Norn Emissary 90€
Hive Tyrant 50€
Hormagaunts 3x40€? see below
Genestealers 1x50€? see below
Total: 302.5€ -> 40% discount
(Valrak didn't know how many Hormagaunts and Genestealers will be in the box but based on discount I expect either a 3/1 split for Hormagaunts or a 2/2 split, with the 2/2 split it would be 305€ and 41%)
I think an earlier Valrak video said it was 20 horms in the box?
Norn x 1, HT x 1, Genestealers x 1, and Hormaguants x 2 would be exactly £200 retail. That's approximately the value of last year's xmas boxes, which were sold at a ~35% discount.
Norn Emissary 90€
Hive Tyrant 50€
Hormagaunts 3x40€? see below
Genestealers 1x50€? see below
Total: 302.5€ -> 40% discount
(Valrak didn't know how many Hormagaunts and Genestealers will be in the box but based on discount I expect either a 3/1 split for Hormagaunts or a 2/2 split, with the 2/2 split it would be 305€ and 41%)
I think an earlier Valrak video said it was 20 horms in the box?
Norn x 1, HT x 1, Genestealers x 1, and Hormaguants x 2 would be exactly £200 retail. That's approximately the value of last year's xmas boxes, which were sold at a ~35% discount.
Sorry had a little mistake in there the Genestealers are only 42.5€ not 50€.
If its a 2:1 split that would only be 262.5€ which would only be 31% which I think is a little too low. Of course it could be like in 2021 when the boxes where at different price points but last year every box was the same and there where still some who reached the 40% mark so I think its possible again this year.
Also its the only box with a pre 9th edition model in there so it wouldn't be too strange if GW is fine with a little higher discount
Interesting. I thought an earlier rumor indicated that these would all be character driven boxes (like last years). Only the World Eaters box has a character though.
chaos0xomega wrote: Interesting. I thought an earlier rumor indicated that these would all be character driven boxes (like last years). Only the World Eaters box has a character though.
Could argue that Tyranids and Orks are also character-driven, as they have alternate build heroes?
Ork box would be perfect had I not just bought my second Squiggasaur. Still worth it if I find myself wanting a Kill Rig; just not sure I want a Kill Rig.
Matrindur wrote: Taken from Valraks newest video with full contents this time:
I just € for my calculations so adapt to your currency as needed
Bases on last years 35%-40% discounts I would expect 180€ this year instead of last years 170€ and that's what the % discounts are based on
Space Marines:
Jump Assault Captain 32.5€ bases on the Captain with Relic Shield
15x Jump Assault Intercessors 3x55€ bases on Heavy Intercessors, see below
Invader-ATV 40€
Outriders 50€
Total: 287.5€ -> 37% discount
(For the JA Intercessors I only expect 5x per box, same as the Heavy Intercessors, since the discount doesn't add otherwise but maybe there are more ATVs/Outriders in the box, Valrak only specified the 15x Jump Assault Intercessors)
Tyranids:
Norn Emissary 90€
Hive Tyrant 50€
Hormagaunts 3x40€? see below
Genestealers 1x42,5€? see below
Total: 302.5€ -> 40% discount
(Valrak didn't know how many Hormagaunts and Genestealers will be in the box but based on discount I expect either a 3/1 split for Hormagaunts or a 2/2 split, with the 2/2 split it would be 305€ and 41%)
World Eaters:
Angron 130€
Berserkers 1x55€? see below
Eightbound 2x50€? see below
Total: 285€ -> 37% discount
(Again Valrak didn't know how many Berserkers/Eightbound will be in the box for sure just that one of them would be 2x with the other 1x but since Eightbound fit Angron better I expect 2x of those)
Leagues of Votan:
Grimnyr 35€
Einhyr Hearthguard 2x50€? see below
Sagitaur 55€
Hekaton Land Fortress 90€
Total: 280€ ->; 36% discount
(He only said talked about 1x Hearthguard in the video but then the discount doesn't work and I think a second one is likelier than 2x Sagitaurs)
BrianDavion wrote: loving that Marine Box, It's the first Marine force box in awhile I'm excited for
Not a huge fan of the bikes in it, the rest may have me grabbing it. Nid one sounds good too.
the Bike models are a little dissapointing in their lack of options but they're a decent eneugh unit, TBH this is a good box to build blood angels or white scars around
Memnoch wrote: You only get 20 Shock Troopers in the AM box, is that right?
That's the rumor yes.
The marine one is interesting just for the jump intercessor bits. I have unbuilt Reivers and Mk6 helmets from FW...
I'd just grab some of the old space marine jump packs available from GW. I've built my Death company using Reiver bodies / arms with Death company jump packs / hands, and a set of assault intercessors by straping on the classic jump pack to the assault intercessors (on foot). They are both dynamic enough in movement but avoid the weird tactical rocks.
BrianDavion wrote: the Bike models are a little dissapointing in their lack of options but they're a decent eneugh unit, TBH this is a good box to build blood angels or white scars around
Maybe the Dark Angel Codex will bring with it a proper Outrider kit that has a Sergeant with options.
After looking up what units are hidden behind the silly Squat names, I'd take an interest in that box and the Guard one if they're real. Caveats apply of course, like actual availability, finding good track replacements for the Squat RV or feeling shortchanged by the Flintstones tanks in the Guard box. But at a discount, the boxes look palatable enough.
Shame the Boarding Patrol for Squats was so limited. I'm just interested in a few Squats for modeling and painting, and that box had a good selection of things I would have wanted.
BrianDavion wrote: the Bike models are a little dissapointing in their lack of options but they're a decent eneugh unit, TBH this is a good box to build blood angels or white scars around
Maybe the Dark Angel Codex will bring with it a proper Outrider kit that has a Sergeant with options.
The current rumours say that Ravenwing won't get any updates this time, this time its a focus on everything Terminators
Its not a missed opportunity. GW wants to make you buy it twice. They release the Outriders and the dedicated fans go out and buy the Outrider kits and figure out how to convert them to be more Ravenwing-y, then a couple years later GW releases an actual Ravenwing Outriders kit or whatever they end up calling it, and a large chunk of the Ravenwing fans go out and buy more of them to replace or supplement their conversions.
Nevelon wrote: To be fair, GW just updated the core terminators (well, half of them) so it makes sense to focus on that side of the DA special units.
They're also squatting most of the First Born range (something so many said would never happen... ), including virtually all the bikes, leaving us with an option-less squad of 3 that are always in the same poses, an ATV, and a single character capable of leading them.
It'd be nice to get a little more, and much like Blood Angels are a good excuse to do new Primaris Vanguard, so to are Dark Angels a good excuse to do new (or a more complete kit of) Outriders.
Nevelon wrote: To be fair, GW just updated the core terminators (well, half of them) so it makes sense to focus on that side of the DA special units.
They're also squatting most of the First Born range (something so many said would never happen... ), including virtually all the bikes, leaving us with an option-less squad of 3 that are always in the same poses, an ATV, and a single character capable of leading them.
It'd be nice to get a little more, and much like Blood Angels are a good excuse to do new Primaris Vanguard, so to are Dark Angels a good excuse to do new (or a more complete kit of) Outriders.
No argument, it would be a good time to redo bikes. But it’s also a good time for terminators. GW didn’t/couldn’t do both, flipped a coin and it came up deathwing. If it had come up the other way, we’d have a lost opportunity on the other side.
Comparing Ravenwing knights to the outriders really reveals the travesty of lost options. It is such a great kit, with so many fun spare parts!
But next to the outriders they look a bit small :/
It will be interesting to see if servitors will be in the space marine codex. Because that model is used in Admech and guard armies as well, and currently unavailable (one servitor is available in the inquisition kill Team but that's basically sold out forever)
Brickfix wrote: Comparing Ravenwing knights to the outriders really reveals the travesty of lost options. It is such a great kit, with so many fun spare parts!
But next to the outriders they look a bit small :/
It will be interesting to see if servitors will be in the space marine codex. Because that model is used in Admech and guard armies as well, and currently unavailable (one servitor is available in the inquisition kill Team but that's basically sold out forever)
It would be a pretty niche unit to put in plastic, probably doesn't have high sales projections, and runs pretty counter to the heroic heroes of the Imperium narrative that they want to push with marines.
They're more part of the logistics and supply part of the universe that GW largely doesn't want anywhere near the game proper.
Nevelon wrote: To be fair, GW just updated the core terminators (well, half of them) so it makes sense to focus on that side of the DA special units.
They're also squatting most of the First Born range (something so many said would never happen... ), including virtually all the bikes, leaving us with an option-less squad of 3 that are always in the same poses, an ATV, and a single character capable of leading them.
It'd be nice to get a little more, and much like Blood Angels are a good excuse to do new Primaris Vanguard, so to are Dark Angels a good excuse to do new (or a more complete kit of) Outriders.
No argument, it would be a good time to redo bikes. But it’s also a good time for terminators. GW didn’t/couldn’t do both, flipped a coin and it came up deathwing. If it had come up the other way, we’d have a lost opportunity on the other side.
Assuming rumors are true, etc.
wonder oif that means we'll also get new wolf guard terminators with the space wolf 'dex. TBH I'd be fine if we didn't the Wolf guard terminator kit is fine.
BrianDavion wrote: wonder oif that means we'll also get new wolf guard terminators with the space wolf 'dex. TBH I'd be fine if we didn't the Wolf guard terminator kit is fine.
It will be enlightening to see what they do with Dark Angels (since that's the first one up). Because the SM Codex is clearly pushing 'use whatever as whatever' Chapter-agnostic rules as the guiding force for detachments.
I suspect DA will get a 'terminator knights' kit (alongside a generic assault terminator kit) and SW (and maybe others) might get a new upgrade sprue.
Wolf boys might end up new wolfriders kit and primaris wolfmarines when their book comes around.
BrianDavion wrote: wonder oif that means we'll also get new wolf guard terminators with the space wolf 'dex. TBH I'd be fine if we didn't the Wolf guard terminator kit is fine.
It will be enlightening to see what they do with Dark Angels (since that's the first one up). Because the SM Codex is clearly pushing 'use whatever as whatever' Chapter-agnostic rules as the guiding force for detachments.
I suspect DA will get a 'terminator knights' kit (alongside a generic assault terminator kit) and SW (and maybe others) might get a new upgrade sprue.
Wolf boys might end up new wolfriders kit and primaris wolfmarines when their book comes around.
honestly, other then the small size of the marines the TWC kit is a pretty good one, I'd feel it's almost a waste to give space wolves a new TWC kit, I'd kinda like to see a faction specific intercessor kit for the "non codex chapters" this edition. with lots of differant heads torso's etc.
I'd kind of want an upgrade sprue to make DA/BA/SW/BT/DW Terminators.
That way you could have a Terminator Squad, and an Assault Terminator Squad, and then an accessory sprue that contains tons and tons of stuff to make them into Chapter-specific ones (so, shields/maces and a Plasma Cannon for DA, lots of wolf stuff and claws/more wolfy shields for the Woofs, and so on).
Save there needing to be 8 and a half different Terminator kits for a few units.
Then let Grey Knights get the proper new Terminator kit.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'd kind of want an upgrade sprue to make DA/BA/SW/BT/DW Terminators.
That way you could have a Terminator Squad, and an Assault Terminator Squad, and then an accessory sprue that contains tons and tons of stuff to make them into Chapter-specific ones (so, shields/maces and a Plasma Cannon for DA, lots of wolf stuff and claws/more wolfy shields for the Woofs, and so on).
Save there needing to be 8 and a half different Terminator kits for a few units.
Then let Grey Knights get the proper new Terminator kit.
Proper upgrade kits like Black Templars got would be nice.
It would be a pretty niche unit to put in plastic, probably doesn't have high sales projections, and runs pretty counter to the heroic heroes of the Imperium narrative that they want to push with marines.
They're more part of the logistics and supply part of the universe that GW largely doesn't want anywhere near the game proper.
Ironically, I think a robust Servitor unit in plastic would be a huge seller, especially for Necromunda.
The worst part is that the Servitor box doesn't even need to be a fully dedicated kit. It just needs the bodies, and weapons/gizmos could all be faction based on another sprue.
31% seems a little low compared to the other boxes, adding a second ATV would increases the discount to 40% which is possible as Tyranids are also 40% but I think its likelier they will do different price points for the boxes with the SM one being 170€ instead of 180€. That way it would be 34% which seems pretty good. In the same way Tyranids could turn out to be 190€ instead which decreases the discount to 37% or it could only include 2x Hormagaunts and be another 170€ box for 31% off.
At this point those changes just aren't big enough to really predict what is true so we can only wait until GW shows them off for real. Will do another round of discount calculations then.
Be nice if the Guard box was just 3 tanks. Surely anyone who's remotely interested in guard has inf/command squads already as they were bundled with the codex.
Oh nevermind I asked and answered my own thought there
Billicus wrote: Be nice if the Guard box was just 3 tanks. Surely anyone who's remotely interested in guard has inf/command squads already as they were bundled with the codex.
Oh nevermind I asked and answered my own thought there
Unless like me you've put off buying any of the new guard. A couple combat patrols and one of those battleforces will do me nicely, just add a few couple heavy weapons boxes and voilà. Classic force of 2x three squad platoons inc platoon comd squad and use the third as the Coy command. Backed up by some artillery and a couple tanks that look like the crew might actually fit in them.
To be fair, at the new and improved prices I could see a lot of people having room for extra infantry.
It's also better for people who bought one Dorn as the rule of three won't get in the way of using the whole box.
Honestly I'm surprised that GW doubled up on the tanks. I'd expect to see no more than one of such a large/heavy unit in a Christmas box. Maybe individual kit sales were underwhelming and now they're trying to entice people with a box they know has models that aren't all that widespread and people might bite because of that combined with the discount.
Billicus wrote: Be nice if the Guard box was just 3 tanks. Surely anyone who's remotely interested in guard has inf/command squads already as they were bundled with the codex.
Oh nevermind I asked and answered my own thought there
Gw screwed if they can't sell these. They look to sell new ARMIES. Not some random additions to existing armies.
Guv with lots of infantry(what came with codex not enough btw) isn't target. Guys with no guard army is.
Overread wrote: If that Tyranid set is as rumoured I'd be really happy with it and would want to grab at least one or two if possible.
Same here, would be down for one! Haven't bought any of the new models yet since I'm plenty busy with my Leviathan sets and extras, so if the box is mostly that I'd be happy! I'm not really in need of a Tyrant, so that's conversion fodder at a minimum or if I bother with it I can sell him for cheap. And Genestealers are pretty nice, but like most players I already have more that I could ever field now (would have been nice to have some detachment changing the battleline units). But I'm still interested in them to have all generation of models! The rest of the line up is great otherwise! I'm running low on Hormagaunts since I used most of mine in a side project and have about 10 left, so more of them would be welcome
I started tyranids this edition and although I have 1 emmisary I have nothing else in that set, and could make it an assimilator instead.
1 box would be great, especially at that discount point, 2 even better but at Australian priced I think money is too tight for 2 boxes.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also the Emissary is out of stock, and the hive tyrant only just came back in stock, who knows for how long.
The hormagaunts and genestealers are instock in Australia, but again, who knows for how long, almost everything else from the initial wave release is out of stock.
GW really need to work on getting their current range filled rather than spewing out masses of new releases....
The final sentence in this week's Warhammer preview article.
On Warhammer Community, this year’s Battleforce boxes will be revealed, and there will be rules coverage for both Ionus Cryptborn and Belthanos, as well as their respective Armies of Renown from Dawnbringers Book III.
Good spot. Seems they are being revealed surprisngly early this year. I kind of expect we'll get 40k tomorrow and aos tuesday or something along those lines.
chaos0xomega wrote: Good spot. Seems they are being revealed surprisingly early this year.
Gotta drum up that FOMO hype real good before ultimately putting 7 of each box on sale
My FLGS says even with the two week preorders they gotta get their order in on the first day* or they get 0 limited boxes and get regular releases weeks late.
*by which I mean the Monday immediately after Sunday preview, before official preorders start
I think GW has been producing more of these limited boxes than in the past. The Legiones Astartes Battlegroup was available for preorder on the UK and US sites for several days before they sold out, for example. Likewise last few warcry box sets lingered for a while (and some art still available from indy retailers, while the most recent release is on the GW site still). The dawnbringers boxes for AoS are all still available on the GW set as well. Even the leviathan boxset I think lasted on the GW site for a few weeks before it went out of stock, and there are still dozens of copies available online from discounters.
In general past 6 months I've heard less complaints about things selling out before people can get them. I know the holiday battleforces are traditionally a bit of a different animal in that regards, and that aside from 40k (which Leviathan is the only indicator of) the other games don't necessarily have the same level of demand as 40k, but to me these are good signs about the health of GWs production throughput (or bad signs about the health of hte community, or both). For the first time in quite a few years it doesn't feel like the Hunger Games trying to grab GWs new limited releases though, so I'll take it.
My FLGS has always been amazing with getting GW stuff in, even had a pile of Cursed City stacked to the ceiling during that whole fiasco, but now everything is late - almost as bad as in the the height of Brexit chaos - and he's struggling to secure limited product. Of course it could be he simply got on some rep's bad side.
See, my dirty secret is that for the past ~year I've been buying my GW product online exclusively, often from overseas to get it at a discount vs buying locally, so I have less first-hand experience with what the situation is like for retailer at the moment unfortunately vs in the past when I was close friends with the staff and owners/part time employed by them. Unfortunately one of the stores went out of business due to the owner tightening his belt and wanting to focus on only one location of what otherwise seemed a burgeoning hobby retail empire, and the owner of the other died very suddenly and the business was basically stolen by some kid who thought that the owners family wouldn't sue him (we'll see how that works out for him - I don't expect it to end well).
chaos0xomega wrote: I think GW has been producing more of these limited boxes than in the past. The Legiones Astartes Battlegroup was available for preorder on the UK and US sites for several days before they sold out, for example. Likewise last few warcry box sets lingered for a while (and some art still available from indy retailers, while the most recent release is on the GW site still). The dawnbringers boxes for AoS are all still available on the GW set as well. Even the leviathan boxset I think lasted on the GW site for a few weeks before it went out of stock, and there are still dozens of copies available online from discounters.
In general past 6 months I've heard less complaints about things selling out before people can get them. I know the holiday battleforces are traditionally a bit of a different animal in that regards, and that aside from 40k (which Leviathan is the only indicator of) the other games don't necessarily have the same level of demand as 40k, but to me these are good signs about the health of GWs production throughput (or bad signs about the health of hte community, or both). For the first time in quite a few years it doesn't feel like the Hunger Games trying to grab GWs new limited releases though, so I'll take it.
To that point, you can still get four of the six AoS Battleforces at a discount and a pair of the marine splash release boxes. There were a couple of the 2021 AoS battleforces on sale well into 2023. I think you are right, they are producing more of them, but they also expanded the number of offerings which further dilute the demand for any single box. GW gets a lot of scorn for stuff going out of stock, but they did a good job with those last year!
For sure, the SM and Nid boxes will be leading the pack in sales I imagine, as they include generic units that people want multiples of (and in the case of the nids one contains stuff that people haven't been able to buy for a couple months).
World Eaters box strikes me as a low seller. Inclusion of Angron means its going to be a one per customer box, whereas some of the other boxes are items that people will want to buy multiples of. Low sales might be offset by it being lower production, as I assume GW prints different numbers of each box based on expected sales.
Astra Militarum box I also expect to be a low seller, 2 Praetorians means that people will probably not buy more than 1, as you can't take more than 3 of them.
Ork and Votann boxes are iffy, Votann because its not clear whats actually in it yet and because the faction seems somewhat divisive and not a lot of people play the but they are also top 3 meta, Orks because my take has been that the Beast Snagga stuff isn't very popular but also because its a top 3 meta faction.
If the WE box has 6 Eightbound in it, expect it to fly off shelves!
But it won't. It'll have Angron, 10 Zerkers, 10 Jackhals and maybe 3 Eightbound.
I want it 'cause I don't own Angron, and this might be a good way of getting him cheaper. He's the only Daemon Primarch I want (don't have the other two either) as I'm a die-hard WE player (or was until their half-Codex invalidated most of my models).
Yeah I grabbed the TSons one with Magnus because it wasn't that much more than buying Magnus anyway. From a purely collecting perspective this year's rumored boxes check a lot of boxes for me, could get expensive.
chaos0xomega wrote: I think GW has been producing more of these limited boxes than in the past. The Legiones Astartes Battlegroup was available for preorder on the UK and US sites for several days before they sold out, for example. Likewise last few warcry box sets lingered for a while (and some art still available from indy retailers, while the most recent release is on the GW site still). The dawnbringers boxes for AoS are all still available on the GW set as well. Even the leviathan boxset I think lasted on the GW site for a few weeks before it went out of stock, and there are still dozens of copies available online from discounters.
In general past 6 months I've heard less complaints about things selling out before people can get them. I know the holiday battleforces are traditionally a bit of a different animal in that regards, and that aside from 40k (which Leviathan is the only indicator of) the other games don't necessarily have the same level of demand as 40k, but to me these are good signs about the health of GWs production throughput (or bad signs about the health of hte community, or both). For the first time in quite a few years it doesn't feel like the Hunger Games trying to grab GWs new limited releases though, so I'll take it.
To that point, you can still get four of the six AoS Battleforces at a discount and a pair of the marine splash release boxes. There were a couple of the 2021 AoS battleforces on sale well into 2023. I think you are right, they are producing more of them, but they also expanded the number of offerings which further dilute the demand for any single box. GW gets a lot of scorn for stuff going out of stock, but they did a good job with those last year!
To be fair some AoS armies have very few options to pick from. Daughters of Khaine, despite getting a lot of lore and focus for a good while, are actually one of the smaller model ranges. So many of their boxed sets are the same models rotating around so fans of that army have just got most of what they need. They are down to wanting a few things not a whole big battleforce - esp since AoS 3.0 did a massive number of cutting down unit counts for infantry. 2.0 had big blocks but 3.0 has cut them down a lot so there's just not the need for loads of excess right now.
I do agree Tyranid and Marine boxed sets will sell fast, heck I'll be keen to see the Tyranid one.
Nice of GW to tell us so far ahead of time. I don't think GW is consistent in when they reveal the battle forces, but good to see this year it's on the customer friendlier side. The Guard box has been spoiled already, but I'm still looking forward to confirmation of what's in the Squat box.
Overread wrote: ... there's just not the need for loads of excess right now.
There is always need for loads of excess!
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They don't put a stormcast box out every year, stormcast don't have the same market dominance that space marines do.
I have mixed feelings on these boxes, my inner hoarder once two of each of them, in reality I wont see much value from them.
Seraphon box - don't currently play them. I've been eyeing a Seraphon launch box, and I already have hunters of huanchi via warcry. Is it worth having 2 units of hunters of huanchi? How about 3? Is there any use for having 2 or more Slann Starmasters?? Warriors and Kroxigor (especially Kroxigor) are always welcome, also like the Aggradon Lancers, just would have wanted more of them and less of the other stuff.
Ossiarch box - already have 8 Morghast units, not sure if I need more unless I wanted to double up on harbingers and archai with each of the weapons, etc.. Already have 3 liege kavalos (including the special character, don't need more) and 30 riders. Need 1 or 2 Gothizzar Harvesters for my collection, only have 40 mortek guard, so could use both of those. Probably skip this one and get 2 vanguard boxes instead.
Slaves box - I bought 3 launch boxes, don't think I need any more chosen, but more knights and warriors are always welcome, and I guess I could use more ogroids if I ever wanted to try to field an ogroid army. Don't have any Eternus/Lord on mount either.
Soulblight box - this would be perfect if they had literally anything other than a vengorian lord in there - I bought 2 of the last Soulblight box, so I already have 2 of them, and I don't need more - but I want more skellies, want more blood knights, have no fell bats or dire wolves.
Probably buy 2 each of the seraphon, slaves, and soulblight boxes and sell the extras I don't need (slann, chosen, vengorians)
40k boxes will be previewed later today. Probs in about 30-45 minutes.
Again the prices are only assumed so the discount is close to 35% as that is the average we got last year. But that is just an average and there were boxes with higher and lower discounts so the actual prices this year will be different. This is just an estimate
I'd be interested in that Soulblight box for certain! Vengorian, bloodknights, wolves, skeletons, bats - there's a lot to like in that set! Lots of big chunky fun things
The Seraphon one looks great- nice collection of models.
40k wise I'm interested in the Nids and Votann. Nids has a nice collection of the new models I'm interested in and the Votann one will add a good bit of heft to my Votann forces.
Again the prices are only assumed so the discount is close to 35% as that is the average we got last year. But that is just an average and there were boxes with higher and lower discounts so the actual prices this year will be different. This is just an estimate
The Tyranid box is very good value if one can sculpt, or kitbash, a second body/carapace for the Tyrant, as one can then make a second model. Hormagaunts are a good choice as well.
No Eldar set! And if we must have Marines, then lets have Stormcasts for AoS. Poster Boy rule and all that.
SamusDrake wrote: The Tyranid box is very good value if one can sculpt, or kitbash, a second body/carapace for the Tyrant, as one can then make a second model.
Bit of a relief to be safe from this year’s boxes. I want 10 JP marines and the matching captain, but too much other stuff in the box to make it worth picking up.
Nid one looks fun, but I’ve already got plenty of duplicate stuff from there, and the new big bug does not appeal to me.
Thing is, Space Marines are GWs best seller which is why they get 1 or more boxes every year... because they will sell.
Stormcast do not have the same weight amongst AoS factions, the playerbase is generally more diverse and Gloomspite Gits, Slaves to Darkness, and Soulblight Gravelords are actually among the best selling factions which is why they have had as many battleforce boxes as they have.
chaos0xomega wrote: Thing is, Space Marines are GWs best seller which is why they get 1 or more boxes every year... because they will sell.
Stormcast do not have the same weight amongst AoS factions, the playerbase is generally more diverse and Gloomspite Gits, Slaves to Darkness, and Soulblight Gravelords are actually among the best selling factions which is why they have had as many battleforce boxes as they have.
Thats interesting because Stormcasts get top billing in launch and starter sets, and the first battletome of the release schedule - not to mention the on-going magazines with free stuff. Not saying you're wrong but its strange that GW are pushing Stormcasts as the poster boys but not going the full length with the Christmas boxes.
I feel the the Nid box is the big winner given you get a very big chunk of the new range at significant discount, and it synergises nicely with the launch box contents. I expect that one to sell out fast.
One of the reasons for the lack of a Stormcast box may well be that almost all the newer range has just been/is about to be in the Stormbringer partwork, so there may be less appetite for a discount box...
In terms of Stormcast vs Marines, whilst they are of course the “good guys” of AoS, I think GW have been careful not to tent pole that range in terms of background.
They are a major part of it, yes. But in terms of what happens within the Realms, they’re not really driving much. That’s been Archaon, Nagash and Alarielle, and to a slightly lesser extent Teclis.
Sigmar provided the initial toehold for recovery, but since then has been busy trying to put out lots and lots of fires, where the others have been pretty focussed in their efforts.
Definitely picking up the Nids box. Have no use of the Tyrant myself, but the discount and the rest of the box make it quite interesting, getting all new stuff in there. And I could sell it on the cheap for a bigger discount on the rest of the box (if I can bother with selling it in the first place)!
Genestealers are also on the low end of the "need" list, as I already have about double the max I could field so there's 0 need for them gaming-wise. But I still want to build and paint the new one
Was a good idea to hold off of buying the new models and stay with the Leviathan models for now. Just got around to finish paint my first set (out of two... with extra Psychophage ... with many extra Leapers ... still a lot to do)
Danny76 wrote: Would like to know where those bestselling stats for AoS are from.
Anecdotally it’s definitely Stormcast here
Insider info from a GW corporate employee, can't share my exact source or I won't have a source anymore
Idoneth Deepkin are (or were as of a year or two ago) the worst selling.
You can actually loosely track top selling factions by battleforces, the top selling factions in the prior fiscal year are usually the ones that get boxes (if its an edition launch year, both factions in the starter box get boxes that same year, not clear if its because they tend to sell better that year or if its just standard policy). There have been some instances where this wasn't true (2017 they skipped Space Marines and Death Guardand instead released them 2018, increasing the 40k battleforce count from 4 to 6 for the first time).
Slaves to Darkness have been a perenniel top 3 best selling going back to the WHFB days (when they were known as Warriors of Chaos). In fact I heard for most of WHFBs existence they were the #1 selling faction in the game, their popularity has continued to the modern day though perhaps not as dominant as it used to be as they aren't always in that top bracket.
Gloomspite were hugely popular from the getgo and were one of the only factions to have a battleforce box within about a year of being introduced into the game (though IIRC that was due to timing of their release). They've had 3 battleforces that I can recall (2019, 2020, 2022), as well as two 2-player battle boxes since they first released at the very end of 2018/early 2019.
Soulblight have been technically popular since the Cursed City fiasco, and managed to snag battleforces in each of the last two years back to back.
I am tempted by the World Eaters. Angron and a small force can scratch an itch.
Imperial Guard box is good for me. One Dorn can join my two current ones in the Praetorian army with the second being painted up with my Ventrillian Nobles.
I think the Votann box looks great - might try to get 2.
The main benefit with the Votann army box is that it gives you everything that isn’t included in the battle force box. Between the two box sets, the only things you don’t get are the stuff in exo frames.
The main benefit with the Votann army box is that it gives you everything that isn’t included in the battle force box. Between the two box sets, the only things you don’t get are the stuff in exo frames.
Its a weird set that doesn't go together. From a filling out a collection perspective, its.. fine, if a bit heavy on hearthguard, but they can't ride in a Sagitaur and the Grimnyr can't join them. Which makes the box feel a bit off.
The aggravating thing about these sets is how many things have been unavailable individually for months (at least in the US).
Also a little surprised at the amount of new stuff.
The AoS forces are a nice mix of models, sort of, "a lot of models you'd want" if you're not already invested in the faction. I wouldn't find it that surprising if there's no Stormcast box, I think there are still Dominion boxes out there kicking around waiting for somebody to care.
Assuming there hasn't been a dramatic jump in the price, hopefully it sticks to the price from last year (AUD$350). That's still eye-watering, but the Marine box (for example), is $540 worth of stuff.
So, that's a 35% saving. Throw in a further 25% discount if you can get it, and you're getting it for more than half-off.
Ah groovy. $350 is in line with what I was guessing at. The Vengorian Court is $500 individually, so yeah get it on 25% off would be a tasty tasty discount.
Tempted by the World Eaters one, that plus a combat patrol is probably a decent start (also pretty much the entire World Eaters range but…). Guard is also tempting, been considering a Blood Pact style traitor guard force after rereading Gaunts Ghosts. Seraphon is the only real tempting one from AoS. I do like how almost everything is at least pretty recent in this years boxes, if not very recent.
ImAGeek wrote: I do like how almost everything is at least pretty recent in this years boxes, if not very recent.
Very much so. For 40k the Hive Tyrant is the only model that wasn't release in 9th or later (and Tyranids got all brand new units for the rest of the box) and for AoS the oldest unit is the Morghast which still hold up very well. The Ossiarch box on a whole is the oldest stuff since its from their release in 2019 but everything else is newer than 2021
My takes on the 40k boxes:
Leagues of Votann- Defenders of the Ancestors: This is probably my favorite of the boxes in terms of what I need (10 Hearthguard and another Sagitaur and Land Fortress? Yes please!), but for new players you would definitely want to grab 1-2 of the Combat Patrol instead, as you can't really run the contents of this box by itself (Sagitaur has to have a unit embarked, and the Grimnyr doesn't have anyone to join). That being said, if one was starting Leagues of Votann, you could certainly do worse than 2 Combat Patrols and this box. If I get one of the boxes this year, it'll be this one or the Tyranids.
Orks- Beast Snagga Stampede: I love this box as it has a very cohesive theme and should play okay right out of the box. I don't play Orks so it's not for me, but for Ork players this is probably a very good buy.
Astra Militarum- Cadian Defence Force: This is another cool box; 2 Rogal Dorns definitely spark joy as they are pretty cool looking, plus 20 of the new Cadians are something most Guard players are going to want unless they already have a bunch (new players won't have that problem).
Space Marines- Spearhead Force: I don't entirely understand the hate for this box; sure it's not super competitive but it at least sticks to a theme (fast moving stuff) and the models are all pretty cool. Beats the snot out of yet another box with 10 Reivers in it. New Marine players could do worse than getting their flavor of Combat Patrol and this box together to have a decent start to an army. Or is the hate because it's not that many points worth of stuff (off the top of my head it's like 500-ish?).
Tyranids- Onslaught Swarm: I love this one; it's a nice selection of the new kits plus a Hive Tyrant (an old kit that has held up remarkably well). Players like me that started Tyranids with Leviathan should be thrilled to get this one to expand their swarm. If I can't get a Votann box, I'll pick this one up instead (assuming I don't have any major unexpected expenses that slash my hobby budget).
World Eaters- Exalted of the Red Angel: Putting a unique character into one of these boxes immediately kills any reason to buy multiples of this box, but I think most World Eaters players should want one unless they've already got Angron and/or a bunch of Eightbound.
Overall I think this is the best selection of Christmas boxes they've done yet. I don't think any of them are terrible, and most are potentially worth getting more than one of if you wanted to. As I said, the ones that interest me the most are the Votann and Tyranids ones, as they would give me great expansion options for those armies. The Marines one I don't need, as I have plenty of Outriders and ATVs, and I've got some nice files to 3D print some of the Jump Pack guys (complete with Dark Angels details).
NAVARRO wrote: Nothing there for me I can save money for Votann wave2.
This was my thought as well at first because I already have five Hearthguard and I figure I'll never need 15 of the little sods. But then I'm still a little tempted because I'd likely need another Saggitaur and land fortress and I don't have a Grimnyr yet..
NAVARRO wrote: Nothing there for me I can save money for Votann wave2.
This was my thought as well at first because I already have five Hearthguard and I figure I'll never need 15 of the little sods. But then I'm still a little tempted because I'd likely need another Saggitaur and land fortress and I don't have a Grimnyr yet..
If you get one from a FLGS that discounts even further (i think the last battlebox i bought was 15% off and worked out at about 55% full MSRP), I would be interested in 5 of those buggers...
ZergSmasher wrote: World Eaters- Exalted of the Red Angel: Putting a unique character into one of these boxes immediately kills any reason to buy multiples of this box, but I think most World Eaters players should want one unless they've already got Angron and/or a bunch of Eightbound.
Honestly that's probably a good thing. There's always going to be limited stock for these and I think it's best if more customers are getting one each, rather than hoarding them at the expense of others. I expect the Tyranid box is really going to suffer from some people buying multiples, and others missing out. That'll be a shame, since you know many of those folks will just end up growing the pile of shame rather than using everything.
But I agree this seems like the best thought out set of xmas boxes GW have done. They're predominately new sculpts assembled around coherent themes, rather than just a random mishmash of old models. All of them seem like solid additions to build on the regular faction starter boxes, with minimal duplication of units. Good luck to everyone getting stock if you order these after 10:01am
Given last year's prices of £130 / $210, I'm predicting this year will be £140 / $230.
ImAGeek wrote: Tempted by the World Eaters one, that plus a combat patrol is probably a decent start (also pretty much the entire World Eaters range but…). Guard is also tempting, been considering a Blood Pact style traitor guard force after rereading Gaunts Ghosts. Seraphon is the only real tempting one from AoS. I do like how almost everything is at least pretty recent in this years boxes, if not very recent.
Exactly my thoughts Furthermore, I think the only thing preventing me from starting a world eater army (beyond the cost, obviously) is the fact that whole codex almost fits in one end of the year box. Just three or four more unique kits and I'd bite.
As a quick reminder, these kinds of boxes were not available in US GW shops last year. They're not marked as such, but were effectively a "direct only" item on that end.
As in, they got zero stock to put out on the shelves.
Kanluwen wrote: As a quick reminder, these kinds of boxes were not available in US GW shops last year. They're not marked as such, but were effectively a "direct only" item on that end.
As in, they got zero stock to put out on the shelves.
I don't recall that being the case. I am pretty certain my local game store (RIP) got at least a couple of these army boxes. Now, they may have direct ordered them on pre-release Saturday instead of ordering them through a rep on the previous Tuesday, but they were able to get some.
NAVARRO wrote: Nothing there for me I can save money for Votann wave2.
This was my thought as well at first because I already have five Hearthguard and I figure I'll never need 15 of the little sods. But then I'm still a little tempted because I'd likely need another Saggitaur and land fortress and I don't have a Grimnyr yet..
A nice Christmas box is always tempting for me too. I already got one of everything and would not mind another Sagitaur and extra 5 Hearthguard. But thats about it. The way I see it I think the next wave is going to bring potentially a healthy number of new kits that will fill my army gaps better than just multiples of what I already have. Either way its a great time to collect the little fellas.
Kanluwen wrote: Note that I said GW shops. Independent shops were likely allocated stock.
I typed out a refutation of your initial post, only to see this right before I hit submit. Fair enough, I know that independent stockists definitely had them (I have 10 boxes total to show for it), can't comment about GW shops at all because I avoid them like the plague.
no clue, as you can see im an american. I only have an idea of pricing in the context of other recent things, the legiones astartes battlegroup was 125gbp so it seemed reasonable these would be too.
Hopefully they don't go up too much. AUD$350 for each box is certainly enough GW.
Getting the Marine and World Eater one. Friend wants the Tyranid one as he just started 'Nids with Leviathan.
I want the Guard one, but really all I want are the Dorns, and it'd make more sense to get them separately as I do not need more Guard infantry. Same applies for the 'Nid one. I don't want more 'Stealers and H-Gaunts, so it'd make more sense to just buy another Norn than get the whole box.
We'll know in a few hours anyway but the same source who said Battleforces would be next which turned out true, said they would be 150€ which would be over 40% discount for all of them, going up to nearly 50% for some and 20€ less than last year.
chaos0xomega wrote: So the rumor is that the battleforces this year will cost less than last years? Thats a rumor I'd like to believe.
Same but I also didn't expect they would break their pattern of preorder in the last week of November/First week of December that has been going for years now.
And since it was the same person who said they would be the next preorder and that they would be 150€ its at least possible now even if I still don't believe it until I see the price sheet.
An unexpected turn of events I thought off, would be if they are GW exclusives this year so no LGS discounts. That way it would make sense if they are a bit cheaper than expected as you would also not get any discounts for them but GW would still get more money with their bigger cut and the brand new webstore would get some good visitor numbers
Discount calculation with €. £ and $ will follow when their respective documents are up Full breakdown can be found in the first post of this topic Kinda strange this year with widely different discounts
Those will probably sell out fast from independents, I mean £100 is my sweet spot for an impulse Christmas buy, more than that not so much. From independents should be around 115 -120ish.
Nothing for me but thinking they could really do some Necromunda smaller sets for factions with a small discount, that would sell like hotcakes.
Wee bit more than I was expecting. But, still pretty significant savings overall, especially if you can source one at a further discount.
I think I’m still in for a Tyranid one, as they’re all units I wouldn’t mind adding to my nascent Hive Fleet, and don’t have any current examples in my collection.
Of course, if one already has the centrepiece models in each, your value is going to be somewhat reduced unless you can sell what you don’t want on.
35% is pretty much the norm yea. I do feel a little bit like the contents are looking sparser from year to year on average, as price of base kits goes up, like we're at 50€ for 3 monstrous infantry or 40€ for 10 basic chaff, a box with 250€ content starts looking small.
So taking 140 GBP and converting it to US dollars gives me about $172, but I assume it'll be more like $200 for the 40k boxes. That's honestly better than I was expecting, which makes me feel a little better about reserving myself a copy of the Votann one from my FLGS
ZergSmasher wrote: So taking 140 GBP and converting it to US dollars gives me about $172, but I assume it'll be more like $200 for the 40k boxes. That's honestly better than I was expecting, which makes me feel a little better about reserving myself a copy of the Votann one from my FLGS
Based on the £ - € discounts its going to be $220-$230
ZergSmasher wrote: So taking 140 GBP and converting it to US dollars gives me about $172, but I assume it'll be more like $200 for the 40k boxes. That's honestly better than I was expecting, which makes me feel a little better about reserving myself a copy of the Votann one from my FLGS
According to my LGS, the US price is gonna be 230$, they got the numbers monday.
ZergSmasher wrote: So taking 140 GBP and converting it to US dollars gives me about $172, but I assume it'll be more like $200 for the 40k boxes. That's honestly better than I was expecting, which makes me feel a little better about reserving myself a copy of the Votann one from my FLGS
GW's imaginary conversion rate gets more predatory every year.
Its not a conversion rate. I don't know why we need to have this out every time, but GW is folding in logistics costs to this. It costs a non-zero sum of money for GW to load pallets of boxes into a container, which then gets trucked to a port and loaded on a ship, transited across an ocean, unloaded and tracked to a warehouse, unpacked, loaded onto more trucks and then sent out to retailers, etc. GW isn't going to eat that cost, it gets passed along to the customer. GW does not have a unified global pricing scheme like other companies do where the pricing is basically just a straight conversion of a common base price. They have regionalized their prices in order to maximize their margins.
chaos0xomega wrote: GW does not have a unified global pricing scheme like other companies do where the pricing is basically just a straight conversion of a common base price.
Literally nobody has this? Everybody charges what they can, where they can. Even digital content is more expensive in Australia, what are the logistics of that, lol? Probably more to do with their wages being twice as high.
Yeah about the only way to get a straight currency conversion price is to buy grey imports; which are typically fully legal to buy, they just often come with no warranty cover in the new country (some places like Nikon don't even repair overseas stuff even if you are paying for it - you have to send it back to country of origin).
Meanwhile some digital goods have regional activations - eg DVD/Bluray from the USA won't run in EU machines - and even when you can set the EU machines to play them its often a hardcoded limit (eg on your PC the DVD/Bluray reader can only switch back and forth between regions a few times before locking you out)
Whilst everyone with a respective market complains about regional pricing, its basically the norm for a vast majority of products.
chaos0xomega wrote: GW does not have a unified global pricing scheme like other companies do where the pricing is basically just a straight conversion of a common base price.
Literally nobody has this? Everybody charges what they can, where they can. Even digital content is more expensive in Australia, what are the logistics of that, lol? Probably more to do with their wages being twice as high.
Thats not true at all, many companies (maybe even most) in the industry set their prices on a single currency and then just do straight exchange regardless of market, particularly with direct to consumer type businesses. Those that do have trade presence will often set their trade prices in international markets on a straight currency conversion factor, rounded up to the nearest increment or whatever, at the time of the products release, and they might not revisit or revise that pricing for years at a time even as the exchange rate fluctuates. Its really only the larger players in the tabletop industry like GW and Asmodee that have a strict pricing policy structure.
chaos0xomega wrote: GW does not have a unified global pricing scheme like other companies do where the pricing is basically just a straight conversion of a common base price.
Literally nobody has this? Everybody charges what they can, where they can. Even digital content is more expensive in Australia, what are the logistics of that, lol? Probably more to do with their wages being twice as high.
Thats not true at all, many companies (maybe even most) in the industry set their prices on a single currency and then just do straight exchange regardless of market, particularly with direct to consumer type businesses. Those that do have trade presence will often set their trade prices in international markets on a straight currency conversion factor, rounded up to the nearest increment or whatever, at the time of the products release, and they might not revisit or revise that pricing for years at a time even as the exchange rate fluctuates. Its really only the larger players in the tabletop industry like GW and Asmodee that have a strict pricing policy structure.
Maybe, but any company of anywhere near GW's size prices locally. The comparison with other toy soldier companies isn't really relevant.
chaos0xomega wrote: GW does not have a unified global pricing scheme like other companies do where the pricing is basically just a straight conversion of a common base price.
Literally nobody has this? Everybody charges what they can, where they can. Even digital content is more expensive in Australia, what are the logistics of that, lol? Probably more to do with their wages being twice as high.
Thats not true at all, many companies (maybe even most) in the industry set their prices on a single currency and then just do straight exchange regardless of market, particularly with direct to consumer type businesses. Those that do have trade presence will often set their trade prices in international markets on a straight currency conversion factor, rounded up to the nearest increment or whatever, at the time of the products release, and they might not revisit or revise that pricing for years at a time even as the exchange rate fluctuates. Its really only the larger players in the tabletop industry like GW and Asmodee that have a strict pricing policy structure.
Maybe, but any company of anywhere near GW's size prices locally. The comparison with other toy soldier companies isn't really relevant.
ZergSmasher wrote: So taking 140 GBP and converting it to US dollars gives me about $172, but I assume it'll be more like $200 for the 40k boxes. That's honestly better than I was expecting, which makes me feel a little better about reserving myself a copy of the Votann one from my FLGS
GW's imaginary conversion rate gets more predatory every year.
To be fair, the UK economy gets worse every year too...
chaos0xomega wrote: GW does not have a unified global pricing scheme like other companies do where the pricing is basically just a straight conversion of a common base price.
Literally nobody has this? Everybody charges what they can, where they can. Even digital content is more expensive in Australia, what are the logistics of that, lol? Probably more to do with their wages being twice as high.
Thats not true at all, many companies (maybe even most) in the industry set their prices on a single currency and then just do straight exchange regardless of market, particularly with direct to consumer type businesses. Those that do have trade presence will often set their trade prices in international markets on a straight currency conversion factor, rounded up to the nearest increment or whatever, at the time of the products release, and they might not revisit or revise that pricing for years at a time even as the exchange rate fluctuates. Its really only the larger players in the tabletop industry like GW and Asmodee that have a strict pricing policy structure.
Maybe, but any company of anywhere near GW's size prices locally. The comparison with other toy soldier companies isn't really relevant.
In the context of this discussion, and my original statement (which very specifically referenced the industry in question and was not a general statement about how global trade works), its 100% relevant. Don't try shifting the goalpost in this discussion.
In this case, however, saying "any company of anywhere near GW's size" is not relevant, because theres only two companies in the industry in question of that size - GW and Asmodee. Everyone else is playing at a different level and scale (and no, most of them aren't "shipping worldwide out of a single garage" - companies like privateer press, corvus belli, or wyrd aren't that small. I haven't kept up with these companies as of late, but for a long time Corvus Bellis US pricing strategy was literally "Price in Euros x conversion rate factor at time of release", which resulted in bizarro-world MSRP/RRP for their products, like a blister costing $11.72 instead of $11.50 or $12. For a while Wyrds strategy in the UK market was similar for Malifaux as well, where a kit that cost $15 American would be priced at like 14.20 GBP
chaos0xomega wrote: In the context of this discussion, and my original statement (which very specifically referenced the industry in question and was not a general statement about how global trade works), its 100% relevant. Don't try shifting the goalpost in this discussion.
Wasn't you qualifying "in this industry" shifting the goal posts? Anyway WotC also does it with the same zeal as GW, including making it "illegal" for retailers to ship product across borders.
WotC is Hasbro, which is a much bigger company than Asmodee or GW and also in a kind of different industry, which is why I didn't mention it but yes you're right.
And no, I assume when we're talking about GW in relation to other companies that we are talking about those within the industry and not something like Apple or Ford which are not in the same industry and so much larger and global than GW is so as to not really be comparable in any way relevant to the discussion. The inclusion of "in the industry" was a clarifying statement since it seemed there was some unclarity in what was being discussed.
chaos0xomega wrote: Its not a conversion rate. I don't know why we need to have this out every time, but GW is folding in logistics costs to this. It costs a non-zero sum of money for GW to load pallets of boxes into a container, which then gets trucked to a port and loaded on a ship, transited across an ocean, unloaded and tracked to a warehouse, unpacked, loaded onto more trucks and then sent out to retailers, etc. GW isn't going to eat that cost, it gets passed along to the customer. GW does not have a unified global pricing scheme like other companies do where the pricing is basically just a straight conversion of a common base price. They have regionalized their prices in order to maximize their margins.
plus typically double taxation since goods are manufactured/country-of-origin in the UK.
Roughly equivalent reasons why the UK pays significantly more for technology (compare US iphone cost vs UK iphone cost; the UK pays 20% more for the same technology)
chaos0xomega wrote: Its not a conversion rate. I don't know why we need to have this out every time, but GW is folding in logistics costs to this. It costs a non-zero sum of money for GW to load pallets of boxes into a container, which then gets trucked to a port and loaded on a ship, transited across an ocean, unloaded and tracked to a warehouse, unpacked, loaded onto more trucks and then sent out to retailers, etc. GW isn't going to eat that cost, it gets passed along to the customer. GW does not have a unified global pricing scheme like other companies do where the pricing is basically just a straight conversion of a common base price. They have regionalized their prices in order to maximize their margins.
The absolute definition of splitting hairs.
Yes, the 33% markup is not based off of straight currency conversion. Duh. That does not make it any less of a 33% markup.
That seems like an odd restriction to put on sellers.
$20 up from last year seems mild. But then that might just be the stockholm syndrome talking... Not sure i'll end up getting one even if I can snag one at 25% off. Money's a bit tight all of a sudden and my aspirations of Fantasy are very much a backburner project.
The stock has sold out at record speed everywhere. Wayland were last getting their listings up and their site was doing a few glitches.
I wonder if them being sold almost a few weeks earlier than normal (it feels like) if GW have spread out production and supply. So we get one big run now and then a re-supply later in the year. I seem to recall they've done that a few times.
But yes stock has sold out everywhere super super super fast.
Heck I was still partly dithering over Vampire or Tyranids but it seems Tyranids are the more popular right now and were just sold out everywhere so Vampires it is!
I figured Nids would be popular this year. Votann is a bit of a surprise, but a very welcome one.
I think the Ossiarch set will be one that will linger if just because they've such a limited range that its basically "more of the same" for them. Though its interesting that such a small army that hasn't had a second wave of models has commanded quite a few big discount boxed sets. Which suggests that they must be selling pretty well for GW to devote these resources to them.
Of the 40K sets Firestorm games have - all are now sold out
I don't know much about Votann but it looked like a bunch of basic dudes and one of each vehicle? That sounds like a perfect start to a collection for non meta chasers.
Sold out on all 3rd party (+ various glitches), got kicked of the GW site and had to redo the queue, and finally got the World Eaters box removed from my cart while I was paying. Still got the Tyranids one, but at full price from GW. How was your morning everyone ?
Yeah a lot of these are great "starting my new army" or "want to expand" sets. I suspect that's why the Tyranid has a Hive Tyrant in it whilst the rest is all new kits so super popular with Tyranids right now.
Vampire set is a great start or expansion point with wolves and skeletons for battleline; bats and cavalry and then a huge Vengorian lord model.
I don't think there's a "dud" set in these. Also right now Ossiarch and Vampire are the only two left on Firestorm
Overread wrote: I wonder if them being sold almost a few weeks earlier than normal (it feels like) if GW have spread out production and supply. So we get one big run now and then a re-supply later in the year. I seem to recall they've done that a few times.
It doesn't just feel like it. Instead of a late November to early December pre-order, they put up the battleforces for release on Black Friday this year. Presumably that's the financially sound choice. GW has been missing this window for so long and has earned its share of criticism for it. I expect there are a lot more people with the requisite interest that still have the necessary cash in their pockets so early in the pre-Christmas period. Naturally the increased interest conflicts with GW's production capacity, but who cares about such niggles.
As for having a later restock, I think might have done that last year? I seem to remember the Battle Sisters box going out of stock early on and coming back a little later. Whether that's another round of stock or recalled/cancelled orders, I don't know. But as always with deals that are too good to pass up, would you want to take any chances on a possible second round?
CorwinB wrote: Sold out on all 3rd party (+ various glitches), got kicked of the GW site and had to redo the queue, and finally got the World Eaters box removed from my cart while I was paying. Still got the Tyranids one, but at full price from GW. How was your morning everyone ?
I was torn between Tyranids and Soulblight - both wanted, both having very cool stuff in them. In the end Tyranid selling out everywhere super super fast meant I jumped on Soulblight.
Still kind of crossing my fingers that we see a "restock/second wave" at the start of December cause if there is it might tempt me to grab another
As for having a later restock, I think might have done that last year? I seem to remember the Battle Sisters box going out of stock early on and coming back a little later. Whether that's another round of stock or recalled/cancelled orders, I don't know. But as always with deals that are too good to pass up, would you want to take any chances on a possible second round?
Oh I didn't take chances, I was pretty much expecting to buy only one box today budget wise. I'm just crossing fingers for a second early December second wave to sneak a second box in
Very disappointed at Element Games and Dark Sphere. I've checked their websites several times this week in case of any order restrictions or reservation lists as they've had in the past, and there was no mention of any issues. Then as soon as 10am rolls around, DS doesn't list the boxes at all on the website while EG puts up a notice saying that they're only available in store.
Then the Wayland site is a glitchy mess for 15 minutes before finally listing the WE box as no longer available.
Just noticed Wayland imposed a "1 per customer" system. I think that's new from them, not something I recall seeing before (unless it was enabled but not declared on the page in the past).
xttz wrote: Very disappointed at Element Games and Dark Sphere. I've checked their websites several times this week in case of any order restrictions or reservation lists as they've had in the past, and there was no mention of any issues. Then as soon as 10am rolls around, DS doesn't list the boxes at all on the website while EG puts up a notice saying that they're only available in store.
Then the Wayland site is a glitchy mess for 15 minutes before finally listing the WE box as no longer available.
The last one that I bought, the AoS Tzzentch one with the greater daemon, is still untouched in its box. They are great for starting a new army, but it has stopped me succumbing to temptation this year.
I just find it really sad that not one of the Christmas boxes will get into the presents pile of a child to get them started on the road of hobbying.
No Mums or Dads who aren't already GW collectors have a chance of buying these for their kids. All these boxes are, are cheaper deals for existing customers who know about GW's fomo and are lucky enough to buy one in the first 30 seconds of sales.
Limited Black Friday sale boxes, yes. Christmas Boxes, not at all.
yeah, its always felt kind of skeevy that they market and hype these as a christmas gift for newcomers and existing players alike, etc. but actually getting one is damned near impossible unless you're a serious pro and know what you're doing.
BUT, from a business perspective it makes sense to do it that way. GW doesnt want to train its consumers to minimize their purchases all year waiting for the annual holiday discount box by making it too accessible and too available. They don't want everyone to be able to get one of these, there needs to be risk associated with it so that their customers understand theres no guarantees involved with them and they are not a reliable source of getting the stuff you want so they dont wait for it.
i dont believe so. IIRC there were some shipping and logistics issues and they didnt have all the inventory available when preorders went live, and then over the next 2 months or so more copies started trickling out as they received shipments at the various distribution hubs, etc.
Overread wrote: I figured Nids would be popular this year. Votann is a bit of a surprise, but a very welcome one.
I think the Ossiarch set will be one that will linger if just because they've such a limited range that its basically "more of the same" for them. Though its interesting that such a small army that hasn't had a second wave of models has commanded quite a few big discount boxed sets. Which suggests that they must be selling pretty well for GW to devote these resources to them.
Of the 40K sets Firestorm games have - all are now sold out
Well the Ossiarch one has just gone from the main site, before the Seraphon surprisingly.
Just came back from the usual Saturday shopping and checking Element...
"NEW RELEASE NOTICE
Dear customers. Unfortunately, the new Christmas box sets are very limited in quantity, and as such will not be available to order online. They will be available in store at our Stockport, Nottingham and Sheffield branches but in very limited quantities.
We apologise for any disappointment. Thank you for your understanding."
Lols thats a big fail right there.
I mean is well known that many if not most retailers make it or break it in the Xmas season...
It's only a fail if they don't have the footfall to sell them. One would assume they've been around enough to know their general footfall over the Xmas period and their general in-person customer turnover over this period. If they only have enough boxes to fill that demand then it makes perfect sense for them to focus on their in-person shoppers over their online shoppers. Afterall the online are fickle whilst the in person are their loyal customers. Keeping those most loyal happy is best for them.
Gimgamgoo wrote: I just find it really sad that not one of the Christmas boxes will get into the presents pile of a child to get them started on the road of hobbying.
No Mums or Dads who aren't already GW collectors have a chance of buying these for their kids. All these boxes are, are cheaper deals for existing customers who know about GW's fomo and are lucky enough to buy one in the first 30 seconds of sales.
Limited Black Friday sale boxes, yes. Christmas Boxes, not at all.
Ah yes. Must be sign of these times 3 hours is same as 30 seconds.
These boxes aren't completely sold out for you UK folks.
Zatu still has stock of the Ossiarch, Soulblight, Seraphon, Slaves, Space Marine, Orks, and Militarum boxes.
If you can get on The Outpost site, it looks like they have everything except Votann, World Eaters, and Slaves.
If you get a membership for Imps gaming, they have a few copies left of everything except World Eaters - but you need the membership to see it and order it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and Mighty Lancer has 1 each of Soulblight and Ossiarch boxes
Automatically Appended Next Post: Kirton has Ossiarch, Soulblight, and Slaves
Automatically Appended Next Post: Castle Comics has everything except world eaters and the AoS boxes (or at least I couldnt find the AoS boxes)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Alchemists Workshop looks like they still have Ossiarch and Soulblight.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Goblin Gaming still has soulblight
Automatically Appended Next Post: Magic Madhouse has Seraphon, Soulblight, Bonereapers, Space Marines, Guard, and Orks.
Automatically Appended Next Post: lvlupgaming has ossiarch, soulblight, space marines
Automatically Appended Next Post: hobby workshop has soublight and ossiarch
Automatically Appended Next Post: entoyment has ossiarch and soulblight
Automatically Appended Next Post: incom has space marines, guard, orks, slaves
Automatically Appended Next Post: wargamestore has everything except world eaters, nids, and leagues.
Oh wow, those are gone already? Hah! I was thinking about the Ork one, wondering if I could get it with even more off because I don't have any of the new stuff but the normal price is just ludicrous to me. This set with an additional 20% off would have been fairly palatable.
But I guess more fool me for thinking christmas boxes would come out in December? I don't keep up with GW's rumours to that extent. Ah well. Pile of shame didn't need any more in it anyway.
tabletop republic has marines, guard, nids, orks, ossiarch, soulblight, seraphon
Automatically Appended Next Post: justplaygames has guard, ossiarch, seraphon, slaves, maries, soulblight, orks
Automatically Appended Next Post: boards and swords has ossiarch, soublight, seraphon
Automatically Appended Next Post: athena games has seraphon, slaves, soulblight
Automatically Appended Next Post: the games bunker has orks, marines, guard, and all 4 aos boxes
Automatically Appended Next Post: firestorm has ossiarch and soulblight
Automatically Appended Next Post: narthex doesnt look like they ever put their preorders up - either they arent getting any, are in-store only, or they will post them when they actually receive stock in hand is my guess.
Automatically Appended Next Post: marionville models has space marines and guard as well as all 4 aos boxes
Overread wrote: It's only a fail if they don't have the footfall to sell them. One would assume they've been around enough to know their general footfall over the Xmas period and their general in-person customer turnover over this period. If they only have enough boxes to fill that demand then it makes perfect sense for them to focus on their in-person shoppers over their online shoppers. Afterall the online are fickle whilst the in person are their loyal customers. Keeping those most loyal happy is best for them.
Its a fail because GW has not send/probably produced? enough units for retailers so that they could have a bit of help making up their Christmas baskets.
Retail needs all the help they can get this Christmas so they can keep up with whats coming next year.
But no, they do not even get the freaking Christmas bundle in enough numbers...
For a reason we see empty UK town centers and with more and more stores closing.
So yeah I do LOL at GWBS marketing on these Christmas deals. It only caused frustration with the clients and the retailers that support them.
Overread wrote: It's only a fail if they don't have the footfall to sell them. One would assume they've been around enough to know their general footfall over the Xmas period and their general in-person customer turnover over this period. If they only have enough boxes to fill that demand then it makes perfect sense for them to focus on their in-person shoppers over their online shoppers. Afterall the online are fickle whilst the in person are their loyal customers. Keeping those most loyal happy is best for them.
Its a fail because GW has not send/probably produced? enough units for retailers so that they could have a bit of help making up their Christmas baskets.
Retail needs all the help they can get this Christmas so they can keep up with whats coming next year.
But no, they do not even get the freaking Christmas bundle in enough numbers...
For a reason we see empty UK town centers and with more and more stores closing.
So yeah I do LOL at GWBS marketing on these Christmas deals. It only caused frustration with the clients and the retailers that support them.
And if they had produced more then even more kits would be out of stock. And new releases like necron/admech would sell out even faster.
Funny thing is gw is actually losing potential money with these as they could just produce more full price kits and sell out those at once.
I mean this in the nicest way I can, but let's not pretend that just because an online storefront for a brick & mortar can't get stocked means that they're "understocked".
gamingfigures.com has an unbelievably awful to navigate site - i can confirm they have guard, marines, and orks, couldnt find any of the others (world eaters is sold out), but didnt really search.
Now that I can get on the outpost, they have nids, ossiarch, soulblight, marines, seraphon, and guard.
And that, my dear friends, is the extent of my ability to sus out stock for you. Hope this helps some of you in the UK/EU.
Sorry American friends, you're on your own, not going to reveal my secrets to you Best of luck, may the odds be ever in your favor.
EDIT - I hate to suggest this actually, but im seeing some US sites with active preorders for the Red Angel box... since my fellow americans are apparently at sleep of the wheel, you can try to see if you can order from the US. Technically its not allowed by GW trade policy, but being in tight with a few indy retail owners, it doesnt seem like anyone on this side of the pond actually bothers with the region restriction on their product (unlike your uk based sellers )
Overread wrote: It's only a fail if they don't have the footfall to sell them. One would assume they've been around enough to know their general footfall over the Xmas period and their general in-person customer turnover over this period. If they only have enough boxes to fill that demand then it makes perfect sense for them to focus on their in-person shoppers over their online shoppers. Afterall the online are fickle whilst the in person are their loyal customers. Keeping those most loyal happy is best for them.
Its a fail because GW has not send/probably produced? enough units for retailers so that they could have a bit of help making up their Christmas baskets.
Retail needs all the help they can get this Christmas so they can keep up with whats coming next year.
But no, they do not even get the freaking Christmas bundle in enough numbers...
For a reason we see empty UK town centers and with more and more stores closing.
So yeah I do LOL at GWBS marketing on these Christmas deals. It only caused frustration with the clients and the retailers that support them.
And if they had produced more then even more kits would be out of stock. And new releases like necron/admech would sell out even faster.
Funny thing is gw is actually losing potential money with these as they could just produce more full price kits and sell out those at once.
You fail to understand Christmas dynamics and how it affects customers shopping habits. You sell the exact same thing but with a Christmas packaging and it will sell out fast. Thats how it works. In this case yes GW is losing money not because they are giving a discount but because they are not making a whatever GW Christmas basket available.
Overread wrote: It's only a fail if they don't have the footfall to sell them. One would assume they've been around enough to know their general footfall over the Xmas period and their general in-person customer turnover over this period. If they only have enough boxes to fill that demand then it makes perfect sense for them to focus on their in-person shoppers over their online shoppers. Afterall the online are fickle whilst the in person are their loyal customers. Keeping those most loyal happy is best for them.
Its a fail because GW has not send/probably produced? enough units for retailers so that they could have a bit of help making up their Christmas baskets.
Retail needs all the help they can get this Christmas so they can keep up with whats coming next year.
But no, they do not even get the freaking Christmas bundle in enough numbers...
For a reason we see empty UK town centers and with more and more stores closing.
That is certainly a take. The tabletop games retailer with well over 100 UK high street stores needs to save our ailing town centres. They can do this by sending more stock from their own high street stores to much smaller retailers who often trade from town outskirts or industrial estates.
Overread wrote: It's only a fail if they don't have the footfall to sell them. One would assume they've been around enough to know their general footfall over the Xmas period and their general in-person customer turnover over this period. If they only have enough boxes to fill that demand then it makes perfect sense for them to focus on their in-person shoppers over their online shoppers. Afterall the online are fickle whilst the in person are their loyal customers. Keeping those most loyal happy is best for them.
Its a fail because GW has not send/probably produced? enough units for retailers so that they could have a bit of help making up their Christmas baskets.
Retail needs all the help they can get this Christmas so they can keep up with whats coming next year.
But no, they do not even get the freaking Christmas bundle in enough numbers...
For a reason we see empty UK town centers and with more and more stores closing.
That is certainly a take. The tabletop games retailer with well over 100 UK high street stores needs to save our ailing town centres. They can do this by sending more stock from their own high street stores to much smaller retailers who often trade from town outskirts or industrial estates.
You will not lol when GW will be the only option to go to... then theres nothing stopping GW from moving away from towncenters.
Undermining the retailers that rely on you during Christmas is not cool. Not having a Christmas basket besides a goblin is silly.
Overread wrote: It's only a fail if they don't have the footfall to sell them. One would assume they've been around enough to know their general footfall over the Xmas period and their general in-person customer turnover over this period. If they only have enough boxes to fill that demand then it makes perfect sense for them to focus on their in-person shoppers over their online shoppers. Afterall the online are fickle whilst the in person are their loyal customers. Keeping those most loyal happy is best for them.
Its a fail because GW has not send/probably produced? enough units for retailers so that they could have a bit of help making up their Christmas baskets.
Retail needs all the help they can get this Christmas so they can keep up with whats coming next year.
But no, they do not even get the freaking Christmas bundle in enough numbers...
For a reason we see empty UK town centers and with more and more stores closing.
So yeah I do LOL at GWBS marketing on these Christmas deals. It only caused frustration with the clients and the retailers that support them.
And if they had produced more then even more kits would be out of stock. And new releases like necron/admech would sell out even faster.
Funny thing is gw is actually losing potential money with these as they could just produce more full price kits and sell out those at once.
You fail to understand Christmas dynamics and how it affects customers shopping habits. You sell the exact same thing but with a Christmas packaging and it will sell out fast. Thats how it works. In this case yes GW is losing money not because they are giving a discount but because they are not making a whatever GW Christmas basket available.
And you fail to see whatever amount they produce here is away from others. Gw is producing at full capacity and can't meet demand.
As is they could drop all discount boxes and up the prices and still be unable to meet demand...
Every sprue they sell at discount is sprue they can't sell at full price.
Gw can't just snap finger and 100x box count. They have to produce less of boxes that would sell out instantly even without discount.
Overread wrote: It's only a fail if they don't have the footfall to sell them. One would assume they've been around enough to know their general footfall over the Xmas period and their general in-person customer turnover over this period. If they only have enough boxes to fill that demand then it makes perfect sense for them to focus on their in-person shoppers over their online shoppers. Afterall the online are fickle whilst the in person are their loyal customers. Keeping those most loyal happy is best for them.
Its a fail because GW has not send/probably produced? enough units for retailers so that they could have a bit of help making up their Christmas baskets.
Retail needs all the help they can get this Christmas so they can keep up with whats coming next year.
But no, they do not even get the freaking Christmas bundle in enough numbers...
For a reason we see empty UK town centers and with more and more stores closing.
That is certainly a take. The tabletop games retailer with well over 100 UK high street stores needs to save our ailing town centres. They can do this by sending more stock from their own high street stores to much smaller retailers who often trade from town outskirts or industrial estates.
You will not lol when GW will be the only option to go to... then theres nothing stopping GW from moving away from towncenters.
Undermining the retailers that rely on you during Christmas is not cool. Not having a Christmas basket besides a goblin is silly.
I'd just like to point out that for as much as wargame stuff costs - the markup and profits are tiny compared to card games. Many 3rd party stores are WAY more reliant on the income from MTG, Pokemon and Yugio make than Wargames. If anything you want to complain about go rant that MTG is being managed into the ground for short term insane profit drives which might well burn its market out. Which would cause way more harm than GW discount boxes selling out before christmas thus forcing people to buy regular retail boxes of GW models from their local store for Christmas.
Heck don't forget when Indomitus came out some 3rd party stores sold it at warehouse prices just to get rid of them so that they could buy in more fast selling profitable items. Modern stores don't want long-shelf-life products. Even though that Indomitus would have sold eventually; those stores are on such tight margins that its worth warehouse selling just to release that money to put into faster selling stuff. Another big reason MTG and other card games are way more profit generating.
Overread wrote: It's only a fail if they don't have the footfall to sell them. One would assume they've been around enough to know their general footfall over the Xmas period and their general in-person customer turnover over this period. If they only have enough boxes to fill that demand then it makes perfect sense for them to focus on their in-person shoppers over their online shoppers. Afterall the online are fickle whilst the in person are their loyal customers. Keeping those most loyal happy is best for them.
Its a fail because GW has not send/probably produced? enough units for retailers so that they could have a bit of help making up their Christmas baskets.
Retail needs all the help they can get this Christmas so they can keep up with whats coming next year.
But no, they do not even get the freaking Christmas bundle in enough numbers...
For a reason we see empty UK town centers and with more and more stores closing.
So yeah I do LOL at GWBS marketing on these Christmas deals. It only caused frustration with the clients and the retailers that support them.
And if they had produced more then even more kits would be out of stock. And new releases like necron/admech would sell out even faster.
Funny thing is gw is actually losing potential money with these as they could just produce more full price kits and sell out those at once.
You fail to understand Christmas dynamics and how it affects customers shopping habits. You sell the exact same thing but with a Christmas packaging and it will sell out fast. Thats how it works. In this case yes GW is losing money not because they are giving a discount but because they are not making a whatever GW Christmas basket available.
And you fail to see whatever amount they produce here is away from others. Gw is producing at full capacity and can't meet demand.
As is they could drop all discount boxes and up the prices and still be unable to meet demand...
Every sprue they sell at discount is sprue they can't sell at full price.
Gw can't just snap finger and 100x box count. They have to produce less of boxes that would sell out instantly even without discount.
As is gw isn't even maximising profit.
Thats your assumption, looking at today GW online store most? products are not outofstock and are available.
That is certainly a take. The tabletop games retailer with well over 100 UK high street stores needs to save our ailing town centres. They can do this by sending more stock from their own high street stores to much smaller retailers who often trade from town outskirts or industrial estates.
Do GW stores in the UK actually get stocked with these boxes? Here in the US, as far as I've been able to tell, they don't. The exception seems to be the big, big spots labeled as Citadels/Battle Bunkers.
Overread wrote: It's only a fail if they don't have the footfall to sell them. One would assume they've been around enough to know their general footfall over the Xmas period and their general in-person customer turnover over this period. If they only have enough boxes to fill that demand then it makes perfect sense for them to focus on their in-person shoppers over their online shoppers. Afterall the online are fickle whilst the in person are their loyal customers. Keeping those most loyal happy is best for them.
Its a fail because GW has not send/probably produced? enough units for retailers so that they could have a bit of help making up their Christmas baskets.
Retail needs all the help they can get this Christmas so they can keep up with whats coming next year.
But no, they do not even get the freaking Christmas bundle in enough numbers...
For a reason we see empty UK town centers and with more and more stores closing.
So yeah I do LOL at GWBS marketing on these Christmas deals. It only caused frustration with the clients and the retailers that support them.
And if they had produced more then even more kits would be out of stock. And new releases like necron/admech would sell out even faster.
Funny thing is gw is actually losing potential money with these as they could just produce more full price kits and sell out those at once.
You fail to understand Christmas dynamics and how it affects customers shopping habits. You sell the exact same thing but with a Christmas packaging and it will sell out fast. Thats how it works. In this case yes GW is losing money not because they are giving a discount but because they are not making a whatever GW Christmas basket available.
And you fail to see whatever amount they produce here is away from others. Gw is producing at full capacity and can't meet demand.
As is they could drop all discount boxes and up the prices and still be unable to meet demand...
Every sprue they sell at discount is sprue they can't sell at full price.
Gw can't just snap finger and 100x box count. They have to produce less of boxes that would sell out instantly even without discount.
As is gw isn't even maximising profit.
Thats your assumption, looking at today GW online store most? products are not outofstock and are available.
I was in WHW in August and the shelves were practically empty, both in the main store and FW. They've had a lot of stuff OOS for the last few months.
Overread wrote: It's only a fail if they don't have the footfall to sell them. One would assume they've been around enough to know their general footfall over the Xmas period and their general in-person customer turnover over this period. If they only have enough boxes to fill that demand then it makes perfect sense for them to focus on their in-person shoppers over their online shoppers. Afterall the online are fickle whilst the in person are their loyal customers. Keeping those most loyal happy is best for them.
Its a fail because GW has not send/probably produced? enough units for retailers so that they could have a bit of help making up their Christmas baskets.
Retail needs all the help they can get this Christmas so they can keep up with whats coming next year.
But no, they do not even get the freaking Christmas bundle in enough numbers...
For a reason we see empty UK town centers and with more and more stores closing.
That is certainly a take. The tabletop games retailer with well over 100 UK high street stores needs to save our ailing town centres. They can do this by sending more stock from their own high street stores to much smaller retailers who often trade from town outskirts or industrial estates.
You will not lol when GW will be the only option to go to... then theres nothing stopping GW from moving away from towncenters.
Undermining the retailers that rely on you during Christmas is not cool. Not having a Christmas basket besides a goblin is silly.
I'd just like to point out that for as much as wargame stuff costs - the markup and profits are tiny compared to card games. Many 3rd party stores are WAY more reliant on the income from MTG, Pokemon and Yugio make than Wargames. If anything you want to complain about go rant that MTG is being managed into the ground for short term insane profit drives which might well burn its market out. Which would cause way more harm than GW discount boxes selling out before christmas thus forcing people to buy regular retail boxes of GW models from their local store for Christmas.
Heck don't forget when Indomitus came out some 3rd party stores sold it at warehouse prices just to get rid of them so that they could buy in more fast selling profitable items. Modern stores don't want long-shelf-life products. Even thought that Indomitus would have sold eventually; those stores are on such tight margins that it's worth warehouse selling just to release that money to put into faster selling stuff. Another big reason MTG and other card games are way more profit generating.
I do not follow MTG/pokemon in any way shape or form so I trust your word for it. But then again I see same typical behaviours from what you say... monopolistic companies making it harder and harder for smaller companies to survive in the long term to an unprecedented level in the current economical environment.
It's not me ranting its me LOLing how bad GW Marketing on all this has been, making a very bitter Christmas even for their partners ( I know I know its not partners for GW its parasites right?).
Who cares shareholders are happy.
It's an odd way of doing things to be immediately out of stock in less than two hours when there's plenty of people who could pay them more money to buy things.
Olthannon wrote: It's an odd way of doing things to be immediately out of stock in less than two hours when there's plenty of people who could pay them more money to buy things.
But then they risk the situation like the Marine boxes from last year that are still lingering on shelves in FLGS.
Here in Canada I was able to grab a Votann box from an off-province shop as they were released at midnight, but the Nids box was the first one to be sold out there in the first 5 minutes so I missed it there. Now this morning, all are sold out but the Votann (and all AOS still availble).
But my flgs had some Nids box so I got it from there. And it still have 5 or more of each available this morning.
Well, I got my 20 boxes after all. Was able to sell enough old junk over the past couple weeks to afford it. Thats 1 world Eaters box, 3 nids boxes, 2 of everything else
Kanluwen wrote: Fun fact: that gets put up because it's when the last bracket of North American preorders goes up.
Go explain that to the rest of the world that was looking into getting these but are bumped into frustration yet again.
I shouldn't have to, because it's been like this for years now?
Sure thats why still deals from last year around (according to a previous poster) right? And thats why I got a box of previous years Christmas deal in the following summer... sure.
My regular discounter ran a poll before they could put orders in to see how many they'd need of every set. Had hoped to score a Cadian box, but those were sold out in no time at all, they may be getting more of them next week, but not holding my breath.
chaos0xomega wrote: Imperial Games indicates Nids, Votann, and World Eaters are available to preorder in-store, everything else is showing available online.
It does seem like those three are the "big ticket" items.
Olthannon wrote: It's an odd way of doing things to be immediately out of stock in less than two hours when there's plenty of people who could pay them more money to buy things.
There's even more people willing to buy full price kits that are chronically sold out.
Hell every tyranid player that started with leviathan are still waiting chance to buy quite a few nid kits.
Gw can't just snap fingers and 100000 sprues show up. It's zero-sum production. Sprue you produce for box a is sprue less of product b.
Gimgamgoo wrote: I just find it really sad that not one of the Christmas boxes will get into the presents pile of a child to get them started on the road of hobbying.
No Mums or Dads who aren't already GW collectors have a chance of buying these for their kids. All these boxes are, are cheaper deals for existing customers who know about GW's fomo and are lucky enough to buy one in the first 30 seconds of sales.
Limited Black Friday sale boxes, yes. Christmas Boxes, not at all.
Ah yes. Must be sign of these times 3 hours is same as 30 seconds.
Functionally 3 hours is the same as 30 seconds for Mums and Dads who aren't refreshing the webshop the morning preorders go up.
Gimgamgoo wrote: I just find it really sad that not one of the Christmas boxes will get into the presents pile of a child to get them started on the road of hobbying.
No Mums or Dads who aren't already GW collectors have a chance of buying these for their kids. All these boxes are, are cheaper deals for existing customers who know about GW's fomo and are lucky enough to buy one in the first 30 seconds of sales.
Limited Black Friday sale boxes, yes. Christmas Boxes, not at all.
Ah yes. Must be sign of these times 3 hours is same as 30 seconds.
Functionally 3 hours is the same as 30 seconds for Mums and Dads who aren't refreshing the webshop the morning preorders go up.
Yep, those 3 hours window on a Saturday morning on the 11th of November will not cut it even for collectors. Reading comments all over the net from the "GW collectors" plenty of complaining about that too.
For people outside the GW bubble they will not even know these happened.
They can go buy a Xmas goblin.
Bonkers.
tneva82 wrote: Gw can't just snap fingers and 100000 sprues show up.
As usual with your posts, no one is making that argument.
Except fundamentally they are - they are arguing they should have produced more to meet demand, is that 100000 sprues or not I don't know, but the point is basically true.
You cannot simply meet demand if you cannot produce enough, if you production capacity is already taken you have to sacrifice something else, and then the same argument will be made later - that they didn't produce enough of tomorrows product because they over produced today's product (or produce more of it).
So, from where I sit, argument appears to be they should have produced more sprues and they should have 'snapped' their finger to make it happen as if by magic.
If that isn't true what do you think the argument is that is being made?
Except fundamentally they are - they are arguing they should have produced more to meet demand, is that 100000 sprues or not I don't know, but the point is basically true.
They chose to create the demand tho, they could have simply not done xmas boxes, and not done Heresy, and Cursed City, and any number of other things they "can't" keep up supply for but choose to hype and create demand. Anyone thinking this isn't all pure FOMO psyop, intentional conditioning of our purchasing habits, is... well, is the successful final product of the psyop.
puree wrote: If that isn't true what do you think the argument is that is being made?
That GW have been making these boxes for fething years now, and should be aware of the demand, anticipate the demand, prepare for the demand and not end up in this situation every. Single. Time.
That's not snapping their fingers. That's called showing some basic level of forethought.
puree wrote: If that isn't true what do you think the argument is that is being made?
That GW have been making these boxes for fething years now, and should be aware of the demand, anticipate the demand, prepare for the demand and not end up in this situation every. Single. Time.
That's not snapping their fingers. That's called showing some basic level of forethought.
GW is a model company and not a statisic company
It is impossible to keep perfect track of previous sales and calculate the demand for the next year
So not their fault that those sell out every year quickly
/S
PS: and if a regular non-scalping uswe can get 20, I am sure everyone who wanted one got one /s
puree wrote: If that isn't true what do you think the argument is that is being made?
That GW have been making these boxes for fething years now, and should be aware of the demand, anticipate the demand, prepare for the demand and not end up in this situation every. Single. Time.
That's not snapping their fingers. That's called showing some basic level of forethought.
Or its basic tradeoffs. If they are making more sprues for Christmas box X, that is less machine time to make sprues for new release Y and restock of Z. And as long as they make a certain amount of profit off the Christmas boxes, it was a success, even if they could have made more boxes.
Dear God that's an awful take, I don't imagine GW would be telling factory workers they'll get fired if they try to stay safe in hurricanes or whatever it was, or firing large chunks of staff just for a little ego boost. Or pretending 1 megalomaniac whith daddy's money ruining people livelihoods is the same as a corporate entity made up of a board of people who didn't make enough toys at a discount.
I'm pissed they short changed a lot of people in stock, I'm annoyed a lot of 3rd parry sellers in the UK pulled shenanigans with their discounts on them and that some cretins will be trying to scalp and capitalise on OOS kit prices (which are likely OOS to fulfil production of said discount boxes). But they're hardly at a musk level of societal damage.
Imagine thinking that was a defense of GW and rather than just mocking a post filled with crazy conspiracy theorist language. A post that was then doubled-down on with another unhinged take.
In a shocking twist, it is possible for me to be simultaneously frustrated at GW over not getting a battleforce and also laugh at wierd online nonsense. The duality of man!
I just don't get why we need to have this same conversation every year. Same thing always happens, why expect it to be different?
I also don't get the rage. I provided yall like 20 sources for the battleforces that you could order from, there were options available to get everything but the world Eaters one - if that's the one you wanted then I guess yeah you're SOL, but any of the other factions were available hours after sales went live. Some are even still available today just taking a cursory glance at some of the sites I listed.
GW now what they are doing, it's simple market economics. Produce a certain number of discounted feeder boxes that sellout, customers are then forced to buy the individual items from said boxes at full price. Yes, they may lose a few customers initially but overall, they'll end up making more profit at the end of the year.
chaos0xomega wrote: I just don't get why we need to have this same conversation every year. Same thing always happens, why expect it to be different?
It's not the same every year though. It's the same as some other GW releases in the past year, but these went quicker than last year's boxes, and I think in 2021 there we no availability issues at all.
I agree it's not a big deal and not worth getting angry about, but it's also not the exact same thing every year, availability is getting worse and worse and it's interesting to discuss why.
My experience is that last years boxes went quicker than this years boxes (maybe the world eaters box notwithstanding which seems to have evaporated faster than anyone anticipated - I will say that that is most likely largely due to scalpers as I was monitoring inventory levels on a variety of sites through various means over the course of the day, and saw large chunks of both this box and the nids box being removed from inventory 10 at a time, even while other boxes were only going in 1s and 2s), and same with the 2020 boxes.
Last year I was trying to hunt down copies of some boxes weeks after release still because my locals got stiffed in their allocations and they only had limited availability through various online sources. The year before that, everything flew off the shelves around here on released day with the exception of only the ork battleforce and a couple of the AoS boxes. This year, again, I'm still seeing inventory of everything except the "big three" boxes available across the board.
chaos0xomega wrote: I just don't get why we need to have this same conversation every year. Same thing always happens, why expect it to be different?
It's not the same every year though. It's the same as some other GW releases in the past year, but these went quicker than last year's boxes, and I think in 2021 there we no availability issues at all.
I agree it's not a big deal and not worth getting angry about, but it's also not the exact same thing every year, availability is getting worse and worse and it's interesting to discuss why.
Is availability getting worse, or did people buy the boxes quicker this time because a lot of previous ones were terrible?
This is the first time I've even attempted to buy one and they've covered factions I collect several times.
AFAIK ( talking to retailers) general GW sales are up this year.
GW however seem to not increase production to meet the demand ( hard to judge if they increased it or not... we simply have no knowledge of GW production numbers).
This is wild speculation, but my guess is that after all the warehouse trouble someone decided they would rather report being sold out than overstock/write-offs.
CoALabaer wrote: AFAIK ( talking to retailers) general GW sales are up this year.
GW however seem to not increase production to meet the demand ( hard to judge if they increased it or not... we simply have no knowledge of GW production numbers).
This is wild speculation, but my guess is that after all the warehouse trouble someone decided they would rather report being sold out than overstock/write-offs.
Yeah, availability is controlled by GW we dont get to see how many units they allocate for a specific set.
What we do know is that GW never released as much new product per week and months as they do now. The Production has increased immensely, just look at the amount of kits and new games they release every week... full armies in a couple weeks and so on.
I picked up last years' Sylvaneth box last week. Got the Kruelboyz one sometime in summer. Plenty of the boxes from last year were available well into this year which is also not the objective GW are trying to hit.
The reality is they overproduced some and underproduced others last year. May well be the same this year too but the notion that these sets always sell out in an hour isn't right. The most popular ones tend to but plenty of others don't.
deano2099 wrote: The reality is they overproduced some and underproduced others last year. May well be the same this year too but the notion that these sets always sell out in an hour isn't right. The most popular ones tend to but plenty of others don't.
It is quite interesting that despite having access to sales numbers of all individual kits, they're so staggeringly bad at predicting which unit people like/need that even at 35% bundle discount it's a coin toss if a box will sell or not.
deano2099 wrote: I picked up last years' Sylvaneth box last week. Got the Kruelboyz one sometime in summer. Plenty of the boxes from last year were available well into this year which is also not the objective GW are trying to hit.
The reality is they overproduced some and underproduced others last year. May well be the same this year too but the notion that these sets always sell out in an hour isn't right. The most popular ones tend to but plenty of others don't.
I'm tempted to say GW overestimates the popularity of AoS. Like they want to push the game by making stuff available in large enough numbers, but people aren't biting.
Let's not forget that GW introduced Warhammer Day the same year AoS 3rd ed was released and they sold leftover Dominion boxes for half the price, which was an unprecedented move at the time.
Whereas I doubt you'll have as easy a time finding 40k boxes so late.
deano2099 wrote: I picked up last years' Sylvaneth box last week. Got the Kruelboyz one sometime in summer. Plenty of the boxes from last year were available well into this year which is also not the objective GW are trying to hit.
The reality is they overproduced some and underproduced others last year. May well be the same this year too but the notion that these sets always sell out in an hour isn't right. The most popular ones tend to but plenty of others don't.
I'm tempted to say GW overestimates the popularity of AoS. Like they want to push the game by making stuff available in large enough numbers, but people aren't biting.
Let's not forget that GW introduced Warhammer Day the same year AoS 3rd ed was released and they sold leftover Dominion boxes for half the price, which was an unprecedented move at the time.
Whereas I doubt you'll have as easy a time finding 40k boxes so late.
Part of the issue with battleforces are the incessant need to have them individually packaged. Only collectors - who might I add, most likely don't even open them - want the special box they come in.
GW should just embrace specific discount bundles that the discount is automatically applied on the checkout, then have a note underneath stating any orders after the initial stock run have been allocated will be on a 180 day order. Boom, problem solved, scalpers can't scalp, genuine customers for the models can get their discounted models and everyone is happy in the end... A fair amount of people buying these bundles aren't looking to build and paint immediately, they can wait up to 6 months, most likely less than that.
If GW are really that concerned, they can limit the amount that go on made to order.
deano2099 wrote: I picked up last years' Sylvaneth box last week. Got the Kruelboyz one sometime in summer. Plenty of the boxes from last year were available well into this year which is also not the objective GW are trying to hit.
The reality is they overproduced some and underproduced others last year. May well be the same this year too but the notion that these sets always sell out in an hour isn't right. The most popular ones tend to but plenty of others don't.
I'm tempted to say GW overestimates the popularity of AoS. Like they want to push the game by making stuff available in large enough numbers, but people aren't biting.
Let's not forget that GW introduced Warhammer Day the same year AoS 3rd ed was released and they sold leftover Dominion boxes for half the price, which was an unprecedented move at the time.
Whereas I doubt you'll have as easy a time finding 40k boxes so late.
Not sure how it works but Leviathan still around?
There's still a huge amount of Leviatihan. Element cant' shift it and two stores close to me have it stacked up against the wall. Nobody really wanted it.
No one wants it at £150. With the starter sets, and the added space marines you don't get in the starter sets, it is still a great deal if you can get it for £120.
Rolsheen wrote: GW now what they are doing, it's simple market economics. Produce a certain number of discounted feeder boxes that sellout, customers are then forced to buy the individual items from said boxes at full price. Yes, they may lose a few customers initially but overall, they'll end up making more profit at the end of the year.
I will disagree with you here. GW doesn't know all that much of what they are doing. They are working it from an inventory perspective. But honestly producing more of the discount sets, not only gives more people an avenue to enter but also encourages those who have entered to start a new army. Most of this years holiday boxes are only like 800 points, they still make a profit on them but where they really make the profit is on people having to buy the individual kits to complete the army.. spending an extra $300-$500 dollars.
That is money they are leaving on the table, without the discount boxes, I don't think many people will go out on their own and just start a new army as easily as they would if they felt like they would if they were getting a deal.
I honestly think making them super limited is probably one of the most horrible marketing ideas possible. Only part of it that would make sense is they know they can only produce so much... then the problem is production, and if that is the problem that should be what they are addressing.
I think Element and the handful of other retailers who still have stock might be struggling to shift Leviathan because they priced it high - the cheapest it's available on Google Shopping or Amazon right now for me is £150, with a couple shops even pricing it higher than RRP!
I've just checked a bunch of retailers (Zatu, Dark Sphere, Goblin Gaming, Wayland, The Outpost, Kirton, Tritex, Firestorm, Leodis, Magic Madhouse, Hobby Workshop, Mighty Lancer) and they all seem to be sold out - it looks like the shops that offered even a slight discount and were easily discoverable online sold their stock! (The shops who have discounted it £110 are not appearing on Google, eBay or Amazon for me, which might explain why they're struggling to shift it?)
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Part of the issue with battleforces are the incessant need to have them individually packaged. Only collectors - who might I add, most likely don't even open them - want the special box they come in.
GW should just embrace specific discount bundles that the discount is automatically applied on the checkout, then have a note underneath stating any orders after the initial stock run have been allocated will be on a 180 day order. Boom, problem solved, scalpers can't scalp, genuine customers for the models can get their discounted models and everyone is happy in the end... A fair amount of people buying these bundles aren't looking to build and paint immediately, they can wait up to 6 months, most likely less than that.
If GW are really that concerned, they can limit the amount that go on made to order.
And gw benefits...how?
Seeing they can just sell full price sjme sprues.
It's not like gw even needs sales to those who only buy discount boxes. They can't even meet no-discount demand...
Somebody says gw misses his purchase because discount box sold out, well gw just sells full price kits to other.
Funny how people claim gw making mistake on amount while gw raking millions in profit and literally unable to meet demand with 24/7 production if you think gw doing wrong show company you run that outperforms gw
deano2099 wrote: I picked up last years' Sylvaneth box last week. Got the Kruelboyz one sometime in summer. Plenty of the boxes from last year were available well into this year which is also not the objective GW are trying to hit.
The reality is they overproduced some and underproduced others last year. May well be the same this year too but the notion that these sets always sell out in an hour isn't right. The most popular ones tend to but plenty of others don't.
I'm tempted to say GW overestimates the popularity of AoS. Like they want to push the game by making stuff available in large enough numbers, but people aren't biting.
Let's not forget that GW introduced Warhammer Day the same year AoS 3rd ed was released and they sold leftover Dominion boxes for half the price, which was an unprecedented move at the time.
Whereas I doubt you'll have as easy a time finding 40k boxes so late.
Absolutely, although last year I got the Death Guard and Thousand Sons boxes fairly easily. May have been on day of launch but I certainly wasn't up at 9am refreshing and trying desperately. Again, demand probably a bit lower on those given they included the big models, but like I say, it's absolutely not the same as last year. Admittedly if you missed out last year and missed out again this year it might feel that way but in terms of discussion it's not business as usual.
GW have sold out of everything but two so I'm not sure we can say they have mis-judged demand. Individual shops/web stores having them for ages is down to that individual shop overestimating demand, not GW. Same with Leviathan.
Kanluwen wrote: That doesn't track with Marines being one of the last to sell out.
It does when you consider how bad that individual box is. The overall trend of having newer stuff seems to have generated far more interest in certain boxes in recent years, the SM one is just too bad to overcome the fact it's got a couple of new kits in.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Part of the issue with battleforces are the incessant need to have them individually packaged. Only collectors - who might I add, most likely don't even open them - want the special box they come in.
GW should just embrace specific discount bundles that the discount is automatically applied on the checkout, then have a note underneath stating any orders after the initial stock run have been allocated will be on a 180 day order. Boom, problem solved, scalpers can't scalp, genuine customers for the models can get their discounted models and everyone is happy in the end... A fair amount of people buying these bundles aren't looking to build and paint immediately, they can wait up to 6 months, most likely less than that.
If GW are really that concerned, they can limit the amount that go on made to order.
And gw benefits...how?
Seeing they can just sell full price sjme sprues.
It's not like gw even needs sales to those who only buy discount boxes. They can't even meet no-discount demand...
Somebody says gw misses his purchase because discount box sold out, well gw just sells full price kits to other.
Funny how people claim gw making mistake on amount while gw raking millions in profit and literally unable to meet demand with 24/7 production if you think gw doing wrong show company you run that outperforms gw
At the very least, they don't have the faff of sorting out special packaging for the sake of it, which is a considerable bottleneck for multiple releases.
Rolsheen wrote: GW now what they are doing, it's simple market economics. Produce a certain number of discounted feeder boxes that sellout, customers are then forced to buy the individual items from said boxes at full price. Yes, they may lose a few customers initially but overall, they'll end up making more profit at the end of the year.
I will disagree with you here. GW doesn't know all that much of what they are doing. They are working it from an inventory perspective. But honestly producing more of the discount sets, not only gives more people an avenue to enter but also encourages those who have entered to start a new army. Most of this years holiday boxes are only like 800 points, they still make a profit on them but where they really make the profit is on people having to buy the individual kits to complete the army.. spending an extra $300-$500 dollars.
That is money they are leaving on the table, without the discount boxes, I don't think many people will go out on their own and just start a new army as easily as they would if they felt like they would if they were getting a deal.
I honestly think making them super limited is probably one of the most horrible marketing ideas possible. Only part of it that would make sense is they know they can only produce so much... then the problem is production, and if that is the problem that should be what they are addressing.
Honestly, if they set the price at the right level, people will buy the holiday boxes 2 at a time, so making more of them at a slightly lower price will probably make GW even more money... but again, they don't want to train their customer base to not buy anything all year and then spend all their money on christmas boxes (which is what I do - dropped about $2500 to get 20 of the damned things, and yes that is a bit more than half the price that should have cost me, I have a system and some connections, but I basically don't buy anything that isn't a limited release over the course of the rest of the year - I have enough backlog to keep me busy so its not like im wanting for things to work on, I'm only buying to get the best price possible).
Souleater wrote: My impression was that having newer models in this year’s boxes has also increased the interest for some folks.
That doesn't track with Marines being one of the last to sell out.
I think a lot of people were really put off by the bikes and buggy from the Marine box. Ultimately if you don't need those there's no discount (and they've also been done cheaply recently elsewhere), and five Jump Intercessors is a weird size choice. If they'd just put twenty jump Intercessors and, say, a Speeder or the multipart Terminators in it I suspect it would have been a lot more popular.
I certainly bought the Nid box because it have me a decent chunk of all the new models for a discount, and the only extra model is a Hive Tyrant which have a few different builds at least and are rarely discounted otherwise.
That's the weird thing about the Marine one. I totally get why it's the least popular 40k one, but it's also the one I wanted the most as it has exactly what I wanted in there: a second Jump Pack Captain, 15 Assault Intercessors (bringing me to 20), and 3 more Outriders (bringing me to 12). And yeah, the ATV, *shrug*, that's fine I guess. But everything else is exactly what I needed, which is weird.
It's a bit like last year. I wanted 30 Heavy Intercessors. They just happened to put out a box with 15. I bought two and sold the Aggressors/1 Imp Fist special character to a friend.
I honestly have started more armies just by picking up the holiday boxes. They are such a good value, aside from new edition boxes it is the one time i splurge. If i couldn't find or get atleast one of an army I was interested, I would not be inclined to start a new army, I would just spend my hobby dollars elsewhere. There are a lot of other games out there that offer decent value and are not impossible to get. The shatter point box or the new marvel crisis box. Both are fantastic and cheaper then GW. To be honestly the only thing that keeps me into 40k is the holiday boxes, new edition box sets and to some extent some of the combat patrols. If it wasn't for them I would never have started several new armies or ever owned a newer large model. I set my limit for a centerpiece model at $125 awhile back now that most are in the $170 range I would never buy them. But I do like them. Last year I got the Deathguard and Thousand sons box sets only because they had the main certerpiece model. After buying the holiday boxes I added to those armies buying squads. But I never would have done that without the holiday box.
Agreed. I just started World Eaters and Seraphon thanks to holiday boxes
Likewise, the 2-player battleboxes (which I think GW may have discontinued as its been a while), army launch boxes, killteam/warcry boxes, and combat patrols/vanguards have been what has been keeping me stocked with kits to build. Its rare for me to go out and buy an individual kit of something, I have to really want it or be actively involved in trying to get an army tabletop ready.
chaos0xomega wrote: Agreed. I just started World Eaters and Seraphon thanks to holiday boxes
Likewise, the 2-player battleboxes (which I think GW may have discontinued as its been a while), army launch boxes, killteam/warcry boxes, and combat patrols/vanguards have been what has been keeping me stocked with kits to build. Its rare for me to go out and buy an individual kit of something, I have to really want it or be actively involved in trying to get an army tabletop ready.
Ya I have not seen the two player boxes outside the new edition release in awhile but those were good as well, though a lot less points, but were still a good deal. I ordered the World Eaters as well, i love the big centerpiece models but their price i wouldn't buy them individually. I wish someone around me played Age of sigmar as that Seraphon box looks awesome.
1. They might contain something new that you want. 2. Everything else will be old kits that will flood the second-hand market, causing the prices to plummet!
Yep, but also if you collect just about every army in 40k/AoS, they were a good way of fleshing out multiple armies at once. The price point for the 2 player boxes also tended to be more competitive than battleforces or launch boxes, if a launch box or battleforce was going for $200, the 2 player boxes tended to go for $170 despite containing similar quantities of goodies.
Not sure if we're discussing GW's webstore or the wider Internet, but talk about the Marine box got me to check GW's Gernan webstore and everything but the vampire box is out of stock. I haven't really followed it this year, but it seems to me like the Marine box is popular enough when it's gone after a quarter of the pre-order period. I mean, I'm sure someone at GW is upset that it didn't sell out in five seconds, but I don't know if being the least popular 40k box is such a big deal here.
We do not even know if the SM box was the least popular box... because we do not know how many were produced ( one must assume they did produce more SM boxes than others. But again: noone knows how many).
One thing is sure: they sold out too soon to be possible christmas "presents" for "children".
(Again: we do not know If they were supposed to be)
Oh yea I forgot two player boxes were even a thing, must be a while since the last one. There were a few big duds towards the end tho, I think the FLGS still has a few.
Gimgamgoo wrote: I assume we've all considered that GW made far more Marine boxes than the others, after all, they are their best seller.
I've heard from several places that the battleforces were sold to 3rd party retailers via the trade accounts as full sets for 40k / AOS, each set containing one of each box. To sell ten Tyranid or WE boxes they would also need to buy ten marine / ork / etc boxes.
Obviously they could still sell more marine boxes via their own website, but it implies they were produced in fairly even quantities.
), including virtually all the bikes, leaving us with an option-less squad of 3 that are always in the same poses, an ATV, and a single character capable of leading them.
)
