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I was thinking relic blade and Plasma pistol right now...is there something more optimal than this? And the only models i have right now for SM are the Black Reach models.

A lot of people are iffy about plasma pistols, but I figure that since you're paying the points for BS5, it could be worth it, but only against MEQs. A dead Marine is a dead Marine!

Relic blade is great, but don't bother with the plasma pistol.

IMO the only reason to ever take a captain is if you want scoring bikes. Otherwise I just don't see the point. Yes he is decent at CC, but when you look at points-equivalent HQ choices from other races (warboss, hive tyrant, wolf lord) the captain doesn't put up much of a fight. The main reason is that he is vulnerable to instant-death. The above examples are either base T5 or they have eternal warrior.

So, in regards to equipping a captain, I'd go bike, relic blade, artificer armor.

Or the even better option, take a librarian or vulkan.

I would go with Relic blade and comi melta

Given the special character options and other HQ choices, a vanilla captain is rarely worth it.

A Captain w/ Relic Blade will cost you almost as many points as some of the special characters without any of the army-wide bonuses.

On the other hand, Khan will cost you 160, 205 with a bike, but he does insta-death on a 6 to wound, gives EVERYBODY outflank, and his own units gets Furious Charge and Hit & Run. Hmm...LC Assault Terminators, Hit & Run, Furious Charge, Outflanking!? Yeah...and it's only 60 points more than a totally bare bones Captain.

Vulkan...190...Comes with a master-crafted Relic Blade, digi-weapons, artificer armor, Heavy Flamer, 3+ invul (eq: stormshield), and makes every melta/flamer weapon in the whole army twin linked.

These are my two favorites, but laying down an AP3 flamer template with a Librarian is pretty nice too.



Just saying: for the price, there are better options. And you can get scoring bikes with Khan too.

khan on a bike is inferior in many ways to a biker captain geared out, remember.

he has worse saves, and is only str5 on the charge. a relic/ss/artificer biker captain is 10 points cheaper, and is a constant str6.

also, if your like me and hate using special characters, a biker captain is where its at.

Bike, Relic, and Shield.
The very 'knightly' build...something of a Questing Knight I guess.

Been doing well for me, he's like a over expensive and more fragile deamon prince

If all you have is the blackreach captain, I would take him as Artificer Armour, Relic Blade, Hellfire Rounds.

And if you have a spare 25 points lying around, you can call him a chapter master instead and play with the Orbital Bombardments.

Sanctjud wrote:Bike, Relic, and Shield.
The very 'knightly' build...something of a Questing Knight I guess.

Been doing well for me, he's like a over expensive and more fragile deamon prince

I like it, what he said.

i have a relic blade and a storm bolter and atifiver armor and digital wepons and hellfire rounds deadly in close combat and you drop pod him in

There are a lot of options, but I was thinking of the blackreach captain without having to mod the model onto a bike or taking his boltgun off and modding on a storm bolter, etc.

If you want to mod him, there are a TON of options, but if you are going to spend that much time and effort (and maybe money), why not look at another HQ choice instead? If you love the captain, cool. If not, there are lots of more competitive choices for most lists.

If you want a cheap HQ, go for a Libby or Cassius.

If you want a real HQ, go for a special character -they pump up your entire army, and there are 9 (i think) to choose from so there's always one right for the job. If you want speed go for Shrike, if you want an absolutly insane machine, go for Lysander, if you want a deadly short ranged army, go for Vulken etc. etc.

If you want a generic Captain, go for Sanctjud's build.

Yea, I'd say that would be generic... but that's GW's fault...

Initiative/high strength weapon? That over-shadows the rest.
Signature 3++s of the Vanilla Marines? Of course.

Bike for the speed/durability/ and getting bikers for troops...

I feel that's the only way to run a all-round HQ choice for a biker army... /shrug.

spycer wrote:If all you have is the blackreach captain, I would take him as Artificer Armour, Relic Blade, Hellfire Rounds.

And if you have a spare 25 points lying around, you can call him a chapter master instead and play with the Orbital Bombardments.

Honestly, I like this for a Captain, although maybe drop the Artificer Armor for the Chapter Master upgrade. He is a good all-rounder that can hang out with Sternguard, or Tac squads in lower points. His shooting is so good he effectively puts a free wound on. Joined with Sternguard they can go from a shooting squad to an assault squad at the drop of a hat. Its the best generalist build, which is my ideal SM army. They are an army of generalists, and I build them as such.

My captain carries Artifiver Armour, Relic, and hellfire. Along with his command squad. It works fine though is a BIG investment of points.

I run my captain with storm bolter and relic blade. his command squad all have storm bolters, and in a razor back. shoot 24" , and assault if their close enough.. yea they do work. If I have the points i put in hellfire rounds or digi weapons, and a PF in my command squad to garentee at least one kill in CC, its all around i guess.. but relic blades IMO are great

Space Marine Captain on bike , relic blade , meltabombs , combimelta

5 Man Bike Squad w/ Powerfist, meltabombs, 2 Meltaguns


It has never failed me.

I think it needs to be mentioned you can only legally take Hellfire Rounds on a Boltgun. "Note that Hellfire rounds can only be used in a boltgun." - page 100 of Codex: Space Marines.

I think the real boon to taking a Captain or Chapter Master is the squad he gives you access to. I've had some real success with uniquely equiped Command Squads. I've found them to be more cost effective as a generalist unit than the Honor Guard, which turns me away from the Chapter Master. However, if you want a close combat monster, you could do worse than the Honor Guard (5 power weapon attacks per member.. uuugh...).

Just get Vulcan.
Army-wide twin-linked flamers, multi-meltas, meltas, and master crafted thunderhammers?
Ya, that sounds rad.

lordrevege wrote:Just get Vulcan.
Army-wide twin-linked flamers, multi-meltas, meltas, and master crafted thunderhammers?
Ya, that sounds rad.

Unless you aren't heavily reliant on Meltas, Flamers and Thunderhammers. Personally, I like Lascannons to Meltaguns and Power Weapons to Thunderhammers in most scenarios. Obviously I still need a way to crack AV14, and Thunderhammers are good, but without me taking them at every opportunity it lessens Vulkan's value.

lordrevege wrote:Just get Vulcan.
Army-wide twin-linked flamers, multi-meltas, meltas, and master crafted thunderhammers?
Ya, that sounds rad.

You also lose Combat Tactics.

Whether or not losing Combat Tactics is good or bad depends on the points level.

If there is no space on the board combat tactics isn't very helpful to you where as the TL feature would be good.

Vulkan 'can' be good at lower points games, but because there's more space, Combat Tactics is allowed to shine...

My usual opponent is orks so combat tactic is basically a must.

Well, that's useful for you.
But what if he has Snikrot, what about fast elements...what points are we talking about.

Etc. etc., Combat Tactics is nice, but it can only do well in few situations...and can be taken advantedge of by the enemy making things REALLY bad.

It's a juggle, if there's room and clear of enemies, CT is nice if the opponent shoots at you, otherwise, you'd rather get re-rolls and kill as many orks as you can in the initial pop instead.

It's a pretty easy job to convert the AOBR captain's Bolter into a "customised storm bolter" -- just slice the barrel off (the last 2mm or so of the gun), & glue it back on again with a 2nd barrel off another bolter (everyone has spare bolters...), in an over-and-under style rather than side-by-side. It doesn't look like a standard SB, but I don't think that matters too much (and I didn't want to knacker the pretty scroll on the side).

The Captain is our Primary CC HQ. He is pretty points effective for what you get. The reason you don't see him often is because he is outshined by the special characters and the Librarian.

There are actually two reasons to field a Space Marine Captain.

Command Squad
Bikes as Troops


To me, my major emphasis is on the Command Squad, as you can get an Apothecary to give FNP to any other characters you may have in the army, and if they are equipped right, they can be just as cost effective as assault terminators in assault. Bike Command Squads serve their purpose as well.

As far as equipping the Captain, you want to field him in the most beneficially way to the rest of the force.

There are a few rules to consider.

Terminator Armor is overpriced and not worth it. You don't get a better armor save then what the artificer armor upgrade gives for cheaper. The only reason to be in TDA is if you need him to deepstrike with other Terminators, which is unnecessary most of the time.

Most people go for the Relic Blade as it greatly increases he CC effectiveness. I am fond of the Thunderhammer, especially if you bring Vulkan. The only other CC weapon besides those I would consider is a Lightning Claw, and only if he is riding with Kahn (and because Kahn has access to Command Squads, it's not really necessary to have the captain anyways).

So most of your good CC options deny you the extra attack for a CC weapon. That means you are not really prohibiting yourself when you put something into his other hand that also denies the attack. Storm Shield is a very valid option at this point, but not a necessary one. You already have an Iron Halo, so you have to ask yourself if the storm shield is really worth the points for a +1 to your Invulnerable save. Combi-weapons are a really attractive choice as well.

Taking a bike or a Jump Pack depends on the list you are fielding.

Yea, the Storm Shield is a personal taste issue.
I've had my captain charged by Grey Knight terminators and come out the victor.

In my experience it will always go on my captain...at the very least to goes with the whole 'Questing Knight' themeish.

I am a big fan of the "lysander" set up for space marine captain.
The relic blade/storm shield works marvelously well too, especially on a bike

I would do that if I wasn't risk averse.
I5 is pretty decent, and it's saved my Captain's tail many times.

Now, if we could purchase Eternal Warrior... ... ...

Sanctjud wrote:Now, if we could purchase Eternal Warrior... ... ...

Ah, those lucky Space Wolves. They don't know how good they have it.