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notabot187 wrote:

Amaya wrote:Inquisitorial Stormtroopers. For 1 more point per model you can get Battle Sisters with better armor and stronger weapons.

They can be taken in smaller squads (fits in immos), and have a better special weapons per points spent ratio. They also have access to plasma, while not great these days, 2 plasma guns in a 5 man squad for as cheap as they are will give you opponent pause.

The only thing they have going for them is that they can take plasma and I question the value of plasma in a WH army that isn't pure Inquisition. A squad of Battle Sisters will go through AP2 more often with Flamers and Divine Guidance.

A 5 man Celestian squad in a Rhino /w 2 melta guns is only 15 points more than an IST squad with the same set up and the Celestians always hit on 3+, are Faithful, have better armor, and have higher leadership.

Amaya wrote:

notabot187 wrote:

Amaya wrote:Inquisitorial Stormtroopers. For 1 more point per model you can get Battle Sisters with better armor and stronger weapons.

They can be taken in smaller squads (fits in immos), and have a better special weapons per points spent ratio. They also have access to plasma, while not great these days, 2 plasma guns in a 5 man squad for as cheap as they are will give you opponent pause.

The only thing they have going for them is that they can take plasma and I question the value of plasma in a WH army that isn't pure Inquisition. A squad of Battle Sisters will go through AP2 more often with Flamers and Divine Guidance.

A 5 man Celestian squad in a Rhino /w 2 melta guns is only 15 points more than an IST squad with the same set up and the Celestians always hit on 3+, are Faithful, have better armor, and have higher leadership.

A 5 girl celestian squad is an elite choice. Not a troop choice.

If you are going with a mixed force with IG, you want the cheapest choice possible for the troops, so you can get a big pile of guardsmen. Or if you are playing immo spam, you take 3 units of 5 storm troopers to toss into the HS immolators. Battle sisters as your min WH troops are MUCH more expensive than 70 point storm troopers.

If you are going pure sisters, or nearly pure, and not immo spamming then storm troopers probably aren't good past 500 point games (where they are actually decent).

I'm going to say - the design of the Stormraven is poor. People think it's ugly, and it seems modellers can't help but put the tail section on backwards. I've seen three so far, and the model has only been out for a week or two. The latest was one of GW's own store managers.

It's like a dwarfed pregnant Thunderhawk.

How about this one? (going off of the 3rd ed. codexs)

Eldar and dark eldar weaponry. Eldar get shuirken catapualts that are assualt 2, where as DE get rapid fire weapons.

shoulden't this be reversed, given their story lines, fluff, and playing style. This is something that has irked me for almost 10 years. ( all you AoBR youngsters, stop complaining).

You know not of which you speak.

Chaos Spawn.
Slow and Purposeful in my Fast Attack? Really?

Tyranid Warriors 3packs come with one pair of rending claws, they do however have a completely useless pair of monstrous creature sized scything talons, that do nothing at all.

For bonus points, the rules only allow the entire unit to take rending claws, you can't mix and match.

Necrons being I 2 robots with decent situational awareness (no rule saying otherwise) while Eldar Wraithguard have to stay focused or slip into lala land (and have a rule that covers this) but are I 4..

Ascalam wrote:Necrons being I 2 robots with decent situational awareness (no rule saying otherwise) while Eldar Wraithguard have to stay focused or slip into lala land (and have a rule that covers this) but are I 4..

Then again, Necrons are perceived to be a bit slow. Even in Dawn of War. The Eldar or the opposite with a focus on mobility.

Ascalam wrote:Necrons being I 2 robots with decent situational awareness (no rule saying otherwise) while Eldar Wraithguard have to stay focused or slip into lala land (and have a rule that covers this) but are I 4..

The Lala land part made my day.

Let me make a list....

1. Stormraven. It looks like the mutated inbred cross between a land raider and a valkyrie, with bits tacked on to make it look like a Thunderhawk.
2. Chaos Dreadnoughts. Shooting your own guys half the time with no real benefits to the unit.
3. Drop pods. These seem to be the only things that can't be converted to Chaos. Seriously. What is the secret that makes these things so resistant to the Dark Powers?
4. Ork Anti-Tank power. It doesn't exist. In a metagame where if you don't have 234 Tons of armor on the field, or the stopping power to take care of such armor, you're pretty boned, this is a serious drawback to the Orc Codex.
5. Lack of codex support. Still waiting...
6. Lack of diversification in Chaos Armies. Everyone... and I mean EVERYONE takes Chaos Undivided, fluff-wise. Thousand Sons in a Khorne army ?! MAIM KILL BURN!!!!
7. No 2nd Nid Wave. Nuff said.
8. Ultra marines, Blood Marines, Wolf Marines, Grey Marines, probably soon to come, Black Marines. There's so little to distinct each 'independent' Space Marine chapter, why even bother? Just give the Vanilla marines codex some special characters and rules that act like marks. I mean, the Smurf Marines codes is already way overpriced for no reason anyway, throw the little kids a break, will ya?
9. The broken Imperial Chronometer. It feels like it's been M41Y9999 for a while now, hasn't it? For all the Imperial Support GW gives, you'd think they'd advance their story a bit, huh?
10. Vikings with over 9,000 Rocket Launchers. Did we really need this? Really?
11. In regards to Black Library, make more Xenos material. We get it. Space marines are awesome, and Dan Abnett gives guardsmen the power of 1+saves. What abou the other races? How about a book (series?) explaining major battles of the Imperium, like Armageddon, or the 13th Black Crusade?
12. Descent of Angels. If you've read it, you understand why I bring it up. Not GW's fault, but it's still pretty horrible.
What else? Hmm... Can't really think of anything...
Oh yeah, except 13. The snowstorm from Satan. No, GW, sales did not drop because of the snowstorm. That was a contributing factor, but I can think of a few ways to increase sales.
a. Fantasy Armybook Support.
b. Nids 2nd wave.
c. Dark Eldar 2nd wave.
d. Lower prices on a few things. Lower prices = more bought = More moneh. I can't tell you how many times I've just had a few dollers shy of something. Seriously, I didn't buy an Island of Blood set because I was $6 short.
Finally, f. Advertise more!!! I know that we, as players, are the main source of advertisement, but a new commercial here and there, or maybe a new [good] game once in a while, and you'll get players by the handful!

As a final note, I came to this game through DoW 1. Happy reading, Dakka brothers.

Lord_Of_Morthan wrote:Let me make a list....

1. Stormraven. It looks like the mutated inbred cross between a land raider and a valkyrie, with bits tacked on to make it look like a Thunderhawk.
2. Chaos Dreadnoughts. Shooting your own guys half the time with no real benefits to the unit.
3. Drop pods. These seem to be the only things that can't be converted to Chaos. Seriously. What is the secret that makes these things so resistant to the Dark Powers?
4. Ork Anti-Tank power. It doesn't exist. In a metagame where if you don't have 234 Tons of armor on the field, or the stopping power to take care of such armor, you're pretty boned, this is a serious drawback to the Orc Codex.
5. Lack of codex support. Still waiting...
6. Lack of diversification in Chaos Armies. Everyone... and I mean EVERYONE takes Chaos Undivided, fluff-wise. Thousand Sons in a Khorne army ?! MAIM KILL BURN!!!!
7. No 2nd Nid Wave. Nuff said.
8. Ultra marines, Blood Marines, Wolf Marines, Grey Marines, probably soon to come, Black Marines. There's so little to distinct each 'independent' Space Marine chapter, why even bother? Just give the Vanilla marines codex some special characters and rules that act like marks. I mean, the Smurf Marines codes is already way overpriced for no reason anyway, throw the little kids a break, will ya?
9. The broken Imperial Chronometer. It feels like it's been M41Y9999 for a while now, hasn't it? For all the Imperial Support GW gives, you'd think they'd advance their story a bit, huh?
10. Vikings with over 9,000 Rocket Launchers. Did we really need this? Really?
11. In regards to Black Library, make more Xenos material. We get it. Space marines are awesome, and Dan Abnett gives guardsmen the power of 1+saves. What abou the other races? How about a book (series?) explaining major battles of the Imperium, like Armageddon, or the 13th Black Crusade?
12. Descent of Angels. If you've read it, you understand why I bring it up. Not GW's fault, but it's still pretty horrible.
What else? Hmm... Can't really think of anything...
Oh yeah, except 13. The snowstorm from Satan. No, GW, sales did not drop because of the snowstorm. That was a contributing factor, but I can think of a few ways to increase sales.
a. Fantasy Armybook Support.
b. Nids 2nd wave.
c. Dark Eldar 2nd wave.
d. Lower prices on a few things. Lower prices = more bought = More moneh. I can't tell you how many times I've just had a few dollers shy of something. Seriously, I didn't buy an Island of Blood set because I was $6 short.
Finally, f. Advertise more!!! I know that we, as players, are the main source of advertisement, but a new commercial here and there, or maybe a new [good] game once in a while, and you'll get players by the handful!

As a final note, I came to this game through DoW 1. Happy reading, Dakka brothers.

Oy, that's a huge list

Chaos dreadnoughts don't shoot your own guys 'half of the time'. Only 1/6 th of the time

scubasteve04 wrote:Devistator Squad Box: Don't get me started on this mess of a kit. A sarge with a boltgun and chainsword? Awsome weapon combo, who needs a pistol?? 2 Heavy bolters, 2 Lascannons, 1 Multimelta, 1 Missile Launcher and 1 Plasmacannon (IIRC) and 5 marine bodies gives you the ability to build one godamn useless devistator squad. There should be a Missile Launcher Devistator squad with a sarge and 4 missiles, a Plasmacannon devistator squad with 4 PCs and a sargeant, and so on.

No.

Buy two boxes.

Solved.

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Lord_Of_Morthan wrote:Let me make a list....

1. Stormraven. It looks like the mutated inbred cross between a land raider and a valkyrie, with bits tacked on to make it look like a Thunderhawk.
2. Chaos Dreadnoughts. Shooting your own guys half the time with no real benefits to the unit.
3. Drop pods. These seem to be the only things that can't be converted to Chaos. Seriously. What is the secret that makes these things so resistant to the Dark Powers?
4. Ork Anti-Tank power. It doesn't exist. In a metagame where if you don't have 234 Tons of armor on the field, or the stopping power to take care of such armor, you're pretty boned, this is a serious drawback to the Orc Codex.
5. Lack of codex support. Still waiting...
6. Lack of diversification in Chaos Armies. Everyone... and I mean EVERYONE takes Chaos Undivided, fluff-wise. Thousand Sons in a Khorne army ?! MAIM KILL BURN!!!!
7. No 2nd Nid Wave. Nuff said.
8. Ultra marines, Blood Marines, Wolf Marines, Grey Marines, probably soon to come, Black Marines. There's so little to distinct each 'independent' Space Marine chapter, why even bother? Just give the Vanilla marines codex some special characters and rules that act like marks. I mean, the Smurf Marines codes is already way overpriced for no reason anyway, throw the little kids a break, will ya?
9. The broken Imperial Chronometer. It feels like it's been M41Y9999 for a while now, hasn't it? For all the Imperial Support GW gives, you'd think they'd advance their story a bit, huh?
10. Vikings with over 9,000 Rocket Launchers. Did we really need this? Really?
11. In regards to Black Library, make more Xenos material. We get it. Space marines are awesome, and Dan Abnett gives guardsmen the power of 1+saves. What abou the other races? How about a book (series?) explaining major battles of the Imperium, like Armageddon, or the 13th Black Crusade?
12. Descent of Angels. If you've read it, you understand why I bring it up. Not GW's fault, but it's still pretty horrible.
What else? Hmm... Can't really think of anything...
Oh yeah, except 13. The snowstorm from Satan. No, GW, sales did not drop because of the snowstorm. That was a contributing factor, but I can think of a few ways to increase sales.
a. Fantasy Armybook Support.
b. Nids 2nd wave.
c. Dark Eldar 2nd wave.
d. Lower prices on a few things. Lower prices = more bought = More moneh. I can't tell you how many times I've just had a few dollers shy of something. Seriously, I didn't buy an Island of Blood set because I was $6 short.
Finally, f. Advertise more!!! I know that we, as players, are the main source of advertisement, but a new commercial here and there, or maybe a new [good] game once in a while, and you'll get players by the handful!

As a final note, I came to this game through DoW 1. Happy reading, Dakka brothers.

Oy, that's a huge list

Chaos dreadnoughts don't shoot your own guys 'half of the time'. Only 1/6 th of the time

And another 1/6 of the time, they get Fleet and Rage. Both results can work to your benefit if you keep 'em on the front lines.

My take on your list

1. Stormraven. It looks like the mutated inbred cross between a land raider and a valkyrie, with bits tacked on to make it look like a Thunderhawk.

I really dont get the hate on the storm raven. I personally think it looks good. IMHO I think most of the hate is just running with the crowd.

2. Chaos Dreadnoughts. Shooting your own guys half the time with no real benefits to the unit.

Its not 1/2 but you can also use it to your advantage, AND its really fluffy

3. Drop pods. These seem to be the only things that can't be converted to Chaos. Seriously. What is the secret that makes these things so resistant to the Dark Powers?

This I agree on. Infact I agree on this on many wargear points. "Plasma cannon? WTF Is a plasma cannon? Oh that thing on the crazy dred, dear god WE cant use that!"

4. Ork Anti-Tank power. It doesn't exist. In a metagame where if you don't have 234 Tons of armor on the field, or the stopping power to take care of such armor, you're pretty boned, this is a serious drawback to the Orc Codex.

Well Orks have ways to pop av14 but it isnt as easy as it should be. The fastest way, relies on a BW that is in all honesty, easier to blow up then we wish it was. The other way, is Kans/Dreds and hope we can get there and not have to roll 6s.

5. Lack of codex support. Still waiting...

I agree

6. Lack of diversification in Chaos Armies. Everyone... and I mean EVERYONE takes Chaos Undivided, fluff-wise. Thousand Sons in a Khorne army ?! MAIM KILL BURN!!!!

I agree. This completely turned me off of Chaos. Ill never go back. Heres to taking an Army that is probably the most diverse fluff wise out there, and gaking on it

7. No 2nd Nid Wave. Nuff said.

Uhm, this doesnt bother me so much. Orks are STILL waiting on things that are in the codex. Its kindda the nature of GW right. I mean, do you REALLY think all the armies will get an update?

8. Ultra marines, Blood Marines, Wolf Marines, Grey Marines, probably soon to come, Black Marines. There's so little to distinct each 'independent' Space Marine chapter, why even bother? Just give the Vanilla marines codex some special characters and rules that act like marks. I mean, the Smurf Marines codes is already way overpriced for no reason anyway, throw the little kids a break, will ya?

I completely agree on this and have said this many times. SC should have special rules that change how the armies play and then you go from there. Not make 15 different codices for some damn reason. You know the Xenos players would LOVE some attention

9. The broken Imperial Chronometer. It feels like it's been M41Y9999 for a while now, hasn't it? For all the Imperial Support GW gives, you'd think they'd advance their story a bit, huh?

I just want the Emperor to finally die. I want to see what happens story wise. Seriously, itll be good

10. Vikings with over 9,000 Rocket Launchers. Did we really need this? Really?

I havnt been a huge fan of the wolves for a long time. But uhm... ya. Orks can spam the hell out of rokkits, but our BS makes it not so over powered. SW on the other hand

11. In regards to Black Library, make more Xenos material. We get it. Space marines are awesome, and Dan Abnett gives guardsmen the power of 1+saves. What abou the other races? How about a book (series?) explaining major battles of the Imperium, like Armageddon, or the 13th Black Crusade?

I agree completely on this. I once made a thread asking for books that featured Orks. I was told "well they made books with Orks dying in them!" Gee, because thats what I want to read. How 1 guardsmen single handedly stopped the biggest WAAAAGH1 known to man

12. Descent of Angels. If you've read it, you understand why I bring it up. Not GW's fault, but it's still pretty horrible.
What else? Hmm... Can't really think of anything...

Again, no idea

13. The snowstorm from Satan. No, GW, sales did not drop because of the snowstorm. That was a contributing factor, but I can think of a few ways to increase sales.
a. Fantasy Armybook Support.
b. Nids 2nd wave.
c. Dark Eldar 2nd wave.
d. Lower prices on a few things. Lower prices = more bought = More moneh. I can't tell you how many times I've just had a few dollers shy of something. Seriously, I didn't buy an Island of Blood set because I was $6 short.
Finally, f. Advertise more!!! I know that we, as players, are the main source of advertisement, but a new commercial here and there, or maybe a new [good] game once in a while, and you'll get players by the handful!

Hey its the new GW. They jack prices. If you came into 40k from DOW, then you should be used to it. I started years ago, Infact I learned when I was like 13ish, thesets are probably 3 or more times the cost now.

Henners91 wrote:

scubasteve04 wrote:Devistator Squad Box: Don't get me started on this mess of a kit. A sarge with a boltgun and chainsword? Awsome weapon combo, who needs a pistol?? 2 Heavy bolters, 2 Lascannons, 1 Multimelta, 1 Missile Launcher and 1 Plasmacannon (IIRC) and 5 marine bodies gives you the ability to build one godamn useless devistator squad. There should be a Missile Launcher Devistator squad with a sarge and 4 missiles, a Plasmacannon devistator squad with 4 PCs and a sargeant, and so on.

No.

Buy two boxes.

Solved.

Nope i think you would still need 2 x multi-melta and 2 x missile launchers to make a full squad of either

Waiting more than 13 years to update aspects of a miniatures line like Sisters of Battle. The basic trooper has remained unchanged for 13+ years. Between the age and price of the line its no wonder Sisters aren't going to sell well in this day and age.

Stormraven model.

wtf?

Imagine a dread where the gap is. It'll look fine. I think all the hate for it is because the 'popular faces' of dakka hate it.

Lord_Of_Morthan wrote:3. Drop pods. These seem to be the only things that can't be converted to Chaos. Seriously. What is the secret that makes these things so resistant to the Dark Powers?

Razorbacks. Attack Bikes. Landspeeders. Land Raider Variants.

The point of having different codexes is that they are differenct.

9. The broken Imperial Chronometer. It feels like it's been M41Y9999 for a while now, hasn't it? For all the Imperial Support GW gives, you'd think they'd advance their story a bit, huh?

Not going to happen. The 'current' time of the story just sets the stage for the game. They have around 10000 years of backstory to flesh out without needing to upset the cart by changing the current setting.

d. Lower prices on a few things. Lower prices = more bought = More moneh.

That equation isn't necessarily true. It also doesn't automatically equate to more profit, which is ultimately what it's all about.

Scout biker shotguns, why?

Because of relic models. Older rules edition models had them. Rule enables players with older models to field them.

Because shotguns and bikers are kewl (see terminator 2).

battle Brother Lucifer wrote:Imagine a dread where the gap is. It'll look fine. I think all the hate for it is because the 'popular faces' of dakka hate it.

Agreed. I happen to like it, compared to other things GW (and it's affiliates) have released. The caestus doesn't fit any fluff AND is pretty ugly (In a way, the stormraven is too)

Samus_aran115 wrote:Raptor champion being able to take claws. The only reason that's even an option is because GW made that useless raptor Champion model to go with the five man set.

Well all aspiring champions used to be able to take lightning claws, plus tons of other stuff.

On a related note, the raptor box is pretty bad. 2 raptors, 2 with melta, and one champion. Now if I want to buy more raptors to fill out the squad I need to buy blisters of "normal" raptors. They should've made plastic raptors instead of plastic spawn I think - raptors being slightly more useful.

How about the fact that the only Tzeentch cult marines are Thousand Sons? Are there no other cult marines out there? Maybe some that aren't tied to a specific legion?

The Noise Marine box only has 2 sonic weapons.

Plague marines still come in a box of 7 and cost like a box of 10.

Um ... Obliterators got nerfed yet got a points increase.

Lack of psychic defense for a lot of armies in a time when certain new books have *awesome* psychic powers.

Samus_aran115 wrote:

battle Brother Lucifer wrote:Imagine a dread where the gap is. It'll look fine. I think all the hate for it is because the 'popular faces' of dakka hate it.

Agreed. I happen to like it, compared to other things GW (and it's affiliates) have released. The caestus doesn't fit any fluff AND is pretty ugly (In a way, the stormraven is too)

Except the Raven is a good kind of ugly. It fits with all SM vehicles. My only dislike for it, is that the turret wouldn't be able to aim down. It still looks cool, but I don't know if it would even work

battle Brother Lucifer wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:

battle Brother Lucifer wrote:Imagine a dread where the gap is. It'll look fine. I think all the hate for it is because the 'popular faces' of dakka hate it.

Agreed. I happen to like it, compared to other things GW (and it's affiliates) have released. The caestus doesn't fit any fluff AND is pretty ugly (In a way, the stormraven is too)

Except the Raven is a good kind of ugly. It fits with all SM vehicles. My only dislike for it, is that the turret wouldn't be able to aim down. It still looks cool, but I don't know if it would even work

It's still a toaster with wings. Can't really get around that. Removing and changing some items will make it better.

AS for stupidity, I say it's letting Matt Ward write dexs Or it's the fact they still use pewter when plastic quality is on the rise. Seriously GW step it up.

Juvieus Kaine wrote:

AS for stupidity, I say it's letting Matt Ward write dexs Or it's the fact they still use pewter when plastic quality is on the rise. Seriously GW step it up.

but it's the economics behing the metal models, they're not going to sell 10 Marneus Calgars to each player, so spending £10,000 on a mould for a character is just to expensive. but you need 5/10/20 tactical squads/terma-gaunt squads etc. so they'll make the money back

FM Ninja 048 wrote:

Juvieus Kaine wrote:

AS for stupidity, I say it's letting Matt Ward write dexs Or it's the fact they still use pewter when plastic quality is on the rise. Seriously GW step it up.

but it's the economics behing the metal models, they're not going to sell 10 Marneus Calgars to each player, so spending £10,000 on a mould for a character is just to expensive. but you need 5/10/20 tactical squads/terma-gaunt squads etc. so they'll make the money back

Or they go broke when everyone gives up on paying £30 for a box of 10 guys when the prices hit that mark

WTB A 'Nid 2nd wave of all of the models they "forgot" to make (and have had over a year now to give us...). Even if they just get us a harpy and a tyrannofex, there are plenty of other options for the other units out there.

Also with the 'Nids... how a psyker can sit comfortably in his vehicle using his powers... however is unaffected by Shadow of the warp ...

a 16 point Bloodletter that deepstrikes and only has a 5+ save. Seriously, they could at least let them charge on the turn in lieu of running.

I think it's great that a transport protects you from Shadow in the Warp. It shows that the Nids aren't an unbeatable alien swarm after all. Maybe that other galaxy they ate didn't have any transports?