ZergSmasher wrote:
I'm waiting for the book they recently announced before I truly get started with the game; I did already pick up a pretty good Orlock model collection from a friend. I just don't want to get their gang sourcebook (House of Iron?) only to have it invalidated within a couple of months.

Don't let these nitpicking doomsayers like Baxx there mislead you. The game is in a very good place.

Waiting for Outlands is still a good idea but House of Iron isn't going to be invalidated anytime soon.

Having Baxx actively shee-iting on the game is actually an external balance.

The game deserves constant scrutiny and blunt criticism. Anything that is worthwhile does ...

 ohreally wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I'm waiting for the book they recently announced before I truly get started with the game; I did already pick up a pretty good Orlock model collection from a friend. I just don't want to get their gang sourcebook (House of Iron?) only to have it invalidated within a couple of months.

Don't let these nitpicking doomsayers like Baxx there mislead you. The game is in a very good place.

Waiting for Outlands is still a good idea but House of Iron isn't going to be invalidated anytime soon.

For those playing the home game of this edition in air quotes.
Orlocks started the 2017 edition with a get you by pdf in November
In 2018 they got a gang war book for around $30 usd
Also in 2018 the gang war books were superseded by the Gangs book for around $50
Two years later House of Iron was released replacing Gangs book

In four and a half years, there have been three books for the gang.
Escher and Goliath have had four books in the same period.
The updated rule books cycle spins fast for the current edition.

Resting One wrote:
Having Baxx actively shee-iting on the game is actually an external balance.

The game deserves constant scrutiny and blunt criticism. Anything that is worthwhile does ...

Valid criticism is always welcome.

Unfortunately someone who advocates stealing the rules no matter what and doesn't even play the RAW disqualifies themselves from being taken seriously.

Of course, this forum also bullied Petitioner's City out of the thread for having anything positive to say.

So we all know which way the wind blows around here.

If you like this edition of Necromunda, the Ash Wastes Rulebook is the best expression of the rules so far. We just got a FAQ and updated trading post. The game continues to be actively developed and expanded.

I look forward to Outlands making a true Ash Wastes vehicle campaign playable. It should have been released alongside the box set. The Ash Wastes Rulebook should have been released separately at the same time like the new models. Unfortunately that wasn't the case. It's not the way I would have done things but there are only more good things to come from the Ash Wastes as far as I can tell.

 privateer4hire wrote:

For those playing the home game of this edition in air quotes.
Orlocks started the 2017 edition with a get you by pdf in November
In 2018 they got a gang war book for around $30 usd
Also in 2018 the gang war books were superseded by the Gangs book for around $50
Two years later House of Iron was released replacing Gangs book

In four and a half years, there have been three books for the gang.
Escher and Goliath have had four books in the same period.
The updated rule books cycle spins fast for the current edition.

The Orlock from the 300 USD ash waste box have different point cost and how ganger equipped (come with forced mesh armor instead of nothing) than the one in House of Iron. This is the same for Nomad except there're no nomad book to drawn comparison from. Gotta add more confusion to the players with each new release, just copy paste the thing that existed instead of writing rule like rule writer try to write them again by memory, how hard can that be???

Same thing happen in the "Hive Wars" box, different cost and gang structure? What's going on here at the SG studio? Ctrl +C and Ctrl +V.

So it really is V4.0 of Orlocks?

Maybe the Necromunda team is a bit like the teams Activision has working on Call of Duty. With that they have 3 (maybe 4 now?) teams working on a regular development cycle doing one game every 3 years, but from the outside it looks like one game every year because they've staggered their development.

So with Necromunda the people who worked on the Necromunda starter are now working on something new, whereas the people who worked on Dark Uprising are the ones who worked on Ash Wastes. It would explain why the rules don't seem to have much relation to the one just prior, almost like they're 'skipping' the updates and only working off of the base rules from the major rule release before that.

I'd guess that's the way GW does FAQs/points updates as well, as we've seen things revert back to the way they were two FAQs/points updates before without any rhyme or reason.

As I expected this is not Necromunda Underhive anymore, rules are not compatible. This is a whole new game/edition so books will be replaced with a full new cycle of releases.

Which for me is not a bad thing since me and my group completed our gangs not long ago (upgrades are still pretty new) and we're basically ready now to play Underhive at its full potential, although some of the scenery for the campaign still needs work. So not having to update the rules for a long time for a game that will be played only occasionally is good, really good.

Eventually when the game has settled, like the current state of Underhive, I might start looking at Ash Wastes. For the moment it's an easy pass for me, but nevetheless the miniatures (some of them at least) look good and the game is interesting and promising, so I'll keep following how it grows.

Should not the new gangs that dont have the under hive sculpted bases supplied in the box, actually be cheaper?

 NAVARRO wrote:
Should not the new gangs that dont have the under hive sculpted bases supplied in the box, actually be cheaper?

You're a funny guy NAVARRO.

Well they come with the "fine sand" sculpted base

 NAVARRO wrote:
Should not the new gangs that dont have the under hive sculpted bases supplied in the box, actually be cheaper?

 Blackie wrote:
As I expected this is not Necromunda Underhive anymore, rules are not compatible. This is a whole new game/edition so books will be replaced with a full new cycle of releases.

This is 100% wrong. The rules in Ash Wastes are additive. It's all compatible.

Apparently some people can't tell the difference or read the designer notes in Hive War or the Ash Wastes instructions that clearly state the gang rules are not the full rules and are only intended for skirmish games to help you play right out of the box. Neither were new versions of the Orlock gang list they expected people to start using in all circumstances. The definitive Orlock list is House of Iron. It even says as much in the Ash Wastes instruction pamphlet where their rules are for the box. The complete rules for their vehicles will specifically be in Book of the Outlands, but that's new content.

There are going to be new books and new gangs, but anyone who thinks we're about to start a new cycle of House books immediately is either maliciously confusing and misleading protentional new players or being willfully ignorant.

I'm glad your group is ready to go all in on Underhive and it is essentially a complete setting, unlike Ash Wastes, but the Ash Wastes is just another setting using the same rules you already know with the addition of the new rules for vehicles. The game is the same otherwise. I also think it's worth waiting a bit for Ash Wastes to settle down for most groups, but if you're already ready to go with custom vehicles, you should be able to start a complete campaign once Book of the Outlands is released anyway.

I really feel bad for anyone who relies on this forum to get to know this game. Lots of misleading, trolling and malicious comments from people with suspect motives and experience.

 ohreally wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
As I expected this is not Necromunda Underhive anymore, rules are not compatible. This is a whole new game/edition so books will be replaced with a full new cycle of releases.

This is 100% wrong. The rules in Ash Wastes are additive. It's all compatible.

Apparently some people can't tell the difference or read the designer notes in Hive War or the Ash Wastes instructions that clearly state the gang rules are not the full rules and are only intended for skirmish games to help you play right out of the box. Neither were new versions of the Orlock gang list they expected people to start using in all circumstances. The definitive Orlock list is House of Iron. It even says as much in the Ash Wastes instruction pamphlet where their rules are for the box. The complete rules for their vehicles will specifically be in Book of the Outlands, but that's new content.

There are going to be new books and new gangs, but anyone who thinks we're about to start a new cycle of House books immediately is either maliciously confusing and misleading protentional new players or being willfully ignorant.

I'm glad your group is ready to go all in on Underhive and it is essentially a complete setting, unlike Ash Wastes, but the Ash Wastes is just another setting using the same rules you already know with the addition of the new rules for vehicles. The game is the same otherwise. I also think it's worth waiting a bit for Ash Wastes to settle down for most groups, but if you're already ready to go with custom vehicles, you should be able to start a complete campaign once Book of the Outlands is released anyway.

I really feel bad for anyone who relies on this forum to get to know this game. Lots of misleading, trolling and malicious comments from people with suspect motives and experience.

Good post, thanks dude

 ohreally wrote:

There are going to be new books and new gangs, but anyone who thinks we're about to start a new cycle of House books immediately is either maliciously confusing and misleading protentional new players or being willfully ignorant.

I would say it's more malicious to misrepresent the game as a complete and coherent product and lure people into throwing away their money on something they might find to not be as polished you make it out to be, than the reverse.

 ohreally wrote:



Apparently some people can't tell the difference or read the designer notes in Hive War or the Ash Wastes instructions that clearly state the gang rules are not the full rules and are only intended for skirmish games to help you play right out of the box. Neither were new versions of the Orlock gang list they expected people to start using in all circumstances. The definitive Orlock list is House of Iron. It even says as much in the Ash Wastes instruction pamphlet where their rules are for the box. The complete rules for their vehicles will specifically be in Book of the Outlands, but that's new content.

A gang list with different cost is not "not the full rule", it is the wrong rule. It blown my mind a simple demand of keeping the cost the same between different publication is so hard to understand. Like giving them the "correct" cost would suddenly cause the value of the house book drop to 0.

With so many "why?" being thrown around, we all knew the real reason these stuffs was changed , because these starter box have "insane value", and players who spent 300USD for it but not for the books are cheapskate players, so they deserved the cheapskate rule.

 ohreally wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
As I expected this is not Necromunda Underhive anymore, rules are not compatible. This is a whole new game/edition so books will be replaced with a full new cycle of releases.

This is 100% wrong. The rules in Ash Wastes are additive. It's all compatible.

Apparently some people can't tell the difference or read the designer notes in Hive War or the Ash Wastes instructions that clearly state the gang rules are not the full rules and are only intended for skirmish games to help you play right out of the box. Neither were new versions of the Orlock gang list they expected people to start using in all circumstances. The definitive Orlock list is House of Iron. It even says as much in the Ash Wastes instruction pamphlet where their rules are for the box. The complete rules for their vehicles will specifically be in Book of the Outlands, but that's new content.

There are going to be new books and new gangs, but anyone who thinks we're about to start a new cycle of House books immediately is either maliciously confusing and misleading protentional new players or being willfully ignorant.

I'm glad your group is ready to go all in on Underhive and it is essentially a complete setting, unlike Ash Wastes, but the Ash Wastes is just another setting using the same rules you already know with the addition of the new rules for vehicles. The game is the same otherwise. I also think it's worth waiting a bit for Ash Wastes to settle down for most groups, but if you're already ready to go with custom vehicles, you should be able to start a complete campaign once Book of the Outlands is released anyway.

I really feel bad for anyone who relies on this forum to get to know this game. Lots of misleading, trolling and malicious comments from people with suspect motives and experience.

My point is that if new books are specifically designed for Ash Wastes and are not compatible with the Underhive game, then they're two different games/editions. For example is the rulebook significantly different from the 2018 ruleboook?

If Ash Wastes was just an expansion then gangs wouldn't need a new Book of X. It's a whole new game/edition instead. In 40k armies can play with 8th edition codexes, but they lack lots of features.

Well, although GW was instantly out of Ash Waste Nomad cards I did manage to get some from Element Games. My nomads arrived today as well. No rules or stats inside the box. No rulebook I can see to buy? I didn't want the giant box because a) price, b) I already have Orlocks I don't use.

So... are GW going to cater for people like me? Is there a plan for a rulebook in the future for Ash Waste Nomads? Or am I going to have to find illegal rules ffs.

I believe we're getting "Book of the Outlands" (not sure if that's the right name), with the Nomads, the Squats, and the Orlock Quads at the minimum. Not sure when it is due, though.

Here is the community link

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/06/revealed-squat-prospectors-hit-the-motherlode-in-the-ash-wastes/

Thanks Flinty - looking it up got interrupted by getting a pizza out of the over

Priorities, amirite?

Pizza wins every time, my friend

Well, it reads as though that Book of the Outlands is due the same time those squat miners are due. The could be months away.
It'll give me time to build, paint and forget I had any interest in them.

 Blackie wrote:

My point is that if new books are specifically designed for Ash Wastes and are not compatible with the Underhive game, then they're two different games/editions. For example is the rulebook significantly different from the 2018 ruleboook?

The Ash Wastes Rulebook is not significantly different from the 2018 Rulebook as far as the rules themselves are concerned. The core rules are the same (inclusive of errata) but also have rules for handling vehicles.

They simply added a new concept called model so that old rules which refer to fighters will not affect vehicles, but new rules can specify if they work with just fighters, just vehicles, or both (ie. models).

You can play Nomads in the Underhive. You can play Goliath or any other gang n the Ash Wastes setting but they don't have any vehicles at the moment. That should be corrected for all gangs in the Book of the Outlands which is said to have generic vehicle rules. Even with the next book in hand, you'd still want House of Chains to play those Goliath.

It's not a new game or new edition in the sense of 40K. You can mix and match games set in the Underhive and Ash Wastes in the same campaign without issue. Some scenarios allow vehicles and some don't.

It's an expansion that has a stand alone rulebook so you don't need anything else but it's all additive and doesn't replace anything.

If you don't want the box or don't want to play Ash Wastes games or use vehicles you can ignore it, but it's not a brand new game. It's a new additional way to play the game in a new setting with new models.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
Well, it reads as though that Book of the Outlands is due the same time those squat miners are due. The could be months away.
It'll give me time to build, paint and forget I had any interest in them.

This also happened when N17 was released. People wanted to create campaigns but only Escher & Goliath were available for months. Then everybody went elsewhere for their tabletop fix.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
Well, it reads as though that Book of the Outlands is due the same time those squat miners are due. The could be months away.
It'll give me time to build, paint and forget I had any interest in them.

This also happened when N17 was released. People wanted to create campaigns but only Escher & Goliath were available for months. Then everybody went elsewhere for their tabletop fix.

Since they previewed the models already should not this be hitting us sooner rather than later?

 ohreally wrote:
Unfortunately someone who advocates stealing the rules no matter what and doesn't even play the RAW disqualifies themselves from being taken seriously.

I'm an advocate for that, while also being a proponent of the game (and how good it can be with some arbitrator/house rule intervention) compared to many in this thread.

 ohreally wrote:
If you like this edition of Necromunda, the Ash Wastes Rulebook is the best expression of the rules so far.

In what ways, specifically? How did you reach that conclusion, and what changes are in the rulebook that made you believe that?

Baxx made the specific claim that the stealth improvements to Pitch Black and Sentries - "improvements" which were nonetheless insufficient to fix the issues surrounding those rules, which are two of the worst things in the game, but were still better than nothing - have been rolled back in the new rulebook. If that's true the AW rulebook is objectively worse than the last one, unless you have uncovered some new tweaks which you can share.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

I would say it's more malicious to misrepresent the game as a complete and coherent product and lure people into throwing away their money on something they might find to not be as polished you make it out to be, than the reverse.

So because they are still releasing D&D books nobody should play D&D or maliciously misrepresent that it's a complete or coherent product? Just asking for an internet friend.

You can play any gangs in the Ash Waste, you just don't have any vehicle while the other guy have free 400 extra credit to spend on it.

Sound like fun, balanced game of ash waste bowling.

Chopstick wrote:
You can play any gangs in the Ash Waste, you just don't have any vehicle while the other guy have free 400 extra credit to spend on it.

Sound like fun, balanced game of ash waste bowling.

Begs the question...who the feth would agree to that? Ya know, you could just NOT take the vehicles. Or buckle-up and do a little work to have them for the other gangs.

It doesnt require any work. Just allow the other gangs to use the Orlock vehicle entry in exactly the same way that they do.

 Flinty wrote:
It doesnt require any work. Just allow the other gangs to use the Orlock vehicle entry in exactly the same way that they do.

I can see the issue that the riders won't match, or will need some work to convert.

A better solution would be to bring in the GSC dune buggy and truck, which do not need visible riders and are supposed to be generic Imperial vehicles. The Rhino would also make sense, Sentinels and turret-less Chimeras could work too.

Like other said I expect there will be a WD article at some point giving Necro rules for some 40k vehicles, but who knows where or when or how good it will be. It really should have been included from the start.

Or do a bit of counts-as until the generic and other gang specific vehicles are available. I just felt it a bit unecessary to make it out like a. Ash wastes campaign from day 1 would mean that only Orlocks could get access to the 400 free of vehicle.

I do agree that it would have been better for the player base to have something for everyone on release of the box set. Hopefully the book comes out soon.

Book will probably come with the cargo 8 kit to give a generic vehicle option

The warcom article states

a complete set of new vehicle rules for gangs, including adding the Cargo-8 Ridgehauler,* Ridgerunners, Wolfquads, and Rockgrinders to your rosters

 Flinty wrote:
The warcom article states

a complete set of new vehicle rules for gangs, including adding the Cargo-8 Ridgehauler,* Ridgerunners, Wolfquads, and Rockgrinders to your rosters

That's some welcome news.

I'd still have put the humble Rhino in there

Poor Rhino, these days everyone just thinks of it as a marine tank.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:


Poor Rhino, these days everyone just thinks of it as a marine tank.

Not everyone.

I like the exploding Rhino type.

 ohreally wrote:

Unfortunately someone who advocates stealing the rules no matter what and doesn't even play the RAW disqualifies themselves from being taken seriously.

Who plays RAW? I'd argue that's not even possible.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blackie wrote:

My point is that if new books are specifically designed for Ash Wastes and are not compatible with the Underhive game, then they're two different games/editions. For example is the rulebook significantly different from the 2018 ruleboook?

If Ash Wastes was just an expansion then gangs wouldn't need a new Book of X. It's a whole new game/edition instead. In 40k armies can play with 8th edition codexes, but they lack lots of features.

Arguably this has been the case all the time. Perils/Judgement was specifically designed for N18. The N19 gangs are kinda awkward compared to N20+ gangs in several aspects.

FWIW, rules are pretty much more or less "compatible" across all books. On the other hand, all books have differences. N22 rulebook (Ash Wastes) is significantly different because it introduces a new structure for dividing "models" into "fighters" and "vehicles". This means that vehicle rules are now mixed into virtually all core rules (nerve tests, rally, crew selection, close combat, actions, movement, recovery, injuries/damage ++). However, it seems the existing rules for fighters didn't change much because of it. Ash Wastes won't be perfectly compatible with all previous content. There are several existing special rules that allow to enable/disable pitch black (hangers-on etc.). How would you implement this in Ash Wastes? The mat is double-sided with one day-side and one night-side. Imagine using Core Servitor (from House of Artifice) to flip the lights. Extremely impractical haha. Not to mention it doesn't make a lot of sense that the sun stops shining because of the ability to control electric lamps.

GW said somewhere on warcom that this was a new edition. I don't necessarily agree, but it's certainly a new "version", but so is any book.

If you want more details on what's different in the rulebook, I can show you one example reported by someone else for the Sneak Attack Sentry Rules:
N18:
- Intro: “In these scenarios, the following rules are used”
- Raising the Alarm: “Once the alarm is raised, the sentries rules are no longer used and the defender’s fighters follow all the normal rules.”
N19 & N22:
- Intro: “In these scenarios, the following rules are used”
- Raising the Alarm: “Once the alarm is raised, all sentries immediately gain Ready markers, the Sentries rules are no longer used, and the defender’s fighters follow all the normal rules.”
N21:
- Intro: “In these scenarios, the following rules are used. This is called the ‘Sentry Round’”
- Raising the Alarm: “Once the alarm is raised, the Sentry Round ends and play progresses to the End phase. Once this is complete, the battle continues as normal.”

You will find similar fluctuations for Advancement Tables, Pitch Black, Leading By Example / Gang Hierarchy (X) and so much more. A lot of these examples will be situational and impact could vary from minor to major. Which means that casual players could just roll with whatever. On the other hand, having any discussion, questions and answers, either with local play group or online, is troublesome.

I don't mean to say it's all bad and people can't enjoy it. If you like it, that's great. Miniatures are cool (subjective) and the game is fun (subjective). But the rules quality is not good, and that's objective. If you're okay with that, nothing is stopping you from having the most fun out of the 20 books we got in 5 years (with more coming soon). If you prefer to have some level of consistency and quality, you might enjoy other games a lot more (for example Kill Team and Underworlds where GW actually cares about quality, balance and consistency).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
It doesnt require any work. Just allow the other gangs to use the Orlock vehicle entry in exactly the same way that they do.

I can see the issue that the riders won't match, or will need some work to convert.

A better solution would be to bring in the GSC dune buggy and truck, which do not need visible riders and are supposed to be generic Imperial vehicles. The Rhino would also make sense, Sentinels and turret-less Chimeras could work too.

Like other said I expect there will be a WD article at some point giving Necro rules for some 40k vehicles, but who knows where or when or how good it will be. It really should have been included from the start.

Perhaps you're arguing from 2 different perspectives: Modelling vs rules.

Baxx wrote:
I don't mean to say it's all bad and people can't enjoy it. If you like it, that's great. Miniatures are cool (subjective) and the game is fun (subjective). But the rules quality is not good, and that's objective. If you're okay with that, nothing is stopping you from having the most fun out of the 20 books we got in 5 years (with more coming soon). If you prefer to have some level of consistency and quality, you might enjoy other games a lot more (for example Kill Team and Underworlds where GW actually cares about quality, balance and consistency).

Quoted for truth.

Kill Team, Underworlds and Adeptus Titanicus are the games to seek out if one is searching for an objectively tight & consistent ruleset (with factions that are fairly balanced). Necromunda is a loose, RPG-like experience that provides for a compelling gaming experience over a campaign, when all players involved have figured out what framework one is playing within.

I do think that a billion dollar company can afford to put more quality control on the rules and stop relying on the fanbase to correct errata and balance.

 Vertrucio wrote:
I do think that a billion dollar company can afford to put more quality control on the rules and stop relying on the fanbase to correct errata and balance.

But that costs money!

The trick is showing them that not doing that costs them more money in lost sales

 Overread wrote:
The trick is showing them that not doing that costs them more money in lost sales

No but if you follow every other companies* lead and continue filling the market with half-arsed tat you'll make a profit regardless.

You can't just ignore the shareholders in favour of the customer just because the customer expects a good deal for their purchase! What is this? Some crazy alternate reality where the damned reds won?



*(I mean companies in the wider sense before someone goes "not this indie company I want to marry")

 Overread wrote:
The trick is showing them that not doing that costs them more money in lost sales

Careful, I've heard it said in this thread that advocating against buying a poor product is an objectively evil act!

I never said anything about a "lets not buy stuff". You'll never organise anything like that. But its more about showing the potential loss of sales from those who aren't buying right now.

Those who are already not buying today and showing that they are a viable market if GW makes key changes to product improvement.

Furthermore its about showing that those who reduce, slow or stop buying are being pushed out by elements GW could improve upon to retain those customers.





It's not about protesting its about displaying purchasing trends and patterns and showing that there are ways GW could improve upon those patterns.

Of course its a hard sell right now when GW has trouble just supplying the market they have. They don't actually need more sales.



It's basically the same as how people showed that bloodbowl and other specialist games were a market GW was missing out on. They didn't just bring bloodbowl back because they love it; but also because of likely seeing multiple kickstarters running and generating high income from a concept GW had coined and done. So the best way would likely be something like a paid rules system. Or a game with very tight rules outselling or creeping up on GW's market. It's a shame Warmachine fell apart at 3rd edition because that would have been the best thing. A tight game with good rules taking hold and building and gaining a bigger and bigger market share and showing GW that there was profit and customers in good rules.

 Overread wrote:
The trick is showing them that not doing that costs them more money in lost sales

The fact they're racking in insane amounts of money while doing so, clearly shows the opposite.

 Overread wrote:

It's basically the same as how people showed that bloodbowl and other specialist games were a market GW was missing out on. They didn't just bring bloodbowl back because they love it; but also because of likely seeing multiple kickstarters running and generating high income from a concept GW had coined and done. So the best way would likely be something like a paid rules system. Or a game with very tight rules outselling or creeping up on GW's market. It's a shame Warmachine fell apart at 3rd edition because that would have been the best thing. A tight game with good rules taking hold and building and gaining a bigger and bigger market share and showing GW that there was profit and customers in good rules.

Funny thing about Blood Bowl, content is at least functional (for the most part), unlike literally all Necromunda releases. Something else I find intriguing, for Blood Bowl, all the fluffy extra content is pretty much ignored by players. No discussions online for cards, optional spike content or anything else. For Necromunda, people are discussing in great detail all the additional content. I fully agree about Warmachine. Even better would be to separate miniatures and rules, like historic miniature games tend to do because there's no IP on history.

I don't get why a fluffy, loose RPG-like experience means that consistency and actual functional rules don't matter! To put it in extreme, why would anyone need to buy loosely written rules that doesn't work? I'd be perfectly able of doing that myself. Keep in mind I haven't even mentioned balance yet. I'm not a competitive player and balance would be the least of my concerns currently. I played Cursed City recently, I imagine that's a loose RPG-like experience too, and while I didn't read thoroughly through the rules (believe it or not, I tend not to!), it worked pretty much out of the box. Again, unlike literally all Necromunda releases.

Baxx (or anyone else), could we list the writers of all the boxes and books to see if there is any consistency in writers. If there aren't consistent writers then we might have already found a problem. If we have a central figure with no consistent rules then we have a Gav Thorpe issue.

Modern Necromunda very much resembles early D&D with multiple versions overlapping and sometime confusing different, but D&D was popular A) in spite of, or B) because of, the many different versions. Necromunda is the only side game getting regular new content (minis as well as books) so I can't see the things people complain about here as major problems to consumers. I'll guess that most Necromunda consumers are not actually playing the game...much like most of GW's customers. But what's worst for players of the game s that this model may be the only sustainable one for Necromunda. A small team with quarterly releases, that if increased in size wouldn't be profitable and if stretched out would lose momentum and be declared dead. GW isn't a monolith, it has clear teams working on certain projects and so long as the second tier games don't eat resources from the mainline they seem to let them be.

GW is about to gamble big on Horus Heresy, but if that gamble doesn't pay off that could be the end of that game. It may be better to stay off the radar and make small profits than to bring the attention of the main studio and risk the gravy train being dismantled.

If HH is a gamble, I'd hate to see what a sure thing looks like.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
The warcom article states

a complete set of new vehicle rules for gangs, including adding the Cargo-8 Ridgehauler,* Ridgerunners, Wolfquads, and Rockgrinders to your rosters

That's some welcome news.

I'd still have put the humble Rhino in there

Poor Rhino, these days everyone just thinks of it as a marine tank.

Going to be honest, I haven't seen a 'marine' Rhino in quite a while. Its a Sisters tank chassis now.
That said, I'd be confused if Enforcers don't have Rhinos.

Squat Vartijan Exo-Driller



https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/16/the-squats-make-battlesuits-out-of-mining-equipment-and-corpses-out-of-other-gangs

Odd looking thing. Mantic-like

 zedmeister wrote:

Odd looking thing. Mantic-like

Amazingly odd, or oddly amazing? Either way, I must have it.

Any Nordic speakers able to help with the pronuncian of Vartijan? I assume the ij is like a dipthong? Vart-iyan?

Not sure yet what to find of it. What is interesting though is that there is mention of female Squats.

I like it.

Huh. Wonder if it means that the League isn't going to have an Exo-suit re-imagining. Because this is really plainly one of the old Eggs, embiggen-ed.

I'll give it to GW, though. They're remarkably consistent about making me wonder what mega-suit wearing models are doing with their legs and arms- from the head positioning, the operator is pressed right up against the chest piece, and, well. I wouldn't want to have legs like that for any length of time.
That aside, it looks pretty good.

Not a fan personally but I don't dislike it either. I'm glad it exists regardless. Viva la Squats!

When did GW switch from "Squats never existed and we ran out of ideas for them, who wants Space Dwarf Bikers and guys in suits of power armour that look like eggs, amiright?" to "LET US JAM WIRES STRAIGHT INTO THE NOSTALGIA CENTRES OF YOUR BRAIN"

Because I am totally on board with that shift in thinking.

They call this rig the Wrongdemptor Dreadnot.

Stompy lad. I like.

The flamer hands a gun?

Exo Armour.

That doesn’t look like bum?

Sign. Me. Up.

 Malika2 wrote:
Not sure yet what to find of it. What is interesting though is that there is mention of female Squats.

The biker squat in 40k is female. Not sure about the necromunda ones though

Looking forward to seeing literally the same people who hated on the same thing done by Mantic gobble this one up.


Anyway I like how the flamer has 2 barrels, 3 pilot lights and shoots bullets.

Oh my!

We are looking at so many reveals that is it possible that these are closer to a release than we might think ?

The new suit is distinct and somewhat squatty. I like its different from anything we have seen in 40k yet it fits so well.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Looking forward to seeing literally the same people who hated on the same thing done by Mantic gobble this one up.


Anyway I like how the flamer has 2 barrels, 3 pilot lights and shoots bullets.

Sigh.

the suit’s also armed with a Squat-made heavy flamer – which can be replaced with a heavy bolter for even more serious killing potential.

Model has the flamer, picture has the bolter.

"Need a light?"

Baxx wrote:
I don't get why a fluffy, loose RPG-like experience means that consistency and actual functional rules don't matter!

Because that's not true, whatever people try to tell you. Fact is, the overwhelming majority of actual RPGs are completely functional out of the box. Basically anything outside starter boxes.

I wonder if it would look better in Red.

 zedmeister wrote:
Squat Vartijan Exo-Driller



https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/16/the-squats-make-battlesuits-out-of-mining-equipment-and-corpses-out-of-other-gangs

Odd looking thing. Mantic-like

well except both having similar weapons and being a walker, I don't see any similarities






the squat walker is more Ad-Mech like than Mantic-like

I wonder if it could fit into GSC, aesthetically I mean.

It's okay. I would have preferred a huge drill on the hand, like that one Killa Kan bit. Easy enough conversion, though.

I love the Squats crew, and their walker is no exception!

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Looking forward to seeing literally the same people who hated on the same thing done by Mantic gobble this one up.


Anyway I like how the flamer has 2 barrels, 3 pilot lights and shoots bullets.

I think these would be the closer mantis analog: https://www.manticgames.com/games/deadzone/forge-fathers/forge-fathers-forge-guard/

I think the GW model is clearly a better more integrated look. I don’t think it is unreasonable at all to like the GW model and not like these mantic models. The models other folks noted above I think are more dreadnought equivalent than terminator/exo-armor equivalent of this new mining suit.

JWBS wrote:
They call this rig the Wrongdemptor Dreadnot.

Baxx wrote:

I don't get why a fluffy, loose RPG-like experience means that consistency and actual functional rules don't matter! To put it in extreme, why would anyone need to buy loosely written rules that doesn't work? I'd be perfectly able of doing that myself. Keep in mind I haven't even mentioned balance yet. I'm not a competitive player and balance would be the least of my concerns currently. I played Cursed City recently, I imagine that's a loose RPG-like experience too, and while I didn't read thoroughly through the rules (believe it or not, I tend not to!), it worked pretty much out of the box. Again, unlike literally all Necromunda releases.

 Albertorius wrote:

Because that's not true, whatever people try to tell you. Fact is, the overwhelming majority of actual RPGs are completely functional out of the box. Basically anything outside starter boxes.

Necromunda is functional, though. There are thousands of people playing and completing games and campaigns every day.

Versus one guy for whom <1% of the system's rules being irrevocably broken makes it "literally" (sic) unplayable.

Either/Or wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Looking forward to seeing literally the same people who hated on the same thing done by Mantic gobble this one up.


Anyway I like how the flamer has 2 barrels, 3 pilot lights and shoots bullets.

I think these would be the closer mantis analog: https://www.manticgames.com/games/deadzone/forge-fathers/forge-fathers-forge-guard/.

I don't think the Squat is on a 25mm base, not even a 40mm base like Termis but rather 60mm base which makes it a Walker and not heavy infantry

Ain't that always the way?

You wait forever for a Squat army and two come along at once.

JWBS wrote:
I wonder if it could fit into GSC, aesthetically I mean.

I think If I were building a mining rig for GSC I'd want it four armed and purple.

It would fit if a GSC squat was pilotting it. A normal human likely won't fit in the cockpit.

GSC mind control and infected everyone they can, they steal and use everything they can get their hands on, the aesthetic does not matter, if anything, they want to avoid suspicion and would only slap on those GSC symbol, stencil, or sticker on during the revolt phase.

"If you like this and didn't like Mantic's suits you're a hypocrite!"

They're no the same. Duh.

Anyway, I do like the Forge Fathers (I just dislike Mantic as a whole), and I really like this.

Also, this didn't take long:

Okay..that's might be most of the way towards the GSC aesthetic I was trying to find.

 Altruizine wrote:

Versus one guy for whom <1% of the system's rules being irrevocably broken makes it "literally" (sic) unplayable.

The game got 20 books and thousands of pages. Always nice to skew statistics to support your argument. On the other hand I could point to countless problems of various sorts.

Careful Baxx. Argue too much and you'll be accused of not actually playing the game.

Baxx wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:

Versus one guy for whom <1% of the system's rules being irrevocably broken makes it "literally" (sic) unplayable.

The game got 20 books and thousands of pages. Always nice to skew statistics to support your argument. On the other hand I could point to countless problems of various sorts.

Very few of which you'll actually run into or which will prevent a game from being completed between amicable opponents.

You're the one who is manipulating statistics to conceal reality. You've identified a small group of rules that do, technically, make the game "literally unplayable" ... in the sense that if you programmed a computer to simulate infinite games of Necromunda it would eventually run into unsolvable problems... but which do not, on any appreciable scale of actual human experience, prevent people from playing the game. Or do you think people are getting stunlocked by bad rules and just stumbling away from tables, abandoning their miniatures, and becoming tragic Necromundamnesiacs?

I'm liking the Exo-Driller.

The head needs a bit of work to look better, but very manageable.

 aka_mythos wrote:

JWBS wrote:
I wonder if it could fit into GSC, aesthetically I mean.

I think If I were building a mining rig for GSC I'd want it four armed and purple.

I just stuck a couple of extra arms on the Ambot. Down to just a single Heavy Support choice now, GSC need some up-gunned mining rigs!

 Altruizine wrote:

Baxx wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:

Versus one guy for whom <1% of the system's rules being irrevocably broken makes it "literally" (sic) unplayable.

The game got 20 books and thousands of pages. Always nice to skew statistics to support your argument. On the other hand I could point to countless problems of various sorts.

Very few of which you'll actually run into or which will prevent a game from being completed between amicable opponents.

You're the one who is manipulating statistics to conceal reality. You've identified a small group of rules that do, technically, make the game "literally unplayable" ... in the sense that if you programmed a computer to simulate infinite games of Necromunda it would eventually run into unsolvable problems... but which do not, on any appreciable scale of actual human experience, prevent people from playing the game. Or do you think people are getting stunlocked by bad rules and just stumbling away from tables, abandoning their miniatures, and becoming tragic Necromundamnesiacs?

The thing is in a campaign it doesn't matter how many books exist, rules that are in play for the campaign are decided before starting it. And there's also (or it should be at least) an arbiter that solves any controversies. And Necromunda doesn't really have a great appeal outside campaigns or even single games but with a very friendly attitude in mind. That's why a "mess" like that is not really an issue, while it would be a dumpster fire for something like 40k which is mostly played around random pick up games and has to be much more standardized and clean.

 Blackie wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:

Baxx wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:

Versus one guy for whom <1% of the system's rules being irrevocably broken makes it "literally" (sic) unplayable.

The game got 20 books and thousands of pages. Always nice to skew statistics to support your argument. On the other hand I could point to countless problems of various sorts.

Very few of which you'll actually run into or which will prevent a game from being completed between amicable opponents.

You're the one who is manipulating statistics to conceal reality. You've identified a small group of rules that do, technically, make the game "literally unplayable" ... in the sense that if you programmed a computer to simulate infinite games of Necromunda it would eventually run into unsolvable problems... but which do not, on any appreciable scale of actual human experience, prevent people from playing the game. Or do you think people are getting stunlocked by bad rules and just stumbling away from tables, abandoning their miniatures, and becoming tragic Necromundamnesiacs?

The thing is in a campaign it doesn't matter how many books exist, rules that are in play for the campaign are decided before starting it. And there's also (or it should be at least) an arbiter that solves any controversies. And Necromunda doesn't really have a great appeal outside campaigns or even single games but with a very friendly attitude in mind. That's why a "mess" like that is not really an issue, while it would be a dumpster fire for something like 40k which is mostly played around random pick up games and has to be much more standardized and clean.

I am 100% behind Baxx on this.
Necromunda rules are a bloated dumpster fire - but despite of this I really enjoy collecting and playing it.
Playing mostly friendly pick up games as I have found it impossible to make people look past the complex and messy rules and agree to playing campaigns.

 Altruizine wrote:

Very few of which you'll actually run into or which will prevent a game from being completed between amicable opponents.

Very few is hard to measure. I got hundreds of examples. How many are eventually run into is hard to quantify. This is going off topic so I'd be happy to continue elsewhere if you're interested.

 kodos wrote:

Either/Or wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Looking forward to seeing literally the same people who hated on the same thing done by Mantic gobble this one up.


Anyway I like how the flamer has 2 barrels, 3 pilot lights and shoots bullets.

I think these would be the closer mantis analog: https://www.manticgames.com/games/deadzone/forge-fathers/forge-fathers-forge-guard/.

I don't think the Squat is on a 25mm base, not even a 40mm base like Termis but rather 60mm base which makes it a Walker and not heavy infantry

I’m guessing a 40mm base like the Van Saar Arachni-rig. The article calls it a brute and as far as I tell the rest of FW’s brutes are on 40mm bases.

Some shiny new next week for Ash Wastes.

Extended Hab, which I think we only saw in a piccie, and the assumption was a conversion



Standard Hab Module



Platforms and Walkways

Why are there crates and tarps and presumably other stuff stored on the side of a raised hab, with no way to reach them.

Are those not hatches top right and bottom left of the roof?

I’ve not seen the kit in person, so not a snarky question.\



Seems those aren’t, but there is a hatch on the small one - so likely one on the big one.

For those who have picked up the Ash Wastes stuff, how stable are the smaller hab buildings?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Are those not hatches top right and bottom left of the roof?

I’ve not seen the kit in person, so not a snarky question.\



Seems those aren’t, but there is a hatch on the small one - so likely one on the big one.

No; one hatch per roof. It’s the circular one on the right of your picture. It does have matching detailing on the inside with slots to install a ladder piece so that you can actually use it though.

 cole1114 wrote:
Why are there crates and tarps and presumably other stuff stored on the side of a raised hab, with no way to reach them.

In space, no one can read HSE ACOPs

I'd think that the nomads are rather spry and adept at needing the minimalist of handholds/ledges.

Im curious to see the price on these individual kits.

£30 for the small and £40 for the double one I bet.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Are those not hatches top right and bottom left of the roof?

I’ve not seen the kit in person, so not a snarky question.\

Spoiler:

Seems those aren’t, but there is a hatch on the small one - so likely one on the big one.

No; one hatch per roof. It’s the circular one on the right of your picture. It does have matching detailing on the inside with slots to install a ladder piece so that you can actually use it though.

I think the Doc is referring to the image of the painted double hab, though I don't know where the sprue pic comes into play if that's the case.

Having said that, there is at least one hatch visible on the roof of the double/expanded hab, in about the same position as the one on the single hab module roof.

Which would make sense since the double is almost certainly a single with just one new sprue that extends the middle.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Are those not hatches top right and bottom left of the roof?

I’ve not seen the kit in person, so not a snarky question.\

Spoiler:

Seems those aren’t, but there is a hatch on the small one - so likely one on the big one.

No; one hatch per roof. It’s the circular one on the right of your picture. It does have matching detailing on the inside with slots to install a ladder piece so that you can actually use it though.

I think the Doc is referring to the image of the painted double hab, though I don't know where the sprue pic comes into play if that's the case.

Having said that, there is at least one hatch visible on the roof of the double/expanded hab, in about the same position as the one on the single hab module roof.

Yeah I looked quite closely but unless there is a hatch hidden behind the water tank, there’s only one on that roof. Having said that, you can assemble the roof parts to have one lid with two doors, if you are prepared to accept having one with no doors. So you could have a large hab (or an extra-large; I think the splitting of the ‘feet’ may be more cunning than it seemed at first) with two roof accesses if you wanted.

On the subject of the Habs, Owen Patten was posting tips on the new terrain... but now all the posts are gone.

Weird...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
On the subject of the Habs, Owen Patten was posting tips on the new terrain... but now all the posts are gone.

Weird...

Dangit! Those tips are invaluable! Hope they show back up somewhere.

This is why I saved them all, including the notes for each one.

62.5 euros the houses and walkways, and 85 the big houses

Thatos Pattern Extended Hab Module £65 €85 $110
Thatos Pattern Hab Module £47.50 €62.50 $80
Thatos Pattern Platform and Walkways £47.50 €62.50 $80

EDIT US prices now confirmed

Hmmm the $110/€85 is an exchange rate price rise as it used to be £65 was €80/$95

I really like the look of the habitats, but the price does raise an eyebrow, especially if one were looking to create a larger outpost with walkways linking multiple units together. Then again, as always there's options out there for folks unafraid to build their own, and the GW designs do serve as fine inspiration for such.

I wonder if the tips will reappear behind a paywall in Warhammer Plus or as a WD article.

I mean why give the goodies away for free amirite?

 cole1114 wrote:
Why are there crates and tarps and presumably other stuff stored on the side of a raised hab, with no way to reach them.

Inside is full of boxes of models.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I wonder if the tips will reappear behind a paywall in Warhammer Plus or as a WD article.

I mean why give the goodies away for free amirite?

At least two of the “tips” could have been replaced by page references for the assembly guide and lost nothing though, so maybe they are going to reissue them but with actual content?

GW has always been 'difficult' about members of staff posting hobby stuff on their social media (even gw related hobby stuff)...

i've followed a couple of folk who now have staff roles in Nottingham and seen them prune a lot of the stuff they used to have up before they were hired, and not post in any detail even about the stuff they're directly involved in, and in one case actually hired to promote

so it wouldn't surprise me is his posts came to the official notice of head office and he's been told to stop (stupid though that would be)

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
GW has always been 'difficult' about members of staff posting hobby stuff on their social media (even gw related hobby stuff)...

IIRC Owen (and Ray Dranfield) both have permission to post stuff, and Owen's older stuff is still up - https://twitter.com/Owen_Patten/moments

Oh well, very odd

(but hopefully if they've got permission it might reappear if for example the server the images were hosted on has gone down and they've pulled the post for something like that)

 DaveC wrote:
Thatos Pattern Extended Hab Module £65 €85 ($95/$100)
Thatos Pattern Hab Module £47.50 €62.50 $80
Thatos Pattern Platform and Walkways £47.50 €62.50 $80

As always US price based on GW online store as US price list releases later in the day

Hmmm €85 is an exchange rate price rise as it used to be £65 was €80.

Ahahahahahahaha

That's like double the price per sprue compared to what Sector Machanicus is priced even in individual piece boxes.

Eat gak, GW. Luckily I picked up a whole second Ash Wastes terrain set for 50€

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
Thatos Pattern Extended Hab Module £65 €85 ($95/$100)
Thatos Pattern Hab Module £47.50 €62.50 $80
Thatos Pattern Platform and Walkways £47.50 €62.50 $80

As always US price based on GW online store as US price list releases later in the day

Hmmm €85 is an exchange rate price rise as it used to be £65 was €80.

Ahahahahahahaha

That's like double the price per sprue compared to what Sector Machanicus is priced even in individual piece boxes.

Eat gak, GW. Luckily I picked up a whole second Ash Wastes terrain set for 50€

Wow! Prices are ridiculous. GW can keep their plastics.

Yeah... nope.

Strikes me as most likely they were just told to hold the posts off until the day the kits go up for pre-order to help drum up interest.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
GW has always been 'difficult' about members of staff posting hobby stuff on their social media (even gw related hobby stuff)...

i've followed a couple of folk who now have staff roles in Nottingham and seen them prune a lot of the stuff they used to have up before they were hired, and not post in any detail even about the stuff they're directly involved in, and in one case actually hired to promote

so it wouldn't surprise me is his posts came to the official notice of head office and he's been told to stop (stupid though that would be)

Given how incredibly well designed the scenery is for cross compatibility, I’m utterly baffled, and will always be utterly baffled, that GW don’t put Owen’s stuff on their own websites.

I mean…..why?

You want to justify the cost of your goodies? Show how well they interact, in ways your competition might not.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
Thatos Pattern Extended Hab Module £65 €85 ($95/$100)
Thatos Pattern Hab Module £47.50 €62.50 $80
Thatos Pattern Platform and Walkways £47.50 €62.50 $80

As always US price based on GW online store as US price list releases later in the day

Hmmm €85 is an exchange rate price rise as it used to be £65 was €80.

Ahahahahahahaha

That's like double the price per sprue compared to what Sector Machanicus is priced even in individual piece boxes.

Eat gak, GW. Luckily I picked up a whole second Ash Wastes terrain set for 50€

Yep, we saw it with the new 40k terrain. Around £15-20 per sprue. These new Necro habs at £47.50 look to give you 3 big sprues. ~£16 a sprue, whereas before it was typically under £10 for sector mechanicus and imperialis. Its a hefty rise to put terrain on a equivalent, or nearer, cost for an amount of plastic.

GW unit boxes are basically a big sprue folded in half to fit, in 40k equivalent a Primaris marine box is £36 for 4 'half' sprues, (£18 per big sprue). For Necromunda gangs a box is £28 for 2 half sprues (1 big sprue). But at least with gangs you only need 1/2 boxes.

I certainly wont be going full into new terrain now as i have enough older stuff. Mechanicus stuff felt cheap and I didnt mind, ZM stuff didnt stretch as far and started to get pricey quick. Ash wastes is going to be as expensive for an 'enough to be interesting but not bland' table. A tough position for new players tho. It used to be the saying that terrain was a 3rd army on the table, it used to be affordable but really is the case now if army OR terrain for majority of folks.

There is some level of ability to enforce use of GW models in an army. There is absolutely no method of enforcement for scenery, and while the GW stuff is nice, is it THAT nice, compared to spending an our or so drybrushing some kind of electrical fitting with gubbinz glued to it?

 Flinty wrote:
There is some level of ability to enforce use of GW models in an army. There is absolutely no method of enforcement for scenery, and while the GW stuff is nice, is it THAT nice, compared to spending an our or so drybrushing some kind of electrical fitting with gubbinz glued to it?

Didn't GW try to pull some "each participant must bring half a table's worth of GW terrain to 40k tournaments" gak in the 9th edition rulebook? Luckily it was launched into the middle of lockdown so it never got off the ground?

I can't say I am comfortable with Ash Wastes boxed set and individual scenery prices. I guess I can afford to skip them for now and invest funds into Horus Heresy instead. Especially as I have a good amount of Zone Mortalis yet unbuilt.

Making sensible hobby related decisions is not something I am familiar with. I guess that is the main reason why I am feeling uncomfortable.

Furthermore, not everyone can do minis but most can build terrain from daily objects and cheap materials.
Making these even less necessary.

So ash wastes box set was 2 small hubs and one platform? £142.5 in terrain right there.
GW your drunk.

Well the Thatos Pattern Extended Hab Module is actually confirmed at $110 which is also an exchange rate price rise as £65 used to be $95 so my $95/$100 based on current pricing was out.

Confirmed pricing for GBP, Euro and USD

Thatos Pattern Extended Hab Module £65 €85 $110
Thatos Pattern Hab Module £47.50 €62.50 $80
Thatos Pattern Platform and Walkways £47.50 €62.50 $80

Terrain is crazy money outside of the boxsets.

Those are some wild prices. I guess they must be really big? Still about 2x as expensive as I would consider a tempting price.

I'll be interested to see where these terrain sprues are manufactured,

the big price change (not the exchange rate one) might be the difference between Made in China terrain & Made in the UK if GW has got to the point that coordinating supply is just too inconvenient

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I'll be interested to see where these terrain sprues are manufactured,

the big price change (not the exchange rate one) might be the difference between Made in China terrain & Made in the UK if GW has got to the point that coordinating supply is just too inconvenient

Dude, the injection molding is the same no matter the country. Labour is off a minimal cost in any highly automated process. It comes down to land value and taxes versus transportation cost from the otherwise of the world (where your sub-contractor has to pay for land value and taxes).

The difference in price is at best perceived "value" of being produced in the UK. A more likely US price increase is because it might cost more to ship items from the UK to the US versus China to the US, but I'm sceptical about that. I mean if the big market is the US, then why are kits made in the...

The company where I work do our own injection molding, but the tools are made in China, because the big cost for us is the toolmaking.

The only made in China GW parts I have (that I'm aware of) are the old promethium pipes, and they were definitely made in a different plastic. Heavier and more brittle, if I recall correctly.

Oh and maybe that old Dreadstone Blight kit with the wall sections that weren't on a sprue.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I'll be interested to see where these terrain sprues are manufactured

The "Necromunda: Ash Wastes" box says "Made in the UK" (whereas the "Battlezone: Fronteris – Nachmund" box says "Designed in the UK, made in China").

GW’s pricing strategy has become absurd. Charging 110 USD for what should be 80at the exchange rate is just something I’m not willing to do put up with anymore. Why they think it’s reasonable to penalize and price gouge certain regions is beyond me.

Dread Master wrote:
GW’s pricing strategy has become absurd. Charging 110 USD for what should be 80at the exchange rate is just something I’m not willing to do put up with anymore. Why they think it’s reasonable to penalize and price gouge certain regions is beyond me.

Literally every company does this, except pretty much all others are cheapest in the US for some reason.

Dread Master wrote:
GW’s pricing strategy has become absurd. Charging 110 USD for what should be 80at the exchange rate is just something I’m not willing to do put up with anymore. Why they think it’s reasonable to penalize and price gouge certain regions is beyond me.

I suspect it has something to do with the country's overhead costs (warehouse, stores, etc) being folded into the cost for only that region. Not sure what UK is looking like, but everything is getting mighty expensive around here.

KillerAngel wrote:

Dread Master wrote:
GW’s pricing strategy has become absurd. Charging 110 USD for what should be 80at the exchange rate is just something I’m not willing to do put up with anymore. Why they think it’s reasonable to penalize and price gouge certain regions is beyond me.

I suspect it has something to do with the country's overhead costs (warehouse, stores, etc) being folded into the cost for only that region. Not sure what UK is looking like, but everything is getting mighty expensive around here.

Recent news claims the average family with 2 kids is seeing an increase in their assorted costs of living of around £400 a month, compared to last year. We're screwed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61501778

Yeah. It’s gotten really ugly really quickly.

They want to charge AUD$165 for a dinky little hab building?

Yeah right...

Well they sent a bunch of 30k starter boxes to several youtube influencers. Those $300 USD boxes they gave away have to be paid for somehow

beast_gts wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I'll be interested to see where these terrain sprues are manufactured

The "Necromunda: Ash Wastes" box says "Made in the UK" (whereas the "Battlezone: Fronteris – Nachmund" box says "Designed in the UK, made in China").

if its a sprue its usual made in the UK. if its a piece of terrain / really thick plastic item its usual made in China

i read a report on copy , copying , knock offs or ip produces.
european companies are having generic items ie: huge figures ,hills , terrain or buildings made in china but the items most associated with their brand are made back in Europe.
to keep control of the brand.

prices are rising
plastic is sadly part of the petro-chemical industry

I was going to buy a whole new table worth of ash wastes terrain from GW, but at these prices I hesitate. Then, combined with my new large format 3D printer and the plentiful knock off terrain files that will be compatible means that I will just wait.

Eventually, once work gets less busy, I'll just make a compatible set of elevated wasteland buildings. The game could use big elevated platforms to have more vertical play anyway.

The new gangs though, those I'll buy.

 Vertrucio wrote:
I was going to buy a whole new table worth of ash wastes terrain from GW, but at these prices I hesitate. Then, combined with my new large format 3D printer and the plentiful knock off terrain files that will be compatible means that I will just wait.

Eventually, once work gets less busy, I'll just make a compatible set of elevated wasteland buildings. The game could use big elevated platforms to have more vertical play anyway.

The new gangs though, those I'll buy.

There's also this https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/digitaltaxidermy/spool-tower-2-the-re-spoolening

beast_gts wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I'll be interested to see where these terrain sprues are manufactured

The "Necromunda: Ash Wastes" box says "Made in the UK" (whereas the "Battlezone: Fronteris – Nachmund" box says "Designed in the UK, made in China").

I remember checking my Zone Mortalis boxes a while back for this very thing. I’m on holiday so can’t check, but if memory serves the Gang Stronghold was just made in U.K.?

KillerAngel wrote:

Dread Master wrote:
GW’s pricing strategy has become absurd. Charging 110 USD for what should be 80at the exchange rate is just something I’m not willing to do put up with anymore. Why they think it’s reasonable to penalize and price gouge certain regions is beyond me.

I suspect it has something to do with the country's overhead costs (warehouse, stores, etc) being folded into the cost for only that region. Not sure what UK is looking like, but everything is getting mighty expensive around here.

If the big market is the US then the kits should be made in the US, not the UK nor China.

As a Canadian all my GW comes from the US warehouse, next day air…for “free”.

 Chairman Aeon wrote:
If the big market is the US then the kits should be made in the US, not the UK nor China.

Trade sales (Six months to 28 November 2021): UK & Continental Europe £44.8 m, North America £47.8 m
Retail sales (Six months to 28 November 2021): UK £11.8 m, Continental Europe £9.5 m, North America £16.2 m

 rockgod2304 wrote:
prices are rising
plastic is sadly part of the petro-chemical industry

And still makes a fraction of a fraction of the actual cost of a kit, so...

Cost of materials tripled from 4 cents to 12 cents, so naturally the price of a kit goes up by 20€

 Chairman Aeon wrote:

KillerAngel wrote:

Dread Master wrote:
GW’s pricing strategy has become absurd. Charging 110 USD for what should be 80at the exchange rate is just something I’m not willing to do put up with anymore. Why they think it’s reasonable to penalize and price gouge certain regions is beyond me.

I suspect it has something to do with the country's overhead costs (warehouse, stores, etc) being folded into the cost for only that region. Not sure what UK is looking like, but everything is getting mighty expensive around here.

If the big market is the US then the kits should be made in the US, not the UK nor China.

As a Canadian all my GW comes from the US warehouse, next day air…for “free”.

I believe GW tried and hit problems with production in the USA. I think the core issue was that there was no skill base that they could easily access with experience of using their machines. So any breakdown, problem or error resulted in them having to move key staff from the UK to the USA or equipment back the other way for repairs/fixing/problem solving. I think there were other issues as well, but the end result was that GW couldn't make it work better than just having a single production hub and then shipping out what is needed.

And in fairness a vast majority of firms work the same way; single or limited geography production which is them shipped out worldwide. It generally works really well too, its just the Corona period which has unsettled that whole system to the extreme. Heck GW recently expanded their warehousing and production facilities in the UK to clearly allow for bigger overseas shipments to smooth out the supply of product. Which never really got to happen because Corona rolled in right after GW was setup.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I remember checking my Zone Mortalis boxes a while back for this very thing. I’m on holiday so can’t check, but if memory serves the Gang Stronghold was just made in U.K.?

My Gang Stronghold box says "Made in the UK", and the market is "Designed in the UK, made in China".

 Chairman Aeon wrote:

KillerAngel wrote:

Dread Master wrote:
GW’s pricing strategy has become absurd. Charging 110 USD for what should be 80at the exchange rate is just something I’m not willing to do put up with anymore. Why they think it’s reasonable to penalize and price gouge certain regions is beyond me.

I suspect it has something to do with the country's overhead costs (warehouse, stores, etc) being folded into the cost for only that region. Not sure what UK is looking like, but everything is getting mighty expensive around here.

If the big market is the US then the kits should be made in the US, not the UK nor China.

As a Canadian all my GW comes from the US warehouse, next day air…for “free”.

It's not about the US market being "bigger" just potentially higher overhead costs, which needs to get rolled into the cost of each product.

And I'm only guessing. Canadian pays a premium over UK prices as well btw.

Some build ideas from this guy https://www.instagram.com/p/Cd7-_nCtU5l/

Something is happening to Gw terrain because they are purging a lot of the old kits.. and while I do like the Hab bunker making a 3x3 board is insanely expensive and I thought the zone mortalis 3x3 board was bad… with 4 boards at 6x4 and 1 zone mortalis 3x3. I think I’m done starting new expensive terrain projects.

I think the best use of ash waste terrain is integrating it with sector mechanicus stuff unfortunately my sector mechanicus terrain is part of my frozen tundra, wall of martyrs, Aquila strongpoint, firestorm redoubt, plasma obliterator, gun emplacement, void shield generator, and tectonic fragdrill board. And a hab bunker wouldn’t really fit the theme. Egh maybe.. this thread does give me some ideas.

If I had to guess what's happening is 3D printers are going Brrr.

I would guess that GW terrain sales are dropping so their response is to charge more to the punters who still buy it. (Guilty as charged)

Kind of similar to how prices of print magazines and newspapers are rising much faster than inflation.

Yes, that clearly is the reason.

Has literally nothing to do with China's manufacturing being wildly unreliable at the best of times.

KillerAngel wrote:

And I'm only guessing. Canadian pays a premium over UK prices as well btw.

I will get no sympathy from H.B.M.C., but Canadian prices seem to include the extra cost of shipping from a US location rather than a Canadian one like in the now distant past. The "exchange" rates seem more "what the market will bear".

Also, anyone note the cost of FDM printers has gone up significantly...like more than inflation and more than resin printers have. Terrain is just getting more expensive it seems.

Spotted on the FB Necromunda Terrain Makers Group.

Wooden plant holders from Target.

That looks like a nice base

Damn I was there earlier and totally would've grabbed these if they had them

Definitely loads of potential in those. Just add Greeblies.

Possibly. And only because I’m paranoia, something a bit wider on the base? Ignore. Big pad has a proper base on it.

I can't find them on Target.com, this is the best I've found.

https://www.mercari.com/us/item/m92685113088/

 Overread wrote:

 Chairman Aeon wrote:

KillerAngel wrote:

Dread Master wrote:
GW’s pricing strategy has become absurd. Charging 110 USD for what should be 80at the exchange rate is just something I’m not willing to do put up with anymore. Why they think it’s reasonable to penalize and price gouge certain regions is beyond me.

I suspect it has something to do with the country's overhead costs (warehouse, stores, etc) being folded into the cost for only that region. Not sure what UK is looking like, but everything is getting mighty expensive around here.

If the big market is the US then the kits should be made in the US, not the UK nor China.

As a Canadian all my GW comes from the US warehouse, next day air…for “free”.

I believe GW tried and hit problems with production in the USA. I think the core issue was that there was no skill base that they could easily access with experience of using their machines. So any breakdown, problem or error resulted in them having to move key staff from the UK to the USA or equipment back the other way for repairs/fixing/problem solving. I think there were other issues as well, but the end result was that GW couldn't make it work better than just having a single production hub and then shipping out what is needed.

And in fairness a vast majority of firms work the same way; single or limited geography production which is them shipped out worldwide. It generally works really well too, its just the Corona period which has unsettled that whole system to the extreme. Heck GW recently expanded their warehousing and production facilities in the UK to clearly allow for bigger overseas shipments to smooth out the supply of product. Which never really got to happen because Corona rolled in right after GW was setup.

Corona and Brexit.

Brexit is a key contributing factor to how fethed the UK's supply chains are at the moment.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Yes, that clearly is the reason.

Has literally nothing to do with China's manufacturing being wildly unreliable at the best of times.

Chinese manufacturing is.... completely fine? GW isn't hiring recasters to make their stuff. There's nothing about china that makes its manufacturing unreliable, or else businesses wouldn't manufacture so much there.

stratigo wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Chairman Aeon wrote:

KillerAngel wrote:

Dread Master wrote:
GW’s pricing strategy has become absurd. Charging 110 USD for what should be 80at the exchange rate is just something I’m not willing to do put up with anymore. Why they think it’s reasonable to penalize and price gouge certain regions is beyond me.

I suspect it has something to do with the country's overhead costs (warehouse, stores, etc) being folded into the cost for only that region. Not sure what UK is looking like, but everything is getting mighty expensive around here.

If the big market is the US then the kits should be made in the US, not the UK nor China.

As a Canadian all my GW comes from the US warehouse, next day air…for “free”.

I believe GW tried and hit problems with production in the USA. I think the core issue was that there was no skill base that they could easily access with experience of using their machines. So any breakdown, problem or error resulted in them having to move key staff from the UK to the USA or equipment back the other way for repairs/fixing/problem solving. I think there were other issues as well, but the end result was that GW couldn't make it work better than just having a single production hub and then shipping out what is needed.

And in fairness a vast majority of firms work the same way; single or limited geography production which is them shipped out worldwide. It generally works really well too, its just the Corona period which has unsettled that whole system to the extreme. Heck GW recently expanded their warehousing and production facilities in the UK to clearly allow for bigger overseas shipments to smooth out the supply of product. Which never really got to happen because Corona rolled in right after GW was setup.

Corona and Brexit.

Brexit is a key contributing factor to how fethed the UK's supply chains are at the moment.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Yes, that clearly is the reason.

Has literally nothing to do with China's manufacturing being wildly unreliable at the best of times.

Chinese manufacturing is.... completely fine? GW isn't hiring recasters to make their stuff. There's nothing about china that makes its manufacturing unreliable, or else businesses wouldn't manufacture so much there.

1. There's a reason it's so cheap
2. Chinese are known for making bootlegs of a product you ask them to manufacture

stratigo wrote:
Chinese manufacturing is.... completely fine? GW isn't hiring recasters to make their stuff. There's nothing about china that makes its manufacturing unreliable, or else businesses wouldn't manufacture so much there.

For real?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

These are brilliant. Pretty easy to fabricate these with some basic woodworking tools.

And useful for other games as well.

Looks pretty impressive (and expensive)...

Bottom left. Sneak preview of new vehicles or not?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Bottom left. Sneak preview of new vehicles or not?

They're a smashed up GSC Jackal quad and Ridgerunner buggy

Ahh, I did wonder.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Spotted on the FB Necromunda Terrain Makers Group.

Wooden plant holders from Target.

No railings? Plunging to your death unavoidable? You sure this ain´t Star Wars?

I guess this means that that these aren't conversions after all...

On the subject of terrain though, whilst skimming through the Ash Waste book trying to find out exactly what a "Charge Caster" is, I came across some pictures that piqued my interest:

Some of these are artwork, but this I believe is of an actual model. I wonder if the top of this stack is just a regular stack that they've mangled to make into a ruin, or an actual ruined part from a new Ash Waste ruin kit?


This one is by far the more interesting one, as the top and bottom appear to be the same basic part, and there are big chunky connectors for the pipes. Is this something new? Can anyone identify where it's from? They appear to be quarter-height high, so half a Zone Mortalis level:


The next two I'm pretty sure are sketches, but depict similar things - Sector Mechanicus stacks with ruined parts:



And the last one could be a sketch or a photo. Note the large column of ruined stacks in the background, and the reoccurring ruined parts:


Could this be a taste of things to come?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
whilst skimming through the Ash Waste book trying to find out exactly what a "Charge Caster" is

Did you find an official answer? I'm assuming they're some kind of grenade / rocket launcher from what I've seen...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Some of these are artwork, but this I believe is of an actual model. I wonder if the top of this stack is just a regular stack that they've mangled to make into a ruin, or an actual ruined part from a new Ash Waste ruin kit?

They do look like someone has chopped up the (now OOP) stacks and stuck them back together, but there are bits I don't recognise. Perhaps there's something like the Ruined Manufactorum kit coming out?

Gonna guess those are conversions. The second picture especially, seems the new parts are octagonal, not round, and I suspect are chopped up regular wall panels.

On the Ash Wastes rulebook…can anyone recall if that’s coming separately, or am off on the eBay scrounge?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Never mind. Found a mint sealed copy on eBay with cards and counters for £41 delivered. Seemed reasonable enough.

Hope the mechanicus terrain is going to live on as more than just ”killzone Nachmund”, and further modular bits would be very welcome. I just bought a ton of mechanicus terrain I’d been neglecting so far and hope the recent spate of sku-busting was to make room for new compatible products.

I’ve also found the pics references above to be extremely inspirational, now there’s a battlefield I’d love to fight over.

Charge Caster is in the assembly guide. Basically it is a slightly shorter range missile launcher that trades -1AP for Shock on the frag.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Spotted on the FB Necromunda Terrain Makers Group.

Wooden plant holders from Target.

You post this, and I find that the official price for Ash Wastes in Japan is 42,300Y (332$) not that high compared to the US price but still a big chunk of money.

M.

Guy who orignally posted these got them for $5 each...

 schoon wrote:
These are brilliant. Pretty easy to fabricate these with some basic woodworking tools.

And useful for other games as well.

 schoon wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote: