Gotta admit, this has me more excited than I thought I'd be. That shot of the buried star destroyer is what did it for me. I think breaking away from Lucas and the EU was an incredibly smart move on their part.
So freaking excited. I can't contain it. This dropping tonight made the whole no-sleep-for-two-days-because-feth-you-assignment-and-work worth it. Because I was awake to see it straight away
I'm work-blocked so I can't see this. I would appreciate if someone would describe it to me. Use big words and write out the sound effects, like "snap-hissss" for when a lightsaber fires up.
I think I must be the only person who did not like seeing decrepit Solo. That was just painful. I really wish they had made a clean break in terms of characters and actors.
Everything else looks great and exciting. But then, so did the Phantom Menace trailers...
Indeed. I'm going to have to hear from people who have seen the whole thing (that I trust) and say it is good before I get to excited. Those last three had good trailers but were incredibly painful to watch. Hopefully this diverges from that but once bitten and all that.
squidhills wrote: I'm work-blocked so I can't see this. I would appreciate if someone would describe it to me. Use big words and write out the sound effects, like "snap-hissss" for when a lightsaber fires up.
Tatooine theme song plays as the camera pans over a desert. You can see a small speeder zipping along the base of some dunes. A crashed X-wing is seen in the foreground. As the camera pans right you suddenly see a crashed Star Destroyer in the background. Screen goes black.
"The Force is Strong in my Family"- Luke
Image of Vader's melted helmet and his breathing. Screen goes black.
"My Father has it"- Luke
Hooded figure kneels next to R2 in front of maybe some lava. Extends a prosthetic hand to touch R2's head. Screen goes dark.
"I have it"-Luke
We see a small alien hand extending a lightsabre. A female hand takes it.
"My sister has it" - Luke
Screen goes black
"You have that power too"- Luke
X-wings ZOOOOMING over a lake at high speed. Pilot screeaming "WHOOOO!"
Cross-guard sabre ignites in a dark room and is swung at the screen! ZZZZZwoooosh!
Rey, Ball droid, and Boyega's character run away from an explosion on Tatooine! KABOOM!
Masked and hooded figure looms in a dark and fiery scene, 'Chzzzum' ignites red light sabre and hand extended aggressively like a force choke.
Scene of dozens of stormtroopers in front of a large podium turn and face the screen in ordered ranks. Podium has a figure addressing the assembly. TENHUT!!
Rey turns and looks upward away from the camera.
2 TIEs come barreling through some smoke. ZHUUUUUUUUMMM
A battle scene with Storm Troopers in a hanger, explosions destroy parked TIEs and send troopers flying. Lasers FREEM FREEM across the screen.
Close shot of Boyega quickly removing his helmet. Intense look on face. Music is reaching maximum intensity!
Shot of a Super Star Destroyer in space, a strange black shuttle and multiple escorting ships approach it.
A shot inside a corridor. What appears to be a Storm Trooper with black chrome armor walks menacingly down the hall, a blaster in his hand and wearing a black red trimmed cape.
Ball droid peeks around a corner.
Rey looks out of breath as she extends her hand to Boyega who is on the ground and also looking very out of breath.
Millennium Falcon zips along the dunes, pursued by two Ties. It avoids the wreckage of the crashed Star Destroyer and then ENTERS THE FREAKING ENGINE! TIE continues ot fire its lazers! PEW PEW PEW It hits some super structure and there is an explosion! BOOM!
Screen goes dark. Music stops.
"Chewie... "
We seen Han and Chewie in the Cantina. Chewie has his Bowcaster out and aimed at something.
I remember the prequel trailers being good, but not THAT good.
I certainly never got goosebumps from watching any of them (or from the films themselves), whereas this trailer just gave me my fist star wars related goosebumps since the eighties...
squidhills wrote: I would appreciate if someone would describe it to me.
Fade in to long shot of Tatooine landscape, Jedi theme intro plays, pan right in time with a landspeeder in the distance to reveal a crashed Star Destroyer dominates the background like a mountain. Cut to black, Luke voiceover: "The Force is strong in my family." Fade in on Vader's melted mask -- "My father has it" -- music hits ominous beat that progresses to upbeat with cut to zoom on R2-D2 next to a hooded figure -- "I have it" -- figure places mechanical hand on Artoo's dome, cut to close up shot of child's hand passing light saber to woman's hands -- "My sister has it" -- cut to black on low strings -- "You have that power, too" -- words appear THIS CHRISTMAS while Jedi theme soars -- shot of new X-Wings in formation flying low over water with trees in background, X-Wing pilot (Poe?) says "woohoo" -- quick cut to Sith cutting towards the camera with hilt-saber, red/smoky background -- quick cut to Rey and Finn running away from explosion toward camera on Tatooine -- quick cut back to Sith guy close up spin around using force power with fire and storm troopers in background -- quick cut to loads of storm stroopers on mountainous world with giant red banner with semi-Imperial symbol -- quick cut to close up of Rey -- quick cut to strafing TIEs -- quick cut to interior Star Destroyer hanger battle scene, TIEs getting blown up -- quick cut to Finn pulling off storm trooper mask while breathing hard, looking at something glowing -- fade out/in exterior shot some kind of shuttle with TIE escort flying toward new star destroyer design -- fade over to storm strooper in chrome armor walking towards camera in star ship interior -- fade over to ball droid peeping around corner in Falcon corridor -- fade over to Rey looking past camer -- quick cut to Finn taking her hand and lunging forward -- cut to TIE pusuing Falcon into derelict engine of crashed star destroyer on Tatooine -- cut to TIE interior, new pilot design -- cut to TIE perspective on Falcon manuevering through star destroyer interior PEW PEW PEW explosion -- cut to black -- Han voiceover "Chewie" -- fade in to interior shot Falcon, aged Han Solo next to non-aged Chewie facing camera "we're home." Wookie groowwwwwwwllll -- quick cut to STAR WARS logo!
I remember people getting goosebumps from The Phantom Menace trailer and being very excited about it. Then the movie actually came out and there were diminishing returns from that point on.
I was 7 years old and saw the first movie in theater with my dad.
The darn thing still has a hold after all this time.
Yes, some inner geek just got terribly excited, baseball bats, mace, tasers and medication was needed.
The crashed X-wing and Star Destroyer is a fantastic image for clearly showing things have moved on.
Things have become more... shiny but definitely kept key designs of the old in uniforms and ships.
Okay, so now I have to pretend I saw nothing and I want to know as little as possible when I go to see the movie.
This has worked very well for ensuring the whole thing has proper impact... I like surprises, I think it will be safe to say it will not suck.
Looking forward to taking my kids to this one: I think this will be done the "right" way.
Seeing old Han is ok, we all sometimes need to be reminded that not all Peter Pans stay young forever.
Plus, I have found many a movie where the "old guy" handing out a serious but-kicking is incredibly awesome and sometimes funny.
squidhills wrote: I'm work-blocked so I can't see this. I would appreciate if someone would describe it to me. Use big words and write out the sound effects, like "snap-hissss" for when a lightsaber fires up.
Tatooine theme song plays as the camera pans over a desert. You can see a small speeder zipping along the base of some dunes. A crashed X-wing is seen in the foreground. As the camera pans right you suddenly see a crashed Star Destroyer in the background. Screen goes black.
"The Force is Strong in my Family"- Luke
Image of Vader's melted helmet and his breathing. Screen goes black.
"My Father has it"- Luke
Hooded figure kneels next to R2 in front of maybe some lava. Extends a prosthetic hand to touch R2's head. Screen goes dark.
"I have it"-Luke
We see a small alien hand extending a lightsabre. A female hand takes it.
"My sister has it" - Luke
Screen goes black
"You have that power too"- Luke
X-wings ZOOOOMING over a lake at high speed. Pilot screeaming "WHOOOO!"
Cross-guard sabre ignites in a dark room and is swung at the screen! ZZZZZwoooosh!
Rey, Ball droid, and Boyega's character run away from an explosion on Tatooine! KABOOM!
Masked and hooded figure looms in a dark and fiery scene, 'Chzzzum' ignites red light sabre and hand extended aggressively like a force choke.
Scene of dozens of stormtroopers in front of a large podium turn and face the screen in ordered ranks. Podium has a figure addressing the assembly. TENHUT!!
Rey turns and looks upward away from the camera.
2 TIEs come barreling through some smoke. ZHUUUUUUUUMMM
A battle scene with Storm Troopers in a hanger, explosions destroy parked TIEs and send troopers flying. Lasers FREEM FREEM across the screen.
Close shot of Boyega quickly removing his helmet. Intense look on face. Music is reaching maximum intensity!
Shot of a Super Star Destroyer in space, a strange black shuttle and multiple escorting ships approach it.
A shot inside a corridor. What appears to be a Storm Trooper with black chrome armor walks menacingly down the hall, a blaster in his hand and wearing a black red trimmed cape.
Ball droid peeks around a corner.
Rey looks out of breath as she extends her hand to Boyega who is on the ground and also looking very out of breath.
Millennium Falcon zips along the dunes, pursued by two Ties. It avoids the wreckage of the crashed Star Destroyer and then ENTERS THE FREAKING ENGINE! TIE continues ot fire its lazers! PEW PEW PEW It hits some super structure and there is an explosion! BOOM!
Screen goes dark. Music stops.
"Chewie... "
We seen Han and Chewie in the Cantina. Chewie has his Bowcaster out and aimed at something.
Han smiles and says "We're Home!"
DUNDUNDUNDA! End of tailer!
I can only hope you had as much fun typing that up as I had reading it. Thank you for that.
Manchu wrote: Chrome Storm Trooper = Best Storm Trooper
Until that chrome meets a Tatooine sandstorm
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Ahtman wrote: I remember people getting goosebumps from The Phantom Menace trailer and being very excited about it. Then the movie actually came out and there were diminishing returns from that point on.
Trust you to point out the only cloud in the sky
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nels1031 wrote: The black dude needs an inhaler or work on his cardio.
Yeah, I've never understood the star wars obsession with respiratory problems.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Star wars, mad max, Spectre - I may actually go to a cinema this year.
WrentheFaceless wrote: FYI, the desert planet is confirmed to be called Jakku, its not Tattoine
That's what Abrams said in the live panel... but this is the same guy that swore up and down that Benedict Cumberbatch wasn't Khan in Star Trek Into Darkness, so take it with a grain of salt.
Mad Max looks Ace. I saw a full-length trailer at the movie theater a couple weeks ago, and the soldier almost saluted. First movie I've been genuinely excited about since the first Hobbit movie.
jasper76 wrote: Mad Max looks Ace. I saw a full-length trailer at the movie theater a couple weeks ago, and the soldier almost saluted. First movie I've been genuinely excited about since the first Hobbit movie.
You and me both.
Back to Star Wars. There's a question that I need answering:
Anybody who is anybody in the Star Wars universe will know of Solo, the Falcon, and Solo's old tricks.
So why do TIE fighters keep following him into fething canyons, and wrecked spaceships, and asteroid fields! For feth's sake!
It's Solo's oldest trick, but they fall for it every time!!!
squidhills wrote: I'm work-blocked so I can't see this. I would appreciate if someone would describe it to me. Use big words and write out the sound effects, like "snap-hissss" for when a lightsaber fires up.
For a minute there, I was wondering why people were talking about work (it's 21:19hrs here) then I remembered the 10 hour time difference.
Yeah, you're at work, I'm at home on a comfortable chair, a chilled beer in my hand, a selection of snacks by my side, watching the Star Wars trailer a million times! he he he
I joke. It'll be my turn in a few hours and you can laugh at me.
No worries! There's no sign of the DVD coming out over here any time soon; at this point I think I'm likely to end up seeing The Force Awakens before I get Rebels or the final Clone Wars series!
Grey Templar wrote: All the movies are still canon, so the M-word still exists. But I doubt they'll make any mention of it.
Well, midichlorians didn't exist until Lucas dreamt them up for Episode I. I'd be happy enough if they just didn't bring it up, but even happier if they rolled back to the Force 1.0.
jasper76 wrote: Any guesses on whether they will jettison or double-down on the whole midichlorian thing? Above all else, that's what ruined Episode I for me.
I doubt it will be mentioned.
I would like to think that Abrams knows how stupid of an idea midi-chlorians was because I'm pretty sure everyone in the world except for Lucas would agree.
Grey Templar wrote: All the movies are still canon, so the M-word still exists. But I doubt they'll make any mention of it.
Well, midichlorians didn't exist until Lucas dreamt them up for Episode I. I'd be happy enough if they just didn't bring it up, but even happier if they rolled back to the Force 1.0.
According to the book The Making of Star Wars: The Definitive Story Behind the Original Film released in 2007, Lucas came up with the idea of midi-chlorians as early as 1977 when he was laying out the guidelines for the EU. He waited until The Phantom Menace to put that stupid, stupid, stupid idea on film.
Grey Templar wrote: The OT was good despite his presence because he wasn't calling the shots.
Even then, there are some incredibly stupid things that happen in the Original Trilogy. Here are a few:
Star Wars: Princess Leia: "They let us go. It was the only reason for the ease of our escape." "They're tracking us." So what do they do? Fly directly to the hidden Rebel base and the Empire follows them there.
The Empire Strikes Back: The Empire commits to a ground assault on Hoth instead of an orbital bombardment from some of the most powerful warships in the Galaxy. Vader has no problem straight up murdering subordinates who make the slightest mistake, but doesn't just straight up kill Han, Chewie, and Leia. Also, Yoda is the worst teacher in the Galaxy.
Return of the Jedi: Luke's "plan" for rescuing Han from Jabba is stupid, like insanely stupid. Also, Ewoks.
Luke probably doesn;t know anything about Midi-chloririans anyway. Yoda and Ben never told him and the rest of the Jedi who knew about them were all killed. The New Jedi Order would probably not know about them.
Grey Templar wrote: The OT was good despite his presence because he wasn't calling the shots.
Even then, there are some incredibly stupid things that happen in the Original Trilogy. Here are a few:
Star Wars: Princess Leia: "They let us go. It was the only reason for the ease of our escape." "They're tracking us." So what do they do? Fly directly to the hidden Rebel base and the Empire follows them there.
The Empire Strikes Back: The Empire commits to a ground assault on Hoth instead of an orbital bombardment from some of the most powerful warships in the Galaxy. Vader has no problem straight up murdering subordinates who make the slightest mistake, but doesn't just straight up kill Han, Chewie, and Leia. Also, Yoda is the worst teacher in the Galaxy.
Return of the Jedi: Luke's "plan" for rescuing Han from Jabba is stupid, like insanely stupid. Also, Ewoks.
Grey Templar wrote: The OT was good despite his presence because he wasn't calling the shots.
Even then, there are some incredibly stupid things that happen in the Original Trilogy. Here are a few:
Star Wars: Princess Leia: "They let us go. It was the only reason for the ease of our escape." "They're tracking us." So what do they do? Fly directly to the hidden Rebel base and the Empire follows them there.
The Empire Strikes Back: The Empire commits to a ground assault on Hoth instead of an orbital bombardment from some of the most powerful warships in the Galaxy. Vader has no problem straight up murdering subordinates who make the slightest mistake, but doesn't just straight up kill Han, Chewie, and Leia. Also, Yoda is the worst teacher in the Galaxy.
Return of the Jedi: Luke's "plan" for rescuing Han from Jabba is stupid, like insanely stupid. Also, Ewoks.
Grey Templar wrote: The OT was good despite his presence because he wasn't calling the shots.
Even then, there are some incredibly stupid things that happen in the Original Trilogy. Here are a few:
Star Wars: Princess Leia: "They let us go. It was the only reason for the ease of our escape." "They're tracking us." So what do they do? Fly directly to the hidden Rebel base and the Empire follows them there.
The Empire Strikes Back: The Empire commits to a ground assault on Hoth instead of an orbital bombardment from some of the most powerful warships in the Galaxy. Vader has no problem straight up murdering subordinates who make the slightest mistake, but doesn't just straight up kill Han, Chewie, and Leia. Also, Yoda is the worst teacher in the Galaxy.
Return of the Jedi: Luke's "plan" for rescuing Han from Jabba is stupid, like insanely stupid. Also, Ewoks.
Aww, Love Ewoks. Ther're tiny wookies.
C'mon... they were awesome when we were kids*...
They're still awesome now.
Awesome to my kids for sure. I wasn't particularly fond of them when I was kid but I didn't outwardly dislike them back then. I really don't dislike them now either and they are pretty cute for murderous alien teddy bears... but they're still pretty dumb and the fact that they defeat armored stormtroopers with rocks and arrows is ridiculous.
Also, anyone remember The Ewok Adventure? I rest my case.
I don't see why they can't. Rocks won't do much unless used as a melee weapon, but a sharp stick stabbed in the soft flexible part will do some damage. And it it seemed to be very gorilla warfarey.
squidhills wrote: I can only hope you had as much fun typing that up as I had reading it. Thank you for that.
Dang dude don't even acknowledge my wall of text, very dark side of you.
My apologies, good sir. This thread has been flying fast and furious and I overlooked your post. I have gone back and read it, and I extend the same thanks and appreciation to you as I did to Grey Templar. You have both made my day.
The Empire Strikes Back: The Empire commits to a ground assault on Hoth instead of an orbital bombardment from some of the most powerful warships in the Galaxy. Vader has no problem straight up murdering subordinates who make the slightest mistake, but doesn't just straight up kill Han, Chewie, and Leia. Also, Yoda is the worst teacher in the Galaxy.
I can't refute the other points, but I can refute these:
Ground assault... General Veers: "Com-scan has detected an energy shield protecting a region of the sixth planet in the system. The shield is strong enough to repel any bombardment." Follower by Vader making disparaging remarks about Admiral Ozzel and "field promoting" Captain Piett.
Vader didn't kill Han, Chewie, et al because he needed their suffering to draw Luke to him. If Luke felt their deaths, he might not rush to avenge them. They are already dead; what's the hurry? But if Luke feels them being tortured, he will think he can save them if he acts right now before his training is finished, and gets captured.
Yoda being the worst teacher in the Galaxy? Well, the fact of the matter is... um... Ok, I'll have to give you that one. Only because Mister Miyagi isn't in the Star Wars Galaxy. Seriously. Guy can't just *teach* martial arts? He's gotta get his house re-painted using child labor first?
ScootyPuffJunior wrote: Star Wars: Princess Leia: "They let us go. It was the only reason for the ease of our escape." "They're tracking us." So what do they do? Fly directly to the hidden Rebel base and the Empire follows them there.
I figured she wanted to draw the Empire to Yavin at that point to prevent another massacre of civilians and because she had the plans, concluding that they would know soon enough whether or not there was a way to take out the Death Star.
ScootyPuffJunior wrote: The Empire Strikes Back: The Empire commits to a ground assault on Hoth instead of an orbital bombardment from some of the most powerful warships in the Galaxy. Vader has no problem straight up murdering subordinates who make the slightest mistake, but doesn't just straight up kill Han, Chewie, and Leia. Also, Yoda is the worst teacher in the Galaxy.
Vader clearly wants to pin the Rebels down so he can personally assault the base -- likely to take prisoners and arguably to find Luke. (Unless you believe he didn't recognize his own last name.) Vader kills subordinates because hatred has crippled his ability to lead, which was based on compassion. He doesn't kill his prisoners because he will torture them until it attracts Luke. Yoda is not a good teacher but I'd argue Obi-Wan is pretty clearly the worst. Or maybe Mace Windu.
ScootyPuffJunior wrote: Return of the Jedi: Luke's "plan" for rescuing Han from Jabba is stupid, like insanely stupid. Also, Ewoks.
It's hard to judge Luke's plan because we don't know what he knew. (Did he know Jabba would want to execute them via Saarlac if he killed the Rancor? If so, that was pretty brilliant.) In other words, Luke's plan might have been okay -- but RotJ doesn't show us enough for us to judge ... because RotJ is busy being a space opera. And those scenes are very good space opera scenes. I got nothing on the Ewoks, however.
squidhills wrote: I can't refute the other points, but I can refute these:
Ground assault... General Veers: "Com-scan has detected an energy shield protecting a region of the sixth planet in the system. The shield is strong enough to repel any bombardment." Follower by Vader making disparaging remarks about Admiral Ozzel and "field promoting" Captain Piett.
That shows the inconsistency of deflector shields in Star Wars. The Empire was able to walk right up (literally, because they brought no air support... another stupid move) to it and blast it. The blaster cannons on the AT-ATs were able to pierce the shield, but the combined firepower of the Death Squadron Star Destroyers would have had no effect? From Return we know that you can't just waltz through a deflector shield too (the shuttle needed it deactivated in the beginning of the movie and the fighters had to avoid it during the Battle of Endor).
Vader didn't kill Han, Chewie, et al because he needed their suffering to draw Luke to him. If Luke felt their deaths, he might not rush to avenge them. They are already dead; what's the hurry? But if Luke feels them being tortured, he will think he can save them if he acts right now before his training is finished, and gets captured.
I think it's important to realize that Vader had no idea that Luke was on Dagobah receiving Jedi training from Yoda. For all he knew, Luke was on the Falcon with the rest of the gang. When he finds out that he wasn't, he decided to set a trap to catch Luke even though he didn't know that Luke would come to Bespin. It's actually one of the biggest plot holes in the movie.
Grey Templar wrote: All the movies are still canon, so the M-word still exists. But I doubt they'll make any mention of it.
Well, midichlorians didn't exist until Lucas dreamt them up for Episode I. I'd be happy enough if they just didn't bring it up, but even happier if they rolled back to the Force 1.0.
I also hope for that word to be forgotten....
The way I personally view the 2 trilogies is similar to 40k... You started out with knowledge of the "present" (new hope, Empire, and return) but there is an acknowledgement that much knowledge has been lost through the years... then you get the Horus Heresy books (Episode 1-3) that try to flesh out the way things were and most of us who are most familiar with "present" states are reacting in less than favorable ways.
The way I personally view the 2 trilogies is similar to 40k... You started out with knowledge of the "present" (new hope, Empire, and return) but there is an acknowledgement that much knowledge has been lost through the years... then you get the Horus Heresy books (Episode 1-3) that try to flesh out the way things were and most of us who are most familiar with "present" states are reacting in less than favorable ways.
The key difference being that Horus's Anakin->Vader Fall was far better written than Anakin's own
Although for the most part, Clone Wars does more for Anakin's character than the films ever did!
Manchu wrote: I figured she wanted to draw the Empire to Yavin at that point to prevent another massacre of civilians and because she had the plans, concluding that they would know soon enough whether or not there was a way to take out the Death Star.
Meh, I don't buy it. It was a terrible move on their part because the only reason why they were even able to defeat the Death Star was because Luke cheated and used magic. If Luke had forgotten to wear his plot armor for the battle, they would have failed the trench run and the Empire would have destroyed their base and crushed the Rebellion. A much better plan would have been to engage the Empire away from their (hidden) base, so if the initial attack failed, the rest of the Rebellion would survive.
Vader clearly wants to pin the Rebels down so he can personally assault the base -- likely to take prisoners and arguably to find Luke. (Unless you believe he didn't recognize his own last name.) Vader kills subordinates because hatred has crippled his ability to lead, which was based on compassion. He doesn't kill his prisoners because he will torture them until it attracts Luke. Yoda is not a good teacher but I'd argue Obi-Wan is pretty clearly the worst. Or maybe Mace Windu.
See what I wrote above about Vader knowing nothing of Luke's Jedi "training." Did he know that Luke was his son? Maybe, depending on what year it is (because we all know that Lucas made that gak up between the first two movies). Even if he knew Luke was his son, the only thing he knows is that Luke is "strong with the Force," and he knows from his own training that those skills need to be developed.
It's hard to judge Luke's plan because we don't know what he knew. (Did he know Jabba would want to execute them via Saarlac if he killed the Rancor? If so, that was pretty brilliant.) In other words, Luke's plan might have been okay -- but RotJ doesn't show us enough for us to judge ... because RotJ is busy being a space opera. And those scenes are very good space opera scenes. I got nothing on the Ewoks, however.
It's still an overly complicated plan... almost as bad a the Joker's plan in The Dark Knight.
Keep in mind, I'm not really trying to pick the Original Trilogy apart... I think they are perfect they way they are, stupidi plot holes and all!
SPJr, you can't treat SW like history. There is no possible version of SW in which Luke does not blow up the Death Star. The setting of SW only exists so that Luke can blow up the Death Star.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: The 3 or so minutes of these two trailers have already given me far more pleasure that the whole of the prequel trilogy
I felt the same way!
Put the hairs up on the back of my neck, awesome stuff.
Oh and I don't think the entire Rebellion was at Yavin; there's no sign of Mon Mothma and no reason why she would not have been at the briefing as she was on Home One in RotJ. The explanation, of course, is that the character did not exist at that point. But if we're treating SW as an alternate reality rather than a setting in which space operas happen then the point stands.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Everything else looks great and exciting. But then, so did the Phantom Menace trailers...
And the Phantom Menace was great and exciting that first time at the cinema. It was only afterwards that the great gaping holes in it became more obvious.
It is kind of cool though that this new one already looks more 'Star Wars' than the prequels. Part of that is all the familiar stuff (stormtroopers, tie fighters, etc) but the prequel trailers also tended to focus far more on the drama, forgetting that Star Wars is supposed to be fun.
Grey Templar wrote: We seen Han and Chewie in the Cantina. Chewie has his Bowcaster out and aimed at something.
Han smiles and says "We're Home!"
That's the cockpit of the Falcon, not the cantina. The ribbed bit behind them is the end of the 'tunnel' from the main saucer.
As for the trailer, I think the only words I have for it are: 'SQUUUEEEEEEEEEEEE!'
Manchu wrote: Oh and I don't think the entire Rebellion was at Yavin; there's no sign of Mon Mothma and no reason why she would not have been at the briefing as she was on Home One in RotJ. The explanation, of course, is that the character did not exist at that point. But if we're treating SW as an alternate reality rather than a setting in which space operas happen then the point stands.
Same with Ackbar... in ANH, there are no real "aliens" to speak of within the fighting ranks of the rebellion (then again, we really don't get a good look at the "Rebels" aside from a remote base)
Off topic, but do you think Admiral Ackbar gets "squeemish" if people are eating sushi around him?
insaniak wrote: forgetting that Star Wars is supposed to be fun.
Yeah -- or more like, forgot what fun means. "Now this is podracing!"
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Ensis Ferrae wrote: Same with Ackbar... in ANH, there are no real "aliens" to speak of within the fighting ranks of the rebellion (then again, we really don't get a good look at the "Rebels" aside from a remote base)
According to EU sources, Ackbar had not joined up with the Rebellion yet because he was busy being Tarkin's personal slave imprisoned back on Dac (a.k.a., Mon Calmari).
Ensis Ferrae wrote: Off topic, but do you think Admiral Ackbar gets "squeemish" if people are eating sushi around him?
Sushi is fish though. Just don't bring up Red Lobster.
insaniak wrote: forgetting that Star Wars is supposed to be fun.
Yeah -- or more like, forgot what fun means. "Now this is podracing!"
See, I think the movies themselves still had that fun (once you ignore the awful dialogue and the mssive plotholes) ... my point was more that they didn't focus on it in the trailers, trying to portray them instead as some big, serious drama. And that was never going to work.
For all their faults, I still enjoy the hell out of the prequels. Mostly because lightsabers and explosions, admittedly... but that's all I ever really expected from them to begin with, so it's all good.
Manchu wrote: SPJr, you can't treat SW like history. There is no possible version of SW in which Luke does not blow up the Death Star. The setting of SW only exists so that Luke can blow up the Death Star.
Exactly, which is why I am not actually trying to pick the movies apart, they're perfect they way they are. They don't have to be "perfect" in my eyes when it comes to stuff like this, I'm only bringing these things up because the Original Trilogy has always gotten a pass (rightfully so!) with its plot holes and inconsistencies just because of what it is. Trust me, none of the things I've brought up has taken any of the pure joy I still get from watching these movies... and now that my two daughters love them too, I get even more joy in watching them.
However, you're telling me that I can't treat the movies as "history" in an attempt to consider all the things that we don't know or see on film but in order to make sense of the plot holes, you're giving the characters motives and reasoning that we as viewers have not seen them demonstrate... which isn't much different than what I am doing.
SPJr -- I guess what I meant is, the proposition "only Luke could make the shot" is not true if we treat SW as an alternate reality. Although the shot was extremely tough, it was possible without Force-assisted targeting. "Only Luke could make the shot" is only true if we treat SW as a Hollywood-produced fairy tale.
Insaniak -- I don't think the prequels are fun. Phantom Menace tried but failed miserably (mesa no kidding!). The other two seemed to abandon even trying, which was ultimately preferable in my view considering Phantom Menace
Manchu wrote: SPJr -- I guess what I meant is, the proposition "only Luke could make the shot" is not true if we treat SW as an alternate reality. Although the shot was extremely tough, it was possible without Force-assisted targeting. "Only Luke could make the shot" is only true if we treat SW as a Hollywood-produced fairy tale.
Well, it is a Hollywood-produced fairy tale.
As far as making the shot... The pilots doubted it could be done, Gold Squadron got blown out the trench before they could even try, and Garven Dreis (one of the best Rebel pilots) couldn't make the shot with the assistance of his targeting computer. So yeah, Luke using magic (and Han covering his ass) is the only reason we are given by the film as to why the Rebels were successful at the Battle of Yavin.
Only thing that raised an eyebrow was the re-imaging of stormtrooper armor.
It's not that i didn't like it... like the Chrome heavy trooper is awesome. The slicked up Tie pilot ? Phenomenal. Something about the white stormtroopers armor though was just ever so slightly offputting. Maybe because its something SO iconic, but the Clone troopers in the prequels didn't give me this effect.
I dunno, not sure. Anyway... not a big deal. 98% awesome, and that's still an A+ in my book.
Ahtman wrote: Canonically speaking isn't Han from Corellia ...
Originally, yes. Now? Who knows.
The reference in the trailer though is probably a confirmation of the early rumours that the movie starts with the Falcon being owned by someone else (Han having lost it years prior) and Han and Chewie at some point in the movie getting their ship back.
Ahtman wrote: Canonically speaking isn't Han from Corellia ...
Originally, yes. Now? Who knows.
The reference in the trailer though is probably a confirmation of the early rumours that the movie starts with the Falcon being owned by someone else (Han having lost it years prior) and Han and Chewie at some point in the movie getting their ship back.
And Han is a space traveling smuggler through and through. Even if he never lost the Falcon, just being back in the cockpit and fighting is probably more "home" to him than anything else.
Maybe Han and Chewie travel to Jakku in search of the Falcon. Seems Rey lives there and might help them find the ship and repair her. I guess it is possible that Vader's helmet also ended up there and Kylo Ren sends Imperial forces to check it out. Finn seems to defect and teams up with Rey.
d-usa wrote: And Han is a space traveling smuggler through and through. Even if he never lost the Falcon, just being back in the cockpit and fighting is probably more "home" to him than anything else.
I could see him referring to the Falcon as 'Home'. Corellians are known for space-faring whether it be pirate or not.
So i guess the girl is Luke's daughter and the guy could be related to Lando Calrissian? Making the movie all about the next generation? And maybe Vader had a secret protege ready to help him overthrow the emperor?
One of the problems (IMO) with a lot of EU material is authors have a whole galaxy of characters but for marketing purposes most stories focus on the same handful of people.
When Luke says, "you have that power, too," he could be talking to a niece or nephew.
Also, just going by what's been seen in the films, the Falcon definitely is home to Han. He moves about from place to place, and always has the Falcon. He's obviously gutted when he can't use it in the mission to Endor and is visibly shaken that he won't see it again.
To the general audience, emotionally the Falcon is his home. Anything else would simply be confusing.
ScootyPuffJunior wrote: That shows the inconsistency of deflector shields in Star Wars. The Empire was able to walk right up (literally, because they brought no air support... another stupid move) to it and blast it. The blaster cannons on the AT-ATs were able to pierce the shield, but the combined firepower of the Death Squadron Star Destroyers would have had no effect? From Return we know that you can't just waltz through a deflector shield too (the shuttle needed it deactivated in the beginning of the movie and the fighters had to avoid it during the Battle of Endor).
It doesn't show an inconsistency at all. The shield was a large theatre shield that protected a section of the world, and it was powerful enough to deflect any bombardment. But they could walk through it, just like the Droid Army that could waltz through the Gungan shield.
There are different types of shields in Star Wars.
Han could be referring to the Stormtrooper Academy (whatever its canon name is). Han was an officer cadet before becoming and a smuggler and it was during that time that he first met Chewie.
squidhills wrote: I can't refute the other points, but I can refute these:
Ground assault... General Veers: "Com-scan has detected an energy shield protecting a region of the sixth planet in the system. The shield is strong enough to repel any bombardment." Follower by Vader making disparaging remarks about Admiral Ozzel and "field promoting" Captain Piett.
That shows the inconsistency of deflector shields in Star Wars. The Empire was able to walk right up (literally, because they brought no air support... another stupid move) to it and blast it. The blaster cannons on the AT-ATs were able to pierce the shield, but the combined firepower of the Death Squadron Star Destroyers would have had no effect? From Return we know that you can't just waltz through a deflector shield too (the shuttle needed it deactivated in the beginning of the movie and the fighters had to avoid it during the Battle of Endor).
The shield on Endor was covering a section of the planet. It didn't extend to ground level. The At-Ats didn't pierce the shield. They walked under it.
The shield in Return surrounded the Death Star, and extended down to the planet around the region that housed the shield generator. Either it did extend to ground level, or flying down the shield 'tunnel' was the normal flight path for incoming craft, and to do otherwise would have aroused suspicion.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LordofHats wrote: Han could be referring to the Stormtrooper Academy (whatever its canon name is). Han was an officer cadet before becoming and a smuggler and it was during that time that he first met Chewie.
From the look on his face, and where they're standing, I think it's fairly obvious he's referring to the Falcon.
When Luke says, "you have that power, too," he could be talking to a niece or nephew.
I would strongly suspect this to be the case. I don't know, I just see somehow, they'll explain the Luke has found some archival knowledge of the old Order, and as he's the only "Jedi" remaining, is trying to rebuild it; thus, is not married and does not have kids. Which would mean that one of the new characters is probably Han/Leia's child
Daisy Ridley is the incestuous bastard child belonging to Luke and Leia (ala Jofferey in Game of Thrones), that they conceived while Han was in carbonite. When they decided to go thaw him out they dropped her off on a backwater crap-hole so no one would find out, and now she's all grown up.
I'm a bit slow to the punch on this one having avoided all other SW teasers and chat since the announcement of SW:The Force Awakens but I had to take a peek at this when the damned BBC showed Chewie and Han in the Falcon.
MAN, I LOVED THAT.
I've watched it 4 time since getting into work now and I still have chills running up my back.
I hate pirating but if our chums in North Korea could do the business and release this ASAP to the net then that would be great.
I'll buy all the Cinema Tickets/DVDs/toys/poster when they're finally released to make up for it..........honestly George/Uncle Walt.
... Gonna assume that was a "spare" vader helmet or something ? Or has that person been to Endor ?
.. One gathers that the desert world is indeed not Tatooine..... did kinda wonder if it was in fact Endor or at least Endor after the 2nd Deathstar and all the rest of the space battle came crashing down onto it and turned it into an irradiated wasteland
Can you feel it? There has been an awakening… it’s as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in joy. A new trailer for ‘Star Wars: The Force Awakens’ has been unleashed and - much to the relief of fans around the world - it’s magnificent.
Watch it for yourself below.
This new teaser reveals a lot more of ‘Episode VII’ than the first trailer, so there’s a lot to process. Here’s everything we spotted in the new trailer. Is there anything we missed?
Fallen Empire
The first shot of the trailer reveals a downed Star Destroyer but also a crashed X-Wing too which suggests both the rebels and the Empire suffered serious losses in the years following ‘Return of the Jedi’.
Family affair
Mark Hamill’s voice over hints that we’ll be meeting a new member of the Skywalker clan, presumably Daisy Ridley’s character Rey as you see a female hand being handed a lightsaber. We’re guessing this is the daughter of either Luke or Leia (could Han Solo be the father?!) - “The force is strong in my family, my father has it, I have it, my sister has it, you have that power too.”
Update: It’s now been confirmed that the voice over is actually lifted from ‘Return of the Jedi’
Vader
Here’s Vader’s destroyed helmet. Early rumours suggested the lead villain of the film is a collector of Sith and Jedi artefacts. How they retrieved this from his funeral pyre on Endor is a mystery yet to be solved.
Old pals
This must be Luke Skywalker; the robot hand is a dead giveaway. We’re not sure where this is supposed to be but R2-D2 is there to keep his old master company.
CGI character
The person handing the lightsaber over appears to be a CGI or animatronic creation with orange skin, so we assume this is Lupita Nyong’o’s character as she’s long rumoured to be playing a mo-capped role. It looks like she’s passing the weapon to Rey, but it could just as easily be Leia.
Recognise the lightsaber?
It’s the lightsaber passed on to Luke by Obi Wan in ‘A New Hope’. Luke lost it when his hand was chopped off by Vader on Bespin in ‘Empire Strikes Back’, so how did it end up here? Is this what drives the plot forward?
A squadron of X-Wings, led by Oscar Isaac’s badass pilot Poe Dameron, swoop low over a lake on a mystery temperate planet.
Here we get another brief look at Kylo Ren wielding his now infamous cross-blade lightsaber. You can see Stormtroopers behind him in what looks like an encampment.
Now we see Rey and John Boyega’s Finn running away from a TIE fighter in the distance, with the adorable BB-8 trailing behind. Rey is a scavenger, could this junkyard be her home?
Here’s our first look at Kylo Ren’s face up close. He wears a mask, but we think it’s Adam Driver underneath the costume. Again, he’s backed up by Stormtroopers and appears to be rounding people up.
This is one of our favourite shots in the trailer. A mysterious figure on the stage is addressing hundreds of Stormtroopers with a huge red banner behind him.
You can see a new type of trooper in the distance with what looks like a flamethrower, and you can also see the new, cool looking black TIE Fighters on the left too. Who is commanding the troops? We don’t know yet.
Now we get another awesome action shot showing some TIE Fighters attacking Storm Troopers on some sort of huge space ship. One of the good guys must have stolen it, could it be why John Boyega’s character is disguised as a Stormtrooper?
This fearsome looking chrome Stormtrooper is said to be the character played by Game of Thrones star Gwendoline Christie, codenamed by rumour sites as Captain Phasma. But where is she? The walls look like a cross between a cave and a Death Star.
New droid BB-8 stole the show at the ‘Force Awakens’ panel announcement and here he is now on the Millennium Falcon, looking rather sheepish.
Rey offering Finn a helping hand. These two are leads in the new film so expect to see a lot more of these in the coming months.
This final sequence must be linked to the chase we saw in the first trailer as we see TIE Fighters chasing the Millennium Falcon into the belly of a huge downed space ship. It looks like an upturned Super Star Destroyer.
And this is the money shot we were all waiting for. Han Solo and Chewbacca back in action for the first time in 32. “We’re home” says Han to Chewie. You certainly are, and boy have we missed you!
The first full length image of a ‘Star Wars: The Force Awakens’ Stormtrooper has been revealed. Check it out below.
The image comes courtesy of the official programme for Star Wars Celebration, the huge official fan convention happening this weekend in Anaheim, California. Fan site Star Wars Underworld posted the photo on Instagram ahead of the show’s official opening later today.
The Stormtrooper costume has been upgraded since it last appeared on screen in ‘Star Wars - Episode VI: Return of the Jedi’, most noticeably the helmet which appears to be much sleeker and streamlined than previous iterations.
You’ll also notice that the new armour now has a pistol holster attached to the thigh armour plate, presumably for a hand held blaster
Star Wars Celebration kicks off later today with a ‘Star Wars: The Force Awakens’ panel, hosted by director JJ Abrams and producer Kathleen Kennedy. The event, which many expect will be used to debut a brand new trailer, will be livestreamed from 6pm on the official Star Wars Facebook page here.
Hopefully the new trailer will be available to watch online shortly after and if it is, you can expect to see it right here on Yahoo Movies.
‘Star Wars: The Force Awakens’ is coming to cinemas on 18 December, 2015. Watch the first teaser trailer below.
reds8n wrote: did kinda wonder if it was in fact Endor or at least Endor after the 2nd Deathstar and all the rest of the space battle came crashing down onto it and turned it into an irradiated wasteland
reds8n wrote: You''ll rue those words when Ewok Cannibal Holocaust -- in 3D ! -- comes out in 2019 !
I don't know if this is true, but I read on a film forum that Return of the Jedi was Lucas' take on the Vietnam war, and that the Ewoks were the Vietcong
I will never support the Disneywars. I don't care what Lucas said, I count the EU. It's important. If Lucas and all the idiots at Disney just want ignore that, then may the Yuuzhen Vong obliterate them.
Explanation of what ticked my off most along with some star wars history (massive EU spoilers) Kinda rambled on a bit about the Legacy Era, but it's my favorite so there.
Spoiler:
Chewie is DEAD. By the time Han would be that old Chewie would have been long dead. Yuuzhen Vong blew up a planet with him on it!
Jacen Solo (oldest of the 3 Han/Leia kids)Turns sith, kills Luke's wife Mara Jade (formerly the Emperor's Hand) and Palpatine was resurrected TWICE. The war didn't end with the explosion of the Death Star. But Palpatine was dead for good and the Empire was a divided mess with little to no power in the galaxy as a whole.
Only 25 years after the Death Star the Yuuzhen Vong invaded the galaxy. So in the movies based 30 years after the 1st death of the Emperor, they should be fighting the Yuuzhen Vong still.
The Empire only becomes a large force ruling most of the galaxy about 80-100 years AFTER the Death Star. And even then, the Uniforms for stormtroopers are pretty much the same. The This new design makes it look like the storm troopers are crying.
The new Empire under Roan Fel supported the Jedi and worked alongside them. It even had Knights! Roan Fel had a whole force of Imperial Knights. Trained in the way of the lightside but more of a mass of Grey Jedi. Not Sith by any means but not as pure as Jedi. Later the Sith Dark Krayt along with his new sith order, usurped the Emperor and took over the throne. Fel escaped and with units loyal to him battles against the Krayt Empire. Whipid Jedi master K'khruk and Jedi Master Traa'sa, (who were in the clone wars, yes the clone wars they're that old) are leaders of the Jedi council in a secret temple. A second Jedi purge had been put into effect by Darth Krayt, though this one was far less successful than the previous one. Krayt is/was Jedi Knight A'sharrad Hett. Cade Skywalker is the Anti-hero of the story of star wars Legacy.
It's stupid, it's dumb, I'm sure it'll be good. But I sure as heaven won't be considering it cannon.
angelofvengeance wrote: @Overlord Thraka: That's why they left the EU alone in the first place. Cause the EU nerds would kick off if they fiddled with it.
Or more importantly, the VAST majority of people who are going to see this have never touched a page of the EU and they don't exactly feel like alienating half the audience before the movies even out.
Also, why am I in this topic? I don't even like starwars..
Ruglud wrote: Couple of interesting articles on Yahoo today - first breaks down the teaser trailer #2, second talks about the new Stormtrooper armour...
Can you feel it? There has been an awakening… it’s as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in joy. A new trailer for ‘Star Wars: The Force Awakens’ has been unleashed and - much to the relief of fans around the world - it’s magnificent.
Watch it for yourself below.
This new teaser reveals a lot more of ‘Episode VII’ than the first trailer, so there’s a lot to process. Here’s everything we spotted in the new trailer. Is there anything we missed?
Fallen Empire
The first shot of the trailer reveals a downed Star Destroyer but also a crashed X-Wing too which suggests both the rebels and the Empire suffered serious losses in the years following ‘Return of the Jedi’.
Family affair
Mark Hamill’s voice over hints that we’ll be meeting a new member of the Skywalker clan, presumably Daisy Ridley’s character Rey as you see a female hand being handed a lightsaber. We’re guessing this is the daughter of either Luke or Leia (could Han Solo be the father?!) - “The force is strong in my family, my father has it, I have it, my sister has it, you have that power too.”
Update: It’s now been confirmed that the voice over is actually lifted from ‘Return of the Jedi’
Vader
Here’s Vader’s destroyed helmet. Early rumours suggested the lead villain of the film is a collector of Sith and Jedi artefacts. How they retrieved this from his funeral pyre on Endor is a mystery yet to be solved.
Old pals
This must be Luke Skywalker; the robot hand is a dead giveaway. We’re not sure where this is supposed to be but R2-D2 is there to keep his old master company.
CGI character
The person handing the lightsaber over appears to be a CGI or animatronic creation with orange skin, so we assume this is Lupita Nyong’o’s character as she’s long rumoured to be playing a mo-capped role. It looks like she’s passing the weapon to Rey, but it could just as easily be Leia.
Recognise the lightsaber?
It’s the lightsaber passed on to Luke by Obi Wan in ‘A New Hope’. Luke lost it when his hand was chopped off by Vader on Bespin in ‘Empire Strikes Back’, so how did it end up here? Is this what drives the plot forward?
A squadron of X-Wings, led by Oscar Isaac’s badass pilot Poe Dameron, swoop low over a lake on a mystery temperate planet.
Here we get another brief look at Kylo Ren wielding his now infamous cross-blade lightsaber. You can see Stormtroopers behind him in what looks like an encampment.
Now we see Rey and John Boyega’s Finn running away from a TIE fighter in the distance, with the adorable BB-8 trailing behind. Rey is a scavenger, could this junkyard be her home?
Here’s our first look at Kylo Ren’s face up close. He wears a mask, but we think it’s Adam Driver underneath the costume. Again, he’s backed up by Stormtroopers and appears to be rounding people up.
This is one of our favourite shots in the trailer. A mysterious figure on the stage is addressing hundreds of Stormtroopers with a huge red banner behind him.
You can see a new type of trooper in the distance with what looks like a flamethrower, and you can also see the new, cool looking black TIE Fighters on the left too. Who is commanding the troops? We don’t know yet.
Now we get another awesome action shot showing some TIE Fighters attacking Storm Troopers on some sort of huge space ship. One of the good guys must have stolen it, could it be why John Boyega’s character is disguised as a Stormtrooper?
This fearsome looking chrome Stormtrooper is said to be the character played by Game of Thrones star Gwendoline Christie, codenamed by rumour sites as Captain Phasma. But where is she? The walls look like a cross between a cave and a Death Star.
New droid BB-8 stole the show at the ‘Force Awakens’ panel announcement and here he is now on the Millennium Falcon, looking rather sheepish.
Rey offering Finn a helping hand. These two are leads in the new film so expect to see a lot more of these in the coming months.
This final sequence must be linked to the chase we saw in the first trailer as we see TIE Fighters chasing the Millennium Falcon into the belly of a huge downed space ship. It looks like an upturned Super Star Destroyer.
And this is the money shot we were all waiting for. Han Solo and Chewbacca back in action for the first time in 32. “We’re home” says Han to Chewie. You certainly are, and boy have we missed you!
The first full length image of a ‘Star Wars: The Force Awakens’ Stormtrooper has been revealed. Check it out below.
The image comes courtesy of the official programme for Star Wars Celebration, the huge official fan convention happening this weekend in Anaheim, California. Fan site Star Wars Underworld posted the photo on Instagram ahead of the show’s official opening later today.
The Stormtrooper costume has been upgraded since it last appeared on screen in ‘Star Wars - Episode VI: Return of the Jedi’, most noticeably the helmet which appears to be much sleeker and streamlined than previous iterations.
You’ll also notice that the new armour now has a pistol holster attached to the thigh armour plate, presumably for a hand held blaster
Star Wars Celebration kicks off later today with a ‘Star Wars: The Force Awakens’ panel, hosted by director JJ Abrams and producer Kathleen Kennedy. The event, which many expect will be used to debut a brand new trailer, will be livestreamed from 6pm on the official Star Wars Facebook page here.
Hopefully the new trailer will be available to watch online shortly after and if it is, you can expect to see it right here on Yahoo Movies.
‘Star Wars: The Force Awakens’ is coming to cinemas on 18 December, 2015. Watch the first teaser trailer below.
You know, I actually think the second "sith" isn't actually Kylo Ren. Unless he gets a different lightsabre since the sabre in that scene completely lacks a crossguard.
angelofvengeance wrote: @Overlord Thraka: That's why they left the EU alone in the first place. Cause the EU nerds would kick off if they fiddled with it.
On the contrary, I would love it if the new star wars movies were detailing the Yuuzhen Vong war, for the ongoing war with the weakening empire. What I DON'T like is them pretending like it doesn't exist.
Also, just though I'd throw this out there, Stormtrooper armor only can defend against glancing blaster and melee blows. It's a excellent survival suit, but doesn't convey the protection people might think. On the other hand, Clone Trooper armor is FAR more protective. It can stand up to direct hits from blaster rifles in some cases. That's why clones don't die so much as stormies do. Clones are better in every way.
Overlord Thraka wrote: I will never support the Disneywars. I don't care what Lucas said, I count the EU. It's important. If Lucas and all the idiots at Disney just want ignore that, then may the Yuuzhen Vong obliterate them.
You realize that 95% of the EU sucks major ass right?
It was a steaming turd pile that needed to get dumped.
Sure, the comics were ok. Not great overall. And not enough to redeem the EU.
This sums up the EU, and why it needs to go.
As for the Vong...
They were the final culmination of the EU constantly One-upping itself with ludicrously, and stupidly, powerful enemies. They were bad cliche super villains, and not in the good way.
They were uninteresting, too OP, and didn't fit with the setting.
I am glad the EU is gone too. It was bad and should feel bad. There were a couple of great and brilliant stories in there, but the vast majority was like really badly written fanfiction on the internet. Of course, despite no longer being canon, nothing will stop people from still reading and enjoying the good EU stories. Overall I think they made a good decision and I am very excited to see what direction they are going now. The trailer looks awesome at least.
Grey Templar wrote: Sure, the comics were ok. Not great overall. And not enough to redeem the EU.
This sums up the EU, and why it needs to go.
As for the Vong...
They were the final culmination of the EU constantly One-upping itself with ludicrously, and stupidly, powerful enemies. They were bad cliche super villains, and not in the good way.
They were uninteresting, too OP, and didn't fit with the setting.
I respectfully disagree. Have you read any of the comics to come out in the last Decade? Knights of the Old republic, Legacy, Dozens of comic series detailing stuff inbetween the battle of Naboo and the end of the clone wars. (Including my favorite Jedi Quinlan Vos). And one of the newer comics called 'Invasion' dealing with the Yuuzhen Vong. My almost irrational love of the Yuuzhen vong comes entirely from those comics. I'd suggest taking a look. All worth a read. Especially Legacy and Invasion
And yes that image of Han Solo battling a giant Weasel? Ferret? Otter? Stoat?
For everyone dumping on the Vong, as we found out from Celebration today, if Clone Wars had carried on any longer there would have been an episode that saw a Vong scout appearing.
It's not like Mouse Troopers are going to come to your house and take your comic books away from you, and they are not going to have big EU book burning events at Disney World.
All new movies are simply free to come up with their own ideas, which may or may not include EU plot points, and are not restricted by anything that previously happened post-ROTJ. The old movies are canon, the new movies will be canon, the new movies will be new stories, stuff that was in the old EU can be included but doesn't have to be, and new stuff can contradict old EU stories (which the EU did all the time anyway).
That's it.
Love the EU? Awesome, you can still get the books. Nobody will lobotomize you in your sleep and force you to forget it exists. But new movies won't be based on it.
d-usa wrote: It's not like Mouse Troopers are going to come to your house and take your comic books away from you, and they are not going to have big EU book burning events at Disney World.
All new movies are simply free to come up with their own ideas, which may or may not include EU plot points, and are not restricted by anything that previously happened post-ROTJ. The old movies are canon, the new movies will be canon, the new movies will be new stories, stuff that was in the old EU can be included but doesn't have to be, and new stuff can contradict old EU stories (which the EU did all the time anyway).
That's it.
Love the EU? Awesome, you can still get the books. Nobody will lobotomize you in your sleep and force you to forget it exists. But new movies won't be based on it.
Problem is though, D-USA, the new movies will be exactly the same as the original trilogy - except Solo and Skywalker will be running around with Zimmer frames.
In the first film, the rebels will defeat a great evil, or kill a Sith Lord, in the second, the empire strikes back , and the good guys are separated, and in the third final, an epic battle will happen and the rebels will triumph...again!
Now, these kind of clichés are true for 99.9% of all books and films, but with star wars, the effect is more pronounced.
Sure, we'll have a few nods to the originals, sure we'll have some in-jokes about the age of the older members., and in the end, It'll boil down to cosy, tension free, films.
Yes, I'll watch it, and enjoy it, but is star wars the be all and end of of sci-fi? Not for me. Daft, entertaining adventures.
You know, I actually think the second "sith" isn't actually Kylo Ren. Unless he gets a different lightsabre since the sabre in that scene completely lacks a crossguard.
I think it is, I think we are just seeing the saber from an angle where the cross guard disappears. If you look around the base of the blade, you can see some irregularities that match what the cross guard would look like point-on.
Manchu wrote: Maybe Han and Chewie travel to Jakku in search of the Falcon. Seems Rey lives there and might help them find the ship and repair her. I guess it is possible that Vader's helmet also ended up there and Kylo Ren sends Imperial forces to check it out. Finn seems to defect and teams up with Rey.
If we're going to engage in some mild plot speculation, I have a feeling that a good alternate title for the film might be "Star Wars 7: The Search for Luke." Just kinda feels like there'll be a lot of questing going on, maybe on multiple fronts, with Luke either being the object or at the nexus (or both).
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: I don't know if anybody else noticed this, but when I watched the trailer for the 17th time
I noticed a funny turn of phrase.
When Luke was talking about the force, he mentioned he has it, his sister has it etc etc
and then
MY FATHER HAS IT...
Yep...I thought the same thing. Force ghost, anyone?
Grey Templar wrote: Sure, the comics were ok. Not great overall. And not enough to redeem the EU.
P-shaw.
Jaxxon FTW.
I bought that issue off the newsstand and still have it. Yes, I'm really old now.
gorgon wrote: I have a feeling that a good alternate title for the film might be "Star Wars 7: The Search for Luke." Just kinda feels like there'll be a lot of questing going on, maybe on multiple fronts, with Luke either being the object or at the nexus (or both).
I have the same feeling, like everyone will be looking for Luke because he has the answers.
For those who are unaware of Jakku or its significance...you're not alone.
But, apparently EA and Disney have something planned to make it so that in the month leading up to the release of "Star Wars: The Force Awakens" people who have bought Star Wars: Battlefront will be able to get a feel for the planet and the battle between The New Republic and Imperial holdouts.
"Battlefront" will also include a free downloadable level available two weeks before "Star Wars: The Force Awakens" opens in theaters Dec. 18. It's set on Jakku, the battle-scarred desert planet glimpsed in "Force Awakens" teasers. The expansion, dubbed "Battle of Jakku," will explore the moment following "Return of the Jedi" when the New Republic confronted Imperial holdouts on the previously unseen Outer Rim enclave.
Aye.. to badly misquote the joker from the first batman.. 'I never liked the Yuuzhen Vong... I'm glad they're dead'.
Although I did find I'd been enjoying Rebels, but in all honesty have only watched as many episodes as I have as the boys are watching them. I did geek out at Ahsoka's return mind.
So are you arguing that the OT were cozy, tension-free films?
Yes I am. There was no way the death star wasn't getting blown up, and there was no way the Emperor wasn't getting defeated.
They pulled a rabbit out of the hat in ESB, but then reverted back to safe mode when they drew back from the implications at hand. How great would the story have been had Luke taken up his father's offer? Imagine the implications of that...
I was thinking Jakku might have more than one ecosystem but that blurb describes it as a desert planet.
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Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: There was no way the death star wasn't getting blown up, and there was no way the Emperor wasn't getting defeated.
Oh I agree. Only a small child would raise the question "will Luke survive?" and not be able to answer it. Thankfully, that is not what drives the tension or excitement of the film.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: How great would the story have been had Luke taken up his father's offer? Imagine the implications of that...
That could definitely be a great story. It is pretty much the story of what happened to Vader from RotS onward. So, in effect, that story is also told. The end of that story is the part that involves Luke. So if you have Luke join Vader and they kill the Emperor then the only direction that story can really go is, Luke changes his mind and redeems Vader or Luke's child/niece/nephew comes along and saves him. Luke rejecting Vader's offer cuts that needlessly drawn out development without losing anything thematically.
Manchu wrote: I was thinking Jakku might have more than one ecosystem but that blurb describes it as a desert planet.
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Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: There was no way the death star wasn't getting blown up, and there was no way the Emperor wasn't getting defeated.
Oh I agree. Only a small child would raise the question "will Luke survive?" and not be able to answer it. Thankfully, that is not what drives the tension or excitement of the film.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: How great would the story have been had Luke taken up his father's offer? Imagine the implications of that...
That could definitely be a great story. It is pretty much the story of what happened to Vader from RotS onward. So, in effect, that story is also told. The end of that story is the part that involves Luke. So if you have Luke join Vader and they kill the Emperor then the only direction that story can really go is, Luke changes his mind and redeems Vader or Luke's child/niece/nephew comes along and saves him. Luke rejecting Vader's offer cuts that needlessly drawn out development without losing anything thematically.
His sister could have saved him. They were twins after all...
I'm not knocking Star wars, I've enjoyed the films, and I love the video games, but the potential was there for a more nuanced trilogy. Think shades of grey (not 50!! ) instead of black and white.
Would it have made as much money? Probably not, but it would have been bloody good.
I think the OT as-is contains about as much moral nuance (which is to say, hardly any) as it requires/can bear. If you want more nuance, look at the prequels. And despair.
One of the coolest things I have read about these new movies is that they are moving back towards using real sets and props, puppetry, animatronics rather than CGI for as much of the filming as possible.
Obviously space battles and whatnot will still be CGI but a big thing for me of the original Star Wars (and I think probably a part of why it did so well) was how 'real' the whole thing felt. At no point did you feel like you were looking at a guy in a suit. For large parts of the prequels, especially with the larger battles, as good as they looked it just felt like you were watching a cut scene from a computer game.
angelofvengeance wrote: @Overlord Thraka: That's why they left the EU alone in the first place. Cause the EU nerds would kick off if they fiddled with it.
On the contrary, I would love it if the new star wars movies were detailing the Yuuzhen Vong war, for the ongoing war with the weakening empire. What I DON'T like is them pretending like it doesn't exist.
Also, just though I'd throw this out there, Stormtrooper armor only can defend against glancing blaster and melee blows. It's a excellent survival suit, but doesn't convey the protection people might think. On the other hand, Clone Trooper armor is FAR more protective. It can stand up to direct hits from blaster rifles in some cases. That's why clones don't die so much as stormies do. Clones are better in every way.
Manchu wrote: Pitch for new Yoda film ... 50 Shades of Green.
I think the OT as-is contains about as much moral nuance (which is to say, hardly any) as it requires/can bear. If you want more nuance, look at the prequels. And despair.
I did despair! I'm still despairing!
Probably going OT, but the problem is I'm too old.
When you were young, you see everything in black and white. The British were the good guys, the Germans were the bad guys. Every war film was the same.
Of course, when you get older, you discover not every German was a Nazi, so you look at history of that era in a different light. Sorry for Godwin the thread.
It's the same with Star Wars for me.
The rebels don't feel like rebels anymore. Han Solo was my hero years ago, but when you get older you wonder why a smuggler, a rebel, an outlaw, is accepting a medal at the end of a new hope, when really, he should be robbing the place and flying off in the Falcon. Having kidnapped the Princess before hand
Pacific wrote: At no point did you feel like you were looking at a guy in a suit.
Apart from all the guys in suits
Except none of them were actually in suits. ALL the Clone Trooper armor in the prequels was painted on with CG. Every time you see clones in the PT, that's a bunch of guys in blue body socks standing on a featureless green set.
Pacific wrote: At no point did you feel like you were looking at a guy in a suit.
Apart from all the guys in suits
Except none of them were actually in suits. ALL the Clone Trooper armor in the prequels was painted on with CG. Every time you see clones in the PT, that's a bunch of guys in blue body socks standing on a featureless green set.
Pacific wrote: One of the coolest things I have read about these new movies is that they are moving back towards using real sets and props, puppetry, animatronics rather than CGI for as much of the filming as possible.
Obviously space battles and whatnot will still be CGI but a big thing for me of the original Star Wars (and I think probably a part of why it did so well) was how 'real' the whole thing felt. At no point did you feel like you were looking at a guy in a suit. For large parts of the prequels, especially with the larger battles, as good as they looked it just felt like you were watching a cut scene from a computer game.
Space battles in The Force Awakens were supposedly filmed using practical props with a CGI background, just like Christopher Nolan did in Interstellar. They had various props on display at Celebration this week.
Grey Templar wrote: Hmmm, the name "Resistance" seems to imply that the Rebellion has yet to reestablish the Republic.
Interesting...
Yep, my thoughts exactly -- at least in this part of the galaxy, because the name "First Order" implies the Empire is not the monolithic power from the OT.
Star Wars obsession is a totally natural and not at all life-threatening condition, but it will make you fixate on minutiae. For die-hard fans, Thursday was a day full of Star Wars minutiae to mull over. In addition to an action-packed second teaser trailer, we got a live glimpse of the rolling BB-8 droid in action.
And it wasn't in CGI.
For both Star Wars fans and robot fanatics, this was a revelation. The super-fast rolling robot had only been glimpsed in the first trailer, which was released late last year. But before a jam-packed, enthusiastic crowd at the Star Wars Celebration convention in Anaheim, California, a real BB-8 rolled out in front of Star Wars: Episode VII director J.J. Abrams and producer Kathleen Kennedy.
It has a robotic ball for a body, topped with an equally robotic head that not only doesn't fall off but also lets the body move freely below it.
As the stunned crowd looked on, Abrams explained the thinking behind the robot. "There were a lot of discussions about how having a CGI BB-8 would be so much easier for shooting," he said. "But we also knew it would be so much better for the film, for the actors, for the set, for the look of it, if it were performed. Neil Scanlan and his unbelievable team ... built and puppeteered BB-8 in the movie and did an extraordinary job, and it was better for the actors and it was better for the film itself."
As he spoke, BB-8 looked about and rolled back and forth across the stage, at one point circling around the R2-D2 droid that had rolled out moments earlier. There were no strings, but we knew it was some kind of remote-controlled robot, and something very special.
Kennedy said Disney Chairman Bob Iger "found the company that helped us discover the technology of what you're seeing right now. Because we now have BB-8 operating on its own, thanks to Bob."
So how does BB-8 work?
We can guess at half of it. The ball is obviously a giant remote-control robot puppet very much like one called Sphero. Sphero, from Orbotix, is a self-contained robot ball that communicates with a smartphone app via Bluetooth. You can run it in any direction using the in-app virtual joystick. It's incredibly responsive. Even without a camera in it to see where you're going, you can use line-of-sight and information from the robot about which way it thinks is forward and back to guide it precisely. Watch a video of Sphero in action and it may remind you a little bit of BB-8.
But what about the head?
BB-8's dome-shaped cap is clearly not attached — otherwise there's no way the robot ball could move freely. But it is holding on somehow. The leading theory is magnets; they could be used to allow the cap to float a millimeter or so off the surface of BB-8's main ball. However, that would not account for how it would stay on top of the moving ball.
Here's my best guess. The cap is a second robot; it, too, is remote controlled — that's how the head "looks" around — but its main job is to stay on top of the ball. So inside the cap you might find a gyroscope, which tells the robot which way is up. It may also have an accelerometer to detect motion. Underneath it wouldn't have magnetic levitation technology, but rather a set of magnetic wheels that roll rapidly to keep it in place. It knows which way to roll based on the sensor info.
"That could be the case, but it could also use the wheels to accelerate in a given direction,” said Ralph Hollis, a research professor in the Carnegie Mellon Robotics Institute and the father of the Ballbot.
A ballbot uses a regular ball — and a lot of robotic technology to balance on top of the ball, and even move the entire robot by rolling the ball underneath. Hollis thinks my theory is possible, but told me it's also just as likely that the wheels in BB-8's head are, in fact, driving the entire robot, so BB-8's big ball is the dumb ball underneath.
The technology might work something like the robots in this IEEE Spectrum video.
"But I believe the BB-8 is more than just that," Hollis added. He agrees that inside BB-8's large ball is probably another robot system that rights itself as the BB-8 head moves about.
This is naturally all guesswork, and Hollis reminded me that we could both be wrong. But somehow, I think these are the droids we've been looking for.
Grey Templar wrote: Hmmm, the name "Resistance" seems to imply that the Rebellion has yet to reestablish the Republic.
Interesting...
The REALLY interesting part is that Battlefront has a DLC slated for December 8th(December 1st if you preorder the game) which adds the battle which devastates the planet we saw in the trailer into the game, for free.
And the promotional tidbits for that DLC specifically state it is a battle between "The New Republic" and "Imperial holdouts".
Ensis Ferrae wrote: And after watching the trailer some (a lot) more... I still maintain that Solo has some sort of Force attunement...
He'd call it luck...
WotC's miniatures game actually did give Han a couple of Force points (which, aside from 'casting' force abilities (which he didn't have) could be used in that game for re-rolls and extra movement) to represent his 'luck'.
It's possible that "First Order" could be a unit designation as well, rather than a faction one. Like 501st Stormtrooper rather than Galactic Empire Stormtrooper.
Those are both interesting possibilities. With the EU in mind, I was thinking the First Order could be a splinter faction dedicated to some specific quest: in this case, seemingly, the search for Sith relics associated with Darth Vader.
Manchu wrote: Those are both interesting possibilities. With the EU in mind, I was thinking the First Order could be a splinter faction dedicated to some specific quest: in this case, seemingly, the search for Sith relics associated with Darth Vader.
Wouldn't they be more after relics/artifacts from Sidious or the older Masters, or do you think they would draw a direct connection between Vader and this new Sith dude which would explain him going after "Vader stuff" specifically?
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Grey Templar wrote: It could also refer to the new ruling class of the Empire.
I think it could also be a sort of Tau-like set up, or something similar to the Chiss in the novel "Outbound Flight", where there are multiple "equal" ruling Orders that are numbered, even if, in theory their numbering is irrelevant (ie, 1st Order is no more important or more "equal" than the 3rd or 4th Orders)
Manchu wrote: Those are both interesting possibilities. With the EU in mind, I was thinking the First Order could be a splinter faction dedicated to some specific quest: in this case, seemingly, the search for Sith relics associated with Darth Vader.
Wouldn't they be more after relics/artifacts from Sidious or the older Masters, or do you think they would draw a direct connection between Vader and this new Sith dude which would explain him going after "Vader stuff" specifically?
My guess is, the First Order wants these relics to assert their claim as the legitimate heirs to the Empire.
Manchu wrote: OMG I have never been more grateful to Disney in my life. This alone makes replacing an good show (Clone Wars) with a terrible one (Rebels) okay.
Internet Hyperbole aside, no, it really doesn't Filoni revealed a bunch of stuff for the incomplete finale of Clone Wars, including episodes that would have taken place during and after Episode III. It would have been amazing.
Clone Wars was a very mixed bag that hit its highest points dealing with the clones themselves. The seventh season arc about Tup was really well done. Conversely, season seven also showed us Clone Wars at it's worst, when it delved into the Force: the navel-gazing arc beginning with "Voices". I'm sure the series, had it continued, could have churned out more cool clone stories and more hamfisted Jedi stories. But more is not always better (especially more of a bad thing). Tup's arc, for example, beautifully sums up the tension between the clones' experience as individual sentients with their own values and their ultimate destiny as disposable pawns. There's really no need to do more of that. There's certainly no need for more crappy allegories about the Force.
I suspect those crappy allegories were driven precisely by the need to manufacture more SW, just like the mind numbing return of Darth Maul. But the most infamous example of seizing on just about anything for the sake of pumping out more product is the Yuuzhan Vong. If one had appeared in CW, then their existence would have survived as canon past the Disney acquisition. If that had happened, of course, Disney would not be required to do anything further with them. And of course, Disney could at any moment throw them back into the mix. They own the IP, after all. But I am really hoping like hell that they don't. As things stand, the whole Yuuzhan Vong disaster was just another bad dream.
Clone Wars was good but its done.. and with the direction they have gone it I can't see it coming back.. there are some positives in that though... and perhaps characters who may not have made it all the way to the end may well turn up in Rebels.
Surprised folks haven't been enjoying Rebels tbh, for the first season its easily on par with Clone wars season 1.. and we've barely got a foot in the door. Characters are still key, and I'm enjoying the slow set up for the rebellion.
Ezra I admit is probably the most annoying thing in the show.. but he is developing, although I recall similar things being said about Ahsoka when she first arrived.
Hera, Kanan and Sabine have become fast faves in my household though, Zeb and Choppa are okay and the Inquisitor was a fair villain..and the last episode was an eye opener for how they were willing to end his arc in a kids show. Tarkin was also a great homage for the Peter Cushing fan in me.
Although without doubt Tano turning up is huge for me, as I really liked her character from Clone Wars.. and nullified a lot of minor quibbles with the show, just eager to see where they run with it now. I'm hoping they will bring back Ventress at some point.. and Bariss Offee down the road would lead to me loosing it in a good way.
Surprised folks haven't been enjoying Rebels tbh, for the first season its easily on par with Clone wars season 1
I've only seen the pilot so far (and only just got around to that last weekend) but I agree from what I've seen so far. It possibly feels like it's aimed at a slightly younger audience, but there was still enough in there to be entertaining.
Aye good point, it was the first example that came to my head.. but its likely to derail the thread with Firefly remarks.. I'll remove it.
As to Rebels, it definitely got stronger as the series went on.. some of the early ones are weaker overall, but you could see it developing on the screen each week.. I think I missed two episodes total.. but thanks to my boys saw most of them, everything from about episode 8.
I don't know if anybody else noticed this, but when I watched the trailer for the 17th time
I noticed a funny turn of phrase.
When Luke was talking about the force, he mentioned he has it, his sister has it etc etc
and then
MY FATHER HAS IT...
That's from ROTJ -- it's not new, just "pasted" on top of this trailer.
Does he mean that it's the fact they have used present tense (i.e. not "my father had it"), although assuming that could be the spirit that lives on - So Sebastian Shaw, or I assume now replaced by Hayden Christensen?
Or part of Vader's consciousness survived even his immolation on Endor, and is now back? Or the Emperor used the organic parts to make a back up to be activated in case of emergencies. Or... to go darker and more mature, Anakin was not the father! Obi-Wan put some horns on his Padawan.
Yoda, of course, lied to keep the council cover up going. And Obi-wan let Vader kill him because he had it coming, and he knew it. The reason Vader's back- 5 seconds after the cutscene of ROTJ, Yoda and Obiwan tell Vader and just laugh. Vader goes off and possesses a new body, or becomes a ghost mentor to a new Force sensitive person.
Alternatively- Luke is now married into a clan of Force sensitive folks, and the 'father' is his father-in-law.
The possibilities are as endless as they are implausible!
Ensis Ferrae wrote: And after watching the trailer some (a lot) more... I still maintain that Solo has some sort of Force attunement...
WotC's miniatures game actually did give Han a couple of Force points (which, aside from 'casting' force abilities (which he didn't have) could be used in that game for re-rolls and extra movement) to represent his 'luck'.
As a skirmish game, it was pretty interesting- I remember taking the Bacta Tank whenever points allowed it.
And at 15 points in a max-200 game, it was pretty damn cheap.
Just to give some context to "First Order", remember that in several sources including Rebels, the ideology of the Empire is referred to as "the New Order". Although most of what we know of the Sith of old is now non-canon, Palpatine does say in RotS "once more the Sith will rule the galaxy" and the databank refers to the "Sith Order", so Something Order is a bit of a trope when it comes to Sith empires. From what we know so far, the new Sith seem to seek out Vader's helmet so perhaps they're looking to learn as much about the Sith as Luke is looking to learn about the Jedi - and maybe they call themselves First Order to reflect that they seek to establish a Sith Order emulating the original, and for propaganda purposes may be bigging themselves up as surpassing Palpatine in their vehemence of doing so.
I'm very interested to see the geopolitics behind the factions - just how large and/or powerful is the First Order? If the good-guys call themselves La Résistance, that implies they're the underdogs and the First Order are either in charge or at least an occupation. A theory I have conceived based on what's been revealed about the Battle of Jakku is that there may well be a New Republic in charge of the galaxy, while the First Order are a rising threat acquiring territory and the Resistance is simply a local fight-back in said territory (possibly armed and supported by the New Republic?). Or, using Occam's Razor, it could just be the New Republic was either short-lived or there wasn't really one anyway, the Rebels simply renamed themselves that in overconfidence before getting their asses handed to them.
Supposedly, that's in-engine footage, so it should be pretty close (and from the handful of next-gen games I've seen, I can easily believe it'll look that good). The lack of Clone Wars era stuff and Space Battles hurt, but I'm still expecting great things from the game!
Not sure if they're keeping part of the EU here or not.
The Order was the name of the original group of force users. This group had several schisms, the worst of which ended in the Order splitting and the creation of the Jedi and Sith, respectively.
More good news for me - after checking the release dates, I'm glad to see that Spectre and Star Wars don't clash. Spectre out in early November, Stars Wars late December.
Paradigm wrote: Supposedly, that's in-engine footage, so it should be pretty close (and from the handful of next-gen games I've seen, I can easily believe it'll look that good). The lack of Clone Wars era stuff and Space Battles hurt, but I'm still expecting great things from the game!
It's not going to be that close. This happens all the time- that trailer wasn't even run on a PS4, it was pre-rendered and shown on a PC, and if you watch the frames, it can't even stay at a steady 30fps, it stutters all the way down to 20fps at times. But games do this literally every "in-engine" trailer. Just see Battlefield 3, Aliens Colonial Marines, Halo 4, etc.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: More good news for me - after checking the release dates, I'm glad to see that Spectre and Star Wars don't clash. Spectre out in early November, Stars Wars late December.
You're only allowed to see one movie a month?!? What a bummer!
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: More good news for me - after checking the release dates, I'm glad to see that Spectre and Star Wars don't clash. Spectre out in early November, Stars Wars late December.
You're only allowed to see one movie a month?!? What a bummer!
That's the same thing I though!
I'll see Star Wars opening day with my buddy and then I'll take my daughters later that weekend or sometime during the following week after school.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Looks like I was right about storm trooper armour changing, apology accepted from those who slammed me in that last thread haha
I am looking at your scootypuffjunior!
Yeah, although they certainly weren't making any attempts to say the planet is somewhere else with the trailer. You see a desert planet in a Star Wars movie you're going to assume its Tatooine.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: More good news for me - after checking the release dates, I'm glad to see that Spectre and Star Wars don't clash. Spectre out in early November, Stars Wars late December.
You're only allowed to see one movie a month?!? What a bummer!
Nobody likes a smart-ass
I love the Bond films, and the only way to ensure future Bond films is the financial success of Spectre.
If it was competing with Star Wars, it would make less money.
Rippy wrote: Looks like I was right about storm trooper armour changing, apology accepted from those who slammed me in that last thread haha
I am looking at your scootypuffjunior!
What do I owe you an apology for? You insisted it wasn't stormtrooper armor because "it looked different." I then explained to you that it is indeed stormtrooper armor and yes, it does look different:
Spoiler:
Rippy wrote: Also I think that dude at the start isn't wearing storm trooper armour, just similar looking armour.
ScootyPuffJunior wrote: He's wearing stormtrooper armor. The only thing that is unknown is whether he is actually a stormtrooper or impersonating one.
You then kept saying that the armor looks different and then you changed your tune slightly:
Rippy wrote: The back comes higher, there is no square thing, the pauldrons sit out more, the black part is more shown on top one under the arms.
you are right, it might be a different variant of armour, but just looks different.
I responded with:
ScootyPuffJunior wrote: Stormtrooper armor has changed in the last 30 years. This was revealed some time ago and then confirmed with the appearance of stormtroopers in the teaser.
Rippy wrote: my humblest of apologies for not being so specific, I meant have they come out and said he is wearing Storm Trooper armour, or is that fan made speculation. You seem to be quite hostile on something as trivial as mild speculation. I see that the armour does look a little different now, though I think that quick flashing part we see (yes even when paused) doesn't prove this. The new shoulder pads do look the same.
While he probably is in Storm Trooper armour, it doesn't hurt to speculate, does it?
I then explained it to you one last time:
ScootyPuffJunior wrote: I'm not being hostile, you're trying to figure out something that isn't there. There is nothing to speculate here: John Boyega is wearing stormtrooper armor, the guys in the dropship are stormtroopers, and stormtrooper armor in The Force Awakens is not the same as stormtrooper armor in the Original Trilogy. You keep bringing up how the new costume is different from the one we last saw 30 years ago as "proof" for your incorrect theory that John Boyega isn't wearing stormtrooper armor despite the fact that it has been explained that the costumes aren't the same. This is just like the guy a few pages ago that swore the X-wings we've been shown weren't X-wings even though they are. The costumes have changed: the stormtroopers don't look exactly the same, the Rebel pilots don't look exactly the same, the X-wings don't look exactly the same, and the Millennium Falcon doesn't look exactly the same.
Yeah, although they certainly weren't making any attempts to say the planet is somewhere else with the trailer. You see a desert planet in a Star Wars movie you're going to assume its Tatooine.
Actually, I may have to eat my words. Similarly, I believed the desert planet shown in the Battlefront trailer was Tatooine, but see the image below:
Notice the crashing Star Destroyer to the right? This may be Jakku. So if the Sandcrawler is anything to go by, there may be Jawas on Jakku after all.
Now this may be an interesting turn of phrase. We have had a few mentions that the line was from the old movie, but Mark could be teasing a little bit here:
Hamill was "cleared" to tell the packed house that he did record a voiceover specifically for the new teaser trailer, which debuted on Thursday during the Celebration kick-off panel.
In the teaser, we hear Luke's voice saying a familiar, but slightly altered line from "Return of the Jedi": "The force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. My sister has it. You have that power too."
He laughed and said that he kept messing up and saying: "My father had it."
Paradigm wrote: Ah, Tag and Bink. There's a piece of the EU I want as a film!
(I'm only half joking, I would genuinely watch it!)
I'm glad someone got it!
d-usa wrote: Now this may be an interesting turn of phrase. We have had a few mentions that the line was from the old movie, but Mark could be teasing a little bit here:
Hamill was "cleared" to tell the packed house that he did record a voiceover specifically for the new teaser trailer, which debuted on Thursday during the Celebration kick-off panel.
In the teaser, we hear Luke's voice saying a familiar, but slightly altered line from "Return of the Jedi": "The force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. My sister has it. You have that power too."
He laughed and said that he kept messing up and saying: "My father had it."
Yeah, although they certainly weren't making any attempts to say the planet is somewhere else with the trailer. You see a desert planet in a Star Wars movie you're going to assume its Tatooine.
Actually, I may have to eat my words. Similarly, I believed the desert planet shown in the Battlefront trailer was Tatooine, but see the image below:
Spoiler:
Notice the crashing Star Destroyer to the right? This may be Jakku. So if the Sandcrawler is anything to go by, there may be Jawas on Jakku after all.
And Boba Fett is still alive!
It should be Jakku. Part of the benefits of preordering the game is that you get to play on the Jakku map before the unwashed masses do. It's supposed to be take place just before the movie, IIRC.
Also, at least in the EU, sand crawlers were not a Jawa invention, but simply reused/recycled by them after they were left behind by others.
Hordini wrote: It makes sense that a tracked vehicle like a Sand Crawler could be useful on any desert planet.
It makes sense that a Sand Crawler would be on more than one planet.... IIRC, in a couple of the EU writings, they talk about the "original" owners of the Crawlers were actually a galactic mining company that, when the mines of Tatooine dried up, it was cheaper for them to ditch the equipment than to relocate it to another planet.
Hordini wrote: It makes sense that a tracked vehicle like a Sand Crawler could be useful on any desert planet.
It makes sense that a Sand Crawler would be on more than one planet.... IIRC, in a couple of the EU writings, they talk about the "original" owners of the Crawlers were actually a galactic mining company that, when the mines of Tatooine dried up, it was cheaper for them to ditch the equipment than to relocate it to another planet.
Might be Czerka. They were trying to mine Tatooine in Knights of the Old Republic and used vehicles quite similar to the sandcrawlers seen in the original.
Manchu wrote: Yeah there is a strong possibility Kyle Ren is a Seth wannabe, in which case that lightsaber really suits him.
I was doing some thinking about it and came to the conclusion that Sith don't really need instruction, at least nowhere near as much as a Jedi does.
Since they draw their power from emotion, a force adept could unknowingly draw upon the dark side of the force and gain its benefits. They may not know how they are doing it but it would be possible. They just learn that if they channel their fear or anger or hatred, then it makes them stronger and gives them abilities beyond a normal man, without needing to fully understand why or how.
Compare that to a Jedi, who draws power from being in balance, without emotion. Much harder to do as you're very unlikely to be in that state without trying to be, hence the need for more instruction and training in order to be able to use the force via the light side.
Fits with the lore, too, where the dark side is typically a faster route to power and so very seductive.
A fully trained Sith has much more command over the Dark Side (and vice versa) then someone just tapping into it. The Sith also have a code as well. Still, both are pretty dangerous.
I think you both make very strong points. As Yoda said, the dark side is a relatively quick and easy path to power. But there is a big difference between being Sith and being a frustrated, impatient, wrathful Force-sensitive being. My guess is Kylo Rene fits more into the latter category and is trying to play for political power in a splintered Empire by claiming to be the heir to the Sith.
Manchu wrote: I think you both make very strong points. As Yoda said, the dark side is a relatively quick and easy path to power. But there is a big difference between being Sith and being a frustrated, impatient, wrathful Force-sensitive being. My guess is Kylo Rene fits more into the latter category and is trying to play for political power in a splintered Empire by claiming to be the heir to the Sith.
Thing is, Kylo Ren seems to be a name rather than a title. But he also wears a mask. A good writer doesn't put any main character in a mask unless their true identity is an important point.
We've seen that the Sith have full on training academies at various points throughout the EU, and even when few Sith remain, their training system seems, perhaps even more intimate than the Jedi. A single master, a single apprentice, even if that apprentice is a master of the force in his own right, like Darth Vader.
I believe that when Yoda says the Dark Side is an easier access to more power, he's talking about several factors and in several different ways.
Please consider the following thoughts.
1. As mentioned force users emotions play a great deal in their use of the force. Consider our own emotions, when you're angry, you tend to select more forceful options, more quickly, and can likely be more effective when applying those violent options.
2. Wrath/Anger/Hate are the main focus we think of for Sith emotions, but Yoda applies hot headed behavior, impulsiveness as well. Being quick to anger and to courses of action can be very quickly successful in many situations, be it personal relationships or a military campaign, but it will also likely undermine or do damage to those same situations, by forcing a result without laying the foundation for that result. Ergo capturing large amounts of Russia without supplying your troops with winter combat gear and establishing supply solutions for an Army operating that far over land.
3. Consider professional martial artists and fighters, the Jedi are very closely modeled after these individuals in many regards, especially the Japanese Samurai, and you can find some Zen influences in much of Jedi teaching. The Jedi spend decades honing themselves into a master. The Sith, even fully trained, are more of a brawler in the street. Crude, brutal and effective. The former's resolve and fighting spirit comes from a calm steely discipline, and will not drain nearly as quickly as the latter's anger, and the former will not be nearly as incapacitated when the tank runs out.
That is not to say martial artists or Jedi can't get angry, or even use anger to their advantage. It's when you let your anger control and dominate your actions that it becomes a threat to individual in question.
Thing is, Kylo Ren seems to be a name rather than a title. But he also wears a mask. A good writer doesn't put any main character in a mask unless their true identity is an important point.
The mask creates a lot of possibilities. Most have assumed that it's Adam Driver behind the mask, but what if it's Domhnall Gleeson (and he is who most assume he is)? What if it's Hamill?
Then again, his identity may be hidden because it's a misdirection in the film. We may at first be led to believe that it's Luke under the mask, before he's revealed to be Driver. And even then, what if Driver's surname isn't Ren but something more familiar?
I wouldn't describe Palpatine as crude or a street brawler. He seems to be incredibly patient and cunning. He was driven by hatred that he mastered and channeled into decades of covert manipulation. Vader, by contrast, is shown from ANH on as at a constant simmer which often boils over: Remember how he screams questions at that Rebel officer at the beginning while breaking his neck? Pretty counter-productive. But then again, Vader may never have received formal Sith training.
Co'tor Shas wrote: Well, Vader's psyke does seem a big strained. Probably comes from thinking you killed the one person you loved.
Pffft. Don't bring that silliness into my original trilogy! Especially considering that from Empire onwards he knows that he didn't kill Padme as she must have survived to give birth to Luke and Leia.
I'd say that the number of times that Vader seems to act purely out of losing control of his emotions is very small. Rather the times that he does strike at others (such as his rampage through the upper command of the Imperial fleet in Empire ) is more of a calculated message to others that he will not tolerate failure.
Each person he kills increases his infamy among their subordinates, increasing their fear of him and allows him basically complete authority over the whole fleet, no questions asked.
In fact, I'm struggling to think of a time when Vader shouted which wasn't that bit at the beginning of a new hope where he tells the men to tear the ship apart to find the plans.
EDIT: Oh, thought of one. Leia on the blockade runner. Apart from that I still can't think of anything.
I don't think Vader ever loses control of his emotions in the OT. Rather, he unleashes them. He uses his anger. He is definitely the Emperor's pupil.
You make a good point about getting rid of Ozzel. In that scene, Ozzel was already sassing Vader. Killing him and brevet promoting Piett does seem like a calculated power move. But there are other instances where Vader seems to lash out for its own sake: Captain Needa in no way challenged Vader's authority. By taking a shuttle to the Executor to personally apologize, Needa was probably trying to overtly demonstrate his subservience to Vader's command. Here is a man who understood Ozzel's mistake and was trying to avoid his fate. But Vader just murders him all the same, and with a sarcastic quip (echoing his assault on Motti in ANH). These scenes set up a contrast that gives Vader depth as a villain. He sometimes uses shocking violence in a coldly calculating manner. Other times, he seems purely sadistic.
See, I always thought that the greatest flaw of the prequel trilogy was its failing to make Anakin's fall sensical and believable. So he's a generally good kid with some emotional control issues...fine. His actions against the Sandpeople -- while terrible -- generally make sense in that context. But then what about his actions in the Jedi temple in ROTS? That was calculated, efficient murdering done out of breathtaking selfishness. Perhaps his execution of Dooku shows a step toward the sadistic or psychopathic, and his actions against Windu show his increasing selfishness too. But IMO there's still about 14 missing steps between there and slaying rooms full of younglings.
So maybe the answer here is that Vader's character has actually been all over the place from the beginning (of the film series). And perhaps his issues went much deeper than emotional control -- he may have had the psychopathic gene in him, just waiting to be flipped. Although then I think you're creating questions about the possibility of his "redemption" at the end of ROTJ.
A lot depends on how you interpret the scene at the end of RotJ with the Force "ghosts" where Anakin is present. Are they in Jedi heaven? If so, does that mean all the terrible things Vader did (like torturing Leia twice FFS) are washed away because he sacrificed himself to save his son? Vader himself tells Luke he has saved him. From what? Jedi hell? When I was a kid, this is how I looked at all of that -- yay Anakin went to heaven.
When Lucas photoshopped Hayden Christiansen over Sebastian Shaw for the Super Special Edition release, I found myself rethinking this. This replacement really bothered me and not just because Christiansen is awful. The issue is, we are seeing the Force ghosts from Luke's perspective. We see Obi-Wan and Yoda as Luke knew them. Lucas didn't photoshop Ewan McGregor over Alec Guiness after all. Significantly (as a matter of the freaking script even), father and son have only seen each other face-to-face in one moment, in which Anakin is portrayed by Shaw.
If they are in Jedi heaven, then I guess Anakin can look like whoever and Luke just recognizes him because ... reasons. But it really doesn't make sense to me, as an adult at least, that becoming a Force ghost is the same thing has being in Jedi heaven. Look at it this way: Suppose Vader had survived his assassination of the Emperor. Saving Luke would not clear his name of all the atrocities he had committed over the years. Imagine a conversation between him and Leia. Yikes. I would guess that, maybe he could have survived but he definitely did not want to. He knew he could not undo all the evil he had wrought. All that was left for him was a quiet moment with his son, who somehow loved him despite everything.
"You were right about me, tell your sister, you were right."
Vader does not redeem himself, through his own sacrifice. That is simply too little, too late. He is redeemed by his son's unconditional love for him. And redemption here does not mean, okay all is forgiven. It means Vader got something he absolutely did not deserve: a moment of peace.
I think that there are certain books, whether people like them or not, bring certain aspects of the Dark Side out in such a way that simply make sense.
For instance, if you follow Darth Bane's logic, having only 2 Sith at any given time makes perfect sense. If you view the Force as a sort of living being, it makes sense that the side that sees ambition and power-seeking actions to be a good thing would manifest itself in greater power in a smaller number of beings, as opposed to the "other side" which values teamwork, harmony and "The Greater Good" (did I just violate Tau copyright?)
IMO, using this logic, is why Obi Wan was entirely correct when he says Anakin was to bring balance to the force; there weren't enough Sith at the time, and Sidious needed a new apprentice to keep the balance.
As to Palpatine/Sidious being patient, I actually like the book "Darth Plagueis" because, IMO it illustrates in some minor detail how a being fueled by the Dark Side would be forced to operate in two spheres of influence and keep both identities separated from each other (until the time is right, of course)
See, I always thought that the greatest flaw of the prequel trilogy was its failing to make Anakin's fall sensical and believable. So he's a generally good kid with some emotional control issues...fine. His actions against the Sandpeople -- while terrible -- generally make sense in that context. But then what about his actions in the Jedi temple in ROTS? That was calculated, efficient murdering done out of breathtaking selfishness. Perhaps his execution of Dooku shows a step toward the sadistic or psychopathic, and his actions against Windu show his increasing selfishness too. But IMO there's still about 14 missing steps between there and slaying rooms full of younglings.
So maybe the answer here is that Vader's character has actually been all over the place from the beginning (of the film series). And perhaps his issues went much deeper than emotional control -- he may have had the psychopathic gene in him, just waiting to be flipped. Although then I think you're creating questions about the possibility of his "redemption" at the end of ROTJ.
I agree with you in that there seems to be a rather large leap from "angst-ridden teenager who is force sensitive" to "Darth Vader". But, IMHO, that may be something that would be better served in the other media available, like the books and EU. This is especially true if we're to assume that the Clone wars were a lengthy 10-15 year conflict or something to allow time for there to be some kind of war weariness or something that has worn on him over the years, and not just Palpatine/Sidious whispering sweet nothings into his ear periodically.
gorgon wrote: Then again, his identity may be hidden because it's a misdirection in the film. We may at first be led to believe that it's Luke under the mask, before he's revealed to be Driver. And even then, what if Driver's surname isn't Ren but something more familiar?
It would be a fairly awesome completing-the-circle sort of twist if the evil villain of the movie turned out to be Luke's son...
A Town Called Malus wrote: ...Especially considering that from Empire onwards he knows that he didn't kill Padme as she must have survived to give birth to Luke and Leia..
Well, no, all he knows from that point is that the baby survived. Given how close she was (remember, she gave birth almost immediately after leaving Mustafa) it's entirely possible that he just assumed that the baby had been saved despite her death, since he had no reason to doubt Palpatine's word about that.
Manchu wrote: Well, we have been discussing the idea that he is just a Sith wannabe.
Would you consider non-Sith Dark Jedi to be Sith wannabes, or their own thing? (I realize I might be splitting hairs here).
Isn't the "canon" definition of a Dark Jedi a person/being who once was in the Jedi Temple and later fell off their "vows" and duties toward the darkside?
Also, I suppose there could be some merit to a person being a Sith wannabe, as well as not being a Dark Jedi, if we have something that says that the Sith must a) be a DS user of the force and b) have been trained by a Sith; and this being has not met the second requirement. But then, we could also get into the grey area of what constitutes "training" by the Sith, and, to a Jedi (such as Luke at this point) what does a Sith look like? Is there any real difference to Luke or the Jedi in the appearance, manner, and aims of a Sith or a "Sith" ??
Not to mention that just because he was not trained by Palpatine doesn't mean he wasn't trained by a Sith if you would include "self-taught from a textbook" under the banner of being trained by a Sith. I have no doubt there's still gonna be some Holocrons scattered throughout the galaxy, hidden away...
Well remember that in the original trilogy, the word "Sith" isn't even used, and only Darth Vader has the title of "Darth". Until the prequels, the word Sith only appeared on a trading card referring to Darth Vader as "The Dark Lord of the Sith". Due to the lack of context on the meaning behind this, Timothy Zahn originally planned to have the Noghri be called the Sith. It wasn't until the prequel trilogy that Sith and Darth were used as the dark-side equivalent of Jedi - which means either Kylo Ren ain't a Sith because he ain't a Darth, or Disney are so determined to break connections with the prequels that they've ditched the whole concept of Sith and Darth as titles.
Who/whatever Kylo Ren is, he certainly seems to be a part of either the Empire or this 'First Order', rather than just one guy on his own; in the brief shots of him in the last trailer, he's leading Stormtroopers in to battle. To me, that suggests something more formal in role than just a solo Force User using the Dark Side (although oddly enough, the first trailer did have him alone, limping along and with the seemingly cobbled together lightsabre).
Could he perhaps hold a position similar to Assaj Ventris/Savage Oppress/The Inquisitor, being a Sith-trained operative employed as an assassin/taskforce leader, but not a Sith himself by any stretch? Perhaps the new incarnation of The Empire, post-Sidious, felt they needed someone who could inspire the same fear and hold the same position as Vader did to The Emperor, their Right Hand and Executioner while the (presumably non-Sith) leaders of the Empire command from on high?
Hordini wrote: Would you consider non-Sith Dark Jedi to be Sith wannabes, or their own thing? (I realize I might be splitting hairs here).
"Jedi" and "Sith" refer to organizational affiliations. A dark Jedi is a someone who was/is a part of the Jedi Order but turned to the dark side. Asajj Ventress is a dark Jedi but not a Sith -- at least to my knowledge she was never inducted into the Sith. What I mean by Sith-wannabe is somebody, regardless of what kind of training they do or don't have, who thinks of himself as Sith and wants to be thought of as Sith by others but who has never been inducted. I'd say, at various points in her life, Asajj Ventress qualified as a Sith-wannabe.
Sturmtruppen wrote: Well remember that in the original trilogy, the word "Sith" isn't even used, and only Darth Vader has the title of "Darth". Until the prequels, the word Sith only appeared on a trading card referring to Darth Vader as "The Dark Lord of the Sith". Due to the lack of context on the meaning behind this, Timothy Zahn originally planned to have the Noghri be called the Sith. It wasn't until the prequel trilogy that Sith and Darth were used as the dark-side equivalent of Jedi - which means either Kylo Ren ain't a Sith because he ain't a Darth, or Disney are so determined to break connections with the prequels that they've ditched the whole concept of Sith and Darth as titles.
If they take SWTOR as a piece of "Canon" then we could see a bit of a return to using Sith to more specifically describe the presumed extinct race of Dark Side Force users known as the Sith.
What we do know of the "Sith" from the Original trilogy is that a person/being who uses the Dark Side of the Force will "give up" their given name, and assume a new identity. We know this at least from Empire, due to what is said in ANH as well as Empire... IE. Luke knows his father's name was Anakin, who was "killed" by Darth Vader, but with the revelation that Vader IS Skywalker Sr. we can make the logical conclusion that at some point he ditched his given name and assumed the name of Vader. We can also see this in the prequels with Sidious and Palpatine (though I do wish that could have been handled better).
That "give up your name" thing does certainly seem to be the case.
For example there's also the bit in Jedi where Luke meets Vader on Endor and Luke says to him "I accept that you were once the Jedi Anakin Skywalker, my father" (or something like that) to which Vader replies "That name no longer has any meaning to me" (or something like that, again).
I think the title Dark Lord of the Sith first showed up in the novelization of ANH. And there was no explanation of it until Dark Horse decided the Sith were a race of people whose leaders used the dark side of the force. It wasn't until Episode I that "Darth" turned out to be a title. That's when all this Rule of Two BS became a thing. It was also the first time there was any clue that Palpatine might be Sith, IIRC.
Manchu wrote: I think the title Dark Lord of the Sith first showed up in the novelization of ANH. And there was no explanation of it until Dark Horse decided the Sith were a race of people whose leaders used the dark side of the force. It wasn't until Episode I that "Darth" turned out to be a title. That's when all this Rule of Two BS became a thing. It was also the first time there was any clue that Palpatine might be Sith, IIRC.
Lol, I get that there are some people who dislike the "Rule of Two", but I think it really makes the most sense to oppose the ideals of the Jedi.
Manchu wrote: I think the title Dark Lord of the Sith first showed up in the novelization of ANH. And there was no explanation of it until Dark Horse decided the Sith were a race of people whose leaders used the dark side of the force. It wasn't until Episode I that "Darth" turned out to be a title. That's when all this Rule of Two BS became a thing. It was also the first time there was any clue that Palpatine might be Sith, IIRC.
Lol, I get that there are some people who dislike the "Rule of Two", but I think it really makes the most sense to oppose the ideals of the Jedi.
I think the rule of two is a ridiculous concept and makes the Jedi as an organization look incredibly incompetent.
As I said earlier (or maybe it was the other SW thread, lol)... The Light Side thrives on harmony and cooperation, it's power seems to be boosted and magnified the larger and more cohesive in purpose the group of "Jedi" are. If there is an eternal balance in the Force, then the Dark side, MUST thrive on the opposite of harmony and cooperation.... It rewards and thrives off of passion and ambition, cunning and some would say "backstabbing" or scheming. As such, IMO, the Dark Side would be more powerful if concentrated in fewer beings. As it stands in our existing lore and the EU, the Dark Side seems to always fall because it could never unite, the Sith Empires always fell apart from within just as much as from without.... If there's only Two "Sith" in the galaxy (One to have the power, one to crave it) then the Dark Side is about as concentrated as it gets, yet it still is working in it's designed and balanced manner in opposition to the Light Side.
As I said earlier (or maybe it was the other SW thread, lol)... The Light Side thrives on harmony and cooperation, it's power seems to be boosted and magnified the larger and more cohesive in purpose the group of "Jedi" are. If there is an eternal balance in the Force, then the Dark side, MUST thrive on the opposite of harmony and cooperation.... It rewards and thrives off of passion and ambition, cunning and some would say "backstabbing" or scheming. As such, IMO, the Dark Side would be more powerful if concentrated in fewer beings. As it stands in our existing lore and the EU, the Dark Side seems to always fall because it could never unite, the Sith Empires always fell apart from within just as much as from without.... If there's only Two "Sith" in the galaxy (One to have the power, one to crave it) then the Dark Side is about as concentrated as it gets, yet it still is working in it's designed and balanced manner in opposition to the Light Side.
If the dark side thrives off of passion, ambition, cunning, backstabbing, and generally not cooperating, why would you expect that they would all cooperate and agree to follow the rule of two?
I don't think the light side and dark side themselves strengthen or weaken. What seems to happen is, a being's ability to connect with the Force can be strong or weak. A bunch of Jedi working together do not necessarily have a strong connection to the Force. In the PT, 99% of Jedi seem to be on the same page but their connection to the Force was so weak that they could not figure out Palpatine was a Sith Lord.
Manchu wrote: I think the title Dark Lord of the Sith first showed up in the novelization of ANH. And there was no explanation of it until Dark Horse decided the Sith were a race of people whose leaders used the dark side of the force. It wasn't until Episode I that "Darth" turned out to be a title. That's when all this Rule of Two BS became a thing. It was also the first time there was any clue that Palpatine might be Sith, IIRC.
Lol, I get that there are some people who dislike the "Rule of Two", but I think it really makes the most sense to oppose the ideals of the Jedi.
I think the rule of two is a ridiculous concept and makes the Jedi as an organization look incredibly incompetent.
I never considered Yoda's line about "always two there are..." as a rule. I saw it as a wise proverb that basically says "this bad dude wasn't acting alone." The question he was asking being: was Maul in charge, or was he following someone else?
Well the Inquisitor demonstrates that it is still canon for non-Sith dark side users to exist.
Sith is just a title. An important one to be sure. The Rule of Two ensures that only two can ever claim the title Dark Lord of the Sith, at least without the other claimants putting a giant bulls-eye on your back.
You can be a dark side user and as long as you don't claim to be Sith you aren't going to get hunted down by the others(at least necessarily)
If the dark side thrives off of passion, ambition, cunning, backstabbing, and generally not cooperating, why would you expect that they would all cooperate and agree to follow the rule of two?
Most of the time, they don't. Secret Apprentices were de rigure among Sith lords.
However, the Rule of Two was only followed (in theory) by the followers of Darth Bane. Everyone else pretty much did whatever it was they wanted. On occasion there were several organizations and political entities all claiming the 'Sith' mantel at the same time, including two separate Sith Empires at one point.
If we're bringing EU concepts into the discussion, Palpatine was not a follower of the rule of two anyway.He was trained to be by Plaguis, but had personally never bought into the concept.
To wit, his intention was to live forever and always be the DlotS. Vader, Luke, Dooku and all the other apprentices and hands he trained were just tools.
BlaxicanX wrote: If we're bringing EU concepts into the discussion, Palpatine was not a follower of the rule of two anyway.He was trained to be by Plaguis, but had personally never bought into the concept.
To wit, his intention was to live forever and always be the DlotS. Vader, Luke, Dooku and all the other apprentices and hands he trained were just tools.
Lets be fair here, every Sith lord intends to keep his throne forever. Palpatine just happened to have the requisite immortality, but that doesn't mean that every Sith Lord is just going to roll over when his Apprentice comes to overthrow him.
Few Sith Lords intend to keep the throne forever, they just try to, which isn't exactly the same thing. Sith Lords train their apprentices to become as powerful as possible with the understanding that eventually there will be a showdown between them, and either they'll win and find a new apprentice who's "worthy", or they'll die and the apprentice will become the new Sith Lord.
Palpatine was unique in that he went out of his way to rig the game from the start, sabotaging his apprentices and stunting their growth so that they could never challenge him. That's the part that directly contradicts the Rule of Two.
Its more that most of them accept in the back of their minds they're gonna die eventually, its just they all intend on saying "Not today!" each and every day. Including the day their apprentice murders them.
Paradigm wrote: Who/whatever Kylo Ren is, he certainly seems to be a part of either the Empire or this 'First Order', rather than just one guy on his own; in the brief shots of him in the last trailer, he's leading Stormtroopers in to battle.
Is he though? I mean we see a half second flash of him swinging a lightsaber, and another of some stormies turning around as he does some kind of force push/pull thing. Who's to say he isn't a lone operative, those stormies had secured an artifact he wanted, and he had just force-jumped off a ledge above, landed, and started throwing punks around/hacking them up. I'd prefer him not to be associated to be honest, I'd rather a third party who can be a spanner in the works of either side, with their own goals, as opposed to just two sides lining up, each with their own force users, and having at it.
Vader was the only one who took on an actual apprentice.
If you follow the EU book, "Darth Plagueis" as being canon (it isn't really), then Palpatine took an apprentice while still an apprentice himself.... At the point in PM where Maul is revealed, Darth Plagueis for whatever reason, believes that Maul is merely Palpatine's force trained "attack dog" and not actually an apprentice.
But as far as we know, Palpatine didn't take another apprentice while Emperor and while having Vader around. Really, it seems that both Sidious and Vader weren't above bending the Rule of Two in the aims of becoming the Dark Lord himself (as the Force Unleashed games, Vader, IIRC tells you that together you'll take out Palpatine, then in Empire, and RotJ he talks to Luke about destroying the big E together and ruling as father and son)
Vader was the only one who took on an actual apprentice.
If you follow the EU book, "Darth Plagueis" as being canon (it isn't really), then Palpatine took an apprentice while still an apprentice himself.... At the point in PM where Maul is revealed, Darth Plagueis for whatever reason, believes that Maul is merely Palpatine's force trained "attack dog" and not actually an apprentice.
But as far as we know, Palpatine didn't take another apprentice while Emperor and while having Vader around. Really, it seems that both Sidious and Vader weren't above bending the Rule of Two in the aims of becoming the Dark Lord himself (as the Force Unleashed games, Vader, IIRC tells you that together you'll take out Palpatine, then in Empire, and RotJ he talks to Luke about destroying the big E together and ruling as father and son)
I did mean while he was Emperor.
It seems that the normal progression is the Apprentice takes on an Apprentice of his own when he is seeking to overthrow his master.
Seems like the Sith like to keep other Sith around by simply hand waving them away as "not really being Sith, maybe I'll Darth-Something them later but until then they are totally non-Sith, promise". Of course that kind of scheming is what led to the Rule of Two in the first place.
Palpatine was unique in that he went out of his way to rig the game from the start, sabotaging his apprentices and stunting their growth so that they could never challenge him. That's the part that directly contradicts the Rule of Two.
Palpatine never really took on proper apprentices besides Maul and Vader, his force trained operatives like the Hands (Mara Jade, et al) were never trained to the levels of full Jedi or Sith, they were given the tools they needed to carry out their missions, usually focused around espionage and some things to enhance their combat potential, and little else in the way of development or training, which would then be purposefully stifled by Palpatine. Again, ex: Mara Jade, who became an extremely capable Jedi Knight and later Master but was developmentally stunted, most likely artificially, while serving as a Hand.
Grey Templar wrote: Its more that most of them accept in the back of their minds they're gonna die eventually, its just they all intend on saying "Not today!" each and every day. Including the day their apprentice murders them.
I'd kinda guess that's how the apprentices feel about their masters too. "Good night Anakin, I'll likely kill you in the morning"
Thank you for that.
