pure empathy? But the target unit does get to allocate the mortals it seems.

Oh, and Extra attacks cannot be modified by any other rules. Although, maybe sustained hits can still give you the additional hit? Cause it seems attacks and hits are separate things?

I mostly feel good about the index though there are a few things that don't feel good for me on some of the units.

Positive highlights:

- Ramshackle for vehicles became a 6+ invuln, which I believe is much simpler, less conditional and straight forward to remember
- WAAAGH! Banner Nob is even better than what I imagined it would be, depending on the points potentially an insta-take to double dip on WAAAGH! benefits.
- Grots stay relevant! I'm kinda shocked they kept their OC as 2 considering how badly GW seemed to want them to have no objective holding capacity in the previous edition. Giving them the ability to farm CP is just gravy. Also, the runtherd being part of the unit makes me happy that I painted up 3 of them
- strats and enhancements look solid, nothing looks particularly useless, though I do wish we had a few strats that weren't so situational like Careen and Mob Rule
- Despite lacking Lone Operative and Leader, the Beastboss on Squigosaur (and the Mozgrod) does look an absolute tank of a unit, which is good to see
- KFF is back to a proper full invuln save, only against shooting and for the unit it's attached to, but its still infinitely more useful in this format than what it was in 9th (especially with a lot of psychic attacks now being a regular shooting profile rather than just spamming mortal wounds)
- Stuff like the Big Mek in MA and Painboyz/Painbosses actually giving useful FNP and other model recovery rules is fantastic
- Dakkajet and Wazbom look actually decent, depending on the points, I'm really lucky these are the two I own
- Walkers actually look good, Deff Dread having a 2+ save and keeping the extra attacks from extra arms is great and the battleshock is awesome (rip squads of 3 though), Kanz look decent and suprising that their Big Shootas are significantly better than other variants in the index, even the Mork/Gorkanaut don't look half bad and actually get bonuses during a WAAAGH!
- Shokk Attack Gun looks like it could actually be fun to use again and can hide in a unit of Mek Gunz.

Negative impressions:
- Lootas are weird with how they made them the only shooty unit that hits on a 6+ baseline. Pretty much forces you to stay still or get buffed by a Mek when you're in a transport/battlewagon. Don't think the rerolls compensate for this and the stats for the deffgun are also subpar compared to normal autocannon stats now (S9, damage 3). I feel like you have better units for long range firepower
- Boyz units special datasheet ability feels very decidedly "meh" and contingent on having a warboss attached. I feel like they should have had something based around being able to fight in three ranks or something reflecting the Green Tide when near obejctives rather than a morale thing.
- Tankbustas, good Gork nowhere is the "no model, no rules policy" clearer than this. It sucks because their actual rules don't look bad, it's the fact that their fixed loadout and unit cap cripples what could be a potentially functional unit. Dreadful and forces you to take 3 units of 5 in a battlewagon to come remotely close to being useful.
- Some of the buggies are kinda weird, like the Snazzwagon, where you would think the cloud of smoke should work more like the DA Darkshroud, you have to force yourself into combat to give penalties to your opponent
- I'm surprised that I haven't heard many negative things about Meganobz? Not crazy that we're capped at 6 now for a unit and more importantly I'm shocked they have only 2(!) attacks with the Killsaws, even for the twin version. Even with WAAAGH! buffs....that's absurdly low for a Nob unit, you'd think it'd be at least 3. Even the MA Mek has 3 with his Killsaw.
- The bombers we have are trash, pretty much shelved until further notice.
- grabbin klaw and wreckin ball are missed opportunities to give more flavour to vehicle options
- no assault ramp rule anywhere, which is disappointing for a very assault oriented army
- shootas are never going to be taken still

That's my first thoughts, so overall more positive than negative, but very interested in seeing what the missions look like so we can see how we play with our units towards objectives.

Agreed on all points. Tankbustas got hit in the nards, the only saving grace is with no force ork if they're cheap you can just have 3 units wandering around.

Lootas may be useful as overwatch? The volume of fire is okay and hitting on sixes doesn't matter there. Pop them in a battle wagon and drive to within 24 inches for rapid.

Meganobz are indeed a weird unit atm. You can make them pretty durable with a megamek, or add to their killiness with Ghaz. Shame Banner can't join. Tossing up if i'd bother with the megaboss. As for loadout, klaw and kombi seems the be the workhorse loadout, more attacks and all.

Boyz do feel like, I unno, character caddies? Also the only bloody way we can have 2 characters in a unit.

yep agreed too. I think flash gitz depending on points could be pretty good or even great especially for overwatch (though they probably will be as good as dead as soon as you disembark them from a transport).

Painboy/painboss I think are really gonna be the core of a lot of our armies to survive the onslaught of mw and just general durability so I'm really hoping they are reasonably costed.

cody.d. wrote:
Agreed on all points. Tankbustas got hit in the nards, the only saving grace is with no force ork if they're cheap you can just have 3 units wandering around.

Lootas may be useful as overwatch? The volume of fire is okay and hitting on sixes doesn't matter there. Pop them in a battle wagon and drive to within 24 inches for rapid.

Meganobz are indeed a weird unit atm. You can make them pretty durable with a megamek, or add to their killiness with Ghaz. Shame Banner can't join. Tossing up if i'd bother with the megaboss. As for loadout, klaw and kombi seems the be the workhorse loadout, more attacks and all.

Boyz do feel like, I unno, character caddies? Also the only bloody way we can have 2 characters in a unit.

Definitely feels like we got gimped in terms of not having more variety in terms of having more units that can take 2 characters or characters having the lieutenant rule of being added on with another Leader, I feel like most of our Oddboyz units like Weirdboyz, Big Meks, and Painboyz should have had this rider so it doesn't feel like we're cutting characters out just because we can't fit them with a bodyguard unit. As it is, it feels like the arbitrary nature of the limited lists of which characters can join which unit really limits some of the synergies we can pull off.

 JohnU wrote:
Guess we better hope our opponents aren't too strict on WYSIWYG when it comes to BWs with deffrollas the way GW has it currently worded.

Gonna have to rip off those wheels if you want a deffrolla

I'm wondering whether the Mekboy's healing ability for vehicles can be stacked with the Mek Workshop's healing ability, for 2 x d3 wounds back per turn.

Mekaniak: At the end of your Movement phase, you can select one friendly Orks Vehicle model within 3" of this model. That Vehicle model regains up to D3 lost wounds, and, until the start of your next Movement phase, each time that Vehicle model makes an attack, add 1 to the Hit roll. Each model can only be selected for this ability once per turn.

Workshop: When this Fortification is set up, all parts of it must be set up within 1” of another part. At the end of your Movement phase, each friendly Orks Vehicle model within 12” of this Fortification can regain up to D3 lost wounds (roll separately for each model). Each model can only be affected by this ability once per turn.

It's the two words 'up to' which makes me think know but it's not explicit.

Also the Fortification rule is weirdly worded, can't make sense of it at all.

tneva82 wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:


I dont know what the difference is on those things.

But you cant put the same rules on orks as you do on space marines. We build models out of literal trash, they dont.
.

Sorry but that's double standards.

If you want to play loose with wysiwyg fine. But if you then expect your opponent to be strict with wysiwyg that turns you into tfg jerk.

It goes both way. You can't have special exception just because your army.

Now as long as you have no issue with opponent being equally loose with wysiwyg no problem. But if you don't follow wysiwyg don't expect opponent either.

Lets play: Spot the space marine main. Oh, i found him.

You wanna call out an ork player for having cool and varied Mek Gunz? Sure why not.

Having a different mek gun firing head is not the same thing as using two different kinds of actual tanks on the field. At best it would be the same as either using a plasma weapon but calling it the weapon those hellblaster squads have instead. The weapons are much identical in terms of what they do and how they look so i wouldnt care at all and wouldnt know the difference.

But i dont run a battlewagon and call it a kill tank either.

To be fair, no TO is going to care about your mek gun firing heads. He will only look at you weirdly for wasting his time

 PaddyMick wrote:
I'm wondering whether the Mekboy's healing ability for vehicles can be stacked with the Mek Workshop's healing ability, for 2 x d3 wounds back per turn.

Mekaniak: At the end of your Movement phase, you can select one friendly Orks Vehicle model within 3" of this model. That Vehicle model regains up to D3 lost wounds, and, until the start of your next Movement phase, each time that Vehicle model makes an attack, add 1 to the Hit roll. Each model can only be selected for this ability once per turn.

Workshop: When this Fortification is set up, all parts of it must be set up within 1” of another part. At the end of your Movement phase, each friendly Orks Vehicle model within 12” of this Fortification can regain up to D3 lost wounds (roll separately for each model). Each model can only be affected by this ability once per turn.

It's the two words 'up to' which makes me think know but it's not explicit.

Also the Fortification rule is weirdly worded, can't make sense of it at all.

The exact components of a mekshop is also more fuzzy. Last edition it was the building, 3 barricades and 3 scrap piles now it's... I dunno. Just the building? Everything in the kit? If it's everything you can daisy chain them and give a huge portion of your army (vehicles at least) d3 wounds a turn.

Burnaboyz have some legs this edition. D6 flamers, re-rolling wounds if you can get up close(Though it is model by model. LAAAAAME). followed by a couple AP2 melee swings. Could do some damage, be useful in transports. Shame they don't have assault though, GW has been real stingy with that rule.

I'm disappointed with the index cause the only good thing left are snaggas in a wagon.
Man's have hilariously low number of attacks, scrap jets are nerfed loosing half the firepower for no good reason

The more I read the rules, the more I' m afraid this is not a Speedwaagh age.

All buggies are clearly worse in shooting than before. Mostly significantly worse.
Koptas down from 2D3 rokkits to D3 rokkits.
KBB burna exhausts down to 50%
MSJ rokkit kannon from average 6 to 4,5 shots and new Twin big shoota with 5/3!! Shots instead of 20/12 and half range? Pathetic. And rules say “one twin big shoota” on the model with the fix equippement, that has obviously 4 big shootas…
Warbikers dakkaguns went down from 10/6 to 5/3

Only one that works is the indirect firing Squig buggy. And we all know what powerfull indirect means - nerf of the whole indirect across the board very soon.

There are no synergies. There are no rules for shooting and vehicles.

Except simple Mek giving ONE MODEL +1 to hit.

This mean, good idea to use this mek on Nauts or Stompa or Transports with the shooting infantry. But waste of the points on buggies, unless simple Mek is 10p or something.

Yes, few interesting abilities and slightly better melee profiles and inbuilt 6++. But with the T7 no protection againts S4 weapons and sorry. Buggies was pretty soft in the speedwaagh with 5++ already…
And mostly cannot shoot and advance, so it is a slowwaagh back again..


There is a lot of stuff to play with with the beastsnagga units and meganobz and characters. That is nice.

But unless it' s like 50p per buggy my wonderfull buggies goes propably to the box again… sad.

 Tomsug wrote:
The more I read the rules, the more I' m afraid this is not a Speedwaagh age.

All buggies are clearly worse in shooting than before. Mostly significantly worse.
Koptas down from 2D3 rokkits to D3 rokkits.
KBB burna exhausts down to 50%
MSJ rokkit kannon from average 6 to 4,5 shots and new Twin big shoota with 3!! Shots instead of 20/12?? Pathetic. And rules say “one twin big shoota” on the model with the fix equippement. that has obviously 4 big shootas…

Only one that works is the indirect firing Squig buggy. And we all know what powerfull indirect means - nerf of the whole indirect across the board very soon.

There are no synergies. There are no rules for shooting and vehicles.

Except simple Mek giving ONE MODEL +1 to hit.

This mean, good idea to use this mek on Nauts or Stompa or Transports with the shooting infantry. But waste of the points on buggies, unless simple Mek is 10p or something.

There is a lot of stuff to play with with the beastsnagga units and meganobz and characters. That is nice.

But my wonderfull buggies goes propably to the box again… sad.

I do think that this is the problem with the index, and it's pushing another variant of Goff pressure effectively and doubling down the majority of the datasheets towards that. Unfortunately, I believe until we get our codex we won't have the variety of other detachments giving clearer buffs or synergy to more mechanized/speed freek/dakka-based oriented lists. Between the anti-synergy of the Wartrike (+1 hit for bikers...in melee?) and other units like the Shokkjump Dragsta basically almost never using the Shokk Tunnel rule since it lacks assault weapons, alongside the lack of ability to increase damage output for a lot of the ranged units, I feel like the main difference we'll see is just blobs of boyz with HQ support as the main change in our army lists.

Another question, can I use the Ere we go strat on a unit coming in from deep strike? There's nothing I can find in the core rules to say strats can only affect units on the table.

WHEN: Start of your Movement phase.
TARGET: One Orks Infantry unit from
your army

Mega Nobz having so few attacks is really weird yes, even given that they still hit on 4s so nothing makes up for the few attacks.


It feels like they are mainly damage sponges now, being able to get that sweet 4+ invul and ressurrects and all that from the Big mek.

Im really interested in seeing the points as that will make or break a lot of our units.

 PaddyMick wrote:
Another question, can I use the Ere we go strat on a unit coming in from deep strike? There's nothing I can find in the core rules to say strats can only affect units on the table.

WHEN: Start of your Movement phase.
TARGET: One Orks Infantry unit from
your army

RAW seems like it, otherwise the Rapid Ingress stratagem would not work.

 PaddyMick wrote:
Another question, can I use the Ere we go strat on a unit coming in from deep strike? There's nothing I can find in the core rules to say strats can only affect units on the table.

WHEN: Start of your Movement phase.
TARGET: One Orks Infantry unit from
your army

Looking at the core rules, the movement phase works in 4 stages.

1. Phase begins
2. Move units
3. Reinforcements/Deep strike
4. Phase ends

So I would interpret the strat as being usable during stage 1 only, so not on anything coming in from deep strike.

That's how I'm reading it anyway

 Jidmah wrote:

 PaddyMick wrote:
Another question, can I use the Ere we go strat on a unit coming in from deep strike? There's nothing I can find in the core rules to say strats can only affect units on the table.

WHEN: Start of your Movement phase.
TARGET: One Orks Infantry unit from
your army

RAW seems like it, otherwise the Rapid Ingress stratagem would not work.

Why does that work? Ere we go is used at the start of the movement phase (i think), but reserves come in at the end of the movement (again, i think), does it not? So there is an overlap that prevents us from being able to use it i think.


There is going to be a ton of loose wysiwyg with us using nobs going forward. Most of us have both nobz with double choppas, killsaws and big choppas with a normal choppa to the side.

Neither of which are usable now. Hopefully the TOs are going to be lenient towards us ork players Nobz

gungo wrote:
AFAIK a units datasheet abilities do not transfer when they embark. You only add the weapon profile to the vehicle as a firing deck weapon option.. not tankbusta rules or loota rules or flashgitz rules… or leader auras etc…. so it’s limited

That's right, and that's also why I was really hoping Lootas would stay BS 5+ on the Deffgun. By making them 6+ Default and Heavy it heavily discourages putting them in a Battlewagon since you lose all the fun things that help out your accuracy. Now they're in a tough spot where if you put them on a backfield objective with good visibility, your opponent has just as much visibility and can remove them readily. Putting them behind LOS blocking cover to prevent the 1st turn alpha strike means they'll move and lose the Heavy bonus. That's a toughnut to crack but I'm looking forward to using them regardless

Afrodactyl wrote:

 JohnU wrote:
Guess we better hope our opponents aren't too strict on WYSIWYG when it comes to BWs with deffrollas the way GW has it currently worded.

Gonna have to rip off those wheels if you want a deffrolla

 Tomsug wrote:
The more I read the rules, the more I' m afraid this is not a Speedwaagh age.

Yes, few interesting abilities and slightly better melee profiles and inbuilt 6++. But with the T7 no protection againts S4 weapons and sorry. Buggies was pretty soft in the speedwaagh with 5++ already…
And mostly cannot shoot and advance, so it is a slowwaagh back again..

Thanks for posting this, I really love the new buggies but they do look quite a bit worse. It's also disappointing our detachment rule is a melee boost only, sustained hits on shooting would be great considering how many shots a lot of them lost. The Snazzwagon and Boomablasta have some interesting abilities, but with the profiles the way they are I don't think I'm going to run them unless they're very cheap (or until we get a proper speedwaagh detachment in the codex). I also noticed the buggy's are single model now instead of a squadron hmm

Beardedragon wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 PaddyMick wrote:
Another question, can I use the Ere we go strat on a unit coming in from deep strike? There's nothing I can find in the core rules to say strats can only affect units on the table.

WHEN: Start of your Movement phase.
TARGET: One Orks Infantry unit from
your army

RAW seems like it, otherwise the Rapid Ingress stratagem would not work.

Why does that work? Ere we go is used at the start of the movement phase (i think), but reserves come in at the end of the movement (again, i think), does it not? So there is an overlap that prevents us from being able to use it i think.

Units in reserves are still units in your army, and as of now nothing prevents you from using stratagems on units off the table, unless they are inside a transport.

There is going to be a ton of loose wysiwyg with us using nobs going forward. Most of us have both nobz with double choppas, killsaws and big choppas with a normal choppa to the side.

Neither of which are usable now. Hopefully the TOs are going to be lenient towards us ork players Nobz

Pretty much every army is in the same boat. For close combat weapons across the whole game, WYSIWYG is pretty much model whatever the hell you want, just make sure your opponent and you can differentiate between the weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Boyz Warboss Big Mek with Kustom Force Field Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun Mek Weirdboy Mad Dok Grotsnik Painboy Nob with Waaagh! Banner Beast Snagga Boyz Beastboss Painboss Wurrboy Meganobz Ghazghkull Thraka Warboss in Mega Armour Big Mek in Mega Armour Nobz Warboss Big Mek with Kustom Force Field Mek Mad Dok Grotsnik Painboy Nob with Waaagh! Banner Burna Boyz Big Mek with Kustom Force Field Mad Dok Grotsnik Painboy Tankbustas Big Mek with Kustom Force Field Mek Mad Dok Grotsnik Painboy Lootas Big Mek with Kustom Force Field Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun Mek Mad Dok Grotsnik Painboy Mek Gunz Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun Mek Kommandos Boss Snikrot Stormboyz Boss Zagstruk Warbikers Defkilla Wartrike Flash Gitz Kaptin Badrukk Squighog Boyz Nob on Smasha Squig Gretchin Zodgrod Wortsnagga

I was bored and sick of flipping pages... enjoy!

Beardedragon wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 PaddyMick wrote:
Another question, can I use the Ere we go strat on a unit coming in from deep strike? There's nothing I can find in the core rules to say strats can only affect units on the table.

WHEN: Start of your Movement phase.
TARGET: One Orks Infantry unit from
your army

RAW seems like it, otherwise the Rapid Ingress stratagem would not work.

Why does that work? Ere we go is used at the start of the movement phase (i think), but reserves come in at the end of the movement (again, i think), does it not? So there is an overlap that prevents us from being able to use it i think.


There is going to be a ton of loose wysiwyg with us using nobs going forward. Most of us have both nobz with double choppas, killsaws and big choppas with a normal choppa to the side.

Neither of which are usable now. Hopefully the TOs are going to be lenient towards us ork players Nobz

It's opponent move phase not your's. You use ingress after opponent has moved.

WHEN: End of your opponent’s Movement phase.
TARGET: One unit from your army that is in Reserves.
EFFECT: Your unit can arrive on the battlefield
as if it were the Reinforcements step of your
Movement phase.
RESTRICTIONS: You cannot use this Stratagem to
enable a unit to arrive on the battlefield during a
battle round it would not normally be able to do so in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:


Mob rule is actually a headscratcher to me. Is there a way to use it at all? You have to use it in your command phase, and it only lasts till the end of the command phase - which means you can only use other command phase stratagems which are... *checks books* ... just insane bravery?

It's very likely a typo else it wont do anything, expect it to change to battleround or turn, they mentioned it on tabletop titans game drukari vs orks.

I was not talking about the rapid ingress though.

Art of war mentioned that Mob rule being a typo as you say yes. It probably is, otherwise Mob Rule makes no sense

Beardedragon wrote:
I was not talking about the rapid ingress though.

Art of war mentioned that Mob rule being a typo as you say yes. It probably is, otherwise Mob Rule makes no sense

His point was that if rapid ingress can target units outside of the game, every stratagem can.

 koooaei wrote:
I'm disappointed with the index cause the only good thing left are snaggas in a wagon.
Man's have hilariously low number of attacks, scrap jets are nerfed loosing half the firepower for no good reason

I dunno base 5x powerklaw manz and warboss in mega armor in a trukk is amazingly strong
(during a Waagh)
4x pk atks at 3+ with devastating wounds per model
Add another trukk of 5 meganobs w ghaz and he adds lethal hits.

I mean 40x atks at str10 ap-2 2damage (and exploding 6s …sustained hit 1)
(with auto wound on 6 to hit and extra mortal wound on 6 to wound or lethal hit)
My math is probably off but that should comes out to ~22 mortal wounds.
And you can use unbridled carnage strat to double those mortal wounds from a unit for potentially 33+ mortal wounds. (Again my head math may be off)

That’s brutal and a lot of powerful melee atks without adding ghaz/warboss in mega armor atks.
(you can add a third warboss and 5meganob trukk for more atks too)

I mean ghaz in a trukk is going to be nerfed so this trick won’t last…and it’s really only brutal during the Waagh when you can stack lethal hits, Sustained hits, and devastating wounds with the extra plus 1 str/atk.

Ok these are my takes, take them with a grain of salt, i been looking at this forum now and some reports.
At first i felt that generally let down, but after i kept reading i came around. I feel we are going to be solid, and when i mean solid is, we will be a very hard to shift army opposed to killy.

Something to look at:
-We have amazing access to 5+++fnp, really hard to describe but plenty of this i expect doing full armies based on this, and since there is no more rules to ignore fnp i will take advantage, from 4fnp on a single character to docs etc this is amazing
-beast boss on squid, amazing profile, even more for epic character, expect it to be shot at, reserve -1 wound strat and watch your opponent cry
-gretching amazing cp farmer's, everyone will want them in a army, multiples, even if we can only get 1 cp the OC more then makes you want multiples
-big mek, oh boy this is the right choice with meganobz, all other options just can't make up to it, slap a 4fnp and you have a beefy guy that revives beefy guy's every turn unless opponent deletes them, and if he tries precision 4fnp get's you covered
-zodgrod has now one of the best buffs in the game, not my words, art of war's and i agree to the point of considering buying, scout into mid field and steal 1 objective? yes SIR! -1wound! Gold! +1 to hot +1 to wound! Gravy
-Nobz are also one of the winner's, like to play warboss? Like claws and damage? These are the ones for you, i think we are finally seeing a shift here, where nobz are the dps option and meganobs the defensive option. Don't be fooled, -1 to wound all the time plus cover will make them difficult to handle and with claws or big chopas they will be a nightmare.
-flash gitz, give them rerolls with bradduck plus lethal from ammo run and you have a solid and killy profile
-deff dreads, yep silly has it looks 8'M + S2 6++ is an amazing solid profile that is difficult to handle, stick them in the middle of a fight and we have battle shocks popping everywhere
- buggies prizes is shockjump and rukkatruck, seems to be the winners, stick a mek on them and you have some very solid platforms
-mek is the biggest winner, this guy made it from obscurity to pretty much auto pick, even if you only have dreads or mek guns you will want the +1 to hit, reserve a spot, also considering buying
-airplanes is the same old dakkajet and wazboom
-transports, the battlewagon just got even better, remember mek can give it +1, rolla hitting on 2 will be hilarious, explodes and careen in to midlle of armies for laughts, anyway i think the missing ramp is a big loss but i am not sure i care
-mek guns, ahh yes the hidden gem that art of war tipped off, you see the tractor cannon? Welcome to our new mortal wound Overlord, 3 shots from 3 mek guns on 3BS with mek and anti-fly with devastating, not sure everyone knows but fly is a very common key word, even if it does not have, 1 shot S10 BS3 D6+1 is in my humble opinion very good, oh also rerolls for 1 if shooting into 10 bodies infantries. For unbelievers there is always KMC, for those that like the bubbleshukka, art of war glossed over something important, you roll the weapon profile before selecting targets, so it can still be useful to roll each and pair each gun to the correct opponent.
-Squigboy, oh my god, anti everything, check, ignore move modifiers, CHECK, has a decent leader that gives it +1 to hit, Oh boy! I am going to run packs of these, extra points to anyone who noticed their mounted keyword is really rare and also noted the 5fnp the decent save + cover and T7 and 3 wounds, another mazing profile against what ever comes our way which benefit's from beast boss on squig too.
-kill rigs are still amazing but hunter rigs are the beastsnagga wagon, 6fnp instead of a invuln, but the power is really good with extra S on any ork unit in the fight phase, no longer a character, still vehicle, give it a meck lol
-stormboyz can charge on advance even if limited to 10 bodies

So far that's what i believe are the best points, there are more if you guy's look into it, i will keep reading
Some of the sour points:
-ghaz, look what GW did to my boy :( ,well DoA, while a decent beat stick, if it keeps the point's coupled with the unit it comes with etc, i am not sure it will see tables
-Warboss in Mega Armor, i was done dirty since it comes with patrol, not seeing it outside of making a meganobz bomb from wagon, but honestly prefer running nobz bomb, will come to point's ofc
-rest bugies, having trouble even considering use
-warbikes, from staple to meh, if pricy will never be on table, i actually think this is one of the biggest losers, losing -1 to hit, auto advance and shot's, for twin linked and extra AP on closest, meh, that's not their role, unless a detachment makes those shot's worth it, no thx.
-defkoptas, will need to test, but with out mek? not sure their worth it, will depend on points, even melee got them nerfed, not a fan.. not that they seem they have any fan's going around hehe
-tankbustas, 3 rockets? hammer no longer MW on hit? the rule is amazing but that's it, will come down to points, but probably never touch them
-lootas, bad guns, i am just baffled at how bad.. not touching this i don't see a reason why, but their might be a detachment that would make use of them...
-gorkanaugh and morkanaugh... ehhhh why bother unless points reflect it, not even going there.
- all other planes that i did not speak aren't worth it
-our fortifications are for laugh's and fluff

Shout out to anyone that uses a stompa, give feedback please, lol
That's all i recall so far, thought's?

 Jidmah wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
I was not talking about the rapid ingress though.

Art of war mentioned that Mob rule being a typo as you say yes. It probably is, otherwise Mob Rule makes no sense

His point was that if rapid ingress can target units outside of the game, every stratagem can.

oh.. well thats a point i missed. And that actually makes sense.

Depending on the cost, the Morkanaut seems pretty decent. You get +1 to hit to your shooting on your waaagh turn so you actually shoot enemies on a +4 and it has a 5++ because of its KFF. If its not too expensive, this might not be too bad.

And if the Stompa remains not too expensive, getting it buffed by a mini mek would also be amazing.

 Jidmah wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
I was not talking about the rapid ingress though.

Art of war mentioned that Mob rule being a typo as you say yes. It probably is, otherwise Mob Rule makes no sense

His point was that if rapid ingress can target units outside of the game, every stratagem can.

Yeah i misread that one, but rapid ingress specifically targets reserves.
But you can use it in conjunction with rapid ingress anyway, the unit is dropped on the table at the end of your opponent's move phase, and ere we go is only targeted on your move phase so yes it's possible.

But i am not sure you can use it directly from reserves since it's not specially stated on strat, in doubt i would rule you can't. But that's a good question.

While I do think the megaMek is awesome.
I don’t think it’s the only leader you want for meganobs…
He’s only 4+ invul to unit from shooting
And reroll 1 to hit shooting
All of which don’t work inside a trukk….

His coolest benefit is the bring back model but meganobs aren’t designed for shooting… and those buffs conflict with detachment and army rules which mostly benefit melee… exploding 6s, +1 str/atk in melee…

I think a warboss in mega armor benefits the meganob more in the trukk man missile.
He gives meganobs +1 to hit in melee making those dual killsaw a reliable 3+ to hit profile…

Beardedragon wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
I was not talking about the rapid ingress though.

Art of war mentioned that Mob rule being a typo as you say yes. It probably is, otherwise Mob Rule makes no sense

His point was that if rapid ingress can target units outside of the game, every stratagem can.

oh.. well thats a point i missed. And that actually makes sense.

Depending on the cost, the Morkanaut seems pretty decent. You get +1 to hit to your shooting on your waaagh turn so you actually shoot enemies on a +4 and it has a 5++ because of its KFF. If its not too expensive, this might not be too bad.

And if the Stompa remains not too expensive, getting it buffed by a mini mek would also be amazing.

I dunno mate, I really want to like the morkanaut, but if it comes at premium i wont touch it, it's basically a very bad knight with little rule support. Gorknaugh and morknaugh have been in bad spot for ages now. It's a bit sad but i don't have my hopes up.

Forceride wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
I was not talking about the rapid ingress though.

Art of war mentioned that Mob rule being a typo as you say yes. It probably is, otherwise Mob Rule makes no sense

His point was that if rapid ingress can target units outside of the game, every stratagem can.

oh.. well thats a point i missed. And that actually makes sense.

Depending on the cost, the Morkanaut seems pretty decent. You get +1 to hit to your shooting on your waaagh turn so you actually shoot enemies on a +4 and it has a 5++ because of its KFF. If its not too expensive, this might not be too bad.

And if the Stompa remains not too expensive, getting it buffed by a mini mek would also be amazing.

I dunno mate, I really want to like the morkanaut, but if it comes at premium i wont touch it, it's basically a very bad knight with little rule support. Gorknaugh and morknaugh have been in bad spot for ages now. It's a bit sad but i don't have my hopes up.

Oh for sure, it all comes down to the price on whether its a good unit or not. As with most other things. Im looking forward to seeing the price on Flash Gitz and badrukk for that sweet combo

gungo wrote:
While I do think the megaMek is awesome.
I don’t think it’s the only leader you want for meganobs…
He’s only 4+ invul to unit from shooting
And reroll 1 to hit shooting
All of which don’t work inside a trukk….

His coolest benefit is the bring back model but meganobs aren’t designed for shooting… and those buffs conflict with detachment and army rules which mostly benefit melee… exploding 6s, +1 str/atk in melee…

I think a warboss in mega armor benefits the meganob more in the trukk man missile.
He gives meganobs +1 to hit in melee making those dual killsaw a reliable 3+ rerollable to hit profile…

Not sure mate, not saying it's impossible i did mention the meganobz bomb on a wagon taking 9 meganobz and 2 warboss in mega armor, it will come down to points and it's overshadowed by the nobz. But by the low attacks and low bodies i much rather be looking at the big mek and making them linchpin of the army on the centre making my opponent's life harder seems more efficient, ala distraction carnifex, it will still come down to points. So please take it with a grain of salt

Stratagems specifically give permission when they try to target something that you normally couldn't target, like Careen! or Mob Rule do.

I'm sure it's a goof, but RAW can a wartrike even attach to a unit without having the Character keyword?

Forceride wrote:

gungo wrote:
While I do think the megaMek is awesome.
I don’t think it’s the only leader you want for meganobs…
He’s only 4+ invul to unit from shooting
And reroll 1 to hit shooting
All of which don’t work inside a trukk….

His coolest benefit is the bring back model but meganobs aren’t designed for shooting… and those buffs conflict with detachment and army rules which mostly benefit melee… exploding 6s, +1 str/atk in melee…

I think a warboss in mega armor benefits the meganob more in the trukk man missile.
He gives meganobs +1 to hit in melee making those dual killsaw a reliable 3+ rerollable to hit profile…

Not sure mate, not saying it's impossible i did mention the meganobz bomb on a wagon taking 9 meganobz and 2 warboss in mega armor, it will come down to points and it's overshadowed by the nobz. But by the low attacks and low bodies i much rather be looking at the big mek and making them linchpin of the army on the centre making my opponent's life harder seems more efficient, ala distraction carnifex, it will still come down to points. So please take it with a grain of salt

It’s likely going to be nerfed but the concept still works… mega nobs biggest benefit is devastating wounds melee… stacked with ghaz lethal hits melee aura on 2 units of 5x mega nobs is a brutal 33+ mortal wounds… even at the low 4x atk profile during a waaagh… it’s a trick and they will remove ghaz from the trukk and I suspect devastating wounds rule is going to be meted due to the numerous issues it causes like this.. at which point I suspect ghaz gets shelved and meganobs drop out competitively…and I switch off to squigboss and squigriders combo for decent fast melee profiles…

gungo wrote:

Forceride wrote:

gungo wrote:
While I do think the megaMek is awesome.
I don’t think it’s the only leader you want for meganobs…
He’s only 4+ invul to unit from shooting
And reroll 1 to hit shooting
All of which don’t work inside a trukk….

His coolest benefit is the bring back model but meganobs aren’t designed for shooting… and those buffs conflict with detachment and army rules which mostly benefit melee… exploding 6s, +1 str/atk in melee…

I think a warboss in mega armor benefits the meganob more in the trukk man missile.
He gives meganobs +1 to hit in melee making those dual killsaw a reliable 3+ rerollable to hit profile…

Not sure mate, not saying it's impossible i did mention the meganobz bomb on a wagon taking 9 meganobz and 2 warboss in mega armor, it will come down to points and it's overshadowed by the nobz. But by the low attacks and low bodies i much rather be looking at the big mek and making them linchpin of the army on the centre making my opponent's life harder seems more efficient, ala distraction carnifex, it will still come down to points. So please take it with a grain of salt

It’s likely going to be nerfed but the concept still works… mega nobs biggest benefit is devastating wounds melee… stacked with ghaz lethal hits melee aura on 2 units of 5x mega nobs is a brutal 33+ mortal wounds… even at the low 4x atk profile during a waaagh…

Yeah, i would totally be on board if ghaz could reach them, but if your basing it on that truck oversight i am not sure it's a good idea. Just my 2cents. It's just mobility is always the issue, and depending on ghaz points you still need to make him slog through the field.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
Stratagems specifically give permission when they try to target something that you normally couldn't target, like Careen! or Mob Rule do.

It does? was under the impression otherwise, that does open some neat combos then. I will still take light step's and wait for a FaQ.

Forceride wrote:

gungo wrote:

Forceride wrote:

gungo wrote:
While I do think the megaMek is awesome.
I don’t think it’s the only leader you want for meganobs…
He’s only 4+ invul to unit from shooting
And reroll 1 to hit shooting
All of which don’t work inside a trukk….

His coolest benefit is the bring back model but meganobs aren’t designed for shooting… and those buffs conflict with detachment and army rules which mostly benefit melee… exploding 6s, +1 str/atk in melee…

I think a warboss in mega armor benefits the meganob more in the trukk man missile.
He gives meganobs +1 to hit in melee making those dual killsaw a reliable 3+ rerollable to hit profile…

Not sure mate, not saying it's impossible i did mention the meganobz bomb on a wagon taking 9 meganobz and 2 warboss in mega armor, it will come down to points and it's overshadowed by the nobz. But by the low attacks and low bodies i much rather be looking at the big mek and making them linchpin of the army on the centre making my opponent's life harder seems more efficient, ala distraction carnifex, it will still come down to points. So please take it with a grain of salt

It’s likely going to be nerfed but the concept still works… mega nobs biggest benefit is devastating wounds melee… stacked with ghaz lethal hits melee aura on 2 units of 5x mega nobs is a brutal 33+ mortal wounds… even at the low 4x atk profile during a waaagh…

Yeah, i would totally be on board if ghaz could reach them, but if your basing it on that truck oversight i am not sure it's a good idea. Just my 2cents. It's just mobility is always the issue, and depending on ghaz points you still need to make him slog through the field.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
Stratagems specifically give permission when they try to target something that you normally couldn't target, like Careen! or Mob Rule do.

It does? was under the impression otherwise, that does open some neat combos then. I will still take light step's and wait for a FaQ.

I agree… I also think devastating wound keyword will get nerfed it has brought up numerous issues and situations like this.

 JohnU wrote:
I'm sure it's a goof, but RAW can a wartrike even attach to a unit without having the Character keyword?

Some Character units have ‘Leader’ listed on their
datasheets. Such Character units are known as
Leaders, and the units they can lead – known as their
Bodyguard units – are listed on their datasheet.
During the Declare Battle Formations step, for each
Leader in your army, if your army also includes one
or more of that Leader’s Bodyguard units, you can
select one of those Bodyguard units. That Leader will
then attach to that Bodyguard unit for the duration
of the battle and is said to be leading that unit. Each
Bodyguard unit can only have one Leader attached
to it.

does not look like your forced to by raw, hence you your not fored to attach a mek to a unit, also nothing about character requirement. You unit does inherit the leader keywords mind you

I'm really unsure about all this devastating wounds stuff. Sure, there are some combos generating insane numbers, but outside of that it feels like are trying to upgrade from rock-paper-scissors to rock-paper-scissors-spock-lizard.
We used to have just light infantry, heavy infantry, light vehicles/bikes and tanks. 10th seems to have spread to more different targets, so vehicles have different defensive profiles from monsters/walkers and mounted units are different from light vehicles now.

So devastating wounds are the counter to durable units with invulnerable saves, like terminators and monsters, but aren't as great against vehicles or hordes.

Whether that works out in the end remains to be seen.

 Jidmah wrote:
I'm really unsure about all this devastating wounds stuff. Sure, there are some combos generating insane numbers, but outside of that it feels like are trying to upgrade from rock-paper-scissors to rock-paper-scissors-spock-lizard.
We used to have just light infantry, heavy infantry, light vehicles/bikes and tanks. 10th seems to have spread to more different targets, so vehicles have different defensive profiles from monsters/walkers and mounted units are different from light vehicles now.

So devastating wounds are the counter to durable units with invulnerable saves, like terminators and monsters, but aren't as great against vehicles or hordes.

Whether that works out in the end remains to be seen.

Not a fan of devastating wounds as well, got agree, much rather they kept the anti profile and got rid of devastating wounds

Forceride wrote:
Not a fan of devastating wounds as well, got agree, much rather they kept the anti profile and got rid of devastating wounds

Or maybe just break the interaction between the two rules, just like lethal hits and devastating wounds don't interact either.

On the flip side, this interaction often seems to be intended (haywire), so maybe it's expected behavior? I mean, I'd rather have Thrakka and 5 MANz charge me than Lion El'Johnson and a squad of 5 Deathwing Knights, devastating wound or no.

Yeah if they break the interaction between Anti and Devastating Wounds I think that will get rid of a lot of heartburn.

Treating Anti as "always Wound on X+" like armorbane would work just fine.

I can live with that.

New thread is up, please continue any discussions there:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/810314.page#11550283

The points are here!

I think I'd prefer Killsaws getting the anti vehicle treatment over devastating wounds. Trading off an attack compared to the PK for the ability to threaten every vehicle would be much more worthwhile IMO.

gungo wrote:While I do think the megaMek is awesome.
I don’t think it’s the only leader you want for meganobs…
He’s only 4+ invul to unit from shooting
And reroll 1 to hit shooting
All of which don’t work inside a trukk….

His coolest benefit is the bring back model but meganobs aren’t designed for shooting… and those buffs conflict with detachment and army rules which mostly benefit melee… exploding 6s, +1 str/atk in melee…

I think a warboss in mega armor benefits the meganob more in the trukk man missile.
He gives meganobs +1 to hit in melee making those dual killsaw a reliable 3+ to hit profile…

I think the MegaManz unit is best suited for dumping them on an objective and just being an obnoxious unit to remove.

6 MANz and a KFF MegaMek is 23 T6 2+ wounds with a 4++ against shooting, and puts out a not insignificant amount of shoota fire with rerolled 1s to clear away chaff infantry with better OC. Anything that tries to fight you for it is getting smacked. You can then start restoring models when you take damage or restore a handful of wounds with the oiler.

That's decently tough to shift regardless of whether you try to shoot them off or fight them.

It's not the killiest unit, but it is pretty hard to shift.

Ghazzy is 235 points at least.

But a lot of things seem more expensive than what i would have wanted.

but MAYBE thats because all upgrades are just.. free? or am i missing something. I dont see an upgrade point sheet for weapons and such.

235 Ghaz :(

Painguyz are a bit expensive too. Killrig too.

points are now a non custom "package" .

 thori wrote:
235 Ghaz :(

Painguyz are a bit expensive too. Killrig too.

i mean.. he used to be 300 points. At least hes down in points now.

But a lot of other things have either gone up or not down at all. But i dont see any weapons costs for nobz and mega nobz and such.. I wonder if you can just give them what ever weapon you want and its free.

Both morkanaut and gorkanaut are down in price too. Stompa for, inexplicit reasons, are up to 800 points.

 Jidmah wrote:
New thread is up, please continue any discussions there:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/810314.page#11550283

Please use the new thread. I will request this one to be locked while everyone is reading through the points (which can be found in the new thread)

Oh wow that was fast.

You do Gods work Jidmah

Question - are wargear options free or something?

Am I missing the points values for those? I take it they are either trying to bake those into the unit costs as some kind of a power level analogue or the wargear is going to be released separately?

 TedNugent wrote:
Question - are wargear options free or something?

Am I missing the points values for those? I take it they are either trying to bake those into the unit costs as some kind of a power level analogue or the wargear is going to be released separately?

Heads up that this thread will be closed soon and you probably want to head over to the new thread that Jidmah just made. However, to answer your question, wargear options are now all free and baked into the cost of the unit. This also means fixed unit costs, you can bring 8 models instead of 10 for Nobz, but you'll still pay the full cost for 10.