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First, Give them one or more of the following special rules:
Chameleonic 10 pts
Infiltrate 1
Move through Cover 1
Scouts 2
Shimmer 3
Stealth 1

Now give them a simple Bolter with the following upgrades:
Ammo: Pinning 2 pts
Attachment: Stalker Scope 2

I would probably only take the Infiltrate, Move Through Cover and Shimmer special rules if I was making this squad a troops choice aimed at stalking people. That puts each model's points cost at 25 pts. If it were me, I'd probably give them an extended barrel as well at +5 points each making them 30 pts but that sounds kinda pricey for a stealth squad model. Then again, they get +1 to their cover saves and always hit on +2 with a pinning 24" range bolter. I would also probably model them with some kind of cloak that covers them up at least partially and paint it camo but paint the rest of their armor to match the chapter.

Rocketmike wrote:First, Give them one or more of the following special rules:
Chameleonic 10 pts
Infiltrate 1
Move through Cover 1
Scouts 2
Shimmer 3
Stealth 1

Now give them a simple Bolter with the following upgrades:
Ammo: Pinning 2 pts
Attachment: Stalker Scope 2

I would probably only take the Infiltrate, Move Through Cover and Shimmer special rules if I was making this squad a troops choice aimed at stalking people. That puts each model's points cost at 25 pts. If it were me, I'd probably give them an extended barrel as well at +5 points each making them 30 pts but that sounds kinda pricey for a stealth squad model. Then again, they get +1 to their cover saves and always hit on +2 with a pinning 24" range bolter. I would also probably model them with some kind of cloak that covers them up at least partially and paint it camo but paint the rest of their armor to match the chapter.

i want to be a fast attack choice. like the warpspiders rofl.

Lol, it is so easy to make OTT characters
I made a almost 400 Point character

Ah, see, by scouts I had a "ranger" type character in mind. Not sure what to tell ya.

One thing I'm wondering how you guys would do using the rules as they are now, or if it is even possible...
I want to create a special unit similar to an honr guard that I am going to call The Ascended. They are, for the most part, going to be normal honor guard but I want them to be able to create Psychic "wings" that would function as either a jetpack of jump-pack. I could just give them a jetpack as is normally allowed, but they dont always have their wings as they are created by their psychic ability. The special rules section allows for "willpower" rolls (leadership tests) in order to make the special rules work but jetpacks/flying are not options. Wargear has some options but nothing to make it so the wings may or may not work. Should I just make them better by not even having to make the test and not bother with the fluff for them or am I missing an option to accomplish this somehow?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

forruner_mercy wrote:Lol, it is so easy to make OTT characters
I made a almost 400 Point character

Yea, but hopefully most people trying to use this and be reasonable.

Rocketmike wrote:Ok. Firstly, Love the updates, especially the beast section. But I also have some thoughts on it.

In the description on the left side it says "huge monsters" while the profile says "monstrous." Minor detail.

Now, When I first saw the beast section I thought to myself "PERFECT!" because I wanted to, in essence, create my chapter's own unique god/avatar. The Huge/Monstrous creature option looked to be my best bet but I quickly ran into a problem. You see, I was hoping the unit would end up being comparable to the eldar's avatar of Khaine or a melee focused wraithlord. Another comparison was a daemon prince from the chaos codex or even a dread-knight from GK. There just aren't enough options to create anything quite as strong and even if you tried with the given options the model would be a weaker, much more expensive version that far passes the 100 point limit. Options for ranged weapons might be nice for some people but personally I only care about the melee for my purposes and the ranged weapons might be an option by essentially adding a "rider" with the weapon, whether he is actually there or not.

It might be reasonable to put 2 wounds as the starting point for each of the beast sizes. I would also love to see an "Armored" option that gives a 3+ armor save (2+ would be pushing it) as well as some form of invulnerable save for the large and monstrous size creatures. As it is, by the time you are done decking out your huge creature it is going to get to the 100 pt limit very quickly and it wont be able to contend with anything of equal value.

Just some thoughts/requests. Still love all the great work!

Yes, the first part is a typing oversight which I will correct in the next version that includes the Psychic Powers section.

As for the Beast section, I actually didn't want to allow people to create really insane units (such as units on-par with Avatars or Greater Daemons), I wanted the units to feel more like trained beasts and less like the avatars of gods. To me, a high Weapon Skill represents a skilled finesse with a weapon and as such doesn't really befit a savage beast that can only fight savagely. Think of it this way: a trained warrior is like a Samurai, somebody who uses skill to overcome and kill their enemies, where as a beast is like a bar-room brawler with dangerous natural weaponry and usually superior strength and primitive but effective cunning.

So sadly the points limitation is there for a very good reason. I didn't want people creating 150-200 point beasts as I didn't feel they really fit and would prefer people created them as crude beasts of war rather than demigod-like beings.

If you're wanting to create something like a Dread Knight I'll see about introducing rules for Dread Knight-like exoskeletons.

Also, there is already an option for Invulnerable Saves for the Beasts section.

Leonid wrote:awesome rules!!
Cant wait for the unit creator!!)))

Already in there. Check the first page now for the updated PDF.

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:This looks awesome, but some of the "Before You Begin" rules seem a little odd. Specifically, the MotF and Land Raider restrictions and the prevention of Chapter Masters. Mind explaining?

Chapter Masters are removed because, in your own Chapter, the Chapter Master isn't a generic, faceless soldier, he's a special character. Masters of the Forge are, for all intents and purposes, Masters of the Forge, but just have a different name and no Master of the Armoury rule. Land Raiders were changed to reflect more recent Codex books where they have been removed from the Heavy Support sections of the chapters and placed instead as just Transports.

Rocketmike wrote:If that is the case however, the upgrade should probably be increased and include the orbital bombardment that a Chapter Master normally has though the orbital bombardment option is available if you make the character the Master of the Fleet.

I changed this out of necessity and simple interest of lore/fluff. To me, an Orbital Bombardment says Master of the Fleet (ability to call down orbital strikes from said fleet) where as Masters of the Chapter are more the brave, cunning, and wise leadership figures of the chapter who are able to command their forces with far greater efficiency than anyone else in the chapter. Hence the change.

AchillesFTW wrote:I like the idea of Hardened Body & Apothecary Sergeants. That right there is probably the best combination. Its like Plague Marines . . . for FREEE!

Though I do thoroughly enjoy this Chapter Creator since it allows to make really fun, balanced, and fluffy armies.

Squad of 5 Space Marines + Apothecary Sergeant = 100 points.

Squad of 5 Plague Marines = 130 points.

30 point difference is pretty significant, but not so much so when you consider the hindrances to certain movement options such as Run, downsides which don't plague Plague Marines (yes, bad pun). Plague Marines are also Fearless on top of that, so yes, you can look at it as if they were a cheaper squad of Plague Marines, but you'd have to take into consideration that they aren't Fearless and have movement hindrances. Not to mention Blight Grenades.

When you take that all into account, the points differences don't seem so distant anymore.

Marik - I think I'll actually be able to create a decent "avatar" using the basic hero profile with the appropriate upgrades and special rules and a unique enough weapon. I'll probably post what I come up with later. My only concern going this route with it is that it's going to be overly expensive.

Concerning the options on melee gear, I noticed a couple things possibly worth review.
Monstrous Attacks as an upgrade is 35 pts? Aren't the only upgrades for monstrous creatures in cc that it rolls an extra d6 for armor pen and ignores armor saves? If that's the case, it's kinda over priced and not needed as the options to do both are available elsewhere (and for only 20 pts total).

Question concerning the melee weapon Powerful upgrade... does the doubling of the user's strength in cc only apply against infantry and their variants or is it doubled against vehicles as well? As it reads, it's only to wound, which doesnt work on vehicles.

Thanks for the feedback and help! just trying to clarify some things and help work out potential bugs

Rocketmike wrote:Concerning the options on melee gear, I noticed a couple things possibly worth review.
Monstrous Attacks as an upgrade is 35 pts? Aren't the only upgrades for monstrous creatures in cc that it rolls an extra d6 for armor pen and ignores armor saves? If that's the case, it's kinda over priced and not needed as the options to do both are available elsewhere (and for only 20 pts total).

Question concerning the melee weapon Powerful upgrade... does the doubling of the user's strength in cc only apply against infantry and their variants or is it doubled against vehicles as well? As it reads, it's only to wound, which doesnt work on vehicles.

Thanks for the feedback and help! just trying to clarify some things and help work out potential bugs

Monstrous Creature: I'll have to check the rulebook. Could have sworn it did more than that.

Powerful: Yes, it also applies to vehicle penetration.

Rocketmike wrote:Ah, see, by scouts I had a "ranger" type character in mind. Not sure what to tell ya.

One thing I'm wondering how you guys would do using the rules as they are now, or if it is even possible...
I want to create a special unit similar to an honr guard that I am going to call The Ascended. They are, for the most part, going to be normal honor guard but I want them to be able to create Psychic "wings" that would function as either a jetpack of jump-pack. I could just give them a jetpack as is normally allowed, but they dont always have their wings as they are created by their psychic ability. The special rules section allows for "willpower" rolls (leadership tests) in order to make the special rules work but jetpacks/flying are not options. Wargear has some options but nothing to make it so the wings may or may not work. Should I just make them better by not even having to make the test and not bother with the fluff for them or am I missing an option to accomplish this somehow?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

forruner_mercy wrote:Lol, it is so easy to make OTT characters
I made a almost 400 Point character

Yea, but hopefully most people trying to use this and be reasonable.

Totally. I was just seeing how OOT I could get a character.
BTW, what is a normal cost for a Chapter Master and IC? Around 250-270 for the CM?

Oh god. Now I've read through the whole thing. It's beautiful.

However, I noticed that there's no availability for Land Speeders to be transport vehicles, like the LSS is. Maybe you could give the ability to make it avaliable to certain troops (choose from a list) at the expense of having to make it open-topped?

You'd have to say that only models in power armour, Artificer armour or Scout armour can take it, though: Terminators just wouldn't fit.

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:Oh god. Now I've read through the whole thing. It's beautiful.

However, I noticed that there's no availability for Land Speeders to be transport vehicles, like the LSS is. Maybe you could give the ability to make it avaliable to certain troops (choose from a list) at the expense of having to make it open-topped?

You'd have to say that only models in power armour, Artificer armour or Scout armour can take it, though: Terminators just wouldn't fit.

Glad all of you are liking it.

I'll definitely see about putting in Land Speeder Transports. I should really put together a To-Do List here now, hehe.

- Grammar corrections, clarifying certain rules/entries, points adjusting, etc.
- Custom Psychic Powers.
- Alternate Rules (systems using categories for balancing, etc).
- Transport Options for Land Speeders.
- Exoskeleton "Dread Knight" unit entry.
- Removing the limitation on Captains.

Oh and in between boughts of wrestling with trying to get this damn Psychic Powers section to work, I've started on my next project. What is it?

.
..
...

Codex: Iron Hands OR Codex: Black Templars

Which one would you guys like to see more? Rules for a chapter that should have gotten their own rules from the get-go OR updated rules for Black Templars to make them...well...not suck anymore (in comparison to the new books).

Iron Hands. Black Templars have a friggin' 'dex, and I'm a firm believer that Manus was the bestest.

Marik Law wrote:

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:Oh god. Now I've read through the whole thing. It's beautiful.

However, I noticed that there's no availability for Land Speeders to be transport vehicles, like the LSS is. Maybe you could give the ability to make it avaliable to certain troops (choose from a list) at the expense of having to make it open-topped?

You'd have to say that only models in power armour, Artificer armour or Scout armour can take it, though: Terminators just wouldn't fit.

Glad all of you are liking it.

I'll definitely see about putting in Land Speeder Transports. I should really put together a To-Do List here now, hehe.

- Grammar corrections, clarifying certain rules/entries, points adjusting, etc.
- Custom Psychic Powers.
- Alternate Rules (systems using categories for balancing, etc).
- Transport Options for Land Speeders.
- Exoskeleton "Dread Knight" unit entry.
- Removing the limitation on Captains.

Oh and in between boughts of wrestling with trying to get this damn Psychic Powers section to work, I've started on my next project. What is it?

.
..
...

Codex: Iron Hands OR Codex: Black Templars

Which one would you guys like to see more? Rules for a chapter that should have gotten their own rules from the get-go OR updated rules for Black Templars to make them...well...not suck anymore (in comparison to the new books).

add raven guard too
Also Storm Ravens need a spotlight too.

IRON

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANDS

Complete with a MotF with Servo-Arm and Conversion Beamer. As for the fluff, make him rumored to be entirely mechanical.

Anyway, the Dreadknight sounds good. Do you think you might be able to work in the Contemptor Dreadnought? (3 max for regular Dreads, 1 only for Dreadheros.)

Oh, and the Stormraven. Obviously.

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:IRON

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANDS

Complete with a MotF with Servo-Arm and Conversion Beamer. As for the fluff, make him rumored to be entirely mechanical.

Anyway, the Dreadknight sounds good. Do you think you might be able to work in the Contemptor Dreadnought? (3 max for regular Dreads, 1 only for Dreadheros.)

Oh, and the Stormraven. Obviously.

Not sure about the Contemptor as it's really just a modified Dreadnought, but I'll see what I can do. As for Iron Hands, I've been sneaky. You can turn most any Dreadnought in an Iron Hands codex army into a Contemptor.

Just stick in the FW rules, maybe? Perhaps with some stat modding abilities.

E1: A Contents page might be handy, too

E2: ...AAAAAND I've just realized that a LS containing Devastators would be an absolute monster. It could fly around and shoot people with lascannons!
You should have the ability to give transports Assault Vehicle (Land Speeder with Assault Squads, anyone?).
And allow me to suggest Land Speeder Thunder and Land Speeder Lightning for example Devastator and Assault-carrying Speeders.

I want a heavy Thunderhawk such as the republic gunship that i use rofl.

Landspeeders with trqansport should be limited to scouts or models with +4 up armour. Power armour sounds like it's too big to fit on a landspeeder.

Oh, and whoever said landspeeders with devestators could move and shoot lascannons, lascannons are still heavy weapons. If the transport moves, the troops inside count as moving too if I'm correct. It wouldn't be as devastating as one would think anymore. A rhino with two troopers inside with lascannons could provide better armour than a landspeeder with the same.

Haven't read through it yet, but I'm pretty excited about having a look. First thing I noticed though - last paragraph on the first page, you've used 'suggestives' twice when I think you mean 'suggestions'

Thought on suggested chapter- the Relictors. Mainly, the presence of Daemonblades.

this is quite the help
i try to use my own chapter the blood watchmen who are lead by a council of eight
the lord watchman/previous chapter master now dead in my back ground for them but i still use him
brother levitas/current chapter master/was the chapter champion before hand
lord librarian tempest/cheif librarian/master of the librarium
lord reclusiarch zeal/head Chaplin/master of sanctury
captain protherian /captain of the daemon knights /daemon hunter/master of the requits
captain saun /captain of the archangels /assault vetran company/master of the arsenel
philatetes the dread lord/leads the wolve pack/basicly space wolf company/master of the fleet
forge lord roberto/leader of the forge guardians/devistator company/master of the forge
and un-uasaly the eigth (note that the lord watchman and levitas were the same rank after the lord watchman died)
lord inquisitor provas/though he is an inquisitor he started as a marine and was presented this tital by the inquisition (he is a captain in all respects) dose not have a company/ master of the watch

thelordwatchman wrote:this is quite the help
lord inquisitor provas/though he is an inquisitor he started as a marine and was presented this tital by the inquisition (he is a captain in all respects) dose not have a company/ master of the watch

Do you know if there is any precedent for this in 40k fluff? I've often considered making a character who began as a Space Marine but for one reason or another became an Inquisitor, or an Inquisitor who requisitioned a Marine into his service as an acolyte but then the Marine himself became an Inquisitor when his leader was killed. So far as I know it's unheard of though. doesn't mean that it cant/shouldn't be done, but I like for my lore to fit in pretty well.

he became an inquisitor in a campaign i took part in due to the set rule that the imperials needed one and he got executed by the skull tacker then provas took command of the entire campaign (the person using the inquisitor lost his whole army in the end of the results of that one game so he gave me command) the idea is due to this the inquisition knew that they could not get another to the campaign in time and they offered him the position out of his loyalty to the imperium when he was out numbed by blood letters and the skull taker and still won the combat without tacking a wound

I kinda wanna see a chapter crusader special rule :(

I don't know how you intend to make these custom psychic powers, might I suggest the following modifier, if it would fit:
Fuelled by death: Psychic shooting attacks only. For every friendly OR enemy model (choose one) killed in the previous enemy or friendly turn, respectively, within 24" of the librarian, the strength, AP or number of shots fired in the attack increases by one.

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:I don't know how you intend to make these custom psychic powers,

Psychic Powers will be balanced in the same way units are balanced, via points. Basically I have it that you have a certain amount of points you can spend on the entirety of your chapter's Psychic Powers with each Psychic Power having a cap of 40 points. With the overall cap (which I'm still tweaking) you can only have about half or less of your psychic powers be 40 point ones, the rest are made up of 10 to 20 point powers.

Sounds good. Looking forward to seeing it!

Sounds good. But would that system allow for the modifier I suggested? (Not trying to force it on you, just curious.)

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:Sounds good. But would that system allow for the modifier I suggested? (Not trying to force it on you, just curious.)

You can do things very similar, if not identical, to that. It just may be worded or structured differently.

Excellent.

Awesome, this will really help with some future projects! +1