I hope we get to see the regular non Nemesis version of the Warbringer as well. I'm thinking it could be like a scaled down Warlord with paired Reaver weapons on the carapace.
Nurglitch wrote: Speaking of, and I know I keep harping on this, but do the Reaver Carapace Turbo Lasers fit on the Warlord Titan?
Not well. The Warlord weapons all have an exterior flange that covers the mounting point on the shoulder, while the reaver weapons are designed to fit the recess in the armour of the carapace so they’re nearly flush. If you use the reaver weapon on a warlord shoulder it sticks up a lot and there’s no proper mating between the parts so you’re more likely to slide the gun off than rotate it if you try to move it mid-game.
Nurglitch wrote: Speaking of, and I know I keep harping on this, but do the Reaver Carapace Turbo Lasers fit on the Warlord Titan?
Not well. The Warlord weapons all have an exterior flange that covers the mounting point on the shoulder, while the reaver weapons are designed to fit the recess in the armour of the carapace so they’re nearly flush. If you use the reaver weapon on a warlord shoulder it sticks up a lot and there’s no proper mating between the parts so you’re more likely to slide the gun off than rotate it if you try to move it mid-game.
Agreed. I've got a couple of the mega bolters to convert for a warlord but it's clear that they need work and can't just fit straight on. I think I'll attach them to cradles from some spare warlord laser blasters.
Try not to view them as "filler" and just as hobby articles. It's actually a good thing GW does this. It's a very casual way for them to market the game without having to wait for a new model release. It also is far more exposure for the game than putting it in White Dwarf alone, since not everyone subscribes to it.
So sure there's no new toys to buy, but if there's some conversation and attention on the game from GW it means its not forgotten and it also increases the chances of picking up more players for the game.
Yup don't know about you but as soon as that was released every one of my models broke and my books tore in half. Terrible. Completely broken and can't play anymore.
Or, just play them as they are, since they're no worse than anything else if you have two braincells to rub together and an appropriate amount of terrain.
The point is being missed here; the Acastus itself isn't the problem but how many one can field. Leigo vs Household games are broken because the Household player can overwhelm the Legio player with so many Acastus' that it turns into a slaughter.
I don't think the Acastus should be weakened, but as a serious contender to the warhound its points cost should not be half that of the hound. About 150 points is right for a fully armed( and operational!) Acastus. That 50pts-ish gap allows for the Warhound's advantage of repairs and pushing its reactor. But at 110 pts, there just isn't a good enough reason to spend it on anything else...
Again, if you're playing with an adequate amount of terrain it's simply not an issue. Spamming Acastus only wins games on Planet Bowlingball, anywhere else basic tactics will counter it no trouble; use LoS to limit how many can hit your big lads at any given time and focus them down, use your fast lads to force through a flank and roll up their line, get them moving around a bit and don't just wander out into the open and let them shoot at you, if they're spamming Acastus they're going to have limited numbers of other Knights so get in close with high RoF guns and stomp 'em.
Legio players can't expect to go up against Acastus like they're basic Knights who pose no real threat to their engines at range, that's what's getting them spanked, and they deserve it.
Yodhrin wrote: Or, just play them as they are, since they're no worse than anything else if you have two braincells to rub together and an appropriate amount of terrain.
Ah yes the old faithful stick head in sand and claim things are fine.
And btw here in this case appropriate would be OPEN terrain as that way there's way to destroy them before they get to shoot. So you suggesting play on planet bowling ball?
Yodhrin wrote: Again, if you're playing with an adequate amount of terrain it's simply not an issue. Spamming Acastus only wins games on Planet Bowlingball, anywhere else basic tactics will counter it no trouble; use LoS to limit how many can hit your big lads at any given time and focus them down, use your fast lads to force through a flank and roll up their line, get them moving around a bit and don't just wander out into the open and let them shoot at you, if they're spamming Acastus they're going to have limited numbers of other Knights so get in close with high RoF guns and stomp 'em.
Legio players can't expect to go up against Acastus like they're basic Knights who pose no real threat to their engines at range, that's what's getting them spanked, and they deserve it.
All I can say is this; If that is your experience of playing against such game-breaking odds then I can only salute you.
I would like to get excited by new AT scenery items but they don't do anything for me. The style is too neutral, they don't scream 40k or AT in your face and do not really match the plastic buildings either.
Considering the existing plastic stuff by GW, the price and the Vanguard stuff you can get, this is the first AT2018 stuff that has me passing. It must be bigger than I thought on seeing the price but I think I'll give this a miss. Roll on the missing Warlord Carapace weapons.
Yodhrin wrote: Again, if you're playing with an adequate amount of terrain it's simply not an issue. Spamming Acastus only wins games on Planet Bowlingball, anywhere else basic tactics will counter it no trouble; use LoS to limit how many can hit your big lads at any given time and focus them down, use your fast lads to force through a flank and roll up their line, get them moving around a bit and don't just wander out into the open and let them shoot at you, if they're spamming Acastus they're going to have limited numbers of other Knights so get in close with high RoF guns and stomp 'em.
Legio players can't expect to go up against Acastus like they're basic Knights who pose no real threat to their engines at range, that's what's getting them spanked, and they deserve it.
All I can say is this; If that is your experience of playing against such game-breaking odds then I can only salute you.
There's no defence for the Acastus' rules as they stand. It's obviously too powerful - both in terms of its points cost and for what it feels like it should do. How come its lasers are more powerful than a warhound's, with longer range? How come its ironstorm missile pod (a weapon a questoris knight can have on its roof in 40k) is more powerful than a reaver titan's apocalypse missile launcher? Because they did an awful job writing the rules - both for balance and for "realism" (and I realise that "realism is an absurd term, but some sort of in-universe consistency would be nice).
The terminal itself isn't even internally consistent. The Asterius is flat out better than the Porphyron, with S9 guns and large blasts, but for exactly the same price. A S9 gun that fires large blasts should obviously cost more than a S8 gun that fires small blasts, especially when mounted on the same exact platform, but it doesn’t on the Acastus.
To suggest that terrain is the solution tells me that you've probably never played a game of AT - and certainly not one involving knights. Knights like terrain. They are small, can move in any direction and have 360 degree fire arcs. And they outnumber titans, obviously. Terrain allows knights to hide from some titans while focusing down the others. The more terrain you have, the more the titans lose.
Edit: new terrain is nice I guess. Can't say I particularly like it, and I'm not sure how it's meant to work in game since it all seems too small to give cover to anything, but I guess people can stick it on bases if they want. I probably won't.
What I want to know is, can you squadron Farmer Cotton with Warhounds?
Jokes aside, the new terrain seems... a bit useless for AT, apart from objective markers.
It would look great on an Epic table, though. The manufactorum makes C&C Red Alert music play in my head. Blow it up before another Baneblade trundles out the door.
RE: the Acastus discussion... is this deja vu I am experiencing?
I have to agree that the new terrain is very neat, but its so small for AT. However as terrain features for AT and Aeronautica and a potential "epic return" they are great. So perhaps this is more seeding for a possible epic future (a lon gway off of course)
Yodhrin wrote: "You claim to be able to handle a situation in a game that I'm incapable of grasping?! The only possible conclusion is you've never actually played!"
For the first time I feel absolutely justified in saying; git gud.
Cool. Way to respond to none of the substantive arguments.
I'm pretty much immune to the attempted insult. I'm a decent player. Not that that matters really - I wouldn't need to be good to see that Acastus knights are broken.
I continue to believe you have never played a game of AT.
All they have to do is making AT scale of 40k terrain, instead we got half-sinking low detail building, isn't resin stuff suppose to achieve superior detail compare to plastic?
If these things do anything to the game it’s to make areas impassable. They’re too small to give cover to anything. But I’m not sure they should block movement either as pretty much any Titan could just stomp through them.
Maybe they just had the cad files from doing the tiles and decided to release them as bits.
Yodhrin wrote: "You claim to be able to handle a situation in a game that I'm incapable of grasping?! The only possible conclusion is you've never actually played!"
For the first time I feel absolutely justified in saying; git gud.
Cool. Way to respond to none of the substantive arguments.
I'm pretty much immune to the attempted insult. I'm a decent player. Not that that matters really - I wouldn't need to be good to see that Acastus knights are broken.
I continue to believe you have never played a game of AT.
That might be a little harsh. But I agree that 'just use enough terrain' suggests a lack of understanding about AT gameplay.
Anyway, yeah, the terrain items were probably just a low-hanging fruit opportunity. But at least it's another little appetizer, even if I'm ready for a full meal. My bet is still early 2020 for the next Titan chassis.
The funny thing is that for AI there’s a load of ground assets they’ve just released (I think, or they’re about to) that would look great for AT basing. They’re the kinds of things you’d find on a battlefield a bit more often than these random assorted civilian items.
I don’t hate this stuff but I don’t think I need it. I’d definitely have preferred it if they’d spent the time on something like alternate knight weapons instead. No harm done though.
Most of the bits are good detail pieces (and base toppers) but the “Manufactorum” is grossly undersized. More of an armoured workshop, really, suited to ground cars or maybe as an adjunct to an aircraft hangar.
I’m not even sure it would be the same scale size as GW’s own factory in Nottingham…
Mr_Rose wrote: Most of the bits are good detail pieces (and base toppers) but the “Manufactorum” is grossly undersized. More of an armoured workshop, really, suited to ground cars or maybe as an adjunct to an aircraft hangar.
I’m not even sure it would be the same scale size as GW’s own factory in Nottingham…
Child labor. They fit a ton of workers in that little building. Grimdark!
I like the little terrain bits. I know that I would be complaining that they didn't release them seperately given that they already went to the trouble of designing them for the big tiles (which look amazing btw).
We could do with a lot more stuff like this to break up the boxy nature of titanicus terrain and add a little more life to the boards. Hopefully they finally release that train at some point along with a monorail system as that would look awesome.
The power generators are about the only thing I like there. That manufactorum is really small, unless its intended to produce something like lasgun battery packs or such.
Also I hope this isn't count as the 4th quarter release this year, because they've been sitting on this tiny sprue(and the new knight they claimed already made) for a long time. I hope it's not because they didn't get more people/machine and push everyone/production slot into making AI kit instead....
I remain baffled that the Questoris upgrade sprue includes so many fists--purely decorative alternatives to the chainswords as far as I know--instead of extra ranged weapons.
Is there something about rocket-punching in the Molech book that I've missed? Or are they future-proofing for fisticuff rules to come?
Zenithfleet wrote: I remain baffled that the Questoris upgrade sprue includes so many fists--purely decorative alternatives to the chainswords as far as I know--instead of extra ranged weapons.
Is there something about rocket-punching in the Molech book that I've missed? Or are they future-proofing for fisticuff rules to come?
It would be awesome if they had new rules for that. The Rapid trait would obviously make sense for the chainsword, but maybe +1 strength for the fist?
Chopstick wrote: Also I hope this isn't count as the 4th quarter release this year, because they've been sitting on this tiny sprue(and the new knight they claimed already made) for a long time. I hope it's not because they didn't get more people/machine and push everyone/production slot into making AI kit instead....
With the known and rumoured release schedule for the rest of 2019 I'd be very surprised to see any other plastic AT stuff before Jan. However we could see the remaining Warlord weapons as interim FW releases like they did with the others.
Zenithfleet wrote: I remain baffled that the Questoris upgrade sprue includes so many fists--purely decorative alternatives to the chainswords as far as I know--instead of extra ranged weapons.
Is there something about rocket-punching in the Molech book that I've missed? Or are they future-proofing for fisticuff rules to come?
That's what happen when you let double fist spammer designing the sprue. Also 3 melta even though you already got one in the main kit. Truly a cunning and thoughtful individual is behind this masterpiece.
Glad the Atarus sheet is finally out. I can make my little titans match my big ones, and have smaller versions of some markings to put on the full size models as well.
Zenithfleet wrote: I remain baffled that the Questoris upgrade sprue includes so many fists--purely decorative alternatives to the chainswords as far as I know--instead of extra ranged weapons.
Is there something about rocket-punching in the Molech book that I've missed? Or are they future-proofing for fisticuff rules to come?
Well twin cc weapons is good build for questors anyway. Though yeah extra ranged weapons are sorely missed. As such this is pass for me. Already have 18 rocket pods so no need for these.
Zenithfleet wrote: I remain baffled that the Questoris upgrade sprue includes so many fists--purely decorative alternatives to the chainswords as far as I know--instead of extra ranged weapons.
Is there something about rocket-punching in the Molech book that I've missed? Or are they future-proofing for fisticuff rules to come?
That's what happen when you let double fist spammer designing the sprue. Also 3 melta even though you already got one in the main kit. Truly a cunning and thoughtful individual is behind this masterpiece.
But hey it's plastic and not resin.
Now you don't need to buy 6 boxes to get one banner with melta's. And what if you want multiple banners with all meltas?
Now you don't need to buy 6 boxes to get one banner with melta's. And what if you want multiple banners with all meltas?
I certainly don't need 4 Meltaguns for 3 Imperial Knights, you ok with that? Instead of using the extra space for...literally anything else? Head? Shield? decoration?
In case it isn't too obvious, you only need 3 meltagun for 3 knights, 1 each, there are already 1 in the main kit.
How this upgrade sprue get the seal of approval is truly amazing, the rocket pod is also wrong, and yet no one even notice to stop this.
Sure if there were law that you can only use contents of sprue to one banner you might have a point...but since you can use them among multiple questor banners.
tneva82 wrote: Sure if there were law that you can only use contents of sprue to one banner you might have a point...but since you can use them among multiple questor banners.
If you buy 2 box you get 8 meltagun and 6 knight, unless of course, you go to GW studio backroom and grab some leftover knights on the sprue, then yes the extra meltagun might be useful.
I'd still prefer an extra head or anything else over meltagun for your leftover/ebay/stolen knights
Oh yeah the secret 5 melta gun on 6 knights strat, I should've known.
Although I think GW recall the old Knight and combine them into the new one, so that's probably won't be very useful in the long run or for the majority. Right now it's already webstore exclusive.
Now you don't need to buy 6 boxes to get one banner with melta's. And what if you want multiple banners with all meltas?
I certainly don't need 4 Meltaguns for 3 Imperial Knights, you ok with that? Instead of using the extra space for...literally anything else? Head? Shield? decoration?
In case it isn't too obvious, you only need 3 meltagun for 3 knights, 1 each, there are already 1 in the main kit.
How this upgrade sprue get the seal of approval is truly amazing, the rocket pod is also wrong, and yet no one even notice to stop this.
It's the 9 melee weapons in a box of 3 knights that gets me. Especially when lance rules require duplicate weapon loadouts and you still only get 1 of each ranged weapon.
It's the 9 melee weapons in a box of 3 knights that gets me. Especially when lance rules require duplicate weapon loadouts and you still only get 1 of each ranged weapon.
Having to buy three boxes of them just to obtain a single legal banner for a lance was a bit crap. Yet on the other hand those three boxes provided a lance and at least each banner would be armed differently.
Price up was pretty obvious. Only way price would stay would be if it would be replacement sprue but no sprue to remove. Q was just what price it would be
After three boxes of the same unit, I might just settle for the upgrade kit and consider casting more of the rocketpods. Two more meltas would be welcome, and my two lancers are magnetized( shout out to tneva82 who advised me last year! ) so I might consider the thunderstrikes as alternative weapons for them(maybe put one of the new heads in their hand...a Titanicus Quarterback!). That leaves only a few bits unused...
Yeah, its salt in the wound when they could have at least done us the decency of a discount set. At this point one would do better to get a box of Acastus and Cerastus, providing three banners and a more powerful Lance for £10 less.
Looking ahead to Thursday's possible announcements; Maybe something on a new Titan, more Knights, an FAQ, third expansion...anything!
Do they have an AT or Specialist Games seminar, or a more general one for GW as a whole?
Spiel tends more towards the boardgame side of things. Last year's preview covered a new Blood Bowl team, WH Underworlds mob and a 3rd-party licensed game.
30th November is probably the most likely event for a notable reveal. If the missing Warlord Carapace weapons are out by then we can expect something *really* new.
Looks like Spiel is running until Saturyday so there might still be something.
Necromunda is to get a new starter set - much like Kill Team. I wonder if Blood Bowl and AT will get new starters down the road now that we have more products in those ranges.
Nurglitch wrote: Maybe it's a good thing that people aren't playing "keeping up with the joneses with AT." Do you really want a 40k-style escalation?
Maybe it's a good thing to show that they actually work on something for the past 6 months? The "new" Knight upgrade was done in plastic sprue, 6 months ago.(they also appear in the day 1 rulebook) And now it's get released as a fill in for that quarterly release, alongside nothing else. There are still stuff that got rule but no models.
And 40k is a 30 years old game with enormous amount of release, this game is over 1 year old, the way they work at SG is also different than GW. SG is a small group and new stuff are constantly being made, teased and release quarterly.
Nurglitch wrote: Maybe it's a good thing that people aren't playing "keeping up with the joneses with AT." Do you really want a 40k-style escalation?
More so than any other game, Titanicus is too quiet and its not only the underwhelming release schedule, but the lack of support in White Dwarf. Don't expect it to be featured every month, but six month stretches are far too long.
There's several screenshots doing the rounds of a spreadsheet which seems to cover every GW release until the end of the year. In the same batch as the usual 40k / AoS Xmas battleforces it lists an 'Adeptus Titanicus Knight Battleforce'.
It could be a hoax, but that should be verified when we see if the next couple weeks of pre-orders match the list.
schoon wrote: I'm OK with the non-frenetic pace of AT releases, but yes, they could do with a bit of news.
The Twitch steam today was a nice nod though.
It feels like it's time for the game to have a more major release, but I also fully recognize that it's a specialist product. *shrug* Assuming they're having a HH weekender this year, I'd expect something around that time. We know they're working on two books, and have multiple new Titan chassis in the works. I suspect 2020 will be a good year for AT.
Oh wow that is a great looking conversion, made by a GW staffer? If so I'd love to see them post some more pics of it and show how it was built. Now I just have to decided if I can rationalize buying $310 worth of kits to build that beasty myself...
That is rather amusing (doesn't look particularly well done from this distance, but the shape is recognizable). When I saw the initial scale of AT titans I did think "man, it'd be easy to bash a proper 40K Knight into an Imperator....", so glad I wasn't the only one!
On the one hand, it's pretty cool, and some good work.
On the other hand, this will end up spurring cries for an Imperator in AT, which is something that I'm hoping is a long ways off. /grumble
On the gripping hand, what is that on the shelf underneath? Is it some sort of Chaos Knight?
Eumerin wrote: On the one hand, it's pretty cool, and some good work.
On the other hand, this will end up spurring cries for an Imperator in AT, which is something that I'm hoping is a long ways off. /grumble
On the gripping hand, what is that on the shelf underneath? Is it some sort of Chaos Knight?
Alpharius wrote: I’m getting ready to build my Reavers - please explain/highlight/help me not make the same mistake!
The whole foot is 1 piece, you just need to follow the instruction and check picture, it actually look pretty bad if you put foot on the wrong side, since it'll misalign with the armor.
Another piece of advice is that the legs is very posable, but the pipes on the legs aren't, so be ready to do some pipework (cut or add more pipe) if you want some more elaborate pose. Also on the weapon too if you want pipe on them.
I was in WW today, its all a Staff's Legion and very nicely done too. Imperator is a Conversion. It was nice to get all the weapons I needed and pre order the new Knight Weapon Sprue.
Alpharius wrote: I’m getting ready to build my Reavers - please explain/highlight/help me not make the same mistake!
Yes, the feet. They are easy mix up, so please take your time! And watch out for the groin & butt armour plates - I nearly cried when I got his pelvis back-to-front!
Magnetizing the weapons is a step in itself so watch plenty of videos for inspiration...
Elbows wrote: That is rather amusing (doesn't look particularly well done from this distance, but the shape is recognizable). When I saw the initial scale of AT titans I did think "man, it'd be easy to bash a proper 40K Knight into an Imperator....", so glad I wasn't the only one!
Out of curiosity, what would you do differently? I guess the feet could do with some work but I thought everything else looked pretty much perfect, there is a noticable lack of crotch cannon I guess
Chopstick wrote: That's puny amount of guns, need more guns, like equal to multiple battleships.
Also tiny troop garrison, and knights at the feets
Imperators aren’t all that big, they’re only 50-ish metres tall in the fluff, battleships are 250+ metres long. 50 metres tall is roughly a 13 storey building.
Elbows wrote: That is rather amusing (doesn't look particularly well done from this distance, but the shape is recognizable). When I saw the initial scale of AT titans I did think "man, it'd be easy to bash a proper 40K Knight into an Imperator....", so glad I wasn't the only one!
Out of curiosity, what would you do differently? I guess the feet could do with some work but I thought everything else looked pretty much perfect, there is a noticable lack of crotch cannon I guess
When I do my Imperator (using the same base model as in the pic), the top castle will be way less ostentatious and a lot smaller. This thing, whilst true to the original, looks very goofy when compared to the Warlords / Reavers etc we have now. I loved the old model, but we've moved on now to a better aesthetic (imo). And I agree, legs aren't doing it either. I'll be leaving them as stock Dominus legs. They look very nice and also fit great with the current AT line. So it will pretty much just be a Dominus with a back-castle, and the castle will be way smaller and also more contemporary in looks. Probably just a couple of bunker-like structures and some sort of command / sensor structure. Definitely not a Gothic cathedral.
Chopstick wrote: New preview this weekend, hopefully there're more than just ... Cerastus knight, which they claimed was done 6 months ago.
Epic would be awesome but would 100% not happen....
Sadly not.
Successfully predicting a follow up game this year( smug mode enabled! ) I might project further ahead. Next year I reckon we might see another game involving tanks and similar vehicles...maybe using knights and aircraft too.
I think infantry might come in the form of assets; titan hunters, for example. Obviously FW is aware of players dressing their bases with older infantry products and will tap into that somehow. But I think FW wants to stay away from infantry until they feel ready for full-on epic.
I'm going to take them at their world that they're working on two future books and six new Titan chassis; have plans for Chaos engines, Ordo Sinister, etc.; and have absolutely no plans for Epic.
We know that plastic kits can take a year or more from conception to production.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You know, speculating here, the relative lack of visible progress for ATcould be because they've fast tracked full on Epic?
The reason is pretty simple. The development lead time for multil-part plastic kits is 12 months minimum, often more than 18. Basically everything released so far (including all plastic) was planned out before a single AT product hit store shelves. What we're seeing is the result of GW taking a low-risk approach to the AT range by not over-investing in designing products they couldn't gauge the demand for. If it had performed poorly it meant they would have wasted a small fortune on product design and tooling. So they came up with a conservative list of 2 supplements, 3 titans, 3 knights and some terrain.
It's only when they saw the GME selling out in days, the Reaver kit requiring multiple re-stocks and the Warlord becoming one of the best-selling kits of 2018 that GW would have been able to make the commercial decision to invest more resources into the AT range as a whole. With the lead times above that means any major new products would realistically be a 2020 release.
I'm confident we'll see something shown either tomorrow at B&G, or at the preview at the end of this month.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You know, speculating here, the relative lack of visible progress for ATcould be because they've fast tracked full on Epic?
Seriously. Just speculating.
I don't think Epic would really be doable given the detail level of current 8mm kits. Consider how much sprue space a simple Thunderbolt takes. If Rhinos are 2 to a sprue and sell at 4 for 25 GBP that's not really a feasible mass battle game.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You know, speculating here, the relative lack of visible progress for ATcould be because they've fast tracked full on Epic?
Seriously. Just speculating.
I don't think Epic would really be doable given the detail level of current 8mm kits. Consider how much sprue space a simple Thunderbolt takes. If Rhinos are 2 to a sprue and sell at 4 for 25 GBP that's not really a feasible mass battle game.
A rhino would be relatively easy to make in either 1 or 2 pieces even with an appropriate amount of detail.
With the manufacturing capability that GW has from concept to completion, epic souldnt be that difficult. They have all of the digital assets they need to make it happen.
Important to note that event takes place in the 500 worlds, not just Calth. Which means Shadow Crusade, which means the greatest Legio may be arriving...
Not sure how they would go about the Ursus claws as they would need a weapon card. Doubt they would release a card pack for just one card, but they could have a template in White Dwarf or the Community channel.
That said, if they release a new scout titan then it could share weapons with the warhound, and include the Ursus in its card pack...
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You know, speculating here, the relative lack of visible progress for ATcould be because they've fast tracked full on Epic?
Seriously. Just speculating.
I don't think Epic would really be doable given the detail level of current 8mm kits. Consider how much sprue space a simple Thunderbolt takes. If Rhinos are 2 to a sprue and sell at 4 for 25 GBP that's not really a feasible mass battle game.
There was good sized 6mm land raiders and rhino's made for epic armageddon. As AT is 6mm scale those would work just fine.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You know, speculating here, the relative lack of visible progress for ATcould be because they've fast tracked full on Epic?
Seriously. Just speculating.
I don't think Epic would really be doable given the detail level of current 8mm kits. Consider how much sprue space a simple Thunderbolt takes. If Rhinos are 2 to a sprue and sell at 4 for 25 GBP that's not really a feasible mass battle game.
There was good sized 6mm land raiders and rhino's made for epic armageddon. As AT is 6mm scale those would work just fine.
I am well aware, what I am saying is if GW made new Epic models they would make them at the level of the new AI models, and that level does not allow the models to be cheap enough to build Epic sized armies. Hence I do not believe GW will do full Epic again.
Rhino is a land vehicle, have no wing span, and only 1 turret. That's easily 4-5 per sprue.
They're slowly making epic with the 2 games, people need to be patient, it's a huge investment for GW, and no way the game would satisfy everyone with an Epic release with the current budget.
There was good sized 6mm land raiders and rhino's made for epic armageddon. As AT is 6mm scale those would work just fine.
Have to say, gentleman at the local gaming store has a Warlord with the old Space Marine edition Land Raider and marines on the base and...sigh, it really makes it special. It'd be nice if they released those just as a base decoration kit.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You know, speculating here, the relative lack of visible progress for ATcould be because they've fast tracked full on Epic?
Seriously. Just speculating.
I don't think Epic would really be doable given the detail level of current 8mm kits. Consider how much sprue space a simple Thunderbolt takes. If Rhinos are 2 to a sprue and sell at 4 for 25 GBP that's not really a feasible mass battle game.
There was good sized 6mm land raiders and rhino's made for epic armageddon. As AT is 6mm scale those would work just fine.
I am well aware, what I am saying is if GW made new Epic models they would make them at the level of the new AI models, and that level does not allow the models to be cheap enough to build Epic sized armies. Hence I do not believe GW will do full Epic again.
The epica ones already looked like 40k versions. There's no need for bazillion pieces. Remember they are lot smaller than tb. Actually almost third in length. So if tb is 2 to sprue make it 6 a sprue. And that's assuming they do wasted parts without need it.
Have you ever held the epic a vehicles? They aren't that big. Rhino isn't some 15m long vehicle after all
I mean, so long as you're not posting on the AT2018 FB group or playing in the more uptight GW stores(which probably aren't going to let you play a Specialist Game anyway), all you need to do is find someone local with a 3D resin printer and you can have all the base decorations you like.
I suspect it'll be at least a couple of years before we get anything that begins to approach Epic, perhaps longer if they really are planning to revive Battlefleet Gothic as well in some form.
The epica ones already looked like 40k versions. There's no need for bazillion pieces. Remember they are lot smaller than tb. Actually almost third in length. So if tb is 2 to sprue make it 6 a sprue. And that's assuming they do wasted parts without need it.
Have you ever held the epic a vehicles? They aren't that big. Rhino isn't some 15m long vehicle after all
You are making a strange assumption that they wouldn't scale up tanks after they already scaled up titans and airplanes.
The epica ones already looked like 40k versions. There's no need for bazillion pieces. Remember they are lot smaller than tb. Actually almost third in length. So if tb is 2 to sprue make it 6 a sprue. And that's assuming they do wasted parts without need it.
Have you ever held the epic a vehicles? They aren't that big. Rhino isn't some 15m long vehicle after all
You are making a strange assumption that they wouldn't scale up tanks after they already scaled up titans and airplanes.
With the size of most marine vehicles for example, they could split a rhino into 4 parts. Side, side, top and bottom. Predator with single piece sponson weapons and a 2 piece turret/gun would not take up much sprue space. That said, I don't want to see epic for a while as it would dilute titanicus badly, like it did back in the day. Superheavy tanks would be okay though, acting like mobile turrets effectively.
...a strat card. Well, I don't know about you guys but I feel I must run out and get a copy of White Dwarf.
Oh well. It's better than nothing. Sure a new weapon card would've been great (vortex missile as an alternative to the warp, maybe). But at least they're thinking about it.
The epica ones already looked like 40k versions. There's no need for bazillion pieces. Remember they are lot smaller than tb. Actually almost third in length. So if tb is 2 to sprue make it 6 a sprue. And that's assuming they do wasted parts without need it.
Have you ever held the epic a vehicles? They aren't that big. Rhino isn't some 15m long vehicle after all
You are making a strange assumption that they wouldn't scale up tanks after they already scaled up titans and airplanes.
EpicA rhino and land raider were already scaled up. And AT didn't as much as scale up as put in true 6mm scale rather than previous underscaled(they were more like 2-3mm scale). If you already have vehicle in true 6mm scale there's no need to upscale. IF you increase size then you will, funny that, get oversized model!
Guess you didn't ever have epic a era rhino and land raider but they were noticably bigger than original ones.
Remember: AT scale didn't change from epic. The titans just actually became that scale. The previous ones weren't even CLOSE to 6mm scale. 2-3mm scale, 4mm at the stretch. Now it's actually 6mm so any vehicle that's in 6mm scale is spot on with the titans.
The scale is one fourth of whatever scale 40K is. They have plainly stated this, all models match this. So any existing 40K vehicle that would get an official model will be in this scale. So if you know the size of a 40K model, you can count the size of a hypothetical AT/AI counterpart. That's it.
That would mean that an AT Primaris would be... a bit more than 10mm in height. It would also make a Rhino almost an inch and a half long... that feels a tad too much, IMHO, for the kind of game that Epic is.
Albertorius wrote: That would mean that an AT Primaris would be... a bit more than 10mm in height. It would also make a Rhino almost an inch and a half long... that feels a tad too much, IMHO, for the kind of game that Epic is.
Well, that's the size they will be if they ever make them. The 'one fourth' principle has been clearly stated.
Played a few great games of AT this weekend at Blood and Glory. Nothing to report in terms of rumours though, sadly. The knights were on sale but I didn't get any, since apparently there's a battleforce inbound.
SamusDrake wrote: Is it really going to take FW until Febrary to send out a quick FAQ to address the Acastus points issue?
Absolutely no reason to restrict the use of the Acastus.
What's funny/sad is about the same time the acastus came out and had issues in AT, the 28mm scale version got hit with the nerf bat repeatedly in the updated 8th ed fw knight rules.
Yes, they do seem to go from one extreme to the other.
To think we were saying that a knight army was not powerful enough to stand up to a Titan force, and now here we with a Knight that can spam titans into submission.
Rob Crouchley, the guy who you see commentating on AT battles on the twitch stream, has written some alternate Porphyrion rules. He basically halved all the numbers for the main guns, so they have 24” range and 2 shots instead of 48” and 4. And 4 shots at 20” for the missile pod, with no rapid trait.
We used these rules at Blood and Glory the other weekend. Same durability and cost and they seemed pretty fair.
What I would say in Warhammer World’s defence is that they’re not the people who write the rules. Also, this event is a narrative campaign – emphatically not a tournament. They are trying to create a fun environment, not a competitive one, and so they have limited a fun-killing unit. Hopefully the Acastus will be fixed before the event, preferably using Rob’s rules, and we can carry on.
To be honest I think that knights are generally a problem in AT. They sort of feel like they’re playing a different game – one without all the stuff that makes ATAT. Things like reactor management, turns, boosting for speed and shields make titans’s rules really crunchy. Knights totally ignore all that stuff and just zerg you – generally without much hope of success.
To be honest I think that knights are generally a problem in AT. They sort of feel like they’re playing a different game – one without all the stuff that makes ATAT. Things like reactor management, turns, boosting for speed and shields make titans’s rules really crunchy. Knights totally ignore all that stuff and just zerg you – generally without much hope of success.
Well, certainly not if they nerf the Acastus into uselessness as you're advocating.
I think it's telling that 9/10 people I see claiming the Acastus is some game-breaking horror end up just being generally of the view that Knights don't belong in AT.
To be honest I think that knights are generally a problem in AT. They sort of feel like they’re playing a different game – one without all the stuff that makes ATAT. Things like reactor management, turns, boosting for speed and shields make titans’s rules really crunchy. Knights totally ignore all that stuff and just zerg you – generally without much hope of success.
Well, certainly not if they nerf the Acastus into uselessness as you're advocating.
I think it's telling that 9/10 people I see claiming the Acastus is some game-breaking horror end up just being generally of the view that Knights don't belong in AT.
I think this is where you need to share your game experiences playing with and against Acastus, rather than just lob junk like that into the conversation.
I think this is where you need to share your game experiences playing with and against Acastus, rather than just lob junk like that into the conversation.
For me, I've used a pair of Acastus Porphyrion knights in a game once. They flattened two squadrons of 2 warhounds, a bunch of Cerastus knights and pummeled a Reaver. They were untouched for the entire game and sat there bombarding everything they could. Me and my opponent agreed to restrict usage and only take one if the other player takes one.
Aside from the boring Knight rule in this game, there can never be a balance between Knights and the current Titans trio. Knights (and watever new things GW/FW made) outgunned, outmatch the decade old Titan that never got a redesign to match the modern technology, because the old players/titan owners might be upset.
All hope lies into the never seen before Titans now, the warmonger is a good start.
I'm not sure of his point either, especially considering how the models in this edition are WAY bigger than the originals. The new Warlock is as big as the old Imperator Titan was. So its hardly as if GW was worried about the original models sold over a decade ago now.
There might be some imbalance between knights and warlords ,but that can be resolved with adjustments to the balance of the game. Purely a numbers thing not a model thing.
He probably means the ridiculous arms race in GW models, always packing more and more guns on ever smaller models, leaving old centrepieces lackluster and weak in comparison.
lord_blackfang wrote: He probably means the ridiculous arms race in GW models, always packing more and more guns on ever smaller models, leaving old centrepieces lackluster and weak in comparison.
Rather than giving new models more weapons, they should focus on giving the existing weapons more punch or unique effects, etc...
JWBS wrote: Still not the Knight battleforce then. Does anyone know the ETA and contents?
Looking at the leaked upcoming releases, reckon we'll see the pre-order annoucement this Sunday
Thanks. They seem to be cutting it pretty close as far as xmas releases go. I can only assume it's the usual under-production problems that have been plaguing them for a long time now. I don't understand it myself. People seem to be getting pretty annoyed at this point, with the Sisters box being the the most obvious recent example.
JWBS wrote: Still not the Knight battleforce then. Does anyone know the ETA and contents?
Looking at the leaked upcoming releases, reckon we'll see the pre-order annoucement this Sunday
Thanks. They seem to be cutting it pretty close as far as xmas releases go. I can only assume it's the usual under-production problems that have been plaguing them for a long time now. I don't understand it myself. People seem to be getting pretty annoyed at this point, with the Sisters box being the the most obvious recent example.
The Knight battleforce would be a Saturday preorder through Games Workshop anyway so it was never going to be today.
The Battleforces should also be available to all retailers. It would make sense if they announced it on Sunday. Monday - retailer pre orders, 30th - general webstore pre orders, december 7th - offcial release, just in time for xmas.
Eh, I kind of wish carapace weapons were restricted to 'light' and 'medium' titan weapons only. So, limited to Warhound weapons and Reaver carapace options. IMO Laser Blaster already skirted the border but gatlings drive right over it while kicking it into a ditch. Why not paired volcano cannons then? Or plasma annihilators? Though, speaking of plasma, funnily enough plasma blastguns are missing despite making very good (and logical) carapace weapon...
Carapace weapons for a bigger class have always been “up to” main weapon on the next size down. So reavers can take warhound main guns as carapace mounts and warlords can take reaver main guns as carapace mounts. This has been the case since Epic Space Marine at least.
My brother made a wonderful Warlord back in the day with two arm-mounted Melta Cannons and two carapace-mounted Gatling Blasters. That was back when it wasn't unusual for a Warlord to mount four different capital weapons (Epic: Space Marine 2nd edition in case anyone was curious.)
I'm faintly annoyed with myself because they have Turbo Lasers out for Warlords now and all I can think is that they're not side-by-side like Imperius Dictatio's are.
Mr_Rose wrote: Carapace weapons for a bigger class have always been “up to” main weapon on the next size down. So reavers can take warhound main guns as carapace mounts and warlords can take reaver main guns as carapace mounts. This has been the case since Epic Space Marine at least.
That technically 'might' have been the case, but it makes very little sense and IMHO should have been changed for AT. Why would anyone mount twin bolter on a Warlord when you can mount paired gatlings? Well, yes, of course, game arbitrarily limits you to X points, but 'in universe' mounting gakky gun when something vastly superior (and lower tech at that, so you don't even have usual excuse 'Forge World Z can't produce it') exists makes no sense.
They already had to put arbitrary bonus on turbolasers because Laser Blasters would make them completely obsolete - if it is because lighter gun is easier to move and aim, and they have problems with such small change as adding one turbolaser barrel, then things like gatlings should be really terrible to move and aim, commanding massive penalties to anything but straight forward fire.
No, however you look at it, realism, verisimilitude, balance, big guns should have no place at all on carapace mounts or command big penalties to aim (and honestly titan movement too, adding something so heavy so high up should make stumbling or being pushed to fall very easy). The missile launchers should be the biggest possible weapon, and even then only because missiles don't need to rely on mount for aiming but do the required maneuvers completely on their own.
Eh, I kind of wish carapace weapons were restricted to 'light' and 'medium' titan weapons only. So, limited to Warhound weapons and Reaver carapace options. IMO Laser Blaster already skirted the border but gatlings drive right over it while kicking it into a ditch. Why not paired volcano cannons then? Or plasma annihilators? Though, speaking of plasma, funnily enough plasma blastguns are missing despite making very good (and logical) carapace weapon...
Well, they are a lighter weapon. The Gatling Blasters are the smaller Reaver version of the weapon and aren't the same as the Macro gatling blasters. You could always put whatever you wanted on the carapace in the older games, even quad plasma destructors if that was what you wanted. Titan couldn't do much else but it melted everything...
As for why you would fit Vulcans over Gatlings, well, the higher rate of fire and exploding 6 mechanic makes them a very worthy alternative at the cost of range. Gatling blasters have a lower rate fo fire but a greater range. Horses for courses...
Irbis wrote: That technically 'might' have been the case, but it makes very little sense and IMHO should have been changed for AT. Why would anyone mount twin bolter on a Warlord when you can mount paired gatlings? /quote] .
Gatling blaster is the worst weapon ever made in this setting period, It carry around 90 round each gun, gun is meh against Titan, and the abysmal ammo count for a rapid fire weapon is counter inuitive and a death sentence in any serious battle. Vulcan Mega Bolter carry at least 14000 round each gun mean it can shoot non-stop for minutes.
In addition, Megabolter ammunition is probably easier to source as it is used by other vehicles, an on Warhounds at least has been shown as a very effective anti-fighter weapon in at least occasion in the lore.
I'm faintly annoyed with myself because they have Turbo Lasers out for Warlords now and all I can think is that they're not side-by-side like Imperius Dictatio's are.
Imperium Dictatio was a Lucius pattern. Mars carapace mounts seem to be vertical compared to the reaver or lucius versions.
I plan to get a set and add them to a titan with a volcano cannon and Gatling arm and name it Mechanicus Dictatio since it is mars pattern
I know it's basically "non-news" since nothing concrete was really shown, but I'm surprised that no one's mentioning AT getting a shout out in the latest Horus Heresy post.
Adeptus Titanicus will also grow, adding new models and campaigns, letting you fight with god-machines in the Age of Darkness.
So at least we do have some confirmation that new stuff (both books and models) are in the works.
I know it'll irritate some AT players but I'm really hoping they prioritize releasing all the extant Knight variants throughout next year. I need some tiny Armigers and Dominuses!
Well spotted Jack. I glanced at the article but not being a 30K player I quickly dismissed it.
I don't think more Knights will hurt the game as long as the rules are sensible. Deep down I was hoping the Acastus would be a hybrid of a Knight and TItan(gameplay wise) as the Knights feel a bit simple compared to the rather "indepth" titans. Having armies of one extreme to the other is a bit tiresome and I think the game would benefit from such units and battle groups. A minimum maniple and lance is the best we have now for a mixed battlegroup.
To make it work as a knight force you need one box of questoris (each squad has to have the same weapons). The fist sprue has a lot of repeats, so this should go along way to cover the force.
Cheap christmast for me(compared to 2 battle boxes last year...). Already have enough knights to get by...But if you are short on knights good deal. I just happen to have 18/8/4 already
Or they didn't have any of those Questoris painted to match the Cerastus & Porphyrion - the box artwork has fist & missile pod (but I'm clutching at straws here)
To make it work as a knight force you need one box of questoris (each squad has to have the same weapons). The fist sprue has a lot of repeats, so this should go along way to cover the force.
Will this box include that sprue? I thought that they would have shown it in the photos, but I just realised that they don't sell the old box w/o the gauntlets anymore, so now I'm thinking that it probably does include that option? The art on the box has the Knight Warden (or Knight with gauntlet, whatever that configuration is called).
I would be very surprised if the set doesn't come with the upgrade sprues. Without them the box contents are worth only £110, and I doubt very much the set will cost any less than £100(GW is obsessed with £100+ products). If its two lots of Thunderstrike Questoris sets included then that becomes £120 and GW is then in a position to sell it as "A box of Cerastus free!".
Besides, including two upgrade sprues will allow for two lances out of the box, with two melee weapons and a rocket pod for each Knight.
To make it work as a knight force you need one box of questoris (each squad has to have the same weapons). The fist sprue has a lot of repeats, so this should go along way to cover the force.
The box is a legal force, but questoris banner had to be freeblde.
Under the heavily restricted (and terrible) knight household rule. 2/3 banner had to be the same type. So the force you get in the box will either be 2 cerastus banner + 1 acastus, or 2 acastus + 1 cerastus, and questoris as freeblade.
SamusDrake wrote: I would be very surprised if the set doesn't come with the upgrade sprues. Without them the box contents are worth only £110, and I doubt very much the set will cost any less than £100(GW is obsessed with £100+ products). If its two lots of Thunderstrike Questoris sets included then that becomes £120 and GW is then in a position to sell it as "A box of Cerastus free!".
Besides, including two upgrade sprues will allow for two lances out of the box, with two melee weapons and a rocket pod for each Knight.
IIRC the leaked release list had this box at $50 cheaper than the other battleforces, which would put it at around £70-75 RRP.
SamusDrake wrote: I would be very surprised if the set doesn't come with the upgrade sprues. Without them the box contents are worth only £110, and I doubt very much the set will cost any less than £100(GW is obsessed with £100+ products). If its two lots of Thunderstrike Questoris sets included then that becomes £120 and GW is then in a position to sell it as "A box of Cerastus free!".
Besides, including two upgrade sprues will allow for two lances out of the box, with two melee weapons and a rocket pod for each Knight.
IIRC the leaked release list had this box at $50 cheaper than the other battleforces, which would put it at around £60-65 RRP.
That would be an incredible 40% discount.
I really hope you're right as that would provide an amazing entry point into AT. For a single player it would provide a strong lance with support or enough for a respectable open-play game for two players. Even if one throws in an upgrade kit on the order, its still a huge saving.
Edit; damn, you've gone for £70-£75. Not as great but still great.
SamusDrake wrote: I would be very surprised if the set doesn't come with the upgrade sprues. Without them the box contents are worth only £110, and I doubt very much the set will cost any less than £100(GW is obsessed with £100+ products). If its two lots of Thunderstrike Questoris sets included then that becomes £120 and GW is then in a position to sell it as "A box of Cerastus free!".
Besides, including two upgrade sprues will allow for two lances out of the box, with two melee weapons and a rocket pod for each Knight.
IIRC the leaked release list had this box at $50 cheaper than the other battleforces, which would put it at around £60-65 RRP.
That would be an incredible 40% discount.
I really hope you're right as that would provide an amazing entry point into AT. For a single player it would provide a strong lance with support or enough for a respectable open-play game for two players. Even if one throws in an upgrade kit on the order, its still a huge saving.
Edit; damn, you've gone for £70-£75. Not as great but still great.
£75 would suit me fine. I've been looking forward to this for a couple of months now, I have plenty Titans because I bought two of the battle force boxes last year, but as yet I have no Knights. I had planned on getting some Acastus and Questoris, but I'm not too keen on the Lancers (I have the 40K scale Archeron and Castigator but the Lancer just doesn't do it for me), and at £100 I may have just skipped this box, given how many Lancers are included. But if it's £75 full rrp I'll definitely buy two boxes.
I was considering picking this up if it had the upgrade sprue, but that's not looking likely. Since I already have 4 Acastus I'll probably only bother if I can sell on the new ones.
Leaked list had $130 for the knight household battleforce, so likely £80 (taking Morathi as comparison point).
Box art cover depicts a knight with a gauntlet and a missile launcher, but the "content" picture doesn't, so unclear as to having an upgrade sprue or not (hoping for one but not holding my breath). Based on the "content" picture, value is £110 (about 27% savings).
Given that the knight set without the missile launchers and power fists is sold out on the webstore I am guessing that we will be getting the upgrade sprue and the older box is being phased out entirely.
Either that or GW are throwing in the last of their stock into the bundle to get rid of them...
The "contents" photo looks more like a photoshop composite from the individual kits product pages. And the only Questoris Knights on the store with the same colour scheme as the others are the ones without the upgrade kit.
I'm faintly annoyed with myself because they have Turbo Lasers out for Warlords now and all I can think is that they're not side-by-side like Imperius Dictatio's are.
Imperium Dictatio was a Lucius pattern. Mars carapace mounts seem to be vertical compared to the reaver or lucius versions.
I plan to get a set and add them to a titan with a volcano cannon and Gatling arm and name it Mechanicus Dictatio since it is mars pattern
With no plans to do Lucius pattern Titans I had way too much pinned on being able to build a Warlord with Turbo Laser Destructors, Volcano Cannon, and Gatling Blaster.
My facebook based kit supplier has been told the following by the GW rep about the Knight Battleforce for those trying to figre out whats actually included from the images
6x Questoris Knights, 4x Ceratus Knights and 2x Acastus Porphyrion Knights, and 2x Questoris Knight upgrade frames
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: My facebook based kit supplier has been told the following by the GW rep about the Knight Battleforce for those trying to figre out whats actually included from the images
6x Questoris Knights, 4x Ceratus Knights and 2x Acastus Porphyrion Knights, and 2x Questoris Knight upgrade frames
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: My facebook based kit supplier has been told the following by the GW rep about the Knight Battleforce for those trying to figre out whats actually included from the images
6x Questoris Knights, 4x Ceratus Knights and 2x Acastus Porphyrion Knights, and 2x Questoris Knight upgrade frames
Did they confirm what the GBP price is?
Yes, 400-30 Adeptus Titanicus Knight Battleforce £80 RRP
Not worked with resin before, but the Forgeworld kits are said to be good quality. The price puts me off though.
Ive used a lot of resin kits, I tend t find that smaller kits with finer details seem to come out worst cast wise. The sculpts look great, but id much prefer to see them in plastic
Not worked with resin before, but the Forgeworld kits are said to be good quality. The price puts me off though.
Ive used a lot of resin kits, I tend t find that smaller kits with finer details seem to come out worst cast wise. The sculpts look great, but id much prefer to see them in plastic
We are still missing the lucius alpha head for the warlord. Would be nice for a third weapons sprue in plastic to cover that, the Gatling and quake arms, and maybe like the support missile racks.
Reaver has the arms covered now, maybe could fit like 3 carapace mounts on one of the little sprues and make an upgrade clampack.
Also want to see these all in 28mm. A full size reaver warp missile would be awesome.
Ive used a lot of resin kits, I tend t find that smaller kits with finer details seem to come out worst cast wise. The sculpts look great, but id much prefer to see them in plastic
Same here, if not just for the Reaver carapace weapons.
Is the knight battle force expected to come with terminals? Or are new knight players expected to buy this, and $50 of cardboard?
It’s still a great deal for those of us looking to add some models to our forces, just not a very good entry point for new players, if those terminals aren’t included...
RobertDD wrote: Is the knight battle force expected to come with terminals? Or are new knight players expected to buy this, and $50 of cardboard?
It’s still a great deal for those of us looking to add some models to our forces, just not a very good entry point for new players, if those terminals aren’t included...
Questoris and Cerastus terminal are up to download for free by GW, only acastus remain, and you can find rule for them everywhere, from GW store, warcom and other blog. you don't need GW cardboard to play the game.
RobertDD wrote: Is the knight battle force expected to come with terminals? Or are new knight players expected to buy this, and $50 of cardboard?
It’s still a great deal for those of us looking to add some models to our forces, just not a very good entry point for new players, if those terminals aren’t included...
The Knights themselves are surprisingly easy to represent terminal wise.
There is only one stat to track(structure/hit points) and that can be done with a D6 or two. After that its just the order dice and maybe a unit number count. If you look on the GW site for the terminals the images practically show all the relevent info, so you only need a single terminals-worth for each type.
For each banner just get a small item( a piece of card or post-it note? ) to put your three dice and counter on and just reference the rules when needed. If only Forgeworld gave it some thought, there is a great opportunity to make a slimmed down version of AT with just the Knights and would serve as a fantastic expansion for AT itself. But that is for another discussion altogether.
NOTE: Pringles lid! They are large enough to hold the dice and counter.
RobertDD wrote: Is the knight battle force expected to come with terminals? Or are new knight players expected to buy this, and $50 of cardboard?
It’s still a great deal for those of us looking to add some models to our forces, just not a very good entry point for new players, if those terminals aren’t included...
Questoris and Cerastus terminal are up to download for free by GW, only acastus remain, and you can find rule for them everywhere, from GW store, warcom and other blog. you don't need GW cardboard to play the game.
SamusDrake wrote:
RobertDD wrote: Is the knight battle force expected to come with terminals? Or are new knight players expected to buy this, and $50 of cardboard?
It’s still a great deal for those of us looking to add some models to our forces, just not a very good entry point for new players, if those terminals aren’t included...
The Knights themselves are surprisingly easy to represent terminal wise.
There is only one stat to track(structure/hit points) and that can be done with a D6 or two. After that its just the order dice and maybe a unit number count. If you look on the GW site for the terminals the images practically show all the relevent info, so you only need a single terminals-worth for each type.
For each banner just get a small item( a piece of card or post-it note? ) to put your three dice and counter on and just reference the rules when needed. If only Forgeworld gave it some thought, there is a great opportunity to make a slimmed down version of AT with just the Knights and would serve as a fantastic expansion for AT itself. But that is for another discussion altogether.
NOTE: Pringles lid! They are large enough to hold the dice and counter.
The print & play route may be interesting to some, but I think most people will want the stuff that comes with the game. Keeping track of multiple titans/knight banners on a single terminal is clever. That may work! The dice thing is not a bad idea either. Unfortunately, Gw only sells the terminals in packs of 5. It’s certainly true that knights require less tracking than titans.
In addition to the terminals, one would also need the Doom of Moloch book to play with this. And the rules set, of course.
Last year’s Titan Battlegroup box for $170 seems like it was a much better entree point for first-timers. The knight battle group is a great value for someone looking to add knights to their existing forces.
Thats a good point you make about last years Titan battlegroup set because it is indeed a perfect match for the contents in the ruleset.
Sadly, while the terminals are well done they are the game's hidden cost along with the weapon cards. I'd treat myself to another pair of hounds but then its the additional cost of another set of terminals...
Well the rules set has considerably more stuff than the contents of the battleforce, but whatever.
You really shouldn’t need a terminal for each knight banner. It would make more sense just to have a damage track per banner and the weapon rules and stats separately.
That’s actually a pretty good saving. In Oz it’s $220, normally $350 if bought separately.
So a question from someone who has never played the game and doesn’t know the rules, is this pretty much a complete force of Knights? Or would you expect a to be expanding it down the track?
I’m tempted as it seems a good deal, but not so much if it’s only a small force compared to what people actually use in games.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: That’s actually a pretty good saving. In Oz it’s $220, normally $350 if bought separately.
So a question from someone who has never played the game and doesn’t know the rules, is this pretty much a complete force of Knights? Or would you expect a to be expanding it down the track?
I’m tempted as it seems a good deal, but not so much if it’s only a small force compared to what people actually use in games.
It's a legal kniight household force. But all the household banner is at half strength. And you can't take all of them as a single household (nice rule), 1 type of knight will have to be freeblade.
And playing a knight household force atm isn't exactly a funn experience.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: So if a new player bought this, what would you be expecting them to buy afterwards to make it a more complete and capable force?
Probably buy that box now and wait in 2020 for more knight pattern. (and a revised knight household rule maybe). Right now they remain an important strategic choice for any Titan list, but aren't that great on their own. As a titan support unit, they are small, nimble and can move anywhere they want. However, as a Knight household, they're forced to lump together, which completely dismissed their advantage.
Unless you're spamming only acastus, which is pure shooting and doesn't care about being lumped together.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: That’s actually a pretty good saving. In Oz it’s $220, normally $350 if bought separately.
So a question from someone who has never played the game and doesn’t know the rules, is this pretty much a complete force of Knights? Or would you expect a to be expanding it down the track?
I’m tempted as it seems a good deal, but not so much if it’s only a small force compared to what people actually use in games.
Technically, yes. A minimum Knight household is but a single lance of three banners and so the two Acastus and a pair of Cerastus is all that is needed to meet that requirement. There is actually just enough to form two lances but thats stretching it too thin.
But as with any wargame, AT depends on the point budget of the game you are playing. The boxset provides about 900 points, depending on how you arm the Questoris. However, the Acastus are more powerful than their points cost suggests so they could be updated in the future, possibly bumping up that total to 1,000 points.
Don't forget that adding titan support is allowed(sigh, its on page 6 of Doom of Molech), so a pair of warhounds would be ideal at 480 points.
So is 1500pts roughly what people like to play? For reference, can anyone share a ballpark points cost for the warlord and reaver?
I’m thinking I’ll pass, even though it saves $130 compared to buyin separately, I still need the rules and if I buy a box of warhounds on top of that, that brings the total to over $400AUD, a pretty big price tag for only having one half of a game.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: So is 1500pts roughly what people like to play? For reference, can anyone share a ballpark points cost for the warlord and reaver?
I’m thinking I’ll pass, even though it saves $130 compared to buyin separately, I still need the rules and if I buy a box of warhounds on top of that, that brings the total to over $400AUD, a pretty big price tag for only having one half of a game.
Fully armed a Warlord is about 500 pts, a Reaver 330 pts and a Warhound is 240 pts. It depends on who you are playing but 1,000 to 1,500 points is ideal when starting out. Either side of that you have people who either cannot afford the game or very serious players. So the ruleset + titan battlegroup boxset is a perfect start(about 1,200 points), as the ruleset contains all you need for the 4 titans.
For your situation(Australian prices are too damn high!) I would do $318 for the rules + 4 Warhounds. Thats a medium luperical maniple(getting close to 1000 points) and I'm sure another player would be willing to either downsize their force or even let you use some of their models to balance things out.
Now, here is the thing about the Warhound sets - they have lots of left over pieces including Carapaces, heads and shin-plates, and you'll only be using 4 of the 8 weapons that are included. With basic plasticard skills I was able to DIY a third hound from my kit and with even greater skill with casting could have done a better job and even squeezed out a fourth hound! If you have a friend with a 3D printer...they could help you out here. This means that you could have as many as 8 warhounds for the price of 4. In 40K, there are many players who will make their own Titans from scratch instead of purchasing a Forgeworld kit, and so there is plenty of reference to go on...
AllSeeingSkink wrote: So is 1500pts roughly what people like to play? For reference, can anyone share a ballpark points cost for the warlord and reaver?
I’m thinking I’ll pass, even though it saves $130 compared to buyin separately, I still need the rules and if I buy a box of warhounds on top of that, that brings the total to over $400AUD, a pretty big price tag for only having one half of a game.
Fully armed a Warlord is about 500 pts, a Reaver 330 pts and a Warhound is 240 pts. It depends on who you are playing but 1,000 to 1,500 points is ideal when starting out. Either side of that you have people who either cannot afford the game or very serious players. So the ruleset + titan battlegroup boxset is a perfect start(about 1,200 points), as the ruleset contains all you need for the 4 titans.
For your situation(Australian prices are too damn high!) I would do $318 for the rules + 4 Warhounds. Thats a medium luperical maniple(getting close to 1000 points) and I'm sure another player would be willing to either downsize their force or even let you use some of their models to balance things out.
Now, here is the thing about the Warhound sets - they have lots of left over pieces including Carapaces, heads and shin-plates, and you'll only be using 4 of the 8 weapons that are included. With basic plasticard skills I was able to DIY a third hound from my kit and with even greater skill with casting could have done a better job and even squeezed out a fourth hound! If you have a friend with a 3D printer...they could help you out here. This means that you could have as many as 8 warhounds for the price of 4. In 40K, there are many players who will make their own Titans from scratch instead of purchasing a Forgeworld kit, and so there is plenty of reference to go on...
Hope this helps!
All good advice. The 1000-1500 pts range is the game size I've mostly played too, although you can go smaller, down to 750pts or thereabouts.
AllSeeingSkink, bear in mind that AT was primarily intended as a game about Titans, with Knights as an interesting support choice (GW's obsession with Knight armies this year notwithstanding). Much like Battlefleet Gothic, you don't need as many models as you might think. You can have a decent game of AT with just three units per side, or even two. Titans can take a lot of punishment thanks to their shields--no wiping the opponent off the board in Turn 1 here. (Well, unless you spam Acastus. But let's not get into that again...)
I think of Reavers as cruisers / ships of the line. Warhounds are light cruisers. Warlords are battleships. Knights are piddly escort vessels. Acastus are Polly Pocket Death Stars.
As a fellow Aussie suffering from antipodean deployment expenses, I started out with the Rules Set and aimed to slowly collect the minimum needed for a Venator maniple. That's one Reaver Titan and a pair of Warhounds--slightly cheaper than the two pairs of Warhounds suggested by SamusDrake. It's not as many points, but it gives more variety, feels like you have a 'command' unit (the Reaver) with more staying power, and is easy to expand to a full Venator by adding another pair of Warhounds down the track. Also, the rules for the Venator are in the core rulebook, whereas the Lupercal is in the Titandeath supplement--it's full of cool stuff, but you may not yet want to invest in that. (Fair enough, all you'd need to see is the special rule for the maniple... but that's impossible without, um, some kind of futuristic information superhighway or something, I guess.)
Of course, a better option would be the Rules Set plus Titan Battlegroup if you can find it at a discount. I managed to effectively get a Warlord for free. The Titan Battlegroup box is the best value set in all Titanicus and a great way to get new players into the game. Naturally GW seems to have discontinued it.
The Rules Set contains enough accessories for two players... just. There will be a few annoyances, like having to refer to the book instead of the cards for Strategems and mission objectives.
You can also use the Rules Set with old Epic Titans if you like, to try out the rules. Some things may be a bit fiddly due to the smaller size of the Epic models, but the game should work in most respects.
Also keep in mind that the rules include handicap mechanisms to (theoretically) compensate for any imbalance in points between two opposing forces.
When I first assembled my models, I blu-tacked the Reaver's armour plates on, and did the same for the Warhounds' weapons. That way I could play a few games to see if it was fun (it was) before I bothered painting the models or collecting more.
At Aussie prices, I would avoid the big Warlord unless you can find it at a hefty discount. I got hold of one for the local price of a Reaver, and another in the Titan Battlegroup. Eventually I caved in and bought the Warlord weapon sprues direct from GW to equip the big boys with interchangeable loadouts. It hurt my wallet, but since I had assembled my Warlords by then, I knew I'd magnetise the weapons the moment they turned up in the mailbox and use them on the table ASAP. Which I did. I've bought plenty of more sensibly priced things that ended up collecting dust in a cupboard for years.
For terrain, at minimum, I'd suggest at least one feature big enough to completely block line of sight to and from a Warlord, and a few that can hide a Warhound (they'll come up to a Reaver's waist and give it some shelter too).
Getting back to future developments that may affect us in the future... where are our Chaos Titans? C'mon, it's just one new armour sprue per Titan. And why does Aeronautica get Orks but not AT? Kick off with mirrored factions to keep resources low, fine, sensible choice, but I'm not quite sure why FW seems intent on inventing new Titans for the Loyalists and Traitors when they could introduce Gargants and Phantom Titans and pull in a whole new host of players who wouldn't be caught dead driving humie robots.
Of course, a better option would be the Rules Set plus Titan Battlegroup if you can find it at a discount. I managed to effectively get a Warlord for free. The Titan Battlegroup box is the best value set in all Titanicus and a great way to get new players into the game. Naturally GW seems to have discontinued it.
Good news, the GM edition is very much still available due to a reprint. All of the online UK retailers that I peruse (3 of them) have multiple copies available, so I assume they're getting restocked on an ongoing basis.
Personally for value I prefer the AT xmas boxes. These, however, are all oop.
Oh, yes a Venator maniple is definitely recommended, but in hindsight would recommend the melta'n'chainfist variant as a starting point - simply because the meltagun is friggin nasty when up close, while the volcano cannon allows it to punch hard. The twin laser carapace weapon is quite good too, and will take the titan to 330 points(or was that with the Chainfist? Urgh! Canny remember!).
For what its worth, I too slowly built up to the minimum Venator and rule set. In the mean time my brother and I used some Questoris and Cerastus in games of Horizon Wars, until we got to that point.
One frustrating thing about AT is a lack of small-scale "skirmish" mode of play. Working together with my brother and through much play testing, we found that AT can be played in a Kill Team style fashion where a Titan or Scion leads a bunch of Knights in a group with a 400 point limit( we sadly don't own a Warlord to play test it ) and honestly it works really well. The only comprimise with the core game is having markers on the table instead of the terminals, as each Knight is no longer bound to banner formation - in other words they can go walkies, but still bound to their Scion or Titan for shake tests should a group member get destroyed. Such a mode of play would need its own set of strategems but would be fewer anyway. Under the fluff of "last survivors towards the end of the Heresy", it would make a good expansion book or for Titanicus 2.0 whenever that comes. Or even White Dwarf...
On the other hand, there is talk of a forthcoming scout titan- the "rapier" that is below the Warhound, and another battle titan inbetween the hound and reaver. So hopefully AT will become more accessable and lower-point games more common.
Of course, a better option would be the Rules Set plus Titan Battlegroup if you can find it at a discount. I managed to effectively get a Warlord for free. The Titan Battlegroup box is the best value set in all Titanicus and a great way to get new players into the game. Naturally GW seems to have discontinued it.
Good news, the GM edition is very much still available due to a reprint. All of the online UK retailers that I peruse (3 of them) have multiple copies available, so I assume they're getting restocked on an ongoing basis.
Personally for value I prefer the AT xmas boxes. These, however, are all oop.
Sadly, its not avaliable for Australia. That said, I think that would be getting on for about...$350 for Australia? The tragic thing about that set is that despite having two Warlords, it doesn't have enough for a minimum maniple.
Thanks for the advice, everyone! It’s been quite helpful, not knowing the rules or how the game plays makes it hard to know where to start.
So I think I’ll forego the Knight battlegroup and look for some discount titans instead. It’s a shame GW only did limited runs of the grouped sets, they would have made the price much more bearable.
Well the knight box isnt' that bad for alongside titans and indeed works nicely for it. It has full banner of questors, full lancer and half a poryphonion. Not too much of any to use with titans and all have purpose to be done. You'll likely end up with that in the end anyway...
Has anyone seen the Knight Household Battleforce for sale online in the USA? I was thinking of picking one up with the additional 15% discount but unlike the Titan Battleforce, it doesn't seem like ebay is flooded with product this time around.
It is a limited release. The online retailer that I usually use got 50, on the weekend, and the available total counted down to 45 and then didn't update further. When I checked again on Monday morning they were sold out. I got one from somewhere else. I imagine they're mostly gone now.
SamusDrake wrote: Sadly none that I am aware of. What retailers do you usually use?
Miniatures Market and eBay in the USA. Miniatures Market has most of the other seasonal boxed sets, just not the Knight Household. There was actually a guy in Australia of all places selling them for a discount when I checked the other day. It's just a little strange since last year I was able to pick up 2 of the Titan Battlegroups, one from eBay and one from Miniatures Market. Just thought I'd be able to do the same for the Knight Household; which is enough of a value to warrant purchasing even without the additional 15% online discount.
Its a shame you can't do it through the UK because Wayland have it at 20% discount, but the import tax for the US would probably kill that.
That said, Miniatures Market might get it in the new year as the US has been known to get things in slightly later than we do in the UK, and even here we've had long shortages of essential items like the Command Terminals and Weapon sprues(it was a long time before I could obtain the Reaver Melta upgrade).
Got my new questoris knight and the upgrade sprue is much smaller than I thought, it's 1/4 the size of a normal sprue, which is even smaller than the sprue in AI.
Now if only the upgrade sprue is bigger( like AI kit, same price, double the size), this could easily squeeze in more bits, like left side guns, banner, base decor, more head, knight preceptor/chaos knight weapons. ......
Having two more of each gun, and 3 more chainswords would have been a better option. The gauntlets are actually nice, but they offer nothing new to the game - and the game should really come first. The new heads at least mark a High Scion or Senechal.
Also something I just noticed now from the back of the box is that this is the prototype version of the knights, featuring a much much better gatling cannon with barrels, and a more accurate gun central axis. From the close up shot of the gatling gun in the box you can see clearly these are detail and not paint job effect.
Can't believe they ran out of space for a tiny "gatling gun cap" bit. shame. Drilling barrels on this gun had been a real pain.
Seeing that community picture is welcome, and for a moment recalls last August when Titanicus seemed like the "Rolls Royce" of the 40K library of games. As grand as its scale is, each one of our Titans feels more of a character than the champions featured in the usual 40K games, and not because of their backstory but because of the gameplay itself, and that is quite an achievement for a tabletop wargame.
Cerastus upgrades, the Asterius, the "Rapier" scout titan, Battle of Calth.
Beyond that the game's future is a mystery.
Anyone got a pic of the Rapier scout titan? I googled it and there was one with 2 claws and a scorpion tail, with a heavy stubber looking gun on the end.
Any modern concept art of it?
I also read on here something about the Warbringer maybe?
Its only been mentioned in text so far iirc. Unfortunately none of it was very descriptive, other than its a small scout class Titan.
The claws and scorpion tail thing sounds like one of the old Epic Slanneshi scout Titans. Its quite possible that GW may use that as the inspiration for a non chaos corrupted precursor machine(FW have done this with the Mechanicum flying drone). But so far that's just speculation.
SamusDrake wrote: Apparently the Rapier was briefly mentioned in the Titandeath novel.
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Nurglitch wrote: Maybe like a close-combat version of a Warhound?
It could well be as the Warhound is the only titan to lack a proper melee weapon. I'd assume it would be faster and maybe a countermeasure to knights.
Or as a sort of scout/recon unit for the Legions. The Warhound is a scout, but also a pack hunter/ambush predator, designed to take on other titans as needed. Something with lighter weapons, enough to deal with non-titanic targets, and lighter armor but faster with better sensors and communications gear to trailblaze and spy for the legion, perhaps even serve as spotters for ranged support titans like the Nemesis Warbringer and Warmonger Emperor.
I'm hoping the Warbringer Nemesis is under work, with some new carapace guns. It could get by with just a single set of arm weapons since it shares with the reaver, but it would be great if they added some new carapace mounts besides just the quake cannon artillery. It would be cool to see more exotic weapons for it, like a Sonic cannon (already on the ordinatus) or a massive plasma mortar, like a Sunfury crossed with the Hellex mortar off the Thanatar.
The Warbringer seems like the next logical choice, with the 40K kit as a guide and sharing weapons with the reaver, but apparently it is still a long way off.
The Rapier was definately a recon orientated Titan. The Warbringer is a likely candidate to be released alongside Calth because Legio Suturvora possessed 6(5?) of them.
SamusDrake wrote:The Warbringer seems like the next logical choice, with the 40K kit as a guide and sharing weapons with the reaver, but apparently it is still a long way off.
Agreed. They just need to reduce the size and tool into plastic. Also, alongside, I reckon we'll see the Cerastus upgrade sprue as well. And that just leaves the remaining Knights such as the Asterios, Atropos and the like to be produced. They did say those were going to be resin, but that was just after Titanicus was released and I reckon they'll be shifted to plastic due to how well the game has sold so far. I also reckon a ruined terrain sprue is in production as well.
schoon wrote:...and I suspect that the gap in Titanicus releases is due to something being done in plastic. And we all know that means about a year of lead time.
I also reckon they're working on the next big release which is hoovering up a lot of resources. My current guess is they're working on either Battlefleet Heresy or a new 30k Heresy starter set.
IIRC, someone from the studio clarified at an event that Legio Audax isn't limited to Warhound Titans...they're limited to SCOUT Titans. This is, to my knowledge, a slight retcon of what was presented in Betrayer and other places we've had glimpses of Audax.
This was interesting to me for a couple reasons. First, it suggests that they've been thinking about Audax, which makes sense if the 'Calth' book covers elements of the greater Shadow Crusade. That's the most logical place for them to receive their treatment. Second, the Rapier is a Scout Titan. Therefore, I think it's possible that we'll get the Rapier alongside the next book with Audax rules pushing people to buy LOTS of them. Maybe that's wishful thinking on my part, but that feels like the way GW rolls.
I think the Warbringer is also a solid bet, mind you. They supposedly had SIX new chassis in development, so getting two new Titans early in 2020 isn't unreasonable, even if it seems like a huge bounty to starved Legio players.
Interesting line of thinking – certainly makes sense.
Talking of Scout Titans, the only ones we saw prior to mention of the Rapier were the old Slaaneshi Questor and Subjugator Daemon Engines. I wonder if we'll see some nods to their design in the Rapier, in the same way as the 40k-scale HH range is releasing non-corrupted versions of things like the Greater BLight Drone etc.
I recall one of the designers talking much earlier in AT's life about the fact taht doing the Imperial versions of demon infested titans was something they were interested in doing with the game. It also lets them stretch out the "Imperial only" period of AT by adding more titan types and variations to the game.
It also means that they can vary how they do Chaos Titans in the future. Eg right now they make the frame of most titans (at least bigger ones) be on its own sprue so that they can, in theory, cast them on their own and then cast up a separate "chaos armour and weapons" sprue later.
Of course it depends how they tackle chaos titans - some are just titans with warped armour and weapons; others are fully warped with flesh legs and such.
Overread wrote: I recall one of the designers talking much earlier in AT's life about the fact taht doing the Imperial versions of demon infested titans was something they were interested in doing with the game. It also lets them stretch out the "Imperial only" period of AT by adding more titan types and variations to the game.
I can't find the reference, but I'm pretty sure that another campaign setting was mentioned at a seminar at one point early this year, and that the old fluff for that battle mentioned it being an early encounter with deamon armies. With a mild retcon, they could position that battle as the first encounter with daemonic Titans, and there you go. And heck, if there are daemon Titans, it might be a good place to introduce Ordo Sinister as an adversary. Just speculating.
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Apologist wrote: Interesting line of thinking – certainly makes sense.
Talking of Scout Titans, the only ones we saw prior to mention of the Rapier were the old Slaaneshi Questor and Subjugator Daemon Engines. I wonder if we'll see some nods to their design in the Rapier, in the same way as the 40k-scale HH range is releasing non-corrupted versions of things like the Greater BLight Drone etc.
I think it'll be a surprise if the Rapier isn't the conceptual predecessor to those old Slaaneshi engines.
I'm probably just wishing too hard about the timing, etc. though.
I have a personal theory that the "no immediate plans" to release the Warbringer are because it's going to be used as part of an expansion which adds the aircraft from Aeronautica Imperialis.
One of the Warbringers notable armaments is it's defense array which contains two flak turrets. Additionally Games Workshop, despite saying otherwise, are clearly thinking about Epic in some capacity or they wouldn't have made AI in the same scale as AT.
As it stands the increase in scale of AI really does the game no favors (the increased detail isn't really necessary and the game now likely requires more playing space), with the sole obvious benefit being that it can be generate cross-range sales in AT and if AI were to completely flop then the range could wholesale be folded into AT.
Just think, they could release a campaign book, the Warbringer, new non-hex stands for the planes, and another Questoris upgrade kit with extra arm weapons and Icarus Autocannons.
Nice find on the beamers. If only I'd magnetized my Acastus arms there and not at the shoulder...
Regarding an AT/AI mashup...that would seem to go against everything they've said at every seminar about AT being its own thing and focused solely on Titan battles. Anything's possible, but they seem pretty entrenched on that.
gorgon wrote: Nice find on the beamers. If only I'd magnetized my Acastus arms there and not at the shoulder...
Regarding an AT/AI mashup...that would seem to go against everything they've said at every seminar about AT being its own thing and focused solely on Titan battles. Anything's possible, but they seem pretty entrenched on that.
They can have new rule set for the big battles with titans, aircraft and other elements. It could be even named something like...ummmm...epic?
It's not like you can't use same models in multiple game systems. Or is somebody coming to burn your models if you dare to use same model in kill team and warhammer 40k
It's not like you can't use same models in multiple game systems. Or is somebody coming to burn your models if you dare to use same model in kill team and warhammer 40k
gorgon wrote: Nice find on the beamers. If only I'd magnetized my Acastus arms there and not at the shoulder...
Regarding an AT/AI mashup...that would seem to go against everything they've said at every seminar about AT being its own thing and focused solely on Titan battles. Anything's possible, but they seem pretty entrenched on that.
They can have new rule set for the big battles with titans, aircraft and other elements. It could be even named something like...ummmm...epic?
It's not like you can't use same models in multiple game systems. Or is somebody coming to burn your models if you dare to use same model in kill team and warhammer 40k
Epic would be a different game system though, and not an AT supplement per the designers. So your comment there really isn't on point.
gorgon wrote:Nice find on the beamers. If only I'd magnetized my Acastus arms there and not at the shoulder...
Yeah, I didn't notice it until after posting since I haven't built my Acastus' yet, but the connection points are completely different. I honestly will probably just wait for the official GW upgrade/kit since it'll likely use a matching connection point which will make magnetizing easier.
gorgon wrote:Regarding an AT/AI mashup...that would seem to go against everything they've said at every seminar about AT being its own thing and focused solely on Titan battles. Anything's possible, but they seem pretty entrenched on that.
They say that but they've arguably already gone somewhat against that with the Knight House lists in Molech. While you can make the argument that Knights are just "Titan infantry" (even being referred to at times as Knight Titans), they have much simpler mechanics than actual Titans and a banner of Questoris feels significantly more different than any comparison between a Warhound, Reaver, and Warlord in my experience.
Additionally, and since I have no proof of this I want to stress that it's only my supposition, I feel as though the Knight's inclusion (beyond fitting visually with true god engines) is that it gives the weaker Titan weapon systems a use beyond just quickly stripping void shields. Hence why in the core rules Knights were referred to as "Support Banners" and "Household Support".
More specifically relevant to why it would make sense to add flyers is that The Warbringer is unique for two reasons: 1) being the only currently seen artillery titan and 2) being the only current titan with an anti-air defense weapon system. Sure they could replace the Anvillus batteries with some other armament and I doubt anyone would cry, it does feel like a bit of a loss in my opinion.
Additionally I'm not talking about the flyers playing as if they were still in Aeronautica, rather I imagine they'd be heavily simplified and operate more akin to flying Support Banners. This would add an additional element of strategy to AT since you need to bring some form for anti-air and also gives a counter to leaving massive guns unprotected on the backline which could become a concern with Warbringers if they can fire out of LoS. All of which still doesn't detract from Titans as the "stars" of the show.
Again though, I have no real inside knowledge and could be completely wrong. It just feels like there are a lot of dots lining up in a way that's too convenient to outright dismiss.
Cyrixiinus wrote:Besides, future proofing for something isn't the same as actively planning for something.
But future proofing is by it's very nature an exercise in planning for a potential forthcoming state. Yes, I know it doesn't mean there's a secret manuscript in a vault at Nottingham titled "Epic 2020", but based on studio comments about how they've visually tested down scaled 3D prints internally and made the AI planes to scale with the AT Titans, clearly some brain power was committed to a possible future Epic. Otherwise they would have picked arbitrary sizes for each separate 40k microscale game based on whatever was most mechanically practical for that system.
And I do want to clarify that my theory of adding planes to AT is NOT me theorizing the release of Epic. Rather, as I detailed above, I think adding planes as "flying support units" would allow GW to add specific anti-air weapons to AT and also expand the layers of strategy in the game. Especially with a future artillery Titan making turtling a concern.
tneva82 wrote:They can have new rule set for the big battles with titans, aircraft and other elements. It could be even named something like...ummmm...epic?
It's not like you can't use same models in multiple game systems. Or is somebody coming to burn your models if you dare to use same model in kill team and warhammer 40k
Nurglitch wrote:Mind you, the rules for Apocalypse are out there already...
As detailed above, I'm not talking about Epic or Apocalypse where you have infantry all the way up to Titans, just the addition of simplified flyers as an added support element to AT. Otherwise you have a forthcoming titan with two Anvillus batteries and nothing to shoot, not to mention the missing Knight anti-air weapons (which I will concede could just be ignored like the Las Impulsor and Laser Destructor).
Besides potential future proofing for a Com in ed arms game, I can think of a few reasons to scale both the titans and planes in 8mm.
Similarity of the work. AT scale is different from 40k scale, with specific considerations for both design details and sprue development and layout. Adding a third, incompatible Le s ale would need a different skill set than using 8mm when there is no need for the scales to be incompatible
Second, using the same scale means digital elements can be shared across models, for things like weapon barrels, decorative elements, ect.
Third, making them the same scale allows for hobby intercompatability, things like using AT buildings as scenery for an AI game or diorama, or Planes decorating an airfield the titans are fighting over, even without gaming rules.
Alpharius wrote: The Grot in the Grot Bomb marches up nicely in scale with an old Epic Gretchin...
Then the old Epic Grots must have been way oversized. The Grot in the Bommers are pretty big, too big to be 6mm scale to my eye, they're about 5mm tall when seated, probably more like 6mm when standing, and they should be shorter than a regular human.
Old Epic scale was pretty awfully inconsistent, Marines were tiny, from memory shorter than 6mm, other models were massive, closer to or even bigger than 7mm. Vehicles were often more like 3 or 4mm. When it's stated that Epic was 6mm, that was more of a rough approximation than a rule.
1) The Arioch power claw bit comes with a VMB that has no representation in the game. The AA turrets can easily be the same.
2) The FW model is specifically a Warbringer Nemesis...for 30K/40K. We may not get that variant for AT. Other Warbringers may have different loadouts.
3) Seems like a stretch to suggest that the Warbringer's introduction has to be related to secondary AA turrets on a Titan bristling with much bigger guns.
I don't think so - the warbringers primary gun is clearly artillery based, but those two side guns are big anti-air weapons. You don't overlook those so easily.
That said it might appear with those side guns ages before they actually add air units into AT if they ever do.
And other Warbringer variants may have different armaments there. I just don't think their reason for including a Warbringer chassis in AT will be because those little turrets set up air units in a game that they keep professing will only ever include Titans. To me, that's making multiple leaps. *shrug*
gorgon wrote: they keep professing will only ever include Titans.
You are talking about company that flat out denied any plans of redoing space hulk week before announcing. At which point it's been in work months
GW never hints about big future releases. They want you paying attention and buying what they are doing now, not what might come in years to pass. It's actually abnormal for GW to have announced the Old World so far in advance, though even then they've given no other details as to the game besides general "It's like Horus Heresy"
I also think that when GW is experimenting with an idea or isn't sure themselves they don't say what "might" be on the table. I appreciate that as there is nothing more annoying than a company that keeps hinting and promising stuff that never comes to pass (Spartan Games used to do this at lot and it was very frustrating to think that they were working on something that then never came to be). GW plays their cards close. That said I think many believe that if AT keeps selling well then there is every chance that GW will continue to expand it. Adding chaos warped titan kits; Chaos Demons and fully corrupted titans; adding Xenos Titans and then perhaps an Epic revival. It might also hinge on AN doing well too and if both titans and planes do well then there's every chance GW might dip their toes into some ground units. Heck by then they'll have buildings, plants, titans and military installations/bunkers/turrets aplenty.
Wow, those are some fantastic conversions, glad I saw them before I start to build my knight battleforce. Never would have thought to turn the Ambot into a Titan!
I personally would just use new Knights, Titans, and Aeronautica planes along with either Troublemaker or Vanguard troops/vehicles and play with the Epic Armageddon ruleset. It's a perfectly good ruleset to play Epic, unless you really love old Space Marine. No need to repeat 30 year old history and shoehorn vehicles and ground troops into the Titanicus rules.
If you are a stickler for GW product only and hate third party stuff because it's not accurately sculpted enough, it's easy to get infantry and vehicles on Ebay.
I do reckon though, that the points, stats and prices of the Epic: Armageddon titans were definitely scaled in line with the (relatively) tiny models. I’d like to see them improved a little, if I was using AT models.
But what I really want is the old classic weapons back for AT. You know, Corvus Assault Pods, Harpoon Launchers, the Barrage Missile Launcher, that sort of thing…
Maybe a new generic Warlord Terminal that includes a Carapace Landing Pad instead of the carapace guns?
Or the stripped down Night Gaunt body that omits the carapace weapons entirely in favour of better speed and turns…
More weapons will probably come with any new Titan kits. Hopefully if the Warbringer is any indication, classes of a similar size will have (some)compatible mounts.
This was posted by Vogon on Bolter and Chainsword who was at the open day yesterday and spoke to people there:
There will be new Adeptus Titanicus stuff coming out soon - check the community website in a couple of weeks.
They will be going Warhound size Ursus Claws. Now they have all the core weapons they will be able to make the more esoteric stuff. While chatting they dropped serious hints about a book covering the shadow crusade in Ultramar and the legions involved.
Sounds good. IIRC there are a few Legio's involved in the Shadow Crusade that are still just names, and getting tempted by new colour schemes is always fun
AegisGrimm wrote: I personally would just use new Knights, Titans, and Aeronautica planes along with either Troublemaker or Vanguard troops/vehicles and play with the Epic Armageddon ruleset. It's a perfectly good ruleset to play Epic, unless you really love old Space Marine. No need to repeat 30 year old history and shoehorn vehicles and ground troops into the Titanicus rules.
If you are a stickler for GW product only and hate third party stuff because it's not accurately sculpted enough, it's easy to get infantry and vehicles on Ebay.
You can also use the new Armegeddon rules which work well for this scale of battle
ImAGeek wrote: This was posted by Vogon on Bolter and Chainsword who was at the open day yesterday and spoke to people there:
There will be new Adeptus Titanicus stuff coming out soon - check the community website in a couple of weeks.
They will be going Warhound size Ursus Claws. Now they have all the core weapons they will be able to make the more esoteric stuff. While chatting they dropped serious hints about a book covering the shadow crusade in Ultramar and the legions involved.
Bring on the weird weapons and titans! Please don't just be FW stuff though, I can't justify $40 for two guns, fortunately I have an extensive bits box to make most of their current stuff myself.
In other news I discovered that you can make a passable model for the Knight Valiant using the Questoris and Cerastus kits seeing as I doubt we will be seeing an official model for it any time soon...
Now if 
