It's the same... but different... basically tweaked but with more missions. There is a bit more info over on BOLS uncharacteristically quickly in the article via pics and the comments. If anyone gets this, can you check to see if the FW rules/units and expansions are specifically disallowed like in the Kill Team free event rules posted above?
All models operate independently--ICs can't attach either.
Reserves rule is not used unless a result of rolling a 1 on Leader Trait. Models cannot enter Ongoing Reserve, ever. If only able to be deployed via Deep Strike, deploy them normally.
All units (including vehicles) score unless specifically stated otherwise (Death Company etc.)
Brotherhood of Psykers special rule has no effect.
If, at the start of your turn, you've lost more than half of your models, your force is BROKEN! From that point on, each of your models must make a Break test (LD test) at the start of your Movement Phase, including the turn they were Broken. Starting with your Leader, you take LD tests. If they fail they flee. Vehicles and Fearless ignore this. ATSKNF re-roll this test.
Your Leader has a Command range of 6" (or 12" if he rolls a 4 for his Leader Trait). If he passes his Break test, all friendly models within this range auto pass theirs.
Kill Team Detachment
200 pts from a single Codex or Supplement. Squads are chosen as normal (ie you can't just buy a single Tac Marine)
0-2 Troops
0-1 Elites
0-1 Fast
Must include at least four non-vehicle models. One of these must be your Leader and three must be Specialists.
No models with more than 3 Wounds or Hull Points.
No Flyers.
No 2+ saves.
No vehicles with a combined AV of more than 33.
Leader is automatically character with highest LD. If no characters, Leader is automatically model with highest LD. If several are tied, you choose. Beasts and Swarms cannot be your Leader. If the leader is not already a Character--he (or she) becomes one.
_________________________________________
Leader Traits Table
1 D3+2 non-vehicle models of your choice have Outflank.
2 Sieze on a 4+.
3 Gain +1 VP if your Ldr slays the enemy Ldr in challenge
4 Leader's Command Range is increased to 12" (from 6")
5 Leader can select a Special Rule from one of the categories--but may not be the same category as any other Specialist
6 Leader has Zealot
Specialist Types (You must take three, and you may not have duplicates. Your leader may not be a Specialist unless he rolls a 5 for his Leader Trait)
Combat Specialist allows you to take:
Counter-attack
Furious Charge
Hammer of Wrath
Hatred
Instant Death (CC only)
Rage
Rampage
Weapons Specialist
Haywire (CC only)
Ignores Cover
Master-crafted (One weapon only)
Pinning (Shooting only)
Rending (Shooting only)
Sniper
Split Fire (No LD test required)
Tank Hunter (Shooting only)
Indomitable Specialist
Adamantium Will
Crusader
Eternal Warrior
Fearless
Feel No Pain
Relentless
Strikedown (CC only)
Stubborn
Guerilla Specialist
Fleet
Hit and Run
Infiltrate
Move Through Cover
Night Vision
Preferred Enemy
Scout
Stealth
EXCEPTIONS:
No Warp Storm Table.
No Champsions of Chaos special rule.
Necrons can reanimate only within 2" of another friendly Necron.
All friendly models from a DE Kill Team that have Power from Pain immediately count as having earned one Pain Token for every five enemy non-vehicle models they have killed. Necrons only count as killed after they fail a RP roll.
There are some changes. The special abilities aren't random also no 2+ saves units. That's off the top of my head because I don't feel like going through it with a fine tooth comb. It's better value than the Dataslates but I am sure these rules will be commented upon for tournaments so they will end up free in some form or other. (bah ninja'd)
This seems decent enough. Heralds of Ruin rules are obviously better, but also more involved and have a lot of changes to the standard rules. GW Kill Team is good for 40K players who just want to get a quick skirmish game going without needing to learn bunch of new rules.
Bloodwin wrote: There are some changes. The special abilities aren't random also no 2+ saves units. That's off the top of my head because I don't feel like going through it with a fine tooth comb. It's better value than the Dataslates but I am sure these rules will be commented upon for tournaments so they will end up free in some form or other. (bah ninja'd)
Can you take a quick peek and see if there is a FW/expansion exclusion?
Someone just pointed out on 4chan that, as they're not even mentioned, each individual Sister model could use their own Act of Faith once per game. I guess it's sometimes good to be completely forgotten about by the people writing the rules.
Bronzefists42 wrote: Well it doesn't say you can't run Forge World stuff. So that is good.
Well nothing ever does. I don't think running FW units would pose a problem. I mean, doing 30K Kill-Team could be interesting.
H.B.M.C. wrote: It mentions that units are chosen from any Codex or Codex Supplement. That's it.
Well it doesn't say you can't run Forge World stuff. So that is good.
It also doesn't say in all likelihood that you can't use an outdated 2nd edition codex so what it *DOESN'T* say isn't very insightful unfortunately. Codex and codex supplement from HMBC's post pretty much excludes FW in my book without special permission (which I'd be fine with giving if asked in most cases).
Not including something is the same functionally as excluding it. I agree that the "intent" though is as muddled as ever with GW's "official but you don't have to and we don't either" ruleset.
warboss wrote: Not including something is the same functionally as excluding it. I agree that the "intent" though is as muddled as ever with GW's "official but you don't have to and we don't either" ruleset.
So because the Kill Team rules don't mention (it doesn't include them) bolters no one can use them (because that's the same as excluding them)?
Not being mentioned isn't the same as being excluded.
warboss wrote: Not including something is the same functionally as excluding it. I agree that the "intent" though is as muddled as ever with GW's "official but you don't have to and we don't either" ruleset.
So because the Kill Team rules don't mention (it doesn't include them) bolters no one can use them (because that's the same as excluding them)?
Not being mentioned isn't the same as being excluded.
Well. But it does include bolters, namely when it points to Codexes. Since Codexes explain bolters (or, in turn, reference the BRB), they are included in that reference.
warboss wrote: Codex and codex supplement from HMBC's post pretty much excludes FW in my book without special permission (which I'd be fine with giving if asked in most cases).
BRB doesn't mention FW either. It is exactly the same thing.
Can we at least wait until the releases end on Christmas to have this thread devolve into a FW discussion?
The Kill Team rules are decent. Specialist options are changed a little bit as you now choose from one of 5 categories, and you can only have one specialist from each category (still max of 3) Leader traits are on a d6 instead of 2d6. The mission selection is better. Probably a bit overpriced, but that's a dead horse that doesn't need flogging.
warboss wrote: Not including something is the same functionally as excluding it. I agree that the "intent" though is as muddled as ever with GW's "official but you don't have to and we don't either" ruleset.
So because the Kill Team rules don't mention (it doesn't include them) bolters no one can use them (because that's the same as excluding them)?
Not being mentioned isn't the same as being excluded.
If i tell you "you can have an apple or a banana", does that mean you can also have a "lemon"?. In Math this is defining a group by definition, if what you want is not included on that definition then it is excluded.
Thanks for letting us know. This is the first thing that I even contemplated buying, as I have always thought Kill Team games were a great idea. Figures GW would bungle it in their shameless advent cash grab though.
Nah, you just spend the 200 Points like you're always doing. You're still bound to the regular limits (size) of the specific units though. Let's say you would go for Khorne Berzerkers as they are 1 elite choice and therefore fit the bill. Choosing 8 of them leaves some points to spend on nice equipment and pleases the Blood God. The thing is each and every model acts independently during the game itself. So they're all able to move where you want them to and shoot/fight different models.
If you like, click on my signature. You'll find a short battlereport of a Kill Team match we had recently.
I personally bought the new rules and will check them out asap! The first read was promising.
I have a problem with this being a digital download add on , and costing $12.99. At this rate, maybe for the next edition the rules for terrain , tanks, walkers, challenges. etc,... will also be digital downloads.
So now, in Kill Team, each and every sister model must do a separate Ld test to pass an Act of Faith, and may try to do so only once per game ?
Do rules like scout still work ?
After the battle is over, as the fire burns and the blood dries, tales are told and sagas forged. And no warrior of the Space Wolves is the hero of more stories than Bjorn the Fell-Handed. On Moreal, Finnvid tells of the heroics he witnessed from the ancient Dreadnought as Bjorn battled a foe beyond understanding, but one with which he was strangely familiar…
About the Book
A Lords of the Space Marines short story by Chris Wraight
weather conditions as much as each other. For its part, the harsh winter climate is impartial in its chilling assault. As the snow is stained crimson with the blood of the slain, the hapless combatants are beset by iceshard blizzards and deadly lightning murderstorms.
Warhammer Battle: Blood in the Snow is a new scenario for Warhammer players that pits them not only against each other, but also against the hostile elements. Give it a try and add some seasonal mayhem to your Warhammer battles!
fixxxer76 wrote: I have a problem with this being a digital download add on , and costing $12.99. At this rate, maybe for the next edition the rules for terrain , tanks, walkers, challenges. etc,... will also be digital downloads.
Yeah, and you can also extrude that from now on all purchases will come with a punch to the mouth, and miniatures will be made out of chocolate so that you have to repeatedly replace the ones that melt and/or get eaten, etc.
Kill Team isn't part of the core rules in the way all those other things you describe are. It's always been a separate, supplementary thing. It's been monetised before when it was included (in a very throwaway form) in the Battle Missions book. Concluding from the existence of this product that in the next edition core rules will be left out and sold separately is silly.
Bull0 wrote: Kill Team isn't part of the core rules in the way all those other things you describe are. It's always been a separate, supplementary thing. It's been monetised before when it was included (in a very throwaway form) in the Battle Missions book. Concluding from the existence of this product that in the next edition core rules will be left out and sold separately is silly.
You realise the previous Kill Team rules were free and are still on the GW website yes?
Yeah, they've been linked in this thread. GW have started to charge for a lot of stuff that used to be free, painting guides and the like. It doesn't affect my statement which was that Kill Team isn't part of the core rules and has been monetised in the past.
If it was, they must've left it out of my copy. How strange.
Although, I've only got the paperback one that came with the starter box. But it's got missions and stuff in it, so I figure it'd be in there. Maybe it's in the hardback book. Even if it was (from what I can tell it wasn't) I still wouldn't consider it part of the core rules in the way that terrain or tanks are. Come on now. We're miles off topic anyway. Bad extrusion is bad. Existence of a non-precedent-setting separate Kill Team product does not reasonably lead one to conclude core rules will be standalone in future.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Someone just pointed out on 4chan that, as they're not even mentioned, each individual Sister model could use their own Act of Faith once per game. I guess it's sometimes good to be completely forgotten about by the people writing the rules.
Do you have a link to that thread? I'm ashamed to say I can't find it and I'm hoping it isn't 404.
Kroothawk wrote: It was part of the 4th edition core rulebook IIRC.
Different Kill Team. The one in the BRB was a unit of like 10 models, each who acted independently, against a bunch of "henchmen" and "bosses" chosen by your opponent. They were more infiltration type missions. This Kill Team is totally different, and has not been part of the rulebooks. This kill team is more like the old 40k in 40 minutes or Combat Patrol.
OT, Aside from Belakor, I'm underwhelmed and haven't spent a dime. But I'm also probably not their target audience either (veteran gamer). I was hoping Kill Team would have been expanded, or they would release a Fantasy skirmish, etc. Cypher could be interesting...maybe...
For seven years the Blood Angels have warred against the Great Devourer on Skylos. For seven years they have fought and bled and died. Now, the war is almost over, and only a handful of the sons of Sanguinius remain. As they prepare to make their last stand, thoughts turn to the Sanguinor, said to arrive and bring hope in moments of great peril. But the Sanguinor is just a legend. It isn’t real… is it?
About the Book
A Lords of the Space Marines short story by James Swallow
Beware: Here be monsters. In the Warhammer world there is nothing better at crushing foes underfoot than monsters. Whether you are looking to add new creatures to your collection, or simply want to read about some of the most dangerous creatures to ever stalk the wilds of the Warhammer world, the Scrolls of Binding Compendium is for you.
This collection contains a whole new range of additional monsters that you can use in your Storm of Magic games. Included, you will find such terrifying creatures as the ravenous Giant Cave Squig, the ice behemoth known as the Thunder Tusk and the madness-inducing sludge drake that is the Jabberslythe.
COMPATIBILITY:
This eBook digital edition is compatible with most current generation mobile devices, tablets, computers and eReaders including Android, Kindle and iBooks devices. The exact look and layout of the eBook will depend on the eReader being used.
Supporting the White Scars on Gehöft, Sammael, Master of the Ravenwing, prepares to aid Kor’sarro Khan against the plague-ridden warriors of Chaos. But when an ancient secret is revealed, Sammael must choose between the bonds of brotherhood and pursuit of the oldest foe of his Chapter.
About the Book
A Lords of the Space Marines short story by Ben Counter
There are few Space Marine Chapters that can rival the long and gloried history of the Dark Angels Chapter of Space Marines. Beneath the guise of duty and a taciturn nature, however, the Dark Angels hide a sinister secret, known only to their highest ranking officers. These Masters of the Dark Angels lead their Chapter in two wars – that against the enemy of the Imperium, and another secret war against their failings from the distant past.
In Warlords of the Dark Millennium: Masters of the Dark Angels you will find extended background information on the Supreme Grand Master Azrael, the Grand Master of Librarians – Ezekiel, Master Interrogator Chaplain Asmodai, Belial – Grand Master of the Deathwing, and Sammael – the Grand Master of the Ravenwing. Never forgive, never forget…
About This Series:
The galaxy burns with the fires of countless wars and conflicts, heroes and villains leading their armies in endless battle against their foes. Warlords of the Dark Millennium explores the history, wargear and fighting styles of some of the galaxy’s most powerful warriors.
Joyboozer wrote: Premium digital editions, novellas, for the love of god GW can you just release some bloody novels!
Sadly I think those days are long gone. HH books aren't making it to the NY Times bestseller list anymore, no one seems too excited about anything in the BL news thread on here and it's become practically impossible to collect everything with all the random splash releases (especially now that regular bookstores aren't getting anything in). GW have corrupted BL, all they care about now is squeezing money out of us however they can.
Mainly because they made the stupid and money-grabbing decision to delay the mass-market paperback release until well after the novels are published to force people into buying the overprices trade paperback format. Kind of kills any interest one may have in the series when one has to wait 6 months or a year for the damn book to be released in a particular format. Ludicrous decision...
GW also missed a lot with the advent calendar. Lots of hard substance rules and missions would of been better than spending several dollars/quids on fluff that really doesn't seem to excite many people.
HH books aren't making it to the NY Times bestseller list anymore, no one seems too excited about anything in the BL news thread on here and it's become practically impossible to collect everything with all the random splash releases (especially now that regular bookstores aren't getting anything in). GW have corrupted BL, all they care about now is squeezing money out of us however they can.
I'm starting to think that GW's current management should be nicknamed "passion fingers"...
I've also noticed that their share price has dropped more than £1 in just a few months so the markets have lost some confidence in GW too.
Hopefully this might get GW to look at their current strategy but I won't hold my breath.
I did buy the Kill team ebook & while there some interesting parts I was very disappointed that the special rules are just cut & paste. Many mention that the whole unit gains the ability but in this Kill Team each model is its own unit so this doesn't make sense. Someone should have edited this. If it was edited then maybe someone should get their P45 for Christmas!
Could have been so much better.
WarOne wrote: GW also missed a lot with the advent calendar. Lots of hard substance rules and missions would of been better than spending several dollars/quids on fluff that really doesn't seem to excite many people.
This shouldn't really be a surprise. The people at digital editions are nice and it's good that they respond to questions, but most of their products are just reprints of old rules in a digital format. This month saw fortifications, Apocalypse, and kill team rules reprinted, given a face lift, and sold again through digital editions.
WarOne wrote: GW also missed a lot with the advent calendar. Lots of hard substance rules and missions would of been better than spending several dollars/quids on fluff that really doesn't seem to excite many people.
This shouldn't really be a surprise. The people at digital editions are nice and it's good that they respond to questions, but most of their products are just reprints of old rules in a digital format. This month saw fortifications, Apocalypse, and kill team rules reprinted, given a face lift, and sold again through digital editions.
I have a crazy theory that those may have been experiments, to see if people would buy digital products. Cheaper and easier to use modified old material than come up with something new. If that is true, we may see some better quality stuff later on.
HH books aren't making it to the NY Times bestseller list anymore, no one seems too excited about anything in the BL news thread on here and it's become practically impossible to collect everything with all the random splash releases (especially now that regular bookstores aren't getting anything in). GW have corrupted BL, all they care about now is squeezing money out of us however they can.
I'm starting to think that GW's current management should be nicknamed "passion fingers"...
That is, they feth everything they touch.......
Just like Doomrider.
This just about proves that GW's management snorts copious amounts of Warpdust laced with Cocaine and powdered finecast.
Joyboozer wrote: Premium digital editions, novellas, for the love of god GW can you just release some bloody novels!
Sadly I think those days are long gone. HH books aren't making it to the NY Times bestseller list anymore, no one seems too excited about anything in the BL news thread on here
Probably because Know No Fear was the last decent thing they released, and the astounding lack of content in Betrayer, Promethean Sun, Vulkan Lives, and Unremembered Novel has made it glaringly obvious that the Horus Heresy is a cash cow they're willing to milk for all it's worth, and then continue to milk it to see what else they can get out of it.
Of course, the sad part is, people will continue to buy them, and then when they finally decide to move on and complete the story, it will explode again. Having a predictable and captive target audience makes it possible for them to release total garbage for years on end and still turn a profit. While the benchmark for excitement is still fairly high, the benchmark for purchase is still really low.
Well, I am bummed. Dark Angels are the only 6th edition codex that is STILL waiting for some sort of extra supplement and/or dataslate,
And seriously, GW's idea of representing a warrior who is either (in their words) a lost pilgrim seeking atonement, or mankind's bitterest enemy is sticking him in C:CSM with mankind's bitterest enemies. So all of the fallen now act like CSM no matter what. Like that makes sense.
Now I can't use the fallen at all (yet) because I don't collect chaos marines. I'll just use Cypher as a company master (for now maybe), and continue to wait and see what they will do for DA (if anything).
P.S. It says that he can be used alone, but on the formation page it says that it consists of Cypher and 1-3 units of chosen. So in order to use him I think you have to drop $17 (ridiculous) and at least 1 unit of chosen.
Holy moly, £10? I was expecting to be gouged but at £10, I'm not even going to look at it again. I don't think GW understands the idea of seling things for a low price to get mass sales (hence more model sales too) in the slightest. Who's going to buy this? Anyone? Is anyone here going to do anything other than wait for a leak? Just wow.
Kirasu wrote: Merry Xmas.. Reward for paying money for all their fairly poor supplements is even more price gouging.
Very true. Too many people bought $40 supplements, and they're testing the limit. I think if people actually do buy this it will spell disaster for the future.
Ive bought it and happy with it, its a nice book with some cool new missions which I intend to play and plenty of fluff to read when I get chance. Its defiantly at the high end of what im willing to pay but for Cypher im willing to spend the extra on something ive been waiting many, many years for and rather support this endeavour than moan about it.
Well, he was just leaked. The thing is much longer than I thought, but not £10 worth IMO.
Also, this:
Cypher can be selected as part of a primary detachment from the following codexes: Codex:
Adepta Sororitas, Codex: Blood Angels, Codex: Chaos Space Marines, Codex: Grey Knights,
Codex: Imperial Guard, Codex: Inquisition, Codex: Space Marines or Codex: Space Wolves.
Cypher does not take up any slots from the detachment’s Force Organisation chart. He may
not be included in an army that includes any models from Codex: Dark Angels.
He's... well, he's not great in battle (foot slogging assault characters are just not good) and he's not durable at all but... yeah. I guess he's fluffy?
a friend* already sent me his* copy, gw s reasoning for the price seems to be pure quantity. the document is bigger then the otehr digital stuff and has a dataslate for a chosen+cyper csm unıt and cypher hımself.
the chosen-cypher thing seems fluffy but useless in reality.
Boomstick wrote: Ive bought it and happy with it, its a nice book with some cool new missions which I intend to play and plenty of fluff to read when I get chance. Its defiantly at the high end of what im willing to pay but for Cypher im willing to spend the extra on something ive been waiting many, many years for and rather support this endeavour than moan about it.
pizzaguardian wrote: Eyjio what you copied is true but he is actually a beast in both shor ranged and close combat. Not utterly useless but not the best either
Oh yeah, if you can get him near enemies, he'll shred stuff. The problem is getting him near with only a 6" move (or 6+d6" if doing the blazing weapons run move). I don't really know what I expected but I can't see him getting particularly close to any enemies, so yeah.
pizzaguardian wrote: a friend* already sent me his* copy, gw s reasoning for the price seems to be pure quantity. the document is bigger then the otehr digital stuff and has a dataslate for a chosen+cyper csm unıt and cypher hımself.
the chosen-cypher thing seems fluffy but useless in reality.
Is the dataslate 1/3rd the size of a codex? IE around 33 pages or more because it's 1/3rd the price. This is in no way justified.
Ive bought it and happy with it, its a nice book with some cool new missions which I intend to play and plenty of fluff to read when I get chance. Its defiantly at the high end of what im willing to pay but for Cypher im willing to spend the extra on something ive been waiting many, many years for and rather support this endeavour than moan about it.
All you're doing is playing right into the scheme with that kind of thinking. They spent FIVE minutes writing rules for him, do you really believe they waited years because it was too time consuming? They're showing a complete disregard for your loyalty by charging 17$ for a single model's rules! You're basically saying thank you as they spit in your face.
pizzaguardian wrote: a friend* already sent me his* copy, gw s reasoning for the price seems to be pure quantity. the document is bigger then the otehr digital stuff and has a dataslate for a chosen+cyper csm unıt and cypher hımself.
the chosen-cypher thing seems fluffy but useless in reality.
Is the dataslate 1/3rd the size of a codex? IE around 33 pages or more because it's 1/3rd the price. This is in no way justified.
Ive bought it and happy with it, its a nice book with some cool new missions which I intend to play and plenty of fluff to read when I get chance. Its defiantly at the high end of what im willing to pay but for Cypher im willing to spend the extra on something ive been waiting many, many years for and rather support this endeavour than moan about it.
All you're doing is playing right into the scheme with that kind of thinking. They spent FIVE minutes writing rules for him, do you really believe they waited years because it was too time consuming? They're showing a complete disregard for your loyalty by charging 17$ for a single model's rules! You're basically saying thank you as they spit in your face.
This is exactly the point I wish people would realize. By paying $17 for a model's rules or $40 for a supplement you show GW that all your whining really means nothing, and you will still pay whatever price they set something at.
It is 111 pages when converted to pdf 30 pages of it glossary, 15 pages echose of war and 16 pages altar of war in addition to the 15 pages of unit fluff and rules (think of them like big codex pages i would say) while finishing with 30 pages of fluff.
reqlusiam 71 pages
stormwıng 29 pages
they are all converted by the same internet site so their page number ratio should be around the same.
Although my personal idea that dataslates feel like cheap cash grabs for the work that was put in. Done hastily through november or even december and even worse then day 1 dlc's since those usually have actual work put in them or specifacelly left out of the game. Gw stuff seems like afterthought
Wow positive people really should stay quiet in these parts. Seriously guys did they have to make rules for Cypher no, hes big with older Vets but the game has been moving on without him and has for a long time now. Did they spend time collecting and updating the fluff yes, write 6 new missions yes ( not hard but rather someone else than me) create rules for Cypher that are well thought out interesting and fluffy most certainly. That makes this a good product in my eyes and id rather pay a premium for things like this than not have them at all which is most likely or just have a quick rules reference sheet for him which would be cheaper but less interesting as a whole product.
I have no way to compare the size of the digital book to a real book as if you go by page numbers they're often 3x as big as a codex.. which obviously is false.
Kirasu wrote: I have no way to compare the size of the digital book to a real book as if you go by page numbers they're often 3x as big as a codex.. which obviously is false.
I can!
Digital eldar dex 214pgs
Paper dex 104pgs
The dataslates are a couple paragraphs and 2 pages of rules. They could have easily skipped the fluff and just made it a single page or PDF. But those days are over and we have people like Boomstick polluting the hobby with his justifications and support of bad behaviour while looking down on those that don't think its right.
I honestly just find it sad that this is the direction GW has gone in- gouging as much as possible on rules! Not even in paper, just digital format, and what, $10 less than an army book for Warmachine?
Obviously there is no obligation to pick these rules/missions up, but I feel that it represents GW's opinion of their customers, which is of sheep ready to be bled dry, no thanks for the business or loyalty, just "buy this and get the hell out."
I actually feel guilty about buying the adepta sororitas codex- I feel like I've helped encourage this new level of cost per content
Eyjio wrote: Also, this:
Cypher can be selected as part of a primary detachment from the following codexes: Codex:
Adepta Sororitas
That just seems wrong to me.
Kirasu wrote: They're showing a complete disregard for your loyalty by charging 17$ for a single model's rules! You're basically saying thank you as they spit in your face.
Well, I'm pretty sure we all did, at one point. I bought my Adepta Sororitas codex. And before that, I bought my TWO White Dwarfs. Have you never done something similar ?
So I'm not missing something -- the Cypher book is just crazy expensive?
Seriously, it seems like someone went a bit mad pricing it. And I'm pretty pleased with the supplements, so it's not like I'm pushing that hard on them.
Anyone who purchases that product gives them reason to keep prices that high.
edit: I avoided the Be'lakor dataslate because I didn't want to buy the mini. I already have a Cypher mini, but once I saw the price I was scared off. Hm.
Oddly I like Belakor better and will pass on Cypher. Way to go GW (man you dumb). Missed a good chance for an excellent Christmas gesture you Sadducee executives.
Kirasu wrote: I have no way to compare the size of the digital book to a real book as if you go by page numbers they're often 3x as big as a codex.. which obviously is false.
I can!
Digital eldar dex 214pgs
Paper dex 104pgs
The dataslates are a couple paragraphs and 2 pages of rules. They could have easily skipped the fluff and just made it a single page or PDF. But those days are over and we have people like Boomstick polluting the hobby with his justifications and support of bad behaviour while looking down on those that don't think its right.
Yet you and the others are looking down and insulting him, Rather hypocritical don'tcha think?
But still, it is very expensive, but turning on each other isn't going to help..
"Don't support dumb gak, or all you will get is more dumb gak"
He is not only supporting dumb gak, but getting defensive about it. Calling him out on it is a pointless attempt on my part to get him to use his brain. But that wont happen, because no one ever looks at what is written on the internet and says "You know what? He has a point".
The reality is, the problem of GW gouging and price raising is all our faults. Every time you help them it just enables them from doing the right thing and encourages this price gouging nonsense.
All you're doing is playing right into the scheme with that kind of thinking. They spent FIVE minutes writing rules for him, do you really believe they waited years because it was too time consuming? They're showing a complete disregard for your loyalty by charging 17$ for a single model's rules! You're basically saying thank you as they spit in your face.
Hell, if you play the damn game at all I'm pretty sure you're saying thank you while they spit in your face. You may not be saying thank you with a mouthful of their spit, but you sure are rubbing it all over your face in front of the camera. The rules aren't that great. They aren't all that tight, or balanced, or fast, or detailed, or anything really. About the only thing I can say that is good about 40k from a rational view is that it has a lot of players and a bigger community, which can make it a little easier to get a game; of course, since this just means you can spend more time playing a mediocre game certainly minimizes this advantage.
So, yeah, just about everyone reading this thread is a bit off in the head. Either they're spending time playing a mediocre game, or they're... spending time reading about something they don't really care about. So what? Seriously. Why even bother caring about it; either for yourself or others? Unless bills are going unpaid because of 40k it just isn't that important.
So you can just choose to not analyze the game. Well, many of us can choose that; I suppose some of us can't and that's okay. If I just sit back and think about 'Giant robots the size of mountains.. with frikkin' lasers on their head.' 40k is pretty damn awesome. $17 for some rules? Yeah, that's a bit steep. $33 for Stronghold, $50 for a codex, and $75 for the BRB are all more than I think is an entirely fair price for what you get, but whatever. Giant. Freaking. Robots. Mount St. Skullmore. Flying robo-babies dragging missile-launching assault rifles. Whatever. I have more hobby money than hobby time, really, and frankly given the choice between spending half an hour trying to decide if a $17 is a worthwhile purchase or just buying it and spending half an hour enjoying myself, I'd rather do the later. (I happen to be enjoying venting some steam here.)
So instead of fetishizing Games Workshop's attitude towards customers as some sort of grimdark bukkake, maybe just sit back and focus on what's fun. Of course, if complaining about GW's prices is what's fun, I guess I can just file it under different strokes et. al.
Bitter irony. I play and collect Dark Angels. For X-mas, I got Cypher the Fallen Angel because I jumped the gun and asked for it. Thanks GW for overpricing his rules (so I wont be getting them), and making him unaccessable even in apocalypse. Way to mess up a cool x-mas present.
Thus I have dubbed the new alliance level for Cypher and Dark Angels..."Come thee apocalypse, then still hell no".
bubber wrote: I've also noticed that their share price has dropped more than £1 in just a few months so the markets have lost some confidence in GW too.
Hopefully this might get GW to look at their current strategy but I won't hold my breath.
I do feel they may have laid in with the awesome stick a little too much perhaps. He's a high points value - more than Kharn but less than Ahriman. He can fire 4 shots per shooting phase - 2 with each pistol, or he can fire one shot with each then run! He also has eternal warrior, shrouded, fleet, infiltrate, and hit and run (it's like they shook out an xmas stocking and every special rule fell out!).
He can join pretty much any Imperial army except Dark Angels (which was kind of to be expected) and can join Chaos Space Marines too. He can never be your warlord and your HQ takes a -1Ld for having him around. There's a special rule about giving Dark Angels bonus Victory Points, and one for him escaping into the warp to try and deny them that. And he uses his pistols in close combat so that half his attacks are Str 4 AP 5, and half are Str 7 AP 2! At I8!!! Oh, and his plasma pistol never gets hot.
There's also a data sheet for including him and up to 3 units of Fallen in an army (basically Chaos Chosen - could be a fun unit to add to some guard though!).
That's it from me for now though, have a merry xmas folks!
Lansirill wrote: So instead of fetishizing Games Workshop's attitude towards customers as some sort of grimdark bukkake, maybe just sit back and focus on what's fun. Of course, if complaining about GW's prices is what's fun, I guess I can just file it under different strokes et. al.
Or you could pick a sensible position somewhere between the extreme ends of the scale and enjoy GW's stuff when it's earned it while calling them out when it has clearly not?
€ 13.- for a digital product like this is simply insane. This is not a premium price, it's an insult, and while I don't agree with the tone of the replies Boomstick got, I would say that motivating other players not to support gak GW puts out is more responsible than just sitting back and complaining. Or would you honestly like to see more like that?
If you want to support something GW made recently, go and buy Sigmar's Blood, I did yesterday (my first GW purchase in years to boot). Full of actual new content, almost no "have some photos of our models" pages, printed, translated, and with a price tag that is high, but not so far detached from reality it's practically in Narnia. You know, kinda like ALL of their releases before they saw "buying from GW" as their customers' favorite hobby.
Feth... I woke up and said "OK, I will buy Cypher, who cares I dont play him, its fluff, I can buy model...and for about 4-6 euro..."
...GAK?! 13 euro? Is this a joke? Nope. Nope, nope, nope. Simply nope. I am OK with reasonable price for one model digital-only addons. But this is not reasonable price.
Boomstick wrote: Ive bought it and happy with it, its a nice book with some cool new missions which I intend to play and plenty of fluff to read when I get chance. Its defiantly at the high end of what im willing to pay but for Cypher im willing to spend the extra on something ive been waiting many, many years for and rather support this endeavour than moan about it.
At least they have you well trained.
I find it strange that someone is not allowed to be happy with it. Obviously the worth of it is different to different people.
It's also disappointing that he can work for erruhbuddy and their mom, but no dark angels (even if represented as fallen, etc).
Disappointing, and i'll be passing on the Cypher dataslate (and he's my favorite character from the fluff). I don't want to support this amount of price bloat inflation.
The sad part about all this is that no matter how much people want to sit on their high horse, scoff at GW and say "I will never support their ridiculous prices by not buying their things!", GW is never going to change. Someone out there is still going to buy their "inflated priced stuff". It's not changed since GW first started their price hikes, and it won't change anytime soon either. In the end, community members either put down their pitchforks, sigh, and resort to paying the prices, or quit.
Personally, I don't mind throwing down the cash given the amount of lore and fluff in it, in addition to the rules. Everyone else who just wants the rules can just print out the rules leaks floating around the internet.
More on Cypher/tactics discussion over here, if anyone is interested.
but there is a decent amount of other stuff there too in terms of background etc
so expensive, but no worse than the supplements
buy it if you want to know about Cypher (and maybe use him in game although from what I see he's probably too expensive for what he offers unless you've got a 'cunning plan')
Haight wrote: 17.00 for rules for one model is ludicrous.
It's also disappointing that he can work for erruhbuddy and their mom, but no dark angels (even if represented as fallen, etc).
Disappointing, and i'll be passing on the Cypher dataslate (and he's my favorite character from the fluff). I don't want to support this amount of price bloat inflation.
Why does everyone keep saying it's just for the rules? It's six missions, a formation, and near 115 pages.
At least say it's rules and 'shoddy fluff' or something.
Wow, some people in here are pretty butthurt over nothing. This is the way GW is going to operate going forward, deal with it. Yeah GW used to be better, but now its changed. That's life.
As for me, I bought the rules and love it. I've had this model sitting around for years and now I can play him with official rules instead of house rules.
I actually like the fact that he can't ally with Dark Angels. In fact, Dark Angels are the only army that he should absolutely not be able to ally with. The Dark Angels as they are organized now did not exist when Cypher was in the Legion. C:SM would be the best codex to really represent an army of "Fallen" Dark Angels as they were more like the more vanilla legions at the time of the heresy.
Lansirill wrote: So instead of fetishizing Games Workshop's attitude towards customers as some sort of grimdark bukkake, maybe just sit back and focus on what's fun. Of course, if complaining about GW's prices is what's fun, I guess I can just file it under different strokes et. al.
Or you could pick a sensible position somewhere between the extreme ends of the scale and enjoy GW's stuff when it's earned it while calling them out when it has clearly not?
Oh, sure I can. I tend to buy the things I want and not buy the things I don't, which seems pretty darn sensible. Then again I wasn't exactly striving for a completely sensible post; grimdark bukkake isn't going to win many debates after all. Well, it isn't going to win many that aren't going to require a sad shower afterwards at least.
I don't have a problem that some people value things differently than I do. Heck, I'm not going to go out and buy Sigmar's Blood because I barely play Fantasy (I'd much rather play KoW.) I do have a problem with people running about, suggesting that people are engaging in some kind of corporate S&M just because they happen to buy something that's a bit overpriced. Hell, even if it was ridiculously overpriced I'd find it offensive. Perhaps I wouldn't find it so personally offensive if we were talking about the Ultimate Space Marine Codex for $250 because I have no interest in buying that myself, but really the principle is the same.
Ok I've been silent for a long time here on Dakka. I have to say I don't approve of GWs pricing, but there have been enough discussions cluttering the internet about this. The highprice tag is because of a few things. You get the Cyphers rules (usually like 3-4 dollars) the rules for the formation (another 4 bucks) and then the rules, stats, and completel wargear options for the Chosen. So it's essentially 3 of GWs releases in one. Now for the love of all that is pure and holy could we stop complaining about every single move GW makes? I know they tend to screw the players, but if you don't like it then please move on or at least stop ranting about all of it. On to the Rules:
Cypher has ATSKNF, Shrouded, Infiltrate, Eternal Warrior, Independent Character, fleet, and hit and run. I included the rules his wargear gave him as well. He can fire both pistols twice. Bolt pistol has 16" range and plasma 12". Plasma does not get hot. He also has lots of situational rules for playing against DA including buffing them and providing more VPs if he is killed or lives (for the respective sides). Also unless an enemy unit is within 6" of him when he is killed the opponent does not gain an victory points for him at all (including destroying the unit, first blood etc.) He also cannot be the Warlord and the warlord that has Cypher attached to his army suffers -1 LD. Then there is the rule about his attacks. Half(rouded down) are S4 AP5 and the lesser half are S7 AP2.
As for use, I think he's cool, good, and falls in line with most of the CSM characters. If you coupled him with Abby (making Chosen troops), you could have 3 5 man chosen units that are troops/scoring outflanking on to the board late in the game to obj grab/contest. Just tossing out initial ideas is all.
Yeah, shut your pie-holes, pay your money and keep insuring my dividend payments.
I don't get the joy here; he's just going to get mowed down by rapid fire before he gets within pistol range. Heck a Tau firewarrior squad with an ethereal nearby could do for him quite nicely in one turn.
Lansirill wrote: .
I don't have a problem that some people value things differently than I do. Heck, I'm not going to go out and buy Sigmar's Blood because I barely play Fantasy (I'd much rather play KoW.) I do have a problem with people running about, suggesting that people are engaging in some kind of corporate S&M just because they happen to buy something that's a bit overpriced. Hell, even if it was ridiculously overpriced I'd find it offensive. Perhaps I wouldn't find it so personally offensive if we were talking about the Ultimate Space Marine Codex for $250 because I have no interest in buying that myself, but really the principle is the same.
Fair enough. As I said, accusing people of "engaging in corporate S&M" is the tone I do not agree with. Likewise, I do not think equating someone lamenting a €13 pricetag on 30-odd pages of a digital publication with somebody engaging in "grimdark bukkake" if he doesn't ragequit the entire game is really helpful.
He suffers from a lack of an invulnerable save and no Independent Character, so he will die the instant someone focuses on him. However, if you can get him close, he will do his damage.
I initially balked at the price, but I'm awash in iTunes gift cards (Christmas and all) so I took the plunge. It's a ton of fluff, 6 missions, and the rules. I'm glad I got it, because it is a neat read, and I'm going to enjoy using him to grief Dark Angel players.
DaddyWarcrimes wrote: He suffers from a lack of an invulnerable save and no Independent Character, so he will die the instant someone focuses on him. However, if you can get him close, he will do his damage.
I initially balked at the price, but I'm awash in iTunes gift cards (Christmas and all) so I took the plunge. It's a ton of fluff, 6 missions, and the rules. I'm glad I got it, because it is a neat read, and I'm going to enjoy using him to grief Dark Angel players.
He has Independent Character. So he can give ATSKNF, Shrouded, Hit & Run, and Infiltrate to a unit he is attached to.
Kerrathyr wrote: He's BS 10, so... Manning a quadgun behind an ADL?
Recording from Air-Control Tower #344-Y.
Voices of General Walters and Flight Captain Sanderson "Sir!!!"
"What is it Flight Captain?"
"The entire third squadron! They're just... gone!"
"What do you mean gone, Captain?"
"They're all dead sir. Every last one of them."
"That's impossible. Those artillery boys have been hammering them for three straight months. They don't have rocks to throw at our jets, let alone an effective anti-air network."
"I know that sir, but it wasn't their AA network."
"Then what was it?"
"One man sir. One Space Marine."
"Preposterous!"
"Just one man, standing near a free-standing quad-gun. He just took out one plane after another."
"Well just throw more planes at him! If the Guard do it that way, the Navy can do it that way. Send 6th and 7th squadrons. Bomb him into oblivion."
"Yes General Walters. Right away."
Report Addendum: 6th and 7th Squadron were destroyed within the hour. General Walters was executed for gross misconduct. The remaining Navy personnel were recalled, but their ship was shot down by the same quad-runner. Imperial records no show the world as "heavy defended", as nothing can get near it without being shot down. May the Emperor grant us mercy!
Somehow I think putting Cypher on a gun turret would be a big... ignoble.
Honestly, all of you crying about the price are not looking at the content. It is not simply rules for one model. It is rule for cypher, rules for fallen, 6 new missions, and fluff. If you don't like the price don't buy it that is fine. That is capitalism. Demand and supply determine market price. They have predicted that demand would be high and they control the entire supply so they have set a high market price for a "premium" or "exclusive" item. Not buying it is not going to change their pricing because in a monopoly situation like we have here the owners of the supply can set whatever price they want.
rothrich wrote: Honestly, all of you crying about the price are not looking at the content. It is not simply rules for one model. It is rule for cypher, rules for fallen, 6 new missions, and fluff. If you don't like the price don't buy it that is fine. That is capitalism. Demand and supply determine market price. They have predicted that demand would be high and they control the entire supply so they have set a high market price for a "premium" or "exclusive" item. Not buying it is not going to change their pricing because in a monopoly situation like we have here the owners of the supply can set whatever price they want.
I think people came for just the rules and were simply disappointed.
If that was strictly the case with the price and the rules for that price, I'd agree.
However, given the total package, it could be worth it.
DaddyWarcrimes wrote: He suffers from a lack of an invulnerable save and no Independent Character, so he will die the instant someone focuses on him. However, if you can get him close, he will do his damage.
I initially balked at the price, but I'm awash in iTunes gift cards (Christmas and all) so I took the plunge. It's a ton of fluff, 6 missions, and the rules. I'm glad I got it, because it is a neat read, and I'm going to enjoy using him to grief Dark Angel players.
He has Independent Character. So he can give ATSKNF, Shrouded, Hit & Run, and Infiltrate to a unit he is attached to.
Not sure how I missed that. And since he is part of the Primary detachment rather than an ally, he can ride in a drop pod or a Stormraven.
Lansirill wrote: .
I don't have a problem that some people value things differently than I do. Heck, I'm not going to go out and buy Sigmar's Blood because I barely play Fantasy (I'd much rather play KoW.) I do have a problem with people running about, suggesting that people are engaging in some kind of corporate S&M just because they happen to buy something that's a bit overpriced. Hell, even if it was ridiculously overpriced I'd find it offensive. Perhaps I wouldn't find it so personally offensive if we were talking about the Ultimate Space Marine Codex for $250 because I have no interest in buying that myself, but really the principle is the same.
Fair enough. As I said, accusing people of "engaging in corporate S&M" is the tone I do not agree with. Likewise, I do not think equating someone lamenting a €13 pricetag on 30-odd pages of a digital publication with somebody engaging in "grimdark bukkake" if he doesn't ragequit the entire game is really helpful.
as the old saying goes....
I don't think you know what your saying here.... BUT....
I'd honestly pay double the price of that book to see that.
rothrich wrote: Not buying it is not going to change their pricing because in a monopoly situation like we have here the owners of the supply can set whatever price they want.
This is not true. Monopolies don't have to worry about competing products when making pricing decisions, but they still have to worry about price vs. demand. If the result of selling $15 "book" like this is that a couple of people buy it and everyone else pirates the rules or ignores it entirely then GW will have to lower the price until more people feel that it's a good enough deal to pay for the rules instead of stealing them.
(Of course that's assuming they're a sensible business. They might instead try raising the prices to extract more money from the few customers and give up on trying to make any sales from the pirates.)
Oh good god, I looked up the price for Cypher this morning on my iPad and its 20.99 Canadian. What the actual feth.... Its 67 ipad pages, which with pictures works out to less then 20. You can buy hundred page graphic novels for less that are full colour.
Benamint wrote: but there have been enough discussions cluttering the internet about this.
I feel the same way about Tau-bashing threads, too, but that doesn't stop people from making new threads literally every week reminding everyone that they're a "lame faction" and don't "fit in", does it?
Much like how those people are still holding out hope that Tau will get Squatted, after twelve fething years with no sign of them going anywhere, maybe if we hold our breath and stomp our feet long enough GW will finally listen and give us free models!
Anyway, personally I don't care how many pages of fluff there are, it's not worth $17 because none of it is actually "new", it's just a very lengthy re-telling of what we already know about the character purposely padded out to try and justify a higher price tag. He's still "shrouded in mystery" and we don't know any more about him than we already did, he's still doing the same gak he was before with no clear aim or goal...the 40k universe hasn't advanced at all with this release and we're all exactly where we were before so why does anyone care? I'm just curious, because I haven't heard a single person talk about the actual content of said fluff and instead use it's mere existence as justification for the money they spent, but is there really anything there that makes it worth buying for that alone? Or is it all regurgitated crap with some pointless "new" fluff that doesn't really add anything to the universe or deepen your understanding of the character (because that would ruin the myyysteryyyy!), like I suspect it is?
I wont claim I know how it works, but why in the blue feth is a digital copy more expensive and why is the british pound being used for price setting. Its not like its coming from a factory in England.
Pissed me off on Christmas, didn't that was possible GW, thanks donkey-caves.
I wont claim I know how it works, but why in the blue feth is a digital copy more expensive and why is the british pound being used for price setting. Its not like its coming from a factory in England.
Pissed me off on Christmas, didn't that was possible GW, thanks donkey-caves.
Because GW are a UK company and are doing there accounting in GBP. They will give the price to apple in GBP and apple will pay then in GBP. Apple therefor convert that to local currency and set the price. At current exchange rates £11.99 is CA$20.25. Rounded up is CA$20.99. Doesn't matter where it comes from, it matters what currency the company is working in. If they worked in local currency they would have exchange issues left right and centre.
It dose seem a little expensive IMO, but I like it. I will probably get some use out of it and it made a mini I own playable, but I just need to work out how. Possibly in a C:SM force using my DA minis as a loyalist fallen force. I like the idea of repentant fallen.
Wait people still complaining about price? I mean some people are mocking or putting down people for buying something they want, yet they play with plastic toy soldiers that are over priced as well, if not even more than the data slates themselves.
Davor wrote: Wait people still complaining about price? I mean some people are mocking or putting down people for buying something they want, yet they play with plastic toy soldiers that are over priced as well, if not even more than the data slates themselves.
I know right? It's like these people don't even want to participate in the best part of the GW hobby, buying things from GW
My main gripe is why they haven't reprinted the miniature on the website or used the repaint from the data slate online. It's a god awful job and doesn't sell the miniature at all!
Sidstyler wrote: Because GW's contempt for its own customers transcends even the holiday spirit.
Meanwhile Valve is giving away Left for Dead 2 for free on steam.
Yeah, they're giving away a six-year-old product. GW digital should do the same with this new product. Because of reasons!
£10 is miles too expensive, though. When the other dataslates are like £2.50, it's not even consistent with them. They're trying to trade off on the popularity of the character, which all feels pretty sleazy. Ironically they've probably sunk a lot of that popularity by associating him with a dodgy price gouge.
I love the Cypher repaint. Puts the old one to shame.
Bull0 wrote: Yeah, they're giving away a six-year-old product. GW digital should do the same with this new product. Because of reasons!
Actually the product is kind of the same. The Cypher "book" might be a new product, but it's probably not a very profitable one. The content is pretty minimal, so unless GW sells it at a very low price most people are probably going to ignore it or pirate it. On the other hand, it probably didn't take much time or money to create, so giving it away isn't losing much money. So in both cases you're talking about giving away a product with limited profit potential as a holiday celebration to promote the brand as a whole.
Unfortunately GW doesn't seem to understand the concept of taking a loss on one thing so that you make a better profit elsewhere, so we're stuck with more overpriced garbage.
Don't play GW games if you don't want to pay. Simple as that, you know what you're getting into with the company, so there's no point complaining about it, just vote with your wallet, they're not gonna give a damn about your web forum rant if you go ahead and buy it anyway.
Charging more for the rules is most likely GW's reaction to the fact that you can buy figures just as good as theirs for a quarter of the price from a lot of different companies.
Just another revenue stream, and most people who play GW games have a fair amount of money and are willing to pay (with the odd grumble).
That's exactly what I did with these new releases. I certainly didn't pay $15 for this garbage, and I'm not going to pay $15 for similar garbage in the future.
Charging more for the rules is most likely GW's reaction to the fact that you can buy figures just as good as theirs for a quarter of the price from a lot of different companies.
Except that's an incredibly stupid reaction. If you're already more expensive than everyone else the last thing you want to do is make your products even more expensive, especially when some of your competition is giving away the rules for free. It's a short-sighted milking of the cash cow that gives some short-term revenue at the cost of the long-term success of the game.
Just another revenue stream, and most people who play GW games have a fair amount of money and are willing to pay (with the odd grumble).
Yes, people are willing to pay, but they're willing to pay for quality. This "book" does not offer quality. You're paying the full price of a real book to get the rules for a single unit, a formation which took about 30 seconds to write, and some recycled fluff and model pictures. This is the kind of thing that other companies would give away for free as a random promotional event, not a real product that deserves a $15 price tag.
And I say this as someone who has spent thousands of dollars on a DKoK army, including things like ordering IA12 (the most recent DKoK book) as soon as it was released.
I bought it, enjoyed the content, liked the extra missions and it has enriched my hobby as I'll play them. Worth the money in my opinion. I'd say DKoK is a ridiculous waste, as I don't like the models, have no interest in guard or the fluff really.
Worth is subjective. And just because you've spent hundreds on a hobby, you have no more right to judge the worth than somebody else.
Bull0 wrote: Yeah, they're giving away a six-year-old product. GW digital should do the same with this new product. Because of reasons!
Actually the product is kind of the same. The Cypher "book" might be a new product, but it's probably not a very profitable one. The content is pretty minimal, so unless GW sells it at a very low price most people are probably going to ignore it or pirate it. On the other hand, it probably didn't take much time or money to create, so giving it away isn't losing much money. So in both cases you're talking about giving away a product with limited profit potential as a holiday celebration to promote the brand as a whole.
Unfortunately GW doesn't seem to understand the concept of taking a loss on one thing so that you make a better profit elsewhere, so we're stuck with more overpriced garbage.
None of this is news to me. I can't remember the last smart decision GW made. I can rattle off a catalogue of bad ones. GW are a lot of things, many of which I love, but "astute" isn't one of them.
Not really. Compare what you get from this "book" to what you get from spending the same amount of money on similar alternatives. You can even compare it to GW's own codices if you want, and the comparison does not favor these new digital releases.
And just because you've spent hundreds on a hobby, you have no more right to judge the worth than somebody else.
That's not what I said. That was a response to the idea that GW's customers tend to spend lots of money therefore they will/should spend lots of money on overpriced digital "books". So I provided the counter-example: I'm willing to spend money on high-quality products, but I'm not paying for this garbage.
scarletsquig wrote: Charging more for the rules is most likely GW's reaction to the fact that you can buy figures just as good as theirs for a quarter of the price from a lot of different companies.
Just another revenue stream, and most people who play GW games have a fair amount of money and are willing to pay (with the odd grumble).
Are you actually putting forward the idea that GW charging more for rules in response to other companies putting out equal quality products at a cheaper price as if that were a perfectly fine thing to do?
No problem. I like the fluff, and enjoy playing missions etc where it's not just another game. I'm a big DA player, so if you could recommend me something along those lines it's be grand. For a tenner please. Make sure it hits all those or I won't waste my money on it. I don't spend money on stuff I don't like you see.
The Division Of Joy wrote: No problem. I like the fluff, and enjoy playing missions etc where it's not just another game. I'm a big DA player, so if you could recommend me something along those lines it's be grand. For a tenner please. Make sure it hits all those or I won't waste my money on it. I don't spend money on stuff I don't like you see.
Here's a better idea: spend 15 minutes writing some cool mission ideas of your own. Congratulations, you just made a better product for free.
agnosto wrote: Yeah, shut your pie-holes, pay your money and keep insuring my dividend payments.
I don't get the joy here; he's just going to get mowed down by rapid fire before he gets within pistol range. Heck a Tau firewarrior squad with an ethereal nearby could do for him quite nicely in one turn.
The Division Of Joy wrote: No problem. I like the fluff, and enjoy playing missions etc where it's not just another game. I'm a big DA player, so if you could recommend me something along those lines it's be grand. For a tenner please. Make sure it hits all those or I won't waste my money on it. I don't spend money on stuff I don't like you see.
Here's a better idea: spend 15 minutes writing some cool mission ideas of your own. Congratulations, you just made a better product for free.
Younger generation - couldn't find their rears without their iphones!
Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm assuming you're a similar age to myself i.e we grew up in the 1980s/1990s with warhammer, and back then, you were encouraged by the likes of Rick Priestly to make up your own rules. This generation? No imiganation. If it's not got 'official' approval, they don't want to know, which is sad in a way.
Apologies for writing off a whole generation of young people with a sweeping generalisation
The Division Of Joy wrote: No problem. I like the fluff, and enjoy playing missions etc where it's not just another game. I'm a big DA player, so if you could recommend me something along those lines it's be grand. For a tenner please. Make sure it hits all those or I won't waste my money on it. I don't spend money on stuff I don't like you see.
Here's a better idea: spend 15 minutes writing some cool mission ideas of your own. Congratulations, you just made a better product for free.
Younger generation - couldn't find their rears without their iphones!
Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm assuming you're a similar age to myself i.e we grew up in the 1980s/1990s with warhammer, and back then, you were encouraged by the likes of Rick Priestly to make up your own rules. This generation? No imiganation. If it's not got 'official' approval, they don't want to know, which is sad in a way.
Apologies for writing off a whole generation of young people with a sweeping generalisation
My counter to that would be that while playing purely with a couple of your mates creating your own rules and stuff is fun but when most of your games are pick up games at your FLGS you need a solid ruleset which both players can build a list for without having to discuss a lot of rules for first.
jonolikespie wrote: My counter to that would be that while playing purely with a couple of your mates creating your own rules and stuff is fun but when most of your games are pick up games at your FLGS you need a solid ruleset which both players can build a list for without having to discuss a lot of rules for first.
But the fluff missions in the "book" aren't really appropriate for that. They're for games where you want a story game that matches the individual armies instead of a random pickup game with standard missions. And for that making your own missions is vastly superior.
Ironwill13791 wrote: Well, I am bummed. Dark Angels are the only 6th edition codex that is STILL waiting for some sort of extra supplement and/or dataslate,
Remind me what updgrade or data slate Adepta Sororitas got?
I don't recognize most of the fluff in the e-book, and I had (up till 2011) owned every Black Library 40k book and comic published, and most of them now in 2013. Most certainly CSM books and anything to do with Cypher or Fallen Angels, because I had an unhealthy obsession with them in my earlier days. The fluff isn't recycled, from what I've seen.
Well, I know a lot of people were looking for the lore to be advanced to the 42nd millennium (Although they get to 999999.M41!). As far as I've read, that hasn't happened. It fleshed out a lot of who Cypher, his roles in various events, and the Fallen to an extent. It's 46 e-book pages of lore that reads like most Codices that give an overview and past-timeline of the Army you're playing, except more in-depth and with I daresay more character (and accuracy to past books), rather than just "OMG WE'RE SO GOOD" fluff.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Apologies for writing off a whole generation of young people with a sweeping generalisation
That's fine, it's actually pretty helpful - I'll know to skip past your condescending posts now! Cheers!
There was some meat in there - yeah, GW used to make a lot more of DIY than they do now, but we've seen it start to come back with the little "Forge the narrative" box-outs we like to rip the piss out of so much. It's pretty easy to say that WITHOUT being horrible to entire generations of your peers at a time, though.
Ironwill13791 wrote: Well, I am bummed. Dark Angels are the only 6th edition codex that is STILL waiting for some sort of extra supplement and/or dataslate,
Remind me what updgrade or data slate Adepta Sororitas got?
Cypher. Moving on.
Plus, your book (digital) was released, what, 1 or 2 months ago. Chill out, people still remember how ignored their army is also.
I'm more wondering about the rules for him. is there enough in there for him to be his own allied detatchment (plus fallen angels) for an Imperial Guard army? or if it would be worth allying to guard in the first place over any other ally? If its good enough to save me from buying a new codex to ally with, and especially if I can proxy dark vengeance models it might be worth my $20
TyCorny wrote: I'm more wondering about the rules for him. is there enough in there for him to be his own allied detatchment (plus fallen angels) for an Imperial Guard army? or if it would be worth allying to guard in the first place over any other ally? If its good enough to save me from buying a new codex to ally with, and especially if I can proxy dark vengeance models it might be worth my $20
You can get him and three chosen squads. If that's something you might like adding to your guard, then you can do it without taking up an ally slot and chosen are easy to get/make.
TyCorny wrote: I'm more wondering about the rules for him. is there enough in there for him to be his own allied detatchment (plus fallen angels) for an Imperial Guard army? or if it would be worth allying to guard in the first place over any other ally? If its good enough to save me from buying a new codex to ally with, and especially if I can proxy dark vengeance models it might be worth my $20
You can get him and three chosen squads. If that's something you might like adding to your guard, then you can do it without taking up an ally slot and chosen are easy to get/make.
without an ally slot? even though they're another army? what am I missing here? or is this apocalypse only?
Man, it is hard to decide on this item for me. If the fluff really does flesh out Cypher quite a bit...I could see paying the otherwise 'gouging' price.
If it is just more of the 'He is....INSERT YOUR IDEA HERE' with little more story to base it off of for any side....certainly not worth it.
Farseer Faenyin wrote: Man, it is hard to decide on this item for me. If the fluff really does flesh out Cypher quite a bit...I could see paying the otherwise 'gouging' price.
If it is just more of the 'He is....INSERT YOUR IDEA HERE' with little more story to base it off of for any side....certainly not worth it.
Ask yourself:
Do you want to read a bunch of fluff on Cypher?
Will you use the rules for Cypher?
Will you use the rules for his detachment?
Will you use the Altar of War missions?
If you say yes to at least three of those, I would buy it. If not, skip it.
Ironwill13791 wrote: Well, I am bummed. Dark Angels are the only 6th edition codex that is STILL waiting for some sort of extra supplement and/or dataslate,
Remind me what updgrade or data slate Adepta Sororitas got?
Cypher. Moving on.
Plus, your book (digital) was released, what, 1 or 2 months ago. Chill out, people still remember how ignored their army is also.
So you can't use Cypher?
Just correcting you assertion that Dark Angels were somehow the only ones ignored - we had to wait how long for a digital only codex..................and then don't get squat in any of the recent releases like Pandora - unlike oh yes the Dark Angels hwo half the book devoted to them........At least you have access to GW Lords of War- unlike which Codex - oh yes Sororitas
I have to say it does seem like a LOT of armies were given nothing in this advent calendar but Sisters and Orks seem pretty update impoverished at this point in time. I was hoping they would release something for Orks (I don't play them too much but I love their fluff and models.)
Interesting read I have to say. I personally knew very little about Cypher besides the fact that everyone always wanted to get rules for him. The rules are pretty good, and taking along Chosen is nice as well.
Good amount of story in there for him. Hard to believe it's just one guy.
Bronzefists42 wrote: I have to say it does seem like a LOT of armies were given nothing in this advent calendar but Sisters and Orks seem pretty update impoverished at this point in time. I was hoping they would release something for Orks (I don't play them too much but I love their fluff and models.)
azreal13 wrote: Still doesn't hold water, assuming the US$17 is correct.
There are two versions listed on iTunes that I can see.
The $19.99 "Interactive Edition" and the $16.99 "eBook Edition".
I bought the interactive version. Lots of fluff to read through tonight. The first mission is a bit one sided, but the second one looks fun. Happy I made this purchase. (and I HATED both dark angels HH books)
The Cypher story in the dataslate is a bit...odd. I have the feeling that multiple people wrote it. The keep repeating the same thing "The Imperium doesn't know what his mysterious purpose is..." Then 4-6 accounts of him working with loyal forces, chaos forces, and exposing would-be traitors. Skip to the next chapter, then "The Imperium doesn't know what his mysterious purpose is..." followed by 3-5 of the same types of examples. Repeat +4 or 5 times.
Good back ground fluff to work into a campaign to build around him, I guess.
The missions are good, though. If I was still with my group back in Houston, I'd buy Cypher and use these missions with either my Chaos Marines or Black Templars against my buds.
My rating of Dataslate Cypher: Solid addition to the game, weak storyline addition.
Whilst this thread is still up and about -- not really worth starting a new thread for this so...
Hello again everyone, and happy New Year!
We hope you had a good one.
We got a nice surprise to start off our 2014 with one of our books, Codex: Space Marines (Enhanced Edition), being selected by Apple as one of the best of 2013 in the ‘Made for iBooks’ category.
If you haven’t seen this book in action, it’s pretty awesome.
Not only does it have all the content from the print book, it’s also the first codex to include the interactive Force Requisition feature that allows you to organize your collection into an army ready for battle.
On top of that, it includes narrated audio sections, quick-links to special rules and an interactive miniatures gallery. There are even the rules for the Space Marines Apocalypse formations and their Lord of War, the Thunderhawk Gunship.
Ironwill13791 wrote: Well, I am bummed. Dark Angels are the only 6th edition codex that is STILL waiting for some sort of extra supplement and/or dataslate,
Remind me what updgrade or data slate Adepta Sororitas got?
Cypher. Moving on.
I totally need some explanation on how Codex: Inquisition and the Stormwhatever formation dataslate are not “extras” for Dark Angels, but Cypher is an “extra” for Adepta Sororitas.
Unlike Cypher, if you paint them green, the stormwhatever will even look like they are actually part of the Dark Angel army !!!
Sidstyler wrote: ...which is a lot worse than the Marine codex that BT are using now.
Assuming you're not playing C:SM as BT then yeah, but that kinda defeats the purpose.
Let's clarify : you are actually complaining that you have access to the biggest range of models from GW, most which in plastic, and are part of the biggest codex from GW, with the highest number of unit choices and option, all the while even with restricting your choice to only models that perfectly fits the fluff for Black Templar, you'll still get more choice than everything available in Codex: Adepta Sororitas ? Do you also want to complain that your infantry is not monobloc metal, that your codex is available in paper too instead of being digital exclusive, that your digital codex is the only one available with some list-building tool included, and that your codex is translated in your own language?
EYEofTERROR wrote: Can you take a unit of Chosen with Cypher as an ally with any army allowed?
No. The chosen option is Chaos only.
awww.....Now that I've had time to think it over, I want Chosen (The Fallen) with Cypher with any army. This is the news I wanted to hear, but now I want the Cypher release to have rules for a unique unit of Sternguard/Chosen THE FALLEN! At least I planned on using him with Chaos Space marines anyway.
Like that makes sense.
