Khaine's Wrath wrote: Are there any potential force org swaps? Ferrisians becoming troops? Or thunderwolf? Or WG?
As far as i can see logan doesnt make wolfguard troops anymore. Canis also doesnt make fenrisian wolves troops anymore. Didnt see any other swap opportunities. So if i didnt overlook something there are none.
Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote: Is there anything that says whether or not you have to roll for sagas or can you just choose them from wargear on IC's like before?
The sagas are the warlord traits. You have to roll for them unless you have a fixed trait on an IC.
They are:
Warrior Born = Reroll all failde to hit
Wolfkin = stubborn for beasts and cavalry, furious charge within 12"
Beastslayer= Monster Hunter
Bear= FNP 6+
Hunter= Outflank and stealth
Majesty= reroll pinning and morale within 12"
Pedro Kantor wrote: Can i build a WGPL in Termie Armour with SS / CML for my LF pack ?
That Saga's thing sucks, so there is no more having multiple HQ's running about with their own active saga anymore ?
No CML for WGPL.
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Sir Arun wrote: How is the fluff section this time? Bigger than in the old codex? Smaller?
Is it largely a copy paste job or differently worded and new stuff?
Didnt read into it so far. On the first look it seems like more of the old. THe fluff section is bigger than in the old codex though. 23 pages of fluff.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Can all Wolf Lords be Santa, or only Logan? (Can other Wolf Lord take the chariot thingo?)
Only Logan can.
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Paradigm wrote: How much are the various characters and have their abilites changed? Particulkarlky interested in Arjac, Njal and Ragnar.
All went down in price. Njal is ML3.
Ragnar looks similar rules wise but less expensive.
Theres a new ICTW Lord called Harald Deathwolf that uses the FInecast Wolflord model. Hes immune to pyromancy and fire weapons and has outflank!
Because i just realised it. Generic wolf lords have no way to get EW anymore now Bear saga has changed.
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FireWolf698 wrote: How does the ThunderWolf Calv entry look? Can you list off what the generic Wolf Lord looks like as well?
TWC now any model can take any melee weapon. They are 120pts for 2+packleader. No more limited to 1 per squad. Generic Wolf Lord didnt change much except hes a bit cheaper now when kitted out.
I'm sad to hear about the chariot only being on Logan. It'll make him unique among the LoWs at least, but at least I don't need to make yet another reincarnation of my HQ!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Mywik, I hate to grind you but I'm curious:
Our unique wargear/abilities
MoTW Wolf Standard
Wolf Tail Talisman
Wolf Tooth Necklace
FireWolf698 wrote: I'm sad to hear about the chariot only being on Logan. It'll make him unique among the LoWs at least, but at least I don't need to make yet another reincarnation of my HQ!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Mywik, I hate to grind you but I'm curious:
Our unique wargear/abilities
MoTW Wolf Standard
Wolf Tail Talisman
Wolf Tooth Necklace
What are the status of these?
You can ask whatever you want . Sitting here reading and im happy to share it with you guys.
Standart= reroll failed morale/pinning within 12". All friendly models within 6" get +1attack. Permanent. No activation needed.
MotW= Gone for GH also didnt see it anywhere else so far.
Wolf Tooth Necklace = gone
Wolf tail talisman= gone.
Gideon999 wrote: Can wolf scouts still outflank to the back table edge, and can they assault out of reserves?
No and No. They have infiltrate, move through cover and scout. Behind Enemy Lines is gone. They essentially got nerfed compared to their previous incarnation. 70pts for 5.
FireWolf698 wrote: I'm sad to hear about the chariot only being on Logan. It'll make him unique among the LoWs at least, but at least I don't need to make yet another reincarnation of my HQ!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Mywik, I hate to grind you but I'm curious:
Our unique wargear/abilities
MoTW Wolf Standard
Wolf Tail Talisman
Wolf Tooth Necklace
What are the status of these?
You can ask whatever you want . Sitting here reading and im happy to share it with you guys.
Standart= reroll failed morale/pinning within 12". All friendly models within 6" get +1attack. Permanent. No activation needed.
MotW= Gone for GH also didnt see it anywhere else so far.
Wolf Tooth Necklace = gone
Wolf tail talisman= gone.
Theres only a Wolf Amulet that confers a 4++.
you have no idea how irked I am. I am now seriously considering not buying this codex.
Long fangs got up in price (or their weapons at least). They now have split fire and cant take helfrost weapons. So theres the next nerf. Since they cant get a CML anymore Long Fang dominance should be gone .
Mywik wrote: Long fangs got up in price (or their weapons at least). They now have split fire and cant take helfrost weapons. So theres the next nerf. Since they cant get a CML anymore Long Fang dominance should be gone .
I disagree about that. CML terminator was situational at best and some serious point sink at worst. The price change in long fangs is negligible if we're losing the ability to take MoTW on units, that'll save 15 points per squad almost.
As long as each long fang still holds a heavy weapon they will keep their potency.
Feels like they're taking some of the flavour away from Space Wolves with the removal of wargear, no more Fenrisian Wovles or Wolf Guard troops, removal of special rules from Logan.
My question is around eternal warrior. Other than Logan, do characters like Arjac still have EW? Speaking of Arjac, is he an upgrade to jormal wolf guard or just terminator wolf guard (i assume they are sperate entries now) and what is his cost looking like?
Finally, what do the upgrade options for GHs look like? Can the oh so rumored plasma spam aquad become a reality?
Can you give any info on Lone Wolves, still there, what kind of options available?
Can terminators/ie models in Terminator Armor Deepstrike?
Is it true WG are split between Power Armor and Terminators?
Can squad upgrade their pack leader to have termie armor and an assault cannon?
Fenrisian wolves- anything different?
My question is around eternal warrior. Other than Logan, do characters like Arjac still have EW? Speaking of Arjac, is he an upgrade to jormal wolf guard or just terminator wolf guard (i assume they are sperate entries now) and what is his cost looking like?
Finally, what do the upgrade options for GHs look like? Can the oh so rumored plasma spam aquad become a reality?
Thanks again.
Arjac isnt EW anymore. Only EW models are Lone Wolves and logan. Arjac is 115pts and he isnt an upgrade but an IC now.
No plasma spam GH in this codex.
What? Explain that, because now I am wondering if you actually have the codex.
I know for a fact that a full GH can take 2 plasma guns and a plasma pistol. The upgraded WG character for that GH squad can almost certainly take a combi-weapon. So two PGs, one pistol, one combi-plasma. That sounds like plasma spam to me (though it may be quite expensive to field).
sturguard wrote: Can you give any info on Lone Wolves, still there, what kind of options available?
Can terminators/ie models in Terminator Armor Deepstrike?
Is it true WG are split between Power Armor and Terminators?
Can squad upgrade their pack leader to have termie armor and an assault cannon?
Fenrisian wolves- anything different?
Thanks so much.
Termis cant deepstrike. WG are now two different entries, yes.
Wolf Guard Pack leaders cant take termi heavy weapons but can be upgraded to wear termi armor.
Fenrisian Wolves didnt change much if at all.
What? Explain that, because now I am wondering if you actually have the codex.
I know for a fact that a full GH can take 2 plasma guns and a plasma pistol. The upgraded WG character for that GH squad can almost certainly take a combi-weapon. So two PGs, one pistol, one combi-plasma. That sounds like plasma spam to me (though it may be quite expensive to field).
DIdnt even read these rumours. They can take 2 special weapons if 10. 1 Plasma pistol and the termi can too. Overlooked it.
Sorry bud if i dont see everything. Im flipping through the book trying to answer all questions. Its not as easy as you may think.
My advice is to slow down then. Why rush through and give sloppy crappy answers? That stresses you out and just results in people asking more follow-up questions.
i.e. general cost, special rules, weapon & armor options
2) Is it true you can have only one Venerable with the Axe/Shield combo?
3) Are Rune Priests lvl 2 base? What point cost base? And how much is termi-armor?
4) Wolf Guard Terminator. Do they have a seperate entry,can they take single wolf claws? How much are combi-weapons?
Thanks!
Ignore any previously answered questions while I was typing this
1)Lone Wolf 20 base. Can take the same as regular WG.
2) DIdnt look into these so far sorry.
3) ml1 base. 60 pts. ML2 is 25pts.
4) Yes. Combiweapons are 5. They have a different entry. They can take 1 or 2 wolfclaws. The pair is a diferent entry in the weapons list.
sturguard wrote: Are you sure Terminators cant deep strike? Do they have a rule saying they can't as that is what prohibited them in the previous edition.
Not to be a jerk, but in the rumors thread it states for Logan:
Taking the Chariot removes the deepstriking rule (Which is granted by Termi armor) ??
Thank you for doing this, other questions that come to mind:
- did the point costs for TDA Wolf Guard gear decrease, for example are TDA Wolf guard with TH/SS feasible now?
- What are the rules for Wolf Priests now, can they still choose a unit type against they and the joined unit have PE, do they confer FNP 6+ like Ulrik does or is that his fixed Warlord trait as I presume?
sturguard wrote: Are you sure Terminators cant deep strike? Do they have a rule saying they can't as that is what prohibited them in the previous edition.
I cant find this rule so far. So a maybe but it was on an awkward spot in the old codex too so ... yeah seems they can.
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Super Newb wrote: My advice is to slow down then. Why rush through and give sloppy crappy answers? That stresses you out and just results in people asking more follow-up questions.
Jeah, still the people asking questions lets me notice the differences in some entries so it helps me too understanding the differences. You are right though. Please ask more specific questions i wont list the cost for all special weapons or all options a unit can take. Too much stress
sturguard wrote: Are you sure Terminators cant deep strike? Do they have a rule saying they can't as that is what prohibited them in the previous edition.
The printed page leak for Logan and his stormrider specifically says he cannot deep strike when using the stormrider. Which would imply that Logan can otherwise deep strike. Which would imply SWTDA could deep strike. Of course, GW isn't perfect so that could be a typo. However Drop Pods can take locator beacons when they couldn't in their last codex (Bjorn digital page entry leak). Which would lean me more towards thinking TDA can deep strike.
So that's two questionable comments by the alleged codex holder so far. Now, since we've all gotten burned at one time or another by a joker who claims to have had a codex, my suggestion still stands. Slow down codex holder and then make precise, clear comments about the codex. That way people won't be asking so many follow-up questions (and question this guys' legitimacy).
Lol, remember, everyone thinks you are awesome for doing this. It's a favor you are doing for everyone else. Take your time. Every leak is a gift. Don't treat it as a stressful job that's no fun lol
Malthor wrote: Thank you for doing this, other questions that come to mind:
- did the point costs for TDA Wolf Guard gear decrease, for example are TDA Wolf guard with TH/SS feasible now?
- What are the rules for Wolf Priests now, can they still choose a unit type against they and the joined unit have PE, do they confer FNP 6+ like Ulrik does or is that his fixed Warlord trait as I presume?
1.) TH/SS combo is 15 Pts. 3 WG with a PL are 99pts base.
2)They can still get PE against a chosen unit type. Ulric has a 12" Stubborn bubble.
Wolf priests (ulric too) have a special issue wargear called "healing balms" which confer a 6+ FNP for them and their squad.
Malthor wrote: Thank you for doing this, other questions that come to mind:
- did the point costs for TDA Wolf Guard gear decrease, for example are TDA Wolf guard with TH/SS feasible now?
- What are the rules for Wolf Priests now, can they still choose a unit type against they and the joined unit have PE, do they confer FNP 6+ like Ulrik does or is that his fixed Warlord trait as I presume?
1.) TH/SS combo is 15 Pts. 3 WG with a PL are 99pts base.
2)They can still get PE against a chosen unit type. Ulric has a 12" Stubborn bubble.
Wolf priests (ulric too) have a special issue wargear called "healing balms" which confer a 6+ FNP for them and their squad.
If Arjac is an IC now, does he take up an Elites/HQ slot now?
Arjac is Elite.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So im out for a while. Feel free to ask more questions i address them later.
For people thinking that i dont have the codex. Just leave the thread and wait for saturday if you dont believe me . Will try to answer more precise later to avoid misunderstandings.
Venerable is 25 pt upgrade from the normal dread of 95. To upgrade to the storm shield/axe I believe is 25 more so 145 for the axe/ss version, 120 for normal ven dread- both are overcosted in my opinion for what they do.
Points cost of grimnar?
Points cost of Ragnar?
What are their special rules? Living legend, high king, d3 attacks on charge?
Do long fang packs still have 5 heavy weapons?
Are there dedicated terminator squads?
What is Arjacs stateline and special rules and wargear ?
Anpu42 wrote: Thank you...Now I need to rework my Lone Wolves [CCW, MotW, Storm Shield]
I modeled my Lone wolf as a MotWTDA, while holding a imperial guard up in the air ripping him apart, I guess now hte imperial guard counts as a Thunderhammer and SS
Anpu42 wrote: Thank you...Now I need to rework my Lone Wolves [CCW, MotW, Storm Shield]
I modeled my Lone wolf as a MotWTDA, while holding a imperial guard up in the air ripping him apart, I guess now hte imperial guard counts as a Thunderhammer and SS
Mywik wrote: 4) Yes. Combiweapons are 5. They have a different entry. They can take 1 or 2 wolfclaws. The pair is a diferent entry in the weapons list.
punchdub wrote: Can you confirm these were not added to C:SW - hunter/stalker
- stormtalon
- thunderfire
These werent added.
I also just noticed that WG Terminators cant take drop pods anymore and can therefor indeed deepstrike. The separate entry for WG terminators doesnt list the option to take a drop pod.
punchdub wrote: Can you confirm these were not added to C:SW - hunter/stalker
- stormtalon
- thunderfire
These werent added.
I also just noticed that WG Terminators cant take drop pods anymore and can therefor indeed deepstrike. The separate entry for WG terminators doesnt list the option to take a drop pod.
Guess We will have to resort to Stormfang Assault Craft...Starting out on a Landing Pad
I could see them removing MotW as a basic troop choice, allowing you to only put it on Lone Wolves/Wolf lords or an actual Wulfen. I'm sads it's gone entirely
gwarsh41 wrote: Does Njal have fancy special rules that set him apart from just being an ML3 psyker?
Do runepriests have any additional rules to let them deny the witch easier?
Can lone wolves take any sort of transport?
Details on the Wolf Standard?
Thank you for doing all this! I am super sad to hear MoTW is gone, I loved it so much. Some conversions will be shelved for a while I guess.
1)Njal can reroll one failed psychic test per turn. Nightwing is assault d6 s3 ap-. He has adamantium will through his staff which also grants a DTW reroll.
2) No
3) Page1
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Kjellk wrote: Can runepriests still get a chooser of the slain?
Do wolf lords cost the same basic?
Warlord traits are randoms now right? No reroll or something like that?
Have frost weapons changed?
1) No
2)105 base
3)Page1
4) Frost sword s+1 ap3, frost axe s+2 ap2 unwieldy
Lucas is 80 and can only join boodclaws and if there is a unit of bloodclaws in the detachment he doesnt use up a slot. The same with arjac and wolfguard for 115pts. Lucas opponents have -3 WS in a challenge through the pelt instead of the old effect.
Have Skyclaws gone down in price like Swiftcaws did? And what about Bloodclaws? Did they go down in price too? If all three lost a few points they might be worth using! ^_^
Merellin wrote: Have Skyclaws gone down in price like Swiftcaws did? And what about Bloodclaws? Did they go down in price too? If all three lost a few points they might be worth using! ^_^
Merellin wrote: Have Skyclaws gone down in price like Swiftcaws did? And what about Bloodclaws? Did they go down in price too? If all three lost a few points they might be worth using! ^_^
BC: 60 for 5
SkC: 75 for 5
SC: 60 for 3
15x Blood Claws [1x Power Axe, 2x Flamer, Wolf Guard Pack Leader with Power Lance]
230 points, cheaper than my Core Grey hunters are going to cost.
10x Skyclaws [2x Flamers, 1x Power Axe, Wolf Guard Sky Leader with Power Sword]
200 points
One more question. How do you as a Space Wolfe player feel of the new codex? Rules wise and looks wise and what ever wise.
I feel like im done with sw now. Not in the sense of giving them up. See theres the new dreads (i already own 6 unused dreads) than theres the flyer (i will eventually get one) and then theres santa logan, which in my opinion doesnt look very appealing. So theres nothing left i could get for my collection after ive gotten the flyer. Nothing to work on or add or whatever that interests me. So in that sense im kinda disappointed about the lack of something really cool and new like when the TWC was released back in the day in the previous codex.
There are 4 or 5 new artworks one of them is about santa logan ... so i dont really like it.
Ruleswise i think there will be a way to make space wolves playable from a competitive perspective as well as from a fluff standpoint. Nevertheless in the latter they lost a lot of their special flavour.
At least thats my perspective now without having written a list or played a single game ... so jeah.
Ah just spotted that a twc now gives +1 wound for the model riding. So a twc lord has 4 wounds now.
Additionally runic armor now confers a 6++ instead of the old effect that only worked with psychic powers.
I know this is a broad question ,and thank you very much for answering my questions so far! 2 more quick questions.
The wolf standard, thanks for pointing out that I missed it. Is it specific to GH? Or can TWC, Claws and wolf guard bring it?
I didn't see a cost listed for the banner either. Seems like pending on the cost, it could be a good alternative to giving each GH a CC weapon for the bonus attack.
While I am peeved there is no more chooser of the slain, now I have some nice objective markers I guess.
I feel like a lot of the new books in 6th and 7th havent brought all too much to the table in way of new units. Space marines brought in a few new units/models, and Daemons got hooked up like there is no tomorrow. Everyone else seems to get maybe 1 unit and 1 big model, maybe also some models for units that didn't have models.
Really like what you are doing here for everyone but im confused - twice in my time on dakka I have been cautioned by mods and other dakkarites for asking points costs of specific things. One on the day of the ork dex release (I bought it two days later) and one on a different occasion.
A question to the mods more than the OP here: How come it is one rule for one and a different rule for everybody else?
Not that I mind this thread, in fact, I would encourage it. It just seems, no sorry, IS, double standards.
Poly Ranger wrote: Really like what you are doing here for everyone but im confused - twice in my time on dakka I have been cautioned by mods and other dakkarites for asking points costs of specific things. One on the day of the ork dex release (I bought it two days later) and one on a different occasion.
A question to the mods more than the OP here: How come it is one rule for one and a different rule for everybody else?
Not that I mind this thread, in fact, I would encourage it. It just seems, no sorry, IS, double standards.
There's a difference between asking for rules when you don't have the book (i.e. Ork codex is released and you're asking for rules) and asking for rules leaks. Basically, Dakka is not a replacement for published rules. Unpublished rules, on the other hand...
Poly Ranger wrote: Really like what you are doing here for everyone but im confused - twice in my time on dakka I have been cautioned by mods and other dakkarites for asking points costs of specific things. One on the day of the ork dex release (I bought it two days later) and one on a different occasion.
A question to the mods more than the OP here: How come it is one rule for one and a different rule for everybody else?
Not that I mind this thread, in fact, I would encourage it. It just seems, no sorry, IS, double standards.
Its probably because the codex isnt actually out yet.
Super Newb wrote: My advice is to slow down then. Why rush through and give sloppy crappy answers? That stresses you out and just results in people asking more follow-up questions.
Or maybe lower your expectations and chill out considering he doesn't have to do this at all. If you want 100% accurate info get the codex yourself
He/she has the rules. It is the exact same thing as having the dex. Timing of release makes no difference - this thread can still be viewed on the day of release for those who don't have it, giving exactly the same effect as having asked for rules on that day.
Poly Ranger wrote: He/she has the rules. It is the exact same thing as having the dex. Timing of release makes no difference - this thread can still be viewed on the day of release for those who don't have it, giving exactly the same effect as having asked for rules on that day.
No, the time of release most definitely does make a difference.
If you have a problem with your warning, PM the mod in question and ask them about it. I'm explaining why this thread is okay and your other threads weren't though.
So ask somebody who has the dex a points question the day before release = ok.
Ask somebody who has the dex a points question a day later = everybody jumps on you as if you are a criminal.
Odd rule set.
Poly Ranger wrote: So ask somebody who has the dex a points question the day before release = ok. Ask somebody who has the dex a points question a day later = everybody jumps on you as if you are a criminal. Odd rule set.
One is asking for pre-release info, because few if any people have it. One is asking for post-release info because you don't have the book and it is easily available.
Anyways, take it to PM with a mod or post in Nuts and Bolts and stop derailing this thread, please.
Poly Ranger wrote: So ask somebody who has the dex a points question the day before release = ok.
Ask somebody who has the dex a points question a day later = everybody jumps on you as if you are a criminal.
Odd rule set.
One is asking for pre-release info, because few if any people have it.
One is asking for post-release info because you don't have the book and it is easily available.
Anyways, take it to PM with a mod or post in Nuts and Bolts and stop derailing this thread, please.
This is good advice - in regards to the rules of this site and their interpretation, anyone with questions, concerns, issues etc. would be best served down in Nuts & Bolts.
Vash108 wrote: Is the FOC any different? Than say regular space marines?
Requires 2 HQ, 2 Troops, can take 6 HQ, outflanking and reroll warlord trait. It is uninspiring.
Uninspiring???
This changes how you play the whole army. It will force you and your opponent to completely rethink how you play.
Outflanking versus Ob Sec? Mostly I think it'll just be used to run some crazy hero armies with all the HQs coming from that one and a couple obsec in the main FOC.
Super Newb wrote: My advice is to slow down then. Why rush through and give sloppy crappy answers? That stresses you out and just results in people asking more follow-up questions.
Or maybe lower your expectations and chill out considering he doesn't have to do this at all. If you want 100% accurate info get the codex yourself
Lol. No, sorry. I am chill. I also thanked the person and told him he doesn't have to do this, that's it is a favor to us, mentioned again he should take his time so he shouldn't be stressed out over it. But I guess you didn't read through the thread to see that hmm? Nah, better to act all crazy defensive while ironically telling someone to chill. So props to you there, for the irony.
With that said, I also don't see the point of anyone rushing and making a lot of mistakes. Maybe you like mistakes, maybe you like are kidz 2 typ lk this 2, maybe you like Maury Povich marathons, I don't know. I know I don't. Expecting some basic reading comprehension, rather than a rush job with errors (lord knows I make plenty when I rush), ain't too much to ask.
Fun fact. Characters could join Lone Wolves now. Unless there is a rule saying you can't be joined under the LW rules 7th doesn't have the restriction for single model units like previous editions
Hulksmash wrote: Fun fact. Characters could join Lone Wolves now. Unless there is a rule saying you can't be joined under the LW rules 7th doesn't have the restriction for single model units like previous editions
Mywik wrote: Lucas is 80 and can only join boodclaws and if there is a unit of bloodclaws in the detachment he doesnt use up a slot. The same with arjac and wolfguard for 115pts. Lucas opponents have -3 WS in a challenge through the pelt instead of the old effect.
Hmmm... so have I got this right? Lukas and Arjac are both ICs that can be taken independently of an actual unit, Blood Claws and Wolf Guard Terminators respectively. If they do so they take up a slot, but if they join their respective units they do not? That's an interesting development for these two if true!
Lukas the Trickster is 80pts (Wolf Claw, Plasma Pistol and benefits) / Blood Claw (12pts), Plasma Pistol (15pts), Wolf Claw (15pts at a guess, same as a Power Weapon) so 42pts for a base model without the extra WS, Wound and rules; doesn't sound so hard to swallow at all compared to his ridiculous 140pts from 5th Edition Codex: Space Wolves, might have to consider him even if I am extremely disappointed by the fluftastic nerf to The Last Laugh, -3 WS in a challenge could certainly tie up certain ICs, as long as they don't get lucky and smush him in one, although then there is The Last Laugh.
Arjac Rockfist (115pts) / as of yet unconfirmed points for Wolf Guard Terminator, 5th Edition was as follows: Wolf Guard (18pts), TDA Upgrade (15pts), Thunder Hammer (15pts), Storm Shield (15pts) so 63pts for a base model without the extra WS, BS, Strength, Wound, Attack and extra rules. Again, much easier to swallow.
I think I only fielded these two characters once a piece, and looking at their old points I remember why!
---
Questions if you don't mind sir!
1) Can WGTDA take a Power/Chain Fist in one hand an a Wolf Claw in the other?
2) Can a WLPA take a Power Fist in one hand and a Wolf Claw in the other, (specifically when taking a Thunderwolf Mount)?
3) Points and stats for TDA Njal Stormcaller?
4) Are WGPA combi-weapons really 10pts per model? Damn.
5) Are Land Speeder Typhoons still 90pts per model? (50pts base and 40pts for the Typhoon missile launcher), hoping for a decrease!
5) Anything exciting for Iron Priests?
---
Questions for the Space Wolves players en masse, what will your preferred WGPA and WGTDA be?
All I ever see in Codex: Orks are Ork Nobs with Power Klaws in every Boyz Mob, will we have a standard on our army? Bolt Pistol and Frost Axe for WGPA / Storm Shield and Chain Fist for WGTDA?
Vash108 wrote: Is the FOC any different? Than say regular space marines?
Requires 2 HQ, 2 Troops, can take 6 HQ, outflanking and reroll warlord trait. It is uninspiring.
Uninspiring???
This changes how you play the whole army. It will force you and your opponent to completely rethink how you play.
Outflanking versus Ob Sec? Mostly I think it'll just be used to run some crazy hero armies with all the HQs coming from that one and a couple obsec in the main FOC.
To put a finer point on it:
Chance of Outflanking vs Guaranteed Objective Secured. CA is leagues better, unless you plan on HeroHammering it up with the 6 HQ slots.
Hulksmash wrote: I'm not seeing the bad codex other people are. Guess I'm just blind?
It won't play the same way it currently does but that's not a bad thing.
You're not blind. I be sticking with the old codex for a while purely for financial reasons, but there's nothing here screaming terrible. The changes to the characters seem a little harsh (no Ragnar giving tones of attacks and no EW Arjac) but the core of the codex is fine. You can now get 3 'specials' in a Drop Pod GH squad with the combi, you can save points on CCW if you're planning on staying back or fight armies that you're better off shooting (and with CA, they're still capable in assault without the extra weapon), some very nice point drops abound (Blood Claws for 12ppm and Dreads for 95 points? Hell Yeah!)
Overall, I think there's some very interesting stuff there, I look forward to eventually trying out some new tricks.
Hmmm... so have I got this right? Lukas and Arjac are both ICs that can be taken independently of an actual unit, Blood Claws and Wolf Guard Terminators respectively. If they do so they take up a slot, but if they join their respective units they do not? That's an interesting development for these two if true!
It's the same system used for Snikkrot in the Ork codex. He takes an elite slot, unless you also field a unit of Kommandos in which case he doesn't use a slot.
Hulksmash wrote: I'm not seeing the bad codex other people are. Guess I'm just blind?
It won't play the same way it currently does but that's not a bad thing.
You're not blind. I be sticking with the old codex for a while purely for financial reasons, but there's nothing here screaming terrible. The changes to the characters seem a little harsh (no Ragnar giving tones of attacks and no EW Arjac) but the core of the codex is fine. You can now get 3 'specials' in a Drop Pod GH squad with the combi, you can save points on CCW if you're planning on staying back or fight armies that you're better off shooting (and with CA, they're still capable in assault without the extra weapon), some very nice point drops abound (Blood Claws for 12ppm and Dreads for 95 points? Hell Yeah!)
Overall, I think there's some very interesting stuff there, I look forward to eventually trying out some new tricks.
Bikes are worse than vanilla Sm
Scouts are now worse than before (my favorite unit!)
Weapons more expensive and CC effectiveness reduced
Anti-psyker weaker...Though this was known to be coming.
Sagas might as well be gone
Our lords are weaker than Sm leaders.
In exchange we got a slight variance in troops (I'm not sure what the troop choice will be but at least there is a choice) and better termies, though they can't be spread out to squads anymore.
But yeah. I just hate change. It's not like I also play Nids and chaos or anything else that has suffered after recent codexes.
Hmmm... so have I got this right? Lukas and Arjac are both ICs that can be taken independently of an actual unit, Blood Claws and Wolf Guard Terminators respectively. If they do so they take up a slot, but if they join their respective units they do not? That's an interesting development for these two if true!
It's the same system used for Snikkrot in the Ork codex. He takes an elite slot, unless you also field a unit of Kommandos in which case he doesn't use a slot.
Ah cool, thanks for the confirmation. I can't imagine it would be massively helpful for Lukas but could be a potentially pricey Lone Wolf Arjac, (110 points is actually the same as a TDATH/SS Lone Wolf with Melta Bombs and two Fenrisian Wolves). I'm not saying it's a competitive choice per se but I might try it out a few times just for good measure
Akiasura wrote: Bikes are worse than vanilla Sm
Scouts are now worse than before (my favorite unit!)
Weapons more expensive and CC effectiveness reduced
Anti-psyker weaker...Though this was known to be coming.
Sagas might as well be gone
Our lords are weaker than Sm leaders.
In exchange we got a slight variance in troops (I'm not sure what the troop choice will be but at least there is a choice) and better termies, though they can't be spread out to squads anymore.
Bikes are cheaper than SM for BC bikers and more expensive (25 pts) but much better for WG Bikers.
We haven't seen the cost pages for Weapons yet, so I can't speak to this, but this just brings them in line.
Anti-psyker was a known quantity.
Sagas are different now and I agree are less powerful.
That last one just seems incorrect. We haven't seen pretty much anything for lords yet.
Also, you're wrong about termies in squads, we can still do that.
Hmmm... so have I got this right? Lukas and Arjac are both ICs that can be taken independently of an actual unit, Blood Claws and Wolf Guard Terminators respectively. If they do so they take up a slot, but if they join their respective units they do not? That's an interesting development for these two if true!
It's the same system used for Snikkrot in the Ork codex. He takes an elite slot, unless you also field a unit of Kommandos in which case he doesn't use a slot.
Ah cool, thanks for the confirmation. I can't imagine it would be massively helpful for Lukas but could be a potentially pricey Lone Wolf Arjac, (110 points is actually the same as a TDATH/SS Lone Wolf with Melta Bombs and two Fenrisian Wolves). I'm not saying it's a competitive choice per se but I might try it out a few times just for good measure
For funsies, you could attach Arjac to a Lone Wolf. Also, Arjac can attach to allies now, which may be interesting.
Hulksmash wrote: I'm not seeing the bad codex other people are. Guess I'm just blind?
It won't play the same way it currently does but that's not a bad thing.
You're not blind. I be sticking with the old codex for a while purely for financial reasons, but there's nothing here screaming terrible. The changes to the characters seem a little harsh (no Ragnar giving tones of attacks and no EW Arjac) but the core of the codex is fine. You can now get 3 'specials' in a Drop Pod GH squad with the combi, you can save points on CCW if you're planning on staying back or fight armies that you're better off shooting (and with CA, they're still capable in assault without the extra weapon), some very nice point drops abound (Blood Claws for 12ppm and Dreads for 95 points? Hell Yeah!)
Overall, I think there's some very interesting stuff there, I look forward to eventually trying out some new tricks.
Bikes are worse than vanilla Sm
Scouts are now worse than before (my favorite unit!)
Weapons more expensive and CC effectiveness reduced
Anti-psyker weaker...Though this was known to be coming.
Sagas might as well be gone
Our lords are weaker than Sm leaders.
In exchange we got a slight variance in troops (I'm not sure what the troop choice will be but at least there is a choice) and better termies, though they can't be spread out to squads anymore.
But yeah. I just hate change. It's not like I also play Nids and chaos or anything else that has suffered after recent codexes.
The Swiftclaws perform a totally different role to their SM counterparts, the only similarity is that they both use bikes. A points drop is what they needed, and what they got. Can't complain.
Scouts are worse but cheaper, and can still work well as melta/plasma delivery system.
The CC effectiveness of GH has been reduced per point, but say hello to 12-point Blood Claws, the cheapest MEQ in the game and spitting out 4 attacks on the charge! They also no longer need babysitting.
Anti-psyker is a very tricky area in 7th, the only counter to mass psychic is your own mass psychic, and only Eldar, Demons and GK. Go up against a psyker-spam list with anything less than half a dozen of your own and you're losing in that phase. On a unit-by-unit basis, our Priests get Adamantium Will, making them better than most SM psykers.
Sagas are a hit, I'll grant you.
Our lords are weaker than SM Chapter Masters because they're not Chapter Masters, they're Captain equivalents and given that they can get Thunderwolves, I think they're still in good stead to kick some heads in. Making them as good as a Chapter Master makes no sense fluff or rules-wise.
If you think the change is unwarranted, though, see if you can keep using the old dex. Some opponents might be good with it if you're playing casual, so it's worth a shot.
Mywik wrote: Lucas is 80 and can only join boodclaws and if there is a unit of bloodclaws in the detachment he doesnt use up a slot. The same with arjac and wolfguard for 115pts. Lucas opponents have -3 WS in a challenge through the pelt instead of the old effect.
Hmmm... so have I got this right? Lukas and Arjac are both ICs that can be taken independently of an actual unit, Blood Claws and Wolf Guard Terminators respectively. If they do so they take up a slot, but if they join their respective units they do not? That's an interesting development for these two if true!
1) Can WGTDA take a Power/Chain Fist in one hand an a Wolf Claw in the other?
2) Can a WLPA take a Power Fist in one hand and a Wolf Claw in the other, (specifically when taking a Thunderwolf Mount)?
3) Points and stats for TDA Njal Stormcaller?
4) Are WGPA combi-weapons really 10pts per model? Damn.
5) Are Land Speeder Typhoons still 90pts per model? (50pts base and 40pts for the Typhoon missile launcher), hoping for a decrease!
5) Anything exciting for Iron Priests?
They can never join units other than their respective "home" units. If you include them in your detachment and have one of these units too they dont take a foc slot.
1) Yes they can
2) Yes they can (although it is the old "replace with one of the following" thing ... so maybe debatable
3)TDA Njal is 180pts
4)Yes, they are
5)50pts base +25 for the ML 6) No
Runepriests DIsciplines:
Biomancy, Daemonology, Divination, Telekinesis and Tempestas
Whats the deal with Wolf Claws for Dreads? Just normal Wolf Cla rules (S as user, AP 3, re-roll hit or wound)? That would really suck for a payable upgrade.
Ragnar69 wrote: Whats the deal with Wolf Claws for Dreads? Just normal Wolf Cla rules (S as user, AP 3, re-roll hit or wound)? That would really suck for a payable upgrade.
Great Wolf Claw - sx2 ap2 -shred, specialist weapon.
Hulksmash wrote: I'm not seeing the bad codex other people are. Guess I'm just blind?
It won't play the same way it currently does but that's not a bad thing.
You're not blind. I be sticking with the old codex for a while purely for financial reasons, but there's nothing here screaming terrible. The changes to the characters seem a little harsh (no Ragnar giving tones of attacks and no EW Arjac) but the core of the codex is fine. You can now get 3 'specials' in a Drop Pod GH squad with the combi, you can save points on CCW if you're planning on staying back or fight armies that you're better off shooting (and with CA, they're still capable in assault without the extra weapon), some very nice point drops abound (Blood Claws for 12ppm and Dreads for 95 points? Hell Yeah!)
Overall, I think there's some very interesting stuff there, I look forward to eventually trying out some new tricks.
Bikes are worse than vanilla Sm
Scouts are now worse than before (my favorite unit!)
Weapons more expensive and CC effectiveness reduced
Anti-psyker weaker...Though this was known to be coming.
Sagas might as well be gone
Our lords are weaker than Sm leaders.
In exchange we got a slight variance in troops (I'm not sure what the troop choice will be but at least there is a choice) and better termies, though they can't be spread out to squads anymore.
But yeah. I just hate change. It's not like I also play Nids and chaos or anything else that has suffered after recent codexes.
The Swiftclaws perform a totally different role to their SM counterparts, the only similarity is that they both use bikes. A points drop is what they needed, and what they got. Can't complain.
Scouts are worse but cheaper, and can still work well as melta/plasma delivery system.
The CC effectiveness of GH has been reduced per point, but say hello to 12-point Blood Claws, the cheapest MEQ in the game and spitting out 4 attacks on the charge! They also no longer need babysitting.
Anti-psyker is a very tricky area in 7th, the only counter to mass psychic is your own mass psychic, and only Eldar, Demons and GK. Go up against a psyker-spam list with anything less than half a dozen of your own and you're losing in that phase. On a unit-by-unit basis, our Priests get Adamantium Will, making them better than most SM psykers.
Sagas are a hit, I'll grant you.
Our lords are weaker than SM Chapter Masters because they're not Chapter Masters, they're Captain equivalents and given that they can get Thunderwolves, I think they're still in good stead to kick some heads in. Making them as good as a Chapter Master makes no sense fluff or rules-wise.
If you think the change is unwarranted, though, see if you can keep using the old dex. Some opponents might be good with it if you're playing casual, so it's worth a shot.
Swift claws perform a different role, true, which is that of a CC focus. Playing chaos though has taught me that CC bikes are mediocre at best. You really want them for quick shooting on a tough platform. You can charge them after rapid firing a unit, which is nice. I'm not sure if anyone will take WG bikes since they'll be very expensive when compared to other armies.
Weapon costs were listed. 5/10/15 no longer free special. This makes grey hunters more expensive for squads and with less melee punch due to other changes.
I thought I saw that WG can no longer be handed out to other squads. If this is no longer the case that is indeed nice as I always loved that ability for us and wish chaos had it.
Fluff is fluff. If fluff were rules a khorne juggerlord would destroy a space marine on a bike, but the opposite is true. Wolves have an alright melee option without sagas. I'm glad the wolves add another wound, that'll help, but I'm not sure how good TWC will end up being.
Blood Claws are cheaper, 2 points less than other marines without chapter tactics and weaker stats. Better, but let's not pretend they are great. I can see them being taken with certain IC though (looking at you Ragnar) but they fail at the primary role of marines.
Scouts seem weaker now, and I don't think cheaper points will help enough to make them taken. We'll see though how it pans out.
This is a bit off topic, but why are so many weapons referred to as wolf claws? Wolves don't really use their claws to attack, that's more of a feline thing.
Akiasura wrote: I thought I saw that WG can no longer be handed out to other squads. If this is no longer the case that is indeed nice as I always loved that ability for us and wish chaos had it.
This is why it is important to see the whole picture first...
WG aren't handed out, but pretty much every squad can upgrade to a WG for about 10 points and that gets them access to all the WG wargear. They can also take TDA in most squads as well.
Akiasura wrote: I thought I saw that WG can no longer be handed out to other squads. If this is no longer the case that is indeed nice as I always loved that ability for us and wish chaos had it.
This is why it is important to see the whole picture first...
WG aren't handed out, but pretty much every squad can upgrade to a WG for about 10 points and that gets them access to all the WG wargear. They can also take TDA in most squads as well.
Only thing that is really different now is that you cant get a WGPL that is equipped with a termi heavy weapon. But thats about it. The new way to deliver WG to squads is easier to understand for your opponent when he reviews your list and isnt familiar. Im fine with that change.
Rune priests are 60 base with ml1 and ml2 costs 25pts.
Psychic Powers:
Primaris:
Living Lightning
Witchpower 1WC
18" s7 ap - Assault3, Shock
Shock = each hit 6 generates 2 additional hits
Storm caller
Blessing 1WC
Target Unit gets shrouding
Tempests Wrath
Malediction 1 WC Target unit gets -1 BS and is in difficult terrain additionally has to take dangerous terrain test (i assume that because the book says it has to take a "dangerous test" )
Fury of the Wolf spirits
Witchfire 2 WC Freki: 18" s6 ap- assault 4
Geri: 18" s5 ap2 assault 2, Precision Shot
Jaws of the World Wolf:
Focused Witchpower 2WC
Target non vehicle unit within 18". Model hit has to pass ini test or removed from play. Monstrous creatures auto pass the test.
Akiasura wrote: I thought I saw that WG can no longer be handed out to other squads. If this is no longer the case that is indeed nice as I always loved that ability for us and wish chaos had it.
This is why it is important to see the whole picture first...
WG aren't handed out, but pretty much every squad can upgrade to a WG for about 10 points and that gets them access to all the WG wargear. They can also take TDA in most squads as well.
Having never ever played SW before, a day deciding this would be my first space wolves army, the rules changes don't bother me all that much. I'm already thinking of some good combos and personally I can't wait for my book to arrive. I still think they can be quite competitive they're just not as beat face as before.
When the 5th ed Dex dropped, EVERYONE bought space wolves. Including a friend of mine. And they weren't fun for me as it was pretty much an instant win for him. For me they have taken a hefty beefing, but I kinda welcome it. I'm hoping it means the whole world won't be building a new SW army with me.
And to the Op, thanks for this. Epic thread, and I'm sure everyone appreciates it.
Got a few little questions.
1) do long fangs have access to special as well as heavy weapons and are they normal points cost?
2) can WG take any melee weapons? And what's the minimum squad size for PAWG? Can I take 5 on bikes all with axes and claws? Or PF and claw combos?
pretre wrote: Shrouding isn't invisibility though. Invis is crazy good.
How much are rune priests?
60 for ml1 85 for ml2
Holy crap that's cheap.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Akiasura wrote: Swift claws perform a different role, true, which is that of a CC focus. Playing chaos though has taught me that CC bikes are mediocre at best. You really want them for quick shooting on a tough platform. You can charge them after rapid firing a unit, which is nice. I'm not sure if anyone will take WG bikes since they'll be very expensive when compared to other armies.
WG bikes vs Troop bikes are more expensive, but WG bikes are more comparable to command squads, etc.
Weapon costs were listed. 5/10/15 no longer free special. This makes grey hunters more expensive for squads and with less melee punch due to other changes.
Sure.
Fluff is fluff. If fluff were rules a khorne juggerlord would destroy a space marine on a bike, but the opposite is true. Wolves have an alright melee option without sagas. I'm glad the wolves add another wound, that'll help, but I'm not sure how good TWC will end up being.
A lot of this is wait and see.
Blood Claws are cheaper, 2 points less than other marines without chapter tactics and weaker stats. Better, but let's not pretend they are great. I can see them being taken with certain IC though (looking at you Ragnar) but they fail at the primary role of marines.
Wolf Priests as well will probably be a good fit.
Scouts seem weaker now, and I don't think cheaper points will help enough to make them taken. We'll see though how it pans out.
Yeah, I don't see WS being that viable right now.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Khaine's Wrath wrote: 2) can WG take any melee weapons? And what's the minimum squad size for PAWG? Can I take 5 on bikes all with axes and claws? Or PF and claw combos?
4) Are WGPA combi-weapons really 10pts per model? Damn.
4)Yes, they are
So, am I missing something? That's PAWG for 10 points.
Well before they were 18 points, 5 points upgrade for combi-weapion so 23 points.
Now they are 18 points, 10 points for combi at 28
OR
14 points for GH, 10 points to upgrade to WG pack leader, 10 points for combi-weapon, so 34 points.
4) Are WGPA combi-weapons really 10pts per model? Damn.
4)Yes, they are
So, am I missing something? That's PAWG for 10 points.
Its a Wolf Guard in Power Armour at 18pts per model with a combi-weapon for an additional 10pts so 28pts total.
In the old Codex it was 18pts for the Wolf Guard in Power Armour and 5pts for a combi-weapon so 23pts total.
HOWEVER, as is apparently the case for all Wolf Guard x Leaders in this new Codex you pay for the upgrade instead of simply plonking one of your split up WG units so, (in the case of Grey Hunters at least), the upgrade is 15pts and then the comb-weapon is 10pts, so effectively 25pts total, not 28pts; every little helps!
P.S. Clearly I'm not angry about the points increase, was just a nice to have a 10 man WG unit, all in PA with combi-plasmas for 230pts + 35 for the Drop Pod, now it's 280pts + 35, (315 up from 265).
And to the Op, thanks for this. Epic thread, and I'm sure everyone appreciates it.
Got a few little questions.
1) do long fangs have access to special as well as heavy weapons and are they normal points cost?
2) can WG take any melee weapons? And what's the minimum squad size for PAWG? Can I take 5 on bikes all with axes and claws? Or PF and claw combos?
Thanks. Was lucky to get my hands on the copy today so i thought i'd share. Always appreciated it when others did these threads in the past.
Your questions:
1)Long Fangs can only take Heavy Weapons. Weapon costs: HB 10, MM 10, ML 15, PC 15, LC 20
2)They can. Minimum size for PAWG is 4 WG+1 Pack leader. Yes to both.
HOWEVER, as is apparently the case for all Wolf Guard x Leaders in this new Codex you pay for the upgrade instead of simply plonking one of your split up WG units so, (in the case of Grey Hunters at least), the upgrade is 15pts and then the comb-weapon is 10pts, so effectively 25pts total, not 28pts; every little helps!
WG Squads come with the WGPL you dont have to pay for the upgrade. So its 90p for 4+WGPL
HOWEVER, as is apparently the case for all Wolf Guard x Leaders in this new Codex you pay for the upgrade instead of simply plonking one of your split up WG units so, (in the case of Grey Hunters at least), the upgrade is 15pts and then the comb-weapon is 10pts, so effectively 25pts total, not 28pts; every little helps!
It is not 100% clear, but I am more than 95% sure the Spanish leaked page says 10 points to upgrade a GH to a WG pack leader. The guy translating it agreed with me but I am not sure if he went back and corrected his original translation.
WallaceMerrett wrote: 1) Can WGTDA take a Power/Chain Fist in one hand an a Wolf Claw in the other?
2) Can a WLPA take a Power Fist in one hand and a Wolf Claw in the other, (specifically when taking a Thunderwolf Mount)?
3) Points and stats for TDA Njal Stormcaller?
4) Are WGPA combi-weapons really 10pts per model? Damn.
5) Are Land Speeder Typhoons still 90pts per model? (50pts base and 40pts for the Typhoon missile launcher), hoping for a decrease!
5) Anything exciting for Iron Priests?
1) Yes they can
2) Yes they can (although it is the old "replace with one of the following" thing ... so maybe debatable
3)TDA Njal is 180pts
4)Yes, they are
5)50pts base +25 for the ML 6) No
Runepriests DIsciplines:
Biomancy, Daemonology, Divination, Telekinesis and Tempestas
Thanks dude, I know I'm not the only one to say it but you've made a lot of my models happy right there! I'll keep an eye out for the exact wording but if its "may replace his bolt pistol and/or his close combat weapon with..." I always take that to mean he can choose any items from the list for either/or, and if "a Wolf Claw" is listed in lieu of "a pair of Wolf Claws" then my beastly Thunderlord with Power Fist and Wolf Claw could not be happier... you know, apart from the whole Instant Death at (5th Edition) 290pts. Still... 30pts of that was Saga of the Bear and another 5pts a Wolf Tail Tailsman so down to 255 already. With a few more reductions, (do we know the base cost of a Wolf Lord yet?), he might be back in contention for my Warlord... This guy and Harald Deathwolf with a pack of TWC each, outflanking... PREPARE THE CHEESE GRATER!
Kudos to GW for leaving that in, out of all the things I've seen to be de-wolfed, I expected being able to take two different specialist weapons, (i.e. not a pair of Wolf Claws), to be completely removed. I still think its pure cheese, but it's my cheese!
HeavyMetalMan wrote: 1. How much are upgrades for Thunderwolves, i.e. SS, TH, PF, etc? Also I can't remember if you said it but are they 40ppm now?
2. Also how much is a Thunderwolf wargear option for ICs and do they still give +1 str, +1 T, and +1 atk?
And thank you very much for taking the time to do this.
1) They take items from the melee weapon list as others. So points are the same for WG for example. PW 15, SS 15, FrostSword 20, PF 25, TH 30, Wolf Claw 20, 2x Wolfclaw 30.
2)TW for a lord is 50pts.Increases S,T,A and *drumroll* Wounds!!!!
Pretty excited about most of what I'm reading. Seems like some nerfs but between the changes and point drops, it'll probably gonna make a lot stronger codex overall. More balanced units anyways, I wont want to just spam grey hunters. Weapon costs for WG / LW's and the Blood claw changes are pretty big to me. WG in skyclaws now is really nice.
That outflank FoC seems really stong, run double force org with most stuff in the regular CaD with objective secured. I don't really have a prob taking the 3 HQ's that doing both FoC's would require. Only thing is I'd have to take like 2 units of melta suicide scouts in the outflanking detachment then I could outflank like melta dreads or any dread, bikes maybe, vindicators even. Keep my bulk troops in the Obj Secured FoC. I dunno seems really strong to be able to outflank as many hard hitting short ranged shooting units as you want really. A lot of stuff still has acute senses as well unless that changed. I probably wouldn't give up obj secured on my troops for it, but for a lot of non troop units it could be really solid. I don't really see having to take 3 hq's and 2 outflanking suicide melta units as being that much of a tax.
As for a question, can Hq's other then Wolflords take the TW mount? Like the wolf priest specifically.
Woo. That's a big drop on SS price for TWC. Basically, for 5 points more than before they get a 3++ (55 pt TWC with SS). Frost sword is cheaper too and double wolf claw is brand new.
Thanks dude, I know I'm not the only one to say it but you've made a lot of my models happy right there! I'll keep an eye out for the exact wording but if its "may replace his bolt pistol and/or his close combat weapon with..." I always take that to mean he can choose any items from the list for either/or, and if "a Wolf Claw" is listed in lieu of "a pair of Wolf Claws" then my beastly Thunderlord with Power Fist and Wolf Claw could not be happier... you know, apart from the whole Instant Death at (5th Edition) 290pts. Still... 30pts of that was Saga of the Bear and another 5pts a Wolf Tail Tailsman so down to 255 already. With a few more reductions, (do we know the base cost of a Wolf Lord yet?), he might be back in contention for my Warlord... This guy and Harald Deathwolf with a pack of TWC each, outflanking... PREPARE THE CHEESE GRATER!
Kudos to GW for leaving that in, out of all the things I've seen to be de-wolfed, I expected being able to take two different specialist weapons, (i.e. not a pair of Wolf Claws), to be completely removed. I still think its pure cheese, but it's my cheese!
Thats the exact wording. And yes theres Wolf Claw and Pair of Wolf Claws. I listed exact PW prices above. Base Wolflord is 105.
Tell me a WL Config and i tell you what it costs now.
So I'm probably putting my head out on a block with this one, but for a ML2 Psyker these two could be good, if a little situational. 5+ Cover for 1 Warp Charge and a Large Blast wounding marines on 4s, AP2 on 6s isn't to be snuffed at at 1 Warp Charge either... you know unless your opponent has more dice.
Has it been confirmed whether or not Rune Priests can choose powers from Tempestas, or roll as standard? Because yeah... the others are not exciting in the least.
QUESTION! Is Njal Stormcaller old school like in 5th? i.e. does he know all of the Tempestas spells? If so, you could take him and a ML2 Rune Priest just to buff his dice and then choose as you see fit, no? A long shot, but something that always made me like Njal both fluff and ruleswise (knowing all the SW spells that is).
HeavyMetalMan wrote: 1. How much are upgrades for Thunderwolves, i.e. SS, TH, PF, etc? Also I can't remember if you said it but are they 40ppm now?
2. Also how much is a Thunderwolf wargear option for ICs and do they still give +1 str, +1 T, and +1 atk?
And thank you very much for taking the time to do this.
1) They take items from the melee weapon list as others. So points are the same for WG for example. PW 15, SS 15, FrostSword 20, PF 25, TH 30, Wolf Claw 20, 2x Wolfclaw 30.
2)TW for a lord is 50pts.Increases S,T,A and *drumroll* Wounds!!!!
Woot! +1 wound is fantastic!
1. What is the point cost for Ragnar Blackmane and Ulrik?
2. Also what did they change about Ragnar's rules?
3. What is the base cost of a Wolf Lord and Wolf Priest?
4. Do you have to buy a Wolf Amulet(4++) for the Wolf Lord or does he come with one like Marine Captains?
Outflank, immune to fire weapons and pyromancy. All cavalry and beast models within 12" use his LS. Has auto "saga of the wolfkin" which makes beasts and cavalry within 12" stubborn and get furious charge.
WG not getting to equip Terminator heavy weapons is long over due. This seems to be the last step away from the cheese that started when they could get both a cyclone ML and a assault cannon. Was that 3rd Ed? /shiver
Mywik wrote: 1) They take items from the melee weapon list as others. So points are the same for WG for example. PW 15, SS 15, FrostSword 20, PF 25, TH 30, Wolf Claw 20, 2x Wolfclaw 30.
Lord Lorne Walkier wrote: WG not getting to equip Terminator heavy weapons is long over due. This seems to be the last step away from the cheese that started when they could get both a cyclone ML and a assault cannon. Was that 3rd Ed? /shiver
pretre wrote: For 190, that's not bad. TWC with Furious Charge is hilarious.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Holy Crap, the Iron Priest is an Elite TWCIC now? That's awesome.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is the Iron Priest still 50 for Artificer Armor and a Thunder Hammer? Because that's an auto-include.
The iron priest is 55 base and comes equipped with a TH and Runic armor. Iron Priest on TWC is 105 points. And now he gets a second wound from the twc so hes a viable bullet shield now.
QUESTION! Is Njal Stormcaller old school like in 5th? i.e. does he know all of the Tempestas spells? If so, you could take him and a ML2 Rune Priest just to buff his dice and then choose as you see fit, no? A long shot, but something that always made me like Njal both fluff and ruleswise (knowing all the SW spells that is).
Sadly he has to roll for powers. He doesnt auto know all of them. I listed some details earlier check my post history. Hes not as fluffy as in 5th sadly.
pretre wrote: Holy crap. If you're right about IP being IC, they are great for all kinds of uses including TWC. Forget PAWG, put an iron priest in the unit...
I can confirm that they are indeed ICs. Triple checked it
Thanks dude, I know I'm not the only one to say it but you've made a lot of my models happy right there! I'll keep an eye out for the exact wording but if its "may replace his bolt pistol and/or his close combat weapon with..." I always take that to mean he can choose any items from the list for either/or, and if "a Wolf Claw" is listed in lieu of "a pair of Wolf Claws" then my beastly Thunderlord with Power Fist and Wolf Claw could not be happier... you know, apart from the whole Instant Death at (5th Edition) 290pts. Still... 30pts of that was Saga of the Bear and another 5pts a Wolf Tail Tailsman so down to 255 already. With a few more reductions, (do we know the base cost of a Wolf Lord yet?), he might be back in contention for my Warlord... This guy and Harald Deathwolf with a pack of TWC each, outflanking... PREPARE THE CHEESE GRATER!
Kudos to GW for leaving that in, out of all the things I've seen to be de-wolfed, I expected being able to take two different specialist weapons, (i.e. not a pair of Wolf Claws), to be completely removed. I still think its pure cheese, but it's my cheese!
Thats the exact wording. And yes theres Wolf Claw and Pair of Wolf Claws. I listed exact PW prices above. Base Wolflord is 105.
Tell me a WL Config and i tell you what it costs now.
Wow those weapon costs are really cool for Thunderwolf Cavalry, Storm Shields have halved from 30 to 15 and I have every one of mine equipped with one; Thunder Hammer stays the same which drops a unit of 5 TWC with one TH/SS and the rest CCW/SS from 430pts to 355pts (if they are still 50pts base?) Might have to consider throwing some PW on those bad boys though, 15 points to jump from S5 AP- to S5 AP3 (Power Sword) or even 20pts S6 AP3 (Frost Sword) is no joke!
That being said, those weapon costs are astronomical for Wolf Guard Terminators unless I've missed something...
A unit of 5 WGTDA with 4 SB, 1 AC and 5 WC used to run 220pts, now they're looking to be 295pts based on 5pts for a Wolf Claw in 5th versus 20pts in 7th!. 5 WGTDA with 5 TH and 5 SS and a CML was 345pts, now they're looking at 420 with the jump on Thunder Hammers from 15pts to 30pts. Straight up 10 WC (Pairs of Wolf Claws) used to run the cheapest at 215pts, now 315pts! ...Ouch.
pretre wrote: Holy crap. If you're right about IP being IC, they are great for all kinds of uses including TWC. Forget PAWG, put an iron priest in the unit...
I can confirm that they are indeed ICs. Triple checked it
That's crazy good for everything.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Terminator costs are different.
1. What is the point cost for Ragnar Blackmane and Ulrik?
2. Also what did they change about Ragnar's rules?
3. What is the base cost of a Wolf Lord and Wolf Priest?
4. Do you have to buy a Wolf Amulet(4++) for the Wolf Lord or does he come with one like Marine Captains?
1. Ragnar:195, ulrik 145
2.)Rage, Insane bravado= has to issue and accept challenges, rerolls 1 saving throw each phase, has 4++ from belt of russ, War howl = furious charge for all space wolves in his unit, weapon is s+1 ap3, rending, master crafted
3)WL 105, WP 110
4) He comes with a wolf amulet
Spellbound wrote: As a chaos player, I'm glad they lost the necklace, the talisman, and the mark of the wulfen. How's it FEEL?!
Questions about the wolf standard though:
X) Is it models within 6", or units within 6"?
Y) Is there any particular wording that keeps the +1 attack buff from stacking multiple times?
Z) Can only Grey Hunters take it? Any limits per army?
Doesnt feel that bad since these goodies did cost a lot of points that are now free for other stuff.
x) Exact wording: Any friendly units with the Space Wolves Faction within 12" of the model bearing this banner re-roll failed Morale checks and Pinning tests. In addition, all models in friendly units with the space wolves faction within 6" of the bearer gain +1 attack.
y)see above.
z) Only grey hunters and theres 1 per detachment allowed.
Oh my god gw and sprinkling the rules pieces all over the whole book. Why the one per army limit is listed in the GH entry but not in the standarts entry is beyond me tbh.
Wow those weapon costs are really cool for Thunderwolf Cavalry, Storm Shields have halved from 30 to 15 and I have every one of mine equipped with one; Thunder Hammer stays the same which drops a unit of 5 TWC with one TH/SS and the rest CCW/SS from 430pts to 355pts (if they are still 50pts base?
Rumor is they are 40 points base now. Don't know if that is confirmed though
4. Do you have to buy a Wolf Amulet (4++) for the Wolf Lord or does he come with one like Marine Captains?
4) He comes with a Wolf Amulet
Oh wow, well if a Wolf Lord is now 105pts basic with a 4++, over 130pts from 5th (100pts Wolf Lord, 30pts Belt of Russ), then my Thunderlord is even happier!
I wasn't all doom and gloom anyway, but little nuggets like that one are starting to build my excitement back up again!
Models with a Thunderwolf Mount change their unit type to cavalry. All close combat attacks made by a model with a thunderwolf mount have the rending special rule. In addition a model upgraded to have a thunderwolf mount increases their s, t, a and w by 1.
Do i see that right and does that say that if you equip it with say a power sword you would have s: user ap3 rending? Or am i missing something. The restriction is just not there.
Thank you guys for asking those questions. Wouldve overlooked a lot of stuff if i wasnt answering your questions!
Models with a Thunderwolf Mount change their unit type to cavalry. All close combat attacks made by a model with a thunderwolf mount have the rending special rule. In addition a model upgraded to have a thunderwolf mount increases their s, t, a and w by 1.
Do i see that right and does that say that if you equip it with say a power sword you would have s: user ap3 rending? Or am i missing something. The restriction is just not there
Thank you guys for asking those questions. Wouldve overlooked a lot of stuff if i wasnt answering your questions!
I would expect it to be FAQ'd, if they hadn't made it so abundantly clear... the loss of Rending on a base CCW was about the only reason to not look at throwing swords on these boys, but now its's under serious contention.
Thanks for answering all these questions more dude, in a completely anal way I am looking forward to updating my Army Excel workbook and comparing side by side...
Chapter Master is 130 with a "free invul" and an extra wound and has orbital bombardment and the rule of mounted assault- so they aren't really that good.
Is the Wolf Claw really 20 for one for Terminator Wolf Guard- they used to be a +5 pt upgrade, I can't imagine they would quadruple the cost?
Chapter Master is 130 with a "free invul" and an extra wound and has orbital bombardment and the rule of mounted assault- so they aren't really that good.
Is the Wolf Claw really 20 for one for Terminator Wolf Guard- they used to be a +5 pt upgrade, I can't imagine they would quadruple the cost?
Because they massively increased the cost on basic Lightning Claws for other armies as well
Lord Lorne Walkier wrote: WG not getting to equip Terminator heavy weapons is long over due. This seems to be the last step away from the cheese that started when they could get both a cyclone ML and a assault cannon. Was that 3rd Ed? /shiver
2nd
Wait, what? Hopefully I'm misunderstanding this. Space Wolves no longer have access to Cyclone Missile Launchers and Assault Cannons on Terminators? Or are Wolf Guard Terminators their own unit entry now?
Lord Lorne Walkier wrote: WG not getting to equip Terminator heavy weapons is long over due. This seems to be the last step away from the cheese that started when they could get both a cyclone ML and a assault cannon. Was that 3rd Ed? /shiver
2nd
Wait, what? Hopefully I'm misunderstanding this. Space Wolves no longer have access to Cyclone Missile Launchers and Assault Cannons on Terminators? Or are Wolf Guard Terminators their own unit entry now?
Yes They are separate Units now.
My question is what are the sizes of both Wolf Guard. Are they still 3-10 or are they 5-10 now.
Are Iron Priests LD8 like Codex: Space Marine's Techmarines, or are they LD9?
So far, it looks like a lot of it is C:SM for weapon/upgrade costs, and 5pt cheaper Rune Priests and Dreadnoughts. Rune Priests trade access to more Psychic Trees for Adamantium will, I suppose, though...
Gives them a 4+ Deny the Witch when they get casted on (baseline) though, so I suppose that's alright.
Points cost of grimnar?
Points cost of Ragnar?
What are their special rules? Living legend, high king, d3 attacks on charge?
Do long fang packs still have 5 heavy weapons?
Are there dedicated terminator squads?
What is Arjacs stateline and special rules and wargear ?
If there is no mention of the 13 co and motw gone...what gives? This straight up space Viking crap now? Think there's a supplement in the works? And if no mention of 13 co what about the blank rune on the table
Kal-El wrote: If there is no mention of the 13 co and motw gone...what gives? This straight up space Viking crap now? Think there's a supplement in the works? And if no mention of 13 co what about the blank rune on the table
They must be mentioned, as this is supposedly from the codex...
It's a shame they don't have rules, but 13th company have never had rules in the codex so it's nothing exceptional that they still don't.
I have to say I do not like the Pack leader upgrade. At first I thought I would as you could take 10 GHs get 2 meltas and the ldr 9 WG- however you sacrifice too much for that 1 meltagun.
First, your WGPL are now more expensive, they used to be 18 or 33 pts in Termie armor. Now you effectively pay 18 for the GH, 10 to upgrade (so 28 for a WG in power armor) and 10 more for Termie armor for 38 pts. Also, you could use all those pack leaders to build up and get some heavy weapons. So I could take a unit of 10 WG, keep 5 together as termies, put 5 as pack leaders and have 2 with heavy weapons I could allocate. This certainly wasn't broken or cheesy as you were spending hundreds of points to end up with 2 very expensive CML models (63 pts each). Now, on top of paying more for every pack leader you then have to purchase 10 more Terminator WG to every get 2 heavy weapons, which won't happen as they are too much of an investment. Man, GW really didn't want us to be able to shoot anything larger than a bolter. Do you think they have ever read the Horus Heresy novels?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Pretre- you mentioned cheaper Fenrisian wolves- I dont see that, it says 8 pts each, which is what they currently are, unless you are referencing something else.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As far as Harad goes, why would you want to outflank him? His unit cant shoot when they enter and he loses the benefit of making other cav units around him stubborn and at his leadership value. Also, you want your TWC to attract fire and take the heat off your other units, rather than them coming in piecemeal. Personally for 200 pts you can get a bog standard TWCL with stormshield and pfist. I would much rather have the ability to one punch enemies and have them strike last the next combat round than hit them with ap3 and wound on 3's and 4's for bigger guys.
Why would you put TWC with a bike unit, you slow them down and they can't turbo boost. If anything I would guess they would be better with Skyclaws as both can move 12, although the claws arent fleet so you wouldnt reroll charge range if the claws moved 12 inches during the movement phase. No, TWC are best with TWC or put him with a unit of blood claws in a Landraider, I would think they are extremely bulking and take up 5 spots?
sturguard wrote: Why would you put TWC with a bike unit, you slow them down and they can't turbo boost. If anything I would guess they would be better with Skyclaws as both can move 12, although the claws arent fleet so you wouldnt reroll charge range if the claws moved 12 inches during the movement phase. No, TWC are best with TWC or put him with a unit of blood claws in a Landraider, I would think they are extremely bulking and take up 5 spots?
Some of us never Turbo-Boost?
I would love to take Harald and a bunch of Wolf Guard Bikers and outflank with them.
What interest me more is putting a Wolf Priest or Rune Priest with my TWC.
So Lukas the Trickster was 15 points a bloodclaw +140. 155 total.
I think I read that you said he is now only 80 points right?
His pelt has changed I think for the better but does he still have the last laugh?
If they didn't take away anything I think he could be fun to field now.
isch2929 wrote: So Lukas the Trickster was 15 points a bloodclaw +140. 155 total. I think I read that you said he is now only 80 points right? His pelt has changed I think for the better but does he still have the last laugh? If they didn't take away anything I think he could be fun to field now.
Thank you.
I'm pretty sure it was described earlier in the thread that last laugh had a major nerf. Maybe it was another thread, getting hard to keep track, lol.
isch2929 wrote: So Lukas the Trickster was 15 points a bloodclaw +140. 155 total.
I think I read that you said he is now only 80 points right?
His pelt has changed I think for the better but does he still have the last laugh?
If they didn't take away anything I think he could be fun to field now.
Thank you.
I'm pretty sure it was described earlier in the thread that last laugh had a major nerf. Maybe it was another thread, getting hard to keep track, lol.
The ability to remove a titan on a 4+ was a little OP. Granted when the last laugh first came out things like titans weren't on every battlefield in the universe. My how times have changed. However, he is still has a pretty good chance of removing that big nasty as long as it was in a challenge.
isch2929 wrote: So Lukas the Trickster was 15 points a bloodclaw +140. 155 total. I think I read that you said he is now only 80 points right? His pelt has changed I think for the better but does he still have the last laugh? If they didn't take away anything I think he could be fun to field now.
Thank you.
I'm pretty sure it was described earlier in the thread that last laugh had a major nerf. Maybe it was another thread, getting hard to keep track, lol.
The ability to remove a titan on a 4+ was a little OP. Granted when the last laugh first came out things like titans weren't on every battlefield in the universe. My how times have changed. However, he is still has a pretty good chance of removing that big nasty as long as it was in a challenge.
It wasn't 4+, it was 7/12, but yeah, it was a bit crazy. However I don't think it needed to be nerfed to hell like it was, they could have just said all super heavy vehicles and gargantuan creatures were immune, or maybe they lost D3 hull points.
The point of models like Lukas is that it forced your opponent to NOT throw everything including the kitchen sink at him. I liked that.
2) The whole "cant join tis and tat"-rule is gone.
Awesome.
As Anpu42 wrote, I don't care about joining TWC to bikes, but joining a RP or WP on a bike to a unit of TWC is going to be sweet. Good to get confirmation that this works, going to start working on RP bike conversion now. TWC with Endurance or Life leech will really good.
Another question, is the rule that HQs have to be unique still in?
Why wouldn't bikes be able to turboboost, if joined by a cavalry model?
The cav runs d6, the bikes turboboost. The bikes can go up to 12", the cav goes as fast as he rolls, and the unit stays in coherency. Models move at their own speed now, whatever that is, not the speed of the slowest.
Spellbound wrote: Why wouldn't bikes be able to turboboost, if joined by a cavalry model?
The cav runs d6, the bikes turboboost. The bikes can go up to 12", the cav goes as fast as he rolls, and the unit stays in coherency. Models move at their own speed now, whatever that is, not the speed of the slowest.
This is one of the weird achievements of editions 6 and 7.
2) The whole "cant join tis and tat"-rule is gone.
Awesome.
As Anpu42 wrote, I don't care about joining TWC to bikes, but joining a RP or WP on a bike to a unit of TWC is going to be sweet. Good to get confirmation that this works, going to start working on RP bike conversion now. TWC with Endurance or Life leech will really good.
Another question, is the rule that HQs have to be unique still in?
Is the statline for TWC the same as before? Sorry if this has already been answered, I did read through the thread (thanks for the effort, btw) but may have missed something.
MLKTH wrote: Is the statline for TWC the same as before? Sorry if this has already been answered, I did read through the thread (thanks for the effort, btw) but may have missed thing.
Spellbound wrote: Why wouldn't bikes be able to turboboost, if joined by a cavalry model?
The cav runs d6, the bikes turboboost. The bikes can go up to 12", the cav goes as fast as he rolls, and the unit stays in coherency. Models move at their own speed now, whatever that is, not the speed of the slowest.
I understand they can do that, however you are missing the point, the bikes could potentially move 12 inches while the TW goes 6 at best, more often 3. Why would you want to move 12? Oh I dont know maybe to put yourself in a position to charge the next turn? Or get out of charge range?
Spellbound wrote: Why wouldn't bikes be able to turboboost, if joined by a cavalry model?
The cav runs d6, the bikes turboboost. The bikes can go up to 12", the cav goes as fast as he rolls, and the unit stays in coherency. Models move at their own speed now, whatever that is, not the speed of the slowest.
I understand they can do that, however you are missing the point, the bikes could potentially move 12 inches while the TW goes 6 at best, more often 3. Why would you want to move 12? Oh I dont know maybe to put yourself in a position to charge the next turn? Or get out of charge range?
The main reason why I don't like joining bikes into cavalry/beasts is that you lose fleet (every model in the unit has to have it), which can be a big deal in charges.
1) relics
2) Canis + special rules
3) Arjac can be added to 10 unit or to 9 unit of WG in TDA.
4) special wargear for characters - prices & special rules
what is the stats of Grimnars Axe, also thank you Vry much for all of this.
can you confirm the rumer about ragnar being free in a drop pod list, i havent seen anythign about it(and i dont and iddent belive it) but sense ur here thought i would ask. also could you give us a run down of the avilable relics?
And for those who can't read Spanish, the weapon allows each attack to be freely divided between the 2 modes of attack. Ie, he can make 3 attacks 1 handed (Str+2 AP3) and 1 with 2 handed. Unless my Spanish has drastically failed me?
And for those who can't read Spanish, the weapon allows each attack to be freely divided between the 2 modes of attack. Ie, he can make 3 attacks 1 handed (Str+2 AP3) and 1 with 2 handed. Unless my Spanish has drastically failed me?
Si)) he can divide between the 2 modes of attack. + move 3" on in5 + move on in1
And for those who can't read Spanish, the weapon allows each attack to be freely divided between the 2 modes of attack. Ie, he can make 3 attacks 1 handed (Str+2 AP3) and 1 with 2 handed. Unless my Spanish has drastically failed me?
Si)) he can divide between the 2 modes of attack. + move 3" on in5 + move on in1
Anpu42 wrote: Is the "Leader of the Pack" rule still there?
Specifically the thing about not being able to take the same Wargear.
Been answered before, its gone.
OP, I have a question related to Skyclaws weapon options. When I did the translations I noticed that Skyclaws have the option to take a Plasma Cannon for 15pts. Given that is not feasibly possible and irrational, I instead took it as a typo and translated it as Plasma Gun. was this correct to do? Does your version of the Codex list it as Plasma Gun or Cannon. The exact section reads in English as
"Two Grey Hunters may exchange their Pistol for one of the following
- Flamer 5pts
- Meltagun 10pts
- Plasma Gun or Cannon (the debate) for 15pts
- Plasma Pistol 15pts"
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also - Op, do iron priests gain normal techmarine rules like bolster defenses?
They dont.
So they just have Blessing of the Omnisiah and that's it?
They also are IC's with runic armor and a Thunder hammer, who can ride wolves. Base cost of 55? if i remember from earlier. They are pretty awesome even w/o Bolster Defences imo.
pretre wrote: Yeah, they are more concerned with repairing their enemies with sweeps of their Thunder Hammer than bolstering ruins and such.
Much like there are three key steps to battlefield medicine, there are three key steps to battlefield corrective maintenance.
1) Make sure it doesn't go from damaged to destroyed in the next three seconds.
2) Kill anyone who might interfere with your repairs by beating you to death or gunning you down.
3) Make repairs.
Or, as they taught my dad back in corpsman A-school, the first thing you administer to a wounded Marine is fire superiority.
pretre wrote: Yeah, they are more concerned with repairing their enemies with sweeps of their Thunder Hammer than bolstering ruins and such.
Much like there are three key steps to battlefield medicine, there are three key steps to battlefield corrective maintenance.
1) Make sure it doesn't go from damaged to destroyed in the next three seconds.
2) Kill anyone who might interfere with your repairs by beating you to death or gunning you down.
3) Make repairs.
Or, as they taught my dad back in corpsman A-school, the first thing you administer to a wounded Marine is fire superiority.
Gideon999 wrote: Bear in mind that SW iron priests dont get bolster terrain. They get repair only. Though they can do it from the back of a thunderwolf. :-)
OP would be wise to organize all the replies he's given in the first post so they could be referenced unit by unit/section by section. Would cut down the duplication.
Though at this point I expect a lot of codexes in hand this evening/tomorrow evening so there might not be much of a scoop left.
I may have missed this on the Iron Priest, is there still a unit of Servitors and Cyberwolves available as a retinue?
Super Newb wrote: Seems like people aren't reading the thread before they ask questions...
I did read the entire thread and didn't see this particular piece of information, therefore concluded it was a relevant ask. There is information about what the Wolves no longer have. Unless I missed it, which is possible when reading the thread on a cell phone, this has not yet been posted. Maybe you're jumping to conclusions?
So seeing as this thread has already thrown points all over the place here is the points costs as rumored for Wolf Guard Pack Leaders, (trying to work out the most cost effective model across the board).
Not sure what the associated cost is for taking TDA Upgrade, (haven't seen anything mentioned yet but surely there would be), rumored to be 33pts for 1x TDAWG Pack so assumedly another 15pts on top, (seeing as a PAWG is 18pts, (effectively saving 3pts per model when upgraded).
Obviously a lot more, but you can use the above to chop and change as you see fit; I'll update if people want once we have the confirmed price for TDA.
We haven't seen any mention of Storm Bolters for PAWG yet, (used to be 3pts), but for me my personal favourites are as follows:
1) Bolt Pistol / Frost Sword (20pts) / Upgrade (15pts) = 35pts Total.
Cheap and cheerful Close Combat orientated character, stands a decent chance of taking someone out at I4, (4A at S5 AP3 on the charge). Also fairly simple to model on a Bike, (holstered Pistol from TWC set, twin linked Boltguns for ranged combat too).
2) Combi Weapon (10pts) / Chainsword / Upgrade (15pts) = 25pts Total.
Cheap and cheerful Ranged addition, doesn't have two CCW so 3A at S4 AP- on the charge. Basically adds an additional Rapid Fire Plasma and CC attack for the price of a Plasma Gun +10pts.
3) None... at least on a PAWG = 0pts Total.
My concerns are that you're paying for upgrades on a character that can be challenged. Outside of a Combi Weapon at 24in for the added ranged prowess and a cheap AP3 weapon, these WGPA models are still susceptible to AP3. Honestly we need the confirmed TDA upgrade costs, then Storm Shields become viable with the AP3 weapons being negated by the 2+ / 3++ saves; Storm Shields are still damn expensive if the leaks are to be believed though.
Overall I'll probably model up 10 or so different load outs and mix and match for playtesting. Makes for decent modelling, even if I won't end up using a bunch of them! Thoughts people?
I wouldnt spend much on a Power Armored WG in a GH squad. I would say take the 10 pt upgrade for the LDR, essentially you are adding 1pt to the marines for ldr 9. You already have 2 meltas in the squad.
In all other cases, I would take the minimum 5, 1 melta and a WG in terminator armor with a combimelta- essentially the same tactic everyone took with the old book.
You are really paying more now for the WG than you did in the old codex and most people never took the WG in power armor then. Previously you spent 23 for power armor and a combiweapon, now its 30.
The power weapons dont make much sense to me, they are expensive, and at the end of the day, you charge in with say 3 attacks, you hit 1.5 and you are lucky to get one wound against any MEQ. Against non meq, what are you worried about the power weapon for?
sturguard wrote: I would think there isnt much incentive to take a WG in PA at all except for the +1 ldr. I mean you are paying 30 pts for one plasma pistol shot, or one combimelta shot. Now under the old dex, you could take the PAWG and put them in squads so you could get to the heavy weapons, but it seems that is no more. Me, either I am going to take a full squad of GH with 2 meltas or you go MSU and take 5 guys with 1 melta and a WG in termie armor with combimelta, same as you would have 2 weeks ago.
Don't forget we're also paying to upgrade from a Grey Hunter so you're that's 14pts basic on top.
So yeah, with the simple Combi Weapon upgrade you're paying for a Grey Hunter (14pts), then the upgrade to Wolf Guard (15pts), then the Combi Weapon (10pts) so 39pts total for an extra Plasma/Melta shot (2 if saved for rapid fire on the former). With the Frost Sword & Bolt Pistol version you're paying for 49pts to replace, the standard 2 S4 AP- attacks (GH with BG & CCW) with 4 S5 AP3 attacks (WGPL with BP & FS) - assuming in all cases either charged or counter charged.
To me this doesn't add up. I know we effectively 'gain' another Elite slot but the upgrade cost is crippling unto itself. Unless, and this is with all respect to Mywik (who has done a stellar job answering everyones questions), the 15pts is the TDA upgrade cost and the PA WGPL is in the squad as standard? In all the unit profiles it appears to be in there as standard in all units now, (as per a Sergeant), i.e. 4 Grey Hunters with Boltgun & Bolt Pistol and a PAWGBL with Bolt Pistol and Chainsword. The more I worked at it, the more this seems to be the case. Why would they include a cost for a WGBL at 15pts when he's already part of the squad; ergo the 15pts is for the TDA upgrade, which evens out as per my costings in the second paragraph.
Then you'd be getting a Combi Weapon for 10pts, or those 4 S5 AP3 attacks for 20pts. Much more reasonable. Mywik, if you can check and reiterate that would be simply sublime!
Really liking what I have read so far, nothing is as doom and gloom as I thought from the rumors.
I have to say so far the idea of the IP on a Twolf running around has my gears turning on MIU (multiple individual units). IP on Twolves, and LWs in TDA running around, that's a lot of 2+ armor to go an punk units off of objectives and such.
I love that LWs are now 1 per WG/GH unit, that's very fluffy and gives you some flexibility.
Dread with Axe and SS finally gives you a dread you can Pod as a useful distraction, who might ACTUALLY live until the next turn so you can use him.
And as mentioned before, you should just take the superior TDA upgrade for this unit anways, unless you really really want that extra special weapon for the 10th model. IMOGH Will be stronger running 4-5 PA and a TDAWG.
Kal-El wrote: If there is no mention of the 13 co and motw gone...what gives? This straight up space Viking crap now? Think there's a supplement in the works? And if no mention of 13 co what about the blank rune on the table
They must be mentioned, as this is supposedly from the codex...
It's a shame they don't have rules, but 13th company have never had rules in the codex so it's nothing exceptional that they still don't.
Yea That entry is actually idencitcal to the older codex, but it still doesn't have anything about the wulfen does it in the fluff? What does the fluff say about the canis helix gene? And the fluff about the 13th co being lost in the warp, bipedal beings of terror etc. Anything new or is it omitted? I'm upset the werewolf factor seems to be missing from the codex via others posts. That was the biggest reason I liked the wolves!
From what I understand it is the GH cost 14 plus 10 for the WG upgrade, then a further 10 for the combiweapon. So you are paying 34 pts, and of course you count the GH cost. If you want a WG with combimelta you pay 34 pts.
Like I said, I would expect 3 options
1. No WG, just 10 GHs bare bones, no CC weapon, 2 meltas, most likely in a pod.
2. Same as above but take the 10 pt upgrade for ldr 9.
3. Take 5 GH, upgrade one to a WG in Termie armor with a combimelta and take a melta in the squad.
You can put all kinds of upgrades, plasma pistols etc into the GHs but it only makes them even more expensive and doesn't add to their usefulness, it just makes it more expensive when your opponent shoots at the squad and instead of losing 14 pt GHs, you are losing 24 pt GHs.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Do we have any info on:
Armor of Russ (Armor)
Bite of Fenris (Bolter with two fire modes)
Black Death (Frost Axe, Rule: Whirldwind of Death)
Helm of Durfast (Wargear)
Fangsword of the Ice Wolf (Frost Sword)
Wulfenstone (Wargear)
Automatically Appended Next Post: I would be interested to know what the Wulfenstone, and the Helm do, I would bet the others are pretty bland and overcosted weapons.
These are my speculations but I expect the following
Armour of Russ grants a 2+ 6++ and Eternal Warrior or Fearless or something.
Bite of Fenris has a mode with lots of low strength, bad AP shots with rending or 2 high strength good ap shots with Helfrost.
Helm grants like Zealot and Adamantium Will or something.
Black Death can choose to hit everything in base contact.
Wulfenstone is like Tyranid Ymgarl factor: A relic that grants the abilities of a previoudly unique unit (YF grants the owner the same +1 Str, Toughness or Attacks as Ymgarl Stealers had). I expect it will grant the old Mark of the Wulfen effect. +D6 attacks with rending and not effected by wargear?
Deadshot wrote: These are my speculations but I expect the following
Armour of Russ grants a 2+ 6++ and Eternal Warrior or Fearless or something.
Armour of Russ is 2+/6++ and -5 Initiative for your opponent in a challenge
Bite of Fenris. Special Bolter with 2 firemodes s4 ap5 rapid fire helfrost or s5 ap4 rapid fire ignores cover
Black death is melee weapon s+2 ap2 melee unwieldy and whirlwind of death (+3 attacks if bearer is locked in combat that contains more enemies than friendlies)
Helm of Durfast. Bearer rerolls failed to hit and gains ignores cover
fangsword of the ice wolf: s+1 ap3 helfrost rending
wulfen stone : bearer and unit gain furious charge and bearer gains rage.
I have a question related to Skyclaws weapon options. When I did the translations I noticed that Skyclaws have the option to take a Plasma Cannon for 15pts. Given that is not feasibly possible and irrational, I instead took it as a typo and translated it as Plasma Gun. was this correct to do? Does your version of the Codex list it as Plasma Gun or Cannon. The exact section reads in English as
"Two Grey Hunters may exchange their Pistol for one of the following
- Flamer 5pts
- Meltagun 10pts
- Plasma Gun or Cannon (the debate) for 15pts
- Plasma Pistol 15pts"
Deadshot wrote: I have a question related to Skyclaws weapon options. When I did the translations I noticed that Skyclaws have the option to take a Plasma Cannon for 15pts. Given that is not feasibly possible and irrational, I instead took it as a typo and translated it as Plasma Gun. was this correct to do? Does your version of the Codex list it as Plasma Gun or Cannon. The exact section reads in English as
"Two Grey Hunters may exchange their Pistol for one of the following
- Flamer 5pts
- Meltagun 10pts
- Plasma Gun or Cannon (the debate) for 15pts
- Plasma Pistol 15pts"
Its a gun.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Puscifer wrote: Is it me or is this book turning more into Codex: World Eaters than the last one did?
On topic...
How do TWC work now? Do you get the riders attacks and then the TW attacks?
nope. Twc modifies riders statline as before. They now add one wound in addition to the bonuses they gave in the old codex. They can now join every unit they wish. In addition rending is now also confered if the rider has e.g. a powerweapon. They got more expensive though pointswise.
sturguard wrote: From what I understand it is the GH cost 14 plus 10 for the WG upgrade, then a further 10 for the combiweapon. So you are paying 34 pts, and of course you count the GH cost. If you want a WG with combimelta you pay 34 pts.
Like I said, I would expect 3 options 1. No WG, just 10 GHs bare bones, no CC weapon, 2 meltas, most likely in a pod. 2. Same as above but take the 10 pt upgrade for ldr 9. 3. Take 5 GH, upgrade one to a WG in Termie armor with a combimelta and take a melta in the squad.
You can put all kinds of upgrades, plasma pistols etc into the GHs but it only makes them even more expensive and doesn't add to their usefulness, it just makes it more expensive when your opponent shoots at the squad and instead of losing 14 pt GHs, you are losing 24 pt GHs..
Ja, at the moment I'm leaning towards using my GH as objective seekers/babysitters with the standard BG & BP basic, with two PG in Rhinos, (30 modeled with 2 handed Boltguns, works for me). Then explore Combi-Plasma and/or Frost Swords as potential upgrades once I see any impact, or lack of, therein. I've never gone in for Plasma Pistols as a rule, on GH I preferred to keep them cheap, (8 BG, 2 PG, 10 BP, 1 Wolf Standard and occasionally MotW). With BC the poorer BS simply didn't warrant the points either, although again I have a few modeled with them, (might dust off the old LR Crusader now they're a bit cheaper, Lukas now only being able to remove the model he has challenged, should he prevail in the roll-off (The Last Laugh) is a bit of a downer for me personally, but the -3 WS in challenges could be handy for tying up a Warlord whilst the BCs get whittled down by the bodyguard unit over 2 turns).
I have 10 WG in PA all with Combi-Plasma and Chainsword as modelled from 5th when they could drop in at 23pts per model with a Drop Pod and obliterate a backfield unit then hold their own in CC with Rapid Fire Overwatch & Counterattack / Get absolutely obliterated but soak up some firepower, (Plasma used, fulfilled their main purpose). As for the others I didn't really need my Stormclaw Wolf Pack so I'll probably model them with various loadouts, more as a modeling WG project than anything else, but swap in and out for any perceived impact.
I was just mainly curious if we Wolves players could see an instant "auto-include" such as the Ork Nob and Power Klaw I see in every Ork Boyz squad.
Who said that he did? Last Laugh is in. Its nerfed though. If he dies in a challenge both players roll off and if the sw player wins the other model is also removed as a casualty.
Who said that he did? Last Laugh is in. Its nerfed though. If he dies in a challenge both players roll off and if the sw player wins the other model is also removed as a casualty.
My bad, sleep deprivation setting in! I think I was going for "losing the potency of The Last Laugh" but got distracted... updated OP to reflect true rules, apologies!
Puscifer wrote: Is it me or is this book turning more into Codex: World Eaters than the last one did?
On topic...
How do TWC work now? Do you get the riders attacks and then the TW attacks?
nope. Twc modifies riders statline as before. They now add one wound in addition to the bonuses they gave in the old codex. They can now join every unit they wish. In addition rending is now also confered if the rider has e.g. a powerweapon. They got more expensive though pointswise.
SO you can have a Thunder Hammer and still get Rending???
Puscifer wrote: Is it me or is this book turning more into Codex: World Eaters than the last one did?
On topic...
How do TWC work now? Do you get the riders attacks and then the TW attacks?
nope. Twc modifies riders statline as before. They now add one wound in addition to the bonuses they gave in the old codex. They can now join every unit they wish. In addition rending is now also confered if the rider has e.g. a powerweapon. They got more expensive though pointswise.
SO you can have a Thunder Hammer and still get Rending???
Still love to see what Canis does now. Thread stated that he no longer makes his puppies troops but did anything else change about him? Warlord trait, or invul save?
"Helm of Durfast. Bearer rerolls failed to hit and gains ignores cover"
This is kind of funny, so what gun can a character get that is more than 12 inch range? I guess the one combimelta shot you get would ignore cover or the 2 combiplasma shots. How much does it cost?
Panzer1944 wrote: Still love to see what Canis does now. Thread stated that he no longer makes his puppies troops but did anything else change about him? Warlord trait, or invul save?
Yeah I'm still curious on this too.... Still get as many attacks as people he's in Base contact with?
The Wolf Standard now gives +1 attack, right? Here's some fun addition for GH: 1 attack base, +1 for 2 cc weapons, +1 for standard, +1 for charge. 40 attacks on the charge is tearing through most infantry squads in the first round of combat.
Random Dude wrote: The Wolf Standard now gives +1 attack, right? Here's some fun addition for GH: 1 attack base, +1 for 2 cc weapons, +1 for standard, +1 for charge. 40 attacks on the charge is tearing through most infantry squads in the first round of combat.
Panzer1944 wrote: Still love to see what Canis does now. Thread stated that he no longer makes his puppies troops but did anything else change about him? Warlord trait, or invul save?
Has fixed saga of the wolfkin.(stubborn for units entirely beasts or cavalry in his detachment and a 12" furious charge bubble for them)
He and all fenrisian wolves and cyberwolves in his unit reroll failed hits during an assault phase in which they charged into combat. He has Rampage and no invuln.
+1 seize the initiative. Clunky victory points rule is gone, he can take helfrost cannon and is 220 pts. Kept his 5++. Oh and he can take a drop pod as dedicated transport. All space wolves cybots can including murderfang.
Panzer1944 wrote: Still love to see what Canis does now. Thread stated that he no longer makes his puppies troops but did anything else change about him? Warlord trait, or invul save?
Has fixed saga of the wolfkin.(stubborn for units entirely beasts or cavalry in his detachment and a 12" furious charge bubble for them)
He and all fenrisian wolves and cyberwolves in his unit reroll failed hits during an assault phase in which they charged into combat. He has Rampage and no invuln.
Thats pretty much it. Hes 185 pts.
Sorry to see no ++ Save, but the rest look good. At least until the FAQ removes the Rending.
Panzer1944 wrote: Still love to see what Canis does now. Thread stated that he no longer makes his puppies troops but did anything else change about him? Warlord trait, or invul save?
Has fixed saga of the wolfkin.(stubborn for units entirely beasts or cavalry in his detachment and a 12" furious charge bubble for them)
He and all fenrisian wolves and cyberwolves in his unit reroll failed hits during an assault phase in which they charged into combat. He has Rampage and no invuln.
Thats pretty much it. Hes 185 pts.
.
Damn was hoping he would learn how to put on a belt for a bit more survivability. Not a huge hit but I do like his other rules since they fit him well. Thank you for the update.
Anpu42 wrote: [quote=Mywik 608942 7096065 b90a9fc803eeb95be91ec8f3328ad5cc.png
Sorry to see no ++ Save, but the rest look good. At least until the FAQ removes the Rending.
I dont see that coming. Its so crystal clear. The sentence is literally "All close combat attacks made by a model with a thunderwolf mount have the rending special rule."
Before there was an explicit exception and now theres nothing else than this sentence so im 100% sure its intended.
Anpu42 wrote: [quote=Mywik 608942 7096065 b90a9fc803eeb95be91ec8f3328ad5cc.png
Sorry to see no ++ Save, but the rest look good. At least until the FAQ removes the Rending.
I dont see that coming. Its so crystal clear. The sentence is literally "All close combat attacks made by a model with a thunderwolf mount have the rending special rule."
Before there was an explicit exception and now theres nothing else than this sentence so im 100% sure its intended.
That just me being pessimistic for once. I am still upset from when they removed it from the last one.
Anpu42 wrote: [quote=Mywik 608942 7096065 b90a9fc803eeb95be91ec8f3328ad5cc.png
Sorry to see no ++ Save, but the rest look good. At least until the FAQ removes the Rending.
I dont see that coming. Its so crystal clear. The sentence is literally "All close combat attacks made by a model with a thunderwolf mount have the rending special rule."
Before there was an explicit exception and now theres nothing else than this sentence so im 100% sure its intended.
That just me being pessimistic for once. I am still upset from when they removed it from the last one.
Whats sick is that in the old codex you were able to buy 1 special cc weapon per squad. Now theres no such restriction anymore. You can mix and match how you want. Pair that with rending on all cc attacks and it gets nasty.
Anpu42 wrote: [quote=Mywik 608942 7096065 b90a9fc803eeb95be91ec8f3328ad5cc.png
Sorry to see no ++ Save, but the rest look good. At least until the FAQ removes the Rending.
I dont see that coming. Its so crystal clear. The sentence is literally "All close combat attacks made by a model with a thunderwolf mount have the rending special rule."
Before there was an explicit exception and now theres nothing else than this sentence so im 100% sure its intended.
That just me being pessimistic for once. I am still upset from when they removed it from the last one.
Whats sick is that in the old codex you were able to buy 1 special cc weapon per squad. Now theres no such restriction anymore. You can mix and match how you want. Pair that with rending on all cc attacks and it gets nasty.
So does the Weapon Load out work? Same options at the old one, but without the limit or more like Wolf Guard?
Anpu42 wrote: [quote=Mywik 608942 7096065 b90a9fc803eeb95be91ec8f3328ad5cc.png Sorry to see no ++ Save, but the rest look good. At least until the FAQ removes the Rending.
I dont see that coming. Its so crystal clear. The sentence is literally "All close combat attacks made by a model with a thunderwolf mount have the rending special rule." Before there was an explicit exception and now theres nothing else than this sentence so im 100% sure its intended.
That just me being pessimistic for once. I am still upset from when they removed it from the last one.
Whats sick is that in the old codex you were able to buy 1 special cc weapon per squad. Now theres no such restriction anymore. You can mix and match how you want. Pair that with rending on all cc attacks and it gets nasty.
So does the Weapon Load out work? Same options at the old one, but without the limit or more like Wolf Guard?
Simple. Any model may take items from the melee weapons list. Which is the same list for everyone that has access to melee weapons (except terminators which have their own list). So same like WG.
Anpu42 wrote: [quote=Mywik 608942 7096065 b90a9fc803eeb95be91ec8f3328ad5cc.png
Sorry to see no ++ Save, but the rest look good. At least until the FAQ removes the Rending.
I dont see that coming. Its so crystal clear. The sentence is literally "All close combat attacks made by a model with a thunderwolf mount have the rending special rule."
Before there was an explicit exception and now theres nothing else than this sentence so im 100% sure its intended.
That just me being pessimistic for once. I am still upset from when they removed it from the last one.
Whats sick is that in the old codex you were able to buy 1 special cc weapon per squad. Now theres no such restriction anymore. You can mix and match how you want. Pair that with rending on all cc attacks and it gets nasty.
So does the Weapon Load out work? Same options at the old one, but without the limit or more like Wolf Guard?
Simple. Any model may take items from the melee weapons list. Which is the same list everyone that has access to melee weapons (except terminators which have their own list). So same like WG.
Random Dude wrote: The Wolf Standard now gives +1 attack, right? Here's some fun addition for GH: 1 attack base, +1 for 2 cc weapons, +1 for standard, +1 for charge. 40 attacks on the charge is tearing through most infantry squads in the first round of combat.
And my Genestealers cry why they are not feared now more. Just curious, how much would all that cost for one mini?
sturguard wrote: "Helm of Durfast. Bearer rerolls failed to hit and gains ignores cover"
This is kind of funny, so what gun can a character get that is more than 12 inch range? I guess the one combimelta shot you get would ignore cover or the 2 combiplasma shots. How much does it cost?
I know the rules for the relic's have been posted already, but what about point costs, specifically for the wulfenstone and armor of russ. I'm also curious to know if wolf priests can still take runic armor (price) and if they have access to relic's and melee weapons.
sturguard wrote: "Helm of Durfast. Bearer rerolls failed to hit and gains ignores cover"
This is kind of funny, so what gun can a character get that is more than 12 inch range? I guess the one combimelta shot you get would ignore cover or the 2 combiplasma shots. How much does it cost?
Anpu42 wrote: [quote=Mywik 608942 7096065 b90a9fc803eeb95be91ec8f3328ad5cc.png
Sorry to see no ++ Save, but the rest look good. At least until the FAQ removes the Rending.
I dont see that coming. Its so crystal clear. The sentence is literally "All close combat attacks made by a model with a thunderwolf mount have the rending special rule."
Before there was an explicit exception and now theres nothing else than this sentence so im 100% sure its intended.
That just me being pessimistic for once. I am still upset from when they removed it from the last one.
Whats sick is that in the old codex you were able to buy 1 special cc weapon per squad. Now theres no such restriction anymore. You can mix and match how you want. Pair that with rending on all cc attacks and it gets nasty.
So does the Weapon Load out work? Same options at the old one, but without the limit or more like Wolf Guard?
Simple. Any model may take items from the melee weapons list. Which is the same list for everyone that has access to melee weapons (except terminators which have their own list). So same like WG.
This might be a pedantic question but I need to know for sure. TWC can take chainfists now? Can we get a rundown on point cost for special weapons available to them?
Anpu42 wrote: [quote=Mywik 608942 7096065 b90a9fc803eeb95be91ec8f3328ad5cc.png
Sorry to see no ++ Save, but the rest look good. At least until the FAQ removes the Rending.
I dont see that coming. Its so crystal clear. The sentence is literally "All close combat attacks made by a model with a thunderwolf mount have the rending special rule."
Before there was an explicit exception and now theres nothing else than this sentence so im 100% sure its intended.
That just me being pessimistic for once. I am still upset from when they removed it from the last one.
Whats sick is that in the old codex you were able to buy 1 special cc weapon per squad. Now theres no such restriction anymore. You can mix and match how you want. Pair that with rending on all cc attacks and it gets nasty.
So does the Weapon Load out work? Same options at the old one, but without the limit or more like Wolf Guard?
Simple. Any model may take items from the melee weapons list. Which is the same list for everyone that has access to melee weapons (except terminators which have their own list). So same like WG.
This might be a pedantic question but I need to know for sure. TWC can take chainfists now? Can we get a rundown on point cost for special weapons available to them?
just too expensive 
.
. Sitting here reading and im happy to share it with you guys.
