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So this has made me finally decide to break my long standing silence on these forums.

My local GW store has recently made a few changes to the rules of being able to use their facilities. The local store has about a dozen gaming tables out the back (all decked out with terrain god bless them). Being a uni student, I'm also blessed with the ability to go in and play during the week when it's relatively quiet - however despite playing at the store purely for the off chance that I'll make a random purchase in order to continue supporting their business (most of my models are maelstrom bought) I'm considering relocating my gaming to a far more convenient (and friendlier and just as well equipped) comic book and hobby store.

A friend of mine informed me this evening after attending the regular Friday night gaming session that you are no loner welcome to play at the GW store if:

1) You don't have your own rulebook on your person
2) You don't have the specific codex for the army you are playing on your person
3) You don't bring your own templates, markers and dice
4) You proxy more than 10% of your models

My friends and I often will use an iPad or laptop to view a rulebook, or our own summaries of the rules for quick reference etc.

Up until tonight the GW store has offered up their own (battered and old) templates and blast markers for lend.

Up until tonight they haven't cared if you wanted to try out a few new models and proxy in a few units to see how things work - or even an entire army just so you can get the feel for it!

I can't help but feel this is some kind of GW wide initiative to drive sales and force people who want to play to spend more of their money in store. I'm also curious if anyone else has similar stories from their local GW stores. Please let me know what you think.

My apologies for the wall of text - I hope it doesn't crit too hard. Half a bag of wine was half the influence behind this thread.

Hurr.

Edit: Wine+spelling.... PHWOAR!!

Doesnt seem unreasonable to me - after all, GW own and operate the stores as a business and the gaming tables are their to supplement that - ie. to help drive the business. They are not there for the purpose of providing a gaming community (although that is what GW would have you believe).

I don't think it is unfair of them to demand that you use your own bought stuff rather than the store provide it?

Everything except #4 is more than reasonable.

They've asked you to use properly modelled armies rather than proxying, to bring the book they sell rather than the illegally-obtained PDF copy they don't, and to provide your own rulebooks and templates rather than using the store copy or simply taking them off the shelf?

Curs and scoundrels!

Hurrdurr2000 wrote:So this has made me finally decide to break my long standing silence on these forums.

My local GW store has recently made a few changes to the rules of being able to use their facilities. The local store has about a dozen gaming tables out the back (all decked out with terrain god bless them). Being a uni student, I'm also blessed with the ability to go in and play during the week when it's relatively quiet - however despite playing at the store purely for the off chance that I'll make a random purchase in order to continue supporting their business (most of my models are maelstrom bought) I'm considering relocating my gaming to a far more convenient (and friendlier and just as well equipped) comic book and hobby store.

A friend of mine informed me this evening after attending the regular Friday night gaming session that you are no loner welcome to play at the GW store if:

1) You don't have your own rulebook on your person
2) You don't have the specific codex for the army you are playing on your person
3) You don't bring your own templates, markers and dice
4) You proxy more than 10% of your models

My friends and I often will use an iPad or laptop to view a rulebook, or our own summaries of the rules for quick reference etc.

Up until tonight the GW store has offered up their own (battered and old) templates and blast markers for lend.

Up until tonight they haven't cared if you wanted to try out a few new models and proxy in a few units to see how things work - or even an entire army just so you can get the feel for it!

I can't help but feel this is some kind of GW wide initiative to drive sales and force people who want to play to spend more of their money in store. I'm also curious if anyone else has similar stories from their local GW stores. Please let me know what you think.

My apologies for the wall of text - I hope it doesn't crit too hard. Half a bag of wine was half the influence behind this thread.

Hurr.

Edit: Wine+spelling.... PHWOAR!!

Seriously? I'm not saying you're the cheapest mother on the planet, but this is your issue?

In the words of the immortal bard: sucker please.

I'm sorry if I was unclear, and I'm not even sure this will make a difference but;

Each PLAYER must have their own Rulebook, markers, templates and dice - otherwise you are politely asked to pack up the models you have with you and leave the gaming area.

Or have I been just too comfortable with the lax rules up until now?

Hurr.

When me and my friends go to our local store we always take our own dice,temps books etc but if you have forgotten anything you can usually borrow whatever it was from the shop no probs

Not letting you proxy things to test them out seems a bit draconian, but the rest doesn't strike me as odd.

Jokorey wrote:Everything except #4 is more than reasonable.

Not really. "You're not welcome to play here if you proxy more than 10% of your models" sounds fine to me. Cuts down on the spankers who have the ever so 'fun' constantly weapon switching symptom going on for their "custom converted special weapons troopers" or who constantly alter their list based upon the opponent they will be facing--but don't have the proper models and insist on playing the "pretend this is X when it's really Y which was effective against my last opponent but X will be more effective against you!".

Remember that "proxying" isn't exclusively "this Terminator with a large, cumbersome looking greatsword and storm shield counts as, effectively for rules purposes, Thunder Hammer+Storm Shield". It's also "this green army man counts as my Marneus Calgar".

A PDF is not necessarily illegally obtained. I don't want to get into the "scanning my own purchased copy" technicalities but what about if it's the WH or (for a while longer) DH books? I also think the no proxies thing is dumb but who's really going to enforce that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:Cuts down on the spankers who have the ever so 'fun' constantly weapon switching symptom going on for their "custom converted special weapons troopers" or who constantly alter their list based upon the opponent they will be facing--but don't have the proper models and insist on playing the "pretend this is X when it's really Y which was effective against my last opponent but X will be more effective against you!".

A sincere question, if your opponent is okay with proxying what is the harm?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Not letting you proxy things to test them out seems a bit draconian, but the rest doesn't strike me as odd.

It is a bit weird, yeah. But I'm sure if you explained "I want to test this out before I buy it here and now", you'd get a free pass on that one.

Unless of course you're playing the empty base game.

Not letting you proxy things to test them out seems a bit draconian, but the rest doesn't strike me as odd.

This was infact my main issue - I kind of just added the rest in, in an attempt to paint them in the most villainous light possible.

This afternoon I was asked by one of the in store disciples of Gudarian to please either use the CURRENT Dark Eldar models or end my game.

Kanluwen wrote:It is a bit weird, yeah. But I'm sure if you explained "I want to test this out before I buy it here and now", you'd get a free pass on that one.

Unless of course you're playing the empty base game.

Yeah. I don't want to start up with saying OP is an unreliable narrator but I think a no proxying rule is going to be hard to enforce even if the redshirts actually would bother to try.

I dunno if this is a GW-wide thing, because it sounds just plain dumb to force everyone in the store to do have dice/templates/rule books on them.

Hurrdurr2000 wrote:This afternoon I was asked by one of the in store disciples of Gudarian to please either use the CURRENT Dark Eldar models or end my game.

What does this phrase mean?

Hurrdurr2000 wrote:This afternoon I was asked by one of the in store disciples of Gudarian to please either use the CURRENT Dark Eldar models or end my game.

Ok, assuming that's true then that is going too far. You have the older Dark Eldar models and no GW store should stop you from using them.

im guessing a staff member

What does this phrase mean?

Gudarian was one of Hitlers more successful generals. Again, let's just blame the wine.

Anywho, regardles; I don't know if the attendant was just in a gakky mood or if he was legitimately upset that I'm using the oldschool DE models that aren't PRECISELY WYSIWYG.

(Granted, I didn't have the new codex and I was using 1500 points worth of old models - but hey! I wanted to get a flavour for the way the new army works)

I was politely asked to quickly end my game.

Kanluwen wrote:Unless of course you're playing the empty base game.

Yeah, there's always that. The ol' Coke Bottle Carnifex probably shouldn't be used, but, say, something like repping Striking Scorpions as Banshees just to test Banshees out isn't that much of a stretch.

Hurrdurr2000 wrote:My apologies for the wall of text - I hope it doesn't crit too hard. Half a bag of wine was half the influence behind this thread.

Edit: Wine+spelling.... PHWOAR!!

Okay, I love this. I absolutely love this.

I understand you're a cheapskate uni student. I was one as well, that's why I understand and love where you're coming from.

Normally, wine doesn't come in bags. It comes in bottles. Cheap bottles can run about $5.

Sometimes even $5 is too much. Again, I understand. When cheap bottles are too much, what do you get? The box.

The glorious box of wine. A gallon of wine for about $15. Clearly the most wine you can get for the dollar. But what does the box of wine have to do with bags of wine?? Well my friends, inside the box of wine is the 1 gallon shiny mylar airtight bag of wine. The bag of wine that only becomes relevant when you are so tight that after you've gotten the box pretty much empty, you bust open the box and pull out the bag to squeeze out every last dreg of $2/bottle-equivalent mylar bagged wine, because you just can't afford to let the lukewarm grit that's been aging in aluminium foil go un-drunk.

And I admire you for it.

Hurrdurr2000 wrote:I was politely asked to quickly end my game.

It sounds like your plan to relocate your gaming is a good one.

Manchu wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Cuts down on the spankers who have the ever so 'fun' constantly weapon switching symptom going on for their "custom converted special weapons troopers" or who constantly alter their list based upon the opponent they will be facing--but don't have the proper models and insist on playing the "pretend this is X when it's really Y which was effective against my last opponent but X will be more effective against you!".

A sincere question, if your opponent is okay with proxying what is the harm?

Again: "proxying" is such a broad category that it's hard to pin down one effective definition and you really need to go on a case by case basis. At least, in my own opinion it is.

If someone were to come in to a shop that I was running under the rules outlined by the OP and say "Here's my Inquisition counts-as Imperial Guard army. The Inquisitors and their retinues are all WYSIWYG and are the Command Squads. The Inquisitorial Stormtroopers are Hardened Veterans with the Grenadiers upgrade" and it's clear that they put a lot of work into it to make it effective and clear to the casual observer what everything is?

It's perfectly acceptable and I'd go out of my way to ensure that their army got held up as an example of what's an 'acceptable proxy army'.

But if that same person had come in with an army that was a hodgepodge collection of random models from various armies at random time periods, with paint slapped on haphazardly and no real effort put into making sure things are clear to the casual observer?

I'd make sure that they were aware of a 10% proxy rule and that it's fine for the first time they play there, but in the future to be aware that a little cohesive effort goes a long way.

These don't seem unreasonable requests to me.

The only one I wonder about is the proxy rule. Perhaps some folks have been showing up with silly proxies and there have been some shenanigans. Experimenting with proxies with an opponent you know is one thing, showing up to games against virtual strangers with 'yeah it's a marine with a flamer but it's actually a marine with a plasma gun' or 'yeah it's a marine with a flamer but it's actually an ork nob with a pk' is going to irritate and cause confusion.

Constantly showing up with your 20 year old space marine army of tatters and lagged paint to each game and saying one week their blood angels and the next their iron warriors or space wolves will also annoy.

And yes, it's a shop so selling things is a fairly understandable motivation. You should own your own templates and books in order to use their tables.

I support GW's decision here.

Okay, Kan. I certainly agree with those points.

Hurrdurr2000 wrote:I'm sorry if I was unclear, and I'm not even sure this will make a difference but;

Each PLAYER must have their own Rulebook, markers, templates and dice - otherwise you are politely asked to pack up the models you have with you and leave the gaming area.

Or have I been just too comfortable with the lax rules up until now?

Hurr.

Whats wrong with putting the AOBR-rulebook and your codex, together with your templates and your own dice (you don't touch another mans (or girls) dice) in the bag? It's not like that adds considerable weight to your pack.

The house rules don't seem too unreasonable to me. I'd actually encourage rules like this just to keep the ones never buying anything and using paper cups as drop pods away from my store. To onlookers and casual observers it does look better with as few proxied models as possible, which most likely equals more sales. Not to mention if someone use figures from a competing range... -.-

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Unless of course you're playing the empty base game.

Yeah, there's always that. The ol' Coke Bottle Carnifex probably shouldn't be used, but, say, something like repping Striking Scorpions as Banshees just to test Banshees out isn't that much of a stretch.

Yeah, it definitely isn't a stretch in my book.

Unless of course you've got Striking Scorpions in your army too.

Then things get a bit awkward

I guess you're right Pixel and Kan does make some good points. I guess the gripe is mostly coming from the area of - I'm a pennyless student currently but sincerely wish to play. Yet if I want to be a regular I'll have to fork over the noodle dollars to play my army.

Yea, I'm just not seeing a problem here either. Even #4 seems fine; I've seen proxies go way to far.

I've always wondered if redshirts would try talking this way to an adult not dressed in an Iron Maiden tshirt.

Hmm...you mentioned that this was in conjunction with a Friday night...usually these nights are a bit busier than most, and I can understand these restrictions as a way of decreasing the level of chaos (no pun intended ) that tends to prevail in crowded GW stores. Maybe there is another time you can come in to play, when it isn't so busy? They might be more willing to let you use proxies etc.