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So, 10 IG equivalent dudes with plasma guns for 140pts sounds a wee bit silly. So does Draigo and making the entire Realm of Chaos his afternoon stomping grounds.

I sense much "hurrdurr" with this book.

I saw this thread 10 minutes after I plugged in my new kindle.

Fate is kind.


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Vaktathi wrote:So, 10 IG equivalent dudes with plasma guns for 140pts sounds a wee bit silly. So does Draigo and making the entire Realm of Chaos his afternoon stomping grounds.

I sense much "hurrdurr" with this book.

Someone must have remembered this old picture.

Also, users of Gabriel Seth might be a little miffed that the Brotherhood Champion can do nearly all his tricks at less cost:

WS 7, Initiative 5

Stances:

After assault moves are made but before blows are struck, he can perform one of three battle stances: Sword Storm, Blade Shield, or Rapier Strike.

Sword Storm: The champion makes a single attack for every enemy in base-to-base contact.
Blade Shield: Cannot make attacks, but can re-roll all failed saves this round.
Rapier Strike: Makes D3 attacks towards an IC or MC at Initiative 10.

Oh, did I mention that he carries a Nemesis Force Sword that can re-roll wounds. Oh, and did I mention that his entire unit can re-roll failed To-Hit rolls.

Dunno about Gabriel Seth, but he also has a 2+/4++. And he's cheaper.

Edit: Oh, and he has Hammerhand.

Ahhhh!!!! But he has less wounds and doesn't kick people that rolls ones in the face!!!!! But seriously yeah, the BC is pretty cool.

Hulksmash wrote:Ahhhh!!!! But he has less wounds and doesn't kick people that rolls ones in the face!!!!! But seriously yeah, the BC is pretty cool.

Good call, didn't notice the 1 wound.

I'm liking this unit: three plasma cannon servitors in a chimera with Corteaz. Not counting the cost of Corteaz (assuming you were planning on using him to unlock multiple henchmen units), it costs the same as a bare dreadnought. Combined with Corteaz's old-school mystic ability, you can effectively deny a important chunk of the table against deep-striking or flanking units.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:I saw this thread 10 minutes after I plugged in my new kindle.

Fate is kind.


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Vaktathi wrote:So, 10 IG equivalent dudes with plasma guns for 140pts sounds a wee bit silly. So does Draigo and making the entire Realm of Chaos his afternoon stomping grounds.

I sense much "hurrdurr" with this book.

Someone must have remembered this old picture.

Nice, good ole First Edition Paladin in Hell. Win.

CROWE ISNT AN INDEPENDENT CHARACTER...yeah...there had to be a drawback.

Mr Hyena wrote:

Neconilis wrote:

Mr Hyena wrote:Hmm...

On the basis of the wording so far I'll rule it as Henchmen do take a slot.

Its more balanced that way (no 1,000,000 Razorbacks/Chimeras) and it means also pure =I= is possible. Much fairer.

"This unit does not use up a force organisation slot." I don't see how that can be interpreted with any sort of ambiguity.

Because if it doesn't take up a slot; its going to lead to the mother of all cheesy lists.

See the 3-man Retinue squads with Razorbacks/Chimeras.

It does not take up a slot, but there is a limit to how many you can have. Read the sentence preceding it

lol looks like i missed out searching for the download no luck so far xD by the looks of it you guys are enjoying the read

Am I reading this correctly? Mordrak can be joined by a unit of ghost knights, which are cheaper than regular GKT, and for which you can purchase a wide range of options for each of the ghost knights. When Mordack suffers an unsaved wound then a ghost knight appears. The ghost knight that appears as a result of a wound has only default wargear (i.e., no options).

I see two interpretations.

1. These are brand new "free" ghost knights that are in addition to the one's you purchased.

or

2. The apparating ghost knights are the ones you purchased and thus Mordrak starts the game with no ghost knights on the board but you still have to purchase a set number of them and they only start appearing after he takes wounds.

Number 2 seems unlikely. Why specify their options if they can't have any and why provide the ability to buy more of them than Mordrak has wounds?

Number 1 seems kind of unlikely as well. In this case (i.e., the ghost knights that appear for each wound are in addition to the purchased squad of ghost knights), then the fact that the ghost terminators are cheaper, come with additional rules, and that it will be quite unlikely to have Mordrak die before all the ghosts are dead, makes him and his ghost terminators a great deal.

It's number 1. He buys the upgraded one, and each wound gives him an additional unupgraded one.

Cerebrium, thanks. That's how I was reading it as well. It just seemed too good a deal so I started doubting my interpretation.

It is a VERY nice deal.

Hah, through today I've done more research on GK than I seem to have done on the resto of my armies combined

EDIT-DELETE

Rumours have put the Warp Stabilization Field as ignoring perils of the warp on the vehicle that has it. However, it would appear (from my "sources") that Inquisitorial Chimera's have the option to take one, but don't have any psychic powers. I wonder what they REALLY do then... hmm.

Nearly everything in this codex, points-wise, seems like an insanely good deal.

Take Henchmen -
You could put together the equivalent of Stormtroopers from the IG book for 13 points a pop (vs 16).

Coteaz, for his insane metagame bonuses, is 100 points, and regular inquistors just 25? Compare to IG Ministorium Priests for 45.

Multi-melta servitors, 10 points a pop...wtf?

Death cult assassins...2 PW and WS5, S4, I6, A2 for cheaper than Banshees? Double WTF?

Vanilla Warrior Acolytes cheaper than vanilla Guardsmen?

At these insane points costs, a 2500 point 'Ard Boyz list would include more models than a mechvet guard army, with about 2x the effectiveness.

Henchmen Squad from hell (Shooty) - 207 points
3x Multi-Melta Servitors
Psychic
8x Warriors w/melta or plasma
Chimaera

Or, better yet, the CC version - 240 points
Banisher with Eviscerator
Crusader x 5 (tanks)
Assassin x 6
Chimaera

6 of either will run you about 1200 points and change.

That still leaves another 1200 or so for some REALLY heavy hitters (wide open elites and heavy slots). I haven't even gotten into comparison between vanilla SM and actual GK costs, but I'm sure they're just as bad.

There really will be no reason to play Guard or any kind of Marine list once this codex comes out if the points costs stay how they are. It'll take me all of 5 minutes to slap a ]I[ sticker on my mechvets and buy a few servitors and keep on truckin'.

My prayer is that the points costs in this leaked codex will undergo a major re-evaluation before official release.

All I hope is that if there is a points or whatever change; is that pure =I= should be competitive.

PolecatEZ wrote:I haven't even gotten into comparison between vanilla SM and actual GK costs, but I'm sure they're just as bad.

A run of the mill GK is 2 points more expensive than your run-of-the-mill Tactical marine.

Oh, and he has a Nemesis Force Weapon, a storm bolter, 3 different kinds of grenades, 2 different psychic powers and can become jump infantry for 6 pts. each.

Yeah. . .


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PolecatEZ wrote:
Henchmen Squad from hell (Shooty)

Or, better yet, the CC version

Yeah, Coteaz + Henchman Mob really make possibilities endless. If I was a GK player, I'd be excited about Henchmen.

Wow, I was looking at building an inquisitional army, and that looks quite scary.

12 Warrior Acolytes with 12 Plasma (or melta, or flame) guns, in a Chimera w/Hull Heavy Flamer - 223 pts

Seriously, that's broken. We're talking, completely un-fun to play with or against broken. I really really hope this isn't the final product.

I think you are over reacting Polecatz

Stormtroopers are BS4-there are no BS 4 henchmen-so that's a big reason for the point difference.

Servitor's sound cheap but you can't spam them because without an inquisitor they now mindlock on 1, 2 or 3. And Inquisitors are only HQ choices-so that is a big limit on them right there.

I do like your second example of the henchmen squad, Crusader/Assassin combo is going to bring the pain, with the eviscerator thrown in for good measure...Yikes!


I really like the rules for Karamazov's orbital relay strike---Only a couple guys left fighting that ork mob....

PolecatEZ wrote:Nearly everything in this codex, points-wise, seems like an insanely good deal.

Take Henchmen -
You could put together the equivalent of Stormtroopers from the IG book for 13 points a pop (vs 16).

Coteaz, for his insane metagame bonuses, is 100 points, and regular inquistors just 25? Compare to IG Ministorium Priests for 45.

Multi-melta servitors, 10 points a pop...wtf?

Death cult assassins...2 PW and WS5, S4, I6, A2 for cheaper than Banshees? Double WTF?

Vanilla Warrior Acolytes cheaper than vanilla Guardsmen?

1. No special mission, less BS
2. Regular inquisitors start with a pistol and carapace armor
3. Servitors mind lock themselves and their whole squad half the time
4. No fleet
5. No heavy weapons, no orders, no blobs.

after reading over this thread and the "leaked" dex, I'm kind of distraught. Was just about to start nids, but with imbalance of unit costs.... Looks like GW will lose sales with me over this. or at least I will hold off until I read the released dex front to back.

I hope this is fake, or that allot gets changed before printing. If they thoroughly play tested this and think its balanced with all armies (minus daemons, though some one threw out the idea of giving them with out number to balance), they need better play testers.

(prediction if its all true) Top 10 places of every tournament for the next few years, Grey Knights. Nids and Daemons will never be seen again.

Igenstilch wrote:after reading over this thread and the "leaked" dex, I'm kind of distraught. Was just about to start nids, but with imbalance of unit costs.... Looks like GW will lose sales with me over this. or at least I will hold off until I read the released dex front to back.

I hope this is fake, or that allot gets changed before printing. If they thoroughly play tested this and think its balanced with all armies (minus daemons, though some one threw out the idea of giving them with out number to balance), they need better play testers.

(prediction if its all true) Top 10 places of every tournament for the next few years, Grey Knights. Nids and Daemons will never be seen again.

I have no intention of shelving, or even cutting back on playing, my Nids.

Honestly, Inquisitors+warbands look like incredibly flexible fun units that can make an army unique. I really like the way they designed it to FEEL like an inquisitors requisitioned collection of people and things.

Also, I know everyone is caught up on DC Assassins for the warbands killing power. But Arco-Flaggelents seems ridiculous for their costs as well. 4 Str 5 WS 5 attacks with FNP for 15 points seems nuts.

Any idea what Truesilver armor does? Was it in the last DH book?

Igenstilch wrote:after reading over this thread and the "leaked" dex, I'm kind of distraught. Was just about to start nids, but with imbalance of unit costs.... Looks like GW will lose sales with me over this. or at least I will hold off until I read the released dex front to back.

I hope this is fake, or that allot gets changed before printing. If they thoroughly play tested this and think its balanced with all armies (minus daemons, though some one threw out the idea of giving them with out number to balance), they need better play testers.

(prediction if its all true) Top 10 places of every tournament for the next few years, Grey Knights. Nids and Daemons will never be seen again.

I'm curious how you think this army will have a bigger negative impact against nids then Dark Eldar did. That army seemed made to kill nids. This one just seems powerful, in line with the top tiers of armies. It should have no bigger effect on nids then it does on Eldar or Nilla marines.

ph34r wrote:

PolecatEZ wrote:Nearly everything in this codex, points-wise, seems like an insanely good deal.

Take Henchmen -
You could put together the equivalent of Stormtroopers from the IG book for 13 points a pop (vs 16).

Coteaz, for his insane metagame bonuses, is 100 points, and regular inquistors just 25? Compare to IG Ministorium Priests for 45.

Multi-melta servitors, 10 points a pop...wtf?

Death cult assassins...2 PW and WS5, S4, I6, A2 for cheaper than Banshees? Double WTF?

Vanilla Warrior Acolytes cheaper than vanilla Guardsmen?

1. No special mission, less BS

Everyone gets a plasma or melta, cheaper...

2. Regular inquisitors start with a pistol and carapace armor

Min. Priest w/Eviscerator, 60 pts. Inquisitor w/Artificer Armor and Demonblade, 55 pts. You make da' call.

3. Servitors mind lock themselves and their whole squad half the time

For 10 points/multi-melta (total model cost), I'll take that chance if they're stacked with an inquisitor.

4. No fleet

For +1 across the entire stat-line, and a -1 point cost, I'll give up fleet. Besides, who uses fleet when they can be tossed out the front of a land raider or storm raven?

5. No heavy weapons, no orders, no blobs.

Because if everyone has a melta gun, you still really need that autocannon...and how often have orders made or broken a game? Ok, you got me on the blobs, good point.

This is still seriously broken by points cost.

I'm curious...what did people think of the Librarian psychic powers? Some of them seemed a bit over the top...reducing toughness by 1 (counting for instant death! So Marines will be ID'd with S6 shots instead of S8), instakill if you fail your initiative test(no save allowed) psychic templates, and the Brotherhood Champions 'i will maek one attack that will kill one thing i touch' rule. I can see some horrible applications for this...horrible, horrible applications.

I wonder if Psychic Mastery is a grey knights thing or if it is a 6th edition thing...