Where are the MASSIVE sigmar marine pictures from? You'd have thought this sort of PR stunt would be something a company would advertise and crow about to all and sundry.
I love the Aquila as much as the next guy but let me be honest, to the eyes of the uninitiated it made GWHQ look like a splinter branch of the Third Reich.
Now, the Stormcast Eternal still don't cut it for me. I kind of like the idea of fantasy Marines, and aesthetically they kind of remind me of the Broken Lords, which are my favorite faction in Endless Legend (after the Vaulters, that is).
I think it has to do with their basic infantry being... well, too samey and basic. Sometimes I look at them and see less Marines and more Necron Warriors, which are one of the less inspiring infantry units in all of 40k in my opinion.
Ok, well, first post, but seeing as everyone else has had a pop, thought I might as well too.
For me personally I am disappointed that all the fluff I liked has gone, but I guess I should have expected that after End Times.
I will be giving this a go as it seems everyone who plays this are using the word fun when describing it including friends who managed to get a game this weekend,
That being said I will be looking closely at the new KoW rules which are out this week for my mass battle needs.
Have to say the new minitures are a bit of a mixed bag for me, I like the Khorhe stuff but less keen on the Sigmarines although the Custodes conversion is making me think of conversions.
TrapdoorResident wrote: Ok, well, first post, but seeing as everyone else has had a pop, thought I might as well too.
For me personally I am disappointed that all the fluff I liked has gone, but I guess I should have expected that after End Times.
I will be giving this a go as it seems everyone who plays this are using the word fun when describing it including friends who managed to get a game this weekend,
That being said I will be looking closely at the new KoW rules which are out this week for my mass battle needs.
Have to say the new minitures are a bit of a mixed bag for me, I like the Khorhe stuff but less keen on the Sigmarines although the Custodes conversion is making me think of conversions.
The fluff is still there lol. Unless there's been a massive Nazi-style book burning session. Besides, everyone's been asking for story progression in WHFB for yonks. GW answered that request with an apocalypse event lol.
ok yeah, its still there but the stuff I was into is not going to progress now, and I know people were calling for story progression it just seems a shame it had to be quite so harsh.
TrapdoorResident wrote: Ok, well, first post, but seeing as everyone else has had a pop, thought I might as well too.
For me personally I am disappointed that all the fluff I liked has gone, but I guess I should have expected that after End Times.
I will be giving this a go as it seems everyone who plays this are using the word fun when describing it including friends who managed to get a game this weekend,
That being said I will be looking closely at the new KoW rules which are out this week for my mass battle needs.
Have to say the new minitures are a bit of a mixed bag for me, I like the Khorhe stuff but less keen on the Sigmarines although the Custodes conversion is making me think of conversions.
The fluff is still there lol. Unless there's been a massive Nazi-style book burning session. Besides, everyone's been asking for story progression in WHFB for yonks. GW answered that request with an apocalypse event lol.
The current fluff is now no longer being supported by GW. I would have been one of those people calling for story progression but the apocalytic stuff from End Times was a ridiculous direction to go in. Having a lot of characters killed off was justifiable up to a point but blowing up the world (based on c. 30 years of background) was absurd.
TrapdoorResident wrote:ok yeah, its still there but the stuff I was into is not going to progress now, and I know people were calling for story progression it just seems a shame it had to be quite so harsh.
Agree entirely. I don't know what confidence can be had in the new fluff comparing well to what was done in the past. Matter of waiting and seeing I guess
H.B.M.C. wrote: Every solution posted in this thread on how the game can work as a competitive game involves either changing or ignoring existing rules.
I hope everyone sees why that highlights the problems with the AoS rules more than any thing else.
Not really, because thats what every game does. You always need a separate tournament ruleset.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Every solution posted in this thread on how the game can work as a competitive game involves either changing or ignoring existing rules.
I hope everyone sees why that highlights the problems with the AoS rules more than any thing else.
Not really, because thats what every game does. You always need a separate tournament ruleset.
Are you sure? I've not seen a separate tournament ruleset for any game. I've seen a few tournaments with restrictions/house rules but outside of GW those are usually a single A4 page consisting of "don't be a dick".
H.B.M.C. wrote: Every solution posted in this thread on how the game can work as a competitive game involves either changing or ignoring existing rules.
I hope everyone sees why that highlights the problems with the AoS rules more than any thing else.
Not really, because thats what every game does. You always need a separate tournament ruleset.
Erm, no? There's rules for the tournament but they very rarely change the actual rules for the game, it's more things like painting guidelines and what to do if people are cheating.
He definately does not know about Warmachine .. yes, there is an FAQ and Errata, but tournamentplay is EXACTLY like the "regular" play.
The way it should be.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:I'm usually scornful of GW, especially regarding their prices and poor value for money but I noticed something when I was looking at the new Terminator Genysis wargame starter set.
Any comparisons to unlicensed box sets?
insaniak wrote:
Shadowclaimer wrote: Part of the reason for the scale change is simply because its doable now.
None of that is anything to do with increasing the scale. Models being more realistically proportioned doesn't automatically result in bigger miniatures.
Yup. People have been producing more realistically proportioned plastic minis in smaller scales for decades. Some of it's even in HIPS. (Looking at me box of PSC 20mm WWII infantry)
And sigmarines still aren't so well proportioned. Their giant golden trousers are hoiked halfway up to their sternum.
MWHistorian wrote:There's a difference between an un-serious game and one that doesn't take the source material seriously.
I fear that AOS is the latter.
This! First you must fill your head with knowledge. Then you can hit bricks with it.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Maybe try and be less condescending, eh?
I thought that's what this topic was for...
scarletsquig wrote:
GW - "Almost".
Spoiler:
guru wrote:WTF
Blimey! I thought that thing was a spoof someone had photoshopped up!
Death By Monkeys wrote:
And bear with me on this analogy - I'm in no way implying that GW has a fraction of the innovative spark that Apple has - but in a weird way, this reminds me of Apple releasing the iMac.
I don't know if anyone else remembers when Apple first came out with the colored, bulbous iMacs. It was a complete redesign of the Mac from their old off-white boxes. But one of the most curious omissions (at least at the time) with the iMac was the lack of a disk drive. It had a CD drive and you could connect it to the internet. And sure, that's the standard now. But remember back to those dark old days when we still used floppies. It was a radical thought to mass-produce a computer with no floppy drive. But Apple did. And they went with it.
I get what you're saying, but I don't know if this is so much like technology marching on. If an iMac's outer case is analogous to minis, and the tech inside analogous to game rules, AoS feels like an iMac with a tape deck...
TrapdoorResident wrote:Ok, well, first post, but seeing as everyone else has had a pop, thought I might as well too.
I will be giving this a go as it seems everyone who plays this are using the word fun when describing it including friends who managed to get a game this weekend
Hello! How are ya. The thing about the use of the word 'fun' is, something like Snakes 'n' Ladders or Ludo can be fun. Doesn't make them particularly deep, tailored to player agency, or constantly replayable, though!
Xyxox wrote:I wish I had been a fly on the wall at Mantic Games HQ this morning.
I think I can hear Ronnie laughing from here.
angelofvengeance wrote: The fluff is still there lol. Unless there's been a massive Nazi-style book burning session.
Might be if you try using it in a GW store before too long, tho.
Besides, everyone's been asking for story progression in WHFB for yonks. GW answered that request with an apocalypse event lol.
Yeah, all those people asking for a drink of water, daring to complain when you hold their head underwater 'til they drown. Ingrates.
ToxicBox wrote:You never know unless you give it a shot It might surprise you.
When I say "it won't work", I don't look forward to moving a couple hundred models individually, even if it's just for pile ins. Not to mention almost certainly giving my opponent Sudden Death conditions. It's just doesn't sound remotely fun.
That's not to say Skaven can't work, just MY skaven. I guess moving to a Moulder list with lots of Rat Ogres or something could work, but then you need plenty of Packmasters to boost them.
I'm also sad that "warlord on a bonebreaker" didn't get a warscroll, or at least the option to BE on a bonebreaker on the Warlord scroll. Now it's just a rat ogre.
TalonZahn wrote:Surely there's a rule stating you can place a block of stinky cheese on the table and if your opponent mentions it, you auto-win?
I was honestly surprised that the only "silly" rule for skaven was the whole "13 on the Screaming Bell" thing.
Mort wrote:Yeah, going -strictly- by wounds just helps to contain the problem a little - it is definitely not a firm 'fix'. Some armies basic 1-wound models do not compare to 1-wound models of other armies.
But it -does- help keep the game from reaching ridiculous levels, and I think that's what Mik is aiming for.
It helps "contain" the problem for certain armies though. I feel like others are going to get left in the cold, but it's Mik's tournament and I do look forward to seeing the results.
insaniak wrote:
The bigger problem is the lack of flights, and the ring on the end that they're using to draw it back is going to hit that index finger and make the 'arrow' tumble.
Wait, it doesn't bother anyone that even the people excited by AoS are saying that the game can probably be fixed? I'm sorry, but that should not be the case. A 4 page rule set that doesn't work?
Awesome. So far, Sigmarines have been a symbol of fail to me, I love that GW is so committed as to adorn their HQ with it.
"This is the new GW success story - let's celebrate in advance!" Please tell me they didn't replace the Space Marine..
One thing that's cool: they probably used the existing CAD files for making this thing. I'm guessing they just split the sprues in two through the centerline, so each bit is split in the middle, and it's simply made out of carved blocks of hard plastic foam (wood-like carving plastic) with a large 3-axis CNC wood mill that's available in pretty much any industrial wood shop. Few hours of machine time, then assemble, paint, done - and the whole thing probably only cost them a few grand.
Really? Anyone able to point me to a company in the UK who can do this? My wife may not agree, but I can foresee an awesome garden statue!
sarpedons-right-hand wrote: Wait, it doesn't bother anyone that even the people excited by AoS are saying that the game can probably be fixed? I'm sorry, but that should not be the case. A 4 page rule set that doesn't work?
hmmmmmmm.....
Yeah, it does seem like the majority of people saying it's good are saying 'if you house rule this... And ignore that... Then it's good!' It's not good then, surely...
RoninXiC wrote: He definately does not know about Warmachine .. yes, there is an FAQ and Errata, but tournamentplay is EXACTLY like the "regular" play.
The way it should be.
Apart from tweaking army selection (dual lists with no repeat characters, etc) and victory conditions, you mean. Which is pretty much what needs tweaking in AoS for tourney play.
RoninXiC wrote: He definately does not know about Warmachine .. yes, there is an FAQ and Errata, but tournamentplay is EXACTLY like the "regular" play.
The way it should be.
Apart from tweaking army selection (dual lists with no repeat characters, etc) and victory conditions, you mean. Which is pretty much what needs tweaking in AoS for tourney play.
It tweaks army selection in as much as it tells you what sized game you're playing and how many lists to take, it doesn't have to add in a whole army balancing system like would be needed for AoS.
RoninXiC wrote: He definately does not know about Warmachine .. yes, there is an FAQ and Errata, but tournamentplay is EXACTLY like the "regular" play.
The way it should be.
Apart from tweaking army selection (dual lists with no repeat characters, etc) and victory conditions, you mean. Which is pretty much what needs tweaking in AoS for tourney play.
Yeah, everything but the barebones of what makes a game, a game. It's been said but I feel the same way; if I "fix" AoS so that it's acceptable for pick-up and tournament play, I might as well run the design studio at GW because obviously noone there is.
sarpedons-right-hand wrote: Wait, it doesn't bother anyone that even the people excited by AoS are saying that the game can probably be fixed? I'm sorry, but that should not be the case. A 4 page rule set that doesn't work?
hmmmmmmm.....
Incorrect. *Some* people excited by AoS are saying that the game can be fixed. To me, it works fine as it is. The daft rules are all voluntary, so if you don't want to hop on one leg whilst rolling the dice upside down to get a minor bonus, you don't have to. And I'm quite happy playing a game without points. Been doing that for years.
I have said that if *you* don't like it, then you can fix it yourself or play something else. That doesn't mean the game is inherently bad, it just means you don't like it. Which is okay, everyone's different.
Also, I'd like to point out that if you really hate the lack of balance, they did say they were releasing a tournament book or something like that with a balancing system in it. We don't know if it'll be any good, but it's apparently coming. Think of it like Forces of Fantasy, Ravening Hordes or Warhammer Armies - which were all supplements for Warhammer editions 1 to 3 that enabled tournament play by using points. They say there will be no points in AOS ever, but they do say they'll have a balancing system.
ImAGeek wrote: Yeah, it does seem like the majority of people saying it's good are saying 'if you house rule this... And ignore that... Then it's good!' It's not good then, surely...
Genuine question for the Mods. Some on here would like a thread to check rumours, see new releases. AoS will see huge amounts of new models.
Can I or someone that isn't just reposting smartass comments, memes and backslapping over the same jokes start a new thread? I'd like to have a thread where I can check, an see new stuff with a little bit of conversation. Bit like the Forgeworld thread. Not have to wade through pages of moaning. Ta!
H.B.M.C. wrote: Every solution posted in this thread on how the game can work as a competitive game involves either changing or ignoring existing rules.
I hope everyone sees why that highlights the problems with the AoS rules more than any thing else.
Not really, because thats what every game does. You always need a separate tournament ruleset.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Every solution posted in this thread on how the game can work as a competitive game involves either changing or ignoring existing rules.
I hope everyone sees why that highlights the problems with the AoS rules more than any thing else.
Not really, because thats what every game does. You always need a separate tournament ruleset.
Erm, no? There's rules for the tournament but they very rarely change the actual rules for the game, it's more things like painting guidelines and what to do if people are cheating.
Erm, no? Most GW tourney stuff I've seen , if not all, changes the rules of army building by limiting this or that option, unbound, Forge World prohibitions/allowances, placing armies in Tiers so frex dwarves don't get rolled by Chaos (7th ed), etc.
Since army building (points) is the thing people are complaining about, having to set limits/handicaps is what's been done for ages with GW and other games.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Every solution posted in this thread on how the game can work as a competitive game involves either changing or ignoring existing rules.
I hope everyone sees why that highlights the problems with the AoS rules more than any thing else.
Not really, because thats what every game does. You always need a separate tournament ruleset.
X-Wing and literally every other miniature wargame in existence other than 40K and now AoS.
The Division Of Joy wrote: Genuine question for the Mods. Some on here would like a thread to check rumours, see new releases. AoS will see huge amounts of new models.
Can I or someone that isn't just reposting smartass comments, memes and backslapping over the same jokes start a new thread? I'd like to have a thread where I can check, an see new stuff with a little bit of conversation. Bit like the Forgeworld thread. Not have to wade through pages of moaning. Ta!
We are going to reorganise things a bit once AOS actually launches.
A rumours thread is a good idea. Probably will have one.
Erm, no? Most GW tourney stuff I've seen , if not all, changes the rules of army building by limiting this or that option, unbound, Forge World prohibitions/allowances, placing armies in Tiers so frex dwarves don't get rolled by Chaos (7th ed), etc.
Since army building (points) is the thing people are complaining about, having to set limits/handicaps is what's been done for ages with GW and other games.
Not "GW and other games", that kind of thing only happens with GW games. Other games have this strange little thing called balance.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Every solution posted in this thread on how the game can work as a competitive game involves either changing or ignoring existing rules.
I hope everyone sees why that highlights the problems with the AoS rules more than any thing else.
Not really, because thats what every game does. You always need a separate tournament ruleset.
Erm, no? There's rules for the tournament but they very rarely change the actual rules for the game, it's more things like painting guidelines and what to do if people are cheating.
Erm, no? Most GW tourney stuff I've seen , if not all, changes the rules of army building by limiting this or that option, unbound, Forge World prohibitions/allowances, placing armies in Tiers so frex dwarves don't get rolled by Chaos (7th ed), etc.
Since army building (points) is the thing people are complaining about, having to set limits/handicaps is what's been done for ages with GW and other games.
Yeah the key point there is 'GW tourney stuff', other games don't require all that because their rules work sufficiently for tournaments without having to do loads of extra stuff to balance it.
sarpedons-right-hand wrote: Wait, it doesn't bother anyone that even the people excited by AoS are saying that the game can probably be fixed? I'm sorry, but that should not be the case. A 4 page rule set that doesn't work?
hmmmmmmm.....
Incorrect. *Some* people excited by AoS are saying that the game can be fixed. To me, it works fine as it is. The daft rules are all voluntary, so if you don't want to hop on one leg whilst rolling the dice upside down to get a minor bonus, you don't have to. And I'm quite happy playing a game without points. Been doing that for years.
I have said that if *you* don't like it, then you can fix it yourself or play something else. That doesn't mean the game is inherently bad, it just means you don't like it. Which is okay, everyone's different.
Also, I'd like to point out that if you really hate the lack of balance, they did say they were releasing a tournament book or something like that with a balancing system in it. We don't know if it'll be any good, but it's apparently coming. Think of it like Forces of Fantasy, Ravening Hordes or Warhammer Armies - which were all supplements for Warhammer editions 1 to 3 that enabled tournament play by using points. They say there will be no points in AOS ever, but they do say they'll have a balancing system.
You seem to be taking my post personally? Not sure why as that was only my second post in 261 pages.. As for the old Ravening Hordes lists and things, that's great. But to completely alienate a whole group of gamers who grew up with using a points system as a balancing tool? For me, personally, the complete lack of balance means that there really is no point. Even friendly games need some sort of balance. You might as well play Pontoon and be done with it...
The Division Of Joy wrote: Genuine question for the Mods. Some on here would like a thread to check rumours, see new releases. AoS will see huge amounts of new models.
Can I or someone that isn't just reposting smartass comments, memes and backslapping over the same jokes start a new thread? I'd like to have a thread where I can check, an see new stuff with a little bit of conversation. Bit like the Forgeworld thread. Not have to wade through pages of moaning. Ta!
We are going to reorganise things a bit once AOS actually launches.
A rumours thread is a good idea. Probably will have one.
Good news
This might as well go in discussions now anyway.
Worth pointing out that the next set of leaks will start today or tomorrow, so sooner the new thread is here the better.
sarpedons-right-hand wrote: Wait, it doesn't bother anyone that even the people excited by AoS are saying that the game can probably be fixed? I'm sorry, but that should not be the case. A 4 page rule set that doesn't work?
hmmmmmmm.....
Incorrect. *Some* people excited by AoS are saying that the game can be fixed. To me, it works fine as it is. The daft rules are all voluntary, so if you don't want to hop on one leg whilst rolling the dice upside down to get a minor bonus, you don't have to. And I'm quite happy playing a game without points. Been doing that for years.
I have said that if *you* don't like it, then you can fix it yourself or play something else. That doesn't mean the game is inherently bad, it just means you don't like it. Which is okay, everyone's different.
Also, I'd like to point out that if you really hate the lack of balance, they did say they were releasing a tournament book or something like that with a balancing system in it. We don't know if it'll be any good, but it's apparently coming. Think of it like Forces of Fantasy, Ravening Hordes or Warhammer Armies - which were all supplements for Warhammer editions 1 to 3 that enabled tournament play by using points. They say there will be no points in AOS ever, but they do say they'll have a balancing system.
You seem to be taking my post personally? Not sure why as that was only my second post in 261 pages.. As for the old Ravening Hordes lists and things, that's great. But to completely alienate a whole group of gamers who grew up with using a points system as a balancing tool? For me, personally, the complete lack of balance means that there really is no point. Even friendly games need some sort of balance. You might as well play Pontoon and be done with it...
I didn't take it personally. However, you made a statement that everyone that is excited by AoS is saying you have to fix the game to make it work. But that isn't true.
Also, you seem to have misunderstood something somewhere... a GW rep has said that there will be a balancing system coming out for the tournament players. It might not use points, but it will use something. Maybe it'll be better, maybe it'll be worse. Who knows. But points systems are not the only way of creating balance. My point about ravening Hordes etc is that it was released in much the same way as this appears to be - a supplement to allow tournament players to have balanced games. Give it time. Or not, that's your prerogative. But there's no point arguing with me about it.
Fenrir Kitsune wrote: Where are the MASSIVE sigmar marine pictures from? You'd have thought this sort of PR stunt would be something a company would advertise and crow about to all and sundry.
I'm not sure what you mean here. That's the outside of Warhammer World, Nottingham. I guess it's now Sigmarworld.
fellblade wrote: So... has anyone done a post yet to compare rumor to reality? What was accurate, what was gak, and which sources are creditable (credible? incredible?)?
And once that's over, we could stick a fork in this thread and call it done.
I think we will know GW's true vision of the game when the individual boxes of Stormcast Eternals with Glaives/bows etc come out. The possibility of 5 man "pocket money" (well relatively) boxes for say £15/$24 US? But I doubt it when individual clam pack characters will be released for similar/greater amounts of money.
If the first releases are 10 man boxes for £30/$48US (or more?) then I think the GW may not see this as the skirmish sized game that most initial AOS battle reports seem to indicate is best suited for the rules.
H.B.M.C. wrote: One of the pictures posted in this thread showed off all the models (or their electronic CAD brethren). One thing that it showed was that the Khorne Cultist guys didn't have to have a Standard and a Horn.
Is this correct? Is it possible to not have 2 standard bearers and 2 musicians?
Yep, that unit has 2 identical sprues. Both have options for standard and musician. So you can have 1 unit of 20 with Musician/standard, 2 units of 10 with Musician/standard or a unit of 20 with neither.
Very useful if you are buying multiple Goretide sprues online.
Blacksails wrote: By that very narrow definition, then sure, but its still goal post moving.
Your post was about GW organizing a tournament. The underlying point was about whether or not GW ever wanted a competitive scene.
As for organizing, I'm sure the overwhelming majority of people will feel that the likes of 'Ard Boyz is indeed 'official', seeing as it had GW money and rules support, and was put forward entirely by GW on their own initiative. The only difference between your definition and mine is the location. Pretty shaky argument if you ask me.
As for wanting a competitive scene, it'd be pretty hard to argue that even with your incredibly narrow perspective of 'official', 'Ard Boyz clearly demonstrates that for a time, GW was interested and supported competitive play through an 'official' tournament run across NA.
But if you'd prefer to feel smug about being technically correct by your own (arbitrary) definition, then yes, you're right.
To me, it seems fairly clear why GWUK was interested in squashing 'Ard Boyz. If GW is to sponsor something, it should be encouraging not just the sale of kits, but the sale of paint, overpriced brushes, glues and modeling tools, etc. And neither armies of sloppily assembled grey plastic nor the behaviors encouraged by a "hardcore" event for big prizes market the hobby in the way that GW desires.
Seems like a classic case of a sales force not being aligned with the company's strategic goals. It probably could have been adjusted instead of being axed, but c'est la vie.
To me, it seems fairly clear why GWUK was interested in squashing 'Ard Boyz. If GW is to sponsor something, it should be encouraging not just the sale of kits, but the sale of paint, overpriced brushes, glues and modeling tools, etc. And neither armies of sloppily assembled grey plastic nor the behaviors encouraged by a "hardcore" event for big prizes market the hobby in the way that GW desires.
Seems like a classic case of a sales force not being aligned with the company's strategic goals. It probably could have been adjusted instead of being axed, but c'est la vie.
Which then raises the question of why set it up in the first place? As with all things GW, the more you dive into it, the more you're left scratching your head.
But yeah, an adjustment would have been infinitely better than axing it. If I were to don my armchair CEO armour, I'd think that properly supported 'official' (some people have differing opinions on official it seems) tournaments encourage sales, drive interest, cement communities, and can be used to gather valuable data pertaining to game balance and issues for FAQs/Errata.
But, I'm just a government employee, so business acumen is not my forte.
Blacksails wrote: By that very narrow definition, then sure, but its still goal post moving.
Your post was about GW organizing a tournament. The underlying point was about whether or not GW ever wanted a competitive scene.
As for organizing, I'm sure the overwhelming majority of people will feel that the likes of 'Ard Boyz is indeed 'official', seeing as it had GW money and rules support, and was put forward entirely by GW on their own initiative. The only difference between your definition and mine is the location. Pretty shaky argument if you ask me.
As for wanting a competitive scene, it'd be pretty hard to argue that even with your incredibly narrow perspective of 'official', 'Ard Boyz clearly demonstrates that for a time, GW was interested and supported competitive play through an 'official' tournament run across NA.
But if you'd prefer to feel smug about being technically correct by your own (arbitrary) definition, then yes, you're right.
To me, it seems fairly clear why GWUK was interested in squashing 'Ard Boyz. If GW is to sponsor something, it should be encouraging not just the sale of kits, but the sale of paint, overpriced brushes, glues and modeling tools, etc. And neither armies of sloppily assembled grey plastic nor the behaviors encouraged by a "hardcore" event for big prizes market the hobby in the way that GW desires.
Seems like a classic case of a sales force not being aligned with the company's strategic goals. It probably could have been adjusted instead of being axed, but c'est la vie.
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: I think we will know GW's true vision of the game when the individual boxes of Stormcast Eternals with Glaives/bows etc come out. The possibility of 5 man "pocket money" (well relatively) boxes for say £15/$24 US? But I doubt it when individual clam pack characters will be released for similar/greater amounts of money.
If the first releases are 10 man boxes for £30/$48US (or more?) then I think the GW may not see this as the skirmish sized game that most initial AOS battle reports seem to indicate is best suited for the rules.
They're as big as terminators, though (well, bigger), so I'd say that a 5 man box for £30/$48US or more is not really out of the realm of possibility...
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: I think we will know GW's true vision of the game when the individual boxes of Stormcast Eternals with Glaives/bows etc come out. The possibility of 5 man "pocket money" (well relatively) boxes for say £15/$24 US? But I doubt it when individual clam pack characters will be released for similar/greater amounts of money.
If the first releases are 10 man boxes for £30/$48US (or more?) then I think the GW may not see this as the skirmish sized game that most initial AOS battle reports seem to indicate is best suited for the rules.
They're as big as terminators, though (well, bigger), so I'd say that a 5 man box for £30/$48US or more is not really out of the realm of possibility...
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: I think we will know GW's true vision of the game when the individual boxes of Stormcast Eternals with Glaives/bows etc come out. The possibility of 5 man "pocket money" (well relatively) boxes for say £15/$24 US? But I doubt it when individual clam pack characters will be released for similar/greater amounts of money.
If the first releases are 10 man boxes for £30/$48US (or more?) then I think the GW may not see this as the skirmish sized game that most initial AOS battle reports seem to indicate is best suited for the rules.
They're as big as terminators, though (well, bigger), so I'd say that a 5 man box for £30/$48US or more is not really out of the realm of possibility...
Terminators are $50/box US.
Yeah, and Sicarian Infiltrators/Ruststalkers are a bit bigger than Terminators(if weedier) but $46.
Trying to predict their prices based upon things like existing models is hopeless. You can generally get close if you get a pricetag from one locality, but even that isn't really working anymore.
Fair call, I think I just had my old Fantasy hat on.
What may preclude that is the recent general lack of options in GW plastic kits, and indeed the lack of options listed in AOS Warscrolls. Then again GW pricing is all over the shop. Some similar 10 man kits such as Dark Elf Corsairs are half the price of the likes of the Dark Elf Executioners (admittedly that is a dual kit with the Black Guard).
Terminator style pricing would be a daft move for new players that have bought the Age of Sigmar boxed set as price shock may well set in. Sadly that has not stopped GW before.
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: Yep, that unit has 2 identical sprues. Both have options for standard and musician. So you can have 1 unit of 20 with Musician/standard, 2 units of 10 with Musician/standard or a unit of 20 with neither.
Very useful if you are buying multiple Goretide sprues online.
Thank you for confirming. Only need one of each. Good to see I don't need to have two of each.
To me, it seems fairly clear why GWUK was interested in squashing 'Ard Boyz. If GW is to sponsor something, it should be encouraging not just the sale of kits, but the sale of paint, overpriced brushes, glues and modeling tools, etc. And neither armies of sloppily assembled grey plastic nor the behaviors encouraged by a "hardcore" event for big prizes market the hobby in the way that GW desires.
Seems like a classic case of a sales force not being aligned with the company's strategic goals. It probably could have been adjusted instead of being axed, but c'est la vie.
Which then raises the question of why set it up in the first place? As with all things GW, the more you dive into it, the more you're left scratching your head.
But yeah, an adjustment would have been infinitely better than axing it. If I were to don my armchair CEO armour, I'd think that properly supported 'official' (some people have differing opinions on official it seems) tournaments encourage sales, drive interest, cement communities, and can be used to gather valuable data pertaining to game balance and issues for FAQs/Errata.
But, I'm just a government employee, so business acumen is not my forte.
They probably didn't foresee some of the problems that would come up, such as the controversy over the size of bases the first U.S. 'Ard Boyz winner used on his Bloodcrushers. I remember for a while after on these boards, there was a huge flap whether he cheated his way to a win or not because he used smaller bases. A friend of mine that was in the national finals told me about an opponent there who was a nice guy, but just brought sacks of unpainted Ork miniatures that he dumped on the table prior to set up and unpainted rhinos with paper plates glued to the top that he used for battle wagons.
Not really the kind of stuff, as a tournament organizer, you want to see representing one of your flagship games. They probably considered laying some rules down in future 'Ard Boyz, , but in the end decided the random nature of people wouldn't make it worth it, so scrapped the tournament.
Right, which goes back to what Gorgon and I agree on; changes and evolving the format would have been a better alternative then canning it the moment someone abuses a clearly poorly thought out format.
And again, it still leaves you scratching your head, like most things GW.
I'm sure we can all agree it was a poor format, and equally a poor decision to axe it never to replace it.
Maybe, but think on all the controversy that happened at other tournaments besides this one. They probably just got tired of dealing with it. One hole gets plugged and another opens.
Whelp, there goes my plans to buy a spider rider army.
When it comes to being a massive, depressing disappointment, GW never disappoints.
Orcs and Goblins are still there...
They are until they release the new version of the Orcs then the old will be discontinued
Your minis don't self-destruct when they make new models...
but they can look danged odd once the scale creep hits...
I don't care too much what they look like, but I do sure hope the OokOoks or whatever they're calling Orcs now are *smaller* not bigger. Current GW orcs are already danged odd looking...
Relapse wrote: Maybe, but think on all the controversy that happened at other tournaments besides this one. They probably just got tired of dealing with it. One hole gets plugged and another opens.
Personally, that's not a good reason to quit doing something. It'll never be perfect, and indeed, looking at the ITC tourneys and what-not, they still get complaints and issues, but its a hell of a lot better than not running anything at all.
From GW's perspective, yeah, I'll buy that for them they just didn't want to put the effort in.
Either way, I feel that its a poor decision on GW's part all around. Good ideas, poor implementation.
WDW077-60 WHITE DWARF WEEKLY 77 (ENGLISH) White Dwarf 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 4
80-02-60 WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK (ENGLISH) Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 74
80-02-01 WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK (FRENCH) Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 74
96-10 STORMCAST ETERNALS LIBERATORS Plastic Box 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 50
96-15 STORMCAST ETERNALS LORD-CELESTANT Plastic Clam 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 33
65-10 AGE OF SIGMAR COMBAT GAUGE Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 33
65-12 STORMCAST ETERNALS DICE SHAKER Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 40
65-13 KHORNE BLOODBOUND DICE SHAKER Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 40
- WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK LIMITED ED Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 130
WDW077-60 WHITE DWARF WEEKLY 77 (ENGLISH) White Dwarf 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 4
80-02-60 WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK (ENGLISH) Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 74
80-02-01 WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK (FRENCH) Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 74
96-10 STORMCAST ETERNALS LIBERATORS Plastic Box 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 50
96-15 STORMCAST ETERNALS LORD-CELESTANT Plastic Clam 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 33
65-10 AGE OF SIGMAR COMBAT GAUGE Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 33
65-12 STORMCAST ETERNALS DICE SHAKER Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 40
65-13 KHORNE BLOODBOUND DICE SHAKER Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 40
- WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK LIMITED ED Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 130
Source? Cause that looks like a hardbound rulebook.
That reeks of "BRB"... but we expressly know not to expect one yet, right?
The sources have been split both ways on that one. Mikhaila's trade sources say this is it (no brb). Some rumor mongers say this was a boardgame (obviously wrong) and others say this was the starter set (my belief).
Relapse wrote: Maybe, but think on all the controversy that happened at other tournaments besides this one. They probably just got tired of dealing with it. One hole gets plugged and another opens.
Personally, that's not a good reason to quit doing something. It'll never be perfect, and indeed, looking at the ITC tourneys and what-not, they still get complaints and issues, but its a hell of a lot better than not running anything at all.
From GW's perspective, yeah, I'll buy that for them they just didn't want to put the effort in.
Either way, I feel that its a poor decision on GW's part all around. Good ideas, poor implementation.
I admit I was sorry to see tournaments go by the boards. I used to do pretty well in the RT tournaments at the local stores back in the day, and have a fair amount of trophies and plaques.
Xyxox wrote: I wish I had been a fly on the wall at Mantic Games HQ this morning.
I'm sure you would have been in good company, considering all the crap products they make.
That is fairly rude to both the poster and a company that objectively makes good quality (manufacturing) miniatures, despite opinions of aesthetic
Not to send this thread further off topic but Mantic and "good quality" do not go hand in hand..... yet! They are getting there with their new plastics but currently most of their stuff is gak...
I ordered my set of AoS and plan to proxy the Sigmarines as Basileans in KOW.
WDW077-60 WHITE DWARF WEEKLY 77 (ENGLISH) White Dwarf 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 4
80-02-60 WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK (ENGLISH) Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 74
80-02-01 WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK (FRENCH) Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 74
96-10 STORMCAST ETERNALS LIBERATORS Plastic Box 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 50
96-15 STORMCAST ETERNALS LORD-CELESTANT Plastic Clam 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 33
65-10 AGE OF SIGMAR COMBAT GAUGE Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 33
65-12 STORMCAST ETERNALS DICE SHAKER Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 40
65-13 KHORNE BLOODBOUND DICE SHAKER Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 40
- WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK LIMITED ED Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 130
Source? Cause that looks like a hardbound rulebook.
Isn't there a how to paint book and a novel too, both hardback? Maybe that's what the book is? I highly doubt there will be a big rulebook, since they said there won't be, and GW doesn't lie to people ever.
Necros wrote: Isn't there a how to paint book and a novel too, both hardback? Maybe that's what the book is? I highly doubt there will be a big rulebook, since they said there won't be, and GW doesn't lie to people ever.
Nope, only supplements, which is fine by me. The first supplement has already been confirmed (mostly) and will include more indepth rules and a point system.
I admit I was sorry to see tournaments go by the boards. I used to do pretty well in the RT tournaments at the local stores back in the day, and have a fair amount of trophies and plaques.
I'm sure you're not alone in that regard. The last time I was around an active gaming scene I went to a few smaller tournaments, including an 'Ard Boyz (I think) and some local doubles. But that must be...almost five years ago now. How the time does fly...
Necros wrote: Isn't there a how to paint book and a novel too, both hardback? Maybe that's what the book is? I highly doubt there will be a big rulebook, since they said there won't be, and GW doesn't lie to people ever.
The Painting Guide is softback and $30.
Novel is hardback and $15
Both are currently up for preorder.
It COULD be that this is a release of this from the starter box:
A ninety-six page Warhammer Age of Sigmar book containing:
All new background information on the realms and factions in the Age of Sigmar;
Guides to all the included miniatures - who they are, their place in their army and their abilities, plus pages of incredible showcases;
A thrilling play-through narrative, introducing the deep, compelling story behind Warhammer Age of Sigmar;
All the rules and Warscrolls for every miniature included in the box.
Necros wrote: Isn't there a how to paint book and a novel too, both hardback? Maybe that's what the book is? I highly doubt there will be a big rulebook, since they said there won't be, and GW doesn't lie to people ever.
Those drop on the 11th and were available for pre-order on the 4th. The above indicates the books will be available for pre-order on the 11th and drop on the 18th.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Avrik_Shasla wrote: Nope, only supplements, which is fine by me. The first supplement has already been confirmed (mostly) and will include more indepth rules and a point system.
Everything indicates there will be no points system. PR guy at Forge World Open Day confirmed this. Said there will be a balancing mechanism, though.
Given everything we know, this book is most likely scenarios with pre-built army lists as the balancing mechanism.
I admit I was sorry to see tournaments go by the boards. I used to do pretty well in the RT tournaments at the local stores back in the day, and have a fair amount of trophies and plaques.
I'm sure you're not alone in that regard. The last time I was around an active gaming scene I went to a few smaller tournaments, including an 'Ard Boyz (I think) and some local doubles. But that must be...almost five years ago now. How the time does fly...
I got into my first tournament in years through an escalation league here. It was pretty fun with amazing prize support and I came away with a war walker and wraith knight as my winnings. I might start hitting the circuit again. Even though I'm rustler than hell, it is a lot of fun.
If there are any local AoS tournaments, I'm in.
WDW077-60 WHITE DWARF WEEKLY 77 (ENGLISH) White Dwarf 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 4
80-02-60 WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK (ENGLISH) Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 74
80-02-01 WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK (FRENCH) Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 74
96-10 STORMCAST ETERNALS LIBERATORS Plastic Box 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 50
96-15 STORMCAST ETERNALS LORD-CELESTANT Plastic Clam 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 33
65-10 AGE OF SIGMAR COMBAT GAUGE Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 33
65-12 STORMCAST ETERNALS DICE SHAKER Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 40
65-13 KHORNE BLOODBOUND DICE SHAKER Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 40
- WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK LIMITED ED Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 130
Source? Cause that looks like a hardbound rulebook.
Necros wrote: Isn't there a how to paint book and a novel too, both hardback? Maybe that's what the book is? I highly doubt there will be a big rulebook, since they said there won't be, and GW doesn't lie to people ever.
Those drop on the 11th and were available for pre-order on the 4th. The above indicates the books will be available for pre-order on the 11th and drop on the 18th.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Avrik_Shasla wrote: Nope, only supplements, which is fine by me. The first supplement has already been confirmed (mostly) and will include more indepth rules and a point system.
Everything indicates there will be no points system. PR guy at Forge World Open Day confirmed this. Said there will be a balancing mechanism, though.
Given everything we know, this book is most likely scenarios with pre-built army lists as the balancing mechanism.
It wouldn't be the first time that GW lied up until a release date.
Can you still customise your characters with extra gear like magic items and mounts, or do you just get what you're given on the Unit Card (war scroll?)? Is there still an Armoury and Relic List? (To borrow terms from 40k). I've never played Warhammer Fantasy but I always got the impression from White Dwarf that customizing characters was a big and fun part of list building.
WDW077-60 WHITE DWARF WEEKLY 77 (ENGLISH) White Dwarf 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 4
80-02-60 WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK (ENGLISH) Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 74
80-02-01 WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK (FRENCH) Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 74
96-10 STORMCAST ETERNALS LIBERATORS Plastic Box 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 50
96-15 STORMCAST ETERNALS LORD-CELESTANT Plastic Clam 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 33
65-10 AGE OF SIGMAR COMBAT GAUGE Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 33
65-12 STORMCAST ETERNALS DICE SHAKER Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 40
65-13 KHORNE BLOODBOUND DICE SHAKER Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 40
- WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK LIMITED ED Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 130
Source? Cause that looks like a hardbound rulebook.
Necros wrote: Isn't there a how to paint book and a novel too, both hardback? Maybe that's what the book is? I highly doubt there will be a big rulebook, since they said there won't be, and GW doesn't lie to people ever.
Those drop on the 11th and were available for pre-order on the 4th. The above indicates the books will be available for pre-order on the 11th and drop on the 18th.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Avrik_Shasla wrote: Nope, only supplements, which is fine by me. The first supplement has already been confirmed (mostly) and will include more indepth rules and a point system.
Everything indicates there will be no points system. PR guy at Forge World Open Day confirmed this. Said there will be a balancing mechanism, though.
Given everything we know, this book is most likely scenarios with pre-built army lists as the balancing mechanism.
It wouldn't be the first time that GW lied up until a release date.
True enough, but if there was going to be a BRB with a points system and they are getting so much flak about the lack of a points system, why wreck things by not admitting, "guys, point system is coming very soon."?
Surely even GW can see that lying about something like that when it's clear that retailers were at best befuddled by the lack of a balancing system, is gonna do more harm than good. Just saying 'there's a book coming soon, with a way to balance armies' would've assuaged a lot of people's main qualm with the game...
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Can you still customise your characters with extra gear like magic items and mounts, or do you just get what you're given on the Unit Card (war scroll?)? Is there still an Armoury and Relic List? (To borrow terms from 40k). I've never played Warhammer Fantasy but I always got the impression from White Dwarf that customizing characters was a big and fun part of list building.
ImAGeek wrote: Surely even GW can see that lying about something like that when it's clear that retailers were at best befuddled by the lack of a balancing system, is gonna do more harm than good. Just saying 'there's a book coming soon, with a way to balance armies' would've assuaged a lot of people's main qualm with the game...
I can't imagine it happening. That's the sort of thing that gets a board of directors into a fast emergency meeting to sack a CEO for complete ineptitude.You simply do not piss off customers like that if you have the answer inbound a week after lauch. Heck, making sure that information was out there could do nothing but HELP the launch if that was your customer's main gripe.
Painted my free Eternal. I tried to grimdarkify him a bit.
Spoiler:
Still not sure about the models. One was fun to paint, but the range look samey. Space marines have all sorts of different power armour components that make assembling them fun, but Eternals look like an army of clones.
Not that it really matters as I'm not getting them unless some sort of a balancing mechanic materialises.
ImAGeek wrote: Surely even GW can see that lying about something like that when it's clear that retailers were at best befuddled by the lack of a balancing system, is gonna do more harm than good. Just saying 'there's a book coming soon, with a way to balance armies' would've assuaged a lot of people's main qualm with the game...
I can't imagine it happening. That's the sort of thing that gets a board of directors into a fast emergency meeting to sack a CEO for complete ineptitude.You simply do not piss off customers like that if you have the answer inbound a week after lauch. Heck, making sure that information was out there could do nothing but HELP the launch if that was your customer's main gripe.
What was the last big one? There's no Space Hulk and it was a week away. Not saying that's what's going on, but it certainly has happened before.
ImAGeek wrote: Surely even GW can see that lying about something like that when it's clear that retailers were at best befuddled by the lack of a balancing system, is gonna do more harm than good. Just saying 'there's a book coming soon, with a way to balance armies' would've assuaged a lot of people's main qualm with the game...
I can't imagine it happening. That's the sort of thing that gets a board of directors into a fast emergency meeting to sack a CEO for complete ineptitude.You simply do not piss off customers like that if you have the answer inbound a week after lauch. Heck, making sure that information was out there could do nothing but HELP the launch if that was your customer's main gripe.
What was the last big one? There's no Space Hulk and it was a week away. Not saying that's what's going on, but it certainly has happened before.
Equating a one off product with a main product line is really not a good analogy.
ImAGeek wrote: Surely even GW can see that lying about something like that when it's clear that retailers were at best befuddled by the lack of a balancing system, is gonna do more harm than good. Just saying 'there's a book coming soon, with a way to balance armies' would've assuaged a lot of people's main qualm with the game...
I can't imagine it happening. That's the sort of thing that gets a board of directors into a fast emergency meeting to sack a CEO for complete ineptitude.You simply do not piss off customers like that if you have the answer inbound a week after lauch. Heck, making sure that information was out there could do nothing but HELP the launch if that was your customer's main gripe.
What was the last big one? There's no Space Hulk and it was a week away. Not saying that's what's going on, but it certainly has happened before.
Equating a one off product with a main product line is really not a good analogy.
I'm equating behaviour. They are known to lie about upcoming products.
The book is the same price as apocalypse for 40k, so is most likely the rumoured campaign book. The liberators are the same price as the regular terminators so probably 5 to a box. I wonder if these are actually the archers we have seen. Is the clam pack the lantern holding guy we have seen. What about the terrain? When is that coming?
ImAGeek wrote: Surely even GW can see that lying about something like that when it's clear that retailers were at best befuddled by the lack of a balancing system, is gonna do more harm than good. Just saying 'there's a book coming soon, with a way to balance armies' would've assuaged a lot of people's main qualm with the game...
I can't imagine it happening. That's the sort of thing that gets a board of directors into a fast emergency meeting to sack a CEO for complete ineptitude.You simply do not piss off customers like that if you have the answer inbound a week after lauch. Heck, making sure that information was out there could do nothing but HELP the launch if that was your customer's main gripe.
What was the last big one? There's no Space Hulk and it was a week away. Not saying that's what's going on, but it certainly has happened before.
Equating a one off product with a main product line is really not a good analogy.
I'm equating behaviour. They are known to lie about upcoming products.
When was the last time they lied about core rules surrounding a major product line?
ImAGeek wrote: Surely even GW can see that lying about something like that when it's clear that retailers were at best befuddled by the lack of a balancing system, is gonna do more harm than good. Just saying 'there's a book coming soon, with a way to balance armies' would've assuaged a lot of people's main qualm with the game...
I can't imagine it happening. That's the sort of thing that gets a board of directors into a fast emergency meeting to sack a CEO for complete ineptitude.You simply do not piss off customers like that if you have the answer inbound a week after lauch. Heck, making sure that information was out there could do nothing but HELP the launch if that was your customer's main gripe.
Honestly, I believe a lot of people forget that this is a brand new game that they are probably not finished with. The rules that have been given to us thus far are just the starter rules, as has been confirmed by GW themselves. I think they are trying to get stuff out free, and early for customers to get use to, and then a point system will be coming shortly there afterwards. I give it a couple weeks.
ImAGeek wrote: Surely even GW can see that lying about something like that when it's clear that retailers were at best befuddled by the lack of a balancing system, is gonna do more harm than good. Just saying 'there's a book coming soon, with a way to balance armies' would've assuaged a lot of people's main qualm with the game...
I can't imagine it happening. That's the sort of thing that gets a board of directors into a fast emergency meeting to sack a CEO for complete ineptitude.You simply do not piss off customers like that if you have the answer inbound a week after lauch. Heck, making sure that information was out there could do nothing but HELP the launch if that was your customer's main gripe.
Honestly, I believe a lot of people forget that this is a brand new game that they are probably not finished with. The rules that have been given to us thus far are just the starter rules, as has been confirmed by GW themselves. I think they are trying to get stuff out free, and early for customers to get use to, and then a point system will be coming shortly there afterwards. I give it a couple weeks.
So then they send ut a PR guy to Forge World Open Day to lie saying there will never be a points system but there will be another balancing mechanism in the future?
So then they send ut a PR guy to Forge World Open Day to lie saying there will never be a points system but there will be another balancing mechanism in the future?
How daft is that?
Allegedly, have we seen confirmation from another source of that rumor?
So then they send ut a PR guy to Forge World Open Day to lie saying there will never be a points system but there will be another balancing mechanism in the future?
How daft is that?
Allegedly, have we seen confirmation from another source of that rumor?
Rumors are just that, they are rumors until they are proven correct. I don't see any confirmation anywhere from the forgeworld PR guy, but the going rumor that is believed by many retailers is that it's on its way.
I think Dakka should just post that archer photo as a big ad at the top of the page like they did for Maelstrom's edge, since it's on every page anyway
So then they send ut a PR guy to Forge World Open Day to lie saying there will never be a points system but there will be another balancing mechanism in the future?
How daft is that?
Allegedly, have we seen confirmation from another source of that rumor?
Rumors are just that, they are rumors until they are proven correct. I don't see any confirmation anywhere from the forgeworld PR guy, but the going rumor that is believed by many retailers is that it's on its way.
So then they send ut a PR guy to Forge World Open Day to lie saying there will never be a points system but there will be another balancing mechanism in the future?
How daft is that?
Allegedly, have we seen confirmation from another source of that rumor?
Rumors are just that, they are rumors until they are proven correct. I don't see any confirmation anywhere from the forgeworld PR guy, but the going rumor that is believed by many retailers is that it's on its way.
Necros wrote: I think Dakka should just post that archer photo as a big ad at the top of the page like they did for Maelstrom's edge, since it's on every page anyway
Well, the PR guy at FW allegedly said there would be a competition/tournament system that did NOT include points, right?
How that works, I'll be curious. Obviously it will have to be based on *something*
He also said there would be so many scenarios that you never had to play the same one twice -- like hundreds -- so that is cool.
By the way, we played AoS last night, about 6 hours worth, using random Fantasy miniatures (since none of us have an army). About 40 models per side, 6x4 table. It was actually pretty fun (more than I thought, really). We spent way too much time looking up special rules, and forgot a lot of them
The 2 ladies (very casual gaming girlfriends that mostly just play MtG casually) that joined us really enjoyed it a lot -- they said they wouldn't mind to play it again, which they wouldn't do with 40kKT or Xwing, so that's a plus. Like others, we ended up measuring from bases and didn't count rotation of model as movement. We started it the other way, but it was just too awkward. Other than that, we played it RAW. The games were close, and there was no mosh pit problem.
Still not really my thing, and it's not going to grow on me, but the experience was enjoyable, and it's fast-paced and quick.
Kanluwen wrote: See if you can figure out how many Liberators are in a box, I'm genuinely curious on that.
I'm betting 5 and they will be very monopose.
That's fine.
People said that about the Cairn Wraith, but a few slices here and there in regards to the arms and I made them look different enough that each one was recognizable.
Kanluwen wrote: See if you can figure out how many Liberators are in a box, I'm genuinely curious on that.
I'm betting 5 and they will be very monopose.
That's fine.
People said that about the Cairn Wraith, but a few slices here and there in regards to the arms and I made them look different enough that each one was recognizable.
RoninXiC wrote: He definately does not know about Warmachine .. yes, there is an FAQ and Errata, but tournamentplay is EXACTLY like the "regular" play.
The way it should be.
Apart from tweaking army selection (dual lists with no repeat characters, etc) and victory conditions, you mean. Which is pretty much what needs tweaking in AoS for tourney play.
The best I could do in 48 hours of playtesting and reading new rules.
WDW077-60 WHITE DWARF WEEKLY 77 (ENGLISH) White Dwarf 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 4
80-02-60 WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK (ENGLISH) Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 74
80-02-01 WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK (FRENCH) Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 74
96-10 STORMCAST ETERNALS LIBERATORS Plastic Box 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 50
96-15 STORMCAST ETERNALS LORD-CELESTANT Plastic Clam 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 33
65-10 AGE OF SIGMAR COMBAT GAUGE Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 33
65-12 STORMCAST ETERNALS DICE SHAKER Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 40
65-13 KHORNE BLOODBOUND DICE SHAKER Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 40
- WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK LIMITED ED Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 130
Source? Cause that looks like a hardbound rulebook.
I believe this is just an upgraded version of the fluff and pictures book that comes in the boxed set. Nice book, and has some good artwork, but the only rules are the AoS warscrolls for units in the box.
ImAGeek wrote: Surely even GW can see that lying about something like that when it's clear that retailers were at best befuddled by the lack of a balancing system, is gonna do more harm than good. Just saying 'there's a book coming soon, with a way to balance armies' would've assuaged a lot of people's main qualm with the game...
I can't imagine it happening. That's the sort of thing that gets a board of directors into a fast emergency meeting to sack a CEO for complete ineptitude.You simply do not piss off customers like that if you have the answer inbound a week after lauch. Heck, making sure that information was out there could do nothing but HELP the launch if that was your customer's main gripe.
Ding! Ding! Ding!
We have a Winnah!
Having to fight against a a flaming tower of raging fury, both mine and my customers, is not making it easy to sell games.
Not sure if this has been posted yet... I think this shows how 'All-in' GW is on this AoS game, to dethrone the Space Marine statue and Aquila sign and replace them with these. Sink or swim now I think...on the positive side, perhaps this is a good sign and they are committed to making the game work by releasing some sort of balancing mechanic, as has been rumored earlier in this thread.
One thing that im not understanding, if this game was supposed to be dumbed down with less rules and simpler rules, why do so many units have so many weapon layouts.
Example for me are the Warriors of Chaos Skullreapers, im sure other armies have the exact same things going as well.
5 different weapons all basically the same stat, but the ones with the 1+ higher to Hit get the option to cause Mortal wounds.
How are people keeping track of which model is equipped with what?
It was a few pages back. I really can't believe how ugly that thing looks.
A note: the current CEO is basically a puppet of Kirby ( He is the current major share holder and effectively his boss) Until he is bought out or the other shareholders overrule him and basically tell him to shut it or they will buy him out/ block everything he does until he sells nothing will change.
He was the CEO and the majority share holder for a bit which is technically against the rules in the UK, probably until he found someone to be his mouthpiece effectively.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eldarain wrote: The new expense to excuse the poor financial report?
WDW077-60 WHITE DWARF WEEKLY 77 (ENGLISH) White Dwarf 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 4
80-02-60 WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK (ENGLISH) Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 74
80-02-01 WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK (FRENCH) Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 74
96-10 STORMCAST ETERNALS LIBERATORS Plastic Box 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 50
96-15 STORMCAST ETERNALS LORD-CELESTANT Plastic Clam 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 33
65-10 AGE OF SIGMAR COMBAT GAUGE Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 33
65-12 STORMCAST ETERNALS DICE SHAKER Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 40
65-13 KHORNE BLOODBOUND DICE SHAKER Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 40
- WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK LIMITED ED Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 130
prices are in CAD?
WDW077-60 WHITE DWARF WEEKLY 77 (ENGLISH) White Dwarf 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 4 80-02-60 WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK (ENGLISH) Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 74 80-02-01 WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK (FRENCH) Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 74 96-10 STORMCAST ETERNALS LIBERATORS Plastic Box 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 50 96-15 STORMCAST ETERNALS LORD-CELESTANT Plastic Clam 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 33 65-10 AGE OF SIGMAR COMBAT GAUGE Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 33 65-12 STORMCAST ETERNALS DICE SHAKER Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 40 65-13 KHORNE BLOODBOUND DICE SHAKER Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 40 - WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK LIMITED ED Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 130
Fango wrote: Not sure if this has been posted yet... I think this shows how 'All-in' GW is on this AoS game, to dethrone the Space Marine statue and Aquila sign and replace them with these. Sink or swim now I think...on the positive side, perhaps this is a good sign and they are committed to making the game work by releasing some sort of balancing mechanic, as has been rumored earlier in this thread.
Spoiler:
Yeah the Imperial style crest (like the old Imperium one) seems to also highlight GW's attempts to rebrand WHFB via AoS as a very similar product to 40K. Wonder in what ways the differences between 40K and AoS will be narrowed over the next few years; as some posters have mentioned, there is a question mark about 40K now going down the AoS rule direction. Hard not to see GW trying to create a synergy between 40K and AoS in the near future in a similar manner to the one that exists between Warmachine and Hordes...
Chopxsticks wrote: One thing that im not understanding, if this game was supposed to be dumbed down with less rules and simpler rules, why do so many units have so many weapon layouts.
Example for me are the Warriors of Chaos Skullreapers, im sure other armies have the exact same things going as well.
5 different weapons all basically the same stat, but the ones with the 1+ higher to Hit get the option to cause Mortal wounds.
How are people keeping track of which model is equipped with what?
Fango wrote: Not sure if this has been posted yet... I think this shows how 'All-in' GW is on this AoS game, to dethrone the Space Marine statue and Aquila sign and replace them with these. Sink or swim now I think...on the positive side, perhaps this is a good sign and they are committed to making the game work by releasing some sort of balancing mechanic, as has been rumored earlier in this thread.
Las wrote: Does anyone have their hands on the fluff book and would they be able to shed some light on this apparent cluster feth of a setting?
It's a very simplified Planescape based off of the 8 winds of magic imagined as 'realms' along with the realm of Chaos as Realm 9, the baddies realm.
Was in my local GW briefly today and picked up a copy of the book that accompanies the boxset. It's not got that much inside it in terms of text content. The artwork is quite nice but if its the same book you are talking about I am fairly disappointed as there doesn't seem to be much in the way of deep background fluff.
Las wrote: Does anyone have their hands on the fluff book and would they be able to shed some light on this apparent cluster feth of a setting?
It's a very simplified Planescape based off of the 8 winds of magic imagined as 'realms' along with the realm of Chaos as Realm 9, the baddies realm.
Is that all we know? Do we know anything about the other factions, how/where they live and are organized? Or are the realms just different battlefields for the super good guys to fight the super bad guys for reasons?
As far as I know they shut Phil Kelly in one box to write the background and JJ in another box to write the rules, for about 6 months, and this is the result. What we have seen seems a bit light for that so I'm guessing there will be more, but that's just me guessing.
Xyxox wrote: I wish I had been a fly on the wall at Mantic Games HQ this morning.
I'm sure you would have been in good company, considering all the crap products they make.
That's rather uncalled for no matter what he/she said in the past.
Mantic need to fix the squareish problems with the models they make. It's like GW stuff from the 80s and unfortunately it won't cut it.
I'm not sure how open they are to talking to customers though.
Why is that 'uncalled for'?
A handful of people are in this thread bashing GW left and right with free reign, but one person posts a negative comment about Mantic and, "That's rather uncalled for!"? Before you say, 'Well, it's a GW thread', it's actually a N&R thread for AoS, or so I was led to believe by the title/location.
This thread pretty much stopped being N&R awhile ago. It's pretty much the same dozen haters or so posting their same 'tough-guy' internet drivel over and over again. A mod indicated that a new N&R thread should be incoming soon. I sift through the thread on the off chance I'll find some actual N&R.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: As far as I know they shut Phil Kelly in one box to write the background and JJ in another box to write the rules, for about 6 months, and this is the result. What we have seen seems a bit light for that so I'm guessing there will be more, but that's just me guessing.
Really hope you are right on this because I would have expected a decent bit of content from the book in the box!
catharsix wrote: Who else is considering trying to take the big gribbly monster thingy and at least trying to convert it into something cool? For "Fantasy" AoS, or 40K? I'm on the fence, frankly. I feel kinda like I did about the Slaughterbrute. But that was way too expensive to buy for conversion purposes. But since I'm loving the Khorne infantry models, I'm gonna get at least one of these in the mix. Maybe a nasty counts-as greater daemon? A chunky Daemon Prince?
If I do end up getting the box to use the models in INQ28 & Mordheim, I dunno...if you tone it down a bit(fill in the melty-skullskin bits, leave off some of the weird bonetail things sprouting out of his shoulders and fill in their sockets, use a decent actual head) it might make a good base for a Chaos Troll? Otherwise it's probably going to end up as DP or Spawn bait.
That's what I was thinking. I can imagine that, for 40k purposes, there's a bunch of parts from the Hellbrute kit that would fit in with this model well. But getting rid of those weird tentacles and skull zits would be necessary.
I ran through a solo play of the rules just to try them out. Obviously that isn't the same as playing against an opponent, but if you're interested in how it went, I have a battle report up on my blog:
Las wrote: Does anyone have their hands on the fluff book and would they be able to shed some light on this apparent cluster feth of a setting?
It's a very simplified Planescape based off of the 8 winds of magic imagined as 'realms' along with the realm of Chaos as Realm 9, the baddies realm.
Is that all we know? Do we know anything about the other factions, how/where they live and are organized? Or are the realms just different battlefields for the super good guys to fight the super bad guys for reasons?
The factions are still the old Endtimes ones basically but with the added "Grand Alliances":
It might be a screwup as they're organizing (since Undead are "Skeletons, Mummies, Vampires"), but under Destruction its got Troggoth or something as their own.
I hope with the smaller potential games they look into more minor factions in Warhammer. There were some great ones possible (the fact I never got Wolfpriests still upsets me..)
Las wrote: Does anyone have their hands on the fluff book and would they be able to shed some light on this apparent cluster feth of a setting?
It's a very simplified Planescape based off of the 8 winds of magic imagined as 'realms' along with the realm of Chaos as Realm 9, the baddies realm.
Is that all we know? Do we know anything about the other factions, how/where they live and are organized? Or are the realms just different battlefields for the super good guys to fight the super bad guys for reasons?
The factions are still the old Endtimes ones basically but with the added "Grand Alliances":
Not to be a dick, but do you have sources for this? I just find it hard to believe there is still an empire if the old world was destroyed thousands of years ago in the setting.
Las wrote: Does anyone have their hands on the fluff book and would they be able to shed some light on this apparent cluster feth of a setting?
It's a very simplified Planescape based off of the 8 winds of magic imagined as 'realms' along with the realm of Chaos as Realm 9, the baddies realm.
Is that all we know? Do we know anything about the other factions, how/where they live and are organized? Or are the realms just different battlefields for the super good guys to fight the super bad guys for reasons?
The factions are still the old Endtimes ones basically but with the added "Grand Alliances":
Not to be a dick, but do you have sources for this? I just find it hard to believe there is still an empire if the old world was destroyed thousands of years ago in the setting.
Main site has the factions listed if you filter under each "Grand Alliance". It could be a placeholder until they properly come up with the new Empire-equivalent though. All Warscrolls for those factions also have that Keyword on their units (IE: Order on all Empire ones.)
Also the pictures we've seen has some Empire units fighting next to Sigmarites, and they're painted similarly, so I assume fractions of the Empire still exist out there in the realms or some sort of new Empire based on the old ones does.
Agent_Tremolo wrote: The Empire is now called the Free People or something AFAIK.
You know what I find kinda cool about that? There were Bret units with Free People keyword too and I didn't think twice about it. So they probably merged Brets/Empire into a new faction they're calling under that banner, similar to how all the Elf subfactions are now just Elves.
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I'd give that a look. Though I'm hoping it's not as rubbish as the Force Requisition feature in the new 40K codexes. My Necron codex just wouldn't work at all in that regard. I built a list but couldn't remove anything from it. Though now Apple have released the iOS 8.4 patch(which also updated iBooks), it appears to have reset its brain and works properly for now.
That reeks of "BRB"... but we expressly know not to expect one yet, right?
The sources have been split both ways on that one. Mikhaila's trade sources say this is it (no brb). Some rumor mongers say this was a boardgame (obviously wrong) and others say this was the starter set (my belief).
It's not the BRB, it's a... campaignish thing. 32 warscrolls, a few scenarios, pretty pictures.
I actually think the thing I'll like most about this system is the homebrew potential. I can definitely see myself writing up some scnearios or even custom warscrolls down the line for people to use.
That reeks of "BRB"... but we expressly know not to expect one yet, right?
The sources have been split both ways on that one. Mikhaila's trade sources say this is it (no brb). Some rumor mongers say this was a boardgame (obviously wrong) and others say this was the starter set (my belief).
It's not the BRB, it's a... campaignish thing. 32 warscrolls, a few scenarios, pretty pictures.
Razor Sharp Beaks and Claws Range: 1"; Attacks: 2; To Hit: 4+; To Wound: 4+; Rend: 1; Damage: 1
Description: A unit of Baby Demigryph Pack may have any number of models. They are armed with Razor Sharp Beaks and Claws.
Baby Demigryph Alpha: The leader of this unit is a Baby Demigryph Alpha. It makes 3 attacks instead of 2.
Abilities:
Disarmingly Cute: Each time a model in this unit hits, if you flap your arms like wings and make baby chick noises while spinning in circles with your pants around your ankles, you may cause D6 Mortal Wounds instead of making the normal To Wound roll. If you weren't wearing underpants when you drop your pants and manage to avoid arrest for Indecent Exposure, you may cause 6D6 Mortal Wounds instead.
Some people are whining about really silly things tbh. The newer pictures haven't been circulating that long and I'm just now seeing them today (social life.. I know). The images in the store honestly do have me feeling better about the Sigmarines.
I primarily play with my son.. so I really don't feel that bad about this release. If I was still more of a tournament player, yeah.. this is definitely not something I could see for that... but my son has a hard time against me and maybe a ruleset where he can just pile on whatever he wants is what we need for him to be able to enjoy the game.. whatever.. I'm in this to collect models, push those models around, and have a bit of fun. I don't see anything so far to make me feel like I would be unable to have fun playing this ruleset. What I do see is that playing this from a WAAC standpoint would be nerve-wracking.. and I am laughing quietly about that to myself.
Razor Sharp Beaks and Claws Range: 1"; Attacks: 2; To Hit: 4+; To Wound: 4+; Rend: 1; Damage: 1
Description: A unit of Baby Demigryph Pack may have any number of models. They are armed with Razor Sharp Beaks and Claws.
Baby Demigryph Alpha: The leader of this unit is a Baby Demigryph Alpha. It makes 3 attacks instead of 2.
Abilities:
Disarmingly Cute: Each time a model in this unit hits, if you flap your arms like wings and make baby chick noises while spinning in circles with your pants around your ankles, you may cause D6 Mortal Wounds instead of making the normal To Wound roll. If you weren't wearing underpants when you drop your pants and manage to avoid arrest for Indecent Exposure, you may cause 6D6 Mortal Wounds instead.
I dunno. I think the should be Save: 5+ and Brave: 6 and just one attack each. Oh, and add, "if your opponent is able to take a picture of you doing this and post it to any social media outlet, you win the game....but they win the war."
MLaw wrote: Some people are whining about really silly things tbh. The newer pictures haven't been circulating that long and I'm just now seeing them today (social life.. I know). The images in the store honestly do have me feeling better about the Sigmarines.
I primarily play with my son.. so I really don't feel that bad about this release. If I was still more of a tournament player, yeah.. this is definitely not something I could see for that... but my son has a hard time against me and maybe a ruleset where he can just pile on whatever he wants is what we need for him to be able to enjoy the game.. whatever.. I'm in this to collect models, push those models around, and have a bit of fun. I don't see anything so far to make me feel like I would be unable to have fun playing this ruleset. What I do see is that playing this from a WAAC standpoint would be nerve-wracking.. and I am laughing quietly about that to myself.
Sure except for the fact that it's a "waac" paradise. If that mythicals baby seals clubbing waac took interest in this, he/ she could make your favourite models pushing game into an exercise in picking up minis with speed never seen on whfb tables.
MLaw wrote: Some people are whining about really silly things tbh. The newer pictures haven't been circulating that long and I'm just now seeing them today (social life.. I know). The images in the store honestly do have me feeling better about the Sigmarines.
I primarily play with my son.. so I really don't feel that bad about this release. If I was still more of a tournament player, yeah.. this is definitely not something I could see for that... but my son has a hard time against me and maybe a ruleset where he can just pile on whatever he wants is what we need for him to be able to enjoy the game.. whatever.. I'm in this to collect models, push those models around, and have a bit of fun. I don't see anything so far to make me feel like I would be unable to have fun playing this ruleset. What I do see is that playing this from a WAAC standpoint would be nerve-wracking.. and I am laughing quietly about that to myself.
Sure except for the fact that it's a "waac" paradise. If that mythicals baby seals clubbing waac took interest in this, he/ she could make your favourite models pushing game into an exercise in picking up minis with speed never seen on whfb tables.
Yeah, when I was in the tournament scene I gamed with Ironfist League guys on the east coast.. all of them are WAAC and all of them are very proud of that. Thanks for implying that I'm full of crap though! Very classy As to your scenario.. I don't play against people like that but.. in that environment, I believe each side would be doing the exact same thing.. so it would be a matter of setting up your stuff then packing it back up.. Or.. as I like to call it, a drawn out game of rock paper scissors.
hmmm interesting! question is maybe how much would it cost, and to take a jab , I wonder how many "buy" here buttons will be on each model when you add it to your "list".
This app has a lot of potential , yet another thing to look forward to!
On a side note I guess I learned something new today with abbreviation WAAC, did not think there was a term for it but those are the guys that I usually randomly meet when I try and find a pickup game, and believe me after that I usually drop the hobby for a few months until I regain my interest
Eldarain wrote: The army builder is very intriguing for a game you don't currently write lists for.
Is it just me or does this seem a bit rushed? I mean, send out an email saying to install the warhammer app so you can find out when another app is released? Why not just send out an email saying to the same distribution saying its released?
For a launch of this size it seems a little odd.
Conspiracy theories:
1. rushed the announcement to quell the nerd-rage for no points on the warscrolls
2. app wasn't ready when it was supposed to be, but want to let people know something is coming
3. nothing to see here, just making sure everybody has the warhammer app
4. ??
Razor Sharp Beaks and Claws Range: 1"; Attacks: 2; To Hit: 4+; To Wound: 4+; Rend: 1; Damage: 1
Description: A unit of Baby Demigryph Pack may have any number of models. They are armed with Razor Sharp Beaks and Claws.
Baby Demigryph Alpha: The leader of this unit is a Baby Demigryph Alpha. It makes 3 attacks instead of 2.
Abilities:
Disarmingly Cute: Each time a model in this unit hits, if you flap your arms like wings and make baby chick noises while spinning in circles with your pants around your ankles, you may cause D6 Mortal Wounds instead of making the normal To Wound roll. If you weren't wearing underpants when you drop your pants and manage to avoid arrest for Indecent Exposure, you may cause 6D6 Mortal Wounds instead.
MLaw wrote: Some people are whining about really silly things tbh. The newer pictures haven't been circulating that long and I'm just now seeing them today (social life.. I know). The images in the store honestly do have me feeling better about the Sigmarines.
I primarily play with my son.. so I really don't feel that bad about this release. If I was still more of a tournament player, yeah.. this is definitely not something I could see for that... but my son has a hard time against me and maybe a ruleset where he can just pile on whatever he wants is what we need for him to be able to enjoy the game.. whatever.. I'm in this to collect models, push those models around, and have a bit of fun. I don't see anything so far to make me feel like I would be unable to have fun playing this ruleset. What I do see is that playing this from a WAAC standpoint would be nerve-wracking.. and I am laughing quietly about that to myself.
Sure except for the fact that it's a "waac" paradise. If that mythicals baby seals clubbing waac took interest in this, he/ she could make your favourite models pushing game into an exercise in picking up minis with speed never seen on whfb tables.
Yeah, when I was in the tournament scene I gamed with Ironfist League guys on the east coast.. all of them are WAAC and all of them are very proud of that. Thanks for implying that I'm full of crap though! Very classy As to your scenario.. I don't play against people like that but.. in that environment, I believe each side would be doing the exact same thing.. so it would be a matter of setting up your stuff then packing it back up.. Or.. as I like to call it, a drawn out game of rock paper scissors.
Waac is a meaningless term no matter who uses it, nothing to do with you being full of crap. If someone adopted it to describe himself for some reason, it still doesnt give it meaning on a large scale. Some people write efficient lists and value the list building part more than others.
Though the most waac are the guys who cry waac because if they didnt want to waac, they wouldnt cry waac. See I can do it too.
I was just pointing out that this system is infinitely more break-prone that old whfb and the only thing that makes it "narrative" is that players who value more serious competitions will migrate to other systems or play oldhammer.
If AoS is more prone to being broken than 8th, then surely WAAC players should like it more? Or are we saying WAAC players prefer more of a challenge (from the system, that is; not necessarily their human opponents)?
WDW077-60 WHITE DWARF WEEKLY 77 (ENGLISH) White Dwarf 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 4
80-02-60 WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK (ENGLISH) Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 74
80-02-01 WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK (FRENCH) Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 74
96-10 STORMCAST ETERNALS LIBERATORS Plastic Box 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 50
96-15 STORMCAST ETERNALS LORD-CELESTANT Plastic Clam 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 33
65-10 AGE OF SIGMAR COMBAT GAUGE Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 33
65-12 STORMCAST ETERNALS DICE SHAKER Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 40
65-13 KHORNE BLOODBOUND DICE SHAKER Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 40
- WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK LIMITED ED Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 130
prices are in CAD?
USD. Also have CAD prices
WDW077-60 WHITE DWARF WEEKLY 77 (ENGLISH) White Dwarf 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 5
80-02-60 WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK (ENGLISH) Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 90
80-02-01 WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK (FRENCH) Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 90
96-10 STORMCAST ETERNALS LIBERATORS Plastic Box 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 60
96-15 STORMCAST ETERNALS LORD-CELESTANT Plastic Clam 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 40
65-10 AGE OF SIGMAR COMBAT GAUGE Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 40
65-12 STORMCAST ETERNALS DICE SHAKER Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 50
65-13 KHORNE BLOODBOUND DICE SHAKER Hobby Product 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 50
- WARHAMMER: AGE OF SIGMAR BOOK LIMITED ED Other Book 11-Jul-15 18-Jul-15 160
btw the limited edition is direct only (hence no orderable sku)
Manchu wrote: If AoS is more prone to being broken than 8th, then surely WAAC players should like it more? Or are we saying WAAC players prefer more of a challenge (from the system, that is; not necessarily their human opponents)?
I think people get labeled waac if only they dare to treat the game more serious and those probably wont play Age of Simple in its current form. For that mythical waac who arrogantly clubs baby seals and would love to invest in AoS just for the abuse potential, never met or heard about anyone like that older than 12 years old.
Plumbumbarum wrote: ...the only thing that makes it "narrative" is that players who value more serious competitions will migrate to other systems or play oldhammer.
I suppose that is one major benefit of Age of Sigmar. But I'm not sure it will actually happen. Seems like some people will to go great lengths to invent a way to use it in tournaments instead of just playing something else.
The app sounds cool, I imagine they'd make that free along with the warscrolls, but you'll have to buy the electronic versions of the campaign books and then it'll link em to the app for easy access and stuff.
still on the fence about getting the box set. I like the models but with the amt of stuff on my nerd table I doubt I'll ever get around to painting em.. and I feel funny playing with nekkid models. Also kinda wondering if the squad box versions of them will be more posable, kinda like space marines with separate torsos and bodies... since the starter models are usually more monopose than the rest?
Much excitement to be had with all these releases none the less. Games Workshop has the power to dominate the market, they just need to make the right decisions. So far, so good.
Manchu wrote: If AoS is more prone to being broken than 8th, then surely WAAC players should like it more? Or are we saying WAAC players prefer more of a challenge (from the system, that is; not necessarily their human opponents)?
Eh, WAAC is a bastardized thing nowadays. It's basically a generic insult that means "you play the game at a higher level than I am comfortable with, so I'm going to shun you and call you names".
Honestly I'm surprised the term LCD hasn't been used to counter people who use it frequently.
An app that's free to download, and contains a small amount of free stuff. But then charges to download full rules packs? They'll be some WM players picking their words carefully, some might even have to stop the memes for a bit.
Plumbumbarum wrote: For that mythical waac who arrogantly clubs baby seals and would love to invest in AoS just for the abuse potential, never met or heard about anyone like that older than 12 years old.
If that is true, then AoS should play fine outside of internet argument.
The Division Of Joy wrote: An app that's free to download, and contains a small amount of free stuff. But then charges to download full rules packs? They'll be some WM players picking their words carefully, some might even have to stop the memes for a bit.
I've seen no indication of the above for the AoS app.
Manchu wrote: If AoS is more prone to being broken than 8th, then surely WAAC players should like it more? Or are we saying WAAC players prefer more of a challenge (from the system, that is; not necessarily their human opponents)?
Eh, WAAC is a bastardized thing nowadays. It's basically a generic insult that means "you play the game at a higher level than I am comfortable with, so I'm going to shun you and call you names".
Honestly I'm surprised the term LCD hasn't been used to counter people who use it frequently.
The Division Of Joy wrote: An app that's free to download, and contains a small amount of free stuff. But then charges to download full rules packs? They'll be some WM players picking their words carefully, some might even have to stop the memes for a bit.
I've seen no indication of the above for the AoS app.
TBF the opposite of LCD isn't WAAC but rather CPMR (competitive player master race).
Okay I made that one up.
If one player is super into building cheesy lists and arguing about them on the internet but rarely builds or paints any of his models and rarely plays and another player has thousands of points (or scrolls) of beautifully painted miniatures and plays weekly games with his friends using non-competitive lists, who is the more "serious" player? Who is playing at "a higher level"?
In reality, there are all kinds of ways to enjoy this hobby.
The Division Of Joy wrote: An app that's free to download, and contains a small amount of free stuff. But then charges to download full rules packs? They'll be some WM players picking their words carefully, some might even have to stop the memes for a bit.
Except it would be different because nothing is forcing you to buy the rules packs on war room as you get all the rules for the models on the cards you get with the models, including points costs. If you're forced to buy rules packs on the AoS app to get the 'points' or whatever, it's still worse than War Room because you're forced to do so, where as War Room you can just ignore that it exists.
That's if the app is where the balancing stuff is located but that might be an old rumour now anyway. If not then yeah it's the same thing.
So if the large expensive book contains Warscrolls and campaigns will we expect to see those warscrolls online for free at somepoint? Or will any new introduces Warscrolls only be obtainable through a purchase?
Xyxox wrote:
There are no spiky bits to discourage climbing it, so I expect an orange cone hat at some point in the not too distant future.
Stelios? Is that Stelios? I want a plane ticket to Nottingham right away!
Avrik_Shasla wrote:Games Workshop has the power to dominate the market, they just need to make the right decisions. So far, so good.
Alternatively: Games Workshop has the power to dominate the market, they just need to make the right decisions. So far... pfft?
Manchu wrote:If one player is super into building cheesy lists and arguing about them on the internet but rarely builds or paints any of his models and rarely plays and another player has thousands of points (or scrolls) of beautifully painted miniatures and plays weekly games with his friends using non-competitive lists, who is the more "serious" player? Who is playing at "a higher level"?
In reality, there are all kinds of ways to enjoy this hobby.
And GW's contradictory rules, intent, and message will make sure that people who have different ways of enjoying this hobby will butt heads more often than usual.
Vermis wrote: And GW's contradictory rules, intent, and message will make sure that people who enjoy different ways of enjoying this hobby will butt heads more often than usual.
I kind of doubt that. Seems like people who are more into competitive gaming will steer clear of AoS. And people who are more into narrative gaming will join in.
Plumbumbarum wrote: For that mythical waac who arrogantly clubs baby seals and would love to invest in AoS just for the abuse potential, never met or heard about anyone like that older than 12 years old.
If that is true, then AoS should play fine outside of internet argument.
Not really no. It will be unbalanced even if you dont abuse it, basic things like pivoting or measurement barely work also last but not least, appears to be less tactical than whfb.
Not to mention it will absolutely play bad for newcomers who wont have any idea how to make sth resembling even forces.
We will all be newcomers to AoS. The starter box seems pretty well balanced. Once people new to AoS and wargaming generally get the feel for it, they will be okay making up their own scenarios.
Vermis wrote: And GW's contradictory rules, intent, and message will make sure that people who enjoy different ways of enjoying this hobby will butt heads more often than usual.
I kind of doubt that. Seems like people who are more into competitive gaming will steer clear of AoS. And people who are more into narrative gaming will join in.
This was my point.
As to the use of WAAC.. people who look for technicalities in the rules, take FotM armies, have zero interest in sportsmanship, and often go to extreme measures to win games. If your club doesn't have these, I am thoroughly surprised. I've gamed with people who throw dice, that same guy would take a Rhino off the table if it got popped and spike it like a football.. One instance, I had a pewter part fly over and cut my leg.
Another, the guy sets up "sniping" lanes with vehicles so that only specific models are visible, so those are the ones that have to be pulled.
Then there's the guy who argues over every single thing you do so that the rulebook ends up out the entire game. Same guy does beardy measuring and generous disembark.
Old WHFB dirty tricks like catching corners and the different exploits that dealt with facing and re-dressing.
With guess weapons back in the day or I guess in WHFB too, guys who would have things that were a certain pre-known size, and conveniently leave them on the table prior to their shooting phase. "Gee, why is that rulebook laying there?"
Guys that had special dice (more than one was busted) or non-standard templates that are a bit larger than the official ones...
Guys in tournaments that switch out to an entirely different army when they find out what you're playing.
When I gamed at a club, I put up with this stuff but when I consider branching back out and see this kinda stuff still considered norm (that was in Va Beach, I see the same stuff in San Diego).
No, I don't do these things. All of this type of thing, plus seeing grown men get in each others faces and yell (you could see flecks of spit most times), people packing their stuff and storming out, or all the little net-list guys running around looking for loopholes in the rules or bad punctuation so that they could build an army around a poorly phrased section of rules. Again.. if you somehow have managed to game in a place where these things don't happen.. I'm amazed and my hat is off to you.. but WAAC is a real thing. A guy named Shane said this to me "winning is all that matters.. if I'm not winning, I'm not having fun. This game is all about having fun right?"
I'm happy for Dumbhammer because if it's that simple, how do you pull the above crap? Yeah, cheating is cheating but come on..
Manchu wrote: TBF the opposite of LCD isn't WAAC but rather CPMR (competitive player master race).
Okay I made that one up.
If one player is super into building cheesy lists and arguing about them on the internet but rarely builds or paints any of his models and rarely plays and another player has thousands of points (or scrolls) of beautifully painted miniatures and plays weekly games with his friends using non-competitive lists, who is the more "serious" player? Who is playing at "a higher level"?
In reality, there are all kinds of ways to enjoy this hobby.
Eh true, I just used it an example because I'm pretty sure the people I call LCDs don't fit the technical definition of an LCD (thus the same situation as many people who use the term WAAC).
LCDs for me are the people who play at a casual level and shun anyone who doesn't play the game the way they want to. They expect their friends to always tone down their lists and will refuse to compromise, the term "Think of the other players fun" is just a phrase they use to guilt trip their more competitive friends (because they sure as hell don't care about the comp players fun). If that competitive friend asked them to play a more competitive army after say 100 games of giving the LCD what they want, the LCD would try to appeal to "common internet sympathy" or use phrases as "GW intended it this way" to reinforce control and not play.
Basically LCDs are the casual equivalent of an elitist for me.
Manchu wrote: We will all be newcomers to AoS. The starter box seems pretty well balanced. Once people new to AoS and wargaming generally get the feel for it, they will be okay making up their own scenarios.
If the people are fine with their games being tacticaly meaningless then sure but without a good balancing mechanism you dont even have a way of saying whether it's your tactics or not that decided the game. You can guess and that's it.
@MLaw you mixed people who are serious with the rules, straight cheaters, douches, guys with a temper, guys just jumping the GWs "gentleman agreement" idiocy and normal guys playing by the rules. You only proved to me that the term is a meaningless mess.
Not to mention half of the problems you mention wouldnt exist if the rules weren't crap. What kind of ridiculous game this has to be that you as a player have to rely on massive exodus of other kind of players, elaborate pre game negotiations, trusted friendships or fixing the rules to have a chance to have some fun. Really I'd make anything work with all that.
That's what good ruleset is for, to avoid all the bs.
griffen127 wrote: So can someone give me a synopsis on what is going on. The the two camps of pro vs con. Sorry but there's to many pages to read. Thanks
The pro side says this will be fun to play. The con side says this is even more horribly imbalanced than the previous version of the game. /nutshell
Vermis wrote: And GW's contradictory rules, intent, and message will make sure that people who enjoy different ways of enjoying this hobby will butt heads more often than usual.
I kind of doubt that. Seems like people who are more into competitive gaming will steer clear of AoS. And people who are more into narrative gaming will join in.
Hello, primarily narrative gamer here; hogwash.
This game is written for kids(who most definitely WILL end up butting heads because the "WAAC" types are more common there simply because kids mature at different rates and there will still be a few of the "nuh-uh, you totes didn't hit me, I shot you first!" gits floating about) and adults who just want to push models about as an excuse to meet up with their mates, not narrative gamers. If this mythical tome that will somehow magically fix the lack of factions, the abysmal fluff, the total lack of balance, the total lack of an army selection system beyond "take what you like, deploy 'till there's no more space"(and will supposedly accomplish this Herculean task without the industry standard of a points system) ever actually appears, maybe then it will appeal to narrative gamers as a group, until then it's a barely-functional "party game" not a functional storytelling tool.
Manchu wrote: We will all be newcomers to AoS. The starter box seems pretty well balanced. Once people new to AoS and wargaming generally get the feel for it, they will be okay making up their own scenarios.
If the people are fine with their games being tacticaly meaningless then sure but without a good balancing mechanism you dont even have a way of saying whether it's your tactics or not that decided the game. You can guess and that's it.
@MLaw you mixed people who are serious with the rules, straight cheaters, douches, guys with a temper, guys just jumping the GWs "gentleman agreement" idiocy and normal guys playing by the rules. You only proved to me that the term is a meaningless mess.
Not to mention half of the problems you mention wouldnt exist if the rules weren't crap. What kind of ridiculous game this has to be that you as a player have to rely on massive exodus of other kind of players, elaborate pre game negotiations, trusted friendships or fixing the rules to have a chance to have some fun. Really I'd make anything work with all that.
That's what good ruleset is for, to avoid all the bs.
You'll likely get a different answer asking different people what 'WAAC' means to them.
For me, WAAC are those guys who put 'winning' above everything else - including putting it above having fun.
Those guys -know- who they are, generally, and yeah, they hate the label - because it -fits-. Most of them will deny it, but - watching them play a game, and it becomes quite obvious.
Those same guys will say, 'Well, WAAC is my way of having fun!' which just proves the point, really.
Vermis wrote: And GW's contradictory rules, intent, and message will make sure that people who enjoy different ways of enjoying this hobby will butt heads more often than usual.
I kind of doubt that. Seems like people who are more into competitive gaming will steer clear of AoS. And people who are more into narrative gaming will join in.
That also neatly sums up why I dislike AoS. Old WHF could more-or-less be played competitively as well as casually (albeit with more and more patching necessary by TO's as editions went on). Now the first set of gamers has been told they were having the wrong sort of fun, and Warhammer from this point onwards will be aggressively targeted away from them. Did you enjoy playing Warhammer as at least a semi-competitive game during the last twenty-odd years? Sucks to be you.
As to the use of WAAC.. people who look for technicalities in the rules, take FotM armies, have zero interest in sportsmanship, and often go to extreme measures to win games. If your club doesn't have these, I am thoroughly surprised. I've gamed with people who throw dice, that same guy would take a Rhino off the table if it got popped and spike it like a football.. One instance, I had a pewter part fly over and cut my leg.
Another, the guy sets up "sniping" lanes with vehicles so that only specific models are visible, so those are the ones that have to be pulled.
Then there's the guy who argues over every single thing you do so that the rulebook ends up out the entire game. Same guy does beardy measuring and generous disembark.
Old WHFB dirty tricks like catching corners and the different exploits that dealt with facing and re-dressing.
With guess weapons back in the day or I guess in WHFB too, guys who would have things that were a certain pre-known size, and conveniently leave them on the table prior to their shooting phase. "Gee, why is that rulebook laying there?"
Guys that had special dice (more than one was busted) or non-standard templates that are a bit larger than the official ones...
Guys in tournaments that switch out to an entirely different army when they find out what you're playing.
When I gamed at a club, I put up with this stuff but when I consider branching back out and see this kinda stuff still considered norm (that was in Va Beach, I see the same stuff in San Diego).
No, I don't do these things. All of this type of thing, plus seeing grown men get in each others faces and yell (you could see flecks of spit most times), people packing their stuff and storming out, or all the little net-list guys running around looking for loopholes in the rules or bad punctuation so that they could build an army around a poorly phrased section of rules. Again.. if you somehow have managed to game in a place where these things don't happen.. I'm amazed and my hat is off to you.. but WAAC is a real thing. A guy named Shane said this to me "winning is all that matters.. if I'm not winning, I'm not having fun. This game is all about having fun right?"
I'm happy for Dumbhammer because if it's that simple, how do you pull the above crap? Yeah, cheating is cheating but come on..
Spoiler'd for viewing sake, but half that stuff is actually leveraging the tactics allowed by the rules and other is actively cheating. There's a difference. The connotation of WAAC seems to integrate the people legitimately trying to play their best and to win, which is part of the game, with the turd muffins actually winning at all costs, including cheating, lying and deceit. Warhammer 40k is the only gaming community that lumps them together, most others realize the difference and don't diminish those looking to perfect the art of the game (and of the win) and instead embrace it by balancing the rules in a manner such that the strongest player can still play with the most casual and have it be a game if they're both honest and active in participation.
And no, random tables, charges, and objectives do not make a game balanced.
The concept of "beer and pretzels" game usually means one that can be played casually with minimal interest in outcome; a time waster. Well, a better made game is always going to be better "beer and pretzels" play because less time is invested in deciphering rules meaning or belittling various styles of play and more time actually playing and enjoying the game.
If you think something is cheap, you're actively being the negative "WAAC" person, or as matter of fact, a scrub; you're forcing false inhibitions not put into the game on yourself, or worse, on others, and making a stink because people are embracing all the rules. The rules are the rules, live by them, die by them. And if you chose a game with dumb or bad rules and then complain about getting curbed stomped by people following them, then the problem is actually you. Again, only an issue really in the 40k gaming community from what I've seen as the people who try to pull that in other games usually quit back to 40k instead of stepping up typically.
WOTC gets this. What frustrates so many people (myself included), is that GW seemingly doesn't.
Notice that in the MTG articles they actually differentiate between power gamers and tournament gamers. And yet in wargaming discussion the two are constantly confused. People always assumethat to be competitive means you only have fun when you win.
The second article shows that they not only understand that there are different kinds of gamers, but they understand why. And of course most gamers are in fact a combination of types.
So why is it so hard for GW to just acknowledge this?
Elemental wrote: Now the first set of gamers has been told they were having the wrong sort of fun
TBF this was hardly sprung on anyone. "You want to play a tournament? Figure it out for yourself." This has been the official line, shaping game design, for a while now.
Vermis wrote: And GW's contradictory rules, intent, and message will make sure that people who enjoy different ways of enjoying this hobby will butt heads more often than usual.
I kind of doubt that. Seems like people who are more into competitive gaming will steer clear of AoS. And people who are more into narrative gaming will join in.
That also neatly sums up why I dislike AoS. Old WHF could more-or-less be played competitively as well as casually (albeit with more and more patching necessary by TO's as editions went on). Now the first set of gamers has been told they were having the wrong sort of fun, and Warhammer from this point onwards will be aggressively targeted away from them. Did you enjoy playing Warhammer as at least a semi-competitive game during the last twenty-odd years? Sucks to be you.
I dunno... I think you might be associating motives with GW that may or may not exist.
They don't have a 'competitive' mechanic for AoS (yet). I don't think that's telling you that tournament play is 'wrong', I think that's telling you that they see no reason to use resources to present tournament play for you. The playerbase as a whole has spent -years- doing that FOR GW. Why should GW use resources to do something the playerbase will do for free?...
....Unless, GW can make something out of it. According to rumors in this thread, GW -is- working on some sort of 'competitive mechanic'.... and there have been rumors mentioned that there will be some sort of cost/subscription required to access it.
We'll see in time, but taking it 'personally' that GW doesn't present tournament mechanics for you just seems a bit misplaced. And 'designing' the game specifically away from competitive play? That doesn't make a whole bunch of sense, either. Literally any game can be given the 'tournament play' treatment, or any 'activity' that involves competition - which AoS certainly possesses.
Chopxsticks wrote: So if the large expensive book contains Warscrolls and campaigns will we expect to see those warscrolls online for free at somepoint? Or will any new introduces Warscrolls only be obtainable through a purchase?
The book coming out is not needed for AOS. It's stories, fluff, some warscrolls that I expect will be from upcoming model releases and units in the starter set.
We'll see in time, but taking it 'personally' that GW doesn't present tournament mechanics for you just seems a bit misplaced. And 'designing' the game specifically away from competitive play? That doesn't make a whole bunch of sense, either. Literally any game can be given the 'tournament play' treatment, or any 'activity' that involves competition - which AoS certainly possesses.
Another good point.
One example that comes to mind is Super Smash Brothers Melee. What was designed to be a party game was turned into a hyper competitive e sport by a small group of players. For years tournaments drawing hundreds of players thrived. Nintendo knew that these competitive players existed, by basically ignored them. You'd think that they would have viewed this as untapped territory, with profit to be made. Instead, when they released Brawl, they were accused of making the game less competitive deliberately. They game physics were altered to make characters more "floaty" The ability to combo was reduced. Instead of balancing the characters and stages, they were thrown out of balance even further, and more random elements were added. Basically, the game was altered to make player skill less of a factor. Most competitive players just kept playing Melee. Others modded Brawl to be more in line with their tastes. But Nintendo has run into some financial problems of their own lately, meanwhile, E Sports are blowing up. It makes you wonder what would have happened had they embrace the competitive community instead of shunning it.
Now obviously this example still proves your point. The competitive Super Smash Bros community got on just fine despite Nintendos efforts. But honestly, I just don't see the wargaming community doing as much. I haven't seen any major tournaments go back to older editions, or rewrite the rules. Rather, I see more and more players giving up on tournaments, or the game entirely. I guess we just don't have the same amount of passion for our game as SSB players do for theirs.
Manchu wrote:I kind of doubt that. Seems like people who are more into competitive gaming will steer clear of AoS. And people who are more into narrative gaming will join in.
Pretty much what Yodhrin and Delicate Swarm said, or variations: don't confuse competitive gamers who want a balanced, fair system with power gamers who delight in seeking out every little loophole and imbalance to take advantage of them. The latter seemed to like 40K and WFB because of the imbalance and spam possible in the overwhelmingly listbuilding-based systems. If they could get that much and gain such a reputation from abusing GW's unbound, half-a-shrug attempts at points systems, what's it going to be like with no points system at all, just 'bring what you like'?
MLaw wrote:As to the use of WAAC.. people who look for technicalities in the rules, take FotM armies, have zero interest in sportsmanship, and often go to extreme measures to win games. If your club doesn't have these, I am thoroughly surprised.
Okay.
I've gamed with people who throw dice, that same guy would take a Rhino off the table if it got popped and spike it like a football.
A rhino. Okay. That's 40K, unless you're playing some obscure safari game.
Old WHFB dirty tricks like catching corners
WHFB, okay.
With guess weapons back in the day or I guess in WHFB too,
WHFB again, and... what's the 'too'? Is that 40K, and WHFB too?
No mention of other games. Just 40K and WHFB? The two core games of GW? GW's core systems?
- 80-02-01 and 80-02-60 are the previous codes of the old WFB BRB. When a product becomes obsolete it usually gives its code to its replacement.
- "BS1 MSL of 1" means those are important items, all retailers being part of the stockist program, even at the lowest level (BS1), must have as many as the MSL present on their shelves at all time.
- 80-02-01 and 80-02-60 are the previous codes of the old WFB BRB. When a product becomes obsolete it usually gives its code to its replacement.
- "BS1 MSL of 1" means those are important items, all retailers being part of the stockist program, even at the lowest level (BS1), must have as many as the MSL present on their shelves at all time.
MSL = "Minimum Stock Level", with MSL 1 = "Minimum Stock Level = 1 copy" perhaps?
Interesting that this coming book would take over the BRB stock #.
Chopxsticks wrote: So if the large expensive book contains Warscrolls and campaigns will we expect to see those warscrolls online for free at somepoint? Or will any new introduces Warscrolls only be obtainable through a purchase?
The book coming out is not needed for AOS. It's stories, fluff, some warscrolls that I expect will be from upcoming model releases and units in the starter set.
"They are going to fully support all modes of play, and will be releasing rules to balance armies against each other. There will be narrative campaigns where your forces are picked for you for specific missions, and there will be a system for tournament players to balance lists that isn't based on model count. He did not know the specifics of this, but said it is definitely coming.
The rules will always be free. He said that they are very very aware that fantasy had a massive buy in for someone to get started, as such the game was designed with the ability to play it with one box of models. There will be army books, but every rule in them will be available, for free, online. The books will just have extra background info and scenarios."
Chopxsticks wrote: So if the large expensive book contains Warscrolls and campaigns will we expect to see those warscrolls online for free at somepoint? Or will any new introduces Warscrolls only be obtainable through a purchase?
The book coming out is not needed for AOS. It's stories, fluff, some warscrolls that I expect will be from upcoming model releases and units in the starter set.
"They are going to fully support all modes of play, and will be releasing rules to balance armies against each other. There will be narrative campaigns where your forces are picked for you for specific missions, and there will be a system for tournament players to balance lists that isn't based on model count. He did not know the specifics of this, but said it is definitely coming.
The rules will always be free. He said that they are very very aware that fantasy had a massive buy in for someone to get started, as such the game was designed with the ability to play it with one box of models. There will be army books, but every rule in them will be available, for free, online. The books will just have extra background info and scenarios."
So. . . now it's offical you can automatically win turn 1 with the screaming bell Lord of change combo. Besides that it sounds like AoS might actually be a great game if they can follow through on that guys promises
So. . . now it's offical you can automatically win turn 1 with the screaming bell Lord of change combo. Besides that it sounds like AoS might actually be a great game if they can follow through on that guys promises
Peal of Doom In your hero phase, the Screaming Bell tolls. Roll two dice, add the scores together and consult the table below to see what happens (no modifiers can be applied to this roll).
13 - Improbable Victory!: Against all probability and reason, you immediately win the battle (and are hereafter branded a cheat – not that that should bother a true skaven general).
I wonder if they'll work up some rules for all current 40K armies, too? Maybe I should hang on to my Dark Angels for now, especially since my Ork Boyz will work with the current system.
So. . . now it's offical you can automatically win turn 1 with the screaming bell Lord of change combo. Besides that it sounds like AoS might actually be a great game if they can follow through on that guys promises
Peal of Doom In your hero phase, the Screaming Bell tolls. Roll two dice, add the scores together and consult the table below to see what happens (no modifiers can be applied to this roll).
13 - Improbable Victory!: Against all probability and reason, you immediately win the battle (and are hereafter branded a cheat – not that that should bother a true skaven general).
Pay no mind to the branding iron that will be on hand at many local game stores.
While the new rules are a thing that's debatable, I'm still not sure how AoS required the elimination of the Old World and all it's years of fluff with the End Times.
At the eleventh hour, with Khorne ascendant from all the bloodshed of the war of the End Times, the forces of Good finally get their wish and a god- Sigmar himself- emerges to be their champion against the Chaos Gods. He beings with him a force of beings ascended from battlefields the Old World over, reforged into angelic beings to support the side of Order.
At the same time the sinister Grimdark side of everything is preserved, because like some players have said- at their heart, these pinnacles of good are effectively "good" Necrons, dying in battle only to have their souls placed in new bodies and sent back into an eternity of battle.
Pretty much every race could stay the same, it's just that lots of them would now have their "gods", whether divine or just powerful mortals that are transcended, on the mortal plane backing them directly.
Part of the coolness of the Old World was that you had a really cool world to delve into in the fluff and in games you could imagine your armies during campaign games were actually interacting with that world.
Right now, the idea of multiple realms or Order, Death, Chaos, etc that simply have gates connecting them is kinda soulless. I hope it gets fleshed out much, much better in the book that comes with the game, and over the next however long the game exists.
It's gonna be hard to top the Old World, though. Or impossible.
AegisGrimm wrote: While the new rules are a thing that's debatable, I'm still not sure how AoS required the elimination of the Old World and all it's years of fluff with the End Times.
At the eleventh hour, with Khorne ascendant from all the bloodshed of the war of the End Times, the forces of Good finally get their wish and a god- Sigmar himself- emerges to be their champion against the Chaos Gods. He beings with him a force of beings ascended from battlefields the Old World over, reforged into angelic beings to support the side of Order.
At the same time the sinister Grimdark side of everything is preserved, because like some players have said- at their heart, these pinnacles of good are effectively "good" Necrons, dying in battle only to have their souls placed in new bodies and sent back into an eternity of battle.
Pretty much every race could stay the same, it's just that lots of them would now have their "gods", whether divine or just powerful mortals that are transcended, on the mortal plane backing them directly.
Nuking all the old fluff means they have legitimate reason to say "X" unit no longer exists. Here's some silly rules to play your old models, but we're not gonna talk about those anymore. Here, try these New and Fineproved™ miniatures to add to your Finellection™.
Age of Sigmar isn't about advancing the story... That's just a secondary effect. The prime objective of AoS, as far as I can see, was to shift the setting into something that GW could Trademark every single part of.
I may be a pessimist, but I have a hard time believing AoS will come up with stuff to match Gotrek and Felix fighting across the Old World, or the old Albion campaign, etc.
Eldarain wrote: I was definitely imagining a post-apocalyptic Old World being the backdrop of the new edition after they began the End Times.
Same, and I was genuinely stoked. But they azerothed all over this piece.
Edit: the more I think about it, the more down with the sigmarines I would have been if this were literally the same scenario except they were coming to liberate a shattered and twisted Old World instead of a bunch of charmless planar dimensions that I don't have any attachment to at all.
Elemental wrote: Now the first set of gamers has been told they were having the wrong sort of fun
TBF this was hardly sprung on anyone. "You want to play a tournament? Figure it out for yourself." This has been the official line, shaping game design, for a while now.
And that's an excuse for GW to abdicate all responsibility when it comes to writing a decent set of rules?
Edit: the more I think about it, the more down with the sigmarines I would have been if this were literally the same scenario except they were coming to liberate a shattered and twisted Old World instead of a bunch of charmless planar dimensions that I don't have any attachment to at all.
Heck yeah, I imagine them coming down in like Asgardians in the Thor Movies, right between an Empire army and a Chaos force.
Elemental wrote: Now the first set of gamers has been told they were having the wrong sort of fun
TBF this was hardly sprung on anyone. "You want to play a tournament? Figure it out for yourself." This has been the official line, shaping game design, for a while now.
And that's an excuse for GW to abdicate all responsibility when it comes to writing a decent set of rules?
As long as it sells models, and it looks like AoS will sell models, who cares if anybody can play the rules?
insaniak wrote: Age of Sigmar isn't about advancing the story... That's just a secondary effect. The prime objective of AoS, as far as I can see, was to shift the setting into something that GW could Trademark every single part of.
It's sad that the overall effect of the CHS case was a company more paranoid, insular, secretive and petty than ever before.
insaniak wrote: Age of Sigmar isn't about advancing the story... That's just a secondary effect. The prime objective of AoS, as far as I can see, was to shift the setting into something that GW could Trademark every single part of.
It's sad that the overall effect of the CHS case was a company more paranoid, insular, secretive and petty than ever before.
Elemental wrote: Now the first set of gamers has been told they were having the wrong sort of fun
TBF this was hardly sprung on anyone. "You want to play a tournament? Figure it out for yourself." This has been the official line, shaping game design, for a while now.
And that's an excuse for GW to abdicate all responsibility when it comes to writing a decent set of rules?
As long as it sells models, and it looks like AoS will sell models, who cares if anybody can play the rules?
If it actually sells models...it will mean I was wrong and they still hold the old commandments to be sacred:
1. Sell more lead
2. Space Marines always win
3. See rule one.
Elemental wrote: Now the first set of gamers has been told they were having the wrong sort of fun
TBF this was hardly sprung on anyone. "You want to play a tournament? Figure it out for yourself." This has been the official line, shaping game design, for a while now.
And that's an excuse for GW to abdicate all responsibility when it comes to writing a decent set of rules?
As long as it sells models, and it looks like AoS will sell models, who cares if anybody can play the rules?
If it actually sells models...it will mean I was wrong and they still hold the old commandments to be sacred:
1. Sell more lead
2. Space Marines always win
3. See rule one.
There is a core of fanboys who will literally buy ANYTHING branded "Games Workshop".
So. . . now it's offical you can automatically win turn 1 with the screaming bell Lord of change combo. Besides that it sounds like AoS might actually be a great game if they can follow through on that guys promises
Peal of Doom In your hero phase, the Screaming Bell tolls. Roll two dice, add the scores together and consult the table below to see what happens (no modifiers can be applied to this roll).
13 - Improbable Victory!: Against all probability and reason, you immediately win the battle (and are hereafter branded a cheat – not that that should bother a true skaven general).
Not exactly sure what the point of this post was? Did you happen to read the link in the quote?
Here it is "I forgot probably the best/worst bit. I asked him if he knew that it was possible to win the game first turn with the screaming bell/fateweaver thing. 'Thats deliberate' he said. 'You can do whatever you want in this game, but if you do stuff like that you probably wont have many people to play against."
Chopxsticks wrote: So if the large expensive book contains Warscrolls and campaigns will we expect to see those warscrolls online for free at somepoint? Or will any new introduces Warscrolls only be obtainable through a purchase?
The book coming out is not needed for AOS. It's stories, fluff, some warscrolls that I expect will be from upcoming model releases and units in the starter set.
"They are going to fully support all modes of play, and will be releasing rules to balance armies against each other. There will be narrative campaigns where your forces are picked for you for specific missions, and there will be a system for tournament players to balance lists that isn't based on model count. He did not know the specifics of this, but said it is definitely coming.
The rules will always be free. He said that they are very very aware that fantasy had a massive buy in for someone to get started, as such the game was designed with the ability to play it with one box of models. There will be army books, but every rule in them will be available, for free, online. The books will just have extra background info and scenarios."
This all sounds sort of believable. Isn't it how a lot of companies handle their rules now (corvus belli, mantic etc)?
It would no doubt involve some swallowing of pride.
Edit: aaand just read the screaming bell response (thought the quoted part was the full thing). Yeah, they have no idea what they are doing, if that is true.
So. . . now it's offical you can automatically win turn 1 with the screaming bell Lord of change combo. Besides that it sounds like AoS might actually be a great game if they can follow through on that guys promises
Peal of Doom In your hero phase, the Screaming Bell tolls. Roll two dice, add the scores together and consult the table below to see what happens (no modifiers can be applied to this roll).
13 - Improbable Victory!: Against all probability and reason, you immediately win the battle (and are hereafter branded a cheat – not that that should bother a true skaven general).
Not exactly sure what the point of this post was? Did you happen to read the link in the quote?
Here it is "I forgot probably the best/worst bit. I asked him if he knew that it was possible to win the game first turn with the screaming bell/fateweaver thing. 'Thats deliberate' he said. 'You can do whatever you want in this game, but if you do stuff like that you probably wont have many people to play against."
Unless someone else can verify that, I won't believe it.
Natfka will post anything for the clicks, and this information was 'apparently' sent in by a reader, not even by someone we know can be trusted.
So. . . now it's offical you can automatically win turn 1 with the screaming bell Lord of change combo. Besides that it sounds like AoS might actually be a great game if they can follow through on that guys promises
Peal of Doom In your hero phase, the Screaming Bell tolls. Roll two dice, add the scores together and consult the table below to see what happens (no modifiers can be applied to this roll).
13 - Improbable Victory!: Against all probability and reason, you immediately win the battle (and are hereafter branded a cheat – not that that should bother a true skaven general).
Not exactly sure what the point of this post was? Did you happen to read the link in the quote?
Here it is "I forgot probably the best/worst bit. I asked him if he knew that it was possible to win the game first turn with the screaming bell/fateweaver thing. 'Thats deliberate' he said. 'You can do whatever you want in this game, but if you do stuff like that you probably wont have many people to play against."
Unless someone else can verify that, I won't believe it.
Natfka will post anything for the clicks, and this information was 'apparently' sent in by a reader, not even by someone we know can be trusted.
This Is dakkadakka, where the worst of rumors is truth and the best is just lies.
Chopxsticks wrote: So if the large expensive book contains Warscrolls and campaigns will we expect to see those warscrolls online for free at somepoint? Or will any new introduces Warscrolls only be obtainable through a purchase?
The book coming out is not needed for AOS. It's stories, fluff, some warscrolls that I expect will be from upcoming model releases and units in the starter set.
"They are going to fully support all modes of play, and will be releasing rules to balance armies against each other. There will be narrative campaigns where your forces are picked for you for specific missions, and there will be a system for tournament players to balance lists that isn't based on model count. He did not know the specifics of this, but said it is definitely coming.
The rules will always be free. He said that they are very very aware that fantasy had a massive buy in for someone to get started, as such the game was designed with the ability to play it with one box of models. There will be army books, but every rule in them will be available, for free, online. The books will just have extra background info and scenarios."
This all sounds sort of believable. Isn't it how a lot of companies handle their rules now (corvus belli, mantic etc)?
It would no doubt involve some swallowing of pride.
Edit: aaand just read the screaming bell response (thought the quoted part was the full thing). Yeah, they have no idea what they are doing.
Is that a "beard rule?" Because if you read that blog post they explicitely say that those are only in the WFB warscolls. What is the rule combo in question?
Edit: oh, the beard rule where you roll 2d6 and get a 13 somehow to win?
Last Saturday I looked at the new models and other gear and so I pre-ordered my AoS box set, I got extremely excited about AoS and the way that Fantasy is heading.
The models are hot as and looking to painting them.
At a GW store today the guy said he was told by his boss that fantesy was a dieing game, and that at his story it only made up 16% of their sales. they made more off selling paints then they did off the fantesy range.
was a odd claim so thought i'd throw it out their.
I'm sorry, but there is no conceivable way a Lord of Change can affect the Screaming Bell.
Peal of Doom is not a spell. There is no roll to attempt to cast it. It just happens. It is NOT listed under the Magic header. It is listed under the Abilities header. Therefore, the LoC doesn't get to play around with it.
So. . . now it's offical you can automatically win turn 1 with the screaming bell Lord of change combo. Besides that it sounds like AoS might actually be a great game if they can follow through on that guys promises
Peal of Doom In your hero phase, the Screaming Bell tolls. Roll two dice, add the scores together and consult the table below to see what happens (no modifiers can be applied to this roll).
13 - Improbable Victory!: Against all probability and reason, you immediately win the battle (and are hereafter branded a cheat – not that that should bother a true skaven general).
Not exactly sure what the point of this post was? Did you happen to read the link in the quote?
Here it is "I forgot probably the best/worst bit. I asked him if he knew that it was possible to win the game first turn with the screaming bell/fateweaver thing. 'Thats deliberate' he said. 'You can do whatever you want in this game, but if you do stuff like that you probably wont have many people to play against."
Yeah, and the quote I got from GW today when i mentioned FW open day was "Omg, yeah, who the hell let that idiot talk!"
That guys was a redshirt, you do remember the high esteem we hold redshirts, especially when judging rules?
So. . . now it's offical you can automatically win turn 1 with the screaming bell Lord of change combo. Besides that it sounds like AoS might actually be a great game if they can follow through on that guys promises
Peal of Doom In your hero phase, the Screaming Bell tolls. Roll two dice, add the scores together and consult the table below to see what happens (no modifiers can be applied to this roll).
13 - Improbable Victory!: Against all probability and reason, you immediately win the battle (and are hereafter branded a cheat – not that that should bother a true skaven general).
Not exactly sure what the point of this post was? Did you happen to read the link in the quote?
Here it is "I forgot probably the best/worst bit. I asked him if he knew that it was possible to win the game first turn with the screaming bell/fateweaver thing. 'Thats deliberate' he said. 'You can do whatever you want in this game, but if you do stuff like that you probably wont have many people to play against."
Yeah, and the quote I got from GW today when i mentioned FW open day was "Omg, yeah, who the hell let that idiot talk!"
That guys was a redshirt, you do remember the high esteem we hold redshirts, especially when judging rules?
Lockark wrote: At a GW store today the guy said he was told by his boss that fantesy was a dieing game, and that at his story it only made up 16% of their sales. they made more off selling paints then they did off the fantesy range.
was a odd claim so thought i'd throw it out their.
From what I have heard, this is actually a decent number for % of sales in GW stores. Hope to get some solid numbers soon, just out of curiosity.
In my stores they have been running more like 1-2% some months when there is no big release like endtimes or a new army with kits.
So. . . now it's offical you can automatically win turn 1 with the screaming bell Lord of change combo. Besides that it sounds like AoS might actually be a great game if they can follow through on that guys promises
Peal of Doom In your hero phase, the Screaming Bell tolls. Roll two dice, add the scores together and consult the table below to see what happens (no modifiers can be applied to this roll).
13 - Improbable Victory!: Against all probability and reason, you immediately win the battle (and are hereafter branded a cheat – not that that should bother a true skaven general).
Not exactly sure what the point of this post was? Did you happen to read the link in the quote?
Here it is "I forgot probably the best/worst bit. I asked him if he knew that it was possible to win the game first turn with the screaming bell/fateweaver thing. 'Thats deliberate' he said. 'You can do whatever you want in this game, but if you do stuff like that you probably wont have many people to play against."
Yeah, and the quote I got from GW today when i mentioned FW open day was "Omg, yeah, who the hell let that idiot talk!"
That guys was a redshirt, you do remember the high esteem we hold redshirts, especially when judging rules?
You got a screen cap of that?
Conversation while talking with GW US, not really possible to get a screencap of it.
“When asked to write these few introductory words I hardly expected to find myself writing the foreword to what is undoubtedly now the most popular mass-battle fantasy game on the market!”
“Many converts have found themselves won over by a mixture of solid game play, straight-forward but elegant mechanics, and an approach to development that plainly puts the player first.”
“Well done especially to its creator and designer Alessio Cavatore. I have worked together with Alessio on many gaming projects over the years, both historical and fantasy, and have always appreciated his clear and focussed approach to game design, instinct for uncluttered rules, and – most of all – boundless and unquenchable enthusiasm for games and gaming.”
I believe that is correct.
A while ago I cobbled together enough info from the Games Workshop financial statements, FFG's report/open day, and the ICV2 data to work out that:
GW makes $X of sales in the US.
FFG makes $Y on miniatures games in the US, 95% of which is X-Wing, and 95% through independent retailers
ICV2 says X-Wing sells more than Fantasy but less than 40k at independent retailers
Independent retailers make up Z% of GW's US sales
If we assume that Fantasy sells equal proportions in independents as it does in other channels, and sells equal proportions in other regions as the US, and it makes as much as X-Wing... Fantasy accounts for something less than 1/6 of GW's sales. And thats if GW's only sales are Fantasy and 40k - factor in hobby tools and it goes lower.
I can't remember what the exact numbers were or where from. But its legit.
“When asked to write these few introductory words I hardly expected to find myself writing the foreword to what is undoubtedly now the most popular mass-battle fantasy game on the market!”
“Many converts have found themselves won over by a mixture of solid game play, straight-forward but elegant mechanics, and an approach to development that plainly puts the player first.”
“Well done especially to its creator and designer Alessio Cavatore. I have worked together with Alessio on many gaming projects over the years, both historical and fantasy, and have always appreciated his clear and focussed approach to game design, instinct for uncluttered rules, and – most of all – boundless and unquenchable enthusiasm for games and gaming.”
interesting indeed. I know Ronnie is a friend of Rick's.
I can understand the idea of counter trolling people who ask about Kairos Fateweaver combos. Just go, "Yup! Anyone who plays a Skaven wagon thing and Kairos Fateweaver automatically wins every game, see ya later!" I mean if you were playing a regular WFB-like game with Kairos Fateweaver and one of your models had "dragonstomping" which gave you D3 extra attacks every turn, and you went, "I'm using his special ability on this D3 roll and I choose a billion!" it's not like people wouldn't look at you like you had horns growing out of your head. And then hand you a ball and note that you could bounce it.
I personally think if you really want Age of Sigmar to look dumb the best way is to actually review the game and find legitimate things that suck about it. Like, it doesn't scale up very well. Or, battles sometimes devolve into big, messy scrimmages which become boring. When you complain that female gamers can't grow moustaches to suit these unfair rules, or find game hacks that only work if you can't understand basic dice mechanics that anyone over 5 is expected to understand, 99.9% of human beings who hear your argument go, "That's nice," and then never listen to you again.
Lockark wrote: At a GW store today the guy said he was told by his boss that fantesy was a dieing game, and that at his story it only made up 16% of their sales. they made more off selling paints then they did off the fantesy range.
was a odd claim so thought i'd throw it out their.
Could that be because they push the hell out of 40K and let Fantasy to the way side?
I would be embarrassed to have that on my youtube channel, or be the one who made it. Only thing more pathetic then a man trying to be clever is a man using someone else's idea to try and be clever.
insaniak wrote: Age of Sigmar isn't about advancing the story... That's just a secondary effect. The prime objective of AoS, as far as I can see, was to shift the setting into something that GW could Trademark every single part of.
It's sad that the overall effect of the CHS case was a company more paranoid, insular, secretive and petty than ever before.
Irony being the fact that Mantic gained a lot of recognition and goodwill thanks to new GW rules and if able to capitalise on it, might grow into a much more significant competition than ever before.
I hope everyone who wants to play mass fantasy battles with their WHFB models finds KoW. That will probably be a nice chunk of sales for a company like Mantic. I don't think that demographic does much for a company like GW, however.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And that's an excuse for GW to abdicate all responsibility when it comes to writing a decent set of rules?
Responsibility?
You could make a point or too about quality products and such. Even now when the rules are free, they are still part of the game product that involves a top noch quality miniatures and abysmal quality rules.
Manchu wrote: We will all be newcomers to AoS. The starter box seems pretty well balanced. Once people new to AoS and wargaming generally get the feel for it, they will be okay making up their own scenarios.
If the people are fine with their games being tacticaly meaningless then sure but without a good balancing mechanism you dont even have a way of saying whether it's your tactics or not that decided the game. You can guess and that's it.
@MLaw you mixed people who are serious with the rules, straight cheaters, douches, guys with a temper, guys just jumping the GWs "gentleman agreement" idiocy and normal guys playing by the rules. You only proved to me that the term is a meaningless mess.
Not to mention half of the problems you mention wouldnt exist if the rules weren't crap. What kind of ridiculous game this has to be that you as a player have to rely on massive exodus of other kind of players, elaborate pre game negotiations, trusted friendships or fixing the rules to have a chance to have some fun. Really I'd make anything work with all that.
That's what good ruleset is for, to avoid all the bs.
You'll likely get a different answer asking different people what 'WAAC' means to them.
For me, WAAC are those guys who put 'winning' above everything else - including putting it above having fun.
Those guys -know- who they are, generally, and yeah, they hate the label - because it -fits-. Most of them will deny it, but - watching them play a game, and it becomes quite obvious.
Those same guys will say, 'Well, WAAC is my way of having fun!' which just proves the point, really.
Why would your opponent playing to win stop you from having fun? Does loosing ruin your fun? Sounds like waac heh.
I'd say my opponent being a "waac" is a requirement for a fun game where fun is a test of one's mind performed in a game set in cool universe with beautiful game pieces. Win itself is secondary but playing hard to win is crucial.
It sonds like a set of some vague arbitrary rules with a purpose of bringing the better player down instead of improving your tactics or your list where in fact you should be happy if your game is deep enough to let you do the former and very unhappy (about the rules not the players) if your game makes the latter impossible without taking a handful of visibly op units or combinations.
Plumbumbarum wrote: You could make a point or too about quality products and such.
Quality is in the eye of the beholder. Claiming GW has a responsibility to write a certain style of rules reveals quite an entitled attitude.
Products have universaly agreed inherent quality requirements. You can say that you like your car breaking every week because you like the adventure but you can find it hard to impose as a quality requirement.
Bad wording, not enough errata, vague rules, roll off conflicts, lack of balance are all traits of a low quality game, nothing wrong with you loving it for your own reason but the point stands. Not to mention that ignoring a feedback from large portion of your active consumers (competitive gamers) is one of the worst quality management crimes you can commit. Change your game accordingly or provide two games, do something or you're product is crap from qm standpoint.
Manchu wrote: We will all be newcomers to AoS. The starter box seems pretty well balanced. Once people new to AoS and wargaming generally get the feel for it, they will be okay making up their own scenarios.
If the people are fine with their games being tacticaly meaningless then sure but without a good balancing mechanism you dont even have a way of saying whether it's your tactics or not that decided the game. You can guess and that's it.
@MLaw you mixed people who are serious with the rules, straight cheaters, douches, guys with a temper, guys just jumping the GWs "gentleman agreement" idiocy and normal guys playing by the rules. You only proved to me that the term is a meaningless mess.
Not to mention half of the problems you mention wouldnt exist if the rules weren't crap. What kind of ridiculous game this has to be that you as a player have to rely on massive exodus of other kind of players, elaborate pre game negotiations, trusted friendships or fixing the rules to have a chance to have some fun. Really I'd make anything work with all that.
That's what good ruleset is for, to avoid all the bs.
You'll likely get a different answer asking different people what 'WAAC' means to them.
For me, WAAC are those guys who put 'winning' above everything else - including putting it above having fun.
Those guys -know- who they are, generally, and yeah, they hate the label - because it -fits-. Most of them will deny it, but - watching them play a game, and it becomes quite obvious.
Those same guys will say, 'Well, WAAC is my way of having fun!' which just proves the point, really.
Why would your opponent playing to win stop you from having fun? Does loosing ruin your fun? Sounds like waac heh.
I'd say my opponent being a "waac" is a requirement for a fun game where fun is a test of one's mind performed in a game set in cool universe with beautiful game pieces. Win itself is secondary but playing hard to win is crucial.
It sonds like a set of some vague arbitrary rules with a purpose of bringing the better player down instead of improving your tactics or your list where in fact you should be happy if your game is deep enough to let you do the former and very unhappy (about the rules not the players) if your game makes the latter impossible without taking a handful of visibly op units or combinations.
Like I said - those guys know who they are. They're the dbags that piss and moan about every bad roll, take the cheesiest units/formations and load up on them as much as possible. They often bend/twist rules, argue anything not cast in stone, and are generally terrible players to play against. TFG is usually a WAAC player.
Losing most certainly does not ruin my fun - at least I hope not, since I probably lose about 55-60% of the games I play. But losing sure does ruin WAAC guy's fun, as you can tell by the quiet awkwardness as he makes up his excuses while he's packing his cheddar back into his minis case.
The definition of WAAC guy -is- arbitrary - I said pretty much that very thing in my description. It varies from person to person. For some, a WAAC guy is just someone who cheats. If you're willing to break the rules just to win, well, you're a WAAC punk. For others, it means something a bit different.
For me, WAAC guy puts winning above having fun. Cheating doesn't make the game fun for your opponent. Whining, pouting, and crying during the game (especially when things aren't going your way) doesn't make it fun for your opponent. Doing your best to table your opponent on turn two -probably- doesn't make the game fun for your opponent. WAAC guy sees the game as an event solely for -his- enjoyment and entertainment, and if his opponent has fun or not is pretty much irrelevant to him.
