Don't get your hopes up for Deff kopptas they used the 2nd ed models picture in codex.
Hey did anyone else read that a BigMek w/ KFF in veichle only affects the Viechle so if your BigMek is in a truck No KFF Bubble.

Yes, it's one of the first rules posted. Not surprising, considering that the DA Forcefield generator got the same treatment.

The DA one works projecting out again. Restriction was removed from current faq.

 ciaflayed1 wrote:
The KFF Big Mek is NLA on the GW site, along with the DeffKoptaz! New models soon?!?

My money is on a Big mek box like the Shokk Attack gun... same price, large single sprue charactor with big mek options.

I think you'll see a warboss in that format too (small box, single sprue, all the options).

I also expect to see a warbuggy, deffkopta, wartrakk triple kit some time soon.

 Watching Paint Dry wrote:

 ciaflayed1 wrote:
The KFF Big Mek is NLA on the GW site, along with the DeffKoptaz! New models soon?!?

My money is on a Big mek box like the Shokk Attack gun... same price, large single sprue charactor with big mek options.

I think you'll see a warboss in that format too (small box, single sprue, all the options).

I also expect to see a warbuggy, deffkopta, wartrakk triple kit some time soon.

I think you're going to be disappointed.

I want all these things too. But if they're not releasing them alongside this new codex, we're pretty fethed until the next one I'd imagine. After the 4th edition codex came out, we had no new releases for six years...

Just browsing through the iBook and I've noticed that the meks in a burna squad have gained the options for killsaw; might try that out as an interesting assault unit in a truck; three armourbane powerklaw backed up with a bunch of template/power weapons has some potential I think

 Jambles wrote:

 Watching Paint Dry wrote:

 ciaflayed1 wrote:
The KFF Big Mek is NLA on the GW site, along with the DeffKoptaz! New models soon?!?

My money is on a Big mek box like the Shokk Attack gun... same price, large single sprue charactor with big mek options.

I think you'll see a warboss in that format too (small box, single sprue, all the options).

I also expect to see a warbuggy, deffkopta, wartrakk triple kit some time soon.

I think you're going to be disappointed.

I want all these things too. But if they're not releasing them alongside this new codex, we're pretty fethed until the next one I'd imagine. After the 4th edition codex came out, we had no new releases for six years...

Cept the dakkajet

 Jambles wrote:

 Watching Paint Dry wrote:

 ciaflayed1 wrote:
The KFF Big Mek is NLA on the GW site, along with the DeffKoptaz! New models soon?!?

My money is on a Big mek box like the Shokk Attack gun... same price, large single sprue charactor with big mek options.

I think you'll see a warboss in that format too (small box, single sprue, all the options).

I also expect to see a warbuggy, deffkopta, wartrakk triple kit some time soon.

I think you're going to be disappointed.

I want all these things too. But if they're not releasing them alongside this new codex, we're pretty fethed until the next one I'd imagine. After the 4th edition codex came out, we had no new releases for six years...

I am sure there have been some new releases after the last codex, kans? flyers? AoBR? Nobz?

 jhnbrg wrote:

 Jambles wrote:

 Watching Paint Dry wrote:

 ciaflayed1 wrote:
The KFF Big Mek is NLA on the GW site, along with the DeffKoptaz! New models soon?!?

My money is on a Big mek box like the Shokk Attack gun... same price, large single sprue charactor with big mek options.

I think you'll see a warboss in that format too (small box, single sprue, all the options).

I also expect to see a warbuggy, deffkopta, wartrakk triple kit some time soon.

I think you're going to be disappointed.

I want all these things too. But if they're not releasing them alongside this new codex, we're pretty fethed until the next one I'd imagine. After the 4th edition codex came out, we had no new releases for six years...

I am sure there have been some new releases after the last codex, kans? flyers? AoBR? Nobz?

When did the storm boyz come out?

I did forget about the dakkajet, dreads and black reach, fair enough. The new Nobz box came out with the 4th ed codex for sure, I don't know about the storm boyz.

I still don't think we're going to see any more new models for a while.

 Jambles wrote:
I did forget about the dakkajet, dreads and black reach, fair enough. The new Nobz box came out with the 4th ed codex for sure, I don't know about the storm boyz.

I still don't think we're going to see any more new models for a while.

Tbh i didnt expect 7:th edition this year either

The new Nobz came out well after AoBR. Storm boyz were much later too.

Here's the Ork releases from this thread:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?297915-Games-Workshop-40K-Release-Timeline-(Mk-II)

January 2008: Orks (4th edition) (PK)
*Orks - Warbikers (SP & DS)
*Orks - Trukk (TA & DS)
*Orks - Lootas/Burnas (SP)
*Orks - Tankbustas (MH)
*Orks - Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun (SP)
*Orks - Weirdboy (DT)
*Orks - Painboy (MH)
*Orks - Bomb Squigs (MH)
*Orks - Nob with WAAAGH! Banner (DT)

September 2008: Assault on Black Reach
*Orks - Warboss
*Orks - Deff Koptas
*Orks - Nobz

January 2009
*Orks - Nobz (SP)
*Orks - Stormboyz (MF & DT)
*Orks - Gretchin (MA)
*Orks - Battlewagon (TA, SP & DS)
*Orks - Kaptin Badrukk (MF)
*Orks - Boss Snikrot (SP)
*Orks - Boss Zagstruk (SP)

March 2009: Apocalypse Redux
*Orks - Stompa (AM, EC, BK, JM, SP & MA)

May 2009: Imperial Guard (5th edition) (RC)
Orks - Grot Ammo Runts (MF)

March 2010
*Orks - Killa Kans (DS)
*Orks - Deff Dread (DS & SP)
Orks - Flash Git with Targeting Squig (MHo)

December 2010
Orks - Inquisitive Grots (SP)
Orks - Thieving Grots

June 2012
*Orks - Blitza-Bommer/Dakkajet/Burna-Bommer (JG, NH, DL & DS)

June 2014: Orks (6th/7th edition)
Orks - Gorkanaut/Morkanaut
Orks - Mega-Armoured Nobz
Orks - Flash Gitz
Orks - Mek Gunz
Orks - Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun
Orks - Mek
Orks - Painboy

Honestly...while they haven't had a new book, Orks have done very well in terms of releases since the last codex (not great since the January 2009 release admittedly, but still a decent amount for not having an armybook).

i cant wait to order a few boxs of mega nobz, did there squad size get a bump?

What was the squad size before? I never saw more than 3 or 5, what with trukk size restrictions...

10 man same as nob squad

Squad size is 3-10 just like before.
One Meganob now is a Boss Nob, which is basically the same as a regular Meganob, except for character status, so have fun challenging stuff with a 2+ armor PK.

 Jidmah wrote:
Squad size is 3-10 just like before.
One Meganob now is a Boss Nob, which is basically the same as a regular Meganob, except for character status, so have fun challenging stuff with a 2+ armor PK.

I have two of the old metal meganobs (one kombi-skorcha, one reg'lar) and I was going to pick up a box of the new ones to get the unit to 5. I knew I wanted to give at least one of them PK+killsaw... now I know exactly which one to give it to

Someone mentioned about 50 pages in the past, that burnaboyz can use their flamer and still have AP3 in melee in the same round? Never seen anyone talking about that again. Was it just a hoax? If that's true those hot fellas would be really cool now!

soooo... I have the codex in hand... its AWFUL...

DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON IT...

Burna is now ALWAYS AP 3 in combat... but not if you shoot first.... sorry edit

you have to choose like before to use it as either shooting or close combat... can't do both

 frgsinwntr wrote:
soooo... I have the codex in hand... its AWFUL...

DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON IT...

Burna is now ALWAYS AP 3 in combat... but not if you shoot first.... sorry edit

I'll disagree. There are some things that are worse and better. To say its awful before you've had a couple games, isn't fair.

Come back in a couple of months, after you've had more than 1 game.

I'm actually pretty excited to get some games in this weekend to see how the new codex is.

The sky isn't falling where I'm at.

 frgsinwntr wrote:

Burna is now ALWAYS AP 3 in combat... but not if you shoot first.... sorry edit

you have to choose like before to use it as either shooting or close combat... can't do both

Wasn't it always that way?

rhavien wrote:
Someone mentioned about 50 pages in the past, that burnaboyz can use their flamer and still have AP3 in melee in the same round? Never seen anyone talking about that again. Was it just a hoax? If that's true those hot fellas would be really cool now!

I can confirm that, AP3 if they do NOT fire in the shooting phase.

Yeah, that's the same as before...

angryboy2k wrote:

 frgsinwntr wrote:

Burna is now ALWAYS AP 3 in combat... but not if you shoot first.... sorry edit

you have to choose like before to use it as either shooting or close combat... can't do both

Wasn't it always that way?

correct.

As far as the snarky "come back when you play some..." I'm pretty sure I've played more than enough games of 40k to know when something stinks this bad...

angryboy2k wrote:

Wasn't it always that way?

It used to count as a power weapon, no armor saves. Now it's just AP3, so a slight nerf.

 ciaflayed1 wrote:

angryboy2k wrote:

Wasn't it always that way?

It used to count as a power weapon, no armor saves.

incorrect, it was an unusual power weapon that was AP 3 if you didn't shoot.

 frgsinwntr wrote:

 ciaflayed1 wrote:

angryboy2k wrote:

Wasn't it always that way?

It used to count as a power weapon, no armor saves.

incorrect, it was an unusual power weapon that was AP 3 if you didn't shoot.

"A burna may be used in the shooting phase with the profile below, or as a power weapon in an assault, but not both in the same turn." What page lists it as AP3, I have my old Codex in front of me.

Didn't Burnas also have an extra D6 armour penetration inCC? Or was that only in the 3rd Ed book...?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ciaflayed1 wrote:

 frgsinwntr wrote:

 ciaflayed1 wrote:

angryboy2k wrote:

Wasn't it always that way?

It used to count as a power weapon, no armor saves.

incorrect, it was an unusual power weapon that was AP 3 if you didn't shoot.

"A burna may be used in the shooting phase with the profile below, or as a power weapon in an assault, but not both in the same turn." What page lists it as AP3, I have my old Codex in front of me.

The main rulebook said any weapon which was a power weapon with extra, unusual rules (or didn't fit into sword, axe, maul, spear category) was AP3, unless specified otherwise.

That's if I remember it correctly.

 ciaflayed1 wrote:

rhavien wrote:
Someone mentioned about 50 pages in the past, that burnaboyz can use their flamer and still have AP3 in melee in the same round? Never seen anyone talking about that again. Was it just a hoax? If that's true those hot fellas would be really cool now!

I can confirm that, AP3 if they do NOT fire in the shooting phase.

Are they still AP3 if they were used during "Wall-o-death" if assaulted?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Didn't Burans also have an extra D6 armour penetration? Or was that only in the 3rd Ed book...?

I can't verify that in last Codex, so I would have to say no. I find nothing to support that, may have been 3rd, I started with Orks when the last Codex dropped.

here is why the codex is bad...

you want to assault people....
+ if your ride blows up, half of your squad dies in the explosion... you fail your moral check half of the time for pinning... then take more hits form mob rule... then take more hits half the time when you fail moral... and you are left with NOTHING...
+trukks die to everything
+battlewagons went up in cost and deffrollas are only on Death or glory attempts....

If you want to spam 18 killa kans...
+you just spent 900pts on 3 units that will amost certainly auto lose vs anything with range over 24 inches...

if you want to outshoot your opponent...
+you are playing orks... why are you trying to outshoot your opponent?

want to run biker nobs or bikes?
+tau ignore cover, and have lots of AP 4... you lose models so fast you can't play an actual game... and you can't be troops anymore to spam them to make up for it....
+loss of invul makes nob bikers pop like crazy....
+need to use HQ slots for KFF meks on bikes or Docs on bikes for FNP....

 ciaflayed1 wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Didn't Burans also have an extra D6 armour penetration? Or was that only in the 3rd Ed book...?

I can't verify that in last Codex, so I would have to say no. I find nothing to support that, may have been 3rd, I started with Orks when the last Codex dropped.

Ah, thought so but just checking. Haven't played my Orks since 3rd. Was hoping this codex would catch my interest. So far not really...

 ciaflayed1 wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Didn't Burans also have an extra D6 armour penetration? Or was that only in the 3rd Ed book...?

I can't verify that in last Codex, so I would have to say no. I find nothing to support that, may have been 3rd, I started with Orks when the last Codex dropped.

unusual power weapons was 6th ed core rules.

the extra d6 was in close combat only 3rd ed codex after the 3rd ed faq

 whembly wrote:

 ciaflayed1 wrote:

rhavien wrote:
Someone mentioned about 50 pages in the past, that burnaboyz can use their flamer and still have AP3 in melee in the same round? Never seen anyone talking about that again. Was it just a hoax? If that's true those hot fellas would be really cool now!

I can confirm that, AP3 if they do NOT fire in the shooting phase.

Are they still AP3 if they were used during "Wall-o-death" if assaulted?

the new book says "It can't use both profiles in the same turn."

 frgsinwntr wrote:

 ciaflayed1 wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Didn't Burans also have an extra D6 armour penetration? Or was that only in the 3rd Ed book...?

I can't verify that in last Codex, so I would have to say no. I find nothing to support that, may have been 3rd, I started with Orks when the last Codex dropped.

unusual power weapons was 6th ed core rules.

the extra d6 was in close combat only 3rd ed codex after the 3rd ed faq

OK, I never played a game in 6th, so my apology.

 ciaflayed1 wrote:

 frgsinwntr wrote:

 ciaflayed1 wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Didn't Burans also have an extra D6 armour penetration? Or was that only in the 3rd Ed book...?

I can't verify that in last Codex, so I would have to say no. I find nothing to support that, may have been 3rd, I started with Orks when the last Codex dropped.

unusual power weapons was 6th ed core rules.

the extra d6 was in close combat only 3rd ed codex after the 3rd ed faq

OK, I never played a game in 6th, so my apology.

No apology needed.

....

 frgsinwntr wrote:
here is why the codex is bad...

you want to assault people....
+ if your ride blows up, half of your squad dies in the explosion... you fail your moral check half of the time for pinning... then take more hits form mob rule... then take more hits half the time when you fail moral... and you are left with NOTHING...
+trukks die to everything
+battlewagons went up in cost and deffrollas are only on Death or glory attempts....

If you want to spam 18 killa kans...
+you just spent 900pts on 3 units that will amost certainly auto lose vs anything with range over 24 inches...

if you want to outshoot your opponent...
+you are playing orks... why are you trying to outshoot your opponent?

You're completely talking out of your posterior, mate, with handwave dismissal statements. Sure, you lose that Trukk, you may have lost the squad too, but they're probably barely over 125~ points. If you mass Trukk Boys, some of them have to reach the enemy, and when they do, you rip them to pieces if they're light infantry, power klaw them to death if they're heavier, and generally cause chaos. You support this effort with your other support elements that neutralise the Trukk killers and remove the hard hitters. This has always been the Ork philosophy, you take a few fair casualties but when you get in the optimum zone you wreck your opponent . You don't take a 100 Ork horde and expect all of them to reach the enemy, just under 2/3rds will actually make it there.

I honestly can't tell you how to make the ideal Trukk list that makes it worthwhile, but I'm willing to bet there's a way to do it, and the first step is not saying "hurr durr won't ever work"

Battlewagons went up in cost, but they're still a good unit and a good transport.

Granted, Killa Kans are going to have issues dealing with the super-S7 dealers, so going mass Kans means you need a strategy to deal with those S7 dealers simultaneously. That's why you either take something else instead of just Kans in HS, or take S7-dealer-killers from other FOC sections.

You're not trying to outshoot your opponent, you're trying to win, and with Orks you'll probably being using a mixture of shooting and assaults to get there. Only a blind idiot believes Orks are solely meant for assaults or only good if they try to outshoot their opponents.

 frgsinwntr wrote:
here is why the codex is bad...

you want to assault people....
+ if your ride blows up, half of your squad dies in the explosion... you fail your moral check half of the time for pinning... then take more hits form mob rule... then take more hits half the time when you fail moral... and you are left with NOTHING...
+trukks die to everything

Exploding trukks are an issue. They do not die to everything. They are likely to get wrecked pretty easily with a little bit of attention, but that is true of most AV10 - AV11 models. Most of the time you will get a nice 24" move out of them to get into position. Next turn you can jump out and assault pretty much anything on the table. And again, with the weapons fired at them, the trukk will most likely wreck, not explode.

+battlewagons went up in cost and deffrollas are only on Death or glory attempts....

Deff rolls are pretty much a no take, though at only what, 5 points more than the reinforced rams (a must take) it maybe is okay,

If you want to spam 18 killa kans...
+you just spent 900pts on 3 units that will amost certainly auto lose vs anything with range over 24 inches…

Auto lose to what exactly? Few armies can put models on the table to stop 36 AV11 models who will likely have KFF coverage and boyz backing them up.

want to run biker nobs or bikes?
+tau ignore cover, and have lots of AP 4... you lose models so fast you can't play an actual game... and you can't be troops anymore to spam them to make up for it….

They can, they don't automatically.

+loss of invul makes nob bikers pop like crazy….

How, railguns? Demolisher cannons? How many S10 shooting attacks are hitting tables where you are?

+need to use HQ slots for KFF meks on bikes or Docs on bikes for FNP....

You need a pain boy. KFF in nob biker units are a requirement, but they always were.

Bikes are crazy cheap now, and come with Jink saves that get even better if you Boost, right?

Wonder how well a couple of 6-Ork groups would work as "bullet catchers" up front of the line? They're fast enough to roll forward and then turn sideways, creating a foot wide "shield" in front of the ladz. They go a full foot, letting the tide run up behind them after a normal move, giving you the round of safety that you gotta have before you can start considering a turn 2 charge of the footsloggers. Not terribly safe against Tau, but then what Orky thing is? The Ladz can punch through soon after and get stuck in for some right propa' choppin'.

 Jidmah wrote:
Squad size is 3-10 just like before.
One Meganob now is a Boss Nob, which is basically the same as a regular Meganob, except for character status, so have fun challenging stuff with a 2+ armor PK.

Hm, with 10 being the breaking point for Ork units, you're basically going to HAVE to add another character to a unit of Meganobz if you want Mob Rule to be useful. Otherwise a single casaulty is pretty devastating. Especially so if your Boss Nob eats it in a challenge or something.

Might still be better off with small suicide MANZ units. The new models are pretty sweet.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 frgsinwntr wrote:
here is why the codex is bad...

you want to assault people....
+ if your ride blows up, half of your squad dies in the explosion... you fail your moral check half of the time for pinning... then take more hits form mob rule... then take more hits half the time when you fail moral... and you are left with NOTHING...
+trukks die to everything
+battlewagons went up in cost and deffrollas are only on Death or glory attempts....

If you want to spam 18 killa kans...
+you just spent 900pts on 3 units that will amost certainly auto lose vs anything with range over 24 inches...

if you want to outshoot your opponent...
+you are playing orks... why are you trying to outshoot your opponent?

You're completely talking out of your posterior, mate, with handwave dismissal statements. Sure, you lose that Trukk, you may have lost the squad too, but they're probably barely over 125~ points. If you mass Trukk Boys, some of them have to reach the enemy, and when they do, you rip them to pieces if they're light infantry, power klaw them to death if they're heavier, and generally cause chaos. You support this effort with your other support elements that neutralise the Trukk killers and remove the hard hitters. This has always been the Ork philosophy, you take a few fair casualties but when you get in the optimum zone you wreck your opponent . You don't take a 100 Ork horde and expect all of them to reach the enemy, just under 2/3rds will actually make it there.

I honestly can't tell you how to make the ideal Trukk list that makes it worthwhile, but I'm willing to bet there's a way to do it, and the first step is not saying "hurr durr won't ever work"

Battlewagons went up in cost, but they're still a good unit and a good transport.

Granted, Killa Kans are going to have issues dealing with the super-S7 dealers, so going mass Kans means you need a strategy to deal with those S7 dealers simultaneously. That's why you either take something else instead of just Kans in HS, or take S7-dealer-killers from other FOC sections.

You're not trying to outshoot your opponent, you're trying to win, and with Orks you'll probably being using a mixture of shooting and assaults to get there. Only a blind idiot believes Orks are solely meant for assaults or only good if they try to outshoot their opponents.

12 boyz in a trukk with nob with pole and klaw is 142, no other weapon upgrades. You can have 6 of these. Lets assume you DON'T get first turn. your opponent has 4 wave serpents and 2 wraith knights... you probably lost 3 trukks. Turn 2... you just lost 3 more and half of your army... gg? go for beer and pretzels?

if you do get first turn... you get out and assualt maybe one serpent? (assume your opponent realizes they have 60 inch range and will keep their distance)

my point is... the orks are not ANY better than they were last codex... and are actually WORSE off then they were.

6 trukks isn't even half an army. And considering how far you can move them and still assault, you'll be getting into assault.

 frgsinwntr wrote:
here is why the codex is bad...

you want to assault people....
+ if your ride blows up, half of your squad dies in the explosion... you fail your moral check half of the time for pinning... then take more hits form mob rule... then take more hits half the time when you fail moral... and you are left with NOTHING...
+trukks die to everything
+battlewagons went up in cost and deffrollas are only on Death or glory attempts....

If you want to spam 18 killa kans...
+you just spent 900pts on 3 units that will amost certainly auto lose vs anything with range over 24 inches...

if you want to outshoot your opponent...
+you are playing orks... why are you trying to outshoot your opponent?

want to run biker nobs or bikes?
+tau ignore cover, and have lots of AP 4... you lose models so fast you can't play an actual game... and you can't be troops anymore to spam them to make up for it....
+loss of invul makes nob bikers pop like crazy....
+need to use HQ slots for KFF meks on bikes or Docs on bikes for FNP....

Here is why the codex is bad:
- If your opponent rolls really good, and you roll really bad, you might actually lose a whole unit
- Trukks only got 5 points cheaper, and had no upgrade to AV13
- A piece of equipment that was unusable due to 7th edition rules got even more unusable, even though many new options can now fulfill this rule
- 18 AV11 walkers which are the exact same price as before will do nothing if they somehow all get killed before they reach the middle of the table in turn two
- Because orks shoot worse than tau and eldar
- Because every weapon is AP4, ignores cover and causes instant death to T5 models
- Because a 5++ was totally the only reasons nob bikers were playable at all, since, as above, all weapons are S10, AP4 and ignore cover
- Because you need to use a different mandatory HQ for nob bikers

Now, you heard it! Don't buy the codex, three of the units in it have been nerfed and one wasn't buffed!

eehhmm... quick question..

only warbosses and bigmeks can take relics?

People should stop thinking in terms of one CAD.

This is not going to last; with every new codex it's going more obvious.

I'd probably go for the Warband detchment if I were running trukk boyz anyway.

RedNoak wrote:
eehhmm... quick question..

only warbosses and bigmeks can take relics?

Correct. They get the relic on top of everything else they have, nothing is traded.

 streamdragon wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Squad size is 3-10 just like before.
One Meganob now is a Boss Nob, which is basically the same as a regular Meganob, except for character status, so have fun challenging stuff with a 2+ armor PK.

Hm, with 10 being the breaking point for Ork units, you're basically going to HAVE to add another character to a unit of Meganobz if you want Mob Rule to be useful. Otherwise a single casaulty is pretty devastating. Especially so if your Boss Nob eats it in a challenge or something.

Might still be better off with small suicide MANZ units. The new models are pretty sweet.

A unit of nobz with a character and boss pole.will pass their leadership tests as well as last time or by a statistically similar amount. Regular test plus the chance to roll a 1-3 twice before needing to run.

NamelessBard wrote:
People should stop thinking in terms of one CAD.

This is not going to last; with every new codex it's going more obvious.

I'd probably go for the Warband detchment if I were running trukk boyz anyway.

This.

The only real limitation I see with the new codex is who can secure objectives (boyz and gretchen at present). We just need something that allows nobs, manz or bikers to secure objectives and we're back to the old codex (with a few other buffs and nerfs). No big deal, its just that the new edition has changed how we build army lists.

According to someone at my FLGS, the Stompa has a Leadership of 4, and Toughness of 13, and Save of 12 (?) printed for it in the Codex (looks like the digital version). Unless I missed something, Toughness 13 doesn't exist.

Image:

NamelessBard wrote:
People should stop thinking in terms of one CAD.

This is not going to last; with every new codex it's going more obvious.

I'd probably go for the Warband detchment if I were running trukk boyz anyway.

I think some folks are still on the fence about multiple CADs, especially since some major tournaments have come down on the side of not taking multiples. In that sense, fitting an army into a battle-forged list is still important to many players I think. Multiple CAD kind of defeats any purpose to Unbound or alternate FOCs like the new Ork one.

NamelessBard wrote:
People should stop thinking in terms of one CAD.

This is not going to last; with every new codex it's going more obvious.

I'd probably go for the Warband detchment if I were running trukk boyz anyway.

A lot of people play single CAD, so it is still important to have a functioning army within the normal FOC restrictions
.

Considering that MANz were usually LD7 before and had no way of getting a boss pole outside of an IC, they've got a huge buff from mob rule.

NamelessBard wrote:
People should stop thinking in terms of one CAD.

This is not going to last; with every new codex it's going more obvious.

I'd probably go for the Warband detchment if I were running trukk boyz anyway.

Yes, I agree. Only at very low points would it be a single CAD, less than a thousand.

Orks must be multi FOC to play now. If any one refuses to let you use more than one, clobber 'em!!!!

TableTopJosh wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:
People should stop thinking in terms of one CAD.

This is not going to last; with every new codex it's going more obvious.

I'd probably go for the Warband detchment if I were running trukk boyz anyway.

A lot of people play single CAD, so it is still important to have a functioning army within the normal FOC restrictions
.

GW seems to think so as well. So they included an Ork Horde Detachment in the codex, which allows you to field as little as 18 trukks in a single detachment.

WayneTheGame wrote:
According to someone at my FLGS, the Stompa has a Leadership of 4, and Toughness of 13, and Save of 12 (?) printed for it in the Codex (looks like the digital version). Unless I missed something, Toughness 13 doesn't exist.

Those are the armor values. They pasted the Vehicle stats into a normal stat block.

TableTopJosh wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:
People should stop thinking in terms of one CAD.

This is not going to last; with every new codex it's going more obvious.

I'd probably go for the Warband detchment if I were running trukk boyz anyway.

A lot of people play single CAD, so it is still important to have a functioning army within the normal FOC restrictions
.

Maybe people need to reduce unnecessary restrictions?

Most people play at least the ability to use more than a single FOC

 pretre wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:
According to someone at my FLGS, the Stompa has a Leadership of 4, and Toughness of 13, and Save of 12 (?) printed for it in the Codex (looks like the digital version). Unless I missed something, Toughness 13 doesn't exist.

Those are the armor values. They pasted the Vehicle stats into a normal stat block.

So we've established they don't proofread

About Deffkoptas: they are indeed NLA on the US site, and they are not *at all* on the UK website !

WayneTheGame wrote:

 pretre wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:
According to someone at my FLGS, the Stompa has a Leadership of 4, and Toughness of 13, and Save of 12 (?) printed for it in the Codex (looks like the digital version). Unless I missed something, Toughness 13 doesn't exist.

Those are the armor values. They pasted the Vehicle stats into a normal stat block.

So we've established they don't proofread

Stompa looks fine in digital version though.

 Jidmah wrote:
Considering that MANz were usually LD7 before and had no way of getting a boss pole outside of an IC, they've got a huge buff from mob rule.

Dunno that I would call it "huge", given that a single casualty suddenly eliminates half the Mob Rule chart, but yes a buff. Really, it's more that the unit itself now has a character by default, and can access a bosspole on its own. Without those, the unit would still be pretty boned.

Which is why I said if you want full squads, you should probably add a character (though they sadly wont fit in a BW then ). Otherwise you are better off with small units that will generally be dead before LD checks come into play.

 PhillyT wrote:

TableTopJosh wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:
People should stop thinking in terms of one CAD.

This is not going to last; with every new codex it's going more obvious.

I'd probably go for the Warband detchment if I were running trukk boyz anyway.

A lot of people play single CAD, so it is still important to have a functioning army within the normal FOC restrictions
.

Maybe people need to reduce unnecessary restrictions?

Most people play at least the ability to use more than a single FOC

NO NO NO NO NO!
thats a big nogo.

why you guys think FoC's where implemented in the first place?

its there so you can/must build diverse and balanced armylists. if you take multiple FoCs or go straight unbound you can come up with some reeaally gamebreaking stuff.
since gretchin costs 35 point you can basically field whatever you want for an extra tax of 70points...

for friendly fun games thats totally fine... you dont even need some special GW rules just do what you want.
but if you want to play competitive (and i'm not talking about tounaments! i mean friendly games) you need some boundries.

just spamming heavy support, hq and elite or whatever demonic ubercombo your codex inherits, has nothing to do with skill or a fair balanced game, its just cheesy power gaming.

 frgsinwntr wrote:
here is why the codex is bad...

You mean people might have to use strategy and tactics in a tactical strategy game? That people might have to think on their feet in order to play a wargame game well and competitively, rather than work from one years-old netlist that's practically guaranteed to do well? THE VERY IDEA, harrumph, well I never, etc. guess i better sell all these minis

EDIT: the pride I feel that this was my 200th post... *sniff*

 frgsinwntr wrote:
soooo... I have the codex in hand... its AWFUL...

DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON IT...

Burna is now ALWAYS AP 3 in combat... but not if you shoot first.... sorry edit

you have to choose like before to use it as either shooting or close combat... can't do both

Thats how it always was

Lets be honest...we all wanted a dedicated transport that could launch a meganob off a catapult, with a range of 60 inches, ignoring terrain, that caused a Str 8 AP3 D6 hammer of wrath when it hit, and allowed the meganob to immediately enter assault at init 9.

But if you rolled a 1, the meganob's armor fell apart, and landed without any weapons and went splat.

RedNoak wrote:

NO NO NO NO NO!
thats a big nogo.

why you guys think FoC's where implemented in the first place?

its there so you can/must build diverse and balanced armylists. if you take multiple FoCs or go straight unbound you can come up with some reeaally gamebreaking stuff.
since gretchin costs 35 point you can basically field whatever you want for an extra tax of 70points...

for friendly fun games thats totally fine... you dont even need some special GW rules just do what you want.
but if you want to play competitive (and i'm not talking about tounaments! i mean friendly games) you need some boundries.

just spamming heavy support, hq and elite or whatever demonic ubercombo your codex inherits, has nothing to do with skill or a fair balanced game, its just cheesy power gaming.

The FOC was de-implemented with 7th edition by the designers, so none of your arguments are actually valid. The rules are as they are, banning multiple detachments is like banning riptides, wave serpents or the grimoire.
The extra tax of 70 point is actually quite a lot when you try it in a couple of lists, and the ork codex doesn't exactly have any "ubercombos" which is one of the reasons for the amount of whining in this thread.

OK so with the stompa being in the codex and all, can we still use the Buzzgobs Kustom Sompta builder in IA8 Instead? The one in the codex looks really overpriced and dosent have any cool options.

 streamdragon wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Considering that MANz were usually LD7 before and had no way of getting a boss pole outside of an IC, they've got a huge buff from mob rule.

Dunno that I would call it "huge", given that a single casualty suddenly eliminates half the Mob Rule chart, but yes a buff. Really, it's more that the unit itself now has a character by default, and can access a bosspole on its own. Without those, the unit would still be pretty boned.

Which is why I said if you want full squads, you should probably add a character (though they sadly wont fit in a BW then ). Otherwise you are better off with small units that will generally be dead before LD checks come into play.

Fully squads have never been a good a idea, for a simple reason which has not changed at all: What unit can survive 20 powerklaw attacks, but will fold to 40?

Either the opponent will kill half your unit, in which case you shouldn't be fighting him, or your MANz were already stomping them flat into the ground, in which case you wouldn't need the full unit.

 greggles wrote:
Lets be honest...we all wanted a dedicated transport that could launch a meganob off a catapult, with a range of 60 inches, ignoring terrain, that caused a Str 8 AP3 D6 hammer of wrath when it hit, and allowed the meganob to immediately enter assault at init 9.

But if you rolled a 1, the meganob's armor fell apart, and landed without any weapons and went splat.

Great. Now I have to figure out how to scratch build this.

Many units in various armies in both 40k and Fantasy have never been good ideas. People still field them though.

To answer your question though: perhaps a full brood of Fexes?

40 attacks at 2/3 hit, 5/6 wound = 22.222 wounds
20 attacks at 2/3 hit, 5/6 wound = 11.111 wounds

One unit wipes the Fexes out completely, the other leaves 2 Fexes alive (and pretty pissed off).

Of course, why arent you shooting Fexes with Rokkits or something, but that wasnt what you asked.

225 points for a unit in which every model can take a PK, TL shoota, 2+ save and bosspole is kinda wacky. I'll take 5 and use them on artillery wimps hiding in the backfield.

Are meganobs still 40 pts each?

 Jidmah wrote:

The FOC was de-implemented with 7th edition by the designers, so none of your arguments are actually valid. The rules are as they are, banning multiple detachments is like banning riptides, wave serpents or the grimoire.
The extra tax of 70 point is actually quite a lot when you try it in a couple of lists, and the ork codex doesn't exactly have any "ubercombos" which is one of the reasons for the amount of whining in this thread.

it wasnt "deimplemented" they just fraked it over by implementing unbound and forcing us to accept it by frelling with the codices.

70points is a joke if i can field 3 extra slots of elite, support and additional hq's -.-



...oh, and just between us: i dont think it were the "designers" whom came up with this unbound stuff...

I'm surprised that so many people are still in thread talking about it. You guys should be pouring over the codex, making lists, and planning games for the weekend!

I need to hear some Bat Reps!

Great. Now I have to figure out how to scratch build this.

Or how bout a sag that you could "preload" with snotlings. Each snotling extra you sucked into the gun gave you a +1 to the STR roll, but if you rolled over a 10, the gun overloaded, and sucked the big mek in as well.

 streamdragon wrote:
Many units in various armies in both 40k and Fantasy have never been good ideas. People still field them though.

To answer your question though: perhaps a full brood of Fexes?

40 attacks at 2/3 hit, 5/6 wound = 22.222 wounds
20 attacks at 2/3 hit, 5/6 wound = 11.111 wounds

One unit wipes the Fexes out completely, the other leaves 2 Fexes alive (and pretty pissed off).

Of course, why arent you shooting Fexes with Rokkits or something, but that wasnt what you asked.

The fexes would instant-death a whole bunch of them though, which would put them into the category of "you shouldn't be there".

RedNoak wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

The FOC was de-implemented with 7th edition by the designers, so none of your arguments are actually valid. The rules are as they are, banning multiple detachments is like banning riptides, wave serpents or the grimoire.
The extra tax of 70 point is actually quite a lot when you try it in a couple of lists, and the ork codex doesn't exactly have any "ubercombos" which is one of the reasons for the amount of whining in this thread.

it wasnt "deimplemented" they just fraked it over by implementing unbound and forcing us to accept it by frelling with the codices.

70points is a joke if i can field 3 extra slots of elite, support and additional hq's -.-
...oh, and just between us: i dont think it were the "designers" whom came up with this unbound stuff...

Uh, what? Unbound has nothing to do with this.
A battleforged list is allowed to pick up any amount of detachments. Each detachment can be a Combined Arms Detachment, Allied Detachment, Ork Horde Detachment or Formation. Unbound can field whatever the feth they like. Major difference.

And 70 points are not a joke, considering how worthless gretchin are in this edition. That's almost two MANz, four kannons, two trukks, three powerklaws, a painboyz or whatnot. Not a single choice from the ork codex is worth paying 70 points tax on it. The only reason to get a second (or third) detachment would be fielding four or six mobs of boyz anyways.

Does anyone know how Bomb Squigs work now?

 MagicMan wrote:
Does anyone know how Bomb Squigs work now?

18" S8 AP4 Assault 1 single shot attack that hits on 2+ but can't target flyers, skimmers or FMC.

Can't be used for snapshots, but no requirement to target a vehicle.

 frgsinwntr wrote:
soooo... I have the codex in hand... its AWFUL...

DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON IT...

Burna is now ALWAYS AP 3 in combat... but not if you shoot first.... sorry edit

you have to choose like before to use it as either shooting or close combat... can't do both

Hey man, does the codex have "art" or "model photos" in the unit entries?

 matphat wrote:
I'm surprised that so many people are still in thread talking about it. You guys should be pouring over the codex, making lists, and planning games for the weekend!

I need to hear some Bat Reps!

Well according to a lot of the people here there Ii no need to play a game. The codex is so bad they have already math hammered and theory hammered the out comes of all games. Why would they need to actually play they have the codex and that should be enough to determine out comes of games.

...right ?

 Dakkamite wrote:

 frgsinwntr wrote:
soooo... I have the codex in hand... its AWFUL...

DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON IT...

Burna is now ALWAYS AP 3 in combat... but not if you shoot first.... sorry edit

you have to choose like before to use it as either shooting or close combat... can't do both

Hey man, does the codex have "art" or "model photos" in the unit entries?

Photos. A lot of new art in the fluff part though. Fluff also seems to be rewritten. It has similar content to the old codex, but the actual words a different. No major retcon as far as I can tell, besides Flash Gits no longer being part of Bad Moons and the "orks become spores on death"-theory stated as one of many theories rather than fact.

the art is iffy... seems like a lot of reprints of art form old sources

 Jidmah wrote:

RedNoak wrote:
eehhmm... quick question..

only warbosses and bigmeks can take relics?

Correct. They get the relic on top of everything else they have, nothing is traded.

Verified (just backing you up), Only the Warboss & Big Mek have "Gifts of Gork & Mork" on their lists.

 frgsinwntr wrote:
the art is iffy... seems like a lot of reprints of art form old sources

Like every codex in the last 20 years?

They are all majority reprints with minority new stuff.

 Jidmah wrote:

And 70 points are not a joke, considering how worthless gretchin are in this edition. That's almost two MANz, four kannons, two trukks, three powerklaws, a painboyz or whatnot. Not a single choice from the ork codex is worth paying 70 points tax on it. The only reason to get a second (or third) detachment would be fielding four or six mobs of boyz anyways.

ill say it again...

RedNoak wrote:

70points is a joke, if i can field 3 extra slots of elite, support and additional hq's -.-

3 extra slots of support + 2HQ's are well worth the 70 points... especially in the ork dex... since our hq and support section are the ones that are extremely crowded

 ciaflayed1 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

RedNoak wrote:
eehhmm... quick question..

only warbosses and bigmeks can take relics?

Correct. They get the relic on top of everything else they have, nothing is traded.

Verified (just backing you up), Only the Warboss & Big Mek have "Gifts of Gork & Mork" on their lists.

Correct... even tho "da fixer uppers" mentions meks in their entry... they have no access to it

Its kinda funny that mad doc grotsnik has cybork body... and docs tools... its like the change to cybork was a last minute thing...

 frgsinwntr wrote:


Its kinda funny that mad doc grotsnik has cybork body... and docs tools... its like the change to cybork was a last minute thing...

hmm seems like a fishy finish-line rule change to me

RedNoak wrote:

 frgsinwntr wrote:


Its kinda funny that mad doc grotsnik has cybork body... and docs tools... its like the change to cybork was a last minute thing...

hmm seems like a fishy finish-line rule change to me

exactly... seems like shenanigans....

 frgsinwntr wrote:
Its kinda funny that mad doc grotsnik has cybork body... and docs tools... its like the change to cybork was a last minute thing...

More likely it was a fluff rule. Lots of GW rules have almost no importance aside from fluff.

 frgsinwntr wrote:

RedNoak wrote:

 frgsinwntr wrote:


Its kinda funny that mad doc grotsnik has cybork body... and docs tools... its like the change to cybork was a last minute thing...

hmm seems like a fishy finish-line rule change to me

exactly... seems like shenanigans....

Eh, I don't know if I'd go that far. Grotsnik is famously a cyborg dok, it would be weird for him not to have the rules, even though they overlap

Leerjawise wrote:

 frgsinwntr wrote:

RedNoak wrote:

 frgsinwntr wrote:


Its kinda funny that mad doc grotsnik has cybork body... and docs tools... its like the change to cybork was a last minute thing...

hmm seems like a fishy finish-line rule change to me

exactly... seems like shenanigans....

Eh, I don't know if I'd go that far. Grotsnik is famously a cyborg dok, it would be weird for him not to have the rules, even though they overlap

But it's still a hilarious oversight, right? That piece of equipment serves absolutely no purpose, and for all we know could have affected the overall point cost of the model! It's a microcosm of all the criticisms leveled at Games Workshop's game design philosophy...

Not really. It would have been appalling design if they changed everything else to suit a corner case that still functions fine (and still seems like a nice addition to a lot of crews).

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Da-Goff-Guard

WTF?!?!

 nflagey wrote:
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Da-Goff-Guard

WTF?!?!

temporarily out of stock as well. What's the confusing part? It's just a one-click bundle.

The price tag, I'm wondering if GW sells a lot of those $1000++ collection.
A few 1-click collection are TOOS, I guess because the Ork Warboss with Attack Squig is TOOS.

Otherwise, I really like those MANZ in red !

What's the unit size for normal nobz in the new book? That collection has units that look like 15, so at least bigger than mega nobz.

 nflagey wrote:
The price tag, I'm wondering if GW sells a lot of those $1000++ collection.
A few 1-click collection are TOOS, I guess because the Ork Warboss with Attack Squig is TOOS.

Otherwise, I really like those MANZ in red !

I do find these pretty funny, but the one clicks aren't much effort for GW.

Some guy who does their design work puts a link up, photoshops a pic, and posts it. If anyone buys it (which I think is very rare) they pick and ship.

10 nobs max of any variety

 Jidmah wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:

 frgsinwntr wrote:
soooo... I have the codex in hand... its AWFUL...

DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON IT...

Burna is now ALWAYS AP 3 in combat... but not if you shoot first.... sorry edit

you have to choose like before to use it as either shooting or close combat... can't do both

Hey man, does the codex have "art" or "model photos" in the unit entries?

Photos. A lot of new art in the fluff part though. Fluff also seems to be rewritten. It has similar content to the old codex, but the actual words a different. No major retcon as far as I can tell, besides Flash Gits no longer being part of Bad Moons and the "orks become spores on death"-theory stated as one of many theories rather than fact.

Cheers man. It was that weirdboy entry that pushed me over the edge into selling rather than adapting, and then I heard rumours it was a WD article and started to reconsider...

Best of luck making the best of this codex and the game.

 frgsinwntr wrote:
10 nobs max of any variety

Awwww. Was hoping for a unit of 15 nobz + characters to cruise around in a battlewagon.

 Jambles wrote:

But it's still a hilarious oversight, right? That piece of equipment serves absolutely no purpose, and for all we know could have affected the overall point cost of the model! It's a microcosm of all the criticisms leveled at Games Workshop's game design philosophy...

he. good way to put it

funny that ghazskull lost its asiamanzanium skull and grotsnik got usless gear but the point costs are the same as in the last dex.

(225/160 right?)

 nflagey wrote:
The price tag, I'm wondering if GW sells a lot of those $1000++ collection.
A few 1-click collection are TOOS, I guess because the Ork Warboss with Attack Squig is TOOS.

Otherwise, I really like those MANZ in red !

Goto this link for a cheaper version

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Da-Goff-Guard

By cheaper, i mean the opposite.

 Dakkamite wrote:

Cheers man. It was that weirdboy entry that pushed me over the edge into selling rather than adapting, and then I heard rumours it was a WD article and started to reconsider...

Best of luck making the best of this codex and the game.

This is probably like the fourth or fifth time you've mentioned you're giving up on the game and selling your models (though I admit I skipped a fair number of pages on slow news days). Who do you think needs or will benefit from multiple updates re: your quitting 40K?

No hard feelings, though, as you're the one who clued me in to the Painboss in IA8, one of the things that made my late-6th ed games fun and caused untold amounts of rage in my opponents, also one of the things I was most glad to see included in the main book this time around. It's unfortunate you're not attempting to use that same cleverness to suss out the best combos in 7th.

Nobody is impressed with public displays of army crisis. Sell or don't sell. Who cares? More models on Bartertown for me.

This is a better book, any other tears are broken dreams and lost wish lists.

@Da Goff Guard

wow thats some price range

poor poor aussies...

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Da-Goff-Guard
$2,626

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Da-Goff-Guard
$3,844

RedNoak wrote:
@Da Goff Guard

wow thats some price range

poor poor aussies...

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Da-Goff-Guard
$2,626

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Da-Goff-Guard
$3,844

I think it's a small price to pay for living in such a beautiful place.

 PhillyT wrote:

I do find these pretty funny, but the one clicks aren't much effort for GW.

Some guy who does their design work puts a link up, photoshops a pic, and posts it. If anyone buys it (which I think is very rare) they pick and ship.

Game clubs will pool money to buy a huge army like that, I have some friends who got the first big Marine chapter bundle that way and split it up according to who wanted/needed what.

 matphat wrote:

RedNoak wrote:
@Da Goff Guard

wow thats some price range

poor poor aussies...

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Da-Goff-Guard
$2,626

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Da-Goff-Guard
$3,844

I think it's a small price to pay for living in such a beautiful place.

The £500 difference between UK and AUS price could buy you a plane ticket to visit

 Multimoog wrote:

No hard feelings, though, as you're the one who clued me in to the Painboss in IA8, one of the things that made my late-6th ed games fun and caused untold amounts of rage in my opponents, also one of the things I was most glad to see included in the main book this time around. It's unfortunate you're not attempting to use that same cleverness to suss out the best combos in 7th.

 PhillyT wrote:
This is a better book, any other tears are broken dreams and lost wish lists.

I don't think anybody, myself included, who has taken a serious look at the rules are saying they are weak rules by this point. The combos are apparent already and will become more so pretty soon. Hell, in d3 victory points edition, Orks have the potential for greatness if your willing to play the missions instead of krump some gits.

As to the rest, theres an ignore button if it offends your sensibilities. I care as much about your opinion as you do mine, whatever that amount may be.

 Multimoog wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:

I do find these pretty funny, but the one clicks aren't much effort for GW.

Some guy who does their design work puts a link up, photoshops a pic, and posts it. If anyone buys it (which I think is very rare) they pick and ship.

Game clubs will pool money to buy a huge army like that, I have some friends who got the first big Marine chapter bundle that way and split it up according to who wanted/needed what.

The first marine chapter bundle was a huge discount. These one click bundles are basically no discount (meaning that actually, you're paying more since you could generally find an order that big for 20% off somewhere).

Wow... just wow.

I just read the new Deff-Rolla rule for myself. I knew it'd been neutered, but I didn't realize how bad it was.

So now the Deffrolla does NOTHING to anything that it Tank Shokks unless that unit does a Death or Glory. Wow. So... i guess don't bother doing Death or Glory against a Battlewagon and you've got nothing to fear.

Ugh. Now I see why it only costs 10 points. Reinforced Rams it is then!

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong...

But I believe the +2 AV value from the deff rolla means it does a str 9 hit when ramming.

 greggles wrote:
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong...

But I believe the +2 AV value from the deff rolla means it does a str 9 hit when ramming.

That's correct. However, a Reinforced Ram adds +2 AV too, so there's not much point in paying the extra 5 points for the Deffrolla!

Wait, so I dident even SEE these before, I was so upset with everything else.

Kanz went to str 7, so you would have to smash to get up to 10 again.
Deffrollas now ONLY work on death or glory??? You cant even ram another vehicle for d3 str 10 hits??
Took it for granted for so long, but we LOST furious charge? So basically boyz hitting vehicles on the back armor is kaput? Sure we have grenades now, but I would rather take 30 or 40 str 4 attacks that hit on 3 rather than 10 str 6 attacks that hit on 5s.

Sure we have grenades now, but I would rather take 30 or 40 str 4 attacks that hit on 3 rather than 10 str 6 attacks that hit on 5s.

Are you sure those are krak grenades? My understanding was that they are assault grenades only.

 Orock wrote:
Wait, so I dident even SEE these before, I was so upset with everything else.

Kanz went to str 7, so you would have to smash to get up to 10 again.
Deffrollas now ONLY work on death or glory??? You cant even ram another vehicle for d3 str 10 hits??
Took it for granted for so long, but we LOST furious charge? So basically boyz hitting vehicles on the back armor is kaput? Sure we have grenades now, but I would rather take 30 or 40 str 4 attacks that hit on 3 rather than 10 str 6 attacks that hit on 5s.

Orks still have furious charge...

can walkers smash?

 PhillyT wrote:
Nobody is impressed with public displays of army crisis. Sell or don't sell. Who cares? More models on Bartertown for me.

This is a better book, any other tears are broken dreams and lost wish lists.

Not saying tears are justified or not, but you are absolutely beyond delusional if you think this is a "better" book.

 Orock wrote:
Wait, so I dident even SEE these before, I was so upset with everything else.

Kanz went to str 7, so you would have to smash to get up to 10 again.
Deffrollas now ONLY work on death or glory??? You cant even ram another vehicle for d3 str 10 hits??
Took it for granted for so long, but we LOST furious charge? So basically boyz hitting vehicles on the back armor is kaput? Sure we have grenades now, but I would rather take 30 or 40 str 4 attacks that hit on 3 rather than 10 str 6 attacks that hit on 5s.

1) Dreadnaughts don't get the "Smash" rule so your Kanz close combat attacks will always be 7. On the bright side, their Klaws aren't unwieldy, so they will strike at I2? Yay?
2) Yes, Deffrollas suck. They are a Reinforced Ram, that do D3 S10 AP4 hits on a unit that perfoms Death or Glory. Nothing else.
3) No, we did not lose Furious Charge.

So looted wagons are really not in the codex... WTF!

That's correct. However, a Reinforced Ram adds +2 AV too, so there's not much point in paying the extra 5 points for the Deffrolla!

Oh...well geez...time to say the deff rolla's I glued on "counts as rams".

Sure they didn't remove the +2 AV from the rams? (I don't have the codex right). That sounds like something they would do...

DeffRolla also offer some advantage in difficult terrain, no?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Orock wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
Nobody is impressed with public displays of army crisis. Sell or don't sell. Who cares? More models on Bartertown for me.

This is a better book, any other tears are broken dreams and lost wish lists.

Not saying tears are justified or not, but you are absolutely beyond delusional if you think this is a "better" book.

You guys are never going to agree so please stop arguing and saying the other one is "having a crisis" or is "delusional".

Thanks

 nflagey wrote:
DeffRolla also offer some advantage in difficult terrain, no?

Yup, but so do Reinforced Rams.

Unless there is errata in the digital codex I have in front of me, a Reinforced Ram does everything a Deffrolla does except the Death or Glory hits for 5 less points.

reroll DT tests, but rams do that too

One advantage Deff Rollas have in this edition is they save you 15 pts. when you replace them with Reinforced Rams on your three Battlewagons.

just zog off -.-

Honestly, I didn't get a single deff roll ram off with battlewagons over the course of the 30 or so games I played in 6th. The nerving hurts from an philosophical perspective but from a table top or army construction one, it isn't significant.

Now that dedicated wagons can get super cheap kill cannons, that will be the must take gun.

Do troops embarked in the wagon snap fire when the ordinance goes off? I don't think so but don't have my rule book here...

THE MEGANOBS WITH KILLSAWS LOOK BEAUTIFUL! it brings a tear to my warlords eye :'3

Cross posting:

mrfantastical wrote:
So bit of a memory jog from yesterday's breif look at the Ghazzy Waaagh Supplement:

1) There was a dread mob formation
* unit gains hammer of wrath that inflicts d3 wounds
*requires: 1 Big Mek, 1 Painboy, 2 Nauts, 3 deff dreds, 3 x 3 model unit of killa kanz

2) 3x 5 model MegaNob formation (all meganobz gain +1 WS, fear, & fearless)

3) there was a HQ formation
*requires: Ghazzy, grotznik, 1 big Mek, 2 warbosses, 1 unit of nobz
*all models in unit must deploy together
*models with IC cannot join or leave the unit
*as long as Waaagh banner is still alive all models in unit are fearless! and have +1 WS
*friendly Ork models within 12" reroll failed morale & pinning
*both Ork warbosses have +1WS
*make 2 rolls on Waaagh Ghazghull warlord traits (reroll duplicates) and apply both to Ghazzy


4) 5 Battlewagons (all battlewagons gain scout)
*all Battlewagons must have rams or deff rollas
*embarked units cannot charge if they go first

5) da vulcha boyz.
*requires 3 units of stormboyz & boss zagstruck
*all units must start in reserves and must arrive via deepstrike
*all hammer of wraith attacks gain shred
*may form all units into one big mob. Counts as 3 units for VP purposes when destroyed

6) snikrott formation
*requires snikrott! & 4 units of kommandos
*all units have the stealth rule replaced with shroud until the turn after they arrive
*snikrott must join one unit
*only make one roll for reserves for all units in formation
*all units in formation enter same board edge
*controlling player determines table edge
*on the turn they arrive if a unit doesn't shoot, it may reroll failed cover saves

7) greentide formation
(Covered previously)

I feel really upset about the loss of having a variety of playstyles from the new codex. However, the Ghazzy supplement seems to open up a lot of new avenues that we didn't have before. I don't know how formations work (whether they are apoc only, or if you can use this in casual games), but I think they will make a huge impact.

would ya look at that ! now you can put a KFF on anything !

I totally want to deepstrike 90 vulcha boys. lol

Those formations are pretty badass.

A blob of 90 Vulcha boyz will be almost impossible to place on the board, and will die to interceptor blasts and gak. But still pretty neat.

If it weren't for Inquisitors that battlewagon formation would be top tier. Sounds apocalypse only though

I love how they chose to word the battlewagon Deffrolla "bundle" http://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Deff-Rolla-Battlewagon

"Battlewagons are perfect for smashing through enemy formations, with their killkannon booming the hulking spiked deff rollas grind all opposition into the ground."

... NOT ANYMORE THEY AINT!

I'm still confused about these formations. Are they for apocalypse only or can they be used in regular games of 40K?

That meganobz formation looks amazing. WS6 fear fearless meganobz are amazing.

The 'HQ' formation gives +1 WS to everyone, an additional +1 to the warbosses and another +1 for the banner? So the warbosses are WS 8?

I know weapon skill doesn't really mean that much, but that's still kind of impressive.

decker_cky wrote:
That meganobz formation looks amazing. WS6 fear fearless meganobz are amazing.

WS 5 I believe but I agree 100% with you.

Dat's deard 'ard an' killy

 MrFlutterPie wrote:

decker_cky wrote:
That meganobz formation looks amazing. WS6 fear fearless meganobz are amazing.

WS 5 I believe but I agree 100% with you.

Dat's deard 'ard an' killy

Add lucky stikk and it's WS6.

decker_cky wrote:
That meganobz formation looks amazing. WS6 fear fearless meganobz are amazing.

This sounds like the rumored Nob formation that people were thinking was going to be in the main codex. I have all those models except for Ghaz - might be time to finally get one?

The warbosses will be Ws 7, ghazzie will be Ws 8 if it affects him. They all have rampage thanks to mr grotsnik himself and might aswell get the 4++ kff on the big mek :p


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ghazzie with 5 attacks standard + D3 for rampage + 2 for rage (if he manages to get that warlord trait) + 1 for a weirdboys warpath (if you manage to roll that) so a possible 11 attacks from the big ol' green himself at WS 7 maybe 8 :p

So no new bikes formation ? :|

* 2 rolls on Waaagh Ghazghull warlord traits (reroll duplicates) and apply both to Ghazzy*

ghazzy already has a warlord trait, so does that mean he gets 3!!!???

3 traits for ghazzy is how I'm reading it

Yeah, I think it's 3 traits for Ghaz indeed.

My question still stands, are these formations for apocalypse only?

I don't have the supplement in front of me but in all the leaked photos I've seen there isn't any mention of apocolypse

Rumblebee wrote:
I don't have the supplement in front of me but in all the leaked photos I've seen there isn't any mention of apocolypse

That's why I'm confused. With the ork warband (the codex one) I assumed it was for regular games, but some of these seem very powerful so I'm now realizing that maybe I'm being too optimistic. If we are correct and these are meant to be used in regular 40K then hot diggity damn! I now wanna make an ork warband and a deffwing.

If orkz go second, 5 battle wagons with scout move then move 6" then deploy boys or mega nobs 6", charge 2D6+2 with boarding planks a D6, who said orkz cant charge anymore ;D basically a 4" charge if they set up on the 12" line


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You can use formations in standard games as part of the CAD

Can those nobz get trukks I wonder? If so, they would be amazing!

 deffrekka wrote:
If orkz go second, 5 battle wagons with scout move then move 6" then deploy boys or mega nobs 6", charge 2D6+2 with boarding planks a D6, who said orkz cant charge anymore ;D basically a 4" charge if they set up on the 12" line


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You can use formations in standard games as part of the CAD

I. Love. This. Thank you for that information!

Well, I know for a fact I'll be making an ork warband as my horde army and the meganob formation, da deffwing, mounted in battlewagons made from land raiders with Ghaz and tellyport-blasta megameks. This is going to be great!

Combine the ghazzie hq formation with the battle wagon formation and the MANZ formation and holy mother of mork that's a whole load of hurt, just use a couple of BW's as decoys to cause confusion, then BAM! ghazzie rokkit unleashed!


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+ a sneaky 4++ kff on a bike trailing behind to give them all important invuns muahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Vulcha Skwad lets you take a crapload of Stormboyz without raping your FA slots. Combine with outflanking buggies/koptas, or warbikers as fast shooty wounds for a mek. Big Guns/Lootas at the back. Trukk MANz wave at the front.

Seems pretty legit, depending on how many formations you can get.

Do you get objective secured with these new formations or is that only with the standard FOC?

Hang on, the Waaagh Ghaz Dread Mob actually has more requirements and is worse than the one in the Apocalypse book? That one required only a minimum of 2 dreads and 2 mobs of 3 kanz and granted It Will Not Die and another random bonus.

 MrFlutterPie wrote:

decker_cky wrote:
That meganobz formation looks amazing. WS6 fear fearless meganobz are amazing.

WS 5 I believe but I agree 100% with you.

Dat's deard 'ard an' killy

WS4 + 1 for the formation + 1 for the Waagh! banner = WS6.

Only problem is, 91 deepstriking models haha


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Ork warlords and bosses all over the galaxy are clapping loudly whilst welling up at the sight of these formations. *starts playing the ork national anthem*

The Ghaz formation isn't great. Grotzsnik makes the unit fearless, so until he dies, the rule allowing fearless for the waagh banner is pointless.

I think the 91 model blob wouldn't really be feasible. For starters, what, a third of the model would get to attack in CC? And if they lose, they're not fearless - though that mob rule chart might still save them (I believe you'd need all characters to be dead and then roll the 2nd result to get them swept, something like that)

Edit:

Ork warlords and bosses all over the galaxy are clapping loudly whilst welling up at the sight of these formations. *starts playing the ork national anthem*

I know you guys don't give a feth as to what I do with my army, but this gak has me having second thoughts.

Wheres the codex bashers when you need them? I want to sell and go play something better.

Theyd be 3 pk nobs and zagstrukk, and you could just take 3 10 mans and then combine them together

91 model blob coming in by deep strike.

That's just asking for a mishap

 deffrekka wrote:
Theyd be 3 pk nobs and zagstrukk, and you could just take 3 10 mans and then combine them together

Yeah....that's actually a pretty awesome upgrade if you were already considering zagstrukk + 30.

That vulcha formation is 995pts + formation cost if you run everything full haha oh mork


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And the fact that zagstrukk and the stormboys wouldn't take up our precious hq and fa slots is an added bonus

 Dakkamite wrote:
Those formations are pretty badass.

A blob of 90 Vulcha boyz will be almost impossible to place on the board, and will die to interceptor blasts and gak. But still pretty neat.

If it weren't for Inquisitors that battlewagon formation would be top tier. Sounds apocalypse only though

Interceptor is not only rare as it is, it is not a thoroughly hard counter to so many massed boys being shoved down your throat at extremely close range. Even an optimised Tau interceptor contingent will probably only kill at max 15-20.

If it weren't for Inquisitors? Eh? Very, very, very few people will field Inquisitors in competitive play anymore because the prescience appeal is frankly dead given how easy opponents will deny that out the ass, making Coteaz the vastly superior option because he gives you so much more.

Letting one model disrupt a playstyle idea is a bit absurd, don't you think.

So what does the Telly-Porta Blasta thingy do?

12" str 8 ap 2 blast, 6's to wound is instant death 6's to pen is instant pen

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So what does the Telly-Porta Blasta thingy do?

range 12 s8 ap2 assault 1 blast

rolls of 6 to wound cause instant death or auto pen.

The new method of achieving external balance through bonus formations purchased as an extra seems to be GW's new business model for codex releases, we saw the same thing with tryanids.

 Toburk wrote:
The new method of achieving external balance through bonus formations purchased as an extra seems to be GW's new business model for codex releases, we saw the same thing with tryanids.

Pretty much.

Zagstruk should unlock storm boyz as troops and a warboss on a bike should unlock bikerz as troops. Both missed opportunities. Or its a deliberate plan to push unbound and its day 1 DLCs, the Ghaz book is $50 for what? a few formations and fluff? Combine that with "normalizing" super heavies and ramming ghaz into the lords of war as part of the standard dex and suddenly it becomes much harder to argue against these units in standard games.

I don't see what the big plan is, most people do not like super heavies or formations at all, and it being a permissive rule set you can say no to any pick up game. The only thing this hurts is competitive gamers or more specifically TOs who have to do tons more work to make the game fair(er). Because lets be honest, if you do zero restriction 40k the stupidity level is off the charts. I know GW has been actively attacking the competitive side of the hobby since 6th because they determine what "sucks" or not (and thus what sells more or less) but they got to see how this is the kind of stuff that had people leaving during 6th. Casual people cannot keep up with the changes, and no one wants to play a game where they have no control over the outcome.

People arte talking up playing all these ridiculous formations - you still have to *pay points for them* as well as the other stuff you'll need in an army not to get 100% tabled 2nd turn... people realize this, yes? For all the talk about being butthurt over an unbalanced codex, you guys seem to be making up some really untenable lists.

Can anybody confirm to what extent the supplement and the codex are compatible?
Relics?
Formation?

Wonderful looking models!!

$21 per plastic figure? no.

If you had a Combined Arms Detachment of 1 KFF Big Mek, 1 Painboy, and 2 units of Ork Boyz, could you add that Dread Mob formation to get:

1 KFF Big Mek, 1 Painboy, 30 Ork Boyz
1 KFF Big Mek, 1 Painboy, 30 Ork Boyz

1 Deff Dread
3 Killa Kanz

1 Deff Dread
3 Killa Kanz

1 Deff Dread
3 Killa Kanz

1 Gorka/Morkanaut
1 Gorka/Morkanaut

I'm not 100% sure how combined arms detachments and formations and codex and supplements work together.

 Toburk wrote:
The new method of achieving external balance through bonus formations purchased as an extra seems to be GW's new business model for codex releases, we saw the same thing with tryanids.

I doubt they see it that way.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Toburk wrote:
The new method of achieving external balance through bonus formations purchased as an extra seems to be GW's new business model for codex releases, we saw the same thing with tryanids.

Pretty much.

Zagstruk should unlock storm boyz as troops and a warboss on a bike should unlock bikerz as troops. Both missed opportunities. Or its a deliberate plan to push unbound and its day 1 DLCs, the Ghaz book is $50 for what? a few formations and fluff? Combine that with "normalizing" super heavies and ramming ghaz into the lords of war as part of the standard dex and suddenly it becomes much harder to argue against these units in standard games.

I don't see what the big plan is, most people do not like super heavies or formations at all, and it being a permissive rule set you can say no to any pick up game. The only thing this hurts is competitive gamers or more specifically TOs who have to do tons more work to make the game fair(er). Because lets be honest, if you do zero restriction 40k the stupidity level is off the charts. I know GW has been actively attacking the competitive side of the hobby since 6th because they determine what "sucks" or not (and thus what sells more or less) but they got to see how this is the kind of stuff that had people leaving during 6th. Casual people cannot keep up with the changes, and no one wants to play a game where they have no control over the outcome.

How is including Stompas in the codex or moving ghaz to low normalizing anything? Both models are unchanged from last edition and no more legal or illegal.

As far as most people disliking super heavies, who cares? If someone wants to buy and paint one, let them. If you don't want to play them, don't. But most players aren't willing to even give them a try.

So has anyone seen the rumored new plastic boss? A picture in the codex perhaps? Is that the final release next week? Or has that rumor been debunked?

 PhillyT wrote:
Honestly, I didn't get a single deff roll ram off with battlewagons over the course of the 30 or so games I played in 6th. The nerving hurts from an philosophical perspective but from a table top or army construction one, it isn't significant.

Now that dedicated wagons can get super cheap kill cannons, that will be the must take gun.

Do troops embarked in the wagon snap fire when the ordinance goes off? I don't think so but don't have my rule book here...

I won't try and imagine how you play, because that is pointless, but I think your anecdote means little of nothing. I probably Deffrolled something every game in 5th and 6th. This is something along the lines of 70-80 games. I can probably count on one had how many games I didn't Deffroll and those were games I was tabled on turn 2.

Also, I'm not picking sides here, because I don't have the codex, nor do I know if I will, but you sir, are getting my trophy for overly optimistic. Honestly, I think you might be trollin' you're so optimistic.

Wow. Nobz are AUD$27 each. How much were they in FineCost?

I always took deff rollas, but I generally did better to disembark once in range to try a deff roll. You can't do both. Similarly, shooting units in wagons were there to shoot. I wasn't about to deff roll troops, I took them to crush vehicles and after 6th rolled around I couldn't get close enough to do it. When a rolla wagon got near, all guns either turned on it or vehicles just measured 12" and put themselves on the edge.

Because of flat out, a vehicle that doesn't want to be deff rolled will just leave. I'll miss the upgrade since it at least forced a response, but I'll just transition to kill kannons.

And I think you will find that most ork players had similar deff rolla experiences in 6th.


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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wow. Nobz are AUD$27 each. How much were they in FineCost?

Not sure in au, but in the us $19.99 so they are about $1 more each now.

Pretty much the same cost, when you factor in the grot though!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wow. Nobz are AUD$27 each. How much were they in FineCost?

Old Meganobz (finecast) are still on the US website, at $22.25 a piece, so the new box of 3 is actually a better deal.

 PhillyT wrote:
Not sure in au, but in the us $19.99 so they are about $1 more each now.

You mean they went to plastic and went up in price?

 PhillyT wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Toburk wrote:
The new method of achieving external balance through bonus formations purchased as an extra seems to be GW's new business model for codex releases, we saw the same thing with tryanids.

Pretty much.

Zagstruk should unlock storm boyz as troops and a warboss on a bike should unlock bikerz as troops. Both missed opportunities. Or its a deliberate plan to push unbound and its day 1 DLCs, the Ghaz book is $50 for what? a few formations and fluff? Combine that with "normalizing" super heavies and ramming ghaz into the lords of war as part of the standard dex and suddenly it becomes much harder to argue against these units in standard games.

I don't see what the big plan is, most people do not like super heavies or formations at all, and it being a permissive rule set you can say no to any pick up game. The only thing this hurts is competitive gamers or more specifically TOs who have to do tons more work to make the game fair(er). Because lets be honest, if you do zero restriction 40k the stupidity level is off the charts. I know GW has been actively attacking the competitive side of the hobby since 6th because they determine what "sucks" or not (and thus what sells more or less) but they got to see how this is the kind of stuff that had people leaving during 6th. Casual people cannot keep up with the changes, and no one wants to play a game where they have no control over the outcome.

How is including Stompas in the codex or moving ghaz to low normalizing anything? Both models are unchanged from last edition and no more legal or illegal.

As far as most people disliking super heavies, who cares? If someone wants to buy and paint one, let them. If you don't want to play them, don't. But most players aren't willing to even give them a try.

Minor change, but Ghaz DID lose an attack. Andamantium skull used to grant 2 attacks on the charge and eternal warrior. now just eternal warrior.


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 PhillyT wrote:
I always took deff rollas, but I generally did better to disembark once in range to try a deff roll. You can't do both. Similarly, shooting units in wagons were there to shoot. I wasn't about to deff roll troops, I took them to crush vehicles and after 6th rolled around I couldn't get close enough to do it. When a rolla wagon got near, all guns either turned on it or vehicles just measured 12" and put themselves on the edge.

Because of flat out, a vehicle that doesn't want to be deff rolled will just leave. I'll miss the upgrade since it at least forced a response, but I'll just transition to kill kannons.

And I think you will find that most ork players had similar deff rolla experiences in 6th.


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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wow. Nobz are AUD$27 each. How much were they in FineCost?

Not sure in au, but in the us $19.99 so they are about $1 more each now.

Nope, used to deff rolla the crap out of stuff regularly. Often killed land raiders, tyranid warriors insta death, dreadnaughts, aegis lines with quad guns, bastions, you name it. You are definatley the odd man out with no ramming speed shenanigans.

If an opponent left a land raider within 12" of a deff rolla, they couldn't have been trying very hard. Land raiders can back up 12" and still shoot you with an assault cannon at full bs.

 nflagey wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wow. Nobz are AUD$27 each. How much were they in FineCost?

Old Meganobz (finecast) are still on the US website, at $22.25 a piece, so the new box of 3 is actually a better deal.

Oh, god. They actually increased the price of the finecast ones to make the plastic kit look more reasonable.

They were $20USD a very short time ago. ($30CAD each!)

At least they aren't centurions!

Looking at the sprues for the meganobs I noticed that the shootas are actually two pieces, one for the gun itself, and then a second to make it either twin-linked or a kombi weapon, which is a nice design.

I also can't shake the feeling killsaws were originally going to be lightning claws. All due to the name, the appearance, that they come in pairs, and now that meganobs can clearly be modeled with stikkbombs, which are otherwise useless.

The double-chainsword killsaw piece looks really cool. I can't wait to see someone build and paint one.

 PhillyT wrote:
At least they aren't centurions!

That should NOT be the gold standard of when a model is acceptable.

 Toburk wrote:

 nflagey wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wow. Nobz are AUD$27 each. How much were they in FineCost?

Old Meganobz (finecast) are still on the US website, at $22.25 a piece, so the new box of 3 is actually a better deal.

Oh, god. They actually increased the price of the finecast ones to make the plastic kit look more reasonable.

They were $20USD a very short time ago. ($30CAD each!)

They've been $22.25 for years now, so they actually DIDN'T increase the prices for once. And I agree that the 3 box is a better deal - lotsa bits, lotsa customisation options, and they look great. Plus a grot.

In the latest WDW there's a section about how MANz have evolved since their first incarnations, and it looks like they're BIGGER than the old ones. Pretty snazzy.

Having an actual Ork Codex in my hands, I will actually give GW some credit where it is due:

This is a really nicely produced and designed Codex. I'm still not happy with a lot of things (many of which aren't related to power level at all), but the organization and layout is fantastic!

The Barbarous Hordes is the'fluff' part of the codex, and it is first, and looks and reads nicely.

The Ork Warbands, or the 'ooh, shiny!' picture section, is next and really does look great.

Then there's the Forces of the Orks. This is the units and upgrades. All of the stuff you pay points for is together in one section. The wargear list, then the 'datasheets' for every unit. Those are really well designed, and I really think that whoever laid them out for the iPad did a great job and ported over a really clean, sensible organization for the print Codex.

After that is the Appendix with ALL of the rules. The FOC and Formation, the rules for all the weapons, gear, upgrades, etc. Then, at the end of the book are the reference sheets.

It's really a fantastic layout and I really applaud them for it. You use the Forces of the Orks to make an army list, referring to the appendix as needed. Once you've made an army list, you probably only need to refer to the reference sheets during gameplay.

It is, by far, the best organization I have ever seen in a Codex.


I am still really disappointed by the removal or denial of really minor customization, especially given the Ork miniature range's flexibility. Why can't a nob have 'eavy armor in a mob without it? Why can't a Flash Gitz Kaptin take any Melee weapon upgrades? Why can't nobs or meganobs take Bionik bodies? I mean, GW makes bionic arms, legs, and heads for nobs, right there on the sprue! What's the big deal? We can all lament a loss of power or complain about nerfs, but this is what really hurts me. We have ork players who have modeled these things with time and effort, and you can't take them any longer. I have a whole unit of Death Skull cyborks, all of whom have bionics, with the nobs with 'power klaws's using the bionic arms from the nobs box, and other orks using the bionic leg and arms from the Flash Gits, as well as tons of bionic heads. I don't really care how effective bioniks are in the codex. I'm just upset that some of my orks who are clearly modeled with bionics (Ghaz, Grotsnikk) can have them, and others who are clearly modeled with bionics (old Waagh Banner bearer with bionic arm, Kommando Nob with Bionic arm) don't.

Codex in hand - SAG got a bit better - rolling snake eyes only results in the Big Mek being removed rather than extending out D6. So he can safely be placed in any units without fear of killing them on a bad roll. Went down 5pts too, so a gitfinda is more or less free

[MOD EDIT - DAKKA DAKKA IN NO WAY CONDONES ILLEGALLY OBTAINING...ANYTHING. - Alpharius]


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 Multimoog wrote:
Codex in hand - SAG got a bit better - rolling snake eyes only results in the Big Mek being removed rather than extending out D6. So he can safely be placed in any units without fear of killing them on a bad roll. Went down 5pts too, so a gitfinda is more or less free

That is good news. I did that TWICE during a single ard boys tourny.

Double 1's was my very first roll on my very first game on my very first Ard boys Semi Finals round.


Let's just say that It was clearely downhill from there.

48/50 is what I placed that day... : ( It was a sad day for me.
Then my friend who took his meganob army got 2nd.

Don't request illegal stuff on here.

To answer H.M.B.C's question from earlier: meganobz used to be $39 AUD each, so they've gone down substantially in price for us.

Tip: if you bought the eBook version of the Codex, screenshots of any of the Clan portraits make great tablet/smartphone wallpaper. I really like the new artwork.

Da Butcha wrote:
Having an actual Ork Codex in my hands, I will actually give GW some credit where it is due:

This is a really nicely produced and designed Codex. I'm still not happy with a lot of things (many of which aren't related to power level at all), but the organization and layout is fantastic!

The Barbarous Hordes is the'fluff' part of the codex, and it is first, and looks and reads nicely.

The Ork Warbands, or the 'ooh, shiny!' picture section, is next and really does look great.

Then there's the Forces of the Orks. This is the units and upgrades. All of the stuff you pay points for is together in one section. The wargear list, then the 'datasheets' for every unit. Those are really well designed, and I really think that whoever laid them out for the iPad did a great job and ported over a really clean, sensible organization for the print Codex.

After that is the Appendix with ALL of the rules. The FOC and Formation, the rules for all the weapons, gear, upgrades, etc. Then, at the end of the book are the reference sheets.

It's really a fantastic layout and I really applaud them for it. You use the Forces of the Orks to make an army list, referring to the appendix as needed. Once you've made an army list, you probably only need to refer to the reference sheets during gameplay.

It is, by far, the best organization I have ever seen in a Codex.


I am still really disappointed by the removal or denial of really minor customization, especially given the Ork miniature range's flexibility. Why can't a nob have 'eavy armor in a mob without it? Why can't a Flash Gitz Kaptin take any Melee weapon upgrades? Why can't nobs or meganobs take Bionik bodies? I mean, GW makes bionic arms, legs, and heads for nobs, right there on the sprue! What's the big deal? We can all lament a loss of power or complain about nerfs, but this is what really hurts me. We have ork players who have modeled these things with time and effort, and you can't take them any longer. I have a whole unit of Death Skull cyborks, all of whom have bionics, with the nobs with 'power klaws's using the bionic arms from the nobs box, and other orks using the bionic leg and arms from the Flash Gits, as well as tons of bionic heads. I don't really care how effective bioniks are in the codex. I'm just upset that some of my orks who are clearly modeled with bionics (Ghaz, Grotsnikk) can have them, and others who are clearly modeled with bionics (old Waagh Banner bearer with bionic arm, Kommando Nob with Bionic arm) don't.

Not disagreeing with your minor customization gripes....but I have to ask why a flashgit would have a CC weapon. Quite bluntly these orks are all about the gun in rules and in fluff...can't help but feel if the kaptain didn't have a huge gun they'd just boot him out of the flash gits mob........and it's not like you could have a powerklaw and operate a beast of a weapon like that . Also......aren't bionics just cybork upgrades? Only been playing since the tail end of the 3rd ed ork book...so perhaps I'm missing some things.

On topic...overall I'm quite happy with the book, sad about a few minor things,.....but considering my gut reaction has been that I need to get converting on more buggies and I need even MORE boyz I'd say mission accomplished. Plus....I need to mod a SAG on a bike with a box like sidecar labelled with a crossed out Grots with Ammo underneath.

Edit: having look around at posts lately a bit more..... Singlepose finecast meganobz were $30 a piece Canadian and have been for a few years...I know this as 100% fact as I have bought some and believe me....they haven't been cheaper in a long god damn while. A new plastic kit with loads of options and a big mek in mega armor for about $15 less than 3 finecast ones....yeah...I call that an amazing deal. If it seems crap to you because you have to pay for bitz you don't need/want I have zero care for your opinion on that matter as it is directly opposed to my want/need of MOAR BITZ. As for Ghazzie being lord of war...the reason seems pretty damn obvious as to why he changed looking at the formations. Seems to be more than one formation that would give your warboss a waaaagh every turn past the first, so if ghazzie was still a warboss he'd have a 2+/2++ save every turn past turn one making him BROKEN beyond belief, hence the switch to LoW is my reasoning. He can still be warlord so it really only stops every turn's a waaaagh shenanigans.

waaaagh ghaz is pretty cool. you can take snikrot and 4 units of commandos and come in from any table edge with shrouded.

one per army stuff.
a mega force field for a 4+ invuln to shooting, for models within 6"

supa cybork fnp 5+, enternal warrior and relentless.

warlord trait, we can have our warlord get a BS of 3
crusader
rage
outflank
master crafted weapon
FNP

and the ever fun green tide, 10 units of boys and a warboss, and some signs of sanity from GW. If the tide gets a breaking head or squabble, you allocate the wounds and again a waaagh every turn.

no ork mission cards or pyschic powers cards. for that kind of money you'd think they'd be included as well.

The More Speed, Go Fasta objective can be achieved by turbo-boosting, going flat out or RUNNING with three units during a turn. I didn't know about that last part! That will be the easiest VP my army gets, being a sloghorde.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sirlynchmob wrote:

and the ever fun green tide, 10 units of boys and a warboss, and some signs of sanity from GW. If the tide gets a breaking head or squabble, you allocate the wounds and again a waaagh every turn.

DOUBLE-YOU

TEE

EFF

I prayed for this to happeeeeeennnnnnnnn

Does it say if it can be taken as a primary detachment??

Oh, also I have to ask.

Would you guys advice on getting a gorka/mork bot?

I never used any of the Ork mechs before. However, I have the feeling that this will finally open the mist for me to open up my list to use a more Freebooter / Bad Moon type list.

From what i hear, Meganobs are suppose to be pretty good with some new toys they got. Tank Busters and Flash Gitz I think were mentioned in a positive way for the most part and I just bought one of those Mek Guns to paint etc.

Basically I can forsee myself running maybe

HQ: Mek with SAG
HQ: Mad Doc
Elites: Tank Bustas maybe? I got a group of ten old metal ones I never used before. Throw in Snikro and Kommandos maybe.

Heavy: Probably Fill it with like 2 troops of Lootas and a troop of Flashies. Not sure how Flash Gitz compare to Lootas now that gitz got a bump to some much needed stuff.

Should I invest in Meks and forget about Tank Busters and Lootas? Just have one troop of each? What do you think?

 Multimoog wrote:
The More Speed, Go Fasta objective can be achieved by turbo-boosting, going flat out or RUNNING with three units during a turn. I didn't know about that last part! That will be the easiest VP my army gets, being a sloghorde.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sirlynchmob wrote:

and the ever fun green tide, 10 units of boys and a warboss, and some signs of sanity from GW. If the tide gets a breaking head or squabble, you allocate the wounds and again a waaagh every turn.

DOUBLE-YOU

TEE

EFF

I prayed for this to happeeeeeennnnnnnnn

Does it say if it can be taken as a primary detachment??

You could put two+ KFFs on the front to shield the front of the blob, and a single Painboy gives the entire thing FNP. You can have at least 10 big shootas. Even if you only had the bare minimum of 100 shoota boyz and a warboss with a bosspole you'd only be paying 765 points. Two KFF Big Meks and a Painboy don't even bring it to 1250.

PLEASE LET THIS RUMOR BE ACCURATE

Orktavius wrote:

Not disagreeing with your minor customization gripes....but I have to ask why a flashgit would have a CC weapon. Quite bluntly these orks are all about the gun in rules and in fluff...can't help but feel if the kaptain didn't have a huge gun they'd just boot him out of the flash gits mob........and it's not like you could have a powerklaw and operate a beast of a weapon like that .

Well, given that the Kaptin (or any Git in his mob) can be given a choppa, held in a bionik fist, provided for you right there on the sprue...would probably be why I think he should be able to take a klaw. I can certainly see banning him from having a 'uge choppa! It isn't a gameplay concern, but rather a defense of the orky modeler. Given that you can make Gitz with bionik bits, why not let them take Cybork bodies? Given that you can use a nob power klaw on a git, why not let the Kaptin take one? I mean, after all, he's the flashiest git in a unit of flash gitz, right?

I do see some valid gameplay concerns in the codex. I don't see why Stormboys need to be so vulnerable when moving as fast as possible. I don't see why Mob Rule needs to be so detrimental to ork numbers. I don't see why you can't EVER crush someone with a Death Rolla unless they are standing there doing a Death or Glory attack (in which case, you hit them, and 0-2 of their mates who aren't standing around)*. I do think that the changes to open topped vehicles (vs. template weapons) merged with the changes to Ramshackle really hinder trukk boys.

I guess I'm just more sad about loss of options and punishing modelers who converted stuff lovingly. When you hurt the competitive gamers, that's bad. When you hurt the people who love your game so much they buy extra bits just to make fun models, that's insanity.

*Wouldn't a more sensible rule for the Death Roller be that it could cause some hits during any tank shock, but always causes at least 1 more during Death or Glory (the poor sod who stands there?) It just seems like a massive spiked roller mowing through your unit should be, in some way, more dangerous than a tracked Rhino doing the same thing. Hell, you could give it a penalty to the tank shock morale test, reflecting the chance that it crunches and scatters the unit.

 Multimoog wrote:

 Multimoog wrote:
The More Speed, Go Fasta objective can be achieved by turbo-boosting, going flat out or RUNNING with three units during a turn. I didn't know about that last part! That will be the easiest VP my army gets, being a sloghorde.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sirlynchmob wrote:

and the ever fun green tide, 10 units of boys and a warboss, and some signs of sanity from GW. If the tide gets a breaking head or squabble, you allocate the wounds and again a waaagh every turn.

DOUBLE-YOU

TEE

EFF

I prayed for this to happeeeeeennnnnnnnn


Does it say if it can be taken as a primary detachment??

You could put two+ KFFs on the front to shield the front of the blob, and a single Painboy gives the entire thing FNP. You can have at least 10 big shootas. Even if you only had the bare minimum of 100 shoota boyz and a warboss with a bosspole you'd only be paying 765 points. Two KFF Big Meks and a Painboy don't even bring it to 1250.

PLEASE LET THIS RUMOR BE ACCURATE

Is it one big unit? If so if you give that warboss mega armor and lucky stikks... Allocating those wounds for mob rule wont be so bad

Can't it not hit characters still?

Waagh! Ghazghkull Thraka is pretty awesome.

Bundling it in with the Collector's Edition was a good move on GW's part.

 Billagio wrote:


Is it one big unit? If so if you give that warboss mega armor and lucky stikks... Allocating those wounds for mob rule wont be so bad

If it plays the same as in Apoc it's one big unit. I wouldn't give the boss MA to keep it mobile as possible. I wouldn't even worry about applying mob rule for the first turn or two - FNP and 5++ will keep the losses to a minimum, plus you have Warboss LD and bosspoles to reroll on. You'd have to roll 1's consistently to even have a chance at failing Mob Rule. IC Buffs keep you from losing models to it as well.

It would be a giant Ork-filled deffrolla!

The grot oiler in the meganobz kit is wonderful.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Multimoog wrote:

 Billagio wrote:


Is it one big unit? If so if you give that warboss mega armor and lucky stikks... Allocating those wounds for mob rule wont be so bad

If it plays the same as in Apoc it's one big unit. I wouldn't give the boss MA to keep it mobile as possible. I wouldn't even worry about applying mob rule for the first turn or two - FNP and 5++ will keep the losses to a minimum, plus you have Warboss LD and bosspoles to reroll on. You'd have to roll 1's consistently to even have a chance at failing Mob Rule. IC Buffs keep you from losing models to it as well.

It would be a giant Ork-filled deffrolla!

That made me think of having a deffrolla cage full of orks, all getting angry and flailing around.

The Green Tide is one big unit which counts as 11 units for VP. It also has "Biggest an' da Best" and "Da Boss iz Watchin'" special rules as it comes from the Waagh! Ghazghkull book.

Worth mentioning that "Biggest an' da Best" is something you'll really get a hell of a use out of with a Warboss in the Green Tide. You are required to issue challenges and accept them, but if you kill an enemy character in a challenge and the Warboss is your Warlord? You get to reroll all failed To Wound rolls in close combat for the rest of the game with that Ork.

I'm loving the idea of a Green Tide led by a Mega Armored Warboss with Choppa of Da Ragnarork ( S+2 AP 5 2 handed with the "Grand Destiny" special rule. At the end of any Assault phase in which the bearer of the Choppa of da Ragnarork inflicted one or more casualties, the weapon's Strength modifier is increased by 1 and its AP value is lowered by 1. These effects are cumulative and last the rest of the battle. It caps out at Strength +6 and AP1) and "Big Bosspole" which means any unit with the Orks faction joined by the bearer of the Big Bosspole has the Fearless special rule.

Guess what? All 10 units of Boyz(no size limitation ATM, so you can do a mob of 10...or a mob of 30 per mob!) now become Fearless.

That sounds so fething awesome. 100+ boyz with a painboy, warboss with big bosspole and lucky stikks, maybe some KFF meks for good measure. Can the unit take nobs as well?


The biggest downside is that assault is kinda wonky. You can assault 1 unit and get furios charge and extra attacks and all that, but you arnt really using the unit effectivly, or you can multi assault, but im not a real big fan of that..

 Kanluwen wrote:
The Green Tide is one big unit which counts as 11 units for VP. It also has "Biggest an' da Best" and "Da Boss iz Watchin'" special rules as it comes from the Waagh! Ghazghkull book.

Worth mentioning that "Biggest an' da Best" is something you'll really get a hell of a use out of with a Warboss in the Green Tide. You are required to issue challenges and accept them, but if you kill an enemy character in a challenge and the Warboss is your Warlord? You get to reroll all failed To Wound rolls in close combat for the rest of the game with that Ork.

I'm loving the idea of a Green Tide led by a Mega Armored Warboss with Choppa of Da Ragnarork ( S+2 AP 5 2 handed with the "Grand Destiny" special rule. At the end of any Assault phase in which the bearer of the Choppa of da Ragnarork inflicted one or more casualties, the weapon's Strength modifier is increased by 1 and its AP value is lowered by 1. These effects are cumulative and last the rest of the battle. It caps out at Strength +6 and AP1) and "Big Bosspole" which means any unit with the Orks faction joined by the bearer of the Big Bosspole has the Fearless special rule.

Guess what? All 10 units of Boyz(no size limitation ATM, so you can do a mob of 10...or a mob of 30 per mob!) now become Fearless.

I'm tempted to get the book just for da Choppa of Da Ragnarork. In a trukk, with painboy and 10 nobz, flat out first turn, enough saves for explodes! not to be a problem, charge second turn, rampage through everything. Charge Marneus (or any other good armour, bad initiative character that is available), issue a challenge and watch them cry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Billagio wrote:
That sounds so fething awesome. 100+ boyz with a painboy, warboss with big bosspole and lucky stikks, maybe some KFF meks for good measure. Can the unit take nobs as well?


The biggest downside is that assault is kinda wonky. You can assault 1 unit and get furios charge and extra attacks and all that, but you arnt really using the unit effectivly, or you can multi assault, but im not a real big fan of that..

I believe green tide ignores disordered charges.

 Toburk wrote:

 nflagey wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wow. Nobz are AUD$27 each. How much were they in FineCost?

Old Meganobz (finecast) are still on the US website, at $22.25 a piece, so the new box of 3 is actually a better deal.

Oh, god. They actually increased the price of the finecast ones to make the plastic kit look more reasonable.

They were $20USD a very short time ago. ($30CAD each!)

They have been $22.25 for at least a year.

I can see myself running that Green Tide formation A LOT. My only problem is I lack Boyz. I think I have roughly 120 or so, but I'd want MORE :O I can see this list being annoying as gak for our opponents though, but thankfully I'm fast at placing/moving models now, so it's not too horrible, unless we play on one of those awkward tables that have a lot of hills, making models topple and takes more time.

This is just too much good news for me, and that alone makes me want the supplement even more, knowing it isn't a total waste. All the formations that have been confirmed seem fun and Orky in every way, even if not exactly feasible. Count me in for this one.

I've run Green Tide in Apoc games a few times and even with D blasts I don't lose all that many boyz

Nice to see people perking up a bit at the supplement anyway, the proclamations of doom and gloom have been tempering my excitement somewhat (even if I don't subscribe to them). Time will tell how the base codex fares against the others...for my part, for all the wailing and gnashing of teeth that's been going on the last week I'm expecting many a cry of "broken!" and "Orks are OP!" from hapless squishy enemies when they see a unit of Meganobz move 6" in a battlewagon, disembark another 6", and then charge 2d6+2" with a reroll to get them into combat from something like 20" away. Add in a painboy and a Mega-armoured warboss with the lucky stikk, mind out for combat-optimized enemy HQs, and watch the bodies pile up.

So from the WDW it looks like you can get a MA Mek out of the new Mega Nobz kit too. With KFF and Tellyporta Blasta options as well as some pretty damn sweet looking weapon options

Can someone post a pic of the green tide formation? Id love to be able to use it this weekend. Ignoring disordered charges? With all those other bonuses? Thats so good.


Also, can you take nobs in there as well?

New Nobs look pretty sick there is no doubt.

I just wish I still had gotten 2 more Metal MN before these kits came out. That way I would have a squad of 10 metals.

Anyway, I will be picking them up sometime in the next couple of weeks or so.


So, what all is new in the codex that has never been seen before?

Gorkanought, Jets, and new Guns is all I seen so far.

What I mean by new is a Named character, or a model that never existed before. Meganobs and looted wagons do not count as they were already in the previous codex.

 Vasarto wrote:
New Nobs look pretty sick there is no doubt.

I just wish I still had gotten 2 more Metal MN before these kits came out. That way I would have a squad of 10 metals.

Anyway, I will be picking them up sometime in the next couple of weeks or so.


So, what all is new in the codex that has never been seen before?

Gorkanought, Jets, and new Guns is all I seen so far.

What I mean by new is a Named character, or a model that never existed before. Meganobs and looted wagons do not count as they were already in the previous codex.

Thus far from what people have said, there are nothing all new to the codex other than the Naut and the new Gunz. We lost a few named characters, and gained no new ones. At least, not yet anyway. Unless they release another supplement. I swore there was a rumor about a supplement in the works for Blood Axes? Who knows. We will have to wait and see.

Off to get my codex, literally had no sleep as im that excited

How exactly do these formations work with the normal 40k ruleset?

Dragonzord wrote:
How exactly do these formations work with the normal 40k ruleset?

I imagine that the formation will simply be one detachment. You can then add additional attachments around that.

Ok I just saw what the inside of the new Ork 'Dex looks like.

Army list rolled into the main section, heavily reduced fluff in favour of a brief column description, and no new artwork for each unit - just a picture of the Official™ Citadel™ Miniature™. It feels more tacky, and the lack of new artwork is not a good thing.

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
To answer H.M.B.C's question from earlier: meganobz used to be $39 AUD each, so they've gone down substantially in price for us.

Ok good. That's fine... well... it's not fine. The price is still twice as much as it really should be, but cheaper is better than not cheaper.

I just realised. Warboss edition = $180

Codex = $85
Supplement = $85

so that means its only $10 for an awesome box, collectors stuff and objective markers? Totally worth it!

Dragonzord wrote:
I just realised. Warboss edition = $180

Codex = $85
Supplement = $85

so that means its only $10 for an awesome box, collectors stuff and objective markers? Totally worth it!

...and the Data Cards, which are actually quite handy. Good deal if you wanted the supplement anyway.

In the UK, the box and objective markers cost the same as a whole other book.

Yeah,
Happy Codex Day everybody!

Been busy getting ready.
Grot Tanks and new boss painted.


Panic...

Dragonzord wrote:
I just realised. Warboss edition = $180

Codex = $85
Supplement = $85

so that means its only $10 for an awesome box, collectors stuff and objective markers? Totally worth it!

$85? The books should only be running you $50 per. You're paying 80 bucks for art books, box, and markers along with the cards.

Melevolence wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:
I just realised. Warboss edition = $180

Codex = $85
Supplement = $85

so that means its only $10 for an awesome box, collectors stuff and objective markers? Totally worth it!

$85? The books should only be running you $50 per. You're paying 80 bucks for art books, box, and markers along with the cards.

Australia.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Perfect Organism wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:
I just realised. Warboss edition = $180

Codex = $85
Supplement = $85

so that means its only $10 for an awesome box, collectors stuff and objective markers? Totally worth it!

...and the Data Cards, which are actually quite handy. Good deal if you wanted the supplement anyway.

In the UK, the box and objective markers cost the same as a whole other book.

There is no data cards in the warboss edition.

Melevolence wrote:

 Vasarto wrote:
New Nobs look pretty sick there is no doubt.

I just wish I still had gotten 2 more Metal MN before these kits came out. That way I would have a squad of 10 metals.

Anyway, I will be picking them up sometime in the next couple of weeks or so.


So, what all is new in the codex that has never been seen before?

Gorkanought, Jets, and new Guns is all I seen so far.

What I mean by new is a Named character, or a model that never existed before. Meganobs and looted wagons do not count as they were already in the previous codex.

Thus far from what people have said, there are nothing all new to the codex other than the Naut and the new Gunz. We lost a few named characters, and gained no new ones. At least, not yet anyway. Unless they release another supplement. I swore there was a rumor about a supplement in the works for Blood Axes? Who knows. We will have to wait and see.

Blood axes eh.

I am kinda hoping for a freebooters / Bad moons supp. That is what I think I want to do with my Ork army now. I just said feth it and accepted I need to evolve past Nob Troop choices in Trukks with Invulnerable saves and running Slugga choppa boys.

Gonna go with More heavy hitters and much lower numbers and see how that goes. You know! Use my tank hunters for the first time, use some of them new flash gits and HEY! I just picked up a Mek Gun today! I chose to go wiff da Kustom Mega Kannon option as I think its da best option if ya not tank hunting or sky firing.

Codex is out now so this thread is no longer needed.

Hope everyone has fun with the new book.