Ok, guys, I don't have much time left before the Las Vegas Open GT (February 19th). I need to finalize what I am going to bring there!
Mods, please do not move this thread as it will be where I will put my battle reports.
The Las Vegas Open GT 2015 in my opinion may possibly be the most competitive tournament in the United States currently (as far as the Singles competition is concerned). There's going to be so many really, really good players coming to the tournament and I am talking about GT-winners and other successful tournament players. Even my first round opponent will be a legend in the 40K tournament scene. And it won't get any easier from there. Moreover, while I aim to have a lot of fun, this year, I've set my ambitions to be very high. I aim to make it to Day #3, which would be the Top 16 out of a field of about 280 players. Last year, I barely missed Day #3, going 4-0 before finally losing in Round #5 (the last round before Day #3) to the guy who eventually took 2nd at the tournament. So with such lofty ambitions, I need to take a seriously competitive army.
Here are a few lists that I am currently considering:
1. 1850 NEWCRONS
Spoiler:
At the moment, I don't know exactly what this would be. But one thing is for sure, it will include a lot of wraiths, possibly as much as 18 of them. The rest of the army, well, that I've got to figure out and I've got to do it soon.
I wouldn't mind taking suggestions here. If you think you have a list that is a winner and you don't mind sharing, feel free to post it here or PM it to me. I will consider all lists as long as I've got the models (or can get easy access to them) and if I choose your list, I will give credit where credit is due (in my reports).
Finally, whether I take the Newcrons or not will also depend on whether I have the time to finish it before the tournament. If I can't finish the army that I like, then I will have to use one of the other lists here.
2. 1850 OLDCRONS - AV13 NECRONS
Spoiler:
This would really be the last hurrah for my AV13-spam Necrons if enough people want to see me bring this. It is finished and it is a very strong army, with what I feel is the capability to win a GT. Now I might modify it slightly, but it will be very close to the following list:
Now I know that I've said that I wouldn't run this list in competitive play, but I will make an exception for the LVO. As a matter of fact, to reach my goals, I might have to run my best and this army is definitely one of my best. It isn't an autowin list, especially not against the crop of extremely good players that you will see here at the LVO, but this list has what it takes to get me to Day #3. It even has the potential to win the whole thing, but even it will have a hard time against all the really players with really good lists out there.
In any case, the kid's gloves are off. Here at the LVO, it's anything goes. With my Pentyrant Tyranids, I feel that I have a good chance to reach my goal.
4. 1850 TYRANIDS
Spoiler:
If I want to challenge myself, I'd go with a 4-flyrant Tyranid build. It'll either be Leviathan + Skyblight or Leviathan + SkyTyrant.
Flyrant - Egrubs, Reaper of Obliterax, Old Adversary
19x Gargoyles
20x Gargoyles
5. 1850 THE FLUFF-KILLER
Spoiler:
This is potentially a very good combo, Tyranids + Necrons. They both help to address each other's weaknesses. Necrons provide a strong ground presence for Tyranids, and Tyranids fill the anti-air gap for the Necrons. I do have the models for this build. However, I've got no actual gaming experience with it yet.
This list is definitely a top-tier list that is capable of making it to Day #3. Though there's going to be a lot of Centurionstars there. This list may be a tertiary choice. My primary/secondary lists will be the ones above.
As far as the army goes, it's almost done. I've basically got all the units. I just need to finish up assembling/painting my centurions and it'll be ready.
7. 1850 ADAMANTINE LANCE
Spoiler:
I've actually got 3 Imperial Knights so this is a possibility. The only question is what to pair them up with? Perhaps Eldar?
So let me know what you would like to see me bring. And if you have suggestions and/or changes to my lists, feel free to post it here or to PM me. The lists themselves are not set in stone. If I like any of the suggestions here, I might make the changes to my list (assuming I have the appropriate models).
I voted for Pentyrants because I don't go to tournaments but I read your battle report with this list and it was brutal even when you were playing nicely.
I really like Oldcrons AV13. Bargelords are rock solid, good flyer support and ABs still do a good job. Manouverable army overall, decent firepower, very resilient/annoying Bargelords.
thanatos67 wrote: I voted adlance, because I want an easy matchup in the finals .
Just out of curiosity, what is the Adamantium Lance an "easy matchup" against? I'm guessing Flyrant-heavy Nids?
That, deamons can just summon and tie them up with crap units forever, tau msu with lots of melta suits, or just melta-heavy pod marines. There's a few other ways to pick that style army apart but mostly it comes down to overtaxing the knights with credible threats from multiple angles. JY2's flyrant/knight list does throw the AA wrinkle in which is really needed, but sacrifices summoning capability with only 6 models that can actually grab objectives.
I was under the impression that you had to take the Decurion or whatever to get the Canoptek harvest. So you would need 5 immortals and at least a min sized tomb blade squad fit in there somewhere.
Also mabey just me but I am having a hard time finding the 2+ armour save for Overlords and Destroyer Lords. (Dont have book on me atm)
My vote is for Fluff Killer. Sure its spam but at least its different spam.
I thought so as well at first, but the Decurion detachment is just all of the formations stuck into one detachment with some extra bits.
So canoptek harvest is just like any other formation, e.g. skyblight, so you can take it with a necron CAD. And the 2+ comes from the nightmare shroud relic, it basically is a 2+ armour save and once per game all enemy units within 6" must take a morale check something like that.
I would like to see my list used, but fluff killer is a good list and different
Voted Pentyrant, mostly because I didn't like the solo Mawloc in the SkyBlight list. If you go with the latter, take SkyBlight over SkyTyrant: the 2 Harpies and Crone should make up for the fifth Flyrant IMO, and if you're going flyer spam go all the way.
Well I voted non 5 Tyrant...I agree that 5 Tyrants is stupid strong, but I think that victory is possible with less extreme builds, and you have stated that you don't much want to run Pentyrant. I think that a Leviathan with SkyTyrant, or SkyBlight is plenty strong enough to make the top 5, and if the dice gawds are willing, win it all.
Fluffkiller. I saw your musings in the batrep with the Newcrons, and think you ought to push in that direction right away. Don't give people a moment's rest; advance that meta.
Bugger to all the super-comp lists, give yourself more of a challenge!! I voted for the Knights list, although I would rather see them paired with GK, Marines or Guard before Eldar!
I've never seen you play with Guard, do you have any?
I voted penta tyrant. Firstly I seem to recall you saying you really wanted to take this tournament seriously. If so I think you should let the new crons settle before bringing them to a tournament.
Playing the meta however it might not be the best idea to bring penta tyrant. You already showed that old crons are a really hard match up for it, and I would not be surprised to a see people breaking out there old crons because it is their last chance.
I don't think penta tyrant is as amazing as you make it out to be, but I would love to see you take it to a tournament and prove me wrong.
to me your wraiths is good with a destoryer cuilt or 2 and run some knights ooooooooooooooooooor run the flying bug circus with them and have dlords with destoyers cuilt and wraiths wreck the land
I voted Oldcrons, since they seem the most competitive to me.
Honestly Jy2, I'd take what you think is the most fun/most competitive.
However, if I know you at all, I'd think you want a strong final showing with your Oldcrons - to show the world that crons are damn good. So I suspect you have a secret, deep yearning to play your oldcrons and crush face with them one....last....time....
I'd say you have the best chance to stand out with New Necrons. I doubt there will be many brave enough, or confident enough in their list building and tactics to bring it. Also, it seems like an army that can field a diversity of units and still compete as opposed to Spammier Old Necrons or Tyranids.
coblen wrote: I don't think penta tyrant is as amazing as you make it out to be, but I would love to see you take it to a tournament and prove me wrong.
Voted for Pentyrant for the same reason.
It's a bit sketchy to say "oooh, this list is so good, I'd just never take it to a tournament because it would be too easy."
I've never been sold on the 5-Flyrant concept due to the overwhelming lack of ground presence, so why not give it a shot and see what happens?
Well almost every list is just a different flavor of flyrant spam. Would be cool to see something different, but if your dead set on taking flyrants, why pull your punches, just take the 5. You said you wouldn't take it but who cares, it's not like taking 4 is much different lol. I think it is insanely good in BAO format, I think that should be pointed out, that list isn't nearly as good when maelstrom isn't tallied for both players at the bottom of the turn. So I say go for it and demonstrate that fact, can only lead to making their system better all while achieving your goal.
It's gona suck when you draw centstar on the relic though
lucian the dead one wrote: to me your wraiths is good with a destoryer cuilt or 2 and run some knights ooooooooooooooooooor run the flying bug circus with them and have dlords with destoyers cuilt and wraiths wreck the land
I would very much like to see a wraithwing + destroyer formation combo. I think they would be super strong and you have the destroyers re-rolling to hit and to wound!
Formation
1 x Destroyer Lord
3 x Destroyers (1 x heavy)
3 x Destroyers (1 x heavy)
3 x Destroyers (1 x heavy)
1 x full unit of heavy destroyers
CAD
1 x Overlord
1 x 5 man immortal squad in NS 1 x 5 man immortal squad in NS 1 x 5 man immortal squad in NS
1 x 5 man squad of wraiths with whip coils
1 x 5 man squad of wraiths with whip coils
Something like that is around 1800 I believe.. depending on your ruling with wraith's charging into cover you could remove the whip coils (saving around 60 points?) all together.. and I am not sure on what the fire power of the destroyer's end's up being, whether you need more heavies or less.. considering your Overlord in this detachment is not really doing much you could also down grade him to a Crpytek..
EDIT - I would like to be able to fit a unit of tomb blades in there as well for speed and removing low armoured models that are in cover..
I have run the combo of crons and nids. It works very well. Moves fast and hits like a ton of rocks.
I don't what to see your old crons as I feel the list will end up facing what it did at TSFT. I love to see you take Nids in one form or another. I Vote FluffKiller. LOL great name.
thanatos67 wrote: I voted adlance, because I want an easy matchup in the finals .
Sorry, but if I took the Adlance, I don't know if I would make it to the finals to give you that easy matchup.
Ratius wrote: I really like Oldcrons AV13. Bargelords are rock solid, good flyer support and ABs still do a good job. Manouverable army overall, decent firepower, very resilient/annoying Bargelords.
I like them too, but it's looking like a longshot that I will be bringing them.
thanatos67 wrote: I voted adlance, because I want an easy matchup in the finals .
Just out of curiosity, what is the Adamantium Lance an "easy matchup" against? I'm guessing Flyrant-heavy Nids?
The problem with Adlance is that it is a very unbalanced army build. Sure it will give a lot of armies problems, but it will also have a lot of problems against certain armies as well. This list is more rock-papers-scissors than any of my other lists to be voted on.
Yes, it would be the old MSS rules using the old codex 1 last time.
Would LVO allow that with the new dex out? ALways wondered how tournaments handle releases that are close to their tournament date
Yes, because it was released less than 30 days before the tournament. Their policy is that if a codex is released less than 30 days before a tournament, then you can use either codices. You just can't mix the two (i.e. no old bargelords, flyers and annihilation barges allied with the new wraiths, etc.).
Minimanj wrote: If you want wraiths then this newcron list might be worth considering:
It is a strong list and I actually have all the models for it already.
However, it is also a very unbalanced list. I prefer a little more shooting/anti-air in my lists. I've run a similar type of list before (24 wraiths), but I do have some concerns with it. But yes, it is definitely a very strong list as long as you don't get any bad matchups.
I was under the impression that you had to take the Decurion or whatever to get the Canoptek harvest. So you would need 5 immortals and at least a min sized tomb blade squad fit in there somewhere.
Also mabey just me but I am having a hard time finding the 2+ armour save for Overlords and Destroyer Lords. (Dont have book on me atm)
My vote is for Fluff Killer. Sure its spam but at least its different spam.
No, I don't believe you have to. Each formation is independent and can be taken as an actual formation for other detachments. However, if you take it for the Decurion, then it counts as part of their detachment and you can take from 1-10 of them. But for other detachments, you can only take 1 of those formations.
Valek wrote: I voted Newcrons, as i think you ought to test them out.
I have somes stuff in mind I'll pm a rudimentary list of what i think should be playable.
Thanks for your input. Will take a look at your list.
phantommaster wrote: Bugger to all the super-comp lists, give yourself more of a challenge!! I voted for the Knights list, although I would rather see them paired with GK, Marines or Guard before Eldar!
I've never seen you play with Guard, do you have any?
I did play Guard back in 5th, but haven't really touched them ever since. I don't really have the models to field a competitive AM army currently, but I may go back to my Imperial roots in the future.
yermom wrote: I say bring the pentyrant so I can show everyone that it's really not good at all.
Haha. I really hope we get to play each other, Nick. I would love to play against your Daemons.
But round #1, I was challenged and have already accepted the matchup against Nick Rose. That's going to be a game filled with fireworks.
coblen wrote: I voted penta tyrant. Firstly I seem to recall you saying you really wanted to take this tournament seriously. If so I think you should let the new crons settle before bringing them to a tournament.
Playing the meta however it might not be the best idea to bring penta tyrant. You already showed that old crons are a really hard match up for it, and I would not be surprised to a see people breaking out there old crons because it is their last chance.
I don't think penta tyrant is as amazing as you make it out to be, but I would love to see you take it to a tournament and prove me wrong.
It's not the best Tyranid army, but it presents such a tough matchup that more armies will have problems against it more so than they will against the other Tyranid armies. Basically, this is an anti-meta army and I am banking that most people just won't be prepared enough to deal with it.
Fxeni wrote: I voted Oldcrons, since they seem the most competitive to me.
Honestly Jy2, I'd take what you think is the most fun/most competitive.
However, if I know you at all, I'd think you want a strong final showing with your Oldcrons - to show the world that crons are damn good. So I suspect you have a secret, deep yearning to play your oldcrons and crush face with them one....last....time....
I actually feel that my Oldcrons is still my best army, but I don't think it is the will of the people that I will be running it again.
Oh, if only the new Necron codex didn't come out until after the LVO. I would so take this army out to the LVO. But it is what it is. Oldcrons will be a longshot.
BTW, I hope we get to play as well. You can challenge me for a spot onto Team 0 Comp if we do so.
If your goal is to take a high level spot at such a competitive tournament, NewCrons seem to be a road to dissapointment. You have play the Tyranid lists in an out while also having tested it against some very competitive lists. If you want to achieve your dream of top 16, don't waste the time you spent play testing.
I would be tempted to run a a reclamation league with one ghost ark and a twenty man warrior unit and everything else pretty bare bones - 2 canoptek harvest each with 6 wraiths of course - conclave of the burning eye with one veil.
So no - not 18 wraiths - just 12 but the C'Tan I think makes up for it nicely.
I had my very first test game with my new NecroNids. My opponent, Alex, is a very good Necron player. He is actually the best Necron player on the ITC rankings currently. However, just like me, he has not decided on what his new Necron army would be yet, and so for this battle, he will be running his older Necrons.
BTW, this isn't any normal matchup. It is a Team Challenge with pride and beers at stake. Team Zero Comp vs Team Left Coast Corsairs. It was GTA Grant Theft Auto, Spam Adams, me and BloodofKittens own TasteyTaste (though he really isn't on our team, we picked him up for this team challenge) against Paul McKelvey (top Tau player and top player overall in the ITC rankings, just ahead of GTA), Alex (top Necron player) and 2 of their teammates. Loser treats to drinks and get bragging rights. This was just a precursor to the LVO, where we will be involved in a much larger bet.
Normally, I would be pretty confident with this matchup. HOWEVER, there are 2 factors here to even the odds.
First off, I should be able to win the ground game. I feel that I have the advantage here, at least with numbers. The fact that my wraiths are T5 and I5 also gives me an advantage compared to my opponent's wraiths. However, my opponent does have the old-school Mindshackle Scarabs, which will be a pain. He has a 50% chance of negating 1 wraith per turn. Unless I roll really poorly, I should be able to dominate the ground game with my new and improved wraiths.
As for the aerial battle, normally, I would say that 3 flyrants would have the advantage over 4 night scythes. However, he will get the alpha-strike against my flyrants so he could potentially take out a flyrant to gain the air advantage (and he's got the old-school teslas as well!).
But where he will have a major advantage is 1) he is going 2nd with 4 flyers and 2) it is an objectives game. So it really doesn't matter how well I can control the ground game. I could table his ground forces and then he could still win by dropping off troops on the last turn. In order to stop him, I MUST kill his flyers and do it early. If I can kill 2-3 flyers, then I should be in a good condition to take the game. If not, then it's anyone's game (actually, then he will have the advantage).
I apologize, but I forgot to take the Maelstrom notes with me. So Maelstrom objectives will be going off memory.
Turn 1, I need to kill 2 units. My opponent needs to kill 1 unit and take Objective #1.
Flyrants fly 24". I cast Catalyst but fail to get off Warp Blast. Flyrants then run.
Wraiths shift to the left.
They then run.
Finally, my D-lord jumps to the front with his Assault jetpack move.
Oldcrons 1
Spoiler:
Alex re-adjusts his position.
1 annibarge (AB) goes to grab Objective #1.
Shooting takes off 2W from my lead flyrant.
My opponent does get 1 Maelstrom VP (for Objective #1). I get none.
Maelstrom VP's - NecroNids: 0, Oldcrons: 1
NecroNids 2
Spoiler:
1 spore comes in but scatters out of the ruins.
Wraiths advance.
Flyrants get ready to bring the pain.
It is here where my opponent realizes the HUGE mistake that he has made. He put his Warlord too close to his AB such that I could hit both with my egrubs from all 3 of my flyrants!
HOWEVER, I was so excited about his mistake that I jumped the gun and made a rather large blunder myself. I forget to do my Psychic phase!!!
Sh*t, that brings back some sad memories....of a game at the BAO where I lost because I forgot my psychic phase.
I fire at both of his skimmers, wrecking the AB for First Blood and taking off 2HP from his Warlord (oh, so dang lucky, his Warlord!).
Wraiths then run.
Oldcrons 2
Spoiler:
3 of his flyers come in.
Now my opponent goes on the offensive.
Shooting takes out 1 flyrant and puts 2W on the middle flyrant.
His far-right AB also shoots down my mucolid.
Bargelords then assault. I actually pass both Mindshackle tests but still, I end up losing 1 wraith and taking 1W on 2 other wraiths.
His wraithstar charges my wraithstar as well. Mindshackle goes off on a regular wraith. I then issue a challenge. I end up killing his non-whip coil wraith while losing 1 wraith of my own. My D-lord also takes 1W from his D-lord.
We both get 1 VP this turn, both for killing a unit (I killed his annihilation barge and him my flyrant).
Maelstrom VP's - NecroNids: 1, Oldcrons: 2
By the ways, at the end of the turn, his Warlord gains back 1HP from It Will Not Die.
NecroNids 3
Spoiler:
Immortals come in.
Flyrant flies forwards.
I decide to split up my flyrants. It's a risk as I won't be able to use Catalyst on my other flyrant, but I am hoping that I can potentially take down 2 night scythes this turn.
Wraiths will join in the D-lord battle.
I cast Catalyst and Warp Blast. Along with my shooting, I make all 2 of his flyers jink. Warp blast gets cover saved.
My shooting is poor and Alex's cover saves are good. I focus both flyrants onto 1 night scythe and still, I am unable to take it down, stripping it of 2HP's only.
I continue to fare badly in combat, losing another wraith. However, I do manage to pen his Warlord, thus stripping him of his Quantum Shielding. If not for It Will Not Die, he should be dead this turn.
Wraiths charge into his wraiths. I roll extremely poorly. When all is said and done, I think we both lose 1 wraith, even though I had 2x his number of attacks and T5 units compared to his T4 unit.
Oldcrons 3
Spoiler:
The last night scythe comes in.
Night scythe goes after my immortals and drop off its warriors. BTW, this is one of the night scythes that jinked last turn.
The other 2 night scythes, due to a lack of targets, fly off the table.
This is probably the best rolling for me this game, as I only lose 1 immortal to 4 TL-S7 tesla shots, 4 S5 haywire shots and 10 S4 rapid-fire shots.
His night scythe takes off another 1W from my flyrant.
The slap-fight continues as we both kill another 1 wraith. We also both do another 1W to each other's Destroyer Lords.
Finally, I am able to kill off his Warlord Bargelord in close combat with my wraiths.
I get 1VP this turn for having my immortals on Objective #1. My opponent doesn't get any (I believe his was to kill 1 unit and have 3 units in his deployment zone).
Maelstrom VP's - NecroNids: 2, Oldcrons: 2
NecroNids 4
Spoiler:
Flyrant goes after the night scythe.
Immortals advance.
Other flyrant goes after his other night scythe.
Wounded flyrant casts Warp Blast....and then dies to Perils! The shot then misses.
Immortals vaporize the unit of warriors. The cryptek does not get back up.
My last flyrant then shoots at his night scythe, but my opponent makes. every. single. jink. save.
Man, this is getting frustrating. It's Turn 4 and I cannot shoot down even a single Necron flyer!
Mindshackle goes off, my wraiths whiff and then I lose another wraith. Aargghhhh!
The only thing going for me this turn is that I am able to wipe out his wraithstar. However, I lose my Warlord and a couple of wraiths in return.
Oldcrons 4
Spoiler:
His flyer comes back in and drops his troops off onto his Objective #1.
His other night scythe goes after my immortals.
Shooting by his AB, night scythe and warriors take off 2W from my flyrant.
However, my immortals are immortal and I don't lose a single guy to his other night scythe (but to be fair, it was snapfiring).
My wraiths continue to dwindle. I do cause 1 glance but I am slowly losing this battle of attrition.
I don't believe my opponent gets either of his Maelstrom VP this turn. I get 1 for killing an enemy unit.
Maelstrom VP's - NecroNids: 3, Oldcrons: 2
NecroNids 5
Spoiler:
At this point, I was somewhat frustrated and on semi-tilt. The sensible thing to do was to go after the objectives with my wraiths. But nooooooo....
....I just felt the urge to kill his bargelord instead. F*ck the game, I thought. Kill, kill, kill!
Flyrant goes after a night scythe.
However, I do send my lone wraith to Objective #2 (which is also one of my Maelstrom objectives).
OMFG! Only 1HP of damage! At this point, I am about ready to choke my flyrants.
At least I am able to finish off his bargelord with some double-team action.
Finally, a mucolid assaults his warriors and kills 2 with its explosion.
Oldcrons 5
Spoiler:
Time for night scythes to do what night scythes do best, which is to drop troops on objectives and to win games for the army. 1 of his night scythes go after my flyrant. I believe 1 of his night scythes fly off the table after dropping off its troops.
His other night scythe goes after my wraiths.
BAM! He takes down both my flyrant and the lone wraith with shooting by 1 night scythe and both units of warriors.
The other night scythe only takes out 1 of my immortals on my Objective #1.
Last night scythe kills a wraith.
Finally, on the opposite flank, his AB shoots down 2 of my immortals (who were slowing moving towards the other Objective #2).
This turn, Alex denies me of my Maelstrom objective by killing my lone wraith on Objective #2. He then gets 1VP for achieving one of his Maelstrom objectives.
Maelstrom VP's - NecroNids: 3, Oldcrons: 3
Currently, we are tie in Maelstrom objectives. I've only got 1 Crusade objective. Alex has got 2, so if the game ends, he will win.
We roll to see if the game continues, and fortunately for me, it does.
NecroNids 6
Spoiler:
Immortals make their way to Objective #2. Unfortunately, I am just a hair short so they are forced to run instead of shooting at my opponent's troops.
Wraiths go in for the kill.
Immortals shoot down 4 warriors, but 1 get back up. Fortunately for my opponent, he gets the mysterious objective that gives +1 cover saves. Thus, his troops survive by going-to-ground for the 5+.
Wraiths then assault....
....and wipe out one of his troops.
Oldcrons 6
Spoiler:
His warriors make it to the other Objective #2. His AB then shoots down my 2 immortals.
Night scythe shoots down another wraith (from the unit of 2)....
....as well as 1 immortal.
We both get 1 Maelstrom VP this turn.
Maelstrom VP's - NecroNids: 4, Oldcrons: 4
However, Alex is still beating me on the Primary with 3 objectives to 1.
I need for the game to go on or I lose. And once again, the show must go on.
NecroNids 7
Spoiler:
Wraiths go after his warriors on the opposite Objective #2. Lone wraith goes after his unit of 3 warriors on my Objective #2.
YESSSS! I get a mighty 6" run to make it both into contesting range of Objective #2 as well as Linebreaker.
Immortals shoot at his warriors. He makes both 5+ cover. Wraith then assaults....
....and completely whiffs.
Oldcrons 7
Spoiler:
NOOOO! He shoots down the only wraith in contesting range.
Last but not least, his warriors survive another round of combat with my lone wraith to deny me my Objective #2 (they might have even taken it, but I don't remember if that was the ObSec unit of warriors or not).
In any case the game ends and we tabulate the scores.
With regards to the Crusade Primary, I've only got 1 objective - my Objective #1 inside the bastion-ruins terrain.
Alex has got at least 2, his Objective #1 with his AB and his Objective #2 which I failed to contest with my wraiths.
So Alex takes the Primary for 4-pts.
However, I am fortunate with the Maelstrom Secondary objectives. Alex basically gets 2 unachievable Maelstrom objective this turn - having 3 units in his deployment without any of my units contesting and having 1 of his units in my deployment zone. I, on the other hand, easily achieve one of my Maelstorm objectives. Thus I take the Maelstrom Secondary for 3-pts.
Maelstrom VP's - NecroNids: 5, Oldcrons: 4
Alex also kills my Warlord for a total of 5-pts. I get First Blood (his AB), killed his Warlord and achieve Linebreaker with my wraiths as well for a total of 6-pts. My NecroNids take what turned out to be an unbelievably close game 6-5.
Man, that was a close and somewhat frustrating game. Frustrating not because of my opponent, but because of the dice. I can't believe I couldn't even take out 1 night scythe with 3 flyrants, especially after 3 rounds of firing at them with 2 flyrants. Also, it took me much, much longer than I thought to kill off his wraithstar and his last bargelord in close-combat. My rolling was subpar in those combats as well. Though this game wasn't as bad as the ones I had in my last tournament (TSHFT), it was still one of those games for me. The only blessings for me was that none of Alex's characters got back up and that the game went on to Turn 7. LOL! Ok, ok....so I guess the dice wasn't all bad. But man, those night scythes!
I did make a few mistakes in this game, however. I forgot my Psychic phase on Turn 1. I didn't go after a couple of Maelstrom objectives that I could have easily gotten. I forgot to do some of the little things like run with my mucolids. I should not have put my Warlord Destroyer Lord in the front wraith unit that my opponent charged (should have left him in the back unit for the counter-assault). Overall, I felt that I could have done better with some of my positioning. Overall, my game was rather sloppy. On the other hand, my opponent played great. Other than 1 huge gaffe that he had at the beginning of the game - putting his Warlord and AB so close to each other - he played mainly a mistake-free game. Other than that 1 huge booboo, he actually played a much more careful and smarter game than me. Too bad it just wasn't meant to be....for him.
Overall, I am liking this army. It can be quite powerful and I felt that, had I been playing a little more carefully or had the dice gone a little more my way or had I gone 2nd, I could have dominated his army. But despite none of those factors going my way, I still barely managed to eke out the win. That really speaks volumes as to the resiliency of this list. It is no where near invincible, but it is definitely a top army build with the potential to take a tournament. I will definitely strongly consider this list for tournament play.
coblen wrote: I don't think penta tyrant is as amazing as you make it out to be, but I would love to see you take it to a tournament and prove me wrong.
Voted for Pentyrant for the same reason.
It's a bit sketchy to say "oooh, this list is so good, I'd just never take it to a tournament because it would be too easy."
I've never been sold on the 5-Flyrant concept due to the overwhelming lack of ground presence, so why not give it a shot and see what happens?
Well, despite my theorycrafting and dominance in very limited gameplay, it still is unproven on a grander scale. It does have something to prove....
DCannon4Life wrote: NecroNids, so long as the Necron are the 'new' ones, yes?
It's the rare player that has time to playtest against a list like this whereas you'll be able to get in 12+ games against 'likely' lists.
Yes, it would be with the Newcrons + Leviathan.
Red Corsair wrote: Well almost every list is just a different flavor of flyrant spam. Would be cool to see something different, but if your dead set on taking flyrants, why pull your punches, just take the 5. You said you wouldn't take it but who cares, it's not like taking 4 is much different lol. I think it is insanely good in BAO format, I think that should be pointed out, that list isn't nearly as good when maelstrom isn't tallied for both players at the bottom of the turn. So I say go for it and demonstrate that fact, can only lead to making their system better all while achieving your goal.
It's gona suck when you draw centstar on the relic though
Well, I do love my flyrants!
It would only suck against the centstar on the Relic if I were to go 1st, because I can still contest if I were to go 2nd.
lucian the dead one wrote: to me your wraiths is good with a destoryer cuilt or 2 and run some knights ooooooooooooooooooor run the flying bug circus with them and have dlords with destoyers cuilt and wraiths wreck the land
I would very much like to see a wraithwing + destroyer formation combo. I think they would be super strong and you have the destroyers re-rolling to hit and to wound!
Formation
1 x Destroyer Lord
3 x Destroyers (1 x heavy)
3 x Destroyers (1 x heavy)
3 x Destroyers (1 x heavy)
1 x full unit of heavy destroyers
CAD
1 x Overlord
1 x 5 man immortal squad in NS 1 x 5 man immortal squad in NS 1 x 5 man immortal squad in NS
1 x 5 man squad of wraiths with whip coils
1 x 5 man squad of wraiths with whip coils
Something like that is around 1800 I believe.. depending on your ruling with wraith's charging into cover you could remove the whip coils (saving around 60 points?) all together.. and I am not sure on what the fire power of the destroyer's end's up being, whether you need more heavies or less.. considering your Overlord in this detachment is not really doing much you could also down grade him to a Crpytek..
EDIT - I would like to be able to fit a unit of tomb blades in there as well for speed and removing low armoured models that are in cover..
I am intrigued with destroyers/heavy destroyers as well. I see a lot of potential in them. However, I do see a lot of pitfalls with them as well, depending on the matchups. I currently don't have that many destroyers yet (maybe about 75% of those on the list), but it is something that I am definitely planning on testing out, maybe as early as this coming Thursday (which would be tomorrow)!
shadowfinder wrote: I have run the combo of crons and nids. It works very well. Moves fast and hits like a ton of rocks.
I don't what to see your old crons as I feel the list will end up facing what it did at TSFT. I love to see you take Nids in one form or another. I Vote FluffKiller. LOL great name.
Thanks!
CrownAxe wrote: I want to see the Pentyrant in a tournament setting. It would give us a good idea on how competitive the list truly is.
I am curious about this as well. Is it truly as dominant as I suspect? The LVO would be the perfect venue to really find out!
felixcat wrote: I would be tempted to run a a reclamation league with one ghost ark and a twenty man warrior unit and everything else pretty bare bones - 2 canoptek harvest each with 6 wraiths of course - conclave of the burning eye with one veil.
So no - not 18 wraiths - just 12 but the C'Tan I think makes up for it nicely.
I'm very iffy on the Conclave. I did play against it once and it did ok. Not great, just ok. I think other formations there can contribute more consistently than the Conclave.
Still think that Belakor is a very worthy ally as well, seeing that shackels now cause fear, and lot of other models do, it could really boost his pshychic potential.
And he can go beat up anything in close combat as well, armour or not
jy2 wrote: It would only suck against the centstar on the Relic if I were to go 1st, because I can still contest if I were to go 2nd.
How do you figure that?
Only chance you'd have of contesting Relic against a Centstar would be if you ended the game locked in combat with it (which is drastically unlikely). Otherwise anyone with sense will shuffle the Relic to the center and build a circle around it to block you out, which isn't hard if the thing hasn't taken many casualties (which I wouldn't expect it to against Flyrants) or if other units are alive to assist with the block.
Coming up tomorrow, I am going to test out a pure Necron Decurion army build.
Also, NecroNids vs Oldcrons batrep will be concluded tomorrow. Stay tuned.....
In NecroNids turn 2, did your opponent forget that he could put the egrubs shooting on his warlord and essentially neuter your haywire to a single s5ap5 hit (rerollable 2+ with his solar thermasite)?
Maybe that's not how you guys play it but I always found that it was the best way to avoid any hits on the barge
jy2 wrote: It would only suck against the centstar on the Relic if I were to go 1st, because I can still contest if I were to go 2nd.
How do you figure that?
Only chance you'd have of contesting Relic against a Centstar would be if you ended the game locked in combat with it (which is drastically unlikely). Otherwise anyone with sense will shuffle the Relic to the center and build a circle around it to block you out, which isn't hard if the thing hasn't taken many casualties (which I wouldn't expect it to against Flyrants) or if other units are alive to assist with the block.
Because:
1) I don't expect his deathstar to still be at full strength by the end of the game.
2) 2 words....Void Shields. You might not be aware of this, but the ITC has just ruled in their FAQ that grav-weaponry can do nothing to Void Shields. Thus, put a flyrant or mawloc on top of the Relic and in VSG range and the centstar will not be able to hurt them them with their grav-cannons (unless they are firing from within 12" of the VSG).
Fortunately for me, my Pentyrant army comes with 3 void shields.
Valek wrote: Still think that Belakor is a very worthy ally as well, seeing that shackels now cause fear, and lot of other models do, it could really boost his pshychic potential.
And he can go beat up anything in close combat as well, armour or not
I would definitely run Be'lakor if I were to bring my Daemon army. He is awesome!
CaptainJay wrote: I didn't think Jet Pack models could make an assault move if they are part of a non-jet pack unit...
Think Buffmander with broadsides. Heck, think broadsides with missile drones.
willow wrote: In NecroNids turn 2, did your opponent forget that he could put the egrubs shooting on his warlord and essentially neuter your haywire to a single s5ap5 hit (rerollable 2+ with his solar thermasite)?
Maybe that's not how you guys play it but I always found that it was the best way to avoid any hits on the barge
Blasts and temp weapons automatically hit the barge. It's in the rules in the BRB.
tetrisphreak wrote: That's good to know. I didn't realize that blasts and templates auto hit chariots instead of the rider.
cue 90's cheesy commercial "The more you know.."
Yeah, it becomes especially deadly to the bargelords if you let them charge your flyrant with egrubs. D3 haywire Wall of Death overwatch can kill him outright!
tetrisphreak wrote: That's good to know. I didn't realize that blasts and templates auto hit chariots instead of the rider.
cue 90's cheesy commercial "The more you know.."
Yeah, it becomes especially deadly to the bargelords if you let them charge your flyrant with egrubs. D3 haywire Wall of Death overwatch can kill him outright!
lol oh dear. I owe my opponents some hull points then
would you ever consider going for an AV13 wall with ghost arks? or do you figure that you'd lose too much mobility that way?
tetrisphreak wrote: That's good to know. I didn't realize that blasts and templates auto hit chariots instead of the rider.
cue 90's cheesy commercial "The more you know.."
Yeah, it becomes especially deadly to the bargelords if you let them charge your flyrant with egrubs. D3 haywire Wall of Death overwatch can kill him outright!
lol oh dear. I owe my opponents some hull points then
would you ever consider going for an AV13 wall with ghost arks? or do you figure that you'd lose too much mobility that way?
Yes, I would.
As a matter of fact, I plan to run 2 ghost arks in my next matchup (coming tonight).
Think Buffmander with broadsides. Heck, think broadsides with missile drones.
Hmmm, maybe you guys play it different in the USA. I'll check my rulebook when I get chance, but I thought the argument went along the lines of
Only JP units can make assault moves.
A JP model attached to a none JP unit or a unit that contains none JP models is a mixed unit, not a JP unit.
Ergo no assault moves.
Or is this one of those rules like a mixed bike and infantry unit, so technically the unit shouldn't be able to make flat-out/run moves because each one prevents the other from doing so, but makes no sense in game...
Think Buffmander with broadsides. Heck, think broadsides with missile drones.
Hmmm, maybe you guys play it different in the USA. I'll check my rulebook when I get chance, but I thought the argument went along the lines of
Only JP units can make assault moves.
A JP model attached to a none JP unit or a unit that contains none JP models is a mixed unit, not a JP unit.
Ergo no assault moves.
Or is this one of those rules like a mixed bike and infantry unit, so technically the unit shouldn't be able to make flat-out/run moves because each one prevents the other from doing so, but makes no sense in game...
No restriction. The best in-game example of this occurring is the Tau Sniper Drone team. Generally the Firewarrior Marksman will remain stationary while the Sniper drones move up 6', shoot, and then jump back. Not only is it not restricted by the rules, it's also supported in the flavor text in it's codex entry:
“Thanks to their anti-gravitic jets, the Sniper Drones can move, momentarily steady themselves, shoot at their quarry, and then move back behind cover, making them very hard to target with ranged weapons.”
Excerpt From: Games Workshop Ltd. “Codex: Tau Empire.” iBooks.
CaptainJay wrote: Hmmm, maybe you guys play it different in the USA. I'll check my rulebook when I get chance, but I thought the argument went along the lines of
Only JP units can make assault moves.
A JP model attached to a none JP unit or a unit that contains none JP models is a mixed unit, not a JP unit.
Ergo no assault moves.
Or is this one of those rules like a mixed bike and infantry unit, so technically the unit shouldn't be able to make flat-out/run moves because each one prevents the other from doing so, but makes no sense in game...
None of these "mixed unit" restrictions have existed since 5th Edition; even then, the whole issue was predicated on a single clause, which was that units always moved at the speed of their slowest member. That led to the interpretation of any situation where one model in a unit could perform a move but the others couldn't as being illegal, as the "slowest member" would not be moving at all, so nobody was allowed to move.
6th dropped that clause and had nothing similar, so people tend to allow models in mixed units to move independently following their own rules.
CaptainJay wrote: Hmmm, maybe you guys play it different in the USA. I'll check my rulebook when I get chance, but I thought the argument went along the lines of
Only JP units can make assault moves.
A JP model attached to a none JP unit or a unit that contains none JP models is a mixed unit, not a JP unit.
Ergo no assault moves.
Or is this one of those rules like a mixed bike and infantry unit, so technically the unit shouldn't be able to make flat-out/run moves because each one prevents the other from doing so, but makes no sense in game...
None of these "mixed unit" restrictions have existed since 5th Edition; even then, the whole issue was predicated on a single clause, which was that units always moved at the speed of their slowest member. That led to the interpretation of any situation where one model in a unit could perform a move but the others couldn't as being illegal, as the "slowest member" would not be moving at all, so nobody was allowed to move.
6th dropped that clause and had nothing similar, so people tend to allow models in mixed units to move independently following their own rules.
Heh, looks like I'm getting 5th ed hang-ups. Cheers for the explanations guys.
Budzerker wrote: I voted for newcrons. Would be the biggest achievement by far.
Looks like newcrons are winning the poll. Will you stick with popular demand Jy2? Or is the poll just a reference?
Only if 1) I find a Necron build I think is strong enough to compete with the other top-tier armies and 2) if I can build/paint such an army in time. Honestly, I don't know if that would be possible, even if I use as much of my current models as possible....unless you want to consider Newcrons + allied secondary army as still bringing the Newcrons.
I'd echo a final point that a previous poster made. If you have practiced that much with Pents....then go with them. Theres little substitute for experience and knowing strenghts/weaknesses inside out.
Take them based on your "training" and roll over em like a 200lbs Greasy Fast Italian Tank as Mickey would coach.
Ratius wrote: I'd echo a final point that a previous poster made. If you have practiced that much with Pents....then go with them. Theres little substitute for experience and knowing strenghts/weaknesses inside out.
Take them based on your "training" and roll over em like a 200lbs Greasy Fast Italian Tank as Mickey would coach.
They have a very real chance of seeing tournament play.
Ratius wrote: I'd echo a final point that a previous poster made. If you have practiced that much with Pents....then go with them. Theres little substitute for experience and knowing strenghts/weaknesses inside out.
Take them based on your "training" and roll over em like a 200lbs Greasy Fast Italian Tank as Mickey would coach.
They have a very real chance of seeing tournament play.
Now I want to see J try and become both 200lbs and greasy let alone Italian!
thanatos67 wrote: Yeah so if anyone wants to challenge me and get stomped round one all ya gotta do is ask .
Jim have you figured out how to make decurion not suck yet?
It doesn't suck, though I have not come out with a list yet that I think can match up well against all the other top-tier tournament armies. Just running 24 wraiths isn't the answer IMO. Balance is key. Building a balanced but yet strong TAC Necron list is a challenge, that's for sure.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
1850 DECURION NEWCRONS VS BIKER MARINES
Had my very first practice game with the new Necrons using the actual Necron army build, the Decurion detachment. I ran the Reclamation Legion along with 1 Canoptek Harvest and 1 Destroyer Cult (it was all I could fit at 1850). With the new Decurion, don't expect to be spamming Necron units (with the exception of the destroyers in the Destroyer Cult). The new codex wasn't designed with Spam in mind, at least not at the lower points levels.
My opponent for the game, John, is practicing what is potentially his army for the LVO. He is currently the Best Dark Angels player on the ITC leaderboard, but with regards to our history, I think he's only been able to beat me twice in singles competition (not counting the 2-on-2 games we had, where we usually didn't go past Turn 3). He actually did pretty well at the BAO last year (better than I) and took Best Dark Angels player there as well. So I think this will be a good practice for my Purecrons.
Destroyer Lord - Nightmare Shroud, Warscythe, Phase Shifter
3x Destroyers
3x Destroyers
3x Destroyers
2x Heavy Destroyers
Canoptek Harvest:
Spider
3x Scarabs
6x Wraiths - 4x Whip Coils
1850 White Scars/Dark Angels
This is an approximation of his list. Honestly, I am not sure which is his Primary detachment since all of his models were painted to the Ultramarines Chapter.
White Scars:
Captain on a bike
8x Bikers - 2x Meltas, Attack bike w/Multi-melta
8x Bikers - 2x Meltas, Attack bike w/Multi-melta
8x Bikers - 2x Gravguns, Attack bike w/Multi-melta
2x Forgeworld TL-Dual Heavy Bolters (Artillery unit)
Sicarian Battle Tank
Thunderfire Cannon
Knight Castigator
Dark Angels:
Librarian
5x Tacticals - Meltagun, Drop Pod
5x Tacticals - Meltagun, Drop Pod
1. Hold Maelstrom Objective 1.
2. Hold Maelstrom Objective 2.
3. Have a scoring unit at least partially within the enemy deployment zone.
4. Destroy an Enemy Unit.
5. Destroy an Enemy Unit.
6. Have at least 3 of your and none of your opponent's scoring units in your deployment zone.
Tertiary Objectives: First Blood, Linebreaker, Slay the Warlord, 1-pt each
My army is tough as nails, as my opponent will soon find out. 3+/4+ saves with 4+ Reanimation Protocols and possibly re-rolls of '1' with my RP rolls, this army isn't going to be losing very many models, that's for sure. Moreover, I can bring back warriors every turn thanks to the ghost arks. If there's one thing that this army does well, that is survive.
Now, what remains to be seen is how good its offense is. S4 shooting vs T5 isn't exactly great, though I do bring lots of it. Destroyer shooting probably won't be as effective in this game as it would have been in others, as my opponent will be getting 3+ jink saves for his biker units. However, my wraithstar (wraiths + Destroyer Lord) should be a monster this game. It'll mulch any unit that gets in its way, including the Imperial Knight. If my opponent can take down my wraithstar, then he can potentially win this. If not, then I have a very good chance to win this game IMO.
As with my last game (NecroNids vs Oldcrons), my opponent will have 2 huge advantages this game. First, he is going 2nd in an objectives-based game against an army that isn't a very good long-range shooting army (and who is only ok at mid-range). Secondly and more importantly, ALL of his troops are ObSec! With combat squads, that's 10 ObSec units going 2nd in an Objectives-based game! That alone should put my opponent's army as the favorite and I as the underdog in this game.
3. Have a scoring unit at least partially within the enemy deployment zone.
4. Destroy an Enemy Unit.
Dark Angels:
2. Hold Maelstrom Objective 2.
5. Destroy an Enemy Unit.
My turn 1 is rather uneventful. Necrons advance. Warriors disembark from their transport and Zandrekh + immortals get in.
Note - I make a mistake here rules-wise. Only warriors + any attached IC's can embark onto ghost arks.
I make a mistake here. I was thinking that jetbikes can make a 2D6" jump move in the Assault phase. It's actually only Eldar/Dark Eldar jetbikes which can do this. In any case, my tomb blades are left out in the open.
Shooting does only 1HP of damage to his Castigator by my heavy destroyers, who try as best as they can to get behind the blocking-LOS (BLOS) terrain in the Assault phase.
Biker Marines 1
Spoiler:
Marines come in on their Maelstrom Objective #2. Bikers move forwards.
The rest of his army goes after my wraithstar.
His entire right flank - drop pod marines, thunderfire cannon and 2 bike combat squads - go after my tomb blades, but due to T5, 3+ and 4+ Reanimation Protocols (RP) with re-roll 1's, I don't lose a single jetbike.
The rest of his army then aims for my wraithstar and end up killing 1 wraith while putting 1W each on 2 other wraiths.
Holy sh*t! The Decurion Necrons are damn resilient. I took a lot of shots - from his entire army - and only end up losing 1 model!!!
I get neither of my Maelstrom objectives. John gets 1-VP for having his tacticals on Objective #2.
Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 0, Dark Angels: 1
Necrons 2
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Necrons:
3. Have a scoring unit at least partially within the enemy deployment zone.
6. Have at least 3 of your and none of your opponent's scoring units in your deployment zone.
Dark Angels:
3. Have a scoring unit at least partially within the enemy deployment zone.
4. Destroy an Enemy Unit.
Only 1 unit of destroyers come in.
Wraithstar goes after the Castigator.
The rest of my army advances.
Ghost ark and tomb blades defend my right flank.
Shooting takes out the 5-man tact squad for First Blood.
I also shoot down 2 bikers.
Other shooting go towars the knight and strip him of another 1HP.
And then we go to assault.
The knight does not survive.
I get +2VP's (counting towards the Secondary) for killing a Lord of War.
Biker Marines 2
Spoiler:
The other unit of tacticals come in. After some advice from me, he goes after my spider.
Bikers all move to within rapid-fire range of my units.
Initially, John was going to shoot at my wraithstar first but then I told him, "no, you've got to take out the spider first."
And so he does.
Without the spider, the wraithstar isn't nearly as durable. I lose3 wraiths and take 1W to every model in the unit from biker double-tap shooting.
At the end of the turn, I get 1VP for having a unit within 12" of my opponent's deployment edge (my destroyers). I also get +2VP's for killing his LoW. John gets both of his Maelstrom objectives. He has a couple of units in my deployment zone (due to infiltrating) and he killed a unit as well (my spider).
Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 3, Dark Angels: 3
Necrons 3
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Necrons:
4. Destroy an Enemy Unit.
6. Have at least 3 of your and none of your opponent's scoring units in your deployment zone.
Dark Angels:
3. Have a scoring unit at least partially within the enemy deployment zone.
6. Have at least 3 of your and none of your opponent's scoring units in your deployment zone.
Overview of the top of Turn 3.
Only 1 unit of destroyers come in. However, they mishap and go back into reserves.
I continue to try to collapse the right flank.
Wraithstar goes after the grav-bike combat squad.
Heavy destroyers fire at the unit of melta-bikes, forcing them to jink and killing 1. Ghost ark kills 1 tactical (due to snapfiring).
On my right, I wipe out the unit of 3 bikers and gun down 4 out of 5 bikers from the other squad.
D-lord then makes the charge against the bikers. However, I lose both of my wraiths to Overwatch!
He kills 3 bikers and they break.
Finally, scarabs assault the tactical marines. I lose 1 scarab base and kill 1 marine only.
Biker Marines 3
Spoiler:
D-lord, prepare to meet your maker.
Biker captain joins the unit of 2 bikers and they prepare to charge.
Melta bikers go after my ghost ark (with my Warlord inside). My ghost ark, however, jinks off their shots.
As predicted, the D-lord does not survive.
Thunderfire cannon (TFC) takes out 1 destroyer.
Finally, he puts 1W on a heavy destroyer with the Sicarian.
We then go to assault, where his Captain joins into the fray.
I end up losing 2 more scarab bases.
We both get 1VP this turn, me for killing a unit (bikers) and John for having a unit (or rather, multiple units) in my deployment zone.
Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 4, Dark Angels: 4
Necrons 4
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Necrons:
1. Hold Maelstrom Objective 1.
2. Hold Maelstrom Objective 2.
Dark Angels:
1. Hold Maelstrom Objective 1.
6. Have at least 3 of your and none of your opponent's scoring units in your deployment zone.
Destroyers finally come in.
I go after his bikes.
I also need to take out his ObSec drop pod denying my Maelstrom Objective #2.
Shooting wipes out a unit of 4 bikers.
Ghost ark and the 10 warriors inside take out the drop pod with 30 gauss shots to claim Maelstrom Objective #2.
I also force 2 bike units to jink with my destroyers, but don't manage to kill anyone else.
In combat, marines kill another 2 scarab bases. Warlord and his unit consolidates as they cannot pile into combat.
Biker Marines 4
Spoiler:
Unit of 2 bikers (the ones that just got out of combat with the scarabs) turbo-boost to take Maelstrom Objective #1 over my warriors.
The rest of his army turns their attention to my destroyers out in the middle of nowhere.
Captain moves onto my Emperor's Will objective.
Shooting only manages to kill 1 destroyer.
Lone biker makes a 12" charge.
Actually, the other unit of bikers also make a 12" charge!!!
However, my destroyers make their saves/RP attempts and combat is drawn.
Once again, we both get 1-VP this turn. My ghost ark holds Objective #2 and his unit of 2 ObSec bikers take Objective #1 away from my warriors.
Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 5, Dark Angels: 5
Necrons 5
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Necrons:
2. Hold Maelstrom Objective 2.
6. Have at least 3 of your and none of your opponent's scoring units in your deployment zone.
Dark Angels:
4. Destroy an Enemy Unit.
5. Destroy an Enemy Unit.
Warriors disembark. I then fire and take out his techmarine, thus claiming my opponent's Emperor's Will objective.
Jetbikes turbo-boost. They get ready to deal with whoever tries to hold onto my Emperor's Will objective next turn (IF there is a next turn).
I am unable to kill the unit of 2 bikers! 1 lives, even after 20 rapid-fire shots and 2 heavy destroyer lascannons.
Combat is drawn once again. The larger unit of bikers hit-&-run out of combat.
In assault, heavy destroyers jump onto Objective #2.
Last but not least, my destroyers make an 11" assault jump to contest my Emperor's Will objective.
Biker Marines 5
Spoiler:
John tries desperately to get both Maelstrom objectives. Captain and biker unit prepare to charge my last remaining scarab.
Shooting takes down 2 tomb blades. They hold.
Bikers re-charge my destroyers. Fortunately for me, I don't fail a save/RP save.
He then charges the scarab and take it out.
ObSec tacticals then consolidate 6" to take my Emperor's Will objective.
Due to the store closing, we call it here.
We both get 1-VP again this turn. I take Objective #2. He kills one of my units. Thus, we draw on the Secondary.
Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 6, Dark Angels: 6
He takes my Emperor's Will objective....
....and I take his as well. Thus, we both draw on Primary as well.
We both have Linebreaker. His has bikers, tactical squad and Sicarian in my deployment zone. I have destroyers and warriors in his.
HOWEVER, the tiebreaker here is that I've got First Blood (the combat squad). With that, my Necrons take it 2-1.
Crushing Victory to the Metallic Dead - Necrons!!!
Ok, so here are my thoughts on the new Necrons with the Decurion detachment. It is super-resilient. However, it's offense is also somewhat stagnant. I've got basically 1 hard-hitting hammer unit, my wraithstar, but as soon as it went down, the offense of the rest of the army was just mediocre. To be fair, however, I think the Destroyer Cult would have done better against another army. But against White Scars, where their jink saves are the same as their armor saves, the effectiveness of the destroyer offense just wasn't that great.
Also, mobility is an issue with this army. Sure the wraithstar is fast. Sure, my tomb blades are fast. And it's great that destroyers can deepstrike all over the table. However, the core of my army is somewhat slow (without the night scythes) and can be trapped by the more aggressive armies. The new Decurion just does not have the speed that made the previous Necrons sooooo good. Currently, you just can't do the last turn objective-grab/contest that has won so many games for me before (and if you do, it will be at a premium in terms of cost).
While the +1 to RP is really good, I do miss the Objective Secured status of a regular Combined Arms Detachment. Had my troops been ObSec, I could have taken both the Primary and the Secondary. But losing ObSec means that you really have to plan in advance how you are going to take/hold objectives, especially against an ObSec army like marines and mechdar.
On a brighter note, the new Decurion Necrons are tough as f*ck! If it had been any other opponent other than John, I am sure (s)he would be frustrated as heck against an army that just doesn't die. I'll give that to the Newcrons - it just may be one of the most resilient armies if you're talking about the average builds. Now if only it's offense can keep up with its defense, I think we'd have another top-tier army. But my early impressions of the Decurion detachment is that it is an upper-middle to lower-upper-tiered army. The loss of some offense, the loss of some speed and the loss of Objective Secured status means that it will have problems against the other top-tier builds. In my opinion, if you want to build a top-tier Necron army, you're going to have to go with a normal CAD build. But I'd be more than happy if someone can prove me wrong on this.
What if you ran necron cad+canoptek harvest? I really like the combo of reanimation wraiths+orikan's special ability. Overal I think orikan is my favorite special character in newcrons because he's a cheap buff character that can and should eventually become a combat beast during the game. Bunkering him into the wraithstar just makes it that much more likely that he'll survive till beast mode happens, and he makes wraithstar so hard to kill its basically on par with screamer star for durability (3++ rerolling 1s with 4+ reanimation and a 2+/4++ rerolling 1s dlord with 4+ reanimation). I'm just not sure what to add to the rest of that list to make it work past that wraithstar...maybe spam out spyders and scarabs?
thanatos67 wrote: What if you ran necron cad+canoptek harvest? I really like the combo of reanimation wraiths+orikan's special ability. Overal I think orikan is my favorite special character in newcrons because he's a cheap buff character that can and should eventually become a combat beast during the game. Bunkering him into the wraithstar just makes it that much more likely that he'll survive till beast mode happens, and he makes wraithstar so hard to kill its basically on par with screamer star for durability (3++ rerolling 1s with 4+ reanimation and a 2+/4++ rerolling 1s dlord with 4+ reanimation). I'm just not sure what to add to the rest of that list to make it work past that wraithstar...maybe spam out spyders and scarabs?
It's a good combo and I plan to run it myself. However, the problem I am finding with wraithspam is in its ability (or rather, inability) to deal with flyer armies. Anti-air, which was once a strength of the army, has now become a liability with the new Necrons. Flyrant-spam, the stormguppy formation, etc. will be a problem for an unbalanced Necron list (i.e. like wraithspam). Now flyers might have problems removing all of those wraiths, but still, a flyer-heavy army going 2nd can just play to the objectives on Turn 5 while focusing on the wraiths throughout the game. With the volume-of-fire of a build like flyrant-spam or the Tyrannic War Veterans, they can and they will thin out the wraiths over time, at least enough to make it hard for wraiths to contest multiple objectives near the end of the game.
As good as the Canoptek Harvest formation is, it has a weakness that can be easily exploited. Just kill the spider. If you should hide the spider, then you limit the mobility of the wraiths as they lose their RP should they move more than 12" from the spider. More experienced generals, however, will focus on the units easier to kill first, namely the spider and the naked wraith units.
Anti-air is one of the main reasons why I've allied Tyranids to Necrons. I think they actually complement each other very well. Flyrants to rule the skies and wraiths to dominate the ground. Together, it is a very synergistic combo IMO. Now how to fit Orikan in there, hmmmm....
thanatos67 wrote: What if you ran necron cad+canoptek harvest? I really like the combo of reanimation wraiths+orikan's special ability. Overal I think orikan is my favorite special character in newcrons because he's a cheap buff character that can and should eventually become a combat beast during the game. Bunkering him into the wraithstar just makes it that much more likely that he'll survive till beast mode happens, and he makes wraithstar so hard to kill its basically on par with screamer star for durability (3++ rerolling 1s with 4+ reanimation and a 2+/4++ rerolling 1s dlord with 4+ reanimation). I'm just not sure what to add to the rest of that list to make it work past that wraithstar...maybe spam out spyders and scarabs?
It's a good combo and I plan to run it myself. However, the problem I am finding with wraithspam is in its ability (or rather, inability) to deal with flyer armies. Anti-air, which was once a strength of the army, has now become a liability with the new Necrons. Flyrant-spam, the stormguppy formation, etc. will be a problem for an unbalanced Necron list (i.e. like wraithspam). Now flyers might have problems removing all of those wraiths, but still, a flyer-heavy army going 2nd can just play to the objectives on Turn 5 while focusing on the wraiths throughout the game. With the volume-of-fire of a build like flyrant-spam or the Tyrannic War Veterans, they can and they will thin out the wraiths over time, at least enough to make it hard for wraiths to contest multiple objectives near the end of the game.
As good as the Canoptek Harvest formation is, it has a weakness that can be easily exploited. Just kill the spider. If you should hide the spider, then you limit the mobility of the wraiths as they lose their RP should they move more than 12" from the spider. More experienced generals, however, will focus on the units easier to kill first, namely the spider and the naked wraith units.
Anti-air is one of the main reasons why I've allied Tyranids to Necrons. I think they actually complement each other very well. Flyrants to rule the skies and wraiths to dominate the ground. Together, it is a very synergistic combo IMO. Now how to fit Orikan in there, hmmmm....
The hitch in that is I believe orikans reroll only affects models in his unit that have reanimation, which if you take something like cron cad+leviathan you won't have. If you can get it in decurion that'd work, but i think you suck up too many pts between making a functioning reclamation legion and all the points you have to dump in just to get access to orikan in the court+the harvest formation, and no destroyer lord. So you'd either roll with a bare bones reclamation legion or cut down to 2 flyrants.
thanatos67 wrote: The hitch in that is I believe orikans reroll only affects models in his unit that have reanimation, which if you take something like cron cad+leviathan you won't have. If you can get it in decurion that'd work, but i think you suck up too many pts between making a functioning reclamation legion and all the points you have to dump in just to get access to orikan in the court+the harvest formation, and no destroyer lord. So you'd either roll with a bare bones reclamation legion or cut down to 2 flyrants.
Even if the unit does not have RP, Orikan is still useful. Don't forget that Orikan allows the unit to re-roll saves of '1'. Thus, put a D-lord in front and you have a 2+ re-rollable tank. Wraiths will basically have a 2+ save with the re-roll 1's. And he will still benefit your D-lord with 4+ RP at the very least.
Personally, in my NecroNid army, if I were to take Orikan, I'd drop some wraiths/whip coils instead. Or I just wouldn't run Orikan. Going to have to playtest him in my list.
Jim have you considered running a maxed out Flayer squad with a Royal Court added? Run Nemesor in a Night Scythe and put Obyron in the Flayers so on turn two when you fly on with Nemesor you can use Obyron's ability to pick up the whole deathstar and deepstrike them within 12" of the Night Scythe without scattering. Plus you can run the Solar Pulse artifact and a Ressurection Orb to really boost up the defense of that unit for one turn. Then on the next turn you can cause havoc.
y0disisray wrote: Jim have you considered running a maxed out Flayer squad with a Royal Court added? Run Nemesor in a Night Scythe and put Obyron in the Flayers so on turn two when you fly on with Nemesor you can use Obyron's ability to pick up the whole deathstar and deepstrike them within 12" of the Night Scythe without scattering. Plus you can run the Solar Pulse artifact and a Ressurection Orb to really boost up the defense of that unit for one turn. Then on the next turn you can cause havoc.
If I were to run maxed out flayed ones, I'd rather do it with the D-lord for some tanking/Prefered Enemy and either Szeras for the 6" +1 RP or Orikan. With Infiltrate, your really don't need the Teleport shenanigans....that'll only slow you down. Infiltrate and there is a good chance you will assault on T2. Wait for flyer to come in on T2 and then teleport means that the earliest you could assault would be T3....assuming Zandrehk even comes in on T2.
If you want to run the Veil + Solar Staff trick, then I'd recommend doing so with Lychguards or Praetorians (preferably Praetorians).
BTW, I don't have the models to spam a flayed one Necron army, at least not yet.
In my opinion from choices you've proposed Lance wit Rants is the best. There is so few good counters to that. I've played against the same list once and I have to admit it's hard as f*k.
But I belive, newcrons gonna be more interesting.
Tell me how do you competetive guys in US interpret Canoptek Harvest wording. May I have only 1 spyder in formation? Or may I buy it and then buy him upgrades normally as described in heavy support section. Which means not only wargear but including two more spyders to this one as well? I'm looking forward to see a faq, but i know it's a pipe dream only.
SwistakCZC wrote: In my opinion from choices you've proposed Lance wit Rants is the best. There is so few good counters to that. I've played against the same list once and I have to admit it's hard as f*k.
But I belive, newcrons gonna be more interesting.
Tell me how do you competetive guys in US interpret Canoptek Harvest wording. May I have only 1 spyder in formation? Or may I buy it and then buy him upgrades normally as described in heavy support section. Which means not only wargear but including two more spyders to this one as well? I'm looking forward to see a faq, but i know it's a pipe dream only.
I know for the LVO and all of their other tournaments they're going to rule that it is literally only one Spyder. I'm sure you can purchase all of the upgrades except adding additional Spyders. I feel this is both RAW and RAI.
SwistakCZC wrote: In my opinion from choices you've proposed Lance wit Rants is the best. There is so few good counters to that. I've played against the same list once and I have to admit it's hard as f*k.
But I belive, newcrons gonna be more interesting.
Tell me how do you competetive guys in US interpret Canoptek Harvest wording. May I have only 1 spyder in formation? Or may I buy it and then buy him upgrades normally as described in heavy support section. Which means not only wargear but including two more spyders to this one as well? I'm looking forward to see a faq, but i know it's a pipe dream only.
y0disisray wrote: I know for the LVO and all of their other tournaments they're going to rule that it is literally only one Spyder. I'm sure you can purchase all of the upgrades except adding additional Spyders. I feel this is both RAW and RAI.
Agreed with y0disisray.
swanson4969 wrote: I meant two detachments. But doesn't he have three? White Scars CAD, Dark Angel Allied Detachment and Imperial Knight Detachemnt?
The Knight Castigator does not count as a separate detachment. He is part of the Primary detachment. Each Primary can take 1 Lord of War as part of the detachment.
I guess one of the perks about publishing a report online is that you can embarass yourself in front of millions of people when you make a mistake. Lol.
I suppose its better to do so in a practice game, where you can use the excuse of this-is-my-first-time-doing-it, than to do it in the actual tournament.
There has only been 5000 views of this thread and I bet a couple thousand are repeats. Millions? Nah.
IMO you need to bring what YOU want to bring, not what your 'fans' want. Play for yourself and your enjoyment, not others. This is the path to enlightenment young Padawan.
DarthDiggler wrote: There has only been 5000 views of this thread and I bet a couple thousand are repeats. Millions? Nah.
IMO you need to bring what YOU want to bring, not what your 'fans' want. Play for yourself and your enjoyment, not others. This is the path to enlightenment young Padawan.
Ok, ok....so maybe I was off by 1 or 2 viewers.
Don't worry. Choice #1 is looking more and more unlikely, unfortunately. #2 and #3 are both armies I would love to bring to the tournament.
I was wondering, is there any reason you aren't taking particale casters on the wraiths for the S6 shot and +1A, or does it jump the cost just above the "too high" mark.
Ansel Darach wrote: I was wondering, is there any reason you aren't taking particale casters on the wraiths for the S6 shot and +1A, or does it jump the cost just above the "too high" mark.
Just curious to hear your thoughts on that.
It doesnt necessarily give you the +1 Atk. Wraiths do not have a CCW listed in their profile to match the pistol to.
Particle casters no longer confers +1 A to the wraiths. They have rending now as a special rule but no close combat weapon that gives it to them. Also, it has been pointed out previously but whenever you're shooting with wraiths, you're not running with them
Automatically Appended Next Post: Idea for a Fluff-killer list:
2 Flyrants
3 Mucolids
D Lord w/phase shifter, warscythe, nightmare shroud, res orb
Orikan
Ansel Darach wrote: I was wondering, is there any reason you aren't taking particale casters on the wraiths for the S6 shot and +1A, or does it jump the cost just above the "too high" mark.
Just curious to hear your thoughts on that.
It doesnt necessarily give you the +1 Atk. Wraiths do not have a CCW listed in their profile to match the pistol to.
luke1705 wrote:Particle casters no longer confers +1 A to the wraiths. They have rending now as a special rule but no close combat weapon that gives it to them. Also, it has been pointed out previously but whenever you're shooting with wraiths, you're not running with them
Um.....Whipcoils are a CCW, and are almost always taken.
Also since rending is on the wraith the S6 shot will have rending as well.
thanatos67 wrote: The hitch in that is I believe orikans reroll only affects models in his unit that have reanimation, which if you take something like cron cad+leviathan you won't have. If you can get it in decurion that'd work, but i think you suck up too many pts between making a functioning reclamation legion and all the points you have to dump in just to get access to orikan in the court+the harvest formation, and no destroyer lord. So you'd either roll with a bare bones reclamation legion or cut down to 2 flyrants.
Even if the unit does not have RP, Orikan is still useful. Don't forget that Orikan allows the unit to re-roll saves of '1'. Thus, put a D-lord in front and you have a 2+ re-rollable tank. Wraiths will basically have a 2+ save with the re-roll 1's. And he will still benefit your D-lord with 4+ RP at the very least.
Personally, in my NecroNid army, if I were to take Orikan, I'd drop some wraiths/whip coils instead. Or I just wouldn't run Orikan. Going to have to playtest him in my list.
I'd consider a Barge Lord instead of a Lord on foot.
With his increased mobility he could take on isolated units or tanks.
luke1705 wrote: Particle casters no longer confers +1 A to the wraiths. They have rending now as a special rule but no close combat weapon that gives it to them. Also, it has been pointed out previously but whenever you're shooting with wraiths, you're not running with them
Automatically Appended Next Post: Idea for a Fluff-killer list:
2 Flyrants
3 Mucolids
D Lord w/phase shifter, warscythe, nightmare shroud, res orb
Orikan
thanatos67 wrote: The hitch in that is I believe orikans reroll only affects models in his unit that have reanimation, which if you take something like cron cad+leviathan you won't have. If you can get it in decurion that'd work, but i think you suck up too many pts between making a functioning reclamation legion and all the points you have to dump in just to get access to orikan in the court+the harvest formation, and no destroyer lord. So you'd either roll with a bare bones reclamation legion or cut down to 2 flyrants.
Even if the unit does not have RP, Orikan is still useful. Don't forget that Orikan allows the unit to re-roll saves of '1'. Thus, put a D-lord in front and you have a 2+ re-rollable tank. Wraiths will basically have a 2+ save with the re-roll 1's. And he will still benefit your D-lord with 4+ RP at the very least.
Personally, in my NecroNid army, if I were to take Orikan, I'd drop some wraiths/whip coils instead. Or I just wouldn't run Orikan. Going to have to playtest him in my list.
I'd consider a Barge Lord instead of a Lord on foot.
With his increased mobility he could take on isolated units or tanks.
A CCB is good also, depending on the list. However, I've tried the bargelord already. For this game, I wanted to test out Zandrekh and his force-multiplying powers.
In a wraithwing list, one of my concerns is the VoF that many top tournament armies can put out (i.e. mechdar, Tau, etc.). Thus, I'm most likely going to keep my tanking D-lord for his unit buffing abilities as well as his ability to tank incoming shots.
Tomb King wrote: My turn 1 is rather uneventful. Necrons advance. Warriors disembark from their transport and Zandrekh + immortals get in.
Not sure if its been mentioned but this isnt allowed. Warriors only...
It's been mentioned.
Apologies then, also does killing the spyder remove the benefits or do they still last until the necron players next turn? It appears the game is closer then expected. You killed the solo imperial knight pretty easily though.
Apologies then, also does killing the spyder remove the benefits or do they still last until the necron players next turn? It appears the game is closer then expected.
Yep, in JY2's batrep, the Wraithstar should retain their Reanimation Protocols until the start of his next turn. Unless the necron player goes 2nd and gets alpha striked, the spyder will have done its job of making the wraiths nearly invulnerable to ranged weaponry for up to at least the start of the necron players' turn 3.
in your Test games JY have you noticed that your games go a lot longer? Played a couple times against the new necrons and I swear the games go 30 to 45 minutes longer. It feels like its because of all the extra RP saves and models not dieing as fast.
So by turn 3 or 4 there is still 30% more models on the board then what they used to be like.
Deshkar wrote: Yep, in JY2's batrep, the Wraithstar should retain their Reanimation Protocols until the start of his next turn. Unless the necron player goes 2nd and gets alpha striked, the spyder will have done its job of making the wraiths nearly invulnerable to ranged weaponry for up to at least the start of the necron players' turn 3.
This is not very clear, but I believe it goes as soon as the spider is killed, as you are no longer within 12 inches of the spider, which is the primary clause... Just my opinion and how I am playing it at the moment. (lets hope this is the way or this formation is going keep peeing people off)
I'm more than a little surprised that the Wraiths took down that Knight so quickly (did you just roll a lot of 6s to glance/pen, or did the D-Lord do a lot of the damage?) Otherwise, the report so far is convincing me that Necrons became more, not less, competitive. That 4+ RP is going to be a real pain for most armies to deal with.
I'm a little curious about how the organization of the previous NecroNids force works. It's obviously not using an Allied Detachment-- are you actually using a combined + Leviathan Detachment? (I'm coming back into the game after a short hiatus, and I'm a bit rusty on how the the 7th ed detachments work-- can you actually make a list with two full, non-Allied detachments like that?)
Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote: I'm more than a little surprised that the Wraiths took down that Knight so quickly (did you just roll a lot of 6s to glance/pen, or did the D-Lord do a lot of the damage?) Otherwise, the report so far is convincing me that Necrons became more, not less, competitive. That 4+ RP is going to be a real pain for most armies to deal with.
I'm a little curious about how the organization of the previous NecroNids force works. It's obviously not using an Allied Detachment-- are you actually using a combined + Leviathan Detachment? (I'm coming back into the game after a short hiatus, and I'm a bit rusty on how the the new detachments work-- can you actually make a list with two full, non-Allied detachments like that?)
New Necrons are a lot more durable with the Decurion formation but the damage output is not as great since there is a requirement to take so many extra models in the auxillaries. I have been testing out a list for LVO, without a solid auxillary formation such as the destroyer cult, the list just takes a lot of damage but doesn't dish it out well at all. For example, I tried a list with the Annihilation nexus and royal court and the list just didn't pack any punch. The tesla nerf was a lot more serious than I thought after running about five games with the new codex and Annihilation barges are not worth the points.
I have a feeling that the Judicator Battalion probably isn't competitive (stalker is way too easy to kill), the Annihilation Nexus isn't competitive (Doomsday arks are useless if you jink and annihilation barges are too expensive), and the doomscythe formation isn't competitive (jinking the doomscythes makes them impotent). However, Flayed ones are amazing and the deathmarks are still great (especially with relentless). Both units are inexpensive and pack a lot of punch for the points. I haven't tested the canopatek swarm. Seems like a lot of extra models I wouldn't necessarily take in a regular list.
Flayed ones may never get into combat but your opponent will do everything he can to stay as far away from them as possible and you don't need to take a lot of them. If your opponent does let them get into melee, chances are it will be expensive for him. 10 flayed ones could destroy a blob of guard or orks or brood of any sort of small tyranids and still have models left over.
Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote: I'm more than a little surprised that the Wraiths took down that Knight so quickly (did you just roll a lot of 6s to glance/pen, or did the D-Lord do a lot of the damage?) Otherwise, the report so far is convincing me that Necrons became more, not less, competitive. That 4+ RP is going to be a real pain for most armies to deal with.
I'm a little curious about how the organization of the previous NecroNids force works. It's obviously not using an Allied Detachment-- are you actually using a combined + Leviathan Detachment? (I'm coming back into the game after a short hiatus, and I'm a bit rusty on how the the new detachments work-- can you actually make a list with two full, non-Allied detachments like that?)
New Necrons are a lot more durable with the Decurion formation but the damage output is not as great since there is a requirement to take so many extra models in the auxillaries. I have been testing out a list for LVO, without a solid auxillary formation such as the destroyer cult, the list just takes a lot of damage but doesn't dish it out well at all. For example, I tried a list with the Annihilation nexus and royal court and the list just didn't pack any punch. The tesla nerf was a lot more serious than I thought after running about five games with the new codex and Annihilation barges are not worth the points.
I have a feeling that the Judicator Battalion probably isn't competitive (stalker is way too easy to kill), the Annihilation Nexus isn't competitive (Doomsday arks are useless if you jink and annihilation barges are too expensive), and the doomscythe formation isn't competitive (jinking the doomscythes makes them impotent). However, Flayed ones are amazing and the deathmarks are still great (especially with relentless). Both units are inexpensive and pack a lot of punch for the points. I haven't tested the canopatek swarm. Seems like a lot of extra models I wouldn't necessarily take in a regular list.
Flayed ones may never get into combat but your opponent will do everything he can to stay as far away from them as possible and you don't need to take a lot of them. If your opponent does let them get into melee, chances are it will be expensive for him. 10 flayed ones could destroy a blob of guard or orks or brood of any sort of small tyranids and still have models left over.
Yea tomb blades and flayed ones are the true super hitters in the codex.
I feel that the Judacator Battalion requires a minimum 2 Stalkers to run well. From there if you take NS with the Praetorians its pretty solid. Just use the formation buff to help the NS kill Flyers/FMC.
Doomsday Arks are just fine in cover. You wouldn't need to jink and it isn't hard to get that 25% as they are fairly low to the ground. That and AV13 to start with 4 hull points makes them hit hard. And an okay cointer to Wraiths.
Deshkar wrote: Yep, in JY2's batrep, the Wraithstar should retain their Reanimation Protocols until the start of his next turn. Unless the necron player goes 2nd and gets alpha striked, the spyder will have done its job of making the wraiths nearly invulnerable to ranged weaponry for up to at least the start of the necron players' turn 3.
This is not very clear, but I believe it goes as soon as the spider is killed, as you are no longer within 12 inches of the spider, which is the primary clause... Just my opinion and how I am playing it at the moment. (lets hope this is the way or this formation is going keep peeing people off)
SwistakCZC wrote: In my opinion from choices you've proposed Lance wit Rants is the best. There is so few good counters to that. I've played against the same list once and I have to admit it's hard as f*k.
But I belive, newcrons gonna be more interesting.
Tell me how do you competetive guys in US interpret Canoptek Harvest wording. May I have only 1 spyder in formation? Or may I buy it and then buy him upgrades normally as described in heavy support section. Which means not only wargear but including two more spyders to this one as well? I'm looking forward to see a faq, but i know it's a pipe dream only.
My Adlance-flyrant army is not as strong because it will have problems in the Maelstrom scenarios. Flyrants don't want to land and knights don't want to split up. As long as the opponent spreads out the objectives, I will have trouble with Secondaries in the BAO format.
Newcrons will be interesting as well as very challenging to play, but honestly, if I run them, then I feel that my chances of winning isn't very high (compared to some of the other armies that I have in my poll).
Ansel Darach wrote: I was wondering, is there any reason you aren't taking particale casters on the wraiths for the S6 shot and +1A, or does it jump the cost just above the "too high" mark.
Just curious to hear your thoughts on that.
I don't interpret the particle casters to give +1A to the wraiths and will not play it as such (unless it is actually FAQ'd by the tournament as giving the +1A).
MLKTH wrote: ^You can't take both whip coils and casters. It's "one of the following" type of deal.
Tomb King wrote: My turn 1 is rather uneventful. Necrons advance. Warriors disembark from their transport and Zandrekh + immortals get in.
Not sure if its been mentioned but this isnt allowed. Warriors only...
It's been mentioned.
Apologies then, also does killing the spyder remove the benefits or do they still last until the necron players next turn? It appears the game is closer then expected. You killed the solo imperial knight pretty easily though.
No worries.
With regards to the spider benefits, honestly, I hadn't really thought that much about it. I tend to play more conservatively (as in no, they don't last) but I also tend to play it the way the majority of the people do. I guess I'll just have to check with the TO's with regards to how they would rule it.
Red Corsair wrote: His first turn drop pod was kind of a waste, he didn't gain much territory using where he did and he shot at a horrible target.
Really surprised you man handled his knight like that You must have rolled pretty hot on your rends, or he whiffed and your D lord punked it?
He did it mainly to grab a Maelstrom objective (#2). But to be fair, I don't think he realized just how resilient the Newcrons were.
I took off 1HP on T1 with shooting. I then took off another 1HP on T2 with shooting, so when I charged, he only had 4HP remaining.
Wraiths (with Prefered Enemy) took off 2HP with their assault. 20 attacks, about 12 hits due to PE, 2 glances/pens....that's about average.
D-lord then hit 3 times out of 4 attacks and penned with all 3 attacks.
Deshkar wrote: Yep, in JY2's batrep, the Wraithstar should retain their Reanimation Protocols until the start of his next turn. Unless the necron player goes 2nd and gets alpha striked, the spyder will have done its job of making the wraiths nearly invulnerable to ranged weaponry for up to at least the start of the necron players' turn 3.
If that is how the majority of the people interpret it, then I will play it that way in the future.
But first, I will check with the TO (for the LVO) to see their rulings on it.
Darkwynn wrote: in your Test games JY have you noticed that your games go a lot longer? Played a couple times against the new necrons and I swear the games go 30 to 45 minutes longer. It feels like its because of all the extra RP saves and models not dieing as fast.
So by turn 3 or 4 there is still 30% more models on the board then what they used to be like.
Not really. I tend to play somewhat faster than most other people. The new RP is just like FNP. It'll only take more time if the players aren't very familiar with it.
This game actually took longer than normal to play, but that is mainly because my opponent takes his time.
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SwistakCZC wrote: Ive changed my mind, take the fluffkillah, not newcrons, wraiths with triple rant are even too fab man.
Had another test game with it against mechdar. It's turning out to be a very strong build.
Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote: I'm more than a little surprised that the Wraiths took down that Knight so quickly (did you just roll a lot of 6s to glance/pen, or did the D-Lord do a lot of the damage?) Otherwise, the report so far is convincing me that Necrons became more, not less, competitive. That 4+ RP is going to be a real pain for most armies to deal with.
I'm a little curious about how the organization of the previous NecroNids force works. It's obviously not using an Allied Detachment-- are you actually using a combined + Leviathan Detachment? (I'm coming back into the game after a short hiatus, and I'm a bit rusty on how the the 7th ed detachments work-- can you actually make a list with two full, non-Allied detachments like that?)
I did manage to strip off 2HP's with 2 turns of shooting before charging in with my wraithstar. The wraithstar itself did 5HP of damage, 2 for the wraiths and 3 for the D-lord. I swear, with T6, 2+/4++ and 4+++ RP re-rolling 1's, that guy is a major bada$$!
NecroNids consists of Newcron CAD + Leviathan Detachment. It's legal as long as the detachments are unique.
Warmonger2757 wrote: New Necrons are a lot more durable with the Decurion formation but the damage output is not as great since there is a requirement to take so many extra models in the auxillaries. I have been testing out a list for LVO, without a solid auxillary formation such as the destroyer cult, the list just takes a lot of damage but doesn't dish it out well at all. For example, I tried a list with the Annihilation nexus and royal court and the list just didn't pack any punch. The tesla nerf was a lot more serious than I thought after running about five games with the new codex and Annihilation barges are not worth the points.
I have a feeling that the Judicator Battalion probably isn't competitive (stalker is way too easy to kill), the Annihilation Nexus isn't competitive (Doomsday arks are useless if you jink and annihilation barges are too expensive), and the doomscythe formation isn't competitive (jinking the doomscythes makes them impotent). However, Flayed ones are amazing and the deathmarks are still great (especially with relentless). Both units are inexpensive and pack a lot of punch for the points. I haven't tested the canopatek swarm. Seems like a lot of extra models I wouldn't necessarily take in a regular list.
Flayed ones may never get into combat but your opponent will do everything he can to stay as far away from them as possible and you don't need to take a lot of them. If your opponent does let them get into melee, chances are it will be expensive for him. 10 flayed ones could destroy a blob of guard or orks or brood of any sort of small tyranids and still have models left over.
Bingo! Give that man a cigar! The Decurion trades offense for defense. This army can win, but it usually won't win big.
col_impact wrote: Yea tomb blades and flayed ones are the true super hitters in the codex.
You left out the wraiths! How could you do that!?!
BrotherGecko wrote: I feel that the Judacator Battalion requires a minimum 2 Stalkers to run well. From there if you take NS with the Praetorians its pretty solid. Just use the formation buff to help the NS kill Flyers/FMC.
Doomsday Arks are just fine in cover. You wouldn't need to jink and it isn't hard to get that 25% as they are fairly low to the ground. That and AV13 to start with 4 hull points makes them hit hard. And an okay cointer to Wraiths.
I wouldn't overdo it with the JB. The Triarch Stalker is more of a support, force-multiplier unit than an actual offensive one. The Decurion suffers from the lack of offense. I think you need to focus on getting more firepower/offense into the army. Don't overdo it with the support units.
Also, there is some controversy with regards to Praetorians and Night Scythes. My recommendation is that you don't buy them Night Scythes.
BrotherGecko wrote: I feel that the Judacator Battalion requires a minimum 2 Stalkers to run well. From there if you take NS with the Praetorians its pretty solid. Just use the formation buff to help the NS kill Flyers/FMC.
Doomsday Arks are just fine in cover. You wouldn't need to jink and it isn't hard to get that 25% as they are fairly low to the ground. That and AV13 to start with 4 hull points makes them hit hard. And an okay cointer to Wraiths.
In my experience, doomsday arks don't make it much past turn 2. I play against a lot of eldar players and once that first pen hit happens, av 11 doesn't protect the ark at all.
Being able to reroll hits and reroll wounds and armour penetration with the Night Scythes, make them pretty great with the Judicator Battallion but it hinges on the Triarch STalker remaining alive.
Possibly a YMDC question - If the Praetorians take Night Scythes, are they considered part of the formation? They are a separate unit from the Praetorians, and the only listed models in the formation are the praetorians and the stalker(s).
I did manage to strip off 2HP's with 2 turns of shooting before charging in with my wraithstar. The wraithstar itself did 5HP of damage, 2 for the wraiths and 3 for the D-lord. I swear, with T6, 2+/4++ and 4+++ RP re-rolling 1's, that guy is a major bada$$!
Great battle report as always. I had one question though, you claim your D-lord was getting rerolls of 1's on his RP, how? I thought in the decurion you had to be within 12" of the reclemation HQ to receive that, which was Zahndrek in your list correct?
I did manage to strip off 2HP's with 2 turns of shooting before charging in with my wraithstar. The wraithstar itself did 5HP of damage, 2 for the wraiths and 3 for the D-lord. I swear, with T6, 2+/4++ and 4+++ RP re-rolling 1's, that guy is a major bada$$!
Great battle report as always. I had one question though, you claim your D-lord was getting rerolls of 1's on his RP, how? I thought in the decurion you had to be within 12" of the reclemation HQ to receive that, which was Zahndrek in your list correct?
No codex nearby ATM, but i think the Reclamation Legion formation are the only models that get re-roll 1's when within 12" of the overlord anyway.
tetrisphreak wrote: Possibly a YMDC question - If the Praetorians take Night Scythes, are they considered part of the formation? They are a separate unit from the Praetorians, and the only listed models in the formation are the praetorians and the stalker(s).
I would say yes. DT's counts as having the same role as the unit they were bought for all rules purposes.
I did manage to strip off 2HP's with 2 turns of shooting before charging in with my wraithstar. The wraithstar itself did 5HP of damage, 2 for the wraiths and 3 for the D-lord. I swear, with T6, 2+/4++ and 4+++ RP re-rolling 1's, that guy is a major bada$$!
Great battle report as always. I had one question though, you claim your D-lord was getting rerolls of 1's on his RP, how? I thought in the decurion you had to be within 12" of the reclemation HQ to receive that, which was Zahndrek in your list correct?
Yes, my mistake. I thought the +1 RP was a part of the Reclamation Legion as well as the re-roll 1's. Hence, if the +1 RP applied to all the other formations, I assumed the re-roll 1's would also. However, after reviewing the rules, the +1 RP is part of the Decurion and the re-roll 1's part of the Reclamation.
As far as gameplay was concerned, it probably affected 2-3 of my RP tests with regards to my wraithstar and maybe 1-2 were reversed from failure to successes.
Ok, so here are my thoughts on the new Necrons with the Decurion detachment. It is super-resilient. However, it's offense is also somewhat stagnant. I've got basically 1 hard-hitting hammer unit, my wraithstar, but as soon as it went down, the offense of the rest of the army was just mediocre. To be fair, however, I think the Destroyer Cult would have done better against another army. But against White Scars, where their jink saves are the same as their armor saves, the effectiveness of the destroyer offense just wasn't that great.
Also, mobility is an issue with this army. Sure the wraithstar is fast. Sure, my tomb blades are fast. And it's great that destroyers can deepstrike all over the table. However, the core of my army is somewhat slow (without the night scythes) and can be trapped by the more aggressive armies. The new Decurion just does not have the speed that made the previous Necrons sooooo good. Currently, you just can't do the last turn objective-grab/contest that has won so many games for me before (and if you do, it will be at a premium in terms of cost).
I don't think it's fair to blame the decurion that your list lacked punch. Your entire heavy support consisted of 2 lascannons. The destroyer cult was 650 points that was never going to kill it's points in enemy models. The d-lord seems the only one that made up its points by killing half an IK. And yeah, against a WS biker list the destroyers are at their absolute worst. Plus, surely with 3 units in reserve you could have taken Hyperlogical Strategist on Zahndrekh turn 2? Unless you already did and just rolled a lot of ones.
As for mobility, again you need to bring it to really know if it's going to work. There's nothing stopping you bringing NS and more tomb blades.
To be fair, my list does have a decent amount of firepower. However, most of it is rapid-fire and not very effective against units 12"+ away. And because my units were somewhat spread out, that makes it even harder to focus down on any 1 unit. Most of it is also low-strength and so not as effective against high-Toughness units or vehicles.
Now compare that to other top-tier armies like mechdar, flyrant-spam Tyranids, Tau, White Scars or the Oldcrons who can spam lots of high-strength or AP2 VoF and you will see where I am coming from with my comparisons.
I don't really blame the Destroyer Cult in this game. Normally, I think that their offense can be incredibly effective, but White Scars is just a natural counter to the Destroyer Cult.
I didn't take Hyperlogical Strategist because I took Conqueror of Cities instead. Between the Castigator's 8 S7 AP3 shots and all the meltas and grav weaponry, I preferred to have the +1 cover to try to keep my spider alive instead. By the time I killed his Knight, it was already Turn 3 and so I decided to keep Conqueror for its defensive applications instead (destroyers in bolstered ruins with Conqueror for the 2+ ). Besides, the destroyers weren't so effective in this game that I was ok with them staying in reserves for a little longer.
The list has got some mobility. HOWEVER, the core of the army just isn't really mobile. It can be trapped by other armies (especially other MTO armies). Maybe not in this battle, but the mobility of the list is a concern of mine, especially in comparison to some of the other top-tier lists. Yes, you can definitely bring in some night scythes, but doing so for the troops will cost almost 500-pts! You definitely do so at the expense of your other formations (meaning I'd probably have to drop the heavy destroyers and maybe some wraiths). Overall, it is a balancing act juggling all the resources in the army to come up with a TAC that I am happy with. It is going to be a challenge that I will relish, but also one that may also take me beyond the LVO in order to do so.
SwistakCZC wrote: Ive changed my mind, take the fluffkillah, not newcrons, wraiths with triple rant are even too fab man.
Had another test game with it against mechdar. It's turning out to be a very strong build.
In this case I'm looking forward to reading the report boss. I've had simillar idea long time ago to ally with nids, but triple flyrants rock. Moreover I gonna test version with CCB in order to have good maelstorm grabber, rather then d.lord.
The list has got some mobility. HOWEVER, the core of the army just isn't really mobile. It can be trapped by other armies (especially other MTO armies). Maybe not in this battle, but the mobility of the list is a concern of mine, especially in comparison to some of the other top-tier lists. Yes, you can definitely bring in some night scythes, but doing so for the troops will cost almost 500-pts! You definitely do so at the expense of your other formations (meaning I'd probably have to drop the heavy destroyers and maybe some wraiths). Overall, it is a balancing act juggling all the resources in the army to come up with a TAC that I am happy with. It is going to be a challenge that I will relish, but also one that may also take me beyond the LVO in order to do so.
Yeah the new Necrons are very complicated it will likely take many months to find and playtest the optimized lists. I think you are going to struggle to find one in the next week
I'm doubting the destroyer cult will make the cut for TAC though, it's just so situational and expensive. Paying for so much AP3 without the Str to hurt vehicles gives it a lot of bad matchups. I'm trying to figure out how to make Decurion + CAD workable. It's not like Necron troops are a tax, especially with either 4+RP or ObSec.
You don't lose adaptive subroutine if you move out of 12" of the Spyder, the only clause to get the ability is to stay with in 12" at the beginning of the phase.
SwistakCZC wrote: Ive changed my mind, take the fluffkillah, not newcrons, wraiths with triple rant are even too fab man.
Had another test game with it against mechdar. It's turning out to be a very strong build.
In this case I'm looking forward to reading the report boss. I've had simillar idea long time ago to ally with nids, but triple flyrants rock. Moreover I gonna test version with CCB in order to have good maelstorm grabber, rather then d.lord.
Yeah, it's tough choosing between the D-lord and the CCB. The D-lord really helps out the wraiths and is both a force-mulitplier as well as a hammer unit. The CCB, on the other hand, offsets some of the limitations of the list with regards to the Maelstrom objectives. It is not an easy choice at all. Both can be so good.
The list has got some mobility. HOWEVER, the core of the army just isn't really mobile. It can be trapped by other armies (especially other MTO armies). Maybe not in this battle, but the mobility of the list is a concern of mine, especially in comparison to some of the other top-tier lists. Yes, you can definitely bring in some night scythes, but doing so for the troops will cost almost 500-pts! You definitely do so at the expense of your other formations (meaning I'd probably have to drop the heavy destroyers and maybe some wraiths). Overall, it is a balancing act juggling all the resources in the army to come up with a TAC that I am happy with. It is going to be a challenge that I will relish, but also one that may also take me beyond the LVO in order to do so.
Yeah the new Necrons are very complicated it will likely take many months to find and playtest the optimized lists. I think you are going to struggle to find one in the next week
I'm doubting the destroyer cult will make the cut for TAC though, it's just so situational and expensive. Paying for so much AP3 without the Str to hurt vehicles gives it a lot of bad matchups. I'm trying to figure out how to make Decurion + CAD workable. It's not like Necron troops are a tax, especially with either 4+RP or ObSec.
One thing I really like about the Destroyer Cult is the mobility they possess and the MSU element they add to the army. Even when their shooting isn't really going for them (like in this game), they are still a harassment unit that I can deepstrike into my opponent's deployment zone to harass his MSU troops on his home objectives. And because of the nature of their shooting, they really can't be ignored by most armies.
Here's a list another poster here has submitted to me (I won't name him in case if he wants anonymity). It consists of CAD + Destroyer Cult and I think it has the potential to be really good:
CAD:
Destroyer Lord - Wargear
2x5 Immortals
16-17x wraiths w/whip coils
Heavy Destroyer
Heavy Destroyer
Destroyer Cult:
Destroyer Lord - Wargear
2x Destroyers, 1x Heavy Destroyer
2x Destroyers, 1x Heavy Destroyer
2x Destroyers, 1x Heavy Destroyer
3x Heavy Destroyers
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Hollismason wrote: You don't lose adaptive subroutine if you move out of 12" of the Spyder, the only clause to get the ability is to stay with in 12" at the beginning of the phase.
I think you'll see a lot of Conclave of the Burning one armies with Night bring and Veil / Solar staff combo. That's a incredibly strong unit. Pair it with a realistic Wraith Wing and Destroyer Cult you've got a deadly army.
Hollismason wrote: I think you'll see a lot of Conclave of the Burning one armies with Night bring and Veil / Solar staff combo. That's a incredibly strong unit. Pair it with a realistic Wraith Wing and Destroyer Cult you've got a deadly army.
I'm not so sure. It's a good board control unit for sure. However, it is just too slow for my taste and the formation, when geared up, is pretty expensive (maybe 400+ pts?). Go up against MSU and that unit will never make its points back.
More importantly, most tournaments only allow for 2 sources. CAD + Conclave + Destroyer Cult would be illegal in many tournaments. Decurion w/Destroyer Cult + Conclave won't leave you with many points to run anything else unless you make major sacrifices to your Reclamantion Legion (by not taking transports, etc.).
Sorry, but I just don't see the Conclave fitting in well in a competitive Necron list.
It's pretty quick with Veil and good board control, plus it nukes a very competitive army ( Bikers who's gravcannons don't do to well, and who's Jink is ignore)
It's strong but your right it loses a lot on being taken in a Decurion because of the point sink.
I'm not a tournament player, so I don't really care that much what the tournaments say I pay attention to them mainly to see what the strong builds come out and just passing interest.
I am aware of the Veil tactic. However, many of the strong tournament armies - mechdar, White Scars, flyrant-spam Tyranids, MSU mech, etc. - can just get away from it. Other strong tournament armies - Adlance knights, green tide orks, wraithwing Necrons, assault deathstars - will just kill it in combat. And then some armies - Daemon summoning, MSU builds - can just tartpit it or feed it sacrificial units to tie it up for most of the game.
Just wanted to point out from a tournament perspective of how I think it would fare against the better tournament armies.
Gaze of Death is a seriously broken ability and can straight up murderize a lot of Death Stars and can target Flying Monstrous Creatures, AP2 , Ignore Cover wounds is pretty boss Even if it has a 18" range basically.
Hollismason wrote: Gaze of Death is a seriously broken ability and can straight up murderize a lot of Death Stars and can target Flying Monstrous Creatures, AP2 , Ignore Cover wounds is pretty boss Even if it has a 18" range basically.
I wouldn't call it good at countering death stars or broken. It's more expensive and worse then the old doom of mal antai which wasn't that devastating to be honest. Most deathstars have tanking invulns like storm shields, so you'd be lucky to put a couple wounds on the tank then probably get nuked
Against FMC's you will get one good go using the veil then they will stay out of your range. A 16% chance to do 4 wounds and they will might have an invuln (demons) or FNP (nids) or both.
In a vacuum I think it's best used as a massive disruption unit in their backfield. In a Necron list it just doesn't gel IMO. For example it is similar to Dark Artisan which I think is good, but a big part of why dark artisan is good is because of what it adds to DE. I don't see the conclave as adding anything new or useful to necrons for it's cost.
Imma try it out regardless even if it doesn't kill Flyers having basically a 36inch wide line of Do not come here is pretty good and makes the FMC player at least think about what their gonna do other than. Fly forward shoot the crap out of everyone.
Ok, so here are my thoughts on the new Necrons with the Decurion detachment. It is super-resilient. However, it's offense is also somewhat stagnant. I've got basically 1 hard-hitting hammer unit, my wraithstar, but as soon as it went down, the offense of the rest of the army was just mediocre. To be fair, however, I think the Destroyer Cult would have done better against another army. But against White Scars, where their jink saves are the same as their armor saves, the effectiveness of the destroyer offense just wasn't that great.
Also, mobility is an issue with this army. Sure the wraithstar is fast. Sure, my tomb blades are fast. And it's great that destroyers can deepstrike all over the table. However, the core of my army is somewhat slow (without the night scythes) and can be trapped by the more aggressive armies. The new Decurion just does not have the speed that made the previous Necrons sooooo good. Currently, you just can't do the last turn objective-grab/contest that has won so many games for me before (and if you do, it will be at a premium in terms of cost).
I don't think it's fair to blame the decurion that your list lacked punch. Your entire heavy support consisted of 2 lascannons. The destroyer cult was 650 points that was never going to kill it's points in enemy models. The d-lord seems the only one that made up its points by killing half an IK. And yeah, against a WS biker list the destroyers are at their absolute worst. Plus, surely with 3 units in reserve you could have taken Hyperlogical Strategist on Zahndrekh turn 2? Unless you already did and just rolled a lot of ones.
As for mobility, again you need to bring it to really know if it's going to work. There's nothing stopping you bringing NS and more tomb blades.
I disagree, destroyers are great against bikes because it forces the bikes to jink and that just punishes them in their shooting phase. With the re-rolls and AP3, if they don't jink, you are looking at better than 75% wound rate. If you can keep the enemy jinked across the board, you will have even more durability. Unless White Scars have a rule that lets them get full BS after they jink that I am not aware of.
I disagree, destroyers are great against bikes because it forces the bikes to jink and that just punishes them in their shooting phase. With the re-rolls and AP3, if they don't jink, you are looking at better than 75% wound rate. If you can keep the enemy jinked across the board, you will have even more durability. Unless White Scars have a rule that lets them get full BS after they jink that I am not aware of.
True, but bikes are still useful after jinking with their mobility and often TL guns. Plus there are cheaper ways to encourage a jink.
Here's a list another poster here has submitted to me (I won't name him in case if he wants anonymity). It consists of CAD + Destroyer Cult and I think it has the potential to be really good:
CAD:
Destroyer Lord - Wargear
2x5 Immortals
16-17x wraiths w/whip coils
Heavy Destroyer
Heavy Destroyer
Destroyer Cult:
Destroyer Lord - Wargear
2x Destroyers, 1x Heavy Destroyer
2x Destroyers, 1x Heavy Destroyer
2x Destroyers, 1x Heavy Destroyer
3x Heavy Destroyers
I think that looks very strong. What wargear would you give the Destoyer Lords? This list would come to exactly 1850.
CAD Destroyer Lord w/ Warscythe, Phase Shifter, Phylactery
JY2 you are welcome to try out my build with the maxed tomb blades. I have come to love my tomb blades. I run them in maxed out units as the volume of fire is needed to counter balance the lack of ap. Let me know what you think of the build if you do run it. It is hard to play test it here...
It was my list I sent JY2, he gave me some great advice and the new list is (comes to 1850 on the dot)
Destroyer Cult
Destroyer Lord
The Nightmare Shroud, Warscythe
2x Destroyer, Heavy Destroyer
2x Destroyer, Heavy Destroyer
2x Destroyer, Heavy Destroyer
3x Heavy Destroyer
Combined Arms Detachment
HQ Destroyer Lord
Phase Shifter, Voidreaper
Troops
5x Immortal
5x Gauss Blaster
5x Immortal
5x Gauss Blaster
Fast Attack
Wraiths 17 of them with a total of 10 whip coils
Heavy Support
Heavy Destroyer
Heavy Destroyer
I might be a little bit short on whip coils, but I like the balance it has atm, the 2+ armour save lord doesnt have an invun but I expect him to tank as much as possible with his 2+ so a 4++ might not be a value play on him.
I disagree, destroyers are great against bikes because it forces the bikes to jink and that just punishes them in their shooting phase. With the re-rolls and AP3, if they don't jink, you are looking at better than 75% wound rate. If you can keep the enemy jinked across the board, you will have even more durability. Unless White Scars have a rule that lets them get full BS after they jink that I am not aware of.
True, but bikes are still useful after jinking with their mobility and often TL guns. Plus there are cheaper ways to encourage a jink.
What did you have in mind? I am only tracking destroyers, barges, monolith, Staff of Light, and the few AP2 weapons we have. If you have an idea of how to get bikes to jink that costs less than 120 points, let me know. I might have missed something good.
I disagree, destroyers are great against bikes because it forces the bikes to jink and that just punishes them in their shooting phase. With the re-rolls and AP3, if they don't jink, you are looking at better than 75% wound rate. If you can keep the enemy jinked across the board, you will have even more durability. Unless White Scars have a rule that lets them get full BS after they jink that I am not aware of.
True, but bikes are still useful after jinking with their mobility and often TL guns. Plus there are cheaper ways to encourage a jink.
What did you have in mind? I am only tracking destroyers, barges, monolith, Staff of Light, and the few AP2 weapons we have. If you have an idea of how to get bikes to jink that costs less than 120 points, let me know. I might have missed something good.
For Necrons destroyers and heavy destroyers are best at it, the problem here is the destroyer cult increases the min unit size so you are using a lot of shots to do it. 3 single heavies could probably make them jink as much as 3 units of 3 destroyers.
The Destroyer Cult also allows 3 HQs in a CAD which is really useful. You can in fact fit 3 units of wraiths 3 Destroyer lords along with a Destroyer Cult into a 1850 which is pretty boss. That's all you'll have but you can do it.
Personally I'm just not sold on Destroyer Lords in the new book--definitely not if you're trying to play a Decurion and have to pay a huge tax in Destroyers just to get him. He obviously got more survivable, but got worse in every other way (speed/offense/MSS) but most importantly, in my opinion, he just isn't as necessary anymore with Wraiths being bumped to T5. This is even more true if you're planning on trying the Harvest to pull RP shenanigans (and you're convinced you can keep that Spyder alive somehow); volume of fire is their downfall, but it's not exactly a glaring weakness anymore once you take those two things into account. And all the Destroyer Lord can do about it is sit in front of them (assuming consistently average/above average Jet Pack rolls) and hope all the firepower is coming from one direction; if it's not, his ability to protect them is rendered pointless.
He's also more or less completely lost the ability to split off and act as a secondary threat; you can talk all you want about the Jet Pack move theoretically allowing him to keep up with the Wraiths as they move, but he's completely reliant on them to get him into the fight. On turns he intends to assault, he's just a standard Infantry model, and we all know that's too slow. In a test game, a friend broke him off from the Wraiths (so they'd have their Fleet in case they failed a long charge, as he's an active detriment to that now) and he ended up just meaninglessly floating around an empty table quarter trying (and failing) to react to Maelstrom objectives until Fateweaver dropped a unit of Daemonettes on his head to put him out of his misery. It was honestly a little sad.
Warmonger2757 wrote: I disagree, destroyers are great against bikes because it forces the bikes to jink and that just punishes them in their shooting phase. With the re-rolls and AP3, if they don't jink, you are looking at better than 75% wound rate. If you can keep the enemy jinked across the board, you will have even more durability. Unless White Scars have a rule that lets them get full BS after they jink that I am not aware of.
Forcing Bikes to Jink is only a worthwhile measure if you're playing an army those bikes needed to defeat via shooting in the first place; in many ways it's a self-defeating concept, and part of why Bikes are so good right now. Look at it this way:
If you've got enough low-AP shooting to force a meaningful amount of the Bike units to Jink, you're probably playing a shooty army, and they'll just come beat you in the face with their Marine statlines plus T5 and S5 Hammer of Wrath and Hit and Run.
If you're playing an assault army, you probably don't have enough low-AP shooting to force a meaningful amount of Bike units to Jink, and they'll just float around midfield besieging you with Grav and TL Bolter shots.
Against jy2's list, they're more than happy to Jink and come punch you in the face--with the obvious exception of the Wraith unit. The Decurion rules did a great job of keeping him alive in the face of standard-Marine assaults though, but that was solely because it was a rather straight Bike list--a hybrid Champions of Fenris/Thunderwolf list (which is becoming more common than straight Bikes lately) would have made a mess of any non-Wraith units it touched.
Hollismason wrote: Gaze of Death is a seriously broken ability and can straight up murderize a lot of Death Stars and can target Flying Monstrous Creatures, AP2 , Ignore Cover wounds is pretty boss Even if it has a 18" range basically.
It's good but I wouldn't go so far as to say it is broken. It can only affect 1 unit, unlike the Doom of Ma'lantai, which back then affected ALL units within range.
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Hollismason wrote: Imma try it out regardless even if it doesn't kill Flyers having basically a 36inch wide line of Do not come here is pretty good and makes the FMC player at least think about what their gonna do other than. Fly forward shoot the crap out of everyone.
Ok, so here are my thoughts on the new Necrons with the Decurion detachment. It is super-resilient. However, it's offense is also somewhat stagnant. I've got basically 1 hard-hitting hammer unit, my wraithstar, but as soon as it went down, the offense of the rest of the army was just mediocre. To be fair, however, I think the Destroyer Cult would have done better against another army. But against White Scars, where their jink saves are the same as their armor saves, the effectiveness of the destroyer offense just wasn't that great.
Also, mobility is an issue with this army. Sure the wraithstar is fast. Sure, my tomb blades are fast. And it's great that destroyers can deepstrike all over the table. However, the core of my army is somewhat slow (without the night scythes) and can be trapped by the more aggressive armies. The new Decurion just does not have the speed that made the previous Necrons sooooo good. Currently, you just can't do the last turn objective-grab/contest that has won so many games for me before (and if you do, it will be at a premium in terms of cost).
I don't think it's fair to blame the decurion that your list lacked punch. Your entire heavy support consisted of 2 lascannons. The destroyer cult was 650 points that was never going to kill it's points in enemy models. The d-lord seems the only one that made up its points by killing half an IK. And yeah, against a WS biker list the destroyers are at their absolute worst. Plus, surely with 3 units in reserve you could have taken Hyperlogical Strategist on Zahndrekh turn 2? Unless you already did and just rolled a lot of ones.
As for mobility, again you need to bring it to really know if it's going to work. There's nothing stopping you bringing NS and more tomb blades.
I disagree, destroyers are great against bikes because it forces the bikes to jink and that just punishes them in their shooting phase. With the re-rolls and AP3, if they don't jink, you are looking at better than 75% wound rate. If you can keep the enemy jinked across the board, you will have even more durability. Unless White Scars have a rule that lets them get full BS after they jink that I am not aware of.
There is that aspect, yes. I used my destroyers to keep his melta bikes jinking to make it harder for them to taken down my ghost ark. That does help to make it an even better defensive army, but defense is something the Newcrons are already very good at.
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wuestenfux wrote: Good report as always. Thanks for inside and sharing.
Question: Why deep striking the Destroyers?
For several reasons:
1) As a disruption unit, especially in the opponent's backfield (I.e. Places where my main forces have trouble reaching).
2) So I can reach the further objectives (I.e. Places where my main forces have trouble reaching).
3) To draw enemy firepower.
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Tomb King wrote: JY2 you are welcome to try out my build with the maxed tomb blades. I have come to love my tomb blades. I run them in maxed out units as the volume of fire is needed to counter balance the lack of ap. Let me know what you think of the build if you do run it. It is hard to play test it here...
I'd have to proxy many of those tomb blades but it definitely is an interesting/good build. I probably won't have enough time to play test it until after the LVO though.
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swanson4969 wrote: Wouldn't it be good to try and get the immortals into Night Scythes for objective taking shenanigans and a little AA?
With my list? I'd have to drop something in order to do so. Probably either the heavy destroyers + tomb blades/wraiths or a ghost ark+ tomb blade/wraiths. I don't know, man. Decisions, decisions....
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Zeztuku wrote: Great Battle report Jim. It was super fun to play against you as always. ;-)
Thanks for the game John. Turned out to be real close. I didn't actually win the Secondary because we miscounted one of your Maelstrom objectives.
It was my list I sent JY2, he gave me some great advice and the new list is (comes to 1850 on the dot)
Spoiler:
Destroyer Cult
Destroyer Lord
The Nightmare Shroud, Warscythe
2x Destroyer, Heavy Destroyer
2x Destroyer, Heavy Destroyer
2x Destroyer, Heavy Destroyer
3x Heavy Destroyer
Combined Arms Detachment
HQ Destroyer Lord
Phase Shifter, Voidreaper
Troops
5x Immortal
5x Gauss Blaster
5x Immortal
5x Gauss Blaster
Fast Attack
Wraiths 17 of them with a total of 10 whip coils
Heavy Support
Heavy Destroyer
Heavy Destroyer
I might be a little bit short on whip coils, but I like the balance it has atm, the 2+ armour save lord doesnt have an invun but I expect him to tank as much as possible with his 2+ so a 4++ might not be a value play on him.
I like your list and will probably give it a try after the LVO.
It'll have problems against massed flyers but then again, who cares? Probably only massed flyrants will give it trouble. Otherwise, ignoring the flyers is a viable tactic for this list.
Hollismason wrote: The Destroyer Cult also allows 3 HQs in a CAD which is really useful. You can in fact fit 3 units of wraiths 3 Destroyer lords along with a Destroyer Cult into a 1850 which is pretty boss. That's all you'll have but you can do it.
At 130-pts for a D-lord with warscythe is a pretty good deal. It is something that I would definitely consider running, though 2 is probably the most you want to run in order to have a more balanced list.
DJ3 wrote: Personally I'm just not sold on Destroyer Lords in the new book--definitely not if you're trying to play a Decurion and have to pay a huge tax in Destroyers just to get him. He obviously got more survivable, but got worse in every other way (speed/offense/MSS) but most importantly, in my opinion, he just isn't as necessary anymore with Wraiths being bumped to T5. This is even more true if you're planning on trying the Harvest to pull RP shenanigans (and you're convinced you can keep that Spyder alive somehow); volume of fire is their downfall, but it's not exactly a glaring weakness anymore once you take those two things into account. And all the Destroyer Lord can do about it is sit in front of them (assuming consistently average/above average Jet Pack rolls) and hope all the firepower is coming from one direction; if it's not, his ability to protect them is rendered pointless.
He's also more or less completely lost the ability to split off and act as a secondary threat; you can talk all you want about the Jet Pack move theoretically allowing him to keep up with the Wraiths as they move, but he's completely reliant on them to get him into the fight. On turns he intends to assault, he's just a standard Infantry model, and we all know that's too slow. In a test game, a friend broke him off from the Wraiths (so they'd have their Fleet in case they failed a long charge, as he's an active detriment to that now) and he ended up just meaninglessly floating around an empty table quarter trying (and failing) to react to Maelstrom objectives until Fateweaver dropped a unit of Daemonettes on his head to put him out of his misery. It was honestly a little sad.
Just like the D-lord + wraithstar combo of 6E, they are still effective, even without MSS (being able to have an Invuln helps out somewhat against the more killing enemies). Or you can add him to a unit of 20 flayed ones. Or a unit of 10 Lychguards, 10 Praetorians, 6 Destroyers, 10+ Charnel Scarabs, etc. Heck, he'd even help make a unit of 10 deathmarks or 20-warrior brick much more effective. I still see a lot of utility in him, both as a unit buffer, tanking character and beatstick monster.
Darkwynn wrote: Thank god you won't have time to play Tomb Blades... I saw that and that was the one thing I was hoping you didn't get to pick up or have...
Those things are beast >.<
I like those tomb blades, but I just don't have the time or resources to get that army done in time for the tournament. I guess we'd just have to see how Tomb King does with them at Adepticon.
The poll is more of a guide than a "command", subject to the fact that I have the army or can finish it in time. My selection will be one of top choices of the poll.
I don't have a pure Necron army that I am satisfied with or that I will finish on time, so it's looking like the 2nd and 3rd choice will be the army that I will be bringing.
By the ways, I got in another 3 practice games in with my Fluff-Killer NecroNid army. Sorry, no battle reports on these.
Practice Game #2 vs Mechdar
Eldar was running:
Mantle Summonseer
6x5 Dire Avengers in Wave Serpents (all with Holo-fields)
Wraithknight
Wraithknight
Summary - Scouring Primary. Mechdar just did not have the firepower to deal with the flyrants. Flyrants killed 4 of the wave serpents. Wraiths mulched the 2 WK's as well as 2 of the wave serpents. Summonseer got Sacrifice and summoned 2 Heralds before he couldn't summon anymore (down to 1W left). Heralds only managed to successfully summon 1 unit of seekers but they get killed by the wraiths as well. Game ended with 1 flyrant and a few wraiths dead but with Eldar conceding on Turn 4 after losing their last wave serpent and with NecroNids practically covering almost all of the Scouring objectives (and ahead in the Secondaries as well).
Summary - Purge the Alien Primary. This one ended up bad for Tau. I got Master of Ambush and I went first. After Turn 1, my wraiths were just inches from his main force. His Turn 1, even with Ignore Cover, his skyray only managed to deal 2W to my flyrant after firing all 6 of his seeker missiles (thanks to Catalyst). He then focused his entire army into my wraithstar, killing only 2 wraiths and putting a couple of wounds on my other wraiths and D-lord. After that, he conceded because I was about to hit his lines with all 3 units of wraiths and my 3 flyrants. He really didn't like me getting Master of Ambush and going 1st in the Purge the Alien scenario.
Practice Game #4 vs Farsight Tau
My opponent for this game brought the Farsight-bomb
Farsight
Buffmander - everything
6x Bodyguards - all fusions, target locks, 10x gun drones
Summary - Emperor's Will Primary. Again, I get Master of Ambush and went 1st. However, this time it would be much closer. He reserved his entire army with the exception of 2 riptides. By the time his Farsight-bomb had come in on Turn 2, I had already killed the 2 riptides that was on the table. However, he was up most of the game on the Secondary (Primary was tied for the most part). At the end of 5, he would have won as he had both Primary and Secondary. Fortunately for me, the game went on. I was finally able to kill off his bomb on T6 when the game ended. He only killed 1 unit of wraiths and both of my troops (immortals). I killed off 2 riptides and his 1000-pt Farsight-bomb. We tied on Primary after I killed off his contesting bomb while his ObSec fire warriors in their ObSec dedicated transport claimed his own Emperor's Will Objective. He thought he had me on the Secondary but after recounting, it turned out to be a tie. I then win on the Tertiary with First Blood (a riptide), Linebreaker (my flyrant) and Warlord to his Linebreaker (his last riptide in my deployment zone) 3-1. A damn close game where I would have lost on T5, barely won on T6 and probably had a dominating win on T7 (would have easily killed his riptide in my deployment zone).
Eyjio wrote: Wraiths - the unit Raveners wish they could be.
I'm pretty excited to see how the fluffkiller list does to be honest. It certainly seems very strong on paper.
Seriously. Sad Raveners are sad.
Glad to see NecroNids perform well Jim. The combo of one of the best ground control units and one of the best air control units certainly is strong. Have you given any thought to changing out a Flyrant for two Night Scythes? I'm not sure it's necessarily better, but the late game objective grabs would be nice I'm sure.
Eyjio wrote: Wraiths - the unit Raveners wish they could be.
I'm pretty excited to see how the fluffkiller list does to be honest. It certainly seems very strong on paper.
I still have fun with my raveners, even if they aren't the most competitive unit in the codex. Just don't go comparing them with wraiths and you will get a lot more satisfaction out of them.
Eyjio wrote: Wraiths - the unit Raveners wish they could be.
I'm pretty excited to see how the fluffkiller list does to be honest. It certainly seems very strong on paper.
Seriously. Sad Raveners are sad.
Glad to see NecroNids perform well Jim. The combo of one of the best ground control units and one of the best air control units certainly is strong. Have you given any thought to changing out a Flyrant for two Night Scythes? I'm not sure it's necessarily better, but the late game objective grabs would be nice I'm sure.
Yeah, I've thought about that (swapping out 1 flyrant for 2 night scythes), but I probably won't make such a change for the tournament. I just don't have enough practice time with such a build, and I also feel kinda naked with only 2 flyrants as opposed to 3.
But mainly, 6 threats on the table, of which 3 is a threat from Turn 1, is better than 5/2 threats in a MTO playstyle. It also increases my chances of getting First Blood, which is all-so-important in the BAO/LVO format, as well as makes it easier for me to face Adlance-type lists.
So is that settled then? Sounds like you're leaning towards taking your fluff killer army to the LVO. I would love to hear the tick in the voices of a few podcasters when they have to announce which army won the LVO (if you get that far)
luke1705 wrote: So is that settled then? Sounds like you're leaning towards taking your fluff killer army to the LVO. I would love to hear the tick in the voices of a few podcasters when they have to announce which army won the LVO (if you get that far)
No, it isn't actually settled yet. There's still a conflict raging with regards to which army I should bring. It'll probably come down to the wire. I'd really like to bring both armies but unfortunately, I'm going to have to choose.
BTW, my Round #1 matchup should be a great one and a great candidate for a Live Broadcast. I've been challenged and accepted a challenge from Nick Rose (aka Darkwynn), a multiple-GT winner, Ard Boyz winner (the original "Leafblower") and former member of ETC TeamUSA.
jy2 wrote: I doubt Reece will have the time to do so. It'll probably be a 3rd party doing so, with Reece deciding which matches to broadcast.
You know what? I can totally see Geoff "iNcontrol" Robinson doing the commentaries. He's already a professional commentator for Starcraft.
A hundred times this! x100!!!!!
I've been waiting for 40k to become an "eSport". I loosely use this term. xD The fact that 40k is becoming streamed more frequently is exciting for the community at large. Delawarr GT was streaming their top table live throughout the weekend last year. Although, I didn't get a chance to watch it because I was playing there, I watched some of Team Stomping Grounds youtube videos that were similar. With some editing and broadcasting experience, there is a market for streaming 40k. Can't wait until this is fine-tuned.
jy2 wrote: I doubt Reece will have the time to do so. It'll probably be a 3rd party doing so, with Reece deciding which matches to broadcast.
You know what? I can totally see Geoff "iNcontrol" Robinson doing the commentaries. He's already a professional commentator for Starcraft.
Not sure if it will be the same crew at LVO, but in the past it was the 11th Company podcast guys that streamed Adepticon and NOVA, I believe. They do a pretty good job.
That said, 40k doesn't really lend itself to "commentary." Instead they mic up the players so you can hear them talking, as that's the only way you'd have any clue what's going on. Otherwise you just see models moving and being picked up with no knowledge as to why--it's not like a video game where you see bullets fly out from Unit A and hit Unit B and instinctively know why they died. For anyone to know what's going on (including any potential commentators), you have to be able to hear the players declaring their actions, and that puts them too close to the action to comment on it (without getting slapped in the back of the head by a judge).
It creates a whole third degree of separation that eSports doesn't have to worry about--in eSports, you just separate the players from everybody else, and you're good to go. In 40k, you'd have to separate the players from the commentators (so their comments don't affect the game), but the commentators would still need to be able to hear the players (to know what's going on), and then the commentators would be relaying that information to the viewers. It's cumbersome and unnecessary.
Instead, it usually became more of a pregame/postgame conversation, as well as people discussing tactics in the chatbar on the side of ustream/twitch/whatever. They'd also interview players after the game sometime and ask them about decisionmaking and such. It's not exactly the most exciting thing in the world but it was definitely worth keeping up on a second monitor or something so you could keep an eye on what's going on if you're interested in competitive 40k but couldn't make the event.
That said, if you do watch it, get ready to have no idea what 60% of the units are (and the chat constantly being filled with people asking what the units are). Turns out it's really hard to identify 40k models when you're watching from a straight overhead view that's somewhat pixellated.
Man, NecronTyr roster is beast! I've played it two times lately (but with CCB instead of one wraith and d.lord) and easily managed to kill SM bikers backed up with SW and overwhelm pretty stanrard Daemons with 2x screamers,1x nurgle beast, Kairos... I definitely support playing Fluff-killah on up-comming tourney.
Only thing I'm afraid of in current metagame is Centurionstar- able to decimate Wraiths, knock out Tyrants, while both Tyrants and Wraiths are highly ineffective fighting with Centurions- they are not so easy to catch with charge due to levitatin/gate, they can h&r/gate out of cc and are protected with invisibility/endurance. Also double Dreadknight aint easy to deal with.
SwistakCZC wrote: Man, NecronTyr roster is beast! I've played it two times lately (but with CCB instead of one wraith and d.lord) and easily managed to kill SM bikers backed up with SW and overwhelm pretty stanrard Daemons with 2x screamers,1x nurgle beast, Kairos... I definitely support playing Fluff-killah on up-comming tourney.
Only thing I'm afraid of in current metagame is Centurionstar- able to decimate Wraiths, knock out Tyrants, while both Tyrants and Wraiths are highly ineffective fighting with Centurions- they are not so easy to catch with charge due to levitatin/gate, they can h&r/gate out of cc and are protected with invisibility/endurance. Also double Dreadknight aint easy to deal with.
The Centurionstar can be dealt with by the Void Shield Generator. The ITC have ruled it that grav-weaponry can do nothing to Void Shields just as small-arms fire can do nothing to it. I've since added a VSG to my Fluff-killer build to protect against enemy alpha-strikes. Then when I advance, just trail 1 wraith behind to be within VSG range and the whole unit will be protected.
jy2 wrote: I doubt Reece will have the time to do so. It'll probably be a 3rd party doing so, with Reece deciding which matches to broadcast.
You know what? I can totally see Geoff "iNcontrol" Robinson doing the commentaries. He's already a professional commentator for Starcraft.
A hundred times this! x100!!!!!
I've been waiting for 40k to become an "eSport". I loosely use this term. xD The fact that 40k is becoming streamed more frequently is exciting for the community at large. Delawarr GT was streaming their top table live throughout the weekend last year. Although, I didn't get a chance to watch it because I was playing there, I watched some of Team Stomping Grounds youtube videos that were similar. With some editing and broadcasting experience, there is a market for streaming 40k. Can't wait until this is fine-tuned.
I think that there is a market for streaming 40K. This is the beginning of a trend which I feel will be quite popular. We'll see how it goes.
jy2 wrote: I doubt Reece will have the time to do so. It'll probably be a 3rd party doing so, with Reece deciding which matches to broadcast.
You know what? I can totally see Geoff "iNcontrol" Robinson doing the commentaries. He's already a professional commentator for Starcraft.
Not sure if it will be the same crew at LVO, but in the past it was the 11th Company podcast guys that streamed Adepticon and NOVA, I believe. They do a pretty good job.
That said, 40k doesn't really lend itself to "commentary." Instead they mic up the players so you can hear them talking, as that's the only way you'd have any clue what's going on. Otherwise you just see models moving and being picked up with no knowledge as to why--it's not like a video game where you see bullets fly out from Unit A and hit Unit B and instinctively know why they died. For anyone to know what's going on (including any potential commentators), you have to be able to hear the players declaring their actions, and that puts them too close to the action to comment on it (without getting slapped in the back of the head by a judge).
It creates a whole third degree of separation that eSports doesn't have to worry about--in eSports, you just separate the players from everybody else, and you're good to go. In 40k, you'd have to separate the players from the commentators (so their comments don't affect the game), but the commentators would still need to be able to hear the players (to know what's going on), and then the commentators would be relaying that information to the viewers. It's cumbersome and unnecessary.
Instead, it usually became more of a pregame/postgame conversation, as well as people discussing tactics in the chatbar on the side of ustream/twitch/whatever. They'd also interview players after the game sometime and ask them about decisionmaking and such. It's not exactly the most exciting thing in the world but it was definitely worth keeping up on a second monitor or something so you could keep an eye on what's going on if you're interested in competitive 40k but couldn't make the event.
That said, if you do watch it, get ready to have no idea what 60% of the units are (and the chat constantly being filled with people asking what the units are). Turns out it's really hard to identify 40k models when you're watching from a straight overhead view that's somewhat pixellated.
There are "technicalities" to consider, but I believe there is a market to watch these games, especially from "celebrity" players or on the top tables. But it is still a relatively young market and I do not know how long it will take to bear fruit (or if it ever will). But if the appropriate resources are allocated to address some of these technicalities, then I believe it can be successful.
So, the one model behind if shot at (from behind) would first should into the voidshield. Or are you saying that Voidshield bubble wraps the whole unit if you congo line?
The Centurionstar can be dealt with by the Void Shield Generator. The ITC have ruled it that grav-weaponry can do nothing to Void Shields just as small-arms fire can do nothing to it. I've since added a VSG to my Fluff-killer build to protect against enemy alpha-strikes. Then when I advance, just trail 1 wraith behind to be within VSG range and the whole unit will be protected.
This unfortunately/fortunately is how they have ruled it for VSGs. Pretty busted honestly.. I don't see why greentide wouldnt just throw one down and conga to anywhere on the board. Theory of course but they do make a crazy good counter to alpha strike armies.
Edit- NM after a little more thought souce limit and no void relay network prevents what I suggested. Still good though..
Whacked wrote: So, the one model behind if shot at (from behind) would first should into the voidshield. Or are you saying that Voidshield bubble wraps the whole unit if you congo line?
No. If you are shooting from within 12" of the VSG, then it offers no protection. The VSG only offers protection against shooting from beyond 12" of it. However, it you do manage to kill the 1 model within range of the VSG, then the unit would now be out of range of the VSG and its protection as well. As long as 1 model from the unit is in range of the VSG and shooting against the unit is from more than 12" of the VSG, then the unit will get its protection, thus making conga-lining a viable tactic (as with Shrouding).
The Centurionstar can be dealt with by the Void Shield Generator. The ITC have ruled it that grav-weaponry can do nothing to Void Shields just as small-arms fire can do nothing to it. I've since added a VSG to my Fluff-killer build to protect against enemy alpha-strikes. Then when I advance, just trail 1 wraith behind to be within VSG range and the whole unit will be protected.
This unfortunately/fortunately is how they have ruled it for VSGs. Pretty busted honestly.. I don't see why greentide wouldnt just throw one down and conga to anywhere on the board. Theory of course but they do make a crazy good counter to alpha strike armies.
Edit- NM after a little more thought souce limit and no void relay network prevents what I suggested. Still good though..
To be fair, the rulings for the VSG in the ITC format takes from the Adepticon FAQ's. It is the same, though the ruling with regards to Graviton-vs-Void-Shields is new (Adepticon FAQ's did not deal with that situation). As such, most tournaments following the Adepticon FAQ's have already been playing it this way.
Note that this is a double-edged sword, as your opponent can also take advantage of your VSG by conga-lining themselves within range of it. Units like the seer council, for example, or a deepstriking Farsight-bomb can use this to their advantage as well.
Note that this is a double-edged sword, as your opponent can also take advantage of your VSG by conga-lining themselves within range of it. Units like the seer council, for example, or a deepstriking Farsight-bomb can use this to their advantage as well.
Absolutely, long as they can fit a model inside. I guess I just have some residual anger vs the void relay network. It was one of the most problematic things I encountered in quite awhile. I'm in therapy now its getting better..
SwistakCZC wrote: Man, NecronTyr roster is beast! I've played it two times lately (but with CCB instead of one wraith and d.lord) and easily managed to kill SM bikers backed up with SW and overwhelm pretty stanrard Daemons with 2x screamers,1x nurgle beast, Kairos... I definitely support playing Fluff-killah on up-comming tourney.
Only thing I'm afraid of in current metagame is Centurionstar- able to decimate Wraiths, knock out Tyrants, while both Tyrants and Wraiths are highly ineffective fighting with Centurions- they are not so easy to catch with charge due to levitatin/gate, they can h&r/gate out of cc and are protected with invisibility/endurance. Also double Dreadknight aint easy to deal with.
The Centurionstar can be dealt with by the Void Shield Generator. The ITC have ruled it that grav-weaponry can do nothing to Void Shields just as small-arms fire can do nothing to it. I've since added a VSG to my Fluff-killer build to protect against enemy alpha-strikes. Then when I advance, just trail 1 wraith behind to be within VSG range and the whole unit will be protected.
I see your point, it's reasonable, but still in Europe or ETC there aren't any void shields allowed, so centstar gonna hurt One bad pairing and a lot of good pairings, it's situation I accept though.
WrentheFaceless wrote: Hmm i'm guessing its too much of a risk to just Gate into 12 inch shield bubble then?
Well its not that easy since he will probably have planned for that and deployed within 3/4" all around the dome. Only 3 shields isnt that much of a headache but its enough for armies like centstar that if they do 'go for it' turn 1 theres a decently probability of failure = a loss. I like the innovation of the VSG in this list still. They're notorious at flipping alpha strikes. Almost begs for some cheap dedicated ranged units to further benefit from them.
Dozer Blades wrote: I wouldnt waste any points on VSG. Often you can just ignore it due to mission and deployment.
It is good protection against alpha-strike armies. The protection against grav is just a bonus. I'm more concerned about the likes of mechdar, White Scars and Tau going 1st.
Note that this is a double-edged sword, as your opponent can also take advantage of your VSG by conga-lining themselves within range of it. Units like the seer council, for example, or a deepstriking Farsight-bomb can use this to their advantage as well.
Absolutely, long as they can fit a model inside. I guess I just have some residual anger vs the void relay network. It was one of the most problematic things I encountered in quite awhile. I'm in therapy now its getting better..
Fortunately for all, the Void Shield Network is banned.
WrentheFaceless wrote: Hmm i'm guessing its too much of a risk to just Gate into 12 inch shield bubble then?
Against Gate, all one needs to do is deploy his VSG by his board edge and then bubble-wrap it to make it extremely risky if not impossible to deepstrike within 12" of the VSG.
SwistakCZC wrote: I see your point, it's reasonable, but still in Europe or ETC there aren't any void shields allowed, so centstar gonna hurt One bad pairing and a lot of good pairings, it's situation I accept though.
Yeah, it is meta-dependent. Nova and Adepticon Championships as well as the ETC did not allow for the VSG. The BAO/LVO is currently the only large US tourney to allow it. However, that will probably change very soon, at least with the US tourneys. There's a good chance that Nova will start allowing Forgeworld as well as the other supplements into their tourneys. It's just a matter of time before all the other US tourneys "evolve" as well.
WrentheFaceless wrote: Well the official GWFAQ's updated the relationship between blasts, VSG, and the units under it
Not sure why LVO would deviate from the offical GWFAQ
LVOFAQ with regards to blasts-vs-VSG is the same as the GWFAQ, which is also consistent with the Adepticon FAQ's. No deviation there.
Dozer Blades wrote: DevCents with missiles can quickly wreck VSG. I think with good deployment VSG is pointless .
Disagree. Even with 4 missile centurions, you have less than 50% chance to take off 2 VS. But even still, you'd be wasting 1 turn of shooting against units under the protection of the VSG, and every turn spent not killing a unit by your centstar is a turn your opponent is winning.
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BTW, this will probably come back to bite me in the arse, but I am planning to run the centstar for the Highlander event.
WrentheFaceless wrote: Well the official GWFAQ's updated the relationship between blasts, VSG, and the units under it
Not sure why LVO would deviate from the offical GWFAQ
LVOFAQ with regards to blasts-vs-VSG is the same as the GWFAQ, which is also consistent with the Adepticon FAQ's. No deviation there.
Dozer Blades wrote: DevCents with missiles can quickly wreck VSG. I think with good deployment VSG is pointless .
Disagree. Even with 4 missile centurions, you have less than 50% chance to take off 2 VS. But even still, you'd be wasting 1 turn of shooting against units under the protection of the VSG, and every turn spent not killing a unit by your centstar is a turn your opponent is winning.
What's been your experience in playtesting with the VSG? It seems like most common stuff ( Wave Serpents, broadsides, etc) would take out the VSG pretty quick.
BTW, this will probably come back to bite me in the arse, but I am planning to run the centstar for the Highlander event.
Cent star is pretty strong in Highlander formats, did a 1500 point one here recently and performed pretty well. Highlander provides less options to deal with it having only 1 of each type of unit
I've played quite a bit against void shields in the past, anywhere from 1 to 9 of the things. The main issue is they give you that illusion of what it takes to drop them so you expose your pieces to do so and then it doesn't happen how you plan and all your anti infantry firepower does jack all. Then he retaliates at full force wrecking your anti tank and the shields go back up. Then it snowballs. I know this can be said for other things but its just worse with VS for some reason. I feel you'd need 2 hvy psycans + the missiles to risk taking a shot at it.
jy2- are you taking a variation of the centstar from page 1? I like the next level approach. Not one I'd have thought of but it would definitely be scary to face in the mirror.
I run five cents typically all with missiles and the sergeant has a lascannon. All you need is to strip a couple hull points the first turn then when reserves arrive the next turn it's gone. I do agree it can work against some alphastrikes but like pointed out not that great versus armies like serpent spam.
I don't see it as a good investment for the Green Tide in general since depending on the type of deployment it could work against you.
Hey on the voidshield topic, if I have a flyrant with electroshock and hit 3 models in a unit in the voidshield, does that equal 3 hits on the voidshields?
Jim you figured out what you're running? I'm 12 hours and counting for my flight out. Seeya there!
thanatos67 wrote: Hey on the voidshield topic, if I have a flyrant with electroshock and hit 3 models in a unit in the voidshield, does that equal 3 hits on the voidshields?
Jim you figured out what you're running? I'm 12 hours and counting for my flight out. Seeya there!
It only count as 1 hit per blast/temp.
Yes, I've decided. All will be revealed at the tournament.
thanatos67 wrote: Hey on the voidshield topic, if I have a flyrant with electroshock and hit 3 models in a unit in the voidshield, does that equal 3 hits on the voidshields?
Jim you figured out what you're running? I'm 12 hours and counting for my flight out. Seeya there!
It only count as 1 hit per blast/temp.
Yes, I've decided. All will be revealed at the tournament.
Good luck and I'll see you there!
All that buildup and no resolution? I call "no balls."
What's been your experience in playtesting with the VSG? It seems like most common stuff ( Wave Serpents, broadsides, etc) would take out the VSG pretty quick.
It won't stop everything, but it if stops 2 wave serpents or 1 unit of broadsides from doing damage, then that's good enough. The VSG isn't a magic bullet to keep my army from harm. It's to help minimize the alpha-strike capabilities of the enemy, thus allowing me to still go 2nd in an objectives game. Combine that with 2+ cover for from a malanthrope and the army then becomes highly survivable.
It'll also f*ck up White Scars who rely on bolters and grav-weaponry as well as other flyrant-spam Leviathan armies/allied builds.
BTW, this will probably come back to bite me in the arse, but I am planning to run the centstar for the Highlander event.
Cent star is pretty strong in Highlander formats, did a 1500 point one here recently and performed pretty well. Highlander provides less options to deal with it having only 1 of each type of unit
Oh, I know.
The only army/unit that will give it problems IMO is Eldar with a Lynx (of which I know at least 1 person bringing). The LVO ruling to Invisibility (as well as VSG's) will hurt the centstar but that doesn't matter. I have to at least give my centurions a run in competitive play.
dominuschao wrote: I've played quite a bit against void shields in the past, anywhere from 1 to 9 of the things. The main issue is they give you that illusion of what it takes to drop them so you expose your pieces to do so and then it doesn't happen how you plan and all your anti infantry firepower does jack all. Then he retaliates at full force wrecking your anti tank and the shields go back up. Then it snowballs. I know this can be said for other things but its just worse with VS for some reason. I feel you'd need 2 hvy psycans + the missiles to risk taking a shot at it.
jy2- are you taking a variation of the centstar from page 1? I like the next level approach. Not one I'd have thought of but it would definitely be scary to face in the mirror.
Yes, it will be a scaled down version of my Centstar list on p.1.
I run five cents typically all with missiles and the sergeant has a lascannon. All you need is to strip a couple hull points the first turn then when reserves arrive the next turn it's gone. I do agree it can work against some alphastrikes but like pointed out not that great versus armies like serpent spam.
I don't see it as a good investment for the Green Tide in general since depending on the type of deployment it could work against you.
Too bad the Highlander is at 1500. I can't imagine running more than 4 centurions in order to maintain a somewhat balanced list.
I think the VSG (I'm assuming you were talking about that, right?) is a good investment for a Green Tide build. It'll protect the trakk guns, lootas and other backfield units as well as the Tide if you string them along. With 100 boyz, that shouldn't be a problem at all. BTW, it'll also protect them from Imperial Knight battle cannons.
thanatos67 wrote: Hey on the voidshield topic, if I have a flyrant with electroshock and hit 3 models in a unit in the voidshield, does that equal 3 hits on the voidshields?
Jim you figured out what you're running? I'm 12 hours and counting for my flight out. Seeya there!
It only count as 1 hit per blast/temp.
Yes, I've decided. All will be revealed at the tournament.
Good luck and I'll see you there!
All that buildup and no resolution? I call "no balls."
Oh, you'll see my resolution soon enough. It is definitely among the Top 3 vote-getters in my poll.
Fxeni wrote: What's been your experience in playtesting with the VSG? It seems like most common stuff ( Wave Serpents, broadsides, etc) would take out the VSG pretty quick.
The point is that all the shooting hitting the VSG isn't hitting your army--two or three Wave Serpents wasting their T1 shooting against armies that are vulnerable to alpha strikes (FMCs, Psychic Deathstars) is absolutely worth it. It then transitions to a solid backfield defence mechanism lategame as the shields regenerate, assuming they didn't take out the actual building. I've had it surprise people when they go to try to blow one of my Troop units off the board T5 and suddenly realize they've got to go through the shield again.
In my games with mine, I only tend to lose it to Drop Pod armies (obviously) and Wave Serpents. Broadsides are irrelevant for alpha strikes--they won't be in range unless you decide to conga-line out of it. It's more or less meaningless to the Drop Pod armies (you can easily bubblewrap them out, but it's no big deal for them to throw a little Melta into it) but does very well against the Serpents. An average Scatter/Shield combo only strips 1.5 shields off the thing, so you should be looking at two Serpents--but that's two Serpents who have to advance directly midfield (to get their Scatters in range) and then blow their Shields. That's not a trade most players are even willing to make; especially since that's just the requirement to get the VSG down, and the actual meaningful firepower has to come after.
It's obviously a little different against Daemons though, as blowing Shields with Fateweaver around is potentially dangerous anywhere on the board--against Tyranids, everything's glancing anyway, so sitting back and throwing blind Shields isn't so bad of an option. But with no Scatter Laser assist, you'd be looking at an average of 3 Serpents just to drop the shield.
Are you going to start a poll for who we think you're going to bring haha? FWIW I think you'll go Pentyrant, but you can't go wrong with Fluff Kiler either. No matter what, I'm sure Nids will be well-represented
No benefits from anything for the shields and they aren't targeted. But other than that each vsg is pretty much like a av12 transport that holds your entire army. With iwnd.
Fxeni wrote: So.... Can Void Shields take cover saves? What about invul saves, say from a KFF? o_O
What the other guys said.
It's a special case kind of like markerlights. You get no cover against markerlights because they don't cause any wounds. Only with void shields, it is the other way around. The VS has no wounds or hull points to lose and is not an actual unit so it doesn't get any cover saves (nor does it get Invuln saves).
Darkwynn wrote: He isn't kidding anyone... He is going to play the 5 hive tyrant list. Otherwise he wouldn't have painted the other two hive tyrants in time
Or maybe I finished it so that I have the option of running it? If my army wasn't done, then there wouldn't be a choice at all as to which army I could run.
BTW, good luck Nick. Hope you get past your 1st round opponent.
So my solution for the VSG is Gauss. My regular warriors can bring it down from range. I thought about including a VSG in my list for the 40k champs at adepticon but I found it had too many counters and that I would try to depend on it to much. It is good but for 100 points I am not sure I need it.
As for the cloak and dagger list.... we have always been forward about are list selections... what has changed now? haha
Tomb King wrote: So my solution for the VSG is Gauss. My regular warriors can bring it down from range. I thought about including a VSG in my list for the 40k champs at adepticon but I found it had too many counters and that I would try to depend on it to much. It is good but for 100 points I am not sure I need it.
As for the cloak and dagger list.... we have always been forward about are list selections... what has changed now? haha
So you want to open your Christmas present early, huh? Haha...I prefer opening my Christmas presents on Christmas day, even if I basically know what it is. A little anticipation and a little mystery to keep my potential opponents on their toes.
Orock wrote: I predict that necrons (some flavor of) will take it. I also predict orks will place in the top 4!
(predictions about great ork placement void in reality).
Not Tyranids? Hmmm....judging from what I've been hearing at the more recent tournaments (TSHFT and Caledonian), I expect to see some flavor of Leviathan in one way, shape, form or another.
Darkwynn wrote: Because it doesn't build excitement and anticipation tomb !, duh
I am playing blood Angels, If that helps.
Oooooh....then my good sir, you will have me at a slight disadvantage.
I have not played the new Blood Angels, nor have I even read their new codex yet! I have no idea how competitive the new BA can be. Lol. I suspect it will be quite a learning experience for me.
Fxeni wrote: 20 bucks says he takes the fluff killer list.
I'd take that bet, except that's what I voted for (and what I think he'll take). It is less susceptible to hard counters and presents difficult (unfamiliar) choices to the opponent.
Personally I dont think the fluff killer is his best build. It will have issues against a couple of builds that I can already think up. It is hard to make a complete TAC in the current meta.
jy2 wrote: Ok guys, the wait is over. The army that I will be running will be
Spoiler:
That is a good choice and best of luck. IMO that list would slaughter your fluff killer list. Also knights would of given you hell on the fluff killer list.
Kinda disappointed in the army you picked. Mostly because if you do well it means more people will play FMC, and FMC aren't really fun to play against especially in more casual games. But good luck, will still root for you to bring it home.
The competitiveness of the five Flyrant build has been a hot topic since it became possible...should be very interesting to see how it fares in the hands of a quality general among top competition over a multi-round tournament. Best of luck!
997Turbo wrote: The competitiveness of the five Flyrant build has been a hot topic since it became possible...should be very interesting to see how it fares in the hands of a quality general among top competition over a multi-round tournament. Best of luck!
For no other reason than that I agree. I'll be very interested to see how you fare. I've seen this list pop up at my local club and at my local tournie scene and just demolish everything it comes up against. So far the only thing that seems to do a number on it, that I've seen, was someone running 3 stormravens, 2 stormtalons and some contemptor dreads. One of my peeps took out all of his FMCs by like turn 3. Hadn't seen the Tyranids take a shellacking like that in awhile. Hopefully you won't see too much of that at LVO - good luck!
Shame, Did I miss the frontline gaming stream? I found their channel on twitch but haven't noticed it going live. Anyone know when/if this is happening?
jy2 wrote: Had some tough matches, especially against 2 fellow Tyranid players, including Mr. Lictorshame himself, Sean Nayden, and John Parsons aka krootman.
I really hate having to play against the same faction I'm playing. Feel for you.
tetrisphreak wrote: OrdoSean is in the top 8 currently - very tough opponent indeed. What list was he using?
its a less extreme version of lictor shame. 3 flyrants. No Genestealers. He will be playing on twitch Sunday, and he is a friendly guy that will probably batrep the tourney.
Interesting thing about LVO. There is a chance there are more flyrants than tactical marines.
jy2 wrote: Had some tough matches, especially against 2 fellow Tyranid players, including Mr. Lictorshame himself, Sean Nayden, and John Parsons aka krootman.
I really hate having to play against the same faction I'm playing. Feel for you.
Well when you play flyrants when they are the FotM you have to expect it to happen. Makes sense he'd play other flyrants if you think about it.
tetrisphreak wrote: OrdoSean is in the top 8 currently - very tough opponent indeed. What list was he using?
its a less extreme version of lictor shame. 3 flyrants. No Genestealers. He will be playing on twitch Sunday, and he is a friendly guy that will probably batrep the tourney.
Interesting thing about LVO. There is a chance there are more flyrants than tactical marines.
He hasn't been running Genestealers in his #Lictorshame list for a few months now AFAIK. I wasn't aware that he went for 3 Flyrants though. Interesting!
wuestenfux wrote: Seems that there are some top placements for Nids reserved these days.
very matchup dependent. Right now Sean is playing Tyler who beat me, but my mission was the relic, and Sean has kill points. I beat Tyler in kill points, but lost because it was relic. The luck of the matchup makes a big difference.
Man, what a tournament. I am exhausted. Played a total of 10 games over the weekend, including against many GT-winners, including multiple-GT winner and the winner of the 2015 LVO himself, Sean Nayden and his #Lictorshame Tyranids. Also went up against the winner of Brawl in the Fall GT, the best Tau player on the ITC and the Overall winner of the ITC, Paul McKelvey. Then I played against the winner of Templecon GT, Ken Johnson, aka GreyDragoon (hope I got his name correct). Finally I also had a game against Mike Kiser aka PanzerLeader, who has won several GT's in the Midwest including the Golden Throne Southwest and I believe The Alamo GT. Also had a game against John Parsons aka krootman as well as podcaster and the guy who runs the 11th Company GT (which ironically is where Sean Nayden won his first GT with his #Lictorshame Tyranids), Neil Gilstrap himself.
It's a shame I didn't get to face the 2 Nicks (Rose and Nanavati), but I will give them a chance to try to beat me at some future date.
Reports and pics to come when I get back from a business trip.
jy2 wrote: Man, what a tournament. I am exhausted. Played a total of 10 games over the weekend, including against many GT-winners, including multiple-GT winner and the winner of the 2015 LVO himself, Sean Nayden and his #Lictorshame Tyranids. Also went up against the winner of Brawl in the Fall GT, the best Tau player on the ITC and the Overall winner of the ITC, Paul McKelvey. Then I played against the winner of Templecon GT, Ken Johnson, aka GreyDragoon (hope I got his name correct). Finally I also had a game against Mike Kiser aka PanzerLeader, who has won several GT's in the Midwest including the Golden Throne Southwest and I believe The Alamo GT. Also had a game against John Parsons aka krootman as well as podcaster and the guy who runs the 11th Company GT (which ironically is where Sean Nayden won his first GT with his #Lictorshame Tyranids), Neil Gilstrap himself.
It's a shame I didn't get to face the 2 Nicks (Rose and Nanavati), but I will give them a chance to try to beat me at some future date.
Reports and pics to come when I get back from a business trip.
Overall, did the five Flyrants meet your expectations as a potential GT winning list? I'd like to hear your thoughts on it after getting in so many test games against top armies and if your opinion changed or if you would make any changes to the list.
jy2 wrote: Man, what a tournament. I am exhausted. Played a total of 10 games over the weekend, including against many GT-winners, including multiple-GT winner and the winner of the 2015 LVO himself, Sean Nayden and his #Lictorshame Tyranids. Also went up against the winner of Brawl in the Fall GT, the best Tau player on the ITC and the Overall winner of the ITC, Paul McKelvey. Then I played against the winner of Templecon GT, Ken Johnson, aka GreyDragoon (hope I got his name correct). Finally I also had a game against Mike Kiser aka PanzerLeader, who has won several GT's in the Midwest including the Golden Throne Southwest and I believe The Alamo GT. Also had a game against John Parsons aka krootman as well as podcaster and the guy who runs the 11th Company GT (which ironically is where Sean Nayden won his first GT with his #Lictorshame Tyranids), Neil Gilstrap himself.
It's a shame I didn't get to face the 2 Nicks (Rose and Nanavati), but I will give them a chance to try to beat me at some future date.
Reports and pics to come when I get back from a business trip.
Was a pleasure meeting you Jim, shame your Draigo-star for Highlander was rather short on Draigo's But you ran it like a champ and we had a nice tight game. Sounds like you had quite the run, all great opponents with solid play time behind them. Mike's list has become a really solid Sister's list that seems to be able to give just about any other list a run for its money.
Did you stick around for the ITC prizes at the end? I noticed there was no prize for best Assassin player.. seems there might be a future for someone with the guts to run a primary assassins list to the ITC GTs this coming season to seize the prize solo
Oh and just in case anyone gets a case of the internets - I took Best General of Templecon this year is what Jim meant! Best Overall at Templecon was won by another fine gentleman whose name I am currently forgetting.
jy2 wrote: Man, what a tournament. I am exhausted. Played a total of 10 games over the weekend, including against many GT-winners, including multiple-GT winner and the winner of the 2015 LVO himself, Sean Nayden and his #Lictorshame Tyranids. Also went up against the winner of Brawl in the Fall GT, the best Tau player on the ITC and the Overall winner of the ITC, Paul McKelvey. Then I played against the winner of Templecon GT, Ken Johnson, aka GreyDragoon (hope I got his name correct). Finally I also had a game against Mike Kiser aka PanzerLeader, who has won several GT's in the Midwest including the Golden Throne Southwest and I believe The Alamo GT. Also had a game against John Parsons aka krootman as well as podcaster and the guy who runs the 11th Company GT (which ironically is where Sean Nayden won his first GT with his #Lictorshame Tyranids), Neil Gilstrap himself.
It's a shame I didn't get to face the 2 Nicks (Rose and Nanavati), but I will give them a chance to try to beat me at some future date.
Reports and pics to come when I get back from a business trip.
Great to meet you and get a fantastic game in. Looking forward to my next trip out to the coast to get some more games in against the Team Zero Comp crew.
jy2 wrote: Man, what a tournament. I am exhausted. Played a total of 10 games over the weekend, including against many GT-winners, including multiple-GT winner and the winner of the 2015 LVO himself, Sean Nayden and his #Lictorshame Tyranids. Also went up against the winner of Brawl in the Fall GT, the best Tau player on the ITC and the Overall winner of the ITC, Paul McKelvey. Then I played against the winner of Templecon GT, Ken Johnson, aka GreyDragoon (hope I got his name correct). Finally I also had a game against Mike Kiser aka PanzerLeader, who has won several GT's in the Midwest including the Golden Throne Southwest and I believe The Alamo GT. Also had a game against John Parsons aka krootman as well as podcaster and the guy who runs the 11th Company GT (which ironically is where Sean Nayden won his first GT with his #Lictorshame Tyranids), Neil Gilstrap himself.
It's a shame I didn't get to face the 2 Nicks (Rose and Nanavati), but I will give them a chance to try to beat me at some future date.
Reports and pics to come when I get back from a business trip.
Overall, did the five Flyrants meet your expectations as a potential GT winning list? I'd like to hear your thoughts on it after getting in so many test games against top armies and if your opinion changed or if you would make any changes to the list.
It is a potential GT-winning build. However, do not expect Pentyrants to dominate in such a large field of competitive players. It is far from an autowin type of build. It's got its weaknesses, but despite that, a shrewd general can still make it work. And while it didn't go well for me this time, I still have confidence that I could have beaten any of the armies which I lost to in this tournament.
jy2 wrote: Man, what a tournament. I am exhausted. Played a total of 10 games over the weekend, including against many GT-winners, including multiple-GT winner and the winner of the 2015 LVO himself, Sean Nayden and his #Lictorshame Tyranids. Also went up against the winner of Brawl in the Fall GT, the best Tau player on the ITC and the Overall winner of the ITC, Paul McKelvey. Then I played against the winner of Templecon GT, Ken Johnson, aka GreyDragoon (hope I got his name correct). Finally I also had a game against Mike Kiser aka PanzerLeader, who has won several GT's in the Midwest including the Golden Throne Southwest and I believe The Alamo GT. Also had a game against John Parsons aka krootman as well as podcaster and the guy who runs the 11th Company GT (which ironically is where Sean Nayden won his first GT with his #Lictorshame Tyranids), Neil Gilstrap himself.
It's a shame I didn't get to face the 2 Nicks (Rose and Nanavati), but I will give them a chance to try to beat me at some future date.
Reports and pics to come when I get back from a business trip.
Was a pleasure meeting you Jim, shame your Draigo-star for Highlander was rather short on Draigo's But you ran it like a champ and we had a nice tight game. Sounds like you had quite the run, all great opponents with solid play time behind them. Mike's list has become a really solid Sister's list that seems to be able to give just about any other list a run for its money.
Did you stick around for the ITC prizes at the end? I noticed there was no prize for best Assassin player.. seems there might be a future for someone with the guts to run a primary assassins list to the ITC GTs this coming season to seize the prize solo
Oh and just in case anyone gets a case of the internets - I took Best General of Templecon this year is what Jim meant! Best Overall at Templecon was won by another fine gentleman whose name I am currently forgetting.
Great to meet you as well, Ken.
Yeah, my biggest brainfart happened way before the tournament. Building a Draigostar list (for the Highlander event) without Draigo qualifies for a brainfart if there ever was one. Lol. And ironically, I still hadn't noticed it until we were about to play.
In any case, thanks for the game. It turned out to be a close and exciting one.
Valek wrote: to bad no necrons matches will be there, really want to see the new dex performing...
I will take them to a future tournament, though you'll probably hear about them at Adepticon.
jy2 wrote: Man, what a tournament. I am exhausted. Played a total of 10 games over the weekend, including against many GT-winners, including multiple-GT winner and the winner of the 2015 LVO himself, Sean Nayden and his #Lictorshame Tyranids. Also went up against the winner of Brawl in the Fall GT, the best Tau player on the ITC and the Overall winner of the ITC, Paul McKelvey. Then I played against the winner of Templecon GT, Ken Johnson, aka GreyDragoon (hope I got his name correct). Finally I also had a game against Mike Kiser aka PanzerLeader, who has won several GT's in the Midwest including the Golden Throne Southwest and I believe The Alamo GT. Also had a game against John Parsons aka krootman as well as podcaster and the guy who runs the 11th Company GT (which ironically is where Sean Nayden won his first GT with his #Lictorshame Tyranids), Neil Gilstrap himself.
It's a shame I didn't get to face the 2 Nicks (Rose and Nanavati), but I will give them a chance to try to beat me at some future date.
Reports and pics to come when I get back from a business trip.
Great to meet you and get a fantastic game in. Looking forward to my next trip out to the coast to get some more games in against the Team Zero Comp crew.
Hey Mike. Thanks for the game and it was great to have met you.
I probably had my biggest brainfart against your army. Lol. I don't know what the heck I was thinking, but the combination of fatique, booze and late-night partying probably contributed to it.
In any case, congrats on getting the award for Best Sisters and for going 5-1. Awesome job!
.
I think that a Leviathan with SkyTyrant, or SkyBlight is plenty strong enough to make the top 5, and if the dice gawds are willing, win it all. 
The shot then misses.
One bad pairing and a lot of good pairings, it's situation I accept though.
