GunSmith wrote: Since it seems to be unfunded, and because i'm clearly not the only one to have access to it, i think i can give away my "source" for the Gravopter Duneskimmer:
It's from the Starn Disciple booklet ( from the Kill Team GSC boxset with the Kelermorph, so a lot of people will be able to confirm this): There is a fluff part which describe one of Starn act, in which he attack a magna-train (Cow-boy style) using some of these Gravopter Duneskimmers to do so.
It might seems fishy, but, as some may have noticed, i'm not an english speaker :p and in our books, units name are never traduced, and this on was to. Duneskimmer in english. So this, plus the fact that the vehicle is used by a Genestealer character can lead us to think we will have a new vehicle. But on the other and, the name reminds me more of AdMech. So i kinda like the idea that this thing could be used for both armies, like the tanks from the AM ^^
Soo this source means, it was in mentioned only fluff wise, but the model doesn´t exist?
GunSmith wrote: Since it seems to be unfunded, and because i'm clearly not the only one to have access to it, i think i can give away my "source" for the Gravopter Duneskimmer:
It's from the Starn Disciple booklet ( from the Kill Team GSC boxset with the Kelermorph, so a lot of people will be able to confirm this): There is a fluff part which describe one of Starn act, in which he attack a magna-train (Cow-boy style) using some of these Gravopter Duneskimmers to do so.
It might seems fishy, but, as some may have noticed, i'm not an english speaker :p and in our books, units name are never traduced, and this on was to. Duneskimmer in english. So this, plus the fact that the vehicle is used by a Genestealer character can lead us to think we will have a new vehicle. But on the other and, the name reminds me more of AdMech. So i kinda like the idea that this thing could be used for both armies, like the tanks from the AM ^^
Soo this source means, it was in mentioned only fluff wise, but the model doesn´t exist?
I understand where He is coming from. But in the german Booklet that was in the Dark Imperium box, several other nurgle sorcerers were mentioned. Like the Maggotmancer. Their names were in english, contrary to the german text. But no models have been released for them so far, so I would not get my hopes up in this case either.
Red Corsair wrote: This army is shaping up to be pretty nasty. Creep is real boys. I kind of am getting a sinking feeling. This army is looking too good.
I think it's early. What I find to be the most pressing question is:
1) Will Brood Brothers/Genestealer Units like the patriarch and purestrains get the sub-faction bonuses? Will vehicles? I assume vehicles will because of the Rusted Claw or whatever seeming like a vehicle-themed subfaction, but I'm not certain due to interactions like the genestealers getting 4++.
2) What brood brothers will be available? It kind of sounds like the current system of being able to ally in AM freely is going away, replaced instead with more "brood brothers' folded into the main codex. What abilities will Brood Brothers have? Will the GEQ infantry squads/tanks/hwts mentioned have cult ambush? Will we get a leman russ with bonus armor save or with fall back and shoot?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Honestly, the strongest "creep" I see so far in this codex is the ability to get better access to busted Guard units that were in the third codex released in the game... :p
Disagree, you have to be blind not to see the writing already.
7pmm acolytes that pop up at will with a 7" charge lol
Neophytes that can receive a 3+ save in cover and shoot at BS 3+ for 5ppm
The bikes are the most outragious though, -1 to hit, t4 2w with no doubt a 4+ save, so a 3+ with rusted claw for only 10ppm
All the leaked characters are very good.
We haven't even seen the strats or relic yet!
I already see nasty combos. The alphus buffs anything near her, not the unit she spots like it was originally leaked (or I read it) thats insane. She can buff leman russ battle tanks and mortars.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Honestly as an Iron Hands player /fan I stopped reading the leaks after The Bladed Cog.
All the power armor traits are out of date by a mile at this point, oh and btw still only effect infantry and dreads lmao.
Red Corsair wrote: Disagree, you have to be blind not to see the writing already.
7pmm acolytes that pop up at will with a 7" charge lol
Neophytes that can receive a 3+ save in cover and shoot at BS 3+ for 5ppm
The bikes are the most outragious though, -1 to hit, t4 2w with no doubt a 4+ save, so a 3+ with rusted claw for only 10ppm
All the leaked characters are very good.
We haven't even seen the strats or relic yet!
I already see nasty combos. The alphus buffs anything near her, not the unit she spots like it was originally leaked (or I read it) thats insane. She can buff leman russ battle tanks and mortars.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Honestly as an Iron Hands player /fan I stopped reading the leaks after The Bladed Cog.
All the power armor traits are out of date by a mile at this point, oh and btw still only effect infantry and dreads lmao.
Wow, a 5ppm unit with a 3+ save in cover? So they're like those super-OP guard veterans we've been seeing dominating top tables, except they get +1 to their save instead of FRFSRF...but who uses that amirite?
The bikers have "no doubt" a 4+ save? Like what other unit of bikers in the game that gets a better armor save than the model riding it? I can think of one - Windriders. Every other biker unit seems to have the same armor save as the model riding it. Youre freaking out about a bike unit that is armed with autoguns and chainswords on a guard statline, with no weapons on the bike itself.
I get that jumping into your chicken little impersonation whenever we get the first rules details for an army is kind of your thing, but it never stops being silly, Corsair. Ork stormboyz are what, 8ppm? they deep strike and charge more reliably than 7" charging neophytes with the Evil Sunz kultur, do more damage, and they haven't been taking the game by storm.
the_scotsman wrote:-Get salty that GW only ever talks about or draws things that have models in the game.
-Get salty that GW mentions or draws something then doesn't come out with a model for it.
Pick one, boys.
I don't get comments like this. This is what the second time I read this on Dakka now. Not everyone thinks the same way. Not everyone is saying the same thing over and over again. So if one person is complaining about no minis when GW mentions or draws something doesn't mean someone else can't complain that that what is drawn has minis. That is like saying if one person loves eating sardines, out of a can in public, then everyone needs to think like that as well.
At least they're "only" 25$ - they're practically showing restraint compared to the gouging they gave the poor marine boys for their primaris marine cahracters.
As a newly minted SW player I would kill for this psychic power: Mass Hypnosis - CV7 - Visible enemy unit within 18" can't fire overwatch, fights last in fight phase even if it charged and -1 to hit until your next psychic phase. .
Cool models, cool rules, varied tool box, can soup, good strats, good pyschic powers and good traits. Not saying these guys are Yanarri but if I played guard or nids I would be really excited about starting a new GSC army. For the GSC players that have suffered through the long wait for this dex I think the wait may have been worth it.
Red Corsair wrote: Disagree, you have to be blind not to see the writing already.
7pmm acolytes that pop up at will with a 7" charge lol
Neophytes that can receive a 3+ save in cover and shoot at BS 3+ for 5ppm
The bikes are the most outragious though, -1 to hit, t4 2w with no doubt a 4+ save, so a 3+ with rusted claw for only 10ppm
All the leaked characters are very good.
We haven't even seen the strats or relic yet!
I already see nasty combos. The alphus buffs anything near her, not the unit she spots like it was originally leaked (or I read it) thats insane. She can buff leman russ battle tanks and mortars.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Honestly as an Iron Hands player /fan I stopped reading the leaks after The Bladed Cog.
All the power armor traits are out of date by a mile at this point, oh and btw still only effect infantry and dreads lmao.
Wow, a 5ppm unit with a 3+ save in cover? So they're like those super-OP guard veterans we've been seeing dominating top tables, except they get +1 to their save instead of FRFSRF...but who uses that amirite?
The bikers have "no doubt" a 4+ save? Like what other unit of bikers in the game that gets a better armor save than the model riding it? I can think of one - Windriders. Every other biker unit seems to have the same armor save as the model riding it. Youre freaking out about a bike unit that is armed with autoguns and chainswords on a guard statline, with no weapons on the bike itself.
I get that jumping into your chicken little impersonation whenever we get the first rules details for an army is kind of your thing, but it never stops being silly, Corsair. Ork stormboyz are what, 8ppm? they deep strike and charge more reliably than 7" charging neophytes with the Evil Sunz kultur, do more damage, and they haven't been taking the game by storm.
Wait what? When am I a chicken little? I think you might ease of the personal vendetta lol.
the_scotsman wrote: At least they're "only" 25$ - they're practically showing restraint compared to the gouging they gave the poor marine boys for their primaris marine cahracters.
Gotta pay extra for that 32mm base I guess.
In the spirit of keeping my army as old-school as possible, I think I can convert a Clamavus out of the third Magus from the left (one with microphone), and a Nexos out of the second Magus from the left.
Ca$h $aving$!
Spoiler:
Regarding power level, it's important to note that we're in the Goldilocks phase of this codex release. Which is the time when we start hearing about the cool stuff without more context about how it all fits together. Personally, what I see is GW making more playstyles possible beyond leaning hard on Cult Ambush table results.
the_scotsman wrote:-Get salty that GW only ever talks about or draws things that have models in the game.
-Get salty that GW mentions or draws something then doesn't come out with a model for it.
Pick one, boys.
I don't get comments like this. This is what the second time I read this on Dakka now. Not everyone thinks the same way. Not everyone is saying the same thing over and over again. So if one person is complaining about no minis when GW mentions or draws something doesn't mean someone else can't complain that that what is drawn has minis. That is like saying if one person loves eating sardines, out of a can in public, then everyone needs to think like that as well.
He seems to be in a sour mood lol
Look at how he went off on me for feths sake.
@scotsman Opinions vary my man, try not making things personal and just enjoy the discourse like a grown up.
Looks like certain army configurations can really mess with enemies relying heavily on character synergy.
Jackal Alphus, pair of Sanctus and a Kelermorph could force them to keep their heads down and out of sight. For nonsense like a Smash Captain, that’s quite a nice counter - if of course one works for it.
It's almost like GW went in with the "how can we break every fundamental rule of balance that we've spent the last two years building" mindset with this codex.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Oh look, an HQ using a Heavy rifle better than Marine characters. Ya know, while riding a bike too.
Truthfully, I feel like the same could be said for basically everything here.
Oh look, an HQ doing logistics better than Guard/AdMech characters->Nexos, Primus, Clamavus trio
Etc Etc Etc
I'm hoping this is a sign of a shift in design mentality and the last vestiges of the 'old' way of doing things being taken out to pasture.
Yea it's really refreshing that they didn't default to reroll 1 bubbles. That was getting to be such a lazy and tiresome trick.
It would be nice to see marines get some better tricks when they get a new book. Like a captain providing fall back and shoot Etc Etc instead rerolls. Maybe make captains from other companies do different tricks.
All in all I am excited and happy, but this does look like some serious creep. Bookmark me and call me out later if I am wrong, I hope I am, but when an armies crap doctrines are Catachan +1 and Fall back and fire +1 thats crazy.
There are 12 characters which is crazy, so many buffs. Calling them a guard vet equivalent doesn't work. They get to deny spells, add 1 to charges and advances, get +1 to hit in assault, +1 to hit in shooting, redeploy, reroll morale, or fearless, and reroll 1's in shooting. All that before traits or psychic powers or considering they can deepstrike or counter deploy with the blips. I don't think there is another army that comes even close to that many auras.
I am going to need a huge bag of widgets to remember all those aura buffs. Good opportunity for someone with a lazer cutter out there.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Looks like certain army configurations can really mess with enemies relying heavily on character synergy.
Jackal Alphus, pair of Sanctus and a Kelermorph could force them to keep their heads down and out of sight. For nonsense like a Smash Captain, that’s quite a nice counter - if of course one works for it.
I am intrigued.
Your right, plus you can Clamavus him back 12" although I am not sure what he would smash that would pay for his cost.
The clamavus is going to be a requirement for the GSC mirror match lol. First two turns will revolve around each side sniping the guy and hoping he fails more bodyguard checks
Loss of the old brood brothers could be somewhat concerning for those who have added now illegal units to their collections in the year and a half that was a section of the index....
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Oh look, an HQ using a Heavy rifle better than Marine characters. Ya know, while riding a bike too.
Truthfully, I feel like the same could be said for basically everything here.
Oh look, an HQ doing logistics better than Guard/AdMech characters->Nexos, Primus, Clamavus trio
Etc Etc Etc
I'm hoping this is a sign of a shift in design mentality and the last vestiges of the 'old' way of doing things being taken out to pasture.
Yea it's really refreshing that they didn't default to reroll 1 bubbles. That was getting to be such a lazy and tiresome trick.
It would be nice to see marines get some better tricks when they get a new book. Like a captain providing fall back and shoot Etc Etc instead rerolls. Maybe make captains from other companies do different tricks.
All in all I am excited and happy, but this does look like some serious creep. Bookmark me and call me out later if I am wrong, I hope I am, but when an armies crap doctrines are Catachan +1 and Fall back and fire +1 thats crazy.
There are 12 characters which is crazy, so many buffs. Calling them a guard vet equivalent doesn't work. They get to deny spells, add 1 to charges and advances, get +1 to hit in assault, +1 to hit in shooting, redeploy, reroll morale, or fearless, and reroll 1's in shooting. All that before traits or psychic powers or considering they can deepstrike or counter deploy with the blips. I don't think there is another army that comes even close to that many auras.
I am going to need a huge bag of widgets to remember all those aura buffs. Good opportunity for someone with a lazer cutter out there.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Looks like certain army configurations can really mess with enemies relying heavily on character synergy.
Jackal Alphus, pair of Sanctus and a Kelermorph could force them to keep their heads down and out of sight. For nonsense like a Smash Captain, that’s quite a nice counter - if of course one works for it.
I am intrigued.
Your right, plus you can Clamavus him back 12" although I am not sure what he would smash that would pay for his cost.
The clamavus is going to be a requirement for the GSC mirror match lol. First two turns will revolve around each side sniping the guy and hoping he fails more bodyguard checks
I kind of agree with the_scottsmen here, you're kind of going overboard with calling out the codex creep. It's certianly looking good, but hordes of Neophytes don't scare anybody as my Shredderborne will shift them pretty quick as will many other armies. What I am noticing most is that it's going to be far more interesting and varied to play than the index list, which is a damn good thing.
No, the designer commentary only covers missing wargear entries, not a passage giving the ability to ignore a keyword for the purposes of battle-forged armies.
I'm not on the GSC wagon yet but have been waiting for the codex to build an "insurrectionist army" passion project using heavy conversions of necromunda gangers, and GW's willingness (or ineptitude) and seeming failure to realize the ramifications of just removing the old brood brothers rules
I'm not sure why they're calling it an Atalan Incineratori now instead of a Clearance Incinerator but it's stats haven't changed since the index, and it's not like they're the only 12" flamers in the game either.
Niiai wrote: +1 on charge rolls must be good right? Just pup Clavamus right next to your deep strike melee unit.
Now I am really wondering the primes role in all of this.
I also think the drill had some cool rules.
Clamavus + Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor + Anointed Throng gives you +3" to your charge in a 6" radius. That could fuel one heck of an Aberrant bomb.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
WindstormSCR wrote: Loss of the old brood brothers could be somewhat concerning for those who have added now illegal units to their collections in the year and a half that was a section of the index....
It doesn't look like there will be a lot missing. So far we just know Baneblades aren't in it. We can probably guess Forgeworld isn't in it either because GW will put the onus on Forgeworld to make a supplement (and we have no idea when Forgeworld will do that).
One more thing:
Lying In Wait - 2CP - Use this stratagem when you set up a unit from your army that has the Cult Ambush ability as reinforcements. When setting up that unit, it can be set up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 3" from any enemy models, but that unit cannot charge move this turn.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That makes the gunslinger much scarier again.
The information is the massive wall of text in the #news-amd-rumours channel. I expect the wall will be posted here soon enough too,. I can't do it right now.
Ready for a huge leak?
I'm about to drop all my info.
Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor: Subterranean Ambushers (+1 to advance and charge in first battle round or on first turn they appear)
Pauper Princes: Devoted Zealots (re-roll hits for attacks made with melee weapons when they charge, are charged or HI)
The Hivecult: Disciplined Militants (half models that flee morale, can shoot when they fall back but at -1 to hit)
The Bladed Cog: Cyborgised Hybrids (6++ or improve ++ by 1. Infantry don't suffer penalty to hit when moving and firing Heavy)
The Rusted Claw: Nomadic Survivalists (+1 to save if AP is 0 or -1. Biker models don't suffer penalty for moving and shooting Heavy or for advancing and shooting Assault)
The Twisted Helix: Experimental Subjects (+1 strength and +2 to advance)
Acolytes, neophytes and brood brothers are troops
Bikes are T4 2Wwith autopistol and blasting charges. 1 quad for every 4 bikes, Quad also has heavy stubber. They're -1 to hit in shooting phase.
Quad can change for mining laser
The bikers have to take two weapons from the atalan weapons list, can't take same weapon twice
(Autogun, autopistol, bolt pistol, cultist knife, demo charge, grenade launcher (1 in 4), improvised weapon, power axe (leader only), power hammer (leader only), power pick, shotgun)
Btw bikes are 10pts base + weapons (quad is 15)
Cult ambush is....
During deployment, set up a unit in CA. If Infantry or Biker you can set up in ambush OR underground. When underground, it can emerge at the end of any of your Movement phases. Set up a la DS. When set up in Ambush place a marker anywhere in your deployment zone. If you set up a Transport in ambush you must still say what's in it - one marker for transport and unit inside. Markers cant be shot etc. Measure from centre of the marker.
Now this is where it gets interesting
If you have 1st turn, you reveal all of your ambush markers at the start of your movement phase, one at a time, before moving units. Set model down within 1" of the marker, remove marker, place rest of unit wholly within 6" of that model and more than 9" from enemy models. Unit can move and shoot normally. but if it was a Transport, models that disembark cannot be set up within 9" of enemy. They don't count as moving when coming in from ambush, only if they move after.
If your opponent has the first turn, none of their units can be set up or end a move within 9" of a marker. At the end of your opponent's first movement phase, after they have set up all their unit from reinforcements, reveal all your ambush markers as described above before continuing the turn
For 1CP you can select 3 units that would be deployed via CA and instead put them underground (so basically you can set up units in your deployment zone and then say "feth this" and DS them anywhere if it suits)
for 1CP you can make your objectives secret, revealed only when you score them. That's cool
Nexos (map guy?) lets you select an ambush token you've deployed and move it anywhere in your deployment zone (12" away from enemy models). It's also got some CP regen ability
Roll a D6 when a CP is spent. If you spent it and there's a Primus and Nexos on the board, add 1. If your opponent spent it and there's a Clamavus and Nexos on the board, add 1. In either case, you get a CP on a 6+
Psychic.powers!
Mass Hypnosis - CV7 - Visible enemy unit within 18" can't fire overwatch, fights last in fight phase even if it charged and -1 to hit until your next psychic phase.
Mind Control - CV7 - Enemy model within 12" of psyker. Roll 3D6. If equal to or over Ld it can immediately shoot another enemy unit or make a single close combat attack against it. Can't attack self but can attack its own unit.
Psionic Blast - CV5 - Visible enemy unit within 18". 2D6 vs Ld. Lower = 1 MW, equal of higher = D3
Mental Onslaught - CV6 - Visible enemy within 18". Both players roll D6 and add Ld. If you score higher, model suffers 1 MW. Repeat this process until model is dead or you fail to wound it.
Psychic Stimulus - CV6 - Friendly unit within 18". Charge after advancing (though not after falling back) and always hit first even if they didn't charge.
Might From Beyond - CV7 - Friendly infantry or biker unit within 18". +1 S and A until next psychic phase.
CC points: Heavy improvised: 10, heavy power hammer: 16, Heavy rock drill: 17, power hammer: 4, power pick: 9, power sledgehammer: 0, power axe: 5, power maul: 4
Ridgerunner is M 14" T5 W8 Sv 4+ and comes with 2 heavy stubbers, heavy mining laser (can swap for missile launcher or heavy mortar) and flare launcher (can swap for survey augur or a spotter)
Gets a free 9" move at start of the game
Spotter increases range of its weapons by 6", augur ignores cover, flare launcher does the FNP and make bikers move faster thing
Default is 50 base + HML (25) + flares (5) so 80
Wow the locus is crazy (the bodyguard character)
2+ 2+ S4 T3 W4 A4 5+ with hypermorph tail (AP-1 D1 additional attack) and locus blades (Ap -3 D1 increase to D2 if it charged, was charged or performed HI). Does the usual bodyguard 'Absorb wound on 2+' thing. Subtracts enemy Ld by 1 within 6". Can HI 6" and can choose to move towards nearest enemy character rather than nearest enemy model, has 5++ and always fights first
Locus is 40pt elite
The Sanctus' sniper rifle causes a Perils if it wounds a psyker
Bike alphus
Alphus is 5W T4 5+ with -1 to hit in shooting, has a 36" heavy 1 S4 AP-2 D3 sniper rifle (additional MW on 6+ to wound). She selects a visible unit within 36" . Add +1 to hit rolls for friendly <Cult> units while they're within 6" of this model (or 12" if they're bikers).
Basically she markerlights gak
She picks a unit, everything cult nearby gets +1 to hit
Drill is interesting
Oh btw, to be clear, blips do not count as reserves
One per turn in their movement phase an infantry or biker unit with CA can move off the table if all models are on ground level and can move within 1" of the drill (can't do it the same turn it arrives as reinforcements). If a unit does this, remove them from the battlefield. At the end of the next movement phase, deep strike them
So basically, move up to within 1" of it and feth off for a turn, then pop up
And you can activate it if a model is on the piece at the end of your movement phase (and no enemy models are on it). D6 for every unit on ground level within 3" of the drill
D6 mortal wounds on a 6
Then roll a D6 again, adding 1 for every time the drill has been activated during the battle. <6 = Seismic Tremors (subtract 2" from charge rolls made within 12" of the model. Doesn't affect Fly. Not cumulative) 6+ = Seismic Quake (straight imaginary line 1mm in thickness from one battlefield edge to another that crosses the model. D6 for unit that the line crosses on ground level (not Fly). D3 MW on 4+ and movement is halved until next Movement phase.
Lol, the drill is 75pts
No Baneblade, etcs
Cult russ is standard BC, can be replaced
nova cannon, exterminator auto or vanquisher
without wargear which I cba to add up, acolytes 7pts (5-20), BB infantry squad 4pts (10), neophytes 5pts (10-20)
Heavy weapon teams in
That was lot for my poor brain. But heavy weapon teams are in?
The Bladed Cog: Cyborgised Hybrids (6++ or improve ++ by 1. Infantry don't suffer penalty to hit when moving and firing Heavy)
Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor: Subterranean Ambushers (+1 to advance and charge in first battle round or on first turn they appear)
Both of these two are quite good for tranditional (7th edition) lists. Pop up and charge something.
Or you can bring all of those nice weapons to bear, hitting on 4+. Like the mining lasers and grenade launchers.
The big mining drill is quite sweet if you cna put units in reserves again. A way to cheat gainst the 50% on the table, a lot like the tyranid mawlocks. Now you just need a squad of mooks that can stand there and man it (or is that not nessaserraly?) And on the later turns you can churn out mortal wounds.
This codex seems fun.
Also when the cult of the four armed emperor shows up you get to say "Exscuse me, but do you have a minute to talk about the lord?" before you charge in.
Aberrants and acolytes from 4 armed emperor + clamavus , with the formations of vigilius have very easy the assault
6+ for aberrants and 7+ rerolling for acolytes in area
One more thing:
Lying In Wait - 2CP - Use this stratagem when you set up a unit from your army that has the Cult Ambush ability as reinforcements. When setting up that unit, it can be set up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 3" from any enemy models, but that unit cannot charge move this turn.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That makes the gunslinger much scarier again.
I feel like I'm missing something here. The Kelermorph's guns have a range of 12", so what's the advantage of arriving 3" away (this strategem) over arriving 9" away (basic Underground deployment)? Is there a rule I'm forgetting?
I am quite curious to see what distinguishes a neophyte squad from a brood bro infantry squad. If brood brothers don't get cult tiles or cult ambush I can see the 5pts vs 4pts being justified bur otherwise I hope neos have some increased stats to justify them existing beyond the 1pt of leadership.
One more thing:
Lying In Wait - 2CP - Use this stratagem when you set up a unit from your army that has the Cult Ambush ability as reinforcements. When setting up that unit, it can be set up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 3" from any enemy models, but that unit cannot charge move this turn.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That makes the gunslinger much scarier again.
I feel like I'm missing something here. The Kelermorph's guns have a range of 12", so what's the advantage of arriving 3" away (this strategem) over arriving 9" away (basic Underground deployment)? Is there a rule I'm forgetting?
You can DS in past screens and into smaller spots... And if need be, be much closer with things like shotgun blobs.
What, what rnage can we DS in? 6, with the stratagem? What range does the flamers have? You who are good at math, can we put them 6" away and stil shoot if they are within 6?
One more thing:
Lying In Wait - 2CP - Use this stratagem when you set up a unit from your army that has the Cult Ambush ability as reinforcements. When setting up that unit, it can be set up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 3" from any enemy models, but that unit cannot charge move this turn.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That makes the gunslinger much scarier again.
I feel like I'm missing something here. The Kelermorph's guns have a range of 12", so what's the advantage of arriving 3" away (this strategem) over arriving 9" away (basic Underground deployment)? Is there a rule I'm forgetting?
You can DS in past screens and into smaller spots... And if need be, be much closer with things like shotgun blobs.
Okay. I see what you're saying. It's just rare for me to see a character being screened at 9" that isn't also effectively screened at 3".
Well, they can screen him at 9"and 3", but with terain on the board, and most characters having auras at some point they will be playing less optimally just by having the threath pressent.
Reading the leaks for the ridge runner it just seems to invalidate the existence of the rock grinder.
For 40 points you get:
2 wounds (with a degrading profile yippee)
6 transport cap.
2 toughness, from 5 to 7 (any marine players want to talk about his much that gets you on your rhinos vs ravagers?)
Crappy dozer blade thing that hits on 5s.
4" less movement and no scout move, no bike buff.
Shame. They could have added something gsc don't have yet with our second of 2 vehicle kits and instead they went the "you must buy the new thing it's the old thing but better" route.
the_scotsman wrote: Reading the leaks for the ridge runner it just seems to invalidate the existence of the rock grinder.
For 40 points you get:
2 wounds (with a degrading profile yippee)
6 transport cap.
2 toughness, from 5 to 7 (any marine players want to talk about his much that gets you on your rhinos vs ravagers?)
Crappy dozer blade thing that hits on 5s.
4" less movement and no scout move, no bike buff.
Shame. They could have added something gsc don't have yet with our second of 2 vehicle kits and instead they went the "you must buy the new thing it's the old thing but better" route.
Are the new rock grinder rules already known? Besides the transport capacity is something quite good for GSC.
Kanluwen wrote: I'm hoping this is a sign of a shift in design mentality and the last vestiges of the 'old' way of doing things being taken out to pasture.
Which is disappointing to me. I've been wanting a reason to buy a Baneblade for some time now, but don't want to play IG. I was waiting for them to expand the range before starting my GSC army, but I guess without Cult Baneblades, I don't really have a reason to build Brood Brothers.
the_scotsman wrote: Reading the leaks for the ridge runner it just seems to invalidate the existence of the rock grinder.
They don't really overlap at all in terms of role. The Rockgrinder is a combination transport + overwatch sponge while the Achilles is far more a stand-off weapons platform. The only thing the two have in common is a 6+ FNP (conditional in the case of the Achilles) and access to the Heavy Mining Laser (which as is doesn't really fit with the Rockgrinder's mission profile).
the_scotsman wrote: I am quite curious to see what distinguishes a neophyte squad from a brood bro infantry squad. If brood brothers don't get cult tiles or cult ambush I can see the 5pts vs 4pts being justified bur otherwise I hope neos have some increased stats to justify them existing beyond the 1pt of leadership.
Since this is the kit they're selling for Brood Brothers, I'd assume that it means the Neophytes are losing access to the Guard options, with Brood Brother units being the only way to access them.
Spoiler:
I'm, personally, not too fussed by that. I would not be surprised to see a rudimentary "Orders" mechanism on the unit either.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Oh look, an HQ using a Heavy rifle better than Marine characters. Ya know, while riding a bike too.
Truthfully, I feel like the same could be said for basically everything here.
Oh look, an HQ doing logistics better than Guard/AdMech characters->Nexos, Primus, Clamavus trio
Etc Etc Etc
I'm hoping this is a sign of a shift in design mentality and the last vestiges of the 'old' way of doing things being taken out to pasture.
Yea it's really refreshing that they didn't default to reroll 1 bubbles. That was getting to be such a lazy and tiresome trick.
It would be nice to see marines get some better tricks when they get a new book. Like a captain providing fall back and shoot Etc Etc instead rerolls. Maybe make captains from other companies do different tricks.
All in all I am excited and happy, but this does look like some serious creep. Bookmark me and call me out later if I am wrong, I hope I am, but when an armies crap doctrines are Catachan +1 and Fall back and fire +1 thats crazy.
There are 12 characters which is crazy, so many buffs. Calling them a guard vet equivalent doesn't work. They get to deny spells, add 1 to charges and advances, get +1 to hit in assault, +1 to hit in shooting, redeploy, reroll morale, or fearless, and reroll 1's in shooting. All that before traits or psychic powers or considering they can deepstrike or counter deploy with the blips. I don't think there is another army that comes even close to that many auras.
I am going to need a huge bag of widgets to remember all those aura buffs. Good opportunity for someone with a lazer cutter out there.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Looks like certain army configurations can really mess with enemies relying heavily on character synergy.
Jackal Alphus, pair of Sanctus and a Kelermorph could force them to keep their heads down and out of sight. For nonsense like a Smash Captain, that’s quite a nice counter - if of course one works for it.
I am intrigued.
Your right, plus you can Clamavus him back 12" although I am not sure what he would smash that would pay for his cost.
The clamavus is going to be a requirement for the GSC mirror match lol. First two turns will revolve around each side sniping the guy and hoping he fails more bodyguard checks
I kind of agree with the_scottsmen here, you're kind of going overboard with calling out the codex creep. It's certianly looking good, but hordes of Neophytes don't scare anybody as my Shredderborne will shift them pretty quick as will many other armies. What I am noticing most is that it's going to be far more interesting and varied to play than the index list, which is a damn good thing.
Shredder born won't do much. They will be out of range due to blips and basically screwed. Even if they were in range they are very inefficient. Rusted claw negates the AP. Your looking at 10 wounds before saves. If they are using prepared positions that's 3 dead. 15 points killed by 92 is not good.
This book is going to smash DE.
Edit. I think that's good to change the meta though.
WindstormSCR wrote: Loss of the old brood brothers could be somewhat concerning for those who have added now illegal units to their collections in the year and a half that was a section of the index....
That's sucks indeed.
All ork players owning kommandos with heavy weapons will agree for sure...
So a random genestealer cults terrorist dude can fire a heavy weapon off a moving vehicle better than a space marine can fire a boltgun standing still.
He literally snipes fools at BS2 while riding a 14" move dirtbike. Even a winged autarch with reaper launcher and the mark of the incomparable hunter can't do that.
Yeah! Let's make them hit on a 4+ instead so when they wound on a 4+ against even pretty weak HQs they'll definitely never be able to accomplish their role of killing characters.
Gotta make sure their abilities are realistic when compared to those of a 10,000 year old winged space elf sniping with a magical missile launcher. Otherwise this would just be difficult to believe.
You know, what really gets me is that new GSC stuff does literally the same thing the Primaris range was supposed to be, only five times better. Let's see, Reivers are supposed to be tasked with the same thing as Keler, deep striking in and hitting weak points - except, their 'heavy' bolt pistols are weaker than homemade junk he totes and you get 5 shots from 100 pts squad instead of 6/12 with exploding rolls on 60 pts model twice as accurate. Oh, and they need to deep strike 9 inches away instead of 3 and have zero mechanisms to actually get into melee unlike GSC.
The primaris stalker rifles not only look puny stat-wise next to small biker rifle, if they actually had same damage, MW potential, and free target choice, there would be finally a point to taking stalker squads, even though they would be still much less efficient and much less accurate than GSC guy for more points. Seriously, stalkers on primaris are such garbage no one ever takes them. Why GW didn't fix them by literally copy-pasting GSC rifle profile in CA Intercessors seeing they seemingly know what the sniper issues are given they fixed it with GSC book, I have no idea.
Ditto for primaris bodyguards. They could surely use a few of the rules GSC one packs. Not all, seeing some variety is always nice and there should be some race variation, but today preview made the new primaris kit look really bland in comparison. Vigilus now looks really underwhelming too, on both sides (why they couldn't give CSM Shakespeare some of terror based GSC rule lookalike too?).
Then there are GSC bikes. T4, W2, 4+ save, literally primaris statline. For 10 points. And you can apparently make them 3+ with a trait. Oh, and 14 inch move and -1 to hit. And to make it even funnier, they got power axes from get go. Which primaris still can't take after two years unless on one model in very specific subfaction which then needs to take terrible gun to go with it
And I especially like how random cultists are better than bike riding and vehicle operations than Astartes. Would it kill GW to amend chapter traits in CA to apply to everything like in every other book? I really have no idea why it would be even an issue, seeing what few broken FW models SM have already get to take traits while not a single SM tank would be anywhere near OP with them.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying GSC are OP or anything. That remains to be seen, the only thing I have issue with is why GW can't apply all that creativity to other armies. Virtually all xenos are good to excellent this edition, while power armoured factions are not only bad across the board, only kept afloat by one model or two at best, but also extremely bland and bereft of creative ideas. Primaris not only suffer from lack of options, half of what they have are plainly terrible or don't even work, making them effectively mono-build despite having more options than old SM on most of their models. Sister beta codex is extremely underwhelming and it just a let down all around even compared to their Index. Inquisition is, well, you know. Last 3 editions of GK books are junk compared to wealth of ideas that was 5th edition book. Etc, etc, I am happy for GSC players but it really looks like someone in GW hates PA with a passion and sabotages it on every possible occasion, with band-aids such as tiny point drops or new bolter rule being baby steps while xenos get to prance around willy-nilly...
slave.entity wrote: So a random genestealer cults terrorist dude can fire a heavy weapon off a moving vehicle better than a space marine can fire a boltgun standing still.
He literally snipes fools at BS2 while riding a 14" move dirtbike. Even a winged autarch with reaper launcher and the mark of the incomparable hunter can't do that.
Sniper rifles are Heavy, so she'd be at BS3--unless he's got a specific Cult(Rusted Claw's "Nomadic Survivalists") perk.
I mean yeah, you're not wrong that it's a ballistic skill oriented character that's going to be having good ballistic skill and working out well as such...but is that really such a bad thing?
slave.entity wrote: No need to get all serious and defensive about it guys. We all know 40k is all about absurd scenarios and this is just the latest addition.
Am I the only one who thinks its funny?
Or is this the competitive-discussion-only thread where we're not allowed to make fun of silly fluff discrepancies?
I think it's fething hilarious that these mutant underground terrorist miners are apparently shaping up to be some of the baddest mofos in the galaxy.
I see the humor in it, but after a while your genetic super soldiers have to do something to keep things interesting. I can't blame folks for getting a bit annoyed.
I blame the fact that marines are true north for the game. They are the vanilla ice cream everything else that's more interesting is based off.
Guys gotta lighten up a bit. I want to see that 1000 year old magical space elf get head shot by a terrorist on a dirt bike as much as anyone here. Imagine the look on the eldar player's face...
slave.entity wrote: No need to get all serious and defensive about it guys. Am I the only one who thinks its funny?
Or is this the competitive-discussion-only thread where we're not allowed to make fun of silly fluff discrepancies?
I think it's fething hilarious that these mutant underground terrorist miners are apparently shaping up to be some of the baddest mofos in the galaxy
You seem awfully obsessed with what other people think. As long as no one is criticizing you for thinking it's funny, why do you care so much about whether or not other people think its funny too?
Quick, nobody do the math on how much the re-roll to charge from BT tactics improves your success rate vs the +1 from GSC! Marine CTs are why theyre so bad!
(no, it's because they don't apply to everything and their individual units/stratagems/etc tend to be bad)
slave.entity wrote: No need to get all serious and defensive about it guys. Am I the only one who thinks its funny?
Or is this the competitive-discussion-only thread where we're not allowed to make fun of silly fluff discrepancies?
I think it's fething hilarious that these mutant underground terrorist miners are apparently shaping up to be some of the baddest mofos in the galaxy
You seem awfully obsessed with what other people think. As long as no one is criticizing you for thinking it's funny, why do you care so much about whether or not other people think its funny too?
Why not? We're having a friendly discussion here. I think the people in this thread could stand to relax a little bit and not take everything as a personal attack.
Apparently the caster can be buffed to Ld13 and the target can be debuffed to -3 using a combo of various Vigilus rules, traits, or relics meaning that the spell instakills anything Ld10 or lower, regardless of wound count. Day 1 patch incoming? Or maybe we're missing some critical info here.
Copy/pasted more info from the Reddit comment below:
Spoiler:
So I used Excel to simulate Mental Onslaught against various targets, under the assumption that it will say "unit" rather than "model" because Geedubs probably wants all psychic powers for an underselling faction to be useful.
I simulated 30 rolls (don't think units get bigger) for each Mental Onslaught and I did this 2000 times.
Here are the results
TLDR: Holy gak, this makes the patriarch good. Combine with the Horror psychic power from a Tyranid psyker for -1 to enemy leadership to deal an average of ~5 wounds to a LD9 leader, which is "most of them" or if it's actually all models in the unit, then just fething wipe off entire squads of most infantry. And all this is assuming there's no relic that adds leadership. If there is a relic which gives leadership to units close to the holder, then patriarchs are going to become one of the most dangerous units in the entire game, being able to reliably obliterate any target they choose, in a 26+D6" threat range. For the sheer insanity available here, I think that perhaps there's a reason why it's only 1 model.
Edit: Jormungandr monsters can take the Infrasonic Roar relic, which reduces the leadership of models within 6" by 1. Could be useful.
Edit 2: Pretty clear from the maths that you can simply shift them down, but according to u/Khaanik, the iconward gets a LD aura from the vigilus book and I realised you can add the Inspiring Leader warlord trait, resulting in a potential leadership for the Patriarch of 13. If you then use a Jormungandr flyrant with the relic to apply the Horror to a knight (-2 leadership), you can deal an average of TWENTY wounds. Even without the relic, it's still 10.339.
Edit 3: Locus also reduces enemy leadership by 1. This means that with all of that, anything with leadership 10 or lower (reduced to 7, vs your 13.) cannot beat your roll and you instantly kill anything you desire with this power (if you roll 1 and they roll 6, you have 14 and they have 13). A guardsman to a 2000 point tyranid biotitan. Just dead. Instantly. Move over Eldrad, move over Emperor, move over Tzeentch, there's a new Psyker god in town.
You could do similar tricks with Harlequins and a farseer plus Swooping Hawks Exarch casting Mind War. It’s interesting that we get an Ld attack option, but this type of strategy tends to require a lot of buffs/debuffs to go off/be in range to pull off, and hence don’t really work out that well in real life. Just as often you fail one of the psychic rolls and face plant. If this makes the Patroarch better, though, I am all for it. I never take the Patriarch as it stands. Two magi are pretty much always better.
Also the psychic power is only ever going to do wounds to one model. So yeah if you can get into an infinite loop vs an imperial knight, gg knight. But if you do the same thing on a 40 man cultist squad, the most you can kill....is one cultist.
Therein lies the balance IMO. And as others have pointed out, you need multiple psychic powers and buff/debuff auras, plus a relic to do all of that.
TLDR: that’s not how we’re going to kill knights. But oh...we are going to kil knights
Seems like insane character assassination ability is one of the major themes for this release. Their book has incredible tools for point/click deleting single models.
luke1705 wrote: Also the psychic power is only ever going to do wounds to one model. So yeah if you can get into an infinite loop vs an imperial knight, gg knight. But if you do the same thing on a 40 man cultist squad, the most you can kill....is one cultist.
Therein lies the balance IMO. And as others have pointed out, you need multiple psychic powers and buff/debuff auras, plus a relic to do all of that.
TLDR: that’s not how we’re going to kill knights. But oh...we are going to kil knights
Yes, though it feels a little too easy.
Fortunately it's "the roll is higher", which means a standard LD9 v LD10 is 58%. That's pretty easy to slip up on.
-1 is 72%, so 3 to 4 wounds on average.
-2 is 83% (5 to 6 wounds) -- here is where it gets really dangerous
-3 is 92%
If it's an LD8 model then it's much worse, but hopefully those have stayed away from the caster.
I'm going to bring back the topic of codex creep with relation to what we know about the GSC codex, and bring up what I think is really going on.
When 8th Edition first came out, started releasing codexes (codices? codiqueue?) rapidly. Even with lead time, this didn't leave much time to test a bunch of new rules and their interactions (keep all "GW does or doesn't playtest" comments to yourself please). This meant that there was a TON of overlap between the codexes for abilities, stratagems and warlord traits. GW was, if I make my guess, a bit worried about unpredicted interactions and severely unbalanced forces, so they kept things relatively simple for a while. It wasn't until the Dark Eldar Codex that we really started to see a shift away from the previous codexes, and while the Space Wolves were more "8th Ed Standard", Orks have changed it up a bit as well.
What I think we're seeing here is an evolution. Even though I don't play Loyalist Marines, I'm very curious to see what their next codex looks like, or what their next rules add-on looks like. Genestealer Cult seems like it's the first out of the gate in the true second generation of codexes, and I'm assuming everyone else will get the same treatment.
the_scotsman wrote: I am quite curious to see what distinguishes a neophyte squad from a brood bro infantry squad. If brood brothers don't get cult tiles or cult ambush I can see the 5pts vs 4pts being justified bur otherwise I hope neos have some increased stats to justify them existing beyond the 1pt of leadership.
Since this is the kit they're selling for Brood Brothers, I'd assume that it means the Neophytes are losing access to the Guard options, with Brood Brother units being the only way to access them.
Spoiler:
I'm, personally, not too fussed by that. I would not be surprised to see a rudimentary "Orders" mechanism on the unit either.
I suppose this means taking neophytes vs brood brothers will just depend on which weapons you favor in your shooty cult squads. Mining weapons go on neos, and HWT's go with brood brothers.
Lorek wrote: Yes, but I meant the re-releases for the loyalist codexes. They're bound to be updated somehow, and I don't see GW being averse to this idea.
The great thing about GSC is that they can STILL ally with Tyranids and Astra Militarum. So even if this big release leaves some holes in their lines, they can still supplement all of that with allies.
Now, with GSC getting some really potent charactes and fast new units, they're going to be even better.
the_scotsman wrote: Reading the leaks for the ridge runner it just seems to invalidate the existence of the rock grinder.
For 40 points you get:
2 wounds (with a degrading profile yippee)
6 transport cap.
2 toughness, from 5 to 7 (any marine players want to talk about his much that gets you on your rhinos vs ravagers?)
Crappy dozer blade thing that hits on 5s.
4" less movement and no scout move, no bike buff.
Shame. They could have added something gsc don't have yet with our second of 2 vehicle kits and instead they went the "you must buy the new thing it's the old thing but better" route.
Stats have been leaked? It can transport 4 figures? I did not see that.
>Tau invent complex computer aided laser targeting system to increase their marksmanship
>If five separate guns all hit an enemy, Tau get +1 to shooting
>Gsc give a motorcycle riding bimbo a sniper rifle, hold her beer, and automatically get +1 to shooting
I think it's clear that this book is throwing away the established relationships between stats and fluff. Which is annoying. But the rules themselves seem pretty rad, and should be fun to play with (although that one power may break the freakin game.)
I'll be happy if this is the first in a new trend of codices, and if marines also get updated to be like this.
>Tau invent complex computer aided laser targeting system to increase their marksmanship
>If five separate guns all hit an enemy, Tau get +1 to shooting
>Gsc give a motorcycle riding bimbo a sniper rifle, hold her beer, and automatically get +1 to shooting
That doesn't seem right?
True but that's 4chan for you After all the Jackal Alpha looks like she is a HQ choice, not a wargear option like markerlights(also it only works on GSC units within 6 of the Alpha or 12 if they are bikers). And if you need a background justification for her spotting abilities, I'm sure something to do with engineered hybrid physiology and brood telepathy could be thrown together.
The "established relationship between stats and fluff" has always been shaky at best, and this was inevitably going to happen when an army painted as the rebel uprising has to rub shoulders with various flavors of super soldiers that have been trying to one up each other fluff wise for several decades. What exactly were people expecting GSC to have, a bunch of completely ineffective weapons and abilities? If the game just slavishly followed the lore, Space marine would win by default.
If the game slavishly followed the lore, Space Marines would hardly show up at all, and most games would be Guard v Orks or Guard v traitors.
Anyway, it does strike me as an issue when someone with a sniper rifle somehow provides a better bonus than markerlights by dint of, what, her being an HQ choice? That's not a justification for poorly conceived rules.
Rumours/leaks that were recently posted on the GSC-facebook group by Quentin Forestier.
Found some more stuff,
Citation
Kelermorph is 60
Purestrains 15
Primus 75
Patriarch 125
Magus 80
Nexos 50
Clamavus 55
Cult of the four armed emperor d3 cp free reroll save hit wound
Hivecult reroll 1s shooting within 6
Bladed cog old grudges
Rusted claw whenever you roll a 6 to wound -1ap in fight phase 6 inch bubble
Pauper Prince +2 to UL rolls
Twisted helix +1 damage not on relics
Models with the genestealer keyword don’t benefit from cult traits.
Brood brothers are in, but have a lot of caveats. There is brood brother infantry and brood brother heavy weapon teams, russes, sentinels. They can all be in gsc detachments but don’t break the cult benefit however don’t benefit.
You can have 1 Astra Militarum detachment for each gsc one, you get brood brother keyword which adds +1 leadership. They receive 1/2 the command points rounding up. Can’t be specialist detachments.
Magus and Patriarch know 2 powers now still cast one. Same familiar rules
Relics :
Banner same
Bonesword +2 str -3ap d3 damage reroll hit wound
Amulet +1 saving throws vs ranged no overwatch
Relic autopistol/liberator 3 shots str 4 -2 2, can pick out characters reroll to wound vs characters
Cultist knife or Sanctus knife str user -2 2, 1 extra attack wounds on 2+ apart from vehicles. If a character suffers a wound, take d3 more after attacks
Patriarch or magus familiar +1 cast, extra spell
Jackal sniper/Sanctus sniper +2 wound rolls apart from against vehicles
Strats:
Hide cards 1cp
Use top wound row vehicles 1cp
Lurking shadows Use during opponents shooting phase on an infantry unit that is entirely on or within a terrain feature. They can’t be targeted unless the nearest visible unit 2cp
Monstrous vigour use at the start of your turn +1 to bestial vigour rolls for the unit 2cp
Meticulous uprising before you reveal an ambush marker can move 3 12inches 1cp
Can return 3 markers underground 1cp
Autoexplode vehicle when it dies 1cp
start of battle for purestrains roll a dice 1-2 on 6+ wound rolls extra damage, 3-4 extra +1 advance charge 5-6 4+ save but lose swift and deadly 1cp
Scanner decoys setup 4 ambush markers for this unit 1 cp Detonate concealer explosives in shooting phase pick a unit roll a dice 4+ d3 mortals, 7+ d6, +1 vs 10+ models -1 characters 2 cp Telepathic summons use at start of the psychic phase on a cult psyker cannot cast. Roll 3d6 can add 1 infantry or bike unit with PL equal or below unit is setup immediately 9 inches away 2cp
Return to shadows is go back into reserve have to be 3 away from enemies at end of the move phase infantry bikes 1cp
Extra explosive 10 models can throw grenades , 5 demo charges max 1cp
Bladed cog overthrow the oppressors in fight phase pick a unit not genestealers. Roll of unmodified 6 generates extra hit roll. 5+ vs imperium 4+ vs admech
Hivecult chilling efficiency. Cadia overlapping fields 2cp
Rusted claw drive by demolitions. Bike unit adds +1 hit wound when using grenades and can move after shooting
Rusted claw drive by demolitions. Bike unit adds +1 hit wound when using grenades and can move after shooting
Pauper princes 1 cp when enemy kills one character add +1 hit when attacking that unit
Twisted helix monstrous biohorrors 3cp end of fight phase aberrant keyword can fight again and subtract -1ld for units within 6 of them
Cof4armE A plan generations in the making. Agents of vec basically
Luke_Prowler wrote: The "established relationship between stats and fluff" has always been shaky at best, and this was inevitably going to happen when an army painted as the rebel uprising has to rub shoulders with various flavors of super soldiers that have been trying to one up each other fluff wise for several decades. What exactly were people expecting GSC to have, a bunch of completely ineffective weapons and abilities? If the game just slavishly followed the lore, Space marine would win by default.
I think people were expecting it to be like the Index, but with some traits and strats, like every other army. The large amount of high powered snipers that are notably more powerful than other snipers is a bit of a surprise. Now I'm of the opinion that the other snipers are all far too weak, but that's a different matter.
Space Marines should have some of the most powerful infantry, with their troops being roughly equivalent to other people's elite infantry (aspect warriors, nobz, warriors, etc). That doesn't mean they have to win after you account for points. So no, they wouldn't win by default. But the power relations in the rules should resemble the lore. That's kind of the whole point of having a game system to run games set in a certain fictional universe.
Eh, super not keen on GCS getting a Vect stratagem and the Coven WL trait on the same subfaction. Having 1 army/soup with it, to contend with, is bad enough – now there will be 2 armies/soups.
If true, kinda glad the 4++ Genestealer idea has been shut down already.
Glad they’ve done something in regards to cutting the CP gained from adding in a Guard battalion to a GSC list, maybe we’ll start to see this more going forward.
If the Kelermorph is a mere 60 points, looking kinda like an auto-include for me.
And if the rumour about AM stuff not being allowed specialist formations? Might have to do a Disloyal 32, and pile the Manticores into a single battery.
Genestealers not getting faction traits seems odd to me. The cultists presumably get the abilities they do from sharing genetic material from the Patriarch, and genestealers are just another generation of cultists. But oh well.
The real issue then is that it further pushes people away from genestealers and towards Aberrants, and perhaps even Acolytes and Metamorphs after this change. And if they are still 15 points they perhaps seem not worth it. Given Nid stealers get the relevant hive fleet bonuses, I think you could justify GSC stealers also being 12 points, with their 'bonus' being ambush.
The sniper that causes Perils of the Warp on psykers if a wound comes through could be really good. Most (or at least quite a few) psykers aren't that armoured so causing a wound shouldn't be too tough.
The you have Damage d3 (plus maybe an additional mortal) and d3 mortals from perils. That'll be enough to kill almost any psyker in the game with a bit of luck.
It's fun, something that most of the codex could be described as from the previews and leaks. Hopefully these new rules and models means we'll start seeing GSC on more tables.
>Tau invent complex computer aided laser targeting system to increase their marksmanship
>If five separate guns all hit an enemy, Tau get +1 to shooting
>Gsc give a motorcycle riding bimbo a sniper rifle, hold her beer, and automatically get +1 to shooting
That doesn't seem right?
Uhm, what am I missing here? For ALL Tau to get a +1 or only ONE SINGLE GSC gets a +1, so why so upset. It's not like all GSC get the +1 to shoot, or am I missing something here? Been ages so maybe I am getting the Tau rules wrong?
>Tau invent complex computer aided laser targeting system to increase their marksmanship
>If five separate guns all hit an enemy, Tau get +1 to shooting
>Gsc give a motorcycle riding bimbo a sniper rifle, hold her beer, and automatically get +1 to shooting
That doesn't seem right?
Uhm, what am I missing here? For ALL Tau to get a +1 or only ONE SINGLE GSC gets a +1, so why so upset. It's not like all GSC get the +1 to shoot, or am I missing something here? Been ages so maybe I am getting the Tau rules wrong?
The Jackal Alphus grants +1 to hit for all units in a 6 inch bubble not just one unit. So this is actually super strong with Heavy Weapons Teams and Leman Russ.
But the comparison with the Tau stuff is still lacking, because we are talking about a single character here, which is even limited to 1 per detachement. No one is complaining about other + to hit or reroll bubbles. Of course they can be super strong, but they are a buff granted by characters.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Now that I think about it: Leman Russ and HWT will probably not profit from the Alphus, because they are not Cult units. (they apparently also do not profit from traits)
I don't think the +1 will work on Russes and such. As it seems (according to the rumours) lthatthey will lack the CULT keyword and gain the BROOD BROTHER keyword instead.
EDIT: @Astmeister, darn fast edit. I was just an second to late
"Several Genestealer Cults units also have the Brood Brothers keyword. These units can be included in a GSC detachment without preventing other units in that detachment from gaining a Cult Creed. Note, however, that Brood Brothers units do not themselves benefit from any Cult Creed.
In addition, to represent Astra Militarum forces that have been subverted, you can include Astra Miliatrum units and Genestealer Cult units in the same Matched Play army, even though these units do not have any Faction keywords in common. In such cases, ignore the AM units when choosing your army faction.
If your army is battle-forged, you can only include one AM detachment (one in which every unit has the AM keyword) in your army for each GSC detachment in that army. You cannot include AM named characters in these detachments, and these detachments cannot be Specialist Detachments. These AM detachments are then known as Brood Brother detachments, and every unit in them that has the <Regiment> or Militarum Tempestus keyword must replace it in every instance with Brood Brothers (if a unit doesn't have either of these keywords it simply gains the Brood Brothers keyword).
Brood Brothers detachments do not gain any of the detachment abilities listed in Codex: AM, such as regimental doctrines, nor can it use any regiment-specific stratagems, orders etc. Furthermore, infantry models in Brood Brothers detachments increase their Leaderdship by 1 and gain the Unquestioning Loyalty ability. They do not gain the Cult Ambush ability. Your Warlord cannot be from a Brood Brothers detachment, and you cannot give any Relics to Brood Brother Characters. In addition, the Command Benefits of all Brood Brothers detachments included in your army in this way are halved (rounding up). This reflects that such detachments are not a GSC's primary fighting force, and the acquisition or such military assets is costly in terms of resource."
Lol. Cult of the 4 armed Emperor get's +1 charge (incl. from Deepstrike) and the Agents-of-Vect-equivalent?
Guess that settles what people will play. If that's true, internal balance will make Prophets of Flesh vs. the other traits nobody ever saw look like an excruciatingly hard choice for players.
]Cult Demagogue - Add 1 to hit rolls for attacks made by <Cult> units in the Fight phase whilst they are within 6" of any friendly <Cult> Primuses.
Meticulous Planner - The first time this model is set up on the battlefield, select one enemy unit on the battlefield. Re-roll wound rolls of 1 for attacks made by friendly <Cult> units that have the Cult Ambush ability whilst they are within 6" of this model when targeting that enemy unit
Metamorphs are basically unchanged from before, rules wise.
They are 9pts base, +1 for the talon, so 10pts base.
Goliath trucks + Rockgrinders:
Truck basic loadout (twin autocannon and heavy stubber) is 72, Rockgrinder basic (heavy stubber, heavy mining laser, drilldozer blade) is 105
H.B.M.C. wrote: Anyway, it does strike me as an issue when someone with a sniper rifle somehow provides a better bonus than markerlights by dint of, what, her being an HQ choice? That's not a justification for poorly conceived rules.
Almost like they're psychic or something. It's hardly a stretch that an expert sniper given access to telepathy could improve the shooting of those around them.
Luke_Prowler wrote: The "established relationship between stats and fluff" has always been shaky at best, and this was inevitably going to happen when an army painted as the rebel uprising has to rub shoulders with various flavors of super soldiers that have been trying to one up each other fluff wise for several decades. What exactly were people expecting GSC to have, a bunch of completely ineffective weapons and abilities? If the game just slavishly followed the lore, Space marine would win by default.
Still don't get the space marines must be best idea, in their best stories they lose and do an extraordinary amount of damage to the enemy in the process leading to the mere possibility of victory, or they just fall into damnation entirely.
That said, I think people are getting a little excited over the points values, remember how quickly these things die to anything rougher than a stiff breeze. Guardsmen will kill a few of them just by turning their flashlights on trying to get a fix with the lasguns. If something dies in a single turn it's not worth that much in points with very little regard for how much damage it can do in that turn. The kellermorph is no knight, you sneeze on the guy and he's toast. Bring some anti-infantry to shred his body guards and he'll probably be dead before you get through them.
That said, I'm dying at how much this codex undercuts the current meta. Look forward to something to nuke knights with and I'll be ready to annoy any overly competitive players in my league coming up.
That said, I'm dying at how much this codex undercuts the current meta. Look forward to something to nuke knights with and I'll be ready to annoy any overly competitive players in my league coming up.
You might find those overly competitive players switch to GSC in no time if the leaks are indeed true
Almost like they're psychic or something. It's hardly a stretch that an expert sniper given access to telepathy could improve the shooting of those around them.
Don't think anyone would've objected to an appropriate psychic power that does that for him.
It's hardly a stretch that marker drones improve the shooting for Tau units around them either.
It's the difference in implementation of "you just get it, thanks for buying the model" or actually have rules interaction like hit rolls, psychic tests, at the very least costs in limited resources like CP, that make it a "game".
And to an extend it's the sillyness of it. Maybe there's a justification for why a flare gun on vehicle gives it a 6+++ against anything and everything, from Mortar fire to Ahriman's combat spells. But if that's the case, why doesn't the Imperium (or the Eldar or whoever) immediately equip everything and anything it has, from a Sentinel walker to a Castellan Knight, from a Rhino to a Fortress of Redemption, with a flare gun, making them 16.666% more resilient against anything any enemy could conceivable throw at it. Who needs the finest cybernetic enhancements the AdMech can produce for the Iron Hands or the uncanny precognition of the Ulthwe Eldar, when a dinky flare gun does the very same thing, lol?
And to an extend it's the sillyness of it. Maybe there's a justification for why a flare gun on vehicle gives it a 6+++ against anything and everything, from Mortar fire to Ahriman's combat spells. But if that's the case, why doesn't the Imperium (or the Eldar or whoever) immediately equip everything and anything it has, from a Sentinel walker to a Castellan Knight, from a Rhino to a Fortress of Redemption, with a flare gun, making them 16.666% more resilient against anything any enemy could conceivable throw at it. Who needs the finest cybernetic enhancements the AdMech can produce for the Iron Hands or the uncanny precognition of the Ulthwe Eldar, when a dinky flare gun does the very same thing, lol?
Not to mention that flares are not usefull to stop people shooting at you.
Flares are usefull when you want to mark something for airsupport or artillery. OR IF YOU WANT ATTENTION.
That said, I'm dying at how much this codex undercuts the current meta. Look forward to something to nuke knights with and I'll be ready to annoy any overly competitive players in my league coming up.
You might find those overly competitive players switch to GSC in no time if the leaks are indeed true
I believe I saw the moderator of the competitive subreddit saying that the playtesters are already doing this.
It's interesting to see that for all their supposed improvement, GW still couldn't get away from flavor-of-the-month syndrome because of bad codex balancing within the same edition. Whether it's the good kind of interesting or not, is left as an exercise for the reader.
slave.entity wrote: So what does everyone think of the new Mental Onslaught ability? Apparently GSC are better casters than Tsons and Eldar now as well?
Apparently the caster can be buffed to Ld13 and the target can be debuffed to -3 using a combo of various Vigilus rules, traits, or relics meaning that the spell instakills anything Ld10 or lower, regardless of wound count. Day 1 patch incoming? Or maybe we're missing some critical info here.
Copy/pasted more info from the Reddit comment below:
Spoiler:
So I used Excel to simulate Mental Onslaught against various targets, under the assumption that it will say "unit" rather than "model" because Geedubs probably wants all psychic powers for an underselling faction to be useful.
I simulated 30 rolls (don't think units get bigger) for each Mental Onslaught and I did this 2000 times.
Here are the results
TLDR: Holy gak, this makes the patriarch good. Combine with the Horror psychic power from a Tyranid psyker for -1 to enemy leadership to deal an average of ~5 wounds to a LD9 leader, which is "most of them" or if it's actually all models in the unit, then just fething wipe off entire squads of most infantry. And all this is assuming there's no relic that adds leadership. If there is a relic which gives leadership to units close to the holder, then patriarchs are going to become one of the most dangerous units in the entire game, being able to reliably obliterate any target they choose, in a 26+D6" threat range. For the sheer insanity available here, I think that perhaps there's a reason why it's only 1 model.
Edit: Jormungandr monsters can take the Infrasonic Roar relic, which reduces the leadership of models within 6" by 1. Could be useful.
Edit 2: Pretty clear from the maths that you can simply shift them down, but according to u/Khaanik, the iconward gets a LD aura from the vigilus book and I realised you can add the Inspiring Leader warlord trait, resulting in a potential leadership for the Patriarch of 13. If you then use a Jormungandr flyrant with the relic to apply the Horror to a knight (-2 leadership), you can deal an average of TWENTY wounds. Even without the relic, it's still 10.339.
Edit 3: Locus also reduces enemy leadership by 1. This means that with all of that, anything with leadership 10 or lower (reduced to 7, vs your 13.) cannot beat your roll and you instantly kill anything you desire with this power (if you roll 1 and they roll 6, you have 14 and they have 13). A guardsman to a 2000 point tyranid biotitan. Just dead. Instantly. Move over Eldrad, move over Emperor, move over Tzeentch, there's a new Psyker god in town.
It's almost certainly worded "model" rather than "unit" and I'd also be very surprised to see it not be "Infantry Model" or "character" which IIRC is how the Mind war power is restricted.
I sincerely doubt you will be able to drop a knights leadership and instagib it.
Agamemnon2 wrote: It's interesting to see that for all their supposed improvement, GW still couldn't get away from flavor-of-the-month syndrome because of bad codex balancing within the same edition. Whether it's the good kind of interesting or not, is left as an exercise for the reader.
Well before that in 8th they had actually improved, if we ignore GK and Necrons, (and any FW index) but that's beside the point.
If that is true, @slave.entity, is it like the GK thingy were they ruined a whole edition?
Atleast this time we may have CA to get us out of the hole if it happens to be unbalanced.
Mellon wrote: Rumours/leaks that were recently posted on the GSC-facebook group by Quentin Forestier.
Found some more stuff,
Citation
Kelermorph is 60
Purestrains 15
Primus 75
Patriarch 125
Magus 80
Nexos 50
Clamavus 55
Cult of the four armed emperor d3 cp free reroll save hit wound
Hivecult reroll 1s shooting within 6
Bladed cog old grudges
Rusted claw whenever you roll a 6 to wound -1ap in fight phase 6 inch bubble
Pauper Prince +2 to UL rolls
Twisted helix +1 damage not on relics
Models with the genestealer keyword don’t benefit from cult traits.
Brood brothers are in, but have a lot of caveats. There is brood brother infantry and brood brother heavy weapon teams, russes, sentinels. They can all be in gsc detachments but don’t break the cult benefit however don’t benefit.
You can have 1 Astra Militarum detachment for each gsc one, you get brood brother keyword which adds +1 leadership. They receive 1/2 the command points rounding up. Can’t be specialist detachments.
Magus and Patriarch know 2 powers now still cast one. Same familiar rules
Relics :
Banner same
Bonesword +2 str -3ap d3 damage reroll hit wound
Amulet +1 saving throws vs ranged no overwatch
Relic autopistol/liberator 3 shots str 4 -2 2, can pick out characters reroll to wound vs characters
Cultist knife or Sanctus knife str user -2 2, 1 extra attack wounds on 2+ apart from vehicles. If a character suffers a wound, take d3 more after attacks
Patriarch or magus familiar +1 cast, extra spell
Jackal sniper/Sanctus sniper +2 wound rolls apart from against vehicles
Strats:
Hide cards 1cp
Use top wound row vehicles 1cp
Lurking shadows Use during opponents shooting phase on an infantry unit that is entirely on or within a terrain feature. They can’t be targeted unless the nearest visible unit 2cp
Monstrous vigour use at the start of your turn +1 to bestial vigour rolls for the unit 2cp
Meticulous uprising before you reveal an ambush marker can move 3 12inches 1cp
Can return 3 markers underground 1cp
Autoexplode vehicle when it dies 1cp
start of battle for purestrains roll a dice 1-2 on 6+ wound rolls extra damage, 3-4 extra +1 advance charge 5-6 4+ save but lose swift and deadly 1cp
Scanner decoys setup 4 ambush markers for this unit 1 cp Detonate concealer explosives in shooting phase pick a unit roll a dice 4+ d3 mortals, 7+ d6, +1 vs 10+ models -1 characters 2 cp Telepathic summons use at start of the psychic phase on a cult psyker cannot cast. Roll 3d6 can add 1 infantry or bike unit with PL equal or below unit is setup immediately 9 inches away 2cp
Return to shadows is go back into reserve have to be 3 away from enemies at end of the move phase infantry bikes 1cp
Extra explosive 10 models can throw grenades , 5 demo charges max 1cp
Bladed cog overthrow the oppressors in fight phase pick a unit not genestealers. Roll of unmodified 6 generates extra hit roll. 5+ vs imperium 4+ vs admech
Hivecult chilling efficiency. Cadia overlapping fields 2cp
Rusted claw drive by demolitions. Bike unit adds +1 hit wound when using grenades and can move after shooting
Rusted claw drive by demolitions. Bike unit adds +1 hit wound when using grenades and can move after shooting
Pauper princes 1 cp when enemy kills one character add +1 hit when attacking that unit
Twisted helix monstrous biohorrors 3cp end of fight phase aberrant keyword can fight again and subtract -1ld for units within 6 of them
Cof4armE A plan generations in the making. Agents of vec basically
Enjoy brothers, Hope is not Lost.
That is *exactly* the restrictions I thought we'd be seeing on GSC cult traits. So, we have the following units that don't benefit from traits:
1/3 of the units in the codex don't benefit from Cult Traits. You know what's funny? Not counting duplicate units like Character on Bike or weird exclusives like the Imperial Space Marine, my SM index has 34 non chapter exclusive units that do benefit from CTs, and 17 that don't. It's the Codex Creep, boys!
Yo GW that restriction on allies giving 1/2 of the command points sounds pretty good and fair wouldn't want GSC farming guard detachments for cheap CPs HOW ABOUT WE GET SOMETHING LIKE THAT ON EVERYONE.
Is everything really so bleak, when you look at Genestealer Cults?
1.) They die to a stiff breeze, as has already been pointed out.
2.) They are tyranid enhanced bio weapons to overthrow a planets population. So they damn well deserve to be en par with Space Marines in certain ways. Note that they are even not S4 T4.
3.) I find it nice that GW made the GSC an army with a distinct playstyle. Of course this also means they should be able to do, what no one else can.
4.) Why do we have to compare them to Space Marines at all? Most people agree that the Codex SM are currently one of the weakest armies out there. This might very well change in a couple of months, when a new Codex comes out.
Actually I only find the Gunslinger to be broken at the moment. And he is a suicidal weapon.
zamerion wrote: ]Cult Demagogue - Add 1 to hit rolls for attacks made by <Cult> units in the Fight phase whilst they are within 6" of any friendly <Cult> Primuses.
Meticulous Planner - The first time this model is set up on the battlefield, select one enemy unit on the battlefield. Re-roll wound rolls of 1 for attacks made by friendly <Cult> units that have the Cult Ambush ability whilst they are within 6" of this model when targeting that enemy unit
Metamorphs are basically unchanged from before, rules wise.
They are 9pts base, +1 for the talon, so 10pts base.
Goliath trucks + Rockgrinders:
Truck basic loadout (twin autocannon and heavy stubber) is 72, Rockgrinder basic (heavy stubber, heavy mining laser, drilldozer blade) is 105
Awesome news on both goliath and rockgrinder. Very glad both still seem to have a reason to exist, especially the base goliath which will be much improved by cult traits.
Actually I only find the Gunslinger to be broken at the moment. And he is a suicidal weapon.
Worse, he's potentially VPs waiting to happen for your opponent. He's pretty double edged in that regard. Stuff up your movement, and find you don't have LoS, and he's toast. But the reward is almost definitely worth the risk - even if it's just to get your opponent's characters running around the board like Benny Hill.
Astmeister wrote: Is everything really so bleak, when you look at Genestealer Cults?
1.) They die to a stiff breeze, as has already been pointed out.
2.) They are tyranid enhanced bio weapons to overthrow a planets population. So they damn well deserve to be en par with Space Marines in certain ways. Note that they are even not S4 T4.
3.) I find it nice that GW made the GSC an army with a distinct playstyle. Of course this also means they should be able to do, what no one else can.
4.) Why do we have to compare them to Space Marines at all? Most people agree that the Codex SM are currently one of the weakest armies out there. This might very well change in a couple of months, when a new Codex comes out.
Actually I only find the Gunslinger to be broken at the moment. And he is a suicidal weapon.
1.) Numbers. Guardsmen also die easily, Cultists also die easily, dosen't change the fact that they are annoying to deal with.
2.) Which are armed with mining tools and apparantly pistols and sniperrifles that are Dark age of technology style statted and are built in the lower underhive/ somewhere in a dugout in a forest on a backwater.
3.) MHM, we allready had armies that ignore core restrictions, mind you they tended to be a problem, alpha legion f.e. And whilest i agree that the distinction is good, i am still questioning the thought process on some of these rules.
4.) Because Codex SM is vannila flavour and one of the codexes which you can best show that codex creep is happening. You could also pick CSM. Same difference.
Astmeister wrote: Is everything really so bleak, when you look at Genestealer Cults?
1.) They die to a stiff breeze, as has already been pointed out.
2.) They are tyranid enhanced bio weapons to overthrow a planets population. So they damn well deserve to be en par with Space Marines in certain ways. Note that they are even not S4 T4.
3.) I find it nice that GW made the GSC an army with a distinct playstyle. Of course this also means they should be able to do, what no one else can.
4.) Why do we have to compare them to Space Marines at all? Most people agree that the Codex SM are currently one of the weakest armies out there. This might very well change in a couple of months, when a new Codex comes out.
Actually I only find the Gunslinger to be broken at the moment. And he is a suicidal weapon.
Also, do we know whether any of these new characters are Uniques or not? Some of them (like Keller) seem to be in the fluff, or maybe they're a "common cult form" and have the Unique keyword. If they are indeed what GSC get other than "Named Characters" then I'm much more willing to forgive them getting unique powerful stuff. After all, mortal tank commanders like Pask and Longstrike are better shots than space marine tank pilots, Iron Hand straken is stronger than a space marine, etc. And the "bike bimbo" (stay classy 4chan) would be more like the equivalent of Telion (whose sniper rifle is 4x better than a standard marine sniper rifle for some reason) than a random marine scout sniper.
TonyH122 wrote: Genestealers not getting faction traits seems odd to me. The cultists presumably get the abilities they do from sharing genetic material from the Patriarch, and genestealers are just another generation of cultists. But oh well.
The real issue then is that it further pushes people away from genestealers and towards Aberrants, and perhaps even Acolytes and Metamorphs after this change. And if they are still 15 points they perhaps seem not worth it. Given Nid stealers get the relevant hive fleet bonuses, I think you could justify GSC stealers also being 12 points, with their 'bonus' being ambush.
In fluff, cult abilities aren't genetic traits but reflect the fanatical beliefs of the cultists, steered in different ways according to the "flavour" of the cult. They get +1 advance or whatever because their religion convinces them to throw themselves forward as fast as possible, regardless of danger, health, logic or sanity.
Purestrains and Patriarchs don't actually believe in any of that nonsense, any more than the Emperor would pray to himself or L.Ron Hubbard ever worried about his thetan levels. No indoctrination/brainwashing means they don't gain these "supernatural" extra abilities. They are remorseless aliens so if they need to run faster, they just do it (in their profiles) and don't need to be convinced to by a Magus. They are happy to take the worship and play along because it suits their overall mission.
Fluff =/= rules. Ahriman and co literally rip appart whole squads of Custodes with a single psychic power in the burning of prospero books, yet they don't do so on the tabletop.
In the first Horus Heresy book the Lunar Wolves storm a stronghold of resistance manned by (essentially) guardsmen, equiped with Lasguns, Autoguns etc. They only brought 4 squads, killed over 1000 dudes and didn't lose a single one of their own. They were literally so invincible that they didn't even break stride. Yet on the tabletop the Autocannons that their Terminators simply shrugged off can kill a Termi in one shot.
In the fluff, everything is OP and over the top. "Realisticaly" we would have a few thousand Neophytes vs. a few squads of Space Marines.
And thoughts on the Ridgerunner costing 80p vs. Goliath costing 72p? Seems odd to me.
Causalis wrote: Fluff =/= rules. Ahriman and co literally rip appart whole squads of Custodes with a single psychic power in the burning of prospero books, yet they don't do so on the tabletop.
In the first Horus Heresy book the Lunar Wolves storm a stronghold of resistance manned by (essentially) guardsmen, equiped with Lasguns, Autoguns etc. They only brought 4 squads, killed over 1000 dudes and didn't lose a single one of their own. They were literally so invincible that they didn't even break stride. Yet on the tabletop the Autocannons that their Terminators simply shrugged off can kill a Termi in one shot.
In the fluff, everything is OP and over the top. "Realisticaly" we would have a few thousand Neophytes vs. a few squads of Space Marines.
And thoughts on the Ridgerunner costing 80p vs. Goliath costing 72p? Seems odd to me.
Keep in mind the RR has options and the 80p option is the one where it has 6+FNP and a mini-lascannon. Other weapon options in particular the mortar might make it cheaper.
It has 2 fewer wounds (without a degrading profile), 2 fewer toughness, but 4" more movement and a scout move at the beginning of the game meaning turn 1 it almost certainly will not have to move to gain a target.
I think what we will most likely end up seeing with the ridgeruners is the HML option used with the spotter (making it 30" range, you'll just scoot it up into cover and use it as a gunboat), the mortar used with the flaregun and the missile launcher used with the ignore cover array because MLs suffer from their low AP compared to other antitank weapons.
In most instances two autocannons aren't as good as a HML/Missile Launcher fighting tanks and the ridgerunner will benefit a lot from its not needing to move, instead getting to park itself somewhere good with its scout move, pair up with an Alphus Jackal and form a BS3+ firebase while your Goliaths will mostly be trying to get Neophyte squads within 12" to make use of their rapid fire weaponry so if you hit on 5s with its autocannons that's a nice bonus.
I hope the (at least seemingly) fair price point of the Ridgerunner heralds some point drops for the ork buggies in the March FAQ.
Also my looting eyes are looking at it like a fat juicy steak
TonyH122 wrote: Genestealers not getting faction traits seems odd to me. The cultists presumably get the abilities they do from sharing genetic material from the Patriarch, and genestealers are just another generation of cultists. But oh well.
The real issue then is that it further pushes people away from genestealers and towards Aberrants, and perhaps even Acolytes and Metamorphs after this change. And if they are still 15 points they perhaps seem not worth it. Given Nid stealers get the relevant hive fleet bonuses, I think you could justify GSC stealers also being 12 points, with their 'bonus' being ambush.
In fluff, cult abilities aren't genetic traits but reflect the fanatical beliefs of the cultists, steered in different ways according to the "flavour" of the cult. They get +1 advance or whatever because their religion convinces them to throw themselves forward as fast as possible, regardless of danger, health, logic or sanity.
Purestrains and Patriarchs don't actually believe in any of that nonsense, any more than the Emperor would pray to himself or L.Ron Hubbard ever worried about his thetan levels. No indoctrination/brainwashing means they don't gain these "supernatural" extra abilities. They are remorseless aliens so if they need to run faster, they just do it (in their profiles) and don't need to be convinced to by a Magus. They are happy to take the worship and play along because it suits their overall mission.
Fair enough, but still leaves Genestealers in an awkward spot rules wise.
Yeah. Since half the cults are melee focused, genestealers getting left out hurts those factions significantly.
Bladed cog seems strictly better than rusted claw, unless you really plan on bike spam.
Hivecult only really matters if you for some reason really care about morale, which this entire edition largely doesn't. I guess if you want to run big neophyte blobs for... reasons.
TonyH122 wrote: Fair enough, but still leaves Genestealers in an awkward spot rules wise.
I think the fact they can "naturally" move fast, advance, charge, and then hit hard in CC makes them as useful as any amount of <CULT> bonuses are likely to hand out to hybrids. The T4 5++ just makes up slightly from the resilience of larger numbers of cheaper hybrid models. So I think they still hold their own against cheaper, <CULT> boosted acolytes. I definitely wouldn't be happy if I thought taking Purestrains was penalising my army, as they are central to its theme.
Astmeister wrote: Is everything really so bleak, when you look at Genestealer Cults?
1.) They die to a stiff breeze, as has already been pointed out.
2.) They are tyranid enhanced bio weapons to overthrow a planets population. So they damn well deserve to be en par with Space Marines in certain ways. Note that they are even not S4 T4.
3.) I find it nice that GW made the GSC an army with a distinct playstyle. Of course this also means they should be able to do, what no one else can.
4.) Why do we have to compare them to Space Marines at all? Most people agree that the Codex SM are currently one of the weakest armies out there. This might very well change in a couple of months, when a new Codex comes out.
Actually I only find the Gunslinger to be broken at the moment. And he is a suicidal weapon.
1.) Numbers. Guardsmen also die easily, Cultists also die easily, dosen't change the fact that they are annoying to deal with.
2.) Which are armed with mining tools and apparantly pistols and sniperrifles that are Dark age of technology style statted and are built in the lower underhive/ somewhere in a dugout in a forest on a backwater.
3.) MHM, we allready had armies that ignore core restrictions, mind you they tended to be a problem, alpha legion f.e. And whilest i agree that the distinction is good, i am still questioning the thought process on some of these rules.
4.) Because Codex SM is vannila flavour and one of the codexes which you can best show that codex creep is happening. You could also pick CSM. Same difference.
Okay. You seem to have a problem of GSC being too strong or what is your problem exactly? I expect them to be pretty hard to master since they are all very squishy and cost more than standard guardsmen. But maybe I am wrong.
I've painted mine as Rusted Claw and thought that T4AE would probably get the best trait as they are the most "famous" cult. Plesently surprised that my cult trait is actually very good, since I regularly play with 50+ Neophytes and this helps them survive longer.
TonyH122 wrote: Fair enough, but still leaves Genestealers in an awkward spot rules wise.
I think the fact they can "naturally" move fast, advance, charge, and then hit hard in CC makes them as useful as any amount of <CULT> bonuses are likely to hand out to hybrids. The T4 5++ just makes up slightly from the resilience of larger numbers of cheaper hybrid models. So I think they still hold their own against cheaper, <CULT> boosted acolytes. I definitely wouldn't be happy if I thought taking Purestrains was penalising my army, as they are central to its theme.
Oh Genestealers are still good, no doubt. It just seems now that you're gimping yourself by not taking a Kraken patrol or battalion with them. One advances 3d6 for 12 points and can fall back and charge. The other gets ambush for +3pts. I don't think there's a contest at this stage of leaks.
How the hell did GSC get agents of Vect at the old original cost? If it needed to be patched to 4CP for DE I can't see how giving it to a faction that easily has double the CP for only 3CP makes sense.
Red Corsair wrote: How the hell did GSC get agents of Vect at the old original cost? If it needed to be patched to 4CP for DE I can't see how giving it to a faction that easily has double the CP for only 3CP makes sense.
Don't forget that it isn't limited to once per turn like Vect is as well.
I suspect that it went to print before the last round of FAQ's came out. This better be FAQ'd damn quick or some people are going to get very angry.
Red Corsair wrote: How the hell did GSC get agents of Vect at the old original cost? If it needed to be patched to 4CP for DE I can't see how giving it to a faction that easily has double the CP for only 3CP makes sense.
Don't forget that it isn't limited to once per turn like Vect is as well.
I suspect that it went to print before the last round of FAQ's came out. This better be FAQ'd damn quick or some people are going to get very angry.
Yea, I play both factions, so it isn't a bias thing. In GSC it is objectively better purely based on how they organize. It's so easy to get 20+ CP and with the new characters your almost guaranteed to regen one a turn. Your looking at ~30 CP over a game lol. That's 10 cancels, which obviously won't occur but holy crap lol.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Is there any GSC codex based HQ for the Brood Brothers? Ideally I would like a "pure" Brood Brothers detachment but no option seems available for HQ?
No, I think you'd have to have a "counts as" Primus and give him a commissar hat or something.
Understandable I guess, kind of hard to hide extra arms and genetic mutations under your Imperial garb when the higher ranking officials come visiting.
Red Corsair wrote: How the hell did GSC get agents of Vect at the old original cost? If it needed to be patched to 4CP for DE I can't see how giving it to a faction that easily has double the CP for only 3CP makes sense.
Don't forget that it isn't limited to once per turn like Vect is as well.
I suspect that it went to print before the last round of FAQ's came out. This better be FAQ'd damn quick or some people are going to get very angry.
Yet more excuses of "off to printers" which is garbage imo. The GSC stratagem uses the ERRATA'D wording from Agents of Vect from the big faq, therefore they simply decided not to make it 4CP.
Red Corsair wrote: How the hell did GSC get agents of Vect at the old original cost? If it needed to be patched to 4CP for DE I can't see how giving it to a faction that easily has double the CP for only 3CP makes sense.
Don't forget that it isn't limited to once per turn like Vect is as well.
I suspect that it went to print before the last round of FAQ's came out. This better be FAQ'd damn quick or some people are going to get very angry.
Yet more excuses of "off to printers" which is garbage imo. The GSC stratagem uses the ERRATA'D wording from Agents of Vect from the big faq, therefore they simply decided not to make it 4CP.
Yea, plus if they messed up because on timing/logistics it would be pretty idiotic to highlight it in the preview
Cataphract wrote: I was going to go Blades Cog but a 6++ Invul and Heavy Move+Shoot is kinda eh. Especially since I like the CC aspects of the GSC better.
Seems like Twisted Helix is better?
They are all good. Just pick one that suits your play style. For assault, helix, pauper or 4AE all seem good IMHO.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The frag drill terrain has potential btw. It's only 75pts and apparently indestructible. So you could take three from a fortification network and just vomit mortal wounds across the table. Unless it specifies otherwise you can hit characters too lol. Need to see the actual wording still, but that thing could be scary.
Red Corsair wrote: How the hell did GSC get agents of Vect at the old original cost? If it needed to be patched to 4CP for DE I can't see how giving it to a faction that easily has double the CP for only 3CP makes sense.
Most likely just because the time to print books in China and have them back to distribution centers the world over is usually longer than the 3-4 months since the fall FAQ.
Red Corsair wrote: How the hell did GSC get agents of Vect at the old original cost? If it needed to be patched to 4CP for DE I can't see how giving it to a faction that easily has double the CP for only 3CP makes sense.
Most likely just because the time to print books in China and have them back to distribution centers the world over is usually longer than the 3-4 months since the fall FAQ.
There is no way they would have featured a typo like this on the warhammer community site if they knew it was an error. At least not without mentioning something.
2.) Which are armed with mining tools and apparantly pistols and sniperrifles that are Dark age of technology style statted and are built in the lower underhive/ somewhere in a dugout in a forest on a backwater.
the_scotsman wrote:
Also, do we know whether any of these new characters are Uniques or not? Some of them (like Keller) seem to be in the fluff, or maybe they're a "common cult form" and have the Unique keyword. If they are indeed what GSC get other than "Named Characters" then I'm much more willing to forgive them getting unique powerful stuff. After all, mortal tank commanders like Pask and Longstrike are better shots than space marine tank pilots, Iron Hand straken is stronger than a space marine, etc. And the "bike bimbo" (stay classy 4chan) would be more like the equivalent of Telion (whose sniper rifle is 4x better than a standard marine sniper rifle for some reason) than a random marine scout sniper.
I don't think the profile represents purely the weapon in the waybthese comments are suggesting. Telion doesn't simply have a sniper that is 4x better, his skills are that much greater that he can get more out of a sniper rifle than an initiate. Sure, some of that skill is represented in Telion's profile, but you can only really adjust BS up to 2+, so how do you improve from there?
By giving them a unique weapon profile to show how dangerous they are with that weapon.
It is exactly the same with the GSC characters- the Jackal Alpha and the Kelermorph are innately superb shots, so they are able to get a lot more mileage out of basic equipment. That is why they have "dark age" stats on their stuff. A "liberator autostub" is only special in the hands of a Kelermorph. If a neophyte was using one, it would just be a decent hand cannon. Same with the Atalan sniper- that is how good the sniper rifle is when used by a gene-bred alien specialist who can reliably make headshots. If guardsmen Bob was using it, it would probably just be a standard sniper rifle!
Red Corsair wrote: How the hell did GSC get agents of Vect at the old original cost? If it needed to be patched to 4CP for DE I can't see how giving it to a faction that easily has double the CP for only 3CP makes sense.
Most likely just because the time to print books in China and have them back to distribution centers the world over is usually longer than the 3-4 months since the fall FAQ.
Again, The GSC stratagem uses the ERRATA'D wording from Agents of Vect from the big faq, therefore they simply decided not to make it 4CP.
Red Corsair wrote: How the hell did GSC get agents of Vect at the old original cost? If it needed to be patched to 4CP for DE I can't see how giving it to a faction that easily has double the CP for only 3CP makes sense.
Most likely just because the time to print books in China and have them back to distribution centers the world over is usually longer than the 3-4 months since the fall FAQ.
Again, The GSC stratagem uses the ERRATA'D wording from Agents of Vect from the big faq, therefore they simply decided not to make it 4CP.
To be fair, they could've tidied up the wording before this was sent to print, but not decided to adjust the cost of the Vect strategem until after this was sent off, but before the Erratas were published.
Red Corsair wrote: How the hell did GSC get agents of Vect at the old original cost? If it needed to be patched to 4CP for DE I can't see how giving it to a faction that easily has double the CP for only 3CP makes sense.
Most likely just because the time to print books in China and have them back to distribution centers the world over is usually longer than the 3-4 months since the fall FAQ.
Again, The GSC stratagem uses the ERRATA'D wording from Agents of Vect from the big faq, therefore they simply decided not to make it 4CP.
To be fair, they could've tidied up the wording before this was sent to print, but not decided to adjust the cost of the Vect strategem until after this was sent off, but before the Erratas were published.
Then it still is silly to feature it isn't it lol.
Again, The GSC stratagem uses the ERRATA'D wording from Agents of Vect from the big faq, therefore they simply decided not to make it 4CP.
Sure. I am just guessing. Sometimes it’s just different. Rigorous playtesters decided Grey Knights only pay half the CP for “Only in Death..” than all other Marines and that’s just the way it is /shrug
Really though I hate the fact its Four Armed Emperor. Giving certain chapters essential, bordering on faction-defining stratagems continues to be bad design. I mean maybe the others have equally good abilities - but I doubt it. I mean I guess at least +1 to advance on charge on the turn you appear isn't amazing - although its certainly not bad, especially if it can be buffed further.
Also not sure what GW were thinking with those paint jobs. Some of the worst in a long, long time - its like being back to 2014-15 or so when things were falling to bits. The Bladed Cog and Twisted Helix looks like something I'd have put together before I realised the colour wheel is a thing.
Some of them aren't too bad, they just shouldn't have used the traditional purple flesh/blue carapace in conjunction. Bladed cog painter was obviously feeling nostalgic for second edition, with a darker base color and some shading that wouldn't be awful.
PiñaColada wrote: Am I the only one who finds the Twisted Helix mint colour hella fresh?
i will try to make 2 brigade detachaments.
One with 6+ units of 10 neophytes with heavy stubbers and grenade launchers, and 3 units of bikes, this detachament will be rusted claw for sure.
The other detachament will have 6 units of acolytes in ambush, and I'm doubting between twisted helix or four armed emperor.. The +1 S its very interesting but charge with +2 and rerolling charges (clamavus + vigilius) its really good.
optrgrow wrote: GSC vect is not 4cp more than likely due to dark elders ability to soup stronger units with elder and ynarii. That would be my guess anyway.
Tyranids still exist. And we do not know the full extent of the AM they can use. No SD though, so I guess none of the Vigilus stuff will work on BB Detachments... Darn.
This far, GSC can soup pretty nastily if they want.
The surprises around this release just keep coming. 3CP Vect huh? I mean how can they not expect news like this to generate some buzz. Maybe this just the marketing team doing its job.
The hype/anti-hype is wild. So many great models. So many strong rules. So much potential salt.
If anything some meta shifts in the competitive scene will be welcome. Worth the wait for sure.
I'm hoping it's a year of gap-filling, and possibly alternate body sprues for the existing gangs. Heck, I'd even be happy with all-resin gang expansions.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I'm hoping it's a year of gap-filling, and possibly alternate body sprues for the existing gangs. Heck, I'd even be happy with all-resin gang expansions.
Voss wrote: I wouldn't expect those to change (haven't they shown up in other armies?), though that means they'll stay kinda bad.
I don’t think either weapon has shown up in any other army, although I believe they are choices in necromunda. In any event, that’s a shame if they don’t do anything to improve it, as it’s a cool weapon and it’s current rules suck.
Voss wrote: I wouldn't expect those to change (haven't they shown up in other armies?), though that means they'll stay kinda bad.
I don’t think either weapon has shown up in any other army, although I believe they are choices in necromunda. In any event, that’s a shame if they don’t do anything to improve it, as it’s a cool weapon and it’s current rules suck.
Yeah, I feel like since the 7th ed Everythings-Coming-Up-Grav debacle GW is really overly cautious about giving any new weapon type a decent role. The 8th ed rules for pretty much any weapon outside the "Classic" weapon types is just utter garbage.
Web guns
Admech arc guns
Grav guns
necron tesla guns
Unless something is just a very slight variation on a basic gun type (oh it's a new "gets hot' weapon that's plasma by another name, oh it's an autohit weapon that is called an Incineratoriator instead of a Flamer) you can pretty much assume its rules are going to be crap to avoid people losing their minds and accusing GW of invalidating their existing stuff.
Neophytes could really use a mini-plasma anti elite weapon as a special. It'd be neat if it were like an anti elite flamer, maybe D3 autohits instead of D6, but it wounds like a poison weapon against non-vehicles and its AP goes up as the target's toughness goes up.
That's one of the things that flustered me the most with regards to the Transauranic Arquebus. It went from being a highly situational vehicle bustin' tool...to just being "Meh".
Webbers have the old classic "shredder problem." The unit they're made to fight just plain old doesn't exist.
For the uninitiated, a webber is either a D3 (pistol) or D6 (gun) shot weapon with fairly low strength that does not autohit, and has a special rule where it can wound either against a target's toughness OR a target's strength.
Here's the problem with that:
Off the top of your head, name a common unit with differing strength and toughness values that it would be efficient to go after with a S4 Ap- D1 weapon. One where you wouldn't rather just have a high damage special weapon.
Kanluwen wrote: That's one of the things that flustered me the most with regards to the Transauranic Arquebus. It went from being a highly situational vehicle bustin' tool...to just being "Meh".
I'd argue they're pretty good post CA. 22 points per sniper with that profile ain't bad IMO, have 4 snipers in 2 different groups just on backfield objectives and they can be quite scary for buffing characters trying to get across the field
in terms of what the unit does, basically the webber should ideally fill some kind of high-AP anti elite role, to pair with the power pick loadout on the neophyte leader. That way you've got a few different builds:
"Anti tank sappers" - Mining lasers, maybe GLs, autoguns
"Close combat anti-infantry" - banner, leader with chainsword, flamers, shotguns
"Anti-light vehicle/elite shooters" - Seismic Cannons, Grenades, autoguns
"Close range anti elite" - shotguns, and here's where you'd take webbers.
If everything were pointed appropriately you'd have a role for each option in the kit. Hence why I'd like to see its unique mechanic grant it extra AP - but maybe instead of the traditional anti-elite role of spiking in value against MEQ, it could spike in value against T5+ targets and be a monster hunter weapon you could pair with mining lasers.
Haighus wrote: Ork boyz. A grenade launcher or flamer are still probably better choices.
Maybe they need to make webbers slow the target down or something- tangle up the unit. Give them a niche outside the current orthodoxy.
Nope. S4 T4.
Sure but when webbers were introduced in 7th ork boyz were strength 3, so I could kinda see it then. Mostly it's a reprint weapon from 2nd edition/rouge trader. Currently the only common unit I can think of is Wracks. I agree webbers kind of stink, they should have auto hit like flamers and halved/reduced charge distances or something like that.
Extra AP just seems odd for, well, a webber. Its basically intended to apprehend criminals and the like right? But repurposed for combat. So why would it be best against heavily armoured infantry?
Admech Sicarians (infiltrators or ruststalkers) are S4 T3 but if I understand webbers correctly they would need it to be the other way around for that special rule to work..
Marine bikers have S4 and T5 so they are wounded on 4+ rather than 5+
Aeldari bikers have S3 and T4 so they are wounded on 3+ rather than 4+ Same goes for the soon to be released GSC bikers of course.
That is definitely not enough to make me want to ever buy the webber. I'd guess that a grenade launcher causes nearly the same nr of average wounds on those targets.
Haighus wrote: Extra AP just seems odd for, well, a webber. Its basically intended to apprehend criminals and the like right? But repurposed for combat. So why would it be best against heavily armoured infantry?
True. I think mostly I want it to be an anti-elite weapon to differentiate it from the Flamer, since they only have 3 special weapon choices it seems silly to have 2 dedicated anti-infantry and one that is optionally anti-infantry.
I suppose another concept could be "the opponent gets a chance to slice themselves out of the web as it tightens, instead of making a normal save against the attack, the target rolls a single close-combat attack and if they hit, they do not take a wound". So it works better against clumsy targets with poor weapon skill. Then just make that ability not work on vehicles.
Orodhen wrote: Wouldn't the webber help against Death Guard and their higher Toughness?
Theoretically yes, in practice there don't seem to be any targets the webber is better at fighting than a flamer/GL.
Krak grenade does more damage against any biker/DG because of higher str/multi-wound, flamer does more vs wracks because it autohits rather than having to roll to hit.
There are plenty of ways you could spin the webber to give it a role (heh. Spin the webber. Not intentional but I'm not changing it).
-It's a gun for kidnapping people! Make it ignore character protection, why not. Still more of a role than it currently has and kidnapper squads of neophytes would be hilarious for trolling invincible Company Commanders and Primaris Psykers and the like.
-it's a gun you need to be fast/skillful rather than tough to get out of. Make it wound based on weapon skill/move somehow.
-It's a gun good for bringing down large targets by tangling them up. Make it poisonous or poison-esque.
Orodhen wrote: Wouldn't the webber help against Death Guard and their higher Toughness?
Marginally. A grenade launcher with krak is probably better, though. Fewer shots (probably) but an even better chance to wound and an AP modifier as well.
Several of the GSC weapons have questionable utility (seismic) and often the classics are better or a more viable point cost.
The new codex will have an additional wrinkle on Brood Brothers, since they lack any cult bonus (and have to deal with the weapon team penalty - squishy 2w model with bad save).
An interesting point to see will be ridgerunners vs sentinels as weapon platforms. Or chimeras to be honest.
Ray's twitter will sooner or later also show off some of the other cool stuff you can do with this kit, as he's done in the past with the city and industrial kits.
BrookM wrote: Ray's twitter will sooner or later also show off some of the other cool stuff you can do with this kit, as he's done in the past with the city and industrial kits.
Purestrains will not benefit from gene-sect cult creeds.
There is a warlord trait that lowers damage recieved by 1 (to a minimum of one)
Relic: Amulet of the void wurm, +1 to armour and invulnerable saving throws. And no shooting overwatch at you.
The allied AM brood brothers spearhead detachment was not put into cult ambush. Everything from the GSC detachment(s) was either blips or in deepstrike, and that part was definitely more than half the points value.
Allied AM brood brother vehicles can not transport gsc-units.
(No new units were used. The GSC player brought their own models and did not have access to the new stuff.)
BrookM wrote: Ray's twitter will sooner or later also show off some of the other cool stuff you can do with this kit, as he's done in the past with the city and industrial kits.
That article is already by him (more or less, or transcribed from some notes he sent to the warcom guys).
Mellon wrote: Things I learned from the twitch.tv stream today:
Return to the shadows, works as it used to. 1CP
Purestrains will not benefit from gene-sect cult creeds.
There is a warlord trait that lowers damage recieved by 1 (to a minimum of one)
Relic: Amulet of the void wurm, +1 to armour and invulnerable saving throws. And no shooting overwatch at you.
The allied AM brood brothers spearhead detachment was not put into cult ambush. Everything from the GSC detachment(s) was either blips or in deepstrike, and that part was definitely more than half the points value.
Allied AM brood brother vehicles can not transport gsc-units.
(No new units were used. The GSC player brought their own models and did not have access to the new stuff.)
What did I miss?
I like that relic for a Patriarch. My old school mack daddy even has the amulet already!
Those blips are nice, but I went in for the big $200 numbered limited edition last time and I probably don't need to do that again. I might stick with the collector's edition.
Those blips are nice, but I went in for the big $200 numbered limited edition last time and I probably don't need to do that again. I might stick with the collector's edition.
Those blips are nice, but I went in for the big $200 numbered limited edition last time and I probably don't need to do that again. I might stick with the collector's edition.
that edition is too good to pass though :p
The last one was valid for about a year. I could be a little bitter about that inside.
Those blips are nice, but I went in for the big $200 numbered limited edition last time and I probably don't need to do that again. I might stick with the collector's edition.
that edition is too good to pass though :p
The last one was valid for about a year. I could be a little bitter about that inside.
second codex ... would look great next to the 7th SE
Edit: ... on closer look the special edition looks amazing
Spoiler:
Wow those blips look incredible. Sealed the deal for me, gonna try and grab the special edition. Any more pics? Do you know what the cards in the box are also? Are they the tactical objectives?
Please can someone clarify this for me: cAn cult ally in baneblade variants ie shadowsword via brood brothers. There’s a lot of conflicting mess in this
Skalathrax8 wrote: Please can someone clarify this for me: cAn cult ally in baneblade variants ie shadowsword via brood brothers. There’s a lot of conflicting mess in this
Far as we know - yes. You'd lose half a CP though*...?
* Which effectively rounds up to 1, as you can't spend half CP.
Skalathrax8 wrote: Please can someone clarify this for me: cAn cult ally in baneblade variants ie shadowsword via brood brothers. There’s a lot of conflicting mess in this
Far as we know - yes. You'd lose half a CP though*...?
* Which effectively rounds up to 1, as you can't spend half CP.
Yup so just take a supreme command detachment since it is only 1cp anyways. Plus if you take 3 company commanders they should have the correct keywords to be able to order the brood brothers around.
Edit: ... on closer look the special edition looks amazing
Spoiler:
Wow those blips look incredible. Sealed the deal for me, gonna try and grab the special edition. Any more pics? Do you know what the cards in the box are also? Are they the tactical objectives?
Going to be honest with you, that book and those counters look cheap, though the counters are slightly better than the book just based on the rader effect being visible from the side. Though the obvious marks from the die cutter and the chipping on the top counter in the rear stack take away from that a fair bit.
But the book? Ugh. As someone who spent too many years working in bookstores and libraries, I can tell what they were going for, but they cut a lot of corners to do it. The textured cover is going to lose the writing and symbols over time, and those gold corners are cheap, fragile and visibly loose, even in the photo. And you can clearly see the warp in the binding compared to the pages in multiple places. It's just a shoddy piece of work.
Mellon wrote: Things I learned from the twitch.tv stream today:
Purestrains will not benefit from gene-sect cult creeds.
Tell me that is a mistake. Really? Genestealers in the Genestealer cult codex don't have a faction trait...really?
In other news Meganobs not orks, Tac Marines not astartes and Eldar shuriken weapons nerfed by increasing their range by 12".
Seriously though is that just someone making a mistake or is that true?
Purestrains dont really show up to meetings or work well with the infiltrations or cult chain of command. They are mechanically auxillaries to the cult force, while in the nid codex the hive mind brings them in line. Meganobz are a bad example, but see flash gitz who dont get klan traits unless in a freeboota detachment, or kroot or ratlings, who dont get sept or regiment bonuses respectively.
What you cannot order all the modells at once?! I need them all at the same time in the corner of my living room to not paint them. When will Games Workshop understand?!
Wow, only 800 copies for the Collector's edition? So over half the people stopped buying collector's editions then? My god $300 Canadian for it? No wonder they are not selling.
How long is this going to last, 8 months or so like the last one?
Yup, IMO you have to be a little crazy or rich to order those editions. They rarely have an active life of 2 years (or even less as Davor noted with the GSC 7th edition codex) and do not retain anything like their initial value. But more power to those that have the expendable income to buy them if they want.
Pre order wise I went for the vanilla codex, Jackals, Locus and a box of neophytes. I can see, at least, a couple of Ridgerunners in my future.
I was thinking it might be possible to spread the female heads from the outrider kit around, but there are definite female and male torsos among the minis. Might be odd to put those heads on male bodies...
I really want the Jackal Alpha but at for £22.50 (not a surprising price) I just can't bring myself to bite because
all this lot is £32.50 (a pretty darn good price for what you get), so an extra £10 gives me an extra 3 bikers and a Quad so I guess I'll need to do some converting
My budget is only $150, so I am going to stick with the codex, Jackal Alphus and something else, as yet undecided what it will be. Guess I’ll just go the shop and probably impulse buy something!
Symbio Joe wrote: What you cannot order all the modells at once?! I need them all at the same time in the corner of my living room to not paint them. When will Games Workshop understand?!
All the models at once? Just need to requisition those ridge runners for the Imperial Guard. Maybe the bikers as rough riders too, in which case may get them parted out as I wouldn't need the quad. What self respecting hobbyist limits piles of unfinished models to just the living room. Amateurs! Amateurs I tell you.
Hmmmm. Return to Taros could use a drill too.....being all about the mining.
It seems that the genestealers are affected by the "CULT" keyword..
Apparently not. It's hard to find because he struggles to keep the book on a relevant page (or fit a text block under the camera when he's talking about it) and rambles and skips around in an incredibly disorganized fashion, but the last sentence of Cult Creeds is 'doesn't work on purestrains'
I can't work out why they are switching back to the equivalent of Chapter Tactics not working on vehicles - they did not let Marines have them on theirs - then gave everyone else them - but now with this and Sisters Beta they are stopping them again. They need to be a bit more consistant....
... damn those cheap, fragile,and visibly loose gold corners sure do sell
Edit:
regarding CA ... latest article says:
A few of you have got in touch this week to ask how the Ambush marker deployment mechanic works in matched play games.
We just wanted to clear up that the intent is certainly that you can deploy your entire Genestealer Cults army using Ambush markers if you like – in any type of game. Any and all units that have the Cult Ambush special rule can take advantage of this, though you still can’t start with more than half your army underground. Not even the Genestealer Cults are that sneaky!
Deploying using Ambush marker is a very thematic, though fairly unusual, mechanic, and it does throw up the odd question on specific interactions with some other deployment rules. Don’t worry – these will be covered in a designer’s commentary in a few weeks. For now – enjoy the new codex!
One of the review sites said the bikes have to be augmented in units of 4 (i.e., you can't buy a second box and only add 1, 2 or 3 dirtbikes to a unit). Can anyone confirm?
I had hoped to use one of the bikers to convert to the alpha but sounds like GW may have figured out that folks would try that.
privateer4hire wrote: One of the review sites said the bikes have to be augmented in units of 4 (i.e., you can't buy a second box and only add 1, 2 or 3 dirtbikes to a unit). Can anyone confirm?
I had hoped to use one of the bikers to convert to the alpha but sounds like GW may have figured out that folks would try that.
Yup, unit size is 4, 8 and 12 with an additional quad for each four bikes. At least the boxed set makes sense.
There are no "generic" faction rules for any army in the game. All armies must pick a set of faction rules they draw from (as long as they qualify...). But as said, you can choose to paint your army to align with the faction rules, or just pick whatever works for your own unique faction.
privateer4hire wrote: One of the review sites said the bikes have to be augmented in units of 4 (i.e., you can't buy a second box and only add 1, 2 or 3 dirtbikes to a unit). Can anyone confirm?
I had hoped to use one of the bikers to convert to the alpha but sounds like GW may have figured out that folks would try that.
Yup, unit size is 4, 8 and 12 with an additional quad for each four bikes. At least the boxed set makes sense.
Is that by powerlevel or is that also in matched play? That seems odd for 40k.
Being able to buy an extra bike as an extra wound or having to buy four bikes just to have the one seems kinda restrictive. I hope they're fairly cheap in points if you have to buy four at a time, no discussion.
privateer4hire wrote: One of the review sites said the bikes have to be augmented in units of 4 (i.e., you can't buy a second box and only add 1, 2 or 3 dirtbikes to a unit). Can anyone confirm?
I had hoped to use one of the bikers to convert to the alpha but sounds like GW may have figured out that folks would try that.
Yup, unit size is 4, 8 and 12 with an additional quad for each four bikes. At least the boxed set makes sense.
So you can't just have a squad of 5 or 6 bikes? You have to add them in groups of 4? Is this is matched play as well, or just Power Level stuff?
Sorry gents, that is indeed PL , text is"this unit includes 1 Atalan Leader and 3 Atalan Jackals. It can include 4 additional Atalan Jackals (power rating +3) or 8 additional Atalan Jackals (+6 PL.)".
Then for every 4 Jackals and or leaders you can add a Wolfquad. On the video review above the datasheet is shown at the 1 hour 39 minute mark.
Only the leader can take an autogun(???), Bolt pistol or power axe and only one grenade launcher per 4 Jackals.
privateer4hire wrote: One of the review sites said the bikes have to be augmented in units of 4 (i.e., you can't buy a second box and only add 1, 2 or 3 dirtbikes to a unit). Can anyone confirm?
I had hoped to use one of the bikers to convert to the alpha but sounds like GW may have figured out that folks would try that.
Yup, unit size is 4, 8 and 12 with an additional quad for each four bikes. At least the boxed set makes sense.
So you can't just have a squad of 5 or 6 bikes? You have to add them in groups of 4? Is this is matched play as well, or just Power Level stuff?
It says "The unit contains 1 Atalan Leader and 3 Atalan Jackals. It can include 4 additional Atalan Jackals (power rating +3) or 8 additional Atalan Jackals (power rating +6). For every four Atalan Jackals and/or Atalan Leaders in the unit it can include one Atalan Wolfquad (power rating +2 per model)"
Most units have the wording "It can include up to X additional..." but not the Atalans.
privateer4hire wrote: One of the review sites said the bikes have to be augmented in units of 4 (i.e., you can't buy a second box and only add 1, 2 or 3 dirtbikes to a unit). Can anyone confirm?
I had hoped to use one of the bikers to convert to the alpha but sounds like GW may have figured out that folks would try that.
Yup, unit size is 4, 8 and 12 with an additional quad for each four bikes. At least the boxed set makes sense.
So you can't just have a squad of 5 or 6 bikes? You have to add them in groups of 4? Is this is matched play as well, or just Power Level stuff?
Well that is how AoS works but I would be shocked to see them turn it towards 40k. Pretty sure that must be for power level.
privateer4hire wrote: One of the review sites said the bikes have to be augmented in units of 4 (i.e., you can't buy a second box and only add 1, 2 or 3 dirtbikes to a unit). Can anyone confirm?
I had hoped to use one of the bikers to convert to the alpha but sounds like GW may have figured out that folks would try that.
Buy a Jackals box set amongst a group. Add sniper rifle from the bits box.
Boom! Four gamers have an Alpha.
Dice off for the quad!
GW hopefully realise why the overpriced Alpha isn't selling????
privateer4hire wrote: One of the review sites said the bikes have to be augmented in units of 4 (i.e., you can't buy a second box and only add 1, 2 or 3 dirtbikes to a unit). Can anyone confirm?
I had hoped to use one of the bikers to convert to the alpha but sounds like GW may have figured out that folks would try that.
Buy a Jackals box set amongst a group. Add sniper rifle from the bits box.
Boom! Four gamers have an Alpha.
Dice off for the quad!
GW hopefully realise why the overpriced Alpha isn't selling????
So GW logic would mean to increase the price f the Jackals box set then.
So, genestealer cult infantry does not suffer the -1 to hit for moving and firing heavy weapons. How is that possible that some mutated weirdos can do that better than SM ? Not even SM veterans, or dev squads get this. Those genestealer heavy weapons are probably improvised rock grinder tools, yet they can do it better than SM with real weapons ? WTF ? On top of that a model probably will only cost 7 points, and you can get 20 of them, to protect those weapons from losing them. Even better, for 1CP they can return slain D6 models to a troop choice unit, for free, no reinforcement points needed
It's honestly not that big a deal or hard to justify, its not like the very few units we have that benefit from that are going to do anything spectacular with that ability.
And it makes sense from a fluff perspective, but that's not the point of this thread.
So what's the price on the Ridgerunner going to be, I'm thinking 50$
Kharne the Befriender wrote: It's honestly not that big a deal or hard to justify, its not like the very few units we have that benefit from that are going to do anything spectacular with that ability.
And it makes sense from a fluff perspective, but that's not the point of this thread.
So what's the price on the Ridgerunner going to be, I'm thinking 50$
shinros wrote: Hmmm are there generic cult creed options? Seems kinda strange they don't have a table for those who want to run a generic cult.
Probably best to think of the rules less as representing a specific cult, but more as archetypes depending on there background or home world with the named cult being an example of the type.
p5freak wrote: I know, but it doesnt matter. Its ridiculous that they even have those abilities.
Any more ridiculous than what Space Marines get? If you want to go fluff wise, you should only be playing with 5 maybe 10 Spacemarines MAX. Spacemarines get so much that they shouldn't be either. Were you crying foul when Spacemarines were getting all the goodies in previous editions and others were not?
shinros wrote: Hmmm are there generic cult creed options? Seems kinda strange they don't have a table for those who want to run a generic cult.
Probably best to think of the rules less as representing a specific cult, but more as archetypes depending on there background or home world with the named cult being an example of the type.
Yeah, that's what my mindset is now leaning towards. Thing is I only play chaos and there is a renegade legion choice so I was thrown off here.
p5freak wrote: So, genestealer cult infantry does not suffer the -1 to hit for moving and firing heavy weapons. How is that possible that some mutated weirdos can do that better than SM ? Not even SM veterans, or dev squads get this. Those genestealer heavy weapons are probably improvised rock grinder tools, yet they can do it better than SM with real weapons ? WTF ? On top of that a model probably will only cost 7 points, and you can get 20 of them, to protect those weapons from losing them. Even better, for 1CP they can return slain D6 models to a troop choice unit, for free, no reinforcement points needed
This just in. The hive mind is better at genetic enginering then the emperor.
Danny76 wrote: I see seven different arm sets in the unit.
Looks like the same configurations as the TaC box, which is good. They're cool models and you can make some semi-varied poses, and even more with some creative cutting and greenstuff.
You won't be able to build a whole team of Aberrant with 1 type of weapon from the kit. Some model use the same weapon bits. So if one was built with the hammer, the other had to take pick.
Danny76 wrote: I see seven different arm sets in the unit.
Looks like the same configurations as the TaC box, which is good. They're cool models and you can make some semi-varied poses, and even more with some creative cutting and greenstuff.
Chopstick wrote: You won't be able to build a whole team of Aberrant with 1 type of weapon from the kit. Some model use the same weapon bits. So if one was built with the hammer, the other had to take pick.
I hadn't noticed that, but looking at the instructions it seems you're right. That's disappointing.
Unfortunate that we don't have the rest of the weapon list. I am particularly curious about whether the heavy seismic cannon got any upgrades (since the regular one had its damage output increased by 50%, and the HML got its damage output doubled) and whether the clearance incinerator got a boost because the atalan incinerator is known to be its old statline.
I am also curious what the heavy mortar on the ridgerunner does.
Also, apparently increasing the strength of your flamer from 3 to 4 is worth six times as much to GW.
Astmeister wrote: Heavy Mortar: S5 AP -1 D 1 can target non visible units
Clearance Incinerator: Heavy 2D6, S5 AP-1 D1
I think the heavy seismic canon is something like this:
Heavy 6 S4 -1 D2
Heavy 3 S8 -2 D3
Oh that is very nice. If the prices stay the same/similar I'm right pleased with the clearance incinerator buff. Heavy mortar is trash, seems like the only way to even try to run the ridgerunner is a stationary lascannon boat, which is disappointing, but I'm not about to pay 63pts for something that has effectively 2 heavy stubbers and 1 heavy bolter with no transport capacity. And people say the boomdakka snazzwagon's damage output is disappointing!
pleased to see the ridgerunner is the same price as the ork buggies rather than edged up a bit
thanks! have you got aos prices too?
No, the GW rep gave them to him early (normally they provide the list on Wednesday) as he was ordering so much cult stuff and no doubt hopes he'll do the same for this lot
In the codex a start collecting GSC box is mentioned. It says something like "The army in the picture is comprised of a SCGSC box" and it shows Neos, Acos, a Goliath and a Primus.
Astmeister wrote: Heavy Mortar: S5 AP -1 D 1 can target non visible units
Clearance Incinerator: Heavy 2D6, S5 AP-1 D1
I think the heavy seismic canon is something like this:
Heavy 6 S4 -1 D2
Heavy 3 S8 -2 D3
Oh that is very nice. If the prices stay the same/similar I'm right pleased with the clearance incinerator buff. Heavy mortar is trash, seems like the only way to even try to run the ridgerunner is a stationary lascannon boat, which is disappointing, but I'm not about to pay 63pts for something that has effectively 2 heavy stubbers and 1 heavy bolter with no transport capacity. And people say the boomdakka snazzwagon's damage output is disappointing!
The link above says that the clearance incinerator is 30 points. Sound quite expensive to me, but it is also a good weapon now.
The ridgerunners might be usefull with an Atalan Jackal for +1 to hit. I mean they are from their rules just bloated scout sentinels with everything more. So you should not expect wonders from them. On the other hand the D3 las cannon shoots can very well kill a tank in one round. That is not to be underestimated. And in comparison to the rock grinder it does not need to move, since it does not transport anything.
aracersss wrote: primus without patriarch or magus? ... are they getting individual releases?
They can't be released separately as they're all on the same sprue...
Spoiler:
I wonder...maybe they've got a new Primus model that they're putting into that set? We did see a new Magus released as an individual blister just for that purpose.
BrookM wrote: €35,- is a bit steep for the Achilles, but damn it, kinda want one.
I'd argue that it's reasonably priced and makes the Ork buggies look way overpriced.
The whole Start Collecting comment has me VERY interested to see any pictures relating to it now.
I mean, as someone who very frequently uses the ork buggies, I gotta disagree with that sentiment. The only two buggies the ridgerunner outperforms are the snazzwagon (arguably pays for -1 to hit, burna bombs and the ability to actually move around and fire its weapons) and the squigbuggy...which....gold star for that, lol. A wet fart in a paper bag outperforms the squigbuggy.
The lascannon variant is 40 points less than the shokkjump dragsta, which gets 25% more damage vs vehicles, the ability to move and fire its weapons, and clan traits (which can be +1 to hit, super-salamander hit wound and damage reroll+obsec+6++, or reroll 1s to hit, ridgerunner doesn't get cult traits). I'd take the shokkjump over the lascannon ridgerunner any day, the ridgerunner gets to move 9" once and then it better be within 24" of every target its ever going to want to shoot for the rest of the game.
I'd REALLY rather take a skrapjet over the lascannon ridgerunner, since it gets double the stubber shots, the same anti-tank output, the ability to move and shoot, clan traits, and it's a space marine with a chainfist in melee with bonus mortal wounds on the charge.
The KBB really fills a different role. It's tough to compare a stationary gunline vehicle with an anti-tank gun with a vehicle with an anti-light vehicle gun that also has 4d3 flamer shots strapped onto it.
BrookM wrote: €35,- is a bit steep for the Achilles, but damn it, kinda want one.
I'd argue that it's reasonably priced and makes the Ork buggies look way overpriced.
The whole Start Collecting comment has me VERY interested to see any pictures relating to it now.
I mean, as someone who very frequently uses the ork buggies, I gotta disagree with that sentiment. The only two buggies the ridgerunner outperforms are the snazzwagon (arguably pays for -1 to hit, burna bombs and the ability to actually move around and fire its weapons) and the squigbuggy...which....gold star for that, lol. A wet fart in a paper bag outperforms the squigbuggy.
The lascannon variant is 40 points less than the shokkjump dragsta, which gets 25% more damage vs vehicles, the ability to move and fire its weapons, and clan traits (which can be +1 to hit, super-salamander hit wound and damage reroll+obsec+6++, or reroll 1s to hit, ridgerunner doesn't get cult traits). I'd take the shokkjump over the lascannon ridgerunner any day, the ridgerunner gets to move 9" once and then it better be within 24" of every target its ever going to want to shoot for the rest of the game.
I'd REALLY rather take a skrapjet over the lascannon ridgerunner, since it gets double the stubber shots, the same anti-tank output, the ability to move and shoot, clan traits, and it's a space marine with a chainfist in melee with bonus mortal wounds on the charge.
The KBB really fills a different role. It's tough to compare a stationary gunline vehicle with an anti-tank gun with a vehicle with an anti-light vehicle gun that also has 4d3 flamer shots strapped onto it.
We're talking about the price of the physical model...I'd say it makes them look overpriced with the fact that the Orks are single-build but same price.
After all the Jackal Alpha looks like she is a 
