Tankbustas revisited...Tyranid busters?

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**MeanGreenStompa**

Was leafing through the new tyranid codex and pondering all the big 'orrible beasties the bug player can now field.

My train of thought ran: Big bugs = no vehicles = no glory hogs rule crippling tankbustas... Potential for the tankbusta to see a comeback as giant pest control?

Has anyone tried this out?

**Cheese Elemental**

Seems like a reasonable enough idea. Carnifexes might be a problem though, because Tankbustas only get one rokkit shot each per turn, and Carnies have multiple wounds (and come in broods now).

**BeRzErKeR**

So take 15 of them. That's 5 rokkit hits per turn on average, wounding on 2s with no save.

**DarthDiggler**

I've always liked tankbustas.

**MinMax**

BeRzErKeR wrote:So take 15 of them. That's 5 rokkit hits per turn on average, wounding on 2s with no save.

That's also 225 points with no upgrades, that will simply dissolve when anything fires at them - Devourers, Venom Cannons, and the like will make short work of a Tankbusta unit.

**WarOne**

Might as well throw a Battlewagon full of Burnas into the mix against Nids, as the Burnas can disembark and power weapon if need be any of the big nasties in their path.

**bravelybravesirrobin**

Makes sense but you've still got the issue that they're really fragile and thus need a transport to get range and protect themselves.

Fortunately transports are also pretty strong choices vs nids, especially under KFF cover.

If you're tailoring for nid bashing then a battlewagon full of tankbustaz would definitely go down well.

But I srtill dispute their place in an all comers list.

**LunaHound**

I would aim my tank busta at the Tyranid Warriors...

**bravelybravesirrobin**

Well assuming there are any.

I'd be running over warriors with a deffrolla myself. Planning on trying that one out on Saturday (with a squad of nobz and a KFF inside). I'll let you know how it goes.

Instakilling the mid-bugs is going to be important for orks. Zoes, the Doom, Warriors, etc all need to die and fast.

**tokugawa**

Interesting. You can try it.

Seems not working for horde list(while they are as fragile as normal boyz), but may be useful in wagon list.

**FlyDog**

I think I just found a new reason to look at tankbustas....

**dumplingman**

not an ork player, but don't lootas still fulfill the same role at a greater range significantly better? Especially since most things don't have a 3+ save in the nid dex?

**Grey Templar**

Many of the big things have a 3+ save I think

**Da Boss**

15 Lootas shooting T6 3+ save:
You roll a 1 or 2: 5 hit, 3 wound, 1 failed save.
3 or 4: 10 hit, 6 wound, 2 failed saves.
5 or 6: 15 hit, 10 Wound, 3 failed saves.

15 Tankbustas: 5 Hit, 4/5 wound. Assuming no cover.

Tankbustas are also better vs Warriors, but Lootas have the advantage of being far away from the nids (probably outside of reprisal range) and not needing a transport, as well as doing a number on the gribblies.
I could see a role for tankbustas in a wagon vs nids, definitely. Give the wagon a deffrolla

.

**dumplingman**

I thought it was only carnifexes and tyranofexs that it. Fair point then. I don't have the codex at work

**Reecius**

That is a really good idea, Meangreestompa!

**Skarboy**

I like tankbustas in a lot of mechanized lists. There's only a handful of circumstances where Glory Hogs bites you, but when it does, it can really blow. But against Nids? That's what you call a target-rich environment.

I'd prefer TB over Lootas against Nids because of the ability to move and shoot. Lootas are vulnerable to deepstrikers and infiltrators, but you can pop TB in a wagon and run around zapping stuff from a safe distance. Plus, you can stack more rokkits/kannon on a battlewagon for additional fun and games.

**MorbidlyObeseMonkey**

As usual, Lootas do the same job better, and they are better for an all-comers list.

**40kenthusiast**

Except, ya know, they don't do the same job better. Da Boss just showed you the numbers. That's just shooting at fexes.

It's more pronounced when they shoot at warriors, or lictors, or spods, they are far more effective against the t4 nids.. Also, the trukk/wagon borne Bustas have an edge over the stationary lootas due to the Nids habit of coming from every direction at once.

Hard to believe, but this is finally a context within which the tankbustas exceed lootas.

**sexiest_hero**

I like tank bustas in a battle wagon, always have, and burnas in battlewagon. Just rocket the big uns and burn the lil uns. Tankbustas always do wonders agant mech lists for me. Run up, rocket/squig bomb, charge and grenade. It never fails in a battle wagon lists, they get a bad rep.

**MeanGreenStompa**

So, the majority feeling is of a suitability here, especially if in a vehicle...

What about tankhammers then? You can take two in the unit, replacing two rokkits. This means with furious charge, you get into combat with a carnifex and it's 6 S10 attacks at initiative 3 on the charge.

Too reliant on melee and changing the dynamic of the unit?
Takes away too much in terms of firepower?

**MorbidlyObeseMonkey**

However, the Lootas have 48 inch range. So they're shooting from turn 1 no matter what, and they're doing it safely. The numbers are fine but the Lootas gain the advantage when there's cover involved (MCs getting cover is not as rare as people seem to think), and it doesn't account for the fact that tankbustas will usually die faster than lootas because of their range. Also, Lootas are great against pretty much any army, while tankbustas are not (due to Glory Hogs). There is nothing wrong with rokkits; they are great on buggies and deffcoptas because they are fast and they don't have to deal with the inherent weaknesses of tankbustas.

**WarOne**

MeanGreanStompa has a point about the Tankhammer.

If you throw the Tankabustas in a transport a B-line them to intended 'nid monstrous critters, they could earn back their squad points because those tankhammers have a good shot at taking out almost anything.

Of course, that assumes they can get there. How would you get the Tankabustas into assaulting range of potential 'nid MCs and big point critters?

**gorgon**

I'll ditto Tankbustas (at least the Bwagon mounted variety) having an unwarranted bad rep. And they were a revelation the first time I ran them against 4th ed. Nidzilla.

One thing to keep in mind about Tyranids is that the medium bugs like Warriors can easily achieve cover saves, while MCs struggle to achieve cover. When you take cover into account, Warriors are often tougher than the MCs vs. S8+.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Tankhammers don't ignore armor saves, right? A Nob with Klaw would probably be more effective, although the mathhammer may prove otherwise (I'd do it but it's time for me to go home, LOL).

**Grey Templar**

I don't think the Tank hammas are power weapons, but the trade off is that you go first, have Str10 vs the Str8 of PKs. the MC will have to make a ton of saves before it gets to swing and 2 rounds of CC will see that MC go down, barring any support.

**Luke_Prowler**

Nobs with a power klaw are actually lousy against Tyranids, because they will swing first and throw more attacks at you than you could handle.

**schadenfreude**

Pros of tankbustas over lootas

Tank Bustas insta kill 3 wound tyranid warriors, 2 wound zoenthropes, and The Doom even when it's up to 10 wounds.

Lots of stuff in the nid army has a 3+ save that tankbustas ignore.

Cons of tankbustas

They need a transport both to help with their limited range and for protection. Nids shooting will tear through a truk, so they will probably need a battlewagon, but if the orks have wagons they need to take out zoenthropes asap.

**bravelybravesirrobin**

I think the cons are more that against everything that isn't nids they are less useful.

They are undeniably very strong against nids, particularly in the battlewagon.

Its whether it is worth it to put them in your list against other armies that's more the issue.

**DarkHound**

Why is everyone freaking out about Glory Hogs? Because your anti-tank units have to shoot at tanks...? Why else did you buy them?

**Skarboy**

DarkHound wrote:Why is everyone freaking out about Glory Hogs? Because your anti-tank units have to shoot at tanks...? Why else did you buy them?

How 'bout when you face an all Space Marine drop pod army? Glory Hogs makes you shoot at drop pods all game.
How 'bout when there's a squad of Space Marines holding an objective and you could wipe them out, but there's a wounded but not destroyed Rhino next to them that is completely meaningless? Glory Hogs makes you shoot the Rhino.
How 'bout when you're in range of a Daemon Prince, but there's an empty Chaos Rhino in line of sight 48" away? Glory Hogs makes you chase the Rhino.

These are just a few examples where Glory Hogs does suck HARD. No one's freaking out, and in most games, it's ok, you're shooting tanks, but I've had a lot of games where late they could be more useful but they were chasing the enemy's last Rhino or Wartrukk or Land Speeder for no reason at all. They could have made it so you could have a leadership test to overcome or you could ignore vehicles out of range (or that were damaged), but as is, it does tie your hands from time to time and that's why it blows.