auticus wrote: Well AOS borrowed heavily from the warmachine design ethos when they aborted rank and flank battle from the design, so this is not surprising.
Current thinking is that these skeletons are an addition to the current range, right? Can't help but feel worried they might start replacing the more traditional current range with new designs, but they did release the Shadespire team matching the old gothic skeletons for AoS at least. In addition, the new units seem to cover things not in the existing range - artillery, monstrous (or at least larger) cavalry and new skellie characters.
Coenus Scaldingus wrote: Current thinking is that these skeletons are an addition to the current range, right? Can't help but feel worried they might start replacing the more traditional current range with new designs, but they did release the Shadespire team matching the old gothic skeletons for AoS at least. In addition, the new units seem to cover things not in the existing range - artillery, monstrous (or at least larger) cavalry and new skellie characters.
I've been thinking the same. This could be the beginning of the end for generic death models, e.g. skellies, zombies, etc. It wouldn't be immediate but I was thinking along the lines of what they're doing to traditional space marines.
I'd expect the zombie and Dire Wolf kits to go away/be replaced sooner than later, as both are pretty dated by now. The Black Knight/Hexwraith kit is another I don't expect to see last more than a few years, especially with the new cavalry unit coming along with this faction.
Relentless. Disciplined. Deathless. These are the Ossiarch Bonereapers – the culmination of centuries of planning by Nagash and the harbingers of his dark reign. Where the Legions of Nagash are the foot soldiers of Death and the Nighthaunt are the shock troops, the Ossiarch Bonereapers are the vanguard of a new order.
These are not risen warriors or malignant spirits – they are bespoke war-constructs forged from harvested bone and gifted the soul animus of great warriors and heroes. Alone, they have hundreds of lifetimes of experience and brutal physical prowess. Unified, they are nigh unstoppable, directed into battle by Katakros, Mortarch of the Necropolis – perhaps the greatest military strategist (living, or dead) the Mortal Realms have ever known.
The backbone (see what we did there?) of the Ossiarch Bonereapers are the legions of Mortek Guard and spearheads of Kavalos Deathriders. Each contains the souls of dozens of mortal warriors, and each is a brutally effective combatant, fighting with utter discipline even in the most chaotic battles. These warriors aren’t automata – they have personalities befitting their roles in Nagash’s dark regime. While Mortek Guard are forthright and dutiful, Kavalos Deathriders are possessed of towering arrogance, as suits their role as heralds of the Great Necromancer.
The more elite echelons of the Ossiarch Bonereapers are made up of a variety of bizarre and deadly construct-warriors created by the twisted, magical bio-engineers of the Mortisian priesthood. Necropolis Stalkers, for instance, are infused with the souls of four legendary warriors apiece, giving them the ability to shift personalities mid-battle in order to change their fighting style.
In addition to these warriors, the Ossiarch Bonereapers also make vast and horrific war machines. The Mortek Crawler is a semi-sentient siege engine that devastates fortifications and formations alike with deadly hails of magical ammunition.
Leading the Ossiarch Bonereapers is none other than Katakros himself. This is no embittered spirit, arch-schemer of the world-that-was or devoted sycophant, but a terrifying new paragon of unlife itself. Granted a new existence in a body of ensorcelled bone, Orpheon Katakros is Nagash’s plan for the Mortal Realms made manifest – efficient, remorseless and instilled with a chilling disregard for life. He’s a real chip off the ol’ Black Pyramid
Katakros is a fascinating character. Once a general of the Mortal Realms, he is a master of strategy, tactics and diplomacy with aeons of conquest under his belt. Even if you’re not going all-in on the new Ossiarch Bonereapers, this stunning miniature will be a pleasure to paint and an eye-catching display piece for your collection in its own right.
I like the basic troops and four armed ones, the rest is pretty so so. A bit over the top I guess. I imagine the morghast archai will fit right in with this army though.
Man I want the Samurai guy hanging out with the Mortarch on his own base with his own rules. Maybe count as wight lord or whatever other smaller CC hero they get?
Looks like conversion fodder for Necrons, among a bunch of goofy looking minis (seriously those grins on the infantry did the Joker build these things?).
Glad GW continues it's trend of not making anything I care about.
That bird faced guy that comes on the Mortarch's base is awesome. I don't know what I'd use him for, but I want him. The Corvus Cabal could go well with him...
Yup same here, Asian styled, undead constructs? Sign me right up, also this army is for people who want an elite force from the look of things.
They're not Asian styled. That much is pretty clear now that we can actually see them.
They're not Gothic, which is a welcome change. That was getting tiresome. But they're not Asian-influenced.
Er what? The four-armed constructs with multiple faces? The helms of the riders? The mortarch himself and the attendants? The Mongolian, Samurai and perhaps hindu influences are pretty clear to me. Hell the bloody accent of the Mortarch.
MegaDombro wrote: Wow the new undead army is silly looking. Tomb King got squatted for this?
These look about seven hundred times more interesting than the Tomb Kings.
To each their own. The more recent TK kits like Sphinx and Necropolis Knights had much more fantasy appeal. These are very mundane. If they appeal to you, happy collecting I guess.
MegaDombro wrote: Wow the new undead army is silly looking. Tomb King got squatted for this?
These look about seven hundred times more interesting than the Tomb Kings.
To each their own. The more recent TK kits like Sphinx and Necropolis Knights had much more fantasy appeal. These are very mundane. If they appeal to you, happy collecting I guess.
I mean, sure I can get everyone liking them, but these look 'mundane' and 'not fantasy' enough for you... Like how the feth? If you disliked them for being too weird and not historically inspired enough I would disagree with you but get it, but mundane...
I hate to chime in and just pile on, because, you know, we could just move on with our lives...
but wow, these are maybe the lamest range of models to come out in... I don't even know. Terrible. Not just GW, but of anyone that has ever produced models in the past decade or two
Yup same here, Asian styled, undead constructs? Sign me right up, also this army is for people who want an elite force from the look of things.
They're not Asian styled. That much is pretty clear now that we can actually see them.
They're not Gothic, which is a welcome change. That was getting tiresome. But they're not Asian-influenced.
Er what? The four-armed constructs with multiple faces? The helms of the riders? The mortarch himself and the attendants? The Mongolian, Samurai and perhaps hindu influences are pretty clear to me. Hell the bloody accent of the Mortarch.
Aside from the fact that some of the new miniatures have mounts and swords (that aren't styled the same), I'm not really seeing much of a similarity there. The armor really seems more like "exotic fantasy soldiers from a distant land" style, as opposed to any geographical area that matches up even loosely with the real world.
Hmmm. I feel like I am sensing disappointment that these guys are not the Tomb Kings or Tomb Khans Folks expected. Perhaps there was too much reading into the voice actor’s accent from the “Tithe” videos?
But really looking these guys up and down they MOST fit with NAGASH and the MORGHASTS. I feel like this is the culmination of His sculpt from the End Times.
I'm actually completely indifferent to Tomb Kings.
The models are goofy looking. They're buffed up skeletons with codpieces, pointy hats, and dumb grins. The Mortarch looks like a guy in a green man suit.
It looks like the sculptor took assets from other models, mashed them together, and rounded some edges to make them look "boney"
Cataphract wrote: Hmmm. I feel like I am sensing disappointment that these guys are not the Tomb Kings or Tomb Khans Folks expected. Perhaps there was too much reading into the voice actor’s accent from the “Tithe” videos?
But really looking these guys up and down they MOST fit with NAGASH and the MORGHASTS. I feel like this is the culmination of His sculpt from the End Times.
Guilty of that, to an extent. In hindsight, knowing these guys were going to be styled after the Morghasts should have tempered my expectations quite heavily, but I suppose I was still hoping for something more akin to Deathrattle getting an expansion like Nighthaunt did. They haven't shown off the full range yet, so there might be a bit more to it that I like.
But that said, the actual sculpts are more the problem than the designs themselves. The way the troops look compared to the black samurai by the Mortarch's side. I don't think any aesthetic would salvage such a goofy appearance, Kings, Khans, or otherwise.
Yup same here, Asian styled, undead constructs? Sign me right up, also this army is for people who want an elite force from the look of things.
They're not Asian styled. That much is pretty clear now that we can actually see them.
They're not Gothic, which is a welcome change. That was getting tiresome. But they're not Asian-influenced.
Er what? The four-armed constructs with multiple faces? The helms of the riders? The mortarch himself and the attendants? The Mongolian, Samurai and perhaps hindu influences are pretty clear to me. Hell the bloody accent of the Mortarch.
Aside from the fact that some of the new miniatures have mounts and swords (that aren't styled the same), I'm not really seeing much of a similarity there. The armor really seems more like "exotic fantasy soldiers from a distant land" style, as opposed to any geographical area that matches up even loosely with the real world.
I think you're reading 'styled or inspired by' as 'specifically patterned after'. These figures definitely have ancient Asian design elements too them. It's not as obvious as the Egyptian look of the Tomb Kings, the Aztec/Inca Look of Lizard men, or the American Civil war look of the Maggotkin , but it's there. The artists definitely were inspired by many different things from ancient culture, and people shouldn't be corrected for seeing that. Maybe they can't articulate specific things to what looks like what real life example, probably because the artists did a good job of blending elements together. I think the days of armies being a full take of ancient cultures are over (or 'LEGENDS', as they seem to want to call it...). Which doesn't bode well for them making more Babylonian themed chaos dwarfs.
I think they're cool. Someone mentioned they are sort of Nagash's take on Stormcast, which is pretty cool. I'm wondering if there's anything else for them that we haven't seen yet?
The finger bone's connected to the hand bone,
The hand bone's connected to the arm bone,
The arm bone's connected to the shoulder bone,
Now shake dem skeleton bones!
Dem bones, dem bones gonna walk around
Dem bones, dem bones, gonna walk around
Dem bones, dem bones, gonna walk around
Now shake dem skeleton bones!
Is all I can think of. What an awful faction design.
I think you're reading 'styled or inspired by' as 'specifically patterned after'. These figures definitely have ancient Asian design elements too them. It's not as obvious as the Egyptian look of the Tomb Kings, the Aztec/Inca Look of Lizard men, or the American Civil war look of the Maggotkin , but it's there. The artists definitely were inspired by many different things from ancient culture, and people shouldn't be corrected for seeing that. Maybe they can't articulate specific things to what looks like what real life example, probably because the artists did a good job of blending elements together. I think the days of armies being a full take of ancient cultures are over (or 'LEGENDS', as they seem to want to call it...). Which doesn't bode well for them making more Babylonian themed chaos dwarfs.
With one exception, there's nothing there. Best I can figure is that the early mention of "Mongolian" as an inspiration before the unveiling has caused people to see Asian influences in it. But in response to those comments, I posted some Mongolians to show that there was no similarity. If they were influenced, then I'd expect to see some similarities. But there's nothing to work with. For that matter, the big guy in the middle of the platform looks like nothing so much as one of the Dredge characters from The Banner Saga with less clothes. And The Banner Saga wasn't an Asian-influenced game. The shields definitely aren't Mongolian or Chinese (they do look like a design I've seen and can't place, but I'm pretty sure that it's a fictional one). The helmets look like German helmets from World War 2, with impractical ornamentation added in typical GW fashion.
Now as I said, there is an exception. The guy standing on the edge of the platform is holding a sword that could pass for a katana. But that's it.
To be frank, the thing that most comes to mind when I look at the gear on these guys is the Scorpion Harness from Final Fantasy XI. And while that game is made by a Japanese company, the gear was Western in appearance and style (with exceptions for the explicitly Japanese-inspired jobs of Samurai and Ninja).
I'll also note that the more I look at the face of the foot soldier at the bottom of the very first picture, the more I'm reminded of the very very old goofy Chaos Androids that GW had waaaaaaaay back during the Rogue Trader era. I know it's not really a good fit. But I can't shake the image.
I think you're reading 'styled or inspired by' as 'specifically patterned after'. These figures definitely have ancient Asian design elements too them. It's not as obvious as the Egyptian look of the Tomb Kings, the Aztec/Inca Look of Lizard men, or the American Civil war look of the Maggotkin , but it's there. The artists definitely were inspired by many different things from ancient culture, and people shouldn't be corrected for seeing that. Maybe they can't articulate specific things to what looks like what real life example, probably because the artists did a good job of blending elements together. I think the days of armies being a full take of ancient cultures are over (or 'LEGENDS', as they seem to want to call it...). Which doesn't bode well for them making more Babylonian themed chaos dwarfs.
With one exception, there's nothing there. Best I can figure is that the early mention of "Mongolian" as an inspiration before the unveiling has caused people to see Asian influences in it. But in response to those comments, I posted some Mongolians to show that there was no similarity. If they were influenced, then I'd expect to see some similarities. But there's nothing to work with. For that matter, the big guy in the middle of the platform looks like nothing so much as one of the Dredge characters from The Banner Saga with less clothes. And The Banner Saga wasn't an Asian-influenced game. The shields definitely aren't Mongolian or Chinese (they do look like a design I've seen and can't place, but I'm pretty sure that it's a fictional one). The helmets look like German helmets from World War 2, with impractical ornamentation added in typical GW fashion.
Now as I said, there is an exception. The guy standing on the edge of the platform is holding a sword that could pass for a katana. But that's it.
To be frank, the thing that most comes to mind when I look at the gear on these guys is the Scorpion Harness from Final Fantasy XI. And while that game is made by a Japanese company, the gear was Western in appearance and style (with exceptions for the explicitly Japanese-inspired jobs of Samurai and Ninja).
I'll also note that the more I look at the face of the foot soldier at the bottom of the very first picture, the more I'm reminded of the very very old goofy Chaos Androids that GW had waaaaaaaay back during the Rogue Trader era. I know it's not really a good fit. But I can't shake the image.
The guy with the Katana is very Samurai in general, not just his sword.
I think you're reading 'styled or inspired by' as 'specifically patterned after'. These figures definitely have ancient Asian design elements too them. It's not as obvious as the Egyptian look of the Tomb Kings, the Aztec/Inca Look of Lizard men, or the American Civil war look of the Maggotkin , but it's there. The artists definitely were inspired by many different things from ancient culture, and people shouldn't be corrected for seeing that. Maybe they can't articulate specific things to what looks like what real life example, probably because the artists did a good job of blending elements together. I think the days of armies being a full take of ancient cultures are over (or 'LEGENDS', as they seem to want to call it...). Which doesn't bode well for them making more Babylonian themed chaos dwarfs.
With one exception, there's nothing there. Best I can figure is that the early mention of "Mongolian" as an inspiration before the unveiling has caused people to see Asian influences in it. But in response to those comments, I posted some Mongolians to show that there was no similarity.
You're right, not Mongolian but clearly more Japanese on the Calvary can't really say anything else is overly Asian outside of the 3 headed design which is a common in various eastern cultures mythology. Skullking is right. GW wants to move away from direct ancient civ copies in their game and come up with things that are more visually unique as they're more copyrightable (duh) but also make them stand out from all the more generic fantasy stuff out there as well as the armies indented to copy old WFB stuff. Pretty much both of those were the big points of AoS reason for existing.
I feel like these painted up to look like they were made of wood might make them really cool. Otherwise I can see a few useful bits and bops here or there for conversions, but not much otherwise that interests me.
Had expected.. better.
Skeletons enclosed in bone-armour that's not really made from individual bones, but a bone-type material?
Skulls that look angry...
And I really don't even want to imagine how Katakros is a sensible, practical model with a pricetag any mortal will be willing to spend.
Ah well. All money that can be spent on other things instead. Preciously little of which is produced under the AoS banner...
Poor Tomb Kings. To be replaced by this. Even with a unit called Necropolis Stalkers. Just waiting for Sepulchral Knights now.
Ok, aside from the guy on the left here. He's looking good. Shame the rest of the range doesn't match.
It's not that I wanted or expected them all to be undead samurai, it's just that that's a design that works so much better than what they've gone for.
Nope. I'm not feeling theses. They look like the should be descending Snake Mountain to attack Castle Grayskull. It might just be the color palette though. They look very 1980's Saturday morning cartoons to me.
Solid yuck. These guys look goofy as hell. A poster in another thread (Stonehorse?) said they reminded him He-man and now all I can think of is Skeletor when I look at them......they are that silly. They look like they belong in Mummies Alive! not AoS.
Which is a shame, as I was expecting some awesome skeletons with a unique aesthetic and bone constructs that are actually made of bones......not chitin posing as bones? Or some bone composite that isn't actually a bone?
A shame because a few parts of the range show promise (The Samurai is first that comes to mind).
I like them. They went for something more interesting than just more reanimated skellies, and while some of it, like the heads on the basic troops,look a little goofy, so does any skeleton head, they can't help smiling.
Anyway, looking forward to these, unless they play like pants ofc.
Love the catapult and the Mortarch - although I would agree it would be cool for the courtiers to be able to used on their own - but it does not look like they have bases.....
I do quite like Nagash's Stormcast.
Interested to read how the other Mortarchs react to them......
Having spent a few hundred on the recentnot tomb kings kickstarter - these should mix nicely (and the latter are good proxies for those who don;t like 'em )
Given how much hype GW tried to put into their release, this whole reveal feels very underwhelming. I wasn't expecting Tomb Kings - anyone who was is just delusional - but I wasn't expecting this either.
but wow, these are maybe the lamest range of models to come out in... I don't even know. Terrible. Not just GW, but of anyone that has ever produced models in the past decade or two
Because raging internet hyperbole makes everything better.
Upon some consideration, the paintjob is doing those models no favours. If you're going to do bone golems, do bone golems.
From otherwise unsubstantiated reddit rumors, the mortarch and the retinue have united statline, and to kill him, you have to fight through the bodyguards (different statlines at different wound levels), so probably a reverse of most wound-tracks, where the model gets stronger the more it's hurt.
The Mortarch with retinue looks great, the rest not so much.
What's with the dumb, fixed grins? Most of the models come across as goofy, when they were probably intended to look malevolent. I'm just not feeling it.
And since when did bone become a plastic material you could manipulate into any shape or form? These dudes aren't proper undead, they're just golems which happens to have been manufactured, somehow, from bones. And the bones have such unreasonable forms and sizes to make them indecipherable as bones. For the most part they mimic the exoskeletons of insects and crustaceans, but we all know these are made from chitin and not bones, which are mostly calcium.
Why bones in particular? Why not wood or clay or any other commonplace material? What about using the clay soil from a cemetery?
With the whole Asian thing, why couldn't they've made terracotta soldier type golems in stead of this, which in my opinion doesn't succeed in either being "undead" or "golems".
I don't like the standard dudes and riders. Maybe it's the paintjob, the black stone/ivory/obsidian leader dude on the Mortarch's base with red armour looks a lot better. I like the three headed constructs. I love the death-apult and I love, love, LOVE the I-can't-believe-it's-not-an-evil-Avatar-of-Khaine Mortarch. And the monster horsies - minus the riders.
I'm not sure I'm sold on them generally, but the Mortarch is genuinely excellent as a model. I think there's a lot of modelling opportunities there too.
Why bones in particular? Why not wood or clay or any other commonplace material? What about using the clay soil from a cemetery?
Lorewise? Because Nagash is lord of undeath, and i imagine finds shapeshifting dead bone easier than shapeshifting things like dirt or trees. That, and being Shyish bones are more readily available, just pop to your nearest Mortuary Factory for some
Designwise, because it's an undead army, they have to fit at least somehow with the rest and mutated bone fits that better than terracotta.
Cronch wrote: From otherwise unsubstantiated reddit rumors, the mortarch and the retinue have united statline, and to kill him, you have to fight through the bodyguards (different statlines at different wound levels), so probably a reverse of most wound-tracks, where the model gets stronger the more it's hurt.
This was discussed on Warhammer weekly by Vince who was at the seminar. It is definitely accurate. I like the notion that the Mortarch will only deign to fight when his opponent has shown thier worth.
I shall refer to the Ossifactor Bonereapers as OBo. See how they like that!
Going to be difficult to resist getting in on these models. Gah...so much unpainted stuff and I have been hoping they would release a Death army with an aesthetic I liked.
Zingraff wrote: The Mortarch with retinue looks great, the rest not so much.
What's with the dumb, fixed grins? Most of the models come across as goofy, when they were probably intended to look malevolent. I'm just not feeling it.
And since when did bone become a plastic material you could manipulate into any shape or form? These dudes aren't proper undead, they're just golems which happens to have been manufactured, somehow, from bones. And the bones have such unreasonable forms and sizes to make them indecipherable as bones. For the most part they mimic the exoskeletons of insects and crustaceans, but we all know these are made from chitin and not bones, which are mostly calcium.
Why bones in particular? Why not wood or clay or any other commonplace material? What about using the clay soil from a cemetery?
With the whole Asian thing, why couldn't they've made terracotta soldier type golems in stead of this, which in my opinion doesn't succeed in either being "undead" or "golems".
With the way they are designed if you just painted them a reddish terracotta colour they'd be terracotta warriors.
I think bones because its a DEATH faction and it sort of fits their theme more than clay.
Cronch wrote: From otherwise unsubstantiated reddit rumors, the mortarch and the retinue have united statline, and to kill him, you have to fight through the bodyguards (different statlines at different wound levels), so probably a reverse of most wound-tracks, where the model gets stronger the more it's hurt.
This was discussed on Warhammer weekly by Vince who was at the seminar. It is definitely accurate. I like the notion that the Mortarch will only deign to fight when his opponent has shown thier worth.
So what happens when opponents do the sensible thing and drop arrows/bombs/Gatling lasers on the group rather than nutty serial challenges? Does he not fight?
(Though odds are the game ignores that sort of fluff)
Cronch wrote: From otherwise unsubstantiated reddit rumors, the mortarch and the retinue have united statline, and to kill him, you have to fight through the bodyguards (different statlines at different wound levels), so probably a reverse of most wound-tracks, where the model gets stronger the more it's hurt.
This was discussed on Warhammer weekly by Vince who was at the seminar. It is definitely accurate. I like the notion that the Mortarch will only deign to fight when his opponent has shown thier worth.
So what happens when opponents do the sensible thing and drop arrows/bombs/Gatling lasers on the group rather than nutty serial challenges? Does he not fight?
(Though odds are the game ignores that sort of fluff)
Pretty sure that, being bodyguards, the idea is that they step in front of any harm intended for the big guy until they’re all … well, not dead dead, but certainly immobile.
Anyway, given that he’s got a variable stat line like most monsters (and 40k vehicles if you’re more familiar with them) only a few of his stats will change, probably his number of attacks and hit/damage chance.
I wasn't expecting much considering the precedents, so not too surprised that most models are quite off-putting. But I like the catapult. Overall it has that cartoony chuncky model esthetic GW seems so fond of nowadays. Some good concepts and artwork wrecked by clumsy execution (just like ID, for example).
Can't complain though, it's a good thing GW keeps me away from their models. There are too many companies out there already producing outstanding stuff.
I like the bone part of the Bonereapers, but it's their equipment that's putting me off ( weird toyish armor plates mostly ). So, none for me thanks.
Shrike looks goofy to me and the banshee dull... Dayum what's going on GW ?
Sisters are looking good, sharp and dynamic. It's not my kind of stuff though. Exept the repentia, if the overpricing is reasonable, i might buy a box.
Sorry for not being hyped and not wanting to "BUY EVERYTHING !!!!! OMG OMG OMG" ... but honestly the most disappointing reveal in like, a decade for me.
Not a fan yet. Though like most things once we see other angles and different paint schemes it might change. Looks to warmahordes/machine to me, and I’m just not a fan of that aesthetic.
They seem pretty appropriate for Age of Sigmar to me, very He-Man which is what I thought they were going for with their over the top aesthetics. Not my bag, but I think they are consistent with the saturday morning cartoon over the top fantasy look of AoS.
These guys do nothing for me. I don't think it's just the paint job, but I'd like to see a different take on them. Maybe that'll improve the army enough that I take more of an interest.
The large infantry and catapult seem to look decent, though.
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's the big goofy cartoon grins that the troops have that put me off.
That's the first thing about them that I noticed and I think it may have tainted my perception of the range for good.
Zingraff wrote: ... What about using the clay soil from a cemetery?
With the whole Asian thing, why couldn't they've made terracotta soldier type golems in stead of this, which in my opinion doesn't succeed in either being "undead" or "golems".
With the way they are designed if you just painted them a reddish terracotta colour they'd be terracotta warriors.
I think bones because its a DEATH faction and it sort of fits their theme more than clay.
Here's the thing, the soil of most cemeteries which have been in use for some time, has at some point been decomposed bodies. Even the bones from the bodies buried there will become soil within a couple of decades.
This is particularly noticeable in the churchyards surrounding medieval churches. The church will appear as if it has sunken into the ground, sometimes sitting in a hollow surrounded by mounds of dirt. When the church was constructed maybe 900 years ago, it was built on the summit of a hill, but the centuries of burying thousands of people raise the ground considerably.
In a way, all this dirt is dead people, tens of thousands of them. Excavating a cemetery and kneading the dirt into a clay, you have a material which is as much infused with the souls of the dead as any bone, if not more so, seeing how one bone = one person, while an equal amount of cemetery soil is a concentration of corpses. If anything clay from a cemetery is MORE DEATH than any single bone.
JSG wrote: Wow, there's an awful lot of wrong opinions in this thread. Personally I love them. I especially like that Wayne Barlowe is an obvious influence.
I was thinking about Barlowe too! These models are absolutely amazing, but people here like conservative boring stuff.
Zingraff wrote: ... What about using the clay soil from a cemetery?
With the whole Asian thing, why couldn't they've made terracotta soldier type golems in stead of this, which in my opinion doesn't succeed in either being "undead" or "golems".
With the way they are designed if you just painted them a reddish terracotta colour they'd be terracotta warriors.
I think bones because its a DEATH faction and it sort of fits their theme more than clay.
Here's the thing, the soil of most cemeteries which have been in use for some time, has at some point been decomposed bodies. Even the bones from the bodies buried there will become soil within a couple of decades.
This is particularly noticeable in the churchyards surrounding medieval churches. The church will appear as if it has sunken into the ground, sometimes sitting in a hollow surrounded by mounds of dirt. When the church was constructed maybe 900 years ago, it was built on the summit of a hill, but the centuries of burying thousands of people raise the ground considerably.
In a way, all this dirt is dead people, tens of thousands of them. Excavating a cemetery and kneading the dirt into a clay, you have a material which is as much infused with the souls of the dead as any bone, if not more so, seeing how one bone = one person, while an equal amount of cemetery soil is a concentration of corpses. If anything clay from a cemetery is MORE DEATH than any single bone.
Not a bad take, but I think GW's most important consideration is how much of it comes across from simply looking at the model.
Made of bones = Bone legion, no doubt!
Made of dirt = Umm, what's that? Clay? Ash? Bone dust? Oh, soul-infused graveyard earth. Hey, I would have guessed that eventually!
GW does work subtler things into their models, but they tend to go for obvious and strong designs for parts that define faction identity so that you look at the model and don't have to put any thought into figuring out what it's supposed to be.
JSG wrote: Wow, there's an awful lot of wrong opinions in this thread. Personally I love them. I especially like that Wayne Barlowe is an obvious influence.
I was thinking about Barlowe too! These models are absolutely amazing, but people here like conservative boring stuff.
Not liking models looking like saturday morning childrens cartoons is boring and conservative. Gotcha.
The sad thing is we know GW can do over the top stuff well because 40k exists. AoS just seems to be going full on silly and not in a good way.
Geifer wrote: That's the first thing about them that I noticed and I think it may have tainted my perception of the range for good.
That's probably the easiest thing to fix though.
Note that I'm not going to argue that the ability to convert a model to look better is somehow a selling point, or makes the criticism of the base kit irrelevant.
Geifer wrote: That's the first thing about them that I noticed and I think it may have tainted my perception of the range for good.
That's probably the easiest thing to fix though.
Note that I'm not going to argue that the ability to convert a model to look better is somehow a selling point, or makes the criticism of the base kit irrelevant.
Nice. Top left one tells me the head is already improved if the nose goes. I hadn't even figured in the nose yet.
I used to uparmor Mk.VII Marine helmets in 4th ed to cover the grille. I could see that working on these guys, too, turning their masks into actual helmets. Come to think of it, I did the same thing with my Darkoath Warqueen.
And while I'm not one of the people who asked for terracotta soldiers, I think terracotta might actually be a pretty cool color to paint their armor.
The sad thing is we know GW can do over the top stuff well because 40k exists. AoS just seems to be going full on silly and not in a good way.
40k is actually pretty bland and "over the top" only in lore. AoS at least tries to put that high fantasy style on the models instead of hiding it in books like Marinehammer.
I've fixed the biggest problem of the Immobile Mortarch - please excuse the sloppy photoshop
BEHOLD
Honestly the war engine looks huge as it is so this might be quite a practical and possible (though not cheap) conversion that really fits with the army's aesthetics.
Overread wrote: I've fixed the biggest problem of the Immobile Mortarch - please excuse the sloppy photoshop
BEHOLD
Honestly the war engine looks huge as it is so this might be quite a practical and possible (though not cheap) conversion that really fits with the army's aesthetics.
I really do not see any problem with that Mortarch as is, or how he's supposedly immobile. Unless I'm missing something? Do the stairs he's on prevent him and his buddies from just walking off of it? I might actually have to check the size of this Mortarch, and see if he can be combined with a Mortis Engine/Coven Throne. Might even work better than messing about with what is invariably going to be a hideously expensive catapult kit.
Okay with the models overall, but I'dd need to have them in front of me and be painting them myself before I can properly judge them.
Edit: or even turn the entire stairs thingie he's standing on into a Mortis Engine style platform.
Wow so much hate... sheesh. I get people can like what they like, just wasn’t expecting them to see this much criticism, cos I love these guys. Clearly I have bad taste haha.
Tiberius501 wrote: Wow so much hate... sheesh. I get people can like what they like, just wasn’t expecting them to see this much criticism, cos I love these guys. Clearly I have bad taste haha.
It's to be expected, very few armies have everyone loving them. Plus lets not forget this is a very surprising take on the theme, and really before now all we knew was "skeleton army". It wasn't even until the last video that we even saw a hint of what they'd look like. So there was a lot of personal dreaming up of ideas. Some will have matched it; some will have been totally different. So there's a bit of "Oh its not what I thought it would be - disappointment!" Also don't forget thus far most of us only have some photos - in my experience it really takes models in the plastic before you can judge them.
I'd wager the "hate" is nothing to worry about. It's only a concern if we reach 2 months after launch and the hate team are going strong and sales are low and the love/buying side are so time its impossible to see them. That's when we can worry.
Caught these last night, guess my hot take is that I'm disappointed. I honestly was taking deep breaths and preparing to buy a massive legion of skeletons in segmented 'Mortarch' plate ... and we got Eevil Stormcast, Eevil Sylvaneth and Eevil Varanguard. Characters are cool - Kotal Kahn in the house <3 - and the bone constructs are neat as a concept, they just about all fall flat for me due to proportions and dumb heads and what not. I really do want a legion of skeletons in distinctive armor tho, so might cast my gaze back to Mierce's Jutes ...
For those super jazzed by the bone thing, check out Para Bellum's Conquest for another wargame's take.
Tiberius501 wrote: Wow so much hate... sheesh. I get people can like what they like, just wasn’t expecting them to see this much criticism, cos I love these guys. Clearly I have bad taste haha.
I feel the same way everytime I see people loving AOS double turn mechanics or loving how heavy list building impacts the game.
Its easy to chalk this up as bitter haters that just hate because its not tomb kings hate.
I don't care that they aren't tomb kings.
I care that:
* they look like insects
* they look like they came out of masters of the universe cartoon
* they have big cartoon grins
* they look like a cross between s ylvaneth, necrons, and tyranids
* i want something more skeleton-like
I was hoping for an update to the tomb kings. Skeletons ... wearing high fantasy armor and high fantasy constructs. Instead we have Trap-Jaw and Man-E-Faces and grinning insects. None of those tick any of my boxes.
Wow, those are really bad designs imo. The whole of AOS is just starting to look like a WoW cartoon. No, actually I probably prefer WoW designs to these.
Imagine showing up to play with a well painted Island of Blood style high elf army or puffy sleeve Empire army and having your opponent plunk down these bone-clowns.
I think that is a good illustration of how the visual style has gone off the rails (for me).
They could have done something disturbing but instead we got the ol rubber bone clowns...
No hate for those that like em, and AOS is clearly not for me, but I'm not even interested in playing against the boneclowns.
So to be fair, bare skulls do actually grin, because that's the natural setting for them. But it looks odd on reanimated skeletons. It's rough; I don't like the look either, but I know it's the correct look. And that's not fair to GW-if they go with a natural look, it doesn't look right. And that's nature's fault, but not GW's. But yeah, not really a fan personally. Some parts are awesome, some meh. Thankfully I'm not a Death player who has to decide yay or nay on these.
Skulls grinning, and what those models are doing to me are two different things. They have the face pulled up to look like smiling / grinning, which is different from a bare skull. Those skulls look like they have flesh and that flesh is pulled up in a smile.
Something just happened to me now as I had a first good look at the battletome's cover. For the first moment I could have sworn I was looking at a Tyranid Warrior.
So yeah, I'm certainly not going to blame anyone for seeing too much of insects in their armor design. It makes me think GW should have tried for a different visual. At least a variation of the armor that doesn't come so close to Tyranid design.
Obviously 40k is a different setting and as such these guys are unique in AoS, but it does invite bad jokes and it's not something I think AoS needs any more of.
Also, the skeleton heads have skull noses on the cover art and people noses on the models. What's with that? I like the ones on the cover better.
auticus wrote: Skulls grinning, and what those models are doing to me are two different things. They have the face pulled up to look like smiling / grinning, which is different from a bare skull. Those skulls look like they have flesh and that flesh is pulled up in a smile.
Yeah. Skull grin is happy grin. What these guys have is a psycho grin.
For those super jazzed by the bone thing, check out Para Bellum's Conquest for another wargame's take.
The whole bone construct, masks and mention of bio-engineering instantly made me think of the Spires in Conquest. Except the Spires look really decent whereas these bone-things appear intentionally comical and cheap (in design, not price ). Could be a good replacement, though not sure due to scale.
VBS wrote: Could be a good replacement, though not sure due to scale.
I think Conquest is a larger scale than AOS? Which could work here, as the AOS Bonethings are larger than man-sized. I would 100% take Brute Drones in place of the four-armed multi-face duders we've just seen.
Also on the topic of GW carapace bois, I'm tempted to get the Mortarch just to rebase all the elements onto their own bases, there are a lot of cool af characters standing around there!
Conquest models are very similar to AOS in scale. They are a tad bigger. But not grossly so.
I am painting my spire forces now. And yeah the bone constructs of the spire look (yes yes IMO) 1000x better and less goofy / saturday morning cartoon.
JSG wrote: Wow, there's an awful lot of wrong opinions in this thread. Personally I love them. I especially like that Wayne Barlowe is an obvious influence.
I was thinking about Barlowe too! These models are absolutely amazing, but people here like conservative boring stuff.
If they had taken more cues from Beksinski (from whom Barlowe was biting heavily for his "Inferno" images) and made these sculpts more faceless and twisted in form, I would be way more on board with these designs, as I think it's a great concept overall.
I mean, people like what they like, but those Brutes are not great. Not great at all.
And I say that as someone who's generally able to see something good in almost any miniature.
To be honest, the Brutes don't look too good. Tough competition with the Bone-tyranid-guards.
However, the rest of the line looks very good to me (like the forge-grown drones or pheromancer), so I wouldn't just judge a faction based on a single unit. If people prefer cartoon bone-clowns, that is totally fine too.
I suppose the scale shouldn't be too bad considering the progressive upsizing of GW minis.
I mean, people like what they like, but those Brutes are not great. Not great at all.
And I say that as someone who's generally able to see something good in almost any miniature.
Seriously. The spire guys pictured above are horrible. It looks like something even early Mantic would have been embarrassed by.
If the Ossiarch guys are saturday morning cartoons, those spire things are just a kids random doodle on a napkin while he's waiting for his chicken tenders.
I've seen alot of great memes and jokes about the new reveal, but saying those spire things are in any way superior beats them all.
And I say that as an AoS fanboy who looked at this reveal and was extremely ambivalent(for most of it)
Typically fan boys of any game are going to seal-clap for their game's contents over other games irregardless. *shrug* I've seen dozens upon dozens of kings of war players rave about mantic models over GW models for years because they strongly hated GW and loved Kings of War.
The bone-clowns are to me the worst of the aos releases to date. I usually have liked the models for most of the releases that have come down the pipe since 2015. The only reason I bought the warcry stuff was for the models.
The conquest spire models certainly aren't the greatest things evar I'll definitely say that, but I prefer lumpen doodles over bone clowns that look like they crawled out of a He-Man comic with skeletor laughing behind them. Thats just my own preference though. I don't like cartoony comicesque models or games that feature that aesthetic. Same as why I never got into World of Warcraft for the same reasons.
auticus wrote: Typically fan boys of any game are going to seal-clap for their game's contents over other games irregardless. *shrug* I've seen dozens upon dozens of kings of war players rave about mantic models over GW models for years because they strongly hated GW and loved Kings of War.
The bone-clowns are to me the worst of the aos releases to date. I usually have liked the models for most of the releases that have come down the pipe since 2015. The only reason I bought the warcry stuff was for the models.
The conquest spire models certainly aren't the greatest things evar I'll definitely say that, but I prefer lumpen doodles over bone clowns that look like they crawled out of a He-Man comic with skeletor laughing behind them. Thats just my own preference though. I don't like cartoony comicesque models or games that feature that aesthetic. Same as why I never got into World of Warcraft for the same reasons.
I dunno, They're really doing it for me. I love the look of those models and the Mortarch is probably now my most favorite GW model of all time. I'm happy that these models do not look weak and flimsy compared to the other death armies. I always feel like I'm going to break the nighthaunt models because they're so thin.
But what I really like about these models is the strong Prometheus engineer vibe I am getting from there. I can definitely see the HR Giger influence that is in these models. I've been wanting to get into AoS for a long time because I like the setting a lot more than I do the 40K setting. I've picked up a couple of start collecting sets, but I've never gone further than that because the armies that were available weren't doing anything for me. These are the first models I've seen that really excite me and fit with what I like, so I'm excited!
auticus wrote: But what I really like about these models is the strong Prometheus engineer vibe I am getting from there. I can definitely see the HR Giger influence that is in these models. I've been wanting to get into AoS for a long time because I like the setting a lot more than I do the 40K setting. I've picked up a couple of start collecting sets, but I've never gone further than that because the armies that were available weren't doing anything for me. These are the first models I've seen that really excite me and fit with what I like, so I'm excited!
Yes! Thats what they were reminding me, I couldn't quite place it. Painted in a similar organic grey colour they could look much better, especially with some small alterations to the heads to make them less cartoony.
I think part of the problem with the new Death models and the Conquest line is that bone in miniature form relies heavily on context.
When we see a miniature skeleton, we recognize it's made out of bone because we have a general idea what human bones look like. A ribcage, a skull, a femur - all of those are easily identifiable as, well, bones.
The problems start when we're faced with a bone construct - something that is meant to be made of bone, but doesn't follow the silhouette of what we expect bones to look like. In that aspect, the GW line actually does at least some things right by incorporating shapes that call back to the skull, spinous process and ribcage into the design of the faction.
It's not perfect, but I feel it works better than the Conquest line, where what I presume was meant to be bone looks more like soft tissue tumours.
On the other hand, the addition of layered steel (I think?) plates to the Ossiarch plates was a mistake. I get that they felt a break up in material uniformity was necessary, but the way they did it looks weird. The plates are visually stuck somewhere between armour and being an integral part of the body itself. It's no wonder the Mortarch is the best looking model of the set - he doesn't have any of the plates breaking up his form.
I like em, both in concept and in miniatures. Four-armed guys are my least favorite as I just keep seeing tyranid warriors when I look at them, but those infantry are really cool.
On the other hand, the addition of layered steel (I think?) plates to the Ossiarch plates was a mistake. I get that they felt a break up in material uniformity was necessary, but the way they did it looks weird. The plates are visually stuck somewhere between armour and being an integral part of the body itself. It's no wonder the Mortarch is the best looking model of the set - he doesn't have any of the plates breaking up his form.
I don't think having the plates painted in a strongly contrasting colour is a good idea. I think these models work better if most of the model is of uniform colour.
Completely agree, the weapons need to be done in a similar way to the Marghast ones rather than steel, to limit the spot colours down rather than overload the models to much.
His Master's Voice wrote: I think simply ditching the extra arms and covering up the layered armour will be enough to deal with the 'looks like a Tyranid Warrior' syndrome.
I'm going to have a lot of fun with those.
Ah yes, this colour scheme is exactly what I was thinking. However, I like the extra arms, though they're attached weirdly.
That's a nicer take on it HMV, definitely. That said I'm still not sold on the head
Like NinthMusketeer, I also like our new bony overlords...
The catapult is especially an interesting model to just gawk at because of all the intricate little details, not been so enthused for a fantasy release since the last round of plastic Ogres!
Any bets that the scenery (walls and gate looking thing) in the background of the last tithe video will make an appearance as a fort type bundle for Christmas?
Who else has constructs that look better in a limited palette and faces that most people dislike? Right, SKORNE
No matter what photoshops I've seen so far, I still don't like the basic troopers and riders. Besides their weird heads, their legs look terrible. Sorta like the Revenant Sylvaneth, who look terrible below the knee. They should've gone the whole way and give them pointy crab legs or those stubby bug legs like the catapult sports. As awesome some of the characters are, a faction were the basic troops are so "meh" is a hard sell.
His Master's Voice wrote: I think simply ditching the extra arms and covering up the layered armour will be enough to deal with the 'looks like a Tyranid Warrior' syndrome.
Nice work HMV Particularly as IMOGW did a terrible job on those extra arms - I had the same idea about chopping them off but it didn't go far enough in my head to fix the issue. Your color choice is good too, I think not kneejerking to the Skeleton Bone Contrast is going to be good for these guys, but unfortunately not what people will likely be doing.
As for Conquest's Spires, I'm not here to defend them too hard, more to point out an existing similar line for people who like the Bonereaper concept but feel the Dub missed the mark. Para Bellum took an obviously different route - HMV breaks it down - that doesn't treat the bone as a carapace and more like a raw material for organic-ish armor, but then I think the PB dudes are flesh clones under there, not animated chitin ala Bonebros, nor did PB knock their bleary designs out of the park. Comparing the two as model lines is obviously fraught with peril because GeeDub has more resources than the gods and the best plastic kits in the wargaming market full stop, and PeeBee is obviously new to the scene. I do keep wanting to note that Conquest feels pretty Euro in design (read: Rackham), while whatever influence we all expected to see in the Bonereapers (Feudal Japan, Mongol, Something-Something Asia, Aztek in my case), it's still a Citadel line with the attendant foibles.
People who like the Bonereapers, rock on. It's an interesting take on Super Undead that should be pretty functional with a little hobby TLC and an interesting paint job, and kinda derpy and monotone otherwise. There is absolutely a breaking point for me - especially with Undead, of which there are so so so many lines of in the market - where I feel like you shouldn't have to do that much work on a mini you're paying boutique prices for.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Binabik15 wrote: Who else has constructs that look better in a limited palette and faces that most people dislike? Right, SKORNE
I kept trying not to bring Privateer Press into this for the shear mine of salt involved
This all just makes me look.much more.forward to whenever darkoath barbarians get done. GW has good design beats on Chaos mortals, and (for me) not much else. (I do give kudos for beefy blood bowl lizardmen. more.of them too, please!)
I’m not 100% sold on the infantry yet, but the characters, cavalry and Warmachine all look awesome. I really like the biomechanical, Geiger esque look, just not sold on the heads.
However, I think the Mortarch is one of the best models GW have done. Like Xerxes from 300 crossed with the Engineers from Alien/Prometheus, and the composition is really cool, like a painting or a sculpture. Really impressed with him.
ImAGeek wrote: I’m not 100% sold on the infantry yet, but the characters, cavalry and Warmachine all look awesome. I really like the biomechanical, Geiger esque look, just not sold on the heads.
On the video you can see some more skull-like heads on the basic infantry too. I think they'll look better with those.
However, I think the Mortarch is one of the best models GW have done. Like Xerxes from 300 crossed with the Engineers from Alien/Prometheus, and the composition is really cool, like a painting or a sculpture. Really impressed with him.
ImAGeek wrote: I’m not 100% sold on the infantry yet, but the characters, cavalry and Warmachine all look awesome. I really like the biomechanical, Geiger esque look, just not sold on the heads.
On the video you can see some more skull-like heads on the basic infantry too. I think they'll look better with those.
However, I think the Mortarch is one of the best models GW have done. Like Xerxes from 300 crossed with the Engineers from Alien/Prometheus, and the composition is really cool, like a painting or a sculpture. Really impressed with him.
Yep. It is truly amazing piece.
Yeah, hopefully there’s enough of those heads. If not they’re easy to fix anyway. Smoothing over the mouths could work, so they’re blank faces, or just swapping for skulls.
I thought about it and aside from the goofy aesthetics this just doesn't do it for me from a story perspective either:
You have a bunch of immortal human dudes fighting a bunch of immortal bone dudes, with all of them being perfect warriors with hundred of years of fighting experience and *yawn*
There's no stakes because the heroes can be reforged, the villains can be glued back together by Nagash or whatever and none of them have the least relatability.
Pretty cool skeleton constructs, I like the look of most of them, especially the Mortarch (with crew) and the big elite guys. However, the basic infantry guys... they don't really match the rest with those grins, it's a bit too much comic book villain for my taste.
I get the idea that it shows that they are constructs, that the bone is kinda magically sculpted like clay, but there should be another way to show that. Also, that blue armor is also very comic book - definitely would look better in a more muted color.
My son really likes them though (he's 10), and asked if we could buy some next time we go to the GW store, so...
As the day goes on and the more and more I look at the new skellies, the more I'm turned away from them. Not that I'm complaining as my wallet could really do with a break. Real shame though as I love Death and basically just collect that Grand Alliance.
It really was a dodged bullet me. I had been considering a Nagash, Morghast project so an elite construct army could have easily snared me. Outside of the Mortarch and Catapult just not a fan. Onwards to Hysh!
I think the Tyranid vibe turns me off a little bit, but I'm actually thinking the Mortarch might be the basis for my new C'Tan Shard of the Nightbringer conversion! I'm also thinking I could make some of those troops work as Flayed Ones. Anxious to see what else is part of this release.
These new models are PHENOMENAL. I am a huge fan of the style and art direction of the Masters of the Universe (1987) film, especially Frank Langella's portrayal of Skeletor.
Spoiler:
Katakros will make a fine GOD SKELETOR.
“Madness! I demand of destitution, shame, and loneliness of scorn. It is my destiny! It is my right! Nothing will deter me from it!”
I literally cannot wait to buy and paint the armies of Skeletor to conquer the Mortal Realms. And in glorious tradition of every name ending in '-OR" in Masters of the Universe, my armies shall be the BONEREAPORS... full of Stalkors and Deathridors. I'd also like to point out that the Stalkors are basically a MAN E FACES Skeletor construct.
While I don't outright hate these (there are elements, like the mortarch, which I like) it seems GW are attempting to create ever more unique and creative factions for AOS.
Partly, I think to separate it from a more standard setting and partly to stop knock-offs (however unsuccessful this might be).
Unfortunately, this release proves (to me) that unfettered creativity without any reigning in or apparent critique, means that you end up with a messy mix of different elements, some of which appear, ironically, less creative due to their obvious parallels to existing ideas and designs.
Of course this is just my opinion and I know it sounds like I'm passing it off as fact, but I just think it was a missed opportunity. You can have more conventional ideas with real-world counterparts, without it becoming wacky and over the top. A bit of well-placed subtlety can go a long way to adding depth to a setting and it's participants.
And I believe there is a place for that, even in a setting as off the wall as AOS.
I'll never complain about GW trying to create something new, even if they occasionally miss. This army isn't for me, but the last few pages have again proven that every new army is exactly what someone has been waiting for to jump into the game.
EnTyme wrote: I'll never complain about GW trying to create something new, even if they occasionally miss. This army isn't for me, but the last few pages have again proven that every new army is exactly what someone has been waiting for to jump into the game.
My only complaint is that this new Bones army is very likely going to utterly scupper my plans to build a Slaves to Darkness army to compliment my Slaanesh force. The other will be if GW decides to give the Bone army a discount Christmas Battleforce boxed set!
EnTyme wrote: I'll never complain about GW trying to create something new, even if they occasionally miss. This army isn't for me, but the last few pages have again proven that every new army is exactly what someone has been waiting for to jump into the game.
My only complaint is that this new Bones army is very likely going to utterly scupper my plans to build a Slaves to Darkness army to compliment my Slaanesh force. The other will be if GW decides to give the Bone army a discount Christmas Battleforce boxed set!
I'm a big fan of the Death Aesthetic, so I'll happy build this to compliment my Nighthaunt. Might finally convince me to pick up a few Morghasts ahead of time.
I doubt there will be a Christmas bundle, I don't think they do those for brand new armies? The only thing I can imagine is the rumored Ogres vs Bonereapers similar to what we have seen in Looncurse, carrion empire, etc.
Possibly some tidbits that aren’t widely known or might interest folks who were expecting Cities/Orruk news.
Warhammer Weekly Preview review:
Summary:
-Modular Rohan buildings(LotR scale , but could have a place in AoS due to modularity possibly)
-3 year plan of releases for Warcry
-not just Chaos monsters in the new supplement
-finally have a use for the Warqueen
-NOVA hotel is haunted!
-Mortarch has a unique Skarbrand style damage/attacks profile. If you attack him, scroll dude dies first, then bird guy, then standard bearer then Samurai Jack, then when they are dead, the Mortarch deigns to fight you and it gets bonkers.
-The Ossiarch Bonereaper range is bigger than what was shown.
-Not in preview article:
~Cities of Sigmar/Orruk tomes will not have faction specific Endless Spells or a terrain feature.
~Will have unique rules to counteract their absence.
~Both coming so soon that they didn’t bother with a preview at the seminar or in the article
At the end: expect an imminent announcement coming about how FW works, what it produces and how it will interact with GW going forward. Big changes. Attendees were told its a positive change and the seminar guys were excited about it, but who knows...
So checking out the video again, I think the pictures they posted with the typical GW hyper lighting really doesn’t help these models at all, and that’s coming from someone who already really likes them. In the video, with proper lighting, they look even better, and the grins look a lot more like proper skulls and a lot creepier.
Arbitrator wrote: The Mortarch looks good, his attendants are pretty decent.
The rank and file look awful. The three-headed guys look straight out of a World of Warcraft dungeon boss.
I wanted to like them, as I love the theme they're going for with what lore tidbits they've given us, but those models are a Big Yikes.
exactly my thought. And whats the deal with the stiffness of the knights???? Look like a 90's sculpt.
To be honest, the whole army look much better in the video than in the pics. Still, could have been such a cool release, but a few details completely ruins it
I think it's the bone noses that really ruin the skill faces that have them.
It works on the samurai, as his face looks more like a samurai helmet mask anyway, but on the rank and file.infantry with more.skeletal.faces they just look goofy.
Yeah, the one in that picture in the middle, with no nose and no smile, and a helmet, looks cool. The two with the grins and the noses just look silly to me.
I like them, but then when I look I don't see smiles beyond the sense that a generic skull is 'smiling' and I think that difference in perception makes a big difference in reaction.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I like them, but then when I look I don't see smiles beyond the sense that a generic skull is 'smiling' and I think that difference in perception makes a big difference in reaction.
There less smiling skull more The Joker tbh and it’s one of the many reasons they look a bit gak.
The idea of crafting constructs out of bone, then infusing the end result with the souls of the dead is quite good, and a very Nagash take on what Sigmar does with the Stormcast.
However the models look like they just stepped out of He-man. Imagine if instead of these Saturday morning cartoon aesthetic we had nightmarish abominations crafted from several skeletons smushed together?
Several rib cages put together several spines at the end each with a vicious looking skull? That sort of thing, really go with the theme.
A car cry from these. Luckily my interest in AoS is zero, so my wallet can breath a sigh of relief.
See I'd expect crude constructs of smashed together bones to be more of a Flesh Eaters approach. Nagash is scientific in his approach to most things and you can see that in the designs of the creatures and monsters he creates. There's a deahtly order to things. Vampires are quite the same - with the exception of ghouls and zombies, most of the created units are quite orderly and sensible in their construction.
Smashing stuff together is far more appropriate for some kind of twisted monstrosity that the crazed Flesh Eaters would unleash on to the battlefield. Of course in their warped mind it would likely be some kind of really smart steam tank when in actuality it would be a melded and melted mish mash of living tissue and screaming near-dead all bound together with twisted razor wire.
So is there some Saturday morning cartoon drawn by H. R. Giger that I am not aware of? Because that is the only way people constantly making that reference would make sense.
Overread wrote: See I'd expect crude constructs of smashed together bones to be more of a Flesh Eaters approach. Nagash is scientific in his approach to most things and you can see that in the designs of the creatures and monsters he creates. There's a deahtly order to things. Vampires are quite the same - with the exception of ghouls and zombies, most of the created units are quite orderly and sensible in their construction.
Smashing stuff together is far more appropriate for some kind of twisted monstrosity that the crazed Flesh Eaters would unleash on to the battlefield. Of course in their warped mind it would likely be some kind of really smart steam tank when in actuality it would be a melded and melted mish mash of living tissue and screaming near-dead all bound together with twisted razor wire.
Skeletons that have been smushed together don't all have to look messy. While being sensible in their construction they could still be horrific due to being unnatural.
Crimson wrote: So is there some Saturday morning cartoon drawn by H. R. Giger that I am not aware of? Because that is the only way people constantly making that reference would make sense.
Ha, as if those things are worthy of being influenced by Giger! Also not phalic enough.
I can see some Giger in the melted fused aspects of the design - but yeah - they'd have for be far more sensually designed to be by him.
Anyway if any army were to be done inspired purely by his art then it should be 4th generation tyranids (interestingly the first generation hormagaunts were very Giger's Alien inspired)
Overread wrote: See I'd expect crude constructs of smashed together bones to be more of a Flesh Eaters approach. Nagash is scientific in his approach to most things and you can see that in the designs of the creatures and monsters he creates. There's a deahtly order to things. Vampires are quite the same - with the exception of ghouls and zombies, most of the created units are quite orderly and sensible in their construction.
Smashing stuff together is far more appropriate for some kind of twisted monstrosity that the crazed Flesh Eaters would unleash on to the battlefield. Of course in their warped mind it would likely be some kind of really smart steam tank when in actuality it would be a melded and melted mish mash of living tissue and screaming near-dead all bound together with twisted razor wire.
Agreed and how cool does that Flesh-eaters tank sound
Overread wrote: See I'd expect crude constructs of smashed together bones to be more of a Flesh Eaters approach. Nagash is scientific in his approach to most things and you can see that in the designs of the creatures and monsters he creates. There's a deahtly order to things. Vampires are quite the same - with the exception of ghouls and zombies, most of the created units are quite orderly and sensible in their construction.
Smashing stuff together is far more appropriate for some kind of twisted monstrosity that the crazed Flesh Eaters would unleash on to the battlefield. Of course in their warped mind it would likely be some kind of really smart steam tank when in actuality it would be a melded and melted mish mash of living tissue and screaming near-dead all bound together with twisted razor wire.
Agreed and how cool does that Flesh-eaters tank sound
The tank spewing forth great clouds of thick sooty smog as it charges gloriously over the battlefield. It's main cannon firing out loud and proud to smash enemy lines, whilst up close its flamethrower spews for molten fire to burn through armour and flesh alike; mixed with the cries of the fallen as they are ploughed into and ground under the wheels. .
In reality the monstrosity lurches and lumbers toward the enemy lines. It's cobbled and fused together body profusely leaking blood and bodily fluids that are fired up in a united fountain of gore that rains down on all those around it. Feeding the hunger of the flesh-eaters and befouling the enemy. It's main cannon is a horror that fires out the still bloody skulls of the enemy; whilst its real power comes when it hits the enemy lines. A great maw formed of many mouths of the bodies fused tears into the enemy. Rending limb from body and devouring all - adding to the fountain that spews up. A few heads on top are turned to spew out hot fresh blood; boiled into a broiling sticky concoction within.
Such is the warped horrors of the Flesh Eaters. Heck they can have machines too, the whole of the Skaven VS Flesh Eaters campaign was focused around a people who had attained a high level of steam-punk era technology who fell to the curse. Their machines now choked with flesh and gore; used to grind bone and bodies for the never ending feasts instead of their original purposes.
Is that new bone castle terrain in the background of the video? It looks like it is set up similar to the Chaos Dreadhold. Nothing would make me happier than each alliance getting a castle...
Overread wrote: From my point of view skeltor is very 80s and Warhammer was born in that era - getting more 80s is getting right back to its creative roots!
It really isn't. Warhammer was drawing on a quite different set of tropes and cliches. It wasn't part of the 'cartoons to sell toys with' push of the 80s.
Zingraff wrote: The Mortarch with retinue looks great, the rest not so much.
What's with the dumb, fixed grins? Most of the models come across as goofy, when they were probably intended to look malevolent. I'm just not feeling it.
And since when did bone become a plastic material you could manipulate into any shape or form? These dudes aren't proper undead, they're just golems which happens to have been manufactured, somehow, from bones. And the bones have such unreasonable forms and sizes to make them indecipherable as bones. For the most part they mimic the exoskeletons of insects and crustaceans, but we all know these are made from chitin and not bones, which are mostly calcium.
Why bones in particular? Why not wood or clay or any other commonplace material? What about using the clay soil from a cemetery?
With the whole Asian thing, why couldn't they've made terracotta soldier type golems in stead of this, which in my opinion doesn't succeed in either being "undead" or "golems".
With the way they are designed if you just painted them a reddish terracotta colour they'd be terracotta warriors.
I think bones because its a DEATH faction and it sort of fits their theme more than clay.
And to follow on, bear in mind that could have been their idea when they sculpted them, but then the painters made a choice.
Listening to one of the guys who designed a few of the Warcry bands, he said in his head he had colours in mind that aren’t how they came out looking.
So this could have been a terracotta style army or anything..
Either way, I’ll wait for people to paint them up in variant ways, see how cool they look then..
Voss wrote: It really isn't. Warhammer was drawing on a quite different set of tropes and cliches. It wasn't part of the 'cartoons to sell toys with' push of the 80s.
Warhammer wasn't, but I've always said that Age of Sigmar is like Masters of the Universe. Just look at any He-Man paintings from the era:
Overread wrote: See I'd expect crude constructs of smashed together bones to be more of a Flesh Eaters approach. Nagash is scientific in his approach to most things and you can see that in the designs of the creatures and monsters he creates. There's a deahtly order to things. Vampires are quite the same - with the exception of ghouls and zombies, most of the created units are quite orderly and sensible in their construction.
Smashing stuff together is far more appropriate for some kind of twisted monstrosity that the crazed Flesh Eaters would unleash on to the battlefield. Of course in their warped mind it would likely be some kind of really smart steam tank when in actuality it would be a melded and melted mish mash of living tissue and screaming near-dead all bound together with twisted razor wire.
Agreed and how cool does that Flesh-eaters tank sound
at this point, I don't think GW would be able to sculpt such a mini to a decent standard. If they tried, it probably would look ridiculous and goofy. They are too much into the over the top sunday morning cartoon look. Hell, sometime this style is great (see the KO) but they absolutely fail when they try to do something creepy (as the Ossiarch bonereapers sadly proves)
The Ossiarch Bonereapers prove that GWs artistic vision and technical skill are better than ever, and that people who compare them to cartoons have no clue of what they are talking about.
Crimson wrote: The Ossiarch Bonereapers prove that GWs artistic vision and technical skill are better than ever, and that people who compare them to cartoons have no clue of what they are talking about.
Such a comment only prove that you're utterly ignorant when it comes to aesthetic and stylistic influence
Crimson wrote: The Ossiarch Bonereapers prove that GWs artistic vision and technical skill are better than ever, and that people who compare them to cartoons have no clue of what they are talking about.
This is sarcasm right... if not, are you honestly saying that models that have their inspiration from the stupid clown grin of the original Nagash are proof that GW's skill is better than ever?
Skeletons wearing bone could look great, these look idiotic.
When thinking of a bone construct, I imagine something more along the lines of the artistic endeavours found in e.g. the Sedleg Ossuary in Prague; a collection of bones arranged in a creative manner to make something different (here a chandelier, in a fantasy wargame some interesting death-dealing monstrous warrior creation).
By no longer having recognizable bones in there, you firstly lose the clear intention that these are indeed bones. Plenty of interesting things could be made out of regular bones, especially when incorporating those of ogres, dragons and other fantasy creatures. In addition, if the bone is just raw material that can be moulded into whatever shapes are desired, the ones we see don't seem very logical, retaining organic-looking ridges and points that have no use in their new function.
Besides, you'd think GW would be all over an excuse to incorporate 20 skulls into a single miniature.
I'm pretty sure there will be more color schemes in the battletome.
Otherwise, we have people saying "I like them" or "I don't like them", with subjective criterias in majority. So that's pretty much it, no need to take them as gospel.
If the Ossiarch's background is to be undead constructs made for war, I think I would like them to go the full concept's way rather than keeping humanoid shapes. For example, I believe their cavalry would look awesome as centaur-like knights - the rider's torso fused with their mount, everything lead by the souls infused inside. It wouldn't be just an undead centaur, but one clearly built out of bones from multiple beings. You could have a centaur with hooves, another with claw, or even gryph-beast talons, and so on. Or maybe something nightmarish like skeletons with upper torso as the limbs of the mount, like the Raging Heroes models in the following spoiler but made of only bones :
Spoiler:
Could have been something really disturbing, undead-ish and truly made for war. Guess that's why I'm most fond of the Stalkers and the catapult, that gives that vibe to me more than the others.
Crimson wrote: So is there some Saturday morning cartoon drawn by H. R. Giger that I am not aware of? Because that is the only way people constantly making that reference would make sense.
Rofl the only Giger in these is the bits of Nids they included.
Crimson wrote: So is there some Saturday morning cartoon drawn by H. R. Giger that I am not aware of? Because that is the only way people constantly making that reference would make sense.
Rofl the only Giger in these is the bits of Nids they included.
Giger made Aliens. One generation of Nids was inspired by Aliens. A different generation of Nids had goofy 4 armed gaks. Ossiarchs have goofy 4 armed gaks. There, connection in just 4 steps.
Crimson wrote: The Ossiarch Bonereapers prove that GWs artistic vision and technical skill are better than ever, and that people who compare them to cartoons have no clue of what they are talking about.
Such a comment only prove that you're utterly ignorant when it comes to aesthetic and stylistic influence
Stay chill peeps, everyone can have an opinion, no need to be rude to anyone about what they think. I really like them myself, I can’t wait to see the rest of the line and for their release.
I’m going to paint them all quite pale, like the leader, but do the segmented armour parts in glossy black and add some gold trims, leaving the cloth the aqua green. Think that’ll really push the Giger influences and shove back any part of it that resembles anything a little childish. That said I like that there’s a bit of fun cartooniness in there myself, it’s a game of toys after all.
EDIT: an example of this scheme is on these Necrons I painted. Pretty much just going to replicate this on these bros, as I don’t have the Necrons anymore.
Crimson wrote: The Ossiarch Bonereapers prove that GWs artistic vision and technical skill are better than ever, and that people who compare them to cartoons have no clue of what they are talking about.
Such a comment only prove that you're utterly ignorant when it comes to aesthetic and stylistic influence
Considering that you fail to see the obvious influences of Giger and Barlowe and instead get stuck to idiotic 'skull face = Skeletor' association it should be pretty obvious which of us is failing their art history check.
Crimson wrote: The Ossiarch Bonereapers prove that GWs artistic vision and technical skill are better than ever, and that people who compare them to cartoons have no clue of what they are talking about.
Such a comment only prove that you're utterly ignorant when it comes to aesthetic and stylistic influence
Considering that you fail to see the obvious influences of Giger and Barlowe and instead get stuck to idiotic 'skull face = Skeletor' association it should be pretty obvious which of us is failing their art history check.
Maybe you both should checkout Dakkadakka rule 1.
Also if you don’t like what the other one says, just ignore them.
I see influences from multiple areas. I’m not sold on them yet as usual, it usually takes someone besides the GW art directors take to make or break an army to me, so I’ll have to wait to see what happens to these guys when they get released.
I think that Boner Kings look like Mantic tried to make Rackham models. If we had seen them few years ago, we wouldn't have guessed they were GW models.
I don't love or hate the models, I just think that they are bit weird. However, I can't wait to see hobbyists' take on the models. I might even pick some of them myself if the prices aren't BSF level insulting. Contrast paints should work nicely on the models.
I am actually thinking of getting some Stalkers for my Legion of Night army (if possible) and I am toying doing them in old school Tomb King color scheme, yellowish bone and armor in bright turquoise.
Overread wrote: I wonder how good those shields would be on the Bonereaper troops. I forget that necrons have some cool stuff like that .
GW should hire you. You'll fit right in forgetting about Necrons and their cool stuff.
I'm thinking a lot will depend on the size of the Ossies. Necron shields are pretty tall. Was it here or in the Nova thread that someone said these guys are bigger than Sigmarines? That would certainly help if true. If they match normal skeleton warriors, the Necron shield just wouldn't work.
Crimson wrote: The Ossiarch Bonereapers prove that GWs artistic vision and technical skill are better than ever, and that people who compare them to cartoons have no clue of what they are talking about.
Such a comment only prove that you're utterly ignorant when it comes to aesthetic and stylistic influence
Considering that you fail to see the obvious influences of Giger and Barlowe and instead get stuck to idiotic 'skull face = Skeletor' association it should be pretty obvious which of us is failing their art history check.
It is a bit more than 'skull face = Skeletor'... They are made from bones yet are bulky, to the point of looking like the body obscenity that was common in He-Man.
Some of the models have several faces on one head, and an additional set of limbs that look to be connected in a very slap dash approach. Again, something that we saw in he-man.
The model are meant to be bone constructs, yet have noses, and have very few parts that look like bone, other than being painted as bone.
The grins are far more than that which is common on skulls, this fall's very much into the category of being cartoony.
I understand that you like them, and don't Iike that people think that they are some of the worst models that GW have made since the Razorgore. However that doesn't stop them looking like something out of a kids cartoon.
Giger's work is far more than just overlapping segments and organic/mechanical images. His work has a very deep context... of which there is none in these. Hence why it is erroneous to describe Giger as being an influence of these Saturday morning cartoon figures.
Crimson... it really isn't. Those three things are interesting and don't have a cartoony look that the GW models have.
I will admit that the 4 armed models may have a slight Hinduism influence, however it is simply lost under the noise of the model. The execution looks comical and laughable. As someone who is fascinated by the Hindu faith, I would love to see a model range that draws inspiration from that faith. These simply do not.
You guys don’t really need to convince each other. Just let each other have a differing opinion.
I can see some Giger vibes going on, and I can see some cartoony fun going on too. You can almost certainly shift either of these tones towards whichever one you fancy more with how you do the colour scheme.
Some people are going to like them, others are going to hate them, just depends on what you see in them.
So GW its too soon to talk about Cities or Orruks but you did talk about Monsters and Adventurers and low and behold its the first thing from the Nova we see being released
Bit of a marketing gaff there! That said I'm very pleased to see these things coming!
First up we've got GOTREK the model for AoS (complete with squished skaven base); along with the written version of Realmslayer, a full new novel (his first for AoS) and a new audio story read by Brian Gotrek Blessed. I believe and earlier article mentioned that the Realmslayer book was going to have some general extra content in it too so it could well be a very shiny week to pick up some great books and stories!
Then there's the new book for Warcry! But that's not all. Iron Golems, Untambed Beasts and the Furies and Raptors are coming in their own boxes next week. Plus they've repacked the chimera with rules for Warcry (repacked version likely won't appear till the pre-orders go up so the one currently for sale is likely still the regular version). It might be prudent to hold off beast purchases too as they might repack one or two others. There's also options for taking things like Terrorgasts and more into your forces! Sounding very exciting and going up against things like dragons in a warband on warband on dragon setting is JUST what I was hoping from the game!
The new Gotrek is a gorgeous model! The base is a bit busy, but aside from that it is great. GW's Dwarfs have come a long way from when the models didn't have knees.
How is the new warcry terrain for value? I want to start collecting some AOS terrain, and the warcry starter box terrain (and I guess this newly announced box) really caught my eye.
Tiberius501 wrote: You guys don’t really need to convince each other. Just let each other have a differing opinion.
I can see some Giger vibes going on, and I can see some cartoony fun going on too. You can almost certainly shift either of these tones towards whichever one you fancy more with how you do the colour scheme.
Some people are going to like them, others are going to hate them, just depends on what you see in them.
This. It seems to me like a lot of people here are blurring subjective and objective. It's ok to like them or hate them, seriously.
The new mortarch looks interesting, possibly a nice base model for a C'tan conversion. Really like the henchmen on his base and the diorama-style as well.
The rest of the releases range from passable to hideous.
balmong7 wrote: How is the new warcry terrain for value? I want to start collecting some AOS terrain, and the warcry starter box terrain (and I guess this newly announced box) really caught my eye.
It's a little hard to tell but the new set looks like the Azyrite Townscape plus one of the small sprues from the Timeworn Ruins. Probably not a savings on the actual terrain so much as getting the board and cards for "free" if you play Warcry as well.
BertBert wrote: The new mortarch looks interesting, possibly a nice base model for a C'tan conversion. Really like the henchmen on his base and the diorama-style as well.
The rest of the releases range from passable to hideous.
Ooh C’tan conversion. Yes. That could be a good shout.
Hopefully I can sell on all the other guys who individually want them..
Base, just as scenery..
Overread wrote: So GW its too soon to talk about Cities or Orruks but you did talk about Monsters and Adventurers and low and behold its the first thing from the Nova we see being released
Bit of a marketing gaff there! That said I'm very pleased to see these things coming!
First up we've got GOTREK the model for AoS (complete with squished skaven base); along with the written version of Realmslayer, a full new novel (his first for AoS) and a new audio story read by Brian Gotrek Blessed. I believe and earlier article mentioned that the Realmslayer book was going to have some general extra content in it too so it could well be a very shiny week to pick up some great books and stories!
Then there's the new book for Warcry! But that's not all. Iron Golems, Untambed Beasts and the Furies and Raptors are coming in their own boxes next week. Plus they've repacked the chimera with rules for Warcry (repacked version likely won't appear till the pre-orders go up so the one currently for sale is likely still the regular version). It might be prudent to hold off beast purchases too as they might repack one or two others. There's also options for taking things like Terrorgasts and more into your forces! Sounding very exciting and going up against things like dragons in a warband on warband on dragon setting is JUST what I was hoping from the game!
Yeah, I'm a bit suprised as well. I fully expected Cities and Warclans to be this week.
Kanluwen wrote: Worth mentioning that the bit about Cities/Orruks wasn't actually from GW but was purportedly from someone talking to the staffers "after".
That doesn't mean they know squat? If the "staff" was people hired to move displays or something equally thrilling, the chance of them knowing what the design/marketing dept cooked up is pretty slim.
Kanluwen wrote: Worth mentioning that the bit about Cities/Orruks wasn't actually from GW but was purportedly from someone talking to the staffers "after".
But the staffers are GW?
Meant more that it's possible that the claims were exaggerated.
When I saw the new undead, actually thought of Sideshow Collectible's Court of the Dead line. Namely Xiall, the Osteomancer. Complete with the weird carapace bone body, bone crafting, and nose.
stonehorse wrote: The new Gotrek is a gorgeous model! The base is a bit busy, but aside from that it is great. GW's Dwarfs have come a long way from when the models didn't have knees.
A big block of Shadspire warbands just went out of sale on the GW stores around the world
This suggests taht he new Underworlds release is imminent, however it also seems odd that they've remove the older warbands since surely part of the attraction of the game was to get the warband for your force.
That or GW is going to release a combined card pack for all those forces; putting it in one purchase as the models themselves are still on sale. That would atl east get around the "gotta buy em-all" issue since GW chose to put different universal cards into each unit pack.
stonehorse wrote: The new Gotrek is a gorgeous model! The base is a bit busy, but aside from that it is great. GW's Dwarfs have come a long way from when the models didn't have knees.
Just disapointed no Maleneth ....
Agreed, but then I think Maleneth has a long way to go to worm her way into anywhere near the same popularity as Gotrek. Give it a few more books and I'm sure we'll see a model of her too!
This suggests taht he new Underworlds release is imminent, however it also seems odd that they've remove the older warbands since surely part of the attraction of the game was to get the warband for your force.
September 21st.
I have said this repeatedly. Go look on the "Coming Soon" page for Black Library. We literally have a preorder date for the novel, which will come out with the box.
I'm surprised that they pulled the sets but given how many of those cards might be on the ban/restricted list? It makes sense.
Overread wrote: A big block of Shadspire warbands just went out of sale on the GW stores around the world
Is there a list?
Remember that GW calls the range "Warhammer Underworlds".
It's literally just the Shadespire Warbands that came out on their own.
The Warhammer Underworlds versions of the Sepulchral Guard, Farstriders, Magore's Fiends, Ironskull's Boyz, Spiteclaw Swarm, and The Chosen Axes are what went to "No Longer Available". The other versions(that didn't include the cards) are still available.
Garrek's Reavers and Steelheart's Champions(the two starter set warbands from Shadespire's season) are still in, since they came out solo with Nightvault.
My guess is that Shadespire's general card pool will be depreciated. Rotation is common in card games to keep the card pool manageable, ever changing, and easier for beginners to jump in. Plus, there's too many cards to rerelease in a different format.
I would've thought that the warbands themselves would remain viable, but you still need the cards that come in the packs they no longer sell. If they just rereleased the warband-specific cards, that's something like 30 cards each or so, and they could repackage those... but I don't think they'll bother.
Sqorgar wrote: My guess is that Shadespire's general card pool will be depreciated. Rotation is common in card games to keep the card pool manageable, ever changing, and easier for beginners to jump in. Plus, there's too many cards to rerelease in a different format.
I would've thought that the warbands themselves would remain viable, but you still need the cards that come in the packs they no longer sell. If they just rereleased the warband-specific cards, that's something like 30 cards each or so, and they could repackage those... but I don't think they'll bother.
I don't know. I could see repackaged warbands for them with different cards. Since there are probably some new mechanics in Beastgrave, like how nightvault added magic.
Sqorgar wrote: My guess is that Shadespire's general card pool will be depreciated. Rotation is common in card games to keep the card pool manageable, ever changing, and easier for beginners to jump in. Plus, there's too many cards to rerelease in a different format.
I would've thought that the warbands themselves would remain viable, but you still need the cards that come in the packs they no longer sell. If they just rereleased the warband-specific cards, that's something like 30 cards each or so, and they could repackage those... but I don't think they'll bother.
It's also possible that they're setting things up to redo the sets with cards from Nightvault and Shadespire to make things a bit more newcomer friendly.
I don't know. I could see repackaged warbands for them with different cards. Since there are probably some new mechanics in Beastgrave, like how nightvault added magic.
From what's been hinted at, we're not supposed to see anything as big as the addition of magic.
As a note, the "Leaders" card pack(which was for Shadespire not Nightvault) is now gone too. It's very likely that they're repackaging the sets to include the Leader cards as well.
I do hope that it's all new cards and better tested so we don't have to look up FAQs for whats restricted and whats banned. A completely new starting point would be great as well. I started getting the bands after shadespire had been out for a while and finally got all of them.
With all the figs available separately, I could see them making new cards for the available bands and giving some of the season 1 warband figures magic.
Sqorgar wrote: My guess is that Shadespire's general card pool will be depreciated. Rotation is common in card games to keep the card pool manageable, ever changing, and easier for beginners to jump in. Plus, there's too many cards to rerelease in a different format.
I would've thought that the warbands themselves would remain viable, but you still need the cards that come in the packs they no longer sell. If they just rereleased the warband-specific cards, that's something like 30 cards each or so, and they could repackage those... but I don't think they'll bother.
It's also possible that they're setting things up to redo the sets with cards from Nightvault and Shadespire to make things a bit more newcomer friendly.
I don't know. I could see repackaged warbands for them with different cards. Since there are probably some new mechanics in Beastgrave, like how nightvault added magic.
From what's been hinted at, we're not supposed to see anything as big as the addition of magic.
As a note, the "Leaders" card pack(which was for Shadespire not Nightvault) is now gone too. It's very likely that they're repackaging the sets to include the Leader cards as well.
Makes sense, as they want it to be easy entry to the hobby anyway don’t they.
So that would help, condense cards a bit etc..
I lost the skull hat for my beasthandler gal when I bumped into my hobby desk at night...sigh*. maybe I'll be able to get her from ebay for a decent price.
*And to think that I wanted to mould it to use the copies as Nostramon lion skulls on my Night Lords, doubly painful.
I think GW are adding in rotation to Warhammer Underworlds. The Warbands released in Shadespire along with their cards, and boards will be rotated out. They are no all showing no longer available on the GW site. How this effects tournament play is going to be interesting to see, I imagine that GW will not allow them at organised events, so only Warbands, cards and boards released during Nightvault and Beastgrave will be allowed, then when season 4 comes out, only Beastgrave and season 4 will be allowed.
From a business sense it makes sense, for to make the new products attractive so people don't just stick to their old collection. From a gamers point of view it is slightly annoying, luckily for me I have all the Warhammer Underworlds stuff, but it sure would have been nice for GW to announce this.
stonehorse wrote: I think GW are adding in rotation to Warhammer Underworlds. The Warbands released in Shadespire along with their cards, and boards will be rotated out. They are no all showing no longer available on the GW site. How this effects tournament play is going to be interesting to see, I imagine that GW will not allow them at organised events, so only Warbands, cards and boards released during Nightvault and Beastgrave will be allowed, then when season 4 comes out, only Beastgrave and season 4 will be allowed.
From a business sense it makes sense, for to make the new products attractive so people don't just stick to their old collection. From a gamers point of view it is slightly annoying, luckily for me I have all the Warhammer Underworlds stuff, but it sure would have been nice for GW to announce this.
I think you posted in the wrong thread.
But like what has been stated already in the other thread, the models will be available still in the easy to build AOS kits. Season 3 Beastgrave looks like a new starting point, so it makes sense if they are starting from scratch that they will have all new cards for warbands.
More like several monsters, since he can more than go toe-to-toe with anything in the game - including, apparently, all 4 Greater Daemons AT THE SAME TIME.
Voss wrote: Really, why is this kind of piece in the game?
Rule wise it's ridiculous, and fluff wise he's entirely out of place.
How so? He appears in several major battles through the novels in the Old World and he'll likely appear in more than one in the Realms once he gets going!
As for the rules he's got a high chance of avoiding damage and a high chance of dealing out a lot of damage, but at the same time he's got 4 inches of movement and he cannot be "placed" once he's on the table. So that shuts down most teleporting and transporting options. Plus if your opponent takes specific spells and boosters that means even more than 500 points going into a single 40mm base model. That's a huge amount on a single spear tip that you can avoid, deflect, distract or otherwise ignore if you play right.
Sure if you charge your big Keeper of Secrets right at him it will die; same as if you charge anything big and scary at him - that's basically his ideal target.
IMO fluffwise a dwarf turned into an avatar of his god(or whatever Gotrek became during the endtimes) is more in line with the setting than many other remnants of warhammer carried into AOS
Somewhere in GW the Warhammer Community team is frantically putting together an article or video
So the Terrain piece is the Bone-Tithe Nexus and not a Bone Fortress as some have speculated not that I thought it would be as the hobby team create stuff for the pictures that wont be released.
Not a fan of the tiny legs on the Harvester which looks like the Bonereaper version of the Corpse Cart. The alternate build for the Stalkers is much better than the preview ones.
DaveC wrote: Somewhere in GW the Warhammer Community team is frantically putting together an article or video
So the Terrain piece is the Bone-Tithe Nexus and not a Bone Fortress as some have speculated not that I thought it would be as the hobby team create stuff for the pictures that wont be released.
Not a fan of the tiny legs on the Harvester which looks like the Bonereaper version of the Corpse Cart. The alternate build for the Stalkers is much better than the preview ones.
At the very least, there are multiple head options which should make people very happy.
I'm alright with the boneharvester legs.
Now, I am just looking forward to the rules leaking.
I think the harvesting model will look better in 3D/in person - I tihnk the photos (and the leaked ones at that) don't do it justice.
And yeah my wallet isn't ready for this either - a 2 week release and a lot of big monsters in that army!
Interesting we don't see alternate builds for the monster nor the catapult in there, might be GW is shifted away from duel kits once more - at least for big things.
That said we only have a few pages on the leaks so there could be a lot more.
I also really like the look of that unit that is putting a bone reaper back together - on table rebuilding!
Sasori wrote: Looks like Arkhan is a part of the battletome as well, that's pretty cool.
Is he?
I didn’t see that?
On the back page he's in the top left corner - or at least one of the bone horse mortarchs are. I really hope so because I've really liked those models for a long time and this would be the perfect excuse to add them!
There's also a ghost that is shown in one of the close up photos in the leaked photos; this could be one of the ghosts off the base of the mortarch horse.
Sasori wrote: Looks like Arkhan is a part of the battletome as well, that's pretty cool.
Is he?
I didn’t see that?
On the back page he's in the top left corner - or at least one of the bone horse mortarchs are. I really hope so because I've really liked those models for a long time and this would be the perfect excuse to add them!
There's also a ghost that is shown in one of the close up photos in the leaked photos; this could be one of the ghosts off the base of the mortarch horse.
You can see the name. You just have to bent neck a bit.
Under the Description (sorry, DESCRIPCIÓN) heading, the first line starts “Arkhan the Black es…”
Odd to see the English there but I guess they don’t translate all unit names?
The Bone Harvester is the first model of this range I'm not instantly sold on. Looks very top heavy in almost Warmahordes way. Also quite skaveny, though that's not really a huge problem.
I like the small legs construct with huge pile of ded stuff. Still don't like the grunts, so I might get a few monsters for...I dunno, mobile desecration shrine for Word Bearers or something.
Crimson wrote: The Bone Harvester is the first model of this range I'm not instantly sold on. Looks very top heavy in almost Warmahordes way. Also quite skaveny, though that's not really a huge problem.
Aye but I think the photos don't do it justice. Plus the tail makes a lot of difference to its overall bulk and support underneath.
I think it will likely look a lot better once we see the full form clearly and can see a view all around it.
I like the small legs construct with huge pile of ded stuff. Still don't like the grunts, so I might get a few monsters for...I dunno, mobile desecration shrine for Word Bearers or something. I always like big things collecting/adorning themself with corpses.
GW said at the Nova in talks with gamers that Morghasts would feature and we've seen Arkhan the Black in the book itself. Thus far that's all we know for certain. We've no idea if GW will release new Morghasts or if they will change them from their current form in some way (like there's technically two forms of zombiedragon with the regular and the "royal" versions). We also don't know if any of the other Mortarchs will appear in the army either, it could just be Arkhan who appears.
I can actually see a time where the Legions of Nagash could fragment into nothing or evolve into just the Grand Army Death. Right now Flesh Eaters, Nighthaunt and soon Bonereapers will all have taken a chunk out of the Legion. Give GW time and I'm sure we'll see them do a new vampire themed release (new zombies!) which will likely be a nice update to the old vampire models as well as the overall theme of blood drinkers (esp since at present the most bloody faction are Daughters of Khaine)
GW said at the Nova in talks with gamers that Morghasts would feature and we've seen Arkhan the Black in the book itself. Thus far that's all we know for certain. We've no idea if GW will release new Morghasts or if they will change them from their current form in some way (like there's technically two forms of zombiedragon with the regular and the "royal" versions). We also don't know if any of the other Mortarchs will appear in the army either, it could just be Arkhan who appears.
I can actually see a time where the Legions of Nagash could fragment into nothing or evolve into just the Grand Army Death. Right now Flesh Eaters, Nighthaunt and soon Bonereapers will all have taken a chunk out of the Legion. Give GW time and I'm sure we'll see them do a new vampire themed release (new zombies!) which will likely be a nice update to the old vampire models as well as the overall theme of blood drinkers (esp since at present the most bloody faction are Daughters of Khaine)
Vampires do need some non lord vampire models besides Blood Knights......
The new Mortarch and legion does seem to fit more Arkhan's theme - hopefully we will get soem fluff how the older Mortarchs are reacting to the two new ones.
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Crimson wrote: The Bone Harvester is the first model of this range I'm not instantly sold on. Looks very top heavy in almost Warmahordes way. Also quite skaveny, though that's not really a huge problem.
So am I seeing correctly those 4 armed construct guys have a shield option? Is that what the decked out guy on the bottom left of that color scheme page is?
Liking the more heavily armored version if that's what he is, as opposed to the man-e-faces version.
Interesting snippet from the article; "before these guys arrive, both Order and Destruction aficionados will have a chance to bolster their defences with new battletomes coming in the next few weeks. "
The Harvester's legs are longer then it first appears. But the half skeleton cod piece does mask its upper legs from some photo angles.
Those wall sections are way too uniform to be scratch builds, even for the GW studio. If they are not in this book, then there is probably another stand alone expansion like Forbidden power on its way.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Interesting snippet from the article; "before these guys arrive, both Order and Destruction aficionados will have a chance to bolster their defences with new battletomes coming in the next few weeks. "
Ah man, I really liked these dudes before but jeez, all these new models are even cooler! The alternate build for the 4 limbed guys having helmets instead of the 4 heads and a shield and halberd loadlout looks super cool. And that harvester looks super boss. The other heroes too, the dude on the thrown! My poor wallet...
Mr_Rose wrote: Under the Description (sorry, DESCRIPCIÓN) heading, the first line starts “Arkhan the Black es…”
Odd to see the English there but I guess they don’t translate all unit names?
That doesn’t surprise me, in that it’s a character name as opposed to just a unit of things etc (though yeah they could have easily changed the ‘black’ part if nothing else).
I’ve seen it in a lot of things.
Morghasts certainly pads the book with choice too..
A freaking walking monster of little arms everywhere (there's more on the back). Picking the bones clean and building new warriors!
Then there's that dracoline style mount on the left of that photo with the 3 tails - pure awesome!
Also seeing more of that terrain wall I'm weakening my "do not get hopes up" resolve to the view that it could well be an upcoming terrain pack.
Overall I'm very hyped for this release now! Even more so than at the start of the day! GAH its a whole month until October and could be that GW doesn't release them till the end of that month so even longer to wait!
Wow, each new thing looks dumber than the last. Those halberd guys with the pelvis helmets just look dumb. What benefit would there be to holding the halberd in two hands on the same side? You'd have to let go with one of them in order to swing it anyway. Is that so their arms don't get as tired from carrying them while they're marching? Well, I'm glad I won't be tempted by this army.
The spear tips to the halberds actually makes twin arms make a bit more sense; giving them extra firmness and support at the rear of the weapon arm so that they can likely charge or receive a charge far more effectively. I'd agree that once in actual combat chances are one arm has to let go during the fight to get the full range of motions.
That said perhaps we aren't thinking fantasy enough. Not only does two main arms mean that it can swap between them, it might grip in the main upper arm, but then let go with that arm and let the lower carry a swing or deflect; whilst the other arm grasps at the opponent or blocks a further attack. Then perhaps the lower arm can dislocate itself from the socket. So instead of letting go it just releases that part of itself to let the upper arm carry the motions.
, but it's there. The artists definitely were inspired by many different things from ancient culture, and people shouldn't be corrected for seeing that. Maybe they can't articulate specific things to what looks like what real life example, probably because the artists did a good job of blending elements together. I think the days of armies being a full take of ancient cultures are over (or 'LEGENDS', as they seem to want to call it...). Which doesn't bode well for them making more Babylonian themed chaos dwarfs. 
Particularly as 
