Chaos' big moment. They did it. 10,000 years, and Abaddon has broken the last road block of the warp!
Cadia has fallen. The Cadians made a valient last stand
Chaos spews forth in to real space!

Imperium: 6 new models (no guard models)
Eldar: 3 new models (and a new faction)

"But you just got Magnus", you may exclaim! But as he has nothing to do with FoC, this has nothing to do with Chaos' big moment.

Yes but for completely different reasons.
In Curse of the Wulfen they introduced/expanded on cool Wolf Lords Egil Ironwolf and Sven Bloodhowl - then killed them both by the end of Cadia.

I'm pretty pissed off that in Chaos' big moment all we got was....

Traitor Legions - to try and bring us on part with other armies.
Magnus - who is pretty much unusable to me as a Nurgle player :(

And just when Traitor Legions sort of brought us on par?

Part 1 - dumps one of the most hilariously cheap SCs that can be taken freely in any Imperial Army and a hilariously resilient Ad-Mech character who we're now going to see sitting in every fething conclave we ever see again.

Part 2 - brings us EW Eldar SCs, a better Avatar as one of them and the new faction which basically lets you pick and mix the best Eldar/DE/Harlequinn bits and then freely act outside the normal turn phase, cause that's what they needed, right?

Part 3 - everyone is screaming Girlyman is unusable and ignoring the fact he costs half Magnus' points and is far, far more durable. 2+/3++, T6, 6 wounds, the ability to get back up, all the command traits, immunity to Ld shenanigans and some bloody brilliant weapons? Unusable? He's better than the equivalent cost of Tyranid Carnifexes. He's better than any Daemon Prince I've seen. 2+/3++ with T6 and 6 wounds. Are. You. Fething. Kidding. Me?

Oh, and hey, new models for a GK character and Cypher who has decided to no longer be a Chaos special character despite being in the CSM book in 2nd ed, 3rd ed, a White Dwarf article for CSM in 4th ed and a dataslate listing his faction as CSM in 6th ed.

That's cool. Neat. Watch as he's suddenly no longer available to CSM.

Egil was dead before that, They breifly fleshed him out in Curse of the Wulfen only to kill him in Wrath of Magnus as Logan's meatshield before he got all empowed by Khorne to banish Magnus.

That's probably an even worse fate than Sven, who was at least able to take some of the forces of chaos down with him and force Abaddon to completely change his plan.



I wouldn't say I'm bitter about Fall of Cadia, just disappointed. It killed off the 2nd or 3rd best Space Wolf character that exists (after Bjorn and maybe Krom) and while Chaos did get a solid win for once rather than the Imperium getting a pyrrhic victory everything that's come from it hasn't really been to my taste.

Also Abaddon not getting a new mini is a travesty! (Unless of course he gets a really good update at a later date in a different campaign).

Also the ridiculousness of some the new new rules for the Special Characters just makes me shake my head.

I have a hunch that we're not done with big releases this year, I'd expect to see more trimvirates. for chaos I'd not be too suprised to see a package with abbaddon, and maybe two new leuitenants.

If this is the gathering storm, i imagine we still havent seen the storm.

If you know what i mean.

Don't forget the rumors that Abaddon will be unceremoniously shot in the head and killed by cypher and chaos will run back to the eye again.

Not really. I'm expecting a full overhaul for 8th edition, because the current CSM codex is terrible. Legions helped some Legions, but still left a lot to be desired. What did disappoint me is Cypher turning his coat.

I'm not keen on the return of the primarchs, personally. They were much better kept in the background and in 30k.

I'm still hoping for a new Abaddon model, if we get a triumvirate. I'm not sure if we get one, but eh. Hope is Tzeentch. Tzeentch is hope.

Have people forgotten there was a whole range of new minis for Thousand Sons..not just Magnus

Those minis were great but playing CSM still feels like the game wants you to lose more than your opponent does.

Untill their current baseline playability is raised everything is just not up to par.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
I'm pretty pissed off that in Chaos' big moment all we got was....

Traitor Legions - to try and bring us on part with other armies.
Magnus - who is pretty much unusable to me as a Nurgle player :(

And just when Traitor Legions sort of brought us on par?

Part 1 - dumps one of the most hilariously cheap SCs that can be taken freely in any Imperial Army and a hilariously resilient Ad-Mech character who we're now going to see sitting in every fething conclave we ever see again.

Part 2 - brings us EW Eldar SCs, a better Avatar as one of them and the new faction which basically lets you pick and mix the best Eldar/DE/Harlequinn bits and then freely act outside the normal turn phase, cause that's what they needed, right?

Part 3 - everyone is screaming Girlyman is unusable and ignoring the fact he costs half Magnus' points and is far, far more durable. 2+/3++, T6, 6 wounds, the ability to get back up, all the command traits, immunity to Ld shenanigans and some bloody brilliant weapons? Unusable? He's better than the equivalent cost of Tyranid Carnifexes. He's better than any Daemon Prince I've seen. 2+/3++ with T6 and 6 wounds. Are. You. Fething. Kidding. Me?

Oh, and hey, new models for a GK character and Cypher who has decided to no longer be a Chaos special character despite being in the CSM book in 2nd ed, 3rd ed, a White Dwarf article for CSM in 4th ed and a dataslate listing his faction as CSM in 6th ed.

That's cool. Neat. Watch as he's suddenly no longer available to CSM.

RG also has FnP

Meh you got more stuff than the average non IoM player got. Just look at those poor Tau players getting no love

There is nothing to be bitter about. They release a product and support their 40k range. What is to dislike? It is a great time for 40k even if your specific faction doesn't get a new special flower.

I am thrilled with his rules. Having all the command traits is VERY COOL, and is a great way to show off just how good he is at leading forces. Any army he's in are going to benefit massively from those command traits. His other rules give a lot of great leadership buffs that are a big deal when leading non-Space Marine forces, which is pretty great. Not to mention, he still gets to bring the D and gets back up half the time, every time.

Clue is in the name.

GATHERING Storm.

Bide your time for when the Storm breaks.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Part 3 - everyone is screaming Girlyman is unusable and ignoring the fact he costs half Magnus' points and is far, far more durable. 2+/3++, T6, 6 wounds, the ability to get back up, all the command traits, immunity to Ld shenanigans and some bloody brilliant weapons? Unusable? He's better than the equivalent cost of Tyranid Carnifexes. He's better than any Daemon Prince I've seen. 2+/3++ with T6 and 6 wounds. Are. You. Fething. Kidding. Me?
.

Carnifex's are terrible for their cost and likely many more (Give them above WS3 already!), and he's comparable to a Daemon Prince on Foot.. Which nobody takes, sure he's actually pretty good for his cost but he's walking at infantry speed either firing his S6 H3 or trying to run to combat. I wouldn't go as far as to say unusable like others, but that I'm not expecting to see him in every list. (Watch as I'm proved wrong weeks later)

Magnus can easily outrun him and fly, has a vast variety of blasty spells and ranged S: D and a variety of other factors

 Rippy wrote:
Chaos' big moment. They did it. 10,000 years, and Abaddon has broken the last road block of the warp!
Cadia has fallen. (no guard models)

Hopefully this means that GW has big plans for guard this year. I was surprised that the Fall of Cadia didn't include anything well...Cadian but hopefully it means a new regiment coming out or plastic support for the older regiments.

Some of my friends have been throwing around the thought of Chaos possibly (hopefully) getting a triumvirate, so there's that possibility.
But I'm with you, there's nothing like just getting into the game then finding out that apparently the army you picked was already mediocre, while it feels like everyone else is getting buffed

All I got out of it was a new Celestine model the rest of my armies got nothing-- so really, be grateful. At least Chaos Whiney Marines got SOMETHING.

So here's how I see it.

This is the Gathering Storm. Things are stirring in the warp as it becomes more unstable and storms are erupting. Choas has made it's first move by taking cadia.

Now the Imperium must prepare itself with a second line of defence it never expected to need. Thats what the Gathering Storm is. People preparing for the worst to come. The imperium gathers its heros while the eldar put into motion plans millennia in the making.

And we have still to see the storm itself only the beginning. We may well see Chaos get it's moment once it consolidates its gains from cadia. The orks come in sensing the size of the fight about to spill. And all that biomass in one spot is a dinner bell to the Tyranids.

And then we reach the eye of the storm, a moment of relative calm when new alliances are forged and old ones broken. The fires of the Damocles gulf subside and the tau come in to avenge those that have lost their lives in pursuit of the greater good. More tomb worlds awaken in response to the vast destruction of those still dormant and the loss of the pylons. Maybe even the strange and mysterious dangers of the ghoul stars show themselves in such a period of turmoil and strife to help or hinder any they come across.

What I'm saying is yes you haven't got what you wanted out of the gathering storm, but this may well be just the beginning of something big, for all the factions we have, and possibly those to come/return when least expected.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Part 3 - everyone is screaming Girlyman is unusable and ignoring the fact he costs half Magnus' points and is far, far more durable. 2+/3++, T6, 6 wounds, the ability to get back up, all the command traits, immunity to Ld shenanigans and some bloody brilliant weapons? Unusable? He's better than the equivalent cost of Tyranid Carnifexes. He's better than any Daemon Prince I've seen. 2+/3++ with T6 and 6 wounds. Are. You. Fething. Kidding. Me?
.

Carnifex's are terrible for their cost and likely many more (Give them above WS3 already!), and he's comparable to a Daemon Prince on Foot.. Which nobody takes, sure he's actually pretty good for his cost but he's walking at infantry speed either firing his S6 H3 or trying to run to combat. I wouldn't go as far as to say unusable like others, but that I'm not expecting to see him in every list. (Watch as I'm proved wrong weeks later)

Magnus can easily outrun him and fly, has a vast variety of blasty spells and ranged S: D and a variety of other factors

The big difference between Girlyman and Magnus is simple.

A 140 point Imperial Unit doesn't completely scrap Girlyman. Culexus assassins. How fun.

 HANZERtank wrote:
So here's how I see it.

This is the Gathering Storm. Things are stirring in the warp as it becomes more unstable and storms are erupting. Choas has made it's first move by taking cadia.

Now the Imperium must prepare itself with a second line of defence it never expected to need. Thats what the Gathering Storm is. People preparing for the worst to come. The imperium gathers its heros while the eldar put into motion plans millennia in the making.

And we have still to see the storm itself only the beginning. We may well see Chaos get it's moment once it consolidates its gains from cadia. The orks come in sensing the size of the fight about to spill. And all that biomass in one spot is a dinner bell to the Tyranids.

And then we reach the eye of the storm, a moment of relative calm when new alliances are forged and old ones broken. The fires of the Damocles gulf subside and the tau come in to avenge those that have lost their lives in pursuit of the greater good. More tomb worlds awaken in response to the vast destruction of those still dormant and the loss of the pylons. Maybe even the strange and mysterious dangers of the ghoul stars show themselves in such a period of turmoil and strife to help or hinder any they come across.

What I'm saying is yes you haven't got what you wanted out of the gathering storm, but this may well be just the beginning of something big, for all the factions we have, and possibly those to come/return when least expected.

totally this, this isn't the end, so much as the beginning. I suspect GW's gonna be spending the rest of the year on thigs

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Egil was dead before that, They breifly fleshed him out in Curse of the Wulfen only to kill him in Wrath of Magnus as Logan's meatshield before he got all empowed by Khorne to banish Magnus.

That's probably an even worse fate than Sven, who was at least able to take some of the forces of chaos down with him and force Abaddon to completely change his plan.



I wouldn't say I'm bitter about Fall of Cadia, just disappointed. It killed off the 2nd or 3rd best Space Wolf character that exists (after Bjorn and maybe Krom) and while Chaos did get a solid win for once rather than the Imperium getting a pyrrhic victory everything that's come from it hasn't really been to my taste.

Also Abaddon not getting a new mini is a travesty! (Unless of course he gets a really good update at a later date in a different campaign).

Also the ridiculousness of some the new new rules for the Special Characters just makes me shake my head.

Bjorn and Krom make your one and two? They are pretty low on my list - unless you count Grandpa Bjorn as canon.
Grandpa Bjorn.
Strifeson.
Razortongue.
Ulrik the Slayer.
Sven.
Egil.
Bjorn.
Ranek.
Ragnar.
Krom.
Just about every other Space Wolf.
Grimnar.

so random thought... Bjorn meeting Gulliman... anyone else think that could be an awesome thing to see?

>Chaos finally advancing - WOOO!
But only two factions get any updates and only one of those gets any buffs and the new special character is not as powerful as all that he is bigged up to be.

>Last stand of the Cadians
But the campaign book features no new Guard units, special rules, abilities, no updates to what is ones of the worst armies in the game, no formations for the Guard either. In the meantime Mechanicus and Marines get brand new toys, and a new formation is released that allows for a combined Imperium army which would be useful if it where not for the fact that noone will ever take Guard in it because Guard units are worse than any other option available. Mechanicus get a new special character, Marines get their mary sue back, Eldar get three super special snowflakes and even more super special snowflake rules, Inquisitors get a cool new character, hell the Imperium in general gets a cool new character (Saint Celestine), but the poor bloody Guard get nothing. De nada.... Oh wait sorry, we do get a change: We lose two more of our rapidly vanishing special characters.

Yeah, feth you too GW.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Also the ridiculousness of some the new new rules for the Special Characters just makes me shake my head.

I'm guessing that they're priming us for the next edition being more like AoS in regards to HQ choices. In AoS heroes can't join units, so they have to be really tough as they can be individually targeted.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Egil was dead before that, They breifly fleshed him out in Curse of the Wulfen only to kill him in Wrath of Magnus as Logan's meatshield before he got all empowed by Khorne to banish Magnus.

That's probably an even worse fate than Sven, who was at least able to take some of the forces of chaos down with him and force Abaddon to completely change his plan.



I wouldn't say I'm bitter about Fall of Cadia, just disappointed. It killed off the 2nd or 3rd best Space Wolf character that exists (after Bjorn and maybe Krom) and while Chaos did get a solid win for once rather than the Imperium getting a pyrrhic victory everything that's come from it hasn't really been to my taste.

Also Abaddon not getting a new mini is a travesty! (Unless of course he gets a really good update at a later date in a different campaign).

Also the ridiculousness of some the new new rules for the Special Characters just makes me shake my head.

Bjorn and Krom make your one and two? They are pretty low on my list - unless you count Grandpa Bjorn as canon.
Grandpa Bjorn.
Strifeson.
Razortongue.
Ulrik the Slayer.
Sven.
Egil.
Bjorn.
Ranek.
Ragnar.
Krom.
Just about every other Space Wolf.
Grimnar.

For me most the other Wolf characters are too wolfy and not Viking enough, though I must admit there are a few names on that list I haven't heard off (guessing they're from Black Library novels?)
Ragnar is just below Sven/Krom for me followed by Egil. No clue where I'd put Ulrik, tbh up until the events of CotW I didn't really have an opinion on him (beside that his old metal models is fething awesome).

BrianDavion wrote:
so random thought... Bjorn meeting Gulliman... anyone else think that could be an awesome thing to see?

Pretty sure Bjorn has already met Gulliman as part of Russ' Honour Guard - not a personal meeting, more of in the same room ten thousand years ago.
Still, after hearing the last 10k years of craziness Papa Smurf is going to want to drink something with enough venom to kill a man and nobody makes booze like the Space Mutts - If they still have the recipie for what Russ drank they could probably put Gulliman back in a coma.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
so random thought... Bjorn meeting Gulliman... anyone else think that could be an awesome thing to see?

Pretty sure Bjorn has already met Gulliman as part of Russ' Honour Guard - not a personal meeting, more of in the same room ten thousand years ago.
Still, after hearing the last 10k years of craziness Papa Smurf is going to want to drink something with enough venom to kill a man and nobody makes booze like the Space Mutts - If they still have the recipie for what Russ drank they could probably put Gulliman back in a coma.

ohh I'm sure they've met just not well.. recently, *has this mental image of Gulliman grabbing Bjorn giving him a hug and saying "SOMEONE I KNOW IS STILL ALIVE!"*

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Egil was dead before that, They breifly fleshed him out in Curse of the Wulfen only to kill him in Wrath of Magnus as Logan's meatshield before he got all empowed by Khorne to banish Magnus.

That's probably an even worse fate than Sven, who was at least able to take some of the forces of chaos down with him and force Abaddon to completely change his plan.



I wouldn't say I'm bitter about Fall of Cadia, just disappointed. It killed off the 2nd or 3rd best Space Wolf character that exists (after Bjorn and maybe Krom) and while Chaos did get a solid win for once rather than the Imperium getting a pyrrhic victory everything that's come from it hasn't really been to my taste.

Also Abaddon not getting a new mini is a travesty! (Unless of course he gets a really good update at a later date in a different campaign).

Also the ridiculousness of some the new new rules for the Special Characters just makes me shake my head.

Bjorn and Krom make your one and two? They are pretty low on my list - unless you count Grandpa Bjorn as canon.
Grandpa Bjorn.
Strifeson.
Razortongue.
Ulrik the Slayer.
Sven.
Egil.
Bjorn.
Ranek.
Ragnar.
Krom.
Just about every other Space Wolf.
Grimnar.

For me most the other Wolf characters are too wolfy and not Viking enough, though I must admit there are a few names on that list I haven't heard off (guessing they're from Black Library novels?)
Ragnar is just below Sven/Krom for me followed by Egil. No clue where I'd put Ulrik, tbh up until the events of CotW I didn't really have an opinion on him (beside that his old metal models is fething awesome).

Granpa Bjorn - Google "Storytime with Grandpa Bjorn"
Strifeson - Lukas the Trickster, The Laughing One, Jackalwolf.
Nalfir Razortongue - Bard, gak Stirrer, possibly of the Wyrd, deceased.
Ranek Icewalker - Wolf Priest who discovered Ragnar Blackmane.

Righto, my two cents as a new player coming in now - Which I am

Rewind back to when I first looked at 40k - Eye of Terror was released, and I'd read about the campaign in a couple of White Dwarfs - Chaos was kicking ass, and people were playing games across the world, using cards which determined the entirety of the story (true or not, still damn cool) and mass Chaos vs Universe battles. I can't recall the exact results, but some of the Chaos effects were damn powerful and felt like a true threat.

Fastforward to now - I've read a bit about whats going on, and know the basics. However I see or feel ZERO threat from Chaos currently - Heck, they've barely been mentioned besides "Chaos has destroyed/overwhelmed Cadia, we're all doomed!" followed by silence while we now have three releases to give some sort of hope against this threat....

However I don't see or feel any threat, theres literally nothing thats happened barring Magus in some demon form coming back, while Abandon apparently rek'd house.... but theres no evidence or feeling of things going tits up at all!

So all we have now is "Hey guys, Chaos is destroying the universe and everything is doomed - But we're not gonna say how, showcase it or anything, just believe us its happening - Now here's the potential saviors to stop the threat that you can't see kicking off"

Just feels weird as someone new with a basic knowledge coming into the game... any feelings of "Hey these new guys are cool" is ruined by the fact they are appearing in the hour of need, with no evidence of said hour of need.....

BrianDavion wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
so random thought... Bjorn meeting Gulliman... anyone else think that could be an awesome thing to see?

Pretty sure Bjorn has already met Gulliman as part of Russ' Honour Guard - not a personal meeting, more of in the same room ten thousand years ago.
Still, after hearing the last 10k years of craziness Papa Smurf is going to want to drink something with enough venom to kill a man and nobody makes booze like the Space Mutts - If they still have the recipie for what Russ drank they could probably put Gulliman back in a coma.

ohh I'm sure they've met just not well.. recently, *has this mental image of Gulliman grabbing Bjorn giving him a hug and saying "SOMEONE I KNOW IS STILL ALIVE!"*

And Bjorn responding "I'm honoured you think you know me but you're burning out my servos".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tooooon wrote:
Righto, my two cents as a new player coming in now - Which I am

Rewind back to when I first looked at 40k - Eye of Terror was released, and I'd read about the campaign in a couple of White Dwarfs - Chaos was kicking ass, and people were playing games across the world, using cards which determined the entirety of the story (true or not, still damn cool) and mass Chaos vs Universe battles. I can't recall the exact results, but some of the Chaos effects were damn powerful and felt like a true threat.

Fastforward to now - I've read a bit about whats going on, and know the basics. However I see or feel ZERO threat from Chaos currently - Heck, they've barely been mentioned besides "Chaos has destroyed/overwhelmed Cadia, we're all doomed!" followed by silence while we now have three releases to give some sort of hope against this threat....

However I don't see or feel any threat, theres literally nothing thats happened barring Magus in some demon form coming back, while Abandon apparently rek'd house.... but theres no evidence or feeling of things going tits up at all!

So all we have now is "Hey guys, Chaos is destroying the universe and everything is doomed - But we're not gonna say how, showcase it or anything, just believe us its happening - Now here's the potential saviors to stop the threat that you can't see kicking off"

Just feels weird as someone new with a basic knowledge coming into the game... any feelings of "Hey these new guys are cool" is ruined by the fact they are appearing in the hour of need, with no evidence of said hour of need.....

Three planets given a stomping, lots of homeworlds with minimal protection, lots of Chaos forces unaccounted for. The threat is there - it's not particularly well written though.

 Tooooon wrote:
Righto, my two cents as a new player coming in now - Which I am

Rewind back to when I first looked at 40k - Eye of Terror was released, and I'd read about the campaign in a couple of White Dwarfs - Chaos was kicking ass, and people were playing games across the world, using cards which determined the entirety of the story (true or not, still damn cool) and mass Chaos vs Universe battles. I can't recall the exact results, but some of the Chaos effects were damn powerful and felt like a true threat.

Fastforward to now - I've read a bit about whats going on, and know the basics. However I see or feel ZERO threat from Chaos currently - Heck, they've barely been mentioned besides "Chaos has destroyed/overwhelmed Cadia, we're all doomed!" followed by silence while we now have three releases to give some sort of hope against this threat....

However I don't see or feel any threat, theres literally nothing thats happened barring Magus in some demon form coming back, while Abandon apparently rek'd house.... but theres no evidence or feeling of things going tits up at all!

So all we have now is "Hey guys, Chaos is destroying the universe and everything is doomed - But we're not gonna say how, showcase it or anything, just believe us its happening - Now here's the potential saviors to stop the threat that you can't see kicking off"

Just feels weird as someone new with a basic knowledge coming into the game... any feelings of "Hey these new guys are cool" is ruined by the fact they are appearing in the hour of need, with no evidence of said hour of need.....

There is a great hour of need. The Cadians were the best of the Guard forces and are now decimated, having (maybe) lost one of the best commanders they've ever had. The planet that basically kept the Chaos forces funneled through one specific area of the galaxy in order to come out of the eye is now gone, meaning that they get to come and go as they please now rather than be limited by the Deus Ex Machina functionality of the pylons. The Thousand Sons are now back in real space able to carry out Tzeentch's great plans with even greater efficiency (although I wonder does Prospero being back hurt their time lapse force regeneration shenanigans?). Keep in mind how many worlds are now left with minimal defenses while the Imperium looks to the Eye and other systems focused by the legions right now and then think of the other Xenos threats in the galaxy and what they could possibly do (hello Orkz! and Tyranids!) while the Imperium has to deal with the new threat of the Eye.

All true regarding the threat, but it's always been like that. In the fluff there are always world shattering events and threats. Entire systems or even sectors lost or destroyed etc... they've had it dialed up to 10 for so long now that they've taken it to 11 it's no surprise it's not as big of a deal it maybe seems.

I was ecstatic about traitor legions, even though point costs of comparable loyalist units suck. I was ecstatic about Magnus, even bought a full detachment so I can run 1k sons, even though my DG army is huge.

I was disappointed in the cost of RG. 300 pts cheaper, still hits like a truck, most likely to survive and chance to come back if you do kill him. Magnus could D him with one shot I suppose but is that worth the extra 300 pts, (looking at you Wraithknights)

So overall should we be happy, sure. I mean Mortation is on the black crusade right now so I'm hopefully GW will see the potential cash cow and get something out for us, and I hope to hell Abby doesn't die, since I had just finished my Black Legion detachment. But none the less there is a bit of despair mixed in with happiness. Its quite a duality for a chaos player.

 redleger wrote:
I was ecstatic about traitor legions, even though point costs of comparable loyalist units suck. I was ecstatic about Magnus, even bought a full detachment so I can run 1k sons, even though my DG army is huge.

I was disappointed in the cost of RG. 300 pts cheaper, still hits like a truck, most likely to survive and chance to come back if you do kill him. Magnus could D him with one shot I suppose but is that worth the extra 300 pts, (looking at you Wraithknights)

So overall should we be happy, sure. I mean Mortation is on the black crusade right now so I'm hopefully GW will see the potential cash cow and get something out for us, and I hope to hell Abby doesn't die, since I had just finished my Black Legion detachment. But none the less there is a bit of despair mixed in with happiness. Its quite a duality for a chaos player.

Psyker beat sticks have always been more highly priced then contemporaries without it. long before they announced it I predicted Gulliman would be a good deal cheaper then Magnus as a result.

Some are bitter about Ynnari.

But then again, a few months back some were bitter about Genestealer Cults. Same story over and over, hate on the new stuff.

GodDamUser wrote:
Have people forgotten there was a whole range of new minis for Thousand Sons..not just Magnus

You have missed the point. Please re-read the OP.

More Chaos players whining about not being snowflakey enough. Must be a day that ends in Y again.

Feeling bitter? Hell no! Don't get me wrong some Chaosy models would be cool but the standard of models in the sets are (in my opinion) AWESOME! I didn't have an Eldar army but I do now!

The grey Knights got a character that's kinda worthless when you realize it's 240 points for a T4 model with 3 wounds and no eternal warrior of 3+ invuln.

 Rippy wrote:

GodDamUser wrote:
Have people forgotten there was a whole range of new minis for Thousand Sons..not just Magnus

You have missed the point. Please re-read the OP.

he did but I think he's taking a larger view and seeing GS in a "greater context" GS is intended as it's own trilogy but IMHO it's part of a greater narrative that began with Angel's blade/Traitor's hate, Continued with Curse of the Wolven/Wraith has moved into Gathering storm, and will no doubt continue the rest of the year. 2017 is the "year of the 13th black crusade"

 master of ordinance wrote:
>Chaos finally advancing - WOOO!
But only two factions get any updates and only one of those gets any buffs and the new special character is not as powerful as all that he is bigged up to be.

This, this sums it up.

Chaos seems....mediocre.

Traitor Legions? It's a band aid being stuck onto an ancient Codex. It doesn't really fix the problems for the most part - we're still using a crutch of a system there.

New Thousand Sons? Joy. That's like telling the SM players to be happy for new Thunderwolves. I'm sure your Ultras, DAs and BAs are super happy for Thunderwolves, right? Faction specific and arguably the weakest faction at that.

Magnus...sure, the kit is huge. And faction specific.

And his rules are....sigh.

Well. Ok.

A month later we get more survivability on 200 point Sister and Ad-Mech characters.

2 months later the Eldar come along and get the same new shinies.

Sprinkle in Roboute and Chaos are left scratching their heads.

In terms of Imperial SCs...well...let's look at that shall we.

Since 2nd ed....how many new Imperial SCs have there been compared to Chaos?

Chaos have gotten...Typhus and Lucius. We had Doomrider temporarily but he appears to have disappeared off the face of the Earth. We actually lost all the named Daemon Princes.

Imperials....well. Wow. Ok then.

I can only hope the next 'campaign' actually realises that the antagonists need to seriously be upped to the level of actual antagonists.

Because as it stands - Celestine, Cawl, the Ynnead Triumvirate and Roboute literally crap all over anything Chaos can bring out to play with ease. And GW are trying to tell us that fluffwise CSM are so terrifying it forces an alliance of all those? Are you kidding me?

It literally feels like, current power levels of books compared that CSM are literally just hordes of fodder to die in droves. Traitor Legions was a band-aid. Not a gods damned miracle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jaxler wrote:
The grey Knights got a character that's kinda worthless when you realize it's 240 points for a T4 model with 3 wounds and no eternal warrior of 3+ invuln.

However you can freely slot in any of the Imperial Triumvirate and I bet you'll be able to freely slot in the SM Triumvirate just the same.

So basically GK just got Roboute, Celestine and Cawl if you really want.

New Thousand Sons? Joy. That's like telling the SM players to be happy for new Thunderwolves. I'm sure your Ultras, DAs and BAs are super happy for Thunderwolves, right? Faction specific and arguably the weakest faction at that

actually that's like telling a Imperial fists player to be happy for space Marines getting Gulliman. or telling black templar players to be thrilled with "all the new stuff they got in angels of death" (in fact I'd say it's even less legit as nothing stops a chaos player from using a CAD that mixes in 1k sons alongside khrone bezerkers etc.)

you complaina bout "band aid codex supplements" but whom has gotten a new codex, a genuine new codex, since getting a hard cover codex?

Since 2nd ed....how many new Imperial SCs have there been compared to Chaos?

can't rightly say as I've not been around since 2nd, however I feel a Need to point something out..
Imperium of Man Codices: ~10 (this is approx as some codices you may not count, like Imperial Knights etc)

Chaos Space Marines Codices: 3 (and one is a Hybrid of the two)

so the IoM Having more special characters... KINDA MAKES SENSE.

now let's move onto special characters chaos has gotten since 6th edition (modern 40k more or less) Be'lakor, Cypher (no he's not being lost to chaos) Magnus. and remember it's still early, GW has already said this is gonna be a BIIIG year, and every faction is gonna get something, Chaos hasn't gotten their goodies yetif I was a betting man I'd be betting on more plastic cult troops, and more deamon primarchs.

I personally just wish I got more space marine models then just the triumphant of Gulliman.

 mew28 wrote:
I personally just wish I got more space marine models then just the triumphant of Gulliman.

I honestly can't think of any we really need, other then maybe a space marine terminator commander

I want using a Ynnead worshipping cult as my head canon for my Eldar/DE/Harlies since at least 2015, so I was SUPER stoked by the new releases. I haven't been disappointed at all.

BrianDavion wrote:

you complaina bout "band aid codex supplements" but whom has gotten a new codex, a genuine new codex, since getting a hard cover codex?

SM, Eldar, Imperial Knights.

Want to count the expanded Codexes that include formations etc? Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Chaos Daemons, Tau.

Funny that.

Want to count people who haven't had a new Codex since the start of 6th edition? CSM.

can't rightly say as I've not been around since 2nd, however I feel a Need to point something out..
Imperium of Man Codices: ~10 (this is approx as some codices you may not count, like Imperial Knights etc)

Chaos Space Marines Codices: 3 (and one is a Hybrid of the two)

so the IoM Having more special characters... KINDA MAKES SENSE.

now let's move onto special characters chaos has gotten since 6th edition (modern 40k more or less) Be'lakor, Cypher (no he's not being lost to chaos) Magnus. and remember it's still early, GW has already said this is gonna be a BIIIG year, and every faction is gonna get something, Chaos hasn't gotten their goodies yetif I was a betting man I'd be betting on more plastic cult troops, and more deamon primarchs.

Ok, let's simplify this for you.

2nd ed Ultramarines (SM) - Calgar, Tigurius, Cassius, Helveticus, Invictus, Legion of the Damned
2nd ed. Chaos Space Marines - Abaddon, Kharn, Fabius Bile, Ahriman, Cypher (So he is NOT a new SC you twit), Huron Blackheart

However....

7th ed. Special characters in the base Codex.

7th ed. SM - Calgar, Tigurius, Cassius, Sicarius, Telion, Chronus, Korsarro Khan, Vulkan He'stan, Shrike, Pedro Kanto, Lysander, Grimaldus, Helbrecht, LotD exist as a standard unit type.
6th ed. CSM - Abaddon, Kharn, Fabius Bile, Ahriman, Lucius, Typhus, Huron Blackheart

If you want to include characters from Supplements/Dataslates - Be'lakor, Cypher, Magnus the Red.

Ok. So. Let's look at this.

SM went from 5 Ultra specific characters and a special unit type to... 6 Ultra specific characters, 7 OTHER characters and their special unit type.
CSM went from 6 Characters to... 10 characters but 3 of them are not in the CORE CODEX.

So the Totals are SM +8, CSM +4 - and both are in a single book. Remember, the 2nd ed. Ultra book was the generic SM book. It represented all SMs.

The argument of 'Oh, but the 7th ed book represents different chapters' is bullgak as the CSM book has ALWAYS represented different Legions.

And this is just comparing the core books. Just the core books for the factions. Not factoring DA, BA or SW - technically those are seperate books and existed as such since 2nd ed.

'Oh, but CSM have 2 campaign supplements and 3 other supplements!'

Sure. Ok.

Black Legion - reprinted in Traitor Legions. Nothing more than a fluffbook.
Crimson Slaughter - the generic crappy 'Renegade' chapter no one wanted. Seriously. They didn't exist before 6th ed. This should have be Red Corsairs.

Traitor's Hate - reprinted entirely (with the exception of the Renegade Knight) in Traitor Legions.
Wrath of Magnus - Thousand Sons rules reprinted in Traitor Legions one week later

The Traitor Astartes powers (which are identical to the Imperial Counterparts, just with EEEEEEEVIL names) have been printed in 3 books so far.

And you really can't compare Thousand Sons releases to Black Templars players with Angels of Death.

Because as far as I can tell - BT players got Warlord Traits, can still use the Cataphractii and Contemptor and can still use every formation presented in that book (nothing saying those formations are X only).

Now, want to look at Thousand Sons?

Let's count Legions from Traitor's hate that can make the most of those new Thousand Sons!

Thousand Sons - Black Legion, Thousand Sons.
Scarab Occult - Black Legion, Thousand Sons
Magnus the Red - Thousand Sons.

But hey, let's look at those FANTASTIC DATASLATE CHARACTERS too. What Legions can use those?

Cypher - NONE
Be'lakor - NONE

Funny, my 'chapter tactic' equivalents put restrictions on my basic army construction.

Heck, let's look at the formations....

Wait, a third of them are Black Legion only, another third are Thousand Sons only and 2 of them are Emperor's Children or Death Guard only.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

Do we know for sure that Cypher can't be used in a CSM army? Has anyone seen the book, are there restrictions?

Sorry if I am just catching up on this. I still have the Cypher dataslate and some Dark Angels models I used to use. Would love to know if they are no longer useful.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Do we know for sure that Cypher can't be used in a CSM army? Has anyone seen the book, are there restrictions?

Sorry if I am just catching up on this. I still have the Cypher dataslate and some Dark Angels models I used to use. Would love to know if they are no longer useful.

Cypher essentially has to be taken with his formation to be tacked on to any of the Traitor Legions armies - and even then as a seperate detachment. As they all exclude Unique characters except for X, Y and Z in some cases.

The Fallen Angels faction is, oddly, battle brothers with CSM and Imperium but only AoC with Renegade Knights and Come the Apocalypse with Daemons.

Also - we're not sure yet whether Fallen will still be CSM Chosen (as per the dataslate) or will now be built as DA Veterans (since GW are pushing the DA Veteran kit as Fallen on the website which has armaments that CSM can't take (Storm Shields and Storm Bolters for starters)).

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

you complaina bout "band aid codex supplements" but whom has gotten a new codex, a genuine new codex, since getting a hard cover codex?

SM, Eldar, Imperial Knights.

Also Dark Angels, and arguably Tau as well (even if the rules were basically a reprint of the old codex for the most part combined with the changes and additions form the 1st Campaign book).

Funny, my 'chapter tactic' equivalents put restrictions on my basic army construction.

this is differant from SM chapter tactics... how?

Also traitor's hate does have a slightly differant detachment, not reprinted elsewhere. not that important but useful in some circumnstances

I don't mind something like the primarch running around. It's that he's the same price as a daemon prince that gets me, not to mention the points in comparison to knights too (compared to both).

Just gonna sit and patiently await a new Necron release, I'm sure it'll be done in time.

BrianDavion wrote:

Funny, my 'chapter tactic' equivalents put restrictions on my basic army construction.

this is differant from SM chapter tactics... how?

How?

Well, for starters half the Traitor Legions 'chapter tactic equivalents' force you to take a Mark and prevent you from taking any units that have a different mark or cannot take that mark.
A good chunk of the other half cannot take any Marks or any Marked units.

There are no such restrictions on SM Chapter Tactics.

You pick your Chapter Tactic. You apply it to the army. The end. It doesn't prevent you from taking certain units. It doesn't force a mandatory points purchase across the entire army - and by the same respect it doesn't prevent you from making optional purchases/

Are you really that oblivious?

 ChazSexington wrote:
What did disappoint me is Cypher turning his coat.

Did he actually turn his coat? He has almost always been available as an option for DA and chaos armies simultaneously, so his allegiance has always been a question mark.

Im not bitter, I have just been totally put off reading the books.
Its really not my cup of tea this recent stuff, seems like no thought has gone into it.

Luckily for me there is plenty of other books to be getting on with.

They still make some nice miniatures that I will be buying as well.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Funny, my 'chapter tactic' equivalents put restrictions on my basic army construction.

this is differant from SM chapter tactics... how?

How?

Well, for starters half the Traitor Legions 'chapter tactic equivalents' force you to take a Mark and prevent you from taking any units that have a different mark or cannot take that mark.
A good chunk of the other half cannot take any Marks or any Marked units.

There are no such restrictions on SM Chapter Tactics.

You pick your Chapter Tactic. You apply it to the army. The end. It doesn't prevent you from taking certain units. It doesn't force a mandatory points purchase across the entire army - and by the same respect it doesn't prevent you from making optional purchases/

Are you really that oblivious?

wait so I could take crusader squads on my ultramarines all this time!?

for the record I have a sizeable iron warrior force, and it includes khrone bezekrers among em (I started with the battle force) so yeah sometimes the restirctions suck, but at the same time they seem to make sense. for people who are running fluffy armies I suspect traitor legions was pretty much "all good" as the limits they had self imposed anyway

BrianDavion wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Funny, my 'chapter tactic' equivalents put restrictions on my basic army construction.

this is differant from SM chapter tactics... how?

How?

Well, for starters half the Traitor Legions 'chapter tactic equivalents' force you to take a Mark and prevent you from taking any units that have a different mark or cannot take that mark.
A good chunk of the other half cannot take any Marks or any Marked units.

There are no such restrictions on SM Chapter Tactics.

You pick your Chapter Tactic. You apply it to the army. The end. It doesn't prevent you from taking certain units. It doesn't force a mandatory points purchase across the entire army - and by the same respect it doesn't prevent you from making optional purchases/

Are you really that oblivious?

wait so I could take crusader squads on my ultramarines all this time!?

for the record I have a sizeable iron warrior force, and it includes khrone bezekrers among em (I started with the battle force) so yeah sometimes the restirctions suck, but at the same time they seem to make sense. for people who are running fluffy armies I suspect traitor legions was pretty much "all good" as the limits they had self imposed anyway

I see you are going with the drawing very thin straws approach there and trying to be anal retentive when you know full well what I mean.

You're really no longer worth the discussion.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
>Chaos finally advancing - WOOO!
But only two factions get any updates and only one of those gets any buffs and the new special character is not as powerful as all that he is bigged up to be.

This, this sums it up.

Chaos seems....mediocre.

Traitor Legions? It's a band aid being stuck onto an ancient Codex. It doesn't really fix the problems for the most part - we're still using a crutch of a system there.

New Thousand Sons? Joy. That's like telling the SM players to be happy for new Thunderwolves. I'm sure your Ultras, DAs and BAs are super happy for Thunderwolves, right? Faction specific and arguably the weakest faction at that.

Magnus...sure, the kit is huge. And faction specific.

And his rules are....sigh.

Well. Ok.

A month later we get more survivability on 200 point Sister and Ad-Mech characters.

2 months later the Eldar come along and get the same new shinies.

Sprinkle in Roboute and Chaos are left scratching their heads.

In terms of Imperial SCs...well...let's look at that shall we.

Since 2nd ed....how many new Imperial SCs have there been compared to Chaos?

Chaos have gotten...Typhus and Lucius. We had Doomrider temporarily but he appears to have disappeared off the face of the Earth. We actually lost all the named Daemon Princes.

Imperials....well. Wow. Ok then.

I can only hope the next 'campaign' actually realises that the antagonists need to seriously be upped to the level of actual antagonists.

Because as it stands - Celestine, Cawl, the Ynnead Triumvirate and Roboute literally crap all over anything Chaos can bring out to play with ease. And GW are trying to tell us that fluffwise CSM are so terrifying it forces an alliance of all those? Are you kidding me?

It literally feels like, current power levels of books compared that CSM are literally just hordes of fodder to die in droves. Traitor Legions was a band-aid. Not a gods damned miracle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jaxler wrote:
The grey Knights got a character that's kinda worthless when you realize it's 240 points for a T4 model with 3 wounds and no eternal warrior of 3+ invuln.

However you can freely slot in any of the Imperial Triumvirate and I bet you'll be able to freely slot in the SM Triumvirate just the same.

So basically GK just got Roboute, Celestine and Cawl if you really want.

so what your saying is that imperium players get to run kaldor Draigo with their Death Stars, yes? Right now grey Knights have only 3 reasonably priced units. Kaldor, librarians, and dreadknights, and Liberians are better when they're normal marines. I'm sorry, I know it's easy to freely put in cawl or Celestine, but in the end you already are using custodians instead of paladins, tac squads over strike squads, and devistators over purginators space marine assault termies over grey knight ones, and what your left with is is a space marine armies with dreadknights tax and kaldor and a librarian, you might wonder why your even playing grey Knights.

I just thought for once grey Knights might get a unit that isn't overpriced to the point of being crap, but I was wrong, and I'm bitter because of it. It's not like GW could try to fix codex kaldor's baby carrier service. Apperently "elite" stands for a 3rd too many points overcosted to be viable.

And then 8th edition aka AGE OF PRIMARCHS! !!!

Am I bitter? Of course I am. I am a Chaos player at heart. Gathering storm just buffed units that didnt need buffs. You had Mechanicus getting buffed, you have imperial death stars getting buffed (celestine) you have inquisitor i have a bolter crossbow greyfax and you get a primarch. you also get two super detachments and one of our chaos characters. Eldar literally got so overly overpowered that i get salty every time i look at competitve lists. Bare in mind that I am a competitve player. Fluff to me doesnt matter in terms of gameplay. Chaos needed a buff. We chaos players have the right to complain because you imperials have always been served rules on a golden platter (get it?) we had to scrape the bottom of the barrel to even think about competing to tourneys. Hell, you imperials can mix units. we can only mix units with different legion tactics, we cant mix daemons in with our marines (except for KDK but thats not what we wanted) yea sure your black templars and your sisters didnt get the buff they needed and i understand that. But our competitve viability as a codex in general is extremely mono build. I thank GW for their expanding of the plot and their new policies but i need more from them in terms of army stuff. Where are the tyranids? DE? SoB? instead we get rowboat gurlyman (although i love his fluff) and mister overpriced grey knight. Dont even get me started on the reborn warhost. I love this game. I love Chaos and its so hard for me to put it down because of mono builds. Sorry for ranting. IRON WITHIN IRON WITHOUT

 -v10mega wrote:
Am I bitter? Of course I am. I am a Chaos player at heart. Gathering storm just buffed units that didnt need buffs. You had Mechanicus getting buffed, you have imperial death stars getting buffed (celestine) you have inquisitor i have a bolter crossbow greyfax and you get a primarch. you also get two super detachments and one of our chaos characters. Eldar literally got so overly overpowered that i get salty every time i look at competitve lists. Bare in mind that I am a competitve player. Fluff to me doesnt matter in terms of gameplay. Chaos needed a buff. We chaos players have the right to complain because you imperials have always been served rules on a golden platter (get it?) we had to scrape the bottom of the barrel to even think about competing to tourneys. Hell, you imperials can mix units. we can only mix units with different legion tactics, we cant mix daemons in with our marines (except for KDK but thats not what we wanted) yea sure your black templars and your sisters didnt get the buff they needed and i understand that. But our competitve viability as a codex in general is extremely mono build. I thank GW for their expanding of the plot and their new policies but i need more from them in terms of army stuff. Where are the tyranids? DE? SoB? instead we get rowboat gurlyman (although i love his fluff) and mister overpriced grey knight. Dont even get me started on the reborn warhost. I love this game. I love Chaos and its so hard for me to put it down because of mono builds. Sorry for ranting. IRON WITHIN IRON WITHOUT

As a guard player I would like to point out that we got nothing, unless you count the loss of two more of our rapidly dwindling special characters.
[edit]
And this was supposed to be our big moment as well, the last stand of the Cadians. But nope, Marines got stuff, Eldar got stuff, Mechanicus got stuff but all we got was the loss of two more characters. At least you got SOMETHING.

You got castellans of the imperium and a bunch of new characters to put in your IG list. Honest question, I cant remember what we got. Seriously my memory is pretty bad. But i understand your pain, im just saying that GW has buffed the wrong people. Gathering storm should have buffed SoB and IG (maybe templars too). But I want chaos super detachment (who wouldn't?) that would be really nice.

 -v10mega wrote:
You got castellans of the imperium and a bunch of new characters to put in your IG list. Honest question, I cant remember what we got. Seriously my memory is pretty bad. But i understand your pain, im just saying that GW has buffed the wrong people. Gathering storm should have buffed SoB and IG (maybe templars too).

We got Cawl, Greyfax, and Celestine. We don't know how Guilliman or Voldus work, and Cypher has always been able to be taken by non-Dark Angels Imperial armies.

Also, saying "you got Castellans of the Imperium" is ignoring the fact that it has a mandated requirement that you take choices from two different codices.

But I want chaos super detachment (who wouldn't?) that would be really nice.

It's called "Traitor Legions". It contains super detachments for each of the Traitor Legions.

 -v10mega wrote:
You got castellans of the imperium and a bunch of new characters to put in your IG list. Honest question, I cant remember what we got. Seriously my memory is pretty bad. But i understand your pain, im just saying that GW has buffed the wrong people. Gathering storm should have buffed SoB and IG (maybe templars too). But I want chaos super detachment (who wouldn't?) that would be really nice.

Guard got the biggest shaft in all of this. Chaos at least got Magnus and a bunch of new splat books. Guard got new units if you include taking guys that are strictly non-Guard as "new units".

Guard really should have been the shining moment of this event, so if anyone gets to feel left out, it's the Guard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 -v10mega wrote:

But I want chaos super detachment (who wouldn't?) that would be really nice.

It's called "Traitor Legions". It contains super detachments for each of the Traitor Legions.

Especially because a lot of those detachments are really, really damn good.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 -v10mega wrote:
You got castellans of the imperium and a bunch of new characters to put in your IG list. Honest question, I cant remember what we got. Seriously my memory is pretty bad. But i understand your pain, im just saying that GW has buffed the wrong people. Gathering storm should have buffed SoB and IG (maybe templars too). But I want chaos super detachment (who wouldn't?) that would be really nice.

Guard got the biggest shaft in all of this. Chaos at least got Magnus and a bunch of new splat books. Guard got new units if you include taking guys that are strictly non-Guard as "new units".

Guard really should have been the shining moment of this event, so if anyone gets to feel left out, it's the Guard

I won't lie. I was a bit grumpy at first about the lack of Guard characters. But then after awhile, I came to peace with it.

Why?
Because Guard having unique characters is a pain in the butt. We don't get an option to field "just" Creed or "just" Kell as it stands right now. We have to take the Company Command Squad and then we pay to upgrade one of the models within it to Creed or Kell or whoever.

I would much rather, if they're going to force me into something like that, they give me the whole squad as the points cost.

Example:
Commander Tim, Savior of Chumbawumba. Known for his place at the front of the combat, Tim is an officer who rose through the ranks from an artillery background. He and his Command Squad lead the Tubthumpers into battle, taking position after position with his Scion bodyguards and his trusty Ogryn Dave, before raining artillery fire down on the next position.
Commander Tim comes with his trusted command squad.
Unit Composition: 10 models(Tim and his 8 man Scion Command Squad with a Master of Ordnance and Dave, Tim's trusty Ogryn)
Scion Vox-Caster(Hot-Shot Lasgun)
Master of Ordnance(Lasgun)
Dave(Slab Shield and Grenadier Gauntlet)
Scions x2(Hot-Shot Lasguns)
Scion Medic
Scions x3 (Special weapons; only optional bits in the unit as Tim's Scions draw weapons that are needed before battle)

That's the kind of officer purchase I can get behind for IG.

 Jaxler wrote:

I just thought for once grey Knights might get a unit that isn't overpriced to the point of being crap, but I was wrong, and I'm bitter because of it. It's not like GW could try to fix codex kaldor's baby carrier service. Apperently "elite" stands for a 3rd too many points overcosted to be viable.

Hey, I just thought for once that Chaos might actually get buffed to 7th ed. levels and actually pose a threat.

Because looking at what we've seen for Super Smurf, Celestine and Cawl I kind of wonder....

How exactly is Chaos a threat again?

I mean, let's put all our special characters on the field.

And watch the CSM flail and fall down in droves because apparently neither Kharn (who survived the Siege of Terra after being run over by a land raider and having a palace wall collapse on him), Lucius (you know, the guy who never dies) or Typhus (who happens to be the Host of THE Destroyer Plague that crippled even a Primarch) deserve Eternal Warrior or some ability to stand back up....

Magnus also forgot what Power Armour was. Silly Maggie.

Meanwhile we get a flying bint who can cry her gal pals back to life and keep getting up herself and has Eternal Warrior and Super Smurf, who's tougher than necessary with a 2+/3++ T6 and 6 wounds AND Eternal Warrior who can also get himself back up.

Then you have the Ynnari, consisting of Eldar No-Names who suddenly decided to become plot relevant and all also happen to have Eternal Warrior as well.

Oh, let's not forget that everyone and their dog found their At Initiative AP 2 weapons with some ID and SD tacked on for shiggles.


I'm honestly wondering if they set up a 100k per side battle how Chaos would survive to Turn 3. I really am.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Example:
Commander Tim, Savior of Chumbawumba. Known for his place at the front of the combat, Tim is an officer who rose through the ranks from an artillery background. He and his Command Squad lead the Tubthumpers into battle, taking position after position with his Scion bodyguards and his trusty Ogryn Dave, before raining artillery fire down on the next position.
Commander Tim comes with his trusted command squad.

Ok sir. This I could get behind.

Commander Tim will save the day. I call it now.

8th ed = Warhammer 40,000 : Age of Tim

With all of the Eldar factions in the recent campaign book, they'll all be in the same mega-codex when 8th hits. Isn't that what happened with AoS hit?

Nope.

 Skinnereal wrote:
With all of the Eldar factions in the recent campaign book, they'll all be in the same mega-codex when 8th hits. Isn't that what happened with AoS hit?

Kinda/sorta?

What we got was two things:
1) "Legacy" lists. These were the downloadable PDFs that still retained their old names; Wood Elves, High Elves, Dark Elves, whatever. Those are still available if you know how to find them.
2) "Grand Alliance" lists. This is where things got different. The Grand Alliance books were softcover books containing everything from the Legacy lists, but altered. High Elves became several different factions with units spread throughout. Order Draconis(Dragonlords, Dragon Blades[renamed Dragon Princes of Caledor]), Eldritch Council(Swordmasters, Loremaster, Archmages+Archmage on Dragon), Swifthawk Agents(Shadow Warriors, Chariots, Skycutters), Lion Rangers(White Lions and Lion Chariots), and Phoenix Temple.

I think it is rather telling that if someone looks at the Fallen ally table?

You have "Dark Eldar, Eldar, Harlequins, and Ynnari". That matches relatively closely to the way that AoS does "keywords". It's not unbelievable that we might see them getting subdivided into something like:

Dark Eldar->Wych Cults(Wyches, Succubi, Venoms, Beastmasters+ beasts) , Spies & Messengers(Scourges and Mandrakes), Speedsters(Hellions & Reavers plus aircraft), Kabalites(Warriors, Archons, Raiders, Ravagers)

Eldar->Wraith, Outcasts(Rangers), Warrior Paths(Phoenix Lords and their temples), Militia (War Walkers, Guardians, Fire Prisms/Falcons), Seer Path(Warlocks & Farseers)

Effectively it would be the same army potential, but it lets them do bonuses for specific keywords.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Jaxler wrote:

I just thought for once grey Knights might get a unit that isn't overpriced to the point of being crap, but I was wrong, and I'm bitter because of it. It's not like GW could try to fix codex kaldor's baby carrier service. Apperently "elite" stands for a 3rd too many points overcosted to be viable.

Hey, I just thought for once that Chaos might actually get buffed to 7th ed. levels and actually pose a threat.

Because looking at what we've seen for Super Smurf, Celestine and Cawl I kind of wonder....

How exactly is Chaos a threat again?

I mean, let's put all our special characters on the field.

And watch the CSM flail and fall down in droves because apparently neither Kharn (who survived the Siege of Terra after being run over by a land raider and having a palace wall collapse on him), Lucius (you know, the guy who never dies) or Typhus (who happens to be the Host of THE Destroyer Plague that crippled even a Primarch) deserve Eternal Warrior or some ability to stand back up....

Magnus also forgot what Power Armour was. Silly Maggie.

Meanwhile we get a flying bint who can cry her gal pals back to life and keep getting up herself and has Eternal Warrior and Super Smurf, who's tougher than necessary with a 2+/3++ T6 and 6 wounds AND Eternal Warrior who can also get himself back up.

Then you have the Ynnari, consisting of Eldar No-Names who suddenly decided to become plot relevant and all also happen to have Eternal Warrior as well.

Oh, let's not forget that everyone and their dog found their At Initiative AP 2 weapons with some ID and SD tacked on for shiggles.


I'm honestly wondering if they set up a 100k per side battle how Chaos would survive to Turn 3. I really am.

Seriously, have you looked at the Traitor Legion detachments? Yeah, Guilliman, Cawl, and Celestine are tough, but you can lock them down with waves of fearless cultists, the thing CSM has been doing for years.

If you're just comparing straight up special characters, then yeah, CSM lose hard. But look at the new Traitor Legion detachments and how crazy powerful some of them would be at 100k.

I believe there are another 3 gathering storm books in the works, and I'll be more than surprised if chaos doesn't get a triumvirate.

Hey, at least the Fallen faction is battle brothers with Chaos Space Marines. So you do actually get Cypher.

But I'm just hoping after the 'gathering' storm 8th edition is going to drop the ACTUAL storm, and that's when they'll release a new wave (possible codex) of chaos. If they don't then they'll be shooting themselves in the foot.

Seriously if 8th edition drops and its just more marine gak people will freak out like we've never before seen.

I mean, sure, maybe a little bit.

Pales in comparison to the grousing I've seen about it online. That has, by far, been the most unpleasant part of this whole thing. People have been going on about how the sky is falling and Age of Sigmar is upon us for every release in the past two years, I do not look forward to the kind of frenzy they're going to whip themselves into when 8th edition finally does drop.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
I mean, sure, maybe a little bit.

Pales in comparison to the grousing I've seen about it online. That has, by far, been the most unpleasant part of this whole thing. People have been going on about how the sky is falling and Age of Sigmar is upon us for every release in the past two years, I do not look forward to the kind of frenzy they're going to whip themselves into when 8th edition finally does drop.

I hope 8th drops, everyone freaks out, and we can pick up a lot of armies for cheap


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Don Savik wrote:
Hey, at least the Fallen faction is battle brothers with Chaos Space Marines. So you do actually get Cypher.

But I'm just hoping after the 'gathering' storm 8th edition is going to drop the ACTUAL storm, and that's when they'll release a new wave (possible codex) of chaos. If they don't then they'll be shooting themselves in the foot.

Seriously if 8th edition drops and its just more marine gak people will freak out like we've never before seen.

"A new wave (possible codex) of chaos"

"just more marine gak"

I mean, they're starting to get away from that, but CSM has been getting a ton of marine hand me downs.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 -v10mega wrote:
You got castellans of the imperium and a bunch of new characters to put in your IG list. Honest question, I cant remember what we got. Seriously my memory is pretty bad. But i understand your pain, im just saying that GW has buffed the wrong people. Gathering storm should have buffed SoB and IG (maybe templars too). But I want chaos super detachment (who wouldn't?) that would be really nice.

Guard got the biggest shaft in all of this. Chaos at least got Magnus and a bunch of new splat books. Guard got new units if you include taking guys that are strictly non-Guard as "new units".

Guard really should have been the shining moment of this event, so if anyone gets to feel left out, it's the Guard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 -v10mega wrote:

But I want chaos super detachment (who wouldn't?) that would be really nice.

It's called "Traitor Legions". It contains super detachments for each of the Traitor Legions.

Especially because a lot of those detachments are really, really damn good.

Magnus and Traitor Legions were not gathering storm good friend. I am STRICTLY speaking about gathering storm. ps. Decurions does not equal super detachment (castellens)
you got a new detachment that you can purely choose to play as imperial guard, whats stopping you? imagine recycling vets and recycling valkyries or blob guard that can also be recycled. you can run obsec lemun russes with coteaz. We get failbaddon the armless getting punked by celestine. What a victory!

My first and largest army(s) is Chaos both marines and daemons.
I am pretty much used to getting the shaft.

Oddly, I have been rather excited about these Triumvirate kits, the models just scream "challenge accepted".
Cypher makes me very happy going turncoat on me or not.
Voldus will sit nicely with my other GK guys, it is nice to have a powerful leader that is not stuck in the warp (I wanted something to fight my chaos... they were getting out of hand).
As to Girlyman? Big model, nice detail, there is nothing wrong with having a go with that model.
Archmagos Cawl is enough to get me cross-eyed but I think he will be the most challenging to get right.

The game is pretty unbalanced as it stands, so dialing it up to stupid levels is to expected right?

More marine stuff meaning space marines, not csm. Hand-me-downs isn't good enough at this point. Chaos still has garbage options for transports compared to the rest of the armies who evolved. Only one flier, outdated chaos space marine models, really really outdated havocs, outdated bikers, outdated chaos lords/sorcerers, etc etc. Their model range is just old.

At least give them an assault vehicle that's not a landraider. Then maybe people would take khorne berserkers.

 -v10mega wrote:

Magnus and Traitor Legions were not gathering storm good friend. I am STRICTLY speaking about gathering storm. ps. Decurions does not equal super detachment (castellens)

Then be more specific. "Super Detachment" is a term commonly used as a substitute for Decurion.

Also, I really think you need to actually read Traitor Legions.

you got a new detachment that you can purely choose to play as imperial guard, whats stopping you? imagine recycling vets and recycling valkyries or blob guard that can also be recycled. you can run obsec lemun russes with coteaz.

You do know that Coteaz isn't Imperial Guard, right?

And that Castellans of the Imperium specifically requires you to have units from at least two different factions, right?
You cannot have a "purely" Imperial Guard army. Read the book.

We get failbaddon the armless getting punked by celestine. What a victory!

You get:
-Cadian Gate forced open
-Daemons corrupting a flipping Craftworld
-The Imperium, Eldar, and Mechanicus having to come together to revive a Primarch--on Macragge which is under siege by the Black Legion.

It's cute, of course, to talk about "Failbaddon the Armless" but it's not cute to have no clue what you're talking about.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 -v10mega wrote:

Magnus and Traitor Legions were not gathering storm good friend. I am STRICTLY speaking about gathering storm. ps. Decurions does not equal super detachment (castellens)

Then be more specific. "Super Detachment" is a term commonly used as a substitute for Decurion.

Also, I really think you need to actually read Traitor Legions.

you got a new detachment that you can purely choose to play as imperial guard, whats stopping you? imagine recycling vets and recycling valkyries or blob guard that can also be recycled. you can run obsec lemun russes with coteaz.

You do know that Coteaz isn't Imperial Guard, right?

And that Castellans of the Imperium specifically requires you to have units from at least two different factions, right?
You cannot have a "purely" Imperial Guard army. Read the book.

We get failbaddon the armless getting punked by celestine. What a victory!

You get:
-Cadian Gate forced open
-Daemons corrupting a flipping Craftworld
-The Imperium, Eldar, and Mechanicus having to come together to revive a Primarch--on Macragge which is under siege by the Black Legion.

It's cute, of course, to talk about "Failbaddon the Armless" but it's not cute to have no clue what you're talking about.

Don't bother. No matter how much good stuff CSM get, they will always be bad. Meanwhile, Dark Eldar and Orks cry alone in the corner.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Funny, my 'chapter tactic' equivalents put restrictions on my basic army construction.

this is differant from SM chapter tactics... how?

How?

Well, for starters half the Traitor Legions 'chapter tactic equivalents' force you to take a Mark and prevent you from taking any units that have a different mark or cannot take that mark.
A good chunk of the other half cannot take any Marks or any Marked units.

There are no such restrictions on SM Chapter Tactics.

You pick your Chapter Tactic. You apply it to the army. The end. It doesn't prevent you from taking certain units. It doesn't force a mandatory points purchase across the entire army - and by the same respect it doesn't prevent you from making optional purchases/

Are you really that oblivious?

'
Wow your complaining about needing to pay for your chapter tactics when your models are cheaper by base and have way stronger chapter tactics for the most part. Also Chapter tactics dose stop you from taking units that are unqiue to the other chapter tactics. Let me know when I can run Cato in my Iron hands or thunder wolfs in my blood angels.

You can run Thunder Wolves with Blood Angels. Just ally them in.

And even with Traitor Legions, CSM are weaker than SM.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 -v10mega wrote:

Magnus and Traitor Legions were not gathering storm good friend. I am STRICTLY speaking about gathering storm. ps. Decurions does not equal super detachment (castellens)

Then be more specific. "Super Detachment" is a term commonly used as a substitute for Decurion.

Also, I really think you need to actually read Traitor Legions.

you got a new detachment that you can purely choose to play as imperial guard, whats stopping you? imagine recycling vets and recycling valkyries or blob guard that can also be recycled. you can run obsec lemun russes with coteaz.

You do know that Coteaz isn't Imperial Guard, right?

And that Castellans of the Imperium specifically requires you to have units from at least two different factions, right?
You cannot have a "purely" Imperial Guard army. Read the book.

We get failbaddon the armless getting punked by celestine. What a victory!

You get:
-Cadian Gate forced open
-Daemons corrupting a flipping Craftworld
-The Imperium, Eldar, and Mechanicus having to come together to revive a Primarch--on Macragge which is under siege by the Black Legion.

It's cute, of course, to talk about "Failbaddon the Armless" but it's not cute to have no clue what you're talking about.

Don't bother. No matter how much good stuff CSM get, they will always be bad. Meanwhile, Dark Eldar and Orks cry alone in the corner.

Alright feth logic! I can joke about Failbaddon all i want. He has a stupid backstory, stupid model and stupid motives. No one that is a chaos worshipper cares for Failbaddon (to my knowledge) I have read traitor legions and my average is a c+ at most. We get buffs to the cabal star and thats it. I am talking from a competitve standpoint i see no viability in Traitor Legions. You can polish a turd but at the end of the day it is still a turd. You get castellans and put coteaz in. Thats one non IG model for your entire army. I get it, IG got fethed and i know your a little salty that the CSM guys are whining but remember that our kit line, our viability is a lot less. You have the beauty of having the best allies in the game. We cant even join units with our battle brothers (Chaos Daemons). Traitor Legions was a buff but competitively speaking we didnt get much out of it. And by competitve, i mean the top 1% of players who are WAAC players like me. (here comes the flak) btw i arrange competitve games i dont suddenly bring a cheesy list to a friendly game. But you did get me on the Castellans thing so ill give you that.

 JNAProductions wrote:
You can run Thunder Wolves with Blood Angels. Just ally them in.

And even with Traitor Legions, CSM are weaker than SM.

That's not the point he's getting at though.

The argument for a long while has been about the "superfriends" lists. That got shanked by the last round of FAQs, where placing any non-Chapter Tactic model in with Chapter Tactics units removes the CT.

Ex:
Thunderwolf mounted Iron Priest joins a unit of White Scars Bikers. They now lose their Chapter Tactic, where before it granted to the Iron Priest.

 JNAProductions wrote:
You can run Thunder Wolves with Blood Angels. Just ally them in.

And even with Traitor Legions, CSM are weaker than SM.

That honestly remains to be seen. Nurgle units get a massive boost, and Magnus is a giant force multiplier, in the way Bel'akor is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 -v10mega wrote:
I get it, IG got fethed and i know your a little salty that the CSM guys are whining

Oh man, ain't that the truth. Spell check is your friend.

^ you're

sorry

Magnus is not a Force Multiplier like Bel'akor is. Bel'akor has buffs. Magnus does not-Magnus needs support, Bel'akor doesn't, as much.

Bel'akor is overpriced for what he does, he is also super squishy and anyone (with the right tools) can take him down. Just a little bit of ignore cover... Magnus is good but thats all you see in CSM. Nurgle is good but with all the Grav thats going on we get our FnP and thats it. Our toughness and armor go away.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Magnus is not a Force Multiplier like Bel'akor is. Bel'akor has buffs. Magnus does not-Magnus needs support, Bel'akor doesn't, as much.

And Magnus and Bel'akor are nowhere near as potent Force Multipliers as...say...Roboute, Celestine, Cawl or the Yncarne.

For one Canticles, Blessing, Command Traits and Buff Bubbles don't require having the right amount of warp charge dice, being able to use them and not being screwed by, say, a 140 point Assassin stood nearby having a sandwich.

Force multiplier for who exactly? Certainly Celestine isn't much of one for Sisters, but that's because Sisters start from such a low place to begin wtih.

Celestine is easily one of the best units in the game. I will argue that she is one of the best HQs in the game. She has a crazy amount of modifiers.

 Kanluwen wrote:
You get:
-Cadian Gate forced open
-Daemons corrupting a flipping Craftworld
-The Imperium, Eldar, and Mechanicus having to come together to revive a Primarch--on Macragge which is under siege by the Black Legion.

It's cute, of course, to talk about "Failbaddon the Armless" but it's not cute to have no clue what you're talking about.

So what you're saying is that Chaos should be happy that they get fluff?

Because Fluff = Tabletop Performance, right?

Actually, that's the main reason I'm bitter.

People can harp that Chaos have it so good in the fluff but that doesn't hold up in the slightest on the table. Hell, you've got these supplements with new models and chances to fix the damn book with each one, or perhaps bring some of the SCs up on par....and they instead stick another bandage on a battered book still running on the overpriced model of early 6th edition.

Traitor Legions - yes, I love it. I appreciate it. I feel it literally came 1 and three-quarter editions too late. It doesn't fix the artificial points bloat CSM has. It doesn't fix the mandatory challenges, that god awful boon table which stripped Chaos' options away from it or the fact that Chaos still falls behind.

Even with Traitor Legions - we're still middle tier at best. We don't hold to War Convocations (free upgrades across the board, including Grav). We don't hold to the underpointed Tau Triptide spam or the underpointed Eldar Scatbike-Hornet-Warp Hunter-WK standard. We don't hold to anything that has Grav.

And yeah, there are several Imperial armies in the same hole.

AM need a hell of a lot - they're in the same bad spot as Tyranids - the Cruddace Hole.
GKs and DW are both expensive elite armies without the durability.
Sisters are begging for an actual range.

But the Gathering Storm and the way the Triumvirates work has given them an in. For their points costs Cawl and Celestine are just dirty. The fact they can freely slot into any CAD or similar design detachment is also somewhat dirty.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
Force multiplier for who exactly? Certainly Celestine isn't much of one for Sisters, but that's because Sisters start from such a low place to begin wtih.

For any Imperial Army.

She can be taken as a HQ for ANY Imperial army. Not great if you're using a decurion style detachment but if using a CAD or equivalent or a small allied force...well...

Her blessings affect all Imperial units as well. They're not Sisters only. Same as Cawl's Archmagos Canticles. Add to that the fact she's remarkably resilient and can keep coming back she's also a great combat sponge for armies that don't like combat.

If anything her only downside is her Warlord Trait. But then, at least it isn't Typhus levels of awful (woo, Fear.)

Yeah, I'm out. It's like arguing with a brick wall that can't use spell check.

Suffice it to say, if Cawl, Celestine, or Guilliman start showing up in LVO and BAO lists that are in the Top 10, I will personally come back and reverse my position.

Likewise, I'm interested to see if the same can be said for Magnus, because this is already the case for Bel'akor.

I'm annoyed that the rules for a few units are in these books, so Like in the case of the triumerant of the imperium $90 for 3 models (albeit cool models) plus $50 book to use them. I get it on full codex books being $50, but I am salty at needing the book to use a handful of models (I mean one could download illegally, but that is a whole other conversation of risk vs reward, morality etc)

 -v10mega wrote:
Celestine is easily one of the best units in the game. I will argue that she is one of the best HQs in the game. She has a crazy amount of modifiers.

And?

Sisters armies already barely have enough firepower to contend with modern armies to begin with, and she doesn't really add any more. She can make an S8 large blast appear once per game, has an S5 powersword, and a heavy flamer. Aside from that, she has some buffs and functions as a tarpit.

Which is nice and all. A powerful, durable character. But when you're starting with an army that's weak enough as it is already, a force multiplier doesn't really have much to work with.

Or to sum it up mathematically, 3*2=6, whereas 3*4=12.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Yeah, I'm out. It's like arguing with a brick wall that can't use spell check.

Suffice it to say, if Cawl, Celestine, or Guilliman start showing up in LVO and BAO lists that are in the Top 10, I will personally come back and reverse my position.

Likewise, I'm interested to see if the same can be said for Magnus, because this is already the case for Bel'akor.

Magnus actually did well at an event recently - but that's largely using the formation of Daemon Princes and him to channel on 3+ with really cheap Tzeentch daemon allies.

I can easily see Cawl being a pick for the War Convocation as he can be taken in place of the Dominus and is an even better meat shield for Grav toting Kataphrons.

Super Smurf - well, he's basically a Daemon Prince with buffs up the wazoo. Not too sure what at the moment will benefit him - we'll need to see how easily he slots into things (i.e. can he substitute a Captain/Chapter Master in formations?) If he can I should imagine he might slide nicely into anything that gives ObSec. ObSec Super Smurf. Have fun getting that off an objective.

 -v10mega wrote:
Am I bitter? Of course I am. I am a Chaos player at heart. Gathering storm just buffed units that didnt need buffs. You had Mechanicus getting buffed, you have imperial death stars getting buffed (celestine) you have inquisitor i have a bolter crossbow greyfax and you get a primarch. you also get two super detachments and one of our chaos characters. Eldar literally got so overly overpowered that i get salty every time i look at competitve lists. Bare in mind that I am a competitve player. Fluff to me doesnt matter in terms of gameplay. Chaos needed a buff. We chaos players have the right to complain because you imperials have always been served rules on a golden platter (get it?) we had to scrape the bottom of the barrel to even think about competing to tourneys. Hell, you imperials can mix units. we can only mix units with different legion tactics, we cant mix daemons in with our marines (except for KDK but thats not what we wanted) yea sure your black templars and your sisters didnt get the buff they needed and i understand that. But our competitve viability as a codex in general is extremely mono build. I thank GW for their expanding of the plot and their new policies but i need more from them in terms of army stuff. Where are the tyranids? DE? SoB? instead we get rowboat gurlyman (although i love his fluff) and mister overpriced grey knight. Dont even get me started on the reborn warhost. I love this game. I love Chaos and its so hard for me to put it down because of mono builds. Sorry for ranting. IRON WITHIN IRON WITHOUT

I don't see this entirely as a rant, most people don't seem to appreciate exactly how OP GW has made Eldar this time around.

Ynnari are absolute beasts at this point. I watched a battle report on Miniwargaming this morning where someone used them to destroy a Space Wolves army.

https://www.miniwargaming.com/content/Ynnari-vs-Space-Wolves-Warhammer-40k-Battle-Report-Ep-100

(the site is currently down, but it will come back up.)

The Ynnari force ate up 7 drop pods worth of Space Wolves by turn 3. The Imperial Knight was the only unit left for the last 2 turns of the game. I was watching the game wondering how anything could win against this army, this was not a matter of unfortunate rolls so much as unfortunate rules.

Thinking if Ultramarines have made the same jump in power with Gathering Storm, it's going to be a very bleak picture for CSMs. Hoping that the Fallen Detachment Cypher comes with may offer a little relief, but not expecting much.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Yeah, I'm out. It's like arguing with a brick wall that can't use spell check.

Suffice it to say, if Cawl, Celestine, or Guilliman start showing up in LVO and BAO lists that are in the Top 10, I will personally come back and reverse my position.

Likewise, I'm interested to see if the same can be said for Magnus, because this is already the case for Bel'akor.

Brah you are here ti talk about figurines not to critique people's grammar. Good god I tried sympathizing with you. Oh well.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Yeah, I'm out. It's like arguing with a brick wall that can't use spell check.

Suffice it to say, if Cawl, Celestine, or Guilliman start showing up in LVO and BAO lists that are in the Top 10, I will personally come back and reverse my position.

Likewise, I'm interested to see if the same can be said for Magnus, because this is already the case for Bel'akor.

Magnus actually did well at an event recently - but that's largely using the formation of Daemon Princes and him to channel on 3+ with really cheap Tzeentch daemon allies.

I can easily see Cawl being a pick for the War Convocation as he can be taken in place of the Dominus and is an even better meat shield for Grav toting Kataphrons.

Super Smurf - well, he's basically a Daemon Prince with buffs up the wazoo. Not too sure what at the moment will benefit him - we'll need to see how easily he slots into things (i.e. can he substitute a Captain/Chapter Master in formations?) If he can I should imagine he might slide nicely into anything that gives ObSec. ObSec Super Smurf. Have fun getting that off an objective.

I think Magnus would stack well with the Thousand Sons, but you're right, unfortunately he just does better with the Tzeentch Daemons (because they needed a buff).

Cawl I'm still unsure on, I don't know Ad Mech rules enough to see if he can truly elevate them to top tier status.

Guilliman definitely seems strong, but I'm worried he'll have the same problems the Great Unclean One does: slow, can be locked down easily.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 -v10mega wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Yeah, I'm out. It's like arguing with a brick wall that can't use spell check.

Suffice it to say, if Cawl, Celestine, or Guilliman start showing up in LVO and BAO lists that are in the Top 10, I will personally come back and reverse my position.

Likewise, I'm interested to see if the same can be said for Magnus, because this is already the case for Bel'akor.

Brah you are here ti talk about figurines not to critique people's grammar. Good god I tried sympathizing with you. Oh well.

"Brah" it's hard to take your critiques seriously when you can't even spellcheck.

Like I said you are here to talk with people about toys. No idea why you are critiquing me for my spell check abilities and not my arguments but ok have it your way. Oh and i do use spell check so i don't know whats the problem here.

Quick general reminder to all - please just report any posts that you feel are against the rules of the site.

Other than that...

 JNAProductions wrote:
You can run Thunder Wolves with Blood Angels. Just ally them in.

And even with Traitor Legions, CSM are weaker than SM.

That's no longer a BA list. The BA themselves are irrelevant at that point.

 -v10mega wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Yeah, I'm out. It's like arguing with a brick wall that can't use spell check.

Suffice it to say, if Cawl, Celestine, or Guilliman start showing up in LVO and BAO lists that are in the Top 10, I will personally come back and reverse my position.

Likewise, I'm interested to see if the same can be said for Magnus, because this is already the case for Bel'akor.

Brah you are here ti talk about figurines not to critique people's grammar. Good god I tried sympathizing with you. Oh well.

I like your grammar. It is expressive more than declarative and entirely appropriate for expressing the passion you are trying to convey. As a fellow Chaos player, your thoughts mirror my private ones.

@ OP: I am actually surprised that GW tries to force customers to buy three different minis at once with these Gathering Storm boxes. It would have been more sensible to sell the minis separately. So another opportunity to generate revenue was missed.

ERJAK wrote:
More Chaos players whining about not being snowflakey enough. Must be a day that ends in Y again.

Wow that was constructive, thanks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Strg Alt wrote:
@ OP: I am actually surprised that GW tries to force customers to buy three different minis at once with these Gathering Storm boxes. It would have been more sensible to sell the minis separately. So another opportunity to generate revenue was missed.

Yeah, I have seen alot of people splitting the boxes, including my local GW store manager!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tooooon wrote:

Fastforward to now - I've read a bit about whats going on, and know the basics. However I see or feel ZERO threat from Chaos currently - Heck, they've barely been mentioned besides "Chaos has destroyed/overwhelmed Cadia, we're all doomed!" followed by silence while we now have three releases to give some sort of hope against this threat....

exactly this! They had a kind of Victory at Fenris (and I don't care how the Wolves suffered, it was hardly a win), and now they are not the focus of their own victory.

Yes, you can call me a special snowflake chaos (like old mate above), though imagine if your faction was having it's big moment, and the opposite faction got 6 new characters/models!!!

 Rippy wrote:

 Tooooon wrote:

Fastforward to now - I've read a bit about whats going on, and know the basics. However I see or feel ZERO threat from Chaos currently - Heck, they've barely been mentioned besides "Chaos has destroyed/overwhelmed Cadia, we're all doomed!" followed by silence while we now have three releases to give some sort of hope against this threat....

exactly this! They had a kind of Victory at Fenris (and I don't care how the Wolves suffered, it was hardly a win), and now they are not the focus of their own victory.

Yes, you can call me a special snowflake chaos (like old mate above), though imagine if your faction was having it's big moment, and the opposite faction got 6 new characters/models!!!

And yet imagine how the Guard feel, not even being represented on their own planet....

Come, friend-commiserate with us all! Guard players are getting the shaft too.

Sorry coming in late here.. DarkStarSabre seems to be full of the hurts..

The big thing that I found annoying is he comparison of 2nd Ed Codex with Current, You cannot really compare the two in any sense they are completely different games set in the same story setting.

And you seem to be getting angry because during all the Gathering Storm and the prelude Fenris Burns there have been a lot of things released for Choas Marines... Just not the things you wanted.

While in the same case.. any Spacemarine player who doesn't play Ultramarines are in a very similar place.

Cypher is also BB to Imperial and Choas Marines (just be using no daemons)
and if I read right can just be taken as a single model in a detachment for either faction

Right, because the non UM Space Marines didn't get access to Celestine, or Cawl, or Greyfax, or Castellans of the Imperium.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Right, because the non UM Space Marines didn't get access to Celestine, or Cawl, or Greyfax, or Castellans of the Imperium.

Well if you want to get technical about it... EVERYONE can used them, their usefulness to your list though will vary

But if you have a look at these characters while they are good they will not always synergize with your list set up and not worth taking

And your point? You can't deny they're very good characters (especially Celestine), but not fitting into every single list doesn't remove that.

Just because you can't use literally everything doesn't mean it gets annoying when the Imperium (well, more just Space Marines and their derivatives) get all the goodies, and Chaos (and hell, even Imperium stuff like Guard or Xenos like Nids) get left with scraps from the table.

I personally wasn't denying that. I was just denying the idea that they were effetive force multipliers for ALL armies that could take them.

But the Choas did get some goodies, Look at Magnus he is a good character, Traitor Legions is also good for people who want to play a Legion list.

Just because you didn't get what you wanted for yourself doesn't mean it isn't a good thing.

While there are a lot of tears here from Chaos players who actually got stuff, there are a lot of races who haven't gotten anything other then Fluff


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It is also a numbers things.

Chaos Spacemarines are just them and their Chapters.

the Imperium has Spacemarines (and chapters), Imperial Guard, Sisters of Battle and the Mechanicum (which then can be split down)

So here they are releasing Models and rules for 4 factions over 1

Magnus, usable by one legion if you care in the slightest about fluff, and forces you to take an extra CAD if you don't care about fluff, and runs best with Tzeentch Daemons. Not CSM.

Legions, which are admittedly, pretty nice. But not as good as Chapter Tactics.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Magnus, usable by one legion if you care in the slightest about fluff, and forces you to take an extra CAD if you don't care about fluff, and runs best with Tzeentch Daemons. Not CSM.

Legions, which are admittedly, pretty nice. But not as good as Chapter Tactics.

He is a LOW why does he force you to take a extra CAD, there is nothing in his rules that say you have to take him in a Thousands Sons list

Then you aren't playing as any Legion except Thousand Sons, or just no legion at all.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Then you aren't playing as any Legion except Thousand Sons, or just no legion at all.

So you have been saying that only Thousands Sons can use Magnus... But any Imperial can use all of the others?

That just doesn't make sense

Any chapter tactics can slot in Celestine, Cawl, Greyfax, or use Castellans.

If you want to actually use Legion rules, you HAVE TO be Thousand Sons-every other legion restricts what unique characters you can take.

GodDamUser wrote:
Sorry coming in late here.. DarkStarSabre seems to be full of the hurts..

Would you like me to play the 1980s Superman music for you? Find a phone booth for you to change in while we're at it? Since you seem to be presenting yourself as a hero.

The big thing that I found annoying is he comparison of 2nd Ed Codex with Current, You cannot really compare the two in any sense they are completely different games set in the same story setting.

You're right. Comparing two factions over the period of 5 editions to show how one faction has spiralled radically beyond the other is clearly just out of order. I mean, hey, it's just like that newfangled Evolution theory Darwin was touting in the 1800s, that wily old rascal!

And you seem to be getting angry because during all the Gathering Storm and the prelude Fenris Burns there have been a lot of things released for Choas Marines... Just not the things you wanted.

Ok. Let's look at new Chaos releases again.

Kharn - resculpt of ancient character model. I would point out that Calgar got his Resculpt in 4th edition and I would sensibly chuckle and point out that Celestine also technically got a resculpt as well. Only her model was from late 3rd edition, not mid 2nd edition like Kharn.
Ahriman - see Kharn.
Thousand Sons - Oh look, they redid a very specific kit for a very specific Legion to bring it from Finecast hybrid to Plastic. Hey look, the models replaced were older than Celestine.
Scarab Occult - Ok, you got me there. The first new unit in 4 years. Oh, wait. They happen to be...very Legion specific.

While in the same case.. any Spacemarine player who doesn't play Ultramarines are in a very similar place.

Ah yes, you're right. I forgot that Imperial Space Marines were languishing in terms of releases. I mean, their basic kit...how old is that now? What's that Timmy? It was released in 3rd, retooled for 4th, retooled again for 5th and redone entirely for 6th?!

Meanwhile the CSM kit.... was released in 3rd ed. Retooled for 4th..........and we're waiting.

Cypher is also BB to Imperial and Choas Marines (just be using no daemons)
and if I read right can just be taken as a single model in a detachment for either faction

He's also Come the Apocalypse to KDK. So to even take Cypher in an ITC build as a CSM player.... you literally sacrifice KDK, Be'lakor and Chaos Daemons. Do you know how hard that hits CSM on a competitive level?

But let's not fret Superman.

I mean, your statement about other SMs being upset with the Gathering Storm releases....

Hmm.

HMM.

Do your chapter tactics actively prevent you from taking these characters in a detachment? No, they don't.

You read Traitor Legions yet? You read the restrictions each Legion has?

An Imperial Fist, Raven Guard or Ultramarine detachment can all take Celestine or Cawl as a HQ choice. The detachment still counts being Imp Fists/Raven Guard/Ultras so all the units in it still get their benefits.

Now try that with a Chaos Traitor Legions detachment.

Wait.

You can't. Cypher's not permitted to be taken in any of the Legion lists. You're dipping into a seperate detachment/formation to bring him along. 'Oh but you can just slot him in as a HQ.' At which point the detachment is no longer considered a Traitor Legion detachment so loses all the bonuses associated.

Imagine losing your Chapter Tactics across an entire detachment just because you put Celestine in. Wait, you can't.

I don't personally own the books, but of what I have seen I wonder why they didn't split the rules space more evenly between the "bad guys" and the "good guys". At the very least, why wasn't an updated Abbadon released, since the 1st book was clearly his shining moment (and ya'll have no idea how much I hate CSM/daemons)?

Also, the whole series rubs me the wrong way - 40K is changing in tone, and in a way I'm not quite fond of. They're bringing Hope and super-heroic characters to a setting whose two defining memes used to be "Hope is the first step on the road to disapointment" and "But the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed".

BTW comparing Magnus to Gulliman is proably a bad idea, other then being Primarchs they don't have a lot in common, Magnus is a "pyskic power house" Gulliman is "Calgar on steroids"

DarkStarSabre

Your issue here is that you want to paly your favorite army in a competitive setting.. which is nice and all, But you are also choosing to paly a game buy a company that has on numerous occasions said that it doesn't give 2 gaks about the competitive.

GW is about making money, and Spacemarines and the Imperium in general are the bigger sellers so will receive the most attention.

Unfortunately this isn't a place where you can have your cake and eat it to.

And while if you want Cypher you will have to sacrifice all of your deamons, (well not really as CoA doesn't overly effect much in the way of gameplay unless the event prohibits it)
Dark Angles cant go around using him or Girlyman, without doing some shuffling about with their lists.

If you want your fun army make a fun army, If you want a Competitive army go get a different army.. And that's the thing with competitive is that if you want to play it proper you are going to have to build new armies on a semi regular basis as new rules and releases happen or just flavor of the month tactics change

Nah, not bitter. I never really expect anything CSM get is going to be very good, if we get anything at all. Kind of a bad attitude, I'll admit, but anything good is a pleasant surprise.

Traitor Legions was cool, but what we need is a codex update. I don't expect any new units until that happens. Even if we get new models, I expect copy + pasted rules (Thousand Sons Rubricae, other than the upgrades, for example).

13th Crusade isn't gonna take Terra, and isn't gonna kill Guilliman. Have no expectation of that happening whatsoever. Cadia getting blown open was cool, if unimpressive in the events that were involved.

Whatever. I'm still happy with the game and the setting. Maybe one day I'll get rules for 40k skullcrushers. Until then I'll play my KDK/World Eaters and be happy.

What army do you play, GDU?

 JNAProductions wrote:
What army do you play, GDU?

Pretty sure at this point it doesn't matter.

He's come in to attempt to lecture. And revealed that not only does he not understand what he's lecturing on but apparently has no idea what the competitive meta is at the moment either.

But hey, he got his Superman moment, right?

I mean I personally find the legion rules alot better then chapter tactics. Relentless +1 T and +1 on your FnP and save at the cost of 1I and two points a guy if you compare death gaured to Iron hand one of the better chapter tactics. I would also like to add unlike death guard Iron hands has no non forge world SC.

 JNAProductions wrote:
What army do you play, GDU?

I mainly played Tyranids, but now with Genestealer Cult out I am starting them up

Done a fair bit of tournament play with my Tyranids, but have always reframed from builds that I found boring.. i.e. Dakkaflyrants and Dakafex, and have always had a preference for swarm lists.

That being said I haven't played any major tourney for about a year and a half.. last one I do go to I took a Fun list of Tyranids, Eldar and Deamons was a barrel of laughs and placed well

 mew28 wrote:
I mean I personally find the legion rules alot better then chapter tactics. Relentless +1 T and +1 on your FnP and save at the cost of 1I and two points a guy if you compare death gaured to Iron hand one of the better chapter tactics. I would also like to add unlike death guard Iron hands has no non forge world SC.

RAW Necrosius cannot be taken in a Death Guard army either. It specifically excludes all unique characters bar Typhus.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 mew28 wrote:
I mean I personally find the legion rules alot better then chapter tactics. Relentless +1 T and +1 on your FnP and save at the cost of 1I and two points a guy if you compare death gaured to Iron hand one of the better chapter tactics. I would also like to add unlike death guard Iron hands has no non forge world SC.

RAW Necrosius cannot be taken in a Death Guard army either. It specifically excludes all unique characters bar Typhus.

this is where until FW FAQs it (hopefully they will) common sense will need to be applied. the reason they very specificly limited characters they way they did was as a stop gap. on PAPER CSMs don't have chapter tactics, (in this case we're talking a specific trait to diffrentiate between whose what legion etc) unlike loyalist marines, so I understand why they did it. hopefully we'll see a 8th edition chaos marine codex and they can turn VOTLW into a proper chapter tactics, and then give characters specific ones like abbaddon gets "VOTLW: Black legion" etc

apparently this isn't the 13th black crusade

Cause apparently the 13th black crusade is going to come much MUCH later

in the words of tenacious D " This is just a tribute"

mchammadad wrote:
apparently this isn't the 13th black crusade

Cause apparently the 13th black crusade is going to come much MUCH later

in the words of tenacious D " This is just a tribute"

Well these are still preludes to the Crusade.. (So still hope for a new Abaddon mini.. no idea why they haven't done one).. Now Cadia has fallen the gates are open for Chaos to sweep across the galaxy

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Rippy wrote:

 Tooooon wrote:

Fastforward to now - I've read a bit about whats going on, and know the basics. However I see or feel ZERO threat from Chaos currently - Heck, they've barely been mentioned besides "Chaos has destroyed/overwhelmed Cadia, we're all doomed!" followed by silence while we now have three releases to give some sort of hope against this threat....

exactly this! They had a kind of Victory at Fenris (and I don't care how the Wolves suffered, it was hardly a win), and now they are not the focus of their own victory.

Yes, you can call me a special snowflake chaos (like old mate above), though imagine if your faction was having it's big moment, and the opposite faction got 6 new characters/models!!!

And yet imagine how the Guard feel, not even being represented on their own planet....

Yeah I mentioned this in OP as well, it must be very frustrating.

wht's the bet that abbadon is going to become a daemon prince?

GodDamUser wrote:
Sorry coming in late here.. DarkStarSabre seems to be full of the hurts..

The big thing that I found annoying is he comparison of 2nd Ed Codex with Current, You cannot really compare the two in any sense they are completely different games set in the same story setting.

And you seem to be getting angry because during all the Gathering Storm and the prelude Fenris Burns there have been a lot of things released for Choas Marines... Just not the things you wanted.

While in the same case.. any Spacemarine player who doesn't play Ultramarines are in a very similar place.

Cypher is also BB to Imperial and Choas Marines (just be using no daemons)
and if I read right can just be taken as a single model in a detachment for either faction

Hello GodDamUser, you must be new to people's opinions. Just because I said I am personally bitter at Chaos' releases during this period, doesn't mean that non Ultramarine SM players can't feel bitter either.

That same argument can be applied here anyway; I am not a Thousand Sons player.

Your Cypher argument is just arguing for the sake of it? He is returning as a hero for the Imperium. He is just a new model for something Chaos had already.

Let me be bitter!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mchammadad wrote:
wht's the bet that abbadon is going to become a daemon prince?

Slim to none


Automatically Appended Next Post:

GodDamUser wrote:

mchammadad wrote:
apparently this isn't the 13th black crusade

Cause apparently the 13th black crusade is going to come much MUCH later

in the words of tenacious D " This is just a tribute"

Well these are still preludes to the Crusade.. (So still hope for a new Abaddon mini.. no idea why they haven't done one).. Now Cadia has fallen the gates are open for Chaos to sweep across the galaxy

Potential spoiler

I know I tend to not buy into the rumors until it happens.

And the screen shot of the of the Dramatis Personae from the Warhammer Community page has a distinct lack of Abaddon on it. So I will be saying Abaddon dying here is a dud

GodDamUser wrote:
I know I tend to not buy into the rumors until it happens.

And the screen shot of the of the Dramatis Personae from the Warhammer Community page has a distinct lack of Abaddon on it. So I will be saying Abaddon dying here is a dud

I am the same, though I was simply providing a possibility as to why they didn't use this opportunity to release a new abby.

GodDamUser wrote:

While in the same case.. any Spacemarine player who doesn't play Ultramarines are in a very similar place.

remember UMs didn't get their own unique detachment, warlord traits etc in AoD

 Kanluwen wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 -v10mega wrote:
You got castellans of the imperium and a bunch of new characters to put in your IG list. Honest question, I cant remember what we got. Seriously my memory is pretty bad. But i understand your pain, im just saying that GW has buffed the wrong people. Gathering storm should have buffed SoB and IG (maybe templars too). But I want chaos super detachment (who wouldn't?) that would be really nice.

Guard got the biggest shaft in all of this. Chaos at least got Magnus and a bunch of new splat books. Guard got new units if you include taking guys that are strictly non-Guard as "new units".

Guard really should have been the shining moment of this event, so if anyone gets to feel left out, it's the Guard

I won't lie. I was a bit grumpy at first about the lack of Guard characters. But then after awhile, I came to peace with it.

Why?
Because Guard having unique characters is a pain in the butt. We don't get an option to field "just" Creed or "just" Kell as it stands right now. We have to take the Company Command Squad and then we pay to upgrade one of the models within it to Creed or Kell or whoever.


Example:
Commander Tim, Savior of Chumbawumba. Known for his place at the front of the combat, Tim is an officer who rose through the ranks from an artillery background. He and his Command Squad lead the Tubthumpers into battle, taking position after position with his Scion bodyguards and his trusty Ogryn Dave, before raining artillery fire down on the next position.
Commander Tim comes with his trusted command squad.
Unit Composition: 10 models(Tim and his 8 man Scion Command Squad with a Master of Ordnance and Dave, Tim's trusty Ogryn)
Scion Vox-Caster(Hot-Shot Lasgun)
Master of Ordnance(Lasgun)
Dave(Slab Shield and Grenadier Gauntlet)
Scions x2(Hot-Shot Lasguns)
Scion Medic
Scions x3 (Special weapons; only optional bits in the unit as Tim's Scions draw weapons that are needed before battle)

That's the kind of officer purchase I can get behind for IG.

Totally agree that IG unique characters are too expensive for what you get, especially after tabulating the expense of the command squad. Jeez!

BrianDavion wrote:

GodDamUser wrote:

While in the same case.. any Spacemarine player who doesn't play Ultramarines are in a very similar place.

remember UMs didn't get their own unique detachment, warlord traits etc in AoD

Considering the amount of unique stuff you have in the main SM rulebook, I'm not feeling very sorry for the UM players.

 JNAProductions wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

GodDamUser wrote:

While in the same case.. any Spacemarine player who doesn't play Ultramarines are in a very similar place.

remember UMs didn't get their own unique detachment, warlord traits etc in AoD

Considering the amount of unique stuff you have in the main SM rulebook, I'm not feeling very sorry for the UM players.

Also when you factor in the Mail order only formations Ultramarines do get the most (but then again is their biggest selling product line)

GodDamUser wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

GodDamUser wrote:

While in the same case.. any Spacemarine player who doesn't play Ultramarines are in a very similar place.

remember UMs didn't get their own unique detachment, warlord traits etc in AoD

Considering the amount of unique stuff you have in the main SM rulebook, I'm not feeling very sorry for the UM players.

Also when you factor in the Mail order only formations Ultramarines do get the most (but then again is their biggest selling product line)

which formations are those?

I don't feel bitterness towards GW about this latest turn in the game.

I stopped feeling ANYTHING about the game rules/background 5 or so years ago. Now I only occasionally get 2nd hand models that pop up that I like the look of, to paint up or light up, nothing more.

I get my gaming jollies elsewhere these days.

I am thinking Skyhammer and such.. but then again they were not UM specific

GodDamUser wrote:
I am thinking Skyhammer and such.. but then again they were not UM specific

and where aprt of the Iron Hands and Imperial Fists "decurions"

Well, since I collect Tau and Salamanders I really got nothing so far that catches my interest. But I presume that they will eventually release stuff for them so until then Gathering Storm gets a resounding "meh" from me.

Three big-box releases for the Gathering Storm {oh look, new big existential threat coming)

none of the new models in those boxes are the actual threat

they done goofed. geederps!

Not enough IG, too much SM, IMO.

The rumor is after gathering storms that chaos will get their own triumphvirate which I hope has DP Morty, new Abaddon, and someone else. (Not too sure) If this happens it would be amazing, but the love is going to legion that's doing just fine aka DG. Atleast we'd be getting a DP right?

There have been leaks that Tyranids, Orks, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights will be getting their own campaigns after 8th drops.

I think if you're upset because these first books don't help your army, that's a bit misguided. Or were you expecting them to overhaul every codex at the same time?

 Marmatag wrote:
There have been leaks that Tyranids, Orks, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights will be getting their own campaigns after 8th drops.

I think if you're upset because these first books don't help your army, that's a bit misguided. Or were you expecting them to overhaul every codex at the same time?

What about the Guard, AKA the faction that got literally nothing in our own campaign book(s)

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
There have been leaks that Tyranids, Orks, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights will be getting their own campaigns after 8th drops.

I think if you're upset because these first books don't help your army, that's a bit misguided. Or were you expecting them to overhaul every codex at the same time?

What about the Guard, AKA the faction that got literally nothing in our own campaign book(s)

Mont'ka--Cadian detachment, relics, superheavies, and formations.
Red Waagh! vol 1--Steel Host and Rampart Detachment
Leviathan vol. 1--nothing beyond fluff
Fall of Cadia--nothing beyond fluff and allied characters.

Half of the campaign books where Guard featured heavily, they got something directly for them.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
There have been leaks that Tyranids, Orks, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights will be getting their own campaigns after 8th drops.

I think if you're upset because these first books don't help your army, that's a bit misguided. Or were you expecting them to overhaul every codex at the same time?

What about the Guard, AKA the faction that got literally nothing in our own campaign book(s)

Mont'ka--Cadian detachment, relics, superheavies, and formations.
Red Waagh! vol 1--Steel Host and Rampart Detachment
Leviathan vol. 1--nothing beyond fluff
Fall of Cadia--nothing beyond fluff and allied characters.

Half of the campaign books where Guard featured heavily, they got something directly for them.

I'm sure "got something" is in reference to models, not formations.

Calling it now. Chaos gathering will be the last book. Then 8th a month after invalidating half the book. Then CSM will be the second release of 8th and the first release in a "tone down" effort only for said effort to be abbandoned with the new eldar/sm/tau release. It is done. I have finally become a crusty old chaos player. The world def needed more of us

40k Players: "We want change!"
GW: "Here!"
40k Players: "We didn't want THAT change!"

A tale as old as time...

Table wrote:
Calling it now. Chaos gathering will be the last book. Then 8th a month after invalidating half the book. Then CSM will be the second release of 8th and the first release in a "tone down" effort only for said effort to be abbandoned with the new eldar/sm/tau release. It is done. I have finally become a crusty old chaos player. The world def needed more of us

Oh you!
I had serious flashbacks from what you said!
The best jokes (and lies) have some truth to them... this more than most.
I am pretty much at the stage of yelling at kids to get off my lawn so being grumpy is becoming second nature.
I am trying to find happiness in the pretty models... who cares that they have no influence in improving my ineffective forces.
Oh, a new Abaddon/Bile/Typhus is what I want in my stocking.

Table wrote:
Calling it now. Chaos gathering will be the last book. Then 8th a month after invalidating half the book. Then CSM will be the second release of 8th and the first release in a "tone down" effort only for said effort to be abbandoned with the new eldar/sm/tau release. It is done. I have finally become a crusty old chaos player. The world def needed more of us

Agreed with the 3rd book being the last book (of 7th) and leading into 8th and invalidating what was before BUT - I don't think they are going to release CSM as a Codex. I think they are going to do away with Codexes entirely.

 cvtuttle wrote:

Table wrote:
Calling it now. Chaos gathering will be the last book. Then 8th a month after invalidating half the book. Then CSM will be the second release of 8th and the first release in a "tone down" effort only for said effort to be abbandoned with the new eldar/sm/tau release. It is done. I have finally become a crusty old chaos player. The world def needed more of us

Agreed with the 3rd book being the last book (of 7th) and leading into 8th and invalidating what was before BUT - I don't think they are going to release CSM as a Codex. I think they are going to do away with Codexes entirely.

Doesn't change CSM being 'toned down' as part of a new 'direction' only to be conveniently forgotten when the Holy Trinity of Tau/Eldar/SM come up for rules writing 2 months later....

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
There have been leaks that Tyranids, Orks, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights will be getting their own campaigns after 8th drops.

I think if you're upset because these first books don't help your army, that's a bit misguided. Or were you expecting them to overhaul every codex at the same time?

What about the Guard, AKA the faction that got literally nothing in our own campaign book(s)

Mont'ka--Cadian detachment, relics, superheavies, and formations.
Red Waagh! vol 1--Steel Host and Rampart Detachment
Leviathan vol. 1--nothing beyond fluff
Fall of Cadia--nothing beyond fluff and allied characters.

Half of the campaign books where Guard featured heavily, they got something directly for them.

I'm sure "got something" is in reference to models, not formations.

I think not giving Guard any new characters in the Trimvirate was deliberate choice, and it seems weird but I've been doing some thinking and... narritively makes sense, introducing a new guard character (beyond the fact that the trimvirates tend to be powerful super human chars, IE not guard) would by necessity divert the attention away from Creed, who deserves the spotlight. introducing a plastic kit for creed would also be a bit weird if they killed him off (we dunno if he has effectively been killed off or not yet, this way at least preserves some suprise)



regarding a chaos Trimvirate, I hope we don't get one. I hope INSTEAD we get trimvirates for some of the sub factions therein. a "Trimvirate of the black legion" a trimvirate of the night lords. etc.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 cvtuttle wrote:
Doesn't change CSM being 'toned down' as part of a new 'direction' only to be conveniently forgotten when the Holy Trinity of Tau/Eldar/SM come up for rules writing 2 months later....

Weren't Tau considered bad for quite a while, and only in the last couple editions got overpowered? I read that several times, but I'm just repeating what other people have written and wouldn't really know myself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
regarding a chaos Trimvirate, I hope we don't get one. I hope INSTEAD we get trimvirates for some of the sub factions therein. a "Trimvirate of the black legion" a trimvirate of the night lords. etc.

There are nine original traitor legions*, would three triumvirates work? Each with a character from a different legion.

If they did a triumvirate for each leach that would take the rest of the year, unless they really stepped up their release schedule.

*I'm not counting traitors who didn't get caught, like the Dark Angels, or mutant aberrations like the Space Wolves and Blood Angels. Also, I'm rounding up, since it would be 8.5 traitor legions when accounting for the Alpha Legion.