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kenshin620 wrote:Awesome! Going to look through these now. I can see some really silly combos but really if you're going to use this dex to WAAC, then you need to rethink your life

Although...Land Raiders ignoring meltas/lances

Yeah, things definately need some playtesting for fairness, but at least you have to take a squad in order to take Land Raiders using these rules (transports).

Asherian Command wrote:Want us to start getting good custom chapters up that use this as a basis?

I'd love some Custom Chapter, but for the Example Chapters I'd rather have GW Official stuff, that way we have some familiarity and some lore to base them around. Salamanders, Raven Guard, Iron Fists, White Scars, anything really.

Asherian Command wrote:Also my chapter has 30 companies and doesn't follow the Codex Astrates. So what do I do now? only 15 of them are named, 7 of which are masters. So does this mean I can only have 17 named captains/masters?

You can have 10 named Captains. Sadly there is no official lore/fluff to support there being more than 10 Companies per Chapter, most Chapters have 10 or less. The only chapter that seems to have more than 10 Companies in actual fluff/lore is the Space Wolves, who seem to have around 14 Great Companies. I may up the number of allowed Captains to 15, but I can't see the Inquisition liking too many chapters getting above the 10 Company mark.

Also remember that these rules aren't set in stone. Talk to the people you play with, ask them if its alright if you make more than 10 Captains.

Marik Law wrote:

kenshin620 wrote:Awesome! Going to look through these now. I can see some really silly combos but really if you're going to use this dex to WAAC, then you need to rethink your life

Although...Land Raiders ignoring meltas/lances

Yeah, things definately need some playtesting for fairness, but at least you have to take a squad in order to take Land Raiders using these rules (transports).

Oh dont worry, I'll just fill them up with my Storm Shield armed T5 marine squads with apothecaries

30 Companies! Wow.
(edit: The fluff actually does allow for something like this, they just aren't viewed as companies. The Black Templar function as crusades and as there are many crusades going on at the same time, the entire chapter is rarely if ever present as a whole. Nobody but the Grand Marshall (Chapter Master?) knows how many Black Templar there actually are, but it is certainly larger than the standard chapter. A company of 30 companies probably would be forced to split into 2 or three chapters though, just like the original legions that separated.)

Anyway, looking forward to using it. Might not be able to do much today, I've got a ton of work to get done. I'll probably get to work on my chapter's fandex here shortly now that your chapter creator is near complete. Thanks again for all your work on this project!

Here is one fix that I just noticed. Faith is it's own reward... should be Faith is its own reward.

Also in Through Faith We gain strength... the last sentence is a bit confusing... I edited it in my own fluff to be 'take/create one more Hero'

I will let you know any more typos as I come across them.

EDIT: Also under the Chapter Heroes- Librarians in the basics you say Grand Librarians... i think you mean Chief Librarians

Rocketmike wrote:30 Companies! Wow.
(edit: The fluff actually does allow for something like this, they just aren't viewed as companies. The Black Templar function as crusades and as there are many crusades going on at the same time, the entire chapter is rarely if ever present as a whole. Nobody but the Grand Marshall (Chapter Master?) knows how many Black Templar there actually are, but it is certainly larger than the standard chapter. A company of 30 companies probably would be forced to split into 2 or three chapters though, just like the original legions that separated.)

Anyway, looking forward to using it. Might not be able to do much today, I've got a ton of work to get done. I'll probably get to work on my chapter's fandex here shortly now that your chapter creator is near complete. Thanks again for all your work on this project!

If you read my Storm Crusaders Lore Panel it explains why they are able to do this.

Heres a link(http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/240/280380.page#3378899)

But anyway I will try and use this as the basis for my chapter as it radically differs from other chapters.

Nice rules. I had a play with the rules and was able to create some pretty fun and balanced rules for a Loyalist World Eaters/CC SM chapter. All in all I’m impressed. I noticed there are a few cheesy combos (such as using the superior strength mutation with the furious charge special rule) but nothing necessarily overpowered or “Matt Ward” crazy. My only criticism is that the wording for the unique unit section definitely needs work. I found myself going back and forth and having to reread a few sections to make sense of things.


Take the fight to them
Never Give up, never surrender
Leave them no quarter

Hero Captain - 100pts
Unique Chainsword (+D6 attacks, wounds cause instant death, master crafted) 50pts
Rending 10pts
Furious charge for unit 30pts

Unique Space Marine Squad
Each marine equipped with unique chainswords (D6 extra attacks) +7pts
Assault marine special weapon options

Unique Landraider - 140pts
No front sponson
Unique Melta gun side sponsons (spray) 60pts
Pintle mounted missile launcher 20pts

candy.man wrote:Nice rules. I had a play with the rules and was able to create some pretty fun and balanced rules for a Loyalist World Eaters/CC SM chapter. All in all I’m impressed. I noticed there are a few cheesy combos (such as using the superior strength mutation with the furious charge special rule) but nothing necessarily overpowered or “Matt Ward” crazy. My only criticism is that the wording for the unique unit section definitely needs work. I found myself going back and forth and having to reread a few sections to make sense of things.


Take the fight to them
Never Give up, never surrender
Leave them no quarter

Hero Captain - 100pts
Unique Chainsword (+D6 attacks, wounds cause instant death, master crafted) 50pts
Rending 10pts
Furious charge for unit 30pts

Unique Space Marine Squad
Each marine equipped with unique chainswords (D6 extra attacks) +7pts
Assault marine special weapon options

Unique Landraider - 140pts
No front sponson
Unique Melta gun side sponsons (spray) 60pts
Pintle mounted missile launcher 20pts

Super cheesy it seems Lol!

candy.man wrote:Nice rules. I had a play with the rules and was able to create some pretty fun and balanced rules for a Loyalist World Eaters/CC SM chapter. All in all I’m impressed. I noticed there are a few cheesy combos (such as using the superior strength mutation with the furious charge special rule) but nothing necessarily overpowered or “Matt Ward” crazy. My only criticism is that the wording for the unique unit section definitely needs work. I found myself going back and forth and having to reread a few sections to make sense of things.


Take the fight to them
Never Give up, never surrender
Leave them no quarter

Hero Captain - 100pts
Unique Chainsword (+D6 attacks, wounds cause instant death, master crafted) 50pts
Rending 10pts
Furious charge for unit 30pts

Unique Space Marine Squad
Each marine equipped with unique chainswords (D6 extra attacks) +7pts
Assault marine special weapon options

Unique Landraider - 140pts
No front sponson
Unique Melta gun side sponsons (spray) 60pts
Pintle mounted missile launcher 20pts

Yeah, some of the combos can be pretty bad, but that's where the other players come in. With games like this, you can't hand-hold everyone, if you do we get really bland Codex books (*cough* early 3rd Edition *cough*), so its really up to others to go "I'm sorry, that doesn't seem very balanced to me, I'm not playing with you."

The Alternative Rules section, when it's made, will produce even more optional balancing mechanics. Like what? Grouping like Combat Practices together (forcing people to pick from a single category) would be one example of what I'm planning on for Alternate Rules.

Also which parts in particular were you having trouble with? Let me know and I'll do my best to iron them out.

I'm also going to make it clear that the bonuses provided by Deviations do not stack with other effects (so you would still only get +1 Strength, even with Furious Charge).

Thanks for your reply. I figured as much regarding the balance issue but I made the post anyway. I say anyway that I really liked your asterisk system (perhaps this can be used for unique weapons as well). Bonuses not stacking absolute absolutely should alleviate the balance issues I encountered.

In regards to parts that were hard to understand, the wargear section for unique unit creation was the part that I had issues with (only because I think it could have been explain clearer).

Okay that makes sense, now if we only had a special rule for crusade chapters. Without number would be hilarious in my mind rofl!

But what else would chapters like crusades, and chapters like the Crimson fists or the wanderers that are close to extinction shouldn't they get like special rules like. "The Fate of the Chapter is upon us." Where in the last turn they get some bonuses or something?

While looking throught it i've come up with a problem, while trying to create a Vulkan He'stan model i realised there's no way to make his Kaesares Mantle, is there any chance you'll add an option to make custom amour for special characters at some point, rather than just being able to use the default armour

Overloded wrote:While looking throught it i've come up with a problem, while trying to create a Vulkan He'stan model i realised there's no way to make his Kaesares Mantle, is there any chance you'll add an option to make custom amour for special characters at some point, rather than just being able to use the default armour

I've kind of wondered about this myself. Dawn of War II has armor that grants special traits to your character. I was myself wondering about how to make "Armor of Retribution" for my character so that any enemy model that rolls a 1 to hit in close combat suffers a str 4 hit, rolling to wound and save as normal. Custom non-weapon wargear would be pretty neat but might be difficult to balance. The only way I can think to do this would be to look at the effects and points costs of every armory item available to the numerous armies and races to get ideas for non-weapon wargear.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Had an idea! What about still only having the basic armor allowed (power armor, artificer and terminator) but allowing special characters to take a certain number of "seals" to customize the armor. For instance, maybe Independent characters can have up to 2 seals on their armor (each one having an appropriate point cost for their ability).

Seals could have a range of effects from making enemies firing at your unit have to use night fighting rules to inflicting wounds against enemies who make failed cc attacks against you.

Reclusiarch – 210
Master of Sanctity
Assault Company
+2 Toughness and +2 Weapon Skill

Dawnhammer - 35
Phasing
Power Weapon
Powerful

Boltgun of Faith - 31
Storm Bolter
Powerful
Spray
Double Barreled
Stalker Scope

Did I do this right? Please let me know

candy.man wrote:Thanks for your reply. I figured as much regarding the balance issue but I made the post anyway. I say anyway that I really liked your asterisk system (perhaps this can be used for unique weapons as well). Bonuses not stacking absolute absolutely should alleviate the balance issues I encountered.

In regards to parts that were hard to understand, the wargear section for unique unit creation was the part that I had issues with (only because I think it could have been explain clearer).

I'll see what I can do, main problem is space constraints.

Asherian Command wrote:Okay that makes sense, now if we only had a special rule for crusade chapters. Without number would be hilarious in my mind rofl!

But what else would chapters like crusades, and chapters like the Crimson fists or the wanderers that are close to extinction shouldn't they get like special rules like. "The Fate of the Chapter is upon us." Where in the last turn they get some bonuses or something?

I'll see about fiddling with the Captains to allow a greater number of them. I may just remove the limitation on Captains all together.

Not sure how one could easily represent chapter's who are vastly understrength other than things such as being Stubborn. I'll think on it, feel free to throw some ideas my way too.

Overloded wrote:While looking throught it i've come up with a problem, while trying to create a Vulkan He'stan model i realised there's no way to make his Kaesares Mantle, is there any chance you'll add an option to make custom amour for special characters at some point, rather than just being able to use the default armour

You can already do this.

All you have to do is select what level of armour the character has normally (such as Scout, Artificer, etc, at the points costs), then just add Wargear traits/rules onto it at the appropriate points costs.

Let's say you wanted to create a unique suit of Artificer Armour for a Captain. Upgrade the captain to having Artificer Armour normally, then simply go to the Unique Wargear section and add the rules that you want onto that points costs.

This was done on purpose as I didn't feel it necessary to have armour entries twice (in the hero or unit section and in the unique wargear section). So you can indeed create unique suits of armour, just tack the Unique Wargear points costs onto the cost of the armour.

Now that you've brought it up though I will add a section to the final version which explains how to create armour in more detail to avoid future issues/confusion.

Justicar Cliesthenes wrote:Reclusiarch – 210
Master of Sanctity
Assault Company
+2 Toughness and +2 Weapon Skill

Dawnhammer - 35
Phasing
Power Weapon
Powerful

Boltgun of Faith - 31
Storm Bolter
Powerful
Spray
Double Barreled
Stalker Scope

Did I do this right? Please let me know

Hmm, not quite.

Reclusiarch = 130 Points (100 + 30 for upgrade to Reclusiarch)
Master of Sanctity = 50 Points
Assault Company = 20 Points
Stat Upgrades = 40 Points
Total so far: 240 points

Dawnhammer is correct.

The Bolter of Faith would only be 16 points. Values for the ranged weapons mean different things than the values for the other wargear sections.

So your Chaplain would end up costing 291 points.

I think that. Regardless of HQ changer every chapter should be able to make 1 war smith, reclusiarch, and grand librarian

L33TFROG wrote:I think that. Regardless of HQ changer every chapter should be able to make 1 war smith, reclusiarch, and grand librarian

Hmm, I'll think about it, problem with it though is that none of the 5th Generation Marine codex books seem to support this. Even Tigurius, whom is an incredibly impressive Librarian in his own right and the Chief Librarian (Master of the Librarium by my rules standards) of his chapter only has stats in line with the regular Librarian in my rules.

But as I said earlier, these rules aren't set in stone, talk to the people you play with and ask them if it's alright.

Well Ever since people come over to my house to play games. It is my rules so they can follow these rules as well. As most of us play marines so we always do Horus Hersey Battles or massive Chaos Marines vs Renegade marines or something else entirely.

Of course I just want the rules so I can finally explain some stuff about my chapter rofl. Never thought of any traits for them, apart from being siege experts from long range and their anti-xenos mostly.

Marik Law wrote:

Overloded wrote:While looking throught it i've come up with a problem, while trying to create a Vulkan He'stan model i realised there's no way to make his Kaesares Mantle, is there any chance you'll add an option to make custom amour for special characters at some point, rather than just being able to use the default armour

You can already do this.

All you have to do is select what level of armour the character has normally (such as Scout, Artificer, etc, at the points costs), then just add Wargear traits/rules onto it at the appropriate points costs.

Let's say you wanted to create a unique suit of Artificer Armour for a Captain. Upgrade the captain to having Artificer Armour normally, then simply go to the Unique Wargear section and add the rules that you want onto that points costs.

This was done on purpose as I didn't feel it necessary to have armour entries twice (in the hero or unit section and in the unique wargear section). So you can indeed create unique suits of armour, just tack the Unique Wargear points costs onto the cost of the armour.

Now that you've brought it up though I will add a section to the final version which explains how to create armour in more detail to avoid future issues/confusion.

Ahh ty, that wasn't in the last version was it? which was the one i was looking at, looks like you've got everything covered anyway i'll get on with my list.

Ah, I had made my most recent post without having read the updated pdf. I see my suggestions for wargear were completely unnecessary. I love the Beast creator. I was planing on having an Avatar of Light in my army and was originally going to have to borrow a deamon prince or something from a chaos marine codex. This should work perfectly though. Nicely done. Can't wait to see what you come up with for the psychic powers section.

The New creator is quite neat. I enjoyed the old one, but now I'm going to have to take a look at the new one in better detail. good job


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also:

Why dont you set it up so that people can download the older copies as well, so that people can see just how far this has progressed?

Ok. Firstly, Love the updates, especially the beast section. But I also have some thoughts on it.

In the description on the left side it says "huge monsters" while the profile says "monstrous." Minor detail.

Now, When I first saw the beast section I thought to myself "PERFECT!" because I wanted to, in essence, create my chapter's own unique god/avatar. The Huge/Monstrous creature option looked to be my best bet but I quickly ran into a problem. You see, I was hoping the unit would end up being comparable to the eldar's avatar of Khaine or a melee focused wraithlord. Another comparison was a daemon prince from the chaos codex or even a dread-knight from GK. There just aren't enough options to create anything quite as strong and even if you tried with the given options the model would be a weaker, much more expensive version that far passes the 100 point limit. Options for ranged weapons might be nice for some people but personally I only care about the melee for my purposes and the ranged weapons might be an option by essentially adding a "rider" with the weapon, whether he is actually there or not.

It might be reasonable to put 2 wounds as the starting point for each of the beast sizes. I would also love to see an "Armored" option that gives a 3+ armor save (2+ would be pushing it) as well as some form of invulnerable save for the large and monstrous size creatures. As it is, by the time you are done decking out your huge creature it is going to get to the 100 pt limit very quickly and it wont be able to contend with anything of equal value.

Just some thoughts/requests. Still love all the great work!

awesome rules!!
Cant wait for the unit creator!!)))

can't wait for the space marine squad i can make that has cloaking technology and inflatration rofl! Marines with sniper rifles FTW!

This looks awesome, but some of the "Before You Begin" rules seem a little odd. Specifically, the MotF and Land Raider restrictions and the prevention of Chapter Masters. Mind explaining?

I believe the "Master of the Chapter" upgrade is intended to create your "Chapter Master" as comparable to SM or any number of "Grand Masters" comparable to the GK. If that is the case however, the upgrade should probably be increased and include the orbital bombardment that a Chapter Master normally has though the orbital bombardment option is available if you make the character the Master of the Fleet.

If I am mistaken and this is not the intention, it might be expected that you simply take the Chapter Master from the codex as is and upgrade him using the same points system as you would a Captain from the rules presented in the PDF.

Hmm. Alright then.
Just a thought- Heavy Flamers should be allowed as heavy weapons in Tactical/Scout, etc squads and in Devastator squads when using Cleanse and Purify...

I like the idea of Hardened Body & Apothecary Sergeants. That right there is probably the best combination. Its like Plague Marines . . . for FREEE!

Though I do thoroughly enjoy this Chapter Creator since it allows to make really fun, balanced, and fluffy armies.

AchillesFTW wrote:I like the idea of Hardened Body & Apothecary Sergeants. That right there is probably the best combination. Its like Plague Marines . . . for FREEE!

Though I do thoroughly enjoy this Chapter Creator since it allows to make really fun, balanced, and fluffy armies.

not really a apothecary sergeant costs 40 pts each.

Also with unit creator can someone help me make a light infantry squad for marines that use scopes with their bolters that use different bolter rounds? I can't think of anything. I know they need to be marines basically that don't use jump packs but are deployed for scouting and everything in power armor but they are really good at it. arghh.

Being an apothecary is 10pts for a sergeant. So yeah its not FREE, but its still way cheaper than paying the 23pts per Plague Marine.

In total an Apothecary costs 36pts, but he comes at 26pts in the first place.

AchillesFTW wrote:Being an apothecary is 10pts for a sergeant. So yeah its not FREE, but its still way cheaper than paying the 23pts per Plague Marine.

In total an Apothecary costs 36pts, but he comes at 26pts in the first place.

still a fully loaded tactical squad is expensive.