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weetyskemian44 wrote:I for one would love to see some new finished minis. I guess I will have to wait patiently! the converted heads look great - are you converting the entire armour or just the head?

You can't possibly want to see progress worse than I do.

After I finish Arakasi's nob, I'll take a break from my trades and finish the venerable dread... then a trade, then a sternguard, etc. That way I make good faith progress on my trades while still not completely forsaking my own progress.

Stop repeating yourself Gits its a sign of old age.

Stop repeating yourself Gits its a sign of old age.

LOL

You have no idea how right you are. I couldn't remember if I'd hit the submit button (apparently my post was lost in the ether) so I paged back and hit the submit again.

*sigh*

I like the justification of where the names are coming from. I was thinking though, do the Mantis Warriors get a new homeworld after their crusade or do they end up like a permanent crusader army recruiting wherever they go?

Not sure. Maybe IA9 or IA10 will say, but I couldnt find it in the current fluff. Btw, that the Space Sharks got it makes it even more of an insult

Gitsplitta wrote:As far as the re-painted army is concerned, there is hardly anything to photograph. 4 sternguard & 2 dreads is it. If you want to see my functional army, look at my battle report a few pages back.

will do! i thought you had a huge army made up! i will lok soon!


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found the pics, it was nice to go back and see what organically grabbed my attention with this blog!

As to the home world situation...

There's nothing official dealing with the home world situation. They *must* have a source of recruits since returning from crusade, but there's no telling if they would have been given their original home world back or have been given a new one. I suspect that the Space Shark presence on their original home world would have been very unwelcome and probably led to unrest, revolt and subsequent violent quelling of the rebellion by the sharks... and perhaps that was the ultimate punishment. The ruination of the Mantis home world by a rival chapter with the tacit "approval" of the Imperium. I imagine that giant mantids that would have served as the right of passage for MW scouts would have been hunted to near extinction and bits of them decorate the quarters and gear of Space Shark commanders across the galaxy. Entire generations of people would have been raised under the yoke of Space Shark oppression and occupation, and long-held traditions and cultures would lie shattered and broken.

Given this... the last part... the cruelist part of the punishment for rebellion... would be to return the shattered remnants of their home world to the Mantis Warriors, so they could see what their betrayal had wrought.

I could also see that secretly, the Mantis Warriors would vow to bring about the destruction of the Space Sharks in whatever ways were afforded to them, however long it took.



We'll see what the IA's bring, but I don't expect much... nor would I feel bound to adhere to it.

Is there really a chapter called the space sharks...


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or am i missing out on a joke!

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Space_Sharks

They have been renamed for the new IA books however. But no pulling of chain at this time.

whalemusic360 wrote:http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Space_Sharks

They have been renamed for the new IA books however. But no pulling of chain at this time.

What? They were renamed? Are they now the Sharks from Space?

Yup, if i wasnt tired and going to the realm of ...zzzZZZZZzzz... I'd link ya. maybe morrow.

Theyre now called the Carcharodons or something. Stoopid idea in the first place, like rainbow warriors!!

I guess back in the day they didn't have the inquisition rooting out the daft, twee and kitsch! I think space sharks are slightly less daft than rainbow warriors (who are named after a greenpeace boat?); Far too happy sounding for the 41st millenium.

whalemusic360 wrote:
So the older marines with the roman names could be the vets from the old homeworld. The new Asian names could be from where ever they are getting new recruits. The fluff is almost asking you to change naming schemes.

I like the idea of keeping roman names for the Veterans, that's pretty nice... Maybe for the Tranquility Detachment?

I'd maybe have another possible reason for the change in names.

On Space Marine Homeworld, the population are almost always warriors & warmongers; what if the then-dominant Caucasian "race", who was the main resource for recruitment, had seen most of his best young soldiers sent to the Mantis Warriors to make up for the losses in the early years of the Badab War? After a few years, its former glory waned in favor of the Asian "race", hence forcing the MW to move the bulk of the recruitment to the rising Japan-style nations?

In the last moments of the Badab War, only the veterans would then be of Roman tradition, with the young bloods having Asian roots...

Which could lead to some interesting inner conflicts & plots fluff-wise, and would join Whalemusic's theory about veterans!

Gitsplitta wrote:As to the home world situation...

"The ruination of the Mantis home world by a rival chapter with the tacit "approval" of the Imperium. "

"Given this... the last part... the cruelist part of the punishment for rebellion... would be to return the shattered remnants of their home world to the Mantis Warriors, so they could see what their betrayal had wrought."

"I could also see that secretly, the Mantis Warriors would vow to bring about the destruction of the Space Sharks in whatever ways were afforded to them, however long it took."

I especially like the forced returned to their shattered homeworld... It would really be in line with these dark ages & the Inquisition's "subtle" ways, and would even ensure the weakening of the MW's influence, for the population would surely consider the MW to have forsaken them in the face of tyrants & butchers! They could prove to be reluctant in sending their young boys to those that have betrayed them...
And this could further foster the grudges against the Space Sharks (whose name sounds cool for us non-English natives, but probably looks as ridiculous for those that are English native speaker as it is for me in French : "Les Requins de l'Espace"! Sounds like a poor name for an even poorer cartoon )

Yggdrasil wrote:I like the idea of keeping roman names for the Veterans, that's pretty nice... Maybe for the Tranquility Detachment?

I'm liking this idea & it goes along well with where my thinking was going as well.

Yggdrasil wrote: maybe have another possible reason for the change in names.

Interesting, though I'm not sure from the fluff if recruits could be hurried through the system like that. I thought that chapter's would visit a world once a generation or so and only find a few worthy recruits. It does make for some interesting dynamics though. Who knows? Perhaps the chapter's participation in the Badab war was linked to some struggle for power on their home world, when the battle was lost the Romans were discredited and the Asian culture came to prominence, as such all post-crusade recruits would come from that culture (primarily)?

Yggdrasil wrote:I especially like the forced return to their shattered homeworld... It would really be in line with these dark ages & the Inquisition's "subtle" ways, and would even ensure the weakening of the MW's influence, for the population would surely consider the MW to have forsaken them in the face of tyrants & butchers! They could prove to be reluctant in sending their young boys to those that have betrayed them...
And this could further foster the grudges against the Space Sharks.

Interesting point... I'll have to consider this in the context of the whole.

Maybe the sharks genocided the roman culture knowing it would piss the MW off.

that sounds a little too chaotic. and i am pretty sure the imperium would be pretty pissed if they found out that the Space Sharks genocided half a race. btw good thing they changed the name Space Sharks it abretion SS would set some bad blood with some pepoel.

Not if they thought they roman population was the reason for the MW rebellion to begin with. They it would be open field day, sponsored by the Inquisition.

im so sad a chapter is called space sharks, can we please kill them off.

i think a genocide would make sense as whalemusic says in the post above. maybe a mass suicide could be in order, or something more natural such as a plague, thou the people would see it as punishment from the god-marines

I dont think there is anything wrong with the name space sharks - what gets me is their daft emblem!

mass suicide is something i would sooner expect from the asian side. no offense but they have a history doing that when there defeated hirakiri (if i typed it right).

and you are right never thoughed about a rebellion.

ahh but romans were a bit keen on suicide for the disgraced warrior too - at least if Shakespeare's Julius Caesar is to be believed. But maybe not mass suicide I'll give you that

I do not see mass suicide as an option for a people strong enough and fierce enough to provide source material for space marines. Genocide, perhaps... suicide, no.

but pride Git pride can mak you do a lot of things. and if i was space marine material i would have a lot of pride. and there the dominant race there they felt there pride taken away by the MW maybe that set them off.

@ fatty: that is what i thought. pride can make people do some crazy things. It could even be pious thought: that they are joining the emperor and the god-marines in space. Or i was thinking of the Buddist burning themselves on the streets. It is a symbol of not being under the control of the tyrant, that they can take the planet but the people can't be taken. and it sure takes a ton of willpower to sit down burning in front of a city hall building! I'm sure a marine scout wanna-be would have that willpower.

and i understand the idea of that feeling more asian, but if you look into history mass suicides have been done all over the world so it isn't really more-so for one culture or not.

IA9 is a very interesting read. Sadly, it looks like most of the Mantis Warriors fluff will be in IA10.

Sad for you, that is. I play Lamenters!

Possibly (regarding the Asian/Caucasian problem), if the Inq saw that the prominent "traitors" in the chapter were of the Caucaision race, assuming that they held the majority of seats of power, then the Inq might have completely destroyed the old system.
I.E. lots of investigations into powerful Romans, with hte Space Sharks assisting against possible uprising.

Afterwards, then the old system of Roman 'rule' would have crumbled and the Asians would have taken the fore, with possibly more and more off-woulder Asians recolonizing the planet.

Possibly?

I like that DE... while I understand the mass suicide idea, it just doesn't feel right. Yours however, feels appropriately big brotherish to be plausible.

A bit like the first battle for Armageddon, a planet too valuable to destroy, so they remove the indigenous population and supplant them with another.

It p.o'd Logan Grimnar who swore vengeance against the administratum because of it..... maybe the MW's see what has happened to their homeworld in a similar light (good honest strong people standing up for themselves, being done away with).

With their world shattered and a home they barely recognise, their ire is raised against the Space Sharks for allowing such a travesty to occur.

Maybe fearing a taint on the homeworld infected the chapter and the peoples the space sharks and inquisition kept the new people under their gumboots.

It is now down to the Mantis Warriors to rebuild and re-educate the populace in the honourable ways from a time before these settlers came and lead them (sort of a hearts and minds thingy). Might be stupid, but could reverse things and have Asian names for elites and roman names for new recruits (new settlers)

Another alternative would be that the (Roman)population faced decimation after the mantis warriors left. 1 in 10 killed (by their own) as a punishment for a crime they barely understood and then kept under the heel of the Space Sharks.

Due to the losses and the loss of trust from the Imperium, the more asian caste began to influence then dominate the socio-political scene on their homeworld.

Mantis Warriors then have the chance to select recruits from less numerous romans or more powerful/ numerically superior asians

Going off on tangents.... too much going through my brain information overload and its way late here..... just found this and it is amazing.

I need to shut up now

Just took a moment to read some of the back and forth on the naming system and fluff and I have to say, as much as I already liked this order of SMs, the rivalry and genocidal grudge brings so much more to it.
Great bit of background, even just in that one paragraph. I don't think it has to be full blown genocide. Rather just culling the strongest and must rebellious against the SS, the wealthier too. Stealing all of the resources and dignity from the planet and it's people.