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garret, you misunderstand.

Some people just won't/don't want to convert. That's it. It can get annoying for those who have few conversion skills. You can't expect everyone to convert.

Anywhoo, I'm on board with Grunt_For_Christ. I like the fact that I am forced to convert, because it makes my army different than the other guy's.

C'mon man be realistic, just make some small additions to the existing models that represent their different powers.
Just use your imagination, that's what this is all about anyway.

Conversion skills are developed through practice!

Besides some people do like converting...

But not everyone likes converting.

Trust me, I like converting. I try to convert as much as possible.

What I'm referring to is Da Boss's posts. Even if converting isn't that hard or is fun to most of us, if some people don't want to it shouldn't connote a negative response.

Cheers Cryonicleech. I'm rubbish at converting, I just don't have very good dexterity or co-ordination. I understand that people like it, but the existence of a kit for particular models does nothing to prevent those people from converting, in fact it makes it even better for them. But for those of us who can't convert the absence of a kit is a major barrier. It would be nice if GW would put up a stage by stage of how to convert tyrannofex and tervigons and harpies on their site. Anything that involves greenstuff sculpting is well beyond my capabilities, and I don't want to spend fifty quid for a model to practice on. I'm especially intolerant of this after years as an ork player. I got heartily sick of being told that ork players were supposed to love converting and that I wasn't a "proper" ork player because I don't enjoy it. The modelling hobby is different for everyone, just because you enjoy something doesn't mean that others will, or should.

Again, I will say, at least GW are being up front and telling players they have to convert this time, instead of giving false hope like they did with orks back in 3rd edition.

Axyl wrote:As promised:





Personally I'm not sold on the extra spines that I put on the head...may just take them off. I just so happened to discover that the top of the trygon head was nearly the exact same size as the zoanthrope head. Hopefully this will give you other converters out there an idea of how to make your unique zoey's.

Nice, very cool looking. I think that it might look better if the carapace was slid back further up his head to expose the Alien/Xenomorph style head more, like in the codex picture, but that's just me.

I like converting, but I don't want to spend dozens of hours making something with no official model, only for GW to then release something that looks better than mine and costs less than all the bits I used. I can't be the only one - how many gamers still use their old home-built drop pods?

I wish GW would announce what models are planned - e.g. if I know there'll be an official mycetic spore model in 6 months then I can make a better choice as to whether to convert my own (and how much effort to put into it) or wait.

Btw, nice conversion Axyl - I like the head 'spines', they give a distinctive look, so long as they're not too fragile...

Yorick_of_Tau wrote:I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty sure that GW's crazy if it expects us to pay $200 to convert one model.

Welcome to the wonderful world of GW's 'Wave Release System', where not only do we not know when something is coming out, we also don't know if something is coming out. It's 2nd Ed 40K all over again...

Lets not forget how long it took GW to get a plastic drop pod out. The rules were out LOOONG before the kit was, so unfortunately it's likely we will be waiting on some of these models for a while.

The Vulcher can only be made with a Forge World parts kit (or converting), so perhaps we'll see a few new resin heads or body parts from FW that will allow bug characters to be made.

The "mystery" of waves is most likely to prevent people for waiting for appropriate or better models to make purchases. Then when out of the blue BAM new models hit, the theory is that more money is gained by people buying new versions.

I suppose everyone can grumble if they want to. I for example can't stand GW's lack of support for organized play or proper FAQs and Errata. But as far as armies go, if the Tyranids don't have all the models, build another army. Or you can start a nid army of the available models. Or you can wait a while for GW to release a few more nid models and start then. Or you can try converting some of the unavailable stuff. Or you can pay someone to convert some models for you. Or you can proxy models and ignore tournaments.

fullheadofhair wrote:For you maybe - don't make such blanket generalisations. Converting is a waste of time and many people have zero interest in chopping expensive models into pieces.

I must say, the part I emphasized looks pretty damn ironic coming right after a warning against generalization. Converting might be a waste of your time, friend, but it's certainly not mine.

People don't have to play Nids.

Someone said there are heaping options for plastic SMs. If you want an army with heaping plastic options, play SMs. If you like conversions and a unique, 'evolved' look, then Nids are for you.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:For you maybe - don't make such blanket generalisations. Converting is a waste of time and many people have zero interest in chopping expensive models into pieces.

I must say, the part I emphasized looks pretty damn ironic coming right after a warning against generalization. Converting might be a waste of your time, friend, but it's certainly not mine.

Yeah I'm with Aggy on this one. You can't tell someone not to make blanket statements and then go and make a blanket statement in rebuttal. Converting is loads of fun, and if you're the kind've person who likes converting, do so. But let's not get into a 'just convert/I hate converting' discussion when the truth is that none of us would be in this situation if GW were doing 'wave releases' correctly.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:For you maybe - don't make such blanket generalisations. Converting is a waste of time and many people have zero interest in chopping expensive models into pieces.

I must say, the part I emphasized looks pretty damn ironic coming right after a warning against generalization. Converting might be a waste of your time, friend, but it's certainly not mine.

Yeah I'm with Aggy on this one. You can't tell someone not to make blanket statements and then go and make a blanket statement in rebuttal. Converting is loads of fun, and if you're the kind've person who likes converting, do so. But let's not get into a 'just convert/I hate converting' discussion when the truth is that none of us would be in this situation if GW were doing 'wave releases' correctly.

OK. Hands up. It was meant to be waste of my time. Bad stupid time to feth on a post. Ironically enough I am multi-tasking as i write this; doing a stupid essay on Nokia and talking to my wife. the point of my post was meant to be that at the minute I bearly have time to build and prime let alone paint. Converting models that should be released is a waste of MY time. However, those who enjoy converting go knock yourself out but post pics as I enjoy looking at them.

So, sorry for crap keyboard skills.

Heh.

The amount of times I've written "not" rather than "now" and vice versa. Changes the meaning of everything.

The plastic kits these days pretty much mean that 'converting' is often no such thing.
Many of these missing models can be made with a convenient bitsmash.
The real art comes in not wasting half a carnifex here or there because that starts to lead to £50+ models and huge bits boxes. 2 kits should=2 models maybe add some balrog wings etc.
All it takes is a bit of planning and sourcing the easiest ways to do things on sites like dakka!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:For you maybe - don't make such blanket generalisations. Converting is a waste of time and many people have zero interest in chopping expensive models into pieces.

I must say, the part I emphasized looks pretty damn ironic coming right after a warning against generalization. Converting might be a waste of your time, friend, but it's certainly not mine.

Yeah I'm with Aggy on this one. You can't tell someone not to make blanket statements and then go and make a blanket statement in rebuttal. Converting is loads of fun, and if you're the kind've person who likes converting, do so. But let's not get into a 'just convert/I hate converting' discussion when the truth is that none of us would be in this situation if GW were doing 'wave releases' correctly.

What exactly would be "doing it correctly" then?

People seem to have ridiculous expectations, they can't release an entire range of models all at once, they don't have the production capabilities for that.
Not to mention the fact that if models came out right now for every new unit in the codex and to replace old ones you'd have so much nid stuff on the shelves that the shops and customers would be overwhelmed. Then you have the added side effect of having nothing to look forward to until the next codex redo.

I like the way GW is doing things now, putting out codexes full of new options and units is cool, releaseing a wave of new models for each redone army once a year or so is cool.

Yorick_of_Tau wrote:One unhopefull note: This article tells how to convert models like the Swarmlord and Tyrannofex. Yes, it does say you have to buy four Hive Tyrants if you want four boneswords.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=8000023a

I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty sure that GW's crazy if it expects us to pay $200 to convert one model.

Yeah, I saw that article and I raged, lol...they most certainly do seem to expect us to shell out $200 fething dollars for a swarmlord.

Gutteridge wrote:there are bit shops that would sell the bone swords. just need to use ya head mate

So, uh...you got any links then? Because I've looked at every bits website I know of and can't find anyone selling boneswords and lash whips individually.

Oxfordseth wrote:GW used to do their best to avoid putting out lists with units they did not have plans to make miniatures for, but this last year the studio decided to not worry about whether there is plans for miniatures and give people cool rules and a chance for conversions.

Personally I like the this idea.

Indeed, it's not really a bad idea...I personally would prefer that they have a model for every option in the book, but the Tyranid codex is really good and probably wouldn't have been if they had to limit themselves only to units that had models available, so I'm not really complaining about that.

What pisses me off is how they're obviously taking advantage of this and really trying to do one over on everyone. There's no other way to get boneswords outside of the hive tyrant kit, you can't even bits order them anymore, so if you want your warriors to be armed with them or take the swarmlord, you have to buy a crap load of tyrant kits at $50 each. They could have at the least released a direct-only accessory sprue for 'nids or something with plastic right and left-handed sword arms (among other things) and just charged $15 for that. They still get their money and I still get to use those units. But no, it seems to be an all-or-nothing deal with GW: either buy a thousand dollars worth of tyrant kits or do without, and I'm sorry but I guess I'd much rather do without.

Same thing with thunderwolves. They could have easily made a plastic kit for them, but no, they released exactly one model, a really crappy-looking $40-something special character. And it just so happens to be one of the best units in the codex and you really really want to take a whole bunch of them...hmm.



Just to clarify...I like converting just fine. I don't like being expected to shell out INSANE amounts of cash to complete those conversions, because you know for a fact GW doesn't intend you to go to eBay or a bits site (like I said, I really am interested in finding a bits site that sells hive tyrant kits parted out, so if you have a link I seriously want one).

Then you have the added side effect of having nothing to look forward to until the next codex redo.

Seeing as how the only armies that have gotten second waves so far are Space Marines and Orks, isn't that already kind of true?

Gargskull wrote:People seem to have ridiculous expectations, they can't release an entire range of models all at once, they don't have the production capabilities for that.

You forget history. They did it for Dark Eldar. They did it for the Necrons. They did it for the Tau. They used to release everything new for a Codex when the Codex was released, and there were very few gaps in the lines (Orks were a good example of an army with gaps, and, of course, the Eldar did not have their Wave Serpent for quite some time). Now I'm not advocating a return to that, as that sort of business model has its own inherent problems:

1. Too much released at once.
2. Nothing to sustain the army over time.
3. Nothing new for a player for 3-6 years (or 11, if you play DE).
4. Nothing to generate new interest in a product line.

So the old way of releasing everything at once, whilst good if you were interested in that army, wasn't really sustainable IMO. So waves make more sense, but like most things GW does the concept is fantastic, but the execution of that concept leaves much to be desired. Having waves isn't an issue as long as they arrive at regular intervals, and are well signposted. At the very least the Codex should show shots of them to ensure we know that a model is actually coming out. As it stands we now have gaps in the range (Ork Buggies, Flash Gitz, non-starter kit Deff Koptaz, half the tanks in the Guard Codex, Psyker Squads, Penal Legionnaires, half a dozen new Tyranid beasties, various special characters) that all lack models, with no indication that there will ever be a model for said unit. I'm ok with the model not coming out immediately, it would just be nice to know that there is a model coming out.

Agreed, hints or inklings would be really nice. Like if they were going to release a sprue or bonesword/whip bits pack in the next month or two to support the 'nid release, I would feel a lot better (as opposed to feeling almost insulted by the idea of spending $200+ god-damned dollars on just tyrants). But no...

The only book I've seen that had an unreleased model in it, was the Warriors of Chaos book with the plastic DP...and apparently they decided not to release that one after all, lol. Weak.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Gargskull wrote:People seem to have ridiculous expectations, they can't release an entire range of models all at once, they don't have the production capabilities for that.

You forget history. They did it for Dark Eldar. They did it for the Necrons. They did it for the Tau.

I'm ok with the model not coming out immediately, it would just be nice to know that there is a model coming out.

Most of those ranges were metal and quite small, especially compared to SM's, Orks et al, the new codexes have a lot more stuff as GW is trying to be more forward thinking and give themselves plenty of models to do until the next codex. Hence the big laundry list of wants from Guard and now Tryanid players. Trying to release all of the units in the new codexes in one go when they now want most of them to be plastic would be unfeasible so things had to change.

The second point, well that just takes us right back to "the GW doesn't tell us gak anymore" debate and I'm certainly not going to argue that, the company's silence is incredibly irritating. But, if they did tell us what was coming they then have the problem of broken promises and taking too long to bring stuff to market. See the battlewagon, originally teased with the 3rd ed Ork codex and the now infamous plastic daemon prince.

Some companies make lots of promises and deliver little, other's perfer the under promise and over deliver buisness model and GW seems to be heading that way now releasing good codexes with more new stuff then anyone expected and 'trying' to spring waves of new models on us. I say trying because the internet makes it impossible to keep anything a secret these days.

In other words, keeping quiet about what you're up to is a great stratergy and works well for toy companies like Hasbro and videogames companies as they can put on a good show at trade events and generate lots of good will/hype by having a strong showing of new product. It would work well for GW too if all they made was models but they don't and therein lies the real problem they have.

The new codexes are a roadmap of sorts pointing the way to future releases, if it were still 2nd edition style with new releases having rules printed in WD then they can do what they like and no one is any the wiser but that leads to messy games and was of course the reason 3rd ed 40k was streamlined to begin with!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that GW can't really win because of the nature of them selling both rules and models, no matter what release stratergy they choose there's always going to be some huge flaw somewhere. :(

Axyl wrote:Doom of M should be easy for anyone who has bought and built a trygon. After finishing the Trygon the head piece with the spines for the mawloc remains. After a little work with the dremmel and some green stuff and that head piece fits perfectly over the zoey's head. Already built one myself using that piece.

Yep, I noticed this last night after finishing a Trygon- the Mawloc head plate works wonders, and fits really well over the Zoanthrope head. Even for amateur modelers who don't want to use Green Stuff and so on, the Mawloc head will still fit well. I was amazed at how well they go together

@OP: The 'Tyrannofex' is actually a FW Scythed Hierodule. Decent 'counts-as' model for a T-Fex though.

As for the other units without models...most are very easy to make, but I can understand the disappointment for people who don't like converting. As for myself, I like making my own stuff and doing conversion work, so it should be fun. Already got a Tervigon planned, and trying to get ideas for a Tyranid Prime (no-one has a spare Red Terror head, I take it :( )

I also wish they picked different models for the initial release. I love the plastic Trygon kit, and the new plastic Gargoyles.

The Ravener models are nice, but I haven't seen any army list that contains them yet, as they have the same problems gameplay wise as the last codex.

The Pyrovore and Venomtrhope don't look to become very popular either.

But the Hive Guard, which is looking to be a very popular model, comes in a 1 variant metal blister.

If it were up to me, I would have substituted the plastic Ravener kit with a kit of 3 Hive/Tyrant Guard, would have been a lot more popular. The metal blister could then be a bits package with boneswords and such.

Venomthrope? Not popular? I guess people don't believe in swarming up with their Nids. I'd have thought a Venomthrope would be the top of people's lists for new purchases. Granted on it's own it's quite squishy, but mob it up with Warriors and Gaunts, and you have a nice little task force for holding objectives, and generally annoying the enemy.

Pyrovore is an odd one, and needs a little subtlety. I've got one so far, as I'm playing a Cities of Death game this weekend and rather fancy a gribbly Heavy Flamer. Plus the chance of it exploding is just too amusing not to use. Combined with it's Acid Blood, I have no qualms whatsoever of bunging it into a tooled up assault squad, just to take a few with it.

Hive Guard are indeed stonking, but I doubt I'd want anymore than the brood of three currently purchased.

Raveners, well, I've always been a sucker for them, and now they can have other things popping up with them (Trygon Prime for me) I've got 8 now (would have had 9, but some sod pinched one the other week).

ginger_nid_dude wrote:2nd wave I see being doom of malanti, parasite, harpy (p), tyrannofex/tervigon (p), mycetic spore (p).

Probably wont be a second wave. Demons never got one.

RE: Boneswords, I don't know what kit they're from but these guys have a great range of bits at good prices with flat rate shippinga nd they will try and get specific bits if you ask nicely enough;
http://bitsandkits.co.uk/shop/category_48/TYRANIDS.html?shop_param=cid%3D%26

The organic look of Tyranids lends itself to freehand sculpting of new bits so it should not be too difficult to make some of these items which are lacking.

Boneswords don't exist in any kit save for the Hive Tyrant.

I looked over at ApocaBitzNow.com and they have the hive tyrant kit split up for sale...everything but the right arm with bonesword.

What the hell? The one part I'm most interested in, and they don't have it. I doubt they're just out of stock since it's not even listed. Regardless I shot them an e-mail asking about that.

Sidstyler wrote:I looked over at ApocaBitzNow.com and they have the hive tyrant kit split up for sale...everything but the right arm with bonesword.

What the hell? The one part I'm most interested in, and they don't have it. I doubt they're just out of stock since it's not even listed. Regardless I shot them an e-mail asking about that.

That is an awesome name.