On the run up to Christmas this December, Games Workshop Digital Editions will be releasing a new product every day for 25 days.
These will include new titles for Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000, ranging from original background, new scenarios and even brand new rules for your games.
The month opens with a bang with a brand new product for both systems with the return of the original Daemon Prince of Chaos - Be'lakor The Dark Master.
Download the latest new product in the 2013 Digital Advent Calendar every day from
blacklibrary.com/games-workshop-digital-editions
You'll also be able to download these new titles from the Apple iBookstore
Your second link has e books for Thousand Sons, Plague Marines, Noise Marines, Fabius Bile. I don't plan on any purchases, but I'm wondering if any rules are present in those downloads.
As it is for an army I collect, a model I own, and I've yet to try out an "interactive" product, I took the plunge.
Wow. Ok, he's expensive, but what a death machine!
For those who don't want to pay, he has a DP statline, but Eternal warrior, an improved ++ save, shrouded, lvl 3 telepathy psyker and a +1S armour/fleshbane weapon, as well as being an FMC.
That's not everything either, but won't spoil it all (and those are certainly the headlines)
Didn't see that coming! And the community seems to be reacting fairly positively to him, too. Sounds like he legitimately adds something to those armies,.
Anyway, interested to see what else comes of this advent thing. More of these "DLC" characters could be interesting.
Sarigar wrote: Your second link has e books for Thousand Sons, Plague Marines, Noise Marines, Fabius Bile. I don't plan on any purchases, but I'm wondering if any rules are present in those downloads.
I like the idea. I won't buy them all but I do like the idea. Would these have come out in a WD a decade ago? Yes. Would I have bought a $6-$7 White Dwarf just for the rules and to heck with any other content? Yes. So to me it's kinda a wash but I'm sure we'll have some people in complaining soon
I don't play chaos, but this has me really excited. Hopefully we are going to see a lot more if these single IC releases. Between this, the mini dex's and all the other digital releases we are looking at exciting times!
Cool rules, but I can't help but lament that we'll have to carry around rulebooks + codices + supplements + WD articles + random black library minirules just to play? I figured once the supplements became popular they'd start micro transacations. Maybe they'll give me new rules for Moriar the chosen for 3-4$.. Why even do a codex just do booklets for every single unit entry at 3$.
Correct me if I'm wrong, as I've only glanced at it, but he's not too great as a general for Fantasy. As he's not aligned to any god, he can't use inspiring prescience in a daemon army.
I ve just bought it. We'll I have to say that for its money it's good. The rules are great. Yes he is a normal DP. Yes he does not wear p.armor but who needs it after all. Apart from that I think he is gonna see play totally.
Steve steveson wrote: I don't play chaos, but this has me really excited. Hopefully we are going to see a lot more if these single IC releases. Between this, the mini dex's and all the other digital releases we are looking at exciting times!
To be honest I'd rather we only has new character releases in the army books with a reasonable update cycle, than have to buy an overpriced booklet for half a page of rules. It's cool for a first-wave or something but I'd hate it to be the only option.
Kirasu wrote: Cool rules, but I can't help but lament that we'll have to carry around rulebooks + codices + supplements + WD articles + random black library minirules just to play? I figured once the supplements became popular they'd start micro transacations. Maybe they'll give me new rules for Moriar the chosen for 3-4$.. Why even do a codex just do booklets for every single unit entry at 3$.
40k Ala-cart!
Or they should just start shipping cards with the model, a la Warmachine/X-Wing/Maulifaux. They all we need is the core rulebook and our pack of stat cards.
Kirasu wrote: Cool rules, but I can't help but lament that we'll have to carry around rulebooks + codices + supplements + WD articles + random black library minirules just to play[i][u]? I figured once the supplements became popular they'd start micro transacations. Maybe they'll give me new rules for Moriar the chosen for 3-4$.. Why even do a codex just do booklets for every single unit entry at 3$.
40k Ala-cart!
And this ladies and Gents is what killed Chapter Approved ten years ago, because too many people where complaining that they had to drag too much paper to play their things.
Like 5 pages of rules is soo heavy to take with you...
Darn what must DnD players say?, they must have the books+ campaigne+Playerbooks 1,2,3 etc and their printed stuff for their characters, and you don't here them complain about it, heavy things gives you muscles, remember that kids.
Now that its dematerialzed there is still people complaining?...
Or they should just start shipping cards with the model, a la Warmachine/X-Wing/Maulifaux. They all we need is the core rulebook and our pack of stat cards.
Meaning you'll have to re-buy all the models for the stat-card when the rules/edition is updated? Great. Go and give 'em ideas
Or they should just start shipping cards with the model, a la Warmachine/X-Wing/Maulifaux. They all we need is the core rulebook and our pack of stat cards.
Meaning you'll have to re-buy all the models for the stat-card when the rules/edition is updated? Great. Go and give 'em ideas
I never even thought of that; I'd just assumed there'd be a way to buy just the cards, either in a pack or in singles when a new edition came out.
Here is a link to a write up about him that goes into grwat detail for the 40k rules. I honestly think he will be seeing a lot of time on the tables. He is well worthy of his high price tag points wise.
I think that the best way is to simply make him using tha plastic kit. The old model apart from finecast is too tiny. And be'lakor is the first daemon prince. Not a good idea to be smaller than his other brothers..
Wow, Belakor is ridiculous. Huge (and unneeded) boost to Flying Circus lists. 350 is dirt cheap for what you get here. I'm guessing balance was a secondary concern while GW was churning out 25 new releases. Here's hoping they don't totally break their own game.
Not just good, "prolly just jumped to the top of the paint queue behind Fateweaver good!"
Interesting to see these DLC being embraced while Forge World is shunned.
I'm very much pro-FW, but I can see how something coming direct from the parent company, even digitally, would be viewed differently than from FW if I weren't.
It's a collaboration between BL & GWDigital. Fluff (40k version, at least, unsure if any of the fantasy stuff is new) by BL (I think) and rules by GWDigital
NoggintheNog wrote: If they are going to the trouble of making rules for him, perhaps they could also, you know, sell the model in places other than their own website.
I'd also question the 'end of finecast' rumour when they are charging £3 for rules to play something that in theory wont exist in 6 months time.
See, I think this gives credence to the rumours of the end of finecast - the best way to get rid of all your finecast stock is to make extra rules like this for the characters so that people go buy the models and exhaust the finecast stock. I'd say if you want an idea of what might be coming out over the next 24 days of advent, take a look at the finecast range and what's not been selling, and there you have your days of advent. Great way to shift stock before moving to all plastic, and boosting sales before Christmas.
Sounds like an excellent strategy to secure profitability for the company going forward by creating a small impulse purchase category of digital product that takes effectively zero effort to create or distribute and, when combined with a marketing campaign based around xmas, should prove to be rather lucrative.
I congratulate GW on their novel efforts to generate superior dividend yields.
Sounds like an excellent strategy to secure profitability for the company going forward by creating a small impulse purchase category of digital product that takes effectively zero effort to create or distribute and, when combined with a marketing campaign based around xmas, should prove to be rather lucrative.
I congratulate GW on their novel efforts to generate superior dividend yields.
Exactly. Used to be lots of stuff like this got put into White Dwarf, alongside all the other stuff that might be in a single issue, and that was in a physical media that had to be made in real-life without driving the cost to more than in was, rather than a computer file.
Some companies would give out something as small as Belakor's file for free. Especially when it isn't anything even approaching part of their products that provide the profit margin. Either make it free or have it be a free update for the books it pertains to, because then it still requires a monetary investment to obtain.
I'm not really a fan of the Micro-transaction route for rules though.
Yeah that hit me right after I bought it that I just spent $5 for some fluff and 1 stat line. Future is dark and full of terrors if this continues.
We used to do similar things to get a White Dwarf for the rules for one model. At least this one costs less than a white dwarf (unlike C: Inq)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tune from the Faeit 212 inbox wrote:
December 2nd will be.... wait for it....
Dataslate: Tau Firebase Support Cadre (mostly likely a Tau Formation for standard 40k)
December 3rd: Tactica XV104 Riptides
December 4th: Battlescroll: The Restless Dead
December 5th: Dataslate: Adeptus Astartes Storm Wing (appears to be a stormtalon variant)
Ravenous D wrote: True. Just seems different with the digital stuff for some reason, its exactly the same as paying for the old chapter approved stuff.
C: Inquistor really should have been a WD thing. $35 for essentially 3 pages is kind of silly.
There's no such thing as 'a WD thing' anymore. WD has been dead since the revamp (and dying for years before that).
I for one welcome my digital release overlord. It means that I can at least get my rules after they've been out for a couple months without having to sell a kidney. (I'm looking at you SOB WD Dex...)
In all seriousness, I think the big change is that people don't need to buy every book anymore like they might have done in 4th and 5th edition. This is much like in 3rd edition when owning every book was a little silly (I think we counted recently and there were 24 codexes and 36 armies in 3rd edition). AHa, found it. This list doesn't count individual white dwarf units of which there were quite a few in 3rd.
6th Edition - 21 Armies
Spoiler:
Inquisition Adepta Sororitas Space Marines Eldar Tau Empire Chaos Daemons Dark Angels Chaos Space Marines Clan Raukaan (Space Marines) Sentinels of Terra (Space Marines) Black Legion (Chaos Space Marines) Farsight Enclaves (Tau Empire) Iyanden (Eldar) Necrons Grey Knights Dark Eldar Blood Angels Tyranids Space Wolves Imperial Guard Orks
3rd edition - 36 Armies
Spoiler:
Eye of Terror (4 Army Lists, Lost and the Damned, Ulthwé Strike Force, Cadian Shock Troops, 13th Company) Armageddon (4 Army Lists, Black Templars, Salamanders, Speed Freeks, Armageddon Imperial Guard) Witch Hunters Imperial Guard (second version) Daemonhunters Chaos Space Marines (second version) Necrons *Dark Angels (updated second printing) Tau Tyranids *Craftworld Eldar *Space Wolves[5] *Catachans Imperial Guard (first version) Eldar Orks *Assassins Chaos Space Marines (first version) *Blood Angels Dark Eldar (original version) Space Marines Chapter Approved 2001 (2 Army Lists, Death Company, IG Armored) Chapter Approved 2003 (6 Army Lists. Feral Orks, Gaunt's Ghosts, Armageddon IG, City Fight IG, Kroot Mercs, Tyranid Seeding Swarms) Chapter Approved 2004 (1 New List. Feral Orks, IG Armored, Kroot Mercs, Tyranid Seeding Swarm, Cursed Foundings)
I love the new nasty for chaos. I would like to see rules like these BL digital ones all wrapped up in a nice $50 campaign supplement for 40k. There are already so many expansions for Apocalypse and new supplements with very little rules content being released all the time. it seems that there are enough digital rules floating about in the ether that the powers that be could actually compile an expansion worth my time/money. What is absolute FAIL about these releases is that they are so small that one could, with the permission of his friend, note down the tiny amount of special rules on a piece of scratch paper for later use. Just like this forum. pretty sure I have all the rules for be la'kor here...sticky note in my daemon codex. Merry x-mas to me. Remember that campaign codex that came out in like 2006....something about chaos..oh what was the name of it....something something darkside codex. They should release something like that again, but better with moar. I'd buy that.
Got my warmachine mag and it had rules for upcoming miniatures, got my white dwarf and it had page and pages of explantions of their new releases and a hall of fame miniature that was released not long ago, i think i pass on this digital content.
I downloaded Belakor, and although I'm not enthused about having to pay to use him, I am glad I do have the rules to use him. It's a great model with now great rules and I'm okay with having to "pay to play". I've had to cut back on all sorts of hobbies I was dabbling in, and just concentrate on a select few. It was necessary and now I appreciate the increased focus.
pretre wrote: In all seriousness, I think the big change is that people don't need to buy every book anymore like they might have done in 4th and 5th edition. This is much like in 3rd edition when owning every book was a little silly (I think we counted recently and there were 24 codexes and 36 armies in 3rd edition).
3rd Ed required more books. A Codex, a sub-Codex and multiple issues of WD. How is this better? How does this encourage needing to own less things?
Ravenous D wrote: Yeah that hit me right after I bought it that I just spent $5 for some fluff and 1 stat line. Future is dark and full of terrors if this continues.
Personally I don't like this one bit. As it's been pointed out this is essentially GW discovering DLC, which could end up being very bad if, like GW often does, they embrace all the worst aspects of it. It won't be long before GW gets the bright idea to start intentionally leaving content out of their overpriced $50 codex updates and introduces them as $5 downloads in the weeks following, and essentially doubles the price of a codex without having to put a scary $100 price sticker on the book. They'd love that gak.
still better then 8$ for Flickr pics, FW , Black library and others news available on the web, 10 pages of adresses for shops around the world, a faulty Batrep and nothing concret...
rather pay 4$ for something i'm interessted in even if there isn't much more, then 8$ for a lot of things that has no interest.
DLC is the future I think. Less cost to make overerall, easier to do and with less labor involved. If enough people support it, it'll cement it's status. Will it ever fully replace paper books? I don't know, but for now it looks like they will both be made and sold.
As for 4$ for one character rule? For this awesome model, he'll yeah I'm in total agreement. Glad they released this. I now have more reason to use the model then just as a daemon prince.
Nice thing about it too? If you don't like, no one is forcing you to buy anything.
Laughing Man wrote: Unless you want to use that beautiful Belakor model you had from last edition. Then you totally need to buy this.
you can use him as a genenric demon prince. I have two in my chaos army they where my lash princes.
I bought it and am happy they released the rules. I really like the ibook GW rules and codex's. the only problem will be if they upgrade so i can't use my ipad 1 any more.
Be'lakor fitst the bill for what USED to be in WD. But even in 3rd they were coming out with comp books for all the rules in WD. I'm glad to see this. Now I can pick and choose what I want to buy and can completely forget picking up a WD. Remember, this kind of thing was exactly what people were calling for when the SoB:WD dex left the shelves.
pretre wrote: In all seriousness, I think the big change is that people don't need to buy every book anymore like they might have done in 4th and 5th edition. This is much like in 3rd edition when owning every book was a little silly (I think we counted recently and there were 24 codexes and 36 armies in 3rd edition).
3rd Ed required more books. A Codex, a sub-Codex and multiple issues of WD. How is this better? How does this encourage needing to own less things?
It doesn't. I'm saying it is a return to 3rd when people didn't feel the need to own every book (something that people did in 4th and 5th). You still need a bunch of stuff to play your army but you just buy the stuff that you need rather than everything.
Tau combat doctrine places great emphasis on defeating enemy forces using superior firepower and technological advantage. At the heart of this method of warfare are their battlesuits; giant mechanical suits that are armed with the most powerful Tau weaponry. Foremost among these are the terrifying XV104 Riptide and XV88 Broadside battlesuits, capable of demolishing enemy battle lines and armour in a blaze of particle beams and howling sub-munitions.
The Tau Fireblade Support Cadre Dataslate presents the rules for fielding this advanced formation in your games of Warhammer 40,000, the cadre containing the impressive XV104 Riptide supported by six Broadside battlesuits, a terrifying prospect for any opponent to face!
COMPATIBILITY:
This eBook digital edition is compatible with most current generation mobile devices, tablets, computers and eReaders including Android, Kindle and iBooks devices. The exact look and layout of the eBook will depend on the eReader being used.
I bought the Tau Fireblade Support Cadre and I am happy about it.
The way these dataslates work is nice. Basically this one is a formation which can be used in normal games and doesn't take FOC slots, but doesn't prevent you from taking allies detachment. It has two nice rules.
18 Broadsides in less than 1750 point game. Not bad...
anyway, the formation runs less than 600 points without upgrades / drones. There seems not to be a limit in how many such formation one can take.
Rules also say that any army can take these formations, example is a primary SM detachment with allied IG and a Tau formation. Just beware of the alliance system. Add the inquisition and you have four armies on the table...
So GW finally gave me a way to field fethtons of broadsides and a riptide, and still be able to rock hammerheads and crisis suits then?
Not sure if I should be happy about that or if I should hate this idea even more. I also can't help but feel that those rules really should have been in the box to begin with...like $290 isn't enough, they have to have that extra $4 or they just can't pay out another dividend.
Well in any case I have a feeling this might be the month 40k dies, lol. Overpowered DLC coming out every day for a month, Escalation on top of that making overpowered super heavies a legal part of the game (assuming it isn't an expansion that can be ignored like all the others)...feth me.
Peregrine wrote: Awesome, because what Tau needed most was a way to take Riptides and missilesides without having to spend FOC slots on them...
Edit: WTF, and it gives them powerful extra bonuses on top of that? WHY GW WHY.
Yeah, Tank Hunters and Preferred Enemy: Space Marines (which get Hatred for them). I like Tank Hunters on railsides, almost makes them seem worth using again, but it makes the missilesides even better, too, so...
And no limit on formations? So basically Apocalypse in 40k finally happened and we didn't even have to wait for 7th edition?
Well Peregrine, look at it this way: maybe now people won't be so scared of Forge World anymore, lol...
If there's anyone left.
So what's next, I assume the other holiday bundles will get special rules. Anyone want to guess what bonuses the Space Marine flyer formation will get? Also, how many wraithknights can you field in an Eldar army now assuming their box also has no limits and doesn't count as an allied detachment? 4, 5?
In the beginning, GW made rules just for the purpose of playing your models/whole collection on the table.
Well, now they do it again. For a price.
Nothing really surprising, in fact. About game balance, well...nothing new again. It's not like they never talked about how much they care about competitive games, after all.
The bright side is that it shows you can create a lot of "fan made rules" for your casual games and just talking with your opponent about using them. It's free, after all, and the result won't be much different from what you can have here. You know, since it's obvious they didn't test those on the long term.
Normally I'm borderline White Knighting GW but this just seems waaaay too weird. Obviously OP DLC for 24 days in a row? Especially that Broadside/Riptide thing just seems crazy.
Hope the general consensus is that this is just "Christmas giggles" and should be treated like Apoc or Spearhead (i.e. just ignored ).
Let's be honest guys - the Tau do need a boost, and really the limits on how many Riptides they can field right now are just ludicrously silly. This frees up the army a bit more, and allows those who purchased multiple Riptides to actually use them at the same time.
(/sarcasm)
But seriously, this means a Tau player can field how many Riptides in a single army now? 12?
Guard are already getting baneblades. Escalation is listed as a supplement and not an expansion, so I'm imagining the whole "You can ignore it like Planetstrike, etc." argument isn't going to work anymore, unless you also ban codex supplements.
H.B.M.C. wrote: But seriously, this means a Tau player can field how many Riptides in a single army now? 12?
Well, you also have to take two three-man teams (not counting drones) of broadsides to make the formation. So I guess you could take 12 if points allowed, but you'd likely be playing at stupidly high levels anyway, like 5,000+.
But every army can take the Tau formation, though they follow the rules in the alliance chart. And since there's no limit for formations and they don't count as allied detachments it means literally every army in the game can run multiple riptides, lmao.
Noctem wrote: So this formation doesn't take up any FoC? Or is it 1 heavy support?
No, it exists outside the FOC apparently. All you do is pay the points for however you want them equipped and you get two special rules.
I don't be to be the "The Sky is falling guy" but yeah, this is not looking good.
+1. I'm not sure if the game is worth playing if it's all pay-to-win with new shiny balance rapeages dropping every month. And it's not like it was balanced or cheap before..
Looks like they're now making these rules just to be able to market more bundles on their website "You were totally missing one more Riptide and half a dozen battlesuits! One click bundle here!"
Thats 48 Twin-linked Str 7 shots with Tank Hunter and 48 Twin Linked Str 5 Tank Hunter shots that ignore cover each turn. That doesn't even factor in the Riptides. That also reroll 1's to wound space marines. Ouch!
That's nuts, I'll have to snag this and see the two rules. I'm not sure if I want to go buy 3 more Broadsides though...
I mean, what they are doing is trying to merge Apoc with regular 40k. You would basically play these new formations in massive point lists with escalation adding super heavies.
Troike wrote: Not gonna lie, I'm keeping an eye on this thing mostly out of hopes that something will be thrown their way.
Prepare for the return of Redemptor Kyrinov. He'll cost 260 points, have T3, 2 wounds and no Eternal Warrior! But he'll get his own special Warlord Traits table with such amazing things as "Kyrinov and his unit cause Fear".
If I'm reading the Formation rule right, your Broadsides won't give up extra Victory Points in Big Guns Never Tire because they no longer take up a Heavy Support choice. They can't score either but thats actually a pretty good trade off I think.
Prepare for the return of Redemptor Kyrinov. He'll cost 260 points, have T3, 2 wounds and no Eternal Warrior! But he'll get his own special Warlord Traits table with such amazing things as "Kyrinov and his unit cause Fear".
Yeah, and Tyranids will be able to take him as an Ally! That means the Nids would have something for december.
Now, we can charge 10$ for all the readers just because of those awesome rules we made. Come on, don't be cheap!
H.B.M.C. wrote: Prepare for the return of Redemptor Kyrinov. He'll cost 260 points, have T3, 2 wounds and no Eternal Warrior! But he'll get his own special Warlord Traits table with such amazing things as "Kyrinov and his unit cause Fear".
Doubtful. With the current thing of "no model= no rules", he probably won't be making his return for a while.
People wonder what orcs get......looted tau cadre . Seriously go buy the $5.00 toy robots from Walmart, and use cardboard from GW boxes of friends to make them more grim dark. If anyone complains then show them WIP pics of all the GW product you used to build the army
lord_blackfang wrote: Between this and Escalation, I'm beginning to see what the "GW = pay to win" crowd is talking about.
I can see this definitely being a pay to win sort of thing, but if all that matters is having fun and it's the same with your buddies, then play with whatever rule sets you want. I mean, an Escalation match with formations might be really fun and if you have a huge army already, why not? If you have smaller armies, you definitely wouldn't play Escalation.
Noctem wrote: That's nuts, I'll have to snag this and see the two rules. I'm not sure if I want to go buy 3 more Broadsides though...
I mean, what they are doing is trying to merge Apoc with regular 40k. You would basically play these new formations in massive point lists with escalation adding super heavies.
The formation gets Tank Hunters and "Bane of Angels" which is essentially Preferred Enemy: Space Marines (and SM get Hatred: Tau Firebase Support Cadre, with "Space Marines" being defined as the obvious: SM, BA, DA, GK, SW).
I hope they release a compendium of these dataslates.. I got no idea how to run this as a TO because no one player is going to have every rule now, and I'm not spending 75$ for 25 new units..Eventually we'll run into a problem where rules aren't even available yet are still legal?
This is beyond borderline annoying. Oh well, we praised them for giving us a 30$ inquisition book with 5 units.. so they've rewarded us with 3-4$ for 1 page digital rules that cost nothing to produce.
Well, based on the BL offerings from last year they'll probably be around for a while. It's not like they need to spend time printing a fresh run at any point so it'd be silly (even for GW) to do them as a limited run.
We may even see a collection put together of all the 'new' units after the end of the calendar.
I'm surprised GW doesn't do something like "revised" codex printings or something, seems like it would be up there alley. Make slight balance tweaks, correct typos, add in FAQ/Errata and new formations or other rules and then make people pay $50 to basically buy their codex again...and again...and again.
Well, they do kinda do that, but every 5+ years. I mean more like every year or two, change practically nothing and sell people a new book. Or do they have just enough foresight to realize that people wouldn't buy that?
OR WOULD THEY? Limited Edition Revised Printing version 3! Limited to 500 copies worldwide, buy now for only $400!
During the chapterhouse lawsuit they claimed they weren't a gaming company, but a company that just produces miniatures.. Seems like they sure are producing a lot of rules for a pure miniature company!
I think there must be some sort of rules misunderstanding somewhere... there is no way that they are letting people take a primary detachment, plus an allied detachment, plus a Lord of War, plus an Inquisition formation, plus a Tau formation, plus a fortification, plus a XYZ formation... just... no.
Maybe they can release dataslates on gold cards with an aquila etched on the back.. 40k legal limited time only, 15$ each.
Want to use your Squats? Well we have a special edition dataslate for use with your Imperial Guard army. Squat Bikes! 5$ for the rules for the bike, and 7$ rules for the rider! (Need both to play)
Kirasu wrote: Maybe they can release dataslates on gold cards with an aquila etched on the back.. 40k legal limited time only, 15$ each.
Want to use your Squats? Well we have a special edition dataslate for use with your Imperial Guard army. Squat Bikes! 5$ for the rules for the bike, and 7$ rules for the rider! (Need both to play)
JUST TAKE MY MONEY! AND MY FIRSTBORN! JUST GIMME THE STUFFS!
Kirasu wrote: Maybe they can release dataslates on gold cards with an aquila etched on the back.. 40k legal limited time only, 15$ each.
Want to use your Squats? Well we have a special edition dataslate for use with your Imperial Guard army. Squat Bikes! 5$ for the rules for the bike, and 7$ rules for the rider! (Need both to play)
JUST TAKE MY MONEY! AND MY FIRSTBORN! JUST GIMME THE STUFFS!
Sorry, got quite excited by the Squats reference.
I'll send you my paypal email and then I'll PM you some rules.
Sounds like an excellent strategy to secure profitability for the company going forward by creating a small impulse purchase category of digital product that takes effectively zero effort to create or distribute and, when combined with a marketing campaign based around xmas, should prove to be rather lucrative.
I congratulate GW on their novel efforts to generate superior dividend yields.
pretre wrote:There's no such thing as 'a WD thing' anymore. WD has been dead since the revamp (and dying for years before that).
Codex Be'Lakor must be the rare opportunity for me to post a negative opinion without being personally attacked by you two
Kirasu wrote:Why even do a codex just do booklets for every single unit entry at 3$.
Seems you figured out GW's plans for future Codex and armybook releases And when the digital Codex will be finally released for 100$, some people will say that it is 50$ cheaper than buying all unit rules as single files
Slayer le boucher wrote:Darn what must DnD players say?, they must have the books+ campaigne+Playerbooks 1,2,3 etc and their printed stuff for their characters, and you don't here them complain about it, heavy things gives you muscles, remember that kids.
They will say that D&D is a cooperative game unlike 40k, so you don't "win" D&D just because you paid for an extra file.
Swissivy wrote:The way these dataslates work is nice. Basically this one is a formation which can be used in normal games and doesn't take FOC slots, but doesn't prevent you from taking allies detachment.
So you can take big Apocalypse formations outside FOC in regular games now?
So you can take big Apocalypse formations outside FOC in regular games now?
Yeah its a free detachment, and the rules say you can take any number of these detachments. So Tau can take the fireblade cadre, an inquisitorial detachment and ally with Tau, Eldar or Space marines.
and this is only day 2 of 25, there is still 23 days left of this stupidity.
the level of butthurt in this thread warms my heart on these cold december nights. Dakka, never change
i like to think of a games developer in nottingham, who pestered and harassed his boss with this advent calender idea - a snipped of rules every day for a month, giving the fans some new fluffy rules to play around with.
He googles 'gw digital advent calender' to see how people feel about it, if people are happy with his work. Then he reads this thread, takes off his belt and hangs himself.
So they're giving rules to their bundle sets in an effort to force their sale... well, I wonder what the Eldar one will get? Ghost warriors, the'yll probably all have stealth and shrouded.. Tank Hunter, Ignores cover, invuln saves.
Games Workshop: Digital Editions
Hey guys,
We’ve got an early Christmas present for you fans of Middle-Earth out there.
The full rules for all the models from The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey rules manual, available as a completely free download.
This means you just need a copy of Goblin Town (or any earlier Lord of the Rings rulebook) to use them in your games.
Enjoy!
This is something I just found! Legitimately something cool and free from GW... but hey, if you stick to WFB and 40K you can't be expected to get the cool stuff XD
Matt1785 wrote: So they're giving rules to their bundle sets in an effort to force their sale... well, I wonder what the Eldar one will get? Ghost warriors, the'yll probably all have stealth and shrouded.. Tank Hunter, Ignores cover, invuln saves.
If this turns out to be the case, the double Stormtalon/Stormraven box will make Wolves really solid again.
Matt1785 wrote: So they're giving rules to their bundle sets in an effort to force their sale... well, I wonder what the Eldar one will get? Ghost warriors, the'yll probably all have stealth and shrouded.. Tank Hunter, Ignores cover, invuln saves.
Nah.. they can save time by just going to payment tiers.
Spend 5$, pick a unit.. It gains X special rule. You must bring your receipt with you to each game!
Spend 50$, pick an army, that army can join any other army without using an ally slot.. and you get divination and servo skulls on one character for free. (Only usable if you own the limited edition codex of the army)
Last year, they made the whole Advent calendar of 25 short stories and audio dramas available as a bundle. I'd imagine this year will see the same thing. However, just to be safe, pick up the ones you want as they come out. Or at least that's what the bigwigs up in Nottingham will say.
xruslanx wrote: the level of butthurt in this thread warms my heart on these cold december nights. Dakka, never change
If you like being fleeced by things that a couple of years ago would have been free PDF's on the website, then more power to you. As they say, a "A fool and his money are soon parted."
lol my response to this... with escalation being legit superheavys on field without permission...
me: lets play a 3000 pt game
guy: "i get to bring my baneblade, and tau cadre, beside my wraithknight seerspam army!"
me: ok, you can even go first.
guy: *deploys* muahahahahah!!
me: *puts down phantom titan +vect +whatever.
so i seize init....fire my phantom....annnnnnnnnd your dead. thanks for playing. >
Tacohunter wrote: Cypher looks to be hinted at as returning from the white dwarf daily video.
I think Cypher's a given, really. They're clearly pumping out rules for models and bundles that didn't have them before (or had out of date rules) and Cypher is on the top of the list for that, I imagine.
Tacohunter wrote: Cypher looks to be hinted at as returning from the white dwarf daily video.
I think Cypher's a given, really. They're clearly pumping out rules for models and bundles that didn't have them before (or had out of date rules) and Cypher is on the top of the list for that, I imagine.
Well, Cypher has just now added himself to my Christmas list.
xruslanx wrote: the level of butthurt in this thread warms my heart on these cold december nights. Dakka, never change
If you like being fleeced by things that a couple of years ago would have been free PDF's on the website, then more power to you. As they say, a "A fool and his money are soon parted."
Who on earth would pay for bottled water? I can get some from the lake for free.
Who on earth would pay for apples? I can get them from my tree for free.
etc.
Someone spending money on something that was once free doesn't make that person a fool.
xruslanx wrote: the level of butthurt in this thread warms my heart on these cold december nights. Dakka, never change
If you like being fleeced by things that a couple of years ago would have been free PDF's on the website, then more power to you. As they say, a "A fool and his money are soon parted."
Who on earth would pay for bottled water? I can get some from the lake for free.
Who on earth would pay for apples? I can get them from my tree for free.
etc.
Someone spending money on something that was once free doesn't make that person a fool.
Your old water was not contaminated with toxic waste and apples were never free when you didn't have an apple tree. Some stuff is suposed to be free.
Sarouan wrote: And if we're lucky, maybe some sisters of battle!
Oh wait...They had a digital codex not so long ago. No need to give new shiny things for the girls, then.
Oh, no, don't worry, we'll get something : we'll get… ignored ! Too bad we have tons of it already.
But maybe they'll do like for Tau, make a big, FOC-free detachment of the most powerful stuff in the codex. It will contain 10 priests. With a special rule to make them auto-pass War Hymns. And use all three every turn.
xruslanx wrote: i like to think of a games developer in nottingham, who pestered and harassed his boss with this advent calender idea - a snipped of rules every day for a month, giving the fans some new fluffy rules to play around with.
You might like to think it, but that would be your absurd fantasy. The real conversation:
Developer: "Hey, I have an idea, we can have a holiday celebration where we sell lots of new rules."
Boss: "I love selling rules. Just don't fall behind on the codex schedule."
Developer: "Don't worry, I already wrote all of the rules on my lunch break."
Boss: "Keep up the good work!"
The idea that GW's management would actually oppose a plan to sell minimum-effort rules and get easy money is, well, about as reasonable as anything else you've ever posted.
He googles 'gw digital advent calender' to see how people feel about it, if people are happy with his work. Then he reads this thread, takes off his belt and hangs himself.
Paying several dollars for this seems odd... I bought it and, aside from a bit of cool new fluff, the only thing you get are the rules Tank Hunter and Bane of Angels for a detachment of 1 Riptide and 2 full units of Broadsides... You don't need to buy this to remember those 2 rules.
Still, I'd love to use this, since my army's fluff is all about being specialized SM killers. I cannot pass up the chance to get PE against them! Though I may simply play as though the units DO take up FOC slots, which would mean excluding 2 of my 3 Heavy Support choices for the Broadsides, which is fine. Broadsides can fill the same roles (I just don't like how expensive the models are.)
I think then it would feel more legitimate, (the only difference being Tank Hunters and Bane of Angels for those specific units.)
NamelessBard wrote: Who on earth would pay for bottled water? I can get some from the lake for free.
Who on earth would pay for apples? I can get them from my tree for free.etc.
False analogies are false.
How often are you near a lake? Is the lake clean? Do you have water purification tablets or some sort of filter? Who owns an apple tree?
Well, the good news: We may finally see Cypher, Doomrider, cheap rules for the Ork Bommers that I can put on an ebook reader because I don't have an iPad, and other things that GW should have put in the original books/given out for free.
Additionally, I doubt we're going to see much abuse of all of these attachments, due to the points cost. By the time you're considering putting in an apocalypse detachment, you maybe be at 2k + points. If you want to bring a Baneblade to a 1.5k game, then you probably don't have enough of anything else to have a balanced army.
H.B.M.C. wrote: How often are you near a lake? Is the lake clean? Do you have water purification tablets or some sort of filter? Who owns an apple tree?
I'm more interested in hearing what makes those extra rules snippets inherently free, and therefore an example of GW fleecing people.
His Master's Voice wrote: I'm more interested in hearing what makes those extra rules snippets inherently free, and therefore an example of GW fleecing people.
Remember when GW used to put up Apocalypse Datasheets? Campaign articles from WD? All of spear head? The Blood Angel WD Codex? Remember how these things were free?
DarknessEternal wrote: Wouldn't have bought the White Dwarf these rules would have been in?
Where you aware a copy of White Dwarf is twice the cost of this download?
Were you aware that GW used to put these sorts of things on their website as free PDFs?
Or is it bad because the players who made a few specific cheesy power lists made them even worse?
Will they be worse than any of the current cheese?
So, this means at 1850 some guy with three riptides will get a fourth....what did he take out of that list?
Yeah, sure he might blow you off the table (didn't he already? Wasn't he already recognized as a douchebag?) - but in list he has what....what did he take out?
In the past where we had razorspam, dragiowing, cron air, etc and now we have screamstars, fateweaver rerolls, serpent spam and riptide hordes..isn't this just more riptides?
Don't get me wrong, I think there are plenty of opportunities for better balancing rules in the game - but what will this really make different?
So.. just to get this straight... you get those benefits (tank hunter, preferred enemy) at no additional point cost? And the "downside" is that you're forced to take the go-to unit of this edition (Riptide) and field two of the go-to unit that every seasoned tau player has from last edition (broadsides)? Wow...
Were you aware that GW used to put these sorts of things on their website as free PDFs?
Name three things GW put on the website for use in 40k like this.
If you also can't name 20 things that have been in White Dwarf for each, you're either being obstinate or ignorant.
You mean like the pile of Apoc datasheets they had up, which included the asset cards along with 30 or so datasheets (at least that's the number of them I have in my folder, there might have been more I didn't snag before they disappeared). There was also the old Blood Angels White Dwarf dex.
In the recent past White Dwarf would have those datasheets and stuff in them shortly before they appeared on the website, or things like Spearhead and even then it was a pale comparison to the really old White Dwarf.
Dr. What wrote: Additionally, I doubt we're going to see much abuse of all of these attachments, due to the points cost. By the time you're considering putting in an apocalypse detachment, you maybe be at 2k + points.
This isn't really true. Tau have good cheap options that they'd love to spam, but can't really because of FOC limits. For example, throwaway melta suits are a very good deal points-wise, but taking up a vital Riptide slot makes them a bad idea. Now you can fix that "problem" and take a Riptide in a special slot and open up an elites slot for that melta suit. And now that you've got two free heavy slots for the Broadsides you were already taking you can spend your normal heavy slots on some cheap sniper drones (excellent markerlights) or more Sky Rays.
And that's just Tau. If IG get something like that for fast attack or heavy support it's a game-changing release because IG armies are almost always constrained more by the FOC than by points.
C: WH, C: DH, Spearhead, Apoc Formations (all 30+ of them), Eldar Nightspinner rules, off the top of my head.
And for Fantasy there was Winter Magic.
Now, I agree with the sentiment, but weren't WH and DH put up after their respective replacements in C:SoB and C:GK? I could be mistaken
Also, there's an argument to be made that for most of those, you NEEDED those rules to use the model. Not so with these rules so far, Be'lakor is basically a Daemon Prince. Not a good defence, but still...
The XV104 Riptide is the pinnacle of the Earth caste's battlesuit development. It stands twice as tall as the XV8 Crisis suit, but its movements are more like those of its smaller cousins than the mechanical stiffness displayed by Imperial walkers with their crude servo-motors. A fearsome weapon of war, it can stand alonge against almost anything the enemies of the Tau Empire have in their arsenal.
Tactica: XV104 Riptides explores the use and tactics of the Riptide in games of Warhammer 40,000. Discover the tips and tricks for getting the most out of this impressive war machine, and how to bring ruin to the foes of the Tau Empire, as well as its weaknesses and how to defeat it.
COMPATIBILITY:
This eBook digital edition is compatible with most current generation mobile devices, tablets, computers and eReaders including Android, Kindle and iBooks devices. The exact look and layout of the eBook will depend on the eReader being used.
meh, can't see this being a big seller really.
Unless it has some truly revolutionary ideas and tips to destroy the 6 Broadside suits that will accompany every Riptide now of course.
Shas'o_Longshot wrote: Also, there's an argument to be made that for most of those, you NEEDED those rules to use the model.
Codex: Witch Hunter was needed to play Sisters of Battle models, and was put as a free pdf on the website. WDex: Sisters of Battle was needed to play Sisters of Battle models, and was never put as a free pdf on the website, even while it wasn't possible to buy it anymore.
So, yeah, I think there is a change in mentality here.
So im fine with the rules releases, as i can get hours of entertainment from them.
on the other hand
I purchased the ahriman short story for 2 bucks: It was 5 pages of short fluff and 8 pages of legal (do not duplicate/copyright crap and an about the author paragraph.)
2 bucks is nothing, but its worth more than a 2 min read. Said another way, When your legalese is longer than your content, there is an issue.
Unless it has some truly revolutionary ideas and tips to destroy the 6 Broadside suits that will accompany every Riptide now of course.
Maybe by including a rule like "if you play against a Riptide, roll a dice at the beginning of each turn and on a 3+ it can't be used this turn 'cause you managed to exploit its weak points thanks to your awesome tactical knowledge"? Then I'm sure they would sell it a lot.
Just kidding, of course. Unless GW proves me I was right.
Remember when GW used to put up Apocalypse Datasheets? Campaign articles from WD? All of spear head? The Blood Angel WD Codex? Remember how these things were free?
They were, after a time. You had to initially pay for that stuff by buying the WD, which wasn't a perfect solution either.
That doesn't actually answer my question though. GW is a business. Unless you can come up with an argument on how free content of this variety increases sales in other areas, I don't see why they should not charge for it.
GW "Riptide Tactica" = You should "buy more riptides", and buy these Rules so you can "Buy More Riptides", and they work well with pathfinders, so "BUY MORE RIPTIDES", and case you missed the Point "BUY EVEN MORE RIPTIDES"
Other than the obvious selling of models by strengthening the rules for said models... exactly why some companies provide rules for free.
I still have the old chapter approved kroot mercenary army list. It had fluff, background info from the author and design notes, all provided for free on the GW website.
Yeah, like Kolbalt266, giving rules that allows almost every army to use riptides and broadsides without taking either FOC slots or allies slot, with free special rule bonus, is really encouraging people to buy riptide. Especially those that didn't before because they already had allies, or had their FOC slots already full.
Remember when GW used to put up Apocalypse Datasheets? Campaign articles from WD? All of spear head? The Blood Angel WD Codex? Remember how these things were free?
They were, after a time. You had to initially pay for that stuff by buying the WD, which wasn't a perfect solution either.
That doesn't actually answer my question though. GW is a business. Unless you can come up with an argument on how free content of this variety increases sales in other areas, I don't see why they should not charge for it.
There are plenty of other businesses out there in the model world that are sticking to the idea that you buy 1 rulebook per edition and nothing else rules wise, if the stats aren't in that book or in the box with the models then they are up on the internet being given away fro free. GW is the only company out there I can think of that tries to make you pay twice, three times or possibly even four times to get all the rules for your army. GW is also the only company that I can think of off the top of my head that is visibly shrinking in the industry at the moment, the others are all growing.
Rules should not be a major seller for a model company, the models should be. The fact that GW try to squeeze people so much for rules is just stupid and flies in the face of the whole 'we are a model company' line they love so much.
His Master's Voice wrote: That doesn't actually answer my question though. GW is a business. Unless you can come up with an argument on how free content of this variety increases sales in other areas, I don't see why they should not charge for it.
It acts as free promotion, promotes goodwill amongst your customers, and it's generally the kind've thing marketing departments love (I know this first hand).
Of course, GW doesn't have a marketing department. Just a sales department.
We have no actual data on how semi-free rules affected GW bottom line, so while I understand the argument for promotion and good will, neither of us knows which approach is/was more profitable for GW in it's current state.
The XV104 Riptide is the pinnacle of the Earth caste's battlesuit development. It stands twice as tall as the XV8 Crisis suit, but its movements are more like those of its smaller cousins than the mechanical stiffness displayed by Imperial walkers with their crude servo-motors. A fearsome weapon of war, it can stand alonge against almost anything the enemies of the Tau Empire have in their arsenal.
Tactica: XV104 Riptides explores the use and tactics of the Riptide in games of Warhammer 40,000. Discover the tips and tricks for getting the most out of this impressive war machine, and how to bring ruin to the foes of the Tau Empire, as well as its weaknesses and how to defeat it.
COMPATIBILITY:
This eBook digital edition is compatible with most current generation mobile devices, tablets, computers and eReaders including Android, Kindle and iBooks devices. The exact look and layout of the eBook will depend on the eReader being used.
meh, can't see this being a big seller really.
Unless it has some truly revolutionary ideas and tips to destroy the 6 Broadside suits that will accompany every Riptide now of course.
So now they want you to pay for marketing that encourages you to buy the new hot model?
Remember when GW used to put up Apocalypse Datasheets? Campaign articles from WD? All of spear head? The Blood Angel WD Codex? Remember how these things were free?
They were, after a time. You had to initially pay for that stuff by buying the WD, which wasn't a perfect solution either.
That doesn't actually answer my question though. GW is a business. Unless you can come up with an argument on how free content of this variety increases sales in other areas, I don't see why they should not charge for it.
If McDonalds started charging a premium to sit down and eat your food in the restaurant, would you think that is reasonable?
If a taxi driver charged you 2 dollars extra per mile to turn on the AC, would you think that is reasonable?
If your gym started charging you an extra fee to use the showers, would you think that is reasonable?
If Wal-mart charged you a fee to play the pro-mo PS4, would you think that is reasonable?
If the grocery store started charging for samples, would you think that is reasonable?
If airlines started charging you a fee to check your bags...yea, nobody is happy about that are they?
weeble1000 wrote: If McDonalds started charging a premium to sit down and eat your food in the restaurant, would you think that is reasonable?
Well, they already do that. You're just not being charged with a separate bill.
The point I was making is that just because something was free, doesn't mean it should remain free forever if selling it is more profitable. The opposite is just as true. The market changed, delivery methods changed and most of all, GW changed. Changed for the worse, as many would argue, but changed nonetheless. What worked in the past may not be a suitable solution today.
Hmm I'm still a little confused about where it says that an army that isn't Tau can use this Tau formation, I bought the Fireblade Support Cadre for the 5 bucks, and I thought I read somewhere in it that hinted at you needing the primary detachment to be the same codex as the formation detachment. I mean you can't freely use Apoc formations of other codexes in an army right? Or am I way off...
Some airlines already do, and it depends on how much you pay for things and accept, id rather them charge me for bits i need and new extras if i want them. At the end of the day nothing is free in life but they aren't asking for a lot
The Bel'Akor supplement is pretty good. Read it last night. Could have used a little more story, but the guy is my kind of evil. His stats certainly don't suck, either. But he's a major point sink.
Remember when GW used to put up Apocalypse Datasheets? Campaign articles from WD? All of spear head? The Blood Angel WD Codex? Remember how these things were free?
They were, after a time. You had to initially pay for that stuff by buying the WD, which wasn't a perfect solution either.
That doesn't actually answer my question though. GW is a business. Unless you can come up with an argument on how free content of this variety increases sales in other areas, I don't see why they should not charge for it.
If McDonalds started charging a premium to sit down and eat your food in the restaurant, would you think that is reasonable?
If a taxi driver charged you 2 dollars extra per mile to turn on the AC, would you think that is reasonable?
If your gym started charging you an extra fee to use the showers, would you think that is reasonable?
If Wal-mart charged you a fee to play the pro-mo PS4, would you think that is reasonable?
If the grocery store started charging for samples, would you think that is reasonable?
If airlines started charging you a fee to check your bags...yea, nobody is happy about that are they?
Why expend such a lot of energy getting angry/upset about something that GW have done, essentially just for fun?
They won't make a fortune out of this; surprise, surprise, some of the rules will be cool, some of the digital products will be meh.
Charging for the tactica is like charging for a magazine article. That's what practically every magazine publisher does. There are new agencies set up specifically to market old features and articles to subscribers and libraries. It's IP - people are expected to pay for it.
Yes, GW used to give away some of this stuff for free. In fact, they still do - but as we've seen, the thread on the free Tactical Marines painting guide drew around three pages of comments, whereas threads complaining about something that costs a couple of bucks grow to eight or nine pages. Strange that.
Remember when GW used to put up Apocalypse Datasheets? Campaign articles from WD? All of spear head? The Blood Angel WD Codex? Remember how these things were free?
They were, after a time. You had to initially pay for that stuff by buying the WD, which wasn't a perfect solution either.
That doesn't actually answer my question though. GW is a business. Unless you can come up with an argument on how free content of this variety increases sales in other areas, I don't see why they should not charge for it.
If McDonalds started charging a premium to sit down and eat your food in the restaurant, would you think that is reasonable?
If a taxi driver charged you 2 dollars extra per mile to turn on the AC, would you think that is reasonable?
If your gym started charging you an extra fee to use the showers, would you think that is reasonable?
If Wal-mart charged you a fee to play the pro-mo PS4, would you think that is reasonable?
If the grocery store started charging for samples, would you think that is reasonable?
If airlines started charging you a fee to check your bags...yea, nobody is happy about that are they?
Why expend such a lot of energy getting angry/upset about something that GW have done, essentially just for fun?
They won't make a fortune out of this; surprise, surprise, some of the rules will be cool, some of the digital products will be meh.
Charging for the tactica is like charging for a magazine article. That's what practically every magazine publisher does. There are new agencies set up specifically to market old features and articles to subscribers and libraries. It's IP - people are expected to pay for it.
Yes, GW used to give away some of this stuff for free. In fact, they still do - but as we've seen, the thread on the free Tactical Marines painting guide drew around three pages of comments, whereas threads complaining about something that costs a couple of bucks grow to eight or nine pages. Strange that.
Who said I was at all angry or upset? I just think it's silly. I stopped buying GW products years ago, so this is no sweat off of my back other than the LOLs. If GW wants to flush its business down the proverbial toilet, more power to them.
Think about this for a minute, will you. I don't think anyone is saying GW shouldn't be able to charge for this next to worthless stuff, just that the market is competitive and GW charging 4 dollars for this advent calendar glorified DLC could very well put off plenty of its customers, who don't want to be charged for this kind of material. GW is begging for revenue with this. It is an act of apparent desperation, not the act of a happy company rolling in the Benjamins. If my Gym told me I had to pay 4 dollars to use the showers I'd laugh and go find another gym.
What US airline is doing really well at the moment...oh yea, Southwest, the airline that doesn't charge for checked luggage. GW wants to sell models, and rules sell models. The harder GW makes it to acquire and use the rules, the fewer model sales GW will make because less people will be playing the game. We have been seeing it happening for going on 5 years now. GW is looking for more and more and more ways to squeeze blood out of a stone, and is stripping the walls bare selling the same material to its existing customers over and over again. There was nothing new in that Sisters E-Dex, for example. It's just regurgitated material that already exists.
GW is trying to find any way it can to sell what it already has on hand, regardless of the reaction it gets from customers. Why would a company do that?
weeble1000 wrote: It is an act of apparent desperation, not the act of a happy company rolling in the Benjamins. If my Gym told me I had to pay 4 dollars to use the showers I'd laugh and go find another gym.
GW is trying to find any way it can to sell what it already has on hand, regardless of the reaction it gets from customers. Why would a company do that?
That might well be true. But it isn't in this instance. They are charging small amounts, for something of small value. There's no evidence it's an attempt to make a fortune.
Your analogy also fails, because GW are not requiring you to spend the money for the service, as in charging you for the showers. They are selling an extra accessory, one which is not necessary to participate. It is like offering you a back rub at your gym, extra perfumed soap or a logo'd swimming cap.
In my interaction with GW people, some of them are (a) company drones who only want to sell you stuff, while some of them are (b) enthusiasts who like cool stuff. I know some people like to suggest the staff comprises purely group a, but there's plenty of evidence that there remains a group b, too.
weeble1000 wrote: It is an act of apparent desperation, not the act of a happy company rolling in the Benjamins. If my Gym told me I had to pay 4 dollars to use the showers I'd laugh and go find another gym.
GW is trying to find any way it can to sell what it already has on hand, regardless of the reaction it gets from customers. Why would a company do that?
That might well be true. But it isn't in this instance. They are charging small amounts, for something of small value. There's no evidence it's an attempt to make a fortune.
Your analogy also fails, because GW are not requiring you to spend the money for the service, as in charging you for the showers. They are selling an extra accessory, one which is not necessary to participate. It is like offering you a back rub at your gym, extra perfumed soap or a logo'd swimming cap.
In my interaction with GW people, some of them are (a) company drones who only want to sell you stuff, while some of them are (b) enthusiasts who like cool stuff. I know some people like to suggest the staff comprises purely group a, but there's plenty of evidence that there remains a group b, too.
It does not fail. I don't have to shower at the gym, but I expect to be able to shower at a gym as part of my membership fee, and at my particular gym I do get to use the showers as part of my membership. If my gym suddenly decided to charge for something I was otherwise getting included in my membership fee, well then I would be unhappy about that and go to a competitor who chooses to not charge for the showers. If you like, we can call it soap in the showers, or locker use, or anything else you want.
No analogy is perfect, and you can't take them very far. The point is that GW used to provide this type of material for free, because it was financially beneficial for the company to do so. Note that GW provided this content for free when the company was growing every single year. Now, the company is not growing and GW has changed its behavior and started charging for this material. GW has changed not only an established pattern of behavior, but is flouting conventions of the market. No matter how you slice it, doing something like that will come at the cost of valuable goodwill. The question is whether the loss of goodwill will be offset by the increase in revenue. GW may very well not care at all about answering that question, and may be solely interested in the short term gains created by selling something that it had not sold before.
It's really pretty simple, and you don't need to overcomplicate it.
Remember when GW used to put up Apocalypse Datasheets? Campaign articles from WD? All of spear head? The Blood Angel WD Codex? Remember how these things were free?
They were, after a time. You had to initially pay for that stuff by buying the WD, which wasn't a perfect solution either.
That doesn't actually answer my question though. GW is a business. Unless you can come up with an argument on how free content of this variety increases sales in other areas, I don't see why they should not charge for it.
Oh the irony of such a statement coming from someone named HMV...
weeble1000 wrote: No analogy is perfect, and you can't take them very far. The point is that GW used to provide this type of material for free, because it was financially beneficial for the company to do so. Note that GW provided this content for free when the company was growing every single year. Now, the company is not growing and GW has changed its behavior and started charging for this material. GW has changed not only an established pattern of behavior, but is flouting conventions of the market. No matter how you slice it, doing something like that will come at the cost of valuable goodwill. The question is whether the loss of goodwill will be offset by the increase in revenue. GW may very well not care at all about answering that question, and may be solely interested in the short term gains created by selling something that it had not sold before.
It's really pretty simple, and you don't need to overcomplicate it.
I think the part I bolded for emphasis is key. That said.. it's not a universal loss of goodwill amongst the playerbase either (not that you're claiming that) as some people see this stuff as a fan service and not a transition from free to paid DLC. Years ago they used to provide demon lord stats for free like with Angron... now they charge for Belakor.
Some people need that Riptide tactica. They are certainly not as point-and-click as people say, as evident during my games vs. less-experienced players using Tau and Eldar over the weekend.
Here's hoping for some cult terminator rules or something. I've got 5 terminators on stand by and I haven't put combi-plas/melta on them for just such a hope.
Okay so if they made rules for the Tau Empire Firebase Support Cadre one could assume that they will make them for the Eldar Ghost Warriors. If so, then we should get a nice positive out of this. I know a lot of Tau players have ditched using Wraithlords because of the Wraithknight. With a Dataslate: Eldar Ghost Warriors I would bet we could get a Wraithknight, 2 Wraithlords, and of course 15 wraithguards outside of the FOC.
Grimtuff wrote: Oh the irony of such a statement coming from someone named HMV...
That is comedy right there.
My nick refers to a record label. I have very fond memories of my grandfather's vinyl collection, which happened to include a number of their discs. My avatar is a logo they used.
Painful.. but I suspect the majority of players will not take advantage of that.
For example, there are a few competitive players who only play Eldar instead of including Tau. They are aware of the options, but they make a choice to keep things simple.
Brometheus wrote: Some people need that Riptide tactica. They are certainly not as point-and-click as people say, as evident during my games vs. less-experienced players using Tau and Eldar over the weekend.
Here's hoping for some cult terminator rules or something. I've got 5 terminators on stand by and I haven't put combi-plas/melta on them for just such a hope.
I'm not sure if you are serious or not.......
Even if you need a Riptide Tactica you are one step away from google...
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Riptide+Tactica
Blah blah blah, crap crap crap...show me the Cypher!! Then I'll buy in to this stuff!
I must say the 'Riptide Tactica' is comical, should have at least made THAT item free.
I can see charging for Bel'Akor although that kind of defeats the purpose of not being a rules company if you charge $3.50 for a single unit's rules....even if accompanied by 20min of work on fluff...right?
Brometheus wrote: Some people need that Riptide tactica. They are certainly not as point-and-click as people say, as evident during my games vs. less-experienced players using Tau and Eldar over the weekend.
Here's hoping for some cult terminator rules or something. I've got 5 terminators on stand by and I haven't put combi-plas/melta on them for just such a hope.
Unfortunately it's pretty obvious that most of these mini-rule additions are designed to push model sales for units that have models but no real rules.. or for splash release boxsets. Chaos Terminators do not fall under this, and there are no special cult terminator models really (non-FW). I don't think GW is giving people rules strictly to fill holes in the codex fluff.. its designed to sell *specific* models.
I say, look through their old models and then see which ones might have excess inventory That's the real reason.
In my opinion, and everyone may disagree, I LOVE THESE DIGITAL RELEASES.
I will gladly pay 4 dollars for a set of rules and some fluff for a 40k special character like Be'lakor. In general, the idea of getting to expand your armies, to keep your codex from getting stale over time, is EXACTLY what I want.
Also, microtransactions are nothing new. video games have done it for years. And guess what... it WORKS, which is why other industries are following suit. It works for the manufacture because they get a nice constant revenue stream, and it works for consumers because we can pick and choose what we want to pay for. Remember, these rules are optional. You can literally ignore them if you don't want to play with them.
If you play against a new unit/formation, just have your opponent show you the rules before hand so you aren't surprised.
Everything I said applies to the dataslates and formations, NOT to escalation, which I do believe is a bit of a different animal. I believe Escalation should only be played if both parties have superheavies (thats how I would play it).
I am super excited to get more and more options for my army. This december thing is probaby just a test run. If it goes well, I wouldn't be surprised if they used dataslates in the future to introduce brand new models to a codex.
I understand the points of view of all those who are against all the content being in so many different sources, and those who feel "Tau doesn't need more riptides". But all this has me excited for 40k, not afraid.
Again, just my opinion, and I respect all those with the opposing point of view.
In my opinion, and everyone may disagree, I LOVE THESE DIGITAL RELEASES.
I
Also, microtransactions are nothing new. video games have done it for years. And guess what... it WORKS....
I had a very interesting conversation this weekend with a GW nut, who gave us all his old 2nd edition Eldar.
He was looking at the current model range, and was enthusing about the range available now, far more models, far more options, to an extent that was absolutely unthinkable when he built up his collection. He was happy to see that his old game is still popular and the company is doing well.
I didn't explain that the fact GW has hired more designers and is producing more models per year, and producing more new rules, is in fact a sign of "desperation".
AhrimansBolter wrote: Remember, these rules are optional. You can literally ignore them if you don't want to play with them.
If you play against a new unit/formation, just have your opponent show you the rules before hand so you aren't surprised.
The three sentances above in a row from your post are mutually exclusive. You can't just ignore them if your opponent uses them in a typical pick up game scenario as they are valid GW rules with no disclaimers (unlike FW books). In the social contract that is a pick up game versus a stranger, the unwritten rule is that anything that is optional is out unless approved and anything that isn't listed as optional is in. You can always draw a line in the sand and refuse to play that particular opponent using that particular unit but at that point the "jerk" onus goes to you (as opposed to staying with them if they're trying to "force" optional rules on you). I don't think anyone has an issue with digital releases in general as GW has used that route for over a decade but you'd think/hope/wonder if they learned their lesson during the old Chapter Approved days when things weren't optional (like this stuff) and then switched to optional midway because they didn't have any semblance of balance or fairness. Of course, if they were optional, I'd suspect less people would pay money for them which is why they're not.
I'm quite happy to use Be'lakor and pay for cheese , for a start he looks dark. Better then the steroid injected plastic play mobile type DP's GW normally sell.
Grimtuff wrote: Oh the irony of such a statement coming from someone named HMV...
That is comedy right there.
My nick refers to a record label. I have very fond memories of my grandfather's vinyl collection, which happened to include a number of their discs. My avatar is a logo they used.
Was the petty snipe really necessary?
There was no real snipe I can see, just a missed reference in your part. HMV, as well as being a record label, were/are also a chain of music/videogame/movie retailers, who, for the sake of brevity, have been "struggling financially" in recent years.
Would be obvious to a UK resident, perhaps this one just didn't cross the border?
AhrimansBolter wrote: Remember, these rules are optional. You can literally ignore them if you don't want to play with them.
If you play against a new unit/formation, just have your opponent show you the rules before hand so you aren't surprised.
The three sentances above in a row from your post are mutually exclusive. You can't just ignore them if your opponent uses them in a typical pick up game scenario as they are valid GW rules with no disclaimers (unlike FW books). In the social contract that is a pick up game versus a stranger, the unwritten rule is that anything that is optional is out unless approved and anything that isn't listed as optional is in. You can always draw a line in the sand and refuse to play that particular opponent using that particular unit but at that point the "jerk" onus goes to you (as opposed to staying with them if they're trying to "force" optional rules on you). I don't think anyone has an issue with digital releases in general as GW has used that route for over a decade but you'd think/hope/wonder if they learned their lesson during the old Chapter Approved days when things weren't optional (like this stuff) and then switched to optional midway because they didn't have any semblance of balance or fairness. Of course, if they were optional, I'd suspect less people would pay money for them which is why they're not.
Ha, when I say "ignore them", I mean don't use them in your army. I don't mean "never play against anyone who uses them".
With the releases so far (Be'lakor and "Ultra Tau"), I don't see anything that I wouldn't play against. Like I said I draw the like with escalation, where superheavies to ME are a whole different category of power.
I group the Be'lakor and Tau Firebase releases with things like supplements or the Inquisition release... just a few more options for your army to keep it interesting. Yes it adds power but not to the extent that a baneblade would.
The problem I DO have is that all the rules are separated. GW needs to make a way to simply add these releases to your digital codex. So rather than download, say, a Be'lakor rules file by itself, it should also add him to the HQ section of your digital codex. I would still pay the 3.99, but at least make it free to additionally update your digital codex. I hope they eventually go this route.
azreal13 wrote: There was no real snipe I can see, just a missed reference in your part. HMV, as well as being a record label, were/are also a chain of music/videogame/movie retailers, who, for the sake of brevity, have been "struggling financially" in recent years.
Would be obvious to a UK resident, perhaps this one just didn't cross the border?
yeah,
Dual Service is the way forward.
They need to link up digital and hard copies, so it's less of a choice.
It shouldn't be one or the other...
And I don't know anyone who is going to buy the same codex twice?
for example.
Amazon.co.uk I bought a CD from them and got a email saying I could listen to it right now.
Amazon have a cloud service. I didn't have to wait for the CD.
I didn't even have to wait for a download.
I could instantly listen to it and the CD arrives in the post a few days later.
Bonus. The first time I loaded up the amazon cloud player and logged in.
Surprise ... you have 106 albums ready to listen to.
Awesome! they basically went through my purchase history and added those albums to the service too.
I can listen to the last 5 years worth of purchases online anywhere (ie... at work. lovely.)
Now I'm planning on making all future purchases on amazon so i get them added to the cloud and I'm already planning on upgrading the account and moving my mp3s to their cloud...
So while they gave me something for nothing it will pay off as I will stick with them.
++
Now if GW tried this out?
Imagine digital copies of codexs included with paper back copies, if bought from the GW webstore...
Imagine if digital codexs cost £10...
Imagine if GW gave us a 5 page download for free... (we still need to buy the mini!)
Imagine how happy we would be?
or have alook at what happens when they decide to squeeze the joy out the Hobby during the festive season...
The more I think about escalation the more I like it. I have 4 super heavy tanks and I have only been able to play with one of them once. But now I could grab my Stormdoomhellshadowbaneswordbladehammerlord and let my roommate use the one of my other Stormdoomhellshadowbaneswordbladehammerlords. I also have a friend that wants to face a list with one or two super heavies in it.
As long as it isn't done in a tournament than I don't really see what the problem is. Just don't play against that person. Or see if your up against the challenge of taking out a super heavy with a non-apoc list.
Grimtuff wrote: Oh the irony of such a statement coming from someone named HMV...
That is comedy right there.
My nick refers to a record label. I have very fond memories of my grandfather's vinyl collection, which happened to include a number of their discs. My avatar is a logo they used.
Was the petty snipe really necessary?
There was no real snipe I can see, just a missed reference in your part. HMV, as well as being a record label, were/are also a chain of music/videogame/movie retailers, who, for the sake of brevity, have been "struggling financially" in recent years.
Would be obvious to a UK resident, perhaps this one just didn't cross the border?
This.
If someone made a similar comment and was called "Blockbuster" for example, I'd make the same quip.
I think its interesting they are charging for this, from a copyright law standpoint.
That said, the reason I find it interesting is you are supposed to share the rules for units/etc you are using with your opponent, often people will make a print out of their things for an opponent, so I can see a lot of people acquiring the digital rules for free through people they are playing using said rules and having to share.
Given the rules are quite short, its not hard to take a screen cap, print, and or just write them down.
That again of course now that I am thinking of it will also be a playing problem because if someone writes it down or shows up with a print/screen cap that is edited they could cheat....ahh gaming... :(
Anyone can cheat at anything is the thing.. Might as well not even leave your house! Even life itself cheats you ..just gotta have some faith that most won't cheat for inane reasons.
agnosto wrote: Other than the obvious selling of models by strengthening the rules for said models... exactly why some companies provide rules for free.
I still have the old chapter approved kroot mercenary army list. It had fluff, background info from the author and design notes, all provided for free on the GW website.
This is very true. There are a variety of smaller companies that provide free access to all of their rules online, include regular updates and errata, and even have a forum where actual developers provide official rulings on questions. They do this specifically to boost the sales of their miniatures. These services are viewed as an acceptable loss-leader to drive business to their miniature lines.
The problem i see with these releases are in the likes of
"Oh you and your friend bought the same mini's from us for the same cost, but what if you want to boost your army for just 4,99 ?"
This is exactly what is happening with the tau cadre release, they are basically power ups for your money and doesn't work in most computer games although i cant comment on minis. Starcraft doesn't let you start with one more worker if you but the collectors edition or you get an exclusive hero on dota which is not available to free users anytime.
I am glad that we are actually getting more product from gw, but i do think it is not far that days will come when 2 exact armies will matchup and one will crush another just because he bought 3 formation rules online.
I am glad that we are actually getting more product from gw, but i do think it is not far that days will come when 2 exact armies will matchup and one will crush another just because he bought 3 formation rules online.
I suspect in GW's corporate mindset the above is a win as one player bought three formation rules online direct from GW.
I don't think we'll ever get to know what is actually in the Riptide Tactica, because I don't think anyone here will actually buy it to give us a review.
If there is someone with a surplus of spending cash, please do share. I'm curious how GW's tactica stacks up compared to online fan tacticas.
Of course, I'm also wondering whether they have included a new 15-point upgrade to Riptides that is only available in the official tactica
I am glad that we are actually getting more product from gw, but i do think it is not far that days will come when 2 exact armies will matchup and one will crush another just because he bought 3 formation rules online.
I suspect in GW's corporate mindset the above is a win as one player bought three formation rules online direct from GW.
And in many cases the second player will go and do so to avoid the same thing happening again. "Gotta catch(buy) them all!"
"Oh you and your friend bought the same mini's from us for the same cost, but what if you want to boost your army for just 4,99 ?"
Once again, this is cheaper and more widely available than White Dwarf, which is where this sort of thing used to go.
This is the best solution.
Only if you choose an arbitrarily more recent point in time to begin history. There was a point in time when quality WD content used to make it on to the website as free PDFs in a timely manner. There was even some stuff like updates of older special characters that never even went in WD that appeared on the website (during the 2-3 special characters max period of army book writing around 6th Ed WHF).
"Oh you and your friend bought the same mini's from us for the same cost, but what if you want to boost your army for just 4,99 ?"
Once again, this is cheaper and more widely available than White Dwarf, which is where this sort of thing used to go.
This is the best solution.
I think i might have come a bit wrong.
I don't have a problem with dlc 's. My problem is the no common sense approach. There is no drawback or cost in-game for the tau formation, not like you pay 50 points+models points for the formation. I disliked the way they did this in apoc (just buy 10 wraithknights and you can kick a*s and chew bubble gum, oh and we dont have bubble gum) and i dislike the way they are implementing it into regular 40k .
I don't have a problem with dlc 's. My problem is the no common sense approach. There is no drawback or cost in-game for the tau formation, not like you pay 50 points+models points for the formation. I disliked the way they did this in apoc (just buy 10 wraithknights and you can kick a*s and chew bubble gum, oh and we dont have bubble gum) and i dislike the way they are implementing it into regular 40k .
I agree with you to a certain point. If someone was already using two units of Broadsides and a Riptide in their Tau army, then, yes, they simply take this formation and get bonus rules for free. But, as someone had mentioned earlier, those units wouldn't count as Elites or Heavy Support for certain scenario objectives. Is it a fair balance? Probably not. But, it does change them somewhat rather than just being a 'free upgrade' without any other differences.
Only if you choose an arbitrarily more recent point in time to begin history. There was a point in time when quality WD content used to make it on to the website as free PDFs in a timely manner.
No, that's the anomaly. It was White Dwarf or White Dwarf compilation book for 14 years before that and for about 2 years since. There was one tiny window in their history of using the internet when things were new and freely available for the core 40k game.
I don't have a problem with dlc 's. My problem is the no common sense approach. There is no drawback or cost in-game for the tau formation, not like you pay 50 points+models points for the formation. I disliked the way they did this in apoc (just buy 10 wraithknights and you can kick a*s and chew bubble gum, oh and we dont have bubble gum) and i dislike the way they are implementing it into regular 40k .
Oh, then we agree. You should pay points to get something.
In Apocalypse, it's fine. There's nothing even remotely reasonable about any part of an Apocalypse "game". Apocalypse should be called an "experience" more than a "game" and is built entirely around ridiculous stuff. This formation would vanish in one shot by any number of things in Apocalypse, so what's 50 points or so.
But for 40k, it should have really had a cost increase or something to slap on some extra rules.
I don't have a problem with dlc 's. My problem is the no common sense approach. There is no drawback or cost in-game for the tau formation, not like you pay 50 points+models points for the formation. I disliked the way they did this in apoc (just buy 10 wraithknights and you can kick a*s and chew bubble gum, oh and we dont have bubble gum) and i dislike the way they are implementing it into regular 40k .
I agree with you to a certain point. If someone was already using two units of Broadsides and a Riptide in their Tau army, then, yes, they simply take this formation and get bonus rules for free. But, as someone had mentioned earlier, those units wouldn't count as Elites or Heavy Support for certain scenario objectives. Is it a fair balance? Probably not. But, it does change them somewhat rather than just being a 'free upgrade' without any other differences.
Well it might matter for heavy supports but elites dont do anything for scoring purposes. Also we should keep in mind the unit gives space marines hatred which is the most useful usr in 6th edition right after fear.
Well it might matter for heavy supports but elites dont do anything for scoring purposes. Also we should keep in mind the unit gives space marines hatred which is the most useful usr in 6th edition right after fear.
Ah, that one slipped my mind, for obvious reasons.
If GW had any business sense, they would scrap White Dwarf altogether and make it a free web series. Costs a ton less to produce, and it gets people onto the website where they can buy models. In-store publications should be free "how to paint" catalogs that don't go bad sitting on shelves and become outdated. "How to paint tactical marines" doesn't change year to year, and doesn't have to be constantly updated. GW USED to do this. They used to include a "how to paint citadel miniatures book" in the major game boxed sets, as well as have them available in stores.
They don't have any business sense. I don't know a single person who buys WD anymore.
I'm not particularly experienced with business, so I don't know what "right" looks like exactly, but I do know that GW is fething doing it wrong.
Don't think, tournament organisers are happy with GW's current attitude:
"Who downloads latest, get's the most Riptides/superheavies/Apocalypse-formations/Primarchs and wins the game!"
Kroothawk wrote: Don't think, tournament organisers are happy with GW's current attitude:
GW explicitly* doesn't like tournaments and you already knew that. So what's your point?
*that means they've actually said so.
That is a recent attitude from GW that flies in the face of what a lot of fans want purely because GW dislike the idea of actually competing with other companies.
As a Tau player, I'd say this additional battle formation makes up for the fact others can now use a super-heavy. Unless I buy Forgeworld and run the risk of wasting my money on a unusable model, we haven't got a GWSH toy like most others. I'd expect the other factions that can't reasonably field one will also get a formation add-on.
Now you too can summon reanimated corpses to do your evil bidding. The Restless Dead contains background and rules that will allow you to wield a fearsome Undead formation in Warhammer.
In the Warhammer world, the dead do not rest easy. Pools of dark magic are siphoned off to fuel fell necromantic enchantments – dread words whispered into the Winds of Magic. The Restless Dead rise at your command – a solid core of Undead warriors that make a great addition to a larger force or an ideal stand alone contingent for summoning forth corpses to aid you in battle. With a clanking of gear and a rattling of bones, the skeletal regiments await your orders, puppets to your dark will.
Kroothawk wrote:Don't think, tournament organisers are happy with GW's current attitude:
"Who downloads latest, get's the most Riptides/superheavies/Apocalypse-formations/Primarchs and wins the game!"
DarknessEternal wrote:GW explicitly* doesn't like tournaments and you already knew that. So what's your point?
*that means they've actually said so.
My point is, that the GW managers don't understand, what a game is.
It needs a minimum of game balance and fun.
The second time you got steamrolled by a flood of superheavies, you won't play that opponent again or quit altogether. Buying the products is NOT the hobby. Competitive play OTOH is one essential part of the hobby and the community. Managers don't understand, that a simple pay to win approach is killing the fun, the community and the urge to buy GW stuff. 40k is not a game anymore (unless you make severe house rules), it is just a bunch of overly expensive kits.
The Division Of Joy wrote: As a Tau player, I'd say this additional battle formation makes up for the fact others can now use a super-heavy. Unless I buy Forgeworld and run the risk of wasting my money on a unusable model, we haven't got a GWSH toy like most others. I'd expect the other factions that can't reasonably field one will also get a formation add-on.
Im looking into getting a e-reader for some of these digital releases, anyone know if the Kindle Paperwhite would work with the ebooks downloaded from GW, like the main rulebook and such? Can it display artwork etc? (not very familair with ereaders and dont want to pay for an ipad)
The second time you got steamrolled by a flood of superheavies, you won't play that opponent again or quit altogether. Buying the products is NOT the hobby.
Kroot, you're obviously hanging out with the wrong people.
In a tournament, the rules of whether superheavies etc are eligible will be clear. In a regular club, people will, y'know, talk. In our regular venue, we ask for a fluffy game, we say whether we want a no-holds barred game. And if we lose, it doesn't ruin our life. Is your self-esteem so fragile that losing a pickup game will make you quit a hobby?
At our regular club, people are already urging us to bring the Stompa. Why? Because it will be fun. That is, y'know, the point. When there's a tournament, the rules will be clear, and are being debated already. Most reasonable, decent people will do that - if they won't where you are, maybe you should find another group, rather than asking GW to police your personal life.
aliusexalio wrote: Im looking into getting a e-reader for some of these digital releases, anyone know if the Kindle Paperwhite would work with the ebooks downloaded from GW, like the main rulebook and such? Can it display artwork etc? (not very familair with ereaders and dont want to pay for an ipad)
I have seen to many people go cheap on their tablets and then complain about how useless it is and rather have the books in front of them. I highly recommend Googles Nexus 7. Its $200 and out performs everything. Its main draw back is you can't add an SD Card, so if you fill all 16 gigs you would need to utilize Dropbox or Google Drive.
Just a recommendation of course but I always cringe when I see people going for the cheapest tablets thinking its going to work the way you want them to.
aliusexalio wrote: Im looking into getting a e-reader for some of these digital releases, anyone know if the Kindle Paperwhite would work with the ebooks downloaded from GW, like the main rulebook and such? Can it display artwork etc? (not very familair with ereaders and dont want to pay for an ipad)
I've not tried any of the recent (advent calendar) offerings but the images should be displayed without issues. The covers from the BL books display without any problems on my kindle.
Sarouan wrote: Funny that when it's about 40k, people go on rampage about game balance but when it's about Battle, people just don't care.
This Restless Dead is, in fact, the same thing than the Tau formation; take a bunch of skeletons in your army without caring about your army book.
Plenty of creativity, though. I'm quite impressed with what they're doing at the moment. We'll see what will come next year...
Any time anyone changes anything, people can say the sky is falling because of the effect they believe that change could have on balance. It's lazy criticism for when you've got nothing better to hand but still want to bash GW.
aliusexalio wrote: Im looking into getting a e-reader for some of these digital releases, anyone know if the Kindle Paperwhite would work with the ebooks downloaded from GW, like the main rulebook and such? Can it display artwork etc? (not very familair with ereaders and dont want to pay for an ipad)
It will display it all, the mobi filetype you get from Black Library is Kindle proprietary, it will however just be black and white obviously.They are very easy on the eye to read though, I have to say.
Not sure if you can find one, but I think the bargain of the last few months has been the Nook HD+ tablet, £120 , 9 inch screen, full HD resolution (1920x1080) and apart from Nooks own front end, an open android system including google playstore etc. Works great for the books and all in colour, although its out of production now so finding one may be difficult.
aliusexalio wrote: Im looking into getting a e-reader for some of these digital releases, anyone know if the Kindle Paperwhite would work with the ebooks downloaded from GW, like the main rulebook and such? Can it display artwork etc? (not very familair with ereaders and dont want to pay for an ipad)
I have seen to many people go cheap on their tablets and then complain about how useless it is and rather have the books in front of them. I highly recommend Googles Nexus 7. Its $200 and out performs everything. Its main draw back is you can't add an SD Card, so if you fill all 16 gigs you would need to utilize Dropbox or Google Drive.
Just a recommendation of course but I always cringe when I see people going for the cheapest tablets thinking its going to work the way you want them to.
Thanks, Ill keep that in mind, I did some more researching and the e-readers don't have color, only black and white. Now for rules its not that big of a deal, but still it would be nice to have a color screen.
aliusexalio wrote: Im looking into getting a e-reader for some of these digital releases, anyone know if the Kindle Paperwhite would work with the ebooks downloaded from GW, like the main rulebook and such? Can it display artwork etc? (not very familair with ereaders and dont want to pay for an ipad)
It will display it all, the mobi filetype you get from Black Library is Kindle proprietary, it will however just be black and white obviously.They are very easy on the eye to read though, I have to say.
Not sure if you can find one, but I think the bargain of the last few months has been the Nook HD+ tablet, £120 , 9 inch screen, full HD resolution (1920x1080) and apart from Nooks own front end, an open android system including google playstore etc. Works great for the books and all in colour, although its out of production now so finding one may be difficult.
Any time anyone changes anything, people can say the sky is falling because of the effect they believe that change could have on balance. It's lazy criticism for when you've got nothing better to hand but still want to bash GW.
You know I think you're right, every time GW changes something people always complain that it's unbalanced and ruing the game, I wonder why that is... Maybe it's because 40k is the least balanced game on the market and GW are constantly telling us that they don't want to balance it?
Citing balance issues is not a lazy criticism. Easy, but not lazy. The same way trying to imply that anyone that has a problem with anything GW does just want's to 'bash' GW isn't lazy. Unoriginal sure, but not lazy.
Any time anyone changes anything, people can say the sky is falling because of the effect they believe that change could have on balance. It's lazy criticism for when you've got nothing better to hand but still want to bash GW.
You know I think you're right, every time GW changes something people always complain that it's unbalanced and ruing the game, I wonder why that is...
Maybe it's because 40k is the least balanced game on the market and GW are constantly telling us that they don't want to balance it?
Citing balance issues is not a lazy criticism. Easy, but not lazy. The same way trying to imply that anyone that has a problem with anything GW does just want's to 'bash' GW isn't lazy. Unoriginal sure, but not lazy.
So on the one hand 40k is endemically unbalanced, but on the other hand if they change things it'll ruin the balance? Which is it?
And nice try there but I never actually said "anyone that has a problem with anything GW does just want's to 'bash' GW". I don't believe that and I didn't say it, so please don't put words in my mouth.
Kroothawk wrote: The second time you got steamrolled by a flood of superheavies, you won't play that opponent again or quit altogether.
Where is this flood of super-heavies coming from?
He's probably talking about WH40k: Escalation, which has rules about super heavies being used in regular 40k. Whether this will be allowed in tournaments remains to be seen.
I'd rather see FW in tournaments than super heavies, but that's just me.
Spoiler:
Warhammer 40,000: Escalation
Please note, this supplement is currently only available in English language.
Across the battlefields of the 41st Millenium, desperate commanders loose their greatest weapons of war. Classified “Lords of War” by the Imperium of Man, these vast and deadly assets bring a new level of destruction to the galaxy’s eternal war.
Warhammer 40,000: Escalation contains full rules for adding super-heavy vehicles and gargantuan creatures to every Warhammer 40,000 army. This means you can now use these massive models in games of Warhammer 40,000 as well as games of Apocalypse.
This 96-page, full colour, hardback supplement contains:
· A background section introducing Lords of War units and their terrifying impact on the battlefield.
· All the rules needed to play with super-heavy vehicles (including Flyers and Walkers) and Gargantuan Creatures, as well as rules for their potent wargear.
· An amended force organization chart that allows players to choose Lords of War units as part of their standard Warhammer 40,000 armies.
· Datasheets for every plastic super-heavy Citadel miniature, plus a selection of super-heavy vehicles and gargantuan creatures from Forge World.
· A showcase of expertly painted Lords of War Citadel miniatures.
· New Altar of War and Gauntlet Challenge missions that can be played instead of the Eternal War missions in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.
You will need a copy of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook and relevant codexes in order to use the contents of this book.
Availability: This product is available for Pre-order. Release Date Information.
Part Code: 60040199040
The second time you got steamrolled by a flood of superheavies, you won't play that opponent again or quit altogether. Buying the products is NOT the hobby.
Kroot, you're obviously hanging out with the wrong people.
In a tournament, the rules of whether superheavies etc are eligible will be clear. In a regular club, people will, y'know, talk. In our regular venue, we ask for a fluffy game, we say whether we want a no-holds barred game. And if we lose, it doesn't ruin our life. Is your self-esteem so fragile that losing a pickup game will make you quit a hobby?
At our regular club, people are already urging us to bring the Stompa. Why? Because it will be fun. That is, y'know, the point. When there's a tournament, the rules will be clear, and are being debated already. Most reasonable, decent people will do that - if they won't where you are, maybe you should find another group, rather than asking GW to police your personal life.
If you need a gentlemans agreement to enjoy the game, then there's something wrong with the game, no?
The problem with broken units is that one of the players doesn't need to be actively being "that guy" for the other guy to get steamrollered and have no fun. If you've just invested in an army you like, and then find out that unless your opponent actively sandbags their army, their victory is a foregone conclusion, you're going to be upset and lose interest quickly.
Any time anyone changes anything, people can say the sky is falling because of the effect they believe that change could have on balance. It's lazy criticism for when you've got nothing better to hand but still want to bash GW.
You know I think you're right, every time GW changes something people always complain that it's unbalanced and ruing the game, I wonder why that is...
Maybe it's because 40k is the least balanced game on the market and GW are constantly telling us that they don't want to balance it?
Citing balance issues is not a lazy criticism. Easy, but not lazy. The same way trying to imply that anyone that has a problem with anything GW does just want's to 'bash' GW isn't lazy. Unoriginal sure, but not lazy.
So on the one hand 40k is endemically unbalanced, but on the other hand if they change things it'll ruin the balance? Which is it?
And nice try there but I never actually said "anyone that has a problem with anything GW does just want's to 'bash' GW". I don't believe that and I didn't say it, so please don't put words in my mouth.
The point you were making is that people are complaining for no reason, the point I am trying to make is that imbalance is a very, very good reason to complain when it comes to GW.
Sarouan wrote: Funny that when it's about 40k, people go on rampage about game balance but when it's about Battle, people just don't care.
Well, I don't play battle anymore, but here are my thought on why :
- Much more people play 40k than Battle around here, so they are not affected by Battle release and don't react to them overmuch
- The Battle Battlescroll seems much more balanced : you need to take some base units (here, Skeleton Warrior) and some hero (here, Wight Knight) to be able to take other, more exotic units (Black Knights and Grave Guard, though I have no idea if they are base, special or rare units). It actually feels like some kind of alliance with a mini undead army. The firecadre is all HS choices. And not any kind of HS choice either, some of the best/hardest to deal with.
Did anyone else notice how every story so far has been about space marine ? Let's take bet at when the first non-space marine fiction will pop up. I bet on Friday the 13th, of course .
Sarouan wrote: Funny that when it's about 40k, people go on rampage about game balance but when it's about Battle, people just don't care.
This Restless Dead is, in fact, the same thing than the Tau formation; take a bunch of skeletons in your army without caring about your army book.
There are some important differences. For one, the formation comes with a Core unit (Troops equivalent, only not as useful). So in a percentage based system, you're not "breaking" the system, the way you get one extra Elite and two Heavy with the Tau one. Secondly, the units aren't that great, especially if you can't boost them with VC magic.
So people don't care, because it's a sensible implementation.
Sarouan wrote: Funny that when it's about 40k, people go on rampage about game balance but when it's about Battle, people just don't care.
I know right? It's almost as if they were two different games with completely separate issues? Weird!!!
kronk wrote: He's probably talking about WH40k: Escalation, which has rules about super heavies being used in regular 40k. Whether this will be allowed in tournaments remains to be seen.
I'd rather see FW in tournaments than super heavies, but that's just me.
All indication is that this will allow a Lord of War slot - singular - meaning people can take one super-heavy in the same way they take one fortification.
aliusexalio wrote: Im looking into getting a e-reader for some of these digital releases, anyone know if the Kindle Paperwhite would work with the ebooks downloaded from GW, like the main rulebook and such? Can it display artwork etc? (not very familair with ereaders and dont want to pay for an ipad)
H.B.M.C. wrote: All indication is that this will allow a Lord of War slot - singular - meaning people can take one super-heavy in the same way they take one fortification.
Hardly the 'wave' Kroothawk seems worried about.
If calling it Lord of War indicates they're using the FW system from the HH books then it's something like* 1 with 7+ HPs or 1-3 with <7 HPs each, spending no more than 25% of your points.
*I only have the first HH book where it's 1 with 3+ SPs or 1-3 with <3 SPs each, I'm not sure where they put the boundary in the second book when they switched to using HPs as well instead of SPs on the profiles.
Kroothawk wrote: The second time you got steamrolled by a flood of superheavies, you won't play that opponent again or quit altogether.
Where is this flood of super-heavies coming from?
He's probably talking about WH40k: Escalation, which has rules about super heavies being used in regular 40k. Whether this will be allowed in tournaments remains to be seen.
I'd rather see FW in tournaments than super heavies, but that's just me.
Spoiler:
Warhammer 40,000: Escalation
Please note, this supplement is currently only available in English language.
Across the battlefields of the 41st Millenium, desperate commanders loose their greatest weapons of war. Classified “Lords of War” by the Imperium of Man, these vast and deadly assets bring a new level of destruction to the galaxy’s eternal war.
Warhammer 40,000: Escalation contains full rules for adding super-heavy vehicles and gargantuan creatures to every Warhammer 40,000 army. This means you can now use these massive models in games of Warhammer 40,000 as well as games of Apocalypse.
This 96-page, full colour, hardback supplement contains:
· A background section introducing Lords of War units and their terrifying impact on the battlefield.
· All the rules needed to play with super-heavy vehicles (including Flyers and Walkers) and Gargantuan Creatures, as well as rules for their potent wargear.
· An amended force organization chart that allows players to choose Lords of War units as part of their standard Warhammer 40,000 armies.
· Datasheets for every plastic super-heavy Citadel miniature, plus a selection of super-heavy vehicles and gargantuan creatures from Forge World.
· A showcase of expertly painted Lords of War Citadel miniatures.
· New Altar of War and Gauntlet Challenge missions that can be played instead of the Eternal War missions in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.
You will need a copy of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook and relevant codexes in order to use the contents of this book.
Availability: This product is available for Pre-order. Release Date Information.
Part Code: 60040199040
A few things on escalation:
1) It's $60, that makes it shelf bait.
2) It is no different then death from the skies, it adds a bunch of rules that no one will want to play against. Fighter ace rules don't need your opponents permission and we don't see them because its janky and stupid.
3) Very quickly people that actually do play will realize how dumb a super heavy game is out of apoc. Its either a ego stroke fest for the guy using it or its the fastest game ever. Either way its not going to have the impact people think. Plus "oh hey Im 10 sternguard in a drop pod with combi meltas, sorry about your luck" can happen a lot.
4) Tournaments will ban this stuff. Getting beat from good play and a hard list is fun for competitive gamers, getting janked and beaten by stupidity makes you feel like you wasted your time.
Yep. I'm rather disappointed, since I was hoping to see a nice, well-rounded selection of short stories that'd give everybody a turn in the spotlight. Though, given BL's usual output, that may have been a tad optimistic of me. But hey, there's still plenty of time.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Let's take bet at when the first non-space marine fiction will pop up. I bet on Friday the 13th, of course .
I'll guess by day 7. Or hope, rather. A solid week of only Marine stories would be a bit much, really.
We considered stories about an ogre Santa sneaking down Old World chimneys and eating children, or tales of the presents that dark eldar find in their stockings (I still have nightmares about that), but then we realised that what we all wanted was to explore a few of the named Space Marine characters from the background. Many of them have appeared in novels, novellas and short stories past, but some we are seeing for the first time.
Because that's different from what they do ALL THE fething TIME ? That's Black Library idea of a theme, more of the same gak ?
I hope they write some more stories about the 3rd company of the Imperial fists.. 100 space marines able to kill ANYTHING all the time.
Man, they should team up with Draigo so that together I imagine they could conquer the ENTIRE realm of chaos. (Yet in FW books, the entire minotaurs chapter could barely fight against 1 Necron world)
Sarouan wrote: Funny that when it's about 40k, people go on rampage about game balance but when it's about Battle, people just don't care.
This Restless Dead is, in fact, the same thing than the Tau formation; take a bunch of skeletons in your army without caring about your army book.
"
As others have pointed out, the relative power level of "moar Skeletons" to Riptides aren't really comparable. If they had added a 2+ Frost Pheonix + Mage Lord Battlescroll, that might be a different story.
Plus, how many people really expect balance out of WFB anymore?
I think it's premature to say the sky is falling due to the Fireblade Cadre. That said, holy coly, in two months, GW has added:
- Inquisitors as non-Ally slots
- Super Heavies via Escalation
- Battle Formations as non-Ally slits
- A boat-load of extra Fortifications
Independently, none of these are especially terrifying. In tandem, this opens the game to a lot combinations that I can't imagine were conceived when the individual army books were being developed. It feels like this is just a trial run for 7th (in line with rumors of "all allies, all the time" in 9th ed WFB), which should be a ways out.
I'll still play with my group, but these supplements have killed my interest in playing in tournaments.
Moreoever, if they're going to do Dataslates and balance-be-damned, could they make them more interesting from a fluff perspective? Maybe give Chaos Cults a look?
Kroothawk wrote: Don't think, tournament organisers are happy with GW's current attitude:
GW explicitly* doesn't like tournaments and you already knew that. So what's your point?
*that means they've actually said so.
That is a recent attitude from GW that flies in the face of what a lot of fans want purely because GW dislike the idea of actually competing with other companies.
It's the current designers that don't like tournaments. They have been trying to purge any traces of ideas and rules developed by Alessio Cavatore who came from a tournament background. I personally suspect Matt Ward is the driving force as he seems to develop rules that hurt tournament style play. The Reign of Chaos table being the prime example. A rule that deliberately interrupts and slows down the game.
Kroothawk wrote: Don't think, tournament organisers are happy with GW's current attitude:
"Who downloads latest, get's the most Riptides/superheavies/Apocalypse-formations/Primarchs and wins the game!"
Kroothawk wrote: Don't think, tournament organisers are happy with GW's current attitude: "Who downloads latest, get's the most Riptides/superheavies/Apocalypse-formations/Primarchs and wins the game!"
It's GW's version of Candy Crush!
Skull Crush! That was a joke, but...wow, yea, GW could do that. Lord knows GW has enough different types of skulls, and crushing skulls is very grimdark. You could be crushing skulls under the skull throne. And if you loose Khorne could crush you.
Kroothawk wrote: Don't think, tournament organisers are happy with GW's current attitude:
GW explicitly* doesn't like tournaments and you already knew that. So what's your point?
*that means they've actually said so.
That is a recent attitude from GW that flies in the face of what a lot of fans want purely because GW dislike the idea of actually competing with other companies.
It's the current designers that don't like tournaments. They have been trying to purge any traces of ideas and rules developed by Alessio Cavatore who came from a tournament background. I personally suspect Matt Ward is the driving force as he seems to develop rules that hurt tournament style play. The Reign of Chaos table being the prime example. A rule that deliberately interrupts and slows down the game.
was pre-ward 40k balanced for tourney play then? I was never 'into' fourth edition but i remember the options in codexes being no brainers, even compared today.
And wasn't second edition the one where virus bombs gave turn 1 victories? If 40k used to balanced then this is news to me.
Crimson wrote: Yeah, 40K was never balanced, but giving bunch of the most powerful units in the game a free buff is still lunacy.
Not really. Four riptides is just as cheesy as three, and just as likely to get a game from me. 40k has always relied on players to not be dicks to each other...this new stuff doesn't change anything about that.
xruslanx wrote: Not really. Four riptides is just as cheesy as three, and just as likely to get a game from me. 40k has always relied on players to not be dicks to each other...this new stuff doesn't change anything about that.
I haven't heard anyone say "cheesy" in an unironic fashion for ages. You're adorable xru!
xruslanx wrote: Not really. Four riptides is just as cheesy as three, and just as likely to get a game from me. 40k has always relied on players to not be dicks to each other...this new stuff doesn't change anything about that.
I haven't heard anyone say "cheesy" in an unironic fashion for ages. You're adorable xru!
i may not be down with the kids any more, but i understood 'cheese' to be shorthand for overpowered and unfluffy units or combination of units. If there is some other, embaressing connotation i'm unaware of, do please enlighten me.
Like a bolt out of war-torn skies comes the Storm Wing – salvation for the Emperor’s forces, and a bane to their foes. The Adeptus Astartes Storm Wing gives Warhammer 40,000 players background information and rules that allow them to collect and field this deadly combination of fighter-craft.
For the Adeptus Astartes to achieve their rapid strike style of warfare, they need to maintain air superiority. Nothing clears the upper atmosphere better than the Adeptus Astartes Storm Wing. Two Stormtalons and a Stormraven Gunship in tight formation can unleash a hail of shot to send enemy fighters spiraling downwards. Rule the skies!
avedominusnox wrote: So anyone any ideas what will this formation does? Apart from letting you take them only as allies.
While at least one of the Talons remains alive, the Raven gains Strafing Run. It's not a massive bonus considering it's mostly Twin-Linked already but it's still nice. Also due to it's status as a Formation rather than Ally slot, you can effectively give Ravens and Talons to Angels/Wolves provided they can front the cost of the Formation.
avedominusnox wrote: So anyone any ideas what will this formation does? Apart from letting you take them only as allies.
While at least one of the Talons remains alive, the Raven gains Strafing Run. It's not a massive bonus considering it's mostly Twin-Linked already but it's still nice. Also due to it's status as a Formation rather than Ally slot, you can effectively give Ravens and Talons to Angels/Wolves provided they can front the cost of the Formation.
But the big question is, can anyone ride in the storm raven?
avedominusnox wrote: So anyone any ideas what will this formation does? Apart from letting you take them only as allies.
While at least one of the Talons remains alive, the Raven gains Strafing Run. It's not a massive bonus considering it's mostly Twin-Linked already but it's still nice. Also due to it's status as a Formation rather than Ally slot, you can effectively give Ravens and Talons to Angels/Wolves provided they can front the cost of the Formation.
But the big question is, can anyone ride in the storm raven?
If you take it as an allied formation I guess that you can cannot ride anyone in it as the rules of alliance matrix still applies and even for battle brother it is prohibited. Apart from that I think from the quick first notes on this formation that it only confers rules for shooting and reserves and nothing for transport capabilities. Oh and I think that even this for armies like DA and SW is a big +.
Kroothawk wrote: Don't think, tournament organisers are happy with GW's current attitude:
GW explicitly* doesn't like tournaments and you already knew that. So what's your point?
*that means they've actually said so.
That is a recent attitude from GW that flies in the face of what a lot of fans want purely because GW dislike the idea of actually competing with other companies.
It's the current designers that don't like tournaments. They have been trying to purge any traces of ideas and rules developed by Alessio Cavatore who came from a tournament background. I personally suspect Matt Ward is the driving force as he seems to develop rules that hurt tournament style play. The Reign of Chaos table being the prime example. A rule that deliberately interrupts and slows down the game.
was pre-ward 40k balanced for tourney play then? I was never 'into' fourth edition but i remember the options in codexes being no brainers, even compared today.
And wasn't second edition the one where virus bombs gave turn 1 victories? If 40k used to balanced then this is news to me.
And yet it was Kelly who implemented both Chaos Tables in Fantasy and 40k..Hmm.
And no 4th edition wasn't, Skimmerspam ruled the day (Which was still Kelly's work ) What comes around, goes around for someone who has proven himself an imbalanced author again and again.
Hm I hope the Tempestus firebase gets rules since I actually bought that boxset..It didn't even come with the rules for the fortifications wtf.. you get those when you buy them individually.
I could imagine buying two of these formations and having them both come in on turn 2 would be quite devastating. The only way to deal with six flyers entering play at once is to have six units with interceptor, right? Two Tau Firebase Cadres should do it!
Excellent! Stand by for my captain with bolt pistol and chain sword, two squads of 5 Tactical Marines, the Tau formation, the Ghost Warriors formation and the Storm Wing formation.
Brometheus wrote: Excellent! Stand by for my captain with bolt pistol and chain sword, two squads of 5 Tactical Marines, the Tau formation, the Ghost Warriors formation and the Storm Wing formation.
Let's do this, fellas.
Nah, it should be a Warboss and two squads of Boyz. That way, you can tell people you're using your Ork army- bait and switch!
Edit: Bah, I got too excited. The allies matrix is still in effect for all these formations. It's still pseudo-Apocalypse rather than the full thing.
