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After a long time of picking apart the stand-alone Marine books (Black Templars, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves) I started noticing certain patterns and trends within the books and decided to use what I had learned in order to create my own take on the Chapter Creation rules.

These rules are still unfinished as I plan to add in a Unit Creation section as well, but I wanted to share them with you as they are now so I can get some feedback on them, some balancing suggestions to the various options I've listed (I'm not ultra-concerned with balance, but I don't want things to be so completely broken that everything else in the list is overshadowed), as well as suggestions for new Combat Practices, Mutations, Chapter Tactics, Company Tactics, and more.

I hope you guys have as much fun with these rules as I had making them. Cheers!

PROGRESS: Halfway finished the Custom Psychic Powers section, roughly about 90% complete as of right now.

UPDATE - SEPTEMBER 26/11: Releasing the very rough version of the Final Alpha document for the Chapter Creator. This document contains everything except for Custom Psychic Powers, Example Chapters, and Alternate Rules. Note that there will be some spelling errors and well as other errors, if you all can point them out to me that would be amazing. Also, if you have any suggestions for the final version, let me know!

This is great! I'll be making one up soon.

Besides that, I'm really looking forward to a unit creator.

The Zoat wrote:This is great! I'll be making one up soon.

Besides that, I'm really looking forward to a unit creator.

Thank you, really appreciate the compliment of my work. The final document will have all the grammar and spelling errors worked out and will look much nicer, just keeping things rough until then.

If you have any suggestions for any additions to what I have so far please let me know, the more robust I can make this and the more choices I can give people the better.

This is really awesome! I will make rules for my Chapter soon.

One thing; The specialization special rules is useless for thunder hammers/lightning claws/power fists, because it stands 'may re-roll failed to hit rolls when shooting'. Just a grammatical error i guess.

I'm looking forward to a unit creator.

Molenis wrote:This is really awesome! I will make rules for my Chapter soon.

One thing; The specialization special rules is useless for thunder hammers/lightning claws/power fists, because it stands 'may re-roll failed to hit rolls when shooting'. Just a grammatical error i guess.

I'm looking forward to a unit creator.

Fixed. Will be correct in the newest version.

Very interesting! It looks like you've put a lot of thought into this.

squidhills wrote:Very interesting! It looks like you've put a lot of thought into this.

Most definitely and I'm always trying to add new options onto it. The Unit Creator won't be done until I'm absolutely sure what I have is both flexible and at least somewhat fair.

Working on using this to make the Salamanders now.

Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:Working on using this to make the Salamanders now.

Let me know how that turns out. Working on the next version of the Chapter Creator right now. Added some new features and will include the Unit Creation rules.

Here we go, Chapter Master Tu'Shan:

Cleanse and Purify

Hammer of The Forge

Heed The Wisdom Of Ancients

Veteran Chapter Master: 130 Points

Preferred Enemy(Orks) for Entire Army: +40 Points

Preferred Enemy(Eldar and Dark Eldar) For Entire Army: +40 Points

Thunder Hammer: 30 Points

Bolt Pistol w/ Extra Penetration x3: 30 Points

W/ Melta Rounds: 35 Points

W/ Powerful Shot x4: 55 Points

Melta Pistol Total: 55 Points

Total: 295

I think that Melta Pistols should be a basic option, and not cost 55 Points. Maybe just add a "Pistol Compression: +20 Points" Option for any Assault 1 weapon.

Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:I think that Melta Pistols should be a basic option, and not cost 55 Points. Maybe just add a "Pistol Compression: +20 Points" Option for any Assault 1 weapon.

Very good idea, thank you. Love how the Chapter Master turned out by the way, looks very Salamanders-like.

Update on the Unit Creation section: The section isn't going to be insanely flexible. I'm making it as flexible as possible, but the first iteration will not have rules to deal with independent characters that aren't special characters (like the Sanguinary Priests) and will not (probably ever) include rules for units that don't take up force organization slots.

this sound great, only have had a quick skim over the rule but from what i can see it looks awesome.
any plans in the future to make one for other armies.

ironhandstraken

edit: on the second page with the Combat Practices, the Emperor's Light Destroy Our Foes "and Plasma Cannons longer have the Gets Hot! special rule." is there suppose to be a not in there.other then that great job and i'm looking forward to seeing what you make next

ironhandstraken wrote:this sound great, only have had a quick skim over the rule but from what i can see it looks awesome.
any plans in the future to make one for other armies.

ironhandstraken

edit: on the second page with the Combat Practices, the Emperor's Light Destroy Our Foes "and Plasma Cannons longer have the Gets Hot! special rule." is there suppose to be a not in there.other then that great job and i'm looking forward to seeing what you make next

Hmm, yes, there should be a "no" before "longer have", I must have corrected it on my side already as the document I'm working on has it fixed.

As for future projects I have a few ideas, haven't decided which one I'm going to roll with yet though.

Chapter master Kardan Stronos of the Iron Hands:

clense and purify
hardened body
praise the machine god
heed the wisdom of the ancients
warsmith chapter master
minus one weapon skill
specialation bolters
first company veterans
sternguard company
meltagun
rapid fire weapon
extra shot
gets hot

lol only 210 points of awesomeness
he's amaizing a 3 shot meltagun thats rapid fire so nothing really changes but i get an extra shot for it and it being twin linked get's hot dont matter. that and sternguard troops that re-roll to hit

James100 wrote:he's amaizing a 3 shot meltagun thats rapid fire so nothing really changes but i get an extra shot for it

How did you get a 3 shot Rapid Fire weapon? If you use one of the special modifications to change a Meltagun into a Rapid Fire weapon it then counts as a Rapid Fire weapon, so any benefits from upgrades such as Rapid Mechanisms can no longer be taken.

I can see where the confusion may lay though and I've added a section in to clarify such. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Love IT! the Shadow Legion shall have there own Codex soon!

One note: To really accurately represent the Salamanders, they should have Hammers of The Forge, Cleanse and Purify, and Hardened Body, but your system only allows two of the three.

Alanki Harek, Chapter Master of the Crimson Angels

Death From Above

May The Emperor's Light Destroy Our Foes

On Wings of Angels

Veteran Chapter Master: 125 Points

Plasma Weapon Specialization for entire Army: +60 Points (185)

Power Sword with Rending: 25 Points (210)

Plasma Pistol with Explosive Rounds and Extended Barrel: 35 Points (245)

245 Points total

Nightfall wrote:Love IT! the Shadow Legion shall have there own Codex soon!

Glad to hear people are enjoying the rules so much. I'm glad I could create something enjoyable that is at least somewhat balanced.

Unit Creation is coming along nicely, should hopefully be done soon. Also, while it won't be in the next version I release, I plan on having an Examples section which includes rules for some Chapters, their Chapter Master, and a unique unit or two for a few chapters (including the Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, Blood Ravens, Raven Guard, and more). I'll keep everyone posted!

Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:One note: To really accurately represent the Salamanders, they should have Hammers of The Forge, Cleanse and Purify, and Hardened Body, but your system only allows two of the three.

You're in luck, I've solved this with the next version already to accommodate chapters which have three Combat Practices (at the expense of having no Chapter Tactics).

My unique Bolter, an angel's wings. Basically a bolter, with and sight that has wings on it.

Nightfall wrote:My unique Bolter, an angel's wings. Basically a bolter, with and sight that has wings on it.

Yes, but you can only take extra shots for non-Pistol, non-Rapid Fire weapons. By changing the Meltagun into a Rapid Fire weapon using Rapid Fire Modifications you make it a Rapid Fire weapon, thus you can no longer take Rapid Mechanisms. Again, sorry for the confusion, the new version will make this more clear.

EDIT: In case it went unnoticed, the rough version of the final product is now available. I'll be attempting to clean up the unit creator a bit for the final version, but for now I ask that you all please bear with the clunkiness of how it sits and if you have any questions about it just let me know.

Good idea, but I think there ought to be some variety of drawbacks to counterbalance the bonuses provided by Combat Practices and Mutations. Limitations on army list selection, add to the points cost of wargear the Chapter doesn't specialize in, that sort of thing.

AnomanderRake wrote:Good idea, but I think there ought to be some variety of drawbacks to counterbalance the bonuses provided by Combat Practices and Mutations. Limitations on army list selection, add to the points cost of wargear the Chapter doesn't specialize in, that sort of thing.

The reason such has been left out is because it was too easily abused during the days of the Chapter Creator, that and with the current line of marine Codex books (Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves) it doesn't make sense. I may add more restrictions to certain Combat Practices or Mutations, but I don't see much point in bringing in a drawback system since the primary Codex books (Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves) don't suffer from such drawbacks. Also, when you factor in things like the Unit Creator, it's too easy to get around such a Drawbacks system and not notice any hindering to your forces.

Another problem with a Drawbacks system is that each chapter is different in it's needs and it's situations, something which is better represented by the player's own intervention and invention rather than something that is forced upon them. Drawbacks also have become much harder with the new vanilla marine codex with the removal of things such as relics and terminator command squads. While I can understand the want or need for drawbacks I don't view them as necessary. If somebody is abusing these rules simply refuse to play with them as they aren't really playing for fun or in the spirit of the simple fun the game.

However, if you feel a Combat Practice or Mutation is too good as-is please let me know, I will do my best to tweak it to make it a bit more in line with the other Combat Practices or Mutations.

UPDATE: The finalized, updated, improved and easier to use version version is roughly 50% completed. What I have left to finish: The rest of the Unit Creation entries (they are 100x easier to use than in the current version), Special Rules section, Unique Wargear section, Unique Psychic Powers section, and the Example Chapters section (which will include Special Characters and Unique Units for Salamanders, White Scars, and more).

This is pretty neat! One thing though is that you seem to confuse Combat Practises with Combat Tactics - what is what? It appears it is the same but with two names, so it would be easier to understand if one name was chosen.

One addition I'd like to see for unique ranged weapons would be similar to dragonfire rounds, i.e. ignore cover saves.

Lastly a question about special weapons for (special) units: I assume that there is a difference between when you replace any of their ranged weapons, and when you add them as options?
Also, when you are able to make librarians/chaplains elites, are there any possibility to give them as units special wargear?

In any case I'll try to make something about Dragon Guard:

Combat Practises(Tactics?):
Cleanse and Purify
Death From Above
Run Like the Wind

Chapter Tactics:
Knowledge is Power

Chapter Master Zaohren:
Veteran Chapter Master - 125
Ancient (twice) - 35
Furious Charge (him and joined unit) - 30
Weapon: Power weapon, built-in flamer, +2 Strength - 30
220

Not completely finished though, but still.

Saintspirit wrote:This is pretty neat! One thing though is that you seem to confuse Combat Practises with Combat Tactics - what is what? It appears it is the same but with two names, so it would be easier to understand if one name was chosen.

If you could let me know where some of these mistakes are, I'll be sure to correct them in the final version.

Saintspirit wrote:One addition I'd like to see for unique ranged weapons would be similar to dragonfire rounds, i.e. ignore cover saves.

Definately something that will be added in the final version.

Saintspirit wrote:Lastly a question about special weapons for (special) units: I assume that there is a difference between when you replace any of their ranged weapons, and when you add them as options?
Also, when you are able to make librarians/chaplains elites, are there any possibility to give them as units special wargear?

For the first question: yes, the original unit creator is pretty rough around the edges and not very well laid out, something that is being corrected in the final version with easier to understand rules.

Second question: Sadly I have no plans to do such at this point in time. The final version will have rules on making minor alterations to already existing units, but that's about it. I'll see what I can do though.

Marik Law wrote:

Saintspirit wrote:This is pretty neat! One thing though is that you seem to confuse Combat Practises with Combat Tactics - what is what? It appears it is the same but with two names, so it would be easier to understand if one name was chosen.

If you could let me know where some of these mistakes are, I'll be sure to correct them in the final version.

On page 2, you wrote the various Combat Practises. Then, on page 5 you say that "If you do not choose any Chapter Tactics you may take one additional Combat Tactic instead." Do you mean Combat Practises there, or have aI missed the page about Combat Tactics?

Saintspirit wrote:

Marik Law wrote:

Saintspirit wrote:This is pretty neat! One thing though is that you seem to confuse Combat Practises with Combat Tactics - what is what? It appears it is the same but with two names, so it would be easier to understand if one name was chosen.

If you could let me know where some of these mistakes are, I'll be sure to correct them in the final version.

On page 2, you wrote the various Combat Practises. Then, on page 5 you say that "If you do not choose any Chapter Tactics you may take one additional Combat Tactic instead." Do you mean Combat Practises there, or have aI missed the page about Combat Tactics?

Yes, that would be a typo, thank you for pointing this out. It has been corrected for the much prettier and much easier to use final version (which includes more Hero options, more Unit options, custom Psychic Powers, and more!).

You my friend is a ing genius, i will quickly come up with my own and post it here !

Awesome, may have to try this out later

Hey ! This is a very nice idea !
I know some of my friends who will be pretty happy with these chapterish options
Keep up the good work ! I eagerly await the final version.

So here's my chapter (haven't figured out any name yet)

Combat practices:

Know your enemy
See but dont be seen

Chapter tactics:

Shadows that move

Chapter Hero:

Veteran Chapter master 125
Special rules:
Skilled x2 (BS) 35

Eternal warrior 35
Precision (BS) 10
Move through cover 5
Fleet 5

Wargear:
Artificier Armour 15
Unique Bolter 30

= 260


Unique ranged weapon:

Bolter free
Extended barrel 5
Extra penetration 10
Poison rounds 2+ 15
= 30