The attempt to make the suit arms more feminine is just lazy; it looks so impractical there's nothing cool about it. If it were just a gun bot, that would be one thing but, swinging heavy weapons, it just looks bad.
Also, the part where so many of these designs derive from the original ALIENS space forklift that completely misses the point of it as an improvised weapon adds to the silliness.
spiralingcadaver wrote: The attempt to make the suit arms more feminine is just lazy; it looks so impractical there's nothing cool about it. If it were just a gun bot, that would be one thing but, swinging heavy weapons, it just looks bad.
Also, the part where so many of these designs derive from the original ALIENS space forklift that completely misses the point of it as an improvised weapon adds to the silliness.
Past the surprise (I really didn't expect to get a new unit like this for SoB), I like them. The design is coherent with the rest of the army, they're not too big nor too small and they're not overcharged with weapons and such. They also look like they will be easy to paint (thanks the God Emperor for that !).
Will definitely take a couple of boxes of those.
They said they were good in melee in the preview video. Though I don't think SoB were exactly lacking in that field, I welcome them anyway. Something tells me they'll have a good firepower as well...
What have I written? I have written about the SISTER'S arms. Limbs of the suit itself are fine.
They look like the same than normal infantry sisters of battle. Which are indeed a bit too thin given they're wearing power armours, but that's still consistent with the rest of the army.
Changing that would mean they'd look weird next to their "lil sisters".
I think the Sister's arms are fine. I suspect there is a perspective issue since you never see a Sister of Battle's arms so close to something that large. To copy what I said elsewhere, my issues with this model are:
1. The suit's legs are too far apart for a human to fit their legs in them.
2. The thighs of the suit are too long for the pilots knees to be at the suit's knees, but seem too short for their feet to fit in them above the knees.
3. While not uncommon in 40K models, this suit has no peripheral vision. She has less than a 180 degree view.
I'm bad at estimating sizes. Anybody have a guess about what base size this is going to be on, or model height? Looks to me like a 60mm base? or maybe a 50...
I think the Sister's arms are fine. I suspect there is a perspective issue since you never see a Sister of Battle's arms so close to something that large. To copy what I said elsewhere, my issues with this model are:
1. The suit's legs are too far apart for a human to fit their legs in them.
2. The thighs of the suit are too long for the pilots knees to be at the suit's knees, but seem too short for their feet to fit in them above the knees.
3. While not uncommon in 40K models, this suit has no peripheral vision. She has less than a 180 degree view.
I kind of assumed she had no legs (the sister inside that is)
I just can't buy that for a non-special character. In 40K if you lose a leg, they grow you a new one or put on a cybernetic. They don't create an entire warsuit filled to the brim with weapons and wait around for someone to lose their legs to pilot it.
And before you say they volunteer, the practicality of having legless Sisters hanging about for heavy combat but unable to get themselves across the average room negates the advantage.
1. The suit's legs are too far apart for a human to fit their legs in them.
Firstborn Space Marines syndrome.
2. The thighs of the suit are too long for the pilots knees to be at the suit's knees, but seem too short for their feet to fit in them above the knees.
I bet they're actually piloted like Shadowsun's new exo-armor, with her legs fitting the thighs and maybe the feet going into the knees.
3. While not uncommon in 40K models, this suit has no peripheral vision. She has less than a 180 degree view.
So what ? That's pretty much how all big armors from the Imperium are, in the end.
At this point, trying to criticize that aspect just means you're not for 40k's whole design. Everything in 40k is impractical and unrealist. They're miniatures with a theme and they've always been overexaggerated.
Rihgu wrote: I'm bad at estimating sizes. Anybody have a guess about what base size this is going to be on, or model height? Looks to me like a 60mm base? or maybe a 50...
I think they're on a 50 base. They look like they're the size of a Penitent Engine (latest kit).
I haven't played Sisters but they seem to add a heavy melee unit to the army. These almost look like Sisters of Battle Centurions to me. I'm guessing a Gravis or better defensive statline for these things and hopefully they'll have some serious quality melee.
Given that each can lug a heavy weapon, they could probably make a serious dent in something large with those multi meltas and perhaps depending on the quality of their melee weapons, punch apart most of the increasingly heavy targets that are cropping up.
1. The suit's legs are too far apart for a human to fit their legs in them.
Firstborn Space Marines syndrome.
2. The thighs of the suit are too long for the pilots knees to be at the suit's knees, but seem too short for their feet to fit in them above the knees.
I bet they're actually piloted like Shadowsun's new exo-armor, with her legs fitting the thighs and maybe the feet going into the knees.
3. While not uncommon in 40K models, this suit has no peripheral vision. She has less than a 180 degree view.
So what ? That's pretty much how all big armors from the Imperium are, in the end.
At this point, trying to criticize that aspect just means you're not for 40k's whole design. Everything in 40k is impractical and unrealist. They're miniatures with a theme and they've always been overexaggerated.
Rihgu wrote: I'm bad at estimating sizes. Anybody have a guess about what base size this is going to be on, or model height? Looks to me like a 60mm base? or maybe a 50...
I think they're on a 50 base. They look like they're the size of a Penitent Engine (latest kit).
I really don't get why people claim gak is impractical. in the whole of 40k I think onl;y 1 vehicle is all that practical (the rhino) and even then I'm iffy on that
1. The suit's legs are too far apart for a human to fit their legs in them.
Firstborn Space Marines syndrome.
2. The thighs of the suit are too long for the pilots knees to be at the suit's knees, but seem too short for their feet to fit in them above the knees.
I bet they're actually piloted like Shadowsun's new exo-armor, with her legs fitting the thighs and maybe the feet going into the knees.
3. While not uncommon in 40K models, this suit has no peripheral vision. She has less than a 180 degree view.
So what ? That's pretty much how all big armors from the Imperium are, in the end.
At this point, trying to criticize that aspect just means you're not for 40k's whole design. Everything in 40k is impractical and unrealist. They're miniatures with a theme and they've always been overexaggerated.
Rihgu wrote: I'm bad at estimating sizes. Anybody have a guess about what base size this is going to be on, or model height? Looks to me like a 60mm base? or maybe a 50...
I think they're on a 50 base. They look like they're the size of a Penitent Engine (latest kit).
I like the model but do have to suspend belief. As stated, if the legs are inside the suit's "legs" there are multiple issues. If it were to walk, naturally the sister would want to use normal gait, and there is no way her knee joint can flex within the location of the upper thigh. The actual groin of the sister would have to be higher than suit groin to allow the legs to fit into the suit's legs, unless they separate her pelvis upon insertion into the suit!. So anatomically, it's a complete disaster, and from simple gait mechanics, a simple no go.
The only solution is it has to be a sister without legs, placed into the suit. If that's the case, she should have some neural connection to the suit to make the "legs" walk like normal legs. That doesn't appear to be the case.
But it's 40K, it has big guns, and it wants to hit things on the head.....it's all good
If they have strong rules, I'll probably end up painting a squad or two.
But for the most part it's a bit uninspired, IMO.
If I want to play with chunky models like this I could simply break out some Gravis Marines or Custodes or some such. The design (to me) does seem to come from "how can we do something cool with Sisters" and more "how can we chuck some XL-Gravis-sized "Infantry" kits into other armies".
I like the model but do have to suspend belief. As stated, if the legs are inside the suit's "legs" there are multiple issues. If it were to walk, naturally the sister would want to use normal gait, and there is no way her knee joint can flex within the location of the upper thigh. The actual groin of the sister would have to be higher than suit groin to allow the legs to fit into the suit's legs, unless they separate her pelvis upon insertion into the suit!. So anatomically, it's a complete disaster, and from simple gait mechanics, a simple no go.
The only solution is it has to be a sister without legs, placed into the suit. If that's the case, she should have some neural connection to the suit to make the "legs" walk like normal legs. That doesn't appear to be the case.
Normal sisters of battle in power armor are already not possible anatomically : their power armors are way too thin for a trained human's body, anyway. It's especially showing when you put Repentia (unarmored sisters) next to them, while their limbs are almost as thick.
So the whole army is already unrealist on that matter.
As for that specific matter with the exo-armor...it's exactly the same than for T'au crisis battlesuits. There's no way a living T'au can fit in that armor with the proportions of the miniature. Yet, it's the same principle, as some official artwork from GW showed it's actually meant to be that way.
Suspension of disbelief on just that, sure why not...but if you're really collecting a SoB army, your suspension of disbelief has already be activated on far worse than that.
Besides, sisters do believe in self-flagellation as showing their faith in the God Emperor. Being uncomfortable in an exo-suit is perfectly bearable for them - and even looked after.
alextroy wrote: I just can't buy that for a non-special character. In 40K if you lose a leg, they grow you a new one or put on a cybernetic. They don't create an entire warsuit filled to the brim with weapons and wait around for someone to lose their legs to pilot it.
And before you say they volunteer, the practicality of having legless Sisters hanging about for heavy combat but unable to get themselves across the average room negates the advantage.
I haven't read the fluff of the model yet so can't comment whether the pilot is a cripple or a sister which just suited up.
Though my educated guess would be that the pilot wasn't previously wounded because this model has similarities with the GK Dread Knight whose pilot isn't depending on the suit.
No peripheral vision:
Chances are pretty high that radar has been installed in the suit. HUD of the helmet displays that info then for the pilot.
Looks like the suits from Appleseed. They also got already nicknames from the community such as "Nundam" and "Babecarrier".
I am still a bit on the fence about them though. Still need to see all available weapon options and the sister's arms might be a bit too thin.
I would say its armed with the Holy trinity. Bolter, flamer and melta. Looking at it all three are the heavy versions.
Andrew
One in the official video (at 0:57 and 1:13) looks to have shoulder missile launchers (and a mace rather than sword, and thankfully a helmet). The other shoulder weapons are maybe? twin heavy bolters (in each shoulder), but the barrels look a bit stubby to me. (checked again, at 1:18, at an angle, they do look like heavy bolter barrels). These thing have a ridiculous amount of dakka.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4Ftvn2JYng
I think the Sister's arms are fine. I suspect there is a perspective issue since you never see a Sister of Battle's arms so close to something that large. To copy what I said elsewhere, my issues with this model are:
1. The suit's legs are too far apart for a human to fit their legs in them. 2. The thighs of the suit are too long for the pilots knees to be at the suit's knees, but seem too short for their feet to fit in them above the knees. 3. While not uncommon in 40K models, this suit has no peripheral vision. She has less than a 180 degree view.
I *hate* that the proportions are so female. Doesn't make any sense, they should have just put sisters in some penitent engines or given them one like this: Even the Centurion are better than this!! I thought GW learnt their lesson with those but clearly not.
Spoiler:
For comparison
If they end up being good, will have to put some sisters in penitent engines with a different weapon load out + seat.
Invictor Tactical Warsuit like with sister inside would have been considerably better, even if they were smaller.
While I love sisters getting new models this is a miss by a mile.
I think the Sister's arms are fine. I suspect there is a perspective issue since you never see a Sister of Battle's arms so close to something that large. To copy what I said elsewhere, my issues with this model are:
1. The suit's legs are too far apart for a human to fit their legs in them.
2. The thighs of the suit are too long for the pilots knees to be at the suit's knees, but seem too short for their feet to fit in them above the knees.
3. While not uncommon in 40K models, this suit has no peripheral vision. She has less than a 180 degree view.
I *hate* that the proportions are so female. Doesn't make any sense, they should have just put sisters in some penitent engines or given them one like this:
Even the Centurion are better than this!! I thought GW learnt their lesson with those but clearly not.
Spoiler:
For comparison
If they end up being good, will have to put some sisters in penitent engines with a different weapon load out + seat.
Invictor Tactical Warsuit like with sister inside would have been considerably better, even if they were smaller.
While I love sisters getting new models this is a miss by a mile.
Sisters in penitent engines are called mortifiers.
I think the Sister's arms are fine. I suspect there is a perspective issue since you never see a Sister of Battle's arms so close to something that large. To copy what I said elsewhere, my issues with this model are:
1. The suit's legs are too far apart for a human to fit their legs in them.
2. The thighs of the suit are too long for the pilots knees to be at the suit's knees, but seem too short for their feet to fit in them above the knees.
3. While not uncommon in 40K models, this suit has no peripheral vision. She has less than a 180 degree view.
I *hate* that the proportions are so female. Doesn't make any sense, they should have just put sisters in some penitent engines or given them one like this:
Even the Centurion are better than this!! I thought GW learnt their lesson with those but clearly not.
Spoiler:
For comparison
If they end up being good, will have to put some sisters in penitent engines with a different weapon load out + seat.
Invictor Tactical Warsuit like with sister inside would have been considerably better, even if they were smaller.
While I love sisters getting new models this is a miss by a mile.
Sisters in penitent engines are called mortifiers.
I *hate* that the proportions are so female. Doesn't make any sense, they should have just put sisters in some penitent engines or given them one like this:
Even the Centurion are better than this!! I thought GW learnt their lesson with those but clearly not.
Makes perfect sense in a mainly female army, actually.
Besides, Penitent Engines are made to punish people piloting them, not making them the elite. They already have Mortifiers for repentia who failed their duty, so doing something similar for the Parangon would look way too close visually.
That way, they're completely different on first sight.
Very nice I am glad they’re getting a second wave although the pile of shame is becoming obscene at this point.
I am curious about a few things:
- Is there a Canoness variant in the kit? One seems more decorated than the other two.
- Is this a Dreadnought style unit as opposed to a squad like the Penitent Engines? I know we see three of them at once but are these individually meant to be way better than a Mortifier to make them distinct.
- The elites slot for Sisters is really crowded. When I saw the boot in the Christmas image I had hoped it was Fallout 4 style power armour for a kind of troop choice like heavy Intercessors. IMO Sisters really need a second troop slot to add more variety; even if it’s just Sisters with chainswords. Really can’t see that being a troop choice though unless they’ve went bonkers.
- Any guess of profile? Just a mortifier with armour?
At any rate I’ll probably end up with a fair few in the army. With the priest and Palatine this could be quite a chunky second wave.
I don't see the need for it, unless it's an HQ choice (doubtful, since they showed a squad of three.)
We have the Penitent engine. We have the Mortifier. How many more walker units do sisters need?
Also, it just looks too sleek. One of the appeals to the SoB for me is the mix of old and new. The tanks and penitent engines have wood and flames, and look ancient. There's nothing about these designs that connects it to other sister models, save for maybe the top bit.
I do like that the shoulders are sort of like the armiger, though
- Is there a Canoness variant in the kit? One seems more decorated than the other two.
Would love to ! But I think the miniature showed in the preview is simply the leader of the unit.
- Is this a Dreadnought style unit as opposed to a squad like the Penitent Engines? I know we see three of them at once but are these individually meant to be way better than a Mortifier to make them distinct.
They really look like meant to be a squad. I wouldn't bet on being able to take them as units of 1, I would say a base of 3. But it's just my feeling here, honestly.
- The elites slot for Sisters is really crowded. When I saw the boot in the Christmas image I had hoped it was Fallout 4 style power armour for a kind of troop choice like heavy Intercessors. IMO Sisters really need a second troop slot to add more variety; even if it’s just Sisters with chainswords. Really can’t see that being a troop choice though unless they’ve went bonkers.
This, really...I can't see them as anything else than Elite or Support. Elite is already way too crowded...but Support are similar in that matter. I'd say they'd fit Elite still. Unless GW makes a big surprise and put them in Troops.
- Any guess of profile? Just a mortifier with armour?
Thinking more about a buffed custodes with sister trinity of heavy weapons.
At any rate I’ll probably end up with a fair few in the army. With the priest and Palatine this could be quite a chunky second wave.
The article implied they're part of another reinforcement wave...guess they will show up with the new V9 codex (I thought they would announce it in the preview, but I guess they keep it for later "big reveals").
Given that it looks like they can pack two twin heavy bolters and an additional heavy bolter base (not mention swapping for missile launchers, multimelta, etc), so 15 S5 damage 2 shots each, I kind of want them in a slot where they have to compete with other good choices.
And a potentially good melee attack on top? Yeah.
These are extremely dumb, and no amount of cope from certain posters is going to convince me otherwise(really? "their armour looks like it's a bit thin" is equivalent to "physically anatomically impossible"? pull the other one, it has got bells on).
Which is a shame, because while the execution makes my eyeballs want to burrow back into my own brain and hide from the sight of them, conceptually I actually kinda like them. Which makes no sense since the first thing that comes to mind to "fix" the design is to have the sister's legs visible on an exo control rig just like the arms and the suit's legs mounted behind the pilot...which just makes it even more like a miniature Dreadknight, which I have and still do consider to be an awful design.
Ah well, the top half is decent, hopefully someone designs some chonkier, less daft legs for it, or at least that the 360 pics reveal it's not as dumb as it first appears.
Re: impracticality, I definitely like my 40k with its silliness, but I did emphasize that it was overblown not in the sense of impossibility but in the sense that it just didn't look cool. Compared to other imperial power armor suits it just looks like it doesn't have the same weight. Like, if imperials had the engineering to do something with engineering for such strong structures in such a little space, why would their other suits have giant feet often with quad toes, shortish limbs, thick everything, etc.? Like, Eldar and necrons have thinner models but their technology is completely different. It doesn't fit an imperial sense of functionality.
Do sisters have their own Cawl or... how is it that they have such advanced looking warwalkers, polished and smooth like eldar?
Frankly, this whole high fantasy grim dark melange is frustrating. Who are these factions? Anymore, it is hard to tell. Tau hover tanks? Nah, imperial. Eldar skimmer bikes? Nah, imperial. Eldar light walkers? Nah, imperial. Empire crumbling from corruption and constant war? Nah, humanity is advancing rapidly after a ten thousand year decline... wtf.
Looks like the suits from Appleseed. They also got already nicknames from the community such as "Nundam" and "Babecarrier".
I am still a bit on the fence about them though. Still need to see all available weapon options and the sister's arms might be a bit too thin.
I'd recommend a variation on the first... gNundam. That thing looks ridiculous... like someone in the grimdark fictional future saw the old "you get a car! you get a car! and you get a car!" and decided to do that with a dread. Of course, it's no more or less ridiculous than the average space marine chapter having almost as many different models of dreadnoughts to choose from than ranks of marines in the chapter...
jeff white wrote: Do sisters have their own Cawl or... how is it that they have such advanced looking warwalkers, polished and smooth like eldar?
Frankly, this whole high fantasy grim dark melange is frustrating. Who are these factions? Anymore, it is hard to tell. Tau hover tanks? Nah, imperial. Eldar skimmer bikes? Nah, imperial. Eldar light walkers? Nah, imperial. Empire crumbling from corruption and constant war? Nah, humanity is advancing rapidly after a ten thousand year decline... wtf.
Sisters work with the Ad Mech as normal but how it works in terms of maintaince etc has never been discussed - its assumed its a combination of Ad Mech support and ability to maintain some themselves.
I don't mind the Imperium getting "some" stuff in line with the timelines desperation and bringing back old tech which they did have - however as the other factions are so neglected it is not helpful.
Tau lost interest in their effective use of hover tanks and aircraft and now just Build big walkers which i don;t like but oh well.
Eldar are breaking up their own society again
I really don't like this new model - for me its like the Tau - so many things that they could have done - and we got this :(
MajorWesJanson wrote: Depending g on speed, they could fit in the fast attack slot, like dragoons for admech
I've been wondering if they'll introduce bikes for sisters, something between the lines of GSC and Primaris outriders
Why does every faction have to have every thing? I wish that GW would do the fundamentals well rather than toss shiny trinkets into the open maw of the market to see what sticks. I mean, we get this ridiculous nundam nonsense with half the eldar range older than dirt. Why should every faction have every resource to serve as a solitary fighting force? SoB are supposed to work with other forces during large and special conflicts... now they are some kind of army, like any other army, off for galactic conquest to fight ork hordes and daemon princes equally well and alone? I would imagine that in such cases, allies in the forms of imp guard, and inquisition plus grey knights, would be called in rather than nundam battalions... maybe my feelings would change if the model weren’t so bad. But imp guard have walkers... why would SoB dedicate resources to such when allies do it better? Are the SoB that independently resourceful? Where is their Cawl?
MajorWesJanson wrote: Depending g on speed, they could fit in the fast attack slot, like dragoons for admech
I've been wondering if they'll introduce bikes for sisters, something between the lines of GSC and Primaris outriders
Why does every faction have to have every thing? I wish that GW would do the fundamentals well rather than toss shiny trinkets into the open maw of the market to see what sticks. I mean, we get this ridiculous nundam nonsense with half the eldar range older than dirt. Why should every faction have every resource to serve as a solitary fighting force? SoB are supposed to work with other forces during large and special conflicts... now they are some kind of army, like any other army, off for galactic conquest to fight ork hordes and daemon princes equally well and alone? I would imagine that in such cases, allies in the forms of imp guard, and inquisition plus grey knights, would be called in rather than nundam battalions... maybe my feelings would change if the model weren’t so bad. But imp guard have walkers... why would SoB dedicate resources to such when allies do it better? Are the SoB that independently resourceful? Where is their Cawl?
I'm not saying I want bikes, or more walkers for sisters. I'm wondering if they'll get some bikes, not hoping for it. I'm quite content with the models sisters have currently, and save for some of the finecast models being remade in plastic (Multipart crusaders, please), I'd have be fine if all we got was the palantine for some HQ variety.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Depending g on speed, they could fit in the fast attack slot, like dragoons for admech
I've been wondering if they'll introduce bikes for sisters, something between the lines of GSC and Primaris outriders
Why does every faction have to have every thing? I wish that GW would do the fundamentals well rather than toss shiny trinkets into the open maw of the market to see what sticks. I mean, we get this ridiculous nundam nonsense with half the eldar range older than dirt. Why should every faction have every resource to serve as a solitary fighting force? SoB are supposed to work with other forces during large and special conflicts... now they are some kind of army, like any other army, off for galactic conquest to fight ork hordes and daemon princes equally well and alone? I would imagine that in such cases, allies in the forms of imp guard, and inquisition plus grey knights, would be called in rather than nundam battalions... maybe my feelings would change if the model weren’t so bad. But imp guard have walkers... why would SoB dedicate resources to such when allies do it better? Are the SoB that independently resourceful? Where is their Cawl?
I'm not saying I want bikes, or more walkers for sisters. I'm wondering if they'll get some bikes, not hoping for it. I'm quite content with the models sisters have currently, and save for some of the finecast models being remade in plastic (Multipart crusaders, please), I'd have be fine if all we got was the palantine for some HQ variety.
I wonder how they compare in size to the walkers in terms of conversions/ proxies
I like these more than GWs other Exosuits (dreadknight, Centurions). It just seems more cohesive and also pretty clearly imperial. If people don't like them they can also pretty easily be proxied with Sob Terminators you get from other producers.
Sgt. Cortez wrote: I like these more than GWs other Exosuits (dreadknight, Centurions). It just seems more cohesive and also pretty clearly imperial. If people don't like them they can also pretty easily be proxied with Sob Terminators you get from other producers.
I guess, but I think they will look tiny in comparison. These Parangon battlesuits aren't really Terminator-sized. I would rather use converted Penitent Engines instead.
Weirdly enough, I never thought GW would make new units for SoB like this. I was thinking more about variants like the Zephyrim - basically Seraphims with power swords in essence. But then, it's true they're already stretching it with what they have currently...Still, another kind of walker ? Never expected this.
I thought they would just remake the missionary priests and maybe the crusaders and death cultists in plastic kits, and be done with it for the V9 codex. Looks like it's not the case...and as a main SoB player, that's a good thing to me.
I don't like the sword and I would probably not use the ornament on top plus give her a helmet instead. Other than that it looks like a relative of the knight which makes about as much sense as anything else. Miniaturisation is ever the mark of progress.
I do think it's an odd choice of a unit for the Sisters of Battle. A new kind of bike would've been more fun, or some new transport vehicles.
I am not very good with mage manip but trying to mess with it to make it more like something I woould be happy to field with the rest of the sisters. Not sure what would work for the head but likely something out there - hopefully people will do something like they did arms for that horrible Tau mech
I like the design in a general way. Well, I like most of it. It's proportional and visually in theme with the army. As long as you obfuscate the human component as much as possible, it's a fine miniature.
The problem here is somewhat unrelated to the model itself. There is simply no place in most of 40k (Tau being the exception) for the intricacy of a Shirow Landmate's double joint knee, fluid torso rotation centred on the pilots spine or even the very proportions an ape system forces on the design. The ape system is reasonable, or at least tries to appear reasonable, whereas most of 40K makes no such attempts.
Regardless of how close the designers would adhere to the theoretical realities of a human piloting an armoured suit, the end result will always be at odds with a setting where half dead superhumans are entombed in machines of war, where the spirits of dead aliens animate constructs of smart bone or where ordinary humans are lobotomized into tracked killer cyborgs.
Not every attempt at reason makes the narrative better. Especially in 40k.
Mr Morden wrote: I am not very good with mage manip but trying to mess with it to make it more like something I woould be happy to field with the rest of the sisters. Not sure what would work for the head but likely something out there - hopefully people will do something like they did arms for that horrible Tau mech
Spoiler:
You have created a faceless angel from the Diablo franchise. Just add wings and you are good to go.
Mr Morden wrote: I am not very good with mage manip but trying to mess with it to make it more like something I woould be happy to field with the rest of the sisters. Not sure what would work for the head but likely something out there - hopefully people will do something like they did arms for that horrible Tau mech
Spoiler:
You have created a faceless angel from the Diablo franchise. Just add wings and you are good to go.
Apart from the shoulder pads that gives them a very wraithguard/blade silhouette/vibe. I guess the Sisters have had enough of the Ad Mech stealing Eldar units and have joined in the party.
Mr Morden wrote: I am not very good with mage manip but trying to mess with it to make it more like something I woould be happy to field with the rest of the sisters. Not sure what would work for the head but likely something out there - hopefully people will do something like they did arms for that horrible Tau mech
Spoiler:
Your version is an Adeptus Mechanicus automata. There's no place for the arms in the waist, and moving the poor sister higher up means she really has her legs cut (and her head too).
Think before cutting recklessly.
Rihgu wrote: I spent about 30 seconds to size a normal sister model based on face (about 125% from the display picture looked right to me in the time I spent)
this is the result
Spoiler:
It shows it's possible to put the legs in the armor's thighs.
Well I kinda know what they were thinking, sort of. I mean it could be better (much better) but it is not something worst.
My problem is rather what its role is? Power Mace/Sword plus heavy bolter/flamer/melta and what ever is on top can end up being very costly.
Actually, it would be rather cool if those would be geared up for close combat like some nun battle knights. If holy trinity is not enough then oversized mace can do the job. Or better, eviscerator(s).
These are awesome. Finally a set of walkers whose pilots are still holy enough to receive their Order's trait and use AoF!
Righteous, holy walkers to complement the penitent ones we already have.
Now as for design: what we need is a) a side by side photo of a regular sister position so that her head is even with the pilot's head and b) a side view to see how deep the thigh sleeve is at the knee level.
The first tells us whether the pilot's shoulders are as wide as they should be, whether the arms are as long as they should be and where the sister's feet are.
Here's my guess: the side by side will prove the shoulders and arms are dead on. And the arch of her foot is directly over the hinge pin at the knee. Imagine that she's wearing stiletto heels so long the she's standing en pointe; her instep is at 180 degrees to her shin, but she doesn't slip off the pin because it's locked between the sole of the "shoe" and the heel.
The pic from the side will confirm whether or not the thigh of the suit, though narrow from the front, is DEEP enough to accommodate her foot at 90 degrees to her shin at the knee joint of the suit. If so, she's got all the range of motion she needs to operate a pedal that drives the pneumatics and gyroscopic stabilizers in the lower limb. She wouldn't even need to return her foot to a full 90 degrees- even if she could straighten it to 135, that still gives her 45 degrees of control.
Next time you're in your car, put your foot so that your sole is flat on the pedal. Then, keeping your thigh and knee still, increase the angle between your shin and your instep by 45 degrees.
If that can move your car (and obviously it will) it could control the lower part of the suit's leg while the pilot does a goose step to control the movement at the thigh.
This is even more feasible once you realize that the sister is fastened into a harness in such a way that she's hanging, not standing. That makes the ankle pivot that controls the lower leg of the suit easier for the pilot.
Could the suit's arm be placed in such a way to interact more directly with the pilot's arm? Maybe. But the truth is that the thumb operated joy stick probably gives you a greater degree of control. It's the machine that's doing all the work.
And some people are complaining now about how long the legs look compared to the torso; if you dropped the shoulders of the suit, the legs would look even longer compared to the torso.
And like I said, even if the models were worse looking than they are, I'd still field them, because a mortifier that gets Order traits and AoF is terrifying.
Personal I think they look great, but that's all in the eye of the beholder.
Tyel wrote: I don't begrudge Sisters their terminators/monstrous infantry - but yes, these seem to fall into that Centurion/Dreadknight abyss of "just why?"
Because one of the sculpting team made them. So they get rules now.
I still find it baffling, but we keep getting told that's how GW works.
And like I said, even if the models were worse looking than they are, I'd still field them, because a mortifier that gets Order traits and AoF is terrifying.
Indeed...that's the big difference that will make them really shine, IMHO. Bloody Rose Parangons will certainly be horrifying, assuming they keep the same rules of course.
The invictor has a marine sitting down in it, his legs arent moving.
You're judging the model by an assumption you've made that isnt based on anything.
You assume that's the case, but that's not necessarily how it works.
That's how the arms are supposed to work. And clearly, the SoB isn't neurally connected to the machine, like a Marine or penitent would be.
It's an ape system, except half of it doesn't work.
she very well could.... only her head pops out of the walker.
She could also simply have pedals in the legs to make each leg go forward/backward and a machine spirit that calculates the movements needed based on the groud layout.
That's how the arms are supposed to work. And clearly, the SoB isn't neurally connected to the machine, like a Marine or penitent would be.
It's an ape system, except half of it doesn't work.
New sisters of battle have the same implants than marines for power armors (as showed by the repentias). It's not a stretch then to believe they can have the same advantages than marines when it's about connecting them to external armor systems like centurions and such.
Of course, we're arguing about realism in an army with litteral church tanks, so having these Parangon battlesuits doesn't faze me.
The invictor has a marine sitting down in it, his legs arent moving.
You're judging the model by an assumption you've made that isnt based on anything.
The Invictor has a control stick, a set of throttles and pedals. The idea of piloting a walking machine with a control stick is silly, but it's clearly how the machine is supposed to work. It's just as clear that the idea behind the SOB suit is an ape system, much like the Dreadknight.
VladimirHerzog wrote: She could also simply have pedals in the legs to make each leg go forward/backward and a machine spirit that calculates the movements needed based on the groud layout.
Yeah, and maybe she has a minibar tucked away in the torso armour.
Look, if the suit has the means to allow the pilot functional control over the legs without the ape system, there's absolutely no reason to expose the arms of the pilot. Either the legs don't work, or the arm ape system is pointless.
Which, again, is the whole problem. They could have put a Sister covered with a shroud in the chest cavity of the suit, say her faith is so great it caused her mortal body to fail, but also allowed her to power the machine and continue to fight for the God Emperor and it would have been a better for the setting than this attempt at realism that trips halfway through.
The Invictor has a control stick, a set of throttles and pedals. The idea of piloting a walking machine with a control stick is silly, but it's clearly how the machine is supposed to work. It's just as clear that the idea behind the SOB suit is an ape system, much like the Dreadknight.
This is the Dreadknight :
You can clearly see the legs don't have anything to mimic their moves. They're just resting on pedals.
So even if the Parangon works like the Dreadknight, just with legs inside the amor's thighs instead of outside, it's still not exactly an ape system. You just assume it's the case with no proof.
I guess we'll have to wait for GW to tell us exactly how it works. Or not.
The invictor has a marine sitting down in it, his legs arent moving.
You're judging the model by an assumption you've made that isnt based on anything.
The Invictor has a control stick, a set of throttles and pedals. The idea of piloting a walking machine with a control stick is silly, but it's clearly how the machine is supposed to work. It's just as clear that the idea behind the SOB suit is an ape system, much like the Dreadknight.
VladimirHerzog wrote: She could also simply have pedals in the legs to make each leg go forward/backward and a machine spirit that calculates the movements needed based on the groud layout.
Yeah, and maybe she has a minibar tucked away in the torso armour.
Look, if the suit has the means to allow the pilot functional control over the legs without the ape system, there's absolutely no reason to expose the arms of the pilot. Either the legs don't work, or the arm ape system is pointless.
Which, again, is the whole problem. They could have put a Sister covered with a shroud in the chest cavity of the suit, say her faith is so great it caused her mortal body to fail, but also allowed her to power the machine and continue to fight for the God Emperor and it would have been a better for the setting than this attempt at realism that trips halfway through.
But a Sisters Dreadnought is basically the Penetant Engine in design.
Also you're forgetting this is the Imperium. It's fully possible that they've a specific diagram for building a spinal or nervous or mental connection to allow leg movement control, but not one for arm or upper body control. So being the Imperium they adapt rather than back-engineer the technology. So they've nervous connections for the legs which means she doesn't have to be able to move her legs to move the mech; and the upper body requires a different control system entirely.
Or perhaps the legs have an advanced intelligence system and all she needs to be able to do is move her thighs for the hip and upper leg portions and the machine uses sensors and such to move the lower leg automatically. Much like how some prosthetics in the real world work to allow those with missing limbs greater control with a limited command of a "stump". Only in this case the stump is the sisters full leg.
This is clearly emulating the Terminator style class. She's built into it rather than infront of it (an element that might well appear clearer when seen in the real world and from different angles).
I'd been joking about how much the 9e mission packet reminded me of the Warmachine Steamroller packet, but now we're getting TAGs in 40k too? What's next? Token-based alternating activations from Legion?
I personally don't like it, but I'm sure many will. Part of what I liked about the SoB relaunch was how everything looked so "old school", and this doesn't. It looks like something Cawl had a hand in designing. But like I said, that's just my subjective opinion.
My question is: Would SoB players have been happier with this, or a plastic Repressor? Replace something that was taken away, or get something new?
I hate the dreadknight, I think it was one of the dumbest designs 40k ever received. Partly because it resembled nothing else and partly the design.
I don't hate these as much, as the pilot is more fully integrated into the suit, with control armatures separate. I imagine there's either an accelerator button on the joysticks or they've got accelerator pedals in the thigh armour.
They also relate to the penitent engines (in that they're the same size and rely on a pilot strapped to the front) so, unlike the dreadknight, have at least some internal precedence and logic.
I don't think they're amazing but they make more sense to me.
That's how the arms are supposed to work. And clearly, the SoB isn't neurally connected to the machine, like a Marine or penitent would be.
It's an ape system, except half of it doesn't work.
New sisters of battle have the same implants than marines for power armors (as showed by the repentias). It's not a stretch then to believe they can have the same advantages than marines when it's about connecting them to external armor systems like centurions and such.
Of course, we're arguing about realism in an army with litteral church tanks, so having these Parangon battlesuits doesn't faze me.
Ok, I haven't read up on any new SoB lore in a while, but are you absolutely sure that's a Black Carapace implant and not just a black leotard to preserve the Repentia's modesty?
On the topic of the Sister Suit - besides looking weirdly thin for an Imperial design, I'm having the same problem with it as I have with the Dreadknight, Invictor Warsuit or Stormsurge: why is this thing open-topped? At least wear a helmet!
After plenty of deliberation, and taking my queues from the centurions and terminators (which have better proportions IMO) I think the models maybe salvageable. And actually with very little careful modification these could look really good!
Ok, I haven't read up on any new SoB lore in a while, but are you absolutely sure that's a Black Carapace implant and not just a black leotard to preserve the Repentia's modesty?
Spoiler:
we clearly see that they have black carapace IO/ports on their shoulders
Ok, I haven't read up on any new SoB lore in a while, but are you absolutely sure that's a Black Carapace implant and not just a black leotard to preserve the Repentia's modesty?
Spoiler:
we clearly see that they have black carapace IO/ports on their shoulders
Well lets think about that a minute. Yeah, they do have i/o ports. That's not necessarily black carapace, it could just be standard mutilation bionics. But it does lead you to think about space marine power armour fluff.
Thats pretty much what it is, but with a grimdark paintjob and a more dynamic pose.
Its heavily different to me, just b.c its a close idea doesn't mean its the same in looks, feel, proportions, style, etc...
The GW one has fixed guns on the top, its very top heavy, limited head room and visibility, so you have to sit upright at all times and face anything you are shooting at. The legs are not in a way to be dynamic at all, the feet can not grip anything and are just flat with a camel toe making it not ideal to even walk in a war setting. The shoulders are wide and tall meaning you'll be shot at more int he upper 1/2 making it harder to handle the movements.
Yes these are all "real world" but they to me didnt even care that the game is about war and they just want a statue on the battlefield. When you look at the Repentia and even Mortifiers (which are also odd to me but better at least) they seem to seem better.
But remember i am also a painter, modeler, hobbyist before a gamer. So the looks of models matters to me.
Its heavily different to me, just b.c its a close idea doesn't mean its the same in looks, feel, proportions, style, etc...
The GW one has fixed guns on the top, its very top heavy, limited head room and visibility, so you have to sit upright at all times and face anything you are shooting at. The legs are not in a way to be dynamic at all, the feet can not grip anything and are just flat with a camel toe making it not ideal to even walk in a war setting. The shoulders are wide and tall meaning you'll be shot at more int he upper 1/2 making it harder to handle the movements.
Yes these are all "real world" but they to me didnt even care that the game is about war and they just want a statue on the battlefield. When you look at the Repentia and even Mortifiers (which are also odd to me but better at least) they seem to seem better.
But remember i am also a painter, modeler, hobbyist before a gamer. So the looks of models matters to me.
fair enought but can i point you to our old friend the boxnaught? This sister model seems much more practical than the dread.
Attempts at practical in 40k is what gets you stuff like the Centurions, the Invictor or the Primaris buggy. Or the dreaded Dreadknight.
Maybe it's the age talking, but 40k designs were better when they were more concerned with looking cool in that unique grimdark way, than with being 'practical' or 'realistic'.
ceorron wrote: After plenty of deliberation, and taking my queues from the centurions and terminators (which have better proportions IMO)
Model with arms coming out of ears and one with legs coming out of rib cage has better proportions? Le what?
I love terminators, but yeah the armour looks very painful to wear and probably in need of surgical amputation to fit in.
Well we are talking about a galactic empire that's so afraid of computers they basically use peoples heads torn from their bodies to make servitors for all basic computing.
Rihgu wrote: I spent about 30 seconds to size a normal sister model based on face (about 125% from the display picture looked right to me in the time I spent)
this is the result
Spoiler:
If this is accurate, this model is a lot bigger than I thought it was. It will also fix most of my objections because then the pilot would fit in the model, even if in a less than optimal for comfort position. The sacrifices one must make for the God-Emperor.
Gadzilla666 wrote: My question is: Would SoB players have been happier with this, or a plastic Repressor? Replace something that was taken away, or get something new?
Would largely depend on what the repressor looked like...
There is something to be said about waiting over a decade for a genuinely new unit and then receiving something that makes you wish for the old days when you'd get rules for things without models...
Shorten the arms perhaps. A more dynamic post to hide the legs. Perhaps just pull it all in and make a terminator depending on how the model fits together.
I personally don't like it because I find the legs jarring. While I think the legs are fine for the mech as a whole, they are modeled in a way that just makes the pilot look like she has really massive legs.
I won't say this is the dumbest model ever, but it certainly draws from some ODD sources. Dreadknight, Centurion, and the new Dreadnaught suit thing. Nothing of these really speak to the Sisters Schtick. Call me old fashioned, but I don't get or understand where GW wants to go with their recent ideas. This, the ATVs, the Eradicators. Very confused.
(If they just make another Devastator kit like the Hellblasters with three kinds of meltaguns we may notice they're slowly turning Devastators into one whole unit for each heavy weapon option with three superficially-different versions of the gun, put it in Gravis armour and we won't notice they should just have stuck to the Devastators. Next up: Phobos armour with three different kinds of flamers!)
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: I won't say this is the dumbest model ever, but it certainly draws from some ODD sources. Dreadknight, Centurion, and the new Dreadnaught suit thing. Nothing of these really speak to the Sisters Schtick. Call me old fashioned, but I don't get or understand where GW wants to go with their recent ideas. This, the ATVs, the Eradicators. Very confused.
This, my friend, is from an anime called appleseed.
Like many japanese stories, it is a story. But the legs fitting into the big legs but the scrawny arms sitting just below the mechanical arms? That's appleseed.
I'm not saying anyone is wrong, but this isn't Appleseed, it's 40k. I don't think there is much cross over in those demos, but I don't know manga, so I am likely wrong. Is there a secret contingent in the writing staff that secretly loves anime? OMG THE TAU WRITERS HAVE TAKEN OVER....
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: I'm not saying anyone is wrong, but this isn't Appleseed, it's 40k. I don't think there is much cross over in those demos, but I don't know manga, so I am likely wrong. Is there a secret contingent in the writing staff that secretly loves anime? OMG THE TAU WRITERS HAVE TAKEN OVER....
I'm not beeching or moaning. I'm just showing you were these concepts came from. Add more skulls, sure. But its a google image, i'm pretty sure it doesn't have a virus. Just look at it, and tell me what you think. This came out in what the 90s? the noughts?
edit: yeah, without involving red space socialist communist tau infiltrators, just look at the picture and tell me what you think.
Should've been Terminator armour. The Pentient Engine 'makes sense' insofar as, it doesn't, but strapping a drugged up nutjob who's supposed to die as penance anyway makes... well, it looks horrific and certainly is a death sentence.
The Nemesis Nun (K)Night by comparison just feels really... dumb-er? Especially now GW seem to be pushing Sisters as being the female equivalent of Marines more explicitly, I'm sure the Ecclesiarchy as the dosh to pay for some suits of Terminator armour.
But yeah, this isn't some 'bold new direction'. This is what, the 90s? Appleseed fans please correct me.
The manga is late 80s (85-89?). But the overall look doesn't really match up.
The human control arms for the robot arms isn't unique to (or even necessarily start with) Appleseed. The power loader from Aliens was 1986, with a similar setup. And Cameron based that on a short film he did in the late 70s (Xenogenesis), though the machine wasn't humanoid- the woman sat inside; but the controls are similar- raised hand grips attached to bars to move limbs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KpZRJ4HE4Q (about 9:00).
Its entirely possible that the designers were inspired by appleseed, but its long enough ago now that the current designers could have been inspired one of several things and thought it was the 'original.'
But yeah, this isn't some 'bold new direction'. This is what, the 90s? Appleseed fans please correct me.
The manga is late 80s (85-89?). But the overall look doesn't really match up.
The human control arms for the robot arms isn't unique to (or even necessarily start with) Appleseed. The power loader from Aliens was 1986, with a similar setup. And Cameron based that on a short film he did in the late 70s (Xenogenesis), though the machine wasn't humanoid- the woman sat inside; but the controls are similar- raised hand grips attached to bars to move limbs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KpZRJ4HE4Q (about 9:00).
Its entirely possible that the designers were inspired by appleseed, but its long enough ago now that the current designers could have been inspired one of several things and thought it was the 'original.'
Good point. Fashion recycles, this could have too. This isn't the hill i want to die on, but like i said i saw a version of appleseed within the last 6 months and it looks very similar to me. What the designers were thinking after the nemesis baby carrier? I don't know. But the first thing i thought when i saw that sob walker was: oh, appleseed. Take as you will.
I guess the big thing for me is that the Appleseed suits are actually designed to enclose the pilot, with a mechanical head for the armor., and the style of the limbs and shoulder pods is very different.
Its heavily different to me, just b.c its a close idea doesn't mean its the same in looks, feel, proportions, style, etc...
The GW one has fixed guns on the top, its very top heavy, limited head room and visibility, so you have to sit upright at all times and face anything you are shooting at. The legs are not in a way to be dynamic at all, the feet can not grip anything and are just flat with a camel toe making it not ideal to even walk in a war setting. The shoulders are wide and tall meaning you'll be shot at more int he upper 1/2 making it harder to handle the movements.
Yes these are all "real world" but they to me didnt even care that the game is about war and they just want a statue on the battlefield. When you look at the Repentia and even Mortifiers (which are also odd to me but better at least) they seem to seem better.
But remember i am also a painter, modeler, hobbyist before a gamer. So the looks of models matters to me.
fair enought but can i point you to our old friend the boxnaught? This sister model seems much more practical than the dread.
And I hate those models too. The old Dreads are terrible, i always hated their legs and looks.
My suspension of disbelief can handle the thigh gap, but the exposed head and arms...
Seriously, just shoot them in the face. Or arms. All that extra armor and mechanics easily rendered useless with minor firepower. Should have a rule where if an enemy hits it on a 6 they roll to wound against T3 and instant death the thing on success. It's just so gratingly stupid and made more so by how many dam times it's happened.
Centurions were miles better than this. At least they had the exposed parts in the BACK. At least the dreadknight pilot was a space marine in terminator armor with accompanying force field. At least goddam Murderfang didn't have his arm circuits exposed ready to be disabled by anyone with wire cutters. Yeah, to me these things are dumber than Murderfang.
NinthMusketeer wrote: My suspension of disbelief can handle the thigh gap, but the exposed head and arms...
Seriously, just shoot them in the face. Or arms. All that extra armor and mechanics easily rendered useless with minor firepower. Should have a rule where if an enemy hits it on a 6 they roll to wound against T3 and instant death the thing on success. It's just so gratingly stupid and made more so by how many dam times it's happened.
Centurions were miles better than this. At least they had the exposed parts in the BACK. At least the dreadknight pilot was a space marine in terminator armor with accompanying force field. At least goddam Murderfang didn't have his arm circuits exposed ready to be disabled by anyone with wire cutters. Yeah, to me these things are dumber than Murderfang.
You know that there is a helmet option for the head do you? It was shown in the video with the different weapon options. 40K combattant without helmets are generally stupid in my opinion since they fight in the age of the shrapnel and a variety of other weapon of the type yet it seems like even Primarchs like Guilliman go into battlefield with nothing to protect their precious brain. All in all, provided you model the Paragon Armors with helmets they will look like credible light walker/ heavy armor designed for close combat firefight and combat and fairly mobile.
PS: that's also considering it doesn't have some form of force field protection like a rosarius.
I mean if we want to talk about suspension of disbelief then terminators would probably be liquified inside their armor against weapons that don't even penetrate. It seems like a terrible metric to judge the setting.
I'll likely never buy these models, but they look cool enough to me that I will enjoy blowing them up.
NinthMusketeer wrote: My suspension of disbelief can handle the thigh gap, but the exposed head and arms...
Seriously, just shoot them in the face. Or arms. All that extra armor and mechanics easily rendered useless with minor firepower. Should have a rule where if an enemy hits it on a 6 they roll to wound against T3 and instant death the thing on success. It's just so gratingly stupid and made more so by how many dam times it's happened.
Centurions were miles better than this. At least they had the exposed parts in the BACK. At least the dreadknight pilot was a space marine in terminator armor with accompanying force field. At least goddam Murderfang didn't have his arm circuits exposed ready to be disabled by anyone with wire cutters. Yeah, to me these things are dumber than Murderfang.
Whilst your log isn’t awful, this applies to every Space Marine character / sergeant ever. Odd to only find fault now.
Also Centurions always looked like crud. Terrible proportions, design and the helmets were naff. Nah, can’t go along with ya there.
I like it, but I really do not like the legs and how the pilot goes in.
It really, really should have looked like the OG Dreaknight art.
See how the pilot's legs are integrated with the suit's legs? It would be less confusing on the eyes and we wouldn't then have 5 pages of discussion on how she fits in this thing. Maybe they'll get it right the 3rd time they do a mech suit mini (spoiler: They won't.)?
The whole new sister line up was great. it was inevitable that GW would design a meh one.
And yeah, meh. it's for certain not bad looking, i'd say it looks quite good compared to some other exemples brought up. But compared to the new sister range... ehhh
Gadzilla666 wrote: My question is: Would SoB players have been happier with this, or a plastic Repressor? Replace something that was taken away, or get something new?
Would largely depend on what the repressor looked like...
There is something to be said about waiting over a decade for a genuinely new unit and then receiving something that makes you wish for the old days when you'd get rules for things without models...
Shorten the arms perhaps. A more dynamic post to hide the legs. Perhaps just pull it all in and make a terminator depending on how the model fits together.
I was thinking of pretty much just a direct plastic copy of the old fw Repressor. Like I said, what I liked about the SoB relaunch was how much they look like the old models. I think your changes do help the mech suit though.
Daedalus81 wrote:I mean if we want to talk about suspension of disbelief then terminators would probably be liquified inside their armor against weapons that don't even penetrate. It seems like a terrible metric to judge the setting.
I'll likely never buy these models, but they look cool enough to me that I will enjoy blowing them up.
Yeah, looks good enough to kill, wouldn't want one myself. Pretty much my feelings on primaris vehicles. (Quite like most of their infantry though).
Voss wrote: The big similarity is 'Oh, wow, her poor legs...'
That's just the kit. The manga had plenty of technical shots of the landmates that made it look like Deunan actually fit inside without having her legs torn off beforehand.
I can't believe I'm first to point this out - NO BOOB PLATE!
For this reason alone I'm digging this model a lot.
As a devout Masamune Shirow fan, please leave Appleseed out of this discussion. Mr Shirow is actually very fussed about how tech works in his mangas, its a far cry from 40K "rule of cool". And I don't want to hear anything about the Anime or live action movie versions of his Mangas, those are all rubbish as far as I'm concerned. If you're interested in Appleseed or GITS, please read the mangas to get the undiluted brilliance of his genius!
I can imagine the hands being the only thing which mimic the wearer's movements in this new kit. The legs can be operated by a machine spirit in symbiose with the pilot, or via a neural link of sorts. Or heck the pilots can even be landmine victims! Making stuff up is what scifi is all about
This model and the accompanying artwork in the promo video is the first time I feel an urge to start collecting a SoB force. One of these suits accompanied wth the flying nuns just looks super inspiring! (Can even forgive the boobplates on the nuns for that one).
Funny, here I've been thinking I'd never collect SoB, Sisters of Silence were always the cooler ones for me, and a single kit opens up new avenues of thought...
As for the anatomical details of Landmate -style mecha, pls see attachment
My biggest question about this is how she is supposed to aim any of those weapons. Especially when bare-headed, because then there really is no display whatsoever to be able to see where the weapons are pointing at. With a fully automatic heavy weapon like a heavy bolter or the like that can make some sense, because you can walk the shots, but with a multi-melta, that really doesn't apply anymore. And that's for the arm weapons. The ones mounted above her will be even more fun. And, of course, will be an excellent way to end up very deaf very quickly.
Dolnikan wrote: My biggest question about this is how she is supposed to aim any of those weapons. Especially when bare-headed, because then there really is no display whatsoever to be able to see where the weapons are pointing at. With a fully automatic heavy weapon like a heavy bolter or the like that can make some sense, because you can walk the shots, but with a multi-melta, that really doesn't apply anymore. And that's for the arm weapons. The ones mounted above her will be even more fun. And, of course, will be an excellent way to end up very deaf very quickly.
It's been shown numerous times in the fiction that power armour has auto senses that will guide a wearer where to shoot, even without a helmet on. Wearers can either go on their own instincts or trust the armour to do the heavy lifting. A mech suit like that can easily have something similar built in to compensate for the pilot's lack of peripheral vision.
harlokin wrote: I think the 'nundam' looks great, really nice and sleek, and clearly SoB; a non-squicky alternative to the penitent engine.
It's an Imperium unit, specifically one from the faction of OTT religious nutters - "nice and sleek" is close to the opposite of the right look for this kit...
harlokin wrote: I think the 'nundam' looks great, really nice and sleek, and clearly SoB; a non-squicky alternative to the penitent engine.
It's an Imperium unit, specifically one from the faction of OTT religious nutters - "nice and sleek" is close to the opposite of the right look for this kit...
1. The suit's legs are too far apart for a human to fit their legs in them.
2. The thighs of the suit are too long for the pilots knees to be at the suit's knees, but seem too short for their feet to fit in them above the knees.
3. While not uncommon in 40K models, this suit has no peripheral vision. She has less than a 180 degree view.
That assumes legs are in there. Are we sure the pilots aren't sitting there ala tau suits? These don't look to be piloted by moving normally like power armour but via controls. Pilot orders suit move, suit moves. There would be no need for legs to be in there physically to move. Indeed there's no requirement for pilot to even have legs. And def no need to have legs inside suits legs.
I think that the difference with the miniature is that the miniature has a more chunky and tall upper body. Perhaps is the contrast of the really thin legs with the chunky upper body.
Perhaps trimming a bit the upper body and raising the head a bit to match more the art in the video or adding a stylish faulds fantasy female armour like in the waist area to make the lower body more chunky and feminine will improve it.
Overall I think it looks cool and is a step in the right direction. I just hope that the kit comes with the options to dynamically pos it and is not a static kit with this position.
I don't mind the model on the whole. It looks ok, not great though. I'm not convinced that a person would fit into it, but I think centurions are a worse example of this. I put this warsuit as better than centurions, an a par with terminators or how space marines can't fit their legs inside their power armour on some models.
By biggest gripe has to be the styling of the model. I want SOB with a more steampunk aesthetic, big exposed cogs and visible machinery. The shape of the arms and legs are too sleek and puts me much more in mind of Eldar than SOB or the Imperium in general.
I love it. Although, looks at army with two imagifier, Celestians, Repentia, two exorcist and two retributors. There’s not enough slots. Don’t make me choose. :O
BTW did the trailer artwork maybes imply new models or just style? Two top characters and lots of sisters with power and chainswords...
Priest will get his own thing as you can take him inGuard army.
I think it tells you something when Dark Eldar are meant to be the next codex, yet GW have absolutely nothing worthwhile to showcase for them so they're instead previewing the SoB Dreadknight no one asked for.
As to the model itself, I just can't see it as being a coherent whole. It looks more like 2-3 entirely different walkers have been inexpertly mashed together. Hence why we've got these slim, feminine legs (which I guess the Imperium can just do now?), yet the top half appears to be the better part of an entire cathedral.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: I won't say this is the dumbest model ever, but it certainly draws from some ODD sources. Dreadknight, Centurion, and the new Dreadnaught suit thing. Nothing of these really speak to the Sisters Schtick. Call me old fashioned, but I don't get or understand where GW wants to go with their recent ideas. This, the ATVs, the Eradicators. Very confused.
This, my friend, is from an anime called appleseed.
Like many japanese stories, it is a story. But the legs fitting into the big legs but the scrawny arms sitting just below the mechanical arms? That's appleseed.
NinthMusketeer wrote: My suspension of disbelief can handle the thigh gap, but the exposed head and arms...
Seriously, just shoot them in the face. Or arms. All that extra armor and mechanics easily rendered useless with minor firepower. Should have a rule where if an enemy hits it on a 6 they roll to wound against T3 and instant death the thing on success. It's just so gratingly stupid and made more so by how many dam times it's happened.
Centurions were miles better than this. At least they had the exposed parts in the BACK. At least the dreadknight pilot was a space marine in terminator armor with accompanying force field. At least goddam Murderfang didn't have his arm circuits exposed ready to be disabled by anyone with wire cutters. Yeah, to me these things are dumber than Murderfang.
Just shoot them in the head or arms to circumvent the suit's Armour?
If you apply this way of thinking you can trash a LOT of 40K models. Want some examples? Here we go:
The aim of the hobby is to have a collection of different models in the glass cabinet. Nobody wants to have a legion of identical clones who adhere slavishly to an imagined sense of realism.
What would be the outcome of realism anyway? Well, look into the real world. You will have tanks, artillery, aircraft & unarmoured infantry.
So please GW, trash all power armour, titans and walkers. We the consumer want REALISM not COOL models.
Grimtuff wrote: I like it, but I really do not like the legs and how the pilot goes in.
It really, really should have looked like the OG Dreaknight art.
See how the pilot's legs are integrated with the suit's legs? It would be less confusing on the eyes and we wouldn't then have 5 pages of discussion on how she fits in this thing. Maybe they'll get it right the 3rd time they do a mech suit mini (spoiler: They won't.)?
thats exactly the same as the sororitas design tho.... the pilots knees don't line up with the walker's knees
Yeah, that and the Primaris buggy are the only things in 9E so far that I just wouldn't field based on the model, barring some inspiration for a cooler looking kitbash or conversion.
So I guess this is a more general purpose "big" with better armor and an anti tank gun option, but less killy than the engines. Theres a place for it but again, too goofy for my tastes.
VladimirHerzog wrote: thats exactly the same as the sororitas design tho.... the pilots knees don't line up with the walker's knees
How is that important? The legs are certainly controled thanks to a sopisticated array of sensors that don't shadow the movements like it's the case for the arms, but picks up muscle twitches and movements of the feet and translate them into movements. As to why the same system isn't used for the arms it can be for more precision in the movement of the arms since those things are supposed to fight in close combat or technical limitations due to the size of cogitators designed by the Imperium to automatise processes like movements, having both arms and legs fully automated would require the suit to be bigger and have a full cockpit array which would make fighting in close combat more difficult and the suit to be a bigger target which would require more armor to survive and then you have a completely different class of weapon from light walker to a large scale one. The other option could be a full neural and spinal interface, but the Imperium seems to be unable to deconnect people from those making it problematic since being plugged in becomes a death sentence and you can't use that person in any other position than as suit pilot.
VladimirHerzog wrote: thats exactly the same as the sororitas design tho.... the pilots knees don't line up with the walker's knees
How is that important? The legs are certainly controled thanks to a sopisticated array of sensors that don't shadow the movements like it's the case for the arms, but picks up muscle twitches and movements of the feet and translate them into movements. As to why the same system isn't used for the arms it can be for more precision in the movement of the arms since those things are supposed to fight in close combat or technical limitations due to the size of cogitators designed by the Imperium to automatise processes like movements, having both arms and legs fully automated would require the suit to be bigger and have a full cockpit array which would make fighting in close combat more difficult and the suit to be a bigger target which would require more armor to survive and then you have a completely different class of weapon from light walker to a large scale one. The other option could be a full neural and spinal interface, but the Imperium seems to be unable to deconnect people from those making it problematic since being plugged in becomes a death sentence and you can't use that person in any other position than as suit pilot.
thats what i'm saying. People are arguing that the paragon is unpractical and grimtuff here was saying that the dreadknight was practical and that the legs on it made more sense than on the paragon.
Not liking a model because of its looks is fine, but trying to apply logic that isnt present in 40k and even comparing it to the exact same thing makes no sense to me and isnt an agument against it.
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but is it possible the pilot's knees bend out the back? We don't have any pictures of the back, but the thighs might only be armored at the front, letting shins swing out when crouching. Really, I think these suffer from the same issue as the centurions and the dreadknights, which is that their pose is so static. They're just... standing there. A walking pose with a bent knees would better communicate how they're supposed to function.
Alternatively, add some space for the legs move around. Give those mechs some thicc thighs and wide hips.
And add a canopy to protect the heads. I wonder if I could find some frog helmets at the right scale.
I don't know why GW persists with battlesuit walkers. Maybe the Mortifier/penitent engines were decent because they were based on a pre-existing model but every other battlesuit walkers looks awful.
VladimirHerzog wrote: thats exactly the same as the sororitas design tho.... the pilots knees don't line up with the walker's knees
How is that important? The legs are certainly controled thanks to a sopisticated array of sensors that don't shadow the movements like it's the case for the arms, but picks up muscle twitches and movements of the feet and translate them into movements. As to why the same system isn't used for the arms it can be for more precision in the movement of the arms since those things are supposed to fight in close combat or technical limitations due to the size of cogitators designed by the Imperium to automatise processes like movements, having both arms and legs fully automated would require the suit to be bigger and have a full cockpit array which would make fighting in close combat more difficult and the suit to be a bigger target which would require more armor to survive and then you have a completely different class of weapon from light walker to a large scale one. The other option could be a full neural and spinal interface, but the Imperium seems to be unable to deconnect people from those making it problematic since being plugged in becomes a death sentence and you can't use that person in any other position than as suit pilot.
thats what i'm saying. People are arguing that the paragon is unpractical and grimtuff here was saying that the dreadknight was practical and that the legs on it made more sense than on the paragon. Not liking a model because of its looks is fine, but trying to apply logic that isnt present in 40k and even comparing it to the exact same thing makes no sense to me and isnt an agument against it.
The difference between that artwork and the Paragon is the pilot's legs are exposed. You don't need to make mental jumps when you can visually see how it is meant to go together. Whether it would practically work or not is a different matter. That Dreadknight art has the DK's legs set up like those stilt shoes, where the "knee" and "shin" parts of the DK's legs are simply extensions of the pilot's feet if you will. The Paragon does not have this and it leaves it up to the individual's own interpretation to see where the legs exactly go in it.
Note also how I used a very particular artwork of the DK that appeared in the 5th ed GK codex, which looks not at all like the actual mini. Nowhere did I say the DK looks good or is practical.
Weapons: Power sword S+1 AP3 D d3 damage.
Multi-Melta: Same as regular multi-melta
Flamer: See Heavy Flamer
Cost: I'll say with the above statline about 100 points, must be taken in squads of 3, but can be independent after deployment. So basically a Sentinel on Steroids.
Weapons: Power sword S+1 AP3 D d3 damage.
Multi-Melta: Same as regular multi-melta
Flamer: See Heavy Flamer
Cost: I'll say with the above statline about 100 points, must be taken in squads of 3, but can be independent after deployment. So basically a Sentinel on Steroids.
Weapons: Power sword S+1 AP3 D d3 damage.
Multi-Melta: Same as regular multi-melta
Flamer: See Heavy Flamer
Cost: I'll say with the above statline about 100 points, must be taken in squads of 3, but can be independent after deployment. So basically a Sentinel on Steroids.
Any one want the Over/under?
Plus some sort of special stratagem or act of faith, Six-inch Heels of High Glory, effectively a guaranteed 12”charge A +1, S +3, AP 3, D 3 on the charge.
Weapons: Power sword S+1 AP3 D d3 damage.
Multi-Melta: Same as regular multi-melta
Flamer: See Heavy Flamer
Cost: I'll say with the above statline about 100 points, must be taken in squads of 3, but can be independent after deployment. So basically a Sentinel on Steroids.
Weapons: Power sword S+1 AP3 Dd3 damage.
Multi-Melta: Same as regular multi-melta
Twin Heavy Flamer or Twin Stormbolter: See Heavy Flamer
Because I don't actually know: are Celestians just WS 4+? Because by the helmets, these look like Celestians.
Though the two shoulder mounted weapons shown look like missile launchers or twin heavy bolters to me.
Though i suppose I can't dismiss the possibility that they're 'Paragon Bolters' with some new statline.
Most of the people here are looking at the wrong thing.
The important thing isn't how they look, the important thing is if they count as Infantry or not.
T4+ 2+(in cover) immune to rend -2 4++ multiwound models with heavy bolters and at least some melee ability? Will be awesome with fair points cost. Throw in +1S and +1 Attack from aura buffs and these things could SHRED.
I actually didn't really look at the guns before but with MM and HB as an option, if they're infantry they get the 10/20 pricepoints which would be pretty crazy. Also, who knows what the shoulder mounted guns are. They don't loook like stormbolters and there's a missile variant.
Stats- it will be very much in line with PE/Morties. Save might be 3+.
BUT (and this is the most important thing about THIS walker):
It is still righteous, and not fallen, which means it will get Order Trait + AoF (which the PE and Morties DON'T get, because they are fallen).
That's also why this looks clean and sleek vs the grimdark tortured look of the PE/ Mortie. And it does look holier than the PE and Mortie and I'm glad- it should. Faith and Order traits on a walker!
Some people obviously wanted a terminator equivalent, and they are comparing this to that idea. This is not meant to be a terminator equivalent; it is a PE/ Mortie equivalent. It will be statted and costed as such. Like PE's/ Morties, you will be able to take them in squads of up to 4, but you will not be required to do so.
As for proportion, here's a side by side with the PE:
My crop on the PE caught 1-2 more MM of base, which is why the PE pilot looks 1-2 MM higher. But you can see fairly clearly in a side by side that all the points of articulation on both suits line up and all the points of articulation in the pilots line up. I like ALL of the kits, but if you forced me to rank them, I'd say my fave is the classic PE, then the Paragon, then PE and Mortie tied for last place, with slight edge to Mortie because of the Iron Maiden pilot option.
Note: I uploaded the comparison to the gallery because I wanted to post the image so no one had to click to see it, but I can't figure out how to make it work- putting the tags on either side but it didn't work. If someone wants to tell me how to fix it, I will. In the meantime, all I can do is post the link.
vipoid wrote: I think it tells you something when Dark Eldar are meant to be the next codex, yet GW have absolutely nothing worthwhile to showcase for them so they're instead previewing the SoB Dreadknight no one asked for.
As to the model itself, I just can't see it as being a coherent whole. It looks more like 2-3 entirely different walkers have been inexpertly mashed together. Hence why we've got these slim, feminine legs (which I guess the Imperium can just do now?), yet the top half appears to be the better part of an entire cathedral.
#justplayimperium
I think it looks ugly as hell.. the penitent engine is so much better a minature.
I really can't see these guys being more than S5, S6 is a pretty beefy vehicle statline, that you don't see outside of bikes. Plus I am betting these guys will be pretty swingy with the damage, hence dd3. GW hates flat damage melee on non-astartes, and I don't think these guys will be "Light invictors"
I have to image S5/T6 with a bunch of S6 attacks is good enough, but they will also not able to be spammed (Ro3) so you won't see them suddenly go character hunting. I honestly don't see the point. Did sisters need another Anti-tank/melee specialist unit? Are Repentias and and PEs not cutting the mustard? Well toss these in I guess? It's a real answer without a problem.
vipoid wrote: I think it tells you something when Dark Eldar are meant to be the next codex, yet GW have absolutely nothing worthwhile to showcase for them so they're instead previewing the SoB Dreadknight no one asked for.
As to the model itself, I just can't see it as being a coherent whole. It looks more like 2-3 entirely different walkers have been inexpertly mashed together. Hence why we've got these slim, feminine legs (which I guess the Imperium can just do now?), yet the top half appears to be the better part of an entire cathedral.
#justplayimperium
I think it looks ugly as hell.. the penitent engine is so much better a minature.
Yeah, I will own one of these about the same time that I buy a centurion or some of those ridiculous jumpycessors with the assault cannons.
vipoid wrote: I think it tells you something when Dark Eldar are meant to be the next codex, yet GW have absolutely nothing worthwhile to showcase for them so they're instead previewing the SoB Dreadknight no one asked for.
As to the model itself, I just can't see it as being a coherent whole. It looks more like 2-3 entirely different walkers have been inexpertly mashed together. Hence why we've got these slim, feminine legs (which I guess the Imperium can just do now?), yet the top half appears to be the better part of an entire cathedral.
#justplayimperium
I think it looks ugly as hell.. the penitent engine is so much better a minature.
Yeah, I will own one of these about the same time that I buy a centurion or some of those ridiculous jumpycessors with the assault cannons.
I actually like centurions This though just doesn't work for me..
I don't see Sisters running around with a S8 melee Walker, it's possible, then it would be good for bullying intercessors, but with less than 6 wounds and a 3+ save it's dogmeat in a single shooting phase. I have to imagine this is a pack vehicle, or squadron, like bikes or Sentinels. If you could only take three of these per list what would be the point?
I would be surprised if it doesn't have a stat line really close to that of the Mortifier Anchorite. Instead of a pair of Heavy Bolters/Heavy Flamers and a melee weapon, you have the shoulder weapon (Twin Heavy Bolters? or Cyclone Missile Launcher?), additional shooting gun (heavy version of the Holy Trinity), and the Melee Weapon (either a Blessed Blade or a Paragon Blade/Mace). The model also seems to have a holster on the hip, so a Bolt Pistol for extra measure?
Something tells me that is more than 1 large spru. There is no way they could fit 5 of those in the same box as a set of terminators, they look as big as a single old style dread, and those were 1 to a box. I'd say this is a character, maybe an HQ option? In which case WS/BS 2+ with 6-8 wounds and a 4++? That is if it's a character option. Single box. If it's a vehicle/elite thing, no way they fit 5 of those in a box unless we think they are Custodian Guard sized, which might make sense?
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: ...There is no way they could fit 5 of those in the same box as a set of terminators, they look as big as a single old style dread, and those were 1 to a box...
Look at the head, look at the base. If that head's the same size as a normal Battle Sister head there's no way that's a 60mm base.
And they could totally fit them five in a box. Terminators fit on two sprues with options, these are probably a bit bigger but three sprues and you could probably even do bolter and melta variants.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: ...There is no way they could fit 5 of those in the same box as a set of terminators, they look as big as a single old style dread, and those were 1 to a box...
Look at the head, look at the base. If that head's the same size as a normal Battle Sister head there's no way that's a 60mm base.
And they could totally fit them five in a box. Terminators fit on two sprues with options, these are probably a bit bigger but three sprues and you could probably even do bolter and melta variants.
I'll admit you have a good point, but I will see what GW does in the future. I don't see them putting a "squad" of these in a single box. GW always puts half a full squad 5 Astartes, 5 guardsmen, 5 Custodian guard, 3 Vertus Praetors, if they put 3 in a box I think that would be in keeping with their buy two boxes to get a full set type. Also likely not enough extras to fully kit them all out the way you want them.
AnomanderRake wrote: Considering the scale of the head that could easily be a 40mm base. They could be planning to sell boxes of five as Terminator-equivalents.
Just based on the video presentation, I suspect a box of 3. They go back to the trio shot several times in the second half of the video.
The battle sisters around them in the video also come up to roughly the waist of the model (the 'belt buckle' with the little skull), not sure offhand how that compares to a Terminator.
https://youtu.be/h4Ftvn2JYng?t=72
I'm sorry, every time I see this I think of Matrix Reloaded. Can we please choke and kill the idea of man piloted exosuits in 40k for non-tau factions? They look so dumb and stupid on every model. The reason the dreadnaught is cool is because you can believe it's a walking tank. This is just 1 lasgun shot to the face of the pilot and it's over. The Tau at least fully enclose theirs. This whole trend needs to be pushed down the stairs. The Sisters aren't about mechs. They are about faith. Nothing about this screams faith.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: ...Can we please choke and kill the idea of man piloted exosuits in 40k for non-tau factions? They look so dumb and stupid on every model...
How do you feel about Scout Sentinels? Eldar War Walkers?
AnomanderRake wrote: Considering the scale of the head that could easily be a 40mm base. They could be planning to sell boxes of five as Terminator-equivalents.
Just based on the video presentation, I suspect a box of 3. They go back to the trio shot several times in the second half of the video.
The battle sisters around them in the video also come up to roughly the waist of the model (the 'belt buckle' with the little skull), not sure offhand how that compares to a Terminator.
https://youtu.be/h4Ftvn2JYng?t=72
The Paragon is looking very much like Mortifier-sized. I suspect we may get another 2-model box. Otherwise, they need to cram a full suit onto one sprue, not to mention options for heads and weapons.
First Instinct is that they will need to push Mortifiers out of a list to make room.
I'm not sure If a little extra gun and order traits will do that. Getting a squad of Morties into close combat Is a glorious thing.
Edit: Now I've had a coffee and thought about it a bit. I have Heavy Bolter Retibuter squad in my list. If I took them out and possibly one Morty, that should create the points gap needed. I'm in.
NinthMusketeer wrote: My suspension of disbelief can handle the thigh gap, but the exposed head and arms...
Seriously, just shoot them in the face. Or arms. All that extra armor and mechanics easily rendered useless with minor firepower. Should have a rule where if an enemy hits it on a 6 they roll to wound against T3 and instant death the thing on success. It's just so gratingly stupid and made more so by how many dam times it's happened.
Centurions were miles better than this. At least they had the exposed parts in the BACK. At least the dreadknight pilot was a space marine in terminator armor with accompanying force field. At least goddam Murderfang didn't have his arm circuits exposed ready to be disabled by anyone with wire cutters. Yeah, to me these things are dumber than Murderfang.
If you apply this way of thinking you can trash a LOT of 40K models. Want some examples? Here we go:
In order: the pilot is pretty well shielded by the vehicle (and has a helmet) and is not all that much less armored himself, generally have potential replacements for driver & gunner who themselves are MUCH tougher than an baseline human, much smaller targets than the above and the riders have helmets (I hope...), and to all of those things they are much faster moving than whatever the nundam will be and some are airborne to boot. Some still bug me a little but I can brush it off.
- Tanks with Crew looking out of a hatch.
I can assume they go back down once combat starts proper and accept it well enough.
- ALL infantry models which don't wear a helmet.
Also grate on me to no end. One of my biggest peeves for 40k which the nundam has on top of those teeny cables.
Nobody wants to have a legion of identical clones who adhere slavishly to an imagined sense of realism.
Speaking of sense of realism, when did we jump from 'I don't like this model' to 'legion of identical clones' I think there are a number of stages to cross there.
What would be the outcome of realism anyway? Well, look into the real world. You will have tanks, artillery, aircraft & unarmoured infantry.
So please GW, trash all power armour, titans and walkers. We the consumer want REALISM not COOL models.
At risk of being impolite... did I trigger something? You really jumped the shark with this response.
I've already said they aren't going to be a hit with everyone, I like them, but then I also love nurglings, so I may be strange. That said, I also love the mental feats people are going through with it.
" Well I think it looks dumb, and feels stupid, I'll have 2 or three squads, but this is a miss with me GW ! " How does that make any sense at all ? Someone please explain it to me. As it looks like " I hate it, this sucks, give me three squads, but ya messed up GW ! "
I'd say I'm taking crazy pills but I see that claim a lot with GW items.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: I'll admit you have a good point, but I will see what GW does in the future. I don't see them putting a "squad" of these in a single box. GW always puts half a full squad 5 Astartes, 5 guardsmen, 5 Custodian guard, 3 Vertus Praetors, if they put 3 in a box I think that would be in keeping with their buy two boxes to get a full set type. Also likely not enough extras to fully kit them all out the way you want them.
I do like it when people make declarations involving "always" or "never", as there is usually a significant chance that they're talking out their backside - in this case, just off the top of my head, I'd direct you to the Tactical squad, Assault Intercessors, Hellblasters, Reivers, Incursors/Infiltrators, Cadian Infantry and Catachan Infantry as counter-examples, off the top of my head.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: This is just 1 lasgun shot to the face of the pilot and it's over. The Tau at least fully enclose theirs.
Force fields are a thing in 40k...
Not to mention that we know that there is a helmeted option in the kit (which indicates the pilots to be Celestians, from what I remember).
I'd guess these are going to be a box of three, priced somewhere between Outriders and Centurions. Two per box, priced along the same lines as the Penitent Engines, wouldn't be a huge surprise, but it would be disappointing.
Depends on size but I'd imagine it would be 2 or 3 in the box cost about the cost of those cyber cavalry guys from the Ad mech, the serberys guys. Seems like a good price point. That is my guess at least.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: I'll admit you have a good point, but I will see what GW does in the future. I don't see them putting a "squad" of these in a single box. GW always puts half a full squad 5 Astartes, 5 guardsmen, 5 Custodian guard, 3 Vertus Praetors, if they put 3 in a box I think that would be in keeping with their buy two boxes to get a full set type. Also likely not enough extras to fully kit them all out the way you want them.
I do like it when people make declarations involving "always" or "never", as there is usually a significant chance that they're talking out their backside - in this case, just off the top of my head, I'd direct you to the Tactical squad, Assault Intercessors, Hellblasters, Reivers, Incursors/Infiltrators, Cadian Infantry and Catachan Infantry as counter-examples, off the top of my head.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: This is just 1 lasgun shot to the face of the pilot and it's over. The Tau at least fully enclose theirs.
Force fields are a thing in 40k...
Not to mention that we know that there is a helmeted option in the kit (which indicates the pilots to be Celestians, from what I remember).
I'd guess these are going to be a box of three, priced somewhere between Outriders and Centurions. Two per box, priced along the same lines as the Penitent Engines, wouldn't be a huge surprise, but it would be disappointing.
Has everyone forgotten that the Helmet makes no difference, for all intents and purposes these women might as well be wearing Flak Armor. They are still T3, so that helmet is just as good at stopping last rounds as her face according to GW rules team. Now if SoB's were T4, as they should be imo, then this wouldn't be that much of an issue for me. But the sillyness remains, you have a bunch of T3 tissue paper people wading into combat with with open air mech suits, like this isn't an issue. Not even talking about realism here, but I don't see how this gets above a T4, seeing as how it's basically just a SoB Terminator. You can at least explain away a Repentia squad or a Penitent engine. They are full of Wierd Faith/Combat stims that prevent them from actually registering damage/pain.
Long story short: no this entire idea is silly to me, and after all the positive gains that Sisters had in their release, this is just off. That being said, this is a new release for a faction that 1. just had a full 100% faction re-release and 2. wasn't hurting for new models. Man, they just love rubbing salt into the Eldar players. But hey, you got those new Banshees, so we good right?
"Models are bad because they don't wear helmets/armour."
So you hate exposed crew on vehicles? How about you go back and play 2nd. You had during that era damage charts for EACH vehicle. Shots could either hit exposed crew or any area of the vehicle itself.
Problem was that the game's duration would increase a bit.
Lightly armored vehicles:
So those vehicles move fast or in the case of SM their power armour protects them fully?
Nope, maybe on a race track but not on a cramped 40K battlefield. The instance any biker or buggy has to slow down the vehicle's armour wouldn't protect them in a meaningful way.
Exposed, fully armored SM crew? Sorry man. One plasma shot to the driver and the speeder hits the next brick wall.
Tank crews:
So the crew duck in into the vehicle before the battle starts? How convenient! Look, the sister piloting the Nundam might do something clever too which is putting on her helmet before the battle starts. GASP! Mind-blowing revelation.
Infantry without helmets:
Yes, you don't like them but the Imperium thinks differently. They follow this trope:
"HEROES DON'T WEAR HELMETS."
Why? Well, you need actual people for your propaganda posters after all. Faceless mooks won't do the job for ye.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AngryAngel80 wrote: I've already said they aren't going to be a hit with everyone, I like them, but then I also love nurglings, so I may be strange. That said, I also love the mental feats people are going through with it.
" Well I think it looks dumb, and feels stupid, I'll have 2 or three squads, but this is a miss with me GW ! " How does that make any sense at all ? Someone please explain it to me. As it looks like " I hate it, this sucks, give me three squads, but ya messed up GW ! "
I'd say I'm taking crazy pills but I see that claim a lot with GW items.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: I'll admit you have a good point, but I will see what GW does in the future. I don't see them putting a "squad" of these in a single box. GW always puts half a full squad 5 Astartes, 5 guardsmen, 5 Custodian guard, 3 Vertus Praetors, if they put 3 in a box I think that would be in keeping with their buy two boxes to get a full set type. Also likely not enough extras to fully kit them all out the way you want them.
I do like it when people make declarations involving "always" or "never", as there is usually a significant chance that they're talking out their backside - in this case, just off the top of my head, I'd direct you to the Tactical squad, Assault Intercessors, Hellblasters, Reivers, Incursors/Infiltrators, Cadian Infantry and Catachan Infantry as counter-examples, off the top of my head.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: This is just 1 lasgun shot to the face of the pilot and it's over. The Tau at least fully enclose theirs.
Force fields are a thing in 40k...
Not to mention that we know that there is a helmeted option in the kit (which indicates the pilots to be Celestians, from what I remember).
I'd guess these are going to be a box of three, priced somewhere between Outriders and Centurions. Two per box, priced along the same lines as the Penitent Engines, wouldn't be a huge surprise, but it would be disappointing.
Has everyone forgotten that the Helmet makes no difference, for all intents and purposes these women might as well be wearing Flak Armor. They are still T3, so that helmet is just as good at stopping last rounds as her face according to GW rules team. Now if SoB's were T4, as they should be imo, then this wouldn't be that much of an issue for me. But the sillyness remains, you have a bunch of T3 tissue paper people wading into combat with with open air mech suits, like this isn't an issue. Not even talking about realism here, but I don't see how this gets above a T4, seeing as how it's basically just a SoB Terminator. You can at least explain away a Repentia squad or a Penitent engine. They are full of Wierd Faith/Combat stims that prevent them from actually registering damage/pain.
Long story short: no this entire idea is silly to me, and after all the positive gains that Sisters had in their release, this is just off. That being said, this is a new release for a faction that 1. just had a full 100% faction re-release and 2. wasn't hurting for new models. Man, they just love rubbing salt into the Eldar players. But hey, you got those new Banshees, so we good right?
GW doesn't want specific damage tables with corresponding vehicle areas for their models anymore.
This has been a thing since 3rd so complaining about it now is a bit late.
Yes, if you would transfer this model to the 2nd era of 40K your opponent would be able to hit the exposed pilot thus making her vulnerable to the weakest weapons in the 40k setting.
But that was the past. Since 3rd ALL incoming attacks are directed at the structure of the vehicle itself in order to dumb down erm "STREAMLINE" the game. I don't understand why it is so hard to comprehend this.
Same weird proportions as the original, nothing stretched out. Somehow it seems to work as a disconcerting but not 'wrong' figure once the sister is gone.
A.T. wrote: Someone posted this photoshop up on facebook.
Same weird proportions as the original, nothing stretched out. Somehow it seems to work as a disconcerting but not 'wrong' figure once the sister is gone.
I like that alot more and was what I was trying for earlier
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: I'm sorry, every time I see this I think of Matrix Reloaded. Can we please choke and kill the idea of man piloted exosuits in 40k for non-tau factions? They look so dumb and stupid on every model. The reason the dreadnaught is cool is because you can believe it's a walking tank. This is just 1 lasgun shot to the face of the pilot and it's over. The Tau at least fully enclose theirs. This whole trend needs to be pushed down the stairs. The Sisters aren't about mechs. They are about faith. Nothing about this screams faith.
thats your opinion, man. Do you even play sisters?
Does it even matter how they look? If they are properly costed, then a unit of melta not-termintors could be an interesting choice for some SoB builds.
Karol wrote: Does it even matter how they look? If they are properly costed, then a unit of melta not-termintors could be an interesting choice for some SoB builds.
looks of units matter when you consider that its the main reason many people even buy them. Not everyone looks for the most cost efficient units.
A.T. wrote: Someone posted this photoshop up on facebook.
Same weird proportions as the original, nothing stretched out. Somehow it seems to work as a disconcerting but not 'wrong' figure once the sister is gone.
This would have been perfect imo. Sisters automata programmed with FAITH or sister-brains. "DEATH IS A PREFERABLE ALTERNATIVE TO HERESY"
anyways
I don't like the new models. Whatever the proportions of the sister inside, the legs look so spindly - they just look very top heavy. I am struggling to imagine these things coming to a halt from a flat sprint, those tiny legs struggling to take the weight as they sway dangerously, with only the most expert pilots able to keep it from toppling over...
Can you imagine trying to run down a hill on those legs with that top? People tumble over all the time doing that as proportionate humans...
A.T. wrote: Someone posted this photoshop up on facebook.
Same weird proportions as the original, nothing stretched out. Somehow it seems to work as a disconcerting but not 'wrong' figure once the sister is gone.
That's an improvement too, but I still like mine better but only by a bit.
Sorry, not a fan of yours. It suffers from the same thing that the (fairly) recent plague of certain people doing bare-headed Dreadnoughts do, as there is a certain "wrongness" to it, but not in a good way, with the bare head looking out of place.
That mod might work with a helmet, but it's a no go with a bare head. With the arms where they originally were, and the SoB's arms out, it makes it obvious it's a battlesuit rig, and not something like a Dreadnought.
A.T. wrote: Someone posted this photoshop up on facebook.
Same weird proportions as the original, nothing stretched out. Somehow it seems to work as a disconcerting but not 'wrong' figure once the sister is gone.
It's an improvement. Still needs some big exhaust stacks belching fire in the back to fit in with the Immolator, Exorcist and Penitent Engine though.
Grimtuff wrote: Sorry, not a fan of yours. It suffers from the same thing that the (fairly) recent plague of certain people doing bare-headed Dreadnoughts do, as there is a certain "wrongness" to it, but not in a good way, with the bare head looking out of place.
That mod might work with a helmet, but it's a no go with a bare head. With the arms where they originally were, and the SoB's arms out, it makes it obvious it's a battlesuit rig, and not something like a Dreadnought.
Yeah maybe a helmet added would look better but I think there are helmets in the kit.
Did I miss something skimming through the last pages of the thread? Why did this get shunted from News and Rumors when it's the discussion of a brand new revealed model?
warboss wrote: Did I miss something skimming through the last pages of the thread? Why did this get shunted from News and Rumors when it's the discussion of a brand new revealed model?
It didn't. The preview thread is still in N&R. This is Strg Alt's general discussion thread specifically about the Sisters suit.
Has the advantage of just being about the one 40k thing without tangents on the other game lines (as exciting as some of those are, focused discussion is a little more clear)
warboss wrote: Did I miss something skimming through the last pages of the thread? Why did this get shunted from News and Rumors when it's the discussion of a brand new revealed model?
It didn't. The preview thread is still in N&R. This is Strg Alt's general discussion thread specifically about the Sisters suit.
I'm pretty sure this thread started there and think it was moved at some point this weekend. I almost never check this subforum. Regardless, I was just curious.
That is without a doubt one of the worst looking models GW has yet produced. Almost as ridiculous looking as the GK Dreadknight or Centurions in general.
Most 40k armies have a walker of some kind, and for SoB Penitent Engines were just fine. This honestly looks stupid. If they wanted to release something for Sisters, why not some more Ministorum focussed units like Frateris Militia maybe, cheap zealots for chaff? Or maybe some artillery, like a cross between HWT and Mek guns: souped up crew operated versions of the Holy Trinity: a big melta-cannon, super-bolter and a mega-flamer. Or bikers, or elite infantry with a focus on close combat (you could even call them Paragons)? Or a new box set of Crusaders or DCA?
But instead it's just another confusing baby-carrier. I honestly wonder what kind of people buy half the stuff GW releases these days.
A.T. wrote: Someone posted this photoshop up on facebook.
Same weird proportions as the original, nothing stretched out. Somehow it seems to work as a disconcerting but not 'wrong' figure once the sister is gone.
warboss wrote: Did I miss something skimming through the last pages of the thread? Why did this get shunted from News and Rumors when it's the discussion of a brand new revealed model?
It didn't. The preview thread is still in N&R. This is Strg Alt's general discussion thread specifically about the Sisters suit.
I'm pretty sure this thread started there and think it was moved at some point this weekend. I almost never check this subforum. Regardless, I was just curious.
Yes, I posted this first in News & Rumors and a Mod moved the thread here.
I do like the "concept art" in the video, but dislike the actual model. Something just doesn't feel right about it. Helmeted version is better though.. maybe if I see it in person? I'm more confused why Sisters will get another walker. Haven't we covered two legged melee units for them already? I'd prefer their range to be expanded into other directions.
Banzaimash wrote: But instead it's just another confusing baby-carrier. I honestly wonder what kind of people buy half the stuff GW releases these days.
People don't like what I like, so let me publicly question their taste to show that MY preferred aesthetics are superior
Karol wrote: Does it even matter how they look? If they are properly costed, then a unit of melta not-termintors could be an interesting choice for some SoB builds.
You realize that like 90% of the playerbase are hobbyists whose lists consist of things that they think just look cool, right?
"Models are bad because they don't wear helmets/armour."
Ok, stop. Please calm down. That is not what I said at all. I am getting a strong impression that I have accidently hit a nerve, I apologize but what you are depicting as my position is completely off the mark; you are reacting to an opinion no one, let alone me, has expressed in the thread.
Banzaimash wrote: But instead it's just another confusing baby-carrier. I honestly wonder what kind of people buy half the stuff GW releases these days.
People don't like what I like, so let me publicly question their taste to show that MY preferred aesthetics are superior
IKR? I personally do not like it, but that doesn't mean I am possessed of a sudden urge to delegitimize the opinion of people who do.
It is exactly the same height, and shoulder width as Penitent Engines and Mortifiers, and every single point of articulation on both the suit and the pilots lines up with these models as well.
There's a side by side pick earlier in the thread.
Someone commented that this model was unnecessary because we have Penitent Engines and Mortifiers. What this person fails to acknowledge is that the pilots of these two machines are fallen from grace; they do not receive order traits, either because their orders disowned them or because they were never sisters in the first place, nor can they use Acts of Faith.
This is why we need Paragons: they are righteous enough to emulate their Order and channel the divine will of the Emperor. This is also why they have a radically different design; PE's and Morties are dark and dismal engines of torture and suffering. These are at home among the Holiest Sisters of the Order.
And finally, if you've just got beef with the concept of exo-suits, which many seem to, obviously you aren't going to like it no matter what it looks like; the specific aesthetic is irrelevant. I happen to like exo-suits; pretty much the only one that I don't like is the Dreadknight. Because I like exo-suits, and because this is supposed to be one, I do not like any of the mods that make it look more like a terminator. They may have better lines and proportions; they may be more aesthetically pleasing- but this is a war walker, not a terminator. It should not look like one, even if the look is good.
Strg Alt wrote: Yes, I posted this first in News & Rumors and a Mod moved the thread here.
Thanks for confiming. It seems an odd choice but no skin off my back as it's neither my thread nor am I a fan of the actual model. It's rare that a model looks as goofy in the same ways as the dreadknight but this one hit the bulleye in that regard IMO. YMMV.
Why is thinking it ugly and irrelevant somehow a trigger issue for folks? Just because we don't like it we are suddenly hurting you in some manner?
You know what's funny? It's eerily similar to 40k lore about their armor/suits. You have the nueral link/black carapace. You have the artificial humans designed to fight humanity's wars, you even have the mega corporation the makes the suits and complains how costly everything is.
apologies for bad typing here, my usual keyboard just got killed and i'm using a poor replacement with totally different layout.
My 2% of a throne on this matter.
IG are basically the bottom of the barrel in the imperium. I mean, what are the requirements? Are you pretty much physically human? Do you have basic motor skills? A pulse? You're in! Illiterate? No problem!
They get the simplest and most basic cheap gear.
Now some are more capable and when recognized are assigned to better units like the stormtroopers.
Things like these exoframes are high end gear and are reserved for the better units, plus you need to be mentally able to use them. The average SOB is likely literate, taught to read holy books and whatnot. She can follow the old advice and RTFM.
Also she is dedicated enough to commit to learning to use these more advanced system, and loyal enough to be trusted with it.
This thing is a force multiplier, and you give it to your better troops so increase their effectiveness more.
Also SOB units in a lot of ways are more important thaN the IG, as if used properly and effectively can crush a GSC chaos uprising early on that major force is not needed. Their most vital role is to see to it that small problems die before they become big ones.
So, yes, i can see the sisters getting these while the guard doesn't. Plus the guard gets sentinels, easier to make and use, and generally just packing heavy firepower for regular use.
a_typical_hero wrote: I do like the "concept art" in the video, but dislike the actual model. Something just doesn't feel right about it. Helmeted version is better though.. maybe if I see it in person? I'm more confused why Sisters will get another walker. Haven't we covered two legged melee units for them already? I'd prefer their range to be expanded into other directions.
Banzaimash wrote: But instead it's just another confusing baby-carrier. I honestly wonder what kind of people buy half the stuff GW releases these days.
People don't like what I like, so let me publicly question their taste to show that MY preferred aesthetics are superior
I'll question bad taste when I see it all damn day. Having standards is a good thing, try it sometime.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: Why is thinking it ugly and irrelevant somehow a trigger issue for folks? Just because we don't like it we are suddenly hurting you in some manner?
You know what's funny? It's eerily similar to 40k lore about their armor/suits. You have the nueral link/black carapace. You have the artificial humans designed to fight humanity's wars, you even have the mega corporation the makes the suits and complains how costly everything is.
Exosquad was a great show, still holds up really well, shame it got canned at the start of a new plot. My brother and I used to have so many of the toys lol
Banzaimash wrote: I'll question bad taste when I see it all damn day. Having standards is a good thing, try it sometime.
You can express your opinion without demeaning other people. Your snippy remark is missing its target, as I stated that I'm not a fan of the model either.
Karol wrote: Does it even matter how they look? If they are properly costed, then a unit of melta not-termintors could be an interesting choice for some SoB builds.
You realize that like 90% of the playerbase are hobbyists whose lists consist of things that they think just look cool, right?
I don't think this is actually true.
The units you see the most of are invariably the best units. How competitive a thing is seems to be the core of any discussion of 40k, not just on the internet but IRL.
Most players fall somewhere in the middle.
If I can further add, I like it but it's for the looks and the feels. They could have done better but man they could have done so much worse. I'll be thinking of at least a squad of these ladies if they are really good maybe two but that is more because I always have a problem with having just one of a unit. Always feels like that is setting myself up to have them deleted and never actually do what I want them to do.
I play Guard though often and man you have to build redundancy in that army as one of anything is never enough to live and do its job.
So that probably just has me a bit gun shy of running solo units.
I will be interested to find out if they make this a squadable unit, like Sentinels, or a possible HQ choice as well as like a Vertus Praetor, or a Librarian/Chaplain on a bike. That would be very interesting to see the possible combinations if this is a sort of "wearable" suit. A Cannoness of the BR inside one of these would be an ugly beatstick.
From the size they look to be squads. However I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't. If I had to bet, I'd say squads that can't break apart. Though I'd love them more if they were tough and potent enough to operate on their own once deployed as a squad.
Banzaimash wrote: I'll question bad taste when I see it all damn day. Having standards is a good thing, try it sometime.
You can express your opinion without demeaning other people. Your snippy remark is missing its target, as I stated that I'm not a fan of the model either.
You're on this forum, on this thread, so I assume you like 40k. You say you don't like what GW has made, so why not speak out against it and stand up for your own interests, rather than standing by permissively as this visual pollution takes place. You don't like this now, and more things will come that you don't like, until one day you come to a table to play and it is filled with things you don't like. The game will be a different beast and have thrown you off along the way.
PenitentJake wrote: It is exactly the same height, and shoulder width as Penitent Engines and Mortifiers, and every single point of articulation on both the suit and the pilots lines up with these models as well.
There's a side by side pick earlier in the thread.
So this means there will be excellent kitbashing potential when combining these two kits in new ways!
We've only seen one example so far and even that looked awesome. Can't wait to see more!
Banzaimash wrote: You're on this forum, on this thread, so I assume you like 40k. You say you don't like what GW has made, so why not speak out against it and stand up for your own interests, rather than standing by permissively as this visual pollution takes place. You don't like this now, and more things will come that you don't like, until one day you come to a table to play and it is filled with things you don't like. The game will be a different beast and have thrown you off along the way.
I appreciate your response, I just think you are barking at the wrong tree. People can only buy what GW offers them. Your gripe is with the Company's art direction, not fellow hobbyists.
This sculpt is a near miss for me. Its canon is a greater issue, but I've bought models in the past (stormraven, stormtalon) that I've felt were borderline aesthetically and have enjoyed the challenge of modifying them to conform to my personal tastes.
I think the photo shop efforts here are on the right path. I would probably do something similar but change the head area into something sallet helm-like, but more in scale with the machine itself - not an actual sister's head. No thanks.
I don't like how smooth and sophisticated it looks. The IoM isn't known for organic lines and practical miniaturization, they weld steel boxes together and just add more armor, guns, and/or horsepower to whatever they're building if it isn't getting the job done (or just send ten next time). Their alternative aesthetic is baroque insanity, and I prefer the Sisters to be at the convergence of those two, bedazzling iron boxes with a moderately sized catholic church's worth of bling.
Personally, I'd probably convert a "ranged penitent engine", if I felt the need to run these in a SoB army. Replace one melee weapon with a multimelta, don't attach the flamers/bolters on the other melee arm, and add the heavy bolters somewhere. Ideally to the frame to match the feel of this new suit (there might be room atop the shoulders or hips), but doubling them up on an arm might work in a pinch. Rocket tubes aren't that hard to come by for the alternate loadout, particularly if you have some spares from an exorcist laying around for that organ themed look and nice warheads.
I might like them more as some sort of AdMech walker, honestly. Get a skitarii or servitor in there (why not make it a dual build box while we're fantasizing), replace some details with cogs, paint it red, and you've got a passable new battle rig. Something between a dragoon and kataphron. It'd still be a little too sleek and remind me too much of the top heavy droids from Star Wars, but it wouldn't bother me as much.
It would be impossible for the sister to fit her legs inside the legs of the mech suit given how far apart they are. It's sorta the whole Terminator shoulder issue all over again where the suit is designed to be impossible to actually fit in. Might work if the Sister's legs where cut off but if that's the case when why have the sister's arms expose controlling the the suit arms. Same issue if the sister is suppose to be tucked into the suit (like a Tau Crisis Suit pilot).
Because of the odd leg situation it looks like they took a larger scale sister model and put it's waist and legs onto the mech suit. As others have pointed out that it sorta looks a bit like an Eldar wraith unit. Of course it's also a little sister version of the Dreadknight (aka the baby carrier).
Banzaimash wrote: You're on this forum, on this thread, so I assume you like 40k. You say you don't like what GW has made, so why not speak out against it and stand up for your own interests, rather than standing by permissively as this visual pollution takes place. You don't like this now, and more things will come that you don't like, until one day you come to a table to play and it is filled with things you don't like. The game will be a different beast and have thrown you off along the way.
I appreciate your response, I just think you are barking at the wrong tree. People can only buy what GW offers them. Your gripe is with the Company's art direction, not fellow hobbyists.
The issue is it's the players buying the latest eyesore that feed the beast. If no one bought ugly trash like Inceptors or Infiltrators or whatever they wouldn't be sold. Plenty of perfectly good models out there they can buy from GW instead. At the end of the day this is first and formost a visual hobby, so the aesthetic appeal of a unit is paramount to enjoyment. As I've said in another thread, there's a marked distance between differing tastes and something being abhorrent to the eye and failing to meet a basic standard of appearance. Kind of like how whether you like wearing a blue suit or a black suit to work is up to you, but you'd be stupid and incredibly inappropriate to turn up in in a gimp suit.
Man! WHy do people keep buying that ugly trash! THey're just eyesores! THis is objective fact and standards!
Nevermind that standards are apparently set by the masses, who keep buying and daresay enjoying these eyesores. But no, that's not the standard. The standard is that they are trash. This is not my opinion.
Rihgu wrote: Man! WHy do people keep buying that ugly trash! THey're just eyesores! THis is objective fact and standards!
Nevermind that standards are apparently set by the masses, who keep buying and daresay enjoying these eyesores. But no, that's not the standard. The standard is that they are trash. This is not my opinion.
Of course its your opinion - how could something so subjective be anything else? Don't be silly.
I really don't like these new models but thats my opinion - it has no more weight than anyone elses. Apparently quite a few people like them - like some people like Centurions and Dreadknights
Vankraken wrote: It would be impossible for the sister to fit her legs inside the legs of the mech suit given how far apart they are. It's sorta the whole Terminator shoulder issue all over again where the suit is designed to be impossible to actually fit in. Might work if the Sister's legs where cut off but if that's the case when why have the sister's arms expose controlling the the suit arms. Same issue if the sister is suppose to be tucked into the suit (like a Tau Crisis Suit pilot).
Because of the odd leg situation it looks like they took a larger scale sister model and put it's waist and legs onto the mech suit. As others have pointed out that it sorta looks a bit like an Eldar wraith unit. Of course it's also a little sister version of the Dreadknight (aka the baby carrier).
How would it be impossible? we litterally see her thighs and we can see that they connect to her body properly.
The issue is it's the players buying the latest eyesore that feed the beast. If no one bought ugly trash like Inceptors or Infiltrators or whatever they wouldn't be sold. Plenty of perfectly good models out there they can buy from GW instead. At the end of the day this is first and formost a visual hobby, so the aesthetic appeal of a unit is paramount to enjoyment. As I've said in another thread, there's a marked distance between differing tastes and something being abhorrent to the eye and failing to meet a basic standard of appearance. Kind of like how whether you like wearing a blue suit or a black suit to work is up to you, but you'd be stupid and incredibly inappropriate to turn up in in a gimp suit.
"Paragon warsuits, centurions, Inceptors and infiltrators are the only nice models from GW. If no one bought ugly trash like oldmarines , they wouldnt be sold. Plenty of perfectly good models out there you can buy instead of the models you enjoy. I am the ultimate authority on what you are allower to enjoy".
Vankraken wrote: It would be impossible for the sister to fit her legs inside the legs of the mech suit given how far apart they are. It's sorta the whole Terminator shoulder issue all over again where the suit is designed to be impossible to actually fit in. Might work if the Sister's legs where cut off but if that's the case when why have the sister's arms expose controlling the the suit arms. Same issue if the sister is suppose to be tucked into the suit (like a Tau Crisis Suit pilot).
Because of the odd leg situation it looks like they took a larger scale sister model and put it's waist and legs onto the mech suit. As others have pointed out that it sorta looks a bit like an Eldar wraith unit. Of course it's also a little sister version of the Dreadknight (aka the baby carrier).
How would it be impossible? we litterally see her thighs and we can see that they connect to her body properly.
The issue is it's the players buying the latest eyesore that feed the beast. If no one bought ugly trash like Inceptors or Infiltrators or whatever they wouldn't be sold. Plenty of perfectly good models out there they can buy from GW instead. At the end of the day this is first and formost a visual hobby, so the aesthetic appeal of a unit is paramount to enjoyment. As I've said in another thread, there's a marked distance between differing tastes and something being abhorrent to the eye and failing to meet a basic standard of appearance. Kind of like how whether you like wearing a blue suit or a black suit to work is up to you, but you'd be stupid and incredibly inappropriate to turn up in in a gimp suit.
"Paragon warsuits, centurions, Inceptors and infiltrators are the only nice models from GW. If no one bought ugly trash like oldmarines , they wouldnt be sold. Plenty of perfectly good models out there you can buy instead of the models you enjoy. I am the ultimate authority on what you are allower to enjoy".
Never said it was just about my opinion. No one person sets the standards, just like no one person decided what the world of business would wear. It's all about the opinion of the majority, and however cute you fancy being, the opinion you're facetiously trying to make a point out of is the minority, no matter how much you try and browbeat people who don't simply want to roll over and watch their hobby destroyed.
As I've said in another thread, there's a marked distance between differing tastes and something being abhorrent to the eye and failing to meet a basic standard of appearance.
And just like in that other thread, I'm still waiting for you to explain what the "basic standard of appearance" is for 40k models ...
And as I've said before, it's not about my view, it's about the majority view, so look around you instead of pestering me with your disingenuous quibbling. Although, that being said, the sad thing is the majority are often silent when browbeating shills are about, so perhaps you won't see so much
I mean personally, I don't very much care for any of the "baby carrier" style models, and there a lot of sculpts I'm not a fan of, but you don't see me using hyperbolic terms like "polluting the hobby".
You can't really make declarative statements like the ones you've made, while accusing everyone who disagrees with you of being wrong/disingenuous/stupid/schill, etc., as though anyone who disagrees with you is somehow dumb.
You may not realize you're doing it, but you have a way of contradicting yourself where you make a pretty big, declarative, and hyperbolic statement, get called out on it, then reply with a response that starts logically with an "This is just my opinion" and then spirals right back into the same hyperbolic, declarative statements you got called out on. It reads as though anyone who thinks it's ok to have an opinion is wrong in your eyes because these models clearly fail to reach this standard you keep bringing up as apparently "universal" (but refuse to elucidate).
Never said it was just about my opinion. No one person sets the standards, just like no one person decided what the world of business would wear. It's all about the opinion of the majority, and however cute you fancy being, the opinion you're facetiously trying to make a point out of is the minority, no matter how much you try and browbeat people who don't simply want to roll over and watch their hobby destroyed.
Do you think it's possibly worth considering that if people keep buying enough of them to encourage GW to keep selling them and making similar models, that maybe, just maybe, your impression of the 'majority view' might be somewhat off the mark?
The fact more is, beauty in a model can be highly subjective. People like stuff I think is fuggly , I like things people despise. It goes both ways that is the thing with taste. As well if the rules are good enough some players will get these models even if they look like poo with a funny hat on.
I doubt if they sold none they'd just discontinue it either simply buff the rules or place them in discounted boxes but some people will buy anything GW puts out, even if it looks stupid or it sucks.
This however I think looks pretty cool and I like the battle suit feel, even if I can appreciate it feels a little off touch for sisters of old.
Vankraken wrote: It would be impossible for the sister to fit her legs inside the legs of the mech suit given how far apart they are. It's sorta the whole Terminator shoulder issue all over again where the suit is designed to be impossible to actually fit in. Might work if the Sister's legs where cut off but if that's the case when why have the sister's arms expose controlling the the suit arms. Same issue if the sister is suppose to be tucked into the suit (like a Tau Crisis Suit pilot).
Because of the odd leg situation it looks like they took a larger scale sister model and put it's waist and legs onto the mech suit. As others have pointed out that it sorta looks a bit like an Eldar wraith unit. Of course it's also a little sister version of the Dreadknight (aka the baby carrier).
How would it be impossible? we litterally see her thighs and we can see that they connect to her body properly.
The issue is it's the players buying the latest eyesore that feed the beast. If no one bought ugly trash like Inceptors or Infiltrators or whatever they wouldn't be sold. Plenty of perfectly good models out there they can buy from GW instead. At the end of the day this is first and formost a visual hobby, so the aesthetic appeal of a unit is paramount to enjoyment. As I've said in another thread, there's a marked distance between differing tastes and something being abhorrent to the eye and failing to meet a basic standard of appearance. Kind of like how whether you like wearing a blue suit or a black suit to work is up to you, but you'd be stupid and incredibly inappropriate to turn up in in a gimp suit.
"Paragon warsuits, centurions, Inceptors and infiltrators are the only nice models from GW. If no one bought ugly trash like oldmarines , they wouldnt be sold. Plenty of perfectly good models out there you can buy instead of the models you enjoy. I am the ultimate authority on what you are allower to enjoy".
Never said it was just about my opinion. No one person sets the standards, just like no one person decided what the world of business would wear. It's all about the opinion of the majority, and however cute you fancy being, the opinion you're facetiously trying to make a point out of is the minority, no matter how much you try and browbeat people who don't simply want to roll over and watch their hobby destroyed.
Minority view? [Citation required]
Seriously, you've been mouthing off on a couple of threads now as if you're the arbiter of good taste - only to then try to row it back when someone calls you on your BS.
If you think your position is so righteous, how about you provide some evidence to back up your spurious claims?
Alternatively, please do everyone a favour and get back under thy bridge.
* * *
Coming back to the Paragon and the Sister's legs, someone posted a reasonable scaled Photoshop effort earlier in the thread that made it look like they would fit, with her feet sitting above the knee - this is definitely a model where we could do with seeing some more angles of, though, and maybe a cut-away diagram...
Dysartes wrote: Coming back to the Paragon and the Sister's legs, someone posted a reasonable scaled Photoshop effort earlier in the thread that made it look like they would fit, with her feet sitting above the knee - this is definitely a model where we could do with seeing some more angles of, though, and maybe a cut-away diagram...
I had the same reaction until I saw both the Battle Sister overlay and the Penitent Engine side-by-side. The model just didn't look that big without any reference points. Now it looks like the pilot's calves are in the suit's thighs, which makes so much more sense.
Aren't the legs just < shaped in the both armour with pedals used as bracing and maybe for movment? The main problem with operating a bi ped like that would be not having neural links like marines do.
I put together a fun list for Karamazov that was loaded with PE's and Morties. I didn't want to give the list any non-walker models, but because there aren't yet rules for Inquisitors being HQ for their respective Chambers Militant, I had to include either a canoness or a missionary to lead it, because the only way Karamazov can be in a detachment with PE's and Morties is if he joins as an Imperial Agent.
Now I'm not convinced that there will be a Paragon HQ, but if there was... I could finally build the all walker army.
Alright, after a few days of mulling over this model and the new rules, and how it looks compared to what it is.. I don't like it.
There is so much crap in the fluff of Warhammer that it's hard to see how GW couldn't have come up with something else to work with here. Hell, the SoB could've gotten their own form of terminator armor at this point and used it as heavy support. Because there's plenty of evidence that even inquisitors have their own form of that armor going around and if the SoB have enough clout to warrant custom power armor in the first place. You'd think that they could get someone to churn out a few models of terminator variants.
We even have old rouge trader examples of them having better items, with even their own forms of dreadnoughts and this, this is the best that GW could come up with... for some reason. I feel as though Matt Ward has been redeemed to some extent, and that is saying something after all he's put the fandom through.
Design wise, the model looks horrendous to me. Almost making the NDK look more dignified by comparison, but other then that. Strangely enough the worst part has to be the sister's face however, or is it just her haircut that makes the model seem so off.
Oborosen wrote: Alright, after a few days of mulling over this model and the new rules, and how it looks compared to what it is.. I don't like it.
There is so much crap in the fluff of Warhammer that it's hard to see how GW couldn't have come up with something else to work with here. Hell, the SoB could've gotten their own form of terminator armor at this point and used it as heavy support. Because there's plenty of evidence that even inquisitors have their own form of that armor going around and if the SoB have enough clout to warrant custom power armor in the first place. You'd think that they could get someone to churn out a few models of terminator variants.
We even have old rouge trader examples of them having better items, with even their own forms of dreadnoughts and this, this is the best that GW could come up with... for some reason. I feel as though Matt Ward has been redeemed to some extent, and that is saying something after all he's put the fandom through.
Design wise, the model looks horrendous to me. Almost making the NDK look more dignified by comparison, but other then that. Strangely enough the worst part has to be the sister's face however, or is it just her haircut that makes the model seem so off.
I won't comment on aesthetics; that's all in the eye of the beholder.
But I would take a PE equivalent with order traits and acts of faith over a terminator equivalent any day of the week, and that is what this kit is. I think this kit looks better than the new PE/ Mortifier dual kit, but again, that's truly subjective. It isn't that I don't like new PE's/ Morties... I do I just like these better. Honestly, the old PE is my favourite of the 4.
Now if Sisters Terminators come along, I'll probably buy them, and they'll probably look good. But these are way more interesting on the battlefield than terminators.
Oborosen wrote: Alright, after a few days of mulling over this model and the new rules, and how it looks compared to what it is.. I don't like it.
There is so much crap in the fluff of Warhammer that it's hard to see how GW couldn't have come up with something else to work with here. Hell, the SoB could've gotten their own form of terminator armor at this point and used it as heavy support. Because there's plenty of evidence that even inquisitors have their own form of that armor going around and if the SoB have enough clout to warrant custom power armor in the first place. You'd think that they could get someone to churn out a few models of terminator variants.
We even have old rouge trader examples of them having better items, with even their own forms of dreadnoughts and this, this is the best that GW could come up with... for some reason. I feel as though Matt Ward has been redeemed to some extent, and that is saying something after all he's put the fandom through.
Design wise, the model looks horrendous to me. Almost making the NDK look more dignified by comparison, but other then that. Strangely enough the worst part has to be the sister's face however, or is it just her haircut that makes the model seem so off.
I won't comment on aesthetics; that's all in the eye of the beholder.
But I would take a PE equivalent with order traits and acts of faith over a terminator equivalent any day of the week, and that is what this kit is. I think this kit looks better than the new PE/ Mortifier dual kit, but again, that's truly subjective. It isn't that I don't like new PE's/ Morties... I do I just like these better. Honestly, the old PE is my favourite of the 4.
Now if Sisters Terminators come along, I'll probably buy them, and they'll probably look good. But these are way more interesting on the battlefield than terminators.
I was rather hoping that they'd give the sisters their own version of a tactical warsuit at this point.
Banzaimash wrote: You're on this forum, on this thread, so I assume you like 40k. You say you don't like what GW has made, so why not speak out against it and stand up for your own interests, rather than standing by permissively as this visual pollution takes place. You don't like this now, and more things will come that you don't like, until one day you come to a table to play and it is filled with things you don't like. The game will be a different beast and have thrown you off along the way.
I appreciate your response, I just think you are barking at the wrong tree. People can only buy what GW offers them. Your gripe is with the Company's art direction, not fellow hobbyists.
The issue is it's the players buying the latest eyesore that feed the beast. If no one bought ugly trash like Inceptors or Infiltrators or whatever they wouldn't be sold. Plenty of perfectly good models out there they can buy from GW instead. At the end of the day this is first and formost a visual hobby, so the aesthetic appeal of a unit is paramount to enjoyment. As I've said in another thread, there's a marked distance between differing tastes and something being abhorrent to the eye and failing to meet a basic standard of appearance. Kind of like how whether you like wearing a blue suit or a black suit to work is up to you, but you'd be stupid and incredibly inappropriate to turn up in in a gimp suit.
Well, hello there! First off, I love Inceptors and Infiltrators aren't all that terrible either. But are you really making an analogy between how a person's toy soldier army is supposed to look like with business clothing standards? So, in your workplace everybody actually gets a raise depending on what looking army is sitting at their workbench?
I have heard a lot of inane gibberish in my time on the internets, but your post ranks at least in the top #5
a_typical_hero wrote: I do like the "concept art" in the video, but dislike the actual model. Something just doesn't feel right about it. Helmeted version is better though.. maybe if I see it in person? I'm more confused why Sisters will get another walker. Haven't we covered two legged melee units for them already? I'd prefer their range to be expanded into other directions.
Banzaimash wrote: But instead it's just another confusing baby-carrier. I honestly wonder what kind of people buy half the stuff GW releases these days.
People don't like what I like, so let me publicly question their taste to show that MY preferred aesthetics are superior
I'll question bad taste when I see it all damn day. Having standards is a good thing, try it sometime.
Of course you are the one who decides what is good and bad taste...lol. Keep on dreaming bro.
I'm not massively against them, however if they were going to make a walker for SoB, I think some form of even more grotesque, larger, mutilated maybe multi 'pilot' penitent engine would have been more fitting, with a massive chain blade, inferno cannons, maybe some twin melta guns and heavy bolters, maybe with special rules where it auto explodes for mortal wounds when it does indicating it's role to get into the enemy lines and perish whilst causing untold damage with it.
Obviously a steam punk, decrepit vibe to it to indicate it isn't worth much in terms of parts etc
endlesswaltz123 wrote: I'm not massively against them, however if they were going to make a walker for SoB, I think some form of even more grotesque, larger, mutilated maybe multi 'pilot' penitent engine would have been more fitting, with a massive chain blade, inferno cannons, maybe some twin melta guns and heavy bolters, maybe with special rules where it auto explodes for mortal wounds when it does indicating it's role to get into the enemy lines and perish whilst causing untold damage with it.
Obviously a steam punk, decrepit vibe to it to indicate it isn't worth much in terms of parts etc
You already have a tortured soul piloting a walker in the list. Time to do something new. Though I need to see the model assembled irl before I decide to buy it or not.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: I'm not massively against them, however if they were going to make a walker for SoB, I think some form of even more grotesque, larger, mutilated maybe multi 'pilot' penitent engine would have been more fitting, with a massive chain blade, inferno cannons, maybe some twin melta guns and heavy bolters, maybe with special rules where it auto explodes for mortal wounds when it does indicating it's role to get into the enemy lines and perish whilst causing untold damage with it.
Obviously a steam punk, decrepit vibe to it to indicate it isn't worth much in terms of parts etc
You already have a tortured soul piloting a walker in the list. Time to do something new. Though I need to see the model assembled irl before I decide to buy it or not.
I get that, they could make something more heavy hitting for those large foes with the same philosophy though.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Obviously a steam punk, decrepit vibe to it to indicate it isn't worth much in terms of parts etc
The old penitent engines were built that way - stock sentinel legs, power pack that looked like it came off of civilian farm equipment, blocky and uncomplicated compared to the update.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: I'm not massively against them, however if they were going to make a walker for SoB, I think some form of even more grotesque, larger, mutilated maybe multi 'pilot' penitent engine would have been more fitting, with a massive chain blade, inferno cannons, maybe some twin melta guns and heavy bolters, maybe with special rules where it auto explodes for mortal wounds when it does indicating it's role to get into the enemy lines and perish whilst causing untold damage with it.
Obviously a steam punk, decrepit vibe to it to indicate it isn't worth much in terms of parts etc
We already have 2 penitent walkers. What we needed was holy one. That's what we got.
Matt Swain wrote: apologies for bad typing here, my usual keyboard just got killed and i'm using a poor replacement with totally different layout.
My 2% of a throne on this matter.
IG are basically the bottom of the barrel in the imperium. I mean, what are the requirements? Are you pretty much physically human? Do you have basic motor skills? A pulse? You're in! Illiterate? No problem!
They get the simplest and most basic cheap gear.
Now some are more capable and when recognized are assigned to better units like the stormtroopers.
Things like these exoframes are high end gear and are reserved for the better units, plus you need to be mentally able to use them. The average SOB is likely literate, taught to read holy books and whatnot. She can follow the old advice and RTFM.
Also she is dedicated enough to commit to learning to use these more advanced system, and loyal enough to be trusted with it.
This thing is a force multiplier, and you give it to your better troops so increase their effectiveness more.
Also SOB units in a lot of ways are more important thaN the IG, as if used properly and effectively can crush a GSC chaos uprising early on that major force is not needed. Their most vital role is to see to it that small problems die before they become big ones.
So, yes, i can see the sisters getting these while the guard doesn't. Plus the guard gets sentinels, easier to make and use, and generally just packing heavy firepower for regular use.
It’s also possible that if as posited elsewhere in this thread there’s some kind of Mind Impulse Unit (MIU) involved, it takes a suitably disciplined mind.
I think there probably is some form of MIU involved, as the pilot needs to not only aim and use the weapons, but maintain the suits balance, monitor their Power Armour’s own input etc.
Let’s just consider the ranged weapon systems we’ve seen. There’s the arm mount (Heavy Bolter / Heavy Flamer / Multimelta), and the shoulder mounts (at least twin Storm Bolters, or some form of missile launcher. Exact pattern unsure at the moment). Consider it takes time to learn to effectively use even a basic firearm, and contrary to the movies dual wielding accurately is really bloody hard, how much harder would it be to use this suite effectively, even without having to monitor, maintain and adjust for the other systems.
That Sisters are undoubtedly better educated than the teeming masses is likely a factor in their ability to use such a construct. Their purity and devotion to purpose would also help them master the MIU - which let us not forget provides mental feedback to whomever it’s hooked up to, and many contain at least a basic, animalistic programming, which in itself can overwhelm the user, informing their actions instead.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: I'm not massively against them, however if they were going to make a walker for SoB, I think some form of even more grotesque, larger, mutilated maybe multi 'pilot' penitent engine would have been more fitting, with a massive chain blade, inferno cannons, maybe some twin melta guns and heavy bolters, maybe with special rules where it auto explodes for mortal wounds when it does indicating it's role to get into the enemy lines and perish whilst causing untold damage with it.
Obviously a steam punk, decrepit vibe to it to indicate it isn't worth much in terms of parts etc
We already have 2 penitent walkers. What we needed was holy one. That's what we got.
But I think this misses a key point, which is, do these, within the logic of SOB, perform roles that are consistent with their worldview?
The PE, as an outgrowth from AFs/Repentia seem to have a very specific place. I don't think it necessarily fits the same model that you'd strap your heroes in devices that are basically just the fancy version.
Currently, the pulpit or throne or lectern or whatever imagery is very central to their design, in all versions of the immolater, in both versions of the exorcist, in the funky flying flamer thing, in Karamazov's walker when he used to be attached to the army, in st Katherine.
The walker doesn't continue this model at all. The only supporting harness style that exists at all are their highly stylized jump troops. Currently everything else has either a procession/altar sensibility (apologies, don't know religious terminology or I might be more specific) or a fanatic sensibility. This has a vaguely augmented knight sensibility, which is really a Marine thing, and I think just doesn't fit the faction as it stands. I might not have noticed if it had turned out like some of the better photoshop jobs have, but I think it still would have been the case, even if the model looked better.
(This isn't to say that reality conforms to such ideas of cultural consistency, but this is a game of fantasy toys, so, well, my 2c.)
I put together a fun list for Karamazov that was loaded with PE's and Morties. I didn't want to give the list any non-walker models, but because there aren't yet rules for Inquisitors being HQ for their respective Chambers Militant, I had to include either a canoness or a missionary to lead it, because the only way Karamazov can be in a detachment with PE's and Morties is if he joins as an Imperial Agent.
Now I'm not convinced that there will be a Paragon HQ, but if there was... I could finally build the all walker army.
Why not just use the floaty lady whose name escapes me and add legs to her mini, so it is a walking pulpit instead of a floaty one?
Aside from the wonky proportions/mechanics, I just don't think the aesthetics or theme fit the army all that well. It's a pretty bland exosuit for one of the most over the top factions in 40k. This is an army that has crucifix/iron-maiden punishment mechas, pipe-organ rocket artillery, a militarized funeral procession, sinners covered in religious parchment and giant chainsaws, and a literal angel. Even the most basic infantry are fully decked out in nun garb and carry around giant impractical reliquaries on sticks!
By comparison, this thing is just a pretty tame "robo-knight", with a bit of filigree to tie it into the army. At the very least it could have been decked out in a giant flowing nun habit, or the whole thing could have been carved out of marble like a renaissance statue. It's missing that extra layer of ridiculous that is the hallmark of all the great Sisters of Battle units.
I, for one, like the model. I like it for a lot of the reasons people here claim makes it bad.
The penitent get the lowest grade garbage, even the mortifier is not some grand honor - hence why her armor is stripped.
This vehicle is very different. The driver is still an ordained sister with all of the rights inherent in being a part of the Order, and this is a key mechanical distinction from both of her penitent monstrosities and puts her closer to a Repentia than EITHER of those (as Repentia still benefit from <ORDER> and Sacred Rites).
And the care and devotion shown to the construction shines through. It is functional and yet more aesthetically considered (refraining from saying pleasing...), which shows this is not just an iron frame tossed out there to do a shoddy job at mucking up the field of battle. The Exorcist and the Immolator are practically rolling shrines, why would this one not be considered a walking one? ESPECIALLY if it is carrying someone of the Celestian rank.
They managed to capture that in addition to staying true to the core design of imperium walkers with the broad, high-set shoulders and bulkier top build than lower.
I think it is pretty neato and am excited to get a squad into my army... and here I thought it was "completed". GG GW.
As a fan of walkers, it is nice that the new sisters Mech suit will help round out a walker heavy list. It does seem like an uninspired design choice. My reasoning is that penitent engines and mortifiers strap their pilot (victim) to the front of the suit to punish them, give them a chance at some form of redemption. Having a devout sister mounted in the same way kind of undermines the logic behind the penitent engines and mortifiers. Lazy design concept, IMO (saying nothing about the aesthetics, which are purely subjective).
To me that looks dumber than the model we're discussing. Go for it if you like it though.
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Grumblewartz wrote: As a fan of walkers, it is nice that the new sisters Mech suit will help round out a walker heavy list. It does seem like an uninspired design choice. My reasoning is that penitent engines and mortifiers strap their pilot (victim) to the front of the suit to punish them, give them a chance at some form of redemption. Having a devout sister mounted in the same way kind of undermines the logic behind the penitent engines and mortifiers. Lazy design concept, IMO (saying nothing about the aesthetics, which are purely subjective).
In this case though, the sister most likely can get out and do other stuff outside of the armor. The others are there until they either die or are redeemed (if that's possible for them).
endlesswaltz123 wrote: I'm not massively against them, however if they were going to make a walker for SoB, I think some form of even more grotesque, larger, mutilated maybe multi 'pilot' penitent engine would have been more fitting, with a massive chain blade, inferno cannons, maybe some twin melta guns and heavy bolters, maybe with special rules where it auto explodes for mortal wounds when it does indicating it's role to get into the enemy lines and perish whilst causing untold damage with it.
Obviously a steam punk, decrepit vibe to it to indicate it isn't worth much in terms of parts etc
We already have 2 penitent walkers. What we needed was holy one. That's what we got.
The focus of SOB are the sisters. So new models should take this into account. I was never a fan of those tortured penitent walkers and perceived them more fitting in a chaos cult army.
It's essentially their centurion war suits, I still think some form of monstrous penitent engine, would suit the faction more than these, which are effectively GW just trying to copy all the marines toys.
How far are we away from sisters terminators etc etc... It's just a little unimaginative, and I agree with the point someone else made last page, it doesn't look over the top grandiose, works of ridiculous sculpted art enough to be sisters, it's armour plates are a little too clean and ergonomic.
Ian Sturrock wrote: Yeah I feel like a Sisters walker should look AT LEAST AS over the top as Inquisitor Karamazov and these... don't
Strongly disagree. A specific Inquisitor has unlimited latitude to do his own crazy thing.
A battleline unit for every sisters order, even an elite unit, has no such access. The orders are stuck with whatever supply relationship exists with the Ecclesiarchy and Munitorium. They don't have carte blanche to make over the top demands.
Ian Sturrock wrote: Yeah I feel like a Sisters walker should look AT LEAST AS over the top as Inquisitor Karamazov and these... don't
Strongly disagree. A specific Inquisitor has unlimited latitude to do his own crazy thing.
A battleline unit for every sisters order, even an elite unit, has no such access. The orders are stuck with whatever supply relationship exists with the Ecclesiarchy and Munitorium. They don't have carte blanche to make over the top demands.
Why does the Exorcist and Immolator, heck even a standard sister squad look so over the top and decorative, to the point their armour is almost artistically sculpted with many totally unnecessary to function decorative pieces?
Even the penitent and mortifiers have obscene decoration to them. These suits do not fit that aesthetic, they are too clean, it's nothing to do with what inquisitors can get their hands on, proof is in the pudding that sisters treat their weapons and machines in an artisan fashion, which these are not, they look clean and functional, as opposed to how the hell is that even practical? There's a stained glass window used as a gun shield on the immolator, that is the ridiculousness that suits the sisters aesthetic, where is that design ethos on these?
We will see how opinions change over time on these nun carrying mech suits, but I for one never changed my mind on the dreadknight. It still looks as ridiculous and Fugly as when I first saw a picture of it years back.
Every time I see one, I wonder how the dude who owns it could buy, build and paint that horrible piece of carp. I think these will be the same, but perhaps when we see them "for real" on a table they will look much cooler and less ridiculous.
We can only hope GW is done with making baby carriers for the time being. In this covid era, we need better stuff to cheer us up
I know there is some decoration on it, I'm saying there is nowhere near enough and also I pointed to it being too clean and ergonomic earlier in the thread....
addnid wrote: We will see how opinions change over time on these nun carrying mech suits, but I for one never changed my mind on the dreadknight. It still looks as ridiculous and Fugly as when I first saw a picture of it years back.
Every time I see one, I wonder how the dude who owns it could buy, build and paint that horrible piece of carp. I think these will be the same, but perhaps when we see them "for real" on a table they will look much cooler and less ridiculous.
In an absolutely standard pattern for my engagement with The Hobby...
Somewhere in my shed, I still have some Dreadknight bits, and cockpits from... something else (I don't recall what), purchased when I fully intended to make conversions to have three Dreadknights in my GK army, because I thought the original baby carrier design was so daft.
Uh several editions on I've sold most of my actual GK army and don't quite know what to do with those bits.
I think some of the flamboyance reduction is likely due to size, less surface area to put them on without cluttering it up too much.
Also she's not just got an icon on top - I'm fairly sure the grill above her head is not a vent port but a speaker. It's like a walking armoured and armed religious personal chapel; sanctified and able to spread the word of the Emperor
addnid wrote: We will see how opinions change over time on these nun carrying mech suits, but I for one never changed my mind on the dreadknight. It still looks as ridiculous and Fugly as when I first saw a picture of it years back.
Every time I see one, I wonder how the dude who owns it could buy, build and paint that horrible piece of carp. I think these will be the same, but perhaps when we see them "for real" on a table they will look much cooler and less ridiculous.
We can only hope GW is done with making baby carriers for the time being. In this covid era, we need better stuff to cheer us up
Like you, I still don't like the dreadknight, and I don't ever intend to buy one. Part of what makes it so problematic, in my opinion, is its huge size and single vehicle status.
I actually like the Paragon suit a lot, but even if I didn't, they are less than half the size of a dreadknight, allowing the focus to remain on the aesthetic anchors of the army- the exorcists and immolators. They can also be fielded in squadrons, so that a single Paragon does not stand alone.
As for the unadorned state of the Paragon, it is no less adorned than a standard battle sister or a Celestian, and that is what its aesthetic is designed to evoke. If you feel like adding extra bits to bling it up, nothing is stopping you. But those of us who want a kit that looks like it fits with the basic sisters and celestians it was meant to emulate get to have that too.
I may add a cherub to one paragon in each unit, even if there are no rules for them.
Every time I see one, I wonder how the dude who owns it could buy, build and paint that horrible piece of carp.
There was a time when the GM NDK was an auto take for GK armies, mostly because all other options, save maybe for Draigo, were really bad.
In the end looks don't matter as much as having a semblance of a working army. Specially when you don't really have a good choice to replace it.
Grumblewartz wrote: As a fan of walkers, it is nice that the new sisters Mech suit will help round out a walker heavy list. It does seem like an uninspired design choice. My reasoning is that penitent engines and mortifiers strap their pilot (victim) to the front of the suit to punish them, give them a chance at some form of redemption. Having a devout sister mounted in the same way kind of undermines the logic behind the penitent engines and mortifiers. Lazy design concept, IMO (saying nothing about the aesthetics, which are purely subjective).
I think this is an uncharitable way of presenting this. The people piloting penitent engines are strapped foreward the mech and are completely exposed and without armor. In the Paragon suits, the sister is partially inside the suit with her chest and legs installed inside the exoskeleton, offering some enhanced protection and still wears a full suit of power armor and potentially a force field to protect her in addition. While not heavily protected by the suits, she's still receive some extra armor and protection from it at a most vital area (her chest) in addition to any protection a normal power armor can afford. A Paragon suit is an upgrade to a power armor in terms of protection while a penitent engine looks like a downgrade.
The one good thing about the Mech is that at least GW designers didn't give the Sister in the suit one of those nasty testosterone busted faces from the general new plastic line.
Why does the Exorcist and Immolator, heck even a standard sister squad look so over the top and decorative, to the point their armour is almost artistically sculpted with many totally unnecessary to function decorative pieces?
Even the penitent and mortifiers have obscene decoration to them. These suits do not fit that aesthetic, they are too clean, it's nothing to do with what inquisitors can get their hands on, proof is in the pudding that sisters treat their weapons and machines in an artisan fashion, which these are not, they look clean and functional, as opposed to how the hell is that even practical? There's a stained glass window used as a gun shield on the immolator, that is the ridiculousness that suits the sisters aesthetic, where is that design ethos on these?
Let's not forget that this is an army that has access to custom variations of power armor. They should have access to their own variant of terminator armor at the very least... hell they have pipe-organ missile artillery..
They have Batman tier gadget access at this point.
I want to see their rules before I hate them utterly. Right now I think a lot of us hate the model, but might possibly love the unit/idea of the unit. A Terminator class unit for Sisters isn't a bad thing. They need some sort of T5+ unit that isn't a tank or a naked sinner strapped to a mech. I like the idea, hate the model direction.
I feel like the suit lacks enough suitable theming to fit in make it have a proper place as part of the Adepta Sororitas specifically, there's absolutely nothing about the idea that fits the faction in particular. It's just a generic mech suit without any proper attempt to make it fit into their styling specifically, it doesn't do anything with the whole "Fanatical Battle Nun faction" idea unlike pretty much all their other stuff.
It's just uninspired and boring as it doesn't tie in to their whole concept at all. If they really wanted some sort of mech suit than something like a living-statue design or a giant dove mech would have at least had some basis within their theme, because of their use of statues and doves.
Why does the Exorcist and Immolator, heck even a standard sister squad look so over the top and decorative, to the point their armour is almost artistically sculpted with many totally unnecessary to function decorative pieces?
Even the penitent and mortifiers have obscene decoration to them. These suits do not fit that aesthetic, they are too clean, it's nothing to do with what inquisitors can get their hands on, proof is in the pudding that sisters treat their weapons and machines in an artisan fashion, which these are not, they look clean and functional, as opposed to how the hell is that even practical? There's a stained glass window used as a gun shield on the immolator, that is the ridiculousness that suits the sisters aesthetic, where is that design ethos on these?
Let's not forget that this is an army that has access to custom variations of power armor.
They should have access to their own variant of terminator armor at the very least... hell they have pipe-organ missile artillery..
They have Batman tier gadget access at this point.
Why should every “army” have access to every unit and technology in a crumbling empire on the edge of ruin?
The model is pretty terrible, and the idea is derivative and lazy and just ends up looking like a boring, vanilla version of the much more interesting thing they already have.
Every time I see one, I wonder how the dude who owns it could buy, build and paint that horrible piece of carp.
There was a time when the GM NDK was an auto take for GK armies, mostly because all other options, save maybe for Draigo, were really bad.
In the end looks don't matter as much as having a semblance of a working army. Specially when you don't really have a good choice to replace it.
Maybe not to you. Maybe not for those who're only concerned with wether they win tourneys/win. But I assure you that there are those of us for wich the looks of our models trump rules functionality/advantages.
*I will not spend $ on a model I do not like the look of.
{Exception; Unless it's as a gift for someone else.}
*I will not play with a model I do not like the look of.
*If I'm facing off against such a thing? Then I will kill it ASAP so that it doesn't continue to pollute my field of vision.
*If this thing I don't like is the best thing in the list? Then I will get very good at using the 2nd best choice. Or the 3rd best. Or....
**If this thing I don't like is so integral to the army such that I literally cannot make the army without it? {for example; Dark Eldar figures in a Dark Eldar army....} Then I won't play that army.
Models I don't like are not worth my $, my effort to build & paint, the space they'd take up to own, or my time to play with.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: I want to see their rules before I hate them utterly. Right now I think a lot of us hate the model, but might possibly love the unit/idea of the unit. A Terminator class unit for Sisters isn't a bad thing. They need some sort of T5+ unit that isn't a tank or a naked sinner strapped to a mech. I like the idea, hate the model direction.
I am on the opposite end. I like the model, but find it conceptually lazy to roll-out the Gravis/Skorpek-equivalent to every army out there.
