Good thing they did generic big vehicle and not locked it to just a specific faction... I still expect to see more big expensive kits for Necromunda though... Its GW way.
NAVARRO wrote: Good thing they did generic big vehicle and not locked it to just a specific faction... I still expect to see more big expensive kits for Necromunda though... Its GW way.
I totally agree. I like the truck. It’s a nice truck. It is just a truck though. It’s not particularly exciting. I’m hoping that whatever comes next has a bit more originality.
lord_blackfang wrote: Given the turnaround speeds of 3d modeling I expect to see major not-Ash Wastes STLs on KS and Patreon before GW's actual thing hits the stores.
Good, if anything it's basically just post apocalyptic stuff with a twist. Should be some cool designs.
NAVARRO wrote: Good thing they did generic big vehicle and not locked it to just a specific faction... I still expect to see more big expensive kits for Necromunda though... Its GW way.
I totally agree. I like the truck. It’s a nice truck. It is just a truck though. It’s not particularly exciting. I’m hoping that whatever comes next has a bit more originality.
Well, it's a cheaper alternative than releasing a train/monorail kit. God knows what that would cost.
I've been itching to do a GSC styled cargo truck for a while. Either as a Goliath proxy, or just its own thing for terrain/mission funsies. I love this conversion:
Depending on the price tag and size, the Necromunda kit might a good base to kitbash two "Cargo-8" transports. Building one mostly unaltered, and combining the second trailer/container with either a Goliath kit, or a scratchbuilt or 3d printed cab. I'm cautiously optimistic.
There are already quite a few 3d printable "sci-fi cargo truck" designs on the usual sites, though none have quite tickled me the right way so far. So we'll see if this does the job.
Another advantage for using these guys are that they already come with weapons and a Mad Max junk vibe so there is no need to rebuild your Hot Wheels cars.
Strg Alt wrote: I have found today maybe even a better scale than those for Hot Wheels cars. Dropzone Commander - Resistance models:
Those Dropzone Commander models are the wrong scale (they're 10mm models).
But 40k vehicles tend to be on the very chunky side anyways, so I guess you'd get away with 'regular' 10mm stuff. Just add a few extra details to them.
This is of course if you want to play Titanicus scaled Ash Wastes.
Voss wrote: Probably just the orlock buggies they've already revealed, but in 'detail' (ie, 500 words and 4 pics)
They've got to build up the preview count before release.
lord_blackfang wrote: Given the turnaround speeds of 3d modeling I expect to see major not-Ash Wastes STLs on KS and Patreon before GW's actual thing hits the stores.
Already happened my good Dakka-ite
This was attached the this month's set from one of the Necromunda specific ones I back. Part of a colab I believe.
Voss wrote: Probably just the orlock buggies they've already revealed, but in 'detail' (ie, 500 words and 4 pics)
They've got to build up the preview count before release.
You were so right.
Sometimes they surpass my expectations.
But then they're running the Underworlds articles simultaneously, which very handily demonstrate why my expectations are so low.
I mean, the Orlock quads are silly, but I don't know what those complaining about the land train design were expecting. It's a suitably rugged design, and does exactly what it's supposed to do.
I think we also have to temper that expectation alongside the fact that this is a Specialist Game.
Think of the sprue sizes that Specialist games get, and that this box already has (at least) 3 new sprues of terrain coming in it, and then a sprue for a buggy, and a sprue for 2 big mite things.
So the directive could've easily been: "Yes, you can have a big truck, but try to use existing parts as a base", hence the reason why a big chunk of it is the Munitorum Container.
The new truck might end up being a single sprue with the trailer, wheels, gunners and whatever else they decide it can have, with everything else stemming from the container kit and its various crate/barrel accessories.
So it's simplicity is what gives is modularity (a plus!) but is also what limits the scope of the model itself. I'd love a big pressurised fuel/liquid container that you could put on it, but that's a two piece big bit of plastic they may not see as worth it.
Or if they were really smart they'd've found a way to adapt this or even this to the trailer/cab. I doubt it, but it'd be nice.
Hell, some people will probably end up making various adaptors and plug-ins for 3D printing to make it even easier. Kinda like the people who make Zone Mortalis walls that all the plastic ZM walls to fit seamlessly with the big Zone Mechanicus furnace pieces.
H.B.M.C. wrote: ...So the directive could've easily been: "Yes, you can have a big truck, but try to use existing parts as a base", hence the reason why a big chunk of it is the Munitorum Container.
I don't think anyone has a problem with the kit being made to incorporate the existing container sprue. I'm just saying the cab design could have been better. That being said, the fact is this is the design GW signed off on and this is the design that's going to be sold.
I've got enough Genestealer Cultists to field in an Ash Wastes campaign, so the design issues affect me less. I can even use Orks and their vehicles in a "counts as" list until GW decides to publish rules for them in WD. I guess I just feel less enthusiastic for this edition of the game than I believe I should, probably because we've been spoiled with such cool models and terrain so far.
Meh, more kits will come out later and there's bound to be something that follows the rule of cool again.
Voss wrote: Probably just the orlock buggies they've already revealed, but in 'detail' (ie, 500 words and 4 pics)
They've got to build up the preview count before release.
You were so right.
Sometimes they surpass my expectations.
But then they're running the Underworlds articles simultaneously, which very handily demonstrate why my expectations are so low.
These underworlds previews are actively repulsive. Like they beg you to come over to their house, to tell you a half formed sentence, then ignore you.
lord_blackfang wrote: Given the turnaround speeds of 3d modeling I expect to see major not-Ash Wastes STLs on KS and Patreon before GW's actual thing hits the stores.
Already happened my good Dakka-ite
This was attached the this month's set from one of the Necromunda specific ones I back. Part of a colab I believe.
This looks already better than the Land train and those Orlock buggies.
As expected the very practical banner of the nomads only barely fit in the entrance of the tiny hut, they're gonna knock themselves over many many time if they run through those hut in a rush.
H.B.M.C. wrote: ...So the directive could've easily been: "Yes, you can have a big truck, but try to use existing parts as a base", hence the reason why a big chunk of it is the Munitorum Container.
I don't think anyone has a problem with the kit being made to incorporate the existing container sprue.
Indeed, I think that's one of my favorite things about it, strangely enough. It doesn't come across as lazy because it ties the world together in what feels like a believable way. Gives me ideas for a supply depot gameboard, either in the Wastes or in some part of the Hive itself, with big stacks of these containers, and the haulers used to move them around.
You’ll also get a bitter taste of the Ash Wastes of Necromunda in a special Battle Report, pitching the Ash Waste Nomads against an Orlock gang tooled up in outdoor gear.
Quite obviously I mean that it's locked behind the W+ paywall.
I have no problems with video batreps from them to showcase new things. I have a problem when they could, instead of dripfeeding out itty bitty rules teasers here and there, have a decent showcase.
Chopstick wrote: Paying to see an ad early is quite a GW thing to do.
Exactly. Thats what Games Days were all about. Thats also what Gen Con is all about. If people would srop paying for that privilege, then you might see it stop.
So i see something in on W+? I automatically discard it from my mind as it doesnt even exist to me. If im around people talking about it, i go find something else to do. Better things to spend my attention on than such things.
Chopstick wrote: Paying to see an ad early is quite a GW thing to do.
Exactly. Thats what Games Days were all about. Thats also what Gen Con is all about. If people would srop paying for that privilege, then you might see it stop.
So i see something in on W+? I automatically discard it from my mind as it doesnt even exist to me. If im around people talking about it, i go find something else to do. Better things to spend my attention on than such things.
Well, personally, when I attended both, it was about playing games. And getting free swag. And (for gen con) a lot of vendors I don't normally have in-person access to (and the last time I went was pre-Amazon or Ebay, so that mattered a lot more). For Games Day, better access to Forge World mattered at the time, too.
If you were/are going to either for 'ads,' I'm really not sure what you're doing. Especially given GW's non-presence at GenCon, and their terrible seminars at Games Day (Also known as the 'We can't talk about <subject>' talks)
It does make sense to do the Orlock SC with the Orlocks.
Somehow that looks less bad than starter box quads, even if I'm not completely certain the launcher is attached to the bike (physics would have fun with the gunner if its not) and a belt fed missile launcher on a quad just inherently bothers me. There is some sort of stabilizer arm that is half-hidden behind the missiles, so I guess it is.
However, I really can't unseen the princess from Disney's Brave screeching at enemies in an unreasonable thick brogue, and I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing.
It looks like a pretty standard launcher design, so shouldn't blast her off the back (the backwash counters the recoil). Just don't stand behind her...
So the woman seems to be standing? Not even sitting like the vanilla squad gunner who lacks a backrest? House Orlock must be a subsidiary of Walmart as their cashiers are not allowed to sit either which makes working a chore. Seems working conditions haven´t changed in the future. Poor sods. Calling it now: After a campaign ends all gunners have probably to retire due to back problems.
H.B.M.C. wrote: One wonders how she switches from frags to kraks and back again with a single feed...
I assume it’s just a variable payload munition. Like if you set it to frag it detonates a few feet from the target, starting with one detonator whereas for krak it starts with a different detonator a few inches away. Or something like that anyway. The difference between an explosively formed penetrator and a grenade is basically timing.
Strg Alt wrote: So the woman seems to be standing? Not even sitting like the vanilla squad gunner who lacks a backrest? House Orlock must be a subsidiary of Walmart as their cashiers are not allowed to sit either which makes working a chore. Seems working conditions haven´t changed in the future. Poor sods. Calling it now: After a campaign ends all gunners have probably to retire due to back problems.
At least the Orlocks get to shoot at people who piss them off. Imagine if retail employees got to do the same. That's one hell of a perk.
H.B.M.C. wrote: One wonders how she switches from frags to kraks and back again with a single feed...
I assume it’s just a variable payload munition. Like if you set it to frag it detonates a few feet from the target, starting with one detonator whereas for krak it starts with a different detonator a few inches away. Or something like that anyway. The difference between an explosively formed penetrator and a grenade is basically timing.
And in a belt-fed automatic missile launcher, the difference between frag and krak is a few fractions of a second with the trigger held down
Strg Alt wrote: So the woman seems to be standing? Not even sitting like the vanilla squad gunner who lacks a backrest? House Orlock must be a subsidiary of Walmart as their cashiers are not allowed to sit either which makes working a chore. Seems working conditions haven´t changed in the future. Poor sods. Calling it now: After a campaign ends all gunners have probably to retire due to back problems.
At least the Orlocks get to shoot at people who piss them off. Imagine if retail employees got to do the same. That's one hell of a perk.
It's good how Santa's beard appears to be unaffected by the wind encountered while riding about on a trike.
It's also good how Santa and Brave are so cool that they don't even need to wear goggles or masks, or enclosed suits despite the supposedly extremely hostile environment in the wastes.
Perhaps the ash wastes are dangerous like the Rubicon Primaris is supposedly dangerous, but nobody ever seems to be negatively affected as a result of it.
They think they're fighting in the Ash Wastes, but really they're trapped in a simulation by the 'Ash Wasters' Dark Age tech, and are simply driving around a big empty underhive cavern.
Lord Damocles wrote: It's good how Santa's beard appears to be unaffected by the wind encountered while riding about on a trike.
It's also good how Santa and Brave are so cool that they don't even need to wear goggles or masks, or enclosed suits despite the supposedly extremely hostile environment in the wastes.
Perhaps the ash wastes are dangerous like the Rubicon Primaris is supposedly dangerous, but nobody ever seems to be negatively affected as a result of it.
At this point we can safely assume the horrendous weather conditions of the Ash Wastes is just a tall tale to scare children to not run outside the hive. Meanwhile everybody on his dust bike is enjoying a crystal clear sky while traveling around the wastes.
Lord Damocles wrote: It's good how Santa's beard appears to be unaffected by the wind encountered while riding about on a trike.
It's also good how Santa and Brave are so cool that they don't even need to wear goggles or masks, or enclosed suits despite the supposedly extremely hostile environment in the wastes.
Perhaps the ash wastes are dangerous like the Rubicon Primaris is supposedly dangerous, but nobody ever seems to be negatively affected as a result of it.
At this point we can safely assume the horrendous weather conditions of the Ash Wastes is just a tall tale to scare children to not run outside the hive. Meanwhile everybody on his dust bike is enjoying a crystal clear sky while traveling around the wastes.
its a Mad Max tribute.....you just need goggles and you are fine and if you are hero / heroine - not even that.
Lord Damocles wrote: It's also good how Santa and Brave are so cool that they don't even need to wear goggles or masks, or enclosed suits despite the supposedly extremely hostile environment in the wastes.
Perhaps the ash wastes are dangerous like the Rubicon Primaris is supposedly dangerous, but nobody ever seems to be negatively affected as a result of it.
They both have them, though. So perhaps it's just that goggles and masks are needed for extended stays in the wastes, but for short periods (like a battle) aren't particularly necessary and get in the way.
Lord Damocles wrote: It's also good how Santa and Brave are so cool that they don't even need to wear goggles or masks, or enclosed suits despite the supposedly extremely hostile environment in the wastes.
Perhaps the ash wastes are dangerous like the Rubicon Primaris is supposedly dangerous, but nobody ever seems to be negatively affected as a result of it.
They both have them, though. So perhaps it's just that goggles and masks are needed for extended stays in the wastes, but for short periods (like a battle) aren't particularly necessary and get in the way.
You're right: a battle is exactly the sort of time that I'd want to have my eyes full of irradiated dust.
Crablezworth wrote: I'm still confused why the quads aren't on bases, just seems odd given everything else is now.
Because it isn't everything else? GW's wonderfully, hideously inconsistent about basing- see the Primaris ATV
I'm moderately surprised the Atalan Wolfquad does have a base.
Lord Damocles wrote: It's good how Santa's beard appears to be unaffected by the wind encountered while riding about on a trike.
It's also good how Santa and Brave are so cool that they don't even need to wear goggles or masks, or enclosed suits despite the supposedly extremely hostile environment in the wastes.
Perhaps the ash wastes are dangerous like the Rubicon Primaris is supposedly dangerous, but nobody ever seems to be negatively affected as a result of it.
To be fair Santa does have a nice skull woven into his beard which no doubt keeps it weighted down.
Physics and biology in 40k, like in Star Trek, obviously works on a D&D style level system. You don't need to fear the Ash Wastes when you're 18th level and saving vs rad poisoning on 3s anyway.
You're right. That's why all of the other ash wastes models seen so far have their goggles/masks off.
...wait, no...
I mean, it's not like we don't have 30 years worth of character models with their protective gear removed to look distinctive on the table to go on. In a setting where military commanders routinely wander around the battlefield sans helmet, a couple of gang characters not wearing their goggles seems like a bit of a non-issue.
Lord Damocles wrote: It's good how Santa's beard appears to be unaffected by the wind encountered while riding about on a trike.
It's also good how Santa and Brave are so cool that they don't even need to wear goggles or masks, or enclosed suits despite the supposedly extremely hostile environment in the wastes.
Perhaps the ash wastes are dangerous like the Rubicon Primaris is supposedly dangerous, but nobody ever seems to be negatively affected as a result of it.
To be fair Santa does have a nice skull woven into his beard which no doubt keeps it weighted down.
Physics and biology in 40k, like in Star Trek, obviously works on a D&D style level system. You don't need to fear the Ash Wastes when you're 18th level and saving vs rad poisoning on 3s anyway.
As a bearded fat man myself, I can say with 100% certainty that Santa's beard is clearly tangled in his chest hair and anchored in place. Society invented shirts solely to solve that problem, but I suppose this goes to prove that there are times when it's a blessing. Just be happy he didn't go for the extra security and forgo pants as well.
You're right. That's why all of the other ash wastes models seen so far have their goggles/masks off.
...wait, no...
I mean, it's not like we don't have 30 years worth of character models with their protective gear removed to look distinctive on the table to go on. In a setting where military commanders routinely wander around the battlefield sans helmet, a couple of gang characters not wearing their goggles seems like a bit of a non-issue.
Chopstick wrote: Paying to see an ad early is quite a GW thing to do.
Exactly. Thats what Games Days were all about. Thats also what Gen Con is all about. If people would srop paying for that privilege, then you might see it stop.
So i see something in on W+? I automatically discard it from my mind as it doesnt even exist to me. If im around people talking about it, i go find something else to do. Better things to spend my attention on than such things.
Well, personally, when I attended both, it was about playing games. And getting free swag. And (for gen con) a lot of vendors I don't normally have in-person access to (and the last time I went was pre-Amazon or Ebay, so that mattered a lot more). For Games Day, better access to Forge World mattered at the time, too.
If you were/are going to either for 'ads,' I'm really not sure what you're doing. Especially given GW's non-presence at GenCon, and their terrible seminars at Games Day (Also known as the 'We can't talk about <subject>' talks)
Mate, your activities are incidental. Nobody is going there to be advertised to, and yet, you're paying a premium for that privilege. You may not see it that way, but the rubber is continues hitting the road whether you see it or not.
What is annoying about this resin FW buggy, is that it is far better looking design than the basic plastic one which just looks goofy. The lack of gunner chair and the added bulk of the vehicle are both great improvements. They should have just designed it like this in the first place.
Oh, and it also infuriation that the Orlock keep being afflicted by the pink tax, the female gang members being in expensive resin.
How many of Slate Merdena's twelve daughters have been named? I count 7:
Vespa 'Minx' Merdena is a battle hardened House Orlock Bounty Hunter, who is the (joint) youngest.
Margo Medina is the 7th daughter, and an infamous Road Boss of House Orlock still shy of her 30th birthday.
Lilian Merdena was kidnapped by House Delaque.
Mindi Merdena leads a more sheltered life and runs the Lucky Six in the Crucible.
Vivian Merdena who owns the floating tower of Bighole and regularly leads expeditions down into the underearth to capture mutants and find archaeotech.
Sabryna Doon was one of Slate’s three daughters to join the Palanite Enforcers
Alyce Shivver - daemonically-possessed Bounty Hunter.
Crimson wrote: What is annoying about this resin FW buggy, is that it is far better looking design than the basic plastic one which just looks goofy. The lack of gunner chair and the added bulk of the vehicle are both great improvements. They should have just designed it like this in the first place.
Oh, and it also infuriation that the Orlock keep being afflicted by the pink tax, the female gang members being in expensive resin.
Plastic female orlock existed, it's one of the wrecker, just not a very good one...., also use a different set of arms.
While most gangs have access to garages full of vehicles that come with their own profiles and upgrades, Dustback Helamites work as wargear under the rules. They provide the Mounted condition, and for more mobility, they give their riders a move of 8” and the Mighty Leap skill. Those legs ain’t just for show.
Mounted also applies to dirtbikes and other wargear, and opens up opportunities for a Ride-By, in which a Mounted model may make a single close combat attack if it moves within 1” of an enemy before swooping off. Those Nomad chain lances are beginning to look mighty tasty…
Knocking down mounted riders? So the game expects players to have spare models on foot? What happens if a mite/bike rider gets thrown out of the saddle? Do you need mite models built without riders to represent this fact? Does the uncontrolled bike crash into terrain and be destroyed?
As for the Helamite-riding Nomads, those trusty chain lances have everything you need from a melee weapon designed to skewer enemies from the back of a giant flea – including a Long Range characteristic of 2” and the Lance keyword. This lets them Ride By from 2”, enough to dodge most reaction attacks.
Dealing two damage, with a +2 bonus to Strength, and AP-2, most gangers are going to get perforated in a single devastating thrust.
So is the fixed S in the chart wrong, or are chain lances S5 normally?
Crimson wrote: What is annoying about this resin FW buggy, is that it is far better looking design than the basic plastic one which just looks goofy. The lack of gunner chair and the added bulk of the vehicle are both great improvements. They should have just designed it like this in the first place.
Oh, and it also infuriation that the Orlock keep being afflicted by the pink tax, the female gang members being in expensive resin.
Plastic female orlock existed, it's one of the wrecker, just not a very good one...., also use a different set of arms.
Lack of gunner chair is stupid design just as it is stupid to have one with no backrest.
As for the Helamite-riding Nomads, those trusty chain lances have everything you need from a melee weapon designed to skewer enemies from the back of a giant flea – including a Long Range characteristic of 2” and the Lance keyword. This lets them Ride By from 2”, enough to dodge most reaction attacks.
Dealing two damage, with a +2 bonus to Strength, and AP-2, most gangers are going to get perforated in a single devastating thrust.
So is the fixed S in the chart wrong, or are chain lances S5 normally?
The chart is for the hit you take falling off your ride and has nothing to do with the chain lances.
Strg Alt wrote: Knocking down mounted riders? So the game expects players to have spare models on foot? What happens if a mite/bike rider gets thrown out of the saddle? Do you need mite models built without riders to represent this fact? Does the uncontrolled bike crash into terrain and be destroyed?
May just be that after you get knocked down, you get back up again, and get back on the horse\bike (rather than drinking a lager drink, a cider drink and a vodka drink).
Strg Alt wrote: Knocking down mounted riders? So the game expects players to have spare models on foot? What happens if a mite/bike rider gets thrown out of the saddle? Do you need mite models built without riders to represent this fact? Does the uncontrolled bike crash into terrain and be destroyed?
Wow, you jumped to that conclusion faster than a Helamite. It doesn’t say you get dismounted, just knocked down. As in the whole model with rider, until we know otherwise, I’d say.
Strg Alt wrote: Knocking down mounted riders? So the game expects players to have spare models on foot? What happens if a mite/bike rider gets thrown out of the saddle? Do you need mite models built without riders to represent this fact? Does the uncontrolled bike crash into terrain and be destroyed?
May just be that after you get knocked down, you get back up again, and get back on the horse\bike (rather than drinking a lager drink, a cider drink and a vodka drink).
It really should be called tubthumping.... & you need to make a 4+ pissing test to see if the rest of the game you're relieving yourself.
Strg Alt wrote: Knocking down mounted riders? So the game expects players to have spare models on foot? What happens if a mite/bike rider gets thrown out of the saddle? Do you need mite models built without riders to represent this fact? Does the uncontrolled bike crash into terrain and be destroyed?
Wow, you jumped to that conclusion faster than a Helamite. It doesn’t say you get dismounted, just knocked down. As in the whole model with rider, until we know otherwise, I’d say.
My take would be the logical conclusion. Take a look at bike and horse accidents. Riders are not glued to the saddle like miniatures are.
Flinty wrote: Game mechanics are abstractions and “real life logic” should be avoided if possible.
Earlier editions of 40K allowed crew to exit vehicles. Also will be interesting to see if injured gangers may still crawl around X inches when they are equipped with a mount. Nice head cinema going on when a biker drags his motorcycle across the wastes while painting the ground red with his blood.
May just be that after you get knocked down, you get back up again
But only after you drink a whiskey drink, and a vodka drink...
And a lager drink, and a cider drink
(Couldn't help myself)
On a more serious note: I plan to magnetize my flea riders anyway, if the sculpt allows, because I want to use my fleas as gladiator beasts in the wych cult arena if my wyches mange to catch a few when we realspace raid Necromunda.
Flinty wrote: Game mechanics are abstractions and “real life logic” should be avoided if possible.
Earlier editions of 40K allowed crew to exit vehicles. Also will be interesting to see if injured gangers may still crawl around X inches when they are equipped with a mount. Nice head cinema going on when a biker drags his motorcycle across the wastes while painting the ground red with his blood.
Fair point, but Van Saar already have the “vehicle as mobility enhancing war gear” thing going on, just implemented a bit differently.
If you could exit the vehicles, they would be showing off Vespa and Big Pete on foot like the Middle Earth models. I'm sure you can't get out if you're part of the crew.
ohreally wrote: If you could exit the vehicles, they would be showing off Vespa and Big Pete on foot like the Middle Earth models. I'm sure you can't get out if you're part of the crew.
ohreally wrote: If you could exit the vehicles, they would be showing off Vespa and Big Pete on foot like the Middle Earth models. I'm sure you can't get out if you're part of the crew.
Which is dumb
DUMBed down. Corrected that for ya.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ohreally wrote: If you could exit the vehicles, they would be showing off Vespa and Big Pete on foot like the Middle Earth models. I'm sure you can't get out if you're part of the crew.
True. Exiting vehicles won´t be an option in the official rules though nobody will be stopping you from adding options to your game.
True. Exiting vehicles won´t be an option in the official rules though nobody will be stopping you from adding options to your game.
That's all I was saying. You can of course do whatever you want with your models and games. You can just as easily use these models and terrain to play GorkaMorka if you want.
Strg Alt wrote: Knocking down mounted riders? So the game expects players to have spare models on foot? What happens if a mite/bike rider gets thrown out of the saddle? Do you need mite models built without riders to represent this fact? Does the uncontrolled bike crash into terrain and be destroyed?
Wow, you jumped to that conclusion faster than a Helamite. It doesn’t say you get dismounted, just knocked down. As in the whole model with rider, until we know otherwise, I’d say.
My take would be the logical conclusion. Take a look at bike and horse accidents. Riders are not glued to the saddle like miniatures are.
Your take is actually the exact opposite of the logical conclusion. The logical conclusion is that the previewed rules exist as a concession to the fact that the vehicle and rider are separate entities, despite most of the gameplay treating them as a single entity.
If your take was contextually logical you would not have needed to see any rules to arrive at it. Once you saw a picture of a rider and a vehicle you would have had the same "logical" information (ie. a comparison to the real world) that the rules preview game you. That level of logic would also cause you to believe any number of other things, such as:
- weapon ranges should be several times longer than they are in the game
- Goliaths can carry more equipment and weapons than other gangers
- gangs must purchase (or otherwise acquire) ammunition between campaign games
- when a model moves off a board edge a second board of equal size is set up adjacent to the starting board
etc.
Strg Alt wrote: Knocking down mounted riders? So the game expects players to have spare models on foot? What happens if a mite/bike rider gets thrown out of the saddle? Do you need mite models built without riders to represent this fact? Does the uncontrolled bike crash into terrain and be destroyed?
Wow, you jumped to that conclusion faster than a Helamite. It doesn’t say you get dismounted, just knocked down. As in the whole model with rider, until we know otherwise, I’d say.
My take would be the logical conclusion. Take a look at bike and horse accidents. Riders are not glued to the saddle like miniatures are.
Your take is actually the exact opposite of the logical conclusion. The logical conclusion is that the previewed rules exist as a concession to the fact that the vehicle and rider are separate entities, despite most of the gameplay treating them as a single entity.
If your take was contextually logical you would not have needed to see any rules to arrive at it. Once you saw a picture of a rider and a vehicle you would have had the same "logical" information (ie. a comparison to the real world) that the rules preview game you. That level of logic would also cause you to believe any number of other things, such as:
- weapon ranges should be several times longer than they are in the game
- Goliaths can carry more equipment and weapons than other gangers
- gangs must purchase (or otherwise acquire) ammunition between campaign games
- when a model moves off a board edge a second board of equal size is set up adjacent to the starting board
etc.
Seems to me you are exaggerating for no good reason.
Handling knocked down mounted models just like foot models seems off to me. And when this happens the suspension of disbelief suffers. It´s as simple as that.
Flinty wrote: Game mechanics are abstractions and “real life logic” should be avoided if possible.
Earlier editions of 40K allowed crew to exit vehicles. Also will be interesting to see if injured gangers may still crawl around X inches when they are equipped with a mount. Nice head cinema going on when a biker drags his motorcycle across the wastes while painting the ground red with his blood.
A dismounted and wounded rider and steed may move slowly, the rider using the mount for cover rather than abandoning it and hoofing it on foot. We have no confirmatiojn of how bikers may work yet, only the mite riders.
Pretty sure the special vehicle interaction dice were shown in the box preview. One for damage, one for (out of) control, and looks like one for location o you can separately damage weapons/pilots/engines etc. Nice to confirm 45° turns though; brings back distant memories of 2nd edition and gorkamorka.
I assume there will be driving skills to learn in order to mitigate the effects of being hit in the wheels or whatever.
Makes me curious about the land train though; I can’t see it losing control and doing a 360° spinout or anything like that if someone happens to punch it in the tracks.
Makes me curious about the land train though; I can’t see it losing control and doing a 360° spinout or anything like that if someone happens to punch it in the tracks.
Either it'll have a rule called Big N' Heavy which means that can't happen.. or even sweeter would be that it does happen and it can get "derailed" as it were. If I was going to undertake a land train heist I'd surely try and blow out the tyres to stop it.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Ah man. Do I take the plunge or just stick to the Underhive for now?
Whatever you decide, get the card packs now, because they won't be around for very long.
Of course, having said that:
WarCom wrote:* The new tactics cards will be available to pre-order in North America, Australia, and New Zealand from Saturday. Unfortunately, they will be slightly delayed in the rest of the world.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Ah man. Do I take the plunge or just stick to the Underhive for now?
Whatever you decide, get the card packs now, because they won't be around for very long.
Of course, having said that:
WarCom wrote:* The new tactics cards will be available to pre-order in North America, Australia, and New Zealand from Saturday. Unfortunately, they will be slightly delayed in the rest of the world.
Trouble is I’m moving house next Saturday. This means I’ve kind of realised just how much stuff I’m already sitting on. But, given I’m off to a whole new area, which has a FLGS, I reckon getting my paint on my scenery so I can offer to run a campaign. A good way to meet new people!
It's very clearly 3 of one sprue and 2 of another (plus one of the barricade sprues), but I can't work out the division of walkways (unless they're a separate sprue altogether).
Could the walkway sprue be it's own thing? Could the supports be their own sprue, and you get... 1 of them... or 5 of them?
MonkeyBallistic wrote: It’s very cool that everything is available separately too. I’ve no interest in Necromunda but I really want a box of those nomads.
I love Necromunda kits but yes its great to have it sold separately from day 1. Those Nomads are looking great man and will get them for sure.
The main box looks sweet but I bet its going to be quite pricy.
Need more pointed sticks, but yeah. (there are two sprues of two, so two 'chain lances'). The foot leader's spear can be cannibalized as well (giving two more from the 2 sprues of 5).
Of course, converting traditional lances with frag poppers is an option as well.
The biggest issue (for me, anyway) is the lack of variety in the bugs.
I do love the Ash Wasters as veteran auxiliaries for a Guard army. Foot models as irregular scout veterans, and riders for Rough Bug Riders. Locals or specialists who can handle the necessary scout and skirmish roles (that 40k tends to handwave)
H.B.M.C. wrote: Could the supports be their own sprue, and you get... 1 of them... or 5 of them?
For as many pieces as they show, and them being large, flat, and easy to tesselate on a frame, I'd say it is a safe bet that there is a sprue of all/mostly bridges.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Could the supports be their own sprue, and you get... 1 of them... or 5 of them?
For as many pieces as they show, and them being large, flat, and easy to tesselate on a frame, I'd say it is a safe bet that there is a sprue of all/mostly bridges.
I think the longer bridge at the back is actually 2x separate bridge sections glued together. There may be an option in the bridges to make them flexible and changeable, or to glue permanently to make longer but sturdier bridges.
It looks like 2x ofthe longer segment between the antenna and the first tent/hab thing glued together.
Could quite easily be wrong though, it is great terrain.
The separate Nomads aren’t on the price list I’d assume £28.
*£180 used to be $290 but not €225 (it was €237)there isn’t an exact match on the online store so this may be a bit more?
The preorder video also claims the terrain is available seperately
*£180 used to be $290 but not €225 (it was €237)there isn’t an exact match on the online store so this may be a bit more?
Yikes that's pricey. Know quite a few where I live that were interested in getting in on this, but after the price reveal locally(39.999 kr for the box set) they are just backing off.
Foe Motu they pay for the IP. But you cannot compare two starter set only for the models inside in my opinion. Anyway it is too much for me and I won't pay for it. I'll save money for ME:SBG new releases.
Both gangs will also be supported by character models in the near future, including a certain bold, flame-haired Outrider. You can expect to see a supplement coming for their rules very soon.
Whoops the backpack did take away 25% sprue space. But I guess 7 weapons for 5 bodies ain't that bad. And you get the other pistol hand from the flea rider to have a dual wield pistoleer.
"Here is a pic of some sprues that you can't really zoom in on. And no pics of the terrain other than the one you've already seen. Are we unboxing like the kids do on the You Tubes?" - NuGW
Probably best just buy the new vehicle and use your own terrains, since this expansion focus more on vehicle you wouldn't need that many terrain anyway.
£28 was what I was hoping for, for the Nomads, and glad to see the Bug riders are the same. With 20% discount I'm fine with that. It would be cool if they added a desert Ambull for good measure, but I'm still looking forward to what else they release for the Nomads.
No interest in the large box set, but I will say that if its to replace Hive War as the starter set going forward, then its far too expensive for that.
Jesus fething christ, 225 euros...OK, OK, you get 25% discount, but it's still 168 euros. And they advertised Titanicus GM edition as 'super expensive'. I'm afraid to think how much for Heresy starter, then...
CragHack wrote: Jesus fething christ, 225 euros...OK, OK, you get 25% discount, but it's still 168 euros. And they advertised Titanicus GM edition as 'super expensive'. I'm afraid to think how much for Heresy starter, then...
As a jumping in point for two players, I don’t think it’s too bad. Two complete gangs with vehicles/mounts, and what seems a decent kick start to terrain, plus all the other gubbins you might need. With a discount and split between two, the price seems a bit better to my mind.
I do say seems a decent kick start to terrain, as one sufficient terrain is highly subjective, and we don’t yet know enough about the vehicle/mount mechanics yet to get much of a feel for what’s what in that regard. Plus for those who might want more, ground level junk and sand dune equivalent stuff is easy enough to make.
Me? I’m probably just gonna for for the rulebook, as it’s all updated (I think I can head Baxx’s cranial cogitator spinning out though ) and once I’m moved down and settled into Folkestone, I want to run an Underhive Campaign. So having the most up to date rulebook seems a broadly sensible option.
Jadenim wrote: I’m trying to figure out if it comes with the full gang tactics cards for both gangs. I think it does, but the announcement isn’t entirely clear.
If it's anything like previous releases, then no, it won't.
Jadenim wrote: I’m trying to figure out if it comes with the full gang tactics cards for both gangs. I think it does, but the announcement isn’t entirely clear.
If it's anything like previous releases, then no, it won't.
Don't most of the starter boxes come with some exclusive gang tactics (with some additional exclusive ones coming via the card pack)? My impression has always been that in order to get the "full" slate of tactics cards you're going to be committed to buying nearly every release that includes any.
I do say seems a decent kick start to terrain, as one sufficient terrain is highly subjective, and we don’t yet know enough about the vehicle/mount mechanics yet to get much of a feel for what’s what in that regard. Plus for those who might want more, ground level junk and sand dune equivalent stuff is easy enough to make.
It's not so subjective as to surmount the core rules of the game, and unless those change for Ash Wastes (ie. additional shooting modifiers to due atmospheric disturbances, etc.) the amount of terrain in this box remains insignificant.
In fact, much of it would be largely un-interactable-with in many games, due to the lack of features like ladders that would allow ascent to the second level (as well as the mechanical inefficiency/opportunity cost of actually climbing a ladder in the ruleset) combined with the fact that there's little to reason to want to ascend to the second level, because the majority of it offers no cover and hanging around on those platforms and walkways will cause the triggering of fall tests on any fighters who decide to go up there for no reason.
If you had to play a game of Underhive with this terrain it would probably entail models clustering around the feet of the pods for cover modifiers, and everyone ignoring the second level unless they were able to deploy onto it or right beside the ramp.
I don't hate the terrain but it's an abysmal starting point for brand new players (again, pending sweeping rules changes that tone down shooting actions).
Eh, just picked up Kill Team Nachmund this month for the terrain and Corsairs as my Arbitrator’s Balancing Tool… Not crazy about the gangs and don’t need one more rule book right now, so pass and buy books later.
Ancient Otter wrote: Will the Ash Wastes gang be usable in regular Necromunda without the fleas?
The kit's available separate from them, the rulebook seemingly expands stuff to "outside" whatever that means in terms of rules differences, they seem mostly long range.
StraightSilver wrote: Someone on the FB community page confirmed the cards in the box are not the same as those sold separately.
Apparently in the box are Ash Wastes Tactics Cards, which are different to the gang tactics cards for Orlocks and Nomads.
This box contains a total of 89 cards, representing Road Sections and Trade Routes to help keep track of the routes every player holds over the course of an Ash Wastes Campaign, as well as a whole host of Ash Wastes Gang Tactics for either side.
Per the blurb for the actual cards:
Deploy cunning Ash Waste Nomads tactics with this card pack.* It comes with 18-gang specific tactics to earn you the upper hand in your games, and also includes eight fighter cards so that you can track the stats, skills, and weapons of your nomads.
Dark Uprising was similar as to how it was set up it looks like:
Spoiler:
One set of cards is for the campaign, one set of cards is generic tactics, and one set is faction specific stuff. That's what it looks like for Ash Wastes as well.
Also no guarantee the rulebook and dice will be available separately.
Clan box is the same price of current ones so all good there.
Yeah I was kind of expecting the main box to be expensive, the terrain these days is so overpriced that its going to push the prices up. Its just 26 minis after all.
Its ok if a couple of friends split the value though.
Strg Alt wrote: 225 Euro?! Loooooooool! Everybody will be better off by playing with sticks and stones!
MOTU gets shipped tomorrow in Germany with a price tag of about 80-90 Euro. Looking forward to epic battles with He-Man and Skeletor instead.
Holy balls that is expensive.
I suspect we'll reach the intersection point where the GW boxed set price will be as expensive as an entry level 3d printer, a jug of resin and alcohol, and a dozen paid STLs via a month or two of patreon by 2024.
I don't recall, what was the the price of Dark Uprising when it came out? I remember it being quite expensive as well and was under the impression that kind of hurt it in sales but if they are doing another box in that range it would seem it did not do that much to dissuade folks.
290USD for Dark Uprising.
150 for the Hive Wars box, which come with gangs rule not compatible with the other books, and walls and pillar terrains, which we all know is the best kind of terrain.
Strg Alt wrote: 225 Euro?! Loooooooool! Everybody will be better off by playing with sticks and stones!
MOTU gets shipped tomorrow in Germany with a price tag of about 80-90 Euro. Looking forward to epic battles with He-Man and Skeletor instead.
Holy balls that is expensive.
I suspect we'll reach the intersection point where the GW boxed set price will be as expensive as an entry level 3d printer, a jug of resin and alcohol, and a dozen paid STLs via a month or two of patreon by 2024.
I was almost sure I was going to get the Ash Wastes box as my dive-in to Necromunda, but for $300? I'm gonna have to think real hard about whether it's worth that. I was hoping to replace my dying 3D printer soonish, and as was pointed out above that might actually be cheaper than getting the box set (not for me, as the printer I want is the Elegoo Mars 3, which is more expensive). I also have a friend who's gonna sell me a bunch of Orlock stuff real cheap, so maybe what I should do instead is figure on getting a set of the quad bikes, at least one box of the Ash Wastes gang (since I really want those), and a set of the bug riders, and hope I can snag the rulebook somewhere. Speaking of that, is the rulebook a new edition of the regular Necromunda rules, or is it just the existing rules plus the outdoor battling rules?
ZergSmasher wrote: Speaking of that, is the rulebook a new edition of the regular Necromunda rules, or is it just the existing rules plus the outdoor battling rules?
Hopefully some lovely reviewer will reveal this on Saturday through a handy video review of the book (pretty please Brews and Sprues!)
For those of us who have been collecting/gaming this for years now, the price does seem a tad high. But for anyone jumping into the game new (and with this change of venue to outside and including vehicles and such I think new players are a huge target) the box set does have value to it. With gangs at 47 USD each and most rule books hitting around 60 USD thats already 248 USD retail... add in the tactics cards and who knows how much the terrain is gonna run, it is gonna be a savings..
It just makes a huge over-investment for anyone who already had standing Orlock gangs...(I still have 3 boxes I haven't completed), but overall,, not a bad beginner entry value for an instantly playable box set.
ah64pilot5 wrote: For those of us who have been collecting/gaming this for years now, the price does seem a tad high. But for anyone jumping into the game new (and with this change of venue to outside and including vehicles and such I think new players are a huge target) the box set does have value to it. With gangs at 47 USD each and most rule books hitting around 60 USD thats already 248 USD retail... add in the tactics cards and who knows how much the terrain is gonna run, it is gonna be a savings..
It just makes a huge over-investment for anyone who already had standing Orlock gangs...(I still have 3 boxes I haven't completed), but overall,, not a bad beginner entry value for an instantly playable box set.
You really think so? I would think that someone wanting to enter the hobby would strongly balk if told they have to start with paying 225 euros right off the bat, much more than anyone already inured to GW pricing schemes.
Plus, for a beginner there's nothing there "instantly playable". It's not an "open the box and play" kinda game, at all.
Yeah but these sets are designed to be "two friends buy it, open and play". They are all-in-one kits designed to give a bit of everything and play right out of the box. No additions, no extras just on the table and play.
With no disrespect meant to people's thoughts on it, I can't ever quite figure out why the "new players" discussion gets brought in with all these $150-300 GW releases. If they did a marketing survey where they got to interview every one who bought this, people new to the hobby with no other GW purchases wouldn't even make up 1% if the people who buy this. It's probably more like 1% of 1%.
All the big box sets GW makes (that aren't 40K starters) are targeted at middle aged men who have been buying their stuff for decades and have already talked themselves into these prices years ago.
frankelee wrote: With no disrespect meant to people's thoughts on it, I can't ever quite figure out why the "new players" discussion gets brought in with all these $150-300 GW releases. If they did a marketing survey where they got to interview every one who bought this, people new to the hobby with no other GW purchases wouldn't even make up 1% if the people who buy this. It's probably more like 1% of 1%.
All the big box sets GW makes (that aren't 40K starters) are targeted at middle aged men who have been buying their stuff for decades and have already talked themselves into these prices years ago.
So based on marketing data that you claim they haven't done, you're able to draw conclusions on a demographic? That's pretty impressive. (Also, that math... so, 1/10,000 buying a big box are new players? That's rather bold.)
Overread wrote: Yeah but these sets are designed to be "two friends buy it, open and play". They are all-in-one kits designed to give a bit of everything and play right out of the box. No additions, no extras just on the table and play.
I get that but for example the new smaller kill team starter which is much more modest in therms of terrain, still achieves that but for a fraction of the price?
frankelee wrote: With no disrespect meant to people's thoughts on it, I can't ever quite figure out why the "new players" discussion gets brought in with all these $150-300 GW releases. If they did a marketing survey where they got to interview every one who bought this, people new to the hobby with no other GW purchases wouldn't even make up 1% if the people who buy this. It's probably more like 1% of 1%.
All the big box sets GW makes (that aren't 40K starters) are targeted at middle aged men who have been buying their stuff for decades and have already talked themselves into these prices years ago.
So based on marketing data that you claim they haven't done, you're able to draw conclusions on a demographic? That's pretty impressive. (Also, that math... so, 1/10,000 buying a big box are new players? That's rather bold.)
Yeah, if you think people new to tabletop gaming are walking into the gaming store on the weekend it comes out to grab a limited availability copy of this for $300, then you're just not somebody who knows much about the industry. Sorry if that makes you mad.
Overread wrote: Yeah but these sets are designed to be "two friends buy it, open and play". They are all-in-one kits designed to give a bit of everything and play right out of the box. No additions, no extras just on the table and play.
I get that but for example the new smaller kill team starter which is much more modest in therms of terrain, still achieves that but for a fraction of the price?
Which kind of makes sense when you consider that Killteam was specifically designed to appeal to the lighter wallet/newer player. Killteam works best by appealing to a lower price bracket because the idea is to get you started with Killteam and then grow into full 40K armies.
Necromunda isn't a gateway product in the same nature. So they can go for a box that's more expensive, but a lot more impressive in one big go.
Overread wrote: Yeah but these sets are designed to be "two friends buy it, open and play". They are all-in-one kits designed to give a bit of everything and play right out of the box. No additions, no extras just on the table and play.
I get that but for example the new smaller kill team starter which is much more modest in therms of terrain, still achieves that but for a fraction of the price?
Which kind of makes sense when you consider that Killteam was specifically designed to appeal to the lighter wallet/newer player. Killteam works best by appealing to a lower price bracket because the idea is to get you started with Killteam and then grow into full 40K armies.
Necromunda isn't a gateway product in the same nature. So they can go for a box that's more expensive, but a lot more impressive in one big go.
I could be more willing to accept the inclusion of so much terrain as essential in an underhive dense vertical corridors setting etc... but ash wastes looks like the terrain is much less dense and could be easily replicated with other sets or brands, its just more generic.
One starter for 2 players with a few small pieces for say half the price of the box and then an optional Necromunda branded terrain for ash wastes would potentially be a more tempting option.
"New p[layers" are not all people who never purchase any GW products, could be people who collect the models, but don't play until X happen that tick their interest, could be people that play other GW games and want to play a new game.
WIth a high price point, many would probably prefer KT instead, more popular, better price. more factions, less books, use existing models.
Chopstick wrote: "New p[layers" are not all people who never purchase any GW products, could be people who collect the models, but don't play until X happen that tick their interest, could be people that play other GW games and want to play a new game.
WIth a high price point, many would probably prefer KT instead, more popular, better price. more factions, less books, use existing models.
I do and I don’t disagree.
You’re spot on that New Player doesn’t necessarily mean someone entirely new to the wider hobby.
But I’m not sure that for Necromunda, a high boxed game price point is necessarily that much of a hurdle. For example, I myself own one of every book released since the relaunch (certainly all the hardbacks), hundreds of pounds worth of Zone Mortalis, more Sector Mechanicus than I realised (you notice these things when moving house!), and enough non-gang specific models to run a campaign with.
From my example? Once I’m settled and have convinced Chaos Cards to let me use their gaming room to host a campaign? Anyone else joining in only needs their House Book, and models for their nascent gang. I can provide everything else, from terrain, rules decisions and indeed rulebook, and a narrative campaign. Hell, I’m even open to letting folk peruse my other books, so long as their hands aren’t all manky and dirty. I can then encourage players to pick up other sundry bits and bobs from the store, such as terrain to customise in their gang colours/graffiti, so when they’re defending it looks like it’s happening on their turf.
Chopstick wrote: "New p[layers" are not all people who never purchase any GW products, could be people who collect the models, but don't play until X happen that tick their interest, could be people that play other GW games and want to play a new game.
WIth a high price point, many would probably prefer KT instead, more popular, better price. more factions, less books, use existing models.
With as much as they increased the dabble price for KT, you are right that necromunda could make folks think they are getting a bargain picking up octarius for 1/3 off what this box will cost. Maybe that’s their strategy.
In the end the important thing isn't the content of the boxed set, but that all the parts are put on individual sale.
So you have a choice - big boxed set with discount or go for the individual parts you want. And chances are most nations with a healthy GW market will end up with a good chunk of split sets on ebay and trading sites as people buy for the discount and then sell on what they don't want/need from the whole set.
frankelee wrote: With no disrespect meant to people's thoughts on it, I can't ever quite figure out why the "new players" discussion gets brought in with all these $150-300 GW releases. If they did a marketing survey where they got to interview every one who bought this, people new to the hobby with no other GW purchases wouldn't even make up 1% if the people who buy this. It's probably more like 1% of 1%.
All the big box sets GW makes (that aren't 40K starters) are targeted at middle aged men who have been buying their stuff for decades and have already talked themselves into these prices years ago.
H.B.M.C. wrote: "Here is a pic of some sprues that you can't really zoom in on. And no pics of the terrain other than the one you've already seen. Are we unboxing like the kids do on the You Tubes?" - NuGW
It seems like whoever wrote that has literally never seen a single unboxing video of anything. They just heard the buzzword and wanted to show that they're hip with the young kids...
I'm in camp #2 if I can find something locally and it's worth a good bit on ebay. However, I don't see a lot of room to flip a box this expensive. By the time you pay sales tax and ebay fees you're breaking even to go through the effort of buying, selling and shipping a giant box. The higher the MSRP, the harder it is to make a profit flipping. Now the $30-35 character models for store events that sell for $75-100 on ebay, I'll grab those all day long. Sometimes I see 2 or 3 just sitting on the shelf months after the event.
Not sure if I would consider myself as a true whale - but I do *buy what I like, almost regardless of price*.
This include atleast one of each of every Necromunda release this far (except for cards, card stock and dice).
I also tend to buy stuff that might come in handy for conversions (such as Blood Bowl teams just for their open hands).
Being a middle aged male with an economy stable enough to not have any problems with supporting nice looking GW releases - and at the same time push some money into my local gaming store.
I now have a huge shelf with perhaps a hundred unopened or partially cannibalized boxes - and I have no illusions on ever getting all content painted.
Still I cannot feel any shame whatsoever - as these boxes (together with lots of loose bitz) is used as a creative library of parts for all my conversions and other builds.
Also, I can just grab a box and give it to a friend for Christmas or a birthday if I want to nudge them into taking up the hobby
I'm a "new player" who got ridiculously excited about Ash Wastes, and even though I blanche a bit at the thought... I'll be preordering this. I have played Necromunda a few times, years ago, but haven't tried the new version. But I miiiight fit into that "compulsive spender" or maybe "whale" category mentioned above.
But I'm most excited about the hobby aspect. Painting up weathered habitats sitting 50' in the air? Crazy looking nomads on giant fleas?
Hell yea sign me up
But jeez. Please don't price the huge truck / land train at $150....
Automatically Appended Next Post: (and I'll admit: my heart skips a beat with joy when I watch my 6 year old play with my 40K terrain. He doesn't know how to play yet, but loves setting up giant battles, and I love watching!)
To my mind, a starter set is supposed to be a relatively inexpensive introduction to a game. It doesn't need to include complete, usable forces, or a full table's worth of terrain... it just needs to give players enough to get started with. That gives them a (ideally) temptingly-priced introduction, and then if they enjoy the game they go and add on other stuff. This is exactly what the original Necromunda starter set did... it gave you about half a table's worth of terrain, and very basic models to build your first gang, and then offered the individual stuff to build on from there.
Ash Wastes doesn't fit that criteria. Not for that price. It's not a starter set, it's a boxed game. And an expensive one even then.
Yeah, I spend an embarrassing amount on miniatures, and I like ash wastes aesthetics enough to consider diving into Necromunda. I even saved up for a couple months to buy in...
It's all coming at once, i've already got and order in for the giant fleas
edit: and come to think of it i've not seen a 'preorder guarantee' for the big box, has anybody else? does that and the simultaneous release of all of the individual kits suggest the box set is going to be more limited in number than many suspect?
If GW is releasing all the content in one go they won't need a pre-order guarantee on the boxed set because you'll be able to get all the content outside of it.
The Guarantees tend to be more when the box content is either fully limited to the box or when the individual models are a bit of time away from being released.
H.B.M.C. wrote: "Here is a pic of some sprues that you can't really zoom in on. And no pics of the terrain other than the one you've already seen. Are we unboxing like the kids do on the You Tubes?" - NuGW
It seems like whoever wrote that has literally never seen a single unboxing video of anything. They just heard the buzzword and wanted to show that they're hip with the young kids...
I'm in camp #2 if I can find something locally and it's worth a good bit on ebay. However, I don't see a lot of room to flip a box this expensive. By the time you pay sales tax and ebay fees you're breaking even to go through the effort of buying, selling and shipping a giant box. The higher the MSRP, the harder it is to make a profit flipping. Now the $30-35 character models for store events that sell for $75-100 on ebay, I'll grab those all day long. Sometimes I see 2 or 3 just sitting on the shelf months after the event.
I don’t think this’ll work for scalpers.
Write off the Orlock box from this, but the other three boxes will go at 20% off their solo price. Orlock gang lower as it’s more “everywhere” and not new.
Terrain and rulebook both could go ok, but not make up enough I’d say.
Now if they didn’t release individually at the same time, then yeah all the new models you could sell at the GW price, as opposed to the third party price etc..
Well there're people out there who would happily sell off stuffs they don't need from the box to recuperate from the wallet damage. And that's probably how to be a modern GW customers, split and ebay.
Chopstick wrote: Well there're people out there who would happily sell off stuffs they don't need from the box to recuperate from the wallet damage. And that's probably how to be a modern GW customers, split and ebay.
That's what I'm doing. The Orlocks will be going off to someone and I'll be looking at offloading the terrain as well. I do occasionally wish they produced a rules only release
"This is just the tip of the iceberg for the Nomads!"
Well that's terrifying.
We're going to get a book for every gang - that much is inevitable - but what if they want to add new bugs to Ash Waste Nomads, a second book for them later down the line? Another whole giant expensive hard back book (plus an attendant card release) per new bug?
Unless there are more Ash Waste Nomad minis that haven't been revealed yet and they'll all be in the Ash Waste Nomad book (I seriously doubt that though).
H.B.M.C. wrote: "This is just the tip of the iceberg for the Nomads!"
Well that's terrifying.
We're going to get a book for every gang - that much is inevitable - but what if they want to add new bugs to Ash Waste Nomads, a second book for them later down the line? Another whole giant expensive hard back book (plus an attendant card release) per new bug?
Unless there are more Ash Waste Nomad minis that haven't been revealed yet and they'll all be in the Ash Waste Nomad book (I seriously doubt that though).
Well other factions have 2 box sets and weapon set, with this release nomads will have 1 box set and 1 vehicle box set so they can still have a box of specialists and weapons sets. I fully expect that the other factions will have a 3rd set for vehicles too.
And for the other gangs, getting their "Ash Wastes" expansion should be fine. But are Nomads going to get a book every time they get something new?
Because I seriously doubt that they're going to have rules for units they don't have models for yet (Forge World's inherent Necromunda slowness not withstanding).
Chopstick wrote: Well there're people out there who would happily sell off stuffs they don't need from the box to recuperate from the wallet damage. And that's probably how to be a modern GW customers, split and ebay.
Thats not a fun game, and this being a prerequiste to giving them custom is an adventure in eye rolling so acute, they'll look like yarn balls from so many feet of ocular nerves wrapped.
H.B.M.C. wrote: "This is just the tip of the iceberg for the Nomads!"
Well that's terrifying.
We're going to get a book for every gang - that much is inevitable - but what if they want to add new bugs to Ash Waste Nomads, a second book for them later down the line? Another whole giant expensive hard back book (plus an attendant card release) per new bug?
Unless there are more Ash Waste Nomad minis that haven't been revealed yet and they'll all be in the Ash Waste Nomad book (I seriously doubt that though).
It would be more prudent to include unit cards in the new unit boxes. All special rules on unit cards would be explained in the Ash Wastes core rule book. This means there wouldn´t be a need to print a second version of an Ash Waste Nomads book which is also the reason why it won´t happen. All hail to a new season of Bookromunda!
Wow man the Red clothes painted nomads rock! Im going to cut those banners and possibly the back packs off though. Painted terrain looking sweet! I wonder how the interior of the sheds looks like.
lord_blackfang wrote: I wonder if the hut tops and bottoms are the same piece? Just to throw another spanner in HBMC's trying to work out the sprue layouts.
I bet they are!
Looking at the open entryway on the teal huts, the base size looks the same as the top panel.
There is the round socket on the top of those pieces, with no feature standing out as only possible on top.
Because I seriously doubt that they're going to have rules for units they don't have models for yet (Forge World's inherent Necromunda slowness not withstanding).
Ambots and Ogryns both had rules before models, and the models were not Forgeworld releases.
They will not need to release a new Nomad book every time they want to release a new kit. A book for every gang is not inevitable. I wouldn't be surprised if they switch the next batch of sourcebook titles from house to region, ie. "Survival in the Salt Flats," "Survival in the Promethium Ponds," whatever.
I was in a GW store today for the first time in a good long while and I forgot what full price looks like.
So with 20% off it's 144 quid give or take. 70 quid between two people. It's not bad but it's not great. Things like Necromunda I suppose work a bit better because once you have your gang you are set, there's nowt you need to pick up after that. The terrain looks very nice, especially the different paint jobs from the warcom article.
I can't see myself picking any of it up any time soon but I do like the minis.
So we know they’re getting other creatures for the Nomads.
Maybe their specialist box will be a Nomad and creature mix.
Either way, my assumption is they’ll get box three when they get their book.
Which after this will be the next set of releases.
New Orlock book, Nomad book, Nomad extra kit. Maybe terrain separately.
Then slowly each gang new book with vehicle sets. One at a time (two at a time would be nice to get it all out, but less likely).
Those are magnificent. I agree, I'm gonna have to try the red nomad get up. Thanks for posting
Vincent Knotley(the moderator for the Warhammer Twitch Stream) shared his recipes on the Twitters:
For the bugs:
Knotley wrote:Zandri Dust, 3:1 contrast medium to snakebite leather all over
1:1 contrast medium to cygor brown in the deepest recesses
drybrush zandri dust, drybrush a 1:1 mix of Zandri Dust and Deepkin Flesh
highlight with the same mix
very very edge highlight deepkin.
Oh and the eyes are loads of super thin coats of terradon turquoise over corax white with a highlight of Temple Guard Blue then Baharroth Blue then another couple of glazes.
For the red:
Word Bearers Red + heavily thinned Wyldwood + Squig Orange + Cadian Fleshtone = real good red.
lord_blackfang wrote: So, anyone planning to use the Gang Stronghold for their Ash Wastes outpost, and the AW terrain for a Sump/Water underhive board?
I'm already there with the Strongholds, on the fence about the ash terrain.
lord_blackfang wrote: I wonder if the hut tops and bottoms are the same piece? Just to throw another spanner in HBMC's trying to work out the sprue layouts.
lord_blackfang wrote: I'm gonna guess so far that ATV (and the fleas) will be functionally identical to a 40k cavalry model, ie. a single, non-divisible game piece. With to day's obsession with WYSIWYG I cannot see GW allowing you to dismount a vehicle and possibly an enemy ganger jumping in and driving off with it if there's no way to pysically add/remove models from the seats. Maybe something changes later in the Book of Trucks.
The trading post update has a lot of changing of "fighter" to "model", no doubt to cover that fact that vehicles aren't "fighters". It's not consistent, however, because of course it's not.
Caryatid is added as an Exotic Beast straight in the rules, which is nice I 'spose.
And speaking of 'calling it', I paused the video when we got a really good side-on view of one of the huts, and you're dead right: The top and bottom plates are the same piece, just flipped 180 degrees horizontally. So that changes my sprue breakdown count. They could come on two sprues or two, which means there's a separate sprue for the walls.
Still can't figure out the walkways, as two of them appear unique. Either way, at $470 it's not like I'm buying this, so...
It just occurred to me, I think Necromunda is the only GW game left where every book is available to buy digitally. I’m worried that is about to change. There’s been no mention of a digital edition of this new rule book yet.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: It just occurred to me, I think Necromunda is the only GW game left where every book is available to buy digitally. I’m worried that is about to change. There’s been no mention of a digital edition of this new rule book yet.
Adeptus Titanicus & Blood Bowl have all of theirs as well. Aeronautica Imperialis & Warcry have a few books.
Underhive, Dark Uprising and Hive War's rulebooks were never digital either. Instead some nice people had to scan them each. I do wonder if this is why no one seems to have read DU's (lovely) fluff, especially its nice subjugator pages.
PetitionersCity wrote: Underhive, Dark Uprising and Hive War's rulebooks were never digital either. Instead some nice people had to scan them each. I do wonder if this is why no one seems to have read DU's (lovely) fluff, especially its nice subjugator pages.
I wasn’t aware that any of those contained material not available in the main book releases. I’ve bought every Necromunda digital book but this could be the end of following Necromunda for me. I found the physical copy of the rules that came with Underhive utterly illegible due to a combination of my dyslexia and its baffling choice of thin black text on a mottled grey background.
pancakeonions wrote: So as someone new to Necromunda (and new to GW products, as I've not bought anything of their flagship games in years [decades?])...
If I buy their Cargo 8 Ridgehauler, will I have to buy some book to play it? Or do their models come with the rules necessary to play?
I'm very much less excited about having to buy anything else, after I pick up the Box Sex, the Ridgehauler (and maybe any future bugs they announce)
These days they usually have some abridged rules for the model in the instruction book (though that can be outdated by FAQs and new edition and such) but for to know what the rules mean and how the rest of the game works, yeah you will need a copy of the rule book and usually a supplement for that faction too.
pancakeonions wrote: I'm very much less excited about having to buy anything else, after I pick up the Box Sex, the Ridgehauler (and maybe any future bugs they announce)
I still think the GSC Ridgerunner is the best vehicle for Ash Wastes as it is not compressed like the Quad and doesn´t force the gunner to look goofy in some kind of way. Which is of course funny as it is up to now not even a legal model for Ash Wastes.
Strg Alt wrote: I still think the GSC Ridgerunner is the best vehicle for Ash Wastes as it is not compressed like the Quad and doesn´t force the gunner to look goofy in some kind of way. Which is of course funny as it is up to now not even a legal model for Ash Wastes.
I expect most of the GSC bikes and vehicles will become legal for Ash Wastes whenever GW gets around to making rules for them.
And speaking of 'calling it', I paused the video when we got a really good side-on view of one of the huts, and you're dead right: The top and bottom plates are the same piece, just flipped 180 degrees horizontally.
Actually I was wrong on this one. Observe how high up on each piece the walkway attachment bars are mounted.
Interesting video. The Quad, and it's stats, look reassuringly generic enough that "some kind of buggy" will fit without any problems (like the old Ork ones I'm likely to use) and we know Bikes are wargear, and therefore also extremely generic. Looking forward to finding out what other vehicles are mentioned in the rules, and for what houses.
).
I’d assume £28.
