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Storm Lord wrote:It'll be down the back of the sofa

Horus lost it there when he read the last WD!

I think the Imperium will have some random burst of greatness, before it turns into eldar empire 2 and blows itself to bits, making a new empire in its place.

I like the idea WD is still going that far into the future. You'd figure the Emp would have learned from it.

As for a burst of greatness, the Imp's are scared of tech, so i find it hard to beleive that can happen without major changes to Imp society

Think of the Eldar, they got bored and started having fun. This fun meant that Slaanesh was born and the Empire was destroyed. Maybe they wil find the STC's and win every battle, get superpowered then get bored and do the Eldar thing.

The Imperium as a governing body, as an institution of government, is completely, 100%, screwed.

However, I believe humanity will survive. The galaxy is a big place, and there are many places to hide. There are still human worlds out there that have not been discovered by the Imperium. There are large areas of "wilderness" space where it is believed alien societies live and die with no knowledge of humanity. Human societies could easily be out there somewhere. Plus, if the Imperium falls, I am sure many of the sub sectors will be able to stand on their own.

Whereas the Imperium needs to deal with every threat, there are some individual sectors out there that have no threats the deal with at all. The only thing they need to worry about is paying their dues to the Imperium, and the off chance that a chaos/dark elder raiding party, or ork hulk appears. And the chances of that are slim to none.

Space_hoppo wrote:Think of the Eldar, they got bored and started having fun. This fun meant that Slaanesh was born and the Empire was destroyed. Maybe they wil find the STC's and win every battle, get superpowered then get bored and do the Eldar thing.

If a guy with a brain got this STC, the gigantic production following will erase any ressources and after the dust had settled,it is a dead "HUMAN ONLY" galaxy.
The rest of mankind will then move on to neighbur galaxys (like nids ).

A little off topic, but I love how every Primarch who turned to Chaos went to the Emperor and was like, "Dude, Horus is coming for you man, he's totally ed up in the head and he's... he's gonna try and destroy the Imperium." And the Emperor was like, "Whatchu talkin bout?" I mean, he didn't believe any of them and then bam, they're all against him. Someone is a little too stupid to be a Emperor.

Ebullient wrote:A little off topic, but I love how every Primarch who turned to Chaos went to the Emperor and was like, "Dude, Horus is coming for you man, he's totally ed up in the head and he's... he's gonna try and destroy the Imperium." And the Emperor was like, "Whatchu talkin bout?" I mean, he didn't believe any of them and then bam, they're all against him. Someone is a little too stupid to be a Emperor.

OT:
Lorgar turned before HORUS. Fulgrim was possesed,not his own will. Angron got crazed by his brain-implants.
Mortarion followed Horus in every way. Magnus used prohibited ways and didn't act until he had russ at his throat.
Kurze ? who knows? . Perturabo as nerd sensed nothing coming.Alpharius and Omegon were lost in spy games.
Who (not magnus) actually warned the emperor??
BOT:

Huh, sorry, you're right, I thought at least three of them warned him, but it looks like just Magnus. Sorry.

Ebullient wrote:Huh, sorry, you're right, I thought at least three of them warned him, but it looks like just Magnus. Sorry.

Maybe you mixed Captains and Primarchs?
Some loyal Captains really warned their primarchs and when not heard moved to terra to bring their doubts to him.
Many of them came from almost 4 different legions.

Ebullient wrote:Kurze ? who knows? .

If I remember correctly from Lord of the Night, Konrad Curze had a big argument with Rogal Dorn and then some other stuff happened. I gotta check the book again. I do remember that Curze ended up being assassinated.

Magnus only turned because the Emporor wouldn't believe him. So he sent the Space Wolves to bomb his planet into dust, where he struck a deal with Tzeench to save his Libary and all the knowledge it had. So its kinda the Emporers fault on that one.

Space_hoppo wrote:Magnus only turned because the Emporor wouldn't believe him. So he sent the Space Wolves to bomb his planet into dust, where he struck a deal with Tzeench to save his Libary and all the knowledge it had. So its kinda the Emporers fault on that one.

agreed

if the Primarchs (Loyalists) came back would the Imperium be any safer? or would old rivalries tear it apart ie Johnson and Russ

It would have people to look up to so there would eb more hope for them! Besides Lion L'Johnson is alive.

Thats arguable depending on where you look for answers, but I know what you're reffering to so its not a problem. But, don't people look up to the Emp already, so it wouldn't make a huge difference. And the Inquisition would go insane, for all they know, they could be traitors-they don't carry round I.D. afterall. No pockets on power armour.

Have any of you read the blood angels books? Sanguinus reborn! read the books to find what happens, but it shows if a Primarch or Primarch look alike were to come back.

Storm Lord wrote:if the Primarchs (Loyalists) came back would the Imperium be any safer? or would old rivalries tear it apart ie Johnson and Russ

As GW was smart enough to park primarchs as"lost and will return"or"lies in a stasis chamber",
its thinkable for primarchs to come back.
But i doubt, some organizations in power at Terra won't like it.
The emperor is No 1, so a primarch could already dispute who got command if the emp is not
available and I'm sure a lot of SM chapters were happy to obey their ancestor!

My guess: primarchs cannot guarantee safety but their morale boost when leading can turn
pitched battles and a lot of worlds and billion of humans will survive.

Consider though. Primarch's were beaten a few times by greater Daemons or bloodthrusters. They were not invunerabnle. But seeing one would boost anyones morale at seeing a killing marine in armour carrying a sword or spear or warscythe or even a cow's jaw. It would be able to turn a few battles at least.

Primarchs are not supposed to win alone. They can help and advise.
Winning the battles to come is the loyal Guardsman with his mighty lasgun

Remember old game "nuclear war" ? Just exchange the politican with a lasgun weaving IG
when looking on the victory screen

1hadhq wrote:Primarchs are not supposed to win alone. They can help and advise.
Winning the battles to come is the loyal Guardsman with his mighty lasgun

Remember old game "nuclear war" ? Just exchange the politican with a lasgun weaving IG
when looking on the victory screen

Do you mean Astartes when you say guardsmen? I'm sure they commanded them too, but it's the Space Marines who get things done!

SM are the Elite of the imperium. Fights be done with IG.
Guard will win because SM supported them.

Space_hoppo wrote: bloodthrusters

Huh, that sounds like a daemon on a storm boy rokit to me...

It could be, or it's because i can't spell to save my life. But Sanguinius had his legs broken by a Bloodthirster. And he was the best swords man in the imperium, after the Emperor.

Space_hoppo wrote:It could be, or it's because i can't spell to save my life. But Sanguinius had his legs broken by a Bloodthirster. And he was the best "words man" in the imperium, after the Emperor.

You meant swordsman?
Sanguinius lost to Horus and i'm not sure if he could best angron.
But the demons lose against Sanguinius+Blood Angels,maybe the combi primarch+legion just better than standalone?

There we are edited better. He was meant to be the best swordsman, he lost to Horus because he was Daemonically pocessed. i'm not sure about Angron, but he seems more like a axe welding madman rather than a swordsman. Also Sanguinius chipped Horus' armour where the Emperor fired the lance of light that killed him. So he had to be quite good to do that.

I agree, sanguinius was a great swordsman. But to wield a sword doesn't mean you have to win.Other weapons got
their purpose and some traitors pledged to the warp for power.If the primarch's fought each other its hard to say
who will win.

Depends which Chaos God wants to win more.

Ebullient wrote:Depends which Chaos God wants to win more.

Any difference between those four? I believe they all want to win and especially be jealous among themself.

I'd say Tzeentch wouldn't want to win too much, if he did he'd have no rivals to scheme against and take all the fun out of his existance. Besides, none of their followers could do it alone.

Khorne: use a big gun against his manic HtH fighters
Tzeentch: Lots of HtH people, (blood angels) against them
Slaanesh: Turn the lights off, stay quiet and shoot, to prevent any stimulative stuff that slaanesh likes, destroying his purpose in the material universe
Nurgle: Throw medicine at them and watch them get better

There, the Imperiums master plan against the Chaos powers all summed up into a short paragraph even Orks could understand. Now too wait for the Inquisition to get me for letting out their defense secrets.