+ there is a chance that if Grukk model is not released as a character miniature to buy It might be that if we are getting a new starter Box that might include Grukk.
why I am sure that we will get this model one way or the other?
Squidbot has seen them and so far every thing he saw has been true because we have seen them ourselves as time went by.
Musibatkhan wrote: The Red WAAAGH! is clearly about Grukk the Face Rippa.
I had my doubts about Sguidbot saying that he saw a Warboss models with a squig and a buzzsaw.
A hundred pages ago I asked if what he saw was Warboss Grukk but he did not confirm.
But now I am sure we will get a Model for Grukk the Face Rippa.
He is even mentioned in the new Rule book and his WAAAGH! is called the Red Waaagh! out of all the new models I am excited about this one.
I hope it lives up to my expectations.
He also gets significant face time in this new codex (fluffwise, no model), a section on the red waagh, units and characters of note within it etc.
Hmm, interesting. It's a bit odd that he gets face time in the codex and in the fluff part of the new codex but no rules or model... I'm really wondering what's the next WD going to entail?
We have his origins on Eyrok under warboss Krugg
Devious mek Mogrok who spurs him onto greater conquests
How he got his name
Conquet of Eyrok
Assault on the Sanctus subsector
Assault and Destruction of the Obsidian Glaives Homeworld (chaptermaster goes byebye)
Bit of a map of him bunny hopping between planets
And a breakdown of units of note within his Waaaaagh (Da Fists of Grogg, Goffboss Drogg etc)
Another new, no-name supplement is the last thing I wanted for the Orks. We lost so many awesome, old characters and now we get this guy ala Crimson Slaughter.
Gratlugg wrote: Another new, no-name supplement is the last thing I wanted for the Orks. We lost so many awesome, old characters and now we get this guy ala Crimson Slaughter.
Although it is disappointing that we lost named characters, however, it is possible they add them again in the future as supplements.
The more ways I can play my army, the better! I am all for more supplements and/or dattaslates.
Gratlugg wrote: Another new, no-name supplement is the last thing I wanted for the Orks. We lost so many awesome, old characters and now we get this guy ala Crimson Slaughter.
Yes we all are sad for Wazdakka and others ( mainly all those who did not have GW models) I love wazdakka and his half page lore.
But I am so glad that we might get a new Warboss character to take other than Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka.
I am sick of seeing him for what seems like eternity.
And I seriously think Ghazghkull is a bad Character.( fluff wise) He is said to be the most successful Ork Warlord and yet he has not achieved his main goal in years. He is on par with Abaddon and his unsuccessful black crusades.
Gratlugg wrote: Another new, no-name supplement is the last thing I wanted for the Orks. We lost so many awesome, old characters and now we get this guy ala Crimson Slaughter.
Yes we all are sad for Wazdakka and others ( mainly all those who did not have GW models) I love wazdakka and his half page lore.
But I am so glad that we might get a new Warboss character to take other than Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka.
I am sick of seeing him for what seems like eternity.
And I seriously think Ghazghkull is a bad Character.( fluff wise) He is said to be the most successful Ork Warlord and yet he has not achieved his main goal in years. He is on par with Abaddon and his unsuccessful black crusades.
Both of them are actually bad guys in black armour, so they loose... end of the story.
I know it is boring as hell...
Gratlugg wrote: Another new, no-name supplement is the last thing I wanted for the Orks. We lost so many awesome, old characters and now we get this guy ala Crimson Slaughter.
Yes we all are sad for Wazdakka and others ( mainly all those who did not have GW models) I love wazdakka and his half page lore.
But I am so glad that we might get a new Warboss character to take other than Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka.
I am sick of seeing him for what seems like eternity.
And I seriously think Ghazghkull is a bad Character.( fluff wise) He is said to be the most successful Ork Warlord and yet he has not achieved his main goal in years. He is on par with Abaddon and his unsuccessful black crusades.
while it is nice to get a new named warboss, i wouldn't want them to just drop ghazkull. and i do believe he accomplished his goals at armageddon, which were to a) fight da humiez til he got bored, and b) turn armageddon into a perpetual warzone. he basically created disneyland for orks. who knows what sort of crazy thing he'll get up to next?
as far as abaddon's black crusades go, how do we know they were unsuccessful? his motives are never exactly made clear. there's only one i ever heard any details of, where everyone thought he was after artifact x, which he did manage to get, when he was really after some possessed librarian or something like that, which he also got his hands on, if i recall right.
Gratlugg wrote: Another new, no-name supplement is the last thing I wanted for the Orks. We lost so many awesome, old characters and now we get this guy ala Crimson Slaughter.
Yes we all are sad for Wazdakka and others ( mainly all those who did not have GW models) I love wazdakka and his half page lore.
But I am so glad that we might get a new Warboss character to take other than Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka.
I am sick of seeing him for what seems like eternity.
And I seriously think Ghazghkull is a bad Character.( fluff wise) He is said to be the most successful Ork Warlord and yet he has not achieved his main goal in years. He is on par with Abaddon and his unsuccessful black crusades.
Both of them are actually bad guys in black armour, so they loose... end of the story.
I know it is boring as hell...
yes i know. Sadly GW can never show us the bad boyz ever winning even if they are the very best of that faction.
But as the fluff keeps saying Orks are so numerous and yet we have one Warboss character to show for that. and most of the secondary character come from the same Ghazghkull story too e.g: Snikkrot, Nazdreg, Da Vulcha boyz.
so If we get Grukk we might get new characters that accompanied his Red Waaagh!
So I for one want a new warboss other than MR Ghazghkull.
Man, I know it has been said a lot already, but that Mob Rule chart is really piss poor design at its finest. Three different results, for three different scenarios on a whole. Does it even explain what happens if you don't meet the criteria? What happens if you roll a 2-3 and you don't have a character in the mob? Do you pass? Do you fail? And the random allocation of wounds is even more sloppy. How the Hell do you figure out which model gets the hits? Roll a 30 sided die? And in the end, as your mob wittles down, you now have 2 in 3 chances to fail the Mob chart. Just seems stupid really. Very stupid, and as if it were thought out at midnight and hadn't a drop of caffeine in their system to make them at least a bit alert while writing it down.
Bosses of the note (other than named characters) mentioned in the book:
Grukk
Gashrakk Da Flash (loots in the wake of Grukks Waaagh)
Great Despot of Dregruk (Long standing war with Gathrog)
Arch-Dictator of Gathrog (See above)
Arch-Arsonist of Charadon (Pyromaniac Orks)
Arch-Maniac of Calverna (Big Mek wired into a Forgeworld)
Gratlugg wrote: Another new, no-name supplement is the last thing I wanted for the Orks. We lost so many awesome, old characters and now we get this guy ala Crimson Slaughter.
Only in fluff. In practice it will be more like the Black legion supplement.
Gratlugg wrote: Another new, no-name supplement is the last thing I wanted for the Orks. We lost so many awesome, old characters and now we get this guy ala Crimson Slaughter.
Yes we all are sad for Wazdakka and others ( mainly all those who did not have GW models) I love wazdakka and his half page lore.
But I am so glad that we might get a new Warboss character to take other than Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka.
I am sick of seeing him for what seems like eternity.
And I seriously think Ghazghkull is a bad Character.( fluff wise) He is said to be the most successful Ork Warlord and yet he has not achieved his main goal in years. He is on par with Abaddon and his unsuccessful black crusades.
while it is nice to get a new named warboss, i wouldn't want them to just drop ghazkull. and i do believe he accomplished his goals at armageddon, which were to a) fight da humiez til he got bored, and b) turn armageddon into a perpetual warzone. he basically created disneyland for orks. who knows what sort of crazy thing he'll get up to next?
as far as abaddon's black crusades go, how do we know they were unsuccessful? his motives are never exactly made clear. there's only one i ever heard any details of, where everyone thought he was after artifact x, which he did manage to get, when he was really after some possessed librarian or something like that, which he also got his hands on, if i recall right.
I never said they should drop Ghazghkull but that does not mean he should be the only Warboss we get as a character.
Look at the fantasy counterpart. The Orcs there have so many characters compared to the 40k.
+ the Warbosses and Orc characters in fantasy Achieved huge Feats.
the only one that impressed me in 40k was Wazdakka single handedly bringing down a Titan!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Melcavuk wrote: Bosses of the note (other than named characters) mentioned in the book:
Grukk
Gashrakk Da Flash (loots in the wake of Grukks Waaagh)
Great Despot of Dregruk (Long standing war with Gathrog)
Arch-Dictator of Gathrog (See above)
Arch-Arsonist of Charadon (Pyromaniac Orks)
Arch-Maniac of Calverna (Big Mek wired into a Forgeworld)
Those sound very yummy
cant wait to get my hand on the Codex to read that new Fluff.
Would be totally awesome if they had a more 'advanced' relic system. in the sense that it allowed you to create a named character by effect.
As currently the new relics are really interesting (thinking the AP3 bike and the 6 shot TL shoota). You can basically make a character this way the only main problem is that in all other respects you are pretty limited.
if relics was expanded and it was to include way more customisation of a character that would be wicked. So like off the top of my head.. You could make any character in the army your warlord, so say a burna boy. He then becomes a HQ choice, but you get the chance to beef him up stat and wargear wise. it would have to be pretty complicated tbh, as in allow you to beef one stat for x points and then therefore limited in other stats (aka prevent you creating a ridiculously OP model). But would be sweet to bring a burna boy who has a two shot burna, high str, has a mount (lets say a squig) and could bring a stat increase to a squad, such as flaming bullets (which could be a AP decrease for example).
However thats just a boy dreaming.
On-topic
T5, move and shoot, i suppose considering I imagine the only points difference is the cost of the bike? so roughly 25pts.
Thats probably not a bad investment, given that with the SAG you'd never be out of range really, but positioning is nice. I for some reason was assuming that the pts difference would be stupid just because its gimmicky. but in reality its probably not.
And I seriously think Ghazghkull is a bad Character.( fluff wise) He is said to be the most successful Ork Warlord and yet he has not achieved his main goal in years. He is on par with Abaddon and his unsuccessful black crusades.
Wait a second... Ghazghkull's GOAL? Ghazghkull's goal is to FIGHT!! In that sense he accomplished his goal quite well. So what if he never actually conquered Armageddon? He started one hell of a good Waaaaaggh!
And I seriously think Ghazghkull is a bad Character.( fluff wise) He is said to be the most successful Ork Warlord and yet he has not achieved his main goal in years. He is on par with Abaddon and his unsuccessful black crusades.
Wait a second... Ghazghkull's GOAL? Ghazghkull's goal is to FIGHT!! In that sense he accomplished his goal quite well. So what if he never actually conquered Armageddon? He started one hell of a good Waaaaaggh!
Yeah I guess us orks are very easy to please.
Ork fluff is so sad that any bone GW throw at us we are happy.
On the other side when you read the Imperial side it says Ghazghkulls WAAAGH! was successfully halted. They don't say Ghazghkull WAAAGH went out of control.
And I seriously think Ghazghkull is a bad Character.( fluff wise) He is said to be the most successful Ork Warlord and yet he has not achieved his main goal in years. He is on par with Abaddon and his unsuccessful black crusades.
Wait a second... Ghazghkull's GOAL? Ghazghkull's goal is to FIGHT!! In that sense he accomplished his goal quite well. So what if he never actually conquered Armageddon? He started one hell of a good Waaaaaggh!
If by one hell of a good Waaagh you mean literally the largest Ork invasion in the history of the galaxy! The stalemate he achieved was a huge win because now this absolutely crucial hive world is locked in a constant state of warfare. The Imperials can't give it up because it's too important to that region of space, but don't have the resources necessary to completely eliminate the Ork threat because they just keep pouring in, attracted as they are by the immense Waaagh energy.
Back on topic - do meganobs still have the same transport options? I'm thinking this new codex might be the right time to invest in a MANz missile.
Melcavuk, I have a question that I don't think I've seen posted before.
Does the Gorkanaut / Morkanaut have any additional rules that specify how embarking / disembarking works for it? How does embarking / disembarking work for it when it is locked in combat? Are there any rules to that effect?
Murrdox wrote:Melcavuk, I have a question that I don't think I've seen posted before.
Does the Gorkanaut / Morkanaut have any additional rules that specify how embarking / disembarking works for it? How does embarking / disembarking work for it when it is locked in combat? Are there any rules to that effect?
nope just the same rules in WD that it has a single access point in the front.
Dez wrote:Can Burnaz still count as a power weapon in CC?
Does a Mek that takes Mega Armor still have the ability to take a Burna?
And nope, Bigmek in mega armour comes with a KMB and klaw flat, can change the KMB for kombi shootas or twinlinked shoota.
Thanks Mel, I had always wanted to make that conversion...kinda glad I never got to it now Sad that we miss out on a power weapon striking at initiative though.
Melcavuk wrote: Bosses of the note (other than named characters) mentioned in the book:
Grukk
Gashrakk Da Flash (loots in the wake of Grukks Waaagh)
Great Despot of Dregruk (Long standing war with Gathrog)
Arch-Dictator of Gathrog (See above)
Arch-Arsonist of Charadon (Pyromaniac Orks)
Arch-Maniac of Calverna (Big Mek wired into a Forgeworld)
i am very excited to be reading new narratives about different orks other than the same ones we have seen for years.
PipeAlley wrote: I think as a community we should just all agree that Cybork still grants a 5++ Inv save and not 6+ FNP. Same points it was last edition.
I think other race players would let us do it. Otherwise we strike!
Barring that we need to bribe whomever writes the GWFAQ pages and have them errata it!!!!
i vote yes on 1!
Automatically Appended Next Post: that sucks about the no gun swap guess its time to but those big shootas on the damn thing already
PipeAlley wrote: I think as a community we should just all agree that Cybork still grants a 5++ Inv save and not 6+ FNP. Same points it was last edition.
I think other race players would let us do it. Otherwise we strike!
Barring that we need to bribe whomever writes the GWFAQ pages and have them errata it!!!!
That change does invalidate my unit of 10 Nobz, but the bigger insult is the move to make shootas a point more expensive... it completely screwed with my Green Tide army
Red Waaagh! is probably not going to have anything to do with the Kult of Speed, right? I mean, nothing I have read about Grukk (which, admittedly, isn't a lot) has identified him as a Speed Freak.
I'm hopeful for a Speed Freak supplement, though. Imagine how awesome our army would be if we could take Warbikers as Troops in 7th Edition.
Skullcrakka Boyz - these Skull-Nobz covered in scars and trophies from their many victories
Wasteland Warbikerz
Splitgrin Dakkajets
Baddfrags Looted Wagons
Wingnutz Flyboyz
Big Red da Warphead
Goffboss Drogg
Mogroks Big Gunz
Not a big fan of the meganobs. I wanted a lot less skin showing and all the heads I've seen look pretty lame.
Will probably buy a pack and up-armour them, but it might be easier and cheaper to just start from standard nobs. Does anyone do full-face ork helmets, or do I need to try and scrounge up some fantasy black orc heads?
I've used Black Orc heads on nearly all of mine...I have about 50. I am still planning on buying a box of them, just because they are so close to the existing line. I'll make a Big Mek out of one, add Black Orc heads to the others, and use those heads for Nobz/Flash Gitz.
tehinchman wrote: Hey quick question what options can meks take? Thanks!
Mek can take:
Grot Oiler,
Kombi Shootas
Rokkit Launcha
Kustom Mega Blasta
Kustom Mega Slugga
Twinlinked Shoota
Kill Saw
But not a big shoota, even though the Loota/Burna kit comes with one for him...
No big shoota Sadly
BooBoo wrote:It is interesting that the Mek can purchase a Rokkit Launcha, makes that a lot more useful than a Kombi Rokkit.
Melcavuk:
Can a Mek purchase 'Eavy Armor? Of the weapons you listed above, can you please tell us the costs of each?
5 for anything except the Kombiskorcha, Kustom Mega Slugga (10). And 30 for Killsaw. You can have a killsaw and a gun but then you're putting alot of points on a single wound model
Killsaw on a mek seems dumb. Expensive attack on a squishy 1 wound model that attacks last. He wont ever, ever get to use it unless his opponent misses everyone of his attacks.
Vineheart01 wrote: Killsaw on a mek seems dumb. Expensive attack on a squishy 1 wound model that attacks last. He wont ever, ever get to use it unless his opponent misses everyone of his attacks.
Hm, I'm not so sure about that. If you put the mek in the middle of a boyz mob it's an extra PK that's super effective against vehicles. It depends on the points, but if you want to be truly orky and go all out assault they might be worth it for tankbustin'. 2 S7 armorbane attacks are nothing to be sniffed at!
oh, and Grabba Klaw... I haven't seen any info on that (points, rules, etc).
For the wreaking ball, I think it said it was like a shooting attack... does that mean you can't do it if you move in the shooting phase, or is it a drive by weapon?
Watching Paint Dry wrote: oh, and Grabba Klaw... I haven't seen any info on that (points, rules, etc).
For the wreaking ball, I think it said it was like a shooting attack... does that mean you can't do it if you move in the shooting phase, or is it a drive by weapon?
I think Melcavuk already covered these. If I recall this correctly, the Grabba Klaw can force a vehicle (not a flyer) to stop moving, I do not know for how long and how will it succeed (perhaps on 4+), so it's practically the same thing as before.
I do not know if the Wrecking Ball counts as a shooting attack, but it has a 3" range, S9, can't remember well its AP.
Vineheart01 wrote: Killsaw on a mek seems dumb. Expensive attack on a squishy 1 wound model that attacks last. He wont ever, ever get to use it unless his opponent misses everyone of his attacks.
It's a chainfist. Nobody buys a chainfist to fight challenges with it.
So, what other supplements are we expecting (as well as Ghaz)?
- Speed Freaks would make sense (and may see the return of Wazdakka, so don't throw away those conversions yet)
- something for this new guy Grukk, possibly with a new model to match. Would make sense given they've gone to the trouble of setting him up in the fluff
- a flying circus (koptas and stormboyz as troops?) - would appeal to GW, as they'd sell a bucket load of models, especially if they release plastic koptas (although we've heard no more recently on that rumour)
- a walker army (kanz as troops, dredds as elites, special mek rules)
- just maybe a proper Loota army, although maybe not, given the half-hearted effort for Looted Wagons
Sorry, I'm not expecting anything for the Snakebites, unless FW is about to release lots of new suitable models. Ditto for a grot army :(
streamdragon wrote: Yeah guys, totally chill! I mean it's not like people have listed known issues or anything!
It definitely seems our characters will be in some trouble when challenged due to the lack of invulns. Thankfully warbosses are pretty tough so they should be able to survive what other characters can dish out and then just instant kill them with a PK. Nobs I would hesitate to accept challenges with - you'll need the bosspole to keep the unit in check, so why risk losing it fighting just one 'umie? Shooting shouldn't be as big of a problem, just use LO,S! a lot.
I don't think anybody was saying this new book was flawless, but it's what we have now and crying about it certainly won't help anyone. Just give it some time, we haven't even seen everything yet. Good lists will emerge. Until then, let's try to stay positive and figure out ways around the weaknesses we have.
I tried a challenge with a Nob...not good. The I6 killed him before he even swung.
Clang wrote: So, what other supplements are we expecting (as well as Ghaz)?
- Speed Freaks would make sense (and may see the return of Wazdakka, so don't throw away those conversions yet)
- something for this new guy Grukk, possibly with a new model to match. Would make sense given they've gone to the trouble of setting him up in the fluff
- a flying circus (koptas and stormboyz as troops?) - would appeal to GW, as they'd sell a bucket load of models, especially if they release plastic koptas (although we've heard no more recently on that rumour)
- a walker army (kanz as troops, dredds as elites, special mek rules)
- just maybe a proper Loota army, although maybe not, given the half-hearted effort for Looted Wagons
Sorry, I'm not expecting anything for the Snakebites, unless FW is about to release lots of new suitable models. Ditto for a grot army :(
I'm sure the kult of speed will be brought back in some way - people really love warbikaz and nob bikaz too.
I'd love to see a freebootaz book that would have snazzier troops. Imagine slugga boyz with two sluggaz instead of a choppa and slugga - being able to fire both and still assault! Or shoota boyz with kustom shootaz! Kaptinz! With fancy hats!
I doubt we'll get seperate klan books, but I think we might get a 'Codex Supplement: Da Klanz'. I know for a fact I'd love that. I don't think it would be very hard for GW to make a squiggoth kit so that snakebitez actually have a unique unit or two in there. The other klanz would mostly consist of FOC changes, I think. Most of the background already exists too!
I'm also hoping that Ol' Zogwort will be brought back, but better. Imagine the ol' warp'ead with better stats and level 4 mastery... Make him a LoW like Ghaz and you can make a whole book centered around him too.
Clang wrote: So, what other supplements are we expecting (as well as Ghaz)?
- Speed Freaks would make sense (and may see the return of Wazdakka, so don't throw away those conversions yet)
- something for this new guy Grukk, possibly with a new model to match. Would make sense given they've gone to the trouble of setting him up in the fluff
- a flying circus (koptas and stormboyz as troops?) - would appeal to GW, as they'd sell a bucket load of models, especially if they release plastic koptas (although we've heard no more recently on that rumour)
- a walker army (kanz as troops, dredds as elites, special mek rules)
- just maybe a proper Loota army, although maybe not, given the half-hearted effort for Looted Wagons
Sorry, I'm not expecting anything for the Snakebites, unless FW is about to release lots of new suitable models. Ditto for a grot army :(
I'd really say of the other armies Speed Freaks and Snakebites have the most potential but the flying circus sounds like a lot of fun (probably including the jets in there too).
Speed Freaks - Wazdakka, Buggies, Trakks (including Flak Trakk conversion kit), bikes as troops along with trukk boys
Snakebite - Squiggoth, Boar Boys as troops (add them in as fast attack or elite into the main ork dex), Nobz on boars optional upgrade instead of bikes would be a great alternative to the bike and open up a new possible death star unit. Make runthearders more central possible "big" runtherder HQ Snakebite only. - Heck it will never happen (or not for a long time) but I can dream.
No he came from a back world, think he was meant to represent snakebite in the codex hence the more than literal references from the snakes that he had on him and his back story, if there was a snakebite dex then he should be in it.
Watching Paint Dry wrote:MelcavukMade - Thanks for all the replies... very much appreciated.
Can you still get Meks in Lootas and Burna boy mobs? or are the HQ extras only?
Also, did Kommandos lose rokkits as an option?
Meks are still available in all their old squads
Watching Paint Dry wrote:oh, and Grabba Klaw... I haven't seen any info on that (points, rules, etc).
For the wreaking ball, I think it said it was like a shooting attack... does that mean you can't do it if you move in the shooting phase, or is it a drive by weapon?
Grabba klaw stops a non skimmer/flyer vehicle moving on a 4+, it has a 2 inch range
There is nothing stating the Wrecking ball has any other rules beyond its 3 inch range and str/AP, therefore you'd have to assume it follows all normal shooting rules.
Grabba klaw stops a non skimmer/flyer vehicle moving on a 4+, it has a 2 inch range
Does this treat it as immobilized for purposes of auto hitting it in close combat?
No sorry, oddly it functions in the enemies movement phase, the ork player can select an enemy vehicle during the opponents movement phase that is within 2 inches of the grabbin klaw. On a 4+ the vehicle cannot move.
ceorron wrote:For anyone who has the codex are deffkopters still 2 wounds. OK if they are not
Oh yeah sorry about Zogwort he is a freeboota and his world is catachan so not really back water.
Vineheart01 wrote: Killsaw on a mek seems dumb. Expensive attack on a squishy 1 wound model that attacks last. He wont ever, ever get to use it unless his opponent misses everyone of his attacks.
Or unless his opponent is fighting another character from the mob, like the nob.
No sorry, oddly it functions in the enemies movement phase,
Interesting....Hrm. It would be nice if upon "stopping" the enemy vehicle, that vehicle counted as moving flat out, and couldn't fire any of it's weapons that turn. Otherwise I'm confused by it's use...maybe hold a vehicle in place so CC units get free hits vs it in the opponents turn?
No sorry, oddly it functions in the enemies movement phase,
Interesting....Hrm. It would be nice if upon "stopping" the enemy vehicle, that vehicle counted as moving flat out, and couldn't fire any of it's weapons that turn. Otherwise I'm confused by it's use...maybe hold a vehicle in place so CC units get free hits vs it in the opponents turn?
Suppose if there was infantry near an enemy vehicle you could drive up, disembark your boyz and have them charge the infantry.
Opponents turn you grab the vehicle, holding it in place. Boyz are locked in combat so safe from shooting, finish off the unit that assault phase.
Back to your turn, Boyz charge the vehicle and start taking it apart.
Relies on a bit of luck but could be effective, maybe?
I wonder if Grukk Face Rippa is cool enough to have an invulnerable save. Maybe they'll throw him a bone and give him a 6+ invulnerable on top of his 6+ feel no pain save.
bigdark wrote: Grukk sounds ripe for a conversion from the sewn together rat ogre from Fantasy Island of Blood.
Why, yes. Yes he does.
Spoiler:
This. Looks. Amazing.
Is that a nob's head or a warboss's? What did you do for the legs?
Aw, shucks, thanks! I really like rat ogres for ork conversions- their posture is just right, and no one ever counts to see they only have 3 fingers .
The head is the snearing face from the nob box, I gave him a jaw extension to bring him in line with warboss-sized heads. For the legs, I cut them off at the knee, shaved off the rat fur, and it's just a green stuff pants and boots sculpt over that, using AOBR warboss feet as a guide. He's got two buddies (the other Isle of Blood ogre, and one from the Screaming Bell), so I'm thinking of making a squad of three un-armored meganobz. They're two or three times the bulk of a standard nob, I think that should count for a 2+ save! But if Grukk gets some cool rules, I may have to give this guy a powerklaw and a promotion.
Could anyone clarify how the Wierdboy works.
Is it Mastery Lvl 1 ( 1) plus D6 for the phase. And one extra point for a mob of 10 or more with in 12 inches (1) for a total of 8 at best
or one for each mob within 12 inches. 1 mob= 1, 2 mobs = 2
and so on. For a total of 8+ ?
warhead01 wrote: Could anyone clarify how the Wierdboy works.
Is it Mastery Lvl 1 ( 1) plus D6 for the phase. And one extra point for a mob of 10 or more with in 12 inches (1) for a total of 8 at best
or one for each mob within 12 inches. 1 mob= 1, 2 mobs = 2
and so on. For a total of 8+ ?
Thank you.
Just +1 if there is 10+ 'ere we go models
So technically most of the time you'lll get +1.
a weirdboy (unless he ends up isolated) generates his mastery level +1
if you have a level1 and level2 weirdboy in your army you will have:
I believe from Mel's wording it's if a Weirdboy fails to successfully manifest a Psychic Power in their Psychic Phase, denied powers counting as being successful.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: I believe from Mel's wording it's if a Weirdboy fails to successfully manifest a Psychic Power in their Psychic Phase, denied powers counting as being successful.
" he must pass at least one Psychic test during that phase or suffer a single Strength 2 hit at the end of that Psychic phase with no saves allowed. This special rule does not apply if the Weirdboy is embarked inside a Transport or Building" Is the relevant line of ruliing, depending on what we count as psychic test I believe it means successfully manifest a power (whether denied shortly after or not). The phrase "atleast one" implies that you aren't taking an LD test by summoning the charge, and leads me to the logical conclusion that it means manifest a power.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: I believe from Mel's wording it's if a Weirdboy fails to successfully manifest a Psychic Power in their Psychic Phase, denied powers counting as being successful.
" he must pass at least one Psychic test during that phase or suffer a single Strength 2 hit at the end of that Psychic phase with no saves allowed. This special rule does not apply if the Weirdboy is embarked inside a Transport or Building" Is the relevant line of ruliing, depending on what we count as psychic test I believe it means successfully manifest a power (whether denied shortly after or not). The phrase "atleast one" implies that you aren't taking an LD test by summoning the charge, and leads me to the logical conclusion that it means manifest a power.
Just a clarification, but does Zagstruk's Vulcha Klaws do anything but give a S8 AP2 HoW attack? If so, does he have any other CC gear beside choppa/slugga?
Grimskul wrote: Just a clarification, but does Zagstruk's Vulcha Klaws do anything but give a S8 AP2 HoW attack? If so, does he have any other CC gear beside choppa/slugga?
I don't think so. He's basically designed to hit first, and hopefully kill outright at the start of the challenge.
The moment he fails the ST/Toughness roll (usually a 1) or the opponent has a ++ save and pass (or T5+) then bye bye Zagstruk.
I dunno but it's at the very least one hell of a conversion opportunity to model a grot miley cyrus
Cut the grot holding the chain off the weirdboy model and splice it into the wrecking ball.
Or a plastic night goblin fanatic? - just move the ball so he's sitting on it instead of whirling it around (although replacing it with a larger ball would be better). Hmm, one of them's even waggling his tongue, and one of the others just might be twerking
Does Zagstruk's hammer of wrath attack have its own rule, or is it saying instead of the normal hammer of wrath? if its instead of the normal, the chicken-kicker will almost never get that attack since you have to NOT use your jumppacks in the movement phase to get hammer of wrath in the assault phase (which is stupid....)
Quick question Mel: can the Nobz, as part of a Nobz mob, have access to all the gear/weapon in the Orky Know-wots?
And do all models in the unit have to take the same?
For instance, if I want to give GitFinda to some Nobz, do I have to give it to all those in the mob?
Vineheart01 wrote: Does Zagstruk's hammer of wrath attack have its own rule, or is it saying instead of the normal hammer of wrath? if its instead of the normal, the chicken-kicker will almost never get that attack since you have to NOT use your jumppacks in the movement phase to get hammer of wrath in the assault phase (which is stupid....)
Unless you just use the rokkit pac twice and take that dangerous terrain test.
nflagey wrote:Quick question Mel: can the Nobz, as part of a Nobz mob, have access to all the gear/weapon in the Orky Know-wots?
And do all models in the unit have to take the same?
For instance, if I want to give GitFinda to some Nobz, do I have to give it to all those in the mob?
Thanks!
No access to Orks Know Wots table, basically they have weapon options, eavy armour or boss poles (or bikes)
Vineheart01 wrote:Does Zagstruk's hammer of wrath attack have its own rule, or is it saying instead of the normal hammer of wrath? if its instead of the normal, the chicken-kicker will almost never get that attack since you have to NOT use your jumppacks in the movement phase to get hammer of wrath in the assault phase (which is stupid....)
Instead of normal hammer of wrath, so rather limited. better with the Ork FoC
RedNoak wrote:are the weirdboys power triggered randomly? or can you choose which power to use?
Rolled like any other psyker at start of the game.
fedorarogue wrote: Wow this thread slowed right down from its growing 5+ pages a day!
Most of the questions we had have already been answered by Melcavuk.
The only questions I have remaining for example have to do with the Waaagh! Ghazghkull supplement, which no one has access to at the moment. By the time they will, I'll also have mine anyway. so there's not much to talk about.
Just waiting to get my own copy in and see if there are any updates to it ..all in all orks will be played similar to what they have in the past with some minor differneces
fedorarogue wrote: Wow this thread slowed right down from its growing 5+ pages a day!
Most of the questions we had have already been answered by Melcavuk.
The only questions I have remaining for example have to do with the Waaagh! Ghazghkull supplement, which no one has access to at the moment. By the time they will, I'll also have mine anyway. so there's not much to talk about.
Though we do know from the two blurry pages we've seen, there is a section (formation?) on "da Vulcha Skwad" and the blitz brigade
morfydd wrote: Just waiting to get my own copy in and see if there are any updates to it ..all in all orks will be played similar to what they have in the past with some minor differneces
Which is how it should be.
With only a couple exceptions, this is a much improved book.
streamdragon wrote: We clearly have different definitions of "much improved".
In all honestly, apart from the 3 most used units that went up in cost a bit and the removal of 5++, every unit entry has been tweaked upwards and internal balance has been drastically improved. The only real problem is the Mob Rule, which may or may not turn out to make the army really weak overall, as time will tell.
streamdragon wrote: We clearly have different definitions of "much improved".
In all honestly, apart from the 3 most used units that went up in cost a bit and the removal of 5++, every unit entry has been tweaked upwards and internal balance has been drastically improved. The only real problem is the Mob Rule, which may or may not turn out to make the army really weak overall, as time will tell.
My feeling to. People are overstating the losses and ignoring how much better most things are.
One big issue when people complain about new books is that they didn't see what they wanted improved.
As far as the new mob rule, they still make a leadership roll, then they roll on the chart correct? The chart is a big improvement for everything other than the 20 - 30 boy mobs. The more elite orks, like nobs and flash gitz, never benefited from the mod rule (which was strange).
Lootas actually came down in cost, which would be awesome but for their sudden jump to HS. Id gladly pay the extra point to have them back in elites where they're not competing with half the codex.
Nobz also came down in (base) cost, but the Cybork nerf and the Exhaust Cloud nerf beyond offset the change.
And "internal balance" is a bit of a red herring descriptor, to me. The new Nid book had better internal balance at the cost of neutering good choices rather than buffing bad or lacking choices. I dont see the Ork book doing much different bar a few units (like Tankbustas who inarguably got buffed).
There are numerous "Real" problems with this book.
I ran the math for Mob rule back on page 213 I think. It is almost entirely a nerf, unless you are in close combat. The Bosspole going from reroll LD to reroll on the Mob Rule chart is 99.99% a nerf.
Warbosses have no real role anymore. The lack of invulnerable saves means they cant go toe-to-toe with other CCHQ choices, and they are by no means a ranged choice. Their only real buff (formerly an army special rule!) is a once-per-game thing that, while nice, hardly justifies their cost. They gained nothing. They lost quite a bit. I guess giving em a bike and a claw theyre still our best bet for popping high AV, but with the loss of an attack through Attack Squig, they're inarguably worse at it if only by a little.
My feeling to. People are overstating the losses and ignoring how much better most things are.
One big issue when people complain about new books is that they didn't see what they wanted improved.
As far as the new mob rule, they still make a leadership roll, then they roll on the chart correct? The chart is a big improvement for everything other than the 20 - 30 boy mobs. The more elite orks, like nobs and flash gitz, never benefited from the mod rule (which was strange).
The only thing I wanted to see buffed was buggies, which were buffed. So this isn't a case of "I didnt get what I wanted." (And buggies are still a bad choice, but zoggit I will still field them.)
Yes, you roll leadership and then roll on the chart. The main issue is that you are exceedingly more like to fail leadership to begin with. Having a fall back chart is good and all, but Id rather just pass the frelling test. Small units almost never benefit from the chart, btw, because 50% of the chart requires there to be 10 models in the unit, which you almost certainly wont have for long when youre taking d6 S4 hits every time the chart saves your butt. Your own unit essentially breaks itself.
I'm still reeling a bit at the loss of invulnerable save for HQs. Is there a single army, other than Orks, that doesn't have that option? It's not exactly relevant to say that we should have one just because everyone else does, but there's a good reason why they have that option. Non-mega armoured Warbosses with power klaws don't seem like a good choice at all. And Nobs without cybork are wormfood.
Vineheart01 wrote: Does Zagstruk's hammer of wrath attack have its own rule, or is it saying instead of the normal hammer of wrath? if its instead of the normal, the chicken-kicker will almost never get that attack since you have to NOT use your jumppacks in the movement phase to get hammer of wrath in the assault phase (which is stupid....)
Unless you just use the rokkit pac twice and take that dangerous terrain test.
Did they change this rule and i missed it? it used to be if you used your jump/jet packs to move you couldnt use them to assault. Or did you mean the 2D6 run of suicidness?
streamdragon wrote: Lootas actually came down in cost, which would be awesome but for their sudden jump to HS. Id gladly pay the extra point to have them back in elites where they're not competing with half the codex.
Except that tank busts are at least as good as them at Elite.
Nobz also came down in (base) cost, but the Cybork nerf and the Exhaust Cloud nerf beyond offset the change.
Exhaust cloud is an improvement. Bikes will generally net at least a 5+ cover simply by existing on the average table. Being able to move up to a 3+ by going flat-out is much better than being 4+ all the time. In the game I played Monday, they were oppressively powerful.
I ran the math for Mob rule back on page 213 I think. It is almost entirely a nerf, unless you are in close combat. The Bosspole going from reroll LD to reroll on the Mob Rule chart is 99.99% a nerf.
The old mob rule wasn't even worth noting for most units last edition. Only ork boyz gained any benefit. By the time most things have forced a panic or break test, nobs and such were down to 7 or fewer models anyway, meaning they still tested on their regular LD7.
Warbosses have no real role anymore. The lack of invulnerable saves means they cant go toe-to-toe with other CCHQ choices, and they are by no means a ranged choice. Their only real buff (formerly an army special rule!) is a once-per-game thing that, while nice, hardly justifies their cost. They gained nothing. They lost quite a bit. I guess giving em a bike and a claw theyre still our best bet for popping high AV, but with the loss of an attack through Attack Squig, they're inarguably worse at it if only by a little.
They lost Cybork, which isn't a huge issue. They should always be in a unit with a pain boy, giving them a FNP save that is only ignored by S10. Similarly, they will pop 90% of the other characters in the game with a single successful hit. Unless you are running to tyrants or Lysander, the war boss is still most likely going to survive and win a toe to toe fight. And he comes in at only about 115 points in mega armor or on a bike. The reroll from the lucky stikk only improves the odds that all 4 of his attacks will hit and wound.
Yes, you roll leadership and then roll on the chart. The main issue is that you are exceedingly more like to fail leadership to begin with. Having a fall back chart is good and all, but Id rather just pass the frelling test. Small units almost never benefit from the chart, btw, because 50% of the chart requires there to be 10 models in the unit, which you almost certainly wont have for long when youre taking d6 S4 hits every time the chart saves your butt. Your own unit essentially breaks itself.
And 50% of the chart does help if there is a boss style character in the unit. Even taking those d6 S4 hits, boy units will lose on average 2 orks. Any unit with a save is likely to lose only 1. Rerolling X number of times will improve the odds of getting that 1 - 3. For a unit like flash gitz and nobs, they will be making it almost every time. Previously, they would have simply run.
Jambles wrote: I'm still reeling a bit at the loss of invulnerable save for HQs. Is there a single army, other than Orks, that doesn't have that option? It's not exactly relevant to say that we should have one just because everyone else does, but there's a good reason why they have that option. Non-mega armoured Warbosses with power klaws don't seem like a good choice at all. And Nobs without cybork are wormfood.
With the exception of the Swarmlord and Zoanthropes, Tyranids have no invul saves.
streamdragon wrote: Lootas actually came down in cost, which would be awesome but for their sudden jump to HS. Id gladly pay the extra point to have them back in elites where they're not competing with half the codex.
Nobz also came down in (base) cost, but the Cybork nerf and the Exhaust Cloud nerf beyond offset the change.
And "internal balance" is a bit of a red herring descriptor, to me. The new Nid book had better internal balance at the cost of neutering good choices rather than buffing bad or lacking choices. I dont see the Ork book doing much different bar a few units (like Tankbustas who inarguably got buffed).
There are numerous "Real" problems with this book.
I ran the math for Mob rule back on page 213 I think. It is almost entirely a nerf, unless you are in close combat. The Bosspole going from reroll LD to reroll on the Mob Rule chart is 99.99% a nerf.
Warbosses have no real role anymore. The lack of invulnerable saves means they cant go toe-to-toe with other CCHQ choices, and they are by no means a ranged choice. Their only real buff (formerly an army special rule!) is a once-per-game thing that, while nice, hardly justifies their cost. They gained nothing. They lost quite a bit. I guess giving em a bike and a claw theyre still our best bet for popping high AV, but with the loss of an attack through Attack Squig, they're inarguably worse at it if only by a little.
My feeling to. People are overstating the losses and ignoring how much better most things are.
One big issue when people complain about new books is that they didn't see what they wanted improved.
As far as the new mob rule, they still make a leadership roll, then they roll on the chart correct? The chart is a big improvement for everything other than the 20 - 30 boy mobs. The more elite orks, like nobs and flash gitz, never benefited from the mod rule (which was strange).
The only thing I wanted to see buffed was buggies, which were buffed. So this isn't a case of "I didnt get what I wanted." (And buggies are still a bad choice, but zoggit I will still field them.)
Yes, you roll leadership and then roll on the chart. The main issue is that you are exceedingly more like to fail leadership to begin with. Having a fall back chart is good and all, but Id rather just pass the frelling test. Small units almost never benefit from the chart, btw, because 50% of the chart requires there to be 10 models in the unit, which you almost certainly wont have for long when youre taking d6 S4 hits every time the chart saves your butt. Your own unit essentially breaks itself.
not 50%
40% requires 10 models
40% requires a leader
20% Bull
Except that tank busts are at least as good as them at Elite.
Exhaust cloud is an improvement. Bikes will generally net at least a 5+ cover simply by existing on the average table. Being able to move up to a 3+ by going flat-out is much better than being 4+ all the time. In the game I played Monday, they were oppressively powerful.
The old mob rule wasn't even worth noting for most units last edition. Only ork boyz gained any benefit. By the time most things have forced a panic or break test, nobs and such were down to 7 or fewer models anyway, meaning they still tested on their regular LD7.
They lost Cybork, which isn't a huge issue. They should always be in a unit with a pain boy, giving them a FNP save that is only ignored by S10. Similarly, they will pop 90% of the other characters in the game with a single successful hit. Unless you are running to tyrants or Lysander, the war boss is still most likely going to survive and win a toe to toe fight. And he comes in at only about 115 points in mega armor or on a bike. The reroll from the lucky stikk only improves the odds that all 4 of his attacks will hit and wound.
And 50% of the chart does help if there is a boss style character in the unit. Even taking those d6 S4 hits, boy units will lose on average 2 orks. Any unit with a save is likely to lose only 1. Rerolling X number of times will improve the odds of getting that 1 - 3. For a unit like flash gitz and nobs, they will be making it almost every time. Previously, they would have simply run.
1. Tankbustas are good, true. That doesnt make HS not the most crowded slot in the book though. (HQ being the second.)
2. Exhaust cloud is a nerf. How many turns a game are you turboboosting? Not as many as youre not, so the save going down is a loss. Oppresively powerful? You're full of squig.
3. Losing our only source of invulnerable save is not a big deal? You're serious? Please tell me you're not serious?
4. Correction: 2/6 of the chart depends on a character. Who still causes d6 hits to your unit. Your 15 man Tankbusta unit is going to find themselves without half the table real damn quick. The other 1/6 requires you to be in CC. And seriously, there's math that basically shows how wrong you are. The old Bosspole was immeasureably better, because rerolling a LD check gave even your LD7 unit about an 80% chance of passing at any time.
With the exception of the Swarmlord and Zoanthropes, Tyranids have no invul saves.
Fair enough.
PhillyT wrote: Being able to get FNP that is almost never removable is a decent trade off. It isn't THAT big a deal.
It's a lot more expensive than the cybork save - and besides, we had the same feel no pain before to stack with the save. It's definitely a nerf, but not a big deal, sure. It was only a 5+ save, but it was so very worth it. The Nobs will feel the loss a lot more than the Warboss, to be sure. If the new cybork stacked with painboy that would be cool, but I guess a 4+ feel no pain is way overpowered.
The advantage now is that you can give the Warboss that FNP wherever he goes. A big unit of 5+ FNP 'eavy Ork boys in a battlewagon led by a Warboss sounds pretty tough.
Honestly I'm pretty excited about throwing the mad doc in with a unit of meganobz, and giving them all 5+ FNP, Fearless, and Rampage. So many PK attacks....
greggles wrote: Honestly I'm pretty excited about throwing the mad doc in with a unit of meganobz, and giving them all 5+ FNP, Fearless, and Rampage. So many PK attacks....
The one thing that shows we need that invul on the warboss specifically is that you now are obligated to put him in MA or on a bike to make him not just get wounds winged off him by Space Marine Sargeants and things like that. We have 0 way to resist any attack that is instant death because of its own rule (Fabius Bile, Huskblade from DE) because you are not allowed to take FNP against those. So now we have literally no defense against that. Let alone Vindicators and other S 10 large blasts.
As for bikes you have to jink to get that 3+ which means your shooting is worse in the next turn. That isn't huge though it still matters in the long run. I play against a lot of Tau and marker lights now have become the bane of our bikers existance! Because we have no invul and will just get shredded by plasma suits and all kinds of garbage like that.
I personally think there is quite a bit of good stuff in the codex though some of the nerfs are -huge- to the point that you are obligated to do certain things to try and fill the void. Ex. MA Warboss with Da Lucky Stikk
And 50% of the chart does help if there is a boss style character in the unit. Even taking those d6 S4 hits, boy units will lose on average 2 orks. Any unit with a save is likely to lose only 1. Rerolling X number of times will improve the odds of getting that 1 - 3. For a unit like flash gitz and nobs, they will be making it almost every time. Previously, they would have simply run.
Doesn't the BRB say that you can't reroll anything more than once? Wouldn't that apply to rolls on the mob rule chart?
And 50% of the chart does help if there is a boss style character in the unit. Even taking those d6 S4 hits, boy units will lose on average 2 orks. Any unit with a save is likely to lose only 1. Rerolling X number of times will improve the odds of getting that 1 - 3. For a unit like flash gitz and nobs, they will be making it almost every time. Previously, they would have simply run.
Doesn't the BRB say that you can't reroll anything more than once? Wouldn't that apply to rolls on the mob rule chart?
Yep unless they changed it in 7th you can only re-roll something once.
I went against CSM yesterday using the new rules and i only lost 18 boys, 1 meganob and 3 warbikers at 2000pts, kff is our saving grace and FNP on the warbikers was nice as i turboboosted first turn, big trakks are the bested transport per points as it got the meganobs in CC turn 2, mob rule barely affected me the entire game
TableTopJosh wrote: Cna anyone share the new prices for warbikers and buggies? please and thank you
Warbikes are 18 pts base. They basically remained as before, with 4+ save and the same gun. Unit size is 3-15. May purchase a Nob for +10 pts who can get PK/BC or Bosspole.
Buggies come at 25 pts. base. They may exchange the Twin Big Shootas for Twin Rokkits for free. Unit sizes is 1-5, they get outflank, and the Skorcha upgrade is +5 pts I think, as well as the trakk upgrade.
Perfect Organism wrote: Question for Mel or anyone else who has the codex: is the Ork Warband formation an absolutely fixed set of units or does it have some 'wiggle room'?
Like, is it six units of boys, one warboss, one mek, one unit of nobs, one unit of gretchin and that's it, or can you add more units if you like?
its fixed as to what units you have to take, its flexible in unit sizes and equipment.
I just a phone call letting me know that the LGS will have my copy of the Ork Codex Friday.
Which is ironic, since I asked someone else to order for me, since he got a discount that I do not.
Reposting collection on Ork Rumors in spoilers below, because people seem unaware of it, or the link to it in Melcavuk's and mine Sigs.
Spoiler:
COLLECTED LEAKED INFO
ARMY-WIDE RULES 'Ere We Go lets you re-roll 1 charge die.
Waaagh! allows all units with 'Ere We Go to run and and charge in the same turn.
WARBAND FORMATION You have to take at least 60 boyz (6 units) and a unit of Gretchin. A WAAAGH! can be called every turn after the first. This formation gives Hammer of Wrath to every unit over 10 models that has 'Ere we go, providing they roll over 10 for charge range.
60+ Boyz that can run AND charge in the same turn, every turn after the first. With 'Ere we go they get to reroll one charge die. The wording, is roll over 10, not charge over 10. "it successfully charges an enemy unit and the dice rolled for its charge range is 10 or more (before modifiers)".
D6 Warlord Trait 1 Prophet of the Waaagh!:Mork (or possibly Gork) has chosen this Warlord for greatness, and every Ork under his command knows it.
The Warlord gains the Waaagh! special rule. If the Warlord already has the Waaagh! special rule then, in addition to the usual effects, all friendly models with the ’Ere We Go! special rule gain the Fearless special rule when he calls a Waaagh!, until the start of their next turn.
2 Bellowing Tyrant: This Warlord is an unholy terror, a roaring lunatic whose every (very loud) word is law.
The Warlord, and all friendly units with the Orks Faction within 12" of him, re-roll failed Morale checks and Pinning tests.
3 Like a Thunderbolt!:This Warlord is a master of the all-out, no-holds-barred, headlong charge into battle.
The Warlord, and all friendly units with the Orks Faction within 12" of him, can re-roll all the dice when determining Run moves or charge range.
4 Brutal but Kunnin’: This Warlord has a sneaky streak a mile wide and knows just where to hit his foes.
The Warlord can re-roll one failed To Hit or To Wound roll each turn.
5 Kunnin’ but Brutal: The Warlord knows when to roll with a punch, and can shrug off the hardest blows.
The Warlord can re-roll one failed armour or invulnerable saving throw each turn.
6 Might is Right: Made of muscle and aggression, this Warlord is the embodiment of the Orks’ warlike nature.
The Warlord receives +1 to the Strength characteristic on his profile.
Power of the Waaagh! Primaris power is Frazzle (Blast witchfire). 1WC
'Eadbanger is now a focussed witchfire. 1WC
Warpath is a self blessing 1WC
Da jump is what used to be 'ere we go 1WC
Killbolt is a beam attack. 2WC 18" S10 AP2 Beam
Power vomit is a template witchfire. 2WC S7 AP2 Template
Da Krunch is a barrage witchfire. 2WC S2d6 Large Blast, roll over 10 hit everything twice
Mob rule is replaced by the D6 roll on Mob Chart
Mob Chart D6 Result
1 Born to Fight: Orks love fighting, and the prospect of a good punch-up will sometimes stop them from running off
If the unit is locked in combat, it passes the Morale check or Pinning test. If the unit is not locked in combat, it fails.
2-3 Breaking Heads:The mob’s leader knocks a few heads together until the ladz settle down and get back in the fight.
If the unit includes one or more Ork characters (including Independent Characters), it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test.
4-6 Squabble:A brawl breaks out as the Orks decide what to do. When the dust settles, nobody can remember what the trouble was about in the first place.
If the unit has 10 or more models, it suffers D6 Strength 4 AP- hits, and is then treated as if it had passed the Morale check or Pinning test. The hits are Randomly Allocated. If the unit has fewer than 10 models, it fails the Morale check or Pinning test.
Ork Characters cannot take wounds from Breaking Eads, so if you have a unit comprised of Ork characters they automatically pass when rolling this results.
Boss Pole - Each time a unit that includes at least one model with a Bosspole rolls on the Mob Rule table, you may choose to re-roll any result other than a Breaking Heads result. You must accept the result of the re-rollt.
Ork Tactical Objectives Shoot an enemy unit off the board,
Kill the enemy warlord in a challenge with your warboss,
Destroy an enemy unit in your assault phase (more units gone, more points)
Turbo boost 3 vehicles (or bike units)
Secure a random objective (roll a D6),
Charge more than 10 inches.
Relics:Gifts of Gork and Mork "Only one of each of the following artefacts may be chosen per army – there is only one of each of these items in the galaxy" Da Dead Shiny Shoota 6 shots twinlinked shoota, rolls of 1 hit one of your own units
Da Finkin’ Kap gives your warlord an additional trait from the strategic list.
Da Fixer Upperz repair vehicles on 3+ (hull points, weapon destroyed or immobilised).
Da Lucky Stikk Can choose to reroll failed hit, wound or saving throws, if 3 of these rerolls fail in a single turn the model is removed 25 pts
Headwoppa’s Killchoppa is a +2 str, AP5, two handed, rending choppa that beheads on a roll of 6 (insta death).
Warboss Gazbag’s Blitzbike Bike, Assault 3, AP 3, Str 6 twinlinked shots.
Zagstruk Bellowing Tyrant, Ld 8, Slugga, choppa, eavy, stikkbombs, cybork, rokkit pack. 1 Less Wound, 1 Less Toughness than a Warboss. Hammer of wrath is str 8 AP2. Cant assault from deepstrike
Grotsnik Brutal but Kunnin .Gives fearless, rampage and FNP MekHQ, 1 per actual HQ bought, has Boy statline, must be put into an artillery or infantry unit before start of game. can take Grot Oiler, Kombi Shootas, Rokkit Launcha, Kustom Mega Blasta, Kustom Mega Slugga, Twinlinked Shoota, Kill Saw
Big Mek does not change FoC "A Big Mek may take items from the Mek Weapons, Melee Weapons, Runts & Squigs, Orky Know-wots and/or Gifts of Gork and Mork lists."
Painboy nob stats, urty/slugga. Confers FNP, is IC, can take a bike, no 'Eavy Armor
Weirdboy. gain a Warp Charge point if there are 10 or more models with the 'ere we go rule (Pretty much any Ork from what I've seen) in 12" but has to take a psychic save or take a hit. Can be upgraded to Psyker level 2. Power of the Waaagh! and Daemonlogy disciplines.
Badrukk is a HQ, Cunning but Brutal , (3+, 5++, str 7 AP2 assault 3 gun) , Badrukk has the rules listed for Da Rippa, but it is not listed in his wargear, LD9
Snikrot is not HQ, Snikkrot an elite (doesnt take a slot if taken with Kommandos) (shrouded on arrival, you pick an edge to outflank dont roll), causes fear.
Warboss does not change FoC, klaw and big choppa same cost. Boss pole, Same statline, Slugga, Choppa, Stikkbombs. Can take 'eavy armour, mega armour, TL shoota and PK. May select items from: Ranged weapons list, Melee weapons list, Runts&Squigs list, Orky...
No Wazdakka
No Zogwort.
Ghazkul Same cost, is eternal warrior. His warlord trait, Prophet of the Waaagh, makes boyz within 12 inches fearless in a waaagh. Only one waaagh per game, LOW now, can take runts/squigs, stats look unchaged
A Big Mek with mega armour can take one of the following
- Tellyport blasta Tellyporta blasta is the back mouned thing I've been describing and seems... uh, situational at best? Very short range weapon but causes instant death on a 6 wound. Rolling a 6 on AP causes a penetrating hit regardless of AV.
- Kustom force field
- Shock attack gun roll of double 6 is vortex!!!
- KFF can be combined with mega armour and bikes, Shock attack gun seems to be combinable with bikes.
- Git finda on SAG
None of the rumored army wide FNP at all
Orks kept furious charge, are susceptible to fear now
Meganobz still bulky and use 2 spots in transport
Kommandos got move through cover, stealth and infiltrate, no point hike
Ork boys Slugga boy is 6, Shoota boy is 7. Both come with stikkbombs as standard.
Lootas Heavy Support and cheaper (5 points less per squad)
Deffkoptaz 30 Points base, gun swaps are free, still a jetbike.
Buggies 25 points base, gun swap is free, up to 5, can outflank, don't get new weapons, do get Grot Riggers at 10 points.
Zzap Gun 2D6, gets hot on a 1-3 if you roll 11 or 12
Kannons unchanged
Lobbas unchanged
Stompa in as super heavy
Battle Wagon up 20 points.
Kustom Mega Slugga is a thing.
Grot riggers don't just work for IWND on 'nauts, any vehicle that has them, but cost per vehicle seems to differ. 20 to put them on a 'naut. BW don't seem to have the option.
Killkannon 24 inch, STR7 ap3, large blast, Ordinance, still lowers transport on BW
Attack squig nerfed to 1 reroll in melee per turn
Ramshackle got clobbered.. 6+ save when you take a pen, if successful downgrade to glance
Planks Rules a little complicated. If you get out of open topped and declare a charge, add 2 to the charge range
Deffrolla gains AP4 and loses half the hits
ELITE
Nobz- 18 pts. Bikes in the Nob unit are +27 point upgrade. Nob Bikers are the same points as before (but nobs themselves cheaper), Eavy Armour got a point cheaper on the Nobz.
Manz- Kill saw is 10 points for the pair for mega nobz, replaces both weapons.
Waagh banner is 20 pts.
Trukk or Battlewagon for the Mega Nobz. 40 pts/model.
Tankbustas Elite, 65 pts. 2 pts/model cheaper. melta bombs, tank hunter, glory hogs- 2 vps for first blood on a tank, Tankhammer- str 8 AP3, unwieldy. 2 pt decrease/model. Bomb squig- Wargear, str 8 AP 4 can buy up to 3, works same as before, no risk to own unit. No longer have to shoot at nearest tank.
Tank Bustas Big Nob has access to Melee weapon list but cant actually take anything, Reasoning: Big Nob in Tank Busta unit is armed with Rokkit Launcha, Stick bombz, Tankbusta Bombz.
Melee weapon list: "A Model can replace their MELEE weapon with one of the following" So yes they can access the list, but have nothing to exchange to get a weapon
Burnas can take dedicated trukks , 75 pts. Unchanged.
Kommandos- Price drop. move through cover, stealth and infiltrate, stikkbombs, no shootas. Can take 2 burnas as one of their special weapons, however they can only take 2 in a mob. May include Snikkrot (doesnt take a slot if taken with Kommandos otherwise HQ) (shrouded on arrival, you pick an edge to outflank dont roll) Snikrot causes fear.
TROOPS
Ork boyz – 6 pts. +1 pt each for shootas. Units can pay for ‘eavy no longer restricted to 1 per army. One in 10 can take special weapon (Same but rokkit cheaper than it used to be). One model may be a Nob, may select from Ranged or Melee weapons list.
Gretchin- Runtherd comes with Grabba stick, can buy squig hound. If the unit breaks the hound causes D3 str 3 hits on the unit, and can then reroll the morale test.
Grot prod can exchange its attacks for a single double strength attack. AP -
Grabba reduces the enemies attacks by one
No special rules, at all
FAST
Stormboyz can NOT assault flyers. Jump Infantry, can run 2D6 instead of one but take dangerous terrain tests doing so. No longer blow themselves up.
Deffkoptas- 30 pts each, 5 pt reduction. both its gun changes are now free. Other points stay the same
Buggies- 25 points, 5 pt reduction, up to 5, outflank. Skorcha same cost as before, trakk is a 5 point upgrade.
Warbikers- 18 pts, 7 pt reduction, no exhaust save, get +1 cover if they turbo boost now, otherwise no improved cover at all.
Blitza bombas- maxed out burna bommer now costs 180pts with red paint job. A maxed out blitza-Bommer cost 140pts with red paint job.
Dakka jet - guns now only fire one more shot than normal on a Waaagh, not everything twice.
Blitza Bombs: 2D6, on a 2 you crash, 3 you and your target take a str 9 AP 2, otherwise you hit, with 12 meaning you can shoot your guns aswell. (str 7 AP2, large blast armour bane, one use only).
Burna Bombsstr 5 AP4 large blast ignore cover. Skorcha Missiles str 5 AP4 small blast ignores cover.
HEAVY
Looted wagon- (found in WD not codex). 37 pts, 2 pt increase. 3 weapon upgrades all 5 pts each. Killkannon 30 pts.
Kans come in 6 packs, NO twin guns, NO Troop choice option, more expensive. 25% more expensive for the big shoota variant. , have special morale rule, test for panic when 25% have died, bouns for numbers and Deff Dread nearby, shaken if they fail.
Deff Dread- 80 Points, 5 pt increase, comes with 2 big shootas, rokkits are a free exchange. KMB are +5 point Exchange. Riggers are 10 points confer IWND. For the price of an old Deff Dread with 2 x Rokkits you can get a new Deff Dred with 2 x Kustom Mega Blastas and Grot Riggers. Deff Dreads can NOT be taken in squadrons
Flash gitz-
Gorka/Morkanaughts NOT assault vehicles, and have no options to become one.
Dedicated Transports
Trukk- 30 points. 5 pt reduction. Ramshackle- changed, now when you take a penetrating hit roll a D6, on a 6 that hit is now downgraded to a glancing hit. Dedicated transports available for burnas and tank bustas now.
Wreckin ball is a 3 inch range str 9 ap 4 D3 weapon.
Boarding planks- +2" on the charge the turn you disembark from an open topped vehicle with a plank
Deff Rolla- 10 pts. D3 instead of D6 hits now AP 4.
Red paint Job- +1 inch to flat out moves.
Lords Of War
WARGEAR Melee Weapons
Klaw- unchanged.
Killsaws armour bane. Meks and Mega Nobz can take Killsaws (not buzz saws), which are armour bane power klaws. Normal nobz, and nobz in units do not have access to these. Points cost varies (mega nobz pay 10 points to exchange both weapons for a pair of killsaws, Meks pay 20 to turn their choppas into a normal kill saw
Choppas- are just CCW.
big choppas- +2 strAP 5.
Ranged Weapons twinlinked shootas and kombis
Runts & Squigs surgical grot- reroll fnp ammo runt- reroll shooting to hit
attack squig- reroll cc to hit
grot oiler-
Orky Know-wots Bike- Painboy's and Warbosses bike is 25 pts, a nob's bike is 27 pts.
Cybork- fnp 6+
Gitfinda- BS 3 if stationary.
Waaagh! Banner All models in a unit add +1 to the Weapon Skill characteristic on their profile.
Zapp gun- 2D6, gets hot on a 1-3 if you roll 11 or 12
KFF- price hasnt changed. KFF is 5++ if embarked than vehicle gets this INSTEAD, explicitly just shooting. KFF can be combined with mega armour and bikes.
Shock attack gun- seems to be combinable with bikes. Double 6 is vortex.
Teleporta Blasta- small blast str 8 ap2, on a 6 its insta death or insta pen.
Grot riggas- IWND (5 points on Kans, 10 on dreds)
Weapons arent exchanged for many of the options on characters, the warboss for example reads "May take items from the Ranged Weapons, Melee Weapons, Runts & Squigs, Orky Know-wots and/or Gifts of Gork and Mork list"
There are other bits that do exchange weapons (taking mega armour for example). Relics are one of each per army (but can take multiple different ones)
Cheap IWND on vehicles (5 points on Kans, 10 on dreds)
Warboss/Bigmek Mega Armor Kit is a thing
Looted Wagons exclusive to White Dwarf
Big meks (non mega armour) with KFF cant take any non-relic ranged weapons. Reasoning:
KFF Replaces Slugga
Mek Weapons says "A model can replace their RANGED weapon with one of the following"
So no KMB or KMS on a non mega Big Mek
A few notable groups from Da Red Waaaagh:
Skullcrakka Boyz - these Skull-Nobz covered in scars and trophies from their many victories
Wasteland Warbikerz
Splitgrin Dakkajets
Baddfrags Looted Wagons
Wingnutz Flyboyz
Big Red da Warphead
Goffboss Drogg
Mogroks Big Gunz
It's probably been said at some point, but is it correct I cannot upgrade a nob in a nob unit to a painboy anymore? As in, if I wan't a painboy for them I HAVE to spend an HQ spot..?
Cause that would be zoggin' dumb if you ask me
Melcavuk wrote: Yeah, if you want a painboy, he takes a HQ, isnt available anywhere else in a list.
Thank you
That's a slight problem to me, especially when you consider the fact I cannot get an invulnerable save for my Warboss either... I suppose this is why they "give" us three HQ spots, but limiting the painboy to HQ makes it a necessity more than anything Considering I want a reasonable save for both my Warboss and my nobz plus a Shokk Attack Gun Big Mek somewhere in the army, it really forces me to stick the Warboss in the battlewagon with the nobz. And that is not the wagon he is supposed to be in
Ork FoC is pointless. Rather take 4 HQs and 4 troops with normal FoC requirements and be able to field 6 elite/fa/heavy.
If the Ork FoC increased elite/fa/heavy by 1 as well, it would be very much appreciated and well received by us orkies. As it is, since our troops are kinda pointless unless you field so many it makes the game take FOREVER (and even worse now with mob rule chart) that the 9 troops really does not help.
Vineheart01 wrote: Ork FoC is pointless. Rather take 4 HQs and 4 troops with normal FoC requirements and be able to field 6 elite/fa/heavy.
If the Ork FoC increased elite/fa/heavy by 1 as well, it would be very much appreciated and well received by us orkies. As it is, since our troops are kinda pointless unless you field so many it makes the game take FOREVER (and even worse now with mob rule chart) that the 9 troops really does not help.
Unless you're playing at an event that limits the number of CAD you can have. Which I believe Nova/BAO are doing.
Is there any detail on how Waaagh! interacts with bike units? Does it literally just say 'can charge even if they ran in the movement phase' or something like that with no mention of turbo-boosting?
Vineheart01 wrote: Ork FoC is pointless. Rather take 4 HQs and 4 troops with normal FoC requirements and be able to field 6 elite/fa/heavy.
If the Ork FoC increased elite/fa/heavy by 1 as well, it would be very much appreciated and well received by us orkies. As it is, since our troops are kinda pointless unless you field so many it makes the game take FOREVER (and even worse now with mob rule chart) that the 9 troops really does not help.
Unless you're playing at an event that limits the number of CAD you can have. Which I believe Nova/BAO are doing.
But playing at 'events' isn't the normal way of this game, so shouldn't be an issue for the average gamer.
Except that tank busts are at least as good as them at Elite.
Exhaust cloud is an improvement. Bikes will generally net at least a 5+ cover simply by existing on the average table. Being able to move up to a 3+ by going flat-out is much better than being 4+ all the time. In the game I played Monday, they were oppressively powerful.
The old mob rule wasn't even worth noting for most units last edition. Only ork boyz gained any benefit. By the time most things have forced a panic or break test, nobs and such were down to 7 or fewer models anyway, meaning they still tested on their regular LD7.
They lost Cybork, which isn't a huge issue. They should always be in a unit with a pain boy, giving them a FNP save that is only ignored by S10. Similarly, they will pop 90% of the other characters in the game with a single successful hit. Unless you are running to tyrants or Lysander, the war boss is still most likely going to survive and win a toe to toe fight. And he comes in at only about 115 points in mega armor or on a bike. The reroll from the lucky stikk only improves the odds that all 4 of his attacks will hit and wound.
And 50% of the chart does help if there is a boss style character in the unit. Even taking those d6 S4 hits, boy units will lose on average 2 orks. Any unit with a save is likely to lose only 1. Rerolling X number of times will improve the odds of getting that 1 - 3. For a unit like flash gitz and nobs, they will be making it almost every time. Previously, they would have simply run.
1. Tankbustas are good, true. That doesnt make HS not the most crowded slot in the book though. (HQ being the second.)
It is the most crowded in Space Marines. It is the most crowded in Astra. Why does that matter? If you want lootas, take lootas. It isn't that hard to get a second FOC and if you need more than 6 heavies, that is a difficult issue to resolve.
2. Exhaust cloud is a nerf. How many turns a game are you turboboosting? Not as many as youre not, so the save going down is a loss. Oppresively powerful? You're full of squig.
Exhaust isn't a nerf, it is a sideways move. It is better when turbo boosting and worse when not. As far as how often you should be turbo boosting, every turn that you aren't about to charge. Take a unit of 8 nobs and do the math. A 3+ right up until the turn they charge is brutally good.
3. Losing our only source of invulnerable save is not a big deal? You're serious? Please tell me you're not serious?
That and the change in the KFF are the two biggest nerds. They are both far outweighed by the improvements.
4. Correction: 2/6 of the chart depends on a character. Who still causes d6 hits to your unit. Your 15 man Tankbusta unit is going to find themselves without half the table real damn quick. The other 1/6 requires you to be in CC. And seriously, there's math that basically shows how wrong you are. The old Bosspole was immeasureably better, because rerolling a LD check gave even your LD7 unit about an 80% chance of passing at any time.
Take a second to figure that out. If a 15 man squad of tankbustas gets to the point where they lose half the table, then they wouldn't have had any benefit under the old mob rule either. Below 10 they lose fearless. Now, under the current system, they take their leadership test, then roll on the chart, with a 50% chance of passing, then a reroll if you have a boss pole. For units like tankbustas or nobs, the new table is much better. At least it does something.
I dont play at events. Never have that much time to dedicate at once without taking days off and forget that since i know its nothing but a rule-bashing competition not a game. Lot of friends DO play at events and the way they complain of coming across "that guy" so many times im surprised they keep going back (theres like 4-5 around me, forget the names of most of them but one is the Bug Eater in Omaha, NE). Most of the players at my FLGS are in the same boat as me, only about 1/3 of us do events (out of ~12 people that play).
And i actually was just wondering that turbo-boost and charge comment myself. If thats true, oooo man our bikers will be impossible to out run lol.
EDIT: Exhaust cloud was a nerf. Turn 1 is the only turn i ever turbo-boosted my nobz...period...after that they were always able to either charge or utterly destroy something with their dakka just outside charge range. 8 nobz is 24 S5 twinlinked shots. Thats quite a bit of dakka youre not using to get a +1 cover in a world of ignores cover glory. They are simply too strong of a unit to not shoot and/or charge instead of getting that +1 cover. To be fair though, i think if they had it +1 cover if i moved at all would be a little ridiculous lol.
Did anyone else knotice but the Looted Wagons "Unit Composition" is 1 Gorkanaut. Wooo 37 point Gorkanaut with Deff rolla for 10 points. I'm in.
JK aside anyone else get the impression that the Looted Wagon may have been a rush job by GW. I'm not complaining, if it was proves they may actually listen to fans but it really should have been in the dex.
Vineheart01 wrote: Exhaust cloud was a nerf. Turn 1 is the only turn i ever turbo-boosted my nobz...period...after that they were always able to either charge or utterly destroy something with their dakka just outside charge range. 8 nobz is 24 S5 twinlinked shots. Thats quite a bit of dakka youre not using to get a +1 cover in a world of ignores cover glory. They are simply too strong of a unit to not shoot and/or charge instead of getting that +1 cover.
To be fair though, i think if they had it +1 cover if i moved at all would be a little ridiculous lol.
Thats it though, you are turbo boosting first turn, charging second and subsequent. 8 nobs aren't setting the world on fire with dakkaguns. They are a nice addition, no doubt, but if you think you will be eating enough shots to get through your AS4+ T5 and FNP 5+, then turboboost is a good alternative. You still get to shoot on turn 2 after the turbo boost and gain the benefit of that 3+ on the opponents turn. It isn't much of a change, particularly since the unit will often be getting a 5+ cover anyway (cover is ubiquitous).
PhillyT wrote: Take a second to figure that out. If a 15 man squad of tankbustas gets to the point where they lose half the table, then they wouldn't have had any benefit under the old mob rule either. Below 10 they lose fearless. Now, under the current system, they take their leadership test, then roll on the chart, with a 50% chance of passing, then a reroll if you have a boss pole. For units like tankbustas or nobs, the new table is much better. At least it does something.
I don't think you are understanding his argument. He literally ran all the numbers and even put them into a nice chart for us.
The new mob rule is still a nerf for small units because the nerf to the bosspole is greater than any possible benefit one could get from the new mob rule table. Meaning, small squad are more likely to run in 7th than they were with the 4th Ed codex.
It's a pretty huge change in cc tho..they lost half of their saves vs power weapons and all of their saves vs instant death. Nobz are gone as a strong unit
TableTopJosh wrote: So a 15 squad of bikers with nob and pk is 305, i wonder how much a PB on a bike and a warboss with pk on a bike is in the new codex.
Yeah, it is like Warbikers got 'Buy 10, get 5 free!'.
TableTopJosh wrote: So a 15 squad of bikers with nob and pk is 305, i wonder how much a PB on a bike and a warboss with pk on a bike is in the new codex.
The warbosses and big meks bikes dropped to 25 points (from 40).
TableTopJosh wrote: So a 15 squad of bikers with nob and pk is 305, i wonder how much a PB on a bike and a warboss with pk on a bike is in the new codex.
PhillyT wrote: Take a second to figure that out. If a 15 man squad of tankbustas gets to the point where they lose half the table, then they wouldn't have had any benefit under the old mob rule either. Below 10 they lose fearless. Now, under the current system, they take their leadership test, then roll on the chart, with a 50% chance of passing, then a reroll if you have a boss pole. For units like tankbustas or nobs, the new table is much better. At least it does something.
I don't think you are understanding his argument. He literally ran all the numbers and even put them into a nice chart for us.
The new mob rule is still a nerf for small units because the nerf to the bosspole is greater than any possible benefit one could get from the new mob rule table. Meaning, small squad are more likely to run in 7th than they were with the 4th Ed codex.
Except that it isn't. A unit of elite models, like nobs, flashgitz, and tankbustas, are still more likely to pass the test by 6% under his calculation. Most of the time, when they need to take the test, they will be passing 89% of the time versus 83% under the old rule (LD7, nob, boss pole). The rest of the results are statistically similar and don't have much of an impact on the over all results.
Left uncalculated were the rare times they lose combat. Rolling on the chart eliminates any deficit that might have been accumulated since they simply pass. No matter how much you lose by, you have a 50% of just passing and another try after.
It is the most crowded in Space Marines. It is the most crowded in Astra. Why does that matter? If you want lootas, take lootas. It isn't that hard to get a second FOC and if you need more than 6 heavies, that is a difficult issue to resolve.
Exhaust isn't a nerf, it is a sideways move. It is better when turbo boosting and worse when not. As far as how often you should be turbo boosting, every turn that you aren't about to charge. Take a unit of 8 nobs and do the math. A 3+ right up until the turn they charge is brutally good.
That and the change in the KFF are the two biggest nerds. They are both far outweighed by the improvements.
Take a second to figure that out. If a 15 man squad of tankbustas gets to the point where they lose half the table, then they wouldn't have had any benefit under the old mob rule either. Below 10 they lose fearless. Now, under the current system, they take their leadership test, then roll on the chart, with a 50% chance of passing, then a reroll if you have a boss pole. For units like tankbustas or nobs, the new table is much better. At least it does something.
1. My point was that the 1 PPM drop wasn't enough to offset the nerf of moving to heavy support. Taking multiple FOCs isn't an issue, except in any tournament that bans multiple FOCS; having said that I admit I don't play in tournaments, but multiple FOCs still come with their own costs. Lots of costs to drop 1 PPM with no other discernable buff. (not that lootas really needed any.)
2. I'm not sure how "lost it except in specific circumstances" isn't a nerf. "You can still jink!" I didn't need to jink, what did I gain by now having to jink? Worse shooting. That's not a buff. Better turbo boosting is hardly enough of a justification.
3. "Two biggest nerfs" now, "not a big deal" before. It is a big deal, and it is a big nerf. Invulnerable saves are important, no mandatory, for keeping characters alive. We more than most armies are dependant on characters, since 2/3 of our new "DON'T RUN AWAY" rule depends on a character being there. Not having those saves further complicates an already serious nerf.
4. I have. It shows pretty clearly that without adding a character to your unit of Tankbustas, the new mob rule is no sort of benefit, and is in fact a nerf. Adding a character to your unit? You would have been better off with both the old version of Mob Rule and Bosspole.
Above 10 models (11+) and you used to be Fearless instead of counting on taking d6 S4 hits to pass checks.
Under 10 models but above your best LD, you benefitted from increased LD and a reroll from the bosspole if around.
Under 10 models and below your best LD, with no bosspole, you in exactly the same boat you used to be in, except for ONE single specific circumstance: In close combat you can pass mob rule on a '1'. If you are not in close combat, the new mob rule does nothing for you.
Kirasu wrote: It's a pretty huge change in cc tho..they lost half of their saves vs power weapons and all of their saves vs instant death. Nobz are gone as a strong unit
Even if they hadn't lost cybork bodies, (new) normal bikers seem to do better at the (old) nob bikers' role now. 50 points for 2 wounds with a 5+ invulnerable or 54 points for 3 wounds without an invulnerable, but with triple the firepower and more than twice as many attacks?
Traditional build:
Warboss (Bike, Power Klaw, Cybork Body) - 130
1 Nob with Power Klaw, CB and Bike - 75
2 Nobs with CB & Bikes - 100
1 Painboy with CB & Bike - 80
TOTAL: 385 points
New Build:
Warboss (Bike, Power Klaw) - 110
1 Painboy with bike - 75
1 Warbiker Nob with power klaw - 53
8 Warbikers - 144
TOTAL: 382
That's almost 50% more wounds and more than twice the firepower for the loss of an invulnerable save. The unit wrecks vehicles and monsters just as well as it did before and is much better at cutting through light infantry.
Exhaust isn't a nerf, it is a sideways move. It is better when turbo boosting and worse when not. As far as how often you should be turbo boosting, every turn that you aren't about to charge. Take a unit of 8 nobs and do the math. A 3+ right up until the turn they charge is brutally good.
No, its a massive kick in the nuts.
You don't buy Warbikes to assault with them, they're dakka machines and in CC, they're slightly better than slugga boys for 3x the cost.
Exhaust isn't a nerf, it is a sideways move. It is better when turbo boosting and worse when not. As far as how often you should be turbo boosting, every turn that you aren't about to charge. Take a unit of 8 nobs and do the math. A 3+ right up until the turn they charge is brutally good.
No, its a massive kick in the nuts.
You don't buy Warbikes to assault with them, they're dakka machines and in CC, they're slightly better than slugga boys for 3x the cost.
Unless you want to change the way you approach things and look at them as a ton of ablative wounds for your warbosses and painboy.
Exhaust isn't a nerf, it is a sideways move. It is better when turbo boosting and worse when not. As far as how often you should be turbo boosting, every turn that you aren't about to charge. Take a unit of 8 nobs and do the math. A 3+ right up until the turn they charge is brutally good.
No, its a massive kick in the nuts.
You don't buy Warbikes to assault with them, they're dakka machines and in CC, they're slightly better than slugga boys for 3x the cost.
You don't take nob bikers as dakka machines. That's just pissing points away. The dakka on nob bikers is a nice side benefit, but they're a combat unit through and through.
Normal warbikers are way better because they're way cheaper.
Thats Nobz. And Nobz are a combat unit because power klaws.
Unless you want to change the way you approach things and look at them as a ton of ablative wounds for your warbosses and painboy.
The damage their nasty guns can do is often better than the damage a warboss could put out. So they can be ablative wounds that straight up multiply his firepower too.
Exhaust isn't a nerf, it is a sideways move. It is better when turbo boosting and worse when not. As far as how often you should be turbo boosting, every turn that you aren't about to charge. Take a unit of 8 nobs and do the math. A 3+ right up until the turn they charge is brutally good.
No, its a massive kick in the nuts.
You don't buy Warbikes to assault with them, they're dakka machines and in CC, they're slightly better than slugga boys for 3x the cost.
The dakka in a nob unit is the same as normal bikers for 3x the price. Nob bikers still get the rounds they charge to dump shots (though that is risky since you may lose your charge due to killing the enemy unless you are right on top of them.
And the damage output for nob bikers is absurd. They are hyper fast, insanely durable, and viciously lethal in CC. They are also fire magnets, meaning those 3+ saves are awesome.
I run 36 bikers (three units of 12) plus 8 nob bikers. With 3+ cover, they will now be even nastier since they can zip across the board, shoot then charge. What isn't to love?
As far as builds, I run three power klaws, 1 big choppa, and 2 normal nobs plus the pain boy and the war boss. Total PK attacks on the charge: 17.
Hey, the flat 4+ was a nice easy thing to have. But it was often somewhat redundant since, once again, most units have a 5+ cover from SOMETHING. Now, our boyz at least get the option to ignore 2/3 the wounds that manage to get through our T5 and then we toss another 1/3 from FNP. Nob bikers are crazy tough now. They always were of course, but they now toss 16% more of the wounds that used to get through.
Nobody will say the loss of fearless isn't going to be felt. Or the loss of KFF projecting from vehicles. But when you combine all the other things (dedicated transports for key units, Tankbustas huge improvement, bikers costs dropping by 30%) you have a much improved army. And best of all, the here we go and waaagh rules will make this army.
Yeah, with the boss and pain boy mine scraps 600 points, but it will eat an entire army's shooting for two turns and still have models enough to crush most things in CC while offering cover for the rest of the army (by soaking up all that shooting).
Granted, a 15 man unit can do something similar, but all them power klaws! All that fluffiness!
Something to remember...the big mek can ride a bike with a KFF now. If you swapped him in, instead of the warboss, he'd give the entire unit a 5++ while they were en route to their target.
Though the warboss is still insanely awesome, he is definitely taking a backburner to the mek's in this edition of the codex.
Vineheart01 wrote: Ork FoC is pointless. Rather take 4 HQs and 4 troops with normal FoC requirements and be able to field 6 elite/fa/heavy.
If the Ork FoC increased elite/fa/heavy by 1 as well, it would be very much appreciated and well received by us orkies. As it is, since our troops are kinda pointless unless you field so many it makes the game take FOREVER (and even worse now with mob rule chart) that the 9 troops really does not help.
The formation looses Ideal Mission Commander and Objective Secured. In their place are other benefits. Do you want to be able to call a WAAAGH! every turn from turn 2 and onwards, do you like your boyz to give the occasional hammer of wrath clobbering to their target? If so the ork formation is an improvement. Dakkajets will like the ork formation with 12 shots, BS 3 , TL and all.
*******
As for the warbikes, I prefer to give them a 3+ cover save in their first turn advancing. It is at this point they will face the highest amount of firepower. Afterwards they will hopefully have wrecked a key element in the opponents firebase. Then again I dream of driving a list with plenty of warbikes, stormboyz, two min sized meganobmobz in trukks and some backfield firesupport, besides the boyz. If the warbikes are highly durable, something else will get shot to ribbons - namely the stormboyz.
Hey, can one buy a BW for MANZ, a trukk for some flash gits unit and 20 boyz... and then let the boyz start in the BW, MANZ in trukk and flash gits go on foot? This way I can mount my boyz in a BW without spending a HS slot on it.
greggles wrote: Something to remember...the big mek can ride a bike with a KFF now. If you swapped him in, instead of the warboss, he'd give the entire unit a 5++ while they were en route to their target.
Though the warboss is still insanely awesome, he is definitely taking a backburner to the mek's in this edition of the codex.
For roughly the same price you get a 5+ invulnerable save on a unit that will generally already ge getting a 3+ or a 5+ cover save and you lose waagh, +1 WS +1 S +1 T +1 A +1 W +1 LD.
If that sounds like a good deal to you, go for it. Bikers are a unit that probably needs the KFF least in the entire army.
greggles wrote: Something to remember...the big mek can ride a bike with a KFF now. If you swapped him in, instead of the warboss, he'd give the entire unit a 5++ while they were en route to their target.
Though the warboss is still insanely awesome, he is definitely taking a backburner to the mek's in this edition of the codex.
For roughly the same price you get a 5+ invulnerable save on a unit that will generally already ge getting a 3+ or a 5+ cover save and you lose waagh, +1 WS +1 S +1 T +1 A +1 W +1 LD.
If that sounds like a good deal to you, go for it. Bikers are a unit that probably needs the KFF least in the entire army.
mmmmm Sounds I need to put my big mek on a bike stat.
greggles wrote: Something to remember...the big mek can ride a bike with a KFF now. If you swapped him in, instead of the warboss, he'd give the entire unit a 5++ while they were en route to their target.
Though the warboss is still insanely awesome, he is definitely taking a backburner to the mek's in this edition of the codex.
For roughly the same price you get a 5+ invulnerable save on a unit that will generally already ge getting a 3+ or a 5+ cover save and you lose waagh, +1 WS +1 S +1 T +1 A +1 W +1 LD.
If that sounds like a good deal to you, go for it. Bikers are a unit that probably needs the KFF least in the entire army.
Yeah, but the KFF isn't there to guard the bikes. It's there to cover the vehicles that support the bikes. The protection for the biker unit is just a bonus.
That could be useful. But when I have bikers, I don't take them for scads of close range big shoota cover. I take them to rip into the enemy deployment zone, divert his attention from the rest of the army, and crush them or tie them up in combat the next round.
A KFF in a battle wagon combined with terrain and with vehicles moving behind them, will often give some protection.
Dakkamite wrote: My biggest issue with the bikers new cover is the same one that skimmers and stuff have (used to have?) - if you go second, no cover saves for you!
Anyone who has had their bikers bombed, fail LD7, and then ZOOM off of the board, will agree this is a serious issue for them.
You can still declare a Jink even if you go second.....or am I missing something?
Dakkamite wrote: My biggest issue with the bikers new cover is the same one that skimmers and stuff have (used to have?) - if you go second, no cover saves for you!
Anyone who has had their bikers bombed, fail LD7, and then ZOOM off of the board, will agree this is a serious issue for them.
You can still declare a Jink even if you go second.....or am I missing something?
no, the other guy is missing stuff.. a lot of stuff...
you can very much jink if you go 2nd,
trading an always on 4+ cover, for a 4+ cover you can always elect to take, that forces snap shots, and you can buff to 3+ if you dont mind 0 shots, is a sideways trade. especially given that you still have a 4+ armour, so you dont waste pts on a cover save you wont use against small arms fire that you get your 4+ against.
that the bikes went down 7pts is a HUGE buff, that the unit max size is 15 is also a huge buff.
Dakkamite wrote: My biggest issue with the bikers new cover is the same one that skimmers and stuff have (used to have?) - if you go second, no cover saves for you!
Anyone who has had their bikers bombed, fail LD7, and then ZOOM off of the board, will agree this is a serious issue for them.
You can still declare a Jink even if you go second.....or am I missing something?
He is right. If you don't get first turn, you won't have the chance to go flat out, which means the other player will get a round of shooting where you get no cover at all.
On the flip side, you know you aren't going first, so deploy in cover or behind something else! You will be moving up to 24" anyway. You will get where you need to be!
Dakkamite wrote: My biggest issue with the bikers new cover is the same one that skimmers and stuff have (used to have?) - if you go second, no cover saves for you!
Anyone who has had their bikers bombed, fail LD7, and then ZOOM off of the board, will agree this is a serious issue for them.
You can still declare a Jink even if you go second.....or am I missing something?
He is right. If you don't get first turn, you won't have the chance to go flat out, which means the other player will get a round of shooting where you get no cover at all.
On the flip side, you know you aren't going first, so deploy in cover or behind something else! You will be moving up to 24" anyway. You will get where you need to be!
Has nobody read 7th? you dont need to move to jink anymore.
Dakkamite wrote: My biggest issue with the bikers new cover is the same one that skimmers and stuff have (used to have?) - if you go second, no cover saves for you!
Anyone who has had their bikers bombed, fail LD7, and then ZOOM off of the board, will agree this is a serious issue for them.
You can still declare a Jink even if you go second.....or am I missing something?
He is right. If you don't get first turn, you won't have the chance to go flat out, which means the other player will get a round of shooting where you get no cover at all.
On the flip side, you know you aren't going first, so deploy in cover or behind something else! You will be moving up to 24" anyway. You will get where you need to be!
You can jink even if you don't move. You just don't get the extra +1.
Dakkamite wrote: My biggest issue with the bikers new cover is the same one that skimmers and stuff have (used to have?) - if you go second, no cover saves for you!
Anyone who has had their bikers bombed, fail LD7, and then ZOOM off of the board, will agree this is a serious issue for them.
You can still declare a Jink even if you go second.....or am I missing something?
He is right. If you don't get first turn, you won't have the chance to go flat out, which means the other player will get a round of shooting where you get no cover at all.
On the flip side, you know you aren't going first, so deploy in cover or behind something else! You will be moving up to 24" anyway. You will get where you need to be!
You can jink even if you don't move. You just don't get the extra +1.
which is exactly the same cover you got before...
except you have 30% more models due to the 7pts decrease in cost.
Dakkamite wrote: My biggest issue with the bikers new cover is the same one that skimmers and stuff have (used to have?) - if you go second, no cover saves for you!
Anyone who has had their bikers bombed, fail LD7, and then ZOOM off of the board, will agree this is a serious issue for them.
You can still declare a Jink even if you go second.....or am I missing something?
He is right. If you don't get first turn, you won't have the chance to go flat out, which means the other player will get a round of shooting where you get no cover at all.
On the flip side, you know you aren't going first, so deploy in cover or behind something else! You will be moving up to 24" anyway. You will get where you need to be!
You can jink even if you don't move. You just don't get the extra +1.
Ahhh, very good.
So really people are crabbing about the loss of 50% of the goal hits we got last edition in exchange for a huge point drop and the potential for greater protection on a flat out?
So really people are crabbing about the loss of 50% of the goal hits we got last edition in exchange for a huge point drop and the potential for greater protection on a flat out?
First World problems!
Yeah, the real problem is that Ignore Cover exists not that we got nerfed. I think it was a buff based on points drop and the turbo-boost +1.
easysauce wrote: which is exactly the same cover you got before...
except you have 30% more models due to the 7pts decrease in cost.
so its a buff.
Regular warbikers got an unambiguous buff due to the cost reduction, which we all assumed would happen given the point reduction for bikes in every 6th Ed codex.
However, they still didn't get nearly the same degree of buff those other bikes received, which is pretty much the 7th Ed Ork codex in a nutshell. The whole thing reads almost like it was for mid 5th edition in terms of rules and power level.
You can simply elect to Jink, you don't have to more. Jinking gives you a a 4+ cover. Going Flatout with Warbikers will give you a 3+ Cover.
I think people really need to read the 7th Edition Jink Rules.
I agree with easysauce that Jink was a sideways move, but gaining a 7pt/model reduction and larger max squads was a massive improvement. Overally, they are much much better.
Move and Flatout Turn 1. Move, shoot, assault Turn 2.
easysauce wrote: which is exactly the same cover you got before...
except you have 30% more models due to the 7pts decrease in cost.
so its a buff.
Regular warbikers got an unambiguous buff due to the cost reduction, which we all assumed would happen given the point reduction for bikes in every 6th Ed codex.
However, they still didn't get nearly the same degree of buff those other bikes received, which is pretty much the 7th Ed Ork codex in a nutshell. The whole thing reads almost like it was for mid 5th edition in terms of rules and power level.
This book will pancake tyranids and many space marine builds. IS it a challenger to the Eldar and Tau? Probably not, though I can see it giving mose Tau lists fits, especially if you go crazy biker heavy.
Toburk wrote: Regular warbikers got an unambiguous buff due to the cost reduction, which we all assumed would happen given the point reduction for bikes in every 6th Ed codex.
However, they still didn't get nearly the same degree of buff those other bikes received, which is pretty much the 7th Ed Ork codex in a nutshell. The whole thing reads almost like it was for mid 5th edition in terms of rules and power level.
That's an awful lot of certainty for a book that isn't even out yet.
It is better than the Chaos and Tyranid books. At least as good as Dark Angels. Pretty solid compared to space marines. Asta Militarum is sort of tailor made to beat it. Eldar should be fine against Orks. I can see Tau struggle.
Bikes are better though Tau suits and markerlights pulling off cover are still going to totally annihilate bike units. We have more of them and they are cheaper though I am not really sure it is as huge of a buff as people think.
previously, bikers/stormboyz could not benifit from WAAAGH,
and now get that, and ere we go on top of it,
even if bikes cannot "run",
its a huge threat range increase... my whole army of 6pt boys can be in CC turn two realistically. Or at least enough of it to really, REALLY hurt some stuff, esp eldar and tau.
I was doing ok against these guys in 6th ed,
now that I actually have ranged solutions for vehicles and fliers, on top of CC boosts across the board, now that orks actually have "force" weapons, and a relic instant death weapon, we have some anti MC capability too...
while we lost the ability to give everyone 5-10 pts 5++ saves, we gained the ability to give "most" guys 5++ for cheaper.... I also found that my 5++ was pretty worthless, as i never made 2+ 5++ rolls against force weapons or str 10 attacks... even making one roll is super lucky.
gaining a guaranteed re rollable 2+ from the relic is far better then the warboss having a 5++
I saw that nerf coming... what other book can give every model a 5++?? ++ saves are supposed to be rare, yet we saw everyone and their mother gettting them. most books are lucky to get a 5++, eldar, daemons, marines being the exceptions for the most parts, and they generally just get characters with 5++, not the whole army. GENERALLY!
I feel like the new ork dex is ver competitive, even against tau/eldar.
It wont roflstomp everything, but it has tournament winning able builds for sure.
re warbikers
+ as someone mentioned, ignores cover is a thing, so losing a cover save i barely used, is meh, I always prefeered warbikers over biker nobs because they are more pts efficient even before the buff.
pretre wrote: Yep and with turbo-boosting you go from:
20/36 hits to 11/36 hits. A bit worse, but still nasty.
Just above half is "a bit" now? Say it for what it is man.
Yep. A bit. Considering how many extra dakkaguns are going to be in the squad now.
Perfect's build was 10 Dakkaguns for the new version vs 5 in the old. So twice as many shots. Guess what that means.
That you have twice as many bikes whose exhaust cloud was nerfed? I mean, if you're going to change the topic from "exhaust cloud nerf" to "warbikes dropped in price", sure, I'll agree that they did and it's a nice buff.
PhillyT wrote:Hey, the flat 4+ was a nice easy thing to have. But it was often somewhat redundant since, once again, most units have a 5+ cover from SOMETHING. Now, our boyz at least get the option to ignore 2/3 the wounds that manage to get through our T5 and then we toss another 1/3 from FNP. Nob bikers are crazy tough now. They always were of course, but they now toss 16% more of the wounds that used to get through.
Nobody will say the loss of fearless isn't going to be felt. Or the loss of KFF projecting from vehicles. But when you combine all the other things (dedicated transports for key units, Tankbustas huge improvement, bikers costs dropping by 30%) you have a much improved army. And best of all, the here we go and waaagh rules will make this army.
Terrain will depend entirely on your board and club, and so is almost worthless to bring up in balanced discussion. We had the option of 4+ FNP on nob bikers before, in addition to cybork bodies being 5++, so if you can find a way to still make this a buff for Nob bikers... There is literally no way that Nob bikers are buffed now. None. Zero. Their cost is the same and their saves are all worse baring the 4+ armor save from the bike.
The buffs we got (baring Tankbusta buffs, which are sweet) in no way shape or form offset the neutering certain key elements received. You could say the codex is improved, I don't, but to say Orks are a "much improved army" requires a level of self delusion I am simply incapable of inflicting on myself.
So really people are crabbing about the loss of 50% of the goal hits we got last edition in exchange for a huge point drop and the potential for greater protection on a flat out?
First World problems!
Yeah, the real problem is that Ignore Cover exists not that we got nerfed. I think it was a buff based on points drop and the turbo-boost +1.
Exhaust is a Nerf in that it nerfs ALL Bikes. So Warbikers coming down in cost doesn't change the nerf to bikes for Warbosses, Big Meks, Painboys or Nobz. Is the points drop on regular Warbikers nice? Yes, it is. Will Warbikers be worth their now reduced points with their reduced save? Time will have to bear that one out. I'm suspecting plenty of people will play them, so hopefully we'll get lots of data pretty quickly.
Toburk wrote:
easysauce wrote: which is exactly the same cover you got before...
except you have 30% more models due to the 7pts decrease in cost.
so its a buff.
Regular warbikers got an unambiguous buff due to the cost reduction, which we all assumed would happen given the point reduction for bikes in every 6th Ed codex.
However, they still didn't get nearly the same degree of buff those other bikes received, which is pretty much the 7th Ed Ork codex in a nutshell. The whole thing reads almost like it was for mid 5th edition in terms of rules and power level.
This really is the perfect description for this book. It's a decent book with some unsightly flaws, but it's also 2 editions late.
PhillyT wrote:
This book will pancake tyranids and many space marine builds. IS it a challenger to the Eldar and Tau? Probably not, though I can see it giving mose Tau lists fits, especially if you go crazy biker heavy.
Plenty of S8 - S10 and/or AP2 in Nids that you characters are toast. Toast. Once that happens, Orks fall apart faster than Nids without Synapse. They may also have no invulnerable saves on Tyrants, but Tyrants can (and usually do) fly.
Broodlords? Broodlords will have your small units self destructing with Pinning checks at -2.
With how easy it is for Nids to spam psykers, your weirdboyz won't be getting anything through, and good luck stopping Catalyst from making your S10 warboss cry.
Seriously. I readily admit that I'm not the biggest fan of the Tyranid codex (even with the DLCataslates, but to say that this Ork codex will pancake Nids? You have to be joking. You just have to be.
And I'm not even getting into the Space Marine Chapter Master of Eternal Warrior Bike Thunderhammer Shield Doom.
So Wazdakka is gone because GW don't have a model for it. There are Relics in army now and one is a Bike? So what was the point of no model no special character? If we are forced to convert for relics what's the difference for character that has been part of our codex forever?
Bclion wrote: So Wazdakka is gone because GW don't have a model for it. There are Relics in army now and one is a Bike? So what was the point of no model no special character? If we are forced to convert for relics what's the difference for character that has been part of our codex forever?
Because that evil money grubbing Chapterhouse might make a model for it, and then you aren't buying GW pieces to make your own!
(there is none. it is pretty much a spite move, like Tyranid Myectic Spores being dropped entirely.)
esp the part where he whines about flying MC's owning orcs...
its like the traktor cannon doesnt exist or somthing.
oh wow... just noticed you complaining about losing the 4+ FNP on them too...
stop living in the past jebus... that was literally AGES ago... may as well complain that choppas now allow saves better then 4+ while your at it..
not like the rules changed in the past 3 editions or so... str 8 no longer insta gibs and ignores that 4+ FNP either... you going to complain for GW to make nob bikers insta gibbed by str 8 again too?
context is important.
pre this codex, orcs lacked:
reliable ranged anti tank (we got it)
reliable ranged anti air (we have arguably, the best AA in the game now, and AA for MC's)
reliable ways to instagib MC's or multiwound models (we got it with force weapons and uber choppa)
a ++ on our mega nobs without having to take grotsnik ( we got it, as well as eviscerators for MANS, and the extra CC atack on mans... a nice buff)
reliable charge range buffs (we got it IN SPADES!! not only can we run and charge, but we also get to re roll a charge dice... serveral units like bikers, GAINED ere we go where before they didnt get it)
Even if easysauces arguements are less then impressive, it seems you guys are quick to disregard some of the better upgrades we got in this codex and instead concentrate on builds and
armies that are pretty much exactly as they where in the last dex. I agree bikes look to be good still, but seriously, running orks like you have always done might not be the best way to go. We can actually shoot stuff now and get results.
Also the thing about tau - if you field a crapton of bikers against me im going to be a very sad tau player. I do NOT want to use my markerlights to strip cover because i almost never have more than 2 lights on a single unit unless i do the Mark'O trick - then i have little outside one unit getting hammered with lights lol.I would much rather make myself BS5 than ignore cover, but if its better than 5+ cover i kinda need to strip the cover. 4-6 units with 3+ cover turn 1 is going to scare the bejebus out of me. I might plaster 1 unit by giving my HBC riptide ignores cover, barring FNP rolls, but thats it unless you wiff 3+ like crazy.
We lost a 4+ cover for a 4+ cover with minus one bs... Not really a nerf, i used 15 bikes with a painboy yesterday against CSM and i lost 3 bikers the entire game! First turn i was on a 3+ followed by a 5+, 2nd turn i charged khornate terms and won, 3rd turn glanced a defilers back armour to deff. So for 18pts there good for what they do, not to mention a guarantee of line breaker
I think with the new warbikers, you can have two squads of 15bikes with a painboy in each and they will do some amazing work. Both in the shooting phase and the assault phase.
I can't wait to use them. Not a huge deal they aren't troops anymore, they score in 7th anyways.
If you need objective secured, get some boyz in a trukk.
tarnish wrote: Even if easysauces arguements are less then impressive, it seems you guys are quick to disregard some of the better upgrades we got in this codex and instead concentrate on builds and
armies that are pretty much exactly as they where in the last dex. I agree bikes look to be good still, but seriously, running orks like you have always done might not be the best way to go. We can actually shoot stuff now and get results.
I have acknowledged that there are several nice buffs in this book. Keep in mind I'm also focusing on units that existed previously and comparing changes, because there's only so much gushing that can be done over things like Mek Gunz (which are sweet, if stupidly expensive $$ wise).
Tankbustas are the most obvious example to me, of a unit that got buffs that it desperately needed. I would have loved to see them get more than just a Trukk for a DT, but meh. They still came down in cost, lost their unit-breaking Glory Hog limitations and get a few sweet USRs to boot. I look forward to finally getting to Tankhammer something in the face, and not risking my own Trukk when releasing Bomb Squigs!
Warbuggies! Even though a stray breeze can still wipe the floor with them, 5-10 points cheaper (depending on loadout) is sweet! I had just ordered a bunch of "sand buggies" from CNC to turn into Ork buggies, so I'm glad they're decent enough I did waste that money!
FlashGitz. Dunno if they'll really be that great on the table, but the models are super sweet. The sudden drop in armor save is perplexing though...
Shokk Attack gun! Okay, mostly unchanged (except getting Vortex on 11/12 strength), but still. I can put him on a bike, give him a Gitfinda and maybe I'll actually get something with it!
Blitz Bommas! AP2 + Large Blast on their Big Bomms? Sure they only get 2 per game, but still! I love the jets, and with the Dakkajet nerf why not make the other one into a Blitz Bomma?
The main issue is that just about everything I mentioned is secondary to units that can actually form a core of an army. Those are the ones that got hurt the most, generally speaking, and that's why despite the changes I do like, I can't see this codex as anything other than a sidegrade at best.
If you are playing in an environment where FW is not allowed, then you are already in the world of house ruling, so are essentially limiting yourselves. Can't really blame anyone else.
deffrekka wrote: We lost a 4+ cover for a 4+ cover with minus one bs... Not really a nerf, i used 15 bikes with a painboy yesterday against CSM and i lost 3 bikers the entire game! First turn i was on a 3+ followed by a 5+, 2nd turn i charged khornate terms and won, 3rd turn glanced a defilers back armour to deff. So for 18pts there good for what they do, not to mention a guarantee of line breaker
Can you give us more details on the game you played? You mentioned it earlier as well, and I find it gonzo bizarre that an Ork army would only lose 3 bikes, 18 boyz (and a meganob or two? I don't totaly remember your post.) in a 2000 point game.
Did they at least get rid of the cannot fire next turn crap?
Thats the thing that peeved me the most about that thing. As i tend to roll it unusually often.
Bclion wrote: So Wazdakka is gone because GW don't have a model for it. There are Relics in army now and one is a Bike? So what was the point of no model no special character? If we are forced to convert for relics what's the difference for character that has been part of our codex forever?
Because that evil money grubbing Chapterhouse might make a model for it, and then you aren't buying GW pieces to make your own!
(there is none. it is pretty much a spite move, like Tyranid Myectic Spores being dropped entirely.)
See, this is why your complaints about the rules are so difficult to accept as legitimately about the rules. You have a great deal of bile to spew about GW as a whole. The rules are just one small part and your statements about them are heavily tainted because of it.
Bikes can take their 4+ cover save anytime they want. They often won't need to because of the existence of terrain. 90% of the time you can claim a 5+ save. On those occasions that that won't be enough, you can take a 4+ jink save. If you really want a good cover save, go flat out and get a 3+. It isn't in any way a nerd, especially when you factor in the price drop. But keep on venting, please.
Epic. Thanks that makes me happier. Ive actually landed that thing before so it wasnt impossible, but not being able to fire next turn just pissed me off. I had it happen 3 times one game lol...basically never did anything since i missed every time and didnt fire the other 3 turns.
Bclion wrote: So Wazdakka is gone because GW don't have a model for it. There are Relics in army now and one is a Bike? So what was the point of no model no special character? If we are forced to convert for relics what's the difference for character that has been part of our codex forever?
Because that evil money grubbing Chapterhouse might make a model for it, and then you aren't buying GW pieces to make your own!
(there is none. it is pretty much a spite move, like Tyranid Myectic Spores being dropped entirely.)
See, this is why your complaints about the rules are so difficult to accept as legitimately about the rules. You have a great deal of bile to spew about GW as a whole. The rules are just one small part and your statements about them are heavily tainted because of it.
Bikes can take their 4+ cover save anytime they want. They often won't need to because of the existence of terrain. 90% of the time you can claim a 5+ save. On those occasions that that won't be enough, you can take a 4+ jink save. If you really want a good cover save, go flat out and get a 3+. It isn't in any way a nerd, especially when you factor in the price drop. But keep on venting, please.
Uh, I guess I thought it was clear that post should be read jokingly ("evil moneygrubbing Chapterhouse" should have been a clue I guess?). I mean, I agree with the general sentiment that GW is removing things it doesn't make or want to make a model for due to the Chapterhouse lawsuit, but I don't hate them for it or anything. Am I disappointed they couldn't return Spores to even just a special rule for Nids? Sure. Do I think GW is evil and I hate everything they do?
I've said before: I pre-ordered the Warboss edition of this codex. I enjoy 40k. I enjoy modeling (not so much painting, but modeling), playing and talking about it. That doesn't make me blind to issues that exist in this (or any other) codex.
Again, the existence of cover is ENTIRELY dependent on the board you play on and the club you play in. It's generally left out as a factor because it varies SO MUCH from table to table and game to game. Looking at the hard copy, written rules of a game is what I'm doing.
We had something, we lost it except for going through this other thing that comes with its own cost. Sure, we get this bonus in this other situation, but that doesn't change losing something. Will it be the biggest nerf in Ork or 40k history? That I can't say, I'd probably say the loss of ++ cybork is a bigger deal, personally. Does that make it not a nerf? No. Can we work around it by doing other things? Yes. Does that make it not a nerf? No. I'm not sure how much more clear you want me to be.
I feel like Warbikers have gotten overall buffs, so much so that I cannot conceivably imagine using my battleforce bikes as nob bikers any more.
I think Nob Bikers are a joke now, though. If you still want to use them, good for you.
Waagh requires a Warboss now, does it not? Or a roll on the warlord trait.
'Ere We Go is a substitute for the loss of Waagh. Combined they make for a massive threat range. I'm just not sure about using a Waaghboss any more.
Fundamentally I think that everyone can recognize that the really massive buffs in this codex are primarily the Mek guns and the Tankbustas. Anything else seems up in the air to me.
And the nerfs to the boyz are obvious, and god do they sting.
I can't believe you dudes are still going to take a KFF. It would cost as much as a battlewagon to put that thing on a bike - why not just buy another battlewagon?
CSM had 6 obliterators, 2 hell drakes, 30 marines with mark of slaanesh, 30 cultists with mark of nurgle, 2 rhinos, land raider with sorcerer lvl 3 on biomancy with mark of khorne termies with him, i had 90 boys, 3 big trakks (two with supakannons, ard case and riggers) 5 meganobs, 2 kff big meks, 2 meks (in the superkannon trakks), 15 bikers with nob pk and painboy with waaagh! Banner, and 2 blitza bommas, 10 kommandos
i got first turn and first blood, line breaker, game type was big guns never tire, kff's were my saving grace for all my boys, and due to his bad rolling. IWND and meks continually fixed my big trakks at the back of my deployment.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Obliterators had mark of nurgle as well. I did even touch them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And banner of excess was dotted around the squads if i remember correctly.
Automatically Appended Next Post: From skullchewer off warseer:
Ghaz supplement gives a new Warlord trait and relics section, some army wide rules if you use it and lots and lots of formations.
Some of the Relics:
4+ kff Axe of Ragnarork: Every model you kill gives +1str -1ap,
Cybork body that's give 5+ fnp and Eternal warrior
The one good thing about the KFF nerf was that they didn't give it shrouding. When I saw the Venomthrope had it, I immediately wondered how much thought GW had put into it.
On the other hand, I wonder if GW knew shrouded effected the whole unit.
TedNugent wrote: I feel like Warbikers have gotten overall buffs, so much so that I cannot conceivably imagine using my battleforce bikes as nob bikers any more.
I think Nob Bikers are a joke now, though. If you still want to use them, good for you.
How are nob bikers a joke? The CC damage output is beyond compare within the codex outside of a unit of nobs similarly equipped charging from a transport, or a unit of meganobz charging from a transport. All three choices cost roughly the same. if you aren't using any of the three, you are looking for massed attacks, which only go so far.
Waagh requires a Warboss now, does it not? Or a roll on the warlord trait.
'Ere We Go is a substitute for the loss of Waagh. Combined they make for a massive threat range. I'm just not sure about using a Waaghboss any more.
Fundamentally I think that everyone can recognize that the really massive buffs in this codex are primarily the Mek guns and the Tankbustas. Anything else seems up in the air to me.
The mek guns aren't much. The tractor cannon is the only one that stands out as truly great, and with flyers fading somewhat in 7th (supposedly) they will be of middling effectiveness. If you think you are facing fliers, then they can be awesome though.
I think the changes to here we go, boarding planks, and waaagh will turn out to be the big changes that cement this book. Orks will now be able to make surprising and rapid charges into areas people will have no idea where even threatened. Everything else is typical point and slot manipulation (all but one for the better - lootas to heavy stings slightly).
TedNugent wrote: I feel like Warbikers have gotten overall buffs, so much so that I cannot conceivably imagine using my battleforce bikes as nob bikers any more.
I think Nob Bikers are a joke now, though. If you still want to use them, good for you.
How are nob bikers a joke? The CC damage output is beyond compare within the codex outside of a unit of nobs similarly equipped charging from a transport, or a unit of meganobz charging from a transport. All three choices cost roughly the same. if you aren't using any of the three, you are looking for massed attacks, which only go so far.
Really appreciate all your info. I couldn't find this in any of the previous posts and was wondering if you elaborate on the costs for wierdboyz, big Meks and the new "mini" Meks?
I want to try a game tomorrow and can just use the old costs as a baseline but figured I'd see if we can verify the details.
Anyone else a little upset that the following scenario is a very realistic outcome with the new dex?
A trukk with 12 boyz gets exploded by a str 7 weapon. Opponent rolls well and wounds 7 boyz off of the new str 4 explosion. 6 die. Leadership test failed, roll on table and you get a 3. Roll a 5 and 4 boys die. You are left with 1 boy......
My trukks are so deadly now. Deadly in the sense that if they explode, which they will, the boys inside are reduced to a useless squad or killed.
Nobbikers are a bit of a joke atm because they cost the same and lost the invul. Multi-wound got a lot less tasty looking when they wont have any save whatsoever in melee outside the FNP since the alternative is 3 wounds for the cost and nearly triple the attacks. Lack of a PK, yes, but lets be honest putting more than 2 PKs in a 6-8man nob blob (not including boss) was kinda overkill anyway and usually not needed (or killed due to no ablative wounds infront of them...i always used sluggachoppa and BC nobz to soak wounds for my 2 PKs, Painboy, and warboss in my 7man squad)
Offensively theyre the same as before. Theyre just drastically easier to kill against anything with AP4 weapons.
Really appreciate all your info. I couldn't find this in any of the previous posts and was wondering if you elaborate on the costs for wierdboyz, big Meks and the new "mini" Meks?
I want to try a game tomorrow and can just use the old costs as a baseline but figured I'd see if we can verify the details.
TableTopJosh wrote: Anyone else a little upset that the following scenario is a very realistic outcome with the new dex?
A trukk with 12 boyz gets exploded by a str 7 weapon. Opponent rolls well and wounds 7 boyz off of the new str 4 explosion. 6 die. Leadership test failed, roll on table and you get a 3. Roll a 5 and 4 boys die. You are left with 1 boy......
My trukks are so deadly now. Deadly in the sense that if they explode, which they will, the boys inside are reduced to a useless squad or killed.
Don't forget the morale test at the end of the phase for losing 25% of the unit
This thread will probably be locked once the codex comes out, so be sure to check out Orks in 7th Edition Thread for continued Ork strategy discussion.
adamsouza wrote: This thread will probably be locked once the codex comes out, so be sure to check out Orks in 7th Edition Thread for continued Ork strategy discussion.
Well, there's still the supplement and the Meganobz to come.
TableTopJosh wrote: Anyone else a little upset that the following scenario is a very realistic outcome with the new dex? A trukk with 12 boyz gets exploded by a str 7 weapon. Opponent rolls well and wounds 7 boyz off of the new str 4 explosion. 6 die. Leadership test failed, roll on table and you get a 3. Roll a 5 and 4 boys die. You are left with 1 boy......
My trukks are so deadly now. Deadly in the sense that if they explode, which they will, the boys inside are reduced to a useless squad or killed.
Don't forget the morale test at the end of the phase for losing 25% of the unit
TableTopJosh wrote: Anyone else a little upset that the following scenario is a very realistic outcome with the new dex?
A trukk with 12 boyz gets exploded by a str 7 weapon. Opponent rolls well and wounds 7 boyz off of the new str 4 explosion. 6 die. Leadership test failed, roll on table and you get a 3. Roll a 5 and 4 boys die. You are left with 1 boy......
My trukks are so deadly now. Deadly in the sense that if they explode, which they will, the boys inside are reduced to a useless squad or killed.
Wait? Isn't that this maths?
S4 T4 means an average of 6 wounds, 6+ save right? meaning 5 die. LD 7? means slightly better chance than 50% to pass but assuming you fail you take D6 Str4 hits meaning an average of 1.5 wounds?
So I blow the transport up and roughly 6 boys die? so half the squad?
Seriously? Not even proppa new artwork for Ghazghkull or the Stompa? If I'm paying for colour and hard cover, I better well-damn get my pretty pics. I really hope this doesn't mean the unit portraits or going to be just of models... >
hmm seeing that the dread armylist is the only way to get warbikers as regular troops now...
four quick questions about Zhadsnark:
1. do i have to go unbound to use him?
2. do the new ork codex rules overide the IA8 rules? (point costs, special rules etc if not stated otherwise in the IA8 book)
3. does his rippa claw still strikes at normal initiative?
4. can he roll on the new warlord table?
link to latest dread army faq:
www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/d/Dred_Mob.pdf
Seriously? Not even proppa new artwork for Ghazghkull or the Stompa? If I'm paying for colour and hard cover, I better well-damn get my pretty pics. I really hope this doesn't mean the unit portraits or going to be just of models... >
I'm pretty sure GW aren't doing artwork for unit entries anymore. The entire point of their dataslate system (I think that's what they are calling it) is that you get to see the model(s) of the unit, read their background, check their statlines, wargear and special rules all in one place. If they're making sure there are models for every unit, they might as well show them off.
TableTopJosh wrote: Anyone else a little upset that the following scenario is a very realistic outcome with the new dex?
A trukk with 12 boyz gets exploded by a str 7 weapon. Opponent rolls well and wounds 7 boyz off of the new str 4 explosion. 6 die. Leadership test failed, roll on table and you get a 3. Roll a 5 and 4 boys die. You are left with 1 boy......
My trukks are so deadly now. Deadly in the sense that if they explode, which they will, the boys inside are reduced to a useless squad or killed.
Wait? Isn't that this maths?
S4 T4 means an average of 6 wounds, 6+ save right? meaning 5 die. LD 7? means slightly better chance than 50% to pass but assuming you fail you take D6 Str4 hits meaning an average of 1.5 wounds?
So I blow the transport up and roughly 6 boys die? so half the squad?
Opponent rolls average, wounds 6. You save average 5 die, Leadership.... well lets fail it and get a D6 STR4 hits. Average 3 hits, 1.5 wounds. Round it up for 2 dead. Ya it stinks but that is if you end up completely average. There are how many steps to this conclusion? If you go all the way to the start:
Enemy Hits Truck
Enemy Pens Truck
You fail Ramshackle
Enemy Explodes Truck
Truck boyz are wounded
Truck boyz make saves
Truck boyz make leadership (if casualties are high enough, probly are)
Boyz roll on chart if leadership failed
Boyz either fall back or take D6 Hits
There are a TON of steps, it is quite possible for one of these to go skewed in your favor and the chain STOPS.
TableTopJosh wrote: Anyone else a little upset that the following scenario is a very realistic outcome with the new dex?
A trukk with 12 boyz gets exploded by a str 7 weapon. Opponent rolls well and wounds 7 boyz off of the new str 4 explosion. 6 die. Leadership test failed, roll on table and you get a 3. Roll a 5 and 4 boys die. You are left with 1 boy......
My trukks are so deadly now. Deadly in the sense that if they explode, which they will, the boys inside are reduced to a useless squad or killed.
Don't forget the morale test at the end of the phase for losing 25% of the unit
how does a str 7 weapon explode anything, now it must be ap2 or better, as well as pen, to cause blow up results.
since most people are glancing to death with str 7+ now, our trukks got a nice boost with 7th ed (i do miss ramshackle table, but trukks also got a pts reduction, so not bad over all)
so unless they are using lascannons or other ap2 or better stuff, the boys inside only have to pass a pinning check for wreked vehicles.
TableTopJosh wrote: Anyone else a little upset that the following scenario is a very realistic outcome with the new dex? A trukk with 12 boyz gets exploded by a str 7 weapon. Opponent rolls well and wounds 7 boyz off of the new str 4 explosion. 6 die. Leadership test failed, roll on table and you get a 3. Roll a 5 and 4 boys die. You are left with 1 boy......
My trukks are so deadly now. Deadly in the sense that if they explode, which they will, the boys inside are reduced to a useless squad or killed.
Wait? Isn't that this maths?
S4 T4 means an average of 6 wounds, 6+ save right? meaning 5 die. LD 7? means slightly better chance than 50% to pass but assuming you fail you take D6 Str4 hits meaning an average of 1.5 wounds?
So I blow the transport up and roughly 6 boys die? so half the squad?
Opponent rolls average, wounds 6. You save average 5 die, Leadership.... well lets fail it and get a D6 STR4 hits. Average 3 hits, 1.5 wounds. Round it up for 2 dead. Ya it stinks but that is if you end up completely average. There are how many steps to this conclusion? If you go all the way to the start:
Enemy Hits Truck Enemy Pens Truck You fail Ramshackle Enemy Explodes Truck Truck boyz are wounded Truck boyz make saves Truck boyz make leadership (if casualties are high enough, probly are) Boyz roll on chart if leadership failed Boyz either fall back or take D6 Hits
There are a TON of steps, it is quite possible for one of these to go skewed in your favor and the chain STOPS.
It actually goes:
Enemy Hits Truck Enemy Pens Truck You fail Ramshackle Enemy Explodes Truck Truck boyz are wounded Truck boyz make saves Boyz test for pinning Boyz roll on chart if pinning test failed Boyz either pinned or take D6 Hits Boyz make leadership (if casualties are high enough, probably are) Boyz roll on chart if leadership failed Boyz either fall back or take D6 Hits
You missed out one case of possible D6 hits, the pinning test from the vehicle popping.
TableTopJosh wrote: Anyone else a little upset that the following scenario is a very realistic outcome with the new dex?
A trukk with 12 boyz gets exploded by a str 7 weapon. Opponent rolls well and wounds 7 boyz off of the new str 4 explosion. 6 die. Leadership test failed, roll on table and you get a 3. Roll a 5 and 4 boys die. You are left with 1 boy......
My trukks are so deadly now. Deadly in the sense that if they explode, which they will, the boys inside are reduced to a useless squad or killed.
Wait? Isn't that this maths?
S4 T4 means an average of 6 wounds, 6+ save right? meaning 5 die. LD 7? means slightly better chance than 50% to pass but assuming you fail you take D6 Str4 hits meaning an average of 1.5 wounds?
So I blow the transport up and roughly 6 boys die? so half the squad?
Opponent rolls average, wounds 6. You save average 5 die, Leadership.... well lets fail it and get a D6 STR4 hits. Average 3 hits, 1.5 wounds. Round it up for 2 dead. Ya it stinks but that is if you end up completely average. There are how many steps to this conclusion? If you go all the way to the start:
Enemy Hits Truck
Enemy Pens Truck
You fail Ramshackle
Enemy Explodes Truck
Truck boyz are wounded
Truck boyz make saves
Truck boyz make leadership (if casualties are high enough, probly are)
Boyz roll on chart if leadership failed
Boyz either fall back or take D6 Hits
There are a TON of steps, it is quite possible for one of these to go skewed in your favor and the chain STOPS.
I understand that. Im saying its still a likely outcome when a trukk explodes you will be left wih only a few boyz. Its a huge hit to trukks and its sucks big balls.
TableTopJosh wrote: Anyone else a little upset that the following scenario is a very realistic outcome with the new dex? A trukk with 12 boyz gets exploded by a str 7 weapon. Opponent rolls well and wounds 7 boyz off of the new str 4 explosion. 6 die. Leadership test failed, roll on table and you get a 3. Roll a 5 and 4 boys die. You are left with 1 boy......
My trukks are so deadly now. Deadly in the sense that if they explode, which they will, the boys inside are reduced to a useless squad or killed.
Don't forget the morale test at the end of the phase for losing 25% of the unit
how does a str 7 weapon explode anything, now it must be ap2 or better, as well as pen, to cause blow up results.
since most people are glancing to death with str 7+ now, our trukks got a nice boost with 7th ed (i do miss ramshackle table, but trukks also got a pts reduction, so not bad over all)
so unless they are using lascannons or other ap2 or better stuff, the boys inside only have to pass a pinning check for wreked vehicles.
Open Topped, +1 to the roll on the damage chart.
Plus there is S7 weaponry which is AP2 (Plasma Guns, for example).
I'm not a feething idiot who can't do divide number by 2. I was just giving an example of how things will go sometimes and how much it hurts our trukk boys.
TableTopJosh wrote: Anyone else a little upset that the following scenario is a very realistic outcome with the new dex?
A trukk with 12 boyz gets exploded by a str 7 weapon. Opponent rolls well and wounds 7 boyz off of the new str 4 explosion. 6 die. Leadership test failed, roll on table and you get a 3. Roll a 5 and 4 boys die. You are left with 1 boy......
My trukks are so deadly now. Deadly in the sense that if they explode, which they will, the boys inside are reduced to a useless squad or killed.
Don't forget the morale test at the end of the phase for losing 25% of the unit
how does a str 7 weapon explode anything, now it must be ap2 or better, as well as pen, to cause blow up results.
since most people are glancing to death with str 7+ now, our trukks got a nice boost with 7th ed (i do miss ramshackle table, but trukks also got a pts reduction, so not bad over all)
so unless they are using lascannons or other ap2 or better stuff, the boys inside only have to pass a pinning check for wreked vehicles.
TableTopJosh wrote: Anyone else a little upset that the following scenario is a very realistic outcome with the new dex?
A trukk with 12 boyz gets exploded by a str 7 weapon. Opponent rolls well and wounds 7 boyz off of the new str 4 explosion. 6 die. Leadership test failed, roll on table and you get a 3. Roll a 5 and 4 boys die. You are left with 1 boy......
My trukks are so deadly now. Deadly in the sense that if they explode, which they will, the boys inside are reduced to a useless squad or killed.
Don't forget the morale test at the end of the phase for losing 25% of the unit
how does a str 7 weapon explode anything, now it must be ap2 or better, as well as pen, to cause blow up results.
since most people are glancing to death with str 7+ now, our trukks got a nice boost with 7th ed (i do miss ramshackle table, but trukks also got a pts reduction, so not bad over all)
so unless they are using lascannons or other ap2 or better stuff, the boys inside only have to pass a pinning check for wreked vehicles.
trukks are open top, you just need a 6 on a pen
And with any AP1 weapon it'll explode on a 4+. 50% chance to lose just under half your Boyz in the initial explosion then watch them tear themselves apart.
Trukk-boy mobs are useless now. What is going to happen in the new codex is people putting units of heavy hitting shooty stuff in them and flat-outting them into cover their 1st turn to unload (Flash Gitz) or putting units of MANz into them and flat-outing them with a boarding plank.
Ork players who didn't give Trukks much thought before are going to be buying one or two used ones on eBay from players whose Trukk-mob army is worthless.
TableTopJosh wrote: Anyone else a little upset that the following scenario is a very realistic outcome with the new dex?
A trukk with 12 boyz gets exploded by a str 7 weapon. Opponent rolls well and wounds 7 boyz off of the new str 4 explosion. 6 die. Leadership test failed, roll on table and you get a 3. Roll a 5 and 4 boys die. You are left with 1 boy......
My trukks are so deadly now. Deadly in the sense that if they explode, which they will, the boys inside are reduced to a useless squad or killed.
Don't forget the morale test at the end of the phase for losing 25% of the unit
how does a str 7 weapon explode anything, now it must be ap2 or better, as well as pen, to cause blow up results.
since most people are glancing to death with str 7+ now, our trukks got a nice boost with 7th ed (i do miss ramshackle table, but trukks also got a pts reduction, so not bad over all)
so unless they are using lascannons or other ap2 or better stuff, the boys inside only have to pass a pinning check for wreked vehicles.
trukks are open top, you just need a 6 on a pen
thats my bad, Im treating the 1 in 6 chance to roll a 6 as fairly negligent to happent.
before it was 5+... it can happen sure, but half as much now, it definatly sucks when it does, but that has always been the case with trukk boys... more so now that 50% will wound instead of 33%
the real question is,
why the hell were they shooting your trukk boys when you should have loads an loads of way more scary stuff closing in on them that are higher in the target priority.
I generally didnt take trukk boys before for the same reasons you mention, it sucks to have half of em die in the transport, if I did, its one or two that i can hide behind a BW or something so they dont get shot at.
so while I do really agree it sucks that that can happen, its not a new problem really.
Exactly. So why are they worse?... I'm not sitting here telling you they are more viable or in a better situation. I'm complaining because they are worse in the new codex.
TableTopJosh wrote: Anyone else a little upset that the following scenario is a very realistic outcome with the new dex?
A trukk with 12 boyz gets exploded by a str 7 weapon. Opponent rolls well and wounds 7 boyz off of the new str 4 explosion. 6 die. Leadership test failed, roll on table and you get a 3. Roll a 5 and 4 boys die. You are left with 1 boy......
My trukks are so deadly now. Deadly in the sense that if they explode, which they will, the boys inside are reduced to a useless squad or killed.
Don't forget the morale test at the end of the phase for losing 25% of the unit
how does a str 7 weapon explode anything, now it must be ap2 or better, as well as pen, to cause blow up results.
since most people are glancing to death with str 7+ now, our trukks got a nice boost with 7th ed (i do miss ramshackle table, but trukks also got a pts reduction, so not bad over all)
so unless they are using lascannons or other ap2 or better stuff, the boys inside only have to pass a pinning check for wreked vehicles.
trukks are open top, you just need a 6 on a pen
thats my bad, Im treating the 1 in 6 chance to roll a 6 as fairly negligent to happent.
before it was 5+... it can happen sure, but half as much now, it definatly sucks when it does, but that has always been the case with trukk boys... more so now that 50% will wound instead of 33%
the real question is,
why the hell were they shooting your trukk boys when you should have loads an loads of way more scary stuff closing in on them that are higher in the target priority.
I generally didnt take trukk boys before for the same reasons you mention, it sucks to have half of em die in the transport, if I did, its one or two that i can hide behind a BW or something so they dont get shot at.
so while I do really agree it sucks that that can happen, its not a new problem really.
I may try the new Ork detachment with 9 trukks of boyz at 918 points, for the lulz. Should make a lot of targets
why the hell were they shooting your trukk boys when you should have loads an loads of way more scary stuff closing in on them that are higher in the target priority.
I generally didnt take trukk boys before for the same reasons you mention, it sucks to have half of em die in the transport, if I did, its one or two that i can hide behind a BW or something so they dont get shot at.
so while I do really agree it sucks that that can happen, its not a new problem really.
Presumably because they can neuter 150-200 pts very easily with a shot, whereas there's much less opportunity to do real damage to other parts of your army with those shots.
So Trukk boyz are pretty much junk on an explodes, or atleast the unit is reduced to around a 1/3 or less of its size when all the flailing is done. Are Ard Boyz in trukks going to be viable? The threat range per ppm on a trukk is awesome so it has to have some place in some army build, either through different units or mass redundancy?
TableTopJosh wrote: I'm not a feething idiot who can't do divide number by 2. I was just giving an example of how things will go sometimes and how much it hurts our trukk boys.
Indeed. While it's not the average result, someone is going to lose a whole squad of trukkboyz without the boyz themselves being shot at.
The same issue occurs with the battlewagon too. If they take both sets of mob rule hits, the average unit of 7th Ed battlewagon boyz will have fewer models left over (11.83 dead, 8.17 alive) than a group of 4th Ed trukkboyz (3.3 dead, 8.67 alive)
There are only 12 boyz in the trukk, so giving them 'Eavy armor is not that expensive, and then you may lose much less boyz in the event the trukk explodes
But that only works for Boyz and Nobz, not for any other Orks, if I remember correctly what unit can or cannot take 'Eavy armor ...
Automatically Appended Next Post: One more thing, that someone else pointed out a few pages ago: what if you have a Mek with KFF inside the Trukk?
When the Trukk explodes, can you use the KFF to protect the models inside or not?
I think the rule about KFF and transport will be FAQ very quickly. If GW thought "logic" to authorize template weapon to hit models in open-topped vehicle, then the KFF should protect those models too.
I would hope the KFF protects the squad inside. I can see no reason why it wouldn't other than GW being GW.
Also, I don't have my rulebook handy, do you place models and then work out wounds? If so, the KFF would protect the models in an explosion I think. If it's worked out before you put models down, it can be argued that it wouldn't.
Either way, we need to wait for exact wording from the dex, or more likely, a FAQ.
Ghaz supplement gives a new Warlord trait and relics section, some army wide rules if you use it and lots and lots of formations.
Some of the Relics:
4+ kff Axe of Ragnarork: Every model you kill gives +1str -1ap,
Cybork body that's give 5+ fnp and Eternal warrior
If this is true, I need this. That axe looks ded choppy!
Sigmundr wrote: I would hope the KFF protects the squad inside. I can see no reason why it wouldn't other than GW being GW.
Also, I don't have my rulebook handy, do you place models and then work out wounds? If so, the KFF would protect the models in an explosion I think. If it's worked out before you put models down, it can be argued that it wouldn't.
Either way, we need to wait for exact wording from the dex, or more likely, a FAQ.
It's not so great from what I can read:
- Explodes!
"nearby units suffer a S4 AP- hit for each model within D6" of the vehicle [...] The vehicle is then removed from the battlefield."
- Transport
"The unit suffers a number of S4 AP- hist equal to the number of models embarked. ... Surviving passengers are placed where the vehicle used to be and in unit coherency ..."
So, it looks more like: (1) resolve the hits/wounds first, (2) remove the vehicle, (3) place the surviving models
Wooops, KFF only protects from shooting attackes (Thanks Greyhound!)
having never preordered something, or had something delivered to a store. How do you know when your order arrives at the store? Its meant to be there by saturday, but will I get a notification when it does arrive?
Dragonzord wrote: having never preordered something, or had something delivered to a store. How do you know when your order arrives at the store? Its meant to be there by saturday, but will I get a notification when it does arrive?
If you preordered something and have requested pick-up from your local GW, and preordered it within the right timeframe, your order should be waiting for you on Saturday. You won't get a notification sometime during the week to say it's at the store, since they wouldn't be able to give it to you anyway.
Basically, if you preordered the stuff on the day it went up (or maybe a day or two after) assume it'll be there for you on Saturday.
The warlord traits range between useful and useless to me (FNP one specifically, you likely already bought a painboy rather than gambling on getting a specific trait)
The relic KFF and the gun seem incredibly useful, the Klaw is perhaps a little over priced? (40 points to exchange all your attacks for one with insta death). But all look fun.
And now Dakka has the pics too.. Albeit the 1st image is pretty pants. Could've at least got the whole shebang in the pic instead of cutting off the important bit.
Warboss in mega armour, with the big boss pole, axe of ragnorork and killa shoota is what i would do, just feed him runty infantry to get the ap to 1, then go to town on elites
Automatically Appended Next Post: Play the song from fallout 3, the one that goes, "he's hacking and slashing and scalping. He's hacking and slashing and scalping, chop that meat" hahaha
Greyhound wrote: if you have the FOC slot (or play unbound), the cost of trukk = the cost of rokkit pack.
Stormboys = trukkboys for cost.
As I love the Stormboy models, this is interesting news. On the downside, Stormboyz were problematic thanks to how easily they die, so bringing the Trukks down to their level isn't exactly good news.
I'm still a little boggled that they didn't improve the dive-bombers at all. I've never even seen a Blitza-Bomba model. What does it look like? Is it nice?
The comment that Perfect Organism made about Warbikers is gold, though. I suspect that we will overall see a move away from Boyz + Nobz to units like Tankbustas, Gitz, Bikers; the semi-elite elements of the army doing the heavy lifting.
Dragonzord wrote: having never preordered something, or had something delivered to a store. How do you know when your order arrives at the store? Its meant to be there by saturday, but will I get a notification when it does arrive?
If you preordered something and have requested pick-up from your local GW, and preordered it within the right timeframe, your order should be waiting for you on Saturday. You won't get a notification sometime during the week to say it's at the store, since they wouldn't be able to give it to you anyway.
Basically, if you preordered the stuff on the day it went up (or maybe a day or two after) assume it'll be there for you on Saturday.
Yeah, thats what worries me. If i lived anywhere but Perth, i'd assume it'd be there on time... But living here, in the middle of nowhere, some kind of notification of it arriving would be good!
Guess i'll have to give them a call tomorrow and see if its available for pickup on saturday!
Sad that we miss out on a power weapon striking at initiative though.
.
