74 dollar book is NOT a big rule book. its the campaign setting. new warscrolls, new scenarios, full background, some new rules (but NO balancing rules). takes the place in official gw display rack of whfb 8 rulebook. It is different than the AoS box set 96 page book. different. its like a campaign setting for a rpg basically, with background and stats and adventures. but adventures for miniatures called scenarios.
dice cups for $40:
sculpted painted cast resin with fancy stuff on them geared to each faction. set of 8 special dice. symbols on ONES for whatever reason
new miniatures sets coming out:
different sprues of the same guys from AoS set, with weapon options like swords and 2-h hammers. arrows/bows.
clamshell is the main good guy from the AoS set, but on foot instead.
new terrain: balefull realmgates
Added July 2
New names, compiled by Freytag93
Order:
Sigmar and his Stormcast Eternals -new
Duardin - dwarfs
Red Slayers - regular humans: empire, bretonnia, etc. (not clear on this)
Aelf - combined elves: dark, high, and wood
Seraphon - lizardmen
Chaos:
Mortal followers (if a new name, not clear) - WoC Bray herds (also not clear on if new name. I am inclined to say it will stay beastmen) - beastmen
Skaven/ratmen - skaven (duh)
Daemon hosts - DoC
Death:
Not specified, though there are some pretty "inspired" names included such as deathmages, deathrattlers, and dead walkers (cause those of course aren't anything related to zombies - combination of VoC and Tomb Kings
Destruction:
Orruks - Orks
Grots - Goblins
Ogors - OK
At long last, the rumors on the WFB 9th Edition starter box are starting to arrive. Get on in here!
First of all, multiple folks around the world have been reporting hushed hints from GW retail staff to “Come into the store on April 24th for SOMETHiNG BIG”.
The exact verbiage varies, but that date of April 24th was always consistant.
Then this showed up!
Warhammer 9th Starter Set Contents
via Tozudos a Deices (Spanish)
“Saludos a todos.
Vuelvo a vosotros de mi letargo para informaros de algo que me ha llegado de fuentes muy fiables. Ya sabéis que si veis que hay actualización en Tozudos a Dieces es porque tenemos una bomba.
Contenido de la caja de novena edición. 24 de abril en prepedidos. Todas las minis son nuevas y traen las reglas dentro, así como peanas redondas.
-Caos: dos personajes, uno exclusivo; cinco miniaturas de caballería, diez guerreros del Caos, d5 demonios del Caos, algún tipo de monstruo del Caos.
-Luz: dos personajes, 10 guerreros sagrados, 10 guerreros de la nueva facción, cinco caballeros sagrados a caballo, máquina de guerra enana.
En la facción de las luz las minis se parecerán a caballeros del grial.
Esta es la información que podemos traeros. Seguiremos informando.”
Translation via google: (not the greatest)
“Greetings to all.
Back to you from my slumber to inform you of something that has come to me from very reliable sources. You know that if you see no update Stubborn to Dieces is because we have a bomb.
Contents of the box ninth edition. April 24 in pre-ordering. All minis are new and bring the rules into and round bases.
-Chaos: Two characters, one exclusive; five miniatures cavalry, ten warriors of Chaos, Chaos demons d5, some kind of monster Chaos.
-Light: Two characters 10 holy warriors 10 warriors of the new faction, five holy knights on horseback, dwarf war machine.
In light faction minis grail knights appear.
This is the information that we can bring you. Keep you informed.”
WFB 9th Roundup
You will also this is yet another rumorsource saying WFB 9th is moving to round bases… Also note that from other sources, there will be multiple WFB 9th products, rulebook, a new starter, and possibly a skirmish based set/game. Its unknown which product this one is describing.
Added 22-05-2015:
– WFB 9th is simply called “Warhammer’
– New rules provide for two games in one:
a) A small scale game with few models
b) A full scale game like the previous WFB
– The small scale game has heavy limitations on models that can be used such as exotic units and units that would be unbalancing at a small scale.
– Triple book format with rules and history split up ~Editor, this sounds like the current 40K format
– Round bases
– June 20th
– 6 Factions
– Game picks up after the End Times series, taking it into account.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Look at those Sigmarite war machines, look at that dragon demigryphon lizard thing, look at those stellar wings, look at the kick ass sorceror
lord_blackfang wrote: Seems like a good spot to point out that Mantic has announced they will release tournament-legal Kings of War lists for all GW Fantasy factions.
Classic
Are those listings free and when will they release them?
- We will be putting out tournament legal army lists for lots of non-Mantic armies. These will not be canon in KoW IP but they’ll be great to battle with and against. I think a book detailing say 10 new armies would make an excellent addition – with the armies being either historical or fantasy themed (this is where the Twilight Kin will live until we get them their own Mantic sculpts and a full army – at which point we move them into the main canon). This will allow people with existing armies a chance to play KoW – which is good for us all when we are trying to find an opponent. I cannot recall many other miniature companies that actively promote the use of other manufacturer’s figures in their game, and I think a good example of mantic putting the game before other considerations. These armies will be the perfect place to fit a lot of people’s existing Kingdoms of Men armies, with plenty of options available.
However, mantic do make their army lists free online as well as in book.
I imagine the way it will work is, you won't see a 'Bretonnian' list. But what you will see is a "Arthurian Camelot" army list, that happens to have 4 different variants of Knight Units, archers and peasant infantry...
Traditionally, all KoW playing materials were free.
From a recent KoW Kickstarter update:
We will be putting out tournament legal army lists for lots of non-Mantic armies. These will not be canon in KoW IP but they’ll be great to battle with and against. I think a book detailing say 10 new armies would make an excellent addition – with the armies being either historical or fantasy themed (this is where the Twilight Kin will live until we get them their own Mantic sculpts and a full army – at which point we move them into the main canon). This will allow people with existing armies a chance to play KoW – which is good for us all when we are trying to find an opponent. I cannot recall many other miniature companies that actively promote the use of other manufacturer’s figures in their game, and I think a good example of mantic putting the game before other considerations. These armies will be the perfect place to fit a lot of people’s existing Kingdoms of Men armies, with plenty of options available.
Mantic's volunteer Rules Committee have already confirmed Lizzies, Ratmen and WoC as part of that.
GW should adopt something like that. I mean you could still buy the fluffy with all the nice pictures books if you wanted too but for gaming purposes free PDF's with the rules should be the way to go for a game in clear decline.
As I had just started to collect stuff for a Fantasy army (from Perry and Victrix....), I'm in an ideal position no matter how the wind blows; all of 4 models are on bases at present, so whatever my club does and what the big names offer, I can adapt, should I so choose.
Still absolute gak for everyone else, and even myself to a large extent (I liked the ideas behind WFB, and in the wake of 7th 40k, the rules were a damned slight better). Absolutely fascinating though to see GW basically give up on a product line.
We will be putting out tournament legal army lists for lots of non-Mantic armies. These will not be canon in KoW IP but they’ll be great to battle with and against. I think a book detailing say 10 new armies would make an excellent addition – with the armies being either historical or fantasy themed (this is where the Twilight Kin will live until we get them their own Mantic sculpts and a full army – at which point we move them into the main canon). This will allow people with existing armies a chance to play KoW – which is good for us all when we are trying to find an opponent. I cannot recall many other miniature companies that actively promote the use of other manufacturer’s figures in their game, and I think a good example of mantic putting the game before other considerations. These armies will be the perfect place to fit a lot of people’s existing Kingdoms of Men armies, with plenty of options available.
Mantic's volunteer Rules Committee have already confirmed Lizzies, Ratmen and WoC as part of that.
I'm on the rules committee and can confirm that the lists will most likely be a refresh and expansion of the currently available fan lists (most of which were written by the head of the rules committee):
So, if you'd like to get started, grab a list and the current free download of the rules and you're sorted. Rules and army lists are free and always will be.
Feedback and anything you'd like to see can be posted on the forums, or you can pm me/ post in the dakka mantic subforum.
I don't really mind what is happening with 9th since I lost interest with warhammer as a game a while ago (7th edition broken army books took the fun out of it), sounds like they are going for more of a 40k style game with warbands of minis picking over the scraps of the shattered world.
If they do it well and create a good modern ruleset it could end up being an excellent new version of mordheim in terms of overall feel.
Apparently the Grail kn ights are holy warriors from the remenant Empire, not Brets, according to the rfumourmill on Warseer.
They apparently operate from a surviving Empire city in the bubbleverse. What Warseer hasnt picked up on yet is wehich city. According to d4chan Averheim is the last standing Empire city, and could be the capital of the bubble.
So they spend £1000's making moulds for the end times stuff for it to become obsolete, something's not right there. I guess 8th edition will become online only. This means I'll have even less reason to go into a GW store.
Or it could just be that GW themselves have effectively killed all interest in WFB?
Yeah, after the frustration and anger, all that will be left is apathy...and in that regard WHFB won't be much different than any other niche game with its few loyal fans.
It seems like there is more support for the idea of switching to round bases. Honestly, it doesn't seem like there is much left of the old WHFB in this new WHFB EXTREME, so they might as well go all-the-way with these changes.
Accolade wrote: Yeah, after the frustration and anger, all that will be left is apathy...and in that regard WHFB won't be much different than any other niche game with its few loyal fans.
It seems like there is more support for the idea of switching to round bases. Honestly, it doesn't seem like there is much left of the old WHFB in this new WHFB EXTREME, so they might as well go all-the-way with these changes.
From all the rumors I'm seeing about the new edition, from GeeDub's justification for the changes, and from the few people I've heard getting excited about 9E, WHFB is absolutely geared at tapping the 40k Young'uns market - otherwise known as The Dub's favorite demographic, much to the detriment of everything they've done in the last 10-ish years.
I for one look forward to continuing to play pre-End Times 8E. That and Infinity. Also Mordheim. Possibly Malifaux.
I take full credit for predicting that Warhammer fantasy would switch to round bases.
Ok, I didn't predict that bit, but my analysis (which was posted on another thread weeks ago) predicted the following:
1) Brand new skirmish game with at least 6 factions, with the possibility of including a brand new faction to drum up interest. GW may be a lot of things, but they're not blind, and they will have seen how similar games from other companies are performing.
2) A half decent starter box set to suck people in (well obviously ) with the difference being that they're going for a 40k style low model count, as the high cost of Fantasy was too prohibitive. This is why we're getting round bases. Plus having your two main games use the same bases will save money on production.
3) And this is the most important point IMO. GW have all but confirmed that the target market is teenagers. Anybody over the age of 15 can go hang. Evidence? Look at how GW have changed their paint products the last 5 years. Everything is geared up to Basecoat, devlin mud all over, highlight, and easy bases with the textured paints. Throw snap fit models into the mix, and it's clear GW want teenagers getting into the game with the minimum amount of fuss, but still having models with a decent paint job. Perfect for the xbox generation.
I'm not miffed by it. It'll be interesting if they go round base. That's a lot of models they pull to repackage or simply stop producing.
That said the only thing about round base that would make me sad is it might slide into the same niche that Wrath of Kings is filling for me and it'll be hard to generate interest in WoK if Fantasy from GW is in play in a reasonable way.
Either way I'm looking forward to it. Maybe fantasy will actually be played locally even if it's a different game than currently exists.
lord_blackfang wrote: Seems like a good spot to point out that Mantic has announced they will release tournament-legal Kings of War lists for all GW Fantasy factions.
Called it. If GW go ahead with this Faction-blob round base shenanigan plan then Mantic will just take everyone and giggle. Sure, you can use your existing army and miniatures. We don't mind. And when people want to buy new stuff? They'll buy mantic.
lol saying there aiming for 15yr olds is probably aiming a little high. Most of the fluff recently falls into the pre teen quality band of power rangers etc.
I am expecting the new holy warriors to have massive shoulder pads and not a single flat surface that is not covered in bling.
I remain hopeful that 9th edition will be a positive turn for the game. The biggest factor of concern for me is whether GW will address the army size creep of the game and thus render the game more affordable.
Re-basing all of my models would be irritating, but it would not be the end of the world. I'm similarly prepared to accept some models/units disappear. If these things happen without a general reduction in the cost of playing WFB, my desire to address them by paying for more GW product will be pretty much non-existent.
There was a collective screech of "NOOOOOOO" from the pile of painted ratmen I'm trying to finish up as they heard the sound of things being round based. Yikes.
I am curious to see what everything looks like in the box.
Always been a big fan of starter boxes for tabletop games. Feel more like board games with their big boxes of stuff and piles of rules.
Last few starters have been pretty decent in terms of sculpts, variety, and value in my eyes (even if they never get used for their intended purpose).
It's occurred to me that GW might do a War of the rings - models with round bases fitting into square shaped move trays for bigger formations. Perhaps new fantasy won't be purely a skirmish game after all...
Last few starters have been pretty decent in terms of sculpts, variety, and value in my eyes (even if they never get used for their intended purpose).
Indeed! While I may not play WFB at all, if the sculpts are on par with DV and IoB (and hopefully, being round based, more dynamic than than the latter), I may end buying some/all of the minis from the set just to paint if the price is right.
Not everyone. I find their rules uninteresting and prefer my models to be, y'know, MODELS rather than counters to define footprint size. You may as well play KoW with pieces of cardboard cut to appropriate size. I already own plenty of games that do the same thing better and more interestingly and are self contained.
Not everyone. I find their rules uninteresting and prefer my models to be, y'know, MODELS rather than counters to define footprint size. You may as well play KoW with pieces of cardboard cut to appropriate size. I already own plenty of games that do the same thing better and more interestingly and are self contained.
You could do that with every single miniature game that I know of. Just cut the cardboard to the size of the appropriate base, and voilá, instant "models" for every single miniature game in existence.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: It's occurred to me that GW might do a War of the rings - models with round bases fitting into square shaped move trays for bigger formations. Perhaps new fantasy won't be purely a skirmish game after all...
War of the ring would have been an excellent system to move towards. Lots of great things in that rule set.
Not everyone. I find their rules uninteresting and prefer my models to be, y'know, MODELS rather than counters to define footprint size. You may as well play KoW with pieces of cardboard cut to appropriate size. I already own plenty of games that do the same thing better and more interestingly and are self contained.
You could do that with every single miniature game that I know of. Just cut the cardboard to the size of the appropriate base, and voilá, instant "models" for every single miniature game in existence.
Except that WHFB uses TLOS and thus can't be done with chits. You'd need cardboard standees at least. Also, individual cardboard bases would be exceedingly fiddly vs KoW's set units that never shrink.
Not everyone. I find their rules uninteresting and prefer my models to be, y'know, MODELS rather than counters to define footprint size. You may as well play KoW with pieces of cardboard cut to appropriate size. I already own plenty of games that do the same thing better and more interestingly and are self contained.
You could do that with every single miniature game that I know of. Just cut the cardboard to the size of the appropriate base, and voilá, instant "models" for every single miniature game in existence.
Except that WHFB uses TLOS and thus can't be done with chits. You'd need cardboard standees at least. Also, individual cardboard bases would be exceedingly fiddly vs KoW's set units that never shrink.
None of those things prevent the game from being played with cardboard chits.
For starters you just need to record the height of the model you don't need to actually represent it. And the individual cardboard bases could be put inside movement trays just like the real bases are.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: I remain hopeful that 9th edition will be a positive turn for the game. The biggest factor of concern for me is whether GW will address the army size creep of the game and thus render the game more affordable.
Re-basing all of my models would be irritating, but it would not be the end of the world. I'm similarly prepared to accept some models/units disappear. If these things happen without a general reduction in the cost of playing WFB, my desire to address them by paying for more GW product will be pretty much non-existent.
In theory if the game is going to be scaled down you will need a lot less minis so that would make things more accessible for newcomers. In practical therms I see GW alongside with the 9th rising the prices of the boxes and blisters. So you will need less but would have to pay more for it. Win Win for GW.
Is yet to be seen how much GW will reduce the armies and if their skirmish game will actually be able to scale up to massbattles... dont know how many of us will be ok with not using their armies or just using a few regiments with round bases. I can tell you that the game needs to be REALLLY special to capture the momentum here.
None of those things prevent the game from being played with cardboard chits.
For starters you just need to record the height of the model you don't need to actually represent it. And the individual cardboard bases could be put inside movement trays just like the real bases are.
Height, width, and shape are all needed for TLoS, not just height. WHFB doesn't use base area or "magical cylinder" style of LoS.
None of those things prevent the game from being played with cardboard chits.
For starters you just need to record the height of the model you don't need to actually represent it. And the individual cardboard bases could be put inside movement trays just like the real bases are.
Height, width, and shape are all needed for TLoS, not just height. WHFB doesn't use base area or "magical cylinder" style of LoS.
In theory it doesn't, but in practice it does since all bits that usually extrude from the base are supposed to be ignored for LOS purposes, so its perfectly fine to use a "cylinder" with the width of the base and the model height to represent said model.
None of those things prevent the game from being played with cardboard chits.
For starters you just need to record the height of the model you don't need to actually represent it. And the individual cardboard bases could be put inside movement trays just like the real bases are.
Height, width, and shape are all needed for TLoS, not just height. WHFB doesn't use base area or "magical cylinder" style of LoS.
In theory it doesn't, but in practice it does since all bits that usually extrude from the base are supposed to be ignored for LOS purposes, so its perfectly fine to use a "cylinder" with the width of the base and the model height to represent said model.
So...
Yeah, that's "what it has to do with anything in this thread".
Trust me. You don't want to start going into cylinders or any such nonsense for anything outside of skirmish games.
I am actually really interested in this. I love skirmish games (currently playing Coreheim), and I also think the last boxed sets have been pretty cool. If they handle it correctly, it could be awesome. Of course, my opinion would be entirely different if I had any WHFB armies (I sold them loooong ago). I can truly understand all the rage, if rumours are true...
By the way, WHFB has been played using paper/cardboard since... well, since forever. Paperhammer is a well established term
Yeah, that's "what it has to do with anything in this thread".
Trust me. You don't want to start going into cylinders or any such nonsense for anything outside of skirmish games.
I still fail to understand what the silhouette introduced by Infinity has to do with that point, but I'll just chalk it down to your propensity to criticize every single little flaw that you find in Infinity while happily ignoring the huge gaping wholes in that other company.
Also, I've seen a pretty big number of WHFB games being played with just the empty bases on movement trays representing whole units (or monstrous creatures, or chariots, or warmachines), so no, I don't see any problem in going into "cylinders and any such nonsense" for non-skirmish games.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: It's occurred to me that GW might do a War of the rings - models with round bases fitting into square shaped move trays for bigger formations. Perhaps new fantasy won't be purely a skirmish game after all...
War of the ring would have been an excellent system to move towards. Lots of great things in that rule set.
I had the same thought when I heard round bases, and share the same sentiment that this could be a decent thing. We've heard rumblings of something along the lines of WotR style units as well: everything in 9E will be able to skirmish for speed/ease of movement, but units may also be capable of ranking up into various formations for benefits that those bring when the time comes. Is a thought, and I like(d) them trays and how they represented unit strength.
Red Viper wrote:I'm interested.
GW makes great models. Their rules can be fun.
I'm not going to get the starter, but I'll be watching. If they keep charging $50+ for rulebooks though, then I'm out.
Spoiler: $50 rulebooks are probably here to stay, thanks especially to the fewer unified factions of 9E. GeeDub learned over 8E that all us accursed veterans only wanted to buy new single heroes/monsters or small monstrous units for our existing armies, and would grudgingly buy updated armybooks as well. From what we're seeing, 9E is shaping up to be collections of single heroes/monsters or small units ... So the fat hardbacks only make sense.
If the rumours of making the game smaller scale and set in a more steampunk environment are true... I really feel like GW is trying to chase the Warmachine and Hordes crowd. They'd need to have a good ruleset and customer communication more than anything to do that though.
Boss Salvage wrote: Spoiler: $50 rulebooks are probably here to stay, thanks especially to the fewer unified factions of 9E. GeeDub learned over 8E that all us accursed veterans only wanted to buy new single heroes/monsters or small monstrous units for our existing armies, and would grudgingly buy updated armybooks as well. From what we're seeing, 9E is shaping up to be collections of single heroes/monsters or small units ... So the fat hardbacks only make sense.
Probably. A shame.
Maybe they'll at least have the individual rules come with the models like PP does.
Hasn't GW done that with some recent releases? I really don't know. Haven't bought much since the Dark Elf Army book.
You know, I think all the End Times things come with their rules? My Stormfiends did anyway. I also remember hearing that these free rules even come with errors
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the death of Fantasy.
This Bumbleworlds stuff has to go. Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Whoever brought this to the table needs to go back to TSR and ask how well it worked out the first time someone tried this shill gimmick for selling stuff.
On another note, How do I sell all this old stuff? I have ... a pretty good selection.
Ozymandias wrote: Maybe this is all a "New Coke" type marketing scheme. Then, in a couple years, GW rereleases "Warhammer: Classic" and sells millions.
At this point, I think I'd be OK with that...
But if WFB 9E tanks as badly as it appears it might, I think it is gone for good.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: they're going for a 40k style low model count, as the high cost of Fantasy was too prohibitive.
Lol, it's only a "low" model count because they're cramming in physically apoc sized and rules appropriate units into 1000pt+ "normal" games at a previously unheard of cost of $100+ per model. If I want to update my Tau to 7e standards, I need to spend a few hundred to get only a couple models. That's not exactly a non-prohibitive alternative.
Honestly, with the entry cost of WHFB, rules bloat etc etc. I can understand that GW decided to just straight-up reset the whole setting. I even think this is a good idea, however, I assume that GW will still manage to screw it up royally and thus kill fantasy off completely.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: they're going for a 40k style low model count, as the high cost of Fantasy was too prohibitive.
Lol, it's only a "low" model count because they're cramming in physically apoc sized and rules appropriate units into 1000pt+ "normal" games at a previously unheard of cost of $100+ per model. If I want to update my Tau to 7e standards, I need to spend a few hundred to get only a couple models. That's not exactly a non-prohibitive alternative.
I was referring to the old days of two, ten man squads with an HQ choice, or even the low model count of 2nd edition 40k. Those were the days.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kosake wrote: Honestly, with the entry cost of WHFB, rules bloat etc etc. I can understand that GW decided to just straight-up reset the whole setting. I even think this is a good idea, however, I assume that GW will still manage to screw it up royally and thus kill fantasy off completely.
Called it. If GW go ahead with this Faction-blob round base shenanigan plan then Mantic will just take everyone and giggle. Sure, you can use your existing army and miniatures. We don't mind. And when people want to buy new stuff? They'll buy mantic.
Why would you assume they'll buy Mantic? Is GW going to stop releasing superior models?
Called it. If GW go ahead with this Faction-blob round base shenanigan plan then Mantic will just take everyone and giggle. Sure, you can use your existing army and miniatures. We don't mind. And when people want to buy new stuff? They'll buy mantic.
Why would you assume they'll buy Mantic? Is GW going to stop releasing superior models?
And there you have it.
I feel there's 1 company who could have stood up against GW and they gone. but Mantic no.
If Corvus Belli wanted to I think they could do it but I think there happy with infinity.
Even if there rules are superior having figures that make GW 80s look good is not going to get you anywhere.
I loved flintlok but the models sucked so bad I just couldn't continue.
Yep Mantic model quality is massively inferior, to be honest when you look at PP, Infinity, any other good quality series, the pricing is relatively inline when you consider the options of the plastic kits or the general quality. The overall cost can be higher, but separately, little difference. At least the books are generally good quality - I was massively disappointed with the £50 Infinity ruleset books last Xmas as they are poor quality and cheaply done.
I'm cautious about 9th. Im hoping it is something I can really get behind but if it means portions of my Empire and Night Goblin armies become obsolete it's gonna be hard.
SeanDrake wrote: lol saying there aiming for 15yr olds is probably aiming a little high. Most of the fluff recently falls into the pre teen quality band of power rangers etc.
Building a giant cannon to shoot down a moon...yep, could be just another Power Rangers plot.
SeanDrake wrote: lol saying there aiming for 15yr olds is probably aiming a little high. Most of the fluff recently falls into the pre teen quality band of power rangers etc.
Building a giant cannon to shoot down a moon...yep, could be just another Power Rangers plot.
Be fair, Over the top seems to be an entire racial trait of the Skaven. They have a hamster wheel of death for feths sake. But the End Time fluff was fantastic (until the final 1/3 of the last book) and hasn't been childish. The Brettonian King was killed by Festus by using a rusted saw to hack off his head to wave around above his head. That is pretty hardcore.
There, have we filled out the forum bingo card yet?
To get back OT....
I'm genuinely curious about 9th, in a sort of "rubbernecking at a car crash" curious. I just want to sit back and see what the fallout from this endeavour is.
Called it. If GW go ahead with this Faction-blob round base shenanigan plan then Mantic will just take everyone and giggle. Sure, you can use your existing army and miniatures. We don't mind. And when people want to buy new stuff? They'll buy mantic.
Why would you assume they'll buy Mantic? Is GW going to stop releasing superior models?
GW has upped their sculpting quality quite a lot in recent years but a) that has apparently not saved the game and b) the 3 reasons for GW's success in the past where more likely market monopoly/saturation (availability + lack of competition), great fluff and the hobby aspect (modular plastic).
If your comment was aimed at Mantic's often poor sculpts: I agree. But to a lesser degree that can be said about most of WHFB's basic units. At least those that have not been updated in recent years (VC, WoC, Lizards, Bret, Emp). And Mantic seems to do quite well despite the ugliness.
migooo wrote: I have to agree yeah the latest infinity book seemed badly made
I hope the batman one is better ( red hood joker yes!)
It's a soft cover. Less use as a doorstop perhaps, but it's ideally suited to flicking through constantly (which you will need to do when you're first getting into the game).
Also, the contents; I know this is less of an issue to people who happily snap up every new GW codex/army book because of the fancy new cover, slight stat alterations, two new pieces of artwork and all that lovely DLC, but 3rd edition is definitely an improvement over the previous editions. The rule changes were made because they were required, the result of exhaustive play-testing and community feedback, rather than at the behest of a sales team demanding that 20,000 of a new plastic kit must shift from stock.
Well I'm definitely interested in where this ends up. Sounds like there might be a market for my 8th edition rules/army books I'm selling if they depart too far.
migooo wrote: I have to agree yeah the latest infinity book seemed badly made
I hope the batman one is better ( red hood joker yes!)
It's a soft cover. Less use as a doorstop perhaps, but it's ideally suited to flicking through constantly (which you will need to do when you're first getting into the game).
Also, the contents; I know this is less of an issue to people who happily snap up every new GW codex/army book because of the fancy new cover, slight stat alterations, two new pieces of artwork and all that lovely DLC, but 3rd edition is definitely an improvement over the previous editions. The rule changes were made because they were required, the result of exhaustive play-testing and community feedback, rather than at the behest of a sales team demanding that 20,000 of a new plastic kit must shift from stock.
I don't know how in the world you can say that with a straight face.
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: But the End Time fluff was fantastic (until the final 1/3 of the last book) and hasn't been childish.
Depends on what End Times fluff. It's what happens with books made by several authors. Some of the End Times stuff is pretty decent. Some of it screams Waaaaaaaard! from a country mile.
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: But the End Time fluff was fantastic (until the final 1/3 of the last book) and hasn't been childish.
Depends on what End Times fluff. It's what happens with books made by several authors. Some of the End Times stuff is pretty decent. Some of it screams Cruddace! from a country mile.
Ward didn't work on the End Times stuff in all likelihood. He left GW in May 2014 and it is VERY unlikely that they had him working on End Times stuff.
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: But the End Time fluff was fantastic (until the final 1/3 of the last book) and hasn't been childish.
Depends on what End Times fluff. It's what happens with books made by several authors. Some of the End Times stuff is pretty decent. Some of it screams Cruddace! from a country mile.
Ward didn't work on the End Times stuff in all likelihood. He left GW in May 2014 and it is VERY unlikely that they had him working on End Times stuff.
Not trying to pile on Ward (silly thing to do), but didn't he have a decent amount of End Times: Khaine ascribed to him? At least, I thought that was the case.
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: But the End Time fluff was fantastic (until the final 1/3 of the last book) and hasn't been childish.
Depends on what End Times fluff. It's what happens with books made by several authors. Some of the End Times stuff is pretty decent. Some of it screams Cruddace! from a country mile.
Ward didn't work on the End Times stuff in all likelihood. He left GW in May 2014 and it is VERY unlikely that they had him working on End Times stuff.
Not trying to pile on Ward (silly thing to do), but didn't he have a decent amount of End Times: Khaine ascribed to him? At least, I thought that was the case.
Don't know for sure; but that does not really mean anything in the end.
Khaine came out waaaaay after he was gone, and while certainly he could have written large parts of it? It's not unheard of for them to credit/blame writers that have left the company.
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: But the End Time fluff was fantastic (until the final 1/3 of the last book) and hasn't been childish.
Depends on what End Times fluff. It's what happens with books made by several authors. Some of the End Times stuff is pretty decent. Some of it screams Cruddace! from a country mile.
Ward didn't work on the End Times stuff in all likelihood. He left GW in May 2014 and it is VERY unlikely that they had him working on End Times stuff.
Not trying to pile on Ward (silly thing to do), but didn't he have a decent amount of End Times: Khaine ascribed to him? At least, I thought that was the case.
Yep the ward was at fault for et khaine which he stated was the last thing he completely wrote for gw. He also mentioned dribbling on the pages of some of the others as well, if he did not write the moon cannon thing then it was definitely a homage to him.
I'm not sure how any recent gw fluff can be defended it's reached the point where it has become a parody of itself.
It now mostly reads as soulless reiteration of previous fluff or bad fanfic level retcons to shoehorn some crap in.
In the past 5-7 years the only advantage gw had other than being ubiquitous, is the fluff and they have gone out of the way to slaughter that like a sister of battle and bathe in it's blood.
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: But the End Time fluff was fantastic (until the final 1/3 of the last book) and hasn't been childish.
Depends on what End Times fluff. It's what happens with books made by several authors. Some of the End Times stuff is pretty decent. Some of it screams Cruddace! from a country mile.
Ward didn't work on the End Times stuff in all likelihood. He left GW in May 2014 and it is VERY unlikely that they had him working on End Times stuff.
Not trying to pile on Ward (silly thing to do), but didn't he have a decent amount of End Times: Khaine ascribed to him? At least, I thought that was the case.
Don't know for sure; but that does not really mean anything in the end.
Khaine came out waaaaay after he was gone, and while certainly he could have written large parts of it? It's not unheard of for them to credit/blame writers that have left the company.
You really like falling in that Egyptian river don'tcha Kan?
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: But the End Time fluff was fantastic (until the final 1/3 of the last book) and hasn't been childish.
Depends on what End Times fluff. It's what happens with books made by several authors. Some of the End Times stuff is pretty decent. Some of it screams Cruddace! from a country mile.
Ward didn't work on the End Times stuff in all likelihood. He left GW in May 2014 and it is VERY unlikely that they had him working on End Times stuff.
Not trying to pile on Ward (silly thing to do), but didn't he have a decent amount of End Times: Khaine ascribed to him? At least, I thought that was the case.
Don't know for sure; but that does not really mean anything in the end.
Khaine came out waaaaay after he was gone, and while certainly he could have written large parts of it? It's not unheard of for them to credit/blame writers that have left the company.
You really like falling in that Egyptian river don'tcha Kan?
Azreal13 wrote: You get that's irrelevant to the point, right?
You mean the "point" that End Times fluff is Ward's fault despite the fact that the two books he was involved in aren't the ones whose stories are complained about?
Nagash was amazing. That's a credit to Ward if he was involved. I didn't care for Khaine personally but it wasn't bad. It had some interesting moments. I just didn't remember everyone's names/couldn't keep them straight
Azreal13 wrote: You get that's irrelevant to the point, right?
You mean the "point" that End Times fluff is Ward's fault despite the fact that the two books he was involved in aren't the ones whose stories are complained about?
No, simply that "other people were involved" isn't a valid counter to "Ward was involved."
Eh, less than 3 weeks ain't so bad a wait to see what's around the corner for WHFB.
The comments I have are:
- If the skirmish rumours are true, they're still saying that for the most basic game you need to drop at least $200AUD+ on 3 units, a characters and a monster/war machine per force (excluding the starter box, which has always been relatively good value).
- The boxed contents seem tiny compared to the Island of blood which boasted double the infantry, the same amount of characters and equivalent of cavalry/monsters.
- Can only hope that unlike Dark Vengeance, the boxed set doesn't leave the original faction too far behind in the dust with new sculpts (or for too long...).
- Seems a good way to introduce players to all the basic unit types for each side (infantry, cavalry, monsters, warmachines) rather than getting into the minutia like mounted characters and skaven detachments as in Island of Blood.
- The descriptions of the models are still horribly, horribly broad ('holy warriors') when they could just be generic foot knights so they don't look pitifully outmatched by the chaos warriors.
- The description of 'Holy Warriors' almost reminds me of the unreleased Warrior Priest unit (which has an aesthetic more akin to historical dark age monks than anything unique, most likely the reason they were never released).
Rumour I keep seeing is that 9E will be scale from skirmish up to mass battle - or that mass battle will be a different ruleset, or something like that.
Called it. If GW go ahead with this Faction-blob round base shenanigan plan then Mantic will just take everyone and giggle. Sure, you can use your existing army and miniatures. We don't mind. And when people want to buy new stuff? They'll buy mantic.
Why would you assume they'll buy Mantic? Is GW going to stop releasing superior models?
Why do you assume that GW will continue to produce certain models? When your faction gets squatted or reduced to a single unit or two in a combined faction list, the more unique units are likely to go the way of the dodo. So, once Mantic start incorporating these orphaned units in...if you want another? Well, you can either trawl e-bay and pay extortionate prices for certain things. You can beg and plead for sales. Or you can assume GW will continue to produce models that are 'squatted' or forgotten about.
Called it. If GW go ahead with this Faction-blob round base shenanigan plan then Mantic will just take everyone and giggle. Sure, you can use your existing army and miniatures. We don't mind. And when people want to buy new stuff? They'll buy mantic.
Why would you assume they'll buy Mantic? Is GW going to stop releasing superior models?
Why do you assume that GW will continue to produce certain models? When your faction gets squatted or reduced to a single unit or two in a combined faction list, the more unique units are likely to go the way of the dodo. So, once Mantic start incorporating these orphaned units in...if you want another? Well, you can either trawl e-bay and pay extortionate prices for certain things. You can beg and plead for sales. Or you can assume GW will continue to produce models that are 'squatted' or forgotten about.
And besides, with most of the armies to be squatted, that is armies worth of collections rendered useless that mantic will make useful by way of army lists for kings of war.
Warhammer Fantasy Battle is ending as we know it and all 10 people who play it are all here bitching about it. Seriously WFB model sales must be a rounding error of Marine sales. It's clearly not a great market segment for GW.
If 9e is just LotR with Warhammery minis then I'll throw them some cash.
Chairman Aeon wrote: Warhammer Fantasy Battle is ending as we know it and all 10 people who play it are all here bitching about it. Seriously WFB model sales must be a rounding error of Marine sales. It's clearly not a great market segment for GW.
If 9e is just LotR with Warhammery minis then I'll throw them some cash.
Called it. If GW go ahead with this Faction-blob round base shenanigan plan then Mantic will just take everyone and giggle. Sure, you can use your existing army and miniatures. We don't mind. And when people want to buy new stuff? They'll buy mantic.
Why would you assume they'll buy Mantic? Is GW going to stop releasing superior models?
Superior models don't matter if they are incompatible with your existing armies. If I'm going to a brand new game I might as well look for superior rules.
3) And this is the most important point IMO. GW have all but confirmed that the target market is teenagers. Anybody over the age of 15 can go hang. Evidence? Look at how GW have changed their paint products the last 5 years. Everything is geared up to Basecoat, devlin mud all over, highlight, and easy bases with the textured paints. Throw snap fit models into the mix, and it's clear GW want teenagers getting into the game with the minimum amount of fuss, but still having models with a decent paint job. Perfect for the xbox generation.
designing minis to look good without too much difficulty is hardly proof of the game being aimed at teenagers. one could argue it's aimed at people who simply don't have the time to paint minis. or people who'd like to have decent painted minis without spending ages learning how.
3) And this is the most important point IMO. GW have all but confirmed that the target market is teenagers. Anybody over the age of 15 can go hang. Evidence? Look at how GW have changed their paint products the last 5 years. Everything is geared up to Basecoat, devlin mud all over, highlight, and easy bases with the textured paints. Throw snap fit models into the mix, and it's clear GW want teenagers getting into the game with the minimum amount of fuss, but still having models with a decent paint job. Perfect for the xbox generation.
Teenagers are far from the only ones who struggle with painting.
And GW's 3-step system is a handy tool even for those of us who do have more experience. If they hadn't already driven me off to other brands with their constant range and colour changes, I would have been all over the 3-step system... and I've been painting models for more than 25 years now.
Called it. If GW go ahead with this Faction-blob round base shenanigan plan then Mantic will just take everyone and giggle. Sure, you can use your existing army and miniatures. We don't mind. And when people want to buy new stuff? They'll buy mantic.
Why would you assume they'll buy Mantic? Is GW going to stop releasing superior models?
Superior models don't matter if they are incompatible with your existing armies. If I'm going to a brand new game I might as well look for superior rules.
But nobody is forcing us to play 9th. I certainly won't be using it if what I'm hearing is accurate. "More streamlined like 40k, faster game, quicker magic phase. Smaller skirmish like forces( sounds like 40k 2nd but I'm betting it's just the low model count) with a book for mass battles "
Which means probably what they did to 40k third i.e. a complete new game with just a similar name and some of the background copied over.
3) And this is the most important point IMO. GW have all but confirmed that the target market is teenagers. Anybody over the age of 15 can go hang. Evidence? Look at how GW have changed their paint products the last 5 years. Everything is geared up to Basecoat, devlin mud all over, highlight, and easy bases with the textured paints. Throw snap fit models into the mix, and it's clear GW want teenagers getting into the game with the minimum amount of fuss, but still having models with a decent paint job. Perfect for the xbox generation.
designing minis to look good without too much difficulty is hardly proof of the game being aimed at teenagers. one could argue it's aimed at people who simply don't have the time to paint minis. or people who'd like to have decent painted minis without spending ages learning how.
have no idea how old you are or if you were into the hobby in the late 1980s/Early 1990s, but back then, it was a lot tougher. Dodgy paints, hardly any support (apart from the odd article in WD) and metal miniatures which were a complete and utter pain in the rear to assemble if you were new to the hobby.
I wouldn't say the hobby has 'dumbed down' but thanks to technology and wall to wall tutorials, it certainly feels much easier to what we had back then. I'm not knocking the new stuff, it's good, if a little expensive.
3) And this is the most important point IMO. GW have all but confirmed that the target market is teenagers. Anybody over the age of 15 can go hang. Evidence? Look at how GW have changed their paint products the last 5 years. Everything is geared up to Basecoat, devlin mud all over, highlight, and easy bases with the textured paints. Throw snap fit models into the mix, and it's clear GW want teenagers getting into the game with the minimum amount of fuss, but still having models with a decent paint job. Perfect for the xbox generation.
Teenagers are far from the only ones who struggle with painting.
And GW's 3-step system is a handy tool even for those of us who do have more experience. If they hadn't already driven me off to other brands with their constant range and colour changes, I would have been all over the 3-step system... and I've been painting models for more than 25 years now.
I make the same point to you as I did above to the other poster.
Complaining about how much better painting nowadays is seems ridiculous. Yes, today IS easier and you have to thanks the Gods above for that: Base paints, shades, glazes, mediums, highlights, texture paints, heck, even technical paints, are all a bloody God-send.
Better results with less work / time spent IS a good thing, it's not "Perfect for the xbox generation". And no, you still have to practice and work hard to paint, it's not like you can dump a miniature in a bottle of paint and BOOM, done.
*AHEM* On topic: I'm curious to see what changes they make. I'm not a Fantasy player but always had some interest in the minis.
And well, even if changes radically to the bubble-verse, it's not like GW will kick-down your door, gather your fantasy armies and old codecis and throws them into a fire, right? :p
That neck must be bloody sore with a chip that big resting on your shoulder DINLT.
Just because there is more effort to make the hobby accessable, it doesn't mean they are going for a younger audience. And I still use my paints (the few I have left) from 1st Ed 40K days, they are far from awful.
And since you seem to like awful minis that are a pain to put together and paint, you'll have a great time with Mantic. Just stick to the early KoW models, the newer Mantic stuff is far too 'accessable' and 'teenager-aimed'
Why do you assume that GW will continue to produce certain models? When your faction gets squatted or reduced to a single unit or two in a combined faction list, the more unique units are likely to go the way of the dodo. So, once Mantic start incorporating these orphaned units in...if you want another? Well, you can either trawl e-bay and pay extortionate prices for certain things. You can beg and plead for sales. Or you can assume GW will continue to produce models that are 'squatted' or forgotten about.
I'll swing with that assumption, and then if its wrong, I'd still rather add to my army with "exorbitantly priced ebay finds" rather than Mantic's models, as they don't even remotely fit together (I have Empire). I have lots of models from other companies in my Empire army: Raging Heroes, Guild of Harmony, Avatars of War, Gamezone, etc. They all fit pretty well. Because of how Mantic has handled that aesthetic, theirs just don't. Same with their Orcs. Same with their Ogres. Same with the Dwarfs.
Forget the difference in quality (which I do believe is significant, mind you); many of the lines simply don't mesh with the GW lines aesthetically.
In the past 5-7 years the only advantage gw had other than being ubiquitous, is the fluff and they have gone out of the way to slaughter that like a sister of battle and bathe in it's blood.
3) And this is the most important point IMO. GW have all but confirmed that the target market is teenagers. Anybody over the age of 15 can go hang. Evidence? Look at how GW have changed their paint products the last 5 years. Everything is geared up to Basecoat, devlin mud all over, highlight, and easy bases with the textured paints. Throw snap fit models into the mix, and it's clear GW want teenagers getting into the game with the minimum amount of fuss, but still having models with a decent paint job. Perfect for the xbox generation.
I'd take offense in that. I absolutely hate painting. I consider it a busy work that's super annoying and stops me from playing as soon as possible. That's why all of my models are commission-painted. If I would not be able to paint those busy Chinese hands, I would also just dip models into paint, slap some Mud on and call it a day.
To be honest their approach with paints works. Cause I've done more painting than I ever did pre 2012. Since then, my painting has gone from god awful slop-dosh to a pretty acceptable tabletop standard.
Complaining about how much better painting nowadays is seems ridiculous. Yes, today IS easier and you have to thanks the Gods above for that: Base paints, shades, glazes, mediums, highlights, texture paints, heck, even technical paints, are all a bloody God-send.
Better results with less work / time spent IS a good thing, it's not "Perfect for the xbox generation". And no, you still have to practice and work hard to paint, it's not like you can dump a miniature in a bottle of paint and BOOM, done.
*AHEM* On topic: I'm curious to see what changes they make. I'm not a Fantasy player but always had some interest in the minis.
And well, even if changes radically to the bubble-verse, it's not like GW will kick-down your door, gather your fantasy armies and old codecis and throws them into a fire, right? :p
I'm not complaining about the new stuff. I clearly state I like the new stuff. In my opinion, it's easier nowadays compared to 25 ago.
That neck must be bloody sore with a chip that big resting on your shoulder DINLT.
Just because there is more effort to make the hobby accessable, it doesn't mean they are going for a younger audience. And I still use my paints (the few I have left) from 1st Ed 40K days, they are far from awful.
And since you seem to like awful minis that are a pain to put together and paint, you'll have a great time with Mantic. Just stick to the early KoW models, the newer Mantic stuff is far too 'accessable' and 'teenager-aimed'
You could criticise my point without resorting to ad hominem attacks, please.
3) And this is the most important point IMO. GW have all but confirmed that the target market is teenagers. Anybody over the age of 15 can go hang. Evidence? Look at how GW have changed their paint products the last 5 years. Everything is geared up to Basecoat, devlin mud all over, highlight, and easy bases with the textured paints. Throw snap fit models into the mix, and it's clear GW want teenagers getting into the game with the minimum amount of fuss, but still having models with a decent paint job. Perfect for the xbox generation.
I'd take offense in that. I absolutely hate painting. I consider it a busy work that's super annoying and stops me from playing as soon as possible. That's why all of my models are commission-painted. If I would not be able to paint those busy Chinese hands, I would also just dip models into paint, slap some Mud on and call it a day.
...and I'm 36.
You may take offense, but none was intended. I expressed an opinion, you have expressed yours. For the record, I like the new paints.
There's a real leap to make the assertion that assorted new products that have made turning out a decent miniature easier = being aimed at teenagers.
If you'd said aimed at new hobbyists, you might have found some agreement*, but even that doesn't ring true. As had been pointed out, some people struggle with the painting aspect of the hobby far more than others and do so for years. If a product line has tools designed to help them produce decent results then that's great for everyone.
By the by, Reaper and Wargames Foundry (and probably some other paint companies I don't know about) use a triad system with an out of the bottle shadow, mid-tone and highlight. AFAIK they've done this for ages and while it requires a bit more skill to use than base, wash, highlight it's still a mode of simplifying the painting process for people. Neither of these companies could exactly be accused of being aimed at teenagers. Rather, they have put in place a system (should people choose to take advantage of it) that helps provide the framework for decent results.
(*personally I think GW has lost interest in new hobbyists, viewing them as an added bonus if they happen to show up, and is focusing on extracting money from the vets who still buy from them. But that's a whole other discussion... )
1) IN MY OPINION (in bold so there's no misunderstanding ) GW's target market is teenagers. I believe this because most people I see in a GW store are of that age range. Yes, somewhere out there, a 100 year person who has probably just started the hobby and I'm happy to concede that point!
2) I like the new GW paints. I think they're expensive, but I like them. Just in case that was missed, I like the new GW paints.
3) I'm not criticising people for not being good at painting. I'm hardly great myself and if people find the new paints easier, I'm happy for you. Really happy. IN MY OPINION, the hobby was harder in the 1980s.
Glad to clear that up.
Back OT.
I hope 9th has an expansive ruleset so that people can move from skirmish to bigger battles, like what they did with the LOTR stuff. The two systems worked quite well.
Just look at the quality of the "My first mini!" in the Paint sections compared to what we churned out at first ('we' being gamers in our mid 30s, who started at around age 11).
ON Topic - The proposed contents seem pretty solid, and *gasp* BALANCED. That should stop a little bit of pishing and whining, right?!
Bottle wrote: As long as 9th is fun, I think the change will be for the best.
I think this is the one thing that people are really missing here. How about we actually see if the new edition is fun before completely condemning it, hm?
Isnt this a bit early for a new edition release, as in, these are normally later in the year, like June\July?
Also I believe the next BIG release is going to be a single box EP{IC game, I have heard this from quite a few places within GW at warhammer fest and in the shop, but again often stores don't know whats coming.
But the hint about SOMETHING BIG makes me think its a word play and its going to be an epic boxed game.
9th ed is coming I would have thought end of may\mid june.
Still not sold on round bases as actually happening in any way.
Oh man, I would love this. I missed out on Epic/Titan Legions etc for whatever reason. I recall the Imperial Fists and the desert boards used in White Dwarf.
I had an EPIC scale metal Thunderhawk. That was AWESOME.
Do not quote me on this and its as solid as any other rumour, but I have heard it enough times now by folk who would be in a position to know to talk about it.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: 1) IN MY OPINION (in bold so there's no misunderstanding ) GW's target market is teenagers. I believe this because most people I see in a GW store are of that age range.
Really? I haven't met anyone under 30 who could afford this hobby in years. GW seems to agree, given how all the recent releases are rehashes of 80s ideas that only grognards can appreciate.
Rick_1138 wrote:Do not quote me on this and its as solid as any other rumour, but I have heard it enough times now by folk who would be in a position to know to talk about it.
We will see.
Nope, you've pretty much promised it now
H.B.M.C. wrote:These rumours are so vague they might as well say "9th Ed box will come with some miniatures!".
"Or not - we haven't decided! Just keep buying stuff until we do..."
1) IN MY OPINION (in bold so there's no misunderstanding ) GW's target market is teenagers. I believe this because most people I see in a GW store are of that age range. Yes, somewhere out there, a 100 year person who has probably just started the hobby and I'm happy to concede that point!
The only time I've ever seen any teenagers play the game is at an actual GW, and they last a couple weeks before they stop playing. At every FLGS or convention where 40k or WHFB is played, I only see people 20+, who have full time jobs, paint well, convert models, do dioramas, and are usually drunk if the place allows it.
I'd take offense in that. I absolutely hate painting. I consider it a busy work that's super annoying and stops me from playing as soon as possible. That's why all of my models are commission-painted. If I would not be able to paint those busy Chinese hands, I would also just dip models into paint, slap some Mud on and call it a day.
...and I'm 36.
You may take offense, but none was intended. I expressed an opinion, you have expressed yours. For the record, I like the new paints.
Oh, I wasn't offended by it. No worries. I share your opinion. GW is out for teenagers who buy a bit and then lose interest again.
1) IN MY OPINION (in bold so there's no misunderstanding ) GW's target market is teenagers. I believe this because most people I see in a GW store are of that age range. Yes, somewhere out there, a 100 year person who has probably just started the hobby and I'm happy to concede that point!
The only time I've ever seen any teenagers play the game is at an actual GW, and they last a couple weeks before they stop playing. At every FLGS or convention where 40k or WHFB is played, I only see people 20+, who have full time jobs, paint well, convert models, do dioramas, and are usually drunk if the place allows it.
While this may be true it does not change GW's own view of who there target demographic is and I will give you a clue it ain't you or me.
Although I do agree that with the Harlies and rumoured deathwatch they maybe throwing a bone to vets.
Admech I believe are less a vet thing and more a response to a well selling line from forgeworld.
My anecdotal evidence clearly wasn't anecdotal enough. I will depart these boards for 2-3 years, and return only when I've visited every FLGS and GW in Europe, North America, South America, Africa, Asia, and Oceania. Then, I may be permitted to make an opinion on GW's target market.
Seriously, though, I hear what people are saying - it is an expensive hobby for under 30s, FLGS tend to be populated by those in their 20s, and the new paints are good for starters of all ages, but the key question remains: will people buy 9th edition.
I'm lucky because I sold all my Fantasy stuff 2-3 years ago, so I've got a clean slate for this edition. I may be tempted to dive in for old times sake.
1) IN MY OPINION (in bold so there's no misunderstanding ) GW's target market is teenagers. I believe this because most people I see in a GW store are of that age range. Yes, somewhere out there, a 100 year person who has probably just started the hobby and I'm happy to concede that point!
The only time I've ever seen any teenagers play the game is at an actual GW, and they last a couple weeks before they stop playing. At every FLGS or convention where 40k or WHFB is played, I only see people 20+, who have full time jobs, paint well, convert models, do dioramas, and are usually drunk if the place allows it.
While this may be true it does not change GW's own view of who there target demographic is and I will give you a clue it ain't you or me.
Although I do agree that with the Harlies and rumoured deathwatch they maybe throwing a bone to vets.
Admech I believe are less a vet thing and more a response to a well selling line from forgeworld.
Are you saying that GW are NOT interested in targeting balding, middle aged men?
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Spyder68 wrote: Younger kids end up at GW stores as they may not know of other stores or have no way of having a full table and terrain setup in their parents house.
I always saw more people 21+ playing GW games then i did younger kids
I must be unlucky. whenever desperation forced me into a GW store to buy that one pot of paint I forgot from wayland, or the spray undercoat died when it was most needed, the GW store was always packed with kids.
Bottle wrote: As long as 9th is fun, I think the change will be for the best.
I think this is the one thing that people are really missing here. How about we actually see if the new edition is fun before completely condemning it, hm?
Are we all assuming everything in the box will be on round bases or are people just making assumptions and the round bases end up going to the monster or war machine model?
Lou_Cypher wrote: Are we all assuming everything in the box will be on round bases or are people just making assumptions and the round bases end up going to the monster or war machine model?
I think it's pretty much a given that all models will be on round bases.
Yeah, if Ward left in May 2014 and ET Khaine came out in November then he had ample time to write the atrocious fluff in that book before it went off to publishing/distribution. Who else would include a reference to his OC Draigo?
While this may be true it does not change GW's own view of who there target demographic is and I will give you a clue it ain't you or me.
Although I do agree that with the Harlies and rumoured deathwatch they maybe throwing a bone to vets.
Admech I believe are less a vet thing and more a response to a well selling line from forgeworld.
Which kind of by default means it IS appealing to veterans!
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: 1) IN MY OPINION (in bold so there's no misunderstanding ) GW's target market is teenagers. I believe this because most people I see in a GW store are of that age range.
That doesn't mean that teenagers are their target audience, just that teenagers hang around in their stores.
monders wrote: Does anyone else do focus groups in the industry?
Not as such, a lot of companies and authors go to events (shows/tournaments) though and ask people about the hobby.
This. Most other games companies actually communicate with their customers, rather than just issuing missives from their ivory tower.
GW thinks they know who their customers are and what they want, but they don't do any market research, and have been working over the last decade or so to close off any avenue of direct communication with their customers... which means that they're really just guessing. And declining sales volumes over the last few financials would suggest that they're not guessing right.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: 1) IN MY OPINION (in bold so there's no misunderstanding ) GW's target market is teenagers. I believe this because most people I see in a GW store are of that age range.
That doesn't mean that teenagers are their target audience, just that teenagers hang around in their stores.
monders wrote: Does anyone else do focus groups in the industry?
Not as such, a lot of companies and authors go to events (shows/tournaments) though and ask people about the hobby.
This. Most other games companies actually communicate with their customers, rather than just issuing missives from their ivory tower.
GW thinks they know who their customers are and what they want, but they don't do any market research, and have been working over the last decade or so to close off any avenue of direct communication with their customers... which means that they're really just guessing. And declining sales volumes over the last few financials would suggest that they're not guessing right.
This. 100% this. Communication with the customer base has gone downhill in the past 5 years and it''s quite tragic. Even the standard of training for retail staff has gone the same way.
I've known a number of GW managers and the difference in their traning over the years is painfully obvious.
The most recent just wants to sell, sell, sell to the point where his FB posts in the local gaming club's forums seem like he's begging for someone to show up to the weekend events/games which sadly seem to be catered to only sell. Seriously, he tried to hold an in-store tournament...which gave people bonuses for every £10 spent on the day. Literally transformed it into Pay to Win.
The manager before him had a similar hardline sell, sell, sell approach, to the point of just reselling returns that were clearly faulty like there was nothing wrong. This is the manager that largely put me off the hobby, due to the amount of crap he talked and the very deliberate manner in which he would try to push things on people. His sales technique was abusive and I know for a fact he's been brought up on disciplinaries for that twice.
The manager before that was a genuinely good guy - who explained the training they got a number of years ago. Did you know that if someone came in with a car tire and kicked off the policy used to be to take the care tire and reimburse them? It didn't matter so much whether GW sold it or not as customer service and interaction was the priority. I know people will say that these policies would bankrupt a store...but oddly, they didn't. This was the peak of the store's sales, their golden age.
GW lack market research and their attitude of 'we know what you want' really isn't sitting well. They don't go to conventions and events. They don't interact with people outside of a sales perspective. They have no idea of what is going on and their approach to flagging sales is the exact opposite of what people want.
Bottle wrote: As long as 9th is fun, I think the change will be for the best.
I think this is the one thing that people are really missing here. How about we actually see if the new edition is fun before completely condemning it, hm?
monders wrote: Does anyone else do focus groups in the industry?
Not as such, a lot of companies and authors go to events (shows/tournaments) though and ask people about the hobby.
Don't forgeworld events and games-day (warhammer day?) also have similar parts? I don't know I've never been to one.
They have Q/A sessions, where the customers can ask them questions and the designers/authors may answer some questions about that specific subject, but from what I can tell there's no real feedback channel. They don't ask "So where would you like to see WHF go next?"
Pojko wrote:Yeah, if Ward left in May 2014 and ET Khaine came out in November then he had ample time to write the atrocious fluff in that book before it went off to publishing/distribution. Who else would include a reference to his OC Draigo?
Totally agree on the woeful fluff in Khaine. I think Khaine is easily the worst of the End Times books. Nagash and Glottkin were the best but I guess it was because there was still hope that the narrative was going somewhere positive with a decent outcome. Thanquol was a good read but was hard to take seriously with the depiction of some faction's behaviour (Skaven going into Tyranid mode for most of the book, Dwarfs charging out of well defended holds, Lizardmen providing no resistance to the skavenids etc.).
Bottle wrote: As long as 9th is fun, I think the change will be for the best.
I think this is the one thing that people are really missing here. How about we actually see if the new edition is fun before completely condemning it, hm?
Aye, I hear ya!
Rebasing is not my idea of fun though
I am NOT rebasing nearly 25,000 points of models.
Seriously can't believe they are going to do this with Warhammer. Have loads of models too and am not rebasing them. If it does go round base it's fairly obvious how inspiring Warmahordes is to other game designers!
Flashman wrote: Wonder if they'll do a complete clean sweep of models over time. Elves in particular sound like they'll need a total "We're all friends now" revamp.
What elves? They were all at each others throats. Then Khorne and Khaine took turns destroying Naggaroth. Then Malekith ended the civil war. Then Ulthuan caught fire, fell over, and sank. Then Archaon blew up the planet... All in the span of like two or three years.
There aren't any Elves.
Post End Times the word you're looking for is "Eldar." They on the other hand are doing fine.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: 1) IN MY OPINION (in bold so there's no misunderstanding ) GW's target market is teenagers. I believe this because most people I see in a GW store are of that age range.
That doesn't mean that teenagers are their target audience, just that teenagers hang around in their stores.
How about their commercials not featuring anything but teens and pre-teens in them?
How about the statements about grabbing the one birthday and one Christmas from young buyers?
How about hearing it face to face straight from the mouth of the sales manager for Southern Europe?
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: 1) IN MY OPINION (in bold so there's no misunderstanding ) GW's target market is teenagers. I believe this because most people I see in a GW store are of that age range.
That doesn't mean that teenagers are their target audience, just that teenagers hang around in their stores.
How about their commercials not featuring anything but teens and pre-teens in them?
How about the statements about grabbing the one birthday and one Christmas from young buyers?
How about hearing it face to face straight from the mouth of the sales manager for Southern Europe?
This is what I wanted to say
Anyway, back OT. Why o why don't GW include painting guides with their starter sets. I hope the new fantasy starter will have them, but not to include them in dark vengeance or island of blood, was criminal in my view.
THEY'RE the ones ruining this hobby, with their nice paints and easy to assemble miniatures!
Back on topic...
With the direction GW have been going with there ET sculpts, it'll be cook to see some more dynamic horsebacked units like Grail Knights. I just hope the rumour of a two-tiered approach (larger battles and skirmish) are true, as I would like to use the newer toys in a battlegroup. Something I won't be able to do if I stick with 8th (without making own rules etc, and people always seem to get tearful with that for some reason)
Part of me just can't see them doing the whole round base thing. I imagine they will do square base skirmish as you can line dudes up better for combat, plus it won't piss everyone off who splashed out on the end of times stuff.
The issue is this becomes quite difficult:
Sometimes you don't have a dedicated enough group to keep the old rules.
Since you can no longer buy the rules (excluding 2nd hand) you're unlikely to get new players. This becomes harder & harder over time.
With no armies ever getting updates things get stagnant & old.
Every time someone leaves you're unlikely to replace them.
Sticking with 8th will prolong whfb as is, but it will not keep it going forever, liukely you'll see maybe an additional year if you're lucky before it slowly dies out. Remember all those people who said they'd stick with 5thed 40k since allies would ruin everything? Or the ones who said they'd keep playing 7th because of 8th magic & random movement? Sure you may find the 1-off group around who still does but you need to look VERY hard.
daemonish wrote:So they spend £1000's making moulds for the end times stuff for it to become obsolete, something's not right there.
It's the extreme disorientation of the cognitive dissonance between common sense and what GW does. You'll get used to it in time, like the rest of us.
SeanDrake wrote:
I am expecting the new holy warriors to have massive shoulder pads and not a single flat surface that is not covered in bling.
That.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
Re-basing all of my models would be irritating, but it would not be the end of the world.
Not so soon after the last one, anyway.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:It's occurred to me that GW might do a War of the rings - models with round bases fitting into square shaped move trays for bigger formations. Perhaps new fantasy won't be purely a skirmish game after all...
Wasn't there some kind of rumour update that only characters and war machines were going on round bases?
Not everyone. I find their rules uninteresting and prefer my models to be, y'know, MODELS rather than counters to define footprint size. You may as well play KoW with pieces of cardboard cut to appropriate size. I already own plenty of games that do the same thing better and more interestingly and are self contained.
You could do that with every single miniature game that I know of. Just cut the cardboard to the size of the appropriate base, and voilá, instant "models" for every single miniature game in existence.
That. Also, cardboard counters to represent unit footprints beats cardboard counters to represent 40-50 individual wound markers, in my view.
Platuan4th wrote:Except that WHFB uses TLOS and thus can't be done with chits.
Pity that TLOS is one of the most monumentally stupid ideas for a unit-block miniatures wargame, then. (And not so smart for a platoon+ miniatures wargame, either)
Platuan4th wrote:To be fair, KoW has nothing to do with this thread either, yet the Mantic players keep bringing it up in every single Warhams thread they can.
I could bring up Mayhem instead, if you like.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ALEXisAWESOME wrote:But the End Time fluff was fantastic (until the final 1/3 of the last book) and hasn't been childish. The Brettonian King was killed by Festus by using a rusted saw to hack off his head to wave around above his head. That is pretty hardcore.
If you're 14. Maybe even if you're older. To others it can come across as another drop in the bucket of the kind of OTT 'badazz', 'grown-up' grimdarkness that GW uses to appeal to kids. The wargaming equivalent of a 1990's comic book.
treslibras wrote:
GW has upped their sculpting quality quite a lot in recent years but a) that has apparently not saved the game
It's a pity they forgot that all that improved sculpting was still being applied to mass-produced plastic items that players needed to buy a lot of.
Micky wrote:Rumour I keep seeing is that 9E will be scale from skirmish up to mass battle - or that mass battle will be a different ruleset, or something like that.
I've seen that too, but it wasn't a rumour, it was wishlisting.
monders wrote:
ON Topic - The proposed contents seem pretty solid, and *gasp* BALANCED. That should stop a little bit of pishing and whining, right?!
I dunno, you seem to be keeping it up quite well.
Manfred von Drakken wrote:I think this is the one thing that people are really missing here. How about we actually see if the new edition is fun before completely condemning it, hm?
Because the track record isn't good. These days GW's idea of a 'fun' game created from whole cloth is Dreadfleet.
lord_blackfang wrote:Really? I haven't met anyone under 30 who could afford this hobby in years.
Well, you're forgetting about these things kids have called 'parents'. But otherwise, that's the problem, ain't it? Especially with what Lockark says:
Lockark wrote:I would argue even gwdoesn't know who they are marketing too. No market research remember?
The Division Of Joy wrote:THEY'RE the ones ruining this hobby, with their nice paints and easy to assemble miniatures!
Nope, it's GW ruining it by imagining the kidz love their stuff, while being egged on by fanboys with no pecuniary self-control.
The issue is this becomes quite difficult:
Sometimes you don't have a dedicated enough group to keep the old rules.
Since you can no longer buy the rules (excluding 2nd hand) you're unlikely to get new players. This becomes harder & harder over time.
With no armies ever getting updates things get stagnant & old. Every time someone leaves you're unlikely to replace them.
The bolded part is the misapprehension of most GW fans: 'support' means 'constantly releasing things. Things to buy. Things to churn.' A game with available rules, minis and opponents is nothing without the institutionalised conveyor belt.
I've been talking to my local GW manager, and he said, he had heard from someone at Warhammer World that there wouldn't be round bases fully in fantasy, but they may be used for some units like nowadys with fanatics and mangler squigs. He said it would be near the end of the month or eldar in 40k may be before it. Fantasy may also be more, well, fantastical instead of historical, i.e. more knightly looking knights instead of germanic stuff for empire etc.
ON Topic - The proposed contents seem pretty solid, and *gasp* BALANCED. That should stop a little bit of pishing and whining, right?!
Vermis: I dunno, you seem to be keeping it up quite well.
I'm not clear on how you've reached that conclusion from one throw away comment, but I see you had a LOT of witty zingers to fire back into the discussion so I'll just assume my comment got caught up in them
Lou_Cypher wrote: Are we all assuming everything in the box will be on round bases or are people just making assumptions and the round bases end up going to the monster or war machine model?
I think it's pretty much a given that all models will be on round bases.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: 1) IN MY OPINION (in bold so there's no misunderstanding ) GW's target market is teenagers. I believe this because most people I see in a GW store are of that age range.
That doesn't mean that teenagers are their target audience, just that teenagers hang around in their stores.
How about their commercials not featuring anything but teens and pre-teens in them?
How about the statements about grabbing the one birthday and one Christmas from young buyers?
How about hearing it face to face straight from the mouth of the sales manager for Southern Europe?
Indeed, particularly when the damn books have had "for ages 14 and over" and has done since '87 in my experience. That is not to say that older than teenager is not targeted either, just so long as you have the monies.
I know this because I was Eleventeen myself at the time.
Lou_Cypher wrote: Are we all assuming everything in the box will be on round bases or are people just making assumptions and the round bases end up going to the monster or war machine model?
I think it's pretty much a given that all models will be on round bases.
On what grounds sir?
I'll take that bet any day of the week
On the grounds that somebody on Dakka said it, so that carries a lot of water with me
I've just checked my wallet and all that's in it is 17 pence, a maxed out credit card, some fluff, and a bus ticket, so that's my bet.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: 1) IN MY OPINION (in bold so there's no misunderstanding ) GW's target market is teenagers. I believe this because most people I see in a GW store are of that age range.
That doesn't mean that teenagers are their target audience, just that teenagers hang around in their stores.
How about their commercials not featuring anything but teens and pre-teens in them? How about the statements about grabbing the one birthday and one Christmas from young buyers? How about hearing it face to face straight from the mouth of the sales manager for Southern Europe?
Indeed, particularly when the damn books have had "for ages 14 and over" and has done since '87 in my experience. That is not to say that older than teenager is not targeted either, just so long as you have the monies.
I know this because I was Eleventeen myself at the time.
I don't know how much it's changed over the years but my Epic 40k boxed set says 12 years to adult. My other boxed sets are packed away so I'm not sure what they say.
Lou_Cypher wrote: Are we all assuming everything in the box will be on round bases or are people just making assumptions and the round bases end up going to the monster or war machine model?
I think it's pretty much a given that all models will be on round bases.
On what grounds sir?
I'll take that bet any day of the week
On the grounds that somebody on Dakka said it, so that carries a lot of water with me
I've just checked my wallet and all that's in it is 17 pence, a maxed out credit card, some fluff, and a bus ticket, so that's my bet.
How about this, when Round bases don't become standard you change your profile pick to a meme of my choice.
I think round bases will become a thing simply from the perspective that GW wants to emulate 40k in any way it feels may draw in more customers to WHFB-Extreme. They don't really understand their customer's interest in a game (since they didn't try to actually figure out why WHFB was struggling, and instead blew it up), and so the thought could be as simple as:
Reports show 40k is still the biggest game, but some heretical game called "Warmackerel and Horns" is etching out sales of other skirmish tabletop games. We've noticed that these games both use circular bases, so it seems prudent to move WHFB-Extreme in the the same direction.
Have we consulted our customers? [whole board bursts out laughing]
I hate repeating myself, but again WFB is NOT, i repeat, NOT going round bases, I heard this today, it has been rubbished by someone from the studio. I also heard that there may be 3 forms of WFB in one book: Skirmish, Herohammer, and what we know now. And personally GW aren't dumb to force all the players to rebase their models. There would be too much outrage and also it would cost more in lost sales of people leaving the hobby, than people buying the new bases to rebase the minis.
It does? I thought GW just dropped boulders on every single bit of WHFB fluff
And then they blew up the fluff, and the boulders for good measure!
In all seriousness though, it's an interesting time for WHFB, if you can still call it that. I think the next few months will sort out a lot of the rumors swirling around, and not for the better. Every new development has confirmed the worst of the rumors, and then some. I have my doubts about the success of "9th Edition."
Left Hand of the Pheonix wrote: I hate repeating myself, but again WFB is NOT, i repeat, NOT going round bases, I heard this today, it has been rubbished by someone from the studio. I also heard that there may be 3 forms of WFB in one book: Skirmish, Herohammer, and what we know now. And personally GW aren't dumb to force all the players to rebase their models. There would be too much outrage and also it would cost more in lost sales of people leaving the hobby, than people buying the new bases to rebase the minis.
So can we confirm you as a rumor-monger that this will NOT happen? I'm sorry, but there have been other rumor mongers (much more credible than BOLS) that have commented on the possibility of round bases, so you will have to excuse me if I do not simply stop thinking this is a possibility because you were so strained to have to repeat yourself.
Obviously, I could be wrong, but it's your word against others. Considering that this new game seems to only somewhat resemble WHFB in its current version, I would not be all that surprised about round bases becoming a thing.
It does? I thought GW just dropped boulders on every single bit of WHFB fluff
And then they blew up the fluff, and the boulders for good measure!
In all seriousness though, it's an interesting time for WHFB, if you can still call it that. I think the next few months will sort out a lot of the rumors swirling around, and not for the better. Every new development has confirmed the worst of the rumors, and then some. I have my doubts about the success of "9th Edition."
I'm keeping my mind open as this goes on, I have no investment in WHFB currently. However, if this game is radically different and basically wipes out the old WHFB, I would be cautious about getting into the game since its designers appeared so comfortable to wipe it out once before.
In the past 5-7 years the only advantage gw had other than being ubiquitous, is the fluff and they have gone out of the way to slaughter that like a sister of battle and bathe in it's blood.
In the past 5-7 years the only advantage gw had other than being ubiquitous, is the fluff and they have gone out of the way to slaughter that like a sister of battle and bathe in it's blood.
Well, according to GW's fluff, slaughtering Sisters of Battle and bathing in their blood gives you super powers, so perhaps they have a secret plan going on...
Left Hand of the Pheonix wrote: I hate repeating myself, but again WFB is NOT, i repeat, NOT going round bases, I heard this today, it has been rubbished by someone from the studio. I also heard that there may be 3 forms of WFB in one book: Skirmish, Herohammer, and what we know now. And personally GW aren't dumb to force all the players to rebase their models. There would be too much outrage and also it would cost more in lost sales of people leaving the hobby, than people buying the new bases to rebase the minis.
So can we confirm you as a rumor-monger that this will NOT happen? I'm sorry, but there have been other rumor mongers (much more credible than BOLS) that have commented on the possibility of round bases, so you will have to excuse me if I do not simply stop thinking this is a possibility because you were so strained to have to repeat yourself.
Link some.
Seriously. Most of the nonsense about round bases was based upon two items shown in the End Times material(Screaming Bell and Furnace) getting mounted upon round bases for promotional shots.
They were not even part of the Studio Army, but rather a White Dwarf member's personal army.
There were comments about people thinking the new Khorne crazies mounted on Round Bases, but that got debunked pretty quickly as it was the angle of the photo and the faux mist in the shots.
Left Hand of the Pheonix wrote: I hate repeating myself, but again WFB is NOT, i repeat, NOT going round bases, I heard this today, it has been rubbished by someone from the studio. I also heard that there may be 3 forms of WFB in one book: Skirmish, Herohammer, and what we know now. And personally GW aren't dumb to force all the players to rebase their models. There would be too much outrage and also it would cost more in lost sales of people leaving the hobby, than people buying the new bases to rebase the minis.
So can we confirm you as a rumor-monger that this will NOT happen? I'm sorry, but there have been other rumor mongers (much more credible than BOLS) that have commented on the possibility of round bases, so you will have to excuse me if I do not simply stop thinking this is a possibility because you were so strained to have to repeat yourself.
Link some.
Seriously. Most of the nonsense about round bases was based upon two items shown in the End Times material(Screaming Bell and Furnace) getting mounted upon round bases for promotional shots.
They were not even part of the Studio Army, but rather a White Dwarf member's personal army.
There were comments about people thinking the new Khorne crazies mounted on Round Bases, but that got debunked pretty quickly as it was the angle of the photo and the faux mist in the shots.
You won't stop with irrelevant points will ya?
The fact that those are from the personal army of a member of the studio is quite telling.
Left Hand of the Pheonix wrote: I hate repeating myself, but again WFB is NOT, i repeat, NOT going round bases, I heard this today, it has been rubbished by someone from the studio. I also heard that there may be 3 forms of WFB in one book: Skirmish, Herohammer, and what we know now. And personally GW aren't dumb to force all the players to rebase their models. There would be too much outrage and also it would cost more in lost sales of people leaving the hobby, than people buying the new bases to rebase the minis.
So can we confirm you as a rumor-monger that this will NOT happen? I'm sorry, but there have been other rumor mongers (much more credible than BOLS) that have commented on the possibility of round bases, so you will have to excuse me if I do not simply stop thinking this is a possibility because you were so strained to have to repeat yourself.
Link some.
Seriously. Most of the nonsense about round bases was based upon two items shown in the End Times material(Screaming Bell and Furnace) getting mounted upon round bases for promotional shots.
They were not even part of the Studio Army, but rather a White Dwarf member's personal army.
There were comments about people thinking the new Khorne crazies mounted on Round Bases, but that got debunked pretty quickly as it was the angle of the photo and the faux mist in the shots.
You won't stop with irrelevant points will ya?
The fact that those are from the personal army of a member of the studio is quite telling.
A White Dwarf staffer is now part of the Studio? That's new.
And it really isn't "quite telling" of anything. You can go back as far as 6th edition to see members of the Studio(NOT White Dwarf or Warhammer World staffers) mounting things like the Dark Elf Reaper Bolt Thrower on 60mm round bases.
A White Dwarf staffer is now part of the Studio? That's new.
I have no words...
And it really isn't "quite telling" of anything. You can go back as far as 6th edition to see members of the Studio(NOT White Dwarf or Warhammer World staffers) mounting things like the Dark Elf Reaper Bolt Thrower on 60mm round bases.
Which had very little effect on the game. So tell me oh Kanny Kan Kan Kan, why would 2 things, which have to be placed in units to move. Units which are in square blocks, so they form neatly around them, be on oval bases? Occam's razor would suggest that said person who owns them had either been doing some playtesting (one would hope GW has done extensive playtesting for such a radical change in the game) and/or has this army specifically built for 9th.
Because, you know, working for White Dwarf in the studio would kinda give someone the inside track on the whole base situation...
A White Dwarf staffer is now part of the Studio? That's new.
I have no words...
Apparently you do. So stop with the meme crap and start using your words.
And it really isn't "quite telling" of anything. You can go back as far as 6th edition to see members of the Studio(NOT White Dwarf or Warhammer World staffers) mounting things like the Dark Elf Reaper Bolt Thrower on 60mm round bases.
Which had very little effect on the game. So tell me oh Kanny Kan Kan Kan, why would 2 things, which have to be placed in units to move. Units which are in square blocks, so they form neatly around them, be on oval bases? Occam's razor would suggest that said person who owns them had either been doing some playtesting (one would hope GW has done extensive playtesting for such a radical change in the game) and/or has this army specifically built for 9th.
Because, you know, working for White Dwarf in the studio would kinda give someone the inside track on the whole base situation...
Maybe they liked the model being on an oval base more than on the itty bitty base it comes with?
Because that was the base they had it on. A Knight base.
And it's not like it is exceedingly difficult to magnetize models to bases for photo shoots. Because that was the only time you saw that particular base being used, in photos where it wasn't surrounded by Skaven.
Alright, I went digging back in the WHFB Rumors thread we had going a little while back. Here are the two quotes/rumors that I feel have solid footing, enough to at least believe that round bases are not ruled out.
I've bolded the bits about round bases for convenience:
1st: A source from (supposedly very good rumorer on) Faeit that came out at the same time as the Darnok rumors popped up in January- had a lot of agreeing information.
via a very solid source on Faeit 212
Let me give you some confirmation:
The setting is being completely overhauled - true.
The concept of a huge chunks of the world in a sea similar to the warp from 40k - true.
Faction reduction to 6 - true
As for how it interacts with the current rules.
9th edition takes place after the sundering that brought about from the End Times.
So for the purposes of compatibility, you can use your 8th edition hardback book, representing a section of the culture that hasn't been horrifically changed by the End Times (Recognizing it will have the same drawbacks of using a dated book that are experienced elsewhere).
You can use End Times rules/concepts, representing a section that is still being torn apart.
You can use the new, post-end times rules to represent what is "current."
All the books (again, with the caveat that older books may not be optimal for the new core rules [but truthfully the core rules aren't changing wildly, like 5th to 6th edition 40k, really more of a tidied up 8th edition with a brand new setting]) are designed to be compatible.
Support will be towards the new book, new setting, however, with End Times being in the past. Viable, but not current.
Expect armies to have fewer units in their core books, which will be heavily focused on the fluff for where they are now, what they've been doing in the centuries immediately following the sundering. This will create a more "balanced" pool as they will be rapidly produced and released (consider a scale even somewhat faster than what we've had for 40k these past few years).
These will then be expanded on with supplements, not intended as money-grabs (as I am sure they will be received by the majority of your readers), but more as guided hands to acknowledge deficiencies in books, or even "global meta" changes. The first time that Games Workshop will be openly acknowledging things that need changes.
These units will typically get white dwarf rules treatments heralding the release in hardback of all of the new units from the previous month(s), for a new setting expansion, which will pit several of the races together (representing a collision).
As these expansions are not permanent in the world, so too will these models not be. They are intended to only get one template injection mold life-run, the same as the books will be printed only once in hardback, then delayed paperback.
They will of course remain legal throughout all of 9th, they will just be more limited eventually, the same as the end time models will not be available forever, the same as XYZ model is no longer available (just with a shorter life span than previous experienced). I mean... you can't get albion models anymore either, but that campaign was before people whined on the internet, so I guess that's why no one's complaining.
This will allow for more new models, as contrary to common belief, the storage and rejuvenation of these templates takes a lot of resources which can be instead dedicated to new ones.
On the topic of round bases. The latest version I saw used round bases, but units had the option of ranking up to receive the typical bonuses. To rank up using round bases, it is intended to use new movement trays which have circular cuts to hold the bases of the appropriate size.
Nothing stops you from (and in many ways you are encouraged to) maintain unit formation the entire game. But you don't have to. Note that throughout all of Warhammer Fantasy, changing width/depth was an option, it's just rarely seen.
So to summarize - you can skirmish, but it's in your interests to rank up for different reasons, like shield walling before a charge for instance. You can alternatively always hold a formation and move the way we're all used to.
----
This will be a very big change. It is not because GW doesn't care about its old players and just wants to attract new ones. It is not to fill a void that will come from the fading of Lord of the Rings (which will remain in stores and be supported for a long time due to the agreement with New Line Cinemas).
It is just a very fresh look at a game that hasn't changed dramatically in how it's played since the dawn of the game and company. It will give everyone the opportunity and hopefully inspiration to do something new, but without invalidating everything from the past. It is opening room for creativity, not closing doors.
Yes, army books will eventually feel too out of date to play, but that's the same with any new edition. And new Army Books will typically allow people to recreate what they're "used to" it just might not be the most effective thing they could do with their new book.
The new faction are basically the opposite of warriors of chaos, but good the way chaos marines are the opposite of space marines but evil (in terms of broad tropes, I really hope this doesn't spawn some kind of debate about the morality of space marines).
Lastly, nothing stops you from just playing 8th, and ignoring 9th the same way some people ignore End Times. Just understand that unlike Storm of Chaos which was post-production looked at as an "alternate timeline" where the clock was turned back to right before it took place for the purposes of the setting, the End Times are real, and 9th will begin where it left off.
2nd: Comment from Harry at the bottom of his post discussing WHFB:
Harry wrote:About six months .... but i first heard about ita good six months before I posted that.
Sometimes it is not all that cryptic .....
I tried to find some of my old posts about this. i have posted about this 6 months, 12 months and 18 months ago. But many of my recent posts have been deleted.???
In the end I had to go find some of what I had said on BOLS Forum where Big red had quoted me from here. (Thanks Red)
OK, here's one for you .....
Chaos Vs "Humans".
Quote Originally Posted by Tozudos a Dieces:
I've just read The fall of Altdorf.
OMG.
At least fluff-wise, nothing's gonna be again the same. It all will change. All.
Harry: You are not wrong there fella. That is what I have been saying.
Quote Originally Posted by Ludaman:
Awesome! Thanks Harry! I may be way off, but that sounds like the contents of a new starter Box to me.
Harry: We have been playing this game together for too many years.
Big Red: So first up, Harry called the End Times and Glottkin by name over 6 months out. So when he says something, you should take it as much more serious than garden variety rumors.
This insinuation of new boxed sets and unified "Human" factions all feeds back into Harry's earlier speculation on GW utterly shattering the game with the End Times series, to produce a very different environment and game on the other side of the series.
After months of absence, the BEST rumormonger out there returns to talk about the End Times of Warhammer Fantasy:
Harry's BACK from the wilderness!
Harry: You may remember last year I was being very vague about some 'radical changes' in a thread about 9th edition.
Back at the start of the year, in one of my first posts of the new year I said this:
I don't think they are trying to destroy it.
I suspect they will be trying their hardest to breath new life into it.
We are not seeing the "End times" for Warhammer just yet.
Did you see what I did there?
The clues are always there fellas.
So I first heard about all this last autumn?
I was told 2014 would be "Year zero" for Warhammer.
Had no idea what that meant at first but if you Google your way to the wikipedia you get this:
The term Year Zero, applied to the takeover of Cambodia in April 1975 by the Khmer Rouge, is an analogy to the Year One of the French Revolutionary Calendar. During the French Revolution, after the abolition of the French monarchy (September 20, 1792), the National Convention instituted a new calendar and declared the beginning of the Year I. The Khmer Rouge takeover of Phnom Penh was rapidly followed by a series of drastic revolutionary de-industrialization policies resulting in a death toll that vastly exceeded that of the French Reign of Terror.
The idea behind Year Zero is that all culture and traditions within a society must be completely destroyed or discarded and a new revolutionary culture must replace it, starting from scratch. All history of a nation or people before Year Zero is deemed largely irrelevant, as it will (as an ideal) be purged and replaced from the ground up.
It was made clear to me that this was what we were talking about for warhammer.
Everything that existed being completely destroyed (or discarded) and something new replacing it from scratch ... purged and replaced from the ground up.
I hinted in various posts that they would be getting rid of the existing timeline, the existing map, etc. (In an effort to soften the blow. )
I am going to get this a bit wrong because I honestly can't remember where I heard it but to confirm the three book rumour .... I did hear the "End times" were going to be spread over three books.
Nagash was the first, followed by Malekith followed by Glotkin
Good luck with that!
...You have to ask yourself .... What will remain of the world as we know it when it has been ravaged in turn by the Undead, the Dark Elves, Skaven, and Chaos?
...Whatever 9th is it will be set in the grimmest, darkest post apocalyptic Warhammer fantasy world yet.
You think I haven't had all the same thoughts being voiced on here?
I can't see them throwing out everything they have done either ... but the only way to own the IP is to loose all the generic Fantasy that other companies can copy ... normal Dwarves, Elves and sure as heck you have to get rid of the historical based human armies ... or you can go build an Empire or Bretonnian army from anyone's miniatures.
I can't see them getting rid of any armies either ... but they can not continue to support all of them so some of them have to go or some get mashed together.
I can't see them wanting to reduce the number of minis you need .... but if it costs too much to complete an army people don't even start an army ...so is it better to sell some minis for a scaled down game or no minis? Is it better to ramp up the Lords and monsters allowance and keep on selling the big kits so an army is 'more tanks and less infantry' and thus less minis and easier to paint .... or sell no minis.
Simple fact is so many people have so many armies now unless they do something drastic with the look of the armies no-one is buying enough minis. The only way to force folks to buy new stuff is if we cannot use our current stuff. Some folks may refuse to buy the new stuff on principal ..... what do they care? They were not buying the stuff anyway as they already had their army. Imagine how badly Fantasy must be selling compared to 40K if anyone even thought about knocking it on the head for even a moment .... they must be thinking .... it can't make things any worse!!! What have we got to loose??? But if they are doing this why even bother completing 8th edition? Why do all the books?
I have been around and around with this in my head ..... the only thing that makes any sense to me at the end of the day is that 8th edition is complete enough and robust enough to endure a bit longer and 9th edition will not be a complete new edition of the rules .... but an alternative background and rules with which to play post End times battles but you still need the core rules to play A bit like all the stuff in Strom of Magic was an add on to the existing rules. The core rules and books will still exist for those that want to remain stuck in the timeline but if you want to be down with the cool kids you really need to buy the new post End Times stuff.
I don't know what else I can add to this.
I don't have all the answers.
But for what its worth .... I think it will be round bases. First said that on here more than 18 months ago .... when someone guessed very close to the mark about WFB becoming a skirmish game.
Now, as I said before I am not full-steam ahead that round bases 100% WILL happen, but I think dismissing them because one poster said "it's not happening!" is equally unwise.
EDIT: went back and spoiler'ed everything to make for easier reading.
Manfred von Drakken wrote:I think this is the one thing that people are really missing here. How about we actually see if the new edition is fun before completely condemning it, hm?
Because the track record isn't good. These days GW's idea of a 'fun' game created from whole cloth is Dreadfleet.
QFT
About all I can add as we hurtle towards the supposed release date of the boxed game is to repeat over and over that I don't know anyone who plays 8E currently that is excited about (this rumored game called) Warhammer 9E. I've heard a distressing amount of excitement for this "fresh start" of a round-based skirmish game, but never has that same voice admitted to enjoying or let alone playing 8E in the same breath. There are always current players alienated out by a new edition - I left 40k after 4E - but this level of attrition is extremely fethed.
based of the completely half arsed way GW is bringing the new 32mm bases into 40K I'm happy to believe that IF round bases do come to 9th edition GW is not going to 'make' anybody rebase anything
now that does not mean people will not want/feel compelled to rebase to match whatever 'new' tend is established (look at all the 25-32mm adapter rings floating around)
players just have be strong and be resit the temptation to do so
Left Hand of the Pheonix wrote: I hate repeating myself, but again WFB is NOT, i repeat, NOT going round bases, I heard this today, it has been rubbished by someone from the studio. I also heard that there may be 3 forms of WFB in one book: Skirmish, Herohammer, and what we know now. And personally GW aren't dumb to force all the players to rebase their models. There would be too much outrage and also it would cost more in lost sales of people leaving the hobby, than people buying the new bases to rebase the minis.
I really want to believe you about the bases, I really do
As for the underlined bit that would be quite nice actually, 3 games in one.
When you wait for a new edition like this is supposed to be, are we seriously supposed to be like an inmate on death row, waiting for a stay of execution?
KInda feeling like that, so in a word, 9th edition is crap. The whole campaign of execution for development is garbage, the basic publicity is garbage, and GW is acting like an ostrich with its head in the sand, with a pack of hyenas circling... In GW world.... everything is fine......
A new game should not feel that way at all. Why do I want to shell out paramount to a $1,000.00 for a feeling like that? Feth them at this point. If I can't get excited about it, then GW can feth off. I have other good games worth my time.
Bases are not even the issue here. Its the overall.... vibe. It honestly sucks from them at this point.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: based of the completely half arsed way GW is bringing the new 32mm bases into 40K I'm happy to believe that IF round bases do come to 9th edition GW is not going to 'make' anybody rebase anything
now that does not mean people will not want/feel compelled to rebase to match whatever 'new' tend is established (look at all the 25-32mm adapter rings floating around)
players just have be strong and be resit the temptation to do so
The problem in WHFB is that base type and size does make more of a difference than in 40k. It's no biggie to change a Space Marine from 25mm to 32mm. Changing a night goblin from 20mm square to 25mm round is a more significant change.
When you wait for a new edition like this is supposed to be, are we seriously supposed to be like an inmate on death row, waiting for a stay of execution?
Yes. At this point myself & many other fantasy players have a WHFB purchasing freeze. Unless I can get something over 50% off I'm not buying. The local game stores are annoyed but they can't blame us. Who wants to buy something that may be invalid in a month?
When you wait for a new edition like this is supposed to be, are we seriously supposed to be like an inmate on death row, waiting for a stay of execution?
KInda feeling like that, so in a word, 9th edition is crap. The whole campaign of execution for development is garbage, the basic publicity is garbage, and GW is acting like an ostrich with its head in the sand, with a pack of hyenas circling... In GW world.... everything is fine......
A new game should not feel that way at all. Why do I want to shell out paramount to a $1,000.00 for a feeling like that? Feth them at this point. If I can't get excited about it, then GW can feth off. I have other good games worth my time.
Bases are not even the issue here. Its the overall.... vibe. It honestly sucks from them at this point.
I'm with you completely. I know it's how GW does things but it's ridiculous in my opinion. Infinity announced they were doing their new edition in like April and it was released in October or November, they explained why they were doing it, we were in the loop. Malifaux had betas for 2nd edition I believe, and do for the expansion books still. GW; we don't hear anything until like 1/2 weeks before and it really annoys me.
Any new edition will have to support existing Army books, I cannot see GW dropping the Army book model as they would have to include a Bestiary and full equipment listings in the basic rulebook; something they have not done since 3rd edition.
That being the case existing units will be useable in whatever form the new universe comes about in.
Whether GW continues to make all units remains to be seen as new Armybooks are released as they will not have unit entries without models anymore.
notprop wrote: Any new edition will have to support existing Army books, I cannot see GW dropping the Army book model as they would have to include a Bestiary and full equipment listings in the basic rulebook; something they have not done since 3rd edition.
False. 6th edition did this as well:
wikipedia wrote:
6th Edition was released in October 2000. All army books were initially replaced by a get-by list in Ravening Hordes, distributed for free.
notprop wrote: Any new edition will have to support existing Army books, I cannot see GW dropping the Army book model as they would have to include a Bestiary and full equipment listings in the basic rulebook; something they have not done since 3rd edition.
That being the case existing units will be useable in whatever form the new universe comes about in.
Whether GW continues to make all units remains to be seen as new Armybooks are released as they will not have unit entries without models anymore.
There's several methods that can be done. The Ravening Hordes option has been used before, but since 2000 GW has been careful not to outright invalidate a stack of books in 1 fell swoop. It's a pita for their own scheduling if nothing else. They've prefered slow obsolescence.
They could for example not bring out "Warhammer 9th" as a direct replacement for 8th, instead bring out a new game, let's call it "Warbubbles" for the sake of it. Warbubbles has no rules directly matching Warhammer, (so old army books are not used) and it's sold alongside. Over the following year they bring out 6 new Warbubbles army books, one per new faction, only including rules support for the models suitable to the new vision and with new model releases. Warhammer 8th withers on the vine with no new support (like the hobbit now) and then gets dropped, along with any models not included in the new books.
MaxT wrote: They could for example not bring out "Warhammer 9th" as a direct replacement for 8th, instead bring out a new game, let's call it "Warbubbles" for the sake of it. Warbubbles has no rules directly matching Warhammer, (so old army books are not used) and it's sold alongside. Over the following year they bring out 6 new Warbubbles army books, one per new faction, only including rules support for the models suitable to the new vision and with new model releases. Warhammer 8th withers on the vine with no new support (like the hobbit now) and then gets dropped, along with any models not included in the new books.
Smart, and supported by GeeDub's detachment from Specialist Games, which IMO have largely done alright for themselves out in the Wilds, with some systems thriving a bit more than others.
With the rumors of Warhammer 30,000 being released this year to allow historic battles in the 40k setting, maybe the goal of 9th edition WHFB (Warhammer Fragmented-Bubbleverse) is to create something new so they can later try to entice the old-timers by releasing a companion game (Warhammer Pre-Fragmented-Bubbleverse) so they can fight historic battles in that setting...
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH GW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU'RE BRINGING BACK THE DWARFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LET'S CELEBRATE THE RETURN OF DWARFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Calm down... It's just a rumour, and what dyou mean you never thought you'd see the day? They aren't officially gone yet, no more than, well, everything is...
When you wait for a new edition like this is supposed to be, are we seriously supposed to be like an inmate on death row, waiting for a stay of execution?
Yes. At this point myself & many other fantasy players have a WHFB purchasing freeze. Unless I can get something over 50% off I'm not buying. The local game stores are annoyed but they can't blame us. Who wants to buy something that may be invalid in a month?
I imagine that this attitude may be prevelant enough to noticeably bring down WHFB sales (just conjecture, but I've heard it from multiple different directions). If that's the case, then I wonder how GW is interpereting the dip in sales. Somehow I doubt they are doing so as they should, for the reasons that you list, but somehow they'll intperperet it as justification for reaming Fantasy...
Vermis wrote: Stay on the meds, Badrukk. Or, possibly, get off the meds.
Korinov wrote: I have the feeling 9th Ravening Hordes will not be free.
Ravening Hordes: Ninth Edition - hardback, £50.
Rules for monsters and monstrous cav - DLC, £30 for each army.
Rules for war machines - DLC, £30 for each army.
Rules for characters - DLC, £30 for each army.
Points costs for all of the above - DLC, £20 for each army.
Custom Font that allows DLC to be read, otherwise it shows up only as boxes in your reader - £30.
Password for Zip files to open them - An additional £20
Citadel Fine-Unlocker - which unlocks your computer after our program locks it up until you pay a ransom - £1000 payable to a Nigerian Prince.
A few hundred smilies and exclamation marks is probably overdoing it; but yeah, I'll also be interested to see just how the dwarfs fared and how their look's changed.
Vermis wrote: A few hundred smilies and exclamation marks is probably overdoing it; but yeah, I'll also be interested to see just how the dwarfs fared and how their look's changed.
Vermis wrote: A few hundred smilies and exclamation marks is probably overdoing it; but yeah, I'll also be interested to see just how the dwarfs fared and how their look's changed.
Vermis wrote: A few hundred smilies and exclamation marks is probably overdoing it; but yeah, I'll also be interested to see just how the dwarfs fared and how their look's changed.
Haight wrote: From Bols, which is really just a round up from other places, but there's a few different sources here.
Rumors are starting to coalesce around the position that what is coming in May - the skirmish level game - is entirely separate from the large scale combat game we all know, which will see its 9th ed update this Summer.
As always with any rumor, take with NaCl, but if the gist of this stuff is true, i think the fantasy community can breathe a rather large sigh of collective relief.
Apologies if this was posted elsewhere, I saw the 9th ed starter contents thread, but honestly, that didn't seem applicable entirely (only one 5 or 6 rumors talks about the starter, and its really not relegated to the contents).
Have at it !
-- Haight
Of course, this opens up tons of questions even if this scant stuff is true.... what about round bases... is that true for skirmish, if so is it true for large scale, ... if the answer to skirmish is "yes" but "no" for large scale, how do you reconcile that as a true bridge from one to the other etc....
I do kind of like the idea of the skirmish game being small bands fighting at the microcosm level within a larger battle. There's lots of opportunity there for campaign play.
So whfb is failing badly, so they launch a second all new game which uses different rules and potentially models while still keeping the current dead weight.
It makes no sense at all, so of course gw may see it as the route to go down.
Still most likely click bait by bols or desperate wish listing by the dozen or so people that still play whfb. Most likely both to be honest.
SeanDrake wrote: So whfb is failing badly, so they launch a second all new game which uses different rules and potentially models while still keeping the current dead weight.
It makes no sense at all, so of course gw may see it as the route to go down.
Still most likely click bait by bols or desperate wish listing by the dozen or so people that still play whfb. Most likely both to be honest.
Remember how many games GW used to run at the same time, and consider the size of the company as it is now compared to back then?
They could run half a dozen different systems sequentially if they wanted to, easily.
I think really this is the ideal solution; a new game, while the existing mass battle system remains for those who still want to collect and play at that scale.
Even with my time-worn cynicism I found it hard to believe that GW would drop the standard game completely. And to do so would have been the most callous act the company had ever committed by some margin.
The rather hilarious thing now is that if it's possible a few weeks away from the biggest release in years, and still there is nothing solid in terms of news about it. I know this policy of secrecy has been going on for a few years now, but I really can't get my head around it. Is it really just to give us forumites something to chat about, do they care about us so much?!
SeanDrake wrote: So whfb is failing badly, so they launch a second all new game which uses different rules and potentially models while still keeping the current dead weight.
It makes no sense at all, so of course gw may see it as the route to go down.
Still most likely click bait by bols or desperate wish listing by the dozen or so people that still play whfb. Most likely both to be honest.
Remember how many games GW used to run at the same time, and consider the size of the company as it is now compared to back then?
They could run half a dozen different systems sequentially if they wanted to, easily.
I think really this is the ideal solution; a new game, while the existing mass battle system remains for those who still want to collect and play at that scale.
Even with my time-worn cynicism I found it hard to believe that GW would drop the standard game completely. And to do so would have been the most callous act the company had ever committed by some margin.
The rather hilarious thing now is that if it's possible a few weeks away from the biggest release in years, and still there is nothing solid in terms of news about it. I know this policy of secrecy has been going on for a few years now, but I really can't get my head around it. Is it really just to give us forumites something to chat about, do they care about us so much?!
I agree with this one million per cent. In the history of the world, I can't think of a single company who would want to hide away a major release, weeks before it comes out. It's sheer madness.
Anyway, here's my prediction about 9th, which I posted on that other thread that got locked:
If this is true, then fantasy is going down the LOTR route - a skirmish game and the bigger battles a la war of the ring.
Round bases for the skirmish game is not a problem for switching to a larger game, because as people know, war of the ring had those move trays for round bases that allowed them to rank up into bigger formations. I'm sure somebody could post a picture of these move trays to demonstrate what I mean.
However, if GW are having two systems within fantasy with two separate rulebooks, then it proves they have learned nothing from the competition. Because any other company would combine them into one book for £40 rather than GW selling each book for £30.
I'm not happy with that, and I'm sure most people would agree.
Finally, to that person who keeps stalking me I don't want to do the bet - I'm backing out because I don't want to lose my Sean avatar
You are right, I am wrong. You win. Waves white flag
Remember how many games GW used to run at the same time, and consider the size of the company as it is now compared to back then?
They could run half a dozen different systems sequentially if they wanted to, easily.
I think really this is the ideal solution; a new game, while the existing mass battle system remains for those who still want to collect and play at that scale.
Even with my time-worn cynicism I found it hard to believe that GW would drop the standard game completely. And to do so would have been the most callous act the company had ever committed by some margin.
Remember how many games GW dumped like a sack full of kittens and a brick because they weren't puking up quite the volumes of cash they desired? You're right in that they could run half a dozen of them - if they wanted to. For the past few years they haven't, which is why I'm not so sure what to make of these new rumours. If they introduce a new game alongside, rather than a replacement, potentially acting as a gateway to 'proper' WHFB, then fair enough; but I'm still cynical about how many players will be funneled through if you still have to buy a wheelbarrowful of minis at GW's prices (heck, I even expect them to bump the prices up again, due to the smaller model count of a skirmish game, despite already being at 'skirmish prices' and then some) and if the gameplay is the same old clunky, micromanaging, unbalancing act. Which one will then receive GW's paranoia and be viewed as 'cannibalising' sales off the other, or off the ol' spakky mariens? It could, as someone already mentioned, be the first step in winding down WHFB.
But I don't think that'll be the most callous act of the company. (Forgotten Spots already...?) In fact I'd see it as a kind of a mercy killing, and enabling some kind or level of diaspora to other deserving mass battle games. People who go for the 'zoom in', focusing on the actions of individual models and kitting out characters with specific combinations of magic items (and possibly confusing it for 'character'; all of which, from where I'm sitting, seems like the majority of WHFB players), will have the more appropriate skirmish game. People who decide they prefer manoeuvre of units and armies instead are already well catered to with several rule sets, without even having to step outside the WHFB setting.
ET was a huge race in rulebooks and I bet GW made a good chunk on money just by selling them. I can see WFB being split into 2 variants for the sake of creating more books and generate sales. Personally I'm ok with 2 games and I think WFB will be a better system overall if people can opt by playing it the way they prefer.
For us with armies we can grab some minis and do some skirmish and for the newcomers they can start up by doing some skirmish warbands. Sure its not going to be cheap because you have to buy 2 books at least ( assuming that these skirmish rules are not included on the 9th).
All in all soon enough we will know if these skirmish rules are any good... random events and crazy magic are things I avoid, I rather prefer traditional hack and slash... lets wait and see.
Thinking about it would be very clever if GW to created some starter sets for some Killteam gaming in 40k, like all simplified rules and stats in one box.
You're really surprised? They just destroyed the planet in a fantasy game; I'd hope they'd take a breather after something like that to gauge the response and give themselves time to reflect. Of course, this is gw and "we don't need/do market research" and all so...
NAVARRO wrote:Thinking about it would be very clever if GW to created some starter sets for some Killteam gaming in 40k, like all simplified rules and stats in one box.
That would be a good idea but also an unlikely one. In GW's eyes, every $50 purchase that you can play with stops you from making a $300 purchase to get what is necessary to play. Supposedly that is why they killed off the smaller games that had buyins of less than a few hundred USD.
It's looking a lot more feasible that there's Fantasy action in spring and summer if you ask me. Isn't Steve the Warboss typically on target more often than he's not ?
Id say most of this is correct from what i'm hearing save for the mini dexes are missing. And as far as I understand the first new fantasy will be summer
but i could be wrong and im only reiterating what ive read on here.
And this is why WHFB is where it's at: a thread about 9E has a post that lists GW's upcoming release schedule to discuss the WHFB content, but near-immediately gets hijacked by 40k.
Wonder if that means we'll get another rules update. 5th edition 5 years, 6th 2 years, 7th 1 year. Seems legit and follows the pattern of greed given that the codex rerevamps are following suit with 2 year life cycles.
Tiny tidbit FWIW: spoke to the owner of an FLGS I sometimes go to when I'm around there, and apparently he was told when he tried to restock the IoB box he'd just sold, that he really didn't have to (peculiar, since it's part of the mandatory basic stock list) and maybe he should hold off on it for a bit.
IMO as good as confirmation of IoB going OOP soon. (not sure if anything like this was posted before; I don't play GW systems anymore and pretty much just skim these threads out of morbid curiosity )
Thunderfrog wrote: I feel like GW misses the mark sooo hard in terms of what it's buyers expect.
I hate their marketing team.
They have a marketing team?
They have the worst kind. Their accountants review what sold for the last month/6 months/cycle/whatever, grab their whips and tell the design team "make more of this thing that sell", or in a few cases "we've got a lot of stock of this item - find a way to clear it out before we have to dump it in a landfill." (the latter seems to happen less and less - no one wants to bring more bad news to the Commisar...I mean, Kirby clone) Those unfortunate items that didn't sell like hotcakes are left to rot, with no indication WHY they didn't sell other than a lost opportunity to sell something else. They don't really have any idea of why what sold or what items they COULD make that would sell and advance/enhance their product line. Its simply "feed the beast" as far as marketing goes.
Wonder if that means we'll get another rules update. 5th edition 5 years, 6th 2 years, 7th 1 year. Seems legit and follows the pattern of greed given that the codex rerevamps are following suit with 2 year life cycles.
In 2016, we'll have a double edition event and be using 11th by May of that year. Y'know, because 6 mos. between 8th & 9th...
In 2016, we'll have a double edition event and be using 11th by May of that year. Y'know, because 6 mos. between 8th & 9th...
Maybe just like Microsoft Office, they can be named after actual years. So Warhammer 2015, 2016, 2017! And then they could give the same treatment to 40k... Warhammer 40,000 2015! And if there's a double release year, Warhamer 40,000 2015.5 Of course, in Germany it would have to be... Warhammer 40.000 2015,5 to really mess us up.
If that list is accurate then the thing that stands out to me is the new 9th edition before a new starterset as per usual. I think that's a good indicator that bases ain't changing as isles of blood will still be sold.
Daston wrote: If that list is accurate then the thing that stands out to me is the new 9th edition before a new starterset as per usual. I think that's a good indicator that bases ain't changing as isles of blood will still be sold.
I doubt it is right. Hell, it got the first item on the list wrong. Looks like a random "take-other-rumours-out-there-and-put-them-into-a-somewhat-plausible-order-hoping-something-sticks"-type of rumour.
If the source can't get a date right two weeks in advance, what hope is there that it'll be right 2+ months in advance?
Steve the Warboss wrote:Games Workshop Q2-3 Schedule
EARLY MAY Codex Eldar (allready confirmed by Lords of War)
Daston wrote: If that list is accurate then the thing that stands out to me is the new 9th edition before a new starterset as per usual. I think that's a good indicator that bases ain't changing as isles of blood will still be sold.
I doubt it is right. Hell, it got the first item on the list wrong. Looks like a random "take-other-rumours-out-there-and-put-them-into-a-somewhat-plausible-order-hoping-something-sticks"-type of rumour.
If the source can't get a date right two weeks in advance, what hope is there that it'll be right 2+ months in advance?
Steve the Warboss wrote:Games Workshop Q2-3 Schedule
EARLY MAY Codex Eldar (allready confirmed by Lords of War)
Well assuming the Eldar release takes 2 to 3 weeks and the 18th being the date preorders go up (rather than the date you can actually get them), I'd guess the Eldar release will go from late April (25th) to early May (2nd, 9th, maybe the 16th).
So assuming that, it wouldn't be incorrect to say early May is Eldar releases while late may is WHFB releases... it's just the START of Eldar releases is late April.
In 2016, we'll have a double edition event and be using 11th by May of that year. Y'know, because 6 mos. between 8th & 9th...
Maybe just like Microsoft Office, they can be named after actual years. So Warhammer 2015, 2016, 2017! And then they could give the same treatment to 40k... Warhammer 40,000 2015! And if there's a double release year, Warhamer 40,000 2015.5 Of course, in Germany it would have to be... Warhammer 40.000 2015,5 to really mess us up.
Or, to be even more like Office, you have to subscribe to the rules. $5.00 a month gets you access to the rulebook, but if you cancel your subscription you have to stop playing.
In 2016, we'll have a double edition event and be using 11th by May of that year. Y'know, because 6 mos. between 8th & 9th...
Maybe just like Microsoft Office, they can be named after actual years. So Warhammer 2015, 2016, 2017! And then they could give the same treatment to 40k... Warhammer 40,000 2015! And if there's a double release year, Warhamer 40,000 2015.5 Of course, in Germany it would have to be... Warhammer 40.000 2015,5 to really mess us up.
Or, to be even more like Office, you have to subscribe to the rules. $5.00 a month gets you access to the rulebook, but if you cancel your subscription you have to stop playing.
Haha. Gw would be plagued with people pulling the porn site maneuver.
1. Sign up for free or 1.00 3 day trial.
2. Download Everything.
3. Cancel Membership before it shows up on the bill and your wife reads it and gets mad and smashes all your Eldar Guardians beneath her stamping rage.
insaniak wrote: Expansion makes the most sense. You get people to buy the starter, and then give them another box they can buy to add to those starter forces.
Yeah, except when the units are not really desirable, and the expansion is expensive, like the DA expansion to DV.
Now, that SM vs Tau box, if it's any good, I will buy so many of..... (please no more terminators please please please....)
Or, to be even more like Office, you have to subscribe to the rules. $5.00 a month gets you access to the rulebook, but if you cancel your subscription you have to stop playing.
If there were a way to pay $5 / month, and get digital copies of all the rules, all the time, I would digitally line up to subscribe. I would even be ok with not having access to the rules after I cancel.
Heck, I would happily pay $10 / month, or prepay $100 per year.
Talys wrote: If there were a way to pay $5 / month, and get digital copies of all the rules, all the time, I would digitally line up to subscribe. I would even be ok with not having access to the rules after I cancel.
Heck, I would happily pay $10 / month, or prepay $100 per year.
Given the codices alone cost over $1000 for all of them, I doubt GW would consider being kind enough to supply all rules for only $100 per year.
They have, and it's actually a very clever thing. Stands to reason that you'd do it more. Expand the conflict between the Dark Angels and the Still-No-Legion-Rules into a proper-sized campaign, with book-box-book like the last two campaign events.
Talys wrote: If there were a way to pay $5 / month, and get digital copies of all the rules, all the time, I would digitally line up to subscribe. I would even be ok with not having access to the rules after I cancel.
Heck, I would happily pay $10 / month, or prepay $100 per year.
Given the codices alone cost over $1000 for all of them, I doubt GW would consider being kind enough to supply all rules for only $100 per year.
Whilst I can easily get hold of a morally ambiguous copy of Photoshop/Lightroom etc I subscribe to the Adobe CC package as I know I am getting the latest, most up to date software for a very reasonable £9 per month. I'd happily chuck a few quid at GW for a digital version of rules and codices.
angelofvengeance wrote:HBMC: I thought they'd done that already?
Here:
That lot, and the DV starter set, really make me want to start CS and DA armies...
BOT - I would probably get back into WHFB if it became a skirmish game with maybe 20-40 models only needed.
Maybe like a larger version of Mordhiem (but without the progression).
@monders -- The DA expansion box is so pricey and low model count :(
The ravenwing command is cool, but does not really fit with the Deathwing knights. I can't imagine anyone with the starter box unit who decides to be more serious with 40k decided that a Nephalim, DWK squad, and ravenwing command to be the next things to add to their army. It would have been better if the DWK were replaced with a couple non-command Ravenwing bikes.
Talys wrote: @monders -- The DA expansion box is so pricey and low model count :(
The ravenwing command is cool, but does not really fit with the Deathwing knights. I can't imagine anyone with the starter box unit who decides to be more serious with 40k decided that a Nephalim, DWK squad, and ravenwing command to be the next things to add to their army. It would have been better if the DWK were replaced with a couple non-command Ravenwing bikes.
well yeah if gw were trying to release a coherent add on to there starter set other options would be better, but as a way of clearing dead stock to parents who are buying/have bought dv and want something else it's great.
Talys wrote: @monders -- The DA expansion box is so pricey and low model count :(
The ravenwing command is cool, but does not really fit with the Deathwing knights. I can't imagine anyone with the starter box unit who decides to be more serious with 40k decided that a Nephalim, DWK squad, and ravenwing command to be the next things to add to their army. It would have been better if the DWK were replaced with a couple non-command Ravenwing bikes.
well yeah if gw were trying to release a coherent add on to there starter set other options would be better, but as a way of clearing dead stock to parents who are buying/have bought dv and want something else it's great.
I guess O.O.
See, if it were just dead-stock clearing, I would have thought limited edition box set (with better value). But this is a permanent expansion. Even if they were dead stock, at some point, it wouldn't be any more, right? Anyhow, I'm not exactly sure how anyone who plays 40k for any length of time stays with Dark Angels. There is very little codex appeal to them, and being the Space Marine faction in the starter box "debuffs" their coolness value. Now, granted, DWK and Ravenwing Command are some of GW's coolest models, but the people buying them just for modelling value wouldn't exactly characterize it as an "expansion".
Talys wrote: @monders -- The DA expansion box is so pricey and low model count :(
The ravenwing command is cool, but does not really fit with the Deathwing knights. I can't imagine anyone with the starter box unit who decides to be more serious with 40k decided that a Nephalim, DWK squad, and ravenwing command to be the next things to add to their army. It would have been better if the DWK were replaced with a couple non-command Ravenwing bikes.
well yeah if gw were trying to release a coherent add on to there starter set other options would be better, but as a way of clearing dead stock to parents who are buying/have bought dv and want something else it's great.
I guess O.O.
See, if it were just dead-stock clearing, I would have thought limited edition box set (with better value). But this is a permanent expansion. Even if they were dead stock, at some point, it wouldn't be any more, right? Anyhow, I'm not exactly sure how anyone who plays 40k for any length of time stays with Dark Angels. There is very little codex appeal to them, and being the Space Marine faction in the starter box "debuffs" their coolness value. Now, granted, DWK and Ravenwing Command are some of GW's coolest models, but the people buying them just for modelling value wouldn't exactly characterize it as an "expansion".
You're overthinking it. It isn't aimed at people who have knowledge like that about the game. It's aimed at people who have just bought DV and want a quick easy way to expand it. They don't know what's gonna be any good.
OgreChubbs wrote: If whfb drops to a skrimish game "which it won't" they would lose my buisness which is about 1grand a month on ogres lol
The rumor is that there will be a skirmish mode as an option to get into the game without having a kazillion models. There will still be the full game... so it's rumored on BoLS.
OgreChubbs wrote: If whfb drops to a skrimish game "which it won't" they would lose my buisness which is about 1grand a month on ogres lol
The rumor is that there will be a skirmish mode as an option to get into the game without having a kazillion models. There will still be the full game... so it's rumored on BoLS.
I have heard those rumours as well. I think it's a terribad idea to release the skirmish BEFORE 9th proper. You're going to panic some players who may sell their models & won't bother with 9th as they do not want to rebuy an entire army. Again my biggest issue is GWs secrecy. It's been pushing me to buying & playing more WM/H and it's got our core group of fantasy guys on a purchasing freeze and also exploring other games (KoW, Bolt action, WM/H, Malifaux)
OgreChubbs wrote: If whfb drops to a skrimish game "which it won't" they would lose my buisness which is about 1grand a month on ogres lol
The rumor is that there will be a skirmish mode as an option to get into the game without having a kazillion models. There will still be the full game... so it's rumored on BoLS.
I have heard those rumours as well. I think it's a terribad idea to release the skirmish BEFORE 9th proper. You're going to panic some players who may sell their models & won't bother with 9th as they do not want to rebuy an entire army. Again my biggest issue is GWs secrecy. It's been pushing me to buying & playing more WM/H and it's got our core group of fantasy guys on a purchasing freeze and also exploring other games (KoW, Bolt action, WM/H, Malifaux)
Thats the thing, people will continue with their own miniature projects regardless of what GW does with WFB. We have options and thats something GW needs to understand if they still want to have a game that sells well. The secrecy goes against all of that philosophy, it kind of assumes that people will still be interested in your product no matter what.
Before someone brings the argument that the secrecy is due to the fact that they have to protect the IP thing, IIRC this started before the disputes and it was more of a knee jerk reaction to bad feedback on the internet to the revealed rumours. I think the mind set was at the time that the bad reviews/opinions on say a new box set would kill the momentum and cost them sales. They believe WFB is a spree of the moment impulse buy.
Im a bit immune to all that BS I'm in no rush but its really silly a company of this dimension thinking that it has the flexibility to take sales drops due to lack of publicity.
As for the 2 in one games, bring it on, lets see if they scale up well or not. Theres so many skirmishes on the market that GW needs to bring in something really special here.
Im a bit immune to all that BS I'm in no rush but its really silly a company of this dimension thinking that it has the flexibility to take sales drops due to lack of publicity.
Well of course, that would be very silly, the thing is their sales don't drop because of a lack of publicity - they have said on numerous occasions that when they experimented with shortening the window between announcement and release, sales went UP each time, so of course they've kept the one-week model because it yields the most sales. If you're going to turn a thread into a moan about GW's marketing at least keep to the facts.
OgreChubbs wrote: If whfb drops to a skrimish game "which it won't" they would lose my buisness which is about 1grand a month on ogres lol
The rumor is that there will be a skirmish mode as an option to get into the game without having a kazillion models. There will still be the full game... so it's rumored on BoLS.
I have heard those rumours as well. I think it's a terribad idea to release the skirmish BEFORE 9th proper. You're going to panic some players who may sell their models & won't bother with 9th as they do not want to rebuy an entire army. Again my biggest issue is GWs secrecy. It's been pushing me to buying & playing more WM/H and it's got our core group of fantasy guys on a purchasing freeze and also exploring other games (KoW, Bolt action, WM/H, Malifaux)
Thats the thing, people will continue with their own miniature projects regardless of what GW does with WFB. We have options and thats something GW needs to understand if they still want to have a game that sells well. The secrecy goes against all of that philosophy, it kind of assumes that people will still be interested in your product no matter what.
Before someone brings the argument that the secrecy is due to the fact that they have to protect the IP thing, IIRC this started before the disputes and it was more of a knee jerk reaction to bad feedback on the internet to the revealed rumours. I think the mind set was at the time that the bad reviews/opinions on say a new box set would kill the momentum and cost them sales. They believe WFB is a spree of the moment impulse buy.
Im a bit immune to all that BS I'm in no rush but its really silly a company of this dimension thinking that it has the flexibility to take sales drops due to lack of publicity.
As for the 2 in one games, bring it on, lets see if they scale up well or not. Theres so many skirmishes on the market that GW needs to bring in something really special here.
I thought the secrecy of releases started back when they got the LotR license and had to keep the miniatures unseen because the minis couldn't be shown before the movie they were in was released. Since LotR was half of WD at the time GW decided it was easier to hide everything then just selectively hide LotR and Hobbit product.
Im a bit immune to all that BS I'm in no rush but its really silly a company of this dimension thinking that it has the flexibility to take sales drops due to lack of publicity.
Well of course, that would be very silly, the thing is their sales don't drop because of a lack of publicity - they have said on numerous occasions that when they experimented with shortening the window between announcement and release, sales went UP each time, so of course they've kept the one-week model because it yields the most sales. If you're going to turn a thread into a moan about GW's marketing at least keep to the facts.
They have? Who said that and when?
Because since their sales numbers have been declining for the past years, it would be a pretty stupid thing to say.
Im a bit immune to all that BS I'm in no rush but its really silly a company of this dimension thinking that it has the flexibility to take sales drops due to lack of publicity.
Well of course, that would be very silly, the thing is their sales don't drop because of a lack of publicity - they have said on numerous occasions that when they experimented with shortening the window between announcement and release, sales went UP each time, so of course they've kept the one-week model because it yields the most sales. If you're going to turn a thread into a moan about GW's marketing at least keep to the facts.
And yes you should believe in what they say without resorting to any kind of thinking after all they have no interest in sugar coating their reports and will openly admit their policies are redundant to their board and clients. Yeah those facts I have a problem taking in without any form of refutation. On the other hand my statement was claiming to be nothing more than my IIRC... You seem to have facts though, so glad that WFB is such a best seller and that their annual reports seems to be brilliant in sales growth... their plan is working just fine.
In all seriousness Publicity is just one of the many shortfalls in GW current policies and not the only solution for the current WFB predicament.
As for moan... well it was not my intention, actually just replying to a forum mate about his decision to continue with his other hobbies projects because GW secrecy is killing it for him, but dont let this get in front of your... whatever that was.
Back on topic WFB seems to be going for a major facelift but a bit to late for salute shopping spree, almost everyone I know just stopped buying stuff until there is some clarity.
Im a bit immune to all that BS I'm in no rush but its really silly a company of this dimension thinking that it has the flexibility to take sales drops due to lack of publicity.
Well of course, that would be very silly, the thing is their sales don't drop because of a lack of publicity - they have said on numerous occasions that when they experimented with shortening the window between announcement and release, sales went UP each time, so of course they've kept the one-week model because it yields the most sales. If you're going to turn a thread into a moan about GW's marketing at least keep to the facts.
They have? Who said that and when?
Because since their sales numbers have been declining for the past years, it would be a pretty stupid thing to say.
I can't remember where I read it but someone said one of the game designers said it at an open day or GD or something. As for the overall decline, who's to say it wouldn't be worse if they didn't go by the one-week model? So I don't think it's so easily dismissed as pretty stupid.
And yes you should believe in what they say without resorting to any kind of thinking after all they have no interest in sugar coating their reports and will openly admit their policies are redundant to their board and clients. Yeah those facts I have a problem taking in without any form of refutation. On the other hand my statement was claiming to be nothing more than my IIRC... You seem to have facts though, so glad that WFB is such a best seller and that their annual reports seems to be brilliant in sales growth... their plan is working just fine.
In all seriousness Publicity is just one of the many shortfalls in GW current policies and not the only solution for the current WFB predicament.
As for moan... well it was not my intention, actually just replying to a forum mate about his decision to continue with his other hobbies projects because GW secrecy is killing it for him, but dont let this get in front of your... whatever that was.
That's hardly fair, I'm not saying you should take everything GW says at face value, I'm saying that your speculation that it must harm sales is just that whereas in the past they've come out and said it only improves sales to keep the lid on upcoming releases. Besides, surely I'm demonstrating a deeper level of critical thinking if I've come to the conclusion that they're doing it because it earns them money than you are when you come to the conclusion that they're doing it because they're the stupids? So be careful where you're slinging the accusations of thoughtlessness etc around, that's a dangerous game.
The second bit of your post amounts to the same argument PhantomViper made that if keeping the lid on preorders was a positive thing GW's sales would be growing, and the fact that I can't see that makes me some sort of idiot. The same counter-argument, then; for all you know, their decline would have been even more rapid if they hadn't adopted the one-week preorder model. Anyway, this is off topic, that was my starting point with this.
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NAVARRO wrote: but dont let this get in front of your... whatever that was.
U R SO FUNNEE MAN <3
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Prestor Jon wrote: I thought the secrecy of releases started back when they got the LotR license and had to keep the miniatures unseen because the minis couldn't be shown before the movie they were in was released. Since LotR was half of WD at the time GW decided it was easier to hide everything then just selectively hide LotR and Hobbit product.
I've heard it was to do with the movie license too. But you know, it's so inconvenient, how can GW be so stupid, whinge whinge whinge moan moan moan
NAVARRO wrote: So your hard fact is based on something you don't remember
I remember it distinctly, just can't find it. I even think it might've been here on dakka that I read it. I didn't call it a "hard fact", I said "they've said X", which I believe to be true. Can you stop putting fething words in my mouth please, you massive troll?
The rest of your post is what I suspected. I don't feed that sorry.
I can't remember where I read it but someone said one of the game designers said it at an open day or GD or something. As for the overall decline, who's to say it wouldn't be worse if they didn't go by the one-week model? So I don't think it's so easily dismissed as pretty stupid.
Why would a game designer have such an intimate knowledge of the company's marketing tactics and sales figures as to say that EVERY time that they went with no advertisement on a product the sales of that product had gone up?
And who would say that it wouldn't be worse if they advertised? Common sense, that is who. Or are you actually saying that the billions of dollars / euros / pounds spent in advertisement by every company on the planet are just money burned away?!
So yes, it is easily dismissed as a pretty stupid thing to say but its very much in line with all the other stupid things that GW does.
Bear in mind that they don't seem to have an actual marketing or PR department. It's entirely possible the designer was involved in the marketing work, or office friends of someone else who did the work (but is pretty much guaranteed not to have any marketing experience).
It makes total sense that in their relative knowledge vacuum on what customers buy when and why, GW would stick to behaviours that seem to up sales temporarily. And the "one week ahead/limited edition release super-mysterious and only for a short time available" thing is (a poor attempt at) marketing.
But Navarro and PhantomViper are right to say that we have no proof of a raise of sales - since they do not publish weekly or monthly sales figures that could show that.
A designer's opinion on things he probably has no insight into, especially as anecdotal as you make it, proves really nothing except that that designer likes to believe it is so.
To be clear: I actually do think that it does up sales. But only compared to not doing any kind of marketing.
However: Most likely it makes a lot less sales than a full-blown marketing machine would generate instead of this half-assed attempt at it, and I think that is what the two trolls are aiming at. It would be pretty daft to believe that a lack of publicity has no direct negative impact on sales. Apple got most of their money from marketing (...totally overpriced products to a big number of half-mindless consumers that believe a certain mobile phone will make them more attractive and part of a hip crowd).
And if marketing does raise sales figures, not making marketing means making less sales (since money spent by consumers is not an infinite number, and they will carry it elsewhere).
Salute would be a good opportunity to show a bit of your product. FW is always packed there.
Yet its another missed chance by GW. I mean, each single year Salute shows considerable growth and would be the perfect platform to have some GW stands showing their new stuff and generating some buzz.
They opt not to be involved with the hobby and thats fair enough, its their gear. But to assume that their sales are going to increase from that its a bit nonsense.
This industry is a bit hard to track because most are small companies... Salute is only getting bigger and bigger, many companies are growing the Kickstarters are making small fortunes etc... So there is money coming into the industry, why is GW not growing? Sure its not just because the lack of marketing, many other factors play a role on grabbing Hobbyist money.
If the rumours are anything to go by the big reveal will be on the 24th, how many of you Salute attendees (25th April) would not get into it if they sold some preorders at salute and had some demo tables with the new WFB skirmish rules? They would sell like hotcakes. But nope! Just keep it quiet and make it all limited ed and direct only.
WFB needs to be a hit but I do not see GW walking the extra mile for it.
Man I dont know how people are not just jazzing out about this!! Ive wanted to play a skirmish game for a long while using Warhammer models. GW's model although a little pricy are so nice to work with and kit bash, my mind is exploding at the possibilities. I think it will be nice to have more center piece models as well. Painting 50 of the same core model is dreadful..
NAVARRO wrote: So your hard fact is based on something you don't remember
I remember it distinctly, just can't find it. I even think it might've been here on dakka that I read it. I didn't call it a "hard fact", I said "they've said X", which I believe to be true. Can you stop putting fething words in my mouth please, you massive troll?
That sentence makes exactly no sense.
No, but you did say stick to the facts. If you're talking about something that may have been said by someone who may have talked to a game designer who may have said X... then why would you say stick to the facts when talking about something that can't be proven as a fact?
Chopxsticks wrote: Man I dont know how people are not just jazzing out about this!! Ive wanted to play a skirmish game for a long while using Warhammer models. GW's model although a little pricy are so nice to work with and kit bash, my mind is exploding at the possibilities. I think it will be nice to have more center piece models as well. Painting 50 of the same core model is dreadful..
I think those people all already played the skirmish rules for fantasy back when they where supported and remember how that turned out in the end.
Chopxsticks wrote: Man I dont know how people are not just jazzing out about this!! Ive wanted to play a skirmish game for a long while using Warhammer models. GW's model although a little pricy are so nice to work with and kit bash, my mind is exploding at the possibilities. I think it will be nice to have more center piece models as well. Painting 50 of the same core model is dreadful..
I think those people all already played the skirmish rules for fantasy back when they where supported and remember how that turned out in the end.
Awesome, until they stopped printing the book and my copy basically fell to pieces from use?
Empire in Flames still stands the test of GWery...
There is plenty of support for Skirmish, if you know where to look.
Best way to play fantasy as a start. We had one summer where we started with one box of the base troops, back when it came with 24, the box was plenty enough to make the starts of base regimentals, then using Mighty Empires, we started up on evolution games, as well as exploratory / monster fight games.
Its great fun if you have the mates and the resources to have 4 and 8 ft tables...
Chopxsticks wrote: Man I dont know how people are not just jazzing out about this!! Ive wanted to play a skirmish game for a long while using Warhammer models. GW's model although a little pricy are so nice to work with and kit bash, my mind is exploding at the possibilities. I think it will be nice to have more center piece models as well. Painting 50 of the same core model is dreadful..
I think those people all already played the skirmish rules for fantasy back when they where supported and remember how that turned out in the end.
Chopxsticks wrote: Man I dont know how people are not just jazzing out about this!! Ive wanted to play a skirmish game for a long while using Warhammer models. GW's model although a little pricy are so nice to work with and kit bash, my mind is exploding at the possibilities. I think it will be nice to have more center piece models as well. Painting 50 of the same core model is dreadful..
Maybe because most folks no longer trust GW to make even half way decent rules?
Maybe because they are looking at the burning wreckage of decades of background and gaming and believe that the Warhamster Fantasy Bubble is just not going to fill the empty hole left behind?
Maybe because Warhammer had a good skirmish game, and then GW dropped it?
Thank god for this! I have been waiting and waiting for some more info to come forward about WHFB. Looks like this box will be another skaven set!
But seriously I am fairly interested to see what comes of this so called 9th edition. I had a fledgling Wood Elf army that I have only just assembled and am now beginning to paint.
You know, I had heard from the owner of the FLGS that WHFB was going in a new chibi direction, trying to get in on the success of SDE and the Pokemon demographic, but I had written it off as wishlisting. Seeing the new doom-ball like that makes me rethink things.
Wehrkind wrote: You know, I had heard from the owner of the FLGS that WHFB was going in a new chibi direction, trying to get in on the success of SDE and the Pokemon demographic, but I had written it off as wishlisting. Seeing the new doom-ball like that makes me rethink things.
Nah, Pokemon is just a passing phase! It's what our plastic liege decreed, and look at how right he was! Nobody even remembers that whole thing.
No idea if this is news or whatever, I don't play fantasy, just thought I'd put it out there.
All in stock and available in Canada. I think they will simply remove them from their database instead of putting "Temporaly Out of Stock", they will probably put a label "While stock last" before removing them definetly.
No idea if this is news or whatever, I don't play fantasy, just thought I'd put it out there.
All in stock and available in Canada. I think they will simply remove them from their database instead of putting "Temporaly Out of Stock", they will probably put a label "While stock last" before removing them definetly.
This. Those same kits said that a month ago, got a small restock, then were sold out again a week later.
Im a bit immune to all that BS I'm in no rush but its really silly a company of this dimension thinking that it has the flexibility to take sales drops due to lack of publicity.
Well of course, that would be very silly, the thing is their sales don't drop because of a lack of publicity - they have said on numerous occasions that when they experimented with shortening the window between announcement and release, sales went UP each time, so of course they've kept the one-week model because it yields the most sales. If you're going to turn a thread into a moan about GW's marketing at least keep to the facts.
I have no idea where you are getting your info from that sales went up from this.
Personally, i've seen sales drop in half on new releases at my stores, or worse. Lack of advertising will do that. Stores don't do launch parties anymore, or megabattles, painting events, etc to celebrate new releases. How can we? There's no time.
Meanwhile, people are getting excited and talking about all the other games coming out, when they stumble across something new by GW. A lack of excitement = less sales.
No one I've talked to at GW in the US even hints that sales have gone up on new products. Hell, my sales rep can't even tell me anything about the Eldar Codex except price. He won't see it until it comes out. Silly way to run a business.
Im a bit immune to all that BS I'm in no rush but its really silly a company of this dimension thinking that it has the flexibility to take sales drops due to lack of publicity.
Well of course, that would be very silly, the thing is their sales don't drop because of a lack of publicity - they have said on numerous occasions that when they experimented with shortening the window between announcement and release, sales went UP each time, so of course they've kept the one-week model because it yields the most sales. If you're going to turn a thread into a moan about GW's marketing at least keep to the facts.
I have no idea where you are getting your info from that sales went up from this.
Personally, i've seen sales drop in half on new releases at my stores, or worse. Lack of advertising will do that. Stores don't do launch parties anymore, or megabattles, painting events, etc to celebrate new releases. How can we? There's no time.
Meanwhile, people are getting excited and talking about all the other games coming out, when they stumble across something new by GW. A lack of excitement = less sales.
No one I've talked to at GW in the US even hints that sales have gone up on new products. Hell, my sales rep can't even tell me anything about the Eldar Codex except price. He won't see it until it comes out. Silly way to run a business.
Out of curiosity is the same thing happening to 40k or are you just referring to WFB? If new 40k releases are dropping by 50% or worse in the US then THAT is scary.
I've being playn WHFB since '98. I own 4 armies and I'll get a Fanatic tattoo next month.
All in all,this is what I think of GW and their 9th Ed on round bases and their ETC:
The most reliable Rumormonger out there weighs in on the upcoming WFB 9th Edition. Here’s the latest:
via DVeight 4-22-2015
Warhammer 9th Timing
The source is a GW employee in a senior position. Not design team. Very good friend of mine that has for years been trying to get me to play Warhammer and 40K which I started year ago. He let the cat out of the bag when we discussed teeing up a social game. His words were “Let’s organise a game soon and also some time get together with the other guys for a last game of 8th edition triumph and treachery. 9th Edition is locked in for release on 11th July.”
via Harry 4-22-2015 ~Editor’s note, when Harry says something, you can pretty much take it to the bank.
Regarding the initial 9th “Starter Set”
via jtrowell
If it exists at all, for now the only thing that I consider confirmed is that there should be a box with Chaos against “Humans” (thanks Harry ), but it might well be just a normal starter box released in fall like for the previous editions, and not a separate skirmish game at all.
via Harry
You are most welcome.
I have posted about this. It is not a ‘normal’ Fantasy box set. It is more like the recent 40K Box sets. The rules “book” is tiny… barely a booklet even a pamphlet is being over generous … more of a leaflet … well I say leaflet, it’s closer to a ‘post it note’. There is not enough paper in this to wipe your own @rse … never mind space for enough rules to call it a skirmish game. If Fischer Price made wargames this would be Fischer Price my first wargame. It’s good but it’s not quite Carling.
(I may be overstating just how small the rulebook is for comedy effect. )
via Arthurius11
I can agree with Harry’s last post as this is the information I have also.
~and also confirms round bases for the models.
WFB 9th Roundup
Note that there is contradictory information regarding the exact timing of the WFB 9th and how many 40K codices are coming before it. There are reports of between 2 and 4 codex/campaign 40K products shipping BEFORE WFB 9th arrives.
NAVARRO wrote: Why is that every new little bit of info we hear is more depressing than the previous...
And also more confusing? Each batch of rumors just seem to confirm that I don't understand what the feth is going on with a game I've spent 20 years playing.
But this Mordheim league my club is starting up, I'm totally on top of that
But this Mordheim league my club is starting up, I'm totally on top of that
Played two games of Mordheim this weekend and it was a total blast. If there is a skirmish game coming out alongside 9th, lets hope it is the spiritual successor to Mordheim as that would be great fun.
On to the topic at hand, the only thing I believe is that something fantasy is coming out this year. These rumors keep being so wildly varied and vague that it must be some time off yet. I just wish GW would throw a little morsel out there to give us some sort of idea. I really don't know why they would think keeping completely silent on this until right before it hits could be good. With WD in its current format, they could easily put in a few pieces debriefing from the End Times and setting us up (even if it is just system-wise) for what is coming and why they are doing it.
But this Mordheim league my club is starting up, I'm totally on top of that
Played two games of Mordheim this weekend and it was a total blast. If there is a skirmish game coming out alongside 9th, lets hope it is the spiritual successor to Mordheim as that would be great fun.
On to the topic at hand, the only thing I believe is that something fantasy is coming out this year. These rumors keep being so wildly varied and vague that it must be some time off yet. I just wish GW would throw a little morsel out there to give us some sort of idea. I really don't know why they would think keeping completely silent on this until right before it hits could be good. With WD in its current format, they could easily put in a few pieces debriefing from the End Times and setting us up (even if it is just system-wise) for what is coming and why they are doing it.
And stop people buying WFB boxes? Are you mad!??! No no, keep silent and then drop it on 'em with a weeks notice to have the money ready, THATS the way to do business
Im a bit immune to all that BS I'm in no rush but its really silly a company of this dimension thinking that it has the flexibility to take sales drops due to lack of publicity.
Well of course, that would be very silly, the thing is their sales don't drop because of a lack of publicity - they have said on numerous occasions that when they experimented with shortening the window between announcement and release, sales went UP each time, so of course they've kept the one-week model because it yields the most sales. If you're going to turn a thread into a moan about GW's marketing at least keep to the facts.
I have no idea where you are getting your info from that sales went up from this.
Personally, i've seen sales drop in half on new releases at my stores, or worse. Lack of advertising will do that. Stores don't do launch parties anymore, or megabattles, painting events, etc to celebrate new releases. How can we? There's no time.
Meanwhile, people are getting excited and talking about all the other games coming out, when they stumble across something new by GW. A lack of excitement = less sales.
No one I've talked to at GW in the US even hints that sales have gone up on new products. Hell, my sales rep can't even tell me anything about the Eldar Codex except price. He won't see it until it comes out. Silly way to run a business.
Out of curiosity is the same thing happening to 40k or are you just referring to WFB? If new 40k releases are dropping by 50% or worse in the US then THAT is scary.
Not as bad as WFB, but down by a good chunk. I've still got about 70% of 40k on my shelf, vs about 30% of WFB. GW just keeps taking away WFB kits and making them direct only. Not as bad with 40k. The huge problem with selling GW right now is that Nobody Cares, and No Excitement about new product. The main reason for this: No one even knows new stuff came out. Even if i have a clue about what is coming out from rumor threads or leaks, i can't advertise until GW posts up pre-orders. How many of the Assassin game can i sell when i get 1 weekend to talk about it before ordering? I'll have people coming in a month from now saying "WTF Skitarrie/WTF Edar???"
Somehow GW thinks the rules of advertising and sales dont affect them. Meanwhile i have players extremely excited about other games, and can't wait for them to come out. I sold more of the latest FOW book than I did the Eldar Codex during the first weekend they were out. The FOW players knew the book was coming, had pre-orders in, and were excited about new German tanks with infrared scopes and nightfighting rules. (Yes, half the 40k armies don't have night goggles, but the germans got them in '44. )
Not as bad as WFB, but down by a good chunk. I've still got about 70% of 40k on my shelf, vs about 30% of WFB. GW just keeps taking away WFB kits and making them direct only. Not as bad with 40k. The huge problem with selling GW right now is that Nobody Cares, and No Excitement about new product. The main reason for this: No one even knows new stuff came out. Even if i have a clue about what is coming out from rumor threads or leaks, i can't advertise until GW posts up pre-orders. How many of the Assassin game can i sell when i get 1 weekend to talk about it before ordering? I'll have people coming in a month from now saying "WTF Skitarrie/WTF Edar???"
Somehow GW thinks the rules of advertising and sales dont affect them. Meanwhile i have players extremely excited about other games, and can't wait for them to come out. I sold more of the latest FOW book than I did the Eldar Codex during the first weekend they were out. The FOW players knew the book was coming, had pre-orders in, and were excited about new German tanks with infrared scopes and nightfighting rules. (Yes, half the 40k armies don't have night goggles, but the germans got them in '44. )
I suspect the only metric they care about is if it increases sales at their own portal (their online and physical stores) where they keep all the profits.
OgreChubbs wrote: If whfb drops to a skrimish game "which it won't" they would lose my buisness which is about 1grand a month on ogres lol
Jezz....how many ogres do you need? Are you trying to catch them all?
Well right now this month it was firebelly 4boxes of iron guts 4 boxes of lead belchers 3 butchers, and 2 stonehorns. I got lots of ogres and making a hole board for them .... Then a nagash board
Im a bit immune to all that BS I'm in no rush but its really silly a company of this dimension thinking that it has the flexibility to take sales drops due to lack of publicity.
Well of course, that would be very silly, the thing is their sales don't drop because of a lack of publicity - they have said on numerous occasions that when they experimented with shortening the window between announcement and release, sales went UP each time, so of course they've kept the one-week model because it yields the most sales. If you're going to turn a thread into a moan about GW's marketing at least keep to the facts.
I have no idea where you are getting your info from that sales went up from this.
Personally, i've seen sales drop in half on new releases at my stores, or worse. Lack of advertising will do that. Stores don't do launch parties anymore, or megabattles, painting events, etc to celebrate new releases. How can we? There's no time.
Meanwhile, people are getting excited and talking about all the other games coming out, when they stumble across something new by GW. A lack of excitement = less sales.
No one I've talked to at GW in the US even hints that sales have gone up on new products. Hell, my sales rep can't even tell me anything about the Eldar Codex except price. He won't see it until it comes out. Silly way to run a business.
Out of curiosity is the same thing happening to 40k or are you just referring to WFB? If new 40k releases are dropping by 50% or worse in the US then THAT is scary.
Not as bad as WFB, but down by a good chunk. I've still got about 70% of 40k on my shelf, vs about 30% of WFB. GW just keeps taking away WFB kits and making them direct only. Not as bad with 40k. The huge problem with selling GW right now is that Nobody Cares, and No Excitement about new product. The main reason for this: No one even knows new stuff came out. Even if i have a clue about what is coming out from rumor threads or leaks, i can't advertise until GW posts up pre-orders. How many of the Assassin game can i sell when i get 1 weekend to talk about it before ordering? I'll have people coming in a month from now saying "WTF Skitarrie/WTF Edar???"
Somehow GW thinks the rules of advertising and sales dont affect them. Meanwhile i have players extremely excited about other games, and can't wait for them to come out. I sold more of the latest FOW book than I did the Eldar Codex during the first weekend they were out. The FOW players knew the book was coming, had pre-orders in, and were excited about new German tanks with infrared scopes and nightfighting rules. (Yes, half the 40k armies don't have night goggles, but the germans got them in '44. )
That would make sense though, since it was also part of the campaign to undermine the trade partners. Your sales != GW's direct sales and I expect they're not closely related
ME THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL,
"
Of course, in Germany it would have to be... Warhammer 40.000 2015,5 to really mess us up.
