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I definately have to vote on paying 26 points a model and not even knowing what the hell they do (Possessed)....

idk 41 points for a 2 wound melee model isnt worth it to me (wraith)

And making it 41 points not 40, when they come in 3's

It makes it a pain for listbuilding math..

insaniak wrote:

9. The broken Imperial Chronometer. It feels like it's been M41Y9999 for a while now, hasn't it? For all the Imperial Support GW gives, you'd think they'd advance their story a bit, huh?

Not going to happen. The 'current' time of the story just sets the stage for the game. They have around 10000 years of backstory to flesh out without needing to upset the cart by changing the current setting.

I don't know about that. Shortly after I started playing was when the Horus Heresy was the present day setting, not ten thousand years later.

Although it was still Warhammer 40,000. I can't really explain that one.

The Horus Heresy has never been the 'present' setting. Even back when the Heresy was introduced into the fluff, it was something that had happened long in the 'past'.

The storyline has advanced slightly in recent years with the 13th Black Crusade and the 3rd Armageddon War... but GW then stopped and took stock, and have said publicly that they don't want to advance past the end of the 'current' year. They're more interested in fleshing out the backstory instead.

Personally, I think people get too caight up in wanting to see what happens 'next' while there's still so much of what happened 'before' to find out about. Particularly since games aren't really intended to be solely based in the 'present' time, as evidenced by the number of Special Characters available in codexes despite being (so far as the 'present time' is concerned) long dead.

I think that the Horus Heresy was current for the first edition of Adeptus Titanicus.

Well, yes, I should probably have said that the Horus Heresy was never 'present' day, other than in offshoot games that were set during the Horus Heresy...

Bookwrack wrote:I know I'm asking a lot here, but how about you stop and think for a second?

If only there were other people who also played this game, who, like you, might have models they have no intention of using but might, perhaps, be willing to exchange them, to, dare I say it, trade their unused models for yours?

Ah, who am I kidding? Even if there were other people out there with unused models besides you (which I doubt) it's not like there's anyway they could communicate with each other, no gathering place, no 'messaging board,' if you will, where such a thing could be set up.

OH HAHAHAHA I get it because we post on a 40K message board and that makes GW's incompetence excusable!

Sorry, I am right with the other guy. It's asinine that I'm going to need to spend probably another 30-40 dollars on Ebay to outfit my Long Fangs in a way that isn't 100 percent slowed.

As for other GW stupidity... I think GW just hates money. Thunderwolf Cav are a highly desirable unit and there are no models. There aren't even wolves in any GW range that don't look stupid supporting a Space Marine. Just make some and sell them for $$$.

The more egregious example though is 13th Co. Wulfen. They made models for them for I believe Eye of Terror. They are long OOP and boxes of 5 (!) metal models are going for close to $100 on Ebay because they look awesome and people really want them for Mark of the Wulfen. Just make some more and reap the profits!

You don't have to spend anything. The box gives you a legal unit. If you want to outfit the unit in a way that makes it fit your perception of what is better, that's up to you.

There are quite a few current box sets that could be better. I would certainly agree that a set should include bits to cover each of the wargear options available to that unit. But covering every possible combination of multiples of that gear? That's getting a little impractically extreme.

insaniak wrote:You don't have to spend anything. The box gives you a legal unit. If you want to outfit the unit in a way that makes it fit your perception of what is better, that's up to you.

There are quite a few current box sets that could be better. I would certainly agree that a set should include bits to cover each of the wargear options available to that unit. But covering every possible combination of multiples of that gear? That's getting a little impractically extreme.

I don't think anyone is advocating a box containing every single permutation. But I think maybe they could either add in more options than "1 each of crappy weapons." Personally I'd love to see a "Heavy Weapons box" that comes with arm sprues or several copies of all marine heavy weapons. GW makes some extra money, I don't get gouged online, everyone wins.

Edit: Actually I just opened my box of Devastators recently and I am relatively sure it comes with 2 of everything BUT the missile launcher, which is slightly more annoying being that the launcher seems to be the far and away favorite.

Y'know I think I would be fine having to pick up a 30$ box of devastators with no weapons and like a 15$ box of bits that includes like 5 Missilie launchers lascannon ETC.

Brother Gyoken wrote:Edit: Actually I just opened my box of Devastators recently and I am relatively sure it comes with 2 of everything BUT the missile launcher, which is slightly more annoying being that the launcher seems to be the far and away favorite.

It's also the heavy weapon that comes with the tac squad, and so it's not going to be in short supply, especially if you buy an extra box or two so that you can use all the weapons that come in the Devastator box - 2x LCs, HBs, and PCs, with 1x ML and MM. The problem seems to be that you're not satisfied the box isn't specifically tailored to meet your needs, that it instead provides a broad assortment of models that will meet the general customer requirements while generating the least additional inventory.

Bookwrack wrote:

Brother Gyoken wrote:Edit: Actually I just opened my box of Devastators recently and I am relatively sure it comes with 2 of everything BUT the missile launcher, which is slightly more annoying being that the launcher seems to be the far and away favorite.

It's also the heavy weapon that comes with the tac squad, and so it's not going to be in short supply, especially if you buy an extra box or two so that you can use all the weapons that come in the Devastator box - 2x LCs, HBs, and PCs, with 1x ML and MM. The problem seems to be that you're not satisfied the box isn't specifically tailored to meet your needs, that it instead provides a broad assortment of models that will meet the general customer requirements while generating the least additional inventory.

The point is that ML is a popular choice but the devestator squad doesent come with any so for 2 dev ml squads i need to find 6 ML and since im using BA with assault squads that can be a problem.

Also the box may be fine by its self its just a lack of weapon sprues

Bookwrack wrote:

Brother Gyoken wrote:Edit: Actually I just opened my box of Devastators recently and I am relatively sure it comes with 2 of everything BUT the missile launcher, which is slightly more annoying being that the launcher seems to be the far and away favorite.

It's also the heavy weapon that comes with the tac squad, and so it's not going to be in short supply, especially if you buy an extra box or two so that you can use all the weapons that come in the Devastator box - 2x LCs, HBs, and PCs, with 1x ML and MM. The problem seems to be that you're not satisfied the box isn't specifically tailored to meet your needs, that it instead provides a broad assortment of models that will meet the general customer requirements while generating the least additional inventory.

The fact I can acquire them from a third party is 100 percent irrelevant to this conversation. GW's stance isn't (or at least shouldn't be) "Go get stuff from your friends." It has nothing to do with being specifically tailored for MY needs so much as the average player. An informal poll around my FLGS has come up with the result "MLs are awesome" so maybe they should just include that second ML and everyone will be happy.

Noisy_Marine wrote:I think it's great that a transport protects you from Shadow in the Warp. It shows that the Nids aren't an unbeatable alien swarm after all. Maybe that other galaxy they ate didn't have any transports?

The other galaxy finally invented them, so the nids are fleeing the horrible plague of of psykic light armored personnel carriers.

How old is the devastator box? The plastic IG heavy weapons box does come with all possible heavy weapons and their newer vehicles have mostly been coming with all options as well.

The way I see it the Dev box could have just as easily come with one of each HW and not even included the Multi-Melta.

I think the current box is good, especially compared to all the previous Dev Boxes.

Brother Gyoken wrote:

Bookwrack wrote:

Brother Gyoken wrote:Edit: Actually I just opened my box of Devastators recently and I am relatively sure it comes with 2 of everything BUT the missile launcher, which is slightly more annoying being that the launcher seems to be the far and away favorite.

It's also the heavy weapon that comes with the tac squad, and so it's not going to be in short supply, especially if you buy an extra box or two so that you can use all the weapons that come in the Devastator box - 2x LCs, HBs, and PCs, with 1x ML and MM. The problem seems to be that you're not satisfied the box isn't specifically tailored to meet your needs, that it instead provides a broad assortment of models that will meet the general customer requirements while generating the least additional inventory.

The fact I can acquire them from a third party is 100 percent irrelevant to this conversation. GW's stance isn't (or at least shouldn't be) "Go get stuff from your friends." It has nothing to do with being specifically tailored for MY needs so much as the average player. An informal poll around my FLGS has come up with the result "MLs are awesome" so maybe they should just include that second ML and everyone will be happy.

The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data.'

Bookwrack wrote:
The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data.'

Good point. Your being deliberately obtuse negates the fact that multiple missile launchers are seen in pretty much every competitive marine list.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:a 16 point Bloodletter that deepstrikes and only has a 5+ save. Seriously, they could at least let them charge on the turn in lieu of running.

Um, you do realise they (and a lot of other things in the Daemon book) are specifically underpriced to offset the fact they cannot charge on the turn they deepstrike? A Bloodletter should cost about 25pts if it could charge, besides you only need about 3 to reliably wipe out a SM squad.

Yet you think they're overpriced? To use an oft quoted meme: "Playing Daemons: You're doing it wrong!"

Wardragoon wrote:idk 41 points for a 2 wound melee model isnt worth it to me (wraith)

Wraiths have 1 wound fella and are simply one of the best tankbusting units Necrons have at their disposal right now due to Gauss' nerfing.

Wraiths still suck. Give them rending and you might be lucky to justify 30 points.

Brother Gyoken wrote:Good point. Your being deliberately obtuse negates the fact that multiple missile launchers are seen in pretty much every competitive marine list.

Nah Bookshelf's right. Your beef is that it doesn't come with heaps of Missile Launchers and that GW's policy shouldn't be 'get it from friends'. That's not GW's policy. GW's policy is "BUY MOAR!!!". They don't want you to buy a Dev Box, they want you to buy five Dev boxes.

Really, the Dev box is fine. It has 8 heavy weapons in there, and doesn't leave any out. Considering the Dev boxes of the past, this is a marked improvement. Who cares if your Long Fang's suffer? That's neither GW's concern or problem.

Fafnir wrote:Wraiths still suck. Give them rending and you might be lucky to justify 30 points.

Wraiths do not "suck" me ode. Whilst they are certainly overpriced in the context of the modern game (as are many other Necron units), "sucking" is something they certainly do not do. With a new Necron codex either keep them their current cost (okay, drop by 1 pt ) and give them Rending and increase their squad size, or keep current stats and drop their points.

Wraiths go through tanks (except Land Raiders) quicker than a Vindaloo and Lager combo on a Man's digestive system.

Grimtuff wrote:

Fafnir wrote:Wraiths still suck. Give them rending and you might be lucky to justify 30 points.

Wraiths do not "suck" me ode. Whilst they are certainly overpriced in the context of the modern game (as are many other Necron units), "sucking" is something they certainly do not do. With a new Necron codex either keep them their current cost (okay, drop by 1 pt ) and give them Rending and increase their squad size, or keep current stats and drop their points.

Yes, wraiths do indeed 'suck.' They cost way too much, and do crap all to justify it. They get torn to ribbons by bolter fire, they get shredded by any real close combat unit, and can't do nearly enough damage to justify their cost.

Wraiths go through tanks (except Land Raiders) quicker than a Vindaloo and Lager combo on a Man's digestive system.

I'm going to have to call bs right around... there. The only tanks they'll be popping reliably, assuming they aren't quickly torn to pieces under a torrent of fire, will be dedicated transports, which generally cost way less than what you're throwing at them.

It makes it worse when they have to compete for space with Destroyers, which just so happen to be one of the very few legitimately good Necron units.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Brother Gyoken wrote:Good point. Your being deliberately obtuse negates the fact that multiple missile launchers are seen in pretty much every competitive marine list.

Nah Bookshelf's right. Your beef is that it doesn't come with heaps of Missile Launchers and that GW's policy shouldn't be 'get it from friends'. That's not GW's policy. GW's policy is "BUY MOAR!!!". They don't want you to buy a Dev Box, they want you to buy five Dev boxes.

Really, the Dev box is fine. It has 8 heavy weapons in there, and doesn't leave any out. Considering the Dev boxes of the past, this is a marked improvement. Who cares if your Long Fang's suffer? That's neither GW's concern or problem.

BM does have a point - for something like Long Fangs there's no good solution and that is deeply irritating, but since in the case of anything else, 2x Devastator kits and 2xTac marine kits gives you 4x of everything except multi-meltas. If that is not enough to feed your deep and abiding craving for hot rockets, again, your complaint is that GW doesn't design its kits to cater specifically to you. If only there were places out there that sold specific parts, so that you didn't have to buy entire boxes to get the exact gear you want for your army... oh well, it's a good dream.

Bookwrack wrote:BM does have a point - for something like Long Fangs there's no good solution and that is deeply irritating, but since in the case of anything else, 2x Devastator kits and 2xTac marine kits gives you 4x of everything except multi-meltas. If that is not enough to feed your deep and abiding craving for hot rockets, again, your complaint is that GW doesn't design its kits to cater specifically to you. If only there were places out there that sold specific parts, so that you didn't have to buy entire boxes to get the exact gear you want for your army... oh well, it's a good dream.

Oh they are out there if you want to pay 7 or so dollars each launcher at a lot of bits stores. Its nearly double what you might pay for any other heavy weapon bit. The price is that high because of demand though.

Can't you buy specific SM heavy weapons troopers on the GW website? Their a little pricey, but it is an option. And really, if your overly irritated by the price tag, this probably isen't a hobby for you to begin with.

I don't understand all this bitching about rocket launchers. Every tactical squad comes with one, and if you've played Marines for any amount of time you should have tons of them.

Cortez667 wrote:Can't you buy specific SM heavy weapons troopers on the GW website? Their a little pricey, but it is an option. And really, if your overly irritated by the price tag, this probably isen't a hobby for you to begin with.

Yes you can but not missile launchers. They aren't on there. MM, Plasma Cannon, Heavy Bolter and Lascannon are however.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother SRM wrote:I don't understand all this bitching about rocket launchers. Every tactical squad comes with one, and if you've played Marines for any amount of time you should have tons of them.

Chances are you are already using it in your tactical squad. I know I do. Typically I am fielding at least 6 missile launchers even at 1000 points.

andrewm9 wrote:
Chances are you are already using it in your tactical squad. I know I do. Typically I am fielding at least 6 missile launchers even at 1000 points.

Solution:
1. Take rocket launcher out of tactical squad.
2. Put rocket launcher in devastator/Long Fang squad.
3. Put plasma cannon, heavy bolter, multimelta, or what have you in space the tactical rocket used to occupy.
4. Damn that's a fine plasma cannon.