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[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/22 05:28:13


Post by: Azazelx


Not interested in backing any more Mantic KS campaigns, but if the terrain turns out well, I'll be happy to buy it when it hits retail. In about three years.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/22 06:28:53


Post by: Pacific


Is there any mention of when the terrain KS is due ?

2018 would be fine, can get some stuff to arrive alongside HQ25!


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/22 09:25:40


Post by: Chillreaper


 Pacific wrote:
Is there any mention of when the terrain KS is due ?

2018 would be fine, can get some stuff to arrive alongside HQ25!



I know that I'm asking for trouble, but I'm more optimistic about HQ25 than that!

Having said that, I think that I'm done with Mantic Kickstarters - not had any problems with them, in fact they've been great; I just think that I've got a mountain of stuff already and I have only so many decades left in my life to play and paint it all.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/22 11:42:18


Post by: timetowaste85


 Chillreaper wrote:
 Pacific wrote:
Is there any mention of when the terrain KS is due ?

2018 would be fine, can get some stuff to arrive alongside HQ25!



I know that I'm asking for trouble, but I'm more optimistic about HQ25 than that!

Having said that, I think that I'm done with Mantic Kickstarters - not had any problems with them, in fact they've been great; I just think that I've got a mountain of stuff already and I have only so many decades left in my life to play and paint it all.


This is currently where I'm at. And with getting married soon...yeah, don't have time and won't have the disposable income for their Kickstarters. However, I've been nothing but happy with Mantic!!


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/24 12:38:45


Post by: DaveC


$60 pledge level looks like that's per "crate" of which there appears to be three, dungeon, town and battlefield




[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/24 13:36:37


Post by: ulgurstasta


I would be very much interested in backing a Mantic kickstarter, I just dont have any use for this one unfortunately.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/24 14:03:09


Post by: Maccwar


I might be interested in the modern stuff depending on what's in there.

I think I just spent a lot more than $60 at Salute on modern urban scenery.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/24 14:31:34


Post by: DaveC


There is no modern the KS is purely fantasy only it's been pointed out to them that they should remove the sci-fi tank from the artwork as it's causing confusion.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/24 15:16:15


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


If they can have enough goodies in there from the get go, they may lure me in.

Was pleasantly surprised by Walking Dead, after playing it this weekend and reading over the rules.

Now if they would just get back to us on what's happening with Star Saga and Dreadball, and finish off Warpath's fulfillment...


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/24 15:33:14


Post by: Maccwar


 DaveC wrote:
There is no modern the KS is purely fantasy only it's been pointed out to them that they should remove the sci-fi tank from the artwork as it's causing confusion.


I was under the impression that there would be three different crates available- Fantasy, Sci-Fi and Modern.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/24 16:05:27


Post by: DaveC


 Maccwar wrote:
 DaveC wrote:
There is no modern the KS is purely fantasy only it's been pointed out to them that they should remove the sci-fi tank from the artwork as it's causing confusion.


I was under the impression that there would be three different crates available- Fantasy, Sci-Fi and Modern.


3 crates

1 fantasy dungeon
2 fantasy town
3 fantasy battlefield - walls hedges etc.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/24 16:07:14


Post by: kodos


from the artwork I would have guessed at least for SciFi dungeon


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/24 16:11:13


Post by: DaveC


Confirmed on Facebook

Mantic Games
This Kickstarter is for fantasy scenery but we definitely have plans for future themes.


The artwork is for Terrain crate as a range which will include SciFi and modern at a later date but KS is just the fantasy range.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/24 16:19:50


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


I keep wondering if the "crate" part of the Terrain crate is going to be some sort of actual, usable, appropriately scaled terrain piece.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/24 16:59:53


Post by: Maccwar


 DaveC wrote:
Confirmed on Facebook

Mantic Games
This Kickstarter is for fantasy scenery but we definitely have plans for future themes.


The artwork is for Terrain crate as a range which will include SciFi and modern at a later date but KS is just the fantasy range.


Thanks for clarifying that. Looks like I might sit this one out then.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/25 19:00:35


Post by: DaveC


TerrainCrate – 24 hours until launch (6pm BST/1pm EST April 26th)

https://manticblog.com/2017/04/25/terraincrate-ronnie-kickstarter/

So, I think we are back in one of those – might be genius, could be madness moments. It’s always a bit tough to tell before! However, stick with me and then you can all pass comment.

I guess one of the reasons I got into gaming with miniatures was because the aesthetic is important to me. One of the best moments of the game is when you get down to eye level and look over the shoulders of your painted army, across the terrain and see the horde arrayed before you. Previously we have indulged a few of my passions for wargaming terrain with Deadzone and Mars Attacks. However, if I’m playing through a dungeon I want to be able to see where everything is, and what I’m fighting around – something we incorporated incredibly well into Dungeon Saga to create a nice mix of the board game and miniatures game experience.

However, I realised that while we have started to build items of dungeon furniture, there isn’t an affordable, durable and easy-to-use (i.e. mostly plastic) system for turning your dungeon (which might be card or big lovely pieces of Dwarvenite) into a fully 3D detailed adventure. Where are the items that make up the wizard’s study, or the torture chamber’s Iron Maidens or even the piles of treasure to hunt down?

All of these have been done in resin – but often by different manufacturers – and while they’re typically very nice, that option can get very expensive very quickly – and not to say fairly delicate when you’re getting them out their box time and time again. But because the TerrainCrate pieces will be made from the same plastic we used for both Dungeon Saga and The Walking Dead, they’ll be near indestructible! What’s more they are pre-coloured and assembled, so you can take them straight out the box (or Crate, more accurately) and start using them in your games.

The current plan is to go for three sets from the onset – all three of these are fantasy themes and every single piece that gets funded will be a new sculpt!

So what are the sets?

The classic Dungeon Set – which has a library, wizard’s study and piles of treasure.
The Battlefields Set – think walls, fences, camp sites and even a cart
The Town Set – including a Blacksmiths, Town Guardroom and Tavern.

Everything is designed to work together – so the food goods will fit in the back of the cart, and also on the table. As far as possible we have designed everything to be cross-compatible and there is significant crossover options between the sets – offering almost infinite game play options. You can pledge for one or three sets – and if you want to go deep on one – do it – the choice is all yours.

While I’d love to say Mantic is big enough to live without Kickstarter, that’s not quite true. However, I have written that we are scaling it back, and only bringing projects that require significant funding or where we need a big print run to help get the game into production. This has to be one of the systems – to get it from nothing to three full schemes right out of the gates, Mantic will need some help. The good news is that means a couple of weeks of good style, old school Mantic madness – where our backers get whole heaps of terrain to build towns to explore, rolling fields to battle over and Dungeons to plunder.

I hope this is going to be a massive and fun ride, and at the end we will have funded a great scheme that’ll give everyone the tabletop 3D terrain they have always dreamed of.

Oh – and why is it called TerrainCrate – well because each themed set will come in its very own… crate! The crate will be able to store all your terrain after you’ve unpacked it – with a bit of spare room in case you make any add-on purchases – and it’ll be exclusive to Kickstarter Backers and game stores that back the campaign.

Thanks for reading and enjoy the TerrainCrate campaign!

Ronnie


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/25 20:08:32


Post by: lord_blackfang


$180 for the sweet spot pledge will be rough


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/25 20:47:32


Post by: ced1106


I wrote on their blog a request for an "all in one" pledge level. Maybe if enough of us do it, we'll get one!

EDIT: Whoops! They have an "all in one" pledge.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/25 20:58:35


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


I thought the sweet spot pledges always hovered around 100.

Would love to see that here. The way Ronnie's explanation is, I expect to see a good amount of scenery on display.

Food that fits on the back of carts and on tables? I like the sound of that.

Also the comment about seeing where funding takes them, makes me think we may see a scifi crate at some point during the campaign as well.

Especially if they run it a bit longer.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/25 21:02:58


Post by: lord_blackfang


Ronnie posted that there will be a special pledge level that gets you all 3 sets for $60 each. This leads me to believe that this is the sweet spot and smaller pledges will be more expensive per set.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/25 21:11:36


Post by: DaveC


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Ronnie posted that there will be a special pledge level that gets you all 3 sets for $60 each. This leads me to believe that this is the sweet spot and smaller pledges will be more expensive per set.


1 crate is confirmed at $60 3 crates at $60 each is $180 no saving there it would make more sense to do all 3 for $150 get 1 for half price.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/25 21:59:27


Post by: Bolognesus


It's Mantic. That's the deal they'll unveil halfway through the KS when pledge totals aren't exactly coming along as planned... again... and after lots of folks have already committed mentally to not pledge.
Was like that on DZ2, was like that on WP, and will be like that here


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/25 22:06:36


Post by: lord_blackfang


I'll just grab the highest possible pledge EB and try to ignore the campaign, save myself the headache.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/25 22:06:45


Post by: Barzam


If they wind up having a modern/Walking Dead/Mars Attacks themed set, I'll probably go in on this one.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/26 02:49:57


Post by: Azazelx


 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'll just grab the highest possible pledge EB and try to ignore the campaign, save myself the headache.


Just beware the trap of their shipping charges. You don't want the Star Saga experience...


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/26 04:04:28


Post by: ced1106


 Azazelx wrote:
Just beware the trap of their shipping charges. You don't want the Star Saga experience...


Did the yanks get the shaft as well? CMON's charging $24 for shipping for its KS now. No idea when I'll kick the habit.

Anyway, on the Mantic FB page:

Ciaran Morris So I'm that guy... did a slow-mo and counted 66 pieces in total, of about 36 different types, with a couple of variants of repeated pieces (bookcases and mine tracks at first pass).

Here's the list that I could make out:
ITEM TYPE QUANTITY
Armour pile 1
Astronomer's Orrery 1
Barrel Set 2
Bookcase - Corner 1
Bookcase - Narrow 1
Bookcase - Wide 2
Brick Rubble - Large 2
Brick Rubble - Small 2
Candelabra - Tall 2
Chests & Scrolls pile 2
Giant Rat/Tabletop - Rat 2
Hasty Door Barricade 2
Hasty Table Barricade 2
Mage's Dresser - Wide 1
Mine Cart 2
Mine Explosives Barrel 2
Mine Pickaxe 2
Mine Track - Curve 2
Mine Track - Straight 6
Mine Track Bumper 2
Scribe's Dresser - Wide 1
Stone Pillar 2
Stones/Rocks pile - Small 2
Stones/Rocks/Ore pile - Large 2
Tabletop - Books pile 1
Tabletop - Candles 1
Tabletop - Gold Sack 2
Tabletop - Map & Scrolls 1
Tabletop - Platter & Chalice 2
Tabletop - Potions & Bottles 1
Tabletop - Skull 2
Treasure Hoard - Large 2
Treasure Hoard - Medium 2
Treasure Hoard - Small 2
Wooden Crate 2
Wooden Crates Set 2

So that's less than $1 a piece - I'll have that thanks very much!

And that's before stretch goals roll in. I know there are a few teases not included in that video, such as the Crystals outcrop, Training Dummy, Sword in the Stone, Tall pile of tabletop books, Mage's Desk, Mage's Owl + Stand and the Bookcase ladder, some of which may be in different sets but it shows there is alot of stuff on the way regardless!


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/26 07:10:28


Post by: Azazelx


ced1106 wrote:

Did the yanks get the shaft as well? CMON's charging $24 for shipping for its KS now. No idea when I'll kick the habit.


I believe the bigger issues were related to add-ons - specifically their shipping being radically more than it had any right to be based on even courier options. Squig posted some specific info on it.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/26 08:32:33


Post by: ced1106


Gotcha. Add-ons are always more expensive than the base pledge, so I pass on them (glad I did for Myth). And, at $180 for all three sets, it's going to be hard enough on the cash flow with Reaper and Dwarven Forge!


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/26 12:45:20


Post by: DaveC


KS video showing more of the town and battlefield sets plus other dungeon bits not yet seen.

https://www.facebook.com/manticgames/videos/10155150496457319/


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/26 13:03:08


Post by: Nostromodamus


So it starts at 1pm EST today, any news on if there will be EB?


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/26 13:06:46


Post by: SeanDrake


 Azazelx wrote:
ced1106 wrote:

Did the yanks get the shaft as well? CMON's charging $24 for shipping for its KS now. No idea when I'll kick the habit.


I believe the bigger issues were related to add-ons - specifically their shipping being radically more than it had any right to be based on even courier options. Squig posted some specific info on it.


That turned out to be a backer kit issue as it totals the individual postage of addons up, but when you checkout it drops down to the correct price. Which If I remember correctly was only slightly more than previous KS.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/26 13:49:10


Post by: Sining


Squig also mentioned that a few posts later as well. Guess Azazel missed that


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/26 13:55:02


Post by: judgedoug


 Azazelx wrote:
ced1106 wrote:

Did the yanks get the shaft as well? CMON's charging $24 for shipping for its KS now. No idea when I'll kick the habit.


I believe the bigger issues were related to add-ons - specifically their shipping being radically more than it had any right to be based on even courier options. Squig posted some specific info on it.


That was due to you needing to actually get to the end of the pledge manager when it confirmed your address. Mine went from $40 down to like $15 after inputting the final ship-to address.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/26 14:07:45


Post by: Nostromodamus


Will there be EB?


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/26 14:27:47


Post by: DaveC


KS runs to May 14th.

EBs it's been asked but no response yet. On $60 seems unlikely CMON dropped EBs for Rising Sun and Mantic have a habit of observing then following.

Edit limited pledge level for all 3 crates

Mantic Games Hi Dru - we've got a limited pledge for three Crates but we've made sure there are plenty available so everyone should have an opportunity to grab one.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/26 17:09:47


Post by: DaveC


Hmmm they bumped the single crate to $75 it's only $60 each if you get the limited 3 crate pledge level. Might be interested in the Dungeon set see how it goes.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/26 17:13:46


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


In for 3. My kids'll love it.

I love having tons of scenery all over the place.

Pricey, but hopefully those stretch goals make it worth it.

Or we see the usual desperate middle of the campaign "throw tons of crap at backers to really entice them."


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/26 17:19:54


Post by: lord_blackfang


 DaveC wrote:
Hmmm they bumped the single crate to $75 it's only $60 each if you get the limited 3 crate pledge level.


So exactly like I said.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/04/26 17:22:07


Post by: DaveC


There's a new thread for Terrain Crate now

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/724424.page


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/05/06 17:39:55


Post by: Zywus


Previously unreleased Twilight kin knights to be released as Abyssal Horsemen.

Courtesy of http://blog.untilsomebodylosesaneye.net/2017/05/thundering-out-of-abyss.html



Spoiler:












I'm not particularly impressed sadly, but i'd say they're at least serviceable. If they're not too expensive, they might be something worst considering.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/05/08 04:10:38


Post by: Micky


Nice to see those guys actually get released, they've been around for years just never came out because the army they were made for didn't happen


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/05/08 16:33:03


Post by: kodos


like them
not the best, but there are not many evil/dark riders around


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/05/08 16:42:14


Post by: MasterSlowPoke


I've got a squad of them from the first Kickstarter and it never occured to me to use them, even though I had been looking for good options for Abyssal Horsemen.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/05/09 04:30:47


Post by: Azazelx


Sining wrote:
Squig also mentioned that a few posts later as well. Guess Azazel missed that


Indeed I did. I'm not following Mantic too closely these days, but if it was backerkit and not Mantic - and he add-on postage worked out tp be sane then that's clearly a good thing for all involved - both backers and Mantic itself.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/05/09 05:04:40


Post by: MLaw


 Zywus wrote:
Previously unreleased Twilight kin knights to be released as Abyssal Horsemen.

Courtesy of http://blog.untilsomebodylosesaneye.net/2017/05/thundering-out-of-abyss.html



Spoiler:












I'm not particularly impressed sadly, but i'd say they're at least serviceable. If they're not too expensive, they might be something worst considering.


I really hope the figures are from their older days.. The soft details on what should be gorgeous crisp armor makes it look like someone left them in the oven or something. I would definitely look at swapping the arms for maybe Wraiths or something and get some of those awesome heads from Puppetswar (the horned skulls or the flaming ones.. or a few others). Solid concept though.. and yeah.. not nearly enough of those types on the market... which should be a crime considering how iconic the dark rider archetype is.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/05/09 05:13:06


Post by: Azazelx


I believe they're from the first KoW kickstarter. The one where they went head-first into Restic production. (and given some of the Pre-KS restic stuff that they had such as the Undead Horsemen and the Wights, it wasn't a terrible idea. More a decent idea executed badly (in terms of the factory, poor QC by both the factory and Mantic and a bit too much "good enough".

So yeah, quite a few years old now. Their current stuff is generally much better in terms of casting. Though the sculpts on these are still solid, and better than some of their current stuff.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/05/12 11:24:38


Post by: ulgurstasta



Have these been posted yet?


Salamanders
Spoiler:






Possible steel behomoth

Spoiler:




[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/05/12 14:13:16


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


Salamanders are certainly up my alley.

That steel behemoth is interesting. Too bad my sky dwarf airships have basically filled that position for me.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/05/12 14:17:18


Post by: Galas


If they made the Salamander Tyrant some type of monster infantry, I'll buying the heck out of them. I have never fielded Kroxigor for how ugly they are, but the Salamander models of Mantic are pretty sweet.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/05/12 14:57:12


Post by: Boss Salvage


 Galas wrote:
If they made the Salamander Tyrant some type of monster infantry ...
They're Monstrous Infantry in the game And the designs look great - helps that they look a lot like the basic Salamanders Mantic have already made (IMO one of their best kits)

- Salvage


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/05/12 15:30:14


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


Kroxigors are one of those outdated sculpts that if anyone, literally any company came in with a nicely sculpted and priced alternative, a killing could be made.

Especially in plastic. I'm going to guess those Tyrants are going to be metal or resin though. I can wish for plastic though!

I have no idea why nobody has ever really gone for a modern version. Those suckers are sooooooo outdated!


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/05/12 17:40:32


Post by: lord_blackfang


Here's hoping for affordable Tyrants, they look great. Not so much the Steel Behemoth. That's some goofy gak right there.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/05/12 21:23:37


Post by: MLaw


 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Kroxigors are one of those outdated sculpts that if anyone, literally any company came in with a nicely sculpted and priced alternative, a killing could be made.

Especially in plastic. I'm going to guess those Tyrants are going to be metal or resin though. I can wish for plastic though!

I have no idea why nobody has ever really gone for a modern version. Those suckers are sooooooo outdated!


That's the one model (IIRC) that Chapterhouse got spanked on.. Granted, doing a Lizard version of a rat ogre shouldn't be that hard to steer away from IP.. but thought I would point it out.

EDIT:
HOLY CRAP.. the art for the lizards is awesome (I hadn't seen that when I typed the above).

Steel Behemoth still looks way too early in concept to make much out of it... unless.. is the weird 80s cartoon vehicle underneath it meant to be what they landed on off of that concept art? That.. is.. uh.. anyone have more info? My head hurts trying to figure out how they got from A to B on that..


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/05/12 21:53:52


Post by: Tamereth


I've not been taken by the salamanders manic have released so far, but those not Kroxigors look promising. A nice resin kit would have my interest. I just hope they don't all have flaming weapons as that wouldn't fit in with my lizardmen.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/05/15 00:44:13


Post by: Carnikang


Salamanders are making me drool.

I'm still miffed that GW Resculpted the Kroxigors and they still look like gak. I got me some Not-Kroxigors from a caster over seas, but these would be much more easily attained.... here's hoping for plastic.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/05/15 06:35:39


Post by: mattjgilbert


 Tamereth wrote:
I've not been taken by the salamanders manic have released so far, but those not Kroxigors look promising. A nice resin kit would have my interest. I just hope they don't all have flaming weapons as that wouldn't fit in with my lizardmen.
That screenshot is of the Ghekkotah Clutch Warden hero from the supper campaign.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/05/15 13:33:37


Post by: Boss Salvage


It was clarified on the Mantic forum that this lizardy guy -



- is in fact a Placoderm Defender for Trident Realms! As well as pretty great looking.

ETA for Tyrants is end of 2017, the heroes are resin and hit in a couple of months. Would be very interested in a plastic / resin kit of Placoderms like that lad!

- Salvage


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/05/16 06:42:25


Post by: lord_blackfang


Doesn't look much like an armoured fish tho.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/05/16 17:14:43


Post by: MLaw


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Doesn't look much like an armoured fish tho.


I think they're going for a bit of a Sahuagin look.. (which I very much approve of)

Spoiler:


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/05/16 20:14:40


Post by: Alpharius


Obligatory Old School AD&D 1E shout out!

Spoiler:


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/06 19:02:36


Post by: DaveC


Characters for the KoW summer campaign

they are resin and will be sold separately. Release date is July. Pre-orders will be going up soon.








[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/06 19:19:28


Post by: Gallahad


Aww man, that mage in the last pic is about to do some serious dance moves. Moves so good you might even say they're....magic


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/06 20:31:32


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Those look pretty cool, I like the first and last especially.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/06 20:38:14


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 Gallahad wrote:
Aww man, that mage in the last pic is about to do some serious dance moves. Moves so good you might even say they're....magic


Similar thought here.

That mage don't impress me much.




(Actually it's a really cool sculpt.)


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/06 23:01:51


Post by: .Mikes.






Cannot unsee.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/06 23:30:49


Post by: Galas


Yeah, all of this sculpts are pretty good. They don't have anything to envy to GW. Good to see mantic improving! Their Sci-fi ranges are all lovely, but is obvious how the Kings of War range was the first they have done.

My favourite is the female demon with the whip. I have a sweet spot for those helmets that cover the superior half of the face Angewomon-style


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/07 01:00:05


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


I like the looks of all of them, but I'm sure Dakka knows where my loyalties truly lie.

My only worry is with the whip brandishing vampire killer, and the fragility of said whip.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/07 01:27:27


Post by: Theophony


 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I like the looks of all of them, but I'm sure Dakka knows where my loyalties truly lie.

My only worry is with the whip brandishing vampire killer, and the fragility of said whip.


Don't worry, it's Mantic, by the time it's produced it will be a missile launcher and the model will be made of tar . Or they could be proactive and ship each one with a spaghetti noodle, just cook until it's begins to go a little soft then glue into place. You can even eat the leftovers.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/07 04:18:23


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


I wasn't too impressed with the resin they used for Tyrant King Blaine, but the more Prodos-like resin they have used on their large Abyssals and elementals is a good material. Still, I'm hoping they release a version of each in boardgame plastic.


 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I like the looks of all of them, but I'm sure Dakka knows where my loyalties truly lie.

My only worry is with the whip brandishing vampire killer, and the fragility of said whip.


I'm worried about the fragility of the vampire killer. Don't you dare break her heart. She deserves better.




[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/07 14:02:13


Post by: corgan


 DaveC wrote:
Characters for the KoW summer campaign

they are resin and will be sold separately. Release date is July. Pre-orders will be going up soon.








When are they going to be available at the webstore?


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/07 14:45:58


Post by: Maccwar


 corgan wrote:
When are they going to be available at the webstore?


It was in the post you quoted!

they are resin and will be sold separately. Release date is July. Pre-orders will be going up soon.


Some nice miniatures in there. I hope all the new stuff from now on matches these for sculpting.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/07 16:53:48


Post by: corgan


 Maccwar wrote:
 corgan wrote:
When are they going to be available at the webstore?


It was in the post you quoted!

they are resin and will be sold separately. Release date is July. Pre-orders will be going up soon.


Some nice miniatures in there. I hope all the new stuff from now on matches these for sculpting.


True

I suppose I was majested by the minis.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/07 20:30:22


Post by: MLaw


I just want to re-position the mages' head so he's dabbing..


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/07 21:59:52


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


NO DABBING.

I swear to God I will take a students' recess away the moment they start dabbing near me.

Don't think I don't see you trying to play it off when I walk past your desks either.

dabbing...


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/07 22:08:18


Post by: MLaw


If you hate that, my twerking lizardman probably isn't going to be for you either..


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/12 16:49:19


Post by: DaveC


Revenant King on Undead Wyrm WIP (not a finished miniature!)




[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/12 19:54:54


Post by: Zywus


A bit hard to see how it curls around itself when it's in all grey. I think I like it though.

Judging by the size of the rider, it's pretty huge. I'm not a big fan of the recent Mantic trend of making their monsters too big to fit on their nominal base-size. Although I might overestimate the bulk a bit?


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/12 20:55:26


Post by: Azazelx


Hm, all of these sculpts look quite nice. Are they going to be available from other retailers, or only direct from Mantic?


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/12 23:08:08


Post by: JoshInJapan


Will that Wyrm fit on a 50mm base?


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/13 09:48:36


Post by: Maccwar


 JoshInJapan wrote:
Will that Wyrm fit on a 50mm base?


Not without mounting it on a big rock or something similar. It looks like they have used the 3d model or the Dungeon Saga dragon as a basis for the sculpt so I would guess that it will fit on a 75mm base along with the other DS Dragon derivatives.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The summer campaign characters are now up for pre-order at £7.99 each.

http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/new/kings-of-war.html

The Placoderm Defender is also up for pre-order but the photo hasn't been released yet.


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/13 16:00:20


Post by: Boss Salvage


Zywus wrote:I'm not a big fan of the recent Mantic trend of making their monsters too big to fit on their nominal base-size.
Maccwar wrote:It looks like they have used the 3d model or the Dungeon Saga dragon as a basis for the sculpt so I would guess that it will fit on a 75mm base along with the other DS Dragon derivatives.
Is there a non-metal Mantic large monster that isn't on a 75mm base? They seem so consistent that one supposes 75mm will be a thing in KOW 3.0 ... and the scuttle is that some monsters may have upgradable profiles, that come with a base size bump from 50 to 75 as well. Though it does feel like 3.0 is some ways off.
The Placoderm Defender is also up for pre-order but the photo hasn't been released yet.
Sad. Face.

- Salvage


[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/14 12:16:51


Post by: Esker


Hi all, this is my first post on Dakka!

Is the new two player set old news?

The Battle of the Glades contents:
  • 20 Hard Plastic Naiad Ensnarers/Heartpiercers

  • 20 Hard Plastic Salamanders

  • 1 Metal Druid

  • 20 Hard Plastic Lower Abyssals/Flamebearers

  • 20 Hard Plastic Succubi

  • 1 Metal Abyssal Champion

  • 1 Kings of War Gamer’s Edition Rulebook



  • [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/14 16:36:23


    Post by: lord_blackfang


    It's news to me. Looking good. And welcome to Dakka!


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/14 21:45:19


    Post by: BobtheInquisitor


    What is the price?


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/15 11:04:19


    Post by: Esker


     BobtheInquisitor wrote:
    What is the price?


    Firestormgames have RRP listed as £49.99.

    Using Mantic's conversion rate, it should have an RRP of US$75 or EUR 65.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/15 11:54:15


    Post by: Krinsath


    Hmmm...I've had a passing interest in both the naiads and the succubi models, so such a thing might end up on the radar.

    Unfortunately between 40k and Red Thunder for Team Yankee, I'm not sure I'll have the budget to pick it up immediately.

    EDIT: And welcome to Dakka, Esker!


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/15 18:50:54


    Post by: Maccwar


    And the final one has shown up. This one is on a 25mm base but the price is the same.




    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/15 19:23:46


    Post by: Eilif


    Have not been following things. What's the deal with the summer campaign?

    Are these charachters for a soon-to-be-released campaign book?


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/15 20:04:53


    Post by: Maccwar


     Eilif wrote:
    Have not been following things. What's the deal with the summer campaign?

    Are these charachters for a soon-to-be-released campaign book?




    This soon to be released campaign book available for pre-order at £13.49? Maybe.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/18 00:41:40


    Post by: Azazelx


    Another nice model. Mantic is on a roll.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/18 02:59:57


    Post by: NinthMusketeer


     Maccwar wrote:
    And the final one has shown up. This one is on a 25mm base but the price is the same.

    Spoiler:

    Dam, that is the best looking fish-man miniature I've ever seen. Nice work on Mantic's part.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/07/01 01:06:28


    Post by: TheWaspinator


    Do we have a rough size or base size for the Tree Herder? Trying to judge him relative to GW Treelords.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/07/11 11:30:12


    Post by: sukura636


    Images of the Tree Herder are up, including a size comparison.

    [Thumb - 20024139_10155394573727319_6140405185827261505_o.jpg]
    [Thumb - 19956297_10155394574602319_7235049196941746438_o.jpg]


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/07/11 11:53:20


    Post by: NTRabbit


    That's either a better paint job, a better photo, or both


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/07/11 12:04:09


    Post by: Slinky


    I like it - I need 3 Ents for LOTR, may look at these


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/07/11 12:05:17


    Post by: Mymearan


    Reminds me of the 90s GW treemen.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/07/11 12:55:02


    Post by: DarkBlack


    Must. Not. Buy. Tree. Army.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/07/11 13:03:32


    Post by: ulgurstasta


    Looks petty good!


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/07/11 13:24:34


    Post by: NTRabbit


    Another good thing is that it's clearly on a 50x50 base, and not on one of those 75x75 bases they're slowly sneaking into the game in pursuit of the "I can't play without a centrepiece" market


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/07/12 01:36:48


    Post by: TheWaspinator


    Based on my estimation based on base sizes, looks like he's a pretty close match to the height of current GW Treelords. Close enough for me to want to use some of both to improve variety in one of my in-progress armies, anyway.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/07/22 15:29:55


    Post by: DaveC


    KoW Vanguard test game picture posted on Facebook. Not much to tell other than it appears to be a 3x3 table set up



    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/08/03 10:45:15


    Post by: sukura636


    Looks like the new Undead Wyrm was shown off on Monday

    Spoiler:





    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/07 19:37:35


    Post by: Zywus


    Pic of a painted Wyrm:



    I think this might have a different rider than that unpainted one?


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/07 20:14:28


    Post by: Polonius


    That's... actually quite nice.

    Probably the nicest thing Mantic has put out.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/07 21:15:29


    Post by: ncshooter426


    I feel Mantic is going through their renaissance period. GW went through it - the transition from ho-hum models to really good sculpts (unfortunately they kept going into the realm of "look what we can do from a production standpoint!" era). I was super happy with the Zombies, and even their new Deadzone models turned out quite nice without losing the "mantic charm".

    I'm weird, I like Mantic models. The only ones I didn't like were Basilea, and that's due to their production issues with China - so much fail on the scaling and detail translation :(


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/07 23:00:13


    Post by: Nostromodamus


    Still don't like the Wyrn, but the Treeman is ok.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/07 23:07:19


    Post by: Tamereth


    The wyrm looks like a half finished model to me. Don't know if it's the lack of legs or the pose.

    Treeman is aces, and larger than expected.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/08 18:32:49


    Post by: ncshooter426


    I...I actually kinda dig this, and I usually hate dwarves



    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/08 18:47:27


    Post by: Alpharius


    Ha!

    That's actually pretty cool, in a weird over-the-top way!


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/08 19:03:13


    Post by: BobtheInquisitor


    Rita has returned. I need five octogenarians with attitude!


    But seriously, please tell me there are no metal parts on that.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/08 20:23:09


    Post by: krazynadechukr


     sukura636 wrote:
    Images of the Tree Herder are up, including a size comparison.
    WOW! I needs these as Ents on my LOTR army! Can you show a scale pic of these with LOTR minis?


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/08 21:06:23


    Post by: Prestor Jon


     krazynadechukr wrote:
     sukura636 wrote:
    Images of the Tree Herder are up, including a size comparison.
    WOW! I needs these as Ents on my LOTR army! Can you show a scale pic of these with LOTR minis?


    The character model on the right should be the same size as a LOTR hero. The smaller tree creature is on a 40mm base and the Ent should be on a 50mm base if that helps.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/09 08:01:40


    Post by: Azazelx


    I assume the Ram is a Steel Behemoth? Looks pretty nice.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/09 08:45:58


    Post by: NTRabbit


    Pretty sure I remember it being one of the napkin sketch concepts a long time ago, certainly a different direction from the wheeled and tusked 3D model they showed off at an open day in May.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/09 11:55:31


    Post by: DaveC


     BobtheInquisitor wrote:
    Rita has returned. I need five octogenarians with attitude!


    But seriously, please tell me there are no metal parts on that.


    Confirmed on Facebook as a resin miniature


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/09 12:40:04


    Post by: Illumini


    Good to see mantic starting to up their game. Excter is a really great miniature, and most of the recent releases are at least decent / pretty good.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/09 14:33:03


    Post by: BobtheInquisitor


     DaveC wrote:
     BobtheInquisitor wrote:
    Rita has returned. I need five octogenarians with attitude!


    But seriously, please tell me there are no metal parts on that.


    Confirmed on Facebook as a resin miniature


    Yay! Thanks.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/09 14:49:26


    Post by: lord_blackfang


    Not bad on the Steel Behemoth. And its mecha-animal nature validates those of us who have been using Wyrmgear (not my pic)


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/16 21:48:51


    Post by: Zywus


    Some pictures of unpainted and/or unassembled Wyrm and Steel behemoth





    Seems time to update the thread title a bit BTW.
    Should someone contact a mod, or how's this normally handled?


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/16 23:06:09


    Post by: Theophony


     Zywus wrote:
    Some pictures of unpainted and/or unassembled Wyrm and Steel behemoth





    Seems time to update the thread title a bit BTW.
    Should someone contact a mod, or how's this normally handled?

    Press the yellow triangle in the top corner of your post to contact a MOD and then give them a quick word on what needs to be done.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/18 20:28:29


    Post by: ncshooter426


    I just assembled 2 of the new living legends from the summer campaign. These models are *great* folks - super good detail and resin had no real defects out of the box. Only minor filling around the tail section for Eckter.

    Mantic really stepped up their game on those two for sure, want to pick up the abyssal chick at some point now


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/19 06:38:53


    Post by: ulgurstasta


    Hopefully some rumors about vanguard will start dripping down soon, because I'm going crazy waiting for it



    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/21 20:22:28


    Post by: DaveC


     ulgurstasta wrote:
    Hopefully some rumors about vanguard will start dripping down soon, because I'm going crazy waiting for it



    https://www.facebook.com/manticgames/videos/10155599279892319/


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/22 18:24:56


    Post by: Theophony


     DaveC wrote:
     ulgurstasta wrote:
    Hopefully some rumors about vanguard will start dripping down soon, because I'm going crazy waiting for it



    https://www.facebook.com/manticgames/videos/10155599279892319/

    Well that was a waste of 14 seconds of my life....like reading this post I guess.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/22 19:44:12


    Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


    Dammit! Now you owe me 28 seconds! Oh God... its spreading.... no one read this!


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/23 16:56:59


    Post by: Psychopomp


     Theophony wrote:
     DaveC wrote:
     ulgurstasta wrote:
    Hopefully some rumors about vanguard will start dripping down soon, because I'm going crazy waiting for it



    https://www.facebook.com/manticgames/videos/10155599279892319/

    Well that was a waste of 14 seconds of my life....like reading this post I guess.


    *sees Mantic Facebook post being all, "Big news from Mantic!" clicks video, starts sip of coffee*

    "TU TU RUUUU! VANGUARD!"

    *finishes sip of coffee, raises eyebrow, moves on to news with actual information*


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/23 18:53:25


    Post by: ArtIsGreat


    They had a post on their forums asking what people wanted or expected from Vanguard, wonder what they settled on.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/25 09:04:13


    Post by: Maccwar


    Well those of us who actually have information about Vanguard are under NDA.

    I'm looking forward to Mantic officially releasing some information so I can discuss things. Until then my lips are sealed.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/25 11:04:13


    Post by: lord_blackfang


    Well, I think I'm allowed to say my gaming group quite enjoys it.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/25 14:34:16


    Post by: kodos


    I just hope it is about Deadzone size


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/25 16:35:48


    Post by: DaveC


     kodos wrote:
    I just hope it is about Deadzone size


    Test game shown on Facebook showed a 3x3 table - that's not to say it can't be bigger or smaller.

    https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/6090/445605.page#9507640


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/25 17:08:34


    Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


    I just hope that even if in-game it is clean and rules-light, that it has a LOT of crunch between games. I want meaningful progression, leveling, loot. I want base-building, between-game events etc...

    After cutting my teeth on real Necromunda, and seeing modern games like Frostgrave and This is Not a Test, I want something more substantial than FG, not lighter.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/25 18:14:20


    Post by: kodos


     DaveC wrote:

    Test game shown on Facebook showed a 3x3 table - that's not to say it can't be bigger or smaller.

    https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/6090/445605.page#9507640


    I know that picture but it does not mean much without the details

    I like KoW but don't have a need large Skirmish game as SAGA fills the slot here (historical and fantasy).
    So if Vanguard ends up using 20+ models for a standard game, I am out

    If it is more like Deadzone and/or RPG like (ands also comes with terrain) it would be an instabuy.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/25 18:57:22


    Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


    http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/new/the-walking-dead-all-out-war.html

    As a random aside while we wait on Vanguard stuff... this is an AMAZING deal. Walking Dead really caught me off guard as a very quick playing, but surprisingly strategic game. It really inhabits that "X-wing" space, of being quick, accessible, and fun when you want to play a table-top game, but don't quite want to set up a 6x4 for 40k, etc...

    If you take a dinged up outer box, these are something like 40% off retail, and include a bunch of exclusives you can't buy elsewhere.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/25 19:05:41


    Post by: Mymearan


    NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
    I just hope that even if in-game it is clean and rules-light, that it has a LOT of crunch between games. I want meaningful progression, leveling, loot. I want base-building, between-game events etc...

    After cutting my teeth on real Necromunda, and seeing modern games like Frostgrave and This is Not a Test, I want something more substantial than FG, not lighter.


    Yeah so many recent attempts at skirmish campaign games have failed at this... if the campaign system isn't at least as involved as Necromunda, I pretty much instantly dismiss it. It's more important to me than the actual gameplay rules. Haven't looked at This is not a Test but it seems to be the only one that does it right from what I hear. Frostgrave is out simply because you only have two (one?) real, actual characters in your warband.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/25 21:55:05


    Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


     Mymearan wrote:
    NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
    I just hope that even if in-game it is clean and rules-light, that it has a LOT of crunch between games. I want meaningful progression, leveling, loot. I want base-building, between-game events etc...

    After cutting my teeth on real Necromunda, and seeing modern games like Frostgrave and This is Not a Test, I want something more substantial than FG, not lighter.


    Yeah so many recent attempts at skirmish campaign games have failed at this... if the campaign system isn't at least as involved as Necromunda, I pretty much instantly dismiss it. It's more important to me than the actual gameplay rules. Haven't looked at This is not a Test but it seems to be the only one that does it right from what I hear. Frostgrave is out simply because you only have two (one?) real, actual characters in your warband.


    Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Frostgrave. I think for that level of "crunch" rules-wise, it is an excellent game, and between all of its expansions, it has a wealth of fun options. It just doesn't quite always satisfy me as a campaign system. Its terrific... but not quite my skirmish-RPG holy-grail. The closest to that is probably This is Not a Test, but it just needs a LOAD more content to maintain longevity, and new campaign content really doesn't come out all that often.

    Also, just to reiterate the above, i'm hearing those "2nd Chance" Walking Dead KS editions I linked to are down to the last few. Ronnie's actually picking orders himself.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/26 00:47:46


    Post by: Azazelx


    NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

    Also, just to reiterate the above, i'm hearing those "2nd Chance" Walking Dead KS editions I linked to are down to the last few. Ronnie's actually picking orders himself.


    Do they have all of the KS stuff in them? Is "Atlanta" aka "Days Gone Bye"?


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/26 03:48:34


    Post by: highlord tamburlaine


    I too am hopeful for this one.

    Not too many figures, not too over reliant on mages, with a bit of character building between battles.

    Dracula's America looks hopeful in terms of campaign stuff (and I can use my extensive Brimstone & Malifaux collections) but it's western, not fantasy.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/26 04:43:32


    Post by: Gallahad


    I just wanted to pop in and say that I feel like I am going to perish of old age before Mantic release the new Men at Arms. The original ones were the last thing I bought from them...


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/26 12:43:31


    Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


     Azazelx wrote:
    NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

    Also, just to reiterate the above, i'm hearing those "2nd Chance" Walking Dead KS editions I linked to are down to the last few. Ronnie's actually picking orders himself.


    Do they have all of the KS stuff in them? Is "Atlanta" aka "Days Gone Bye"?


    I believe "Days Gone Bye" was the first bigger expansion (The Greene farm, characters/scenarios) but don't hold me to it.

    Edit: I'm wrong, you're right. Days Gone By is Atlanta, and yes its contents are included in the KS bundle.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/28 07:40:23


    Post by: ulgurstasta


    NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
    I just hope that even if in-game it is clean and rules-light, that it has a LOT of crunch between games. I want meaningful progression, leveling, loot. I want base-building, between-game events etc...

    After cutting my teeth on real Necromunda, and seeing modern games like Frostgrave and This is Not a Test, I want something more substantial than FG, not lighter.


    While I also have hope for an extensive campaign system, I dont think thats gonna happen for Vanguard, at least not initially. Doesn't really fit Mantic memo


     Maccwar wrote:
    Well those of us who actually have information about Vanguard are under NDA.

    I'm looking forward to Mantic officially releasing some information so I can discuss things. Until then my lips are sealed.


    Well hopefully they will unseal your lips soon, because I dont think this radio silence is helping building up interest for Vanguard


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/29 05:33:22


    Post by: Ancestral Hamster


    Beasts of War have posted pictures of Mantic's forthcoming Fire Elementals (both Greater and Lesser) as well as Vampire on Undead Dragon.

    http://www.beastsofwar.com/kings-of-war/exclusive-fiery-elementals-undead-dragons/


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/29 06:13:36


    Post by: NinthMusketeer


    I like those fire elementals. They aren't overdone in design like I've seen in some before.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/30 09:54:05


    Post by: Zywus


    The fire elementals looks really good I think


    Spoiler:



    Is there any difference to the dragon and the wyrm model-wise, apart from a headswap?



    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/30 17:50:34


    Post by: Llamahead


    Wings? But other than that no.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/09/30 18:28:07


    Post by: Zywus


     Llamahead wrote:
    Wings? But other than that no.

    The wings are optional to the wyrm, but it can have them as well.



    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/01 16:54:00


    Post by: Bolognesus


     Llamahead wrote:
    Wings? But other than that no.

    Huh, I could swear the head is different as well.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/01 17:05:07


    Post by: Nostromodamus


     Bolognesus wrote:
     Llamahead wrote:
    Wings? But other than that no.

    Huh, I could swear the head is different as well.


    Zywus said "apart from the headswap".

    Still looks fething terrible. I'll stick with my Bones undead dragons thanks.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/01 21:47:10


    Post by: Bolognesus


    ...Oops. Sorry
    Really though? IMO it's better than any bones dragon for it's niche (and I have a few I'm perfectly happy with already).
    I really like the much wyrm-ier concept, too, and I don't think the bones range has anything really like that available. Might even be the first Mantic purchase in a long time for me.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/02 09:16:49


    Post by: NTRabbit


    Different rider too


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/06 14:38:30


    Post by: DaveC


    I’ve spoken for many years about a skirmish game for Kings of War – to act as an easy entry point, and to start an army by the stealth route (before I knew it Deadzone had me a long way to a Warpath army as I kept adding members to my squad).



    But I wanted the skirmish game to be set within, alongside, and amongst the battles and wars of Mantica. I recently visited the battlefield of Waterloo – and enjoyed seeing the 3 or 4 battles that happened in the days running up the big bash! The attempts to split the enemy’s force, and interfere with their supply routes. Kings of War: Vanguard seeks to recreate just that. Your best lieutenant takes his trusted band of brothers, heavies and hard bitten warriors to a man (or dwarf) to forage deep behind enemy lines, and come back with their battle plans, their gunpowder or perhaps a princess or two!

    The game will feature scenarios that challenge your warband to achieve interesting tactical missions – and these can be played as both one-off games themselves or be the lead up to a big KoW game – and if you lose the battle to protect your gunpowder supplies then you might get less war machines in the big battle! The game will also come with a detailed warband experience and progression system so you can play a long-running campaign of games and watch your characters and Vanguard Company grow and evolve. Very exciting stuff!



    Oh, and all the models are going to be unique and fantastic sculpts – so as well as Vanguard you can use them as heroes or unit commanders in your KoW army too!

    We hope Vanguard will excite and delight our existing gamers – it’ll allow us to get new figures and units out for the existing armies, plus get all the lapsed generals dipping back into KoW. What’s more, it might also recruit a whole new batch of players to pick it up because it is a low figure count/quick to play skirmish game – and by doing that we’ll introduce a whole new group to the joys of KoW.

    Ronnie

    [Thumb - image.png]


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/06 14:43:20


    Post by: BobtheInquisitor


    Consider me interested.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/06 14:48:57


    Post by: Gallahad


    Very interested in those gribblies in the cover art. Is this going to be a Kickstarter? I hope not. A 1.5-2 year wait would surely kill the enthusiasm for the project.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/06 15:21:27


    Post by: Zywus


    Might that be Basileans vs Nightstalkers in the art?

    Some kind of 2-player starterset for Vanguard might be a good way to combine the release of new men at arms with some official Nightstalker models.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/06 15:37:21


    Post by: kodos


    Basilean VS Nightstalker with new Fantasy Terrain = ordered
    but no KS for me, I can wait for retail


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/06 16:44:59


    Post by: DaveC


    They're rolling em out today new Dungeon Saga Expansion Eye of the Abyss with single piece resin versions of the KoW summer campaign heroes.

    http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/dungeon-saga/expansions/product/dungeon-saga-eye-of-the-abyss.html

    £35 which is cheaper than the 5 individual heroes



    Like other expansions, there’s new heroes and villains for your games. The heroes of the Kings of War Summer Campaign reappear in single-piece resin miniatures that slot into their own detailed bases. They are Artkal, the Ghekkotah Clutch Warden, Eckter, the Placoderm Defender, Magnilde, The Varangur Demon hunter and Jarvis, the Ophida-Obsessed Mage. Acing off against your new heroes is Mau’Ti-Bu-Su, an Abyssal Temptress. There’s also 9 of the Plastic Abyssal Minions, which you’ll need for your adventures.

    The real treasure of this set is the Questbook, which includes a whopping 13 Scenarios. There’s not one, but two campaign to play though, in addition to a few more ‘mercurial’ missions that can be played as stand alone games. The first of these has 6 scenarios, following the events leading up the Edge of the Abyss Summer Campaign. The new heroes are summoned by the Green Lady to find an Abyssal Artifact that could grant the wicked ones unfathomable power. This perilous quest will lead them into the Abyss itself, where they will be forced to fight off score of demonic warriors just to survive.
    The second Campaign features the heroes of the original Dungeon Saga as then enter a haunted library to expel the poltergeist that lurks within. This is a tough campaign fought against the Undead, that will give new and existing players alike a strong challenge, especially when you face the poltergeist herself.

    The final three adventures are each stand alone pieces, which are a fun game to play though in an evening. You heroes are unceremoniously tasked with menial, albeit humorous duties, such as clearing a sewer of zombies, to dealing with a nasty infestation of over-sized rodents, to taking down a mighty and ancient Undead Wight. With the two campaigns there is enough gaming here to keep you occupied for a long time to come.

    That’s not all. The last section of the book include a detailed FAQ for the Dungeon Saga Core Rules, plus some Errata. This is a handy reference for anyone playing the game at home to refer to if any rules issues come up.



    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/07 09:19:02


    Post by: ulgurstasta


     Zywus wrote:
    Might that be Basileans vs Nightstalkers in the art?


    Oh definitely, one of the critters in the art seems to be based on this sketch found in the Night-stalker list

    Spoiler:




    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/07 15:10:13


    Post by: BobtheInquisitor


    I'm pretty sure I ate one of those guys tempura-style at Bubba Gump once.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 08:31:03


    Post by: DaveC


    Vanguard Q&A from Facebook

    Q: D8s? why?
    A: because they give a better range within the stat profile of the characters

    Q: will Vanguard use existing KoW characters and troop types or will it invent new ones?
    A: both

    Q: how do pick your forces? Do you use units from the (KoW) armies or will there be a whole list with stats?
    A: each warband will have a selection of models to choose from subject to restrictions on model types. Types include command/ support/ grunts.

    Q: what size is a standard game? How long is a game?
    A: 100 points. 60- 70 minutes

    Q: do warbands gain experience?
    A: yes rules are included for one off games but a campaign system and warband experience/progression is also included.

    Q: is the game on a grid. is specific terrain necessary?
    A: no grid, play area 3x3, can use normal terrain nothing specfic to Vanguard.

    Q: will there be stats for all existing KoW factions?
    A: some to begin more later. New warbands through retail.

    Q: will it integrate with Dungeon Saga?
    A: not at the moment

    Q: square bases? Is size important can I use round?
    A: yes (square bases) they define arcs.

    Q: are you planning to do a boxed game?
    A: there will be a retail starter set.

    Q: Twilight kin?
    A: likely integrated into the Nightstalkers.

    Q: will it use KoW stats?
    A: similar but not exactly the same

    Q: which factions are planned?
    A: 4 warbands with the alpha rules - Dwarves, Goblins, Undead and Abyssals

    Q: is a Kickstarter planned?
    A: good question keep looking you never know what you might find

    Q: what sort of turn activation?
    A: alternating activations. You can activate individual models but can spend power to activate groups/ special abilities/ clear fatigue.

    Q: modular fantasy houses, walls, towers in battlezone modular style?
    A: that sounds cool!


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 09:20:28


    Post by: Mymearan


    Square bases? That... is a pretty huge disadvantage for those who play other skirmish games (Frostgrave, Song of Blades and Heroes, AoS skirmish) and want to use those models. Then again, it makes it easy to use people's KoW minis, which is what they want I guess.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 14:23:58


    Post by: judgedoug


     DaveC wrote:


    Q: square bases? Is size important can I use round?
    A: yes (square bases) they define arcs.

    No 28-32mm skirmish game should be so granular as to require facing. Unless each turn is 1/4 of a second? Is it Phoenix Command? Or are we piloting Battlemechs?



    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 14:32:50


    Post by: Manchu


    Facing in a skirmish game ... wrong answer.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 14:37:12


    Post by: Nostromodamus


    People don't seem to have a problem with facing in Warmahordes.

    Does Infinity use facing?


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 14:44:20


    Post by: Alpharius


    It certainly does...

    I'm not seeing this as a deal breaking issue in a low model count skirmish scale game.

    Ramping up detail when model count gets ramped down is OK by me.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 14:59:16


    Post by: judgedoug


    WMH isn't a skirmish game, it's Advanced Squad Leader with a Steampunk overlay.

    and Infinity _IS_ Phoenix Command.

    Seriously had high hopes for this but it seems like nothing will ever top SBG for skirmish.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Manchu wrote:
    Facing in a skirmish game ... wrong answer.


    It's even more medged than True Line Of Sight. Not only are our models literal stone statues, but they move as them too! Please roll your Neck Check to see if you can rotate your head!


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 15:02:19


    Post by: Clanan


    I've never played a Mantic game but this definitely looks interesting. Those monstery minis look sweet and it will include progression!


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 15:08:06


    Post by: Manchu


    Infinity is going for high granularity. But is that what Mantic really wants out of their cartoon fantasy world?


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 15:19:56


    Post by: Alpharius


    Who knows? Maybe?

    But I don't suspect it will be anything near what Infinity is though - that game has way too much going on these days, with tons of 'just a bit different' rules too.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 15:23:56


    Post by: highlord tamburlaine


    So if facing is an issue that necessitates the use of square bases, wouldn't it be just as easy to mark off their arcs on a round base?

    It's what most of Privateer's players already do...

    I'm guessing their coyness about whether this is a kickstarter means it probably is.

    I hope they give us a rules overview prior to launch.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 15:24:39


    Post by: Manchu


    I get the sense that Infinity is purposefully complicated, which sort of works for that genre. Now whether it is too complicated, that's well beyond my knowledge as someone who has never played it much less being familiar with the current rules. But it's hard to imagine what facing would add to a fantasy skirmish, besides awkward gameyness.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 15:26:31


    Post by: Yodhrin


     DaveC wrote:

    Q: modular fantasy houses, walls, towers in battlezone modular style?
    A: that sounds cool!


    Hnng, I hate non-answers like this, especially since this would be the only thing of interest for me.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 15:45:31


    Post by: Alpharius


     Yodhrin wrote:
     DaveC wrote:

    Q: modular fantasy houses, walls, towers in battlezone modular style?
    A: that sounds cool!


    Hnng, I hate non-answers like this, especially since this would be the only thing of interest for me.


    Same here!

    I mean, yes, it does sound cool, but maybe...answer the question?

    This one was annoying too:

    Q: is a Kickstarter planned?
    A: good question keep looking you never know what you might find


    Again, just answer the question...



    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 15:51:52


    Post by: Manchu


    Q: Is being coy wearing a bit thin?
    A: You tell me.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 15:55:38


    Post by: Nostromodamus


    Q. Will Mantic get any of my money?
    A. We'll have to wait and see, won't we?


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 16:13:38


    Post by: NTRabbit


    There's nothing stopping anyone with round bases from standing them on a 30 cent square bit of MDF. Plenty of people already do that on a larger scale with full sized KoW units.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 16:49:30


    Post by: Illumini


    Facing can be a good mechanic, adding options for backstab, not triggering overwatch and stuff like that. It is fully possible to do that with round bases however, like warmachine does. If facings are so modular that you have flanks as well, which it sounds like, it might be a bit much? Round bases looks so much better for skirmish games.

    Modular fantasy terrain would be amazing!

    The basilian vs night stalker art is really cool, the night stalkers look suitably creepy.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 18:01:08


    Post by: Prestor Jon


    I think it's the case of a poor response more so than using square bases in a skirmish game is an inherently bad idea. It would have been much better if Mantic had just said that they want the minis that people use in Vanguard to be fully compatible with KoW and Dungeon Saga and vice versa and with that in mind Vanguard minis will come with square bases. The functionality of the ruleset shouldn't be dependent on base shape then the ruleset is flawed. I'd be very surprised if the rules are written in such a way as to make using minis on round bases game breaking.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 18:05:34


    Post by: Gallahad


    I don't mind facing since it gives a decent mechanic for whether a unit is surprised by an attack (their attention/focus is else where, etc.).


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 18:06:37


    Post by: judgedoug


    Prestor Jon wrote:
    The functionality of the ruleset shouldn't be dependent on base shape then the ruleset is flawed. I'd be very surprised if the rules are written in such a way as to make using minis on round bases game breaking.


    Nah, I mean, WMH requires round bases - but that's the nature of the game. It doesn't require miniatures, just 2d discs, because the game is designed as a highly complex synergy-reliant chess game. So WMH works perfectly for what it's attempting to do.

    If Vanguard requires square bases because of some super granular awful front/flank/rear system, then, that's it's design aim. Not one that I agree with nor would play. Gimme SBG control zones.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Gallahad wrote:
    I don't mind facing since it gives a decent mechanic for whether a unit is surprised by an attack (their attention/focus is else where, etc.).


    I disagree 100%. Facing in a skirmish game is an example of lazy (bad) rules design. "Awareness" can easily be a roll or numerical comparison so that a variety of models can have various awareness "stats" (for lack of a better term), and you are not locked into a front/flank/rear mechanic.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 18:23:42


    Post by: Alpharius


    Facing vs. an 'awareness dice roll'?

    I'll take facing over yet another dice roll, especially in a skirmish game.

    But maybe I'm just partially diced out from the bucket-o-dice game that 40K 8th is!


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 18:54:22


    Post by: Knight


    There are two or three armies I'd like to get. Hopefully they'll do KS.



    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 20:44:15


    Post by: Manchu


    If the concern is wanting to leverage skill rather than chance, awareness should be determined by movement because movement is one of the definitive elements of miniatures gaming. To surprise a model, move from full cover up to it without having been seen by it previously. Does not require ugly, fiddly facing rules.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 20:45:14


    Post by: .Mikes.


    I'm definitely interested. Might skip a KS and wait for retail,depending on timing. Also, Confrontation called, it says square bases are fine.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 20:46:18


    Post by: Manchu


     .Mikes. wrote:
    Also, Confrontation called
    from beyond the grave?


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 21:08:59


    Post by: Gallahad


     Manchu wrote:
    If the concern is wanting to leverage skill rather than chance, awareness should be determined by movement because movement is one of the definitive elements of miniatures gaming. To surprise a model, move from full cover up to it without having been seen by it previously. Does not require ugly, fiddly facing rules.


    You just have to track which models every model has and hasn't seen (and when) which is much less fiddly than facing???

    Seriously, models having facing isn't that fiddly.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 21:16:24


    Post by: Manchu


    Nah, it's no problem. If A starts his turn with zero LOS to B then A can get the drop on B. Depending on the design, you'd probably break LOS, when out of LOS use an action to gain hidden status, then be able to do a surprise attack.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 21:37:26


    Post by: lord_blackfang


     Manchu wrote:
    Does not require ugly, fiddly facing rules.


    I don't know why you've decided they are so. Ever played Warmachine?


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 21:45:07


    Post by: Manchu


    Facing is fiddly because a man-sized figure at 1/48 or less represents a body in dynamic motion, acting and reacting in a continuous way. As judgedoug mentioned above, a figure oriented in a certain direction is no more facing only in that direction than a kneeling figure is always kneeling. Facing only makes sense when the time represented by an activation is extremely limited; that works thematically in high tech environments where combatants have a ton of accurate info about the battlefield and hyper precise ranged weaponry.

    Actually one of the reasons I don't like WMH is it strikes me as way, way on the gamey end of the spectrum where the point is for the players to determine who has greater mastery of the rules. So I get why such a fiddly game would incorporate fiddly concepts like facing; more moving pieces, more complexity, more mastery required.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 22:37:10


    Post by: .Mikes.


     Manchu wrote:
     .Mikes. wrote:
    Also, Confrontation called
    from beyond the grave?


    That it went in after it changed to round bases.

    Actually no, few games have as much of a devoted player base almost ten years after it went out of production. A testament to its rules.

    Hanging up on base shapes is bloody absurd, and smells of looking for something - anything - to complain about. But then again I know where I am right now so it's par of the course.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 22:44:36


    Post by: Manchu


     .Mikes. wrote:
    Hanging up on base shapes is bloody absurd,
    Do you also think rules calling for a certain base shape is bloody absurd.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 23:18:40


    Post by: lord_blackfang


    Actually upon my request we tested having a 1" melee range as per Warmachine, which would make base shapes largely irrelevant. It was way more... fiddly... than aligning square bases.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 23:33:44


    Post by: .Mikes.


     Manchu wrote:
     .Mikes. wrote:
    Hanging up on base shapes is bloody absurd,
    Do you also think rules calling for a certain base shape is bloody absurd.


    I take it you've never played a table top game before then.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 23:50:21


    Post by: Manchu


    Do you have an answer?


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/10 23:54:57


    Post by: .Mikes.


    Yes, you're being ridiculous. Pick up any rules and they'll almost always have specifics on base shapes.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/11 00:06:37


    Post by: Manchu


    Yes, I know. My question was, do you think it is bloody absurd that rules specify something like that?


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/11 00:07:46


    Post by: Azazelx


     .Mikes. wrote:
     Manchu wrote:
     .Mikes. wrote:
    Also, Confrontation called
    from beyond the grave?


    That it went in after it changed to round bases.

    Actually no, few games have as much of a devoted player base almost ten years after it went out of production. A testament to its rules.

    Hanging up on base shapes is bloody absurd, and smells of looking for something - anything - to complain about. But then again I know where I am right now so it's par of the course.


    I personally don't like square bases, but I can see why the choice was made from a couple of perspectives:

    1) Model/basing compatibility with KoW.
    2) It can still work quite decently in games. I've never played WMH, but I did play quite a lot of one of the games that I would say has a much more dedicated fanbase than Confrontation 10+ years after it went OOP: Necromunda (& 40k2e). Does SW:A still have the Necromunda fire arcs?

    In closing: I don't like square bases, but that's a personal aesthetic preference. Fire arcs/facings can work quite reasonably and decently in a miniatures game. It won't be for everyone, but then, nothing is for everyone. I'm quote happy to play SBG and/or AoS but there's a lot of people that aren't (more than a lot for AoS!!)







    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/11 00:12:11


    Post by: Manchu


    My KoW stuff (WIP) is all single based but this is hardly standard, as it was with WHFB. Multi basing is often touted as a feature of KoW. Cross compatibility wity KoW will be limited accordingly.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Does SW:A still have the Necromunda fire arcs?
    IIRC only in overwatch.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/11 00:18:45


    Post by: .Mikes.


     Azazelx wrote:

    In closing: I don't like square bases, but that's a personal aesthetic preference. Fire arcs/facings can work quite reasonably and decently in a miniatures game. It won't be for everyone, but then, nothing is for everyone. I'm quote happy to play SBG and/or AoS but there's a lot of people that aren't (more than a lot for AoS!!)


    This, basically. Some people are mixing up personal preferences with what can work in a game.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/11 00:21:18


    Post by: Manchu


    Not really. What can work in a game really depends on a lot of factors. And whether a game is hypothetically likable has little to do with whether it is well designed.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/11 01:38:45


    Post by: Azazelx


     Manchu wrote:
    My KoW stuff (WIP) is all single based but this is hardly standard, as it was with WHFB. Multi basing is often touted as a feature of KoW. Cross compatibility wity KoW will be limited accordingly.


    My Fantasy stuff is almost all on round bases, With some exceptions being 40mm+ figures like Ogres, large monsters, etc stuff on square bases. My infantry-sized models are all round-based, and when used as KoW units are blu-taced down to unit trays for KoW duty and come off them for SBG, AoS, SAGA or whatever else I use them for.

    Spoiler:


    But then what I choose to do isn't the point. It's Mantic going the "closed ecosystem" model that GW uses, and fair enough if they choose to do that for their own consistency.
    If I choose to play their skirmish game, I'll continue with round bases myself and just mark the bases as subtly as possible for arcs or facing, etc - just as I did for 40k2e, Necromunda, etc.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Does SW:A still have the Necromunda fire arcs?
    IIRC only in overwatch.


    Fair enough. I guess it's still (sorta) a thing there then. Not really a game-breaker.


     .Mikes. wrote:

    This, basically. Some people are mixing up personal preferences with what can work in a game.


    Nod.

    I think facing can work well as a mechanic. Sneaking up from behind being the most obvious one, but I've also played plenty enough vidya games that involve stealth sections, sentries with LoS-cones and such to know that it can work to make things like scenarios particularly interesting. It depends on the rest of the ruleset really and how well something like that integrates in. After all, even with square bases it would be easy enough to write a ruleset without model facing making any difference at all, so it depends on how it's used in this one.

    It's not like the single issue of fire arcs made 40k2e or Necromunda, etc bad games, and while 40k 2e still has its devotees, Necromunda is one of the single most beloved rulesets ever, even to this day, long after being discontinued.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/11 02:16:48


    Post by: Voss


     judgedoug wrote:
    Prestor Jon wrote:
    The functionality of the ruleset shouldn't be dependent on base shape then the ruleset is flawed. I'd be very surprised if the rules are written in such a way as to make using minis on round bases game breaking.


    Nah, I mean, WMH requires round bases - but that's the nature of the game. It doesn't require miniatures, just 2d discs, because the game is designed as a highly complex synergy-reliant chess game. So WMH works perfectly for what it's attempting to do.

    If Vanguard requires square bases because of some super granular awful front/flank/rear system, then, that's it's design aim. Not one that I agree with nor would play. Gimme SBG control zones.

    Arguable, especially if you continue with those ideas, WMH clearly doesn't work perfectly at all. One of the biggest obstructions to that is actually the models and the way they overhang bases and interfere with positioning. That ruleset would actually be BETTER as a 2d disc game.
    But actually round bases aren't required. And given the way WMH LOS works, squares work better than players being forced to approximate 180 degrees on a circle (though they could have, and should have, produced notched bases from day one if facing was so important).


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/11 03:50:23


    Post by: Eilif


    Color me interested in Vanguard. More for the rules than anything. I've really enjoyed playing KoW so if Mantic keeps on with the same concise, fun and fast philosophy of rules they certainly have my attention with these new rules.

    Not fussed about the miniatues. Honestly, I've never been won over by any of the factions in Mantica and I essentialy viewed KoW as the chance to build the old school chaos army I always wanted for a game I actually wanted to play.

    The Square bases thing isn't ideal, but at the same time it isn't the end of the world either for round bases. It's easy enough to make a facing template that -as long as you mark the center front of the round base- will clarify an arc. As it happens, my Chaos KoW army is all on squares and rectangles so that's not a hurdle.

    So i'll likely buy the rules, and play some games but even if they're a flop or like Warpath prove hard to find opponents for, it's no big worry. I've already got SBH, Frostgrave and -for slightly larger skirmishes- Dragon Rampant so there's no shortage of ways to get my hordes on the table with rules I like.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/11 04:31:48


    Post by: MangoMadness


    I dont mind square bases, there are many games out there that use round bases on a grid, what is the difference?

    its basically implementing a grid system based on the reference point of the individual bases.

    Does the model have a shield in the left arm? then maybe the shield only protects from front and left side attacks.

    Who knows what sort of detail they are going to implement?

    So much drama over a square base with no knowledge of what it actually means to gameplay



    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/11 05:14:53


    Post by: DrNo172000


    I use to be pretty hung up on the "stone statue" argument too. However, I have come to realize that even the arguments for VLOS have less to do with that and more to do with consistency, after all there is no consistency in LOS with TLOS because it's entirely dependent on a factor that actually exist outside of the rule set, that is how the model is modelled.

    So when we talk about whether or not facing is a good or bad design decision I think the stone statue argument is a bit thin. To me it really comes down to what is the rules trying to facilitate. Is it trying to make the player behave in a certain way, that's something you actually need to heavily consider when designing a game. In Warmachine/Hordes I would argue that facing is part of the overall desire to make positioning supreme in Warmachine/Hordes. The game is designed to make you think very carefully about where you place your models, this has nothing to do with realism and how fast a person can turn in real life. I would say that Warmachine/Hordes is a great example of facing implemented into an overall design very well. I can not think of something that WMH could implement that would be smoother and still produce the same results they are after. There might be one I just can't personally thank of one. I am of course only a student, not a professional designer.

    If instead you want to instead capture the feeling of one on one martial combat with fist, swords or whatever than I would argue it's not so good. Now while facing in one on one combat is supremely important I think there is a smoother way to implement that. Think of two highly skilled boxers, facing is incredibly important to present a proper defense, throw a proper punch, etc. So how could I facilitate this without implementing facing rules? Well let's think back to boxing, a skilled boxer is able to create angles to improve his own offense by circumventing his opponents defense and make himself harder to hit. In a game I could easily implement this through asymmetrical chance. If Fighter A is a better fighter than Fighter B, than Fighter A should have a higher chance of landing a telling blow. Here we are abstracting real world skill into a system, that way you the player don't have to be a expert fighter because your little character on the table is.

    Well you might ask what about 2 v 1 or 3 v 1, etc. Well that is easy to implement, you can do this through a modifier system no problem. If Fighter A suddenly has to worry about more opponents then his chances of landing a telling blow decrease until they decrease to a point where he is simply overwhelmed. Here we have in my opinion much a smoother system for abstracting the importance of facing in martial combat.

    You will notice the two above examples are trying to produce two very different results, they start from two very different problem statements. The first one, how can I make a game about positioning? The second one, how can I make a game that captures the feeling of single combat? One is trying to have a player behave in a certain way, the other is trying to make the player feel a certain way.

    I hope this articulates the difference, I apologize if I am not clear as I am only a student at school trying to disseminate my course work.

    In terms of Vanguard I think it is too early to tell if it is a bad decision or a good one.

    Thoughts? Disagreements? I welcome them.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/11 14:00:07


    Post by: ulgurstasta


    As someone who was very hyped about this, Square bases aren't an issue, but I'm sceptical of facings in a skirmish game.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/11 15:23:21


    Post by: Polonius


     ulgurstasta wrote:
    As someone who was very hyped about this, Square bases aren't an issue, but I'm sceptical of facings in a skirmish game.


    I feel the opposite, actually

    In my mind, facings don't determine awareness so much as attention/focus. It's unlikely that a warrior in a skirmish will be unaware of somebody behind him, but he will be focusing more on what is in front of him. Giving a model some sort of backstab bonus rewards tactical movement, and serves a proxy for suppression.

    But IMO there's no reason that can't be done on round bases, ala warmachine.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/11 15:40:32


    Post by: DarkBlack


     ulgurstasta wrote:
    As someone who was very hyped about this, Square bases aren't an issue, but I'm sceptical of facings in a skirmish game.


    Um... Infinity?


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/11 16:03:13


    Post by: Modock


    I like facing rule in Infinity. I think it works great there. Nothing to worry about it.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/11 19:45:15


    Post by: Sarouan


    Facing isn't an issue in a skirmish game. It's just a bit old school, but it brings some tactical choices for sure.

    Still, I don't like this project. I smell named characters, here...if it's really about making your own warband and customize it/allow it to gain experience as battles go on, and not forcing you to have named characters who keep fighting against their evil clones because it's "easier to balance", then maybe it's worth it. Otherwise, why going into another skirmish game ? The market is already crowded with those.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/11 21:43:36


    Post by: AegisGrimm


    Square bases are a really good way to determine the absolute rear of any model, but I'm not sure they are really that big a deal. I have played many, many rulesets, both with and without facings, and they don't really complicate the game as much as some people are claiming, when they are governed by anything qualifying as good game design.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/11 23:48:17


    Post by: bbb


    As long as it is fun with a low barrier for entry, then I'm interested.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/12 04:22:35


    Post by: Micky


    I'm like 90% sure that the shape of bases won't matter a great deal in the rules (so long as "front" and "back" are marked), and its more just that models will be sold with square bases for KoW compatibility.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/12 09:47:21


    Post by: mattjgilbert


    Square bases are there for compatibility with KoW and DS as mentioned. Using them simply determines the rear arc (like in DS) for things like backstab abilities and minor bonuses for being shot or attacked in the rear (if you get surrounded for example). You could use a round base and mark the rear if you really needed to.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/12 23:49:11


    Post by: JoshInJapan


    Base shape and size means nothing to me. I have hundreds (if not thousands) of models on 20mm square, 25mm square, and 25mm round, and they work just fine in any game I play.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/13 22:51:43


    Post by: TheAuldGrump


     Manchu wrote:
     .Mikes. wrote:
    Hanging up on base shapes is bloody absurd,
    Do you also think rules calling for a certain base shape is bloody absurd.
    Given that they intend the miniatures to also be used in Kings of War?

    No.

    Not at all.

    Do I think that folks want to insist that it use a different shaped base than the mass combat game that the miniatures are supposed to be compatible are being bloody absurd?

    Yep!

    Do I think that most people really won't care about the shape and size of the base?

    Yep!

    Do I think that they still need to nail down the size and shape of the base to avoid stupid rules arguments, because of that guy?

    Yep!

    Am I face palming at myself because I am even getting into this discussion?

    Oh, yeah....

    The Auld Grump


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/14 17:07:25


    Post by: kodos


    +1!


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/16 14:13:34


    Post by: DaveC


    AN INTRODUCTION TO KINGS OF WAR: VANGUARD

    Kings of War: Vanguard will be launching on Kickstater soon. Throughout this week, we’ll be exploring the game in more detail and giving you a taste of the rules. In today’s blog, we’re looking at the background behind the game.



    Mantica is a world ravaged by war, a constant fight for land and resources, or prestige and power. The borders of countries wax and wane like the phases of the moon. The sound of mighty armies marching to war echoes throughout the land.

    But wars can be won before the first arrows have been fired, or sword has smashed against sword. Small warbands of hardened warriors clash in desperate struggles to gain the tactical advantage before the battle lines are drawn. These are the bloody skirmishes before the war, where warriors become legends.

    That’s the ‘fluffy’ introduction to Vanguard, however, it took us a while to come up with that concept! A Kings of War skirmish game is something that people have been asking for and talking about for a while. The problem was, we didn’t just want to set it in an abandoned city (or similar), as that’s something that’s been covered in numerous other games.

    Instead we wanted something that would compliment our existing Kings of War range and also provide a starting point for those looking to start their own Kings of War army. So during a long drive to Belgium last year for Crisis, we began discussing an idea centred round the scouting parties sent out ahead of the main force.

    We particularly liked this idea as they’re likely to be some of the most skilled warriors, along with a few supporting troops, rather than the more typical rank and flank. As a result, the warband would contain a grizzled sergeant or veteran captain, alongside specialists like magic users and saboteurs. Their mission would be to scout ahead of the main force in order to caption tactical locations, disrupt supply lines or even take prisoners, etc.

    The more we discussed the idea of the scouting parties, the more obvious it became that we could generate some fun scenarios based around this core concept, e.g. objectives might be beacons that need to be lit or you might need to assassinate a key enemy ahead of the main battle. We’re also still thinking of potential scenarios, so if you’ve got some ideas let us know in the comments below!

    Kings of War Vanguard

    LINKS TO KINGS OF WAR

    It was also clear how these battles could feed into larger games of Kings of War too. So if you play a game of Vanguard in which the objective is to light beacons to show the way, in Kings of War you’ll be able to deploy your troops in a more advantageous position. Likewise, the scenarios can go the other way too, so you start with a big battle and then play a game of Vanguard in which you loot the corpses. Of course, Vanguard can be played independently of Kings of War and there will be a full campaign mode that we’ll detail later this week.

    Another beauty of setting the game around the scouting parties is it gives a reason for all armies to get involved! It isn’t just a Basilean city that some forces would want to ransack. Instead, as mentioned earlier, Mantica is a little like medieval Europe with battles happening almost constantly. This means there’s always going to be a reason to send out those warbands for a bloody good scrap!

    What’s more, we were conscious that a lot of people have multi-based their armies for KoW so the warbands idea is perfect because it focuses on individuals. These can then become the heroes/unit champions in your Kings of War armies too and, because the poses/sculpts will be extremely dynamic, they’ll add plenty of character to your army. There will be a small number of troops used in Vanguard, however these will be optional.

    On that note, it’s worth mentioning that Vanguard will use square bases. Again, we wanted to make sure that Vanguard miniatures could easily crossover into Kings of War or even Dungeon Saga, so it made sense to have them on the same bases. It also makes it much easier for rules such as attacking miniatures from behind, as there’s a clear facing with a square base.

    In the next blog, we’ll be taking a closer look at the Vanguard star cards and what they mean for your character.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/16 15:13:18


    Post by: Knight


    Star cards?


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/16 15:26:37


    Post by: mattjgilbert


    Should be stat cards


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/16 15:35:43


    Post by: Cryptek of Awesome


     mattjgilbert wrote:
    Should be stat cards


    No, Star cards IS correct. Units will come with star shaped cards - the points of the star will determine facing like a compass - all the way from Front-front-side to Side-rear-rear.
    Star cards will be required to play the game.
    ...
    ...


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/16 21:53:53


    Post by: lord_blackfang


    Clearly a ripoff of Firestorm Armada 1st edition's S.T.A.R. event deck.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/16 22:04:38


    Post by: DaveC


    blog post has been edited to correct the star/stat typos but they still missed Kickstater on the first line!

    https://manticblog.com/2017/10/16/introduction-kings-war-vanguard/

    Edit: Matts been sneaking around fixing things again


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/17 02:00:10


    Post by: RiTides


    Hehe, nice to know they read the thread though


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/17 08:20:53


    Post by: jtrowell


    Hi Matt, nice to see that you are involved in Vanguard, seeing the very good job that you did with KoW back then.

    Out of curiosity, are you in charge or at least an official member of the design team or are you just a beta tester or something similar ?


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/17 08:44:04


    Post by: Thebiggesthat


    Another Kickstarter from the company that said 'no more' after Dungeon Saga.

    Absolutely shameless


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/17 11:35:27


    Post by: mattjgilbert


    jtrowell wrote:
    Hi Matt, nice to see that you are involved in Vanguard, seeing the very good job that you did with KoW back then.

    Out of curiosity, are you in charge or at least an official member of the design team or are you just a beta tester or something similar ?


    I wrote Vanguard


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/17 11:51:26


    Post by: Osbad


    Vanguard Skirmish sounds interesting so far:

    I like "generic" fantasy (i.e. elves, wizards, goblins etc.)
    I like Kings of War, and Mantic's rules writing so far
    I like scenarios
    I like low-model-count games
    I like that they have narrowed the game conceit down to a specific niche - i.e. scouting parties - rather than just being a "random marauding warband" thing which is a little bit vanilla and sort of done to death nowadays

    The only thing I am not so keen about is the concept of "gaining experience" or "linked campaigns". It's just not something that interests me. I tend to get bored playing the same game too many times on the trot and like to mix it up. Also, I don't have a huge pool of opponents, so playing campaigns against the same 1 or 2 opponents tends to get pretty old pretty fast.

    It always mystifies me why whenever a new skirmish game comes along someone wants to develop a campaign system for it, when in reality getting a campaign off the ground successfully is a pretty rare event. It *can* happen, I don't deny, but mostly it has been my experience that they tend to fizzle and die out long before completion for all sorts of reasons. I suspect many gamers are a little unrealistic in their expectations, maybe? I dunno.

    Anyhoo, as long as the game is strong enough to stand up to being fun for one-off games without having to tie it into some sort of campaign system to give it any depth, I will be happy. I think Mantic in general, and certainly Matt specifically, are experienced and competent enough to do that, so colour me very interested!


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/17 12:22:49


    Post by: Psychopomp


    So far, I'm getting the same vibe as the old Warhammer Skirmsih from WHFB 6e, but with a campaign system and more support than "Here's a pamphlet and we're letting the US web team go nuts until they get bored in a month."

    Those are some crucial differences there. I'm highly interested, and hope my finances allow me to jump in on the Kickstarter. Do we know when the KS will be? Is the plan still to use the KS for Vanguard to fund some more plastic troops sprues for KoW as well as models for Vanguard?


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/17 12:31:12


    Post by: ulgurstasta


     Psychopomp wrote:
    Do we know when the KS will be?


    I think the word is that it will launch at the end of the month


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/17 13:48:29


    Post by: DaveC


    Kings of War: Vanguard will be launching on Kickstarter soon. Throughout this week, we’ll be exploring the game in more detail and giving you a taste of the rules. In today’s blog, we’re looking at an example of a character card.

    A little like The Walking Dead: All Out War, Vanguard will feature character cards that include all the stats you’ll need to play. Each of the heroes, special characters and warriors will come with their own cards, giving players a great reference during the game. When you’re playing a campaign, we’ll also be making a roster sheet, so you can track upgrades/new abilities/xp.

    In today’s blog, we’re going to breakdown an example card to explain all the various elements, which will also give you a brief insight into some of the key mechanics of Vanguard. So, without further ado, let’s crack on…



    1. NAME – if they’re a named character, this will be their name, e.g. Grekle Cacklemaster, or if they’re a standard miniature it’ll be the name of the unit.

    2. RACE/TYPE – first up you can see what Race the model is. The model’s Race is also a keyword that may interact with other rules, e.g. a unit could receive a bonus when attacking a Race they particularly despise. Next, models will be one (or more) of the following Types: Grunt, Warrior, Support, Command, Spellcaster, and Large. Type is important when building a Warband and, once again, the Type is a keyword that may interact with other rules.

    3. POINTS – this is how many points it costs to add the model to your warband.

    4. STATS – this is where you can find all the stats for the model.

    Speed (SP) - This value shows the distance the model can move in inches.

    Ranged (Ra) - This is the target number the model needs to roll to hit a target when using a Ranged attack, typically as part of a Shoot or Cast action.

    Melee (Me) - This is the target number the model needs to roll to hit an opponent when making a Melee attack.

    Armour (Ar) - This is the target number a model needs to roll to avoid taking damage and suffering wounds.

    Nerve (Ne) - This is the target number for any Nerve tests the model needs to take. This will come into play if the Warband is broken or if something unnerving happens.

    Wounds (Wn) - This shows the number of wounds the model can suffer before it is removed from play as a casualty. The larger the number, the more resilient (or stupid!) the model is.

    Height (H) - The height of a model affects how it interacts with other models and terrain for line of sight and visibility of targets.

    5. SPECIAL RULES – here you can see any special rules the model has. Some of these will be similar to those seen in Kings of War, while others will be completely new.

    6. POWER DICE – this indicates how many Power Dice the model generates. The Power Dice work a little like the Command Dice in Deadzone and we’ll have a closer look at Power Dice in a future blog.

    7. RANGED & MELEE – this shows how many D8s the model rolls during combat. That’s right, we’ll be using D8s for Vanguard, rather than standard D6s. Even better we’ve got exploding D8s during combat to help create some crazy cinematic moments.

    8. EQUIPMENT – equipment will play a large part in Vanguard, as warbands uncover and buy new items during a campaign. Some models will come equipped with weapons/items as standard and they’ll be listed here.

    9. SPELLS – spellcasters will have their spells listed here. We’ll be expanding the number of spells available, compared to Kings of War. Also, you may notice it says (short) after the spell name. Just like Deadzone, models will be able to perform two short actions or one long action. Some spells will be long actions, while others will be short. What’s more you’ll be able to boost spells to make them more powerful. As spellcasters gain experience in a campaign, they will also get the chance to learn new spells from an advanced spellbook or faction-specific magic.

    10. SPECIAL ABILITIES and RULES – if the model has any special abilities they’ll be listed here. Special Abilities use the Power Dice mentioned earlier, so we’ll go into specifics in a future blog.

    So, what do you reckon? The card breakdown has given you a little tease of the rules so far and tomorrow we’ll jump into the topic of Power Dice and how they work in Vanguard.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/18 09:31:42


    Post by: jtrowell


     mattjgilbert wrote:
    jtrowell wrote:
    Hi Matt, nice to see that you are involved in Vanguard, seeing the very good job that you did with KoW back then.

    Out of curiosity, are you in charge or at least an official member of the design team or are you just a beta tester or something similar ?


    I wrote Vanguard



    That's a very good new, I was already looking forward to the kickstarter, but now I am really pumped up for it.

    About the campaign system, I would really like to see the same base idea from Deadzone of strike team/force.

    For those that don't know, in Deadzone you have your pool of units/models that can gain experience, but for each mission you can only take X points from this global pool, with experienced soldiers being better but also worth additionnal points in addition to their base profile.

    This mean that in theory, a veteran team won't be able to crush a newbie, it will just have more option when preparing for the mission.
    And it also give an advantage to use rookie sodiers : they are cheaper in points so you can take more of them.

    This also reduce the pain for having one solider killed, as you should still have more than enough units in reserve to build an effective force.

    Of course, there is the problem of the implementation, if some upgrades are much more powerful than others and all give the same increase in points, you will still see problems on the long term.

    Maybe the optimal would be having each unit (or at least category of unit) with its own upgrade table tailored (and pointed) for it, after all something like a skill giving for example a reroll to melee attack rolls should be worth much more to a big monster with a lots of attacks dice (and something like Crushing Strength to make passing the armor more likely) than to a normal solider with only one or two.normal strength attack dice.

    One thing that I really hope is that we will have some times after the kickstarter and before the final game ship to see and test the campaign system, for Deadzone while the basic idea was there from the start or not long after I believe, it was not as tested as it should have been from my point of view.





    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/18 09:44:09


    Post by: DaveC


    Vanguard will be launching on Kickstarter soon. Throughout this week, we’ll be exploring the game in more detail and giving you a taste of the rules. In today’s blog, we’re introducing the Power Dice.



    When it came to writing the rules for Vanguard we knew that we wanted to bring over some elements from the excellent Deadzone 2.0… without making it a complete clone. With that in mind, one of our favourite aspects from Deadzone is the concept of Command Dice.

    Just in case you’ve never played Deadzone before, Command Dice are six-sided dice you roll before each round. Each face has a symbol on, which represents a special move you can pull off during the game, e.g. moving an extra character, adding an extra dice to combat rolls, etc. The reason we like the Command Dice is that they represent the chaos of battle. Sometimes orders simply don’t get through properly so no one is clear what they should be doing but then the next minute your commander can be rallying the troops with their inspirational leadership.



    Initially we were actually using the same Command Dice in Vanguard but the results were mixed. The problem is that although we could give different warband leaders different amounts of dice, ultimately you would occasionally roll a result that was completely useless in the game.

    Another issue is that special abilities are tied to the use of Power Dice, so if you rolled the wrong result at the start of the turn, you might not be able to use your ability. Finally, it meant we were restricted on the cost of special abilities because you couldn’t have more powerful ones that required two or more command icons to be ‘spent’ in order to use them.

    YOU’VE GOT THE POWER

    Somewhat ironically, the answer was almost staring us in the face. The Walking Dead: All Out War comes with three differently coloured dice that are used for combat (red – weakest, white – slightly better and blue –best). These dice come with differing amounts of stars on (up to a maximum of three) to represent the amount of successes rolled.



    During one of our playtest sessions we started to use the Walking Dead dice and they were much better than the original Deadzone dice. But why?

    Leaders/support characters actually generate the power dice during the course of the game, so having three different colours gives us more options for having powerful characters that generate one blue dice, compared to weaker characters that only generate one red dice, for example
    Different abilities can now cost more than one power to use, as you’ll potentially be rolling a lot more successes
    During a campaign characters can level up their dice from red to white and then blue or gain more dice to roll
    You’ll always be able to use your power and should never have a ‘wasted’ result that you can’t spend during your turn
    POWER PLAYER

    So, now that you understand how we came up with the concept of Power Dice, how will you spend them during the game?

    Extra model activation – Vanguard has alternating activations but you can spend power to activate an extra model
    Extra dice – you can add an extra dice to Shoot, Cast, Armour Save or Melee rolls
    Forcing/clearing Fatigue – this is something we’ll be covering in the blog tomorrow…
    Group actions – oooh, another tease for a mechanic that we’ll be covering in a future blog
    Use special abilities – power is required to use a model’s special ability or the wider Warband special ability. The amount of power required is shown in brackets after the ability, e.g. Cackle! (1)
    The Power Dice are an integral part of Vanguard that really help to create those cinematic and exciting moments you expect to see in a skirmish game. What do you reckon? Are you feeling the power?

    [Thumb - image.jpeg]


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 0048/10/19 10:00:09


    Post by: DaveC


    Vanguard will be launching on Kickstarter soon. Throughout this week, we’ll be exploring the game in more detail and giving you a taste of the rules. In today’s blog, we’re explaining how Fatigue works.



    By now we hope you’re getting a good idea of how Vanguard will play, what with the cards, power dice and the general theme. The overall aim was to create a fast, brutal and action-packed skirmish game with room for campaign play and links to larger games of Kings of War. Today we’ll focus on that fast and action-packed element of the rules!

    From the start of development on Vanguard we liked the idea of having some kind of ‘fatigue’ mechanic. In other words, we wanted to create a rule where characters could push themselves a little more in order to perform one last action before they collapse in a heap due to exhaustion.

    Initially we had a concept for each model to be given command points and each unit would have a limit to the amount of command points they could be given. If you went over this amount, then the character would become fatigued and you could only give them one command in the next turn. However, it quickly became clear that command points were a little fiddly and didn’t bring much to the game.

    After dropping the command points, we looked at the Deadzone mechanic of short and long actions. Each model can be given two short actions or one long action. This was a much simpler way to handle activations and ensures you don’t require lots of tokens to indicate the number of command points a unit has been given. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!

    Kings of War Vanguard

    INTRIGUED ABOUT FATIGUE?

    It also made the fatigue system much easier to handle because now characters could be given an extra short action after they’ve performed their two short actions or one long action. If you choose to perform the extra short action, it will then fatigue the model and during the next turn you can only perform a short action.

    As a result there’s a fantastic sense of risk versus reward because you can really push your characters to the limit (often in the hope that you’ll capture that objective or take out a key enemy) but next turn you could be hampered. Thankfully you can clear fatigue at the end of the turn by using the Power Dice but that means you’ll need to keep some power in reserve just in case, and can’t use it for extra dice in combat rolls or special abilities.

    Fatigue also allows us to have some fun with other elements of the game too and here are a few examples:

    The Dwarf’s special warband ability is Headstrong, which allows them to clear Fatigue at the start of their activation on a 6+, so you don’t have to spend power to clear Fatigue… although it’s not guaranteed
    The Goblin’s special warband ability is Flee!, which allows them to run away from combat if they haven’t already been activated but they will be Fatigued afterwards. This costs one power, however so you’ll need to choose carefully when you want to run away screaming
    Some spells or special abilities will fatigue an enemy model
    Finally, it’s worth noting that while models can be given a fatigue action as part of their normal activation for free, it is possible to return to a model that has already been activated later in the turn and spend power to fatigue them. Again, this helps to create the chaos of combat and keeps your enemy on their toes because you can never quite be sure if a model has completely finished activating.

    So, there you have the basics of fatigue. Will you be pushing your heroes to the limit?


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/19 12:37:39


    Post by: Psychopomp


    The fatigue system is interesting. Models can take an extra short action, but it costs either Power *or* being reduced to one short action the next turn. That means that unlike other Power effects, you can use it even after you run out of Power but by doing so you're at a disadvantage next turn. You could, for example, have an "all out" turn where you spend all your Power and fatigue everyone to do the thing(s)....but you'd better do the thing(s), or you'll be screwed next turn!

    That is pretty 'risk vs. reward' for such a simple mechanic. I'm interested in trying it out in play.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/19 12:46:00


    Post by: sukura636


    Guys - in case you missed it, some renders of miniatures have been leaking out. Basilean Paladin and Nightstalkers Showhound





    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/19 13:46:54


    Post by: Alpharius


    Is it really called a "Showhound"?


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/19 13:54:41


    Post by: ulgurstasta


    No they are "Shadowhounds"


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/06/19 13:54:44


    Post by: DaveC


     Alpharius wrote:
    Is it really called a "Showhound"?


    Have you never watched Crufts

    It's a Shadow Hound just a typo. I went back to look at the artwork for it and noticed Ronnie added this to the blog post

    p.p.s. – oh there might be some scenery in Vanguard too, and a gi…

    [Thumb - image.png]


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/19 14:13:19


    Post by: NTRabbit


    Dare you to inspect the rump and withers of that fluffy lil' pupper


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/19 14:23:40


    Post by: sukura636


    Totes a showhound.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/19 14:40:42


    Post by: highlord tamburlaine


    Is that a shield on the back of the paladin or some sort of Chronopia- like backpack display?

    I'm hoping for the latter but expecting the former. The halo seems part of his helmet at least. Kinda neat.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/19 14:49:12


    Post by: Knight


    The knight looks promising.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/19 17:03:24


    Post by: pancakeonions


    Aw man, those figures look great! I might even be able to swap in some of those Basileans for the stupid Sigmarines in Shadespire. Normal Scale For Life!

    And that Show Hound is super cool!

    I was hoping to avoid this KS. Yikes, I don't think I'll be able to now...


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    PS is this a dakkadakka thing, that we don't start a new thread for a new game, but tack it on to a giant Mantic Fantasy thread? I still feel a bit of a newbie here, but it seems it would be nicer to have separate threads for Kings of War, Vanguard, Dungeon Saga instead of one big thread that's hard to search and make sense of?


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/19 17:51:04


    Post by: DaveC


     pancakeonions wrote:

    PS is this a dakkadakka thing, that we don't start a new thread for a new game, but tack it on to a giant Mantic Fantasy thread? I still feel a bit of a newbie here, but it seems it would be nicer to have separate threads for Kings of War, Vanguard, Dungeon Saga instead of one big thread that's hard to search and make sense of?


    Are you volunteering? someone has to start it and keep the OP up to date

    I don't mind posting fantasy news when I see it but I'm more of a Sci-Fi gamer so I keep the other thread going.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/20 00:17:34


    Post by: pancakeonions


    Haha! You busted me.

    (um nope)

    I guess I'll just keep on sloggin' through this 200 page thread to get my Vanguard fix!

    But thanks for keeping this one going


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/20 07:34:20


    Post by: Azazelx


    Hey Matt,
    Are you guys going to finally utilise hub shipping on this one?


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/20 08:47:12


    Post by: mattjgilbert


    It’s something we are looking at but unless what is being sent out is a simple, single package, it becomes a logistical nightmare if there’s add-ons too because you either then have to pick and ship those from the uk anyway or somehow figure out a remote picking operation and have picking lines in two places (one remotely).



    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/20 10:12:40


    Post by: DaveC


    KS November 1st

    Kings of War: Vanguard will be launching on Kickstarter on November 1st. Throughout this week, we’ve been exploring the game and giving you a taste of the rules. In today’s blog, we’re detailing Group Actions.



    So far in our Vanguard blogs we’ve covered the background, character cards, power dice and fatigue. If you haven’t already taken a look at those blogs, now’s probably a good time… go on, have a read, we’ll be here when you get back. Finished? Good, then we’ll carry on…

    Today we’re going to talk about Group Actions. You see, although Vanguard is about the individuals of Mantica fighting for tactical advantage or prestige and power, occasionally going into a scrap as a small gang can have its benefits! Thank goodness then for Group Actions.

    As well as activating individual characters, you can also spend power to activate multiple models at once. The idea behind this was so that the warbands can break off into smaller groups led by a specialist or support unit that’s backed up by two grunts.

    In order to use a Group Action, you must pay the appropriate power and can then activate a group of models together. All the models in the group must not have already been activated in the current turn. First you nominate a model to be the leader and then up to two more models within three inches of the first model can also perform the same action. Some models even have Special Abilities that are Group Actions… such as the Dwarf Rangers, which have a special Group Shoot action.



    KEEPING IT TOGETHER

    Participating in a Group Action replaces a model’s normal activation for the Turn. You cannot activate a single model, move it to join a group and then attempt a Group Action involving the model, for example. The common Group Actions available include:

    GROUP DEFENCE – the members of the group each make a Walk and then a Brace action. Just in case you’re wondering what a Brace action is, it increases the model’s armour value by one and is normally a long action.

    GROUP SHOOT – the group members all either Walk then Shoot, or Shoot then Walk. If Shooting is a long action for any model in the group, that model may not Walk as part of the Group Action. All members of the group must have a ranged weapon or spell to use.

    GROUP CHARGE – spend the Power to nominate a group and activate them together. Models in the group may already be engaged (in which case they will not move, nor get any charge bonuses). Only the group leader needs to have LOS to the initial charge target. Models charging after the first has made contact, must charge either the same model another member of the group already has (or is already engaged with), or a target within 3” of a model a group member has engaged. Declare the targets and then move all the attacking models first, before resolving their Melee attacks in the order you wish.

    So, there you have the basics behind Group Actions. Tactically they’re very useful during the game for giving you bonuses in combat (something we’ll cover in a future blog) but also for mixing up the order of activations. Just like Deadzone, the player who finished activating first in a round, gets to activate first in the following round. By using Group Actions you can actually have more models than your opponent but still finish your activations first. This can give you the tactical advantage of going first in the following round.

    So, will you be going it alone or working together? Hope you’ve enjoyed Vanguard Week so far. In fact, we’ve enjoyed it so much we’ll be extending the blogs into next week and looking at a few more aspects, such as combat, facing and the campaign rules.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/20 12:26:59


    Post by: Psychopomp


    So, one thing I'm wondering about the stat cards is how we'll be able to use our KoW and Dungeon Saga models with them.

    Will there be packs of stat cards to buy for each KoW army that will cover the range? Will we get a set of blank cards (or printable ones for download) that we can fill in using stats from a book?

    Basically, how are stat cards going to cover all the many options for heroes, specialists, and troops we have available from KoW and Dungeon Saga?


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/20 14:58:57


    Post by: Eilif


    Osbad wrote:

    The only thing I am not so keen about is the concept of "gaining experience" or "linked campaigns". It's just not something that interests me. I tend to get bored playing the same game too many times on the trot and like to mix it up. Also, I don't have a huge pool of opponents, so playing campaigns against the same 1 or 2 opponents tends to get pretty old pretty fast.

    It always mystifies me why whenever a new skirmish game comes along someone wants to develop a campaign system for it, when in reality getting a campaign off the ground successfully is a pretty rare event. It *can* happen, I don't deny, but mostly it has been my experience that they tend to fizzle and die out long before completion for all sorts of reasons. I suspect many gamers are a little unrealistic in their expectations, maybe? I dunno.

    Anyhoo, as long as the game is strong enough to stand up to being fun for one-off games without having to tie it into some sort of campaign system to give it any depth, I will be happy.


    Ironically perhaps, I think many people enjoy games with campaign systems for exactly the reasons you don't feel you need one. Campaigns are often seen as a good way to play scenario games that are deliberately different than the one-off type of games that many folks get bored with. Also, games that function well in a campaign setting usually seem to include enough detail and enough good quailty scenarios to work well in a one-off casual type of game.

    Even if one doesn't use the campaign rules, games like Song of Blades, Necromunda and Frostgrave are examples of games that despite not being very complicated, are definitely richer for having a good campaign system and the benefits of that spill over into one-off games too.

    As for the rarity of campaigns, it is true that they are less common than one-offs, but I've been involved with a game group that has done at least one campaign every year for the past 8 years and sometimes even more. Also, a campaign doesn't have to be too long. We've also done a few smaller campaigns that were 4 or 5 sessions long, often with just enough GM'ing/curating to fit the games into a story arc that really adds some depth to the entire experience.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/20 18:35:15


    Post by: judgedoug


    Was questioning the lazy design decisions to make the Nightstalkers an army of purple weightlifters with rubber Halloween masks that look like Masters of the Universe toys and the post got deleted. hmm


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/20 18:47:14


    Post by: highlord tamburlaine


    You say that as if a purple Masters of the Universe army is a bad thing!


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/20 19:00:33


    Post by: BobtheInquisitor


    Where are you getting the he-man stuff from? I just see a monster that looks like a SedWars Strain without its technobling.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/20 19:56:34


    Post by: insaniak


     judgedoug wrote:
    Was questioning the lazy design decisions to make the Nightstalkers an army of purple weightlifters with rubber Halloween masks that look like Masters of the Universe toys and the post got deleted. hmm

    There's been no posts deleted from this thread recently. It will have either been a software glitch, or you forgot to press the submit button.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/21 00:03:30


    Post by: pancakeonions


    Man, those purple, he-man, masters of the universe rubbery monsters look freakin' RAD! I am definitely in for a handful of those.

    A man can't have enough purple, he-man, masters of the universe rubbery monsters lying about, I always say.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/21 00:20:18


    Post by: Nostromodamus


    I'm always down for a purple rubber Ram-Man.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/21 00:23:29


    Post by: .Mikes.


     Nostromodamus wrote:
    I'm always down for a purple rubber Ram-Man.




    Same. I was planning on bypassing the KS and waiting fro retail, but man it's getting harder to resist.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/21 13:17:09


    Post by: Azazelx


     mattjgilbert wrote:
    It’s something we are looking at but unless what is being sent out is a simple, single package, it becomes a logistical nightmare if there’s add-ons too because you either then have to pick and ship those from the uk anyway or somehow figure out a remote picking operation and have picking lines in two places (one remotely).



    It seems to work for rather a lot of others, both big (CMON, Ninja Division), small (Gloomhaven seems to be close enough to a 1-man show) and many others in-between (Petersen Games) - most with a lot of add-on variation. You guys might want to talk to some other KS creators about how they've solved that problem with smaller teams who've started kickstarting products long after you guys began doing it.

    Aussies are about to be hit by import duty changes (1 July 2018) though no-one knows how it will work yet, but getting taxed on shipping costs seems likely. It's not worth backing any kickstarters that aren't shipping from local hubs anymore.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/21 15:02:56


    Post by: NTRabbit


     Azazelx wrote:

    Aussies are about to be hit by import duty changes (1 July 2018) though no-one knows how it will work yet, but getting taxed on shipping costs seems likely. It's not worth backing any kickstarters that aren't shipping from local hubs anymore.


    It starts with Gerry Harvey being fed into a wood chipper with "Penalty Rater" painted on the side, the cheers of the masses still not loud enough to drown out his whining


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/23 11:10:11


    Post by: DaveC


    Kings of War: Vanguard will be launching on Kickstarter on November 1st. Throughout this week, we’ll be exploring the game in more detail and giving you a taste of the rules. In today’s blog, we’re describing the basics of combat.



    Just in case you missed it on last Friday’s blog, the Kings of War: Vanguard Kickstarter launches on November 1st. After having so much fun going through some of the rules last week, we’ve decided to continue exploring Vanguard in more detail this week as well. So, make sure you keep coming back to the Mantic Blog to find out more about this exciting skirmish game.

    Today, we’re going to explain a little bit about combat. Remember, the stat card we showed previously? Well, first let’s take a look at the stats marked number ‘7’. Here you can see that the Wiz rolls one D8 for a ranged attack and two D8s for a melee attack. We settled on D8s after a great deal of deliberation and a lot of experimentation. Initially early in development we had a system that used a mixture of D6s and D8s, which was dependant upon how skillful the character was in combat.



    However, as you can probably imagine, keeping track of D6s or D8s was a little cumbersome so we scrapped this idea in favour of D8s. As much as we like D6s for Kings of War, in Vanguard you’ll be rolling a lot less dice during combat, so having D8s gives us some extra granularity to play around with. In some ways using D8s is a good way of ‘future proofing’ the game, in case we want to add weaker or stronger characters down the line.

    Once we’d settled on D8s, we deliberated about whether or not the number 8 should ‘explode’ when rolled. Ultimately we decided that the opportunity to go into ‘overdrive’ by rolling 8s fitted nicely with the idea of individuals going all out for victory. It also helped to create those cinematic moments that you’ll end up talking about after games. ‘Remember, that time the goblin took out an Earth Elemental after rolling six 8s?’ It may be extremely unlikely, but all us goblin lovers can dream.

    Anyway, going back to the stat card. Firstly you’ll check the range or melee attack stat to see how many D8s you’ll be rolling. Next up, check the ‘Ra’ or ‘Me’ stat for the target number you’ll need to roll. Any successes count as potential hits against your opponent. Finally your opponent rolls the number of dice equal to the potential hits and is trying to equal or exceed the ‘Ar’ statistic. This gives the defending player the opportunity to add some extra dice using any spare Power in order to keep their most valuable units alive!



    DON’T WAIT TO RETALIATE

    However, that’s not all the defending player can do. Should they wish, the defending player can also retaliate against the attack – as long as they’re not already activated and fatigued. The intention to retaliate is declared following the initial combat.

    Once a model has retaliated after an attack, they’re marked as fatigued. This means they can be activated later in the turn, however they’ll only be able to perform a short action (just like the normal rules for fatigue). If a model is already activated, it is possible to retaliate during combat but this will mark the model as activated and fatigued, so they can’t retaliate again. As a result, there’s a definite decision to be made when retaliating. Do you sacrifice part or potentially all of your activation in order to immediately strike back and avoid any potential follow-up attacks with outnumbering bonuses? Or do you wait it out to make the most of your activation?

    What’s more, you can also potentially trick your opponent into retaliating earlier in the turn by sending a weaker model into combat. Your opponent may retaliate as the red mist descends but this will hamper them for the rest of the turn and you can send in stronger models later in the turn to attack, safe in the knowledge your opponent won’t retaliate.

    In tomorrow’s blog, we’ll look at a few more elements of combat, such as facing and what happens when you get wounded.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/23 20:01:52


    Post by: lord_blackfang


    It feels so weird to read these articles as if they were new information


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/23 22:05:22


    Post by: .Mikes.


    So exploding dice, fatigue and the ability to react..... it's basically Confrontation meets Infinity. I'm in.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/24 13:49:23


    Post by: DaveC


    Vanguard will be launching on Kickstarter on November 1st. Throughout this week, we’ll be exploring the game in more detail and giving you a taste of the rules. In today’s blog, we’re describing some extra elements of combat.



    After explaining the basics of combat in yesterday’s blog, today we’ll delve a little more into some of the other elements you can expect to encounter when scrapping it out!

    ENGAGING A MODEL

    First of all let’s look at how you’ll engage enemies in close combat. Models in base-to-base contact with an enemy model are Engaged. When a model Engages another, place the front of the moving model’s base flush against the target’s base on the side contact was made, as centrally as possible. A Walk (or Run) action to Engage an enemy model does not trigger a free Melee action.

    A model Engaged in Melee may attempt to break away. Make 1 Armour Roll for each enemy model the activating model is breaking away from. Models that are knocked down are ignored. The model will lose a wound for each failed save. If the model is still alive, it may make a Run action in any direction.

    HIP TO BE SQUARE

    Why square bases? This is one of the questions that has cropped up quite a bit since we announced Vanguard. The easy answer is that because we want the models in Vanguard to be used in Kings of War and vice versa, we needed to put them on square bases, rather than circular ones. However, the other benefit is that it allows us to do interesting things with facing in the rules.



    Models in Vanguard are mounted on square bases with the back edge of the base defining the rear arc of the model. Models must be glued on their bases clearly facing one of the straight edges so it is obvious which edge is then the back edge.

    A model can potentially see anything in its front arc (subject to Line of Sight). Line of Sight (LOS) to anything wholly in the model’s rear arc is considered to be Blocked.

    If you attack a model in their rear arc, you’ll get a bonus. When shooting your attack gains Piercing (1), which means the armour value of your opponent is +1. This makes it more difficult to make the armour save. Whereas, if you’re attacking in melee, you’ll gain Crushing Strength (1), which has the same effect as Piercing. As a result, there’s a definite bonus for strategic positioning. What’s more, some of the special rules apply when attacking in the rear. For example, the Goblin Sneaky rule means that their attacks will explode on a 7 and 8 if they attack from behind.



    YOU’VE GOT A NERVE

    Finally in today’s blog, we’ll briefly describe Nerve. Although the term will be familiar to those who play Kings of War, in Vanguard it works a little differently. A model’s Nerve value is a representation of its morale, willpower and self-control. If things start to go wrong, or an individual is required to do something they aren’t comfortable with, it might take a test of nerve to overcome it, or the Warband will struggle to act as a coherent fighting force.

    The Nerve value will mainly come into effect once a Warband is broken. A Warband is broken if it has less than half the number of starting models remaining (by model count). Determine if a Warband is broken at the start of each Round. Once a Warband is broken, each unengaged model in the Warband must make a Fallback Check when it activates. If performing a group action, use the Nerve value of the model nominated for the group to make the Fallback Check.

    A Fallback Check requires the model to roll a dice and equal/beat its Nerve value. If it fails to make the test it will immediately move towards its own table edge along a direct a path as possible and as far as possible up to twice its Speed in inches. Once a model has fallen back, it cannot have any further actions played on it that turn. There’s even the chance the model will run off the board, if they reach the table edge!

    Fallback actions are particularly interesting towards the end of the game, as you’ll potentially end up running away from an objective or fight. Thematically this fits in nicely because as a fighter sees their comrades die in battle, it’s likely they would lose their nerve and decide to run away! It’s worth noting that – a little like Kings of War – some characters do have the Inspiring special rule. This allows models within 6” to re-roll a failed Nerve test.

    Hope you’re still enjoying the Vanguard blogs! Tomorrow we’ll look at how terrain is used in Vanguard.

    [Thumb - image.png]
    [Thumb - image.jpeg]


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/25 14:48:23


    Post by: DaveC


    Kings of War: Vanguard will be launching on Kickstarter on November 1st. Throughout this week, we’ll be exploring the game in more detail and giving you a taste of the rules. In today’s blog, we’re highlighting the importance of terrain and scenery.



    Although terrain won’t be as fundamental to Vanguard as something like Deadzone, it will still have an important part to play. This will come in two forms: scenery as obstacles and barriers, alongside scenery that will become objectives in a particular scenario. Today, we’re going to have a look at the former and explain how terrain will play an important part in combat.

    First, it’s worth mentioning that – just like Kings of War – models and terrain will all have a height value. This is used when determining line of sight and cover. Models all have their height value listed on the stat card, while terrain can be decided before a game starts. What’s more, when a model is standing on a particular piece of terrain, then you combine the numbers to give you the total height.

    LOS from your model to an enemy model is considered Blocked if a line to all parts of the enemy model’s base passes through:

    A model or terrain piece of the same height or more as your model, and the enemy model does not have a greater Height than the blocking item. (If the enemy model does have a greater height, LOS is only Partially Blocked) – see below.
    A blocking model or blocking terrain piece of the same height as the enemy model. However, this may be ignored if your model has a greater height than the blocking item and is within 3” of the blocking item
    LOS from your model to an enemy model is considered Partially Blocked if:

    only part (not all) of the enemy model’s base is in a position that would be considered Blocked.
    the enemy model is behind a blocking item but has a greater Height
    the enemy model is within an area of difficult terrain that is at least Height 1 (e.g. shooting at a model within a wood)


    THE SCENIC ROUTE

    In Vanguard, the different types of scenery and terrain that are used are classified into the following types.

    Open Ground

    Areas of flat open grass, road, or any other clear swathe of land is considered to be Open Ground. Open Ground doesn’t impede a model’s movement in any way.

    Obstacles

    Obstacles are linear barriers that may lay in a model’s path as it moves. Examples are walls, hedges and fences. Obstacles up to the height of the model cost 2” of movement to cross over, regardless of how fast the model is moving. Anything taller than the model will need to be climbed up and over. Obstacles will often provide cover for targets behind them as they can cause Line of Sight to be partially blocked. What’s more, if a defending model is on the other side of an obstacle and the attack is in its front arc, its Armour is 1 better for this Armour roll, as if it were Braced. Finally, when fighting across an obstacle, there’s no need to Break Away, if you want to disengage an enemy.

    Difficult Terrain

    Areas of broken ground, wooded areas, ruins, steep scree slopes and marshy ground are all examples of Difficult Terrain. Models count every inch moved in Difficult Terrain as 2”. Thus, a model moving 3” through Difficult Terrain counts as having moved 6”.

    Areas of Difficult Terrain should be clearly defined with an obvious boundary. Unless the players agree, or a scenario specifies an exact configuration of the elements within the area, they are simply representations and can be moved to make model placement easier if required (e.g. you may need to move a tree to one side to make room for a model that has moved).

    Impassable Terrain

    Some terrain simply blocks movement. Solid buildings, lava pools, large rock pillars are all good examples. Models cannot move into or on top of Impassable Terrain and must move around it.

    TAKING THE FALL

    Finally it’s worth noting that models can jump (or fall!) down their Height in inches for no penalty. The vertical distance is counted as part of the model’s movement. Models jumping or falling further than this take n potential wounds with Crushing Strength (n), where n is the difference between the model’s Height and the distance to the ground, rounding down.

    Thus a Height 2 model jumping down a 4” high wall will take 2 potential wounds, each with Crushing Strength (2). A Height 1 model jumping down the same wall would take 3 potential wounds, each with Crushing Strength (3). A model that takes any wounds from falling ends its action and is knocked down. So, if you can push an enemy off a building, sometimes it’s better than actually fighting them!

    TerrainCrate – our new range of fantasy scenery – will certainly come in handy when it comes to creating an awesome Vanguard setting. Hmm… wouldn’t it be good if there were some Vanguard-themed TerrainCrate pieces…


    It will be interesting to see what terrain they do in the KS


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Vanguard alpha rules battle report




    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/26 14:06:53


    Post by: DaveC


    KINGS OF WAR: VANGUARD – PLAYING A CAMPAIGN
    OCTOBER 26, 2017 ROB BURMAN ARTWORK & CONCEPT, BACKGROUND, BASILEA, CONCEPT SKETCHES, GAMING, GENERAL, HOBBY, KICKSTARTER, KINGS OF WAR, MANTIC GAMES, NEWS, NIGHTSTALKERS, PRE-RELEASE, UNCATEGORIZED 1
    Kings of War: Vanguard will be launching on Kickstarter on November 1st. Throughout this week, we’ll be exploring the game in more detail and giving you a taste of the rules. In today’s blog, we’re talking about the campaign mode!



    One of the exciting aspects of Vanguard is the story-telling and legend-building possibilities of the campaign system.

    Campaigns allow players to link individual games of Vanguard into a larger narrative that chronicles the adventures of their Warband members’ lives and trials. Campaigns can take a bit work, but a fun and exciting campaign can be very rewarding and will likely feature in your gaming group’s conversations for years to come!

    Players who have Kings of War armies, can also combine both games into a bigger, more involved narrative story arc where the adventures of the Warbands skirmishing over strategic ground, ambushing enemy raiding parties or destroying enemy supplies can influence the larger battles – for better or for worse.

    Mantica is a dangerous place, but it is also filled with great opportunities. The land may be razed by the passing of great armies, but often critical infrastructure, supplies and valuable items remain intact and are left behind. Warbands will have their own missions to perform, whether it is containing a threat, releasing a prisoner, assassinating an enemy general, or stealing the enemy’s plans. As your Warband becomes more and more successful in achieving their goals, they will encounter many useful abandoned items, artefacts and equipment to retrieve and make use of.

    Warriors in a Warband become adept at salvaging what they find and are sometimes boosted by the occasional lucky find of a rare or magical item. While resupply and intelligence from the army’s general is possible, it cannot always be relied upon as supply lines are cut and communications are disrupted. Warbands learn to operate on their own, often far ahead or far afield from their army’s base camp. Such a life can be gruelling and cruel, but the survivors become grizzled veterans and opponents to be feared.

    Keeping you company

    In a campaign, you can hand-pick your chosen warriors to form your warband for a given scenario from a larger Vanguard Company. Your Company represents the full roster of heroes, specialists, hardened vets and cannon-fodder that are sent out into the cold, morning mists to cause mischief and scout the land ahead. As warriors gain experience and skills, or pick up injuries along the way, so your company, and the models you have available, will grow and evolve with each game you play. Every company has a Supply Caravan to store all its equipment and as Vanguard Companies are given a high degree of autonomy by their army generals, they also have their own stash of accumulated wealth in the form of Campaign Gold.



    Taking part in a campaign

    A campaign starts with the building of an initial Company. The selection rules for this are very similar to those for building a warband for a game, but you get more to spend to create a bigger pool of models and equipment to draw from.

    The next step is to assign a Leader and then any other Retinue roles – more on those in a bit.

    When playing a campaign, because you have a mix of models, are not always going to use them all at once or even have them available, and each will gain experience and skills at different times, it’s best to keep track of it all on a Campaign Roster. While you can still use the warband stat and equipment cards for reference during play, most record keeping and reference in campaign play will be done on your roster so it will become an invaluable tool and record of your achievements (or defeats!)

    When models are selected from the Company to form a Warband for a game, they have the chance to gain experience. They can do this for taking part in missions, achieving certain objectives, or perhaps killing enemy models. As models gain experience, they will reach new Ranks. At each rank, they get the option of an enhancement. Depending their type, this could be a new skill, a stat increase, learning a new spell etc.

    It’s worth noting that GRUNTS never gain experience. They are a cheap source of cannon-fodder to make up numbers and there are plenty more in the army where they came from! GRUNTS are also replaced for free if they die. GRUNTS are cheap and cheerful (well, maybe not that happy…)

    WARRIORS can only achieve Rank 2. They have some potential for “levelling up” but can’t go too far before reaching their natural peak.

    All other model types can achieve Rank 5 and will be much more powerful than when they started out! SPELLCASTERS get the opportunity to learn spells from the basic Vanguard spellbook or from their faction’s own arcane spellbook. Each Rank is increasingly harder to achieve though so a model will have to have played lot of games successfully to fulfil their destiny.



    Retinues

    As well as the Leader roll, there are a number of other special roles that you can assign to members of the Company. These include Quartermaster, Master Scout, Healer and Arcanist. Having a role assigned can open up new in-game options for the model, new ways to gain experience, bonuses at Rank levels and even influence some rolls or events in the sequence that takes place between games. Promotion and demotion between models and roles is possible but can come at a cost. Having a Retinue can be very useful – if you can keep them alive!

    Between games

    Between games of Vanguard, you will see how your warriors performed, whether they recover or succumb to any injuries, what wealth they find (or steal), and see what they find as they explore the world around them.

    The between-game sequence involves the following steps:

    Return Equipment to the Supplies Caravan
    Resolve Casualties
    Retinue Assessment
    Resolve Experience
    Calculate Campaign Gold
    Forage & Explore
    Recruitment and Resupply
    Check roster is fully updated
    One of the most fun phases is often the Forage & Explore phase. This gives you the opportunity to roll on a table to see just what it is your warband has discovered. It could be a deserted village, a hidden temple that might hold a magical artefact, the body of a dead enemy with vital intelligence or a stash of gold a farmer buried in a field! There will be a detailed exploration table that will use a D88 result to give a large and varied set of possible events, encounters and locations. Where applicable, suggestions for playing out encounters using things like Kings of War or Dungeon Saga will be given.

    Are you excited about the campaign mode? Make sure you tune in tomorrow when we’ll be releasing the Vanguard alpha rules *swoons*


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/26 15:16:00


    Post by: TheAuldGrump


    That sounds very interesting - I like the idea of warbands being chosen from among a larger company or agency.

    Not so happy with the idea of GRUNTS and WARRIORS - I always liked it in Mordheim when one of the warriors became a character.

    The Auld Grump


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/26 21:59:12


    Post by: .Mikes.


    So.... if I'm reading this right it should be possible to make a warband from a unit within your KoW army? Damn, the modelling possibilities.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    I am going to go full Nightmare Before Christmas on these guys.



    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/27 00:16:07


    Post by: Zethnar


    That video was pretty good, although I'm not sure about the rolling for power points at the start of every turn. it feels like it could be a little too random and have a little too much influence over what you can and can't do in a turn. Still, Vanguard might actually turn out to be interesting, making this the first product from Mantic I can say that about since they royally screwed up their Dungeon Saga kickstarter.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/27 05:50:34


    Post by: Ancestral Hamster


     Zethnar wrote:
    since they royally screwed up their Dungeon Saga kickstarter.
    How reliable is Mantic when it comes to Kickstarter fulfillment? Is waiting for retail the better idea?


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/27 07:09:42


    Post by: kodos


    it depends on what you expect
    they are reliable but also want to listen to the costumer, and than stupid stuff can happen, like if the backers are asked "to you want faster shipping or higher quality" and the majority prefer to get their stuff faster (and than all whine about the bad quality)

    KS means that you buy something that is not yet produced and you take the risk that it will be different or take longer because of not known production issues
    some people don't care about time because the are aware that it will take longer, others go mad if they get their stuff 2 weeks later than expected


    But I prefer to wait for retail, just because I don't like KS in general (and buy hobby stuff for my current needs and not for stuff I may want to play in 2 years) and not because Mantic is not reliabel


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/27 08:30:48


    Post by: lord_blackfang


     Zethnar wrote:
    That video was pretty good, although I'm not sure about the rolling for power points at the start of every turn. it feels like it could be a little too random and have a little too much influence over what you can and can't do in a turn. Still, Vanguard might actually turn out to be interesting, making this the first product from Mantic I can say that about since they royally screwed up their Dungeon Saga kickstarter.


    I wasn't thrilled with the power dice mechanic when I read it, but it works great in practice.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/27 12:00:40


    Post by: NTRabbit


    They've released the alpha rules for people to play with in advance of the KS, has warbands for Dwarfs, Goblins, Undead, and Abyssals

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ewhudffg0qrtvpg/VANGUARD%20-%20ALPHA%20RULES%20OCT%2027.zip?dl=0


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/27 13:38:45


    Post by: DaveC


    New Basilean render



    Miniatures will be plastic or resin, plastic is not defined but I'd guess it's the PVC board game plastic for most and HIPS for a few troops like Men at Arms.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/27 14:40:47


    Post by: Zethnar


     Ancestral Hamster wrote:
    How reliable is Mantic when it comes to Kickstarter fulfillment? Is waiting for retail the better idea?


    Delivery was fine. I think some people had troubles but that's normally the case for any kickstarter I've been involved in and likely more often the fault of the backer rather than the company. I've never personally had a delivery go missing, whether it was from Mantic or otherwise, but then I fill out my pledge managers on time and make sure I pay for shipping.

    The problem with Dungeon Saga was that the rule books were full of errors and problems and felt as though they hadn't been properly playtested. They also fell way short of what was promised in the kickstarter. Mantic refused to admit there was any issue with the rules and wouldn't talk about them, let alone issue an FAQ. It wasn't until the Star Saga kickstarter was preparing to go live, and they decided to try and head off any dissent before it happened, that they admitted the game was sub-par and promised to try and at least fix the issues with the core rules by forming a 'rules committee'. Of course they then went completely silent for another eight months, only releasing the FAQ after continued prompting by the community.

    Not that I'm still bitter about the whole thing.

    Still, they've stopped contracting the designer that was in charge of Dungeon Saga and there might be some hope we'll see a fixed 2nd edition as I believe the base game did well for them (well enough to sell through a couple of printings). I believe their kickstarters since then have also been better (so at least they learned from their mistakes), although I've not participated in them myself.

    Anyway I don't want to get too far off topic here. I'm willing to give Mantic another chance as despite their past problems they continue to produce content that interests me (at least with their fantasy lines), even if previous experiences have left me unwilling to open my wallet of late. Vanguard may well be the product to change that.



    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/27 14:41:01


    Post by: Alpharius


     DaveC wrote:

    Miniatures will be plastic or resin, plastic is not defined but I'd guess it's the PVC board game plastic for most and HIPS for a few troops like Men at Arms.


    So, "Plastic" (PVC), Resin or HIPs?



    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/27 15:41:34


    Post by: DaveC


     Alpharius wrote:
     DaveC wrote:

    Miniatures will be plastic or resin, plastic is not defined but I'd guess it's the PVC board game plastic for most and HIPS for a few troops like Men at Arms.


    So, "Plastic" (PVC), Resin or HIPs?



    I probably should have clarified by saying low volume - only one needed in an army/warband miniatures in resin, higher volume but not enough to justify HIPs in PVC and HIPS only for stuff that will be used in bulk for Vanguard and KoW like M@A basically how they did it for Deadzone infestation which produced 5 HIPs kits (plus terrain), Vanguard is a good excuse to do some HIPs stuff for KoW without doing another KoW KS.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/27 16:06:47


    Post by: highlord tamburlaine


    That is one impressive looking dude.


    His design is giving me flashbacks to playing Destrega on the PS1 with Barzam and his favorite character Raone.
    No idea why. The papal- like regalness perhaps?


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/28 02:02:42


    Post by: Ancestral Hamster


     kodos wrote:
    it depends on what you expect
    they are reliable but also want to listen to the costumer, and than stupid stuff can happen, like if the backers are asked "to you want faster shipping or higher quality" and the majority prefer to get their stuff faster (and than all whine about the bad quality)

    KS means that you buy something that is not yet produced and you take the risk that it will be different or take longer because of not known production issues
    some people don't care about time because the are aware that it will take longer, others go mad if they get their stuff 2 weeks later than expected

    But I prefer to wait for retail, just because I don't like KS in general (and buy hobby stuff for my current needs and not for stuff I may want to play in 2 years) and not because Mantic is not reliabel

    Zethnar, Kodos thank you for your replies. That's pretty much what I wanted to know. Will just have to wait and see what kind of offer Mantic makes when the KS launches. Your point about not wanting to play the game you backed two years ago is a good one, and has happened to one or two games I backed on KS. Need to keep it in mind if the shinies are too tempting.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/28 07:30:59


    Post by: lord_blackfang


    I've heavily backed Deadzone 1&2, Dreadball Xtreme, Kings of War 2, Mars Attacks and Warpath (of those that have delivered already) and would still back a Mantic KS without a second thought if I liked the physical product. But I did skip Dungeon Saga, which I hear was a bit of a mess.

    Mantic isn't flawless but they can be trusted to deliver bucketfuls of at least decent (and ranging all the way up to excellent) minis for silly cheap. The rules... often feel like Mantic got bored 75% of the way in and said, what the heck, we already got the money, no need to polish this, just print it and ship it. KOW2 the shining exception here and definitely one of the top 5 quality rulesets currently existing in the hobby.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/28 12:51:44


    Post by: DaveC







    Above is a Reaper - Nighstalkers core troop 3 to 4 used in Vanguard up to blocks of 20 in KoW - definite candidate for HIPs

    Phantom - can fly
    Spoiler:


    KS will inroduce the Northern Alliance after new Baselians and Nightstalkers. Includes Ice Naiads and Snow Trolls mentioned. I think I might have a use for all those Frostgrave Barbarians I bought.




    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/28 13:41:52


    Post by: Psychopomp


     Ancestral Hamster wrote:
     kodos wrote:
    it depends on what you expect
    they are reliable but also want to listen to the costumer, and than stupid stuff can happen, like if the backers are asked "to you want faster shipping or higher quality" and the majority prefer to get their stuff faster (and than all whine about the bad quality)

    KS means that you buy something that is not yet produced and you take the risk that it will be different or take longer because of not known production issues
    some people don't care about time because the are aware that it will take longer, others go mad if they get their stuff 2 weeks later than expected

    But I prefer to wait for retail, just because I don't like KS in general (and buy hobby stuff for my current needs and not for stuff I may want to play in 2 years) and not because Mantic is not reliabel

    Zethnar, Kodos thank you for your replies. That's pretty much what I wanted to know. Will just have to wait and see what kind of offer Mantic makes when the KS launches. Your point about not wanting to play the game you backed two years ago is a good one, and has happened to one or two games I backed on KS. Need to keep it in mind if the shinies are too tempting.


    The problems with Dungeon Saga weren't really on the Kickstarter fulfillment, but on the game development side of things. To explain why I feel that way, I'll copy over a post I made on Mantic's DS sub-forum on the state of the game. I reference a few prior posts, but I think the context is easily inferred from my post.

    Before I do so, though, I want to stress that since the Dungeon Saga KS, I've also heavily backed the Deadzone 2 and Warpath Kickstarters and was very pleased with what I've gotten. I plan to throw $1 into the Vanguard KS to follow it, and if I don't increase that later I expect it to only be because my last semester of grad school has tapped me out financially. (The timing is pretty awful for me, actually.)

    I don't think the expectation of "much like Warhammer Quest" was an uncommon one, actually. I mean, the reason I was hyped up for the Kickstarter was Ronnie - in his Beasts of War pre-campaign hype visit - started talking about the "Book of Unspeakable Darkness" or whatever he called it at the time and basically described the Roleplay Book from Warhammer Quest without naming names. I think that was a very common and clear expectation through the whole process, and by the end of the Kickstarter had metastasized into a concept of, "The core game will be like Heroquest, and the Adventurer's Companion expansion turns it into Advanced Heroquest/Warhammer Quest." I don't recall any other expectation for the game at that point.

    Then - and I hate to keep throwing Jake Thornton under the bus, because he's a decent guy, but he keeps deserving it - Jake turned out to not like Warhammer Quest or other "RPG-lites", and didn't do any research on modern market dungeon crawlers. At one point on his blog, I pointed out that it sounded like his vision for the Overlord was him reinventing Descent, and he confessed to having never looked at Descent! Despite clear (and often vocal, on his blog) expectations from the Kickstarter pre-hype and the backers, Jake decided to write Jake Thornton's Nostalgic Heroquest Rewrite, By Jake Thornton for Jake Thornton. And on the Adventurer's Companion, it really really shows. I fully agree with eriochrome's assessment that it's at alpha/beta level of completion. I lean more towards 'alpha', myself. And I can't help but notice that that seemed to be Jake's modus operandi for his Mantic work - look at how Dreadball and Deadzone first editions were good games but...not *quite* right. Then a Rules Committee and later second editions cleaned (and finished) them up to be fantastic games.

    So, I think that Dungeon Saga's fundamental problem lies with a disconnect between the expectations of both the Kickstarter team *and* backers for a new, modern day Warhammer Quest...and the preferences and practices of the contracted creator. At this point, I don't think the consequences of that disconnect can be rectified with tweaks and errata. I think the core game may need a second edition, too...just to add more "hardpoints" to the core system to allow a hypothetical Adventurer's Companion second edition to add extra features onto. Or even incorporate some of the elements from the AC into the core game to begin with. I refer back to my previous post, where I pointed out that random monster placement and random dungeon design being the the WHQ core rules made their incorporation into the expanded rules seamless. I suspect that by designing the game around strictly pre-written scenarios, Jake may have written DS into a corner on expand-ability and replay value. I also suspect that by focusing so heavily on an adversarial not-GM vs PCs dynamic and trying to retain that in the AC, the game system lacks the flexibility to allow for easy, intuitive co-op and/or randomized play. (I really think that the RC and/or a second edition should take advantage of the Adventurer Companion's status as an add-on expansion to incorporate a change in the role of the Overlord to more of a traditional GM-as-referee one. That would smooth out a lot of the difficulty in creating a design-your-own dungeon section.) Finally, for something as complex as what the Adventurer's Companion *needs* to do, I wouldn't be afraid of using tables. Tables might not be in vogue right now, but they save on the need for planning, printing, and including cards for all the necessary features or variables. Also, tables *work* for this sort of thing. (See also the Deadzone second ed. exploration tables.)

    In summary, I as time goes on, I am increasingly of the opinion that DS needs a second edition that refocuses on the promises and expectations from the Kickstarter. Such a second edition would benefit from using the framework of the first edition (indeed, I don't think Mantic even needs to worry about changing the miniatures and furniture that comes in each box) but heavily revised, polished, and re-oriented towards the original design goals without Jake Thorntons personal preferences hindering them. I would absolutely back another Kickstarter for such a project (though I'd prefer a simple rerelease with new, second edition rulebooks) especially at a new-rules-only level.

    Anyway, that's just my opinion on a game I was really primed to enjoy but ended up being badly disappointed by. I realize that a lot of the work it needs will be delayed until we see what Star Saga did differently and how the consumers react. I just hope the work needed gets done eventually, as I think there's a kernel of a great game in Dungeon Saga, it just needs a re-focused second edition to bring that kernel out and allow it to flourish.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/28 15:28:07


    Post by: BobtheInquisitor


    I pledge my dollar.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/28 16:41:29


    Post by: highlord tamburlaine


    No takebacks Mr. Inquisitor! You aren't allowed to pull that pledge now!

    Ogre guards could end up being a cool unit. Always a sucker for giant armored humanoids.

    Guess if I'm not a big fan of the models for this Northern faction I can always substitute in Shieldwolf maidens and Trollkin.

    Probably most excited to see what the Night Stalker units look like on the table.
    Mantic's last few board game plastic releases have been pretty well detailed. Hopefully these remain as such.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/28 17:20:08


    Post by: lord_blackfang


    I'll buy 100 of any new HIPS troop, just saying.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/28 18:43:33


    Post by: Theophony


    Psychopomp I’ll have to argue without you on the Dungeon Saga KS fulfillment not being a problem .

    I got my order missing stuff and it took forever for them to get replacements. When they sent replacement order they sent an extra of Blaine on dinosaur, which they were short of to fill other orders . Communications was lousy as well. They have since hired more people, but I haven’t been willing to buy anything from them since. (Except clearance stuff off the shelves)


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/29 00:12:14


    Post by: Azazelx


     Theophony wrote:
    Psychopomp I’ll have to argue without you on the Dungeon Saga KS fulfillment not being a problem .

    I got my order missing stuff and it took forever for them to get replacements. When they sent replacement order they sent an extra of Blaine on dinosaur, which they were short of to fill other orders . Communications was lousy as well. They have since hired more people, but I haven’t been willing to buy anything from them since. (Except clearance stuff off the shelves)


    Yeah, this.

    Suggesting that being shipped miscasts and missing items are "more often the fault of the backer than the company" is a dick move, Zethnar. I'm not the one who fethed up the boxing of my Mantic KS pledges in Nottingham any of the many times I've been mis-shipped, shipped broken or miscast models, or missing items. I'm not sure how you can even suggest it to be so. How does that narrative work? Backers' job is to sent them the correct money and then open the box that should contain the correct items.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/29 01:06:15


    Post by: jeff white


    I downloaded the Alpha Rules.
    Read through them.
    The game looks like a winner
    and coming out head to head against Shadespire,
    with all of GW's ongoing collectible card game profit maximization shenanigans,
    I have to say that hands down this is the better game.
    Mantic may be turning the tables with this one.
    As their miniatures quality improves, their production and logistics coordinate and become more professional, and as GW seems intent on mangling their "IP" to milk it for money at every turn, this game signals a sharp upturn for Mantic in my opinion.
    A very cool release.
    I wish the Mantic people the very best of luck with this one.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/29 01:24:16


    Post by: Theophony


     Azazelx wrote:
     Theophony wrote:
    Psychopomp I’ll have to argue without you on the Dungeon Saga KS fulfillment not being a problem .

    I got my order missing stuff and it took forever for them to get replacements. When they sent replacement order they sent an extra of Blaine on dinosaur, which they were short of to fill other orders . Communications was lousy as well. They have since hired more people, but I haven’t been willing to buy anything from them since. (Except clearance stuff off the shelves)


    Yeah, this.

    Suggesting that being shipped miscasts and missing items are "more often the fault of the backer than the company" is a dick move, Zethnar. I'm not the one who fethed up the boxing of my Mantic KS pledges in Nottingham any of the many times I've been mis-shipped, shipped broken or miscast models, or missing items. I'm not sure how you can even suggest it to be so. How does that narrative work? Backers' job is to sent them the correct money and then open the box that should contain the correct items.


    Very true and the DS KS was the one where their pledgemanager lost ( mantic says it wasn’t lost, just misplaced) a slew of the KS backers information and didn’t realize it until after the complaints started to roll in. They also changed manufacturers during this time (at least on Dino Blaine) even using Prodos at some point to get things done. Even with that they didn’t get enough produced to cover the numbers they needed and some people waited months, and they even called people liars in their comments.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/29 02:11:21


    Post by: BobtheInquisitor


     highlord tamburlaine wrote:
    No takebacks Mr. Inquisitor! You aren't allowed to pull that pledge now!

    Ogre guards could end up being a cool unit. Always a sucker for giant armored humanoids.

    Guess if I'm not a big fan of the models for this Northern faction I can always substitute in Shieldwolf maidens and Trollkin.

    Probably most excited to see what the Night Stalker units look like on the table.
    Mantic's last few board game plastic releases have been pretty well detailed. Hopefully these remain as such.



    I haven't been disappointed with Mantic Kickstarter minis for a while now. I've lost dollars to far worse campaigns.

    I really like the look of the Basileans, so I'll likely get the small Basilean pledge.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/29 04:37:59


    Post by: Zethnar


     Azazelx wrote:
    Suggesting that being shipped miscasts and missing items are "more often the fault of the backer than the company" is a dick move, Zethnar.


    I'm not saying that companies don't feth up shipping. When you're doing thousands of orders over the period of a week or two its bound to happen. But the amount of times I've seen people bitching about not receiving their pledge only to be told "You never filled out the pledge manager. Contact us at [email address] and we'll fix you up" far outweighs the number of times I've seen complaints from people with legitimately mis-packed items.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/29 05:50:34


    Post by: NTRabbit


     Theophony wrote:
    Very true and the DS KS was the one where their pledgemanager lost ( mantic says it wasn’t lost, just misplaced) a slew of the KS backers information and didn’t realize it until after the complaints started to roll in. They also changed manufacturers during this time (at least on Dino Blaine) even using Prodos at some point to get things done. Even with that they didn’t get enough produced to cover the numbers they needed and some people waited months, and they even called people liars in their comments.


    They didn't change dino blaine manufacturers, they added additional ones because the original resin shop proved unable to meet the deadline to which they'd agreed. I think that particular fiasco is what drove Mantic to open up their own in house resin shop.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/29 05:57:52


    Post by: RiTides


     jeff white wrote:
    I downloaded the Alpha Rules.
    Read through them.
    The game looks like a winner
    and coming out head to head against Shadespire,
    with all of GW's ongoing collectible card game profit maximization shenanigans,
    I have to say that hands down this is the better game.
    Mantic may be turning the tables with this one.
    As their miniatures quality improves, their production and logistics coordinate and become more professional, and as GW seems intent on mangling their "IP" to milk it for money at every turn, this game signals a sharp upturn for Mantic in my opinion.
    A very cool release.
    I wish the Mantic people the very best of luck with this one.

    Wow, I'm not sure what your experience with Shadespire has been, but I've had the opposite reaction. It isn't "collectible", you can own all gameplay content and miniatures for just $120 ($60 starter and two $30 expansions). You're not allowed to take duplicate cards so this is literally everything in the game.

    In Q1 they'll be putting out two more expansions. Again, hardly collectible territory! X-wing has been going this route, only it Does allow duplicates, requiring you to buy a lot more. GW has been surprisingly generous with Shadespire.

    Anyway, nothing against Mantic, but my experience with Shadespire is just at odds with what you posted here...


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/29 14:28:24


    Post by: ulgurstasta


    Honestly I have a hard time seeing the point of the northern alliance army. Seems to be stepping on the Varangur toes design-wise.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/29 15:53:59


    Post by: Nostromodamus


     ulgurstasta wrote:
    Honestly I have a hard time seeing the point of the northern alliance army. Seems to be stepping on the Varangur toes design-wise.


    Me neither. Just seems to be a case of "[random KoW unit] with a coat on". Varangur and Kingdoms of Men (which can have good or evil allies) already fill the niche.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/29 16:19:10


    Post by: kodos


    The other way around, Varangur is just a Spin Off of the Northern Alliance, as Salamanders are for Nature or Rhordia is for KoM

    So nothing unique but not so specialised as Varangur



    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/29 18:59:15


    Post by: Psychopomp


    *shrug*

    I haven't experienced any issues with any of my Mantic Kickstarter shipments (so far) out of four I've participated in and received, so I can't criticize them for that. My only disappointment with them (so far) has been the development of Dungeon Saga contrary to my (and others' online) expectations based on Ronnie's presentations and the Kickstarter updates.

    The only thing shipping/fulfillment wise I can say is the delays from the listed delivery estimate, but I've found that Kickstarter delivery estimates are almost always overly optimistic, so I just add 2-3 months in my head anyways. I *would* have preferred my Warpath vehicles not be delayed (I got GCPS and Plague battleforces), but they seem to be coming along and I have plenty of lead & plastic pile to tide me over.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/29 23:56:07


    Post by: pancakeonions


    The only problem I had was with the original Kings of War kickstarter (2012), I had pledged for the $100 level, and they accidentally sent me a $225 level pledge. By the time I figured it out, they weren't interested in "fixing it" (ie, having me send my toys back).

    So there's some more fodder for the Mantic nay sayers! They didn't fix the problem with my pledge! Those lazy bums!

    (Been a big Mantic fan ever since, even if some of the models I got in that pledge were pretty janky)


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/30 04:52:02


    Post by: highlord tamburlaine


    I just got my Veer Myn tunneler the other day... and it's got extras of certain pieces and missing other core ones.

    Looks like I'll be firing off an email as soon as Vanguard starts!

    On the plus side, they're usually even more responsive when there's a Kickstarter running.

    And for as much flak as we give them, I thought Mantic's been slowing down on the kickstarters as of late.


    [Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors @ 2017/10/30 06:57:17


    Post by: Azazelx


     Zethnar wrote:
     Azazelx wrote:
    Suggesting that being shipped miscasts and missing items are "more often the fault of the backer than the company" is a dick move, Zethnar.


    I'm not saying that companies don't feth up shipping. When you're doing thousands of orders over the period of a week or two its bound to happen. But the amount of times I've seen people bitching about not receiving their pledge only to be told "You never filled out the pledge manager. Contact us at [email address] and we'll fix you up" far outweighs the number of times I've seen complaints from people with legitimately mis-packed items.


    With as about as much respect as it deserves, I'll take what you claim to "have seen" with a bucket of salt, mate.




    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     jeff white wrote:
    I downloaded the Alpha Rules.
    Read through them.
    The game looks like a winner
    and coming out head to head against Shadespire,
    with all of GW's ongoing collectible card game profit maximization shenanigans,
    I have to say that hands down this is the better game.
    Mantic may be turning the tables with this one.
    As their miniatures quality improves, their production and logistics coordinate and become more professional, and as GW seems intent on mangling their "IP" to milk it for money at every turn, this game signals a sharp upturn for Mantic in my opinion.
    A very cool release.
    I wish the Mantic people the very best of luck with this one.


    The game might well be excellent, but it's not head to head against Shadespire. Nothing like it, in fact. Shadespire is out now. This is a Kickstarter to launch sometime soon (TM) and deliver in... well, I'd expect it in a year's time for wave 1, and about 4 months after that for wave 2, and who knows after that for wave 3.

    That's about as far from head to head as you can get.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     highlord tamburlaine wrote:
    I just got my Veer Myn tunneler the other day... and it's got extras of certain pieces and missing other core ones.
    Looks like I'll be firing off an email as soon as Vanguard starts!
    On the plus side, they're usually even more responsive when there's a Kickstarter running.
    And for as much flak as we give them, I thought Mantic's been slowing down on the kickstarters as of late.



    Any idea where we can find instructions so I can spend my time QAing their product again? My sets didn't come with any.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     pancakeonions wrote:
    The only problem I had was with the original Kings of War kickstarter (2012), I had pledged for the $100 level, and they accidentally sent me a $225 level pledge. By the time I figured it out, they weren't interested in "fixing it" (ie, having me send my toys back).
    So there's some more fodder for the Mantic nay sayers! They didn't fix the problem with my pledge! Those lazy bums!
    (Been a big Mantic fan ever since, even if some of the models I got in that pledge were pretty janky)


    It's fantastic that you ended up "on top" for one of your pledges, and even better that you and others have had lots of pledges arrive without any problems at all. Seriously. That's great. But belittling the many of us who have backed them time and time again with feth up after feth up after feth up that have in many cases taken months and way too many emails to resolve... well, it's not very nice. An "I'm alright, Jack" attitude used to dismiss others' legitimate complaints and experiences isn't very useful.