These are the top ten things I think the military would want most from 40k, but which one of these would you think they want most?

Mass produced Riptides would wipe the floor with everything else on this list.
Seeing as it only requires a single pilot you could field hundreds of them in one place,that'd be devastating even in 40k

Stealth Suits. Armour is always outstripped by weaponry in terms of technology in short order, so stealth is the only reliable way to avoid getting killed. The only other potential thing off that list that a modern military could want is pulse rifles, and even that is assuming fluff equivalency rather than TT scaled up, because if you go by tabletop values, a pulse rifle has a shorter accurate range than an M1 Garand.

Good point! I still cant decide between stealths and riptides

Where are lazguns?!

 koooaei wrote:
Where are lazguns?!

I'll add them on

From a no-fun real answer point of view, Power Armor. Something that enhances physical ability, sensory ability and immeasurably decreases risk to the actual person, the choice is obvious. And Mass Production makes it sound like everyone gets it. Terminator is a close second, but Power Armor is cheaper, easier to produce, and we all know how world militaries are. A penny saved is worth spending on more studies on how to save more pennies.

What no million's and billion's of guardsmen or wave serpent's
I went the sky ray. Because of it's anti grav capabilities.
Everything else is already a possibility, except for the interfacing of armour.

Autoguns. It'd be totally awesome if we could produce them in real life.

Voted stealth suits because they give similar protection to power armor along with more strength enhancement, jetpacks, and of course the stealth field.

Cheap, reliable surface to orbit transport would trump anything on the list.

Vortex grenades.

Necrons!

Agreed. Superduper battlesuits are all well and good in theory, but in practical terms a walker is not discernably better than a tank of the same mass - it's harder to armour, it has all sorts of problems with being knocked over by weapon impacts, it's a maintenance hog, etc, etc.

Huge units also struggle against what Steve Jackson calls the 'Ogre Limit' - from the game 'Ogre' - essentially, any tactical combat unit reaches its useful limit of size when it becomes powerful enough to become a strategic target; in these terms - if a battlesuit is big and powerful enough to justify calling in heavy artillery fire or airstrikes.

Riptides would be even worse - running a high-energy nova reactor they'd show up on thermal imaging like a small furnace, and whilst mobile they're not that mobile. More importantly, we have no idea of their combat endurance - but given that they're bleeding-edge tech even for the tau, I'm going to say pretty poor.

Pulse rifles are the same. Yes, they hit like a freight train. But here's the thing; we don't need firepower like that. We're shooting small arms at other humans, not Orks, or Necrons. Yes, it gives a limited anti-armour capability, but man-portable anti-armour weapons do it better, not trying to shoot up soft-skin vehicles with antipersonnel weapons. Secondly, pulse rifles are HUGE. seriously; look at the size of the things fire warriors are carrying. They're unwieldy, and the magazines are worse, given that - according to Fire Warrior and the various RPGs - they don't hold any more ammo than a standard assault rifle magazine today. Plus, transporting charged plasma is going to be even more hazardous than transporting live ballistic ammo.

See much the same for the plasma cannon. Tell any general (except maybe a DPRK one) that one shot in six is going to maim the wielder and watch yourself get ejected from the building without the door being opened for you first....

The Leman Russ is a badly designed tank. It just is. Look at the development of WWI Mk1 tanks through to current versions and it represents early WWII types - a massively high silouhette, far too cramped, and laden with point defence weapons instead of being tactically paired with supporting infantry who do the job better. Plus it apparently carries little over half a dozen shells for its main armament - not enough to maintain combat without a crippling logistics train.

The Skyray - not bad. Hovercraft tanks are a bit impractical in real terms (how well armoured can you make an engine intake, after all) but a laser-designated missile tank which can do double duty as AA and AT is a nice, tactically flexible unit.

Power and Terminator armour.... it depends. Terminator armor is incredibly tough but tactically limited, especially without teleporter tech to back it up - you can't kneel and you can't move rapidly. Yes, you're more or less immune to anything short of antitank weapons, but you're a sufficiently important target to justify employing antitank weapons against. Standard power armour is better, and is something that - depending on cost, endurance and protection - genuinely interests modern armies.

The Chimera pretty much is a modern IFV. We build them now.

Storm Bolters - it's big. heavy, and eats ammo like its going out of fashion. Plus, the ammo is stupidly expensive and it's going to kick like a mule if you use the canonical calibre of .75 calibre for 'normal' bolters. A '50 cal is more than sufficient for most realistic situations.

Stealth Battlesuits - possibly. Depends how good they are in practice; see the comments about powered armour. Active camo is great for a recon unit, as is a jet pack, but not if I can't send you out for days at a time.

And yes, the single thing armies would most like is the lasgun. The logistics train behind a modern infantry battalion is huge. Assault rifles with the same punch, but with 60 round magazines you can recharge from a diesel generator in theatre makes a huge - really huge - difference to logistics, and it's essentially logistics and recon, two things not reflected in 40k, that win wars (as opposed to battles).

I voted Lasguns, they're not the best weapon no but they'd more then suffice for modern times, and they're INCREDIABLY useful from a logistics POV.

Lasguns. Cheap, easy to mass produce, and still powerful enough to punch through light armor if the charge setting is high enough. Also, tons of ammunition that is rechargeable, has next to no recoil, and is instantaneous.

It's the AK-47 of the 41st Millennium and makes our AK-47s look like junk.

A rifle with functionally unlimited ammunition that's virtually silent, has no recoil, doesn't have bullet drop/wind issues, has no moving parts for hostile environments to muck up, and is lighter than an M16 to boot? Lasguns, hands down. Riptides and power armour may sound cool but there are a lot of points of failure involved.

(As to things not on your list a Vulture makes an AH-64 look like an arthritic chicken, if the numbers in Imperial Armour are accurate)

Terminator Armour or Riptides. Riptides have the issues that have already been described, but Terminator Armour withstands silly levels of punishment while not being the size of a small house.

SharkoutofWata wrote:From a no-fun real answer point of view, Power Armor. Something that enhances physical ability, sensory ability and immeasurably decreases risk to the actual person, the choice is obvious. And Mass Production makes it sound like everyone gets it. Terminator is a close second, but Power Armor is cheaper, easier to produce, and we all know how world militaries are. A penny saved is worth spending on more studies on how to save more pennies.

Stealth Suit does everything Power Armour does, plus fly and turn invisible. Just pointing that out.

Riptides.

Why make lasguns? I'm suprised that the lasgun got so many upvotes. Sure there is no ballistic drop but the beam will be scattered by dust or fog or precipitation. Not that the US Army ever fights in the desert or jungles.... Plus, the lethality of the SCAR-17 is pretty excellent, as well as our heavier weapons. And frankly, infantry small arms aren't that important in determining the outcome of wars, since the rifleman really only exist to protect the machine gunners.

Even the Tau can't mass produce riptides in the fluff, so us being able to do it would be amazing. Think not just about the military application but just being able to mass produce the components. Nova Reactor? There goes your climate change problem. Hyperdense lightweight alloys for armor? Those have a million uses. Freaking JET PACKS!!!! Obviously a lot of utility there, with whatever propulsion is powerful enough to move something that big with that much agility. Just for the components, a riptide would change everything, instantly.

Militarily it's got to be riptides as well. If you could mass produce them, imagine trying to defend against 5-10,000 riptides. Maybe a 120mm smoothbore would have a chance at punching riptide armor, but can you imagine trying to actually hit one? It's not easy for a tank to hit another tank, much less something as maneuverable as a riptide. It would be a nightmare in urban combat too, with it's speed and ability to maneuver around ruins and hide behind buildings then zoom up to the roof and drop accelerated plasma blasts on stuff.

Everything you say about the Riptide, except the Nova Reactor, is true on a much more practical scale of the Stealth Suit though.

If the military could mass produce riptides, they would have a greater industrial capacity than the entire star spanning tau empire.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Everything you say about the Riptide, except the Nova Reactor, is true on a much more practical scale of the Stealth Suit though.

True, but if we can mass produce both, the Riptide is qualitatively better. And I feel like a 2+ armor save is a more difficult tech than active camo. We aren't that far from active camo now but a 2+ armor save, based on Terminator armor fluff, is a miracle of materials engineering. Plus the force field or shield generator or whatever it is that gives the invulnerable save. That's a major tech leap that the riptide has which I don't believe the stealth suit does. If I'm the DoD I'd rather put everyone in a 200 point battle suit than a 20 point battlesuit, if I can mass produce either.

I knew everyone would fall for it: Where would they put the riptides?

Power armor and Terminator armor are what is closest to reality at the moment.

We could make bolters too, but they're massive overkill against human targets so they're unlikely to appear until power armor does.

I voted lasguns, for the same reasons as previous posters: high reliability, no recoil, caseless ammunition that can be recharged by a campfire, ease of use, etc.

However I'm not seeing the functionality of a riptide. Imagine it in the current theatre of war. What is a riptide going to do in battling insurgents inside cities and tight urban environments? I feel like it would bring new meaning to 'collateral damage'.

 clamclaw wrote:
I voted lasguns, for the same reasons as previous posters: high reliability, no recoil, caseless ammunition that can be recharged by a campfire, ease of use, etc.

However I'm not seeing the functionality of a riptide. Imagine it in the current theatre of war. What is a riptide going to do in battling insurgents inside cities and tight urban environments? I feel like it would bring new meaning to 'collateral damage'.

Which is why I added stealth suits into the poll. Can sneak into enemy territory and use burst cannons to take out infantry and fusion blasters to take out heavy weapons.
I'm going to add a few more in and see what people vote then (Carapace armour, Vindicator and Imperial Knight)

This is all 40k tech, so autoguns
Reason being if the the imperium pretty much fails to mass produce everything else what changes does our current world governments/military have?

Stealthsuits. They are more than just active camo, it bends light around the user making them a general blur, rather than an see-though person. That is augmented with sensor nullifying technology, making them invisible to nature and technology. They are heavily armoured, but not excessively bulky (especially the old XV15s). They have strength and movement enhancing qualities, as well as an array of sensor and communication technologies if needed. Within the tau, most teams operate mostly independently from the rest of the army, leading me to believe that they have a considerable battery/generator length. The jetpack allows for quick movement and re-positioning, as well as transport to areas they otherwise could not access. They are not too much bigger than an un-armoured human, allowing them to operate in places where other options (crisis, riptide) can't go. Assuming they keep their weaponry, the burst cannon has considerable firepower, to the point where it can take out light vehicles by it'self, and a lot of ammunition. Think about this the pulse rifle's energy pack fig a. can supply 50 shots. Now look at the burst cannon's energy source fig b.. That thing probably has at least 300 shots, and you could carry more on extended missions.



Fig a.


Fib b.

Lasguns would be fairly useless. We already have AK rifles, which have all the killing power we need and are absurdly reliable and easy and cheap to make.
What would a lasgun add to that? Sure, it is a better weapon, but how important are infantry weapons on a strategic scale?
They would be much better of with something against which contemporary armies and weapons have no answer, like power armour, Terminator armour, stealth suits or Riptides.

Lasguns would make sense from a military point of view. They are light, accurate, reliable and don;t require huge amounts of munitions unlike conventional weapons.

That said, I doubt we would see them until they are deemed to be truly needed. Equipping entire military forces with them would destroy the munitions economy, and non of the big military spending countries would want that, what with their governments being propped up by said economy.

The biggest game changer would be the stealth suits imo, though for the technology rather than the suits themselves.

If invisibility could be given to fortified positions, tanks, aircraft or naval vessels then it would be a huge game changer.

Lasguns would be a game changer, just like the Ak-47, just not in a way that the great powers wants.

Lasguns are cheap, reliable, and use easily renewable ammunition. This allows troopers to use ammo freely on campaign, and makes training far lower cost. Imagine the change to assymetric warfare or civil wars if you had essentially rechargable small arms.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Lasguns would be fairly useless. We already have AK rifles, which have all the killing power we need and are absurdly reliable and easy and cheap to make.
What would a lasgun add to that? Sure, it is a better weapon, but how important are infantry weapons on a strategic scale?
They would be much better of with something against which contemporary armies and weapons have no answer, like power armour, Terminator armour, stealth suits or Riptides.

In the end, every war is won by the soldiers on the ground.

Lasgun is far more useful, due to it's (nearly) unlimited ammunition capacity, severly cutting the stress on logistics. Also, it can be used for anything from non-lethal to stopping light vehicles.

Armour is good to have, but you are still an easy kill to anyone using something explosive (they don't need to penetrate the armour, they just need a good blast and you are paste inside the suit).

Stealth suit is good, but only to a point, since anyone with thermals can see you.

Id like to mass produce fortress monasteries

Realistically the las based weapons since it could basically always use it

Otherwise vortex grenades is probably a really cool one.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Stealth Suits. Armour is always outstripped by weaponry in terms of technology in short order, so stealth is the only reliable way to avoid getting killed.

While not a 40k matter, this statement is incredibly stupid. It's how we've ended up with the F-35, a fighter that can't climb, can't turn, and can't run, that carries exactly 2 obsolete "long" range missiles.

Any combat that occurs between 4th gen Russian or Chinese fighters and the F-35 will likely end at gun range with the foreigners as victors, because a stealthy platform with gakky weapons does a very good job at throwing a first punch that doesn't hit, and the F-35 can't escape after firing its weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
A penny saved is worth spending on more studies on how to save more pennies.

You are CLEARLY not American.

@empNortnoll: You are wrong, stealth suits could have machine guns on them

 Da Stormlord wrote:
I knew everyone would fall for it: Where would they put the riptides?

In a C-17, I imagine.

Or we could put them in a modified ICBM or space shuttle. Riptides can be deployed from orbit, after all.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Da Stormlord wrote:
I knew everyone would fall for it: Where would they put the riptides?

In a C-17, I imagine.

Or we could put them in a modified ICBM or space shuttle. Riptides can be deployed from orbit, after all.

How would the pilot last if he was stuck in a space shuttle forever? He'd go insane

 Da Stormlord wrote:
@empNortnoll: You are wrong, stealth suits could have machine guns on them

Ask any 40k player what they'd rather have- a group of six stealth suits fire on them at their max range and then be given a chance to fire back or fire at an IA Riptide at its max range and then be fired on.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, would prefer to deal with 6 stealth suits, even if the suits fired first and the Riptide didn't, if they didn't have a list tailored to kill Riptides, and even then, they probably wouldn't. Not many things out-range a Riptide.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Da Stormlord wrote:
@empNortnoll: You are wrong, stealth suits could have machine guns on them

Ask any 40k player what they'd rather have- a group of six stealth suits fire on them at their max range and then be given a chance to fire back or fire at an IA Riptide at its max range and then be fired on.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, would prefer to deal with 6 stealth suits, even if the suits fired first and the Riptide didn't, if they didn't have a list tailored to kill Riptides, and even then, they probably wouldn't. Not many things out-range a Riptide.

You still get a 3+ cover in game AS STANDARD. Its very hard to kill them

 Finlandiaperkele wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Lasguns would be fairly useless. We already have AK rifles, which have all the killing power we need and are absurdly reliable and easy and cheap to make.
What would a lasgun add to that? Sure, it is a better weapon, but how important are infantry weapons on a strategic scale?
They would be much better of with something against which contemporary armies and weapons have no answer, like power armour, Terminator armour, stealth suits or Riptides.

In the end, every war is won by the soldiers on the ground.

Lasgun is far more useful, due to it's (nearly) unlimited ammunition capacity, severly cutting the stress on logistics. Also, it can be used for anything from non-lethal to stopping light vehicles.

Armour is good to have, but you are still an easy kill to anyone using something explosive (they don't need to penetrate the armour, they just need a good blast and you are paste inside the suit).

Stealth suit is good, but only to a point, since anyone with thermals can see you.

The explosive aspect for killing stealthsuits is a good point, kind of reminds me of Iron Man. I don't care how tough your armor is. Handling that many G's and kinetic blasts will still kill any human inside. Not to say powered armor would be ineffective, since 40K armor would be nearly impenetrable to small arms fire of today.

 Da Stormlord wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Da Stormlord wrote:
I knew everyone would fall for it: Where would they put the riptides?

In a C-17, I imagine.

Or we could put them in a modified ICBM or space shuttle. Riptides can be deployed from orbit, after all.

How would the pilot last if he was stuck in a space shuttle forever? He'd go insane

Oh, you mean long-term.

Don't we already have a huge place hollowed out under Cheyenne mountain for or nuclear C&C? That'd work just fine.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Da Stormlord wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Da Stormlord wrote:
I knew everyone would fall for it: Where would they put the riptides?

In a C-17, I imagine.

Or we could put them in a modified ICBM or space shuttle. Riptides can be deployed from orbit, after all.

How would the pilot last if he was stuck in a space shuttle forever? He'd go insane

Oh, you mean long-term.

Don't we already have a huge place hollowed out under Cheyenne mountain for or nuclear C&C? That'd work just fine.

I agree on that.

 Da Stormlord wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Da Stormlord wrote:
@empNortnoll: You are wrong, stealth suits could have machine guns on them

Ask any 40k player what they'd rather have- a group of six stealth suits fire on them at their max range and then be given a chance to fire back or fire at an IA Riptide at its max range and then be fired on.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, would prefer to deal with 6 stealth suits, even if the suits fired first and the Riptide didn't, if they didn't have a list tailored to kill Riptides, and even then, they probably wouldn't. Not many things out-range a Riptide.

You still get a 3+ cover in game AS STANDARD. Its very hard to kill them

It's also easy to back out of range and pepper them with bolter fire.

Anything on an Orbital scale and its game over for whomever tries to oppose it. So any 40k orbital craft or weapons platforms.

Failing that Ork submersibles

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Da Stormlord wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Da Stormlord wrote:
@empNortnoll: You are wrong, stealth suits could have machine guns on them

Ask any 40k player what they'd rather have- a group of six stealth suits fire on them at their max range and then be given a chance to fire back or fire at an IA Riptide at its max range and then be fired on.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, would prefer to deal with 6 stealth suits, even if the suits fired first and the Riptide didn't, if they didn't have a list tailored to kill Riptides, and even then, they probably wouldn't. Not many things out-range a Riptide.

You still get a 3+ cover in game AS STANDARD. Its very hard to kill them

It's also easy to back out of range and pepper them with bolter fire.

Back out of range for maybe their game turn, in your turn you can just move forward and your also faster than space marines

 Finlandiaperkele wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Lasguns would be fairly useless. We already have AK rifles, which have all the killing power we need and are absurdly reliable and easy and cheap to make.
What would a lasgun add to that? Sure, it is a better weapon, but how important are infantry weapons on a strategic scale?
They would be much better of with something against which contemporary armies and weapons have no answer, like power armour, Terminator armour, stealth suits or Riptides.

In the end, every war is won by the soldiers on the ground.

Lasgun is far more useful, due to it's (nearly) unlimited ammunition capacity, severly cutting the stress on logistics. Also, it can be used for anything from non-lethal to stopping light vehicles.

Armour is good to have, but you are still an easy kill to anyone using something explosive (they don't need to penetrate the armour, they just need a good blast and you are paste inside the suit).

Stealth suit is good, but only to a point, since anyone with thermals can see you.

Stealth suits aren't just visual stealth. They have technology blocking them from detection via technology as well. And thermal being one of the simplest forms of such, it's laughable to think they aren't concealed against that.

You guys don't understand. The thing that all governments would love to be able to mass-produce (aside from Forge Worlds) is Meratech clan type starships!

Think about it: spaceships that can basically pilot themselves, require almost no crew except from servitors (which are hideously easy to get when you have a cruiser with bombardment cannons in orbit) , and as soon as you have one, it's easy enough to get enough resources for another.

I suppose that mass-producing forge worlds would be better, if requiring quite a bit more reality-defying tech.

Note: I voted for Imperial Knights. Even if they probably would be made obsolete pretty quickly, the simple huge technological progress they represent would make almost anything else awesome too. Plus, they're simple badass!
MOAR GIANT MECHA!!!

I went with TDA, first off, teleportation. Mass production of that would open the door for much, much more. Second, near impervious armor, we could apply that tech to current tanks and aicraft if needed. Third, shielding technology for that sweet +5 invulnerable save, again, apply that to just about everything.

Why bother with war when you can teleport a few dudes in, kill the bosses and teleport out?

 gwarsh41 wrote:
I went with TDA, first off, teleportation. Mass production of that would open the door for much, much more. Second, near impervious armor, we could apply that tech to current tanks and aicraft if needed. Third, shielding technology for that sweet +5 invulnerable save, again, apply that to just about everything.

Why bother with war when you can teleport a few dudes in, kill the bosses and teleport out?

I though the teleportation system needed psykers and a ship to work properly

Obviously riptides. Mobile - immune to damage for the most part - and can destroy anything.

 gwarsh41 wrote:


Why bother with war when you can teleport a few dudes in, kill the bosses and teleport out?

Because then you've got a hydra situation: Cut off one head, two more will take its place

 Xenomancers wrote:
Obviously riptides. Mobile - immune to damage for the most part - and can destroy anything.

Not compatible to humans

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Stealth Suits. Armour is always outstripped by weaponry in terms of technology in short order, so stealth is the only reliable way to avoid getting killed.

While not a 40k matter, this statement is incredibly stupid. It's how we've ended up with the F-35, a fighter that can't climb, can't turn, and can't run, that carries exactly 2 obsolete "long" range missiles.

Any combat that occurs between 4th gen Russian or Chinese fighters and the F-35 will likely end at gun range with the foreigners as victors, because a stealthy platform with gakky weapons does a very good job at throwing a first punch that doesn't hit, and the F-35 can't escape after firing its weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
A penny saved is worth spending on more studies on how to save more pennies.

You are CLEARLY not American.

f 35 is a massive design failure - trying to get too much technology onto a small frame - it just wont ever work as intended. Compare that to the f-22 which quite frankly is still the most advanced fighter on earth. It can dog fight but thats not it's purpose. It's purpose is to fly ahead of your airforce at high speeds while remaining invisible to detection - get target locks on enemies and fire long ranged rockets from supporting aircraft and ships and tanks. It never has to break stealth to do this. The second they open weapons bays they are just and vunerable as any other fighter - but the F22 is also one of the most maneuverable fighters in the air too - so it can match anything in the air as well.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Lasguns would be fairly useless. We already have AK rifles, which have all the killing power we need and are absurdly reliable and easy and cheap to make.
What would a lasgun add to that? Sure, it is a better weapon, but how important are infantry weapons on a strategic scale?
They would be much better of with something against which contemporary armies and weapons have no answer, like power armour, Terminator armour, stealth suits or Riptides.

Lasguns are ABSURDLY good weapons for the modern military. They're more powerful then assault rifles (they can blow up limbs or vaporize very large chunks of flesh), and they require zero logistics. The Army could gut every single truck, every single man, and every single plane dedicated to transporting ammunition for small-arms and repurpose it. Lasguns can have their ammunition recharged by pretty much everything, including camp fires, and effectively provide infinite ammunition for the soldiers using them. The amount of troops that could actually be fielded in battle to those needed to stay home and run logistics would increase in the favor of combat troops, and the lasgun would also simultaneously get rid of production of assault rifles, light machine guns, designated marksmen rifles, pistols, etc. The only thing that might remain are sniper teams, although lasguns variants could replace those as well.

Basically the only thing tying the American soldier to a supply line now would be food and water. Otherwise they're fine and could be stuck in the middle of a desert and never run out of ammo.


Also, the advantage of power armor isn't the protection it would provide us. The real boon of power armor is that we could copy the technology used to make the fusion reactor that powers it, and mass produce that. BOOM. Welcome to the fusion era, energy crisis solved. Electrical energy replaces all other forms of power in less then a decade.

Mass pordices a complete STC. all human problems solved

EmpNortonII wrote:Any combat that occurs between 4th gen Russian or Chinese fighters and the F-35 will likely end at gun range with the foreigners as victors, because a stealthy platform with gakky weapons does a very good job at throwing a first punch that doesn't hit, and the F-35 can't escape after firing its weapons.

F-35 was never meant for full-scale war. It was meant to act under Air Supremacy/Superiority, and use outer hardpoints to mount missiles. Plans for F-35 were drawn when there was no actual war to be expected. Same reason why tank technology has been lagging for the last 20+ years.

F(/A)-22 was meant to be used where the s*it was spinning in the propeller at the escape velocity. It was meant to penetrate enemy air-defence, and to be used as a First-strike craft alongside B-2, F-117 and the now canceled FB-22 Strike Raptor.

Xenomancers wrote:Obviously riptides. Mobile - immune to damage for the most part - and can destroy anything.

Yeah, even the things that are meant to be left standing. Anything even remotely titan-sized would fail on modern battlefield.

gwarsh41 wrote:I went with TDA, first off, teleportation. Mass production of that would open the door for much, much more. Second, near impervious armor, we could apply that tech to current tanks and aicraft if needed. Third, shielding technology for that sweet +5 invulnerable save, again, apply that to just about everything.

Teleportation - I think we are better off with Stealth Helicopters than start fiddling with Warp-based tech.
Armour - Assuming we can manufacture it in sufficient amounts. Also, weight. Also, pressure wave.
Shielding - Nice idea, but I think that would be rather expensive to start slapping it onto every Humvee we have.

All this assuming that we can separate any sub-systems in the first place.

gwarsh41 wrote:Why bother with war when you can teleport a few dudes in, kill the bosses and teleport out?

If it was just that simple. Also, somebody needs to do the occupation and deal with the ground forces.


Also, guys in Power Armour aren't that hard to kill. Just follow the standard protocol: If your squad can't handle it, call in artillery. Failing that, call in CAS.
Even if the suit's intact, the person inside wishes (s)he was dead.

Somethine just hit me about the lasgun. If we're mass producing and using lasguns then we're certainly making their power packs too. Those things are really good compact rechargeable power sources. Using them to make lasguns work would be one of the least interesting things we could do with them.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Lasguns would be fairly useless. We already have AK rifles, which have all the killing power we need and are absurdly reliable and easy and cheap to make.
What would a lasgun add to that? Sure, it is a better weapon, but how important are infantry weapons on a strategic scale?
They would be much better of with something against which contemporary armies and weapons have no answer, like power armour, Terminator armour, stealth suits or Riptides.

Lasguns are ABSURDLY good weapons for the modern military. They're more powerful then assault rifles (they can blow up limbs or vaporize very large chunks of flesh), and they require zero logistics. The Army could gut every single truck, every single man, and every single plane dedicated to transporting ammunition for small-arms and repurpose it. Lasguns can have their ammunition recharged by pretty much everything, including camp fires, and effectively provide infinite ammunition for the soldiers using them. The amount of troops that could actually be fielded in battle to those needed to stay home and run logistics would increase in the favor of combat troops, and the lasgun would also simultaneously get rid of production of assault rifles, light machine guns, designated marksmen rifles, pistols, etc. The only thing that might remain are sniper teams, although lasguns variants could replace those as well.

Basically the only thing tying the American soldier to a supply line now would be food and water. Otherwise they're fine and could be stuck in the middle of a desert and never run out of ammo.


Also, the advantage of power armor isn't the protection it would provide us. The real boon of power armor is that we could copy the technology used to make the fusion reactor that powers it, and mass produce that. BOOM. Welcome to the fusion era, energy crisis solved. Electrical energy replaces all other forms of power in less then a decade.

Oh, lasguns would be a great improvement, that is for sure. Just not when compared to the other things on the list. An AK does pretty much everything a lasgun does already. The only difference is that it needs bullets. But when you have an army in the field, you already have to set up a huge logistics chain (an army requires far more than just small arms munition) so you might just as well take a few crates of bullets with you on those planes and trucks you are going to be using for logistics anyway.
When you can choose between an army with infantry equipped with slightly better than average rifles or an army where every soldier is a virtually indestructable walking tank, what would you choose?

 Da Stormlord wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Da Stormlord wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Da Stormlord wrote:
@empNortnoll: You are wrong, stealth suits could have machine guns on them

Ask any 40k player what they'd rather have- a group of six stealth suits fire on them at their max range and then be given a chance to fire back or fire at an IA Riptide at its max range and then be fired on.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, would prefer to deal with 6 stealth suits, even if the suits fired first and the Riptide didn't, if they didn't have a list tailored to kill Riptides, and even then, they probably wouldn't. Not many things out-range a Riptide.

You still get a 3+ cover in game AS STANDARD. Its very hard to kill them

It's also easy to back out of range and pepper them with bolter fire.

Back out of range for maybe their game turn, in your turn you can just move forward and your also faster than space marines

Move out of cover to engage? A 3+and 3++ are the same thing against bolter fire.


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 Finlandiaperkele wrote:

In the end, every war is won by the soldiers on the ground.

I voted power armor, but it was a really hard call between that and lasguns.

I figure lasguns mass produced would give our regular troops alot of punch, but given what sorts of armor are used currently in regards to regular troops, I think it would be no more effective than our normal guns. We don't have any armies atm running around in combat armor (outside of really specialized troops units) making our normal weapons ineffective, so that means lasguns would only be just "as" effective as any other assault rifles we use now in terms of killing power.

Massed produced power armor on the other hand? Now that would change the tables immediately, and might even give rise to the need for something like a lasgun in the ensuing arms race. But until that arms race actually happened, whoever had masses of power armor would tactically be near unstoppable. And yes, the key term here is "mass produced."

Any spacecraft with FTL or near-light-speed travel device really...

But until that arms race actually happened, whoever had masses of power armor would tactically be near unstoppable

Power armour can be countered with mass missile launchers / RPG.

Lasguns are ABSURDLY good weapons for the modern military. They're more powerful then assault rifles (they can blow up limbs or vaporize very large chunks of flesh), and they require zero logistics.

Every weapon has wear and tear. Electronics and optical parts (laser lenses) wear just as mechanical parts. That's like saying a thing that is out of steel will hold for eternity, which is not the case most of the time. In fact, lenses/mirrors for lasers have to be kept very clean otherwise the dirt on them burns and damages the lense/mirror, making them unusable.
So nope, you need logistics just like for every other weapon

Armour is useless if its anything like space marine armour.

The Lasgun will make any man rich. The money it would save on logistics is huge. The implications that a recharging ammo gun would have in many weapons and platforms would also be huge.

Eventually you could adapt all the guns to run off the same ammo pack. When your support gunner needs ammo, simply give him some of your cells and so on.

The las gun would be the biggest money maker, anyone from warlords to terrorists, from military to police and so on. It would be the new AK while at the same time revolutionizing other military weapons as it gets expanded and improved upon.

Everything else in that list is either too big and or too slow to be useful, no money or use to be had.

Maybe stealth technology from the Tau Suits but they would have limited potential money and use wise compared to the humble lasgun.

 Keep wrote:
Any spacecraft with FTL or near-light-speed travel device really...

But until that arms race actually happened, whoever had masses of power armor would tactically be near unstoppable

Power armour can be countered with mass missile launchers / RPG.

Lasguns are ABSURDLY good weapons for the modern military. They're more powerful then assault rifles (they can blow up limbs or vaporize very large chunks of flesh), and they require zero logistics.

Every weapon has wear and tear. Electronics and optical parts (laser lenses) wear just as mechanical parts. That's like saying a thing that is out of steel will hold for eternity, which is not the case most of the time. In fact, lenses/mirrors for lasers have to be kept very clean otherwise the dirt on them burns and damages the lense/mirror, making them unusable.
So nope, you need logistics just like for every other weapon

Lasguns continue to function for centuries with zero maintenance, cleaning, or even care. Drop it in the sand, leave it buried for several centuries, pull it out, and it will work perfectly fine.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Da Stormlord wrote:
@empNortnoll: You are wrong, stealth suits could have machine guns on them

Ask any 40k player what they'd rather have- a group of six stealth suits fire on them at their max range and then be given a chance to fire back or fire at an IA Riptide at its max range and then be fired on.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, would prefer to deal with 6 stealth suits, even if the suits fired first and the Riptide didn't, if they didn't have a list tailored to kill Riptides, and even then, they probably wouldn't. Not many things out-range a Riptide.

Except a cruise missile. Or a guided bomb. It's a pretty big target with a fairly large signature.

40K is a very limited scope. The things that work well in 40K wouldn't necessarily work well in real life. A lot of things that work poorly in 40K would actually work fairly well in real life (assuming they can function as 40K describes them to)..

Power armour can be countered with mass missile launchers / RPG.

Neither of which really exist in mass numbers. Especially given how inaccurate a rocket propelled grenade is against any kind of moving target and would be ineffective against power armor unless if was using an EFP (which requires a direct hit).

 Desubot wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:
I went with TDA, first off, teleportation. Mass production of that would open the door for much, much more. Second, near impervious armor, we could apply that tech to current tanks and aicraft if needed. Third, shielding technology for that sweet +5 invulnerable save, again, apply that to just about everything.

Why bother with war when you can teleport a few dudes in, kill the bosses and teleport out?

I though the teleportation system needed psykers and a ship to work properly

No, although it does utilize the Warp, but its purely mechanical. It helps to have the mental shielding of the Terminator armor.

Autocannon- already exists as the tank turret or a big caliber machine gun.

Storm Bolter- Its just a bigger gun.

Carapace armor- dont we already have this?

Power Armor/TDA- we already have prototype for exoskeleton.

Riptide/Titan-just enhance the PA control and add more tech on.

LRBT, Chimera, Vindicator- what is the difference with it and modern day tank?

Lasgun=Lascannons= MultiLaser. We already have lasers. We just need better power source. Also lasers give away our positions.

Plasma- Now this harder to get but why do we need this when range decrease power and is unstable. If anything this would be a plasma blade. A realistic plasma gun would be a grenade rifle that fires cases of tiny plasma grenades.

The shuriken Cannon that fires near infinite diamond shards would be a huge leap.

A rail gun that fires any pile of metal would be ideal.

Noise Marine Sonic blasters/blast masters that cause organs to rupture behind cover would be very deadly. It essential shoots thru walls and armor. However, how do you get sound vibrations high enough past thick walls of steel and concrete? How does it work in space?

Melta tech? Needs massive power.

Lasguns. Because as already mentioned removing the need to supply a soldier with bullets and the effort involved in this is more important than most realise. Secondly (no less importantly) one of the primary reasons for the modern development of real world powered exoskeletons and smaller calibre assault rifles is to increase the firepower of a squad. Lasguns hold 60-90shots (dark heresy) and can be recharged. One aspect of the problem solved. End result: You would annihilate any other infantry force with the persistent firepower, you could improve training (by reducing costs) and you could increase the numbers of front line troops because of the logistics chain being simplified.
Also you could arm everyone on the planet. Something the ak started and the lasgun would finish. That would end well.

Terminator armor. Peacekeeping operations almost immune to casulties.

The worlds best armies wore metal before guns because if you were immune to arrows and rocks you could just walk up on people with swords. If you could make an armor immune to gunfire and most small explosives then I would wonder why we even need ammo when you could just beat people to death.

Swapping out the things we essentialy already have today

Why dont Terminators carry MultiLaser or lascannons instead of storm bolters and assault cannons when their TDA is a walking nuclear power plant? And why would you think a visible ray of light from point a to b would be a great idea? why cant the laser be invisible? A wavelength above the visible spectrum so enemies cant see where the shot originated from? Would lasers make a noise?

I would redesign TDA to carry the storm shield in one hand clutched by a power fist, the other hand with a blast master. But then the cost would be 100ppm. Or why cant they carry a tl melta gun or plasma gun? How does regular PA carry these weapons but a TDA can not?

Are pulse rifles mini rail guns? Do rail guns make noise when fired? A gauss rifle is a rail gun. when you accelerate a piece of metal on a rail of magnets, why would it make a sound if there is no friction and hammer hitting it?

The necron gauss rifle is not a gauss rifle at all. Its a plasmagun. The descriptions of gauss suggested it harvest flesh but wouldnt it be like a vacuum instead of accelerating an energy particle?

oh and wave serpents. I would like a special shielding that can be used as a weapon that shoots thru walls miles away. Seriously, this thing was a mistake that refuses to be corrected. how do you even Explain this Technology?

The wave serpents wins hands down as it can hover and never get hit by land mines, all terrain, doesnt need gas and is very fast. Carry any army. Speed and mobility are most important.

I'm gonna go with a tricked out Falcon.
That'd give us a high-firepower (with functional laser and plasma weapons), long-range gunship with anti-grav technology thrown in for good measure, not to mention all the other technological gewgaws the Eldar have put in to protect it (Holofield and vectored/star engines spring to mind).

Not to mention the sheer speed of the thing.

Am I really the only person who understands that the obvious correct answer is the Manta? You know, the FTL-capable starship with enough firepower to effortlessly annihilate anything else on the list? Mass-produced lasguns save you some money on ammunition. Mass-produced Mantas change the entire existence of humanity.

 Peregrine wrote:
Am I really the only person who understands that the obvious correct answer is the Manta? You know, the FTL-capable starship with enough firepower to effortlessly annihilate anything else on the list? Mass-produced lasguns save you some money on ammunition. Mass-produced Mantas change the entire existence of humanity.

While we're at it, how about a Craftworld? You know, wraithbone and such. Or Necron tombship. Gotta love dat living metal.

In the end, possibility of getting anything from 40k to modern world would be huge for the military.

 Finlandiaperkele wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Am I really the only person who understands that the obvious correct answer is the Manta? You know, the FTL-capable starship with enough firepower to effortlessly annihilate anything else on the list? Mass-produced lasguns save you some money on ammunition. Mass-produced Mantas change the entire existence of humanity.

While we're at it, how about a Craftworld? You know, wraithbone and such. Or Necron tombship. Gotta love dat living metal.

In the end, possibility of getting anything from 40k to modern world would be huge for the military.

Does it have water? Because if so I want it.

 Peregrine wrote:
Am I really the only person who understands that the obvious correct answer is the Manta? You know, the FTL-capable starship with enough firepower to effortlessly annihilate anything else on the list? Mass-produced lasguns save you some money on ammunition. Mass-produced Mantas change the entire existence of humanity.

I think that was a late addition to the poll. But as I said earlier, any of the setting's various means of getting into space reliably would be leaps and bounds ahead of the rest.

 Raxmei wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Am I really the only person who understands that the obvious correct answer is the Manta? You know, the FTL-capable starship with enough firepower to effortlessly annihilate anything else on the list? Mass-produced lasguns save you some money on ammunition. Mass-produced Mantas change the entire existence of humanity.

I think that was a late addition to the poll. But as I said earlier, any of the setting's various means of getting into space reliably would be leaps and bounds ahead of the rest.

It is an extra addition to the poll, I added 5 more and replaced the ones we essentialy already have

 Wyzilla wrote:
Lasguns continue to function for centuries with zero maintenance, cleaning, or even care. Drop it in the sand, leave it buried for several centuries, pull it out, and it will work perfectly fine.

Wrong! Read imperial infantrymans uplifting primer. Why would there be a Lasgun maintenance kit (including oiling agent, muzzlerod, holy toolbox with repair instruments, spare lasgun stock, spare lasgun barrel and more) if it doesnt need maintenance? Also, why is it field stripable if it doesnt need maintenance? A maintenance free humanmade infantry weapon is completely unrealistic

The idea that they could sit for a hundred years in sand and work as good as new is a very stupid one. Work after you got it stripped and cleaned up, possibly needing a new battery back, and maybe some new wires and stuff because of corrosion, maybe.

Imperial knights beacuse who dosn't love massive mechs hitting things in the face.

 Filch wrote:
Why dont Terminators carry MultiLaser or lascannons instead of storm bolters and assault cannons when their TDA is a walking nuclear power plant? And why would you think a visible ray of light from point a to b would be a great idea? why cant the laser be invisible? A wavelength above the visible spectrum so enemies cant see where the shot originated from? Would lasers make a noise?

I would redesign TDA to carry the storm shield in one hand clutched by a power fist, the other hand with a blast master. But then the cost would be 100ppm. Or why cant they carry a tl melta gun or plasma gun? How does regular PA carry these weapons but a TDA can not?

Are pulse rifles mini rail guns? Do rail guns make noise when fired? A gauss rifle is a rail gun. when you accelerate a piece of metal on a rail of magnets, why would it make a sound if there is no friction and hammer hitting it?

The necron gauss rifle is not a gauss rifle at all. Its a plasmagun. The descriptions of gauss suggested it harvest flesh but wouldnt it be like a vacuum instead of accelerating an energy particle?

oh and wave serpents. I would like a special shielding that can be used as a weapon that shoots thru walls miles away. Seriously, this thing was a mistake that refuses to be corrected. how do you even Explain this Technology?

The wave serpents wins hands down as it can hover and never get hit by land mines, all terrain, doesnt need gas and is very fast. Carry any army. Speed and mobility are most important.

Rail guns most certainly make noise. Anything that causes a projectile to break the sound barrier will make a VERY loud noise. (the main advantage of rail guns as opposed to cannons is increased velocity of the projectile - so explosives are not needed to achieve penetration and range is dramatically increased as well - it's disadvantages are they need large generators to achieve required energies to gain high velocities. So they can only really be used on ships/ possibly large artillery pieces/ or mounted on the groud.)

Lasers on the other hand - can be invisible and make 0 noise outside of their power generator - I assume pulse rifles are laser weapons that fire high energy laser pulses - I'm sure most lasers will incorporate this kind of technology because it has higher peak potential and therefore will be more destructive to targets that are moving and unable to be focused on.

Realistically we already have these technologies. They will be commonplace on most military vessels and tanks withing the century. Not sure about hand held weapons because lasers really don't offer anything that projectile weapons do for small arms. Small arms need to be lightweight and reliable and have high rate of fire - it's unlikely laser weapons will ever have all of these things at the same time. Lasers will likely be used an intercept systems for missiles perhaps large lasers will be used as precision snipers to destroy key elements without much collateral damage. Rail-guns on the other hand will likely become a mainstay offensive weapons - due to range - difficulty to intercept - and cheapness of projectiles - they will replace missiles in a lot of offensive and even defensive capacities.


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 Co'tor Shas wrote:
The idea that they could sit for a hundred years in sand and work as good as new is a very stupid one. Work after you got it stripped and cleaned up, possibly needing a new battery back, and maybe some new wires and stuff because of corrosion, maybe.

Theres no doubt that a laser weapon is going to have some very delicate parts. It's also a much more complicated weapon that projectiles so it's really unlikely it will be lighter, or more reliable than projectile weapons.

Pulse weapons are the bastard child of a coil gun and a plasma gun. They won't be as loud as your conventional rifle, but they will still make noise. The only real noise tau rail guns make from range is the sound of the projectile, but the projectile has already hit by the time you hear it.

 Peregrine wrote:
Am I really the only person who understands that the obvious correct answer is the Manta? You know, the FTL-capable starship with enough firepower to effortlessly annihilate anything else on the list? Mass-produced lasguns save you some money on ammunition. Mass-produced Mantas change the entire existence of humanity.

I don't play with FW stuff so I have no idea what it is...obviously if it's a giant star-ship it's the most powerful thing on the list.

It's not a giant star ship (it's used as a bomber in FBG) but it is hilariouslt big in compared to most thing you will see on the battlefield.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Pulse weapons are the bastard child of a coil gun and a plasma gun. They won't be as loud as your conventional rifle, but they will still make noise. The only real noise tau rail guns make from range is the sound of the projectile, but the projectile has already hit by the time you hear it.

This is true about all projectile weapons. You'll be on the ground before you hear the shot. They are loud though.

Yep, but (considering their effecting range) the sound of the actual weapon won't be what alerts you. It will be the sound of a hypersonic round punching through the side of a tank.

realistically, bolters. Simple, basically small missile launchers that could be fired by every infantry man. No more dealing with cover, or having to worry about kill shots. Second would be power armor, because protection.

Come one, stealth suits! Same protection and strength enhacement as PA, but with stealth and jetpacks (as well as all the tau sensor and communications gear).

But… But… Power armor and space marines… and for the Emperor and stuff?! *Whines*

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Come one, stealth suits! Same protection and strength enhacement as PA, but with stealth and jetpacks (as well as all the tau sensor and communications gear).

The stealth suit for sure would be valuable. Though stealth tech always has a counter and as soon as it becomes standard the tech becomes next to useless. Also I really wouldn't equate stealth suits to power armor at all - maybe in game terms because they both confer a 3+ but in terms of fluff I'd say PA is much more resilient.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Come one, stealth suits! Same protection and strength enhacement as PA, but with stealth and jetpacks (as well as all the tau sensor and communications gear).

The stealth suit for sure would be valuable. Though stealth tech always has a counter and as soon as it becomes standard the tech becomes next to useless. Also I really wouldn't equate stealth suits to power armor at all - maybe in game terms because they both confer a 3+ but in terms of fluff I'd say PA is much more resilient.

No, the martial that the tau uses (IIRC the name has a k and too many apostasies) is actualy stronger and lighter than ceramitite. Now a stealth suited tau will die faster than a PAed space marines beause it's a space marines in inside there, but a PAed human will take the same amount of damage as a stealth suited human.

 Hyglar's Hellraiser wrote:
Lasguns. Because as already mentioned removing the need to supply a soldier with bullets and the effort involved in this is more important than most realise. Secondly (no less importantly) one of the primary reasons for the modern development of real world powered exoskeletons and smaller calibre assault rifles is to increase the firepower of a squad. Lasguns hold 60-90shots (dark heresy) and can be recharged. One aspect of the problem solved. End result: You would annihilate any other infantry force with the persistent firepower, you could improve training (by reducing costs) and you could increase the numbers of front line troops because of the logistics chain being simplified.
Also you could arm everyone on the planet. Something the ak started and the lasgun would finish. That would end well.

Unless that other infantry force would have chosen the mass production of Terminator Armour option. Think about that. It would make a single soldier stronger than a modern MBT. The lasgun is not going to give anywhere near as much firepower to an infantry squad as Terminator armour will.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Hyglar's Hellraiser wrote:
Lasguns. Because as already mentioned removing the need to supply a soldier with bullets and the effort involved in this is more important than most realise. Secondly (no less importantly) one of the primary reasons for the modern development of real world powered exoskeletons and smaller calibre assault rifles is to increase the firepower of a squad. Lasguns hold 60-90shots (dark heresy) and can be recharged. One aspect of the problem solved. End result: You would annihilate any other infantry force with the persistent firepower, you could improve training (by reducing costs) and you could increase the numbers of front line troops because of the logistics chain being simplified.
Also you could arm everyone on the planet. Something the ak started and the lasgun would finish. That would end well.

Unless that other infantry force would have chosen the mass production of Terminator Armour option. Think about that. It would make a single soldier stronger than a modern MBT. The lasgun is not going to give anywhere near as much firepower to an infantry squad as Terminator armour will.

So we are going to keep ignoring the required black carapace and interface to actually use all this equipment like terminator armor and riptides? and even power armor. edit: now sisters armor i can get behind

Terminator armor can be worn without the Black Carapace.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Terminator armor can be worn without the Black Carapace.

Are we talking inquisitor grade terminator armor? because i though Space marine armor did. if so bleh i forgot about human scale gear

Inquisitor grade stuff, yeah.

I gave it too much thought, I think. I chose Wave Serpent because of the incorporated technologies and the individual advancements they would represent.

They way I see it, if we are going of the original idea that the military has the ability to mass produce ANY of these things regardless of the actual problems in doing so (as if they had a "Build Now" button at the end of an assembly line) the sure way to go would be Riptides or IKs
Viewing real world production problems/limits the lasgun makes the most sense, an easy way to no longer need to produce ammunition=more production of lasguns/spare money
Regardless, power armor would likely be the most beneficial to be made, but we are simply a few steps behind to achieve something like that, and if we were to consider the original thought of problems/limits don't exist then I still stand that why not make the bigger stuff then?
thats my 2 1/2 cents

 Bobthehero wrote:
Inquisitor grade stuff, yeah.

Mmmmm then yeah. it doesn't really upgrade your Strength (in game stat wise) but the invul and protection aspect is nice. though its still not invulnerable. even daggers and thrown objects can kill them. as well IIRC Inquisitor grade equipment doesnt have built in storm bolteres or power fists so it will generally be defenseless besides standard equipment. as well im 99% sure the teleportator works only off of ships and needs psychic support to work properly.

Edit: but my original question kinda still stands. are we really ignore the fact that we cannot possibly interact with Tau neuro interface? (just remembered humans can kinda interact with eldar stuff)

Just the power storage tech behind stuff like las guns and pulse weaponry would be enough. Lasguns get something like 60-70 shots (sometimes more, it varies in the fluff), and pulse rifles which require even more power get 50, so once we got that, we might be able to see things like energy and magnetic based weaponry, powered exo-skeletons, ect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well PA and Termy armour doesn't need the black carapase, it's just more clunky without it, I I think we can just hand wave the tau stuff to assume it's been altered for human use.

 Desubot wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Inquisitor grade stuff, yeah.

Mmmmm then yeah. it doesn't really upgrade your Strength (in game stat wise) but the invul and protection aspect is nice. though its still not invulnerable. even daggers and thrown objects can kill them. as well IIRC Inquisitor grade equipment doesnt have built in storm bolteres or power fists so it will generally be defenseless besides standard equipment. as well im 99% sure the teleportator works only off of ships and needs psychic support to work properly.

Edit: but my original question kinda still stands. are we really ignore the fact that we cannot possibly interact with Tau neuro interface? (just remembered humans can kinda interact with eldar stuff)

It's feasible to assume we could reverse engineer our own interface or maybe just create a much more simplistic piloting method and in the process upgrade to bs 4? lol. Pretty funny to me that they have some advanced system integration and still only have bs 3.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Inquisitor grade stuff, yeah.

Mmmmm then yeah. it doesn't really upgrade your Strength (in game stat wise) but the invul and protection aspect is nice. though its still not invulnerable. even daggers and thrown objects can kill them. as well IIRC Inquisitor grade equipment doesnt have built in storm bolteres or power fists so it will generally be defenseless besides standard equipment. as well im 99% sure the teleportator works only off of ships and needs psychic support to work properly.

Edit: but my original question kinda still stands. are we really ignore the fact that we cannot possibly interact with Tau neuro interface? (just remembered humans can kinda interact with eldar stuff)

It's feasible to assume we could reverse engineer our own interface or maybe just create a much more simplistic piloting method and in the process upgrade to bs 4? lol. Pretty funny to me that they have some advanced system integration and still only have bs 3.

IIRC it wouldn't be considering the whole thing is neuro based. if it was mechanical then yeah i dont think it would be an issue but, unless every riptide comes with a dead tau pilot that we can science on, its probably going to be a LOOOOOOOOONG time before we can figure out how to use any of it.

That's long been an annoyance of mine. They are soldiers trained literally from birth, with amazingly accurate weapons, combined with a vast array of tracking and aiming software, and their only BS3? Balance issues I suppose. But seriously, at least fething bodyguards should be BS4. Bodyguards are formed out of the commander old unit (in the original fluff anyway, not sure if that;s changed), so they have just as much experience as they do.

Dont the Tau havesight problems? They might be BS 2 without the system integration and human with e'm would be BS4

They have slightly slower focusing times because their pupils don't dialate (making them bad at close up things), but that shouldn't hurt their ability to aim.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Dont the Tau havesight problems? They might be BS 2 without the system integration and human with e'm would be BS4

They have depth perception problems IIRC which makes no sense since they can easily make lenses already... they really should trade the imperium for 4 eyes technomancy already. edit: was it focusing time?

Yeah, although I think the information came from xenology, so it's tentative canon. It would explain why a race trained to be soldiers from birth can't even match the untrained in CC though,

 Keep wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Lasguns continue to function for centuries with zero maintenance, cleaning, or even care. Drop it in the sand, leave it buried for several centuries, pull it out, and it will work perfectly fine.

Wrong! Read imperial infantrymans uplifting primer. Why would there be a Lasgun maintenance kit (including oiling agent, muzzlerod, holy toolbox with repair instruments, spare lasgun stock, spare lasgun barrel and more) if it doesnt need maintenance? Also, why is it field stripable if it doesnt need maintenance? A maintenance free humanmade infantry weapon is completely unrealistic

You mean the book that people in-universe don't care about and treat as toilet paper? The only reason they even have a cleaning kit is because of Munitorium nonsense, however lasguns almost never break, and require zero care to function properly. The only thing you have to worry about is overcharging or destabilizing the battery packs, as that can turn them into extremely potent explosives.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Yeah, although I think the information came from xenology, so it's tentative canon. It would explain why a race trained to be soldiers from birth can't even match the untrained in CC though,

There is also the fact that the to the tabletop rules do not always correspond to the fluff for balance purposes.

 Wyzilla wrote:
You mean the book that people in-universe don't care about and treat as toilet paper? The only reason they even have a cleaning kit is because of Munitorium nonsense, however lasguns almost never break, and require zero care to function properly. The only thing you have to worry about is overcharging or destabilizing the battery packs, as that can turn them into extremely potent explosives.

It doesnt matter what people in universe do with the book. If it wasnt necessary to have maintenaince and repair kit, they wouldn't have it, because it takes ressources. Therefore its required.
Lasguns have mechanisms, electronics and optics. All those require cleaning and/or maintenance in the real world, and apparently so, also in 40k.

Gaunt's Ghosts goes into some detail on the maintenance required of a lasgun. Though the specifics are going to vary based on the specific pattern of lasgun (i.e., if it has an actual trigger rather than a firing stud), some common themes are obvious.

The focusing lens needs to be kept clean, the power-pack contacts need to be kept clean, the trigger assembly (if present) needs to be kept clean, and whatever it has for a barrel (possibly sections between focusing lenses) needs to be kept free of carbon scoring, debris and otherwise cleaned.

So, yes, Lasguns have maintenance requirements... but nothing like the maintenance currently required for the M16A2, while permitting an individual soldier to carry ten times as much ammunition without need for resupply. The powerpacks recharge themselves being exposed to the sun, or connected to a generator... in a pinch, you can throw it into a fire (though this is noted as damaging to the pack, reducing its overall charge capacity). That is a level of miraculous technology and, even in modern warfare, it is the infantry that takes and holds territory.

Also, and perhaps most-importantly? All of these devices will eventually end up in the hands of other nation-states, regardless of who builds them first. Whether subject to theft, capture, industrial espionage, reverse-engineering, or whatever, no single country is going to maintain a monopoly on the Riptide, Power Armor, Wave Serpent, Baneblade or anything else.

Probably best if you don't have every Tom, Dick and Harry on the planet having super-weapons.

 Keep wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
You mean the book that people in-universe don't care about and treat as toilet paper? The only reason they even have a cleaning kit is because of Munitorium nonsense, however lasguns almost never break, and require zero care to function properly. The only thing you have to worry about is overcharging or destabilizing the battery packs, as that can turn them into extremely potent explosives.

It doesnt matter what people in universe do with the book. If it wasnt necessary to have maintenaince and repair kit, they wouldn't have it, because it takes ressources. Therefore its required.
Lasguns have mechanisms, electronics and optics. All those require cleaning and/or maintenance in the real world, and apparently so, also in 40k.

Except they don't, because we have at least one example of a lasgun surviving for centuries under the 'care" of Feral Worlders who think a vox machine is the Ark of the Covenant.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Hyglar's Hellraiser wrote:
Lasguns. Because as already mentioned removing the need to supply a soldier with bullets and the effort involved in this is more important than most realise. Secondly (no less importantly) one of the primary reasons for the modern development of real world powered exoskeletons and smaller calibre assault rifles is to increase the firepower of a squad. Lasguns hold 60-90shots (dark heresy) and can be recharged. One aspect of the problem solved. End result: You would annihilate any other infantry force with the persistent firepower, you could improve training (by reducing costs) and you could increase the numbers of front line troops because of the logistics chain being simplified.
Also you could arm everyone on the planet. Something the ak started and the lasgun would finish. That would end well.

Unless that other infantry force would have chosen the mass production of Terminator Armour option. Think about that. It would make a single soldier stronger than a modern MBT. The lasgun is not going to give anywhere near as much firepower to an infantry squad as Terminator armour will.

... and since Terminator armor is, in and of itself, pointedly inferior to the Riptide...

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Hyglar's Hellraiser wrote:
Lasguns. Because as already mentioned removing the need to supply a soldier with bullets and the effort involved in this is more important than most realise. Secondly (no less importantly) one of the primary reasons for the modern development of real world powered exoskeletons and smaller calibre assault rifles is to increase the firepower of a squad. Lasguns hold 60-90shots (dark heresy) and can be recharged. One aspect of the problem solved. End result: You would annihilate any other infantry force with the persistent firepower, you could improve training (by reducing costs) and you could increase the numbers of front line troops because of the logistics chain being simplified.
Also you could arm everyone on the planet. Something the ak started and the lasgun would finish. That would end well.

Unless that other infantry force would have chosen the mass production of Terminator Armour option. Think about that. It would make a single soldier stronger than a modern MBT. The lasgun is not going to give anywhere near as much firepower to an infantry squad as Terminator armour will.

... and since Terminator armor is, in and of itself, pointedly inferior to the Riptide...

I doubt riptide would fit into any regular-sized human building or transport. What would it's point be if >90% firefights are in city-based or jungle enviroment.

 koooaei wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Hyglar's Hellraiser wrote:
Lasguns. Because as already mentioned removing the need to supply a soldier with bullets and the effort involved in this is more important than most realise. Secondly (no less importantly) one of the primary reasons for the modern development of real world powered exoskeletons and smaller calibre assault rifles is to increase the firepower of a squad. Lasguns hold 60-90shots (dark heresy) and can be recharged. One aspect of the problem solved. End result: You would annihilate any other infantry force with the persistent firepower, you could improve training (by reducing costs) and you could increase the numbers of front line troops because of the logistics chain being simplified.
Also you could arm everyone on the planet. Something the ak started and the lasgun would finish. That would end well.

Unless that other infantry force would have chosen the mass production of Terminator Armour option. Think about that. It would make a single soldier stronger than a modern MBT. The lasgun is not going to give anywhere near as much firepower to an infantry squad as Terminator armour will.

... and since Terminator armor is, in and of itself, pointedly inferior to the Riptide...

I doubt riptide would fit into any regular-sized human building or transport. What would it's point be if >90% firefights are in city-based or jungle enviroment.

It could fit wherever an Abrams could go if you have it crouch down.

Jungle fighting is great when your giant robot can crash through terrain that tanks can't- jungles make the Riptide better, not worse.

Against conventional forces, it does as well in cities, jet-packing from rooftop to rooftop, firing on forces below it.

Ha, the one thing the military want is a battlefliet gothic battleship off course massive fire power, shields, ability to go to other systems to colonize or for resources, no current weaponry would be able to reach it and it would just vaporize and country that acts up.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

I doubt riptide would fit into any regular-sized human building or transport. What would it's point be if >90% firefights are in city-based or jungle enviroment.

It could fit wherever an Abrams could go if you have it crouch down.

Jungle fighting is great when your giant robot can crash through terrain that tanks can't- jungles make the Riptide better, not worse.

Against conventional forces, it does as well in cities, jet-packing from rooftop to rooftop, firing on forces below it.

Aaaaand Abrams is awful for city and jungle fights.

Your giant robots won't be able to crash through giant jungle trees. Even if they could it'd be one very ineffective use of resources and your location would get revealed easilly - means you're never fighting on your terms.

So how's jumping over roofs gona help you getting into buildings without demolishing them?

And it's not that much better than a tank in the open field. It might be more mobile but it's significantly higher => easy target.

Pretty useless piece of tech for modern military needs.

It would be a flyer. Or orbital platform. So many things on the list that wouldn't even be considered. Power armour would not be even a thought. We don't fight those kinds of wars. Everything would be unmanned.

How about and air caste orbital city? Or even better, a fortress station (a giant space station, with a population of a continent sized city).

Blackstone Fortress?

Terra forming capabilities. Hello moon, hello mars.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Blackstone Fortress?

Even better. Who doesn't want the power do blow up suns?

 koooaei wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

I doubt riptide would fit into any regular-sized human building or transport. What would it's point be if >90% firefights are in city-based or jungle enviroment.

It could fit wherever an Abrams could go if you have it crouch down.

Jungle fighting is great when your giant robot can crash through terrain that tanks can't- jungles make the Riptide better, not worse.

Against conventional forces, it does as well in cities, jet-packing from rooftop to rooftop, firing on forces below it.

Aaaaand Abrams is awful for city and jungle fights.

Your giant robots won't be able to crash through giant jungle trees. Even if they could it'd be one very ineffective use of resources and your location would get revealed easilly - means you're never fighting on your terms.

So how's jumping over roofs gona help you getting into buildings without demolishing them?

And it's not that much better than a tank in the open field. It might be more mobile but it's significantly higher => easy target.

Pretty useless piece of tech for modern military needs.

The riptide would function pretty well in cities. Due to it's speed and range it could stand far off in reserve and be called upon to break enemy defensive positions with relative ease.

IMO it would be a nearly unstoppable siege weapon.

Tau Manta. Only thing on the list with an FTL drive. Can also function as an intercontinental transport and as a land battleship.

I think a lot of people did not grasp the meaning of MASS PRODUCE. They are too focused on logistics, costs, theater of battle. mission objectives etc and blindly disregard the benefits of the item itself.

Mass produce usually means the item will be cheap to produce, have adapate infructures to build, maintain. etc.

In other words. If each of the selection costs just 1pt to buy in a game of 40K. which would you choose? (playing unbound of course)

Plasma cannons.

This of course assumes no cost limiter I take it?

Then the answer is easy: Imperial Knights. If they could produce knights in the millions, then it is game over.

Mantas would annihilate knights any day of the week.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

I doubt riptide would fit into any regular-sized human building or transport. What would it's point be if >90% firefights are in city-based or jungle enviroment.

It could fit wherever an Abrams could go if you have it crouch down.

Jungle fighting is great when your giant robot can crash through terrain that tanks can't- jungles make the Riptide better, not worse.

Against conventional forces, it does as well in cities, jet-packing from rooftop to rooftop, firing on forces below it.

Aaaaand Abrams is awful for city and jungle fights.

Your giant robots won't be able to crash through giant jungle trees. Even if they could it'd be one very ineffective use of resources and your location would get revealed easilly - means you're never fighting on your terms.

So how's jumping over roofs gona help you getting into buildings without demolishing them?

And it's not that much better than a tank in the open field. It might be more mobile but it's significantly higher => easy target.

Pretty useless piece of tech for modern military needs.

The riptide would function pretty well in cities. Due to it's speed and range it could stand far off in reserve and be called upon to break enemy defensive positions with relative ease.

IMO it would be a nearly unstoppable siege weapon.

Cruise Missiles make anything larger then a tank completely pointless and useless in modern combat- unless they have something like void shields on titans to ward off missiles or nukes, they aren't going to do much.

The riptides overcharged shield can fend off deathstrike missiles.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
The riptides overcharged shield can fend off deathstrike missiles.

And then it gets hit by another one. And another one. And another one. Same with AGTM. All of which are far cheaper to make then a Riptide. Same with Baneblades.

Same with everything on this list, asside from the manta, because it would be very hard to hit.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Same with everything on this list, asside from the manta, because it would be very hard to hit.

The difference is that they won't be chucking cruise missiles/AGTM at stealth suits or power armor.

If they can pinpoint multiple cruise missiles on a the very mobile riptide, than they can hit a squad of PAed soldiers.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
If they can pinpoint multiple cruise missiles on a the very mobile riptide, than they can hit a squad of PAed soldiers.

Considering Knights canonically have killed Riptides, their mobility is being overblown if a lumbering mech can simply walk up and punch it with an over-sized chainsword.

Think about it this way, it's like trying to hit a car moving at 60mph with a cruise missile, it's not pinpoint, it's hammering the entire area. Anything will die to that. And if we have the ablty to fire cuise missiles at the battlefield, than why aren't we firing them at the other enemies base.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Think about it this way, it's like trying to hit a car moving at 60mph with a cruise missile, it's not pinpoint, it's hammering the entire area. Anything will die to that. And if we have the ablty to fire cuise missiles at the battlefield, than why aren't we firing them at the other enemies base.

Because any competent military base probably has missile defenses if there's an enemy boat off shore loaded with missiles and bombarding their location? There isn't even a single damn point to using something as big as a Riptide or Knight, we already have vehicles that can cause that much damage- they're called fighter-bombers. An F-35 is going to wreak a lot more havoc then a Riptide, while also having the advantage of being several thousand feet in the air- at an altitude where things like Drones or missile boats isn't going to be a real threat, and the only thing that can threaten the pilot are SAM batteries and interceptors.

I agree, that's why I voted for stealth suits.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Blackstone Fortress?

Even better. Who doesn't want the power do blow up suns?

Believe it or not, Obama. Did you hear about that petition to build the death star he refused?

Death Stars don't blow up suns.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Mantas would annihilate knights any day of the week.

You've got knights with shields that ignore half of the hits incoming.

If you can create huge numbers of ground units, they can concentrate their other effort at air support. Of course you could flip that around too I understand that, as in mass produced Mantas allow for more money towards ground troops.

Still, Knights are tough to beat in regard to ground attack.

We already have options of blowing up other people's stuff with extreme efficiency. What we don't have is ways to make small numbers of people extremely effective while limiting the number of dead soldiers.

Power Armor. You don't win wars without taking and holding ground, and you don't take and hold ground without boots on it. 5 dudes in power armor could stroll through any engagement zone and walk out unscathed, while murdering a bunch of dudes, while perserving the landscape and buildings.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Think about it this way, it's like trying to hit a car moving at 60mph with a cruise missile, it's not pinpoint, it's hammering the entire area. Anything will die to that. And if we have the ablty to fire cuise missiles at the battlefield, than why aren't we firing them at the other enemies base.

. An F-35 is going to wreak a lot more havoc then a Riptide,.

You need to read up on an F-35's bomb load (or lack thereof).

A Riptide is capable of firing at aircraft and killing them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
If they can pinpoint multiple cruise missiles on a the very mobile riptide, than they can hit a squad of PAed soldiers.

Considering Knights canonically have killed Riptides, their mobility is being overblown if a lumbering mech can simply walk up and punch it with an over-sized chainsword.

Everyone gets unlucky sometimes... but Riptides kill knights just as easily... ranged weapons are great like that.

At any rate, I'm unaware of an Imperial Knight with high anti-aircraft capabilities.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Think about it this way, it's like trying to hit a car moving at 60mph with a cruise missile, it's not pinpoint, it's hammering the entire area. Anything will die to that. And if we have the ablty to fire cuise missiles at the battlefield, than why aren't we firing them at the other enemies base.

. An F-35 is going to wreak a lot more havoc then a Riptide,.

You need to read up on an F-35's bomb load (or lack thereof).

A Riptide is capable of firing at aircraft and killing them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
If they can pinpoint multiple cruise missiles on a the very mobile riptide, than they can hit a squad of PAed soldiers.

Considering Knights canonically have killed Riptides, their mobility is being overblown if a lumbering mech can simply walk up and punch it with an over-sized chainsword.

Everyone gets unlucky sometimes... but Riptides kill knights just as easily... ranged weapons are great like that.

At any rate, I'm unaware of an Imperial Knight with high anti-aircraft capabilities.

The Riptide is capable of firing on nonsensical 40K aircraft flying several hundred feet off the ground.

Contrary to what Hollywood or 40K taught you, real aircraft fight at such high altitutdes the Riptide won't even be capable of spotting them. You don't hear or see anything right up till you get a bomb or missile to the face.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Think about it this way, it's like trying to hit a car moving at 60mph with a cruise missile, it's not pinpoint, it's hammering the entire area. Anything will die to that. And if we have the ablty to fire cuise missiles at the battlefield, than why aren't we firing them at the other enemies base.

. An F-35 is going to wreak a lot more havoc then a Riptide,.

You need to read up on an F-35's bomb load (or lack thereof).

A Riptide is capable of firing at aircraft and killing them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
If they can pinpoint multiple cruise missiles on a the very mobile riptide, than they can hit a squad of PAed soldiers.

Considering Knights canonically have killed Riptides, their mobility is being overblown if a lumbering mech can simply walk up and punch it with an over-sized chainsword.

Everyone gets unlucky sometimes... but Riptides kill knights just as easily... ranged weapons are great like that.

At any rate, I'm unaware of an Imperial Knight with high anti-aircraft capabilities.

The Riptide is capable of firing on nonsensical 40K aircraft flying several hundred feet off the ground.

Contrary to what Hollywood or 40K taught you, real aircraft fight at such high altitutdes the Riptide won't even be capable of spotting them. You don't hear or see anything right up till you get a bomb or missile to the face.

... assuming, of course, the Riptide doesn't have a radar array to detect incoming aircraft or bombs.

Oh wait! It does!

 PhillyT wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Mantas would annihilate knights any day of the week.

You've got knights with shields that ignore half of the hits incoming.

If you can create huge numbers of ground units, they can concentrate their other effort at air support. Of course you could flip that around too I understand that, as in mass produced Mantas allow for more money towards ground troops.

Still, Knights are tough to beat in regard to ground attack.

By fluff, not crunch. By crunch mantas are rather bad for their cost, but in fluff, they are powerful enough to be bale to damage giant startships.Not massive damage, but damage non the less. Heavy rail guns one shot titans w/o void shields. I still go for stealth suits though.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Mantas would annihilate knights any day of the week.

You've got knights with shields that ignore half of the hits incoming.

If you can create huge numbers of ground units, they can concentrate their other effort at air support. Of course you could flip that around too I understand that, as in mass produced Mantas allow for more money towards ground troops.

Still, Knights are tough to beat in regard to ground attack.

By fluff, not crunch. By crunch mantas are rather bad for their cost, but in fluff, they are powerful enough to be bale to damage giant startships.Not massive damage, but damage non the less. Heavy rail guns one shot titans w/o void shields. I still go for stealth suits though.

Indeed if some how the OP rules that any and all xeno tech can suddenly be used properly by humans. Tau wise i would pick the Stealth suit over the riptide. only to be able to hide in the womans locker room in plain sight
Eldar/dark eldar wise...... a jet bike or the Dark eldar hover board
Ork... pass i dont want to asplode
Necrons...... not sure.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
From a no-fun real answer point of view, Power Armor. Something that enhances physical ability, sensory ability and immeasurably decreases risk to the actual person, the choice is obvious. And Mass Production makes it sound like everyone gets it. Terminator is a close second, but Power Armor is cheaper, easier to produce, and we all know how world militaries are. A penny saved is worth spending on more studies on how to save more pennies.

This, Power Armor, but not for the reasons most people would assume. It has less to do with force protection and more to do with logistics. If you could get each infantryman to carry 300 lbs on his back, you'd basically mitigate a great deal of the required logistics chain to keep him supplied.

Also, Power Armor would be useful outside of combat as well. Want to load a bunch of trucks quickly? Suit up, Jobnick!

 Desubot wrote:


Indeed if some how the OP rules that any and all xeno tech can suddenly be used properly by humans.

If the OP meant for xenos tech to be unworkable by humans, why would he include xenos etch in the question?

Logic, yo. Use it.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Desubot wrote:


Indeed if some how the OP rules that any and all xeno tech can suddenly be used properly by humans.

If the OP meant for xenos tech to be unworkable by humans, why would he include xenos etch in the question?

Logic, yo. Use it.

Logic... in 40k? are you mad?

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Think about it this way, it's like trying to hit a car moving at 60mph with a cruise missile, it's not pinpoint, it's hammering the entire area. Anything will die to that. And if we have the ablty to fire cuise missiles at the battlefield, than why aren't we firing them at the other enemies base.

. An F-35 is going to wreak a lot more havoc then a Riptide,.

You need to read up on an F-35's bomb load (or lack thereof).

A Riptide is capable of firing at aircraft and killing them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
If they can pinpoint multiple cruise missiles on a the very mobile riptide, than they can hit a squad of PAed soldiers.

Considering Knights canonically have killed Riptides, their mobility is being overblown if a lumbering mech can simply walk up and punch it with an over-sized chainsword.

Everyone gets unlucky sometimes... but Riptides kill knights just as easily... ranged weapons are great like that.

At any rate, I'm unaware of an Imperial Knight with high anti-aircraft capabilities.

The Riptide is capable of firing on nonsensical 40K aircraft flying several hundred feet off the ground.

Contrary to what Hollywood or 40K taught you, real aircraft fight at such high altitutdes the Riptide won't even be capable of spotting them. You don't hear or see anything right up till you get a bomb or missile to the face.

... assuming, of course, the Riptide doesn't have a radar array to detect incoming aircraft or bombs.

Oh wait! It does!

Unless you have a quote for its usage or equipment, no, it doesn't. Plus depending on the range of when the missile is fired, be it a jet or a drone, the pilot may not even be physically capable of reacting.

Velocity tracker and EWO.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Velocity tracker and EWO.

Amen.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
From a no-fun real answer point of view, Power Armor. Something that enhances physical ability, sensory ability and immeasurably decreases risk to the actual person, the choice is obvious. And Mass Production makes it sound like everyone gets it. Terminator is a close second, but Power Armor is cheaper, easier to produce, and we all know how world militaries are. A penny saved is worth spending on more studies on how to save more pennies.

This, Power Armor, but not for the reasons most people would assume. It has less to do with force protection and more to do with logistics. If you could get each infantryman to carry 300 lbs on his back, you'd basically mitigate a great deal of the required logistics chain to keep him supplied.

Also, Power Armor would be useful outside of combat as well. Want to load a bunch of trucks quickly? Suit up, Jobnick!

Stealth Suit: "Anything you can do, I can do better. I can do anything better than you~"
Power Armour: "No you can't!"
Stealth Suit: "Yes, I can!"
Power Armour: "No you can't!"
Stealth Suit: "Yes, I can!"
Power Armour: "No you can't!"
Stealth Suit: "Yes, I can, yes I can, yes I ca~n!!!"

Heh.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Because any competent military base probably has missile defenses if there's an enemy boat off shore loaded with missiles and bombarding their location? There isn't even a single damn point to using something as big as a Riptide or Knight, we already have vehicles that can cause that much damage- they're called fighter-bombers. An F-35 is going to wreak a lot more havoc then a Riptide, while also having the advantage of being several thousand feet in the air- at an altitude where things like Drones or missile boats isn't going to be a real threat, and the only thing that can threaten the pilot are SAM batteries and interceptors.

If your competent base has defense against missiles, artillery and bombs, how do you destroy it then? Exactly, by powerfull direct fire weapons that you mount on a ... mobile ground platform. Trying to replace stones with paper, just because paper beats stone is a dumb idea.

Stealth suit for sure! Very good protection, jetpack, potent weapon, stealth and strenght enhancement. Whats not to like? On modern battlefields and missions i can see the human size as another advantage. Knights arent very subtle and todays humanity should be worried about civilian casualities

Well if the military could mass produce one thing it would be Space Marines

 Keep wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Because any competent military base probably has missile defenses if there's an enemy boat off shore loaded with missiles and bombarding their location? There isn't even a single damn point to using something as big as a Riptide or Knight, we already have vehicles that can cause that much damage- they're called fighter-bombers. An F-35 is going to wreak a lot more havoc then a Riptide, while also having the advantage of being several thousand feet in the air- at an altitude where things like Drones or missile boats isn't going to be a real threat, and the only thing that can threaten the pilot are SAM batteries and interceptors.

If your competent base has defense against missiles, artillery and bombs, how do you destroy it then? Exactly, by powerfull direct fire weapons that you mount on a ... mobile ground platform. Trying to replace stones with paper, just because paper beats stone is a dumb idea.

No, you kill it with a combines arms assault. You never just send a single unit or unit type to seize an area from the enemy (not to mention you always need infantry to occupy it), but the Riptide's just going to get destroyed if sent in alone. Although depending on the nation, your military may not even be physically capable of succeeding in the fight even with the advantage of something like Riptides.or power armor. Nevermind that mecha are horribly impractical, and an Eldar skimmer would be far, FAR more useful then a Riptide, and without the absurd profile of a mech.

So how do these missiles not shoot down the F 35? But they can engage something moving around under the radar horizon at several hundred knots with more armor than any tank in the world? Have you seen the 35s internal payload? It's not that impressive compared to a rapid firing nuclear artillery piece that can't run out of ammo. Also 35 is only stealthy against x band in the front arc with a clean fuselage so....

 Wyzilla wrote:
No, you kill it with a combines arms assault. You never just send a single unit or unit type to seize an area from the enemy (not to mention you always need infantry to occupy it), but the Riptide's just going to get destroyed if sent in alone. Although depending on the nation, your military may not even be physically capable of succeeding in the fight even with the advantage of something like Riptides.or power armor. Nevermind that mecha are horribly impractical, and an Eldar skimmer would be far, FAR more useful then a Riptide, and without the absurd profile of a mech.

Havent said they should go alone. But your comparisons (cruise missiles, fighterbombas) wont be an issue either if you send combined arms... Losses are to be expected in war. Just because its not invincible doesnt make it useless.
Mechs (particulary ones that are not clunky titans/dreadnoughts) are much better in urban and closecombat scenarios then tanks. A skimmer would only shine in special cases in urban warfare... bereft of its superior speed there is little use other then floating above rubble which makes it also a nice target...

Why would you say Lasguns, the real military already issues flashlights

Ok, let's get a quick rundown of top 4:

Power armour 26% [ 64 ]

Are we talking about Astartes or normal power armour?
Because the Astartes variant is the most advanced, but it requires the Black Carapace implant to work. The normal is just a suit that carries it's own weight.

Stealth Battlesuits 13% [ 31 ]

Stealth is great, but you can't make anything 100% invisible. It's mainly useful against clay-hut people with no real IR capability.

Riptide Battlesuit 11% [ 27 ]

This thing was made to counter the (small) titan-sized warmachines used by majority of the races. No use in current world. Also, big target is big.

Lasguns 20% [ 49 ]

If you would replace our weapons with lasguns, this would free ALOT stress from logistics, enabling troops to operate with lighter logistical capacity/or relieving capacity for other things. And logistics determine the winner.

Also, NOTE:
The question was what would be the most wanted, not what would make the best basis for further development.

What percentage of our log capability is dedicated to 5.56? Answer: virtually none

After Operation Pocket Money we had an unlimited logistic advantage over the Vietnamese. And last time I checked, Saigon is still called Ho Chi Minh City. So no, logistics don't always determine the victor.

Actually, stealth battle suits are quite interesting. The stealth field bend light around you truing you into a blur in the air, think heat waves. if you are standing right in frony of someone they will probebly know you are there, but in some cover, or in the dark, you will be pretty much undetectable. They also have countermeasures which stop them from being detected by 40k level tech, so thinking that they aren't protected from IR is laughable.

The Military gets a pick from 40k....and it is going to be...something we dont have IMO. Like Space Vessels.
A whole new level of Options.


If we are restricted to the list in the OP,
- new guns, because Logistics
- new armor , because protecting your assets in current asymetric wars
- something shiny, because Humans are not perfect and may choose badly...

IMO, Humans always find a counter to something...

Finlandiaperkele wrote:Ok, let's get a quick rundown of top 4:

Power armour 26% [ 64 ]

Are we talking about Astartes or normal power armour?
Because the Astartes variant is the most advanced, but it requires the Black Carapace implant to work. The normal is just a suit that carries it's own weight.

Stealth Battlesuits 13% [ 31 ]

Stealth is great, but you can't make anything 100% invisible. It's mainly useful against clay-hut people with no real IR capability.

Riptide Battlesuit 11% [ 27 ]

This thing was made to counter the (small) titan-sized warmachines used by majority of the races. No use in current world. Also, big target is big.
[/u]

As I tried to say earlier, albeit rather flippantly, is that there is absolutely no reason to take Imperial Power Armour over a Stealth Suit, because a Stealth Suit is a suit of Power Armour that also turns invisible and flies.

Any advantage the power armour might afford - strength enhancement, power supplies, super composites - also applies to Stealth Suits. Plus, the XV-15 stealth suit is just plain sexier (as far as military kit goes) than any of the Imperial armour marks.

I've said it once I'll say it again - terra forming. What do the rest of the suggestions get you? A more efficient way to kill people. What does terra forming get you? 2 new entire worlds. Take your pick. I know what I would rather have.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Actually, stealth battle suits are quite interesting. The stealth field bend light around you truing you into a blur in the air, think heat waves. if you are standing right in frony of someone they will probebly know you are there, but in some cover, or in the dark, you will be pretty much undetectable. They also have countermeasures which stop them from being detected by 40k level tech, so thinking that they aren't protected from IR is laughable.

Unless it uses warp tech, it can't break thermodynamics, and it won't appear to be invisible on IR. If it exists, it leaves a heat signature. The problem is just how hot the surrounding air is around the suit compared to the environment it's currently in, much like a Polar Bear.

...I think this poll is flawed because you have superior tau and eldar tech compared to inferior imperium of man tech.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Actually, stealth battle suits are quite interesting. The stealth field bend light around you truing you into a blur in the air, think heat waves. if you are standing right in frony of someone they will probebly know you are there, but in some cover, or in the dark, you will be pretty much undetectable. They also have countermeasures which stop them from being detected by 40k level tech, so thinking that they aren't protected from IR is laughable.

Unless it uses warp tech, it can't break thermodynamics, and it won't appear to be invisible on IR. If it exists, it leaves a heat signature. The problem is just how hot the surrounding air is around the suit compared to the environment it's currently in, much like a Polar Bear.

Generating heat is not the same as expelling heat. Simply keeping the heat contained will allow it to not show up. And there could even be temperature gauges that read the ambient temperate and match the outside of the suit to mach.

Also, keep in mind, it's 40k. The laws of physics are broken on a daily manner.

 Filch wrote:
...I think this poll is flawed because you have superior tau and eldar tech compared to inferior imperium of man tech.

And yet the IoM ''inferior'' tech is leading.

Does stealth suit actually offer the same stuff as PA + invisibility, or is it just protection?

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Filch wrote:
...I think this poll is flawed because you have superior tau and eldar tech compared to inferior imperium of man tech.

And yet the IoM ''inferior'' tech is leading.

Does stealth suit actually offer the same stuff as PA + invisibility, or is it just protection?

Its roughly comparable to PA in protection due to being a thicker layer of inferior material.

Thats why Tau suits have 3+ saves, they've basically layered inferior materials to create the same level of protection.

And actually the Tau are still far more primitive than the Imperium. The Imperium just chooses to not equip everyone to a very high level of technology because its expensive and unnecessary. When your biggest resource is literally unlimited manpower you're not going to waste money giving everyone the best possible gear. They could have a significantly smaller military where everyone got PA, combat implants, plasma guns, plasma grenades, melta bombs, and power swords, but that wouldn't be effective at all because they'd lose numbers, which is necessary when you have ~1,000,000 planets to police and defend.

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Filch wrote:
...I think this poll is flawed because you have superior tau and eldar tech compared to inferior imperium of man tech.

And yet the IoM ''inferior'' tech is leading.

Does stealth suit actually offer the same stuff as PA + invisibility, or is it just protection?

It also has a jetpack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Finlandiaperkele wrote:
Ok, let's get a quick rundown of top 4:

Power armour 26% [ 64 ]

Are we talking about Astartes or normal power armour?
Because the Astartes variant is the most advanced, but it requires the Black Carapace implant to work. The normal is just a suit that carries it's own weight.

Stealth Battlesuits 13% [ 31 ]

Stealth is great, but you can't make anything 100% invisible. It's mainly useful against clay-hut people with no real IR capability.

Riptide Battlesuit 11% [ 27 ]

This thing was made to counter the (small) titan-sized warmachines used by majority of the races. No use in current world. Also, big target is big.

Lasguns 20% [ 49 ]

If you would replace our weapons with lasguns, this would free ALOT stress from logistics, enabling troops to operate with lighter logistical capacity/or relieving capacity for other things. And logistics determine the winner.

Also, NOTE:
The question was what would be the most wanted, not what would make the best basis for further development.

I'm guessing the option that would be the most wanted item would be the one that could be air-dropped anywhere on Earth in a few hours and then proceed to devastate tank battalions while shooting down enemy air support... while being immune to small arms fire.

The Riptide.

That power armor is beating stealth suits is a clear indication that about half of our posters would favor Space Marines over anything else no matter how much evidence there is that they're not the right choice.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
I'm guessing the option that would be the most wanted item would be the one that could be air-dropped anywhere on Earth in a few hours and then proceed to devastate tank battalions while shooting down enemy air support... while being immune to small arms fire.

Like anyone is sitting their Armoured Battalions in an open field without any dispersion. COULD be airdropped. With what? C-5? That thing gets intercepted before it gets to target area. That thing is just too big for any reasonable modern-day military use.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
That power armor is beating stealth suits is a clear indication that about half of our posters would favor Space Marines over anything else no matter how much evidence there is that they're not the right choice.

Or the fact that you have no idea about military. Stealth only goes as far when your enemy has no means to detect you (the stealth suit isn't 100% invisible). In a nation-vs-nation war a power armour comes much more handy than a stealth suit. A lasgun even more so.

 Finlandiaperkele wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
I'm guessing the option that would be the most wanted item would be the one that could be air-dropped anywhere on Earth in a few hours and then proceed to devastate tank battalions while shooting down enemy air support... while being immune to small arms fire.

Like anyone is sitting their Armoured Battalions in an open field without any dispersion. COULD be airdropped. With what? C-5? That thing gets intercepted before it gets to target area. That thing is just too big for any reasonable modern-day military use.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
That power armor is beating stealth suits is a clear indication that about half of our posters would favor Space Marines over anything else no matter how much evidence there is that they're not the right choice.

Or the fact that you have no idea about military. Stealth only goes as far when your enemy has no means to detect you (the stealth suit isn't 100% invisible). In a nation-vs-nation war a power armour comes much more handy than a stealth suit. A lasgun even more so.

As I understand it, most tanks are stored in buildings.. a confined space where they are close together. Ideal for the ion accelerator.

Failing that, an open field is the most favorable terrain to tanks, as the Riptide in anything else can jet behind obstacles or- even better- get close enough to simply rip them to pieces with its hands.

My favorite delivery system would be a modified ICBM that can be shot into space and then the Riptide deploys from low orbit.

Space shuttle would work, too... or you could maybe modify a B-2 bomber to carry it.


As has been said, the XV-15 has all of the benefits of power armor, plus its stealth, jetpack, and integrated night vision gear... something 40k power armor pointedly lacks.

Anyone who picked power armor over a stealth suit clearly doesn't know what Tau stealth armor is capable of.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
As I understand it, most tanks are stored in buildings.. a confined space where they are close together. Ideal for the ion accelerator.

Yes, because they are driven from there straight into the battlefield... Also, most militaries store their tanks inside cave systems.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
Failing that, an open field is the most favorable terrain to tanks, as the Riptide in anything else can jet behind obstacles or- even better- get close enough to simply rip them to pieces with its hands.

Thing that size would immediately draw attention of every nation. And that thing is not impervious. You can't just use it recklessly.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
My favorite delivery system would be a modified ICBM that can be shot into space and then the Riptide deploys from low orbit.

That would be the stupidest thing ever. Why? Because that would flare up every launch-tracking centre in the world, ensuing in an immediate counter-attack. ie. This would start a nuclear war.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
Space shuttle would work, too... or you could maybe modify a B-2 bomber to carry it.

After that, a B-2 wouldn't be exactly stealthy... And space shuttle isn't in use anymore, and the launches are pretty damn expensive. Not like you could do them multiple times a day (hell, even in a week).

 EmpNortonII wrote:
As has been said, the XV-15 has all of the benefits of power armor, plus its stealth, jetpack, and integrated night vision gear... something 40k power armor pointedly lacks.

What variant? The varying in Imperial power armours is huge, since you got the Astartes variant in the other end, and externally powered suits for lifting heavy things in the other.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
Anyone who picked power armor over a stealth suit clearly doesn't know what Tau stealth armor is capable of.

Or you have no idea about Imperial variants.

Why is there no AdMech tech in this list? Nuclear radiation rifles FTW!

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Actually, stealth battle suits are quite interesting. The stealth field bend light around you truing you into a blur in the air, think heat waves. if you are standing right in frony of someone they will probebly know you are there, but in some cover, or in the dark, you will be pretty much undetectable. They also have countermeasures which stop them from being detected by 40k level tech, so thinking that they aren't protected from IR is laughable.

Do they even have IR in 40k?

 EmpNortonII wrote:
That power armor is beating stealth suits is a clear indication that about half of our posters would favor Space Marines over anything else no matter how much evidence there is that they're not the right choice.

No, but this comment is clear indication that you would pick anything related to Tau even when it is a pretty bad choice. The stealth suit is not the best choice. Especially not when one considers that its design would make it impossible to actually hold weapons, toss grenades, go to the toilet or whatever action that requires two hands.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Filch wrote:
...I think this poll is flawed because you have superior tau and eldar tech compared to inferior imperium of man tech.

And yet the IoM ''inferior'' tech is leading.

Does stealth suit actually offer the same stuff as PA + invisibility, or is it just protection?

Its roughly comparable to PA in protection due to being a thicker layer of inferior material.

Thats why Tau suits have 3+ saves, they've basically layered inferior materials to create the same level of protection.

And actually the Tau are still far more primitive than the Imperium. The Imperium just chooses to not equip everyone to a very high level of technology because its expensive and unnecessary. When your biggest resource is literally unlimited manpower you're not going to waste money giving everyone the best possible gear. They could have a significantly smaller military where everyone got PA, combat implants, plasma guns, plasma grenades, melta bombs, and power swords, but that wouldn't be effective at all because they'd lose numbers, which is necessary when you have ~1,000,000 planets to police and defend.

Actually, the material the tau use, is lighter and stronger than ceramitite.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Why is there no AdMech tech in this list? Nuclear radiation rifles FTW!

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Actually, stealth battle suits are quite interesting. The stealth field bend light around you truing you into a blur in the air, think heat waves. if you are standing right in frony of someone they will probebly know you are there, but in some cover, or in the dark, you will be pretty much undetectable. They also have countermeasures which stop them from being detected by 40k level tech, so thinking that they aren't protected from IR is laughable.

Do they even have IR in 40k?

I think so? We know the tech exists (you can get IR goggles in the 40k RPGS), but I'm not sure if any armies use them. If the IG doesn't, I can't only assume that at least the SMs do. Otherwise, that's just kind of sad.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

Actually, the material the tau use, is lighter and stronger than ceramitite.

Clearly that is just in-universe Tau Codex propaganda. It's obviously designed for morale purposes - I mean, it'd very much be in their interests to make their armour seem superior to that of the Emperor's elite!

After all, the Stealth Suit is visually obviously carrying way thicker armour, for the same protection result.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

I think so? We know the tech exists (you can get IR goggles in the 40k RPGS), but I'm not sure if any armies use them. If the IG doesn't, I can't only assume that at least the SMs do. Otherwise, that's just kind of sad.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Filch wrote:
...I think this poll is flawed because you have superior tau and eldar tech compared to inferior imperium of man tech.

And yet the IoM ''inferior'' tech is leading.

Does stealth suit actually offer the same stuff as PA + invisibility, or is it just protection?

Its roughly comparable to PA in protection due to being a thicker layer of inferior material.

Thats why Tau suits have 3+ saves, they've basically layered inferior materials to create the same level of protection.

And actually the Tau are still far more primitive than the Imperium. The Imperium just chooses to not equip everyone to a very high level of technology because its expensive and unnecessary. When your biggest resource is literally unlimited manpower you're not going to waste money giving everyone the best possible gear. They could have a significantly smaller military where everyone got PA, combat implants, plasma guns, plasma grenades, melta bombs, and power swords, but that wouldn't be effective at all because they'd lose numbers, which is necessary when you have ~1,000,000 planets to police and defend.

Actually, the material the tau use, is lighter and stronger than ceramitite.

The evidence doesn't support that.

All tau suits are far far more bulky than power armor, yet they only provide the same level of protection. It is definitely lighter, or they wouldn't also be jump suits, although Assault Marines still exist too and they are just as fast as Tau suits while also being smaller.

This clearly shows at the very least it is no stronger than Ceramite. Its probably lighter, but definitely not stronger. You have to pile layers and layers of it on till you have a monstrosity the size of the Riptide till you get a 2+ save. To get a 2+ save on a battlesuit they have to completely change material(Irridium armor)

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Filch wrote:
...I think this poll is flawed because you have superior tau and eldar tech compared to inferior imperium of man tech.

And yet the IoM ''inferior'' tech is leading.

Does stealth suit actually offer the same stuff as PA + invisibility, or is it just protection?

Its roughly comparable to PA in protection due to being a thicker layer of inferior material.

Thats why Tau suits have 3+ saves, they've basically layered inferior materials to create the same level of protection.

And actually the Tau are still far more primitive than the Imperium. The Imperium just chooses to not equip everyone to a very high level of technology because its expensive and unnecessary. When your biggest resource is literally unlimited manpower you're not going to waste money giving everyone the best possible gear. They could have a significantly smaller military where everyone got PA, combat implants, plasma guns, plasma grenades, melta bombs, and power swords, but that wouldn't be effective at all because they'd lose numbers, which is necessary when you have ~1,000,000 planets to police and defend.

Actually, the material the tau use, is lighter and stronger than ceramitite.

The evidence doesn't support that.

All tau suits are far far more bulky than power armor, yet they only provide the same level of protection. It is definitely lighter, or they wouldn't also be jump suits, although Assault Marines still exist too and they are just as fast as Tau suits while also being smaller.

This clearly shows at the very least it is no stronger than Ceramite. Its probably lighter, but definitely not stronger. You have to pile layers and layers of it on till you have a monstrosity the size of the Riptide till you get a 2+ save. To get a 2+ save on a battlesuit they have to completely change material(Irridium armor)

I think I'm going to take what's stated over looking at visual design and game mechanics.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Filch wrote:
...I think this poll is flawed because you have superior tau and eldar tech compared to inferior imperium of man tech.

And yet the IoM ''inferior'' tech is leading.

Does stealth suit actually offer the same stuff as PA + invisibility, or is it just protection?

Its roughly comparable to PA in protection due to being a thicker layer of inferior material.

Thats why Tau suits have 3+ saves, they've basically layered inferior materials to create the same level of protection.

And actually the Tau are still far more primitive than the Imperium. The Imperium just chooses to not equip everyone to a very high level of technology because its expensive and unnecessary. When your biggest resource is literally unlimited manpower you're not going to waste money giving everyone the best possible gear. They could have a significantly smaller military where everyone got PA, combat implants, plasma guns, plasma grenades, melta bombs, and power swords, but that wouldn't be effective at all because they'd lose numbers, which is necessary when you have ~1,000,000 planets to police and defend.

Actually, the material the tau use, is lighter and stronger than ceramitite.

The evidence doesn't support that.

All tau suits are far far more bulky than power armor, yet they only provide the same level of protection. It is definitely lighter, or they wouldn't also be jump suits, although Assault Marines still exist too and they are just as fast as Tau suits while also being smaller.

This clearly shows at the very least it is no stronger than Ceramite. Its probably lighter, but definitely not stronger. You have to pile layers and layers of it on till you have a monstrosity the size of the Riptide till you get a 2+ save. To get a 2+ save on a battlesuit they have to completely change material(Irridium armor)

I think I'm going to take what's stated over looking at visual design and game mechanics.

You can't take whats stated in the fluff as being true, its not impartial. Its true game mechanics aren't the best metric, but in this case it is comparing apples to apples. And visual comparison is always the most valid(IE: What do we observe happening)

The basic XV8 is 3 times the mass of a suit of power armor. It has the same rough resistance to damage as power armor. Thus because its larger we must infer that the material is inferior(by how much is unknown) in terms of strength. It is almost certainly lighter because they can get the effect of being jet infantry without as bulky thrusters(relative to the size of the suit)

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

I think so? We know the tech exists (you can get IR goggles in the 40k RPGS), but I'm not sure if any armies use them. If the IG doesn't, I can't only assume that at least the SMs do. Otherwise, that's just kind of sad.

Scions do

Guard uses them. Not all regiments however, but most. Mainly those expected to operate during night-time.

 Grey Templar wrote:


You can't take whats stated in the fluff as being true, its not impartial. Its true game mechanics aren't the best metric, but in this case it is comparing apples to apples. And visual comparison is always the most valid(IE: What do we observe happening)

The basic XV8 is 3 times the mass of a suit of power armor. It has the same rough resistance to damage as power armor. Thus because its larger we must infer that the material is inferior(by how much is unknown) in terms of strength. It is almost certainly lighter because they can get the effect of being jet infantry without as bulky thrusters(relative to the size of the suit)

... or we could assume that the jetpack and extra servos to carry as many heavy weapons as a tac squad actually takes up some of the Crisis suit's mass.

Stealth suit also has to fit a jetpack in it.

2 wounds do not equal 1 wound. A Crisis suit and its pilot can take more damage than a SM in power armor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

I think so? We know the tech exists (you can get IR goggles in the 40k RPGS), but I'm not sure if any armies use them. If the IG doesn't, I can't only assume that at least the SMs do. Otherwise, that's just kind of sad.

 Grey Templar wrote:


You can't take whats stated in the fluff as being true, its not impartial. Its true game mechanics aren't the best metric, but in this case it is comparing apples to apples. And visual comparison is always the most valid(IE: What do we observe happening)

The basic XV8 is 3 times the mass of a suit of power armor. It has the same rough resistance to damage as power armor. Thus because its larger we must infer that the material is inferior(by how much is unknown) in terms of strength. It is almost certainly lighter because they can get the effect of being jet infantry without as bulky thrusters(relative to the size of the suit)

You realize the game models are extremely out of scale. Tau are supposed to be shorter than humans (something like 5'6" compared to 6') and SMs are supposed to be 7-8 feet tall. Not only that, there is no evedance that the XV25's "hood" is all armour, more likely it is power, communications, and stealth devices. If you want a good comparison, the older model XV15s have the same armour, but are barely bigger than tau in combat armour.

EDIT: Although the stuff is not necessarily tougher. I'm not sure where that particualr fluff comes from (I'm just echoing someone else in that), but the fluff that says it's lighter compares it to ceramitete but lighter, so that part is in conflict.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
That power armor is beating stealth suits is a clear indication that about half of our posters would favor Space Marines over anything else no matter how much evidence there is that they're not the right choice.

No, but this comment is clear indication that you would pick anything related to Tau even when it is a pretty bad choice. The stealth suit is not the best choice. Especially not when one considers that its design would make it impossible to actually hold weapons, toss grenades, go to the toilet or whatever action that requires two hands.

As stated, I picked the Riptide. Yes, the stealth suit is not the best choice. it is, however, superior to power armor in every way imaginable.

On the other hand, the Stealth suit is capable of manipulating fine objects.. and did you seriously suggest that power armor is better than a stealth suit because you can gak in power armor? Really? Do you realize how you sound?

 EmpNortonII wrote:

No Night Vision USR=no night vision. Space Marines do NOT, in fact, get such gear.

Tau pulse rifles are weaker than lasgun, despite all fluff saying otherwise, why? I said so.

 Finlandiaperkele wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
Space shuttle would work, too... or you could maybe modify a B-2 bomber to carry it.

After that, a B-2 wouldn't be exactly stealthy

You could fit a Riptide inside of a B-2 and drop it from the air. I've seen a B-2. It's big enough.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bobthehero wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

No Night Vision USR=no night vision. Space Marines do NOT, in fact, get such gear.

Tau pulse rifles are weaker than lasgun, despite all fluff saying otherwise, why? I said so.

Actually, GW's rules say so. It's wishful thinking and bad writing that say otherwise.

No. I said so, I am right, Tau tech blows. IoM rules. Feth yeah

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
That power armor is beating stealth suits is a clear indication that about half of our posters would favor Space Marines over anything else no matter how much evidence there is that they're not the right choice.

No, but this comment is clear indication that you would pick anything related to Tau even when it is a pretty bad choice. The stealth suit is not the best choice. Especially not when one considers that its design would make it impossible to actually hold weapons, toss grenades, go to the toilet or whatever action that requires two hands.

As stated, I picked the Riptide. Yes, the stealth suit is not the best choice. it is, however, superior to power armor in every way imaginable.

On the other hand, the Stealth suit is capable of manipulating fine objects.. and did you seriously suggest that power armor is better than a stealth suit because you can gak in power armor? Really? Do you realize how you sound?

Tau stealth suits have their weapons integrated into their suits. Please explain to me how one is realistically going to toss a modern grenade or hold an assault rifle when one of the arms on your suit is designed to have a huge gun attached to it?
And yes, while not by far the most important, being able to take a dump without leaving your post is quite handy.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
That power armor is beating stealth suits is a clear indication that about half of our posters would favor Space Marines over anything else no matter how much evidence there is that they're not the right choice.

No, but this comment is clear indication that you would pick anything related to Tau even when it is a pretty bad choice. The stealth suit is not the best choice. Especially not when one considers that its design would make it impossible to actually hold weapons, toss grenades, go to the toilet or whatever action that requires two hands.

As stated, I picked the Riptide. Yes, the stealth suit is not the best choice. it is, however, superior to power armor in every way imaginable.

On the other hand, the Stealth suit is capable of manipulating fine objects.. and did you seriously suggest that power armor is better than a stealth suit because you can gak in power armor? Really? Do you realize how you sound?

Tau stealth suits have their weapons integrated into their suits. Please explain to me how one is realistically going to toss a modern grenade or hold an assault rifle when one of the arms on your suit is designed to have a huge gun attached to it?
And yes, while not by far the most important, being able to take a dump without leaving your post is quite handy.

No, they don't. Look at the model. The weapon is underslug to one arm. It can be detached.

At any rate, I'm pretty sure a one-handed grenade wouldn't be hard to produce.

Or- gasp!- you could simply fit the thing's other arm with a grenade launcher.


... so, what do you think Tau do in their stealth suits? Just hold it for a really long time?

Tau are short lived...because of it.
When they can't hold it anymore ...BooM !

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
That power armor is beating stealth suits is a clear indication that about half of our posters would favor Space Marines over anything else no matter how much evidence there is that they're not the right choice.

No, but this comment is clear indication that you would pick anything related to Tau even when it is a pretty bad choice. The stealth suit is not the best choice. Especially not when one considers that its design would make it impossible to actually hold weapons, toss grenades, go to the toilet or whatever action that requires two hands.

As stated, I picked the Riptide. Yes, the stealth suit is not the best choice. it is, however, superior to power armor in every way imaginable.
On the other hand, the Stealth suit is capable of manipulating fine objects.. and did you seriously suggest that power armor is better than a stealth suit because you can gak in power armor? Really? Do you realize how you sound?

Tau stealth suits have their weapons integrated into their suits. Please explain to me how one is realistically going to toss a modern grenade or hold an assault rifle when one of the arms on your suit is designed to have a huge gun attached to it?
And yes, while not by far the most important, being able to take a dump without leaving your post is quite handy.

No, they don't. Look at the model. The weapon is underslug to one arm. It can be detached.
At any rate, I'm pretty sure a one-handed grenade wouldn't be hard to produce.
Or- gasp!- you could simply fit the thing's other arm with a grenade launcher.

... so, what do you think Tau do in their stealth suits? Just hold it for a really long time?

Just a quick question here. Could a human even use a Tau suit? Their physiology is different, so there is no indication that a human could pilot a suit in the first place.

Power Armour hands down, only thing that seems to beat it is plasma and i dont see plasma weapons being invented any time soon

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Filch wrote:
...I think this poll is flawed because you have superior tau and eldar tech compared to inferior imperium of man tech.

And yet the IoM ''inferior'' tech is leading.

Does stealth suit actually offer the same stuff as PA + invisibility, or is it just protection?

Its roughly comparable to PA in protection due to being a thicker layer of inferior material.

Thats why Tau suits have 3+ saves, they've basically layered inferior materials to create the same level of protection.

And actually the Tau are still far more primitive than the Imperium. The Imperium just chooses to not equip everyone to a very high level of technology because its expensive and unnecessary. When your biggest resource is literally unlimited manpower you're not going to waste money giving everyone the best possible gear. They could have a significantly smaller military where everyone got PA, combat implants, plasma guns, plasma grenades, melta bombs, and power swords, but that wouldn't be effective at all because they'd lose numbers, which is necessary when you have ~1,000,000 planets to police and defend.

Actually, the material the tau use, is lighter and stronger than ceramitite.

The evidence doesn't support that.

All tau suits are far far more bulky than power armor, yet they only provide the same level of protection. It is definitely lighter, or they wouldn't also be jump suits, although Assault Marines still exist too and they are just as fast as Tau suits while also being smaller.

This clearly shows at the very least it is no stronger than Ceramite. Its probably lighter, but definitely not stronger. You have to pile layers and layers of it on till you have a monstrosity the size of the Riptide till you get a 2+ save. To get a 2+ save on a battlesuit they have to completely change material(Irridium armor)

XV8 Crisis fluff says that the armormaterial is comparable to ceramite but much lighter. You have a 2+ on broadsides too, even the old ones that were the size of crisis. No need for iridium. XV15 stealth suits arent bulky, those are the new XV25, but as already stated that space prob holds sensors and stealth. Fluff also states that they not only bend light but also reduce noise and have heatsonsors. They also give you +1S in game! Crisis even +2S +1T and +1W! Power Armor enhances your strenght too, but in game doesnt give you a whole +1. Sorry guys, but the Astartes is what makes PA so awesome, and not the other way around. You can deepstrike with those suits and the XV15/25 fit in choppers and regular planes. You can outmanouver groundtargets easily with you jumppack. You have basically a machinegun at your arm, or just swap it with a tankblasting fusiongun. The advantages just never end.

Hm, does Tau Power Armor even have all the sub-systems that Astartes do? Because having to store food, medical systems, etc would indeed bulk it up.

aronthomas17 wrote:
Power Armour hands down, only thing that seems to beat it is plasma and i dont see plasma weapons being invented any time soon

Various Ion weapons, Artillery shells, and enough dakka.

Realistically power armor and im assuming the sisters (can you imagine your front line marines where that? ) or Inquisitor armor and even space marine PA still has non protected areas like the under arms and under leg sections. and IIRC the picture of the inquisitor version is even less protected.

Not saying its bad though.

Still think the las tech would be best. from an overall military logistical and realistically build able cost perspective.










Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Hm, does Tau Power Armor even have all the sub-systems that Astartes do? Because having to store food, medical systems, etc would indeed bulk it up.

They are too busy hitting running and dieing to think of that.

But they do have the capacity for medical systems considering the stim injection systems

Lasguns, as the rest would bankrupt us.

 Melissia wrote:
Lasguns, as the rest would bankrupt us.

...Don't you have like 18 trillions of USD in national debt already?

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Lasguns, as the rest would bankrupt us.

...Don't you have like 18 trillions of USD in national debt already?

Its about: THE military
Could be Sweden. To protect them from bears.

Or ours, getting rid of complaints about the G36 => lasguns.

 1hadhq wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Lasguns, as the rest would bankrupt us.

...Don't you have like 18 trillions of USD in national debt already?

Its about: THE military
Could be Sweden. To protect them from bears.

Or ours, getting rid of complaints about the G36 => lasguns.

Well you could use some Mantas to nail down that Fourth Reich you've built up.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
That power armor is beating stealth suits is a clear indication that about half of our posters would favor Space Marines over anything else no matter how much evidence there is that they're not the right choice.

No, but this comment is clear indication that you would pick anything related to Tau even when it is a pretty bad choice. The stealth suit is not the best choice. Especially not when one considers that its design would make it impossible to actually hold weapons, toss grenades, go to the toilet or whatever action that requires two hands.

As stated, I picked the Riptide. Yes, the stealth suit is not the best choice. it is, however, superior to power armor in every way imaginable.

On the other hand, the Stealth suit is capable of manipulating fine objects.. and did you seriously suggest that power armor is better than a stealth suit because you can gak in power armor? Really? Do you realize how you sound?

Tau stealth suits have their weapons integrated into their suits. Please explain to me how one is realistically going to toss a modern grenade or hold an assault rifle when one of the arms on your suit is designed to have a huge gun attached to it?
And yes, while not by far the most important, being able to take a dump without leaving your post is quite handy.

No, they don't. Look at the model. The weapon is underslug to one arm. It can be detached.

At any rate, I'm pretty sure a one-handed grenade wouldn't be hard to produce.

Or- gasp!- you could simply fit the thing's other arm with a grenade launcher.


... so, what do you think Tau do in their stealth suits? Just hold it for a really long time?

When you compare both hands on the model, you clearly see that the right arm is just a solid hardpoint for mounting the gun. You will have a hard time manipulating any objects with it. And if we have to modify the suit before we can use it, we'd be better of with power armour.
Also, look at the feet of those stealth suits. It would be like stilt walking for human soldiers.

No, the technology the military really needs is Dark Eldar splinter rifles. No enemy would dare to fight them ever again because of the sheer terror value of those weapons.

Would anyone like me to add more options to the poll? (please tell me these.)

Does nobody else think Genetically modified Super soldiers? Yes they wont be equipped with Power Armour or Bolters but I reckon a Space Marine could shatter a skull with a single punch.
Plus it would bring me one step closer to becoming a Space Marine.

TheOrangeHiveMind wrote:
Does nobody else think Genetically modified Super soldiers? Yes they wont be equipped with Power Armour or Bolters but I reckon a Space Marine could shatter a skull with a single punch.
Plus it would bring me one step closer to becoming a Space Marine.

Quoting despite being right after you just to agree. Seeing as militaries have attempted to create super soldiers in the past...

It just wasn't on the poll. I think I'd still go with Power Armor, though, because making any man or woman capable of single-handedly turning the tide of war I feel would supercede the need to create that single man/woman in the first place.

Do you make a gun that always hits its mark even when fired by a guy with Parkinson's, or do you create the soldier with pinpoint accuracy? I think they'd go with the war gear if possible.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:


You can't take whats stated in the fluff as being true, its not impartial. Its true game mechanics aren't the best metric, but in this case it is comparing apples to apples. And visual comparison is always the most valid(IE: What do we observe happening)

The basic XV8 is 3 times the mass of a suit of power armor. It has the same rough resistance to damage as power armor. Thus because its larger we must infer that the material is inferior(by how much is unknown) in terms of strength. It is almost certainly lighter because they can get the effect of being jet infantry without as bulky thrusters(relative to the size of the suit)

... or we could assume that the jetpack and extra servos to carry as many heavy weapons as a tac squad actually takes up some of the Crisis suit's mass.

Stealth suit also has to fit a jetpack in it.

2 wounds do not equal 1 wound. A Crisis suit and its pilot can take more damage than a SM in power armor.

Of course it takes up some of the mass, but its still devoting a good chunk to the armor. And actually the scale issue makes the suit larger relative to the marine. Tau suits are actually quite large.

No Night Vision USR=no night vision. Space Marines do NOT, in fact, get such gear.

Actually they do.

Astartes Power Armor(Deathwatch RPG pg 161):

"Auto-senses: The Space Marine gains the Dark Sight trait and Heightened Senses(+10 to relevant tests) for sight and sound."

Dark Sight lets you fight in total darkness without penalty. Its not enough to give basic space marines on the TT the Acute Senses or the Night Vision rule, but they do in fact have night vision equipment.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:


You can't take whats stated in the fluff as being true, its not impartial. Its true game mechanics aren't the best metric, but in this case it is comparing apples to apples. And visual comparison is always the most valid(IE: What do we observe happening)

The basic XV8 is 3 times the mass of a suit of power armor. It has the same rough resistance to damage as power armor. Thus because its larger we must infer that the material is inferior(by how much is unknown) in terms of strength. It is almost certainly lighter because they can get the effect of being jet infantry without as bulky thrusters(relative to the size of the suit)

... or we could assume that the jetpack and extra servos to carry as many heavy weapons as a tac squad actually takes up some of the Crisis suit's mass.

Stealth suit also has to fit a jetpack in it.

2 wounds do not equal 1 wound. A Crisis suit and its pilot can take more damage than a SM in power armor.

Of course it takes up some of the mass, but its still devoting a good chunk to the armor. And actually the scale issue makes the suit larger relative to the marine. Tau suits are actually quite large.

Crisis suits are bigger than SMs, but that's because they are not actually armour, but a mini-mech. XV25s however aren't much bigger than your normal FW, and XV15s are effectively PA with a jetpack and stealth tech strapped on.

Making super soldiers brings in the complication that it means investing resources on people rather than equipment. Unlike equipment, people can decide they don't want to be in the army anymore.

Agreed, Raxmei. Equipment can be transferred from person to person, making it a big advantage.

For all those people who say power armor-- I think equipping ten thousand soldiers with lasguns and ammo is more important than equipping one soldier with power armor and no weapon

 Melissia wrote:
Agreed, Raxmei. Equipment can be transferred from person to person, making it a big advantage.

For all those people who say power armor-- I think equipping ten thousand soldiers with lasguns and ammo is more important than equipping one soldier with power armor and no weapon

Just give him one of the assault rifles we have lying around I guess? Ten thousand soldiers with power armour and AK-74s would easily beat ten thousand soldiers with a lasgun and contemporary armour. The lasgun is only a marginal upgrade in killing power to what we already have (and maybe even less, can a lasgun pierce walls like an AK?) and rifle munitions are only a tiny part of a supply line that has to be set up anyways. I fail to see any advantage offered by a lasgun. It is a great gun for 40k's IG, but much less so for a 21st century army.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Agreed, Raxmei. Equipment can be transferred from person to person, making it a big advantage.

For all those people who say power armor-- I think equipping ten thousand soldiers with lasguns and ammo is more important than equipping one soldier with power armor and no weapon

Just give him one of the assault rifles we have lying around I guess? Ten thousand soldiers with power armour and AK-74s would easily beat ten thousand soldiers with a lasgun and contemporary armour. The lasgun is only a marginal upgrade in killing power to what we already have (and maybe even less, can a lasgun pierce walls like an AK?) and rifle munitions are only a tiny part of a supply line that has to be set up anyways. I fail to see any advantage offered by a lasgun. It is a great gun for 40k's IG, but much less so for a 21st century army.

Lasguns blow off limbs or completely blow up arms, can punch through concrete without much hassle, and their ammunition can be used as extremely potent IED's.

An off-the-wall one: Refractor fields. Replace forty pounds of body armor with a device the size of a bulky necklace. It doesn't protect as well as power armor but has a lower profile and is more convenient.

Conversion fields do more or less the same thing. I suggested refractor fields rather than the more powerful conversion field because conversion fields give away your position when hit.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Agreed, Raxmei. Equipment can be transferred from person to person, making it a big advantage.

For all those people who say power armor-- I think equipping ten thousand soldiers with lasguns and ammo is more important than equipping one soldier with power armor and no weapon

Just give him one of the assault rifles we have lying around I guess? Ten thousand soldiers with power armour and AK-74s would easily beat ten thousand soldiers with a lasgun and contemporary armour. The lasgun is only a marginal upgrade in killing power to what we already have (and maybe even less, can a lasgun pierce walls like an AK?) and rifle munitions are only a tiny part of a supply line that has to be set up anyways. I fail to see any advantage offered by a lasgun. It is a great gun for 40k's IG, but much less so for a 21st century army.

Lasguns blow off limbs or completely blow up arms, can punch through concrete without much hassle, and their ammunition can be used as extremely potent IED's.

And how is that so much better than an AK? It's killing power is not much less than a lasgun and already is all we need for a rifle, it can punch through concrete, and using lasgun ammunition for IED's leaves you unable to shoot. Better to use other stuff for IED's.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Agreed, Raxmei. Equipment can be transferred from person to person, making it a big advantage.

For all those people who say power armor-- I think equipping ten thousand soldiers with lasguns and ammo is more important than equipping one soldier with power armor and no weapon

Just give him one of the assault rifles we have lying around I guess? Ten thousand soldiers with power armour and AK-74s would easily beat ten thousand soldiers with a lasgun and contemporary armour. The lasgun is only a marginal upgrade in killing power to what we already have (and maybe even less, can a lasgun pierce walls like an AK?) and rifle munitions are only a tiny part of a supply line that has to be set up anyways. I fail to see any advantage offered by a lasgun. It is a great gun for 40k's IG, but much less so for a 21st century army.

Lasguns blow off limbs or completely blow up arms, can punch through concrete without much hassle, and their ammunition can be used as extremely potent IED's.

And how is that so much better than an AK? It's killing power is not much less than a lasgun and already is all we need for a rifle, it can punch through concrete, and using lasgun ammunition for IED's leaves you unable to shoot. Better to use other stuff for IED's.

Pretty sure if I remember correctly that overcharged lasgun magazines detonate with the force of something far greater then your typical IED. More like a grenade that can blow up a tank's flank armor.

And no, 7.62 and various other rounds of that mm do not blow off limbs. They overpenetrate and create lots of shock, but you can survive them. Lasguns vaporize your organs, shred, blow off, or explode limbs by boiling them, rip people to shreds, suffer from no inaccuracy issues due to gravity, have extremely good range, have a large magazine capacity per shot, can be set to damage APC's, and eliminates a great deal of ammunition logistics. It is absurdly better then an AK-47, especially when it requires some pretty damn good armor to actually protect against.

If you go for lasguns, I don't see why you don't go for pulse rifles instead. Much greater power and range, also powered by energy, and with a 50 shot battery pack, you will only never need a few with you to be set.

 Finlandiaperkele wrote:


]Just a quick question here. Could a human even use a Tau suit? Their physiology is different, so there is no indication that a human could pilot a suit in the first place.

Ask the OP why he included options people can't use.

It sounds like you're just a troll trying to find any excuse, no matter how ridiculous, to say the IoM rules.

Did you ask yourself why the OP would include such options? No, you didn't, because thinking probably isn't your strongest point.

More ammo per pack, recharable power packs, can be used to blow up heavier armor than pulse shots, easier to take care of, much small and less cumbersome, lasgun already kill you dead enough.

 Bobthehero wrote:
More ammo per pack, recharable power packs, can be used to blow up heavier armor than pulse shots, easier to take care of, much small and less cumbersome, lasgun already kill you dead enough.

Pulse rifles can kill IFVs and APCs.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Agreed, Raxmei. Equipment can be transferred from person to person, making it a big advantage.

For all those people who say power armor-- I think equipping ten thousand soldiers with lasguns and ammo is more important than equipping one soldier with power armor and no weapon

Just give him one of the assault rifles we have lying around I guess? Ten thousand soldiers with power armour and AK-74s would easily beat ten thousand soldiers with a lasgun and contemporary armour. The lasgun is only a marginal upgrade in killing power to what we already have (and maybe even less, can a lasgun pierce walls like an AK?) and rifle munitions are only a tiny part of a supply line that has to be set up anyways. I fail to see any advantage offered by a lasgun. It is a great gun for 40k's IG, but much less so for a 21st century army.

Lasguns blow off limbs or completely blow up arms, can punch through concrete without much hassle, and their ammunition can be used as extremely potent IED's.

And how is that so much better than an AK? It's killing power is not much less than a lasgun and already is all we need for a rifle, it can punch through concrete, and using lasgun ammunition for IED's leaves you unable to shoot. Better to use other stuff for IED's.

Its always nice to have the option. But the biggest advantage is the relief its puts on your logistics. Instead of needing to provide a steady supply of ammo, you instead just need some electrical generators. You also get more shots per pack.

So instead of a soldier having 5-6 magazines of 30 rounds each he has 5-6 magazines with 200 rounds each. Far more shots, plus the packs can be recharged quickly in the field. That's in the extreme cases where you actually would run out of ammunition, which are going to be less common because you can actually carry more.

AKs are great, but whats better than an AK? A gun that has all the same advantages, but also has even easier access to ammunition.

The modern military is obsessed with limiting casualties on the ground. Power armor basically turns a trooper into a walking tank... thus limiting the need for those vehicles. and for modern wars would be very useful for protecting troops going into conflicted areas, assuming it is 40k style power armor, it would be extremely hard for any modern army to counter.

Thing is in our world we already have overwhelming firepower in the air and we have weaponry that's as deadly as it needs to be... at the moment we don't need cheaper armies that waste human lives we need to protect our troops. But I may be thinking from a western perspective....

 Grey Templar wrote:

Its always nice to have the option. But the biggest advantage is the relief its puts on your logistics. Instead of needing to provide a steady supply of ammo, you instead just need some electrical generators. You also get more shots per pack.

So instead of a soldier having 5-6 magazines of 30 rounds each he has 5-6 magazines with 200 rounds each. Far more shots, plus the packs can be recharged quickly in the field. That's in the extreme cases where you actually would run out of ammunition, which are going to be less common because you can actually carry more.

AKs are great, but whats better than an AK? A gun that has all the same advantages, but also has even easier access to ammunition.

200? Most things I have read seem to put them in the 70-80 range.

While limiting casualties is definitely a good thing, I think we are a little too obsessed over that. Its war, people are gonna die. So we need to consider everything from a practical perspective.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

Its always nice to have the option. But the biggest advantage is the relief its puts on your logistics. Instead of needing to provide a steady supply of ammo, you instead just need some electrical generators. You also get more shots per pack.

So instead of a soldier having 5-6 magazines of 30 rounds each he has 5-6 magazines with 200 rounds each. Far more shots, plus the packs can be recharged quickly in the field. That's in the extreme cases where you actually would run out of ammunition, which are going to be less common because you can actually carry more.

AKs are great, but whats better than an AK? A gun that has all the same advantages, but also has even easier access to ammunition.

200? Most things I have read seem to put them in the 70-80 range.

It depends on how you adjust the power level, but 200 is in the possible range.

My heart says Titans, my head says lasguns.

However I would ditch anything and everything on the list in return for warp capable transports with properly working engines and Gellar fields.

FTL > all other technology, only the discovery of fire comes close in importance.

Stealth Suits. While fluffiwise, they're not as tough as power armour, crunchwise, they are. They would still be impervious to nearly all small arms fire and would be excellent for black ops and infiltration. I'd imagine the burst cannons would be pretty useful as well.

I think a lot of technology in 40k wouldent on it's own be revolutiony.
The lasgun or equivalent would change military logistics, not eliminate them.
You would still need power generaition, which is often loud or slow, and a fire isn't allways a option.
And units would need replacements due to use and unforceing circumstances, instead of planing for getting ammo to all units. You may end up with effectively random need for replacements,

I think something like the wave serpent or falcon grav tank (short of starships capable of firing on a planet) would make the bigist difernce.
You can drop both from high altetude, they are very fast over any sufvice and could provide support including charging lasguns
Both come with the eldar fields of varying types to keep them safe, and both are capable of flight in the lore.
So I think if the military could begin mass production that would find a place in the military's.
Off corse if you could have stealth tech on your soldurs jumping out, then that's much better

Apple fox wrote:
I think a lot of technology in 40k wouldent on it's own be revolutiony.
The lasgun or equivalent would change military logistics, not eliminate them.
You would still need power generaition, which is often loud or slow, and a fire isn't allways a option.
And units would need replacements due to use and unforceing circumstances, instead of planing for getting ammo to all units. You may end up with effectively random need for replacements,

I think something like the wave serpent or falcon grav tank (short of starships capable of firing on a planet) would make the bigist difernce.
You can drop both from high altetude, they are very fast over any sufvice and could provide support including charging lasguns
Both come with the eldar fields of varying types to keep them safe, and both are capable of flight in the lore.
So I think if the military could begin mass production that would find a place in the military's.
Off corse if you could have stealth tech on your soldurs jumping out, then that's much better

I don't think anyone was suggesting that it would 100% elimiate the need for logistics. as food water and other gear is still a thing.
And it would be the same thing with power armor, stealth suits or pulse equipment

I guess the wraith bone teck if we could ever get it working would be cool . and i like the idea of refractor shields or shield generators too.

Iron_Captain wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
That power armor is beating stealth suits is a clear indication that about half of our posters would favor Space Marines over anything else no matter how much evidence there is that they're not the right choice.

No, but this comment is clear indication that you would pick anything related to Tau even when it is a pretty bad choice. The stealth suit is not the best choice. Especially not when one considers that its design would make it impossible to actually hold weapons, toss grenades, go to the toilet or whatever action that requires two hands.

Best choice or no, Stealth Suits are better than Power Armour. The poll assumes corrected usability for humans otherwise non-human tech wouldn't be on there, as it would be inherently worthless.

I would just like to make a note here: I'm not a Tau fangirl. I play Sisters, for the Emperor's sake.

In any case;



They're about the same size. The Stealth Suit gives equal protection and superior boosts to the wearer - the Marine's power armour carries its own weight, but the Tau power armour boosts its' wearers strength and toughness.

Tau power armour also comes with free controlled-liquid-metal technology which has all kinds of uses off the battlefield (Codex: Tau Empire 2013 page 70)

Both have neural interfaces (I assume I don't need to provide a reference for the Black Carapace, but the Tau neural interface is mentioned in Thorpe's Kill Team and Spurrier's Fire Warrior) that provide tactile feedback from the suit's exterior. The Tau one doesn't rely on invasive surgery, however.

The stealth suit's "use light-bending technology [...] to camouflage themselves. Additional cloaking fields deaden sound and shield them from heat-detecting sensors," (Codex: Tau Empire 2013 page 43).

It's not noted that they have waste recycling capabilities or not, but it would seem logical to include them if they operate behind enemy lines for long periods.

Heck, since the poll just says 'stealth suit', we can include the XV-22's shield generator as well in the equation, and we may as well use the arm model from it as well, which gives us two interchangeable weapon hardpoints and confirmed manipulator digits. So, in the end, we have;

Space Marine power armour (to be generous) that provides solid protection, carries its own weight, keeps the Marine active in the field via waste recyclers and provides tactile feedback to the wearer. It has manipulator hands and a nuclear fusion generator.

Tau stealth suit, which provides solid protection, carries its own weight, provides tactile feedback to the wearer, incorporates stealth technology that renders them undetectable by IR, hard to detect visually or audible, enhances the wearer's physical capabilities to be equivalent to a super-human Space Marine, has a jetpack that renders it capable of sustained, if nap-of-the-earth flight, and has an energy shield that resists even anti-tank weapons. It also has manipulator hands and is powered by a nuclear fission generator.

So, the Marine power armour actually has a better power system, and we can confirm its waste-recycling, while we have to assume that feature of the Tau gear. If we assume Tau armour does not have that feature, we end up with a final score of;

Power Armour: 2 confirmed advantages
Stealth Armour: 4 confirmed advantages
Equivalents: 3 confirmed equivalencies

Of course, if we consider that the poll specifies that these items can be mass produced, then it tips the scales even further, because if we can mass produce the item in question, we can also mass produce all of the components and requisite technologies.

Gaining the ability to make Marine style power armour gives us;
1) The ability to make Ceramite.
2) Neural interface technology requiring invasive surgery.
3) High-level medical technology to eliminate cybernetic rejection.
4) Reliable, miniaturised Nuclear fission technology.

Gaining the ability to make Tau style stealth armour gives us;
1) The ability to make a nanocrystalline composite (which means it gives us nanotechnology!)
2) Neural interface technology that does not require invasive surgery.
3) Liquid Metal manipulation technology.
4) Man-portable powered flight.
4) Reliable, miniaturised Nuclear fusion technology

Bleh, there are others, but I just realised I'm out of time to continue the list. If an Imperial could please round off the list of technologies required to make Power Armour, and a Tau do the same for the Stealth Suit, that's be grand.

I voted Imperial Knights because I didn't see any Melta-weapon options

 Furyou Miko wrote:
So, in the end, we have;

Space Marine power armour (to be generous) that provides solid protection, carries its own weight, keeps the Marine active in the field via waste recyclers and provides tactile feedback to the wearer. It has manipulator hands and a nuclear fusion generator.

Tau stealth suit, which provides solid protection, carries its own weight, provides tactile feedback to the wearer, incorporates stealth technology that renders them undetectable by IR, hard to detect visually or audible, enhances the wearer's physical capabilities to be equivalent to a super-human Space Marine, has a jetpack that renders it capable of sustained, if nap-of-the-earth flight, and has an energy shield that resists even anti-tank weapons. It also has manipulator hands and is powered by a nuclear fission generator.

From a modern day perspective, wouldn't this alone make power armour the superior choice? Nuclear fusion has so many potential applications it's ridiculous.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Gaining the ability to make Marine style power armour gives us;
1) The ability to make Ceramite.
2) Neural interface technology requiring invasive surgery.
3) High-level medical technology to eliminate cybernetic rejection.
4) Reliable, miniaturised Nuclear fission technology.

Gaining the ability to make Tau style stealth armour gives us;
1) The ability to make a nanocrystalline composite (which means it gives us nanotechnology!)
2) Neural interface technology that does not require invasive surgery.
3) Liquid Metal manipulation technology.
4) Man-portable powered flight.
4) Reliable, miniaturised Nuclear fusion technology

Didn't you mix them up? Who has what? I'm pretty sure PA is powered by nuclear fusion. And reliable fusion technology would trump everything else on the list. Especially if you can have a reliable miniaturized portable version.

Whoops, yes, those are the wrong way round (I think I did it right further up).

Here's the thing. I'm not sure which is more valuable - reliable fusion technology, or nanotechnology in general, especially since nanotechnology theoretically can lead to even more advanced power generation technology.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Whoops, yes, those are the wrong way round (I think I did it right further up).

Here's the thing. I'm not sure which is more valuable - reliable fusion technology, or nanotechnology in general, especially since nanotechnology theoretically can lead to even more advanced power generation technology.

Hmm, they're both immensely useful but I think in the current age having basically unlimited and reliable power generation (clean too!) is more important. Governments having been pouring billions upon billions into nuclear fusion research for the past 50 years and we still haven't achieved it yet. Nano-tech seems more like a given with time and investment.

Miniature fusion generators basically allows the military to equip soldiers, ships, submarines, planes, etc that can operate for extremely long periods of time without the need to resupply and would be a big help for interstellar travel as well. It would also pretty much solve global warming and extreme pollution from coal and fossil fuels in countries like China pretty much instantly. And it would allow for energy independence as well. So I dunno, seems more "essential" (for lack of a better term) than nano-tech for us currently.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Whoops, yes, those are the wrong way round (I think I did it right further up).

Here's the thing. I'm not sure which is more valuable - reliable fusion technology, or nanotechnology in general, especially since nanotechnology theoretically can lead to even more advanced power generation technology.

The only thing more powerful then Fusion is Antimatter, and you probably don't want to screw around with that stuff unless you know full well what you're doing, seeing as to how much damage a couple grams of anti-hydrogen will do. Meanwhile fusion is completely safe and has no radioactive waste.

So. Militarily, I still maintain that stealth suits are Power Armour +2, but for the general good of mankind, the technology to build power armour would do far better for us.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
So. Militarily, I still maintain that stealth suits are Power Armour +2, but for the general good of mankind, the technology to build power armour would do far better for us.

Not really. Corvus Armor coupled with Shadow-Walking is just as stealthy as Stealth Suits, if not more so. Although, Raven Guard are incredibly hax given that an eight foot tall dude wearing an APC could infiltrate a subway station in broad daylight without anything seeing him, including CCTV.

I'm not familiar with Shadow-Walking, but even so, that only reduces it to Power Armour +1.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Agreed, Raxmei. Equipment can be transferred from person to person, making it a big advantage.

For all those people who say power armor-- I think equipping ten thousand soldiers with lasguns and ammo is more important than equipping one soldier with power armor and no weapon

Just give him one of the assault rifles we have lying around I guess? Ten thousand soldiers with power armour and AK-74s would easily beat ten thousand soldiers with a lasgun and contemporary armour. The lasgun is only a marginal upgrade in killing power to what we already have (and maybe even less, can a lasgun pierce walls like an AK?) and rifle munitions are only a tiny part of a supply line that has to be set up anyways. I fail to see any advantage offered by a lasgun. It is a great gun for 40k's IG, but much less so for a 21st century army.

Lasguns blow off limbs or completely blow up arms, can punch through concrete without much hassle, and their ammunition can be used as extremely potent IED's.

And how is that so much better than an AK? It's killing power is not much less than a lasgun and already is all we need for a rifle, it can punch through concrete, and using lasgun ammunition for IED's leaves you unable to shoot. Better to use other stuff for IED's.

Its always nice to have the option. But the biggest advantage is the relief its puts on your logistics. Instead of needing to provide a steady supply of ammo, you instead just need some electrical generators. You also get more shots per pack.

So instead of a soldier having 5-6 magazines of 30 rounds each he has 5-6 magazines with 200 rounds each. Far more shots, plus the packs can be recharged quickly in the field. That's in the extreme cases where you actually would run out of ammunition, which are going to be less common because you can actually carry more.

AKs are great, but whats better than an AK? A gun that has all the same advantages, but also has even easier access to ammunition.

Do you know how large a part of a logistics chain consists of rifle ammunition? A really, really tiny part. A soldier needs much more than bullets, so you are going to have to set up that logistics chain anyways. This makes the advantage rather irrelevent. Also, it is completely negated when you have people blowing up their ammo. A lasgun offers no real advantages over modern assault rifles for the military. The extra killing power of a lasgun might be great when fighting Orks, but the military will only ever have to fight other humans, against which a modern assault rifle already offers more than enough killing power. Compared to the huge advantages offered by power armour, the advantages offered by a lasgun are insignificant.