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There is a huge shortage of ML compared to the other heavy weapons circulated by the Dev box. For example, thewarstore.com has the ML listed for 14.99 USD while all the other heavy weapons are 4.99 (yes thats 75 dollars to kit one long fangs unit). There is not a single Devastator (or tactical) Missile Launcher for sale in all of canada on ebay, yet I can find the other heavy weapons in my own city.

GW could keep the current devastator box in circulation, and release a "Devastator Missile booster pack" with 4-5 Missile launchers and a few extra bits for space wolves ect.

With the massive amount of people running Missiles these days, you know they will sell.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Nah Bookshelf's right. Your beef is that it doesn't come with heaps of Missile Launchers and that GW's policy shouldn't be 'get it from friends'. That's not GW's policy. GW's policy is "BUY MOAR!!!". They don't want you to buy a Dev Box, they want you to buy five Dev boxes.

GW stupidity, in my book, is exactly as i quoted H.B.M.C. for.
- They seem to develop codices, so that people needs to buy more stuff. Lower price tags on vehicles equals more vehicles sold. It doesn't cost GW a fraction of a dollar/pound to add another sprue, so that a Dev-squad can get all ML's or MM's for their Vulkan list.

Not really sure i'd call it stupidity, to be frank. But it seems it's all with the $'es in mind whenever they make something new.
- Not to mention that alot of armies gets "left behind"... (Necrons anyone?)

Is it not posible to use IG MLs...with abit of work I'm sure they would fit.

scubasteve04 wrote:There is a huge shortage of ML compared to the other heavy weapons circulated by the Dev box. For example, thewarstore.com has the ML listed for 14.99 USD while all the other heavy weapons are 4.99 (yes thats 75 dollars to kit one long fangs unit). There is not a single Devastator (or tactical) Missile Launcher for sale in all of canada on ebay, yet I can find the other heavy weapons in my own city.

No, remember.... Anecdotes do not equal data!

Ribon Fox wrote:Is it not posible to use IG MLs...with abit of work I'm sure they would fit.

I'm sure you could do all kinds of crazy conversion works to save your bucks. But i can hardly concur with the thinking behind NOT giving people free options. Especially not taking into consideration, how all of their products prices keeps rising to astonishing heights...

Brother Gyoken wrote:

scubasteve04 wrote:There is a huge shortage of ML compared to the other heavy weapons circulated by the Dev box. For example, thewarstore.com has the ML listed for 14.99 USD while all the other heavy weapons are 4.99 (yes thats 75 dollars to kit one long fangs unit). There is not a single Devastator (or tactical) Missile Launcher for sale in all of canada on ebay, yet I can find the other heavy weapons in my own city.

No, remember.... Anecdotes do not equal data!

That's data, not an anecdote, genius.

People are complaining about the scarcity of missile launchers and saying GW should release more of them per pack. 2 reasons this does not compute:
first of all, this demand is a trend, the devestator box was released before it came along, and packaging is not really meant to be changed on short notice like this. They don't/can't change every model kit and the weapons it includes, every time the rules make one or another choice more fashionable.
Second, none of you guys are taking multi-melta+plasma cannon devestator squads due to this scandalous lack of missile launchers, are you now? No, you're seeking out other GW bits to build your armies. So why should GW do anything differently? It ain't hurting their sales one bit.

They should ONLY have missile launchers in the box, that way when the 6e rules come out (making them worthless-if even an option) folks can complain that they have so many. . .instead of complaining they have so many options that they do not want to utilize.

Brother Gyoken wrote:

scubasteve04 wrote:There is a huge shortage of ML compared to the other heavy weapons circulated by the Dev box. For example, thewarstore.com has the ML listed for 14.99 USD while all the other heavy weapons are 4.99 (yes thats 75 dollars to kit one long fangs unit). There is not a single Devastator (or tactical) Missile Launcher for sale in all of canada on ebay, yet I can find the other heavy weapons in my own city.

No, remember.... Anecdotes do not equal data!

Stating that a missile launcher is unavailable across an entire country of 35 million via EBAY while all other heavy weapons are, is not an anecdote.

F A C E P A L M back at ya


Also, considering good chunk competitive players are run SW with 15+ ML Long fangs, and the 40$ devastator kit comes with a SINGLE MISSILE LAUNCHER, and they cannot be obtained in singles from Games workshop (Most of SM players USE their Missiles when buying a tactical squad box), then logic dicates that there is indeed a shortage.

I am not a business man, but I am pretty sure if GW invests in a single ML packed sprue to sell on their website and/or in store, they will sell like crazy until at least the release of 6th edition and they can make their money back.

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:People are complaining about the scarcity of missile launchers and saying GW should release more of them per pack. 2 reasons this does not compute:
first of all, this demand is a trend, the devestator box was released before it came along, and packaging is not really meant to be changed on short notice like this. They don't/can't change every model kit and the weapons it includes, every time the rules make one or another choice more fashionable.
Second, none of you guys are taking multi-melta+plasma cannon devestator squads due to this scandalous lack of missile launchers, are you now? No, you're seeking out other GW bits to build your armies. So why should GW do anything differently? It ain't hurting their sales one bit.

Excellent point. And you're right. As long as it doesn't hurt their sales, then why lift a finger?
- Although, as i write earlier on, i hardly believe GW will go bankrupt from adding another sprue with more ML's/MM's to the Dev-box. But then again, with your excellent point; Why should they? It doesn't hurt their sales!

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:People are complaining about the scarcity of missile launchers and saying GW should release more of them per pack. 2 reasons this does not compute:
first of all, this demand is a trend, the devestator box was released before it came along, and packaging is not really meant to be changed on short notice like this. They don't/can't change every model kit and the weapons it includes, every time the rules make one or another choice more fashionable.
Second, none of you guys are taking multi-melta+plasma cannon devestator squads due to this scandalous lack of missile launchers, are you now? No, you're seeking out other GW bits to build your armies. So why should GW do anything differently? It ain't hurting their sales one bit.

I highlight this bit as a bit of stupidity. Why would they give you weapons to use and yet make them so unappealing to the majority that noboy bothers with them? I mean if you wanted a balanced codex you make it so every unit is just as good as the next, there is no "must-have-uber-unit-of-death!!!!" or "this-unit-is-crap" rubbish and every single weapon and upgrade is useful in it's own right and combined with others.

I think we can point at DE as a step in that direction but Space Marines could easily improve on it, along with eveyr other dex. And yes I point a very big finger at the space puppies for the constant ML Longfang spam and TWC I keep hearing about.

I think the notion of selling sprues of JUST weapon options is what people are getting at. You only need 5 devastators and 4 missile launchers, buy one box of devastators and a sprue of heavy weapons, not 2 boxes of devastators. Likewise with combi weapons. I don't need 7 space marine captains but I could sure use 7 combi weapons.

yeenoghu wrote:I think the notion of selling sprues of JUST weapon options is what people are getting at. You only need 5 devastators and 4 missile launchers, buy one box of devastators and a sprue of heavy weapons, not 2 boxes of devastators. Likewise with combi weapons. I don't need 7 space marine captains but I could sure use 7 combi weapons.

Yatzi!

Now, try building a Vulkan list with MMs without converting anything.
1 Dev box = 1 MM

Billinator wrote:

yeenoghu wrote:I think the notion of selling sprues of JUST weapon options is what people are getting at. You only need 5 devastators and 4 missile launchers, buy one box of devastators and a sprue of heavy weapons, not 2 boxes of devastators. Likewise with combi weapons. I don't need 7 space marine captains but I could sure use 7 combi weapons.

Yatzi!

Now, try building a Vulkan list with MMs without converting anything.
1 Dev box = 1 MM

MMs are at least available for individual sale thru games workshop, and are easier to aquire through 3rd party sources (ebay ect) due to the low demand of MMs.

Missiles on the other hand are just so damn hard to find.

Juvieus Kaine wrote:

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:People are complaining about the scarcity of missile launchers and saying GW should release more of them per pack. 2 reasons this does not compute:
first of all, this demand is a trend, the devestator box was released before it came along, and packaging is not really meant to be changed on short notice like this. They don't/can't change every model kit and the weapons it includes, every time the rules make one or another choice more fashionable.
Second, none of you guys are taking multi-melta+plasma cannon devestator squads due to this scandalous lack of missile launchers, are you now? No, you're seeking out other GW bits to build your armies. So why should GW do anything differently? It ain't hurting their sales one bit.

I highlight this bit as a bit of stupidity. Why would they give you weapons to use and yet make them so unappealing to the majority that noboy bothers with them? I mean if you wanted a balanced codex you make it so every unit is just as good as the next, there is no "must-have-uber-unit-of-death!!!!" or "this-unit-is-crap" rubbish and every single weapon and upgrade is useful in it's own right and combined with others.

I think we can point at DE as a step in that direction but Space Marines could easily improve on it, along with eveyr other dex. And yes I point a very big finger at the space puppies for the constant ML Longfang spam and TWC I keep hearing about.

I will assume you are calling GW stupid, not myself, and will therefore refrain from horsewhipping you through the street, you impudent knave!

I actually see the weapon costs as completely balance. The love for missile launchers is a trend stemming from the armies you see amongst competitively minded people - namely that so many armies can be most competitively played by fielding large numbers of AV10-12 vehicles. If you look at things as a (admittedly weirdly naive) GW rules designer, the weapons are fairly costed according to their strength/ap and range.

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:

Juvieus Kaine wrote:

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:People are complaining about the scarcity of missile launchers and saying GW should release more of them per pack. 2 reasons this does not compute:
first of all, this demand is a trend, the devestator box was released before it came along, and packaging is not really meant to be changed on short notice like this. They don't/can't change every model kit and the weapons it includes, every time the rules make one or another choice more fashionable.
Second, none of you guys are taking multi-melta+plasma cannon devestator squads due to this scandalous lack of missile launchers, are you now? No, you're seeking out other GW bits to build your armies. So why should GW do anything differently? It ain't hurting their sales one bit.

I highlight this bit as a bit of stupidity. Why would they give you weapons to use and yet make them so unappealing to the majority that noboy bothers with them? I mean if you wanted a balanced codex you make it so every unit is just as good as the next, there is no "must-have-uber-unit-of-death!!!!" or "this-unit-is-crap" rubbish and every single weapon and upgrade is useful in it's own right and combined with others.

I think we can point at DE as a step in that direction but Space Marines could easily improve on it, along with eveyr other dex. And yes I point a very big finger at the space puppies for the constant ML Longfang spam and TWC I keep hearing about.

I will assume you are calling GW stupid, not myself, and will therefore refrain from horsewhipping you through the street, you impudent knave!

I actually see the weapon costs as completely balance. The love for missile launchers is a trend stemming from the armies you see amongst competitively minded people - namely that so many armies can be most competitively played by fielding large numbers of AV10-12 vehicles. If you look at things as a (admittedly weirdly naive) GW rules designer, the weapons are fairly costed according to their strength/ap and range.

I believe the love for Missile Launchers is due to it being the most versitile of the Heavy weapon choices. The missile has the widest range of potential targets from infantry hordes, MEQ, MCs, Light-Medium Vehicles, HQs. The only thing it suffers against is TEQ ad AV14 (although they still can hurt them to an extent). The only weapon I find more versitile is the Assault Cannon, which is unavailable for DEVs.

Heavy bolter suffers from decent armor saves and FnP, and anything higher than AV 10.

Plasma cannon destroys heavy infantry and FnP, but suffers against medium vehicles, cannot hurt heavy vehicles, and is expensive compared to the ML when shooting at light infantry.

Lascannon can tackle any vehicle, MC, or HQ, but suffers from volume of shots and cost, and is night useless against hordes.

MM suffers from range and volume of fire. Very good against Light-Medium Vehicles at 12"-24", Heavy vehicles inside 12", MCs and HQ inside 24", thats about it.

@I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly
Weapons may be. But certainly not the model-prices.

Also, considering good chunk competitive players are run SW with 15+ ML Long fangs, and the 40$ devastator kit comes with a SINGLE MISSILE LAUNCHER, and they cannot be obtained in singles from Games workshop (Most of SM players USE their Missiles when buying a tactical squad box), then logic dicates that there is indeed a shortage.

Given that most competitive players avoid tournaments where's there's comp/painting/fluff/soft scores eans that their ML squad probably consists of a marine with a piece of a smarties tube glued to his arm...

Now, try building a Vulkan list with MMs without converting anything.
1 Dev box = 1 MM

No no! you just buy the old metal on at £8 a pop (about 50% of hte dev squad cost!) so you trade 2 lascannons, 1 ml, 2 plasma cannons and 2 heavy bolters for that extra multi-melta!

Oh wait... can't do that anymore.... *sniff* I'm only 24 and I'm old ...

It's insane as I recall when for @£12 I could get the 'salamander tactical squad' wherein there was a metal MM and plasma gun as well as 10 tactical marines (no sgt sprue but it gave an assault plasma pistol sprue) ... so you swapped the flamer, sgt and missile launcher for a plasma pistol, MM and plasma gun. Not a bad deal if you wanted MMs!

Honestly, I think the dumbest thing that GW has done was making a Legion called the Word Bearers...seriously, they show up with dictionaries and maybe talk me to death?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Chaos/DREADNOUGHTS/WORD-BEARERS-DREADNOUGHT.html


So. Incredibly. Stupid.

I like the IG HW conversion idea. Granted you end up with extra weapons that MEQs can't use (autocannons, mortars) but a DEV squad, plus a 3 team IG HW box set might be doable.

I kind of like GW not making a model for EVERYTHING in a codex...makes you have to convert it if you want that unit/weapon combination. Have they ever put out an IG veteran squad model range? No, becuase it forces you to get creative, and be unique.

And about the ML debate: it seems that people are complaining about not being able to EASILY field a long fangs pack with 4 ML. Again, if its SO fething important, figure out a way to do it. (its a tube-based weapon; how hard could it be? I mean, really...) GW is a business, and they are running it like business men. If they ran it like a bunch of gamers, it wouldn't have lasted much past the release of 3rd ed WH40k.

(and becuase it can't be overstated, the storm raven looks SOOO frakking weak...should have just put the thunderhawk in there instead. Would have been so much cooler)

*Ahem* That is all. Thank you.

Giving the Lootas what the Flash Gitz should have had.

Giving the Flash Gitz such a terrible stat line.

Imagine if GW sold a single frame that had:

4 Missile Launchers
4 Lascannons
4 Heavy Bolters
4 Multi-Meltas
4 Plasma Cannons
4 Plasma Guns
4 Meltaguns
4 Flamers
4 Combi-Plasmas
4 Combi-Meltas
4 Combi-Flamers
2 pairs of Power Armour Lightning Claws.
2 Power Armour Thunder Hammers.
2 Power Armour Storm Shields
2 Power Fists
2 Power Weapons
2 Plasma Pistols
10 Beakie Heads

Do you think this sprue would sit in their warehouse gathering dust?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Imagine if GW sold a single frame that had:

4 Missile Launchers
4 Lascannons
4 Heavy Bolters
4 Multi-Meltas
4 Plasma Cannons
4 Plasma Guns
4 Meltaguns
4 Flamers
4 Combi-Plasmas
4 Combi-Meltas
4 Combi-Flamers
2 pairs of Power Armour Lightning Claws.
2 Power Armour Thunder Hammers.
2 Power Armour Storm Shields
2 Power Fists
2 Power Weapons
2 Plasma Pistols
10 Beakie Heads

Do you think this sprue would sit in their warehouse gathering dust?

I will dream of that sprue. They could charge me 50 bucks for it and id think it was a deal.

It would be actually, especially what the above items would cost separately from a 3rd party bitz site.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Imagine if GW sold a single frame that had:

4 Missile Launchers
4 Lascannons
4 Heavy Bolters
4 Multi-Meltas
4 Plasma Cannons
4 Plasma Guns
4 Meltaguns
4 Flamers
4 Combi-Plasmas
4 Combi-Meltas
4 Combi-Flamers
2 pairs of Power Armour Lightning Claws.
2 Power Armour Thunder Hammers.
2 Power Armour Storm Shields
2 Power Fists
2 Power Weapons
2 Plasma Pistols
10 Beakie Heads

Do you think this sprue would sit in their warehouse gathering dust?

It would be a MEQ army's dream. But GW won't do it since it makes too much sense to make something that players would actually use without splitting it apart.

Doctor Optimal wrote:Giving the Lootas what the Flash Gitz should have had.

Giving the Flash Gitz such a terrible stat line.

Yea Ive said that for a long time now. Ive always compared how Flashgits feel wrong as a HS choice, and lootas feel wrong as an elite. I swear FlashGits were just one of those "oh lets just toss em in there, we need another unit" thats the feeling anyways

H.B.M.C. wrote:Imagine if GW sold a single frame that had:

4 Missile Launchers
4 Lascannons
4 Heavy Bolters
4 Multi-Meltas
4 Plasma Cannons
4 Plasma Guns
4 Meltaguns
4 Flamers
4 Combi-Plasmas
4 Combi-Meltas
4 Combi-Flamers
2 pairs of Power Armour Lightning Claws.
2 Power Armour Thunder Hammers.
2 Power Armour Storm Shields
2 Power Fists
2 Power Weapons
2 Plasma Pistols
10 Beakie Heads

Do you think this sprue would sit in their warehouse gathering dust?

Seriously, if it were for $50 they wouldnt be able to keep them in stock. Id probably buy one and I dont even play a MEQ army

Brother Gyoken wrote:
Good point. Your being deliberately obtuse negates the fact that multiple missile launchers are seen in pretty much every competitive marine list.

You do realize that at the time that the Dev box was initially released Missile Launchers were not as popular as they are today.

My point is; somebody is always going to be dissatisfied because the exact combination THEY want isn't just thrown at them and will whine about it.
Today it is you. Tomorrow it might be somebody else.

Steelmage99 wrote:

Brother Gyoken wrote:
Good point. Your being deliberately obtuse negates the fact that multiple missile launchers are seen in pretty much every competitive marine list.

You do realize that at the time that the Dev box was initially released Missile Launchers were not as popular as they are today.

My point is; somebody is always going to be dissatisfied because the exact combination THEY want isn't just thrown at them and will whine about it.
Today it is you. Tomorrow it might be somebody else.

Yes GW should just provide one option in every box say plasma and everyone else can just deal with it AMIRITE? [/sarcasm]

The point is why isnt there heavy weapon blister packs when they have meltaguns and plasma guns with 5 in each blister?, i dont think many people would mind even if there were only 2 metal guns in a blister even though 4 would be better, and it would be a new pack GW can sell instead of people getting their bits from freinds or ebay.

I mean where would you be getting melta and plasma guns without those blisters? certainly not from GW directly

scubasteve04 wrote:There is a huge shortage of ML compared to the other heavy weapons circulated by the Dev box. For example, thewarstore.com has the ML listed for 14.99 USD while all the other heavy weapons are 4.99 (yes thats 75 dollars to kit one long fangs unit). There is not a single Devastator (or tactical) Missile Launcher for sale in all of canada on ebay, yet I can find the other heavy weapons in my own city.

GW could keep the current devastator box in circulation, and release a "Devastator Missile booster pack" with 4-5 Missile launchers and a few extra bits for space wolves ect.

With the massive amount of people running Missiles these days, you know they will sell.

There's something called "supply and demand" that I don't think you understand. More people want those rocket launchers, so they sell them for more money. More people want the Chaos Lord lightning claws, so they sell those for more money. Not as many people want those other heavy weapons and they are therefore cheaper. Plasma cannons are more rare than rocket launchers, yet Warstore doesn't sell them for $15 or whatever.

This has nothing to do with GW stupidity, this is just people whining that there aren't 4 rocket launchers in every box. Quit your bitching, buy some Imperial Guard rocket launchers for next to nothing, and never worry about this again.

Brother SRM wrote:

scubasteve04 wrote:There is a huge shortage of ML compared to the other heavy weapons circulated by the Dev box. For example, thewarstore.com has the ML listed for 14.99 USD while all the other heavy weapons are 4.99 (yes thats 75 dollars to kit one long fangs unit). There is not a single Devastator (or tactical) Missile Launcher for sale in all of canada on ebay, yet I can find the other heavy weapons in my own city.

GW could keep the current devastator box in circulation, and release a "Devastator Missile booster pack" with 4-5 Missile launchers and a few extra bits for space wolves ect.

With the massive amount of people running Missiles these days, you know they will sell.

There's something called "supply and demand" that I don't think you understand. More people want those rocket launchers, so they sell them for more money. More people want the Chaos Lord lightning claws, so they sell those for more money. Not as many people want those other heavy weapons and they are therefore cheaper. Plasma cannons are more rare than rocket launchers, yet Warstore doesn't sell them for $15 or whatever.

This has nothing to do with GW stupidity, this is just people whining that there aren't 4 rocket launchers in every box. Quit your bitching, buy some Imperial Guard rocket launchers for next to nothing, and never worry about this again.

You mean that part of supply and demand where either demand is high or supply is low or both so the price rises?...

"Quit your bitching" seems to be the only response that seems to be circulating, when in fact the thread is called "GW Stupidity"... I think this thread is meant for bitching

Also the Stupidity on GW's part is they could make more money selling a "Missile Booster Pack" same for any other weapon that people arnt buying from GW