Do you really belive that we will get free FAQs to download?
Guessing he means codex faqs.
Why give away updates when they can charge you for a new codex in a couple of years?
While we all agree that GW is doing us a disservice by charging us for their product, they released FAQ's for the codices after the last edition came out, no reason to think they won't now, besides glorious pessimism.
Did the burning chariot's rules get fixed? I heard you can move and shoot with it now in the new rules. Can someone check?
Yes, Chariot riders always count as stationary for firing any weapon the rider is equipped with.
The Chariot rules got quite a few other little massages, like immobilize results counting as stunned, the rider never being able to disembark, and seem to have lost their universal sweep attack. There's quite a bit more as well. Definitely one of the things that was changed the most.
Did the burning chariot's rules get fixed? I heard you can move and shoot with it now in the new rules. Can someone check?
Yes, Chariot riders always count as stationary for firing any weapon the rider is equipped with.
The Chariot rules got quite a few other little massages, like immobilize results counting as stunned, the rider never being able to disembark, and seem to have lost their universal sweep attack. There's quite a bit more as well. Definitely one of the things that was changed the most.
Being a big fan of the burning chariot i really appreciate that they finally fixed this!
I've just been reading the Psyker perils of the warp table- D6 Result of 1 is kinda amusing and at the same time painful! D6 Hits at S6 AP1 to the rest of the unit lol
Apologies, not sure where this should actually go but i wrote a review on A Galaxy Of War comparing it with its resepctive sections in 6th Edition. Ill get round to the other books in the next couple of days.
Apologies, not sure where this should actually go but i wrote a review on A Galaxy Of War comparing it with its resepctive sections in 6th Edition. Ill get round to the other books in the next couple of days.
thanks thats a nice review although you could have included more pics (and for some reason your pics look extremely greyscaled)
Apologies, not sure where this should actually go but i wrote a review on A Galaxy Of War comparing it with its resepctive sections in 6th Edition. Ill get round to the other books in the next couple of days.
thanks thats a nice review although you could have included more pics (and for some reason your pics look extremely greyscaled)
Camera phone my friend! Straight to Dropbox and then to blog.
I shall take some replacement photos with my better camera and include more in the review. thanks for the feedback!
Apologies, not sure where this should actually go but i wrote a review on A Galaxy Of War comparing it with its resepctive sections in 6th Edition. Ill get round to the other books in the next couple of days.
The big squad with a nob assaults a single Daemon Prince with a bunch of attacks that has a higher initiative (all of them have a higher initiative than orks) The Daemon Prince makes a challenge. Two choices.
1. Accept. The nob gets killed and the excess wounds kill a few more boyz. The boys cannot attack or engage the prince.
2. refuse. The only guy with a real chance to hurt the Prince can't attack it.
That was why I asked about Monstrous creatures.
So they didn't fix this, they actually made it worse, and they didn't fix anything in assault.
The big squad with a nob assaults a single Daemon Prince with a bunch of attacks that has a higher initiative (all of them have a higher initiative than orks) The Daemon Prince makes a challenge. Two choices.
1. Accept. The nob gets killed and the excess wounds kill a few more boyz. The boys cannot attack or engage the prince.
2. refuse. The only guy with a real chance to hurt the Prince can't attack it.
That was why I asked about Monstrous creatures.
So they didn't fix this, they actually made it worse, and they didn't fix anything in assault.
The boyz in the first situation will maul down on the prince. If the unit has no other target it can attack the challenger. The prince hurling a challenge is actually perfectly fluffy, it is him that ignores the orks looking for the big one. So he rolls against his AC and can hurt only him until he is death, but the other orks can slap him freely.
The boyz in the first situation will maul down on the prince. If the unit has no other target it can attack the challenger.
Doesn't save the challenger. Your Nob will die and then wounds from the prince will spill down onto the Boyz, so in fact you would sustain more wounds. The subsequent turn, you're without a Power Klaw and all your Boyz are strength 3.
If your on the fence about buying it I would wait until there is a seperate rules only volume. As it is I'm probably going to bin the other two volumes and slipcase just to save my bookcase some pain.
SilentScreamer wrote: I may just stick to 5th/6th edition instead of buying 7th edition, I don't play the game actively enough to be bothered to spend yet another £40.
Thanks for sharing?
So exploded vehicles are str4 hits both inside and outside of vehicles(transport). That's a cool change.
Apologies, not sure where this should actually go but i wrote a review on A Galaxy Of War comparing it with its resepctive sections in 6th Edition. Ill get round to the other books in the next couple of days.
Thanks very much, I like your style.
What I don't like... the book ... wow that's horrible.
The big squad with a nob assaults a single Daemon Prince with a bunch of attacks that has a higher initiative (all of them have a higher initiative than orks) The Daemon Prince makes a challenge. Two choices.
1. Accept. The nob gets killed and the excess wounds kill a few more boyz. The boys cannot attack or engage the prince.
2. refuse. The only guy with a real chance to hurt the Prince can't attack it.
That was why I asked about Monstrous creatures.
So they didn't fix this, they actually made it worse, and they didn't fix anything in assault.
The boyz in the first situation will maul down on the prince. If the unit has no other target it can attack the challenger. The prince hurling a challenge is actually perfectly fluffy, it is him that ignores the orks looking for the big one. So he rolls against his AC and can hurt only him until he is death, but the other orks can slap him freely.
actually you cant HIT into a challenge, you can have excess wounds spill into it, but you cant hit a model thats in a challenge whilst outside it
The boyz in the first situation will maul down on the prince. If the unit has no other target it can attack the challenger.
Doesn't save the challenger. Your Nob will die and then wounds from the prince will spill down onto the Boyz, so in fact you would sustain more wounds. The subsequent turn, you're without a Power Klaw and all your Boyz are strength 3.
What i read on some of the leaks,... The Slugga has a +1Str. and a AP4 ,... but thats just rumors,..
Nice written review. Dashed some of my hopes for the quality of the new book set, but I'm still probably going to buy it.
Sorry to pick on you, dude, but why!? If it's not an optimum product and it's non-essential, why purchase it? That tells GW that this is acceptable, that you are prepared to pay money for something substandard. If that's the case then what incentive do they have to produce things that aren't disappointing?
'I'll probably buy it anyway' or variations thereof, crops up all over various threads here and over on B&C, quite often after some seriously negative or disparaging comments about a new product or GW in general. It's a sort of cognitive dissonance that baffles me, as the company (any company) doesn't read your rant on a message board, it focuses on sales and profit margins. So, if you're displeased in any way, send them a message where it counts, don't vent and then do exactly what they want you to do.
sockwithaticket wrote: Sorry to pick on you, dude, but why!? If it's not an optimum product and it's non-essential, why purchase it? That tells GW that this is acceptable, that you are prepared to pay money for something substandard. If that's the case then what incentive do they have to produce things that aren't disappointing?
The "non-essential" book is part of a 3 book set with the core rules in one of the other books. You kinda have to buy it to get the rules to play 7th (excluding Jolly Rogering means that shall not be discussed).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sir Arun wrote: So if characters lose precision shots, can no longer "delay" an enemy killing machine from massacring their squad, what is their use again?
I can't say I saw anyone excited at the stomping ground about buying the rules. However, there's a con going on so less of a turn out for Friday Night Dice Rollin'.
sockwithaticket wrote: Sorry to pick on you, dude, but why!? If it's not an optimum product and it's non-essential, why purchase it? That tells GW that this is acceptable, that you are prepared to pay money for something substandard. If that's the case then what incentive do they have to produce things that aren't disappointing?
The "non-essential" book is part of a 3 book set with the core rules in one of the other books. You kinda have to buy it to get the rules to play 7th (excluding Jolly Rogering means that shall not be discussed).
They'll bring out a rules-only book. I'll happily eat my hat if they don't, but they will. At which point the 3 book set is non-essential. It may be a few months, but having done it with 6th I can't see why they wouldn't with 7th. It will probably help entice those who aren't sold on 7ths new direction if they don't have to buy the 3 book set to take part.
sockwithaticket wrote: Sorry to pick on you, dude, but why!? If it's not an optimum product and it's non-essential, why purchase it? That tells GW that this is acceptable, that you are prepared to pay money for something substandard. If that's the case then what incentive do they have to produce things that aren't disappointing?
The "non-essential" book is part of a 3 book set with the core rules in one of the other books. You kinda have to buy it to get the rules to play 7th (excluding Jolly Rogering means that shall not be discussed).
They'll bring out a rules-only book. I'll happily eat my hat if they don't, but they will. At which point the 3 book set is non-essential. It may be a few months, but having done it with 6th I can't see why they wouldn't with 7th. It will probably help entice those who aren't sold on 7ths new direction if they don't have to buy the 3 book set to take part.
And how long will that take? Because right now I'm not hearing a single rumor saying it'll be "soon".
I think regardless of the changes GW make to the rules, they'll not be able to please everyone. If you don't like it, fair enough. I think people should really try playing with the ruleset before damning it.
**Clockwork- it's been out less than 24hrs?! You'll just have to wait like everyone else.
And how long will that take? Because right now I'm not hearing a single rumor saying it'll be "soon".
Fair point, but it really comes down to what's more important to you: possess the new rules on day one or start encouraging GW to make decisions and products you're pleased with in the only way that you can. If it's the former then by all means, carry on.
Of course you can always go the ebook route, saving £10. Not entirely clear if that includes all 3 books, but either way you're getting it cheaper without having to provide shelf-space for something like the glorified White Dwarf.
angelofvengeance wrote: I think regardless of the changes GW make to the rules, they'll not be able to please everyone. If you don't like it, fair enough. I think people should really try playing with the ruleset before damning it.
**Clockwork- it's been out less than 24hrs?! You'll just have to wait like everyone else.
I own a copy of the full set right now.
I was just saying that there doesn't seem to be a "rules only" version coming in the near future, so chastising people for picking up the full set, even if they don't want/like the compilation books (which used to be inside the same book as people seem to forget, so it's not like they're saddling you with unnecessary stuff without warning (it's a feature not a bug at this point), just making it so you don't have to take EVERYTHING with you to play) is a bit silly.
And how long will that take? Because right now I'm not hearing a single rumor saying it'll be "soon".
Fair point, but it really comes down to what's more important to you: possess the new rules on day one or start encouraging GW to make decisions and products you're pleased with in the only way that you can. If it's the former then by all means, carry on.
Of course you can always go the ebook route, saving £10. Not entirely clear if that includes all 3 books, but either way you're getting it cheaper without having to provide shelf-space for something like the glorified White Dwarf.
I review new 40k releases, so for me day one is important. And I get it from my FLGS whenever possible to support them over just handing my money over to GW directly.
Ok, cool, so for you the priority is having it day one. However, for the person who isn't doing a review, feels displeased with what they see and hear, but still says they'll buy it anyway, I still have to ask why. It just makes very little sense to me.
GW has already completed all FAQs, it can be found in the section of the rule book that covers resolving rules questions with a die roll. 1-3 your right 4-6 im right
GW has already completed all FAQs, it can be found in the section of the rule book that covers resolving rules questions with a die roll. 1-3 your right 4-6 your left
Since weapons are resolved "one at a time" now, per profile, could I fire a Melta gun from my BSS at a Rhino, blow it up, and then shoot my flamer/bolters at the contents that spill out?
Since weapons are resolved "one at a time" now, per profile, could I fire a Melta gun from my BSS at a Rhino, blow it up, and then shoot my flamer/bolters at the contents that spill out?
I too am troubled that shooting no longer being simul will be gamed, often.
The big squad with a nob assaults a single Daemon Prince with a bunch of attacks that has a higher initiative (all of them have a higher initiative than orks) The Daemon Prince makes a challenge. Two choices.
1. Accept. The nob gets killed and the excess wounds kill a few more boyz. The boys cannot attack or engage the prince.
2. refuse. The only guy with a real chance to hurt the Prince can't attack it.
That was why I asked about Monstrous creatures.
So they didn't fix this, they actually made it worse, and they didn't fix anything in assault.
The boyz in the first situation will maul down on the prince. If the unit has no other target it can attack the challenger. The prince hurling a challenge is actually perfectly fluffy, it is him that ignores the orks looking for the big one. So he rolls against his AC and can hurt only him until he is death, but the other orks can slap him freely.
actually you cant HIT into a challenge, you can have excess wounds spill into it, but you cant hit a model thats in a challenge whilst outside it
Ok that's quite a weird wording. It can be interpreted as both:
1) You can't do anything to a challenge going on if you don't have some grunts to punch badly and magically hurt the challenger or
2) Even if there are no grunts the units is still engaged and still fights. The enemy AC is the one of majority, so the challenger's one. Same for resistance. The wounds cannot be assigned to grunts so they go to the challenger. Actually this seems like the most probable RAI, but they could have done it much better.
Since weapons are resolved "one at a time" now, per profile, could I fire a Melta gun from my BSS at a Rhino, blow it up, and then shoot my flamer/bolters at the contents that spill out?
Nope, unless your first shot is split fire I suppose. A unit can only shoot at one unit per shooting phase
Sir Arun wrote: So if characters lose precision shots, can no longer "delay" an enemy killing machine from massacring their squad, what is their use again?
But back to the New rules, I read that Storm Boys can assult Flyers, As long as they move 18" (Granted its a rumer, but can all Jump packs do that now?
Since weapons are resolved "one at a time" now, per profile, could I fire a Melta gun from my BSS at a Rhino, blow it up, and then shoot my flamer/bolters at the contents that spill out?
No, you have to resolve all the weapons from the same unit at the same target.
But back to the New rules, I read that Storm Boys can assult Flyers, As long as they move 18" (Granted its a rumer, but can all Jump packs do that now?
According to the rules for Flyers they can never be assaulted (unless they're Hovering because then they're fast skimmers).
Seriously though, no change. Not that it matters, what made the Baledrake so damn good was it's 360 Fire Arc. At least it can't Vector Strike squads to death anymore.
Sir Arun wrote: So if characters lose precision shots, can no longer "delay" an enemy killing machine from massacring their squad, what is their use again?
Um, same uses they had for 4 editions prior?
Err...no? Every previous edition they had different uses.
Last edition you could give them a plasma pistol and if you rolled a 6, you could allocate the shot. And they could martyr themselves in a challenge to buy the squad time to run away or last a little longer in cc.
Pre-previous edition if you gave them a power fist, they would keep killing stuff till all other squad mates died.
All armies must be Battleforged
No Demonology powers.
No Come the apocalypse allies.
Primary Detachment is restriced to 1 FOC per 1999+1
You may take an Allied detachment from the same codex.
Warp charges are capped to 12.
Seriously though, no change. Not that it matters, what made the Baledrake so damn good was it's 360 Fire Arc. At least it can't Vector Strike squads to death anymore.
So now Helldrakes no longer have 360° arc anymore, right? Because they were FAQd to have it, and that FAQ was written for 6th edition, and 6th edition is gone.
I don't think you can ban Daemonology powers because I'm willing to bet Grey Knights are going to get Errata'd into only having Santic powers instead of codex ones.
And Come the Apocalypse allies are NOT broken. They have extra restrictions for deployment and follow the rules for "One Eye Open". You can't deathstar with them, they can't buff their allies and generally banning them is frankly idiotic.
And capping Warp Charges is frankly stupid. Go back some pages and look at the math for how powers work. It is a LOT harder to manifest powers now and you NEED those Warp Charges to be even half as useful as you used to in previous editions with Psykers. Plus the more tokens they use the greater the chance that they'll suffer a Perils of the Warp which is not exactly good for them.
Seriously though, no change. Not that it matters, what made the Baledrake so damn good was it's 360 Fire Arc. At least it can't Vector Strike squads to death anymore.
So now Helldrakes no longer have 360° arc anymore, right? Because they were FAQd to have it, and that FAQ was written for 6th edition, and 6th edition is gone.
So now Helldrakes no longer have 360° arc anymore, right? Because they were FAQd to have it, and that FAQ was written for 6th edition, and 6th edition is gone.
They still do, the FAQ applies to the codex not the rule book, and the codex is still valid.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wilson wrote: What are peoples plans for house ruling 7th?
so far we have agreed;
All armies must be Battleforged
No Demonology powers.
No Come the apocalypse allies.
Primary Detachment is restriced to 1 FOC per 1999+1
You may take an Allied detachment from the same codex.
Warp charges are capped to 12.
Sounds like you guys should just keep playing 6th edition then
Something tells me i should start constructing a Vault for all my Older Rulebooks , 6 Fantasy's, and 5 40k Rulebooks. ohh, and my Chapter Approved's i also baught, and my 17 Army Books
Capping Warp Charge might be silly, I agree. I could barely get anything done with 11 dice, and that was with an almost average Warp Charge roll, a Level 4 and three Level 1's. So if someone has Ahriman, a 2nd Sorcerer HQ and some aspiring sorcerers, they can't go over Warp Charge 12? Hmmm. It's *your* group, not mine, so I support you.
If the community at large starts capping Warp Charge, let's worry about bigger fish- Like how people actually have enough models for 1000-2000pts of new demons throughout the game. You know damn well a majority of the people attempting to get away with that will have just legs glued on bases. I see demon-conjuration spam as a non-issue at my store, but for those of you unfortunate enough to be stuck with players like that I say this: Just refuse to play. It is a better fix than just outright banning demonology or capping warp charge. Rabblerabblerabble
Just thinking out loud. My thoughts are rarely consolidated properly.
So now Helldrakes no longer have 360° arc anymore, right? Because they were FAQd to have it, and that FAQ was written for 6th edition, and 6th edition is gone.
They still do, the FAQ applies to the codex not the rule book, and the codex is still valid.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wilson wrote: What are peoples plans for house ruling 7th?
so far we have agreed;
All armies must be Battleforged
No Demonology powers.
No Come the apocalypse allies.
Primary Detachment is restriced to 1 FOC per 1999+1
You may take an Allied detachment from the same codex.
Warp charges are capped to 12.
Sounds like you guys should just keep playing 6th edition then
agreed, you've pretty much house ruled out 7th edition
So now Helldrakes no longer have 360° arc anymore, right? Because they were FAQd to have it, and that FAQ was written for 6th edition, and 6th edition is gone.
They still do, the FAQ applies to the codex not the rule book, and the codex is still valid.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wilson wrote: What are peoples plans for house ruling 7th?
so far we have agreed;
All armies must be Battleforged
No Demonology powers.
No Come the apocalypse allies.
Primary Detachment is restriced to 1 FOC per 1999+1
You may take an Allied detachment from the same codex.
Warp charges are capped to 12.
Sounds like you guys should just keep playing 6th edition then
essentially, yeah. but we are taking the more positive rules implemented in 7th.
You will be deeply saddened if you come up against 3000 points worth of demons in an 1850 point game.
Especially if that game is taking you 3+ hours.
I may be blowing it out of proportion as i've not had a game yet- but from the people that have played a couple of games... well lets just say they where pretty bummed out by the time the game finished .
Wilson wrote: What are peoples plans for house ruling 7th?
so far we have agreed;
All armies must be Battleforged
No Demonology powers.
No Come the apocalypse allies.
Primary Detachment is restriced to 1 FOC per 1999+1
You may take an Allied detachment from the same codex.
Warp charges are capped to 12.
Dude why bother investing in 7th ed at all? Y'all should just keep playing 6th... Would kind of suck to be an Ork player in your group if you do decide to just play 6th but still you have literally just house ruled out all of the major changes of 6th to 7th...
I don't understand how people will be surprised by 3000pts of demons in an 1850pt game.. You know what you're getting into if you accept a game against that person.
Brometheus wrote: I don't understand how people will be surprised by 3000pts of demons in an 1850pt game.. You know what you're getting into if you accept a game against that person.
i also dont understand why everyone seems to assume this is going to happen.
Just saying. If you play a game against someone who attempts to do it, whether it's possible or not, ya do it to yourself. I see it as a non-issue. I've already tried out the psychic phase and good luck summoning those demons. You'd better throw lots of dice, cause I could barely get any ML 3 powers off.
Brometheus wrote: I don't understand how people will be surprised by 3000pts of demons in an 1850pt game.. You know what you're getting into if you accept a game against that person.
i also dont understand why everyone seems to assume this is going to happen.
I think he means, it is kind of hard to hide 3000pts of demon models, so it is easy to pick out the people you don't want to play with
But yeah, it won't happen often, and they'll end up being "That Guy" in gaming circles, and won't get play
That person would need to have 3k points worth of deamons put together and painted before I even considered playing against them anyway. There are no bare plastic legs glued to bases or "these guardsmen are pink horrers" allowed in my games anyway so it would literally take years to be able to field that many conjured deamons anyway.
Exactly. I'm just saying, everyone is worried that demons will wreck the game because an Unbound list with 20 Farseers will summon X amount of lesser demons and greater demons. C'mon. Why are you playing that player in the first place?
People outside of tournaments have been picking and choosing opponents already. It will continue
Im normally not to concerned about people having the right models but I think id have an issue if someone pulled out some nonsense for a ton of daemons, then again, you shouldn't need houserules for your gaming group to not pull that sort of bs
rothrich wrote: That person would need to have 3k points worth of deamons put together and painted before I even considered playing against them anyway. There are no bare plastic legs glued to bases or "these guardsmen are pink horrers" allowed in my games anyway so it would literally take years to be able to field that many conjured deamons anyway.
Wilson wrote: What are peoples plans for house ruling 7th?
so far we have agreed;
All armies must be Battleforged
No Demonology powers.
No Come the apocalypse allies.
Primary Detachment is restriced to 1 FOC per 1999+1
You may take an Allied detachment from the same codex.
Warp charges are capped to 12.
Dude why bother investing in 7th ed at all? Y'all should just keep playing 6th... Would kind of suck to be an Ork player in your group if you do decide to just play 6th but still you have literally just house ruled out all of the major changes of 6th to 7th...
I'd be playing a balanced version of 40k that is in between 6th and 7th.
One which has a good hack at disallowing unsportsmanlike combo's that where dominating tournaments in 6th edition and also cages the upcoming new meta.
I imagine some people will really like the free spirit of the new 40k but as a player who has been around since 3rd edition I like to have a little bit of control.
Wilson wrote: What are peoples plans for house ruling 7th?
so far we have agreed;
All armies must be Battleforged
No Demonology powers.
No Come the apocalypse allies.
Primary Detachment is restriced to 1 FOC per 1999+1
You may take an Allied detachment from the same codex.
Warp charges are capped to 12.
Dude why bother investing in 7th ed at all? Y'all should just keep playing 6th... Would kind of suck to be an Ork player in your group if you do decide to just play 6th but still you have literally just house ruled out all of the major changes of 6th to 7th...
I'd be playing a balanced version of 40k that is in between 6th and 7th.
One which has a good hack at disallowing unsportsmanlike combo's that where dominating tournaments in 6th edition and also cages the upcoming new meta.
I imagine some people will really like the free spirit of the new 40k but as a player who has been around since 3rd edition I like to have a little bit of control.
I'm with you to an extent wilson, I don't really want to start getting into the mucky muck of messing too much with the brb, but I do feel the foc has been raped pretty throughly and we're all being forced to play some perverted form of apocalypse, so we need formatting, no question. Here's my thoughts:
It creates a firewall between the 1 army concept of 3-5 and the "everyone play apocalypse and join the race to the bottom, your wallet belongs to jervis and kirby, armies are lame cool people use collections" trend we've been seeing. I will fully admit it does nothing to fix imbalance between codex's but it's a step in the right direction. Makes communication less daunting and rife with politics, bruised egos and hurt feelings.
1500pts: 1 force org, 1 detachment, 1 codex (let's call it 40k classic)
1850-2000pts: allies, fortifications (and all the crazy detachment nonsense)
2000-2999pts: super heavies, super mega monstrous creatures, formations knight titans ect
++Space Marines Allied Detachment++
=ULTRAMARINE TACTICS+
-Tigurius
-5x Sniper Scouts
-4x Dev Cents (Grav Cannons, Omni Scope)
Welcome to 7E. Home of the double Death Star.
I don't understand your point. Are you a "competitive" player or a "casual" player or something in between? Because anyone other than a hard core power gamer would never field an army like that. If you are a hard core power gamer than you should be excited at the prospect of having the opportunity to come up with the most hardcore powerfull list of all times. What is the problem?
We're going to start organizing rules councils again now. We're carefully looking at the new parts and see which will make it in our meta and which aren't.
Unbound and double FOC are out already, all tournaments will only use the previous tournament missions, no Maelstrom of course. Come the Apocalypse allies are banned. Point limit is likely to stay 1850 or 1999+1.
The rest will be invidually tested. Essential, 7th is just an update to 6th and not a new edition by itself, so most changes are single rules. Which is good. Less work and stuff.
Having everything able to score or not is a very debated topic right now.
++Space Marines Allied Detachment++ =ULTRAMARINE TACTICS+ -Tigurius -5x Sniper Scouts -4x Dev Cents (Grav Cannons, Omni Scope)
Welcome to 7E. Home of the double Death Star.
I don't understand your point. Are you a "competitive" player or a "casual" player or something in between? Because anyone other than a hard core power gamer would never field an army like that. If you are a hard core power gamer than you should be excited at the prospect of having the opportunity to come up with the most hardcore powerfull list of all times. What is the problem?
What type of gamer he is has NO effect on the pool of opponents in his local area. How "balanced" his army is and how well he as a player follows the fluff has no bearing on the chance that his ONLY choice of an opponent at his local store is fielding the same and not a "bend over" WAAC list that this new edition not just allows but encourages. I frequently only find one person to game against at my FLGS and I fully expect that in this edition I'll have to eventually choose between wasting my time driving 25 miles to the store or wasting my time playing against an unbound monstrosity of an army that I don't stand a fair chance against with my battleforged list. I guess the solution to that is to BUY MOAR! to cheese out my own instead of the theme of 1-2 of each entry that I went with all those years ago when building most of my forces.
Sigvatr wrote: We're going to start organizing rules councils again now. We're carefully looking at the new parts and see which will make it in our meta and which aren't.
Unbound and double FOC are out already, all tournaments will only use the previous tournament missions, no Maelstrom of course. Come the Apocalypse allies are banned. Point limit is likely to stay 1850 or 1999+1.
The rest will be invidually tested. Essential, 7th is just an update to 6th and not a new edition by itself, so most changes are single rules. Which is good. Less work and stuff.
Having everything able to score or not is a very debated topic right now.
++Space Marines Allied Detachment++
=ULTRAMARINE TACTICS+
-Tigurius
-5x Sniper Scouts
-4x Dev Cents (Grav Cannons, Omni Scope)
Welcome to 7E. Home of the double Death Star.
I don't understand your point. Are you a "competitive" player or a "casual" player or something in between? Because anyone other than a hard core power gamer would never field an army like that. If you are a hard core power gamer than you should be excited at the prospect of having the opportunity to come up with the most hardcore powerfull list of all times. What is the problem?
So GW is off the hook because we can just call each other names and label each other into compliance? Thekbob is making a damn fine point and that is that 7th didn't really address death stars and in the case of the list he just posted, actually helped in some cases to make them even more viable and or potent than before.
Sigvatr wrote: We're going to start organizing rules councils again now. We're carefully looking at the new parts and see which will make it in our meta and which aren't.
Unbound and double FOC are out already, all tournaments will only use the previous tournament missions, no Maelstrom of course. Come the Apocalypse allies are banned. Point limit is likely to stay 1850 or 1999+1.
The rest will be invidually tested. Essential, 7th is just an update to 6th and not a new edition by itself, so most changes are single rules. Which is good. Less work and stuff.
Having everything able to score or not is a very debated topic right now.
How many detachments is too many?
Oh, "double FOC" referred to taking anything but the regular FOC. 1 FOC, as usual, not allowed to take more than one.
I don't understand your point. Are you a "competitive" player or a "casual" player or something in between? Because anyone other than a hard core power gamer would never field an army like that. If you are a hard core power gamer than you should be excited at the prospect of having the opportunity to come up with the most hardcore powerfull list of all times. What is the problem?
I am a tournament gamer that would like a better balanced game. I personally love the thematic "elite strike force" that Death Stars bring, however they are usually not balanced properly like other games. The risk reward exists, but that dual Death Star list effectively mitigates any risk that one would normally have in playing such a list.
I'm a competitive player who wishes that there was zero distinction between competitive and casual lists, essentially. I believe a balanced game makes everyone just "players" with no further distinction necessary.
Sigvatr wrote: We're going to start organizing rules councils again now. We're carefully looking at the new parts and see which will make it in our meta and which aren't.
Unbound and double FOC are out already, all tournaments will only use the previous tournament missions, no Maelstrom of course. Come the Apocalypse allies are banned. Point limit is likely to stay 1850 or 1999+1.
The rest will be invidually tested. Essential, 7th is just an update to 6th and not a new edition by itself, so most changes are single rules. Which is good. Less work and stuff.
Having everything able to score or not is a very debated topic right now.
How many detachments is too many?
Oh, "double FOC" referred to taking anything but the regular FOC. 1 FOC, as usual, not allowed to take more than one.
So GW is off the hook because we can just call each other names and label each other into compliance? Thekbob is making a damn fine point and that is that 7th didn't really address death stars and in the case of the list he just posted, actually helped in some cases to make them even more viable and or potent than before.
Glad I only play at a GW so I can actually try out some games of 7th without worrying about people doing knee-jerk changes without really giving it a chance.
++Space Marines Allied Detachment++
=ULTRAMARINE TACTICS+
-Tigurius
-5x Sniper Scouts
-4x Dev Cents (Grav Cannons, Omni Scope)
Welcome to 7E. Home of the double Death Star.
No really, please field this list against mine. I've never lost a game against Draigo star, I really don't see the appeal in it.
Between my DE pouring buckets of wounds on it and skirmishing back each time they move, the one time I had an Ork Shokk Attak Gun wipe out half the unit in one shot, and the hilarity of watching that try to last against a squadron of Leman Russ Executioners/Demolishers, plasma/melta vets and more, I've more than gotten over any fear of that particular deathstar.
And lol, Vindicare. "I'll snipe your SE/Shadowfield!" you croak. Well, if I'm playing SM, my Thunderfire cannon, Devastators, Storm Talons, and hiding the CM from LOS appropriately can all rip him to pieces before that happens. If I'm playing DE, frankly lol. One 2x SC Venom can ruin the Vindicare's day.
Dev Cent stars aren't really intimidating to my Ork hordes, my Guardsmen hordes, my tank squadrons, or my DE as a whole. Against my Marines, I just won't give you any infantry to shoot at - even if it means reserving them.
Your troops are garbage outside of the Draigostar and would be obscenely lucky to reach the middle of the board, much less my side.
Loopstah wrote: Glad I only play at a GW so I can actually try out some games of 7th without worrying about people doing knee-jerk changes without really giving it a chance.
Don't bet on it. Didn't GWHQ nitially not allow their own escalation, stronghold, and FW products in their own event sometime earlier this year? They recanted when the embarassing story started making news.
Loopstah wrote: Glad I only play at a GW so I can actually try out some games of 7th without worrying about people doing knee-jerk changes without really giving it a chance.
Yeah agreed, it sounds like a lot of these people would be really boring to play with. Glad my crew tends to play for fun.
Loopstah wrote: Glad I only play at a GW so I can actually try out some games of 7th without worrying about people doing knee-jerk changes without really giving it a chance.
To call them knee jerk is frankly insulting, it assumes the players and forum members don't have thought behind their motivations which is factually incorrect, in fact many of them have shared their reasons FOR the changes they would make. Perhaps you could support WHY you think the specific changes they've suggested would not be advisable.
Mr.Omega wrote: No really, please field this list against mine. I've never lost a game against Draigo star, I really don't see the appeal in it.
Between my DE pouring buckets of wounds on it and skirmishing back each time they move, the one time I had an Ork Shokk Attak Gun wipe out half the unit in one shot, and the hilarity of watching that try to last against a squadron of Leman Russ Executioners/Demolishers, plasma/melta vets and more, I've more than gotten over any fear of that particular deathstar.
And lol, Vindicare. "I'll snipe your SE/Shadowfield!" you croak. Well, if I'm playing SM, my Thunderfire cannon, Devastators, Storm Talons, and hiding the CM from LOS appropriately can all rip him to pieces before that happens. If I'm playing DE, frankly lol. One 2x SC Venom can ruin the Vindicare's day.
Dev Cent stars aren't really intimidating to my Ork hordes, my Guardsmen hordes, my tank squadrons, or my DE as a whole. Against my Marines, I just won't give you any infantry to shoot at - even if it means reserving them.
Your troops are garbage outside of the Draigostar and would be obscenely lucky to reach the middle of the board, much less my side.
That's all quite presumptive. I played my Draigowing cold at a GT and went 4-2. I'm not a slouch player. I wouldn't so easily allow you to get First Blood off the Vindicare, even reserving him for later if necessary.
Since we're going for the ideal scenario, you won't be able to gundown my Paladinstar as you will only be snapfiring at it. I can easily table you with any other prospect as I have the sheer inertia of two death stars. I can thin out hordes with the paladins and handle any heavy threat with centurions. Both are beasts in H2H with the proper buffs dispensed.
My little ML1 Psykers have little risk for perils if I just 1 Dice their pie plate spells, which will also thin the hordes quite well, too.
So don't be so quite presumptive. You sound awfully cocky when these style of Death Stars have been winning GTs for the past year where as everything you're suggesting has not.
Loopstah wrote: Glad I only play at a GW so I can actually try out some games of 7th without worrying about people doing knee-jerk changes without really giving it a chance.
To call them knee jerk is frankly insulting, it assumes the players and forum members don't have thought behind their motivations which is factually incorrect, in fact many of them have shared their reasons FOR the changes they would make. Perhaps you could support WHY you think the specific changes they've suggested would not be advisable.
You do realise 7th was released today right? I'd say making big changes to anything the day it was released is a knee-jerk reaction. I understand a few people got books earlier but even so it seems more a "OMG change, burn it with fire!" than actually playing an adequate number of trial games to see if perceived problems are actually real problems.
Loopstah wrote: Glad I only play at a GW so I can actually try out some games of 7th without worrying about people doing knee-jerk changes without really giving it a chance.
To call them knee jerk is frankly insulting, it assumes the players and forum members don't have thought behind their motivations which is factually incorrect, in fact many of them have shared their reasons FOR the changes they would make. Perhaps you could support WHY you think the specific changes they've suggested would not be advisable.
i think his knee jerk comment is more to do with people making rules changes without actually playing any 7th edition games
Loopstah wrote: Glad I only play at a GW so I can actually try out some games of 7th without worrying about people doing knee-jerk changes without really giving it a chance.
To call them knee jerk is frankly insulting, it assumes the players and forum members don't have thought behind their motivations which is factually incorrect, in fact many of them have shared their reasons FOR the changes they would make. Perhaps you could support WHY you think the specific changes they've suggested would not be advisable.
i think his knee jerk comment is more to do with people making rules changes without actually playing any 7th edition games
I'm liking plenty of the rules changes from 6th to 7th, none of which would be effected by basic formatting and re-introducing the relevlance of force organization. Liking that barrage wounding works better isn't likely to have an effect on my dislike for super heavies, fortification and allies, things I dislike for the entirety of 6th. I don't know wht a number changing from 6th to 7th should have me giving crap I never liked to begin with a fair shake. That's not knee jerk at all, that basic common sense.
I don't understand how people can be house ruling a game that came out yesterday, without actually playing any games. While the intrawebz has often forecast the apocalypse pending the release of every edition of 40k since 3rd, very rarely does the stuff imagined on the web actually see the table.
Sure, anecdotally you might hear about 3000 points of demons, or kneeling wraithlords, or 50 3-man acolyte squads, or 24 ghazkhuls as an army, but I expect to never actually see one. Much like the loch ness monster.
I'm interested to see how it all plays out, and play a number of games before making any decision about balance or house rules, or whatever.
I'm liking plenty of the rules changes from 6th to 7th, none of which would be effected by basic formatting and re-introducing the relevlance of force organization. Liking that barrage wounding works better isn't likely to have an effect on my dislike for super heavies, fortification and allies, things I dislike for the entirety of 6th. I don't know wht a number changing from 6th to 7th should have me giving crap I never liked to begin with a fair shake. That's not knee jerk at all, that basic common sense.
If you didn't use things in 6th then not using them in 7th makes sense. Banning something like Daemonology when we don't even know which psykers (maybe not every Psyker in every army) can actually use it until we get FAQ clarification is an example of a knee-jerk reaction.
Until everyone is up on all the changes and is testing armies built for 7th against each other (as 6th optimised builds may be less effective against one optimised for 7th) then making changes is more based on fear than reality.
The big squad with a nob assaults a single Daemon Prince with a bunch of attacks that has a higher initiative (all of them have a higher initiative than orks) The Daemon Prince makes a challenge. Two choices.
1. Accept. The nob gets killed and the excess wounds kill a few more boyz. The boys cannot attack or engage the prince.
2. refuse. The only guy with a real chance to hurt the Prince can't attack it.
That was why I asked about Monstrous creatures.
So they didn't fix this, they actually made it worse, and they didn't fix anything in assault.
The boyz in the first situation will maul down on the prince. If the unit has no other target it can attack the challenger. The prince hurling a challenge is actually perfectly fluffy, it is him that ignores the orks looking for the big one. So he rolls against his AC and can hurt only him until he is death, but the other orks can slap him freely.
actually you cant HIT into a challenge, you can have excess wounds spill into it, but you cant hit a model thats in a challenge whilst outside it
Hmm... So does this mean that if your normal marines wipe out the enemy unit, and your Powerfist guy goes last with the only enemy model remaining being in a challenge with your character, the powerfist guy can't actually attack? I can't find anything in the rules that says that models not involved in the challenge can't hit the challenger. It only says they can't allocate wounds to him until the rest of his unit is wiped out.
I'm liking plenty of the rules changes from 6th to 7th, none of which would be effected by basic formatting and re-introducing the relevlance of force organization. Liking that barrage wounding works better isn't likely to have an effect on my dislike for super heavies, fortification and allies, things I dislike for the entirety of 6th. I don't know wht a number changing from 6th to 7th should have me giving crap I never liked to begin with a fair shake. That's not knee jerk at all, that basic common sense.
If you didn't use things in 6th then not using them in 7th makes sense. Banning something like Daemonology when we don't even know which psykers (maybe not every Psyker in every army) can actually use it until we get FAQ clarification is an example of a knee-jerk reaction.
Until everyone is up on all the changes and is testing armies built for 7th against each other (as 6th optimised builds may be less effective against one optimised for 7th) then making changes is more based on fear than reality.
I don't recall calling for banning daemonology. Perhaps you've confused me for wilson.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cruentus wrote: I don't understand how people can be house ruling a game that came out yesterday, without actually playing any games
Maybe it has to do with the fact that those individuals have played warhammer 40k before...
Almost like when a restaurant unveils a new menu, it doesn't cause individuals to forget their food allergies..
Cruentus wrote: I don't understand how people can be house ruling a game that came out yesterday, without actually playing any games. While the intrawebz has often forecast the apocalypse pending the release of every edition of 40k since 3rd, very rarely does the stuff imagined on the web actually see the table.
Sure, anecdotally you might hear about 3000 points of demons, or kneeling wraithlords, or 50 3-man acolyte squads, or 24 ghazkhuls as an army, but I expect to never actually see one. Much like the loch ness monster.
I'm interested to see how it all plays out, and play a number of games before making any decision about balance or house rules, or whatever.
40k has been around for quite some time as I have been playing it and am intellgent enough to relise what I find fun to play.
You know what I think would be funny to see in a tournament that allowed unbound? That guy that won every 2k point match by bringing 11 heldrakes facing that guy who lost every 2k pointm atch by bringing 27 hydras.
Basimpo wrote: You know what I think would be funny to see in a tournament that allowed unbound? That guy that won every 2k point match by bringing 11 heldrakes facing that guy who lost every 2k pointm atch by bringing 27 hydras.
Still think my mates idea of 75 Grot Cannons at 1500pts is pretty much unbeatable? They can play him - not that he has 75 cannons of course..............like alot of these lists?
One thing I noticed that I didn't already see mentioned already in the thread.
Reading over the rulebook now I found that Eldar Jetbikes can only move 2D6" in the Assault Phase if they did not Turbo-Boot in the preceding Shooting Phase. This is a bit of a nerf for Jetbikers.
My friend and I are trying an unbound army list monday...Ive looked over unbound and find the hype to be sadly disconcerting :( I was hoping unbound would be you know, neat. Instead its a paragraph like "Do what cha wanna do, its your prerogative!" so to hear everyone yelp about it has been meh :(
My list for monday
Hive tyrant w/ Hvy vnm cannon, prehensile penser, regen, electroshock grubbs
Warrior brood (3 warriors)
Wraithguard w/Dscythe
Wave serpent w/scatter laser, shuriken cannon, ghostwalk matrix
Farseer w/singing spear
4 warlocks w/singing spear
10 warp spiders
10 swooping hawks (exarch, sunrifle and hit and run)
Night Spinner (I mean, why not?) w/shuriken cannon)
Hydra flak tank
Iron Hands Landraider
5x Iron hands Techmarine w/combi grav
Blood angels Furioso Librarian w/force sword (AB made me pick it...whatever)
12 burna boys in a Burna Trukk
Cant decide if I want to put the warriors in the LR yet or not. Most likely itll go to the warlocks...lol Kinda serious just for funsies
Also, if anyone is using the current version of Army builder and you want to make an easy unbound list without a whole ton of rulez changing, select tyranids as your main detachment, then go to roster>change rules> select allies come the apocalypse> Choose away.
Because all allies are come the apocalypse it opens every detachment up to you, you dont even need to play any nids.
Mr Morden wrote: How does Overwatch work with the new shooting rules - when do you measure range (if you do) and does wall of death still work as before?
thanks
You do not have to measure range and Wall of Death is still the same. Also to note Overwatch cannot cause any Morale or Pinning Tests.
Mr Morden wrote: How does Overwatch work with the new shooting rules - when do you measure range (if you do) and does wall of death still work as before?
thanks
You do not have to measure range and Wall of Death is still the same. Also to note Overwatch cannot cause any Morale or Pinning Tests.
Isnt it funny how the munitorum edition still hasn't sold out yet?
Literally nobody wants to buy the crap anymore and GW has been sitting on some 300 copies all day.
An extra $100 for 6 objective markers, a picture book, and a cardboard box ?
It's seriously overpriced.
It's not overpriced - it is insanely priced.
Honestly, basic rules should only be $40. $60 at most. The basic rules are already severely overpriced.
Rulebook should be $40 - like every single other full-color hardback rulebook on the market. Miniatures catalog - some nerve to even charge for it. It's a dang catalog. So value of $0. Fluff - same as it has always been and honestly, the majority of it should be in the codexes and it should account for mainly 20-30 pages in the rulebook, like every other game on the market. It doesn't need to be it's own book. It's just being done to artificially inflate the price. So, we have a true market value of $40 so far for the core rules.
Add to that the cards - $15 and $8 and the tokens (about $15 in value), the cardboard box ($2), the picture book ($20 real value like every other dang artbook) and you have a true total value of $100.
Your paying an extra $240 for what - $120 for the letter G and $120 for the letter W on the box?
Isnt it funny how the munitorum edition still hasn't sold out yet?
Literally nobody wants to buy the crap anymore and GW has been sitting on some 300 copies all day.
An extra $100 for 6 objective markers, a picture book, and a cardboard box ?
It's seriously overpriced.
It's not overpriced - it is insanely priced.
Honestly, basic rules should only be $40. $60 at most. The basic rules are already severely overpriced.
Rulebook should be $40 - like every single other full-color hardback rulebook on the market. Miniatures catalog - some nerve to even charge for it. It's a dang catalog. So value of $0. Fluff - same as it has always been and honestly, the majority of it should be in the codexes and it should account for mainly 20-30 pages in the rulebook, like every other game on the market. It doesn't need to be it's own book. It's just being done to artificially inflate the price. So, we have a true market value of $40 so far for the core rules.
Add to that the cards - $15 and $8 and the tokens (about $15 in value), the cardboard box ($2), the picture book ($20 real value like every other dang artbook) and you have a true total value of $100.
Your paying an extra $240 for what - $120 for the letter G and $120 for the letter W on the box?
I also find their policy of releasing minis that they actually dont want you to buy unless you pay an arm and a leg for stuff you dont need to be hideous.
As if the whole shenanigans with the new webstore limited edition captain for 80 Euros worth of ordering and his cousin-in-a-code that costs 25 Euros to turn into a real miniature wasnt enough, we got this strikeforce ultra now.
TheKbob wrote: $240 is roughly the price for a rule book and a good sized faction in just about any other game.
Or one of those massive boxes GW now sells.
For $288 (full retail with no internet discount), I can get a rulebook and complete 1,000 point American Force for Bolt Action (as I did recently).
For $340, you get a bunch of glorified tree killing crap from GW.
Which is the better value for the money?
Sadly, whichever people play around you.
Haven't tried Bolt Action yet, don't know anyone that plays it. I have local W/H, Infinity, and Malifaux groups, so that's good. I'm not much for Historicals, but Bolt Action appears to be more "gamey" instead of simulator, and I can get behind that.
For what it's worth, if you want all the models in these new massive bundles, the pricing is better than the past. If GW would have kept selling that Eldar Iyanden set, I'd have probably grabbed one as you basically almost have a 1500 pt army minus maybe a transport or two and a Spiritseer. It wasn't a bad price all things considered.
For $288 (full retail with no internet discount), I can get a rulebook and complete 1,000 point American Force for Bolt Action (as I did recently).
For $340, you get a bunch of glorified tree killing crap from GW.
Which is the better value for the money?
For me it would be the GW stuff as I don't know anybody who plays bolt action (never heard of the game either) so I'd have wasted the money on shelf warmers if I spent the $288 on it.
For $288 (full retail with no internet discount), I can get a rulebook and complete 1,000 point American Force for Bolt Action (as I did recently).
For $340, you get a bunch of glorified tree killing crap from GW.
Which is the better value for the money?
For me it would be the GW stuff as I don't know anybody who plays bolt action (never heard of the game either) so I'd have wasted the money on shelf warmers if I spent the $288 on it.
Value is subjective.
well this GW stuff will be shelf warmers in 2 years as well (possibly earlier once GW realises the rules are still an utter mess and actually decides to reformat the entire system, as unlikely as that may ever be)
You can get about as much picture value from a copy of Warhammer Visions (issue 4 is good for AM players) as the A Galaxy Of War book
I like the idea of everyone just returning 7th ed. Love to see the response from a massive influx of returned materials. Or TOs just not using the new rules in any GT.
Sir Arun wrote: I also find their policy of releasing minis that they actually dont want you to buy unless you pay an arm and a leg for stuff you dont need to be hideous.
As if the whole shenanigans with the new webstore limited edition captain for 80 Euros worth of ordering and his cousin-in-a-code that costs 25 Euros to turn into a real miniature wasnt enough, we got this strikeforce ultra now.
Yeah, it's disgusting when GW release a box set that gives you a discount!
There has been hints the captain terminator will be available on its own.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and I've just finished my first 7th game.
Narrow win for the Enclaves against a Chaos marine/daemon onslaught. Lovely stuff
DireAvenger20 wrote: One thing I noticed that I didn't already see mentioned already in the thread.
Reading over the rulebook now I found that Eldar Jetbikes can only move 2D6" in the Assault Phase if they did not Turbo-Boot in the preceding Shooting Phase. This is a bit of a nerf for Jetbikers.
That is unchanged from sixth. Turbo boosting prevented any further voluntary actions for bikes in a given turn.
This would be a massive blow to GW due to the uttermost respect and regard they hold for tournaments and competetive 40K in general OR they probably don't even know these GT even exist.
DireAvenger20 wrote: One thing I noticed that I didn't already see mentioned already in the thread.
Reading over the rulebook now I found that Eldar Jetbikes can only move 2D6" in the Assault Phase if they did not Turbo-Boot in the preceding Shooting Phase. This is a bit of a nerf for Jetbikers.
That is unchanged from sixth. Turbo boosting prevented any further voluntary actions for bikes in a given turn.
Thanks for letting me know, I was not aware of that.
Wilson wrote: Just finished my first game of seventh at 1000 points using the cards...
DontlikeitImisssixthedition
Don't play Maelstrom missions then?
also thanks for providing such great feedback on not liking 7th
You are most welcome Doctor Sarcasm!
Don't worry, I will not be using the cards again. which is a bit of a shame as I was hoping they could be quite good!
far too random for my liking.
On the upside, Vehicles are a lot tougher - providing you're opponent doesn't land a direct hit with orbital bombardment with ignore cover on the very first time on your Legion Sicaran and wrecks it and you're Fire Raptor doesn't gets hit by a snap firing marine with a lascannon, immobilises it and then suffer the crash and burn result on a 2.
Not a good first game of luck either!
Just as an FYI the lists where;
Master of the forge
bike, combi grav, gorgan chain
Drop pod
Tactical + melta + combi
Drop pod
Tactical + melta + combi
Drop pod
Tactical + melta + combi
Legion Sicaran
Lascannons
Fire raptor
Autocannons
VS
Tigirius - Various Divination powers
Chapter master on bike
Bikes
Grav guns+combi gravs
Bikes
Grav guns+combi gravs
Tactical squad
lascannon
Tactical squad
lascannon
Razorback
Lascannon
I can see the psychic phase being exploited and really taking over the game.
+ heavy psycher armies vs the likes of Tau and Necrons who have no psychers are really going to struggle at winning games.
What they realy needed to do was go balls out, and add a wargear selection page everyone can buy from for a 40k dispell scrolls and the likes as you see in fantsey.
I really fail to see how the psychic phase has changed anything at all.
The fact that enemy armies get to deny the witch even when they arent being targeted (e.g. you trying to fortune one of your squads) speaks volumes of how the psykers got nerfed.
With a more dangerous perils table, and powers only going off on 4+ for every WC they need (so you need 2 4+ to cast a WC2 spell) and you needing to risk it and say how many dice you roll from the pool BEFORE casting the spell rather than rolling one after the other until you cast it, and finally, NOT BEING ABLE TO CAST the same spell if it didnt go off for the rest of the turn even by any other psyker means psykers took the nerf bat. Now back in the previous edition, I didnt bat an eyelid when using my Farseers to cast powers. Now on the other hand, I really break a sweat hoping the powers will go off.
Its funny how now a craven warlock or frail sanctioned psyker has the same chance to cast a power as Eldrad Ulthran does.
Of course I do not have the rulebook with me, so the above paragraph may be full of errors thus kindly correct me where needed.
I am sure GW will soon introduce psyker tiers, i.e. wargear or abilities that make powers go off on a 3+ or 2+ while making enemy ones go off only on a 5+ etc. in future codexes, however long they may take.
Basimpo wrote: My friend and I are trying an unbound army list monday...Ive looked over unbound and find the hype to be sadly disconcerting :( I was hoping unbound would be you know, neat. Instead its a paragraph like "Do what cha wanna do, its your prerogative!" so to hear everyone yelp about it has been meh :(
My list for monday
Hive tyrant w/ Hvy vnm cannon, prehensile penser, regen, electroshock grubbs
Warrior brood (3 warriors)
Wraithguard w/Dscythe
Wave serpent w/scatter laser, shuriken cannon, ghostwalk matrix
Farseer w/singing spear
4 warlocks w/singing spear
10 warp spiders
10 swooping hawks (exarch, sunrifle and hit and run)
Night Spinner (I mean, why not?) w/shuriken cannon)
Hydra flak tank
Iron Hands Landraider
5x Iron hands Techmarine w/combi grav
Blood angels Furioso Librarian w/force sword (AB made me pick it...whatever)
12 burna boys in a Burna Trukk
Cant decide if I want to put the warriors in the LR yet or not. Most likely itll go to the warlocks...lol Kinda serious just for funsies
Also, if anyone is using the current version of Army builder and you want to make an easy unbound list without a whole ton of rulez changing, select tyranids as your main detachment, then go to roster>change rules> select allies come the apocalypse> Choose away.
Because all allies are come the apocalypse it opens every detachment up to you, you dont even need to play any nids.
Just got back from my flgs and spent some time talking with madmen who'd been up since last night playing back-to-back-to-back games of 7th.
There was a good mixture of armies overall, but I thought I'd share some of the stuff I was told that jumped out at me.
- The battle-forged vs. unbound stuff didn't break the game for these players, even with guys who intentionally made the most "game breaking" lists possible.
- Universally the idea of scoring drop pods was dumb. That needs to be pushed out in an faq. Essentially any army running mass pods won objective games.
- People thought the maelstrom of war missions were fun, but too random to play regularly. They felt like too often they were stuck with a card they couldn't use and/or whoever got the "slay the opponent's warlord" card would win by default.
- FMCs took a hit according to demon players, but it was made up for with chariots. They seem to be the go-to unit in 7th if you have them.
- Walkers and tanks performed really well, land raiders didn't earn their points back. My local meta will favor mass razorbacks and predators over big expensive heavy vehicles.
- Wounds spilling over from challenges had major implications in games they played. This could be a change in mindset needing to occur, but throwing a cheap sergeant into a challenge is a bad idea.
- Demonology was far too unreliable, even for demons or GK. Across the board lvl2 and 3 powers were too risky to get off without perils. One player built a list around the idea of summoning in mass demons and was tabled quickly by tyranids.
- Marines are really strong this edition (gasp) and their few weaknesses are no longer weaknesses. Universally they felt like the hardest hit army was Tau and Necrons gained the most across the board.
- Assault became slightly more effective, but not enough to reliably run an assault army with success.
- Largely the result was positive. Most players said that while wound allocation and shooting takes longer there's a lot less ambiguity in the book. Anecdotally the game moved faster, even though there was more to do.
Auswin wrote: Just got back from my flgs and spent some time talking with madmen who'd been up since last night playing back-to-back-to-back games of 7th.
There was a good mixture of armies overall, but I thought I'd share some of the stuff I was told that jumped out at me.
- The battle-forged vs. unbound stuff didn't break the game for these players, even with guys who intentionally made the most "game breaking" lists possible.
- Universally the idea of scoring drop pods was dumb. That needs to be pushed out in an faq. Essentially any army running mass pods won objective games.
- People thought the maelstrom of war missions were fun, but too random to play regularly. They felt like too often they were stuck with a card they couldn't use and/or whoever got the "slay the opponent's warlord" card would win by default.
- FMCs took a hit according to demon players, but it was made up for with chariots. They seem to be the go-to unit in 7th if you have them.
- Walkers and tanks performed really well, land raiders didn't earn their points back. My local meta will favor mass razorbacks and predators over big expensive heavy vehicles.
- Wounds spilling over from challenges had major implications in games they played. This could be a change in mindset needing to occur, but throwing a cheap sergeant into a challenge is a bad idea.
- Demonology was far too unreliable, even for demons or GK. Across the board lvl2 and 3 powers were too risky to get off without perils. One player built a list around the idea of summoning in mass demons and was tabled quickly by tyranids.
- Marines are really strong this edition (gasp) and their few weaknesses are no longer weaknesses. Universally they felt like the hardest hit army was Tau and Necrons gained the most across the board.
- Assault became slightly more effective, but not enough to reliably run an assault army with success.
- Largely the result was positive. Most players said that while wound allocation and shooting takes longer there's a lot less ambiguity in the book. Anecdotally the game moved faster, even though there was more to do.
Yeah mega scoring drop pods sounds terrible. I'm not really a fan of the new scoring system all together. They could have just axed the kill point mission and made that mission crusade with scoring elite and it would have been better.
- Demonology was far too unreliable, even for demons or GK. Across the board lvl2 and 3 powers were too risky to get off without perils. One player built a list around the idea of summoning in mass demons and was tabled quickly by tyranids.
This doesn't sound right. It shouldn't be "scary" for daemons as they perils on the standard two 6s. And you then push out cascading troops who choke the board. You only risk nearly dead units to push the Herald/Possession powers. If you only have 3 pink horrors left, who cares if you 12 dice possession? Perils, but the spell still goes off thus they are killed anyways and replaced with a Lord of Change.
Using that tree tactically in a daemons army still seems a crazy strong strategy. I want to see the more tournament level folks trying it over a few games to negate dice nonsense.
You can fiddle with the points and gak stuff around if you want more effective shooting, but the idea is to cascade the WC3 powers in the pink horrors. Per Bro-Hood of Psykers, they only lose a model if they peril, so after you get the Screamerstar buffs you need, just 6~8 dice the horrors. Unless they are absolutely mulching everything, you should be able to cause distress with your support units and/or shoot when necessary.
The list might need refinement to get some more units that can lock down the opposing army. That's really the screamerstars job; not to kill, but to gum up the opponents army and add as "shock and awe".
Whenever a "battery" of horrors gets low on guys, throw a big possession spell. Or hell, throw it early to get another LoC. Trading 90pts on the first turn for a 230pt FMC ain't bad and still nets you +1 warp charge dice. You have to play this list "balls to the walls". Yes, you could kill yourself, or you could absolutely swarm the enemy causing mass sadness. Remember, denying the summoning spells is just straight 6s, so once you get past a certain number of dice, the probability of denial starts dropping a great deal.
Is Slow and Purposeful and Salvo Weapons unchanged?
It always struck me as odd that Grav Cannons had a 2/4 profile when the only unit wielding them - Grav Cents - were SnP and thus always shot 4 shots each.
Sir Arun wrote: Is Slow and Purposeful and Salvo Weapons unchanged?
It always struck me as odd that Grav Cannons had a 2/4 profile when the only unit wielding them - Grav Cents - were SnP and thus always shot 4 shots each.
Grav weapons are salvo, so Grav Cannons are salvo too. That's just how GW does things.
Sir Arun wrote: Is Slow and Purposeful and Salvo Weapons unchanged?
It always struck me as odd that Grav Cannons had a 2/4 profile when the only unit wielding them - Grav Cents - were SnP and thus always shot 4 shots each.
Grav weapons are salvo, so Grav Cannons are salvo too. That's just how GW does things.
well Bolters are rapid fire and Heavy Bolters are Heavy....and hot-shot lasguns are rapid-fire while hot-shot volley guns are salvo. So, not sure what you are going on about, mate
Isnt it funny how the munitorum edition still hasn't sold out yet?
Literally nobody wants to buy the crap anymore and GW has been sitting on some 300 copies all day.
I'd buy that set for a $100 if that was the price... but $340!! Nothing in there worth that! I'd like the small rule book and the tokens, the map is cool... That's it. So yes it is funny they're sitting on so many.
Isnt it funny how the munitorum edition still hasn't sold out yet?
Literally nobody wants to buy the crap anymore and GW has been sitting on some 300 copies all day.
I'd buy that set for a $100 if that was the price... but $340!! Nothing in there worth that! I'd like the small rule book and the tokens, the map is cool... That's it. So yes it is funny they're sitting on so many.
Well the updated dark vengeance, will be available soon, so small rule books for all.
- Demonology was far too unreliable, even for demons or GK. Across the board lvl2 and 3 powers were too risky to get off without perils. One player built a list around the idea of summoning in mass demons and was tabled quickly by tyranids.
This doesn't sound right. It shouldn't be "scary" for daemons as they perils on the standard two 6s. And you then push out cascading troops who choke the board. You only risk nearly dead units to push the Herald/Possession powers. If you only have 3 pink horrors left, who cares if you 12 dice possession? Perils, but the spell still goes off thus they are killed anyways and replaced with a Lord of Change.
Using that tree tactically in a daemons army still seems a crazy strong strategy. I want to see the more tournament level folks trying it over a few games to negate dice nonsense.
You can fiddle with the points and gak stuff around if you want more effective shooting, but the idea is to cascade the WC3 powers in the pink horrors. Per Bro-Hood of Psykers, they only lose a model if they peril, so after you get the Screamerstar buffs you need, just 6~8 dice the horrors. Unless they are absolutely mulching everything, you should be able to cause distress with your support units and/or shoot when necessary.
The list might need refinement to get some more units that can lock down the opposing army. That's really the screamerstars job; not to kill, but to gum up the opponents army and add as "shock and awe".
Whenever a "battery" of horrors gets low on guys, throw a big possession spell. Or hell, throw it early to get another LoC. Trading 90pts on the first turn for a 230pt FMC ain't bad and still nets you +1 warp charge dice. You have to play this list "balls to the walls". Yes, you could kill yourself, or you could absolutely swarm the enemy causing mass sadness. Remember, denying the summoning spells is just straight 6s, so once you get past a certain number of dice, the probability of denial starts dropping a great deal.
Yup. We have a Daemon player who already got us with this tonight.
It's broken. We couldn't beat him before, now he's unstoppable.
You can fiddle with the points and gak stuff around if you want more effective shooting, but the idea is to cascade the WC3 powers in the pink horrors. Per Bro-Hood of Psykers, they only lose a model if they peril, so after you get the Screamerstar buffs you need, just 6~8 dice the horrors. Unless they are absolutely mulching everything, you should be able to cause distress with your support units and/or shoot when necessary.
The list might need refinement to get some more units that can lock down the opposing army. That's really the screamerstars job; not to kill, but to gum up the opponents army and add as "shock and awe".
Whenever a "battery" of horrors gets low on guys, throw a big possession spell. Or hell, throw it early to get another LoC. Trading 90pts on the first turn for a 230pt FMC ain't bad and still nets you +1 warp charge dice. You have to play this list "balls to the walls". Yes, you could kill yourself, or you could absolutely swarm the enemy causing mass sadness. Remember, denying the summoning spells is just straight 6s, so once you get past a certain number of dice, the probability of denial starts dropping a great deal.
Yup. We have a Daemon player who already got us with this tonight.
It's broken. We couldn't beat him before, now he's unstoppable.
Could you elaborate? What was his list? How did he play it?
- Demonology was far too unreliable, even for demons or GK. Across the board lvl2 and 3 powers were too risky to get off without perils. One player built a list around the idea of summoning in mass demons and was tabled quickly by tyranids.
This doesn't sound right. It shouldn't be "scary" for daemons as they perils on the standard two 6s. And you then push out cascading troops who choke the board. You only risk nearly dead units to push the Herald/Possession powers. If you only have 3 pink horrors left, who cares if you 12 dice possession? Perils, but the spell still goes off thus they are killed anyways and replaced with a Lord of Change.
Using that tree tactically in a daemons army still seems a crazy strong strategy. I want to see the more tournament level folks trying it over a few games to negate dice nonsense.
You can fiddle with the points and gak stuff around if you want more effective shooting, but the idea is to cascade the WC3 powers in the pink horrors. Per Bro-Hood of Psykers, they only lose a model if they peril, so after you get the Screamerstar buffs you need, just 6~8 dice the horrors. Unless they are absolutely mulching everything, you should be able to cause distress with your support units and/or shoot when necessary.
The list might need refinement to get some more units that can lock down the opposing army. That's really the screamerstars job; not to kill, but to gum up the opponents army and add as "shock and awe".
Whenever a "battery" of horrors gets low on guys, throw a big possession spell. Or hell, throw it early to get another LoC. Trading 90pts on the first turn for a 230pt FMC ain't bad and still nets you +1 warp charge dice. You have to play this list "balls to the walls". Yes, you could kill yourself, or you could absolutely swarm the enemy causing mass sadness. Remember, denying the summoning spells is just straight 6s, so once you get past a certain number of dice, the probability of denial starts dropping a great deal.
Yup. We have a Daemon player who already got us with this tonight.
It's broken. We couldn't beat him before, now he's unstoppable.
Ditto on that. My brother who is probably the most level headed person I know ( and a demon player) is completely wracking his brains right now at how bad it appears.
It's pretty funny and depressing as we've been playing this game since we where kids.
If they don't provide some sort of tournament focused rule set I'm genuinely saddened to say it may be time to pack it in. Completely contradicts my posts from a few days ago but you can only fight for so long- this is not the game I signed up to play 14 years ago.
You can fiddle with the points and gak stuff around if you want more effective shooting, but the idea is to cascade the WC3 powers in the pink horrors. Per Bro-Hood of Psykers, they only lose a model if they peril, so after you get the Screamerstar buffs you need, just 6~8 dice the horrors. Unless they are absolutely mulching everything, you should be able to cause distress with your support units and/or shoot when necessary.
The list might need refinement to get some more units that can lock down the opposing army. That's really the screamerstars job; not to kill, but to gum up the opponents army and add as "shock and awe".
Whenever a "battery" of horrors gets low on guys, throw a big possession spell. Or hell, throw it early to get another LoC. Trading 90pts on the first turn for a 230pt FMC ain't bad and still nets you +1 warp charge dice. You have to play this list "balls to the walls". Yes, you could kill yourself, or you could absolutely swarm the enemy causing mass sadness. Remember, denying the summoning spells is just straight 6s, so once you get past a certain number of dice, the probability of denial starts dropping a great deal.
Yup. We have a Daemon player who already got us with this tonight.
It's broken. We couldn't beat him before, now he's unstoppable.
Could you elaborate? What was his list? How did he play it?
This doesn't sound right. It shouldn't be "scary" for daemons as they perils on the standard two 6s. And you then push out cascading troops who choke the board. You only risk nearly dead units to push the Herald/Possession powers. If you only have 3 pink horrors left, who cares if you 12 dice possession? Perils, but the spell still goes off thus they are killed anyways and replaced with a Lord of Change.
Using that tree tactically in a daemons army still seems a crazy strong strategy. I want to see the more tournament level folks trying it over a few games to negate dice nonsense.
I initially thought the same thing too. The two demon players there I'd consider the biggest power gamers of our local meta. They massed chariots and psykers to flood the board with summons but found that warp charge three spells requires too many dice to reliably get off multiple summons in a turn (which is what they hoped for).
Honestly, I don't know exactly what his list comprised of, but one guy gave me an example of having 9 mastery levels and and rolling a 2. He had to commit 8 dice to reliable get off the first summon and got whittled down by weight of fire the following turn. Maybe bad rolling, but it was too unreliable for his liking. Perils weren't the issue, casting lvl3's was.
This doesn't sound right. It shouldn't be "scary" for daemons as they perils on the standard two 6s. And you then push out cascading troops who choke the board. You only risk nearly dead units to push the Herald/Possession powers. If you only have 3 pink horrors left, who cares if you 12 dice possession? Perils, but the spell still goes off thus they are killed anyways and replaced with a Lord of Change.
Using that tree tactically in a daemons army still seems a crazy strong strategy. I want to see the more tournament level folks trying it over a few games to negate dice nonsense.
I initially thought the same thing too. The two demon players there I'd consider the biggest power gamers of our local meta. They massed chariots and psykers to flood the board with summons but found that warp charge three spells requires too many dice to reliably get off multiple summons in a turn (which is what they hoped for).
Honestly, I don't know exactly what his list comprised of, but one guy gave me an example of having 9 mastery levels and and rolling a 2. He had to commit 8 dice to reliable get off the first summon and got whittled down by weight of fire the following turn. Maybe bad rolling, but it was too unreliable for his liking. Perils weren't the issue, casting lvl3's was.
Yea, nine power dice? That's low. The list I just made has 22 + d6 dice at 1850. And it still has a screamerstar in it. Therefore you make the opposing player poo a little when they have to choose between a powered up Screamerstar or you dumping 8~9 dice into a Pink Horror squad/Herald for Possession. The idea is that you can force as many units to turn into FMCs and then on turn 4+, just respawn in your pink horrors. Any pink horror that doesn't have possession moves forward to flickering fire, bullet sponge, and tie up the enemy. If you have spare dice, try to summon more pink horrors.
If Pink Horrors can't be Malefic, then you simply quad up your force org by taking nurglings and pumping out lvl one heralds. Hide them everywhere in your deployment zone and either pump out more nurglings or go for possession.
This all relies on the FAQs which we need to see which units get which powers. The game is unplayable, IMO, until this happens.
IC can never be deployed inside a dedicated transport unless kept in reserve?
After all, the IC only has 2 ways to join a unit,
either be placed within 2 coherency (cant be because the unit is inside a transport)
Or
be declared to be in the unit and placed in reserves.
French Version;Psychic Shriek; Rule book and card says range of 12", while English says 18"
Good catch there with the Psy Cards, wouldn't have realised that myself (I have little need for Sanctic being a daemons player myself) But undoubtedly my opponent(s) would want to use it...
Time to self-update that card... boo I don't like messing them up.
Hi, can you go into detail about how assault got more effective?
I'm really interested in this if true. Thank you
This is all second-hand stuff, so ymmv -- but I trust the players I talked to, they rule crunch and understand the game's systems better than I do.
They found that charge ranges were slightly increased with the change to terrain, making it easier to reliably get into combat. Ally transport shenanigans are HUGE for some armies, but we can put that to the side for a second.
Changing the way challenges work was an unexpected boon to CC monsters. They thought it might be a neat "once in a while" thing, but found that instead of getting locked down for a turn they come into their own. The example they gave me was a BA vs. AM. Mephiston made it into a 30 man blob squad with a commissar in CC and quickly demolished him. In the past he'd need to sit a whole turn, wait for the guard to swing, then see if they broke. In reality four wounds spilled over and killed the guardsmen, they got one wound on mephy then broke and he swept them. Situational for sure, but it added to his overall effectiveness -- because he wasn't tied down like he'd be in the past.
From a Dark Eldar perspective (what I play the most) there will need to be an faq to explain how Drazhar will work. Darting strike could potentially allow the owner to allocate spill over wounds by making him move in base to base after winning a challenge (which he probably will).
Auswin wrote: ...The example they gave me was a BA vs. AM. Mephiston made it into a 30 man blob squad with a commissar in CC and quickly demolished him...
..they got one wound on mephy then broke
How in god's name did that happen? Summary Execution is an auto-pass now.
I can I finally run Tyranids how I want to, though... with just the models I like. Check this list:
Spoiler:
+++Tyrant and T-Fexes+++
========1,850========
Detachment (1)
-Dakka Flyrant
-Dakka Flyrant
-Rippers (x4)
-Rippers (x3)
-T-Fex (Adrenal Glands)
-T-Fex (Adrenal Glands)
Detachment (2)
-Dakka Flyrant
-Dakka Flyrant
-Rippers (x3)
-Rippers (x3)
-T-Fex (Adrenal Glands)
-T-Fex (Adrenal Glands)
I can make it 1750 by dropping one T-Fex and giving the others Regen. Then I can make it 2K by giving all the T-Fex Regen and some extra template weapons.
A brand new edition of the rules has arrived and many of you may be wondering what this means for the events you are planning to attend.
The Events Team have been hard at work deciding what to do (it’s a tough old life…) and so we have made the following decisions for each of our Warhammer 40,000 events for 2014.
Please note: We are confident that any army you could take before is still usable at our events. If you are worried that something we have written here or in the new rulebook contradicts this please contact us and we will discuss it with you. We want any army you could use before to be available after this update – so don’t worry – you will still be able to use it!
WHW throne of skulls
The points values for armies shall remain the same (1,500).
We will be using the ‘Battle Forged’ rules to select armies, from page 117 of the rulebook.
You can only take the “Combined Arms” Detachment on page 122 once at a Throne of Skulls event.
There will be no other changes to the standard Battle-Forged rules.
We will be using the Eternal War missions as stated in the Events Pack.
Ah. yes. quite right. Dunno why I thought they had given him the monstrous creature rule. Why don't we just chalk that one up to a momentary mind lapse shall we?
Can someone help clarify what is meant by an "unbounded" army/detachment? Does this mean I can literally have an army that is simply a line of Leman Russes that blitzkrieg down the board without any infantry, or is it not as loose as I interpreted it?
KommissarKiln wrote: Can someone help clarify what is meant by an "unbounded" army/detachment? Does this mean I can literally have an army that is simply a line of Leman Russes that blitzkrieg down the board without any infantry, or is it not as loose as I interpreted it?
Magc8Ball wrote: A list with 9 power dice will be reasonable. The problem is that you can find demon lists with upwards of 20.
The list I ran today had 21 + D6. Fatweaver, 3 ML3 Princes, 2 ML3 Heralds, 2 units of 10 Horrors, and 6 Screamers.
I summoned about 1 unit per turn. Plus the portal glyph pooped out a few more. We played a Maelstrom mission and was super close against a Salamander army.
Auswin wrote: Oh man... a Vindicare/Coteaz power couple could be extremely nasty.
It means no more "one shotting" my Vindicare that has the entire goal of stripping Shield Eternals and Shadowfields off "problem" ICs. Put a Terminator Inquisitor with them and let the wounds soak. I'm sure there's other tricks we can figure out...
Magc8Ball wrote: A list with 9 power dice will be reasonable. The problem is that you can find demon lists with upwards of 20.
The list I ran today had 21 + D6. Fatweaver, 3 ML3 Princes, 2 ML3 Heralds, 2 units of 10 Horrors, and 6 Screamers.
I summoned about 1 unit per turn. Plus the portal glyph pooped out a few more. We played a Maelstrom mission and was super close against a Salamander army.
Out of curiosity, how many points in the end was your army compared with the size you started with and your opponent had?
I don't think I'll have huge issues playing against the uber-summoning list, so long as my opponent has the appropriate models. It's only in the land of proxy things can get stupid.
Sir Arun wrote: Is Slow and Purposeful and Salvo Weapons unchanged?
It always struck me as odd that Grav Cannons had a 2/4 profile when the only unit wielding them - Grav Cents - were SnP and thus always shot 4 shots each.
Grav weapons are salvo, so Grav Cannons are salvo too. That's just how GW does things.
The weapon might be usable by other units in the future. Better to have the applicable stats from the start, even if they are irrelevant to certain units.
You can fiddle with the points and gak stuff around if you want more effective shooting, but the idea is to cascade the WC3 powers in the pink horrors. Per Bro-Hood of Psykers, they only lose a model if they peril, so after you get the Screamerstar buffs you need, just 6~8 dice the horrors. Unless they are absolutely mulching everything, you should be able to cause distress with your support units and/or shoot when necessary.
The list might need refinement to get some more units that can lock down the opposing army. That's really the screamerstars job; not to kill, but to gum up the opponents army and add as "shock and awe".
Whenever a "battery" of horrors gets low on guys, throw a big possession spell. Or hell, throw it early to get another LoC. Trading 90pts on the first turn for a 230pt FMC ain't bad and still nets you +1 warp charge dice. You have to play this list "balls to the walls". Yes, you could kill yourself, or you could absolutely swarm the enemy causing mass sadness. Remember, denying the summoning spells is just straight 6s, so once you get past a certain number of dice, the probability of denial starts dropping a great deal.
Yup. We have a Daemon player who already got us with this tonight.
It's broken. We couldn't beat him before, now he's unstoppable.
Could you elaborate? What was his list? How did he play it?
This interests me... for science...
Will do in the morning. Too tired.
Right...
Basically this is it:
Heralds of Chaos
• Herald of Tzeentch: Psyker (Mastery Level 3); Exalted Reward; Disc of Tzeentch; Exalted Locus of Conjuration 175
• Herald of Tzeentch: Psyker (Mastery Level 2); Exalted Locus of Conjuration 95
• Herald of Tzeentch: Psyker (Mastery Level 3); Greater Reward 115
Heralds of Chaos
• Herald of Tzeentch: Psyker (Mastery Level 3); Greater Reward; Disc of Tzeentch 140
• Herald of Tzeentch: Psyker (Mastery Level 2); Exalted Locus of Conjuration 95
• Herald of Tzeentch: Psyker (Mastery Level 3); Greater Reward 115
18 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch 162
18 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch 162
6 Screamers of Tzeentch 150
Sorcerer: Mark of Tzeentch; sigil of corruption; The Balestar of Mannon; Daemonheart 155
4 Chaos Terminators: 4× power weapon; 4× combi-melta; Mark of Tzeentch 166
10 Chaos Cultists: 9× autogun; heavy stubber 64
Heldrake: baleflamer 170
3 Obliterators: Mark of Tzeentch 234
1,998 points
It spawns Horrors and whatever else his Heralds can spawn and it grows exponentially by x 10 strong Horror squads where x is the number of Heralds.
Roll well on the table and get the one that summons heralds and it's GG by around T3.
Those daemon summoning cards should come with a sound effect of a cashier each time you use them and then Tom Kirby saying 'Thank you for shopping with GW'...
You can fiddle with the points and gak stuff around if you want more effective shooting, but the idea is to cascade the WC3 powers in the pink horrors. Per Bro-Hood of Psykers, they only lose a model if they peril, so after you get the Screamerstar buffs you need, just 6~8 dice the horrors. Unless they are absolutely mulching everything, you should be able to cause distress with your support units and/or shoot when necessary.
The list might need refinement to get some more units that can lock down the opposing army. That's really the screamerstars job; not to kill, but to gum up the opponents army and add as "shock and awe".
Whenever a "battery" of horrors gets low on guys, throw a big possession spell. Or hell, throw it early to get another LoC. Trading 90pts on the first turn for a 230pt FMC ain't bad and still nets you +1 warp charge dice. You have to play this list "balls to the walls". Yes, you could kill yourself, or you could absolutely swarm the enemy causing mass sadness. Remember, denying the summoning spells is just straight 6s, so once you get past a certain number of dice, the probability of denial starts dropping a great deal.
Yup. We have a Daemon player who already got us with this tonight.
It's broken. We couldn't beat him before, now he's unstoppable.
Could you elaborate? What was his list? How did he play it?
This interests me... for science...
Will do in the morning. Too tired.
Right...
Basically this is it:
Heralds of Chaos
• Herald of Tzeentch: Psyker (Mastery Level 3); Exalted Reward; Disc of Tzeentch; Exalted Locus of Conjuration 175
• Herald of Tzeentch: Psyker (Mastery Level 2); Exalted Locus of Conjuration 95
• Herald of Tzeentch: Psyker (Mastery Level 3); Greater Reward 115
Heralds of Chaos
• Herald of Tzeentch: Psyker (Mastery Level 3); Greater Reward; Disc of Tzeentch 140
• Herald of Tzeentch: Psyker (Mastery Level 2); Exalted Locus of Conjuration 95
• Herald of Tzeentch: Psyker (Mastery Level 3); Greater Reward 115
18 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch 162
18 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch 162
6 Screamers of Tzeentch 150
Sorcerer: Mark of Tzeentch; sigil of corruption; The Balestar of Mannon; Daemonheart 155
4 Chaos Terminators: 4× power weapon; 4× combi-melta; Mark of Tzeentch 166
10 Chaos Cultists: 9× autogun; heavy stubber 64
Heldrake: baleflamer 170
3 Obliterators: Mark of Tzeentch 234
1,998 points
It spawns Horrors and whatever else his Heralds can spawn and it grows exponentially by x 10 strong Horror squads where x is the number of Heralds.
Roll well on the table and get the one that summons heralds and it's GG by around T3.
This is an unbound list. Multi-Heralds are one per Primary detachment.
This is an unbound list. Multi-Heralds are one per Primary detachment.
It is not unbound. You can take multiple "primary" detachments now. It's basically unlimited force organizations versus the second you could get a 2000pts in 6E.
As long as you meet 1 HQ + 2 Troops, bam, another core part of your army to harness. Thus these lists are still battle forged. Any units they spawn are also battle forged.
Edit: that guy's list is unbound, but he could just break up the pink horrors into 11 man squads and go to town.
You can't have multiple Primary Detachments, you can have multiple Combined Arms detachments which is not the same thing. The brb clearly states that your Primary Detachment is the one that contains your Warlord.
I have not got access to 7th Ed - but do Flickerfields (or similar invulnerable saves) protect their passengers against template weapons attacking their passengers...........?
You could have missed the 7th edition release at my game store. Nearly everyone was there playing the MtG gameday, promo cards and prizes, etc.
Meanwhile the 40k release consisted of the books being put on sale. A few people came to play games but many didn't look like 40k to me. GW sure know how to launch their big releases.
This is an unbound list. Multi-Heralds are one per Primary detachment.
It is not unbound. You can take multiple "primary" detachments now. It's basically unlimited force organizations versus the second you could get a 2000pts in 6E.
As long as you meet 1 HQ + 2 Troops, bam, another core part of your army to harness. Thus these lists are still battle forged. Any units they spawn are also battle forged.
Edit: that guy's list is unbound, but he could just break up the pink horrors into 11 man squads and go to town.
7 Heralds = 1 primary + 3 secondary detachments.
To be battleforged that list would need 8 troops.
Also, that video is kinda silly and a bad bad way to prove something. You are bringing one of the worst possible lists against what is an effective MSU spam (he is playing with 39 models on the field...less than some Deathwings) and he rolls summons with 4 dices but still manages to cast 4/5 of those (31% chance). Honestly before saying if that demon factory is broken or not i would fix the list (or just say unbound) and make 4-5 batreps against a different list.
What we can probably say though is that it is a good counter to deathstars (like all MSU) and gives problems to static gunlines (you can keep hidden until you literally vomit hell on them). A list that wants to get close and personal fast will probably give it many many problems though.
In the best case this could be the missing piece in the picture:
Assault smash factories, which smashes gunlines, which smashes assault. Would be quite a good move from GW, fixing the game balance and boosting sales at the same time. Honestly i see this possible, its been the trend for many other things in 7E (which i don't dislike).
,... but thats just rumors,.. 
, 6 Fantasy's, and 5 
