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fullheadofhair wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

It's all part of the Hobby matey. Sooner or later, the idea is they will all have models, and in the meantime you can always convert. I'm quite enjoying the conversion opportunities!

For you maybe - don't make such blanket generalisations. Converting is a waste of time and many people have zero interest in chopping expensive models into pieces. If you are going to release a codex you should have the dang models ready. What the heck is so difficult to understand about that.

Up until this comment the "elitist" people were simply posting helpful conversion information. Honestly I don't see why they are elitist for defending themselves.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think I've ever felt the need to tell someone to get out of the miniature wargaming hobby because they were unhappy with one aspect of it.
Dakka has a reputation for being a straight talking, rough and ready website. That doesn't justify this level of snobbery.

Ian Sturrock wrote:Ooh, good call, jgemrich. I'm thinking that you could probably use the Venomthrope's body as the basis for a Harpy, too, with a spare Carnifex head & limbs, & scratchbuilt or bits-supplier-bought wings.

IMO, the venomthrope body is too small for the Harp as it is an MC. I am doing a conversion with it for the Parasite of Mortrex. I think it will be easy to place winge in the slots reserved for the pipes and outfit him w/ small leftover scything talons from most any of the kits.

CrazyThang wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

It's all part of the Hobby matey. Sooner or later, the idea is they will all have models, and in the meantime you can always convert. I'm quite enjoying the conversion opportunities!

For you maybe - don't make such blanket generalisations. Converting is a waste of time and many people have zero interest in chopping expensive models into pieces. If you are going to release a codex you should have the dang models ready. What the heck is so difficult to understand about that.

Up until this comment the "elitist" people were simply posting helpful conversion information. Honestly I don't see why they are elitist for defending themselves.

You'll note my elitist comment didn't come out until people told me I was in the wrong hobby for not converting. I think it's perfectly justified to call those people elitist. I have absolutely no problem with people converting their own miniatures, I'll play against all sorts of proxies and converted homebrew stuff. However, I am not good at it, and I don't like paying money to ugly up a miniature with my substandard skills. I have a VERY limited gaming budget, and I want everything I buy to be useful AND look good. This is all about personal choice. For converters, not having models is no big deal. Having a model to work on is often better. For those of us who can't or don't enjoy converting, or don't have the funds for it, it's a pretty big problem. I certainly don't appreciate having my opinions dismissed as they have been in this thread, in a very rude manner. I have never "attacked" converters, so I don't see why they would need to "defend" themselves.
I've got to say I've not been this pissed off by a thread on dakka for a long time.

Maybe these "elitists" are just taking something they can't control in stride? I do feel it is wrong to say things like "play a different army" or "quit" (which if you actually look at that conversation you will see that it started when one of the people who doesn't want to convert said they would quit as a hypothetical and someone took it literally). But as was mentioned a few pages back, would it be better to get a codex with literally nothing new? Or wait another year or 2 so they could release models with it?

It would be better, as I've already explained, if GW gave us a reasonable release schedule for what was coming out, and stuck to it. I wouldn't mind waiting a year, or even two, for models, as long as I knew they were coming eventually.

I agree. But they didn't. Bad bussiness? (I can never spell that word :/ ) Yes. Something we can control? Not really... Yes models would have been a nice thing, at least some models to keep people interested.

And when I see someone making a bad business decision, I like to point it out. It makes me feel better. A lot of people do that here. I've rarely seen someone be told to change hobbies because they were unhappy with FAQ support, for example. That is why this thread has me more annoyed than usual. It's more than usually bitchy.

@Da Boss

But Gw WILL make a mistake and then they'll be a huge fuss.


EDIT Also complaining about FAQs is pretty standard and accepted theres a general consensus GW cant write rules properly. To some like my self complaining about converting is like complaining when I give you gold bar about how its too heavy. Also Dakka has always been elitist IMO.

Five pages in the News & Rumors section with no news or rumors....Interesting very interesting....

Shaman wrote:@Da Boss

But Gw WILL make a mistake and then they'll be a huge fuss.


EDIT Also complaining about FAQs is pretty standard and accepted theres a general consensus GW cant write rules properly. To some like my self complaining about converting is like complaining when I give you gold bar about how its too heavy. Also Dakka has always been elitist IMO.

So. We shouldn't complain about GW being crap because GW is crap, and we should never expect them to improve because they are crap.

You can't look past yourself and see someone else's point of view, and as long as everyone does something, it's okay.

H.B.M.C. wrote:"All I'm saying is that there are plenty of armies with full model ranges -- SM and Tau for example -- which avoid the need to sculpt things."

Which has all of what to do with what exactly, hey KK?

Codex entries should be represented by models. There should be no gaps in the line. It's ok if they don't come out immediately - wave releases are fine - but the models themselves should exist.

...

That's one view, and it is reasonable given how you see the hobby overall, which is buy the models and play the game -- GW as a full service supplier.

My alternative view is that armies lacking significant character models offer opportunities for modelling and conversion, which is an equally valid part of hobby.

Orks is an example where a standard model for vehicles actually looks a bit silly because the army fluff is that everything is hand built.

I'm not making an ethical fuss about this. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to convert stuff and there are plenty of armies with full lines which fulfil that need.

I expect the missing Nids will appear in due course and everyone will be happy.

Da Boss wrote:And when I see someone making a bad business decision, I like to point it out. It makes me feel better. A lot of people do that here. I've rarely seen someone be told to change hobbies because they were unhappy with FAQ support, for example. That is why this thread has me more annoyed than usual. It's more than usually bitchy.

I can understand wanting to vent about why such a large company can't keep up with itself or even at least put out deadlines. We all do it, it's good to get it out with people who have the same issue rather than talk to people who think GW is a video game store. Should GW have released models? Probably. Should they have announced models (with a deadline they could keep)? A huge yes. But the modelers are just dealing with it in their own way, if others don't want to model that is perfectly within their rights as individual human beings. But I will say there is a lot of needless complaining and rudeness from BOTH sides.

I'd say lock this bitchfest.

No one knows when/if new tyranid models get released, this was clear on the first page. The rest was neither news nor rumours.

Greets
Schepp himself

Da Boss wrote:

Shaman wrote:@Da Boss

But Gw WILL make a mistake and then they'll be a huge fuss.


EDIT Also complaining about FAQs is pretty standard and accepted theres a general consensus GW cant write rules properly. To some like my self complaining about converting is like complaining when I give you gold bar about how its too heavy. Also Dakka has always been elitist IMO.

So. We shouldn't complain about GW being crap because GW is crap, and we should never expect them to improve because they are crap.

You can't look past yourself and see someone else's point of view, and as long as everyone does something, it's okay.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

I have no problem with having to convert, as I usually end up doing it anyway.

Kilkrazy wrote:My alternative view is that armies lacking significant character models offer opportunities for modelling and conversion, which is an equally valid part of hobby.

So armies that have models for their units cannot model or convert? Wha. . .?

Not and be in official stores or competitions.

Vengis wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:

Or you could have a little patience and wait a couple months... or have huge patience and wait some years... but yes you could quit also if your not happy.

Sure there are some gaps, but hey what can you do about it if you dont want to convert and just relly on others to produce your goods... People are giving you alternative sugestions because some are mature enough to accomodate to the reality of things... but yes you could just be pissy about it all and call it quits.

Wait a couple months for what?

Where did I say I was going to quit? I said I was shelving my Nid army, yes. That doesn't mean I'm quitting 40k, or that I'm never going to play my Nids again; I'll just wait until they release the models for the new units.

The alternate suggestions I'm objecting to are the ones that I should quit playing Nids (or just wargaming in general according to some people) if I don't want to convert, or that converting is easy and I should like it.

I'm sorry, I'm having trouble understanding this. None of your current Nid models were made obsolete, you just don't have the new toys yet. Seems like you still have a perfectly viable Nid army but since you don't want to convert, you have to wait until the new models are released if you want to use them. I don't see why you should be upset over this, it's your choice. It's not like you have a bunch of models that don't have rules anymore. Seems like anger for the sake of it.

kirsanth wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:My alternative view is that armies lacking significant character models offer opportunities for modelling and conversion, which is an equally valid part of hobby.

So armies that have models for their units cannot model or convert? Wha. . .?

Kilkrazy wrote:Not and be in official stores or competitions.

So if I take a Hive Tyrant and convert it, it is no longer legal? How so?

Vengis wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:

Or you could have a little patience and wait a couple months... or have huge patience and wait some years... but yes you could quit also if your not happy.

Sure there are some gaps, but hey what can you do about it if you dont want to convert and just relly on others to produce your goods... People are giving you alternative sugestions because some are mature enough to accomodate to the reality of things... but yes you could just be pissy about it all and call it quits.

Wait a couple months for what?

Where did I say I was going to quit? I said I was shelving my Nid army, yes. That doesn't mean I'm quitting 40k, or that I'm never going to play my Nids again; I'll just wait until they release the models for the new units.

The alternate suggestions I'm objecting to are the ones that I should quit playing Nids (or just wargaming in general according to some people) if I don't want to convert, or that converting is easy and I should like it.

Actually you discarded some possible solutions sugested by users to your converting problem as you said

" Or that I should be satisfied with buying some ugly ass Armorcast or Trollforged models, or even better, some plastic action figures. I guess I'll just plop a MacFarlane dragon on the table and call it a harrier. "

Sure they may not satisfy what you are looking for but if neither GW does, so what can you do about it? THere are still more options, for example you ask a friend who likes to convert to built your models? I dont know... but your argumentation kind of hints that you have your mind made up about quiting Nids for now, maybe i read it wrong.

The 2 months I'm talking about you can read chapterhouse previous posts on this thread... Dunno if it will satisfy your needs.
I understand your frustation but if you are not flexible enough to consider other possibilities then theres not much anyone can do about it.

Having trouble seeing why some people are kicking up about this issue for this army book release. In the old days (2nd Edition), we never knew when anything was going to be released and most books never saw a complete range of miniatures. Trust me, GW have got a lot better at supporting their Codexes than they used to.

I have no involvement in the industry, but I can guess that it takes a lot of resources to put together a release like this one. I mean come on, Venomthrope, Hive Guard, Pyrovore, new Gargoyles, new Raveners and big arse Trygon/Mawloc. What more can you realistically want?

I agree with those who said they'd rather have a more diverse Codex than one that was fully supported but with fewer options. No, we can't all convert a Tyrannofex, but some people will enjoy having a go. The rest of us still have more minis and therefore more options than we did with the last codex.

I'm all for highlighting GWs faults as and when appropriate, but this is one of their best non Space Marine releases in a long time.

Rant mode off

For those worrying about a lack of skill with Greenstuff and general converting, just keep practicing. I hated Greenstuff until a couple of weeks ago, when someone showed me how to use it. Now I can't get enough of the stuff.

You are also forgetting a third option here fellas....ask someone to do the conversion for you, or look for one on Ebay and the ilk.

As for demanding some kind of date of release, why? Never did it before, and they have said that eventually all Codecies/Army Book options will be made available of the peg. Why the negativity towards this? Especially when you seem to be demanding the very thing they have said they will do?

NAVARRO wrote:

Actually you discarded some possible solutions sugested by users to your converting problem as you said

" Or that I should be satisfied with buying some ugly ass Armorcast or Trollforged models, or even better, some plastic action figures. I guess I'll just plop a MacFarlane dragon on the table and call it a harrier. "

Sure they may not satisfy what you are looking for but if neither GW does, so what can you do about it? THere are still more options, for example you ask a friend who likes to convert to built your models? I dont know... but your argumentation kind of hints that you have your mind made up about quiting Nids for now, maybe i read it wrong.

The 2 months I'm talking about you can read chapterhouse previous posts on this thread... Dunno if it will satisfy your needs.
I understand your frustation but if you are not flexible enough to consider other possibilities then theres not much anyone can do about it.

Now that I've had some time to cool off, I've reread through the thread. I personally have no interest in using substitute models, but there's nothing wrong with the suggestion itself. What really made me mad, and I feel I misdirected a lot of my anger, were the people saying that I should quit the game in general because I don't like converting. Or to play Space Marines instead. There's also, like you said, not much I can do if GW doesn't make the model; that's frustrating as well.

I assumed when you had suggested that I quit, that you were talking about 40k in general.

I was just refering to your sentence to shelf nids, but even if you somehow got fed up about GW and this was the final drop for you, no problems for me either.

To be honest I was not especting so many new bugs for my beloved nids and I feel kind of spoiled... also for a conversion man like myself the non produced stuff is a dream... But I can see people with no interest or inclination for convos to feel that they are missing some of the codex full potential.

I think if you buy some beers to a talented buddy in your area you will manage to give good use to bugs again.

kirsanth wrote:

kirsanth wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:My alternative view is that armies lacking significant character models offer opportunities for modelling and conversion, which is an equally valid part of hobby.

So armies that have models for their units cannot model or convert? Wha. . .?

Kilkrazy wrote:Not and be in official stores or competitions.

So if I take a Hive Tyrant and convert it, it is no longer legal? How so?

I didn't say that.

If you take one of these http://www.hlj.com/product/TAM32403 and convert it into an Ork Warbuggy or Battlewagon, it could not be used in shops or official competitions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In an ideal world all armies would have their codex updated on day one of a new edition, with a good and balanced selection of units, and all models available. Realistically that day will never arrive.

If you already had Nids, and feel your old army is no longer useable because the new models are not available, I think that is an extreme reaction.

Chapterhouse wrote:

Believe me, give it 1-2 months and there will be tons of boen swords, heads, and conversion kits to make your favorite monstrous creature.

Nick

is that a hint maybe?

Vengis wrote:
The alternate suggestions I'm objecting to are the ones that I should quit playing Nids (or just wargaming in general according to some people) if I don't want to convert, or that converting is easy and I should like it.

Before it gets locked I have one more suggestion for a stop gap solution to the missing Nids problem. This requires very little investment of time/money and no advanced modelling skills.

Why not take a picture of a conversion you really like, print it out, stick it on some thin card, cut out all the white space with a craft knife and make a card standee stand in.

Simple, effective and dirt cheap!

MDG:
As I pointed out, I don't have the money to spend on models to practice on.
As to your other point, experience has taught me that GW can happily leave players sitting without models for over a decade while saying "Oh, everyone will get models...eventually." If they mean "we're not making models for that, for a decade at least" they should come out and say it. If they are releasing models, they should come out and say that too. Anything else is dishonest, in my view.

Kilkrazy wrote:

If you already had Nids, and feel your old army is no longer useable because the new models are not available, I think that is an extreme reaction.

Like I was saying, a lot of my anger was misdirected, and looking through the book last night at the shop and seeing the army in action, yes, my old army is still usable.

However, without running some of the new units, I don't think it's a good army, and I'm certainly not going to be winning a bunch of games with it.