Dang I didn't realize how far behind I was, my local shop hadn't had any White Dwarfs for 3 weeks, plus I hadn't been on here much to catch up...

Been reading the thread and it's got a lot of information, still going through it though. One of the best threads for information.

Have a Mek, an Ork 'dex enroute. Can't wait to get the green tide up and running. Still though, a bit cautious about the Trukk Mobs.
Multimoog, I'd like to see that 30 Ork mob in action! I don't think I've seen a mob that big.

Another random question, but do Orks still have furious charge?

 Charles Rampant wrote:
I'm still a little boggled that they didn't improve the dive-bombers at all. I've never even seen a Blitza-Bomba model. What does it look like? Is it nice?

I thought they improved it massively? Large blast instead of small, AP 2 instead of 4, less chance to go wrong.

Wow all.those relic weapons are terrible.. who cares if its +6str and ap1 if it takes 4 aassault phases.. power klaw is always s10 ap2! No reason to ever use the relic klaw either.. you should always ignore any ability that says "exchange all attacks for..." unless you have no other choice..

The non weapon relics aren't good either but collated to other options they might as well be godly.

Is there even a purpose to the ghazghull supplement? You have to always challenge which is huge detriment..take more hits on average from mob rule.. although not falling back could be okay if you survive, have awful relics and beyond awful warlord traits. At least one of the traits isn't fear? Do they plan on selling this due to customer naivete? On top of that ghaz himself suffered a massive nerf due to low status

 Daveh wrote:
So take the big Boss pole and have fearless orks again. Sorted.

Or take Grotsnik and get Fearless, Feel No Pain and Rampage.

I see that the Warlord Traits and Kustom Gubbinz are only available for detachments and formations chosen from the supplement (and compulsory for them, it seems). I guess that's the new pattern.

The Boss iz Watchin' rule seems really bad; if I'm reading it right it changes the mob rule to a Squabble on a 2+ and increases the number of hits you take. That's a huge nerf and it seems like exactly the opposite of what the description suggests it should do.

Or take grotsnik and a big mek with the big bosspole and you have 2 units fearless.

"The boss iz watchin'" is pretty neat for units with armor saves, since you can no longer fail against shooting and the additional hits can be caught by FNP/armor.

Bikes come to mind here.

 Jidmah wrote:
"The boss iz watchin'" is pretty neat for units with armor saves, since you can no longer fail against shooting and the additional hits can be caught by FNP/armor.

Bikes come to mind here.

If I remember the chart properly isn't it:

1: auto-fail, unless in combat, then auto-pass
2-3: if a character is in the mob take D6 hits and pass, or otherwise fail
4-6:if 10 or more models, take D6 hits and pass, or otherwise fail

With +2 to the chart and the hit change it becomes:
1:if a character is in the mob, take 3+D3 hits and pass, or otherwise fail
2-6: if 10 or more models, take 3+D3 hits and pass, or otherwise fail

So any unit with less than 10 models fails the mob rule table on a 2+ even if they have a character, and auto-fails if they don't, even if they are in close combat.

This seems like an enormous nerf for anything other than mobs of 30 boyz that don't have a character/bosspole. I either didn't read the fuzzy picture properly or GW did something terrible and nonsensical.

This new mob rule is a lot like Synapse. Its an inbuilt way for 'normal' armies to handle super hordes. If you kill a tyranid player's limited and expensive synapse, the army falls apart. Consistent shooting against orks makes their boyz kill themselves.

The problem is... the devs don't seem to realize just how much firepower is being brought to games now. This isn't about 4 tactical squads and a dreadnought. This is 2 scout squads, 3 thunderfire cannons, and a bunch of grav/hurricane bolter centurions. "Normal" armies have absolutely no trouble removing hordes, much less having the hordes self destruct.

 dan2026 wrote:
Dont know why people are so bothered about Wazdakka being removed. Zhadsnark always seemed like the better bet anyway.

A power klaw that hits at I4 is fine by me.

is it?
the new faq says nothin about ini 4...
seems to me like a normal powerclaw


imperial armour 8 FAQ:
www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/d/Dred_Mob.pdf

 Toburk wrote:
or GW did something terrible and nonsensical.

That simply never happens.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RedNoak wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Dont know why people are so bothered about Wazdakka being removed. Zhadsnark always seemed like the better bet anyway.

A power klaw that hits at I4 is fine by me.

is it?
the new faq says nothin about ini 4...
seems to me like a normal powerclaw


imperial armour 8 FAQ:
www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/d/Dred_Mob.pdf

It's not Unwieldy, so it strikes at initiative.

So, basically, Codex: Orks is a bit meh.. and the Supplement is where all the good toys are?

Huh, true.

The entire supplement looks bad though, wouldn't ever want that as my main army. Bad warlord traits, overcosted and situational relics and no real advantage over the regular ork codex anywhere. Unless there formations have some awesome rules, I wouldn't be caught dead fielding that as my primary detachment.

The best thing to get out of it would probably a big mek sporting a Big Boss Pole and a 4++ KFF plus whatever gear you feel like, because you didn't have to trade anything for your KFF. Big Mek on a bike with KFF and SAG might just be the pinnacle of mek silliness.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Toburk wrote:
or GW did something terrible and nonsensical.

That simply never happens.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RedNoak wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Dont know why people are so bothered about Wazdakka being removed. Zhadsnark always seemed like the better bet anyway.

A power klaw that hits at I4 is fine by me.

is it?
the new faq says nothin about ini 4...
seems to me like a normal powerclaw

It's not Unwieldy, so it strikes at initiative.

It says unwieldy.

It's a powerclaw that gives you the option to trade all attacks for 1 that has I.D. Seems that's only useful for fighting MC's

He's talking about Zhadsnark's close combat weapon, not about the relic.

whoops

 lord_blackfang wrote:

It's not Unwieldy, so it strikes at initiative.

allright thanks


@new codex.

i dont know....

maybe it isnt so bad like we pretend.
basically we got nerfed but most stuff is cheaper and we got a bit faster.

but what really bothers me is, that there is no exciting "new thing"
the transition from 3rd edition codex to 4th was met with the same skepticism (loss of double ini, looted wagon etc) but at least we got some great new stuff like the nob-bikers, SAG's, burnaboyz and ramshakle...

going throught the new codex rumors however nothing feels like 'special' or really 'new'

the g/morkanaut are bit meh (and horifically overpriced - 80$?!) and all the other changes strike me more like a big update or faq to get orks ready for the 7th edition and this is kind of a disappointment -.-

RedNoak wrote:

going throught the new codex rumors however nothing strikes me as 'special' or really 'new'

Agreed, but it was to be expected.

None of the 6th edition codexes tried to really re-invent its faction, maybe with the exception of Daemons, which were pretty much a chapter-approved-style-get-you-by list up to that point. Apart from them, everything was just a copy/paste of the previous codex with the new plastic units added and some minor tweaks, but essentially the same army.

 prowla wrote:
So, basically, Codex: Orks is a bit meh.. and the Supplement is where all the good toys are?

No, the supplement is the terrible part.. that's what last page has been about

 Toburk wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
"The boss iz watchin'" is pretty neat for units with armor saves, since you can no longer fail against shooting and the additional hits can be caught by FNP/armor.

Bikes come to mind here.

If I remember the chart properly isn't it:

1: auto-fail, unless in combat, then auto-pass
2-3: if a character is in the mob take D6 hits and pass, or otherwise fail
4-6:if 10 or more models, take D6 hits and pass, or otherwise fail

With +2 to the chart and the hit change it becomes:
1:if a character is in the mob, take 3+D3 hits and pass, or otherwise fail
2-6: if 10 or more models, take 3+D3 hits and pass, or otherwise fail

So any unit with less than 10 models fails the mob rule table on a 2+ even if they have a character, and auto-fails if they don't, even if they are in close combat.

This seems like an enormous nerf for anything other than mobs of 30 boyz that don't have a character/bosspole. I either didn't read the fuzzy picture properly or GW did something terrible and nonsensical.

Yup. That rule is beyond terrible, and destroys small units. It removes the 1 result that didn't hurt you, and the ONLY result that had an impact on small characterless units.

Edit: And even in the supplement, they refuse to give us a frelling invulnerable save in combat.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

RedNoak wrote:

going throught the new codex rumors however nothing strikes me as 'special' or really 'new'

Agreed, but it was to be expected.

None of the 6th edition codexes tried to really re-invent its faction, maybe with the exception of Daemons, which were pretty much a chapter-approved-style-get-you-by list up to that point. Apart from them, everything was just a copy/paste of the previous codex with the new plastic units added and some minor tweaks, but essentially the same army.

I agree, I have been a little disappointed, would it really have been a stretch to chuck in grot battle tanks etc... there already a unit.... copy...paste.....ta-dah!
I have the feeling they may arise in a grot suppliment, but the time scale on when that will hit? months, if not years? suppliments haven't been that particularly fast to be dished out.

Not a massive fan of the ghaz suppliment either :S
As someone mentioned, 4 assault phases to get it to AP1 :/
Only thing I may enjoy is the big mek, boss pole 4++ KFF bike combo with a SAG.

Someone mentioned about using trukks to dump units into midfield in cover. This might actually be reasonably viable flash gitz and tankbustas come to mind. with a strong midfield force, as most missions now kinda wont let some tau force simply gun line it for the entire game.

4 assault phases = only 2 turns, right?

Solar Shock wrote:

Only thing I may enjoy is the big mek, boss pole 4++ KFF bike combo with a SAG.

As much as I love the concept of the Big Mek with KFF AND a SAG, is it 75points worth? Probably not.

And lol at the Killa Dakka. If the "Burny" option is Assault 1 (the number is cut off), I will die laughing at the 30 point heavy flamer.

No one said Ork tech was reliable streamdragon lol.

 streamdragon wrote:
And lol at the Killa Dakka. If the "Burny" option is Assault 1 (the number is cut off), I will die laughing at the 30 point heavy flamer.

Can't see a template weapon being anything other than Assault 1. Is there room in the missing space to write 'torrent'?

Really the Killdakka seems pretty rubbish. At best it gives you the firepower of a big gun Mek Gun, but with worse range and ballistic skill and no choice about what you get. For ten points it would have been fun, for thirty it's a joke.

I presume torrent would have gone under "Assault" like "Large Blast" is under the Bubbly entry.

Theoretically you could have the same BS as the Mek Gunz, if you got the Supa-Shootist warlord trait! Honestly, the Killdakka might be the only worthwhile choice for a Warboss if you do get that trait, given his other gun selections are barely worth shooting at all.

Guess if you're not running a warboss or have a Big Mek as your warboss that Trait might be better.

Dragonzord wrote:
4 assault phases = only 2 turns, right?

might need a clarfication, as it states gain +1 str -1AP at the end of the turn if you caused a casualty. however, T1 you probably wont get into combat, even if you do you then also have to go from one assault to the next, so not wipe them out your turn, wipe them their turn and then move assault another unit. do-able, but not guaranteed :/

yeh the BS trait is rather useless unless you happen to be badrukk? ahh nvm he cant roll on it! but yeh seems a little lackluster for a warlord trait. Does anyone know what the barebones warboss on bike would cost? considering MSU warbosses on bikes.

Getting one out of 6 weapons that cost 5-10 points each for 30 points will never be viable, no matter how high your BS is. Especially since there are quite a few blasts on the list.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

RedNoak wrote:

going throught the new codex rumors however nothing strikes me as 'special' or really 'new'

Agreed, but it was to be expected.

None of the 6th edition codexes tried to really re-invent its faction, maybe with the exception of Daemons, which were pretty much a chapter-approved-style-get-you-by list up to that point. Apart from them, everything was just a copy/paste of the previous codex with the new plastic units added and some minor tweaks, but essentially the same army.

Here's my "inside information" from a few months and many, many pages ago:

Models
-Not every kit or model "needing" an update or new plastic kit will receive one.
-There will be about 4 new plastic kits.
-At least 2 of the new kits will be for brand new units, to appeal to both collectors and gamers.
-Also, at least 1 of the new kits will be a combo kit.
-Expect to see Finecast presence in the range greatly reduced.


Codex
-The codex will be 104 pages, and more of a refinement more than a complete overhaul.
-A few mechanics will get overhauled, but many will stay the same and the rest will only be tweaked to be more in line with 6th edition.
-Ork psychic powers will definitely be brought more in line with 6th edition.
-Points changes will figure heavily -- certain heavily-used and popular units will get increases, while less popular units will get cuts.
-Expect to see about two new units.
-Playstyles will change somewhat, and a couple new "star" units will emerge.
-There won't be clan rules in the codex, but they may be included in future dataslates and supplements.

I didn't get everything right, but it was awfully easy to be in the ballpark. I can only assume that people don't pay close attention to codex releases other than those of their fave armies.

 gorgon wrote:
I didn't get everything right, but it was awfully easy to be in the ballpark. I can only assume that people don't pay close attention to codex releases other than those of their fave armies.

Some people here just can't see patterns, or they delude themselves into thinking things will change overnight. Before the Tau release I spent way too much time unsuccessfully arguing with people who were convinced GW would make a Crisis upgrade sprue with extra weapons.

Lol Orks get a relic that's a Gorgon Chain minus the 3++ for the same price.

Hi guys.

I'm sorry, I've got the codex (french version), and warbikers get +1 to turboboost save, not for jink. Anyone with english version can confirm ?

I believe that is what is what was confirmed earlier as well

Lord Erebus wrote:
I'll just leave these here...

As uinspired as our psychic rules are now I think I'll just leave this here too and not ever bother with a wasted leader slot.

 Orock wrote:

Lord Erebus wrote:
I'll just leave these here...

As uinspired as our psychic rules are now I think I'll just leave this here too and not ever bother with a wasted leader slot.

Not too bad as an HQ to open another CAD. However, to pick him over a painboy is questionable.

NamelessBard wrote:

 Orock wrote:

Lord Erebus wrote:
I'll just leave these here...

As uinspired as our psychic rules are now I think I'll just leave this here too and not ever bother with a wasted leader slot.

Not too bad as an HQ to open another CAD. However, to pick him over a painboy is questionable.

Points spent on a Weirdboy are points not spent on a Painboy or Big Mek.

A helpful individual on /tg/ wrote out the rules for the Lucky Stixx:

'All models in the bearer's unit add +1 to the WS characteristic on their profile. In addition, the bearer can choose to re-roll any failed to hit or to wound rolls or saving throws that they make. However, should three or more of these rerolls generate failed results in the same turn, the model is immediately removed as a casualty with no saving throws of any kind allowed.'

Now I could be wrong on this (since I haven't closely read the 7th ed rules yet) but as far as I can remember, the rule is if it's not specified, 'turn' will refer to -player- turn.

So the 'failed re-roll' counter resets during our opponent's turn, apparently. Pretty nice for 25pts.

It's a sad truth that Painboyz are pretty much an auto-take over Warbosses.

Does anybody know if Painboyz can take relics, like the relic bike?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
A helpful individual on /tg/ wrote out the rules for the Lucky Stixx:

'All models in the bearer's unit add +1 to the WS characteristic on their profile. In addition, the bearer can choose to re-roll any failed to hit or to wound rolls or saving throws that they make. However, should three or more of these rerolls generate failed results in the same turn, the model is immediately removed as a casualty with no saving throws of any kind allowed.'

Now I could be wrong on this (since I haven't closely read the 7th ed rules yet) but as far as I can remember, the rule is if it's not specified, 'turn' will refer to -player- turn.

So the 'failed re-roll' counter resets during our opponent's turn, apparently. Pretty nice for 25pts.

That seems like a very good relic that will unfortunately have too many people (the same ones running unkillable chapter masters) screaming BROKEN when a 2+ save warboss is invincible to bolters.

I can't imagine ever taking a Warboss without them, the re-rolls are nice no matter what (though obviously the most beneficial to a mega-armoured boss), but the +1 to WS adds a lot of options. A 30-strong mob of 'Ard Boyz with WS 5 being led by a mega-armoured warboss...

I have no idea how to get that unit up the field, but it's Goff as hell.

Jidmah wrote:The best thing to get out of it would probably a big mek sporting a Big Boss Pole and a 4++ KFF plus whatever gear you feel like, because you didn't have to trade anything for your KFF. Big Mek on a bike with KFF and SAG might just be the pinnacle of mek silliness.

Amazing! That's why we need the new plastic SAG to convert this model much more easily.

All that's missing is a mega armour relic to fit in there too. Actually....it won't stack with the KFF, but can a character take the relic bike and mega armour?

Dr. Delorean wrote:'All models in the bearer's unit add +1 to the WS characteristic on their profile. In addition, the bearer can choose to re-roll any failed to hit or to wound rolls or saving throws that they make. However, should three or more of these rerolls generate failed results in the same turn, the model is immediately removed as a casualty with no saving throws of any kind allowed.

That's awesome and ridiculously cheap. I didn't realize it came with a waaagh banner effect from the previous leaks.

 streamdragon wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:

 Orock wrote:

Lord Erebus wrote:
I'll just leave these here...

As uinspired as our psychic rules are now I think I'll just leave this here too and not ever bother with a wasted leader slot.

Not too bad as an HQ to open another CAD. However, to pick him over a painboy is questionable.

Points spent on a Weirdboy are points not spent on a Painboy or Big Mek.

Sadly, I only have 2 painboys (plus grozzy), so I'll be pulling the weirdboyz out in larger games. Like my first one next weekend.

Has anyone seen what the new Formations in the Ghaz supplement are?

I was able to download the perordered codex from Black Library this moment.

 Jidmah wrote:
I was able to download the perordered codex from Black Library this moment.

Nice! I can't wait to get a copy.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 Charles Rampant wrote:
I'm still a little boggled that they didn't improve the dive-bombers at all. I've never even seen a Blitza-Bomba model. What does it look like? Is it nice?

I thought they improved it massively? Large blast instead of small, AP 2 instead of 4, less chance to go wrong.

i agree it can punch tanks and bigger blast

I got my codex today so if there are still any questions I might be able to answer them.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Some people here just can't see patterns, or they delude themselves into thinking things will change overnight.

i would hardly call SEVEN YEARS a 'overnight-change'

Any information on Ghazkull supplement formations would be greatly appreciated.

 greggles wrote:
Any information on Ghazkull supplement formations would be greatly appreciated.

It's been asked at least a handful of times in the last couple pages. People will post it when they get it.

Was just responding to MadCow's statement on having the codex and asking if we wanted any info from it!

 greggles wrote:
Was just responding to MadCow's statement on having the codex and asking if we wanted any info from it!

He got the codex, not the supplement though.

I literally cut open the plastic when I wrote my message so have no idea if there is any info on the supplement in the codex.

Supplement is included if you got the limited edition book, not with the normal codex.

Interesting the Deff Kopta picture in the codex is of the old metal model, not the Assault on Black Reach ones. Probably because they don't sell those kits anymore.

that would confirm all of what mel said as he confirmed that pic as well

As expected the dreads lost the dreadnought close combat weapon (as GW are phasing those out).

Killa Kans now have Kan Klaw +2S AP2
Deff Dread now has 2 Power Klaws x2S Ap2, unwieldy, specialist weapon.

A Killsaw is same thing as Power Klaw but also has armourbane.

but you can still buy more ccw for dread

 herpguy wrote:
Lol Orks get a relic that's a Gorgon Chain minus the 3++ for the same price.

Gorgon's Chain ups the invulnerable save from the 4++ of an Iron Halo to 3++ and ups FNP from 6++ to 5++, and also gets weaker as you take more wounds (losing you Eternal Warrior if you've lost 2 wounds). Supa-Cybork grants you a 5++ FNP where you had none before, grants Relentless (which is rather meh, seeing as you're likely either on a bike or in Mega Armour) and Eternal Warrior.

So yeah, it's the same except for all the differences.

Hmm, seems we have the same problem as I remember from another codex.

Deff Rolla:
A vehicle with a deff rolla treats its front armour as two higher than normal when Ramming. In addition, if an enemy unit makes a Death or Glory attack on the vehicle with a deff rolla and fails to stop it, then the unit suffers D3 S10 Ap4 hits in addition to the damage they would normally suffer for the failed attack.
Furthermore, a vehicle with a deff rolla can re-roll failed Dangerous Terrain tests.

What this means is that the Deff Rolla is basically dead, you only do D3 hits and only if the enemy tries a Death or Glory. Most of the time they will probably just jump out of the way and then nothing happens.
Ramming could work I guess on a battle wagon as they'd count as being front armour 16.

Here's the problem:
Deff Rolla is not listed under vehicle options on page 53, under Ork Vehicle Equipment. So vehicles who can only take options from the Ork Vehicle Equipment table can't take a Deff Rolla.

It's listed in the back of the book under Ork Vehicle Equipment page 99 where all the special rules for equipment is listed.

I remember another codex having this exact same problem.

I've heard a few podcasts mention that Trukks will now be awesome with Deff Rolla, problem is Trukks can't take them and Deff Rollas seem pretty meh with these new rules.

The only vehicle in the codex that can take a Deff Rolla is the Battlewagon.

 MadCowCrazy wrote:
Hmm, seems we have the same problem as I remember from another codex.

Deff Rolla:
A vehicle with a deff rolla treats its front armour as two higher than normal when Ramming. In addition, if an enemy unit makes a Death or Glory attack on the vehicle with a deff rolla and fails to stop it, then the unit suffers D3 S10 Ap4 hits in addition to the damage they would normally suffer for the failed attack.
Furthermore, a vehicle with a deff rolla can re-roll failed Dangerous Terrain tests.

What this means is that the Deff Rolla is basically dead, you only do D3 hits and only if the enemy tries a Death or Glory. Most of the time they will probably just jump out of the way and then nothing happens.
Ramming could work I guess on a battle wagon as they'd count as being front armour 16.

Here's the problem:
Deff Rolla is not listed under vehicle options on page 53, under Ork Vehicle Equipment. So vehicles who can only take options from the Ork Vehicle Equipment table can't take a Deff Rolla.

It's listed in the back of the book under Ork Vehicle Equipment page 99 where all the special rules for equipment is listed.

I remember another codex having this exact same problem.

I've heard a few podcasts mention that Trukks will now be awesome with Deff Rolla, problem is Trukks can't take them and Deff Rollas seem pretty meh with these new rules.

The only vehicle in the codex that can take a Deff Rolla is the Battlewagon.

Are you kidding me? ONLY when they death or glory? That's a HUMONGOUS nerf.

Crud. I'm pretty glad I didn't glue them in at least. Used to be an auto-include, now I can't see anyone taking one, even if the cost went down.

Shokk Attack Gun result of 12 is Vortex, the we already know but an interesting point is that the rule for Vortex isn't in the codex as far as I can tell.
I haven't been able to find it, if someone else with the codex has found it please let me know.

I know the rule is in the main rulebook but aren't all rules normally in the codex as well?

Not always. A great many codexes 'refer to rulebook' for special rules and weapons.

Killa Kans don't even have a proper DCCW now? Just S 7, AP 2?

...and the Deffrolla was nerfed even harder than we thought?

I take back everything I said about good internal balance.

One thing I've heard podcasters complain about is that Boy have to pay 1 pt to get shootas.

4E Codex: The entire mob may replace their sluggas and choppas with shootas.... free

7E Codex: The entire mob may replace their sluggas with shootas.... 1pt per model.

Does this mean they retain their 3 attacks base? The Shoota is an assault 2 weapon S4 Ap6,
Does it have to have the pistol rule to count as a CCW?

I know boys are A2, but they have 3 attacks due to 2CCW.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Killa Kans don't even have a proper DCCW now? Just S 7, AP 2?

WOOT?!

seriously? strenght 7??? and then a 20% point increase? why? what? i dont get it...

RedNoak wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Killa Kans don't even have a proper DCCW now? Just S 7, AP 2?

WOOT?!

seriously? strenght 7??? and then a 20% point increase? why? what? i dont get it...

To go with their new "morale" rules, making them the only non-fearless vehicle in 40k.

I guess they thought killa kans were already way overpriced and too powerful?

RedNoak wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Killa Kans don't even have a proper DCCW now? Just S 7, AP 2?

WOOT?!

seriously? strenght 7??? and then a 20% point increase? why? what? i dont get it...

Don't forget they're the only walker in the game that has a morale test of a sort.... They are a steal now

The codex also refers to the main rulebook for assault grenades, meltas bombs, a variety of vehicle upgrades etc. It isnt just the vortex rule.

Everything is awesome. Orks and nid players will have a lot of fun playing each other. These new books make even CSM look like a power dex.

I know a lot of kanz that are going to be turned into self propelled big gunz

 Jidmah wrote:
Since I was able to download the codex just now, a couple of speculations/unclarities to clear up:
- HQ mek is 15 points, his killsaw 30.
- Loota/Burna mek is 16 points, his killsaw 20!
- Big Mek in MA comes with KMB instead of TL-Shoota
- Big Mek in MA trades the KMB for a killsaw, not the PK
- Big Mek in MA does not need to trade away anything for the KFF (without MA trades slugga)
- Painboy can take bike and BP, no Waaagh! banner or relics
- Nob upgrade is same points as before
- Units of more than 12 orks can still buy a trukk
- All Manz can take boss poles, cannot take Waaagh! Banner
- Snikrot's has fear, can still arrive from any board edge, his shroud replaces stealth
- Snikrot's shroud also works when deploying him turn 1.
- Trukk is 30 points
- Blitza and Burna bommer have BS3 for their shootas
- Blitza Bommer hits rear armor with shootas when rolling 10-12 for bomb drop
- Lootaz can have trukks
- Kustom Mega Slugga is S8 AP2 pistol, Get's hot!
- SAG kills ONLY the mek, not half your army
- SAG is S10 vortex
- None of the mek gunz state that the whole unit has to roll once for strength/ap - all other models with similar rules do!
- Tellporta-Blasta is 12", so it might potentially scatter back on the mek itself, instantly killing him.
- Failed repairs no longer shake the vehicle
- A vehicle with a deff rolla treats its front armour as two higher than normal when Ramming. In addition, if an enemy unit makes a Death or Glory attack on a vehicle with a deff rolla and fails to stop it, then the unit suffers D3 Strength 10 AP4 hits in addition to the damage they normally suffer for the failed attack. Furthermore, a vehicle with a deff rolla can re-roll failed Dangerous Terrain tests. Bye-bye good old friend
-Exact wording Lukky Stikk:
All models in the bearer’s unit add +1 to the Weapon Skill characteristic on their profile (this is not cumulative with the bonus from a Waaagh! banner). In addition, the bearer can choose to re-roll any failed To Hit or To Wound rolls or saving throws that they make. However, should three or more of the re-rolls generate failed results in the same turn, the model is immediately removed as a casualty with no saving throws of any kind allowed.
- Da Dead Shiney Shoota is twin-linked and only 5 points. Only hits friendly models within 6", can hit own unit. Awesome upgrade for KFF meks?
- Da Krunch hits again when your roll 11 or 12. You roll again for that hit, and keep getting hits until you don't roll 11 or 12. Fluff-wise this is a giant green fist comming out of the sky and punching the target unit.
- The Ork Warband formation (infinite Waaagh!s) also gets the Hammer of Wrath rule.

Will update first post after Germany has beaten the US soccer team

RedNoak wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Killa Kans don't even have a proper DCCW now? Just S 7, AP 2?

WOOT?!

seriously? strenght 7??? and then a 20% point increase? why? what? i dont get it...

I actually did some testing with a guy at the club last week. He states that walkers are now OP vs MC. In 5 and 6 MC made walkers pointless but not in 7E.


To try out his theory we started out light, 3 Killa Kans vs a Hive Tyrant. The Killa Kans completely crushed the Hive Tyrant in assault. We tried it a few times, it didn't matter if he used the single Smash or if he used regular attacks, the still got completely owned.

Perhaps a Hive Tyrant isn't the correct opponent but it was a short test. I guess a Carnifex would kill 1 or perhaps 2 Killa Kans before it got killed.

Ive never used supplements can someone explain to me how i could take a big mekk with a 4++Kff from the new supplement?

You need to take a second detachment from the supplement, buy the big mek and two units of troops.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

...and the Deffrolla was nerfed even harder than we thought?

Isn't this what the old FAQ clarified... if you death or glory to take an additional set of hits... so is it possible the new rules mean you do 2xD3 S10 hits if someone death or glories?

Are kanz base str 7 now ? So the hammer of wrath hit are at 7 ? Or do they gave their own special cc weapon that says they are str 7 ap2 ?

Melcavuk, can you clarify for us if Killa Kans Close Combat Weapons are DCCW or have S7 AP2?

And also, can you specify if DeffRolla hits only work in DoG attacks?

Well for people that play with single CAD the ork supplement seems huge isnt it? We get another hq and hs option.

BooBoo wrote:
Melcavuk, can you clarify for us if Killa Kans Close Combat Weapons are DCCW or have S7 AP2?

And also, can you specify if DeffRolla hits only work in DoG attacks?

DCCWs don't exist anymore.

BooBoo wrote:
Melcavuk, can you clarify for us if Killa Kans Close Combat Weapons are DCCW or have S7 AP2?

And also, can you specify if DeffRolla hits only work in DoG attacks?

Kans are Packing Kan Klaw and Big Shoota in their 50 point base. +2 STR AP2 klaw, big shoota being big shoota. (Str 7 Total)
Death Rolla is "A vehicle with a deff rolla treats its front armour as two higher than normal when Ramming. In addition, if an enemy unit makes a Death or Glory attack on a vehicle with a deff rolla and fails to stop it, then the unit suffers D3 Strength 10 AP4 hits in addition to the damage they normally suffer for the failed attack. Furthermore, a vehicle with a deff rolla can re-roll failed Dangerous Terrain test"

 Jidmah wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Since I was able to download the codex just now, a couple of speculations/unclarities to clear up:
- HQ mek is 15 points, his killsaw 30.
- Loota/Burna mek is 16 points, his killsaw 20!
- Big Mek in MA comes with KMB instead of TL-Shoota
- Big Mek in MA trades the KMB for a killsaw, not the PK
- Big Mek in MA does not need to trade away anything for the KFF (without MA trades slugga)
- Painboy can take bike and BP, no Waaagh! banner or relics
- Nob upgrade is same points as before
- Units of more than 12 orks can still buy a trukk
- All Manz can take boss poles, cannot take Waaagh! Banner
- Snikrot's has fear, can still arrive from any board edge, his shroud replaces stealth
- Snikrot's shroud also works when deploying him turn 1.
- Trukk is 30 points
- Blitza and Burna bommer have BS3 for their shootas
- Blitza Bommer hits rear armor with shootas when rolling 10-12 for bomb drop
- Lootaz can have trukks
- Kustom Mega Slugga is S8 AP2 pistol, Get's hot!
- SAG kills ONLY the mek, not half your army
- SAG is S10 vortex
- None of the mek gunz state that the whole unit has to roll once for strength/ap - all other models with similar rules do!
- Tellporta-Blasta is 12", so it might potentially scatter back on the mek itself, instantly killing him.
- Failed repairs no longer shake the vehicle
- A vehicle with a deff rolla treats its front armour as two higher than normal when Ramming. In addition, if an enemy unit makes a Death or Glory attack on a vehicle with a deff rolla and fails to stop it, then the unit suffers D3 Strength 10 AP4 hits in addition to the damage they normally suffer for the failed attack. Furthermore, a vehicle with a deff rolla can re-roll failed Dangerous Terrain tests. Bye-bye good old friend
-Exact wording Lukky Stikk:
All models in the bearer’s unit add +1 to the Weapon Skill characteristic on their profile (this is not cumulative with the bonus from a Waaagh! banner). In addition, the bearer can choose to re-roll any failed To Hit or To Wound rolls or saving throws that they make. However, should three or more of the re-rolls generate failed results in the same turn, the model is immediately removed as a casualty with no saving throws of any kind allowed.
- Da Dead Shiney Shoota is twin-linked and only 5 points. Only hits friendly models within 6", can hit own unit. Awesome upgrade for KFF meks?
- Da Krunch hits again when your roll 11 or 12. You roll again for that hit, and keep getting hits until you don't roll 11 or 12. Fluff-wise this is a giant green fist comming out of the sky and punching the target unit.
- The Ork Warband formation (infinite Waaagh!s) also gets the Hammer of Wrath rule.

Will update first post after Germany has beaten the US soccer team

Thanks for this. Go Germany!

BooBoo wrote:
Melcavuk, can you clarify for us if Killa Kans Close Combat Weapons are DCCW or have S7 AP2?

And also, can you specify if DeffRolla hits only work in DoG attacks?

This is the exact deff rolla rules entry:

Deff Rolla:
A vehicle with a deff rolla treats its front armour as two higher than normal when Ramming. In addition, if an enemy unit makes a Death or Glory attack on the vehicle with a deff rolla and fails to stop it, then the unit suffers D3 Strength 10 Ap4 hits in addition to the damage they would normally suffer for the failed attack.
Furthermore, a vehicle with a deff rolla can re-roll failed Dangerous Terrain tests.

 Watching Paint Dry wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:

...and the Deffrolla was nerfed even harder than we thought?

Isn't this what the old FAQ clarified... if you death or glory to take an additional set of hits... so is it possible the new rules mean you do 2xD3 S10 hits if someone death or glories?

No that's not how deffrollas worked at all.. faq clarified that they worked with ramming so people would buy the new deffrolla upgrade sprue. They're basically useless now compared to old rules.

To try out his theory we started out light, 3 Killa Kans vs a Hive Tyrant. The Killa Kans completely crushed the Hive Tyrant in assault. We tried it a few times, it didn't matter if he used the single Smash or if he used regular attacks, the still got completely owned.

Okay but nids are pretty terrible ..that's not surprising that a 4w mc died to s7 ap2..it also dies to plasma guns which are the same stats

 MadCowCrazy wrote:

BooBoo wrote:
Melcavuk, can you clarify for us if Killa Kans Close Combat Weapons are DCCW or have S7 AP2?

And also, can you specify if DeffRolla hits only work in DoG attacks?

This is the exact deff rolla rules entry:

Deff Rolla:
A vehicle with a deff rolla treats its front armour as two higher than normal when Ramming. In addition, if an enemy unit makes a Death or Glory attack on the vehicle with a deff rolla and fails to stop it, then the unit suffers D3 Strength 10 Ap4 hits in addition to the damage they would normally suffer for the failed attack.
Furthermore, a vehicle with a deff rolla can re-roll failed Dangerous Terrain tests.

So there is basically no point in taking the Deff rolla over a Ram anymore then, is it..?

now we know why the deffrolla costs 10 points

its basically an overprized ram...

Anyone know why you can now dl the preordered codex today? cause I was able to download it just now.

To be fair, I don't think any one piece of equipment in the army annoyed my opponents more than the deffrolla. On several occasions, a battlewagon that made it up the field was able to do more damage than the nobs or boys it was carrying

Good thing they nerfed battlewagons, nobs and boys then!

 Jambles wrote:
To be fair, I don't think any one piece of equipment in the army annoyed my opponents more than the deffrolla. On several occasions, a battlewagon that made it up the field was able to do more damage than the nobs or boys it was carrying

Does that merit nerfing it to such an extent though?
It was after all best at cracking armor, which is what I repeatedly see a lot of Ork players seem to have trouble with.
That, and it was fluffy as hell. "why yes, my army is so hell bent on krumping you in hand to hand even my vehicles are equipped to do so!"

 streamdragon wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

I had just ordered a bunch of "sand buggies" from CNC to turn into Ork buggies,

Just curious, who is CNC ?

Fellow Dakkanauts!

I ordered these badboys. (They're basically the vehicles from Borderlands / Borderlands 2! )

Edit: I plan on ordering their take on Mek Gunz also!

Sweet find!


I'm thinking of getting some Mek Gunz!

 Kirasu wrote:
Good thing they nerfed battlewagons, nobs and boys then!

Yeah no kidding. Welcome to the new deal.

Somebody at GW really must hate Killa Kans though, seriously.

Oh, I just realized that Zzap guns got worse

It has Get's hot all the time, and you get additional Get's Hot wounds when you roll above 10

 Livingcover wrote:

 Jambles wrote:
To be fair, I don't think any one piece of equipment in the army annoyed my opponents more than the deffrolla. On several occasions, a battlewagon that made it up the field was able to do more damage than the nobs or boys it was carrying

Does that merit nerfing it to such an extent though?
It was after all best at cracking armor, which is what I repeatedly see a lot of Ork players seem to have trouble with.
That, and it was fluffy as hell. "why yes, my army is so hell bent on krumping you in hand to hand even my vehicles are equipped to do so!"

I definitely don't think so. All I meant was it certainly was effective, and cheap too for what it did. I was fine with it going down to d3 hits... but I don't think it's much of an option anymore.

Seems the codex is available to download again!

 Jambles wrote:


I definitely don't think so. All I meant was it certainly was effective, and cheap too for what it did. I was fine with it going down to d3 hits... but I don't think it's much of an option anymore.

pretty much my thoughts... auto d3 hits would be fine... but no hits at all?!

 Jidmah wrote:
Oh, I just realized that Zzap guns got worse

It has Get's hot all the time, and you get additional Get's Hot wounds when you roll above 10

jezus... wtf is happening??? didnt realize orks needed the nerfbat THAT MUCH. its just getting worse and worse... its like cold ice running down my spine each i hit the reload-page button :(

Our codex has secretly been replaced by one written by angry tyranid players.

With the lucky sticks, would you re-roll one at a time?

Or say you failed four hits, would you have to declare you were re-rolling four of them, and then take your licks if you failed?

 MagicMan wrote:
With the lucky sticks, would you re-roll one at a time?

Or say you failed four hits, would you have to declare you were re-rolling four of them, and then take your licks if you failed?

That's the way I read it. To avoid instant-death just limit yourself to two re-rolls per turn, unless your character will be dead anyways if he fails the save, in which case go ahead and roll the third.

Well, 2 at a time.

Reroll 2 hits, pass them both so you know your safe
So reroll 2 failed to wounds, pass atleast 1 so you know you're safe
So reroll 1 armour save, no risk of death

Not sure if anyone has asked yet;

Who actually wrote this codex?

Right, so two per phase unless your Warboss is dead anyway, or you're feeling jammy.

 Livingcover wrote:
Not sure if anyone has asked yet;

Who actually wrote this codex?

everyone and no one.................Probably Kelly

 Livingcover wrote:
Not sure if anyone has asked yet;

Who actually wrote this codex?

Codex says: Produced by the Games Worshop designstudio

Going to bed, c ya all tomorrow.

I'll pick up the codex tomorrow, and then sell my kans

In the meantime, i've built a SAG mek and a Headwoppa Warboss

 steve1 wrote:


everyone and no one.................Probably Kelly

 MadCowCrazy wrote:

Codex says: Produced by the Games Worshop designstudio

Going to bed, c ya all tomorrow.

Hm. I guess no one individual wants to "take the blame" anymore if we don't like it then

 Livingcover wrote:

 steve1 wrote:


everyone and no one.................Probably Kelly

 MadCowCrazy wrote:

Codex says: Produced by the Games Worshop designstudio

Going to bed, c ya all tomorrow.

Hm. I guess no one individual wants to "take the blame" anymore if we don't like it then

Written by committee. Always a good sign.

I hold to my belief that GW wrote buffs and nerfs for each rule and unit and rolled dice to see which ones to take.

 Vankraken wrote:
I hold to my belief that GW wrote buffs and nerfs for each rule and unit and rolled dice to see which ones to take.

Dat Narrative.

Pages of this drek with the occasional actual good bit. :(

 Vankraken wrote:
I hold to my belief that GW wrote buffs and nerfs for each rule and unit and rolled dice to see which ones to take.

Considering that I have no freakin' idea what's going on with each design decisions they make... that can be the only explanations to anything coming out of the GW design team department since Codex Space Marines...

 pretre wrote:
Pages of this drek with the occasional actual good bit. :(

I heard it was written by Mat Ward, and it says that all Orks secretly wish they could be Goffs, and that one time Orks and Tyranids decided to team up and had lots of hugs.

That's what I heard.

Trukks gak
Wazdakka gone, douchebag TOs "herp derp forgeworld can't use Zadsnark against my Taudar because I can have fun without forgeworld so obviously orks can too"
Trukks gak
Kans gak
Zero invulns for reasons
Dat gakky model photo codex

And I mean really, model photos for codex entries? feth you.

Actually, no, thank you GW. For once you've come through for me - I wanted either a stellar dex, or one so bad that I can legitimately drop my beloved Orks. And I got one of those two outcomes.

Too bad about the kans getting dropped to S7, though it makes some sense and doesn't really change how they are used much. A unit will still mug most vehicles and almost any MC. Any unit they kill with S10 they kill with S7.

Now why they had no point reduction considering everything else we know of, that is the real confusing point.

 Dakkamite wrote:

And I mean really, model photos for codex entries? feth you.

Actually, no, thank you GW. For once you've come through for me - I wanted either a stellar dex, or one so bad that I can legitimately drop my beloved Orks. And I got one of those two outcomes.

Been thru the 'nid codex and survived. Laughed at the pitiful illustrations - harpie with photoshopped barbed stranglers to match the new model. but at least it had illustrations!

 MagicMan wrote:
With the lucky sticks, would you re-roll one at a time?

Or say you failed four hits, would you have to declare you were re-rolling four of them, and then take your licks if you failed?

Unless there's more written into the rule than people are saying, you'd be 100% able to take it one at a time.

Technically speaking, all to hit, wound, and armor save rolls are "supposed" to be done one at a time. Rolling multiple dice, I.E. speed rolling, is entirely optional on your part.

Is the Ork codex even worth buying? The more I keep hearing about it, The less "good" I keep hearing about it. It sounds like to me that despite price drops. Everything in the codex received a nerf and we picked up a couple troops and foc we didn't have before with some new gear.

That is what It feels like to me after reading a lot of this.

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:

And I mean really, model photos for codex entries? feth you.

Actually, no, thank you GW. For once you've come through for me - I wanted either a stellar dex, or one so bad that I can legitimately drop my beloved Orks. And I got one of those two outcomes.

Been thru the 'nid codex and survived. Laughed at the pitiful illustrations - harpie with photoshopped barbed stranglers to match the new model. but at least it had illustrations!

Honestly, they could have written this with simple courier new black fonts on white pages with no illustration, if the content was good, I would be far happier that I am now. The internal balance and external balance in the overall WH40k eco system is a priority to me (as a paying customer) and they do not deliver what I was expecting. So, too bad, I will vote with my wallet (never thought I would end up being the one saying this one day)....

Now I will simply put my ork models in a few shoe boxes and let them macerate while I wait for the next codex. Who knows , when I open the box in 4 or 5 years, I might have baby gretchins and few orkish monstrous creatures.

Back to my Marines and Eldars in the meantime.

 Vasarto wrote:
Is the Ork codex even worth buying? The more I keep hearing about it, The less "good" I keep hearing about it. It sounds like to me that despite price drops. Everything in the codex received a nerf and we picked up a couple troops and foc we didn't have before with some new gear.

That is what It feels like to me after reading a lot of this.

Here is a more or less complete, unbiased list of changes: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/601805.page
Decide for yourself.

 Vapordrago88 wrote:
I'll pick up the codex tomorrow, and then sell my kans

In the meantime, i've built a SAG mek and a Headwoppa Warboss

Spoiler:

Nice work, Vapor!

 PhillyT wrote:
Too bad about the kans getting dropped to S7, though it makes some sense and doesn't really change how they are used much. A unit will still mug most vehicles and almost any MC. Any unit they kill with S10 they kill with S7.

Now why they had no point reduction considering everything else we know of, that is the real confusing point.

Quite a bit worse against other dreads (mostly AV12-13) isn't it?

Hmm... WS2 with 2 attacks at s7 ap2... Killa Kans are a unit of conscript sergeants with powerfists.

You see, these changes to kans make the deff dred look better by comparison. And being as the deff dred remains utterly useless ... go us?

although again points tended to not be the problem. It was slot restrictions. I wonder how a 18 kan, 15 buggy list would function (single force org). Its fragile as hell hell, but its an awful lot of semi accurate rokkits

I'm really interested in seeing what formations are available from the supplement to support various different playstyles - could make kans + dreads quite a bit better.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Vasarto wrote:
Is the Ork codex even worth buying? The more I keep hearing about it, The less "good" I keep hearing about it. It sounds like to me that despite price drops. Everything in the codex received a nerf and we picked up a couple troops and foc we didn't have before with some new gear.

That is what It feels like to me after reading a lot of this.

Here is a more or less complete, unbiased list of changes: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/601805.page
Decide for yourself.

I am done with Orks until the next codex comes out.

This codex is BS.

I never thought GW would have the potential to make a codex worst then the Dark Angels or the Tyranid codex.

I was wrong.

They literally took everything I loved about orks and using with my orks and Shat on every single thing.
They basically took everything unique about them and made them into a vanilla rulebook army with nothing fun,unique,inspired or random.

I am just gonna keep using my current rulebook if you all don't mind.

feth THIS NEW CODEX.

 Vasarto wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Vasarto wrote:
Is the Ork codex even worth buying? The more I keep hearing about it, The less "good" I keep hearing about it. It sounds like to me that despite price drops. Everything in the codex received a nerf and we picked up a couple troops and foc we didn't have before with some new gear.

That is what It feels like to me after reading a lot of this.

Here is a more or less complete, unbiased list of changes: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/601805.page
Decide for yourself.

I am done with Orks until the next codex comes out.

This codex is BS.

I never thought GW would have the potential to make a codex worst then the Dark Angels or the Tyranid codex.

I was wrong.

They literally took everything I loved about orks and using with my orks and Shat on every single thing.
They basically took everything unique about them and made them into a vanilla rulebook army with nothing fun,unique,inspired or random.

I am just gonna keep using my current rulebook if you all don't mind.

feth THIS NEW CODEX.

Take the good from the new, the good from the old, and make a better codex to play with. That's what I'm doing!

Noone has addressed this yet, so I will ask. Have there been changes to the dedicated transport Battlewagon?

What I am wondering is if you can now take a Battlewagon as a dedicate transport with a kill kannon, or if it still has to be naked.

- Thanks

 Vasarto wrote:

I am done with Orks until the next codex comes out.

So I guess we'll see you in 2020 then? It's all gonna turn around for us in 10th edition!

How bizarre an army list were you playing if everything you used got worse?

decker_cky wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
Too bad about the kans getting dropped to S7, though it makes some sense and doesn't really change how they are used much. A unit will still mug most vehicles and almost any MC. Any unit they kill with S10 they kill with S7.

Now why they had no point reduction considering everything else we know of, that is the real confusing point.

Quite a bit worse against other dreads (mostly AV12-13) isn't it?

Yeah, and also any vehicle with greater than AV10 on the rear.

But how often did you you see opposing dreads and walkers? Hardly any competitive army will field walkers, even with the new rules improving them versus MC. A nerd for sure, particularly given the lack of a point drop.

Is there any restrictions with putting a mega armoured hq on the relic bike? Or is it actually possible

 steve1 wrote:
Seems the codex is available to download again!

Why do people keep posting this? It's not true.

 Multimoog wrote:

 steve1 wrote:
Seems the codex is available to download again!

Why do people keep posting this? It's not true.

It was true man I downloaded it today just went to my orders and dled!

deffrekka wrote:Is there any restrictions with putting a mega armoured hq on the relic bike? Or is it actually possible

No mega armour with bike or relic bike sorry

grobbicull wrote:Noone has addressed this yet, so I will ask. Have there been changes to the dedicated transport Battlewagon?

What I am wondering is if you can now take a Battlewagon as a dedicate transport with a kill kannon, or if it still has to be naked.

- Thanks

Addressed it last week. You can have killkannon on a dedi transport wagon now

So there are no FOC shifts in the codex or the supplement, correct? Ghazghkull's Waaagh! giving his unit of meganobz run is pretty nice, although it'd be nicer if it gave it to all mega-armored units in 12". Oh well, my dream of running killsaw meganobz somehow seems all the better with ol' Ghaz!

I would be sad about the killa kan nerf but I never used kanz and most people I know simply fielded them for shooting. It would've been a lot nicer if they also would've gotten powerklawz, but it is what it is.

I still haven't figured out what kind of an army I want to do with the codex. I'll probably end up making a bound ork warband formation from the codex and maybe an unbound meganobz and battlewagonz list with Ghaz for the supplement.

After all the reading I'll be fine with this new dex. I played almost exclusively Lootas, Shootas, NobBikerz, and Stompas.

I'll replace the NobBikerz with regular Bikes, May or may not use Grotsnik with a mob of 30 Boyz, add a BikerBoss, PainBoy, and KFF Mek to the Bikers and call it an Army. Also grots obviously.

New models I have to purchase: possibly some arms and heads for Mek on Bike and PainBoy on Bike.

Did GW expect me to buy anything else with this codex?

Awwww :(

I mostly shoot with mine too, and the S7 AP2 attacks are still good enough to threaten most things in the game. But the fact that with the changes they saw fit to increase their point costs begs the question that is often asked in such situations: What is GW seeing that we are not?

They are forging a narrative. They dont play with thier own expensive time invested armies so dont care about how changes affect things. Like they just care that morale checks on kanz is fluffy and funny. They dont care it makes the unit substantially less useful.

Kanz just don5 have enough dakka per points to be useful. Like it'll take on average 12 kanz with rokkits to kill a single broadside

I've finally gotten a chance to read though the whole codex. After a week solid of reading the leaks, and reading the codex today, my personal opinion is that, overall, this codex is worse than the 2008 codex.

Yes, some things got better, some things got worse. Playing Orks in 7th is going to look a lot different than the previous codex, and there will still be a few builds that are semi-competitive.

However, the overall feel of the codex has really degraded from the previous one, and honestly, it doesn't look as fun, diverse, nor as interesting as the 2008 codex.

My gaming group is allowing me to stick with the old codex, and I really appreciate it because the new one, and most of the new models have personally, really let me down.

i still dont get why anybody would take zakstruk... its ONE s8 ap2 HoW attack

his statline is that of a boss and even his gear has nothin special about it... HE DOESNT EVEN HAVE A GODDAMN POWERKLAW...

...who fields a nob without a powerclaw anyway?

RedNoak wrote:
i still dont get why anybody would take zakstruk... its ONE s8 ap2 HoW attack

his statline is that of a boss and even his gear has nothin special about it... HE DOESNT EVEN HAVE A GODDAMN POWERKLAW...

...who fields a nob without a powerclaw anyway?

It is my first step into 7th now... Please excuse me if I sound uneducated.

Is there any gain in giving Zagstruk Headwompa's Choppa?

Can I do it?

he's a special character, so you cant give him any gear.

 PhillyT wrote:
I mostly shoot with mine too, and the S7 AP2 attacks are still good enough to threaten most things in the game. But the fact that with the changes they saw fit to increase their point costs begs the question that is often asked in such situations: What is GW seeing that we are not?

The idea with the new book is diversifying army builds - rather than having one or two types of viable armies (for example Wagon Rush or Green Tide), you min/max within units. Improvements to charging/Waaagh-ing means you should be using Boyz to get into CC rather than Nobz, and preferable Slugga boyz (with a shoota mob or two to cover their advance and overwatch). Those units are supported on the backfield with a much wider array of inexpensive shootiness - Big/Mek Gun artillery batteries, Lootas and Flash Gitz for mid- and backfield objective protection.

Granted, that's in an all-comers, Battle Forged type of list. You can still field Wagon Rushes and things like that for fun, but it seems like what GW wanted to do was promote a wider array of viable builds. It's been proven that while new Mob Rule is a slight nerf - and shut the frig up, crybabies, it really is only a slight nerf - armywide Fearless in 7th is actually pretty overpowered. 5++ and FNP to boy mobs help out a lot, because I've already run 5++ and FNP as experiments before even 7th hit and can speak from experience that it makes boy mobz a LOT tougher than just 5+ KFFs. I've also run a game using the new 6" KFF bubble in a few games, and while you might not be able to just take one KFF to protect your whole army, chaining them side by side or with a Morkanaut will give you several feet of table space to deploy Boyz in. I was able to fit 120 boyz at their max coherency in the bubble provided by 3 Big Meks. I've done really well with the 5++/FNP combo, it works.

However, the overall feel of the codex has really degraded from the previous one, and honestly, it doesn't look as fun, diverse, nor as interesting as the 2008 codex.

This sums it up. I mean the fething deffrolla is a reinforced ram now against vehicles. Jesus christ.

 Vasarto wrote:

I am done with Orks until the next codex comes out.

[...]

feth THIS NEW CODEX.

Dis sounds like somefink a grot would say. A real Ork would be strait up done w/ dem GW gits, not hidin iz boyz away until anuvva codexy arrives.

Gonna get my Ork fix through DoW and such myself. The tabletop doesn't reflect the fluff, and this book does not reflect Orks one bit.

RedNoak wrote:
i still dont get why anybody would take zakstruk... its ONE s8 ap2 HoW attack

Not that i don't agree that he's pretty lack-luster, but its one s8 ap2 HoW, hit. Isn't it? HoW auto-hits, so he can insta-kill any T4 or below model without a decent ++ save.

RedNoak wrote:
i still dont get why anybody would take zakstruk... its ONE s8 ap2 HoW attack

his statline is that of a boss and even his gear has nothin special about it... HE DOESNT EVEN HAVE A GODDAMN POWERKLAW...

...who fields a nob without a powerclaw anyway?

I thought Zagstrukk had those special bionic clawed feet?

Also- to those of you complaining about the new codex, why don't you just try using the new rules before condemning them. Seems incredibly silly to get upset about it without having a go first?

Goresaw wrote:
They are forging a narrative. They dont play with thier own expensive time invested armies so dont care about how changes affect things. Like they just care that morale checks on kanz is fluffy and funny. They dont care it makes the unit substantially less useful.

Kanz just don5 have enough dakka per points to be useful. Like it'll take on average 12 kanz with rokkits to kill a single broadside

Lets back up a little bit though. It takes a pretty decent amount of shooting to bring down cans, even at 165 points per set of three. Run 6 and it takes a huge commitment. They can still put out a fairly good shooting phase using grotzooka and rokkits while still offering 18 S7 AP2 attacks on the charge.

Nothing wrong with kana, they just aren't really what they were in 4th and 5th (6th granting them only 2HP was a big downgrade to the kan mob armies).

Multimoog: Good post!

Deff Rollas: So the deff roll no longer puts S10 hits on vehicles that it rams? Even the d3?

 Vapordrago88 wrote:
I'll pick up the codex tomorrow, and then sell my kans

In the meantime, i've built a SAG mek and a Headwoppa Warboss

Spoiler:

How many Kanz you got? :p

 Jambles wrote:

 Vasarto wrote:

I am done with Orks until the next codex comes out.

So I guess we'll see you in 2020 then? It's all gonna turn around for us in 10th edition!

Maybe I will do what the guy below me said and just take whats good from both codexes. ...I know...I am gonna write my own ork Codex and share it with you all lol..

Without ard boys the game is pretty much just for fun anyway and I don't do tournys so maybe I can get away with it.

Its just that...sigh. OK I know I will just be repeating everyone else what was said before but.

My final rant on what is bad..Then I will start mentioning what I like about the codex.

1. We cannot make anything a troop choice which is BS. No Mega nob troops? Why is it fair that Marines can do it with terminators? Nobs as elites only is same problem. This was 90% of my Lists. Big mek not making dreads a troop was a meh idea. too.

2. Nerf Killa Kans? ARE YOU SERIOUS? Kans and Dreads need a BOOST! They are the most pathetic Mechs in the entire GAME!!!! Why the Feth would you ( and yes I wrote Feth and not the other word on purpose.) Nerf them? Not to mention them being Elites which is a much needed experience for them was all a lie from the guide that was linked for me. How in ZODS EAVY ARMPIT WATER Are they even remotely considered a HEAVY?!?! WHY A MORAL TEST?! IT DOESN"T MAKE SENSE!!!!

3. Deff Rollas and Battle Wagons DID NOT NEED NERFING. Battlewagons were expensive enough as it was and in no way superior in obvious ways to a land raider. So that makes me angry.

4. Shoots costing points pisses me right the hell off

5. NO CYBORK ON NOBS? WHAT THE HELL?! Nobs = useless now. Just an upgraded Boy squad that will be obliterated before getting to combat by the weakest shooting options of all other armies.

6. Old Zogwarts gone and that makes me unhappy. I got over it, Its not a Huge deal, but its still a deal. What could be so hard to just make a model for it. Flash gits did not have a model and they kept them and made models of Gits. So why not Zogs?

7. They Nerfed Ghazzy. Our only choice on the entire codex that we knew would be safe no matter where he was. He was our security blanket and now that is gone. Leaving us cold, lonely and scared of everything on the field.

8. Mob rule Nerfed into oblivion.

9. They Nerfed Zagstrukk. being able to assault after deepstriking was his THING maaaaan.. Like it was, far out man. It was what made him Unique and a MASTER OF THE DEEPSTRIKE!!!!
I have the model for him, but never got around to using him.

10. Nobs cannot take painboy.

11. Boom Gun removed from Looted Wagon.

My orks and how I loved to play them has always consisted of.

Nobs, Painboys and throw them into trucks.
Run Mobs of Sluggas and Choppas.
Run Mega Nob troops with Ghazzy up the center of the map to munch of faces and just sit back and hope for double 6's on my Shock attack gun and Boom gun stuff to pieces.

So I cannot use Looted Wagons, Nobs or Meganobs and trukks are pretty much out and that leaves me with just some lootas and a big mek.



Also, why a Stompa? Has the game become so powerful that godly powerful mechs like that are allowed in regular games now?

I know riptide is stupidly powerful, but why a stompa?

 Jambles wrote:

 Vasarto wrote:

I am done with Orks until the next codex comes out.

So I guess we'll see you in 2020 then? It's all gonna turn around for us in 10th edition!

10th edition? Bit optimistic there

 angelofvengeance wrote:

RedNoak wrote:
i still dont get why anybody would take zakstruk... its ONE s8 ap2 HoW attack

his statline is that of a boss and even his gear has nothin special about it... HE DOESNT EVEN HAVE A GODDAMN POWERKLAW...

...who fields a nob without a powerclaw anyway?

I thought Zagstrukk had those special bionic clawed feet?

Yeah. They give a single S8 AP2 HoW, if he doesn't use the jetpack to move and uses it to charge.

For only 65 points, thats a total bargain.

 Dakkamite wrote:
I can legitimately drop my beloved Orks.

Dibs!

I think it's about time for folks to remember to take a breath and wait a month before throwing away their armies. Or just send them to me. I'll pay shipping.

"The idea with the new book is diversifying army builds - rather than having one or two types of viable armies (for example Wagon Rush or Green Tide), you min/max within units. Improvements to charging/Waaagh-ing means you should be using Boyz to get into CC rather than Nobz, and preferable Slugga boyz (with a shoota mob or two to cover their advance and overwatch). Those units are supported on the backfield with a much wider array of inexpensive shootiness - Big/Mek Gun artillery batteries, Lootas and Flash Gitz for mid- and backfield objective protection."

hmm, seems like that is what I have been doing still I started playing orks. Yet this codex stills feels VERY underwhelming.
and seriously WTF!!! no illustrations in the unit entries. I rather enjoyed looking at those illustrations, what the hell is the point of the model gallery pages then.

Everyone not giving up on orks is a true ork. And I mean that in the most backhanded way. Unendingly enthusiastic but ultimately incredibly stupid.

I run a basic tau army and can see now way for this book to beat it. The only thing that would give me slight pause is the now awful battlewagon spam. And that I give you till turn two when my broadsides will get side armor.

Big gunz are nice... till you take some casualties and run off the board. T7 != Invincible.

The orknaughts are tough but not fast enough to threaten.

light vehicle spam is cute but doesnt bring any firepower.

 pretre wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
I can legitimately drop my beloved Orks.

Dibs!

I think it's about time for folks to remember to take a breath and wait a month before throwing away their armies. Or just send them to me. I'll pay shipping.

The thing is, theres a time to hold and a time to ditch. This game has gone down over the last six months, you'd have to be blind to not acknowledge that.

You may disagree that now is the time to bail, but don't disrepect the opinions of others that disagree.

As for my Orks, this gak is worth money. When somebody quits the game, there seems no end to the cheapskates who think that they're going to be giving the models away for free =/ Thats the whole point of quitting now instead of later when the models are worth nothing.

I'm getting out now, while I still have people like you to sell to.

 Vasarto wrote:

 Jambles wrote:

 Vasarto wrote:

I am done with Orks until the next codex comes out.

So I guess we'll see you in 2020 then? It's all gonna turn around for us in 10th edition!

Maybe I will do what the guy below me said and just take whats good from both codexes. ...I know...I am gonna write my own ork Codex and share it with you all lol..

Without ard boys the game is pretty much just for fun anyway and I don't do tournys so maybe I can get away with it.

Its just that...sigh. OK I know I will just be repeating everyone else what was said before but.

My final rant on what is bad..Then I will start mentioning what I like about the codex.

1. We cannot make anything a troop choice which is BS. No Mega nob troops? Why is it fair that Marines can do it with terminators? Nobs as elites only is same problem. This was 90% of my Lists. Big mek not making dreads a troop was a meh idea. too.

Everything scores and you have unbound if you NEED to use alternative lists. Also, Forgeworld characters and army lists open things up as well.

2. Nerf Killa Kans? ARE YOU SERIOUS? Kans and Dreads need a BOOST! They are the most pathetic Mechs in the entire GAME!!!! Why the Feth would you ( and yes I wrote Feth and not the other word on purpose.) Nerf them? Not to mention them being Elites which is a much needed experience for them was all a lie from the guide that was linked for me. How in ZODS EAVY ARMPIT WATER Are they even remotely considered a HEAVY?!?! WHY A MORAL TEST?! IT DOESN"T MAKE SENSE!!!!

Kans did get a nerd. Dredds are actually quite good this edition (and cans are too, but not quite enough to offset the losses). The improvement in vehicle durability combined with the loss of CC effectiveness versus vehicles for MC helped a lot.

3. Deff Rollas and Battle Wagons DID NOT NEED NERFING. Battlewagons were expensive enough as it was and in no way superior in obvious ways to a land raider. So that makes me angry.

AV14 4HP transports for 120 (with minimal weapon choices) isn't good enough? I'll take my land trains thank you! piles of boyz waaghing their way out to here we go into the enemy on turn two is a perfectly viable tactic in my meta. Should be in most. Deff rolls did take a beating though. But really, I bought them all the time and pretty much used them three times in 6 years…

4. Shoots costing points pisses me right the hell off

Chill son. It is annoying, but what does it amount to in a typical army, 50 points total?

5. NO CYBORK ON NOBS? WHAT THE HELL?! Nobs = useless now. Just an upgraded Boy squad that will be obliterated before getting to combat by the weakest shooting options of all other armies.

LOL No. This statement has no real basis in reality so it is tough to really say much else. But I will try.

Nobz are still more than capable of getting into combat and wrecking things. With a pain boy and their own point drop plus heavy armor (now obligatory and making them only two points more than their old cost) they are about a tough as they used to be in most cases. They do risk a good popping from power fist heavy armies and lists, so watch that. But they can level mounds of S7 - 9 attacks on enemy units. Must come with in a wagon though.

6. Old Zogwarts gone and that makes me unhappy. I got over it, Its not a Huge deal, but its still a deal. What could be so hard to just make a model for it. Flash gits did not have a model and they kept them and made models of Gits. So why not Zogs?

Yeah. Too bad really. I never used him but losing special characters is never fun.

7. They Nerfed Ghazzy. Our only choice on the entire codex that we knew would be safe no matter where he was. He was our security blanket and now that is gone. Leaving us cold, lonely and scared of everything on the field.

How was he nerved?

8. Mob rule Nerfed into oblivion.

No it wasn't.

9. They Nerfed Zagstrukk. being able to assault after deepstriking was his THING maaaaan.. Like it was, far out man. It was what made him Unique and a MASTER OF THE DEEPSTRIKE!!!!
I have the model for him, but never got around to using him.

Same here, but his real issue is he was an upgrade for a unit that doesn't really work in any army (jump pack troops).

10. Nobs cannot take painboy.

Yes they can. ANyone can have a pain boy join them. And the pain boy will actually be cheaper than the old edition! And can leave the unit when things get too hot!

11. Boom Gun removed from Looted Wagon.

Yeah, slight bummer. I never had room for looted wagons at heavy though.

Nobs, Painboys and throw them into trucks.
Run Mobs of Sluggas and Choppas.
Run Mega Nob troops with Ghazzy up the center of the map to munch of faces and just sit back and hope for double 6's on my Shock attack gun and Boom gun stuff to pieces.

Still a complete viable play style.

So I cannot use Looted Wagons, Nobs or Meganobs and trukks are pretty much out and that leaves me with just some lootas and a big mek.

Who says? Meganobz got much better now. Why are they not a good choice? Nobs still do what they do too.

Also, why a Stompa? Has the game become so powerful that godly powerful mechs like that are allowed in regular games now?

I know riptide is stupidly powerful, but why a stompa?

Where have you been for the last year and a half? Super heavies are old news and not a very significant change to the game. They rarely are worth their points (Knights being one of the few exceptions).

Stompas are freaking amazing to paint and love in the darkness of knight.

 PhillyT wrote:

Multimoog: Good post!

Thanks. I was really skeptical at first too, when the rumors started leaking, but thinking about how units work with HQ choices and talking about things with my game group, I came to realize a lot of the skepticism about the new book just came down to bellyaching and not being able to use the exact same lists that were in the old Codex. I've had to shave my Boyz count down from 120 shootas to a 110-count mix of shoota and slugga units, and the loss of all that dakka will probably make me have to play much more tactically.

Yes, tactics are going to be an important part of playing Orks, again. It's not going to be the "easy starter army" any more. You're going to have to be a clever git to win games, and it's probably going to come down to scoring secondary objectives and Maelstrom missions rather than fluffily tabling your opponent. Which, really, doesn't actually reflect the fluff at all. Ork fluff* has Orks dying constantly, either to themselves or their opponents; what makes them seem so tough is the fact that they can be stapled back together after the fight.

*The most well-known bit of text from the Ork codexes essentially says that Orks don't lose because they don't think they lose, even when they very obviously have lost. This actually made my local GW store adopt an "Orks Never Lose" victory point that gets awarded to Orks at the end of a tied game on account of being Orks and they'll come back anyway. If it's Ork vs Ork, well, it was obverisly a misundastandin', an' anyways we's gonna go orf fer a pint an' a larf cuz that was a bloody good fight, eh?

 Dakkamite wrote:
This game has gone down over the last six months, you'd have to be blind to not acknowledge that.

I'm having a lot more fun with the new edition (even though Tyranids are my largest army, I think...). I guess I'm blind.

I have a few minor squabbles with the codex, but nothing to the level that people are losing their mind over.

If your enjoying "d3 victory points" then thats great man. I'm referring to the game as a competitive experience. I can understand differences of opinion, but you'd be hard pressed to convince me that GW style random objectives is game balance.

The way GW acts is just sometimes dumbfounding from how they screw up things in codices, at this point they really are just rolling dice and seeing what results they get on a pre-made table for each unit. Oddly enough I'm more miffed at our unit artwork being taken away moreso than some of the nerfs we received, I mean I was looking forward to full-colour Ork Nobz and a new Ghazghkull pic in all their orky glory and they even copped out on that.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Jambles wrote:

 Vasarto wrote:

I am done with Orks until the next codex comes out.

So I guess we'll see you in 2020 then? It's all gonna turn around for us in 10th edition!

10th edition? Bit optimistic there

I don't think there will be a new Ork Codex until At least 2030.

Maybe I will switch back to Tau or just improve my Space Wolf Army until then?

 Dakkamite wrote:
If your enjoying "d3 victory points" then thats great man. I'm referring to the game as a competitive experience. I can understand differences of opinion, but you'd be hard pressed to convince me that GW style random objectives is game balance.

So don't use them. One of my favorite game types is "Emperor's Will + Relic", where I can concentrate on sending Boyz to secure and steal a midfield objective while parking my Lootas and big gunz on a Skyshield with their own objective (7th lets you do this, thankfully). Shoot a Trukk of Nobz across the table for Linebreaker (thus tying up my opponent's VP if he manages to get First Blood on the Trukk) and either going for Slay the Warlord or staying in cover for securing Linebreaker. Then again, single-point Maelstrom missions don't require you to hold an objective for the entire game, just capturing it by the end of your turn. Winning games via objectives is much easier for Orks in 7th what with points being earned throughout the game rather than being tallied up via end-game conditions.

The impression I get isn't that the Codex is SO BAD that people are losing their minds. It's that GW is so incredibly deaf to actual buyer/player concern that it doesn't make sense for them to continue to support the company.

Stormboys weren't particularly competitive, so we made them cheaper...and worse!

People love our Killa Kan models, but they aren't very good in game...so we made them worse! It doesn't matter that it is very true to the fluff for Killa Kans to stand around scared. It's also very true to the fluff that a rampaging mob of orks will often destroy an IG battle line, and that doesn't look likely to happen. You don't take a unit that is beloved for the model, but bemoaned for the rules, and then make the rules worse.

People loved the ramshackle rules for Trukks, but it's still hard to get orks into melee with them...so let's make them more likely to kill the passengers and change ramshackle!

People spammed the deathroller, because it was one of the few consistently dangerous things that orks could field...so let's make it worse! I myself HATED the fact that it was OBVIOUS that you should take a lot of Battlewagons, and every one of them should have a deathrolla. That's bad design and boring. It doesn't make it good design to just nerf the deathrolla and leave the weaknesses it addressed alone.

Let's make ork boys less able to get into combat (thanks to Mob Rule) and keep their points the same!

The codex isn't unplayable, but I forget who said it: Orks are NPCs now. They aren't there to win. They are there to die to the actual winners. I don't think the codex was written by people who hate orks, but I do think the rules were written by people who don't actually care if Orks can win a game, so long as they 'play orky' on the battlefield.

You can give them weird, haphazard behavior, but if you do that, you have to make them a real threat in some other way. This Codex just doesn't have the respect and attention that was obviously paid to the SM Codex, and it shows.

Da Butcha wrote:
I don't think the codex was written by people who hate orks, but I do think the rules were written by people who don't actually care if Orks can win a game, so long as they 'play orky' on the battlefield.

I think this about sums up this release. I thought the same thing about nids where I think the designers want players to use the army a certain way. That way has little chance of winning. Never ascribe to insidious what you can ascribe to stupid.

So looking at the leaked pictures, is there no artwork for the units anymore?

That's terrible if true.

Da Butcha wrote:
The impression I get isn't that the Codex is SO BAD that people are losing their minds. It's that GW is so incredibly deaf to actual buyer/player concern that it doesn't make sense for them to continue to support the company.

Stormboys weren't particularly competitive, so we made them cheaper...and worse!

People love our Killa Kan models, but they aren't very good in game...so we made them worse! It doesn't matter that it is very true to the fluff for Killa Kans to stand around scared. It's also very true to the fluff that a rampaging mob of orks will often destroy an IG battle line, and that doesn't look likely to happen. You don't take a unit that is beloved for the model, but bemoaned for the rules, and then make the rules worse.

People loved the ramshackle rules for Trukks, but it's still hard to get orks into melee with them...so let's make them more likely to kill the passengers and change ramshackle!

People spammed the deathroller, because it was one of the few consistently dangerous things that orks could field...so let's make it worse! I myself HATED the fact that it was OBVIOUS that you should take a lot of Battlewagons, and every one of them should have a deathrolla. That's bad design and boring. It doesn't make it good design to just nerf the deathrolla and leave the weaknesses it addressed alone.

Let's make ork boys less able to get into combat (thanks to Mob Rule) and keep their points the same!

The codex isn't unplayable, but I forget who said it: Orks are NPCs now. They aren't there to win. They are there to die to the actual winners. I don't think the codex was written by people who hate orks, but I do think the rules were written by people who don't actually care if Orks can win a game, so long as they 'play orky' on the battlefield.

You can give them weird, haphazard behavior, but if you do that, you have to make them a real threat in some other way. This Codex just doesn't have the respect and attention that was obviously paid to the SM Codex, and it shows.

Better said then what I did.

What gets me is that it is only the assault based armies that are getting this kind of attention. I am pretty sure that when it comes to the Space wolves turn ( presumably next or the month after from rumors) and the blood angels turn. Their armies will be horribly nerfed as well.

70% of my space wolf army is assault based. with wolf flaws, frost axes and not a whole lot else for my elite and HQ catagory.

My Blood Angel friends army is basically Orks Marines. His whole army is crippled because of the new rules already and when it comes time to do a new Blood Angel codex. I fear for his army getting even more Nerfs in favor of new "shooting" options and rules.

I think who ever is behind all of this does not hate the armies itself. But, someone in GW with enough power and greed has a deep hatred for Assaults and close combat and if you review over everything about this current game. It is very obvious that Instead of shooting and assaults being equals, like in good ol 5th edition was. Its now 90% shooting shooting shooting with the rest divided up between movement, psychic and assaulting feels like it takes the left over scraps.

I rarely see CC in games anymore. Instead of CC, I see someone with a troop 4 inches away shoot and sit there.

 Dakkamite wrote:
If your enjoying "d3 victory points" then thats great man. I'm referring to the game as a competitive experience. I can understand differences of opinion, but you'd be hard pressed to convince me that GW style random objectives is game balance.

I like two words that you said in your post. 'competitive' and 'balance'

40k in general (not just the ork codex) has neither of those things. People trying to play the game competitively and min/maxing are the only ones complaining about this codex, while those of us play the way the game was intended are happy with it.

The amount of crying in this thread makes it nigh on unreadable.

 dan2026 wrote:
So looking at the leaked pictures, is there no artwork for the units anymore?

That's terrible if true.

Seems like it, which is terrible since it was one of the few things that I liked about seeing in the new colour codices, giving me Orky inspiration to convert but I guess with GW's current mindset anything that inspires creativity must be removed.

 Multimoog wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
If your enjoying "d3 victory points" then thats great man. I'm referring to the game as a competitive experience. I can understand differences of opinion, but you'd be hard pressed to convince me that GW style random objectives is game balance.

So don't use them. One of my favorite game types is "Emperor's Will + Relic", where I can concentrate on sending Boyz to secure and steal a midfield objective while parking my Lootas and big gunz on a Skyshield with their own objective (7th lets you do this, thankfully). Shoot a Trukk of Nobz across the table for Linebreaker (thus tying up my opponent's VP if he manages to get First Blood on the Trukk) and either going for Slay the Warlord or staying in cover for securing Linebreaker. Then again, single-point Maelstrom missions don't require you to hold an objective for the entire game, just capturing it by the end of your turn. Winning games via objectives is much easier for Orks in 7th what with points being earned throughout the game rather than being tallied up via end-game conditions.

Oh definitely. I don't dislike maelstorm missions because of how they interact with Orks. If anything Orks will be very powerful for these types of missions, especially with objectives like "turbo 3 units"

40k in general (not just the ork codex) has neither of those things. People trying to play the game competitively and min/maxing are the only ones complaining about this codex, while those of us play the way the game was intended are happy with it.

I play the game in an almost exclusively "narrative" or casual style. Playing the game for fun, and a tight, competitive ruleset, are not mutually exclusive.

 Grimskul wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
So looking at the leaked pictures, is there no artwork for the units anymore?

That's terrible if true.

Seems like it, which is terrible since it was one of the few things that I liked about seeing in the new colour codices, giving me Orky inspiration to convert but I guess with GW's current mindset anything that inspires creativity must be removed.

Its goddamn lazy is what it is.

I'm pretty sure every other 6th edition book has unit art.

 Vasarto wrote:

I think who ever is behind all of this does not hate the armies itself. But, someone in GW with enough power and greed has a deep hatred for Assaults and close combat and if you review over everything about this current game.

I guess this is why Orks can move, run and assault, huh? Also with an added 2" from a boarding plank, and with HoW on BOY MOBZ available. Man, assault just got KILLED in this Codex, what with all those enhanced methods of getting into it. It sucks. Assault sucks!

 Dakkamite wrote:
If your enjoying "d3 victory points" then thats great man. I'm referring to the game as a competitive experience. I can understand differences of opinion, but you'd be hard pressed to convince me that GW style random objectives is game balance.

I play in a highly competitive environment. The number of times in prior editions that the game came down to a single roll of the dice was rather often - it's not different now. although, I've not had the game come down to someone winning yet as a result of a good (or bad) roll of those random victory points. Oh, but I guess because we use random rolls

I really like how the previous codex worked in 7th ed with large fearless boyz units on objectives. It'll take some doing with this new edition, but we still have some options with Grozzy and the Big Boss Pole.

I can see the issues with the codex, but I still like it. I played a lot during 5th edition and completely skipped 6th, so maybe that has something to do with it? I'm not that much of a competetive player either, which I'm sure changes the way I look at this codex and its supplement.

If you no longer enjoy 40K and this release greatly annoyed you it's probably best if you move on to something else. It's a shame the game isn't enjoyable to you and I'm not glad to see you go but it will be better if you don't spend money on an activity you no longer like. All of the ork players that are quitting now, you will be missed!

I'm going to give orks a chance, they were my army back in 5th edition so I'm just drawn to them. I have some idea of what I want to do and I think it'll work too. I hope I'll be able to make a few fun lists that actually have a chance at winning - I may not be competetive, but I don't want to be an NPC either.

 Multimoog wrote:

 Vasarto wrote:

I think who ever is behind all of this does not hate the armies itself. But, someone in GW with enough power and greed has a deep hatred for Assaults and close combat and if you review over everything about this current game.

I guess this is why Orks can move, run and assault, huh? Also with an added 2" from a boarding plank, and with HoW on BOY MOBZ available. Man, assault just got KILLED in this Codex, what with all those enhanced methods of getting into it. It sucks. Assault sucks!

i feel dirty. For once i am agreeing with you

Assault for orks got majorly buffed in this edition. And whoever said stormboyz got nerfed because they 'cost less but die easier'... you can take squads of 30 of the guys now, who cares how easy they die, they aint going to die anytime soon.

 Multimoog wrote:

 Vasarto wrote:

I think who ever is behind all of this does not hate the armies itself. But, someone in GW with enough power and greed has a deep hatred for Assaults and close combat and if you review over everything about this current game.

I guess this is why Orks can move, run and assault, huh? Also with an added 2" from a boarding plank, and with HoW on BOY MOBZ available. Man, assault just got KILLED in this Codex, what with all those enhanced methods of getting into it. It sucks. Assault sucks!

Although tongue in cheek, the point is valid. I think a lot of people can't understand how far orks can really assault from until they get it on the table.

You could easily build an army that could have the whole thing in assault on T2.

Dragonzord wrote:

 Multimoog wrote:

 Vasarto wrote:

I think who ever is behind all of this does not hate the armies itself. But, someone in GW with enough power and greed has a deep hatred for Assaults and close combat and if you review over everything about this current game.

I guess this is why Orks can move, run and assault, huh? Also with an added 2" from a boarding plank, and with HoW on BOY MOBZ available. Man, assault just got KILLED in this Codex, what with all those enhanced methods of getting into it. It sucks. Assault sucks!

i feel dirty. For once i am agreeing with you

Assault for orks got majorly buffed in this edition. And whoever said stormboyz got nerfed because they 'cost less but die easier'... you can take squads of 30 of the guys now, who cares how easy they die, they aint going to die anytime soon.

Except every time you use their jump packs to go fast (which you'll have to do to avoid getting obliterated by shooting) you'll lose around 1/6 of the unit. So your unit of 30 goes to 25 before the enemy has even begun shooting. Add on enemy shooting and even 30 Stormboys will be wiped very quickly.

Also, Boarding Planks are only useful for as long as the Trukk is alive. How long will that actually be?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:

 Multimoog wrote:

 Vasarto wrote:

I think who ever is behind all of this does not hate the armies itself. But, someone in GW with enough power and greed has a deep hatred for Assaults and close combat and if you review over everything about this current game.

I guess this is why Orks can move, run and assault, huh? Also with an added 2" from a boarding plank, and with HoW on BOY MOBZ available. Man, assault just got KILLED in this Codex, what with all those enhanced methods of getting into it. It sucks. Assault sucks!

i feel dirty. For once i am agreeing with you

Assault for orks got majorly buffed in this edition. And whoever said stormboyz got nerfed because they 'cost less but die easier'... you can take squads of 30 of the guys now, who cares how easy they die, they aint going to die anytime soon.

Except every time you use their jump packs to go fast (which you'll have to do to avoid getting obliterated by shooting) you'll lose around 1/6 of the unit. So your unit of 30 goes to 25 before the enemy has even begun shooting. Add on enemy shooting and even 30 Stormboys will be wiped very quickly.

Also, Boarding Planks are only useful for as long as the Trukk is alive. How long will that actually be?

Oh your trukk blew up? Well, better use the other 9 you have... surely, you're not running a single trukk.

Or a battlewagon?

NamelessBard wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:

 Multimoog wrote:

 Vasarto wrote:

I think who ever is behind all of this does not hate the armies itself. But, someone in GW with enough power and greed has a deep hatred for Assaults and close combat and if you review over everything about this current game.

I guess this is why Orks can move, run and assault, huh? Also with an added 2" from a boarding plank, and with HoW on BOY MOBZ available. Man, assault just got KILLED in this Codex, what with all those enhanced methods of getting into it. It sucks. Assault sucks!

i feel dirty. For once i am agreeing with you

Assault for orks got majorly buffed in this edition. And whoever said stormboyz got nerfed because they 'cost less but die easier'... you can take squads of 30 of the guys now, who cares how easy they die, they aint going to die anytime soon.

Except every time you use their jump packs to go fast (which you'll have to do to avoid getting obliterated by shooting) you'll lose around 1/6 of the unit. So your unit of 30 goes to 25 before the enemy has even begun shooting. Add on enemy shooting and even 30 Stormboys will be wiped very quickly.

Also, Boarding Planks are only useful for as long as the Trukk is alive. How long will that actually be?

Oh your trukk blew up? Well, better use the other 9 you have... surely, you're not running a single trukk.

Or a battlewagon?

Against the current amount of high volume and high strength shooting available to armies in the game (with Eldar and Tau being the biggest offenders), I don't think you can bring enough Trukks.

Luckily, they are only 30 points.


For someone with the codex, does anyone know if the rokkits on the orkanauts are TL as per WD description and model or just normal ones?

I have two trukks: one to get flash gits into ruins the first turn and one to get Nobs/Mans into CC or get Linebreaker. I only had one trukk for Nobs in the last edition and while it usually got blown up, that wasn't until the Nobs got where they needed to go. They can still take eavy armor which allows saves on exploding trukks, same as Cybork, and they can still take a Painboy. They also still have 2 wounds. Boy mobs might not be as viable for trukk mobs any more but Nobs and MANz still have fun with 'em.

And if we're being honest with each other here, trukk mobz for boyz haven't really been viable since 5th ed anyway.

 Multimoog wrote:

 Vasarto wrote:

I think who ever is behind all of this does not hate the armies itself. But, someone in GW with enough power and greed has a deep hatred for Assaults and close combat and if you review over everything about this current game.

I guess this is why Orks can move, run and assault, huh? Also with an added 2" from a boarding plank, and with HoW on BOY MOBZ available. Man, assault just got KILLED in this Codex, what with all those enhanced methods of getting into it. It sucks. Assault sucks!

OMG, why didn't I see this! Totally viable strategy. Just make sure to Waagh and roll a 10+ when you get all the boyz up close.

So much stuff got nerfed all to hell that i see the green tide as probably being the way to go, and just suck up the casulties and the whining of your opponent as you move 200+ models. I hate that so many things got taken out, or cost more, and have worse rules.

Had a long talk yesterday with some of the old time people GW forced out of the company a few years back. They had all fought with management until they were sick of it. They hated that GW's attitude was that the gaming community didn't matter, tournaments didn't matter, players didn't matter, rules didn't matter. People only buy the models to paint at home in their basement.

This codex really shows that attitude.

I'll still try to play with it. I have 10k+ of painted orks going back to rogue trader. Not giving up. But it's a joke game for me now. I expect to lose. I'll get some beer, and only play with friends. No pick up games, no tournaments. It's not an army to really try and win with.

Da Butcha wrote:
Orks are NPCs now. They aren't there to win. They are there to die to the actual winners..

I want to know why people are under the belief this is a new idea ?

Orks haven't been the equal to any of the armies of man since 2nd edition.

Play Orks cause they look cool, let you kustomize models, and enjoy the humor.

 dan2026 wrote:
So looking at the leaked pictures, is there no artwork for the units anymore?

That's terrible if true.

Nope. All pictures. No artwork. I'm keeping a copy of my old freebooters book handy to look at the old pictures, especially the Paul Bonner stuff. Helps swallow the new rules a bit easier.

NamelessBard wrote:
Luckily, they are only 30 points.


For someone with the codex, does anyone know if the rokkits on the orkanauts are TL as per WD description and model or just normal ones?

Two single rokkits.

 mikhaila wrote:

OMG, why didn't I see this! Totally viable strategy. Just make sure to Waagh

This here ^^ is a viable strategy, and is probably why most people are going to be taking Warbosses. New Waaagh is really frigging great and will probably make games a lot more decisive in turns 2-3 - if you're not spending as much time trudging up the table, you're losing a lot fewer models to gunfire.

Personally, in 6th ed, I stopped taking them as HQ choices at all unless I was running nobs on bikes. Big Meks with KFFs and SAGs won me more games than Warbosses did, since Warbosses were always getting challenged and killed. My current all-comers list has one barebones Warboss in it so I can Waaagh and stick a bosspole in a slugga mob. Everything else is Big Meks and Painboyz. Which, as I already detailed upthread, is a strategy that really works well. Once people start playing games with that combination it's going to be a standard list build.

Im pretty excited to be able to take warbosses again. I also only took Big Meks with KFFs because they were so so good and almost required. I only took warbosses on bikes with nobs.

Now with KFF getting a nerf in range and warbosses getting some new utility, I can wait to snip snip some things

I understand the kanz getting a little nerf and a points increase, we can have 18 now. Being able to spam armor 11 walkers with a S10 power fist might be a bit much.

I still will use kanz, in fact my army only got better. I never ran a warboss or nobz of any type always 2 big meks. And they got better.

My shoota boyz are about even since the rokkit point drop and I never ran power fists in shoota sqauds. Now I can go to ground with a 5+ fnp. =)

And now I have the Morkanaught to go with my dredd and 6 kanz for my 3 heavy choices surrounded by shoota boys. Not to mention my burnas now get a ride.

Like its been said the true orky players are not bothered or complaining. I like it all so far.

Well except lootas, I hate Deff Skullz, they steal all the loot. So i refuse to use those pesky gitz.

I think a lot of people complaints (and some of mine included) is that some of the big nerfs were not really needed or overdone. The two biggest overdone nerfs were mob rule and the deff rolla. Maybe they needed a tone down but now theyre nerfed a little too far in my opinion. I think this codex has redone how we are supposed to play. 6 years into the old one and most of use are really attached to those old playstyles. We will have to find some ways to rework it all.

I love loota, dey work real 'ard at da end of the battle to collect all the loot.
Dey pick da best bits, and when dey come back to camp you just hit dem on da head with da choppa and collect.

 Greyhound wrote:
I love loota, dey work real 'ard at da end of the battle to collect all the loot.
Dey pick da best bits, and when dey come back to camp you just hit dem on da head with da choppa and collect.

If they haven't knicked that and your underwear.

The less fearless in the game the better imo.

Dragonzord wrote:
The less fearless in the game the better imo.

Admittedly a lot of (maybe too many) armies are immune to the effects of morale however Orks were one of the actual fluffy cases of fearless. When there's enough Orks charging forwards, they don't care that they're getting blown away left right and centre.

I think it would have been better just going back to the old "check size" rules from 3rd. Roll 2D6, if there's more or equal Orks in the unit than the result then they don't care and keep on going.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:
The less fearless in the game the better imo.

Admittedly a lot of (maybe too many) armies are immune to the effects of morale however Orks were one of the actual fluffy cases of fearless.

NO no and no. Orks were never fearless in the fluff.

It's just an Andy chambers failure that was written into the ruleset

 Multimoog wrote:
And if we're being honest with each other here, trukk mobz for boyz haven't really been viable since 5th ed anyway.

not really... you turbo'ed a couple of trukks in front of the enemy and waited for the thing to ramshackle... boyz inside didnt mind that much since you only got wounds on a 5+ and then only 2/3 of the time. oh and you had a nice wreck/crater to hide behind... just dont expect the trukk to survive and you would have been fine.

 adamsouza wrote:

...
Play Orks cause they look cool, let you kustomize models, and enjoy the humor.

That's my real problem right there. If there's one thing orks should never be it's boring as *bleep*. Seems like this codex is only going to reward spam lists worse than the last.

RedNoak wrote:

 Multimoog wrote:
And if we're being honest with each other here, trukk mobz for boyz haven't really been viable since 5th ed anyway.

not really... you turbo'ed a couple of trukks in front of the enemy and waited for the thing to ramshackle... boyz inside didnt mind that much since you only got wounds on a 5+ and then only 2/3 of the time. oh and you had a nice wreck/crater to hide behind... just dont expect the trukk to survive and you would have been fine.

Sounds downright stupid.

Would rather shield them with buggywalls

I do not know if this had already been covered but can someone please answer the following (Melcavuk and those with the Codex):

Can HQ Meks and Mek Boy Upgrades from mobs like Burna Boys or Lootas purchase Bosspoles?

Question: 'Eavy Armor. Does it double the cost of a Sluggaboy or is it less than that? Because if less, it's a heck of a deal.

A ton of gloom and doom. Codex isn't even out.

Wakshaani wrote:
Question: 'Eavy Armor. Does it double the cost of a Sluggaboy or is it less than that? Because if less, it's a heck of a deal.

4pts, can be taken more then just 1 mob.

 Byte wrote:
A ton of gloom and doom. Codex isn't even out.

Melcavuk's had a copy of the codex for a week.

Rubs wrote:

Wakshaani wrote:
Question: 'Eavy Armor. Does it double the cost of a Sluggaboy or is it less than that? Because if less, it's a heck of a deal.

4pts, can be taken more then just 1 mob.

Hrm. This is both good and bad. You can bring a *ton* of 'Eavy Boyz out, but that's more than I would have expected them to cost. (By 2, when I'd pegged a basic Slugga boy at 5 pts i my head.)

Hrm.

 TedNugent wrote:

 Byte wrote:
A ton of gloom and doom. Codex isn't even out.

Melcavuk's had a copy of the codex for a week.

a better question is how many games have been played with the new rules?

So far all the complaints are based on theory and math hammer. People need to wait and play.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:

 Byte wrote:
A ton of gloom and doom. Codex isn't even out.

Melcavuk's had a copy of the codex for a week.

a better question is how many games have been played with the new rules?

So far all the complaints are based on theory and math hammer. People need to wait and play.

Exactly. Lots of things got nerfed, but there is also a lot of cool things added that we need to mess with. Plus whatever the supplement might bring.

Not saying this will happen very often but look at the possibility.

Turn 1 you go first. Deploy trukks/BWs with planks on the line. Move forewards 6in, disembark 6in (you are now midfield) Warboss calls turn 1 waaagh! (which is allowed as long as you do not use waaagh every turn formation) Run D6 (any roll of 3-4 is mitigated by 2in extra charge range from boarding plank) You are 6-7in away from their deployment zone so if they have any units within 6-7in of their line, declare a charge rerolling the lesser die.

Yay for turn 1 CC with 12-20 boyz plus nob with klaw(in case you charged a vehicle)

NOW WARBOSS BLITZBONK SEZ LESS FIGHTING OURSELVES AND MORE TURN 1 KRUMPIN UMIES AND GITS

 Billagio wrote:


Plus whatever the supplement might bring.

 adamsouza wrote:

Da Butcha wrote:
Orks are NPCs now. They aren't there to win. They are there to die to the actual winners..

I want to know why people are under the belief this is a new idea ?

Orks haven't been the equal to any of the armies of man since 2nd edition.

Play Orks cause they look cool, let you kustomize models, and enjoy the humor.

Orks were better than the IG and Space Marines books of the time when their 4th edition book came out. They were still better than the Space Marine book that followed right up until this most recent one.

IG has traditionally been one of the top three books since 2008, so really, almost everyone is below that human faction.

ANyone so doom and gloom as to want to ditch their army, feel free to post to Bartertown and I will help you out.

 TedNugent wrote:

 Billagio wrote:


Plus whatever the supplement might bring.

Arnt there some formations as well that we havnt seen yet?

*waits for the inevitable rant about getting a supplement... and it not being main-lined into the main codex*

I see Rage as a warlord trait... I called that one! although I assumed for the Main codex!

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
*waits for the inevitable rant about getting a supplement... and it not being main-lined into the main codex*

I see Rage as a warlord trait... I called that one! although I assumed for the Main codex!

I'm OK with a supplement. I'm actually excited for it! I just didn't go Warboss order due to the ridiculous price tag, so I'll buy it for a normal price later. My only gripe will be if we can't mix and match from the supplement and the normal book. I've heard a few times already you can only use stuff in the supplement in their own unique formations.

 pretre wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
I can legitimately drop my beloved Orks.

Dibs!

I think it's about time for folks to remember to take a breath and wait a month before throwing away their armies. Or just send them to me. I'll pay shipping.

I started playing in 4th edition with Orks and always got my butt handed to me. After a particularly brutal match, I talked about Orks and the game in general and what I like the best about the game (which happened to be close combat) and what I didn't like (Ork's bad armor save). At that time the guy who was my opponent suggested trying out Chaos because they were as good as orks in CC and had way better armor, so I did. I put the orks away for a bit. (until Armageddon source book came out)

4th edition- I would consider the Golden age for Chaos. They were so powerful! You would have to have read the codex to truly appreciate the power. The codex was so thin, but so jam packed with stuff/lore. They had demon's deep striking, custom made HQs, it was really a great time to play the army. I played Worldeaters and thoroughly enjoyed the game. Since that Codex (the one with the berzerker's face on cover), that faction has gotten weaker and weaker. I haven't played Berzerkers in 3 editions now.

I guess what Im getting to is, the games isn't constant. Its ever evolving. So, to be happy playing, you want to think about what you like most and least then either figure a way to play your faction and enjoy it, or find a different one that operates the way you enjoy playing.

 Billagio wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:

 Byte wrote:
A ton of gloom and doom. Codex isn't even out.

Melcavuk's had a copy of the codex for a week.

a better question is how many games have been played with the new rules?

So far all the complaints are based on theory and math hammer. People need to wait and play.

Exactly. Lots of things got nerfed, but there is also a lot of cool things added that we need to mess with. Plus whateuver the supplement might bring.

Im sure it will be fine. Its the same thing every codex. Chicken little syndrome.

Looking over it all, the one thing I don't understand is why there is no Ork equivalent to drop pods.

I kind of understood it when they didn't make models, or have any armies with them, but since space marines have rules and models for them, I thought for sure they would have crept into the newest incarnation of the Ork codex.

 Phydox wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
I can legitimately drop my beloved Orks.

Dibs!

I think it's about time for folks to remember to take a breath and wait a month before throwing away their armies. Or just send them to me. I'll pay shipping.

I started playing in 4th edition with Orks and always got my butt handed to me. After a particularly brutal match, I talked about Orks and the game in general and what I like the best about the game (which happened to be close combat) and what I didn't like (Ork's bad armor save). At that time the guy who was my opponent suggested trying out Chaos because they were as good as orks in CC and had way better armor, so I did. I put the orks away for a bit. (until Armageddon source book came out)

4th edition- I would consider the Golden age for Chaos. They were so powerful! You would have to have read the codex to truly appreciate the power. The codex was so thin, but so jam packed with stuff/lore. They had demon's deep striking, custom made HQs, it was really a great time to play the army. I played Worldeaters and thoroughly enjoyed the game. Since that Codex (the one with the berzerker's face on cover), that faction has gotten weaker and weaker. I haven't played Berzerkers in 3 editions now.

I guess what Im getting to is, the games isn't constant. Its ever evolving. So, to be happy playing, you want to think about what you like most and least then either figure a way to play your faction and enjoy it, or find a different one that operates the way you enjoy playing.

I know that whenever my Orks hit the table, I'm just gunna pick them back up before too long. But it doesn't keep me down. I love it! I know a few players give me a dirty look when they see me setting up so many models, but what did they expect when they accepted my offer to play a game (usually a week in advance no less)?. To keep the game fun, despite often losing, I give myself goals every time. How many dudes can I kill? How many assaults can I get off this game? How long can I keep my Trukks alive!? All these little mini games for myself is what keeps me comming back.

To be honest, as the dust settles, I'm overall kind of happy with this new book. Not like "OMG HOLY gak YESSSS!", but definatly enjoying the new toys we are getting, as well as some new tactica. I'm rooting hard for Morkanaughts, I plan to buy two and be a bit cheesy with their large invul bubble, along with Kans, despite their price increase, and play lots of Boyz as per usual. I have a feeling the Nauts won't be as easy to deal with as many people initially thought. 13 armor is pretty damn good, 5 hull points, IWND with the riggers, 5+ Invuln on top of all that, and Meks you can load its guts with to repair it every turn, with Kanz rushing up to assist in keeping fire off the Nauts while they unload lasers and rokkits into your opponent.

With the new rules if i have 3 BWs next to each other and a kff in the middle one will it cover all 3? Do the vehicles have to be completely inside six inches if the middle one?
If it does cover all three, why are people not excited about getting a 4 up cover save on their BWs again? Put a manz unit in the middle with a PB and big mekk, then boys on the outside 2 with or withoht eavy armor and with warbosses in there or cheap warbosses on bikes behind the bws. Seems lik a pretty good core.

TableTopJosh wrote:
With the new rules if i have 3 BWs next to each other and a kff in the middle one will it cover all 3? Do the vehicles have to be completely inside six inches if the middle one?
If it does cover it, why are people not excited about getting a 4 up cover save on their BWs again? Put a manz unit in the middle with a PB and big mekk, then boys on the outside 2 with or withoht eavy armor and with warbosses in their or cheap warbosses on bikes behind. Seems lik a pretty good core.

I'm fairly certain it was mentioned if you embark a KFF it only affects the vehicle it is in.

I like it, good internal balance more important than cheesy ass combos for competitive WAAC gamers fixtated and foaming at the mouth with commonly used buzzwords

Well feth that..... so stupid

TableTopJosh wrote:
With the new rules if i have 3 BWs next to each other and a kff in the middle one will it cover all 3? Do the vehicles have to be completely inside six inches if the middle one?
If it does cover all three, why are people not excited about getting a 4 up cover save on their BWs again? Put a manz unit in the middle with a PB and big mekk, then boys on the outside 2 with or withoht eavy armor and with warbosses in there or cheap warbosses on bikes behind the bws. Seems lik a pretty good core.

If you put the Big Mek in a battlewagon, then no.

If you put the Big Mek with the KFF on a bike in the middle of 2 battlewagons within 6 inches of the Big Mek, then both Battlewagons can benefit from the KFF save.

TableTopJosh wrote:
With the new rules if i have 3 BWs next to each other and a kff in the middle one will it cover all 3? Do the vehicles have to be completely inside six inches if the middle one?
If it does cover it, why are people not excited about getting a 4 up cover save on their BWs again? Put a manz unit in the middle with a PB and big mekk, then boys on the outside 2 with or withoht eavy armor and with warbosses in their or cheap warbosses on bikes behind. Seems lik a pretty good core.

Unfortunately, if you want your Kustom Force Field to ride inside your Battlewagon, only the Battlewagon in which your Kustom Force Field is riding gets the save. If you want more than one Battlewagon protected by the Kustom Force Field, you will have to embark one Big Mek with a Kustom Force Field on each Battlewagon. Or buy a Big Mek with a Kustom Force Field on a Warbike and have him ride beside your Battlewagons.

 TedNugent wrote:

TableTopJosh wrote:
With the new rules if i have 3 BWs next to each other and a kff in the middle one will it cover all 3? Do the vehicles have to be completely inside six inches if the middle one?
If it does cover all three, why are people not excited about getting a 4 up cover save on their BWs again? Put a manz unit in the middle with a PB and big mekk, then boys on the outside 2 with or withoht eavy armor and with warbosses in there or cheap warbosses on bikes behind the bws. Seems lik a pretty good core.

If you put the Big Mek in a battlewagon, then no.

If you put the Big Mek with the KFF on a bike in the middle of 2 battlewagons within 6 inches of the Big Mek, then both Battlewagons can benefit from the KFF save.

This. Battlewagon in front and one on each side with the Big Mek on a bike in the middle. Best you're gonna get.

 44Ronin wrote:
internal balance

[...] cheesy ass combos

[...]competitive WAAC gamers

[...] commonly used buzzwords

Yup.

 44Ronin wrote:
I like it, good internal balance more important than cheesy ass combos for competitive WAAC gamers fixtated and foaming at the mouth with commonly used buzzwords

Haha this statement is so wrong in many ways. In my opinion the new codex cuts back on a lot of varity of builds and took away some of the fun and flavor of a lot of units.

Wanting orks to be more than a doormat in competitive play is all most people want. Your comment has not merit. Orks never had cheesy combos before. We didnt want cheesy combos, all we wanted was a little more attention to some of the outdated options and rules of the codex and in many ways the new codex has failed to do that. So please dont say things that have no real basis.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:

TableTopJosh wrote:
With the new rules if i have 3 BWs next to each other and a kff in the middle one will it cover all 3? Do the vehicles have to be completely inside six inches if the middle one?
If it does cover all three, why are people not excited about getting a 4 up cover save on their BWs again? Put a manz unit in the middle with a PB and big mekk, then boys on the outside 2 with or withoht eavy armor and with warbosses in there or cheap warbosses on bikes behind the bws. Seems lik a pretty good core.

If you put the Big Mek in a battlewagon, then no.

If you put the Big Mek with the KFF on a bike in the middle of 2 battlewagons within 6 inches of the Big Mek, then both Battlewagons can benefit from the KFF save.

This. Battlewagon in front and one on each side with the Big Mek on a bike in the middle. Best you're gonna get.

i guess it could be viable? But leaves that Mek wide open for death. I have a feeling you'd lose the Mek before you got ANY benefit for the Wagons...

 TedNugent wrote:

 44Ronin wrote:
internal balance

[...] cheesy ass combos

[...]competitive WAAC gamers

[...] commonly used buzzwords

Yup.

Everytime I read someone claim something is 'not 'viable' (cue mocking tone), I genuinely want to send them out a dictionary.

I would be more concerned about the fact that the Big Mek costs as much as another Battlewagon. Big Mek w/ KFF on a bike is 110 pts for a 1/3 save. All right, so you're spending as much to get a 1/3 save as you would spend on another wagon.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:

TableTopJosh wrote:
With the new rules if i have 3 BWs next to each other and a kff in the middle one will it cover all 3? Do the vehicles have to be completely inside six inches if the middle one?
If it does cover all three, why are people not excited about getting a 4 up cover save on their BWs again? Put a manz unit in the middle with a PB and big mekk, then boys on the outside 2 with or withoht eavy armor and with warbosses in there or cheap warbosses on bikes behind the bws. Seems lik a pretty good core.

If you put the Big Mek in a battlewagon, then no.

If you put the Big Mek with the KFF on a bike in the middle of 2 battlewagons within 6 inches of the Big Mek, then both Battlewagons can benefit from the KFF save.

This. Battlewagon in front and one on each side with the Big Mek on a bike in the middle. Best you're gonna get.

Okay i really hate what they did with the new kff... they gave already good wave serpents free cover saves, and the ability to almost never be penned unless you feel like getting free d6. Str 7 ignoring cover shots but they nerf our only saves and transports. The codex isnt all bad, but the vehicle nerfs alone make me pissed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TedNugent wrote:
I would be more concerned about the fact that the Big Mek costs as much as another Battlewagon. Big Mek w/ KFF on a bike is 110 pts for a 1/3 save. All right, so you're spending as much to get a 1/3 save as you would spend on another wagon.

With the supplement you canget a 4 up relic kff, but its even more expensive.

Melevolence wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:

TableTopJosh wrote:
With the new rules if i have 3 BWs next to each other and a kff in the middle one will it cover all 3? Do the vehicles have to be completely inside six inches if the middle one?
If it does cover all three, why are people not excited about getting a 4 up cover save on their BWs again? Put a manz unit in the middle with a PB and big mekk, then boys on the outside 2 with or withoht eavy armor and with warbosses in there or cheap warbosses on bikes behind the bws. Seems lik a pretty good core.

If you put the Big Mek in a battlewagon, then no.

If you put the Big Mek with the KFF on a bike in the middle of 2 battlewagons within 6 inches of the Big Mek, then both Battlewagons can benefit from the KFF save.

This. Battlewagon in front and one on each side with the Big Mek on a bike in the middle. Best you're gonna get.

i guess it could be viable? But leaves that Mek wide open for death. I have a feeling you'd lose the Mek before you got ANY benefit for the Wagons...

Well if you kept the Wagons in tight around the Mek (they'll have to be quite close anyway due to the 6" range) you could block LOS to him which then increases his chances of survival.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:

TableTopJosh wrote:
With the new rules if i have 3 BWs next to each other and a kff in the middle one will it cover all 3? Do the vehicles have to be completely inside six inches if the middle one?
If it does cover all three, why are people not excited about getting a 4 up cover save on their BWs again? Put a manz unit in the middle with a PB and big mekk, then boys on the outside 2 with or withoht eavy armor and with warbosses in there or cheap warbosses on bikes behind the bws. Seems lik a pretty good core.

If you put the Big Mek in a battlewagon, then no.

If you put the Big Mek with the KFF on a bike in the middle of 2 battlewagons within 6 inches of the Big Mek, then both Battlewagons can benefit from the KFF save.

This. Battlewagon in front and one on each side with the Big Mek on a bike in the middle. Best you're gonna get.

i guess it could be viable? But leaves that Mek wide open for death. I have a feeling you'd lose the Mek before you got ANY benefit for the Wagons...

Well if you kept the Wagons in tight around the Mek (they'll have to be quite close anyway due to the 6" range) you could block LOS to him which then increases his chances of survival.

Until someone drops a plate on him? D: I need to re-read the rules a bit. I have a hankering that one guy was cheating hardcore last week against me with his pie plates. He was using a marine tank, firing a non barrage shot at my dudes behind walls, no clear sight to them. It's barrage that can do that only, correct?

TableTopJosh wrote:

 44Ronin wrote:
I like it, good internal balance more important than cheesy ass combos for competitive WAAC gamers fixtated and foaming at the mouth with commonly used buzzwords

Haha this statement is so wrong in many ways. In my opinion the new codex cuts back on a lot of varity of builds and took away some of the fun and flavor of a lot of units.

This is what I am talking about. Makes a claim, doesn't mention details or explains the claim.

Wanting orks to be more than a doormat in competitive play is all most people want. Your comment has not merit. Orks never had cheesy combos before.

4th ed Ork codex had a ton of cheese available when it was released....

We didnt want cheesy combos, all we wanted was a little more attention to some of the outdated options and rules of the codex and in many ways the new codex has failed to do that. So please dont say things that have no real basis.

and we got that...waaagh coming back, ere we go etc., lets also mention the points drops on many many units.

No...you don't speak of such things...

People primarilly keep bringing up the following.

The KFF being docked in effectiveness. Something which was only supposed to be a marginal piece of wargear, but was always used as integral part of list building by the meta of 4-6th.

Mob rule changes

Wartrukks being fragile...

Melevolence wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:

TableTopJosh wrote:
With the new rules if i have 3 BWs next to each other and a kff in the middle one will it cover all 3? Do the vehicles have to be completely inside six inches if the middle one?
If it does cover all three, why are people not excited about getting a 4 up cover save on their BWs again? Put a manz unit in the middle with a PB and big mekk, then boys on the outside 2 with or withoht eavy armor and with warbosses in there or cheap warbosses on bikes behind the bws. Seems lik a pretty good core.

If you put the Big Mek in a battlewagon, then no.

If you put the Big Mek with the KFF on a bike in the middle of 2 battlewagons within 6 inches of the Big Mek, then both Battlewagons can benefit from the KFF save.

This. Battlewagon in front and one on each side with the Big Mek on a bike in the middle. Best you're gonna get.

i guess it could be viable? But leaves that Mek wide open for death. I have a feeling you'd lose the Mek before you got ANY benefit for the Wagons...

Well if you kept the Wagons in tight around the Mek (they'll have to be quite close anyway due to the 6" range) you could block LOS to him which then increases his chances of survival.

Until someone drops a plate on him? D: I need to re-read the rules a bit. I have a hankering that one guy was cheating hardcore last week against me with his pie plates. He was using a marine tank, firing a non barrage shot at my dudes behind walls, no clear sight to them. It's barrage that can do that only, correct?

Yup. Only Barrage weapons, and things like Smart Missile Systems and other homing weapons can target models and then remove them as casualties that the firer can't see.

4th ed Ork codex had a ton of cheese available when it was released....

In all fairness, the 4th Edition Codex was released three editions ago, and the Orks, though starting strong, hadn't exactly been on an upward swing.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:

TableTopJosh wrote:
With the new rules if i have 3 BWs next to each other and a kff in the middle one will it cover all 3? Do the vehicles have to be completely inside six inches if the middle one?
If it does cover all three, why are people not excited about getting a 4 up cover save on their BWs again? Put a manz unit in the middle with a PB and big mekk, then boys on the outside 2 with or withoht eavy armor and with warbosses in there or cheap warbosses on bikes behind the bws. Seems lik a pretty good core.

If you put the Big Mek in a battlewagon, then no.

If you put the Big Mek with the KFF on a bike in the middle of 2 battlewagons within 6 inches of the Big Mek, then both Battlewagons can benefit from the KFF save.

This. Battlewagon in front and one on each side with the Big Mek on a bike in the middle. Best you're gonna get.

i guess it could be viable? But leaves that Mek wide open for death. I have a feeling you'd lose the Mek before you got ANY benefit for the Wagons...

Well if you kept the Wagons in tight around the Mek (they'll have to be quite close anyway due to the 6" range) you could block LOS to him which then increases his chances of survival.

Until someone drops a plate on him? D: I need to re-read the rules a bit. I have a hankering that one guy was cheating hardcore last week against me with his pie plates. He was using a marine tank, firing a non barrage shot at my dudes behind walls, no clear sight to them. It's barrage that can do that only, correct?

Yup. Only Barrage weapons, and things like Smart Missile Systems and other homing weapons can target models and then remove them as casualties that the firer can't see.

Well then. I brought it up a few times, that his tank was making shots even though it was sitting behind buildings, while my Orks were also...behind buildings. He smiled as if I were joking, but I gave him a look and he rolled for scatter anyway. Wasn't worth fighting over. I ended up blowing up the tank. Yes, I went in and Klawed it, despite my Boyz glancing it to death. I wanted it to EXPLODE with my Orky annoyance. :(

 Zog Off wrote:

4th ed Ork codex had a ton of cheese available when it was released....

In all fairness, the 4th Edition Codex was released three editions ago, and the Orks, though starting strong, hadn't exactly been on an upward swing.

Yes... and the cheese was based on rule abuses made by WAAC gamers.

The nob wound allocation nonsense and such...

I prefer such crap.... removed

 44Ronin wrote:

TableTopJosh wrote:

 44Ronin wrote:
I like it, good internal balance more important than cheesy ass combos for competitive WAAC gamers fixtated and foaming at the mouth with commonly used buzzwords

Haha this statement is so wrong in many ways. In my opinion the new codex cuts back on a lot of varity of builds and took away some of the fun and flavor of a lot of units.

This is what I am talking about. Makes a claim, doesn't mention details or explains the claim.

Wanting orks to be more than a doormat in competitive play is all most people want. Your comment has not merit. Orks never had cheesy combos before.

4th ed Ork codex had a ton of cheese available when it was released....

You are the worst type of person on these forums.
1. I didnt explain because this forum has be an ongoing discussion about the nerfed army types and units. Ie kan wall getting the shaft, trukk rush losing ramshackle and new changes to the mob rule, and deff rolla bws getting nerfed, nob biker lists losing cybork invulns, etc.
2. Ork cheese is so mild compared to most armies. Especially in last few years in 6th and now in 7th we have none. Wanting a competitive army isnt the same as wanting a 2 plus rerollable deathstar so please stop acting like ork players dont deserve some powerful units.