Using the Inquisitor with Servo Skulls prevents him from taking an additional warlord trait for you, right? My copy of C:IA still hasn't come in yet and I forget if that Warlord bit is a trait of his detachment or of the model itself.
Anpu-adom wrote: Using the Inquisitor with Servo Skulls prevents him from taking an additional warlord trait for you, right? My copy of C:IA still hasn't come in yet and I forget if that Warlord bit is a trait of his detachment or of the model itself.
That's a grey area. Technically, both Inquisitors from C:IA and C:I are part of the 'Inquisition' faction. Because of this, they can both be taken as a part of any Inquisitorial detachment from either book. It's probably not RAI, though.
Anpu-adom wrote: Using the Inquisitor with Servo Skulls prevents him from taking an additional warlord trait for you, right? My copy of C:IA still hasn't come in yet and I forget if that Warlord bit is a trait of his detachment or of the model itself.
that rule is part of the detachment and formation. not the model itself
Anpu-adom wrote: Using the Inquisitor with Servo Skulls prevents him from taking an additional warlord trait for you, right? My copy of C:IA still hasn't come in yet and I forget if that Warlord bit is a trait of his detachment or of the model itself.
that rule is part of the detachment and formation. not the model itself
Right then, so no matter which source he takes the inquisitor, you won't get the extra warlord trait since he is taking the Inquisitor in the Castellan and not the Inquisitional whatever detachment. I was hoping that would be different, and we could increase the odds of Voldrak getting Infiltrate with for the Command Squad. No dice.
Waaaghpower wrote: Aaugh. This isn't precisely on top, but I can't stand events that try to "Fix" 40k by putting arbitrary limitations on things that just end up breaking the rules as much as they fix them.
I suppose my biggest problem with most of the "balancing" rules is that they screw over Imperial players trying to make use of weaker forces, but just make Eldar and Tau stronger.
Waaaghpower wrote: Aaugh. This isn't precisely on top, but I can't stand events that try to "Fix" 40k by putting arbitrary limitations on things that just end up breaking the rules as much as they fix them.
I suppose my biggest problem with most of the "balancing" rules is that they screw over Imperial players trying to make use of weaker forces, but just make Eldar and Tau stronger.
Imperial players seem to be placing very well.
By "Imperial Players" I meant "People who aren't playing maxed-out blue tide, Iron Hands or Thunderwolf deathstars, and Librarius Conclaves. Outside of the wolves, those are all the same codex, and they're all the very best stuff that Imperium forces have to offer.
So, Space Marines aren't made any weaker, because other armies have very little to offer. I *guess* you could buy some cheap warp charges or a few Inquisitors to round off an army, but it's not needed by any means, so the losses are minimal - it's not a nerf.
For every other Imperial army, though (read: The weak ones), the rule is a pointless nerf that actually hits hard. If you want to play Mechanicum, you're already bumping up on your detachment limit just by taking your whole army. And Emperor Help you if you want to play Sisters...
I do quite well with sisters as my main force. Most armies are good if you know how to use the movement phase to mitigate your other weaknesses.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I do quite well with sisters as my main force. Most armies are good if you know how to use the movement phase to mitigate your other weaknesses.
PanzerLeader wrote: I do quite well with sisters as my main force. Most armies are good if you know how to use the movement phase to mitigate your other weaknesses.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I do quite well with sisters as my main force. Most armies are good if you know how to use the movement phase to mitigate your other weaknesses.
I hate this argument. If you're better your opponent, you would just win that much harder one of the OP armies. I used to subscribe to this philosophy as I had no trouble beating my friends with a Sisters list, but playing a few tournament games against the newer codexes . I believe there was a game where an eldar player seized the initiaive and shot 33% of my army off the table before I got to even do anything. Sure, better positioning (and/or knowing I'd be going second ahead of time) would have mitigated this, but it doesn't make his jetbikes massively undercosted. Codexes that can just spam a couple of their better units and wind up with a reasonably flexible list benefit immensely when their competition is hampered by arbitrary restrictions. Imagine an event that doesn't allow allies or FW and you have to play Sisters against a list with some flyers. Sure, you can get lucky (like I did against my friends where I brought down a flyer with two krak grenades), but you don't really have good AA options without allies.
Also, some of our best options, like priests don't do that much for us without allies. We can take DCAs and Crusaders, but have no assault vehicles for them to be in.
PanzerLeader wrote: I do quite well with sisters as my main force. Most armies are good if you know how to use the movement phase to mitigate your other weaknesses.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I do quite well with sisters as my main force. Most armies are good if you know how to use the movement phase to mitigate your other weaknesses.
I hate this argument. If you're better your opponent, you would just win that much harder one of the OP armies. I used to subscribe to this philosophy as I had no trouble beating my friends with a Sisters list, but playing a few tournament games against the newer codexes . I believe there was a game where an eldar player seized the initiaive and shot 33% of my army off the table before I got to even do anything. Sure, better positioning (and/or knowing I'd be going second ahead of time) would have mitigated this, but it doesn't make his jetbikes massively undercosted. Codexes that can just spam a couple of their better units and wind up with a reasonably flexible list benefit immensely when their competition is hampered by arbitrary restrictions. Imagine an event that doesn't allow allies or FW and you have to play Sisters against a list with some flyers. Sure, you can get lucky (like I did against my friends where I brought down a flyer with two krak grenades), but you don't really have good AA options without allies.
Also, some of our best options, like priests don't do that much for us without allies. We can take DCAs and Crusaders, but have no assault vehicles for them to be in.
I'll type a longer reply tomorrow, but that's not the argument I'm trying to make. There is a lot that can be done within the movement phase itself to offset some of those disadvantages in terms of unit positioning and army composition. Last LVO I went 4-2 overall and 3-1 against Eldar specifically with a Sisters CAD + artillery company list. If the other Eldar game had ended on 5 or 6 I would have won it as well but I just ran out of units to throw into the last Big Guns objective (also the game where Celestine died twice after attempting a total of two saves *facepalm)
PanzerLeader wrote: I do quite well with sisters as my main force. Most armies are good if you know how to use the movement phase to mitigate your other weaknesses.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I do quite well with sisters as my main force. Most armies are good if you know how to use the movement phase to mitigate your other weaknesses.
I hate this argument. If you're better your opponent, you would just win that much harder one of the OP armies. I used to subscribe to this philosophy as I had no trouble beating my friends with a Sisters list, but playing a few tournament games against the newer codexes . I believe there was a game where an eldar player seized the initiaive and shot 33% of my army off the table before I got to even do anything. Sure, better positioning (and/or knowing I'd be going second ahead of time) would have mitigated this, but it doesn't make his jetbikes massively undercosted. Codexes that can just spam a couple of their better units and wind up with a reasonably flexible list benefit immensely when their competition is hampered by arbitrary restrictions. Imagine an event that doesn't allow allies or FW and you have to play Sisters against a list with some flyers. Sure, you can get lucky (like I did against my friends where I brought down a flyer with two krak grenades), but you don't really have good AA options without allies.
Also, some of our best options, like priests don't do that much for us without allies. We can take DCAs and Crusaders, but have no assault vehicles for them to be in.
I'll type a longer reply tomorrow, but that's not the argument I'm trying to make. There is a lot that can be done within the movement phase itself to offset some of those disadvantages in terms of unit positioning and army composition. Last LVO I went 4-2 overall and 3-1 against Eldar specifically with a Sisters CAD + artillery company list. If the other Eldar game had ended on 5 or 6 I would have won it as well but I just ran out of units to throw into the last Big Guns objective (also the game where Celestine died twice after attempting a total of two saves *facepalm)
I mean, terrain also matters (that one game vs. eldar had no LoS blocking terrain, just some cover that doesn't do much against AP4 spam, but jetbikes are also more mobile. I also imagine artillery comes with barrage units that can abuse/deal with LoS blocking terrain and counter eldar mobility, but that's not a SoB unit. Sisters are squishy, generally have worse mobility than top tier armies. Some armies have to pay a lot for the combination of mobility and long-range firepower (or only get one or the other)... and some don't.
I'm with the Forge the Narrative crew in my belief that 40k can be made more competitive for more armies with good choice of points level and mission selection.
This is why I'm so excited that ITC is opening up the mission catalogue to include missions from Nova, Adepticon, and my semi-local Renegade Open.
I just wish that a lower points level would be accepted...
To me, Sisters are more competitive at 1500 than 1850. Our bargain units (minimum BSS and 4 special weapon Dominions) are better deals than space marines at those points. We have more hard counters at that points level, but then again so does every other army.
Page 65
– Sororitas Command Squad, Act of Faith
Change this to read:
‘
Endless Crusade:
One use only. This Act of Faith
can be used in your Movement phase. If successful, all
models in the unit gain the Fleet, Crusader and Move
Through Cover special rules until the end of the turn.’
FAQs Q:
Imperial Agents
seems to replace existing material but
Games Workshop has indicated that players can use either
the new or older material. As
Imperial Agents
lacks certain
things present in older material, such as Servo Skulls, which do
we use?
A: If you have bought and own the existing and still
currently available digital
Codex: Adepta Sororitas
and
Codex: Inquisition
, you can use those over the rules
presented in
Imperial Agents
if you wish.
®
WARHAMMER 40,000 CODEX:
IMPERIAL AGENTS
Official Update for 7th Edition, Version 1.1
It was pretty cut and clear in Fall of Cadia that either book could be used, but it's good that they came forward and made an official statement.
There is no reason now not to use C:IA sister squads given that their AoF ruling is just superior for lasting until the end of the turn.
Now.. if they could rule out that the Apocalypse formations we have access to are actually usable in a standard game, I would be happy.
The Angelic Host formation is not game breaking by any means and being able to re-roll both Celestine and the Geminae's invulnerable saves would be fun.
Voldrak wrote: Now.. if they could rule out that the Apocalypse formations we have access to are actually usable in a standard game, I would be happy.
The Angelic Host formation is not game breaking by any means and being able to re-roll both Celestine and the Geminae's invulnerable saves would be fun.
Waaaghpower wrote: Aaugh. This isn't precisely on top, but I can't stand events that try to "Fix" 40k by putting arbitrary limitations on things that just end up breaking the rules as much as they fix them.
I suppose my biggest problem with most of the "balancing" rules is that they screw over Imperial players trying to make use of weaker forces, but just make Eldar and Tau stronger.
Imperial players seem to be placing very well.
By "Imperial Players" I meant "People who aren't playing maxed-out blue tide, Iron Hands or Thunderwolf deathstars, and Librarius Conclaves. Outside of the wolves, those are all the same codex, and they're all the very best stuff that Imperium forces have to offer.
So, Space Marines aren't made any weaker, because other armies have very little to offer. I *guess* you could buy some cheap warp charges or a few Inquisitors to round off an army, but it's not needed by any means, so the losses are minimal - it's not a nerf.
For every other Imperial army, though (read: The weak ones), the rule is a pointless nerf that actually hits hard. If you want to play Mechanicum, you're already bumping up on your detachment limit just by taking your whole army. And Emperor Help you if you want to play Sisters...
I play pure sisters all the time. with one detachment. A CAD. Lol.
I don't get what you're saying to be honest. Battle Companies which anyone can take from any Chapter are good. White Scars of course being the broken one. But thats three Detachments.
I play a ton o forces so I take a bit more global perspective on this. i am not really seeing the "distress" of Imperial armies based on formation limits. If you cannot make a viable army with three detachments, I would be very surprised indeed.
PanzerLeader wrote: I do quite well with sisters as my main force. Most armies are good if you know how to use the movement phase to mitigate your other weaknesses.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I do quite well with sisters as my main force. Most armies are good if you know how to use the movement phase to mitigate your other weaknesses.
I hate this argument. If you're better your opponent, you would just win that much harder one of the OP armies. I used to subscribe to this philosophy as I had no trouble beating my friends with a Sisters list, but playing a few tournament games against the newer codexes . I believe there was a game where an eldar player seized the initiaive and shot 33% of my army off the table before I got to even do anything. Sure, better positioning (and/or knowing I'd be going second ahead of time) would have mitigated this, but it doesn't make his jetbikes massively undercosted. Codexes that can just spam a couple of their better units and wind up with a reasonably flexible list benefit immensely when their competition is hampered by arbitrary restrictions. Imagine an event that doesn't allow allies or FW and you have to play Sisters against a list with some flyers. Sure, you can get lucky (like I did against my friends where I brought down a flyer with two krak grenades), but you don't really have good AA options without allies.
Also, some of our best options, like priests don't do that much for us without allies. We can take DCAs and Crusaders, but have no assault vehicles for them to be in.
Your frustration is understandable when it comes to jetbikes but they are sort of the "issue" for every force, which makes this NOT a Sisters of Battle issue but an Eldar issue if you see what I mean.
and Seizing is just.... I got seized on FOUR times in the Major this weekend and only went first one time. ONE. Lol. Seizing is not my favorite mechanic in the whole world.
Voldrak wrote: Now.. if they could rule out that the Apocalypse formations we have access to are actually usable in a standard game, I would be happy.
The Angelic Host formation is not game breaking by any means and being able to re-roll both Celestine and the Geminae's invulnerable saves would be fun.
They specifically ruled against it.
Aye I know. It makes no sense to me as to why they would do so especially when Chaos has a formation that allows them to field 3 Lord of Skulls in a non-apocalypse game. If anything was ever meant for apocalypse, that would be the one.
That is a remnant of our codex that needs to be faq'ed the other way, but it's pure wishful thinking on my part at this point.
The actual issue is power creep. I bring up Jetbikes because they were the first time I really had no answer other than rethinking my army completely. The codices they put out before eldar were actually pretty balanced and made me pretty happy with 40K.
This is a Sisters issue because we don't get as many rule updates as other armies. If we get no new formations or units and everyone just keeps getting stronger, the situation goes from being an interesting challenge to being unteneble. I'm back because the Cadia book is interesting, but everything "we" got was something that Imperial armies got.
Celestine and Geminae - 200 Ministorum Priest with Font of Fury - 35 (with Rets) 5 BSS with Melta/Flamer in Immo - 135 5 BSS with Melta/Flamer in Rhino - 115 5 BSS with Melta/Flamer in Rhino - 115 5 BSS with Melta/Flamer in Rhino - 115 5 Doms with 4 Melta in Repressor - 180 5 Doms with 4 Melta in Repressor - 180 Exorcist - 125 Exorcist - 125 5 Rets with 4 Heavy Flamers in Repressor - 175
1500
The return of the Easy Bake Oven!
(Reminder: The Font of Fury (10pts) – Once per game, the bearer can use this instead of another ranged weapon. Range: 8″, S3, AP-, Assault 1, Large Blast, Poison 4+, One Use Only, Bane of Evil: becomes Poison 2+ against enemy units with Chaos Space Marine, Chaos Demon or Khorne Demonkin faction)
It's the issue of options.
Let's compare Iron Hands to Sisters. If you want a detachment besides a CAD?
Iron Hands have several Decurion options that give great armywide buffs, like boosted FNP or army-wide ObjecSec. They have three very versatile options in total. They also have many, many formations for small additions to larger forces.
Sisters have a modified CAD with minimal benefits. Or, they have a small bonus detachment for taking Priests and a few melee specialists.
If you want a good, multi-wound HQ?
Sisters have Celestine, a 200-point model who is really powerful, but lacks options. They also have the Canonness, who is terrible, and Uriah, who is an overcosted priest who is pretty subpar of a choice.
Space Marines have Chaplains, Techpriests, Librarians, or Captains - Who can also be bumped to Chapter Masters. These all vary in power level, but each offer many unique bonuses, abilities, and reasons to be chosen.
As far as infantry goes, Sisters get the Crusader/DCA/Arco trio, they get Repentia, they get Seraphim, they get Command Squads, and they get variations on Battle Sisters with very little to differentiate them except for a single one-use special rule.
Space Marines get Command Squads, Honour Guard, Terminators, Centurions, Tactical marines and variants, Jump Assault Marines, Scouts, Bikes, Attack Bikes, Veterans, and scout bikes. (And Legion of the Damned.)
I could go on, but the point is that options are extremely limited. You can still build a list with them, but it gets very samey very quickly.
Much of this could be fixed by giving in Allies, though. A decent, cheap HQ? Buy an Inquisitor! Psychic support? Take an Imperial Psyker and some Wyrdvanes, you're all set. Maybe you want some Deep Strikers to help ouy better than Seraphim could? Try Legio-ZZT.
Sorry, you're out of detachment slots.
And I'm actually considering this one pretty heavily:
Castellan's with Easy Bake:
Celestine - 200
Ministorum Priest with Font of Fury - 35 (with Rets)
5 BSS with Melta/Flamer in Immo - 135
5 BSS with Melta/Flamer in Rhino - 115
5 Doms with 4 Melta in Repressor - 180
5 Doms with 4 Melta in Repressor - 180
5 Rets with 4 Heavy Flamers in Repressor - 175
Coteaz - 100
Inquisitorial Henchman Band with 2 Acolytes with Plasma, 3 Acolytes, 2 Servitors with Plasma in Chimera with Psybolt - 140
Exorcist - 125
5 Scouts with BP/Bolter - 55
5 Scouts with 3 Bolter/BP, 1 BP/CCW, 2 Shotgun/BP - 55
1495
5 Points to play with.
I was going to take sniper rifles, but it looks like that squad finally sold, so I don't have them anymore. Everything except the vehicles is ob sec, so that's nice.4 Troops and 2 Transports to regen. Hatred for everything. Probably Celestine warlord for the bubble of faith.
Oberron wrote: So what is the best bike group to use celestine in? I'm not use to using space marines (ever)
Castellans? I would go with a IH Captain with Chain and TH on Bike, Command Squad with Apoth, Gravs and some SS.
Non-Castellans? I would go with TWC instead of bikes.
pretre wrote: And I'm actually considering this one pretty heavily:
Castellan's with Easy Bake:
Celestine - 200
Ministorum Priest with Font of Fury - 35 (with Rets)
5 BSS with Melta/Flamer in Immo - 135
5 BSS with Melta/Flamer in Rhino - 115
5 Doms with 4 Melta in Repressor - 180
5 Doms with 4 Melta in Repressor - 180
5 Rets with 4 Heavy Flamers in Repressor - 175
Inquisitorial Henchman Band with 2 Acolytes with Plasma, 3 Acolytes, 2 Servitors with Plasma in Chimera with Psybolt - 140
Exorcist - 125
5 Scouts with BP/Bolter - 55
5 Scouts with 3 Bolter/BP, 1 BP/CCW, 2 Shotgun/BP - 55
1495
5 Points to play with.
I was going to take sniper rifles, but it looks like that squad finally sold, so I don't have them anymore. Everything except the vehicles is ob sec, so that's nice.4 Troops and 2 Transports to regen. Hatred for everything. Probably Celestine warlord for the bubble of faith.
How are they obsec? I don't see Coteaz listed. Secondly I'd suggest droping some points 10pts in the hench band or font of fury to grab a second troop immolator, with the detachment bonuses immolators are incredibly superior to rhinos.
Also, I always have a generic character be warlord so I can Master of Ambush my dominions in turn 1.
Oberron wrote: So what is the best bike group to use celestine in? I'm not use to using space marines (ever)
Castellans? I would go with a IH Captain with Chain and TH on Bike, Command Squad with Apoth, Gravs and some SS.
Non-Castellans? I would go with TWC instead of bikes.
This is correct, She always goes really well with Ravenwing Command Squads.
pretre wrote: Coteaz is in there. I mustn't have pasted it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Fixed it. I could make the priest warlord if I really wanted to. The faith bubble is more important to me though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Too bad you can't take Lias in a Castellans.
I always stick a laud hailer on one of the domi vehicles for that purpose, gives me more freedom for where Celestine can go without gimping the dominions.
Mavnas wrote: Of course the benefit of having Celestine be warlord is that she's hard to remove.
There's that as well. It is fun to make people weep trying to take her down.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ERJAK wrote: How are they obsec? I don't see Coteaz listed. Secondly I'd suggest droping some points 10pts in the hench band or font of fury to grab a second troop immolator, with the detachment bonuses immolators are incredibly superior to rhinos.
Also, I always have a generic character be warlord so I can Master of Ambush my dominions in turn 1.
Okay, so I have 5 points to play with. I would need 20 to swap to an Immo. I could drop the two plasmaguns from the Hench squad, but I like the density of plasma there. Still, that's a spot. Other than that, the only real places to get points are to drop Meltas down to flamers in the BSS or drop the Priest entirely. It is gimmicky to have the Font, but it is also amusing. Also, I'm not a big fan of taking a chance on Master of Ambush, in case I don't get it. It's one of those nice things if you can. I could make the priest warlord (and get two rolls to get it) or I could drop the priest and take an inquisitor (either in formation as an inq rep). Hmm. I can also always drop the Chimera, but that leaves Coteaz with his junk in the breeze. I certainly miss the formation slot at times like that.
Spoiler:
Celestine - 200
Ministorum Priest with Font of Fury - 35 (with Rets)
5 BSS with Melta/Flamer in Immo - 135
5 BSS with Melta/Flamer in Rhino - 115
5 Doms with 4 Melta in Repressor - 180
5 Doms with 4 Melta in Repressor - 180
5 Rets with 4 Heavy Flamers in Repressor - 175
Coteaz - 100
Inquisitorial Henchman Band with 2 Acolytes with Plasma, 3 Acolytes, 2 Servitors with Plasma in Chimera with Psybolt - 140
Exorcist - 125
5 Scouts with BP/Bolter - 55
5 Scouts with 3 Bolter/BP, 1 BP/CCW, 2 Shotgun/BP - 55
1495
pretre wrote: Coteaz is in there. I mustn't have pasted it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Fixed it. I could make the priest warlord if I really wanted to. The faith bubble is more important to me though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Too bad you can't take Lias in a Castellans.
I always stick a laud hailer on one of the domi vehicles for that purpose, gives me more freedom for where Celestine can go without gimping the dominions.
I know that the Reroll is mathematically better with the Dominions, but I like going with the Vet Superior instead. That way if the transport gets blown up, I still have a higher leadership I can rely on.
Mavnas wrote: Of course the benefit of having Celestine be warlord is that she's hard to remove.
There's that as well. It is fun to make people weep trying to take her down.
Spoiler:
Celestine - 200
Ministorum Priest with Font of Fury - 35 (with Rets)
5 BSS with Melta/Flamer in Immo - 135
5 BSS with Melta/Flamer in Rhino - 115
5 Doms with 4 Melta in Repressor - 180
5 Doms with 4 Melta in Repressor - 180
5 Rets with 4 Heavy Flamers in Repressor - 175
Coteaz - 100
Inquisitorial Henchman Band with 2 Acolytes with Plasma, 3 Acolytes, 2 Servitors with Plasma in Chimera with Psybolt - 140
Exorcist - 125
5 Scouts with BP/Bolter - 55
5 Scouts with 3 Bolter/BP, 1 BP/CCW, 2 Shotgun/BP - 55
1495
GW is making my wallet weap... that and my lack of time to actually paint anyting in the middle of basketball season.
If I'm taking Coteaz and a henchmen squad, I'd want a pair of Jakero Weaponsmiths with him. Granted, its 70 points, but it is 70 points of Obliterator shooting. Add that, and drop the Chimera. Use them to hold your middle objecive.
Here are two interesting question. Could be for made da call, but I figured I would ask the sister players first.
Do Geminae's have Martyrdom along Celestine or is that only her?
Now, furthermore, what happens if you make a geminae your warlord. Do they still award "Slay the Warlord" if they get resurrected by Celestine? They could technically not be dead at the end of the game.
If Martyrdom applies to them, it would also mean that could could effectively get automatic acts of faiths several times as she dies and gets revived.
pretre wrote: Coteaz is in there. I mustn't have pasted it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Fixed it. I could make the priest warlord if I really wanted to. The faith bubble is more important to me though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Too bad you can't take Lias in a Castellans.
I always stick a laud hailer on one of the domi vehicles for that purpose, gives me more freedom for where Celestine can go without gimping the dominions.
I know that the Reroll is mathematically better with the Dominions, but I like going with the Vet Superior instead. That way if the transport gets blown up, I still have a higher leadership I can rely on.
Mavnas wrote: Of course the benefit of having Celestine be warlord is that she's hard to remove.
There's that as well. It is fun to make people weep trying to take her down.
Spoiler:
Celestine - 200
Ministorum Priest with Font of Fury - 35 (with Rets)
5 BSS with Melta/Flamer in Immo - 135
5 BSS with Melta/Flamer in Rhino - 115
5 Doms with 4 Melta in Repressor - 180
5 Doms with 4 Melta in Repressor - 180
5 Rets with 4 Heavy Flamers in Repressor - 175
Coteaz - 100
Inquisitorial Henchman Band with 2 Acolytes with Plasma, 3 Acolytes, 2 Servitors with Plasma in Chimera with Psybolt - 140
Exorcist - 125
5 Scouts with BP/Bolter - 55
5 Scouts with 3 Bolter/BP, 1 BP/CCW, 2 Shotgun/BP - 55
1495
GW is making my wallet weap... that and my lack of time to actually paint anyting in the middle of basketball season.
If I'm taking Coteaz and a henchmen squad, I'd want a pair of Jakero Weaponsmiths with him. Granted, its 70 points, but it is 70 points of Obliterator shooting. Add that, and drop the Chimera. Use them to hold your middle objecive.
I HATE the veteran sergeant upgrade for both sisters and space marines. +1 leadership is so seldomly useful, even including AoF that paying 10pts for it is just...ugh. I understand helping sisters stay in the fight for longer or w/e but I always assume that if a unit of sisters get targeted it's going to die, and I build my lists around that fact.
This is why I don't like repressors much, I don't see the vehicles as a wrapper for the sisters, I see them as their own thing that can function just fine on their own, and immolators do that much better than repressors.
Anpu-adom wrote: GW is making my wallet weap... that and my lack of time to actually paint anyting in the middle of basketball season. If I'm taking Coteaz and a henchmen squad, I'd want a pair of Jakero Weaponsmiths with him. Granted, its 70 points, but it is 70 points of Obliterator shooting. Add that, and drop the Chimera. Use them to hold your middle objecive.
Then they are sitting with their butts out in the open. I want Jokers, but I don't know if I want them that much.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Voldrak wrote: Do Geminae's have Martyrdom along Celestine or is that only her?
I'd need to see the actual book. The one from the box doesn't indicate.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ERJAK wrote: This is why I don't like repressors much, I don't see the vehicles as a wrapper for the sisters, I see them as their own thing that can function just fine on their own, and immolators do that much better than repressors.
But I have a ton of melta. More heavy flamers are harder.. wait I have a lot of those too. Dammit. My main thing with repressors is to keep people alive. The fire points really sell it.
Voldrak wrote: Here are two interesting question. Could be for made da call, but I figured I would ask the sister players first.
Do Geminae's have Martyrdom along Celestine or is that only her?
Now, furthermore, what happens if you make a geminae your warlord. Do they still award "Slay the Warlord" if they get resurrected by Celestine? They could technically not be dead at the end of the game.
If Martyrdom applies to them, it would also mean that could could effectively get automatic acts of faiths several times as she dies and gets revived.
according to the book....... none of them, not even st celestine herself as listed anyway even though the rule text is there.
I really wanna make a list with 6 exorcist with the Cellestan detachment. What would be good to back them upp/make them stronger? I know the new cannoness is an option but with anything outside of SOB I'm lost with the imperiam, to many choices that I get confused. A techmarine looks good to help out exorcist but other than that What else would compliment the range firepower? Bikes for speed and harassment units? easy bake oven sisters? Dominions?
Also as a side note what are the best elite options from castellans? Lets say best for melee and/or best for mid-range shooting.
Oberron wrote: I really wanna make a list with 6 exorcist with the Cellestan detachment. What would be good to back them upp/make them stronger? I know the new cannoness is an option but with anything outside of SOB I'm lost with the imperiam, to many choices that I get confused. A techmarine looks good to help out exorcist but other than that What else would compliment the range firepower? Bikes for speed and harassment units? easy bake oven sisters? Dominions?
Also as a side note what are the best elite options from castellans? Lets say best for melee and/or best for mid-range shooting.
Probably take fewer of them and swap some of them out for Wyverns which are better vs. hordes or things in cover/out of LoS then some sort of blob to add a priest to and put between them and the enemy.
The new Canonness isn't an option, BTW. She isn't mentioned by name in the Castellans detachment.
As was said above, taking 6 Exorcists is probably a bad idea. It's 810 points without any Storm Bolters to soak up Weapon Destroyed, so even in a 2k game that's nearly half your army invested, and it only deals with a few specific subsets of enemies.
If you're GOING TO take it, though, you're going to want some things.
Belisarius Cawl and some other models with Canticles will be a good idea. Dropping a 4+ Invuln, trebbled IWND, or +3 BS is going to multiply them considerably.
Blobs to screen against assault and provide cover are also vital. Exorcists absolutely melt against CC due to their low rear armor, so you really don't want them being charged.
On a related note, bringing some flamers is going to be important. You're investing half your army in something that can't scratch Hordes. You're going to need to cover that hold somehow. So yeah, Easy Bake Oven sisters should do it.
Waaaghpower wrote: The new Canonness isn't an option, BTW. She isn't mentioned by name in the Castellans detachment.
I believe her rules say that she can be taken in any detachment that can take a cannonness. (Unlike other named characters who are occasionally mentioned by the formations/detachments.)
Actually, somewhat related question: Does her rule benefit units that contain some Sisters ICs? I was looking through the FAQ for anything about multi-faction unit, but it only mentions them as counting as all factions when being targeted by enemies with specific preferred enemy or hatred rules not in general. Seems like she'd be quite powerful if she did. Actually, she'd still be quite powerful in a battle conclave allowing DCAs to cut past the tanky parts of a unit (assuming there are some).
Mavnas is correct. She can be taken instead of a normal canoness in Castellans.
Re: 6 Exorcists. I just think that may be too much of a good thing. They aren't quite as points efficient as they used to be. That being said, anything that is going to give them rerolls is nice. So Psykers with prescience. Cawl is a great idea.
Re: Veridyan. I'd say no on mixed units.
Lastly, Jokaeros: Did anyone notice they got buffed? The 6+ is now 'pick two' not 'roll two more times'
Automatically Appended Next Post: For ERJAK:
I'm thinking maybe swapping around a bit and doing this:
Celestine - 200
Ministorum Priest with Font of Fury - 35 (with Rets)
5 BSS with Melta/Flamer in Immo - 135
5 BSS with Flamer/Flamer in Immo - 130
5 Doms with 4 Melta in Repressor - 180
5 Doms with 4 Melta in Repressor - 180
5 Rets with 4 Heavy Flamers in Repressor - 175
Coteaz - 100
Inquisitorial Henchman Band with 2 Jokaero, 3 Acolytes, 2 Servitors with Plasma - 130
Exorcist - 125
5 Scouts with BP/Bolter - 55
5 Scouts with 3 Bolter/BP, 1 BP/CCW, 2 Shotgun/BP - 55
1500
I could also hot swap the Priest for a Inquisitorial Representative (free Warlord Trait) with Hereticus and 3 Skulls.
pretre wrote: Mavnas is correct. She can be taken instead of a normal canoness in Castellans.
Re: 6 Exorcists. I just think that may be too much of a good thing. They aren't quite as points efficient as they used to be. That being said, anything that is going to give them rerolls is nice. So Psykers with prescience. Cawl is a great idea.
Re: Veridyan. I'd say no on mixed units.
Lastly, Jokaeros: Did anyone notice they got buffed? The 6+ is now 'pick two' not 'roll two more times'
Yeah. Taking 5 Jokaeros in a squad with 10 PA Acolytes now gets you Acolytes in termie armor.
Waaaghpower wrote: Yeah. Taking 5 Jokaeros in a squad with 10 PA Acolytes now gets you Acolytes in termie armor.
Yeah, but that's kind of stupid expensive.
Yeah, if you take enough Jokaeros to guarantee the 6 (which is 6, not 5, since the first doesn't give you a +1 on the roll), you're paying 210 points for 6 lascannons/multi-meltas. You have an expensive, immobile, BS3 unit that wants to shoot for the most part. I'm not saying it can't work, but the acolytes will probably be mostly there to soak up hits. I did consider the benefits of 36" multi-meltas or say 6 rending heavy flamers that are just always rending coupled with 12 rending stormbolters. It could work, but careful thought needs to be given to it given its high points cost, low BS, and heavy weaponry.
Although, I'm glad my angst got quite a bit of discussion going here.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So funny story. Celestine's blessing doesn't say 'Friendly' in it. It affects all armies of the imperium in range, even if they are your opponent:
"Saint Celestine can bestow a Saintly Blessing at the start
of each of your turns. A Saintly Blessing affects all non-
vehicle units from the Armies of the Imperium that have
the Battlefield Role associated with that blessing, and are
within 12" of Saint Celestine when it is activated. Each
Saintly Blessing can only be activated once during the
course of each battle. Independent Characters that have
joined units that are affected by a Saintly Blessing are also
affected so long as they remain in the unit.
"
I just remembered that Vanguard Veterans can get cheap power weapons and jump packs. 270 points for 10 jump infantry with power weapons. Maybe they could be Celestine's squad? They're not T5 like bikers though.
Yesterday I tested out Celestine and the new Castellans formation and i have to say i was rather impressed. I played a Space wolf player with am all drop pod army focused on hitting hard and fast.
My list:
Celestine
Coteaz
Space Marine Command Squad (Storm Sheilds, Bikes, Grav guns)
4 Sister squads (2 with F/HF, 2 with F/F) two of the squads in repressors
Grav Centurions
2 Dominion squads in Immolators
2 Exorcists
(1850 on the dot)
I put Celestine with the command squad Coteaz with the Cents and put them up front. Arranged my units so that the Exorcists were behind them, Meltas were to the outside of the other units. THe Wolves were terrified of "I was expecting you" so it completely threw off his game. He landed most of his units inpretty terrible places to avoid the grav shots. Only to isntead eat tons of melta or to have Celestine and friends hack through them.
Exoricists and Dominions did alot of the work, the Cents and Celestine/Friends soaked up most of the damage and most of the attention which helped. Even had Celestine kill a dread and a few pods with her new Armor Bane ability which is awesome.
Waaaghpower wrote: The new Canonness isn't an option, BTW. She isn't mentioned by name in the Castellans detachment.
I believe her rules say that she can be taken in any detachment that can take a cannonness. (Unlike other named characters who are occasionally mentioned by the formations/detachments.)
Actually, somewhat related question: Does her rule benefit units that contain some Sisters ICs? I was looking through the FAQ for anything about multi-faction unit, but it only mentions them as counting as all factions when being targeted by enemies with specific preferred enemy or hatred rules not in general. Seems like she'd be quite powerful if she did. Actually, she'd still be quite powerful in a battle conclave allowing DCAs to cut past the tanky parts of a unit (assuming there are some).
I also want to add to this and say that some of the Badab War characters are also permissible choices per the wording on their PDF plus responses from ForgeWorld on the matter. Also, Repressors can be taken by C:IA Sororitas units, including a Hereticus Warband that includes a unit of Battle Sisters.
Relevant Badab War text:
Each character in this update has been assigned the appropriate Chapter Tactics and, as with the special characters presented in Codex: Space Marines, may be included as part of any detachment with the same Chapter Tactic. Where characters from a named Chapter have the Chapter Tactic of another Chapter (for example, Vaylund Cal of the Sons of Medusa, who has Chapter Tactics (Iron Hands)), they may be taken as part of a detachment representing a different Chapter that has the same Chapter Tactic (for example, Vaylund Cal could be selected as part of an Iron Hands detachment), but are assumed to be that Chapter’s ‘version’ of that character. This does not affect the unique nature of these characters and only one of each may be included in any army.
So as long as you take, say, Chapter Tactics: Raptors, you can take Lias Issodon as long as the detachment includes the ability to take Chapter Masters.
As for confirmation, answers above, questions below:
Hi *redacted*
Thanks for contacting us. We won't be able to provide official answers to your questions until an FAQ/errata is published by our studio but we can give you our 'house rules' answers as to how we would play them.
1. Yes, provide they are taken for Sororitas units.
2. Yes.
3. Yes provided the Badab War special characters are equivalent to what they are being exchanged for such as Chapter Masters in place of Chapter Masters and so on.
How would you rate my reply?
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If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us.
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Forge World
If you have a query about your order, please call
0115 900 4995 within the UK
On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 10:24 PM GMT, *email redacted* wrote:
1. With the release of Codex: Imperial Agents, if an Adepta Sororitas player chooses to use Codex: Imperial Agents to form their army instead of Codex: Adepta Sororitas, may that player take Repressors as dedicated transports for their units?
2. May a player who takes an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor, or Inquisitor Karamazov, for their Inquisitorial Henchman Warband that also takes a squad of Battle Sisters take a Repressor as a dedicated transport for the unit?
3. With the release of Fall of Cadia and the Castellans of the Imperium detachment, can special characters from the Badab War be included in this detachment?
Relevant text for question:
"Each character in this update has been assigned the appropriate Chapter Tactics and, as with the special characters presented in Codex: Space Marines, may be included as part of any detachment with the same Chapter Tactic."
For example, the formation lists Librarian as an allowed HQ choice. Could Magister Sevrin Loth be taken as a Librarian in this formation if the detachment uses the Red Scorpions Chapter Tactic?
Nice...
I'm guessing that it would be a stretch too far for something like a Chapter Tactic to spread across an entire army.
For example, you take the Raptors Chapter tactic in a Castellans Detachment, and 'models in this detachment gain Scout. In addition, models in this detachment have Stealth on he first turn of the game."
Stealthed and Scouting BSS in Rhinos to go with my already scouting Dominions? Sure!
The old, Forgeworld Chapter tactics relate to the whole detachment... not to models that have the "Chapter Tactics" special rule. The new chapter tactics are clear on that.
Maybe it isn't an option. The Raptors tactics say, "As per the Raven Guard...." one could argue that you use the most current version of the Raven Guard tactics rather than those printed in the PDF.
Most of the Chapter Tactics have been updated in the PDF to say " Models with Chapter Tactics (Red Scorpions)" or "All units with Chapter Tactics (Carcharodons) ". The only ones that specify the detachment are:
Raptors (Strike From the Shadows)
Mantis Warriors (Shadow Killers)
Angels Revenant (To the Last Breath)
Star Phantoms (Orbital Wave Attack)
I've also seen mentioned somewhere that ForgeWorld has stated their "dreadnaughts" count as Dreadnaughts for purposes of formations so if you want to take a Deredeo or Leviathan... or one of the FW Special Character dreads... you can. But I'll be damned if I can find it anymore.
Okay so I've been playing with my sisters and 2 knights for a while, but recently I became more and more frustrated with those knights (too fragile, not reliable enough). I did had some success with them, and maybe it's just my current streak of bad luck talking, but for the LVO I am looking into possible alternatives. I sketched a list I am happy with that leaves room for whatever allies. Obvious choices are SW or IH command, but do they fit nicely in ~600pts ?
Pretre I know you have ton of experience with the SW part, how costly do they need to be to function ?
Anyone tried out the IHFNP command bikers ? I feel they have less punch and less tankiness than the SW, but they probably cost less overall.
RabbitMaster wrote: Pretre I know you have ton of experience with the SW part, how costly do they need to be to function ?
Anyone tried out the IHFNP command bikers ? I feel they have less punch and less tankiness than the SW, but they probably cost less overall.
600 Points? That's gravy.
WGBL with PF/SS on TWM - 140
Elite Iron Priest on TWM with 4 Cyberwolves - 165
Elite Iron Priest on TWM - 105
5 Wulfen with SFAL, GFA, TH/SS - 180
That's 590. Throw Celestine in there and you have Hilarity. According to the new FAQ, the Wulfen wouldn't get run and charge, but your WGBL and Iron Priests would get the effect of Wulfen bubble.
On the other hand, you could do IH:
Chapter Master on Bike with Thunder Hammer/Gorgon's Chain - 225
Chaplain on Bike - 110
5 Command Squad on Bikes with 3 Grav, 2 Storm Shield, Company Champ and Apoth - 220
Scouts - 55
610 Points
pretre wrote: Wulfen can make your heavy hitters a lot better. The +3 to all movement one is crazy on TWC characters.
If that's the bounding loap special rule wulfen have, characters don't get that and attaching a character to wulfen stops them from using it. As of the new FAQ.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oberron wrote: I really wanna make a list with 6 exorcist with the Cellestan detachment. What would be good to back them upp/make them stronger? I know the new cannoness is an option but with anything outside of SOB I'm lost with the imperiam, to many choices that I get confused. A techmarine looks good to help out exorcist but other than that What else would compliment the range firepower? Bikes for speed and harassment units? easy bake oven sisters? Dominions?
Also as a side note what are the best elite options from castellans? Lets say best for melee and/or best for mid-range shooting.
Canoness Veridyan will give them precision shots. A knight crusader would distract from them pretty well. As for the rest of the armies of the imperium...guard tanks? Wyverns are scary and SM quad mortors are really nasty too if you want to go full ordnance.
pretre wrote: Wulfen can make your heavy hitters a lot better. The +3 to all movement one is crazy on TWC characters.
If that's the bounding loap special rule wulfen have, characters don't get that and attaching a character to wulfen stops them from using it. As of the new FAQ.
I mentioned that in my post. Bounding leap is run and charge. Their aura works on characters though and one of the most likely is +3 to all movement.
Any thoughts on the optimal set up for a Castellan's bikestar?
I was thinking something like this, with using the bikes to string out the unit so the footslogging can stay attached and slingshot into assault. Not to mention some t5 3+/3++/4+FNP meatshields.
Celestine for fearless, and hit and run. Coteaz for 2 rolls on telepathy, aiming for invis priest for reroll saves SM command squad, Iron hands chapter tactics, apothecary, Bikes, Stormshields. For some tasty, majority t5 3++, FNP on the unit and +1 to FNP on the marines. Not to mention celestine can give the unit her saintly blessing for elites to buff the unit with furious charge and counter attack.
Options are:
Adding some power weapons or grav to the bikers for some extra hitting power, but I'm not sure of the optimal setup.
Adding in an SM libby on a bike to add an additional priest for redundancy without breaking majority toughness and another roll at getting invis or rolling for one of the 'new' SM powers.
Seems massively expensive and potentially slowed down by non-12" moving chars. Although if you're willing to do that I think I'd throw in a second priest and an inquisitor w/rad grenades. Shred and -1T on the enemy would be brutal with power weapons.
TBH it's not really that expensive considering Big C and little C are considered all but mandatory. So it's really around 205 points to bring it together and make a scary looking deathstar.
Adding a 2nd priest and an inquisitor is a non option without adding at least 2 marine ICs on bikes as it would shift the majority toughness to t3 and defeat the point of bringing bikes in the first place.
The rest of the list i was considering to run in tandem with this is:
That's more of a tar pit than a deathstar though. Sure, they're hard to remove, but they're not super likely to kill things. You get 20 S4 AP- attacks, some number of S3 attacks, and 6 S5 AP3 attacks on the turn you charge. Assuming you hit with 15 + 5.33 against enemy T5, you put out 8ish wounds. If the enemy has 2+ and FNP, you might do nothing. It looks better if you shred instead of rerolling your own and I've left Coteaz math out since I forgot his stat line, but...
Automatically Appended Next Post: You could give them PW and a chapter banner which would increase the attack count.
I concur, the IH "bikestar" works well mostly because of the captain gorgon hammer (and his potential friend captain america if you go double down, but starts to be a different army).
And definitively put some grav in here. This unit is not a stellar close combat unit even with the captain, so it needs to be polyvalent (plus grav really complement the sister arsenal).
RabbitMaster wrote: I concur, the IH "bikestar" works well mostly because of the captain gorgon hammer (and his potential friend captain america if you go double down, but starts to be a different army).
And definitively put some grav in here. This unit is not a stellar close combat unit even with the captain, so it needs to be polyvalent (plus grav really complement the sister arsenal).
I'd somewhat disagree. The captain makes the unit even more tanky. The all SS 4+++ Command squad also covers that. It's overkill mostly especially since Celestine got much tougher and more expensive without a significant increase in offensive power. It needs some AP2 and either some Strength or ability to reroll wounds or just large numbers of attacks.
You could also do something like allying something like Grey Knights and take Brother-Captain Stern. (Hammerhand for the Strength and Sanctuary for 2+++ from the stormshields) or anyone that can give the unit Furious Charge or Rage or -1T to enemies. Alternatively swapping some of those SS for some axes (losing the SS gives you the extra attack).
TR: BSS + 2x flamer in rhino dozer (115)
TR: BSS + 2x flamer in rhino dozer (115)
FA: Dominion + 4x melta in repressor (180)
FA: Dominion + 4x melta in repressor (180)
FA: Dominion + 4x melta in rhino dozer (145)
-------------------------------------------
Inq representative detachment: HQ: Hereticus inquisitor with condemnor, psyocculum, 3x skulls (99)
-------------------------------------------
IH allied detachment: HQ: Captain Gorgon + Fist + lightning claw + auspex + bike (220)
EL: Bike Command Squad + 4x gravguns + 2x shields + apoth + 1x meltabomb (225)
TR: Scout squad in LS storm heavy flamer (95)
FA: Stormtalon + skyhammer (115)
The list is slightly overpoint (1879) so I need to trim ~30pts of fat somewhere...
I know the anti-psyker part is really expensive because of that stupid canoness tax, but when it works it's worth it: 7 condemnor shot at BS10, that's 7 perils bypassing everything but FNP. And at LVO one can expect to face many psykers over 6 games.
To free up some points I was considering maybe replacing the 3rd domninion squad by a Thunderfire/quad-mortar, but not having 3 dominion squad makes me feel funny. With the spare points I could give the cannoness a combi-melta, transforming the command squad in pseudo-dominion. Another option is to remove the LS storm from the scout, but it's a nice fast obj-sec grabber and the outflank fast HF is actually quite nice to dislodge infantry hiding in ruins.
Drop the canoness and take a SCS from IA. You can mix books in a cad. Make sure your BSS are from IA as well since their act matters if it works in multiple phases.
Leave the Doms from C:AS since that gives them access to repressors.
Take the Chain (45) on your Captain, drop the two dozers on the rhinos and upgrade him to a Chapter Master.
pretre wrote: Drop the canoness and take a SCS from IA. You can mix books in a cad. Make sure your BSS are from IA as well since their act matters if it works in multiple phases.
Leave the Doms from C:AS since that gives them access to repressors.
Can we really do that ? I thought we had to choose between the two codex (hence my comment about the cannonness tax). If yes then sure it solves a lot of issues =) I mean GW-wise it makes sense (different books but same faction), ITC-wise however not so sure.
[EDIT] well the more i think of it the more it make sense army-format wise. That's the exact same scenario as for the few other armies/units (like the Iron priest for SW that can be taken from different books, etc...).
pretre wrote: Take the Chain (45) on your Captain, drop the two dozers on the rhinos and upgrade him to a Chapter Master.
Chain's already there (his name is not Captain Gorgon for nothing ^^)
Codex Adepta sororitas is distinct and separate from the Vestal Formation (and its attendent units) in Imperial Agents as the book itself tells you.
Celestine has a specific rule that allows her to be added to other Sisters of battle armies but this exception is NOT granted in the Imperial Agents book.
As far as Forge World goes, most of their units say they can be taken "As part of " an X or Y army when they are not intrinsically so. Most of Forge World falls into this category, but not all of it does.
Pandoras box. It was just a bad idea from the word go. Blame 6E.
Codex Adepta sororitas is distinct and separate from the Vestal Formation (and its attendent units) in Imperial Agents as the book itself tells you.
Celestine has a specific rule that allows her to be added to other Sisters of battle armies but this exception is NOT granted in the Imperial Agents book.
As far as Forge World goes, most of their units say they can be taken "As part of " an X or Y army when they are not intrinsically so. Most of Forge World falls into this category, but not all of it does.
Pandoras box. It was just a bad idea from the word go. Blame 6E.
It's a list for LVO, so the new Celestine is out of consideration I have to settle for the old one.
Pretty sure we could field a Vestal detachment with the old codex though. I don't have my C:IA with me at work to double check, but I would be surprised if anything restricted it to C:IA. Anyway, that detachment is just plain bad.
Codex Adepta sororitas is distinct and separate from the Vestal Formation (and its attendent units) in Imperial Agents as the book itself tells you.
Celestine has a specific rule that allows her to be added to other Sisters of battle armies but this exception is NOT granted in the Imperial Agents book.
As far as Forge World goes, most of their units say they can be taken "As part of " an X or Y army when they are not intrinsically so. Most of Forge World falls into this category, but not all of it does.
Pandoras box. It was just a bad idea from the word go. Blame 6E.
This is incorrect.
Combined Arms Detachment Restrictions All units chosen must have the same Faction (or have no Faction).
Emphasis is mine. Both C:AS and C:IA units have a faction of 'Adepta Sororitas'. Hence you are free to mix and match those units in a CAD (and indeed any detachment of the appropriate type). This is the same reason you can use a Inquisitorial Representative detachment to take an Inquisitor from C:I. It is important to note that the ITC does not allow you to take two identically named units in the same list, however. (You could not take both a Dominion from IA and a Dominion from AS.)
Forgeworld, on the other hand, lists it by book. "Codex: Adepta Sororitas References in Imperial Armour Volume Two: Second Edition to ‘ Codex: Sisters of Battle’ should be read as ‘Codex: Adepta Sororitas" so you can't take Repressors for a unit from C:IA.
Ug, sounds like i'm reading something from an intellectual property lawyer.
I was just going to throw New Celestine (and friends) in with my seraphim and see what happens. I think they may be the cheapest jump-type troops available to her, and they have a re-rollable 6++ to boot!
Codex Adepta sororitas is distinct and separate from the Vestal Formation (and its attendent units) in Imperial Agents as the book itself tells you.
Celestine has a specific rule that allows her to be added to other Sisters of battle armies but this exception is NOT granted in the Imperial Agents book.
As far as Forge World goes, most of their units say they can be taken "As part of " an X or Y army when they are not intrinsically so. Most of Forge World falls into this category, but not all of it does.
Pandoras box. It was just a bad idea from the word go. Blame 6E.
It's a list for LVO, so the new Celestine is out of consideration I have to settle for the old one.
Pretty sure we could field a Vestal detachment with the old codex though. I don't have my C:IA with me at work to double check, but I would be surprised if anything restricted it to C:IA. Anyway, that detachment is just plain bad.
Nope. Vestal Detachment uses just the units in Imperial Agents. Not Adepta Sororitas.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Faction does not define formation. Faction just means faction. So no. Im not wrong.
And Faction is a defined term from the rules. Units in different books can be the same faction. For example: AS is a faction the exists in two books.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mavnas wrote: Are TWC with Hammers or fists the only source of lots of S10 attacks? I know some ICs can get them, but the points per attack ratio is higher.
S10 is of course useful for breaking FNP on T5.
Twc and wulfen are my favorite (and the cheapest).
Amishprn86 wrote: Sorry if this been Answer, Ive been out due to surgery and have a really hard time reading right now.
In the Fall of Cadia can the SoB take the transports (not as a dedicated but just take them) from the FA slot. aka Drop pods?
Not definite but I think the ruling as per current FAQs is:
They could buy them from your points allowance but not start the game in them as they are still a different Faction (*) - so Drop Pods are less useful.
(*) There was quite a bit of discussion about how detachments and formations and all that nonsense works in relation to this and Factions when C:IA came out.
Units in the same detachment don't change faction. Transport usage is based on faction. The only time a unit can start in another unit's transport now is if it is a dedicated transport for that unit (Example: Henchmen in Codex: IA) and that is because the main rulebook says a DT changes to your faction when you take it.
war wrote: I thought they FAQ ed that for the IA valks so they were useable
Page 46 – Faction and Allies
Add the following to the end of the first paragraph:
‘Transports from this Faction can transport Astra
Militarum, Militarum Tempestus and Inquisition units
as if they were all of the same Faction.’
And Faction is a defined term from the rules. Units in different books can be the same faction. For example: AS is a faction the exists in two books.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mavnas wrote: Are TWC with Hammers or fists the only source of lots of S10 attacks? I know some ICs can get them, but the points per attack ratio is higher.
S10 is of course useful for breaking FNP on T5.
Twc and wulfen are my favorite (and the cheapest).
Im not wrong. the Vestal requires AS FACTION...and all those units are i nthat faction. but as the book tells you earlier, the FORMATION is there along wit hthe units that can be included in it.
So the Formation requires that they have the Adepta Sororitas Faction, but that does not expand the Formation to allow things other than the units listed FOR the Formation anymore than the Grey Knight section REPLACES the grey Knight codex. it doesn't.
Jancoran wrote: Twc and wulfen are my favorite (and the cheapest).
Im not wrong. the Vestal requires AS FACTION...and all those units are i nthat faction. but as the book tells you earlier, the FORMATION is there along wit hthe units that can be included in it.
So the Formation requires that they have the Adepta Sororitas Faction, but that does not expand the Formation to allow things other than the units listed FOR the Formation anymore than the Grey Knight section REPLACES the grey Knight codex. it doesn't.
Quote the exact page and text where "the book tells you earlier, the FORMATION is there along wit hthe units that can be included in it. "
I'll save you some time, it isn't there.
Page 34
DETACHMENTS
Each Faction included in this book is represented by a unique
Detachment, enabling you to field the units associated with that
Faction alongside your other Armies of the Imperium forces. These Detachments each have their own Force Organisation
Chart, and feature bespoke Command Abilities that best reflect
their fighting style.
Emphasis mine.
This is the same situation as other formations and detachments where they allow units with the same faction from other books.
deviantduck wrote: So.. then there's no reason to ever run a CAD over a Vestal Task Force?
There's no reason to run a vestal when you can get obsec in the CAD. One turn of rerolling saves isn't worth giving that up. Secondly, if you don't mind Coteaz, there's no reason to run a CAD instead of Castellans.
deviantduck wrote: So.. then there's no reason to ever run a CAD over a Vestal Task Force?
Pretty much.
The Vestal is more taxes and less benefits. ObSec on each troops (including the transports) is just way superior than rerolling saves for a dozen or so sisters for one turn only.
And Castellans+Coteaz is probably always better than a CAD unless you're looking for specific allies that can't be part of it, or if you're playing at lower point levels.
I would put Castellans and Coteaz higher if you want normal marines, inquisition or guard as allies.
CAD is only higher if you want DA or SW as allies.
I don't see any reason for double cad anymore when you can take Castellans.
pretre wrote: I would put Castellans and Coteaz higher if you want normal marines, inquisition or guard as allies.
CAD is only higher if you want DA or SW as allies.
I don't see any reason for double cad anymore when you can take Castellans.
I agree with all of that. Everyday it gets harder to argue any type of FoC. It comes down to what models you want to bring, then figuring out the best way to bring them.
I'm still tweaking my LVO list. The rough skeleton is as follows:
I can never get fists/priests to them in time. If i go first they deploy as far away as possible and if they go first they use the double pie plate and str10 out all my wolves. I honestly think i have more trouble against stompa orks than any other faction.
CotGW
Battle Leader
Iron Priest
Servitor
4x Thundercav
Librarius Conclave
3x Biker Librarians
Looks pretty strong as far as Sister armies goes !
We're not the best to deal with superheavy anyway (except IK maybe if we can get enough melta in close range and they don't have crazy psychic support). But yeah, no better answer than what Pretre said, use LoS and good 3++ rolls. If possible you cna also protect yourself by engaging a unit with not too many models (so you get stuck for his turn), then H'n'R away to get that stompa.
pretre wrote: I'm not sure what Sisters add to a Baronial Court. Seems like there are better allies for that kind of list.
Im taking Celestine for 2 reasons 1) a good off tank harasser and 2) unlocks relics for the Baron to take the Desvalle’s Holy Circle
Ahh, gotcha! In that case, I see what you are getting at.
Automatically Appended Next Post: In that case, I would probably drop the seraphim to get a ride for the BSS. Or, maybe crazy talk, drop the Seraphim and get a VSG.
So I was trying to think about what kind of unit I would run Coteaz in. Anyone have experience with TFCs? It seems like the could make a deep striking unit very sad unless said unit had a means of spreading out after placement.
Mavnas wrote: So I was trying to think about what kind of unit I would run Coteaz in. Anyone have experience with TFCs? It seems like the could make a deep striking unit very sad unless said unit had a means of spreading out after placement.
That's not a bad one. Grav cents are a natural fit as well.
pretre wrote: In that case, I would probably drop the seraphim to get a ride for the BSS. Or, maybe crazy talk, drop the Seraphim and get a VSG.
Mmmmh for the VSG wouldn't he need an additional troop as well ? There is no fortification slot in he allied detachment, and I don' think here is any in the baronnial court either.
So I was trying to think about what kind of unit I would run Coteaz in. Anyone have experience with TFCs? It seems like the could make a deep striking unit very sad unless said unit had a means of spreading out after placement.
My go-to unit is usually a henchmen unit with 3 plasma acolytes, 3 heavy weapon servitor (either multi-melta or plasma canon depending on my mood and points), one or two jokaero (praying for the magic +12" range) and a few ablative wounds (naked acolytes). TFC could work but i'd recommend a unit of at least 2 so that each free shooting "phase" is worth it.
However, in m experience Coteaz's 12" bubble is more a scarecow than anything. Most good armies that relies on dropping important units have one way or another to no scatter or reduce it significantly, and tend to deepstrike right on he edge of the bubble, avoiding any fire. Most of the time the only units I had the occasion to shoot were either unlucky drop pods wih a few marines inside. But even then, between cover, LoS blocking terrain, etc... Coteaz shooting was not always impactful.
pretre wrote: In that case, I would probably drop the seraphim to get a ride for the BSS. Or, maybe crazy talk, drop the Seraphim and get a VSG.
Mmmmh for the VSG wouldn't he need an additional troop as well ? There is no fortification slot in he allied detachment, and I don' think here is any in the baronnial court either.
True, but I think by dropping the Seras you'd still have enough. Anyways, it's an oddball idea.
Oberron wrote: What are some good tactics for sisters against Genestealer cults?
Over kill every unit. We have many flamers, bolters , storm/heavy botlers, HF 's etc..
Stay in vehicles for deployment.
Stay in vehicles yes, but mind your positioning. It is extremely easy for GSC units to charge, surround the transport and wreck it, killing the whole unit inside in the process. Always try to create some space were the GSC can't go when charging.
Otherwise, flamers are your BFF, try to always be within 6" of them so they can't disappear, and always, always destroy their units completely.
deviantduck wrote: has anyone found any third party heads that doesn't look like garbage? I'm getting sick of throwing the immolator gunner head on every model.
Each person is going to have their own list of must haves, of course. Here are mine.
4 Melta Doms in a Retributor or
2 Melta/2 Flamer Doms in an TL-Melta Immolator
Melta/Flamer BSS in Rhino
Exorcists
5 Condemnor Boltgun Command Squad + Priest in a rhino
Alternate ones that are less common:
20 BSS with F/HF (For Blob)
5 Rets with 4 HF in Repressor
5-8 Rets with 4 HB in Bunker/Bastion
F/F BSS in TL-Melta Immo
There was a painted army on eBay I wanted to bid on. It was beautiful. The price kept rising till it hit absurd levels. I wanted to cry. Did anyone else see it? It ended last night.
Yes, I saw it. That army is pretty much the template of what I want to do. 2 Exorcists, 3 Immolators and 2 Repressors (I'll probably change that just rhinos...) but yeah... a very pretty army.
Sisters prices have jumped quite a bit on ebay after the release of Fall of Cadia. Metal Sister Superiors have tripled in asking price from $8 to $24.
I am going to wait till plastic sisters hit. Then hopefully the prices on the metals drop and I can get a SoB army for a decent price. I don't really need the new models. I love the old metals just fine. I just can't handle the price.
I don't think I have ever regretted anything in this hobby more than getting rid of my sisters army (back in 4th).
I hear what you say, Whitebeard. I've held onto everything that I've actually painted.
I bought my first 30 Sisters off ebay and averaged $6 a piece last fall. Pretty proud of that. Sure, I have some special weapons that I don't intend to use, but who doesn't. I could use a few Superiors with combi-weapons... but I don't want to convert the metals. That is one thing that I really hope to see in the near future.
Other than that, I'm missing the vehicles (Which are at least available again from GW)... Will be getting those in the near future.
Until then I'm playing a lot of Kill-team and on Vassel.
So after looking at the repressors in that ebay army linked above I'll bring up these questions:
1) Are the most current rules for the repressor found in Imperial armor Vol.2 2nd Ed.?
2) Is this the set of rules that give the repressor 2 fire points, front armor 13?
3) Since there's no repressor model currently available to buy, if I'm modelling for WYSIWYG, should I therefor be modelling only 2 fire points instead of the previous model's 6?
4) Do we know if the 2 fire points are supposed to face a certain direction or are they a top hatch functionality with 360 degree aiming freedom?
This was my first Sisters purchase back in 99 or so.
I have kept pretty much everything since then. The exceptions are, I sold some unpainted repentia to a buddy for a conversion since I never use them (regret) and I sold all my 2nd edition rhinos/immolators/exorcist conversions when I finally got enough new rhinos/immos/exos to replace them (no regrets)
They're also my most painted army, percentage wise. I have about 10 blisters unopened and maybe 10-20 primed sisters. The rest are all painted and ready to rock.
dakkasisterxoxo wrote: So after looking at the repressors in that ebay army linked above I'll bring up these questions:
1) Are the most current rules for the repressor found in Imperial armor Vol.2 2nd Ed.?
Yes.
2) Is this the set of rules that give the repressor 2 fire points, front armor 13?
Yes. That is my understanding.
3) Since there's no repressor model currently available to buy, if I'm modelling for WYSIWYG, should I therefor be modelling only 2 fire points instead of the previous model's 6?
Yes. That is how I would do it. To go along with the Pipe organ exorcists, I'm imagining something like a choir stall that is seen in some gothic churches. I believe that Drakpanzer's repressors are some of the nicest that I've ever seen.
4) Do we know if the 2 fire points are supposed to face a certain direction or are they a top hatch functionality with 360 degree aiming freedom?
Great question, and something that I hadn't though about. We don't. The Repressor from Forgeworld had sort of gun slits along a top of the troop transport area.
It's actually:
'Two models fan fire from the Repressors' top hatch. In addition, there are three firing ports on each side of the troop compartment, each of which may be fired out of by a single passenger."
pretre wrote: It's actually:
'Two models fan fire from the Repressors' top hatch. In addition, there are three firing ports on each side of the troop compartment, each of which may be fired out of by a single passenger."
And this quote is from Imperial Armor Vol.2 2nd Ed.? This makes more sense to me because I didn't think they'd write rules that completely contradict the current physical model with the 3 ports on each side.
Does anyone by any chance have the actual Imperial Armor Vol.2 2nd Ed. that they can post a picture from? The only picture I could find floating around did not include the above quote and just states Fire Points: 2.
pretre wrote: It's actually:
'Two models fan fire from the Repressors' top hatch. In addition, there are three firing ports on each side of the troop compartment, each of which may be fired out of by a single passenger."
And this quote is from Imperial Armor Vol.2 2nd Ed.? This makes more sense to me because I didn't think they'd write rules that completely contradict the current physical model with the 3 ports on each side.
Does anyone by any chance have the actual Imperial Armor Vol.2 2nd Ed. that they can post a picture from? The only picture I could find floating around did not include the above quote and just states Fire Points: 2.
Yeah you'd think that but then the immolator went at least 1 whole edition without a fire point that's clearly modeled on the tank.
Btw, with that change immo>rhino unless you literally only have 40 points left.
pretre wrote: It's actually:
'Two models fan fire from the Repressors' top hatch. In addition, there are three firing ports on each side of the troop compartment, each of which may be fired out of by a single passenger."
And this quote is from Imperial Armor Vol.2 2nd Ed.? This makes more sense to me because I didn't think they'd write rules that completely contradict the current physical model with the 3 ports on each side.
Does anyone by any chance have the actual Imperial Armor Vol.2 2nd Ed. that they can post a picture from? The only picture I could find floating around did not include the above quote and just states Fire Points: 2.
The only thing it's missing is an option to sacrifice the firing points to replace it with an assault ramp and you'd have a reason to take it for repentias.
Anpu-adom wrote: Sure, I have some special weapons that I don't intend to use, but who doesn't.
I actually don't have a single special weapon that doesn't have a dedicated place in rounding off a unit... yet.
Also, don't convert. My younger self tried converting some grenade sisters' bolters into combi-weapons (the only models I have that don't have an inconvenient hand in the way). They look... very mediocre. Not worth it.
Dominions x 5 - Meltaguns x 4, Repressor
Dominions x 5 - Meltaguns x 4, Repressor
Wyvern
Wyvern
Daemonhunter Detachment:
Interceptors x 5 - Halberds x 3, Incinerators, Daemonhammer on Justicar
Inquisitorial Detachment:
Inquisitor with 2 servo skulls
Lots of Ob Sec. Lots of anti tank and decent infantry killers as well. Tough nut to crack in Celestine + Interceptors. Veridyan is with the command squad, along Coteaz. Its a nice precision short I've been expecting you combo that I can sit close to the wyvern to prevent drop pods in the back field.
Wondering if I should replace the AM infantries for Militarum Scions at this point. I like how they can bubble wrap and if Coteaz isnt two far, I could merge them and have two twin linked lascannons, but I am on the fence about that part.
Yup. Typo there, Dominions definately cannot take 5 meltaguns and I wouldnt have the points for combi-meltas without making changes elsewhere.
I considered Veterans, but I had to ask myself "What do they do that sisters cannot do better?"
basically carry 1 more special weapon, but they are much more fragile if I send them up midfield with the sisters. They can also end up being more expensive than sisters if I buy 3 specials weapons and a chimaera for them.
If I decide to keep them backfield to bubble wrap the tanks, I cannot combine both squads to benefit from a single Prescience.
I am not sold on them personally. I might be missing something however.
Combi meltas on Dominions is advisable. You want absolute certsainty when they go off in my opinion. Just 5 dice leaves a lot of room for error. 4 dice more so. it is, after all, a dice game.
Do we have confirmation on what the latest correct rules for repressors are? I'm hearing the awesome 8 fire points one, and the 2 fire points one; too many conflicting making me confused.
Also, with the 8 fire point variant; wouldn't only 5 models be able to shoot from it? Having 3 points on each side effectively creates the need to broadside, exposing the weaker armour.
The latest version does indeed have 8 firepoints, and up to 5 models can fire. Most people are using them to tote around Dominions with Meltaguns, so you'll only have 4 Meltas anyway. You could add a combi-melta on the Superior, but I'm not sure if that is worth the points.
if your target is straight in front of you and wider than 3 inches you can shoot all 8 points at it. But... why would you take an 8 man sister squad anyway.
Can't imagine why you'd take an 8 man sister squad either. I could understand an 8 girl sister squad :p
Maybe if its rets for their act of faith to cripple meq in a round of shooting and better survive the ensuing return fire?
Giantwalkingchair wrote: Can't imagine why you'd take an 8 man sister squad either. I could understand an 8 girl sister squad :p
Maybe if its rets for their act of faith to cripple meq in a round of shooting and better survive the ensuing return fire?
275 is enough for another tooled dominion squad. Repressors not available to you? They are definately a better choice for dominions.
I would then go for an inquisitor detachment with a lone inquisitor for the extra warlord trait. You want to roll on the strategic table for inflitration. That will help you get your Sisters of Silence up the field into decent position. Plus you can get the Liber Heresius to scout your big squad up on top of 3 servo skulls.
I'd buy one or two more inquisitors, but if you are following ITC rules, then you have to stick to 3 detachments.
So, my thought on SoS... It seems like a blob of them might be fun instead of the 20 sisters. You get 10 of them with swords, add Celestine and walk it up the field.
Other than that, I'd agree with Doms and Repressors or another Exo.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I agree with the Inq as well. Hereticus with Scout book and 3 skulls is fun. Grenades if you have the points are hilarious as well.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Lastly, if you have a blob, I really feel like you need a heavy hitter in there. Maybe get a few more priests for additional Hymns (so you can run Reroll x2 and Smash on a couple). Make sure the smash ones have Power Mauls for the S increase.
Roleplayer wrote: Working on a list for an 1850 event here in Sydney, my first in 2 years.
ICT event
Still got 275 pts to spend out of 1850.
ATM looking at.
HQ:
Celestine (Fall of Cadia)
Jacobus
Priest (litanies of faith)
TR
20 Sisters of Battle
Flamer, H.Flamer, M.Bombs.
TR
5 Sisters of Battle
Flamer, H.Flamer, Rhino.
FA
Dominion Squad
4 X melta
Immolator (TLMM)
Dominion Squad
4 X melta
Immolator (TLMM)
HS
Exorcist
Exorcist
Null Maiden Detachment
5 Sisters of Silence
5 Sisters of Silence
5 Sisters of Silence
You dont need three units of Null Maidns, i dont think. Id take just one. I think the deathstar is a little larger than it really needs to be. Save some points there also.
Three SoS units are indeed for the detachment benefit. (opponents add two less warp dice to his total every psychic phase). Also for thematic reasons.
The 20 man Sister squad:
I think if you wanted to strictly min max than the 5 sisters MSU style /IS/ better. But I'll admit I spent a LONG time painting all my sisters, and I don't really enjoy them sitting in a box, as rhinos drives around, as opposed to looking sweet in a huge group on the battlefield.
Now maybe I just play casual with my friends and don't fight real filth anymore, but I've found the unit to be pretty rock solid. It won't really kill any high armour save MSU deathstar, but its not really meant to. generally Celestine will be in it, granting Hit and Run, and it just acts as a giant tarpit.
Re-rolling armour and wounds in melee (thanks to the 2 priests, and auto passing thanks to litanies) and also having preffered enemy 3 times during the game, I find they are hard, even for dedicated CC units to shift. And can Hit and Run end of my turn, and rapid fire bolters with prefered enemy the turn after.
Obviously they also have a 5++ due to jacobus. I find people generally don't have the firepower to dedicate to actually wiping them out, while having to focus on the real threats like Exorcists, Dominion Squads, so they are generall still pretty good strength near end of the gane, and able to contest objectives well.
They will also now have a 6+ FNP for the needed turn from Celestine.
I think if I gave them any more 'killing power' through an insane IC, i'd be too many eggs in one basket. ATM I've just gone for them being a durable space taking up tarpit, walking forwards and being generally annoying, while the real threats exist out of them. Consolitating points INTO them, would make them the focus point and allow my enemy an easy choice about where to focus their firepower. (It also means, with Jacobus as the warlord, they need to kill a LOT of Sisters before ever getting that point)
Interesting point on the inquisitor. I was also considering adding in a Callexus Assasin, for themetic reasons. Both sort of make sense.
As for Repressor, they haven't been around for AGES. I have played sisters since 2nd ed, but I never got any from forgeworld, and now they just literally dont exist, even on ebay. So they're not really a option at all unles forgeworld releases the kit again.
So I am considering with the extra points
Either another Dominion Squad
Another Exorcist
A Callexus/Callidus Assasin (for backfield disruption)
Seraphim to roll around with Celestine.
I am going to have to come up with a conversion for the old Mark I Rhinos into Repressors. pretre I know you recommend the Imperial Guard older style Dozer-Blade...but I think I might try something a little more substantial.
I am curious about the insane love for Repressors.
I have always found Dominions to be a suicide squad anyway. Outflanking, destroying one crucial threat with their no cover rule for one turn, then dying and being wiped off the board. I don't expect them to live beyond the turn they 'do their thing'
Shooting with the firepoints on a repressor exposes the S11 armour anyway, and also denies you another MM shot when coming in from the flank.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
pretre wrote: Convert Repressors. I have a bunch of pics of my conversions (Immolators with PE drivers on the front, big dozers and pintle flamers).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, don't take Seraphim for Celestine. They are a trap. Take more priests for the blob or Doms or Exo or Callidus.
Why would you want more priests in the large squad? There's only really 2 hyms worth having (Re-roll Saves, and Re-Roll wound)
So I don't see much net gain other than a few lame smash attacks.
Redundancy is the main one: You can lose X number of priests before you lose your re-roll saves/wounds.
As for Smash: if you give the priest a pMaul smash turns it into a S5 AP2 beat stick which strikes at I3 (better than an unwieldy weapon but probably still striking last)
deviantduck wrote: If you're hard up exorcists, you can always buy space marine whirlwinds. I mean.. I'd call you a ninny, but it's a poor man's second best.
I own 3.
Just wont have them painted to WD standard in time :(
Roleplayer wrote: I am curious about the insane love for Repressors.
I have always found Dominions to be a suicide squad anyway. Outflanking, destroying one crucial threat with their no cover rule for one turn, then dying and being wiped off the board. I don't expect them to live beyond the turn they 'do their thing'
Shooting with the firepoints on a repressor exposes the S11 armour anyway, and also denies you another MM shot when coming in from the flank.
The idea is that they aren't a suicide squad and you get multiple turns out of them with the repressor. At least that is my experience.
So I don't see much net gain other than a few lame smash attacks.
Redundancy and smash attacks. Keep in mind that the Smash Special rule gives you AP2 without having to use the smash attack. Give a couple priests power mauls and they have S5 AP2 for all their attacks.
The other advantage to repressors is that rhinos don't have heavy flamers, and 5 melta usable fire points. Even if you don't expect to have the squad later, the Hvy flamer can burn a chunk of what ever just lost it's ride, or even a different squad entirely.
I know man :( I don't have to, but I just never play 40K. Been dabbling in AoS, and I really dig the faster pace of things.
I feel you. I just would say that it is one of those armies that is very difficult to replace. If you never think you'll use it again, that's cool, but if you think you ever might play 40k again, sit on it.
I know man :( I don't have to, but I just never play 40K. Been dabbling in AoS, and I really dig the faster pace of things.
I feel you. I just would say that it is one of those armies that is very difficult to replace. If you never think you'll use it again, that's cool, but if you think you ever might play 40k again, sit on it.
This!
I've faded in and out of 40K for the last 20 years but I never sold my miniatures and I have always been thankful.
However, sometimes it is time to move on. Either way good luck sir.
deviantduck wrote: If you're hard up exorcists, you can always buy space marine whirlwinds. I mean.. I'd call you a ninny, but it's a poor man's second best.
Why bother with whirlwinds? Just put a little church on your rhino....
So what do you guys think of this for a one off event? I'd like to grow the Sisters part of it but am unsure how to best do it.
Castellan Detachment
Coteaz
Level 2 Libby, Hunters Eye
3x 5 scouts in storms with multi-melta, combi-grav
5 Tacs in a Pod, melta gun
3x 5 dominions, 4 meltas, condemnor boltgun, Rhino
2x Wyverns
3 grav cents, omniscope
FA Pod
Raptor Wing
Landspeeder Typhoon
2x Storm Talon with Skyhammers
Comes out to 1850 on the nose and has 6 ignore cover units and 6 scouting units base + plus a pod. With Coteaz for seize protection, it has the makings of a nasty alpha strike.
Okay, so the question is, for this event, what are the rulings on the following:
- Bikes as troops if you take a SM character on a bike
- Pods as regenning troops. Can they deep strike?
Because depending on those answers, my feedback is different.
Hello! I'm new here, I suppose. If you're over on the B&C I'm under the same username (I'm pretty active and . . . very puritanical). I didn't sign up here before because, well, there's no dedicated Sisters subforum. Depending on how this goes, I might post here (probably mostly in this thread) regularly.
I've only been playing 40K for about 3 and a half years, starting with Blood Angels (hence the username). I picked up Sisters about a year and a half ago, and I've been infatuated ever since. I have what I consider a pretty solid grasp on the Ministorum's fluff, especially where it pertains to the Sororitas, though my headcanon has its quirks. Overall, it's centered on the 2E Sisters codex, Codex: Witch Hunters, and the Liber Sororitas from White Dwarf 294.
I have a custom Order Minoris, the Order of the Glorious Reprisal, but recently I fancy myself an Order of the Valorous Heart player. Big Saint Lucia fan. Don't get me started on the Repentia models (suffice it to say I have no problem with the Repentia's fluff, just their models).
I have a rather substantial write up about the Order of the Glorious Reprisal, but for now, here's a list. It's supposed to be a fluffy detachment from an Order of the Valorous Heart Commandery. Not the kind of Commandery that is based out of a subsidiary Convent, it's just a group of Sisters numbering more than a Mission (which I headcanonically cap at about 50ish Sisters Militant) and less than a Preceptory (so less than 200).
MINISTORUM DELEGATION Ministorum Priest (Laspistol, Chainsword) 25 Small BSS
Heavy Support Exorcist (Dozer Blade) 130
Retributor Squad [5] (Heavy Flamer x4, Veteran Superior, Immolator(TL Multi-Melta) ) 175
Obviously this isn't super optimized. Heres some reasons why:
I can't fluffly justify more than 1 Exorcist at 1500 points (though I own 3 of course)
I bought one of the old VH banners GW used to make off eBay, so I'm going to use that, and I don't want to put the unit in a transport since the banner doesn't do anything while in a vehicle, so that's how I settled on HB for that unit.
The Power Maul is mostly there because I want to use the model in that unit.
The Exorcist has a Dozer Blade so it can be WYSIWYG I always run Seraphim, in fact, I'm kinda upset I don't have all 10 including the PS/PP Superior in this list.
I'm using one of the Plasma Pistol/Chainsword Superiors for Luxia, hence the strange loadout.
I don't run allies (well, I have a hereticus Inquisitor I might use, but not as a psyker)
I prefer to stick to the units that are actually Sororitas (priests get a bye for being so good)
I played a casual tournament a few weeks back. It was 1850 and I only had 32 infantry models in my list. It was not fun to play. I've realized I don't like too much MSU. Blob squads are lots of fun!
Anyway, comments are welcome. I have a bunch of homebrew rules I can share, but I suppose all that has to go in a different forum here on dakkadakka.
pretre wrote:Okay, so the question is, for this event, what are the rulings on the following:
- Bikes as troops if you take a SM character on a bike
- Pods as regenning troops. Can they deep strike?
Because depending on those answers, my feedback is different.
Are you married to the Raptor Wing?
1) Yes
2) Assume yes for now
Not married to the raptor wing at all
RabbitMaster wrote:Seems ok, but right now it's more a Space Marines list, not a sister one ;-)
Like Pretre said, depending how your TO rules about the Castellan, there is multiple options to improve on that list.
Servant of Dante wrote: Hello! I'm new here, I suppose. If you're over on the B&C I'm under the same username (I'm pretty active and . . . very puritanical). I didn't sign up here before because, well, there's no dedicated Sisters subforum. Depending on how this goes, I might post here (probably mostly in this thread) regularly.
Spoiler:
I've only been playing 40K for about 3 and a half years, starting with Blood Angels (hence the username). I picked up Sisters about a year and a half ago, and I've been infatuated ever since. I have what I consider a pretty solid grasp on the Ministorum's fluff, especially where it pertains to the Sororitas, though my headcanon has its quirks. Overall, it's centered on the 2E Sisters codex, Codex: Witch Hunters, and the Liber Sororitas from White Dwarf 294.
I have a custom Order Minoris, the Order of the Glorious Reprisal, but recently I fancy myself an Order of the Valorous Heart player. Big Saint Lucia fan. Don't get me started on the Repentia models (suffice it to say I have no problem with the Repentia's fluff, just their models).
I have a rather substantial write up about the Order of the Glorious Reprisal, but for now, here's a list. It's supposed to be a fluffy detachment from an Order of the Valorous Heart Commandery. Not the kind of Commandery that is based out of a subsidiary Convent, it's just a group of Sisters numbering more than a Mission (which I headcanonically cap at about 50ish Sisters Militant) and less than a Preceptory (so less than 200).
MINISTORUM DELEGATION Ministorum Priest (Laspistol, Chainsword) 25 Small BSS
Heavy Support Exorcist (Dozer Blade) 130
Retributor Squad [5] (Heavy Flamer x4, Veteran Superior, Immolator(TL Multi-Melta) ) 175
Obviously this isn't super optimized. Heres some reasons why:
I can't fluffly justify more than 1 Exorcist at 1500 points (though I own 3 of course)
I bought one of the old VH banners GW used to make off eBay, so I'm going to use that, and I don't want to put the unit in a transport since the banner doesn't do anything while in a vehicle, so that's how I settled on HB for that unit.
The Power Maul is mostly there because I want to use the model in that unit.
The Exorcist has a Dozer Blade so it can be WYSIWYG I always run Seraphim, in fact, I'm kinda upset I don't have all 10 including the PS/PP Superior in this list.
I'm using one of the Plasma Pistol/Chainsword Superiors for Luxia, hence the strange loadout.
I don't run allies (well, I have a hereticus Inquisitor I might use, but not as a psyker)
I prefer to stick to the units that are actually Sororitas (priests get a bye for being so good)
I played a casual tournament a few weeks back. It was 1850 and I only had 32 infantry models in my list. It was not fun to play. I've realized I don't like too much MSU. Blob squads are lots of fun!
Anyway, comments are welcome. I have a bunch of homebrew rules I can share, but I suppose all that has to go in a different forum here on dakkadakka.
Welcome! Servant of Dante!
Sisters are my 3rd army after Necrons and Orks. I'm building them as SMU because it is different that the playstyle of my other armies. I'm working on Blood Angels for my son and love how the new Lost Brotherhood detachment gives Sisters the needed early threat, though I'd imagine problems after the battle!
Automatically Appended Next Post: How would this work?
Castellans with mostly sisters. Celestine, Coteaze,
2-3 BSS 2x Melta Doms
2x Exorcists
With AM 1 Command Squad
2x Infantry Platoon
3x Wyvern
The idea is that the sisters take the midfield and the guard bubble wrap the artillery units with the chance to come back if they get wiped out.
Since the sisters artefacts are found in both the Adepta Sororitas and Imperial Agents codex, could you effectively take two litanies of faith? One from each book?
You can normally only take one of each relic from a book, but what if they are from two books?
Since the sisters artefacts are found in both the Adepta Sororitas and Imperial Agents codex, could you effectively take two litanies of faith? One from each book?
You can normally only take one of each relic from a book, but what if they are from two books?
Maybe? But I'd think you'd need a detachment from C:AS and a separate detachment from C:IA. But both relic lists have the same name. It seems really gamey in any case, so I wouldn't do it and I'd probably look at you funny if I was playing against you.
Automatically Appended Next Post: How would this work?
Castellans with mostly sisters. Celestine, Coteaze,
2-3 BSS 2x Melta Doms
2x Exorcists
With AM 1 Command Squad
2x Infantry Platoon
3x Wyvern
The idea is that the sisters take the midfield and the guard bubble wrap the artillery units with the chance to come back if they get wiped out.
I am also going for a list like this, but I am making room for a grey knight interceptor squad from the Daemonhunter detachment.
They lose Ob Sec, however they can run with Celestine.
They effectively:
1. Provide 1 more warp charge
2. Boost Celestine to str 7 and the geminaes to str 5 with hammerhand
3. Give 3 thunderhammer attacks at str 10 on the charg (on the justicar).
4. Can cast banishment and also force to deal with tough daemon units
5. Can use a 36" move to go contest or grab a far off objective.
6. Give another template, str 6 for the incinerator
7. Saintly blessings can also grant Celestine and the unit crusader and fleet for the turn where you need that critical charge.
Servant of Dante wrote: Hello! I'm new here, I suppose. If you're over on the B&C I'm under the same username (I'm pretty active and . . . very puritanical). I didn't sign up here before because, well, there's no dedicated Sisters subforum. Depending on how this goes, I might post here (probably mostly in this thread) regularly.
Spoiler:
I've only been playing 40K for about 3 and a half years, starting with Blood Angels (hence the username). I picked up Sisters about a year and a half ago, and I've been infatuated ever since. I have what I consider a pretty solid grasp on the Ministorum's fluff, especially where it pertains to the Sororitas, though my headcanon has its quirks. Overall, it's centered on the 2E Sisters codex, Codex: Witch Hunters, and the Liber Sororitas from White Dwarf 294.
I have a custom Order Minoris, the Order of the Glorious Reprisal, but recently I fancy myself an Order of the Valorous Heart player. Big Saint Lucia fan. Don't get me started on the Repentia models (suffice it to say I have no problem with the Repentia's fluff, just their models).
I have a rather substantial write up about the Order of the Glorious Reprisal, but for now, here's a list. It's supposed to be a fluffy detachment from an Order of the Valorous Heart Commandery. Not the kind of Commandery that is based out of a subsidiary Convent, it's just a group of Sisters numbering more than a Mission (which I headcanonically cap at about 50ish Sisters Militant) and less than a Preceptory (so less than 200).
MINISTORUM DELEGATION Ministorum Priest (Laspistol, Chainsword) 25 Small BSS
Heavy Support Exorcist (Dozer Blade) 130
Retributor Squad [5] (Heavy Flamer x4, Veteran Superior, Immolator(TL Multi-Melta) ) 175
Obviously this isn't super optimized. Heres some reasons why:
I can't fluffly justify more than 1 Exorcist at 1500 points (though I own 3 of course)
I bought one of the old VH banners GW used to make off eBay, so I'm going to use that, and I don't want to put the unit in a transport since the banner doesn't do anything while in a vehicle, so that's how I settled on HB for that unit.
The Power Maul is mostly there because I want to use the model in that unit.
The Exorcist has a Dozer Blade so it can be WYSIWYG I always run Seraphim, in fact, I'm kinda upset I don't have all 10 including the PS/PP Superior in this list.
I'm using one of the Plasma Pistol/Chainsword Superiors for Luxia, hence the strange loadout.
I don't run allies (well, I have a hereticus Inquisitor I might use, but not as a psyker)
I prefer to stick to the units that are actually Sororitas (priests get a bye for being so good)
I played a casual tournament a few weeks back. It was 1850 and I only had 32 infantry models in my list. It was not fun to play. I've realized I don't like too much MSU. Blob squads are lots of fun!
Anyway, comments are welcome. I have a bunch of homebrew rules I can share, but I suppose all that has to go in a different forum here on dakkadakka.
Welcome! Servant of Dante!
Sisters are my 3rd army after Necrons and Orks. I'm building them as SMU because it is different that the playstyle of my other armies. I'm working on Blood Angels for my son and love how the new Lost Brotherhood detachment gives Sisters the needed early threat, though I'd imagine problems after the battle!
Automatically Appended Next Post: How would this work?
Castellans with mostly sisters. Celestine, Coteaze,
2-3 BSS 2x Melta Doms
2x Exorcists
With AM 1 Command Squad
2x Infantry Platoon
3x Wyvern
The idea is that the sisters take the midfield and the guard bubble wrap the artillery units with the chance to come back if they get wiped out.
Guard are the one army I wouldn't have an issue allying with my Sisters. It's just so fluffy, and they generally do different things so I think they don't step on each others toes too much. I think that list looks pretty good, but I'm not overly familiar with IG. But you will get your BSSs back on a 5+, so that's cool.
But isn't Ctoeaze a psyker? Burn in shame! (I don't want to use the filthy xeno emoticons)
pretre wrote:Okay, so the question is, for this event, what are the rulings on the following:
- Bikes as troops if you take a SM character on a bike
- Pods as regenning troops. Can they deep strike?
Because depending on those answers, my feedback is different.
Are you married to the Raptor Wing?
1) Yes
2) Assume yes for now
Not married to the raptor wing at all
In that case! Either take more pods or more bikes. Celestine with a Command Squad on bikes is hilarious. If you take a bike for your Libby, he will have to scoot up to catch up with the Grav Cents, but it still works and your bikes regen. If you can take more Tac Pods, do so, regenning drop pods is hilarious. Basically, I would drop the Raptor wing and use those points to get a Command Squad, a Separate formation Hereticus with 3 Skulls and as many bikes/drop pod tacs as you can fit in. You lose a little punch, but you gain a lot of obsec scoring the regen and your bikes can take specials and regen.
Since the sisters artefacts are found in both the Adepta Sororitas and Imperial Agents codex, could you effectively take two litanies of faith? One from each book?
You can normally only take one of each relic from a book, but what if they are from two books?
Heavy Support Exorcist (Dozer Blade) 130
Retributor Squad [5] (Heavy Flamer x4, Veteran Superior, Immolator(TL Multi-Melta) ) 175
Obviously this isn't super optimized. Heres some reasons why:
I can't fluffly justify more than 1 Exorcist at 1500 points (though I own 3 of course)
I bought one of the old VH banners GW used to make off eBay, so I'm going to use that, and I don't want to put the unit in a transport since the banner doesn't do anything while in a vehicle, so that's how I settled on HB for that unit.
The Power Maul is mostly there because I want to use the model in that unit.
The Exorcist has a Dozer Blade so it can be WYSIWYG I always run Seraphim, in fact, I'm kinda upset I don't have all 10 including the PS/PP Superior in this list.
I'm using one of the Plasma Pistol/Chainsword Superiors for Luxia, hence the strange loadout.
I don't run allies (well, I have a hereticus Inquisitor I might use, but not as a psyker)
I prefer to stick to the units that are actually Sororitas (priests get a bye for being so good)
I played a casual tournament a few weeks back. It was 1850 and I only had 32 infantry models in my list. It was not fun to play. I've realized I don't like too much MSU. Blob squads are lots of fun!
Anyway, comments are welcome. I have a bunch of homebrew rules I can share, but I suppose all that has to go in a different forum here on dakkadakka.
You don't need a Ministorum Delegation. You can just take C:AS Priests without taking a slot in your cad. How married are you to the list? Right now, it is very battle forcey. If you're cool with just a fluffy list, it is fine. If you're looking to make it more competitive, let us know and we can help you out.
Sorry yeah I meant C:IA. I'd be happy to hear your suggestions, but I prefer to make as competitive of a list as I can within my personal restrictions (no allies for starters). Basically, give suggestions but I reserve the right to explain why I won't use them
Automatically Appended Next Post: I am actually interested in advice from a new group of players, I was just saying there are some things I won't sacrifice for a more competitive list. Please let me know what you would change (but if anyone even breaths the words "allied psyker" . . . they will burn).
Maybe I should be playing parking lot guard, but I'm trying to wrap my head around the dozer blade on the exorcist. I almost always include the dozer blade on rhinos, etc, but isn't the exorcist largely immobile? Can't see why to spend the 5 points there unless it is just a point dump.
Heavy Support
Exorcist (C:IA) (Dozer Blade) 130
Retributor Squad [5] (C:AS) (Heavy Flamer x4, Veteran Superior, Repressor ) 180
7 Retributors (C:AS) with 4 HB and Simulacrum (Formerly Command Squad) - 139
Fort
Bastion - 75
1849
Well, I'm not a huge fan of the new Celestine. Too much of a Warp Tainted Heretic for my tastes I will run her at some point, but this is not that list.
The Command Squad and the Canoness are kinda the point of the list. I'm keeping them.
I'm really not a fan of mixing weapon types in BSSs, and when is the large BSS ever going to get a chance to fire flame weapons? I've run a BSS of 20 models with 2 flamers, and they almost never fire at all, since they have to be at the front to do so and you can't keep them at the front if you want them to stay alive until they're in range . . .
I . . . don't actually own any Repressors, and I don't think I'm up to converting any Also, I really will miss my Seraphim if I'm not running them
Hum. Well, I suppose this doesn't look like my kind of list. I don't know how much I'd enjoy running it. Thanks for the response in any case!
Anpu-adom wrote:Maybe I should be playing parking lot guard, but I'm trying to wrap my head around the dozer blade on the exorcist. I almost always include the dozer blade on rhinos, etc, but isn't the exorcist largely immobile? Can't see why to spend the 5 points there unless it is just a point dump.
I take it when I can to be WYSIWIG. No, it's really not the best use of points
Servant of Dante wrote: Well, I'm not a huge fan of the new Celestine. Too much of a Warp Tainted Heretic for my tastes I will run her at some point, but this is not that list.
The Command Squad and the Canoness are kinda the point of the list. I'm keeping them.
I'm really not a fan of mixing weapon types in BSSs, and when is the large BSS ever going to get a chance to fire flame weapons? I've run a BSS of 20 models with 2 flamers, and they almost never fire at all, since they have to be at the front to do so and you can't keep them at the front if you want them to stay alive until they're in range . . .
I . . . don't actually own any Repressors, and I don't think I'm up to converting any Also, I really will miss my Seraphim if I'm not running them
Hum. Well, I suppose this doesn't look like my kind of list. I don't know how much I'd enjoy running it. Thanks for the response in any case!
So take the old celestine. She's kind of better than every way than the Canoness. and the retributors are better than the command squad as well.
The BSS have the flamers for overwatch.
Either way, you asked for feedback to make it more competitive.
PanzerLeader wrote: So what do you guys think of this for a one off event? I'd like to grow the Sisters part of it but am unsure how to best do it.
Castellan Detachment
Coteaz
Level 2 Libby, Hunters Eye
3x 5 scouts in storms with multi-melta, combi-grav
5 Tacs in a Pod, melta gun
3x 5 dominions, 4 meltas, condemnor boltgun, Rhino
2x Wyverns
3 grav cents, omniscope
FA Pod
Raptor Wing
Landspeeder Typhoon
2x Storm Talon with Skyhammers
Comes out to 1850 on the nose and has 6 ignore cover units and 6 scouting units base + plus a pod. With Coteaz for seize protection, it has the makings of a nasty alpha strike.
I like it... but how does this interact with death stars... whats the plan vs bark bark?
Servant of Dante wrote: Well, I'm not a huge fan of the new Celestine. Too much of a Warp Tainted Heretic for my tastes
Heresy! Saint-Celestine is a shining beacon of light against the evils of the warp. She is the power of the emperor made manifest!
I respectfully disagree. In my mind the warp is inherently tainted (heresy-wise) so anything that is in any way connected to the warp (which with the new fluff Celestine definitely is) is at the very best sketchy (like Navigators and Astropaths). The one thing I give a pass to are visions from the Emperor. Those most likely pass through the warp, but eh.
So, in short, I would call you the heretic, for letting yourself be blinded by the trickery of the immaterium
But preferences vary. You certainly have the opinion more supported by fluff.
Anpu-adom wrote: Maybe I should be playing parking lot guard, but I'm trying to wrap my head around the dozer blade on the exorcist. I almost always include the dozer blade on rhinos, etc, but isn't the exorcist largely immobile? Can't see why to spend the 5 points there unless it is just a point dump.
I think in all the time I have played my Exorcists have moved a handful of times...and that was only when their weapons were destroyed.
Anpu-adom wrote: Maybe I should be playing parking lot guard, but I'm trying to wrap my head around the dozer blade on the exorcist. I almost always include the dozer blade on rhinos, etc, but isn't the exorcist largely immobile? Can't see why to spend the 5 points there unless it is just a point dump.
I think in all the time I have played my Exorcists have moved a handful of times...and that was only when their weapons were destroyed.
Cheers,
CB
Interesting. My exorcists move all the time so I can try to sneak them up the flanks and take advantage of that 48" range to look for side shots.
Anpu-adom wrote: Maybe I should be playing parking lot guard, but I'm trying to wrap my head around the dozer blade on the exorcist. I almost always include the dozer blade on rhinos, etc, but isn't the exorcist largely immobile? Can't see why to spend the 5 points there unless it is just a point dump.
I think in all the time I have played my Exorcists have moved a handful of times...and that was only when their weapons were destroyed.
Cheers,
CB
I like to tank shock with em if things get close. Tank shock 6 inches and blast em.
I like to tank shock with em if things get close. Tank shock 6 inches and blast em.
Never thought of that tactic...I see my two Exorcists as the biggest target to draw fire from my opponent. My foe will spend ordinance like water to take them down...meanwhile my Rhino bourn Sisters get another turn closer and the Dominion Squads start coming in on the flanks.
My meta has evolved to 2+ cover Taus and MSU battle companies spamming grav-cannons.
I've had a few games of 4 Exorcists only rolling 1 and 2s for missiles, the entire game, and my oponents have wisened up. They just ignore them now.
1d6 is so unreliable it's scaring me away. Cast prescience to make sure the missiles hit only to roll a "1" for shots and it'll give anyone accross the table from you a good chuckle.
My meta has evolved to 2+ cover Taus and MSU battle companies spamming grav-cannons.
I've had a few games of 4 Exorcists only rolling 1 and 2s for missiles, the entire game, and my oponents have wisened up. They just ignore them now.
1d6 is so unreliable it's scaring me away. Cast prescience to make sure the missiles hit only to roll a "1" for shots and it'll give anyone accross the table from you a good chuckle.
Yes, another opportunity missed in Imperial Agents. Give Exorcists the ability to be taken in a squadron and the following rule:
"Guided by the Emperor - Any model in a unit of three Exorcists may reroll the d6 when determining the number of shots fired."
Problem fixed, and makes those Exorcists priority #1 on the table.
I'm in the same boat. Exorcists are so good but so unreliable. I often find myself mid game, wondering what I could have better spent points on. They are almost always the first thing to die, and in a tourney every opponent has the ability to wipe them off the board on turn 1
I'm working on spending the last few points on a 2k list for this weekend. The game is against a Tyranid horde with a heavy focus on little bugs, so I'm maxing out bolters and flamers. We also decided to forego flyers on his side and AV13 on mine, so it really comes down to a battle of bodies and who can wash the other guy off the objectives. We agreed to this degree of list tailoring for the sake of the narrative. I'm open to any suggestions within the "bugs vs. bolters" framework, and I'm pretty set on taking the Castellans formation for a test drive:
In general, I'm hoping that the bonus re-rolls from Celestine and the formation, ObSec from Coteaz, and the occasional respawning Troop unit gives me staying power and the ability to pursue and contest objectives. I'll send meltas and plasmas after his bigger bugs and focus flamers and bolters on the gribblies. If I can keep my army on the table, deny him objectives, and weather his respawning hordes, I might be able to make it on VPs.
As it is I have a few points left. Should I buy flamer/grenade launcher for the Scion Command, an extra laud hailer, or a combi-flamer for the bigger BSS?
I've got models left to play with squad numbers, but no more Sisters specials or heavies. I could downsize Seraphs or Rets or strip off simulacra or laud hailer in exchange for a bigger blob, more priests, or some wargear, but I've found 7 to be a resilient number for those squads.
MacPhail wrote: I'm working on spending the last few points on a 2k list for this weekend. The game is against a Tyranid horde with a heavy focus on little bugs, so I'm maxing out bolters and flamers. We also decided to forego flyers on his side and AV13 on mine, so it really comes down to a battle of bodies and who can wash the other guy off the objectives. We agreed to this degree of list tailoring for the sake of the narrative. I'm open to any suggestions within the "bugs vs. bolters" framework, and I'm pretty set on taking the Castellans formation for a test drive:
In general, I'm hoping that the bonus re-rolls from Celestine and the formation, ObSec from Coteaz, and the occasional respawning Troop unit gives me staying power and the ability to pursue and contest objectives. I'll send meltas and plasmas after his bigger bugs and focus flamers and bolters on the gribblies. If I can keep my army on the table, deny him objectives, and weather his respawning hordes, I might be able to make it on VPs.
As it is I have a few points left. Should I buy flamer/grenade launcher for the Scion Command, an extra laud hailer, or a combi-flamer for the bigger BSS?
I've got models left to play with squad numbers, but no more Sisters specials or heavies. I could downsize Seraphs or Rets or strip off simulacra or laud hailer in exchange for a bigger blob, more priests, or some wargear, but I've found 7 to be a resilient number for those squads.
Open to ideas. Thanks!
What's up with all the units without transports? The scions can't deep strike if they respawn and the rest walking just seems like a bad idea.
I missed that rule about deep striking... I thought they just went into reserves. Is that part of the formation rules? The lack of transports is just because I know he's coming to me with a gazillion gaunts, and I only own so many hulls.
MacPhail wrote: I missed that rule about deep striking... I thought they just went into reserves. Is that part of the formation rules? The lack of transports is just because I know he's coming to me with a gazillion gaunts, and I only own so many hulls.
Units that "respawn" from Flock to the Front Line go into Ongoing Reserves, which only lets them walk on from your table edge. They do arrive automatically on your next turn, though, so at least you don't have to roll for them. But they're gonna be pretty unhappy walking on from your home edge unless your opponent is all up in your business.
MacPhail wrote: I missed that rule about deep striking... I thought they just went into reserves. Is that part of the formation rules? The lack of transports is just because I know he's coming to me with a gazillion gaunts, and I only own so many hulls.
Units that "respawn" from Flock to the Front Line go into Ongoing Reserves, which only lets them walk on from your table edge. They do arrive automatically on your next turn, though, so at least you don't have to roll for them. But they're gonna be pretty unhappy walking on from your home edge unless your opponent is all up in your business.
Got it... thanks for clarifying. Those guys are substantially less appealing now.
MacPhail wrote: I missed that rule about deep striking... I thought they just went into reserves. Is that part of the formation rules? The lack of transports is just because I know he's coming to me with a gazillion gaunts, and I only own so many hulls.
Units that "respawn" from Flock to the Front Line go into Ongoing Reserves, which only lets them walk on from your table edge. They do arrive automatically on your next turn, though, so at least you don't have to roll for them. But they're gonna be pretty unhappy walking on from your home edge unless your opponent is all up in your business.
Got it... thanks for clarifying. Those guys are substantially less appealing now.
If a regular game, I run them all forward and ignore my backline, then bring the resurrected troops in late-game to hold what objectives are needed.
MacPhail wrote: Got it... thanks for clarifying. Those guys are substantially less appealing now.
No problem. I don't think it makes them totally useless... I mean they still come back to the table with their special weapons and have Move Through Cover, so with a Run move or two they can still be in position to affect the game. The Melta ones will probably be a little sad, but with a Hot-shot Volley Gun or two you can make them into a decent little fire support unit once they come back.
If I ever get a chance to play Castellans, I'm going to try out a couple squads riding in Taurox Primes. Hopefully the respawn mechanic will help take the edge off losing those fragile, expensive things. Rolling back on the table with a Taurox missile launcher or battle cannon & twin-linked autocannon seems fun, though. Probably not nearly as efficient as Immolators, but quite fun.
So if I mount troops in transports as Castellans, how do they come back with ongoing reserves? Do I roll sperately? Does a units own transport need to be killed, or do I just need to have an extra model?
MacPhail wrote: So if I mount troops in transports as Castellans, how do they come back with ongoing reserves? Do I roll sperately? Does a units own transport need to be killed, or do I just need to have an extra model?
That is one of the questions that needs to be FAQ'ed.
MacPhail wrote: I missed that rule about deep striking... I thought they just went into reserves. Is that part of the formation rules?
Units that "respawn" from Flock to the Front Line go into Ongoing Reserves, which only lets them walk on from your table edge. They do arrive automatically on your next turn, though, so at least you don't have to roll for them. But they're gonna be pretty unhappy walking on from your home edge unless your opponent is all up in your business.
Edit: Added quote for clarity.
How sure are we about walking on? Has it been FAQed? As I reread it, they meet the two requirements: have the deep strike rule and start the game in reserve. From there, they become ongoing reserves: reenter play on the next turn, but otherwise follow rules for reserves. Those say: roll for the arrival of all deep striking units as described in the rules for reserves (where the ongoing reserves rules say not to roll, just enter play) and then deploy by scattering and clustering as usual. I don't see where ongoing reserves with the deep strike rule are different than start of game deep strikers.
Yes, you can do that. The real winner for Castellans are fast troops or vehicles. If your TO agrees with the mounted assault ruling, bikes are the best.
pretre wrote: Yes, you can do that. The real winner for Castellans are fast troops or vehicles. If your TO agrees with the mounted assault ruling, bikes are the best.
Agreed... I'm eventually going to pair White Scars with Sisters and Celestine in a Castellans list. Which mounted assault ruling is up in the air?
Hey Boyz!
Great thread, I'm working my way through it, currently at page 20ish. Lots of good advice so far, but I thought I pop in to ask anyway. I'm making a 1850pts list from my old models so I can play while I'm building my new army. I'd just like some pointers on what specific upgrades to take. Anyway, heres my list (organised by squad).
Pretty self explainitory, 1 priest in each squad. The Hvy Bolter squad camps at the defense line and mans the cannon.
I've got 50ish points to play with but I'm stuck on the exactly on what upgrades to take, especially on the Priests and Sister Superiors. Is the Veteran Sister upgrade worth it? If so should I kit her out for CC? Are storm bolters on Sister Superiors a good idea for extra dakka? Maybe give the Priests meltabombs for that emergency hail mary dreadnaught kill?
Anyway, pointers and advice would be appreciated. How do you equip your Priests and Superiors?
MacPhail wrote: How sure are we about walking on? Has it been FAQed? As I reread it, they meet the two requirements: have the deep strike rule and start the game in reserve.
Actually, now that I've gone and re-read it, I think you're correct. They can arrive via Deep Strike if they wish, since they meet all the requirements.
I wouldn't expect that ruling to survive a round of FAQs, though. But I have a tendency to err on the side of caution when it comes to free units doing cool stuff
I've got 50ish points to play with but I'm stuck on the exactly on what upgrades to take, especially on the Priests and Sister Superiors. Is the Veteran Sister upgrade worth it? If so should I kit her out for CC? Are storm bolters on Sister Superiors a good idea for extra dakka? Maybe give the Priests meltabombs for that emergency hail mary dreadnaught kill?
Anyway, pointers and advice would be appreciated. How do you equip your Priests and Superiors?
Cheers from the Jakman
So, yeah, you have a lot of extra points tied up in extra bodies and extra wargear. Are you looking at making this competitive or just a for lols list?
As for your priest question, I put them in naked or with a power maul depending on how many I have in the list.
I've got 50ish points to play with but I'm stuck on the exactly on what upgrades to take, especially on the Priests and Sister Superiors. Is the Veteran Sister upgrade worth it? If so should I kit her out for CC? Are storm bolters on Sister Superiors a good idea for extra dakka? Maybe give the Priests meltabombs for that emergency hail mary dreadnaught kill?
Anyway, pointers and advice would be appreciated. How do you equip your Priests and Superiors?
Cheers from the Jakman
So, yeah, you have a lot of extra points tied up in extra bodies and extra wargear. Are you looking at making this competitive or just a for lols list?
As for your priest question, I put them in naked or with a power maul depending on how many I have in the list.
I'm kinda trying to toe the line with competetiveness. Not planning on taking this to tournaments, but I want it to be resonably competetive without going down the min/max ultra cheese route. I'm mainly playing at my FLGS, so I dont want to be THAT GUY.
I like the idea of squads that are as large as I can fit. In my experience min/maxed squads evaporate pretty quick and I want my sisters to have some staying power. Plus, vehicle wise, I have 4 Rhinos, 2 Immos, and 3 Exorcists and I'm not planning on buying any more sisters stuff. Focusing on getting my new army up and running.
At the moment I'm leaning towards giving the blob squad a VSS with maul and Priest with maul so they have a bit more oompf in CC. Giving the Rhino squads Superiors with combi flamers and naked Priests. And the Hvy Bolter squad a Superior with Storm Bolter and a naked priest.
Also, I read a post from early in this thread about taking combi meltas on dominion squads. Guy was saying 4 meltas and the TLMM usually gets the job done and the combi is overkill. Thoughts on this?
the_Jakman wrote: I'm kinda trying to toe the line with competetiveness. Not planning on taking this to tournaments, but I want it to be resonably competetive without going down the min/max ultra cheese route. I'm mainly playing at my FLGS, so I dont want to be THAT GUY.
I like the idea of squads that are as large as I can fit. In my experience min/maxed squads evaporate pretty quick and I want my sisters to have some staying power. Plus, vehicle wise, I have 4 Rhinos, 2 Immos, and 3 Exorcists and I'm not planning on buying any more sisters stuff. Focusing on getting my new army up and running.
At the moment I'm leaning towards giving the blob squad a VSS with maul and Priest with maul so they have a bit more oompf in CC. Giving the Rhino squads Superiors with combi flamers and naked Priests. And the Hvy Bolter squad a Superior with Storm Bolter and a naked priest.
Also, I read a post from early in this thread about taking combi meltas on dominion squads. Guy was saying 4 meltas and the TLMM usually gets the job done and the combi is overkill. Thoughts on this?
Cheers for the reply bro.
You're playing SOB. It is very unlikely that anything you can bring will make you THAT guy.
You know what the difference is between 9 sisters and 5 sisters from a survivability standpoint? 48 points. They are both going to die, but one costs you 48 more points. Sisters are best cheap and in small squads, unless you want a blob and are going to give them someone to stand at the front and take the hits. I HIGHLY recommend you take the new celestine, if you are going to blob up.
Hi all, I've lurked for a long time, and I learned a massive amount from this thread when coming back from my 40k hiatus over 4th and 5th edition. So thank you all for that!
Next month we're starting an ETC league locally, with 18 players, each playing 8 games in swiss pairings before top 8 play off. It's no holds barred so I'm expecting all the nastiest stuff possible.
The restrictions are fairly standard for ETC, no forgeworld allowed so no worries about Skathach or R&H barrage (Though they're allowing Repressors), 1850, 4 detachment max (the mega detachments count as 2).
Mission-wise, there are 8 missions - each takes into account killpoints, 24 card deck, Eternal War objectives and your standard slay the warlord etc.
Therefore, since I usually play full MSU sisters, I figured I'd be giving over a free 6vp every game, and I couldn't go full deathstar or I'd be screwed on the objectives. I've instead gone for a sort of half'n'half.
Basically I'll be running a star of the wolves, celestine, priest, and the conclave, while the sisters clear up objectives and doms clear heavy hitters who might stomp up the star. Late game I can split up to cover objectives for the endgame primaries.
I've playtested this once against a screamer heavy demonic incursion list and I made a few key errors but I think the theory is working. Celestine tanking for the star with Veil of Time basically meant it got to combat unharmed, even though it lacked Azrael for the 4++ / 5+++ on the dogs.
I'm wondering though:
Castellans. It would take me to the four detachment max, and I could keep obsec by adding Coteaz. Do you think it's worth dropping the Immos to rhinos and dropping the bones of Osrak to take Coteaz and change the CAD to a Castellans. Two extra rolls for hammerhand or sanctuary couldn't hurt either!
Post up the castellans version and I'll compare. I'm still pending my first Cast game, but I really like the idea. This looks really solid right now though.
Makes me want to convert up Arco flagellants on 40mm bases to use as Wolfkin.
pretre wrote: Post up the castellans version and I'll compare. I'm still pending my first Cast game, but I really like the idea. This looks really solid right now though.
Makes me want to convert up Arco flagellants on 40mm bases to use as Wolfkin.
Flagellants is a great idea to use as the wolves! Would keep the theme a lot cleaner, for sure.
The Castellans version of the list is thus - I lose 4 TLMM's, and the ability to reroll failed powers, but I can come back from ongoing reserves on the BSS and get 2 more rolls on Sanctic for Sanctuary/Hammerhand, meaning my Libs can fish for other spells that might be useful.
Castellans:
the_Jakman wrote: I'm kinda trying to toe the line with competetiveness. Not planning on taking this to tournaments, but I want it to be resonably competetive without going down the min/max ultra cheese route. I'm mainly playing at my FLGS, so I dont want to be THAT GUY.
I like the idea of squads that are as large as I can fit. In my experience min/maxed squads evaporate pretty quick and I want my sisters to have some staying power. Plus, vehicle wise, I have 4 Rhinos, 2 Immos, and 3 Exorcists and I'm not planning on buying any more sisters stuff. Focusing on getting my new army up and running.
At the moment I'm leaning towards giving the blob squad a VSS with maul and Priest with maul so they have a bit more oompf in CC. Giving the Rhino squads Superiors with combi flamers and naked Priests. And the Hvy Bolter squad a Superior with Storm Bolter and a naked priest.
Also, I read a post from early in this thread about taking combi meltas on dominion squads. Guy was saying 4 meltas and the TLMM usually gets the job done and the combi is overkill. Thoughts on this?
Cheers for the reply bro.
You're playing SOB. It is very unlikely that anything you can bring will make you THAT guy.
You know what the difference is between 9 sisters and 5 sisters from a survivability standpoint? 48 points. They are both going to die, but one costs you 48 more points. Sisters are best cheap and in small squads, unless you want a blob and are going to give them someone to stand at the front and take the hits. I HIGHLY recommend you take the new celestine, if you are going to blob up.
If I drop the 9 sisters squads to 5, I can fit another 5 sisters and priest in another rhino. You think I should go this route?
If you drop the two sisters to 5, that's 96 points.
If you drop the Simularcrums from the small BSS in rides, that's another 20. Put the two extra priests into the Blob. I would drop Jacobus at that point and get Celestine with Geminae. Leaves you 16 points for other stuff.
Personally, I would swap the 6 sister squad out for a Ret squad with HB and put them in a bastion rather than an ADL.
the_Jakman wrote: Hey Boyz!
Great thread, I'm working my way through it, currently at page 20ish. Lots of good advice so far, but I thought I pop in to ask anyway. I'm making a 1850pts list from my old models so I can play while I'm building my new army. I'd just like some pointers on what specific upgrades to take. Anyway, heres my list (organised by squad).
Pretty self explainitory, 1 priest in each squad. The Hvy Bolter squad camps at the defense line and mans the cannon.
I've got 50ish points to play with but I'm stuck on the exactly on what upgrades to take, especially on the Priests and Sister Superiors. Is the Veteran Sister upgrade worth it? If so should I kit her out for CC? Are storm bolters on Sister Superiors a good idea for extra dakka? Maybe give the Priests meltabombs for that emergency hail mary dreadnaught kill?
Anyway, pointers and advice would be appreciated. How do you equip your Priests and Superiors?
Cheers from the Jakman
This is a lot like the list I play, so... a few comments. I'd put the laud hailers on the BSS Rhinos instead... they're less juicy targets and less exposed, but you should still be able to keep the Doms in their bubble. The Jacoblob is great if you can maneuver them, but the bolter squad's priest might fit there, maybe with a maul, better than where you've got it. I'd give the bolter squad a third storm bolter instead of the HB to restore mobility and unify ranges, but use them for the same camping task. I know people are down on storm bolters, but I love the volume of fire from a tiny 3 storm bolter unit. I've had the best luck with the quad gun with either a stock Canoness or Coteaz. I don't upgrade my Vets beyond a combi weapon or melta bomb, and only when I have the points. I have a lot of fun with a Rhino full of heavy flamer Rets, and double flamers in BSS units get better coverage, which it looks like you could do with some rearranging.
That's all little stuff, though... looks like a solid list.
I'm wondering though:
Castellans. It would take me to the four detachment max, and I could keep obsec by adding Coteaz. Do you think it's worth dropping the Immos to rhinos and dropping the bones of Osrak to take Coteaz and change the CAD to a Castellans. Two extra rolls for hammerhand or sanctuary couldn't hurt either!
Cheers
I don't have enough experience with mixed armies like your list to offer much, but I will give Sisters-based Castellans with Coteaz a thumbs-up. Giving that much cheap power armor ObSec, a little Hatred to help them go down fighting, and a chance for some of them to come back for a second round is pretty effective.
Played my first games against a soulburst list this weekend.
I brought a Castellan:
Celestine
Coteaz
BSS x 5 - Immolator, Melta, Flamer
BSS x 5 - Immolator, Melta, Flamer
BSS x 5 - Immolator, Melta, Flamer
Infantry Platoon Command - Chimaera, Flamers x 4
Infantry Platoon Squad - Lascannon Heavy Weapons team
Infantry Platoon Squad - Lascannon Heavy Weapons team
Dominions x 5 - Repressor, Meltaguns x 4
Dominions x 5 - Repressor, Meltaguns x 4
Wyvern Battery
Wyvern Battery
Wyvern Battery
Daemonhunter Strike force:
Interceptors x 5 - Incinerator, Halberds x 3, Daemonhammer
Inquisitorial Detachments
Greyfax
Hereticus Inquisitor - Servo Skulls x 3.
I do not have my opponents list, but it consisted of several jet bikes (eldar and dark eldar), 2 squads of harlequins in star weavers, 2 squads of banshees in DE raiders. A big squad of Wrathguard with an Archon that couldnt scatter when deepstriking and a formation of war walkers that also did not scatter when arriving from deep strike reserve
Few things I learned:
-The army is brutal. He was in my face turn 1 and the moment I would wreck up a transport, he'd have harlequins or banshees assault into me with the subsequent soulburst.
-Do not ever think you have the upper hand. After turn two, I had several of his units dead. Until he deepstriked wraithguards with D Flamers by two wyerns. They died and the resulting soulburst allowed him to kill off the entire squad of grey knights that was there to counter attack from my lines. I went from having a decisive upper hand to fighting an uphill battle in a single turn of his.
-Your order of activation is super important. If there's a unit you're counting on for doing something important, do not try to get the job done with other units first. If you give your opponent a soulburst, your unit may very well end up tied up or dead.
-Realizing I forgot to roll for my warlord trait at the end of the game.. when I have two models that get warlord traits is not a good thing. That was a dumb mistake on my part.
I like the list I was playing so far, but I'll be making a few changes nonetheless.
Remove the infantry platoon and greyfax. Add in two squads of militarum tempestus with plasmaguns or meltaguns, not sure yet. Add in a 4th wyvern (these tanks are awesome) and finally a small seraphim squad with 2 hand flamers.
Against a list that doesnt scout or inflitrates the servo-skulls serve little purpose so I figured I might as well give myself options and position them close to objectives where I could safely deepstrike Obs Sec units that can dish out some dmg themselves.
Voldrak wrote: I like the list I was playing so far, but I'll be making a few changes nonetheless.
Remove the infantry platoon and greyfax. Add in two squads of militarum tempestus with plasmaguns or meltaguns, not sure yet. Add in a 4th wyvern (these tanks are awesome) and finally a small seraphim squad with 2 hand flamers.
Against a list that doesnt scout or inflitrates the servo-skulls serve little purpose so I figured I might as well give myself options and position them close to objectives where I could safely deepstrike Obs Sec units that can dish out some dmg themselves.
I took Scions for a spin in the game I just played against an Tyranid Endless Swarm. I think they're a great adjunct to Sisters with their low cost, range of armaments, and ability to deep strike into terrain. I took one with 2 plasma, one with 2 melta, and a command with flamer and grenade launcher (mostly because of the models I had) to try out some orders.
The plasma squad was great. I dropped them onto a flank where they snuffed a tyranid warrior unit, removing synapse for long enough for me to break a unit of gaunts with a BSS unit backed by a priest. The way the cards fell, breaking that unit denied my opponent's rush toward an objective in my deployment zone, and the Scions grabbed two more in his deployment zone before getting killed. They didn't make the roll to cycle back again, but they'd earned their points already.
My melta Scions showed up a round later and dropped cleanly behind another tyranid warrior unit and brought it down, forcing his HQ to move off and join another unit. They got shot off the table, made their roll, and came back on the following turn. They nearly scattered off the table on their second drop, which hurt both their shooting range and their ability to run after objectives. They didn't score any points, but they took out some more synapse units before dying for good.
I only issued one order from the Command squad to let the plasma unit reroll 1s, but I think I'd have rather had another plasma group. In fact, I think plasma all around would be my preference, even at the cost of orders. If Troops provide terrain-safe deep-striking plasma, Fast brings scouting meltas and deep-striking flamers, Heavy offers long range S8 AP1... Castellans might be a pretty well-rounded force.
I guess I'm veering off of a pure Sisters post here, but Scions may make a regular appearance in my army. Gotta think about mystics vs. servo skulls to guide them down.
I like your point about the laud hailers on Rhinos instead of the Immos. Ovbiously the Dom squads are a big target and they will probs get wasted first. I'll think about doing that. But what I'f I decide to outflank them? Or scout them forward to try and pop a nasty turn 1? I see them easily being out of range of the hailers, especiially if the rhino squads are heading for objectives/targets for thier flamers rather than the Doms target.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
pretre wrote: If you drop the two sisters to 5, that's 96 points.
If you drop the Simularcrums from the small BSS in rides, that's another 20. Put the two extra priests into the Blob. I would drop Jacobus at that point and get Celestine with Geminae. Leaves you 16 points for other stuff.
Personally, I would swap the 6 sister squad out for a Ret squad with HB and put them in a bastion rather than an ADL.
Hey Pretre, thanks for your comment. I get that the new Celestine is a murderbeast, but I'm really trying to minimise the number of things I have to buy to get this army on the tabletop. (This sisters collection if from the Witch Hunters codex). As my list stands, all I have to purchase is a few priests and the ADL as I already have Jacobus.
My reasoning for the Hvy Bolter squad rather than a Ret squad is they're there to hold the home field obj (obj secured) and man the quad. If i take a Ret squad I have to lose an Exorcist, obviously, You think its worth dropping 1/3 of my long range anti tank for 5-6 hvy bolters?
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious about why that's a good idea.
I like your point about the laud hailers on Rhinos instead of the Immos. Ovbiously the Dom squads are a big target and they will probs get wasted first. I'll think about doing that. But what I'f I decide to outflank them? Or scout them forward to try and pop a nasty turn 1? I see them easily being out of range of the hailers, especiially if the rhino squads are heading for objectives/targets for thier flamers rather than the Doms target.
I almost never out flank mine, but rather go up the middle and try to melt something fancy. Short range and slow movement makes it tough to find good targets from the board edge. Doms are a suicide squad in my army, for better or worse. It isn't hard to keep them in range of the laud hailer... the scouting transport is only 6 inches ahead, so if the rhino moves flat out, even Doms that disembarked are in range. I use the carcasses of those Immos to jam my opponents movements and having random leftover Doms in cover gives my Troop transports a chance to do what you're describing.
I also put a laud hailer on an exorcist near the HB Rets when I bring them. Since you mentioned them vs. an Exorcist, one thing to consider is not 1/3 of your firepower, but 1/3 of your AV 13. Against the right army, Rets can kill as many points as an Exorcist, but they'll always be easier to take off the table (except maybe vs. Haywire). Three AV 13 hulls is a tough nut to crack.
MacPhail wrote: I almost never out flank mine, but rather go up the middle and try to melt something fancy. Short range and slow movement makes it tough to find good targets from the board edge. Doms are a suicide squad in my army, for better or worse.
I was also using them a lot as a suicide-scout-in-the-middle kind of unit, but I have to say that now I outflank them a lot(not all the time of course, but very often). Especially if I go second or if I don't have Coteaz seize protection. It's also due to the fact that after a couple games, my opponents get used to deal with scouting meltas.
I usually ensure there will be some targets available by placing objectives near the sides of the table. Chances are my opponent will leave some unit nearby: if it's heavy, then the melta will be of good use, if it's more a light unit, then the repressor's heavy flamer plus the bolter/melta will do work. And with 1/3rd of the ITC mission being in hammer and anvil, outflanking is actually pretty good.
Anyway, I don't know for all of you, but in my little world the biggest issue with dominion is not deployment: it's leadership. I fail a lot of either:
- Ld test because their transport suffered a penetration result (snapshoting melta is not that good)
- pinning test because their transport was destroyed (same)
- failing the AoF test when going for a unit with big cover
It hurts my point budget, but I really think more and more about getting that veteran sister upgrade to go to Ld9 and have a bit less issues (laud hailer is another option, but covering only one case).
Well, I guess that's down to your personal preference. You could:
1. Take a Veteran Superior (10 points) - which increases your success chance on everything from 72% to 83%, but only affecting the one unit
2. Take Laud Hailers (10 points) - which increases your success chance on Acts of Faith from 72% to 93%, potentially benefiting other units.
3. Take a Ministorum Priest (25 points) - which eliminates the morale check problem entirely, and grants some CC bonuses (of dubious value), but does nothing for your Act of Faith.
Of the three options I think the Veteran Superior is actually the least useful. I'd probably stick to the other two depending on which you consider more important.
The priest is yet another easy KP (not good), too expensive per unit and does nothing for either the AoF test or the snapshot Ld test for passengers. It only prevents the pinning test in case the transport is destroyed.
To me it's by far the worst choice here.
ncshooter426 wrote: OK guys... Celestine is a strait up monster now. Damn it feels good.
Wonder twin powers activate! I popped her into her seraphim squad and just went out wrecking gak in a test game.
Just remember you don't get shred.
Yup that is something I fear a lot of people are going to forget and play improperly.
She no longer has act of faith in her rules so if she joins Seraphims, or any other sister squads, they cannot use their Act of Faith. No more shred for her indeed.
RabbitMaster wrote: The priest is yet another easy KP (not good), too expensive per unit and does nothing for either the AoF test or the snapshot Ld test for passengers. It only prevents the pinning test in case the transport is destroyed. To me it's by far the worst choice here.
Ah, true, I had that wrong. Apologies, I'm pretty new to 7th edition. Once you point that out it doesn't seem very worthwhile at all, no.
Voldrak wrote: Yup that is something I fear a lot of people are going to forget and play improperly.
She no longer has act of faith in her rules so if she joins Seraphims, or any other sister squads, they cannot use their Act of Faith. No more shred for her indeed.
I'm glad you pointed this out, too, because I definitely would have forgot. Seems like an oversight, though. Maybe an FAQ will address this, but in the meantime I will make sure not to accidentally Act of Faith her.
On a related note, I'm really curious as to who her "Lord of War" bonus is intended to help... since it specifies Non-Vehicle, what Lords of War can she even affect?
ncshooter426 wrote: OK guys... Celestine is a strait up monster now. Damn it feels good.
Wonder twin powers activate! I popped her into her seraphim squad and just went out wrecking gak in a test game.
Just remember you don't get shred.
Yup that is something I fear a lot of people are going to forget and play improperly.
She no longer has act of faith in her rules so if she joins Seraphims, or any other sister squads, they cannot use their Act of Faith. No more shred for her indeed.
I contend she still has an AoF -- both special scenarios are called Miraculous Intervention, and carry the same base mechanics. There is no logical conclusion why *the* battle sister of them all would not have an AoF, when the mechanics and name are spelled out in each using the same format. By using Miraculous Intervention, you are using an Act of Faith. I'd also contend that even though Shield of Faith isn't called out in the new one, all sisters have it -- thus reinforcing the bad working on GW's part rather than a legitimate mechanics change.
Celestine - 200
Coteaz - 100
Henchies - 6 Acolytes, 3 Servitors with MM, Psyker - 64
3 Grav Cents - 240
Drop Pod - 35
Librarian with Hunter's Eye and Bike - 105
Exorcist - 125
Troops (regen)
5 BSS with M/F in Immo - 135
5 BSS with M/F in Immo - 135
5 BP/Bolter Scouts in Storm - 95
5 BP/Bolter Scouts - 55
3 Bikes with 2 Melta - 83
3 Bikes with 2 Grav - 93
Inquisitorial Representative - Inquisitor with 3 Skulls - 34
1499
grats on the great showing! Thats a very different list than I'm running with castellans. Looks solid with a fair bit of mixing of units. How do you play this list vs things like bark bark star/ironhands star?
Celestine is a beast. Castellans was okay. Hatred was great, I only got one 5+ for regen all day. Went 3-0 though.
Yes, she is. my Local meta hasn't yet caught on how to deal with her effectively yet. ...well, apart from Wulfen. those things kill everything.
Hatred is a nice bonus.
Flock to the front lines, after several games i am still yet to have a single unit respawn. I have been aggressively scouting my dominions who have been taking the brunt of things and the troops just haven't been dying enough to take advantage of the mechanic. I'm not a fan of reserves because it feels like a false economy but i'm considering that outflanking them might actually be the best way to redirect the fire into the troops to capitalize on the respawn mechanic.
pretre wrote: Finally got to play Castellans at a local 1500 (no BB, maelstrom heavy) event.
Celestine is a beast. Castellans was okay. Hatred was great, I only got one 5+ for regen all day. Went 3-0 though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Who has two thumbs and is about to have a bunch of stuff eaten by Jancoran's grotesques?
Spoiler:
Yip. that multicharge was pretty good., I killed the bikes, all but one scout and the Immolator with a single Grotesque charge. Pretty sweet. If I recall I later ganked the Sisters of Battle that were there a round later. Not bad. Those Grotesques ultimately failed that second multicharge. I got greedy on a charge. Had rolled the exact amount i needed to charge into the Centurions and got greedy, re-rolled and missed it. crushing moment but they did work. Second Grotesques missed two. Ah well. It's still fun to see those things rampage like they do. They are shockingly effective.
As for Celesting, I wrote an article about her. She is easy to wound but tough to get through with all those wounds and 2+ armor. I knew I'd be impressed. She EVENTUALLY mulched through a Beastpack, though it took far longer than she wanted as she failed her Hit n Run on the round she wanted it. But in the end she killed it and then kept some Grotesques busy the rest of the game. She was really worth taking and she was really what kind of held the line for the Castellans. She was necessary for that force.
I liked her a lot and cannot wait to field her against the multiverse. There are so many times I would have loved to have something like that to bottle neck an enemy. I found the Repentias very good at it. She is so mobile and can travel i nthe open which makes a difference. Moreso the mobility.
Anywho, It was really interesting to finally get to see her do her thing.
Celestine is a beast. Castellans was okay. Hatred was great, I only got one 5+ for regen all day. Went 3-0 though.
Yes, she is. my Local meta hasn't yet caught on how to deal with her effectively yet. ...well, apart from Wulfen. those things kill everything.
Hatred is a nice bonus.
Flock to the front lines, after several games i am still yet to have a single unit respawn. I have been aggressively scouting my dominions who have been taking the brunt of things and the troops just haven't been dying enough to take advantage of the mechanic. I'm not a fan of reserves because it feels like a false economy but i'm considering that outflanking them might actually be the best way to redirect the fire into the troops to capitalize on the respawn mechanic.
I think if you want to take advantage of that rule... you need to really have a troop heavy list.
example... my 1850 list... made for playing Nova progressive missions.
HQ Coteaz,
HQ hereticus inquisitor with psyocculum, circle of dusvalle, 3 servo skulls, melta bomb (warlord)
HQ sisters command squad with combi condemnors, dozer rhino
Troops 5 sisters, 2 meltas, combi melta, dozer MM immolator
Troops 5 sisters, 2 meltas, combi melta, dozer MM immolator
Troops 5 sisters, 2 meltas, combi melta, dozer MM immolator
Troops 5 sisters, 2 meltas, combi melta, dozer MM immolator
Troops 5 sisters, 2 meltas, combi melta, dozer MM immolator
Troops 5 sisters, multi melta, combi condemnor, dozer rhino
Troops 5 sisters, multi melta, combi condemnor, dozer rhino
Troops 5 tactical marines, grav, combi grav, pod (ultra marines)
Fast 5 seraphim, 2 models with 2 hand flamers
Fast 5 seraphim, 2 models with 2 hand flamers
Heavy thunderfire cannon (ultra marines)
IA detach
HQ malleus inquisitor (Imperial agents)
IA detach
HQ malleus inquisitor (Imperial agents)
If it were me, I'd mix up the BBS units a bit more. Have flamer/heavy flamer squad inside a Heavy Flamer immolator. Genestealer cults is a thing that I worry about and wall of death on units assaulting the Immolators is just great.
Anpu-adom wrote: If it were me, I'd mix up the BBS units a bit more. Have flamer/heavy flamer squad inside a Heavy Flamer immolator. Genestealer cults is a thing that I worry about and wall of death on units assaulting the Immolators is just great.
I agree 100% that they can be a pain in the butt... that said servo skulls stop this turn 1, after that its just the random roll of a 6. Coteaz's i've been expecting you is also a nice counter. I'll probably throw in some heavy flamers however.
frgsinwntr wrote:grats on the great showing! Thats a very different list than I'm running with castellans. Looks solid with a fair bit of mixing of units. How do you play this list vs things like bark bark star/ironhands star?
Shoot what I can with Grav and tie the others up with Celestine.
Drider wrote:Flock to the front lines, after several games i am still yet to have a single unit respawn. I have been aggressively scouting my dominions who have been taking the brunt of things and the troops just haven't been dying enough to take advantage of the mechanic. I'm not a fan of reserves because it feels like a false economy but i'm considering that outflanking them might actually be the best way to redirect the fire into the troops to capitalize on the respawn mechanic.
Yeah, just one for me. It was silly.
Jancoran wrote:Yip. that multicharge was pretty good., I killed the bikes, all but one scout and the Immolator with a single Grotesque charge. Pretty sweet. If I recall I later ganked the Sisters of Battle that were there a round later. Not bad. Those Grotesques ultimately failed that second multicharge. I got greedy on a charge. Had rolled the exact amount i needed to charge into the Centurions and got greedy, re-rolled and missed it. crushing moment but they did work. Second Grotesques missed two. Ah well. It's still fun to see those things rampage like they do. They are shockingly effective.
To be fair, that Multicharge roll made up for you denying Shriek on the Grots on my turn, which would have decimated a squad of them. (we rolled to see what it would have been and it was like 14 or something crazy).
As for Celesting, I wrote an article about her. She is easy to wound but tough to get through with all those wounds and 2+ armor. I knew I'd be impressed. She EVENTUALLY mulched through a Beastpack, though it took far longer than she wanted as she failed her Hit n Run on the round she wanted it. But in the end she killed it and then kept some Grotesques busy the rest of the game. She was really worth taking and she was really what kind of held the line for the Castellans. She was necessary for that force.
I liked her a lot and cannot wait to field her against the multiverse. There are so many times I would have loved to have something like that to bottle neck an enemy. I found the Repentias very good at it. She is so mobile and can travel i nthe open which makes a difference. Moreso the mobility.
Anywho, It was really interesting to finally get to see her do her thing.
She is definitely worth every point and denied the warlord in every game.
Drider wrote:Flock to the front lines, after several games i am still yet to have a single unit respawn. I have been aggressively scouting my dominions who have been taking the brunt of things and the troops just haven't been dying enough to take advantage of the mechanic. I'm not a fan of reserves because it feels like a false economy but i'm considering that outflanking them might actually be the best way to redirect the fire into the troops to capitalize on the respawn mechanic.
Yeah, just one for me. It was silly.
Y'all need to tell your dices to get gud guys My very first game I respawned everything once, that was awesome !
After that I usually got 1-2 respawn per game (with 4 troops + 4 transports in my list) which was enough to be useful.
If your troops are not enough of a threat, make them more dangerous. I know in the future I will pay a combi to all troop sister superior to go to 3 melta shot per unit. That makes them a bigger threat and I'll get more mileage from the respawn.
I even sometimes wonder about puting hunter-killer missile on all those respawning immos
In addition to Pretre's list, here's another one at 1500 that worked pretty well for me so far (temporary #1 ITC fudge yeah ! I wonder how fast I'll go down in the rankings from now on xD)
Spoiler:
Chapter tactic IH for the SM HQ: Celestine
HQ: Coteaz
EL: SM Bike Command Squad with 4x gravguns, Apothecary, 2x shields and a meltabomb
TR: 5 BSS 2 meltas in MM dozer immo
TR: 5 BSS 2 meltas in MM dozer immo
TR: 5 Tactical SM melta, combi-melta in drop-pod
TR: 5 scouts meltabomb in LS Storm with HF
FA: Stormtalon with skyhammers
FA: 5 Dominions 4x meltas and repressor
HS: Wyvern
HS: Thunderfire canon
The two barrage unit and the scouts proved to be enough anti-horde while everything else can deal with heavy stuff. The bike command squad + Celestine unit is not great in close combat, but durable enough to tie up stuff, hit'n'run away and grav the hell out of everything.
The tactical squad will probably go away in favor of another scout squad in LS Storm (those guys are awesome) and some options. Like I said earlier, probably combi-melta on all troop sarges/superiors to buff those troops and get a better mileage of the respawn mechanic.
Anyway, that list got me 3-0 at two different RTTs =)
MacPhail wrote: What are the roles of the various Inquisitors in this list?
Extra warlord traits.
this...
the list sometimes needs a nice alpha strike so getting infiltrate warlord trait is a big deal. They are there for warlord traits and not much else. The warlord inquisitor however is in the list because he is a cheap warlord with multiple wounds. Using the psyocculum he will ride with the condemnor command squad to guarantee damage from the condemnors. They'll hit on rerollable 2s causing 5 perils of the warp on a unit with a psyker. The warlord one also has the circle of Desvalle... to give him an invul save and in a relic mission/objective mission prevent my opponent from gating to the location to steal the objective last turn or prevent summoned units from getting too close!
To be fair, that Multicharge roll made up for you denying Shriek on the Grots on my turn, which would have decimated a squad of them. (we rolled to see what it would have been and it was like 14 or something crazy).
Actually you rolled 17. So if that had gone off...POOF.
Although i dont think karma is an actual thing in a dice game. Lol. I got greedy is all. Should have accepted the successful charge and been done with it. That was entirely just a calculated risk that didnt pay off. I was just happy to have the chance at it after that Shriek. Yeesh. Coulda been worse.
frgsinwntr wrote: Using the psyocculum he will ride with the condemnor command squad to guarantee damage from the condemnors. They'll hit on rerollable 2s causing 5 perils of the warp on a unit with a psyker.
I was a big fan of this psyocculum+condemnor squad, but since the LVO I stopped fielding the unit when one of my opponent pointed out to me that multiple condemnor do not stack (because of the way the psi-shock rule is written). So we called a judge and he decided in his favor. At the moment we both could see each other points, and I fear he is right.
The rule says (I don't have my codex at hand right now so I'm paraphrasing): "if a unit is hit by a weapon with the psy-chock rule, one random psyker suffers a perils of the warp in addition to any other damage". The important part is the "if a unit is hit by a psi-shock weapon" which technically is only triggered once (all hits from same weapons being simultaneous) and not one time per hit. Making a volley of 5-6 condemnor as efficient as a single one firing.
It's very sad, but everytime I reread the rule and think about it, I'm inclined to say that my opponent was right and this squad just goes back to uselessness.
It's very sad, but everytime I reread the rule and think about it, I'm inclined to say that my opponent was right and this squad just goes back to uselessness.
What about Condemnors scattered throughout the army on Superiors? I guess the danger is you end up shooting at something you otherwise wouldn't, then fail to wound.
MacPhail wrote: What are the roles of the various Inquisitors in this list?
Extra warlord traits.
Sounds like infiltrate is the big winner... any other popular ones? Also, is the Inquisitor worth using to boost a squad, or is it safer to hide your potential kill points behind the line?
On the strategic table, Infiltrate is probably the best with the +1 to seize and reroll reserves being close second (specially with coteaz seize reroll).
Stealth ruins is usually good to have while the -1 ennemy's reserve are situational but can be very potent depending on the situation
Night fight is usually not very helpful although it can sometimes be potent (but there is so many cases where it doesnt matter or when the ennemy can play around it) and almost everything in he game is immune to pinning test when deployed (either because inside a trnasport, on bikes, fearless, whatever...) so those last 2 traits are not the best ever.
Also, is the Inquisitor worth using to boost a squad, or is it safer to hide your potential kill points behind the line?
They're usually hiding because people like to keep them cheap. But a well kited out inquisitor can seriously buff units.
It's very sad, but everytime I reread the rule and think about it, I'm inclined to say that my opponent was right and this squad just goes back to uselessness.
What about Condemnors scattered throughout the army on Superiors? I guess the danger is you end up shooting at something you otherwise wouldn't, then fail to wound.
I might try that in the future, but IMHO it's probably not worth it. Going scattered simply adds too many constraints on top of an already situational weapon.
pretre wrote: You can also use the Inq to soak wounds on another squad and don't forget servo skulls!
Sounds like stashing them in the backfield with Retributers or objective campers might be the best. They can't embark with anything other than henchmen because of the faction rules, right? I guess the "add an ordos unit" option might get them attached to a cool mounted unit, or the IA Valkyrie that allows multiple factions to embark.
pretre wrote: You can also use the Inq to soak wounds on another squad and don't forget servo skulls!
Sounds like stashing them in the backfield with Retributers or objective campers might be the best. They can't embark with anything other than henchmen because of the faction rules, right? I guess the "add an ordos unit" option might get them attached to a cool mounted unit, or the IA Valkyrie that allows multiple factions to embark.
Yeah, I used mine to soak wounds on Coteaz's squad this last tourney, but Rets would be fine or any other unit that is sitting out in the middle of nowhere and might get shot.
I'm excited about the new book coming out. For ITC i'm going to try a Fallen primary for BRB warlord purposes, with a Sisters cad ITC main faction (most points) and ally in my Kytan Daemon Engine in a Chaos CaD.
That's right, Celestine and a Kytan wrecking face. Not sure how the points will work our or any type of effectiveness, but gosh if it won't break the fluff and ruin some person's day.
frgsinwntr wrote: Using the psyocculum he will ride with the condemnor command squad to guarantee damage from the condemnors. They'll hit on rerollable 2s causing 5 perils of the warp on a unit with a psyker.
I was a big fan of this psyocculum+condemnor squad, but since the LVO I stopped fielding the unit when one of my opponent pointed out to me that multiple condemnor do not stack (because of the way the psi-shock rule is written). So we called a judge and he decided in his favor. At the moment we both could see each other points, and I fear he is right.
The rule says (I don't have my codex at hand right now so I'm paraphrasing): "if a unit is hit by a weapon with the psy-chock rule, one random psyker suffers a perils of the warp in addition to any other damage". The important part is the "if a unit is hit by a psi-shock weapon" which technically is only triggered once (all hits from same weapons being simultaneous) and not one time per hit. Making a volley of 5-6 condemnor as efficient as a single one firing.
It's very sad, but everytime I reread the rule and think about it, I'm inclined to say that my opponent was right and this squad just goes back to uselessness.
it says "If a unit containing at least one model with the psyker, brotherhood of pyskers, or psychic pilot rule special rules is hit by a weapon with the psi shock special rule, one randomly selected psyker model in that unit suffers a perils of the warp in addition to any other damage."
So... they were hit 5 times... that rule triggers 5 times. I don't see a reason why each hit wouldn't activate the rule. This has nothing to do with the shooting happening simultaneously or not. It says the only condition for triggering a perils is for the weapon to hit. Each hit would do this since they were "hit by a weapon " singular stressed by me.
But i'll ask the TO for the delawarr open before I go. I'll take what the TO rules either way.
Bionid wrote: Hi all, I've lurked for a long time, and I learned a massive amount from this thread when coming back from my 40k hiatus over 4th and 5th edition. So thank you all for that!
Next month we're starting an ETC league locally, with 18 players, each playing 8 games in swiss pairings before top 8 play off. It's no holds barred so I'm expecting all the nastiest stuff possible.
The restrictions are fairly standard for ETC, no forgeworld allowed so no worries about Skathach or R&H barrage (Though they're allowing Repressors), 1850, 4 detachment max (the mega detachments count as 2).
Mission-wise, there are 8 missions - each takes into account killpoints, 24 card deck, Eternal War objectives and your standard slay the warlord etc.
Therefore, since I usually play full MSU sisters, I figured I'd be giving over a free 6vp every game, and I couldn't go full deathstar or I'd be screwed on the objectives. I've instead gone for a sort of half'n'half.
Basically I'll be running a star of the wolves, celestine, priest, and the conclave, while the sisters clear up objectives and doms clear heavy hitters who might stomp up the star. Late game I can split up to cover objectives for the endgame primaries.
I've playtested this once against a screamer heavy demonic incursion list and I made a few key errors but I think the theory is working. Celestine tanking for the star with Veil of Time basically meant it got to combat unharmed, even though it lacked Azrael for the 4++ / 5+++ on the dogs.
I'm wondering though:
Castellans. It would take me to the four detachment max, and I could keep obsec by adding Coteaz. Do you think it's worth dropping the Immos to rhinos and dropping the bones of Osrak to take Coteaz and change the CAD to a Castellans. Two extra rolls for hammerhand or sanctuary couldn't hurt either!
Cheers
Barkstar without Azrael is very susceptible to a lot of things... You can't expect to tank with Celestine for the most part, its easy for a good player to out position and get a good angle to wipe out as many dogs as possible.
1. Mass barrage, like from a renegades list.
2. Mass flamers (torrents) or big flamers from Skataknights, one nice angle shot, you lose 10-15+ dogs. And you don't really have a reliable way to deal with a WK in combat either, stomps will wipe out a lot of dogs too.
3. If you run into a true barkstar, you might be in real trouble.
If you intend on sticking to this army, I would bring a Red Scorpion conclave to have Loth for guarantee Invis and shroud (ETC Invis is un-nerf right?). He can also help tank with a 2++ as a contingency.
deviantduck wrote: I'm excited about the new book coming out. For ITC i'm going to try a Fallen primary for BRB warlord purposes, with a Sisters cad ITC main faction (most points) and ally in my Kytan Daemon Engine in a Chaos CaD.
That's right, Celestine and a Kytan wrecking face. Not sure how the points will work our or any type of effectiveness, but gosh if it won't break the fluff and ruin some person's day.
Aren't Sisters and CSM Come the apocalypse, and therefore not an allowed alliance in ITC ?
frgsinwntr wrote: it says "If a unit containing at least one model with the psyker, brotherhood of pyskers, or psychic pilot rule special rules is hit by a weapon with the psi shock special rule, one randomly selected psyker model in that unit suffers a perils of the warp in addition to any other damage."
So... they were hit 5 times... that rule triggers 5 times. I don't see a reason why each hit wouldn't activate the rule. This has nothing to do with the shooting happening simultaneously or not. It says the only condition for triggering a perils is for the weapon to hit. Each hit would do this since they were "hit by a weapon " singular stressed by me.
But i'll ask the TO for the delawarr open before I go. I'll take what the TO rules either way.
Try to read it that way: you roll 5 times to hit. Is the unit hit by a weapon with the psy-shock rule ? Yes, then a one randomly selected psyker suffers perils in addition to any other damage.
when read that way, there is nothing to support the fact that you can get more than 1 peril. If the rule used a wording like "for every hit" or "everytime a psy-shock weapon hit" then yeah it would be clearer. And same for the other way, something like "if a unit is hit one or more time by a psy-schock weapon, then blablabla" would have been crystal clear.
I'm in touch with the LVO judges and other people involved in the ITC FaQ to try getting a ruling on the matter as far as ITC games are concerned.
Barkstar without Azrael is very susceptible to a lot of things... You can't expect to tank with Celestine for the most part, its easy for a good player to out position and get a good angle to wipe out as many dogs as possible.
1. Mass barrage, like from a renegades list.
2. Mass flamers (torrents) or big flamers from Skataknights, one nice angle shot, you lose 10-15+ dogs. And you don't really have a reliable way to deal with a WK in combat either, stomps will wipe out a lot of dogs too.
3. If you run into a true barkstar, you might be in real trouble.
If you intend on sticking to this army, I would bring a Red Scorpion conclave to have Loth for guarantee Invis and shroud (ETC Invis is un-nerf right?). He can also help tank with a 2++ as a contingency.
Well ETC doesnt allow FW content so no Renegades, Skataknights or Loth.
And from what I know, barrage weapons are not the hot thing in ETC and there is no allowed unit that can field a superheavy flame template.
But yeah, maneuvering around Celestine is not the hardest thing to do. So he need to fish heavily for the un-nerfed invis / endurance.
Try to read it that way: you roll 5 times to hit. Is the unit hit by a weapon with the psy-shock rule ? Yes, then a one randomly selected psyker suffers perils in addition to any other damage.
when read that way, there is nothing to support the fact that you can get more than 1 peril. If the rule used a wording like "for every hit" or "everytime a psy-shock weapon hit" then yeah it would be clearer. And same for the other way, something like "if a unit is hit one or more time by a psy-schock weapon, then blablabla" would have been crystal clear.
I'm in touch with the LVO judges and other people involved in the ITC FaQ to try getting a ruling on the matter as far as ITC games are concerned.
Not to insult your rules interpretations or anything, but I see no reason to ONLY interpret it that way...
WAY 1) you way...
a) fire weapons
b) hit with all weapons
c) check to see if a weapon with psi-shock hit resolve one.
This is how it would read if you checked once for the rule after all hits... there is no reason or precedent to check only once... i can't find any weapon where this is the case and any rule that are close (Blind example), says units hit by one OR more weapons with the rule.... so there is reason enough to not rule it this way IMHO....
Way 2) my reading
a) fire all weapons
b) hit with all weapons
c) each hit with a weapon with the special rule triggers the effect
Again since there is no precedent and I can't find a weapon with a similar mechanic.... Blind being the closest and that says one OR more hits... language missing from psi-shock.
It seems like a straight up TO call depending on the event. Definitely not clear cut.
I talked to steve who runs delawarr, and Phil R (NOVA judge) and since i'm an east coast player I'm going with their ruling of each hit causes the perils. I just wish there was a weapon with a similar mechanic.
Edit: reading it your way would mean multiple weapons with haywire rule hitting a target would only result in a single haywire roll... To be consistent
Hold your cyber horses bro I never said it was the only way to interpret it, and it is definitively not "my" way. I always played it as 1 hit = 1 perils, but some people don't agree. That's why I brought up the point.
And if it made you clarify it with the TO for the Delawarr, then it's mission accomplished You won't be in the same situation that I was at the last LVO.
As for Haywire, the rule is sadly not worded the same way. "if a haywire weapon hits a vehicle" is not the same as "if a vehicle is hit by a haywire weapon". One condition is verified on a weapon basis, the other is verified on a unit basis. Also Haywire specifically states that it overwrites the penetration roll.
I wasn't able to find any other similarly worded rule to set up a precedent either.
Barkstar without Azrael is very susceptible to a lot of things... You can't expect to tank with Celestine for the most part, its easy for a good player to out position and get a good angle to wipe out as many dogs as possible.
1. Mass barrage, like from a renegades list.
2. Mass flamers (torrents) or big flamers from Skataknights, one nice angle shot, you lose 10-15+ dogs. And you don't really have a reliable way to deal with a WK in combat either, stomps will wipe out a lot of dogs too.
3. If you run into a true barkstar, you might be in real trouble.
If you intend on sticking to this army, I would bring a Red Scorpion conclave to have Loth for guarantee Invis and shroud (ETC Invis is un-nerf right?). He can also help tank with a 2++ as a contingency.
Well ETC doesnt allow FW content so no Renegades, Skataknights or Loth.
And from what I know, barrage weapons are not the hot thing in ETC and there is no allowed unit that can field a superheavy flame template.
But yeah, maneuvering around Celestine is not the hardest thing to do. So he need to fish heavily for the un-nerfed invis / endurance.
Yep, none of that is allowed. I changed my list up slightly, and went to a one dayer at element games, ended up playing a Team England ETC player with the list.
My list for the event was:
Castellans of the Imperium Detachment (1089)
HQ1: Celestine (200)
HQ2: Coteaz (100)
HQ3: Ministorum Priest, Litanies of Faith (40)
HQ4: Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, 3 Servo Skulls, Rad Grenades (49)
HQ Total: 389
T1: BSSx5, MG/HF, Immolator (TLMM) (140)
T2: BSSx5, MG/HF, Immolator (TLMM) (140)
T3: BSSx5, MG/HF, Immolator (TLMM) (140)
T4: BSSx4, MG/HF, Immolator (TLMM) (140)
T5: BSSx4, MG/HF, Immolator (TLMM) (140)
T Total: 700
Librarius Conclave (440)
Librarian, ML2, Bike (110)
Librarian, ML2, Bike (110)
Librarian, ML2, Bike (110)
Librarian, ML2, Bike (110)
First game at the event, and using this pseudo-star at all, was against Mani Cheema - Team England's wolfstar player. This was already an uphill battle since his list was basically similar in function to mine, but better in every way. Azrael for the Invuln, Battle Company to have 10 obsec transports with 10 obsec units inside instead of my 5, Rune Priests with more effective offensive powers. I made a bunch of mistakes here, and I would have played it very differently having had 7 games with this list since. I basically managed to roll nothing useful, and placed my rad grenades poorly in the unit, that got destroyed by the 5d6 s7 shots from a rune priest. Had that not happened, Hammerhand Celestine would have ID'd Azrael, and I maybe would have stood a chance. I got 0-20'd, but not tabled.
After playing this game it was clear my first power to roll for would be Forewarning, followed by Sanctuary, Hammerhand, and Veil of Time.
Second game was against a pure Dark Angels Lion's blade. His drop pods came in and killed ~8 wolves, and two immolators. I managed to roll my powers and proceeded to multicharge to my heart's content, tabling the opponent. 20-0 for the sisters.
Third game was against double Wraithknight ynnari. I got given first turn so rolled my powers, buffed up the unit, and moved forward as quickly as possible. I was hoping he'd take the bait with his wraithknights, and he did. I caused 6 wounds on one in the first round of combat, and 5 on the other. S6 wolves vs a (now) T7 WK, rerolling hits, wounds, caused plenty of pain. His stomp didn't get a 6 so Celestine kept her extra life too! I hit and ran out (thanks Celestine), and destroyed the rest of his army while the Immos mopped up the WK, making sure nothing was within 7".
Ended up coming 10th overall, out of 26. Not bad for my first event. Interestingly, out of 5 players, Ynnari's highest placing was 12th.
Ynnari will be a finesse army. Capitalizing on their abilities requires a skilled player and the average opponent won't do significantly better with them (and is in many ways better off sticking just to craftworld or corsair eldar).
deviantduck wrote: I'm excited about the new book coming out. For ITC i'm going to try a Fallen primary for BRB warlord purposes, with a Sisters cad ITC main faction (most points) and ally in my Kytan Daemon Engine in a Chaos CaD.
That's right, Celestine and a Kytan wrecking face. Not sure how the points will work our or any type of effectiveness, but gosh if it won't break the fluff and ruin some person's day.
Aren't Sisters and CSM Come the apocalypse, and therefore not an allowed alliance in ITC ?
This was based off the leaked Fallen rules, so I haven't confirmed it. If the fallen are your primary BRB faction, then they can ally with both Chaos and Imperial. So the sisters are allied with the fallen, and the Chaos are allied with the fallen. You just have to keep your sisters 12" from your chaos or they might just stand there looking silly.
Level of alliances are not defined from your primary detachment perspective only. If you have 3 different factions in your army, then you have A allied to B, A allied to C and B allied to C.
If Fallen and Sisters are Come the apocalypse, then they can never be in the same army (per ITC format), no matter what your primary detachment is.
Barkstar without Azrael is very susceptible to a lot of things... You can't expect to tank with Celestine for the most part, its easy for a good player to out position and get a good angle to wipe out as many dogs as possible.
1. Mass barrage, like from a renegades list.
2. Mass flamers (torrents) or big flamers from Skataknights, one nice angle shot, you lose 10-15+ dogs. And you don't really have a reliable way to deal with a WK in combat either, stomps will wipe out a lot of dogs too.
3. If you run into a true barkstar, you might be in real trouble.
If you intend on sticking to this army, I would bring a Red Scorpion conclave to have Loth for guarantee Invis and shroud (ETC Invis is un-nerf right?). He can also help tank with a 2++ as a contingency.
Well ETC doesnt allow FW content so no Renegades, Skataknights or Loth.
And from what I know, barrage weapons are not the hot thing in ETC and there is no allowed unit that can field a superheavy flame template.
But yeah, maneuvering around Celestine is not the hardest thing to do. So he need to fish heavily for the un-nerfed invis / endurance.
Yep, none of that is allowed. I changed my list up slightly, and went to a one dayer at element games, ended up playing a Team England ETC player with the list.
My list for the event was:
Castellans of the Imperium Detachment (1089)
HQ1: Celestine (200)
HQ2: Coteaz (100)
HQ3: Ministorum Priest, Litanies of Faith (40)
HQ4: Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, 3 Servo Skulls, Rad Grenades (49)
HQ Total: 389
T1: BSSx5, MG/HF, Immolator (TLMM) (140)
T2: BSSx5, MG/HF, Immolator (TLMM) (140)
T3: BSSx5, MG/HF, Immolator (TLMM) (140)
T4: BSSx4, MG/HF, Immolator (TLMM) (140)
T5: BSSx4, MG/HF, Immolator (TLMM) (140)
T Total: 700
Librarius Conclave (440)
Librarian, ML2, Bike (110)
Librarian, ML2, Bike (110)
Librarian, ML2, Bike (110)
Librarian, ML2, Bike (110)
First game at the event, and using this pseudo-star at all, was against Mani Cheema - Team England's wolfstar player. This was already an uphill battle since his list was basically similar in function to mine, but better in every way. Azrael for the Invuln, Battle Company to have 10 obsec transports with 10 obsec units inside instead of my 5, Rune Priests with more effective offensive powers. I made a bunch of mistakes here, and I would have played it very differently having had 7 games with this list since. I basically managed to roll nothing useful, and placed my rad grenades poorly in the unit, that got destroyed by the 5d6 s7 shots from a rune priest. Had that not happened, Hammerhand Celestine would have ID'd Azrael, and I maybe would have stood a chance. I got 0-20'd, but not tabled.
After playing this game it was clear my first power to roll for would be Forewarning, followed by Sanctuary, Hammerhand, and Veil of Time.
Second game was against a pure Dark Angels Lion's blade. His drop pods came in and killed ~8 wolves, and two immolators. I managed to roll my powers and proceeded to multicharge to my heart's content, tabling the opponent. 20-0 for the sisters.
Third game was against double Wraithknight ynnari. I got given first turn so rolled my powers, buffed up the unit, and moved forward as quickly as possible. I was hoping he'd take the bait with his wraithknights, and he did. I caused 6 wounds on one in the first round of combat, and 5 on the other. S6 wolves vs a (now) T7 WK, rerolling hits, wounds, caused plenty of pain. His stomp didn't get a 6 so Celestine kept her extra life too! I hit and ran out (thanks Celestine), and destroyed the rest of his army while the Immos mopped up the WK, making sure nothing was within 7".
Ended up coming 10th overall, out of 26. Not bad for my first event. Interestingly, out of 5 players, Ynnari's highest placing was 12th.
No FW? Thats boring, ITC is a lot more fun I guess.
Regardless, having the right buffs every game is essential for the survival of the barkstar without Azrael. If you can't take Loth, then take Tiggy at least he will have a better chance of getting that buff compared to just regular lvl2 Libbies. It is just too risky to not take Tiggy when you may play some tough armies at a even more competitive tourney or GT.
RabbitMaster wrote: Level of alliances are not defined from your primary detachment perspective only. If you have 3 different factions in your army, then you have A allied to B, A allied to C and B allied to C.
If Fallen and Sisters are Come the apocalypse, then they can never be in the same army (per ITC format), no matter what your primary detachment is.
Fallen and Armies of the Imperium (including Sisters) are Battle Brothers - Dark Angels are the only exception with a blanket ban on the two Faction being in the same army..
Sorry, there was a typo in my response and it should have been: "If CSM and Sisters are Come the apocalypse, then they can never be in the same army (per ITC format), no matter what your primary detachment is.
RabbitMaster wrote: Sorry, there was a typo in my response and it should have been: "If CSM and Sisters are Come the apocalypse, then they can never be in the same army (per ITC format), no matter what your primary detachment is.
Correct. I though they just couldn't be CtA with the primary faction. The ITC rule says with all detachments with each other. I am sad now. I want my super unfluffy list.
Since the start of the year, I routinely take a Stormtalon with skyhammer missiles. It is cheap, very good against AV10-11 flyers and to get some nice mobile ground support. It can also grab an objective i nthe late game. Against AV12 it's obviously not that great, but it still make most flyer jink which makes them a lot less of a threat. Exorcists have the same effect, specially if you talk your way a little bit "-Y'know, it can shot up to 6 times S8 AP1, so 6s are likely", "-yeah right I'll jink then".
Otherwise, pray for a skyfire mysterious objective or for those lucky 6 with meltas. All my squads have 2-4 meltas, so that's a lot. And at some point I do roll a few 6.
Also, destroying flyers is not the only way to deal with them. They have limited maneuverability in the sky, use that to your advantage and move your units where you know they won't be able to target you next turn (unless they land, *if* they can, and then you melta their face off the table). And very often, simply ignoring them is a good strategy.
. I believe there was a game where an eldar player seized the initiaive and shot 33% of my army off the table before I got to even do anything. Sure, better positioning (and/or knowing I'd be going second ahead of time) would have mitigated this, but it doesn't make his jetbikes massively undercosted. Codexes that can just spam a couple of their better units and wind up with a reasonably flexible list benefit immensely when their competition is hampered by arbitrary restrictions. Imagine an event that doesn't allow allies or 
I want to make it more sisters
I will run her at some point, but this is not that list.
