Dropped this in the BA thread but thought it was worthy of its own thread as it effects all armies if true.
Via Lords of War Gaming
So for those of you that pay attention to the release list for upcoming product you may have noticed that 32mm bases are on the list for next week.
If you are wondering what they were for take a good hard look at the Death company in the picture and compare to the genestealers and behold the future!
Get ready to get your (re)base on. To reiterate ALL MODELS on 25mm bases will eventually transition to the new 32mm bases.
They have reiterated in the comments of the post they made that there source has said all infantry will on 25mm bases will switch to 32mm bases, not just bulky models.
It makes some sense to have bulky models on a larger base.
I'm not buying ALL models changed to 32mm, and I mean that literaly as well as figuratively as well. Who in their right mind would want to rebase an entire collection from 25 to 32mm ?
I think it should be based on the unit / model .. keep some small things on 25's and increase them a tad for bulkier stuff. I always hate it when the tips of space marine and necron feets stick out over the edges.
Screw 'em. My Tzeentch Daemons all have heavily converted scenic bases. There is no fething way I'm going to rip those bases apart, which include some green stuff sculpting and a heaping amount of various bitz and re-do everything onto slightly larger bases.
Not to mention that things like Pink Horrors are pretty much impossible to break off their bases without bending/breaking their rather scrawny little legs...
Not to mention, so goodly number of infantry models would look completely lost on the new bases, such as IG, most Eldar, Fire Warriors, etc... They'd just look silly, kinda like how Ungors looked stupid back in 6th edition when GW upgraded them to the 25mm bases during the whole 'combined herd' experiment with the Beastmen army book. (and then dropped it in the 7th ed book and forced Ungors back onto their proper 20mm bases! )
Necros wrote: I think it should be based on the unit / model .. keep some small things on 25's and increase them a tad for bulkier stuff. I always hate it when the tips of space marine and necron feets stick out over the edges.
Agreed. Started putting together my first necrons last week and what pain to get those wide legs on the base properly!
It makes no sense that if they were changing everything from 25mm to 32mm, that they wouldn't have done it for ALL of the models in the box set. This is just click-bait stuff.
I am, however, more likely to prescribe to the "32mm for bulky units" idea. But I guess posting that wouldn't have drawn as many views. Going the 'ol terrorizing media route, eh LOW?
It makes sense from a manufacturing point of view to add the 32mm bases to new kits as they are released
(or in new production runs), otherwise you are double handling products and adding more cost to it (manufacturing wise) if you go back to old kits, open them up and switch out the bases.
I'm interested to see how this pans out, hopefully the releases for BA after the Box set will reveal more.
Again, as long as it's never said you have to rebase all your current models, I'm absolutely cool with this and in fact, I welcome it. Larger bases is a god-emperor's send to some models and it means there's more space to "pimp my base".
But please, nothing has been confirmed, so let's keep our pitchforks and torches stored for the time being, ok?
manrogue wrote: It makes sense from a manufacturing point of view to add the 32mm bases to new kits as they are released
(or in new production runs), otherwise you are double handling products and adding more cost to it (manufacturing wise) if you go back to old kits, open them up and switch out the bases.
I'm interested to see how this pans out, hopefully the releases for BA after the Box set will reveal more.
Also, LoW have a good record for rumours-
Lords of Wargaming - Total rumors: (12 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (0 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE
That not including the fact there are a couple of trues that Pretre hasn't updated yet.
Can't see why they would make this up.
As for the genestealers, it wouldn't make sense to add the new bases in the box set. Why?
Because it would make more sense to switch bases as you update an army in my opinion, reduce the handling costs by running stock down in advance and then switch as you update.
At least then you are reducing the double handling costs by reducing the amount of boxes you have to switch out.
manrogue wrote: It makes sense from a manufacturing point of view to add the 32mm bases to new kits as they are released
(or in new production runs), otherwise you are double handling products and adding more cost to it (manufacturing wise) if you go back to old kits, open them up and switch out the bases.
I'm interested to see how this pans out, hopefully the releases for BA after the Box set will reveal more.
Death Company aren't new.
I know, but they are getting re-released with a new codex.....
manrogue wrote: It makes sense from a manufacturing point of view to add the 32mm bases to new kits as they are released
(or in new production runs), otherwise you are double handling products and adding more cost to it (manufacturing wise) if you go back to old kits, open them up and switch out the bases.
I'm interested to see how this pans out, hopefully the releases for BA after the Box set will reveal more.
Death Company aren't new.
I know, but they are getting re-released with a new codex.....
Which has no impact on anything.
If GW wanted to start packing 32mm bases in with models, they could easily have started doing so. It is not unheard of for them to repackage models as well even when they are not getting a release.
It would be a way to screw over loads of 3rd party manufacturers though as I don't think anybody else makes 32mm round specifically (30mm bevelled but not 32mm round).....
StraightSilver wrote:It would be a way to screw over loads of 3rd party manufacturers though as I don't think anybody else makes 32mm round specifically (30mm bevelled but not 32mm round).....
scarletsquig wrote:32mm would require the purchase of Games Workshop bases. Makes good business sense.
Not as much screwing them over as helping their sales.
Sure GW is the only manufacturers of 32mm right now but how long until 3rd party manufacturers add another base size to their already sizable catalog.
How long did it take for 3rd party manufacturers to start selling 40k bike bases, or the big oval flyerbases? Not like GW has a monopoly on those sizes anymore.
StraightSilver wrote:It would be a way to screw over loads of 3rd party manufacturers though as I don't think anybody else makes 32mm round specifically (30mm bevelled but not 32mm round).....
scarletsquig wrote:32mm would require the purchase of Games Workshop bases. Makes good business sense.
Not as much screwing them over as helping their sales.
Sure GW is the only manufacturers of 32mm right now but how long until 3rd party manufacturers add another base size to their already sizable catalog.
How long did it take for 3rd party manufacturers to start selling 40k bike bases, or the big oval flyerbases? Not like GW has a monopoly on those sizes anymore.
The only problem with that is many of the 3rd party guys have loads of bases to catch up to this size, and some don't have the same sculptors to do the jobs, or they will still look out of place in the line. It's just another way to make an expense for your competition, and sideline them for a short time. Then again it makes companies like the ones that made the basius pads be in that much better if a situation as they only need to sell you more green stuff.
StraightSilver wrote:It would be a way to screw over loads of 3rd party manufacturers though as I don't think anybody else makes 32mm round specifically (30mm bevelled but not 32mm round).....
scarletsquig wrote:32mm would require the purchase of Games Workshop bases. Makes good business sense.
Not as much screwing them over as helping their sales. Sure GW is the only manufacturers of 32mm right now but how long until 3rd party manufacturers add another base size to their already sizable catalog.
How long did it take for 3rd party manufacturers to start selling 40k bike bases, or the big oval flyerbases? Not like GW has a monopoly on those sizes anymore.
Right, GW switching to 32mm as a way to punish 3rd party bitz makers would be incredibly short-sighted. They would be, in effect, punishing their customers by encouraging them to buy product with barely any value (yes, I know some models could use those 32mm bases, but for a lot it's redundant). That, coupled with the fact that it would't take 3rd party bitz makers long to just tweak their base sizes, AND the broken-nose GW suffered during the CHS case, and I can't see this as something even within the scope of crazy ol' GW.
The only other motivation I can think of to include more 32mm bases would be GW pushing the game even farther from standardization, allowing units to pick bases of different sizes depending on their size and thereby further diluting the concept of "competitive 40k" (I can only imagine the tactics conversations to go on "make sure to put your sergeants on 32mm bases, etc." ). But this notion sounds farfetched and absurd, so I'm just going to go with the thought that LOW got some wires crossed on this rumor.
If it's true, I guess I'll be left scratching my head.
StraightSilver wrote:It would be a way to screw over loads of 3rd party manufacturers though as I don't think anybody else makes 32mm round specifically (30mm bevelled but not 32mm round).....
scarletsquig wrote:32mm would require the purchase of Games Workshop bases. Makes good business sense.
Not as much screwing them over as helping their sales.
Sure GW is the only manufacturers of 32mm right now but how long until 3rd party manufacturers add another base size to their already sizable catalog.
How long did it take for 3rd party manufacturers to start selling 40k bike bases, or the big oval flyerbases? Not like GW has a monopoly on those sizes anymore.
The only problem with that is many of the 3rd party guys have loads of bases to catch up to this size, and some don't have the same sculptors to do the jobs, or they will still look out of place in the line. It's just another way to make an expense for your competition, and sideline them for a short time. Then again it makes companies like the ones that made the basius pads be in that much better if a situation as they only need to sell you more green stuff.
Sure it's some work for the 3rd party guys. But I can't imagine it being much more than a minor hassle to create another base size as long as they have access to at least one sculptor, as the design is already done on the other sizes and it's just a matter of copying over that style.
If anything, GW has widened the market for the 3rd party companies.
It makes no sense, GW is pushing for bigger games all the time, making cheap infantry models take up more space on the table is completely counterproductive.
Breotan wrote: You mean I have to re-base all my grots? o.O
Unfortunally yes. While all infantry in general will be required by law to be transferred to 32mm bases, Grots in particular will be required to use the old gorkamorka peanut bases.
It's almost no work for 3rd parties - just cut 8mm off the 40mm bases.
My concern is GW is going to try and claim ownership of 32mm bases and try to throw their weight around. I can't see it holding up to scrutiny but nothing else they do, does.
Also still nothing stopping companies doing 31/33mm bases that are actually 32mm diameter; I've already got 31/32mm bases I used for Malifaux (sold as 30mm but presumably with some shrinkage overcompensated for in the resin).
Breotan wrote: You mean I have to re-base all my grots? o.O
Unfortunally yes. While all infantry in general will be required by law to be transferred to 32mm bases, Grots in particular will be required to use the old gorkamorka peanut bases.
Herzlos wrote: It's almost no work for 3rd parties - just cut 8mm off the 40mm bases.
My concern is GW is going to try and claim ownership of 32mm bases and try to throw their weight around. I can't see it holding up to scrutiny but nothing else they do, does.
Also still nothing stopping companies doing 31/33mm bases that are actually 32mm diameter; I've already got 31/32mm bases I used for Malifaux (sold as 30mm but presumably with some shrinkage overcompensated for in the resin).
It doesn't matter if they actually "own" it. It takes 4 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars to prove otherwise. GW has proven that they're willing to throw away that type of money to enforce their ludicrous ideas.
Desubot wrote: Meh wont be switching bases any time soon. BUT in good news the bigger base size will make for some nice character basing.
I really wish they started out with these way back when for jump packs (frickin insane trying to keep em up right or in tight formation)
Yeah, the same is true of orks as well with their gorilla arms out at the side like they're airing out their armpits in the breeze mandatory choppa boy poses.
Seems like an odd and unlikely rumor, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it happened. With so many other games using 30mm bases, if GW decides to upsize, there really isn't any downside for them in switching to a proprietary base size. Why give your customers the ability to go elsewhere?
Necros wrote: I think it should be based on the unit / model .. keep some small things on 25's and increase them a tad for bulkier stuff. I always hate it when the tips of space marine and necron feets stick out over the edges.
Agreed. Started putting together my first necrons last week and what pain to get those wide legs on the base properly!
It may be a moot point if the rumor is true, but have you considered switching to flat sided 25mm bases? Litko and other companies make them in wood/MDF and Mantic and Wargames factory (though they are 2mm rather than 3mm thick) make them in plastic. It might not seem like much, but GW 25mm Slottas and Privateer press 30mm rounds only have 23mm of actual basing area. 2mm can be a real benefit when trying to fit that last bit of foot on the base. Here's some height, width and basing-area-diameters for common (and not so common) bases I reviewed a while back.
http://chicagoskirmish.blogspot.com/2012/07/review-bases-from-proxie-models.html
I'm intrigued. Marines probably would look better on slightly bigger bases, and I'm contemplating re-basing* whether 32mm becomes the new standard or not. At least all my Marine characters (that are not wearing TDA) will get 32mm bases.
However, I really cannot see them switching all infantry on bigger bases, it would make sense for Marines, Orks and other bulkier models, but would look bloody weird on IG or Tau.
* I'd not rip models from their bases. It shouldn't be too hard to cut a 25mm hole into the 32mm base, and attach the old base inside of it.
My concern is GW is going to try and claim ownership of 32mm bases and try to throw their weight around. I can't see it holding up to scrutiny but nothing else they do, does.
I had the same thought in the BA thread (and got insulted for it, too). I can definitely see GW trying this as some sort of proprietary game element, but I don't see it working in the long run. GW probably thinks the third party base makers won't be able to adapt quickly enough.
My concern is GW is going to try and claim ownership of 32mm bases and try to throw their weight around. I can't see it holding up to scrutiny but nothing else they do, does.
I had the same thought in the BA thread (and got insulted for it, too). I can definitely see GW trying this as some sort of proprietary game element, but I don't see it working in the long run. GW probably thinks the third party base makers won't be able to adapt quickly enough.
While GW is not above overreaching when it comes to their IP, they aren't going to claim copyright on what is basically a 32mm wide cylinder.
They might try to get a patent on the rumored snap-fit system but wont' claim copyright on the 32mm shape. That would be too ridiculous and would hardly need to be defended in court.
So anyone currently producing bases of the size of 25mm, 20mm, 40mm, and so on will be able to sell 32mm as well.
-Edit
And as previous posters have pointed out. Litko even sell this size already.
Zywus wrote: While GW is not above overreaching when it comes to their IP, they aren't going to claim copyright on what is basically a 32mm wide cylinder.
We're talking about the company that tried to claim they owned the generic arrow and chevron shapes. Nuff said. Nothing is beyond GW; the only question is whether they'll actually try it.
Zywus wrote: While GW is not above overreaching when it comes to their IP, they aren't going to claim copyright on what is basically a 32mm wide cylinder.
We're talking about the company that tried to claim they owned the generic arrow and chevron shapes. Nuff said. Nothing is beyond GW; the only question is whether they'll actually try it.
Assuming those claims were actually made and that's not simply a misunderstanding of the legalese of the chapterhouse case, said claims were presumably summarily rejected by the court.
The reason the chapterhouse case dragged on for a long time and consumed resources were that GW had a case for some of their claims. A copyright claim for a cylinder-shape would need almost no time or resources to refute.
Not being cynical or anything but I doubt GW would change bases size just because today 3rd party companies are developing compatible bases. I mean if you dont want to rebase you can just buy a 32mm disc and glue beneath the 25 bases also any third party company can develop blanks with holes to fit 25mm... etc.
I believe the reason behind this is something to do with rules and also that the miniature scale is increasing more and more...
Personally I always liked more room on the bases to add extra details or even just to fit the more dynamic minis.
Don't see a problem with the change apart from the fact that there seems to be more and more different sizes and shapes, I think it looks better to just have only 2 or 3 sizes\ shapes for your army.
Haha its hard enough to get 200 odd orks on the table with the current base size let alone 32mm.
It just proves to me that GW have no idea what game they want to make. Give players rules for pretty much whole companies but give you massive bases so you can fit fewer dudes on the table??
Herzlos wrote: It's almost no work for 3rd parties - just cut 8mm off the 40mm bases.
My concern is GW is going to try and claim ownership of 32mm bases and try to throw their weight around. I can't see it holding up to scrutiny but nothing else they do, does.
Also still nothing stopping companies doing 31/33mm bases that are actually 32mm diameter; I've already got 31/32mm bases I used for Malifaux (sold as 30mm but presumably with some shrinkage overcompensated for in the resin).
It doesn't matter if they actually "own" it. It takes 4 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars to prove otherwise. GW has proven that they're willing to throw away that type of money to enforce their ludicrous ideas.
I'm going on record now to say that even GW aren't dumb enough to claim ownership of 32mm discs.
I said it in the other thread and I'll say it again. They really need to upscale the blasts now. It was silly how few guys were hit with small blasts before, on 32 mil with 2" spacing it makes things worse for even the large blast.
NAVARRO wrote: Not being cynical or anything but I doubt GW would change bases size just because today 3rd party companies are developing compatible bases..
This is the company that is removing options from codexes that they themselves don't make and have no intention of making just because some other company might do so...
Breotan wrote: You mean I have to re-base all my grots? o.O
Unfortunally yes. While all infantry in general will be required by law to be transferred to 32mm bases, Grots in particular will be required to use the old gorkamorka peanut bases.
This is the company that is removing options from codexes that they themselves don't make and have no intention of making just because some other company might do so...
How dare Apple not make all iPhones compatible with DOS and .pdf!?
StraightSilver wrote: It would be a way to screw over loads of 3rd party manufacturers though as I don't think anybody else makes 32mm round specifically (30mm bevelled but not 32mm round).....
It will take 3rd party makers about a week to catch up with 32mm bases, if that is what is needed.
This is the company that is removing options from codexes that they themselves don't make and have no intention of making just because some other company might do so...
How dare Apple not make all iPhones compatible with DOS and .pdf!?
Erm...what?
That wouldn't even be a valid rebuttal if it were factually accurate.
NAVARRO wrote: Not being cynical or anything but I doubt GW would change bases size just because today 3rd party companies are developing compatible bases..
This is the company that is removing options from codexes that they themselves don't make and have no intention of making just because some other company might do so...
So basically what you're saying here is that GW are not going to make rules for models that other companies will make? I don't see a problem here.
It's not the third-party custom base makers that GW will be squeezing, it's the makers of plain plastic bases that sell for nickels what GW sells for quarters.. Lots of companies like EM4 have acquired plastic molds to older lines of bases or can order from those who have the molds, but a new mold for bases is expensive.
Note that even as GW has been selling hard plastic non-slotted 25mm slanted side plastic bases for over a decade now, yet there are no other companies making such a base. Why? Because it's expensive to make a new mold.
Resin and metal scenic base companies will be quick to jump in, but -especially if 32mm is only for certain units- if GW makes the switch, then they will likely control the market for 32mm round plastic bases for some time.
When Infinity was changing bases sizes there was fear that they would require them to rebase them. Officially the decision was allowed that existing models currently based and out would not need to be rebased. New models would be coming out with the new base sizes. However Infinity also has a template to use whenever there is a discretion when it comes to base size, miniature pose, etc.
I also could see 3rd party simply making a 32mm base that the current base inserts into. Then developing a new 32mm line if needed.
Herzlos wrote: It's almost no work for 3rd parties - just cut 8mm off the 40mm bases.
My concern is GW is going to try and claim ownership of 32mm bases and try to throw their weight around. I can't see it holding up to scrutiny but nothing else they do, does.
Also still nothing stopping companies doing 31/33mm bases that are actually 32mm diameter; I've already got 31/32mm bases I used for Malifaux (sold as 30mm but presumably with some shrinkage overcompensated for in the resin).
It doesn't matter if they actually "own" it. It takes 4 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars to prove otherwise. GW has proven that they're willing to throw away that type of money to enforce their ludicrous ideas.
I'm going on record now to say that even GW aren't dumb enough to claim ownership of 32mm discs.
I would tend to agree, but the oddly specific choice of 32mm still has me wondering. Why not a more standard 30mm? What line of thought led them to pick 32?
I think everybody needs to calm down a bit. Remember that two more base sizes are being sold as well. They are also going to sell 50mm round bases and 170mm oval bases. I think this suggests that there is more to it than GW just doing this out of spite because of some third party seller. If it was purely done just to mess with companies making 25mm round bases then why bother packaging and selling the other two sizes. They must have an alternative reason for it.
NAVARRO wrote: Not being cynical or anything but I doubt GW would change bases size just because today 3rd party companies are developing compatible bases..
This is the company that is removing options from codexes that they themselves don't make and have no intention of making just because some other company might do so...
I know and I'm by no means oblivious of how they handled many other issues, I do think there's more to this than that.
There has been some interesting changes of late at GW... free painting tutorials videos? Free rules inside the boxes? Aggressive boxed sets releases...
The new bases seem to be only for specific models since the stealers are unchanged so IMO it hints to different rules and bases just for some units.
I may be wrong though but its something we will all soon find out.
With bigger bases and bigger models comes bigger tables too?
DarthOvious wrote: I think everybody needs to calm down a bit. Remember that two more base sizes are being sold as well. They are also going to sell 50mm round bases and 170mm oval bases. I think this suggests that there is more to it than GW just doing this out of spite because of some third party seller. If it was purely done just to mess with companies making 25mm round bases then why bother packaging and selling the other two sizes. They must have an alternative reason for it.
50mm round and 170mm oval are not new bases for GW though- they are centurion and knight bases respectively. Just available separately now.
MajorWesJanson wrote: 50mm round and 170mm oval are not new bases for GW though- they are centurion and knight bases respectively. Just available separately now.
While they are at it, they should have released Tyrannocyte's 100mm base separately as well. I want some.
DarthOvious wrote: I think everybody needs to calm down a bit. Remember that two more base sizes are being sold as well. They are also going to sell 50mm round bases and 170mm oval bases. I think this suggests that there is more to it than GW just doing this out of spite because of some third party seller. If it was purely done just to mess with companies making 25mm round bases then why bother packaging and selling the other two sizes. They must have an alternative reason for it.
50mm round and 170mm oval are not new bases for GW though- they are centurion and knight bases respectively. Just available separately now.
Yes, I am aware that they already have models with those bases, but I was pointing out that the fact that they are selling them in bags doesn't mean there is a dark ulterior motive behind it. It just means that they are going to have some models coming out on 32mm bases. That's all.
I would tend to agree, but the oddly specific choice of 32mm still has me wondering. Why not a more standard 30mm? What line of thought led them to pick 32?
Because Armorcast already makes 30mm bases?
Not currently showing in the online store, but they do have the molds for three different 30mm bases. The Armorcast 28mm scale BattleTech Elemental now sold by Iron Wind also comes with a 30mm base.
More likely that this is the new jump infantry base though...
scarletsquig wrote: 32mm would require the purchase of Games Workshop bases. Makes good business sense.
Not really. 3rd party bases are pretty much all resin (and they're generally expensive), so if this happened, there would be new resin 32mm bases pretty quickly. Of course, I would be personally screwed. I have at least 300 25mm resin bases in my collection (unpainted/unused ones).
I would tend to agree, but the oddly specific choice of 32mm still has me wondering. Why not a more standard 30mm? What line of thought led them to pick 32?
Because Armorcast already makes 30mm bases?
Not currently showing in the online store, but they do have the molds for three different 30mm bases. The Armorcast 28mm scale BattleTech Elemental now sold by Iron Wind also comes with a 30mm base.
More likely that this is the new jump infantry base though...
T
Yeah it would seem to bring other jump infantry in line with ones on flying bases (like Gargoyles), and allow mixing and matching of flying and regular bases in those units without size discrepancies.
Pro tip: Smashing your 25mm based infantry with a hammer flattens the plastic base in to roughly 32mm!
Get ahead of GW and their crazy policies with this money saving tip!
I recommend a rubber coated mallet to preserve those painstaking conversions and paint jobs.
MajorWesJanson wrote: 50mm round and 170mm oval are not new bases for GW though- they are centurion and knight bases respectively. Just available separately now.
While they are at it, they should have released Tyrannocyte's 100mm base separately as well. I want some.
MY god please
I wana base my attack bikes, tarantulas, and TFCS forever now :/
I would tend to agree, but the oddly specific choice of 32mm still has me wondering. Why not a more standard 30mm? What line of thought led them to pick 32?
Because Armorcast already makes 30mm bases?
Not currently showing in the online store, but they do have the molds for three different 30mm bases. The Armorcast 28mm scale BattleTech Elemental now sold by Iron Wind also comes with a 30mm base.
It's not just Armorcast, 30mm bases are available from a multitude of makers in both plastic and resin. EM4 has the best deal if you're looking for GW style (slanted side) bases.
If this turns out to be true then I want to be on record predicting GW will soon switch all their games from inches to cubits and sell proprietary cubit rulers and tape measures.
Zywus wrote: While GW is not above overreaching when it comes to their IP, they aren't going to claim copyright on what is basically a 32mm wide cylinder.
We're talking about the company that tried to claim they owned the generic arrow and chevron shapes. Nuff said. Nothing is beyond GW; the only question is whether they'll actually try it.
Assuming those claims were actually made and that's not simply a misunderstanding of the legalese of the chapterhouse case, said claims were presumably summarily rejected by the court.
The reason the chapterhouse case dragged on for a long time and consumed resources were that GW had a case for some of their claims. A copyright claim for a cylinder-shape would need almost no time or resources to refute.
It was in the list of claims, and still had to get as far as a court to be rejected. Maybe they'd stop at after a denied C&D, but I wouldn't put it past them.
Zywus wrote: While GW is not above overreaching when it comes to their IP, they aren't going to claim copyright on what is basically a 32mm wide cylinder.
We're talking about the company that tried to claim they owned the generic arrow and chevron shapes. Nuff said. Nothing is beyond GW; the only question is whether they'll actually try it.
Assuming those claims were actually made and that's not simply a misunderstanding of the legalese of the chapterhouse case, said claims were presumably summarily rejected by the court.
The reason the chapterhouse case dragged on for a long time and consumed resources were that GW had a case for some of their claims. A copyright claim for a cylinder-shape would need almost no time or resources to refute.
It was in the list of claims, and still had to get as far as a court to be rejected. Maybe they'd stop at after a denied C&D, but I wouldn't put it past them.
I kinda doubt that GW would try to claim copyright on a simple arrow shape. Perhaps a shoulderpad or something including an arrow shape.
MajorWesJanson wrote: 50mm round and 170mm oval are not new bases for GW though- they are centurion and knight bases respectively. Just available separately now.
While they are at it, they should have released Tyrannocyte's 100mm base separately as well. I want some.
MY god please
I wana base my attack bikes, tarantulas, and TFCS forever now :/
60mm round is a tad small for attack bikes, but they do fit on them. 100mm round would be too big for an attack bike.
Same is probably true for tarantulas and thunderfire cannons. you can fit an entire drop pod on the 100mm round base.
For thunderfires and Rapiers, I use the fantasy 50mm x 75mm monstrous cav bases.
MajorWesJanson wrote: 50mm round and 170mm oval are not new bases for GW though- they are centurion and knight bases respectively. Just available separately now.
While they are at it, they should have released Tyrannocyte's 100mm base separately as well. I want some.
MY god please
I wana base my attack bikes, tarantulas, and TFCS forever now :/
60mm round is a tad small for attack bikes, but they do fit on them. 100mm round would be too big for an attack bike.
Same is probably true for tarantulas and thunderfire cannons. you can fit an entire drop pod on the 100mm round base.
For thunderfires and Rapiers, I use the fantasy 50mm x 75mm monstrous cav bases.
Would be nice to be able to model a drop pod as if it had landed at an odd angle and ploughed into the ground, 100mm would be just right for that!
Dark Severance wrote: When Infinity was changing bases sizes there was fear that they would require them to rebase them. Officially the decision was allowed that existing models currently based and out would not need to be rebased. New models would be coming out with the new base sizes. However Infinity also has a template to use whenever there is a discretion when it comes to base size, miniature pose, etc.
I also could see 3rd party simply making a 32mm base that the current base inserts into. Then developing a new 32mm line if needed.
Iirc units will need to be in correct 55mm bases for ITS 2016. It was a reprieve so people could rebase with enough time or find another solution (like the base extended disks some people are using), not an exemption for old models.
Zywus wrote: While GW is not above overreaching when it comes to their IP, they aren't going to claim copyright on what is basically a 32mm wide cylinder.
We're talking about the company that tried to claim they owned the generic arrow and chevron shapes. Nuff said. Nothing is beyond GW; the only question is whether they'll actually try it.
Assuming those claims were actually made and that's not simply a misunderstanding of the legalese of the chapterhouse case, said claims were presumably summarily rejected by the court.
The reason the chapterhouse case dragged on for a long time and consumed resources were that GW had a case for some of their claims. A copyright claim for a cylinder-shape would need almost no time or resources to refute.
It was in the list of claims, and still had to get as far as a court to be rejected. Maybe they'd stop at after a denied C&D, but I wouldn't put it past them.
I kinda doubt that GW would try to claim copyright on a simple arrow shape. Perhaps a shoulderpad or something including an arrow shape.
They tried to claim copyright on Roman Numerals in the Chapter House Studios case IIRC.
I wouldn't actually mind a change to 32mm if you just weren't forced to change and it was simply preference. Just new MEQ units being sold with 32mm, and frankly it's a pain at times trying to cram CSM's with squating legs onto their current bases.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: If this turns out to be true then I want to be on record predicting GW will soon switch all their games from inches to cubits and sell proprietary cubit rulers and tape measures.
I'm pretty sure measurements in future GW products will be in "grims".
I'm doing elaborate bases for all my newer miniatures, drilling and pinning them to resin bases (40K), slate, milliput cobblestone (LOTR)...I'm using Army Painter grass tufts, flower tufts, barbed wire...No fething way am I switching base sizes.
This might sense for larger models like Terminators, Centurions, Tyranid Warriors and Obliterators, but not man sized models.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: I'm doing elaborate bases for all my newer miniatures, drilling and pinning them to resin bases (40K), slate, milliput cobblestone (LOTR)...I'm using Army Painter grass tufts, flower tufts, barbed wire...No fething way am I switching base sizes.
This might sense for larger models like Terminators, Centurions, Tyranid Warriors and Obliterators, but not man sized models.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: If this turns out to be true then I want to be on record predicting GW will soon switch all their games from inches to cubits and sell proprietary cubit rulers and tape measures.
I'm pretty sure measurements in future GW products will be in "grims".
Oh come on, "Skulls" surely?!
With blast markers now measured in "Skulls Squared"
Hehehe... this thread is funny and painful all in one!
1) If it is a groundless rumor it certainly makes you think for a minute and feel that flash of anger as you think back on all your models.
2) If it is true, rage-quit may not quite happen but a pointed ignoring them may be the result (GW, you sorry you do not hold tournaments to enforce this now??).
3) Some crazy people may stoically start swapping bases, looking at it as an opportunity to touch-up their models and make them better.
4) The horde army people will look at GW with a crazed look in their eye and say "too bloody bad" and none of us will comment if we know what is good for us.
So yeah, no freak-out or drama really in the cards I figure.
Eilif wrote: Perhaps I missed it, but are folks forgetting the long-held and not-likely-to-change GW rule that you can use whatever base the model was sold with.
I have my doubts about the rumor, but even if it happens, there's no re-basing that will be necessary unless someone wants to.
Since when has the standard not been bases it came with or current base size? Closest of an issue I've seen is square base demons and baby termies on 25mm. People seem to be making an issue of nothing.
So, it seems all marines are represented by the 32mm bases (with terminators on the 40mm obviously). It doesn't appear that the genestealers are so is this going to be something like a marine-specific change to create more contract between them and punier humans?
I think a number of designers have gone on record saying that the current marines are true scale. I just wish their descriptions in the fluff and models were at least consistent!
That picture reminds me of just how much I hate the greco-bowl-cut hairdo they chose for the Blood Angel helmet-less miniatures.
If Marines alone are getting new bases and being scaled up a bit, that's not a bad thing as far as game continuity is concerned. Old timers figures will feel a bit puny, but that's kind of always been the case. It would be fitting for marines to finally be bigger than the average Guardsman.
I think a number of designers have gone on record saying that the current marines are true scale. I just wish their descriptions in the fluff and models were at least consistent!
Do you mean the upcoming marines or the current line? Because either the Marines are true scale or the Imperial Guard are true scale. When you figure in power armor and such they're the same size so both can't be true.
This is of course setting asside the fact that GW hasn't made an imperial miniature with "True Scale" proportions (true height maybe, but not true-scale) in a couple of decades now.
I meant the current line of Space Marines. I know it doesn't make sense, and you're right that IG end up being the same height (though I keep hearing when Marines aren't in a "crapping" position they are a bit taller)... I think it just comes down to the fact that the regular humans GW produces are grossly out of scale- FW does a much better job. I suppose the switch to 32mm bases specifically for just Marines would help drive home the "superhuman" concept a bit more.
If this is true and its compulsory for play I think that will be it for me and 40k, I dont really feel like changing my orks or tyranids from one base to another, granted I could start a new army.
If it's not compulsory there is no fething way that I'll be changing anything.
On another not those Blood Angels there do seem thinner and taller, but I doubt they would true scale it.
Accolade wrote: I meant the current line of Space Marines. I know it doesn't make sense, and you're right that IG end up being the same height (though I keep hearing when Marines aren't in a "crapping" position they are a bit taller)... I think it just comes down to the fact that the regular humans GW produces are grossly out of scale- FW does a much better job. I suppose the switch to 32mm bases specifically for just Marines would help drive home the "superhuman" concept a bit more.
I see.
The GW line about the crapping position is just something they say to distract from the fact that back in '99 or so they made their Plastic Catachans too tall and almost every IG release since then has been of a similar height to the Catachans. Having the marines straighten up might add a smidge to their height, but not much and certainly not enough to put them in proper proportion to IG figures. Most IG are in leaning positions too.
I'll be the first to kick GW around for the inevitable price raise that will accompany true-height marines, but I have to admit that it would be an appropriate resize.
Accolade wrote: I meant the current line of Space Marines. I know it doesn't make sense, and you're right that IG end up being the same height (though I keep hearing when Marines aren't in a "crapping" position they are a bit taller)... I think it just comes down to the fact that the regular humans GW produces are grossly out of scale- FW does a much better job. I suppose the switch to 32mm bases specifically for just Marines would help drive home the "superhuman" concept a bit more.
I see.
The GW line about the crapping position is just something they say to distract from the fact that back in '99 or so they made their Plastic Catachans too tall and almost every IG release since then has been of a similar height to the Catachans. Having the marines straighten up might add a smidge to their height, but not much and certainly not enough to put them in proper proportion to IG figures. Most IG are in leaning positions too.
I'll be the first to kick GW around for the inevitable price raise that will accompany true-height marines, but I have to admit that it would be an appropriate resize.
You're right about the re-positioning of the legs, it doesn't do a whole ton. The "good news" for GW is most of their IG troop line is pretty bad and out-of-date, so they have the opportunity to shrink down any new IG troop kits if they're working on a re-sizing of of the game (via 32mm bases), and at least they would be consistent with Forgeworld.
So, it seems all marines are represented by the 32mm bases (with terminators on the 40mm obviously). It doesn't appear that the genestealers are so is this going to be something like a marine-specific change to create more contract between them and punier humans?
I think a number of designers have gone on record saying that the current marines are true scale. I just wish their descriptions in the fluff and models were at least consistent!
So I guess combining the new tax squad preview with Deathstorm we know that marines are moving to 32mm.
Gene stealers still being on 25mm suggests it's not a new normal base size for most infantry.
Hmm...40 conscripts, 60 guardsmen, 40 veteran guardsmen, several command/platoon squads and psykers/priests/commissars... Yeah... No.. I'll stick to the 25mm bases.
That would have the interesting result that GW is still making 25mm scale models! With a 7 foot marine being 28-29mm to-the-eye, a human would be around 25mm to the eye. And since millimeter scales are based on the height to the eye of an average sized man….
That would have the interesting result that GW is still making 25mm scale models! With a 7 foot marine being 28-29mm to-the-eye, a human would be around 25mm to the eye. And since millimeter scales are based on the height to the eye of an average sized man….
And even then, the marines are only 28mm to the eyes because they're in a near squatting position. Find on that is standing upright (I've got one of the old metal Masters of the Chapter on my desk now to measure), and they're 32mm to the eyes.
Breotan wrote: I wonder if the change in base size is partially to screw over all those 3rd party "scenic base" companies?
A million million times this.
Games Workshop is sick of other smallish kickstarter companies like the Polish Micro Art Studio and others selling pretty cool looking bases on sites like Waylandgames and making lots of money.
So GW, in their incredible wisdom, thinks changing the base size of 40k will put those companies out of business because hey... who will then buy their 25mm scenic bases anymore?
Aside from the fact that GW knows they cant make the transition from one day to another and that'll take at least a year, this still leaves out the simple fact that Micro Art Studios and friends can just start selling scenic 32mm bases....lol
Seriously, I absolutely LOATHE inconsistency when it comes to models. I have some old-style Terminators that I'm never going to paint/use because they look like crap compared to the newer models and do not mesh well with them at all, in base size or model dimensions.
I really hope this is just a tighter angling of the legs or anything other than a bigger base. Or that no-one buy the new kits and they don't screw this up for future kits too.
Normally I'm not one to complain about the stuff that GW does, but this really annoys me. They should know full-well how picky modellers can be.
I don't think so! 30+ years of standard 28mm gaming that the regular unit uses 25 mm base CONTINIOUSLY means that it shouldn't be reworked. what makes the 32mm rounded rim base represents better combat 'realism' than the classic 25mm?
scarletsquig wrote: 32mm would require the purchase of Games Workshop bases. Makes good business sense.
For like a week, then everyone ansd their mother will start selling 32mm bases as well. And it's not like gw really even produces scenic bases anyways.
I don't see why, for example, Imperial Guardsmen, Ork boys or Tau Firewarriors would need them.
The new bases are a bit perplexing though, the oddest one is the Broodlord. I'm really not sure why he isn't on a 40 or 50. I think the SM look better on those bases but I'm unsure whether it's such a better look as to require massive amounts of modelling work.
I wonder if FW marines will be getting this update.
I really think it's just a marine thing. There's no reason for only the Death Company in Deathstorm to have them if all infantry is going that way, this is clearly an immediate change.
They do look better on those bases the old 25mm bases looked undersized. It will be interesting to see which other models switch to the new 32mm size.
This is hardly the first time GW have done this, GW have done this with countless kits over the years. It's not even the first time it's happened to Tactical Marines, they lost their option for hex bases (as did everyone else) in 2nd edition.
The great GW conspiracy continues. They just made a marine kit so does it means randomly all the new kits will have bigger bases?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZPqPWC5aQs
Well, it doesn't make sense that they would just make one random Blood Angels tactical squad box 32mm, so people are trying to figure out what the longer term plan to this is. I mean, it's not like GW just made this one random kit 32mm for s and giggles...that being said, that would be the craziest, most trolltastic thing ever done by GW...perhaps the new CEO is making his mark!
Spite, apparently. Screwing over third party "parasites" making money by selling a product designed to enhance their product. And hey, if everyone not using scenic bases goes out and buys the new base packs to rebase their old models then all the better.
a fat guy wrote: Normally I'm not one to complain about the stuff that GW does, but this really annoys me. They should know full-well how picky modellers can be.
Not Games Workshop. They're fully convinced that you're just a goober and you'll buy all their product regardless, presumably not to paint or play the game with but just to goober over. Buying their product is your hobby and it's all amazing because it has the GW logo on it.
Also, maybe a new base size is a good excuse to start doing random repacking of older kits...which could be another opportunity for GW to start raising prices without going back to the annual increases they used to do and without necessarily having to tie them to a codex release. A little "tinfoil hat" admittedly, but still, not something I'd be surprised to see from this donkey-cave company.
My money's on the "Its to spite 3rd party scenic base makers" theory.
Theres a precedent for this, they've changed their own business practices in the past to spite 3rd parties, like deleting Special Characters from Codexes that they hadn't produced models for but Chapter House Studios has, etc.
If true, its fething hilarious, because GW will be creating a new market niche for 32 mm scenic bases.
All you have to do is ask yourself why they didn't go with 30mm since every other base of theirs is a multiple of 5mm... Could it be that 30mm is already a standard size for other games and there are plenty of companies that make bases in that size?
Of course, it's also possible that 32mm was picked to split the difference between 25mm and 40mm. But my skeptical side just doesn't buy it.
Sorry, but the third party base theory just doesn't hold water, it isn't a handful of massive producers, it's lots of little makers who are accustomed to producing new product regularly and are well suited to adapt.
It might annoy the third party makers, and it may take a few weeks or months for them to adapt their ranges, but nobody has speculated any other new base design was in order to screw over third party manufacturers, and I fail to see how this one is any different.
Azreal13 wrote: Sorry, but the third party base theory just doesn't hold water, it isn't a handful of massive producers, it's lots of little makers who are accustomed to producing new product regularly and are well suited to adapt.
It might annoy the third party makers, and it may take a few weeks or months for them to adapt their ranges, but nobody has speculated any other new base design was in order to screw over third party manufacturers, and I fail to see how this one is any different.
I agree with you, Azreal. At the very least, I think GW is trying to distance themselves from focusing their business model away from antagonizing third party bits makers (which was a fething stupid plan in the first place, but I digress) and so I can't fathom some covert plan to undermind third parties with the blood still fresh in their collective corporate broken nose.
I think this is just part of a plan of continued reworking of 40k- bumping Space Marines up in base size, going through a much-expedited rule release cycle....I think GW is moving towards a concept of the game as they envision it, I just don't know what that concept is. But I'm willing to bet these bases have some (albeit minor) role in that goal.
But then why change the bases, especially when they already had enough variety to cover most of the model types as it was? They even came up with a new base for the carnifex and that thing has been doing just fine on the one it came with for the better part of a decade now. Is there literally no reason?
I realize this isn't the first time they've changed or introduced new bases, but it's the first that legitimately makes no sense to me. Changing old square bases for models like bikes to a long oval one that matches the round bases for other 40k models, that made sense. Introducing a larger oval base for big monsters, flyers, and the like, that makes sense. Coming up with a new socket for the flying bases because the old one was prone to breaking, that makes sense. But a new 105mm oval base for a model that fit just fine on a 60mm round? New 32mm bases for models that not only fit on the old 25mm base but have been using that base size for a very long time?
Sidstyler wrote: But then why change the bases, especially when they already had enough variety to cover most of the model types as it was? They even came up with a new base for the carnifex and that thing has been doing just fine on the one it came with for the better part of a decade now. Is there literally no reason?
I realize this isn't the first time they've changed or introduced new bases, but it's the first that legitimately makes no sense to me. Changing old square bases for models like bikes to a long oval one that matches the round bases for other 40k models, that made sense. Introducing a larger oval base for big monsters, flyers, and the like, that makes sense. Coming up with a new socket for the flying bases because the old one was prone to breaking, that makes sense. But a new 105mm oval base for a model that fit just fine on a 60mm round? New 32mm bases for models that not only fit on the old 25mm base but have been using that base size for a very long time?
MEQ's don't really "fit" on 25mm bases. They kinda hang over the edge and for those that like to decorate their bases, there really isn't a whole lot to work with. Plus it means less guys covered in blast templates, so that's useful.
That would have the interesting result that GW is still making 25mm scale models! With a 7 foot marine being 28-29mm to-the-eye, a human would be around 25mm to the eye. And since millimeter scales are based on the height to the eye of an average sized man….
And even then, the marines are only 28mm to the eyes because they're in a near squatting position. Find on that is standing upright (I've got one of the old metal Masters of the Chapter on my desk now to measure), and they're 32mm to the eyes.
I was being a bit facetious. Still, if we take your measurement and say an average Chapter master would be about 7.5 feet tall (space marines being 7-8 feet) and if he's 32mm to the eye, then an average male (5'9" according to the interwebs) should be almost exactly 25mm to the eye. Put another way, a 32mm to the eye Space Marine is 25mm scale!
Azreal13 wrote:Sorry, but the third party base theory just doesn't hold water, it isn't a handful of massive producers, it's lots of little makers who are accustomed to producing new product regularly and are well suited to adapt.
It might annoy the third party makers, and it may take a few weeks or months for them to adapt their ranges, but nobody has speculated any other new base design was in order to screw over third party manufacturers, and I fail to see how this one is any different.
But it does hold water, you're just looking at the wrong 3rd party suppliers. GW doesn't care about the resin base makers because they don't make a product that GW does. GW doesn't make many scenic bases. What they do make is packs of basic plastic bases, and that's what other companies are also doing and taking business that GW would like to have . For many years GW has sold plastic bases, but folks have largely gone elsewhere. If GW switches to 32mm infantry bases, they're the only game in town making them, and it's unlikely that another company will be quick to pony up the money for the tooling necessary to make them.
They've already nearly corned the market on biker bases (proxie makes them, but not the same chisel edge style) flat top 25mm non-slottas, and a couple other sizes and they've been testing the waters with larger bases with some of the odd sized 50mm + sizes they've used for heavy weapons, etc over the past 6 years or so. I wouldn't be surprised if GW slowly switched most 40k bases over to proprietary sizes. It makes perfect business sense and no one can really accuse them of sticking it to their players since GW has always let you use whatever base the model was sold with even if it's changed since then. Not to mention the fact that so many models really would fit better on a larger base.
skarsol wrote: Interesting that only Marines get better protection from blast templates.
I wounder if I need to now rebase me 30k mariens, or if they keep the 25mm. Might need to e-mail FW in a week when these new bases are in people's hands.
also of note, the warriors are on a new 50mm base.
I would be surprised if they made all standard 25mm models move to 32mm. I don't care what they say I will NOT move all 120 something metal Steel Legion and Mordains to new bases nor my 5 2000 pts plus armies of current Space Marines . I also just order 25mm scenic bases for my Raven Guard...
adamsouza wrote: It makes some sense to have bulky models on a larger base.
I'm not buying ALL models changed to 32mm, and I mean that literaly as well as figuratively as well. Who in their right mind would want to rebase an entire collection from 25 to 32mm ?
GW doesn't want you rebasing; you MUST buy a whole new army at the increased base scale (at increased cost, of course).
Actually, it makes sense with all the talk of scale creep they've supposedly had in their miniature line. Stuff just doesn't fit on the bases any more.
Ruberu wrote: I would be surprised if they made all standard 25mm models move to 32mm. I don't care what they say I will NOT move all 120 something metal Steel Legion and Mordains to new bases nor my 5 2000 pts plus armies of current Space Marines . I also just order 25mm scenic bases for my Raven Guard...
This isn't even an issue in a tournament. Models are permitted on the original size base that the model came with, or the current size base. The most significant base sizing issue I ever see is old terminators that were on 25mm bases, which you still here and there. They're still legit.
From an aesthetic standpoint, I far prefer Privateer Press 28mm lipped bases to GW 25mm beveled bases, because they just look better. On the other hand, I own hundreds of unused resin 25mm bases. Oh well, I own thousands of unpainted miniatures that came with 25mm bases, so I guess I'll live.
However, it would be so nice to put some of the bulkier models onto 32mm resin bases (like librarians, modified guys with standards, etc.). I guess as soon SWM starts to make 'em, I'll be putting an order big enough for free shipping order :|
Companies like Lithko Aero, who make bases from laser cut plywood or MDF, can start turning out 32mm round bases in about 10 minutes if people want to buy them.
Talys wrote: The most significant base sizing issue I ever see is old terminators that were on 25mm bases, which you still here and there. They're still legit.
I have about 25 old termies on those bases still. I just cant take them off, they just look small on the new bases .
Also, for anyone still doubting. While I suspect the cost is relatively low to make a plastic injection mold for something as simple as bases, it's still a cost that they wouldn't just do for one or two boxes.
Then again, I'm already ahead of them, I've got minis using 35mm bases.
cygnnus wrote: All you have to do is ask yourself why they didn't go with 30mm since every other base of theirs is a multiple of 5mm... Could it be that 30mm is already a standard size for other games and there are plenty of companies that make bases in that size?
Of course, it's also possible that 32mm was picked to split the difference between 25mm and 40mm. But my skeptical side just doesn't buy it.
GW's small flying bases are already 32mm, so it would be silly to have both 30mm and 32mm bases. No mystery here.
I'm fine with the change, it makes sense, however I will not rebase any of my models, nor would I expect other players to do so either. If you want to that's fine, I'll just base the new models with their 32mm bases and have a mix of base sizes in my BA Army. I don't think I'll buy 32mm for any un-built kits that I have I'll just use the bases that came with.
Correct me if I'm wrong but even GW allows you to use their older models in your army ie old metal Terminators on the small infantry base right? I don't particularly like them on the old bases nor do I even like the old terminators as compared to the new so I upgraded mine to the new plastics with the large bases they came with.
GW is pleasantly surprising me this year with keeping leaks down to a minimum, and stumping most of us at their releases. I absolutely dislike models falling over because the base it was given is too small. So I'm for it!
Souleater wrote: I wouldn't mind rebasing my Hormagaunts on slightly larger bases.
I would, most of them are glued in slotted bases... if the slotting tab snaps off (which it almost certainly will) then it'll just be an even bigger pain in the arse.
cygnnus wrote: All you have to do is ask yourself why they didn't go with 30mm since every other base of theirs is a multiple of 5mm... Could it be that 30mm is already a standard size for other games and there are plenty of companies that make bases in that size?
Of course, it's also possible that 32mm was picked to split the difference between 25mm and 40mm. But my skeptical side just doesn't buy it.
GW's small flying bases are already 32mm, so it would be silly to have both 30mm and 32mm bases. No mystery here.
I'd forgotten about the size of the flying bases. Good point there. With all of GW's recent shenanigans, I'm still not convinced this isn't another attempt to try to lock 3rd party manufacturers a out of the "GW hobby", but that certainly provides a solid counter point.
Odd that I forgot, though, since all my Seraphim are on GW flying bases and I used 1.25" fender washers glued to the bases to keep them stable.
I really hope third-party manufacturers are following this thread closely. The first one to make hollow 32mm bases with an open top will make a fortune.
Kelly502 wrote: I'm fine with the change, it makes sense, however I will not rebase any of my models, nor would I expect other players to do so either. If you want to that's fine, I'll just base the new models with their 32mm bases and have a mix of base sizes in my BA Army. I don't think I'll buy 32mm for any un-built kits that I have I'll just use the bases that came with
This is the biggest problem I have with the size changes. My old 25mm BA tactical squad is going to look weird alongside the new 32mm squad and I like consistency across my armies. I just hope we get some kind of confirmation from GW that this is only applying to all Space Marines going forward or wether the changes are going to include other armies.
Sir Arun wrote:
Personally I think there'll be more players remounting the new BA on old bases than players updating their other armies to the new bases lol.
Not that it matters unless you're in a GW tournament, but that would be illegal because the rule is it has to be either the current base or the base the model was sold with. This new kit of BA will only be sold with 32mm and so will only be legally based on 32mm.
Kelly502 wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but even GW allows you to use their older models in your army ie old metal Terminators on the small infantry base right? I don't particularly like them on the old bases nor do I even like the old terminators as compared to the new so I upgraded mine to the new plastics with the large bases they came with.
You are correct. GW has always allowed you to use the size of base the model was sold with even if it's not the same as current models. I've got a bunch of old metal termies I've been meaning to paint up. I'm going to put them on 25mm's. I'd rather put them on something slightly larger, but the only choices are 25 and 40 and they are so small they look silly on 40mm bases.
Worst part is if this is standard new runs of marine boxes are just going to get new base sizes out of no where. decisions decisions for new players and armies when their 3rd box is on different bases.
Azreal13 wrote:Sorry, but the third party base theory just doesn't hold water, it isn't a handful of massive producers, it's lots of little makers who are accustomed to producing new product regularly and are well suited to adapt.
It might annoy the third party makers, and it may take a few weeks or months for them to adapt their ranges, but nobody has speculated any other new base design was in order to screw over third party manufacturers, and I fail to see how this one is any different.
But it does hold water, you're just looking at the wrong 3rd party suppliers. GW doesn't care about the resin base makers because they don't make a product that GW does. GW doesn't make many scenic bases. What they do make is packs of basic plastic bases, and that's what other companies are also doing and taking business that GW would like to have . For many years GW has sold plastic bases, but folks have largely gone elsewhere. If GW switches to 32mm infantry bases, they're the only game in town making them, and it's unlikely that another company will be quick to pony up the money for the tooling necessary to make them.
They've already nearly corned the market on biker bases (proxie makes them, but not the same chisel edge style) flat top 25mm non-slottas, and a couple other sizes and they've been testing the waters with larger bases with some of the odd sized 50mm + sizes they've used for heavy weapons, etc over the past 6 years or so. I wouldn't be surprised if GW slowly switched most 40k bases over to proprietary sizes. It makes perfect business sense and no one can really accuse them of sticking it to their players since GW has always let you use whatever base the model was sold with even if it's changed since then. Not to mention the fact that so many models really would fit better on a larger base.
I really don't see that bases are in any way all that expensive to produce, even in plastic, I mean, sure, they will require a new mould, but it isn't like it's a massively complex affair like a kit, it's just a bunch of geometric shapes.
No, I stand by my original point, anyone making bases for a living will, at worst, be only mildly inconvenienced by this until they can get up to speed on making 32mm circles, or alternatively continue making bases for all the thousands of models that don't require a 32mm base.
There is simply no way this is the first shot in GW's new plan to eviscerate the third party base industry, it is just too much of a stretch.
I'm as much a GW hater as the next spanker, but could it be that GW will now be providing bases that are designed to fit the models that are on top of them? How many times have you put a model on a 25mm base and had the feet stick out over the lip? In regards to the 3rd party base maker debate I really doubt this is a slight towards them since GW doesn't sell resin bases and would not realistically ask the community to re-base their armies. There are plenty of things to get upset about with GW this Christmas season, such as 14 Hobbit Dwarf minis for $200, but this isn't one of them.
I wonder if GW is going to start selling bags of 32mm bases...
Crimson wrote: I really hope third-party manufacturers are following this thread closely. The first one to make hollow 32mm bases with an open top will make a fortune.
Kimchi Gamer wrote: I'm as much a GW hater as the next spanker, but could it be that GW will now be providing bases that are designed to fit the models that are on top of them? How many times have you put a model on a 25mm base and had the feet stick out over the lip? In regards to the 3rd party base maker debate I really doubt this is a slight towards them since GW doesn't sell resin bases and would not realistically ask the community to re-base their armies. There are plenty of things to get upset about with GW this Christmas season, such as 14 Hobbit Dwarf minis for $200, but this isn't one of them.
I'm only upset because this should have came earlier when they relaunched half the space marine models including the tactical box.
Also I never even thought about the lip of the foot hanging off being annoying til people brought it up.
I agree with the other posters guessing that the new bases will be reserved for jump pack or bulky infantry units.
Arbitrarily changing the size of the most common base in the game for no reason would be a monumental mistake, even by GW standards.
All players, new or old, will be effected and rightly annoyed by the change. It would be a fantastic way to further alienate the player base from the company.
B0B MaRlEy wrote: I didn't see it mentionned, but the carnifex is also on a new base
You didn't look too hard.
In all fairness to you, the bitching about the Carnifex base change may be in the Tryanid and Blood Angels threads, as Deathstorm's contents are being heavily discussed in both.
This more than anything else annoys me. Im not rebasing all my models because GW is trying to screw 3rd party senic base makers. I can't WAIT till im at some tourney with prize support and that guy try's to get me DQ'd for illegal base sizes.
Orock wrote: This more than anything else annoys me. Im not rebasing all my models because GW is trying to screw 3rd party senic base makers. I can't WAIT till im at some tourney with prize support and that guy try's to get me DQ'd for illegal base sizes.
As has been mentioned many, many times already, you won't have to. I think some of you are just trying to invent drama.
Orock wrote: This more than anything else annoys me. Im not rebasing all my models because GW is trying to screw 3rd party senic base makers. I can't WAIT till im at some tourney with prize support and that guy try's to get me DQ'd for illegal base sizes.
As has been mentioned many, many times already, you won't have to. I think some of you are just trying to invent drama.
There is always the possibility that GW might suddenly declare that now you have to use the most current base size for their events.
Whether or not any non-GW tournaments would give a flying feth about such a declaration from GW is another matter entirely.
Accolade wrote: I wonder if GW is going to start selling bags of 32mm bases...
They are. There's a bag of 10 available to pre-order right now.
Edit: ah, actually there's a bag of 10 showing up in the search in their site, but if you try to open the actual page for that item, it just gives an error at the moment
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/32mm-Round-Bases-x10
Someone could easily make the argument that with smaller bases, you can fit more guys into meelee and get an advantage. Now obviously with larger bases less of your guys are vulnerable to small blast templates as well. This is just a piss poor thought out idea.
Orn wrote: This more than anything else annoys me. Im not rebasing all my models because GW is trying to screw 3rd party senic base makers. I can't WAIT till im at some tourney with prize support and that guy try's to get me DQ'd for illegal base sizes.
As has been mentioned many, many times already, you won't have to. I think some of you are just trying to invent drama.
You're naive to think it won't happen. It may not be the big name tournies but I've been to local ones where they did require you to be on current bases. I've also had newer players who never played during the older editions who told me that both my 25mm based termies and my RT landraider were illegal. Don't underestimate the ignorance of the playerbase and tourny organizers since tgey are drawn from that same playerbase. I don't expect it to become a common issue though for at least 4-5 years though.
Exactly, it's not going to happen overnight, but 4-5 years from now you may see the 32mm everywhere. If GW even survives that long.
Besides, if basic SM tacticals get repackaged with the new bases, how will you know if your opponent is just claiming he bought his before the "Great Base Change of 2014" instead of after? At least with the old terminators, you can tell that they're the old terminators.
Tannhauser42 wrote: Besides, if basic SM tacticals get repackaged with the new bases, how will you know if your opponent is just claiming he bought his before the "Great Base Change of 2014" instead of after?
If you bothered to read my whole post, you would understand my point is that, in time, if all marines use the new base, how will you prove to a tournament organizer that your marines with 25mm bases were bought before the change? I personally couldn't care less, but others are far more competitive than I.
Tannhauser42 wrote: If you bothered to read my whole post, you would understand my point is that, in time, if all marines use the new base, how will you prove to a tournament organizer that your marines with 25mm bases were bought before the change?
You can't and no sane person would ask you to do so.
I personally couldn't care less, but others are far more competitive than I.
Then this is an easy way to find out that they are not the sort of people one wants to play with.
Orock wrote: This more than anything else annoys me. Im not rebasing all my models because GW is trying to screw 3rd party senic base makers. I can't WAIT till im at some tourney with prize support and that guy try's to get me DQ'd for illegal base sizes.
As has been mentioned many, many times already, you won't have to. I think some of you are just trying to invent drama.
In my experience, models having to be on proper bases is super important in tournaments for games like Warhammer Fantesy and Warmahoards. If your TO is use to running tournament format for thows games he will put the same expectation on the 40k tournament.
I have played in tournments were if you use the old metal terminators, your expected to have them based on the 40mm base like the current models for example.
The reasoning is that well Warhammer 40k isn't as balanced as thows games were base sizes can make a huge difference, the base size of models still has a impact on the game. For friendly pick up games, no one is going to care. For tournaments, you will need to just hear what your TO expects of people.
Well playing friendly pick up games I won't care if your guys are on the 25mm base, it would bug me if I was playing ageist you in a tournament setting and your guys are not on the current base size for the unit.
What happens when you have a 5 man squad, 3 25 mm bases and 2 32 mm bases? You can use the 32mm bases inbetween each 25mm to protect you from templates a bit better, and sacrifice them first so when you get to meelee the 25 mm bases fit in better. Our stores that guy blood angels player is already planning on doing just that with his "new" death company and "old" death company models.
This potential move reminds me of the following school-yard scenario
Child A: ''Can I play POGs with you guys?''
Child B: ''Sure, do you have your own ones?''
Child A: ''Yea I do!''
Child B: ''Oh, those are the old release from last week, we can't play with those''
Child A: ''Why's that? They're the same''
Child B: ''Well, no the shiny POGs in the current edition are slightly less grippy and so they play differently, also they're a little bit bigger in diameter''
Child A: ''But does it matter? I can still play can't I?''
Child B: ''No you need to buy the newer, slightly larger ones, go away''
A week later
Child A: ''I've got the new slightly larger new edition POGs now, can I play''
Child B: ''Oh, yesterday they released a new edition where the slammers are slightly bigger, you don't have one so no you can't.''
People have played Square based daemons for years. If there was a serious issue you use a proxy base to resolve the issue than return to the game as usual.
The situations where having a 7mm difference in base sizes will actually make a difference in game are much more likely to occur in hypothetical situations than in any real game occurance.
One problem I can forsee is fitting models onto the upper levels of ruins. It was always a pain getting my big squads of devastators and scouts to fit on the upper floors.
There is always the possibility that GW might suddenly declare that now you have to use the most current base size for their events.
Whether or not any non-GW tournaments would give a flying feth about such a declaration from GW is another matter entirely.
Seeing as they have never done this before, I don't see why anyone would draw that conclusion.
It would be totally impractical anyhow, because all of the stores, GW and otherwise, have product on the shelf that's 25mm, and it's not as if scout squad boxes fly off the shelves.
Wulfmar wrote: There are many situations where having an extra 7mm makes all the difference.
I'm not of the opinion that Warhammer bases is one of them
Spoiler:
In all honesty, I'm all up for the 32mm bases: it means extra "diorama" space and miniatures actually fitting inside the base. I don't believe we'll either be forced to re-base any miniature nor that there will be too many complaints if the minis aren't using one of those shiny new 32mm either because, ya know, people were playing before "The Great Bloody Base Revolution of 12-2014".
And if someone does, we now know someone we may not want to play. Ever!
Lockark wrote: In my experience, models having to be on proper bases is super important in tournaments for games like Warhammer Fantesy and Warmahoards. If your TO is use to running tournament format for thows games he will put the same expectation on the 40k tournament.
I have played in tournments were if you use the old metal terminators, your expected to have them based on the 40mm base like the current models for example.
The reasoning is that well Warhammer 40k isn't as balanced as thows games were base sizes can make a huge difference, the base size of models still has a impact on the game. For friendly pick up games, no one is going to care. For tournaments, you will need to just hear what your TO expects of people.
GW rules are original base or current base. Of course, people can say whatever they want for their own games, but a tournament that insists that all units be rebased to 32mm would be an empty tournament. You can't even *buy* the vast majority of units in 32mm, or buy 32mm blanks. And no store operator is going to say, "you can't play with any of the 25mm models on our shelf", because then they would not sell anything
What you're describing is something 5 or more years from now, when stores exhausted most inventory, and GW has transitioned *everything* to new bases. And probably 10th edition rules. Even then, private tournaments would likely follow GW tournaments on this.
Base size matters or Termies wouldn't be on 40mm. If GW was sane like other titles with standard bases for unit types the size would relate to a clear threat range.
In all honesty, I'm all up for the 32mm bases: it means extra "diorama" space and miniatures actually fitting inside the base. I don't believe we'll either be forced to re-base any miniature nor that there will be too many complaints if the minis aren't using one of those shiny new 32mm either because, ya know, people were playing before "The Great Bloody Base Revolution of 12-2014".
And if someone does, we now know someone we may not want to play. Ever!
Yeah, from a modelling standpoint, it's a no brainer. There are many 25mm base models that literally have no space to do anything on, or where the model tips over unweighted (like standard bearers).
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Theduke07 wrote: Base size matters or Termies wouldn't be on 40mm. If GW was sane like other titles with standard bases for unit types the size would relate to a clear threat range.
Except, not really, because you can still play old termies on 25mm.
When termies went 40mm, the models actually got a lot bigger. You can't fit a new terminator on a 25mm base. The old terminators were only slightly bulkier than regular space marines.
Talys wrote: What you're describing is something 5 or more years from now, when stores exhausted most inventory, and GW has transitioned *everything* to new bases. And probably 10th edition rules. Even then, private tournaments would likely follow GW tournaments on this.
GW is running Tournaments Again?
I thought they did not Sponsor Tournaments anymore?
Theduke07 wrote: Base size matters or Termies wouldn't be on 40mm. If GW was sane like other titles with standard bases for unit types the size would relate to a clear threat range.
Termies are on 40mm bases because of scale creep of the models made them look stupid on 25mm bases and GW already produced 40mm bases.
Also termies gained 15mm on a 25mm base, that's more than a 50% increase in size, and it's still legal to use 25mm bases on your old models.
The 7mm difference on the new tacticals would require a situation where 5 of them were shoulder to shoulder in a straight line before the difference equaled a single base length.
Termies are on 40mm bases because of scale creep of the models made them look stupid on 25mm bases and GW already produced 40mm bases.
Also termies gained 15mm on a 25mm base, that's more than a 50% increase in size, and it's still legal to use 25mm bases on your old models.
The 7mm difference on the new tacticals would require a situation where 5 of them were shoulder to shoulder in a straight line before the difference equaled a single base length.
My wife says every inch counts.
Seriously, though, like I said, the original terminators were barely bigger than normal space marines; in fact many heroes were larger and bulkier than terminators. The new terminators correctly look more like lumbering hulks, and are a much better aesthetic, appearing much bigger and tougher than "mere" space marines (and certainly flak-vest-wearing IG).
If they start releasing troop size miniatures in poses where 32mm would be an advantage (without bulking up the model), that would be great!
Talys wrote: What you're describing is something 5 or more years from now, when stores exhausted most inventory, and GW has transitioned *everything* to new bases. And probably 10th edition rules. Even then, private tournaments would likely follow GW tournaments on this.
GW is running Tournaments Again?
I thought they did not Sponsor Tournaments anymore?
Perhaps I was being imprecise. I meant, Warhammer 40k tournaments held at Games Workshop stores. For instance, in December 2014, there is a 2000 point 40k tournament in the Canadian west coast Games Workshop store:
In march, there was a 1000 pt tournament, and in July, there was a 1500 point tournament. My understanding is that models are allowed on original release base, or current base. What actually makes much more difference than a 7mm or even 25 to 40mm is the oval versus round bases, because the surface area difference for blast is huge. And then, of course, facing issues.
Lockark wrote: In my experience, models having to be on proper bases is super important in tournaments for games like Warhammer Fantesy and Warmahoards. If your TO is use to running tournament format for thows games he will put the same expectation on the 40k tournament.
I have played in tournments were if you use the old metal terminators, your expected to have them based on the 40mm base like the current models for example.
The reasoning is that well Warhammer 40k isn't as balanced as thows games were base sizes can make a huge difference, the base size of models still has a impact on the game. For friendly pick up games, no one is going to care. For tournaments, you will need to just hear what your TO expects of people.
GW rules are original base or current base. Of course, people can say whatever they want for their own games, but a tournament that insists that all units be rebased to 32mm would be an empty tournament. You can't even *buy* the vast majority of units in 32mm, or buy 32mm blanks. And no store operator is going to say, "you can't play with any of the 25mm models on our shelf", because then they would not sell anything
What you're describing is something 5 or more years from now, when stores exhausted most inventory, and GW has transitioned *everything* to new bases. And probably 10th edition rules. Even then, private tournaments would likely follow GW tournaments on this.
Why yes. I am talking about the senario when boxes off the shelf have 32mm bases in them.
That's what this thread is about. The fact SM boxes are starting to be packaged with 32 MM bases.
=/
Also alot of times GW tournments are ran realy piss poor.
Orock wrote: What happens when you have a 5 man squad, 3 25 mm bases and 2 32 mm bases? You can use the 32mm bases inbetween each 25mm to protect you from templates a bit better, and sacrifice them first so when you get to meelee the 25 mm bases fit in better. Our stores that guy blood angels player is already planning on doing just that with his "new" death company and "old" death company models.
See it's stuff like that, is why tournments will need to make these kind of ruleings. The RAW rules says that this BA players is totally with-in the rules for what he has done. Because RAW rules allowed him to modle for advantage and mix the base sizes.
40k is the only game were that's even a thing you can do. Every other game on the market have stated base sizes a unit MUST be mounted on. Alot of rule sets even list this base size in the unit entry.
Like for a pick-up game it's not a big deal, because if someone is being a tool like that, you just don't play ageist him. That's why I even said in a pick-up game i wouldn't care if someone's army was still on the 25mm bases. It's very diffrent in a tournment setting. This is why TO's will be forced to make calls like this ALOT sooner then 5 years from now. If the whole BA army is having it's bases changed out in this release, with the normal SM kits soon after, your going to start seeing mixed base armies realy soon.
The whole issue with base sizes is only a tournament drama thing, not a weekend pick-up game issue.
Azreal13 wrote: I really don't see that bases are in any way all that expensive to produce, even in plastic, I mean, sure, they will require a new mould, but it isn't like it's a massively complex affair like a kit, it's just a bunch of geometric shapes.
No, I stand by my original point, anyone making bases for a living will, at worst, be only mildly inconvenienced by this until they can get up to speed on making 32mm circles, or alternatively continue making bases for all the thousands of models that don't require a 32mm base.
There is simply no way this is the first shot in GW's new plan to eviscerate the third party base industry, it is just too much of a stretch.
Resin aside as we both agree that resin makers will adapt quickly.
A plastic mold is doable in-house for GW, but I don't think you realize how expensive it is to have a third party make a mold for plastic of the precision necessary. It's not going to come from a small operation like Proxie. Eventually some company will do it, but GW is going to have the corner on plastic 32mm's for a while. Even when someone else does get around to doing a mold for plastic it will be GW and that company. It's going to be a long while before there are as many producers of 32mm bases as their are of plastic slottas today.
Right now there's a glut of plastic slottas available because they are produced on old tooling mostly coming from earlier big game companies like Warzone and such from the 90's. No such 2nd hand tooling exists for 32mm bases.
GW doesn't give a care about resin base makers, but they can get at least a year or so of being the sole maker of 32mm plastics and many more years of being one of a few. It's a great strategy for them and guarantees some additional income for a while.
Theduke07 wrote: Base size matters or Termies wouldn't be on 40mm. If GW was sane like other titles with standard bases for unit types the size would relate to a clear threat range.
Termies are on 40mm bases because of scale creep of the models made them look stupid on 25mm bases and GW already produced 40mm bases.
Also termies gained 15mm on a 25mm base, that's more than a 50% increase in size, and it's still legal to use 25mm bases on your old models.
The 7mm difference on the new tacticals would require a situation where 5 of them were shoulder to shoulder in a straight line before the difference equaled a single base length.
I wasent allowed to use my old broadsides at a tourney, because of their base size. I dident end up going, but it was still enforced.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: One problem I can forsee is fitting models onto the upper levels of ruins. It was always a pain getting my big squads of devastators and scouts to fit on the upper floors.
That can be easily solved by buying the new "True Scale" ruin kits that GW are bringing out next year.
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Theduke07 wrote: Base size matters or Termies wouldn't be on 40mm. If GW was sane like other titles with standard bases for unit types the size would relate to a clear threat range.
Terminators were on 25mm bases until about five (ish?) years ago.
Azreal13 wrote: I really don't see that bases are in any way all that expensive to produce, even in plastic, I mean, sure, they will require a new mould, but it isn't like it's a massively complex affair like a kit, it's just a bunch of geometric shapes.
No, I stand by my original point, anyone making bases for a living will, at worst, be only mildly inconvenienced by this until they can get up to speed on making 32mm circles, or alternatively continue making bases for all the thousands of models that don't require a 32mm base.
There is simply no way this is the first shot in GW's new plan to eviscerate the third party base industry, it is just too much of a stretch.
Resin aside as we both agree that resin makers will adapt quickly.
A plastic mold is doable in-house for GW, but I don't think you realize how expensive it is to have a third party make a mold for plastic of the precision necessary. It's not going to come from a small operation like Proxie. Eventually some company will do it, but GW is going to have the corner on plastic 32mm's for a while. Even when someone else does get around to doing a mold for plastic it will be GW and that company. It's going to be a long while before there are as many producers of 32mm bases as their are of plastic slottas today.
Right now there's a glut of plastic slottas available because they are produced on old tooling mostly coming from earlier big game companies like Warzone and such from the 90's. No such 2nd hand tooling exists for 32mm bases.
GW doesn't give a care about resin base makers, but they can get at least a year or so of being the sole maker of 32mm plastics and many more years of being one of a few. It's a great strategy for them and guarantees some additional income for a while.
Until someone figures out that just cutting 32mm circles of plasticard is cheaper than buying new bases...
I'm not sure the game is really designed to take a general base size increase. Tabletops are crowded enough as they are without expanding the space that normal units take up. It seems clumsy and unnecessary.
This can't really be about GW trying to mess about third parties by introducing a new base size can it? It sounds silly but they've become so petty minded in recent years it seems to prevent any secondary market. If they did switch over to 32mm stock as standard it would certainly wrong foot companies like Microarts who would now have a big hole in all their ranges and a pile of 25mm bases that are in less demand.
I'm probably being overly suspicious. But GW seem to like changing to be different just not to fit in with the war gaming hobby. Because somehow going against the grain helps them. All it means is there are now a pile of differently sized bases to play their games which is just awkward and ugly.
This can't really be about GW trying to mess about third parties by introducing a new base size can it? It sounds silly but they've become so petty minded in recent years it seems to prevent any secondary market. If they did switch over to 32mm stock as standard it would certainly wrong foot companies like Microarts who would now have a big hole in all their ranges and a pile of 25mm bases that are in less demand.
I don't really think this is true.
If I have, say, 100 Space Marines on 25mm bases, and that is the bases they stay on, Microarts (or whoever) wouldn't sell a single 25mm base to me.
If I decide to rebase them, Microarts could cash in, if they bring some nifty 32mm bases. If not, they still don't lose a single sale compared to the status quo above.
If I buy new Space Marine and decide to base them with Microarts, they'll probably be charging me more for 32mm than they would have for 25mm bases.
And I doubt they pre-cast thousands of resin-cast bases to stockpile them in a pricey warehouse. Kinda defeats the point of resin-cast bases.
I don't see how this can be anything but a huge boon for Microarts and other base-makers. They must be ecstatic.
If I have, say, 100 Space Marines on 25mm bases, and that is the bases they stay on, Microarts (or whoever) wouldn't sell a single 25mm base to me.
If I decide to rebase them, Microarts could cash in, if they bring some nifty 32mm bases. If not, they still don't lose a single sale compared to the status quo above.
If, say, GW brought out a Blood Angels tactical squad on 25mm bases, and you bought one, Microarts could sell you some 25mm scenic bases to go with it. GW change to 32mm - you buy the kit - you don't buy 25mm bases from Microarts (or you might do if, like me, you're ignoring this completely arbitrary change, but still you're more likely to if the kit still uses 25mm). Thus, they've got stock of 25mm bases that are less valuable - unless you think generally the majority buy scenic bases to re-base finished models (hint: they obviously don't, they buy them when they buy new kits).
Note, I'm not saying I think this is why GW did it - honestly, I don't care why they did it - just trying to help with the logic.
If, say, GW brought out a Blood Angels tactical squad on 25mm bases, and you bought one, Microarts could sell you some 25mm scenic bases to go with it. GW change to 32mm - you buy the kit - you don't buy 25mm bases from Microarts (or you might do if, like me, you're ignoring this completely arbitrary change, but still you're more likely to if the kit still uses 25mm). Thus, they've got stock of 25mm bases that are less valuable - unless you think generally the majority buy scenic bases to re-base finished models (hint: they obviously don't, they buy them when they buy new kits).
Note, I'm not saying I think this is why GW did it - honestly, I don't care why they did it - just trying to help with the logic.
Perhaps. But that is at worst the business of a week of GW releases they lose. Before GW brings out the next Marine-box, Microarts, etc.. have surely stocked up (and will charge more for 32mm than 25mm).
It's unlikely to cripple the whole business of these companies and more than likely to benefit them in the long term (if GW-miniatures are a sizable part of their business to start with). Thus the notion that GW intentionally changed bases to hurt these small outlets seems ludicrous.
And yes... ignore it is fine. I have plenty of GW miniatures on "wrong" bases, usually larger (and just often higher, with scenery underfoot) than supplied, because cool and/or more stable. Never had an issue with it.
Is GW never allowed to ever change anything about their bases/miniatures, because it might cost some obscure 3rd party manufacturer three or four sales? Was there a paranoid uproar like this when they changed the base size for Terminators?
If, say, GW brought out a Blood Angels tactical squad on 25mm bases, and you bought one, Microarts could sell you some 25mm scenic bases to go with it. GW change to 32mm - you buy the kit - you don't buy 25mm bases from Microarts (or you might do if, like me, you're ignoring this completely arbitrary change, but still you're more likely to if the kit still uses 25mm). Thus, they've got stock of 25mm bases that are less valuable - unless you think generally the majority buy scenic bases to re-base finished models (hint: they obviously don't, they buy them when they buy new kits).
Note, I'm not saying I think this is why GW did it - honestly, I don't care why they did it - just trying to help with the logic.
Perhaps. But that is at worst the business of a week of GW releases they lose. Before GW brings out the next Marine-box, Microarts, etc.. have surely stocked up (and will charge more for 32mm than 25mm).
It's unlikely to cripple the whole business of these companies and more than likely to benefit them in the long term (if GW-miniatures are a sizable part of their business to start with). Thus the notion that GW intentionally changed bases to hurt these small outlets seems ludicrous.
And yes... ignore it is fine. I have plenty of GW miniatures on "wrong" bases, usually larger (and just often higher, with scenery underfoot) than supplied, because cool and/or more stable. Never had an issue with it.
Is GW never allowed to ever change anything about their bases/miniatures, because it might cost some obscure 3rd party manufacturer three or four sales? Was there a paranoid uproar like this when they changed the base size for Terminators?
I think it's more recently in light of some of their sillier business moves, and with the whole Chapterhouse case and their very trigger happy IP lawyers, that people are assuming everything they do is to spite other companies.
I agree with you though, I don't think it will affect other base makers at all, even if that was their intention. Maybe for like a couple of weeks, but after that it'll just be more sales for resin base manufacturers.
This can't really be about GW trying to mess about third parties by introducing a new base size can it? It sounds silly but they've become so petty minded in recent years it seems to prevent any secondary market. If they did switch over to 32mm stock as standard it would certainly wrong foot companies like Microarts who would now have a big hole in all their ranges and a pile of 25mm bases that are in less demand.
I don't really think this is true.
If I have, say, 100 Space Marines on 25mm bases, and that is the bases they stay on, Microarts (or whoever) wouldn't sell a single 25mm base to me.
If I decide to rebase them, Microarts could cash in, if they bring some nifty 32mm bases. If not, they still don't lose a single sale compared to the status quo above.
If I buy new Space Marine and decide to base them with Microarts, they'll probably be charging me more for 32mm than they would have for 25mm bases.
And I doubt they pre-cast thousands of resin-cast bases to stockpile them in a pricey warehouse. Kinda defeats the point of resin-cast bases.
I don't see how this can be anything but a huge boon for Microarts and other base-makers. They must be ecstatic.
Micro arts just finished their kickstarter not too long ago though, so what's more fun to do to your opponent than make something brand new of theirs obsolete right after they tool up and begin production.
People arent going to buy those pretty 25mm bases if they know they are playing in tournaments that require 32mm bases. (Again not every tournament requires this, but look at how many ocd players are out their that will only want one sized base).
Micro arts just finished their kickstarter not too long ago though, so what's more fun to do to your opponent than make something brand new of theirs obsolete right after they tool up and begin production.
People arent going to buy those pretty 25mm bases if they know they are playing in tournaments that require 32mm bases. (Again not every tournament requires this, but look at how many ocd players are out their that will only want one sized base).
There were no 25mm bases in Micro Arts Kickstarter.
[edit]
There were, however, 50mm bases in that Kickstarter, which GW has now introduced to their range (e.g. Tyranid Warriors in the Deathstorm box). Again, Micro Arts lucks out big time.
Also, GW probably manufactured, painted, photographed for the White Dwarf and shipped to their warehouses all the current Blood Angels releases, long before the Micro Arts Kickstarter launched.
And if there really is a TO out there getting all worked up about not allowing 25mm bases on Space Marines after this weeks release, he'd certainly deserve a rightful smacking for being such an idiot. Seriously.
Now, to be honest, I'd prefer 32mm bases over the 25mm. Bigger minis are less likely to fall, you have more space for some nice basing and the broad-legged minis can actually plant their feet on top of the base.
Still, is it definite that all-bulky-jump-infantry is shifting to 32?
Wonderwolf wrote: Is GW never allowed to ever change anything about their bases/miniatures, because it might cost some obscure 3rd party manufacturer three or four sales? Was there a paranoid uproar like this when they changed the base size for Terminators?
"Paranoid uproar" is a bit extreme. No one is going to go bust adapting their product lines to catch up with GW. I don't put much weight in the idea GW did it to mess around third party retailers, but I do think they look for ways to not be compatible to the rest of the hobby because of their phobia of other miniature lines and companies, like moving to a base size that no one else has ever used.
I think it just makes the game a bit more messy. Is it really necessary to have a wargame with figures on 25mm, 32mm, 40mm, 50mm and 60mm bases, large oval bases, flying bases, bike bases? Like their rules, it's a jumbled mess that could do with being simplified not having more thrown in.
I think it just makes the game a bit more messy. Is it really necessary to have a wargame with figures on 25mm, 32mm, 40mm, 50mm and 60mm bases, large oval bases, flying bases, bike bases? Like their rules, it's a jumbled mess that could do with being simplified not having more thrown in.
Maybe. But ... ya know .. if they'd throw out .. say .. 25mm bases and truly went over to (IMO visually better) 32mm without looking back, all the griping and whining we've seen in this thread probably would've been deserved.
On the other hand, if they would forever hold off with things like 32mm bases, they'd effectively resign themselves to never ever changing things, innovating or ever trying out anything new, because every "addition" to the game/hobby would by your definition be unwelcome, unless it completely replaces something old as to not "add more" to the whole, which would also be unwelcome.
We'll see how a "drastic change" that is set to actually clear out some old baggage and make things simpler again will be received by the community in WFB after the End Times. My guess, it'll not go down to well with people. Hell, GW still gets flack for dropping Squats or simplifying Chaos Space Marines from the convoluted mess of 3.5. to the more streamlined later CSM books. Also, the slightly simplified 7th Edition Codexes haven't really been getting good press either.
Orock wrote: What happens when you have a 5 man squad, 3 25 mm bases and 2 32 mm bases? You can use the 32mm bases inbetween each 25mm to protect you from templates a bit better, and sacrifice them first so when you get to meelee the 25 mm bases fit in better. Our stores that guy blood angels player is already planning on doing just that with his "new" death company and "old" death company models.
See it's stuff like that, is why tournments will need to make these kind of ruleings. The RAW rules says that this BA players is totally with-in the rules for what he has done. Because RAW rules allowed him to modle for advantage and mix the base sizes.
40k is the only game were that's even a thing you can do. Every other game on the market have stated base sizes a unit MUST be mounted on. Alot of rule sets even list this base size in the unit entry.
Bollocks.
Corvus Belli published an entire listing of models to be adjusted in base sizes, yet did not require that you use the actual base they posted for ITS...
And to prevent any kind of "drama" there, they came up with the ridiculous silhouette system.
Wonderwolf wrote: Is GW never allowed to ever change anything about their bases/miniatures, because it might cost some obscure 3rd party manufacturer three or four sales? Was there a paranoid uproar like this when they changed the base size for Terminators?
"Paranoid uproar" is a bit extreme. No one is going to go bust adapting their product lines to catch up with GW. I don't put much weight in the idea GW did it to mess around third party retailers, but I do think they look for ways to not be compatible to the rest of the hobby because of their phobia of other miniature lines and companies, like moving to a base size that no one else has ever used.
I think it just makes the game a bit more messy. Is it really necessary to have a wargame with figures on 25mm, 32mm, 40mm, 50mm and 60mm bases, large oval bases, flying bases, bike bases? Like their rules, it's a jumbled mess that could do with being simplified not having more thrown in.
As was mentioned by someone else, the 32mm base that they're releasing is the same size as a small flying base.
So it's not like that specific size is anything really new--beyond now being in a flatter format.
Was pondering this change of base size then something hit me.
If a 10 man tac squad is in a rhino that suffers an explodes damage result, there is no way to place 10 models with 32mm bases within the footprint of the rhino. Meaning a good chunk of the squad will be removed from play.
Another blatant example of the in depth play testing GW employs
thekoz wrote: Was pondering this change of base size then something hit me.
If a 10 man tac squad is in a rhino that suffers an explodes damage result, there is no way to place 10 models with 32mm bases within the footprint of the rhino. Meaning a good chunk of the squad will be removed from play.
Another blatant example of the in depth play testing GW employs
It's generally going to be a gak thing to have a tactical squad on those 32mm bases. Dismounting from vehicles will be a ballache, fitting them in to any kind of fortification or terrain is going to be a ballache.
I'm really liking the 32mm idea. I can do more on the base, Marines will feel larger to me and there'll be a lot more stability and less melee snagging.
I'm even going to sell up all my Marines now, while 32mm isn't standard and start up a 32mm BA army with that new tac squad.
BoomWolf wrote: I don't get where this notion of "all infantry are going to be 32mm" is coming from, considering deathstorm itself comes with 25mm bases.
Seems to me like its just a jump unit thing. (like the DC are)
It's a rumour from Lords of Wargaming ( - Total rumors: (12 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (0 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE) ) who seem to be the best source of accurate long term rumours at the moment
(and its all 25mms will be replace eventually, not tomorrow, so it may well only happen as new kits are released or the do a new production run of the old ones so think years not days for it to happen)
even with 100% accuracy, 12 rumors is hardly a big enough base to work with.
And given the FACT that the only kit so far to include 32mm also includes 25mm (deathstorm) it would make ZERO sense for all models to be 32mm, even if you ignore the stupidity of gradual changes (because having 2 different marine kits of different sized bases really is dumb.)
I think we are all getting paranoid on this thing...
I can see a clearly plan from GW here...
Like in fantasy there is infantry on 20mm and 25mm squadre bases in 40k there will be smaller infantry on 20mm bases and infantry on bigger 25mm bases (SM, orks and so on)...
In addiction the 32mm bases are incidentally as big as the small clear flying bases and 60mm bases like the big clear flying bases... this could lead to have jet bikes on 32mm round bases with just the clear stand and LS and similar on the 60mm round bases with just the clear stand like in fantasy flying things are on the appropiate plastica base with a clear stand on it or like the crisis squits can be mounted with a clear stand on the 40mm round base...
in addiction i can see how the small oval base is about 75mm long and 32mm widfe... this makes it about the same size of nowadays bike bases... i guess that bikes could receive a rebasing on this oval bases too and the attack bikes and similar could receive a intermediate oval base size for them...
My idea is that GW is trying to make a more organica basing for their games... they don't give a feth about resin bases makers... And resin bases makers in few months will put on the market all the new base sizes (i can see microart already designing them)...
I will keep my marines on 25mm bases BTW... i am not gonna throw away about a hundred of microarts and scibor resin 25mm bases...
And given the FACT that the only kit so far to include 32mm also includes 25mm (deathstorm) it would make ZERO sense for all models to be 32mm, even if you ignore the stupidity of gradual changes (because having 2 different marine kits of different sized bases really is dumb.)
Have you actually read this thread? Deathstorm is not the only kit, new BA tacticals are on 32mm as well.
adamsouza wrote: It makes some sense to have bulky models on a larger base.
I'm not buying ALL models changed to 32mm, and I mean that literaly as well as figuratively as well. Who in their right mind would want to rebase an entire collection from 25 to 32mm ?
PhillyT wrote: Nobody can force you to put models on a base they didn't come with. Stick it too them!
I am not about to rebase hundreds of models.
You can only "stick it" to them this way, if they'd ask/demand/suggest/propose/recommend/advocate that you re-base something. So far, GW hasn't done that. The only thing you're rebelling again is internet scare-mongering,
Just heard about this myself. Wow... just wow. I remember when Terminators went from 25mm to 40MM, and for a while I used my old metal Deathwing on 25mm bases until I got too many negative comments about it. So we'll be seeing some Space Marines on 32mm bases, and some on 25mm bases for a while yet.
Of course, GW will be supplying the hobby enthusiast with a pack of 32mm bases... like maybe 10 of them for $24.99? At least until the 3rd party guys start making 32mm bases.
It just seems silly and makes no sense. Models falling over? This has been an issue for a long time, and is easily solved by just adding some weight to the base (fishing weights, a penny, metal washer, whatever). Make the base bigger? Just makes the table even more cluttered, and less models will be able to fit in a specific area (say, wreckage, or on the parapet of a Redoubt, etc). I'm just befuddled by this change.
Of course, GW will be supplying the hobby enthusiast with a pack of 32mm bases... like maybe 10 of them for $24.99? At least until the 3rd party guys start making 32mm bases.
Of course, GW will be supplying the hobby enthusiast with a pack of 32mm bases... like maybe 10 of them for $24.99? At least until the 3rd party guys start making 32mm bases.
$4.95 actually.
But they are direct order only, but I am sure some LFGS will carry them.
And given the FACT that the only kit so far to include 32mm also includes 25mm (deathstorm) it would make ZERO sense for all models to be 32mm, even if you ignore the stupidity of gradual changes (because having 2 different marine kits of different sized bases really is dumb.)
Have you actually read this thread? Deathstorm is not the only kit, new BA tacticals are on 32mm as well.
Obviusly I have not went through the entire thread that consists mostly of "the skies are falling" posts, rather than useful information.
As for the BA tactical-do we have any conformation for this?
EDIT: went back through and saw the pics...it WOULD seem so, unless that is some crafty positioning from whoever built the models.
Still, "all marines" and "all 25mm models" is very much not the same thing.
And I STILL find it odd. once the kit actually comes up we'll know for sure, but I suspect the bases were used for photoshooting reasons only.
Bollocks.
Corvus Belli published an entire listing of models to be adjusted in base sizes, yet did not require that you use the actual base they posted for ITS...
And to prevent any kind of "drama" there, they came up with the ridiculous silhouette system.
My mistake then. In my local group we understood it that they had to be on the new base size.
Until someone figures out that just cutting 32mm circles of plasticard is cheaper than buying new bases...
At any tournament I've been to were they expect units to be on the proper current base, this was the solution they suggested to people who took issue with rebaseing their models actually.
Still, "all marines" and "all 25mm models" is very much not the same thing.
I agree. Anyone proclaiming "all 25mm models" is willfully ignoring the Deathstorm Genestealers are on 25mm bases.
Have you seen the average 40k table? All marines might as well mean all 25mm modles for some people! lol
But I agree with the sentiment. I am weary that everything will make a switch to 32mm modles. Why would the fex and warriors get new bases, yet keep the genestealers on 25mm bases if this was a sweeping change?
And despite the fact people keep misunderstanding what I'm saying. When I talk about using 32mm bases in a tournament, I'm only talking about once that unit is actually packaged with a new sized base. Not that a TO wakes up tomorrow and starts demanding all the 25mm bases are gone from someone's army that day. lol
Tournament requirements are up to the individual TO's. There is no accouting for far some of them might go.
Still, as I've pointed out earlier in this thread, the change to 32mm from 25mm is no where near as significant as the change from 25mm to 40mm for terminators was. The situations where some advantage is gained from playing 25mm over 32mm are mostly hypothetical at best and at most involve 1 more marine being able to shoot or assault in groups of 6+ where everything is line up just right. No sane person should worry about it.
Demanding rebasing is not reasonable or practical, and I would abstain from any tournament requiring it for this 25 to 32mm transition.
adamsouza wrote: Tournament requirements are up to the individual TO's. There is no accouting for far some of them might go.
Still, as I've pointed out earlier in this thread, the change to 32mm from 25mm is no where near as significant as the change from 25mm to 40mm for terminators was. The situations where some advantage is gained from playing 25mm over 32mm are mostly hypothetical at best and at most involve 1 more marine being able to shoot or assault in groups of 6+ where everything is line up just right. No sane person should worry about it.
Demanding rebasing is not reasonable or practical, and I would abstain from any tournament requiring it for this 25 to 32mm transition.
I said myself "Check with your TO" a few pages back, so I don't disagree with that.
But don't put down TO's who make that call. In my area this became a standard practice to ask for, due to issues we started having with people using old metal terminators to cheese the rules. Like we had players going out of their way to get them just because of some stupid rules shenanigans they figured out they could do with them. Most people just became so annoyed by these players we ASKED for our TO to do this.
Every area has it's own list of rulings and practices that it developed for it's own area, to make 40k work as a tournament game.
If your from a area/meta were this didn't become a issue, then good for you. But understand why following what units will be getting new bases, and what size thows bases are matters to me and other people who may have a similar situation going on.
I am personally just going to order MDF bases from litko once the dust starts to settle about what goes on what sized base. I will personaly be rebaseing my units as these changes are made. I feel "oh. The sucks. But oh well, not the 1st time I've had to rebase models" on the situation.
Tamwulf wrote: Of course, GW will be supplying the hobby enthusiast with a pack of 32mm bases... like maybe 10 of them for $24.99? At least until the 3rd party guys start making 32mm bases.
Just buy the round-lipped 35mm bases that are already out there.
I haven't seen this sort of epic potential since epic:40,000 was released and became an instant resounding success. Changing bases helped the game right? Its not like it quickly died after that, right?
edit: also, there's no way that the base casters could change their base sizes from 25mm to 32mm to keep up, is there? 32mm is impossible to cast 3rd party bases for, right?
Tamwulf wrote: Of course, GW will be supplying the hobby enthusiast with a pack of 32mm bases... like maybe 10 of them for $24.99? At least until the 3rd party guys start making 32mm bases.
Just buy the round-lipped 35mm bases that are already out there.
32mm bases cut from plywood are like 100 for $25 from litko. Get 3mm thick if you plan on replaceing the whole base, or .8mm thick and just glue the old base ontop of the new base. At $0.25 per base, it's hard to beat that.
There are many cheap solutions for this, but all in all this is a gigantic dick move by GW. Some decisions they make outright smack of petulant "ef you for not letting me have my way" attitude. Reminds me of a certain president of a certain country I know.
I am personally just going to order MDF bases from litko once the dust starts to settle about what goes on what sized base. I will personaly be rebaseing my units as these changes are made. I feel "oh. The sucks. But oh well, not the 1st time I've had to rebase models" on the situation.
There's no way I can rebase my plastic mini's glued to plastic bases with poly cement. The ones on resin bases I can at least snap off, but the plastic ones are going to involve complex surgery and look a total mess.
I am personally just going to order MDF bases from litko once the dust starts to settle about what goes on what sized base. I will personaly be rebaseing my units as these changes are made. I feel "oh. The sucks. But oh well, not the 1st time I've had to rebase models" on the situation.
There's no way I can rebase my plastic mini's glued to plastic bases with poly cement. The ones on resin bases I can at least snap off, but the plastic ones are going to involve complex surgery and look a total mess.
I've rebased thows mini's before. You got two options.
Using a hobby knight cut under the sand removing and popping it off the base. Then useing a 2nd hobby knife that is new/sharp slowly keep making small cuts until you remove the miniature. I am doing this right now for some miniatures I fully painted but now want on magnetic bases for WHFB. Have a cutting mat and go very slowly, so you don't scrap paint off the mini. It's not easy but it can be done. I can post before and after pics of me doing this if it helps.
The 2nd option I mentioned already. Go to litko and get 100 32mm bases cut out of .8mm thick plywood Glue the original base on top of the new thin base and then add new sand and flock to blend the two bases together. I am going to do this option for my marines when this change takes place.
@Lockark, herzloz -- it's definitely not that much work for plastics. Snip around the feet with diagonal cutters, and clean the actual feet the same way you'd deal with a sprue (cut close, file/cut what's left).
But, unless you like the 32mm look, why would you?
Well, at least they're $0.50/model for a base...hmm, maybe my expectations of GW have gotten so screwy that I feel like that's a reasonable price.
Anyway, I certainly saw this going in a really bad direction (like 10 for $10 or worse, as others have mentioned), so I guess that's good news. Why it's Direct-only...
Either way, I'm a DE player so I think the skinny little elves will hopefully be safe on their bases. As for my Ork Nobz....well...
Accolade wrote: Well, at least they're $0.50/model for a base...hmm, maybe my expectations of GW have gotten so screwy that I feel like that's a reasonable price.
Anyway, I certainly saw this going in a really bad direction (like 10 for $10 or worse, as others have mentioned), so I guess that's good news. Why it's Direct-only...
Either way, I'm a DE player so I think the skinny little elves will hopefully be safe on their bases. As for my Ork Nobz....well...
I just bought a load 0f 30mm from Miniatures Market.
The old Confrontation 30mm bases are 8x for $1
I don't think most will notice the 2mm difference.
I am not rebasing anything. Period. Any tournament that requires the new basing size is not getting my business. I loath large bases - they cause all kinds of problems in a terrain rich table. Now putting terminators on 32mm would actually be about right. Still wouldn't rebase though. I was weak last time around and put a bunch of my termies on 40mm washers, but I'm not doing it this time.
I bumped all my crisis suits from 40mm to 50mm bases when I got a hold of some of the new Cent bases. They fit much better on them.
I will likely grab a few packs of these bases and rebase my nobz and lootas onto them. Stormboyz maybe too. My biggest concern will be how well the new bases will fit into my existing foam trays. But the larger bases will really help keep stormboyz from tipping over.
I am surprisingly okay with this. I have 4.5k points of CSM who now are on too small bases, but this combined with upscaled CSMs will make new units I add look significantly better.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I bumped all my crisis suits from 40mm to 50mm bases when I got a hold of some of the new Cent bases. They fit much better on them.
I will likely grab a few packs of these bases and rebase my nobz and lootas onto them. Stormboyz maybe too. My biggest concern will be how well the new bases will fit into my existing foam trays. But the larger bases will really help keep stormboyz from tipping over.
My marines will likely stay on 25mm though.
Crisis suits?
They fit just fine in the 40mm bases.
Honestly, its the one thing I wish them not to shift to a bigger base, the 40mm base fits perfectly into my "suits and tetras" box
I as a CSM player honestly would rather have some slightly bigger bases as an option. I definitely don't want to redo my rank and file, but since I am such a procrastinator when it comes to basing, it won't be TOO big of a deal to rebase things that I've made that really hang over the edges of their bases. I have a load of possessed that I kitbashed that are far too big for their tiny little bases, and I'd like my raptors and icon bearers to be on a larger, more stable base as well. If assault was more common, the slight change in base size might matter, but as it stands, I can't really see it affecting the rules. That said, I've never seen anyone argue that a model was on a base that was too big. Just make sure your opponent is measuring those charges correctly.
Davylove21 wrote: I just emailed Forge World to ask them if they're going to switch to 32mm and when. Hope they reply!
I was going to wait until GW actually released the new bases before making that same email. But I would love to hear what they say if your willing to share!
PhillyT wrote: Nobody can force you to put models on a base they didn't come with. Stick it too them!
I am not about to rebase hundreds of models.
You can only "stick it" to them this way, if they'd ask/demand/suggest/propose/recommend/advocate that you re-base something. So far, GW hasn't done that. The only thing you're rebelling again is internet scare-mongering,
I wasn't implying they were in this case. I am referring to rebasing in all cases from all directions.
I have 10 flash gitz on 25mm bases. These were made back in 2008. When the new models came out, an argument could be made that I needed to rebase them, but I didn't and won't. Other models have actually seen a change in official base (broadsides I think?) but you would still really have to be a jerk to force anyone to rip the models off and rebase them.
The only time I ever rebased was when I pulled my Ungor off their 25mm square bases and put them onto 20mm square bases. I really had no choice since I ended up getting the new ungor for the command bitz and nice new models. I ended up with 60 painted ungor and 40 unpainted ungor with different base sizes. It was simpler to just rip off the old ungor. I used the bases for some unbased gors I had so it wasn't a total loss.
The Response from Games Workshop
Thanks for the email.
The new 32mm bases were a design choice made by the sculptors, to make the Death Company look more imposing. There is no specific base that you have to use for the Death Company, so should you wish to mount them on the smaller 20mm bases this is fine, but if you would rather have the slightly larger 32mm base, this is also fine.
I hope that this helps, but if you need anything further, please let me know.
Kind regards
The Response from Games Workshop
Thanks for the email.
The new 32mm bases were a design choice made by the sculptors, to make the Death Company look more imposing. There is no specific base that you have to use for the Death Company, so should you wish to mount them on the smaller 20mm bases this is fine, but if you would rather have the slightly larger 32mm base, this is also fine.
I hope that this helps, but if you need anything further, please let me know.
Kind regards
Hillarious, because I don't think there's currently a single space marine unit (possibly in all of 40k?) that comes on 20mm bases.
The Response from Games Workshop
Thanks for the email.
The new 32mm bases were a design choice made by the sculptors, to make the Death Company look more imposing. There is no specific base that you have to use for the Death Company, so should you wish to mount them on the smaller 20mm bases this is fine, but if you would rather have the slightly larger 32mm base, this is also fine.
I hope that this helps, but if you need anything further, please let me know.
Kind regards
Wow, I just can't buy that. I cannot see GW management agreeing to a brand-new base size just because of a "design choice" by someone in the studio. Plastic mold costs have certainly come down over the years, but that is a nontrivial cost for just a "design choice".
That might actually be the real reason, but it would certainly be out of character for what we seen from GW over the past few years. I would find it far more believable if there was some business reason for the change. Blocking out third party manufacturers, trying to assert IP rights, trying to force players to upgrade their bases, or something like that…. Just don't see it as a "design choice" by the studio.
The design choice comment obviously doesn't apply specifically to the DC, those aren't new kits. Broadly though, as a decision they've decided to apply to marines from now on? Sure.
The 'evil scheme' theories start to lose a little steam when GW are specifically saying that you don't even have I use the new base size with the NEW kits, let alone the old stuff.
Of course you don't have to use the new base sizes.. I seriously don't understand why people are all worried. It is amusing that it's just a "design choice"..
So.. they designed to make two units completely different than the rest? It's not evil empire.. its simply incompetence yet again.
I think the 32mm bases are a welcome choice to represent a normal sized 10 foot tall space marine, so long as 6 foot tall Catachans & Cadians stay on 25mm bases.
Kilkrazy wrote: Space Marines aren't 10 foot. Eight feet is about the average.
Still, I agree they will look better on the 32mm bases.
Yep, I agree too. But it's kind of a really late game play to change. We aren't talking about some young upstart and change made in the second edition. Seven editions later base size change?
The Response from Games Workshop
Thanks for the email.
The new 32mm bases were a design choice made by the sculptors, to make the Death Company look more imposing. There is no specific base that you have to use for the Death Company, so should you wish to mount them on the smaller 20mm bases this is fine, but if you would rather have the slightly larger 32mm base, this is also fine.
I hope that this helps, but if you need anything further, please let me know.
Kind regards
Hillarious, because I don't think there's currently a single space marine unit (possibly in all of 40k?) that comes on 20mm bases.
Yeah that was my first thought. My second was that the kit is only just up for pre-order, and the GW have been notoriously tight lipped about everything. So I suspect it's either a fake (though I don't know why) or a new staff member who may not be that accurate.
I might be a little out of touch and I have seen the other thread, but are pictures of this new tac squad (the front of White Dwarf) displaying tactical marines on HQ bases ?
I am not up to speed on the sizing in MM which might sound dumb as I am an avid hobbyist but I would call those the War-boss (ork player) bases ? or Flash Gitz...
If that is true, why would GW do that ? does this not sort of interfere with close combat mechanics.....
It's funny because I can't see how they didn't see this sort of change upsetting people. Almost everyone that plays this game is OCD on some level. Whether it be an obsession with following game rules or aesthetic consistency in base size. This is a change that very few people will be able to enjoy.
Obviously it's going to upset people, but what are they supposed to do? If the design studio wants to represent power armor marines on 32mm bases from here on out, how would they go about it without upsetting people? In principle, I like this change. It's cool that marines can be represented on a slightly bigger base. This change doesn't exist in a vacuum though. Whats the design studio to do? Not make the change at all?
Were they not supposed to move Terminators onto 40mm bases?
With all the different base sizes in the new box set (are those 'nid warriors on new size bases as well?) I'm assuming it's a move to make it harder for 3rd party resin base manufacturers to create and maintain enough stock to base everything GW puts out. Whether it's a ploy by GW to release their own line of resin bases or just to sell more basing kits, only time will tell.
The round-edged bases used by many other companies are 30mm, 40mm, and 50mm (plus 120mm for the huge stuff). I don't think it's too large of a leap to suppose that's why GW didn't choose 30mm.
The Power Cosmic wrote: The round-edged bases used by many other companies are 30mm, 40mm, and 50mm (plus 120mm for the huge stuff). I don't think it's too large of a leap to suppose that's why GW didn't choose 30mm.
Actually, I think they picked 32mm because it's almost in the middle between 25mm and 40mm.
The Power Cosmic wrote: The round-edged bases used by many other companies are 30mm, 40mm, and 50mm (plus 120mm for the huge stuff). I don't think it's too large of a leap to suppose that's why GW didn't choose 30mm.
I say this again: they're 32mm because that is the size of GW's small flying base; this is not a new base size.
The Power Cosmic wrote: The round-edged bases used by many other companies are 30mm, 40mm, and 50mm (plus 120mm for the huge stuff). I don't think it's too large of a leap to suppose that's why GW didn't choose 30mm.
Actually, I think they picked 32mm because it's almost in the middle between 25mm and 40mm.
This. They can't do a 32.5 mm base (well, they could), so they round down to 32 for symmetry.
The Response from Games Workshop
Thanks for the email.
The new 32mm bases were a design choice made by the sculptors, to make the Death Company look more imposing. There is no specific base that you have to use for the Death Company, so should you wish to mount them on the smaller 20mm bases this is fine, but if you would rather have the slightly larger 32mm base, this is also fine.
I hope that this helps, but if you need anything further, please let me know.
Kind regards
Hillarious, because I don't think there's currently a single space marine unit (possibly in all of 40k?) that comes on 20mm bases.
I`d say trolling. It wasnt for the death company as shown on the white dwarf and the new tactical squad
So it's handy I just sold all my Marine themed forces over the last couple of months... I'll take that as a bonus.
On saying that, I will be rebasing my Stormboyz to the 32mm, regardless of it Orks are effected by it.. anything that saves them from falling over is a boon in my book.
)
s and giggles...that being said, that would be the craziest, most trolltastic thing ever done by 
