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wuestenfux wrote:

Nuclear_Bomb wrote:I just picked up the WD yesterday, and I was impressed with the rules.

The systems of faith points looks strange to me.
If you roll bad at the start of a turn, you gonna end up with no faith acts.

Yes. This is true. But I like the way they change the shield of faith. That's gong to annoy some /a lot people.

A few simple ideas how the sisters still could become awsome:
The Simulacrum Imperialis (don't know how it's named in english, in C:WH it allowd you to roll 3D6 for faith) allows the unit carring it to use the same powers of faith as any other unit also carring a Simulacrum Imperialis.

Incendary rounds on the immolator making it's shots 'blast'

Loud hailers force the enemy to take an LD test or run away.

Simulacrum Imperialis allows you to reroll the 6++ making it nearly as good as 5++

Sisters cost 8Points

Repentia cost 10

Seraphin cost 15

..
.
.
.
Sisters aren't dead yet. Sisters were never played because they were 'uber'. People playing sisters do so, because they've got style.
And they still have style. If you have a problem running a not-top-tier-army jump on the GK bandwagon and leave the sisters to the veterans.

von Hohenstein wrote:
Sisters aren't dead yet. Sisters were never played because they were 'uber'. People playing sisters do so, because they've got style.
And they still have style. If you have a problem running a not-top-tier-army jump on the GK bandwagon and leave the sisters to the veterans.

Don't mind if they arn't top tier, just that they shouldn't be very bottom tier either. With Necrons and Tau getting updates probably before SoB then that is probably where they will end up.

Honestly there shouldn't be so clear of a top tier where an army is obviously gimped, but considering the 10 year cycle it takes for GW to update stuff it's hard to maintain a consistent strategy for how rules are balanced. However I agree with the previous poster that if you want to win with an underpowered army just play 250-500 points down and don't root against a functional force for the people that want that.

All I'm hoping for out of the wargear section from a realistic point of view is:
Laud hailer makes some kind of bubble of stubborn
Simulacrum Imperialis makes a reroll for faith checks (I understand the new faith powers are meh but it's something reasonable within the scope of the magazine codex)
Some item that squad leaders can buy which allows for one free faith a turn (tested like normal but doens't require a faith point to use).

My pie in the sky wishes that I know won't happen are:
Power weapon or +1S/+1I upgrade for Celestians
Space Marine S6 AP3 flame cannon or fast upgrade for Immolators

I didn't even think of the possibility that the amount of special weapons might go down in certain squads and now I'm even more bummed...

ceorron wrote:
With Necrons and Tau getting updates probably before SoB then that is probably where they will end up.

I tend to think the fact they've recieved this article show's they're farther along with an update than Tau. Necrons we've heard murmurings on, but nothing to show how far along that is. We admitedly don't have too much precedent to go on but there was only about a year between the Blood Angel WD article codex and the actual book. I imagine that we're looking at a similar time frame. It's also been mentioned from a game designer, a while ago, that they'd already started looking at SoB in plastic, but had issues with how the sleaves into the shoulders were working. Both show imply a degree of maturity that exceeds Tau.

von Hohenstein wrote:Sisters aren't dead yet. Sisters were never played because they were 'uber'. People playing sisters do so, because they've got style.
And they still have style. If you have a problem running a not-top-tier-army jump on the GK bandwagon and leave the sisters to the veterans.

Done and done. My armies are Sisters and Tau. Just started up a GK army though (nothing with an AV, pure foot MeQ GK), the models are awesome, and always playing as the neglected red-headed step-children of 40k is getting a bit old. It'll be Sisters for 'Ard Boyz prelims again (won my prelims with them last year... heres for the repeat), then the GK will take care of things from there.

aka_mythos wrote:
We admitedly don't have too much precedent to go on but there was only about a year between the Blood Angel WD article codex and the actual book. I imagine that we're looking at a similar time frame.

Except that, as has already been frequently pointed out, a year from now is the expected release of the next edition rules. And since the schedule only allows for the obligatory release of the boxed set and a marine codex afterwards, you're looking at 2013 before you can expect to see a Sisters codex.

Ixquic wrote:Honestly there shouldn't be so clear of a top tier where an army is obviously gimped, but considering the 10 year cycle it takes for GW to update stuff it's hard to maintain a consistent strategy for how rules are balanced. However I agree with the previous poster that if you want to win with an underpowered army just play 250-500 points down and don't root against a functional force for the people that want that.

There's a difference between trying to find a silver lining, and embracing the cloud. I would much rather the second half comes out and reveals clearly and decisively what the ultimate design goals for the army are, and all of us turn around and make a unified exclamation of realisation as we see immediately how this new Codex: Sisters of Battle can be made competitive and characterful. It's wise not to confuse a determination to remain positive in the face of adversity with an acceptance that the adversity should exist in the first place.

gr1m_dan wrote:

SabrX wrote:

I fear the new Sisters of Battle might fall into the lower tier, next to Tau and Necrons.

Good - I like a challenge.

If anything it will be interesting to play and we never know what the armoury will bring us.

Although it best not change our Exorcist ;-) THEN I would be mad :(

Exorcist will be changed to heavy 4. I'd be really surprised if it stayed D6. Almost nothing has variable shots anymore.

Effective sisters lists were a bit of a mono build before, they will once again be a bit of a monobuild once again. Just what that build will be will be somewhat different.

Thats because the last time sisters had a codex was 2nd edition. The last codex was Witch Hunters, not sisters. The same can be said for this WD list. Its not a dedicated sisters list.

Eumerin wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:
We admitedly don't have too much precedent to go on but there was only about a year between the Blood Angel WD article codex and the actual book. I imagine that we're looking at a similar time frame.

Except that, as has already been frequently pointed out, a year from now is the expected release of the next edition rules. And since the schedule only allows for the obligatory release of the boxed set and a marine codex afterwards, you're looking at 2013 before you can expect to see a Sisters codex.

Yes I understand sometime gratification isn't instantaneous enough... GW makes little distinction between non-marine armies, so there is a perfectly reasonable chance SoB will be the next army after that. My Chaos Dwarfs spent year waiting to be updated, lets not get greedy... my squats and LatD are still waiting. GW has finite resources that it can use on projects, based on earning potential. The profitability of every space marine release gurantees that less profitable armies, like SoB only have to meet a lower threshold of profit to be succesful. I don't even play SoB and I want to see them done... just like I want to see Necron and Tau done. I think its a travesty that some of the most distinctive armies have been left to wayside in favor of some of the least. That said, I've never thought it made much sense for GW to release the marine codex the way they do. They could release it the same day as the new rule book and it would sell just as well.

maybe one of the characters make one of the elites troop????

Marthike wrote:maybe one of the characters make one of the elites troop????

I think at this point its a given that some character will make some elite a troop.

Jayden63 wrote:Exorcist will be changed to heavy 4. I'd be really surprised if it stayed D6. Almost nothing has variable shots anymore.

Orks would like to have a word with you.

All of the special rules for all of the units/models are already out in this current WD. There currently is no character with this ability therefore it will not exist before the next codex for sisters comes out.

Except that those rules are in the army list, not in the bestiary entry that has been revealed (see Coteaz, Draigo, Belial, Wazdakka, etc.).

That being said, I would find it unlikely if any did so. I do however think Celestians will be troops. The only thing I could see (and it would be pretty cool) would be a Jumpack Cannoness being able to take Seraphim as troops. That would also make the nerf to Seraphim make more sense.

Magister187 wrote:That being said, I would find it unlikely if any did so.

I would be thoroughly disappointed if this was the case - unless, for example, named characters could allow you to take more Command Squads or Conclaves instead (a la Calgar).

Marthike wrote:maybe one of the characters make one of the elites troop????

I'd love to see a char making Penitent Engines or Sisters Repentia troops That would be funny...

Haven't the most recent ones been named characters making things troops? The only one I could see there is potentially Celestine making Seraphim troops, but even that might be a stretch.

Zefig wrote:Haven't the most recent ones been named characters making things troops? The only one I could see there is potentially Celestine making Seraphim troops, but even that might be a stretch.

I could see Celestine allowing you to take three Sororitas Command Squads. Or Kyrinov letting you take multiple Conclaves, or Conclaves as Troops choices, to represent his charismatic rabble-rousing.

ceorron wrote:

von Hohenstein wrote:
Sisters aren't dead yet. Sisters were never played because they were 'uber'. People playing sisters do so, because they've got style.
And they still have style. If you have a problem running a not-top-tier-army jump on the GK bandwagon and leave the sisters to the veterans.

Don't mind if they arn't top tier, just that they shouldn't be very bottom tier either. With Necrons and Tau getting updates probably before SoB then that is probably where they will end up.

I thought it was Necrons in late october/november, and sisters in january or febuary? Tau are either coming out right before 6th edition in like may/june or after 6th in august september followed by eldar. Or at least thats how I heard it.

Tabitha wrote:
I thought it was Necrons in late october/november, and sisters in january or febuary? Tau are either coming out right before 6th edition in like may/june or after 6th in august september followed by eldar. Or at least thats how I heard it.

We don't know what's going on with Sisters after next month's WD. If GW follows the same pattern that was used right before Fantasy 8th edition, then there will only be two more releases. The expected Necron release will be similar to the Skaven release on the time table, with another release early next year matching the release of Beastmen. I wouldn't expect to see any new codices for 40K between whatever is released early next year and the obligatory late year marine codex.

schadenfreude wrote:

Melissia wrote:Meh, the only uint that really needed grenades was celestians. And they got nerfed to the point where they're now only really useful with an attached canoness against dedicated assault armies, so....

I have the feeling Repentia and the henchmen will be the populr choices for cc.

Was the old regroup miracle roll under or over squad size?

Sisters are meant to be a close range shooting army anyway. It's not like they're designed with these rules or written in the fluff to be able to outfight space marines or tyranids in combat. Not even orks. The burn them up then chainsaw the remains, they don't get lauded for their close combat skills honed over hundreds of years or their genetic engineering like every other CC army has. They're just humans in some heavy armor with big short ranged guns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:Exorcist will be changed to heavy 4. I'd be really surprised if it stayed D6. Almost nothing has variable shots anymore.

Orks would like to have a word with you.

It really depends on the army. Armies that are supposed to be random or have random effects do. Thus chaos, daemons and orks have quite a few but marines and eldar variants typically have none. There are outliers though and the blood bloods still have their blood rage while the manticore is random shots. I'd prefer it not be D6 since thats stupid but it's fully possible.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

von Hohenstein wrote:Sisters aren't dead yet. Sisters were never played because they were 'uber'. People playing sisters do so, because they've got style.
And they still have style. If you have a problem running a not-top-tier-army jump on the GK bandwagon and leave the sisters to the veterans.

I think where you got them wrong is that you assumed they were played before. Tournament showings and general box sales indicate otherwise strongly.

If I don't see a Psyocculum as an option I'm going to be angry. Give us at least a nod to one of the Sister's legitimate functions.

There's still a chance some HQ option turns Fast Attack or Elites into troops. It could be written into the army list section.

SabrX wrote:There's still a chance some HQ option turns Fast Attack or Elites into troops. It could be written into the army list section.

Indeed - those rules always appear in the army list section, rather than the bestiary. Keeping my fingers crossed - we'd be the first codex in years not to gain an effect like that if we don't.

ShumaGorath wrote:
It really depends on the army. Armies that are supposed to be random or have random effects do. Thus chaos, daemons and orks have quite a few but marines and eldar variants typically have none. There are outliers though and the blood bloods still have their blood rage while the manticore is random shots. I'd prefer it not be D6 since thats stupid but it's fully possible.

We still have the new faith system for the random thing !

Heavy 4 would be welcome anyway, I think ... but I feel like the Heavy D6 will be still there.... :/ dunno...

Grenat wrote:
Heavy 4 would be welcome anyway, I think ... but I feel like the Heavy D6 will be still there.... :/ dunno...

I bet you a shiny pound coin that they do something stupid like make us have to use faith points to get it to work properly without spazzing out and blasting itself/shutting down for a turn.

Pfft Astartes wish they could take out a whole hemisphere's population. Kinda hard to do that with only one magazine for your weapon on you when there are millions to billions of targets.

You know when the marines 30 bolt shells run out he just starts to whack the population dead with his fists. If he is really methodical and starts at one pole and slowly works himself up to the opposite pole he might just make it given a couple hundred years
There is a hillareous thread about bolter recoil somewhere on dakka with a bunch of fanboys claiming fluff is so sacred everything must be as it is written.

Well this is the advantage of ecclesiarchy's continued wide spread presence. The ecclesiarchy is suppose to be present on nearly every Imperial world, in some fashion. It doesn't matter where the SoB comes from because the primary quality they look for is a strength of faith and not physical prowess. The latter I'm sure is part of it, but not necessarily the main one.

There is no or very limited ecclestariary presence on the really tough death worlds the Astartes recruit from.
I would like to see the church try and steal potential recruits or take from their immediate gene relatives on Mcragge or Nocturne.

There's a reason for no assassins and Inquisitors. They're moving Sisters of Battle away from the Inquisition and reflecting the way that they've been for a long time in the fluff. They work alongside the Ordo Hereticus, but they're not subservient to it.

That would be a nice thing to differ them from the GK of the malleous. One millitant arm working more separate from the =I= and one working with the =I=.

As for razor/immolator gun lines I think it all depends on the upcoming 6:th ed rules.
It might very well spell the end of the razor gun line for all we know if some of the rumors are true and thus remove a potential SoB weakness right there.
More so on the numbers of sisters, they are mainly used to protect the biggest church assets and strongholds such as the main shrine worlds with smaller forces guarding or patrolling or protecting pilgrims in select places whereas the astartes need to protect basically the whole of the Imperial space and do so against the most dangerous of its enemies. No wonder there are more of them needed then.
There is a reason the high lords ordered more and more astartes foundings over and over again and not more and more sororitas.
The churches private little elite army vs the Emperors used everywhere is quite telling on the numbers needed.

Pyriel- wrote:

Pfft Astartes wish they could take out a whole hemisphere's population. Kinda hard to do that with only one magazine for your weapon on you when there are millions to billions of targets.

You know when the marines 30 bolt shells run out he just starts to whack the population dead with his fists.

And then they get shot to death by lots and lots of high caliber explosive ordnance. Thirty dead Astartes litter the battlefield THE END.

And err... in recruiting for the Sisters of Battle, the Ecclesiarchy's Schola Progenium wouldn't actually be "stealing recruits" from the Marines. Because Marines are male-only. Sisters are female-only. Dunno if you noticed, Pyriel.

Pyriel- wrote:I would like to see the church try and steal potential recruits or take from their immediate gene relatives on Mcragge or Nocturne.

They don't need to 'steal' potential recruits. Is there a Schola Progenium in the Ultima Segmentum? Most likely. Are there orphans left by Imperial servants? Most definitely. Are some of them female? Presumably.

You're assuming competition where none exists - I can find no fluff supporting the idea that the Astartes kidnap Progenia from their dorms when looking for potential recruits, and the Adepta Sororitas recruit (as far as fluff tells us) exclusively from the Schola or in certain exceptional cases they take Novitiates 'gifted' to them by the Arbites. And, most important of all? There are no female space marines. Irrespective of skills and natural aptitude, gender is a bit of a barrier for both Astartes and Sororitas recruitment - they can't compete, because both have a mutually exclusive recruitment criterion.