Since a mod short sightedly closed the last blood angels thread before the whole release was finalised, going to need a new thread to keep up for the next few weeks.
Anyway:
First pic of a formation from the new book:
Whilst it is still slightly strange, it puts into context the new blood angels terminator kit somewhat.
I wonder what is the maximum number of points one could field with that amount of slots. You could do the Baal Strike Force and the Archangels Strike Force and have all sorts of fun.
Forget the cranky ones who don't believe that things are available even when they are. If it's not a book it doesn't exist and those danged digital books are just a fad!
I have to admit. This is tempting, but I wanted to field an elite army of Terminators and that still doesn't seem to be a good idea (also I wasn't hugely fond of Blood Angels, I prefer to make my own chapter).
Maybe some day they will have balance so an all Terminator army isn't going to get stomped.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Since a mod short sightedly closed the last blood angels thread before the whole release was finalised, going to need a new thread to keep up for the next few weeks.
Anyway:
First pic of a formation from the new book:
Whilst it is still slightly strange, it puts into context the new blood angels terminator kit somewhat.
So does the first company just never deploy with Sang Priests... you'd think they'd have the most with them being vets and all. No Command Squads for some reason too. Wait, why can't Dante be included in the formation? He's the Chapter Master, he can go to battle with whatever company he wants. Ditto with Meph who is even in the picture for the detachment.
SilverDevilfish wrote: So does the first company just never deploy with Sang Priests... you'd think they'd have the most with them being vets and all. No Command Squads for some reason too. Wait, why can't Dante be included in the formation? He's the Chapter Master, he can go to battle with whatever company he wants. Ditto with Meph who is even in the picture for the detachment.
Oh well, I dub thee "Sternpod" detachment.
And things like this are just part of the "GW... almost" mentality. Why isn't Dante included as an option? Why no command squad? There's no reason for it other than they didn't think about it. Sure, most people would be fine with you taking Dante, but technically speaking you can't and the moment someone lets you do it, you're house ruling the game.
With Mephiston, does he count as a Librarian? If so he can squeeze in under that loophole (it can take Librarians, Meph is a Librarian therefore it can take Meph), but last I checked Chapter Master and Captain were two different entries, so if you can take a captain it doesn't necessarily mean you can take a chapter master.
The Storm of Angels benefit is great. Too bad that most of the choices you get from the Elite slot are the crap ones that no one's going to take in a standard BACAD (the Furioso really being the exception to that). And to add insult to injury, none of the HQs are ones that you really want to take either and you can only field them in TDA.
It's sort of like buying the knife block that comes with the one nice chef's knife and the rest of the batch are weird boning knives that you'll never actually use properly.
Can anybody make out numbers on the units in the Blood Angel and Flesh Tearer detachments? For folks that wanted to run all-Jump Pack armies, those may go a way towards satisfying that desire.
What the... White dwarf is actually useful again? The pictures above actually looks good. Sure, it's not like the old glory days but this, at least looks really good and useful!
Shamanlord1961 wrote: The rules on the Angel's Wrath formation might make them almost too good. Come in as a single unit, no scatter and hit enemies on landing? Yes please!
Where are you getting that? The text in those pictures was completely illegible.
Shamanlord1961 wrote: The rules on the Angel's Wrath formation might make them almost too good. Come in as a single unit, no scatter and hit enemies on landing? Yes please!
Where are you getting that? The text in those pictures was completely illegible.
Not totally illegible...I read it just fine.
Guided Drop: This formation must be placed in Deep Strike Reserve. Make a single reserve roll for the entire formation. If successful, all units arrive from the formation. The formation’s unit of vanguard veterans must be placed first, and units of assault marines do not scatter so long as the first model is placed within 6” of the Vanguard Veterans Unit.
Meteoric Impact: Immediately after deploying, any enemy unit within 6” of any unit from this formation suffer a str 4 AP- hit for each of their models which is within 6” of a model from the formation. In addition, these enemy units must move as if they are in difficult terrain until the end of their next turn.
Shamanlord1961 wrote: The rules on the Angel's Wrath formation might make them almost too good. Come in as a single unit, no scatter and hit enemies on landing? Yes please!
Where are you getting that? The text in those pictures was completely illegible.
Not totally illegible...I read it just fine.
Guided Drop: This formation must be placed in Deep Strike Reserve. Make a single reserve roll for the entire formation. If successful, all units arrive from the formation. The formation’s unit of vanguard veterans must be placed first, and units of assault marines do not scatter so long as the first model is placed within 6” of the Vanguard Veterans Unit.
Meteoric Impact: Immediately after deploying, any enemy unit within 6” of any unit from this formation suffer a str 4 AP- hit for each of their models which is within 6” of a model from the formation. In addition, these enemy units must move as if they are in difficult terrain until the end of their next turn.
Wow, regardless of effectiveness that is an awesome rule for a JP formation!
**Nevermind** It wasn't blanked out anymore and I didn't read further.
I can't seem to find it now but wasn't there a flesh tearer formation with like 1 assault squad, 1 vanguard squad, 2 tacitcal squads and a dreadnought or something. I remember seeing it but I can't find the info anywhere. I thought it was supposed to be one of the WD exclusives but they only list 4 and it isn't there...
Shamanlord1961 wrote: The rules on the Angel's Wrath formation might make them almost too good. Come in as a single unit, no scatter and hit enemies on landing? Yes please!
Where are you getting that? The text in those pictures was completely illegible.
Not totally illegible...I read it just fine.
Guided Drop: This formation must be placed in Deep Strike Reserve. Make a single reserve roll for the entire formation. If successful, all units arrive from the formation. The formation’s unit of vanguard veterans must be placed first, and units of assault marines do not scatter so long as the first model is placed within 6” of the Vanguard Veterans Unit.
Meteoric Impact: Immediately after deploying, any enemy unit within 6” of any unit from this formation suffer a str 4 AP- hit for each of their models which is within 6” of a model from the formation. In addition, these enemy units must move as if they are in difficult terrain until the end of their next turn.
Thanks for that. It is indeed a cool formation, though it still does scatter- the vanguard veteran squad does, at least.
Hulksmash wrote: **Nevermind** It wasn't blanked out anymore and I didn't read further.
I can't seem to find it now but wasn't there a flesh tearer formation with like 1 assault squad, 1 vanguard squad, 2 tacitcal squads and a dreadnought or something. I remember seeing it but I can't find the info anywhere. I thought it was supposed to be one of the WD exclusives but they only list 4 and it isn't there...
It's right there on the first page of this thread with all the WD pics.
Shamanlord1961 wrote: The rules on the Angel's Wrath formation might make them almost too good. Come in as a single unit, no scatter and hit enemies on landing? Yes please!
Where are you getting that? The text in those pictures was completely illegible.
Not totally illegible...I read it just fine.
Guided Drop: This formation must be placed in Deep Strike Reserve. Make a single reserve roll for the entire formation. If successful, all units arrive from the formation. The formation’s unit of vanguard veterans must be placed first, and units of assault marines do not scatter so long as the first model is placed within 6” of the Vanguard Veterans Unit.
Meteoric Impact: Immediately after deploying, any enemy unit within 6” of any unit from this formation suffer a str 4 AP- hit for each of their models which is within 6” of a model from the formation. In addition, these enemy units must move as if they are in difficult terrain until the end of their next turn.
Thanks for that. It is indeed a cool formation, though it still does scatter- the vanguard veteran squad does, at least.
Correct, it would appear the Vanguard Vets still scatter. But this is easily mitigated somewhat if you can bring ol' Dante along in some way, or get really lucky in rolling Descent of Angels as your warlord trait.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Since a mod short sightedly closed the last blood angels thread before the whole release was finalised, going to need a new thread to keep up for the next few weeks.
Anyway:
First pic of a formation from the new book:
Whilst it is still slightly strange, it puts into context the new blood angels terminator kit somewhat.
So does the first company just never deploy with Sang Priests... you'd think they'd have the most with them being vets and all. No Command Squads for some reason too. Wait, why can't Dante be included in the formation? He's the Chapter Master, he can go to battle with whatever company he wants. Ditto with Meph who is even in the picture for the detachment.
Oh well, I dub thee "Sternpod" detachment.
I have no doubt in my mind here will be separate formations/detachments for fielding lots of DC/SG
Hulksmash wrote: **Nevermind** It wasn't blanked out anymore and I didn't read further.
I can't seem to find it now but wasn't there a flesh tearer formation with like 1 assault squad, 1 vanguard squad, 2 tacitcal squads and a dreadnought or something. I remember seeing it but I can't find the info anywhere. I thought it was supposed to be one of the WD exclusives but they only list 4 and it isn't there...
It's right there on the first page of this thread with all the WD pics.
Actually it's not. The one I'm referring to didn't have a stormraven and had tactical marines. Which I don't think the one on page 1 has. Maybe I'm wrong though. But I remember seeing a clear picture of the formation at some point.
Hulksmash wrote: Actually it's not. The one I'm referring to didn't have a stormraven and had tactical marines. Which I don't think the one on page 1 has. Maybe I'm wrong though. But I remember seeing a clear picture of the formation at some point.
WD46?
FLESH TEARERS VANGUARD STRIKE FORCE
ORMATION:
3 Tactical Squads
1 Assault Squad
1 Vanguard Veteran Squad
1 Furioso Dreadnought
RESTRICTIONS:
None.
SPECIAL RULES:
Leading by Example: Whilst this Formation’s Vanguard Veteran squad is alive and on the battlefield, all units in this Formation ignore the penalties for disordered charges (including the penalty described in The Red Thirst, below) and have the Stubborn special rule.
The Red Thirst: In a turn in which a model from this Formation charges into combat, the model adds 1 to its Initiative characteristic until the end of the Assault phase. A model that has made a disordered charge that turn receives no benefit from the The Red Thirst.
Well I'll be darned. Have to double check that but might just pick up the digital one. They didn't even advertise it had it on the cover or on the BL webpage like the normally do.
I see a regulation deck of cards in those pictures under the dragon...
I have lost faith in GW if they don't produce a "GW centric" deck of playing cards required for the minigames... Hobbit, WHFB, and 40k themed decks even..
The formation is 2 warriors, 2 immortals 1 monolith.
It gives the monolith an ability similar to ghost ark repair that works on the warriors/immortals of the formation, and if targeting warriors its more potent. (2d warriors or d6 immortals if I manage to read right)
Cant read range though...
Anyone managing to read the Angel's Wrath formation units? seems like some combination of vanguard and assaults who must all be in jump packs, but I can't quite read.
Guided Drop: This formation must be placed in Deep Strike Reserve. Make a single reserve roll for the entire formation. If successful, all units arrive from the formation. The formation’s unit of vanguard veterans must be placed first, and units of assault marines do not scatter so long as the first model is placed within 6” of the Vanguard Veterans Unit.
Meteoric Impact: Immediately after deploying, any enemy unit within 6” of any unit from this formation suffer a str 4 AP- hit for each of their models which is within 6” of a model from the formation. In addition, these enemy units must move as if they are in difficult terrain until the end of their next turn.
Posting this again for Angel's Wrath Formation. Only thing I can't make out is number of units required (assuming 1x Vanguard vets, 2x Assault squads at minimum)
BoomWolf: you may have been asking the same question about unit SIZE that I was (not rules), but just to be sure I posted the above.
Kanluwen wrote: You realize last week they had the rules for Battle of the Five Armies in White Dwarf, right?
With how much they are charging for the Hobbit minis, free rules is the least they can do ( I say free, you still have to buy the WD mag). I see in the preview pics for next week there is a scenario for Smaug. Now I have a reason to pay $500+ for a finecast dragon!...not.
Sorry for the typical Dakka cynicism...I actually love that there will be punch out cards in the next issue.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hulksmash wrote: That's the one. It was in WD46? I didn't see it when I flipped through it at my FLGS. Oh well. Thanks
Yeah, that's in the WD that came out last week, with the BA assault termies on the front....funny enough, I bought it after hearing the news about the cityfight cards...thinking they would be in that issue. Sadly, I jumped the gun a week early. Don't have much use for this issue.
I stand corrected. It is a nice gesture to provide the rules free of charge. Still, It's not enough to entice me to spend the prices they are asking for these recent Hobbit releases. I am a huge fan of the Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings (The books first, and pretty much anything to do with them)...and I think the models look great. But, justifying those prices on a family of five, single income budget is just impossible. Even at $200, that dragon would be expensive for what it is.
So the Archangel list is actually from the Shield of Baal Exterminatus book but the rest is from the White Dwarf?
Pretre, can you list what the details are of the Stormraven/Tactical squad WD formation are? I have to say I'm a bit impressed with GW actually putting value back into WD with this. I'm also happy about the Archangel list given that I've got an all termie BA army I've been using as Deathwing since the 3rd edition Space Hulk set released. They won't be as good as Deathwing or as customizable but I do like the idea of using them as Blood Angels finally.
Holy crap! That VV/AS formation is downright awesome! Best part? It doesn't us up any of your elite or Fast Attack slots. I was just talking to a guy at my FLGS and said it would he cool in BA would have some sort of attack that went off when they cake in from Deep Strike with a Jump Pack. Could not be happier. Now I need some VV and more Assault Squads! Who needs charge out of Deep Strike when you smash the ground upon landing?
Can anyone read the Angel's Fury Spearhead Force Formation? That picture is waaaaayyyyy too blurry for me. About all I managed to make out was that some part of it gets Objective Secured... I think...
casvalremdeikun wrote: Holy crap! That VV/AS formation is downright awesome! Best part? It doesn't us up any of your elite or Fast Attack slots. I was just talking to a guy at my FLGS and said it would he cool in BA would have some sort of attack that went off when they cake in from Deep Strike with a Jump Pack. Could not be happier. Now I need some VV and more Assault Squads! Who needs charge out of Deep Strike when you smash the ground upon landing?
BrokenRecord wrote: Can anyone read the Angel's Fury Spearhead Force Formation? That picture is waaaaayyyyy too blurry for me. About all I managed to make out was that some part of it gets Objective Secured... I think...
I am specialised in reading blur. Here's what I could make of it:
Formation:
X Tactical Squads
X Stormraven Gunships
(can't make out the numbers for sure, sorry. But I think it's 3 of each; the picture also supports that)
Restrictions:
Each Tactical Squad must include 10 models. The Sergeant of each Tactical Squad in this Formation may take a teleport homer as a free upgrade. This Formation's Tactical Squads cannot take Dedicated Transports, and must begin the game embarked in the Stormraven Gunships from this Formation.
Special Rules:
Augur Triangulation: If a friendly unit with the Blood Angels Faction arrives from Deep Strike Reserves within 12" of at least one/two model(s) from this Formation equipped with a teleport homer, then it does not scatter and can charge in the same turn it arrives.
Objective Secured: All Troops units from this Formation have the Objective Secured special rule.
Spearhead Strike Force: When making Reserve Rolls, make a single roll for the entire Formation, which you may choose to re-roll. If successful, all units arrive from this Formation. You can make a Reserve Roll for this formation from the start of Turn 1.
BrokenRecord wrote: Can anyone read the Angel's Fury Spearhead Force Formation? That picture is waaaaayyyyy too blurry for me. About all I managed to make out was that some part of it gets Objective Secured... I think...
I am specialised in reading blur. Here's what I could make of it:
Formation:
X Tactical Squads
X Stormraven Gunships
(can't make out the numbers, sorry)
Restrictions:
Each Tactical Squad must include 10 models. The Sergeant of each Tactical Squad in this Formation make take a teleport homer as a free upgrade. This Formation's Tactical Squads cannot take Dedicated Transports, and must begin the game embarked in the Stormraven Gunships from this Formation.
Special Rules:
Augur Triangulation: If a friendly unit with the Blood Angels Faction arrives from Deep Strike Reserves within 12" of at least one model from this Formation equipped with a teleport homer, then it does not scatter and can charge in the same turn it arrives.
Objective Secured: All Troops units from this Formation have the Objective Secured special rule.
Spearhead Strike Force: When making Reserve Rolls, make a single roll for the entire Formation, which you may choose to re-roll. If successful, all units arrive from this Formation. You can make a Reserve Roll for this formation from the start of Turn 1.
Is that incredible or is it just me? Will that enable assault squads to assault out of deep strike, or just terminators?
BrokenRecord wrote: Can anyone read the Angel's Fury Spearhead Force Formation? That picture is waaaaayyyyy too blurry for me. About all I managed to make out was that some part of it gets Objective Secured... I think...
I am specialised in reading blur. Here's what I could make of it:
Formation:
X Tactical Squads
X Stormraven Gunships
(can't make out the numbers for sure, sorry. But I think it's 3 of each; the picture also supports that)
Restrictions:
Each Tactical Squad must include 10 models. The Sergeant of each Tactical Squad in this Formation make take a teleport homer as a free upgrade. This Formation's Tactical Squads cannot take Dedicated Transports, and must begin the game embarked in the Stormraven Gunships from this Formation.
Special Rules:
Augur Triangulation: If a friendly unit with the Blood Angels Faction arrives from Deep Strike Reserves within 12" of at least one model from this Formation equipped with a teleport homer, then it does not scatter and can charge in the same turn it arrives.
Objective Secured: All Troops units from this Formation have the Objective Secured special rule.
Spearhead Strike Force: When making Reserve Rolls, make a single roll for the entire Formation, which you may choose to re-roll. If successful, all units arrive from this Formation. You can make a Reserve Roll for this formation from the start of Turn 1.
If that is correct, I believe I just figured out the core of my army for larger games!
casvalremdeikun wrote: Holy crap! That VV/AS formation is downright awesome! Best part? It doesn't us up any of your elite or Fast Attack slots. I was just talking to a guy at my FLGS and said it would he cool in BA would have some sort of attack that went off when they cake in from Deep Strike with a Jump Pack. Could not be happier. Now I need some VV and more Assault Squads! Who needs charge out of Deep Strike when you smash the ground upon landing?
have a decent VV loadout in mind?
Not as of yet. But they are just the delivery mechanism for the Assault Squads anyway. Probably keep them pretty cheap.
True, but in this case I'd be tempted to rock a formation based list. You'd also have enough points for the mandatory 2 troops and HQ and still fit in 1-2 solid hitting assault squads.
Ugh, all of these formations and detachments are going to give me an headache when I need to put them into Battlescribe.
I'll order a pack of paracetamol with my book >.>
BoomWolf wrote: The formation is 2 warriors, 2 immortals 1 monolith.
It gives the monolith an ability similar to ghost ark repair that works on the warriors/immortals of the formation, and if targeting warriors its more potent. (2d warriors or d6 immortals if I manage to read right)
Cant read range though...
If that's the case, that might be worth the 800 points for that formation. Get a couple spiders in another detachment or formation and have them keep the monolith alive, that would be a difficult amount of troops to break. 40 warriors and 20 immortals that get 2D6 and D6 back each turn? Too bad we don't have much of anything with 48" range to put behind that to screen for.
BrokenRecord wrote: Can anyone read the Angel's Fury Spearhead Force Formation? That picture is waaaaayyyyy too blurry for me. About all I managed to make out was that some part of it gets Objective Secured... I think...
I am specialised in reading blur. Here's what I could make of it:
Formation:
X Tactical Squads
X Stormraven Gunships
(can't make out the numbers for sure, sorry. But I think it's 3 of each; the picture also supports that)
Restrictions:
Each Tactical Squad must include 10 models. The Sergeant of each Tactical Squad in this Formation may take a teleport homer as a free upgrade. This Formation's Tactical Squads cannot take Dedicated Transports, and must begin the game embarked in the Stormraven Gunships from this Formation.
Special Rules:
Augur Triangulation: If a friendly unit with the Blood Angels Faction arrives from Deep Strike Reserves within 12" of at least one model from this Formation equipped with a teleport homer, then it does not scatter and can charge in the same turn it arrives.
Objective Secured: All Troops units from this Formation have the Objective Secured special rule.
Spearhead Strike Force: When making Reserve Rolls, make a single roll for the entire Formation, which you may choose to re-roll. If successful, all units arrive from this Formation. You can make a Reserve Roll for this formation from the start of Turn 1.
Wait a Minute Stop the dam press. If this is true this could be the most powerful thing done to 40k of any army currently. Lets take a count here: assault terminators , Terminators, DEATH COMPANY, Sang Guard, Command squad, Dante, have to have the rules for DC dread in pods but omg man this is crazy. in the white Dwarf not a 40 dollar supplement wtf no this has to be false.
BrokenRecord wrote: Can anyone read the Angel's Fury Spearhead Force Formation? That picture is waaaaayyyyy too blurry for me. About all I managed to make out was that some part of it gets Objective Secured... I think...
I am specialised in reading blur. Here's what I could make of it:
Formation:
X Tactical Squads
X Stormraven Gunships
(can't make out the numbers for sure, sorry. But I think it's 3 of each; the picture also supports that)
Restrictions:
Each Tactical Squad must include 10 models. The Sergeant of each Tactical Squad in this Formation may take a teleport homer as a free upgrade. This Formation's Tactical Squads cannot take Dedicated Transports, and must begin the game embarked in the Stormraven Gunships from this Formation.
Special Rules:
Augur Triangulation: If a friendly unit with the Blood Angels Faction arrives from Deep Strike Reserves within 12" of at least one model from this Formation equipped with a teleport homer, then it does not scatter and can charge in the same turn it arrives.
Objective Secured: All Troops units from this Formation have the Objective Secured special rule.
Spearhead Strike Force: When making Reserve Rolls, make a single roll for the entire Formation, which you may choose to re-roll. If successful, all units arrive from this Formation. You can make a Reserve Roll for this formation from the start of Turn 1.
Wait a Minute Stop the dam press. If this is true this could be the most powerful thing done to 40k of any army currently. Lets take a count here: assault terminators , Terminators, DEATH COMPANY, Sang Guard, Command squad, Dante, have to have the rules for DC dread in pods but omg man this is crazy.
Yep, and here we were all worried that our Codex sucked!
Yes, a little harder to pull off, but still a very cool delivery tech for deep strikers...and also a bit on the pricey side, cash wise...especially the part where each tac squad must be embarked in a Storm Raven.,..I foresee an increase in sales on these expensive, ugly fliers should this turn out to be accurate...even still, I am tempted to build one of these formations myself! ...as a long term goal of course
Couple this Formation with the Angels Wings (?) relic that prevents Interceptor. You'd have to play some Reserve shenanigans to make it work though - as the formation starts in reserve inside the Stormravens.
Ah. Didn't catch that it can come in on turn 1. Dang. Make sure you get Descent of Angels for that re-roll failed Reserves. Did you need another excuse to take Dante?
Fango wrote: Yes, a little harder to pull off, but still a very cool delivery tech for deep strikers...and also a bit on the pricey side, cash wise...especially the part where each tac squad must be embarked in a Storm Raven.,..I foresee an increase in sales on these expensive, ugly fliers should this turn out to be accurate...even still, I am tempted to build one of these formations myself! ...as a long term goal of course
Yeah, it's definitely pricey, but looks outrageously powerful, especially for the large, armor-filled games my club tends to play. I can't wait to grab a pile of Stormravens and start blowing the bejesus out of stuff on Turn 1!
As far as looks go; you can always add the Chapterhouse extension kits, or otherwise customize the Stormravens to look less terrible!
plastictrees wrote: Sounds like a perfect match for Badab Lamenters. Not that you'll squeeze TOO much in after the required units, but still, very nice.
A little disappointed that it isn't Anger Triangulation though. Sigh...
No my man you get that unit in plain Jane on the cheap I'm hammering out the math right now. looks like maybe 900-1k if you add a few options with priest and Corbulo maybe with a sky shroud landing pad any one? because the formation comes in all at once landing pad allows you to start with a flier on the board in hover. even if this is not allowed you use Corbulo's re roll and get everything in. that is amazing leaving 500-850 points for the hq's and the deep strikers.
BrokenRecord wrote: Can anyone read the Angel's Fury Spearhead Force Formation? That picture is waaaaayyyyy too blurry for me. About all I managed to make out was that some part of it gets Objective Secured... I think...
I am specialised in reading blur. Here's what I could make of it:
Formation:
X Tactical Squads
X Stormraven Gunships
(can't make out the numbers for sure, sorry. But I think it's 3 of each; the picture also supports that)
Restrictions:
Each Tactical Squad must include 10 models. The Sergeant of each Tactical Squad in this Formation may take a teleport homer as a free upgrade. This Formation's Tactical Squads cannot take Dedicated Transports, and must begin the game embarked in the Stormraven Gunships from this Formation.
Special Rules:
Augur Triangulation: If a friendly unit with the Blood Angels Faction arrives from Deep Strike Reserves within 12" of at least one/two model(s) from this Formation equipped with a teleport homer, then it does not scatter and can charge in the same turn it arrives.
Objective Secured: All Troops units from this Formation have the Objective Secured special rule.
Spearhead Strike Force: When making Reserve Rolls, make a single roll for the entire Formation, which you may choose to re-roll. If successful, all units arrive from this Formation. You can make a Reserve Roll for this formation from the start of Turn 1.
That's insane. Expensive, yes, but holy crap. It's also quite thematic. 3 flyers entering the board, while the rest of the army jumps from the skies around them. Talk about decent of angels.
BrokenRecord wrote: Can anyone read the Angel's Fury Spearhead Force Formation? That picture is waaaaayyyyy too blurry for me. About all I managed to make out was that some part of it gets Objective Secured... I think...
I am specialised in reading blur. Here's what I could make of it:
Formation:
X Tactical Squads
X Stormraven Gunships
(can't make out the numbers, sorry)
Restrictions:
Each Tactical Squad must include 10 models. The Sergeant of each Tactical Squad in this Formation make take a teleport homer as a free upgrade. This Formation's Tactical Squads cannot take Dedicated Transports, and must begin the game embarked in the Stormraven Gunships from this Formation.
Special Rules:
Augur Triangulation: If a friendly unit with the Blood Angels Faction arrives from Deep Strike Reserves within 12" of at least one model from this Formation equipped with a teleport homer, then it does not scatter and can charge in the same turn it arrives.
Objective Secured: All Troops units from this Formation have the Objective Secured special rule.
Spearhead Strike Force: When making Reserve Rolls, make a single roll for the entire Formation, which you may choose to re-roll. If successful, all units arrive from this Formation. You can make a Reserve Roll for this formation from the start of Turn 1.
Is that incredible or is it just me? Will that enable assault squads to assault out of deep strike, or just terminators?
Plus Corbulo and another priest with 6x special weapons for the tac squads I'm at 1275, that a nice 275 in addition to all this at 1500 and at 1850 (575) wow the list can be really GREAT.
Corbulo is in basically for the re roll he gives to make this come in first turn after that you can use it for what ever if you do not need it.
You don't need Corbulo for the reroll. The formation already states you may choose to reroll the reserve roll. As you can never reroll a reroll, Corbulo is a bit redundant there.
While I will likely never use that formation, the idea and imagery of a bunch of fliers swooping in while jump troops drop between them and straight into combat is awesome!
dangit! I don't need another army...but I already have the Deathstorm box...those Death Company could be combined with a tac squad and with a little converting, could make decent BA assault marines with JPs....plus all of my unassembled marines don't HAVE to get painted green...hmmm
I started a Topic just on the Angels Fury formation. Corbulo can use the re roll for a lot seize or others. Also keeping the Tacs alive longer on top of objectives. Also this Thread was about the 2nd book not about the upcoming WD no point in Hi-jacking this one for a WD specific item.
So...I guess I am going to need some Stormravens and Tactical Squads. Did GeeDubs just trick me into spending ($43+$78)×However many you are required to take?
casvalremdeikun wrote: So...I guess I am going to need some Stormravens and Tactical Squads. Did GeeDubs just trick me into spending ($43+$78)×However many you are required to take?
Potentially, although Tac marines are so common that you could get them for cheaper than that if you don't want exactly the new BA tacs.
Paradigm wrote: You don't need Corbulo for the reroll. The formation already states you may choose to reroll the reserve roll. As you can never reroll a reroll, Corbulo is a bit redundant there.
Ooh, hilarious I thought this Formation was awesome and even better if they could re-roll their Reserve, but apparently it's already included.
Perfect! If only I liked Stormraven Gunships..
If I had the time and the patience, I would certainly be that guy and go to great lengths to make a post with all the quotes crying how blood angels deserve something special from their storm ravens after all the grubby normal chapters stole all their toys without giving anything in return.
Hilarious in the blood angel tactics thread all the people moaning at how it is a sub par/awful codex....
endlesswaltz123 wrote: If I had the time and the patience, I would certainly be that guy and go to great lengths to make a post with all the quotes crying how blood angels deserve something special from their storm ravens after all the grubby normal chapters stole all their toys without giving anything in return.
Hilarious in the blood angel tactics thread all the people moaning at how it is a sub par/awful codex....
Looks like it will be 'THE' top tier army now.
Well, I guess, technically, our Codex does suck something fierce, it's just that we received some of the most ridiculously awesome supplemental content of all time, which more than makes up for it.
Now excuse me while I go build Stormravens and cackle maniacally!
they just wanted to be able to use exactly the same list and tactics that they were using before.....
(but I do feel at least some of them will be quietly cancelling their ebay auctions and backing out of the deals they made to sell their armies to a mate...)
Does the teleport homer work while the tactical marines are embarked in the storm raven? if not you have to drop off the tacticals and pray they can endure a turn of shooting before you can no scatter drop a cc bomb on them.
BeeCee wrote: Does the teleport homer work while the tactical marines are embarked in the storm raven? if not you have to drop off the tacticals and pray they can endure a turn of shooting before you can no scatter drop a cc bomb on them.
If you can use it without them ever getting out that would be super nifty. Almost too nifty, haha. I have my doubts.
BeeCee wrote: Does the teleport homer work while the tactical marines are embarked in the storm raven? if not you have to drop off the tacticals and pray they can endure a turn of shooting before you can no scatter drop a cc bomb on them.
Correct, you move the storm ravens to hover mode and forward. Deploy the tac's , then deep strike and assault with the force that comes in after. Every tac squad has the homer riding in 3 storm ravens that will come in shooting there army to shreds. So the storms protect the tacs inside, the tacts jump out shoot, possible assault along with the new units that arrive deep striking. O ya you still got storm ravens on the board and tacs so no auto lose. While I was pointing at Curbulo's ability to re-roll that deep striking alpha assaulting unit coming inbound.
BeeCee wrote: Does the teleport homer work while the tactical marines are embarked in the storm raven? if not you have to drop off the tacticals and pray they can endure a turn of shooting before you can no scatter drop a cc bomb on them.
If you can use it without them ever getting out that would be super nifty. Almost too nifty, haha. I have my doubts.
Within 12" of the tactical marines can the DS units drop down and assault from. Tactical marines behind/in cover is one option. Also, if you are feeling particularly brave, you could drop the tac marines within assault range infront of the enemy, if they can get into a unit that they won't kill in one turn of shooting & assault then they are protected from a round of shooting at least.
BeeCee wrote: Does the teleport homer work while the tactical marines are embarked in the storm raven? if not you have to drop off the tacticals and pray they can endure a turn of shooting before you can no scatter drop a cc bomb on them.
If you can use it without them ever getting out that would be super nifty. Almost too nifty, haha. I have my doubts.
Within 12" of the tactical marines can the DS units drop down and assault from. Tactical marines behind/in cover is one option. Also, if you are feeling particularly brave, you could put the storm raven in hover mode to assault the tac marines quite out of it, if they can get into a unit that they won't kill in one turn of assault then they are protected from a round of shooting at least.
The Tac's and the storm's are still restricted to the cannot assault the 1st turn they come in, It is the units that deep strike to them that is very carefully done by GW.
The Tacs are on the field inside the storm ravens no point in deploying them getting shot up until your turn. Then you deploy them to do the shooting assault weapons would be best here because you can still assault with them after they shoot. This formation will be all about taking out all the interception and AA with the storm raven's, then using the deep strikers to kill all the heavy armor.
Drakmord wrote: It looks like the Necron formation requires that the revived units be placed within 6" of the Monolith. Can't make out anything after that.
Do formations generally have additional costs to them? If not, I'll rock this formation forever.
Generally, no. The Formation tends to dictate loadout in many cases, but you don't pay more.
BeeCee wrote: Does the teleport homer work while the tactical marines are embarked in the storm raven? if not you have to drop off the tacticals and pray they can endure a turn of shooting before you can no scatter drop a cc bomb on them.
Correct, you move the storm ravens to hover mode and forward. Deploy the tac's , then deep strike and assault with the force that comes in after. Every tac squad has the homer riding in 3 storm ravens that will come in shooting there army to shreds. So the storms protect the tacs inside, the tacts jump out shoot, possible assault along with the new units that arrive deep striking. O ya you still got storm ravens on the board and tacs so no auto lose. While I was pointing at Curbulo's ability to re-roll that deep striking alpha assaulting unit coming inbound.
I don't have the rule book in front of me so i could be wrong, but since in this formation you can roll for reserves 1, are the storm ravens allowed to enter hover mode to drop the tactical squads during that first turn? Cause isn't the first thing you have to do at the start of your next movement phase is roll for reserves?
pretre wrote: They can use the homers in thestormravens can't they?
Barring an faq I do not see why not. I was thinking drop 1-2 in hover dropping off the tacs on objectives. Zooming the other into enemy area drop the madness. You can dreep strike them in and disembark yes. But it leaves them open to shooting, they can then shoot but not assault. Turn 2 they can disembark, deep strike in help, shoot , and assault with the back up.
This is ofc after the 3 storm ravens have shot up the feild the first turn. Thinking a mix of assault cannons, hurricane bolters, and a few las cannon shots , do not forget you have POTMS so you can select several targets with the storms variable set up 2 to cut down troops , 1 to hit hard targets.
Can someone explain why Furioso Dreads, coming out of drop pods, would or would not be able to assault due to interacting with the Angel's Fury Spearhead?
Thanks.
House Griffith wrote: Can someone explain why Furioso Dreads, coming out of drop pods, would or would not be able to assault due to interacting with the Angel's Fury Spearhead?
Thanks.
Because your pod is deep striking not the dread. It could shoot yes assault I would air on the side of caution. If it could then hell ya with dc dreads all day long.
House Griffith wrote: Can someone explain why Furioso Dreads, coming out of drop pods, would or would not be able to assault due to interacting with the Angel's Fury Spearhead?
Thanks.
Because your pod is deep striking not the dread. It could shoot yes assault I would air on the side of caution. If it could then hell ya with dc dreads all day long.
Could you say that the rule from the formation, since it says friendly units arriving from deep strike reserves, means that technically the furioso is doing so? "Arriving from deep strike reserves".
It doesn't say that the model has to have the deep strike rule.
No, I don't think the wording would support that. I'm not sure why no one has mentioned it but wouldn't simply putting the dread in the back of the storm raven and dropping it off that way (which deploys it via deep strike) work instead? Just make sure you drop it within 6" of the final position of the storm raven so you can get the locator beacon bonus and the rule from the formation.
casvalremdeikun wrote: So despite them being Teleport Homers, it works on stuff other than Terminators? I guess I am happy with that.
Well the picture if correct does say Deep Strike. So that would include assaults with jump packs, DC, Sang Guard, Terms , possibly dreads even, but it is all in how it is worded. As the picture is not totally clear it is hard to say 100%. A better picture without question will tell the tale.
WarBoss may be correct. After all it does not mean that dreads could not roll with the formation they would just not get all the bonuses. I would look less at Dreads personally and more at the aspect of DC and Terms will do for a more models for points value.
pretre wrote: They can use the homers in thestormravens can't they?
Barring an faq I do not see why not. I was thinking drop 1-2 in hover dropping off the tacs on objectives. Zooming the other into enemy area drop the madness. You can dreep strike them in and disembark yes. But it leaves them open to shooting, they can then shoot but not assault. Turn 2 they can disembark, deep strike in help, shoot , and assault with the back up.
This is ofc after the 3 storm ravens have shot up the feild the first turn. Thinking a mix of assault cannons, hurricane bolters, and a few las cannon shots , do not forget you have POTMS so you can select several targets with the storms variable set up 2 to cut down troops , 1 to hit hard targets.
aren't reserves rolled for at the start of the turn, if the teleport homers in the tac squads haven't been disembarked yet in the first turn wouldn't any incoming models in the second turn not receive the benefits of the no scatter and assault rule of the formation? Sure they could use the locator beacons, i guess.
Just want to make sure I understand how the formation works
pretre wrote: They can use the homers in thestormravens can't they?
Barring an faq I do not see why not. I was thinking drop 1-2 in hover dropping off the tacs on objectives. Zooming the other into enemy area drop the madness. You can dreep strike them in and disembark yes. But it leaves them open to shooting, they can then shoot but not assault. Turn 2 they can disembark, deep strike in help, shoot , and assault with the back up.
This is ofc after the 3 storm ravens have shot up the feild the first turn. Thinking a mix of assault cannons, hurricane bolters, and a few las cannon shots , do not forget you have POTMS so you can select several targets with the storms variable set up 2 to cut down troops , 1 to hit hard targets.
aren't reserves rolled for at the start of the turn, if the teleport homers in the tac squads haven't been disembarked yet in the first turn wouldn't any incoming models in the second turn not receive the benefits of the no scatter and assault rule of the formation? Sure they could use the locator beacons, i guess.
Just want to make sure I understand how the formation works
All I guess if the rules say that models inside a transport are on the battlefield then they can. After all models inside a transport with fire points after all can fire out of the transports via firing points.
pretre wrote: They can use the homers in thestormravens can't they?
Barring an faq I do not see why not. I was thinking drop 1-2 in hover dropping off the tacs on objectives. Zooming the other into enemy area drop the madness. You can dreep strike them in and disembark yes. But it leaves them open to shooting, they can then shoot but not assault. Turn 2 they can disembark, deep strike in help, shoot , and assault with the back up.
This is ofc after the 3 storm ravens have shot up the feild the first turn. Thinking a mix of assault cannons, hurricane bolters, and a few las cannon shots , do not forget you have POTMS so you can select several targets with the storms variable set up 2 to cut down troops , 1 to hit hard targets.
aren't reserves rolled for at the start of the turn, if the teleport homers in the tac squads haven't been disembarked yet in the first turn wouldn't any incoming models in the second turn not receive the benefits of the no scatter and assault rule of the formation? Sure they could use the locator beacons, i guess.
Just want to make sure I understand how the formation works
You could just use the Skies of Fury rule and drop your tac squads during the first turn from your zooming Raven
pretre wrote: They can use the homers in thestormravens can't they?
Barring an faq I do not see why not. I was thinking drop 1-2 in hover dropping off the tacs on objectives. Zooming the other into enemy area drop the madness. You can dreep strike them in and disembark yes. But it leaves them open to shooting, they can then shoot but not assault. Turn 2 they can disembark, deep strike in help, shoot , and assault with the back up.
This is ofc after the 3 storm ravens have shot up the feild the first turn. Thinking a mix of assault cannons, hurricane bolters, and a few las cannon shots , do not forget you have POTMS so you can select several targets with the storms variable set up 2 to cut down troops , 1 to hit hard targets.
aren't reserves rolled for at the start of the turn, if the teleport homers in the tac squads haven't been disembarked yet in the first turn wouldn't any incoming models in the second turn not receive the benefits of the no scatter and assault rule of the formation? Sure they could use the locator beacons, i guess.
Just want to make sure I understand how the formation works
You could just use the Skies of Fury rule and drop your tac squads during the first turn from your zooming Raven
True, just trying to think of ways to take advantage of the models being able to assault out of deep strike especially if they come on turn 2. Skies of fury would probably work best even with the scatter, I think coming on in hover mode, might not get you close enough
So let me get this straight.
-So the entire formation comes in on Turn 2 (3+ re-rollable).
-You can choose to either have the Ravens come in either zooming or Hover mode.
When are you allowed to take advantage of the teleport homers?
Are subsequent DS units allowed to use them Turn 2?
Also can DS units be affected by the Homer even if the model holding the Homer is inside a vehicle? In other words do the Tacs have to get out of the Stormravens?
So let me get this straight. -So the entire formation comes in on Turn 2 (3+ re-rollable). Turn 1 actually -You can choose to either have the Ravens come in either zooming or Hover mode. Yup When are you allowed to take advantage of the teleport homers? At the start of the turn when you roll for reserves Are subsequent DS units allowed to use them Turn 2? Yup. If the unit bearing the teleport homer is on the board at the start of turn 2
Also can DS units be affected by the Homer even if the model holding the Homer is inside a vehicle? In other words do the Tacs have to get out of the Stormravens? I want to know the answer to this as well. Can teleport homers work inside vehicles?
That's not too bad. The scouts can go hide and seize any undefended objectives while the Libby rides on one of the Ravens. If teleport homers do work inside vehicles, you just zoom Ravens around on turn 1 taking out threats and then by turn 2 you can have your hammernators and DC taking out high priority targets while your ravens unload your combat-squadded tac squads to burn and bolter. Not to mention 3 Stormravens flying around taking out AV targets and FMCs.
You do not have to pay a troop tax formations are allowed inside the combined arms detachment it self. You can have multiple formations inside the FOC long as they fit. With the existing slots for the units avalible page 121 BrB.
Fireraven wrote: You do not have to pay a troop tax formations are allowed inside the combined arms detachment it self. You can have multiple formations inside the FOC long as they fit. With the existing slots for the units avalible page 121 BrB.
Fireraven wrote: You do not have to pay a troop tax formations are allowed inside the combined arms detachment it self. You can have multiple formations inside the FOC long as they fit. With the existing slots for the units avalible page 121 BrB.
I will elaborate on this slightly going by the BRB pages 116-122 most focus being on page 121. Now we know the Angel's Fury is a formation as it is listed as such. so now we look at the restrictions, command benefits, and formation sections. Also the detachment section page 118 middle. With the start of There is no limit to the number of detachments. Again all this is limited by the players house rules or the Number of sources allowed by a TO. But lets look at The formations and fluff so far released. We have source 1 Codex, 2 Deathstorm, and 3 White Dwarf. so a 2 source rule restriction ( most common).
You would use WD Angel's Fury.
Angel's Fury- takes up 3 Troop and 3 Heavy main points given from this Ob Sec to these 3 troops only, Embarked onto the Storm Ravens not optional, Turn 1 re-rollable Deep Strike, All units of the blood angel faction deep striking can do so and assault after ( Turn 2) with the Requirement of x inches ect ect.
Now all the the Angel's Fury but the 3 troops will have Ob Sec.
Now lets go 2 sources- Above using Deathstorm.
You can even use the DC and Cassor as troops even allow Cassor to ride in the Storm Raven's after all he is a Dread and these are not carrying none nor is there a restriction saying you cannot.
Be exact you can run the whole formation or just Specific units.
Now if you run the whole Deathstorm formation total its 1 hq , 1 elite, 2 troops.
Leaving 1 hq , 3 Elites, 1 troop , 3 FA, And 1 lord and fort.
Now the Deathstorm unit again has Against all Odds and Bloody Toll while not gaining orb sec.
What you get, well you get a lot #1 you get Seize the initiative on a 5+ , You get orb sec on 3 troops, you get Against all odds on the Deathstorm guys as well as bloody toll, and while Captian is alive you can RE-Roll any reserve rolls. That's one hell of an alpha strike
So to lay it out, You will get Seize on a 5+ re roll, Get the turn 1 storms, get the dc, the terms, and Cassor (DC DREAD) and the captain all re-rolling to wound on that 2nd turn deep striking ball of death. + 105 points in an 1850 game to pimp out the Tac's and Stormraven's
So I maybe a little off on this, but you can run these formations separate under a battle forged army and have the Angel's deep strike turn 1 make the death storm your warlord with seize and re-rollable turn 2 assault strike.
A Formation is a special type of Detachment. You cannot put a detachment in a detachment. You can make a legal Battle-Forged army by taking any combination of Formations and regular Detachments.
A formation is a type of detachment as specified by the first sentence of the Formation subsection. (digital version so no page numbers) On 4th paragraph of 'Detachments' it says in bold that 'no unit can belong to more than one detachment'. So it can not be part of CAD or equivalent and still count towards a Formation.
SharkoutofWata wrote: A formation is a type of detachment as specified by the first sentence of the Formation subsection. (digital version so no page numbers) On 4th paragraph of 'Detachments' it says in bold that 'no unit can belong to more than one detachment'. So it can not be part of CAD or equivalent and still count towards a Formation.
Yes with the first line being , There is no limit to the number of Detachments, point being? , Also look at the Command benefits section. so the Angel's has it and the Deathstorm has there's , and the Libby is not even required. So pimp out the Angel's detachment and roll with the Deathstorm as your 2nd turn all alpha force, thus you do not use anything from the codex. Leaves you with 105 to put on the Tacs and storm ravens in an 1850 game with the army still being Battle Forged.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make anymore. Yes you can take two Formations, or any number of them, and never use a Force Org chart of any kind. But you can't use the Tacitcals in Angel's Fury to count towards anything in any other type of Detachment. They're not part of a CAD or the 4 Elite detachment in the BA codex. They are separate completely and interact with any model not in that Formation according to the allies matrix. In this case it's Battle Brothers but they are still essentially two seperate army lists put next to each other.
I edited the post I made since the multiple uses is debatable and went with using both detachments into a battle forged army which is perfectly legal and not unbound.
Melcavuk wrote: I can see the debate here on troop tax, however surely its simply a matter of:
Storm Raven Formation
Archangel CAD as allies
You skip the troops requirement altogether and can instead take dreads, terminators etc as your Elite filled list?
You're right and with the Archangel Formation rules allowing you to re-reroll reserve rolls for your termies you're almost guaranteed them coming in during your 2nd turn
Given that the Tactical Squads in Angel 's Fury are ObSec, the Archangel CAD does seem to be one of the best ways to avoid the Troop Tax. Angel's Fury is balanced by the fact it is expensive. It takes up over half your points.
Angel's wrath gives the jump pack players a reason to keep it going. And Fury gives us new guys something to salivate over. Might not be competitive but it looks like fun. Very good additions.
Having to be within 12" of 2 Teleport homers is a bit tougher. And since I don't think they work inside a transport (hopefully I'm wrong) that makes it even tougher. It's not a no brainer choice but it's still interesting. Especially for larger games.
I didn't realize that angel's fury storrmraven formation required 3 of them as it was blurry on the first page. I just figured people were taking 3 in their sample army lists because it was more efficient to specialize and spam, not because they had to. I've only got one stormraven and I have no plans on getting more so I guess that is out for me.
So what do you guys think is best setup for the Angel's Wrath force? 5 man all 3 squads and set the 2 Assault Squads up for melta duty? Max size them all and use them to fill the enemy backfield with a melee marine swarm?
Mmm, yes, Angel's Wrath is going to become the go to formation for Assault Marines.
Leaves slots opens for Bikes if you fancy such things and takes some of the pressure off our poor Elites section. (Seriously, this thing is way too overcrowded now. Death Company, Terminators, Command Squads, Veterans, Lemartes, Sanguinary Guard...ugh. This thing is just way, way too crowded to be comfortable.)
Mind you the Archangels Strike Force from Exterminatus might also have been an option as an allied detachment if the requirement that allied detachments had a different Faction wasn't there. Boo.
Guess we can only really hope for more detachments to allow further flexibility, right?
I am thinking the teleport homer should work just like a banner would. When embark on a vehicle, and we need to measure the distance from the embark unit, we use the hull of the vehicle.
BrokenRecord wrote: Can anyone read the Angel's Fury Spearhead Force Formation? That picture is waaaaayyyyy too blurry for me. About all I managed to make out was that some part of it gets Objective Secured... I think...
I am specialised in reading blur. Here's what I could make of it:
Formation:
X Tactical Squads
X Stormraven Gunships
(can't make out the numbers for sure, sorry. But I think it's 3 of each; the picture also supports that)
Restrictions:
Each Tactical Squad must include 10 models. The Sergeant of each Tactical Squad in this Formation may take a teleport homer as a free upgrade. This Formation's Tactical Squads cannot take Dedicated Transports, and must begin the game embarked in the Stormraven Gunships from this Formation.
Special Rules:
Augur Triangulation: If a friendly unit with the Blood Angels Faction arrives from Deep Strike Reserves within 12" of at least one model from this Formation equipped with a teleport homer, then it does not scatter and can charge in the same turn it arrives.
Objective Secured: All Troops units from this Formation have the Objective Secured special rule.
Spearhead Strike Force: When making Reserve Rolls, make a single roll for the entire Formation, which you may choose to re-roll. If successful, all units arrive from this Formation. You can make a Reserve Roll for this formation from the start of Turn 1.
Wait a Minute Stop the dam press. If this is true this could be the most powerful thing done to 40k of any army currently. Lets take a count here: assault terminators , Terminators, DEATH COMPANY, Sang Guard, Command squad, Dante, have to have the rules for DC dread in pods but omg man this is crazy.
Yep, and here we were all worried that our Codex sucked!
To fair the codex does suck, these formations are separate and would have made the old one better too.
Hulksmash wrote: True, but in this case I'd be tempted to rock a formation based list. You'd also have enough points for the mandatory 2 troops and HQ and still fit in 1-2 solid hitting assault squads.
I am assuming you say that because of the silly CAD requirement tournaments are still hung up on otherwise why not just take the other formation with VV and 3 AS? Seems to me they were meant to be paired.
The problem with that is that I can't seem to find that anywhere in the rules anymore. It used to be in the actual rules in 6th. Hopefully I'm just inept and haven't seen it
To fair the codex does suck, these formations are separate and would have made the old one better too.
Tyranids 2.0.
As a Tyranid player the fact my Flesh Tearers are getting the same 'WOAH, What the Feth is this organisation?' codex treatment accompanied by Formations that suddenly make us viable and good has me laughing.
Hulksmash wrote: True, but in this case I'd be tempted to rock a formation based list. You'd also have enough points for the mandatory 2 troops and HQ and still fit in 1-2 solid hitting assault squads.
I am assuming you say that because of the silly CAD requirement tournaments are still hung up on otherwise why not just take the other formation with VV and 3 AS? Seems to me they were meant to be paired.
Yeah, if they don't require CAD I'd be tempted to run a formation based army. If they did require CAD there are enough points for it to still get some good CC units.
Hulksmash wrote: True, but in this case I'd be tempted to rock a formation based list. You'd also have enough points for the mandatory 2 troops and HQ and still fit in 1-2 solid hitting assault squads.
I am assuming you say that because of the silly CAD requirement tournaments are still hung up on otherwise why not just take the other formation with VV and 3 AS? Seems to me they were meant to be paired.
Yeah, if they don't require CAD I'd be tempted to run a formation based army. If they did require CAD there are enough points for it to still get some good CC units.
Plus, you know, the bubble of damage around the Assault squads DSing is so much better than the Warp Talons' somewhat erratic blind effect. (Hey guys, take an initiative test in a largely I4+ meta. Totes worth paying a bucket load of points for this unit when you could have a Heldrake instead!)
It would also be funny to use the elites formation (forgot name) To avoid the troop tax and get 3 death company dreadnoughts attached to those ravens that arrive turn 1 angry dubstep dreads will smash face turn 2.
Hulksmash wrote: True, but in this case I'd be tempted to rock a formation based list. You'd also have enough points for the mandatory 2 troops and HQ and still fit in 1-2 solid hitting assault squads.
I am assuming you say that because of the silly CAD requirement tournaments are still hung up on otherwise why not just take the other formation with VV and 3 AS? Seems to me they were meant to be paired.
Yeah, if they don't require CAD I'd be tempted to run a formation based army. If they did require CAD there are enough points for it to still get some good CC units.
I honestly don't understand why there are restrictions anymore, it has long since passed the point where it is fruitful and I believe it's making things more out of balance.
Red Corsair wrote: It would also be funny to use the elites formation (forgot name) To avoid the troop tax and get 3 death company dreadnoughts attached to those ravens that arrive turn 1 angry dubstep dreads will smash face turn 2.
Except the Archangel's SF only has a set list of things you can take in it. No Death Company.
If it wasn't restricted then I'd be all over that as a primary deatchment - As that would mean my Terminators, 2 squads of 10 Death Company, Death Company Dreadnought, Lemartes, Vanguard and Sternguard could all be slotted into one detachment and I could probably use formations to pad out the rest.
I honestly don't understand why there are restrictions anymore, it has long since passed the point where it is fruitful and I believe it's making things more out of balance.
Tell me about it. Trying to even think of organising local tournaments is ridiculous.
Standard Rulebook Battleforged is, in theory, as follows.
But then people started asking if it there were caps on the numbers of different types of detachments - as an AM army could essentially take a Veteran tax for a CAD and flood the board with allied detachments or formations.
And then you have to realise Imperials get even sillier with their detachments.
And again, the same AM army could go to town for a minimal CAD with spammed allies from all different codexes and bonus detachments.
Still - nice to see some formations that really help buffer the Codex impact.
Though I suspect the Angel's Wrath formation is practically mandatory as a 'free' Assault squad bubble with some extra pressure off the Elite's section.
Mavnas wrote: But it's not an allied detachment. Allied detachment is specifically the 1 HQ 1 troop thing in the book.
Curious. So, in theory...
Can you take a Combined Arms detachment AND the Archangel's Strike Force?
If so that's a huge amount of pressure off our force org chart.
Also gives me ideas. However, looking at it the Battleforged rules specifically state only CAD, Allied and Formations.
And most of these variant detachment structures seem to state taking one instead of the CAD.
You could take a Baal Strike Force, 2 Combined Arms Detachments, 3 Archangel's Strike Forces, 4 Angel's Fury formations and 5 Angel's Wrath formations and still be a legal Battleforged army, as long as you meet the requirement of each specific detachment. It's just house rules and tournaments that apply their own arbitrary restrictions.
Guys, just to remind you. Please don't cry, rage or explode if your all Elite, or whatever shenanigans army gets invalidated by the next codex *searchcover*
rhavien wrote: Guys, just to remind you. Please don't cry, rage or explode if your all Elite, or whatever shenanigans army gets invalidated by the next codex *searchcover*
The current pattern seems to be screw over folks who paid $50 for the codex and then give them back some of the utility they lost with an additional $45 purchase?
Hulksmash wrote: So teleport homers should work inside of the transports so you don't have to get out. Found the wording I was looking for under embarking.
So that's a solid formation.
wow, that is crazy. Hulk, would you toss me a page # for this? I am at work, not working but not willing to blatantly slack by firing up the rulebook pdfs.
The problem with that is that I can't seem to find that anywhere in the rules anymore. It used to be in the actual rules in 6th. Hopefully I'm just inept and haven't seen it
Hulksmash wrote:So teleport homers should work inside of the transports so you don't have to get out. Found the wording I was looking for under embarking.
So that's a solid formation.
Hulksmash wrote:I have a digital copy but it's the 1st paragraph after Embarking. Last sentence.
Yes it is under embarking under transport. It is page 80 of the mini rulebook.
That the sentence I was going for. Therefore I can use my telport homer while embarked on a vehicle. Unless someone else can find a page that say I can not do that, or a Faq.
No problemo. I wanted to find it too. And I'd say that since other area things specify when they dont' measure from the hull (KFF and Power Field) that I can't see any problem with it.
DO ITTOIT wrote: So what do you guys think is best setup for the Angel's Wrath force? 5 man all 3 squads and set the 2 Assault Squads up for melta duty? Max size them all and use them to fill the enemy backfield with a melee marine swarm?
Didn't it say that all three Tac squads had to be full 10-man squads embarked on Ravens?I think 5-manning them has to be done at deployment, how would you do that per the rules exactly?
DO ITTOIT wrote: So what do you guys think is best setup for the Angel's Wrath force? 5 man all 3 squads and set the 2 Assault Squads up for melta duty? Max size them all and use them to fill the enemy backfield with a melee marine swarm?
Didn't it say that all three Tac squads had to be full 10-man squads embarked on Ravens?I think 5-manning them has to be done at deployment, how would you do that per the rules exactly?
Angel's Wrath is the Vanguard-Assault Squad formation.
I'm probably going to go with a slightly bigger amount myself. 8-8-8. Because Flesh Tearers should clearly use khornate numbers. Honest.
You could also add a locator beacon to one or so of the storm ravens and have a no scatter deep strike, that way you never miss the "within 12" of two" part due to scatter....
Forcast wrote: You could also add a locator beacon to one or so of the storm ravens and have a no scatter deep strike, that way you never miss the "within 12" of two" part due to scatter....
Seems good
Am i missing something? if you via deep strike arriving within 2 homers, you dont scatter in that formation anyway
Also guys inside drop pods coming in via deep strike would count as deep strike right?
Forcast wrote: You could also add a locator beacon to one or so of the storm ravens and have a no scatter deep strike, that way you never miss the "within 12" of two" part due to scatter....
Seems good
Am i missing something? if you via deep strike arriving within 2 homers, you dont scatter in that formation anyway
Also guys inside drop pods coming in via deep strike would count as deep strike right?
Suddenly T1 assault dreads YEAH!
This is the big question, especially when it comes to Furioso Dreads.
The formation rules state units arriving via deepstrike don't scatter. So if they're in a drop pod, technically they "arrive" via deep strike, without actually having the deep strike rule for that unit (because they're in the pod). The drop pod does not confer it's deep stike rule to the unit inside.
Since the fomation rule seems to only refer to the deep striking unit being affected (i.e. the drop pod) this opens the debate as to whether or not the units inside can assault.
I don't think you could assault with the Dreadnought on Turn 1 because, unless I am mistaken, the Dreadnought in the Pod would arrive first, because it comes in automatically.
They would obviously not need to roll but you get to go through reserves and movement order at your own discretion IIRC.
And ether way though Chuck some Dreads on the underside of the ravens, bring more in T2 drop pods, lock and load for T2 massive assault with everyone poping out and charging all the things would be awesome i think.
They would obviously not need to roll but you get to go through reserves and movement order at your own discretion IIRC.
And ether way though Chuck some Dreads on the underside of the ravens, bring more in T2 drop pods, lock and load for T2 massive assault with everyone poping out and charging all the things would be awesome i think.
Re-reading the Drop Pod page in the codex, there's nothing stopping you from bringing them in after the Stormravens. We've always played that Drop Pods arrive at the very start of Turn 1, before anything, including reserve rolls happen, and then the turn begins as usual; I guess we've just been playing a houserule this entire time and not realized it.
I would still argue that a Dread wouldn't be able to assault since they don't deepstrike, the pod does. But it's still a super amazing formation. Even if it does take up 66% of your points after being equipped
Hulksmash wrote: It deployed from a unit that arrived from deepstrike
This is the correct answer - the dreadnought doesn't have deep strike, it arrives from reserves, but the dreadnought itself never actually deep strikes. It disembarks from a vehicle.
The old Mystics "free shots" rule in C: DH was FAQd as allowing shots at both the pod and the disembarking unit as they both arrived from deep strike. Obviously out of date and different scenario, but some basis for the disembarking unit to be treated as having arrived from reserves via deepstrike.
It doesn't really matter if the Dread counts as Deep Striking. Drop Pods have a specific rule disallowing assaults:
Drop Pod Assault: “(...) A unit that Deep Strikes via Drop Pod cannot charge in the turn it arrives.”
The formation's rule doesn't specifically remove that restriction.
In other news, I can't wait to see the detachment for the BA 2nd company and the Flesh Tearers. I'm sure at least one of them is going to be Fast Attack heavy. I'm not sure what's special about the 2nd company.
MasterSlowPoke wrote: It doesn't really matter if the Dread counts as Deep Striking. Drop Pods have a specific rule disallowing assaults:
Drop Pod Assault: “(...) A unit that Deep Strikes via Drop Pod cannot charge in the turn it arrives.”
That passage is not in the 'Drop Pod Assault' rules in Codex Blood Angels. The only thing that would prevent them from assaulting on the turn they arrive from Deep Strike is in the main rulebook rules for 'Deep Strike' As such, it would be overridden by Basic versus Advanced. The Dreadnought would indeed be able to assault.
Glad I picked up those two Stormravens recently. Looks like I'll have to snag another.
Sadly, this means I'll be shelving my latest Ork project, yet again. Now I just need to find a list of all the BA Successor chapters and see what color scheme I want to paint up (because, frankly, as much as I loved my Lamenters, I really, really dislike painting yellow.)
I was just complaining on ToF about the lack of balance with assault. These detachments may take things too far (time will tell), but I appreciate GW being willing to try to swing the pendulum back.
MasterSlowPoke wrote: It doesn't really matter if the Dread counts as Deep Striking. Drop Pods have a specific rule disallowing assaults:
Drop Pod Assault: “(...) A unit that Deep Strikes via Drop Pod cannot charge in the turn it arrives.”
That passage is not in the 'Drop Pod Assault' rules in Codex Blood Angels. The only thing that would prevent them from assaulting on the turn they arrive from Deep Strike is in the main rulebook rules for 'Deep Strike' As such, it would be overridden by Basic versus Advanced. The Dreadnought would indeed be able to assault.
That isn't how the rules (or more fundamentally logic) works. The absence of something doesn't provide an exception. By your logic, the basic rules tell me to use a d6 but the codex BA doesn't mention that so I can use a d20 for each roll. See how that doesn't work? What you're mistakenly talking about would be correct if the codex provided an actual exception to the general rule of not assaulting after a deep strike like the old vanguard rules in the previous codex did. The dread can't assault out of a pod but he can do so if he uses skies of fury and deep strikes out the back of the storm ravens you're taking anyways.
Yes, that is how the rules work. You have a direct conflict, with one saying that you can not assault on the turn you Deep Strike and one saying you can assault on the turn you Deep Strike. Your example is flawed because there is no rule saying you can use a D20, but there is a rule saying you can assault after you Deep Strike.
The Angel's Fury Spearhead Detachment would allow the Dreadnought to assault as long as it was within range of the two homers.
Ghaz wrote: Yes, that is how the rules work. You have a direct conflict, with one saying that you can not assault on the turn you Deep Strike and one saying you can assault on the turn you Deep Strike. Your example is flawed because there is no rule saying you can use a D20, but there is a rule saying you can assault after you Deep Strike.
The Angel's Fury Spearhead Detachment would allow the Dreadnought to assault as long as it was within range of the two homers.
That would only be true if the dread was deepstriking... it isn't. The drop pod is. The dread is deep striking as much as the tacticals inside the storm ravens are zooming. Neither are; the transports they are in have the special rules and are doing so.
Sorry, but you making assumptions. The Dreadnought was inside the Drop Pod. where was the Drop Pod? In Deep Strike Reserve. The Dreadnought hence arrived from Deep Strike Reserve via the pod even though the Dreadnought itself did not Deep Strike.
Drop Pod Assault: Drop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in Deep Strike
Reserves. At the beginning of your first turn, half your Drop Pods (rounding up)
automatically arrive from Reserve. The arrival of remaining Drop Pods is rolled for normally.
I'm now on the side of dreads being able to assault on the drop.
I know everyone's doing the whole 'Dreadnoughts can/cannot assault after deepstriking' argument...and this may already have been answered...BUT...
Combining the Angel's Fury and Angel's Wrath formations seems to be sort of insane. Or am I reading things wrong here?
What I took away:
Angel's Fury comes in, zooms around erasing things turn 1.
Turn 2 I drop Angel's Wrath nearby 2 Ravens from Fury, no scatter on the Vanguards.
Two assault marine squads follow suit and don't scatter because of the 6" bubble from the VV.
I assault with all three squads that turn.
Not to mention the fire support from the Tacticals and Ravens.
Hulksmash wrote: Drop Pod Assault: Drop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in Deep Strike
Reserves. At the beginning of your first turn, half your Drop Pods (rounding up)
automatically arrive from Reserve. The arrival of remaining Drop Pods is rolled for normally.
I'm now on the side of dreads being able to assault on the drop.
The line that says "and the units embarked upon them" seals the deal for the Dread being able to Assault. Since the Dread was in Deep Strike Reserve, that means the Formation's rule that units arriving from Deep Strike Reserve can assault applies. In other words, Furioso just got amazing.
Frankenberry wrote: I know everyone's doing the whole 'Dreadnoughts can/cannot assault after deepstriking' argument...and this may already have been answered...BUT...
Combining the Angel's Fury and Angel's Wrath formations seems to be sort of insane. Or am I reading things wrong here?
What I took away:
Angel's Fury comes in, zooms around erasing things turn 1.
Turn 2 I drop Angel's Wrath nearby 2 Ravens from Fury, no scatter on the Vanguards.
Two assault marine squads follow suit and don't scatter because of the 6" bubble from the VV.
I assault with all three squads that turn.
Not to mention the fire support from the Tacticals and Ravens.
This can't be right.
Sounds about right. Although instead of assault squads, I'd have Death Company squads .
Hulksmash wrote: Drop Pod Assault: Drop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in Deep Strike
Reserves. At the beginning of your first turn, half your Drop Pods (rounding up)
automatically arrive from Reserve. The arrival of remaining Drop Pods is rolled for normally.
I'm now on the side of dreads being able to assault on the drop.
The line that says "and the units embarked upon them" seals the deal for the Dread being able to Assault. Since the Dread was in Deep Strike Reserve, that means the Formation's rule that units arriving from Deep Strike Reserve can assault applies. In other words, Furioso just got amazing.
Hulksmash wrote: Drop Pod Assault: Drop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in Deep Strike
Reserves. At the beginning of your first turn, half your Drop Pods (rounding up)
automatically arrive from Reserve. The arrival of remaining Drop Pods is rolled for normally.
I'm now on the side of dreads being able to assault on the drop.
Edit- I am a nub and forgot they are open topped somehow.
Frankenberry wrote: I know everyone's doing the whole 'Dreadnoughts can/cannot assault after deepstriking' argument...and this may already have been answered...BUT...
Combining the Angel's Fury and Angel's Wrath formations seems to be sort of insane. Or am I reading things wrong here?
What I took away:
Angel's Fury comes in, zooms around erasing things turn 1.
Turn 2 I drop Angel's Wrath nearby 2 Ravens from Fury, no scatter on the Vanguards.
Two assault marine squads follow suit and don't scatter because of the 6" bubble from the VV.
I assault with all three squads that turn.
Not to mention the fire support from the Tacticals and Ravens.
This can't be right.
I think it can be extremely strong. even op and broken. but we will need to see.
being able to unload a payload of death at basicly 24" on T1 is going to be nuts.
But i think the best to do at that point is to counter deploy by litterally lining your table edge and possibiily splitting up your forces. it makes em choose to go to one side or another and makes it hard to get that T1 charge. T2 is another story though
Frankenberry wrote: I know everyone's doing the whole 'Dreadnoughts can/cannot assault after deepstriking' argument...and this may already have been answered...BUT...
Combining the Angel's Fury and Angel's Wrath formations seems to be sort of insane. Or am I reading things wrong here?
What I took away:
Angel's Fury comes in, zooms around erasing things turn 1.
Turn 2 I drop Angel's Wrath nearby 2 Ravens from Fury, no scatter on the Vanguards.
Two assault marine squads follow suit and don't scatter because of the 6" bubble from the VV.
I assault with all three squads that turn.
Not to mention the fire support from the Tacticals and Ravens.
This can't be right.
As long as the Assault Squads also arrive within 12" of two of the formation's teleport homers, otherwise they don't get to assault that turn.
So is anyone looking at the Priest equipped with Angel's Wing to stop interception by the Tau Ap2 Large blast. Deploy the squad with Priest and drop directly behind them close as possible that way if they try and pie plate it the template will touch his squad.
Frankenberry wrote: I know everyone's doing the whole 'Dreadnoughts can/cannot assault after deepstriking' argument...and this may already have been answered...BUT...
Combining the Angel's Fury and Angel's Wrath formations seems to be sort of insane. Or am I reading things wrong here?
What I took away:
Angel's Fury comes in, zooms around erasing things turn 1.
Turn 2 I drop Angel's Wrath nearby 2 Ravens from Fury, no scatter on the Vanguards.
Two assault marine squads follow suit and don't scatter because of the 6" bubble from the VV.
I assault with all three squads that turn.
Not to mention the fire support from the Tacticals and Ravens.
This can't be right.
As long as the Assault Squads also arrive within 12" of two of the formation's teleport homers, otherwise they don't get to assault that turn.
And if you're within 12" you don't scatter anyway. Angels Fury actually improves Angels Wrath as you potentially have a little more flexibility to try to try to take advantage of meteoric impact.
Again with the first turn roll to come on from reserves. I like this trend for the Blood Angels. It allows them to play a similar reserve style army of the previous codex in 5th while making it workable in 7th. I like it.
I don't see how people are disregarding the fact that drop pods don't have the assault special rule and the dreads within said drop pods have to disembark. The BRB says that you can't assault on the turn you disembark unless it's from an assault vehicle. The rule that is listed on that formation says that units that arrive via deep strike can assault but the dread is not arriving via deep strike, it is arriving via a transport.
Hulksmash wrote: Drop Pod Assault: Drop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in Deep Strike
Reserves. At the beginning of your first turn, half your Drop Pods (rounding up)
automatically arrive from Reserve. The arrival of remaining Drop Pods is rolled for normally.
I'm now on the side of dreads being able to assault on the drop.
The line that says "and the units embarked upon them" seals the deal for the Dread being able to Assault. Since the Dread was in Deep Strike Reserve, that means the Formation's rule that units arriving from Deep Strike Reserve can assault applies. In other words, Furioso just got amazing.
Except that the second sentence says that the Drop Pod arrives from reserves. It doesn't say "the drop pod and all the units within". The drop pod is still NOT an assault vehicle. The BRB rules still take precedence in a situation where there is a question.
I can almost see why people would think a dread can deep strike but it doesn't say that "drop pods have the assault rule". That would obviously seal the deal. Maybe they will FAQ it to clear it up.
Warmonger2757 wrote: I don't see how people are disregarding the fact that drop pods don't have the assault special rule and the dreads within said drop pods have to disembark. The BRB says that you can't assault on the turn you disembark unless it's from an assault vehicle. The rule that is listed on that formation says that units that arrive via deep strike can assault but the dread is not arriving via deep strike, it is arriving via a transport.
Hulksmash wrote: Drop Pod Assault: Drop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in Deep Strike
Reserves. At the beginning of your first turn, half your Drop Pods (rounding up)
automatically arrive from Reserve. The arrival of remaining Drop Pods is rolled for normally.
I'm now on the side of dreads being able to assault on the drop.
The line that says "and the units embarked upon them" seals the deal for the Dread being able to Assault. Since the Dread was in Deep Strike Reserve, that means the Formation's rule that units arriving from Deep Strike Reserve can assault applies. In other words, Furioso just got amazing.
Except that the second sentence says that the Drop Pod arrives from reserves. It doesn't say "the drop pod and all the units within". The drop pod is still NOT an assault vehicle. The BRB rules still take precedence in a situation where there is a question.
I can almost see why people would think a dread can deep strike but it doesn't say that "drop pods have the assault rule". That would obviously seal the deal. Maybe they will FAQ it to clear it up.
Drop pods are still open-topped. Open-topped vehicles are Assault Vehicles.
Drop pods are still open-topped. Open-topped vehicles are Assault Vehicles.
Except that the Drop Pod has a special rule, that makes it a "not-Assault"-Vehicle despite being open topped. Just like, inversely, the Land Raider has a special rule that does make it an assault vehicle, despite not being open topped.
Drop pods are still open-topped. Open-topped vehicles are Assault Vehicles.
Except that the Drop Pod has a special rule, that makes it a "not-Assault"-Vehicle despite being open topped. Just like, inversely, the Land Raider has a special rule that does make it an assault vehicle, despite not being open topped.
That rule that makes it not an assault vehicle is no longer there in the Space Wolves and Blood Angel codexes. It remains only in the Dark Angels and regular Space Marine books of 6th edition.
I'm interested to see what the Archangel warlord trait table has to offer. I'm unimpressed with the Blood Angel codex one as the only trait I like is the one that they yoinked from a previously army wide rule (Descent of Angels).
As it stands, I don't plan on using the codex table for random rolls but instead will just default to double traits from strategic instead with the relic. I f I end up using my assault squads then I'll just take Dante along with the formation since it'll have to be a theme of the army. The codex just doesn't support "standard" drop forces without the extra paid DLC microtransactions.
Warmonger2757 wrote: Oh that I wasn't aware of. Yeah looks like Dreads are assaulting out of drop pods.
I am quickly losing respect for the "improvements" 7th made over 6th.
Anyone wanna play 5th ed? 4th maybe?
Because it costs at least 1020 before the dreads or mandatory hq/troops to assault on turn one you're losing respect for 7th? Curious as to the reasoning you think this is any worse than 1st turn infiltrate assaults or lucius drop pod with blendernoughts.
So wait, Dark Eldar can't assault when they arrive from a webway portal...and don't have the armor to withstand a turn just sitting there in the midst of the enemies' lines....but a walking tank can assault out of a drop pod and wreck face turn one? hmm.
Warmonger2757 wrote: Oh that I wasn't aware of. Yeah looks like Dreads are assaulting out of drop pods.
I am quickly losing respect for the "improvements" 7th made over 6th.
Anyone wanna play 5th ed? 4th maybe?
Because it costs at least 1020 before the dreads or mandatory hq/troops to assault on turn one you're losing respect for 7th? Curious as to the reasoning you think this is any worse than 1st turn infiltrate assaults or lucius drop pod with blendernoughts.
Why wouldn't the tacticals in the formation count towards the mandatory troops if they're a part of the same detachment?
Because a formation is it's own detachment. Meaning that things taken in them do not count toward another detachment, in this case one that requires 2 troops like a the BA Strike Force or Combined Arms.
Warmonger2757 wrote: Oh that I wasn't aware of. Yeah looks like Dreads are assaulting out of drop pods.
I am quickly losing respect for the "improvements" 7th made over 6th.
Anyone wanna play 5th ed? 4th maybe?
Because it costs at least 1020 before the dreads or mandatory hq/troops to assault on turn one you're losing respect for 7th? Curious as to the reasoning you think this is any worse than 1st turn infiltrate assaults or lucius drop pod with blendernoughts.
Just guessing but...
They've systematically removed every assault from reserves and assault from deep strike in the last two years because "Allowing units into assault without being able to respond is unfun"....then they allow people to deep strike into melee again.
Is it overpowered in this case? Hell no, the Storm Raven tax is just too high.
Is it a violation of their vision for 7th edition? It most certainly is.
Today it's 1000+ points of tax. Next week it's 250, and next year it's back on units in every book. They are proving once again that they cannot stick to their design decisions. We've seen it so many times before too, where they try to change the flavor of things to bring stuff in line...then flip-flop back to craziness.
Or an alternative outlook is that they noticed the trend of gunlines wiping their asses with melee-oriented armies for years (since the start of 6th edition) and this is their attempt to balance things out?
Whether or not something like this formation will actually fix the gap between ranged armies and melee armies remains to be seen (I am not a fan of first-turn assaults myself, despite playing predominantly melee armies), but attempting to fix a perceived problem is a justified break-away from original intentions for a design.
I'd argue 3 stormravens arriving turn 1 isn't a tax flyers are pretty strong especially ones that have decent armor and lots of guns like stormravens. Think about it you can drop around 50 marines and 3 stormravens on their side of the board on the first turn and all those marines can assault first turn.
Drop pods are still open-topped. Open-topped vehicles are Assault Vehicles.
Except that the Drop Pod has a special rule, that makes it a "not-Assault"-Vehicle despite being open topped. Just like, inversely, the Land Raider has a special rule that does make it an assault vehicle, despite not being open topped.
That rule that makes it not an assault vehicle is no longer there in the Space Wolves and Blood Angel codexes. It remains only in the Dark Angels and regular Space Marine books of 6th edition.
However, it is in the Core rules: "Deep Strike" In that turn’s Assault phase, however, these units cannot charge. This also applies to units that have disembarked from Transports that arrived by Deep Strike that turn."
Drop pods are still open-topped. Open-topped vehicles are Assault Vehicles.
Except that the Drop Pod has a special rule, that makes it a "not-Assault"-Vehicle despite being open topped. Just like, inversely, the Land Raider has a special rule that does make it an assault vehicle, despite not being open topped.
That rule that makes it not an assault vehicle is no longer there in the Space Wolves and Blood Angel codexes. It remains only in the Dark Angels and regular Space Marine books of 6th edition.
However, it is in the Core rules:
"Deep Strike"
In that turn’s Assault phase, however, these units cannot charge. This also applies to units
that have disembarked from Transports that arrived by Deep Strike that turn."
That is overridden by the Formation's rules. It explicitly says so.
crukks wrote: I'd argue 3 stormravens arriving turn 1 isn't a tax flyers are pretty strong especially ones that have decent armor and lots of guns like stormravens. Think about it you can drop around 50 marines and 3 stormravens on their side of the board on the first turn and all those marines can assault first turn.
Not quite true. The Tacticals in the ravens can't assault on turn 1. They don't have a rule that overrides the no assaulting out of reserves like units arriving from deepstrike do. So you're looking at dropping 20 marines one turn 1, not 50, supported by 3 flyers.
Don't disembark the TAC marines T1, let them stay on the birds while your DC dreads, assault termites and DC jump dudes handle that. T2 hop the marines out and mop up.
Okay, I'm getting a little confused about what can drop and assault on Turn 1 in conjunction with the Angel's Fury formation, and I think other people are too. I mean, the Fleshtearer's Razorwind formation allows for you to start making Reserve rolls Turn 1, but it doesn't specify that you can assault. It's my understanding so far that Angel's Fury is the only exception to the rule that you cannot assault on the turn you Deep Strike from reserves.
Augur Triangulation for Angel's Fury specifies that a unit can assault on the turn it Deep Strikes from reserves if:
1) It is a friendly unit with the Blood Angels faction
2) It arrives within 12" of at least two models in the formation with teleport homes.
So, this brings up the question - what else in the Blood Angels faction can Deep Strike on Turn 1? The Blood Angel faction thing may prevent it being used with the Razorwind formation if that's considered Fleshtearer's faction - though that'd be kinda pedantic on GW's part. It's kind of academic as you'd really only be able to use them in conjunction for really high point level games, by the general look of Razorwind anyway, though. As far as I can think, the only other thing is Drop Pods - right? That said, with separate Drop Pods in FA these days, you can load them with just about anything - HQ, Terminators, ASM, DC.
As long as you make your reserve roll to bring in your Storm Ravens and place them first, if you bring your Drop Pods in within 12" of two of the Storm Ravens, whatever you have inside, you can assault with - Assault Termies, DC, Dreads, whatever.
Is my logic sound here? Am I understanding this correctly?
As long as you make your reserve roll to bring in your Storm Ravens and place them first, if you bring your Drop Pods in within 12" of two of the Storm Ravens, whatever you have inside, you can assault with - Assault Termies, DC, Dreads, whatever.
Is my logic sound here? Am I understanding this correctly?
Correct. Until GW decides to FAQ this, you can have them assaulting out of their drop-pods on turn 1 due to the augur triangulation rule.
Warmonger2757 wrote: Oh that I wasn't aware of. Yeah looks like Dreads are assaulting out of drop pods.
I am quickly losing respect for the "improvements" 7th made over 6th.
Anyone wanna play 5th ed? 4th maybe?
Because it costs at least 1020 before the dreads or mandatory hq/troops to assault on turn one you're losing respect for 7th? Curious as to the reasoning you think this is any worse than 1st turn infiltrate assaults or lucius drop pod with blendernoughts.
Just guessing but...
They've systematically removed every assault from reserves and assault from deep strike in the last two years because "Allowing units into assault without being able to respond is unfun"....then they allow people to deep strike into melee again.
Is it overpowered in this case? Hell no, the Storm Raven tax is just too high.
Is it a violation of their vision for 7th edition? It most certainly is.
Today it's 1000+ points of tax. Next week it's 250, and next year it's back on units in every book. They are proving once again that they cannot stick to their design decisions. We've seen it so many times before too, where they try to change the flavor of things to bring stuff in line...then flip-flop back to craziness.
Exactly this. Which gives me pause for believing all future codex updates will continue to be conservative.
As long as you make your reserve roll to bring in your Storm Ravens and place them first, if you bring your Drop Pods in within 12" of two of the Storm Ravens, whatever you have inside, you can assault with - Assault Termies, DC, Dreads, whatever.
Is my logic sound here? Am I understanding this correctly?
Correct. Until GW decides to FAQ this, you can have them assaulting out of their drop-pods on turn 1 due to the augur triangulation rule.
How are you bringing anything other than the SR formation in on turn 1?
As long as you make your reserve roll to bring in your Storm Ravens and place them first, if you bring your Drop Pods in within 12" of two of the Storm Ravens, whatever you have inside, you can assault with - Assault Termies, DC, Dreads, whatever.
Is my logic sound here? Am I understanding this correctly?
Correct. Until GW decides to FAQ this, you can have them assaulting out of their drop-pods on turn 1 due to the augur triangulation rule.
How are you bringing anything other than the SR formation in on turn 1?
You can bring in another detachment. Something like the Archangel one. For 1850, you can have the Spearhead formation plus:
Archangel formation
terminator libby,
7-man Vanguard Vets all with melta-bombs, 2 power weapons
Hammernator squad
Furioso in drop-pod that can enter turn 1
As long as you make your reserve roll to bring in your Storm Ravens and place them first, if you bring your Drop Pods in within 12" of two of the Storm Ravens, whatever you have inside, you can assault with - Assault Termies, DC, Dreads, whatever.
Is my logic sound here? Am I understanding this correctly?
Correct. Until GW decides to FAQ this, you can have them assaulting out of their drop-pods on turn 1 due to the augur triangulation rule.
How are you bringing anything other than the SR formation in on turn 1?
Drop Pods doing their drop pod assault. Put some Furiosos inside the drop pods. Profit.
House Griffith wrote: Drop Pods doing their drop pod assault. Put some Furiosos inside the drop pods. Profit.
Furiosos, Assault Terminators, DC, VV, ASM - whatever you want, man. If it's in a Drop Pod and is good for assaulting you can profit on this. Doesn't have to be just Furiosos.
BlaxicanX wrote: Or an alternative outlook is that they noticed the trend of gunlines wiping their asses with melee-oriented armies for years (since the start of 6th edition) and this is their attempt to balance things out?
Whether or not something like this formation will actually fix the gap between ranged armies and melee armies remains to be seen (I am not a fan of first-turn assaults myself, despite playing predominantly melee armies), but attempting to fix a perceived problem is a justified break-away from original intentions for a design.
Why would it need to be balanced?
Why would there ever need to be a "melee army" in a science fiction game with guns? lol
If anything, 6th was a step back in the right direction for 40K.
House Griffith wrote: Drop Pods doing their drop pod assault. Put some Furiosos inside the drop pods. Profit.
Furiosos, Assault Terminators, DC, VV, ASM - whatever you want, man. If it's in a Drop Pod and is good for assaulting you can profit on this. Doesn't have to be just Furiosos.
Yeah, but in the case of the Archangel Formation, you are limited to just Sternguards, Vanguards, and Dreadnoughts (Furioso, Standard Issue, or Death Company can all be used here) since you don't have Fast Attack slots to use on a Drop Pod for the Terminators nor can you get ASM. But if you want to run a Baal Strike Force Detachment with the Angel's Fury Formation, you can run all sorts of stuff that can fit in the Drop Pod.
you roll once for the whole formation to come in. it can be rerolled either way.
the VV's get either a lightning claw or power weapon for free on every member!!!!
the stern guard get either a storm bolter or combi weapon free on every member
you roll once for the whole formation to come in. it can be rerolled either way.
the VV's get either a lightning claw or power weapon for free on every member!!!!
the stern guard get either a storm bolter or combi weapon free on every member
Is it just me or is this hilariously OP?
You and I have different thresholds for humor, I guess. This is not funny, this is head shakingly-OP. I will field one of them if it is true, since I would be stupid not to since I love VV(I have exactly zero, this would give me more than enough reason to change that fact) and Sternguards. This would also move a Stormraven from the category of Will Get Eventually to Entering My Credit Card Information As We Speak.
you roll once for the whole formation to come in. it can be rerolled either way.
the VV's get either a lightning claw or power weapon for free on every member!!!!
the stern guard get either a storm bolter or combi weapon free on every member
Is it just me or is this hilariously OP?
You and I have different thresholds for humor, I guess. This is not funny, this is head shakingly-OP. I will field one of them if it is true, since I would be stupid not to since I love VV(I have exactly zero, this would give me more than enough reason to change that fact) and Sternguards. This would also move a Stormraven from the category of Will Get Eventually to Entering My Credit Card Information As We Speak.
Yeah. I mean, did they get Matt Ward back to write this? Is this GWs way of saying sorry to all the Blood Angel players out there who had to suffer through 6th? If so, they're really overdoing it.
you roll once for the whole formation to come in. it can be rerolled either way.
the VV's get either a lightning claw or power weapon for free on every member!!!!
the stern guard get either a storm bolter or combi weapon free on every member
Is it just me or is this hilariously OP?
You and I have different thresholds for humor, I guess. This is not funny, this is head shakingly-OP. I will field one of them if it is true, since I would be stupid not to since I love VV(I have exactly zero, this would give me more than enough reason to change that fact) and Sternguards. This would also move a Stormraven from the category of Will Get Eventually to Entering My Credit Card Information As We Speak.
Yeah. I mean, did they get Matt Ward back to write this? Is this GWs way of saying sorry to all the Blood Angel players out there who had to suffer through 6th? If so, they're really overdoing it.
I think it is their way of saying "Buy all those suboptimal things you never wanted before because they are now your key to victory!".
Although now that I think about it, the sternguard will have to come in the stormraven so either they do skies of fury and risk losing a model or two or deploy using the assault ramp on turn 3. So maybe not as OP as i thought? Still, if the rumor is true, with 10 Sternguard, you'll be getting a 100 points worth of combi-meltas/plasmas for free. if you get 2 maxed out Vanguard Vets, your're getting 300 points of power weapons/lighting claws for free.
HalfBlood wrote: I can believe this. They released the necron formations, relics, and warlord traits.
Picture are up on Faeit212.
The relics are very strong same with warlord traits.
Huh, the relics and traits are really cool! Love the God Shackle, allowing us to once more take Toughness 8 C'tan.
Speculating that Crypteks may no longer be part of the royal courts in the upcoming codex considering how the god shackle is listed as for cryptek only, and that last one is listed as available to either crypteks or overlords.
benjak wrote: Although now that I think about it, the sternguard will have to come in the stormraven so either they do skies of fury and risk losing a model or two or deploy using the assault ramp on turn 3. So maybe not as OP as i thought? Still, if the rumor is true, with 10 Sternguard, you'll be getting a 100 points worth of combi-meltas/plasmas for free. if you get 2 maxed out Vanguard Vets, your're getting 300 points of power weapons/lighting claws for free.
Sternguards can take Drop Pods as a Dedicated Transport. Nothing is stopping them from doing so. The biggest problem here will be scrounging up enough combi-weapons to adequately field them. The VVs getting free Power Weapons or Lightning Claws is going to DRASTICALLY reduce their cost, to the point where they will actually be good to take.
benjak wrote: Although now that I think about it, the sternguard will have to come in the stormraven so either they do skies of fury and risk losing a model or two or deploy using the assault ramp on turn 3. So maybe not as OP as i thought? Still, if the rumor is true, with 10 Sternguard, you'll be getting a 100 points worth of combi-meltas/plasmas for free. if you get 2 maxed out Vanguard Vets, your're getting 300 points of power weapons/lighting claws for free.
Sternguards can take Drop Pods as a Dedicated Transport. Nothing is stopping them from doing so. The biggest problem here will be scrounging up enough combi-weapons to adequately field them. The VVs getting free Power Weapons or Lightning Claws is going to DRASTICALLY reduce their cost, to the point where they will actually be good to take.
I'm assuming that formation special rules will require the sternguard to be on the storm raven when it comes in (similar to the spearhead formation requiring tacs to be on the ravens).
benjak wrote: Although now that I think about it, the sternguard will have to come in the stormraven so either they do skies of fury and risk losing a model or two or deploy using the assault ramp on turn 3. So maybe not as OP as i thought? Still, if the rumor is true, with 10 Sternguard, you'll be getting a 100 points worth of combi-meltas/plasmas for free. if you get 2 maxed out Vanguard Vets, your're getting 300 points of power weapons/lighting claws for free.
Sternguards can take Drop Pods as a Dedicated Transport. Nothing is stopping them from doing so. The biggest problem here will be scrounging up enough combi-weapons to adequately field them. The VVs getting free Power Weapons or Lightning Claws is going to DRASTICALLY reduce their cost, to the point where they will actually be good to take.
I'm assuming that formation special rules will require the sternguard to be on the storm raven when it comes in (similar to the spearhead formation requiring tacs to be on the ravens).
That is certainly possible. Which would kinda suck. Though you will save some points on a Drop Pod if that is the case.
BoomWolf wrote: OK, I see people here writing about the "drop pod and assault on same turn" combo, yet I don't really get it.
Can anyone mention just what formation allows that and HOW does it do (quote of the rules preferable)
Becase of my understanding, the tacticals got the teleport homers-not the stormravens themselves.
So you at the very least have to disembark first.
It's the Angel's Fury Spearhead Force
Special Rules:
Augur Triangulation: If a friendly unit with the Blood Angels Faction arrives from Deep Strike Reserves within 12" of at least two models from this Formation equipped with a teleport homer, then it does not scatter and can charge in the same turn it arrives.
Note that it doesn't say anything about the model(s) with the teleport homers needing to be on the battlefield at the start of the turn. Formation-specific rule overrides original rules for homers.
Area of effect wargear can work inside vehicles as seen under the rules for embarking which state that you measure from the hull when determining range.
BA drop-pods are open-topped and omit the rule that prohibits assaulting on the turn that it deepstrikes like normal codex marine drop-pods. So have a drop-pod or 2 enter on the 1st turn and as long as you're within range of at least 2 teleport homers you can now assault
Here's all the stuff PascalNZ from B&C posted so far about the BA stuff in SoB: Exterminatus:
hey guys just got the new stuff, I'll put up some stuff soon as I can
1. the angels fury spearhead forces as mad as everyone thinks, there are no hidden restrictions on what can come from deep strike reserve. what ever arrives does not scatter and can assault if within 12 inches of two teleport homers [models with them and a model with an effect that is embarked measures the effect from the hull soo good stuff], doesn't have to be a terminator etc etc
there are rules for detachments and formations for the archangels as well as a warlord chart and 3 relics. also rules for the blooded 2nd company and also for flesh tearers
warlord trait for arch angels
1.fearless
2.warlord gets counter attack
3re rolls failed to hits in a challenge
4 warlord and any unit he's in gets obsec
5 rerolls on failed moral or pinning within 12
6 warlord gets preferred enemy
3 relics
1 meltabomb cost sword for terminator sergeants. any roll to has instant death vs monstrous creatures..ap3
6 meltabomb Banner. acts as company banner but gives the unit with it preferred enemy[mmm yummy on thunder hammers]
1 melta bomb psychic hood. user is not affected by perils of the warp.
a couple of fun formations.
archangles sanguine wing:
2 veteran vanguards[must have packs]
1 sternguard
1 storm raven
you roll once for the whole formation to come in. it can be rerolled either way.
the VV's get either a lightning claw or power weapon for free on every member!!!!
the stern guard get either a storm bolter or combi weapon free on every member
stern guard must start in the raven
yum
archangels orbital intervention force:
3 of any type of term squad. they must be held in deep strike reserve, they all arrive on one roll and can run then shoot on the turn they arrive.
Arch angels demi company: get stubborn reroll failed reserve rolls and d6 less scatter for everything in the formation. warlord gets to reroll trait
1 captain[can be carl] or a chaplain must be in term armour
2 furiosos
5 squads in any combination. both types of terms VV's or stern
The Archangels:
get stubborn, d6 less scatter, roll for reserves from turn one, you can reroll warlord trait
1captain[can be Karl]
1chaplain[no need for term armour.. could be an oversight]
4 furiosos dreads
10!!!squads of any combination from the VV's sterns or different term types
Last three formations
Blooded demi company:
If primary reroll warlord trait
everyone gets red thirst.
1 captain or chaplain
1 command squad[if captain is chosen]
3 tacs
1 assault
1dev
1 dread
1furioso dread[only if chaplain is chosen
Strike force mortals:
everyone gets crusader
at the start of any fight sub phase death company models from this formation that do not have rampage rule get +1 attack till the end of the phase if they are in a combat with more enemy models than friendly ones. this doesn't work on models that have made a disordered charge
1 chaplain
3 dc squads
2 dc dreads
1 raven gunship
Dante's avenging host:
1 blooded demi company formation
dante
mephiston
1 libby
1 sang priest
1 sang guard unit
3 ravens
you can reroll all failed reserve rolls for units in this formation with the deep strike special rule. in addition units in this formation scatter 1d6 less.
all non vehicle units in this formation have the obsec special rule
rhavien wrote: I have the book in front of me. Slight correction to the above. The psychic hood wielder ignors shadow of the warp, not perils.
The Sanguine Wing detachment is real. All three squads must be 10 guys though. Holy emperor, this is some massive free points!
I would have fielded 10 Sternguards anyway. Again, the biggest drawback to this Detachment is finding the frickin' combi-weapons to give to the Sternguards. This Formation will run you 800 pts or so, which is not all that bad for what you get in return.
So far I'm looking at Angel's Fury with Terminator Squads Gideon (Assault Squad with Banner), Lorenzo (Space Hulk set-up but with Assault Cannon) and Alphaeus and it all comes out to 2000pts with various upgrades... But with so many different ways to field Elite armies... I can't figure out how to keep going forward in other lists. Too much choice. But not enough Obj Sec to be honest. Fury is the only Obj Sec that doesn't hinder what they do.
BoomWolf wrote: OK, I see people here writing about the "drop pod and assault on same turn" combo, yet I don't really get it.
Can anyone mention just what formation allows that and HOW does it do (quote of the rules preferable)
Becase of my understanding, the tacticals got the teleport homers-not the stormravens themselves.
So you at the very least have to disembark first.
It's the Angel's Fury Spearhead Force
Special Rules:
Augur Triangulation: If a friendly unit with the Blood Angels Faction arrives from Deep Strike Reserves within 12" of at least two models from this Formation equipped with a teleport homer, then it does not scatter and can charge in the same turn it arrives.
Note that it doesn't say anything about the model(s) with the teleport homers needing to be on the battlefield at the start of the turn. Formation-specific rule overrides original rules for homers.
Area of effect wargear can work inside vehicles as seen under the rules for embarking which state that you measure from the hull when determining range.
BA drop-pods are open-topped and omit the rule that prohibits assaulting on the turn that it deepstrikes like normal codex marine drop-pods. So have a drop-pod or 2 enter on the 1st turn and as long as you're within range of at least 2 teleport homers you can now assault
Isn't the ormation itself starting in reserves though due to the fact they are flyers?
ok this will be the flesh tears post!..will get some edits going forwards
Relics... awfull.
maybe the melt bomb costing shiel that can't be put on a terminator that grants a 3+ armour save and lets the user ignore poison
or the 2 melta bomb costing poisoned 2+ bolter.
th 3x meltabomb relic that can be taken by any type of dreadnought[except none can take relics.???] it gives extra armour and any Nid bio plasma can at best glance you.
warlord traits
1 hatred for lord and unit
2 lord gets rampage
3warlord and unit gets hammer of wrath
4all Ba faction within 12 inches of lord get crusader
5 lord and unit get rage
6lord has fnp
benefits
reroll warlord trait
if anything in the detachment rolls 10 or higher on a charge they get the rage special rule[like orcs it's just what you roll not how far you actually go]
while the vv's are alive everyone gets to ignore the penalties for disordered charges
everyone gets red thirst[+1 ini on charge]
lysios relief force.
everyone gets crusader
all non vehicle units in this formation that do not have the deep strike special rule or the jump unit type must be embarked upon a transport vehicle which may not be a drop pod. All units in the formation must be placed in reserve. all units arrive at once on a single reserve roll
Gabriel seth
1 tac 1 vv
1 baal pred
1 pred
1 storm raven
the defenders of cathedrum:
everyone gets counter attack and stubborn
1 terminator squad
1 death company squad
2 tac squads
1 ass squad
1 furioso
Strike force razor wind
put lysios relief force and defenders of cathedral together
you can make reserve rolls from turn one and every non vehicle in the formation has fearless within 12inches of gabriel seth
That's it for Flesh tearers in exterminatus .
the exclusive white dwarf formation is
blood rain strike force
1 death company squad
1 VV 1 assault squad
1furioso
1 raven
All models in the formation must either have jump packs or be embarked on the raven
they all get crusader
anything that charges out of the raven gets fleet and rage that turn
everything must be in reserves and it all comes in on a single reserve roll, which gets a free reroll
when a unit arrives from deep strike reserves it gets counter attack and fearless till the start of your next turn.
That's all she wrote on FT
So, those who have lots of Assault Marines can just take that Flesh Tearers detachment and have lots of FA slots with only 1 Troops slot as tax.
hey guys just got the new stuff, I'll put up some stuff soon as I can
1. the angels fury spearhead forces as mad as everyone thinks, there are no hidden restrictions on what can come from deep strike reserve. what ever arrives does not scatter and can assault if within 12 inches of two teleport homers [models with them and a model with an effect that is embarked measures the effect from the hull soo good stuff], doesn't have to be a terminator etc etc
there are rules for detachments and formations for the archangels as well as a warlord chart and 3 relics. also rules for the blooded 2nd company and also for flesh tearers
warlord trait for arch angels
1.fearless
2.warlord gets counter attack
3re rolls failed to hits in a challenge
4 warlord and any unit he's in gets obsec
5 rerolls on failed moral or pinning within 12
6 warlord gets preferred enemy
3 relics
1 meltabomb cost sword for terminator sergeants. any roll to has instant death vs monstrous creatures..ap3
6 meltabomb Banner. acts as company banner but gives the unit with it preferred enemy[mmm yummy on thunder hammers]
1 melta bomb psychic hood. user is not affected by perils of the warp.
a couple of fun formations.
archangles sanguine wing:
2 veteran vanguards[must have packs]
1 sternguard
1 storm raven
you roll once for the whole formation to come in. it can be rerolled either way.
the VV's get either a lightning claw or power weapon for free on every member!!!!
the stern guard get either a storm bolter or combi weapon free on every member
stern guard must start in the raven
yum
archangels orbital intervention force:
3 of any type of term squad. they must be held in deep strike reserve, they all arrive on one roll and can run then shoot on the turn they arrive.
Arch angels demi company: get stubborn reroll failed reserve rolls and d6 less scatter for everything in the formation. warlord gets to reroll trait
1 captain[can be carl] or a chaplain must be in term armour
2 furiosos
5 squads in any combination. both types of terms VV's or stern
The Archangels:
get stubborn, d6 less scatter, roll for reserves from turn one, you can reroll warlord trait
1captain[can be Karl]
1chaplain[no need for term armour.. could be an oversight]
4 furiosos dreads
10!!!squads of any combination from the VV's sterns or different term types
Last three formations
Blooded demi company:
If primary reroll warlord trait
everyone gets red thirst.
1 captain or chaplain
1 command squad[if captain is chosen]
3 tacs
1 assault
1dev
1 dread
1furioso dread[only if chaplain is chosen
Strike force mortals:
everyone gets crusader
at the start of any fight sub phase death company models from this formation that do not have rampage rule get +1 attack till the end of the phase if they are in a combat with more enemy models than friendly ones. this doesn't work on models that have made a disordered charge
1 chaplain
3 dc squads
2 dc dreads
1 raven gunship
Dante's avenging host:
1 blooded demi company formation
dante
mephiston
1 libby
1 sang priest
1 sang guard unit
3 ravens
you can reroll all failed reserve rolls for units in this formation with the deep strike special rule. in addition units in this formation scatter 1d6 less.
all non vehicle units in this formation have the obsec special rule
So, I was just thinking, the Archangel Orbital Intervention force coupled with Angels Fury...could be wrong but using both of those formations together seems to confer a shooting phase and a run, and then assault phase to those terminators. Am I right in assuming this?
These formations look pretty baller, I wouldn't mind seeing Marine armies actually using Marines again, and gives some ready made variations for Blood Angels players that were previously better done by other coloured Space Marines.
That being said, I'm still sitting here with my Imperial Guard waiting for some love, anything really.
Frankenberry wrote: So, I was just thinking, the Archangel Orbital Intervention force coupled with Angels Fury...could be wrong but using both of those formations together seems to confer a shooting phase and a run, and then assault phase to those terminators. Am I right in assuming this?
The formation doesn't give you permission to charge after running though.
HalfBlood wrote: I can believe this. They released the necron formations, relics, and warlord traits.
Picture are up on Faeit212.
The relics are very strong same with warlord traits.
Huh, the relics and traits are really cool! Love the God Shackle, allowing us to once more take Toughness 8 C'tan.
Speculating that Crypteks may no longer be part of the royal courts in the upcoming codex considering how the god shackle is listed as for cryptek only, and that last one is listed as available to either crypteks or overlords.
I'm going guess Crypteks go "No Force Org Slot" / "One may be taken per HQ choice", ala Ork Meks.
Frankenberry wrote: So, I was just thinking, the Archangel Orbital Intervention force coupled with Angels Fury...could be wrong but using both of those formations together seems to confer a shooting phase and a run, and then assault phase to those terminators. Am I right in assuming this?
The formation doesn't give you permission to charge after running though.
So, don't run with them. The important thing is that you're dropping 3 Terminator Squads on Turn 1. And if you can get them within 12" of two Storm Ravens when you do, they can still assault. Looks like Angel's Fury can combo to do either T1 Drop Pod assault or T1 Terminator assault. Just because I'm cheap and don't have the Drop Pods, I'm excited by this prospect to get my Terminators out again.
MajorStoffer wrote: These formations look pretty baller, I wouldn't mind seeing Marine armies actually using Marines again, and gives some ready made variations for Blood Angels players that were previously better done by other coloured Space Marines.
That being said, I'm still sitting here with my Imperial Guard waiting for some love, anything really.
How do you think the wife and I feel? We just bought 2000pts worth of Sisters of Battle. :-p Everyone else has awesome formations to worry about... and I wish I had a physical book, even though the very same campaign books are filled with Sisters art and fluff. :-p
Wish we could just get the Sisters APOC formations made into official, normal 40k ones.
BoomWolf wrote: OK, I see people here writing about the "drop pod and assault on same turn" combo, yet I don't really get it.
Can anyone mention just what formation allows that and HOW does it do (quote of the rules preferable)
Becase of my understanding, the tacticals got the teleport homers-not the stormravens themselves.
So you at the very least have to disembark first.
It's the Angel's Fury Spearhead Force
Special Rules:
Augur Triangulation: If a friendly unit with the Blood Angels Faction arrives from Deep Strike Reserves within 12" of at least two models from this Formation equipped with a teleport homer, then it does not scatter and can charge in the same turn it arrives.
Note that it doesn't say anything about the model(s) with the teleport homers needing to be on the battlefield at the start of the turn. Formation-specific rule overrides original rules for homers.
Area of effect wargear can work inside vehicles as seen under the rules for embarking which state that you measure from the hull when determining range.
BA drop-pods are open-topped and omit the rule that prohibits assaulting on the turn that it deepstrikes like normal codex marine drop-pods. So have a drop-pod or 2 enter on the 1st turn and as long as you're within range of at least 2 teleport homers you can now assault
Isn't the ormation itself starting in reserves though due to the fact they are flyers?
Here are all the formation rules:
Special Rules:
Augur Triangulation: If a friendly unit with the Blood Angels Faction arrives from Deep Strike Reserves within 12" of at least two model(s) from this Formation equipped with a teleport homer, then it does not scatter and can charge in the same turn it arrives.
Objective Secured: All Troops units from this Formation have the Objective Secured special rule.
Spearhead Strike Force: When making Reserve Rolls, make a single roll for the entire Formation, which you may choose to re-roll. If successful, all units arrive from this Formation. You can make a Reserve Roll for this formation from the start of Turn 1.
Since all the units are coming from reserve have the Ravens come in first, if they make their reserve roll, have the drop-pod(s) come in to do their assaulting from deepstrike shenanigans (Augur traingulation). If you fail your reserve roll for the ravens, have the drop-pod(s) come in where they can hide from enemy fire to prevent an auto-loss form having no units on the table at the end of game turn 1
Interesting. It says you have to be within 12" of a model with a Teleport Homer. Not that you have to be within the area of effect of their Teleport Homer
Are you allowed to measure to the hull of a vehicle to determine if you are within 12" of an occupant?
Frankenberry wrote: So, I was just thinking, the Archangel Orbital Intervention force coupled with Angels Fury...could be wrong but using both of those formations together seems to confer a shooting phase and a run, and then assault phase to those terminators. Am I right in assuming this?
The formation doesn't give you permission to charge after running though.
So, don't run with them. The important thing is that you're dropping 3 Terminator Squads on Turn 1. And if you can get them within 12" of two Storm Ravens when you do, they can still assault. Looks like Angel's Fury can combo to do either T1 Drop Pod assault or T1 Terminator assault. Just because I'm cheap and don't have the Drop Pods, I'm excited by this prospect to get my Terminators out again.
I'm with you. I think this is an attempt to make Terminators more competitive and I like it. I've got a bunch of them, converted ones with Forge World shoulderpads, Close Combat ones, Space Hulk Ones...so I too am happy to get them out to play again. The Land Raider Crusader gets to make a viable comeback too, as a delivery device.
pantheralegionnaire wrote: I'm with you. I think this is an attempt to make Terminators more competitive and I like it. I've got a bunch of them, converted ones with Forge World shoulderpads, Close Combat ones, Space Hulk Ones...so I too am happy to get them out to play again. The Land Raider Crusader gets to make a viable comeback too, as a delivery device.
Considering the Terminators are held in Deep Strike reserve and you can no longer air drop Land Raiders in this codex, I think you're gonna have to step away from the Crusader.
Frankenberry wrote: So, I was just thinking, the Archangel Orbital Intervention force coupled with Angels Fury...could be wrong but using both of those formations together seems to confer a shooting phase and a run, and then assault phase to those terminators. Am I right in assuming this?
The formation doesn't give you permission to charge after running though.
So, don't run with them. The important thing is that you're dropping 3 Terminator Squads on Turn 1. And if you can get them within 12" of two Storm Ravens when you do, they can still assault. Looks like Angel's Fury can combo to do either T1 Drop Pod assault or T1 Terminator assault. Just because I'm cheap and don't have the Drop Pods, I'm excited by this prospect to get my Terminators out again.
I'm with you. I think this is an attempt to make Terminators more competitive and I like it. I've got a bunch of them, converted ones with Forge World shoulderpads, Close Combat ones, Space Hulk Ones...so I too am happy to get them out to play again. The Land Raider Crusader gets to make a viable comeback too, as a delivery device.
I built a list around it but it's not that impressive... Two standard Terminator squads, one with Assault Cannon and the other with Flamer, one Assault squad with 2 Hammers and and a Banner (fluff reasons), and each tacitcal squad had a lascannon and a plasma gun for Combat Squad Obj Sec while the Sergeant was plain and stayed embarked. Each Stormraven had Bolter doors too. But that's... 30 models on the table, 31 including a 'Kinda-Karlean' with a Power Axe and digi-weapon for 2000pts. It wasn't a very pretty list and I really can't even guess to how well it would do in game... That fury takes up half the points easily...
Frankenberry wrote: So, I was just thinking, the Archangel Orbital Intervention force coupled with Angels Fury...could be wrong but using both of those formations together seems to confer a shooting phase and a run, and then assault phase to those terminators. Am I right in assuming this?
The formation doesn't give you permission to charge after running though.
I only ask because one formation gives the ability to charge the turn they deepstrike, while the other formation gives shooting and running capabilities the turn they arrive. Wasn't sure if they still adhere to the no-run and charge thing.
I was thinking of getting the new WD for the extra Shield of Baal stuff in there... then I realised that GW has already released two massively expensive hardbacks and they're still trying to do DLC in WD.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I was thinking of getting the new WD for the extra Shield of Baal stuff in there... then I realised that GW has already released two massively expensive hardbacks and they're still trying to do DLC in WD.
No. Just no.
There are much scummier ways for GW to print money and attempt to force you to buy things than releasing extra, optional, supplemental tidbits alongside major releases at an affordable cost. Your cynicism is stifling.
Mine is stifling? I never used the word "forced", as no one's being forced to buy anything.
My point is that the formations should have been in the book, not in a separate publication. We've already got 3 books for rules and formations, why add two more months and two more books onto that?
H.B.M.C. wrote: Mine is stifling? I never used the word "forced", as no one's being forced to buy anything.
My point is that the formations should have been in the book, not in a separate publication. We've already got 3 books for rules and formations, why add two more months and two more books onto that?
This has been my biggest hang up. The two? formations that are in the WD absolutely should have been in the Codex. Especially the Angel's Wrath Intervention Force, since it is a very good way to get a bunch of Jump Infantry on the board. And since the Flesh Tearers seem to be the Blood Angels' chief sidekicks, the Flesh Tearer's Detachment in there would have been nice as well. Now I feel like in order to have all the options, I have to buy a $50 codex, a $5 White Dwarf, and a $66 campaign supplement that I really only want two formations from.
Redemption wrote: Two White Dwarfs actually, there was another Flesh Tearers formation in the previous White Dwarf as well (for a total of 2 FT and 2 BA formations).
H.B.M.C. wrote: I was thinking of getting the new WD for the extra Shield of Baal stuff in there... then I realised that GW has already released two massively expensive hardbacks and they're still trying to do DLC in WD.
No. Just no.
There are much scummier ways for GW to print money and attempt to force you to buy things than releasing extra, optional, supplemental tidbits alongside major releases at an affordable cost. Your cynicism is stifling.
Wd47 is an awesome issue. It has 2 minigames, City of Death with free tactical objective cards, and a whole bunch of Blood Angles formations. I'm as happy as anyone to complain about weekly WD that is just a $5 ad flyer, but this issue does not fall into that category.
BlackTalos wrote: I'll just plug this one here from the book, found on FaceBook:
(Had it on the Sisters Thread for a while.
Spoiler:
Damn it, yet more awesome Sisters artwork!
It's getting far too difficult to resist this book!
Pre-ordered it Friday 7pm, just to realise they had Softcovers. Oh well, it shall be a nice shelf-ornament =P
Have the first Shield of Baal Hardback too, so at least they're matched...
Had to get the first book soft cover - lovely images and wonderful Sororitas fluff stuff - but the quality of the actual softback is quite poor for the very small price differential.
just to cover a few things, so only 2 Blood angels detachments, flesh tearers and the archangels one already seen. So with the necron detachment, thats only 3 "supplements' out the 4 they mention on the GW page, no detachment/relics for 2nd company
Flesh Tearers Detachment-
Mandatory-
1 HQ 1 Troop
1 Fast Attack
Optional-
1 hq 3 troops
3 elites
5 FA 3 HS 1 Fort
1 Lord of war
Laeth wrote: Are there any formations with death company squads or sanguinary guard that don't require tactical squad or vanguard veterans?
Seconding this question with my fingers crossed!
Formation- strike force mortalis
1 chaplain,
3 DC squads
2 DC dreadnoughts
1 Storm Raven
Rules- Crusader, at the start of the subphase models that do not have the rampage special rule get +1 A if they are outnumbered, lasts till the end of the phase, no benefit if you made a disordered charge for that subphase
no restrictions
Automatically Appended Next Post: Archangels WL traits-
1- WL has fearless
2-counter attack for WL and unit
3- WL rerolls to hits in challenges
4-WL and his unit have objective secured
5-choose to reroll failed morale and pinning tests for your warlord and friendly units wihtin 12 inches
6- WL has preferred enemy
Automatically Appended Next Post: Relics of Archangels-
1- Banner of archangel host- Cost of TH one termy squad can carry this, can reroll failed morale checks if ur within 12 inches, the unit gains preferred enemy
2- archangels edge -
-replace power sword, user Ap3, melee giant killer
giant killer = to wounds of 6 are instant death against monstrous creatures
3- executioners hood- librarian only, unaffected by shadow of the warp
Automatically Appended Next Post: only formation with Sanguinary Guard-
Dante's Avenging Host
-Commander Dante
-Mephiston
-1 librarian
-1 sang priest
-1 unit of sang guard
-Blooded Demi-company formation
-3 storm ravens
Rules- storm of angels- reroll reserves for units with DS, DSd6 less than normal,
-all non-vehicle units in this formation have objective secured
Automatically Appended Next Post: Flesh Tearers Detachment Rules-
-can reroll WL traits from FT warlord table
-each time a unit from this detachment charges, if the charge distance is 10 or more, before modifiers the unit gains rage, you don't have to move the full distance to gain the effect just if you rolled 10 or more
Automatically Appended Next Post: Flesh Tearer WL traits-
1- WL and unit has hatred
2- WL has rampage
3-warlord and unit has Hammer of wrath
4-WL and units with 12" have crusader
5-WL and unit have rage
6-WL has FnP
Automatically Appended Next Post: FT - Relics-
Bones of Baelsor - cost of a power weapon
- for dreadnoughts only, crew stunned counts as crew shaken instead, penetrating hits from bio plasma, bio plasmic cannons or venom cannons on this dread are treated as glancing hits instead.................
slayers wrath- cost of a combi-weapon
-replaces boltgun/boltpistol
-24 inches, S1, ap5, rapid fire, master crafted, poison 2+
Shield of cretacia
-cannot be taken by carriers of termy armor, 3+ armor save, attacks against bearer gain no benefit from poison special rule
Automatically Appended Next Post: Flesh Tearer Vanguard Strike Force-
-while the VV unit is alive, all units ignore disordered charges and have stubborn
-red thirst, so add 1 to initiative on the charge
Automatically Appended Next Post: Flesh Tearer- lysios relief force
-gabriel seth
-tac squad
-VV squad
-Baal pred
-predator
-SR gunship
-no restrictions
-crusader
-all non vehicles that don't have DS or jump packs must be embarked but not on a Drop pod, must be placed in reserve, single roll for reserves
Automatically Appended Next Post: Flesh Tearer- defenders of the cathedrum
-1 termy squad
-1 DC squad
-2 tac squads
-1 AS -1 furioso dread
no restrictions-
-counterattack and stubborn
Automatically Appended Next Post: Last Flesh Tearer Formation- Strike force razor wind
-lysios relief force
-the defenders of the cathedrum
-units from these formations roll for reserves turn 1, everyone 12 inches from seth is fearless
Automatically Appended Next Post: Archangels detachment- has been shown before the one with all the elites and restrictions
Formation- Archangels orbital intervention force
- 3 termy squads of any combination
-no restrictions
- units have to be in reserve, 1 reserve roll, can run and shoot when they arrive
Automatically Appended Next Post: Formation- Archangels Sanguine wing-
2 VV veterans,
1 Sternguard
1 storm raven
-rules have been stated before and are correct
Formation - Archangels Demi Company
- captain (must be in termy armor)
-2 furioso dreads
-5 squads in any combinations of terminators squads, assault termies, sternguard, or VV
-stubborn, reroll failed reserves, scatter d6 less than normal, if formation is chosen as primary detachment you canrell ur archangel warlord trait
Automatically Appended Next Post: Formation - the archangels-
-1 captain
-1 chaplain
-4 Furioso dreads
-10 squads of any combination of terminators, assault terminators, sternguard or VV
-stubborn, reroll reserves, scatter d6 less, roll for reserves turn 1, can reroll warlord trait
Automatically Appended Next Post: Formation- blooded demi-company
-1 captain/chaplain
-1 command squad (only if captain taken)
-3 tacs
-1 assualt squad
-1 dev squad
-1 dread
-1 furioso dread (only if chaplain taken)
-reroll WL trait,
-red thirst so +1 to initiative
Automatically Appended Next Post: Pretty sure thats it, srry for the poor format and jumping around at the beginning
Automatically Appended Next Post: honestly kinda disappointed don't really like much besides the Sanguine wing formation, the necrons got better relics and WL traits imo, and honestly kinda peeved that they said right on the webpage the 2nd company would get stuff too, but didn't
Well technically the Blooded is the 2nd company but it seems that formation doesn't really give you anything the Baal Strikeforce detachment doesn't give you.
BeeCee wrote: Well technically the Blooded is the 2nd company but it seems that formation doesn't really give you anything the Baal Strikeforce detachment doesn't give you.
true, just sounded like they would also get WL traits and relics
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Laeth wrote: Can the ArchAngels Demi Company take Captain Karlaen as it's Captain in Terminator armor?
