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Brother Coa wrote:It's easy to not believe something that goes against your arguments and you are using every trick in the book to get it retconed.... (don't lie ).

To get what retconned? What are you talking about? Are you daft, or trolling me? You made the claim that codices have a bias for their factions and as such are unreliable, I pointed that the rulebook is easily capable of the same bias.

I will make it simple: I can't prove it because there is no source for this. There is also no source for your claim so I mught be right after all. Sometimes you must have faith ( but you are Necron so... that's questionable ).

If there is no source for it don't make the claim. Surely you can comprehend something as basic as that?

Ok I am done here.... ( nothing in this universe is numberless, ask Hawking ). And Eldar do lose when that is going to their profit, Space Marines did raid Commoragh - Dark Eldar should then do the same to Terra since there is no source to contradict that small strike force can infiltrate a planet. And Grey Knights didn't lost - that sob escaped.

Nice, dodging the context. Good job, real proper debating right thar. I'm not saying they are literally infinite in number, only that they are so impossible to kill (A Wraithcannon probably would kill one for good though) that their numbers can't be diminished.

You're very dense, you know that? The Space Marines fought the Dark Eldar for a prolonged period of time, and only left when they could. Terra is almost undoubtedly the most well-fortified planet in the galaxy, the Dark Eldar would be annihilated within moments.

Mordrak was the only Grey Knight to survive. That's not a "win." The Red Corsairs destroyed Mortain.

Proff of this claim?

Was a typo, meant to say they ate more than one.

You are trolling me from the beginning don't you
I am done here, from this point on I will not explain anything to you. I will just post and you try to get it.
You don't deserve any explanation from me at all, about anything.

Try to concede arguments with more dignity in the future.

No living being would come close to the Emperor, in terms of psychic might.

Ronin-Sage wrote:No living being would come close to the Emperor, in terms of psychic might.

True, aldo some people would suggest that Eldarad was more powerful. Because nowhere is stated that the Emperor is the "most powerful psyker ever" but "most powerful Human psyker ever". And Eldar fans are suing that to low the Emperor every time...

Eldrad was obviously not as powerful as the Emperor.

If he were, he would have killed Fulgrim himself.

Void__Dragon wrote:Eldrad was obviously not as powerful as the Emperor.

If he were, he would have killed Fulgrim himself.

Unless he wanted Fulgrim to survive so there would be a more heretics to divide the imperium which does have this nasty anti xenos policy.

FlammingGaunt wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:Eldrad was obviously not as powerful as the Emperor.

If he were, he would have killed Fulgrim himself.

Unless he wanted Fulgrim to survive so there would be a more heretics to divide the imperium which does have this nasty anti xenos policy.

but i think the eldar would rather be hated than have more servants to the chaos gods, they can hide from the imperiam in the webway

FlammingGaunt wrote:Unless he wanted Fulgrim to survive so there would be a more heretics to divide the imperium which does have this nasty anti xenos policy.

I'm pretty sure they would prefer the Imperium stay strong, rather than Chaos grow in power. Which is what happened.

The emperor is Sigmar, you know it, I know it, and GW knows it, they are just hiding from the truth.
Since Sigmar is = one of the chaos gods if you include all of his human follower strength, so is the Emperor.
The hivemind is also = to the emperor, because the Emperor is the willpower of the human race incarnate, as the Hivemind is the Willpower of the Tyranid race incarnate.
Gork and Mork together fit the same bill, as does the Eldar god of the dead (once they are all dead of course)
Tau are atheists
The C'tan arent pyskers
...and thats about it.
The Emperor can grow and change, putting him above the Chaos Gods, with the same going for all of the other racial deities
Magnus the Red would get F***ed up by any of the others mentioned.

The Chaos gods constantly grow and change, especially Tzeentch. Sigmar was originally a primarch, but that's been retconned. The Emperor isn't the willpower of humanity, he's a powerful psyker.

The Emperor was saved by Horus from some Orkz.

So a common Ork could kill the Big E.


Although, the final battle depicts both Horus and the Big E's powers at uber levels, perhaps they were only level 6 on a 10 scale, but it seemed epic because they were the only two fighting. In otherwords, an ork warboss on the ship might of been more powerful then both.

Hard to judge what's most beefy in 40K. I'd say top contenders are the C'Tan, Swarmlord, and Greater Daemons (require armies to bring down in some cases)

Edit: Also, th Big E's suicide doomsday blast might of made him the most powerful entity alive for a split second or perhaps it was merely a blip... I'd like to think it raised his power levels to insane amounts before killing him.. but again hard to judge.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:The Emperor was saved by Horus from some Orkz.

So a common Ork could kill the Big E.


Although, the final battle depicts both Horus and the Big E's powers at uber levels, perhaps they were only level 6 on a 10 scale, but it seemed epic because they were the only two fighting. In otherwords, an ork warboss on the ship might of been more powerful then both.

Hard to judge what's most beefy in 40K. I'd say top contenders are the C'Tan, Swarmlord, and Greater Daemons (require armies to bring down in some cases)

Edit: Also, th Big E's suicide doomsday blast might of made him the most powerful entity alive for a split second or perhaps it was merely a blip... I'd like to think it raised his power levels to insane amounts before killing him.. but again hard to judge.

... Are you implying the Swarmlord is not only on the level of the C'tan and Greater Daemons, but also stronger than Horus and the Emperor?

A C'tan at full power would destroy a million Swarmlords, at once. When the Swarmlord is angry, Marneus Calgar becomes dismembered. When a C'tan gets angry, a solar system is swallowed by a black hole. Even in the Nightbringer's weakened state, it's still completely capable of devouring the energy of a star.

Greater Daemons also vary. You might be able to argue that the Swarmlord is above the average Bloodthirster (Who can hamsting a Carnifex with a single blow), maybe, but An'ggrath? Doubtful. On another note, Sanguinius broke Ka'Bhanda's back, Ka'Bhanda being the strongest Bloodthirster. Horus when empowered by Chaos crushed him. The Emperor defeated Horus, though they were closer in power than common opinion says.

A Warlord "struggled" to strangle the Emperor, that does not imply it was succeeding.

Magnus the Red could destroy Titans, personally, under his own power, utilising his massive psychic strength. The Emperor was even stronger than Magnus in that regard.

The contenders for most powerful beings in 40k are IMO between the Emperor, the Chaos Gods, the C'tan, and Gork and Mork. Cegorach perhaps as well. Khaine when he was complete and at full strength was pretty powerful too.

Though it depends on context. The C'tan are virtually supreme when at full power in the Materium, but have no power over the Warp. The reverse is largely true for the Chaos Gods, though the Chaos Gods seem to be able to affect a portion of the Materium where the veil has been weakened or destroyed, and similarly the C'tan have a plan to sever the Materium for the Warp entirely using their godlike powers. The Emperor in turn was powerful in the Materium, but even stronger in the Warp.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:The Emperor was saved by Horus from some Orkz.

So a common Ork could kill the Big E.

"Common Ork" as in the greatest Warboss humanity has ever seen, making Ghaz look like a Grot in comparison? Killed during the turning point of the Crusade?


Seriously, imagine the Waaagh! energy generated by the Orks in that Waaagh!. I don't find it too implausible that such an immense power would "block" the Emperor's own powers, even if only partially.

Void__Dragon wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:The Emperor was saved by Horus from some Orkz.

So a common Ork could kill the Big E.


Although, the final battle depicts both Horus and the Big E's powers at uber levels, perhaps they were only level 6 on a 10 scale, but it seemed epic because they were the only two fighting. In otherwords, an ork warboss on the ship might of been more powerful then both.

Hard to judge what's most beefy in 40K. I'd say top contenders are the C'Tan, Swarmlord, and Greater Daemons (require armies to bring down in some cases)

Edit: Also, th Big E's suicide doomsday blast might of made him the most powerful entity alive for a split second or perhaps it was merely a blip... I'd like to think it raised his power levels to insane amounts before killing him.. but again hard to judge.

... Are you implying the Swarmlord is not only on the level of the C'tan and Greater Daemons, but also stronger than Horus and the Emperor?

A C'tan at full power would destroy a million Swarmlords, at once. When the Swarmlord is angry, Marneus Calgar becomes dismembered. When a C'tan gets angry, a solar system is swallowed by a black hole. Even in the Nightbringer's weakened state, it's still completely capable of devouring the energy of a star.

Greater Daemons also vary. You might be able to argue that the Swarmlord is above the average Bloodthirster (Who can hamsting a Carnifex with a single blow), maybe, but An'ggrath? Doubtful. On another note, Sanguinius broke Ka'Bhanda's back, Ka'Bhanda being the strongest Bloodthirster. Horus when empowered by Chaos crushed him. The Emperor defeated Horus, though they were closer in power than common opinion says.

A Warlord "struggled" to strangle the Emperor, that does not imply it was succeeding.

Magnus the Red could destroy Titans, personally, under his own power, utilising his massive psychic strength. The Emperor was even stronger than Magnus in that regard.

The contenders for most powerful beings in 40k are IMO between the Emperor, the Chaos Gods, the C'tan, and Gork and Mork. Cegorach perhaps as well. Khaine when he was complete and at full strength was pretty powerful too.

Though it depends on context. The C'tan are virtually supreme when at full power in the Materium, but have no power over the Warp. The reverse is largely true for the Chaos Gods, though the Chaos Gods seem to be able to affect a portion of the Materium where the veil has been weakened or destroyed, and similarly the C'tan have a plan to sever the Materium for the Warp entirely using their godlike powers. The Emperor in turn was powerful in the Materium, but even stronger in the Warp.

This is where it gets hard to really tell...

Sang did break Ka'Bandahs back, but in the fight prior he had his Primarch legs broken and got knocked the f*** out. Ka"Bandah could have easily ripped his tiny little head off too while he was limp on the ground.

C'Tan are an iffy subject, we need more fluff on these guys. What we do know is that they have the power to eat a frickin star. But they view the warp as something of a threat. So how would a tiny mortal stand up to them if he could channel a tsunami of warp energy? Not sure.

Everything has its highs and lows in terms of how sweet or worthless it is, not really sure how the Big E and Horus stacked up because there are way too many conflicting stories of power. I'd assume with his doomsday blast the Big E was about as lethal a threat in that moment as the galaxy could produce - excluding the birth of Slaanesh, which holds the records for most dead the fastest (countless billions in mere seconds)

As for a common ork almost waxin the Emperor, yeah, even warbosses are nothing more then spores that grew into boyz that turned into nobs that became bosses. So a common ork almost waxed him. Granted it wasn't a boy, but it was just an ork no less. Perhaps the strongest or perhaps not even close, given we haven't seen every ork warboss.

If Lexicanum is right in that regard ( perhaps someone can check their sources? I lack the Inquisition sourcebook ) then an Alpha Plus psyker can duplicate all the feats that the false carriongod
and his sons did. From snaping titans in half ( which is in fact much more than Magnus managed to do to the Eldar titan ) to controling entire cities with his mind ( can't be less hard than merely forcing
a spacemarine legion to kneel ).

KingDeath wrote:If Lexicanum is right in that regard ( perhaps someone can check their sources? I lack the Inquisition sourcebook ) then an Alpha Plus psyker can duplicate all the feats that the God Emepror of Mankind.
and his sons did. From snaping titans in half ( which is in fact much more than Magnus managed to do to the Eldar titan ) to controling entire cities with his mind ( can't be less hard than merely forcing
a spacemarine legion to kneel ).

I said DO NOT spread HERESY!!!

and Alpha lever psykers are very rare. But even as powerful as they are they can't even come close to the Emperor and his sons ( remember that Emperor at his full power OBLITERATED HORUS SOUL IN SINGLE BLOW. None being in the universe have that kind of power ), you can see that by Golen Throne itself. Act's of Faith comes directly from him, at the same time all over the galaxy. And it is believed that he safeguard all Human souls that go to the War ( except those who sold them to CHaos - idiots ) and to power the Astronomicon ( who have range of 50.000 LY, that's half of the Milky Way galaxy ).

Brother Coa wrote:

KingDeath wrote:If Lexicanum is right in that regard ( perhaps someone can check their sources? I lack the Inquisition sourcebook ) then an Alpha Plus psyker can duplicate all the feats that the God Emepror of Mankind.
and his sons did. From snaping titans in half ( which is in fact much more than Magnus managed to do to the Eldar titan ) to controling entire cities with his mind ( can't be less hard than merely forcing
a spacemarine legion to kneel ).

I said DO NOT spread HERESY!!!

and Alpha lever psykers are very rare. But even as powerful as they are they can't even come close to the Emperor and his sons ( remember that Emperor at his full power OBLITERATED HORUS SOUL IN SINGLE BLOW. None being in the universe have that kind of power ), you can see that by Golen Throne itself. Act's of Faith comes directly from him, at the same time all over the galaxy. And it is believed that he safeguard all Human souls that go to the War ( except those who sold them to CHaos - idiots ) and to power the Astronomicon ( who have range of 50.000 LY, that's half of the Milky Way galaxy ).

Heresy lies in the eye of the beholder, lickspittle servant to a withering corpse
Note that i am not speaking of "mere" alpha level psykers but the even more powerful and rare alpha plus variant. Sadly i lack any direct sources for them but if Lexi is right then the alpha plus psykers exhibit the same powers and abilites that we have seen from the emprah and his sons. Where acts of faith come from is unknown, the faithful claim that it is their false emperor who causes them but i tell you that it is great Tzeentch who furthers his own mad and contradictory shemes with them
Obliterating Horus's soul was a nice feat, but not unusual. Eisenhorn completely destroyed a daemon ( both in realspace and in the warp ) and i see no reason why a much more powerful alpha plus psyker shouldn't be able to destroy a primarch's soul.
That the corpsegod saveguards human souls is a simple belief, sadly there are few people who return from death to answer that question ( perhaps Saint Drusus would have been able to to say something about it...one wonders if the imperial dogs would have liked what he would have had to say in that regard ).
The Astronomican is powered by thousands of psykers, ferried to terra by the black ships. Whatever is left of the false emperor ( and we all know that in truth the gods already gnaw on his withered soul ) is merely said to direct that power, still an impressive feat.

KingDeath wrote:
Heresy lies in the eye of the beholder, lickspittle servant to a withering corpse
Note that i am not speaking of "mere" alpha level psykers but the even more powerful and rare alpha plus variant. Sadly i lack any direct sources for them but if Lexi is right then the alpha plus psykers exhibit the same powers and abilites that we have seen from the emprah and his sons. Where acts of faith come from is unknown, the faithful claim that it is their false emperor who causes them but i tell you that it is great Tzeentch who furthers his own mad and contradictory shemes with them
Obliterating Horus's soul was a nice feat, but not unusual. Eisenhorn completely destroyed a daemon ( both in realspace and in the warp ) and i see no reason why a much more powerful alpha plus psyker shouldn't be able to destroy a primarch's soul.
That the corpsegod saveguards human souls is a simple belief, sadly there are few people who return from death to answer that question ( perhaps Saint Drusus would have been able to to say something about it...one wonders if the imperial dogs would have liked what he would have had to say in that regard ).
The Astronomican is powered by thousands of psykers, ferried to terra by the black ships. Whatever is left of the false emperor ( and we all know that in truth the gods already gnaw on his withered soul ) is merely said to direct that power, still an impressive feat.

I think that Magnus and the Emperor are a level above Alpha plus, if that's possible. Most of the other primarchs would probably have been Beta.

Heresy's fun, Coa. You get to do all kinds of fun things like rape, pillage, kill, maim, burn, shout 'DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR' and criticise people for driving METAL BAWXES!

Brother Coa wrote:

Ronin-Sage wrote:No living being would come close to the Emperor, in terms of psychic might.

True, aldo some people would suggest that Eldarad was more powerful. Because nowhere is stated that the Emperor is the "most powerful psyker ever" but "most powerful Human psyker ever". And Eldar fans are suing that to low the Emperor every time...

Because it's true.

The burden of proof is on the Imperial side to show proof that the Emperor is the most powerful psyker of all time. I think his power is nothing compared to the hive mind which directs the Tyranid hive fleets across multiple galaxies (making the Astronomicon look weak in comparison), making those same hive fleets adapt as needed to deal with certain battle tactics and abilities of the races they are trying to eat. And to be fair, the Eldar do call him a weakling seer on many occasions. On a few occasions Gork and Mork laugh him off as being just a nuisance and there is even fluff that says the Emperor shows fear because Gork and Mork decided to ignore his warnings in the Warp.

Even from the Imperiums own propoganda he is listed as the most powerful HUMAN....thats it...not the most powerful psyker.

I took you serious until I read that the Emperor fear Ork Gods...
Then I rest my case...
HE is the most powerful Human psyker in the galaxy. Hive Mind only Plantagenet is to be able to mind-control every servant from spore mine to Bio-Titan. Emperor didn't want that for Humanity, he wanted for all of us to be individuals...

I don't recall him showing fear from the Ork Gods ignoreing his baleful warning.

I imagine him being more

"get off my lawn you pair of reprobates!"

and them being a bit :

"zog off old man! Come and make us, when you get off Life Support!"

I still think Gork and Mork could take him, but there's not much supporting evidence either way, as they have little interest in each other directly.

This hasn't been ret-conned so you asked for it. Here it is. Official fluff from Titan Legions. It's in the Codex Titanicus page 68.

And I quote:

"Gork and Mork stirred and a wave of fear passed through the warp. Suicide and incidence of violent crime climbed steeply. On Icolbar an Astropath screamed and threw himself from the balcony of a starscraper apartment, yelling that his people were doomed. On the Craftworld Hope Of Other Days, an Eldar philosopher stopped listening to the atonal music of his waterchimes and began composing his death-haiku, feeling his life had been justified. On distant Earth, a living corpse in a golden throne opened eyes that held fear for the first time in centuries".

There ya go Coa..he does fear them..It's in the fluff and it hasn't been ret conned.

Thanks for that

It's been above a decade since i've played Titan Legions, and i'd forgotten

Roadkill Zombie wrote: On distant Earth, a living corpse in a golden throne opened eyes that held fear for the first time in centuries".

Aha, but in other sources the Emperor lost an eye! So there aren't two to open. Naw, I kid, but that's not necessarily a fear for himself; it could easily be a fear for the countless Humans that will die regardless of whether or not the Imperium falls. Besides, wasn't that passage in explanation to the creation of the Gargants?


Also, whether or not the Hive Mind is an entity is still up for grabs in my opinion. If it directly controlled every organism, the Swarmlord wouldn't be able to do what it does.

Durza wrote:I think that Magnus and the Emperor are a level above Alpha plus, if that's possible.

It's not possible, because Alpha Plus is literally a designation for "off the scale" above the Alpha level. There are no higher Imperial Assignment power levels although varying degrees of psychic power at Alpha+ exist.

Brother Coa wrote:I took you serious until I read that the Emperor fear Ork Gods...
Then I rest my case...
HE is the most powerful Human psyker in the galaxy. Hive Mind only Plantagenet is to be able to mind-control every servant from spore mine to Bio-Titan. Emperor didn't want that for Humanity, he wanted for all of us to be individuals...

In a few seconds, Slaanesh took a deep breathe in real space and killed the endless billions of the Eldar Empire.

No offense to the big E, but Chaos Gods take more violent yawns then him, when he is at full power no less.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote: On distant Earth, a living corpse in a golden throne opened eyes that held fear for the first time in centuries".

Aha, but in other sources the Emperor lost an eye! So there aren't two to open. Naw, I kid, but that's not necessarily a fear for himself; it could easily be a fear for the countless Humans that will die regardless of whether or not the Imperium falls. Besides, wasn't that passage in explanation to the creation of the Gargants?


Also, whether or not the Hive Mind is an entity is still up for grabs in my opinion. If it directly controlled every organism, the Swarmlord wouldn't be able to do what it does.

Yeah, the entire story is about the creation of gargants but that bit is about Gork and Mork awakening in the warp and the Emperor pissing himself because he realized they had awoken.

The hive mind doesn't control every single organism. Only the ones it wants to. It does leave some to think for themselves.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:This hasn't been ret-conned so you asked for it. Here it is. Official fluff from Titan Legions. It's in the Codex Titanicus page 68.

And I quote:

"Gork and Mork stirred and a wave of fear passed through the warp. Suicide and incidence of violent crime climbed steeply. On Icolbar an Astropath screamed and threw himself from the balcony of a starscraper apartment, yelling that his people were doomed. On the Craftworld Hope Of Other Days, an Eldar philosopher stopped listening to the atonal music of his waterchimes and began composing his death-haiku, feeling his life had been justified. On distant Earth, a living corpse in a golden throne opened eyes that held fear for the first time in centuries".

There ya go Coa..he does fear them..It's in the fluff and it hasn't been ret conned.

I thought that his eyes vanished centuries ago...this can't stand because Emperor doesn't have eyes.
And can I see that? Because I can't find it anywhere on the net + 2'nd edition only have 17 pages and there is nowere mention of this...

It's from the time when he still had eyes. When the Orks first created Gargants and the emperors eyes hadn't completely rotted out of his head yet.

And it isn't from 2nd edition, it's from Titan Legions...an Epic game...but it's still a part of the background of 40k as the beginnings to that story are in the current Ork codex.

Well I have downloaded Codex: Titanicus 2'nd edition from 1994 ( 1'st edition doesn't count sice it is older and every new codex replace older fluff ) and I didn't found that sentence, meaning that you have provided it from 1'st edition codex from 1989. I am sorry but that fluff is not valid anymore because 2'nd edition codex replace it.

Nice try dough


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But there was one interesting sentence there..."Ork communities tend to be scatter throughout the universe." Does that means that Ork have reached other galaxies?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:It's from the time when he still had eyes. When the Orks first created Gargants and the emperors eyes hadn't completely rotted out of his head yet.

Do not lie, the text you provided clearly say: "living corpse on throne". Meaning it's from the 41'st millennium. And....

And it isn't from 2nd edition, it's from Titan Legions...an Epic game...but it's still a part of the background of 40k as the beginnings to that story are in the current Ork codex.

because it's from the 1'st edition fluff, and we have 2'nd edition fluff the 2'nd edition fluff replace 1'st edition fluff and there you go - this sentence is not valid anymore.