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April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:06:34


Post by: BaconCatBug


https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/

Have fun digging and finding the juiciest nuggets.

Rotate Ion Shields Nerfed! Mob Up Nerfed! You can FLY in the Charge Phase again!

Doesn't seem to be any points changes I can see though. :(

PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs

These can only be found in this document here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/warhammer_40000_update_April_2019_en.pdf At the time of writing this document does not show up on the main FAQ portal.

Kind of frustrating that GW can't even do errata right.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:14:43


Post by: Apple Peel


Damn! Now there is now way to get hot-shot lasguns into rapid fire range!


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:17:02


Post by: onlyroad


The predicted nerf to Doom/Jinx/Reveal and the like working only on Craftworld units is there. I'm predicting that Guard/Knight soup will be absolutely dominating (ITC) tournaments with Ynnari being nerfed to the ground, and Skyweaver spam being dead.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:19:00


Post by: Wayniac


Note not everything new is in magenta. Oblits are back to 115 points (its not in magenta). No changes to CP batteries that I can see.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:19:46


Post by: Reemule


Biggest change is the 4++ for knights.

I think this changes from having 1 knight with a 3++ to having 2 knights with a 4++.

Mental Onslaught NERFED! That is huge also.

Castellan again unchanged... Wait It looks like it went up by 100.

Castellan for sale!


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:23:09


Post by: Chris521


Reemule wrote:
Biggest change is the 4++ for knights.



Castellan again unchanged, Cause people who thought it was are still bad at this game.


Pretty sure it went up 100 points with the weapons


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:23:25


Post by: Galef


No 3++ for Knights in general IS a change to the Castellan, so that's good.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:24:31


Post by: skchsan


The FAQ is surprisingly good.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:26:38


Post by: Reemule


 Chris521 wrote:
Reemule wrote:
Biggest change is the 4++ for knights.



Castellan again unchanged, Cause people who thought it was are still bad at this game.


Pretty sure it went up 100 points with the weapons


I don't see that in the IK Erratta where it would be. Just No more 3++, Death grip nerfed, Sancristan Forge changed but still sucks. Where are you seeing this change?


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:27:20


Post by: Galas


Q3) Are the Daemon Prince datasheet from Codex: Chaos Space
Marines, the Daemon Prince of Chaos datasheet from Codex:
Chaos Daemons, the Daemon Prince of Nurgle datasheet from
Codex: Death Guard, and the Daemon Prince of Tzeentch
datasheet from Codex: Thousand Sons all considered different
datasheets for the purposes of the Organised Events guidelines?
A3) No. For the purposes of these guidelines all these
datasheets are all considered to be the same.


Goodbye 9 demon princes!


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:28:26


Post by: stormcraft


Not a single buff for gk, instead 2++ gmndk nerf and not bolter disciplice for land raiders anymore..... Really? They better have a new book coming soon...


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:29:08


Post by: Bharring


Big fan of what I've read so far.

A big surprise was even Reveal got the "Debuffs only matter when attacked by <Faction>" erratta, but I haven't seen any other factions with that nerf.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:29:21


Post by: BaconCatBug


Glad to see GW finally clarified what "as if" means. I am happy with that one.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:30:30


Post by: Chris521


Reemule wrote:
 Chris521 wrote:
Reemule wrote:
Biggest change is the 4++ for knights.



Castellan again unchanged, Cause people who thought it was are still bad at this game.


Pretty sure it went up 100 points with the weapons


I don't see that in the IK Erratta where it would be. Just No more 3++, Death grip nerfed, Sancristan Forge changed but still sucks. Where are you seeing this change?



I see it the the one that is linked for the Warhammer community article, at the bottom of the document.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:31:34


Post by: lolman1c


Huh, Mob up got nerfed... and nothing else really got addressed... okay...


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:32:41


Post by: Rogerio134134


Deathwatch no longer get beta bolters for SIA and also space marine vehicles no longer get it either.... Annoying


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:34:41


Post by: bullyboy


Deathwatch no bolted discipline and SIA


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:35:23


Post by: stormcraft


Yea land raider crusader is obviously way to strong lol


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:35:59


Post by: Wayniac


At least the Castellan got nerfed.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:37:10


Post by: AlmightyWalrus


No more double Hellfire Shells with Armorium Cherub either.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:37:33


Post by: Reemule


Castellan weapons changed. Well thats going on ebay.

Sub in Crusader or Porphy and the dance goes on...


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:37:34


Post by: Stux


 BaconCatBug wrote:
Glad to see GW finally clarified what "as if" means. I am happy with that one.


Amen!

It'll certainly help in YMDC


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:38:08


Post by: the_scotsman


Thousand Sons can now tank mortal wounds from Perils of the Warp on the non-sorceror models in the unit, removing the instapop problem they had and the wonky interaction with the GSC Sanctus.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:39:32


Post by: Valkyrie


Rogerio134134 wrote:
Deathwatch no longer get beta bolters for SIA and also space marine vehicles no longer get it either.... Annoying


Where does it say Marine vehicles don't get it anymore?


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:39:41


Post by: bullyboy


So funny that GW said not much to change yet this is probably the biggest changes to 8th since its inception


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:40:20


Post by: Wayniac


Still no clarification on what "army" means with the Renegade Traits. It's the only thing in the game which says "If your Chaos Space Marine army is taken from a Renegade Chapter" before saying you can pick the Codex trait or the Vigilus Trait. But what is "your Chaos Space Marine army"? My reading is that means your whole army has to be taken from a Renegade Chapter (i.e. not a Legion) to take the traits. So no Black Legion + Red Corsair min battalion.

Nearly everyone I talk to disagrees with me and says it works like normal, but this sentence is unique to this section and there's nothing which indicates what "your army taken from" means.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:41:07


Post by: the_scotsman


The ability to insta-pop someone with either death grip or GSC mental onslaught has been removed - both now automatically fail if the defending model rolls a natural 6.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hand Flamers appear to have been updated to the D6 profile from the GSC codex for everybody.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:43:22


Post by: Stux


 BaconCatBug wrote:
You can FLY in the Charge Phase again!


Sort of.

You only ignore vertical distance and terrain in the movement phase. In the charge phase you ignore models (except buildings), but you have to measure vertical distance and you have to move around terrain.

Still, seems a good compromise!


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:45:28


Post by: Ice_can


the_scotsman wrote:
The ability to insta-pop someone with either death grip or GSC mental onslaught has been removed - both now automatically fail if the defending model rolls a natural 6.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hand Flamers appear to have been updated to the D6 profile from the GSC codex for everybody.

Metal onslaught was just broken RAW, deathgrip taking 2 nerfs in the same FAQ was probably unnecessary.
Castellen is very dead now, expect to see them going for pennies on Ebay shortly.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:46:19


Post by: Daedalus81


 skchsan wrote:
The FAQ is surprisingly good.


Really really good. Fly is back in a meaningful way. Castellans, Ynnari, and Doom eat it.

IS are still 4 points so I guess we still have SOMETHING to argue about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ice_can wrote:

Metal onslaught was just broken RAW, deathgrip taking 2 nerfs in the same FAQ was probably unnecessary.
Castellen is very dead now, expect to see them going for pennies on Ebay shortly.


They're still quite good, but to each their own.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:48:42


Post by: Galef


Very happy with most of the changes.

I'm not sold on the Bolter Discipline change as it is a straight nerf in all ways. It should have applied that same way, but been +1 shot instead of double, but still double at half range.
Would have solves the Vehicle issue and the DW SIA issue without strictly removing it form those entirely.

But, oh well. DW are still good and Bolter Discipline is still a buff to regular Marines. Just sad that it encourages gunline play.

Will be interested to see how this will effect "top-lists" since Ynnari have been nerfed and the Castallan is +100pts more and can't have 3++ anymore.
Loyal 32 are still a thing.

-


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:51:26


Post by: fraser1191


No more using cherubs to double dip on hell fire shells or flakk missiles


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:51:53


Post by: Martel732


 fraser1191 wrote:
No more using cherubs to double dip on hell fire shells or flakk missiles


That never made any sense to me.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:52:28


Post by: Reemule


 Daedalus81 wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
The FAQ is surprisingly good.


Really really good. Fly is back in a meaningful way. Castellans, Ynnari, and Doom eat it.

IS are still 4 points so I guess we still have SOMETHING to argue about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ice_can wrote:

Metal onslaught was just broken RAW, deathgrip taking 2 nerfs in the same FAQ was probably unnecessary.
Castellen is very dead now, expect to see them going for pennies on Ebay shortly.


They're still quite good, but to each their own.


Not when a Porphy is just 130 points more, or a Crusader is 200 points less. Think of it this way... is it as good on it own as a a Crusader and the Loyal 32? and a few points for something else?


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:53:43


Post by: Ice_can


 Galef wrote:
Very happy with most of the changes.

I'm not sold on the Bolter Discipline change as it is a straight nerf in all ways. It should have applied that same way, but been +1 shot instead of double, but still double at half range.
Would have solves the Vehicle issue and the DW SIA issue without strictly removing it form those entirely.

But, oh well. DW are still good and Bolter Discipline is still a buff to regular Marines. Just sad that it encourages gunline play.

Will be interested to see how this will effect "top-lists" since Ynnari have been nerfed and the Castallan is +100pts more and can't have 3++ anymore.
Loyal 32 are still a thing.

-

Guardbrigadr stays and swaps 1 Castellen for 2 crusaders.
It's still blatantly obvious that someone's being dishonest about 4ppm guardsmen.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:55:15


Post by: onlyroad


What I find weird is that the Castellan took a sizable hit, but so did its biggest counter. Doom, Jinx, and double shooting Eldar units were the natural counter to that kind of list. With all of those taking a hit, I think that Knights actually got a competitive boost, just that we might be seeing 2-3 now instead of the Super-Buffed 1.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:55:58


Post by: Valkyrie


Part of me is a bit annoyed about the Castellan, as what made it OP was the 3++ Invulnerable and Raven Strategem. Perhaps it would be better to change these rather than add +100pts to the cost?


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 16:57:59


Post by: Wayniac


 Valkyrie wrote:
Part of me is a bit annoyed about the Castellan, as what made it OP was the 3++ Invulnerable and Raven Strategem. Perhaps it would be better to change these rather than add +100pts to the cost?
Eh, it was still undercosted by about 75-80ish points. So 100 is maybe a bit on the too much spectrum.

I think I'm most disappointed there's still nothing to address soup/CP batteries and encourage mono faction. Which means it won't ever change, which sucks for people like me who come from a time when you were an "Iron Warriors player" and not a "Chaos Space Marine player".


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:03:01


Post by: the_scotsman


Wayniac wrote:
 Valkyrie wrote:
Part of me is a bit annoyed about the Castellan, as what made it OP was the 3++ Invulnerable and Raven Strategem. Perhaps it would be better to change these rather than add +100pts to the cost?
Eh, it was still undercosted by about 75-80ish points. So 100 is maybe a bit on the too much spectrum.


I think the castellan might be a victim of "give the people what they want, and the people want BLOOD" syndrome.

Like the change or not, GW clearly knew that knocking the castellan out of the limelight would be good PR.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:03:22


Post by: Dr. Mills


 Valkyrie wrote:
Part of me is a bit annoyed about the Castellan, as what made it OP was the 3++ Invulnerable and Raven Strategem. Perhaps it would be better to change these rather than add +100pts to the cost?


Problem is castellan never had to move unless there was massive LoS blocking cover or it had to step out of combat


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:07:15


Post by: Xenomancers


Ice_can wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
The ability to insta-pop someone with either death grip or GSC mental onslaught has been removed - both now automatically fail if the defending model rolls a natural 6.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hand Flamers appear to have been updated to the D6 profile from the GSC codex for everybody.

Metal onslaught was just broken RAW, deathgrip taking 2 nerfs in the same FAQ was probably unnecessary.
Castellen is very dead now, expect to see them going for pennies on Ebay shortly.

Not really. If anything they are even better now - their biggest threats got nerfed. Doom/Jinx only effect CWE. Ynnari are dumpstered. I promise you every single castellan player would take 100 points out of their list to never have to play Ynnari and still win. 4++ Castellan is still really hard to kill. It's just not impossible. Plus Crusaders are much more appealing now. This is a good change.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:09:10


Post by: chimeara


Overall very happy with the changes myself. This oughta change the competitive scene a bit.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:11:01


Post by: Reemule


Xenomancer do you wish to buy mine? It is for sale!


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:11:26


Post by: Galas


I think is a very good FAQ and in general good changes.

People will stop using the Castellan thats right (Or not because as others have said their bigger counters don't work anymore) because it has been balanced.

Just compare the old castellan with like, ALL other superheavies in the game and try to arguee that the Castellan was fine. I don't have that much symphaty for those that chase the meta dragon and try to tell others that the clearly busted units that they sell for pennies the moment they take a nerf are "Right, you just need to learn how to play".

And I'm not a very good player of 40k I recognise that. But that hypocrisy is infuriating.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:11:50


Post by: Xenomancers


the_scotsman wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
 Valkyrie wrote:
Part of me is a bit annoyed about the Castellan, as what made it OP was the 3++ Invulnerable and Raven Strategem. Perhaps it would be better to change these rather than add +100pts to the cost?
Eh, it was still undercosted by about 75-80ish points. So 100 is maybe a bit on the too much spectrum.


I think the castellan might be a victim of "give the people what they want, and the people want BLOOD" syndrome.

Like the change or not, GW clearly knew that knocking the castellan out of the limelight would be good PR.

Think what you may - its obvious to most people you get too much for what you pay for with a Castellan. Now you have a choice between fully decked crusader and Castellan. I think most will still go Castellan. Or maybe Shadowsword.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Reemule wrote:
Xenomancer do you wish to buy mine? It is for sale!

Nah I don't need 2. I have a Vaillant also. I wonder if it has become playable now.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:15:58


Post by: G00fySmiley


I for one look forward to picking up some cheap, poorly painted in 3 colors, and a bti of sand pva gluesd on for "basing" Castellens on ebay. Then converting some to ork gargants and one for the display case after painting to match my other knights.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:16:15


Post by: DeathKorp_Rider


The Marauder Brutes get "a close-combat weapon". What does that mean? Do they mean melee weapon?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, GW screwed over R&H again. They changed one thing when there was so much they needed to do.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:19:47


Post by: lolman1c


I love the idea of people stopping bringing certain models because they became more balanced... I still use the worse models that are best painted. XD


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:22:32


Post by: The_Real_Chris


 Galef wrote:
Just sad that it encourages gunline play.
-


Yes I would have loved a change that made them assault 2 base.

(Actually I would love a change that made them assault two strength 4, -1 armour with an alt fire mode of rapid fire 2, str 3, 0 armour to let them both more rapidly around the board as befits an elite rapid strike army and the ability to put our buckets of dice at point blank range when getting swarmed, but I can but dream.)


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:23:25


Post by: bananathug


Designing my army to now be able to pop a 4++ knight (2 of them) vs one 3++.

Not going to see the ubiquitous farseer on a jetbike in all the DE armies. No more skyweavers for that mater (see ya clowns).

Don't think this is going to shake up the meta that much. Yanarri was already falling out and being replaced by flyers spam. The no-move blocking rule helps but those flyer spam armies will still table you (they just won't block you in your corner while doing it). Castillians will be replaced by two of the smaller knights (and maybe a gallant).

No addressing CP issues or soup.
No help for poor grey knights and space wolves (and to a lesser extend non-Gman marines).
Doom and Jinx should require LOS but the change was good.
Raven strat and fight at full health strats didn't get nerfs (the fight a full health strat really bugs me.)
I had no idea I could use the same strategem more than once per round. Why did I think strats were one use...


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:23:52


Post by: Daedalus81


Reemule wrote:


Not when a Porphy is just 130 points more, or a Crusader is 200 points less. Think of it this way... is it as good on it own as a a Crusader and the Loyal 32? and a few points for something else?



Duuuuuude....

A crusader is 200 cheaper, because it comes nowhere near the Castellan.

2D6 S8 AP2 DD3, 12 S6 AP2 D2, and maybe a melta gun

versus...

+4 wounds, 2D6 S8 AP3 D2, D6 Volcano, FOUR meltaguns, 4D3 S7 AP1 DD3, and two missiles that ignore just about everything in the game.

The Plasma is better than the RFBC. The siegebreakers are better than the AGC. We're at parity. THEN you add the Volcano, meltaguns, missiles, and wounds. THEN you add access to Cawl's which is just straight better than any of the other relic guns.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:24:05


Post by: Flamephoenix182


So why did the brotherhood champion get doubled nerfed lol... Was that model tearing up the meta... I have literally never seen it used.

Another interesting change is you can never get pre game command points refunded anymore.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:24:51


Post by: Ice_can


 Xenomancers wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
The ability to insta-pop someone with either death grip or GSC mental onslaught has been removed - both now automatically fail if the defending model rolls a natural 6.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hand Flamers appear to have been updated to the D6 profile from the GSC codex for everybody.

Metal onslaught was just broken RAW, deathgrip taking 2 nerfs in the same FAQ was probably unnecessary.
Castellen is very dead now, expect to see them going for pennies on Ebay shortly.

Not really. If anything they are even better now - their biggest threats got nerfed. Doom/Jinx only effect CWE. Ynnari are dumpstered. I promise you every single castellan player would take 100 points out of their list to never have to play Ynnari and still win. 4++ Castellan is still really hard to kill. It's just not impossible. Plus Crusaders are much more appealing now. This is a good change.

Why take a Castellen at that points cost with a 4++, when 2 crusaders can be had both with 4++ for less CP burning.
I dont play with a Castellen so I'm happy for now, I just wish they would fix CP instead of constantly upping CP for strategums based on cheap CP for outside codex.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:27:41


Post by: Daedalus81


Oooh...no more DP, LRBT or HWT spamming across codexes.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:29:14


Post by: Galef


bananathug wrote:
Why did I think strats were one use...
because they are in Matched play.

-


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:29:55


Post by: Xenomancers


 Daedalus81 wrote:
Reemule wrote:


Not when a Porphy is just 130 points more, or a Crusader is 200 points less. Think of it this way... is it as good on it own as a a Crusader and the Loyal 32? and a few points for something else?



Duuuuuude....

A crusader is 200 cheaper, because it comes nowhere near the Castellan.

2D6 S8 AP2 DD3, 12 S6 AP2 D2, and maybe a melta gun

versus...

+4 wounds, 2D6 S8 AP3 D2, D6 Volcano, FOUR meltaguns, 4D3 S7 AP1 DD3, and two missiles that ignore just about everything in the game.

The Plasma is better than the RFBC. The siegebreakers are better than the AGC. We're at parity. THEN you add the Volcano, meltaguns, missiles, and wounds. THEN you add access to Cawl's which is just straight better than any of the other relic guns.

Ehhh - I agree that things are more in balance now but lots of the relic guns are really good IMO.

Storm spear relic is reroll all hits ap-3 +12 range.
Endless furry is god teir.
Tyranis melta gets 2d6 damage at all ranges and +12 range.
Relic fist is flat 8 damage and doesn't suffer hit penalty.

Those are all really good.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:30:01


Post by: Reemule


 lolman1c wrote:
I love the idea of people stopping bringing certain models because they became more balanced... I still use the worse models that are best painted. XD


THe Castellan was getting pretty rare in Pure Knights. People found when you had 9CP you couldn't afford to rotate it. I was actually excited for a while, cause with the 4++ RIS nerf, I was thinking I could make it a Warlord, give it the Trait, and afford to field it.

Point wise, it just isn't going to measure up to the Porphy or Crusader now. And that might get even worse with the release of the Arastus or whatever its called, when that happens. The castellan was great cause with Raven Strat it was putting out a huge amount of shots. The porphy has many of the same options, but your also going to full re-rolls as it has a 2+ bs.

Reality with the 4++ change, I'm not sure you would have seen the Castellan anyway. You needed a castellan for their castellan. Now even if they bring a 4++knight, even a Porphy... do you still need a Castellan? Your going to want a strong point.. but did you need that strong point? I think you might see Crusaders much more now. Gives your enemy the same focal point they were going to get, but you save 100+ points.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:30:59


Post by: Xenomancers


Ice_can wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
The ability to insta-pop someone with either death grip or GSC mental onslaught has been removed - both now automatically fail if the defending model rolls a natural 6.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hand Flamers appear to have been updated to the D6 profile from the GSC codex for everybody.

Metal onslaught was just broken RAW, deathgrip taking 2 nerfs in the same FAQ was probably unnecessary.
Castellen is very dead now, expect to see them going for pennies on Ebay shortly.

Not really. If anything they are even better now - their biggest threats got nerfed. Doom/Jinx only effect CWE. Ynnari are dumpstered. I promise you every single castellan player would take 100 points out of their list to never have to play Ynnari and still win. 4++ Castellan is still really hard to kill. It's just not impossible. Plus Crusaders are much more appealing now. This is a good change.

Why take a Castellen at that points cost with a 4++, when 2 crusaders can be had both with 4++ for less CP burning.
I dont play with a Castellen so I'm happy for now, I just wish they would fix CP instead of constantly upping CP for strategums based on cheap CP for outside codex.

Same CP to give 2 knights 4++ because the warlord trait +1 invo will always be the Castellan.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:34:08


Post by: Insectum7


Overall this FAQ is really well done, imo. Well presented, too. It feels like GW really took their time with this one, and it shows.

bananathug wrote:
Designing my army to now be able to pop a 4++ knight (2 of them) vs one 3++.


Right! That makes things much easier to manage when I get out the calculator.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:35:32


Post by: Karol


Flamephoenix182 wrote:
So why did the brotherhood champion get doubled nerfed lol... Was that model tearing up the meta... I have literally never seen it used.

Another interesting change is you can never get pre game command points refunded anymore.

Well heed got nerfed too. As we know GK were too destructive on the meta. But am not angry, I expected a nerf to something, just to keep the tradition up


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:35:39


Post by: Daedalus81


 Xenomancers wrote:

Ehhh - I agree that things are more in balance now but lots of the relic guns are really good IMO.

Storm spear relic is reroll all hits ap-3 +12 range.
Endless furry is god teir.
Tyranis melta gets 2d6 damage at all ranges and +12 range.
Relic fist is flat 8 damage and doesn't suffer hit penalty.

Those are all really good.


Sure, but I'd rather stand off at 48"/80" with a giant gun than try to get within 24" for melta / punching range if shooting something was my goal.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:36:17


Post by: buddha


What sheet has the castellan point increase?


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:36:45


Post by: Torquar


Where are people seeing the Castellan points change? I can't see any points changes in the Knights FAQ?


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:37:32


Post by: Insectum7


 buddha wrote:
What sheet has the castellan point increase?


Down at the end of the main FAQ. The weapons went up in cost. Maybe it's there because it reprices for both loyalist and chaos.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:38:11


Post by: Sunny Side Up


 Galef wrote:

Will be interested to see how this will effect "top-lists" since Ynnari have been nerfed and the Castallan is +100pts more and can't have 3++ anymore.
Loyal 32 are still a thing.

-


The Jim Vesal special (and all other Plaguebearer stuff) got better, if anything, with Lootaz nerf.

Tau will still murder everything in Europe.

Imperial soups with Krast Crusaders remain untouched, and Smash/Shield Captains are ready for a come-back.

Eldar Flyer spam is probably still there. It's the Eldar list least affected by the doom-nerf and benefits from the Loota-nerf and the Mental Onslaught nerf. Also, all other Eldar(soup) builds just got hit 10x harder with the Doom nerf. The Aircraft thing seems minor in comparison, IMO.


Orks and GSC are probably out, before they even arrived (especially some of the variant Orks stuff like Meganobz lists, etc.. which are collateral damage to the Lootaz nerf).


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:39:10


Post by: Xenomancers


 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:

Ehhh - I agree that things are more in balance now but lots of the relic guns are really good IMO.

Storm spear relic is reroll all hits ap-3 +12 range.
Endless furry is god teir.
Tyranis melta gets 2d6 damage at all ranges and +12 range.
Relic fist is flat 8 damage and doesn't suffer hit penalty.

Those are all really good.


Sure, but I'd rather stand off at 48"/80" with a giant gun than try to get within 24" for melta / punching range if shooting something was my goal.

Castellan sure has the range advantages but also has 4 melta guns with 12 inch range. Before those were basically free. Now with the price increase you need to use those meltas or a crusader with a relic is probably a better choice because it's also great in CC too.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:41:43


Post by: Torquar


 Insectum7 wrote:
 buddha wrote:
What sheet has the castellan point increase?


Down at the end of the main FAQ. The weapons went up in cost. Maybe it's there because it reprices for both loyalist and chaos.


FAQ for which book? It's definitely not in the Imperial Knights Faq I'm looking at.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:42:30


Post by: Sunny Side Up


Torquar wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 buddha wrote:
What sheet has the castellan point increase?


Down at the end of the main FAQ. The weapons went up in cost. Maybe it's there because it reprices for both loyalist and chaos.


FAQ for which book? It's definitely not in the Imperial Knights Faq I'm looking at.


Just the big overall FAQ
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/warhammer_40000_update_April_2019_en.pdf


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:44:23


Post by: Quasistellar


Regarding Deathwatch:

I'm trying to remember as I don't have the codex handy at work, but I'm thinking that originally a Captain couldn't take a Xenophase blade with a Storm Bolter or Storm Shield.

The FAQ clarifies that I can now take SB/XB together, but (again, I don't have the codex handy) does this clarification make it so I can take the Xenophase blade with a Storm Shield?

Regarding SIA + Bolter Discipline:

Seems fair. You can still use Bolter Discipline, just not at the same time as SIA. And now Terminators and Bikers in mixed Veterans units can use Bolter Disclipine (before they really couldn't because they didnt have Terminator or Biker keywords)

Regarding Knights:

Happy that they capped the invuln at 4++ (I own a castellan and 3 knights for what it's worth).
Sad that they increased the Castellan cost so much. Maybe 50 points, but 100? Ehhhh, you already didn't see them in mono Knights, and now you literally never will. Heck, if anything, they could have just increased the Imperium Castellan by 50 and dropped the cost of the Chaos version by 50 to represent the difference in strength that Relics and Traits provide to the Imperium models.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:44:53


Post by: Lord Blackscale


I don't like the change to Raven Guard strat/similar at all.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:45:45


Post by: ClockworkZion


I see GW still won't back down from the idea that only Marines don't keep fighting using their chapter's doctrines when they crew a vehicle despite every other army getting to fight the way they're supposed to.

I'm never going to stop being salty about this until they fix it. Also taking Bolter Discipline from vehicles was a stupid choice. It finally did something to help Rhinos this edition and made a Land Raider pattern vehicle viable in armies and they took it away instead of addressing why no one really runs those vehicles in the first place. This feels like a case of survivor's bias at work.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:47:37


Post by: Reemule


 Daedalus81 wrote:
Reemule wrote:


Not when a Porphy is just 130 points more, or a Crusader is 200 points less. Think of it this way... is it as good on it own as a a Crusader and the Loyal 32? and a few points for something else?



Duuuuuude....

A crusader is 200 cheaper, because it comes nowhere near the Castellan.

2D6 S8 AP2 DD3, 12 S6 AP2 D2, and maybe a melta gun

versus...

+4 wounds, 2D6 S8 AP3 D2, D6 Volcano, FOUR meltaguns, 4D3 S7 AP1 DD3, and two missiles that ignore just about everything in the game.

The Plasma is better than the RFBC. The siegebreakers are better than the AGC. We're at parity. THEN you add the Volcano, meltaguns, missiles, and wounds. THEN you add access to Cawl's which is just straight better than any of the other relic guns.


Actually my Crusaders have 2 Heavy Stubbers, Heavy Flamer, Ironstorm Missile Pod,and then RFBC, and Avenger Gatling. All for 210 point less. So all told it averages out to 35 shots. The Castellan averages to 23.5. Now the castellan shots are better.. but 210 points better? And weight of fire is something going for it. And the Heavy Flamer auto hitting is useful for a model that can almost always walk from combat.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:48:44


Post by: blackmage


 Galas wrote:
Q3) Are the Daemon Prince datasheet from Codex: Chaos Space
Marines, the Daemon Prince of Chaos datasheet from Codex:
Chaos Daemons, the Daemon Prince of Nurgle datasheet from
Codex: Death Guard, and the Daemon Prince of Tzeentch
datasheet from Codex: Thousand Sons all considered different
datasheets for the purposes of the Organised Events guidelines?
A3) No. For the purposes of these guidelines all these
datasheets are all considered to be the same.


Goodbye 9 demon princes!

no one ever play anymore 9 DP since long time, welcome instead DP's can again charge over those pesky screens


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:49:07


Post by: Antubis


No-one else going to mention that chaos legion traits now apply to all characters? Lord discordant and steed riders just got a lovely boost


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:50:00


Post by: Matora


They messed up...

Q: With regards the Cadre Fireblade’s Volley Fire ability, what exactly is meant by ‘may fire an extra shot’?
A: It means the player can make one more hit roll for each model. Note that for a model with a pulse rifle (a Rapid Fire weapon) this means that it would make two hit rolls unless the target is within half range, in which case it would make three hit rolls.

??? They fire one shot at range and two up close.
The ability specifically calls out an extra shot if the target is within 1/2 weapon range - so only rapid fire range. Odd.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:50:50


Post by: Xenomancers


 ClockworkZion wrote:
I see GW still won't back down from the idea that only Marines don't keep fighting using their chapter's doctrines when they crew a vehicle despite every other army getting to fight the way they're supposed to.

I'm never going to stop being salty about this until they fix it. Also taking Bolter Discipline from vehicles was a stupid choice. It finally did something to help Rhinos this edition and made a Land Raider pattern vehicle viable in armies and they took it away instead of addressing why no one really runs those vehicles in the first place. This feels like a case of survivor's bias at work.

The vehicle bolter nerf is unnecessary. I think you are right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Antubis wrote:
No-one else going to mention that chaos legion traits now apply to all characters? Lord discordant and steed riders just got a lovely boost
LEGIT!!!


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:52:01


Post by: Vaktathi


 ClockworkZion wrote:
I see GW still won't back down from the idea that only Marines don't keep fighting using their chapter's doctrines when they crew a vehicle despite every other army getting to fight the way they're supposed to.
It seems like GW has no consistent philosophy on traits. Sometimes a subfaction trait applies to vehicles, sometimes vehicles get a different ability from other unit types, and sometimes vehicles get nothing.

Alaitoc has one powerful rule that every unit benefits from, despite it making no sense on things lile hovertanks. Most Guard factions have different infantry and vehicle traits. Legion/Chapter traits don't affect vehicles, dreads aside, at all. I cant see any consistent form of reasoning here.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:52:04


Post by: Stux


Matora wrote:
They messed up...

Q: With regards the Cadre Fireblade’s Volley Fire ability, what exactly is meant by ‘may fire an extra shot’?
A: It means the player can make one more hit roll for each model. Note that for a model with a pulse rifle (a Rapid Fire weapon) this means that it would make two hit rolls unless the target is within half range, in which case it would make three hit
rolls.

They fire one shot at range and two up close. ???


Yes, that's how Rapid Fire (1) works.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:53:04


Post by: Wayniac


Well, Lord Disco got a buff if you play Alpha Legion, which is funny because they are probably the least likely to use Daemon Engines...


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:55:16


Post by: Xenomancers


Reemule wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Reemule wrote:


Not when a Porphy is just 130 points more, or a Crusader is 200 points less. Think of it this way... is it as good on it own as a a Crusader and the Loyal 32? and a few points for something else?



Duuuuuude....

A crusader is 200 cheaper, because it comes nowhere near the Castellan.

2D6 S8 AP2 DD3, 12 S6 AP2 D2, and maybe a melta gun

versus...

+4 wounds, 2D6 S8 AP3 D2, D6 Volcano, FOUR meltaguns, 4D3 S7 AP1 DD3, and two missiles that ignore just about everything in the game.

The Plasma is better than the RFBC. The siegebreakers are better than the AGC. We're at parity. THEN you add the Volcano, meltaguns, missiles, and wounds. THEN you add access to Cawl's which is just straight better than any of the other relic guns.


Actually my Crusaders have 2 Heavy Stubbers, Heavy Flamer, Ironstorm Missile Pod,and then RFBC, and Avenger Gatling. All for 210 point less. So all told it averages out to 35 shots. The Castellan averages to 23.5. Now the castellan shots are better.. but 210 points better? And weight of fire is something going for it. And the Heavy Flamer auto hitting is useful for a model that can almost always walk from combat.

Crusaders are good. They have always been good. Castellan was just OP. I've been saying this all eddition.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:55:28


Post by: Matora


 Stux wrote:
Matora wrote:
They messed up...

Q: With regards the Cadre Fireblade’s Volley Fire ability, what exactly is meant by ‘may fire an extra shot’?
A: It means the player can make one more hit roll for each model. Note that for a model with a pulse rifle (a Rapid Fire weapon) this means that it would make two hit rolls unless the target is within half range, in which case it would make three hit
rolls.

They fire one shot at range and two up close. ???


Yes, that's how Rapid Fire (1) works.


"it would make two hit rolls unless the target is within half range"

There's no way to get two shots outside half range.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:56:17


Post by: Daedalus81




Yea this is not in the FAQ page - only from FB.

It is well worth a read as GW gives considerable verbage to the issues.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:56:25


Post by: BaconCatBug


 Stux wrote:
Matora wrote:
They messed up...

Q: With regards the Cadre Fireblade’s Volley Fire ability, what exactly is meant by ‘may fire an extra shot’?
A: It means the player can make one more hit roll for each model. Note that for a model with a pulse rifle (a Rapid Fire weapon) this means that it would make two hit rolls unless the target is within half range, in which case it would make three hit
rolls.

They fire one shot at range and two up close. ???


Yes, that's how Rapid Fire (1) works.
The issue is Volley Fire says "may fire an extra shot with pulse pistols, pulse carbines and pulse rifles when shooting at a target within half the weapon’s range." So you only get 1 shot at full range, not 2. The FAQ is suggesting you get 2 shots at full range.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:57:20


Post by: Umbros



A huge amount of very positive changes for playability purposes. The effect on balance will be interesting to see, but the reduced Ion shield save, higher Castellant cost and eldar psychic power changes all seem eminently sensible.

Tentatively optimistic about these.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 17:58:20


Post by: Eihnlazer


Oh I just noticed something fun.


If the models in a unit are so far apart that their full move wont bring them into coherency, they can now no longer move at all.


That's right, they cant pile in, consolidate, or make any kind of movement whatsoever, if they are too strung out.



They also FINALLY clarified what you can do "as if you were" in a certain phase.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:01:58


Post by: Eldarsif


What I like about the General Update is that they are actually expressing their intent when describing why something was done or misunderstood.

Love this FAQ.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:04:15


Post by: Elfric


Can you still rapid fire with DW at half range and use SIA ammo?


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:04:53


Post by: tneva82


Quasistellar wrote:
Sad that they increased the Castellan cost so much. Maybe 50 points, but 100? Ehhhh, you already didn't see them in mono Knights, and now you literally never will. Heck, if anything, they could have just increased the Imperium Castellan by 50 and dropped the cost of the Chaos version by 50 to represent the difference in strength that Relics and Traits provide to the Imperium models.


GW considers stratagems, relics, traits etc 0 points so...


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:05:58


Post by: Xenomancers


Wayniac wrote:
Well, Lord Disco got a buff if you play Alpha Legion, which is funny because they are probably the least likely to use Daemon Engines...

IMO red corsairs is the best. Advance and charge is huge - ESP when you have an 18" autohit flamer


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:06:47


Post by: DCannon4Life


 Eihnlazer wrote:

They also FINALLY clarified what you can do "as if you were" in a certain phase.


Where are you seeing this?


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:07:57


Post by: Bharring


The Aircraft movement changes should impact Eldar Airwing a bit. Good changes.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:09:18


Post by: tneva82


 Eihnlazer wrote:
Oh I just noticed something fun.


If the models in a unit are so far apart that their full move wont bring them into coherency, they can now no longer move at all.




YEah nice clarification. Note that since you HAD(no "if's". Must. Period) to establish coherency next time you move this was already case really...Just now made obviously clear that if you can't then you can't move.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:09:27


Post by: BaconCatBug


 Elfric wrote:
Can you still rapid fire with DW at half range and use SIA ammo?
No, because there is no such thing as being able to "rapid fire" in 8th. Last time there was was 2nd edition.

If you meant "Do Rapid Fire weapons still follow the Rapid Fire rules when using SIA?", then the answer is yes, they do.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:09:37


Post by: Daedalus81


 Eldarsif wrote:
What I like about the General Update is that they are actually expressing their intent when describing why something was done or misunderstood.

Love this FAQ.


Yep - well reasoned and thoroughly expressed thoughts.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:09:40


Post by: iGuy91


Castellan - Nerfed
Ynnari - Nerfed
Ork Mob Up Lootas - Nerfed
Deathwatch - Nerfed
Fixed Fly Well Enough
Fixed flyer walls
Fixed Embarking to escape melee combat
Fixed instant death powers like Mental Onslaught
Fixed Necron transports slightly so you can use the stratagem to save embarked models from instant death turn 1
Clarified if MWBD sticks to units who then are moved by the VOD relic (It sticks)

God its like i died and went to heaven. I am beyond pleased.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:09:51


Post by: Eihnlazer


DCannon4Life wrote:
 Eihnlazer wrote:

They also FINALLY clarified what you can do "as if you were" in a certain phase.


Where are you seeing this?



Its in the BRB FAQ errata. Don't remember which page but its the question and answer part.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:10:51


Post by: Bharring


 iGuy91 wrote:
Castellan - Nerfed
Ynnari - Nerfed
Ork Mob Up Lootas - Nerfed
Deathwatch - Nerfed
Fixed Fly Well Enough
Fixed flyer walls
Fixed Embarking to escape melee combat
Fixed instant death powers like Mental Onslaught
Fixed Necron transports slightly so you can use the stratagem to save embarked models from instant death turn 1
Clarified if MWBD sticks to units who then are moved by the VOD relic (It sticks)

God its like i died and went to heaven. I am beyond pleased.

This FAQ does seem unreasonably well done.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:10:54


Post by: Sunny Side Up


Seems pretty much everything but Tau and Imperial Soup got a nerf.

Crusader/Smash Captain/Guard or AdMech lists everywhere!! lol.

Except, ironically, maybe Eldar airforce. With Lootaz and Mental Onslaught out, and being somewhat ok with the Doom nerf, it's probably still the only Eldar build that'll survive.

But it's largely the "play Imperium or get out"-FAQ.



April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:11:57


Post by: Bharring


Eldar Airforce did get nerfed.

Mono-Craftworlders didn't get nerfed (beyond the Flyer thing) as far as I've seen. Not that they're a huge problem.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:12:08


Post by: Elfric


 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Elfric wrote:
Can you still rapid fire with DW at half range and use SIA ammo?
No, because there is no such thing as being able to "rapid fire" in 8th. Last time there was was 2nd edition.

If you meant "Do Rapid Fire weapons still follow the Rapid Fire rules when using SIA?", then the answer is yes, they do.


As long as I can get within half range and fire a boat load of shots combined with SIA thats all i need to know.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:12:19


Post by: Insectum7


 ClockworkZion wrote:
I see GW still won't back down from the idea that only Marines don't keep fighting using their chapter's doctrines when they crew a vehicle despite every other army getting to fight the way they're supposed to.

I'm never going to stop being salty about this until they fix it. Also taking Bolter Discipline from vehicles was a stupid choice. It finally did something to help Rhinos this edition and made a Land Raider pattern vehicle viable in armies and they took it away instead of addressing why no one really runs those vehicles in the first place. This feels like a case of survivor's bias at work.


I'm actually happy about that one. Yeah my Rhinos won't be blazing 8 bolter shots at 24" anymore, but the intent is that it's a unique fire discipline that marines can have because of their training as warriors, not drivers. Sure, LRCrusacers still have issues, but bolters firing more doesn't really address the it's core issue (which is shared by the other Land Raiders). Honestly bikes still rapid-firing feels off to me, but whatevs, I can imagine some marines with a lot of focus on bike training as a primary role.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:14:05


Post by: rollawaythestone


The clarification to "as if it were the shooting phase" means that you get lots of re-rolls in overwatch. Give Cawl a nice bonus.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:14:14


Post by: Matora


Can't get the BRB update or the Chapter Approved update. If I sort by Recently Updated, it stops at the codecies. Does anyone have a direct link?

This is what I see:
http://prntscr.com/nidq9t


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:15:12


Post by: DCannon4Life


 Eihnlazer wrote:
DCannon4Life wrote:
 Eihnlazer wrote:

They also FINALLY clarified what you can do "as if you were" in a certain phase.


Where are you seeing this?



Its in the BRB FAQ errata. Don't remember which page but its the question and answer part.

Link? I keep getting the old version. Have cleared my cache.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:15:23


Post by: Eldarsif


Sunny Side Up wrote:
Seems pretty much everything but Tau and Imperial Soup got a nerf.

Crusader/Smash Captain/Guard or AdMech lists everywhere!! lol.

Except, ironically, maybe Eldar airforce. With Lootaz and Mental Onslaught out, and being somewhat ok with the Doom nerf, it's probably still the only Eldar build that'll survive.

But it's largely the "play Imperium or get out"-FAQ.



Technically Imperial Soup got a nerf as Castellans got a nerf(increased cost and at best 4++).

Next few months are going to be exciting.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:16:17


Post by: Karol


 Eldarsif wrote:
What I like about the General Update is that they are actually expressing their intent when describing why something was done or misunderstood.

Love this FAQ.


Wish they did it for the faction FAQs too. Not because am against the changes, but I would like to know why they changed the brotherhood champion the way they did.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:18:45


Post by: Eihnlazer


Also, where do you see the assassin strat going up to 2 CP. I didn't see anything about the assasins.






This is on page 9 btw:

Q: When a rule allows a model or unit to take an action (move, shoot, charge, fight or attempt to manifest a psychic power) outside of the normal turn sequence, and that rule explicitly mentions to make that action as if it were a different phase of the turn structure to the current one, e.g. ‘That unit can shoot as if it were the Shooting phase’, do rules that are normally used during that phase (in the example this would be the Shooting phase) take effect? Is the same true of Overwatch attacks? A: With the exception of Stratagems, all rules (e.g. abilities, Warlord Traits, psychic powers etc.) that would apply in a specific phase apply to actions that are taking place ‘as if it were that phase’. However, if a Stratagem specifies that it must be used in a specific phase, then it can only be used in that phase (e.g. you cannot use a Stratagem that says ‘Use this Stratagem in the Shooting phase’ to affect a unit that is Shooting ‘as if it were the Shooting phase’). For the purposes of this FAQ, Overwatch attacks are also considered to be attacks made as if it were your Shooting phase.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:20:02


Post by: the_scotsman


 Eihnlazer wrote:
Also, where do you see the assassin strat going up to 2 CP. I didn't see anything about the assasins.


They released a main summary page of the FAQ that included the major rules changes as well as the 2Cp assassin change and the 100pt increase to the castellan.



April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:20:13


Post by: Ice_can


 Eldarsif wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
Seems pretty much everything but Tau and Imperial Soup got a nerf.

Crusader/Smash Captain/Guard or AdMech lists everywhere!! lol.

Except, ironically, maybe Eldar airforce. With Lootaz and Mental Onslaught out, and being somewhat ok with the Doom nerf, it's probably still the only Eldar build that'll survive.

But it's largely the "play Imperium or get out"-FAQ.



Technically Imperial Soup got a nerf as Castellans got a nerf(increased cost and at best 4++).

Next few months are going to be exciting.

Maybe, probably not, as the general theam of 1k of Guard plus smashcaptain or knight or both is just going to be the same old same old at this point, they may switch from Castellen to crusader, they might stick with castellen and add smash command, but it's still the same powerhouse.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the_scotsman wrote:
 Eihnlazer wrote:
Also, where do you see the assassin strat going up to 2 CP. I didn't see anything about the assasins.


They released a main summary page of the FAQ that included the major rules changes as well as the 2Cp assassin change and the 100pt increase to the castellan.


They also changed is so it's all in on a execution force or 1 assasin only.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:25:16


Post by: Eldarsif


Karol wrote:
 Eldarsif wrote:
What I like about the General Update is that they are actually expressing their intent when describing why something was done or misunderstood.

Love this FAQ.


Wish they did it for the faction FAQs too. Not because am against the changes, but I would like to know why they changed the brotherhood champion the way they did.


Hopefully they'll do that more in the future.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:25:51


Post by: BaconCatBug


Matora wrote:
Can't get the BRB update or the Chapter Approved update. If I sort by Recently Updated, it stops at the codecies. Does anyone have a direct link?

This is what I see:
http://prntscr.com/nidq9t
The website is glitchy as hell. I assume some sort of proxy or caching issue. If I go to https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/ and click the 40k button it works for me.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:26:06


Post by: Xenomancers


Bharring wrote:
 iGuy91 wrote:
Castellan - Nerfed
Ynnari - Nerfed
Ork Mob Up Lootas - Nerfed
Deathwatch - Nerfed
Fixed Fly Well Enough
Fixed flyer walls
Fixed Embarking to escape melee combat
Fixed instant death powers like Mental Onslaught
Fixed Necron transports slightly so you can use the stratagem to save embarked models from instant death turn 1
Clarified if MWBD sticks to units who then are moved by the VOD relic (It sticks)

God its like i died and went to heaven. I am beyond pleased.

This FAQ does seem unreasonably well done.

Poor standards we have - the FAQ is almost as good as it should have been so we get excited.
Lets keep in mind this FAQ nerfed Land Raiders and did nothing about 4PPM guardsmen.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:26:46


Post by: The Newman


 Lord Blackscale wrote:
I don't like the change to Raven Guard strat/similar at all.


That's been a beta rule for quite a while for RG, they just spread the love some.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:27:13


Post by: SaganGree


Sunny Side Up wrote:
Seems pretty much everything but Tau and Imperial Soup got a nerf.





... and I read it wrong...


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:28:55


Post by: Drudge Dreadnought


This is a very encouraging FAQ. The amount of explanation from the designer is new and very nice to see. They didn't address all the issues i'd like (Marine infantry still sucks), but it looks like they paid attention to what was winning tournaments.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:30:46


Post by: rollawaythestone


Yes, happy to see the thought put into the FAQ. Many of the changes were a compromise between positions, and they definitely tried and address the most serious problem spots of the edition. Coupled with the Ynnari nerf, the next year will make for some interesting gaming.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:31:33


Post by: Reemule


 Xenomancers wrote:

Crusaders are good. They have always been good. Castellan was just OP. I've been saying this all eddition.


So good now its a paperweight.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:33:33


Post by: Matora


 BaconCatBug wrote:
Matora wrote:
Can't get the BRB update or the Chapter Approved update. If I sort by Recently Updated, it stops at the codecies. Does anyone have a direct link?

This is what I see:
http://prntscr.com/nidq9t
The website is glitchy as hell. I assume some sort of proxy or caching issue. If I go to https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/ and click the 40k button it works for me.


Worked when I sorted z-a but not when sorted by a-z or recently updated...


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:34:09


Post by: Ice_can


 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
This is a very encouraging FAQ. The amount of explanation from the designer is new and very nice to see. They didn't address all the issues i'd like (Marine infantry still sucks), but it looks like they paid attention to what was winning tournaments.

Well except the guardsmen because GW didn't see the value of cheap wounds.
Though atleast with the fly changes they arnt quite the same broken wall.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:34:31


Post by: Daedalus81


 Xenomancers wrote:
Bharring wrote:
 iGuy91 wrote:
Castellan - Nerfed
Ynnari - Nerfed
Ork Mob Up Lootas - Nerfed
Deathwatch - Nerfed
Fixed Fly Well Enough
Fixed flyer walls
Fixed Embarking to escape melee combat
Fixed instant death powers like Mental Onslaught
Fixed Necron transports slightly so you can use the stratagem to save embarked models from instant death turn 1
Clarified if MWBD sticks to units who then are moved by the VOD relic (It sticks)

God its like i died and went to heaven. I am beyond pleased.

This FAQ does seem unreasonably well done.

Poor standards we have - the FAQ is almost as good as it should have been so we get excited.
Lets keep in mind this FAQ nerfed Land Raiders and did nothing about 4PPM guardsmen.


GW fixes a dozen things really well. GW doesn't increase a max 10 man unit by 1 point that requires support to function. FAQ is therefore bad.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:34:33


Post by: Asmodios


gave the FAQ a quick read and it looks like it was worth waiting for. This edition just keeps getting better and better with each update


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:35:50


Post by: Xenomancers


Reemule wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:

Crusaders are good. They have always been good. Castellan was just OP. I've been saying this all eddition.


So good now its a paperweight.

I play against Admech and a crusader a lot because my best friend is Admech junkie. It is extremely hard to beat that list. It is far from a paperweight. It's a knight you can't kill with 3 big guns that crushes everything but pure melle units with ease.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Bharring wrote:
 iGuy91 wrote:
Castellan - Nerfed
Ynnari - Nerfed
Ork Mob Up Lootas - Nerfed
Deathwatch - Nerfed
Fixed Fly Well Enough
Fixed flyer walls
Fixed Embarking to escape melee combat
Fixed instant death powers like Mental Onslaught
Fixed Necron transports slightly so you can use the stratagem to save embarked models from instant death turn 1
Clarified if MWBD sticks to units who then are moved by the VOD relic (It sticks)

God its like i died and went to heaven. I am beyond pleased.

This FAQ does seem unreasonably well done.

Poor standards we have - the FAQ is almost as good as it should have been so we get excited.
Lets keep in mind this FAQ nerfed Land Raiders and did nothing about 4PPM guardsmen.


GW fixes a dozen things really well. GW doesn't increase a max 10 man unit by 1 point that requires support to function. FAQ is therefore bad.

Nah - by GW standards this is masterpiece. It's not bad - it addressed most of the issues in the game. However lots of obvious stuff didn't change...like infantry....or CP in general. LR's obviously don't need to get worse...I am happy with this FAQ.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:39:49


Post by: Bharring


 Xenomancers wrote:
Bharring wrote:
 iGuy91 wrote:
Castellan - Nerfed
Ynnari - Nerfed
Ork Mob Up Lootas - Nerfed
Deathwatch - Nerfed
Fixed Fly Well Enough
Fixed flyer walls
Fixed Embarking to escape melee combat
Fixed instant death powers like Mental Onslaught
Fixed Necron transports slightly so you can use the stratagem to save embarked models from instant death turn 1
Clarified if MWBD sticks to units who then are moved by the VOD relic (It sticks)

God its like i died and went to heaven. I am beyond pleased.

This FAQ does seem unreasonably well done.

Poor standards we have - the FAQ is almost as good as it should have been so we get excited.
Lets keep in mind this FAQ nerfed Land Raiders and did nothing about 4PPM guardsmen.

Perfection is the enemy of excellence.

It'll need some playtesting to decide if this is, indeed, excellence. But on paper, seems to be.

Whether Guardsmen should be 5ppm or not, it's been fairly clear that it wasn't going to be done. To dismiss everything else as bad because they didn't make one particular hotly-debated change that you want is silly.

As for the LR "nerf", it's hard to consider "Can't doubletap beyond half range with the lightest weapons it carries, on some variants" as a particularly impactful or meaningful part of the FAQ. That said, makes sense. It's a tank firing an array of RapidFire weapons, not a Marine firing their trusty Boltgun.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:40:46


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


I'm very disappointed with the fact that they decided that Space Marine tanks don't get bolter drill.

Like, do space marines not use tanks? Why do they even make SM tank models if tanks aren't an important part of the Astartes way of war?


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:42:34


Post by: Ice_can


 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I'm very disappointed with the fact that they decided that Space Marine tanks don't get bolter drill.

Like, do space marines not use tanks? Why do they even make SM tank models if tanks aren't an important part of the Astartes way of war?

Unfortunately it seems some fluff monkey has decided that marine armies shouldn't use vehicals hence they are writing the rules to make sure no marine player every does.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:42:57


Post by: The Newman


 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
This is a very encouraging FAQ. The amount of explanation from the designer is new and very nice to see. They didn't address all the issues i'd like (Marine infantry still sucks), but it looks like they paid attention to what was winning tournaments.


Gotta second this sentiment, explaining why they did things is a breath of fresh air.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:43:23


Post by: Xenomancers


It is a random unnecessary consideration. There was 0 need balance wise to do this (astartes bolter with vehicles)...marine vehicles don't even get army traits for no reason. It is obvious someone just doesn't like marines vehicle in the rules house....

Judging by the lack of nerfs to guard - I'd say it's a guard player.



April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:43:28


Post by: Reemule


 Xenomancers wrote:
Reemule wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:

Crusaders are good. They have always been good. Castellan was just OP. I've been saying this all eddition.


So good now its a paperweight.

I play against Admech and a crusader a lot because my best friend is Admech junkie. It is extremely hard to beat that list. It is far from a paperweight. It's a knight you can't kill with 3 big guns that crushes everything but pure melle units with ease.

And maybe in your casual games he will run it for you so you can keep telling yourself how dead hard it is.

The rest of us have moved on to our new Crusader overlords, and you and that other guy over there insisting its still worth it, with that 4 guys that think Centurions are worth it.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:45:01


Post by: Daedalus81


Ice_can wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I'm very disappointed with the fact that they decided that Space Marine tanks don't get bolter drill.

Like, do space marines not use tanks? Why do they even make SM tank models if tanks aren't an important part of the Astartes way of war?

Unfortunately it seems some fluff monkey has decided that marine armies shouldn't use vehicals hence they are writing the rules to make sure no marine player every does.


It did overshadow the point of the rule. If they wanted to make marines better with it then they did, but only marginally against hurricane bolter toting vehicles. Things brings it back even if you don't agree with the decision.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:46:44


Post by: Apple Peel


Valkyrie nerf makes it so the only way to get hot-shot lasguns into rapid fire and doctrine triggering range is to walk them up. Ugh. Did they change that one Warlord trait for Harlequins to be consistent, or do they still get to move after disembarking from a moved vehicle?


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:46:46


Post by: Sgt_Smudge


 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I'm very disappointed with the fact that they decided that Space Marine tanks don't get bolter drill.

Like, do space marines not use tanks? Why do they even make SM tank models if tanks aren't an important part of the Astartes way of war?
It's because SM tanks don't fire their bolters any differently to bolters on other tanks. However, their flesh and blood forces (plus their Dreadnoughts, who are more like MCs than Vehicles IMO) do use their bolters differently.

Just because they don't get Bolter Discipline doesn't mean they're any less Astartes.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:47:53


Post by: DCannon4Life


Finally got it to pop up after sorting and re-sorting! Very glad to see the "as if" clarification.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:48:10


Post by: ClockworkZion


 Vaktathi wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
I see GW still won't back down from the idea that only Marines don't keep fighting using their chapter's doctrines when they crew a vehicle despite every other army getting to fight the way they're supposed to.
It seems like GW has no consistent philosophy on traits. Sometimes a subfaction trait applies to vehicles, sometimes vehicles get a different ability from other unit types, and sometimes vehicles get nothing.

Alaitoc has one powerful rule that every unit benefits from, despite it making no sense on things lile hovertanks. Most Guard factions have different infantry and vehicle traits. Legion/Chapter traits don't affect vehicles, dreads aside, at all. I cant see any consistent form of reasoning here.

I'd be happy if they all worked like the Guard's traits did at least. Give us -something- to make vehicles worth taking in a Marine army GW.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:49:33


Post by: Xenomancers


 Daedalus81 wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I'm very disappointed with the fact that they decided that Space Marine tanks don't get bolter drill.

Like, do space marines not use tanks? Why do they even make SM tank models if tanks aren't an important part of the Astartes way of war?

Unfortunately it seems some fluff monkey has decided that marine armies shouldn't use vehicals hence they are writing the rules to make sure no marine player every does.


It did overshadow the point of the rule. If they wanted to make marines better with it then they did, but only marginally against hurricane bolter toting vehicles. Things brings it back even if you don't agree with the decision.

Ironclads with hurricane bolters still benefit though...LOL


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:49:54


Post by: Drudge Dreadnought


 Xenomancers wrote:
It is a random unnecessary consideration. There was 0 need balance wise to do this (astartes bolter with vehicles)...marine vehicles don't even get army traits for no reason. It is obvious someone just doesn't like marines vehicle in the rules house....

Judging by the lack of nerfs to guard - I'd say it's a guard player.



Marines are supposed to be centered around the use of marine infantry, with vehicles as support. This worked well in past editions where, compared to other factions, their regular dudes were better and more versatile but their tanks were weaker. The lack of vehicle traits makes sense if you see marines as being about fielding marines, with only the occasional support unit. And this would be fine if marines were good, and if soup didn't exist. I don't mind this design philosophy because we need stuff like this to differentiate factions, it just hasn't been well implemented in 8th. If marine units ever get some proper buffs and fixes, then this won't be an issue anymore.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:50:59


Post by: Xenomancers


Reemule wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Reemule wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:

Crusaders are good. They have always been good. Castellan was just OP. I've been saying this all eddition.


So good now its a paperweight.

I play against Admech and a crusader a lot because my best friend is Admech junkie. It is extremely hard to beat that list. It is far from a paperweight. It's a knight you can't kill with 3 big guns that crushes everything but pure melle units with ease.

And maybe in your casual games he will run it for you so you can keep telling yourself how dead hard it is.

The rest of us have moved on to our new Crusader overlords, and you and that other guy over there insisting its still worth it, with that 4 guys that think Centurions are worth it.

I'm happy - now I can can play Castellans in casual games...Got a 100 point nerf.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:52:24


Post by: Shadenuat


Fixed Embarking to escape melee combat

Can someone explain this to me? I didn't get what is this about even though I did read the actual text of a change.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:53:47


Post by: Xenomancers


 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
It is a random unnecessary consideration. There was 0 need balance wise to do this (astartes bolter with vehicles)...marine vehicles don't even get army traits for no reason. It is obvious someone just doesn't like marines vehicle in the rules house....

Judging by the lack of nerfs to guard - I'd say it's a guard player.



Marines are supposed to be centered around the use of marine infantry, with vehicles as support. This worked well in past editions where, compared to other factions, their regular dudes were better and more versatile but their tanks were weaker. The lack of vehicle traits makes sense if you see marines as being about fielding marines, with only the occasional support unit. And this would be fine if marines were good, and if soup didn't exist. I don't mind this design philosophy because we need stuff like this to differentiate factions, it just hasn't been well implemented in 8th. If marine units ever get some proper buffs and fixes, then this won't be an issue anymore.

Well fluf wise...I'm sure a bolter is more effective on a marine rather than mounted on tank. But balance and fluff have nothing to do with each other.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:53:59


Post by: Daedalus81


 Shadenuat wrote:
Fixed Embarking to escape melee combat

Can someone explain this to me? I didn't get what is this about even though I did read the actual text of a change.


I charge your castellan, and those 4 guard units, and this, and that...

...oh no my rhino blew up! I guess I get to disembark and charge you!


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:54:34


Post by: chimeara


 Xenomancers wrote:
Reemule wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Reemule wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:

Crusaders are good. They have always been good. Castellan was just OP. I've been saying this all eddition.


So good now its a paperweight.

I play against Admech and a crusader a lot because my best friend is Admech junkie. It is extremely hard to beat that list. It is far from a paperweight. It's a knight you can't kill with 3 big guns that crushes everything but pure melle units with ease.

And maybe in your casual games he will run it for you so you can keep telling yourself how dead hard it is.

The rest of us have moved on to our new Crusader overlords, and you and that other guy over there insisting its still worth it, with that 4 guys that think Centurions are worth it.

I'm happy - now I can can play Castellans in casual games...Got a 100 point nerf.

And you shouldn't lose friends whilst doing so


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 18:55:14


Post by: Shadenuat


I charge your castellan, and those 4 guard units, and this, and that...

Nah, that one I do understand.

Something about if you're within "3 of a transport and embarking without actual move action while within "1 of the enemy.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 19:04:34


Post by: Sherrypie


Finally, twin lascannons on Hellforged Contemptors! Took long enough.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 19:08:24


Post by: Elbows


 Shadenuat wrote:
I charge your castellan, and those 4 guard units, and this, and that...

Nah, that one I do understand.

Something about if you're within "3 of a transport and embarking without actual move action while within "1 of the enemy.


Essentially there was no rule against embarking into a vehicle in the end of your Movement Phase even if you were in close combat. So if you were in close-combat with enemies, a Chimaera or other transport could zip up - and if your models were all within 3" of the vehicle they could embark, auto-leaving close combat. It was extremely rare, but feasible. With a 3" range to embark you could even rescue "tri-pointed" models who could not otherwise leave combat.

This now eliminates that.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 19:10:38


Post by: iGuy91


 Shadenuat wrote:
Fixed Embarking to escape melee combat

Can someone explain this to me? I didn't get what is this about even though I did read the actual text of a change.



If you had a squad in melee in front of a transport. They could "embark" into the transport to leave melee combat since the squad was within 3 inches of a transport, regardless of wrapped models etc Since those models leave the table.

Its a nice little buff for melee forces.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 19:13:19


Post by: Skullhammer


 Shadenuat wrote:
I charge your castellan, and those 4 guard units, and this, and that...

Nah, that one I do understand.

Something about if you're within "3 of a transport and embarking without actual move action while within "1 of the enemy.






If your in combat and you have a transport within three of your guys you could in the movement phase get in the vehical and escape cqc witthout penalty and then just drive off, this is no longer an option.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 19:13:53


Post by: Pain4Pleasure


Don’t need jinx for a castellan that can’t get better than 4+ anyway. Guided skyweavers will still wreck it almost just as much as they could in the doom/jinx days. That’s good news. Flier spam was dumb glad it’s gone. Other than that everything didn’t really change. Love seeing comments of (eldar weren’t a problem anyway) but people for the past week have been complaining of eldar


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 19:16:53


Post by: Shadenuat


Skullhammer wrote:
If your in combat and you have a transport within three of your guys you could in the movement phase get in the vehical and escape cqc witthout penalty and then just drive off, this is no longer an option.

I mean, you can fall back and embark, no?


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 19:18:00


Post by: Zontarz


If I’m reading this right LRBTs can now fire twice in overwatch, and if they are Cadian they get to re-rolls ones as well since it’s “count-as” the shooting phase?


Holy emperor...


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 19:19:51


Post by: Matora


 Zontarz wrote:
If I’m reading this right LRBTs can now fire twice in overwatch, and if they are Cadian they get to re-rolls ones as well since it’s “count-as” the shooting phase?


Holy emperor...


I might need to go and buy a tank army...


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 19:23:32


Post by: Bharring


Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Don’t need jinx for a castellan that can’t get better than 4+ anyway. Guided skyweavers will still wreck it almost just as much as they could in the doom/jinx days. That’s good news. Flier spam was dumb glad it’s gone. Other than that everything didn’t really change. Love seeing comments of (eldar weren’t a problem anyway) but people for the past week have been complaining of eldar

Doom gave Skyweavers roughly *double* damage - more than Doom gave to any of the non-Haywire weapons. Guide would, theoretically, bump Skyweaver damage by 33%. That's nowhere close.

That said, Skyweavers haven't been a legal target for Guide, so unless the Ynnari change changed that, you still can't Guide them.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 19:24:09


Post by: tneva82


 Shadenuat wrote:
Skullhammer wrote:
If your in combat and you have a transport within three of your guys you could in the movement phase get in the vehical and escape cqc witthout penalty and then just drive off, this is no longer an option.

I mean, you can fall back and embark, no?


Assuming you could fall out of combat yes. This prevents when you are trapped in it.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 19:25:01


Post by: Pain4Pleasure


Bharring wrote:
Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Don’t need jinx for a castellan that can’t get better than 4+ anyway. Guided skyweavers will still wreck it almost just as much as they could in the doom/jinx days. That’s good news. Flier spam was dumb glad it’s gone. Other than that everything didn’t really change. Love seeing comments of (eldar weren’t a problem anyway) but people for the past week have been complaining of eldar

Doom gave Skyweavers roughly *double* damage - more than Doom gave to any of the non-Haywire weapons. Guide would, theoretically, bump Skyweaver damage by 33%. That's nowhere close.

That said, Skyweavers haven't been a legal target for Guide, so unless the Ynnari change changed that, you still can't Guide them.

Ah I see. Rather I feel the nerf to castellan and the nerf to doom and jinx balance out. Skyweaver haywire still has its place. And I said guide, but yes I’m ynnari there is a spell like guide for ynnari units. I forget I think ancestors grace? But yeah it’s the same.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 19:26:22


Post by: Shadenuat


tneva82 wrote:
Assuming you could fall out of combat yes. This prevents when you are trapped in it.

Thanks, that's what I assumed, but FAQ wording did not explain that well enough.

 Zontarz wrote:
If I’m reading this right LRBTs can now fire twice in overwatch, and if they are Cadian they get to re-rolls ones as well since it’s “count-as” the shooting phase?

Thought it's other way around - "as if" is just that, "as if", and doesn't count like a real shooting phase?


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 19:28:20


Post by: ServiceGames


With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 19:28:30


Post by: The Newman


Reemule wrote:
...with that 4 guys that think Centurions are worth it.

Not even the most ardent Centurion supporter is trying to claim that they're worth their points, we just happen to like our Hulkbuster model.

They're in an awkward spot because they have to compete with 60-point Dreadnaughts; to be worth 40 they need to be significantly tougher but that's a fine line to walk, and GW can only reduce the points for the basic guy so far. The closest comparison is probably a 27 point attack bike (T5, W4, 3+) and how many points are move and fire without penalty and ignore cover modifier worth compared to a 12" move on a shooting model? Amd even if Centurions were 30 points they'd still have a problem because their cheapest weapon load is also 30 points.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 19:33:47


Post by: happy_inquisitor


 Shadenuat wrote:
Fixed Embarking to escape melee combat

Can someone explain this to me? I didn't get what is this about even though I did read the actual text of a change.


Yes, if you trapped an infantry model with your assault unit to avoid getting shot your opponent could have moved up a transport within 3" and the trapped infantry model vanished off the table by Embarking. Your unit then got shot to pieces. Clarified now so that it cannot happen, if the infantry cannot move then they cannot Embark.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 19:40:39


Post by: the_scotsman


 Apple Peel wrote:
Valkyrie nerf makes it so the only way to get hot-shot lasguns into rapid fire and doctrine triggering range is to walk them up. Ugh. Did they change that one Warlord trait for Harlequins to be consistent, or do they still get to move after disembarking from a moved vehicle?


Am I missing something, or can't you also disembark them normally?

Like, fly the valks/transports up turn 1, and disembark with the guys turn 2?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ServiceGames wrote:
With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG


No, because evidently guilliguns was the best way to run MEQs before, and I'd assume it is still now?


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 19:41:35


Post by: Xenomancers


 ServiceGames wrote:
With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG

They aren't hugely affected. Mostly their bikes got a lot worse. They are still pretty good though. Vets Deepstrike into range to fire 4 shots most the time anyways. Autobolters are still a great option for DW intercessors. Castellan going up in price and ynnari being squashed is an overall net gain IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the_scotsman wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
Valkyrie nerf makes it so the only way to get hot-shot lasguns into rapid fire and doctrine triggering range is to walk them up. Ugh. Did they change that one Warlord trait for Harlequins to be consistent, or do they still get to move after disembarking from a moved vehicle?


Am I missing something, or can't you also disembark them normally?

Like, fly the valks/transports up turn 1, and disembark with the guys turn 2?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ServiceGames wrote:
With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG


No, because evidently guilliguns was the best way to run MEQs before, and I'd assume it is still now?

Gman + Levi dread is so good its hard to compete with that with a marine list.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 19:44:20


Post by: Apple Peel


the_scotsman wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
Valkyrie nerf makes it so the only way to get hot-shot lasguns into rapid fire and doctrine triggering range is to walk them up. Ugh. Did they change that one Warlord trait for Harlequins to be consistent, or do they still get to move after disembarking from a moved vehicle?


Am I missing something, or can't you also disembark them normally?

Like, fly the valks/transports up turn 1, and disembark with the guys
I mean you could, yeah, but does that feel “stormtroopery” to you?
It really kills alpha strike.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 19:48:27


Post by: Daedalus81


 ServiceGames wrote:
With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG


No, because Ynnari, Lootas, and Castellans have fallen off the charts. That potentially makes room for them.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 19:49:23


Post by: Pain4Pleasure


 Daedalus81 wrote:
 ServiceGames wrote:
With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG


No, because Ynnari, Lootas, and Castellans have fallen off the charts. That potentially makes room for them.

Ynnari yes, we have to wait and see about aeldari soup in general. Still room for a lot of potential. I am VERY glad flier spam
Is gone though. Freaking hated that


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 19:52:08


Post by: Pandabeer


Well, that's a solid uppercut with the nerfbat for the Castellan. I think it's in a much more balanced place now. Also, yay for flying over stuff in the charge phase again!


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 19:54:57


Post by: Ice_can


 Daedalus81 wrote:
 ServiceGames wrote:
With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG


No, because Ynnari, Lootas, and Castellans have fallen off the charts. That potentially makes room for them.

To be fair non of those where the real reasons marines don't work, they simply cannot compete with IG codex for souping potential and competitive mono isn't likely to suddenly become the new meta.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 19:58:42


Post by: drakerocket


I think it is interesting that there are no new beta rules. I tend to think whatever 'fix' will come to the balance for soup it will first be a beta rule.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 19:59:16


Post by: Pain4Pleasure


Ice_can wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 ServiceGames wrote:
With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG


No, because Ynnari, Lootas, and Castellans have fallen off the charts. That potentially makes room for them.

To be fair non of those where the real reasons marines don't work, they simply cannot compete with IG codex for souping potential and competitive mono isn't likely to suddenly become the new meta.

Agreed. Marines are still in a bad spot, even with Bolter discipline


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:02:38


Post by: Tibs Ironblood


Hit the top end didn't really do anything for the low end. Still sad to see marine vehicles nerfed (lol why?) and not be buffed at all, but hey progress is progress.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:04:08


Post by: The Newman


drakerocket wrote:
I think it is interesting that there are no new beta rules. I tend to think whatever 'fix' will come to the balance for soup it will first be a beta rule.


That sounds like a safe bet actually. I'd bet GW got a lot of complaints about the current Ally rules in the community survey.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:08:51


Post by: Bharring


Maybe the fix for IoM soup, but Eldar Soup was hit hard in a number of ways with the FAQ.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:17:45


Post by: Marin


 Zontarz wrote:
If I’m reading this right LRBTs can now fire twice in overwatch, and if they are Cadian they get to re-rolls ones as well since it’s “count-as” the shooting phase?


Holy emperor...


Does that means dark reapers hit on 3 on overtwatch, since its like in the shooting phase ?
3 mounts waiting and than we need errata on the big faq.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:20:14


Post by: Daedalus81


Ice_can wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 ServiceGames wrote:
With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG


No, because Ynnari, Lootas, and Castellans have fallen off the charts. That potentially makes room for them.

To be fair non of those where the real reasons marines don't work, they simply cannot compete with IG codex for souping potential and competitive mono isn't likely to suddenly become the new meta.


IG soup is weaker by 100 points plus if they still take a Castellan. And weaker still with fly skipping their screens again. And marines are safer with disintegrators missing out on Doom and Ynnari loasing shoot twice.


There are far more factors at play here.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:20:25


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I'm very disappointed with the fact that they decided that Space Marine tanks don't get bolter drill.

Like, do space marines not use tanks? Why do they even make SM tank models if tanks aren't an important part of the Astartes way of war?
It's because SM tanks don't fire their bolters any differently to bolters on other tanks. However, their flesh and blood forces (plus their Dreadnoughts, who are more like MCs than Vehicles IMO) do use their bolters differently.

Just because they don't get Bolter Discipline doesn't mean they're any less Astartes.


Well, they already don't get Chapter Tactics because apparently Space Marine chapters don't use armored vehicles in their doctrines.

Space Marines probably have the weakest motor pool in the game. The Crusader didn't hurt anyone by having bolter drill. But they're going out of their way to delete vehicles from the Space Marine armory by perpetually excluding Space Marine vehicles from getting anything nice.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:21:53


Post by: Stux


 Daedalus81 wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 ServiceGames wrote:
With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG


No, because Ynnari, Lootas, and Castellans have fallen off the charts. That potentially makes room for them.

To be fair non of those where the real reasons marines don't work, they simply cannot compete with IG codex for souping potential and competitive mono isn't likely to suddenly become the new meta.


IG soup is weaker by 100 points plus if they still take a Castellan. And weaker still with fly skipping their screens again. And marines are safer with disintegrators missing out on Doom and Ynnari loasing shoot twice.


There are far more factors at play here.


Yeah it's too complex to call right now, there's a lot of moving pieces.

Late last year it was looking like Tyranids might make waves in tournaments, but it wasn't quite cutting it. This FAQ might give them a look in now, possibly with some GSC support.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:23:12


Post by: Insectum7


Ice_can wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 ServiceGames wrote:
With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG


No, because Ynnari, Lootas, and Castellans have fallen off the charts. That potentially makes room for them.

To be fair non of those where the real reasons marines don't work, they simply cannot compete with IG codex for souping potential and competitive mono isn't likely to suddenly become the new meta.


IG still never felt nearly as difficult to face as the Ynnari or the Castellan+friends. And a lot of the time a major ingredient for the Guard soup was the Castellan anyways. If I can aim the amount of effort it took to knock out that 3++ Castellan at LR Command tanks instead, the tanks vaporize. I feel like the FAQ will definitely open up my options a bit more a marine player.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:23:34


Post by: Pain4Pleasure


Bharring wrote:
Maybe the fix for IoM soup, but Eldar Soup was hit hard in a number of ways with the FAQ.


Correction, the standard aeldari soup. So many units and now hopefully people will steer away from the typical lists. We might see some new fun mixes. Coven and etc. I feel skyweavers have a decent place in new ynnari where as most don’t. Ancestors grave and that melee centric doom style power will work well with them. Obviously with shining spears too. Just things to think about


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:24:20


Post by: Bharring


 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

[...]Space Marines probably have the weakest motor pool in the game. [...]

Harlequins say hi.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:24:21


Post by: Ice_can


 Daedalus81 wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 ServiceGames wrote:
With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG


No, because Ynnari, Lootas, and Castellans have fallen off the charts. That potentially makes room for them.

To be fair non of those where the real reasons marines don't work, they simply cannot compete with IG codex for souping potential and competitive mono isn't likely to suddenly become the new meta.


IG soup is weaker by 100 points plus if they still take a Castellan. And weaker still with fly skipping their screens again. And marines are safer with disintegrators missing out on Doom and Ynnari loasing shoot twice.


There are far more factors at play here.

Dissy Cannons don't need DOOM against Marine's never have.
Again marines are imperial they arn't exactlly fighting with guard for that brigade/battalion CP powerhouse spot and outaide of BA smash command aren't realy beating out custodes for that screen skipping CC punch.
They bring 0 to imperial soup lists and foot marines arn't exactlly rocking the meta and arn't about to.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:25:52


Post by: Insectum7


 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Space Marines probably have the weakest motor pool in the game.


Except for Tyranids. . . nyuk nyuk.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:27:00


Post by: bananathug


Ice_can wrote:

They also changed is so it's all in on a execution force or 1 assasin only.


So no more vanguard assassin detachments of 3 assassins. It's either one of each, an aux detachment or the strat??

It doesn't feel like they come out and say that but after having read that section it seems like that is what they are trying to say.

This sucks as I like my vanguard detachment of assassins and it doesn't seem game breaking in any way...


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:27:24


Post by: Bharring


But now that Dissys can't pull decent AT duty with Doom, they aren't as automatic a choice over Brightlances.

Not that I expect that to change, but it's not nothing.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:28:08


Post by: Daedalus81


Ice_can wrote:

Dissy Cannons don't need DOOM against Marine's never have.


Of course not, but it's existence was a wet blanket to running larger units of more elite marines as well as more mono DE lists needing lances now.

Again marines are imperial they arn't exactlly fighting with guard for that brigade/battalion CP powerhouse spot


They don't need to be a CP powerhouse.

and outaide of BA smash command aren't realy beating out custodes for that screen skipping CC punch.


I think you'll find some quite interesting CSM builds coming into focus. When Primaris get their next wave the loyalists will get interesting.




April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:28:51


Post by: Ice_can


 Insectum7 wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 ServiceGames wrote:
With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG


No, because Ynnari, Lootas, and Castellans have fallen off the charts. That potentially makes room for them.

To be fair non of those where the real reasons marines don't work, they simply cannot compete with IG codex for souping potential and competitive mono isn't likely to suddenly become the new meta.


IG still never felt nearly as difficult to face as the Ynnari or the Castellan+friends. And a lot of the time a major ingredient for the Guard soup was the Castellan anyways. If I can aim the amount of effort it took to knock out that 3++ Castellan at LR Command tanks instead, the tanks vaporize. I feel like the FAQ will definitely open up my options a bit more a marine player.

Think you misinterpreted my point it's not that mono guard (as annoying as they are) are better than imperial soup it's that Guard will always be the better choice for imperial soup lists over marine infantry.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:30:27


Post by: Insectum7


 Daedalus81 wrote:

Of course not, but it's existence was a wet blanket to running larger units of more elite marines


So are a lot of things, though. The amount of high AP, multiwound weapons out there is pretty high.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:32:08


Post by: Ice_can


 Daedalus81 wrote:
Ice_can wrote:

Dissy Cannons don't need DOOM against Marine's never have.


Of course not, but it's existence was a wet blanket to running larger units of more elite marines as well as more mono DE lists needing lances now.

Again marines are imperial they arn't exactlly fighting with guard for that brigade/battalion CP powerhouse spot


They don't need to be a CP powerhouse.

and outaide of BA smash command aren't realy beating out custodes for that screen skipping CC punch.


I think you'll find some quite interesting CSM builds coming into focus. When Primaris get their next wave the loyalists will get interesting.



GW have had 2 years and haven't made primaris marines a competitive choice yet, unless they are just going to flat about make the soft squating blatant and make old marines and primaris the same points, they loose out way to much when you point battlr cannons etc at them.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:32:42


Post by: Insectum7


Ice_can wrote:

Think you misinterpreted my point it's not that mono guard (as annoying as they are) are better than imperial soup it's that Guard will always be the better choice for imperial soup lists over marine infantry.


I think that depends a lot on the mission of the soup-ingredient you're looking for, and with the Castellan nerf the soup might shift to allow some marine flavors, depending on what synergies you're looking for.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:34:47


Post by: Bharring


GW very clearly decided not to buff "OldMarines" in CA2018. It's not going to happen.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:35:39


Post by: ccs


 Xenomancers wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
The ability to insta-pop someone with either death grip or GSC mental onslaught has been removed - both now automatically fail if the defending model rolls a natural 6.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hand Flamers appear to have been updated to the D6 profile from the GSC codex for everybody.

Metal onslaught was just broken RAW, deathgrip taking 2 nerfs in the same FAQ was probably unnecessary.
Castellen is very dead now, expect to see them going for pennies on Ebay shortly.

Not really. If anything they are even better now - their biggest threats got nerfed. Doom/Jinx only effect CWE. Ynnari are dumpstered. I promise you every single castellan player would take 100 points out of their list to never have to play Ynnari and still win. 4++ Castellan is still really hard to kill. It's just not impossible. Plus Crusaders are much more appealing now. This is a good change.


And GW gains the most since they're about to sell all the Castellan players 2 Crusaders (or whatever).


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:36:27


Post by: Insectum7


Bharring wrote:
GW very clearly decided not to buff "OldMarines" in CA2018. It's not going to happen.


I disagree, some of the point shifts from December were quite significant.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:38:35


Post by: Martel732


Not nearly significant enough.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:39:34


Post by: Not Online!!!


Marin wrote:
 Zontarz wrote:
If I’m reading this right LRBTs can now fire twice in overwatch, and if they are Cadian they get to re-rolls ones as well since it’s “count-as” the shooting phase?


Holy emperor...


Does that means dark reapers hit on 3 on overtwatch, since its like in the shooting phase ?
3 mounts waiting and than we need errata on the big faq.


This, if true, will turn ugly fast.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:43:41


Post by: Insectum7


Martel732 wrote:
Not nearly significant enough.
If you happened to have a lot of Storm Shields it was

I just think the pot is stirring pretty quickly in terms of balance and there's enough moving parts to take a bit of time to sort out. The Castellan and Ynnari in particular have probably been suppressing the viability of other possibilities that are as-yet unseen.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:45:06


Post by: Horst


 Insectum7 wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Not nearly significant enough.
If you happened to have a lot of Storm Shields it was

I just think the pot is stirring pretty quickly in terms of balance and there's enough moving parts to take a bit of time to sort out. The Castellan and Ynnari in particular have probably been suppressing the viability of other possibilities that are as-yet unseen.


Certainly. Tank Commanders have started to see the light, I'd expect to see a LOT more of them going forward now that the biggest reason you didn't take them is gone. No more losing 2 tanks turn 1 guaranteed against a Castellan list.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:45:55


Post by: Martel732


The storm shields changed almost nothing for me.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:46:08


Post by: Pandabeer


 Zontarz wrote:
If I’m reading this right LRBTs can now fire twice in overwatch, and if they are Cadian they get to re-rolls ones as well since it’s “count-as” the shooting phase?


Holy emperor...


Exactly where are you seeing that? I can't find it.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:47:08


Post by: Daedalus81


Not Online!!! wrote:
Marin wrote:
 Zontarz wrote:
If I’m reading this right LRBTs can now fire twice in overwatch, and if they are Cadian they get to re-rolls ones as well since it’s “count-as” the shooting phase?


Holy emperor...


Does that means dark reapers hit on 3 on overtwatch, since its like in the shooting phase ?
3 mounts waiting and than we need errata on the big faq.


This, if true, will turn ugly fast.


Jesus guys come on. Being "in the shooting phase" doesn't remove this sentence.

Overwatch isresolved like a normal
shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy’s Charge
phase) and uses all the normal rules except that a 6 is
always required for a successful hitroll, irrespective of the
firing model’s Ballistic Skill or any modifiers.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:47:27


Post by: mokoshkana


Not Online!!! wrote:
Marin wrote:
 Zontarz wrote:
If I’m reading this right LRBTs can now fire twice in overwatch, and if they are Cadian they get to re-rolls ones as well since it’s “count-as” the shooting phase?


Holy emperor...


Does that means dark reapers hit on 3 on overtwatch, since its like in the shooting phase ?
3 mounts waiting and than we need errata on the big faq.


This, if true, will turn ugly fast.
Overwatch specifies that things only happen on 6's. Just because it is as if it were "the shooting phase," does not not override overwatch.

Ninja'd....


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:48:32


Post by: Ghaz


From the Codex Space Marines FAQ:

Q: If I use the Hellfire Shells or Flakk Missile Stratagem and I hit, do I continue to roll to wound and do damage normally in addition to doing mortal wounds?

A: No, the normal attack sequence ends.

I remember seeing this one going around and around in YMDC a while back. Glad that it's finally answered.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:49:52


Post by: Bharring


1. The ability to hit on a 3+ is neither a Ballistic Skill nor a Modifier - it's a specific roll needed.

2. Per the FAQ, if there are two such rules in effect, you apply the attacker's rule instead of the defender's rule - so the Reaper's rule would trump.

3. This is dumb - there's no way I'd play it with Reapers hitting on overwatch on a 3+.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:51:55


Post by: Insectum7


Yeah can we not make the Reapers thing the new "Obliterators are still 65 points!"?


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:52:40


Post by: Daedalus81


Bharring wrote:
1. The ability to hit on a 3+ is neither a Ballistic Skill nor a Modifier - it's a specific roll needed.

2. Per the FAQ, if there are two such rules in effect, you apply the attacker's rule instead of the defender's rule - so the Reaper's rule would trump.

3. This is dumb - there's no way I'd play it with Reapers hitting on overwatch on a 3+.


Yes, it will never fly in the real world so best people just put in an email and then leave it alone.

Also LRBTs won't double tap on OW since they can shoot twice "in the following shooing phase".


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:54:26


Post by: EnTyme


Can someone post the exact wording of the relevant rule for Reapers?


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:55:12


Post by: Insectum7


 Daedalus81 wrote:
Bharring wrote:
1. The ability to hit on a 3+ is neither a Ballistic Skill nor a Modifier - it's a specific roll needed.

2. Per the FAQ, if there are two such rules in effect, you apply the attacker's rule instead of the defender's rule - so the Reaper's rule would trump.

3. This is dumb - there's no way I'd play it with Reapers hitting on overwatch on a 3+.


Yes, it will never fly in the real world so best people just put in an email and then leave it alone.

Also LRBTs won't double tap on OW since they can shoot twice "in the following shooing phase".


Niiiice catch.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:56:45


Post by: mokoshkana


Bharring wrote:
1. The ability to hit on a 3+ is neither a Ballistic Skill nor a Modifier - it's a specific roll needed.

2. Per the FAQ, if there are two such rules in effect, you apply the attacker's rule instead of the defender's rule - so the Reaper's rule would trump.

3. This is dumb - there's no way I'd play it with Reapers hitting on overwatch on a 3+.
In this instance, the defender does not have an ability, it is the Overwatch rule specifically. As such, that most certainly supersedes any attacker special rules.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:57:16


Post by: Zontarz


Marin wrote:
 Zontarz wrote:
If I’m reading this right LRBTs can now fire twice in overwatch, and if they are Cadian they get to re-rolls ones as well since it’s “count-as” the shooting phase?


Holy emperor...


Does that means dark reapers hit on 3 on overtwatch, since its like in the shooting phase ?
3 mounts waiting and than we need errata on the big faq.


No, your Eldar FAQ states otherwise


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:58:24


Post by: mokoshkana


 Zontarz wrote:
Marin wrote:
 Zontarz wrote:
If I’m reading this right LRBTs can now fire twice in overwatch, and if they are Cadian they get to re-rolls ones as well since it’s “count-as” the shooting phase?


Holy emperor...


Does that means dark reapers hit on 3 on overtwatch, since its like in the shooting phase ?
3 mounts waiting and than we need errata on the big faq.


No, your Eldar FAQ states otherwise
Correct. This is specifically addressed in the CWE FAQ. Good catch!


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 20:58:25


Post by: Zontarz


As stated here:

Q: The Dark Reapers’ Inescapable Accuracy ability no longer mentions Overwatch. Does this mean that they can hit on Overwatch on rolls of 3+?

A: No. Inescapable Accuracy only affects attacks made in the Shooting phase.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 21:00:19


Post by: Daedalus81


 Zontarz wrote:
Marin wrote:
 Zontarz wrote:
If I’m reading this right LRBTs can now fire twice in overwatch, and if they are Cadian they get to re-rolls ones as well since it’s “count-as” the shooting phase?


Holy emperor...


Does that means dark reapers hit on 3 on overtwatch, since its like in the shooting phase ?
3 mounts waiting and than we need errata on the big faq.


No, your Eldar FAQ states otherwise


I can still see people arguing for it with circular logic. Best to ignore them, really.

Q: The Dark Reapers’ Inescapable Accuracy ability no longer
mentions Overwatch. Does this mean that they can hit on
Overwatch on rolls of 3+?

A: No. Inescapable Accuracy only affects attacks made in
the Shooting phase.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 21:02:13


Post by: Apple Peel


Bharring wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

[...]Space Marines probably have the weakest motor pool in the game. [...]

Harlequins say hi.

Taurox Primes say hi and wave hello.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 21:03:15


Post by: PiñaColada


So wait, I'm dumb, can someone explain to me how thousand sons rubricae now work with perils.

I throw out a smite, roll double 6's and get perils. I put it on the rubricae instead. I roll a d3 and 2 are slain let's say. Does the spell go off since the psyker throwing it didn't die? Does the perils explosion happen since a model with the pyker keyword is slain?


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 21:05:04


Post by: Insectum7


Speaking of Loyalist Marines, the answer to the Flakk/Hellfire with Cherub appears to have changed. It appears that you have to purchase the Stratagem again in order for the 2nd Hellfire shot. Which of course is not allowed for matched play.

Also you can explicitly measure from Drop Pod doors.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 21:05:35


Post by: Daedalus81


PiñaColada wrote:
So wait, I'm dumb, can someone explain to me how thousand sons rubricae now work with perils.

I throw out a smite, roll double 6's and get perils. I put it on the rubricae instead. I roll a d3 and 2 are slain let's say. Does the spell go off since the psyker throwing it didn't die? Does the perils explosion happen since a model with the pyker keyword is slain?


Maybe and yes as the unit still counts as a psyker even when the sorcerer is dead.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 21:09:29


Post by: happy_inquisitor


Not Online!!! wrote:
Marin wrote:
 Zontarz wrote:
If I’m reading this right LRBTs can now fire twice in overwatch, and if they are Cadian they get to re-rolls ones as well since it’s “count-as” the shooting phase?


Holy emperor...


Does that means dark reapers hit on 3 on overtwatch, since its like in the shooting phase ?
3 mounts waiting and than we need errata on the big faq.


This, if true, will turn ugly fast.


The Craftworlds FAQ still says a clear NO to that one.

Probably just as well, not sure the world has a sufficient salt supply otherwise


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 21:10:36


Post by: PiñaColada


 Daedalus81 wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
So wait, I'm dumb, can someone explain to me how thousand sons rubricae now work with perils.

I throw out a smite, roll double 6's and get perils. I put it on the rubricae instead. I roll a d3 and 2 are slain let's say. Does the spell go off since the psyker throwing it didn't die? Does the perils explosion happen since a model with the pyker keyword is slain?


Maybe and yes as the unit still counts as a psyker even when the sorcerer is dead.

But the explosion from a perils hits the unit throwing out the smite, yes? That's still so insanely punishing, taking 2d3 mortal wounds.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 21:17:05


Post by: Skullhammer


No explosion for perils as long as 1 of the models is alive as the unit counts as a psyker, not each individual. You still take the d3 for perils though.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 21:22:56


Post by: PiñaColada


Ooooh, looks like rubricae spam is back on the menu boys! Assuming you're right on that one then I'm truly happy here.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 21:37:20


Post by: ClockworkZion


 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I'm very disappointed with the fact that they decided that Space Marine tanks don't get bolter drill.

Like, do space marines not use tanks? Why do they even make SM tank models if tanks aren't an important part of the Astartes way of war?
It's because SM tanks don't fire their bolters any differently to bolters on other tanks. However, their flesh and blood forces (plus their Dreadnoughts, who are more like MCs than Vehicles IMO) do use their bolters differently.

Just because they don't get Bolter Discipline doesn't mean they're any less Astartes.


Well, they already don't get Chapter Tactics because apparently Space Marine chapters don't use armored vehicles in their doctrines.

Space Marines probably have the weakest motor pool in the game. The Crusader didn't hurt anyone by having bolter drill. But they're going out of their way to delete vehicles from the Space Marine armory by perpetually excluding Space Marine vehicles from getting anything nice.

Not to mention Bolter Drill helped the Rhino a fair bit since shooting 4 times at 24" was a big improvement for it. Even the Razorback was looking a smidge more viable with that option.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 21:38:02


Post by: AndrewC


 rollawaythestone wrote:
The clarification to "as if it were the shooting phase" means that you get lots of re-rolls in overwatch. Give Cawl a nice bonus.


Not really, remember rerolls still happen before modifiers. So lets say that you have 6 shots at BS3+ at overwatch. You roll 1,2,3,4,5,6. Your rerolls allow you to roll 2 dice again, because technically 3,4 and 5 are hits, which then become misses due to the fixed modifier.

Sorry.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 21:40:54


Post by: Bharring


Overwatch is still explicit about not allowing any modifiers. So, while the aura or buff does apply, you're still hitting on 6s only, not on 5s (unless otherwise stated).


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 21:41:53


Post by: ClockworkZion


 Insectum7 wrote:
Speaking of Loyalist Marines, the answer to the Flakk/Hellfire with Cherub appears to have changed. It appears that you have to purchase the Stratagem again in order for the 2nd Hellfire shot. Which of course is not allowed for matched play.

Also you can explicitly measure from Drop Pod doors.

This also means you can measure to drop pod doors as well. Though getting decent LOS off the ground against another target, even around a corner or something would take a bit of luck I'd assume.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 AndrewC wrote:
 rollawaythestone wrote:
The clarification to "as if it were the shooting phase" means that you get lots of re-rolls in overwatch. Give Cawl a nice bonus.


Not really, remember rerolls still happen before modifiers. So lets say that you have 6 shots at BS3+ at overwatch. You roll 1,2,3,4,5,6. Your rerolls allow you to roll 2 dice again, because technically 3,4 and 5 are hits, which then become misses due to the fixed modifier.

Sorry.

It's a bit vague, and I know the internet likes RAW to the point it breaks reality sometimes, but I feel like the RAI changes your BS to a 6 (no plus since you can't buff it) so a 5 down is a miss.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 21:45:32


Post by: Martel732


That's the way I have always seen it played.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 21:47:22


Post by: AndrewC


Martel732 wrote:
Is overwatch a modifier?


Yes, its a fixed modifier. I will need to look it up, unless BCB has it on an index, because someone will probably want a citation. GW put out an order of operations a couple of years back. It went rerolls, variable modifiers, then fixed modifiers. Overwatch is still a shooting attack, so the start point is still BS.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 21:49:04


Post by: The Forgemaster


 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Speaking of Loyalist Marines, the answer to the Flakk/Hellfire with Cherub appears to have changed. It appears that you have to purchase the Stratagem again in order for the 2nd Hellfire shot. Which of course is not allowed for matched play.

Also you can explicitly measure from Drop Pod doors.

This also means you can measure to drop pod doors as well. Though getting decent LOS off the ground against another target, even around a corner or something would take a bit of luck I'd assume.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 AndrewC wrote:
 rollawaythestone wrote:
The clarification to "as if it were the shooting phase" means that you get lots of re-rolls in overwatch. Give Cawl a nice bonus.


Not really, remember rerolls still happen before modifiers. So lets say that you have 6 shots at BS3+ at overwatch. You roll 1,2,3,4,5,6. Your rerolls allow you to roll 2 dice again, because technically 3,4 and 5 are hits, which then become misses due to the fixed modifier.

Sorry.

It's a bit vague, and I know the internet likes RAW to the point it breaks reality sometimes, but I feel like the RAI changes your BS to a 6 (no plus since you can't buff it) so a 5 down is a miss.


It doesn't matter for Cawl as he allows you to re-roll all dice (his ability is worded slightly differently), It may affect other models though...


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 21:51:14


Post by: ClockworkZion


 The Forgemaster wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Speaking of Loyalist Marines, the answer to the Flakk/Hellfire with Cherub appears to have changed. It appears that you have to purchase the Stratagem again in order for the 2nd Hellfire shot. Which of course is not allowed for matched play.

Also you can explicitly measure from Drop Pod doors.

This also means you can measure to drop pod doors as well. Though getting decent LOS off the ground against another target, even around a corner or something would take a bit of luck I'd assume.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 AndrewC wrote:
 rollawaythestone wrote:
The clarification to "as if it were the shooting phase" means that you get lots of re-rolls in overwatch. Give Cawl a nice bonus.


Not really, remember rerolls still happen before modifiers. So lets say that you have 6 shots at BS3+ at overwatch. You roll 1,2,3,4,5,6. Your rerolls allow you to roll 2 dice again, because technically 3,4 and 5 are hits, which then become misses due to the fixed modifier.

Sorry.

It's a bit vague, and I know the internet likes RAW to the point it breaks reality sometimes, but I feel like the RAI changes your BS to a 6 (no plus since you can't buff it) so a 5 down is a miss.


It doesn't matter for Cawl as he allows you to re-roll all dice (his ability is worded slightly differently), It may affect other models though...

It doesn't really bother Captains since the re-roll 1s to hit, but anyone who lets you re-roll misses is going to have some problems if GW doesn't let you reroll anything that isn't a 6.

That said, there are characters who just let you blanket reroll which can be hilarious.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 21:53:08


Post by: Insectum7


 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Speaking of Loyalist Marines, the answer to the Flakk/Hellfire with Cherub appears to have changed. It appears that you have to purchase the Stratagem again in order for the 2nd Hellfire shot. Which of course is not allowed for matched play.

Also you can explicitly measure from Drop Pod doors.

This also means you can measure to drop pod doors as well. Though getting decent LOS off the ground against another target, even around a corner or something would take a bit of luck I'd assume.


Well someone mentioned making movement walls with them, and with their surface area that seems like a potentially very irritating tactic in the right situation.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 21:56:00


Post by: Martel732


Pretty sure that the overwatch rule completely replaces checking BS numbers.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 21:57:33


Post by: AndrewC


@Clockwork

Overwatch has no impact on the BS. The rule itself says that it is resolved as a normal shooting attack. Using all the normal rules, but a 6 is required to hit.

So you use all the normal rules and then you're hit with a fixed modifier. Can only hit on a natural 6.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:03:20


Post by: Darsath


God, I hope this FAQ has an impact on the meta. It's looking like it will, too. I'm so sick of seeing the same factions played over and over again. Also I predict Tau will start to dominate pretty hard.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:04:10


Post by: ClockworkZion


 Insectum7 wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Speaking of Loyalist Marines, the answer to the Flakk/Hellfire with Cherub appears to have changed. It appears that you have to purchase the Stratagem again in order for the 2nd Hellfire shot. Which of course is not allowed for matched play.

Also you can explicitly measure from Drop Pod doors.

This also means you can measure to drop pod doors as well. Though getting decent LOS off the ground against another target, even around a corner or something would take a bit of luck I'd assume.


Well someone mentioned making movement walls with them, and with their surface area that seems like a potentially very irritating tactic in the right situation.

"Ha-ha! You can't step over this small step to charge at me, Cato Sicarius. That proves that I, Cato Sicarius, am a tactical genius on par with the Primarch himself!"

"CURSE YOU SICARIUS!"


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:04:33


Post by: Martel732


 AndrewC wrote:
@Clockwork

Overwatch has no impact on the BS. The rule itself says that it is resolved as a normal shooting attack. Using all the normal rules, but a 6 is required to hit.

So you use all the normal rules and then you're hit with a fixed modifier. Can only hit on a natural 6.


I'm not finding this "fixed modifier" thing anywhere. Citation?

Everything I'm finding says it bypasses BS altogether.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:04:49


Post by: Cynista


I'm kind of salty that the rumours of mono-codex CP buff were false. That would have made this FAQ a 5 star.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:06:46


Post by: Pain4Pleasure


Darsath wrote:
God, I hope this FAQ has an impact on the meta. It's looking like it will, too. I'm so sick of seeing the same factions played over and over again. Also I predict Tau will start to dominate pretty hard.

Not really. Castellan Ian still good. Yes he has a bigger weakness and can actually be killed, but still good and will be battery farmed. Aeldari factions have so many units, a broken combo soup wise will be discovered. It actually didn’t change as much as people think. All that changed is we might have a month or two before a combo is discovered. Guard is still a powerful army in its own right. Tau got a slight nerf as well. Keeping them in roughly the same spot they always were. Chaos got some buffs also. So you’re going to see the same armies.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:06:55


Post by: ClockworkZion


Cynista wrote:
I'm kind of salty that the rumours of mono-codex CP buff were false. That would have made this FAQ a 5 star.

4.5 stars is still pretty darn good.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:08:45


Post by: KingCorpus


This FAQ is huge ladies and gentlemen.

Knights, Ynnari, and Eldar soup nonsense out the door. Clarifications to wording, and even fly being changed back. Phenomenal.

They even changed the chaos renegades to match key words. Sorry, no khorne flawless host berzerkers.

Tasty!


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:09:19


Post by: Pain4Pleasure


Cynista wrote:
I'm kind of salty that the rumours of mono-codex CP buff were false. That would have made this FAQ a 5 star.


They actually addressed soup, what more do you want? They aren’t going to nerf soup into oblivion, they brought it in line. Be happy. They could of left it alone


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 KingCorpus wrote:
This FAQ is huge ladies and gentlemen.

Knights, Ynnari, and Eldar soup nonsense out the door. Clarifications to wording, and even fly being changed back. Phenomenal.

They even changed the chaos renegades to match key words. Sorry, no khorne flawless host berzerkers.

Tasty!


Nonsense in all of those soups is still there. It’s the current nonsense that’s gone. In two months you’ll see something new and complain about that


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:10:16


Post by: Argive


So overall a well done to GW?? I like how in-depth the FAQ went.

I'm glad they explained the rationale behind some of the old decisions and also owned up to the mistakes on their part. That took some cojones. I hope they learned a lesson that dumming down and stripping the rules to bare bones in a game of many moving parts doesn't work in the long run so its worth having a bit more meat on the rules moving forward.

Pretty happy with this and the ynnari nerf. Looks like they have been paying attention. Bit meh how this basicaly made it so that only IOM can soup effectively. But 40K wouldn't be 40k without IOM coming out slightly on top...

Looking forward to some future games


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:10:19


Post by: Martel732


Overwatch rules even state "irrespective of the firing model's ballistic skill or any modifiers".

Ballistic skill is out for overwatch.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:10:26


Post by: ClockworkZion


 KingCorpus wrote:
This FAQ is huge ladies and gentlemen.

Knights, Ynnari, and Eldar soup nonsense out the door. Clarifications to wording, and even fly being changed back. Phenomenal.

They even changed the chaos renegades to match key words. Sorry, no khorne flawless host berzerkers.

Tasty!

Fly didn't get "changed back" as you now have to take vertical distance into consideration when charging.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:20:06


Post by: Argive


Ok SO help me out here.. I feel a bit thick:

Page 178 – Re-rolls
Change this paragraph to read:
‘Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means
you get to roll some or all of the dice again. If a rule
allows you to re-roll a result that was made by adding
several dice together (e.g. 2D6, 3D6, etc.) then, unless
otherwise stated, you must roll all of those dice again.
You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls
happen before modifiers (if any) are applied.’


So I am correct to understand that this means you cant just cherry pick one of the charge dice but have to re-roll both?


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:20:17


Post by: Cynista


Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Cynista wrote:
I'm kind of salty that the rumours of mono-codex CP buff were false. That would have made this FAQ a 5 star.


They actually addressed soup, what more do you want? They aren’t going to nerf soup into oblivion, they brought it in line. Be happy. They could of left it alone

I think I made it pretty clear in one sentence what more I wanted. Also find it amusing that in the first half of your post you say that soup has been fixed, then go on to proclaim to another poster that soup is alive and well. Have some self awareness ffs

I noticed that all of your grief stricken grandstanding and FAQ predictions after the Ynnari nerf haven't come to pass. What a surprise


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:21:03


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


 Apple Peel wrote:
Bharring wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

[...]Space Marines probably have the weakest motor pool in the game. [...]

Harlequins say hi.

Taurox Primes say hi and wave hello.


Taurox Primes are part of a motor pool that also includes Manticores and Basilisks.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:23:42


Post by: ClockworkZion


 Argive wrote:
Ok SO help me out here.. I feel a bit thick:

Page 178 – Re-rolls
Change this paragraph to read:
‘Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means
you get to roll some or all of the dice again. If a rule
allows you to re-roll a result that was made by adding
several dice together (e.g. 2D6, 3D6, etc.) then, unless
otherwise stated, you must roll all of those dice again.
You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls
happen before modifiers (if any) are applied.’


So I am correct to understand that this means you cant just cherry pick one of the charge dice but have to re-roll both?

Yes, which is why some people use command re-rolls to get around that.

For example: Black Templars can re-roll their charge distance. If I need to charge 7" and I roll double 1s I'd use their re-roll but if I rolled a 5 and a 1 I'd use a command reroll to reroll only that 1.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:23:59


Post by: Pain4Pleasure


Cynista wrote:
Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Cynista wrote:
I'm kind of salty that the rumours of mono-codex CP buff were false. That would have made this FAQ a 5 star.


They actually addressed soup, what more do you want? They aren’t going to nerf soup into oblivion, they brought it in line. Be happy. They could of left it alone

I think I made it pretty clear in one sentence what more I wanted. Also find it amusing that in the first half of your post you say that soup has been fixed, then go on to proclaim to another poster that soup is alive and well. Have some self awareness ffs

I noticed that all of your grief stricken grandstanding and FAQ predictions after the Ynnari nerf haven't come to pass. What a surprise

Modern soup was fixed. Drukhari don’t benefit from Craftworlds abilities. Ynnari was nerfed to serve a different roll. And my previous comment is stating the now newer combinations of soup can be formulated instead of sticking to what works. Soup can be alive and still be fixed. What are you smoking? Yes ynnari got hit more than I had hoped, but now players just need to look at it as it serves a different purpose. It isn’t even technically out yet. Give it time and potential could be there. I see you simply wanted soup dead. Won’t happen. Go play 5th edition.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:25:49


Post by: Ordana


 Argive wrote:
Ok SO help me out here.. I feel a bit thick:

Page 178 – Re-rolls
Change this paragraph to read:
‘Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means
you get to roll some or all of the dice again. If a rule
allows you to re-roll a result that was made by adding
several dice together (e.g. 2D6, 3D6, etc.) then, unless
otherwise stated, you must roll all of those dice again.
You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls
happen before modifiers (if any) are applied.’


So I am correct to understand that this means you cant just cherry pick one of the charge dice but have to re-roll both?
An ability that says "This unit may re-roll failed charge rolls" has to re-roll both dice because a charge roll is a combination of 2 dice.
An ability that says "re-roll any single dice" still works because its re-rolling a dice and not a result.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok I want to run something by you all

This carification for the Tacticle Reserves rule means that Summoning is techinically a way to get around the turn 1 deepstrike restrictions?

Also note, that no part of this matched play rule applies to units that are added to your army
during the battle (such as those that require reinforcement points to be added); these units cannot be set up anywhere
(on the battlefield or otherwise) during deployment because they do not exist until the point where the rule that
‘creates’ them is used, and that point is always after deployment has finished.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:31:25


Post by: Apple Peel


 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
Bharring wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

[...]Space Marines probably have the weakest motor pool in the game. [...]

Harlequins say hi.

Taurox Primes say hi and wave hello.


Taurox Primes are part of a motor pool that also includes Manticores and Basilisks.

Not when playing pure Militarum Tempestus. Then the motor pool is Taurox Primes—overcosted, and Valkyries—just nerfed.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:31:31


Post by: ClockworkZion


Yup. Turn 1 summoning is a way around it. It's not exactly something I'd say is a -good- way around it, but it's a way around it.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:31:35


Post by: Twoshoes23


Not invested in the meta from a gameplay standpoint, though i do read up on it quite a bit. Happy that what apparently needed to be done was done. Also pleased the about the assasain strategem nerf as it felt a little cheesy to be able to cater to the enemy that easily. 2cp seems fair but i'll just run an aux detachment anyways.

Glad to see that the internet 4ppm guardsmen didn't end up in the FAQ as well, was not a fan of that salt-fest.

That ratling nerf though...jk


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:32:16


Post by: Cynista


Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Cynista wrote:
Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Cynista wrote:
I'm kind of salty that the rumours of mono-codex CP buff were false. That would have made this FAQ a 5 star.


They actually addressed soup, what more do you want? They aren’t going to nerf soup into oblivion, they brought it in line. Be happy. They could of left it alone

I think I made it pretty clear in one sentence what more I wanted. Also find it amusing that in the first half of your post you say that soup has been fixed, then go on to proclaim to another poster that soup is alive and well. Have some self awareness ffs

I noticed that all of your grief stricken grandstanding and FAQ predictions after the Ynnari nerf haven't come to pass. What a surprise

Modern soup was fixed. Drukhari don’t benefit from Craftworlds abilities. Ynnari was nerfed to serve a different roll. And my previous comment is stating the now newer combinations of soup can be formulated instead of sticking to what works. Soup can be alive and still be fixed. What are you smoking? Yes ynnari got hit more than I had hoped, but now players just need to look at it as it serves a different purpose. It isn’t even technically out yet. Give it time and potential could be there. I see you simply wanted soup dead. Won’t happen. Go play 5th edition.

No, I don't want it dead. I have no issue with soup from a narrative perspective. But it shouldn't be objectively better than mono builds from a gameplay standpoint. There should be a clear benefit to NOT souping up, extra CP's would be an easy fix. You say that they brought it in line - they didn't. They nerfed some of the all star units and combos. But cherry picking detachments from different books is still simply better than not doing so.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:37:16


Post by: Apple Peel


 Twoshoes23 wrote:
Not invested in the meta from a gameplay standpoint, though i do read up on it quite a bit. Happy that what apparently needed to be done was done. Also pleased the about the assasain strategem nerf as it felt a little cheesy to be able to cater to the enemy that easily. 2cp seems fair but i'll just run an aux detachment anyways.

Glad to see that the internet 4ppm guardsmen didn't end up in the FAQ as well, was not a fan of that salt-fest.

That ratling nerf though...jk

Valk nerf though.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:38:16


Post by: Karol


What I don't understand is why they put point changes in to the FAQ, everyone has been telling me that those are limited to CA, and will not happen outside of them. Bit confused by that.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:39:27


Post by: ClockworkZion


Karol wrote:
What I don't understand is why they put point changes in to the FAQ, everyone has been telling me that those are limited to CA, and will not happen outside of them. Bit confused by that.

For the Obliterators it was because of an error, for the Castellan it was because it was breaking the meta and something had to give before the next CA in the fall.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:39:46


Post by: Eihnlazer


 Argive wrote:
Ok SO help me out here.. I feel a bit thick:

Page 178 – Re-rolls
Change this paragraph to read:
‘Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means
you get to roll some or all of the dice again. If a rule
allows you to re-roll a result that was made by adding
several dice together (e.g. 2D6, 3D6, etc.) then, unless
otherwise stated, you must roll all of those dice again.
You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls
happen before modifiers (if any) are applied.’


So I am correct to understand that this means you cant just cherry pick one of the charge dice but have to re-roll both?



Oh wow I didn't catch this one. This is big. This means that for any rule that states you can Re-roll Charges, psychic tests, etc., you must now re-roll both dice. Obviously you could still command point reroll 1 of the dice, but it just blanket nerfs some re-roll abilities.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:43:48


Post by: Pain4Pleasure


Cynista wrote:
Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Cynista wrote:
Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Cynista wrote:
I'm kind of salty that the rumours of mono-codex CP buff were false. That would have made this FAQ a 5 star.


They actually addressed soup, what more do you want? They aren’t going to nerf soup into oblivion, they brought it in line. Be happy. They could of left it alone

I think I made it pretty clear in one sentence what more I wanted. Also find it amusing that in the first half of your post you say that soup has been fixed, then go on to proclaim to another poster that soup is alive and well. Have some self awareness ffs

I noticed that all of your grief stricken grandstanding and FAQ predictions after the Ynnari nerf haven't come to pass. What a surprise

Modern soup was fixed. Drukhari don’t benefit from Craftworlds abilities. Ynnari was nerfed to serve a different roll. And my previous comment is stating the now newer combinations of soup can be formulated instead of sticking to what works. Soup can be alive and still be fixed. What are you smoking? Yes ynnari got hit more than I had hoped, but now players just need to look at it as it serves a different purpose. It isn’t even technically out yet. Give it time and potential could be there. I see you simply wanted soup dead. Won’t happen. Go play 5th edition.

No, I don't want it dead. I have no issue with soup from a narrative perspective. But it shouldn't be objectively better than mono builds from a gameplay standpoint. There should be a clear benefit to NOT souping up, extra CP's would be an easy fix. You say that they brought it in line - they didn't. They nerfed some of the all star units and combos. But cherry picking detachments from different books is still simply better than not doing so.

See this response I like better. I agree that maybe +3 cp would of been nice for mono faction


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:43:54


Post by: Amishprn86


 Eihnlazer wrote:
 Argive wrote:
Ok SO help me out here.. I feel a bit thick:

Page 178 – Re-rolls
Change this paragraph to read:
‘Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means
you get to roll some or all of the dice again. If a rule
allows you to re-roll a result that was made by adding
several dice together (e.g. 2D6, 3D6, etc.) then, unless
otherwise stated, you must roll all of those dice again.
You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls
happen before modifiers (if any) are applied.’


So I am correct to understand that this means you cant just cherry pick one of the charge dice but have to re-roll both?



Oh wow I didn't catch this one. This is big. This means that for any rule that states you can Re-roll Charges, psychic tests, etc., you must now re-roll both dice. Obviously you could still command point reroll 1 of the dice, but it just blanket nerfs some re-roll abilities.


Thats how its always been. It will tell you if you were allowed to re-roll 1 dice


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:46:39


Post by: TangoTwoBravo


All in all an excellent FAQ. I had been hoping for the 4++ max on Knights, restricting Doom/Jinx to make Drukhari shooting not benefit, some reigning in of the Loota bomb, the Bolter Rules getting ratified and a cap on Mental Onslaught. What I did not see coming was the many adjustments to problem areas/ places where folks were abusing the rules. I totally didn't see the creation of a new unit type: Aircraft. This FAQ was much more significant than I had thought it would be.

I think that they have gone a long to way to fixing the aspects of Soup that were enraging while not destroying the concept. Adding in the Ynarri changes and I think that we can expect a shuffle in the top tables.

Perhaps most importantly, the GW 40K rules team has shown that it is engaged with the community, cares and makes an honest try at balancing/fixing things.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:50:11


Post by: Crimson


Cynista wrote:

No, I don't want it dead. I have no issue with soup from a narrative perspective. But it shouldn't be objectively better than mono builds from a gameplay standpoint. There should be a clear benefit to NOT souping up

There is a clear benefit. Usually all of your monoarmy can benefit from the same auras, buffs and psychic powers. They fixed the loophole that allowed other Eldar to benefit of some craftworld psychic powers. You may no think it is a big enough benefit, but it is a benefit.

I am certain that these changes will make monoarmies more prominent (if not dominant.) The biggest reasons to play the Eldar soup have been removed. Similarly the Castellan has been seriously nerfed, so I'm sure some players will choose to replace it with an IG superheavy, and as the other standard component was IG already, this will result a monoarmy.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:53:32


Post by: tneva82


Karol wrote:
What I don't understand is why they put point changes in to the FAQ, everyone has been telling me that those are limited to CA, and will not happen outside of them. Bit confused by that.


"Everybody" is wrong. They have put those there before. Why anybody thinks they wouldn't put again?


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:56:00


Post by: Ice_can


 Crimson wrote:
Cynista wrote:

No, I don't want it dead. I have no issue with soup from a narrative perspective. But it shouldn't be objectively better than mono builds from a gameplay standpoint. There should be a clear benefit to NOT souping up

There is a clear benefit. Usually all of your monoarmy can benefit from the same auras, buffs and psychic powers. They fixed the loophole that allowed other Eldar to benefit of some craftworld psychic powers. You may no think it is a big enough benefit, but it is a benefit.

I am certain that these changes will make monoarmies more prominent (if not dominant.) The biggest reasons to play the Eldar soup have been removed. Similarly the Castellan has been seriously nerfed, so I'm sure some players will choose to replace it with an IG superheavy, and as the other standard component was IG already, this will result a monoarmy.

Seriously doubt mono codex armies are going to be a thing even with the changes.
You say they will drop the Castellen, I suspect it might stay or if it does it could be traded for a crusader.
Also with the fly climb down Guard will be back to draging along Blood angles or Dawneagles.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 22:59:41


Post by: ClockworkZion


Ice_can wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
Cynista wrote:

No, I don't want it dead. I have no issue with soup from a narrative perspective. But it shouldn't be objectively better than mono builds from a gameplay standpoint. There should be a clear benefit to NOT souping up

There is a clear benefit. Usually all of your monoarmy can benefit from the same auras, buffs and psychic powers. They fixed the loophole that allowed other Eldar to benefit of some craftworld psychic powers. You may no think it is a big enough benefit, but it is a benefit.

I am certain that these changes will make monoarmies more prominent (if not dominant.) The biggest reasons to play the Eldar soup have been removed. Similarly the Castellan has been seriously nerfed, so I'm sure some players will choose to replace it with an IG superheavy, and as the other standard component was IG already, this will result a monoarmy.

Seriously doubt mono codex armies are going to be a thing even with the changes.
You say they will drop the Castellen, I suspect it might stay or if it does it could be traded for a crusader.
Also with the fly climb down Guard will be back to draging along Blood angles or Dawneagles.

Some mono dexes are still good (Dark Eldar apparently is sitting pretty after the changes) but it definitely doesn't push the game into favoring mono dexes over allies.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 23:01:26


Post by: Pain4Pleasure


Ice_can wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
Cynista wrote:

No, I don't want it dead. I have no issue with soup from a narrative perspective. But it shouldn't be objectively better than mono builds from a gameplay standpoint. There should be a clear benefit to NOT souping up

There is a clear benefit. Usually all of your monoarmy can benefit from the same auras, buffs and psychic powers. They fixed the loophole that allowed other Eldar to benefit of some craftworld psychic powers. You may no think it is a big enough benefit, but it is a benefit.

I am certain that these changes will make monoarmies more prominent (if not dominant.) The biggest reasons to play the Eldar soup have been removed. Similarly the Castellan has been seriously nerfed, so I'm sure some players will choose to replace it with an IG superheavy, and as the other standard component was IG already, this will result a monoarmy.

Seriously doubt mono codex armies are going to be a thing even with the changes.
You say they will drop the Castellen, I suspect it might stay or if it does it could be traded for a crusader.
Also with the fly climb down Guard will be back to draging along Blood angles or Dawneagles.

Exactly, for imperials. Eldar will take shining spears, sky weavers, reavers etc. I suspect we will see units we haven’t in awhile in a few lists the upcoming months trying out different variations of soup. Like I said earlier soup lists that we KNEW are gone. New ones will take their place. People were using what worked then. Now people will use what works with these new rules


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 23:02:37


Post by: Crimson


 ClockworkZion wrote:
but it definitely doesn't push the game into favoring mono dexes over allies.

And that shouldn't be the goal anyway. They both should be equally viable.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 23:03:09


Post by: Argive


 Eihnlazer wrote:
 Argive wrote:
Ok SO help me out here.. I feel a bit thick:

Page 178 – Re-rolls
Change this paragraph to read:
‘Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means
you get to roll some or all of the dice again. If a rule
allows you to re-roll a result that was made by adding
several dice together (e.g. 2D6, 3D6, etc.) then, unless
otherwise stated, you must roll all of those dice again.
You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls
happen before modifiers (if any) are applied.’


So I am correct to understand that this means you cant just cherry pick one of the charge dice but have to re-roll both?



Oh wow I didn't catch this one. This is big. This means that for any rule that states you can Re-roll Charges, psychic tests, etc., you must now re-roll both dice. Obviously you could still command point reroll 1 of the dice, but it just blanket nerfs some re-roll abilities.


I think this mostly applies to charges. I cant think of anything else that adds up 2d6? Maybe some weapons/eldar vehicle 2d6 advance....

By taking this as RAW I interpret this to mean mean you cant re-roll just one die from a charge roll using a command re-roll (Unless command re-roll specifically lets you re-roll one of the die I.E. like runes of the farseer does - I don't have the brb with me at work so cant check this)

Any thoughts or am I just not getting it ??
What have they actualy changed it from in terms of original rule.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 23:04:47


Post by: ClockworkZion


 Crimson wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
but it definitely doesn't push the game into favoring mono dexes over allies.

And that shouldn't be the goal anyway. They both should be equally viable.

I agree, but that's what some of the "proposed changes" I see from people are: a push to make mono dex better than soup instead of equal to.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 23:07:24


Post by: Ghaz


tneva82 wrote:
Karol wrote:
What I don't understand is why they put point changes in to the FAQ, everyone has been telling me that those are limited to CA, and will not happen outside of them. Bit confused by that.


"Everybody" is wrong. They have put those there before. Why anybody thinks they wouldn't put again?

Usually they're just adjustments for the most egregious cases or a problem caused by the FAQ itself. The bulk of the points adjustments will still be in Chapter Approved.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 23:09:37


Post by: Ice_can


 Crimson wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
but it definitely doesn't push the game into favoring mono dexes over allies.

And that shouldn't be the goal anyway. They both should be equally viable.

Except you implied that these changes mean the game favours mono.
It almost definitely seams to be that people are still sticking to soup, the best flavour is still to be identified, but soup is still much more powerful than mono codex.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 23:14:09


Post by: Burnage


Ice_can wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
but it definitely doesn't push the game into favoring mono dexes over allies.

And that shouldn't be the goal anyway. They both should be equally viable.

Except you implied that these changes mean the game favours mono.
It almost definitely seams to be that people are still sticking to soup, the best flavour is still to be identified, but soup is still much more powerful than mono codex.


It's not even been 12 hours since the FAQ dropped, it's a little early to definitively state that the meta hasn't shifted towards mono lists.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 23:14:59


Post by: Insectum7


 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Speaking of Loyalist Marines, the answer to the Flakk/Hellfire with Cherub appears to have changed. It appears that you have to purchase the Stratagem again in order for the 2nd Hellfire shot. Which of course is not allowed for matched play.

Also you can explicitly measure from Drop Pod doors.

This also means you can measure to drop pod doors as well. Though getting decent LOS off the ground against another target, even around a corner or something would take a bit of luck I'd assume.


Well someone mentioned making movement walls with them, and with their surface area that seems like a potentially very irritating tactic in the right situation.

"Ha-ha! You can't step over this small step to charge at me, Cato Sicarius. That proves that I, Cato Sicarius, am a tactical genius on par with the Primarch himself!"

"CURSE YOU SICARIUS!"


Sounds ridiculous but you could wall off a Knight for a turn.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 23:16:32


Post by: Crimson


Ice_can wrote:

Except you implied that these changes mean the game favours mono.

No I didn't. The point was that these changes make the mono more viable than it was before.

It almost definitely seams to be that people are still sticking to soup, the best flavour is still to be identified, but soup is still much more powerful than mono codex.

We'll see.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 23:17:39


Post by: The Newman


 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Speaking of Loyalist Marines, the answer to the Flakk/Hellfire with Cherub appears to have changed. It appears that you have to purchase the Stratagem again in order for the 2nd Hellfire shot. Which of course is not allowed for matched play.

Also you can explicitly measure from Drop Pod doors.

This also means you can measure to drop pod doors as well. Though getting decent LOS off the ground against another target, even around a corner or something would take a bit of luck I'd assume.


Well someone mentioned making movement walls with them, and with their surface area that seems like a potentially very irritating tactic in the right situation.

"Ha-ha! You can't step over this small step to charge at me, Cato Sicarius. That proves that I, Cato Sicarius, am a tactical genius on par with the Primarch himself!"

"CURSE YOU SICARIUS!"


I award to 200 internet points!


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 23:20:41


Post by: Eldarsif


Exactly, for imperials. Eldar will take shining spears, sky weavers, reavers etc.


Eldar will take reavers they say. Good joke is good.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 23:22:15


Post by: Pain4Pleasure


 Eldarsif wrote:
Exactly, for imperials. Eldar will take shining spears, sky weavers, reavers etc.


Eldar will take reavers they say. Good joke is good.

The new charging rules for fliers could have potential benefits, and potentially the new ynnari. Have you personally tested all of the new rules already? If so I commend you


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 23:25:03


Post by: Imateria


Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
Cynista wrote:

No, I don't want it dead. I have no issue with soup from a narrative perspective. But it shouldn't be objectively better than mono builds from a gameplay standpoint. There should be a clear benefit to NOT souping up

There is a clear benefit. Usually all of your monoarmy can benefit from the same auras, buffs and psychic powers. They fixed the loophole that allowed other Eldar to benefit of some craftworld psychic powers. You may no think it is a big enough benefit, but it is a benefit.

I am certain that these changes will make monoarmies more prominent (if not dominant.) The biggest reasons to play the Eldar soup have been removed. Similarly the Castellan has been seriously nerfed, so I'm sure some players will choose to replace it with an IG superheavy, and as the other standard component was IG already, this will result a monoarmy.

Seriously doubt mono codex armies are going to be a thing even with the changes.
You say they will drop the Castellen, I suspect it might stay or if it does it could be traded for a crusader.
Also with the fly climb down Guard will be back to draging along Blood angles or Dawneagles.

Exactly, for imperials. Eldar will take shining spears, sky weavers, reavers etc. I suspect we will see units we haven’t in awhile in a few lists the upcoming months trying out different variations of soup. Like I said earlier soup lists that we KNEW are gone. New ones will take their place. People were using what worked then. Now people will use what works with these new rules

No one will be running Reavers. They were neither survivable enough or killy enough to be viable the last time they could jump screens, nothing in this has changed that.

I suspect that for the most part Aeldari soup will fall apart into mono forces. Drukhari I think may end up a little better but will then struggle when they come up against a list with 2+ Knights in it, whilst Craftworlders with 6 flyers, Jinx and Doom will nuke them off the table. I suspect this will push Drukhari back towards 9 Talos as our most relaible method of dealing with Knights and just praying to avoid deep striking Deathwatch Veterans with Storm Bolters and Storm Shields


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 23:26:19


Post by: Pain4Pleasure


I still think soup eldar is the way to go, so I disagree with you


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 23:32:15


Post by: Ordana


The Craftworld flyers still want DE ones to deal with mass infantry and Ravagers are still great, just not perfect against everything.

Eldar soup will be fine.

Knight + Guard soup will still be fine. Either by just absorbing the extra cost of the Castellan or by switching it out for Crusaders.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 23:32:23


Post by: Burnage


Pain4Pleasure wrote:
I still think soup eldar is the way to go, so I disagree with you


It feels more open now, though. Like, I'm planning on running Eldar soup as well, but it no longer feels like the obviously correct choice to me. If I wasn't so attached to certain Craftworld units I'd very happily be running a pure Drukhari force.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 23:33:38


Post by: Crimson


 Burnage wrote:

It feels more open now, though. Like, I'm planning on running Eldar soup as well, but it no longer feels like the obviously correct choice to me. If I wasn't so attached to certain Craftworld units I'd very happily be running a pure Drukhari force.

Which sounds exactly like it should be!


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/29 23:41:12


Post by: Gordoape


 Burnage wrote:
Pain4Pleasure wrote:
I still think soup eldar is the way to go, so I disagree with you


If I wasn't so attached to certain Craftworld units I'd very happily be running a pure Drukhari force.

Not to poke fun but that kind of sums it up though, doesn't it?


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/30 00:00:34


Post by: Karol


tneva82 wrote:
Karol wrote:
What I don't understand is why they put point changes in to the FAQ, everyone has been telling me that those are limited to CA, and will not happen outside of them. Bit confused by that.


"Everybody" is wrong. They have put those there before. Why anybody thinks they wouldn't put again?

Hey last year that is what I have been told when the FAQ rolled up, so that is why I am suprised. Last three updates I may have been angry, now I look at the FAQ and feel nothing. It fixed nothing in my army, save for some reason nerfing heed, but I guess it was too good. I fully expect GW to give a full write up of a new codex in a WD or something. It makes no sense to me for GW to put so much time in to factions that are already doing well, and doing nerfs to one that is doing bad. Unless they have a new codex ready. Cant find any other explanation.


On the other hand am happy that I did not cave in and didn't buy a land raider crusader for my termintors. So all in all seems to be a good FAQ.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/30 00:06:21


Post by: ClockworkZion


Karol wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Karol wrote:
What I don't understand is why they put point changes in to the FAQ, everyone has been telling me that those are limited to CA, and will not happen outside of them. Bit confused by that.


"Everybody" is wrong. They have put those there before. Why anybody thinks they wouldn't put again?

Hey last year that is what I have been told when the FAQ rolled up, so that is why I am suprised. Last three updates I may have been angry, now I look at the FAQ and feel nothing. It fixed nothing in my army, save for some reason nerfing heed, but I guess it was too good. I fully expect GW to give a full write up of a new codex in a WD or something. It makes no sense to me for GW to put so much time in to factions that are already doing well, and doing nerfs to one that is doing bad. Unless they have a new codex ready. Cant find any other explanation.


On the other hand am happy that I did not cave in and didn't buy a land raider crusader for my termintors. So all in all seems to be a good FAQ.

At the end of the day it's to make the RAW more like the RAI, even if it means clubbing the baby seal armies to do it.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/30 00:07:50


Post by: alextroy


FAQs are rarely about making units or armies better. They are about making the rules do what they are supposed to do and knocking back the most egregious problems in the game. The Bolter Discipline rule is about the only Buff I can recall seeing in any of the FAQs that isn't a side effect of fixing a misinterpreted or badly written rule.

As for Points changes in FAQs, we now have two Spring Big FAQs with a few points increase and a Fall Big FAQ with no changes. We also have two December Chapter Approved with lots of points changes. I expect we may be seeing a trend on when to expect points changes of any sort.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/30 00:08:45


Post by: xeen


I think this is the best FAQ that we could have hoped for. GW was not going to make monster changes (like changing how CP is generated), but this does address a bunch of issues. The Eldar power nerf is how those powers should always have been, and everyone should have saw the Castellen thing coming with the 4++ because that is exactly what they did with Tzeentch Daemons. I don't know about the point cost though, I have not played against it enough. For my armies I am very happy with CSM and TS. The big ones are the Renegade legions that are god specific now have to be god specific, again that is how is should have been from the start. The Legion traits for CSM now apply to Characters, Infantry, Bikes, and Hellbrutes. That is great as now the Lord of Discord can take traits which makes him really good (I suspect you will see lists with 3 of him Alpha Legion or Flawless Host as the new list people hate). And the ability to put mortal wounds on the Rubrics is cool as one perils does not kill my sorcerer (and then more troops) with that squad. I would have liked to have seen cultists go back to 4 points, but I really didn't expect that. To me the only real major issue that still exists is the -2 Eldar planes.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/30 00:19:20


Post by: Karol


 alextroy wrote:
FAQs are rarely about making units or armies better. They are about making the rules do what they are supposed to do and knocking back the most egregious problems in the game. The Bolter Discipline rule is about the only Buff I can recall seeing in any of the FAQs that isn't a side effect of fixing a misinterpreted or badly written rule.

As for Points changes in FAQs, we now have two Spring Big FAQs with a few points increase and a Fall Big FAQ with no changes. We also have two December Chapter Approved with lots of points changes. I expect we may be seeing a trend on when to expect points changes of any sort.


Does make sense, and I agree with it. Even if heed was nerfed as part of anti knight nerfs. But what did the brotherhood champion did to the meta, to deserv more then one nerf? I don't think anyone used him, so his changes being 50% of GK FAQ seems like pure comedy. And I mean this as something funny. Is there like a amount of pink they have to add to each FAQ, and the heed change alone would look kind of a small, specially considering GK have one of the smallest FAQ of all factions


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/30 00:27:59


Post by: The Newman


I was really hoping that they'd alter Bolter Discipline to do something for the units that have a Bolt Something That Isn't Rapid Fire as their main weapon, I'm sure they got a lot of feedback to the effect that those weapons now look bad by comparison.

Hopefully they'll either adjust points or stats to address that when CA comes out.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/30 00:32:51


Post by: Insectum7


The Newman wrote:
I was really hoping that they'd alter Bolter Discipline to do something for the units that have a Bolt Something That Isn't Rapid Fire as their main weapon, I'm sure they got a lot of feedback to the effect that those weapons now look bad by comparison.

Hopefully they'll either adjust points or stats to address that when CA comes out.


I think the main goal with that one is to effect the main "vanilla" marine units, so Rapid-Fire it is. Also, I actually can't think of many non Rapid-Fire bolt weapons other than the Agressor ones and Heavy Bolters (which are in their own rough spot).

I mean, there's Bolt Pistols but standing still to fire twice with Assault Marines isn't really what anyone expects.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/30 00:54:53


Post by: Seabass


 Crimson wrote:
 Burnage wrote:

It feels more open now, though. Like, I'm planning on running Eldar soup as well, but it no longer feels like the obviously correct choice to me. If I wasn't so attached to certain Craftworld units I'd very happily be running a pure Drukhari force.

Which sounds exactly like it should be!


I agree. I think my new soup list looks like min battalion of archons and blaster calabites in venoms to make the minimum, then 3 crimson hunter exarchs and 3 hemlocks


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/30 01:01:17


Post by: Ghaz


 alextroy wrote:
FAQs are rarely about making units or armies better. They are about making the rules do what they are supposed to do and knocking back the most egregious problems in the game. The Bolter Discipline rule is about the only Buff I can recall seeing in any of the FAQs that isn't a side effect of fixing a misinterpreted or badly written rule.

As for Points changes in FAQs, we now have two Spring Big FAQs with a few points increase and a Fall Big FAQ with no changes. We also have two December Chapter Approved with lots of points changes. I expect we may be seeing a trend on when to expect points changes of any sort.

GW explicitly told us that Chapter Approved is where we'll see the majority of points adjustments.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/12/15/the-future-of-faqs-and-chapter-approved-dec-15gw-homepage-post-2/

3: Chapter Approved

As new codexes arrive, and certain styles of army come in and out of fashion, the relative effectiveness of certain units in matched play will change. So we’ll be using Chapter Approved as a chance to reassess the points values of all units across the game (just like we did with the first Chapter Approved).

The FAQs will only have points adjustments for the most egregious cases or when the FAQ itself causes a problem or when they feel its necessary to not wait for Chapter Approved. Otherwise they will be in Chapter Approved.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/30 01:08:46


Post by: Karol


The FAQs will only have points adjustments for the most egregious cases or when the FAQ itself causes a problem or when they feel its necessary to not wait for Chapter Approved. Otherwise they will be in Chapter Approved.

Both ways or only when something is too good ?


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/30 01:25:02


Post by: Ghaz


Karol wrote:
The FAQs will only have points adjustments for the most egregious cases or when the FAQ itself causes a problem or when they feel its necessary to not wait for Chapter Approved. Otherwise they will be in Chapter Approved.

Both ways or only when something is too good ?

That's up to GW to decide.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/30 02:20:54


Post by: Lobukia


The FAQs will only have points adjustments for the most egregious cases or when the FAQ itself causes a problem or when they feel its necessary to not wait for Chapter Approved. Otherwise they will be in Chapter Approved.


Seems to me that they held to that. Bravo to them


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/30 02:50:16


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


 Apple Peel wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
Bharring wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

[...]Space Marines probably have the weakest motor pool in the game. [...]

Harlequins say hi.

Taurox Primes say hi and wave hello.


Taurox Primes are part of a motor pool that also includes Manticores and Basilisks.

Not when playing pure Militarum Tempestus. Then the motor pool is Taurox Primes—overcosted, and Valkyries—just nerfed.


There's no standalone Militarum Tempestus army; just a very irritating relic from when they were trying to split everything up into as tiny a subfaction as possible with 4 total units taken by subdividing a single entry in another book, where there was Codex Skitarii and Codex: Ad Mech as separate things, one of which didn't even have an HQ to field a Combined Arms Detachment with.

Harlequins have a legitimate argument. I'd also observe that in exchange for the really low toughness, they have open topped and -1 to hit on their armored personnel carriers, and all have invulnerable saves and fly, but I don't have enough experience with Harlequins to decisively make that claim.

I'm mostly just irritated that there seems to be a coherent effort to remove tanks from Marine armies, and or a perception that Marines should not have tanks.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/30 03:19:07


Post by: Pain4Pleasure


 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
Bharring wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

[...]Space Marines probably have the weakest motor pool in the game. [...]

Harlequins say hi.

Taurox Primes say hi and wave hello.


Taurox Primes are part of a motor pool that also includes Manticores and Basilisks.

Not when playing pure Militarum Tempestus. Then the motor pool is Taurox Primes—overcosted, and Valkyries—just nerfed.


There's no standalone Militarum Tempestus army; just a very irritating relic from when they were trying to split everything up into as tiny a subfaction as possible with 4 total units taken by subdividing a single entry in another book, where there was Codex Skitarii and Codex: Ad Mech as separate things, one of which didn't even have an HQ to field a Combined Arms Detachment with.

Harlequins have a legitimate argument. I'd also observe that in exchange for the really low toughness, they have open topped and -1 to hit on their armored personnel carriers, and all have invulnerable saves and fly, but I don't have enough experience with Harlequins to decisively make that claim.

I'm mostly just irritated that there seems to be a coherent effort to remove tanks from Marine armies, and or a perception that Marines should not have tanks.

Harlequins are in a weird place where they have really decent rules and their stat lines and damage output are pretty good as well melee wise, but they have to get there.. 50/50 invul is a blessing AND a curse, if that makes sense? I love them though. I think troupe could use the SLIGHTEST points decrease, but that’s all.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/30 03:37:05


Post by: Apple Peel


 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
Bharring wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

[...]Space Marines probably have the weakest motor pool in the game. [...]

Harlequins say hi.

Taurox Primes say hi and wave hello.


Taurox Primes are part of a motor pool that also includes Manticores and Basilisks.

Not when playing pure Militarum Tempestus. Then the motor pool is Taurox Primes—overcosted, and Valkyries—just nerfed.


There's no standalone Militarum Tempestus army; just a very irritating relic from when they were trying to split everything up into as tiny a subfaction as possible with 4 total units taken by subdividing a single entry in another book, where there was Codex Skitarii and Codex: Ad Mech as separate things, one of which didn't even have an HQ to field a Combined Arms Detachment with.

Harlequins have a legitimate argument. I'd also observe that in exchange for the really low toughness, they have open topped and -1 to hit on their armored personnel carriers, and all have invulnerable saves and fly, but I don't have enough experience with Harlequins to decisively make that claim.

I'm mostly just irritated that there seems to be a coherent effort to remove tanks from Marine armies, and or a perception that Marines should not have tanks.

There are standalone Militarum Tempestus armies. Militarum Tempestus is a subfaction of Astra Militarum in the more or less the same fashion that Custodes and Sisters of Silence are factions of the Talons of the Emperor that armies can be made from.
Being a Astra Militarum subfaction, they use many similar support units that the Guard use. But Militarum Tempestus and IG play entirely differently.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/30 03:37:40


Post by: Tiberius501


The only thing this FAQ didn't address is the silly CP spamming with detachments and soup. I'd love for it to become much more of a fixed number for everyone.
And Bolter Drill would've been better if it was changed to +1 shot if you stand still or within half, but that's been mentioned a few times here, and I'm glad DW ammunition can't use it anymore. Shame about tanks though.
Otherwise this FAQ is really good.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/30 04:01:27


Post by: Eldenfirefly


Bolter drill is still amazing. I love it. And I love that they finalised bolter drill so quickly.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/30 04:10:39


Post by: Pain4Pleasure


The FAQ was never going to make everyone happy, but I think it did well to make a lot of people happy.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/30 04:20:07


Post by: bullyboy


In the overall scheme of things, I do not believe marine vehicles got a nerf. Bolter discipline was a nice bonus, but it hardly made it worth fielding anything more than before, not while Castellans were around and haywire/doom was there to counter knights. However, with the drop of the Castellan, 3++ knights, haywire/doom combos, will we see the need for such overwhelming amounts of AT in our lists? If that's the case, maybe marine vehicles start to hit the table again. Dare I say it, maybe the occasional Land Raider?


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/30 04:41:56


Post by: The Newman


 Insectum7 wrote:
The Newman wrote:
I was really hoping that they'd alter Bolter Discipline to do something for the units that have a Bolt Something That Isn't Rapid Fire as their main weapon, I'm sure they got a lot of feedback to the effect that those weapons now look bad by comparison.

Hopefully they'll either adjust points or stats to address that when CA comes out.


I think the main goal with that one is to effect the main "vanilla" marine units, so Rapid-Fire it is. Also, I actually can't think of many non Rapid-Fire bolt weapons other than the Agressor ones and Heavy Bolters (which are in their own rough spot).

I mean, there's Bolt Pistols but standing still to fire twice with Assault Marines isn't really what anyone expects.


Autobolters, Stalker Bolt Rifles, Bolt Carbides, Assault Bolters, the aforementioned Boltstorm Gauntlets, and scout shotguns if you're feeling generous. I'd include Bolt Pistols and Heavy Bolt Pistols in that list as well, if only because Assault Marines and Reivers really need a boost of some sort, and the Gravis Captain's pistol variant of the Boltstorm Gauntlet.

I wouldn't necessarily expect Bolter Discipline to grant extra shots to those weapons if the bearer doesn't move, but I had hoped it would grant some other appropriate bonus to them. For example; Bolt weapons with Assault do not suffer the to-hit penalty for Advancing, Bolt weapons with Heavy can reroll failed to-wound rolls if they don't move, and Bolt weapons with Pistol allow the bearer to make one extra attack in melee using the pistol's profile. Or something.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/30 05:02:18


Post by: Insectum7


^aka primaris stuff. So no wonder why I don't think of it.


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/30 05:25:44


Post by: Brother Castor


As I posted in the other thread:

 Brother Castor wrote:
Not much in there to affect me (Ultramarines and Renegade Knights player).

I guess my Whirlwind no longer gets the beta bolters rule for it's storm bolter. I don't run any Dominus class knights and the 4++ max invuln puts me on a level playing field with Imperial Knights


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/30 06:37:34


Post by: Vaktathi


 Apple Peel wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
Bharring wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

[...]Space Marines probably have the weakest motor pool in the game. [...]

Harlequins say hi.

Taurox Primes say hi and wave hello.


Taurox Primes are part of a motor pool that also includes Manticores and Basilisks.

Not when playing pure Militarum Tempestus. Then the motor pool is Taurox Primes—overcosted, and Valkyries—just nerfed.


There's no standalone Militarum Tempestus army; just a very irritating relic from when they were trying to split everything up into as tiny a subfaction as possible with 4 total units taken by subdividing a single entry in another book, where there was Codex Skitarii and Codex: Ad Mech as separate things, one of which didn't even have an HQ to field a Combined Arms Detachment with.

Harlequins have a legitimate argument. I'd also observe that in exchange for the really low toughness, they have open topped and -1 to hit on their armored personnel carriers, and all have invulnerable saves and fly, but I don't have enough experience with Harlequins to decisively make that claim.

I'm mostly just irritated that there seems to be a coherent effort to remove tanks from Marine armies, and or a perception that Marines should not have tanks.

There are standalone Militarum Tempestus armies. Militarum Tempestus is a subfaction of Astra Militarum in the more or less the same fashion that Custodes and Sisters of Silence are factions of the Talons of the Emperor that armies can be made from.
Being a Astra Militarum subfaction, they use many similar support units that the Guard use. But Militarum Tempestus and IG play entirely differently.
To be fair, in this instance, that was rather forced by the regiment-subfaction system in 8E (otherwise they'd just be treated largely like Vets were in previous editions), and in the previous edition by basically just removing 90% of the IG codex from use (they had no exclusive units themselves) if you wanted to run stormtroopers as Troops, but there were also Vets which were basically treated identically and used in subsitution of older 4E rules that allowed Stormtroopers as troops (e.g. Grenadiers).


April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs) @ 2019/04/30 06:55:57


Post by: AngryAngel80


Over all looks pretty good.

The Nerf to Bolter rule for DW hurts a little but my army was never optimized greatly so didn't really abuse it was nice for awhile.

The marine vehicles losing it sucks bad though, felt good on my black stars, which already are meh, felt good on the crusaders and rhinos. I get the reasoning sort of , but who was thinking marine bolter vehicles were rampaging over the world ? I don't think I saw one rant for it.

No guard nerfs aside from the valk and storm troopers thing so that they can't get into half range for the hellguns, that sucks and feels a little needless. At least the guard stayed 4 points though. I guess that is the consolation for keeping people from having rapid fire storm trooper nightmares as they were spreading fear, along side beta bolter land raider crusaders. Thank god we are saved from them now.


Edit: As a Tempestus solo player, they do function a deal differently than a regular AM list will. There are work arounds to the limitations of course for deatchments but solo MT is a thing with super limited options. How they came about, and what they are a hold over from doesn't really matter at this point. Though I don't think Taurox primes are very over costed right now. They were very cheap for awhile when the edition dropped, the climate has changed since then though. They aren't that bad off though. They just are very glass hammer and if you are playing solo MT they are needed and you'll find them worth it. I have to assume most who say they suck didn't play them for awhile at the start of the edition or through the changes in a solo MT force.

Now last edition, last edition they sucked a lot. That is how I can tell the difference as I needed them then, and they were real bad but necessary. Now they just aren't the best but can still put some good fire down.