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Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/01/30 14:25:09


Post by: BrookM


High time for a reboot.

HERE BE THE DISCUSSION OF NECROMUNDA NEWS AND RUMOURS, ANY AND ALL OTHER DISCUSSION, BE IT MINIATURE DESIGN, CUSTOM RULES AND WHATNOT GOES ELSEWHERE, MANY THANKS!

Latest: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/29/new-reveals-from-nuremberggw-homepage-post-1/





Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/01/30 14:44:01


Post by: zedmeister


So, with AT in Feb and AI in April, what we reckon for this? March?

Also, I hope we see some card and dice reprints...


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/01/30 14:56:23


Post by: Chopstick


Some of the page flip through show "Gangs of Legend". Wonder if the name has anything to do with the Gang of Legend pdf that they release.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/01/30 15:02:59


Post by: zamerion


 zedmeister wrote:
So, with AT in Feb and AI in April, what we reckon for this? March?



This is a small release, they can combine it with another game release.
So I hope it will be soon, and we don't have to wait 3 months for each "gang codex"


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/01/30 15:03:01


Post by: beast_gts


Still hoping Pit Slaves return in some form...


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/01/30 15:17:11


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Well, this promises Ogryn Slave Gangs, so I guess Pit Slaves can still be a thing in the future?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/01/30 15:18:34


Post by: Altruizine


Damn, interesting development for the future of the game.

I suppose it's reasonable to assume that the next year+ of releases will be a 'Juves & Elites/Champions' release alongside a "codex" for every gang (at least the major players; Cults probably don't need anything, and Enforcers already have two kits).

I'm really curious to see what the kit release(s) looks like. Is that one box, with one sprue for two Stimmers and one sprue for two Juves?

So much for all the wacky stuff previewed in convention powerpoints? Some of it was interesting, but I definitely think the best plan is to upgrade all of the extant gangs with new models.

There are so many people who hate the mountain of rules required for N18, so I'm rubbing my hands with glee awaiting complaints about the prospect of a new "codex" for every gang.



Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/01/30 16:06:51


Post by: Chairman Aeon


I’m wondering if these are the special versions of the minis we thought we were getting, but the sprues allow you to still make normal juves et al as well...


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/01/30 17:15:40


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Volume itself appears to be a Chunky Boi, which is interesting.

I reckon the Simmers and Forgeborn are simply additions, rather than gang specific replacements for Juves etc.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/01/30 18:58:26


Post by: Mr_Rose


Seems like it might be a deep dive sourcebook in addition to whatever else it contains ruleswise. I hope they aren’t too cliched…


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/01/30 19:13:38


Post by: Danny76


Somewhere in the other thread was the description of these guys wasn’t it that the new members get given the heavy weaponry as they may not survive etc..

And I’m sure somewhere it was said that at the seminar they said they’d be doing new boxes that make juves, alt champions and special weapon versions all in one.

That sound about right?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/01/30 20:23:54


Post by: kaiserjez


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Volume itself appears to be a Chunky Boi, which is interesting.

There was another pic on the Necromunda Facebook page that showed a much slimmer looking book
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=491962181505768&id=118619922173331#!/necromundauk/photos/a.122886388413351/491961061505880/?type=3&source=57&refid=52&__tn__=EH-R


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/01/30 20:29:05


Post by: MajorWesJanson


 kaiserjez wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Volume itself appears to be a Chunky Boi, which is interesting.

There was another pic on the Necromunda Facebook page that showed a much slimmer looking book


Probably not the actual book in the pic, just a render.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/01/30 21:14:50


Post by: H.B.M.C.


GW has implied that the miniature reveals so far are not the only releases that are coming with this book. So maybe Specialist have got a bit more room in the pipeline, allowing for more than 1 small sprue per quarter.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/01/30 21:35:30


Post by: Sqorgar


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
GW has implied that the miniature reveals so far are not the only releases that are coming with this book.
Where did they do that?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/01/30 22:38:13


Post by: Sqorgar


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Facebook.
It doesn't look like anything to me.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/01/30 22:45:16


Post by: Inquisitor Gideon


Cool, i'm all for fleshing out the gangs more. Just a shame they started with the Goliaths rather than Eschers.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/01/30 22:56:20


Post by: zamerion


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
GW has implied that the miniature reveals so far are not the only releases that are coming with this book. So maybe Specialist have got a bit more room in the pipeline, allowing for more than 1 small sprue per quarter.



I said them the other day that then we already knew that this year "codex" would be coming out for all gangs.

and they answered me :
Loads of exciting stuff coming soon

but as always they like to exaggerate ..


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/01/31 07:05:41


Post by: Insane Ivan


zamerion wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
GW has implied that the miniature reveals so far are not the only releases that are coming with this book. So maybe Specialist have got a bit more room in the pipeline, allowing for more than 1 small sprue per quarter.



I said them the other day that then we already knew that this year "codex" would be coming out for all gangs.

and they answered me :
Loads of exciting stuff coming soon

but as always they like to exaggerate ..

Elsewhere I saw a slide from a Necromunda presentation from a year ago or so where they indicated there’d be Forgeworkd Leader and Champion models, as in specific characters. Could very well be that with more Goliaths than what’s shown, they mean resin in addition to the plastic kit for Stimmers and Forgeborn...


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/01/31 07:24:55


Post by: MonkeyBallistic


I think it’s great news. Now that Necromunda has a good number of factions and some amazing modular scenery, it’s a good time to delve more deeply into each of the original gangs.

Like others have said, I do wish they’d release models for some of the gaps in the range. I’d love to see minis for the guild representatives. The guilds were a fantastic addition to the lore and showed that the main gangs are just a part of a wider society.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/01/31 11:01:32


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


The welding mask dude has me intrigued.

My Goliath GSC is looking more and more likely.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/01/31 23:31:48


Post by: AegisGrimm


Kinda funny that Goliath stimmers are the size of Primaris Marines. Certainly makes them impressive as a gang.

I don't know if I would really hate it if mostly-adult prospects replaced Juves, though. Makes progression to ganger in a campaign make more sense than the old "kid suddenly becomes an adult after two battles" from the original. "Newbie adult gaining battlefield experience" instead.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/01/31 23:41:08


Post by: Starfarer


While I'm not crazy about new books for each major release, I also remember the lack of sales for a small overall range is largely what sink the original Necromunda. So having mostly optional books for factions is a great chance to dive into each house culture and lore, and also give GW revenue for factions that otherwise might be relegated to the original release and see nothing else otherwise.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/01 12:29:15


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Just received my Hive Warzone set, and it’s missing a sprue.

Thankfully it’s just the plasma conduits which I’ve loads of already. Just wondering if anyone else’s was a mis pack?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/01 15:06:30


Post by: Barksdale


I got plasma conduits in all three of mine


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/01 15:37:19


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Only got on sprue, should’ve been two.

Ah well.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/01 15:39:15


Post by: Tastyfish


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
GW has implied that the miniature reveals so far are not the only releases that are coming with this book. So maybe Specialist have got a bit more room in the pipeline, allowing for more than 1 small sprue per quarter.


That'd make sense, as the two other guys on the cover seem like they're new guys as well. The heavy armoured welder type and one of the two bosses (the one with cranial bionics on the cover, and a fat king guy who features in some interior artwork).
In the flick through it also looks like the Stimmers and the Forgeborn are either on a double page spread each, or there are at least two units between those entries.
And if they are on double pages, there's another two units with equipment options on the four pages after the Forgeborn.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/01 15:51:41


Post by: BrookM


We're still due a Goliath King IIRC, right? Also an Escher Queen at the very least.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/01 16:32:16


Post by: Coenus Scaldingus


 BrookM wrote:
We're still due a Goliath King IIRC, right? Also an Escher Queen at the very least.

Aye. Previewed almost two years ago now! (3rd of February 2018)

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/02/03/news-horus-heresy-necromunda-weekendergw-homepage-post-1/

Spoiler:





Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/01 18:15:04


Post by: jeff white


Primaris sized goliaths now... I guess that GeeDubya marketing figures that scale creep equals market expansion.

Looking forward to king and queen but... not excited by the new adult prospects looking a bit too neat and nifty for Necromunda. As if there should be sponsors asvertising on the sides of their weaponry and armor looks too fit and polished.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/01 18:48:57


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Ah well? Tell GW. Their customer service will get a replacement out.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/01 19:15:07


Post by: Barksdale


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Only got on sprue, should’ve been two.

Ah well.


Then I'm missing the second sprue as well. In all three boxes. You're right though it clearly shows two conduit sprues on the pic and lists them in the description.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/01 19:22:21


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Just got a few Zone Mortalis sprues for a project, damn they are good.

I liked the old Cities O Death stuff but this is really, really good.

I will need will power not to go down HBMC's road of madness.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/01 19:32:51


Post by: Casbyness


Having bought all the expansion books it feels like there are dozens of unreleased models at this point. Everything from the Juves to the special characters and pets showcased in concept art. I check FW once in a while expecting to see some new releases, but nothing substantial so far.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/01 21:18:23


Post by: jeff white


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Just got a few Zone Mortalis sprues for a project, damn they are good.

I liked the old Cities O Death stuff but this is really, really good.

I will need will power not to go down HBMC's road of madness.

I was checking out the store stuff with the manager and yes, I was sad to see that 145euro bundle go so quickly... the smaller kits are less impressive however the models themselves are the stuff of dreams 30 years ago. So nice.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/01 21:45:10


Post by: JWBS


Buying the Necro terrain kits separately isn't horrible value. It looks like a markup of maybe 10% to me, over the large box (but I haven't tried to do the calculations).


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/01 22:05:53


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Got most of my set clipped and cleaned, ready for painting.

It’s really fun to work with, and the building blocks are really straight forward. Next step, wait for the floor panels to return to stock and get a set. The paper map will do for now, but I suspect getting the columns to lock into place will be where this really works best.


[Thumb - 4D90D8A0-079D-4F23-9111-129A25367C7B.jpeg]


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/02 02:06:28


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I will need will power not to go down HBMC's road of madness.
We all build down here...


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/04 23:03:33


Post by: Baxx


New Corpse Grinder Cult cards is just same sheet in new wrapping. One card has same name as CGC card from Dark Uprising box. Why bother buying cards? GW makes the same cards over again, with already existing names or effects.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/04 23:43:12


Post by: Sqorgar


Baxx wrote:
New Corpse Grinder Cult cards is just same sheet in new wrapping. One card has same name as CGC card from Dark Uprising box. Why bother buying cards? GW makes the same cards over again, with already existing names or effects.
Are you saying this is the same set of cards from Dark Uprising, or a new set of cards that repeats some of the DU cards?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/04 23:51:26


Post by: Baxx


New cards, but at least one generic card has duplicate name with a CGC specific card from Uprising box. We have seen previous releases have exact same effects previously. I don't think the new cards have exact same effect, but probably similar 'fluff' or similar but more or less powerful than existing cards. Sorry for the confusion. It is called Blood Surge and grants a stimm-slug without the negative effect. I'm sure we have seen different variants of this before, more or less powerful. Weird they use same name for 2 cards released within 2 months related to the same gang.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 20202020/02/05 02:14:54


Post by: Altruizine


Well, one reason is so a player can generate the same effect twice.

I know I'll happily use Adrenaline Surge and Violent Minded in the same game, even though they basically do the same thing.

I can see that card being pretty useful for CGC, since an entire game can be decided on the distance they roll for a single charge.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/05 04:01:39


Post by: Chopstick


Different card, but same name. This is dumb. The Blood Surge from CGC pack allow a fighter to got out of pinned state and make a move when they're hit by a range attack.

This look like a result from someone half asleep while writing these. (probably from crunch)


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/05 06:07:04


Post by: Sqorgar


I'm not defending GW or anything, but with all the cards in the game being difficult or impossible to acquire, and Baxx being the only person in the world who has them all, maybe it isn't a terrible idea for cards to be repeated occasionally...


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/05 06:40:14


Post by: MajorWesJanson


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I will need will power not to go down HBMC's road of madness.
We all build down here...


Get enough sets and you can start building up.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/05 06:55:23


Post by: JawRippa


Not a fan of Champions 2.0 and Juves 2.0. Prospects will probably have freebies just like CGC juves have mass infiltrate. So they'll make normal Juves die out (not that already existing rules support Juves that well to begin with). Also I have a bad feeling that stimmers will have very little customisation rulewise and just have 2-3 preset loadouts.

Rant aside, prospect models are amazing.

 Sqorgar wrote:
I'm not defending GW or anything, but with all the cards in the game being difficult or impossible to acquire, and Baxx being the only person in the world who has them all, maybe it isn't a terrible idea for cards to be repeated occasionally...

What cards should have been instead are free released pdfs for players to print.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/05 08:25:51


Post by: Baxx


 Sqorgar wrote:
I'm not defending GW or anything, but with all the cards in the game being difficult or impossible to acquire, and Baxx being the only person in the world who has them all, maybe it isn't a terrible idea for cards to be repeated occasionally...

They should re-sell original card packs, not pretend they have the creativity to make something brand new. This game has a ridiculous amount of cards already, adding more does not make the game better in any way. Btw I'm thinking about selling all my original cards as I never use them. Way easier handle in magic card size (multiple printable complete card collection designs available).

I had a chance to read through all the new cards now, and suffice to say, this is another low-quality release. At least this time a lot of the close combat tech can be enjoyed by all gangs, since most of the cards are usable by any gang. Cheap comfort considering the balance between ranged and close combat should be settled in the core rules, not tactics cards.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/09 18:23:26


Post by: zamerion


This phrase makes me happy and terrifies me at the same time:

House of Chains even contains new fighter types – two of which are available in a brand-spanking-new plastic kit!

Does it mean that there are new types of units, and only 2 in plastic, the rest of resin?
if at least they come out at the same time as the book ..


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/09 18:35:31


Post by: Shadox


zamerion wrote:
This phrase makes me happy and terrifies me at the same time:

House of Chains even contains new fighter types – two of which are available in a brand-spanking-new plastic kit!

Does it mean that there are new types of units, and only 2 in plastic, the rest of resin?
if at least they come out at the same time as the book ..


This probably refers to the Ogryn gang. You are probably supposed to use the IG kit for them.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/09 18:26:40


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


zamerion wrote:
This phrase makes me happy and terrifies me at the same time:

House of Chains even contains new fighter types – two of which are available in a brand-spanking-new plastic kit!

Does it mean that there are new types of units, and only 2 in plastic, the rest of resin?
if at least they come out at the same time as the book ..


The important thing to take away from that statement is that they’re new, not replacement. Peeps were understandably concerned the Forgeborn and Stimmers were better defined replacement for Brutes and Juves.

Going purely on the wording from the article? Seems that’s not the case.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/09 20:30:11


Post by: H.B.M.C.


I wonder how different the cards are...


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/09 20:58:03


Post by: Kanluwen


From the GW Facebook, to someone grousing about "bUt mAh jUviEs!!1!":
they call themselves prospects, but they full-fill a similar role, albeit typically with heavier armament than the juves of yesteryear.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/09 21:45:24


Post by: Sqorgar


To save money (and lots of it), I decided to limit myself to just Warcry and Necromunda... Which I thought was a safe bet because Necromunda, at least, is on a quarterly release schedule. My orders for the last release window haven't even arrived yet, and they've already announced another couple hundred dollars of stuff...


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/09 21:46:07


Post by: JWBS


Juves of yesyeryear very much implies that Juves are a thing of the past.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/09 22:20:15


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Kanluwen wrote:
From the GW Facebook, to someone grousing about "bUt mAh jUviEs!!1!":
they call themselves prospects, but they full-fill a similar role, albeit typically with heavier armament than the juves of yesteryear.
So what about my Juves? This basically confirms that they're doing away with them, which contradicts what they said on FB the last time this came up.



Starting to think that that was clearly false.

And Kan, I really do love your attitude. Endlessly complaints they messed up your precious Skitarii by combining them with Ad-Mech, but when someone says they want regular Juves and Juve mins your basically "Ok boomer!". You never cease to amaze me, even after all these years.

JWBS wrote:
Juves of yesyeryear very much implies that Juves are a thing of the past.
That's what worries me.

But don't worry guys! Necromunda will be out of Early Access eventually! *nervous laughter*






Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 02:06:09


Post by: Chairman Aeon


 H.B.M.C. wrote:

But don't worry guys! Necromunda will be out of Early Access eventually! *nervous laughter*


Better hope not because then GW is done with it.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 02:47:11


Post by: Altruizine


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
From the GW Facebook, to someone grousing about "bUt mAh jUviEs!!1!":
they call themselves prospects, but they full-fill a similar role, albeit typically with heavier armament than the juves of yesteryear.
So what about my Juves? This basically confirms that they're doing away with them, which contradicts what they said on FB the last time this came up.

Starting to think that that was clearly false.

And Kan, I really do love your attitude. Endlessly complaints they messed up your precious Skitarii by combining them with Ad-Mech, but when someone says they want regular Juves and Juve mins your basically "Ok boomer!". You never cease to amaze me, even after all these years.

JWBS wrote:
Juves of yesyeryear very much implies that Juves are a thing of the past.
That's what worries me.

But don't worry guys! Necromunda will be out of Early Access eventually! *nervous laughter*

What do you mean by "regular Juves"? What specific qualities define a regular Juve, to you? For each quality you list, please explain how you consider it important.

These new forgeling babies might work almost exactly like Juves currently do, in all but name.

If, ultimately, they turn out to be:

weaker-than-ganger statline + reduced hiring cost + list of available equipment +(if we're lucky) house-specific special rule

What would your objection be? In what way would you feel that the design has denied you something meaningful compared to the current Juve paradigm?

A lot of the Necromunda-related complaining from the past few years has been deeply informed by a wimpy, entitled resistance to any sort of evolution of the old design/background, and it seems primarily motivated by thoughtless and un-self-critical nostalgia. Nostalgia is not adequate justification for stagnation. Among the greatest flaws in Oldcromunda was the comparative uniformity of most of the gangs, and one of the best instincts of the Newcromunda design has been an unflagging effort to make each gang different from the next. Across the board Juves are still pretty underwhelming, however. Here and there you see something like the Escher Juve, which has the bare minimum key characteristics to actually give them a role, but for the most part Juves are not worth serious consideration in this system, outside of roleplay-centric decisions.

A lot of that comes down to the dumb new experience system, but since they don't seem keen on fixing that I heartily welcome a second go at Juve statlines (perhaps buttressed by special rules) to make them relevant in the game.

If your core objection revolves around the loss of a piece of terminology -- "Juve" -- then that's crazy. I'd also suggest that putting so much weight on a word is a shallow interpretation of the background. "Juve" isn't a rigid battlefield designation, it's real-world-informed in-universe slang. All of the new youthful fighter types in each gang will still be Juves even if there's no statline anywhere that has "Juve" typed above it.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 02:51:38


Post by: Crimson


As long as they can be equipped with traditional juve gear them replacing the juves is obviously fine. It is only a problem if all they can take is these new weird weapons.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 03:19:28


Post by: ekwatts


 Crimson wrote:
As long as they can be equipped with traditional juve gear them replacing the juves is obviously fine. It is only a problem if all they can take is these new weird weapons.


But Juves were always restricted to a more limited set of weapons, weren't they? That being the case, why does it make TOO much difference if those weapons are individualised even further?

It looks, to me, as though GW is simply evolving the idea of what a "Juve" is.

That's fine by me.

I cut my teeth in gaming on old Necromunda, Mordheim and Blood Bowl. I'm a sci fi guy at heart but Mordheim was the absolute king of the game systems, for me, encompassing everything I ever wanted from a skirmish game with an experience system. Necromunda and Mordheim were similar-ish games, with one generally regarded as the sci-fi/fantasy counterpart of the other. And that's a fair comparison. But one thing Mordheim did far better than old Necromunda was have much better variety within your small group of fighters, with differing troop types making up their own "mini" warbands inside your main outfit. And that was sorely missing from Necromunda.

If we're starting to see that sort of diversification within the existing Necromunda gangs then I'm all for it. If that means the generic "Juve" is replaced by a number of different archetypes, I really don't see how we're "losing" anything at all.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 0027/02/10 02:40:11


Post by: Crimson


Well, if 'juves' can no longer have their old gear choices, then that's what we would be losing. Adding new options is great, but removing the existing ones would be kinda dick move.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 04:00:38


Post by: Altruizine


 Crimson wrote:
Well, if 'juves' can no longer have their old gear choices, then that's what we would be losing. Adding new options is great, but removing the existing ones would be kinda dick move.

It always sucks when new rules invalidate models.

But at the same time, there haven't been any Juve models released for this game, so for the most part there isn't really anything to invalidate. In a few cases people may have done very effort-heavy conversions that could be at risk, and that's sad. Overall, a lot of Juve conversions are likely based on the ganger kits, and can probably be repurposed.

Anyone out there expecting their 20 year old metal Juves to stay legal is a complete psychopath.

All that aside, my personal preference is for a very open gear-scape, so I hope the new yoofs don't have many restrictions. It seems unlikely that they will (although I wouldn't be surprised if there was confusion akin to the "Can Subjugators use trading post weapons?" issue if the Juves 2.0 have their own equipment lists).


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 04:21:11


Post by: JWBS


 Altruizine wrote:
"Juve" isn't a rigid battlefield designation, it's real-world-informed in-universe slang.

That, Captain Obvious, is what makes it important. I don't take a slice of lime with my Tequila for the vitamin C.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 04:47:00


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Nice rant, but I think I can answer this a little more succinctly than your your wonderfully off-base and accusatory screed:

 Altruizine wrote:
What do you mean by "regular Juves"?
These ones:



Duh.

 Altruizine wrote:
What would your objection be?
That still in print rules are being invalidated and replaced.

Again, duh.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 06:19:59


Post by: jeff white


The new prospect models are too polished. Look wealthy. Necro gang members start out desperate. That is why they become gangers. New prospect models look like they just walked out of Walmart with a new chainsaw purchased with their mom's credit card. This is not game evolution. This is marketing driving game design. Again. Juves made Necro realistic in that they represented that desperation of the underhive to go into conflict unarmed or minimally armed ... risk. Prospects... not so much. Opposite actually. Now it is just paintball for rich kids on a kitchen table. My opinion this is a net loss for the hobby. Again.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 11:11:25


Post by: Baxx


 Chairman Aeon wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:

But don't worry guys! Necromunda will be out of Early Access eventually! *nervous laughter*


Better hope not because then GW is done with it.

GW should abandon this game instead of reinventing the wheels. The community needs peace to fix this game proper.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

These new forgeling babies might work almost exactly like Juves currently do, in all but name.
they are different! No current juve can carry those weapons. Why put a 120 credit weapon on a 25 credit fighter? Absurd.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 jeff white wrote:
The new prospect models are too polished. Look wealthy. Necro gang members start out desperate. That is why they become gangers. New prospect models look like they just walked out of Walmart with a new chainsaw purchased with their mom's credit card. This is not game evolution. This is marketing driving game design. Again. Juves made Necro realistic in that they represented that desperation of the underhive to go into conflict unarmed or minimally armed ... risk. Prospects... not so much. Opposite actually. Now it is just paintball for rich kids on a kitchen table. My opinion this is a net loss for the hobby. Again.
This! These new releases don't. Improve the game, they improve economy.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 12:46:41


Post by: Theophony


 jeff white wrote:
The new prospect models are too polished. Look wealthy. Necro gang members start out desperate. That is why they become gangers. New prospect models look like they just walked out of Walmart with a new chainsaw purchased with their mom's credit card. This is not game evolution. This is marketing driving game design. Again. Juves made Necro realistic in that they represented that desperation of the underhive to go into conflict unarmed or minimally armed ... risk. Prospects... not so much. Opposite actually. Now it is just paintball for rich kids on a kitchen table. My opinion this is a net loss for the hobby. Again.

I see prospects not as juves, but as prospects. Juves that the gang leaders have picked out as being more capable, cunning, or in the case of Goliaths having the proper bone structure to develop massive muscle load. It’s like high school baseball players, you may have a few on a team that will play college level baseball and maybe a couple that will play minor league ball, but some coaches will go a lifetime without ever having a true prospect who will go straight to the major league and make a name for themselves. To me those are the prospects. When teams have them they make sure they have all the training time, field time, tutors, equipment and anything else they need. In this case they are given better equipment to start with in hopes that one day they will become the next great leader/specialist/ murder master.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 12:51:35


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


But all the 'Books of' and 'House of' are expansions? Therefore optional?

Peeps wanting to play just the main rules can totally do that if they want to. Indeed, I'd wager any campaign trying to incorporate everything at once is going to be cumbersome to say the least.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 0202/02/10 12:52:44


Post by: Clockpunk


I'm all for the change - the limited armament options for juves made them rather boring - whereas if each gang's prospects is more closely tied to their core theme - and bear those weapons which are a huge risk so that none might even survive - it makes their inclusion much more cinematic. Which is the experience I want from the game.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 13:04:59


Post by: Oguhmek


These prospects seem to be to juves like champions are to regular gangers. ”Juve champions” in a sense.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 13:24:04


Post by: Luke82


Brilliant, let’s hope they go even further. I want Juve Juves, even weaker Juves armed only with sticks.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 13:53:26


Post by: Altruizine


 H.B.M.C. wrote:


 Altruizine wrote:
What would your objection be?
That still in print rules are being invalidated and replaced.

Again, duh.

Every codex/armybook/battletome/whatever else they've started calling them ever released has invalidated and replaced rules.

 jeff white wrote:
The new prospect models are too polished. Look wealthy. Necro gang members start out desperate. That is why they become gangers. New prospect models look like they just walked out of Walmart with a new chainsaw purchased with their mom's credit card. This is not game evolution. This is marketing driving game design. Again. Juves made Necro realistic in that they represented that desperation of the underhive to go into conflict unarmed or minimally armed ... risk. Prospects... not so much. Opposite actually. Now it is just paintball for rich kids on a kitchen table. My opinion this is a net loss for the hobby. Again.

This ship sailed two years ago. Gangs are not desperate outlaws anymore, they're paramilitaries who can wear combinations of armour that would make a Terminator jealous, and locate a dude who will sell them a melta pistol the likes of which was once only available to the Chapter Master of the Blood Angels.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 13:55:17


Post by: ekwatts


Exactly.

I love Necromunda but I don't feel like I'm losing anything if this expansion adds more ganger archetypes that can be accessed outside of Hired Guns and hangers on. I'll happily throw my Juves under the bus.

Especially since... y'know... that's the point of them...

I don't really get people getting upset at the idea that GW are trying to push new models... like... yeah...?

So I had a metal Goliath gang from the 1990s that slowly wore out over the years of stagnation. About a decade ago, some friends decided to do some "vintage" GW games. I cannibalised my old Goliaths, what I had left, to construct a new gang; I stripped the metal models I still had left and built newer models out of marine scouts, chaos marauders, and whatever else I had lying around. In the end, I replaced all of my metal Goliaths apart from the two Juves I had while also supplementing them with a female Juve I converted from a Foundry model... Ahead of the curve!

Spoiler:




Anyway, my point is that when the new Necromunda miniatures came out, I was excited but also wondered whether they would "fit" with my existing gang or not. As it turned out, the new Goliaths obviously were fantastic, but since I already had a Goliath gang I didn't plump for them. I had all the Goliaths, Champions and Juves I needed.

Now? I'm changing my mind. I might.... might end up buying into the new Goliaths. My gang is still legal. It still works (I think?) but the new miniatures are good enough that I'm very interested.

What am I losing? If I end up replacing my converted gang completely with the new miniatures, with variations my current gang doesn't cover, how exactly am I losing out? My figures still exist, I still spent a great deal of time and effort creating them (particularly the guns... these were made WAY before autoguns became a "thing" again, the only source for them was still the old metal Necromunda sprues or the Dark Vengeance Cultists, so I had to make my own).

So even though I have a full gang of miniatures I love, even I still don't feel like GW are deliberately ganking me by... giving me... more stuff.......


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 14:32:48


Post by: Yodhrin


 ekwatts wrote:

I don't really get people getting upset at the idea that GW are trying to push new models... like... yeah...?


I don't really get how people who feel the need to rubbish other people's views on new releases always have to be so nakedly disingenuous.

It's been pointed out, multiple times, that nobody cares if GW push new models. What people have a problem with is GW taking away existing options. If Prospects are an addition to the options available, fine, cool, more options is nice and if you dislike them you can just not use them, but they should not replace Juves because the two are not equivalent. They're not equivalent in aesthetic, they'e not equivalent in narrative tone, and they're not equivalent in terms of their role during a game(unless people are going to argue that those bigass fancy weapons are going to cost the same as a couple of stubguns or a knife & autopistol, in which case we're just back to "GW can't design games" because that would be sheer farce).


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 14:51:53


Post by: Baxx


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But all the 'Books of' and 'House of' are expansions? Therefore optional?

Peeps wanting to play just the main rules can totally do that if they want to. Indeed, I'd wager any campaign trying to incorporate everything at once is going to be cumbersome to say the least.

Yes and no. Some new player got all the shiny new toys and joins a group, and they say no, we don't allow those? That sucks! We play with different people and discuss both locally and globally. I'd prefer if we discussed the same game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Clockpunk wrote:
I'm all for the change - the limited armament options for juves made them rather boring - whereas if each gang's prospects is more closely tied to their core theme - and bear those weapons which are a huge risk so that none might even survive - it makes their inclusion much more cinematic. Which is the experience I want from the game.

This was how juves originally were, except they rarely had expensive weapons. They had cheap and simple weapons. And they rarely survived. Those who did survive more often than not became legends. The way you describe it sounds like GW is reinventing the wheel. Nobody asked for that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Oguhmek wrote:
These prospects seem to be to juves like champions are to regular gangers. ”Juve champions” in a sense.

Yes! I wrote a lengthy complaint about it over at yaktribe, comparing it to 40k. Used this to summarize:

https://yaktribe.games/community/threads/the-sump-an-n17-venting-thread.6767/page-116#post-220367


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ekwatts wrote:

I don't really get people getting upset at the idea that GW are trying to push new models... like... yeah...?

Nobody is upset about new models. I got all the new gangs, the forgeworld weapon packs, the pets, brutes.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 15:30:06


Post by: Altruizine


 Yodhrin wrote:
 ekwatts wrote:

I don't really get people getting upset at the idea that GW are trying to push new models... like... yeah...?


I don't really get how people who feel the need to rubbish other people's views on new releases always have to be so nakedly disingenuous.

It's been pointed out, multiple times, that nobody cares if GW push new models. What people have a problem with is GW taking away existing options. If Prospects are an addition to the options available, fine, cool, more options is nice and if you dislike them you can just not use them, but they should not replace Juves because the two are not equivalent. They're not equivalent in aesthetic, they'e not equivalent in narrative tone, and they're not equivalent in terms of their role during a game(unless people are going to argue that those bigass fancy weapons are going to cost the same as a couple of stubguns or a knife & autopistol, in which case we're just back to "GW can't design games" because that would be sheer farce).

At the moment Juves do not have an aesthetic or role in the game.

They have an aesthetic and role in a game from 20 years ago, and a token presence in a living game.



Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 15:32:34


Post by: Jack Flask


 Yodhrin wrote:
 ekwatts wrote:

I don't really get people getting upset at the idea that GW are trying to push new models... like... yeah...?


I don't really get how people who feel the need to rubbish other people's views on new releases always have to be so nakedly disingenuous.

It's been pointed out, multiple times, that nobody cares if GW push new models. What people have a problem with is GW taking away existing options. If Prospects are an addition to the options available, fine, cool, more options is nice and if you dislike them you can just not use them, but they should not replace Juves because the two are not equivalent. They're not equivalent in aesthetic, they'e not equivalent in narrative tone, and they're not equivalent in terms of their role during a game(unless people are going to argue that those bigass fancy weapons are going to cost the same as a couple of stubguns or a knife & autopistol, in which case we're just back to "GW can't design games" because that would be sheer farce).


Because it's infuriating to have to wade through the same tired comments from the same outspoken handful of people every time GW makes even the slightest change to something whether it's rules, lore, or models.

You're honestly throwing a fit about potentially losing the ability to have your crap redshirts start with a pistol/knife rather than some other obligatory starting weapon? And this is bad because it's "taking away existing options" but would be okay if "[they] are in addition to the options available"?

YOU of all people who incessantly throws gakstorms about Roboute Guilliman returning, Primaris releases, and post-Gathering Storm lore? None of which invalidated anything about the pre-Gathering Storm lore/setting nor prompted the invalidation of any models/rules?
(At best you can argue the Primaris named characters, however that happened incredibly recently [well after you started complaining] and also all aforementioned characters still have non-primaris rules in Legends)

But I guess you could "just not them" huh?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 17:19:04


Post by: aka_mythos


Jack Flask wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
 ekwatts wrote:

I don't really get people getting upset at the idea that GW are trying to push new models... like... yeah...?


I don't really get how people who feel the need to rubbish other people's views on new releases always have to be so nakedly disingenuous.

It's been pointed out, multiple times, that nobody cares if GW push new models. What people have a problem with is GW taking away existing options. If Prospects are an addition to the options available, fine, cool, more options is nice and if you dislike them you can just not use them, but they should not replace Juves because the two are not equivalent. They're not equivalent in aesthetic, they'e not equivalent in narrative tone, and they're not equivalent in terms of their role during a game(unless people are going to argue that those bigass fancy weapons are going to cost the same as a couple of stubguns or a knife & autopistol, in which case we're just back to "GW can't design games" because that would be sheer farce).


Because it's infuriating to have to wade through the same tired comments from the same outspoken handful of people every time GW makes even the slightest change to something whether it's rules, lore, or models.

You're honestly throwing a fit about potentially losing the ability to have your crap redshirts start with a pistol/knife rather than some other obligatory starting weapon? And this is bad because it's "taking away existing options" but would be okay if "[they] are in addition to the options available"?

YOU of all people who incessantly throws gakstorms about Roboute Guilliman returning, Primaris releases, and post-Gathering Storm lore? None of which invalidated anything about the pre-Gathering Storm lore/setting nor prompted the invalidation of any models/rules?
(At best you can argue the Primaris named characters, however that happened incredibly recently [well after you started complaining] and also all aforementioned characters still have non-primaris rules in Legends)

But I guess you could "just not them" huh?
Maybe I'm missing something, or maybe I've been playing the game all wrong, or I'm confused from past editions... I don't think of juves as "red shirts".... In many gangs juves are the only way to make up for any of the short comings of your faction and are also critical to longevity of campaign play. Are there factions that use them as fodder, sure, but its kinda critical for balancing those faction that become untenable in a campaign without something like fodder. Forcing you to take a model in place of juves, that has to come with a special or heavy weapons is either imbalanced or too expensive to be practical. If in a campaign players have a gang member die, they often times don't have the credits to get more than a juve with the cheapest weapons. Its a change that makes me think the game designer isn't playing thier own game in the way they intend, but are just playing a lot of one offs.

While I don't think all gangs use their juves as fodder... as a tactic, what is wrong with that?-I mean do we really want a skirmish game to become more tactically limited?

My issue with this is that its a significant pivot from what they said their goals for this edition were. They said they intended to start in the depths of the underhive, releasing book after book working their way up an out of the hive, giving us new settings, campaigns, and factions as they go. We could make a pretty long list of things that have been teased that don't have models, don't have rules, or imply new elements of game play that aren't represented. Thats before we consider the variety of locations they've talked about and also aren't represented in any meaningful way.

Even Dark Uprising was something of a deviation from their stated goals but it was at least somewhere on the spectrum and expanded on previously introduced elements and gave us better terrain, and was something like how people envisioned significant additions to be introduced. I have issue with these new models beause it represents a fork in the road... either we live with real implications of game balance while GW gets back on track, or we spend the next two years waiting for GW to work through each existing gang to give them the equivalent book and sprue release. I love the last three books we got for Necromunda and I was looking forward to more... I can't say I care much for expanded Goliaths and the real implication of seeing each gang addressed in an individual book with an individual sprue for the next 6 or 7 quarters.... I would rather GW continue with their originally stated plan, in the least they could better use this time to give us the gangs from previous editions that still haven't been updated... or the models for some of the units that already have rules.

Not that I'd have been happy with a new edition, but when they're readdressing each faction like they are it makes me think dark uprising should have been the start of a new edition.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 18:23:30


Post by: Altruizine


 aka_mythos wrote:


But I guess you could "just not them" huh?
Maybe I'm missing something, or maybe I've been playing the game all wrong, or I'm confused from past editions... I don't think of juves as "red shirts".... In many gangs juves are the only way to make up for any of the short comings of your faction and are also critical to longevity of campaign play. Are there factions that use them as fodder, sure, but its kinda critical for balancing those faction that become untenable in a campaign without something like fodder. Forcing you to take a model in place of juves, that has to come with a special or heavy weapons is either imbalanced or too expensive to be practical. If in a campaign players have a gang member die, they often times don't have the credits to get more than a juve with the cheapest weapons. Its a change that makes me think the game designer isn't playing thier own game in the way they intend, but are just playing a lot of one offs.

You definitely might be playing the game wrong (depending on your objectives, of course).

As it stands, a Juve isn't worth taking over a Ganger. The amount of time and experience it takes to get a Juve up to the statline a Ganger starts out with is too demanding. Throughout that period the Juve will be occupying a Crew spot in all scenarios that use random or limited Crew Size, while doing less effective work in-game than a Ganger would be doing. The Juve will also be influencing the fighter type ratio in your gang and making it more difficult to hire additional Champions.

There are very few scenarios where you would want to spend a limited treasury on a Juve, even if it's all you can afford. If you do that you'll be paying a hidden price for dozens of games as the Juve gets up to snuff. The opportunity cost of hiring the Juve instead of waiting a game and hiring a Ganger is too high. The only time you'd want to do this is if, for some reason, it is EXTREMELY important for you to win your next game, and you're willing to mortgage your future for the immediate advantage of an extra model on the board, pending scenario selection.

I don't know why people keep alluding to these guys "having to take" heavy weapons. Do Van Saar gangers "have to take" close combat loadouts with shock staves and shields? Do Enforcers "have to" send their gang out with nothing but a stubgun on 3/4 of the team? The weapons provided in a kit haven't had any relation to what a fighter may or may not equip to this point in the game.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 18:44:46


Post by: Robert Facepalmer


Luke82 wrote:
Brilliant, let’s hope they go even further. I want Juve Juves, even weaker Juves armed only with sticks.

DUMPSTER BABY HAMMER FIGHT.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 19:14:25


Post by: Crimson


Baxx wrote:

Yes! I wrote a lengthy complaint about it over at yaktribe, comparing it to 40k. Used this to summarize:

This size comparison is not even remotely accurate...


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 19:42:55


Post by: JWBS


I'm not really sure what the point of it is tbh. Stuff has gotten bigger, sure (and it's something that I like but that's irrelevant). It seems that the main complaint is "They've added new stuff to 40K" whereas, imo, the real complaint should be "They've added some real fugly stuff to 40K". Meh, all subjective I suppose. That would be my gripe about this pic though.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 20:17:49


Post by: jeff white


 Theophony wrote:
 jeff white wrote:
The new prospect models are too polished. Look wealthy. Necro gang members start out desperate. That is why they become gangers. New prospect models look like they just walked out of Walmart with a new chainsaw purchased with their mom's credit card. This is not game evolution. This is marketing driving game design. Again. Juves made Necro realistic in that they represented that desperation of the underhive to go into conflict unarmed or minimally armed ... risk. Prospects... not so much. Opposite actually. Now it is just paintball for rich kids on a kitchen table. My opinion this is a net loss for the hobby. Again.

I see prospects not as juves, but as prospects. Juves that the gang leaders have picked out as being more capable, cunning, or in the case of Goliaths having the proper bone structure to develop massive muscle load. It’s like high school baseball players, you may have a few on a team that will play college level baseball and maybe a couple that will play minor league ball, but some coaches will go a lifetime without ever having a true prospect who will go straight to the major league and make a name for themselves. To me those are the prospects. When teams have them they make sure they have all the training time, field time, tutors, equipment and anything else they need. In this case they are given better equipment to start with in hopes that one day they will become the next great leader/specialist/ murder master.


"Teams"?

None of this addresses the aesthetics.

Sure one might argue that it smooths the transition into full ganger status but the look us just that... too sporty. Too team-y.

Want bigger juves for added realism. Sure.
College ball...
More realism in character development? Ok...

But the models zuck.

Can one play Necro without zucky prospect models?
If conversions are still a thing i guess...

But how is it that this isn't seen as marketeers just looking for excuses to bloat the model line when what is necessary is to improve existing gameplay using existing models until I suppose everything runs great and bloat is warranted?


Now what?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Altruizine wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:


 Altruizine wrote:
What would your objection be?
That still in print rules are being invalidated and replaced.

Again, duh.

Every codex/armybook/battletome/whatever else they've started calling them ever released has invalidated and replaced rules.

 jeff white wrote:
The new prospect models are too polished. Look wealthy. Necro gang members start out desperate. That is why they become gangers. New prospect models look like they just walked out of Walmart with a new chainsaw purchased with their mom's credit card. This is not game evolution. This is marketing driving game design. Again. Juves made Necro realistic in that they represented that desperation of the underhive to go into conflict unarmed or minimally armed ... risk. Prospects... not so much. Opposite actually. Now it is just paintball for rich kids on a kitchen table. My opinion this is a net loss for the hobby. Again.

This ship sailed two years ago. Gangs are not desperate outlaws anymore, they're paramilitaries who can wear combinations of armour that would make a Terminator jealous, and locate a dude who will sell them a melta pistol the likes of which was once only available to the Chapter Master of the Blood Angels.


As I wrote above - "again".

Moreover the fallacious appeal to precedent is ... fallacious.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 20:27:13


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Hey, here’s wild suggestion. Truly wild. Like 100% left field....

Maybe....wait to read the actual background on them first?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 21:07:28


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Altruizine wrote:
At the moment Juves do not have an aesthetic or role in the game.
Says who? You?

 Altruizine wrote:
... a token presence in a living game.
That's utter tripe. They have just as much of a presence as anything else in the game.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 21:11:39


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


It’s been a rare campaign of Oldramunda where my Juves didn’t end up the absolute powerhouses of my Gang. They gain useful skills super quick.

Best example? Game against the Spyrer Matriarch and Patriarch. Opponent fielded them quite early on in the campaign. Still my Cawdor Juves with Disarm mobbed them in HTH, broke all their toys, and reduced them to using harsh language for the next turn they survived.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 21:50:12


Post by: Baxx


 Crimson wrote:

This size comparison is not even remotely accurate...

It was never meant to accurately compare size.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
JWBS wrote:
I'm not really sure what the point of it is tbh. Stuff has gotten bigger, sure (and it's something that I like but that's irrelevant). It seems that the main complaint is "They've added new stuff to 40K" whereas, imo, the real complaint should be "They've added some real fugly stuff to 40K". Meh, all subjective I suppose. That would be my gripe about this pic though.

It's not exactly my point. I didn't mind brutes even though they are the biggest we got for Necromunda ever. What I dislike is adding more levels. We already have Champion and Juve. Adding super champion or super juve doesn't improve anything, it moves the goal post. The new stuff can bring a wow factor, but the same is lost for the old.

Take this example: If you charge with a Goliath Leader or Champion, that's the most powerful melee fighter in it's right element. If you add a new super fighter that's even better than that, in sum, you haven't added anything.
 jeff white wrote:

But how is it that this isn't seen as marketeers just looking for excuses to bloat the model line when what is necessary is to improve existing gameplay using existing models until I suppose everything runs great and bloat is warranted?

Yes! We don't need super juve (nobody asked for it!), we need core rules that allow them to shine as much as they used to (the few who survived).


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 22:13:10


Post by: JWBS


Yeah I see your point about levels in levels. Like that GK DreadKnight thing. Or the SM oneupism (marines are best. No black ones are. Silver ones are better. Except compared with these gold ones. Actually there's now some new basic marines that makes the silver and black and gold marines look like real chumps). Personally, they could probably still get me on board if half of it weren't so aesthetically yuck (I do love some of it but it's real hit and miss for me)


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 23:05:10


Post by: insaniak


JWBS wrote:
I'm not really sure what the point of it is tbh. Stuff has gotten bigger, sure (and it's something that I like but that's irrelevant). It seems that the main complaint is "They've added new stuff to 40K" whereas, imo, the real complaint should be "They've added some real fugly stuff to 40K". Meh, all subjective I suppose. That would be my gripe about this pic though.

Adding new stuff is fine, so long as it's cool.

Removing old stuff is more of a problem.



 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s been a rare campaign of Oldramunda where my Juves didn’t end up the absolute powerhouses of my Gang. They gain useful skills super quick.

Best example? Game against the Spyrer Matriarch and Patriarch. Opponent fielded them quite early on in the campaign. Still my Cawdor Juves with Disarm mobbed them in HTH, broke all their toys, and reduced them to using harsh language for the next turn they survived.

Yeah, we actually started giving starter gangers, leaders and heavies advances based on their rolled XP, because otherwise they just wound up being left behind by the juves, who get so many more advances in the earlier XP ranks. This also had the effect of making those first fights with new gangs significantly less tedious...


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 23:22:06


Post by: ekwatts


Yeah wait.

We literally don't know what on earth these models are going to have as options. So far we've seen six figures in total, 3 bodies repeated, which suggests one sprue repeated; I'm going to assume that the sprues EITHER have more bodies than we're seeing so far OR they're stuffed with an enormous amount of stuff, or something halfway between; this is no less valid an assumption than anything else made in this thread so far.

Equally, why does the widening of the possible ganger types water this game down at all? As I've said, Mordheim did this extremely well, and I loved having different types of fighters at my disposal. There's no suggestion, yet, that there's some kind of inherent progression between any of the character classes; perhaps they're literally just specialists. That being the case, if you like how your Goliaths currently work, you might never be compelled to take one. Bonus for those of you who think "the aesthetic" is all wrong (HUGELY SUBJECTIVE).

I guess as far as all the rest of the noise goes, this is simply another case where you're going to get one side vehemently disagreeing with the other because of what they find interesting in these kinds of games.

I'm the person that loves having more options than will ever be realistically explored. There's six different archetypes for your gang and you literally can't afford to add all of them in until you're 20 missions deep into a campaign? Excellent. There's a super-duper secret weapon you can only find at the trading post by rolling four sixes? Cool. Aspiration is important in a game like this.

And as much as I LOVE old Necromunda, this isn't old Necromunda. If you want a game that plays just like old Necromunda, you have that option. Play old Necromunda. Juves aplenty. GW can never take them away from you in reality.

 Altruizine wrote:
 jeff white wrote:
The new prospect models are too polished. Look wealthy. Necro gang members start out desperate. That is why they become gangers. New prospect models look like they just walked out of Walmart with a new chainsaw purchased with their mom's credit card. This is not game evolution. This is marketing driving game design. Again. Juves made Necro realistic in that they represented that desperation of the underhive to go into conflict unarmed or minimally armed ... risk. Prospects... not so much. Opposite actually. Now it is just paintball for rich kids on a kitchen table. My opinion this is a net loss for the hobby. Again.

This ship sailed two years ago. Gangs are not desperate outlaws anymore, they're paramilitaries who can wear combinations of armour that would make a Terminator jealous, and locate a dude who will sell them a melta pistol the likes of which was once only available to the Chapter Master of the Blood Angels.


Is this even valid? Necromunda isn't representing just a "slice" of 40k as a direct translation. It's representing warring "noble" houses (read: organised crime gangs from any movie you've seen about the triads, mafia, etc) fighting a proxy war with each other in a John Wick-style hyped-up version of "reality" ("reality" in this case being standard 40k), with street punks suddenly able to perform heroic feats of acrobatics, close combat and shooting, and somehow not be immediately killed by a massive powered bolter shell ripping through their body or being smashed up by a hammer three times the size of a standard human. There are pet crocodiles and psychic cats and weird cherubs. But melta pistols are a no-no?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/10 23:29:35


Post by: insaniak


 ekwatts wrote:
...But melta pistols are a no-no?

Well, yes, but only in so far as they're also a no-no for regular Blood Angels. Originally, Dante's melta pistol was unique. Fluff changed, and now they're all over the place.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 00:35:56


Post by: Altruizine


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Altruizine wrote:
At the moment Juves do not have an aesthetic or role in the game.
Says who? You?

 Altruizine wrote:
... a token presence in a living game.
That's utter tripe. They have just as much of a presence as anything else in the game.

All the gangs have been redesigned, to varying degrees.

No Juve models have been produced in accordance with the contemporary aesthetic.

No 2D art of contemporary Juves has been produced (or very little -- I haven't taken the time to go cover-to-cover though all my rulebooks).

They have almost no presence in the contemporary game because outside of elaborate, bespoke conversions every Juve you see will be a Ganger model.

Additionally (as outlined several posts ago) they are not an efficient or effective fighter selection to make within the match/campaign modes offered thus far by the contemporary system.

So, yeah, Juves are barely there right now. You're fixated on attachments that are 20 to 30 years old, hewed from the corpse of the deceased primogenitor of this game.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 01:42:08


Post by: Yodhrin


Jack Flask wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
 ekwatts wrote:

I don't really get people getting upset at the idea that GW are trying to push new models... like... yeah...?


I don't really get how people who feel the need to rubbish other people's views on new releases always have to be so nakedly disingenuous.

It's been pointed out, multiple times, that nobody cares if GW push new models. What people have a problem with is GW taking away existing options. If Prospects are an addition to the options available, fine, cool, more options is nice and if you dislike them you can just not use them, but they should not replace Juves because the two are not equivalent. They're not equivalent in aesthetic, they'e not equivalent in narrative tone, and they're not equivalent in terms of their role during a game(unless people are going to argue that those bigass fancy weapons are going to cost the same as a couple of stubguns or a knife & autopistol, in which case we're just back to "GW can't design games" because that would be sheer farce).


Because it's infuriating to have to wade through the same tired comments from the same outspoken handful of people every time GW makes even the slightest change to something whether it's rules, lore, or models.

You're honestly throwing a fit about potentially losing the ability to have your crap redshirts start with a pistol/knife rather than some other obligatory starting weapon? And this is bad because it's "taking away existing options" but would be okay if "[they] are in addition to the options available"?


"Throwing a fit" - jeebus man, at least try and find a notch below Alex Jones Ranting About Gay Frogwater when you reply to folk you disagree with.

YOU of all people who incessantly throws gakstorms about Roboute Guilliman returning, Primaris releases, and post-Gathering Storm lore? None of which invalidated anything about the pre-Gathering Storm lore/setting nor prompted the invalidation of any models/rules?
(At best you can argue the Primaris named characters, however that happened incredibly recently [well after you started complaining] and also all aforementioned characters still have non-primaris rules in Legends)

But I guess you could "just not them" huh?


Aaaand point proven. Damn this is actually impressive, it takes genuine effort and skill to be this disingenuous. Other than in this bizarroworld of yours where I "incessantly throw gakstorms" about something I don't think I've mentioned in at least a couple of months, what does any of that have to do with objecting to options being narrowed? In fact, how are the two things even in conflict, when one of the primary reasons I don't care for the new material and ruleset is it is, steadily, narrowing options - how much Minimarine material has now been shunted out of the Codex into "Legends" or whatever it's called? And does anyone sane really believe that's a process that isn't going to continue as more Primaris stuff comes out?

Come off it eh.


 Altruizine wrote:

So, yeah, Juves are barely there right now. You're fixated on attachments that are 20 to 30 years old, hewed from the corpse of the deceased primogenitor of this game.


I think the best possible word for this within the context of Dakka's rules is "piffle".

Juves are there right now because they are, self-evidently so. It's easy to tell, because you can open the books and see them, written down, right next to the other options. You can also spot them on tables, and written on people's gang rosters. You might not use them, you might not care about them, but to deny they exist at all because they've not got their own bespoke models is just laughable - does that mean the Spyker doesn't exist? The Orlock Lugger? More than half the named characters in the game so far? Did the option to take certain weapons not exist before FW released the weapon packs for a gang, despite them being in the rules?

Juves are part of the rules, people use them, and they want to keep using them. You'll have to try a bit harder to explain how that is unreasonable, because as of yet you might as well have just typed out "OK BOOMER HAH" a couple of dozen times with a smugface gif.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 01:45:22


Post by: H.B.M.C.


So many people seem to be missing the point.

The inclusion of these new Prospects and the big dudes isn't a problem. If they want to give each gang new unique units to set them apart then that's fine by me.

What concerns us is whether these two new units replace the existing Juve and Berzerker entries (two things that haven't even got a mini release yet).



Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 05:38:34


Post by: ImAGeek


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So many people seem to be missing the point.

The inclusion of these new Prospects and the big dudes isn't a problem. If they want to give each gang new unique units to set them apart then that's fine by me.

What concerns us is whether these two new units replace the existing Juve and Berzerker entries (two things that haven't even got a mini release yet).



People aren’t missing the point. Some people just don’t care as much as you.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 06:25:55


Post by: Coenus Scaldingus


 Altruizine wrote:
They have almost no presence in the contemporary game because outside of elaborate, bespoke conversions every Juve you see will be a Ganger model.

So, just like many gang champions then? Even many of the leaders really.

If the rules aren't great, change the rules, rather than make an additional figure with additional rules. Imagine if every time a 40k model underperforms, they make a new unit type to tack on to the faction; the rules bloat would be thrice as bad as it already is! (I'm assuming the old Juves continue to exist by the way, and can possibly be made from these new sets - certainly a good basis for conversions, perhaps suitable weapons will already be included. But if they are replaced, the reasoning for it seems weak to me. I'm just against adding them because there are plenty of options in the game already, and a new sprue for Juves and Champions with more normal weapons currently lacking (or occasionally supplied by FW) would be preferable over one giving yet more new weapons and things.)


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 07:11:33


Post by: Baxx


 ImAGeek wrote:

People aren’t missing the point. Some people just don’t care as much as you.

Sounds awfully personal?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So many people seem to be missing the point.

The inclusion of these new Prospects and the big dudes isn't a problem. If they want to give each gang new unique units to set them apart then that's fine by me.

What concerns us is whether these two new units replace the existing Juve and Berzerker entries (two things that haven't even got a mini release yet).


I feel opposite. 4 fighter classes is perfect (cheap, mediocre, elite and 1 leader). I don't want cheap, cheap+, mediocre, elite and elite+. That seems like moving the goal post, levels in levels, bloat etc.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 07:43:59


Post by: Albertorius


It just feels like it's getting ever more convolute for little gain, really.

I'd rather they released minis for the stuff already in the books over new stuff that I don't actually much need. If at all.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 08:07:51


Post by: insaniak


 ImAGeek wrote:


People aren’t missing the point. Some people just don’t care as much as you.

You've misunderstood. The people missing the point are those claiming the objection is to including new options, which isn't the complaint at all.





Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 08:47:07


Post by: Baxx


Yes! I never complained about new stuff when it has a purpose and fits the game. For example Brutes and hangers-on are new and serves unique purposes, they fit the game well in my opinion.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 09:08:55


Post by: ImAGeek


 insaniak wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:


People aren’t missing the point. Some people just don’t care as much as you.

You've misunderstood. The people missing the point are those claiming the objection is to including new options, which isn't the complaint at all.





Okay yeah, apologies. On reflection I was overly snippy and I guess some people did miss the actual complaint.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 13:43:56


Post by: Altruizine


This page alone proves that there is no bloc of opposition to this release based on any single coherent reason. We have certain individuals saying they don't want stuff replaced/outdated, and other individuals saying they don't want stuff added if they consider it superfluous to what already exists.

So nobody is missing the point; there's no point to miss. Everybody who is freaking out has their own personal reason for doing so.

Ultimately, it's all standard online commentator panic until we understand a little more about the release and new fighter types. If Juves remain their own entry, or if it's possible to emulate the current Juves entry with these new guys, then every concern listed heretofore becomes invalid (and we can hone in on the grognard nostalgism which is reliably the true motivation behind much of this fear).


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 14:06:06


Post by: Albertorius


Everybody who is freaking out is actually not. It's just that they are easier to dismiss if you say they are.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 14:06:54


Post by: stato


A lot of worry about losing Juves, we've known the 'prospects' were a thing for a year now from when they showed this. Do people think they have changed their mind since?



http://castigatorschaos.blogspot.com/2019/02/the-future-of-necromunda-specialist.html


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 14:12:23


Post by: Albertorius


Was that on any of the released books so far? Because it's the first time I see it.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 14:13:27


Post by: zedmeister


 Albertorius wrote:
Was that on any of the released books so far? Because it's the first time I see it.


Checking the blog post, it was at last years Heresy/Specialist Games Weekender.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 14:14:04


Post by: Albertorius


No wonder I didn't see it, then.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 14:19:55


Post by: Chopstick


Maybe a leader/Juve/Specialist ganger kit in the future. Keep expanding them.

I also hope Corspe Grinder cult got some specialist expansion too.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 14:33:16


Post by: aka_mythos


 Altruizine wrote:
 aka_mythos wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something, or maybe I've been playing the game all wrong, or I'm confused from past editions... I don't think of juves as "red shirts".... In many gangs juves are the only way to make up for any of the short comings of your faction and are also critical to longevity of campaign play. Are there factions that use them as fodder, sure, but its kinda critical for balancing those faction that become untenable in a campaign without something like fodder. Forcing you to take a model in place of juves, that has to come with a special or heavy weapons is either imbalanced or too expensive to be practical. If in a campaign players have a gang member die, they often times don't have the credits to get more than a juve with the cheapest weapons. Its a change that makes me think the game designer isn't playing thier own game in the way they intend, but are just playing a lot of one offs.

You definitely might be playing the game wrong (depending on your objectives, of course).

As it stands, a Juve isn't worth taking over a Ganger. The amount of time and experience it takes to get a Juve up to the statline a Ganger starts out with is too demanding. Throughout that period the Juve will be occupying a Crew spot in all scenarios that use random or limited Crew Size, while doing less effective work in-game than a Ganger would be doing. The Juve will also be influencing the fighter type ratio in your gang and making it more difficult to hire additional Champions.

There are very few scenarios where you would want to spend a limited treasury on a Juve, even if it's all you can afford. If you do that you'll be paying a hidden price for dozens of games as the Juve gets up to snuff. The opportunity cost of hiring the Juve instead of waiting a game and hiring a Ganger is too high. The only time you'd want to do this is if, for some reason, it is EXTREMELY important for you to win your next game, and you're willing to mortgage your future for the immediate advantage of an extra model on the board, pending scenario selection.
There maybe very few scenarios, but they're a very common one in campaign play. First is replenishing numbers. Second is to compensate for the meta that emerges over the course of a campaign. As others here will backup, in a campaign Juves can quickly become a significant part of your gang. They can quickly acquire skills and are overall more flexible over the course of a campaign than standard Gangers. There is something of cherry picking their advancements and you aren't using them to build up to the profile of your basic ganger you're building them up to be the type of ganger or champion you can't just buy.

 Altruizine wrote:

I don't know why people keep alluding to these guys "having to take" heavy weapons. Do Van Saar gangers "have to take" close combat loadouts with shock staves and shields? Do Enforcers "have to" send their gang out with nothing but a stubgun on 3/4 of the team? The weapons provided in a kit haven't had any relation to what a fighter may or may not equip to this point in the game.
Probably because of how much GW's presentation of the new models only talks about the new heavy/special weapons and only shows the new heavy/special weapons. They aren't depicting these as Juves+ or Juves and Prospects but as something taking the place of Juves. When asked they've pretty much said these are a replacement. It is a change to the character of a thing. They want Juves to be more than just a stepping stone by giving them access to weapons standard gangers don't have... but how does that make sense? Are all their weapons going to be prone to just exploding in their face or are we going swing the game over to just taking as many of these juves with fancy weapons as possible. They end up better off than your basic gangers, when they shouldn't be.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 15:37:27


Post by: Baxx


stato wrote:
A lot of worry about losing Juves, we've known the 'prospects' were a thing for a year now from when they showed this. Do people think they have changed their mind since?
http://castigatorschaos.blogspot.com/2019/02/the-future-of-necromunda-specialist.html

That picture doesn't make any sense. This is how fighters advance to different classes today:

Juve --> Champion
Ganger --> Specialist --> Champion

How do you translate that to the picture?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Altruizine wrote:

I don't know why people keep alluding to these guys "having to take" heavy weapons. Do Van Saar gangers "have to take" close combat loadouts with shock staves and shields? Do Enforcers "have to" send their gang out with nothing but a stubgun on 3/4 of the team? The weapons provided in a kit haven't had any relation to what a fighter may or may not equip to this point in the game.

You remember brutes? They can't choose weapons. Pets can't choose weapons. Today's Juves can't have the weapons shown on prospects. Today's champs can't carry the weapons shown on the super champs. All of them carry unwieldy double-handed weapons. The super champs are dual wielding. To me, this is strong implication these guys will carry what the photos say (or similar). Time will tell.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 15:40:44


Post by: jeff white


 Albertorius wrote:
Everybody who is freaking out is actually not. It's just that they are easier to dismiss if you say they are.

Geenieyus.


And yeah. I didnt see that diagram before either but still it doesny make sense... so a prospect is an underjuve?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 16:53:21


Post by: Altruizine


 aka_mythos wrote:
There maybe very few scenarios, but they're a very common one in campaign play. First is replenishing numbers. Second is to compensate for the meta that emerges over the course of a campaign. As others here will backup, in a campaign Juves can quickly become a significant part of your gang. They can quickly acquire skills and are overall more flexible over the course of a campaign than standard Gangers. There is something of cherry picking their advancements and you aren't using them to build up to the profile of your basic ganger you're building them up to be the type of ganger or champion you can't just buy.

I flat out do not believe that this is an accurate description of your gaming experience. What you are describing is the way Juves worked in Oldcromunda.

As already mentioned, a Juve does not replenish a wounded gang as effectively as another Ganger does, and there's almost never a reason desperate enough to take a Juve over saving for a Ganger. This gets MORE significant as a campaign progresses, not less; when your roster becomes large -- too large to include everybody in a limited/random Crew Size scenario -- you will want to have your most effective fighters on the table, and it takes a looooong time for a Juve to become more effective than a Ganger or a Champion.

Juves *do not* advance quickly. It takes 5XP to get to the first worthwhile tier of advancements (Movement). It takes 6XP to get to the first "good" tier of advancements (WS/BS) and that advancement will only put a Juve on par with what a Ganger starts with by default. It takes 9XP to choose one of the skills you referenced.

Unless you're playing with house rules to accelerate XP gain you're going to be averaging 1-2 XP a game. Often less on a Juve, who will have a harder time than a Ganger gaining XP for causing injuries (due to their poor WS/BS), and will often be targeted or isolated due to their typically-inferior defensive gear and the fact that they're an easy pick for worsening an opponent's bottle threshold. You're looking at 10+ games before a Juve can even begin carving out a niche for themselves, and even then their statline is going to have weaknesses that a Ganger's doesn't (like bad psych, bad backup WS/BS depending on what their primary choice between those two is, etc.)

Baxx wrote:

You remember brutes? They can't choose weapons. Pets can't choose weapons. Today's Juves can't have the weapons shown on prospects. Today's champs can't carry the weapons shown on the super champs. All of them carry unwieldy double-handed weapons. The super champs are dual wielding. To me, this is strong implication these guys will carry what the photos say (or similar). Time will tell.

Brutes and Pets have not been released in plastic. The very few that have been released at all are FW resin. Plastic always has more optionality than resin.

Furthermore, the graphic posted above (which I had not seen previously) obviously suggests that Brutes and "Specialist Champions" are different things. We haven't seen Specialist Champs before, so who knows, maybe they will have locked-in equipment... there's zero indication for that at the moment, but it's not unlikely either.

I suppose the graphic also suggests that Prospects won't be replacing Juves. It's kind of weird that the subtext of the graphic is that Prospects are "beneath" Juves (when they have those expensive-looking weapons).


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 17:12:53


Post by: beast_gts


Spoiler:
Enter the House of Chains


House Goliath gangs are about to get bigger, and we don’t mean gains from a new workout routine. A new book for Necromunda, House of Chains, focuses on the Goliaths and is about to prove that only the strongest survive in the underhive.

Background
House Goliath is the youngest of the six Clan Houses on Necromunda, and the House of Chains book takes a deep dive into their history, from their beginnings as slaves to the present day where they prosper. There’s a look at how the House is organised from the Over-tyrant, through the Alphas and down to the enclaves within a hive. It also takes a look at House industries, House territories and some gangs of legend.

Alongside the timelines and glorious new artwork, there are additional options for the tabletop too.

New Fighters
House of Chains introduces Prospects into gangs for the first time. These are the up-and-comers of the House and represent the future of the gang. In House Goliath, they’re called Forge-born, and they are desperate to prove themselves to the Alphas of the clan so they can take their place as future champions and leaders. As you can see from their profile, they’re not there quite yet.

They’re cheaper than a regular ganger and have different abilities to Juves, which offers you a lot of customisation in how you build your gang. These fighters also bring new weaponry with them. Choose a storm-welder to provide a high rate of covering fire so the rest of your gang can advance.

But what good are new rules without new models to go with them? Well, not only are the Goliath Forge-born getting some miniatures, but they come in a kit with Goliath Stimmers, who are new House-specific Champions.

Think those Stimmers look pretty deadly already? Well, wait until they activate their Combat Chems Stash and smash their way through the underhive. Of course, sometimes even Stimmers can have an adverse reaction.

It’s not just new fighters that Goliath are getting, though – there are a heap of gang-adjacent options too.

Hangers-on and Alliances
House of Chains introduces a range of new Hangers-on to Necromunda, including the Goliath-specific Pit Trainer. They can improve your fighters by putting them through a few rounds in the pit, but be careful – this is more than just sparring, and your gangers can get injured.

Depending on your preference, you can form an alliance with one of the noble Houses of Necromunda, House Greim, or the Slave Guild. Choosing the latter means that you may be sent a Slaver Entourage to “help out” your gang. Forge World are even producing some models to represent the Chain Lord, Shaklemen and Pit Fighters on the tabletop.

Whether you join an alliance or not, there are still plenty of ways to improve your Goliath fighters.

Grow Your Gang
The House of Chains goes into detail about the different origins of fighters in House Goliath, be they Vatborn (those created in a vat), Natborn (those born naturally) or Unborn (those from outside the House). If these fighters aren’t quite what you need, then there are rules to apply gene-smithing to them. Vatborn, Natborn and Unborn fighters can all take different Gene-smithed upgrades that increase both their characteristics and credit cost. Want your fighters to be even tougher than regular Goliaths? Give your Vatborn the Dermal Hardening upgrade and they will laugh off all but the strongest attacks.

Vatborns are your “baseline” Goliath fighters, but you can upgrade any number of them to Natborn or Unborn and then Gene-smith away to your heart’s content!

New Skills
To represent the physical dominance of House Goliath fighters, they now have access to a new skill set called, appropriately enough, Muscle. Maybe one of your fighters is so hard that he can just walk off wounds that he takes.

This is just a small sample of what you’ll find inside House of Chains. It’s absolutely packed with Goliath goodness, and it’s indispensable whether you play the gang or you’re just a fan of Necromunda and its background.

In the Gang
Of course, we couldn’t just let Goliath have all of the fun! All six House gangs are going to get their own book and, just like the House of Chains, they will all feature extensive background, new fighters, alliances, Bounty Hunters, House-specific tactics and more. Each gang will also get new plastic kits along with their book. Exciting, eh? Let’s take a look at the (Ash) road map for what’s coming up.

That’s not all – we’ll be keeping you up to date with all of the latest Necromunda news in a monthly series of articles called The Underhive Informer where we’ll be giving you sneak peeks of the upcoming books and models. The future of Necromunda has never been brighter.*

The House of Chains book is available to pre-order this Saturday alongside the new Stimmers and Forge-born models and the Mercator Sanguis Slaver Entourage. If you’ve not already started your own Goliath gang, this is the perfect time – grab a box of these muscle-bound fighters now.

* Although the underhive will remain the dark, brutal place it’s always been.




So one release per quarter is still a thing - House of Chains Q1, House of Blades (Escher) Q2, House of Iron (Orlock) Q3 & House of Artifice (VanSaar) Q4.

Spoiler:


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 17:21:04


Post by: Kanluwen


Dang. Just dang.

My Enforcers have to wait for next year. Oh well, means I can actually get what I own painted!


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 17:36:34


Post by: Sqorgar


 Kanluwen wrote:
Dang. Just dang.

My Enforcers have to wait for next year. Oh well, means I can actually get what I own painted!
Enforcers have already got their supplemental set with the Subjugators. They are the only faction which has two boxes so far. They went first!


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 17:38:17


Post by: ZebioLizard2


At least they confirmed the Prospects aren't replacing juves.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 17:47:20


Post by: Sqorgar


I think this is exciting stuff, though I'm still disappointed that they are leaning on ForgeWorld for so much of the content. I find the Orlock to be very bland, and this is an opportunity to flesh them out into something more than the Hipster Hair Club For Men (though if they don't have a skill called "mustache rides", I'll be disappointed).

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
At least they confirmed the Prospects aren't replacing juves.
I'm sure we'll find something else to argue about.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 17:54:36


Post by: Chopstick


Ouch, The storm welder doesn't look like a cheap weapon. And reckless mean you'd probably want them to stay at the front shooting at enemies (and die) before you advance, and hope they don't get captured, so you can recover their weapon for the next Forge born.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 17:59:33


Post by: Kanluwen


 Sqorgar wrote:
Enforcers have already got their supplemental set with the Subjugators. They are the only faction which has two boxes so far. They went first!

Personally, I don't view Subjugators as "supplemental" so much as "upgraded unit that actually needs modeling". Wouldn't be shocked if further down the line they bundle the two sets together.

If I had to throw out a speculation as to what we might see for the Enforcers, it would be the mentioned "Monitor" or a pair of beefy Cybermastiffs and Handlers.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 18:18:54


Post by: Altruizine


So Juves are confirmed to still exist, that should make (some) people happy. Although I'll be expecting to see variations of,

"Why are they making a kit for pseudo-Juves instead of actually making regular Juves???"

and

"Why are they making these pseudo-Juves more efficient than regular Juves, thus rendering regular Juves useless???"

before long.

Those Toughness/Wound regen abilities are extremely scary, sure hope they're not affordable enough to spam. High T can equate to near-invulnerability in this game, especially at the start of a campaign.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 18:30:58


Post by: lord_blackfang


 Sqorgar wrote:
I'm sure we'll find something else to argue about.


No we won't.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 18:33:49


Post by: Desubot


 Altruizine wrote:
So Juves are confirmed to still exist, that should make (some) people happy. Although I'll be expecting to see variations of,

"Why are they making a kit for pseudo-Juves instead of actually making regular Juves???"

and

"Why are they making these pseudo-Juves more efficient than regular Juves, thus rendering regular Juves useless???"

before long.

Those Toughness/Wound regen abilities are extremely scary, sure hope they're not affordable enough to spam. High T can equate to near-invulnerability in this game, especially at the start of a campaign.


Rhetorical questions for later. what is the price of the new prospects compared to juves.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 18:38:27


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 Altruizine wrote:
So Juves are confirmed to still exist, that should make (some) people happy. Although I'll be expecting to see variations of,

"Why are they making a kit for pseudo-Juves instead of actually making regular Juves???"

and

"Why are they making these pseudo-Juves more efficient than regular Juves, thus rendering regular Juves useless???"

before long.

Those Toughness/Wound regen abilities are extremely scary, sure hope they're not affordable enough to spam. High T can equate to near-invulnerability in this game, especially at the start of a campaign.


They’re not.

Concept of Prospects is that they’re a higher risk. I mean, look at that weapon profile. With Bs5+, he’s more a danger to himself than anyone else. Risk vs Reward. If one survives long they get different skills, and have a different value to your Gang.

With nowt more to currently go on, until more reveals or books in hand? I suspect that taking Prospects and Specialist Champs over Juves and Champs will result in a Gang more focussed on its House’s nominal strengths.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 18:40:02


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


I wonder if the Forge Whatevers will also have bits to model them as Juves.



Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 18:46:38


Post by: Desubot


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I wonder if the Forge Whatevers will also have bits to model them as Juves.



Honestly hoping the arms connect under the chest plate. then converting with just arm swaps should be easy.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 18:50:28


Post by: The Forgemaster


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I wonder if the Forge Whatevers will also have bits to model them as Juves.



if not , it would probably be fairly easy to convert.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 19:05:55


Post by: Crimson


 The Forgemaster wrote:
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I wonder if the Forge Whatevers will also have bits to model them as Juves.

if not , it would probably be fairly easy to convert.

Yep. So juves are not gone and we effectively have new juve models too. Sounds like a good deal to me.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 19:11:03


Post by: zedmeister


Looks like the fella on the right is our first new pit slave



Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 19:14:15


Post by: Chopstick


They're the slaver guild entourage. From the left : Chain lord, Pit fighter, Shakle man, pit fighter.

From the book of peril.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 19:23:23


Post by: aka_mythos



Yep... that's what I thought. Isn't this release plan exactly like what necessitated throwing out the Gang War books? Anyone wanna bet 2 years out we'll get Gangs of the Underhive 2 announced?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 19:37:29


Post by: Sqorgar


 aka_mythos wrote:
Yep... that's what I thought. Isn't this release plan exactly like what necessitated throwing out the Gang War books? Anyone wanna bet 2 years out we'll get Gangs of the Underhive 2 announced?
They've indicated that these books are similar to a faction codex, so it is possible that Necromunda has grown too large for a compilation book like Gangs. I expect Gangs to be replaced by these codices and an annual book that has a yearly updated trading post, skills, points, and possibly gang tactics.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 19:43:33


Post by: Kanluwen


 Sqorgar wrote:
 aka_mythos wrote:
Yep... that's what I thought. Isn't this release plan exactly like what necessitated throwing out the Gang War books? Anyone wanna bet 2 years out we'll get Gangs of the Underhive 2 announced?
They've indicated that these books are similar to a faction codex, so it is possible that Necromunda has grown too large for a compilation book like Gangs. I expect Gangs to be replaced by these codices and an annual book that has a yearly updated trading post, skills, points, and possibly gang tactics.

There was a mention on the Facebooks today that someone wanting to play just a specific gang, after these books drop, "will only need to own a main rulebook and one of these Gang books".


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 20:28:44


Post by: zedmeister


Chopstick wrote:
They're the slaver guild entourage. From the left : Chain lord, Pit fighter, Shakle man, pit fighter.

From the book of peril.


Indeed, but the fella on the right looks likely to make a run for it and found his own gang/sell his abilities to the highest bidder!


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 20:41:49


Post by: Segersgia


 zedmeister wrote:
Looks like the fella on the right is our first new pit slave

Spoiler:


Don't really like the design so far of these guild members. The Shackleman seems a little overdesigned compared to his artwork from the Book of Peril.



Still, this proves that Guilds are getting models in the far future. The Promethium, Water and Corpse Guild have such awsome pieces of artwork. They make me think of Bioshock for some reason.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 21:18:05


Post by: The Power Cosmic


 zedmeister wrote:
Looks like the fella on the right is our first new pit slave



Well dang, those are some fine models. Shame they're forgeworld...


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 21:45:30


Post by: Altruizine


It's kind of implied by the article that the Slaver's Guild will be reprinted/revised in the new book (unless that aside was just a non-sequitur to preview the FW product).

If that happens it'll be another ugly instance of the game stealth-updating and spreading rules around willy-nilly. Can you imagine if every Gang Book reprints/revises the gang's Guilder ally of choice? Baxx will need counseling.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 22:16:25


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Those Pit Fighter guys are nifty. Very detailed minis.

 Altruizine wrote:
Although I'll be expecting to see variations of... before long.
Way to poison the well dude...


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 22:29:27


Post by: aka_mythos


 Kanluwen wrote:
 Sqorgar wrote:
 aka_mythos wrote:
Yep... that's what I thought. Isn't this release plan exactly like what necessitated throwing out the Gang War books? Anyone wanna bet 2 years out we'll get Gangs of the Underhive 2 announced?
They've indicated that these books are similar to a faction codex, so it is possible that Necromunda has grown too large for a compilation book like Gangs. I expect Gangs to be replaced by these codices and an annual book that has a yearly updated trading post, skills, points, and possibly gang tactics.

There was a mention on the Facebooks today that someone wanting to play just a specific gang, after these books drop, "will only need to own a main rulebook and one of these Gang books".

As opposed to owning the rulebook and just underhive gangs for most gangs or a particular "Book of..." for some of the additions since?
....Or before that when it was just needing the rulebook and a gang corresponding Gang Wars book?

It just seems like GW is waffling back and forth. It kinda doesn't matter how easy it is to say "you only need this and the rulebook"... when there is a pile of books someone has to be told they need to ignore that are all technically part of this edition but have significantly diminished or no usefulness... I keep trying to get more people to play this game and the number of books is intimidating. They will ask me "and how long before its updated and I have to buy it again?" To them, to many, this will come off as the third time in just over 3 years that they'd be re-buying rules.

Specialist games have a lot of inertia to get a community going and sustaining it. A lot of the people I had interested in a campaign, their big draw was that the game hadn't resorted to the codex -recycle-release cycle and enough elements were locked in... less fear of books getting invalidated assuaged by the fact GW just streamlined things down to the underhive gangs book and feeling like the prior series of "Book of ..." were optional. To them this is regressive and a move towards what they didn't want.

There is still a lot of ground for this game to cover but with how many different releases since 2017 have just been "here is the gang's rule"... "no, now these are the gangs rules"... "wait this is what you need for this gang"...?-It seems like some of the corners of the setting we were promised at the beginning will never be touched until right before they decide refresh things again.

Whether its because this is many people's secondary game or because they're just hobbyists that might spend months on a gang with the hopes of eventually playing... whatever this is, its a pivot into the untenable to many of them.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 23:44:07


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Does kind of make sense though.

Gangs of the Underhive suits a group starting out. One copy can be shared between them.

More experienced and committed groups? Pick up your House Book.

Then there’s weirdos like me that like to own everything. And I inevitably will.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 23:44:59


Post by: Altruizine


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Those Pit Fighter guys are nifty. Very detailed minis.

 Altruizine wrote:
Although I'll be expecting to see variations of... before long.
Way to poison the well dude...

Some antibiotics were in order. Now that "don't tread on my regular Juves" has been eliminated as a reason to hate this release, I'm excited to hear the next, more refined reason it's actually bad from the mouths of N&R's most notorious faultfinders.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/11 23:45:20


Post by: Baxx


 Altruizine wrote:

Brutes and Pets have not been released in plastic. The very few that have been released at all are FW resin. Plastic always has more optionality than resin.
Ambot? Otherwise I agree with you on juces not being worthwhile. The most efficient way to build a roster are champions (except leader who can only be purchased once at start). Everything else is less cost efficient. Leveling up your fighters is worse than buying fresh champs already leveled up. It is a big flaw (among many) in the new campaign system.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
At least they confirmed the Prospects aren't replacing juves.
No, it's levels in levels. I believe space marines, scouts and terminators are still a thing, but not as impressive today as they were 15 years ago.

Reckless on a close combat weapon is not really a problem because mostly you can pick your battles and many fights are not with a friendly fighter B2B. This one weapon is Ranged, so reckless has bigger effect, but still manageable. Expect to see more reckless for the other close combat weapons. BTW we already have the arc wielder. Do we need a new weapon profile each time they make the same weapon? We already got close to 200 unique weapon profiles... With more to come.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Altruizine wrote:

If that happens it'll be another ugly instance of the game stealth-updating and spreading rules around willy-nilly. Can you imagine if every Gang Book reprints/revises the gang's Guilder ally of choice? Baxx will need counseling.
Actually they need to rewrite Guilder rules because they don't come with a point cost (most of them are easily valuable for 500+ credits) and they don't even specify how many fighters are in each guild!


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/12 00:19:08


Post by: Grot 6


 aka_mythos wrote:

Yep... that's what I thought. Isn't this release plan exactly like what necessitated throwing out the Gang War books? Anyone wanna bet 2 years out we'll get Gangs of the Underhive 2 announced?


6 months tops, if not by Christmas/ Boxer Day. You hear it here first.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:
Baxx wrote:
 Altruizine wrote:

Brutes and Pets have not been released in plastic. The very few that have been released at all are FW resin. Plastic always has more optionality than resin.
Ambot? Otherwise I agree with you on juces not being worthwhile. The most efficient way to build a roster are champions (except leader who can only be purchased once at start). Everything else is less cost efficient. Leveling up your fighters is worse than buying fresh champs already leveled up. It is a big flaw (among many) in the new campaign system.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
At least they confirmed the Prospects aren't replacing juves.
No, it's levels in levels. I believe space marines, scouts and terminators are still a thing, but not as impressive today as they were 15 years ago.

Reckless on a close combat weapon is not really a problem because mostly you can pick your battles and many fights are not with a friendly fighter B2B. This one weapon is Ranged, so reckless has bigger effect, but still manageable. Expect to see more reckless for the other close combat weapons. BTW we already have the arc wielder. Do we need a new weapon profile each time they make the same weapon? We already got close to 200 unique weapon profiles... With more to come.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Altruizine wrote:

If that happens it'll be another ugly instance of the game stealth-updating and spreading rules around willy-nilly. Can you imagine if every Gang Book reprints/revises the gang's Guilder ally of choice? Baxx will need counseling.
Actually they need to rewrite Guilder rules because they don't come with a point cost (most of them are easily valuable for 500+ credits) and they don't even specify how many fighters are in each guild! [/quote


You remember when we had that conversation on the different guilders, and the additional troop type non-gangers?

Guess what... You were correct on the Blood Gang, They brought them out first, and THIS is the first of 6 new book for another Guilder aspect.

They center on Goliaths, I expect that the Pit fighter hired gun, and sub gang will be making an appearance in a couple of weeks. THEN we have the subsets of the subsets from the other books that still need figures.


Never attribute to conspiracy what is clearly dictated by incompetency. Specialist games looks like a total Gakshow at this point without a specific leader focused long term plan. At this point, these are a whole bunch of subset game committees running around within this company doing whatever they want to, as the release committee over at Head office dictates their releases.

If you spread out the projects, you can see that these guys are either working from good idea fairy source material, or that someone other then the designers is dictating the release schedule.

I used to work in a leaderless Gakshow like this.... Glad I left.

I can predict the future, and it includes pushed back release dates, lack of QA/QC, and more $50.00 source books without the corresponding figures.
Remember when they pawned off Necromunda 1 to Forgeworld, and then the game was a completely dropped the ball in response?

Pepperridge Farms Remembers….


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/12 01:09:46


Post by: Chopstick


 Segersgia wrote:


Don't really like the design so far of these guild members. The Shackleman seems a little overdesigned compared to his artwork from the Book of Peril.



Shakleman carry cult icon and shock stave in their profile. They just don't have the space to include one in that artwork.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/12 02:08:07


Post by: ZebioLizard2


Baxx wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
At least they confirmed the Prospects aren't replacing juves.
No, it's levels in levels. I believe space marines, scouts and terminators are still a thing, but not as impressive today as they were 15 years ago.

Reckless on a close combat weapon is not really a problem because mostly you can pick your battles and many fights are not with a friendly fighter B2B. This one weapon is Ranged, so reckless has bigger effect, but still manageable. Expect to see more reckless for the other close combat weapons. BTW we already have the arc wielder. Do we need a new weapon profile each time they make the same weapon? We already got close to 200 unique weapon profiles... With more to come.


Did you quote the wrong person? Not sure how that comment relates.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/12 02:46:32


Post by: Chopstick


Probably quoting me, and the "arc welder" of the ogryn is a melee torch, while the "storm welder" is a guns that shoot out lightning, wouldn't call those 2 "same weapon"

There is a more precise version of the lightning gun however, the Arc rifle, which is also, not the same thing.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/12 09:56:36


Post by: Baxx


 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Did you quote the wrong person? Not sure how that comment relates.
Sorry, didn't fully relate no.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/12 15:22:02


Post by: Motograter


There's won't be a compilation book for these as the new books clock in at 160 pages


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/12 17:27:38


Post by: Baxx


For those who are put off by the amount of books and pages, please know that you can find fan made rule compilation compressed to only 230 pages (100% complete). Maybe it will be 20-30 pages more with the content from all the new house books.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/12 23:06:32


Post by: Thyrllann


Baxx wrote:

Actually they need to rewrite Guilder rules because they don't come with a point cost (most of them are easily valuable for 500+ credits) and they don't even specify how many fighters are in each guild!


I didn't think that the guilds had a points cost, they just came along with the gang if you met the requirements to get a band of guild members to come along? Oh, unless you're talking about how the guild groups affect gang rating? If so, then yeah, I can't find anything that talks about that at all

But they do specify how many fighters are in each gang - for all of the guilds bar the Iron Guild, they have one 'leader' analogue (Guild Procurator), one 'champion' analogue (Guild Factotum), and one or two 'ganger' analogues (Bodyguards). Going through the guilds, the Water Guild has one bodyguard, the Promethium Guild has two, the Corpse Guild has two, the Slave Guild has two, and the Guild of Coin has two. The Iron Guild is different, in that instead of a leader/champion/1-2 gangers group, you get D3+2 hive scum.

Page 33 give you the basic numbers (1 leader, 1 champion, 1-2 gangers) and on each of the Guild sections from p34-39 they talk about how each of the fighters in the delegations is armed - the water guild bodyguard is referred to in the singular, while the rest are referred to as pairs ('both').

They could definitely make these numbers a hell of a lot clearer, but they are there


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 15:38:43


Post by: Chopstick


Did they have any errata/clarification in the book about getting the free dudes for outlaw guild? outlaw guild you can get the dude for free but the normal guild you need to roll d6+rep everytime you want to call them?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 16:04:19


Post by: Chikout


Well this is a nice surprise. A new Necromunda gang.

[Thumb - F2BDB99F-2810-4EB8-A8DD-0C49F1BDBB65.png]


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 16:08:20


Post by: grahamdbailey


Chikout wrote:
Well this is a nice surprise. A new Necromunda gang.


Are they a new gang, or is this just the (finally) release of the Ogryn brutes for use in any gang?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 16:09:39


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


Well hello there! I can only imagine what kinda options these guys will have! Looks like a fun set.

Coincidentally Artel W just put out a whole bunch of Necromunda- styled Brutes in case you have a hunkering for Underhive- related models that don't have official releases yet.

An example-
Spoiler:


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 16:10:40


Post by: Chikout


grahamdbailey wrote:
Chikout wrote:
Well this is a nice surprise. A new Necromunda gang.


Are they a new gang, or is this just the (finally) release of the Ogryn brutes for use in any gang?


A whole new gang according to the article.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/13/house-of-chains-ogryns-in-the-underhivegw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-2/


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 16:24:49


Post by: Binabik15


From the preview pic I thought the article would be about a well-kitbashed BB Ogre with Kastellan arms. A real gang? Pretty awesome.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 16:25:05


Post by: grahamdbailey


Chikout wrote:
grahamdbailey wrote:
Chikout wrote:
Well this is a nice surprise. A new Necromunda gang.


Are they a new gang, or is this just the (finally) release of the Ogryn brutes for use in any gang?


A whole new gang according to the article.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/13/house-of-chains-ogryns-in-the-underhivegw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-2/



Nice! The models look cool.
Interesting addition to the gang ranks.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 16:36:08


Post by: Chopstick


I hope they can get some of the option from the Ogryn kit.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 16:51:33


Post by: Desubot


Oh man those are cool. honestly though that guy with the tesla back pack could be converted into a really cool looking ork mek.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 16:53:37


Post by: Mentlegen324


Chikout wrote:
Well this is a nice surprise. A new Necromunda gang.


I'm a bit confused about these. The article says they're Ogryn slaves who have rebelled and are trying to stay free, but the article also says they're "‘Jotunn’ H-Grade Servitor Ogryns". How can they be both independent enough to do that, and be servitors? Servitors are mindless pre-progammed cyborgs. It seems contradictory to what Servitors are meant to be to have a Gang of Ogryn Servitors who are now free.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 17:00:49


Post by: Cyrixiinus


 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Chikout wrote:
Well this is a nice surprise. A new Necromunda gang.


I'm a bit confused about these. The article says they're Ogryn slaves who have rebelled and are trying to stay free, but the article also says they're "‘Jotunn’ H-Grade Servitor Ogryns". How can they be both independent enough to do that, and be servitors? Servitors are mindless pre-progammed cyborgs. It seems contradictory to what Servitors are meant to be to have a Gang of Ogryn Servitors who are now free.


I think it's that the models can be used for both.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 17:16:24


Post by: Chopstick


Hmmm T.H.R.U.G 12 is a house Van Saar Ogryn.

Turn out they aren't very loyal after all.

I reckon there're someone pulling strings behind these Ogryn rebel.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 17:23:58


Post by: zedmeister


These are looking like a plastic kit to me. The middle and right one shares the same body but the left and right share the same legs. Plastic servitor ogryns anyone?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 17:49:13


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Tempted to get a box because reasons.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 18:07:41


Post by: Altruizine


Wow, those Ogryn models are gorgeous. Can't wait to get hands on them.

Also glad that my converted Brute will more or less fit alongside them (https://yaktribe.games/community/media/ogryn1-jpg.35130/full).

I do wonder what their equipment outlook will be. Can they take chonker versions of normal Trading Post weapons, or will they be tightly restricted to their own custom armoury? It's a converter's dream if we'd actually get to build big-boy autoguns and other wacky stuff.

A gang of T5 is scary, but if they don't have a way around getting Pinned I don't know if they'll be competitive. They have bad BS, probably short-range shooting anyway, and will be creeping 5" towards the enemy every turn any time they need to unpin themselves.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 18:27:58


Post by: GaroRobe


 Altruizine wrote:


Also glad that my converted Brute will more or less fit alongside them (https://yaktribe.games/community/media/ogryn1-jpg.35130/full).

.


No offense to the new models, but honestly, I love the way your model looks even more

I can't wait to see what options these guys will get, head wise. Or what FW will come up with to give them

Worth noting that the two on the right have the same torso, and the blokes on either end have the same left hand.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 20:04:34


Post by: Clockpunk


What a surprise! I definitely need to sell my WarCry collection now, in order to be able to afford all this sweetness!

The FB team has confirmed they are multipart plastic.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 20:19:24


Post by: the_scotsman


Those are JUST incredible. Holy freaking crap! I need three!


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 20:32:33


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


MYSTIC GROTSNIK PREDICTS SALES OF FW’s HERESY OGRYNS MAY SOON DIP!

Mystic Grotsnik has spoooookkkkeeeeeeennnnnnn!


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 20:47:10


Post by: Haighus


Oooooh those ogryns are great. The fact they are also plastic is just gravy. I've been wanting to make some more-or-less civilian ogryns


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 21:00:04


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Cool looking Ogryn but... W2?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 21:04:50


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Cool looking Ogryn but... W2?


Yeah. I clocked that. Seems a bit weedy. But still, T5. That’s a 5+ for most starting gang weapons?

Also.....when exactly do you sleep? You seem to be up and posting when I am


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 22:03:38


Post by: GoatboyBeta


Well they look cool. I wonder if the other House books will have new but related gangs in them as well?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 22:08:50


Post by: Baxx


Errors already starting to show. Maul/club with no positive AP? Las cutter with Scarce no longer has Ammo value? How does that work? Quality is going to be sheet.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/13 22:09:57


Post by: The Phazer


They're a bit out of the blue, but really excellent models.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 01:31:44


Post by: MajorWesJanson


They are worth getting a set just to mix into IG or Admech. Glad they are plastic, and nice to see more esoteric units getting models.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 07:19:51


Post by: Agamemnon2


The ogryns are fantastic models. I want to get a few just to accompany my tech priest on the display shelf. I'm sure he could use the muscle to replace Baneblade track links, etc. Thanks for the hint about Artel W's version as well, I love that they have one with a Juggernaut helmet.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 11:35:31


Post by: ekwatts


Yep, absolutely loving the Ogryn gang.

Is it confirmed they're plastic?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 11:48:49


Post by: beast_gts


 ekwatts wrote:
Is it confirmed they're plastic?

I've not seen anything confirming it, but the duplicate elements on the models hint at it.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 13:51:25


Post by: ImAGeek


beast_gts wrote:
 ekwatts wrote:
Is it confirmed they're plastic?

I've not seen anything confirming it, but the duplicate elements on the models hint at it.


It was confirmed on Facebook, according to someone on bolter and Chainsword.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 14:12:47


Post by: beast_gts


 ImAGeek wrote:
beast_gts wrote:
 ekwatts wrote:
Is it confirmed they're plastic?

I've not seen anything confirming it, but the duplicate elements on the models hint at it.


It was confirmed on Facebook, according to someone on bolter and Chainsword.


Yep - found it!




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:








[Thumb - og.jpg]


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 14:16:59


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Wonderful minis. Looks to be just two poses, so if we're lucky then we'll get 4 to a box?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 14:17:48


Post by: GaroRobe


The warhammer Instagram posted a pic showing off more of the ogryns. One head is very closer to FW mad dog mono's...I can work with that. They even have the same color scheme.

Options are:
Augmetic fist
Arc welder (fist plus the back coil)
Spud jacker
Storm welder

Helmeted ones are lobo slaves




Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 14:18:56


Post by: Chopstick


Storm welder isn't a great weapon for these guys.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 14:24:49


Post by: DaveC


GaroRobe wrote:
The warhammer Instagram posted a pic showing off more of the ogryns. One head is very closer to FW mad dog mono's...I can work with that. They even have the same color scheme.

Options are:
Augmetic fist
Arc welder (fist plus the back coil)
Spud jacker
Storm welder

Helmeted ones are lobo slaves


Quick screencap of the 3 not shown yesterday


[Thumb - SlaveOgryns.png]


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 14:36:49


Post by: ImAGeek


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wonderful minis. Looks to be just two poses, so if we're lucky then we'll get 4 to a box?


Yeah, I think 2 to a sprue, 2 sprues in the box.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 14:40:45


Post by: Chopstick


Couldn't imagine a gang with only 2 guys, so 4 seem appropriate


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 15:00:00


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Agreed. Very, very outside chance of six to a box (three sets of sprues)?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 15:23:51


Post by: Galas


In the promotional image, there where three ogryns... so thats how many I believe will come in the box.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 15:30:43


Post by: ImAGeek


 Galas wrote:
In the promotional image, there where three ogryns... so thats how many I believe will come in the box.


There can’t be three, because there’s 2 different sets of legs and two different torso fronts, so they have to be in multiples of 2.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 15:40:41


Post by: Agamemnon2


Two pairs of legs is a bit meh, but I bet you're left with so many spare bitz from one box that converting more from plastic ogryns or ogres is totes doable. I expect Ogryn gangs would be very small, anyway, like 3-4 fighters tops?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 15:44:19


Post by: Kanluwen


 ImAGeek wrote:
 Galas wrote:
In the promotional image, there where three ogryns... so thats how many I believe will come in the box.


There can’t be three, because there’s 2 different sets of legs and two different torso fronts, so they have to be in multiples of 2.

It's possibly three, with duplicates of one sprue and a single of the other.

Not likely, mind, just that it's a possibility the one sprue was intended for the named character but instead they figured they'd just throw him in with the normal stuff.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 15:49:43


Post by: ImAGeek


 Kanluwen wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:
 Galas wrote:
In the promotional image, there where three ogryns... so thats how many I believe will come in the box.


There can’t be three, because there’s 2 different sets of legs and two different torso fronts, so they have to be in multiples of 2.

It's possibly three, with duplicates of one sprue and a single of the other.

Not likely, mind, just that it's a possibility the one sprue was intended for the named character but instead they figured they'd just throw him in with the normal stuff.


And the parts just happen to be interchangeable between the character and the normal ones? I’d say that scenario is ‘not likely’ to the point of almost impossibility.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 15:51:58


Post by: beast_gts


 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I expect Ogryn gangs would be very small, anyway, like 3-4 fighters tops?


The "‘Jotunn’ H-Grade Servitor-Ogryn" brute is 210 credits, so 4 sounds about right.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 15:58:30


Post by: Kanluwen


 ImAGeek wrote:

And the parts just happen to be interchangeable between the character and the normal ones? I’d say that scenario is ‘not likely’ to the point of almost impossibility.

Like I said, it's a possibility. T.H.R.U.G. 12(Lascutter, Augmetic Fist, Maul) hasn't been pictured yet but his loadout seems possible from what we've seen.

Also worth noting that, as far as I'm aware, we haven't seen the middle Ogryn with a Storm Welder:
Spoiler:

We've seen that pose with Arc Welders though.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 15:58:32


Post by: Bob Lorgar


"Spud jacker"? What on earth does that thing have to do with potatoes? And since when is "wrench" a not-good-enough name?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 16:05:07


Post by: ekwatts


It'll be the same as every other Necromunda plastic kit: One sprue repeated. So likely two sets of duplicated bodies.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 16:06:11


Post by: Chopstick


Bob Lorgar wrote:
"Spud jacker"? What on earth does that thing have to do with potatoes? And since when is "wrench" a not-good-enough name?


It's not a wrench, it's an oversized caliper.

 Kanluwen wrote:


Also worth noting that, as far as I'm aware, we haven't seen the middle Ogryn with a Storm Welder:
Spoiler:

We've seen that pose with Arc Welders though.


The middle body and the one to the right use the same body, just different legs. All of these Ogryn's bodies have a metal stump in their right shoulder, allow you to left it as it is, or put on weapons, and pose it a bit without affecting the muscle definition.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 16:07:38


Post by: aka_mythos


 Kanluwen wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:
 Galas wrote:
In the promotional image, there where three ogryns... so thats how many I believe will come in the box.


There can’t be three, because there’s 2 different sets of legs and two different torso fronts, so they have to be in multiples of 2.

It's possibly three, with duplicates of one sprue and a single of the other.

Not likely, mind, just that it's a possibility the one sprue was intended for the named character but instead they figured they'd just throw him in with the normal stuff.
Maybe I'm mistaken but I think saw over on FB more than just those first 3 pictures. It seems they've done up the models to show the different distinct builds and not necessarily reflect what comes in the kit.

As far as gang size goes, if the Ogryn brute is anything to go by, those are ~200 credits a piece without any of the new fancy stuff. So a gang should be no more than 5 models at 1000 credits, but you'd likely have to or want to equip them with the fancy gear in the new kit.... which means you might do 4 for ~800 credits, then spend 200 on better gear for a couple of them. So 2 boxes of 2 to build a gang makes sense... Unfortunately because it makes sense its that much more likely GW will sell them 3 to a box and force you to buy to 2 boxes of 3 to get your 4.

I think this might be the first game where a lascutter was actually something to worry about.

That said, I really want to build one to have double bionic arms, double bionic legs, and the visored head.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 16:10:11


Post by: Kanluwen


 aka_mythos wrote:
Maybe I'm mistaken but I think saw over on FB more than just those first 3 pictures. It seems they've done up the models to show the different distinct builds and not necessarily reflect what comes in the kit.

There's a bunch of different ones shown in this very thread, but none showing the middle pose with a Storm Welder. That's why I said what I did.
Beast_gts posted some a bit up, DaveC put another.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 16:13:31


Post by: aka_mythos


Now that we have an all brute gang... I can't help but look at the Arachni-rig and see it as notionally in the spirit of Spyrers... easy imagining them being updated as an all brute gang... gives me hope.

 Kanluwen wrote:
 aka_mythos wrote:
Maybe I'm mistaken but I think saw over on FB more than just those first 3 pictures. It seems they've done up the models to show the different distinct builds and not necessarily reflect what comes in the kit.

There's a bunch of different ones shown in this very thread, but none showing the middle pose with a Storm Welder. That's why I said what I did.
Beast_gts posted some a bit up, DaveC put another.
Gotcha. I agree it really seems to be the special character or like you said single sprue of that pose and double of the other.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 16:23:50


Post by: The Forgemaster


 ImAGeek wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wonderful minis. Looks to be just two poses, so if we're lucky then we'll get 4 to a box?


Yeah, I think 2 to a sprue, 2 sprues in the box.


I bet they are going to come in a box of 3, but the the minimum gang size would be 4 - typical GW to force you to buy more boxes...


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 16:37:24


Post by: Chopstick


Making 2 different sprue would cost them more, I doubt GW would do this.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 16:44:26


Post by: ekwatts


It'll be one sprue repeated, like every box so far. Which means an even number of Ogryns, likely 4.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 16:58:51


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Did we get definite confirmation that these are only usable as a Gang, and can’t be hired guns?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 17:02:19


Post by: Chopstick


Obviously they can be also used as a Servitor Ogryn brute,,,, provided you got the credit, and a free hanger-on slot.... so very limited use in gang.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 17:03:27


Post by: beast_gts


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Did we get definite confirmation that these are only usable as a Gang, and can’t be hired guns?

The "‘Jotunn’ H-Grade Servitor-Ogryn" brute already exists, and can be built from the kit.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 17:10:58


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


A very good point! Didn’t think of that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Man, I’d be tempted to work them in as an NPC type game for a heavy narrative campaign.

Gangs try to raid an industrial site, harm an overseer, and the Ogryns have none of it.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 17:19:16


Post by: ImAGeek


There’s been promo photos with incomplete unit sizes/ box contents before so the fact that there’s 3 in the first photo is not a great indicator that there’ll be 3 in the kit, especially when all the other evidence points to it being an even number.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 17:21:36


Post by: Kanluwen


 ImAGeek wrote:
There’s been promo photos with incomplete unit sizes/ box contents before so the fact that there’s 3 in the first photo is not a great indicator that there’ll be 3 in the kit, especially when all the other evidence points to it being an even number.

What evidence points to it being an even number?

It's also worth mentioning that the promo shots with incomplete unit sizes/box contents are usually because of duplicates being present--but they still note the duplication.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 17:40:05


Post by: ImAGeek


 Kanluwen wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:
There’s been promo photos with incomplete unit sizes/ box contents before so the fact that there’s 3 in the first photo is not a great indicator that there’ll be 3 in the kit, especially when all the other evidence points to it being an even number.

What evidence points to it being an even number?

It's also worth mentioning that the promo shots with incomplete unit sizes/box contents are usually because of duplicates being present--but they still note the duplication.


2 sets of legs, 2 torso fronts in different combinations in all of the images. All other Necromunda gangs are 1 sprue duplicated (including the new Goliath one coming this week), which would make it an even number.



Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 17:40:36


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


Would be even sweeter if these parts are already compatible out of the box with the current Ogryn kit.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 18:19:53


Post by: Kanluwen


 ImAGeek wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:
There’s been promo photos with incomplete unit sizes/ box contents before so the fact that there’s 3 in the first photo is not a great indicator that there’ll be 3 in the kit, especially when all the other evidence points to it being an even number.

What evidence points to it being an even number?

It's also worth mentioning that the promo shots with incomplete unit sizes/box contents are usually because of duplicates being present--but they still note the duplication.


2 sets of legs, 2 torso fronts in different combinations in all of the images. All other Necromunda gangs are 1 sprue duplicated (including the new Goliath one coming this week), which would make it an even number.

Maybe, maybe not. The only duplication we've seen here has been the running bodied Ogryn...which incidentally has also been the only one shown with the Storm Welder.

We've seen the Arc Welder on both sets of bodies, and it looks like it is just a backpack with wires that run to it, and the right arm version just brings an extra wire that hooks into an augmetic fist.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 18:21:06


Post by: Agamemnon2


I always liked the look of the Pit Slave gang they put out in White Dwarf sometime during Necromunda's second edition, and a gang of renegade ogryn labor cyborgs might be as close as we get to those lads, so I might be open to buying this box. Depends on how the gang rules themselves look like, for things like variety, expansion potential, and so on.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Would be even sweeter if these parts are already compatible out of the box with the current Ogryn kit.


Probably not out of the box, modern GW design usually has more bespoke arrangements than that, but I expect there's going to be some intercompatibility.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 18:48:12


Post by: GaroRobe




I knew that head looked familiar...


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 20:10:36


Post by: aka_mythos


 Kanluwen wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:
There’s been promo photos with incomplete unit sizes/ box contents before so the fact that there’s 3 in the first photo is not a great indicator that there’ll be 3 in the kit, especially when all the other evidence points to it being an even number.

What evidence points to it being an even number?

It's also worth mentioning that the promo shots with incomplete unit sizes/box contents are usually because of duplicates being present--but they still note the duplication.


2 sets of legs, 2 torso fronts in different combinations in all of the images. All other Necromunda gangs are 1 sprue duplicated (including the new Goliath one coming this week), which would make it an even number.

Maybe, maybe not. The only duplication we've seen here has been the running bodied Ogryn...which incidentally has also been the only one shown with the Storm Welder.

We've seen the Arc Welder on both sets of bodies, and it looks like it is just a backpack with wires that run to it, and the right arm version just brings an extra wire that hooks into an augmetic fist.
I'm gonna go out on a limb... I think there is only one sprue, that can be built into either pose depending on which lower legs you select. If you look at the folds of the pants particularly how they converge towards the cod piece... its identical for both models... so maybe there is a basic body and upper legs and 4 different below the knee lower legs. Then it looks like there are two different belly pieces and two different neck area (between suspenders), 4 different arms, 4 different heads, 2 different back packs... then all the little bits. If that is how it goes together, that could easily all fit on a single sprue. At that point its just like the Ambot where they throw two identical sprues in a box and call it a kit.

Something else to consider and this is a "maybe"... but both backpacks are symmetrical with 2 narrow cylindrically symmetrical sections assembled on the back. If the sprue were limited on space and they were committed to selling them in kits of 2 sprues, they might only be 1/2 of each backpack on each sprue


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 20:16:43


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Dunno. The positioning of the thighs show two sculpts?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 21:13:35


Post by: Altruizine


 aka_mythos wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:
There’s been promo photos with incomplete unit sizes/ box contents before so the fact that there’s 3 in the first photo is not a great indicator that there’ll be 3 in the kit, especially when all the other evidence points to it being an even number.

What evidence points to it being an even number?

It's also worth mentioning that the promo shots with incomplete unit sizes/box contents are usually because of duplicates being present--but they still note the duplication.


2 sets of legs, 2 torso fronts in different combinations in all of the images. All other Necromunda gangs are 1 sprue duplicated (including the new Goliath one coming this week), which would make it an even number.

Maybe, maybe not. The only duplication we've seen here has been the running bodied Ogryn...which incidentally has also been the only one shown with the Storm Welder.

We've seen the Arc Welder on both sets of bodies, and it looks like it is just a backpack with wires that run to it, and the right arm version just brings an extra wire that hooks into an augmetic fist.
I'm gonna go out on a limb... I think there is only one sprue, that can be built into either pose depending on which lower legs you select. If you look at the folds of the pants particularly how they converge towards the cod piece... its identical for both models... so maybe there is a basic body and upper legs and 4 different below the knee lower legs. Then it looks like there are two different belly pieces and two different neck area (between suspenders), 4 different arms, 4 different heads, 2 different back packs... then all the little bits. If that is how it goes together, that could easily all fit on a single sprue. At that point its just like the Ambot where they throw two identical sprues in a box and call it a kit.

Something else to consider and this is a "maybe"... but both backpacks are symmetrical with 2 narrow cylindrically symmetrical sections assembled on the back. If the sprue were limited on space and they were committed to selling them in kits of 2 sprues, they might only be 1/2 of each backpack on each sprue

Interesting thought, but if you look at the strap on the left leg you can see that it is different in each config. One strap is buckled after two stitches, the other is buckled after three.

It doesn't totally quash your idea, but it would be a very unusual design for that strap detail to be a separate bit that lays into a cavity on the anterior thigh, rather than being moulded directly into the thigh.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 21:59:13


Post by: ekwatts


Every single Necromunda plastic box so far has been one sprue replicated. Every single box. It is cheaper to cut a single mold and cast it twice than it is to produce two molds and cast them once each. It's cheaper by such a hilarious margin that the idea they suddenly decided to drop the practice of producing a single sprue and casting it twice for the Ogryn gang is utterly ridiculous.

The economics dictate what we can expect to see.

Which will be two copies of a single sprue. That means an even number of Ogryns. Likely 4.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 22:14:52


Post by: beast_gts


Looking at the NZ GW site, the Goliath Stimmers and Forge-born box has no options -

This kit is supplied as 112 components that make 2 Goliath Stimmers, one armed with paired pulverizers and one armed with assault grenade launchers, and 4 Goliath Forge-born, two armed with storm-welders and two armed with heavy rock saws. It comes supplied with 2 Necromunda 40mm bases and 4 Necromunda 25mm bases.


Spoiler:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
House of Chains contents page (if you can read it!) -

Spoiler:


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 22:27:47


Post by: Albertorius


Oh, turns out it has precisely what I thought it would, for the reasons mentioned on the ogryn sprues.

Yay -_-


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 23:11:30


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Further evidence Stimmers and Forgeborn aren’t replacing owt.

And don’t worry lads, it’s nowt a Webber can’t handle..........

[Thumb - FB569549-A75A-4E0E-A3A3-B2B8FD76DF4D.jpeg]


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/14 23:15:34


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Absolutely zero options.

Welcome to Necromunda: Warcry Edition.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 00:31:37


Post by: Sqorgar


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Absolutely zero options.

Welcome to Necromunda: Warcry Edition.
The options will likely be provided by ForgeWorld resin at about three times the price anybody would want to pay for them, and out of stock every time you consider ordering them. Welcome to Necromunda.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 00:44:45


Post by: Chopstick


The description is wrong, typical clueless webstore staffs, You get one option for each.

Still kinda meh, if they have this little amount of option, probably should be something cool, like electrocution fists.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 00:57:11


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


And so having been proved wrong that Champions, Juves and Brutes were being removed, here we see the serial whiners shift target to continue their cacophony.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 01:05:41


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And so having been proved wrong that Champions, Juves and Brutes were being removed, here we see the serial whiners shift target to continue their cacophony.
They just put up a pre-order for a new completely mono-pose optionless kit. This is the antithesis of Necromunda.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 01:52:43


Post by: Starfarer


Oh really? Like how Necromunda started with all those multi-pose metal kits?

Oh wait, that's complete bs. Aside from a single, hard to find, generic weapons sprue, Necromunda was single pose models for a decade, requiring players to heavily convert everything.

Only in the early '00's did we get a handful of arm/weapons options in kits.

Now, over 25 years on, were getting more options, multi-pose, plastic kits, and only special characters, and a few bespoke items like guilders are single pose models.

If you can't manage to do a few simple kitbashes after that many years in the hobby, that's no one's fault but your own.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 02:40:42


Post by: Yodhrin


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And so having been proved wrong that Champions, Juves and Brutes were being removed, here we see the serial whiners shift target to continue their cacophony.


"Proved wrong" implies people were arguing they would be replacing existing options, when what people were actually saying was they were worried existing options would be replaced and thought that would be a bad thing, at which point the GW Volunteer Defence Force decided to start arguing that anyone who wants to keep using Juves was an unreasonable nostalgic mentally trapped in 1995. Come off it eh.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 04:22:47


Post by: ekwatts


 Yodhrin wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And so having been proved wrong that Champions, Juves and Brutes were being removed, here we see the serial whiners shift target to continue their cacophony.


"Proved wrong" implies people were arguing they would be replacing existing options, when what people were actually saying was they were worried existing options would be replaced and thought that would be a bad thing, at which point the GW Volunteer Defence Force decided to start arguing that anyone who wants to keep using Juves was an unreasonable nostalgic mentally trapped in 1995. Come off it eh.


You're right, both sides were entirely correct.

Some people live to complain.

And this is entirely subjective, of course, but being an old timer myself I can say this without hesitation: Necromunda in 2020 is absolutely in an infinitely better place than old Necromunda was in any year, with literally years more support (and potential surprises like the Ogryn gang) lined up and set in stone.

Not every aspect of it is going to fit into how you might have wanted it to look. That's called "life". I genuinely worry about those whose first instinct is to desperately scrabble for something to complain about when something new comes out for their hobby in terms of how they deal with the world inevitably not aligning to their weirdly specific expectations in any other aspect of life... if you get this upset over Necromunda, how do you deal with taxes, or relationships, or poorly thought out cycle lanes? Are you perpetually upset?

Chill out.

And I'm gonna go out on a limb here and repeat that the Ogryn box is a repeated sprue of two bodies for a total of four ogryns because there is zero evidence to suggest GW literally completely changed the way they produce Neceomunda kits as of a planned Ogryn gang release.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 06:05:37


Post by: schoon


I really like the models, and it looks like some customization should be a cinch.

However, I'm curious what add-ons they'll do for bosses...


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 06:35:44


Post by: Altruizine


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Further evidence Stimmers and Forgeborn aren’t replacing owt.

And don’t worry lads, it’s nowt a Webber can’t handle..........

Looks, like they're doing some comprehensive renaming, though? So people might *actually* lose access to any fighter called a "juve" after all

That blurry table of contents looks like:

Forge Tyrant
Forge Boss
Stimmer
Forge-born
Bruiser
Bully (regular juve!)


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 06:40:04


Post by: jeff white


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And so having been proved wrong that Champions, Juves and Brutes were being removed, here we see the serial whiners shift target to continue their cacophony.
They just put up a pre-order for a new completely mono-pose optionless kit. This is the antithesis of Necromunda.


This is so right. Sure the OG goliath were converible plastic snd being a bit static could use some converting. And other gangs were metal. But options for weapons swaps snd bits were everywhere. We could mail order them direct ftom GerDubs!

The advantage with better plastics could be this these options were built in ... but GeeDubs went the other direction and now aims to make metal models out of plastic instead... progress.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 07:13:27


Post by: Chopstick


 jeff white wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And so having been proved wrong that Champions, Juves and Brutes were being removed, here we see the serial whiners shift target to continue their cacophony.
They just put up a pre-order for a new completely mono-pose optionless kit. This is the antithesis of Necromunda.


This is so right. Sure the OG goliath were converible plastic snd being a bit static could use some converting. And other gangs were metal. But options for weapons swaps snd bits were everywhere. We could mail order them direct ftom GerDubs!

The advantage with better plastics could be this these options were built in ... but GeeDubs went the other direction and now aims to make metal models out of plastic instead... progress.


The weapon pack for Goliath were released about a year ago, you can order them from Forgeworld. They also have extra heads over there.

For the new fighter, it's clear they were designed for future weapon pack expansion, but you will have to wait, because the team(FW) is small and they're kinda slow.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 09:00:28


Post by: Agamemnon2


Modern GW is doing away with multi-pose models and customizeability across their entire range, crying over some mythical heady days of old is fun, but ultimately fruitless.

Besides, at least modern monopose models are plastic instead of metal, so you don't have to break out the dremel and the cutting wheel out for every single little thing.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 09:09:59


Post by: Albertorius


Honestly, I'm not even mad. The minis look cool after all. It's just that I see diminishing returns with every expansion, and added completixy for a game that t doesn't need it, at least not on the parts it is being added.

Rather than house codexes I would have preferred them to spend their time making a "big ol' book of campaigns", maybe with additional hired Guns and the like, because that's the part of Necromunda that interest me. Gang creation is already ok as it is, IMHO, and I feel we would have been better off if the options of these newfangled gangers were added to the regular juves and brutes. But here we are.

Of course, this is also a new era of "print your own stuff" and Patreon designers, so... It's not like it matters much, in the end.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 10:06:55


Post by: beast_gts


The Slavers are cheaper than I was expecting


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 10:10:58


Post by: zedmeister


He’s an ugly fella



Nice model though!


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 10:44:57


Post by: endlesswaltz123


Wow.... It's basically Bane... Arkham Asylum games Bane specifically...

Someone will surely convert to include a lute libra mask.

Genuinely so good, the Slave guild guys are great also.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait wait wait, is that a facemark hanging from his face also?

Fair play forge world, you knew what you wanted to do and you did it. I have high hopes for proper arbiters at some point now, it could be peak Judge Dredd.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 11:12:19


Post by: Mr_Rose


That left shoulder looks nasty. Like the added muscle grafts have started to tear off but he’s so ‘roided out that he hasn’t noticed.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 11:39:56


Post by: Ancient Otter


The House of Chains description mentions a d66 Goliath Tactics table - is it foolish of me to assume that I could refer to this rather than buying the pack of 2nd Edition Goliath Tactics cards?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 12:33:06


Post by: zamerion


What do you think of my theory?

Ogryn was a generic brute that all gangs can hire. It hasnt had a resin miniature and now has a gang of his own with plastic models.

Maybe this happens with other miniatures in the game that have rules and have not yet come out in resin even though they are used a lot? For example a gang of doctors or explorers (ratskins) with each new book ?

this would justify because they have not yet release in resin..


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 12:33:41


Post by: Graphite


Oh Gork please give us D66 tactic tables. D100. D1000! Just not more flipping cardboard.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 12:37:52


Post by: jeff white


 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Modern GW is doing away with multi-pose models and customizeability across their entire range, crying over some mythical heady days of old is fun, but ultimately fruitless.

Besides, at least modern monopose models are plastic instead of metal, so you don't have to break out the dremel and the cutting wheel out for every single little thing.


Yeah, I appreciate that fact about plastic.

I am only pointing to what might be lost potential.
Multipart multipose customizable without cutting was cool, for rank and file if you feel like all the assembly work.
I still have unassemble IG in a baggie...

For a game wit heavy RPG elements like Necromunda,
it just seems like one way to go, to provide this sort of developmentability right out of the box(es)
without a knife at all.

The Forgeworld stuff is cool.



Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 12:40:57


Post by: changemod


zamerion wrote:
What do you think of my theory?

Ogryn was a generic brute that all gangs can hire. It hasnt had a resin miniature and now has a gang of his own with plastic models.

Maybe this happens with other miniatures in the game that have rules and have not yet come out in resin even though they are used a lot? For example a gang of doctors or explores (ratskins) with each new book ?

this would justify because they have not yet release in resin..


I just wanna know when they’re doing Klovis and his Redemptionists.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 12:45:11


Post by: Shadox


changemod wrote:
zamerion wrote:
What do you think of my theory?

Ogryn was a generic brute that all gangs can hire. It hasnt had a resin miniature and now has a gang of his own with plastic models.

Maybe this happens with other miniatures in the game that have rules and have not yet come out in resin even though they are used a lot? For example a gang of doctors or explores (ratskins) with each new book ?

this would justify because they have not yet release in resin..


I just wanna know when they’re doing Klovis and his Redemptionists.


With the Cawdor book propably.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 13:15:51


Post by: Agamemnon2


Redemptionists + Cawdor would make a lot of sense. Do Escher, Van Saar or Delaque have anyone they could thematically show up with, I wonder? Scalies and Ratskins wouldn't really make sense.

Oh, and Orlocks also exist don't they. I'd forgotten.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 13:20:52


Post by: lord_blackfang


How can the new Goliath sprue be optionless?

The description says something like "Two dudes A, one with weapon 1 and one with weapon 2." But dude A is one to a sprue, you get two identical sprues, so you get two weapons 1 and two weapons 2. This is the case for every model in the box. Every single body in there has the option of two loadouts. And the picture also shows all 6 dudes with different heads.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 14:10:49


Post by: Albertorius


Yeah, you can assemble them as "guy A" or as "guy B". Nothing else, though, no different weapons, no other options. I'm assuming they won't have any other options regardless.

So very 40k, but this was Necromunda.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 14:30:30


Post by: Baxx


Here are some of the new content:
- Hangers-on: Brute-handler, Chem Dealer, Pit Trainer
- Special Characters
- Weapons & Equipment
- Champion 'Stimmer' & Juve 'Prospect Forge-born' fighter classes (existing fighter classes will get similar titles)
- 'Muscle' Skill category (6 skills)
- Slave Ogryn gang
- Terrain rules
- Sub-plots
- House Favours
- Alliances

I'm suspecting this will be the 'blue-print' for the remaining 5 house books.
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And so having been proved wrong that Champions, Juves and Brutes were being removed, here we see the serial whiners shift target to continue their cacophony.

I never said it was being replaced! Terminators are still a thing, even though you can get dual wielding power fist baby dreadnoughts with heavy-botlers mounted to each fist. It's layers in layers, rule bloat & power creep. Adding a new top killer doesn't add anything, because the previous top dog is now demoted. Nobody asked for this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Albertorius wrote:
Yeah, you can assemble them as "guy A" or as "guy B". Nothing else, though, no different weapons, no other options. I'm assuming they won't have any other options regardless.

So very 40k, but this was Necromunda.

If you really want options, you can use the new stimmers as regular original champions. Then you can give them a kroot rifle and a cursed chaos knife if you so wish.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 14:38:48


Post by: Chopstick


Every new content is a rule bloat, and probably power creep too.

What's left that is mildly acceptable is one an done new gang, and possibly 300+ credit bounty hunter, or bounty hunter that already exist in previous book. New bounty hunter /hanger on can also be power creep too. Some BH clearly are better than the other.

Even new gang can be power creep.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 14:41:56


Post by: GaroRobe


Not big on the Bane-zerker model. A bit lower quality than past FW Necro models. Looks more like something that you'd see them make for FW. Maybe with a different head and swapping out that weird left arm of his would help.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 14:57:57


Post by: Chopstick


GaroRobe wrote:
Not big on the Bane-zerker model. A bit lower quality than past FW Necro models. Looks more like something that you'd see them make for FW. Maybe with a different head and swapping out that weird left arm of his would help.


He look fine and terrifying in the original art, artist clearly want him to look like the Dante abomination from League of extraordinary gentlemen
Spoiler:


But instead what we get is the Hunchback of Notre Dame


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 14:58:22


Post by: N3p3nth3


 ekwatts wrote:
Every single Necromunda plastic box so far has been one sprue replicated. Every single box.* It is cheaper to cut a single mold and cast it twice than it is to produce two molds and cast them once each. It's cheaper by such a hilarious margin that the idea they suddenly decided to drop the practice of producing a single sprue and casting it twice for the Ogryn gang is utterly ridiculous.

The economics dictate what we can expect to see.

Which will be two copies of a single sprue. That means an even number of Ogryns. Likely 4.

*Please note that "every single box" does not include Kal Jericho.

It's obviously going to be four, though.

Terrible paintjob on the Zerker, btw. Mini looks just fine, but Goliaths are the only gang I'm not buying into (did get the alligator for my long-term squat gang project, but nm).

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Redemptionists + Cawdor would make a lot of sense. Do Escher, Van Saar or Delaque have anyone they could thematically show up with, I wonder? Scalies and Ratskins wouldn't really make sense.

Oh, and Orlocks also exist don't they. I'd forgotten.

If they are going for the visual tie-in, Escher are going to be corpse guild, due to the amazon priestess style guild representative. Thematically the fire dudes would make sense, too.

Edit: Right, gang-wise. Brat gangs with Escher.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 15:16:24


Post by: Baxx


Chopstick wrote:
Every new content is a rule bloat, and probably power creep too.

What's left that is mildly acceptable is one an done new gang, and possibly 300+ credit bounty hunter, or bounty hunter that already exist in previous book. New bounty hunter /hanger on can also be power creep too. Some BH clearly are better than the other.

Even new gang can be power creep.

This is sarcastic?

This is what old and new Goliath Champion look like:

Is the new one bigger? More deadlier?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 15:27:30


Post by: Prestor Jon


 Albertorius wrote:
Yeah, you can assemble them as "guy A" or as "guy B". Nothing else, though, no different weapons, no other options. I'm assuming they won't have any other options regardless.

So very 40k, but this was Necromunda.


What are you trying to say with this comment? Necromunda kits have never come with many options. The original metal gang models were single piece monopose figures with the only options being which weapons you glued onto their arms and the weapon options were very limited. Later when they released plastic kits they didn’t come with any greater variety. The plastic Orlocks, for example, were monopose single piece bodies with heads they had one model that was for rifles and you could choose either lasrifle, auto rifle or shotgun that was molded onto the right arm already with the left on the stock so the gun was literally the only difference in how the model looked. The other pose came with a knife already in the left hand with the only option being the right arms that had 3 versions with the only difference being holding a stub revolver, auto pistol or las pistol. The Newcromunda kits have just as much of not more variety and options as the Oldcrumunda kits.
The only comparison I can think of that would rate the Oldcrumunda kits better than 40k kits would be the metal gang boxes vs the metal IG boxes like Steel Legion. Even then it’s not very apt because the 6 IG troopers are always only going to have lasguns and Oldcrumunda heavies didn’t come with options and neither did metal IG heavy weapon teams. The only optionality that was better was that the IG specialist and sgt had no options.
I don’t understand the bitterness and negativity directed at Newcrumunda kits for not having more options. Sure GW could leverage their technology to make the kits even better but why compare the kits to the standard of using the utmost potential of the kits instead of comparing them to the standard of past kits for the game.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 15:51:06


Post by: Albertorius


Prestor Jon wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
Yeah, you can assemble them as "guy A" or as "guy B". Nothing else, though, no different weapons, no other options. I'm assuming they won't have any other options regardless.

So very 40k, but this was Necromunda.


What are you trying to say with this comment? Necromunda kits have never come with many options. The original metal gang models were single piece monopose figures with the only options being which weapons you glued onto their arms and the weapon options were very limited. Later when they released plastic kits they didn’t come with any greater variety. The plastic Orlocks, for example, were monopose single piece bodies with heads they had one model that was for rifles and you could choose either lasrifle, auto rifle or shotgun that was molded onto the right arm already with the left on the stock so the gun was literally the only difference in how the model looked. The other pose came with a knife already in the left hand with the only option being the right arms that had 3 versions with the only difference being holding a stub revolver, auto pistol or las pistol. The Newcromunda kits have just as much of not more variety and options as the Oldcrumunda kits.
The only comparison I can think of that would rate the Oldcrumunda kits better than 40k kits would be the metal gang boxes vs the metal IG boxes like Steel Legion. Even then it’s not very apt because the 6 IG troopers are always only going to have lasguns and Oldcrumunda heavies didn’t come with options and neither did metal IG heavy weapon teams. The only optionality that was better was that the IG specialist and sgt had no options.
I don’t understand the bitterness and negativity directed at Newcrumunda kits for not having more options. Sure GW could leverage their technology to make the kits even better but why compare the kits to the standard of using the utmost potential of the kits instead of comparing them to the standard of past kits for the game.


Honestly, the current boxes are also disappointing, and I've said as much repeatedly here and elsewhere. This is not a new issue, but it is doubling down on the bad we already had on Necromunda by... giving even less for the same.

The current boxes at least have a high amount of additional weapons that you can use (For example, the Escher sprue has 19 weapons), some right as is, some fiddling about a bit, some with hand changes. This one? Well, it has two weapons for the one big guy and two weapons for the two little guys, so... yeah, that's a whooping total of 6 options.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Baxx wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
Yeah, you can assemble them as "guy A" or as "guy B". Nothing else, though, no different weapons, no other options. I'm assuming they won't have any other options regardless.

So very 40k, but this was Necromunda.

If you really want options, you can use the new stimmers as regular original champions. Then you can give them a kroot rifle and a cursed chaos knife if you so wish.


I'm not too fond of their look, and eve if I was... aren't they like twice as big? A head taller and double as thick? I know Golios are kinda the orks of Necromunda, but I'd rather it not be quite that literal.

All in all, I still think it's funny that the best gang box is still (IMHO) the Neophyte hybrids box.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 16:55:51


Post by: Chopstick


Baxx wrote:

This is sarcastic?

This is what old and new Goliath Champion look like:

Is the new one bigger? More deadlier?


So? You suggest they made the new one weaker and more expensive? We didn't even get to know if this new kind of fighter value/stat ratio is, Will this be a value early buy, or a very expensive one for mid-late campaign when everyone is stuffed and big.

As I said, every new content will add more to the rule, thus bloating it, and some will be better than and make old one obsolete, thus power creep.

I think your problem is that thing you like = pass, and things you don't like = lame/bloat/power creep... etc What exactly new stuff that they can add that isn't consider bloat or power creep? and how long can they keep doing this same thing?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 17:28:46


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


I'm surprised how quick those FW guys are showing up. Thought it'd be a bit later than this.

Plus there's always the Artel W's option if you don't like the FW zerker...



What irritates me is I just made an order with them last week and if I'd known they were releasing these so soon I could've saved a bit on shipping!


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 18:18:31


Post by: ekwatts


The new Necromunda boxes are not disappointing.

They have options, they're plastic/easily converted, they're decent value for money (when compared to similar companies' skirmish games, for example), they're stylish, theyre readily available.

These things are all subjective. But I just feel like rejecting the majority of these aspects means that you don't... really... like Necromunda very much?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 19:09:37


Post by: Albertorius


 ekwatts wrote:
The new Necromunda boxes are not disappointing.

They obviously aren't. For you. Funny, people having different opinions... Blows the mind.

 ekwatts wrote:
These things are all subjective. But I just feel like rejecting the majority of these aspects means that you don't... really... like Necromunda very much?

Of course! It stands to reason, if you don't like anything and everything of something, you obviously don't like that something very much. It is the only single reasonable explanation, after all, amirite?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 19:11:57


Post by: Voss


 zedmeister wrote:
He’s an ugly fella



Nice model though!


It... isn't really. The FW Goliath is weirdly soft and fuzzy on the details.
The guy with the halberd and the other Slavers aren't awful, but I'm really underwhelmed by comparison to the plastics.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 19:12:39


Post by: Albertorius


 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I'm surprised how quick those FW guys are showing up. Thought it'd be a bit later than this.

Plus there's always the Artel W's option if you don't like the FW zerker...



What irritates me is I just made an order with them last week and if I'd known they were releasing these so soon I could've saved a bit on shipping!


Well, I have two that I can use already ^^



Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 19:44:38


Post by: Altruizine


 ekwatts wrote:
The new Necromunda boxes are not disappointing.

They have options, they're plastic/easily converted, they're decent value for money (when compared to similar companies' skirmish games, for example), they're stylish, theyre readily available.

These things are all subjective. But I just feel like rejecting the majority of these aspects means that you don't... really... like Necromunda very much?

Yeah, when I see people saying stuff like "old Necromunda models had more options" I can't help but immediately slip into accusatory/dismissive mode. Those are LIES. It makes it sound like those people never played old Necromunda, don't play new Necromunda, and are just bad sport trolls looking to transpose their (sometimes legitimate) problems with other elements of the GW brand onto this system, at any cost (including sheer dishonesty).

I played Van Saar in the old era (but after the system was OOP). Doing something as simple as a lasgun-to-shotgun conversion was excruciating. It required heavy duty snips that could cut metal, a dremel to open up space on a model, pinning, the abysmal process of gluing plastic parts to metal parts, and then final green stuff work to cover gaps and seams. The replacement parts you could select from elsewhere in the GW range were extremely limited (there were fewer plastic kits around then, and ebay bits sellers were much rarer). And then even after the legwork of acquiring the parts and the brutal effort of putting the conversion together, all your conversions looked extremely "monopose" anyway, because of the super limited total number of poses and the difficulty of recombining anything (eg. if you wanted to do a torso/leg swap it would require sawing, dremeling, pinning and green stuff).

The new kits are way easier to work with. There are hundreds of plastic weapon replacements available from other kits, thousands of decorative/accessory bits to choose from, and even whole sets of body parts to recombine (like, I dunno, putting Tempestus Scion torsos on Van Saar legs, Skitarii heads on Escher bodies, or whatever other mad science you can imagine). The total amount of in-game equipment to choose from in the new system dwarfs what was available in the old system by dozens (if not 100+ by now) of items.

All of my new gangs contain beautiful, seamless conversions the likes of which would have been impossible in any previous era of Necromunda.

The fact that a new kit is released without MODELING options (we still don't know whether Stimmers and Forge-born will be locked out of House Equipment lists and the Trading Post in-campaign) does nothing to diminish the fact that Necromunda is currently more customizable -- both in terms of actual options and the ease of achieving them -- than it has ever been at any point in history.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 20:00:12


Post by: Albertorius


 Altruizine wrote:
 ekwatts wrote:
The new Necromunda boxes are not disappointing.

They have options, they're plastic/easily converted, they're decent value for money (when compared to similar companies' skirmish games, for example), they're stylish, theyre readily available.

These things are all subjective. But I just feel like rejecting the majority of these aspects means that you don't... really... like Necromunda very much?

Yeah, when I see people saying stuff like "old Necromunda models had more options" I can't help but immediately slip into accusatory/dismissive mode. Those are LIES. It makes it sound like those people never played old Necromunda, don't play new Necromunda, and are just bad sport trolls looking to transpose their (sometimes legitimate) problems with other elements of the GW brand onto this system, at any cost (including sheer dishonesty).

Yeah, so I'm confused now. I haven't seen anyone saying such thing? OTOH, it is true that the older metals had more poses than the current plastics, and there were some pretty decent weapon sprues (metal, of course) very readily available...


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 20:03:23


Post by: Voss


 Altruizine wrote:
 ekwatts wrote:
The new Necromunda boxes are not disappointing.

They have options, they're plastic/easily converted, they're decent value for money (when compared to similar companies' skirmish games, for example), they're stylish, theyre readily available.

These things are all subjective. But I just feel like rejecting the majority of these aspects means that you don't... really... like Necromunda very much?

Yeah, when I see people saying stuff like "old Necromunda models had more options" I can't help but immediately slip into accusatory/dismissive mode. Those are LIES.


Er, what? All the gangs in Old Necromunda had access to pretty much every weapon in the 40k armory.
By default, these seem to have limited access to a set of weird little tinker toys that aren't part of the 40k universe.

When I think of 'which have more options' it isn't the Dark City cultists who mostly only use Solid Snake's SMGs and sniper rifles.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 20:05:16


Post by: Agamemnon2


 Altruizine wrote:

All of my new gangs contain beautiful, seamless conversions the likes of which would have been impossible in any previous era of Necromunda.

Well put. As someone who's fascinated by the history of things, I actually though about writing a long forum post about lost conversions, i.e. the kind of stuff nobody does anymore. Like, remember when turning Chaos Warriors into truescale Space Marines was a popular build? Heck, remember people building truescale marine armies, period? Or extensive and labor-intensive pre-heresy armies where every unit was handmade, with grav-rhinos and Mk IV dreadnoughts. Entire modelling disciplines have gone out of fashion. Dremels used to be much more popular and talked-about in the hobby, but they're mostly overkill for plastic so almost nobody uses them anymore, either.

I didn't write that forum post because I figured that other than me, nobody cared about minutiae like this. Point being, the modern 40k universe is, for all of its regrettable modern aesthetics and flaws, far better for converters than the "golden age" of the 90s ever was.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 20:07:29


Post by: beast_gts


 Albertorius wrote:
 Altruizine wrote:
 ekwatts wrote:
The new Necromunda boxes are not disappointing.

They have options, they're plastic/easily converted, they're decent value for money (when compared to similar companies' skirmish games, for example), they're stylish, theyre readily available.

These things are all subjective. But I just feel like rejecting the majority of these aspects means that you don't... really... like Necromunda very much?

Yeah, when I see people saying stuff like "old Necromunda models had more options" I can't help but immediately slip into accusatory/dismissive mode. Those are LIES. It makes it sound like those people never played old Necromunda, don't play new Necromunda, and are just bad sport trolls looking to transpose their (sometimes legitimate) problems with other elements of the GW brand onto this system, at any cost (including sheer dishonesty).

Yeah, so I'm confused now. I haven't seen anyone saying such thing? OTOH, it is true that the older metals had more poses than the current plastics, and there were some pretty decent weapon sprues (metal, of course) very readily available...


It's true that the second generation / Fanatic gangs had more options than the original single-piece models, being (IIRC) mail-order only massively reduced their visibility (and some people still don't know they actually existed!) -

Spoiler:







Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 20:36:43


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


 Agamemnon2 wrote:

I didn't write that forum post because I figured that other than me, nobody cared about minutiae like this. Point being, the modern 40k universe is, for all of its regrettable modern aesthetics and flaws, far better for converters than the "golden age" of the 90s ever was.


You should totally write this. Some of us enjoy reading all that modeling minutiae.

But if you're going to do it, best make sure you've got all sorts of pretty photos to go along with it!


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 20:41:42


Post by: Baxx


Chopstick wrote:

So? You suggest they made the new one weaker and more expensive? We didn't even get to know if this new kind of fighter value/stat ratio is, Will this be a value early buy, or a very expensive one for mid-late campaign when everyone is stuffed and big.

As I said, every new content will add more to the rule, thus bloating it, and some will be better than and make old one obsolete, thus power creep.

I think your problem is that thing you like = pass, and things you don't like = lame/bloat/power creep... etc What exactly new stuff that they can add that isn't consider bloat or power creep? and how long can they keep doing this same thing?

I suggest they didn't add more fighter classes at all. We don't need a new super killer. That's what the old were! We didn't need an early or mid-campaign buy, we already have multiple existing options for that. Sure every new content will add more, that's not what I mean by rules bloat. When GW1 added Juves to Escher & Goliath, I didn't claim it was rules bloat. When Brutes were added, I didn't claim that was power creep. But when they add a dual-wielding chain axe champion as a new class, that's not really new. It's a bigger and deadlier version of what we already got. Nobody asked for that.

There are many things I don't like which aren't bloat or power creep. If the new dual wielding grenade launcher super champion isn't a prime example of power creep, what is?
 Altruizine wrote:

The fact that a new kit is released without MODELING options (we still don't know whether Stimmers and Forge-born will be locked out of House Equipment lists and the Trading Post in-campaign) does nothing to diminish the fact that Necromunda is currently more customizable -- both in terms of actual options and the ease of achieving them -- than it has ever been at any point in history.

Yeah, it's an insane amount of customization today, and we are just about to receive a lot more.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 20:54:09


Post by: Altruizine


 Albertorius wrote:
 Altruizine wrote:
 ekwatts wrote:
The new Necromunda boxes are not disappointing.

They have options, they're plastic/easily converted, they're decent value for money (when compared to similar companies' skirmish games, for example), they're stylish, theyre readily available.

These things are all subjective. But I just feel like rejecting the majority of these aspects means that you don't... really... like Necromunda very much?

Yeah, when I see people saying stuff like "old Necromunda models had more options" I can't help but immediately slip into accusatory/dismissive mode. Those are LIES. It makes it sound like those people never played old Necromunda, don't play new Necromunda, and are just bad sport trolls looking to transpose their (sometimes legitimate) problems with other elements of the GW brand onto this system, at any cost (including sheer dishonesty).

Yeah, so I'm confused now. I haven't seen anyone saying such thing? OTOH, it is true that the older metals had more poses than the current plastics, and there were some pretty decent weapon sprues (metal, of course) very readily available...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They just put up a pre-order for a new completely mono-pose optionless kit. This is the antithesis of Necromunda.

 jeff white wrote:

This is so right. Sure the OG goliath were converible plastic snd being a bit static could use some converting. And other gangs were metal. But options for weapons swaps snd bits were everywhere. We could mail order them direct ftom GerDubs!

 Albertorius wrote:
Yeah, you can assemble them as "guy A" or as "guy B". Nothing else, though, no different weapons, no other options. I'm assuming they won't have any other options regardless.

So very 40k, but this was Necromunda.


^Are the examples I was referring to.

Voss wrote:
 Altruizine wrote:

Yeah, when I see people saying stuff like "old Necromunda models had more options" I can't help but immediately slip into accusatory/dismissive mode. Those are LIES.


Er, what? All the gangs in Old Necromunda had access to pretty much every weapon in the 40k armory.
By default, these seem to have limited access to a set of weird little tinker toys that aren't part of the 40k universe.

When I think of 'which have more options' it isn't the Dark City cultists who mostly only use Solid Snake's SMGs and sniper rifles.

So, I literally do not understand how you can believe this is true.

The new Trading Post and it's expansions include more weapons and equipment options than were ever available previously. This still covers "almost every weapon in the 40k armoury" (and now includes new weapons that hadn't been imagined when old Necromunda was created, like melta pistols, grav weaponry, etc.).

These items are currently available to all gangs (+/- Enforcers, depending on your group's interpretation of the FAQ)

beast_gts wrote:


It's true that the second generation / Fanatic gangs had more options than the original single-piece models, being (IIRC) mail-order only massively reduced their visibility (and some people still don't know they actually existed!) -

Spoiler:






Disclaimer: I never indulged in these, never saw them in the wild, and constantly forget they ever existed.

That said, is it fair to compare breadth of options while including a 2nd gen rerelease? That arrived, iirc, 5-10 years after the original gang? Nope!

And even with the supplemental Fanatic releases, all the conversion difficulties remain. Most of those figs have a "hard modelled" weapon included that will need to be cut off and replaced or repaired. Like, do you really always want your grenade launcher ganger to also have a stub gun?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
 Agamemnon2 wrote:

I didn't write that forum post because I figured that other than me, nobody cared about minutiae like this. Point being, the modern 40k universe is, for all of its regrettable modern aesthetics and flaws, far better for converters than the "golden age" of the 90s ever was.


You should totally write this. Some of us enjoy reading all that modeling minutiae.

But if you're going to do it, best make sure you've got all sorts of pretty photos to go along with it!

+1! I'd also love to see that sort of article. It should probably come with a trigger warning for convertor's PTSD, though.

Baxx wrote:

Yeah, it's an insane amount of customization today, and we are just about to receive a lot more.

I'm way more sympathetic to this flavour of generalized disgruntlement than I am to what I consider dishonest objections involving what Necromunda "used to be" versus what it is now.

The sheer amount of crap the new system has thrown out there is pretty overwhelming. I love it, though. I love knowing I could conceivably play this game for 10+ years and experience things I haven't seen before.

Am I wrong, or were you heavily involved in the legacy edition NCE community stuff? If that's the case I can understand why you hate going from a tightly bounded, closed system to a living game that is continually mutating like a cavalier 'zerker who jabbed the wrong syringe into his neck. But I find it exciting. The more stuff they put out there the longer lifespan this game gets.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 21:10:15


Post by: Albertorius


I personally used heavily the original weapons sprues from 1e:




With that and the fact that there were actually more poses than the current plastics, I had more than enough to field everything I ever needed. I did also use a lot of the older IG metal range and some Chaos, though, plus an insane amount of the plastic Catachans and some plastic bolters.

Some of the current plastics are more easily cut, but the actual options on them are more pidgeon holed. The ones in the new Goliath box are even more so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Baxx wrote:
Chopstick wrote:

So? You suggest they made the new one weaker and more expensive? We didn't even get to know if this new kind of fighter value/stat ratio is, Will this be a value early buy, or a very expensive one for mid-late campaign when everyone is stuffed and big.

As I said, every new content will add more to the rule, thus bloating it, and some will be better than and make old one obsolete, thus power creep.

I think your problem is that thing you like = pass, and things you don't like = lame/bloat/power creep... etc What exactly new stuff that they can add that isn't consider bloat or power creep? and how long can they keep doing this same thing?

I suggest they didn't add more fighter classes at all. We don't need a new super killer. That's what the old were! We didn't need an early or mid-campaign buy, we already have multiple existing options for that. Sure every new content will add more, that's not what I mean by rules bloat. When GW1 added Juves to Escher & Goliath, I didn't claim it was rules bloat. When Brutes were added, I didn't claim that was power creep. But when they add a dual-wielding chain axe champion as a new class, that's not really new. It's a bigger and deadlier version of what we already got. Nobody asked for that.

Yep. I feel the same for the new not-juves. I'n not sure why these aren't simply additional weapon options for juves, or why regular gangers (or well, maybe specials) can't have them...

Change the term "juves" for "prospects" if it's too charged a word for the current climate and be done with it.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 21:19:38


Post by: Voss


So, I literally do not understand how you can believe this is true.

Why wouldn't I? I don't care what's theoretically possible in the 'trading post'- the model kits I've seen are just a handful of wacky gang-specific weapons, repeated on duplicate sprues to bring the gangs up to 10 or so models. The new goliaths and the starter box enforcers bring it to a couple more options for those specific gangs.

I 'believe it to be true' because its literally all GW presents to me about the game- monopose models and a handful of gang-specific weapons on doubled sprues.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 21:38:44


Post by: Altruizine


 Albertorius wrote:
I personally used heavily the original weapons sprues from 1e:

Spoiler:



With that and the fact that there were actually more poses than the current plastics, I had more than enough to field everything I ever needed. I did also use a lot of the older IG metal range and some Chaos, though, plus an insane amount of the plastic Catachans and some plastic bolters.

Some of the current plastics are more easily cut, but the actual options on them are more pidgeon holed. The ones in the new Goliath box are even more so.


I purchased these and never used them. The reason? None of the weapons have hands moulded on them. You had to either cut the grip off the weapon, cut the weapon off a model's hand, and affix the two (probably with a pin) OR you had to just whack the weapon on the back or hip of the model with a dollop of glue (a look I personally despise for it's unrealism).

Both of those solutions still exist with the new kits! And they're even easier to pull off, because you're attaching plastic to plastic, instead of metal to metal. Plus, there are hundreds more bits to select from. The only difference is that you can't mail order a single product code that comes with a variety of options (although you sort of still can do that, if you want to deal with ForgeWorld).

Voss wrote:
So, I literally do not understand how you can believe this is true.

Why wouldn't I? I don't care what's theoretically possible in the 'trading post'- the model kits I've seen are just a handful of wacky gang-specific weapons, repeated on duplicate sprues to bring the gangs up to 10 or so models. The new goliaths and the starter box enforcers bring it to a couple more options for those specific gangs.

I 'believe it to be true' because its literally all GW presents to me about the game- monopose models and a handful of gang-specific weapons on doubled sprues.

So you're saying you don't want to deal with the effort/cost of converting.

I'm tempted to try pulling up the ads for the old, original gangs and actually comparing/counting, weapon-for-weapon, how they stack up against the new kits. Let's see if it's actually as stark as some people would have it.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/15 21:47:58


Post by: Albertorius


 Altruizine wrote:
I purchased these and never used them. The reason? None of the weapons have hands moulded on them. You had to either cut the grip off the weapon, cut the weapon off a model's hand, and affix the two (probably with a pin) OR you had to just whack the weapon on the back or hip of the model with a dollop of glue (a look I personally despise for it's unrealism).

Both of those solutions still exist with the new kits! And they're even easier to pull off, because you're attaching plastic to plastic, instead of metal to metal. Plus, there are hundreds more bits to select from. The only difference is that you can't mail order a single product code that comes with a variety of options (although you sort of still can do that, if you want to deal with ForgeWorld).

Heh, not really. Now I have a resin printer and I make my own
The poses of the actual minis in the boxes are significantly lower in comparison, though.

By the by, if anyone knows about good 3d files designers/Patreons for Notcromunda minis, I'm totally in the market.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/16 01:36:47


Post by: Chairman Aeon


 Albertorius wrote:
I personally used heavily the original weapons sprues from 1e:

I still have one of those "sprues". The detail was very soft even compared to the stuff on the metal figs...

 Albertorius wrote:
With that and the fact that there were actually more poses than the current plastics, I had more than enough to field everything I ever needed. I did also use a lot of the older IG metal range and some Chaos, though, plus an insane amount of the plastic Catachans and some plastic bolters.

Which was really important because you were always sawing off the same weapons from the same figures to give then different ones--and they looked silly, lopsided and generally ropey.

 Albertorius wrote:
Some of the current plastics are more easily cut, but the actual options on them are more pidgeon holed. The ones in the new Goliath box are even more so.

Only of you are phoning it in. All of my Van Saar have arm and leg swaps and you aren't going to see it. I'm burins through a lot of Dark Eldar heads for that gang and kill team. Being plastic when I get to swapping some special and heavy weapons (assuming I don't order some Forge World or Shapeways stuff) I know I won't end up in emergency trying to carve off the old weapons. And back to the poseability, I have an extra body because i stole his legs for one of the girls and I'm pretty sure he'll make a great prone sniper. Sure it will take a bit of clipping and reassembly, but it will be a walk in the park, nay, the stuff of dreams compared to trying it in '98 with pewter. Easy cut = easy conversion. The only limit is your imagination...and available bits...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Albertorius wrote:
By the by, if anyone knows about good 3d files designers/Patreons for Notcromunda minis, I'm totally in the market.


There are some crazy awesome dudes on Shapeways, but they don't seem to let you buy the STLs. Sad, maddening...all of the above?


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/16 02:55:38


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Altruizine wrote:
Yeah, when I see people saying stuff like "old Necromunda models had more options" I can't help but immediately slip into accusatory/dismissive mode.
Well I never said that old Necromunda minis had more options. I said that removing options is the antithesis of Necromunda.

The Stimmer/Prospect sprue is a step backwards for Necromunda, as it removes customisation and options from something that just had it added in a major way (even moreso when you add in the FW weapons).


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/16 03:34:19


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


It’s likely there to force a choice between the new additions, and standard Juves/Champions.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/16 05:24:09


Post by: Altruizine


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Altruizine wrote:
Yeah, when I see people saying stuff like "old Necromunda models had more options" I can't help but immediately slip into accusatory/dismissive mode.
Well I never said that old Necromunda minis had more options. I said that removing options is the antithesis of Necromunda.

The Stimmer/Prospect sprue is a step backwards for Necromunda, as it removes customisation and options from something that just had it added in a major way (even moreso when you add in the FW weapons).

But no option is being removed from Necromunda.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/16 06:28:43


Post by: Pariah Press


Those Forge-Born look like they have good potential to be used as 40k civilian foundry/construction workers for Inq28 or similar gaming.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/16 08:02:49


Post by: Albertorius


 Chairman Aeon wrote:
I still have one of those "sprues". The detail was very soft even compared to the stuff on the metal figs...

Not in my experience, they were just about the same,,, and it stands to reason, given they were very easy to cast.

 Albertorius wrote:
With that and the fact that there were actually more poses than the current plastics, I had more than enough to field everything I ever needed. I did also use a lot of the older IG metal range and some Chaos, though, plus an insane amount of the plastic Catachans and some plastic bolters.

Which was really important because you were always sawing off the same weapons from the same figures to give then different ones--and they looked silly, lopsided and generally ropey.

Well, I guess they could, as long as you didn't know what you were doing...

 Albertorius wrote:
Some of the current plastics are more easily cut, but the actual options on them are more pidgeon holed. The ones in the new Goliath box are even more so.

Only of you are phoning it in. All of my Van Saar have arm and leg swaps and you aren't going to see it. I'm burins through a lot of Dark Eldar heads for that gang and kill team. Being plastic when I get to swapping some special and heavy weapons (assuming I don't order some Forge World or Shapeways stuff) I know I won't end up in emergency trying to carve off the old weapons. And back to the poseability, I have an extra body because i stole his legs for one of the girls and I'm pretty sure he'll make a great prone sniper. Sure it will take a bit of clipping and reassembly, but it will be a walk in the park, nay, the stuff of dreams compared to trying it in '98 with pewter. Easy cut = easy conversion. The only limit is your imagination...and available bits...

So, you're saying that the metals were impossible to make look good with swapping weapons and they only could look "silly, lopsided and generally ropey", but at the same time you're saying that the only way the new plastics will is if you're phoning it in. Right.

 Albertorius wrote:
By the by, if anyone knows about good 3d files designers/Patreons for Notcromunda minis, I'm totally in the market.


There are some crazy awesome dudes on Shapeways, but they don't seem to let you buy the STLs. Sad, maddening...all of the above?

Here, more straw, you seem to be running low there. Also I think I'm gonna put you on ignore, seeing as you don't really seem to want to discuss anything.

Still, if someone finds some of what I'm asking for, please let me know.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/16 10:18:58


Post by: N3p3nth3


The Forge Born look pretty jacked even next to the stimmers, wonder how the arms are going to size up with the regular Goliath arms. (ie. are they backdoor juves when combined with goliath arms)


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/16 12:56:15


Post by: Agamemnon2


 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
 Agamemnon2 wrote:

I didn't write that forum post because I figured that other than me, nobody cared about minutiae like this. Point being, the modern 40k universe is, for all of its regrettable modern aesthetics and flaws, far better for converters than the "golden age" of the 90s ever was.


You should totally write this. Some of us enjoy reading all that modeling minutiae.

But if you're going to do it, best make sure you've got all sorts of pretty photos to go along with it!


Well, there's the rub. Most of this stuff has vanished long ago. Old forums like Portent or Warseer have disintegrated, entire image hosting services have gone kaboom, etc. And not to be morbid, but people pass away and their armies get trashed. A lot of the, for lack of a better word, artifacts of modelling and conversion culture are getting harder to find, unless you happen to have a lot of back issues of White Dwarf and Citadel Journal (remember that one?) that did feature them on the regular.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/17 02:00:11


Post by: Yodhrin


N3p3nth3 wrote:
The Forge Born look pretty jacked even next to the stimmers, wonder how the arms are going to size up with the regular Goliath arms. (ie. are they backdoor juves when combined with goliath arms)


If they're not, possible alternatives will all be fantasy models given the paucity of the Guard range. Flagellants, maybe the Tzeentch-style marauders in the masks, maybe even Ungor arms(I don't know the newfangled names and don't care to learn 'em)? All will require a fair bit of putty work to tidy up the shoulder though.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/17 02:30:45


Post by: Zachectomy


Old necromunda never had much in the way of options. if you want to whine about loss of options, there's plenty of monopose 40k kits to moan about. multipart kits weren't a thing in necro until recently.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/17 06:42:33


Post by: JWBS


Yeah, complaining about lack of options in Necro kits seems pretty entitled at this point. The range is (comparatively) huge, frequently expanded, and am I mistaken or are all / most of the kits fairly well priced compared to most of the GW game ranges? I mean, I guess you could gripe about less poses if you want. Some kids cry when they get an Audi instead of a BMW for their birthday after all.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/17 06:58:54


Post by: Thargrim


I think after all six house gangs have their books the game will be in a pretty good place. Especially if each release sees the resin options filled out as well (stig shambler, spyker, van saar suit etc). The necromunda kits are also good value for money, not just in terms of plastic but how far a kit will take you in terms of gameplay. Some gangs are more optimal out of the box than others though. Hopefully any new Cawdor kit turns out good, the initial cawdor plastic kit was a bit limited in terms of options and ability to swap arms. Most of the models are very locked into a specific pose and armament.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/17 07:44:56


Post by: Yodhrin


 Thargrim wrote:
I think after all six house gangs have their books the game will be in a pretty good place. Especially if each release sees the resin options filled out as well (stig shambler, spyker, van saar suit etc). The necromunda kits are also good value for money, not just in terms of plastic but how far a kit will take you in terms of gameplay. Some gangs are more optimal out of the box than others though. Hopefully any new Cawdor kit turns out good, the initial cawdor plastic kit was a bit limited in terms of options and ability to swap arms. Most of the models are very locked into a specific pose and armament.


For Cawdor I'd quite like it if they quietly ignored the "men & women fight in separate gangs" thing and have their plastic release be the knockoff-Sororitas concept as some kind of (crudely)armoured bruiser/defensive unit.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/17 08:11:29


Post by: Albertorius


JWBS wrote:
Yeah, complaining about lack of options in Necro kits seems pretty entitled at this point. The range is (comparatively) huge, frequently expanded, and am I mistaken or are all / most of the kits fairly well priced compared to most of the GW game ranges? I mean, I guess you could gripe about less poses if you want. Some kids cry when they get an Audi instead of a BMW for their birthday after all.


The range might be "huge" at this point, but the actual tooling resources devoted to it, not so much: In the... year and a half?... that it's been released we've got sprues for eight gangs, a character pack and a brute, if I'm not mistaken, plus some assorted resin stuff.

In terms of sprues, though, each gang has been saddled with having a single sprue per gang, which... well, certainly imposes limits on what you can get away with, although I'm sure it's cheaper, particularly when compared with the double or triple-sprue regular 40k boxes.

I would say that, in terms of actual resources devoted to it, I feel like they've spent as many for the whole line as maybe for a single 40k/AoS army? Less, I expect, if you don't count the scenery sprues (as those can and will be certainly at least as useful for their other games).

It is certainly better than nothing at all, of course. I'm not sure anyone has said otherwise, no matter how much people try to misrepresent statements to ridicule the "other side".

By way of an actual example, let me take a look at the new SoB release, which by the way is still ongoing and people is pretty peeved off that they still don't have all they need to properly field them: They first got a limited run of monopose minis, which even though it's not really available anymore they had to make, and IIRC that was... three big sprues? I'm not sure. Then you have: Exorcist (two vehicle sprues), Junith Eruita (three character sprues), Hospitaller (two character sprues), Arco-Flagellants (one infantry sprue), Penitent Engines (three infantry sprues), Battle Sisters Squad (three infantry sprues), Retributor Squad (two infantry sprues) and The Triumph of Saint Katherine (three infantry sprues), so that's 2 big sprues, 12 regular sprues and 5 small sprues, for a single army that's not even finished releasing their first wave of stuff (IIRC there's still celestians, characters and Rhinos/Immolators to go). I am, btw, very happy that we have plastic sisters now and collecting them, even though as per current GW policy, their minis are more monopose/multipart than actual multipose minis, which is also the case with Necromunda and everything else, of course.

Necromunda, OTOH, if we count everything released or in preorder so far, has sprues for eight gangs (the six houses, not arbitrers and charnel guys), most with a single sprue but two of those with two, one Kal Jericho and the Ambot, so that's a total of 11 regular sprues and one small sprue, released over the best part of two years, with, apparently, another four sprues slated for 2020 (Ogryns and a "stimmer and forgeborn" equivalent sprue for Escher, Orlock and Van Saar).

Personally I'm happier with what we got (meaning the regular gang sprues) than with these new ones, as they feel more limited and show an unfortunate lack of cross compatibility with the old ones, which I feel is disappointing. I will be happy with anything they release because it means it's new stuff to have, use and remix, but me being happy with it doesn't mean I can't also state that Newcromunda is a line with limited resources allocated and that a fair amount of the time those resources are not being used as well as they could/should.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/17 08:39:31


Post by: Thargrim


 Yodhrin wrote:
 Thargrim wrote:
I think after all six house gangs have their books the game will be in a pretty good place. Especially if each release sees the resin options filled out as well (stig shambler, spyker, van saar suit etc). The necromunda kits are also good value for money, not just in terms of plastic but how far a kit will take you in terms of gameplay. Some gangs are more optimal out of the box than others though. Hopefully any new Cawdor kit turns out good, the initial cawdor plastic kit was a bit limited in terms of options and ability to swap arms. Most of the models are very locked into a specific pose and armament.


For Cawdor I'd quite like it if they quietly ignored the "men & women fight in separate gangs" thing and have their plastic release be the knockoff-Sororitas concept as some kind of (crudely)armoured bruiser/defensive unit.


Hobo sororitas could be interesting, depends on the sculpts though. Would be nice to see them get a faith skillset too, specifically for Cawdor, since people seem so underwhelmed with their skill options. But I think part of the flavor is that they aren't supposed to be particularly skilled or well armed.


Necromunda Underhive news & rumours - House of Chains announced - Ogryn Slave gang previewed @ 2020/02/17 09:35:39


Post by: Albertorius


Yeah, that could be cool ^^. I'm guessing it could also be quite useful for people not that enthused with the new repentia and such.