I just had my first game with my newly acquired stompa.
Made a Freebootas list with ghaz, the stompa, 3x1 scrapjets, a unit of 2 snazzwagons, 2 scorcha grot mega tanks and a dakka jet. Well with 3x10 grots and 5 lone kommandos as well.
I went up against world eaters and absolutely face rolled them. The stompa melted them pretty good. was a 92-59 victory to da Orks.
Made a Freebootas list with ghaz, the stompa, 3x1 scrapjets, a unit of 2 snazzwagons, 2 scorcha grot mega tanks and a dakka jet. Well with 3x10 grots and 5 lone kommandos as well.
I went up against world eaters and absolutely face rolled them. The stompa melted them pretty good. was a 92-59 victory to da Orks.
Congrats on the crushing victory! How easy was it for you to get the +1 to hit proc for your stompa? Your list doesn't seem to be lacking in dakka, so I'm assuming you had a solid time picking off Berserker or Jakhal units to give your Stompa primed up for krumping.
Made a Freebootas list with ghaz, the stompa, 3x1 scrapjets, a unit of 2 snazzwagons, 2 scorcha grot mega tanks and a dakka jet. Well with 3x10 grots and 5 lone kommandos as well.
I went up against world eaters and absolutely face rolled them. The stompa melted them pretty good. was a 92-59 victory to da Orks.
Congrats on the crushing victory! How easy was it for you to get the +1 to hit proc for your stompa? Your list doesn't seem to be lacking in dakka, so I'm assuming you had a solid time picking off Berserker or Jakhal units to give your Stompa primed up for krumping.
It was decently easy. He had no Jakhals but a lot of eightbound, exalted ones and some regular berzerkers. I just made sure that my front units were my Stompa (he did not have angron or a bloodthirster so i felt safe even on the frontline) 2 scorcha tanks and Ghaz.
To be fair, at no point did my stompa hit anything on anything better than a 5. During turn 1, only my stompa could see a unit of 5 eightbound, which were killed by the stompa.
During turn 2while i had procced the freebootas culture by murdering a unit, i used my stompa to attack a unit of either eightbound or exalted ones (dont really know which) which were hiding behind a forest, so i only hit on 5s there.
During turn 3, i shot a rhino behind the same forest containing 2 units of berzerkers, after my surviving grot tank had killed a unit of something (i say something because i dont always know what i attacked). So once again, the stompa hit on a 5. Although i was a bit lazy i could have hit on a 4, but i didnt feel like i needed it. It was just a Rhino after all, and i needed it popped so my Dakkajet could unload its guns in to the 2 units of Berzerkers.
Turn 4, i had decimated a decent chunk of his army so actually finding targets to get +1 to hit was a bit difficult . but the stompa got +1 to hit and hit Lord invocatus (Lord Avocado of South America) who was, once again, behind a forest, yet had poked his head out to attack my dakkajet (which had 3 wounds left). So again, i was hitting on 5s.
Turn 5, there was nothing left within the Stompas line of sight. Being a stompa, mobility isnt really the strongest point, so i was somewhat confined to my own half of the map, although i could toe dip the middle objective, which i did.
While the stompa didnt hit on anything better than a 5 other units did. For instance my snazzwagons. Anyhow, i have played melee orks for ages, so im really rusty with properly playing shooty orks, especially freebootas, which actually have you thinking about what to do. I could have probably played more efficiently, but in the end, a victory is definitely a victory. The stompa was charged by, i believe, 6 or 7 Khorne berzerkers, which had been blood tithe buffed to the max, and dealt like 17 wounds or something to the stompa, and i had previously survived an onslaught from some eightbound, so sadly my stompa died by turn 4. Well technically it survived with 4 wounds, but i forgot Stompas dont get ramshackled, so it should have died by turn 4.
(not that it mattered, as he had only 6 khorne berzerkers and 1 chaos spawn left, and i had a grot mega tank, 3 scrapjets + a dakkajet and ghaz left).
He got very much tabled turn 5, although the game was effectively decided by turn 3-4 ish.
While the list was fun and all, i can see it being not super great. He had only 2 characters, so while i ran "Grind them down" and did 12 points on it, i also ran Greentide because i was hoping none of my grots would die (and they didnt, i got 10 points on it) but i also ran Good bits.
I would effectively get no points on either greentide or good bitz if my grots had died to another enemy with actual shooting. Its really crushing how difficult it is to pick secondaries for a shooty ork army. If you take things like good bits and greentide out of the equation, what are you left with? If they have 3 characters, maybe i would swap Greentide for assassinate, but i couldnt this time. And no battlefield supremacy secondaries? If they have decent shooting or shoots outside line of sight, that would take Greentide off the table. Because how would i run engage on all fronts? At least my army isnt made for it. Everything really falls and rises on the survivability of 30 grots. (or at least on 20 of em).
Shooty ork lists are almost entirely forced in to killing games, unless you deem that you can keep at least 20 grots alive, for good bits, and 2 quarters full of 10 grots each.
But i guess all of that doesnt really matter. I made a fun stompa list (though still good), not a competitive one. I dont think a competitive stompa list really exist. Although i am in the process of trying to make, as competitive of a stompa list as possible. To that end, i dont know if the best way to pair a stompa is freebootas, or Goffs. Shooting focus, or Melee. I have also made a stompa list with 3 rigs full of snaggaboys.. I have yet to try it. I have a lot of variants really.
+ Blast is now +1 shot per 5 models.
+ Desperate Escape forces battle-shocked units to essentially take attrition tests when falling back, making it super unattractive for units with expensive models to fall back just to shoot the charger.
o Overwatch is still once per turn stratagem, but can be used during the enemy movement phase. Good for orks as overwatch is a second shooting phase to many of our shooting units, bad for orks because moving close to flamers will end horribly.
- Engagement range has shrunken once again. First row needs base contact to an enemy, second row needs base contact to first row.
- Consolidate moves only happen when the enemy is wiped out and only if it takes you into combat or onto an objective.
blast and engagement range will be a huge problem in 10th for orks :/
especially the need to be in base contact really hampers my enthusiasm
good for elite infantry like SM... horror for hordes and 32mm bois... also fitting big based models into CC (like the rigga, buggies or squigbosses) will be a chore and lots of micromanagment when charging alongside infantry
I agree on engagement range, but I don't see the new blast rules as a big problem. Avoiding blast rules at list building stage has become harder for everyone, so every rokkit we bring (assuming it stays d3 blast), is now +1 shots against pretty much every infantry squad. Marines no longer get a free pass.
On the flip side, getting hit by d6+2 shots instead of flat 6 every time you have more than 10 models is roughly equivalent, but any gun that went from 2d6, 3d6, 4d6 to flat 12, 18 or 24 is now a lot less scary. In that context, it's also worth noting that grenades are gone as weapons, and most blasts will be hit by a reduction of AP while orks are likely to move to 5+ armor.
So a rogal dorn tank or a knight equipped with a twin battlecannon today will hit a unit of 20 ork boyz in cover for 12 attacks, 9 hits, 6 wounds, 6 dead. With the revealed rules, it's 2d6+4 = 11 attacks, 8.66 hits, 4.88 wounds, 4 dead.
Of course, the strength of battlecannons might jump to 10 or higher, but that's still just 5 dead, one less than we have now.
So while the blast rules might sound like they are bad news for orks, in reality it's pretty much a sidegrade against hordes compared to 9th. The only thing I'm worried about is small blasts. But I assume there is something in place to prevent weapons like plasma cannon from more than doubling its shots against horde units.
I was looking forward to finally running some 30 man blobs again, but those blast and engagement range rules pretty much kill that idea. Why does GW hate hordes so much.
@jidmah
still, a 30 unit of boyz being hit by d6 + 6 hits by every blast weapon seems kinda scary, but i get your point.
i think the need for b2b contact in mellee is there to prevent any shenenigans while positioning models for CC... still kinda hurts big units alot!
btw new rules "leaks" from the demo games (all unconfirmed)
- overwatch still a strat, max 24" range
- battleshocked brings OC value to 0
- when falling back while battleshocked (in CC) roll d6 for every model on a 1-2 its removed
- charges and pile in moves must be made in a straight line to closest point of enemy base
RedNoak wrote: @jidmah
still, a 30 unit of boyz being hit by d6 + 6 hits by every blast weapon seems kinda scary, but i get your point.
i think the need for b2b contact in mellee is there to prevent any shenenigans while positioning models for CC... still kinda hurts big units alot!
btw new rules "leaks" from the demo games (all unconfirmed)
- overwatch still a strat, max 24" range
- battleshocked brings OC value to 0 <--- confirmed
- when falling back while battleshocked (in CC) roll d6 for every model on a 1-2 its removed <--- confirmed
- charges and pile in moves must be made in a straight line to closest point of enemy base
Some additional things I just read:
- One guy said blast is actually extra HITS not extra SHOTS which makes my math above obsolete (but still roughly the same ballpark). On the other hand, one free auto-hit when shooting any Kustom-Mega weapons at marines. Hmm.
- cannot mix characters from different sub-factions
- charge is roll range first, then pick targets like AoS
Something to note is that something like a Wyvern (4d6 shots right now) might go to four weapons of 1d6 each, with each weapon having Blast. So it'd quadruple-dip on the Blast rule.
This is NOT something I've seen or heard rumoured, this is purely me guessing, by the way.
JNAProductions wrote: Something to note is that something like a Wyvern (4d6 shots right now) might go to four weapons of 1d6 each, with each weapon having Blast. So it'd quadruple-dip on the Blast rule.
This is NOT something I've seen or heard rumoured, this is purely me guessing, by the way.
JNAProductions wrote: Something to note is that something like a Wyvern (4d6 shots right now) might go to four weapons of 1d6 each, with each weapon having Blast. So it'd quadruple-dip on the Blast rule.
This is NOT something I've seen or heard rumoured, this is purely me guessing, by the way.
Uuh based on what? There's been no weapon profile that does anything similar. Rather we have seen reduced shots.
Which is why I said it’s not based on anything other than guesswork.
It’d be the simplest way of making some weapons more blast than others-so yeah, GW probably would just make a special rule instead of that.
Yeah, it feels like what we've seen on the land raider they're more likely to compress profiles that had excess shots than split them even further.
Overall, very interested to see what the faction focus for Orks will reveal for us regarding what WAAAGH! does and the weapon stats for Rokkit Launchas (AP-2 seems likely now since Lascannons and Meltas didn't change) and Power Klaws.
Would be nice if they had something along the side of "green tide" for Ork infantry to be able to fight in 3 ranks or give us better consolidation rules to make hordes more palatable.
I would like to see the Blast rule written down rather than receive reports of it via smoke signals.
Question 1 is do you get +1 for the first five models or +0 for the first five.
Question 2 is do you get +1 per dice or +1 per gun, as that is where Blast in 9th went wrong with 6~10 model units, it was a massive upgrade on d3 and zero upgrade on 4d6.
Similarly, units with single dice blast guns will be getting crazy numbers compared to tanks with a multi-dice blast gun.
Aa Missile Launcher Havoc squad in 9th is shooting 24 frag missiles into a squad of 30 Boyz, but could be shooting 4d6+30 (44) in 10th.
Or a Super Frag Desolation squad is shooting 15 Castellan and 30 Super Frag in 9th into 30 Boyz but will be shooting 5d3+30 (40) Castellan and 5d3+45 Super Frag (55) for 95 shots total on average.
JNAProductions wrote: Which is why I said it’s not based on anything other than guesswork.
It’d be the simplest way of making some weapons more blast than others-so yeah, GW probably would just make a special rule instead of that.
Why you think weapons are going to be more blast when trend so far been less shots?
2d6 twin linked lot more likely for less shots but higher to wound rate for overall less damage output.
EightFoldPath wrote: I would like to see the Blast rule written down rather than receive reports of it via smoke signals.
Question 1 is do you get +1 for the first five models or +0 for the first five.
Multiple people confirmed that it's +1 for the first five.
Question 2 is do you get +1 per dice or +1 per gun, as that is where Blast in 9th went wrong with 6~10 model units, it was a massive upgrade on d3 and zero upgrade on 4d6.
Not as clear as there was no 2d6 blast weapon in the demo games, but it seems like +1 per dice is unlikely.
Aa Missile Launcher Havoc squad in 9th is shooting 24 frag missiles into a squad of 30 Boyz, but could be shooting 4d6+30 (44) in 10th.
That would still result just in 8-9 casualties, assuming no cover.
I also have feeling that squads of 30 boyz might not even be possible, see daemons codex. Historically, 30 boyz were only taken in edition where you could stack buffs on them, and with engagement range shrinking, it will be strictly inferior to running multiple, smaller squads anyways.
Or a Super Frag Desolation squad is shooting 15 Castellan and 30 Super Frag in 9th into 30 Boyz but will be shooting 5d3+30 (40) Castellan and 5d3+45 Super Frag (55) for 95 shots total on average.
d3 weapons will break the game if unchanged. A squad of tank bustas shooting 15 extra rokkits into a squad of terminators? Not going to happen.
My assumtion is that all those weapons will either not get the blast rule or drop to 1 shot.
Oh worry not mighty jidmah... Rokkits will be 1 shot S8 ap -1, if GW feels generous the d3 will remain... The only keyword I expect is dumbshackle: each time a 1 is rolled, you must put the tip of a furried spiked ork boy helmet between your fingernail and SQUEEZ, ALL WHILE SHOUTING WHAAAAAGH! than you will have the honour of being removed from play by a new model of the venerable Rubicon lieutenant Nr 44.
1. Why people moan about “I cannot take my 30 boyz squad anymore” now or for 10th?
Now, you can take up to 12 troops = 120 boyz without the morale / movement / engagement issue.
10th seems to be like “no more than 6 units of same BATTLELINE” = 6xBoyz and 6x Snaggaboyz = 120 “boyz”.
It used to be 90…
We can play a green tide. No problem. Or do I miss something?
2. Does anybody give it a try?
3. Jidmah - 9th became pretty boring right now. Even I lost the energy to posting there the 23453th variation on Goff list from CI. What about a new topic for 10th ed?
So we've seen the datasheets for big G and big A and both have a trio of abilities they can choose from. Gives a bit of flexibility rather than just one flat aura all the time.
I'm really hoping Ghaz does likewise, it'd be awesome to get some representing his ability to use the different tribes/klans rather than just goffs. One that buffs speedfreeks, one that dakka, movement or sneakiness that sorta thing.
cody.d. wrote: So we've seen the datasheets for big G and big A and both have a trio of abilities they can choose from. Gives a bit of flexibility rather than just one flat aura all the time.
I'm really hoping Ghaz does likewise, it'd be awesome to get some representing his ability to use the different tribes/klans rather than just goffs. One that buffs speedfreeks, one that dakka, movement or sneakiness that sorta thing.
Yeah, I'm hoping Ghaz has a "uniting the klans" kind of aura.
One for a melee buff, one for a dakka buff, one for a movement/morale buff.
Tomsug wrote: 3. Jidmah - 9th became pretty boring right now. Even I lost the energy to posting there the 23453th variation on Goff list from CI. What about a new topic for 10th ed?
Traditionally, I only ever created a new one after the new edition dropped. Otherwise the first few pages people see for the rest of the edition are just speculation.
Considering how unlikely any huge surprises in tactics and list building are in the next month, I'd just use this thread for any 10th edition talk.
That said, I'm not sure I'm going to create a new thread, and if I do, it will absolutely be bare minimum. No rainbow tables, no links to lists.
For one, it's a huge amount of work to maintain those and it has to be redone after each balance update to be worth anything. I'm just not willing to spend the time to generate this amount of content.
Secondly, dakka outside of the ork community has become a toxic pool of negativity that actively reduces my enjoyment of the hobby. Reading and participating with online content has been a big part of the hobby for me, but in the last few years reading and contributing on dakka has ruined my mood on otherwise good days and made bad days worse. I forced myself to take a break and look for other communities. It was a real eye-opener to find that every single other community - even 4chan/tg/ - is less toxic that dakka N&R and 40k general. My general mood has been improving as a result, and is improving more the less I engage with dakka. Literally the only reason I'm still checking this forum are you guys, I very much value the ork community here, and it's one of the best ones around.
Warning, rant:
Spoiler:
The issues I have with dakka are not people with strong opinions that I regularly disagree with like Semper or Daedalus.or Canadian 5th. Arguing and discussing is what forums are for, what I'm here for.
The people who turn this forum into a toxic maelstrom are divided into three groups: For one, all those tinfoils heads who never get tired to interpret every single thing GW does as some sort of evil conspiracy to con people out of their hard earned pocket money and are relentlessly posting this into every single thread after every single post. Everyone knows GW is doing this to get our money, but not everything they do is a ploy. Nothing they write ever adds any value to any discussion.
Then there is are people who just unreasonable hate everything, and are being donkey-caves to everyone who dares enjoy anything about the hobby. These people never get tired telling everyone how awesome the game was 20+ years ago, despite having no real experience with any modern editions. They regularly lie about how much they play, while obviously getting the most basic rules interactions wrong and whining about edge cases which allegedly ruin the game, but rarely ever matter in real life. They blame GW and everyone else for not being able to find games in their preferred edition, kind of like incels blame women for not being able to find a partner when the real issue is that they are just being donkey-caves. Last are people who are just antagonistic at all costs. There are some people who will literally flip their opinion three times a week just to pick a fight with other people. They pop into every thread and take a stance opposite of the majority, just to then start insulting anyone defending their opinion and derailing the thread in the process.
Naturally, I have tried battling these people with the ignore function. Despite my list having grown fourfold in the last years compared to the people I put on ignore during the 10+ years before that, it doesn't work. Entire pages have turned invisible due to the high post rates of those toxic elements, and since many of them intentionally trigger others posters you can't really escape them as you are forced to scroll past quotes of their posts and discussions spawned by them.
Of course, these kind of things should (IMO) be policed by mods. Almost all of them have turned inactive, and the few that remain are unable and/or unwilling to properly moderate the 40k community. Instead they adhere to forum rules which have been written when mobile phones were a new thing, youtube and facebook didn't exist and people actually cared about downloading images larger than a few KB. In a time when posters here on dakka posted dozens of racist attacks, I got a multi-day ban and a warning for responding to a post in orkspeak and for responding to a post with a picture with text on it instead of writing the same text. The racist posters are still around, by way, clearly ork speak and memes are a bigger issue than outright racism. Here on dakka, being a complete donkey-cave to others is perfectly fine to mods as long as you possess the language skills to thinly veil those attacks with flowery words. That is, assuming the rules are enforced at all. Some people have gotten away with shitposting idiotic interpretations of rules all over YMDC for years now, regularly breaking the rules which have been pinned to the top of the very forum - not only killing off any resemblance any community there, but also diminishing its use as a resource for rules questions. During 5th the whole internet pointed to YMDC for unclear rules, today new players are warned to not asking questions on dakka because you always get bad answers.
Speaking of outdated. This forum software does not work well, adheres to almost no moderns standards, is bugged and slow as feth. Most people can't properly handle quotes and spoilers without multiple edits, uploading pictures to different services is faster than uploading to dakka itself, search is worthless, no WYSIWYG editor, and the extra empty pages bug that Legoburner is unable to fix for whatever reason is rampant in almost every thread longer than 10 pages. And let's not get started with how dakka looks on phones. Eventually this forum WILL need to update to a new software. Drawing out the update will just increase the pain when that day comes. If you are no longer interested in maintaining this community, hand it over to someone who is. Or get people on board who help you. There are dozens of developers here on dakka who would gladly help out.
/rant over
TL;DR: I have no big interest in investing time into something that makes dakka a more attractive place for 40k players. In its current state I'd rather see it wither and die, hoping this ork community would then move somewhere else.
Tomsug wrote: 3. Jidmah - 9th became pretty boring right now. Even I lost the energy to posting there the 23453th variation on Goff list from CI. What about a new topic for 10th ed?
Traditionally, I only ever created a new one after the new edition dropped. Otherwise the first few pages people see for the rest of the edition are just speculation.
Considering how unlikely any huge surprises in tactics and list building are in the next month, I'd just use this thread for any 10th edition talk.
That said, I'm not sure I'm going to create a new thread, and if I do, it will absolutely be bare minimum. No rainbow tables, no links to lists.
For one, it's a huge amount of work to maintain those and it has to be redone after each balance update to be worth anything. I'm just not willing to spend the time to generate this amount of content.
Secondly, dakka outside of the ork community has become a toxic pool of negativity that actively reduces my enjoyment of the hobby. Reading and participating with online content has been a big part of the hobby for me, but in the last few years reading and contributing on dakka has ruined my mood on otherwise good days and made bad days worse. I forced myself to take a break and look for other communities. It was a real eye-opener to find that every single other community - even 4chan/tg/ - is less toxic that dakka N&R and 40k general. My general mood has been improving as a result, and is improving more the less I engage with dakka. Literally the only reason I'm still checking this forum are you guys, I very much value the ork community here, and it's one of the best ones around.
Warning, rant:
Spoiler:
The issues I have with dakka are not people with strong opinions that I regularly disagree with like Semper or Daedalus.or Canadian 5th. Arguing and discussing is what forums are for, what I'm here for.
The people who turn this forum into a toxic maelstrom are divided into three groups: For one, all those tinfoils heads who never get tired to interpret every single thing GW does as some sort of evil conspiracy to con people out of their hard earned pocket money and are relentlessly posting this into every single thread after every single post. Everyone knows GW is doing this to get our money, but not everything they do is a ploy. Nothing they write ever adds any value to any discussion.
Then there is are people who just unreasonable hate everything, and are being donkey-caves to everyone who dares enjoy anything about the hobby. These people never get tired telling everyone how awesome the game was 20+ years ago, despite having no real experience with any modern editions. They regularly lie about how much they play, while obviously getting the most basic rules interactions wrong and whining about edge cases which allegedly ruin the game, but rarely ever matter in real life. They blame GW and everyone else for not being able to find games in their preferred edition, kind of like incels blame women for not being able to find a partner when the real issue is that they are just being donkey-caves. Last are people who are just antagonistic at all costs. There are some people who will literally flip their opinion three times a week just to pick a fight with other people. They pop into every thread and take a stance opposite of the majority, just to then start insulting anyone defending their opinion and derailing the thread in the process.
Naturally, I have tried battling these people with the ignore function. Despite my list having grown fourfold in the last years compared to the people I put on ignore during the 10+ years before that, it doesn't work. Entire pages have turned invisible due to the high post rates of those toxic elements, and since many of them intentionally trigger others posters you can't really escape them as you are forced to scroll past quotes of their posts and discussions spawned by them.
Of course, these kind of things should (IMO) be policed by mods. Almost all of them have turned inactive, and the few that remain are unable and/or unwilling to properly moderate the 40k community. Instead they adhere to forum rules which have been written when mobile phones were a new thing, youtube and facebook didn't exist and people actually cared about downloading images larger than a few KB. In a time when posters here on dakka posted dozens of racist attacks, I got a multi-day ban and a warning for responding to a post in orkspeak and for responding to a post with a picture with text on it instead of writing the same text. The racist posters are still around, by way, clearly ork speak and memes are a bigger issue than outright racism. Here on dakka, being a complete donkey-cave to others is perfectly fine to mods as long as you possess the language skills to thinly veil those attacks with flowery words. That is, assuming the rules are enforced at all. Some people have gotten away with shitposting idiotic interpretations of rules all over YMDC for years now, regularly breaking the rules which have been pinned to the top of the very forum - not only killing off any resemblance any community there, but also diminishing its use as a resource for rules questions. During 5th the whole internet pointed to YMDC for unclear rules, today new players are warned to not asking questions on dakka because you always get bad answers.
Speaking of outdated. This forum software does not work well, adheres to almost no moderns standards, is bugged and slow as feth. Most people can't properly handle quotes and spoilers without multiple edits, uploading pictures to different services is faster than uploading to dakka itself, search is worthless, no WYSIWYG editor, and the extra empty pages bug that Legoburner is unable to fix for whatever reason is rampant in almost every thread longer than 10 pages. And let's not get started with how dakka looks on phones. Eventually this forum WILL need to update to a new software. Drawing out the update will just increase the pain when that day comes. If you are no longer interested in maintaining this community, hand it over to someone who is. Or get people on board who help you. There are dozens of developers here on dakka who would gladly help out.
/rant over
TL;DR: I have no big interest in investing time into something that makes dakka a more attractive place for 40k players. In its current state I'd rather see it wither and die, hoping this ork community would then move somewhere else.
No worries man, I get you regarding some of the issues plaguing Dakka and it's definitely gotten more negative as a whole I would say than I remember it being when I first joined. I think it's also hard to justify a new thread with the same level of depth and overview of all the units in the first post because of how quickly the points updates and rules change now. Between chapter approved and now the balance dataslate, it's no longer a mostly one and done deal when you create it, it becomes something you have to painstakingly edit over the course of a year. Whereas before we were lucky to get an FAQ that concerned us in 6 months, now it feels like it's incredibly hard to keep up with all the changes if you don't use wahapedia or some other form of 3rd party to learn about updates.
It'll also change significantly because we'll be getting a codex in a year or so based on the codex timeline they've given us, so that gives even less incentive to create something so comprehensive when it's going to be upended in such a short amount of time anyways.
I'm sad the old DA WAAAGH! Forum is dead and buried as it was a bit of a grognard pit sometimes but you had some legitimately great content (fan created or otherwise) and users there that had a clear passion for Orks and understood how we ticked. If anyone is ever interested in a spiritual successor to that or the Ork thread here via discord or another forum do give me a holler, since I feel like half the time we have to bat away meta-chasers that hate Orks doing well competitively once we leave this thread.
The problem for me is, i dont know where else i should find my ork knowledge.
I have very limited amounts of posts other places than this ork forum thread (i have a few rules threads here and there thats about it), and this is where i go to spill my head open with ideas and get inspiration. And also ork interactions in case im confused about something.
If this forum isnt available i dont know where i should get that inspiration.
The only other place i can think of is the Ork group on facebook and half of those respond with: More dakka! or something equally idiotic that i didnt ask for, or just blatantly dont know what the F they are talking about. The facebook group is definitely not the place for competitive questions. This place is.
I only use the ork thread.. rarely check Dakka as it doesn’t have a lot of new info.. but I do like the sub forum and class specific discussion, but even that is intermittent. Most quarterly updates contain only minor changes for us anyway.. so I just look at warhammer competitive Reddit on new changes and competitive info. Some goonhammer.
Thats a real shame Jidmah, and it will be a bit hit for our little Waaagh we have here should you leave Dakka for good. But I also agree with a lot of what youve said, especially when it comes to the behaviour of certain individuals that lurk certain parts of this forum.
Hopefully we'll find a new home once Dakka fully falls apart to keep threads like this one going.
With regards to a new thread; I think the best way to approach it would be to keep things simple after the index comes out and we keep spitballing ideas in here, then once the new codex is out we can pick it apart here as a community and compile everything here for one of us to volunteer to put everything together in a new thread. Takes the strain off of the individual that way.
That's obviously quite a way away, so I'm sure someone here will take up the task when the time comes.
Tomsug wrote: 3. Jidmah - 9th became pretty boring right now. Even I lost the energy to posting there the 23453th variation on Goff list from CI. What about a new topic for 10th ed?
Traditionally, I only ever created a new one after the new edition dropped. Otherwise the first few pages people see for the rest of the edition are just speculation.
Considering how unlikely any huge surprises in tactics and list building are in the next month, I'd just use this thread for any 10th edition talk.
That said, I'm not sure I'm going to create a new thread, and if I do, it will absolutely be bare minimum. No rainbow tables, no links to lists.
For one, it's a huge amount of work to maintain those and it has to be redone after each balance update to be worth anything. I'm just not willing to spend the time to generate this amount of content.
Secondly, dakka outside of the ork community has become a toxic pool of negativity that actively reduces my enjoyment of the hobby. Reading and participating with online content has been a big part of the hobby for me, but in the last few years reading and contributing on dakka has ruined my mood on otherwise good days and made bad days worse. I forced myself to take a break and look for other communities. It was a real eye-opener to find that every single other community - even 4chan/tg/ - is less toxic that dakka N&R and 40k general.
My general mood has been improving as a result, and is improving more the less I engage with dakka. Literally the only reason I'm still checking this forum are you guys, I very much value the ork community here, and it's one of the best ones around.
Warning, rant:
Spoiler:
The issues I have with dakka are not people with strong opinions that I regularly disagree with like Semper or Daedalus.or Canadian 5th. Arguing and discussing is what forums are for, what I'm here for.
The people who turn this forum into a toxic maelstrom are divided into three groups: For one, all those tinfoils heads who never get tired to interpret every single thing GW does as some sort of evil conspiracy to con people out of their hard earned pocket money and are relentlessly posting this into every single thread after every single post. Everyone knows GW is doing this to get our money, but not everything they do is a ploy. Nothing they write ever adds any value to any discussion.
Then there is are people who just unreasonable hate everything, and are being donkey-caves to everyone who dares enjoy anything about the hobby. These people never get tired telling everyone how awesome the game was 20+ years ago, despite having no real experience with any modern editions. They regularly lie about how much they play, while obviously getting the most basic rules interactions wrong and whining about edge cases which allegedly ruin the game, but rarely ever matter in real life. They blame GW and everyone else for not being able to find games in their preferred edition, kind of like incels blame women for not being able to find a partner when the real issue is that they are just being donkey-caves.
Last are people who are just antagonistic at all costs. There are some people who will literally flip their opinion three times a week just to pick a fight with other people. They pop into every thread and take a stance opposite of the majority, just to then start insulting anyone defending their opinion and derailing the thread in the process.
Naturally, I have tried battling these people with the ignore function. Despite my list having grown fourfold in the last years compared to the people I put on ignore during the 10+ years before that, it doesn't work. Entire pages have turned invisible due to the high post rates of those toxic elements, and since many of them intentionally trigger others posters you can't really escape them as you are forced to scroll past quotes of their posts and discussions spawned by them.
Of course, these kind of things should (IMO) be policed by mods. Almost all of them have turned inactive, and the few that remain are unable and/or unwilling to properly moderate the 40k community. Instead they adhere to forum rules which have been written when mobile phones were a new thing, youtube and facebook didn't exist and people actually cared about downloading images larger than a few KB.
In a time when posters here on dakka posted dozens of racist attacks, I got a multi-day ban and a warning for responding to a post in orkspeak and for responding to a post with a picture with text on it instead of writing the same text. The racist posters are still around, by way, clearly ork speak and memes are a bigger issue than outright racism. Here on dakka, being a complete donkey-cave to others is perfectly fine to mods as long as you possess the language skills to thinly veil those attacks with flowery words.
That is, assuming the rules are enforced at all. Some people have gotten away with shitposting idiotic interpretations of rules all over YMDC for years now, regularly breaking the rules which have been pinned to the top of the very forum - not only killing off any resemblance any community there, but also diminishing its use as a resource for rules questions. During 5th the whole internet pointed to YMDC for unclear rules, today new players are warned to not asking questions on dakka because you always get bad answers.
Speaking of outdated. This forum software does not work well, adheres to almost no moderns standards, is bugged and slow as feth. Most people can't properly handle quotes and spoilers without multiple edits, uploading pictures to different services is faster than uploading to dakka itself, search is worthless, no WYSIWYG editor, and the extra empty pages bug that Legoburner is unable to fix for whatever reason is rampant in almost every thread longer than 10 pages. And let's not get started with how dakka looks on phones.
Eventually this forum WILL need to update to a new software. Drawing out the update will just increase the pain when that day comes.
If you are no longer interested in maintaining this community, hand it over to someone who is. Or get people on board who help you. There are dozens of developers here on dakka who would gladly help out.
/rant over
TL;DR: I have no big interest in investing time into something that makes dakka a more attractive place for 40k players. In its current state I'd rather see it wither and die, hoping this ork community would then move somewhere else.
That's a lot to take in, did not even know things with dakka were going that way..
I am in the same spot as Beardedragon, this is the best spot to read both theories and to speak about ork things. If it goes i have no idea where to go. It's unfortunate that in every hobby/game there are always the thickos that just can't go away. Honestly, i still enjoy 40k, and i will keep playing it, in the end i just want to have fun and bash things with my orks.
What ever happens, happens and i will keep trying to enjoy the game/hobby. Doomers be damned. Jidmah i don't know you much but to me you sound like a fine and balanced player trying to just enjoy your game. Try to not let those who take enjoyment from ruining your fun to win.All they need is for you to throw the towel.
I do agree the forum needs a system check, some updates and little code tweaks, i work in the area and even i can tell at first glance with out my professional eye.
Automatically Appended Next Post: On another not, Lone operative as shown is completely broken.
Look out sir with out 3 model requirement or closest model.
Hmm I like dakka. Way too much toxic positivity on places like reddit. Say anything even remotely critical even if it just musing over a rumor or new tidbit for the new edition and I see those folks donvoted into oblivion.
Personally I don't have a reddit account but I scroll it from time to time around new edition drops. Which place is better than dakka? I read bolter and chain sword it's not bad but I feel the mods are too heavy handed and have too many rules especially regarding leaked info.
Personally I really like that dakka allows real discussions unfortunately I think a lot of people take someone disagreeing with them as some sort of slight or attack.
I have enjoyed your ork threads Jidmah and I like your take on orks in general. Would be a shame to see you go but if you do I wish you well.
Grimskul wrote:I'm sad the old DA WAAAGH! Forum is dead and buried as it was a bit of a grognard pit sometimes but you had some legitimately great content (fan created or otherwise) and users there that had a clear passion for Orks and understood how we ticked. If anyone is ever interested in a spiritual successor to that or the Ork thread here via discord or another forum do give me a holler, since I feel like half the time we have to bat away meta-chasers that hate Orks doing well competitively once we leave this thread.
Heh, ironically I joined dakka and tried to get a community of "competitive"(which meant a very different thing back then) ork players running here because I was annoyed of the horrible advice I got on Da Waaagh! and its "casual at any cost, avoid playing to win"-mentality when I still tried to make sense of orks and 40k
Response to Boosykes (more rant):
Spoiler:
Boosykes wrote: Hmm I like dakka. Way too much toxic positivity on places like reddit. Say anything even remotely critical even if it just musing over a rumor or new tidbit for the new edition and I see those folks donvoted into oblivion.
As someone who has started to post on reddit regularly because of the reasons outlined earlier, I can assure you that this absolutely is an urban myth - usually spread by the very same problematic elements which make dakka the shithole it is. The most common reason to get multiple downvotes are either when you are objectively being wrong or being a dick, so I guess one could take educated guesses why so many dakka regulars hate reddit.
I don't think I have single comment with less than 0 karma despite me posting the very same type of comments I would have posted on dakka. Constructive criticism is well received on almost all larger 40k subs. Whining, conspiracy theories and illogical arguments are not.
There also is no such thing as toxic positivity, period.
Personally I don't have a reddit account but I scroll it from time to time around new edition drops. Which place is better than dakka? I read bolter and chain sword it's not bad but I feel the mods are too heavy handed and have too many rules especially regarding leaked info.
Dakka has become pretty terrible for news. For some releases dakka lagged behind for days, some releases even got missed completely. If it weren't for Tsagualsa putting insane effort into maintaining the 10th edition news thread, I wouldn't bother with reading dakka for news at all.
Personally I really like that dakka allows real discussions unfortunately I think a lot of people take someone disagreeing with them as some sort of slight or attack.
It really doesn't. With no discussion culture being enforced, people who outright reject any opinion but their own while also posting up to three times per minute have taken over almost all discussions on dakka. Despite being a vocal minority (the worst offenders are just ~10 people), they dominate every thread in every sub-forum they are active in.
Beardedragon wrote:The problem for me is, i dont know where else i should find my ork knowledge.
I have very limited amounts of posts other places than this ork forum thread (i have a few rules threads here and there thats about it), and this is where i go to spill my head open with ideas and get inspiration. And also ork interactions in case im confused about something.
If this forum isnt available i dont know where i should get that inspiration.
The only other place i can think of is the Ork group on facebook and half of those respond with: More dakka! or something equally idiotic that i didnt ask for, or just blatantly dont know what the F they are talking about. The facebook group is definitely not the place for competitive questions. This place is.
Where does one lonely ork go if this group dies
gungo wrote:I only use the ork thread.. rarely check Dakka as it doesn’t have a lot of new info.. but I do like the sub forum and class specific discussion, but even that is intermittent. Most quarterly updates contain only minor changes for us anyway.. so I just look at warhammer competitive Reddit on new changes and competitive info. Some goonhammer.
Afrodactyl wrote:Thats a real shame Jidmah, and it will be a bit hit for our little Waaagh we have here should you leave Dakka for good. But I also agree with a lot of what youve said, especially when it comes to the behaviour of certain individuals that lurk certain parts of this forum.
Hopefully we'll find a new home once Dakka fully falls apart to keep threads like this one going.
Forceride wrote:That's a lot to take in, did not even know things with dakka were going that way..
I am in the same spot as Beardedragon, this is the best spot to read both theories and to speak about ork things. If it goes i have no idea where to go. It's unfortunate that in every hobby/game there are always the thickos that just can't go away. Honestly, i still enjoy 40k, and i will keep playing it, in the end i just want to have fun and bash things with my orks.
What ever happens, happens and i will keep trying to enjoy the game/hobby. Doomers be damned. Jidmah i don't know you much but to me you sound like a fine and balanced player trying to just enjoy your game. Try to not let those who take enjoyment from ruining your fun to win.All they need is for you to throw the towel.
Boosykes wrote:I have enjoyed your ork threads Jidmah and I like your take on orks in general. Would be a shame to see you go but if you do I wish you well.
Thanks for the kind words everyone I'm glad to read that you see as much value in this community of orks as I do. I think for now I can promise to raise the Waaagh! banner at least once more for the 10th edition index, until then lets focus on orks, and not on my problems with people on the internet. You know what happens to your head when to listen too long to the ramblings of a weird boy.
On another not, Lone operative as shown is completely broken.
Look out sir with out 3 model requirement or closest model.
Where's the Lone Operative news come from? I haven't seen a WarCom article on it, and I've given up on the cesspit that is the 10th news discussion thread on general.
If you could post a screenshot or link it would be really appreciated.
Not all characters possess the Leader ability, however. Independent sorts may instead have the Lone Operative ability, which means that they can’t be targeted by ranged attacks unless the attacker is within 12″. This potent defensive trait is common among the stealthier specialists of the 41st Millennium, such as Vindicare Assassins or Commander Shadowsun.
Some army leaders can gain it from being close to infantry:
Spoiler:
I think it has the potential to be broken if it is put on the wrong units, but unlike with LoS! you can just try to get into 12" and blast someone like Gulliman with a scrap jet or wazzbom, no matter how many units surround him. Most characters can also no longer hide behind a single dread or transport.
I also very much look forward to Thrakka being untargetable as long as there is 12" worth of orks around him in every direction. I hope these changes will result in our character at least lasting into the late game instead of dying first.
I would imagine Ghaz will get the same rule as Guilliman, as his current defensive profile is vastly different to pretty much everything in the book that's not a vehicle.
Warbosses will probably just get the "same armour type" leader rule. So Megaboss with MANz, etc.
With the rumours that some FW stuff might be moving to plastic, so I'm quietly hopeful for a rebirth of the brick of proper biker Nobs led by a bikerboss.
Well, honestly I don' t read anything outside the ork forums there on dakka
Bare minimum founded after 10th drop to clear it from the rumours will be great. I think it is a fine communitiy there, one more wow would be nice . The meta change much faster than used to be imho so keep your table up to date should be a huge amount of work.
I would imagine Ghaz will get the same rule as Guilliman, as his current defensive profile is vastly different to pretty much everything in the book that's not a vehicle.
Warbosses will probably just get the "same armour type" leader rule. So Megaboss with MANz, etc.
It needs to work with the combat patrol though, so most likely it can lead any infantry plus MANz while the regular warboss is just regular infantry and beastbosses are limited to leading squigs/beastsnaggas.
Maybe they might get the within 3" treatment but with vehicles.
So for the faction focus, what do we think we're going to get?
Looking at a few of them so far, there's:
Army rules
Unit spotlight infantry (seems to be the +1 version of basic infantry where possible, like Intercessors, Cadian shock troops, etc)
Unit spotlight vehicle
Unit spotlight special character (but not always, the AM one didn't spotlight Lord Solar)
Weapon spotlight (a few of these)
Stratagem spotlight
I reckon we'll get;
Beast Snagga Boys
Stompa
Possibly Ghaz as he's a Bobby G/Abaddon equivalent
Shokk Attack Gun
Rokkit Launcha
Careen or a Green Tide strat
Jidmah wrote: Is it just me, or does it seem like close combat has been cranked to eleven on every single dedicated close combat model we have seen so far?
Is this to compensate for it being harder to get into a position where you actually will be allowed to fight?
Points cost is of course going to be a factor, but lets take the base slanessh greater demon cause it's not a named character. Assuming it's always equipped with a witstealer sword and one of the other options that's 10 attacks with ap2 and damage 3. Termies being the ideal targets roughly 9 hits, maybe 8 or 7 wounds depending on the wounding chart, AP 2 does get you to that 4++ so maybe 4 termies would drop. Seems about right for a 300-400pt model.
And that could be a lot worse if you take enough wounds off the demon or if the wound chart has some differences. (which I'd bet money on)
I reckon a few puzzle pieces are still missing here.
Jidmah wrote: Is it just me, or does it seem like close combat has been cranked to eleven on every single dedicated close combat model we have seen so far?
Is this to compensate for it being harder to get into a position where you actually will be allowed to fight?
It seems to me they limit the number and effectivity of the strategems, psychic powers, extra rules etc + they limited the options how to get in CC. To make it more “you play what you have on datasheet and don' t mess around” etc.
So yes, pumping up the CC could be a logical next step to keep CC effective vs. shooting.
Afrodactyl wrote: Looking at the daemons FF, we now know you select one and only one weapon to fight melee with unless it has the "Extra Attacks" keyword.
I would imagine we're going to get this rule for choppas.
I would not believe that since it also mentions you cannot use other rules to alter it's number of attacks profile, it's more similar to squig boys or beast boss bite in that you only make x amount attacks. What i can see is the choppa extra attacks being rolled into the weapon attacks.. honestly it would make things also simpler
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, this is me guessing, but i am currently seeing a trend with most horde armies where we either recover units or models destroyed. I suspect this is the new design for horde where casualties do not matter. I fear battle shock will be far more important for horde armies then casualties. Necrons, nids and daemons all have rules supporting this, still, it's just a suspicion.
Jidmah wrote: The sisters squad revealed today has both close combat weapon(1 attack) and chainsword (3 attacks). Choppa boyz might come with 4 attacks base now.
They have cast off all shackles of previous rules iterations though, so it really could be anything.
I think the 3 attacks on the chainsword is because it can usually only be taken by the Sister Superior, who in the past had 2 attacks base and the chainsword gave an extra attack, so it adds up to the 3 you see on the new datasheet. So chances are that boyz will have 3 attacks base with choppas still.
Went in with another Stompa list against yet another World Eaters list.
Was a pretty good win, we stopped at turn like 4 because my opponent got slapped and i dont know how many points he would have gotten, probably around 60. I got 92 though by math'ing it out.
I had: Warboss with kill choppa, attack squig and BBK. Wanted to get da killa klaw but i simply couldnt find 10 points anywhere.
3x10 grots (1 of em with obsec) 2x10 Beast snagga boys
5 kommandos (nob with choppa to save points) Nob with Waagh banner + Big gob
3x1 lone deff dreads 2 Kill rigs, both with frazzle, one with squiggly curse other with Roar of Mork 5 Killa Kanz with big shootas
Kustom Stompa
Originally i wanted to deepstrike in the Killa Kanz but against world eaters it didnt really matter. He had turn one, didnt do much. I moved up a tiny bit but didnt call waagh. I had deployed 2 deff dreads on the flanks to secure against reserves, and they did do that well. Angron came in and attacked a kill rig, and i made a whopping 5 out of 7 6++ invul saves, so in the end, i only lost 10 wounds. While that was important, i would have probably won even if that didnt happen.
Anyway from that point of i just slapped him hard. The Stompa didnt really shoot a lot given we had a lot of terrain but it was a big deterrence against his army as he knows i can wreck anything he has, even angron, with the stompa.
Fun list, ill probably run it at a local tournament coming up soon.
Its either Stompa, 28 stormboys and 30 kommandos (with 3 deff dreads and 5 kanz) as either deathskulls or goffs, or this version with 2 rigs. Is it better to flood the screen with smaller models or just go skew list with high toughness models with ramshackle? Not sure. Havent tried the other version so far. But the rig version worked out well.
Fun thing happened we couldnt answer: If you Roar of Mork Angron and he dies and comes back the next turn, does he retain the -2 advance and -2 charge? We played it as he does, but none of us really knew.
honestly the only melee so far to me that looked bonkers was Gman (because we had no idea it was 1 weapon only yet, now he seems fine) and Screamer Killer, but only because im thinking Carnifex prices as of right now not what they will probably be.
Jidmah wrote: The sisters squad revealed today has both close combat weapon(1 attack) and chainsword (3 attacks). Choppa boyz might come with 4 attacks base now.
They have cast off all shackles of previous rules iterations though, so it really could be anything.
I think the 3 attacks on the chainsword is because it can usually only be taken by the Sister Superior, who in the past had 2 attacks base and the chainsword gave an extra attack, so it adds up to the 3 you see on the new datasheet. So chances are that boyz will have 3 attacks base with choppas still.
Ah, I'm not familiar with Sisters at all, as the only sisters player in my area always play one of his other armies against me. Bummer
I'm beginning to wonder why we haven't heard anything about the fight phase details yet.
Jidmah wrote: The sisters squad revealed today has both close combat weapon(1 attack) and chainsword (3 attacks). Choppa boyz might come with 4 attacks base now.
They have cast off all shackles of previous rules iterations though, so it really could be anything.
I think the 3 attacks on the chainsword is because it can usually only be taken by the Sister Superior, who in the past had 2 attacks base and the chainsword gave an extra attack, so it adds up to the 3 you see on the new datasheet. So chances are that boyz will have 3 attacks base with choppas still.
Ah, I'm not familiar with Sisters at all, as the only sisters player in my area always play one of his other armies against me. Bummer
I'm beginning to wonder why we haven't heard anything about the fight phase details yet.
Because they need material to fill the remaining weeks of previews with???
I would imagine Ghaz will get the same rule as Guilliman, as his current defensive profile is vastly different to pretty much everything in the book that's not a vehicle.
Warbosses will probably just get the "same armour type" leader rule. So Megaboss with MANz, etc.
It needs to work with the combat patrol though, so most likely it can lead any infantry plus MANz while the regular warboss is just regular infantry and beastbosses are limited to leading squigs/beastsnaggas.
I'm curious what they will do with the wartrike.
Combat patrol datasheets are different to reqular though so could get rule in combat patrol to join boyz but not in reqular.
Agree that rules in general are updated without the old in mind. It all feels very fresh. E.g. Votann seems promising who came in a weirdly expensive and elite from an army that orginally was IG with better guns. Now their line troops went back to WS/BS4+ instead of 3+ (and got T5...) which hopefully drops their points.
I really like the Mek rule for Orks. Want more shooty Boyz? Bring Meks. Not, bring Ghaz (or whoever). In any case it´s all fresh compared to the stale fiddling with red tape stuff like a gazillion strats and layers upon layers of subfaction rules etc. Optimistic so far.
Jidmah wrote: When I wrote that the TDA captain wasn't revealed yet
We have known different rules are for cp games longer than that though with different sheets. We just got 1st example of what we knew long time ago.
Another option lone operative near boyz
Yes, and pretty much every one expected that those rules would be slightly tweaked. There was not a single person expecting a completely different datasheet which has no resemblance of the regular one.
It seems the vast majority of battleline units have some type of buff based around proximity to objectives. Curious to see what Boyz or Grots might get being on an objective. Maybe a charge bonus against enemy units on an objective or more attacks? Maybe even a higher pile in move?
Grimskul wrote: It seems the vast majority of battleline units have some type of buff based around proximity to objectives. Curious to see what Boyz or Grots might get being on an objective.
I don't think Grots are guaranteed to be battleline. Boyz and BeastieBoyz definitely.
Grimskul wrote: It seems the vast majority of battleline units have some type of buff based around proximity to objectives. Curious to see what Boyz or Grots might get being on an objective.
I don't think Grots are guaranteed to be battleline. Boyz and BeastieBoyz definitely.
Boyz are Battleline, so you can take up to 6 units.
Beastsnagga Boyz are Battleline, so you can take up to 6 units.
Gretchin are not Battleline, so you can take up to 3 units.
Spoiler:
For Tyranids:
Tyranid Warriors are Battleline, so you can take up to 6 units.
Gargoyles, Hormagaunts, Termagaunts, Barbgaunts (should be called Barbagaunts), Neurogaunts (Neuragaunts) are not Battleline, so you can take up to 3 units each, but obviously you can still take 15 units of them in total.
For Death Guard:
Plague Marines are Battleline, so you can take up to 6 units.
Poxwalkers, Cultists are not Battleline, so you can take up to 3 units each, but you can still take 6 units of them in total.
I also think you might see lower OC (1 or 0) on Gretchin too, but do note Termagaunts had OC 2. I doubt (a kind of thinking) they will get a special rule to when on objectives as neither do Termagaunts.
I also think this might be the same across many factions and am not always expecting special objective rules and OC2 on units like Kroot, Cultists, Poxwalkers, Tzaangors, Nurglings and Brimstone Horrors to lesser or greater degrees. The Mere Mortals style rules in a lot of those factions is where I get this feeling and thought process from. It seems like GW wanted in 9th and maybe remembered in 10th to have the main poster child unit of each faction to be more popular than the side kick unit.
However, given the limited information we have, I am fully prepared to be wrong.
I am also prepared to be wrong on the basis that Grots aren't in the same boat as Termagaunts, Poxwalkers and Cultists in GW's minds.
EightFoldPath wrote: The use of the word "think" is supposed to indicate an opinion.
The rest of this post is also opinion.
The important part is to differentiate between educated guesses, which is making a prognosis based on existing data, and baseless speculation.
On dakka, and twice more so for tenth, a lot of people are just making up worst case scenarios out of thin air and then get angry about it. I absolutely hate that kind of behavior, and do not want to see any of it in this thread.
That said, you actually did make an educated guess, so I'm sorry for incorrectly calling you out.
We already know that something is wrong with the datasheet in that article though. During the stream two more datasheets were shown, one with the ripper swarms rolled in and the other with a different ability.
So either it's the combat patrol datasheet (which does not care for battleline) or GW edited it for marketing purposes or there are actually multiple termagant datasheets with different options.
So I THINK we might see something like:
Boyz are Battleline, so you can take up to 6 units. Beastsnagga Boyz are Battleline, so you can take up to 6 units. Gretchin are not Battleline, so you can take up to 3 units.
If I follow your rationale, why would they limit gretchin but not the two types of boyz? Wouldn't it make more sense to limit boyz if their goal is to force diversification?
For Death Guard: Plague Marines are Battleline, so you can take up to 6 units. Poxwalkers, Cultists are not Battleline, so you can take up to 3 units each, but you can still take 6 units of them in total.
Speculation, but likely. However, poxwalkers and cultists are already limited, gretchin are not.
I also think you might see lower OC (1 or 0) on Gretchin too, but do note Termagaunts had OC 2. I doubt (a kind of thinking) they will get a special rule to when on objectives as neither do Termagaunts.
The termagant datasheet from the stream has "Lurking behavior" which is benefits of cover while on an objective. OC1 for gretchin is likely, but it wouldn't really make them worse. After all, their OC to point ratio would still we really good.
I also think this might be the same across many factions and am not always expecting special objective rules and OC2 on units like Kroot, Cultists, Poxwalkers, Tzaangors, Nurglings and Brimstone Horrors to lesser or greater degrees. The Mere Mortals style rules in a lot of those factions is where I get this feeling and thought process from. It seems like GW wanted in 9th and maybe remembered in 10th to have the main poster child unit of each faction to be more popular than the side kick unit.
It think you are drawing that "minor troops option" bracket a bit too large. There also isn't really a need to limit gretchin game or fluffwise. Gretchin outnumbering boyz is not uncommon for snakebite, deff skullz or grot rebel forces, and relying too heavily on weedy models with next to no offensive capabilities has never paid unless they either filled mandatory slots (gone) or generated tons of CP (also gone).
However, given the limited information we have, I am fully prepared to be wrong.
I would agree with you that the doomposters on dakka are very tiring and I did like and agree with a lot of your post here about why you aren't going to do the new thread. I should have probably put more effort into the original post to make it clearer I was just suggesting the possibility.
I suspect the other Termagaunt datasheet is the combat patrol sheet because it is missing two of the gun options (which we just recently learned they do in combat patrol sheets) and is missing the Endless Multitudes keyword which is for at least one strat (CP games are stated in the article to get their own custom strategems so won't need as many special keywords). The leadership of 9+/10+ on that sheet also looks off compared to Genestealers (7+) and Neurogaunts (8+).
I do think GW are happy with 6 x 10~30 (maybe dropping to 20) Boyz and 6 x 10~20 Beast Snagga Boyz but not happy with 6 x 10~20 Poxwalkers (unless in a special detachment that comes in the codex). Although given you get 30 in the Combat Patrol box, it makes you think they want 120 Poxwalkers on every table!
Grots I'm not sure on and they could be different to these other lesser units in other factions, because I do agree there is an Orks AND Goblins nature to greenskins.
But I wouldn't be going out right now and buying 180 Grots on the assumption I could run 6 x 30. Whereas I would be more comfortable buying 120 Beast Snagga Boyz in the belief I could run 6 x 20. Although I would probably limit it to 60 for now (3 x 20 or 6 x 10) and then wait and see.
My general advice for buying, building and painting at the moment in terms of preparing for 10th is assume any unit could get a new smaller maximum unit size in 10th, assume most units won't be battleline and put forgeworld units to the back of the queue (unless you just want them as models rather than game pieces).
Well, I'm currently building 4x10 beastsnagga boyz (with one extra box so I can replace nobz for 2x20) in hopes of them being able to charge out of battlewagons
Outside of that it's probably best to buy stuff you don't have yet. GW clearly tries to give every unit a different ability, so having more options increases your tactical flexibility.
Agree on the FW part. The studio has been rebranded to be Horus Heresy now, and they are moving towards replacing resin with plastic at full speed. While orks at least have a theoretical chance of appearing in the 30k era, I wouldn't bank on any ork FW models being left by the time 11th comes around.
I think realistically i'm about tapped out on what I can buy for my Ork horde. I could in theory buy some of the other buggies but i'm not sure i even want to own them. The squigbuggies are a hard no for me, I didn't buy them when they were the best unit in our army and i'm not going to buy them now when they are mediocre at best, they are just too damn ugly in my opinion
Maybe I should buy a box of the new boys just to add some flavor to my existing horde...otherwise yeah...maybe a gorkanaut.
Should be interesting to see how the new editions shakes up the ork army playstyles. I'll be honest, i'm a bit tired of the Goff alpha strike list i've been running in tournaments.
tneva82 wrote: They have said though fw models gets rules soon after launch
They did, though they already clarified that "soon" might take a few months.
I still heavily encourage everyone to not invest into any ork 40kFW models for gaming reasons. And that's from someone whose Garantuan Squiggoth got its first match this month.
tneva82 wrote: They have said though fw models gets rules soon after launch
They did, though they already clarified that "soon" might take a few months.
I still heavily encourage everyone to not invest into any ork 40kFW models for gaming reasons. And that's from someone whose Garantuan Squiggoth got its first match this month.
Yeah, especially as someone who plays more on the AoS side of things atm, the Monstrous Arcanum FW models that were more commonly used like the Rogue Idol and the Mournghul just got dumped on since their rules got Legended recently, so the shelf-life of any FW models that aren't marines is basically nil.
It's too bad, I really liked the IA series that FW did, (Raid on Kastorel Novem, the Badab War and Siege of Vraks were nice takes that weren't the usual Imperial fan wankery that we usually get) but I guess I'll take better mainstream treatment for Orks in the current game.
Their goes warboss on warbike then.. man and i liked the kill tank and mekadreads...
Also about that melee being lethal, while i agree, GW is also nerfing movement.
Things like, genestealers had infiltrator and got nerfed to pre move. That's a rather big nerf if all infiltrators go down a notch, paired with battleshock if you pop a transport i am not sure i would be worried.. rather i am worried we won't be effective and shooting takes prevalence since movement becomes harder.
Then there is the other side of the equation, being an horde army we might receive rules like the IG where we want large bricks of bodies to keep battlefield control.
I can't spot the instance where i saw it, so i believe i might be mistaken. If i find it i will link it.
I will amend my post but my point stands that getting into melee might be harder even with transports, and that's my opinion on the rules shown so far.
The only thing I would buy is Mek and BW as they are a future combo. I´m hoping for a possible combined arms force of mounted Lootas/Tankbustas/Flash Gitz for actual ranged firepower plus the old melee component.
Imo the long period of melee focus has been quite dull. I´d rather be back into the mixed lists of yore. Please let he Age of Goff be over.
Scactha wrote: The only thing I would buy is Mek and BW as they are a future combo. I´m hoping for a possible combined arms force of mounted Lootas/Tankbustas/Flash Gitz for actual ranged firepower plus the old melee component.
Imo the long period of melee focus has been quite dull. I´d rather be back into the mixed lists of yore. Please let he Age of Goff be over.
It'll largely depend on if our racial BS stays at 5+ and if things like shootas for boyz and weapons for tankbustas/lootas actually become more mobile or do consistent enough damage for us again. With cover mainly giving +1 saves rather than having rules like dense terrain providing -1 to hit, it might work okay for us as long as they don't go full ham in providing too many -1 to hit mods in the army specific rules outside a few units or strats.
Scactha wrote: The only thing I would buy is Mek and BW as they are a future combo. I´m hoping for a possible combined arms force of mounted Lootas/Tankbustas/Flash Gitz for actual ranged firepower plus the old melee component.
Imo the long period of melee focus has been quite dull. I´d rather be back into the mixed lists of yore. Please let he Age of Goff be over.
No one should buy a mek unless you really love the model. Just dive into your bits box and kitbash one
No one should buy a mek unless you really love the model. Just dive into your bits box and kitbash one
A box of lootas/burnas + an extra boy easily can provide the bitz needed for a mek. So if you are starting out and want to go shooty this is a good way to go.
Scactha wrote: The only thing I would buy is Mek and BW as they are a future combo. I´m hoping for a possible combined arms force of mounted Lootas/Tankbustas/Flash Gitz for actual ranged firepower plus the old melee component.
Imo the long period of melee focus has been quite dull. I´d rather be back into the mixed lists of yore. Please let he Age of Goff be over.
No one should buy a mek unless you really love the model. Just dive into your bits box and kitbash one
Fair point That was unorky of me!
And I agree that we´ll stay at BS 5+. But the ability to boost this by Mek(s) is a good design choice imo. Since saves seem to be going down overall, Shoota Boyz might even see the board...at least from a BW platform to act as ablative armour for the Gitz/Lootas/Bustas...
Personally, I'm hoping for and improvemend BS for our dedicated shooting units, so they don't have to crank up the number of dice even more to make our models worth shooting.
Shootas will already be better even if they remain unchanged (2 shots, rapid fire 1). Marines no longer getting 2+ in cover and everyone's basic guns losing AP makes them look a lot better in comparison than before.
Or maybe deffgunz could stay BS 5+ but regain the heavy keyword. This would mean BS4+ when not moving, just like flash gits.
Hmm, that is an interesting point. Will the limits to modifiers stay? As orks we tend to benefit from the stat boost more but have less access to get those boosts.
cody.d. wrote: Hmm, that is an interesting point. Will the limits to modifiers stay? As orks we tend to benefit from the stat boost more but have less access to get those boosts.
To me it looks like modifiers will be able to stack again, but - 1 to hit gets turned into the stealth USR which you can only have once.
cody.d. wrote: Hmm, that is an interesting point. Will the limits to modifiers stay? As orks we tend to benefit from the stat boost more but have less access to get those boosts.
To me it looks like modifiers will be able to stack again, but - 1 to hit gets turned into the stealth USR which you can only have once.
I might be wrong though.
Nah the -1+1 still there based on leaked rulebook pictures.
Not sure where idea it dropped came when idea of bs drop plus bonus staying still for heavy weapons is thing that specifically matters if modifiers are capped. It's way that you don't ignore -1 beside moving.
9e. Marine with lascannon moves and shoots at guy with -1 to hit. 4+ to hit.
10e. Marine with lascannon moves and shoots at guy with -1 to hit. 5+ to hit.
Haven't had time to dig in yet due to work, but feel free to draw conclusions.
Just had a skim through, here's the things that immediately jump out to me that seem important for us. I might be misreading some things as I've not fully woken up yet so I apologise for any mistakes.
1. Models can charge over terrain features that are 2" or less in height for free, anything taller requires you to expend the movement to get over it.
2. Pile in after charging. Anything not in base to base can pile in up to 3". Every model piling in must end up closer to the nearest enemy model, and must end up in engagement range if possible.
3. A model can fight if it is in b2b contact with an enemy model, or if it is in b2b contact with a friendly model that is also in b2b contact with an enemy model.
4. Post-fight consolidation. Anything not in b2b contact with an enemy model can make a 3" move toward an enemy model, and must end up in engagement range. If there's no enemy models then you can move 3" toward an objective if you would end up in range of the objective.
5. Infiltrators. Set up outside of 9" horizontally from enemy deployment zone and enemy models.
6. Scouts X. Pre game move of X". Includes dedicated transports that only have models with Scouts embarked. Must end the move more than 9" horizontally from enemy models.
7. Leaders and Bodyguards. Attacks target the Toughness of the bodyguard models, and wounds cannot be inflicted on attached characters unless the bodyguards are destroyed or you have a rule that lets you target the character.
8. Epic challenge strat. Gives a character the precision rule, letting you attack characters in units directly.
9. Grenade strat. Target a unit within 8", roll 6d6, deal a MW for each 4+.
10. Tank shock strat. After charging with a vehicle, pick one of its weapons. Roll a d6 for each point of strength the weapon has, adding 2 additional d6 if your weapon strength is greater than the units Toughness. For each 5+, deal a MW to a max of 6MW.
11. Go to ground strat. Gain a 6+ invuln and benefit of cover when targeted.
12. Big guns never tire. Vehicles and monsters can shoot in combat, taking a -1 to hit unless the weapon is a pistol. You can also shoot at a vehicle or monster that is in combat with your dudes, but at a -1 unless it's a pistol.
13. Hit and wound rolls can never be at more than a -1 or +1, so no stacking debuffs.
14. No clarification on what engagement range is as yet.
Btw, hazardous is a roll for each weapon used completely apart from hit roles, so i doubt it you will be able to reroll it besides CP. It auto destroys anything but character/vehicle/monster
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also that 7' example charge, looks like a 6' charge in 9th, i am not sure it is 1', the rules also point your forced to make base contact after ending charge.. But with out some clarity we are just guessing.
Automatically Appended Next Post: also:
- Stealth is -1 to hit at range as expected
The 12th Annual Storm Of Silence Warhammer 40k Grand Tournament - Scott de Wynter-Wilkie
Freebootas with Stompa:
Spoiler:
++ Arks of Omen Detachment (Orks) [115 PL, 4CP, 1,995pts] ++
+ Configuration +
Arks of Omen Compulsory Type: Fast Attack
Battle Size [6CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Clan Kultur: Freebooterz
Detachment Command Cost
Game Type: 5. Chapter Approved: Arks of Omen
+ HQ +
Big Mek w/ Kustom Force Field [5 PL, 85pts]
Warboss on Warbike [6 PL, -2CP, 115pts]: 4. Brutal but Kunnin, Da Killa Klaw, Power Klaw, Stratagem: Relic, Stratagem: Warlord Trait, Warlord
+ Troops +
Gretchin [2 PL, 40pts]
. 10x Gretchin: 10x Grot Blaster
Gretchin [2 PL, 40pts]
. 10x Gretchin: 10x Grot Blaster
Gretchin [2 PL, 40pts]
. 10x Gretchin: 10x Grot Blaster
+ Elites +
Meganobz [12 PL, 120pts]: Trukk Boyz
. Boss Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
. Meganob: Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw
They'll be legends as well, so the new wartrike rules had better to change to compensate or GW has to actually release a plastic WB on Warbike in the long term if they want an Ork HQ that can actually lead warbikes.
They'll be legends as well, so the new wartrike rules had better to change to compensate or GW has to actually release a plastic WB on Warbike in the long term if they want an Ork HQ that can actually lead warbikes.
I'm naively holding out hope for Wazdakka to be in the codex (not index) and that we'll get a multi-part Wazdakka/bikerboss kit.
I love my bikerboss and really want him to be usable going forward.
:EDIT:
Just looked at the Knights preview.... they look pretty darn beefy.
The harpoon being anti monster 4+ and anti vehicle 4+ implies that there could be units of those types with T25 or greater.... fingers crossed for the Stompa
Jidmah wrote: Supa Kannon already sold out... damn, I was pondering to buy one just a few weeks ago.
Bikerboss has been a staple of many lists for a long time and many editions.. I hope they add him back soon.
The supa kannon I only ever wanted to use for the relic gunwagon because I enjoy the visual difference. Not even sure it’s still in the codex and it’s fine..
My warboss on bike I guess I can proxy as a nob on bike w PK but it’s a bit big and buzzgrob is just going to be a big Mek but oddly the mega/meka dread is still tournament legal I figured that would go first..
Jidmah wrote: Supa Kannon already sold out... damn, I was pondering to buy one just a few weeks ago.
Bikerboss has been a staple of many lists for a long time and many editions.. I hope they add him back soon.
The supa kannon I only ever wanted to use for the relic gunwagon because I enjoy the visual difference. Not even sure it’s still in the codex and it’s fine..
My warboss on bike I guess I can proxy as a nob on bike w PK but it’s a bit big and buzzgrob is just going to be a big Mek but oddly the mega/meka dread is still tournament legal I figured that would go first..
Warboss on Warbike will hopefully get legends rules, but we all know how well that worked last time. If you got the Zardsnark model, it should be perfectly fine as a wartrike anyways.
The kannon I just wanted it for the visual, I would have been fine with playing it as just a gunwagon. Too late, I guess.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Afrodactyl wrote: The harpoon being anti monster 4+ and anti vehicle 4+ implies that there could be units of those types with T25 or greater.... fingers crossed for the Stompa
Nah, it's just to trigger devastating wounds on a 4+ against them.
We already know that the stompa's toughness will be 14 from the tanks preview.
Jidmah wrote: Supa Kannon already sold out... damn, I was pondering to buy one just a few weeks ago.
Bikerboss has been a staple of many lists for a long time and many editions.. I hope they add him back soon.
The supa kannon I only ever wanted to use for the relic gunwagon because I enjoy the visual difference. Not even sure it’s still in the codex and it’s fine..
My warboss on bike I guess I can proxy as a nob on bike w PK but it’s a bit big and buzzgrob is just going to be a big Mek but oddly the mega/meka dread is still tournament legal I figured that would go first..
Warboss on Warbike will hopefully get legends rules, but we all know how well that worked last time. If you got the Zardsnark model, it should be perfectly fine as a wartrike anyways.
The kannon I just wanted it for the visual, I would have been fine with playing it as just a gunwagon. Too late, I guess.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Afrodactyl wrote: The harpoon being anti monster 4+ and anti vehicle 4+ implies that there could be units of those types with T25 or greater.... fingers crossed for the Stompa
Nah, it's just to trigger devastating wounds on a 4+ against them.
We already know that the stompa's toughness will be 14 from the tanks preview.
But why would I need to proxy wartrike when I own the wartrike… I mean who knows what’s the deal a mob warbikers/ warbikers they don’t even come w a pk in the kit. That option might go away. Hopefully not. The warboss on bike is a cool model I’ll find a place for it.
Jidmah wrote: Supa Kannon already sold out... damn, I was pondering to buy one just a few weeks ago.
Bikerboss has been a staple of many lists for a long time and many editions.. I hope they add him back soon.
The supa kannon I only ever wanted to use for the relic gunwagon because I enjoy the visual difference. Not even sure it’s still in the codex and it’s fine..
My warboss on bike I guess I can proxy as a nob on bike w PK but it’s a bit big and buzzgrob is just going to be a big Mek but oddly the mega/meka dread is still tournament legal I figured that would go first..
Warboss on Warbike will hopefully get legends rules, but we all know how well that worked last time. If you got the Zardsnark model, it should be perfectly fine as a wartrike anyways.
The kannon I just wanted it for the visual, I would have been fine with playing it as just a gunwagon. Too late, I guess.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Afrodactyl wrote: The harpoon being anti monster 4+ and anti vehicle 4+ implies that there could be units of those types with T25 or greater.... fingers crossed for the Stompa
Nah, it's just to trigger devastating wounds on a 4+ against them.
We already know that the stompa's toughness will be 14 from the tanks preview.
I'm hoping our killkannon is actually more meaningful as a blast weapon this edition, it's always felt incredibly anemic as an infantry weapon and bounces off enemy tanks, so ideally it just has more shots baseline and is closer to the battlecannon profile we've seen on Russes and the Knights. Would be nice to take battlewagons that aren't just barebones with a deffrolla and ard top.
It is like Jidmah said - all small FW model will be gone. FW will produce just huge models like Titans. It is explicitly said on the end of the article.
So I hope you followed my tip to buy it before people get crazy they are gone
I hope the warboss on warbike ends up as plastic then, because the idea of having a warboss, thats just way faster than the rest of the warbosses on foot, is great.
Hes a great unit over all.
And i just modelled a necron laser on my regular stompa, to use as a "Gaze of Mork" rather than making the laser eye..
What if they just buffed the dethkilla wartrike? Like gave it a real power klaw? As that's seems possible with what they have been doing to wepon profiles in tenth. Then would it be a fine replacement?
Boosykes wrote: What if they just buffed the dethkilla wartrike? Like gave it a real power klaw? As that's seems possible with what they have been doing to wepon profiles in tenth. Then would it be a fine replacement?
Lots of things are issue w wartrike that may change but probbaly not..
Speed waaagh vs Waagh, vehicle vs bike, powerklaw relic vs snagga klaw
Since beastsnagga is likely going away I’d probably take beastboss over wartrike if they keep the dumb warboss limit which is hopefully also going away.
gungo wrote: They are essentially getting rid of the primarus limitations it would be a kick in the teeth to leave it in for orks.
They only got rid of them for transports. The primaris lieutenant still is limited to joining primaris units. I wouldn't be too surprised if beastbosses can only have beastsnagga boyz or squighog riders as retinue.
And there is no way that they will merge boyz and beastsnagga boyz.
Yeah, it wouldn't be consistent for them to merge the two unit profiles, especially since they released a new plastic monopose kit for boys with Big Shoota and Rokkit Launcha options that Snaggas currently don't have. If they wanted Snaggas to replace boyz, they would have had them be the sole kit available.
Personally, if we see Snagga units lose their rule bonuses against monsters/vehicles, it would be nice for them to be our Wych equivalent of preventing enemy units from falling back as a baseline rule for them now that they're incorporating a lot of their unit only strats into the actual datasheets. 2CP for a 4+ chance for an enemy not to fall back suuuuuucked, it would be much more palatable if it was something on their datasheet and give them a role that steps less on the toes of regular boyz if they're more of a disruptive bully unit that isn't focused as much on sheer numbers like a regular boyz unit is.
Good news is that we're finally getting our faction focus preview this coming week based on the warhammer community article this weekend. Fingers crossed we get some good peeks into how our army works!
Boosykes wrote: What if they just buffed the dethkilla wartrike? Like gave it a real power klaw? As that's seems possible with what they have been doing to wepon profiles in tenth. Then would it be a fine replacement?
Lots of things are issue w wartrike that may change but probbaly not..
Speed waaagh vs Waagh, vehicle vs bike, powerklaw relic vs snagga klaw
Since beastsnagga is likely going away I’d probably take beastboss over wartrike if they keep the dumb warboss limit which is hopefully also going away.
Speedwaaagh is probably going the way of the dodo or its solely linked to a Detachment. I have a gut feeling mob rule will be dropped or changed once again (over half strength get +1 to your LD) and waaagh being a detachment rule, so that it can be swapped out when we get other detachments representing the different way Orkz go to war aka dreadwaaagh, speedwaaagh, bigwaaagh.
I don't think there is really that much distinction between vehicles and mounted units, not that I saw in the leaked rulebook. No one can go through walls anymore unless their is a sneaky breachable/scalable keyword we haven't seen and being a vehicle is probably going to add the boon of being tougher in this edition. If a stormspeeder leaps from T6 to T9 I think our buggies and trike will also see a reasonable boost to say T8. We haven't seen a huge amount of Anti X keyworded stuff (it'll probably mainly be on old haywire weapons), melta and plasma look to have been taken down a notch so I'm not really seeing that many downgrades to being a vehicle so far in this edition.
I do feel like the era of Da Killaklaw is over, we only have the Warboss on Foot and the Mega Mek that have a powerklaw now, unless we are going to launch a warboss out of a assault vehicle, but relics/enhancements are a lot more rare now, no one will be able to spam 3 warlord traits and 3 relics, so hopefully our enhancements are a lot more meaningful that just one shot cruise missiles.
As for the Deffkilla, I don't think it'll get a buff in its output, rather it'll get a buffed defensive statline. T8, 10 wounds, lone operative when by warbikers and buggies. However, at the cost of -1 damage going away for good.
This would be pretty weak not being applicable to default way of taking ld checks. Helps vs stuff like screamer killer of course
Or they could simply leave it instead of creating yet another rule that does not work as intended. Orks rarely care about battleshock above half starting strength, and more orks increase the number casualties required until they start caring anyways.
I'd honestly take 'ere we go over any iteration of mob rule.
This would be pretty weak not being applicable to default way of taking ld checks. Helps vs stuff like screamer killer of course
Or they could simply leave it instead of creating yet another rule that does not work as intended. Orks rarely care about battleshock above half starting strength, and more orks increase the number casualties required until they start caring anyways.
I'd honestly take 'ere we go over any iteration of mob rule.
Agreed, and frankly I'd rather they made it so bosspoles were relevant wargear again now that characters can be attached to units, so make it so crackin' eads are a datasheet ability.
Judging from how they've treated Synapse and traditionally high Ld models like Necrons, if they do keep Mob Rule, I feel like it's going to allow a MOB unit to use another MOB unit's current model number for if they count as being under half strength or not.
gungo wrote: They are essentially getting rid of the primarus limitations it would be a kick in the teeth to leave it in for orks.
They only got rid of them for transports. The primaris lieutenant still is limited to joining primaris units. I wouldn't be too surprised if beastbosses can only have beastsnagga boyz or squighog riders as retinue.
And there is no way that they will merge boyz and beastsnagga boyz.
Beastsnaggas are essentially just skarboys
It’s silly they took a klan like snakebites with thier primal niche and just made specific units that really have no other reason to be separated as such. They want to get rid of rules bloat just get rid of those odd restrictions that don’t serve a purpose like beastsnaggas keyword.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grimskul wrote: Yeah, it wouldn't be consistent for them to merge the two unit profiles, especially since they released a new plastic monopose kit for boys with Big Shoota and Rokkit Launcha options that Snaggas currently don't have. If they wanted Snaggas to replace boyz, they would have had them be the sole kit available.
Personally, if we see Snagga units lose their rule bonuses against monsters/vehicles, it would be nice for them to be our Wych equivalent of preventing enemy units from falling back as a baseline rule for them now that they're incorporating a lot of their unit only strats into the actual datasheets. 2CP for a 4+ chance for an enemy not to fall back suuuuuucked, it would be much more palatable if it was something on their datasheet and give them a role that steps less on the toes of regular boyz if they're more of a disruptive bully unit that isn't focused as much on sheer numbers like a regular boyz unit is.
Good news is that we're finally getting our faction focus preview this coming week based on the warhammer community article this weekend. Fingers crossed we get some good peeks into how our army works!
I’m not saying they should be merged w boys I’m saying they shouldn’t be a seperated ork hierarchy within the codex and just be skar boys by another name. Just an elite melee unit.
Beastsnaggas boyz are just skarboyz with a name that GW can copyright, just like Imperial Guard has become Astra Militarum.
There is little reason to differentiate between them. Beastsnaggas are just bigger, bulkier boyz, just like Intercessors are bigger, bulkier Tacticals.
Funny to see that in the Custodes faction focus preview that Trajann's changes to his moment shackle rule had him loot Ghazzy's old 4th-7th ed rule where when he called a WAAAGH! he got a 2+ invulnerable save for a turn. They're T6 now base as well, so I assume a Warboss might go up to T7 (at the very least for Mega Armour variant if not the normal one).
Doubt that boyz go up to T6 though, I'm pretty sure we'll stay at T5. T6 may be reserved for Nobz/Meganobz.
Ya after seeing custodes I'm really interested in seeing orks tommarrow. Love me orks. Any thoughts on what the faction rule might be? As I assume the detachment rule will be waaaaagh. Come on lucky number green.
Boosykes wrote: Ya after seeing custodes I'm really interested in seeing orks tommarrow. Love me orks. Any thoughts on what the faction rule might be? As I assume the detachment rule will be waaaaagh. Come on lucky number green.
Hard to say, ideally it's not a one and done rule like it is now. I've always preferred a similar system to what the Orruk Warclans Big WAAAGH! subfaction has in terms of its battle traits with you gaining WAAAGH! points over time depending if your General is alive/on the board as well as how many Orruks made charges/were in active combat. It gave progressive buffs to hit and wound rolls, better casting and adding to charge rolls and you could blow off all your points to call a WAAAGH! once you hit your WAAAGH! points cap to give an army wide buff of +1A. Something similar to that would be nice to get some nuance in buffs across different units, since currently our regular WAAAGH! really only benefits a specific army archetype and is pretty much solely defensive buff for units like speed freek units. Giving more consistent dakka for shooty units and movement for vehicles or other things would be a good stopgap until they give us more detachments to work with in our codex.
Boosykes wrote: Ya after seeing custodes I'm really interested in seeing orks tommarrow. Love me orks. Any thoughts on what the faction rule might be? As I assume the detachment rule will be waaaaagh. Come on lucky number green.
Waaagh! is the faction rule per WarCom: "every faction gets an army ability regardless of which Detachment you’re using. This represents the totemic aspect of that faction in war – so the Orks get Waaagh!, Tyranids get Synapse, the Astra Militarum get Orders, and the Space Marines get Oath of Moment."
gungo wrote: Beastsnaggas are essentially just skarboys
It’s silly they took a klan like snakebites with thier primal niche and just made specific units that really have no other reason to be separated as such. They want to get rid of rules bloat just get rid of those odd restrictions that don’t serve a purpose like beastsnaggas keyword.
Couldn´t agree more. Cyboars and that whole extra feral tribal vibe was a great identity for Snakebitez. This thing is just annoying. Klan style, but-not-a-Klan parallell organization that has the identity of another existing Klan?
If they wanted an elite layer why didn´t they go some Scarboy path? Speedfreaks works since they are within the lore. Orks want to go fast. We get it. And ES are most common of that ilk since they are the motor Klan. Makes sense. But the feral thing is SB...it´s a Klan trait. Not a lore piece. It´s backwards to me.
Excited that we finally get out marketing day! I´d guess Waagh! is a temporary melee buff. Not to spectacular.
What I really like so far is morale rules. They matter in a good way. It´s brilliant that they let it have an impact but not in just killing your dudes. The tactical, points denying part, is smooth. I did not expect such an innovative opening of a new vector of attack. Opens design and strategy space
flaming tadpole wrote: All I know is Girlyman went from T6 to T9 so if Ghaz isn't T10 or minimum T9 imma riot.
Now with Klan keywords no longer really being a thing, I'm just hoping Ghazzy has proper aura buffs that affect more units than just basic infantry. I'm sure he'll follow the same format as most of the other major faction leaders, it would be cool if they show how he's got the Gork/Mork aspect of taktics being Kunnin but Brutal and Brutal but Kunnin.
Scactha wrote: Couldn´t agree more. Cyboars and that whole extra feral tribal vibe was a great identity for Snakebitez. This thing is just annoying. Klan style, but-not-a-Klan parallell organization that has the identity of another existing Klan?
If they wanted an elite layer why didn´t they go some Scarboy path? Speedfreaks works since they are within the lore. Orks want to go fast. We get it. And ES are most common of that ilk since they are the motor Klan. Makes sense. But the feral thing is SB...it´s a Klan trait. Not a lore piece. It´s backwards to me.
Sorry, but you are both absolutely wrong on this. Feral boyz have been a long time part of ork lore. Not every feral boy is a snakebite, just like not every speed freek is evil suns and not every kommado is blood axe.
The most famous example is probably Ol' Zogwort which most people incorrectly put with snakebites when he really is a feral freeboota, so the notion at least goes all the way back to 4th edition.
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flaming tadpole wrote: All I know is Girlyman went from T6 to T9 so if Ghaz isn't T10 or minimum T9 imma riot.
Depends on whether Ghaz is a leader like Abaddon or a conditional lone operative like Gulliman. Lone operatives need different defensive profiles than lone operatives, GW finally learned that. Hopefully the players eventually will too.
Please keep this in mind before losing your mind over an abstract number that has no real meaning in the lore.
Personally I'd take T6 and a retinue of MANz over lone operative and T9 any day.
Scactha wrote: Couldn´t agree more. Cyboars and that whole extra feral tribal vibe was a great identity for Snakebitez. This thing is just annoying. Klan style, but-not-a-Klan parallell organization that has the identity of another existing Klan?
If they wanted an elite layer why didn´t they go some Scarboy path? Speedfreaks works since they are within the lore. Orks want to go fast. We get it. And ES are most common of that ilk since they are the motor Klan. Makes sense. But the feral thing is SB...it´s a Klan trait. Not a lore piece. It´s backwards to me.
Sorry, but you are both absolutely wrong on this. Feral boyz have been a long time part of ork lore. Not every feral boy is a snakebite, just like not every speed freek is evil suns and not every kommado is blood axe.
The most famous example is probably Ol' Zogwort which most people incorrectly put with snakebites when he really is a feral freeboota, so the notion at least goes all the way back to 4th edition.
Fair point. They are definitely canon. I overinterpreted BS as SB! Makes me like them more now. Good thing
Kinda disappointed that our WAAAGH! is basically unchanged at all from the current balance dataslate, feels really lazy. I guess it's better that it's not just CORE units now? And you get to use it more defensively, but I was kind of hoping for something that was more passive in the background with an option to call a WAAAGH! especially since it seems we don't get 2 stages of it anymore.
The detachment giving the entire army exploding 6's in melee, is also...not bad I guess, but very underwhelming since it feels like we only got half of a Goff trait and that's it.
BS profile is interesting that they're 5+ armour base, not sure if that will apply to boyz as well, but they've got 6+ FNP instead of an invuln which is a mixed bag and probably annoying to DG players. The bigger reveal are choppas being AP-1 still, which is actually a significant deal since that means our boyz won't just bounce off things like 2+ save units. I presume since the power snappa was originally AP-2 but is now AP-1, that the power klaw will be indeed AP-2 like the SM powerfist.
Also, looks like Jidmah got his wish, Ghazzy is only T6 but able to actually able to join squads now. Makari is there with him along for the ride too! (though I feel like he'll be quite vulnerable with only 1 wound).
The loss of 'Ere We Go is going to be the hardest hit IMO, makes charging dicey for us and positioning even more important during a WAAAGH! to make sure you're not left to the whims of the dice as strongly. Also seems confirmed that Mob Rule is gone and not replaced in any meaningful capacity.
Kinda disappointed that our WAAAGH! is basically unchanged at all from the current balance dataslate, feels really lazy. I guess it's better that it's not just CORE units now? And you get to use it more defensively, but I was kind of hoping for something that was more passive in the background with an option to call a WAAAGH! especially since it seems we don't get 2 stages of it anymore.
The detachment giving the entire army exploding 6's in melee, is also...not bad I guess, but very underwhelming since it feels like we only got half of a Goff trait and that's it.
BS profile is interesting that they're 5+ armour base, not sure if that will apply to boyz as well, but they've got 6+ FNP instead of an invuln which is a mixed bag and probably annoying to DG players. The bigger reveal are choppas being AP-1 still, which is actually a significant deal since that means our boyz won't just bounce off things like 2+ save units.
I presume since the power snappa was originally AP-2 but is now AP-1, that the power klaw will be indeed AP-2 like the SM powerfist.
Also, looks like Jidmah got his wish, Ghazzy is only T6 but able to actually able to join squads now. Makari is there with him along for the ride too! (though I feel like he'll be quite vulnerable with only 1 wound).
Makari will also be part of the unit Ghaz joins ([leader] has a paragraph on multi model character units) and therefor can't be a targeted except by [precision]. Which, if they're going to gamble on that 2++, feel free.
For me the most interesting thing in the article is Mork's Roar acting as a sample for dakka weapons simply changing to [rapid fire x]
Beast Snaggas' monster hunter ability is bad. Reroll to hit is all well and good, but they've got no way to compensate for the T increases on vehicles and monsters, and low AP to boot.
One can hope, because seeing ghaz with Toughness 6 makes me very sad.
Ghaz lacking Monster keyword means he will probably be able to run straight through ruins now, along side his retinue of bodyguards. So while Ghaz is "Slower" going from 7" to 5" he effectively became a lot faster, by giving no feths about ruins.
The fact our entire army, not just core and character gets advance and charge, and you can use a stratagem to get +2 advance and charge on top of that is great. It means much greater flexibility in the units we want to pick and can make for an interesting comeback for things such as deff dreads and Killa Kanz. Since killa kanz could never reroll charges for free, well we got nerfed and none of our units can now. But that also makes them a better choice. Units that were inherently slow and useless before no longer is.
Maybe we even see people use hunta rigs rather than Kill rigs.
Im not sure if i find ghaz underwhelming in that he has no real abilities, but over all hes an absolute beat stick because he can run through buildings and maybe even sit in transports. This would also indicate he might get +1 to his save when in a ruin? When shot at i mean.
But the idea of giving ghaz +2 advance and charge and seeing him not getting stuck having to run around buildings but is now plowing through them, is great.
He did lose some buffs for his army though, now he only buffs his own little retinue i think.
Funny how the only one of that combo that gives an aura buff is Makari.
Grimskul wrote: looks like Jidmah got his wish, Ghazzy is only T6
REEEEEE
In seriousness I spose it’s fine since he can join Manz so long as the whole unit will be able to fit in a bw, which if not ghaz is completely fethed with that 5” move. I’d assume they’re getting rid of that “dumb counts as 18 models” rule since he isn’t a monster anymore though.
Overall, rules preview was about what I expected. Pretty vanilla and uninspiring, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but I was hoping for a bit more spice. Also thought they were gonna show off a stratagem that allowed us to resurrect boyz like other horde armies have gotten. Stompa at least is looking good, hopefully won’t be 1k points lol.
Keeping the -1 ap choppas is nice plus with the 6” move gives me hope green tide will be more viable this edition, although the blast rule is still a pretty big deterrent against that. Losing mob rule hurts at least until we potentially get it back in the codex. Until then the ork tactics might have to lean more into being hyper offensive to compensate for being battleshocked a large portion of the game.
Forceride wrote: You will need meganobz for gazz escort, and no longer monster.. and we also lost charge rerolls.
The buggy gun is now 1 less ap and BS5, but gains D6+6 and ignore cover.
Also waagh now last's 1 game round..
makari looks like a must take now, he lost wounds and rules FNP6.
I wonder if we will be able to transport gazz now.
It feels like a net nerf.
Agree massive nerfs
Ghaz is still slow as shat… he’s still decent at melee but will never make it.. almsot require a battlewagon and a squad of meganobs now just to reach melee..
Waagh only 1 turn is brutal.. that 5++ invul was the main reason orks survived as much as they did..
The Dakka kannon is 3d6 still following the bad variance of rolling 3 to 18 hits as the stompa main wpn… not impressed. I really expected this to get the same treatment the guard cannons did with something like 10 or 12+d6…
I don’t know if reroll charges are gone but if they are we are screwed without some form of movement buff on a melee centric army…a strat usable on a single unit a turn that is mathematically worse then reroll charges isn’t a good replacement, but I guess is you are already dropping 700 points on a ghaz/meganob battlewagon bomb you kinda require to use this strat on them for a turn 2 or 3 charge..
+ Choppas kept their AP + Army-wide 6" and 5+ armor almost confirmed + Beastsnagga rules massively improved - rerolls instead of +1, FNP instead of 6++ + One of the best Waaagh!s we have ever had stayed as it was, minus keyword insanity. + No clan lock on Thrakka + Thrakka is just as deadly + The buff to his unit is insanely powerful + Thrakka is INFANTRY! Which means he can ride transports. Thrakka in a naut anyone? + Makari is now a shadow field for Thrakka + Dat mega choppa. I want a rematch of that stompa vs knights game now. Tankshock for 8-9 MW anyone? + Squig buggy has both launchas rolled into one, loses 1 shot on average, but gains range on the small launcha in return. It also gets an AP reduction but ignores cover, including the one you get from firing indirectly. Essentially the gun which broke the game once during this edition more or less stayed just as powerful, but gained quality of life + "Less deadliness" nerfs below average compared to other armies. We got to keep most of our good stuff, nerfs mostly to stuff we didn't care about anyways + Orks is never beaten works for the whole unit, take that glass cannon melee units! o Detachment rule boring, but decent o Considering how people are shooting tournament armies off the table, a mostly unchanged deff kannon is ok, I guess? o 'ere we go is lost as an army rule, but came back as an extremely powerful stratagem. With free strategic reserves, this will be a PITA for our opponents. Also doubles as ramming speed replacement. Hopefully tellyporta is still a thing. o ld7+ is not awesome (58.33% chance to pass), but better than ld6/7 in 9th. o Dakka weapons seem to stick around as rapid fire. I'd rather have assault weapons back, thankyouverymuch. - Snappa klaw got even worse - Thrakka and Makari got slower - Makari's aura seems useless
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RedNoak wrote: so basically.... when ghaz and makari are the only ones left... ghaz practically gains a 2++ until failed?
The shadowfield has been a snotling in a snow globe all along.
Grimskul wrote: looks like Jidmah got his wish, Ghazzy is only T6
REEEEEE
In seriousness I spose it’s fine since he can join Manz so long as the whole unit will be able to fit in a bw, which if not ghaz is completely fethed with that 5” move. I’d assume they’re getting rid of that “dumb counts as 18 models” rule since he isn’t a monster anymore though.
It might hint at MANz getting back to 5" movement as well. You can now outrun a deathguard terminator
gungo wrote: Waagh only 1 turn is brutal.. that 5++ invul was the main reason orks survived as much as they did..
The 5++ will last two turns just like before, but you can now use it to defend yourself when not going first. The second stage with 6++ went away, but we got army-wide +1 to armor in return and I rarely felt like it was game changing anyways.
Im usually on point with you jidmah but I’m not seeing the combos on this..
Ghaz unless he’s super cheap is going to be prohibitively expensive for a unit that only buffs 1 unit of meganobs..is to slow to make it in combat… practically requires a unit of mega nobs and a battlewagon.. and without reroll charges can be an very expensive whiff.. while the +2 move and charge strat is nice.. Strats are only for a single unit a turn and is a worse replacement for reroll charges…
Only real positive combo I see is dread Waagh might actually be decent now especially since Waagh isn’t warboss locked… orks is never beaten is much better on those expensive melee that never had a chance to swing in combat units.
Edit-did the article say we have army wide 5+ because I can’t assume based on the beastsnagga unit that’s already a pushed unit that it means all orks are 5+ army wide..
Edit-did the article say we have army wide 5+ because I can’t assume based on the beastsnagga unit that’s already a pushed unit that it means all orks are 5+ army wide..
No, but if it helps the rumor at all the Weird boy also went to a 5+ and I believe he just had a 6+ before. Granted it's only two units so it's way too early to call, but it could be a possibility.
Edit-did the article say we have army wide 5+ because I can’t assume based on the beastsnagga unit that’s already a pushed unit that it means all orks are 5+ army wide..
No, but if it helps the rumor at all the Weird boy also went to a 5+ and I believe he just had a 6+ before. Granted it's only two units so it's way too early to call, but it could be a possibility.
I think it's reasonable to assume that either a 5+ save has become standard or is at the very least now present in more units than just characters, so we have tiered units of armour saves rather than the 6+ or 4+ binary we currently have between Nob-sized and non-Nob infantry units. So specialist units like tankbustas, burna boyz, and lootas should all have that baseline presumably. If we do have a 6+, I presume it would really only remain on things like regular Ork boyz, Stormboyz, and Gretchin.
Why does people say Ghaz is slow? He had move 7 before but HAD to go through corridors, meaning he would often waste at much movement just going to where he was. With the lack of a sweep profile, he also couldnt go through even 10 guardsmen blocking him (unless he had lucky exploding sixes) he could thus also be bottlenecked. And lets not forget you never wanted ghaz to just sit out in the open (at least not in the opening stages of your games) so you actually did use line of sight.
Now you have move 5 (sure thats slower) but you can actually just plow through walls. You dont have to waste movement going from behind a wall, out in to the open, then move up. You now sit behind a wall obscurred and hidden, and plow through it without having to go around the wall. You also cant be bottlenecked anymore and cant really be blocked from going where you want to.
While i would love for him to retain move 7, i dont really mind it now that he has infantry keyword. I see him as being faster now, not slower.
A couple squads of beastsnaggas near makaris aura for the lethal hits would make them actually pretty decent against vehicles with the re roll hits to fish for 6’s.
gungo wrote: Waagh only 1 turn is brutal.. that 5++ invul was the main reason orks survived as much as they did..
The 5++ will last two turns just like before, but you can now use it to defend yourself when not going first.
The second stage with 6++ went away, but we got army-wide +1 to armor in return and I rarely felt like it was game changing anyways.
Beardedragon wrote: Why does people say Ghaz is slow? He had move 7 before but HAD to go through corridors, meaning he would often waste at much movement just going to where he was. With the lack of a sweep profile, he also couldnt go through even 10 guardsmen blocking him (unless he had lucky exploding sixes) he could thus also be bottlenecked. And lets not forget you never wanted ghaz to just sit out in the open (at least not in the opening stages of your games) so you actually did use line of sight.
Have we seen confirmation teleporting through walls is still a thing? Haven't seen yet. Leak didn't cover movement/terrain rule. Just gave note in charge move ability to ignore short terrain.
Beardedragon wrote: Why does people say Ghaz is slow? He had move 7 before but HAD to go through corridors, meaning he would often waste at much movement just going to where he was. With the lack of a sweep profile, he also couldnt go through even 10 guardsmen blocking him (unless he had lucky exploding sixes) he could thus also be bottlenecked. And lets not forget you never wanted ghaz to just sit out in the open (at least not in the opening stages of your games) so you actually did use line of sight.
Have we seen confirmation teleporting through walls is still a thing? Haven't seen yet. Leak didn't cover movement/terrain rule. Just gave note in charge move ability to ignore short terrain.
we have not, but i highly doubt that all ruins suddenly dont allow infantry to pass through them. What we HAVE seen from terrain features, havent really changed a lot from their original design.
Beardedragon wrote: Why does people say Ghaz is slow? He had move 7 before but HAD to go through corridors, meaning he would often waste at much movement just going to where he was. With the lack of a sweep profile, he also couldnt go through even 10 guardsmen blocking him (unless he had lucky exploding sixes) he could thus also be bottlenecked. And lets not forget you never wanted ghaz to just sit out in the open (at least not in the opening stages of your games) so you actually did use line of sight.
Now you have move 5 (sure thats slower) but you can actually just plow through walls. You dont have to waste movement going from behind a wall, out in to the open, then move up. You now sit behind a wall obscurred and hidden, and plow through it without having to go around the wall. You also cant be bottlenecked anymore and cant really be blocked from going where you want to.
While i would love for him to retain move 7, i dont really mind it now that he has infantry keyword. I see him as being faster now, not slower.
First off ghaz was slow before even at 7in movement with reroll charges and advance and charge.. that was always his main issue..his durability was ok and his melee was great.
5 movement doesn’t make him faster you are pretty much required to put him and his unit in a battlewagon now just to get him safe and get him up the board. It will take him minimum 2 turns just to be in range of an objective in no man’s land… unless someone’s looking to get into combat with ghaz he’s pretty much avoidable now… and much easier to just shoot off the board… if you need proof of this just compare ghaz in 10th Ed to manz in 9th. They have essentially the same movement profile and we’re only really useful as MAN missiles in a trukk. Now this requires ghaz, makari and a unit of meganobs so pretty much requires a battlewagon.. it’s a lot of points for a dedicated melee unit.. things might be a little better if we get a tellyporta strat but it’s still going to be alot of points. Which has a huge target on its back, and is an easy target to shot as they try to walk across the board.
Although I agree with you monster keyword was bad but it was more an annoyance as I tried to plod across the board just to get where I wanted to go before.
Edit: do we know of klan rules still exist? Or is it all army wide rules and detachment rules?
Yes Ghaz was slow before no doubt about it. But he werent made more fast by me, having to keep him far enough behind line of sight walls that i would waste at least 3 inches moving out before i could move up.
Now i can keep him up against a wall, and simply run out through the wall, saving me a lot of movement.
On a waagh phase with the faction trait giving sustained hits and makari giving lethal hits does every 6 to hit give you 2 auto wounds to units within 12? Cause that's a lot of choppa to the face if so. And once you call your waaagh you just put anything with an AP value on makari. He's a bullet magnet after that imo.
And another thing that pops into mind. A leader joins a unit then the unit jumps into a vehicle with firing points. Does that mean an embarked unit can finally be affected by leaders? My imagination is saying flashgits with baddruck in something then getting buffed by a mek for 1+ to hit on the whole lot. Though I don't know all the workybits yet of course.
That's fair enough. I sort of thought that a critical hit that procs an additional hit would have that extra hit be considered a 6. If that makes sense.
But it would be a bit cheeky to double dip like that.
Main thing that annoys me about that preview is basically all our buffs are melee focused now. Army wide Goff melee, what bout shootin? Nah, no shootin' help. So once again half the codex will be meh at best? because the waaagh! is a melee, charge, and invul boost across the board rather than bonus AP and shots for dakka/heavy weapons.
Now, this is just the index and i believe orks are one of the earlier codexes coming out so that might not be a long suffrage to deal with. But it still annoys me when GW constantly ignores half the damn codex with their army/relic/character buffs. Its the whole reason walkers arent that great in the current book...nothing helps them and they arent awesome on their own. Dont get me wrong, our melee is going to be rude which is awesome, but im a Badmoonz i like my big guns and explosive weaponry and right now i see absolutely nothing for ork shooting, just a lot of melee.
Vineheart01 wrote: Main thing that annoys me about that preview is basically all our buffs are melee focused now. Army wide Goff melee, what bout shootin? Nah, no shootin' help.
So once again half the codex will be meh at best? because the waaagh! is a melee, charge, and invul boost across the board rather than bonus AP and shots for dakka/heavy weapons.
Now, this is just the index and i believe orks are one of the earlier codexes coming out so that might not be a long suffrage to deal with. But it still annoys me when GW constantly ignores half the damn codex with their army/relic/character buffs.
Its the whole reason walkers arent that great in the current book...nothing helps them and they arent awesome on their own. Dont get me wrong, our melee is going to be rude which is awesome, but im a Badmoonz i like my big guns and explosive weaponry and right now i see absolutely nothing for ork shooting, just a lot of melee.
Agreed. The dakka side of things has been pretty neglected and it's weird given that shoota boyz for a while back in 5th-7th were seen as the superior choice for a while over choppa boyz. Ork shooting really got lost in the arms race and barring a few exceptions when things were priced very cheaply (mek gunz spam, flyer spam when it was allowed), we've had to rely on skewing to melee rush lists and lots of infantry shooting units like lootas, tankbustas and flash gitz have been left out in the cold to basically be awkwardly unable to take advantage of either WAAAGH!'s we've been given.
Some information is missing. We know that little meks give a good buff to shooting. 1+ to hit potentially on that stompa's deffkannon is a rather nice boost.
Does Baddrukk give a boost? Will the mekboy workshop actually be useful? What about big meks? Will Wortsnagga actually buff something besides basic runts? Is there a detachment rule that focuses on dakka?
So many questions regarding just dakka. But as Bricky said, it woulda been nice if they had shown us the rules for Rokkits not the Deffkannon.
Exactly. This is nice funny discussion but we see abou 5% of the puzzel.
- we dont know the core rules ( say ahllo to engagement range and terrain rules)
- we dont know all the ork rules
- we dont know the point costs. For 100p it is a great Ghazkhul. For 700p it is a nonsence.
Honestly, meta is always somethin different than they show in the previous. Preview is about melee Ghazzy? So the most interesting will be Big Mek with buggies or something like that
gungo wrote: Im usually on point with you jidmah but I’m not seeing the combos on this..
Ghaz unless he’s super cheap is going to be prohibitively expensive for a unit that only buffs 1 unit of meganobs..is to slow to make it in combat… practically requires a unit of mega nobs and a battlewagon.. and without reroll charges can be an very expensive whiff.. while the +2 move and charge strat is nice.. Strats are only for a single unit a turn and is a worse replacement for reroll charges…
The replacement for 'ere we go is an army-wide +1" to movement for infantry.
Yes, I would have preferred keeping 'ere we go, but there is no reason to be bummed out over getting +1" instead.
Edit-did the article say we have army wide 5+ because I can’t assume based on the beastsnagga unit that’s already a pushed unit that it means all orks are 5+ army wide..
Beastsnaggas and weirdboy both have 5+ armor.
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Grimskul wrote: I think it's reasonable to assume that either a 5+ save has become standard or is at the very least now present in more units than just characters, so we have tiered units of armour saves rather than the 6+ or 4+ binary we currently have between Nob-sized and non-Nob infantry units. So specialist units like tankbustas, burna boyz, and lootas should all have that baseline presumably. If we do have a 6+, I presume it would really only remain on things like regular Ork boyz, Stormboyz, and Gretchin.
Why would stormboyz and boyz have different save than a weirdboy or beast snaggas? Both are pretty much naked, while boyz and stomboyz wear actual armor, helmets, steel jaws, etc.
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Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote: Small correction, second turn of waagh also provided +1a +1S. That will be missed more than the 6++
Absolutely, but gungo wasn't talking about that.
I reserve my judgement on that until I see what our support characters can do.
Ghaz being T6 is somehow strange given the size of the model. A custodes is actually tougher? Wtf
flaming tadpole wrote: All I know is Girlyman went from T6 to T9 so if Ghaz isn't T10 or minimum T9 imma riot.
Depends on whether Ghaz is a leader like Abaddon or a conditional lone operative like Gulliman. Lone operatives need different defensive profiles than leaders, GW finally learned that. Hopefully the players eventually will too.
Please keep this in mind before losing your mind over an abstract number that has no real meaning in the lore.
Personally I'd take T6 and a retinue of MANz over lone operative and T9 any day.
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Tomsug wrote: 3 x Squigbuggy with Mek giving them +1 to hit !!!
I'm fairly sure buggy squadrons will be gone. There is zero reason to keep them without battle roles, and GW does not want us to run more than 3 of each buggy anyways.
Unless meks are prohibitively expensive, they will be a great asset to any shooting army, whether they buff buggies, mek guns, walkers or a transport full of lootas.
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gungo wrote: 5 movement doesn’t make him faster you are pretty much required to put him and his unit in a battlewagon now just to get him safe and get him up the board. It will take him minimum 2 turns just to be in range of an objective in no man’s land… unless someone’s looking to get into combat with ghaz he’s pretty much avoidable now… and much easier to just shoot off the board… if you need proof of this just compare ghaz in 10th Ed to manz in 9th. They have essentially the same movement profile and we’re only really useful as MAN missiles in a trukk. Now this requires ghaz, makari and a unit of meganobs so pretty much requires a battlewagon..
There still is the chance that Ghaz can join other units (beast snaggas with that unit buff would be dope), and in 5th we already had Ghaz riding a wagon by himself as a tournament-viable strategy, and with his trusty shadowfield banner carrier it might be again. It really heavily depends on his points. I can see that profile being as cheap as 200 points now.
Edit: do we know of klan rules still exist? Or is it all army wide rules and detachment rules?
No more paint enforced army rules.
Waaagh! Tribe is goff, and we will most likely see "Speed Freeks", "Sneaky Gitz", "Feral Boyz", "Lucky Gitz", "Flashy Gitz" with the codex. Or maybe they get creative and we get "Dread mob", "speed mob", "Deff Wing", "Dakka Waaagh!" and other traditional archtypes.
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cody.d. wrote: And another thing that pops into mind. A leader joins a unit then the unit jumps into a vehicle with firing points. Does that mean an embarked unit can finally be affected by leaders? My imagination is saying flashgits with baddruck in something then getting buffed by a mek for 1+ to hit on the whole lot. Though I don't know all the workybits yet of course.
[Firing deck X] is the new open topped ability. It works in a way that the transport "gains" the weapons used by its passengers, so a battlewagon with [Firing Deck 22] that carries Badrukk and 10 flash gits would gains 10 Snazzguns and Da Rippa and would be able to shoot them. These guns would not be affected by any buff Bardukk provides to his unit, but it will be affected by buffs the battlewagon has - like the previewed mek ability.
Vineheart01 wrote: Main thing that annoys me about that preview is basically all our buffs are melee focused now. Army wide Goff melee, what bout shootin? Nah, no shootin' help.
So once again half the codex will be meh at best? because the waaagh! is a melee, charge, and invul boost across the board rather than bonus AP and shots for dakka/heavy weapons.
Now, this is just the index and i believe orks are one of the earlier codexes coming out so that might not be a long suffrage to deal with. But it still annoys me when GW constantly ignores half the damn codex with their army/relic/character buffs.
Its the whole reason walkers arent that great in the current book...nothing helps them and they arent awesome on their own. Dont get me wrong, our melee is going to be rude which is awesome, but im a Badmoonz i like my big guns and explosive weaponry and right now i see absolutely nothing for ork shooting, just a lot of melee.
Agreed. The dakka side of things has been pretty neglected and it's weird given that shoota boyz for a while back in 5th-7th were seen as the superior choice for a while over choppa boyz. Ork shooting really got lost in the arms race and barring a few exceptions when things were priced very cheaply (mek gunz spam, flyer spam when it was allowed), we've had to rely on skewing to melee rush lists and lots of infantry shooting units like lootas, tankbustas and flash gitz have been left out in the cold to basically be awkwardly unable to take advantage of either WAAAGH!'s we've been given.
All of the relevant ork shooting we have seen so far pretty much stayed the same, while almost everyone but knights got medium to big nerfs to it.
We've also seen the mek and the firing deck buff to battlewagons, and the 5++ part of the Waaagh! is very useful to both speedwaaaghs and dread mobs even now. It's a free KFF for our whole army - which was a mandatory part of any vehicle lists all the way back to 4th.
And let's not forget that all or vehicle will be jumping up to at least T8/T9 on top of that.
Like every edition before, I feel like what will make or breake ork shooting is the profile of the rokkit. It's just that important to orks.
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Tomsug wrote: - we dont know the core rules ( say ahllo to engagement range and terrain rules)
Engagement range is 1" horizontally, 5" vertically. The page surfaced shortly after the first two leaks, but terrain might influence that though.
PaddyMick wrote: I like what i've seen so far; big questions for me are all about squad sizes, wargear options and whether i'll be able to make an old school retinue.
@jidmah are you sure we are getting +1'' move? I know beastnaggas have it, but Gaz is still M5'', boyz might be too?
I assume that Thrakka, like Abaddon, has been changed to fit in with the units he is going to join. MA, like all TEQ, are usually 1" slower than their less armored counterparts.
PaddyMick wrote: I like what i've seen so far; big questions for me are all about squad sizes, wargear options and whether i'll be able to make an old school retinue.
@jidmah are you sure we are getting +1'' move? I know beastnaggas have it, but Gaz is still M5'', boyz might be too?
Snagga Boys are M6 according to the FF, and so was the weirdboy if I remember rightly.
Ghaz being M5 tracks with the theory that Mega Armour units will be 1" slower.
I 100% agree that Ghaz is probably about as killy as before, and probably breaks even as far as movement is concerned. His short term durability is reduced as he's no longer got the wound cap, but long term he has the 2++ and you'll have to chew through a load of MANz and Makari before he gets touched.
Shooting looks like it will be decent as we haven't had any obvious nerfs outside of the potential loss of Speedwaaagh. Depending on how Lootas/Tankbustas/Flash Gitz pan out we could have a lot of decent options in Mek Guns, Buggies, and Wagon castles all being boosted by meks.
Hopefully the Gunwagon is still a separate datasheet and not awful so we can load up on gunboats and punchboats.
Vineheart01 wrote: Main thing that annoys me about that preview is basically all our buffs are melee focused now. Army wide Goff melee, what bout shootin? Nah, no shootin' help.
Tittliewinks22 wrote: So what is the purpose of the "close combat weapon" profile on the beastsnaggas?
And if you take the Thump Gun, does that mean you cannot fire it and charge in the same turn?
If you trade your choppa for a thump gun, you no longer have a choppa. Unless you are deff skullz, then you might have a blue choppa.
IMO a missed opportunity, in KillTeam the default combat weapon for orks was "Fists".
There are no limitations to shooting and charging in the same turn whatsoever. You can't advance and shoot it anymore though.
Jidmah wrote: Man, so much salt about almost nothing.
gungo wrote: Im usually on point with you jidmah but I’m not seeing the combos on this..
Ghaz unless he’s super cheap is going to be prohibitively expensive for a unit that only buffs 1 unit of meganobs..is to slow to make it in combat… practically requires a unit of mega nobs and a battlewagon.. and without reroll charges can be an very expensive whiff.. while the +2 move and charge strat is nice.. Strats are only for a single unit a turn and is a worse replacement for reroll charges…
The replacement for 'ere we go is an army-wide +1" to movement for infantry.
Yes, I would have preferred keeping 'ere we go, but there is no reason to be bummed out over getting +1" instead.
Egh that +1 movement while nice doesn’t make most charges successful.. orks try to pack most of thier army into a single turn waaagh charge.. this usually means we are using kommandos with thier set 9in deepstrike, manz in trukks, dreads in tellyporta, warbikers, beastboys in killrigs, stormboys, and da jumped boys…while that 1in movement on boys is nice it doesn’t help all those 9in charges units orks relied on for reliable charges… we will have substantially less successful charges without the reroll. And while the +2 strat is nice it’s a movement phase only strat used preemptively usable only once a turn to increase reliability on 1 unit it doesn’t help when you fail a charge.
I don't disagree, but I want to point out that you are describing mechanics and a meta of an edition that will soon be just as relevant as 4th edition, not an army identity.
'ere we go was fun while it lasted, but it's by no means necessary for successful charges - and for that one charge you absolutely have to make you can still use the new stratagem and command rerolls.
The top things I'm most curious about in terms of the new datasheets are:
Painboyz (do we get a proppa 5+ FNP or model revival/healing? what's the difference between a Painboy/Painboss besides stats?)
Big Mek with KFF (is he staying an aura character or is his buff only with the unit he's with?)
Big Mek with SAG (I feel like he'll just get devastating wounds baseline versus what we have now needing to roll a 11+ on strength for the weapon)
If we have the current system for how many buggies we can take (most likely).
Zodgrot Wortsnagga, can he finally have rules that do something meaningful for grots? Hell, maybe runtherds are just part of grot units again, or at the very least should be able to join them.
[quote=Grimskul 800443 11538689 e27273b86cadc80f5df667dad365665f.jpg Hell, maybe runtherds are just part of grot units again, or at the very least should be able to join them.
I hope the runtherds are optional.
I have no interest in having any more orks in my gretchin based force than minimally necessary.
Jidmah wrote: I'm greedy. I want a 5++ KFF with a 6" aura.
I mean we used to have that (against range only) for a while before 9th came knocking about. I miss the old days of the mega force field, 4+ invuln, felt real proppa when you had it on a Kustom Stompa. Super expensive? Yup. Worth it? Probably not. Flashy as hell? Gork yeah.
Tomsug wrote: Exactly. This is nice funny discussion but we see abou 5% of the puzzel.
- we dont know the core rules ( say ahllo to engagement range and terrain rules)
- we dont know all the ork rules
- we dont know the point costs. For 100p it is a great Ghazkhul. For 700p it is a nonsence.
Honestly, meta is always somethin different than they show in the previous. Preview is about melee Ghazzy? So the most interesting will be Big Mek with buggies or something like that
Technically we do know the core rules, they are floating about on the net. Imgur has a copy if i recall.
But yeah, until we get those points rules this is all a bit abstract. Ghaz has a wonderful buff for his unit 1+ to hit and wound can turn a lotta damage. But what units can he go with? Meganobz confirmed, but can he let even choppa lads harm the average tank on a 4+?
Unless they get an invul Meganobz my be risky. That cabal ability to turn off armour saves is scarey.
flaming tadpole wrote: if it was a 4++ for a single unit I'd still take it, but 5++ I don't think I ever would.
Off topic but that new speedfreaks game looks amazing. 🤤
Yeah, between that, the Blood, Shootas, and Teef game, and a few other games recently, it's nice not just getting another SM centric game in the video game space and we're getting good mileage there and even in terms of standalone novels.
I'm downloading the alpha for the game now, so I'm looking forward to some Twisted Metal Orky gameplay. It's good to be green!
Hells ya man. Gonna try to get into the alpha too hopefully. Looks a lot like the game crossout but even more fast paced and chaotic. Loved me some blood and teef too only wish it hadn’t been so short.
Just played the Alpha for Speed Freeks, it was actually surprisingly good! Obviously a bit barebones gameplay wise at the moment but the core gameplay is fun. I also like how they distinguished the different Ork rigs you can play as and how different combinations work well. Right now I'm a big fan of the Looted Tank and the Grot Mega Tank since they have the most dakka output, though the Deffkilla Wartrike is also quite solid. So far the main underwhelming one is the Shokkjump Dragsta IMO, just because you have to be somewhat accurate with their low rate of fire.
ccs wrote: [quote=Grimskul 800443 11538689 e27273b86cadc80f5df667dad365665f.jpg Hell, maybe runtherds are just part of grot units again, or at the very least should be able to join them.
Don' t be scary! Rutherds part of the Grot units? Do you think I have the Rutherds for my 120 grots? I sold them or used for conversions!
flaming tadpole wrote: if it was a 4++ for a single unit I'd still take it, but 5++ I don't think I ever would.
Off topic but that new speedfreaks game looks amazing. 🤤
Yeah, between that, the Blood, Shootas, and Teef game, and a few other games recently, it's nice not just getting another SM centric game in the video game space and we're getting good mileage there and even in terms of standalone novels.
I'm downloading the alpha for the game now, so I'm looking forward to some Twisted Metal Orky gameplay. It's good to be green!
That game trailer was the first one in a looong time which genuinely made me drop my jaw. I'm going to play the hell out of that game.
The TL;DR summary is that we lose 5% charge success on most ranges, but getter at hail marry charges. The stratagem is insanely effective on turns when you call a Waaagh!, still netting a 60%+ chance to make a charge against a target 20" away from an ork infantry unit at the beginning of your turn.
I guess moving away from orks when you call the Waaagh! at the beginning of your opponent's turn isn't really an option. Just make sure to have CP open for 'ere we go.
My main concern for Ghaz at the moment is getting bogged down in combats where his massive damage potential gets wasted. It really plays your hand into giving him a bodyguard to help him get through swarms of garbage infantry.
It would have been nice for Ghaz to have a Sweep attack like the other primarch type characters. Especially now that he can't shoot in melee.
Afrodactyl wrote: My main concern for Ghaz at the moment is getting bogged down in combats where his massive damage potential gets wasted. It really plays your hand into giving him a bodyguard to help him get through swarms of garbage infantry.
It would have been nice for Ghaz to have a Sweep attack like the other primarch type characters.
I think GW split traditional "supreme commanders" and primarchs into two separate tiers again. Thrakka compares quite well to guys like Abaddon, Ahriman, Trajann or the Swarmlord.
Gulliman and Angron are just a different league, and let's face it - no matter how much we love our ork fluff, there is no way Thrakka would win in a fair duel against any of the Daemon Primarchs or the Lion. Even Gulliman, despite being one of the worst duelists among the primarchs, and the bum of every 40k joke would still easily defeat Ragnar, wo already is exceptional amongst Space Marines. And let's not forget that his tabletop incarnation is equipped with insanely powerful relics.
I think the wish for being like Gulliman will disappear once you've blown up a couple of lone operatives by jumping a wazzbom or dakkajet within 12" of them
ccs wrote: [quote=Grimskul 800443 11538689 e27273b86cadc80f5df667dad365665f.jpg Hell, maybe runtherds are just part of grot units again, or at the very least should be able to join them.
Don' t be scary! Rutherds part of the Grot units? Do you think I have the Rutherds for my 120 grots? I sold them or used for conversions!
Not my words you quoted there....
I'm the guy who DOESN'T want runtherds in my grot units.
If they're optional, "meh".
If they're integral..... :(
So looking at the GK faction focus, I'm hopeful that Ghaz is actually going to take a substantial points cut. The Grandmaster in Dreadknight is faster, shootier, about as punchy, about as tough (when you consider Ghaz' 2++ through Makari) and gets cheap CP use.
Assuming the Grand Master stays at around the 200ish mark (after buying weapons), we could actually have a fairly cheap supreme leader if they're being pointed based on ability.
Grimskul wrote: Just played the Alpha for Speed Freeks, it was actually surprisingly good! Obviously a bit barebones gameplay wise at the moment but the core gameplay is fun. I also like how they distinguished the different Ork rigs you can play as and how different combinations work well. Right now I'm a big fan of the Looted Tank and the Grot Mega Tank since they have the most dakka output, though the Deffkilla Wartrike is also quite solid. So far the main underwhelming one is the Shokkjump Dragsta IMO, just because you have to be somewhat accurate with their low rate of fire.
Just tried the game as well, and ironically the SJD is my favorite, and I'm completely crushing the opposition with it. For an alpha, it's a very well done game.
Grimskul wrote: Just played the Alpha for Speed Freeks, it was actually surprisingly good! Obviously a bit barebones gameplay wise at the moment but the core gameplay is fun. I also like how they distinguished the different Ork rigs you can play as and how different combinations work well. Right now I'm a big fan of the Looted Tank and the Grot Mega Tank since they have the most dakka output, though the Deffkilla Wartrike is also quite solid. So far the main underwhelming one is the Shokkjump Dragsta IMO, just because you have to be somewhat accurate with their low rate of fire.
Just tried the game as well, and ironically the SJD is my favorite, and I'm completely crushing the opposition with it. For an alpha, it's a very well done game.
You're clearly a better shot than I am then haha, you've got a grot's aim, I definitely match the BS5+ of Orks in game lol.
Also, more leaks on how terrain works in 10th, seems like it's pretty much the same for a lot of areas, and it's more about it being easier to obtain the +1 to save rather than -1 to hit for dense terrain which I believe is gone at this point. So Ghazzy being able to Kool-Aid man through walls is definitely a buff as infantry now.
Tomsug wrote: Exactly. This is nice funny discussion but we see abou 5% of the puzzel.
- we dont know the core rules ( say ahllo to engagement range and terrain rules)
- we dont know all the ork rules
- we dont know the point costs. For 100p it is a great Ghazkhul. For 700p it is a nonsence.
Honestly, meta is always somethin different than they show in the previous. Preview is about melee Ghazzy? So the most interesting will be Big Mek with buggies or something like that
Technically we do know the core rules, they are floating about on the net. Imgur has a copy if i recall.
But yeah, until we get those points rules this is all a bit abstract. Ghaz has a wonderful buff for his unit 1+ to hit and wound can turn a lotta damage. But what units can he go with? Meganobz confirmed, but can he let even choppa lads harm the average tank on a 4+?
Unless they get an invul Meganobz my be risky. That cabal ability to turn off armour saves is scarey.
I don't think it'll be as risky as you'd think, sure Tsons can turn off armour saves completely, no one else can (that we know of). A lot of the natural predators of meganobz have been dealt with, AP has dropped across the board that they essentially have an invuln due to their armour save. Power/chainfists are AP2 as are power/relic weapons. Thunderhammers lost a damage, assault doctrine is gone (as in the AP and the chapter specific benefits). Most of the time, things going their way will be AP2 unless you are doing AT weapons into them to dome a nob at a time. We don't have to contend with AP4 melee swings anymore, and a lot of guns either lost an AP or a damage. The only thing that's remained the same is melta weaponary, they've now pivoted from anti tank / everything, to anti elite, but will melta be that common anymore? Or plasma? Ranged weapons over all look balanced between each other representing a choice of what to pick instead of 1 clear best option.
Then if we do get neck snapped in melee by say, 10 scarab occult (which they probably will to make use of Kindred Sorceror on their force weapons, if they keep force weapons on the whole squad) we just fight on death and take them down with us. Other than the questions of squad sizes, cost, can they go in a transport with ghaz and if so how many are coming along for the ride, I'm not seeing an issue with meganob survivability this edition so far. Most of the time they will be getting a 3-4+ save vs what used to give a 6+ or no save.
Grimskul wrote: Just played the Alpha for Speed Freeks, it was actually surprisingly good! Obviously a bit barebones gameplay wise at the moment but the core gameplay is fun. I also like how they distinguished the different Ork rigs you can play as and how different combinations work well. Right now I'm a big fan of the Looted Tank and the Grot Mega Tank since they have the most dakka output, though the Deffkilla Wartrike is also quite solid. So far the main underwhelming one is the Shokkjump Dragsta IMO, just because you have to be somewhat accurate with their low rate of fire.
Just tried the game as well, and ironically the SJD is my favorite, and I'm completely crushing the opposition with it. For an alpha, it's a very well done game.
For me the Boomdakka Snazzwagon is the best and my favourite, the thing is probably overtuned because it shreds anything even at range. At peak times games are just full of it on either side. The Grot Mega Tank and Shokk Jump Dragsta look the weakest but once they add more game models and emphasize racing, the sheer speed of the SJD should push it up. The Kustom Boosta Blast is probably my second favourite but it just feels like a Walmart BDSW in every way.
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Afrodactyl wrote: So looking at the GK faction focus, I'm hopeful that Ghaz is actually going to take a substantial points cut. The Grandmaster in Dreadknight is faster, shootier, about as punchy, about as tough (when you consider Ghaz' 2++ through Makari) and gets cheap CP use.
Assuming the Grand Master stays at around the 200ish mark (after buying weapons), we could actually have a fairly cheap supreme leader if they're being pointed based on ability.
I think the Grandmaster will be cheaper than Ghaz by a country mile for some really serious reasons. He isnt a Leader or a Lone Operative and only has his statline and a teleport assault redeploys to keep him safe and as a vehicle he can be targeted in melee with shooting attacks from across the board. Hes also taken a hefty nerf when it comes to his damage output, dropping to BS and WS 3 across the board, loosing an attack on each melee profile (2 swings on the sweep which has also lost str, ap and damage). I reckon Ghaz is gonna be in the same ball park as he is now, with Makari baked in to the cost, 350-370 is where id put Ghaz.
I wouldnt call the DK faster or as punchy too. It has a 8" move and as far as we are aware no advance and charge or innate reroll, Orkz atleast get to once per game advance and charge and also pop the strat on a unit to launch them a further 4", that more than makes up for the extra 3" the grandmaster has and we dont even know how battlewagons will come into the equation, if they have assault ramps or can fit Ghaz and a reasonable amount of MANz. Ghaz is also slightly better in melee now from the get go with 6 attacks base instead of 5, 7 on the Waaagh instead of 6 with auto wounds on 6s to hit. During a Waaagh he also wounds every known toughness in the game on 2s at the trade of 2AP (does it matter when most things he fights has an invuln). On average Ghaz now kills a a T12 2+ save 16 wound unit to the exact wound or 20 wounds to a knight.
He is still a heavy weight in the same field as Abaddon, just without the calibre of army buffs that the warmaster provides. I cant see Ghaz being lower than 300 in 10th, he will always be with some form of bodyguard that he turns into absolute world beaters. The Grand Master is kinda weak overall unless hes fighting a monster or vehicle.
It'll be nice if Cover is easier to obtain, although I did enjoy using the -1 to hit terrain pieces to shield my units moving up field.
Afrodactyl wrote: So looking at the GK faction focus, I'm hopeful that Ghaz is actually going to take a substantial points cut. The Grandmaster in Dreadknight is faster, shootier, about as punchy, about as tough (when you consider Ghaz' 2++ through Makari) and gets cheap CP use.
Assuming the Grand Master stays at around the 200ish mark (after buying weapons), we could actually have a fairly cheap supreme leader if they're being pointed based on ability.
Well if Ghaz is that cheap I certainly hope the Warboss is significantly cheaper! Has there been any confirmation if there will be structure rules in the detachment where we are limited in the number of Warbosses we can bring?
Oh and the Speedfreekz game looks like a lot of fun!
Yeah, given what they did in 9th, I feel like they'll try costing things more at the start of the new edition so when they start releasing the codices and supplements, they can start slashing points or jumping up stats to promote changes in the units for when they do marketing in the new books. I don't really mind if they do this, but they better have learned from 9th and avoid any arbitrary base level points that make no sense, like the 5 point minimum that even applied to grots (until they caved and made them 4 ppm). I feel each time they have a chance to make the points more granular they don't go far enough.
The Red Hobbit wrote: It'll be nice if Cover is easier to obtain, although I did enjoy using the -1 to hit terrain pieces to shield my units moving up field.
Afrodactyl wrote: So looking at the GK faction focus, I'm hopeful that Ghaz is actually going to take a substantial points cut. The Grandmaster in Dreadknight is faster, shootier, about as punchy, about as tough (when you consider Ghaz' 2++ through Makari) and gets cheap CP use.
Assuming the Grand Master stays at around the 200ish mark (after buying weapons), we could actually have a fairly cheap supreme leader if they're being pointed based on ability.
Well if Ghaz is that cheap I certainly hope the Warboss is significantly cheaper! Has there been any confirmation if there will be structure rules in the detachment where we are limited in the number of Warbosses we can bring?
Oh and the Speedfreekz game looks like a lot of fun!
Looks like the only restriction is on the rule of 3, your points and on epic heroes. If you want 3 megabosses and 3 footbosses you can, if your feeling wild throw in 3 megameks too haha. You can have an army of nothing but characters, will be good? Nope haha.
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Grimskul wrote: Yeah, given what they did in 9th, I feel like they'll try costing things more at the start of the new edition so when they start releasing the codices and supplements, they can start slashing points or jumping up stats to promote changes in the units for when they do marketing in the new books. I don't really mind if they do this, but they better have learned from 9th and avoid any arbitrary base level points that make no sense, like the 5 point minimum that even applied to grots (until they caved and made them 4 ppm). I feel each time they have a chance to make the points more granular they don't go far enough.
I agree and I hope points have actually gone up overall (mainly for vehicles, monsters and characters). Somethings should never really got more expensive, like your Grot example and Boyz in my opinion (even if they get a 5+ save). I think everything has gotten too cheap at this stage of 9th and there isnt much granularity between units as they mainly all sit around the same price as each other. An Intercessor is 18pts yet a GK Strike Marine is 20pts who gets a gets a power weapons, deep strike and a psychic phase included in that 2pt package, they defo cant stay that much now they have a 2+ save in the mix too. Id love it if they further increase the gap between horde units, standard infantry (marines shouldnt be the standard) and elite infantry. I remember when you could get nearly 3 Boyz to a Marine and 2 Grots for a Boy, thats gone out of the window and some units just dont feel well represented number wise as they do in the lore and I get that with editions things change, but armies should still keep their core identity on the table top.
The Red Hobbit wrote: It'll be nice if Cover is easier to obtain, although I did enjoy using the -1 to hit terrain pieces to shield my units moving up field.
Afrodactyl wrote: So looking at the GK faction focus, I'm hopeful that Ghaz is actually going to take a substantial points cut. The Grandmaster in Dreadknight is faster, shootier, about as punchy, about as tough (when you consider Ghaz' 2++ through Makari) and gets cheap CP use.
Assuming the Grand Master stays at around the 200ish mark (after buying weapons), we could actually have a fairly cheap supreme leader if they're being pointed based on ability.
Well if Ghaz is that cheap I certainly hope the Warboss is significantly cheaper! Has there been any confirmation if there will be structure rules in the detachment where we are limited in the number of Warbosses we can bring?
Oh and the Speedfreekz game looks like a lot of fun!
Looks like the only restriction is on the rule of 3, your points and on epic heroes. If you want 3 megabosses and 3 footbosses you can, if your feeling wild throw in 3 megameks too haha. You can have an army of nothing but characters, will be good? Nope haha.
So you're saying I should covert two of my warbosses into bikers and sweep through with three warbosses on warbikes?
No fr I think hero hammer will be a big thing in 10th. If we were being honest with ourselves most of us would’ve been taking like 3 warbosses in all our games if we could in 9th, but now we can do that and they’ll be harder to kill in 10th.
My assumption that Ghaz would be getting cheaper is based on another assumption that the points scaling remaining roughly the same. I should have worded it better.
In terms of stats and abilities a GMDK looks more on par with Ghaz than he does Guilliman, and there's a 100ish point gap between those units.
Again, assuming that Bobby G stays around 300 points.
Regardless, it's all speculation amd we'll just have to wait and see. I just don't think we should currently be should be paying the same or more for Ghaz that Marines pay for a strictly better Guilliman.
Afrodactyl wrote: My assumption that Ghaz would be getting cheaper is based on another assumption that the points scaling remaining roughly the same. I should have worded it better.
In terms of stats and abilities a GMDK looks more on par with Ghaz than he does Guilliman, and there's a 100ish point gap between those units..
Is also survivability in par? One can be shot at freely even when in melee, other can't be targeted until surrounding unit dead and then has 2++ while it lasts.
Afrodactyl wrote: My assumption that Ghaz would be getting cheaper is based on another assumption that the points scaling remaining roughly the same. I should have worded it better.
In terms of stats and abilities a GMDK looks more on par with Ghaz than he does Guilliman, and there's a 100ish point gap between those units.
Again, assuming that Bobby G stays around 300 points.
Regardless, it's all speculation amd we'll just have to wait and see. I just don't think we should currently be should be paying the same or more for Ghaz that Marines pay for a strictly better Guilliman.
If things can get cheaper, then it's safe to assume things will get more expensive too. Primarchs no matter who they are should be below 400pts (just like in heresy) and we shouldn't be in a world where Angron is a mere 30pts more than a Gorkanaut. Its more likely that primarchs will increase in cost than Ghaz going down, because he really shouldn't be sub 300 now that makari is baked into his cost.
Whilst primarchs aren't as tough or as impactful as they are in 30k they are still the demigods of the setting and should be priced to reflect that. If roboute stays around 300 then that's just silly, whilst once apon a time Ghaz and Abbadon were like 220-250pts back in 5th till 7th they have far outgrown their old statlines whilst most infantry haven't.
The grandmaster looks more on par with a Redemptor Dreadnought than Ghaz, he has no sneaky defenses or army buffing and has to live and die purely off of his datasheet. Ghaz and Abbie will forever be blessed by their bodyguard protection which is worth a good sum of points in itself.
I'm not sure about that. Mortarion, Magnus and Angron might be in the same weight class, but I see no way to make a purely offensive melee primarch cost the same as someone who can soak an entire army's worth of shooting or a force multiplier like Magnus.
At some point it just doesn't matter whether Thrakka, Abaddon or Angron hits your average unit in melee. It will be dead no matter what, all those extra attacks, AP and damage isn't really worth that much beyond a certain point. If you have face the Lion yet, you'll get what I mean. His pure statline is no more threatening than Azreal's is.
Jidmah wrote: I'm not sure about that. Mortarion, Magnus and Angron might be in the same weight class, but I see no way to make a purely offensive melee primarch cost the same as someone who can soak an entire army's worth of shooting or a force multiplier like Magnus.
At some point it just doesn't matter whether Thrakka, Abaddon or Angron hits your average unit in melee. It will be dead no matter what, all those extra attacks, AP and damage isn't really worth that much beyond a certain point. If you have face the Lion yet, you'll get what I mean. His pure statline is no more threatening than Azreal's is.
Well, Thrakka is missing something that a lot of them are getting now, which is a sweep profile. So not only does his smash profile have less attacks, he doesn't have the ability to, say, swing 12-14 times against chaff.
There still is the chance that Ghaz can join other units (beast snaggas with that unit buff would be dope), and in 5th we already had Ghaz riding a wagon by himself as a tournament-viable strategy, and with his trusty shadowfield banner carrier it might be again. It really heavily depends on his points. I can see that profile being as cheap as 200 points now.
Not trying to be doom and gloom, but I highly doubt ghaz will get a meaningful (enough) points cut to justify his existence in competitive lists in 10th, at least until we get our codex. Historically, GW drastically over-estimates how good buffs/changes are too Orkz and drastically under-estimates how bad nerfs will be. Squigbuggy as a great example, "Oops we gave Orkz a decent shooting unit, hit it with a points increase, model limitation and eventually a nerf to its primary weapons".
Makari getting baked in is kind of nice, as is the ability to hide him in a unit of bodyguards, but I just doubt he'll be that cheap. Too many "playtesters" used by GW still have conniption fits anytime orkz get anything remotely competitive *Queue the video of the guy ranting about Mozrog Skragbad* (*NOTE* Still want to find a copy of that video, it was so fething funny!)
Jidmah wrote: All of the relevant ork shooting we have seen so far pretty much stayed the same, while almost everyone but knights got medium to big nerfs to it. We've also seen the mek and the firing deck buff to battlewagons, and the 5++ part of the Waaagh! is very useful to both speedwaaaghs and dread mobs even now. It's a free KFF for our whole army - which was a mandatory part of any vehicle lists all the way back to 4th. And let's not forget that all or vehicle will be jumping up to at least T8/T9 on top of that.
Like every edition before, I feel like what will make or breake ork shooting is the profile of the rokkit. It's just that important to orks.
In fairness though, Ork shooting has been functionally irrelevant for most of this edition. Borderline army wide -1 to hit for multiple armies meant that our 5+ to hit shooting and 4+ in rare instances was basically never hitting. I played multiple games where my shooting phase boiled down to a handful of rolls and me saying "not worth the time it takes to roll the dice". At the GT level, a lot of us actually chose not to roll in the shooting phase for most units because the time taken to make those rolls wasn't worth the dmg it would do.
With all of that in mind, nerfing armies whose entire gimmick was shooting would be more inline with nerfing our close combat....and we have had a drastic nerf to our close combat in both our specific rules and game wide rules we have seen. I hope this means we get to go back to a two pronged army where we can take healthy amounts of dakka and choppa.
Egh that +1 movement while nice doesn’t make most charges successful.. orks try to pack most of thier army into a single turn waaagh charge.. this usually means we are using kommandos with thier set 9in deepstrike, manz in trukks, dreads in tellyporta, warbikers, beastboys in killrigs, stormboys, and da jumped boys…while that 1in movement on boys is nice it doesn’t help all those 9in charges units orks relied on for reliable charges… we will have substantially less successful charges without the reroll. And while the +2 strat is nice it’s a movement phase only strat used preemptively usable only once a turn to increase reliability on 1 unit it doesn’t help when you fail a charge.
Keep in mind that was the 9th edition meta and not necessarily what the 10th edition meta will be. 8th edition had us running around at the end with green tide lists, 9th had us running buggies and alpha strikes. 10th might be completely different (I hope it is). As I pointed out with Jidmah, our CC ability has been weakened considerably while our Dakka hasn't been hit ...you could argue it might even have been buffed (we will see).
I hope the runtherds are optional. I have no interest in having any more orks in my gretchin based force than minimally necessary.
Kitbash my friend! Grab those extra grot prods and squig hounds and model some grots to be your "runtherdz" nowhere in the rules does it say you can't make grots into kitbashed runtherdz
Afrodactyl wrote: My assumption that Ghaz would be getting cheaper is based on another assumption that the points scaling remaining roughly the same. I should have worded it better.
In terms of stats and abilities a GMDK looks more on par with Ghaz than he does Guilliman, and there's a 100ish point gap between those units.
Again, assuming that Bobby G stays around 300 points.
Regardless, it's all speculation amd we'll just have to wait and see. I just don't think we should currently be should be paying the same or more for Ghaz that Marines pay for a strictly better Guilliman.
would it be right for us to pay a similar price for ghaz as Marines pay for Girlyman? No, has it happened multiple times in the past (At least of similar units/models) yes. I wouldn't put it past GW to just lazily bang out these Codices and leave horrendous imbalance and ridiculously easy to spot broken combos. Look at 8th edition Codices and the Girlyman gunline?
I'm not seeing anything about assault vehicle equivalent for transports, whereas the Mek+firing port rule seems rather nice, that to me seems like the clear avenue.
It makes Lootas look a lot more interesting, even mek/Big Mek relics look more interesting, not to mention tankbustas, even if they get a statline nerf to rokkits.
Then, Flash Gits. +1 BS to everyone in a transport from putting a low cost mek in it is appealing at first glance.
Not being able to assault out of a vehicle would be annoying.
I'm also not seeing anything about -1 to hit. If that happens to be absent or less common, I would tend in that direction.
Even Gorkanauts/Morkanauts and Big Trakks have transport capacity, you could at the very least run the math on having a mek in each one to see if it's cost effective for the transport.
Plus, Big Meks can serve a dual purpose of being useful in combat, and can join units.
Maybe combat will be less interesting/necessary overall, or preferable to avoid.
You could even explore the option of, who knows, actually justifying putting rokkits/big shootas/lobbas on a transport. 22 firing port with whatever you can fit inside + whatever weapons you can tack on the vehicle is a lot of efficiency for a +1 BS mod.
Lootas will be a interesting, they're a favorite unit of mine but frequently underperform each edition. Looks like the choice will be to let them sit on a backfield objective and get a +1 Heavy bonus or stick them in a transport. I am thinking Burnaboyz might be the better call for battlewagons / bonebreakas. All depends on the points though.
TedNugent wrote: I'm not seeing anything about assault vehicle equivalent for transports, whereas the Mek+firing port rule seems rather nice, that to me seems like the clear avenue.
Land raider has special rule contents can charge after move+disembark.
Reqular transports if you disembarked after move no charge.
TedNugent wrote: I'm not seeing anything about assault vehicle equivalent for transports, whereas the Mek+firing port rule seems rather nice, that to me seems like the clear avenue.
There is nothing to see yet. However, in any edition when charging out of a Landraider was possible, it was also possible to charge out of trukks and battlewagons unless they were 'ard cased. Which would rule out gunwagons and, oddly, bonebreakas.
I'm also not seeing anything about -1 to hit. If that happens to be absent or less common, I would tend in that direction.
-1 to hit is called "stealth" in most cases, which makes it impossible to stack, but it's still around.
Even Gorkanauts/Morkanauts and Big Trakks have transport capacity, you could at the very least run the math on having a mek in each one to see if it's cost effective for the transport.
There is nothing to see yet. However, in any edition when charging out of a Landraider was possible, it was also possible to charge out of trukks and battlewagons unless they were 'ard cased. Which would rule out gunwagons and, oddly, bonebreakas.
I won't bet on an assault ramp until I see it. Landraiders had the distinction of a specific rule called assault vehicle, whereas Trukk's and Battlewagons relied on the open topped USR. If there's nothing in core rules, they will need an explicit assault ramp rule, which I didn't see anything in the leaked USRs for that or open-topped. The firing port rule appears to be replacing open-topped for purposes of shooting out of the transport.
-1 to hit is called "stealth" in most cases, which makes it impossible to stack, but it's still around.
In which case +1 to hit still seems like the obvious choice, since 5+ is still double the hits versus 6+.
Nauts probably won't have firing deck.
Of course, but it will still be interesting seeing how the math works out on +1 to hit on the Naut weapons versus the cost of the Mek, who already has the repair ability going for it.
In regards to trukks we did see the rules for venoms today who usually had similar rules being opened topped and all. They got a special rule letting units embark at the end of the fight phase.
I don't think we'll get that, but it does imply GW may give unit specific rules to transports to make them unique. Maybe trukks will get a final move before they die or disembark and assault.
Automatically Appended Next Post: a small detail that i was discussing with a mate, is that by the rules, only models in base contact with the models in first line can fight.
I am still reading, but being true this is a nerf to melee. Fights will be harder to manage with lot of models.
Yeah, it would be nice if this meant the return of some of the old school vehicle upgrades in some way, like the boarding plank giving us the assault vehicle style rule for trukks and some equivalent for the battlewagon. Especially since with the changes to vehicle toughness we don't know if things like 'Ard Case is just going to give +1T or if it'll do things like give us a 2+ save or something more meaningful in terms of a defensive profile. Gork knows that the wreckin ball and grabbin klaw have been pointless upgrades for a while, would be nice for them to be worth taking for once.
The Red Hobbit wrote: I would be over the moon if wreckin ball and grabbin klaw became useful.
Even something like the reinforced ram/deff rolla giving some type of bonus to the roll for mortals or amount of mortals during tank shocks would be nice. The grabbin klaw having some sort of rules on being anti-vehicle or monster where it acts as an extra attack weapon where if it hits it prevents that vehicle or monster from falling back or making them suffer a desperate escape roll if they try to fall back. While the wrecking ball can either just have good stats as an extra attack weapon or it causes D3 mortal wounds or something on a successful charge to represent it being wound up before hitting home.
For a race of eccentric looters and ramshackle builders, it's a crime that we have less meaningful options for vehicle upgrades than most factions.
I started using the Deff Rolla in 7th so I can't complain because every edition since then it has gotten remarkably more fun and useful.
The grabbin klaw idea sounds fun and would work well with the new rules they previewed. I suspect we'll see better WS on vehicles so the wrecking ball might be worthwhile. One can hope at least.
Automatically Appended Next Post: a small detail that i was discussing with a mate, is that by the rules, only models in base contact with the models in first line can fight.
I am still reading, but being true this is a nerf to melee. Fights will be harder to manage with lot of models.
No. You can fight if you are in engagement range(1", 5" horizontally) OR you are in b2b with model that is b2b with enemy.
First rank can always fight if they are within 1". Only once you want 2nd rank you need to worrry about b2B
Automatically Appended Next Post: a small detail that i was discussing with a mate, is that by the rules, only models in base contact with the models in first line can fight.
I am still reading, but being true this is a nerf to melee. Fights will be harder to manage with lot of models.
Jidmah! I wanted to go out and have a ride on a moto!
- coherency “2models” trigger at 7 models.
- morale is very different and IMHO very dangerous
— 1 model units are affected (morale test under hlaf of the wounds)
— every unit have to pass morale test if Below Half Strength every turn regardless of lost any models this turn or not.
— pass morale = 2D6 MORE OR EQUAL to your Morale to PASS! = lower morale is better. No modification regarding the number of the lost models!
— if Battleshock, does not lost another models, but is crippled - cannot hold objective, cannot be the target of any strategem,
— if Fallback, than D6 => 1-2 = one model is destroied
Movement
- you can move over friendly units except VEH and MON cannot move over VEH or MON.
- pivoting for free!! No part move more than M of course…
- you can fallback over enemy models
- transports
— you can disembark after transport moved. This unit count as moved and cannot move and charge, but can shoot etc.
— you cannot disembark from the tansport that advanced or fallback
— shooting platform
— disembark after Transport destroyed = D6 => 1 = 1 MW. All such disembarked units count as Battleshocked
—- Emergency Disembark is 1MW for 1-3 on D6 and still 6” but it is for free. Not a strategem.
Shooting
- VEH and MON can be selected as a targets for shooting even if they are in Engagement Range (except from the unit they are in ER with)
- CHAR will be in connection with their Bodyguard units. If not “Look Out Sir” is simple “lone operatives cannot be shot if more than 12”
Resolving attacks
- hit = 1 always fail
- hit = 6 always hit (critical hit)
- no more than +/-1 to hit modifiers
- wound rolls the same mechanic as the hit rolls
- save always fails on 1 and no modifications more than +1
- bunch of weaoon keywords such as Lance, Melta etc. with standard rules
- blast = add 1 to number of shots for every 5 models in target
- indirect the same as now
- heavy weapons remain stationary = +1 to hit
- DEVASTATING = critical wounds (wound rolls of 6) = MWs instead of normal Ws - SUSTAINED HITS = critical hits (=6s) = another hits regarding the parametr.
CHARGING
- little different wording how to move but as I understand it, if you charge and you can move your models to engagement range, you have to. Please check!
- it seems to me that FLY unit can move over terrain and other units in charge!
FIGHT
- pile 3” and if I understand it right, you must move to B2B if you are able to??
- B2B is the key to fight with more models
- consolidation is pretty complicated. You can consolidate only if you can end it in Engagement range or On Objective Marker. If you can end your Cons move in Engagement range, you must do it so?
Aura = strictly only AURA marked abilities
Default strategems - honestly, pretty useful bunch of strategems!
HI is a strategem now.
Oberwatch is 24” also againts the units that just move!
Strategic reserves NO MORE THAN 25%
TERRAIN
- no benefit of cover againts AP 0 if Sv 3+ and better
- all terrains works pretty mach strightforward = if your unit is not fully visible, you got +1 to sv = benefit of cover = NO -1 TO HIT FROM WOODS!
Building the army is as simple as promissed.
- 1 CHAR at least
- max 3 of one datasheet (6 if BATTLELINE or DEDICATED TRANSPORT)
- there must be a unit in transports on the beginning of the game
Tomsug wrote: Jidmah! I wanted to go out and have a ride on a moto!
FIGHT
- pile 3” and if I understand it right, you must move to B2B if you are able to??
- B2B is the key to fight with more models
- consolidation is pretty complicated. You can consolidate only if you can end it in Engagement range or On Objective Marker. If you can end your Cons move in Engagement range, you must do it so?
—- that is it. Have I missed something? —-
- pile 3” and if I understand it right, you must move to B2B if you are able to?? > it mentions the unit must end in base contact, not the model, thought the same until i read it several times, it's same as now, just really awful wording. Also you missed fly keyword being a diagonal movement through ruins so nerf on that keyword...but i am still reading. Also in terrain beast and infantry move unopposed, some one mentioned that swarms are now infantry.
Also towering ignores obscuring. No hiding from knights or aircraft, same deal the other way around you can always see them. Not a fan of this one.
Automatically Appended Next Post: a small detail that i was discussing with a mate, is that by the rules, only models in base contact with the models in first line can fight.
I am still reading, but being true this is a nerf to melee. Fights will be harder to manage with lot of models.
One of the named Inquisitors, Greyfax, had their rules previewed today and the No Escape rule she has seems is worded exactly the way I want the Grabbin Klaw to work, so fingers crossed we have that in some capacity in our codex.
… all these useless parts I skipped on my wagons and trukks and use them for conversion pourposes on something else….
And not only me…
I don't know what you are talking about, I still have my four fully modular battlewagons from 5th. I even have extra turrets so I can have a killkannon and a kannon at the same time...
I probably should sell my fourth battlewagon. The last time I ran it, it was during my last game of 7th, right before quitting the game. I faced tournament-grade eldar in that game and was tabled before moving.
I have a bought battlewagon off ebay that has a permanent klaw stuck to it. Ive been meaning to rip it off even though it was glued on, but i wanted to wait till 10th edition to see if it made sense to do so.
For the most part when ive used it in games and what not, ive simply played it as without having a klaw.
It's not like a non-ork player can tell it apart from a random gubbin with no actual functionality. And an actual ork player won't snitch on you for having an extra klaw.
Cause if you liked it you should have put a klaw on it
If you liked it you shoulda put a klaw on it
Don't be mad once you see the mek want it
If you liked it then you shoulda put a klaw on it
I guess we'll have to see the points to see if it'll be worth taking, but it's nice to see a pretty decent attack profile and options for the Big Boy Squiggoth. Interesting to note that the Supa Kannon and the regular Kannon both don't have the Heavy keyword, so that might be a reflection on some of the weapons Orks have on vehicles at the moment to not have those either unfortunately. I guess the good thing is that the Supa-Kannon is S12 base, so I hope that means our Killkannon is at least in the S10 range if not the same.
Also, interesting to note that Ghazzy, despite being able to join units now, still takes up 18 slots in transport space still, which means you're basically stuck throwing him on foot if you want him with a bodyguard unit.
Jidmah wrote: It's not like a non-ork player can tell it apart from a random gubbin with no actual functionality. And an actual ork player won't snitch on you for having an extra klaw.
If you like the look, just keep it.
the fact its glued on and is sticking out to the side makes it hard to place near ruins on its right side. So its actually out of functionality and annoyance that i want to snap it off. If it didnt make it difficult to place on the left side of ruins, id just keep it on
The fact ghaz is still 18 model size transport capacity means you will never put him in a transport as you can’t attach him to a unit as well. Meaning he is almost as slow as 9th edition which was his biggest issue. I mean feel free to attach a full squad or meganobs to him and walk them across the board but that’s a lot of points with a huge shoot me target on their back…
Yeah, if we don't have the tellyporta strat, Ghaz might be DoA. I can only really see him and his ladz deepstriking in via rapid ingress to make sure you can be in an optimal spot to go for a major objective or key enemy unit piece.
Jidmah wrote: Considering all the silly interactions of Thrakka and Makari being one unit, I'd totally throw him in a BW by himself if he is cheap enough.
I guess the main benefit of him being in a vehicle is that even if it's wrecked, him and Makari can only take 1 MW each if you roll snake eyes for the occupants, which is a lot better than now where a 1 removes him entirely as a casaulty.
I think 10th is going to be the edition of meme lists for me.
I really like the Gargantuan Squiggoth datasheet and I now want to just run a swarm of squigs led by a Freeboota Warboss and his Flash Git retinue on Squiggoth-back
gungo wrote: The fact ghaz is still 18 model size transport capacity means you will never put him in a transport as you can’t attach him to a unit as well. Meaning he is almost as slow as 9th edition which was his biggest issue. I mean feel free to attach a full squad or meganobs to him and walk them across the board but that’s a lot of points with a huge shoot me target on their back…
ya not gonna lie seeing ghaz still take up that many slots was a bit heart wrenching. I’d be shocked if he’s any cheaper in points so probably would only want to run him when he can give his buff and if that whole unit has to foot slog 5” up the table it’s just not gonna be worth it. Hopefully will have some sort of tellyporta strat but not holding my breath. 😥
On a funny note. I thought damage 10 attack from a stompa would the highest damage we have, but apparently the gargantuan squiggoth gives damage 12 attacks
AND it finally has a sweep. Good riddance. Its still a massive slab to move around and its way too long for its own good, but at least it has a sweep profile..
in other ork chats im seeing a lot of people complaining the Squiggoth got mega nerfed because A) no Howdah rule and B) lost the charge damage.
Assuming GW doesnt price it to hell (always a fear), i think it got buffed.
Firing Deck is basically Howdah, as the transport counts as owning the occupant gun. Lost the always stationary thing, but that seems to be across the board loss. So in a sense we didnt lose Howdah.
Yeah it lost the charge damage but heres the thing...D6 mortals, or more than twice as deadly melee? i'll take the 12 flat damage melee thank you lol
Afrodactyl wrote: I think 10th is going to be the edition of meme lists for me.
I really like the Gargantuan Squiggoth datasheet and I now want to just run a swarm of squigs led by a Freeboota Warboss and his Flash Git retinue on Squiggoth-back
That sounds like a really gun game to play against. Although Giant Squiggoth is FW so it might get sent to Legends like a lot of other things did.
I really hope that's just yet another typical FW copy-paste situation. Verbatim is exactly 9th ed.
With current Ghazs rules doesn't make any sense. A monster occupying 18 slots, fine. A warboss with r6 occupying as much as 9 MANZ, not good.
Afrodactyl wrote: I think 10th is going to be the edition of meme lists for me.
I really like the Gargantuan Squiggoth datasheet and I now want to just run a swarm of squigs led by a Freeboota Warboss and his Flash Git retinue on Squiggoth-back
That sounds like a really gun game to play against. Although Giant Squiggoth is FW so it might get sent to Legends like a lot of other things did.
I'm hopeful that as they've shown a datasheet as part of their reveal for 10th that they won't be axing the Squiggoth. It's not beyond GW to do something like that, but I think they'd be dropping the ball off they showed them off and then got rid of them.
Vineheart01 wrote: in other ork chats im seeing a lot of people complaining the Squiggoth got mega nerfed because A) no Howdah rule and B) lost the charge damage.
Assuming GW doesnt price it to hell (always a fear), i think it got buffed.
Firing Deck is basically Howdah, as the transport counts as owning the occupant gun. Lost the always stationary thing, but that seems to be across the board loss. So in a sense we didnt lose Howdah.
Yeah it lost the charge damage but heres the thing...D6 mortals, or more than twice as deadly melee? i'll take the 12 flat damage melee thank you lol
Also, its T13. Thats nothing to scoff at.
Indeed. who gives a feth about D6 mortal wounds on a +2 when you actually have a freaking sweep profile worth of 18 attacks dealing flat 3 damage. This thing eats terminators for breakfast. The damage output is significantly magnified compared to before, in a game where damage profiles seem to otherwise go down.
Also yea it lost the whole stationary thing but we dont get minus to hit when shooting heavy weapons anyway. Im unsure how the firing deck works though. Im assuming given that the vehicle/Monster is the one shooting now, it still means you cant shoot out of combat? Compared to the fact you could shoot out of melee combat with the howdah rule before.
So maybe there is a nerf there. But over all i dont see this thing being really nerfed. Its biggest issue was that it was massive, had no invul and had no sweep profile. 10 guardsmen could literally block it and you would never kill them all unless the rest ran to morale.
Now nothing can stop this thing with a sweep profile, and damage flat 12 attacks will also remove anything large in front of it. It lost 6 wounds but thats fine, it still has no invul so we have to see how KFF big meks work. Over all i dont think i wanna call this thing nerfed.
Afrodactyl wrote: I think 10th is going to be the edition of meme lists for me.
I really like the Gargantuan Squiggoth datasheet and I now want to just run a swarm of squigs led by a Freeboota Warboss and his Flash Git retinue on Squiggoth-back
That sounds like a really gun game to play against. Although Giant Squiggoth is FW so it might get sent to Legends like a lot of other things did.
They clearly consider the squiggoth to be a titan-level model, and all current communication points to FW essentially becoming a titan-only thing for 40k.
Afrodactyl wrote: I think 10th is going to be the edition of meme lists for me.
I really like the Gargantuan Squiggoth datasheet and I now want to just run a swarm of squigs led by a Freeboota Warboss and his Flash Git retinue on Squiggoth-back
That sounds like a really gun game to play against. Although Giant Squiggoth is FW so it might get sent to Legends like a lot of other things did.
I'm hopeful that as they've shown a datasheet as part of their reveal for 10th that they won't be axing the Squiggoth. It's not beyond GW to do something like that, but I think they'd be dropping the ball off they showed them off and then got rid of them.
Yeah it will certainly be in indexhammer and probably stick around for the codex but who knows if it will stick around for 11th ed which adds uncertainty to anyone considering buying one, especially at FW Prices. Even the Kromlech squiggoth isn't much cheaper. Shame cause it looks like a really fun unit to run (if costed appropriately).
wait what? im reading the core rules now and it says you are in engagement range when you are within 1" of an enemy model. I thought they previously said you had to base contact?
Afrodactyl wrote: Who knows, GW might surprise us and start making the Titans and equivalents in plastic as a made-to-order type thing. A Git can dream
No offense intended what so ever I just have a hard time understanding why someone want a model the size of a kid in a minature war game?
Is it just a modeling thing like Big stompy robot? The idea of transporting then moving that huge cumbersome thing around just sounds troublesome.
Is it to see your opponents face when you pull out somthing large enough to beat him to death and set it on the table a cross from him(actually this does sound pretty funny).
Well. Warhammer, while being an actual game is also a miniature hobby. Many people just have large models for the sake of it. Most that even own the gargantuan squiggoth dont play with them, and if they do, not very often.
I have a gargantuan squiggoth, not because i assumed it would rock anyones world, but because it was awesome looking, and i fell in love with it, when i saw it for the first time during Dawn of war 1. I have used it maybe 2 times during the entirety of 9th.
So yea when you pull out a big large stompy model that usually never sees play, you know you're in for a fun game.
Afrodactyl wrote: Who knows, GW might surprise us and start making the Titans and equivalents in plastic as a made-to-order type thing. A Git can dream
No offense intended what so ever I just have a hard time understanding why someone want a model the size of a kid in a minature war game?
Is it just a modeling thing like Big stompy robot? The idea of transporting then moving that huge cumbersome thing around just sounds troublesome.
Is it to see your opponents face when you pull out somthing large enough to beat him to death and set it on the table a cross from him(actually this does sound pretty funny).
Just curious.
I'd never take it anywhere, as you said it would be a huge pain to transport. It would only ever see use in a display board or games at my house.
For me it's more that I get to make dinosaur noises while stomping it around the board and be silly the entire time. The childlike glee in getting to play with a giant monster figure.
And as others have said, when the giant model comes out everyone knows you're not taking yourself too seriously and you're just in it for a good time.
The gargantuan squiggoth model is pretty much indestructible anyways, the worst thing that could happen when transporting it is having it crush other models.
I'm with Beardedragon though, I got it because I liked the model, and I only ever play it for silly games for narrative reasons. It has not place in competitive play.
The Red Hobbit wrote: They mentioned in a preview but I believe they misspoke. It should be 1st rank is within 1" while second rank is base to base contact with 1st rank.
Base to base contact with the first rank is a whole can of worms considering there is no official base sizing.
Why go for i believe's when we can check what rules say.
When a unit makes its melee attacks, only models in that unit
that are either within Engagement Range of an enemy unit, or
in base-to-base contact with another model from their own
unit that is itself in base-to-base contact with an enemy unit,
can fight.
So if first rank is within 1" but not in b2b only 1st rank fights. 2nd rank can't attack.
If 1st rank is b2b it attacks and 2nd rank b2b with 1st rank fights.
Afrodactyl wrote: Who knows, GW might surprise us and start making the Titans and equivalents in plastic as a made-to-order type thing. A Git can dream
No offense intended what so ever I just have a hard time understanding why someone want a model the size of a kid in a minature war game?
My Warhound is hardly the size of a child.
Because sometimes you want to play a game with the really big stuff involved.
The WOW factor. Because having them on the table draws the attention of other people (especially those who don't already play the game) at the shop/convention/gaming event.
Beardedragon wrote: wait what? im reading the core rules now and it says you are in engagement range when you are within 1" of an enemy model. I thought they previously said you had to base contact?
Now the second row of dudes have to be in base with your models that are in engagement though so less dudes will attack outside of your engagement range models.
Also is anyone else getting slightly concerned at the sheer amount of things that have devastating wounds so far? That Eldar D cannon is…kinda good 😅
I am a little wary over the amount of mortal wounds that seem to be prevalent across certain units and armies, since I thought was part of the problem from last edition was that mortal wounds were too common place alongside high damage, high AP weaponry. We haven't seen points costs yet so hopefully they come at some sort of premium.
I just kind of wanted to mention that marines seem to have 3 attacks base, 4 attacks with a chainsword. That goes for standard CSM legionaries, Intercessors.
Beast snaggas have 2 attacks base, 3 attacks with a choppa.
The old ork advantage in close combat appears to have gone by the wayside.
I kind of wonder how effective these units are really going to be.
Afrodactyl wrote: Who knows, GW might surprise us and start making the Titans and equivalents in plastic as a made-to-order type thing. A Git can dream
No offense intended what so ever I just have a hard time understanding why someone want a model the size of a kid in a minature war game?
My Warhound is hardly the size of a child.
Because sometimes you want to play a game with the really big stuff involved.
The WOW factor. Because having them on the table draws the attention of other people (especially those who don't already play the game) at the shop/convention/gaming event.
Of course warhound and titans is basically automatic loss.
Problem with that big models is they break scale too bad. Either it's autoloss or it's silly cheap causing balance problems of it's own invalidating certain armies(like knights) as it needs to be silly point efficient to stand a chance.
Warhound mto is doa though. It would cost so much gw wants to sell them hard. Expect rather 700pts with silly firepower to make sure gw sells enough.
TedNugent wrote: I just kind of wanted to mention that marines seem to have 3 attacks base, 4 attacks with a chainsword. That goes for standard CSM legionaries, Intercessors.
Beast snaggas have 2 attacks base, 3 attacks with a choppa.
The old ork advantage in close combat appears to have gone by the wayside.
I kind of wonder how effective these units are really going to be.
Not that I like it, but it has been that way for all of 9th?
TedNugent wrote: I just kind of wanted to mention that marines seem to have 3 attacks base, 4 attacks with a chainsword. That goes for standard CSM legionaries, Intercessors.
Beast snaggas have 2 attacks base, 3 attacks with a choppa.
The old ork advantage in close combat appears to have gone by the wayside.
I kind of wonder how effective these units are really going to be.
Not that I like it, but it has been that way for all of 9th?
Intercessors are 2 Attacks base, +1 on the charge/getting charged, +1 if they have a Chainsword.
Grimskul wrote: I am a little wary over the amount of mortal wounds that seem to be prevalent across certain units and armies, since I thought was part of the problem from last edition was that mortal wounds were too common place alongside high damage, high AP weaponry. We haven't seen points costs yet so hopefully they come at some sort of premium.
I think the big difference between 9th and 10th in that regard is that outside of some special cases (Typhus' destroyer hive or haywire weapons, for example) you cannot reliably cause mortal wounds. Devastating Wounds is the most common way to cause Mortal wounds outside of deadly demise and that usually requires you to roll sixes. The statistics on that are very swingy, so while assault terminators with TH might evaporate a whole unit of MANz if they roll a lot of sixes, they might as well roll none at all and bounce of their 4+ armor save. Using those kind of weaons to fish for MWs is high risk, high reward which isn't always the best play to do, especially if you are trying to trade with a unit.
I mean, Primaris have got 3 attacks with a close combat weapon now, 4 with a chainsword, so it's regardless of charging/first turn of combat. That's just the flat out unmodified number of attacks.
It's kind of strange to say this, but orks don't really have that many attacks any more.
JNAProductions wrote: Intercessors are 2 Attacks base, +1 on the charge/getting charged, +1 if they have a Chainsword.
So, how often did you fight marines with orks for longer than one turn?
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TedNugent wrote: I mean, Primaris have got 3 attacks with a close combat weapon now, 4 with a chainsword, so it's regardless of charging/first turn of combat. That's just the flat out unmodified number of attacks.
It's kind of strange to say this, but orks don't really have that many attacks any more.
True, but my point was that this has been the case for a long time now. The difference between shock assault and an unconditional +1A is marginal at best.
JNAProductions wrote: Intercessors are 2 Attacks base, +1 on the charge/getting charged, +1 if they have a Chainsword.
So, how often did you fight marines with orks for longer than one turn?
The question I kind of had is, uh....what if they charge you. They can actually do an unfriendly amount of damage in close combat, especially if it's a marine unit that is in any way geared for close combat.
For example, sword brethren are walking around with 5 chainsword attacks. I feel like that would kinda vaporize many units of orks.
JNAProductions wrote: Intercessors are 2 Attacks base, +1 on the charge/getting charged, +1 if they have a Chainsword.
So, how often did you fight marines with orks for longer than one turn?
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TedNugent wrote: I mean, Primaris have got 3 attacks with a close combat weapon now, 4 with a chainsword, so it's regardless of charging/first turn of combat. That's just the flat out unmodified number of attacks.
It's kind of strange to say this, but orks don't really have that many attacks any more.
True, but my point was that this has been the case for a long time now. The difference between shock assault and an unconditional +1A is marginal at best.
I think the main difference is that a Tactical or an ordinary Intercessor doesn't have AP on their attacks.
Sergeants and Assault Intercessors will, and against Orks or other lightly armored models the difference between AP0 and AP-1 is minimal, but against hardier targets that point of AP helps a lot.
JNAProductions wrote: Intercessors are 2 Attacks base, +1 on the charge/getting charged, +1 if they have a Chainsword.
So, how often did you fight marines with orks for longer than one turn?
The question I kind of had is, uh....what if they charge you. They can actually do an unfriendly amount of damage in close combat, especially if it's a marine unit that is in any way geared for close combat.
For example, sword brethren are walking around with 5 chainsword attacks. I feel like that would kinda vaporize many units of orks.
Sword Brethren look pretty nuts, given they can add +1 Damage to all their attacks.
The fact that, against W1 models, they can change that to a bonus attack is just the cherry on top.
TedNugent wrote: For example, sword brethren are walking around with 5 chainsword attacks. I feel like that would kinda vaporize many units of orks.
Sorry, but did you not play against Templars in 9th? They have 5 attacks *right now*. 3 attacks base, +1 attack from Accept Any Challenge, No Matter the Odds or Shock Assault, +1 extra attack from the astartes chainsword. That's five attacks at S4 with AP-2.
You are about two years late to complain about that now.
Also, feels weird to be salty about Sword Brethren, when they're the special elite unit for BT specifically. Given how poopy they were compared to bladeguard vets in 9th, I'd say it's about damn time they finally have the offensive stats at the very least compared to how bad they were offensively and defensively compared to bladeguard vets baseline.
Just be glad our choppas kept the AP-1, the bigger question is if shootas will be relevant at all this edition. (sadly I doubt it).
The one thing I learned from DG reveals (units almost fully known by now) is
1) GW put some pretty insane buffs on characters. Orks have lots of characters
2) Units will most likely be boring
3) pretty much anything can happen. Daemon Princes, Death Shrouds and MBH got insane abilities out of nowhere. Had they previewed those, DG players would have been singing GW's praises instead of what's going on right now.
Afrodactyl wrote: Who knows, GW might surprise us and start making the Titans and equivalents in plastic as a made-to-order type thing. A Git can dream
No offense intended what so ever I just have a hard time understanding why someone want a model the size of a kid in a minature war game?
My Warhound is hardly the size of a child.
Because sometimes you want to play a game with the really big stuff involved.
The WOW factor. Because having them on the table draws the attention of other people (especially those who don't already play the game) at the shop/convention/gaming event.
Of course warhound and titans is basically automatic loss.
Depends upon the type/size of game you play.
The last game my WH was in was a huge 5k pt per player, multiple players per side affair. I wouldn't say this was it's most glorious outing, but it did alright.
Most of us had some similar large unit + a fair amount of other stuff.
Nobody auto-lost because they'd brought a Titan or such.
Grimskul wrote: Also, feels weird to be salty about Sword Brethren, when they're the special elite unit for BT specifically. Given how poopy they were compared to bladeguard vets in 9th, I'd say it's about damn time they finally have the offensive stats at the very least compared to how bad they were offensively and defensively compared to bladeguard vets baseline.
Just be glad our choppas kept the AP-1, the bigger question is if shootas will be relevant at all this edition. (sadly I doubt it).
I think the last time I took my shoota boyz out of the carrying case was for the Shadow War Armageddon specialist game
I'm hoping they throw us a bone on shooting. Let's say Sustained Hits 1 on Shootas, 2 on Big Shootas and something larger on the Snazzwagon/Gorkanaut etc. That'd be a lot of fun every time we roll a 6.
Grimskul wrote: Also, feels weird to be salty about Sword Brethren, when they're the special elite unit for BT specifically. Given how poopy they were compared to bladeguard vets in 9th, I'd say it's about damn time they finally have the offensive stats at the very least compared to how bad they were offensively and defensively compared to bladeguard vets baseline.
Just be glad our choppas kept the AP-1, the bigger question is if shootas will be relevant at all this edition. (sadly I doubt it).
I think the last time I took my shoota boyz out of the carrying case was for the Shadow War Armageddon specialist game
I'm hoping they throw us a bone on shooting. Let's say Sustained Hits 1 on Shootas, 2 on Big Shootas and something larger on the Snazzwagon/Gorkanaut etc. That'd be a lot of fun every time we roll a 6.
Yeah. I have a bad feeling we're just going to get rapid fire 1, 2A, range 18" S4 AP0 as a statline, but I definitely hope you're right regarding the sustained hits as it would be great to have some form of Dakka Dakka Dakka! again.
I know GW won't do this, but if they had made the new boyz kit more modular and less monopose with full options, it would be nice if we could have a separate shoota boyz and slugga/choppa boyz datasheets so that they can properly have shootas be buffed for ranged combat by the datasheet rules while the choppa boyz datasheet is better suited to being mechanized or getting stuck into close combat.
Just a quick question about Ghaz. As shocked as we all were about his drop in Toughness is it now feasible that with the infantry keyword he will be eligible to be “healed” by a pain boy?
No wolves on Fenris wrote: Just a quick question about Ghaz. As shocked as we all were about his drop in Toughness is it now feasible that with the infantry keyword he will be eligible to be “healed” by a pain boy?
My best guess would be no because ghaz wouldn't take damage until he's the last model in a squad anyways and it's highly likely the painboy only applies effects to the unit vs an aura. In the situation where someone uses the precision on him to do damage maybe, but I'm guessing painboys will be considered leaders so probs won't be able to take him in the same squad as ghaz.
Or is hit by precice. Heal would be handy if you face eldrad plus farseer combl. Otherwise dead in 2 turns virtually quaranteed. If he wants almost everytime can if want literally decide "you take 6mw" no roll needed.
No wolves on Fenris wrote: Just a quick question about Ghaz. As shocked as we all were about his drop in Toughness is it now feasible that with the infantry keyword he will be eligible to be “healed” by a pain boy?
My best guess would be no because ghaz wouldn't take damage until he's the last model in a squad anyways and it's highly likely the painboy only applies effects to the unit vs an aura. In the situation where someone uses the precision on him to do damage maybe, but I'm guessing painboys will be considered leaders so probs won't be able to take him in the same squad as ghaz.
DG Plague Surgeon revives his own squad and can hear models from any unit within 3".
Tittliewinks22 wrote: I hope painboy/painboss dont count as characters, and just unit upgrades
Doubt it. They haven't been a unit upgrade since 4th/5th edition, and especially with them being separate clampacks, it's extremely unlikely they won't be allowed to join most Ork infantry units.
Jidmah wrote: I just hope they don't make painboyz nobz-only. DG leaders are extremely limited in what they can join.
Yeah that would suck, since that would be contingent on Nobz actually being good this edition which I kinda doubt given GW's track record with them. Ideally the list of joinable units for Painboyz would be:
Painbosses being able to join the above units alongside:
- Beast Snagga Boyz
- Squighog Riderz
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The Red Hobbit wrote: Yeah I'd be disappointed if I can't attach a painboy to a group of 30 Boyz. Well, assuming we can still do 30 Boyz.
After what we've seen happen to gaunts in the previews and now guard being able to have up to 20 models in an infantry squad, I have a bad feeling this might be the new trend for this edition.
After what we've seen happen to gaunts in the previews and now guard being able to have up to 20 models in an infantry squad, I have a bad feeling this might be the new trend for this edition.
Yea and GW did say in the ork preview
"This is fun on a big mob that’ll roll lots of dice, like a squad of 20 Boyz or a Hunta Rig bristling with sawblades and Butcha Boyz. More dice means more 6s, which means more killy. That’s how you really get stuck in."
After what we've seen happen to gaunts in the previews and now guard being able to have up to 20 models in an infantry squad, I have a bad feeling this might be the new trend for this edition.
Yea and GW did say in the ork preview
"This is fun on a big mob that’ll roll lots of dice, like a squad of 20 Boyz or a Hunta Rig bristling with sawblades and Butcha Boyz. More dice means more 6s, which means more killy. That’s how you really get stuck in."
To continue picking up crumbs, the weird boys' 'eadbanger also ends up with S10 5dmg with a mob of 20 which feels a lot more like something GW would do than giving him a S12 7dmg shot.
That said, I'm not sad to see mobs of 30 go. They were unwieldy anyways and until 8th no one really ever ran them because of that. With the new blast rules and very limited second row fighting, 3x 20 would probably superior to 3x 20 anyways.
Boosykes wrote: I think it will be mobs of 20 also but do you think it will be 2 nobs in 20 or 1? Seems like 2 but that is going to feel a little weird.
Based on how GW is going by plastic kits and how it's built more than anything else and how the guardsmen squads have 2 sergeants in a squad of 20 from the previews, I would say we get 2 Nobz.
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TedNugent wrote: Why would painboss have the FNP aura when snaggas already have 6+ FNP?
TedNugent wrote: Brb says FNP is either-or. I'm not sure if there's a mechanism for that to stack, and it'd defeat the entire purpose of bringing back USRs.
It's possible they just give out a 5+ FNP aura instead baseline, so you would choose to use that over the 6+ FNP they have.
GW has released relevant keywords in their filters in the shop.
You can now filter for things like infiltrator/character etc, it gives an idea of what keywords were given to who.
Has an example, greetchin are not battleline, only boyz and snagga boyz are.
deffkilla wartrike is a leader.. so on
Automatically Appended Next Post: also squigboyz and warbikes, nobz on smash squig are considered mounted, funny enough wartrike is mounted but beast boss on squig isn't for some reason mabe mistake since thraka is still under monsters
It's worth noting that while those keywords are an indicator, they are also a mess right now and GW is constantly changing them as proven on multiple screenshots.
Forceride wrote: Yeah, you might be right, meganobz seem to have lost deep strike keyword... but marines termies still have it. we will have to wait for the 15.
Forceride wrote: Yeah, you might be right, meganobz seem to have lost deep strike keyword... but marines termies still have it. we will have to wait for the 15.
when did they ever have deepstrike?
Assumption since i am from the understanding telyporta stratagem no longer exists? since we can't use it, they would at least have deepstrike or something? But i guess you might be right.
It is still too soon but i am hoping we have tools to be mobile, so far, da jump is not a good one. And movement wins games.
Btw for the people talking about the boyz max squad size, the ork patrol has 20 boyz and the warboss in mega armor. they did mention they would balance around them. Still is speculation though.
From what ever data there is out there, I think people should be ready for Orks to suck pretty bad in 10th.
In 9th it took them 2 years to make orks somewhat turnament worthy.
10th is making melee worse and Orks seem to ony have damage in melee. All Ork characters will (I think) loose thoughness, Ghaz is T6 to fit in with meganobs, Warbosses will be T5 ect. It´s gonna be pretty bad. Remember the 1cp strat where your character gets presission...
Our melee will probably be a bit worse, but our shooting should be marginally to considerably better depending on if our rokkits, deffguns, and snazzguns are heavy or not. 🤞
Tarp wrote: From what ever data there is out there, I think people should be ready for Orks to suck pretty bad in 10th.
In 9th it took them 2 years to make orks somewhat turnament worthy.
10th is making melee worse and Orks seem to ony have damage in melee. All Ork characters will (I think) loose thoughness, Ghaz is T6 to fit in with meganobs, Warbosses will be T5 ect. It´s gonna be pretty bad. Remember the 1cp strat where your character gets presission...
It is worth noting that the people who managed to make orks tournament worthy are the same ones who designed 10th, instead of the clowns who wrote 9th edition's codex.
In essence you are just crying about the sky falling without any knowledge whatsoever to back up your claims.
. but the stompa got +1 to hit and hit Lord invocatus (Lord Avocado of South America) who was, once again, behind a forest, yet had poked his head out to attack my dakkajet (which had 3 wounds left). So again, i was hitting on 5s.
I was looking forward to finally running some 30 man blobs again, but those blast and engagement range rules pretty much kill that idea. Why does 
So you're saying I should covert two of my warbosses into bikers and sweep through with three warbosses on warbikes? 
