I'm well behind on rumours. But there are pics on 4chan of skaven being packed with both round and square bases and a card with the miniature's Stal line. It could always be fake of course.
Ozymandias wrote: I think we can all agree that no one is going to force you to rebase all your models. As daft as GW has been lately, they aren't that daft.
Beastmen players (all like, 5 of us) had to rebase Ungors twice I think? I mean, certainly not on the scale of rebasing entire armies, but it's not like GW isn't willing to futz with base sizes.
Howard A Treesong wrote: I'm well behind on rumours. But there are pics on 4chan of skaven being packed with both round and square bases and a card with the miniature's Stal line. It could always be fake of course.
It could also just be a mispack.
I'm fairly sure that the Grey Seer did come with its statline in the blister, but most of the End Times stuff did so that is not really a huge sign of things to come.
Ozymandias wrote: I think we can all agree that no one is going to force you to rebase all your models. As daft as GW has been lately, they aren't that daft.
Beastmen players (all like, 5 of us) had to rebase Ungors twice I think? I mean, certainly not on the scale of rebasing entire armies, but it's not like GW isn't willing to futz with base sizes.
I'm kinda glad I put my beastmen on hold until the new WHFB comes out lol
More and more picture are popping up with round bases. My guess would be different bases for different game modes? Were Mordheim models on square or round bases? I never played.
streamdragon wrote: More and more picture are popping up with round bases. My guess would be different bases for different game modes? Were Mordheim models on square or round bases? I never played.
Howard A Treesong wrote: I'm well behind on rumours. But there are pics on 4chan of skaven being packed with both round and square bases and a card with the miniature's Stal line. It could always be fake of course.
This pic is from warhammer world. There were ALOT of armies on display, with combination bases. There is really no denying it anymore.
Azreal13 wrote:If the small scale game is genuine, and playable, Ich bin ein fantasy player. For the first time since about 2001.
Accolade wrote:Yeah, I admit this could pan out to be something I would personally be interested in. We shall see!
Thirded.
With the caveat that it needs to be a genuinely new ruleset, not just a half-assed adaptation of the WFB framework like RoR is. Some things (both sides striking in one combat, initiative steps, fleeing/overrunning, combat resolution) are fine for mass battles, but make little sense in the context of mano-a-mano fights. Similarly, I want magic to be represented in toned down form, not just done away with like RoR does.
The problem is that this concept would require not only 2 rulesets, but also two completely different stat sets, and I'm not sure GW would do that (even though it's relatively simple).
If this comes true then great, I'm in, and probably in deep! If not, then I'll see about putting together a mod for the tried and true LotR system.
In my local GW some of the regulars seemed mostly bummed out by the 9th rumors. Shame because I am all excited for them! The only thing that's crucial to me is IF they are introducing circle bases for skirmish I hope circle bases are also compatible for mass battles (i.e. Movement trays with slots)
Kirasu wrote: Round bases are better for almost all purposes anyway than square. You just need to make your own movement trays. Take demons for example, you should always base demons using round bases so you can use them in 40k.
Round bases allow for easier ranking as well. Should have gotten rid of round bases a long time ago and simply switch to WOTR style movement trays.
I disagree that round bases are better. They are terrible for ranking up. I do know what you mean about ranking with the War of the Ring movement trays but it means that units are wider with less models.
I just like to have hordes upon hordes of ratmen everywhere on the table...yes I play skaven and I'm not rebasing lol
On topic with the new edition I am stoked to hear some more stuff because I am really hoping for this new edition soon and hoping for a new box set. I've acquired enough skaven slaves from island of blood to be satisfied but maybe I'm going to have to pick up another 80 iob clanrats/slaves before the new edition.
I would like some sort of skirmish game for fantasy though I think that it would be fun to have a more thematic version of fantasy with a narrative. We could do it now with current rules but new rules can be fun too
I hope the WHFB skirmish rules are good, and aren't just "Fantesy Kill Team". Something more like a updated Mordhiem.
Kill Team is fun, but the lack of customization and flushing out of the idea realy hold it back from being considered a "real skirmish game" that most people have been craving GW to do agien.
I personally would rather see Dwarfs, Humans, Skavan, and Lizardmen all stay separate armies, but the truth is that these armies will be seeing themselves get rolled into each other and others to make 6 armies work. So the 6 factions leaves me apprehensive.
This would be my guess. Skaven worship chaos in all but name, with Vermin Lords and such actually being Demons. Humans+Dwarves allies the Good tech-based factions in one place (and perhaps a place for the new Good Human faction), All The Elves makes sense, as does Undead United. Lizards are too unique to see anywhere else, but I could almost see a big them getting some expansion like the WE nature stuff.
I also expect heavy levels of allying to be available, with all Good and all Evil factions being able to mix pretty much freely.
Lockark wrote: I hope the WHFB skirmish rules are good, and aren't just "Fantesy Kill Team". Something more like a updated Mordhiem.
Kill Team is fun, but the lack of customization and flushing out of the idea realy hold it back from being considered a "real skirmish game" that most people have been craving GW to do agien.
Lockark wrote:I personally would rather see Dwarfs, Humans, Skavan, and Lizardmen all stay separate armies, but the truth is that these armies will be seeing themselves get rolled into each other and others to make 6 armies work. So the 6 factions leaves me apprehensive.
You mean like how the Space Marines are now in the Imperial Guard book for 40k?
Six "factions" does not necessarily mean 6 armies.
This would be my guess. Skaven worship chaos in all but name, with Vermin Lords and such actually being Demons. Humans+Dwarves allies the Good tech-based factions in one place (and perhaps a place for the new Good Human faction), All The Elves makes sense, as does Undead United. Lizards are too unique to see anywhere else, but I could almost see a big them getting some expansion like the WE nature stuff.
I also expect heavy levels of allying to be available, with all Good and all Evil factions being able to mix pretty much freely.
I think they could mix the Lizardmen and Elfs together for two reasons.
The 1st is that their is president in the 40k exodites who ride dinosaurs. The 2nd is because they are the two good guy magic factions. The same way you might combine Dwarfs and Humans because they are the two good guy techy factions.
Their is also the bit of fluff in the endtimes that the capitol of skavenblight escaped in a pocket bubble or something.
Lockark wrote: I hope the WHFB skirmish rules are good, and aren't just "Fantesy Kill Team". Something more like a updated Mordhiem.
Kill Team is fun, but the lack of customization and flushing out of the idea realy hold it back from being considered a "real skirmish game" that most people have been craving GW to do agien.
Don't all thank me at once , but I called this one weeks ago. Check my post history if you can be bothered trawling through all that.
I said that a 6 faction, small skirmish game, added to GW's ethos of making painting easier (base, shade, highlight) was their model to get Teenagers playing the game.
Don't expect any of the old factions to make an appearance in their current form. If you're launching something new, you want to be making cash fast, so that means new factions that nobody has = money for GW.
Sure, it's short sighted, but this tallies with GW's business model these last 10 years.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Don't all thank me at once , but I called this one weeks ago. Check my post history if you can be bothered trawling through all that.
I said that a 6 faction, small skirmish game, added to GW's ethos of making painting easier (base, shade, highlight) was their model to get Teenagers playing the game.
Don't expect any of the old factions to make an appearance in their current form. If you're launching something new, you want to be making cash fast, so that means new factions that nobody has = money for GW.
Sure, it's short sighted, but this tallies with GW's business model these last 10 years.
It's still just a rumour, bit early for 'I told you so'.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Don't all thank me at once , but I called this one weeks ago. Check my post history if you can be bothered trawling through all that.
I said that a 6 faction, small skirmish game, added to GW's ethos of making painting easier (base, shade, highlight) was their model to get Teenagers playing the game.
Don't expect any of the old factions to make an appearance in their current form. If you're launching something new, you want to be making cash fast, so that means new factions that nobody has = money for GW.
Sure, it's short sighted, but this tallies with GW's business model these last 10 years.
It's still just a rumour, bit early for 'I told you so'.
I have faith in Dakka. If they say it's happening, that becomes Gospel.
So, full scale game uses square and skirmish uses round??
Can Skirmish use square though? Having two games that use the same models but on different bases seems like the stupidest idea ever.... Say im new and decide to start playing Warhammer, I start out small skirmish and base everything on round, but then as my army grows I want to play large scale.... am I screwed or am I re-basing? Im 100% fine on going all round and re-basing what I currently have but my OCD is not going to allow for a mix of round and square.
Bottle wrote: You guys must have sucky local GWs. In ours they talk about the rumors with the regulars, drop hints with things like when "red days" are.
The managers all get to go to some summer conference soon where they'll get to see the entire summer release early.
I think the reason is store managers can get in trouble for discussing rumors. GW likes to fashion themselves as Apple and, as such, they try to keep everything a secret until it's released. Once the managers know you well enough to know you won't put them at any risk, they seem to open up.
Chopxsticks wrote: So, full scale game uses square and skirmish uses round??
Can Skirmish use square though? Having two games that use the same models but on different bases seems like the stupidest idea ever.... Say im new and decide to start playing Warhammer, I start out small skirmish and base everything on round, but then as my army grows I want to play large scale.... am I screwed or am I re-basing? Im 100% fine on going all round and re-basing what I currently have but my OCD is not going to allow for a mix of round and square.
I'm hoping the mass battle will use circle bases like this:
Vulcan wrote: I'm hoping they don't, because that looks like a royal pain to make, and I REFUSE to buy movement trays from GW.
Alot of MDF companies already make movement trays like that. Sarissa Precision and Litko off the top of my head.
Exactly. I already bought slotted MDF trays for my skirmishers in 8th.
Plus if you don't like the slotted trays, you can just make a flat base of the same size and have all the miniatures on top "loose". I have seen lots of War Of The Ring armies take that approach too.
Yeah there are lots of options but visually circles on top of rectangles looks messy. Also a regiment of 50 gobbos based on circles will spread a lot and will take a lot more space on the table. If you ever tried spacing your wfb models on the table they will take at least double the area.
Vulcan wrote: I'm hoping they don't, because that looks like a royal pain to make, and I REFUSE to buy movement trays from GW.
Look at the back row of units. They are on movement trays rather than being them. The WotR rings specified sizes.
So you could buy the fancy trays (round bases in tray) or make your own. The GW were more time intensive to base. Making your own were easy.
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NAVARRO wrote: Yeah there are lots of options but visually circles on top of rectangles looks messy. Also a regiment of 50 gobbos based on circles will spread a lot and will take a lot more space on the table. If you ever tried spacing your wfb models on the table they will take at least double the area.
It will reduce model count and cost. This is not revolutionary as many historical games do not have model count requirements, just rules about formation base sizes.
WotR standardized BOTH model counts and formation base sizes because it used models to count wounds, which I suspect what WHF 9th will use. This still reduced the number of models need to create a formation. And for large or huge formations you aggregated those smaller standard formation sizes. It made life much simpler than how WHF does it now because you only had to build two movement tray sizes (one for infantry and one for cavalry).
I like that WotR approach with the round bases and square movement trays.
Considering some of the more dynamic poses of certain minis it's much more visually appealing to have them spread apart. Ghouls come to mind as being a royal pain to rank up properly if you didn't pay extra attention while building them.
barnacle111 wrote: So I may have missed this, but aside from aesthetics, what are the advantages of wfb using round bases??
[GW]
The lucky players will get to buy whole new armies to go on those round bases without all that terrible hassle of rebasing things or looking like a neckbeard with ugly out of fashion square bases. I mean, who wants to do that, when you can buy an awesome new army!
[/GW]
darkcloak wrote: plus I hear the used market for minis is going to exploOode!
Yeah, with everyone labelling their old plastic tat as 'pro painted' and wanting at least 75-80% of retail. (When the real retail should be at most 55-65%)
darkcloak wrote: plus I hear the used market for minis is going to exploOode!
Yeah, with everyone labelling their old plastic tat as 'pro painted' and wanting at least 75-80% of retail. (When the real retail should be at most 55-65%)
I loved War of the Ring, including the visual appeal. I'd be totally fine if GW did that for their 'skirmish' game (round bases) and 'mass battles' game (round based figs go on movement trays).
I do think the idea of more movement trays would help speed up games, too.
How many 40k Codex are there out there right now?? I am guessing around 20 of them.. I am sure once they get the main game out we will need new army book roll out like we see the 40k books. I am sure we will be neck deep in warhammer army books in no time..
Genoside07 wrote: How many 40k Codex are there out there right now?? I am guessing around 20 of them.. I am sure once they get the main game out we will need new army book roll out like we see the 40k books. I am sure we will be neck deep in warhammer army books in no time..
That is one of my main fears, can you imagine little updates like, Orcs and Goblins divided in themed armybooks, "Orcs" "Savage goblins", " night goblins" " orc bestiary" etc? That would be expensive but by the looks of it they are going for the 40k approach on WFB. ET was a big step in that direction with so many books released.
Its almost June and still little to no conclusive news about what is coming.
@Sheck2 yeah if they reduce the 50 model unit to half the large unit footprint will be a non issue, I need to rethink the way things are and start fresh I guess.
Genoside07 wrote: How many 40k Codex are there out there right now?? I am guessing around 20 of them.. I am sure once they get the main game out we will need new army book roll out like we see the 40k books. I am sure we will be neck deep in warhammer army books in no time..
That is one of my main fears, can you imagine little updates like, Orcs and Goblins divided in themed armybooks, "Orcs" "Savage goblins", " night goblins" " orc bestiary" etc? That would be expensive but by the looks of it they are going for the 40k approach on WFB. ET was a big step in that direction with so many books released.
Its almost June and still little to no conclusive news about what is coming.
@Sheck2 yeah if they reduce the 50 model unit to half the large unit footprint will be a non issue, I need to rethink the way things are and start fresh I guess.
Warhammer Army book: "Vampires" and Warhammer Army book: "Counts"
That just means you get to indulge in your favorite part of the hobby: buying more models from GW! You should be thankful they are giving you the opportunity to enjoy such a treat instead of using those crufty, mangy old models!
Despite not playing Fantasy, I'm looking forward to whatever GW is doing with the game. Fantasy needed a massive jolt in the arm, and with the rumors coming out there will certainly be some radical changes to the game. I just hope that they streamline the rules a bit and tone down the Magic phase; I have heard noting but complaints about how OP some spells and armies are at this aspect of the game.
Who knows, if 9th is really good, I might just turn into a square-baser...if those are still around
Genoside07 wrote: How many 40k Codex are there out there right now?? I am guessing around 20 of them.. I am sure once they get the main game out we will need new army book roll out like we see the 40k books. I am sure we will be neck deep in warhammer army books in no time..
I wouldn't bet on it. GW would only do that if Fantasy really starts making money. At least all the old armies are rumored to be playable in some form.
As a general question, how different from 8th edition Fantasy do people think that the new game will be? (Side question: how many ideas will be blatantly stolen from Kings of War?)
TheNewBlood wrote: Despite not playing Fantasy, I'm looking forward to whatever GW is doing with the game. Fantasy needed a massive jolt in the arm, and with the rumors coming out there will certainly be some radical changes to the game. I just hope that they streamline the rules a bit and tone down the Magic phase; I have heard noting but complaints about how OP some spells and armies are at this aspect of the game.
The core game rules updates in End Times did exactly the opposite and looking at how 7th ed 40k turned out I'd say this is definitely the direction GW have been taking their rules for a while now.
TheNewBlood wrote: Despite not playing Fantasy, I'm looking forward to whatever GW is doing with the game. Fantasy needed a massive jolt in the arm, and with the rumors coming out there will certainly be some radical changes to the game. I just hope that they streamline the rules a bit and tone down the Magic phase; I have heard noting but complaints about how OP some spells and armies are at this aspect of the game.
The core game rules updates in End Times did exactly the opposite and looking at how 7th ed 40k turned out I'd say this is definitely the direction GW have been taking their rules for a while now.
Then again, Fantasy End Times didn't exactly sell like hotcakes. Who knows? Certainly not anyone in this thread.
It always bugs me about how GW handles their hype. We hear nothing but unconfirmed rumors, and then suddenly the new product is upon us. One would think that GW would be putting more hype behind their reboot of one of their core IP and game systems!
TheNewBlood wrote: Despite not playing Fantasy, I'm looking forward to whatever GW is doing with the game. Fantasy needed a massive jolt in the arm, and with the rumors coming out there will certainly be some radical changes to the game. I just hope that they streamline the rules a bit and tone down the Magic phase; I have heard noting but complaints about how OP some spells and armies are at this aspect of the game.
The core game rules updates in End Times did exactly the opposite and looking at how 7th ed 40k turned out I'd say this is definitely the direction GW have been taking their rules for a while now.
Then again, Fantasy End Times didn't exactly sell like hotcakes. Who knows? Certainly not anyone in this thread.
It always bugs me about how GW handles their hype. We hear nothing but unconfirmed rumors, and then suddenly the new product is upon us. One would think that GW would be putting more hype behind their reboot of one of their core IP and game systems!
Not only that but the average income client does not consider 75£ or something similar for a new starter as an impulse buy. People need to plan ahead and in a world of no news they will spend it on other games or Kickstarters.
So yes no news = no sales. Its like GW is reducing their client interest on purpose, probably they dont want to sell much, makes sense since sales are going so well.
I would bet nothing... the photos a few pages back show that the Lizardmen have been transferred to round bases - a good indication that they will be used in the new edition in some way shape or form.
I would bet nothing... the photos a few pages back show that the Lizardmen have been transferred to round bases - a good indication that they will be used in the new edition in some way shape or form.
I legit don't know how they are gonna do this 6 split then.
At first I thought:
Chaos - Woc, Beastmen, Demons
"Man" - Empire, Brets, Dwarves
Greenskins - O&G, Ogres?
Skaven - always popular, one of GW's "unique" race
Elves - already seeing signs of this one
Undead - aka Nagash based
I guess Skaven could go with Chaos or Greenskins.. But I can't see Lizardmen really teaming up with anyone. Their like lawful good or something and seeing Lizards with Elves or Man is.. strange.
It's also possible that the six factions rumour is nonsense. Some exiting armies may get streamlined (Elves, Undead), but they may just leave others more or less as they are.
In the End Times, Lizardmen got out of Dodge before the big explosion, but this surely doesn't preclude them coming back.
Flashman wrote: It's also possible that the six factions rumour is nonsense. Some exiting armies may get streamlined (Elves, Undead), but they may just leave others more or less as they are.
In the End Times, Lizardmen got out of Dodge before the big explosion, but this surely doesn't preclude them coming back.
i have heard it will be 4
order-elves, men, dwarves, lizards
disorder-skaven, o&g, ogres
Chaos-woc, beastmen, demons
Undead- tk and vc
Flashman wrote: It's also possible that the six factions rumour is nonsense. Some exiting armies may get streamlined (Elves, Undead), but they may just leave others more or less as they are.
That is possible. However, consider what we know:
1) GW had a bit of a rude awakening to reality in their court case against Chapterhouse on the subject of the defensibility of some of their products as unique IP.
2) A lot of Warhammer Fantasy's existing design is derivative of other fantasy
3) Warhammer Fantasy's sales have been tanking.
It seems awfully coincidental that GW carried out the end times plot with the promise of cataclysmic change for the game setting considering the above. This is the same GW that is happy having a new edition being a slight rules polish with no plot advancement.
It also seems hugely coincidental that the armies that have either been shown in court to not be unique (lizardmen) or are clearly derivative from history or fantasy (empire, dwarfs, all flavours of Elves) are some of those rumoured to be facing major overhauls.
I suspect that what we will see is not a clear cut elimination of those existing armies, but rather a severance of any support for them. They will be deemed playable in the new edition, but when their next army book comes out, they will see drastic changes to their makeup and theme.
The six factions thing is odd because it goes against what GW has done with 40k which has been to make more and more factions (and to break existing factions into multiple books).
Now, obviously they could be trying a totally different approach to WHFB. But if we were to speculate from 40k it seems likely that the "six factions" may just be a way of making allies much more an integral part of Fantasy, and we can still expect a multitude of different books for each race, but under a wider banner (such as Warhammer Armies: Order - Army Book Empire).
Bottle wrote: The six factions thing is odd because it goes against what GW has done with 40k which has been to make more and more factions (and to break existing factions into multiple books).
Now, obviously they could be trying a totally different approach to WHFB. But if we were to speculate from 40k it seems likely that the "six factions" may just be a way of making allies much more an integral part of Fantasy, and we can still expect a multitude of different books for each race, but under a wider banner (such as Warhammer Armies: Order - Army Book Empire).
It kinda falls inline with what gw is doing with 40kIMO. The "general" books leave openings to lots of cult books. Cult of slanessh, savage orc warhost, empire knightly orders, chaos warbands, etc. There is plenty of room to make sub or ancellary armybooks
I'm thinking.....a dangerous process in and of itself!....that since we don't have a squats chance in hell of getting information from GW about the next edition of Warhammer Fantasy, that I'm just going to make a make a guess and go with that. There are 'rumors' all over the various gaming sites, but no solid info of any sort.
I'm guessing the next version warhammer comes out June 20th, 2015. Lets go with that.
So let it be written, so let it be done!!!!
We will be up late on Friday night at the Swarthmore store with food and refreshments, and spend a few hours switching models to round bases (if that's true?). Have some fun, read the new rules, goof off, maybe try a game.
Sunday June 21st we'll hold the first 9th edition tournament. And yes, you'll need your own copy of the game to play in the tournament. It will be amusing enough to play with barely any rules knowledge. Having people who don't even own the book and havent read it at all would be silly.
No cost for the tournament. No real requirements on painting or modeling other than no stupid proxies, or hideous clay sculptures. If you don't have the model, you don't proxie something for it.
If they have both Skirmish and large game rules, we'll play the new skirmish version.
We'll play two rounds, try for three rounds if it goes well. Winners vs winners, but prizes will be random and provided by the store.
No entry fee. Free food. Free prizes. No whining.
No, really, i'm guessing this time. I've begged GW for info. Best i got was "well, probably we'll have WFB this mid summer...maybe". More info as we beat it out of them.
No cost for the tournament. No real requirements on painting or modeling other than no stupid proxies, or hideous clay sculptures.
Why you gotta be so hard on Dina Walker's Ice Age Mammal kickstarter classics? Who survived an Ice Age, Kickstarter, and the End TImes only to be cruelly shut down by Mikhalia??
Well, they don't, actually. If they could get away with it, I'm sure they'd be the only ones allowed to sell their products. It seems that having to deal with third-party retailers and cut them in on a share of the profits is something they'd prefer not to do.
I am interested in what GW might do with 9th, however I honestly doubt i will continue playing 9th and remain with 8th. Newer is not always better, however it should be given a chance to be seen what they come up with before i know how i will choose to play WFB in the future.
Bottle wrote: The six factions thing is odd because it goes against what GW has done with 40k which has been to make more and more factions (and to break existing factions into multiple books).
Now, obviously they could be trying a totally different approach to WHFB. But if we were to speculate from 40k it seems likely that the "six factions" may just be a way of making allies much more an integral part of Fantasy, and we can still expect a multitude of different books for each race, but under a wider banner (such as Warhammer Armies: Order - Army Book Empire).
6 factions doesn't necessarily mean 6 books. How many Imperial books are there for 40K? They might just provide a 'Man' army book with expansions for 14 Dwarf clans, and so on.
Bottle wrote: The six factions thing is odd because it goes against what GW has done with 40k which has been to make more and more factions (and to break existing factions into multiple books).
Now, obviously they could be trying a totally different approach to WHFB. But if we were to speculate from 40k it seems likely that the "six factions" may just be a way of making allies much more an integral part of Fantasy, and we can still expect a multitude of different books for each race, but under a wider banner (such as Warhammer Armies: Order - Army Book Empire).
6 factions doesn't necessarily mean 6 books. How many Imperial books are there for 40K? They might just provide a 'Man' army book with expansions for 14 Dwarf clans, and so on.
Bottle wrote: The six factions thing is odd because it goes against what GW has done with 40k which has been to make more and more factions (and to break existing factions into multiple books).
Now, obviously they could be trying a totally different approach to WHFB. But if we were to speculate from 40k it seems likely that the "six factions" may just be a way of making allies much more an integral part of Fantasy, and we can still expect a multitude of different books for each race, but under a wider banner (such as Warhammer Armies: Order - Army Book Empire).
6 factions doesn't necessarily mean 6 books. How many Imperial books are there for 40K? They might just provide a 'Man' army book with expansions for 14 Dwarf clans, and so on.
I'm pretty sure it's going to be at least five books on the Fantasy marines, four of which will be based around kitschy themes like dressing them as vampires or Vikings. Obviously very deserving of their own, repetiti-I mean, narrative-forging style.
No cost for the tournament. No real requirements on painting or modeling other than no stupid proxies, or hideous clay sculptures.
Why you gotta be so hard on Dina Walker's Ice Age Mammal kickstarter classics? Who survived an Ice Age, Kickstarter, and the End TImes only to be cruelly shut down by Mikhalia??
I did! RWWWAAAR!
Lol, that is actually much better than what i've seen at times
One guy was making figures of demons out of some sculpty stuff he had to back in the over . Another guy showed up to a local 40k tournament with a Eldar Revanant Titan, made out of clay and sticks. Truly horrible.
Another guy showed up to a local 40k tournament with a Eldar Revanant Titan, made out of clay and sticks. Truly horrible.
Sounds like a perfectly legal Exodite Titan to me.
Add some tanks with legs sticking out the bottom Fred Flintstone-style...
On topic, a possible skirmish game does sound quite appealing (speaking as someone who was put off WHFB by the cost of assembling a decent sized army), especially if they include some kind of campaign/experience system.
I am of the same thought. Blocks of infantry and monsters can look very impressive, however I'm not really a person to assemble all of those models, never mind painting them to reasonable level. A low point level game that could be played with few purchases would be wonderful.
Seriously. The amount of times I pop into these 9E threads, see all the praise for skirmish WHFB and the disdain for mass battle WHFB, and then furiously roll my eyes with the fury of a thousand furious suns is getting to be a little ridiculous. If you people don't want Mass Battles in a Fantasy-ish Setting, then there are plenty of Small-scale Skirmish in a Fantasy-ish Setting games already on the market, with better rules than GeeDub could possibly come up with and nigh infinitely better community support. And you could even use your pretty Citadel minis over there too, through the magic of Counts As modeling! On the other hand, if you'd rather stay in the GW fold and have an aversion to building dozens of models, Mordheim is still a great game that, again, you could be playing right now - my club, for example, is starting up yet another league in June as we wait to see if we're still playing 8E for the foreseeable future.
Point being, if it's Small-scale Skirmish in a Fantasy-ish Setting that you want, you already have many options at hand, with quality of rules that run the gammut but are likely all as good as what GW may or may not offer up. If the thing keeping you from the last, what, eight editions of WHFB is that it's been a Mass Battle in a Fantasy-ish Setting game, then I hate to say it, but it might not be the game for you!
I think the problem for a lot of people, Salvage, is that they can't fathom going outside of the GW when it comes to games. And I also have a feeling that a lot of them posting here are 40k players who want to add in a bit of their Hobby Maker's other big game, but don't want to go so far as buying a whole army for it.
Personally, I think the last few editions just dialed it up a little too far and were they to rewind to a game about, let's say, 3/4th the size (and address gripes of 8th), things would be fine.
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Lockark wrote: I think a lot of us are interested in the idea that you get mass battle and skirmish rules in one book.
Boss Salvage wrote:Seriously. The amount of times I pop into these 9E threads, see all the praise for skirmish WHFB and the disdain for mass battle WHFB, and then furiously roll my eyes with the fury of a thousand furious suns is getting to be a little ridiculous. If you people don't want Mass Battles in a Fantasy-ish Setting, then there are plenty of Small-scale Skirmish in a Fantasy-ish Setting games already on the market, with better rules than GeeDub could possibly come up with and nigh infinitely better community support. And you could even use your pretty Citadel minis over there too, through the magic of Counts As modeling! On the other hand, if you'd rather stay in the GW fold and have an aversion to building dozens of models, Mordheim is still a great game that, again, you could be playing right now - my club, for example, is starting up yet another league in June as we wait to see if we're still playing 8E for the foreseeable future.
I like you. Have an exalt.
Lockark wrote:I think a lot of us are interested in the idea that you get mass battle and skirmish rules in one book.
... which hopefully won't be the same rules with slightly different organisational charts that cause them to chafe, strain and creak, with some people trying to convince other people that they're 'universal' and 'scalable' when they're not.
I'm hoping it's just the movement, to hit, wound, and other core mechanics that are shared. With then a clear set of rules for mass battles and a character skirmish game Like the old mordhiem game. Anything else will be a gong show.
Personally I'm hoping for more of a regression in unit size back to the ~5th edition-ish days. Where a box set provided a unit that could actually make a tactical difference in the battle. Back when if you saw 30 dudes in a block it was probably just goblins or slaves. Back when most of your models on the table didn't feel so much like worthless wound counters.
Seriously. The amount of times I pop into these 9E threads, see all the praise for skirmish WHFB and the disdain for mass battle WHFB, and then furiously roll my eyes with the fury of a thousand furious suns is getting to be a little ridiculous. If you people don't want Mass Battles in a Fantasy-ish Setting, then there are plenty of Small-scale Skirmish in a Fantasy-ish Setting games already on the market, with better rules than GeeDub could possibly come up with and nigh infinitely better community support. And you could even use your pretty Citadel minis over there too, through the magic of Counts As modeling! On the other hand, if you'd rather stay in the GW fold and have an aversion to building dozens of models, Mordheim is still a great game that, again, you could be playing right now - my club, for example, is starting up yet another league in June as we wait to see if we're still playing 8E for the foreseeable future.
Point being, if it's Small-scale Skirmish in a Fantasy-ish Setting that you want, you already have many options at hand, with quality of rules that run the gammut but are likely all as good as what GW may or may not offer up. If the thing keeping you from the last, what, eight editions of WHFB is that it's been a Mass Battle in a Fantasy-ish Setting game, then I hate to say it, but it might not be the game for you!
- Salvage
Is there really something so terribly wrong with hoping that we get -both-? After all, with the prices we pay for their product, I think it makes sense to get two games for the price of one.
Though, seriously - some days you feel like a nut... some days you don't. If I don't own Mordheim and don't wanna shell out the $ for it, but the new fantasy edition comes with a skirmish version AND a mass-battles version in one book - why would that get anyone's panties in a bunch?
I have only played Mordheim a few times (many moons ago), and as I recall it's focused around ~10-12 models. Maybe Fb-skirmish/fast play would work better for 20-30 figs? Maybe they're introducing some new mechanic that might be more interesting than the aged Mordheim mechanic?
Sorry to hear that this topic really causes you to roll your eyes with the fury of a thousand furious suns, though. Sounds painful.
wana10 wrote: Personally I'm hoping for more of a regression in unit size back to the ~5th edition-ish days. Where a box set provided a unit that could actually make a tactical difference in the battle. Back when if you saw 30 dudes in a block it was probably just goblins or slaves. Back when most of your models on the table didn't feel so much like worthless wound counters.
This.
2,000 points being an interesting army, with tactical variety and not just huge blocks of wounds counters.
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/05/wfb-9th-new-edition-overview.html wrote:Unbound will exist, as will bound lists, basically what he told me is that it´s what the public wants...
WHO?!? I have NEVER heard a fantasy player ever utter the phrase "Boy this game would be better if we removed force org restrictions!"
WHO?!? I have NEVER heard a fantasy player ever utter the phrase "Boy this game would be better if we removed force org restrictions!"
I have also NEVER heard a fantasy/40K player ever utter the phrase "Boy this on-BoLS-first-rumour was totally spot on and indicative of what came out later".
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/05/wfb-9th-new-edition-overview.html wrote:Unbound will exist, as will bound lists, basically what he told me is that it´s what the public wants...
WHO?!? I have NEVER heard a fantasy player ever utter the phrase "Boy this game would be better if we removed force org restrictions!"
A "fantasy player" or a "dedicated fan of Games Workshop's highly acclaimed Warhammer: The Bubbleverse 2: Electric Boogaloo(TM) high quality collector's miniatures mass skirmish game"
But how would they know, market research os for losers, I thought.
Regarding the new “Age of Sigmar” product for WFB 9th:
ladys and gentlemen
i confirm the upcoming release of Age of Sigmar
That image indicates a product page for “Age of Sigmar” exists on the GW website, but is currently not redirecting to another placeholder page until it is used.
so we have a name, but whether it's the main 9th box set, the skirmish thing or some other wonder/distaster we wait to see
Regarding the new “Age of Sigmar” product for WFB 9th:
ladys and gentlemen
i confirm the upcoming release of Age of Sigmar
That image indicates a product page for “Age of Sigmar” exists on the GW website, but is currently not redirecting to another placeholder page until it is used.
so we have a name, but whether it's the main 9th box set, the skirmish thing or some other wonder/distaster we wait to see
I just had one of those weird random thoughts; what if we find out that the reason Siggy and a few others apparently survived the End Times is they're actually the Old Ones and the Warhammer World is stuck in some perpetual closed timeloop where the method of its destruction provides the people and power for its own creation?
We already know from the end of EoT that the warhammer world probably has a cyclical story of destruction and creation. We also know that there's more than one world, so I guess it's not exactly the same story over and over, but every time it's a new world with different characters. Ironically, the only constant thing is Chaos. Boom, paradox, the four gods implode.
The two concepts are not related. GW's fictional universes use the latter.
Greek χάος (Chaos) means "emptiness, vast void, chasm, abyss", from the verb χαίνω, "gape, be wide open, etc.", from Proto-Indo-European *ǵheh2n,[2] cognate to Old English geanian, "to gape", whence English yawn.[3] It may also mean space, the expanse of air, and the nether abyss, infinite darkness.
...
Use of chaos in the derived sense of "complete disorder or confusion" first appears in Elizabethan Early Modern English, originally implying satirical exaggeration
Nothing is stopping GW from adding additional factions back to Fantasy. The six factions thing may just be six factions at the release of the new edition.
WHO?!? I have NEVER heard a fantasy player ever utter the phrase "Boy this game would be better if we removed force org restrictions!"
I have also NEVER heard a fantasy/40K player ever utter the phrase "Boy this on-BoLS-first-rumour was totally spot on and indicative of what came out later".
Doesn't matter. They shovelled the same BS for 40k in White Dwarf when they released this edition to peddle the new lack of balance as a fan request to play every fig they ever owned together... instead of the obvious desire to sell every fig GW ever made to every player. I don't recall any players wanting every single game of 40k to be turned into apocalypse yet it happened. :(
Regarding the new “Age of Sigmar” product for WFB 9th:
ladys and gentlemen
i confirm the upcoming release of Age of Sigmar
That image indicates a product page for “Age of Sigmar” exists on the GW website, but is currently not redirecting to another placeholder page until it is used.
so we have a name, but whether it's the main 9th box set, the skirmish thing or some other wonder/distaster we wait to see
Age of Legends /Age of Sigmar - really like the stories and characters so that's a positive.
Can field a Human/Dwarf/Vampire Alliance - short lived in the lore but effective in battle
Mort wrote:Is there really something so terribly wrong with hoping that we get -both-? After all, with the prices we pay for their product, I think it makes sense to get two games for the price of one.
Frankly, I think you're all wishlisting a bit if you think that 9E will be both a skirmish game and a mass battle game. The best 'support' I can come up with for this is if War of the Rings - with its round bases, its unit trays, and its relation to the skirmish-y Lord of the Rings - is being used as the model for 9E. Which we don't have much evidence for, except that they're being made by the same company and round bases are one of only two really consistent rumors we've gotten for 9E (the other being limited initial factions).
Though, seriously - some days you feel like a nut... some days you don't. If I don't own Mordheim and don't wanna shell out the $ for it, but the new fantasy edition comes with a skirmish version AND a mass-battles version in one book - why would that get anyone's panties in a bunch?
My own panties get bunched up by all the folks (the vast majority of whom do not currently play 8E) clamoring for a move away from mass battles and towards skirmish for WHFB. Glance through this thread and you'll find a startling number of them. Now peeps are posting more sane things like simply scaling the mass battle of 8E down to a slightly-less-mass battle of 9E. Like Accolade, who I wanted to give a general shout out to anyway:
Accolade wrote:Personally, I think the last few editions just dialed it up a little too far and were they to rewind to a game about, let's say, 3/4th the size (and address gripes of 8th), things would be fine.
And by 'sane' I mean 'more in touch with what WHFB has been about for decades' (as in, not a handful of things skirmishing hither and thither).
As for Mordheim, you know all the rules are entirely free, right? GeeDub has nothing to sell you, the Internet has taken it all back. All you need are a couple handfuls of whatever freewheeling modeling you fancy - which includes putting all of one of those shiny ten model 'unit' boxes to work
Mort wrote:Maybe they're introducing some new mechanic that might be more interesting than the aged Mordheim mechanic?
Though as for Mordheim, I do agree that the actual mechanics leave something to be desired. 6E was not my favorite edition of WHFB, and actually the one that I left for 3E 40k until 7E hit
wana10 wrote:Personally I'm hoping for more of a regression in unit size back to the ~5th edition-ish days. Where a box set provided a unit that could actually make a tactical difference in the battle. Back when if you saw 30 dudes in a block it was probably just goblins or slaves. Back when most of your models on the table didn't feel so much like worthless wound counters.
I've said it before, but the current late meta for 8E really doesn't have all that many models in each army, particularly massed infantry. The game is about characters + monstrous cav + monsters + cav + artillery, with maybe monstrous infantry in the right army / unit. I get what you're saying, but despite the buffs given to infantry by 8E, the armybooks, particularly in the last two years, have skewed things quite a bit. For better or worse I suppose. My real gripe about 8E armies are deathstar builds, which are distressingly supported by the rules (largely due to VP scoring). Will 9E solve the issue of your opponent stuffing all his/her characters into one uber-unit and forcing the game to revolve around this single blob? Skirmish would solve the issue ... but is like the scorched earth solution for me, because I'd be playing something else.
Ya'll keep talking about dialing things back from 8E, which has me thinking about 7E, an edition I enjoyed but nothing close to as much as I have 8E. In 6E, chain panics made me go play another game. In 7E, my units really felt like so many wound counters, with just the front rank able to do anything at all, and only after waiting for killier things to leave some of them around to swing. In 8E, units suddenly could do real work, thanks to step-up. I got to roll more dice, I got to kill things with all these dudes I'd built, etc. I'm pretty sure folks complaining about unit bloat are griping about steadfast - you don't hear me complaining about unit size, because on the flip side, step-up gave my units a purpose beyond taking up space, escorting characters and dying.
Long post, but related parable from 7E and why it was fethed. One time while playing DE (maybe the best 7E book) with my OK (maybe the worst 7E army), an assassin charged into a bull unit and killed the two ogres he was in contact with, with total and reliable ease. Without steadfast, the four ogres left could never hope to hold; without step-up, they couldn't even squash the little T3 no save bugger. The lads were run down, and the assassin set up for his next charge (admittedly this took longer in 7E due to no free reform after combat). He charged another unit, killed two ogres, ran them down, set up. I realized that, given enough turns, this single model could kill my entire ogre army, due to the mechanics of the game. 8E dropped a couple months later.
Tl;dr - BS wrote a wall of text, is going to go be quiet and paint Mordheim for another week or so, barring real 9E developments.
Ya'll keep talking about dialing things back from 8E, which has me thinking about 7E, an edition I enjoyed but nothing close to as much as I have 8E. In 6E, chain panics made me go play another game. In 7E, my units really felt like so many wound counters, with just the front rank able to do anything at all, and only after waiting for killier things to leave some of them around to swing. In 8E, units suddenly could do real work, thanks to step-up. I got to roll more dice, I got to kill things with all these dudes I'd built, etc. I'm pretty sure folks complaining about unit bloat are griping about steadfast - you don't hear me complaining about unit size, because on the flip side, step-up gave my units a purpose beyond taking up space, escorting characters and dying.
Long post, but related parable from 7E and why it was fethed. One time while playing DE (maybe the best 7E book) with my OK (maybe the worst 7E army), an assassin charged into a bull unit and killed the two ogres he was in contact with, with total and reliable ease. Without steadfast, the four ogres left could never hope to hold; without step-up, they couldn't even squash the little T3 no save bugger. The lads were run down, and the assassin set up for his next charge (admittedly this took longer in 7E due to no free reform after combat). He charged another unit, killed two ogres, ran them down, set up. I realized that, given enough turns, this single model could kill my entire ogre army, due to the mechanics of the game. 8E dropped a couple months later.
Quoted For Truth and Exhalted. I've been exploring warmachine. Skirmish game featuring piece trading mechanics. 6th and 7th Ed warhammer felt like cumbersome, exceedingly expensive versions of the same. 8th actually feels like a clash between armies. I hope 9th does not deviate too far from 8th, while reigning in the deathstars a bit and making basic troops a bit more useful.
8th did a lot of things right. It also got a few things wrong. The RULES aren't what is actually hurting Fantasy to much from what I've seen locally. Cost is the killer locally. That and the amount of painting you're looking at if you run any kind of infantry unit. Average number of models painted for 40k tournament armies is probably 50. Some individual units in Fantasy are more models than entire 40k armies
Though, seriously - some days you feel like a nut... some days you don't. If I don't own Mordheim and don't wanna shell out the $ for it, but the new fantasy edition comes with a skirmish version AND a mass-battles version in one book - why would that get anyone's panties in a bunch?
My own panties get bunched up by all the folks (the vast majority of whom do not currently play 8E) clamoring for a move away from mass battles and towards skirmish for WHFB. Glance through this thread and you'll find a startling number of them. Now peeps are posting more sane things like simply scaling the mass battle of 8E down to a slightly-less-mass battle of 9E. Like Accolade, who I wanted to give a general shout out to anyway:
Accolade wrote:Personally, I think the last few editions just dialed it up a little too far and were they to rewind to a game about, let's say, 3/4th the size (and address gripes of 8th), things would be fine.
And by 'sane' I mean 'more in touch with what WHFB has been about for decades' (as in, not a handful of things skirmishing hither and thither).
Problem is I think the term 'skirmish' for games can be a bit vague. Sometimes it means a small gang skirmishing hither and thither, like Necromunda or Mordheim. Other times it means something less than Warhammer's couple of hundred models - a platoon's worth or two - occasionally on individual bases in a kind of cloud, running through and past and around eachother, rather than an infantry block. As far as I've seen, the rumours of 9th ed skirmish fall more in the latter circle of the gaming venn diagram; more in line with what you (Boss Salvage) and Accolade want, rather than gang skirmish. (I'm still not sure about it'll be all round bases or keeping unit blocks, or switching between the two. I don't think any of us know that, do we? In any case there are a couple of games out there that manage to combine the two in some fashion.)
As for Mordheim, you know all the rules are entirely free, right? GeeDub has nothing to sell you, the Internet has taken it all back. All you need are a couple handfuls of whatever freewheeling modeling you fancy - which includes putting all of one of those shiny ten model 'unit' boxes to work
Beat me to it! I was going to say that I can guarantee you definitely won't shell out as many '$' for Mordheim as you will for Warhammer 9th ed. I'll go so far as to say - before any number-crunching - that you could very likely take your pick of a number of excellent sets of fantasy skirmish and fantasy mass battle rules, one of each, including army lists or the means for army creation and selection, and still get a much better price (and better game) than wotever single book GW will offer you in a few weeks' time.
Heck, a lot of fantasy mass battle games are much better suited to mass battles than Warhammer ever was, but will still let you make use of those shiny ten model boxes for one unit, and fewer models overall.
Hulksmash wrote: 8th did a lot of things right. It also got a few things wrong. The RULES aren't what is actually hurting Fantasy to much from what I've seen locally. Cost is the killer locally. That and the amount of painting you're looking at if you run any kind of infantry unit. Average number of models painted for 40k tournament armies is probably 50. Some individual units in Fantasy are more models than entire 40k armies
The rules play no small part in the problems and decline of WHFB. But probably not in the way most people mean. A weakly balanced and out-of-touch ruleset will drive some people away, for sure. But the big part the 8th Edition rules play lies in the numbers required for the game. Even though the horde craze died down a bit over time, 8th edition, by design, pushed up the numbers quite a bit. Big blocks of infantry became much, MUCH better than in 7th and 6th. 8th buffed huge blocks of infantry by such a huge margin and nerfed traditional low-model pointsinks like chariots and monsters and made mass the new thing to go to. The suggested game size became 2500 to 3000 points, up from 2000 in addition to many choices becoming cheaper. 7th already pushed up the model count, but 8th pushed the boundaries even farther. Compare the model count of a usual army nowadays to 6th edition. My lizards had two (smaller!) blocks of saurus, two dozen of skinks, five chameleon skinks, two salamanders, a stegadon and a few heroes. The entire army had less models than some hordes nowadays! A stegadon and a slann ate up practically half of your points. Same thing goes for Empire, a Steam Tank or War Altar used to cost an enormous chunk of your army.
Now, I'm not saying that we should go back to the days of MSU, but the size creep is very much real.
Hulksmash wrote: 8th did a lot of things right. It also got a few things wrong. The RULES aren't what is actually hurting Fantasy to much from what I've seen locally. Cost is the killer locally. That and the amount of painting you're looking at if you run any kind of infantry unit. Average number of models painted for 40k tournament armies is probably 50. Some individual units in Fantasy are more models than entire 40k armies
That is like, your opinion man... I can't think of a single thing, rules wise that is better in 8th compared to 6th or 7th...
The rules were what killed Fantasy in my gaming group.
It literally went from 20+ people store tournaments with waiting cues, to tournaments being cancelled due to lack of participants in less than 6 months after 8th edition was released.
There was no time for the price shock to set in, because when GW decided to up the prices in the Fantasy range, no one was playing it already.
PhantomViper wrote: It literally went from 20+ people store tournaments with waiting cues, to tournaments being cancelled due to lack of participants in less than 6 months after 8th edition was released.
And on the flipside, tournaments in the NE USA have shown continued max attendance throughout the edition, even gaining in strength over the years. It's really only the soul suck of 9E's gloom and doom that's threatening the tournament scene up here, but even then 8E events are thundering on as scheduled.
PhantomViper wrote: It literally went from 20+ people store tournaments with waiting cues, to tournaments being cancelled due to lack of participants in less than 6 months after 8th edition was released.
And on the flipside, tournaments in the NE USA have shown continued max attendance throughout the edition, even gaining in strength over the years. It's really only the soul suck of 9E's gloom and doom that's threatening the tournament scene up here, but even then 8E events are thundering on as scheduled.
- Salvage
Do you have any numbers for that statement? Because all the things that I've seen show a decline in tournament attendance in the US as well as in Europe. That and Fantasy dropping off completely from IcV2's ranking and its declining percentage in GW's own sales numbers, seem to directly contradict you...
8th did a lot of things right. It also got a few things wrong. The RULES aren't what is actually hurting Fantasy to much from what I've seen locally. Cost is the killer locally. That and the amount of painting you're looking at if you run any kind of infantry unit. Average number of models painted for 40k tournament armies is probably 50. Some individual units in Fantasy are more models than entire 40k armies
That depends entirely on the armies you are comparing not the system.
Compare grey knights elite army in 40k to orcs and goblins horde army in fantasy and fantasy has the more figures
compare a tyranid swarm army in 40k to an ogre army in fantasy and 40k has far more figures
Hulksmash wrote: 8th did a lot of things right. It also got a few things wrong. The RULES aren't what is actually hurting Fantasy to much from what I've seen locally. Cost is the killer locally. That and the amount of painting you're looking at if you run any kind of infantry unit. Average number of models painted for 40k tournament armies is probably 50. Some individual units in Fantasy are more models than entire 40k armies
That is like, your opinion man... I can't think of a single thing, rules wise that is better in 8th compared to 6th or 7th...
Yep its all just opinion
8th had a lot of good things - premeasuring being a huge bonus - no more wasted time or people "working" out the distance thorugh various methods, best thing they ever did.
Step up was a very good thing
PhantomViper wrote: It literally went from 20+ people store tournaments with waiting cues, to tournaments being cancelled due to lack of participants in less than 6 months after 8th edition was released.
And on the flipside, tournaments in the NE USA have shown continued max attendance throughout the edition, even gaining in strength over the years. It's really only the soul suck of 9E's gloom and doom that's threatening the tournament scene up here, but even then 8E events are thundering on as scheduled.
- Salvage
Do you have any numbers for that statement? Because all the things that I've seen show a decline in tournament attendance in the US as well as in Europe. That and Fantasy dropping off completely from IcV2's ranking and its declining percentage in GW's own sales numbers, seem to directly contradict you...
Boss Salvage is entirely correct in saying that tournament WHFB, not just in the NE but the entire US, seems to be at a high right now for participation. Granted, the last 6-9 months of End Times rules jumbling and the looming 9th Ed has hurt numbers most recently, but aside from that, there are more tournaments throughout the US than there were at the beginning of 8th, with more people playing.
If you look at the MW, Adepticon two years ago was at or over 100 participants, this year it was a bit down but still in the 80s (ET rules flux caused a bit of a dip IMO). Waaghpaca is thriving at 100 entrants (IIRC) and numerous other tournaments are maxing out at what they are aiming for (BiTS, Northstar, and Buckeye Battles have similar numbers, with Screw City close to that as well). Plus, there are numerous new tournaments that are having very solid numbers for turnout for being new GTs (Holy Wars GT hit their max and had a wait list, Lady of the Lake GT is getting solid numbers even with it being in a more outlying area and the Windy City Showdown in Chicago this fall is up to 32 pre-registered, which is a great number for a new tournament). For proof to this, check out the Warscore website and you can see the list of tournaments that are using that to get an idea, as I would say maybe 25% of tournaments in the U.S. are using that (and that is probably a generous guess).
It seems like the UK is seeing similarly large interest in tournaments, with Southcoast getting around 170ish participants and many other tourneys selling out on a very consistent basis (from what I have heard on various UK podcasts).
GW's sales for Fantasy has no correlation to how healthy a tournament scene is. Most tournament players either have everything already and have for some time or are getting more into converting using different ranges and some bits from their previous GW purchases. Most people do it because they like the aesthetics of other models or want something that looks unique. Others just don't want to pay the price for GW or are frustrated with their practices. But, ever since GW got out of the tournament game, there is no longer any correlation between those two numbers.
PhantomViper wrote: Do you have any numbers for that statement? Because all the things that I've seen show a decline in tournament attendance in the US as well as in Europe. That and Fantasy dropping off completely from IcV2's ranking and its declining percentage in GW's own sales numbers, seem to directly contradict you...
Meh, I never claimed Fantasy was selling like crazy up here or you live in a sad anomalous pocket of Fantasy hate, just that the tournaments my clubmates and I go to seem to have shown pretty consistent attendance throughout 8E. Attendance numbers are surprisingly hard to dig up since Rankings HQ went down, but the tournament I've gone to throughout 8E, the Crossroads GT, saw the following:
2010 > 72 2011 > 68 2012 > 78 2013 > 102 2014 > 103 (+ ~80 in extra spring event) 2015 > ??? (+ 77 in extra spring event)
And consistently sold out within hours before moving to a larger venue. I'd love to toss up numbers for Conflict, Colonial and Carnage, but like I said, it's hard to find anything.
Long standing events in the US seem to do better than global tournament attendance suggests. I'm thinking of the various westcoast stuff, and those big tournies in the middle, from the Alamo to Brawler Bash and so on. Sure, it's the same 80-100 people in each region attending these things, but what more do you want for a thriving GT scene country-wide?
EDIT: HobbyBox has more deets, props for that!
If we want to contemplate dips in WHFB competitive play, we might keep in mind that - at least AFAIK - the system's real competition started to come to maturity during 8E. Warmachine: Prime Mk2 landed in January 2010, followed by Warhammer Fantasy Battles 8E in July 2010, Flames of War in March 2012, and so on.
One way we are trying to avoid people jumping ship to straight up KOW in our gaming group, in regards to the new edition of 9th edition, is running a special tournament where the palyers put up a percentage for paying for the rule book, with the rule book going to the winner. That way our group can at least get the book and look through it and learn over the next few months before we decide if we should invest in the starter sets. Most of group has agreed to participate in the tournament and with some excitement generated for it.
Hulksmash wrote: 8th did a lot of things right. It also got a few things wrong. The RULES aren't what is actually hurting Fantasy to much from what I've seen locally. Cost is the killer locally. That and the amount of painting you're looking at if you run any kind of infantry unit. Average number of models painted for 40k tournament armies is probably 50. Some individual units in Fantasy are more models than entire 40k armies
This. If they stick with the "well you have to spend about a grand to get the full game experience" rules, this will be the last edition, and the game will be dead. Nobody around here has started a new fantasy army in years. Even people picking up the end times books just dusted off some older armies they have. The newer chaos models, skaven models, and whatever else they have released have languised on the shelves, save for what can be used in 40k as well, or for conversions for 40k.
I'm thinking.....a dangerous process in and of itself!....that since we don't have a squats chance in hell of getting information from GW about the next edition of Warhammer Fantasy, that I'm just going to make a make a guess and go with that. There are 'rumors' all over the various gaming sites, but no solid info of any sort.
I'm guessing the next version warhammer comes out June 20th, 2015. Lets go with that.
So let it be written, so let it be done!!!!
We will be up late on Friday night at the Swarthmore store with food and refreshments, and spend a few hours switching models to round bases (if that's true?). Have some fun, read the new rules, goof off, maybe try a game.
Sunday June 21st we'll hold the first 9th edition tournament. And yes, you'll need your own copy of the game to play in the tournament. It will be amusing enough to play with barely any rules knowledge. Having people who don't even own the book and havent read it at all would be silly.
No cost for the tournament. No real requirements on painting or modeling other than no stupid proxies, or hideous clay sculptures. If you don't have the model, you don't proxie something for it.
If they have both Skirmish and large game rules, we'll play the new skirmish version.
We'll play two rounds, try for three rounds if it goes well. Winners vs winners, but prizes will be random and provided by the store.
No entry fee. Free food. Free prizes. No whining.
No, really, i'm guessing this time. I've begged GW for info. Best i got was "well, probably we'll have WFB this mid summer...maybe". More info as we beat it out of them.
We really want you to sell our stuff and we're stifling online sales and saying it's to support you BUT we're not going to say a damn thing until a week or two before we actually release anything so you have zero chance to do us a solid and drum up more sales for you and us.
Salvage, I see you're in Albany: do you play at Zombie Planet? Has the turnout been that good there? I grew up in Oneonta, an hour away, and for a small town we used to have 12-16 man tourneys in 6th and 7th edition. It went to 5 of us playing in my friend's basement during 8th, before I quit Warhammer. Then down to four. My friend tried to drum support back up, but better games have been stealing everyone's time.
doktor_g wrote: I am definitely considering fantasy. However, if they 40k fantasy... nope nope nope. Awaiting 9th anxiously....
Can agree. I'm already playing Fantasyhammer 40,000 (some armies more than others). If I was to get interested in 9th edition, it would be because Fantasy's differences from 40k.
That said, when a lot of people (including me) say they are looking forward to a "skirmish" game, it think its a combination of nostalgia and wanting a game with a smaller initial buy-in. One of the biggest complaints I've heard from Fantasy players is how expensive it is and how many models you need to field an army at the proper points level, even by the high standards of 40k.
I can buy into a game where magic is massively powerful and OTT, but it needs enough drawbacks and skill involved to make it worthwhile for both opponents, and not a guaranteed nuke.
This. If they stick with the "well you have to spend about a grand to get the full game experience" rules, this will be the last edition, and the game will be dead. Nobody around here has started a new fantasy army in years. Even people picking up the end times books just dusted off some older armies they have. The newer chaos models, skaven models, and whatever else they have released have languised on the shelves, save for what can be used in 40k as well, or for conversions for 40k.
I see this complaint a lot. But it has nothing to do with the rules, its the prices. Historicals manage mass battle armies without needing a mortage to get. Mantic do the same, and if a small startup company can the a huge international like gw can as well.
In 1991 skeleton army box containing 30 infantry, 8 cavlry and a chariot cost £9.99, if it had gone up with inflation it would cost £20 today, whereas infact they charge more lik £60 for those kinds of content.
What gw need to do is make core infantry cheap and cheerful while making the special, rare and characters more detailed expensive kits so people can get into the hobby, a mass battle game, at a realistic price, not basically destroy the game and make it a different skirmish game to make it affordable.
WFB has beein rubbish since 7th edition. Moving ranks from 4 across to 5 wasn't too bad, even if it was an obvious move to sell more models in order to maintain your 3 rank bonus. Then Steadfast came and completely wrecked any tactics involved with infantry that didn't revolve around running bus formations because they were effectively stubborn the whole game.
5 wide also messed up cavalry, especially when paired with the fact that most infantry units at the time were sold in sets of 8, meaning you needed at least 2 boxes just to run 2 min size units.
As things have stood since 8th released, I've been looking to sell off WFB altogether. The only way I can see myself bothering to keep what I have to play at home with the wives is if 9th fixes some of these glaring issues. Other than that perhaps I'd end up house ruling the 8th edition rules to balance out the things that are currently so very broken.
Aerethan wrote: WFB has beein rubbish since 7th edition. Moving ranks from 4 across to 5 wasn't too bad, even if it was an obvious move to sell more models in order to maintain your 3 rank bonus. Then Steadfast came and completely wrecked any tactics involved with infantry that didn't revolve around running bus formations because they were effectively stubborn the whole game.
5 wide also messed up cavalry, especially when paired with the fact that most infantry units at the time were sold in sets of 8, meaning you needed at least 2 boxes just to run 2 min size units.
As things have stood since 8th released, I've been looking to sell off WFB altogether. The only way I can see myself bothering to keep what I have to play at home with the wives is if 9th fixes some of these glaring issues. Other than that perhaps I'd end up house ruling the 8th edition rules to balance out the things that are currently so very broken.
My gaming group adores 8th edition. There are some pretty stupid rules, but as I've seen from GW, that's every in edition of 40k and Fantasy, as well as pretty much every codex/army book. The start-up price is just abominable, really, and that's why we end up making paper proxies most of the time. I'd love to start a Skaven army, but seeing as I don't really want to drop about $500 to get a small army, my fiancee and I are going to drop the ~$70 on a Hordes two player battle box, and the rest of our group is very happy to drop the ~$40 on a starter box for Warmahordes.
Honestly? I don't know if they will truly "kill Fantasy" in the eyes of my gaming group, but for the love of God, there are only a few armies without 8th edition books. I wish they'd release 8th edition books for those armies before moving on to 9th/Grimdark past of circle bases. However, I'm just going to laugh if none of the rumors end up being even slightly true. Only time will tell.
I'm really excited for 9th, but the only thing that worries me is: right now I'm on hold with all my Warhammer painting, modelling and army building because everything is so up in the air.
I'm worried that after this new "Age of Sigmar" drops everything will STILL be just as up in the air as GW won't say if this is 9th, or a new mini-skirmish game (perhaps even with limited support).
For example, I'm not going to embrace circle bases (even though I am a big fan of them) if it's just for this one game and later on a square base fantasy will be released.
Problem is you know GW are going to be silent on the whole issue... Oh well, time to collect AdMech while I wait for the dust to settle.
Aerethan wrote: Moving ranks from 4 across to 5 wasn't too bad, even if it was an obvious move to sell more models in order to maintain your 3 rank bonus.
I honestly liked it for aestetic reasons and while yes part of it was to sell more another could have been aestetics.
I like having a unit that's semi-symtetical. where I have GSCMG a command flanked on either side by a basic grunt. I think it looks better than the 4 man wide if you're taking a full command.
I play WHFB since 3rd edition and i actually quite liked 8th because after 25 years the first round of combat was not the only that mattered anymore.
I always rather played Warmaster to get the right feel of a Fantasy Battle.
The drop of players around 8th actually surprised me.
But i have enough armies of more than enough points to field any tournament size.
Quite a few friends of mine quit WHFB because of the size (to paint) and above all the cost of the armies you now needed.
I hope we go back to 2000 points AND get a good skirmish game (not Mordheim...) AND keep a WHFB that is fun to play.
Activation per unit instead of "you go, i go" could already do wonders for both WHFB as a skirmish version...
I liked the longer combat rounds. I hated the ultra powerful magic. Some games I played I never got into combat, with 2/3 of my army dead from magic in a couple of turns. I'm just hoping for some playable form of warhammer, skirmish or regular.
Of course, my attitude as a player is different from attitude as a retailer. I'm praying they don't make the huge wall of miniatures in my store more worthless than they are now. It's hard to imagine that all those big endtime models will fit into a skirmish game.
mikhaila wrote: I liked the longer combat rounds. I hated the ultra powerful magic. Some games I played I never got into combat, with 2/3 of my army dead from magic in a couple of turns. I'm just hoping for some playable form of warhammer, skirmish or regular.
Of course, my attitude as a player is different from attitude as a retailer. I'm praying they don't make the huge wall of miniatures in my store more worthless than they are now. It's hard to imagine that all those big endtime models will fit into a skirmish game.
Warhound titans (which admittedly you likely don't have on your wall) are now legal as a 750pt 40k equivalent "skirmish" army in this glorius current edition. I wouldn't say it is hard to imagine them doing the same in fantasy. All it takes is them simply not limiting the unbound-esque rumored rule to certain points and you have your Nagash skirmish army of one.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Does nobody here remember WFB 5E? In which the game revolved around taking the biggest thing with the least amount of Core tax paid?
Nope, but I do remember 6th edition and its accompanying masses of cavalry. Charge, get to attack first regardless of initiative, obliterate the front rank of your opponents unit. Even with spears an average combat resulted in the infantry only getting 2 - 3 attacks back.
Or 7th and its accompanying battery wizards. Low level wizards being used to fuel the higher levelled ones magic.
Currently in 8th magic generation has been put in a good place but too many spells have been over buffed. Gunlines and avoidance cavalry have also rendered certain armies which lack these units, such as Skaven, close to obsolete.
Commissar-Danno wrote: One way we are trying to avoid people jumping ship to straight up KOW in our gaming group, in regards to the new edition of 9th edition, is running a special tournament where the palyers put up a percentage for paying for the rule book, with the rule book going to the winner. That way our group can at least get the book and look through it and learn over the next few months before we decide if we should invest in the starter sets. Most of group has agreed to participate in the tournament and with some excitement generated for it.
I'm not sure I get this.
Why stop people moving to a game they may enjoy more, is cheaper and allows them to use (and keep buying and using) their beloved GW armies/figures.
If they try KOW and don't enjoy it, then fair enough, pull them back to the latest version of Warhammer.
The people I game with (and myself) have moved our fantasy armies to KOW. I still buy (now and again) GW figures to add to my KOW armies as they fit what I already have and in many cases I prefer them to Mantic stuff. I just don't understand why you'd purposefully stop people trying out other games.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Does nobody here remember WFB 5E? In which the game revolved around taking the biggest thing with the least amount of Core tax paid?
Nope, but I do remember 6th edition and its accompanying masses of cavalry. Charge, get to attack first regardless of initiative, obliterate the front rank of your opponents unit. Even with spears an average combat resulted in the infantry only getting 2 - 3 attacks back.
I've been preaching since 6th Edition that all the game needes was Step-Up, and everyone thought me a crazy, old coot. Maybe, maybe Steadfast that can be broken by flank charging and some tweaks to magic. The game was damn beautiful back then. Oh how I weep for thee, Slayercult, Dogs of War and red crested skinks...
mikhaila wrote: I liked the longer combat rounds. I hated the ultra powerful magic. Some games I played I never got into combat, with 2/3 of my army dead from magic in a couple of turns. I'm just hoping for some playable form of warhammer, skirmish or regular.
Of course, my attitude as a player is different from attitude as a retailer. I'm praying they don't make the huge wall of miniatures in my store more worthless than they are now. It's hard to imagine that all those big endtime models will fit into a skirmish game.
Warhound titans (which admittedly you likely don't have on your wall) are now legal as a 750pt 40k equivalent "skirmish" army in this glorius current edition. I wouldn't say it is hard to imagine them doing the same in fantasy. All it takes is them simply not limiting the unbound-esque rumored rule to certain points and you have your Nagash skirmish army of one.
And that's actually all you need .
If you don't kill him quick he can summon hundreds of points of undead a turn.
mikhaila wrote: I liked the longer combat rounds. I hated the ultra powerful magic. Some games I played I never got into combat, with 2/3 of my army dead from magic in a couple of turns. I'm just hoping for some playable form of warhammer, skirmish or regular.
Of course, my attitude as a player is different from attitude as a retailer. I'm praying they don't make the huge wall of miniatures in my store more worthless than they are now. It's hard to imagine that all those big endtime models will fit into a skirmish game.
Warhound titans (which admittedly you likely don't have on your wall) are now legal as a 750pt 40k equivalent "skirmish" army in this glorius current edition. I wouldn't say it is hard to imagine them doing the same in fantasy. All it takes is them simply not limiting the unbound-esque rumored rule to certain points and you have your Nagash skirmish army of one.
And that's actually all you need .
If you don't kill him quick he can summon hundreds of points of undead a turn.
That actually sounds pretty awesome, like a group of heroes caught him unawares or something, and they have to flee from him or kill him, all the while undead are popping up left, right and center and things get more desparate as the game goes on.
mikhaila wrote: I liked the longer combat rounds. I hated the ultra powerful magic. Some games I played I never got into combat, with 2/3 of my army dead from magic in a couple of turns. I'm just hoping for some playable form of warhammer, skirmish or regular.
Of course, my attitude as a player is different from attitude as a retailer. I'm praying they don't make the huge wall of miniatures in my store more worthless than they are now. It's hard to imagine that all those big endtime models will fit into a skirmish game.
Warhound titans (which admittedly you likely don't have on your wall) are now legal as a 750pt 40k equivalent "skirmish" army in this glorius current edition. I wouldn't say it is hard to imagine them doing the same in fantasy. All it takes is them simply not limiting the unbound-esque rumored rule to certain points and you have your Nagash skirmish army of one.
And that's actually all you need .
If you don't kill him quick he can summon hundreds of points of undead a turn.
That actually sounds pretty awesome, like a group of heroes caught him unawares or something, and they have to flee from him or kill him, all the while undead are popping up left, right and center and things get more desparate as the game goes on.
Yeah, springing a 1000pts game due to summoning stuff on someone who has no clue that he/she is playing at a 33% points deficit sounds great! Those kind of scenario are fine if you're playing with friends with full knowledge and forewarning as well as with custom objectives to reflect it. I have no problem playing asymetric games like that in those scenarios. The problem is when the rules allow you to suprise strangers with that BS and fall back on "it's completely legal!".
mikhaila wrote: I liked the longer combat rounds. I hated the ultra powerful magic. Some games I played I never got into combat, with 2/3 of my army dead from magic in a couple of turns. I'm just hoping for some playable form of warhammer, skirmish or regular.
Of course, my attitude as a player is different from attitude as a retailer. I'm praying they don't make the huge wall of miniatures in my store more worthless than they are now. It's hard to imagine that all those big endtime models will fit into a skirmish game.
Warhound titans (which admittedly you likely don't have on your wall) are now legal as a 750pt 40k equivalent "skirmish" army in this glorius current edition. I wouldn't say it is hard to imagine them doing the same in fantasy. All it takes is them simply not limiting the unbound-esque rumored rule to certain points and you have your Nagash skirmish army of one.
And that's actually all you need .
If you don't kill him quick he can summon hundreds of points of undead a turn.
That actually sounds pretty awesome, like a group of heroes caught him unawares or something, and they have to flee from him or kill him, all the while undead are popping up left, right and center and things get more desparate as the game goes on.
Sure, for a one off game with your friends... Pretty bad idea for pick up games (which grow the hobby).
Dudes, it was a passing comment about how you could possibly, just maybe, maybe just a little, have fun in that particular hypothetical situation about a rumored skirmish system that we know nothing about. Its obviously not the ideal situation, but just an idea on how you could spin it to have some enjoyment out of it.
And for what its worth, there is a scenario in the current BRB that details just such a situation...
JohnHwangDD wrote: Does nobody here remember WFB 5E? In which the game revolved around taking the biggest thing with the least amount of Core tax paid?
Nope, but I do remember 6th edition and its accompanying masses of cavalry. Charge, get to attack first regardless of initiative, obliterate the front rank of your opponents unit. Even with spears an average combat resulted in the infantry only getting 2 - 3 attacks back.
Or 7th and its accompanying battery wizards. Low level wizards being used to fuel the higher levelled ones magic.
Currently in 8th magic generation has been put in a good place but too many spells have been over buffed. Gunlines and avoidance cavalry have also rendered certain armies which lack these units, such as Skaven, close to obsolete.
And I remember how with tactics: skirmishers or small screening units, sacrificial units, small and mobile heroes, fast cavalry screening the front of the combat infantry, you could actually thwart those "invincible" cavalry units. It was a good game when unit placement and movement actually mattered.
Ans someone complaining about 7th edition's magic phase and praising 8th's? That is a laugh right there...
JohnHwangDD wrote: Does nobody here remember WFB 5E? In which the game revolved around taking the biggest thing with the least amount of Core tax paid?
Nope, but I do remember 6th edition and its accompanying masses of cavalry. Charge, get to attack first regardless of initiative, obliterate the front rank of your opponents unit. Even with spears an average combat resulted in the infantry only getting 2 - 3 attacks back.
Or 7th and its accompanying battery wizards. Low level wizards being used to fuel the higher levelled ones magic.
Currently in 8th magic generation has been put in a good place but too many spells have been over buffed. Gunlines and avoidance cavalry have also rendered certain armies which lack these units, such as Skaven, close to obsolete.
And I remember how with tactics: skirmishers or small screening units, sacrificial units, small and mobile heroes, fast cavalry screening the front of the combat infantry, you could actually thwart those "invincible" cavalry units. It was a good game when unit placement and movement actually mattered.
Ans someone complaining about 7th edition's magic phase and praising 8th's? That is a laugh right there...
Nah, im praising the magic generation, it no longer rewards the crap that was Battery Wizards. The rest of it is utterly broken and really needs a tone down.
Now the problem with your idea of skirmishers and screening units are that A) not all armies have enough cheap units like that to place on the table and B) the remnants of those units then fled straight through the big unit and usually panicked it.
Now the problem with your idea of skirmishers and screening units are that A) not all armies have enough cheap units like that to place on the table and B) the remnants of those units then fled straight through the big unit and usually panicked it.
All armies had at least one of the options that I proposed and you are making it seem like there were multiple large units of heavy cavalry, when in reality, barring armies like Bretonnia, people at most used one or two 6 man units (and a single unit of heavy cavalry was much more common).
I might be wrong about this since its been a while, but units under unit strength 5 didn't cause panic checks when they broke and also you could angle your non-skirmish sacrificial unit in such a way that the overrun / pursuit move caused the cavalry to expose its flank to your infantry (or to your cannons, bolt throwers and other armour ignoring war machines).
Hey, look at that, more tactics that didn't involve just pushing huge blocks of infantry forward and rolling the correct dice on the correct spell!
I do remember 5th and the only thing i liked was playing beastmen, because that was the only (living) army where you could have longer combat with than just the first round (because they had 2 wounds).
The rest of 5th was IMO only a little bit better than the 3rd and 4th "herohammer" and MSU 6th was no change for the better either. 7th was a step in a better direction and 8th was, aside from the magic, the best WHFB yet IMO.
And i even like it that magic can be good for everyone who takes it, not just the player with the most of it. But i do agree that it is too powerfull.
The game system just needs tweaking but i am VERY afraid that GW is changing the system, like most editions the last 15 years, on what they want to sell, not what people want to play.
For 40k that still seems to work.
For WHFB that might lead to the actual end times of WHFB.
7th edition did not have tactics. 7th edition had trigonometry and peculiar army builds that didn't look anything like an army and were designed to take advantage of 7th edition's redirection madness. It was utterly loathsome.
In 8th, you can build an army that looks, and behaves, like an army. It was a return to the good old days of 3rd edition, where combats lasted more than one round. Its problem is that it pushed the unit size too high.
Work out a sane way to play 8th with 25 being a very large unit, and 10-15 being reasonable, and you've got the ideal game (IMHO).
@Graphite: i agree!
Tweak 8th a bit (tune down magic) and get back to mor enormal sized units.
In my memory 3rd edition had A LOT of dragons and monsters by the way...
In 3rd (and 4th) i often was the only player without a flying monster on principle
(beside the dwarfs, who did have a rune covered strength 10 toughness 10 dwarven lord instead... ;-)
Commissar-Danno wrote: One way we are trying to avoid people jumping ship to straight up KOW in our gaming group, in regards to the new edition of 9th edition, is running a special tournament where the palyers put up a percentage for paying for the rule book, with the rule book going to the winner. That way our group can at least get the book and look through it and learn over the next few months before we decide if we should invest in the starter sets. Most of group has agreed to participate in the tournament and with some excitement generated for it.
I'm not sure I get this.
Why stop people moving to a game they may enjoy more, is cheaper and allows them to use (and keep buying and using) their beloved GW armies/figures.
If they try KOW and don't enjoy it, then fair enough, pull them back to the latest version of Warhammer.
The people I game with (and myself) have moved our fantasy armies to KOW. I still buy (now and again) GW figures to add to my KOW armies as they fit what I already have and in many cases I prefer them to Mantic stuff. I just don't understand why you'd purposefully stop people trying out other games.
Exactly - Hell, let 'em jump ship, and jump with 'em!
The rules for KoW are free - there is no invested risk.
I sure as heck don't want to be in the first wave of folks trying 9th edition Warhammer - wait for the reviews to come out, at the least.
The Auld Grump - To continue the ship analogy - the good ship Warhammer is listing to port and headed toward the reefs....
ORicK wrote: @Graphite: i agree!
Tweak 8th a bit (tune down magic) and get back to mor enormal sized units.
In my memory 3rd edition had A LOT of dragons and monsters by the way...
In 3rd (and 4th) i often was the only player without a flying monster on principle
(beside the dwarfs, who did have a rune covered strength 10 toughness 10 dwarven lord instead... ;-)
No, "Everything is flying" was more a 4th edition thing, with the flying high rules. Also combats tended to result in break-and-run-down, whereas 3rd had "free strikes" rather than unit wipeout when you won.
nels1031 wrote: Dudes, it was a passing comment about how you could possibly, just maybe, maybe just a little, have fun in that particular hypothetical situation about a rumored skirmish system that we know nothing about. Its obviously not the ideal situation, but just an idea on how you could spin it to have some enjoyment out of it.
And for what its worth, there is a scenario in the current BRB that details just such a situation...
Man, I think if that happened to me I'd find it completely hilarious. Would be a memorable game for sure.
I mean, I'd expect there to be some catch when he puts down 1 model total but still would be funny.
As someone who started collecting late 90's, this has been the same plot line as watching a pet succumb to age. Eventually you have to say, "im sorry, ill always fondly remember our time together and i hope that you are treated well in the future, but its time to say goodbye." Which is a damn shame, because there was such squandered potential. I have a feeling that's an emotion shared with all those who have jumped the fantasy ship.
I wonder if the new direction works in drumming up some new interest, because it seems to me that a majority of the sales of fantasy went to existing customers, and this all reeks of rebooting the hard drive and reinstalling everything. which is the more 'harmful' to someone the longer they've been collecting.
Ah, yes... the flying high rules... that was both 4th and horrible hahaha...
First turn everything went to the sky, the next turn the game often was more or less over.
But I also faced a lot of points in heroes and dragons in 3rd (50%) and it was almost impossible to win if you did not field heroes yourself.
IM DIEING HERE!!! I just painted up a Thanqual and Boneripper, looken mighty ratty I may add. BUT WHAT BASE.... Im not even sure what size round I need to buy off ebay.
Also before anyone says I can use both, there is sadly no way my OCD is going to allow a mix of round and square.
Chopxsticks wrote: IM DIEING HERE!!! I just painted up a Thanqual and Boneripper, looken mighty ratty I may add. BUT WHAT BASE.... Im not even sure what size round I need to buy off ebay.
Also before anyone says I can use both, there is sadly no way my OCD is going to allow a mix of round and square.
Id love to, haha. Im luckly in a spot where I have alot of painted and non based models, so im fine going either way. BUT those pics of the Lizardmen on rounds looked good. I could almost live with anything on 25mm and smaller on squares and everything else on rounds.
What if the rumourmongers have got things (understandably) mixed up, and:
- Warhammer Fantasy Battles doesn't actually change, and simply receives a new rulebook that consolidates the ET changes on top of 8th (in other words, 9th has already been here for months! Mind blown! )
- Age of Sigmar is a whole new game, rather than a subset of WFB. It has round bases and a low model count, and uses both new and old minis, and has its own rulebook and release. It basically exists like WotR and LotR; two entirely separate rulesets with minimal crossover that use the same minis.
This is all a shot in the dark, but I could see if happening. WFB doesn't go anywhere it's not already at, the new system comes along for those that want it, and we all hobby happily ever after.
I see new game, new rule book, I fancy I'll try it, so I buy it.
Cool I can use skaven but this new game is on rounds.
I look at the shelf, see all my current models on squares, ok no biggie, play new game with square bases.
Now say new Skaven model comes out, it can be used in new game AND current game but I gotta decide if its going on round or square. This is what bothers me. If I start slowly converting to the new round based game, well im screwed come time to play the current game.
So till then all my stuff sits with out bases until we know hard facts..
I have to agree that my OCD won't let me finish my current stuff because I NEED TO KNOW. I prefer circles for look, but we'll see. My OCD will eventually be sated.
Not really, but here's hoping.
Back in reality, if Age of Sigmar a single-mini skirmish game, the base size/type really won't matter, so go with squares if you want the minis for WFB. If the base size does end up mattering, then you could always just make some circular mini-trays to place the minis on for AoS games.
What if the rumourmongers have got things (understandably) mixed up, and:
- Warhammer Fantasy Battles doesn't actually change, and simply receives a new rulebook that consolidates the ET changes on top of 8th (in other words, 9th has already been here for months! Mind blown! )
- Age of Sigmar is a whole new game, rather than a subset of WFB. It has round bases and a low model count, and uses both new and old minis, and has its own rulebook and release. It basically exists like WotR and LotR; two entirely separate rulesets with minimal crossover that use the same minis.
This is all a shot in the dark, but I could see if happening. WFB doesn't go anywhere it's not already at, the new system comes along for those that want it, and we all hobby happily ever after.
Or perhaps that's just wishful thinking...
I hope with all of my being that you are right! That is what I have been thinking/hoping all along. New game, ties into the stuff going on with Araloth and his daughter that the ET books were alluding to...
Only a month to wait and see. And lots of new rumors to get me excited/depressed...
Deep down I think Im hoping rounds is official. I really think models like Boneripper and the Glotkin I have would look better on Rounds vs rectangle. I like the actual squares but damn, do I base it long ways or narrow? Thats my gripe with rectangle bases.
A note to put out there per BoLS and Steve the Warboss:
Just when you think you know what's happening (before it's happening) another rumor comes along and changes your outlook.
VIA Steve the Warboss
Age of Sigmar is not the Starter Set of the 9th Edition. It will be a Board Game like Space Hulk or Execution Force and with this Set, the Releases of the 9th Edition will begin.
Looks like Fantasy 9th is still coming, except this will just be the precursor to it.
So, interested to see what it ends up being. Since pre-orders are going up on a major national holiday in the U.S., pretty sure it wouldn't be pre-orders for 9th Edition. GW wouldn't do that to their U.S. stores.
If this is just another board game based on GW IP and not 9E proper, then I await the wild extrapolation of AoS mechanics to the always-looming-never-arriving Next Edition
Paradigm wrote: What if the rumourmongers have got things (understandably) mixed up, and:
- Warhammer Fantasy Battles doesn't actually change, and simply receives a new rulebook that consolidates the ET changes on top of 8th (in other words, 9th has already been here for months! Mind blown! )
- Age of Sigmar is a whole new game, rather than a subset of WFB. It has round bases and a low model count, and uses both new and old minis, and has its own rulebook and release. It basically exists like WotR and LotR; two entirely separate rulesets with minimal crossover that use the same minis.
Hush, you. All portents are that the sky is falling.
And for precedent, look at 40k. Just recently, 40k was converted into a board game, starter forces being combined Chaos and Inquisition. Everybody else got Squatted, but people can continue playing 7E for now...
Harry, Arthurius11 and Hastings have posted several hints that this game called Age of Sigmar is going to be a smaller affair than the mass-battle game WFB used to be in 8th. The rumor tracker has their posts.
It's basically more of a skirmish (low model count) game. The box contains a small rulebook with less pages than usual (at least that's what I understood reading Harry's latest posts regarding the rulebook) and two forces.
It is rumored to be 'human warriors' (a Sigmarite Knightly Order?) vs Chaos Warriors and Daemons of Khorne. Rules for the units are included in the box. And some scenarios. Calling it an introductory set (for new players but also to the new setting for us veterans) seems to be a fitting description of it.
The last posts from Hastings on WS mentioned new building kits to be released in the near future. The removal of several WFB buildings like the fortress seems to back this up. And Hastings can be trusted anyway.
The tracker has lots of good WFB rumors collected - if you focus mostly on these three.
If you even mildly dislike the recent narrative direction of 40K, brace yourself.
Whats changed in the narrative direction of 40K recently? Or are you getting it confused with the recent narrative direction of WHFB?
I suspect it's a reference to the "forging a narrative because we can't be arsed to write decent rules" direction rather than any sort of fluff narrative.
Sad Panda - Total rumors: (18 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (0 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
Perfect records are made to be broken
TBH, I doubt GW would release a new version of the game and set it up to pre-orders when all of it's hobby stores in the U.S. will be closed for a national holiday. For a company that is all about maximizing the amount of money they can make, that bit does not make any sense. Hence my skepticism.
Warhams-77 wrote: Where is Sad Panda mentioning a preorder date? Edit: Okay it was related to the name, I see
He isn't. That guy is mixing up the leaked picture and Sad Panda,
Leaked picture is for release of Age of Sigmar. Sad Panda said that Age of Sigmar replaces WHFB and is the new version of Warhammer. The two seem to be directly related. Hence why I'm not buying what Sad Panda is saying.
Warhams-77 wrote: Where is Sad Panda mentioning a preorder date? Edit: Okay it was related to the name, I see
He isn't. That guy is mixing up the leaked picture and Sad Panda,
Leaked picture is for release of Age of Sigmar. Sad Panda said that Age of Sigmar replaces WHFB and is the new version of Warhammer. The two seem to be directly related. Hence why I'm not buying what Sad Panda is saying.
If I'm missing something, let me know.
I get it; I just think if they weren't going to release WHFB on July 4th, they also wouldn't release anything else. The same logic applies. The fact is that they are releasing something on 7/4, so it could very well be WHFB.
The image from earlier stated the pre-order date as July 4, release July 11.
Which is fact unless it is a REALLY good fake.
Have seen a store owner in the US post on Twitter a pamphlet in English. Design is the same, only in English. Either it is a well coordinated grouping of fakes, or this is marketing GW is sending out to retailers. I'll agree with the latter.
I get it; I just think if they weren't going to release WHFB on July 4th, they also wouldn't release anything else. The same logic applies. The fact is that they are releasing something on 7/4, so it could very well be WHFB.
Could be. GW always makes a huge deal about Red Letter days and that store owners must be there around these huge releases. So, makes me think that they wouldn't have a giant release on a U.S. Holiday.
Granted, I may be trying to give GW too much credit, but I just wouldn't see them doing that to their stores, as it will impact their employees from being able to capitalize on sales. If they have pre-orders go up online on a holiday and the stores aren't open, all of the "eager hobbyists" that GW prides themselves on building a relationship with will pre-order their stuff on the webstore and not pre-ordering in store. Which then means the GW store managers don't get credit for the sale.
It just leads me to think this is as one of the rumors said and some sort of board game that helps to bridge the gap somehow into 9th Ed.
Why wouldn't GW expect their US employees go into work on a holiday?
They certainly don't care about them to any great extent
(and the whole thing was probably planned back when Fridays were the release day so preview on the 3rd , release on the 10th and I wouldn't put it past them not to have realised the significance the change to the Saturday releases would cause over there)
I'm kinda of getting excited about whats coming, in a way the wfb had become a bit stale to me and I'd like to see where they take it. I know it's not everybodys point of view but it will be cool to see an evolution of the setting and armies.
Is it just me, or is that hinting at what we might see if the new factions?
Spiel about Chaos: Chaos, obviously
Children of the Old Ones: lizards
Who Else Escaped: the Elves in their pocket dimension
Can dead things die: undead
Who is left: Sigmar/men
What does he cling to: new Order-based faction.
Might just be reading too far into it, but is it just coincidence that there are six distinct paragraphs/descriptions and all the rumours say 6 factions?
Bubbles aren't necessarily the same thing as "realities".
Just sayin' here.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Paradigm wrote: Is it just me, or is that hinting at what we might see if the new factions?
Spiel about Chaos: Chaos, obviously
Children of the Old Ones: lizards
Who Else Escaped: the Elves in their pocket dimension
Can dead things die: undead
Who is left: Sigmar/men
What does he cling to: new Order-based faction.
Might just be reading too far into it, but is it just coincidence that there are six distinct paragraphs/descriptions and all the rumours say 6 factions?
"All the rumors" keep contradicting themselves, so I wouldn't put much stock into it.
First it's "there will only be six armies!", then "six factions!" then back to "six armies!" and so on.
Pre-order on July 4 seems mind-blowingly stupid but ah well, they haven't really been interested in selling fantasy for a while now or they would have done more to keep people interested between blowing up the world and what's next.
"Dad, dad, I need to go to the warhammer store and buy some stuff."
"Shut up and get in the boat."
Commissar-Danno wrote: One way we are trying to avoid people jumping ship to straight up KOW in our gaming group, in regards to the new edition of 9th edition, is running a special tournament where the palyers put up a percentage for paying for the rule book, with the rule book going to the winner. That way our group can at least get the book and look through it and learn over the next few months before we decide if we should invest in the starter sets. Most of group has agreed to participate in the tournament and with some excitement generated for it.
I'm not sure I get this.
Why stop people moving to a game they may enjoy more, is cheaper and allows them to use (and keep buying and using) their beloved GW armies/figures.
If they try KOW and don't enjoy it, then fair enough, pull them back to the latest version of Warhammer.
The people I game with (and myself) have moved our fantasy armies to KOW. I still buy (now and again) GW figures to add to my KOW armies as they fit what I already have and in many cases I prefer them to Mantic stuff. I just don't understand why you'd purposefully stop people trying out other games.
Exactly - Hell, let 'em jump ship, and jump with 'em!
The rules for KoW are free - there is no invested risk.
I sure as heck don't want to be in the first wave of folks trying 9th edition Warhammer - wait for the reviews to come out, at the least.
The Auld Grump - To continue the ship analogy - the good ship Warhammer is listing to port and headed toward the reefs....
Honestly, anyone doing everything they can to prevent others from trying new games they might like are a group of a-holes. Doesn't matter what the game is. You don't dictate how others have fun. If you try to, you're a bad person. Pretty simple, really.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, Pretre, I emailed you two days ago about the 11th being release day. Feel free to share my email and add me to the rumor tracker.
timetowaste85 wrote: Also, Pretre, I emailed you two days ago about the 11th being release day. Feel free to share my email and add me to the rumor tracker.
Keeping source safe again, but release date for 9th is July 11th. Stores are starting to get a heads up. I'll post properly in the thread in a week. If you want to add me to the board, I posted that there would be a big window (for GW) for the release of 9th. I'd say 5 weeks counts.
I'll talk about it in the Tracker thread. I'm unsure about tracking rumors that aren't public.
Sad Panda - Total rumors: (18 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (0 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
Perfect records are made to be broken
TBH, I doubt GW would release a new version of the game and set it up to pre-orders when all of it's hobby stores in the U.S. will be closed for a national holiday. For a company that is all about maximizing the amount of money they can make, that bit does not make any sense. Hence my skepticism.
Yeah, well, you shared info from Steve The Warboss while doubting Panda, so forgive me if I don't put great faith in your judgment!
Sad Panda - Total rumors: (18 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (0 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
Perfect records are made to be broken
TBH, I doubt GW would release a new version of the game and set it up to pre-orders when all of it's hobby stores in the U.S. will be closed for a national holiday. For a company that is all about maximizing the amount of money they can make, that bit does not make any sense. Hence my skepticism.
Yeah, well, you shared info from Steve The Warboss while doubting Panda, so forgive me if I don't put great faith in your judgment!
The planes/realities/dimensions fluff was there right from the beginning when they invented the Warhammer World actually. It was just Planet Earth but in a different dimension (with all the similiarities like Tilea/Italy, Estalia/Espania, The Empire/The Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation etc but under influence of the Old Ones, Chaos etc.). It was like that of course to sell models from their then current miniature ranges which included medieval knights amongst ninjas and orcs.
From the 2nd Edition Battle Bestiary book - which introduced the WFB fluff in 1984
*Edited and re-uploaded the image (Page 7 from Bestiary)*
Sad Panda - Total rumors: (18 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (0 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
Perfect records are made to be broken
TBH, I doubt GW would release a new version of the game and set it up to pre-orders when all of it's hobby stores in the U.S. will be closed for a national holiday. For a company that is all about maximizing the amount of money they can make, that bit does not make any sense. Hence my skepticism.
Yeah, well, you shared info from Steve The Warboss while doubting Panda, so forgive me if I don't put great faith in your judgment!
Not sure if serious...
I was referring to the perfect records bit, probably should've edited for clarity.
Commissar-Danno wrote: One way we are trying to avoid people jumping ship to straight up KOW in our gaming group, in regards to the new edition of 9th edition, is running a special tournament where the palyers put up a percentage for paying for the rule book, with the rule book going to the winner. That way our group can at least get the book and look through it and learn over the next few months before we decide if we should invest in the starter sets. Most of group has agreed to participate in the tournament and with some excitement generated for it.
I'm not sure I get this.
Why stop people moving to a game they may enjoy more, is cheaper and allows them to use (and keep buying and using) their beloved GW armies/figures.
If they try KOW and don't enjoy it, then fair enough, pull them back to the latest version of Warhammer.
The people I game with (and myself) have moved our fantasy armies to KOW. I still buy (now and again) GW figures to add to my KOW armies as they fit what I already have and in many cases I prefer them to Mantic stuff. I just don't understand why you'd purposefully stop people trying out other games.
Exactly - Hell, let 'em jump ship, and jump with 'em!
The rules for KoW are free - there is no invested risk.
I sure as heck don't want to be in the first wave of folks trying 9th edition Warhammer - wait for the reviews to come out, at the least.
The Auld Grump - To continue the ship analogy - the good ship Warhammer is listing to port and headed toward the reefs....
Honestly, anyone doing everything they can to prevent others from trying new games they might like are a group of a-holes. Doesn't matter what the game is. You don't dictate how others have fun. If you try to, you're a bad person. Pretty simple, really.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, Pretre, I emailed you two days ago about the 11th being release day. Feel free to share my email and add me to the rumor tracker.
Which is why I mentioned KoW having no invested risk - if the round base rumor proves true then it will be easier for them to try KoW than the new Warhammer.
Telling people to wait for the reviews is not the same as telling people not to bother. It is telling people to hold off, and see what is actually coming out, rather than accepting any and all rumors as true. Then to find a reviewer that more or less shares their preferences, and seeing what that reviewer thinks. (I do the same thing with movies - and generally avoid the first night of any release.)
While I will be skipping the new edition (barring truly stellar reviews) it has at least as much to not liking the way GW does business as it does with any rumors of the game.
The Auld Grump - though given the most recent editions of WH and WH40K... my hopes for a truly stellar game are dim at best....
Warhams-77 wrote: The planes/realities/dimensions fluff was there right from the beginning when they invented the Warhammer World actually. It was just Planet Earth but in a different dimension (with all the similiarities like Tilea/Italy, Estalia/Espania, The Empire/The Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation etc but under influence of the Old Ones, Chaos etc.). It was like that of course to sell models from their then current miniature ranges which included medieval knights amongst ninjas and orcs.
From the 2nd Edition Battle Bestiary book - which introduced the WFB fluff in 1984
*Edit Link not loading*
I don't think that's quite correct... IIRC (and I'll admit it's been a while since I dug through the fluff), the Warhammer world wasn't in a different dimension, it explcitly *was* in the same dimention/universe as our own Earth. The justification of why the Warhammer World looked "like" Earth was that the Slann modified planets to suit their needs and the Slann modified-worlds looked similar to each other as that was supposed to be how they stabilized the weather and temperatures through geoengineering. The expectation was that there were many worlds that would look generally the same because of the Slann's efforts.
timetowaste85 wrote: Also, Pretre, I emailed you two days ago about the 11th being release day. Feel free to share my email and add me to the rumor tracker.
Keeping source safe again, but release date for 9th is July 11th. Stores are starting to get a heads up. I'll post properly in the thread in a week. If you want to add me to the board, I posted that there would be a big window (for GW) for the release of 9th. I'd say 5 weeks counts.
I'll talk about it in the Tracker thread. I'm unsure about tracking rumors that aren't public.
Giving you the info only at first was twofold: keeping source safe and making sure info was reliable. Now that I know what the source gets is legit, expect public info whenever I get it!
Warhams-77 wrote: The planes/realities/dimensions fluff was there right from the beginning when they invented the Warhammer World actually. It was just Planet Earth but in a different dimension (with all the similiarities like Tilea/Italy, Estalia/Espania, The Empire/The Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation etc but under influence of the Old Ones, Chaos etc.). It was like that of course to sell models from their then current miniature ranges which included medieval knights amongst ninjas and orcs.
From the 2nd Edition Battle Bestiary book - which introduced the WFB fluff in 1984
*Edit Link not loading*
I don't think that's quite correct... IIRC (and I'll admit it's been a while since I dug through the fluff), the Warhammer world wasn't in a different dimension, it explcitly *was* in the same dimention/universe as our own Earth. The justification of why the Warhammer World looked "like" Earth was that the Slann modified planets to suit their needs and the Slann modified-worlds looked similar to each other as that was supposed to be how they stabilized the weather and temperatures through geoengineering. The expectation was that there were many worlds that would look generally the same because of the Slann's efforts.
Valete,
JohnS
Nope The WFB world was in a different reality at day one of the fluff
I was referring to the perfect records bit, probably should've edited for clarity.
For some reason, I thought you were responding to me. My inherent egotism is leaking out again. My bad.
Yeah, he was talking about me.
Sad Panda is probably 100% correct and I'm completely wrong... My mistake was believing that GW may have learned something by now... If it is true, I do feel a bit bad for the GW store managers as their sales will get cannibalized by the pre-order being up on a holiday. The small percentage of people that still went into the store to pre-order directly from them will get whittled away more and more now...
HobbyBox wrote: Here are the images pulled from Twitter in English
Are we considering this as proof that Age of Sigmar = 9th edition or do we think it's still possible that it's a stand alone box game?
The only real proof is that is in WD this weekend.
The thought is it is 9th Ed or something related at least. As someone on Twitter said, they wouldn't advertise a board game a month out, so it has to be something bigger than that. Whether it is the true successor to 8th Edition or something completely new (or both), we will have to rely on folks to leak for us (as we know GW won't tell us a fething thing).
So tomorrow I get to beat up my GW rep about AoS, and he'll deny it totally because of stupid rules. Then Monday hopefully they will have something to say about it. Unless GW is ungodly stupid and wants us to ignore AoS until the week before, like they have us do now with everything else. In which case I'll spend another month selling DnD, flames of war, warmahordes, magic, and 100 other games that people are excited about. Then in the last 7 days try to get customers to thing about AoS , which i will have maybe a paragraph of into on.
I was referring to the perfect records bit, probably should've edited for clarity.
For some reason, I thought you were responding to me. My inherent egotism is leaking out again. My bad.
Yeah, he was talking about me.
Sad Panda is probably 100% correct and I'm completely wrong... My mistake was believing that GW may have learned something by now... If it is true, I do feel a bit bad for the GW store managers as their sales will get cannibalized by the pre-order being up on a holiday. The small percentage of people that still went into the store to pre-order directly from them will get whittled away more and more now...
Now the problem with your idea of skirmishers and screening units are that A) not all armies have enough cheap units like that to place on the table and B) the remnants of those units then fled straight through the big unit and usually panicked it.
All armies had at least one of the options that I proposed and you are making it seem like there were multiple large units of heavy cavalry, when in reality, barring armies like Bretonnia, people at most used one or two 6 man units (and a single unit of heavy cavalry was much more common).
I might be wrong about this since its been a while, but units under unit strength 5 didn't cause panic checks when they broke and also you could angle your non-skirmish sacrificial unit in such a way that the overrun / pursuit move caused the cavalry to expose its flank to your infantry (or to your cannons, bolt throwers and other armour ignoring war machines).
Hey, look at that, more tactics that didn't involve just pushing huge blocks of infantry forward and rolling the correct dice on the correct spell!
You know, that still works in 8th, you just use it on the big blocks of infantry and hit them in the flank(s) and rear so they can't reform. It may take a while to grind them down, but when they get very few attacks back it's a very sure method.
Magic... yeah, magic can be pants in 8th. It can be fixed, though.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chopxsticks wrote: IM DIEING HERE!!! I just painted up a Thanqual and Boneripper, looken mighty ratty I may add. BUT WHAT BASE.... Im not even sure what size round I need to buy off ebay.
Also before anyone says I can use both, there is sadly no way my OCD is going to allow a mix of round and square.
The base it came with. That's the standard WFB rule.
Welp, it's looking more and more like we're in a "so long and thanks for all the Fishmen" scenario from my perspective.
When I mentioned cyclical I meant in terms of the background we already have, ie the existing Warhammer World trapped in a closed time-loop where everything ends and goes right back to the beginning. Exploring the background I already enjoyed in greater detail from a "historical" perspective would have been something I was enthused by, Bubblehammer less-so. Indeed if there's one of those funny German compound words that describes not just the opposite of enthusiasm but a deep sense of existential sadness brought on by a person failing to be enthused by something they once cared for deeply, that would be useful right now.
Ach well, the anger has mostly faded to an Iron Warriors-ish spiteful annoyance at this point, and you never know maybe some of the newer models for Age of Kirby will fit aesthetically with real Warhammer and so be useful for Mordheim.
Granted, I may be trying to give GW too much credit, but I just wouldn't see them doing that to their stores, as it will impact their employees from being able to capitalize on sales. If they have pre-orders go up online on a holiday and the stores aren't open, all of the "eager hobbyists" that GW prides themselves on building a relationship with will pre-order their stuff on the webstore and not pre-ordering in store. Which then means the GW store managers don't get credit for the sale.
It just leads me to think this is as one of the rumors said and some sort of board game that helps to bridge the gap somehow into 9th Ed.
If you lean towards incompetence; I wouldn't be surprised if the people at GW Nottingham realised July 4th was a major US holiday. We work for a US company and forget about it every year until our US colleagues go away for the weekend.
If you towards malice; If most of the FLGS's are closed on the 4th, the fans will have to pre-order from the website to get delivered or picked up from a store. So it's a brilliant way of shafting the independents again.
I'm lost. What's so special about July 4 (Independence Day)? The release is July 11, isn't it?
Is the idea that people will rush out on July 4 to their FLGS to preorder something? O.o Because that makes so little sense -- I email my preorders to my store as soon as I know about them from leaked white dwarf New Items pages -- so Tuesday/Wednesday, of the week before, really. And at least in this area, GW allows stores to officially release product on Friday at 4pm or so (maybe to synchronize with GMT? I dunno). But anyhow, most stores aren't very good with the embargoes
Talys wrote: I'm lost. What's so special about July 4 (Independence Day)? The release is July 11, isn't it?
Is the idea that people will rush out on July 4 to their FLGS to preorder something? O.o Because that makes so little sense -- I email my preorders to my store as soon as I know about them from leaked white dwarf New Items pages -- so Tuesday/Wednesday, of the week before, really. And at least in this area, GW allows stores to officially release product on Friday at 4pm or so (maybe to synchronize with GMT? I dunno). But anyhow, most stores aren't very good with the embargoes
Because it'll no doubt come with dozens of stock limited products that they will assume will sell out on pre-order day.
If the FLGS's are closed, lots of people who don't keep as up to date on rumours won't get a chance to pre order. Unless they use the GW site direct.
I think it's more likely they just don't realise that the colonies have different national holidays.
Yodhrin wrote: Indeed if there's one of those funny German compound words that describes not just the opposite of enthusiasm but a deep sense of existential sadness brought on by a person failing to be enthused by something they once cared for deeply, that would be useful right now.
Talys wrote: I'm lost. What's so special about July 4 (Independence Day)? The release is July 11, isn't it?
Is the idea that people will rush out on July 4 to their FLGS to preorder something? O.o Because that makes so little sense -- I email my preorders to my store as soon as I know about them from leaked white dwarf New Items pages -- so Tuesday/Wednesday, of the week before, really. And at least in this area, GW allows stores to officially release product on Friday at 4pm or so (maybe to synchronize with GMT? I dunno). But anyhow, most stores aren't very good with the embargoes
Because it'll no doubt come with dozens of stock limited products that they will assume will sell out on pre-order day.
If the FLGS's are closed, lots of people who don't keep as up to date on rumours won't get a chance to pre order. Unless they use the GW site direct.
I think it's more likely they just don't realise that the colonies have different national holidays.
I guess I understand why someone might fear this, but it isn't founded.
First, FLGS all get allocations of constrained items (I assume based on their sales volume, but I don't know this for a fact). They don't place their orders until the week of release (ie Monday or later), so internally, their own reservation list just happens in whatever way they choose -- probably first come first serve reservations. So, let's say White Dwarf comes out Wednesday or Thursday. Friday they get 3 preorders, Saturday they are closed, Sunday they get 5 more preorders.
Monday rolls around, they place an order for 12, and everybody's happy. Or the rep says, I can only give you 7, and then the last person is bumped, and none for the shelf. Normally, the week before, the store can call their GW rep and get an idea of how many they can get, if it's a high demand, constrained item. That way they don't take 20 reservations for Shield of Baal, and get 1 copy, or something stupid like that.
Yodhrin wrote: Indeed if there's one of those funny German compound words that describes not just the opposite of enthusiasm but a deep sense of existential sadness brought on by a person failing to be enthused by something they once cared for deeply, that would be useful right now.
4th seems an eminently sensible preorder date for a company that wants to direct as much of its sales through its own sales channels as possible.
Now, it may not be a great idea for many people personally, or indeed the many FLGS that have supported the game for years and I agree with those that think it sucks for US players, but from a profitability viewpoint, ensuring that the very best way, and perhaps the only way, of securing a preorder for in demand and possibly limited product is via your own webstore seems logical.
Besides, in the rest of the world it isnt a holiday at all.
Talys wrote: I'm lost. What's so special about July 4 (Independence Day)? The release is July 11, isn't it?
Is the idea that people will rush out on July 4 to their FLGS to preorder something? O.o Because that makes so little sense -- I email my preorders to my store as soon as I know about them from leaked white dwarf New Items pages -- so Tuesday/Wednesday, of the week before, really. And at least in this area, GW allows stores to officially release product on Friday at 4pm or so (maybe to synchronize with GMT? I dunno). But anyhow, most stores aren't very good with the embargoes
Because it'll no doubt come with dozens of stock limited products that they will assume will sell out on pre-order day.
If the FLGS's are closed, lots of people who don't keep as up to date on rumours won't get a chance to pre order. Unless they use the GW site direct.
I think it's more likely they just don't realise that the colonies have different national holidays.
I guess I understand why someone might fear this, but it isn't founded.
First, FLGS all get allocations of constrained items (I assume based on their sales volume, but I don't know this for a fact). They don't place their orders until the week of release (ie Monday or later), so internally, their own reservation list just happens in whatever way they choose -- probably first come first serve reservations. So, let's say White Dwarf comes out Wednesday or Thursday. Friday they get 3 preorders, Saturday they are closed, Sunday they get 5 more preorders.
Monday rolls around, they place an order for 12, and everybody's happy. Or the rep says, I can only give you 7, and then the last person is bumped, and none for the shelf. Normally, the week before, the store can call their GW rep and get an idea of how many they can get, if it's a high demand, constrained item. That way they don't take 20 reservations for Shield of Baal, and get 1 copy, or something stupid like that.
Assuming of course, that if the FLGS is closed on the Saturday (or even the whole weekend) the customer will be able to visit on the Monday/Tuesday to order, and that there will be any left.
I think there is some pre-allocation given to stores based on sales, which should be done before the pre-orders on the website, so it's minimal.
Kirby seems to have the same level of respect for the former colonies as the Queen watching the Olympics:
Fourth of July? They should be celebrating our new game! Why aren't they sitting, waiting at their computers for our fantastic miniature of jewel-like wonder?! They should know things can appear at any time, and an idle wallet is a dangerous one!
Assuming of course, that if the FLGS is closed on the Saturday (or even the whole weekend) the customer will be able to visit on the Monday/Tuesday to order, and that there will be any left.
I think there is some pre-allocation given to stores based on sales, which should be done before the pre-orders on the website, so it's minimal.
Most GW stores that are 1 man are closed on monday/tuesday...
Assuming of course, that if the FLGS is closed on the Saturday (or even the whole weekend) the customer will be able to visit on the Monday/Tuesday to order, and that there will be any left.
I think there is some pre-allocation given to stores based on sales, which should be done before the pre-orders on the website, so it's minimal.
Most GW stores that are 1 man are closed on monday/tuesday...
Good point. Some customers might not be able to pre-order anything until Wednesday (they might not be old enough for a credit card to use online, for instance).
I'm chalking this one firmly up to incompetence, as it'll hurt GW stores more than independents.
Herzlos wrote: Good point. Some customers might not be able to pre-order anything until Wednesday (they might not be old enough for a credit card to use online, for instance).
Exceedingly unlikely - the biggest buyers I've seen are single guys in their 20s.
This wouldn't be the 1st time GW stores had something going on on a US driven holiday. I have no issues with that, the only thing they are doing is not gearing it to broader audiences. I mean ... why 4th of July ?! out of all the days in the summer ...
I think this past December they had something on the 24th too.. like I was going to crawl out of my house middle of winter holiday to pre-order something ... ha!
HobbyBox wrote:Here are the images pulled from Twitter in English
Can't help but think of the Iron Born when I read the second picture. What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger!
Exactly what I was thinking! "Hmm, did George RR Martin take over writing fluff for WHFB?"
While the GW-writers probably got it from ASoIaF, it is a direct Lovecraft/Cthulhu-reference in Martin's work. (cue Kraken-symbol for House Greyjoy and lots of Cthulhu-names like Dagon Greyjoy).
HobbyBox wrote:Here are the images pulled from Twitter in English
Can't help but think of the Iron Born when I read the second picture. What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger!
Exactly what I was thinking! "Hmm, did George RR Martin take over writing fluff for WHFB?"
While the GW-writers probably got it from ASoIaF, it is a direct Lovecraft/Cthulhu-reference in Martin's work. (cue Kraken-symbol for House Greyjoy and lots of Cthulhu-names like Dagon Greyjoy).
GW doesn't care about the 4th, they've done it before.
And it doesn't really matter to most stores. We won't be ordering product until that Monday. Mail order selling out doesn't affect us. If they announce special product, let your FLGS know asap so they know how to order and who is interested.
If it's a "must have", then order it from GW. But I'd check with your FLGS first, they might be have info knowing how many of a limited product they have coming already in a case like this. Hopefully we get a bit of info in the coming month. I also have hope the emperor will start taking tap dancing lessons.
Death96 wrote: I happened to spy on a GW Manager using his computer today. I saw a list of things to be removed from the shelves on Friday (assuming Friday evening).
The rule book
Starter set
ALL army books
All End times books
Movement trays
There was about 10 things on the list but that is all I can remember
Death96 wrote: I happened to spy on a GW Manager using his computer today. I saw a list of things to be removed from the shelves on Friday (assuming Friday evening).
The rule book
Starter set
ALL army books
All End times books
Movement trays
There was about 10 things on the list but that is all I can remember
Here is a blog out there that is reporting the same thing. Heard from a seller:
Well, if I'm restarting WoC, I'm glad I wouldn't need to start with the 8th rulebook first! This in fact IS good news (for me. Sorry for you other Schmuc-um, poor fellows).
What is the reason with removing Deathknell Watch and the End times books, and to an extent the Starter boxes?? They just going to throw it in the streets and burn it? The End times books seemed like good reads, why would you not want those around anymore? They want anything with old rules gone?
Chopxsticks wrote: What is the reason with removing Deathknell Watch and the End times books, and to an extent the Starter boxes?? They just going to throw it in the streets and burn it? The End times books seemed like good reads, why would you not want those around anymore? They want anything with old rules gone?
The whole thing is odd. I mean, I can still occasionally find Assault on Black Reach boxes, and starters are usually great little champions for the hobby.
There pulling the movement trays this week, dammit half my high elf army is on them, better go buy some more before the weekend. My OCD won't allow me to have half the army on them and half on MDF ones!
Everything I've heard this year make it feel like their killing the game I've been playing for 20+ years. I can't see how this is going to work out for them, their about to lose about a third of their customers overnight surely? They really will be a one trick pony with everything relying on 40K sales, which ain't been going so well.
Tamereth wrote: There pulling the movement trays this week, dammit half my high elf army is on them, better go buy some more before the weekend. My OCD won't allow me to have half the army on them and half on MDF ones!
Everything I've heard this year make it feel like their killing the game I've been playing for 20+ years. I can't see how this is going to work out for them, their about to lose about a third of their customers overnight surely? They really will be a one trick pony with everything relying on 40K sales, which ain't been going so well.
I sympathize, and feel for you and everyone in the same position. At the same time, though... I know ten folks willing to play whatever this new game is, with me, and that has me excited. I usually have an impossible task trying to rally players for anything other than 40k, so it excites me that this game, coming from GW, is instantly "big" enough, to justify buying models and knowing it will have a fair fighting chance to be good.
Sadly, I own too much, of too many, brilliant games that go untouched, because they don't meet "hobby shop critical mass".
Death96 wrote: I happened to spy on a GW Manager using his computer today. I saw a list of things to be removed from the shelves on Friday (assuming Friday evening).
The rule book
Starter set
ALL army books
All End times books
Movement trays
There was about 10 things on the list but that is all I can remember
Here is a blog out there that is reporting the same thing. Heard from a seller:
Movement trays and templates gone? Sounds like confirmation of skirmishhammer to me. And lack of army books bodes ill for anyone playing any or the armies who's futures are still up in he air.
I read somewhere -- I cannot recall where now -- there will be new movement trays that are compatible with both round and square bases. Am I dreaming this up, or something?
If the movement trays aren't replaced then I think it confirms the skirmish game, if it is replaced then it will mean both mass and skirmish will be allowed I think.
So lets see what happens with these movement trays, unless we get evidence that states otherwise.
If Fantasy turns into a skirmish game and I can still use what I have for what ends up being the games Undead, and the rules are decent, I'll give it a go. It's all going to hinge on three things - lowering the model count drastically, making better rules, and not invalidating previous collections.
Hrm. Pulling the Isle of Blood boxes is a bummer. Those are the best sources for the nice Skaven Rat Ogres - which, coincidentally, make the best Dark Eldar Grotesques.
Everything I've heard this year make it feel like their killing the game I've been playing for 20+ years. I can't see how this is going to work out for them, their about to lose about a third of their customers overnight surely? They really will be a one trick pony with everything relying on 40K sales, which ain't been going so well.
Yeah I would echo what you are saying here. Apart from the changes made at the start of 8th (random charges etc), WHFB has remained pretty steady for the 20+ years I have been playing it. I'd say there will be a substantial fall off in existing players once 9th hits. For me the critical aspect is where they go with the fluff. I think it will be a challenge after they blew up the world and a horde of existing characters and places, but if it is decent then there could be a large buy in from existing players.
Talys wrote:I read somewhere -- I cannot recall where now -- there will be new movement trays that are compatible with both round and square bases. Am I dreaming this up, or something?
No, but someone else did. It was pure speculation (wishlisting, even) following the round base rumour.
Chopxsticks wrote: What is the reason with removing Deathknell Watch and the End times books, and to an extent the Starter boxes?? They just going to throw it in the streets and burn it? The End times books seemed like good reads, why would you not want those around anymore? They want anything with old rules gone?
I can't answer for the reason, but you're not far off with what'll happen to the stock. They will destroy it.
Tamereth wrote: There pulling the movement trays this week, dammit half my high elf army is on them, better go buy some more before the weekend. My OCD won't allow me to have half the army on them and half on MDF ones!
Ditto. Unless they've raised the price dramatically, the movement tray kit always felt like one of the better priced 'accessory' items from GeeDub. You have to do quite a bit of work filling gaps and cleaning them up - and you could obviously just make your own from scratch for a fraction of the cost - but the end result is really solid.
Anyway, should probably go stock up, for 8.5E and all that
-Loki- wrote: If Fantasy turns into a skirmish game and I can still use what I have for what ends up being the games Undead, and the rules are decent, I'll give it a go. It's all going to hinge on three things - lowering the model count drastically, making better rules, and not invalidating previous collections.
-Loki- wrote: If Fantasy turns into a skirmish game and I can still use what I have for what ends up being the games Undead, and the rules are decent, I'll give it a go. It's all going to hinge on three things - lowering the model count drastically, making better rules, and not invalidating previous collections.
I wish you luck on the making better rules.
They have them... or at least the frame-work for them. A marriage between LotR and WHFB would work really well if they embrace the strengths of both.
Swastakowey wrote: If the movement trays aren't replaced then I think it confirms the skirmish game, if it is replaced then it will mean both mass and skirmish will be allowed I think.
So lets see what happens with these movement trays, unless we get evidence that states otherwise.
Chopxsticks wrote: What is the reason with removing Deathknell Watch and the End times books, and to an extent the Starter boxes?? They just going to throw it in the streets and burn it? The End times books seemed like good reads, why would you not want those around anymore? They want anything with old rules gone?
I can't answer for the reason, but you're not far off with what'll happen to the stock. They will destroy it.
Oh it'll be destroyed.
I can see the End Times books going, if they were in fact what a lot of people suspected and a way to "showcase" new rules for WHFB.
Boss Salvage wrote:Unless they've raised the price dramatically, the movement tray kit always felt like one of the better priced 'accessory' items from GeeDub.
Hrm, looks like they're $6.50 more than when I last bought some (like 1-2 years ago). I may have just been priced out, just in time too
If things are swapping over to round bases + square trays with round slots, I look forward to all those MDF peeps laser cutting me some trays. I mean ... if I play 9E. And stuff. *makes a pouty face, kicks a random square base*
Chopxsticks wrote: What is the reason with removing Deathknell Watch and the End times books, and to an extent the Starter boxes?? They just going to throw it in the streets and burn it? The End times books seemed like good reads, why would you not want those around anymore? They want anything with old rules gone?
I can't answer for the reason, but you're not far off with what'll happen to the stock. They will destroy it.
My mate's uncle used to work at GW, and when they threw stock out, he'd keep some of it bring it home lol.
, but I called this one weeks ago. Check my post history if you can be bothered trawling through all that.
