I feel Nanavati needs to go into significantly more detail than "cover lol" as to why Speedwaaagh "can't work" given all the mounting evidence to the contrary. I mean yes, that scenario where your opponent's entire army is able to camp in dense cover is an obvious negative, but I can't think of many tables where that's a realistic prospect.

There is a meta dimension in that I think if people start packing bags of multi-meltas/dark lances etc then buggy lists may fall over even faster than they kill things themselves - but equally I'm not sure the rest of the meta will allow lists like that to prosper, hence we are where we are today.

Maybe it will shift towards even more ridiculous antitank or, on the contrary, to targets with obscec that buggies can't kill with shooting...let's see. But now, buggies are undoubtedly top tier.

 Jidmah wrote:
If anything, Nick has proven repeatedly that despite being an exceptionally good player, he doesn't understand how orks work.

He did a very similar article for our last codex, was wrong about most of it and failed to place with orks even once, and not for the lack of trying.

Yeah, definitely. But I like to read it, because he is neither stupid nor lacking of experience with W40k. His concept of solving the game in movement is interesting.

But his objection againts the vehicle lists based on traffic jam issue is fail. If some wants to play vehicle list, this is the first think you have to plan about. Make a mix of vehicles having different moving needs to avoid the traffic jam is essentual. Something have to march forward, something needs to stay back.

That is btw one of the thinks which makes squigbuggies so good now. They needs to be on places on the table, where other buggies don ´t want to be…


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:
Maybe it will shift towards even more ridiculous antitank or, on the contrary, to targets with obscec that buggies can't kill with shooting...let's see. But now, buggies are undoubtedly top tier.

Thanks to the armies like Ad Mech now you dont have to afraid of massive antitank lists IMHO.

Eh, any time he talks about orks, he tries to get around their weakness to make them play like marines, and this article is full of the same nonsense. Because he always tries to fit a square peg into a round hole, he ends up with a list that has none of the strengths or orks nor marines.

But yes, the great part about squig buggies is that they don't care about going fast or where the enemy is, which solves much of the traffic jam issues I've encountered previously.

To be fair though, I've taken a liking to my "one of everything" speed waaagh list which can't even remotely be considered competitive. Interestingly enough though, the KFF has snuk itself back into the list as a staple, because blowing 4CP on kff and kopta smoke could T1 has thrown a major wrench into my opponent's plans multiple times now.

 koooaei wrote:
Maybe it will shift towards even more ridiculous antitank or, on the contrary, to targets with obscec that buggies can't kill with shooting...let's see. But now, buggies are undoubtedly top tier.

buggies are not killy enough for me, i never liked them and still don't like them, take the scrapjet for example- i every time you fire its Twin big shoota 10 shots at s5 with its +1 to hit and fire it at a basic space marine Intercessor you will on average kill 1 marine every 3 turns.

fire at something weaker, say a gaurdsman, it will kill 2- big woooopy lol

With the Speedwaaagh they gain AP-1 and a few more shots though. If buggies aren't killy, what is in our roster, other than characters? Infantries are certainly less killy than buggies.

A scrapjet which is enhanced by speedwaagh firing everything towards marines and then charging them can do a lot of damage actually. It can kill a whole single model just by the charge movement itself if you use Ramming Speed.

 kingbbobb wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Maybe it will shift towards even more ridiculous antitank or, on the contrary, to targets with obscec that buggies can't kill with shooting...let's see. But now, buggies are undoubtedly top tier.

buggies are not killy enough for me, i never liked them and still don't like them, take the scrapjet for example- i every time you fire its Twin big shoota 10 shots at s5 with its +1 to hit and fire it at a basic space marine Intercessor you will on average kill 1 marine every 3 turns.

fire at something weaker, say a gaurdsman, it will kill 2- big woooopy lol

I think this is more an issue with marines than with Ork buggies.

Orks have always been best when you go to an extreme; either spam a weapon that will more or less kill something with every shot that gets through (rokkits, kmbs, etc), or just hurl such an obscene amount of shots that they're bound to do something (triple kill tank giga shootas).

I don't think there's ever been a time where big shootas have been good, except getting four of them for free on a handful of FW models. And even then it's only because they're free.

 Blackie wrote:
With the Speedwaaagh they gain AP-1 and a few more shots though. If buggies aren't killy, what is in our roster, other than characters? Infantries are certainly less killy than buggies.

that would change it from 1 marine every 3 turns to 1 marine every 2 turns

Well, the second part of Competitive Inovations on goonhammer is out and despite they called this issue a “Global Waaaagh” there is not a single ork list except Andrew Penn.

And honestly, Andrew Penn is there always he plays somethink - even with totaly crazy lists nobidy understand how does it works - so it ´ s more about the player than the list I guess

I would like to read his article about the new codex much more than Nicks….

 kingbbobb wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Maybe it will shift towards even more ridiculous antitank or, on the contrary, to targets with obscec that buggies can't kill with shooting...let's see. But now, buggies are undoubtedly top tier.

buggies are not killy enough for me, i never liked them and still don't like them, take the scrapjet for example- i every time you fire its Twin big shoota 10 shots at s5 with its +1 to hit and fire it at a basic space marine Intercessor you will on average kill 1 marine every 3 turns.

fire at something weaker, say a gaurdsman, it will kill 2- big woooopy lol

I'd say its somewhat disingenous to bring up the big shootas as the main selling point of buggies. You omit the rokkit kannon, which got a lot better barring the mobility issues of not being able to advance/shoot with it anymore, and even the wing missile got better. And as the others have mentioned you don't talk about the damage it can inflict on the charge. And as mentioned, the SpeedWAAAGH! just makes them even more efficient and as a platform its very durable for the cost when you factor in ramshackle. By its own, it may not be particularly scary, but that's why you take like 3 or more of the darn things. The shooting starts racking up after that.

I think this is more an issue with marines than with Ork buggies.

yeah but when you go to these events most of the time you will be matched up against a space marine because its the most popular faction, thats why everything is compared to space marines- we ork players are just going to have to deal with that.

Orks have always been best when you go to an extreme; either spam a weapon that will more or less kill something with every shot that gets through (rokkits, kmbs, etc), or just hurl such an obscene amount of shots that they're bound to do something (triple kill tank giga shootas).

thats true but that has always been to try and make the most out of - detachment wide /army wide abilities/buffs/strategems - bad moons rerolls/more dakka/shoot twice etc
this 9th edition codex has seen alot of nerfs to those kinds of buffs and abilities.
There are exceptions though- freebootas klan kulture for example,
but this kulture adds +1 to hit and when you use this on buggies that have +1 to hit built in to some of their weapons it is a waste.

I don't think there's ever been a time where big shootas have been good, except getting four of them for free on a handful of FW models. And even then it's only because they're free.

yes, but again i think the loss of army wide buffs and abilities and stratagems has made them even worse than before



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:

 kingbbobb wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Maybe it will shift towards even more ridiculous antitank or, on the contrary, to targets with obscec that buggies can't kill with shooting...let's see. But now, buggies are undoubtedly top tier.

buggies are not killy enough for me, i never liked them and still don't like them, take the scrapjet for example- i every time you fire its Twin big shoota 10 shots at s5 with its +1 to hit and fire it at a basic space marine Intercessor you will on average kill 1 marine every 3 turns.

fire at something weaker, say a gaurdsman, it will kill 2- big woooopy lol

I'd say its somewhat disingenous to bring up the big shootas as the main selling point of buggies. You omit the rokkit kannon, which got a lot better barring the mobility issues of not being able to advance/shoot with it anymore, and even the wing missile got better. And as the others have mentioned you don't talk about the damage it can inflict on the charge. And as mentioned, the SpeedWAAAGH! just makes them even more efficient and as a platform its very durable for the cost when you factor in ramshackle. By its own, it may not be particularly scary, but that's why you take like 3 or more of the darn things. The shooting starts racking up after that.

the rockkit kannon has mobility issues like you said,
what i am trying to say about the scrapjet is that it is a
"jack of all trades model and master of non" - everytime i look at it i always think another unit could to the same job better

there are few situation in which you can use all of its weapons optimally in a single turn.

its rockkit kannon enjoy hitting on 5's
you charge you can't use the rockkit kannon at all because of blast
in combat it hits on 4's instead of the ork standard of 3's and has only 4 attacks -on average 2 hits
even durability it doesn't excel - it is less durable than a trukk

 kingbbobb wrote:

I think this is more an issue with marines than with Ork buggies.

yeah but when you go to these events most of the time you will be matched up against a space marine because its the most popular faction, thats why everything is compared to space marines- we ork players are just going to have to deal with that.

Orks have always been best when you go to an extreme; either spam a weapon that will more or less kill something with every shot that gets through (rokkits, kmbs, etc), or just hurl such an obscene amount of shots that they're bound to do something (triple kill tank giga shootas).

thats true but that has always been to try and make the most out of - detachment wide /army wide abilities/buffs/strategems - bad moons rerolls/more dakka/shoot twice etc
this 9th edition codex has seen alot of nerfs to those kinds of buffs and abilities.
There are exceptions though- freebootas klan kulture for example,
but this kulture adds +1 to hit and when you use this on buggies that have +1 to hit built in to some of their weapons it is a waste.

I don't think there's ever been a time where big shootas have been good, except getting four of them for free on a handful of FW models. And even then it's only because they're free.

yes, but again i think the loss of army wide buffs and abilities and stratagems has made them even worse than before



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:

 kingbbobb wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Maybe it will shift towards even more ridiculous antitank or, on the contrary, to targets with obscec that buggies can't kill with shooting...let's see. But now, buggies are undoubtedly top tier.

buggies are not killy enough for me, i never liked them and still don't like them, take the scrapjet for example- i every time you fire its Twin big shoota 10 shots at s5 with its +1 to hit and fire it at a basic space marine Intercessor you will on average kill 1 marine every 3 turns.

fire at something weaker, say a gaurdsman, it will kill 2- big woooopy lol

I'd say its somewhat disingenous to bring up the big shootas as the main selling point of buggies. You omit the rokkit kannon, which got a lot better barring the mobility issues of not being able to advance/shoot with it anymore, and even the wing missile got better. And as the others have mentioned you don't talk about the damage it can inflict on the charge. And as mentioned, the SpeedWAAAGH! just makes them even more efficient and as a platform its very durable for the cost when you factor in ramshackle. By its own, it may not be particularly scary, but that's why you take like 3 or more of the darn things. The shooting starts racking up after that.

the rockkit kannon has mobility issues like you said,
what i am trying to say about the scrapjet is that it is a
"jack of all trades model and master of non" - everytime i look at it i always think another unit could to the same job better

there are few situation in which you can use all of its weapons optimally in a single turn.

you move -1 to hit for its rockkit kannon enjoy hitting on 6's
you charge you can't use the rockkit kannon at all because of blast
in combat it hits on 4's instead of the ork standard of 3's and has only 4 attacks -on average 2 hits
even durability it doesn't excel - it is less durable than a trukk

Wait, hold up. How does moving make you hit on 6's? Unless you're shooting through dense terrain or some other trait/strat that your opponent has that gives neg. mods to hit, you can fire heavy weapons without a -1 to hit penalty if you're not infantry.

Wait, hold up. How does moving make you hit on 6's? Unless you're shooting through dense terrain or some other trait/strat that your opponent has that gives neg. mods to hit, you can fire heavy weapons without a -1 to hit penalty if you're not infantry.

ah yeah i always forget about that, hitting on 5's

Not sure where else you get the equivalent of 3.5 (ish) rokkit launchers and 4 big shootas (2 with +1 to hit) and a surprisingly dangerous charge for just 90 points.

In a Speedwaaagh turn Scrapjets expect to shoot about 3 intercessors, for a 66% return on their points, rising to nearly 100% if Freebooterz is up. This is incredible. Then break out say Ramming Speed (expensive perhaps, but reliable) and hopefully do a bunch of mortal wounds. Obviously you could be unlucky and get none, but equally you've got a good chance of wiping characters or expensive elite models (Incubi for example).

Odds are at this point you've got your moneys worth.

Scrapjets are very good. No serious discussion could be hold about it. Especially not based on “their big shootas are useless” or “they hold nothing”.

Big shootas are almost useless. That is an characteristic mentioned here hundred times. Not the flaw of scrapjet. Shooting on Marines with big shootas is pure “no better target and I have a lot of time” or “I have no idea how my weapons works” situation.

And scrapjet holds enough for 90. Maybe more than enought face to their atack ability. Yes, trukkholds more, but trukk attack ability is zero.

Scrapjets are great, because - as was said - their vomit rokkits (and there is always something you can pepper with big shootas in 36”) and after that they can charge and deal a serious ammount of damage by mortal wounds in charge. And after that, you fight.

In new codex, they are weaker but before, Evil Sunz Scrapjet improved by Corkscrew Kustom Job with the warboss on bike / defkilla nearby, Ramming Speed strategem and Unstoppable Momentum strategem can deal up to 12 Mortal Wounds and move 10+2+6+1+18+18+1+1+12=69”. Which is super rare, average is about 38”+ Advance + Evil Sunz.

One of them.

You usually takes three, so you have very good chance to do it 3x.

I 'm sorry, but what another unit is able to do anything like this for this price?

Speedwaagh bigshootas onyour skrapjet deal only ~20% less damage than all the rokkits vs targets with t6-7, 5++ and -1 damage. There are lots of targets with such stats.
And if you calculate the damage output vs t8, bigshootas actually deal more damage.

Nowhere close to useless in my book.

So far I have been pleased with the new big shootas when Speedwaaagh is active. Bothering to fire with them on Trukks and whatnot has felt like going through the motions since 8th, they're still not intimidating but they've managed to plink enough wounds to change how I distribute the rest of my shooting, on several occasions. Not a big enough change to make me want to add them on vehicles that don't come with a mandatory one or two, of course.

 koooaei wrote:
Nowhere close to useless in my book.

Nowhere close to useless in any book. Just meat a to chew while everybody are painting and waiting for Killrigs and other stuff from new codex.

I ' m really interested how the top lists change after all models comes to the market. My Boss on Robosaur is ready but I don' t want to start any conversion of the Rigs until the real size is confirmed.

And I'm really interested in to the new book that comes next year?? and makes the extensions to the new codex. My guess is that this book pimps up the Sneakbites even more.

Big shootas are almost useless. That is an characteristic mentioned here hundred times. Not the flaw of scrapjet. Shooting on Marines with big shootas is pure “no better target and I have a lot of time” or “I have no idea how my weapons works” situation.

on this i agree

And scrapjet holds enough for 90. Maybe more than enought face to their atack ability. Yes, trukkholds more, but trukk attack ability is zero.

i was only making the point that the scrapjets are made of tinfoil , they don't have survivability when compared to other ork vehicles - they have T6 W9 and 4+ save - anything that attacks them will tear them to peices and the fact they are in squads means it is worse than other vehicles which benefit from target saturation.

Scrapjets are great, because - as was said - their vomit rokkits (and there is always something you can pepper with big shootas in 36”) and after that they can charge and deal a serious ammount of damage by mortal wounds in charge. And after that, you fight.

the rockets will kill 1 space marine per model on average
the mortal wounds are 50/50 chance of d3 mortals per model - on average thats probably 2 and another single space marine dead - thats not bad but its not great, its an ability you will likely only use once per battle unless your trying to do something funky will fall back and charge

In new codex, they are weaker but before, Evil Sunz Scrapjet improved by Corkscrew Kustom Job with the warboss on bike / defkilla nearby, Ramming Speed strategem and Unstoppable Momentum strategem can deal up to 12 Mortal Wounds and move 10+2+6+1+18+18+1+1+12=69”. Which is super rare, average is about 38”+ Advance + Evil Sunz.

well i do not want to talk about 8th edition but i have never seen anyone execute Unstoppable Momentum strategem ever in a game,

You usually takes three, so you have very good chance to do it 3x.

as far as i know most people are taking squads of 2 due to the risk of morale fail and the third auto fleeing

I 'm sorry, but what another unit is able to do anything like this for this price?

i want it to specialise at something... at the minute it specialises at nothing.
1/ It is less resilient than a trukk
2/ Less killy than a dakkajet at range
3/ Less killy than a deffdread at close combat
4/ Worse in just about every single way than a squad of warbikers with the exception of morale vulnerability

The spiked ram is not a good enough reason to take it.

Just to turn things away from the Scrapjet discussion, I would like some feedback on my list and my proposed changes to it. I posted it on the army list subforum but didn't get much feedback.

Here is the list as it currently stands;


The main proposed change is to drop the klaws on the stormboys, and drop the deffkoptas to three, which will allow room for a mob of bikers with a big choppa on the nob (130 points). I could also swap out the bikers with a dakkajet instead.

The koptas are really good, but I'm not sure what the magic number is with them. The stormboys are hit and miss and either win games or just melt when confronted by a stiff breeze.

Thoughts on adding bikers?

 Blackie wrote:
With the Speedwaaagh they gain AP-1 and a few more shots though. If buggies aren't killy, what is in our roster, other than characters? Infantries are certainly less killy than buggies.

A scrapjet which is enhanced by speedwaagh firing everything towards marines and then charging them can do a lot of damage actually. It can kill a whole single model just by the charge movement itself if you use Ramming Speed.

To put it bluntly? My favorite unit in our Codex....KOMMANDOS!!!!!!!

My list right now is 30 Kommandos in 3 mobz with Nob/PK Bomb squig and distraction Grot...with how prevalent Terrain is right now I could be considered to scrap the distraction grot...but its just so damn worth it that I want it every time. I simultaneously run 3x trukk Boyz and 3x 10 Stormboyz backed up by Mek gunz. This is just a beat stick Alpha strike list that is actually fairly durable. The Kommandos deploy in terrain turn 1 and get 3+ armor on a T5 model for 10ppm The Trukkz aren't very durable but worst case scenario I see 2 at most being popped and that leaves a lot of other Alpha strike threats to deal with. Basically the infantry dominates, just not boyz who are more of an after thought who are only useful as Trukk boyz so they can turn 1 get into CC.

Hi there. Had my first game with new orks against dark eldar
We played about 1700 points, tried out a couple of things, and it worked quiet well, solid victory for the orks

Lists from memory


If someone's interested here is a 'short' debriefing of the game. As far as I can remember^^:


Noteable mentions, my two cents on the units:

Damn the MAN warbloss with ard as nails and Superbody was exceptional. He was attacked by 6-7 bloodbribes..and a succubus (very bad matchup, because of lots of attacks with high ap) and even after wyches attacked again for 2Cp, he still stood there with one wound left. He did next to nothing in return mind you... But damn he is tough.

The wartrike was also surprisingly good... Lot tougher than I expected thx to ramshackle and it even shot down the last three bloodbribes with his Boomsticks in CC (that's what I call a shotgun wedding, lol)

Tankbustaz died to a stiff breeze after their Trukk blew up... (Nothing new though)

Gretchin, Kommandos and stormboyz got me some points as expected, didnt do much else though

Single mek gun was awesome, cause it wasn't shot at one single time (too many other juicy targets I guess) even lucked out and one shotted the succubus

Wazboms have amazing firepower., and are a real fire magnet. Dakkajets are just wow... Clearing chaff and medium things right and left

The squighogs are a great distraction unit. Other player was massively afraid of them... So they soaked quite alot of shooting (same goes for the nob, I am still not sold on him though... Mortal wound shenanigans are great, but 65 points is quit expensive, mantle is useless, killchoppa would be a better choice I guess) but more importantly they dictated my opponents movement. He basically didnt push their flank.

The KILLRIG IS fething AMAZING! it broke the back of the enemy army. it deepstruck in their backfield and psyched, shot, rampaged rammingspeedily and tor apart huge chunks of stuff in CC. Took me alot of time scratchbuilding one... But damn... So noice.

Scrapjets were ok, as were the warbikes. Squigbuggy was a bit underwhelming... But I'd still take at least one in every list.


Moving forward I am excited to field a warbloss on squig (as soon as I can get around printing one) as the other choices have next to zero hitting power. It's either be tanks or killy... And the killy part is rather meh (killchoppa with brutal but Kunming maybe? But on what model? I don't wanna die in return cause some random murin gobsmashed my boss with the butt of his rifle)
All in all orks are alot more solid than I thought. Freeboota trait is amazing and so is the ramshackle... Well at least in CC
engage on all fronts and octarius are really easy to get lots of points. And we can field enough units to clog up the objectives.

Well, those were my two cents

Honestly I like the smashanob most for being a trait caddy. Giving them follow me lads or beastgob is a great way to support your squiglads or other units while allowing your squigosaur or other big ticket character to take the more important traits to their build. Be that durability or output. Otherwise they're just a nob biker with a slight buff to melee output. Though taking 3 as an assassin unit is a fun idea. Most midlevel characters will drop to the 7.5 average mortals they put out regardless of what defensive abilities they have. (outside of a great FNP to mortals ala grey knights.)

SemperMortis wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
With the Speedwaaagh they gain AP-1 and a few more shots though. If buggies aren't killy, what is in our roster, other than characters? Infantries are certainly less killy than buggies.

A scrapjet which is enhanced by speedwaagh firing everything towards marines and then charging them can do a lot of damage actually. It can kill a whole single model just by the charge movement itself if you use Ramming Speed.

To put it bluntly? My favorite unit in our Codex....KOMMANDOS!!!!!!!

My list right now is 30 Kommandos in 3 mobz with Nob/PK Bomb squig and distraction Grot...with how prevalent Terrain is right now I could be considered to scrap the distraction grot...but its just so damn worth it that I want it every time. I simultaneously run 3x trukk Boyz and 3x 10 Stormboyz backed up by Mek gunz. This is just a beat stick Alpha strike list that is actually fairly durable. The Kommandos deploy in terrain turn 1 and get 3+ armor on a T5 model for 10ppm The Trukkz aren't very durable but worst case scenario I see 2 at most being popped and that leaves a lot of other Alpha strike threats to deal with. Basically the infantry dominates, just not boyz who are more of an after thought who are only useful as Trukk boyz so they can turn 1 get into CC.

Kommandos are awesome but with rule of three maxing them out (3x10) is something like 350 points at most. Add 3x1 Mek gunz, that's another 135 points for a grand total of 450-500 points. For 2000 points lists. Those units fill up Elite and Heavy Support slots. For these reasons they really don't compete with buggies. Even if 3x trukk boyz units join the lot there's still half budget available. 3 scrapjets are 270 points.

Vehicles based lists are getting good results in competitive games, it's not like we just have infantry spam that relies on alpha strike at the moment.

I'm curious, for those who have already gained the new codex (I'm waiting for it to drop on its own, as I don't want to feed the scalpers), how did Deff Dreads fare? Particularly the 4 kustom-mega-blaster + sparkly bitz combo which I was building 3 dreads to use?

 some bloke wrote:
I'm curious, for those who have already gained the new codex (I'm waiting for it to drop on its own, as I don't want to feed the scalpers), how did Deff Dreads fare? Particularly the 4 kustom-mega-blaster + sparkly bitz combo which I was building 3 dreads to use?

I think deff dredds are not very good this edition. Too soft and lack mobility. Shooting versions are just worse scrapjets. If you play casual games I guess they will do ok, but there is just many better things we can use to do the job. CC goff dreads can deal lots of damage but the two times I tried them they just required too much effort to go kill stuff. Sguig riders kill stuff too, but have 4 more move, and I love using them for the visuals on the battlefield (I have 3 and then 9 gore AOS converted ones with cybernetics and power lances). And even these dudes are subpar really (don't think they will make the cut for my next tournament) IMHO. I will test them more though. Deff dreads I won't, not until they go down in points next CA or something

 some bloke wrote:
I'm curious, for those who have already gained the new codex (I'm waiting for it to drop on its own, as I don't want to feed the scalpers), how did Deff Dreads fare? Particularly the 4 kustom-mega-blaster + sparkly bitz combo which I was building 3 dreads to use?

Sparkly bitz as an upgrade for a dread squad doesn't exist anymore. Now all you can do is to pay 10 points to add an additional KMB shot to a single model. To make them hit on 4s you need to trigger the freebota trait.

But dreads are the only unit in the codex that can be taken as a squadron and split up as independent units after deployment and they're reasonably costed. I'd go for 1-2 Klaws and 2-3 KMBs though, not full KMBs as removing all their melee potential seems a waste.

I think they're a legit unit with strong internal competition, not really bad but certainly far from being among the best choices. I'm currently playing without them, only fielded 3x in a single game so far, but I'll certainly try them more in this edition unless they get nerfed at some point.

I like the idea of running 3 skorcha kanz in smaller games with 18" Deployment. This way they can advance, shoot and almost guarantee 2d turn charge. They seem harder to deal with than 1 skorcha dread. A bit more expensive and have ld issues but at least won't be dead from a lucky melta shot.

 Blackie wrote:

 some bloke wrote:
I'm curious, for those who have already gained the new codex (I'm waiting for it to drop on its own, as I don't want to feed the scalpers), how did Deff Dreads fare? Particularly the 4 kustom-mega-blaster + sparkly bitz combo which I was building 3 dreads to use?

Sparkly bitz as an upgrade for a dread squad doesn't exist anymore. Now all you can do is to pay 10 points to add an additional KMB shot to a single model. To make them hit on 4s you need to trigger the freebota trait.

But dreads are the only unit in the codex that can be taken as a squadron and split up as independent units after deployment and they're reasonably costed. I'd go for 1-2 Klaws and 2-3 KMBs though, not full KMBs as removing all their melee potential seems a waste.

I think they're a legit unit with strong internal competition, not really bad but certainly far from being among the best choices. I'm currently playing without them, only fielded 3x in a single game so far, but I'll certainly try them more in this edition unless they get nerfed at some point.

LOL if dredds get nerfed then 3/4 of the codex will get nerfed as well Hah Hah Hah

I also can only see the deff dread has a 3sckorcha/1claw with the movement kustom job as the most viable as you can get.

The issue with the dread is it's delivery and low BS. It's subpar in shooting leaves him dependent of kultures, and since we lost the 1+ to charge for ES it's not a reliable tely either as a melee. It's also not very durable since there is no stratagem support for them, compared to something like buggies. Oh and it's slow, really slow...

It is also overshadowed by a lot of units which do what it does, just better.

It's a real shame cause i love the model, it just has no fit currently.

Deff dreads definitely swung towards more of a melee role in the new codex. It's worth noting that both Big Krumpaz and Tellyporta work on the unit of 3 before they split, so you can deep strike a full mob of all-klaw dreads in during a Waaaagh with 8 attacks each hitting on 2+. All get re-rolls to charge, and one model can use Ramming Speed for a 3D6 re-rolled charge plus mortal wounds.

Not as good as buggies of course, but what is

I've only used one dread in a game so far as full melee, he did ok when he lumbered into combat but he got smashed in return, they just feel a bit fragile when they get hit back by anything with a decent melee profile and as has been said I think the points are better spent elsewhere. It's a shame because it's a great model and the idea of a dread mob stomping about is awesome. I have two kitted out shooty dreads and as a deathskulls player they were absolute menaces with sparkly bits in the last book, I think sadly they are going to be warming the bench this time round

 xttz wrote:
Deff dreads definitely swung towards more of a melee role in the new codex. It's worth noting that both Big Krumpaz and Tellyporta work on the unit of 3 before they split, so you can deep strike a full mob of all-klaw dreads in during a Waaaagh with 8 attacks each hitting on 2+. All get re-rolls to charge, and one model can use Ramming Speed for a 3D6 re-rolled charge plus mortal wounds.

That is my prefered usage also, you could also load up each model with a scorcha for an extra 5 pts per model - with scorchas being range "12 to burn enemies on deployment

Not as good as buggies of course, but what is

lies lol, j/k lets not start that up again

KMB for me are now a no no

other shooting weapons such as scorchas/Rockits/Dakka guns were improved when orks lost dakka dakka but KMB were not unless i have missed something , so they flat out got nerfed.
Add on the nerf to deffskulls and KMB are a miss for me.

You clearly missed something:

just as a prestatement, i do not think deffdreads are top tier or anything... BUT trying to measure everything just by, how well it can alphastrike or can make back their points in destroyed models is kinda flawed...

even if a unit doesnt make their points back, it can have its uses and benefit their army. a dread would be a perfect example. its what 85 points with 4 claws? run it up the middle of the field, maybe towards an objective or a enemy bulkward.

first and foremost it can capture such objective. but ok lets say a single dread is chilling in the middle of the board, hasnt shot yet, hasnt krumped anything yet. it still has value. and the value is NOT part of your overall strategy, you dont rely on it to do a specific task, you dont need it to destroy something or hold something, its not part of your essential kill or hold group, it is just there. its a thread. it could do potentially massive damage if unchecked and your opponent knows that. HE HAS TO REACT.

1. if he ignores it, win for you as the dread can do damage or hold in your next turn

2. if he shoots at it or attacks it in melee, win becasue everything that hits the dread is not hitting your important stuff, everything that charged him is now closer to be countercharged/shot at

3. if he avoids it, win because you have exerscised board control

target saturation is a real thing. you force your opponent to make decisions... and each decision has a potential to be bad one and/or to mess with his "normal" strategy/plan

is the dread OP and should be fielded in every list? of course not, i am not even sure if it is "competitive" at all... but is it garbage? nope.

That's just the distraction carnifex argument in a nutshell though, which is the same as saying that a unit has no redeeming qualities - your points 1-3 hold true for almost every unit in every codex.

In general the dread compares badly to most buggies because it's so slow, it's shooting is worse and buggies like SJD, squigbuggy or scrapjet still put up a decent fight in combat.

On the upside, a dread can be sped up with the tellyporta/ramming speed or pistons (sadly just one though), has 3 damage attacks and actually is one of the few units that can make use of the speed-waaagh! assault weapon rule and advance during the first turn.
It's also a heavy support choice rather than a fast attack one, so that might be a reason to take it as well.

So it's not a lost cause, but at its current price tag (105 for a dual KMB dread) you really need to find a good reason why you wouldn't just run a much cheaper buggy in its stead.

So what is the best option for heavy support from a shooting phase standpoint? Is there anything worth taking or is the plan, “shooting is for da uvver races, orks get stuck in!”?

I like dreads but agree they may not make reliable enough impact to be competative.

However, I am curious as to your folks' thoughts on running a 2 dread mob, 1 with all klaws and the other with 4 KMB and the Kustom Job for +1 shot per KMB.

Deep strike them to get 4+4d3 KMB shots as well as a ramming speed charge on something within 9" and you can do some significant work and you present a lot of ramshackle wounds for them to focus on next turn. You can have the charge go to something that would even hit them back next turn to prolong the KMB dreads' chances of living.

I do agree through, they just arent super great, but they are not bad. When they get to do things, it feel really points efficient. It just when they dont.....

If they got <core> I would take them every game, as they would get advance and charge....

Is the 4 KMB armed dread with enhanced KMB +10pts not a viable unit Especially in freebooter detachment?

I mean it’s probably not intended but ….it’s still 4xd3+4 str 8 ap-3 d6 shots at essentially bs4.

gungo wrote:
Is the 4 KMB armed dread with enhanced KMB +10pts not a viable unit Especially in freebooter detachment?

I mean it’s probably not intended but ….it’s still 4xd3+4 str 8 ap-3 d6 shots at essentially bs4.

Oh yah! You can even give it -1 more ap during speedwaagh. Something would need to guarantee a kill first, but I am sure some squigbuggy triplets could wrangle that first.

bicycletoes wrote:

gungo wrote:
Is the 4 KMB armed dread with enhanced KMB +10pts not a viable unit Especially in freebooter detachment?

I mean it’s probably not intended but ….it’s still 4xd3+4 str 8 ap-3 d6 shots at essentially bs4.

Oh yah! You can even give it -1 more ap during speedwaagh. Something would need to guarantee a kill first, but I am sure some squigbuggy triplets could wrangle that first.

And you can add buzzgrob for +1 to hit if you don’t want freebooters but goff instead and he can repair the deffdread for 4 wounds each turn but let’s not get silly :p

Double Waagh ghaz would benefit both dreads...... you genius!

 Jidmah wrote:
That's just the distraction carnifex argument in a nutshell though, which is the same as saying that a unit has no redeeming qualities - your points 1-3 hold true for almost every unit in every codex.

In general the dread compares badly to most buggies because it's so slow, it's shooting is worse and buggies like SJD, squigbuggy or scrapjet still put up a decent fight in combat.

On the upside, a dread can be sped up with the tellyporta/ramming speed or pistons (sadly just one though), has 3 damage attacks and actually is one of the few units that can make use of the speed-waaagh! assault weapon rule and advance during the first turn.
It's also a heavy support choice rather than a fast attack one, so that might be a reason to take it as well.

So it's not a lost cause, but at its current price tag (105 for a dual KMB dread) you really need to find a good reason why you wouldn't just run a much cheaper buggy in its stead.

in a nutshell yes. BUT you cant apply this to most units though, as you need SOME redeeming qualities, thats why its called a distraction carnifex. if its to good it should be part of your overall plan, so it hurts if it gets destroyed or bogged up. if it cant do gak... its not a potential thread. if it dies to a stiff breeze it cant soak up firepower. for 85 points its just the sweetspot for a distraction unit with lots of potential, especially since you can ramming speed it (i mean you rarley would... but your opponent needs to consider this)

dont bother with KMB's... just get it as cheap as possible and run it up the field and throuw it in the opponents face, its their problem now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:

bicycletoes wrote:

gungo wrote:
Is the 4 KMB armed dread with enhanced KMB +10pts not a viable unit Especially in freebooter detachment?

I mean it’s probably not intended but ….it’s still 4xd3+4 str 8 ap-3 d6 shots at essentially bs4.

Oh yah! You can even give it -1 more ap during speedwaagh. Something would need to guarantee a kill first, but I am sure some squigbuggy triplets could wrangle that first.

And you can add buzzgrob for +1 to hit if you don’t want freebooters but goff instead and he can repair the deffdread for 4 wounds each turn but let’s not get silly :p

or you can just get another scrapjet and save 50 points

Well, my next tournament is with the new codex, so I finaly started to making a new list. I have a few notes and questions:

1. Hell, it ' s a reall puzzle to make a list with overcrowded fast attack slot and bunch of conditions like “one warlord in every detach” “core units only” etc. But that' s the fun part of making a list.

2. I want to give the wartrike the Freebotas Banner. Can I do it via Big Boss strategem? I want to have a real warlord in different detach.

Battlescribe said no, I say yes. Who is right and why please?

3. New Kommandos are really great. But how to use them right?

- Small cheap squads hidden as much as possible 9” in front of enemy or pure move bloking dudes seems to be a way. I give a no chance to survive T1 to bigger blobs of Kommandos if go second. So is there some reason to take a bigger squads or pay for equipement?

- How many of them is enough? I tend to have more Stormboyz for free deepstrike and great flexibility. It was a real struggle in old codex dropping the kommandos and then letting them rot in the corner, because of 6” move. Stormboyz are more flexible.

Or do I miss something?

4. New FW book comes with the “grot gunner” rule giving +1 to hit to Kannonwagon. I was surprised, all other important weapons have the wording “has a BS 2+/3+ etc”. Just Suppakannon has +1 to hit. So it means, it is the only important weapon in our arsenal that does not benefit from Freebotas klan ability.

The freebootas banner is a relic not a warlord trait. Maybe thats why you couldnt do it.

As long as your warlord is freebootas you can give a character the banner.

gungo wrote:
Is the 4 KMB armed dread with enhanced KMB +10pts not a viable unit Especially in freebooter detachment?

I mean it’s probably not intended but ….it’s still 4xd3+4 str 8 ap-3 d6 shots at essentially bs4.

It's fairly safe to assume that this rule won't survive the FAQ, so it's rather pointless to plan around it, right?

Beardedragon wrote:
The freebootas banner is a relic not a warlord trait. Maybe thats why you couldnt do it.

As long as your warlord is freebootas you can give a character the banner.

Damn! You are right! Sitting on the beach, drinking a beer and do the lists can lead to some confusions!

Further looking into the minimek, I'm coming to the conclusion, I might need at least 1 in a 1k game. They're great.

RedNoak wrote:
in a nutshell yes. BUT you cant apply this to most units though, as you need SOME redeeming qualities, thats why its called a distraction carnifex. if its to good it should be part of your overall plan, so it hurts if it gets destroyed or bogged up. if it cant do gak... its not a potential thread. if it dies to a stiff breeze it cant soak up firepower. for 85 points its just the sweetspot for a distraction unit with lots of potential, especially since you can ramming speed it (i mean you rarley would... but your opponent needs to consider this)

dont bother with KMB's... just get it as cheap as possible and run it up the field and throuw it in the opponents face, its their problem now.

I don't know about your games, but the dread is definitely in the "dies to a stiff breeze" category in mine. With just 6" movement it will not be a danger to anything in turn one, so your opponent can just safely ignore it, in turn 2 he usually still has the option to outmaneuver it or, worse, counter-charges it.

At 85 points for two big shootas or all melee units really isn't a threat to anyone, and if it dies before reaching melee it hasn't done anything, while most other units in the same weight class either are vastly faster, shoot better, or both. You pretty much have to buy some shooting to actually turn it into a threat that someone would want to shoot.

I think Dread shooting is awful for the points.

I think all melee has potential, at least in a more casual environment. They will die if your opponent wants them to - but at 85 points its not the end of the world and they should be concerned with other things. As said, 7-8 2+ S10 AP-3 3 damage hits should make a large proportion of your 85 points back versus a range of targets.

I think the problem is that M6" is quite awful in the modern game. From basic deployment they can't reliably get into combat for ages (and even if you Tellyporta 3 of them in 9" charges even with rerolls are hardly reliable). I feel "this might not do anything before turn 3" is just not a feature for units in competitive lists.

So I feel the all-klaw models are kind of a "good casual" unit if that makes sense, and shooting dreads are just out and out bad.

 koooaei wrote:
Further looking into the minimek, I'm coming to the conclusion, I might need at least 1 in a 1k game. They're great.

Is this within the context of Blood Axes and their relic? I don't see how they're useful outside of that specific kind of list, given we have better characters IMO for the extra WL traits/relics otherwise.

Tyel wrote:
I think Dread shooting is awful for the points.

I think all melee has potential, at least in a more casual environment. They will die if your opponent wants them to - but at 85 points its not the end of the world and they should be concerned with other things. As said, 7-8 2+ S10 AP-3 3 damage hits should make a large proportion of your 85 points back versus a range of targets.

I think the problem is that M6" is quite awful in the modern game. From basic deployment they can't reliably get into combat for ages (and even if you Tellyporta 3 of them in 9" charges even with rerolls are hardly reliable). I feel "this might not do anything before turn 3" is just not a feature for units in competitive lists.

So I feel the all-klaw models are kind of a "good casual" unit if that makes sense, and shooting dreads are just out and out bad.

A 4 klaw model with pistons kind of works well, but then we are talking about 100 points for the dread.

That said, I'm mostly playing casual-competitive games these days - but that usually doesn't mean that people are playing random crap and incoherent armies, but that they draw the best army they can from their collection. Despite optimal choices often not being available or are only played once, those armies still tear through dreads like butter.

In the old codex, the stratagems and kustom jobs made them work. All of those are gone.

 Jidmah wrote:

I don't know about your games, but the dread is definitely in the "dies to a stiff breeze" category in mine. With just 6" movement it will not be a danger to anything in turn one, so your opponent can just safely ignore it, in turn 2 he usually still has the option to outmaneuver it or, worse, counter-charges it.

At 85 points for two big shootas or all melee units really isn't a threat to anyone, and if it dies before reaching melee it hasn't done anything, while most other units in the same weight class either are vastly faster, shoot better, or both. You pretty much have to buy some shooting to actually turn it into a threat that someone would want to shoot.

I don't know what you call a stiff breeze... But every weapon used to kill a T7 8W 3+ save unit with ramshackle, that doesn't go into my important stuff... I am happy with. I need what three dark lances to kill that thing reliable? That's 8W's saved from my important stuff... Or about THREE D3+3 Anti-tank guns.

Sorry but that's a win for me.

Also 9-10" with an advance should put you right in the middle of the board. It has a potential threat range of 6 + 3d6 (more if ubran a regular whaagh) half a dozen 10+ strength attacks hitting on three's , high ap and 3 flat damage. If that is not a threat I don't know what is.
Again. I am not arguing super competitive stuff. But is it viable yes.

 Grimskul wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Further looking into the minimek, I'm coming to the conclusion, I might need at least 1 in a 1k game. They're great.

Is this within the context of Blood Axes and their relic? I don't see how they're useful outside of that specific kind of list, given we have better characters IMO for the extra WL traits/relics otherwise.

It's more of being the cheapest character with a decent gun.

1st - I often find myself with no units to occupy home objective later on cause the enemy focuses down mek guns pretty easily and kills grots the moment they show up. And that often ends up with 5-10 VP not earned per turn. Mek is a character and hidden grots or a mek gun + mek can safely score home objectives.

Same can be done with a squigbuggy + mek for midfield. If it works, it's amazing. Basically - baits your opponent to come much closer than he would have liked to do.

There are some missions where toy need to perform actions. He can do it in the open and not get killed, once again, cause he's a character.

He has great shooting potential for just 25 pts. Sooner or later there will be an occasion when he shoots down something way above his points and that will affect how the enemy will play in the future, most likely subconciously paying too much attention to a 25pt model. Yeah, it's a bit tricky but if you highlight how much he costs, what he can do and that he's one-shotted demon prince once, you can use it to your advantage. Mind games!

 Jidmah wrote:

RedNoak wrote:
in a nutshell yes. BUT you cant apply this to most units though, as you need SOME redeeming qualities, thats why its called a distraction carnifex. if its to good it should be part of your overall plan, so it hurts if it gets destroyed or bogged up. if it cant do gak... its not a potential thread. if it dies to a stiff breeze it cant soak up firepower. for 85 points its just the sweetspot for a distraction unit with lots of potential, especially since you can ramming speed it (i mean you rarley would... but your opponent needs to consider this)

dont bother with KMB's... just get it as cheap as possible and run it up the field and throuw it in the opponents face, its their problem now.

I don't know about your games, but the dread is definitely in the "dies to a stiff breeze" category in mine. With just 6" movement it will not be a danger to anything in turn one, so your opponent can just safely ignore it, in turn 2 he usually still has the option to outmaneuver it or, worse, counter-charges it.

At 85 points for two big shootas or all melee units really isn't a threat to anyone, and if it dies before reaching melee it hasn't done anything, while most other units in the same weight class either are vastly faster, shoot better, or both. You pretty much have to buy some shooting to actually turn it into a threat that someone would want to shoot.

i would never try and walk a deff dread, i still have nightmares about trying to move over a crater and suffering -2 to movement penalty, and then another -2 when trying to charge off of it. stupidity defined
Off topic for a minute-TIDE OF MUSCLE- is one of the best stratagems we have for core units, it flies under the radar but it is very useful.

in theory you could have a deffdread moving at 10" with Stompamatic Pistons + evil sons, with advance of 2+d6 = possible advance move of 18"
But this would only be for 1 model as kustom jobs can only go on 1 model and you would lose BIG KRUMPAZ as you can't mix kustom jobs and specialist mobs.

Teleporting them with big BIG KRUMPAZ is the only option in my mind

Pre-ordered codex delivered 11.9….. wait ork codex drops 9/11? Symbolic?

Or at least in Australia not on EU page jet

New Koptas are on 75mm oval base. Old Koptas were on 60mm. I expect that the rule “use the base that was in the box” is still valid? Or is it a time to rebase my koptas?

And this dude is back in resin:

Honestly I can't find myself wanting to take a KFF mek right now. The Megamek just does so much more for a small increase. You either give him a KMB for a nice bit of extra dakka. Or slap the dead shiny shoota on him for fairly good support firepower. To say nothing of the backup power klaw and 2+ sv should things go wrong.

For only 30points more it feels like you get great value even if you choose to pop the KFF with the strat

Want a standard KFF big mek? Take a slugga/choppa nob, put him on a 40mm base, add a spared burnaboyz barrel behind his back and glue a spared KFF from meganobz kit on top of it. Don't bother with the official model, it's in finecrap, quite expensive and most importantly utterly useless. Kitsbashing one for dirt cheap is the only advise I'd give to someone that wants to add that unit to his/her collection.

About kopta bases. Don't rebase them for gaming purpose. They are fielded in 3-5 models squads, they'll likely avoid combat in several games and even when they are engaged the difference between the new oval and the old round bases won't be significant.

Well, I would never thought that the old KFF big mek makes a return. While he completely sucks this codex, it's good to see him back.

If you like that model, you should totally hunt down a metal version. The back pack is a PITA to attach, but afterwards you have nigh indestructible model.

 Jidmah wrote:
Well, I would never thought that the old KFF big mek makes a return. While he completely sucks this codex, it's good to see him back.

If you like that model, you should totally hunt down a metal version. The back pack is a PITA to attach, but afterwards you have nigh indestructible model.

Well, despite the fact, I don' t agree it completely sucks (just pretty sucks imho- his big advetnage is that it' s a cheapest KFF), I 'm also very much surprised they returned the old model in production after such a long time. On the other side, it' s sl easy to kitbash your own, they are selling it just to fill the “all models in codex are offered for sale” in report.

In my experience it's the most expensive KFF.

Since you have nothing left of worth after blowing up the KFF (which is mandatory IMO), you have paid 60 points for it, while the MA big mek and the morkanaut pay 30, but both still are worth their remaining points even without KFF.

But the ded shiney shoota MA mek with opportunist is ridiculously awesome anyways. In my last game, it single-handedly disassembled my opponent's silver tide by sniping out a cryptek each turn by firing from a trukk boyz' transport (we agreed on no +1 or AP-1 from speeedwaaagh)

In any case, the model being back is great - that means its unit entry won't be legended or squatted in the future. I wonder if they managed to solve the production issues with finecast. The reason why it originally disappeared was because almost four out five produced models had flaws in them and it caused many returns and a huge load on customer support. The model simply wasn't compatible with the new technology.

 kingbbobb wrote:

i would never try and walk a deff dread, i still have nightmares about trying to move over a crater and suffering -2 to movement penalty, and then another -2 when trying to charge off of it. stupidity defined
Off topic for a minute-TIDE OF MUSCLE- is one of the best stratagems we have for core units, it flies under the radar but it is very useful.

in theory you could have a deffdread moving at 10" with Stompamatic Pistons + evil sons, with advance of 2+d6 = possible advance move of 18"
But this would only be for 1 model as kustom jobs can only go on 1 model and you would lose BIG KRUMPAZ as you can't mix kustom jobs and specialist mobs.

Teleporting them with big BIG KRUMPAZ is the only option in my mind

well, dont position him behind a crater? like i said... put him in the middle, right where you DP ends, run him up, you now have a cheapo model with T7 8W's and a 3+ save in the middle of the board (with luck he rolled a 4+ and is now sitting on an objective). you dont care, but the opponent does. thanks to ramshackle, it can only be reliably destroyed by stuff that would instead go into your jets, buggies or trukks (important things)

dont teleport him, dont spent more CP or points... dont rely on the dread. just put it out there. thats the only way i can see to make him work (in a semi-competitive way). else you will always have better options.

Jidmah - wait wait wait - MA Big Mek from Trukboyz trukk? This is legal? I have in my mind that it switched trukk and boyz Clan keyword to Trukkboyz so MA Big Mek cannot jump on.

Anyways all what you say is right. I just didn ´ t want to taky another transport just becuse of some Big Mek, so paing for such loadout was paing for something short ranged stucked in by deploy. But if I can put him in my trukkboyz!!!

Specialist mobs and transports rules are messy, they don't work outside home rules now. From what we know it's entirely possible that GW will fix the issue by changing the transports datasheets by adding "or SPECIALIST MOB" near <Klan>. Like they did with FLASH GITZ. In my opinion it's also the easiest way to fix it and what we'll likely get when the appropriate round of FAQ comes.

In that case that <Klan> big mek and trukk boyz could share the same transport.

Gonna try a mixed list tomorrow, any thoughts?




Could make it 1 x 10 Flash Gits to use Showoffs but I like the flexibility with 2 Trukks
Maybe just make it 1-2 x 10 Grot total for some extra Flash Gits but I want some options for screening and actions.

Otherwise I could add some Meganobs instead of the Flash Gits as melee counter but I'm not sure about that one.
Another option would be Mek Guns to trigger Freebooters but I don't want to make bring it down to easy and my deployment will already be crowded.

Might change 1 Dakkajet for a Wazbom Blastajet, that's some neat dakka against them Beakies.

Will probably face some kind of Marines btw.

 Tomsug wrote:
Jidmah - wait wait wait - MA Big Mek from Trukboyz trukk? This is legal? I have in my mind that it switched trukk and boyz Clan keyword to Trukkboyz so MA Big Mek cannot jump on.

Anyways all what you say is right. I just didn ´ t want to taky another transport just becuse of some Big Mek, so paing for such loadout was paing for something short ranged stucked in by deploy. But if I can put him in my trukkboyz!!!

RAW trukkboyz can't enter a trukk as obviously intended. Just waiting on the 2 week faq.

 Tomsug wrote:
Jidmah - wait wait wait - MA Big Mek from Trukboyz trukk? This is legal? I have in my mind that it switched trukk and boyz Clan keyword to Trukkboyz so MA Big Mek cannot jump on.

Anyways all what you say is right. I just didn ´ t want to taky another transport just becuse of some Big Mek, so paing for such loadout was paing for something short ranged stucked in by deploy. But if I can put him in my trukkboyz!!!

Yeah, just the unit of boyz gets changed. I usually deploy him within embarkment range of the trukk and koptas around him. If I don't get T1, I dump 4CP into smoke cloud and KFF to reduce enemy shooting as much as possible. Afterwards, he hops into the trukk with the boyz and drives around to kill characters. If you keep the trukk near ruins, you can also disembark him into the ruin's top floor (trukk has no base, so you can measure from the top) when the trukk gets blown and continue to annoy the feth out of your opponent with him from there, now benefiting from +1 armor.

 Blackie wrote:
Specialist mobs and transports rules are messy, they don't work outside home rules now. From what we know it's entirely possible that GW will fix the issue by changing the transports datasheets by adding "or SPECIALIST MOB" near <Klan>. Like they did with FLASH GITZ. In my opinion it's also the easiest way to fix it and what we'll likely get when the appropriate round of FAQ comes.

In that case that <Klan> big mek and trukk boyz could share the same transport.

Flash gits have a clan now, so the exception isn't really needed. The minimal effort to fix this is replacing "FLASH GITZ" in all transports with "Specialist Ladz", so that is how I play it. Up till now all my opponents agreed without any resistance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grotrebel wrote:
Gonna try a mixed list tomorrow, any thoughts?

Freeboota Outrider:

Spoiler:

Trike (Junkboss & Badskull Banner)
3 x 1 Scrapjet
2 x 2 Squigbuggy
1 Nitro Squigbuggy
2 x 10 Grot
2 Dakkajets (one with more Dakka)
2 x 5 Flash Gits
2 Trukks

Death Skull Patrol:

MA Mek (Opportunist & Shiny Shoota)
10 Grot
2 x 5 Kommandos
2 x 5 Stormboys

Could make it 1 x 10 Flash Gits to use Showoffs but I like the flexibility with 2 Trukks
Maybe just make it 1-2 x 10 Grot total for some extra Flash Gits but I want some options for screening and actions.

Otherwise I could add some Meganobs instead of the Flash Gits as melee counter but I'm not sure about that one.
Another option would be Mek Guns to trigger Freebooters but I don't want to make bring it down to easy and my deployment will already be crowded.

Might change 1 Dakkajet for a Wazbom Blastajet, that's some neat dakka against them Beakies.

Will probably face some kind of Marines btw.

Lists must be in spoilers

That said, I don't see a reason to run those two extra units of gretchin. Most missions have just one objective you need to protect with a troops unit, and more often than not a squig buggy can just sit on an objective to hold it - it won't do a worse job than gretchin anyways. I'd just drop them both for a unit that actually does something. You outrider has open fast attack slots, just pick your favorite unit and play that instead.

I thought they might be useful for scrambling / octarius data and help with screening, but yeah I'll try without.
My outrider is full though with 3 x 1 Scrapjet, 2 x 2 & 1 x 1 Squigbuggy.

But I guess I will go for Dakkajet + Wazbom then and take a few more Flash Gitz with the leftover points.

RedNoak wrote:

 kingbbobb wrote:

i would never try and walk a deff dread, i still have nightmares about trying to move over a crater and suffering -2 to movement penalty, and then another -2 when trying to charge off of it. stupidity defined
Off topic for a minute-TIDE OF MUSCLE- is one of the best stratagems we have for core units, it flies under the radar but it is very useful.

in theory you could have a deffdread moving at 10" with Stompamatic Pistons + evil sons, with advance of 2+d6 = possible advance move of 18"
But this would only be for 1 model as kustom jobs can only go on 1 model and you would lose BIG KRUMPAZ as you can't mix kustom jobs and specialist mobs.

Teleporting them with big BIG KRUMPAZ is the only option in my mind

well, dont position him behind a crater? like i said... put him in the middle, right where you DP ends, run him up, you now have a cheapo model with T7 8W's and a 3+ save in the middle of the board (with luck he rolled a 4+ and is now sitting on an objective). you dont care, but the opponent does. thanks to ramshackle, it can only be reliably destroyed by stuff that would instead go into your jets, buggies or trukks (important things)

dont teleport him, dont spent more CP or points... dont rely on the dread. just put it out there. thats the only way i can see to make him work (in a semi-competitive way). else you will always have better options.

there were 2 craters in the centre north and south of a central objective, his units could fly and were on the objective, it was go through or go home.
in the end i didn't go through and went home lol XD

 Tomsug wrote:
Well, Goonhammer drops two interesitng articles for us:
https://www.goonhammer.com/nick-nanavati-talks-about-playing-orks-with-the-new-codex/

About this link at page 10, I wanted to say something.

Today i'm a bit polemicus and i need a choppa on my face to stop my brain

I think... why should a player (of wathever faction) have to read or follow comments of an article talkin about a NOT LEGAL list?

Please Bros, stop making plans about TRUKK and TrukkBOYZ.We need now 2 detachments to make 1 Trukk+TrukkBoyz and for sure if you don't have a third detachment you cannot make a Trukk + TBoyz + TWarboss.
I also want a tryade of them (like every Ork of galaxy) but is not possibile with actual rules.

SO why talking about an illegal thing? Don't understand how they permit this lists in official tournaments.



I also want to ask about brothers who put HEavyWeaponz like FlashGitz or TankBustas in Tellyporta/ Reserve.
In the turn they come in, they count as MOVED so they take -1 Hit and can't justify the high price
also cause our elite troups Come, Do and become dead.

The only idea I have to try, after some games, is to use BadMoonz and deploy our RocketLaunchers behind a Trukk/BW/Naut . So no One can see them at first turn, and they try to fire someone at 30" when the vehicle is moving.

In the list I'm making I'm full of light/heavy antyinfantry but wanted to insert at least 8/10 Tanka and/or 2/3 KMK Gunz or something against AntiTank.

What do you use against T8 ? (talking about firing units).
which combination of +/- 150 points is better for you? Any suggestionz?

What about your exp. in latest game with this units?

Thanks BOYz!

 OddGoblin wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Well, Goonhammer drops two interesitng articles for us:
https://www.goonhammer.com/nick-nanavati-talks-about-playing-orks-with-the-new-codex/

About this link at page 10, I wanted to say something.

Today i'm a bit polemicus and i need a choppa on my face to stop my brain

I think... why should a player (of wathever faction) have to read or follow comments of an article talkin about a NOT LEGAL list?

Please Bros, stop making plans about TRUKK and TrukkBOYZ.We need now 2 detachments to make 1 Trukk+TrukkBoyz and for sure if you don't have a third detachment you cannot make a Trukk + TBoyz + TWarboss.
I also want a tryade of them (like every Ork of galaxy) but is not possibile with actual rules.

SO why talking about an illegal thing? Don't understand how they permit this lists in official tournaments.



I also want to ask about brothers who put HEavyWeaponz like FlashGitz or TankBustas in Tellyporta/ Reserve.
In the turn they come in, they count as MOVED so they take -1 Hit and can't justify the high price
also cause our elite troups Come, Do and become dead.

The only idea I have to try, after some games, is to use BadMoonz and deploy our RocketLaunchers behind a Trukk/BW/Naut . So no One can see them at first turn, and they try to fire someone at 30" when the vehicle is moving.

In the list I'm making I'm full of light/heavy antyinfantry but wanted to insert at least 8/10 Tanka and/or 2/3 KMK Gunz or something against AntiTank.

What do you use against T8 ? (talking about firing units).
which combination of +/- 150 points is better for you? Any suggestionz?

What about your exp. in latest game with this units?

Thanks BOYz!

Why use the codex at all, if that's the attitude you're taking? It's one of the worst edited codexes they've released since 8e Space Wolves, so many blatantly broken or obviously not RAI rules interactions. Your statement about Trukks and detachments is nonsensical even from your own standpoint - you cannot make Trukkboyz getting into a Trukk legal RAW no matter how many detachments you use because Trukks aren't one of the three units you can nominate to be a Trukkboyz specialist mob. This broken interaction is extremely well known by now, any tournament allowing the new book will address it in favor of the obvious RAI, though the mileage for transports and other specialist mob infantry may vary.

I fully understand OddGoblins feeling. I feel little bit the same. I have a tournament on 18.9. with the new dex already and I have to house rule with the organisers pretty crucial questions like Spec. Gitz vs Transport etc, or even fair dimensions and base sizes of Squigosaurs, Killrigs etc. Well I can kitbash anything but I need to know the base size at least…

And I have to accept that it is almost sure, my army will be invalid after FAQ. Tournament will be on Sunday, faq comes the day before and I gonnna rework my list overnight. Perfect…..

 Tomsug wrote:
I fully understand OddGoblins feeling. I feel little bit the same. I have a tournament on 18.9. with the new dex already and I have to house rule with the organisers pretty crucial questions like Spec. Gitz vs Transport etc, or even fair dimensions and base sizes of Squigosaurs, Killrigs etc. Well I can kitbash anything but I need to know the base size at least…

And I have to accept that it is almost sure, my army will be invalid after FAQ. Tournament will be on Sunday, faq comes the day before and I gonnna rework my list overnight. Perfect…..

I don't think too much will change personally. It's a lot of semantics and things that are clearly supposed to be one way, but have been written by someone that copy/pasted stuff from the old book to save time and didn't proof read it.

 OddGoblin wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Well, Goonhammer drops two interesitng articles for us:
https://www.goonhammer.com/nick-nanavati-talks-about-playing-orks-with-the-new-codex/

About this link at page 10, I wanted to say something.

Today i'm a bit polemicus and i need a choppa on my face to stop my brain

I think... why should a player (of wathever faction) have to read or follow comments of an article talkin about a NOT LEGAL list?

Please Bros, stop making plans about TRUKK and TrukkBOYZ.We need now 2 detachments to make 1 Trukk+TrukkBoyz and for sure if you don't have a third detachment you cannot make a Trukk + TBoyz + TWarboss.
I also want a tryade of them (like every Ork of galaxy) but is not possibile with actual rules.

SO why talking about an illegal thing? Don't understand how they permit this lists in official tournaments.

Because it's an obvious error in the book. You cannot make trukks "trukkboyz" so going by pure RAW you can never have trukkboyz in trukks.

The intent is 100% clear, which is why TOs and other people are allowing this.

I also want to ask about brothers who put HEavyWeaponz like FlashGitz or TankBustas in Tellyporta/ Reserve.
In the turn they come in, they count as MOVED so they take -1 Hit and can't justify the high price
also cause our elite troups Come, Do and become dead.

I don't think anyone really does this. I wouldn't pay too much attention to the goonhammer articles, they clearly aren't very well versed in regards to orks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tomsug wrote:
I fully understand OddGoblins feeling. I feel little bit the same. I have a tournament on 18.9. with the new dex already and I have to house rule with the organisers pretty crucial questions like Spec. Gitz vs Transport etc, or even fair dimensions and base sizes of Squigosaurs, Killrigs etc. Well I can kitbash anything but I need to know the base size at least…

And I have to accept that it is almost sure, my army will be invalid after FAQ. Tournament will be on Sunday, faq comes the day before and I gonnna rework my list overnight. Perfect…..

Normally tournaments should have a rules cut-off where they don't accept new stuff GW shells out.

 Jidmah wrote:


Flash gits have a clan now, so the exception isn't really needed. The minimal effort to fix this is replacing "FLASH GITZ" in all transports with "Specialist Ladz", so that is how I play it. Up till now all my opponents agreed without any resistance.

The FLASH GITZ exception is there only to let Badrukk ride in a trukk with non Freebooters models. He can be taken in any klan but couldn't ride in a non Freebooters transport without the exception.

 Blackie wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:


Flash gits have a clan now, so the exception isn't really needed. The minimal effort to fix this is replacing "FLASH GITZ" in all transports with "Specialist Ladz", so that is how I play it. Up till now all my opponents agreed without any resistance.

The FLASH GITZ exception is there only to let Badrukk ride in a trukk with non Freebooters models. He can be taken in any klan but couldn't ride in a non Freebooters transport without the exception.

He is a specialist lad, so my fix would still keep that intact. It's also not a very solid argument, since Mad Doc Grotznik or Zodgrod can also be taken by any clan, but cannot ride their transports.

 Blackie wrote:


Kommandos are awesome but with rule of three maxing them out (3x10) is something like 350 points at most. Add 3x1 Mek gunz, that's another 135 points for a grand total of 450-500 points. For 2000 points lists. Those units fill up Elite and Heavy Support slots. For these reasons they really don't compete with buggies. Even if 3x trukk boyz units join the lot there's still half budget available. 3 scrapjets are 270 points.

Vehicles based lists are getting good results in competitive games, it's not like we just have infantry spam that relies on alpha strike at the moment.

I agree, we aren't relying on Infantry alpha strike, but hte same lists that will do well against Drukhari will also do well against buggy spam. Both feature T6 vehicle spam. With that in mind, I like being counter-meta and that is why I love my Alpha strike list. And its not just 350pts of Kommandos and some mek gunz. Here is my current competitive list which has yet to lose.



3 Goff patrol Detachments. You can mix and match WL traits, relics etc but here is the gist.

Warboss in Mega Armor, Da Krushin Armor, Might is Right.

Trukk Boyz x10 (Nob with 2 Choppas)

Kommandos x 10 (Nob with PK) Distraction Grot and Bomb Squig.
Kommandos x 10 (Nob with PK) Distraction Grot and Bomb Squig.

Deff Koptas x3
Deff Koptas x3

Trukk

Patrol #2
Warboss, Headwhoppa, Kombi Skorcha, Propa killy.

Trukk Boyz x 10 (nob with 2x choppas)

Kommandos x 10 (Nob with PK) Distraction Grot and Bomb Squig.

Stormboyz x 10 (Nob)
Stormboyz x 10 (Nob)

Mek Gun(s) 2x KMK

Trukk

Patrol #3
Warboss BBK, Kombi Skorcha, PK, Supa Cybork.

Trukk Boyz x 10 (Nob w/2xChoppas)

Stormboyz x 10 (nob)

Mek Gun(s) 2x KMK
Mek Gun 1x KMK

Trukk

Total is 2,000 Points.

Turn 1 you have massive alpha strike potential in 3x Trukk Boyz (warboss in each trukk as well) 3x Kommandos, 3x Stormboyz and 6x Deff Koptas. While your fast units all bum rush forward your KMKs do whatever they can do inflict dmg on the harder targets that need to die while the Kommandos release their Bomb Squigz. You then get to charge in with 30 Trukk Boyz(3xNobz), 30 Stormboyz (3xNobz), 30 Kommandos (3x Nobz with PK) and possibly 6x Deff Koptas if you don't need their rokkitz shooting. And during the WAAAAGH turn, those DeffKoptas get 9 attacks EACH!

Trukk Boyz: Threat range of 23-38. 12 Trukk Movement, 3 disembark, 5 Move, D6 advance and 2D6 charge

Kommandos: Threat Range of wherever the enemy deploys, They can theoretically cover the vast majority of the entire board. 9' from Deployment, 6 movement, D6 advance and 2D6 Charge.

Stormboyz: 20-30' threat range. 12' movement, 6' advance and 2D6 charge.

Deff Koptas: 22-32 Threat Range. 14' movement, 6 advance and 2D6 charge.

 Grotrebel wrote:
Gonna try a mixed list tomorrow, any thoughts?

Spoiler:

Freeboota Outrider:

Trike (Junkboss & Badskull Banner)
3 x 1 Scrapjet
2 x 2 Squigbuggy
1 Nitro Squigbuggy
2 x 10 Grot
2 Dakkajets (one with more Dakka)
2 x 5 Flash Gits
2 Trukks

Death Skull Patrol:

MA Mek (Opportunist & Shiny Shoota)
10 Grot
2 x 5 Kommandos
2 x 5 Stormboys

Could make it 1 x 10 Flash Gits to use Showoffs but I like the flexibility with 2 Trukks
Maybe just make it 1-2 x 10 Grot total for some extra Flash Gits but I want some options for screening and actions.

Otherwise I could add some Meganobs instead of the Flash Gits as melee counter but I'm not sure about that one.
Another option would be Mek Guns to trigger Freebooters but I don't want to make bring it down to easy and my deployment will already be crowded.

Might change 1 Dakkajet for a Wazbom Blastajet, that's some neat dakka against them Beakies.

Will probably face some kind of Marines btw.

Flash gitz can't use their shoot twice strat while embarked, so two squads of 5 are probably better than one huge target of 10. I really hate the awkward position flash gitz are in right now. Too squishy to be footslogging, can't use their cool strat or get badrukks aura while embarked, can't disembark or tellyport in without killing their BS, too short range to not move closer first turn. They're so much fun when you can actually get them to shoot properly, but its not easy to do.

That is a list very much in your style

What is Warboss BBK?

BBK = Brutal But Kunnin'

Participated in a 500 pt tourney.
Unfortunately, none of my new models are ready yet, so, no buggies. This means thet blood axes have to wait a bit.

Goffs:
Biker boss (4++, killa klaw)
Megamek (-1 to wound, shiny shoots, tellyporta)
10 grots
3 koptas (rokkits)
Trukk (5++)

We played incursion.

1st game vs imperial fists:
Librarian
5 intercessors
3 eradicators
Redeemer (13-wound dread with super plazma)

24" Between deployment zones, mission: 15vp if >=75% units survive, 10 if >=50%, 5 if >=25%.

The opponent hid his librarian and intercessors behind a large ruin on one flank, dread and eradicators were behind cover but not compleyely out of Los.
I hid most units but there was no place to hide a trukk and mek, so, mek hid behind a trukk and the trukk had to stay on a line with eradicators and dread in hopes of 1st turn.

The opponent went 1st instead. He moved intercessors and librarian forward, shot at koptas dealing 2 wounds and smiled a trukk for 1. Dread advanced from behind a ruin but didn't shoot as he decided eradicators would deal with a trukk. They shot at a trukk and rolled a bunch of 2s for to-hits and to-wounds. 5++ also helped. Trukk suffered no wounds from meltas!

Orks moved boss closer to dread, mek jumped inside a lucky trukk and rolled towards eradicators and dread. Koptas screened boss and shot dread but only dealt 2 damage. Grots ran on a point. Mek killed 2 eradicators and the last one remained with a single wound.

Marines shot down 2 koptas with -1 to hit aura (2cp) and some grots. But this were insanely heroic grots who knew no fear and passed ld check perfectly! Eradicators wiffed again, but Dread charged and killed a trukk with his Damage 3+d3 s12 fist. Mek disembarked unharmed.

Boss called mellee Waaaaagh. Last kopta moved towards intercessors, shot down 1, dealt a couple mw to another 1 and killed a 3-d one in mellee, so, only 2 remained - they dealt a wound in return. Mek shot his shiny shoota at an eradicator but wiffed horribly, however he dealt 2 more wounds to a dread with his tellyporta. Boss did nothing with shooting but together with mek, they barely managed to finish dread off - he even spent his last cp to re-roll a save from mek's klaw but, luckilly for orks, failed.

Next turn marine failed to kill boss with his librarian and eradicator while orks finished them off to the last.

15-5 - orks win.

Next game was vs tau:
Fire blade with marker
5 fire warriors
2 markers
4 stealth suits with s5 ap1 guns with a bunch of shots
Riptide with gatling and meltas

24 deployment once again and 6(!) Objectives. You could only get VP if you score at least 2. Plus a couple extra VP for scoring objectives within the opponent's deployment zone. The map was very scarce with blos but had a -1 to-hit forest and a long-ass wall all across the board with just 2 small gates. It looked awesome but happened to be quite problematic for my trukk as it didn't fit through the gates.

Opponent placed his riptide behind blos and the rest behind a forest (as there was simply nowhere else to hide the troops). Orks placed boss and trukk with mek behind blos and grots behind a small container - luckilly, they're tiny enough to remain out of sight. Koptas went for a deepstrike.

Opponent got 1st turn. So, tau just shifted towards points and advanced stealth suits on a mid board point. No shooting.

Boss called mellee WAAAAGH and went on for some stealth suit crumpin'. Mek disembarked on a point and trukk rolled on another one closer to riptide. Shooting from boss and trukk only killed 1 fire warrior - thanks to -1 to hit. Boss made the charge but even with 6 attacks, with 2+ to hit/to wound rolled 3 ones to-hit and 1 to-wounds, killing only 2 stealth suits.

Stealth suits fell back and boss evaporated from fire warrior rifles and riptide's gatling, rolling piss poorly for his 4++. Trukk, however, received no wounds from 2 meltas.

Luckilly, stealth suits, not having believed their luck, fell away a bit too far leaving just enough space for koptas to ds within 9 of fire watriors, fire blade and markers. Orks performed a cunning maneouvre running grots towards a point where mek was standing. The opponent even asked: "Ok, but why?" - when I cheered for a 10" grot advance. Than mek moved towards a trukk, embarked and it moved on the spot where grots uned to be. And now he finally got the point of this maneouvre. As mek was now shooting from a trukk, he could measure from Trump's Hull - and it was just enough to see over a wall. And he happened to get within 12" Of the stealth suits. So, he helped out koptas and they finished the suits off. Now koptas could focus on fire warriors. Ramming speed and they went all the way engaging warriors, fire blade and even dealing 2 me to drones. They killed everything and the opponent had only riptide left and no way to score points.

The rest of the game was just orks outscoring a single riptide with a trukk eventually tying it down in mellee.

20-0 orks win.

3d game was vs vostroyan ig.

Commander with extra orders on 4+
Tank commander in a demolisher with Laz Cannon and -1 damage.
Master of ordnance (one-use d6 basylisk shots hitting on 3+ that turn into 6 shots hitting on 2s for 2 cp - all for just 25 or so pts)
3*10 ig with plazma
5 scions with lazguns and a free plazma pistol

We finally got 18" Between deployment zones and a mission to score midfield. Ig spread across the board screening his all mighty demolisher. Orks had to be cunning once again - we needed to see where he'd place his demolisher, thus, had to maximize our drops, so, we had to place the mek and grots separately from a trukk once again. This helped us find out the frightening tank's position and hide everything from it but not from master of ordnance - that could see koptas.

Orks desperately needed 1st turn.
...
And the opponent got 1st turn yet again. He occupied all 3 mid board objectives with advancing troops. Master of ordnance shot his 2+ hitting 6-shot personal basylisk at koptas, hit 5 times but than only got 2 wounds through resulting in 3 damage and... No dead koptas!

Orks called waaagh, rolled forward, koptas and mek shot down a squad of ig, halved another one. The plan for boss and trukk was more complicated - the trukk had to use ramming speed to charge a further squad - the path to which got cleared with shooting while boss needed to kill 5 scions and consolidste behind a trukk to avoid demolisher's shooting and stomp it good turn 2. However, trukk + boss didn't manage to kill a single scion with 15 s5 shots - 3+ armor in cover saved them. And when boss charged, he rolled a ton of 1s once again and only killed 2 scions with his 6 attacks. 2d game in a row I wish I'd taken brutal but kunning instead of 4++. However, trukk and koptas made it into combat - koptas killed all 10 ig and hid behind blos. Trukk dealt only 1 mw and failed to kill anything in mellee. Ig consolidated and still got in a mid board point.

So, ig got maximum amount of VP at the start of wd turn which was 17 (15 main +2 secondary). Scions fell back from boss, ig fell back from a trukk closer to grots, tank moved to get a better view of the boss and trukk. Commander went on and on issuing orders rolling 5 4+ in a row, so the falling back troops could now shoot at grots killing 6 - luckilly, we're t3 now, phew! 2 more ram away, 2 grots remained. Tank vaporized boss with it's 2d6 demolisher shots hitting on 2s, however, trukk suffered no wounds from a lazcannon.

In return, mek disembarked from a trukk and moved between demolisher and scions, koptas swooped towards remaining guards and characters, trukk rolled towards demolisher. Shooting saw guards and scions popping from kopta rokkits and shiny shoots rounds, characters got torn by spinning kopta blades. Trukk charged demolisher, which rolled 12 overwatch shots hitting on 5s (we forgot it can only shoot 1d6 in overwatch) which ended up with 2 wounds but thanks to 5++ with command re-roll, only 1 went through, it dealt 5 damage, though. Mek followed the trukk's lead and made it into combat, locking down demolisher from another side, so, it had nowhere to fall back. The opponent surrendered.

20-0 orks win.

Taking 1st place. Imperial fists (from our 1st game) took 2d place and ig (from our 3d game) took 3d place.

Here are some thoughts:
- Koptas are better than I had anticipated. They are expensive but are really flexible and fast. They can deal with light infantry - especially if you run mellee waagh lists. To be honest, I think they are even better this way. Rokkits are nice but quite unreliable whereas 9 s5-6 ap1 attacks are great on a 14" Movement unit with fly.
- Biker boss wiffed a lot. I'm going for brutal but kunning the moment he finally receives his 5++. 4++ seems nice on paper but it's so swingy. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it does nothing at all - like my 2d and 3d game. He does lack innate -1 to hit and extra wounds. Let's hope he doesn't loose pk - cause if he does, there he goes on a shelf.
- Megamek with dss and tellyporta - he's not that amazing w/o +1 to hit but a decent unit still. Trukk is really great for him. Even rolling around on his own - they're just so versatile together.
- Forktress trukk. 90 pt is stiff. But it did work! Well, the opponent also wiffed all the meltas that shot at it - yeah that helped too. Anywayz, it's a decent upgrade for when you got all you need all ready. The trukk + megamek + grots combo. Oh, I really like it. And don't forget, you can start on board and than jump right in. It adds even more deployment mind tricks.
- Grots. They win you games.

Madjob wrote:

 OddGoblin wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Well, Goonhammer drops two interesitng articles for us:
https://www.goonhammer.com/nick-nanavati-talks-about-playing-orks-with-the-new-codex/

About this link at page 10, I wanted to say something.

Today i'm a bit polemicus and i need a choppa on my face to stop my brain

...
Thanks BOYz!

Your statement about Trukks and detachments is nonsensical even from your own standpoint - you cannot make Trukkboyz getting into a Trukk legal RAW no matter how many detachments you use because Trukks aren't one of the three units you can nominate to be a Trukkboyz specialist mob. This broken interaction is extremely well known by now, any tournament allowing the new book will address it in favor of the obvious RAI, though the mileage for transports and other specialist mob infantry may vary.

oH MY GOrK! That's True and this is crazy... I didn't notice it... but for now you need at least 2 detach as they wrote the codex..right?
We wait for FAQ . This is cause GW knows we Love to make lists every day

Afrodactyl wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
I fully understand OddGoblins feeling. I feel little bit the same. I have a tournament on 18.9. with the new dex already and I have to house rule with the organisers pretty crucial questions like Spec. Gitz vs Transport etc, or even fair dimensions and base sizes of Squigosaurs, Killrigs etc. Well I can kitbash anything but I need to know the base size at least…

And I have to accept that it is almost sure, my army will be invalid after FAQ. Tournament will be on Sunday, faq comes the day before and I gonnna rework my list overnight. Perfect…..

I don't think too much will change personally. It's a lot of semantics and things that are clearly supposed to be one way, but have been written by someone that copy/pasted stuff from the old book to save time and didn't proof read it.

Someone told it was written by an Ork Player Crazy as a Squig for sure

Jidmah wrote:

 OddGoblin wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Well, Goonhammer drops two interesitng articles for us:
https://www.goonhammer.com/nick-nanavati-talks-about-playing-orks-with-the-new-codex/

Because it's an obvious error in the book. You cannot make trukks "trukkboyz" so going by pure RAW you can never have trukkboyz in trukks.

The intent is 100% clear, which is why TOs and other people are allowing this.

Yes for sure! Didn't noticed this point about the trukk model... Zorry Guyz

I also want to ask about brothers who put HEavyWeaponz like FlashGitz or TankBustas in Tellyporta/ Reserve.
In the turn they come in, they count as MOVED so they take -1 Hit and can't justify the high price
also cause our elite troups Come, Do and become dead.

I don't think anyone really does this. I wouldn't pay too much attention to the goonhammer articles, they clearly aren't very well versed in regards to orks.

I go to goonhammer cause I like the thought of other players, is the same reason why I am here. It's not a Bible for sure but some points of view

What do people not do? I don't understand if you're talking about the -1 to hit after tellyport deploy of HEAVY weaponz troops.
Tnx Boss

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tomsug wrote:
I fully understand OddGoblins feeling. I feel little bit the same. I have a tournament on 18.9. with the new dex already and I have to house rule with the organisers pretty crucial questions like Spec. Gitz vs Transport etc, or even fair dimensions and base sizes of Squigosaurs, Killrigs etc. Well I can kitbash anything but I need to know the base size at least…

And I have to accept that it is almost sure, my army will be invalid after FAQ. Tournament will be on Sunday, faq comes the day before and I gonnna rework my list overnight. Perfect…..

Normally tournaments should have a rules cut-off where they don't accept new stuff GW shells out.

 koooaei wrote:

Here are some thoughts:
- Koptas are better than I had anticipated. They are expensive but are really flexible and fast. They can deal with light infantry - especially if you run mellee waagh lists. To be honest, I think they are even better this way. Rokkits are nice but quite unreliable whereas 9 s5-6 ap1 attacks are great on a 14" Movement unit with fly.
- Biker boss wiffed a lot. I'm going for brutal but kunning the moment he finally receives his 5++. 4++ seems nice on paper but it's so swingy. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it does nothing at all - like my 2d and 3d game. He does lack innate -1 to hit and extra wounds. Let's hope he doesn't loose pk - cause if he does, there he goes on a shelf.
- Megamek with dss and tellyporta - he's not that amazing w/o +1 to hit but a decent unit still. Trukk is really great for him. Even rolling around on his own - they're just so versatile together.
- Forktress trukk. 90 pt is stiff. But it did work! Well, the opponent also wiffed all the meltas that shot at it - yeah that helped too. Anywayz, it's a decent upgrade for when you got all you need all ready. The trukk + megamek + grots combo. Oh, I really like it. And don't forget, you can start on board and than jump right in. It adds even more deployment mind tricks.
- Grots. They win you games.

-i dismissed koptas early on for being expensive but i will keep an eye on them, i have heard others say the same thing that they are good in melee and versatile in movement, but the problem i have with them is if the enemy infantry is in a ruin the kopta can't get at them. but stormboys can
-FW model yet to be updated, all speculation
-i had a feeling that freeboter +1 to hit would be needed to get the best out of this model
-i have serious doubts it will hold out next time you play
-...Grots....hmmm....

Okay, so this is a stupid question and is purely for the meme. But what says a building is immobile? The mv stat of - is what stops you from moving, advancing and charging right?

So... hear me out. Squighide tires on a boss bunker.

Also keen to see the actual size of the things.

Null is not the same as 0.

So you can’t add 3” to null to get a real move value.

Damn, that's a fair point. I liked the idea of my bunker on wheels. Would have been fun to model.

There also is an explicit statement somewhere in a recent FAQ that units with movement of "-" can't ever move for any reason.

IF GW ends up FAQing the modifier question in favour of trukkboyz and passengers in general (+1 to hit and -1ap gets transfered to infantry inside), what shooty units you’d like to try out if any? I think tankbustas would be rather decent, maybe Lootas too. I’d also be eager to try out Combi-Skorcha nobs, as ap-2 skorchas would wreck havoc on my tables.

Btw, where does the 3" Limitation for placing fortifications come from? Iirc it's just a recomendadion - not a rule.

 koooaei wrote:
Btw, where does the 3" Limitation for placing fortifications come from? Iirc it's just a recomendadion - not a rule.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/lKo58OjfYV7Ysecp.pdf

Page 3, bottom left.

-i dismissed koptas early on for being expensive but i will keep an eye on them, i have heard others say the same thing that they are good in melee and versatile in movement, but the problem i have with them is if the enemy infantry is in a ruin the kopta can't get at them. but stormboys can

I really rate koptas at the moment. I'd put them up there with warbikers but an anti heavy infantry/vehicle choice to the warbikers anti infantry.

I did however drop down from five to three for testing. Five has been absolutely nuking everything it touches, but there's also been a lot of wasted attacks/shots.

Aren't you having trouble with morale?

In one of my games I had an entire unit of three go poof by just a single one dying (6 for morale, 2 for attrition), I'd assume running five would make this problem even worse.

If (when ?) scrapjets go up in points, I might free some of my 10 koptas from their box so they can see play. But between a 55 point kopta and a 90 point scrapjet, my choice is easy to make.

Once the box drops we will finally know what base the new koptas have, won't we ?

Kopta's main advantage over buggies are m14, fly and reliable anti-infantry mellee. Buggies are tougher, shootier, but are less flexible and harder to use to full potential after hiding behind blos - other than squigbuggies, of course.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kopta's also fit well in a goff detachment.

Koptas with rokkits are 50 though, and two at 100 compare rather well to a scrapjet at 90.

The base seems to be the new biker base.

They also have native deep strike.

 Jidmah wrote:

The base seems to be the new biker base.

Spoiler:

Info about bases is already on GW pages.

Koptas are 75mm round base.
Outriders are 90mm round base
Jackals are 60mm round base.

 AarresaariAarre wrote:
IF GW ends up FAQing the modifier question in favour of trukkboyz and passengers in general (+1 to hit and -1ap gets transfered to infantry inside), what shooty units you’d like to try out if any? I think tankbustas would be rather decent, maybe Lootas too. I’d also be eager to try out Combi-Skorcha nobs, as ap-2 skorchas would wreck havoc on my tables.

I still don't see a reason for shooty units in a trukk. 70pts for what amounts to a transport/ablative wounds isn't that great. The Drukhari's transports, while more expensive, put ours to shame.

I'm still going to get another trukk mind you, but that is for Trukk Boy purposes not for shooting out of them.

Yep, oval 75mm is the same base that ork warbikers currently have.

sheesh i wonder when the FAQs will drop. probably not gonna buy any models untill i know what works and how.

 Jidmah wrote:
Aren't you having trouble with morale?

In one of my games I had an entire unit of three go poof by just a single one dying (6 for morale, 2 for attrition), I'd assume running five would make this problem even worse.

I'd been heavily abusing the innate deep strike, keeping them off field and chucking them down next to a juicy target that put itself somewhere interesting while trying to avoid my scrapjets, nuking it, and then going off to bully units off of objectives or spook backline units. The scrapjets then take over the heavy lifting for anti armour duties.

At no point were they ever really exposed to anything likely to kill them other than their initial target. I did take some casualties now and then but I rolled well on my LD tests so it wasn't too bad, but I can definitely see how morale is potentially crippling for them.

That's part of what informed the change to three for me. Potentially devastating morale issues, overkilling their targets and wasting potential, and being a fair chunk of points for wiping something out and being a bully unit.

A unit of three with a mob of bikers is definitely seeming more efficient at the moment. Still being a good unit for hunting armour and bullying smaller units, and having the support from the weight of fire the bikers offer, with even more melee potential for more or less the same points.

Yeah, it's a great unit at 3 despite the morale issue, I agree. I was just wondering about how units of 5 were working out for you.

I used a squad of 5 twice and ran them as Evil Sunz for their strategem to keep them safe.
Worked OK but in my second game terrain was bad so I had trouble getting them out of LOS.

Also I'm having mixed results with blowing 4 CP for Cloud of Smoke & Forcefield Boosta and I'm leaning more and more into strategic reserves in my Dakka Lists.

 Grotrebel wrote:
I used a squad of 5 twice and ran them as Evil Sunz for their strategem to keep them safe.
Worked OK but in my second game terrain was bad so I had trouble getting them out of LOS.

Also I'm having mixed results with blowing 4 CP for Cloud of Smoke & Forcefield Boosta and I'm leaning more and more into strategic reserves in my Dakka Lists.

Well the question must be asked. What else would you spend those 4CP on? If you use strategic reserves then you're still paying some CP, and the guns that would have been targeting said units now target something else in your army. In addition the units you do put into reserves can't do anything for 1/5 of the game.

If we're talking about a vehichle heavy list you have Ramming speed, extra relics or traits and the occasional re-roll. Honestly making use of CP to increase durability and force choices on the opponent seems fairly valid.

Spending cp elsewhere is a problem for the most part I have been looking at cp rerolls, ramming speed, cloud of smoke and the Goff specific strat. Outside of that cp can be spent pregame

Unreliable but careen strat can be decent.. and if you are using burnas or occasionally Killrig you can LOL with overwatch.

But ya outside of ramming speed and cloud of smoke.. generic strats are sad.

Also building kommandos made me sad as I realized now I need to buy base extenders for all my old kommandos so they won’t be all different base sizes.

How about Painboss? Would they be a good idea in a list that intends to use Da Biggest and Da Best as a secondary? We certainly have some of the toughest and meanest HQ brawlers in the Beastboss on Squigosaur, but loosing him would be doubly bad in such a setup. Theoretically speaking, Painboss buddy gives it a bit more survivability and they aren't that bad in close combat either, but they are a pricey. What do you think? Is there other ways to make him work?

about strat, honestly, I use a lot of the Core strat: burna overwatch/reroll/auto-moral, and special mention for the Emergency disembark (deploying on an objective lol) and Cut them down (when opponent explains he can fall back and shoot his tank, and you stop him because you had 13 boys/grots engaged with it).

Depending on the clan, but you should certainly use the blood axe/evil sunz/snakebite and freebooters strats when you can.

Tankbusta bomb strat I like. Plus the bombsquig and first turn charge, that increases my kommando's chance to blow up a vehicle right off the bat.

Get stuck in Ladz: I have yet to try, but certainly gives an way for my boyz to end up scoring or contesting an objective that was like 30" away when they started the turn lol. (in average 5" move + 3" advance waagh + 7" charge + 6" pile-in carefully around the opponent unit + 6" consolidate + 3" scoring zone)

Two kopters shoot just about the same amount of rokkits a scrapjet does. They don't have any of the horde clearing capability though (I know here everyone hates big shootas but when you have 3 scrapojets shooting, they really do end up up killing stuff), but they do have a lot more mobility, and you can start them safely behind a ruin and still get them in good range. 2 kopters are lso slightly better in CC (until they drop to one of course).

The real issue I have with them is, I know that is stupid, but they really offer the volkites we see everywhere a good target, as they wound them on 3s (still ramshackle helps). Our other buggies and aircraft get wounded on 4s, which really makes a difference between survival and death

Anyway OK so 2 kopters do have a reason to exist when compared to one scrapjet, especially when you know that more than 4 scrapjets can be a pain to move around on some deploys.

Thanks for the info on the base, I will order some more 75 bases then

I guess that's a valid concern if you face voltkite spam that often.

When ordering new bases, make sure to also get some more durable stands. The bigger bases are heavier and provide more leverage, so they easily snap off the ones that came with the AOBR boxes.

 Jidmah wrote:
I guess that's a valid concern if you face voltkite spam that often.

When ordering new bases, make sure to also get some more durable stands. The bigger bases are heavier and provide more leverage, so they easily snap off the ones that came with the AOBR boxes.

Ah yes good point, but I drilled my koptas and put the regular transparent antigrav stands, which seem to be durable enough. I seem to recall that all the Black Reach stands had already snapped off when the guy (who later sold me his koptas) was playing them hah hah, even before the bigger bases

Just wondering if I'm missing something but looking at Maddok Grotsnik as cyan. Was he not already able to be taken with any clan and also heal any clan member pre new codex.

Also with "I've got a plan ladz" do not put a stompa into strategic reserve. You will not be able to deploy him fully within 6" of the board edge and therefore you will neither be able to shoot nor charge him the turn he comes in as per the GT mission pack.

Before he could heal any clan, but he would break your culture when you put him in a non-deffskull detachment. Now he can just run with a full goff horde.

Good point on the stompa

I can't seem to make Da Biggest and Da Best work in a mechanized list. I've got a perfectly killy bikerboss to do it with, but he usually isn't diving in straight away on T1, and by the time my second round of shooting is done I don't have much for him to kill that would score it.

Had any of you some success with the Deffkilla Wartrike in close combat?
Have been running him for 10+ games now for Speedwaagh but I have to say his melee output is kinda disappointing. :(
Ether he bounces off if I face good invul or armour saves, his damage becomes almost zero vs. dmg -1 or he has no good target besides chaff.

Sure he helps my vehicle heavy lists a lot with Speedwaaagh but since he deploys behind other stuff his shooting does not reach good targets and it's hard to make space early on.

Badskull Banner as Freebooter is nice though, but it's not often he can bring it to good use and survive.

Have been running him with Junkboss most of the time, but my experience was he gets ether killed anyway or anything that does not kill him would also fail to do so if he had just a 5++.
Would you guys prefer Roadkilla or Might is right?
Kinda like the idea to go for Roadkilla + Shokka Hull + Iron Gob + Ramming Speed to simply Spam MWs.

Also I'm considering to try 1 or 2 Wyrdboys. Have used him just once with the new codex but I'm kinda tempted to give him a go with Fists of Gork as he should be able to stay close enough to buff the Wartrike.
S9 or S10 as Goff might make him killy enough.


Another thing I have been thinking about for a few days is Ghazghkull.
While he got worse, can no longer be healed and is quite expensive for what he does I see some reasons to bring him.
For one mixed lists with different clan detachments are what most armies are bringing anyway and Goffs are still seeing some play - so he might just roll with it.
His big Waaagh can make our vehicle shooting quite dangerous but he would also buff all those Kommandos, Stormboys and Squig units.

You could even take him in a Death Skull or Freebooters Detachment and take a killy Goff Warboss / Trike if you feel like it.
But well, if you take Ghazzi I see no real reason not to swap the Wartrike for a Beastboss on Squiggosaurus.

Yeah the Deffkilla is an odd unit. Isn't a great duelist, can't clear out chaff, can't reliably kill vehicles and only really supports your army by letting you use the speedwaaagh. A niche buff in it's own right that depends heavily on your build.

Honestly I view him as a bully, good for moving into position and killing a handful of targets. Small MEQ troops, super light vehicles aaaand yeah. He is somewhat useful for tying down vehicles I suppose? Taking up space and blocking movement lanes.

Generally I like to give him Ard as nails and just let him go off and do his own thing, jamming up the enemy battleplan rather than contributing to your own plans.

I've only really used the wartrike to mop up units that have been battered by other units already, and to bully units that really aren't likely to do it much harm in return. And being honest I've only used Opportunist, so I can't speak for the other WL traits.

I like opportunist though, shaving wounds off of characters with shooting and then charging in to knock the last couple of wounds off is nice.

 Grotrebel wrote:

Another thing I have been thinking about for a few days is Ghazghkull.
While he got worse, can no longer be healed and is quite expensive for what he does I see some reasons to bring him.
For one mixed lists with different clan detachments are what most armies are bringing anyway and Goffs are still seeing some play - so he might just roll with it.
His big Waaagh can make our vehicle shooting quite dangerous but he would also buff all those Kommandos, Stormboys and Squig units.

You could even take him in a Death Skull or Freebooters Detachment and take a killy Goff Warboss / Trike if you feel like it.
But well, if you take Ghazzi I see no real reason not to swap the Wartrike for a Beastboss on Squiggosaurus.

I am also trying to figure where to put Ghazz, the problem i have with him is, he does not fit anywhere in my current lists, he is too slow with a M:7 while costing 300points. So all your army is really fast and he is left behind. For 300 points it is difficult to justify with out building a list around him? Not sure how to put him, he is a good deterrent, but feels niche? Not sure how to think about him.

I’ve found Goff wartrike to be a decent t1 melee missile. He can adv + charge to move basically anywhere he can fit and w/ ramming speed, roadkilla and shokka hull causes respectable amount of MWs. Having 6 ws2+ exploding attacks, Str8 and re-roll to wounds makes him an excellent assassin of characters and elite units (anything with an invuln to be honest). He can also tie multiple units in combat and force unwanted fall backs. Basically his mere presence forces your opponent to take a cagey approach with deployment and first turn moves, which is a valuable asset by itself, especially in games timed with chess clocks.

 Grotrebel wrote:
Had any of you some success with the Deffkilla Wartrike in close combat?
Have been running him for 10+ games now for Speedwaagh but I have to say his melee output is kinda disappointing. :(
Ether he bounces off if I face good invul or armour saves, his damage becomes almost zero vs. dmg -1 or he has no good target besides chaff.

Sure he helps my vehicle heavy lists a lot with Speedwaaagh but since he deploys behind other stuff his shooting does not reach good targets and it's hard to make space early on.

Badskull Banner as Freebooter is nice though, but it's not often he can bring it to good use and survive.

But well, if you take Ghazzi I see no real reason not to swap the Wartrike for a Beastboss on Squiggosaurus.

With the Badskull Banner you can have enemy troops lose obsec, which combines well with the freebooter strat, so you can flip an objective with 5 kommandos or 5 stormboyz. In practise I will try that "combo" for the first time this friday, with a list that isn't a map control list at all so...

Sure a freebooter wartrike will die shortly after but after having charged, dealt MWs with the WLT, and done his thing with banner. But perhaps that sort of trade is good enough ? I dunno really, need to try it out

AarresaariAarre that Goff build ain't half bad either ! But that means a regular waagh, and I love me that speedwaagh extra AP. I do want to try out that spicy Goff wartrike build some day though

Forceride wrote:

 Grotrebel wrote:

Another thing I have been thinking about for a few days is Ghazghkull.
While he got worse, can no longer be healed and is quite expensive for what he does I see some reasons to bring him.
For one mixed lists with different clan detachments are what most armies are bringing anyway and Goffs are still seeing some play - so he might just roll with it.
His big Waaagh can make our vehicle shooting quite dangerous but he would also buff all those Kommandos, Stormboys and Squig units.

You could even take him in a Death Skull or Freebooters Detachment and take a killy Goff Warboss / Trike if you feel like it.
But well, if you take Ghazzi I see no real reason not to swap the Wartrike for a Beastboss on Squiggosaurus.

I am also trying to figure where to put Ghazz, the problem i have with him is, he does not fit anywhere in my current lists, he is too slow with a M:7 while costing 300points. So all your army is really fast and he is left behind. For 300 points it is difficult to justify with out building a list around him? Not sure how to put him, he is a good deterrent, but feels niche? Not sure how to think about him.

The best I could come up with for ghaz.



There is enough high value targets in that list that ghaz will mostly be ignored first turn. Problem is even with him move, adv turn 1, and move, adv, and charge turn 2 he’s still limited enough with movement your opponent can control who ghaz can engage with. Furthermore his weapon change makes it worse when ghaz needs to advance each turn to get in range of melee. It’s better just to make the same list without ghaz in the end.

Blood Axe buggy spam by Many Cheema returns, 3th on GT

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-goonhammerception/



And he use Big Mek with KFF btw. and it makes sence in the list a lot.

 Tomsug wrote:
Blood Axe buggy spam by Many Cheema returns, 3th on GT

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-goonhammerception/

Spoiler:

Outrider Detachment -3CP (Orks) [61 PL, 1,090pts]

Clan: Blood Axes

-HQ-

Deffkilla Wartrike [6 PL, 120pts] Warlord, Warlord Trait: Brutal but Kunnin’

-Elite-

Kommandos [4 PL, 50pts] x5, Nob

-Fast Attack-

Megatrakk Scrapjets [15 PL, 270pts] x3
Megatrakk Scrapjets [15 PL, 270pts] x3
Megatrakk Scrapjets [15 PL, 270pts] x3
Stormboyz [3 PL, 55pts] x5, Nob
Stormboyz [3 PL, 55pts] x5, Nob

Outrider Detachment -4CP (Orks) [51 PL, 910pts]

Clan: Blood Axes

-HQ-

Big Mek with Kustom Force Field [6 PL, 100pts] Grot Oiler, Bionik Oiler, Free Relic: Morgog’s Finkin’ Cap, Big Boss -1CP: I’ve Got a Plan Ladz!

-Fast Attack-

Rukkatrukk Squigbuggies [15 PL, 270pts] x3
Rukkatrukk Squigbuggies [15 PL, 270pts] x3
Rukkatrukk Squigbuggies [15 PL, 270pts] x3

And he use Big Mek with KFF btw. and it makes sence in the list a lot.

They must have been playing on planet bowling ball at these tournaments. How he's fielding 18 buggies and being able to maneuver them is beyond me

Can you even physically field 18 buggies in your deployment zone with terrain lol

Depends.
Some places offer little terrain in the far back edges so while the front of your deployment zones have terrain the back probably doesnt.

Well he can still put up to 9 Buggies in strategic Reserve for free while deploying, so if he runs out of space he can just go for that.

What baffles me more is how he got his hands on 9 Squigbuggies.

 Grotrebel wrote:
Well he can still put up to 9 Buggies in strategic Reserve for free while deploying, so if he runs out of space he can just go for that.

What baffles me more is how he got his hands on 9 Squigbuggies.

Probably conversions of some sort, that or he looted it from unsuspecting players. You can do it IRL even if you can't do it in game as a strat anymore!

they could be kitbashes, or 3d prints if thats allowed there.
I mean, a squigbuggy is literally a trukk with squigs on it lol. Lop off the overhead bars that go over the trukk bed, add some squigs (bomb squigs, attack squigs, or just greenstuff toothy things) and change the bigshoota to be more of a small kannon.

I actually used my squigbuggy as a trukk in the past because for a joke list i wanted 4 trukks and didnt feel like building a 4th one lol

Personally, i hate it when people spam a single unit to the max. Especially when theyre expensive enough to take a large chunk of the list in the process.
All it does is draw attention to that model and eventually get it nerfed. Even if the only reason it was that strong was because of the sheer numbers on the field.

Here is an interesting rundown of five different lists:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arbq0uR4goU

Its interesting that Blood Axe seems to be the most popular kultur by a fair margin. A second Deathskull detachment for ObSec also seems quite meta:
For example, see this list that Darren Jac got 2nd with at Alberta GT:

No wonder - how else are you gona deal with elf mellee that's so dominant in high comp meta. Heck, even grey knights and some other Marines are aiming for t1 charge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Freebootas are also a bit wasted on squigbuggies. And they tend to spam specifically out of Los shooting variants.

So, is it legal to put a non trukkboy character in a trukk with trukkboys?

 Grotrebel wrote:
Well he can still put up to 9 Buggies in strategic Reserve for free while deploying, so if he runs out of space he can just go for that.

What baffles me more is how he got his hands on 9 Squigbuggies.

But dont he need to deploy them first before he can put them in strategic reserve for free with blood axes?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 OOTN wrote:
So, is it legal to put a non trukkboy character in a trukk with trukkboys?

as it stands now? sure. because the trukk doesnt change keyword, the trukkboys do.

gungo wrote:

Forceride wrote:

 Grotrebel wrote:

Another thing I have been thinking about for a few days is Ghazghkull.
While he got worse, can no longer be healed and is quite expensive for what he does I see some reasons to bring him.
For one mixed lists with different clan detachments are what most armies are bringing anyway and Goffs are still seeing some play - so he might just roll with it.
His big Waaagh can make our vehicle shooting quite dangerous but he would also buff all those Kommandos, Stormboys and Squig units.

You could even take him in a Death Skull or Freebooters Detachment and take a killy Goff Warboss / Trike if you feel like it.
But well, if you take Ghazzi I see no real reason not to swap the Wartrike for a Beastboss on Squiggosaurus.

I am also trying to figure where to put Ghazz, the problem i have with him is, he does not fit anywhere in my current lists, he is too slow with a M:7 while costing 300points. So all your army is really fast and he is left behind. For 300 points it is difficult to justify with out building a list around him? Not sure how to put him, he is a good deterrent, but feels niche? Not sure how to think about him.

The best I could come up with for ghaz.

Spoiler:

Supreme command- klan:Goff
Ghaz-warboss-trait:proper killy

Battalion- klan:Goff
Beastboss on squig-big boss1cp- trait:Brutal but kunnin, relic+1:headwompa
Makari

Beastsnagga x10- on Killrig
Beastsnagga x10- on Killrig
Gretchin (orrible gitz)

3x squigriders +bombsquig
3x squigriders +bombsquig

Killrig- frazzle, spirit of gork
Killrig- frazzle, squiggly curse

Outrider-deathskulls
Warboss on bike- relic2:killaklaw, big boss-trait:Ard as nails
(or junk boss warlord trait if he doesn’t get the warboss invul)

5x kommandos-obj secured (nob w/klaw)
5x kommandos-obj secured (nob w/klaw)

1x scrapjet
1x scrapjet
1x squigbuggy-kustom job nitro squig
1x squigbuggy
1x kustom boosta blast

6cp left over

There is enough high value targets in that list that ghaz will mostly be ignored first turn. Problem is even with him move, adv turn 1, and move, adv, and charge turn 2 he’s still limited enough with movement your opponent can control who ghaz can engage with. Furthermore his weapon change makes it worse when ghaz needs to advance each turn to get in range of melee. It’s better just to make the same list without ghaz in the end.

Spoiler:

Battalion- klan: Goff
Beastboss on squig- warlord trait:Brutal but kunnin, relic1:headwompa choppa
Mega bigMek- tellyporta blasta, relic2:da shiny shoota -1cp

Beastsnagga x10- on Killrig
Beastsnagga x10- on Killrig
10x boys (nob w/pk)- trukk boys specialist

3x squigriders
3x squigriders
3x squigriders

Killrig- frazzle, spirit of gork
Killrig- frazzle, squiggly curse

Dedicated transport: trukk

Outrider-deathskulls -3cp
Warboss on bike- relic3:killaklaw, bigboss trait:ard as nails, -2cp

5x kommandos-obj secured (nob w/pk)
5x kommandos-obj secured (nob w/pk)

1x scrapjet
1x scrapjet
1x scrapjet
1x squigbuggy
1x squigbuggy
1x squigbuggy

6cp left over

Yeah, thx for the lists . But it's like your saying, the moment you remove gaz you realise you don't need him in the first place. Really sad, love the model, probably use for 1k games though.

 koooaei wrote:
No wonder - how else are you gona deal with elf mellee that's so dominant in high comp meta. Heck, even grey knights and some other Marines are aiming for t1 charge.

How do we deal with T1 charges? There seems to be a couple of strategies:

Blood axe kultur
Midfield screening with kommandos
Rezmekkas redder paint on a squigboss
Supercharging the KFF turn 1 for a 5++ save
Deploying further back, if you have a higher threat range (trukk boyz for example)
Ragequitting and flipping the table if you dont get first turn

A proppa ork would throw the table at the enemy.

But 5++ KFF in melee is a good point, in my recent games I've completely forgotten that this is a thing.

Deploy fully in back, screening units in front (of my deploy or kommandos) and 5++ invu.

Screeing in your deploy or kommand style depends on enemy.

Typical situation are Mortarion/Big Tyranids/Big Deamons - simply the bastards that FLY. Because they don 't care about you kommandos in front. Jump over them and charge. Important is to position you units such way, there is no space for their base between your protected units and screening units. Use the terrain into your adventage. Two grots on the Container deny this dudes a place to sit there. Plus you need to have the front of the screening units in front enough, bastards cannot pile in into your protected units.

So you need build a move blocking wall 4+” in front with no holes big enough for the Bastards base.

And be care about the tricks with 6” consolidation

Sometimes, it could be a really hard puzzle.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
they could be kitbashes, or 3d prints if thats allowed there.

Personally, i hate it when people spam a single unit to the max. Especially when theyre expensive enough to take a large chunk of the list in the process.
All it does is draw attention to that model and eventually get it nerfed. Even if the only reason it was that strong was because of the sheer numbers on the field.

Yes I agree, I think scrapjets and sguigbuggies were already on the radar for a nerf next chance GW gets. With that sort of list getting top three positions in tournaments, the ping on the radar only gets stronger. This is just bad news for us.

 addnid wrote:

Yes I agree, I think scrapjets and sguigbuggies were already on the radar for a nerf next chance GW gets. With that sort of list getting top three positions in tournaments, the ping on the radar only gets stronger. This is just bad news for us.

Nothing like this happen. Such build is not strong enough. Look at the GT results. Well, some orks there or there. Mostly players known for years for beeing good with orks.

What I expect to be a hell is the arrive of Killrig and Squigosaur from china to the market. That could be wild!

 addnid wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
they could be kitbashes, or 3d prints if thats allowed there.

Personally, i hate it when people spam a single unit to the max. Especially when theyre expensive enough to take a large chunk of the list in the process.
All it does is draw attention to that model and eventually get it nerfed. Even if the only reason it was that strong was because of the sheer numbers on the field.

Yes I agree, I think scrapjets and sguigbuggies were already on the radar for a nerf next chance GW gets. With that sort of list getting top three positions in tournaments, the ping on the radar only gets stronger. This is just bad news for us.

That would be a very low blow, considering the Add mech and Drukkari issue. I don't see Orks as in the top, well at least if i cared for being meta, i wouldn't be collecting orks. We have some nice toys and good stuff to play, but in a balanced position of power, funny, something that GW should aim for.. sort off...

GLORIOUS NEWS FROM THE GROTVOLUSHUNARY FRONT COMRADES

Ahem. I have actually been managing to win and contest games with my grotvolushun list against quasi-competitive opponents. Well, opponents using the Drukhari and Admech codexes, if not using them in *particularly* crazy competitive configurations (my admech opponent self-limits to 10 skitarii and does take their special weaponry, and my drukhari opponent runs pure kabalites rather than the current kabal+wych cult meta setup)

This is my current 2k setup:


Weaponry capable of efficiently destroying our redoubtable armored units most commonly resides in extravagant edifices of the excesses of the bourgeoisie known as 'Elite Units' and 'Vehicles' so we have armed our initial turn 1 fullisade with enough rokkits to blow up the moon.

on turn 2, at the sound of the whistle from the GKVD Kommissar, codename Grotzghkull will initiate "The People's Waagh" which enables the melee-capable units to advance and charge the enemy while any of our rokkit units that could inconceivably have been removed by enemy attacks will be more than made up for with a blistering AP of -3.

The primary tricks up this list's sleeves are:

-Makari's good good flag provides a FNP to all GOFFS units, including deff dreads kanz grot tanks etc, and does not just provide it to CORE, so the grots all hide and let the T7 3+ FNP-having vehicles take the turn 1 hits
-Mek Boss Buzzgob grants +1 to hit to a unit of killa kanz and also has a flat 4 repair which he generally gets to make use of at least twice over the course of the game. Most of my opponents have focused on the deff dreads initially as they are kind of the distraction carnifex (one of them more literally than the others) of the list and that has allowed the glorious rokkit fullisade to really just tear it up regardless of whether i go first or second.
-I might consider bringing a KFF mek in there? My drukhari opponent went first against me, rolled up into blaster range with the raiders and had enough firepower to remove 2 of the deff dreads cleanly, and left the third one with 2HP. on my turn i responded by popping the peoples' waagh immediately, and ghazzy, the squigoss and the last dread were all easily in krumping range of kabalites after I busted them out of their boats, I wound up just owning the midboard top of turn 2 with a whole bunch of threatening gak and ghaz went hogwild all over an opponent who basically only did damage in the shooting phase. So maybe cutting AP-3 and AP-4 firepower down even more would help keep 2 dreads alive instead of 1 but i'd basically be exchanging buzzgob for that capability and I really really liked the 3+BS killa kanz.

 Jidmah wrote:
A proppa ork would throw the table at the enemy.

But 5++ KFF in melee is a good point, in my recent games I've completely forgotten that this is a thing.

I am running 3 Patrols in my list right now, its a hardcore Alpha strike list, but maybe a Big Mek with KFF would be a "ok"ish addition to throw into a Trukk for that turn 2 beta strike. Have him explode his KFF for a 5++ and maybe give the Alpha striking units a chance to survive turn 2 if they need it. Only problem is that the list revolves around doing as much dmg as physically possible turn 1 to limit my opponents return strike on turn 2 and a Big Mek with KFF in Mega armor is ridiculously over priced at 115pts. If he was about 30pts cheaper he might have a place in my list, but at 115 its just too much of a liability.

Oh, so you want him without the armour, gun, CCW? I mean, there is just such a unit!

But honestly, in the games I've played the extra stuff you pay for when you upgrade to mega armour will usually come in handy at some point or another. At the very least the ability to take the DDS makes him a credible shooting threat.

I expect ad mech and druk to get hit harder than us. We will get hit perhaps only on scrapjets and sguig buggies, and nowhere else, which would be ok I guess ? I hope other stuff goes down like flash gitz, who need to go down to 20 ppm

Two buggies totally overshadow the others, no one takes the others in top lists, so it is logical to reshuffle that situation imho

20 ppm for a flash git? A loota is 17 points and only has 1 wound. But then again, Lootas are too expensive id say at even 17.

 addnid wrote:
I expect ad mech and druk to get hit harder than us. We will get hit perhaps only on scrapjets and sguig buggies, and nowhere else, which would be ok I guess ? I hope other stuff goes down like flash gitz, who need to go down to 20 ppm

Two buggies totally overshadow the others, no one takes the others in top lists, so it is logical to reshuffle that situation imho

Realistically, boyz need to go down a point or two at least, given how iffy they are with all the changes they got too. I'm not sure FG are at 20ppm range, maybe 24. Tankbustas and Lootas both need to go down substantially, since the T5 is definitely overstated when it comes to adding resiliency to those units.

I wouldn't expect too much from the FAQ. We already know that GW won't be doing any re-balancing unless there absolutely is a need to do so, they especially won't buff anything.

And even if Scrapjets and Squigbuggies should receive nerfs, it won't be with the first FAQ, but later this year.

Don't set yourself up for disappointment when we know exactly what's coming.

Beardedragon wrote:
20 ppm for a flash git? A loota is 17 points and only has 1 wound. But then again, Lootas are too expensive id say at even 17.

Lootas should be 15 at the very max. I would only start playing lootas at 14 ppm I think. Depending on the speeswaagh passenger AP "bonus or nos bonus" of course. FGitz yeah perhaps 22 points then, 24 still seems a bit much. We would take a deff dredd every day over 3,5 FGits no ?

Flash gits should be priced around moving, not around standing still.

 Jidmah wrote:
I wouldn't expect too much from the FAQ. We already know that GW won't be doing any re-balancing unless there absolutely is a need to do so, they especially won't buff anything.

And even if Scrapjets and Squigbuggies should receive nerfs, it won't be with the first FAQ, but later this year.

Don't set yourself up for disappointment when we know exactly what's coming.

Yeah, this. Ork codex is too new to get FAQed, I don't expect any change before 2022. Heck, it hasn't even been properly released yet.

 Jidmah wrote:
Flash gits should be priced around moving, not around standing still.

Totally, and being a fairly recent kit, it is strange GW made no effort at all with these in terms of rules and in terms of PPM analysis. Their time will come though, I just know it Perhaps 2022, perhaps 2023... But their time will come !! More dakka ! (to me the most recent models are the epitome of dakka !!)

The only substantial changes in the faq I expect is the specialist transport issue and aligning FW keywords to balance with 9th changes.
We have a 50/50 chance of getting a decent army of renown detachment from the campaign book.
Either or the above changes should be a bonus more then a negative for us.

Exactly. Both buggies are not super strong. They are strong but nothing special.

What will be interesting is the arrive of the Killrigs with their rain of MW and alphacharge.

That will be the moment when the people start to rise their heads…. and scream loudly.

The 40k app has been updated, so yeah trukks can now legally embark specialist mob.

For those without the app and that are still waiting for the FAQ, how did they change the rule?

edit: and was anything else changed?

They updated the Transport rule in the Trukk datasheet itself: [...This model has a transport capacity of 12 Flash Gitz, Specialist mob Infantry or <Clan> Infantry models...]
(sorry, don't know how to attach an image on that post, seems complicated...)

And I don't know if other datasheet have been updated.

there is also an FAQ on the Brutal but kunnin: yes additional hits generated by the 'No mukkin around' that don't reach the Inflict Damage can be made - but note that those new attacks can't generate new hits again from the Mukkin around rule.

The fact that it still calls out Flash Gitz makes me sad because that probably does mean Flash Gitz are not supposed to be any clan.
Which is mega annoying since their kulture is 100% pointless if you dont have half an army minimum of them.

other changes I notice on the 40K app :

- Kustom job "Extra kustom weapon": [Mek, Big Mek or Spanner model equipped with kustom mega slugga or kustom mega blasta only...]. So that's definitely not for vehicle.

- Pyromaniac: Kustom Boosta blasta has been added among the list of upgradable units.

- Boom Boyz: Blistza-Bommer has been removed.

- Mad Dok gets 'Ard as nail' warlord trait if he gains one.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
The fact that it still calls out Flash Gitz makes me sad because that probably does mean Flash Gitz are not supposed to be any clan.
Which is mega annoying since their kulture is 100% pointless if you dont have half an army minimum of them.

Their clan keyword wasn't removed in the app update. This might just be to allow Badrukk in the same transport as Flash Gitz from another clan.

Hey Ork players!
I just brought the new Ork codex
Haven’t been played it since assault at black reach edition.
Here my collection since 2nd edition. Any useful?

 Tomsug wrote:
Exactly. Both buggies are not super strong. They are strong but nothing special.

I would kind of disagree: A Scrapjet essentially has 4 rokkit launchers, 4 big shootas and the melee of a killa kan. Its reasonably tough and has 10" movements, for 90 points.

They are good against everything. Their only drawback is the financial drain you incur when you spam them. And if you run them as blood axe they can fall back and shoot, and they will have light cover in turn one. You can even deepstrike nine of them for no CP-cost with the blood axe warlord trait. Say, if the opponent has a crazy gunline.

I dont think they will be nerfed right away, but sooner or later ork players will show up with nine Scrapjets in every list, and this will definitely be noticed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Solidcrash wrote:
Hey Ork players!
I just brought the new Ork codex
Haven’t been played it since assault at black reach edition.
Here my collection since 2nd edition. Any useful?

Spoiler:

•58 grots (50 of it are oop)
•2 runt herds
•1 ammo grot
•17 Nobs
•15 Lootas
•12 Burnas + 5 unbuild = 17
•5 kommo
•boss sriklot
•16 ‘ard boyz
•9 ‘ard Shoota
•8 tank busta
•9 heavy shoota
•2 rokkia
•52 Boyz (half of it are oop)
•Warboss
•Warboss on biker (oops bikers convert)
•6 Deffcopter
•2 oops megaarmour Nob
•2 Mek Boyz
•1 Deffnought from 2nd edition, look small?
•1 Stompa

The deffkopters, warboss, kommandos, and burnas are good. The boyz will be usefull as well, if you can scrounge a trukk for them. Regards

Cheer! Wish brought trukk long time ago as it price go up. A lot. Maybe diy it

Hopefully GW does something to make boyz playable, or really anything to make one of our troop choices not feel like a tax

Seems like there is a patch for FW entries too.

So far:

- warboss on bike lose all his skills and the warboss keyword but win big red button and a 5++
- squiggoth have ramshackle.
- Killtank lose ramshackle.
- Nobz on bike didn't gain cloud of smoke nor big red button.

Are this squigheads gonna release a regular FAQ or are we gonna looking for what is the difference in the app and guessing, what is just an error and what is actualy the real FAQ?

Warboss on bike w pk, speedboss, and 5++ is a win… take ard as nails on him and he’s a beast. I’m assuming the faq will release today with the new codex.

Really glad to see the updates for the WB on Bike to be streamlined with the WB changes. Pretty bummed out that Nob Bikerz are basically just worse Warbikerz though. I guess they want to sell those Squighog Boyz.

lol the beast boss on squig has lost all abilities

this is obviously an error it doesn't even have ere we go or beast snagga ability.

My advice is wait for the FAQ because the app is not a reliable source of info.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
nobz on warbikes make me sad ...compared to warbikers you get .... an extra attack and no cloud of smoke ability or red button ability and +5 points.

I hope that is not where they are going to be when a FAQ comes out...

cody.d. wrote:
Oh, so you want him without the armour, gun, CCW? I mean, there is just such a unit!

But honestly, in the games I've played the extra stuff you pay for when you upgrade to mega armour will usually come in handy at some point or another. At the very least the ability to take the DDS makes him a credible shooting threat.

A big Mek with KFF was a questionable unit to take in 8th/early 9th at 60ppm, he is now 85pts. You are creating a false dichotomy where the only two choices are Big mek with KFF or Big mek in Mega armor and KFF, and you have to choose one. Both are over priced, both aren't nearly as good as a Warboss, so the obvious answer is Take neither.

5++ KFF big mek 60pts, they nerfed it to a 6++ and bumped his price by 25pts, or about 40%, that is just insulting to ork players who actually wanted to use the KFF. A big Mek in Mega armor with KFF is the same price as a Warboss in Mega Armor. It has 1 less movement, Weapon skill, Strength, Toughness, Wounds, 2 less Attacks. The Megamek provides a bubble of 6+ (who cares) and that is about the only buff it provides. You can exaggerate the benefits of his ability to repair buggies, but he won't even be in range turn 2 and we all know that. But on the upside, its ork plasma gun is BS4... and you can spend 10 extra points to give it 1 extra shot. Or as you mentioned, you can take away his Ork Plasma gun and give him a Kustom Shoota and spend a relic to upgrade that to the Ded Shiny Shoota which is a ranged 18 Heavy Bolter. You aren't going to be in dakka range often but at normal ranges its 5 Heavy Bolter hits. a Space Marine player can get better results with 3 Heavy Bolters.

Beardedragon wrote:
20 ppm for a flash git? A loota is 17 points and only has 1 wound. But then again, Lootas are too expensive id say at even 17.

A loota isn't worth 13pts let alone 17. The problem is the premise is that its an autocannon therefore it needs to be expensive, 10ish points. The problem is that Ork Boyz at 9ppm so they gave us a 2pt reduction and said the Autocannon is an 8pt upgrade for orkz...because BS5 I guess. And here we hit the main issue, Boyz aren't worth 9. They are worth at absolute best 8, and likely 7. The nerfs they took in order to gain that T5 and -1AP Choppas were outstandingly huge. So, 8+7 would still be 15ppm. At 15 a unit of 5 (including spanner) would be 75pts and would dish out on average 8 shots, or 12 at half range, that works out to 2.66 or 4 hits at S7 -1AP and 2dmg. Against a Light vehicle with a 4+ save that works out to 2.36dmg or at half range 3.5dmg. For a relatively tough unit with 2 wounds or a 3+ armor or both, that would be fine, for a glass cannon unit with 1 wound, bad morale and a 6+ save? This is atrocious. realistically a Unit of lootas needs a dmg increase or a price cut down to 13ppm in order to justify there existence in the current game. I did a point comparison with several other Auto-cannon armed units, Orkz are literally the WORST point for point when it comes to issuing dmg and sadly they are likewise the worst when it comes to durability. The only benefit they have over some of the other units is that their weapons aren't heavy. As far as Flashgitz They are obviously over priced at 27. I think 22 would be a better price point for them. Or split the difference and go to 24-25ppm and change their guns to assault. Because, as Jidmah said

 Jidmah wrote:
Flash gits should be priced around moving, not around standing still.

And this is true about most of our ork units. They aren't priced on what they normally do, but what they theoretically could do. Look at Lootas in 8th. They were god awful, but they were priced with the mindset of Mobbing up, shooting twice and getting exploding 5s, all while being shielded by grots. Christ you had Marine players saying the Stompa was good because theoretically it could 1 shot a couple knights in 1 turn, Which was true, it could, but it was more likely to not even bracket a single 1 and it was JUST as likely to miss every single shot it fired. But some people have only memories for that 1 time the unlikely happened and it just won't leave their broken minds

I'm having success with my Kommando lists, i'm avoiding Boyz as much as possible except for Trukk Boyz and I'm doing my best to not double dip into Buggies. The Codex has some good builds in it, but overall I feel like we just moved the codex from 1 style to another without addressing any of the inherent power imbalances. Instead of boyz being great and all other infantry mostly garbage, its now Boyz are terrible and some of our elite infantry is good, some is bad and a small amount like Kommandos are great.

My absolute favorite part of this codex though is the Stompa. In 8th GW realized how screwed up they had made the Stompa and gave it a 50% increase in fire power AND a 50pt price reduction, in 9th they REALLY realized how stupid they had been and cut it by over 200pts.....and its still trash

That means that for YEARS GW had a model several hundred points over priced and under powered and still didn't address it correctly. Pretty sure it was 950pts at the start of 8th, and its now 675 and nobody wants to use it in tournament play. Not many models can take a 25% price cut and still be considered garbage tier

I mean the only time the stompa was decent but still not winning tournaments was the misprinted forgeworld buzzgrob kustom stompa that was misprinted by over 300 points and was only 600pts plus after it died buzzgrob disembarked making it an extremely durable warlord in 6th and like I said it still wasn’t competitive model just a good one.

But overall I agree with you they made so many changes that the boosts don’t account for the nerfs even though they raised prices to make up for the boosts so you have a lot of units that just aren’t good on the flip side we have a few that are strong and that’s all people will judge us on until those are nerfed. I honestly don’t know why they took away several decent and fun abilities that weren’t overpowers like flying eadbutt strat.

Psychocouac wrote:
Seems like there is a patch for FW entries too.

So far:

- warboss on bike lose all his skills and the warboss keyword but win big red button and a 5++
- squiggoth have ramshackle.
- Killtank lose ramshackle.
- Nobz on bike didn't gain cloud of smoke nor big red button.

Did the boss get Cloud of Smoke?

Psychocouac wrote:
Seems like there is a patch for FW entries too.

So far:

- warboss on bike lose all his skills and the warboss keyword but win big red button and a 5++
- squiggoth have ramshackle.
- Killtank lose ramshackle.
- Nobz on bike didn't gain cloud of smoke nor big red button.

Kannonwagon? Get a Ramshackle? Change of the Grot Gunner to have BS 4+ to do not bug with Freebootas culture?

I think playtestors or GW really didn't like the idea of Orks being able to sit back and shoot and the ork codex really reflects that shift where orks have been pushed toward an assault army which is non ork players not realizing that orks have long been about the dakka

russellmoo wrote:
I think playtestors or GW really didn't like the idea of Orks being able to sit back and shoot and the ork codex really reflects that shift where orks have been pushed toward an assault army which is non ork players not realizing that orks have long been about the dakka

Out of curiosity - did you read the same codex as I did?

When I play my speed waaagh lists it feels like my orks have never been as good at shooting as they are now. Just with my super casual one-of-everthing-list I can shoot armies like necrons off the board.

im guessing that comment comes from lack of DDD, which really didnt help beyond the auto hits (moot in 9th).

Orks are definitely deadly in shooting. Actually most of what our army has right now that feels ridiculously strong is in shooting, not melee.
Squigboss/squigriders are like....the only thing thats pretty dang good right now that is only because of their melee. Even the Killrig has some mean shooting/psykerin'

If my Burna Boyz spanners kustom mega blasta fires from a trukk, rolls a one and causes a mortal wound (thereby killing the model) does the Burna boy squad then have to roll for morale?

I gotta say the deathskulls 5+ save against mortal wounds is under rated. Great for kustom, mega blastas, weirdboyz, exploding trukks, volkite fire and should be good against tsons when they get stuck into the meta.

So I’m always confused on this choice..
Is the 65pt nob on smasha squig a better choice to make over spending
75pts on 3x squigriders.

I feel 3x the squigs is a much better investment.

 Jidmah wrote:

russellmoo wrote:
I think playtestors or GW really didn't like the idea of Orks being able to sit back and shoot and the ork codex really reflects that shift where orks have been pushed toward an assault army which is non ork players not realizing that orks have long been about the dakka

Out of curiosity - did you read the same codex as I did?

When I play my speed waaagh lists it feels like my orks have never been as good at shooting as the are now. Just with my super casual one-of-everthing-list I can shoot armies like necrons off the board.

That has not been my experience. I have had dismal shooting phases with combinations of x3 scraojets, x3 dragastas, 1 snazz wagon. I do most my damage in combat.

After of couples of games with the new codex in last few days, I have to say:

- scrapjets in squads of 2 are good. Propably better then single, because of what they do in charge and CC and spare the slots. 3 will be enough. But 2 is fine at least.
- MA Big Mek in DeadShiny Shoota and Opportunist. Well… for this price, not happy at all. Hits like a wet noodle and half pf the opponents I face does not offer me target to care about. In fact, this dude is able to kill just 4-5 W characters in a turn and honestly…. These are mostly not so important. And his close combat with 3 attacks is a joke.
- Plaing new codex with old codex units - and not having the squigbuggies jet - is really hard. A lot of conversions in front of me…
- trukboyz are great
- watrike hits like a wet noodle too. However - Badskull banner in combination with Get Da Loot is great.
- Wazboom is great. Dakkajet too, but it is an old story. But two wazbooms are massive! Try it. Kill the Leviathan Dread or squad of Terminators in single turn and they have no chance to hide
- buggies need go be in mass more than before. Three Scrapjets was ok before, but now it' s not enough. Need 4 or 6.
- dragsta is dead. KBB is sometimes great, sometimes totally useless. Say hallo Thousnad Sons….

Boosta-blastas confirmed for Pyromaniacs really makes me want to try out a unit of 2, though giving up a trukkboyz slot hurts and I don't want to go to 3 detachments.

 Geemoney wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

russellmoo wrote:
I think playtestors or GW really didn't like the idea of Orks being able to sit back and shoot and the ork codex really reflects that shift where orks have been pushed toward an assault army which is non ork players not realizing that orks have long been about the dakka

Out of curiosity - did you read the same codex as I did?

When I play my speed waaagh lists it feels like my orks have never been as good at shooting as the are now. Just with my super casual one-of-everthing-list I can shoot armies like necrons off the board.

That has not been my experience. I have had dismal shooting phases with combinations of x3 scraojets, x3 dragastas, 1 snazz wagon. I do most my damage in combat.

don't t get me started.....lol....my opinion on the scrapjet has already been shared.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

russellmoo wrote:
I think playtestors or GW really didn't like the idea of Orks being able to sit back and shoot and the ork codex really reflects that shift where orks have been pushed toward an assault army which is non ork players not realizing that orks have long been about the dakka

Out of curiosity - did you read the same codex as I did?

When I play my speed waaagh lists it feels like my orks have never been as good at shooting as the are now. Just with my super casual one-of-everthing-list I can shoot armies like necrons off the board.

i feel certain units that were utterly useless like the squig buggy received a massive boost, other shooting units were less impressive but ok.
Shokjump dragsters for example lost alot by losing deffskulls reroll, losing shooting strats hurt aswell.

shooting is probably better but you can't shoot in the same way as before, time to put shoota boyz in trukks with trukk boys

Madjob wrote:
Boosta-blastas confirmed for Pyromaniacs really makes me want to try out a unit of 2, though giving up a trukkboyz slot hurts and I don't want to go to 3 detachments.

Is it really worth it? You lose klan benefits and any klan auras just for your 8in exhausts to have a Min 3 on d6.

Sorry the emphasis in that post should have been on that orks can’t sit backand shoot.

Orks can move and shoot but any unit that used to stay still and shoot either got changed to be more mobile, got worse, or both

well in 9th you generally dont want to sit back and shoot anyway.
Midfield, yes, but in the back? no. Gotta park it on objectives before you play the dakka game.

gungo wrote:

Madjob wrote:
Boosta-blastas confirmed for Pyromaniacs really makes me want to try out a unit of 2, though giving up a trukkboyz slot hurts and I don't want to go to 3 detachments.

Is it really worth it? You lose klan benefits and any klan auras just for your 8in exhausts to have a Min 3 on d6.

Yeah, if the exhausts were 12" range like regular burnas were I would see an argument for them to be upgraded, but if you really want flamer damage, I think its worth just taking a burna boy unit and slapping them in a trukk with the Pyromaniacs buff on them instead. You definitely get more mileage out of it IMO.

Continuing on the changes visible on the 40K app :
- "I'm Da Boss" : [...a maximum of one Warboss or Speedboss in each Detachment...], instead of [ ...one Warboss or Deffkilla wartrike...] in the book.

This change is probably to go along with the change on the FW Bikerboss (which loses Warboss keyword, but keeps speedboss keyword ... also visible in the 40K app)

 Grimskul wrote:

gungo wrote:

Madjob wrote:
Boosta-blastas confirmed for Pyromaniacs really makes me want to try out a unit of 2, though giving up a trukkboyz slot hurts and I don't want to go to 3 detachments.

Is it really worth it? You lose klan benefits and any klan auras just for your 8in exhausts to have a Min 3 on d6.

Yeah, if the exhausts were 12" range like regular burnas were I would see an argument for them to be upgraded, but if you really want flamer damage, I think its worth just taking a burna boy unit and slapping them in a trukk with the Pyromaniacs buff on them instead. You definitely get more mileage out of it IMO.

I think it's more complex than that. They don't get that much out of most kulturs. It's 160pts for two KBB, +2" movement over the Trukk, +6W (with the drawback of dropping shots after 8W), vs. 180 for 10 Burnas/Spanners + Trukk, +4" range for burnas over burna exhausts. You gain 2" net for the Trukk, but if you aren't going first there's a possibility of getting bracketed before the same amount of damage would have killed one of the KBB and losing 4" of movement (and KBBs can get Cloud of Smoke protection to further avoid this). Navigating the two bases with terrain is obviously trickier than a single Trukk. I'm also still leery of the exact ruling for Speedwaaagh! and passengers shooting, I know the rare rule supports the AP buff but it just feels like something GW wouldn't have intended and I'm expecting an FAQ regarding it to rule against it, and if it does then the Burna boyz option lose out on AP-1. Lastly of course the rivet kannons are a nice thing to have on top. Overall I can't say for sure which is better but I feel it's worth trying out, as I said.

russellmoo wrote:
Sorry the emphasis in that post should have been on that orks can’t sit backand shoot.

Orks can move and shoot but any unit that used to stay still and shoot either got changed to be more mobile, got worse, or both

Well I can agree with that, though I really don't feel like any units got worse except mek guns. Even in regards to buggies where all of them are outperformed by scrapjets and squigbuggies, each individual buggy got better than they were in the previous codex, just not as much as the big two.

Mek gunz got worse only in huge numbers and mostly Smashas. Bubblechukkas and Traktors got better profiles, KMKs are now 20 points cheaper which is basically a massive 30% discount. Yes, they suffer from morale but how many ork players did actually have (or want to play) more than 3-6 models? How many heavy support slots do we actually need?

Ok, Smasha spam is dead but for those players who wanted to field 1-3 mek gunz they actually got a nice boost. Maybe even up to 6 mek gunz in 3 squads of 2 would do ok for their cost.

I'm currently playing three solo mek gunz (Traktors or KMKs) pretty much everytime and they perform much better than four 8th edition Smasha Gunz, for the same cost.

I was thinking about wartrike today and I see this - it dies anyway and hits like a squig sendwich anyway, so why to boost durability or strength.

So let' s give a try with Big Gob trait to increase the Badskull anti obsec aura from 6” to 9”.

Becuase that is what' s the watrike good in - her deny obsec scored me a serious ammount of points in last games and the only problem was, that 6” is not enough to park behind the terrain or wagons /trukks / boyz / MANz and cover most of the objective with anti obsec aura.. So it makes wartrike to go to CC. And beacause it pretty sucks there, it dies. Banner lost.

Keep wartrike away and still cover by aura = problem solved.

Support the strong points, eridicate the weak points!

My Warhammer app hasn't updated yet, doesn't even acknowledge the existence of the new Ork book.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
My Warhammer app hasn't updated yet, doesn't even acknowledge the existence of the new Ork book.

Patient. If it’s same as other faction codex earlier then Warhammer community will announce it.
Oh yeah, Android get it first before Apple.

Solidcrash wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:
My Warhammer app hasn't updated yet, doesn't even acknowledge the existence of the new Ork book.

Patient. If it’s same as other faction codex earlier then Warhammer community will announce it.
Oh yeah, Android get it first before Apple.

Had to uninstall and reinstall to remedy the issue. There was a surprising amount of stuff missing from my app that wasn't updating.

Oh my god! Yeah your right!

Madjob wrote:


I think it's more complex than that. They don't get that much out of most kulturs.

I think both the KBB and Burna boyz benefit more from Blood Axe kultur than from Pyromaniacs. Fall back and shoot is simply really good for them. And with the BA Warlord trait you can deepstrike 3 units for free, wich certainly would benefit burnaboyz with their 12" range.

I generally think that Blood Axe kultur is much stronger than the (otherwise excellent) first page ratings suggests. Fall back and shoot is good on buggies and warbikes, some of our strongest units. It would also be good on the tellyporta bik mek or the squig nobs. On top of that, getting a 3+ armorsave on your trukks turn 1 is also quite nice.

On the other hand, Pyromaniacs is pretty lacklustre. It boosts the average number of hits from 3.5 to 4, and you lose out on kultur, and you lose out on trukkboyz.

As for mek-gunz, they are outstanding in units of exactly one. Especially the KMK.

 Jidmah wrote:

russellmoo wrote:
Sorry the emphasis in that post should have been on that orks can’t sit backand shoot.

Orks can move and shoot but any unit that used to stay still and shoot either got changed to be more mobile, got worse, or both

Well I can agree with that, though I really don't feel like any units got worse except mek guns. Even in regards to buggies where all of them are outperformed by scrapjets and squigbuggies, each individual buggy got better than they were in the previous codex, just not as much as the big two.

The buggies didn't all get better. Losing the cool custom jobs, the ability to split off at deployment, and the better Deffskull rules makes them worse...but they are cheaper so I feel like it is a wash.

 Geemoney wrote:

The buggies didn't all get better. Losing the cool custom jobs, the ability to split off at deployment, and the better Deffskull rules makes them worse...but they are cheaper so I feel like it is a wash.

Don ' t afraid of it. Dragsta is obviously worse than before, even after discount. His 50% chance of telyporting makes him utterly useless.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Solidcrash wrote:
Hey Ork players!
I just brought the new Ork codex
Haven’t been played it since assault at black reach edition.
Here my collection since 2nd edition. Any useful?

Spoiler:

•58 grots (50 of it are oop)
•2 runt herds
•1 ammo grot
•17 Nobs
•15 Lootas
•12 Burnas + 5 unbuild = 17
•5 kommo
•boss sriklot
•16 ‘ard boyz
•9 ‘ard Shoota
•8 tank busta
•9 heavy shoota
•2 rokkia
•52 Boyz (half of it are oop)
•Warboss
•Warboss on biker (oops bikers convert)
•6 Deffcopter
•2 oops megaarmour Nob
•2 Mek Boyz
•1 Deffnought from 2nd edition, look small?
•1 Stompa

The deffkopters, warboss, kommandos, and burnas are good. The boyz will be usefull as well, if you can scrounge a trukk for them. Regards

XC18 wrote:
They updated the Transport rule in the Trukk datasheet itself: [...This model has a transport capacity of 12 Flash Gitz, Specialist mob Infantry or <Clan> Infantry models...]

so...what can I tell to my OnlyCompetitive group?
Trukk now can transport FG/Specialist and Cultur but what about it? Doesn't it need to be Specialist too?

Please help a stupid grot to understand

Tnx

 Tomsug wrote:

 Geemoney wrote:

The buggies didn't all get better. Losing the cool custom jobs, the ability to split off at deployment, and the better Deffskull rules makes them worse...but they are cheaper so I feel like it is a wash.

Don ' t afraid of it. Dragsta is obviously worse than before, even after discount. His 50% chance of telyporting makes him utterly useless.

I don't know about that. It also got an extra rokkit shot on average and you can still hit on 3+ during after tellyporting (or failing to do so) during a speedwaaagh. You can also re-roll the jump because it's just an advance roll.
In addition, it now got the same improved saws as squigbuggies, which make it almost as deadly in combat as the scrapjet. Ramshackle also made them a bit harder to kill.

As I've explained multiple times in the past, I wasn't a huge fan of the auto-jump kustom job in the old codex, my opponents always screen properly against it and if I did jump-assassinate something it always ended with all of the SJD dead. Holding To me it essentially was a trap upgrade that never once was worth the CP. Thus the SJD is now a lot better when you just use it a fast gunboat that forces to the opponent to plan for you jumping.

Don't get me wrong, I would probably agree that it's currently the worst of the buch - but it's nowhere in the ballpark of the old snazzwagon or squigbuggy.

As for the other kustom jobs - squigbuggy and snazzwagon kept theirs AND got significantly better, KBB was questionable at best and the extra attacks on all its weapons make up for losing 1 MW per shooting phase, the wartrike got most of the roar of gork for free rolled into the datasheet.
The only real loss was korkscrew, but no one is going to argue that scrapjets got worse.

Any yes, deffskulls got nerfed to the ground, but with freebootas and bloodaxes as viable alternatives, how much does that really matter?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 OddGoblin wrote:

XC18 wrote:
They updated the Transport rule in the Trukk datasheet itself: [...This model has a transport capacity of 12 Flash Gitz, Specialist mob Infantry or <Clan> Infantry models...]

so...what can I tell to my OnlyCompetitive group?
Trukk now can transport FG/Specialist and Cultur but what about it? Doesn't it need to be Specialist too?

Please help a stupid grot to understand

Tnx

I'm not sure what there is to understand? It can transport Flash Gits, Specialist Mob Infantry of any kind no matter what the trukk's clan is OR transport a unit that shares a clan with it.

 Tomsug wrote:
I was thinking about wartrike today and I see this - it dies anyway and hits like a squig sendwich anyway, so why to boost durability or strength.

So let' s give a try with Big Gob trait to increase the Badskull anti obsec aura from 6” to 9”.

Becuase that is what' s the watrike good in - her deny obsec scored me a serious ammount of points in last games and the only problem was, that 6” is not enough to park behind the terrain or wagons /trukks / boyz / MANz and cover most of the objective with anti obsec aura.. So it makes wartrike to go to CC. And beacause it pretty sucks there, it dies. Banner lost.

Keep wartrike away and still cover by aura = problem solved.

Support the strong points, eridicate the weak points!

Does the freebootas turn off obsec relic count as an aura? The +1 to hit warbosses give out is labeled "aura". However the kff does specify that it can't be increased by anything whereas the badskull banner doesn't.

If you can big gob it up you may be on to something. I currently have da badskull banner on a squigasaur boss as I want to call a waaaagh. I've Ard as nails and BBk on 2 other warbosses so was wondering what third trait would be good. I'm actually toying with "inspired leader" trait from the rulebook. +1 ld for all friendlies nearby isn't bad.

It's not tagged as an aura.

 Jidmah wrote:
It's not tagged as an aura.

Damn!

GW is so inconsistent about labelling things as auras correctly I'm not convinced that it isn't supposed to be. Maybe we'll see.
Generally if something is not an aura is explicitly called out as such (DG contagions).

If it isn't, at least it can't be turned off though.

Turning off auras is so 2020

On reddit the folowing list is being discussed, I think it looks OK, but not much stuff to hold objectives.
Don't know if it is much fun to play. I got destryed by an Ad mech friend of mine last friday, because I went second mostly, with a similar list, with slightly less shooting and 11 sguig riders (4,4 and 3), (but no wazbomb, which is mandatory IMHO for that sort of build, but I have converted on since hah hah).
The list has no adaptability though, it will always play the same way I think
.

++ Outrider Detachment -3CP (Orks 2021) [61 PL, 1,030pts, 9CP] ++

Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Clan Kultur: Freebooterz

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

HQ +

“Kaptin Gromit” Deffkilla Wartrike [7 PL, 135pts]: 3. Junkboss (Speed Freeks), Da Badskull Banner, Shokka Hull, Warlord

Fast Attack +

Scrappy Megatrakk Scrapjets [5 PL, 90pts] . Megatrakk Scrapjet

Scrappy Megatrakk Scrapjets [5 PL, 90pts] . Megatrakk Scrapjet

Scrappy Megatrakk Scrapjets [5 PL, 90pts] . Megatrakk Scrapjet

Squabbling Rukkatrukk Squigbuggies [7 PL, 115pts]: Nitro Squigs . Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy

Squabbling Rukkatrukk Squigbuggies [5 PL, 90pts] . Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy

Squabbling Rukkatrukk Squigbuggies [5 PL, 90pts] . Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy

Heavy Support +

Meek Mek Gunz [3 PL, 45pts] . Mek Gun: Kustom Mega Kannon

Meek Mek Gunz [3 PL, 45pts] . Mek Gun: Kustom Mega Kannon

Flyer +

Damn Dakkajet [8 PL, 120pts]: 2x Additional Supa Shoota

Damn Dakkajet [8 PL, 120pts]: 2x Additional Supa Shoota

++ Outrider Detachment -3CP (Orks 2021) [54 PL, 970pts, -3CP] ++

Configuration +

Clan Kultur: No Clan / Specialist Mob

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

HQ +

“Fonzie” Big Mek w/ Kustom Force Field [5 PL, 85pts]

Fast Attack +

Dramatic Shokkjump Dragstas [6 PL, 95pts]: Gyroscopic Whirlygig . Shokkjump Dragstas

Dramatic Shokkjump Dragstas [5 PL, 85pts] . Shokkjump Dragstas

Dramatic Shokkjump Dragstas [5 PL, 85pts] . Shokkjump Dragstas

Wacky Warbikers [4 PL, 75pts] . Boss Nob: Choppa . 2x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 2x Choppa, 4x Dakkagun

Wacky Warbikers [4 PL, 75pts] . Boss Nob: Choppa . 2x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 2x Choppa, 4x Dakkagun

Wacky Warbikers [4 PL, 75pts] . Boss Nob: Choppa . 2x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 2x Choppa, 4x Dakkagun

Heavy Support +

Meek Mek Gunz [3 PL, 45pts] . Mek Gun: Kustom Mega Kannon

Flyer +

Damn Dakkajet [8 PL, 120pts]: 2x Additional Supa Shoota

Blasphemous Wazbom Blastajet [10 PL, 230pts]: 2x Tellyport Mega-Blastas, Blastajet Force Field, 2x Supa Shoota

++ Total: [115 PL, 2,000pts, 6CP] ++

For all 9th edition codices there is little reason to treat anything that's not explicitly labeled as an aura as such. Either they forgot to flag it as such then they will FAQ it, or they intentionally didn't flag it to prevent this interaction.

gungo wrote:

Madjob wrote:
Boosta-blastas confirmed for Pyromaniacs really makes me want to try out a unit of 2, though giving up a trukkboyz slot hurts and I don't want to go to 3 detachments.

Is it really worth it? You lose klan benefits and any klan auras just for your 8in exhausts to have a Min 3 on d6.

This has been one of my pet peeves with this new Codex. None of the specialty mobs are really great. I think Trukk Boyz are good mind you, but the point I am making is that none of them are strong enough to justify the 1 unit per detachment losing their kulture just to gain their minimal upgrade. I think this is just another example of GW over correcting to minimize the chance of a broken unit. Would Trukk Boyz really be broken if they kept their kulture? No. IF there was no limit to number of specialty mobs per detachment than yeah, you could argue that Trukk boyz would be OP. You would probably see competitive players running around with 8-10 Trukk Boyz units all able to charge turn 1. I think the correct nerf was the 1 per detachment and the loss of Kulture was the over correction.

 Jidmah wrote:

russellmoo wrote:
Sorry the emphasis in that post should have been on that orks can’t sit backand shoot.

Orks can move and shoot but any unit that used to stay still and shoot either got changed to be more mobile, got worse, or both

Well I can agree with that, though I really don't feel like any units got worse except mek guns. Even in regards to buggies where all of them are outperformed by scrapjets and squigbuggies, each individual buggy got better than they were in the previous codex, just not as much as the big two.

Mek gunz got worse in the sense that they can't be spammed, Lootas got worse at their normal long range shootas somehow got worse at their normal range, pretty much anything that is the new Dakka weapon type got worse at normal/long range. but as russell pointed out, they got more mobile. Lootas lost ranged dmg but gained move and shoot, personally i think of lootas as useless garbage and have shown how they are terrible compared to every other auto-cannon unit in the game. So merely gaining move/shoot while getting marginally worse at long range doesn't fix their problems at all.

 Blackie wrote:
Mek gunz got worse only in huge numbers and mostly Smashas. Bubblechukkas and Traktors got better profiles, KMKs are now 20 points cheaper which is basically a massive 30% discount. Yes, they suffer from morale but how many ork players did actually have (or want to play) more than 3-6 models? How many heavy support slots do we actually need?

Ok, Smasha spam is dead but for those players who wanted to field 1-3 mek gunz they actually got a nice boost. Maybe even up to 6 mek gunz in 3 squads of 2 would do ok for their cost.

I'm currently playing three solo mek gunz (Traktors or KMKs) pretty much everytime and they perform much better than four 8th edition Smasha Gunz, for the same cost.

And this hits on another annoyance I have with GW. I think Mek Gunz were fine as is, I think they were too pricey $$$ wise but otherwise they were just an efficient shooting unit. But that isn't my main gripe here. Nope, my main annoyance is GW just randomly removed max unit size from them, stormboyz, Bikes etc. I have 36 Warbikers, now the most you can field in a game is 27. I have close to 90 Stormboyz, now the most you can field is 60. I have 11 Mek Gunz, now the most you can ever field is 9 (Mind you probably don't want to bring more than 3).

I wonder if GW realizes how stupid this is for their bottom line? I'm going to hold onto my models because I put the effort into painting/assembling and moving the dam things across this country several times. But I bet you a host of other players are going to get rid of their extras that GW just arbitrarily decided you couldn't bring to a game anymore. And in 6 months GW is going to wonder why Ork sales have dipped in Mek Gunz, Stormboyz, Warbikes and any other units they artificially limited in regards to unit size.

SemperMortis wrote:


I wonder if GW realizes how stupid this is for their bottom line? I'm going to hold onto my models because I put the effort into painting/assembling and moving the dam things across this country several times. But I bet you a host of other players are going to get rid of their extras that GW just arbitrarily decided you couldn't bring to a game anymore. And in 6 months GW is going to wonder why Ork sales have dipped in Mek Gunz, Stormboyz, Warbikes and any other units they artificially limited in regards to unit size.

They wanted ork players to buy other stuff, there's a massive wave of new ork releases in these months.

At the end of the day they only care about the profits, selling 100 of the new kits is better than selling 99 of the new and old kits combined.

I've always been against spamming stuff and skew lists and I think that units working well by getting 1-3 boxes of the same kit is good game design. I'm a fan of getting a bit of everything, and if there's more budget available invest it in a second army or a different game and so on. If a unit needs 6-18 boxes of the same kit to be good only a handful of people will play it, that's awful game design and I'm glad if they change it.

Mek gunz, stormboyz and warbikes are all better compared to previous edition, even if they can't be spammed. And that is actually not even entirely true as you can buy 3 kits of mek gunz, 3-6 kits of stormboyz and 3+ kits of warbikes and still field competitive lists with those units. That's a lot of kits to buy before having redundant/illegal models to field.

Solidcrash wrote:

Trukk or one kind of Battlewagon? My codex don’t arrive yet.

Get a trukk. Or just use a toy-car as a standin. If you like using trukk-boyz, then you can always buy the genuine model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blackie wrote:
If a unit needs 6-18 boxes of the same kit to be good only a handful of people will play it, that's awful game design and I'm glad if they change it.

But they haven't really changed it, they have just put a hard-limit on how much you are allowed to spam a single unit profile. Spamming units is just as good as before, it has just been capped. Ideally the rules would incentivise you to select an army with a diverse selection of units, because the units had synergy and made each other stronger. But in reality, just spamming the best unit in the codex leads to pretty good results. If you could bring 2000 points of Scrapjets you would be extremly hard to beat. But you cant, so people bring the maximum of 9 scrapjets instead. If you could bring kommandos, stormboyz or burna boyz as troops, then people would defnitely try spamming 2000 points of those units. I am pretty happy, that this is not the meta.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:

I wonder if GW realizes how stupid this is for their bottom line?

I think its pretty good for their bottom line. GW seems to have no problem selling their models at rather high prices. They arent going hungry anytime soon.

But I agree with you that the "rule of three" is a pretty artifical limitation. Have you tried running 27 bikes this time around?